irclog2html for #brlcad on 20060101

02:59.22pra5adhappy new year
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16:17.50``Erik*yawn*
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23:17.01*** topic/#brlcad is http://brlcad.org/ || BRL-CAD is now Free Software! || 7.6.6 to be released by the 15th!
23:18.01*** join/#brlcad ibot (i=ibot@pdpc/supporter/active/TimRiker/bot/apt)
23:18.01*** topic/#brlcad is http://brlcad.org/ || BRL-CAD is now Free Software! || 7.6.6 to be released by the 15th!
Jeff Waugh - find it at freshmeat.net! Modified by Tim Riker to work with blootbot logs, split per channel, etc. irclog2html for #brlcad on 20060102

irclog2html for #brlcad on 20060102

00:34.04*** join/#brlcad Maloeran (n=alexis@modemcable065.3-83-70.mc.videotron.ca)
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03:45.54pra5adpi is one weird movie
06:19.26brlcadheh
06:19.46brlcada bit artsy but fun
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08:21.42``Erik<PROTECTED>
10:34.44pra5ad*yawn*
16:45.30``ErikI concur
18:17.16CIA-5BRL-CAD: 03erikgreenwald * 10brlcad/configure.ac: add searches for itcl32 and itk32, as FreeBSD removes the dot
19:59.11clock_brlcad: hi
19:59.34brlcadhowdy clock_
20:00.16clock_friday I smashed my head into ground on snowboard :D
20:01.05brlcadexcellent
20:01.20clock_snowboarding is a sport very demanding on brain :)
20:02.12brlcadheh
20:15.18``Erikiwidgets scan sucks ass
20:16.19brlcadscan?
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20:24.26brlcadif you mean the iwidgets test, it was written but never tested
20:28.20``Erikyeah, heh
20:29.53brlcadand the same will happen for the blt and tkImg tests ;)
20:32.26``Erik'sok, I'm not going that far
20:32.44``Eriktrying to get system itcl/itk working, was hoping to get iwidgets, too, but *shrug* I'm too lazy right now
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Jeff Waugh - find it at freshmeat.net! Modified by Tim Riker to work with blootbot logs, split per channel, etc. irclog2html for #brlcad on 20060103

irclog2html for #brlcad on 20060103

02:29.20*** join/#brlcad mahesh (n=mahesh@12-217-228-235.client.mchsi.com)
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21:06.35pierHi brlcad
21:30.57brlcadhowdy
21:47.42pierhi..
21:48.01pierI am having a look at the g-dxf.c code
21:48.34pierand wondering where to look for the db_walk_tree function source
21:49.38brlcadeep, you hopefully don't need to follow db_walk_tree beyone understanding that it walks the database geometry tree
21:49.49brlcadregardless, it's in src/librt/db_tree.c
21:50.33brlcadparallel tree walker
21:51.16pierlooks like this function does a lot of very important things
21:52.14pierDoes it brows the input file pointed by dbip?
21:53.13brlcadit does
21:54.11brlcadit walks through all the geometry in a directory
21:54.32brlcadby itself, that is all that it does
21:54.55brlcadwhat makes it useful, though, is that you provide it function pointers
21:55.43piernmg_booltree etc?
21:55.44brlcadthose callback functions are called when various geometry are encountered
21:58.03pierso these functions get out triangles from the shapes in the db tree?
21:58.46brlcadwhat are you looking at specifically?
21:59.15brlcadmore than likely if db_walk_tree is being used with nmg evaluation, then yes.. the geometry is being extracted as triangles
21:59.50pierI was just trying to work out the way the code works but the deeper I go the harder it gets
22:01.36pierin order to learn something more about  the way you get the shell surface from a boolean combination of solid shapes
22:01.42brlcadyou're starting with a pretty complicated converter to begin with
22:02.22brlcadall the nmg_* routines basically do the "get the shell surface from a boolean combination of solid shapes"
22:02.25pier... positive..
22:03.36brlcadso you presumably were looking at:
22:03.40brlcad<PROTECTED>
22:03.40brlcad<PROTECTED>
22:03.40brlcad<PROTECTED>
22:03.40brlcad<PROTECTED>
22:03.40brlcad<PROTECTED>
22:03.42brlcad<PROTECTED>
22:03.44brlcad<PROTECTED>
22:03.49pieryes
22:04.25brlcadwhen you open a geometry database, you're create a directory of the contents
22:04.37brlcadthat eventually gets you the dbip
22:04.56pierok
22:05.09pierI get it
22:05.16brlcadthe db_walk_tree function there has two callbacks
22:05.39brlcadwhild it's walking the directory, it encounters combinations/regions and primitives
22:05.48brlcadthe primitives are "leaf nodes"
22:06.09piergo on please
22:06.11brlcadwhen it finds a combination/region, db_walk_tree() calls do_region_end()
22:06.25brlcadwhen it finds a primitive, it calls nmg_booltree_leaf_tess()
22:07.41brlcadnmg_booltree_leaf_tess() is provided by a library and basically tesselates the object into triangles
22:07.54pierok
22:08.05brlcaddo_region_end() is presumably a function in the dxf converter that puts it all together
22:11.21pierI pondered your idea about getting plan views from a raycastin algorithm and I was trying to understand
22:12.36pierthe dxf outputting code to see if that aim could have been achieved by modifying the g-dxf code
22:14.25brlcadi thought about that a little bit more as well, the route I'd think about to get a non-discretized answer would require adding a routine to all the primitives
22:15.39brlcade.g. for the sphere primitive, there already exists a routine to evaluate/get the implicit for (the _shot() routine) and a polygonal explicit form (the _tess() routine)
22:15.45pierthat somewhere finds the coordinates of all the objects in the db whose manipoulation I wouldn't  like to get involved with
22:16.33pierok but I got stuck when it comes to the hidden line removal
22:16.53brlcadif one added a _brep() routine or somesuch that returned the brep form, you could then rather easily directly extract exact spline projections
22:19.17piersay I got a pipe
22:20.11brlcadyou mean a cylinder?
22:20.25pierwhich can be thought of as a union rcc1 (with R) - rcc2 (r<R)
22:20.58pierin a g file I ould retrieve the geometrical data of both
22:20.59brlcadah, so an actual hollow pipe, got it
22:21.04pieryes
22:21.44pierrcc1 (lenght L) rcc2 (l>L)
22:22.33pierI could work out the maximum dimensions of the object
22:22.56pierXmax Ymax Xmin Ymin to get a view port
22:23.41pierfrom whose points shoot perpendicoular rays
22:24.15pieram I on the right way?
22:25.34brlcadfor a discretized method, sure
22:25.55piermmm
22:26.05pierotherwise
22:27.36pierfor a shape one should consider the edges and project them on a plane
22:28.02brlcadright
22:28.35brlcadthat's the method i'm referring to, it's just a matter of how to "get the edge"
22:28.39pierin the case of a cylinder two ellipses joined by two lines tangent to botw of them
22:29.18brlcadyou can get a discretized edge from ratracing (a pretty good one at that, but discretized nonetheless) and respline
22:30.24brlcadfor non-discretized splines, you can get the edges/outlines etc .. but that's where I said that it'll require modifying the primitives themselves since there currently aren't routines to do this
22:31.01brlcadthe first is more simple (and could even be tacked into g-dxf or wherever, but the latter is a "better" solution from a numerical standpoint
22:32.11pierfor the sigle shapes (primitives) the projection shouldn't be hard as long as they are not concave
22:33.43brlcadsome primitives will be very hard
22:33.46brlcadsome not so hard
22:33.49brlcadat all
22:34.06pieryes the ellipsoid for instance
22:34.49brlcadthe only hard part will be implementing the boolean evaluation
22:35.33brlcadwe have booleans on implicits and triangles, but not brep splines
22:35.48brlcadeven for generalized polygons
22:35.48pieryes
22:36.17brlcadit's more the amount of time/effort involved
22:37.05brlcadi'd gather it'd be a generous month or so to get splines in an rtedge fashion inside g-dxf
22:37.37brlcad6+ months to get full brep support, maybe 2 or 3 for minimal
22:37.48``ErikMEER ME
22:37.50brlcadand that's a lot of math
22:37.50``ErikBEER
22:37.58brlcad~beer ``Erik
22:37.59ibotACTION deftly decants a fine Jever for ``Erik
22:38.06``Erikheh, yelling typo's kinda spoiles the effect
22:38.15piermaybe for one who knows exactly what to do and where put hands
22:38.24brlcadyet conveniently still works when it's related to alcohol
22:38.37``Erikwish I had me some of that
22:38.43``Erikbut, alas, I'm not allowed yet
22:38.54brlcadpier: that was factored in somewhat :)
22:39.04pier:)
22:39.40pierwas thinking about matrix rotation to get ellipsoid projection on a plane but not sure
22:41.52pierok I'll think it over... going to bed now. Have a nice day
22:42.04brlcadnot so hard if you have brep
22:42.24brlcadit all ends up being transformations on the splines like how triangles get transformed
22:47.06pierput enough meat on the fire for me... risk going to get clogged up :) bye
22:48.15brlcadheh, cya
22:48.56*** part/#brlcad pier (n=pier@151.56.220.10)
23:48.31``Erikso how's the new gui going?
23:51.44brlcadno decent progress in dec
Jeff Waugh - find it at freshmeat.net! Modified by Tim Riker to work with blootbot logs, split per channel, etc. irclog2html for #brlcad on 20060104

irclog2html for #brlcad on 20060104

01:29.23*** join/#brlcad tegtmeye (n=tegtmeye@pool-70-17-225-27.balt.east.verizon.net)
01:32.40``Erikoi, mike
01:32.54tegtmeyeyo!
01:33.20tegtmeyeeh? get a new laptop?
01:33.28``Erikno
01:33.31``Erikthe old 1.25ghz one
01:33.32``Erikheh
01:33.46``ErikI just ripped a cd to mp3
01:35.32``Erikwrote a short email while ripping/encoding, sent the email, and like 15 seconds left of the rip/encode for the whole cd
01:35.54tegtmeyenot bad. I take it that was the first time you did that.
01:36.05``Erikon the mac, yeah
01:37.23``Erikand a 16x cdrom with 450mhz athlon wasn't much faster, heh
01:37.42tegtmeyelol, ripping := napster
01:37.43``Erikthe 3.6ghz with 40x at work is slower than the mac, i think... might have to rip another cd there to see
01:38.16``Erikno, just easier than trying to get my computers cdrom working downstairs, trying to learn a song, want to play with the mp3 to get the pattern and timing down
01:38.28``Erikgetting ready for a jam session with a drum beater
01:38.29``Erik:)
01:38.35``Erik<-- heads back down to make more noise
01:38.38tegtmeyeah...
01:38.41tegtmeyehave fun
02:22.56pra5adbrlcad,
02:23.02pra5adu skipping out on us or what
02:23.40``Erikheh, one of these days, I'll figure out wtf i'm doing with that thing
02:28.00brlcadpra5ad: i don't think i've ever worked the day back after new years
02:28.06brlcadmaybe once
02:29.03``Erikgonna cook up hours later?
02:29.15``Erikbastage contractor, workin' first 80 style o.O
02:31.16brlcadheh
02:31.21brlcadi take days off
02:37.48tegtmeyeyo brlcad, any luck on the in-mem thing?
02:39.00``ErikI meant cooking as in overloading hours in a single period :)
02:39.05``Eriklike the 36 hour days
03:09.28brlcadoop, he left
03:20.20pra5adu gonna show up tomorrow?
03:20.58brlcadi'm always here
03:21.31pra5adon post?
03:39.04``Erikheh, prasad wants you to make his manboobs hurt, sean ;) *duck*
03:55.42CIA-5BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/other/iwidgets/pkgIndex.tcl: meh, shouldn't be in cvs, but update to 7.7.0 anyways
04:44.02pra5adwow final fantasy xii cg is too good
05:28.18pra5adfor low-poly models, ingame gfx is real pretty
05:41.33CIA-5BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/libfb/if_ogl.c: there is no saveifp, should be ifp
05:42.11CIA-5BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/libfb/if_ogl_win32.c: no sense using saveifp in a function that provides the ifp
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10:40.09clock_hi
12:31.32brlcadhowdy
12:53.06clock_fine
12:53.18clock_sushi <- burning nose :D
12:54.07brlcadexcellent, i'm jealous
12:54.32clock_here is a crazy law that if you have a computer with media player and sound card connected to Internet, you have to pay fees for radio reception.
12:54.39clock_Do you have this in the US as well?
12:55.31``Eriknot yet o.O
12:55.41clock_``Erik: are you from US as well?
12:55.46clock_this is in switzerland
12:56.16``Erikyeah, I work at the same place as brlcad... used to work on brlcad
12:56.39brlcadseveral countries in europe have broadcasting fees for radio/television
12:56.46brlcadon purchases
12:56.55brlcadwhich I find hilarious
12:58.01archivistbut we get high quality tv with no adverts hehe
12:58.06clock_imagine a poor child that buys a PC and want to educate himself.
12:58.38clock_It cannot afford the fees so he cannot watch multimedia programmes transmitted by Icecast. He can learn only from materials downloadable as single files.
12:58.47clock_I consider this a breach in free speech.
12:59.47``Erikheh, canuckia taxes blank cd's cuz they can be used to record pirated software or music...
13:00.06brlcadheh, canuckia
13:00.11``Erikbasic human knowlege and freedoms take second seat to corporate profits
13:00.15``Eriko.O
13:00.17clock_they should also tax stones because they can be used for violent crime like smashing shop windows
13:00.41clock_``Erik: so this is the motivation to develop free technology to undermine the corporations
13:00.58clock_they tax blank cd's in CZ as well
13:01.02clock_and have broadcast fees
13:02.00clock_what is free speech good for when you don't have freedom of listening?
13:02.09clock_they should also begin tax some kind of thoughts
13:04.27``Erikthat'd be called 'intellectual property', and it isn't taxed as much as sued
13:08.46clock_hehe we are already in fahrenheit 451 and 1984 :)
13:10.17clock_but GPL BRL-CAD is a giant leap for mankind :)
13:10.45clock_I can't understand how someone can use that pussy povray. It's not even free software! It has no style! :D
13:11.33clock_povray or brlcad?
13:11.37``Erikpov
13:12.05clock_I first checked if it's free sw and when I saw it isn't I ditched it even before I tried to find out what it can do :)
13:12.17``Erikalso tried lightwave
13:12.21clock_BRL-CAD is good. Segfault time to time, but when I write report, I get reply
13:12.26``Erikmodelling is not one of my arts
13:13.03``Erikyeah, sean needs to quit replying to your reports and go work on bz
13:13.05``Erik:}
13:13.18clock_lol :)
13:14.13brlcadheh
13:14.53brlcadpov is good for some things, I'd like to set them as a plugin renderer to see the differences
13:15.09brlcadthey can't perform as well, but they do global illumination better
13:16.00brlcadand Twingy had a good idea to implement a path tracer with librt at some point, would be interesting to see too
13:16.57clock_pov is just a commandline tool. BRL-CAD has full-blown hybrid modeling environment.
13:17.24clock_click-clack and your model is done. Like in those Sci-Fi movies.
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14:17.40``Erik*grouse*
14:18.22``Erikso, what, 5pm?
14:18.27brlcadheh
14:18.41``ErikO:-)
14:20.18``Erikhm, southpark guys using xserves for storage, swank
14:27.52clock_xservers for storage?
14:35.12``Erikx-serve, apples rackmount servers
14:58.13clock_omg mapple
14:58.14clock_apple
14:58.33clock_I saw two apple notebooks - in one the motherboard suddenly died, and in the other the LCD inverter suddenly died.
14:58.40clock_My personal opinion is that Apple hardware is crap.
15:08.56pra5adit sure is
15:16.09``Erikheh, two doa's on a big lot is insanely good, prasad
15:35.07CIA-15BRL-CAD: 03bob1961 * 10brlcad/configure.ac: Add more blt dirs to AC_CONFIG_FILES
15:39.47CIA-15BRL-CAD: 03bob1961 * 10brlcad/src/other/blt/Makefile.am: Add EXTRA_DIST. Also add demos and win to SURDIRS.
15:43.02CIA-15BRL-CAD: 03bob1961 * 10brlcad/src/other/blt/src/Makefile.am: Add EXTRA_DIST for Windows
15:44.26CIA-15BRL-CAD: 03bob1961 * 10brlcad/src/other/blt/ (demos/Makefile.am demos/bitmaps/Makefile.am win/Makefile.am): Initial check-in
15:54.10CIA-15BRL-CAD: 03bob1961 * 10brlcad/src/libsysv/Makefile.am: Add to EXTRA_DIST for Windows
15:55.44CIA-15BRL-CAD: 03bob1961 * 10brlcad/src/librt/Makefile.am: Add to EXTRA_DIST for Windows
15:58.42CIA-15BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/fb/fb-bw.c: add support for -F framebuffer option to fb-bw
15:59.50CIA-15BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/NEWS: add support for -F framebuffer option to fb-bw
16:00.19CIA-15BRL-CAD: 03bob1961 * 10brlcad/src/other/libtcl/Makefile.am: Add win to EXTRA_DIST
16:01.30CIA-15BRL-CAD: 03bob1961 * 10brlcad/src/other/libpng/Makefile.am: Add scripts to EXTRA_DIST
16:01.51CIA-15BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/fb/fb-bw.1: add support for -F framebuffer option to fb-bw
16:02.03brlcadwoot, go bob go
16:03.18CIA-15BRL-CAD: 03bob1961 * 10brlcad/src/other/tkimg/ (5 files in 5 dirs): Add to EXTRA_DIST for Windows
16:04.26CIA-15BRL-CAD: 03bob1961 * 10brlcad/src/fbserv/Makefile.am: Add to EXTRA_DIST for Windows
17:04.01*** join/#brlcad DTRemenak (n=DTRemena@DHCP-170-143.caltech.edu)
19:07.49CIA-15BRL-CAD: 03bob1961 * 10brlcad/src/tclscripts/lib/Db.tcl: Change the help for erotate, escale and etranslate to orotate, oscale and otranslate, respectively.
19:10.55CIA-15BRL-CAD: 03bob1961 * 10brlcad/src/tclscripts/lib/Command.tcl: Add back door for accessing the master interpreter (i.e. the Command widget uses a slave interpreter for interfacing with the user). Other minor mods.
19:14.17CIA-15BRL-CAD: 03bob1961 * 10brlcad/src/tclscripts/lib/ColorEntry.tcl: Modified to use tk_chooseColor. Other minor cleanup.
21:27.52CIA-15BRL-CAD: 03bob1961 * 10brlcad/src/tclscripts/lib/ComboBox.tcl: Minor cleanup.
21:29.30CIA-15BRL-CAD: 03bob1961 * 10brlcad/src/tclscripts/archer/Archer.tcl: Minor cleanup.
21:34.38CIA-15BRL-CAD: 03bob1961 * 10brlcad/src/tclscripts/swidgets/scripts/tree.itk: Check-in for Doug Howard.
21:57.45CIA-15BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/sh/header.sh: add support for DOS batch script files, using REM as the comment
22:05.27CIA-15BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/sh/footer.sh: add support for DOS batch script files, using REM as the comment
22:05.34*** join/#brlcad tegtmeye (n=803f2007@bz.bzflag.bz)
22:05.54tegtmeyeyou awake brlcad?
22:09.31brlcadtegtmeye: yes
22:10.21tegtmeyefdopen
22:13.27brlcadthar she be
22:13.37brlcadthought there was one
22:14.20tegtmeyestill not sure it is going to work tho
22:16.05``Eriky'know that 'interview' you did with sf back in aprilish, sean?
22:16.45``Erikthey totally borked up your entry in the 'key developers' sideline :D they got dave's pic and name there hehehehe
22:27.46brlcadahh, so they did
22:27.50brlcadmust be the new site
22:42.50tegtmeye<PROTECTED>
23:34.34``Erik*grouse* my optimizer pass is damaging my code
Jeff Waugh - find it at freshmeat.net! Modified by Tim Riker to work with blootbot logs, split per channel, etc. irclog2html for #brlcad on 20060105

irclog2html for #brlcad on 20060105

00:16.22*** join/#brlcad mahesh (n=mahesh@12-217-228-235.client.mchsi.com)
00:48.49brlcadit's a "special" optimization pass
00:57.42``Erikindeed
00:57.52``ErikI solved the 'eating data' bug, but not the 'ignoringn chunks' bug
00:58.14``Erikbut now I'm busy reading http://philip.greenspun.com/research/software-pricing *sigh*
00:58.21brlcadbetter than spewing chunks
01:00.14brlcadbs article somewhat, i learned photoshop as well as most pros and never touched a manual, barely even slowed me down
01:00.29brlcadthough I might have borrowed from a friend's friend
01:01.15``Eriksome interesting ideas, some obvious flaws, ... ultimately intractable, but an amusing thought exercise
01:02.10``Erikhasta
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12:12.28*** join/#brlcad Mac- (i=t-72@abls163.neoplus.adsl.tpnet.pl)
12:12.31Mac-hi there
12:14.51Mac-anyone works with GraphiteOne CAD ?
13:01.27brlcadheh, no
13:03.42*** join/#brlcad AchiestDragon (n=dave@whipy.demon.co.uk)
13:43.14pra5adwakka wakka
14:49.32``Erikdamnit, it's morning again, that keeps happening
14:51.25archivistdont wake up then
15:03.42``Erik<-- already at the office, doesn't trust these fuckers enough to sleep
16:48.52CIA-15BRL-CAD: 03bob1961 * 10brlcad/src/archer/archer: All of archer including the tclscripts is assigned to u.s. government and should be under the LGPL
16:59.39clock_is it possible to get free software job working on BRL-CAD?
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17:42.52brlcadclock_: yes it is
17:43.39``Erik1heh
17:43.46``ErikI thought I did, bbbuuutttt
17:43.47``Erik:)
17:44.30brlcadwe've been talking about opening contract-style positions for tasks to the community
17:44.42brlcada few K for some feature(s)
17:44.59``Erikah
17:45.02``Erikbounties
17:45.03brlcadstill considering different mechanisms for doing that
17:45.08brlcadyep
17:45.17``Erikopen bounties, or claimed?
17:45.34brlcadeither both, first come first serve, depends
17:46.03``ErikI'd hate to work on a feature just to have some kid with no daytime job beat me to it when I'm 95% done
17:46.19brlcadyeah, that would suck
17:46.32brlcadnot to mention just be inefficient
17:46.43brlcadthere's plenty to do
17:46.44``Erikof course, commiting the task to someone who never finishes it would suck, too :)
17:47.14brlcadthere would have to be some higher incentive for completing a claimed task
17:47.50``Erikif you talk to lee about it soon, would you mind asking about the viability of m3 devers on claiming those bounties, if it ever happen? :)
17:48.04brlcadsure
17:48.08``Erikthnx
17:49.26brlcadI can imagine what he'd say, though what would really matter would be to ask someone higher up or better yet someone external that might care (like legal)
17:49.35brlcador cpo
17:49.54``Erikwell, yeah, but he'd be the vehicle for expressing that aspect up the chain
17:50.19brlcadtechnically, I don't think there's a conflict of interest like you'd have if it were commercial product contracting that is govt involved
17:50.29brlcadsince this is a free product, and from govt
17:52.42``Erikyeah, but *shrug* better to have explicit ok first
17:52.49``Erikcya
18:05.14clock_brlcad: and is it possible to live in Switzerland and work for US?
18:09.46brlcaddepends who you work for and what sort of job
18:10.47brlcadfor what was just mentioned about contracted tasks/bounties, sure
18:16.46clock_hmm but I mean permanent employment
18:21.14brlcadthat's considerably harder
18:21.23brlcadfor many reasons
18:21.56brlcadnot impossible, but the person would have to be proven to be worth it beforehand given the effort it'd take to even try
18:31.43``Erikso he runs off, heh
18:31.44``Erik:D
18:33.41joevalleyfieldbeer
18:33.53``Erikgive me some
18:33.53archivistmysql works that way
18:37.31brlcadmysql works on beer
18:38.58archivistmysql works on every box i run
18:39.07joevalleyfieldhow many run beer?
18:39.35archivisti wish
18:43.06archivistfeeding coffe to a pc is definately not a good idea (dead mb)
18:43.56``Erikmy ibook got hung over when I fed it beer
18:44.22``Erik(quit working, wouldn't boot, two days later, it was ok)
18:45.57``Erikhttp://www.bsdguru.org/img/inst_po_konferencji_640.jpg  o.O
18:46.16archivisti spent a couple of hours washing my mb waited till it dried still buggered though, damn thing was only a few weeks old, had to get another
18:47.27*** join/#brlcad docelic (i=docelic@ri01-024.dialin.iskon.hr)
19:15.40joevalleyfieldanyone here embed python?
19:16.03brlcadminimal exp in bz
19:16.36joevalleyfieldcan you point me in a direction for getting the ldflags?
19:17.03joevalleyfieldshould i just do a straight-forward lib test like brlcad does for tcl?
19:20.42brlcadhmm.. that particular bz plugin used scons, but lemme check what it did
19:21.52brlcadheh, well since scons is already python, it was conveniently on hand via the python interpreter
19:21.58brlcadpython_lib = ['python%d.%d' % sys.version_info[0:2]]
19:21.58brlcadpython_libpath = [sysconfig.get_python_lib (0, 1) + '/config']
19:21.58brlcadpython_include = [sysconfig.get_python_inc ()]
19:21.59brlcadpython_linkflags = Split (sysconfig.get_config_var('LINKFORSHARED'))
19:22.32joevalleyfieldonce i've run path python
19:23.35joevalleyfieldnevermind
19:23.38brlcadyeah, once you've detected python, you can invoke and pull the values
19:23.46joevalleyfieldwhere does it get the sysconfig module?
19:23.54brlcadimport sys
19:24.16brlcadoh, sysconfig
19:24.20brlcadfrom distutils import sysconfig
19:24.57joevalleyfieldah, it is in dist utils :)
19:25.09joevalleyfieldmuch thansks
19:47.17CIA-5BRL-CAD: 03lbutler * 10brlcad/src/rt/ (reshoot.c reshoot.1): (log message trimmed)
19:47.17CIA-5BRL-CAD: This is an application for re-shooting rays and comparing the results
19:47.18CIA-5BRL-CAD: to previous applicatin runs. The princiiple use will probably be
19:47.18CIA-5BRL-CAD: in the regression test suite. In that context, it should allow us
19:47.18CIA-5BRL-CAD: to shoot all the MUVES test suite rays outside of MUVES. The one downside
19:47.18CIA-5BRL-CAD: is that it relies on the RT_G_DEBUG flag DEBUG_ALLHITS to cause librt
19:47.20CIA-5BRL-CAD: to log the original rays. Since floating point values are logged with %g some
19:49.55*** join/#brlcad clock_ (n=clock@84-72-89-199.dclient.hispeed.ch)
19:50.09clock_brlcad: should I send you my CV?
19:55.51CIA-5BRL-CAD: 03lbutler * 10brlcad/src/rt/reshoot.1: Added a "BUGS" section with suitable caveats for precision loss
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20:47.11clock_brlcad: here?
21:03.21``Erikhe's busy
21:06.15*** join/#brlcad Obscene_CNN (n=DiscoBan@owt-64-146-239-67.owt.com)
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22:04.09*** part/#brlcad pier (n=pier@151.56.220.10)
22:05.56CIA-5BRL-CAD: 03lbutler * 10brlcad/src/rt/reshoot.c: better output formatting
22:38.28CIA-5BRL-CAD: 03lbutler * 10brlcad/src/rt/ (reshoot.1 reshoot.c): extended documentation, code formatting, modified reporting
22:40.44CIA-5BRL-CAD: 03lbutler * 10brlcad/NEWS: added reshoot notice.
23:46.22``Erikhome at last
Jeff Waugh - find it at freshmeat.net! Modified by Tim Riker to work with blootbot logs, split per channel, etc. irclog2html for #brlcad on 20060106

irclog2html for #brlcad on 20060106

02:42.08CIA-5BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/fb/fb-bw.c: flubber fubber
03:09.44pra5adi hate the way sen to chihiro ends
03:18.26pra5addaaamn back to back studio ghibli movies on TCM
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08:41.38*** topic/#brlcad is http://brlcad.org/ || BRL-CAD is now Free Software! || 7.6.6 to be released by the 15th!
08:42.53CIA-5BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/librt/db5_scan.c:
08:42.53CIA-5BRL-CAD: init the rt_uniresource structure if it hasn't been initialized yet so that we
08:42.53CIA-5BRL-CAD: can call db_dirbuild() directly without necessarily needing to worry about
08:42.53CIA-5BRL-CAD: initializing a resource structure. this mimicks the behavior and initialization
08:42.53CIA-5BRL-CAD: that rt_dirbuild() performas as well.
08:49.57CIA-5BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/gtools/g_transfer.c: initial stubbed g_transfer example application for transferring portions of a geometry database over a network line serialized. incomplete, but provides the main organization.
08:50.38CIA-5BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/gtools/Makefile.am: add the new g_transfer.c file to the build including the creation of the g_transfer example database application for transferring portions of a .g over the wire serialized.
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14:41.17tippelhi there
14:42.09fennmornin
14:44.33tippelI'm discovering BRL-CAD and I was wondering if I can carry CSG/boolean operations out and obtain a mesh of the result
14:44.40tippelgood morning fenn
14:45.07brlcadtippel: morning
14:45.10brlcadand yes you can
14:45.54brlcadseveral of the geometry converters do that, there is also a "mesh" primitive in brl-cad that you can convert geometry to (called a BoT or "Bag of Triangles")
14:47.08brlcadyou just can't go from mesh back to the csg form since the associativity and operations are lost
14:47.44clock_brlcad: hi
14:48.13brlcadtippel: check out the 'facetize' command in mged and several of the g-* commands outside mged (e.g. g-stl, g-vrml)
14:48.19brlcadclock_: moin moin
14:48.26clock_brlcad: should I send my CV?
14:48.32tippelok thank you, my team is developping applications which need CSG operations but we would like to obtain BoT. Today we're using Open Cascade but this API is very heavy
14:49.20brlcadif you want to programmatically create csg geometry, there are lots of coding examples
14:49.48brlcadthe src/proc-db directory and the src/mk directory both contain a couple dozen examples
14:50.41brlcadplus our license is generally more friendly (and if it gets in the way of something you want to do, let me know)
14:54.23tippelok and is brlcad robust with coplanar polygons during a sub boolean operation ? (a rectangular hole, in a wall )
14:55.23brlcadwithin the numerical tolerance of your hardware, sure
14:56.08brlcadif there's floating point fuzz that make them seem distinct, there can be issues but the raytracer will visually show you whether that's an issue
14:56.26brlcadplug you there are 5 different tolerances you can set turing tesselation
14:56.48brlcadnumerical computation tolerance, curvature tolerance, absolute tolerance, etc
14:59.48``ErikI saw a wall once
15:00.32``Eriksean, 8pm, dude... :D
15:00.38brlcadoh yeah!
15:00.48brlcadthx, i'd forgot
15:01.22``Erikshould I try to remember to remind you again when I leave at like 6?
15:02.06brlcadhehe
15:02.14brlcadnah, now it'll be stuck in my head all day
15:02.22``Erik'k
15:03.51tippelok thank you very much (I hate webchat :) )
15:04.42brlcadfeel free to get a real irc client and hang around ;)
15:04.54``ErikBitchX-1.1-final+ by panasync - FreeBSD 6.0-STABLE
15:04.56``Erikwokkawokka
15:05.15brlcadirssi in screen
15:05.28tippelyes but at work, my firewall is not very kind with me :(
15:05.47``Erikheh
15:05.57``Erikso ssh into your home box? :D
15:06.30tippelssh on port 80 ;)
15:07.07tippelbecause port 22 is closed too :'(
15:07.21tippelI wish I had time to do that
15:07.38``Eriksilly firewall admins, thinking they can control behavior by blocking ports
15:08.43tippelyep
15:08.57tippelare you all brlcad developpers ?
15:09.26brlcadsome are, some aren't
15:09.33tippelok
15:09.35brlcadi am
15:09.59fenni'm writing a program that may or may not use brlcad libs
15:10.04tippelbrlcad : I guessed ;)
15:10.24tippelok
15:12.23*** join/#brlcad flocou (n=c3532a82@bz.bzflag.bz)
15:13.05tippelhi flocou
15:13.24flocouyep
15:13.36brlcadhowdy flocou
15:14.04brlcadheh, a matching pair
15:14.18flocouwell, thx...buzness neighbor of  tippel...
15:14.47brlcadwhat sort of business if you can share?
15:15.29brlcadmaking those little metal tips on the end of pencils?
15:15.58flocoubrlcad is rather new for us...we're looking for strong open source CSG package...aim is to compute 3D shape representation of IFC models (do U know this format ?)...and to replace OpenCascade CSG computations...
15:19.11brlcadbrl-cad's raytrace library is one of the oldest established csg packages around
15:20.00brlcaddon't know the "IFC" format explicitly but from what I know of the data model, it's a pretty trivial mapping
15:20.24tippelIFC is a STEP-based product model
15:20.24brlcadespecially with ifc's idea of modeling "space" and brl-cad's concept of air regions
15:20.34brlcadahhh
15:20.57tippelIndustry Foundation Classes, used for AEC
15:21.20brlcadyou mean that bastard iso spec sitting in a box with over 10K pages sitting right over .. *kicks box* here?
15:23.13``Erikdamn, I'm hungry
15:23.22tippelBut IFC doesn't use all spec of STEP
15:23.27brlcadand that 10+k pages is only 5 subsets of 10303, ap11, ap203, ap214, ..
15:23.40flocouAFAIK, it seems to be possible to export csg geometry results to vrml ? another issue is : is brlcad thread-safe ?
15:24.34brlcadtippel: which is a good thing -- i don't think most cad companies could afford to support the entire 10303 -- it fills about 40 feet of shelf space printed
15:24.38tippelflocou : brlcad told me that you can use and import/export bag of triangles
15:24.52brlcadflocou: yes, there is a vrml exporter
15:25.20tippelof course, IFC uses only 10303-11 (express language) and 10303-21 (files exchange)
15:25.36tippeland is quite inspired from 10303-42 (geometric representation)
15:25.39brlcadit used to be vrml 1.0 but was upgraded to vrml 2 without retaining a toggle for 1, wouldn't take much to revert or readd support
15:26.36brlcadthat just means ifc is sufficiently generic, 21 allows for arbitrary higher-level ap conformance whcih  you have to support if you want to actually write a converter (e.g. ap203, ap214)
15:26.50brlcadap42 is just gravy
15:27.10tippelIs brlcad thread safe ?
15:27.18brlcadflocou: yes, brl-cad is extensively thread safe or the functions are marked if when they are not
15:27.38brlcadthe entire raytrace library is specifically geared for massive parallel computation
15:27.54brlcadwhich is what drives most of the csg analysis
15:28.04brlcads/most/all/
15:28.48brlcadbrl-cad has it's own multiprocessing management as well that you can just enable
15:29.15brlcadso that geometry is prepared in parallel, walk databases in parallel, etc
15:31.09tippelis this multiprocessing management compatible with sgi sproc or pthread ?
15:31.59brlcadby default on sgi, it prefers sproc
15:32.07brlcadbut could be compiled to use pthread
15:32.25brlcadsproc preferrered for performance reasons usually (though yeah, incompatible)
15:36.32CIA-5BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/TODO: new geometry examples aren't going to happen this iteration
15:38.13clock_brlcad: have you fixed some of the bugs I reported?
15:39.01tippelok thx
15:39.44flocouok, thx brlcad for all these precisions...
15:41.21brlcadclock_: some yes, some no.. working on them
15:41.45brlcadthis month is a bit difficult since the windows merge is also going on
15:42.02brlcadand archer was added
15:42.10brlcadmassive code merging
15:42.29brlcadstill not back to stable builds on head yet
15:45.43*** topic/#brlcad by brlcad -> http://brlcad.org/ || BRL-CAD is now Free Software! || BRL-CAD Windows port has been merged to HEAD, not yet stable yet || December/January is a unified iteration to allow time for holidays || Archer is now on head, kick the tires, report any bugs
15:47.39clock_brlcad: windows merge? what is it?
15:47.59clock_brlcad: what does kick the tires mean?
15:56.08brlcadclock_: we've been working on the brl-cad port to windows for some time now (several years actually)
15:56.08CIA-5BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/HACKING:
15:56.08CIA-5BRL-CAD: additional release may be made on an as-needed basis for bug-fix releases and
15:56.08CIA-5BRL-CAD: security issues. December/January time frame is considered a single release
15:56.08CIA-5BRL-CAD: iteration in order to accommodate holidays and vacations, and to give the devs a
15:56.08CIA-5BRL-CAD: break.
15:57.01brlcadthe work accelerated this summer, with a cvs branch getting created that had all of the modifications necessary for windows
15:57.43brlcadthese modifications were recently merged in with the core of brl-cad (so that we can start consistently making windows binary releases in addition to our usual plethora of systems)
15:58.06clock_brlcad: wow!
15:58.13brlcadkicking the tires is an expression, means try it out
15:58.24brlcadarcher is a new modeling interface
15:58.42brlcadworked on by the same guys that worked on the windows port
16:00.47tippelbye all
16:04.21fennbrlcad: i converted the 19MB ApplicationDevelopment file to html, so that others wouldn't have to download a 19MB file and find out there was only about 20K of text
16:04.54fennhttp://fenn.dyndns.org/pub/ApplicationDevelopment.html
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16:05.43brlcadhmm
16:05.48brlcad~ping fenn.dydns.org
16:05.50ibotpong fenn.dydns.org
16:07.23brlcadfenn: thanks, I'll post it
16:07.29brlcad(and agree)
16:08.01brlcadit was a presentation that was just provided for convenience since it's a fairly frequent request
16:08.35brlcadfenn: mind you that presentation is fairly specific to writing analysis-style applications
16:08.49fennright
16:08.49brlcadif you are writing out geometry, you don't really need to be concerned with most of that
16:09.30fennhow do i test intersection of two solids?
16:10.14fenndo a boolean intersection and see if anything is left?
16:11.33brlcadah, we call those overlaps
16:11.50brlcadconfused me there for a sec
16:12.10fenner sorry, i'm talking about collision detection
16:12.11brlcadboolean intersections inherintly don't "overlap"
16:12.16brlcadright
16:12.27fennhavent slept yet :)
16:12.41brlcadme either ;)
16:12.56brlcadalmost time for midday coffee
16:13.58brlcadfor testing intersection of two implicitly defined objects, you have to use ray introspection
16:14.18fenn.
16:14.21fennoops
16:14.40brlcadjust mathematically due to the nature of implicits
16:14.54brlcadnow if you convert it to an explicit model, there are other techniques available
16:15.13brlcadbut brl-cad deals best with implicits currently
16:15.17fennwhat is the difference between explicit and implicit geometry?
16:16.04brlcadimplicit geometry has no defined boundary, it's a mathematical model
16:16.20brlcadnumerically defined by mathematical geometric shapes
16:16.38fennlike a sphere
16:16.38brlcade.g. an ellipsoid defined by a point and major and minor radius
16:16.51brlcadtake that same object and represent it differently
16:17.02fennis a bot explicit?
16:17.03brlcadsay, as a bunch of triangles on the surface
16:17.06fennok
16:17.08brlcadand you have explicit
16:17.21brlcador a set of surface splines, also explicit
16:18.41brlcadvery different problems determining whether i'm "inside" a sphere comprised of a bunch of triangles, or one that's implicit
16:19.13brlcadfor the implicit form, it might be a simple distance test for a sphere, if distance to center is < radius then I'm inside
16:19.35fenncan i apply a n*m transformation matrix and still end up with implicit geometry?
16:19.36brlcadfor explicit, if all I have are the triangles, I'm performing planar side checks
16:19.43brlcadsure
16:19.48fenn(for that matter can i apply a n*m matrix at all?)
16:19.58brlcadyou can apply all the same rigid, non-rigid transformations
16:20.49brlcadbrl-cad has a couple primitives that are not well behaved for certain non-rigid transformations (because mathematically they are not well defined for them) like trying to skew o torus for example
16:31.18fennthanks.. seeya
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18:08.43phcoder:-(
18:23.25brlcadthey sucked, but my quads are jelly now
18:34.28pier20 reps and get plenty of GH :)
18:41.46``Erikya'll're sick perverts
18:44.55brlcadGH?
18:45.26brlcadgerbil hamsters?
18:45.35``Erikgay homosexuals? o.O
18:45.39``Erik*duck*
18:46.07``Erikgrr, six hours and 15 minute
18:46.08``Eriks
18:48.06phcoderdid pra5ad do squats?
18:49.49brlcadhe did!
18:49.58brlcadand didn't collapse
18:50.10phcodergood for him
18:50.18phcoderbar? ;-)
18:50.24phcoderj/k
18:51.17brlcadheh
18:51.17brlcadactually
18:51.19brlcad.. he started with that
18:53.16phcoderand then...
18:56.20brlcad25s
18:56.31brlcadtried 35s but he couldn't but a couple
18:56.48brlcador you mean what other exercise
18:57.40brlcadafter was situps with the medicine ball and pec deck
18:57.55phcoderno - that's what I meant. i bet the stability was difficult - i remember it was starting out for me...
18:58.03phcodergood workout today
18:58.05phcoder:-(
18:58.13phcodermissed it durnit
19:00.12brlcadhe did surprisingly good form actually
19:01.52phcoderwhat'd you do?
19:21.37pierGrowth Hormone
19:24.02pieracording to Stuart McRobert GH production can naturally increased with 20 reps squat
19:25.16brlcadahh
19:25.27brlcadphcoder: i aint telling
19:26.22brlcadpier: that sounds a bit dubious for large muscle growth
19:26.37pierwhy?
19:26.43brlcadusually the bigger the muscles, the lower the reps you want for growth
19:27.37pieras long as you work out large muscles GH and test is increased easing the growth of all muscles
19:28.17MaloeranThe cardiovascular system is usually what you want to train to be in good shapes, not particular groups of muscles
19:28.46piertry doind 20 reps full speed ahead and you tell me then...
19:29.11MaloeranHum sorry but what are "reps", push-ups, pull-ups?
19:29.17pierI reduced my heart pace from 85 to 55 (idle)
19:30.01phcoderreps = repetitions
19:30.14phcoderof some exercise
19:30.21MaloeranThat's rather vague :)
19:30.45phcoderwell - we were talking about squats...
19:30.49brlcadyet makes complete since if you'd ever lifted ;)
19:30.59brlcadsense too
19:31.07phcoderhmm - then maybe 20 reps of ... cleans ... ? :-)
19:31.07piermaybe but that a fact :)
19:31.15brlcadbastage! :)
19:31.38brlcadthat would be interesting to try, but it'd have to be such a lower weight
19:31.51phcoderyou know - just 135 should be fine
19:31.55brlcadmy joints couldn't take that many
19:31.55pierI own up I wouldn't be able to make a clean even with a broom stick
19:32.36brlcadphcoder: did full stack on peck deck :)
19:33.03brlcadpier: yet sounds like you workout some?
19:33.10piera bit
19:33.31pierbeen dooing that for the past five years
19:33.32phcoderfull stack huh... hrmph
19:35.45brlcadthink it was 140 or 130
19:35.59brlcadseveral yeps then peaked
19:39.45MaloeranI still think the time would be much better spent running, for example... :) though I never lifted
19:41.08brlcadgood stuff
19:41.19brlcadi bike or row for my cardio
19:44.20Maloeran*nods* Quite good. Besides when Montreal is covered in snow, I'm used to do 30km daily too ( 18 miles? )
19:46.58brlcad~convert 30 km to m
19:47.06brlcadheh
19:47.09brlcad~convert 30 km to miles
19:48.54*** part/#brlcad phcoder (n=phcoder@pcp0011650294pcs.aberdn01.md.comcast.net)
19:51.00``Erikwhat the frack...
19:51.13brlcadno no
19:51.16brlcadwhat the frell
19:51.51``Erik... ok, how about... what the flying fuck did that fucking fucktard do to the fucking source
19:51.54``Erikbetter? :)
19:52.09brlcadhm, i suppose it's time for bsg lingo, always liked farscapes though :)
19:52.47brlcadat least this isn't
19:52.52brlcad.. ever, never mind
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21:17.10pierCould there be a reason why fb-png gets stuck?
21:19.09brlcadgets stuck?
21:19.27brlcadnever seen it get stuck, slow maybe, but not stuck
21:19.52pierHi brlcad, yes it always worked but now ..
21:20.20brlcadonly reason it might get stuck is if the framebuffer isn't responding
21:20.24piermaybe I added some perticoular object that is not allowed
21:20.39brlcadfb-png knows nothing about objects
21:20.44pierok
21:20.53brlcadit's just pixel manipulation
21:21.07brlcadnetwork communication, file writing
21:21.19pierexec fb-png -w 1024 -n 768 -F:0 frs.png
21:21.39pieris the syntax correct?
21:21.41brlcadahh, heh
21:21.55brlcadso calling from inside mged presumably?
21:22.07brlcadis mged frozen?
21:22.19pierfrom both inside and outside
21:22.20brlcadshould usually just call from outside mged
21:22.24pieryes ... blocked
21:22.31brlcadis the framebuffer on?
21:22.34brlcadand listening?
21:22.34pieryes
21:22.38pieryes
21:22.53pierlisten for client is checked
21:23.22brlcadhmm
21:23.44brlcadand mged isn't hung?
21:23.48brlcadi.e. menus work, etc
21:23.49pierI am beig trying again from a terminal
21:24.09pieryes .. mged working
21:24.26pierframe buffer 0 is on
21:24.59piertop doesn't reveal any buzz from fb-png
21:25.03brlcadwhat's the window size?
21:25.14pierehmm
21:25.30brlcadoh!
21:25.34pierhow do I know?
21:25.38brlcadframebuffer arg isn't right
21:25.38piersorry
21:25.39brlcad-F0
21:26.14brlcadstill might not work, but :0 means localhost port 0
21:26.29brlcadinstead of just first port
21:27.12pierno activity... neither with :F0
21:27.21pier-F0
21:27.33brlcadtry fb-png -F0 file.png
21:27.40pierpng file created but empty
21:28.03pieralready done... I'll try again
21:28.24brlcadit shouldn't take long
21:28.27brlcadsee if the file created
21:28.54pierfile's there zero bytes
21:29.10pierspooky... it always worked
21:29.33pierstill frozen
21:29.37brlcadhmm..
21:29.56brlcadcan you raytrace inside mged?
21:30.08pierI have a fancy I messed something
21:30.13pierperfectly
21:30.33pierraytrace inside mged works fine
21:30.59brlcadwhat about raytracing directly to file
21:31.10piergonna kill fb-png and rm png file created
21:31.26brlcadactually ..
21:31.29brlcadyeah do that then..
21:31.41brlcadrun this:  fbserv 1 /dev/Xl &
21:31.48pierok
21:32.24piermged> exec fbserv 1 /dev/Xl &
21:32.24pier13417
21:32.24pierpkg_permserver: bind: errno=98
21:32.24piermged>
21:32.33pierfrom terminal?
21:32.39brlcadahh
21:32.46brlcadmged's isn't on 0
21:32.54pierlord
21:33.03pierand where?
21:33.06brlcadtry fb-png -F1 file.png
21:33.40pierstrike
21:34.24pierbrlcad what's happening?
21:34.31pierit worked now
21:34.33brlcadstrike as it didn't work?
21:34.45pierno no... it worked :)
21:34.47brlcadahh
21:34.48brlcadgood
21:35.14brlcadfor whatever reason, when you started mged, it couldn't use port 0
21:35.25brlcadso it tries the next available
21:35.31pierso it is using port 1
21:35.31brlcadwhich was apparently 1
21:35.43brlcadmaybe you started that mged while another was running
21:35.50pierwas making me crazy
21:36.05piernot really
21:36.06brlcador you had an fbserv, or raytrace in progress to a lingering one.. various things
21:36.16brlcadfor whatever reason, 0 was taken
21:36.38brlcadps auxwww|grep mged    maybe to make sure there's not a stale mged
21:36.38pierhow can I find out what process is working on 0
21:36.48pierok
21:37.12pierpier@darkstar:~/brlcad/bin$ ps aux | grep mged
21:37.12pierpier     13358  0.2  2.4  19460 12628 ?        S    22:13   0:02 mged
21:37.13pierpier@darkstar:~/brlcad/bin$                                          
21:37.35pierit looks like only one is running
21:38.30brlcadtelnet localhost 5559
21:39.26brlcaddo you get:
21:39.36brlcadTrying 127.0.0.1...
21:39.36brlcadConnected to localhost (127.0.0.1).
21:39.37brlcadEscape character is '^]'.
21:39.41brlcador something different
21:39.49pierexactly the same
21:40.00brlcadthen there is a framebuffer listening :)
21:40.10brlcadsomewhere
21:40.50pieris it a zombie process?
21:40.59brlcadyou can disconnect from that with a ctrl-]
21:41.11brlcadthen 'quit'
21:41.28pierdone
21:42.26brlcadlsof | grep 55
21:42.49brlcadlsof | grep 5559
21:45.14pierfb-png    13207   pier  txt       REG        3,1     27867    205505 /home/pier/brlcad/rel-7.6.4/i686-pc-linux-gnu/bin/fb-png
21:45.14pierfb-png    13207   pier  mem       REG        3,1   6556762    200390 /usr/brlcad/rel-7.6.4/i686-pc-linux-gnu/lib/libtcl8.4.so.19.0.1
21:45.14pierfb-png    13207   pier  mem       REG        3,1     33552    153295 /usr/X11R6/lib/libXi.so.6.0
21:45.14pierfb-png    13207   pier    8u     IPv4     718867                 TCP *:5559 (LISTEN)
21:45.14pierfb-png    13207   pier    9u     IPv4     759842                 TCP localhost:37324->localhost:5559 (ESTABLISHED)
21:45.32piermged is not running now
21:45.39brlcadahh
21:46.00pierwhat is all that rubbish?
21:46.08brlcadyou ran an fb-png -F:0 before running mged or at least before raytracing in mged
21:46.23brlcadso the fb-png starts up as a server
21:46.35brlcadexpecting streaming input
21:47.03brlcad(that's so you can string together fb-png with pipes)
21:47.12pierI don't remember ...
21:47.54brlcad:)
21:48.11brlcadprobably the very first thing you did before raytracing
21:48.28brlcadyou can kill it (or find it and kill it
21:48.44pierok
21:49.48pierfb-png is no longer running
21:50.48pierlsof | grep 55 doesn't return fb-png messages
21:52.17pierI'll try to give the command again
21:56.08pierincredible... again not working :,(
21:58.35brlcadlsof |grep LISTEN
21:58.47pierfb-png -F2 frs6.png worked now
21:59.05pierNULL
22:00.14pierlsof |grep LISTEN -> nothing
22:00.29brlcadeh, is mged running?
22:00.35pieryes
22:01.19brlcadhmm, then it should be listening
22:01.23brlcadframebuffer active?
22:01.35brlcadlsof | grep mged
22:01.50piernuthin
22:08.03pieryes framebuffer active
22:15.02brlcadi'm not sure really, if lsof doesn't show it, it's not open -- that's a system tool
22:15.25brlcad"open file" listing
22:15.57pierok I spotted it now
22:16.22piergave just lsfo
22:19.30pierkilled
22:22.28pierthank you very much!   I have learnt something else.
22:23.44piernow can go to bed and rest... 2morrow legs at the  gym for me too
22:28.10brlcadsounds great
22:28.24brlcadi should go row now that you mention..
22:28.31brlcadcheers!
22:29.28piernight and thanks (rowing... fantastic)
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22:31.35phcoderbrlcad: dinner?
22:32.59brlcadtonight?!
22:33.03brlcadit's it's ..
22:33.09phcoderfriday
22:33.15phcoderyes. it is.
22:33.22brlcadstart of the new season for sg1, atlantis, bsg :)
22:33.41phcoderwe have that channel, for now.
22:33.47phcoderall on tonight?
22:33.51phcoderone after the other?
22:33.58brlcadyup
22:34.05phcoderinteresting. come over.
22:34.14brlcadheh
22:34.24brlcadso.. tiny :)
22:35.25phcoderi just said that to nettie: he probably will complain about the small screen ;-)
22:35.56brlcadhehe
22:35.58phcodertoo bad i can't pipe TV to my 30 in
22:36.06brlcadseriously, that'd be sweet
22:36.18phcoderoh yes. i bet I can get a card for it... hmmmmmmm
22:36.36brlcadthey used to make 1 card and 1 usb device with crappy quality
22:36.43phcoderfor os x?
22:36.52phcodermaybe hauppage has one
22:36.54brlcadhaven't looked in months though .. i've wanted that for a long time
22:37.05phcoderso - comin over?
22:37.17brlcadeasy to find the cards, hard to find os x supported one
22:37.26phcoderyeah
22:38.39brlcadnah, not tonight .. going to gym again for a lil bit then showtime in my dungeon
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22:42.25phcoderfine
22:42.41phcoderwe'll see what coderwife has to say about that
23:01.24*** part/#brlcad coderwife (n=nettie@pcp0011650294pcs.aberdn01.md.comcast.net)
23:03.55``Erikheh
23:04.01``Erikstarts at 8, scifi...
23:05.13phcoderbuh bye
Jeff Waugh - find it at freshmeat.net! Modified by Tim Riker to work with blootbot logs, split per channel, etc. irclog2html for #brlcad on 20060107

irclog2html for #brlcad on 20060107

00:20.20``Erik*yawn*
02:24.12pra5adgot back just in time
02:24.13pra5adyay
03:57.26pra5addaaamn what an ep =)
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22:34.25PrezKennedy4.0 GPA this semester!!!
23:00.59*** join/#brlcad ibot_ (i=ibot@pdpc/supporter/active/TimRiker/bot/apt)
23:00.59*** topic/#brlcad is http://brlcad.org/ || BRL-CAD is now Free Software! || BRL-CAD Windows port has been merged to HEAD, not yet stable yet || December/January is a unified iteration to allow time for holidays || Archer is now on head, kick the tires, report any bugs
23:53.37*** join/#brlcad ibot (i=ibot@rikers.org)
23:53.38*** topic/#brlcad is http://brlcad.org/ || BRL-CAD is now Free Software! || BRL-CAD Windows port has been merged to HEAD, not yet stable yet || December/January is a unified iteration to allow time for holidays || Archer is now on head, kick the tires, report any bugs
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23:57.29*** topic/#brlcad is http://brlcad.org/ || BRL-CAD is now Free Software! || BRL-CAD Windows port has been merged to HEAD, not yet stable yet || December/January is a unified iteration to allow time for holidays || Archer is now on head, kick the tires, report any bugs
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23:59.33*** topic/#brlcad is http://brlcad.org/ || BRL-CAD is now Free Software! || BRL-CAD Windows port has been merged to HEAD, not yet stable yet || December/January is a unified iteration to allow time for holidays || Archer is now on head, kick the tires, report any bugs
Jeff Waugh - find it at freshmeat.net! Modified by Tim Riker to work with blootbot logs, split per channel, etc. irclog2html for #brlcad on 20060108

irclog2html for #brlcad on 20060108

00:22.05*** join/#brlcad ibot (i=ibot@rikers.org)
00:22.05*** topic/#brlcad is http://brlcad.org/ || BRL-CAD is now Free Software! || BRL-CAD Windows port has been merged to HEAD, not yet stable yet || December/January is a unified iteration to allow time for holidays || Archer is now on head, kick the tires, report any bugs
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01:21.07PrezKennedyill reconsider a gov't job when our fine senators and representatives and GWB have to sit through ethics training like the rest of us
01:41.29pra5adhear hear
02:04.22tegtmeyeyo
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02:40.49pra5adsup mike
02:48.57tegtmeyehows the engine?
03:14.42pra5adslow progress
03:14.53pra5admost of the time spent on 'OO' design
03:14.57pra5ad=(
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19:09.44maheshhi Sean
19:10.01brlcadhowdy mahesh
19:10.03brlcadbeen a while
19:10.09maheshyeah
19:10.14brlcadat least a while since you've spoken :)
19:10.20maheshtrue
19:10.28maheshas usual, had few questions
19:10.32brlcadhow's the vacation?
19:10.44maheshits good....enjoying
19:11.00brlcadthat's good
19:11.25maheshhowz yours?
19:12.27clock_brlcad: hi
19:12.50brlcadno vacation here yet, but the holidays were nice
19:12.54brlcadhi clock_
19:14.40maheshnice
19:16.14maheshthere is rt_shootray defined in shoot.c and vshoot.c
19:16.44brlcadyes, no need to worry about the latter
19:17.03brlcadthat's for vectorized computation
19:17.24maheshoh ok. my code currently breaks in rt_shootray
19:17.35maheshi am trying to figure out why exactly that is happening
19:17.44brlcadbacktrace?
19:18.01maheshas of now, all the processors gets a certain chunk of pixel
19:18.16maheshthen when everyone tries to call rt_shootray
19:18.33brlcadhow do they all get the geometry?
19:18.34maheshthe initiator node works fine but others blow up
19:18.40maheshhow do i backtrace?
19:18.51brlcadever used gdb?
19:19.11maheshyeah
19:19.47brlcadcan run it in gdb to see where it halts, not sure how that'll work on the remote nodes though
19:20.09brlcadif you can get the remote to generate a core file, you could get a backtrace with that
19:20.38brlcadhow'd you determine it was in rt_shootray to begin with?
19:21.40maheshpretty ugly way but it works. i just used a print statement just before the call to rt_shootray and a statement after the function call.
19:22.09maheshso all the nodes print the first statement
19:23.10brlcadhehe
19:23.21brlcadso "somewhere" inside of rt_shootray() :)
19:23.59maheshyeah
19:24.43brlcadhow are you invoking rt?
19:24.54brlcadthere are debug flags you can pass at runtime
19:25.01brlcadthat will cause loads of output
19:26.08maheshmpirun -np <no. of processors> ./rt model.g <objects>
19:26.22brlcadthe -x parameter for starters, try  -x 1
19:27.21maheshok
19:27.58brlcadthere are bit fields defined in include/raytrace.h for DEBUG_* -- pass that to -x to get various sorts of debug output
19:29.24brlcad1 is to print debug information about calls to rt_shootray() ;)
19:29.43brlcad15 should be "everything" related to shotlining (first four bits)
19:29.44maheshoh great. i wanted exactly that
19:30.03brlcad#define DEBUG_ALLRAYS   0x00000001      /* 1 Print calls to rt_shootray() */
19:30.04brlcad#define DEBUG_ALLHITS   0x00000002      /* 2 Print partitions passed to a_hit() */
19:30.06brlcad#define DEBUG_SHOOT     0x00000004      /* 3 Info about rt_shootray() processing */
19:30.09brlcad#define DEBUG_INSTANCE  0x00000008      /* 4 regionid instance revectoring */
19:30.48brlcadadd up the values you want and that should be what you can provide to -x
19:30.54maheshgot it
19:33.53CIA-5BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/gtools/g_transfer.c: add an optional geometry argument for specifying what geometry to send (default is all); add a help option and make short options case insensitive
19:46.04learnerbig legs aren't going to help me bench next month
19:46.29learnerneither will writing into the wrong window ;)
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Jeff Waugh - find it at freshmeat.net! Modified by Tim Riker to work with blootbot logs, split per channel, etc. irclog2html for #brlcad on 20060109

irclog2html for #brlcad on 20060109

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10:04.56clock__brlcad: funny comic strip about ronja -> http://ronja.twibright.com/shamrock.png
10:05.04clock__brlcad: do you have comic strip about brlcad? :)
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14:20.43brlcadclock__: heh, maybe but none come to mind
14:23.02clock__brlcad: something with m1a1 abrams :)
14:24.00``Eriko.O
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17:08.34*** topic/#brlcad is http://brlcad.org/ || BRL-CAD is now Free Software! || BRL-CAD Windows port has been merged to HEAD, not yet stable yet || December/January is a unified iteration to allow time for holidays || Archer is now on head, kick the tires, report any bugs
17:45.52CIA-5BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/gtools/g_transfer.c:
17:45.52CIA-5BRL-CAD: commit a version that walks the specified geometry both with db_walk_tree() and
17:45.52CIA-5BRL-CAD: db_functree(). db_functree was ultimately considerably more simple for this
17:45.52CIA-5BRL-CAD: exercise, but useful to see what was provided with db_walk_tree and the
17:45.52CIA-5BRL-CAD: differences. add support to run the client either passing all geometry or just a
17:45.53CIA-5BRL-CAD: subset (hence the subtree walking)
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17:51.51clock__brlcad: what would you do if someone posted lots of bugreports, which would be technically correct, but would write them in a way you wouldn't like, were emotionally loaded and critical to you or the project?
17:52.05clock__brlcad: would you ban the poster with a message "banned for trolling"?
17:56.07CIA-5BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/gtools/g_transfer.c: get rid of the db_walk_tree method since db_functree is considerably more simple for this purpose. stash the server details into our data struct.
17:56.22brlcadclock__: it really would depend on the language and intent
17:57.04brlcadif the intent was to cause trouble, they would probably either be blocked from posting or reported for abuse
17:57.50brlcadif they were just upset of some issue, it would get disregarded and treated like any other report
17:58.24brlcadmore likely it would get closed/unresolved if there was insufficient details to reproduce the problem
18:02.45clock__brlcad: it would be a short proposal of particular change in documentation, with lots of text why it's important which would include emotionally charged parable that would strongly criticize the current state
18:06.02clock__brlcad: then you have different approach than gentoo ;-)
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18:10.57toresbehey
18:11.19toresbehmm.
18:11.21toresbebye.
18:11.22*** part/#brlcad toresbe (i=tsb@developer.skolelinux.no)
18:26.48kaolhello. I'm going to package brlcad for Debian. wish me luck. ;-)
18:28.28brlcadexcellent
18:29.37brlcadkaol: there was a guy that made a package for Debian back 6+ months for 7.6.0
18:30.27brlcadmost of the stuff is outdated now or changed (e.g. dual-licensed docs) considerably, but it might be a starting point  http://scientificcomputing.net/debian/packages/brlcad/
18:30.56brlcadplus wasn't too fond of the "install everything into /usr/share/brlcad part"
18:31.04brlcadbut it was a good first stab
18:31.37brlcadstill looking for someone interested enough to become the debian sponsor/maintainer for us, though -- I don't keep debian systems on hand readily enough myself
18:31.57kaolhmm. I didn't see anything about that in the request for package bug report.
18:32.31brlcadhmm.. i don't remember knowing that there was a request for package report ;)
18:32.40kaolthanks for the pointer, I'll see if there's anything I can use
18:32.48kaolhttp://bugs.debian.org/289684
18:33.40brlcadthanks for the link, good to know
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19:33.15``Erikgrar, arms tightening up o.O
19:42.52kaolI've packaged a few apps from scratch and adopted a couple too. But I've done nothing of this scale yet.
19:44.02``Erikis there a good webpage describing the process? debian packaging for dummies?
19:45.08``Erikahhh, the power of local.google :) with the satallite view, I can actually find the trail I walk on
19:47.45kaolthere's the new maintainer's guide (http://www.us.debian.org/doc/maint-guide/)
19:48.13kaoldeveloper's reference and the policy are the major references
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19:57.07brlcadwe used to have automated rpm generation, there's a script stub in sh/ but i'd be surprised if it didn't need tweaking
20:04.05``Erikhm, I do mine in Makefile.am with configure generating an rpm.spec from rpm.spec.in
20:04.23``ErikI thought I strapped that into brlcad when I converted it to automake
20:06.39brlcadwow
20:06.51brlcadso prasad was whining, I bet
20:06.58brlcadhis jelly legs
20:11.35``Erikhuh? heh, I'm not at the office, rdo
20:11.54``ErikI went to the 'clubhouse' where I live, then walked the greenway
20:12.00brlcadahh
20:12.08``Erik<-- boggled he could get 130 up
20:12.21brlcadhehe
20:12.26brlcadalready passed up pra5ad
20:12.57``Erikheh
20:13.00``Erikand he's bigger than me
20:13.00``Erikpheer
20:13.04``Erikwhat's he pushing?
20:13.18``Erik<-- did two sets of 70, a set of 100, then 130 once, is a pussy
20:14.19brlcadmaybe about the same, last time was about 3 sets of 10x95 iirc
20:14.35brlcadhe's still learning his balance
20:14.41brlcadbut making progress
20:15.00``Erikcan't stick him in a universal until he gets some tone?
20:15.36brlcaddoing that too
20:17.19``Erikhttp://www.mypyramidtracker.gov/  is interesting
20:17.59brlcadheh, i read about that in one of my lifting mags just last night
20:18.43``Erikthe ui is rough, but it's interesting
20:19.08``ErikI'm gonna try to use it to help me figure out what to eat
20:19.31``Erikmy diet of burgers, pizza, bratwurst, and eggs is probably not entirely healthy
20:19.35``Erik:)
20:20.51``Erikyou bastards and your gym trips, tricking me from the pure path of chuck and ed o.O
20:24.03archivistgeeks and programmers arnt supposed to exercise afaik
20:26.22brlcadheh
20:43.04``Erikthat's an odd stereotype
20:43.21``Erikwe don't play team sports, but we exercise...
20:43.28phcoderyay, Erik, went to the gym, eh?
20:43.33``Erikayup
20:43.41``Erikhad to search for my proxy card, heh
20:43.45``Erikbeen so long since I've gone
20:43.50phcoderkeep it up. don't listen to that stuff about programmers not exercising ;-)
20:44.13phcodergo every day with us...
20:44.28``Erikin the middle of the day? no way, that's more of a late afternoon activity
20:44.40phcoderit's not too bad...
20:45.01``Erikplus, I'm trying to get fat, so I have to keep eating 2000 kcal greaseslop at lunch
20:45.15phcoderwell, it won't take too long then
20:47.10brlcadheh, yet
22:42.35*** join/#brlcad tegtmeye (n=803f2007@bz.bzflag.bz)
22:42.53tegtmeyebrlcad,, you around?
22:49.26brlcadoccasionally
22:55.29tegtmeyehaving some issues with shooting rays on brlcad
22:56.16brlcadi have the example extracting external forms of the geometry for transport now in the example app if you're interested
22:56.19tegtmeyein application str, the file has...
22:56.25tegtmeyea_ray.r_dirUNIT VECTOR with direction to fire in (dir cosines)
22:56.34tegtmeyebig yep!
22:56.45tegtmeye? is, what is dir cosines?
22:57.27tegtmeyeis the code in cvs?
22:57.32brlcadyeah
22:57.48brlcadstill got some more to put into it, but it shows the tree walking and getting external
22:58.01tegtmeyesweet!
22:58.14brlcadi still have to have the client form the connection, send to remote, and reform an in-memory-only .g
23:03.22``Erik*burp*
23:05.03tegtmeyeny idea on the cosines?
23:07.19*** join/#brlcad polyspin (n=butler@bz.bzflag.bz)
23:07.23brlcadnot sure what's mean by the dir cosigns comment
23:07.25brlcadmaybe he does
23:07.44tegtmeyewho?
23:07.59brlcadthe one that just joined ;)
23:08.10polyspinevening all
23:08.21brlcadhowdy
23:08.42polyspinWhat's this about dir cosines?
23:08.51brlcadpolyspin: a_ray.r_dirIUNIT VECTOR with direction to fire in (dir cosines)
23:09.03brlcadapp structure, the ray
23:11.07polyspinThis looks like a lame attempt at saying the vector is/will-be a unit length vector
23:11.21CIA-5BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/gtools/g_transfer.c: instead of two separate hook funcs, just use send_to_server() for both the specified geometry case and the non-specified geometry case.
23:11.53brlcader, ray structure, not app
23:12.09polyspinIf the vector is unit length, then the tuple gives the cosines of the angles in each of X, Y, Z
23:12.19polyspinraytrace.h right?
23:12.27brlcadyeah, it's a comment for the structure
23:12.28tegtmeyeyea
23:13.35polyspinSo for example, a vector at exactly 45deg from each axis would be 0.707, 0.707, 0.707
23:13.51tegtmeyeahhhh....
23:13.53polyspinWhich happens to be 0.707 = cos(45)
23:16.04``Erikheh
23:16.10tegtmeyecos 270 == cos 90 == 0
23:16.28tegtmeyehow do you define which way your looking on x axis?
23:16.42tegtmeyeI'm a little lost
23:16.49polyspinThe sign on the value.
23:17.02tegtmeye+0 vs -0 ??
23:17.07polyspinAgain, it's really just a unit length vector.  Mike M was trying to be cute.
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23:18.27polyspinoops.  Back again
23:30.24polyspinbrlcad:  Any idea when head will build again?
23:51.28brlcadoop
23:51.30brlcadhe left
23:53.36``Erikheh
23:54.21pra5adthe pain
23:54.25pra5ad=(
23:54.28``Erikthe puss
23:54.58``Erikme, too
23:56.53pra5addid either of u goto the 'one million particle particle system' presentation at siggraph?
23:57.09brlcadsounds familiar
23:57.20brlcaddone on the card iirc?
23:57.27pra5adyea
23:57.36pra5ad1024^2 texture + fragment shader
23:58.21pra5adimpractical in real world use
23:58.26pra5adbut impressive nonetheless
23:58.38pra5ads/impressive/ingenious/
23:58.47pra5ad:o
23:59.45archivistwhat else has the bot up its sleeve
23:59.45pra5adwoops
23:59.51pra5adtwas at gdc
Jeff Waugh - find it at freshmeat.net! Modified by Tim Riker to work with blootbot logs, split per channel, etc. irclog2html for #brlcad on 20060110

irclog2html for #brlcad on 20060110

00:00.56brlcadsiggrah had it too
00:01.26brlcadwoot, surface continues on sci fi
00:07.17pra5ad``Erik, uve seen ghost in the shell right?
00:07.59``Erikyes
00:08.41pra5adso, ive upgraded my 'bot' idea to build a fuchikoma (when Twingy gets his shiznitz)
00:08.43pra5ad=)
00:09.54pra5adspeaking of gits, i gotta order stand alone complex 1&2
00:15.01pra5adhttp://img72.imageshack.us/img72/7648/wavetachikoma2pc.jpg
00:15.04pra5adheh plan for 1:1
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04:31.56fennweird i just watched gits2 last night
04:32.18fenntoo much cgi, but oh well
05:12.05CIA-5BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/gtools/g_transfer.c: libpkg is pretty cool. open a connnection from the client to the server using a really simple handshake protocol. client sends HELO, server listens for that HELO to distinguish valid clients from bogus connnections.
07:10.50CIA-5BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/gtools/g_transfer.c: yes, libpkg does rock. send the geometry to the server properly specifying callbacks for the different packet types. server gets a simple processing loop to read in the data and handle the packets.
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07:29.52CIA-5BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/gtools/g_transfer.c: free our buffers
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13:06.21``Erik1/det
13:24.26brlcad2x/dt
13:59.02``Erikheh
13:59.34``Erikthat was a 1 in my buffer (probably from cmd+1 with no window #1), then an attempt at "/det", tardmonkey :D
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16:18.42cad931hi all
18:09.03*** join/#brlcad ibot (i=ibot@pdpc/supporter/active/TimRiker/bot/apt)
18:09.03*** topic/#brlcad is http://brlcad.org/ || BRL-CAD is now Free Software! || BRL-CAD Windows port has been merged to HEAD, not yet stable yet || December/January is a unified iteration to allow time for holidays || Archer is now on head, kick the tires, report any bugs
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21:15.01*** part/#brlcad pier (n=pier@151.56.220.10)
22:34.58CIA-2BRL-CAD: 03bob1961 * 10brlcad/src/tclscripts/archer/CombEditFrame.tcl: Add better support for boolean editing and shader editing. More mods to follow.
22:36.27CIA-2BRL-CAD: 03bob1961 * 10brlcad/src/tclscripts/archer/ShaderEdit.tcl: Initial check-in
22:38.34CIA-2BRL-CAD: 03bob1961 * 10brlcad/src/tclscripts/archer/Archer.tcl: Add the following methods: packTree, unpackTree and unpackTreeGuts
22:39.40CIA-2BRL-CAD: 03bob1961 * 10brlcad/src/tclscripts/archer/tclIndex: Update index
22:41.11CIA-2BRL-CAD: 03bob1961 * 10brlcad/src/tclscripts/archer/GeometryEditFrame.tcl: Mods to NOT use Scrolledframe
Jeff Waugh - find it at freshmeat.net! Modified by Tim Riker to work with blootbot logs, split per channel, etc. irclog2html for #brlcad on 20060111

irclog2html for #brlcad on 20060111

00:32.47*** join/#brlcad AchiestDragon (n=dave@whipy.demon.co.uk)
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01:29.57``Eriko.O
01:30.17``Erik<-- munches his frozen food
01:30.19``Erikwhere is it?
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03:53.43brlcad``Erik: across from the Walmart on 40
04:09.22pra5adis there a good oss quicken/m$ money variant?
04:09.53brlcademacs
04:36.50justin_bc
04:46.21``Erikgnucash
05:02.14phcoderis that what you use justin_?
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05:10.56Maloeran"gnucash" sure has an interesting ring to it
05:11.30phcoder_g'night all
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09:58.15giuSerpehi all
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15:34.32CIA-4BRL-CAD: 03bob1961 * 10brlcad/src/tclscripts/archer/Archer.tcl: The edit panels are no longer using Scrolledframes. Modify _select_node method to always update the edit panel. _reset_edit no longer calls _refresh_tree
16:35.01CIA-4BRL-CAD: 03bob1961 * 10brlcad/src/tclscripts/archer/ShaderEdit.tcl: Arrange to call the shader changed callback when editing the shader form.
16:37.03CIA-4BRL-CAD: 03bob1961 * 10brlcad/src/tclscripts/archer/Archer.tcl: Modify the _apply_edit method to not call _refresh_tree.
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17:31.40pierHi everybody
17:34.52pierI wondered if anyone could explain, or provide the place where to find some more detailed information about instanceing rather then copying a comb group pf objects in brlcad. Thanks :)
17:37.44piersorry! I meant referencing objects
18:13.21brlcadpier: sure
18:15.11pierhi brlcad
18:15.24clock_brlcad: I would like to know as well
18:15.24pieris the doms over?
18:15.38clock_brlcad: I always do it in a way from which brlcad segfaults
18:16.14brlcadclock_: your method is specifically a bug ;)
18:16.28brlcadmultiply referencing the same object in one combination
18:17.00brlcadshould work, but isn't common practice and apparently mged isn't behaving right when you do that (though raytracing has no problem with it)
18:17.04clock_brlcad: is my method a bug of itself or is my method a bug of brlcad?
18:17.16clock_brlcad: but how should I do it?
18:17.49clock_brlcad: can you propose another method that is as simple as the one I use, and doesn't segfault mged?
18:17.56clock_brlcad: btw is this segfault already fixed?
18:19.11brlcadclock_: i don't think your method is a bug in itself, seems reasonable to union an object N times and apply a different matrix to each
18:19.23brlcadthe bug is just an assumption that mged is making
18:19.29brlcadyet the libraries are "doing the right thing"
18:19.40brlcadhence why rt is right
18:19.41clock_brlcad: so it isn't fixed yet?
18:19.50clock_brlcad: do you have a bugreport from me about the bug?
18:19.56brlcadyes, I do
18:20.03brlcadit's not fixed yet
18:20.13brlcadhaven't tracked it down in mged
18:20.16clock_brlcad: do you plan to fix it?
18:20.21brlcadyes
18:20.22clock_brlcad: can you reproduce it?
18:20.26brlcadyes
18:20.50clock_hmm I could fix it myself
18:20.53clock_if I had time
18:22.04clock_if it's not a delayed memory corruption then it's probably trivial to fix
18:23.08brlcadthe problem itself is pretty easy to understand, not so sure about the easiest way to fix
18:23.49brlcadwhen you go to apply a matrix, mged doesn't/didn't keep track of which /path/to/geometry you selected when you had multiple 'geometry' in your 'to' object
18:23.58brlcadso it always applies to the first
18:24.10brlcadeventually, that causes something to go awry in the display manager iirc
18:25.15brlcadshould just be a matter of adding an index or reference ID so you know which instance you're referring to
18:26.19brlcadpier: to answer your question, place the objects you want to reference in a combination, and simply refer to that combination by name in other places
18:26.53brlcadevery time you use an object in a combination/region, it's by named reference
18:27.15piersay I made a gusset with several holes and made a region of it
18:27.16brlcadit's only when you create a shallow or deep copy that something becomes duplicated
18:27.26brlcadaha.. heh
18:27.32brlcadsame case as what clock was trying ;)
18:28.04pierand I need 16 of them
18:28.12brlcadbizzare that we never ran into that problem here
18:28.49brlcadpier, basically you make a template combination for a single hole
18:29.01piercp-ing all the holes and plates looks the hard way to get the whole thing done
18:30.08pier... how do I do that?
18:30.17pierI mean a template
18:30.24brlcadyou shouldn't need to copy the whole thing, you just need to copy the one combination so you have unique names
18:30.49pierreally??? Is it as simple as that?
18:30.50brlcadto make a "template", it's just a regular combination
18:31.09pierI'll try it right away
18:31.10brlcadeven if you have to wrap one combination into another to abstract it
18:31.26brlcadthen copy that wrapper, move it wherever
18:31.33pierwill a region do?
18:31.38pieras well
18:31.47brlcadit's SUPPOSED to work without needing unique names, but clock_ did find a bug in that regard
18:31.55brlcada region will work just as well
18:32.03brlcadthough you will have to be careful of overlaps
18:32.29brlcadremember that a region is meant to distinguish something that occupies physical space
18:32.44pierat the moment I drew a plate and extruded it
18:32.45brlcadwhereas a combination is just a grouping
18:32.54pierok I got it
18:33.17brlcadin pro/e or unigraphics lingo -- a brl-cad region is a part
18:33.35brlcadcombinations below a region are just csg operations
18:33.43pier... used to use solid edge / works
18:33.44brlcadcombinations above a region would be an assembly
18:34.02brlcadsame thing in solidworks
18:34.14pierok
18:34.48pierso making cp piastra1.r piastra2.r is supposed to work
18:34.53brlcadi only mention it as most people don't correctly understand combinations for a while ;)
18:35.00brlcadsure
18:35.21brlcadthat will only copy the references in piastra1.r
18:35.33brlcadso piastra2.r is referencing the same objects
18:36.21brlcadthere's a different cp to make a deep copy that actually creates copies of everything underneath piastra1.r
18:36.46pierok done.. now the point is ..how do I move the second?
18:36.59brlcadapply a matrix to it
18:37.10pierlord I'm so slow..
18:37.19brlcadgui method, matrix edit on edit menu
18:37.36brlcadselect any of the primitives in the list that are in the copy
18:37.37pierok I'll go back to the man page to see what a matrix is...
18:38.13brlcadno need
18:38.33brlcadit's a mathematical matrix
18:38.45brlcadthat basically describes how to correctly orient and position the object
18:38.49brlcadamong other things
18:39.10pierin the menu appears the list of all the sigle shapes
18:39.12brlcadso every time you rotate something, or move it, or scale it, etc .. that's a change to some matrix
18:39.20brlcadyes
18:39.28brlcadpick any of them that say piastra2.r
18:39.36brlcadthen you'll get a second menu
18:39.42brlcadpick piastra2.r
18:40.07brlcadthen any edit operation will apply directly to piastra2.r
18:40.08pierthat's why I got to a halt .... I was afraid of clicking on a single voice and doing a mess of it
18:40.25brlcadno danger yet :)
18:40.36brlcadyou can always 'reject' when you're in edit mode
18:41.18pierthere's no region... in the list
18:41.19brlcadso if you think you screwed up, try typeing the 'reject' command into the cmd window, or select Reject on the edit menu (only necessary when you're in edit mode)
18:41.50brlcader, what's your list?
18:42.23pierclicking menu->matrix sel
18:42.30brlcadit should be a list like /piastra2.r/someobject/blah  /piastra2.r/someobject2/blah  /piastra1.r/someobject/blah  /piastra1.r/someobject2.blah
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18:42.49pieryep
18:43.00piershapes
18:43.16brlcadyes, pick _any_ that say piastra2.r
18:43.19pierand extruded object
18:43.21pierok
18:43.37brlcadi.e. your copy that you want to move
18:43.44pierok I double clicked and blam a second menu
18:44.05brlcadthen on the next list, pick piastra2.r if that's what you want to move
18:44.31pierok ok
18:44.33brlcadnote that the others in the list would let you apply a transformation to something inside piastra2.r without affecting piastra1.r too
18:44.42piernow it's smooth
18:45.12brlcadyes, the interface is a little counter-intuitive since you select a primitive first
18:45.24pierLord I made hundreds of damned holes in this machine
18:45.26brlcadthere was a reason for it a long time ago.. ;)
18:45.46brlcadthere's also a pattern tool for replicating objects ;)
18:46.02pieran hard copy of them
18:46.23pierthat not hinerit the properties of the father
18:46.52brlcadahh ;)
18:47.30pierI mean the pencil that is not sharpened :)
18:48.18pierpage 19 VOL III
18:48.57pierwhat is the way?
18:49.12pierto replicate a comb?
19:19.28CIA-4BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/librt/db_open.c: prevent a segfault if caller provides a null mode to db_open()
19:20.06CIA-4BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/librt/dir.c: init mat to NULL before checking if it's null.
19:21.50brlcadthere is no pencil on page 19 of vol III
19:22.01brlcadit's a helicopter
19:22.12brlcadmaybe you mean vol IV
19:22.25brlcader, II
19:23.39pierlast but fourth line
19:23.53brlcadahh
19:24.06pier:)
19:25.03pierbrlcad: does p 0 180 0 work with matrix rotation?
19:25.23pierfor a 180 deg rot round Y axes
19:25.58brlcadp is relative adjustments for whatever edit operation is selected
19:26.27brlcadso that would rotate 180 degrees about the Y axis
19:26.48pierit works with shapes but returns an error with matrix rotation
19:26.57brlcadif you wanted to rotate, translate, or scale absolute instead of relatively, you'd use the rot, tra, and sca commands instead
19:27.31pierwithout checking the proper box in the mged graph win
19:28.45piergas! it worked
19:29.58``ErikO.o
19:30.20brlcadheh
19:30.28pier? breaks the winds?
19:30.41brlcadpier: rot and orot commands for relative/absolute for objects
19:31.00pierthanks a lot for the help
19:31.02brlcadp is for editing parameters to pritives, my bad ;)
19:32.02brlcadpier: do you understand the difference between figure 10 and figure 11?
19:32.23piermmmh oral test..
19:32.24brlcadusually you just use the method in figure 11
19:34.02pierreferencing allows to make any altering to the prototype to be immediately transferred to the referred objects
19:34.26brlcadit's not that it's "transferred", it's that they are actually all referring to the same thing
19:35.00brlcadjust how you respond to both "pier" and "Pierpaolo" .. they are both references to the "real you"
19:35.15piera matrix would represent just the coordinates of the referred new objects along with the rotations  
19:35.27brlcadso if the "real you" changes, so do "pier" and "Pierpaolo"
19:35.33pierok ok
19:36.06brlcadright, the matrix just orients the object in space
19:37.36pierthat was what I meant about sharpening just one pencil (the original) and getting the other imediately sharpened... they are just images of the same real object (with material properties?)
19:38.10brlcadright
19:38.17brlcadcept not necessarily with material properties
19:38.23pierok
19:38.29brlcadthat depends where you've applied material properties
19:38.41piercan be changed?
19:38.42brlcadif your template is a region with material propertis, then yes, it'll inherit them
19:38.48pierok
19:38.59brlcadif it's just a generic object with no properties, then there's nothing to inherint
19:39.07pierwhereas a comb has no mat prop
19:39.44brlcadintrinsically, it's just a grouping
19:39.57brlcadthough the edit will let you apply shader parameters
19:40.05brlcads/edit/editor/
19:40.16brlcadgrr
19:40.18brlcadibot shut up
19:40.19ibotyes, Master brlcad
19:41.06pierbrlcad: you are a very good teacher if you are able to teach me these things (rather complicated things)
19:41.31clock_brlcad: is it AI or what that it can understand English language and even correct it?
19:42.24brlcadclock_: neither
19:42.51brlcads/blah1/blah2/ means "substitute the blah1 in what I just said with blah2"
19:43.38brlcadibot is just recognizing the s///, then finding a match in my previous line, then blabbing
19:43.46brlcadrelatively new feature, not fond of it really
19:44.10pieris there a project for translating the manual in other languages?
19:44.30brlcadthere is not, though there have been one or two very interested
19:44.54brlcadi'd like to get them converted from their current form to docbook sometime
19:45.03brlcadthen get translations of the docbook for various languages
19:45.36brlcadright now it's pdf and msword (yes, the original is actually msword, bleh)
19:45.49brlcad(wasn't me!) ;)
19:46.06pierok so if any help is needed I would like to volunteer
19:46.16brlcadexcellent
19:46.20piertex would be fine?
19:46.22brlcaddo you know docbook? :)
19:46.34brlcador willing to learn it
19:46.42pierI'll have to have a look round the web
19:46.43brlcadtex would be a distant second preference
19:47.05pierheard about it quite a lot recently
19:47.06brlcaddocbook has a much better separation of content and style
19:47.38brlcadit's easier to deal with docbook when you see examples
19:48.04brlcade.g. if you check out the gforge sources on gforge.org, their documentation is in docbook form
19:48.45brlcadthe linuxdoc is/was primarily docbook as their main format as well for all linux documentation (manpages, howtos, faqs, etc)
19:49.14pierok
19:49.41brlcadcould maybe even start with something more simple like converting one of the manpages to docbook (like rt's)
19:49.52pierdoes Norman Walsh happen to be the one of the tcl-tk book?
19:50.50piernone it was Welsh
19:51.02brlcadah, yeah
19:51.03pierok I'll have a go with it
19:51.04brlcadDan Welsh
19:51.36pierrt man page?
19:53.36brlcadthere are manpages for most of the commands
19:53.41brlcadman rt
19:53.49brlcadif you've set up your system MANPATH
19:53.55brlcadif not, try "brlman rt"
19:54.43pierman rt work fine
19:54.47pierworks
19:56.02brlcadpier: here's a starter
19:56.03brlcadhttp://opensource.bureau-cornavin.com/crash-course/
19:57.31piergreat
19:59.58brlcadhere's a decent example of a rather extensive xml document for the gforge project:  http://gforge.org/plugins/scmcvs/cvsweb.php/gforge/docs/docbook/docbook/?cvsroot=gforge
20:00.10brlcadxml docbook document, that is
20:00.34brlcad(select the rev number, e.g. 1.1, not the file name)
20:03.32pierdamit... last week I missed a refresher course at school about XML... I didn't think it could come in handy
20:04.29joevalleyfieldthey rarely teach docbook (document) style XML,  they usually teach it for data exchange
20:04.56joevalleyfieldso chances are what you missed isn't too applicable
20:05.20pierok
20:05.48pierlooks like html
20:05.52piera bit
20:06.18joevalleyfieldit's really similar to xhtml2, if that's out yet
20:07.13joevalleyfieldyou tend to mark up nested groupings if logically related material
20:07.39joevalleyfields/if/of/
20:13.56brlcadjoevalleyfield: is that what you really meant? :)
20:17.14``Erikwindows sucks and blows, both in most unpleaseant ways
20:19.32pieramazing: Even if you have never used either DocBook or other markup languages (like LinuxDoc) before, you should be able to become proficient in it just by reading through this guide
20:19.53joevalleyfieldyou told it to shutup ;)
20:35.02pierso the path would be: 1)getting aquainted with docbook 2) pouring the translated text in the new form namefile.docbook
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20:43.50pierIs docbook-sgml the packege needed for this purpose?
20:45.40pierver 4.4
20:50.59CIA-4BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/librt/dir.c: heh, wrong line and bad syntax.. never mind
20:53.58brlcadpier: yes and sure
20:54.12brlcadthough i'd give the docbook-xml a stab first
20:54.55pierok then I'll download it too
20:55.02brlcadthat way the file will actually render and work with existing xml tools too, even most browsers support some rudimentary xml markup
20:55.48pierok then
21:05.06pierdownloaded dsssl version too.... haven't the slightest idea what that is but what the hell...
21:05.59piernight to everybody and thanks for the help... hope to be able to return sooner or later the kind help
21:07.24joevalleyfielddsssl is predecessor to xsl
21:07.32joevalleyfieldits scheme based
21:07.41joevalleyfieldif you're into (((( instead of <<<
21:08.33pierthank you very much joe (yet it's all greek to me :) )
21:09.15piergot to get down with the tutorial first
21:09.21joevalleyfieldglad you're looking at it pier
21:10.22brlcadworking on docs is generally pretty high visibility stuff, and very appreciated..
21:11.15brlcadI forget the exact numbers, but the last time I processed the web logs it was in the high thousands, like 10 or 20k downloads of the tutorials, etc
21:11.29brlcadand that was many many months ago now
21:12.13pierYes I agree... it's the best way to spread out a good job
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21:14.10pierwork
21:15.51*** part/#brlcad pier (n=pier@151.56.239.49)
21:19.10``Erikmaybe I should look into dsssl o.O
21:19.27joevalleyfieldare you a lisp lover, eric???
21:19.30joevalleyfielddon't do it
21:19.36``Erikyeah, actually, of the scheme variety
21:19.37``Erikheh
21:20.04``Erik*woops* :)
21:20.20joevalleyfield:)
21:20.36``Erik(also, if you look at the freebsd ports, my name is attached to like half of the scheme related ones)
21:20.51joevalleyfielddoesn't scheme natively have continuations?
21:21.00``Erikyes
21:21.13``Erikfirst order
21:21.27``Erikcall-with-current-continuation is the spec name, but most impl's have call/cc as a shortcut
21:22.27``Erik(guile is one of the very few that don't have the shortcut)
21:24.42CIA-4BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/librt/db_open.c: remove dead init line, dbi_eof is set to something else two lines after.
21:24.44*** topic/#brlcad by brlcad -> http://brlcad.org/ || BRL-CAD is now Free Software! || BRL-CAD Windows port has been merged to HEAD, not yet stable yet || December/January is a unified iteration to allow time for holidays || Archer is now on
21:24.48brlcad<PROTECTED>
21:24.49brlcadoop
21:26.19*** topic/#brlcad by brlcad -> http://brlcad.org/ || BRL-CAD is now Free Software! || BRL-CAD Windows port has been merged to HEAD, not yet stable yet || Archer is now on HEAD as well, kick the tires, report any bugs || there WILL be a 7.6.8 released ASAP for January after all
21:26.48brlcad``Erik: if you need mods for 7.6.6 building in ports, lemme know and they can get into 7.6.8
21:27.01brlcade.g. the iwidgets test
21:27.02``ErikI've already commited them
21:27.05brlcadit won't be the stuff on head
21:27.14brlcadah, okay, i'll try to find them
21:27.42brlcador you can commit them to the rel-7-6-branch too
21:28.00``Erikjust a second...
21:29.17``Erikconfigure.ac has some tests and src/liboptical/Makefile.am has that hack we discussed that breaks aix supposedly
21:30.28``ErikI believe that's it
21:30.35``ErikI can mfc them if you want
21:31.23``ErikI'm not convinced that the C will allow an outisde itcl/itck/iwidget impl  yet
21:31.51``Erik(that's what I was looking into when justin rebooted the minicluster)
21:31.59``Erikand fuck my arm hurts
21:37.20``Erikgrrrrrr, I think justin justin just rebooted it again
21:38.05``Erikmv reboot reboot.orig ; echo "#!/bin/sh\necho Don't do that" > reboot
21:38.07``Eriko.O
21:44.46*** join/#brlcad AchiestDragon (n=dave@whipy.demon.co.uk)
21:54.25``Erikor mebbe it crashed, heh
22:11.53CIA-4BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/librt/db5_io.c: correctly free our allocated resources in db5_fwrite_ident() even on fatal error by stashing the result.
22:19.45joevalleyfielddiff -I is my new best friend
22:20.28*** join/#brlcad DTRemenak (n=DTRemena@DHCP-170-143.caltech.edu)
22:20.51brlcad``Erik: nah, he keeps causing the crash
22:21.50*** join/#brlcad PrezKennedy (n=Apathy@pcp010175pcs.dover01.de.comcast.net)
22:23.13brlcadjoevalleyfield: heh
22:26.08PrezKennedydigg.com is turning into a vigilante website
22:26.22PrezKennedy"omg letz haxxor or DDNS anyone who does something wrong online"
22:26.29PrezKennedy*DDOS
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22:43.35CIA-4BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/librt/db_open.c: clean up db_create()'s logic considerably. annoyingly, the version check for writing out the ident can't go away since db_fwrite_ident() has no means to determine the version (need some wrapper interface)
22:45.59CIA-4BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/librt/db_io.c: ws
22:52.36joevalleyfieldwhoa
23:02.29``Erikget a private room, geez
23:54.08``Erikheh
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Jeff Waugh - find it at freshmeat.net! Modified by Tim Riker to work with blootbot logs, split per channel, etc. irclog2html for #brlcad on 20060112

irclog2html for #brlcad on 20060112

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01:34.34CIA-4BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/libpkg/pkg.c: quell braindead compiler warning on altix where strerror_r is declared to return a char * (gnu glibc extension) instead of an int (posix, bsd, c89, svid3) like it's supposed to.
01:40.14CIA-4BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/gtools/g_transfer.c:
01:40.15CIA-4BRL-CAD: begin initial support for creating an in-memory geometry database (routines will
01:40.15CIA-4BRL-CAD: likely move into librt, but here for now for simplicity (db_open_inmem() and
01:40.15CIA-4BRL-CAD: db_create_inmem()). also send the length of each object over the wire as an
01:40.15CIA-4BRL-CAD: ascii string for simplicity so we can easily restore the bu_external structure
01:40.15CIA-4BRL-CAD: without going through hoops. add an rt_init_resource() call for convenience
01:40.17CIA-4BRL-CAD: until the next release since db_open() is bugged on earlier versions.
04:37.37pra5adjustin's next project
04:37.40pra5adhttp://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=6943201001782160188
04:56.19CIA-4BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/TODO: add callback data parameteres to libpkg hook functions so one doesn't have to use global data
05:40.18``Erikhttp://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=2899771876757809023&q=funny
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01:34.34CIA-4BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/libpkg/pkg.c: quell braindead compiler warning on altix where strerror_r is declared to return a char * (gnu glibc extension) instead of an int (posix, bsd, c89, svid3) like it's supposed to.
01:40.14CIA-4BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/gtools/g_transfer.c:
01:40.15CIA-4BRL-CAD: begin initial support for creating an in-memory geometry database (routines will
01:40.15CIA-4BRL-CAD: likely move into librt, but here for now for simplicity (db_open_inmem() and
01:40.15CIA-4BRL-CAD: db_create_inmem()). also send the length of each object over the wire as an
01:40.15CIA-4BRL-CAD: ascii string for simplicity so we can easily restore the bu_external structure
01:40.15CIA-4BRL-CAD: without going through hoops. add an rt_init_resource() call for convenience
01:40.17CIA-4BRL-CAD: until the next release since db_open() is bugged on earlier versions.
04:37.37pra5adjustin's next project
04:37.40pra5adhttp://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=6943201001782160188
04:56.19CIA-4BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/TODO: add callback data parameteres to libpkg hook functions so one doesn't have to use global data
05:40.18``Erikhttp://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=2899771876757809023&q=funny
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15:30.41IngManHi when get documentation about nirt
15:32.05brlcadwhen?
15:32.11brlcadwhenever you want :)
15:32.20brlcadman nirt
15:33.37IngManmore documentation, that man(mas documentacion que no sea man)
15:40.07brlcadah, que no sea man.. hmmmm
15:40.28brlcadquiza..
15:41.52IngManexacto
15:46.22brlcadhaven't found anything, i'll have to ask around pero creo que no
15:46.37brlcadtienes alguna pregunta sobre como usarlo?
15:46.59brlcadcan be used both interactively and non-interactively
15:47.49clock_brlcad: is is spanish?
15:48.38CIA-12BRL-CAD: 03bob1961 * 10brlcad/src/conv/g-stl.c: The -i option doesn't take an argument.
15:48.53IngManEres tu  morrison
15:50.49brlcadsi
15:51.33IngManTe acuerdas que te conte que estoy haciendo un manual en español
15:52.44IngManqueria hablar de como acotar o tener informacion del modelo que estas haciendo, y creo que nirt hace eso
15:53.00brlcadpor supuesto
15:53.51IngManque se puede decir de nirt
15:54.09IngManla verdad aun no entiendo muy bien como funciona
15:54.15brlcadperate..
15:56.09IngManhoy estoy medio dormido si te dista cuenta, when???? por decir donde
16:06.43brlcadIngMan: tengo que irme pero ahorita quiero seguir esa conversacion
16:07.28brlcader, s/pero ahorita/ahorita, pero../
16:07.53IngMancuanto es ahorarita
16:08.00brlcadya ;)
16:08.43brlcadregreso en como una hora y algo
16:08.48IngManno tengo mucho tiempo
16:09.23brlcadesta bien, podemos hablar luego? mañana?
16:09.40IngManpor eso cuando puedes
16:09.46brlcadok
16:11.15IngMandentro de cuanto puedes
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01:34.34CIA-4BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/libpkg/pkg.c: quell braindead compiler warning on altix where strerror_r is declared to return a char * (gnu glibc extension) instead of an int (posix, bsd, c89, svid3) like it's supposed to.
01:40.14CIA-4BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/gtools/g_transfer.c:
01:40.15CIA-4BRL-CAD: begin initial support for creating an in-memory geometry database (routines will
01:40.15CIA-4BRL-CAD: likely move into librt, but here for now for simplicity (db_open_inmem() and
01:40.15CIA-4BRL-CAD: db_create_inmem()). also send the length of each object over the wire as an
01:40.15CIA-4BRL-CAD: ascii string for simplicity so we can easily restore the bu_external structure
01:40.15CIA-4BRL-CAD: without going through hoops. add an rt_init_resource() call for convenience
01:40.17CIA-4BRL-CAD: until the next release since db_open() is bugged on earlier versions.
04:37.37pra5adjustin's next project
04:37.40pra5adhttp://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=6943201001782160188
04:56.19CIA-4BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/TODO: add callback data parameteres to libpkg hook functions so one doesn't have to use global data
05:40.18``Erikhttp://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=2899771876757809023&q=funny
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15:30.41IngManHi when get documentation about nirt
15:32.05brlcadwhen?
15:32.11brlcadwhenever you want :)
15:32.20brlcadman nirt
15:33.37IngManmore documentation, that man(mas documentacion que no sea man)
15:40.07brlcadah, que no sea man.. hmmmm
15:40.28brlcadquiza..
15:41.52IngManexacto
15:46.22brlcadhaven't found anything, i'll have to ask around pero creo que no
15:46.37brlcadtienes alguna pregunta sobre como usarlo?
15:46.59brlcadcan be used both interactively and non-interactively
15:47.49clock_brlcad: is is spanish?
15:48.38CIA-12BRL-CAD: 03bob1961 * 10brlcad/src/conv/g-stl.c: The -i option doesn't take an argument.
15:48.53IngManEres tu  morrison
15:50.49brlcadsi
15:51.33IngManTe acuerdas que te conte que estoy haciendo un manual en español
15:52.44IngManqueria hablar de como acotar o tener informacion del modelo que estas haciendo, y creo que nirt hace eso
15:53.00brlcadpor supuesto
15:53.51IngManque se puede decir de nirt
15:54.09IngManla verdad aun no entiendo muy bien como funciona
15:54.15brlcadperate..
15:56.09IngManhoy estoy medio dormido si te dista cuenta, when???? por decir donde
16:06.43brlcadIngMan: tengo que irme pero ahorita quiero seguir esa conversacion
16:07.28brlcader, s/pero ahorita/ahorita, pero../
16:07.53IngMancuanto es ahorarita
16:08.00brlcadya ;)
16:08.43brlcadregreso en como una hora y algo
16:08.48IngManno tengo mucho tiempo
16:09.23brlcadesta bien, podemos hablar luego? mañana?
16:09.40IngManpor eso cuando puedes
16:09.46brlcadok
16:11.15IngMandentro de cuanto puedes
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21:02.29CIA-6BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/other/blt/src/ (5 files): apply blt2.4z-patch-2
21:03.54CIA-6BRL-CAD: 03bob1961 * 10brlcad/src/tclscripts/archer/Archer.tcl: Add the ability to toggle display of primitive labels.
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23:32.31CIA-6BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/other/libtcl/ (Makefile.am generic/Makefile.am unix/Makefile.am): move the AM_CPPFLAGS up to the top
23:34.07CIA-6BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/other/blt/src/bltConfig.h: just make blt use brl-cad's common.h for config.h results
23:36.02CIA-6BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/other/blt/Makefile.am: shouldn't need module, don't link the tk sources
23:37.13CIA-6BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/other/blt/src/Makefile.am: shouldn't need module or static for this library, move CPPHEADERS to the top, don't install the blt config.h files, install the rest of the headers
23:42.23CIA-6BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/configure.ac: (log message trimmed)
23:42.23CIA-6BRL-CAD: fix AND improve the adrt checks. some variables had changed (making them wrong)
23:42.23CIA-6BRL-CAD: for testing sdl/python; they're now fixed. add an --enable-adrt option that is
23:42.23CIA-6BRL-CAD: coupled to the --with-sdl and --with-python options including all the additional
23:42.23CIA-6BRL-CAD: checks for making sure all the various combinations make sense or output
23:42.24CIA-6BRL-CAD: messages or abort. before doing any BC_RETRY_CONFIGURE, output a message as to
23:42.26CIA-6BRL-CAD: why we are retrying. sdl test only needs to check for sdl-config if sdl is
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23:47.04tegtmeyejustin wake up
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Jeff Waugh - find it at freshmeat.net! Modified by Tim Riker to work with blootbot logs, split per channel, etc. irclog2html for #brlcad on 20060113

irclog2html for #brlcad on 20060113

00:03.42justin_hey
00:04.44tegtmeyeI have it!!!
00:04.56tegtmeyeWith equations
00:05.30justin_oh? :)
00:05.37justin_msg me
00:05.38pra5ado.0?
00:05.48tegtmeyeWe are both right
00:05.54tegtmeyeI'm on the we client
00:05.58tegtmeyeweb
00:06.26justin_did you see that?
00:06.35tegtmeyeo
00:06.37tegtmeyeno
00:06.41justin_ah, k
00:06.52justin_well, if you just wanna wait until you get home, that's cool
00:07.19tegtmeyesomeplace better to talk?
00:07.48justin_try #lair
00:09.23justin_?
00:09.43tegtmeyewhat would be a irc client that would be installed on irc besides bitchx?
00:11.01justin_huh?
00:11.11justin_installed on what?
00:11.18justin_do you want a shell on my box?
00:11.19tegtmeyered hat
00:11.23*** join/#brlcad docelic (n=docelic@clj34-71.dial-up.arnes.si)
00:11.31tegtmeyesure
00:11.31justin_you can't irc from work cmoputers
00:11.51justin_what do you want your user to be
00:12.02tegtmeyesame as here
00:12.28justin_tegtmeye or tegtmeyer?
00:12.41tegtmeyetegtmeye
00:14.14justin_ok
00:14.17justin_ssh js.cx
00:14.46tegtmeyeps?
00:14.58justin_hit enter
00:15.07tegtmeyenope
00:15.40justin_try 123
00:15.51tegtmeyek
00:15.57justin_k, change it
00:16.25tegtmeyeok
00:16.33justin_k
00:16.35justin_BitchX is there
00:16.42tegtmeyegot it
00:16.48justin_BitchX adams.freenode.net or something
00:18.07tegtmeyesnore...
00:18.11justin_heh
00:18.25tegtmeyeprocessing...processing...
00:19.09tegtmeyemust be that wireless:)
00:19.22justin_heh
00:19.34justin_or that I'm not running indent
00:19.36justin_err identd
00:20.02justin_does it say you're connecting to a freenode networking?
00:20.09justin_or atleast established a connection?
00:20.20tegtmeyeyea, stuck after mode change
00:20.31justin_k, give it another minute
00:20.43tegtmeyedude, I'll just hop on from home
00:20.48tegtmeyegive me an hour
00:20.49justin_ok
00:20.51justin_no prob
00:21.02justin_draw a digram
00:21.08tegtmeyetry the drill thing, it is part of the solution
00:21.12justin_k
00:21.33tegtmeyelater
00:32.12``Erik*yawn*
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01:26.58justin_hey
01:27.05justin_I *just* finished the tests
01:27.43tegtmeye<- plugs in Pbook...
01:27.48tegtmeyeso?
01:27.58tegtmeyegood news or bad
01:28.26justin_check your msgs
01:28.40tegtmeyemmm 2 day old Olive Tree...
01:29.21justin_well?
01:29.39tegtmeyegive me a min, still new to Bitchx...
01:29.51justin_it's ... irc :)
02:05.35``Erikmike: read up on "/win new" and "/win level", they're... handy... I can trim and gives you my .ircrc if you want o.O
02:05.43``Eriks/gives/give/
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02:06.40``Erikannoying noisy sed bots, w00t.
02:07.02brlcadyeah, relatively new feature that tim must have added
02:07.06brlcaddidn't used to do that
02:07.45``ErikI assume it's a scratch written bot, not based off of eggie or something?
02:08.00``Erik(which is the only tcl i'd ever touched before being exposed to brlcad o.O)
02:09.18brlcad~ibot
02:09.19ibotwell, ibot is a blootbot written in perl run by TimRiker on his server. logs on http://ibot.rikers.org/<chan>/ , ibot, jbot, apt are all the same process. It uses sqlite, but mysql or other SQL storage is also supported.
02:09.46brlcadGuu: guu
02:09.47Guuguu is hip and cool, baffuuuuuu
02:09.49Matt_2_now i can enjoy this conversation in black AND white
02:10.00brlcadguu: identify
02:10.01Guubrlcad: (identify <name> <password>) -- Identifies the user as <name>. This command (and all other commands that include a password) must be sent to the bot privately, not in a channel.
02:10.05brlcadblah
02:10.14brlcadguu: version
02:10.19Guubrlcad: The current (running) version of this Supybot is 0.80.0pre2.  The newest version available online is 0.83.1.
02:10.37``Erikboth of mine are eggies, heh
02:10.39brlcadso perl and python represent
02:10.46``ErikI've seen a couple scheme bots that look... quite enticing
02:10.58``Erikand you know me, I'm an ankle grabbing ho for anything scheme
02:11.03brlcadyep
02:11.11PrezKennedyincredible... the national weather service has a dense fog advisory
02:11.32brlcadsupybot has some incredibly interesting features, but a horrid user/auth/permissions system
02:12.24brlcadbloot is surprisingly practical and instantly useful -- ibot in particular as her database is pretty massive having been around for years
02:12.27``Erikheh, I'm still running old (1.3) eggies
02:17.32``Erikok, sean, spanglish question... 'mi hermano' means "my friend" in a masculine context... what would you call a chica?
02:20.38brlcadmi hermano literally means "my brother"
02:21.10``Erikahhhh
02:21.18``Erikso the correlary would be "my sister"?
02:21.18brlcadwhich in vernacular can be like "my bro" or "my homie" or "my buddy" etc
02:21.31``ErikO.o or is that a colloquial difference?
02:21.32brlcadyeah
02:21.39brlcadit is very much
02:22.00``Erikaight, thnx
02:22.05brlcadjust as colloquial as calling someone your bro is in english
02:22.28``Erikmaybe I should be learning spanglish instead of nippongo
02:22.56brlcad~translate en es maybe I should be learning spanglish instead of nippongo
02:23.15brlcadheh, wow -- that's actually not that bad
02:23.31``Erikheh
02:23.44PrezKennedy~translate es en que?
02:23.58brlcadheh
02:24.12``Erik!translate taco burrito supreme grande spaghetti
02:24.16``Erikdoh
02:24.24``Erikused to "bang" commands on bots
02:24.25``Erik:)
02:24.38brlcadthat would be guu, and she don't have the translate module right now
02:24.39``Erikmmm, beavis&butthead
02:25.05brlcad!who's your daddy?
02:25.19brlcador.. someone changed the prefix char
02:25.20PrezKennedy~translate es en fannybandit
02:25.36PrezKennedyguess my days of learning spanish from family guy are over
02:29.50PrezKennedyis it good?
02:41.03``Eriksena, your box is now debian, with everything running and ok (but httpd turned off), and the server is now all fbsd, with most of the functionality in place, duder
02:50.15``Erikheh, raiding?
02:52.28brlcadnew on walkabout
02:52.35brlcader, s/new/just/
02:53.52``Erikof course you know me and justin... I'm assuming you recognized alexis
02:54.14``Erikburger and andrew are in there
02:54.25``Erikchannel's a bit skinny right now
02:55.12brlcadjeesh, i can't type tonight
02:55.34``Erikheh
03:06.37pra5admiyazaki on tmc again
04:58.20MaloeranHi Sean, so you found the hiding place of Justin, Erik and I :), feel free to join the eternal debates about the future of graphical rendering
04:59.14learnerheh, not much of a hiding place if I find it just wandering around efnet ;)
05:01.26MaloeranEheh, we have been meeting there for the last few years, and Efnet's #opengl before then
05:02.03Maloeranfreenode's #opengl is much more alive, much more clueless too
05:08.16Maloeran*nods* Burga is an expert at that too
05:08.39``Erikburgers a d3d whoring winiot
05:09.01``ErikI actually helped someone yesterday, heh
05:09.25``ErikglColor3ui, geez, some people just make things unnecessarily hard on themselves
05:12.11pra5adhmm?
05:12.23pra5adwhats wrong with 3ui?
05:18.12MaloeranSomeone was passing 1.0f as parameter and wondering why everything was "black"
05:18.38pra5adah hehe
05:24.15pra5adnaussica and laputa subbed on right now
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15:10.53CIA-6BRL-CAD: 03bob1961 * 10brlcad/src/tclscripts/archer/Archer.tcl: Modify the packTree method to ignore malformed lines. Add call to _refresh_tree to _apply_edit and _reset_edit
15:13.07CIA-6BRL-CAD: 03bob1961 * 10brlcad/src/tclscripts/archer/ShaderEdit.tcl: Add code to possibly call the (-shaderChangedCallback) from the changedShader method.
15:16.09CIA-6BRL-CAD: 03bob1961 * 10brlcad/src/tclscripts/archer/images/aboutArcher.png: Update to 0.7.3
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18:18.23igotbsdhi everyone
18:21.03igotbsdjust installed brlcad on fbsd5.4-stable, but when i try to run mged from GUI i get this error Xlib: extension "GLX" missing on display "unix:0". apparently that's not the right value for the env. variable or is it? any help on this...
18:23.00joevalleyfieldyou might try the x display manager rather than the ogl one
18:23.50joevalleyfieldmged -c will give you a choice but you'll sacrifice some of the gui
18:24.06joevalleyfieldnot sure how to choose display manager in non-classic mode
18:25.00CIA-6BRL-CAD: 03bob1961 * 10brlcad/src/tclscripts/archer/Archer.tcl: Add better support for toggling display of primitive labels when Archer is embedded.
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18:30.59``Erikheh
18:31.06``Erikgantt chart chunk is refusing to work
18:31.30joevalleyfieldif that was my name, i'd go on strike too!
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19:21.27brlcadheh
19:45.27pierbrlcad....
19:46.11pierhad a look at the docbook crash course
20:11.18brlcadpier: excellent
20:11.19brlcadthoughts?
20:11.29pierwhat then?
20:11.40pierpick a man page and..
20:11.47brlcadsounds like something you think you could work on?
20:11.56brlcadyeah
20:12.01brlcadmaybe brlcad.1
20:12.03pieryou talked about rt man page
20:13.31brlcadonly because it's one of the most frequently requested
20:13.43brlcadyou could really pick any of them.. there are lots :)
20:13.44pierok
20:14.40pieronce I have translated the content is there a template I am supposed to follow?
20:16.10pierI mean.. in order to produce a dockbook document?
20:17.06brlcadnot really
20:17.58brlcadhave to consider how languages come into play across the entire package for making it easy to generate a set of documentation
20:18.20brlcadin docbook lingo, probably a collection of book, with several books being collections of articles
20:18.38brlcadi'd imagine the manpage is an article, though there might be better approaches
20:20.01pieris there a parallel project for multi lang where contributors can send files?
20:20.11brlcadthere is probably an overarching organization that will be needed if only to maintain the files, e.g. whether having the files spread out across the source tree is better than having them all inside of doc/
20:21.00brlcadand how to manage the different languages .. one dir per language at a high level?  no dirs and just designate with extensions?  one dir per dir with translations?
20:21.29pier:)
20:22.08pierwhy worrying about dirs and so on at this stage?
20:24.10pierperhaps a good point would be translating th group of 4 tomes and make them available through the BRLCAD site
20:24.35pierfor a starter....
20:26.18pierdid I say rubbish?
20:26.36brlcadnot worrying, just thinking aloud about long term
20:28.54piertranslating the manuals wouldn't take long... there's already a template to spoil and to take advatage of
20:28.56brlcadpier: oh good idea
20:29.04brlcadhow about starting with volume I
20:29.06brlcadit's short
20:29.16pierright away
20:29.17brlcadand already somewhat htmlified
20:29.26pier;)
20:30.05joevalleyfieldare man pages supposed to be <RefEntry/>s ?
20:31.04brlcadpier: http://brlcad.org/overview.html is volume I
20:31.09brlcadjoevalleyfield: are they?
20:31.20joevalleyfielddon't know about in the newest dtds
20:31.29brlcadoh, this looks useful: http://sourceforge.net/projects/man2docbook/
20:32.52brlcadand http://docbook2x.sourceforge.net/
20:32.55brlcadfor the reverse
20:33.04joevalleyfieldsweet
20:35.06pierThere are no file packages defined for this project.
20:36.56brlcadyeah.. looks like they never got past the requirements stage
20:37.16brlcadhttp://cvs.sourceforge.net/viewcvs.py/man2docbook/doc/req.txt?rev=1.1&view=auto
20:38.07brlcadhere's another http://www.xmlhack.com/read.php?item=1749
20:38.38brlcadhttp://www.catb.org/~esr/doclifter/
20:38.38joevalleyfieldand that one is a little more than vapor
20:41.26pierman -> docbook -> polishing ;) -> that's it
20:43.01brlcadheh, i remember when ESR ran this: http://www.catb.org/~esr/doclifter/problems.html
20:43.28brlcadnow I see it's all part of "project paradise"
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20:44.43joevalleyfieldb address is blocked :-D
20:46.38pierso brlcad... I'll start asap to translate vol 1
20:47.06brlcadpier: sounds great, look forward to seeing it
20:47.16pierwhere is the file to be sent
20:47.22brlcadbtw, what languages do you know? :)
20:49.07pier....Italiam :(
20:49.10piern
20:49.16brlcadi'd start by sending the file in as a patch, we can work on simplifying that part later
20:49.20brlcadah, excellent
20:50.10pierand some dialect from my own town which is quite incomprehensible :)
20:50.21pierso useless
20:51.36brlcadil mio amico sara' eccitato
20:51.51pier?
20:52.07piergoogle translator?
20:52.18brlcadheh, no
20:52.27pierin che senso?
20:52.32brlcadjust my bad italian
20:52.34pier:)
20:53.02brlcadil mio amico sarebbe contento di vederti
20:53.12brlcader, to see it
20:53.21pierI mean there is always a man's best friend and it is advisable not to be eccitato at work
20:53.30pier:)
20:53.34brlcadhehe, pues contento :)
20:53.42brlcadfelice
20:53.45piercongratulations!
20:53.53brlcadno eccitato ;)
20:54.00piernow it is better ;)
20:54.18brlcadyou never know.. might really be that excited ;)
20:54.30brlcadto have the docs in italian
20:55.26pierok then... I'll try and do my best
20:56.26brlcadno worries, even the english versions always need more work ;)
20:57.23pierit could be a good starting point in spreading such a great program
20:57.41brlcadi agree
20:58.51pierit would be a dirac-delta in the steepenig growing path
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21:06.01pierbrlcad hope the DOMS has gone and wish a great weekend to everybody (and great workouts too )
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21:15.52brlcadpier: DOMS?
21:16.05brlcad~doms
21:16.33brlcadsame to you, great weekend
21:17.10pierhttp://www.physsportsmed.com/issues/1999/01_99/muscle.htm
21:17.14pierbuonanotte
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21:20.24brlcadhah
21:21.32brlcadthat's a good link for pra5ad
21:22.40clock_does pra5ad have a lot of muscles?
21:23.05clock_I got brutal Document Object Model System from snowboarding :)
21:23.08brlcadheh
21:25.54clock_brlcad: today is Friday 13. Today's sunset was interesting - we took a picture: ronja.twibright.com/fri13.jpg
21:26.12brlcadooh, didn't realize that
21:26.23brlcadneat picture
21:26.56clock_brlcad: do you know the blair witch project?
21:27.02brlcadyep
21:27.08brlcadi've been in that park
21:27.10brlcadit's nice ;)
21:28.36brlcadin fact, I just biked through it on new years eve during my ride, altough not into the park itself, just down the highway that passes
21:29.43archivistbikes need engines
21:30.05brlcadhehe
21:30.54clock_brlcad: were there any stick figures?
21:31.11clock_brlcad: what was in the house at the end of the movie?
21:31.30clock_brlcad: the people were just staring there at something and it ended.
21:31.32brlcadi actually still haven't seen the movie, just know a bit about it
21:31.52clock_brlcad: it wasn't conclusive. All it could have been a joke of the locals that didn't like the visitors
21:32.20brlcadheh, given the area, that is highly possible ;)
23:05.45pra5adits bsg friday
23:05.51pra5adit's*
Jeff Waugh - find it at freshmeat.net! Modified by Tim Riker to work with blootbot logs, split per channel, etc. irclog2html for #brlcad on 20060114

irclog2html for #brlcad on 20060114

00:08.05brlcadthat it is
00:13.38``Erikweee, my fat caliper is here
00:18.55``ErikI see lee is playing with bug priorities o.O
00:34.21brlcadyeah, he's been on a frenzy
00:34.50brlcadhopefully will settle down soon, most do after their first couple times through ;)
00:43.28``Erikheh
00:43.46``Erikd'no why he's upmodding pedros thing
00:43.49``Erikit's terribly minor
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00:57.30brlcadheh didn't know you were the maintainer now
01:00.46brlcader, s/heh/he/
01:11.40``Erikfor a while
01:11.55``Erikpedro did the first one, then handed it off to me
01:12.48``Erikapr 9, 05
01:13.00brlcadyeah, i told lee a hint of the details and that that particular issue is mostly taken care of already
01:13.17``Erikthe optimization thing is trivial
01:13.33``Erikthe itcl/itk thing, libbu wigs out on having radically different paths
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01:37.42``Erikabout 20% :-/ I'm a damn fatass
02:30.26brlcadtegtmeye: almost finished!
02:31.34brlcad``Erik: you gonna bring them calipers in? :)
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02:53.01``Erik...
02:53.03``Erikheh
02:53.06``ErikI spoze I could
02:53.11``Erikif you wash 'em after you use 'em o.
02:53.12``ErikO
02:54.04brlcadheh, nah, just wondering :)
02:54.20brlcad<PROTECTED>
02:56.28``Erikheh
02:56.31``Eriklemme guess
02:56.35``Erikyou, jason, and prasad
02:56.49``Erikthe pussy faggots who go lift weights every fucking day
02:56.57``ErikO:-)
02:58.28brlcadthem's brave words, don't make me sic pra5ad on you
02:58.47brlcadactually i had others in mind, but I probably don't want to really know
03:02.10justin_http://www.random-good-stuff.com/random_good_stuff/2005/10/guess_whom_i_sa.html
03:15.07brlcadheh
03:22.40CIA-6BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/rt/rtshot.c:
03:22.40CIA-6BRL-CAD: use rt_gettrees_and_attrs instead of rt_gettrees_muves. the latter is a special
03:22.40CIA-6BRL-CAD: hook routine provided to muves (though why rt_gettrees_and_attrs wasn't
03:22.40CIA-6BRL-CAD: sufficient is a mystery to me). the abstraction does keep them ever so slightly
03:22.40CIA-6BRL-CAD: decoupled, but brl-cad code shouldn't be calling it even if rtshot was initially
03:22.41CIA-6BRL-CAD: perhaps an example for them.
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03:31.01PKMOBILEpong
03:31.31PKMOBILEwow my school email account has been reduced to a spam folder
03:31.33PKMOBILEand i never use it
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04:00.18justin_<PROTECTED>
04:00.28justin_for this month
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04:25.58pra5admeh new bsg was ok
04:26.13pra5adi predicted the twist =(
04:38.33MaloeranHum, bsg?
04:42.29justin_battle star galactica
04:44.05MaloeranEh right, couldn't find what part of BrlCad "bsg" was refering to
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05:55.35*** topic/#brlcad is http://brlcad.org/ || BRL-CAD is now Free Software! || BRL-CAD Windows port has been merged to HEAD, not yet stable yet || Archer is now on HEAD as well, kick the tires, report any bugs || there WILL be a 7.6.8 released ASAP for January after all
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Jeff Waugh - find it at freshmeat.net! Modified by Tim Riker to work with blootbot logs, split per channel, etc. irclog2html for #brlcad on 20060115

irclog2html for #brlcad on 20060115

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00:38.19pra5addammit skins
00:38.25pra5addammit!
01:44.02``Erikgo seahawks, seattle rules!
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03:48.53CIA-6BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/m4/compiler.m4: meh
03:49.30pra5adsean
03:49.45pra5adwhere's that link to muscle pain
03:49.56pra5adsomeone posted here earlier
04:04.58CIA-6BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/m4/ (epsilon.m4 Makefile.am): (log message trimmed)
04:04.58CIA-6BRL-CAD: new m4/epsilon.m4 file. define macros BC_TRY_RUN_OUTPUT, BC_FLOAT_EPSILON, and
04:04.58CIA-6BRL-CAD: BC_DOUBLE_EPSILON. BC_TRY_RUN_OUTPUT attempts to compile and run the provided
04:04.58CIA-6BRL-CAD: program, saving the output in the provided variable. this makes for really
04:04.58CIA-6BRL-CAD: convenient tests that can output a calculated value (like computation
04:04.59CIA-6BRL-CAD: tolerances). The latter two respectively determine the floating point tolerance
04:05.01CIA-6BRL-CAD: epsilon value (i.e. smallest value such that 1.0 + value != 1.0). ANSI defines
04:10.31CIA-6BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/configure.ac:
04:10.31CIA-6BRL-CAD: run AC_C_BIGENDIAN without overriding the if-true and if-false so that the
04:10.31CIA-6BRL-CAD: regular WORDS_BIGENDIAN define is provided (added for blt, which relies on it).
04:10.31CIA-6BRL-CAD: test for size of int and long so that the result is logged for debugging. add
04:10.31CIA-6BRL-CAD: checks to determine the floating point epsilon values too.
04:11.20brlcadpra5ad: take some advil, or an anti-inflammatory ;)
04:25.19justin_if I'm going to add cam stuff to brl-cad, should I start a new project?
04:27.41brlcadgiven the way you prefer to code, probably -- go for it
04:28.17justin_it's either that or I'm going to make a little opengl app
04:40.22brlcadi'd say strip and use what you like, actually might make it easier to pull the good parts in and let you develop unhindered
04:44.02justin_I'm actually thinking about an alternate plan now
04:44.36justin_since milling only a handful of specialized functions for boring and threading mainly, I'll just build those into a light weight opengl app
04:44.50justin_*there exist
04:45.06justin_brl-cad can be used for generating geometry
04:47.08justin_going through the hassle of modeling threads and then converting back is silly
04:47.36justin_easier to just say "I want an #8-32 thread 6mm deep"
04:47.59justin_and have it know to do a helical sweep
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08:30.45CIA-6BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/m4/epsilon.m4:
08:30.45CIA-6BRL-CAD: add BC_COMPLIANT_FLOAT and BC_COMPLIANT_DOUBLE for determining whether the
08:30.45CIA-6BRL-CAD: floating point implementation seems to be IEEE 754 compliant. a handful of
08:30.45CIA-6BRL-CAD: tests are performed, namely checking that the epsilon tolerance matches the
08:30.46CIA-6BRL-CAD: defined power, making sure 0 == -0, and that -0 is actually implemented.
08:32.50CIA-6BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/configure.ac: add the new BC_COMPLIANT_FLOAT and BC_COMPLIANT_DOUBLE tests
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08:49.07CIA-6BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/autogen.sh: fix a problem where the an aborted autogen.sh would leave a configure.ac.backup and a subsequent failing autoconf would restore the wrong/old backup. only restore if we made the backup.
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17:08.02CIA-6BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/other/blt/Makefile.am: their configure indicated they need socket, m, and nsl, so add them
17:14.54CIA-6BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/other/blt/src/bltTree.c: there seem to be two macro names missing for systems where sizeof_void_p is 8 (MAX_LIST_VALUES and START_LOGSIZE) so move their defines outside the #if so everyone gets it.
18:25.50CIA-6BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/configure.ac: add header checks for ieeefp.h, setjmp.h, and waitflags.h for the blt package, also add function checks for finite() and isfinit() from libm and a sizeof test for long long.
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18:33.57pierHi everybody
18:34.12pierIs brlcad around?
18:45.10brlcadhe's always around
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19:43.20CIA-6BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/gtools/g_transfer.c:
19:43.20CIA-6BRL-CAD: give the server something to do with the geometry sent to it -- the client can
19:43.20CIA-6BRL-CAD: specify objects that should be shot at via MSG_ARGS packets. the server stashes
19:43.20CIA-6BRL-CAD: those object names and then shoots a ray at them when the client disconnects.
19:43.20CIA-6BRL-CAD: since external packets actually include their data lengths inside, we don't need
19:43.21CIA-6BRL-CAD: to send that object length as a string. server now correctly stashes the
19:43.23CIA-6BRL-CAD: geometry as in-memory objects.
20:36.40CIA-6BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/librt/db_open.c: ack, make sure the file pointer isn't null before trying to fclose it
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23:49.24CIA-6BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/librt/db_io.c: ws
23:51.04CIA-6BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/librt/db5_io.c: missing curlies, so wrong message was getting printed on bad objects.
Jeff Waugh - find it at freshmeat.net! Modified by Tim Riker to work with blootbot logs, split per channel, etc. irclog2html for #brlcad on 20060116

irclog2html for #brlcad on 20060116

02:00.42CIA-6BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/librt/tree.c: stash the node into an argv for rt_gettree() so that it may be null-padded. helps debugging to see the boundary.
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03:16.03paulMD-USHey all... question for people....  is there an application within the brlcad package to generate traditional 2d CAD drawings from the 3d brlcad solid model?
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03:42.13brlcadpaulMD-US: yes and no
03:43.55brlcadpaulMD-US: for the edge-style drawings themselves, there is an application called rtedge that will render an edge-outline drawing
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03:45.00paulMD-USohk... But there's no application for like dimensioning that drawing or anything like that?
03:45.08brlcadpaulMD-US: what it doesn't do, and which we don't have a tool for yet is the means to draw annotations and dimensions onto that rendering (or the other raytracers for that matter) though this is being worked on as time permits
03:45.39paulMD-USOK .. thanx for the info!
03:45.46brlcadno problem
03:45.54brlcadfeel free to help us implement it ;)
03:46.23paulMD-USyea... regretably I'm a better engineer than I am a programmer, hahaha
03:46.29brlcad:)
03:47.06brlcadthere is likely going to be an annotation tool that will allow one to overlay annotations and dimensions onto a raytrace fairly soon (next few months)
03:47.50brlcadthe longer-term work is going into adding full support for stashing annotations and overlays into the geometry file themselves as geometric objects akin to brl-cad's sketches
03:48.28brlcadeverything's mostly in place for it already, it's just a limitation of time/resources and a few other higher-priority items
03:56.02justin_mmm engineering
04:14.34pra5adbody implants w/ antennas
04:14.43pra5adi smell a bad csi ep
04:28.50justin_heh
04:29.04justin_turns out sitting in my chair I get 1200kB/sec, away from computer I get 250kB/sec
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08:09.38brlcadwoot!
08:34.50CIA-6BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/librt/prep.c: quell a warning after repeat calls to rt_clean() since the rti_nsol_by_type wasn't getting set to zero when the memory was released. now it checks for the zero param to bu_free and clears the nsol value.
08:41.09CIA-6BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/gtools/g_transfer.c: (log message trimmed)
08:41.10CIA-6BRL-CAD: now fully working, shooting rays at the remote geometry being held in-memory
08:41.10CIA-6BRL-CAD: only. finishing polish fixes that were needed include making the dbi_title
08:41.10CIA-6BRL-CAD: memory dynamic so librt doesn't try to free the static string, do the something
08:41.10CIA-6BRL-CAD: during the ciao instead of after the server shuts down, and MOST IMPORTANTLY ..
08:41.10CIA-6BRL-CAD: don't free the libpkg buf buffer that was used to set the external buffer, that
08:41.12CIA-6BRL-CAD: gets stashed into the directory pointer, that must not be free'd when we try to
08:44.27CIA-6BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/NEWS: new g_transfer in-memory geometry example program
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15:06.21rednoonhello
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17:56.35CIA-6BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/gtools/.cvsignore: ignore g_transfer
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18:16.25CIA-6BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/librt/db5_io.c: protect from loosing memory and from otherwise potentially freeing what we are about to dup by stashing the pointer then freeing it.
18:19.28CIA-6BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/librt/ (db_flags.c db_alloc.c): move the db_flags_internal() to its own db_flags.c file as it has very little to do with allocations. also, add another routine for getting the flags from a db5_raw_internal as well.
18:22.07CIA-6BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/librt/ (db_inmem.c db_lookup.c):
18:22.08CIA-6BRL-CAD: begin consolidating the in-memory-only database geometry support into one plcae.
18:22.08CIA-6BRL-CAD: move db_inmem() to its own db_inmem.c file, adding two new routines for
18:22.08CIA-6BRL-CAD: opening/creating in-memory databases via db_open_inmem() and db_create_inmem().
18:22.08CIA-6BRL-CAD: difference between the two being that create adds a _GLOBAL while open does not.
18:22.39CIA-6BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/librt/Makefile.am: add db_flags.c and db_inmem.c
18:25.29CIA-6BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/gtools/g_transfer.c: rename the dbip global to DBIP to distinguish it from local function dbip pointers. move the open/create/flag inmem routines into librt proper into the db_inmem.c and db_flags.c files.
18:27.09CIA-6BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/gtools/g_transfer.c: switch it back to db_open_inmem() instead of db_create_inmem() since testing is done, either should work fine but for this application, we don't need the _GLOBAL.
18:28.16CIA-6BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/include/raytrace.h: add declarations for the new routines in db_inmem.c and db_flags.c, namely db_open_inmem, db_create_inmem, and db_flags_raw_internal
18:29.43CIA-6BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/TODO: wrote the .g in-memory transfer example aplication
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20:10.09IngManHI
20:10.16IngManHi Mos
20:10.30IngManHi Morrison
20:16.30brlcadhello IngMan
20:17.56brlcadif you refer to me as "brlcad", it'll usually get my attention faster
20:20.24IngMank
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20:22.32IngManhi BrlCAD
20:23.30brlcadheh
20:24.17brlcadbrlcad for me brl-cad or BRL-CAD for the package ;)
20:24.31IngManok
20:24.55IngMante acuerdas que te comente de manual en español
20:25.04brlcadsi
20:25.26brlcadspeaking of such.. pier has just finished up volume I in italian..
20:25.32brlcadlooking at it now
20:28.13IngMani want talk about nirt command, but i dont know :(
20:28.48brlcadah, yes
20:29.49brlcadthere may likely be more information on nirt in the old printed documentation series from a long time ago
20:30.11brlcadi'll see if I can find anything in them
20:30.23brlcad(tomorrow, don't have them here with me now)
20:30.35brlcadotherwise, que quierias saber?
20:31.18IngMancual es el objetivo del programa, no lo entiendo
20:31.32brlcadbasicamente..
20:32.33brlcadcomo se dice.. nirt tira rayos hacia objectos
20:33.05brlcady te dice donde el rayo encuentra los objectos, que tan gruesos son
20:33.56brlcadquiza el material del objecto se tiene caracteristicas materiales
20:34.12IngManya
20:34.25IngManeso era lo que yo pensaba
20:34.39``Erikheh
20:34.51brlcadse puede usar por dentro de mged o separado
20:35.40IngManlistoç
20:35.45brlcadpor ejemplo, abra un archive .g en mged, haga un 'e algo', y 'nirt'
20:36.18IngMany  de que otro comando seria bueno hablar
20:37.31brlcadnirt tambien se llama "query_ray" en mged
20:38.01brlcadbueno.. bastantes.. jmm
20:38.05brlcadrtedge
20:38.07brlcadrtwizard
20:38.17brlcadrt
20:38.40brlcadbastante mandatos de conversion
20:39.09IngMansi de esos ya los tengo casi todos aunque los mas importantes son iges y stl NO???
20:43.55IngMande casualidad tienes un .density ya creado
20:46.23brlcaddepende en que te importa para decir quales son los mas importantes..
20:46.40brlcadsi, tengo un .density
20:47.13IngManme permites copiarlo
20:47.37brlcadhttp://ftp.brlcad.org/tmp/.density
20:49.00IngManthanks
20:52.40IngManwhat program GPL is good for FEA
20:53.19*** join/#brlcad cad485 (n=43621c7a@bz.bzflag.bz)
20:54.55*** join/#brlcad cad863 (n=43621c7a@bz.bzflag.bz)
20:56.05brlcadIngMan: for the actual FEA, no se .. for meshing and preparation support, Cubit is very nice
20:56.42brlcadwe're looking to collaborate with the Cubit folks sometime later this year
20:56.47cad863A BRL-CAD question
20:57.32phcoderls-dyna? you can download it, but I don't know if it's GPL
20:57.48IngManonly GPL or FREE
20:57.52IngMan;)
20:58.28IngManimpact or Calculix
20:59.17cad863My first time on IRC ... this is the preferred method of communicating with BRL-CAD devel. ... don't know proper manners for IRC.
20:59.23IngManare good
21:00.00cad863so how may I ask a question?
21:01.54brlcadcad863: just ask it
21:01.56IngMansimple,  ask  your  question
21:02.29brlcadcad863: and yes, this is a preferred method, though the developer mailing list works too
21:02.30cad863ah!  there's someone.  ok.  
21:03.01brlcadask the saying goes:
21:03.02brlcad~ask
21:03.04ibotQuestions in the channel should be specific, informative, complete, concise, and on-topic.  Don't ask if you can ask a quesiton first.  Don't ask if a person is there, just ask what you intended to ask them.  Better questions more frequently yield better answers.  We are all here voluntarily.  See also http://catb.org/~esr/faqs/smart-questions.html
21:03.04cad863I've found bits and pieces alluding to a rollout of BRL-CAD on MS Win last November users meeting
21:03.29brlcadcad863: yes, finishing up that merge now actually
21:03.30*** join/#brlcad AchiestDragon (n=dave@whipy.demon.co.uk)
21:03.46brlcadbeen working on it almost non-stop
21:03.49cad863when will it be available then?
21:04.15brlcadthere's an alpha/beta-release available now if you're interested
21:04.21brlcadthe first "real" release should be next month
21:04.29brlcadi.e. 2-3 weeks
21:04.51cad863yes.  primarily just need mged and VDECK ... with I suppose the associated RT
21:05.11cad863I need to create ".cg" input files for a thermal model
21:05.22brlcadhm, not sure if it includes the vdeck converter, but it'd be easy to compile
21:05.25cad863have done so on Solaris, but they want me to do Win
21:06.09brlcadrt and mged are definitely available
21:07.02cad863I D/L'd the source, so just need do-it-myself instruction, a pointer to the right doc, or someone to just ship it to me :)
21:07.32brlcadlike I said, I can give you a link to the nov. beta
21:07.39cad863great!
21:07.41brlcadotherwise, it shouldn't be too hard to compile
21:08.13brlcadthere are vc7 project files in misc/win32-msvc7
21:08.31brlcadand last I checked, the entire package builds under mingw
21:08.54cad863excellent.  thanks much.
21:11.40pierwanted to go on with the short mged tutorial but can't find the link
21:12.44brlcadshort mged tutorial?
21:13.14pieryes .. the one with the mug example
21:13.27brlcadah
21:13.31brlcadthe old one :)
21:13.33piervery short version of Vol. II
21:13.39pieryes
21:13.44brlcadthat's in the doc/html directory
21:13.50pierit helped me a lot
21:13.57pierok :)
21:14.33brlcadeither in doc/html in a source checkout or in /usr/brlcad/share/brlcad/VERSION/html/
21:14.55pieras soon as you think it is ok I'll get down with Vol.II
21:17.53pieror would it be better to go straight o it?
21:18.48brlcadpier: just read it .. looks great :)
21:22.34pierthanks... but unfortunately it wasn,t me the author of the content
21:22.53brlcadtranslating isn't easy or quick
21:23.14piera mere translator...
21:23.59pierso do you think Vol II would be the proper task now?
21:24.31pierrather than the abridged old version
21:24.49brlcadyes and no
21:25.07brlcadyou started with the html for the translation, translating the pdf that way isn't going to be nearly as easy
21:25.40brlcadand ultimately, it will need to be a structured format (for most all the docs) like docbook
21:25.55brlcadwhich hasn't even happened for english yet
21:26.18pierI see
21:27.08brlcadi mean, it'd take weeks to recode all of vol II regardless
21:28.17brlcadcontinue in the direction you were going -- the html doc tutorial
21:28.31brlcadthat should be easier, and it'll give more time to think about what to do about volume II
21:28.41pierok I'll see what can I make of it
21:30.56pierI'll show up as soon as I get somethig done
21:31.08brlcadsounds great
21:32.20pierok see u then
21:35.33*** part/#brlcad pier (n=pier@151.56.192.151)
22:17.37*** join/#brlcad mcaruso (n=mcaruso@pool-141-156-220-116.res.east.verizon.net)
22:18.58mcarusocan anyone point me to an example that shows how to transform an object to a position and orientation?
22:19.23mcarusowithin code
22:20.57brlcadmcaruso: src/proc-db examples do this (most of them)
22:25.42brlcadmcaruso: if you're using the libwdb routines for creating/positioning geometry, e.g. mk_addmember(), it returns a struct wmember* which contains the transformation matrix that will get written to disk
22:26.15mcarusobrlcad: Im not using anything right now, Im looking to see how to get started
22:26.27mcarusobrlcad: I am starting with an rt_i*
22:26.54brlcadmcaruso: it depends on your purpose -- if you're just writing out geometry, the libwdb interface is considerably simplified
22:27.29mcarusobrlcad: ok Im not writing out the geometry, its all in memory
22:27.36brlcadrt_i includes a pointer to a wdb pointer, it's more a matter of whether you'll want that saved to disk
22:28.33mcarusobrlcad: no need to save to disk
22:28.38brlcader, rt_i includes a pointer to the wdb structure (rti_wdbp member)
22:29.04brlcadk, then you'll have to go through a little more work to convert the geometry into an in-memory version
22:29.18mcarusohmmm
22:29.28brlcadnot hard, i actually just finished writing a tool that does exactly that
22:29.34brlcadfor a different purpose
22:29.35mcarusoooooo
22:29.57brlcadthe in-memory processing part that is, I don't modify the geometry though that becomes easy
22:30.35brlcadcheck out the src/gtools/g_transfer.c source in CVS head
22:30.44mcarusook
22:31.17brlcadi.e. http://cvs.sourceforge.net/viewcvs.py/brlcad/brlcad/src/gtools/g_transfer.c?rev=1.11&view=auto
22:31.43brlcadthat program is a client and server example application
22:31.53brlcad(i.e. is run in one of the two modes)
22:32.27brlcadyou run the server, connect to it with the client and the geometry is transferred to the remote host, kept in-memory only and processed from there (raytraced)
22:33.35brlcadtwo main routines are send_to_server() that the client uses to read the geometry off disk in a serialized format, to send to the server
22:34.32pra5adg_transfer is what u created for mike?
22:34.34brlcaddb_get_external(&ext, dp, dbip); gets the "external"/serialized format which is then sent to the server
22:34.40brlcadpra5ad: yes
22:34.50brlcaddifferent mike :)
22:35.05pra5adeh
22:35.33brlcadthe server then gets the external/serialized geometry from the client and processes it with server_geom()
22:36.50mcarusoso if you were to make an animation lets say (movie) creating an in-memory version of the geoemtry is necessary, correct?
22:37.22mcarusoIm not making a movie but just using that as an example
22:37.28brlcaddepends whether you're acticulating the geometry or the camera
22:37.40brlcadif it's just the camera, then no
22:37.55mcarusoyea lets say geometry
22:37.56brlcadthat's just shooting rays from different locations/grids
22:38.42mcarusoand I guess it also means that if you need to move one object the entire scene also needs to be converted to in-memory
22:39.06brlcadnot necessarily -- you can have pieces in memory, and pieces not in memory
22:39.10mcarusook
22:39.36mcarusohow can I verify that a model in a .g file is built around the origin?
22:39.43brlcadmged uses in-memory geometry while you are editing for example until you "accept" an operation
22:39.51mcarusooh ok
22:39.55brlcadthen it's written to disk replacing the non-in-memory version
22:40.30mcarusocause im thinking I might not have to turn the geometry to in-memory
22:40.45mcarusobecause I have an orientation and location of where I would like to place the object
22:40.47brlcadprobably the easiest means to verify a model is built around the origin is to load the geometry, prep it, and look at the model bounding box
22:40.54mcarusoand I want to shoot a ray at it
22:40.59mcarusook
22:41.30mcarusoso I could create the matrix that would do a model->world transformation than get the inverse of that and multiply the position and direction vectors of my rays
22:41.42brlcadyeah, for isolated objects, you can fake matrix manipulations and trasnformations by just shooting from different locations
22:42.08brlcadit's when you need them in context among other objects simultaneaously that you need the in-mem version
22:42.22brlcadyeah, that should work
22:42.25mcarusogood point, cause I dont need that for the VL stuff
22:42.31mcarusojust one object
22:42.32brlcadright
22:46.50brlcadyeah, if it's only one object, then you wont need to deal with getting external/internal formats and creating the inmem -- a lot easier/simple to transform the rays
22:49.47*** join/#brlcad DTRemenak (n=DTRemena@DHCP-170-143.caltech.edu)
23:30.31CIA-6BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/other/awf/pass2.base: support ./" and .\" as an awf comment
23:32.38CIA-6BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/BUGS: our awf now supports ./" comments in addition to .\" ones
23:37.45CIA-6BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/NEWS: fixed brlman/awf `./"' unsupported or unknown issue
23:51.15pra5adhow can check if crond is running jobs correctly
23:51.55``Erikit sends you email about what it's doing? o.O
23:52.15*** join/#brlcad igotbsd (n=ricardo@adsl-10-15-31.mia.bellsouth.net)
23:52.23pra5adeh
23:52.35pra5adby default?
23:52.44``Erikyes
23:52.56``Erikstdout and stderr get emailed to the user the cron job belongs to
23:53.44pra5adhmm dont have an account setup
23:54.52``Erikthe cronjob has to belong to a user...
23:58.14pra5adcan i do this: explicitly append to /var/log/messages from the script in /etc/cron.hourly ?
23:58.47``Erikuhmmmm,
23:59.08``Erikif you can find or write something that sends to syslog, and pipe the output of cron.hourly crap to it?
23:59.19``ErikI d'no if cron itself will talk to syslog directly
Jeff Waugh - find it at freshmeat.net! Modified by Tim Riker to work with blootbot logs, split per channel, etc. irclog2html for #brlcad on 20060117

irclog2html for #brlcad on 20060117

00:00.21``ErikI see no documentation indicating that it can talk syslog
00:04.22pra5adlocalhost sshd[27432] reverse mapping checking getaddrinfo for public-s.com failed - POSSIBLE BREAKIN ATTEMPT!
00:04.22pra5adlocalhost sshd[27432] (pam_unix) authentication failure; logname= uid=0 euid=0 tty=ssh ruser= rhost=211.125.70.86  user=root
00:04.22pra5adlocalhost sshd[27432] Failed password for root from 211.125.70.86 port 52662 ssh2
00:04.29pra5ad:0
00:04.43*** part/#brlcad igotbsd (n=ricardo@adsl-10-15-31.mia.bellsouth.net)
00:06.06pra5adlocalhost /USR/SBIN/CRON[22486] (root) CMD (   run-parts --report /etc/cron.hourly)
00:06.15pra5adis run every hour
00:06.19pra5adhrm
00:07.35pra5adrun-parts isnt finding the script in cron.hourly
00:08.59docelicpra5ad which script ?
00:09.41pra5adit's my own ( blah.sh ) with 755
00:10.01pra5adi can explicitly call it and it runs fine
00:10.18docelicdoes it have #!/bin/sh at the top ?
00:10.24pra5adyes
00:12.30docelicstrange.. There's surely an obvious explanation, though :)
00:14.15pra5adhah
00:14.27pra5adit didnt like '_' in the filename
00:14.30pra5ad:\
00:14.35pra5adall is well
00:15.36pra5ador perhaps the length.. whatever =)
01:16.58justin_1/2" drywall is great for the biceps
04:10.03brlcadpra5ad: i get a couple dozen various sorts of ssh intrusion attempts a day on the server, nothing abnormal unfortunately
04:10.39brlcadimportant to disable root/admin ssh though and ensure you have decent passwords at the least
04:18.20*** join/#brlcad PrezKennedy (n=Apathy@pcp010175pcs.dover01.de.comcast.net)
04:38.21*** join/#brlcad Weyland (n=4692492d@bz.bzflag.bz)
04:39.29brlcadupdating just about every file, that time of year again
04:40.00Weylandnewbie here
04:40.07brlcadhello Weyland
04:40.19Weylandfew "poke around" type questions if I can
04:40.23WeylandHi~!
04:40.53brlcadfire away, someone's usually around to answer.. i'm usually around and will answer eventually
04:41.39WeylandFirst, forgive me of this is in the PDFs or somewhere else... I saw the IRC channel and thought to ask and interact
04:41.45Weylandthanks
04:42.10WeylandCan BRLCAD create files that can be used by a CAM system like MasterCAM?
04:42.49brlcadno problem
04:42.52brlcadfeel free to hang out ;)
04:43.02brlcad(with a real irc client eventually, of course)
04:43.15WeylandAh, hold on, I can do that...
04:43.19brlcadbrl-cad has exporters for a variety of geometry formats
04:43.37brlcadmore than likely, one of them is one that mastercam can read
04:43.57Weylandis there a link to an html list of them or do I need to keep opening pdfs?
04:44.20brlcadg-acad        g-dxf         g-euclid1     g-jack        g-nmg         g-off         g-stl         g-vrml        
04:44.23brlcadg-adrt        g-euclid      g-iges        g-nff         g-obj         g-shell.rect  g-tankill     g-x3d
04:44.46Weylandkewl - stl adn iges
04:44.49brlcaddxf, iges, stl, and obj are highly likely
04:44.51Weylandand*
04:44.58Weylandkewl
04:44.59Weylandthanks
04:45.18Weylandhere, lemme get a client running and come back
04:45.30brlcadmind you that those are all explicit/facetized geometry formats, not implicit like brl-cad prefers
04:45.46brlcadbut they'll usually get the job done
04:45.48brlcadsure
04:46.25*** join/#brlcad weyland (n=weyland@adsl-146-73-45.mia.bellsouth.net)
04:46.31weylandbetter?
04:46.58brlcad:)
04:47.03weyland:)
04:47.05weylandokay...
04:47.30weylandrealistically, how does BRLCAD compare to SolidWorks?
04:47.45weylandor is there a comparison?
04:47.48brlcadheh, that's a pretty involved question ;)
04:47.59weylandWell, let me back up a minute
04:48.07brlcadlemme see if I can find a link -- i went into some detail on a message thread somewhere
04:48.32weylandI've been using SW and MasterCAM for a while and really like SW, and deal with mcam
04:48.42weylandokay, kewl
04:49.01weylandBUT~! I'm always looking for ways to do things natively in Linux...
04:49.20weylandand have been looking for a good solid modeller in linux for some time
04:49.36brlcadbrl-cad will feel incredibly different in some respects .. it was designed for different purposes and with different methodologies
04:49.39weylandSW is (for me) very quick and easy
04:49.47brlcadthat said, both can and do get the job done and are in production use
04:50.06weylandI don't mind different methods
04:50.23weylandit's the results and ease of use that matter to me
04:50.59weylandafter that, it's keeping on the lookout for ways to completely shed any ties to windows
04:51.24weylandWell... after making sure to remain productive at the shop :)
04:51.52brlcadhere's one relevant thread: http://sourceforge.net/forum/forum.php?thread_id=1273540&forum_id=362509
04:51.56weylandAlso, is BRL-CAD parametric?
04:52.15brlcadbrl-cad has the results, long long history of them
04:52.46brlcadthe ease of use depends on who you talk to -- from a sw background, you probably won't find it easy to use at least at first
04:53.36weylandkewl, honesty. *THAT* I can work with... :)
04:54.04weyland<PROTECTED>
04:54.25brlcadmged is the primary modeler in brl-cad, one of about 400 tools in all
04:54.40weylandIn the end, I'll evaluate it anyway. I'm just looking for some insights up front
04:54.59brlcadmged's interface leaves much to be desired, but it gets the job done for the experts quickly
04:55.22brlcadnew users tend to cry for a couple weeks, then start to appreciate it after they make it through the training
04:55.47brlcadbrl-cad does not have decent support for parametrics or expressions yet if that's what you meant
04:56.02brlcadit's on the to do list
04:56.09weylandwhat I mean is this -
04:56.30brlcadit's not a brep modeler either ;)
04:56.42brlcadthough brep support is improving
04:57.22brlcadit's very strongly implicit modeling based, CSG hierarchies from top to bottom
04:57.33weylandIn SW, I can choose a "feature" and change it's "properties" to change its size, and if there are other features that are linked to that one, they will all change similarly, without my having to go and choose each one individually.
04:57.49weylandDoes BRL-CAD have something similar?
04:58.14weylandbrep is not something I'm familiar with. definition?
04:58.43brlcadthat's parametrics and expressions, getting geometry to tie to other geometry and automatically resolve updates
04:58.52brlcadit's a hot topic and wanted feature, but not yet a reality
04:59.02weylandokay.
04:59.32weylandis there an expected timeline?
05:00.10brlcadwith the nature of open source, hard to say -- depends a lot on the drive of the community
05:00.17weylandunderstood
05:00.47weylandjust poking around, trying to get an idea of what's been going on and how things have been moving
05:01.10brlcadthat and managing the time constraints with the other priorities going on -- like the last couple months have been heavy getting the Windows port merged in cleanly
05:01.23weyland:)
05:02.17weylandI've been using EMC as a maching controller, and there's a similar situation with regard to getting threading for lathe going.
05:03.31brlcadthere was a couple guys highly interested in coupling brl-cad to emc or having it export gcode directly or indirectly for a while, the interests ebb and flow
05:03.56weylandit would probably help both of you greatly
05:04.10weylandEMC is really, really good
05:04.22weylandweird learning curve, but worht it.
05:04.47brlcadwith the way most things in brl-cad are isolated into commands, writing bridges usually becomes a matter of writing an exporter
05:06.27weylandright, right
05:07.19brlcadbiggest project under development right now is a revamped modeling interface, since that is brl-cad's weakest link generally speaking
05:07.38weylandyou mean like a better gui?
05:07.49brlcadfor all the mged does very well, there are several simple things from just an interface perspective that make it a pita
05:07.54brlcadindeed I do
05:08.30weylandright... I understand... still, I (personally) don't mind overmuch a CLI box
05:09.26weylandSW *is* really nice in that its GUI is very quick and intuitive, but I don't mind a CLI if it is quick and good as well
05:09.53brlcadthe cli isn't going away, just a matter of making the gui-side much better and making the cli more discoverable as well
05:10.00weylandkewl
05:10.11brlcadthe cli as it stands is probably mged's strongest point
05:10.50brlcadseveral of brl-cad's expert modelers swear by it saying there are things they can do with it that they can't even begin to approach in pro/e, unigraphics
05:10.51weylandCLI's usually are :)
05:11.11weylandhmmm... okay
05:11.22brlcadit is a fully scriptable and extendable environment as well
05:12.02weylandI'm thinking that BRL-CAd is probably MUCH more powerful than *I'LL* ever need, but I'm still intrested
05:12.55weylandBasically, I really would love to find something Linux based for my modelling
05:13.39weylandSW is pretty much perfect for me, save for the windows thing...
05:14.20brlcadlearning to model using csg operations as your primary technique is often the hard part for users coming from a brep modeler like solidworks
05:14.58weylandIf you guys ever did get BRL-CAD to do CAM output (with or without EMC interface) THAT would be the cat's pajamas~!
05:15.01brlcadyeah, trust me.. supporting windows isn't at the top of my list, but the masses do speak loudly and frequently
05:15.25brlcadheh
05:15.47weylandCSG? BREP? where can I find these defs?
05:16.05weylandI'm not "trained" so miss a lot of meanings
05:16.54brlcadmoderately simple introduction to CSG on wikipedia and other places on the web
05:16.59brlcadhttp://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Constructive_solid_geometry  iirc
05:17.08weylandAh, okay, kewl
05:18.22brlcadone or two bullets on various techniques here: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Solid_modeling
05:19.05brlcadmost modelers are some sort of hybrid system, even brl-cad, though brl-cad still has a massive foundation on CSG
05:19.56brlcadwhereas may of the other systems tend to promote feature brep modeling with parametrics
05:21.15weylandAH~! Brep~! Now I get it.
05:21.42weylandyes... brep + parametrics = sw
05:21.45weylandgot it
05:22.16weylandactually very good articles
05:22.40brlcadthe fundamental mathematiccal differences are usually explicit vs implicit modeling, which is a little more involved to explain
05:24.26weylandWell, I think I'll play around with it for a bit and see what happens
05:24.40weylandThanks very much for your time and efforts
05:24.41brlcadyou found the tutorial manuals?
05:24.48weylandPDFs?
05:24.51brlcadon the website
05:24.53brlcadyeah
05:25.01brlcadvolume II in particular for getting started with mged
05:25.16weylandyes, was using the first one and doing the sphere excercise
05:25.17brlcadyou won't likely be able to just  jump in without going through some of the tutorials
05:25.26weylandno chance :)
05:25.44weylandno offense - but it's not at all intuitive :)
05:25.53brlcadno offense taken
05:25.55brlcadi agree
05:26.08weylandstill, it didn't take but a few minutes to get a few pages in of the tutorial
05:26.15brlcadthat's why a new modeler interface is a long-term-priority
05:26.31weylandthat's how I learned both SW and Mcam
05:26.41weylandfrom the tutorials
05:27.27weylandnot that I really *know* either one, but I can use them for my purposes.
05:28.16weylandAre you aware of anyone actually using BRL-CAD in a production machinine shop environment?
05:28.33brlcadhmm
05:28.36weyland- I'm a one man shop
05:28.55weylandoops - machine shop
05:29.04brlcadnobody specific comes to mind, but that's consdierably outside my realm of contacts :)
05:29.13weylandokay, kewl
05:29.18weylandthought to ask
05:29.54brlcadthere have been folks askeing specifically about cam/machining purposes
05:30.07brlcadso I'd imagine yes as they are questions on use, not just passive interest
05:30.41weylandactually, thinking on it, you might wanna get with the EMC guys and offer the package for inclusion with the EMC releases/CDs
05:30.44brlcadmore than happy to make brl-cad be what it needs to for it though ;)
05:30.57weylandGood to hear :)
05:31.10brlcadi spoke with the emc guys early last year for a little while
05:31.28brlcadand there is mutual interest
05:31.36weylandsome new guys (really good guys, too) are involved these days
05:31.44brlcadit's more a matter of getting more than myself interested involved in the actual coding ;)
05:31.45weylandI think it could really benefit both of you
05:31.50weyland:)
05:32.40brlcadthere are a couple major areas like that we can/should be more inolved with (FEA anyone?) but are strapped for time/people
05:32.41weylandGraphiteOne was included and people started using it just because it was there.
05:32.44pra5adbrlcad is just lazy
05:32.52weylandlol
05:33.00weylandI know I tried it.
05:33.05weylandhated it, but I tried it
05:33.08brlcad~lart pra5ad
05:33.17weylandlol
05:34.01weylandKinematics would be fantastic
05:34.04weyland:)
05:34.18brlcadthere is rudimentary kinematics support actually
05:34.26weylandand while yer at it, an open bar would be great too
05:34.33brlcadnot simple to use, but it's there -- has been used to make some movies
05:34.42pra5adwe only serve sake
05:34.44pra5adjust a heads up
05:34.45weylandkewlio, didn't know that
05:34.53weylandlol
05:34.58weylandDamn. No Mead?
05:35.05brlcadmm..
05:35.21pra5adtalk to ``Erik  the mad for mead
05:35.32weylandbrewing some now
05:35.43weylanddrinking some always
05:35.49brlcad:)
05:36.22weylandWell, gotta go, but I thank you for the honest info
05:36.30weylandI'll be baq, I'm sure
05:36.32brlcadno problem
05:36.43weylandI'll check in here from time to time
05:36.48brlcadkeep an eye here or on the brlcad-news mailing list for announcements ;)
05:36.57weylandwill do
05:36.59weylandThanks
05:37.02weylandnite
05:37.06brlcadcya
05:46.45brlcadheh, seriously? need more then
05:55.19CIA-6BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/ (276 files in 47 dirs): fix the manpage commments via s/\.\/"/.\\\"/g
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06:20.53CIA-6BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/misc/cvs2cl.pl: revert inadvertent mod that will break the script
06:22.29CIA-6BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/other/libtcl/library/safe.tcl: revert inadvertent mod
06:27.58CIA-6BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/other/tkimg/base/configure: no need to put configure in cvs, especially if we're not using it
06:29.28CIA-6BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/other/libtcl/unix/tclUnixFile.c: revert
06:31.13CIA-6BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/libtclcad/tclcadAutoPath.c: revert
06:32.55CIA-6BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/other/libtcl/win/configure: don't need configure, can be generated
06:33.19CIA-6BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/other/libtcl/win/tclWinFCmd.c: revert
06:34.07CIA-6BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/other/libtcl/tools/configure: don't need configure, can be generated
06:36.31PKMOBILE(01:33:46) Enigma Geist: This "chuck kennedy" the site talks about...
06:36.31PKMOBILE(01:33:52) MK: thats my dad
06:36.32PKMOBILE(01:34:47) Enigma Geist: Kermit's your dad? O.O
06:36.32PKMOBILE(01:34:53) MK: yeah
06:36.32PKMOBILE(01:35:00) Enigma Geist: *jaw drops*
06:36.47PKMOBILEi dont get it i swear!
06:39.52CIA-6BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/other/libtk/unix/configure: don't need configure in cvs
06:40.55CIA-6BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/other/libtcl/generic/ (tclFileName.c tclIOUtil.c): revert
06:41.55CIA-6BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/other/libtk/win/configure: don't need configure in cvs
06:43.59CIA-6BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/tclscripts/fs_dialog.tk: revert
06:51.20brlcadPKMOBILE: heh
06:52.54PKMOBILEi think hes starting to get old... he had me doing all these diagnostics trying to figure out why we couldnt connect to play a game and it turns out he disconnected his computer from the network the night before
06:53.29brlcadmmm heh
06:54.34CIA-6BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/other/ (iwidgets/configure libz/configure): don't need configure in cvs
06:55.16PKMOBILEbrlcad, did you ever put in that request for them to restore the database or should i redo it from scratch or what?
07:03.56PKMOBILEi could also just pretty up the static page too
07:07.45brlcader, i did and they did
07:09.06brlcadit's in a file iirc on node1
07:10.32PKMOBILEoops
07:10.36PKMOBILEdidnt get the memo :-P
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20:53.49pierbrlcad
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21:42.32cad692Just want to confirm .... was I told yesterday that Windows distribution is anticipated within a few weeks?
21:51.43archivistthats what the man said and why didnt you wait for an answer
23:33.56brlcadarchivist: heh indeed
23:34.52archivistimpatient people, they just dont know the ways of irc
Jeff Waugh - find it at freshmeat.net! Modified by Tim Riker to work with blootbot logs, split per channel, etc. irclog2html for #brlcad on 20060118

irclog2html for #brlcad on 20060118

00:37.54archivistour computers do most of the lurking for us
01:09.52``Erik*autolurk*
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01:29.24``Erikargle blargle nawdle zous
01:48.00pra5adwhat he said
01:50.54justin_mmm, only 3 pieces of drywall left
01:51.18justin_the disturbing part is the gym is going to require 3x this work
01:56.50tegtmeyewhat is a gym for? never heard of one before
01:57.03tegtmeye<- munching on a twinky
01:58.52``Erikhah
01:59.44justin_bah, I have no junk food
02:01.13justin_I think I will start installing drop ceiling on thursday
02:01.47tegtmeyemmmmm calcium sulfate (in best Homer voice)
02:02.12justin_I wish my promotion would hurry up and go through, I want to bring in my homer slippers
02:03.23justin_with liquid air foot cooling system
02:03.49tegtmeyelol
02:04.36tegtmeyeI'll get you the water powered pecking bird for your keyboard as a promotion gift
02:04.59justin_ooh
02:05.37justin_if I get 2, I'd get twice the work done
02:06.47justin_mike, when we make liquid air, we can be cool and overclock our processors to 10 gigglehurts
02:07.02justin_and watch them blow a hole through the building
02:07.20tegtmeyeas long as i can get a really big exhaust pipe for my computer
02:07.26pra5adb238? halleluah!
02:07.38justin_I got dibs on a big tail fin
02:07.52justin_(with racing stripes)
02:08.00tegtmeyetype 'R'
02:08.09justin_for Riceronni
02:09.18justin_first thing I do when I become filthy rich, is slap a fin on the trooper, and make it a big R/C car
02:10.18justin_and uses my ray-tracing engine to target innocent pedestrians to shoot nerf arrows at
02:10.44tegtmeyelol
02:11.18tegtmeye1 millliion innocent bystanders per sec...
02:11.41justin_indeed
02:12.04justin_with SSE instructions I could shoot 4 pedestrians at once!
02:16.16justin_dried seamonkey's
03:42.35justin_I need to get me one of them new fangled graphics cards
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06:43.22CIA-6BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/sh/copyright.sh:
06:43.23CIA-6BRL-CAD: convert/update the copyright script from a BSD sed using the -E option for
06:43.23CIA-6BRL-CAD: extended regular expressions (an option which the GNU sed doesn't recognize).
06:43.23CIA-6BRL-CAD: convert the sed expressions to basic regular expressions instead so it works
06:43.24CIA-6BRL-CAD: with either without needing to test sed for option support or limiting to one
06:43.25CIA-6BRL-CAD: versus the other.
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06:46.46CIA-6BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/ (1646 files in 72 dirs): update copyright to 2006
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14:23.25MaDrensehi
14:23.41MaDrensecan BRL-CAD be used as a C++ modelling kernel ?
14:23.53MaDrensesimilar to Spatial's ACIS or Open Cascade ?
14:33.37brlcadMaDrense: hello and yes/no
14:34.55brlcadMaDrense: there is a relatively simple API to the geometry services in BRL-CAD
14:36.28brlcadfor creating geometry only, there is libwdb (Write DataBase library) which is a set of C functions that create geometry, e.g. mk_sph() to create a sphere
14:37.57MaDrenseand does it have csg functions ?!
14:38.06MaDrensedo they operate on the mesh ?
15:07.55brlcader
15:07.58brlcadyes and yes
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16:11.10cad648I've been having trouble with IRC.  Just want to confirm:  was I told days ago Windows release was anticipated "in a few weeks"
16:13.10archivistso why are you asking again
16:15.31cad648Because I've been having trouble with IRC ... asking into the void (or so it seems).
16:15.55cad648and because I didn't note down the previous answer
16:20.20archivistwell have patience 2-3 weeks is not too long
16:21.20cad648Thanks ... just wanted to double check and copy to the bosses.
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18:09.53brlcadpier: pong
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19:35.23pierbrlcad
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19:45.04CIA-13BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/archer/ (5 files in 5 dirs): include the files in the distribution
19:46.58brlcadpier: best to just ask/speak :)  I'll respond
19:47.53pierok sorry, it is about the II vol
19:49.04pierI'm running through some problem with html conversion from pdf format
19:49.16brlcadeekage
19:49.21brlcadi can imagine
19:49.27brlcadi wouldn't start with that ;)
19:49.32pierI wanted to preserve the template of the document as well as the figures and so on
19:50.22brlcadhow about I provide the document in word format, convert from that to html first
19:50.30pierthe program I've found doesn't want to compile and all I've got is pure txt
19:50.50pierthat woud b great
19:51.30brlcadlet me see if I can find it
19:51.57pierok
20:01.56brlcadfound the files, but waiting from another guy to see which file is the "latest"
20:02.36pierok
20:23.42piersi, la linguetta americana, a mezza luna anche detta woodruff key
20:58.36``Erik(yeah, it was the mime type)
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21:05.23CIA-13BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/doc/html/manuals/ (Makefile.am archer/Makefile.am): include missing stuff in the distribution, add the Makefile.defs for fast builds
21:10.03pier?
21:10.06brlcadat least how la linguetta americana has anything to do with woodruff keys :)
21:10.30brlcadfound the file
21:10.31piersorry typed into the wrong window :(
21:10.34brlcadi know :)
21:10.37pierok
21:11.35pierhow can I get hold of it? :)
21:15.09brlcadexporting, give me a couple minutes
21:16.20piertake it easy
21:26.36brlcadokay, good to go
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22:32.13``Erikbrlcad, 7.6.8 ?
22:41.55brlcad``Erik: yeah
22:42.04brlcaddebating it today
22:42.37brlcadi wasn't going to make a jan release, letting Dec/Jan be our one "downtime" longer iteration
22:51.47brlcadbut then 'someone' complained, so I've been thinking how to do it without stopping what i'm already doing
23:01.10``Erikheh, 'someone'? o.O
Jeff Waugh - find it at freshmeat.net! Modified by Tim Riker to work with blootbot logs, split per channel, etc. irclog2html for #brlcad on 20060119

irclog2html for #brlcad on 20060119

00:19.58CIA-13BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/configure.ac:
00:19.58CIA-13BRL-CAD: search for the tcl/tk stub libraries too, and utilize them accordingly if
00:19.58CIA-13BRL-CAD: someone asks for a system tcl or tk. for now, presume that tcl+tclstub and
00:19.58CIA-13BRL-CAD: tk+tkstub always exist together or at least that it'll link regardless.
00:34.56CIA-13BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/bwish/main.c: modify the auto_path as soon as we have the tcl interpreter so that even resources like tk.tcl may be found when mixing system/non-system tcl with other system/non-system components
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02:08.39CIA-13BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/archer/archer: have archer search the current directory for tclscripts in case we're not installed
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04:05.51justin_haha
04:05.56justin_first article on slashdot
04:06.37CIA-13BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/TODO: mingw is once again delayed a release, archer rises to the list for the current distribution
04:14.18CIA-13BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/TODO: support for features either as primitives or operations or both, e.g. chamfer, fillet, round
04:28.44pra5adlink
04:29.57CIA-13BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/TODO: system identifier application with sysctl-style information database
04:31.50CIA-13BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/TODO: justin's idea of a librt-based path tracer is pretty cool
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04:40.12CIA-13BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/m4/epsilon.m4: while it's bizarre for them to be different, only report a failure to conform if the implementation is epsilon is less than the expected power
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12:24.26d_rossbergwhat's the plan with HAVE_CONFIG_H ?
12:25.14d_rossbergyou need it for every brlcad application, e.g. http://brlcad.org/rtexample.c
12:30.03d_rossbergthis define causes trouble for the users (developers are used to trouble)
13:46.44learnerd_rossberg, the plan for it is to have it go away completely on an install, same for brlcad_config.h, like it is supposed to
13:48.23learneri believe i now have it so that the header file isn't used in common.h if it's installed so that brlcad_config.h may be left uninstalled
13:48.33learnerbut haven't fully checked
13:59.28learnereven with the rtexample.c application, it only uses common.h -- which is supposed to hide the detail of whether you have the define or not and make it so that the config.h doesn't need to be installed for it to work
14:00.13learnerthis was broken for a few releases, requiring you to either provide the define, or add the header, or add a search dir
14:00.30learnershouldn't be the case on cvs head now though
14:13.38d_rossbergrtexample.c includes raytrace.h which includes bu.h which uses the time_t type which requires time.h which is only included if HAVE_TIME_H is defined so "config.h" is required
14:15.33``Erikfucking fuckity fuck fuck fuck
14:17.46d_rossberglerner: your goal is to distinguish between internal and external declarations
14:18.18d_rossbergcommon.h should provide the internal declarations only if required
14:21.40``Eriksean, is justin there?
14:21.50learnerd_rossberg: yes, a mistake in the bu.h header really
14:22.04learner``Erik: i dunno
14:22.14``Erikoh, you're not in the office, ok
14:22.23``ErikI'm thinking about suckering someone into driving me around to buy a new car
14:22.29``Erik*sigh*
14:22.32learnerheh
14:22.42``ErikI blew the tranny out on my truck this morning
14:23.26d_rossberglernaer: what's the mistake, the time_t or the ifdef HAVE_TIME_H?
14:23.33learnerd_rossberg: yes, that is the goal, and config.h is definitely a private header .. bu.h and other headers need to be fixed to remove the HAVE_ defines and system header includes if possible
14:24.21learnerd_rossberg: probably both
14:24.43learnerthe ifdef is fine really, it just can't require what's in the ifdef
14:25.28learnerwell, half-fine -- bad things might then happen if a user provides HAVE_ defines and our header's logic doesn't behave
14:25.35``Erikhey, sean, wanna take the day off, hang with a bud, and cruise by car sales lots? :D *Duck*
14:25.55learnerheh
14:26.39learnerpossibly, though I can't take a day off this week .. already did :)
14:27.04``Erikah, and since you're contractor, I don't think I can donate leave to you
14:28.51``Erik6.2 miles... about 2 hrs
14:31.40d_rossberglerner: at the moment, it looks like you need this defines
14:32.31d_rossberglerner: hiding the internal structures, e.g. casts to void*, requires a large amount of work
14:37.13learnerd_rossberg: i agree, but i do believe it to be the right long-term direction
14:37.24learneror do you have another idea? :)
14:38.42learnerthey should certainly work for internal, which they do now -- it's of course the public external header appearance that will take a fair bit of restructuring
14:39.06learneras I mentioned in the dev e-mail, the bigger problem in my view is the dependency ordering of the headers now
14:39.30learnere.g. *have* to include machine.h before anything, should include vmath.h before raytrace.h, etc
14:40.05learnerthe headers don't function stand-alone, and that I do believe needs fixing
14:42.17d_rossberglearner: that's the classical direction (bringing object orientation into c code)
14:43.08d_rossbergfrom my own experiance i can say: it ends with c++ classes :)
14:45.39d_rossbergbut for now i'll start with adapting "my" projectfiles
14:47.48``Erikphrack
14:53.02Twingy.
15:08.48Twingyheh
15:08.53Twingywhere?
15:10.43``Erikthe new beamer lot
15:11.17Twingyhow far?
15:11.19``Eriky'know when you turn left from 543 to go to my house, then go through a stop light? it's at that light
15:11.25``Erika mile or two
15:11.28``Erikby foot
15:11.33Twingygot a bike?
15:11.35``Erik4 or 5 walking, due to the road geomtry
15:11.50``Erikno :( was actually talking sean and lee into helping me buy one a couple weeks ago
15:11.50``Erikheh
15:11.57Twingymight not be a bad idea to pick one up at a nearby bike store?
15:12.03Twingyah
15:12.03``Erik(I'm a puss, I need people to hold my hand)
15:12.42``Erik'k, lemme think, drivers license, phone, and a copy of my salary w2 for proof of income/employment... damn I shouldn't have left my running shoes at work :(
15:12.53Twingyhrm
15:13.00Twingymaybe lease something new?
15:13.09Twingywhy not do a 24 month lease on a new car?
15:13.10``Erikwell, they have new and used over there
15:13.25``ErikI'll go see what they have, if anything grooves with me, I'll see how fast I can get the keys
15:13.34Twingyheh, k
15:13.40``ErikI have like 15k to throw at it, I'm sure I'll get some wheels
15:13.48Twingyor finance something
15:13.50Twingywith 0 down
15:13.58``Erikooh, that reminds me, check book
15:14.12``Erikok, catch ya'll later
15:14.40Twingylater
15:30.07brlcad``Erik: ping
15:35.08CIA-13BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/other/tkimg/base/Makefile.am: missing trailing slash
16:00.51CIA-13BRL-CAD: 03bob1961 * 10brlcad/src/tclscripts/archer/Archer.tcl: Minor tweaks to the _invoke_wizard_update and _init_obj_edit_view methods.
17:42.05*** join/#brlcad raz (n=rarunaog@pool-141-156-220-116.res.east.verizon.net)
17:45.29razbrlcad: how do you change the  mged status from 'VIEWING' to a status in which we can edit the model?
17:47.37brlcadraz: depends on what you want to edit
17:48.15brlcadyou can edit a primitive with 'sed' (solid edit), edit an object/combination with 'oed'
17:48.32brlcadselecting matrix edit or primitive edit on the menu will get you into an edit mode as well
17:49.19brlcadthe 'sill' solid illuminate command will also take you into solid edit mode
17:52.15raz:brlcad we want to rotate everything in the ktank.g file
18:14.34razbrlcad:need to change the orientation of ktank.g
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19:10.23*** part/#brlcad pier (n=pier@151.56.230.176)
19:10.40razexit
19:20.03``Erikheh
19:28.41*** join/#brlcad clock_ (n=clock@84-72-90-34.dclient.hispeed.ch)
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19:44.12Twingyback?
19:44.31``Erikyeah
19:44.41Twingyand?
19:44.41brlcadand?
19:44.58``Erikdrove a few cars, like 'em, but according to kbb and edmunds, they're overpriced
19:45.06``Erikwondering if I should head down to another dealership
19:45.10``Erikor two
19:45.10Twingyso you ARE getting the honda civic?
19:45.15``Erikheh, no
19:45.25``ErikI drove a cooper mini S, bmw 330xi, and bmw m3
19:45.30Twingyahh, you went with the honda element
19:45.30``Erikthe m3 is... nice.
19:45.38Twingygonna finance?
19:45.42``Erikyeah
19:45.42brlcadheh, of course it is :)
19:45.53Twingyonly $500/mo? :)
19:46.04``Erikthe m3 would be more like 700/mo
19:46.10Twingyeww
19:46.15Twingyhow much is that car?'
19:46.17``Erikfor a 3 yr
19:46.20``Erikthey're asking 36
19:46.43Twingy700 x 36 is $25k
19:46.43``Erik37, even
19:46.51``Erik10k down
19:46.58Twingyah, heh
19:47.02``Erikkbb says 34, edmunds says 31
19:47.03Twingytoo rich for my blood
19:47.11``Erikdude, it's a rocket on wheels
19:47.21TwingyI don't need a rocket on wheels to get to work and back
19:47.46Twingyespecially with half the trip at 40 mph :)
19:49.26Twingycall mike
19:49.29``Erik?
19:49.38Twingyhe's rambling
19:49.50``Erikyou call him
19:49.51``Erikhe won't notice
19:49.57Twingygood point
19:50.23Twingyah, he left on his own, boggle
21:00.58*** join/#brlcad pier (n=pier@151.56.230.176)
21:35.49*** part/#brlcad pier (n=pier@151.56.230.176)
23:33.48``Erikdamn I feel poor
Jeff Waugh - find it at freshmeat.net! Modified by Tim Riker to work with blootbot logs, split per channel, etc. irclog2html for #brlcad on 20060120

irclog2html for #brlcad on 20060120

00:41.48CIA-13BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/librt/db_inmem.c: unused var
01:08.31pra5adget a new ride yet?
01:16.19brlcadyou got it?
01:17.09``Erikayup
01:17.26``Erikit's purdee, and owie fast
01:19.10pra5adnice =)
01:19.11``Erikand, damnit, my intent was to show up tomorrow and say I bought a car real quick and try to trick people into thinking it was a beater
01:19.48``Erikhttp://www.cardomain.com/member_pages/show_image.pl?bg=CCCCCC&image=http://memimage.cardomain.net/member_images/3/web/2043000-2043999/2043648_1_full.jpg
01:20.16``Erikhttp://www.diecastmuscle.com/images/common/thumbnail/375/aa70544c.jpg
01:20.20``Erikhttp://www.diecastmuscle.com/images/common/thumbnail/375/aa70544.jpg
01:20.56``Eriklaguna seca blue, with grey leather interior, luxery package, winter package, moonroof, etc etc etc
01:21.02``Eriknow I'm poor.
01:21.08``Erikbut I have a bitchin' ride.
01:23.57pra5adcant wait to join the club
01:24.10brlcadnice
01:24.38``Erikthe color grated on me at first, but I'm liking it more and more
01:24.43``ErikI guess I'm driving to lunch tomorrow ;)
01:50.54phcoderdamn - i won't see it 'til tuesday...
01:50.57phcodernice
01:53.13``Erikand I'm gonna park it as close to the front door as possible. Bitch. :D
01:53.19phcoderhaha!
01:53.29phcoderhave fun. you get in too damn late.
01:53.35phcoderyou'll never get a spot.
01:53.39``Erikindeed
01:53.46``Eriklast week, I had to park in the grass :(
01:53.48``Erikright next to rons car
01:53.52phcoderi saw that, jeez
01:54.00``Erikauten did, too
01:54.10``Erikmaybe with this car, I'll wake up at 6am and go OMFGIWANTTODRIVE
01:54.10phcoderextra people in the compound or something?
01:54.11``Erik:D
01:54.14``Erikno clue
01:54.17phcoder:-)
01:54.22phcoderi would
01:54.24``ErikI did two loops, john did one... we both went into the grass
01:54.26phcoderi love driving
01:54.58``ErikI got sick of it... but it may've been because my truck was underpowered, had vibration issues (bad ujoint or something) and no radio...
01:55.05``ErikI d'no
01:55.07``ErikI'm giddy
01:55.11``ErikI spent the last hour sitting in it
01:55.12phcoderyeah - you get xm?
01:55.16phcoder:-D
01:55.20``Erikno
01:55.24``Erik'01
01:55.28phcoder6 disc cd
01:55.31``Erikcheck it out, dude, cassette tape in the dash
01:55.31phcoder?
01:55.37phcoderit's an 01?
01:55.38``Erikand 6 cd in the trunk
01:55.39``Erikyeah
01:55.40phcodernot new?
01:55.43``Erikno :(
01:55.45``ErikI'm po'
01:55.47phcoderstill looks sweet
01:55.49``Erikand I needed something NOW
01:55.53``Erik29k miles
01:55.58``Erikso not too far from new
01:55.59phcoderdude - it's a f'n sweet car
01:56.04phcoderwho cares if its not new
01:56.15phcoderno kidding
01:56.20``Erikcold weather package, luxury package, moon roof, ...
01:56.21phcoderthat's pretty low for an 01
01:56.24``Erikwas probably a 70k car new
01:56.31phcoderi'm over that for an 03
01:56.38phcoderyeah
01:57.16phcoderhow can you be po' ?? you don't have a kid ;-)
01:57.27``Erikheh
01:57.34phcoderoh wait - all those microbrews ;-)
01:57.36``ErikI dont' have a whif bringing in like 20 bucks a week, either
01:57.37``Erik:D
01:57.53phcoder$20????????
01:57.56``Erikmicrobrews and copious consumption of high grade spirits. My booze budget took a hit today.
01:57.58phcoderthat would be nice :-)
01:58.12``Erikno more $200/mo :(
01:58.24``Erikand I'll probably start bringing food in for lunch
01:58.25``Erikheh
01:58.27phcodernope
01:58.29``Erikso po'
01:58.36phcoderwhich is good - cause you can't drink and drive
01:58.50``Erikhopefully the machine is as intoxicating as the intoxicants
01:58.59``Erikit's so damn prett
01:59.00``Eriky
01:59.01phcodershould be
01:59.14``Erik6 gears, and every single one of them will get me in trouble
01:59.20phcodercan't wait to see it - we can all live vicariously through you
01:59.23``Erikheh
01:59.33phcoderjust don't kill it like your truck
01:59.37``Erikor you can whup that whifs bottom until she brings home the bacon ;)
01:59.43phcoderyeah right
01:59.45``Erikoddly enough, I've felt no urge to floor it
01:59.53phcoderodd. yes.
01:59.54``Erikand my truck got over 10 years
01:59.55*** join/#brlcad DTRemenak (n=DTRemena@DHCP-170-143.caltech.edu)
02:00.16``ErikI think having rice stomping power at my disposal makes me... complacent
02:00.21``ErikI don't need to prove anything with it
02:00.30phcoderheh
02:00.36``Erikodd
02:00.42``Erikbut it's sooo damn pretty
02:00.53phcoderjust wait till you pull up next to an a8 - they always want to race
02:00.55phcoderdon't know why
02:00.59``Erikheh
02:01.14``Erikcuz some dumbass paid $80k for a v8 audi... they have to prove it's not a puss car
02:01.16``ErikO:-)
02:01.23phcoderright
02:02.10``ErikI have a feeling that I'm gonna be coming off of lights nice and easy, and morons will be bragging about roasting an m3 with their hopped up civic on fag boards
02:02.21``Erikbut, y'know, that's ok :)
02:02.30phcoderthat's fun. cause you know it ain'
02:02.33phcodert true
02:02.35``ErikI have metal sex in my garage right now
02:02.43phcoderhaha
02:03.09``Erikstill wanna fix my truck and drive it when ti's snowey/slushy/icy, tho
02:03.27phcodermight be a good idea, unless the fix costs too much
02:03.36``Erikrather artard ran into the truck than the car when they figure out that 4wd on an suv doesn't mean it stops any better
02:04.41``Erik<-- ponders switching the suspension to sport and turning off traction control on the drive to work tomorrow o.O
02:04.46``Erikjust to see what too fucking much is
02:04.47``Erik:D
02:05.04phcoder"switching" ?
02:05.08``Erikyeah
02:05.17phcoderdamn thing can dynamically adjust suspension parameters?
02:05.20``Erikthe suspension has normal sports mode, th en another "super sports" mode
02:05.26``Erikhit a button on the dash and it changes
02:05.30phcoderha
02:05.41CIA-13BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/liboptical/Makefile.am: heh, fPIC breaks irix compiler (they use DPIC)
02:05.48``Erikseveral 'sporty' cars can do it, even 'vettes...
02:06.13``Erikthis car will make me it's bitch, I know it o.O
02:06.28phcoderwatch out...
02:06.29``Erikif I hadn't been drinking when I told my parents, I'd be driving right now
02:06.48``Erikit's got almost as much hp as my old c10, and it's way smaller/lighter
02:07.10``Erikand so many buttons
02:07.13``Erikand pretty lights
02:07.15``Erikand knobs
02:15.04``Erikhttp://members.iinet.net.au/~pontipak/redsquare.html
02:17.16pra5adwhats the latest gl version for fbsd?
02:17.22pra5ad1.5?
02:17.24``Erikum, whatever comes with X
02:17.31``Erikprobably 1.5, unless you use the nvidia driver
02:17.41pra5adhrm
02:17.44``Erikwhich is like 1.4+
02:17.46``Erikiirc
02:17.58pra5adarb promoted ext_vbo in 1.5
02:18.15pra5adwondering if i should build against that
02:18.39``Erikyou should look to see if it's available, at runtime, and provide a backup path if it is not
02:18.40``Erik:)
02:19.11pra5advboARB(), yes.. but not the promoted ones (sans ARB postfix)
02:19.19pra5admeh
02:20.03pra5adill stick to 1.4 spec
02:20.26``Erikyou're supporting windows... if you're not gonna do fallback paths, you should stick to 1.1... o.O :D
02:21.38pra5adgood point
02:23.14``Erika sad point, but *shrug* competition to d3d will not be tolerated O.o
02:26.48pra5adthat's going to be a major headache
02:27.01pra5adat least im not using anything besides vbo
02:27.02``Erikwindows is a major headache, yes :)
02:27.09``Erikwell
02:27.12pra5ad(for now)
02:27.18``Erikthat's why you query and provide secondary paths
02:27.26``Erikthe drivers themselves support all this shit
02:27.30``Erikit's just... hard to get to
02:27.30pra5adthat was the plan, until i saw the 1.5 spec
02:28.03``Eriksdl even has cross platform query/lookup functions
02:28.23``Eriknot as slick as dlopen()/dlsym(), but windows won't let that happen :)
02:29.21pra5adphew varrays are 1.1
02:32.54pra5adnooo rangeelements is 1.2 =(
03:09.43*** join/#brlcad justin_ (n=justin@pcp0011649600pcs.aberdn01.md.comcast.net)
03:11.02justin_so what car are you getting?
03:12.35pra5ad* ``Erik pets his m3
03:15.29``Erikgot me a bmw m3
03:15.37``Erik<-- does some pelvic thrusts
03:25.26justin_what's that do to the new house purchase?
03:27.25justin_how long of a lease
03:30.34``Erikfinancing, not leasing, 5 yr, and it puts the house off a bit :(
03:30.54``Erikin the long term, I fucked up... but it's so damn pretty...
03:31.33justin_heh
03:33.42``ErikI spoze once in a while, you just have to be stupid and enjoy life ;)
03:34.06phcoderelse - why do you make money? :-P
03:35.34justin_to fund a small research company when you get into your 40's :D
03:35.45phcoderthat too...
03:36.01``Erikok, dude, you fund one, and bring me in as a parter ;) *duck*
03:36.28justin_riiiight
04:45.13brlcadow
04:45.46brlcadsweet car ``Erik
04:45.53phcoderthey were already dead...
04:46.09brlcadthey weren't even close to dead
04:46.15brlcadwasn't even sore
04:46.17phcoder"no sir, they're already dead"
04:46.24brlcadnow they're dead
04:46.27brlcadand hurting
04:46.36phcoderhaha
04:47.28phcoder:-)
04:47.29brlcaddid a lot more bench too, that should be sore too now
04:47.48phcodersays "take a hike"
04:47.55brlcadbut..
04:47.59phcoderbut?
04:48.02brlcadno straps
04:48.07brlcadsomeone must have walked off with them
04:48.09phcodersomeone stole them
04:48.18phcoderunethical weak bastards
04:48.23brlcadrather "claimed" them
04:48.26phcodersure
04:48.42phcoder"claim" is the operative word
04:48.44phcoderjeez
04:50.03brlcadsome skinny guy passed out
04:50.17brlcadhe was delerious for like 10 minutes
04:50.26brlcadthen the paramedics came
04:50.30phcoderthat's embarassing
04:50.32brlcadpretty eventful
04:50.54brlcadi can't quite figure out how, though, unless he was diabetic or something
04:50.58phcodersupposed to go to the men's room before passing out
04:51.00brlcadhe was on the machines
04:51.06phcoderso the chicks can't see you do it
04:51.09brlcadnear a pec deck of all things
04:51.14phcoder?
04:51.35brlcadhard to "get dizzy" on the machines
04:52.05phcoderright
04:52.06brlcadnot impossible, just.. harder (to me at least)
04:52.31brlcadnow squats.. or deadlifts .. or legpress.. or cleans..
04:52.39brlcadcompletely understandable :)
04:53.33phcoderyup
08:47.40CIA-13BRL-CAD: 03d_rossberg * 10brlcad/ (5 files in 5 dirs): set HAVE_CONFIG_H to get internal declarations
08:51.07CIA-13BRL-CAD: 03d_rossberg * 10brlcad/src/librt/librt.dsp:
08:51.07CIA-13BRL-CAD: set HAVE_CONFIG_H to get internal declarations,
08:51.07CIA-13BRL-CAD: db_flags.c, db_inmem.c added
08:54.10CIA-13BRL-CAD: 03d_rossberg * 10brlcad/misc/win32-msvc/Dll/brlcad.rc: update copyright to 2006
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11:25.16pra5admm no sleep
11:25.34pra5adthis is gonna be fun..
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14:31.58Twingy.
15:48.54Twingyb
15:57.25Twingymissed a good segment with john stewart making fun of the querbecois prime minister elections :)
15:58.06MaloeranEh :), federal elections are a real joke as always
16:00.36MaloeranYou wouldn't be good at finding the roots of 11th-13th degree polynomials, Justin? :) It must be my lack of formal math education, I'm not doing too well on this
16:01.29Twingysolve them numerically with newtons method
16:01.43MaloeranJust playing with curved surface equations to see if it's possible to get something to be solved directly, without Newton's or Laguerre's iterations, for ray intersections that is
16:02.05Twingyit can be shown you cannot solve them implicitly if the degree is higher than 3
16:02.37MaloeranThere are often other methods, but no generic solution, it depends of the problem
16:02.41Twingyif the roots are constants you could cache them
16:04.55MaloeranI have something that's relatively cheap to compute, and the first guesses would be good enough ( 2-3 Newton's iterations should do ), but I'm still dreaming of a solution solvable algebrically
16:05.03Twingynope
16:05.06Twingywon't happen
16:05.12Twingyyou learn this in calculus 1
16:05.57Twingycan you make the problem piecewise cubic?
16:06.14Twingythen you can solve it algebraicly if you maintain C2 continuity
16:06.31MaloeranFourth degree polynomials can be easily solved too, I'm exploring solutions still
16:07.03TwingyI suspect your cheapest route will be picewise cubic
16:08.42MaloeranPossibly... The equations can be fairly simple for primitive curved surfaces, it would be so elegant if it could be solved directly
16:09.24Twingynot gonna happen if you go above quartic
16:10.32CIA-13BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/doc/README.MacOSX: build failure on os x 10.2 is a known issue
16:12.05MaloeranI thought some problems above 4th degree can be solved agebrically, under particular circumstances
16:12.58Twingycircumstances such as?
16:13.37Twingymmm almost lunch time
16:14.31MaloeranSuch as y = x^4-2 ? ;) Some Norwegian math PhD I briefly spoke to said the equations might be solvable, he would have required much time to verify this though
16:15.02MaloeranAst's friend, if you followed #siggraph discussions
16:15.29clock_Twingy: what does twingy mean?
16:15.47Twingyit means twingy
16:16.44Twingyyou can solve that
16:17.56MaloeranI meant f(x)=x^5-2 or so, above 4th degree doesn't mean it can't be solved, but there's no generic solution
16:22.44CIA-13BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/ (BUGS TODO): add bugs and feature requests observed during the 2005 winter brl-cad user training at survice.
16:23.11Twingylunch
16:26.13joevalleyfieldwith one root solved by newton's method to some degree of accuracy, couldn't you use synthetic divisions to factor out that root and reduce the degree of everything else by 1
16:27.30MaloeranI suppose, but considering it's for ray-tracing, the first intersection is likely to be all I need
16:28.20joevalleyfieldso doubtful there is any better way to solve your first root than numeric approximation
16:28.21MaloeranWell Justin, I would be interested in discussing some ideas regarding the use of "meshes" of simple curved facets, sometimes during the week-end or so.  Not as flexible as Nurbs, not as fast as triangles, but I think it's a fairly interesting compromise
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18:18.05brlcadMaloeran: if you're interested in trying the newtonian method quick-like, brl-cad's libbn has a simple root solver that does this
18:18.56brlcaddoes a variation of a newtonian search, simplification of polynomials, quick solutions for lower orders, and other methods, returning an array of the roots
18:21.29joevalleyfieldmay i buy a vowel?
18:22.05brlcadmuch better
18:22.16brlcadsilly ?nic?de
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18:50.27brlcadb?rk!
18:51.20Twingy\/ping flood pra5ad_work
18:51.25Twingy:)
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19:24.38``Erikjust log in and sigterm him
19:24.51``Erikor walk upstairs and sigterm him upside the head :D
19:32.00pra5ad_worki heard the m3 ping flooding, leaving grumpys
19:40.21``Erik/. has some links for real mac ppc vs intel comparisons o.O
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19:59.05pra5ad_workbrlcad
19:59.55pra5ad_worki can only find g2asc
20:00.03brlcadexplain
20:00.11pra5ad_workwhat was the g2bot convertor name
20:00.22pra5ad_worku mentioned earlier
20:00.55brlcad$ /usr/brlcad/bin/g-
20:00.55brlcadg-acad        g-dxf         g-euclid1     g-jack        g-nmg         g-off         g-stl         g-vrml        
20:00.58brlcadg-adrt        g-euclid      g-iges        g-nff         g-obj         g-shell.rect  g-tankill     g-x3d
20:01.17pra5ad_workah
20:01.30brlcadg-nmg
20:01.34brlcadthen nmg-bot iirc
20:02.35brlcad$ foo="`ls |grep -i bot | grep -v '\.'`" && echo $foo
20:02.35brlcadbot-bldxf bot-raw bot_shell-vtk nmg-bot poly-bot
20:02.41pra5ad_workr g-nmg -b ?
20:02.44pra5ad_workor*
20:02.52brlcadyep
20:07.18CIA-13BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/mged/clone.c: reuse VUNITIZE_TOL from vmath instead of something new
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20:12.18pra5ad_workoook.. g-nmg core dumped on t62.g
20:12.27Twingyuser error
20:14.11brlcadpra5ad_work: backtrace?
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20:17.11pra5ad_workhttp://pastebin.com/515083
20:17.57pra5ad_workbrlcad
20:17.58pra5ad_workbrlcad
20:17.58pra5ad_workbrlcad
20:18.30brlcadpunk
20:18.58``Erikwant me to walk around the corner and smack him for you?
20:19.30Twingyif you wouldn't mind :)
20:20.33``Erikmark's in there
20:20.52pra5ad_workyes he is
20:21.21``Erikcan't be bitchslappin' with a witness
20:21.45pra5ad_workkey + m3 = protection
20:21.49pra5ad_work^_^
20:28.13CIA-13BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/conv/g-nmg.c: prevent a sigsegv when the region can't be evaluated successfully
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20:30.58CIA-13BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/NEWS: prevent g-nmg segfault during tesselation
20:47.22*** part/#brlcad pier (n=pier@151.56.218.157)
21:17.19CIA-13BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/mged/clone.c: check clone args a little more consistently
21:41.29*** join/#brlcad DTRemenak (n=DTRemena@DHCP-170-143.caltech.edu)
22:02.16*** join/#brlcad DTRemenak (n=DTRemena@DHCP-170-143.caltech.edu)
22:06.49*** join/#brlcad pra5ad (n=pra5ad@pool-141-157-110-14.balt.east.verizon.net)
22:07.03pra5ad36 hrs.. no sleep
22:07.07pra5adla tortura
22:09.14MaloeranThat can't be very productive
22:09.30TwingyI want vodka
22:12.10Twingyin 5 hours maybe
22:12.24TwingyI have 2 pieces of drywall to put up, spackling and some painting
22:37.09``Erikhah
22:38.01Twingyoh, maybe 7 hours, I have to watch stargate too
22:44.27CIA-13BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/rt/rtexample.c: main returns an int
23:49.27*** join/#brlcad DTRemenak (n=DTRemena@DHCP-170-143.caltech.edu)
Jeff Waugh - find it at freshmeat.net! Modified by Tim Riker to work with blootbot logs, split per channel, etc. irclog2html for #brlcad on 20060121

irclog2html for #brlcad on 20060121

00:03.00CIA-13BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/include/bu.h: remove the unnecessary time_t type from the public header so that the dependency on time.h may be eliminated
00:22.55CIA-13BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/libbu/mappedfile.c: cast the time_t to a long so we don't need to necessarily stash a time_t in the mappedfile structure any more
00:27.15CIA-13BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/util/roots_example.c: add a simple example application that shows how to use the root solver for solving polynomial roots (up to 4th order shown)
00:32.52CIA-13BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/util/roots_example.c: might as well add a linear root example too, fix type on rt_poly_roots()
00:33.19CIA-13BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/util/Makefile.am: add roots_example.c as a sample application that uses the root solver
00:35.46CIA-13BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/util/.cvsignore: ignore the roots_example binary
00:37.35CIA-13BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/NEWS: new example root solving sample application
00:38.45CIA-13BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/NEWS: oops, put roots_example into the right release block
00:43.04CIA-13BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/NEWS: 7.8 will likely be released in february
00:51.39CIA-13BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/misc/Makefile.am: don't include enigma's CVS directory in the distribution
00:53.29CIA-13BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/misc/Makefile.am: scratch that, the test will be moved to the top-level makefile so NO cvs dirs get included
00:58.40CIA-13BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/Makefile.am: delete any CVS directories from our candidate distribution since we don't want to ship them
01:32.36CIA-13BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/NEWS: mention the name of the new root solving application, roots_example.
01:42.12CIA-13BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/NEWS: (log message trimmed)
01:42.12CIA-13BRL-CAD: Forgot to mention that considerable time was spent profiling and
01:42.12CIA-13BRL-CAD: optimizing the raytracer. in particular, performance enhancements
01:42.12CIA-13BRL-CAD: were made in support of reducing large image overhead and some
01:42.12CIA-13BRL-CAD: unnecessary pixel processing. this is particularly important for
01:42.13CIA-13BRL-CAD: background pixels, i.e. primary rays that miss the model. performance
01:42.17CIA-13BRL-CAD: observed varies based on number of primary rays and the number that
03:01.28justin_present and accounted for
03:03.58phcodergoodness - someone would think you have nothing else to do ;-)
03:12.47*** join/#brlcad PrezKennedy (n=Apathy@pcp010175pcs.dover01.de.comcast.net)
03:56.44brlcadthere's something else to do?
03:58.08phcoder:-)
03:58.32phcoderyeah - don't ask *me* what , though...
04:15.09justin_mmm, only 1 small piece of drywall left
04:42.40kaoldoes http://www.kb.cert.org/vuls/id/378049 concern the version of urt included with brlcad?
04:52.53brlcadkaol: no, it doesn't
04:53.46brlcadkaol: that was fixed in brl-cad with release 7.0.4, January of last year iirc
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08:25.34*** join/#brlcad DarkMaster (n=Apathy@68.33.243.45)
09:05.22*** join/#brlcad clock_ (n=clock@84-72-63-231.dclient.hispeed.ch)
11:08.41kaolbrlcad: ok, good to know. thanks.
11:30.44*** join/#brlcad phcoder (n=phcoder@pcp0011650294pcs.aberdn01.md.comcast.net)
14:33.05pra5admm 16 hrs of sleep
15:39.18*** join/#brlcad ``Erik (i=erik@pcp0011474399pcs.chrchv01.md.comcast.net)
16:37.33pra5adbrlcad, http://pastebin.com/516214
16:37.36pra5ad7.7.0
16:37.56pra5adack
16:38.06pra5adco'd wrong vers
16:38.07pra5ad:D
16:40.20brlcadlooking
16:42.19pra5adwhat module name should i co?
16:42.28pra5adsince head is buggy
16:42.35pra5ader tag
16:43.57pra5ador is 7.7.0 head supposed to work
16:44.03brlcadit's not buggy, did you even read the error? :)
16:44.19pra5adcourse i didnt
16:46.44brlcadhm interesting that it's caring, but it's valid.. missing a header
16:47.09brlcadadd a #include "pkg.h" into src/libfb/fb_generic.c before the #include "fb.h"
16:47.41pra5adu gonna commit the change?
16:49.12pra5adsame thing in fb_log.c
16:50.03brlcadyeah, it needs to go into the header
16:50.07brlcadnot the c files
16:50.13pra5adin fb.h?
16:50.14brlcadadd it to include/fb.h
16:50.16pra5adk
16:50.34brlcadthat's what I edited here, but still testing
16:51.28pra5adcompile went thru
16:52.12CIA-13BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/include/fb.h: framebuffer interface is presently tied to the network package library due to a return type, should decouple that
16:52.44brlcaddo you have an sf.net account?
16:53.28brlcadah, never mind
16:53.47brlcadso yeah, you can just cvs up ..
16:54.23pra5adyea
16:54.53pra5adcvs commit -m"uh.. cos it didn't work.."
16:54.56pra5ad;)
16:55.17brlcadactually it did, wierd
16:55.25brlcadwhat compiler?
16:56.04pra5adgcc 4.0.2
16:57.06pra5adgcc version 4.0.2 20050808 (prerelease) (Ubuntu 4.0.1-4ubuntu9)
16:57.48pra5adhmm
16:57.50pra5adyacc -d  points_parse.y
16:57.50pra5admake[4]: yacc: Command not found
16:57.50pra5admake[4]: *** [points_parse.c] Error 127
16:57.58pra5adconfigure didnt complain..
16:59.48brlcadahhh, ubuntie
17:00.06brlcadyeah, configure doesn't abort, it just defaults
17:00.12brlcadinstall bison
17:00.25brlcadand lex
17:00.28brlcadflex
17:02.40CIA-13BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/libfb/pkgswitch.c: pkg.h isn't a local header
17:03.19CIA-13BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/libfb/fbserv_obj.c: pkgtypes.h is in current dir, no need to couple to the directory name
17:04.03pra5adhttp://pastebin.com/516246
17:04.45brlcadpra5ad: what's YACC set to in your Makefile s
17:05.12pra5adtop level Makefile?
17:05.17brlcadany of them
17:05.31pra5adYACC = yacc
17:05.38brlcadand LEX ?
17:05.54pra5adLEX = ${SHELL} /home/prasad/brlcad/misc/missing --run flex
17:06.20brlcadgrep YACC config.log
17:06.56pra5ad:. grep YACC config.log
17:06.56pra5adYACC='yacc'
17:07.17brlcadah, interesting
17:07.40pra5adi installed bison and flex
17:07.47brlcadso I can add a test that shuts that part of mged off if a yacc isn't installed based on that I think
17:08.38brlcaddo the same grep for LEX
17:09.15pra5ad:. grep LEX config.log
17:09.15pra5adLEX='${SHELL} /home/prasad/brlcad/misc/missing --run flex'
17:09.15pra5adLEXLIB=''
17:09.15pra5adLEX_OUTPUT_ROOT=''
17:10.08brlcadthat's what's causing the other error
17:10.11brlcadLEX_OUTPUT_ROOT
17:10.17brlcadyou don't have a lexer
17:10.29brlcadinstall flex
17:10.36brlcad(and bison if you didn't yet)
17:10.44pra5adi did (read up)
17:10.52brlcadrerun autogen.sh/configure
17:10.53pra5adbut i guess i should have reconfed
17:11.06brlcador forgo autogen.sh
17:11.12brlcadbut rm -rf *cache*
17:18.56CIA-13BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/configure.ac: use AC_PROG_LEX instead of AM_PROG_LEX since the latter attempts to use the missing script to run flex but fails miserably due to the assumptions by automake that LEX_OUTPUT_ROOT will be set to something.
17:22.06pra5ad#
17:22.06pra5ad#ifdef __cplusplus
17:22.06pra5ad#
17:22.06pra5adextern "C" {
17:22.06pra5ad#
17:22.06pra5ad#endif
17:22.31pra5adis that acceptable for cross platform?
17:23.32pra5adseems redundant to me.. *shrug*
17:27.04brlcadredundant?
17:27.07brlcadwhere do you see that?
17:27.50brlcadyou shouldn't have to do the extern thing -- there's some header missing its label
17:28.12brlcadas we already do that for most of the headers if __cplusplus is defined
17:28.23brlcadalbeit more cleanly than that
17:28.35pra5adah
17:31.32brlcadthat's the "__BEGIN_DECLS" and "__END_DECLS" in the headers
17:31.48brlcadif you can make the fix to the headers so you don't have to do that in your code, commit the fix ;)
17:32.20pra5adfix what
17:32.41brlcadi'd told you to add the extern "C" { #include "blah" }
17:33.15brlcadnow that you're working with head.. what file does it abort on if you remove the extern "C"
17:33.36brlcadmight as well fix the real problem
17:35.24pra5adohh the problem from yesterday
17:35.38pra5adgimme sec
17:36.58pra5adhttp://pastebin.com/516292
17:37.03pra5ad(brlcad make)
17:42.29brlcaddid you do a make clean there first
17:42.32brlcadlooks dirty
17:43.04brlcadyyin and yylex are still flex/bison issues
17:43.12pra5adk
18:13.07pra5adsame thing
18:13.09pra5adi did make clean
18:17.21``Eriktry distclean?
18:18.21``ErikI had problems with that, too... on fbsd o.O mged/points...
18:18.31``ErikI wonder if my 'fix' broke it on whatever you're using :-/
18:18.57``Erikthat points shit is a shoddyassed piece of shit anyways, we should figure out who wrote it and beat their ass O:-D
18:20.32brlcadit's the shizzle
18:20.35brlcadfo rizzle
18:20.51brlcadgoing to add more parsers too
18:21.04brlcadmost of the converters should have been written as parsers
18:21.46pra5adso whats the fix
18:21.50pra5adtry distclean?
18:24.26``Erikare you building "in dir" or "out of dir"?
18:25.25brlcadhm
18:25.31brlcadsend me your config.log
18:25.48brlcadand your src/mged/points/Makefile
18:26.15``Erikgiven the errors, I would ASSUME that the C sean wrote makes assumptions about the output of lex, and your lex is not producing appropriate output... perhaps a different version, or a misassumed flag
18:26.59``Erik(like, maybe you're using classic lex, or something other than flex...)
18:26.59brlcadi would think that too, cept he supposedly installed flex and bison
18:27.06``Erikyeah, but
18:27.18``Erika) did it find flex, or some other lex
18:27.20``Erikand b) did it add the right flags to lex
18:27.28brlcadtrue, why I wanted the config.log
18:27.51brlcadcould be AC_PROG_LEX is busted for older autoconfs
18:28.01``Erikadditionally, more of the paste (like the lex call, libtool call, etc) may be useful
18:28.08brlcadpra5ad: what version of autoconf/automake/libtool are you using?
18:28.24``Eriklex, too
18:28.42brlcad12:35  * pra5ad is slow
18:29.41brlcadheh
18:32.15pra5adyo back
18:33.02pra5ad2.59, 1.9.5, 1.5.6
18:33.21pra5adflex: 2.5.31
18:33.37pra5adbison 2.0
18:33.43brlcadhmm, the versions are good, so should figure out what's up
18:33.45``Erikthose're all awfully recent
18:33.55brlcadcan you get me a shell account?
18:34.06brlcadthat'd make this worlds easier
18:34.49pra5adno can do
18:34.58brlcad``Erik: yeah, i'm thinking that might be the problem if something was changed in a never version (or if it's a bonefide bug or a code assumption)
18:35.07pra5adu want config.log and points/Makefile ?
18:36.09``Erikcd src/mged/points ; make clean ; make 2>&1 > something ; /dcc send brlcad /path/too/src/mged/points/something
18:36.11``Erik?
18:37.45pra5adblarg.. did distclean
18:37.48pra5adgimme a few
18:42.59brlcadhmm BEP have a track that pra5ad should listen to
18:44.04pra5ad'shut up' ?
18:46.18brlcadnaope
18:48.27pra5ad'say goodbye' ?
18:48.37brlcadnope
18:48.52brlcadheh, nothing like that
18:48.56pra5ad'love wont wait' ?
18:51.10pra5ad'latin girls'
18:51.10pra5admmm
18:51.50brlcadit's in filipino
18:52.01brlcadbebot
18:53.15brlcadthis might play it http://sg1.allmusic.com/cg/smp.dll?r=20.asx&link=qten59muiakp2xuyu23dxhg
18:53.22pra5adheard the itms preview
18:53.26pra5adwhatd i miss
19:12.06*** join/#brlcad pra5ad_ (n=pra5ad@pool-141-157-99-61.balt.east.verizon.net)
19:12.16pra5ad_grr
19:19.41brlcadyay, real irc client
19:20.31justin_heh
19:25.28pra5ad_i was on this client b4..
19:30.38CIA-13BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/mged/cmd.c: disable the parse_points command conditionally depending on new configure checks for yacc/lex, output a message if it was disabled
19:31.10pra5adwell the distclean + make fixed it
19:35.36CIA-13BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/mged/Makefile.am: conditionally traverse into and link against the points subdirectory based on whether WITH_PARSERS was declared by configure after testing for yacc/lex.
19:41.32CIA-13BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/configure.ac:
19:41.32CIA-13BRL-CAD: add tests to determine whether we successfully found a system bison/flex
19:41.32CIA-13BRL-CAD: yacc/lex tool pair for making parsers. if either isn't found, the parsers that
19:41.33CIA-13BRL-CAD: are written to utilize them are disabled to prevent compile errors and a warning
19:41.33CIA-13BRL-CAD: is output. if they are availabe WITH_PARSERS is provided to the makefiles and
19:41.35CIA-13BRL-CAD: BC_WITH_PARSERS is defined for code to conditionally test against.
19:58.35brlcadpra5ad: does your src/mged/points/points_parse.c have a previous_linebuffer declaration near the top (and a full/usual brl-cad header and #includes?)?
20:00.19``Erik"b4"? is 'efore' really that much more difficult to type than the r-tard style '4'? o.O
20:04.16pra5adbrlcad, doesn't look like it
20:04.50pra5adhas the brlcad header + #includes
20:05.12brlcadwhat are the includes?
20:05.52pra5adextern char previous_linebuffer[];  (found this after the brlcad header)
20:06.13pra5ad#include "common.h"
20:06.13pra5ad#include <stdio.h>
20:06.13pra5ad#include <stdlib.h>
20:06.13pra5ad#include <string.h>
20:06.13pra5ad#include "./count.h"
20:06.14pra5ad#include "./process.h"
20:06.23brlcadah, so you DO have it :P
20:06.55pra5adeye-balled the stuff above the header =)
20:08.02brlcadi think I see why it's complaining, but I can't fathom why they'd do that
20:08.40brlcador if that's even really what's going on
20:09.07brlcadhere's a better one, main.c -- you have an extern FILE *yyin; at the top yes?
20:10.33pra5adyes
20:13.59brlcadthen the errors make no sense
20:14.41pra5adwell it does now (and i am able to compile it successfully)
20:14.46pra5adafter the distclean
20:17.51CIA-13BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/mged/cmd.c: er, if BC_WITH_PARSERS is NOT defined..
20:37.00pra5adbrlcad, http://pastebin.com/516529
20:37.14pra5ad(g-nmg -b -o bot.g t62.g component)
20:42.01brlcad``Erik: updating freshmeat to .4 before updating to .6 just so you know
20:42.33brlcadpra5ad: thanks, looking
20:48.10CIA-13BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/conv/g-nmg.c: ah, r may be null from td_r when traversing
20:48.27brlcadpra5ad: ah, same crash, protected wrong var
20:48.30brlcadtry that
21:10.00brlcadpra5ad: how's that?
21:10.19CIA-13BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/conv/ (11 files): a little less excitement about regions that evaluate to nothing, still report it if we're verbose a little more consistently.
21:10.37pra5adworked
21:11.00brlcaddid it convert correctly?
21:11.01pra5adTried 1009 regions, 1005 converted successfully.  99.6036%
21:11.12brlcadinteresting..
21:11.49brlcadtry this, g-nmg without the -b, then nmg-bot instead
21:12.23brlcadhow many succeed without the -b too
21:13.17pra5adhmm in mged one of the left hubs is missing
21:13.28pra5adchecking now
21:15.39pra5adgot this:
21:15.44pra5ad<PROTECTED>
21:15.44pra5ad<PROTECTED>
21:15.44pra5adclass_lu_vs_s: loop transits plane of shell/face?
21:15.44pra5adbu_bomb(): taking longjmp up to application handler
21:15.45pra5adFAILED: /r728
21:18.19brlcadtry just that region by itself, does it succeed?
21:18.49pra5adwaiting for component to finish
21:21.14pra5adTried 1009 regions, 1006 converted successfully.  99.7027%
21:22.15pra5adStarting program: /usr/brlcad/bin/g-nmg -o t62nmg.g t62.g r728
21:22.16pra5ad[Thread debugging using libthread_db enabled]
21:22.16pra5ad[New Thread -1214351680 (LWP 27581)]
21:22.16pra5ad<PROTECTED>
21:22.16pra5adclass_lu_vs_s: loop transits plane of shell/face?
21:22.17pra5adbu_bomb(): taking longjmp up to application handler
21:22.18pra5adFAILED: /r728
21:22.19brlcadthat difference of 1 is the one that was causing the crash
21:22.20pra5adTried 1 regions, 0 converted successfully.  0%
21:22.22pra5adProgram exited normally.
21:22.24pra5ad(gdb)
21:22.44brlcadcool, so it's repeatable
21:23.01pra5adeh? the output both times compoleted successfully
21:23.07pra5adcompleted*
21:23.27pra5adthe conversion i mean; without any crashes
21:25.49brlcadwell, not crashing doesn't mean it was "successful"
21:25.58brlcadit should never crash
21:26.02brlcadeven if it can't convert
21:26.20brlcadthat crash was specific to the -b option, so nobody noticed
21:26.38brlcadsomehow it's a loopless non-empty shell
21:26.50brlcadwhich shouldn't exist easily
21:28.03pra5adso the converted .g should be valid, albeit without the failed regions?
21:29.27brlcadright
21:29.49brlcadit that t62a perchance?
21:30.49pra5adno
21:30.57pra5adt62.g
21:30.59pra5adused in m3
21:32.13clock_what is t62 and m3? tanks?
21:33.52brlcadt62 is a tank
21:33.53brlcadm3 is an analysis package
21:33.53pra5adin a way; t62 IS a tank, while the other acts like one
21:33.53brlcadheh
21:34.06pra5adrunning nmg on havoc
22:05.31pra5adgood god havoc is still going
22:28.00*** join/#brlcad clock_ (n=clock@84-72-63-231.dclient.hispeed.ch)
23:31.40``Erikheh
23:32.31``ErikI will not call muves-3 "m3", it would sully the awesomeness of my new machine.
23:32.35``Erik:D
23:34.01``Eriksean, there should probably be a brlcad release checklist... to make sure every little tidbit is done, no? (yeah, yeah, documented procedure... but the difference between this and the klugefuck of moronity at work is that we're documenting an existing procedure, not trying to dictate an imaginary procedure via documentation...)
Jeff Waugh - find it at freshmeat.net! Modified by Tim Riker to work with blootbot logs, split per channel, etc. irclog2html for #brlcad on 20060122

irclog2html for #brlcad on 20060122

01:55.25brlcad``Erik: there already is one, has been one ever since it was open source
01:55.31brlcadit's in the TODO file
01:55.42brlcadincludes checklists for the next two releases
01:56.18brlcadoh, if you mean a checklist for stuff to do to actually _make_ the release, there exists that too -- wrote that up when it went open source too
01:56.36brlcadlook at the bottom of the HACKING file, you'll find itemized steps
02:42.46``Erikah
02:42.59``Erikthe itch I have is the freshmeat update
02:43.21``Erikevery freakin' release is major enough to get a freshmeat update, imho
02:43.57``Erikalso; in your directions, you forgot to mention buying erik a tasty beverage :D *duck*
04:58.16phcodercookie monster
05:25.40justin_mmm, I have half a ceiling and 2 recessed lights now
08:36.34*** join/#brlcad clock_ (n=clock@84-72-63-231.dclient.hispeed.ch)
09:53.48CIA-13BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/ (include/pkg.h src/libpkg/pkg.c): there is no need/intent to modify the pkg_switch callback structure, so make it const
10:19.53CIA-13BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/ (src/libfb/pkgtypes.h include/fbmsg.h):
10:19.53CIA-13BRL-CAD: moved/renamed src/libfb/pkgtypes.h to include/fbmsg.h as it is used both by the
10:19.54CIA-13BRL-CAD: library (if_remote) and by the application (fbserv) for communicating; whether
10:19.54CIA-13BRL-CAD: it's considered a public header or a private header that fbserv happens to
10:19.54CIA-13BRL-CAD: understand is still up for debate
10:20.51CIA-13BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/libfb/ (fbserv_obj.c fbserv_obj_win32.c): change from HIDDEN to static, ws, use fbmsg.h
10:23.09CIA-13BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/ (libfb/server.c fbserv/server.c): moved src/libfb/server.c to src/fbserv/server.c; the file contains the fbserv callbacks and the callback table used exclusively by fbserv.
10:26.24CIA-13BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/include/Makefile.am: add fbmsg.h to the list of headers (but make it noinst)
10:27.55CIA-13BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/include/fb.h: by moving the framebuffer server switch table out of libfb and into fbserv directly, it no longer needs to be in fb.h, removing the fb.h interface coupling to pkg.h
10:36.51CIA-13BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/libfb/pkgswitch.c: remove used switch file, seems like a dumbed down example of the fbserv switch table with just close and error. not really useful.
10:37.49CIA-13BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/libfb/if_remote.c: use fbmsg.h instead of pkgtypes.h (renamed and moved)
10:39.08CIA-13BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/libfb/Makefile.am: server.c was moved to src/fbserv/.; pkgswitch.c was removed entirely; pkgtypes.h was renamed to fbmsg.h and moved to include/.
10:40.43CIA-13BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/fbserv/ (fbserv.c fbserv_win.c): declare the fb_server_pkg_switch server callback switch table provided in server.c
10:41.17CIA-13BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/fbserv/Makefile.am: include server.c, moved from src/libfb to there
10:43.46brlcadall that to fix one line in one interface header file
10:46.43CIA-13BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/NEWS: ws
11:00.23CIA-13BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/mged/fbserv.h: add header protection, include fbmsg.h
11:01.06CIA-13BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/mged/fbserv.c: remove pkgtypes.h
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16:24.55pra5adhah
16:25.04pra5adslashdot has banned my ip
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17:36.49``Erikawesome
18:37.39CIA-13BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/libbu/ (semaphore.c malloc.c): missing stdlib.h for malloc (only a few files that should be using malloc instead of bu_malloc)
18:38.06brlcadlemme guess, rss feed updating too frequently
18:38.12CIA-13BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/libbu/vfont.c: use bu_malloc instead of malloc
18:45.00CIA-13BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/libbn/bn_tcl.c: common file size uses longs now
18:59.33pra5adno
18:59.45pra5addsl has an ip pool
19:00.03pra5adone of them was banned i guess
19:00.16pra5adreset the modem (new ip); all's peachy
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21:22.56CIA-13BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/libbu/cmd.c: ws
21:23.48CIA-13BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/libbu/hash.c: include stdlib.h for malloc (cannot use bu_malloc() as the hash table may be used for MEM_DEBUG)
23:28.50pra5adbrlcad, how bout querying the # of bots under a top level obj
23:29.02pra5addirwalk?
23:30.05justin_foshizzle
23:33.22CIA-13BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/librt/wdb_obj.c: missing stdlib.h for atol
23:38.11CIA-13BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/librt/ (28 files): missing stddef.h for offsetof, convert references to offsetof to bu_offsetof
23:41.15CIA-13BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/include/cmd.h: add header protections, conditionally include sys/time.h correctly
23:45.25CIA-13BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/include/bu.h: remove the need for HAVE_STDLIB_H and need for stdlib.h and stddef.h. instead, let files that use the offsetof macros include stdlib.h. don't need decls for malloc,calloc,realloc any more. provide bu_offsetof() macro
Jeff Waugh - find it at freshmeat.net! Modified by Tim Riker to work with blootbot logs, split per channel, etc. irclog2html for #brlcad on 20060123

irclog2html for #brlcad on 20060123

00:03.40CIA-13BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/libfb/tcl.c: use bu_malloc and bu_free instead of malloc
00:05.10CIA-13BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/libfb/fbserv_obj.c: use bu_malloc and bu_free instead of malloc
00:08.09CIA-13BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/libfb/fb_obj.c: use bu_calloc and bu_free instead of calloc
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00:35.32brlcadpra5ad: yeah, you'll want to make a dirtree
00:35.40CIA-13BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/liboptical/ (27 files): include stddef.h for bu_offset's usage of offset
00:36.52brlcadthere are several different ways to walk a geometry graph
00:37.29brlcaddb_functree() is probably the most simple, with a callback for leaf nodes (primitives) and for non-leaf nodes (combinations)
00:37.58brlcadsrc/gtools/g_transfer.c has a simple example using that
00:39.23brlcaddb_walk_tree() is a little more powerful, with a region start and end callback in addition to the leaf callback
00:39.38brlcadmost of the converters in src/conv use that routine
00:42.23brlcadif you only want to walk over the leaf nodes, db_tree_funcleaf() exists
00:43.51brlcadthe iges converter and mged have examples that use that one
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01:07.19pra5adhow do u determine if a primitive is a bot
01:24.35CIA-13BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/conv/comgeom/solid.c: convert to libbu memory management, removing the need for the memory allocation failure checking/handling
01:44.27brlcadif you have an internal pointer you can check if ip->idb_type == ID_BOT
01:44.36brlcadif you have a raw internal pointer, you can check ip->idb_minor_type != ID_BOT
02:00.29brlcadhere, an easier way:
02:00.45brlcadFOR_ALL_DIRECTORY_START(dp, rtip->rti_dbip) {
02:00.48brlcad<PROTECTED>
02:00.59brlcad<PROTECTED>
02:01.12brlcad<PROTECTED>
02:01.14brlcad<PROTECTED>
02:01.15brlcad}
02:08.29brlcadFOR_ALL_DIRECTORY_END
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02:57.30CIA-13BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/conv/jack/jack-g.c: convert to libbu memory management
03:04.35``Erikhave you fixed the tesselator so if it tries to tesselate a bot, it just hands the geometry back?
03:14.52CIA-13BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/conv/ (g-vrml.c g-x3d.c): include stddef.h for bu_offset's usage of offset
03:15.22CIA-13BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/conv/ (asc-nmg.c asc2g.c dxf-g.c euclid-g.c g-adrt.c): convert to libbu memory management
03:28.39CIA-13BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/conv/g-adrt.c: how in the world did struct "vu_vls" compile?
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03:58.35brlcadnope
04:06.30CIA-13BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/rt/ (rtshot.c sh_tcl.c viewweight.c worker.c): convert to libbu memory management
04:07.24CIA-13BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/librtserver/rtserver.c: convert to libbu memory management
04:29.17CIA-13BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/libdm/clip.c: don't use INFINITY as it's a publicly defined macro usually, regardless, it's used as a clipping plane distance so call it that. increase it one order to a billion while we're at it.
04:37.04CIA-13BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/libdm/ (dm-X.c dm-glx.c dm-ogl.c dm-ogl_win.c dm-pex.c): need stdlib.h for getenv()
04:45.31CIA-13BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/libdm/dm_obj.c: convert to bu_malloc for all but one section so that it may fail gracefully
04:45.51CIA-13BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/libmultispectral/sh_temp.c: include stddef.h for bu_offsetof
05:02.34CIA-13BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/fb/pl-fb.c: stdlib.h for malloc and friends, not using libbu management as there is failure recovery code
05:04.14CIA-13BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/fb/cat-fb.c: convert to libbu memory management
05:11.30CIA-13BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/halftone/ (main.c tone_floyd.c): convert to libbu memory management
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06:05.08CIA-13BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/libdm/clip.c: update to use GED_MIN and GED_MAX
06:20.59CIA-13BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/mged/cad_boundp.c: stdlib.h
06:32.42CIA-13BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/mged/ (Makefile.am clip.c): clip.c removed, being used from libdm like it should be
06:33.09CIA-13BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/mged/ (dm-X.c dm-ogl.c setup.c tedit.c): stdlib.h for alloc/getenv funcs
07:06.22CIA-13BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/proc-db/ (molecule.c pipe.c rawbot.c torii.c vegitation.c): use libbu memory allocation management, get rid of null checks
07:07.01CIA-13BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/nirt/parse_fmt.c: s/rt_malloc/bu_malloc
07:07.13CIA-13BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/nirt/if.c: ws
07:07.46CIA-13BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/nirt/command.c: stdlib.h
07:08.54CIA-13BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/anim/ (anim_fly.c anim_track.c): libbu for memory management
07:09.39CIA-13BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/lgt/trie.c: stdlib.h
07:10.30CIA-13BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/lgt/ (texture.c reflect.c mat_db.c lgt_db.c): libbu for memory management
07:11.34CIA-13BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/lgt/ (ir.c octree.c execshell.c): stdlib.h
07:11.44CIA-13BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/lgt/hmenu.c: use bu_malloc
07:13.51CIA-13BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/irprep/showtherm.c: use M_PI instead of PI, VUNITIZE_TOL instead of TOL, and libbu memory management
07:15.20CIA-13BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/irprep/ (secpass.c firpass.c): libbu memory allocation management
07:16.25CIA-13BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/irprep/all_sf.c: use M_PI instead of PI, VDIVIDE_TOL instead of ZTOL, and libbu memory management
07:18.09CIA-13BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/librtserver/rtserver.c: quell some warnings
07:21.25CIA-13BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/anim/anim_track.c: s/nmu/num/ transpose
07:24.09CIA-13BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/fb/pl-fb.c: STATIC to static
07:26.44CIA-13BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/irprep/firpass.c: missing arg to bu_free
07:29.35CIA-13BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/nirt/parse_fmt.c: stdlib.h for getenv
07:31.57CIA-13BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/remrt/protocol.h: header protection, use bu_offsetof
07:32.21CIA-13BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/remrt/remrt.c: add stddef.h for bu_offsetof
07:35.37CIA-13BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/rttherm/ssampview.c: stdlib.h for atoi()
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07:38.09CIA-13BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/util/pix-ppm.c: libbu for allocations
07:39.10CIA-13BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/util/pix-yuv.c: libbu for allocations
07:42.22CIA-13BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/util/pixbgstrip.c: libbu for allocations
07:43.27CIA-13BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/util/pixborder.c: libbu for allocations
07:44.36CIA-13BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/util/pixcut.c: libbu for allocations
07:46.15CIA-13BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/util/pixpaste.c: libbu for allocations
07:48.31CIA-13BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/util/ (terrain.c texturescale.c yuv-pix.c): libbu for allocations
07:52.11CIA-13BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/util/pix-ppm.c: missing end quote
07:54.35CIA-13BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/rttherm/ssampview.c: use atol instaed of atoi
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15:17.21pra5ad_workbrlcad
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16:32.52pra5ad_workif gcc -DHAVE_CONFIG_H -I. -I. -I../../include   -I/usr/X11R6/include -I/usr/local/include -I../../include -DBEHIND_ME_TOL=0.05 -pipe -fno-strict-aliasing -fno-common -g -O3 -MT lgt-texture.o -MD -MP -MF ".deps/lgt-texture.Tpo" -c -o lgt-texture.o `test -f 'texture.c' || echo './'`texture.c; \then mv -f ".deps/lgt-texture.Tpo" ".deps/lgt-texture.Po"; else rm -f ".deps/lgt-texture.Tpo"; exit 1; fitexture.c: In function `init_Icon_Texture':texture.c:133:
17:44.59CIA-13BRL-CAD: 03bob1961 * 10brlcad/misc/win32-msvc7/librt/librt.vcproj: Added the following new files: db_flags.c and db_inmem.c
17:47.10CIA-13BRL-CAD: 03bob1961 * 10brlcad/misc/win32-msvc7/fbserv/fbserv.vcproj: Added server.c
17:50.47CIA-13BRL-CAD: 03bob1961 * 10brlcad/misc/win32-msvc7/libfb/libfb.vcproj: Removed server.c
17:54.56CIA-13BRL-CAD: 03bob1961 * 10brlcad/src/fbserv/fbserv_win.c: Include fbmsg.h instead of libfb/pkgtypes.h. Provide declarations for routines that live in server.c
17:57.19CIA-13BRL-CAD: 03bob1961 * 10brlcad/src/fbserv/fbserv.c: Provide declarations for variables that live in server.c
18:02.46CIA-13BRL-CAD: 03bob1961 * 10brlcad/include/fb.h: Removed declaration of variables from server.c
18:04.02CIA-13BRL-CAD: 03bob1961 * 10brlcad/src/librt/db_inmem.c: Declare db5_export_attributes().
20:11.53CIA-13BRL-CAD: 03lbutler * 10brlcad/src/lgt/texture.c: call to malloc() had the signature of a call to bu_malloc(). Fixed to call bu_malloc().
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23:38.38CIA-13BRL-CAD: 03lbutler * 10brlcad/src/mged/typein.c: include stdlib.h so that atof is known to return a double
Jeff Waugh - find it at freshmeat.net! Modified by Tim Riker to work with blootbot logs, split per channel, etc. irclog2html for #brlcad on 20060124

irclog2html for #brlcad on 20060124

01:55.27*** join/#brlcad ibot (i=ibot@rikers.org)
01:55.27*** topic/#brlcad is http://brlcad.org/ || BRL-CAD is now Free Software! || BRL-CAD Windows port has been merged to HEAD, not yet stable yet || Archer is now on HEAD as well, kick the tires, report any bugs || there WILL be a 7.6.8 released ASAP for January after all
02:07.22*** mode/#brlcad [+o brlcad] by ChanServ
03:54.19justin_mmm drywall
03:56.29*** join/#brlcad DTRemenak (n=DTRemena@DHCP-170-143.caltech.edu)
04:09.12CIA-13BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/include/raytrace.h: missing the declaration for db5_export_attributes()
04:11.42CIA-13BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/librt/db_inmem.c: don't need the db5_export_attributes extern decl as it's now in raytrace.h like it should have been
04:25.05CIA-13BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/gtools/g_transfer.c: use the FOR_ALL_DIRECTORY_START/FOR_ALL_DIRECTORY_END macros for iterating over the array of linked list of directory nodes.
04:31.17CIA-13BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/gtools/g_diff.c: convert iteration over the array of linked lists to FOR_ALL_DIRECTORY_START/FOR_ALL_DIRECTORY_END instead
04:44.50*** join/#brlcad DTRemenak (n=DTRemena@DHCP-170-143.caltech.edu)
04:45.36CIA-13BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/include/raytrace.h: the external isn't const, but the avs is (db5_export_attributes)
05:00.58CIA-13BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/ (8 files in 4 dirs): convert iteration over the array of linked list of directory nodes to FOR_ALL_DIRECTORY_START/FOR_ALL_DIRECTORY_END instead
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15:44.53CIA-13BRL-CAD: 03bob1961 * 10brlcad/src/librt/db_io.c: Remove USE_SURVICE_MODS ifdef/endif that was guarding a fflush in db_write().
15:46.06clock_brlcad: hi
17:19.44CIA-13BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/tclscripts/ampi.tcl: add the verbose flag so that warnings/errors are apparent
17:22.03*** join/#brlcad DTRemenak (n=DTRemena@DHCP-170-143.caltech.edu)
17:22.33clock_DTRemenak: hi
17:22.40clock_DTRemenak: in which city is caltech?
17:25.25brlcadclock_: howdy
17:25.44clock_brlcad: hi
17:26.12brlcadhow goes things far far away?
17:27.08clock_forward
17:27.09clock_:D
17:27.50clock_where is caltech actually?
17:28.49brlcadcalifornia
17:29.01clock_what a surprise! :)
17:29.14clock_But which city?
17:29.24brlcadheh
17:29.39brlcadpasadena
17:31.46brlcadlos angeles
17:31.55brlcadsan diego, san jose, san fran.
17:32.14brlcadlong beach, sacramento, long beach, oakland, anaheim ;)
17:33.17brlcadfresno, santa ana.. hmm
17:34.07brlcadthat's about 10 million people probably, closer to 20 if you include the suburbs
17:34.35clock_santa monica and venice
17:36.02brlcadfamous places, but don't hold a stick up to the other cities population-wise
17:36.31clock_why are they famous?
17:37.17brlcadnot even 100k people if I had to guess in santa monica
17:37.17clock_I come from Prague and Prague has 1.2M
17:37.17clock_so everything under 1.2M is a village for me :)
17:37.20brlcadritzy tourist attraction places often found in movies, quirky culture blendings ;)
17:37.34clock_that's exact description
17:37.55clock_what does ritzy mean?
17:38.04brlcadexpensive
17:38.12brlcadfancy
17:38.48clock_A spirit of medieval evil
17:40.13brlcadwoot, http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/California
17:40.26brlcadtable half-way
17:42.36clock_Prague is to cities what Jet Set Willy or Go To Hell is to computer games
17:42.47clock_bizarre.
17:47.55clock_some of the CA views are impressive
17:51.17clock_I like the stack crossing
17:51.27clock_Caltrans :)
18:13.45clock_brlcad: hehe, BRL-CAD logo is just Dogtown Skateboards logo with the cross replaced with eagle's body ;-)
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20:16.20razbrlcad: I downloaded the windows version of brlcad and the brlcad.dsw will not load the *.dsp files. It states the makefiles were not generated by developer studio.
20:37.58razbrlcad: solution seems to be re-save the *.dsp files when opened in a text editor.
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21:09.08brlcadheh
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23:21.55*** join/#brlcad ctj2 (n=ctj@192.55.203.132)
23:22.18ctj2Hello, is Sean here and awake?
23:39.16brlcadhey, long time..
23:39.27brlcadhaven't seen any commits from you yet ;)
23:39.53ctj2That's because I'm writing to much code for Max.  I still use the cad software whenever I can.
23:40.19ctj2I'm actually a GPU programmer now.  Shhhh, don't let any of the CSG people hear that.  
23:40.20brlcadhow've you been?  other than slave coding for Max
23:40.28brlcadheh
23:40.49ctj2Pretty good.  My GF had twins november 1st.  Michael and Mikayla.  (Mike 1 and Mike 2)
23:40.50brlcadactually.. we got a few graphics cards here to test out some ideas on them using gpgpu techniques
23:41.03brlcadhah, excellent!
23:41.07brlcadcongratulations
23:41.11ctj2Thank you.
23:41.45ctj2I came looking for the answer to a very off topic question.  What the heck do we call the programs that are internal to the cpu?  Machine code?  Microcode?
23:42.31brlcadeither/both work depending on the context
23:42.54ctj2I need to differniciated it from the opcodes that are generated by the assembler.
23:43.08ctj2I hate lossing vocab.
23:43.08brlcadmicrocode directly controls the processor
23:43.18ctj2Thanks, that's the word I was looking for.
23:43.19brlcadusually machine code equates to several microcode instructions
23:44.09ctj2exactly.  One of the big problems I'm dealing with right now is educating people.  Some of them have no programming experence.  Some have no computer science.  Worse still, some of our programmers are good programmers with no CS behind it.
23:44.14brlcadmicrocode being hardwired on most non-mainframe computers
23:45.25brlcadyeah, odd that you have to explain that to someone though ;)
23:45.52brlcadunless you're trying to explain graphics processor programming
23:46.10ctj2The problem is how do you explain the difference between OOP from structured design from structured programming and what the power of each is.
23:46.19brlcadunless you're actually writing micro/machine code for gpus :)
23:46.30brlcadvery carefully
23:46.32brlcad:)
23:46.36ctj2*grins*
23:47.05ctj2Yes, very carefully.  I have to deal with people that get cought up in the term of the day, without understanding why and what it means.
23:47.50ctj2My latest battle was somebody that required me to use a factory to get an instance that was then so specific that there was no way for that factory to deliver anything other than that one instance.
23:48.46ctj2Or people that seem to feel that every class they write is so spectacular and individualized that it belongs in its own library.
23:48.48ctj2*grump*
23:51.30ctj2So what have you been up to?
23:55.08``Erikclasses suck
23:55.35ctj2Now that leads me to ask the question: OOP classes or collage classes?
23:55.52``Erikood/oop
23:56.01``Erikat least, the laughable mockery c++ and java make of classes
23:56.09``Erikobjc seems interesting, smalltalk is nice
23:56.56ctj2Classes/objects in of themselves do not suck.  The concept is very powerful.   It is a tool that even dinos like myself have to embrace at some point.
23:58.11``ErikI was converted into being a big oo fan in '94 or '95, after over 10 years of other shtuff, then got some serious C fu going and realized that c++ buys you nothing but some syntatic sugar that is inappropriate at least 95% of the time
23:58.46``ErikI was lukewarm on ruby 6 yrs ago, but smalltalk has me much more appreciative as of a couple yrs ago
23:58.46``Erik:)
23:58.59``Erikbut I still contend that c++ and java are just plain bad.
23:59.54ctj2As an example:
Jeff Waugh - find it at freshmeat.net! Modified by Tim Riker to work with blootbot logs, split per channel, etc. irclog2html for #brlcad on 20060125

irclog2html for #brlcad on 20060125

00:00.28``Erikhmmm, smalltalk predates c++ by a good chunk
00:00.30ctj2When we were first programming, "structure programming" was introduced.  IF-THEN-ELSEIF-ELSE-ENDIF type structures.
00:00.41``Erikand the 'actor' model scheme was designed around was a form of oop in retrospect
00:01.11``Erikwe've had mechanisms to talk about it, but the 'common' line programmer was unable to get there :(
00:01.40ctj2Even though the concept of SP was there, it took a number of years till we could talk about it.  The concept that was required was "blocks".  Then came structured designe with "functional units" and now we have objects.
00:02.00ctj2but until we have good UML, Usecases that match we had no real way of speaking OOP.
00:03.00``Erikdon't mind me, I'm a fan of esoteric languages and a major scheme weenie :)
00:03.34``Erikhm, plenty of usability was available in far cleaner languages very early on... but paradigm shifts are hard, so most people avoid them like the plague
00:04.11ctj2I program in scheme, lisp, fortran, C, C++, php, perl and likely a dozen other languages.    We can't have a paradigm shift until we have a human language or vocabulary to discuss the concepts.
00:04.37``Erikwas it kay that made the comment about people who first learned basic being permanently damaged beyond repair? :)
00:05.09``Erik(I'm also quite angsty because I'm stuck working on a very poorly architected java program at work...)
00:05.10ctj2Hmmm, I guess that means Mike was damage beyond repair.  I'll follow his programming lead for now.
00:05.41``Erikheh, basic was my first language, on the coleco adam when it was shiney and new... but I'm a happy retard
00:06.21``Erikmy point was that paradigm shifts are hard, they serve well to weed out the chaff, which is a majority of people, imho
00:07.09ctj2``Erik,  when you say you are working on a "poorly architected java program" I submit that any program in any language can be poorly architected.  Where we get many many bad architected systems is when there is a technical change that requires a new methodology which people can't speak about for lack of human language.
00:07.10``Erikpeople who have made the jump to really grok and become proficient with functional and logical languages can walk back to imperative and oo oh so much stronger, but I've seen very few who do
00:08.13ctj2I'd agree with that.
00:08.18``Erikperhaps, but I view c++'s variant of oo as a major step back... hey, man, bust out the smalltalk, ruby, ocaml, etc, and I'm right there :)
00:08.38``Erik(I'm not hatin' on OO in general, just the most common mutilation...)
00:08.51``Eriksorry if I gave the wrong impression
00:09.15ctj2Stop worrying about the language and worry about the concepts.  People have been doing objected oriented programming long before smalltalk and C++ and java showed up on the scene.
00:09.49ctj2If you can't take your good OO concepts and impliment them in the languge of the day, then is that a failure of the language or the programmer?
00:10.15``Erikheh, some languages make it very very very difficult, but it's the fault of the programmer, of course :)
00:10.41``ErikI do a good chunk of oo-ey stuff in my C, so... yeah, we had a minor language mismatch, and I think it was my fault o.O
00:11.10ctj2One of the first good examples of OO that I observed was librt/table.c
00:12.17``Eriksean, are you still at the office?
00:13.11ctj2If you look at the history of teaching computer science, you can see the instructors using cobol/fortran to teach a *language* to the students.  Then N.W. brought out Pascal and the instructors were capable of teaching SP with a strong stack oriented language.  The schools then produced many programmers that could only do SP.  
00:13.39``Erikindeed
00:14.00ctj2When they were handed a different language, Fortran IV, ASM, COMPASS they were lost.  The language did not have the structures they needed.  And the students didn't know how to build those structures.
00:14.04``Erikand now colleges turn out java factory line toilers :(
00:14.55ctj2One of my luck outs was that I was taught how to create a structured programming language (compiler course).  And when you walk out of that, you realize that structure programming is mearly the correct locations of gotos.  *GRIN*
00:15.18ctj2The big problem with pascal programmers is that pascal was a teaching language, not a production language.
00:16.00ctj2We cheated, we just did the Linked lists in COMPASS (CDC Cyber750 Assembly)
00:16.25``Erikcool
00:16.27ctj2Java is a great teaching language.  The problem is when you teach a *language* vs the science and art of programming.
00:17.14``Erikayup... I dislike the excessive verbosity of java, tho
00:17.29``Erikand I seem to spend too much time trying to look up api calls instead of thinking about the problem I want to solve
00:17.32ctj2Which brings me back to my original point, the *language* that needs to be taught before Java is UML or equivlent.  Then you can teach the concepts and impliment those concepts in Java (or any other language)
00:17.51``Erikheh, just hit newbie students with SICP
00:17.57ctj2The only way that I get good productivity in java is with an IDE.
00:18.01ctj2Expand SICP.
00:18.13``Erikstructure and interpretation of computer programs
00:18.23ctj2*grins* Ah, a course name.
00:18.28``Erikummm, http://mitpress.mit.edu/sicp/
00:18.30``Erika book, too
00:18.39ctj2Ok.  let me bookmark.
00:19.13ctj2Done.
00:19.34``Erikwhen I code (java), I end up having 'idea' open on one display to look around and let it show me methods, and vim on the other one to actually express
00:19.59ctj2*grins* I've been using Netbeans for my java toys
00:20.09*** join/#brlcad PrezKennedy (n=Apathy@pcp010175pcs.dover01.de.comcast.net)
00:20.52``ErikI have hope that sisc will help me be productive in java...
00:20.59ctj2It upsets my fingers though.  I type ctrl-a, ctrl-o, tab and the program I was writing is GONE.
00:21.04``Erikhttp://sisc.sourceforge.net/
00:22.32ctj2Is PrezKennedy chuck?
00:22.52``Erikhis boy, iirc
00:23.22brlcadoop, sorry  -- Yes i am
00:23.39ctj2Ah, thanks
00:23.46``Erikdidja see justins new truck? o.O
00:23.55``ErikI think I started a trend :D
00:24.12``Erik(or did you, with that chevy...)
00:24.58PrezKennedydad would probably join irc as kermit if he figured it out ;-)
00:25.41ctj2More likely, Chuck is busy playing video games and has no time for IRC dorks.  *GRIN*
00:26.39Twingywhere's the link to the 7 levels of IRC....
00:26.42brlcadyep I did
00:27.16brlcadhehe, kermit is still playing games
00:27.33``Eriktwingy: google? :D
00:27.38Twingycan't find it
00:27.40brlcadthough I almost passed out when I heard he wasn't just playing tribes any more
00:27.53ctj2What's his current addiction?
00:27.53``ErikWHAT???
00:27.55TwingyI think foodave posted it in '00
00:28.04PrezKennedyhes been playing command and conquer games since we got a computer
00:28.27``Erikthat's it, I'm crapping in your mac tomorrow
00:28.28brlcadif you can't handle the firepower, don't handle the gun ;)
00:28.31PrezKennedyhe also plays total annihilation and... well thats bout all that works on his computer
00:28.35ctj2Hey there.  Don't pick on the boy, he just picked up some bad habits.
00:28.58Twingysean will have to get a quad mac if you do that
00:29.01``Erikask mike t, I'm always ripping on c++
00:29.44brlcadheh, punt the G5 because of your video card? get a new video card ;)
00:30.05ctj2No, not because of the video card.  Mac OS X does not support NV_OPTION_3
00:30.12ctj2The video card does.
00:30.15Twingyleave ##opengl
00:30.41brlcadahh, driver
00:30.45``Erikcheck it out, dudes, the 'project' takes about 3 seconds total for both the raytracing and the algorithms... for the 100x100x10 of that thing, right... but the total run time is... between 1 and 2 hours, depending on luck :)
00:30.47ctj2Yes drivers.
00:31.28``Erikwhen I bitched, nvidia put out new fbsd drivers to support the card I have... mebbe if you bitch about the option, they'll update the mac driver?
00:31.46ctj2To paraphrase NVIDIA: It is Apples problem.
00:32.07``Erikmost of my cohorts at apple fled :(
00:32.08brlcadany experience with Cg or the GPGPU project?
00:33.52brlcadwhat about "Sh" ?
00:33.53``Erikoh, btw, I think nvidia has a pack of knuckleheads working over there, they don't understand ioctls so good :(
00:34.01ctj2Cg and the other one compile to a profile which the drivers then interpret.  I can write my code in Cg if I wanted to but then the drivers eat it.  Same with Sh."
00:35.09brlcadnot as nearly interested in Cg as the other two, mainly due to portability -- sort of waiting to see which one falls into better favor
00:36.46PrezKennedyhttp://flickr.com/photos/92579619@N00/86410009/in/pool-tuawrigs/
00:36.51PrezKennedyi saw that and thought of you brlcad
00:38.05brlcadheh
00:38.11brlcadi wish i had a canon xl
00:38.24``Erikheh
00:38.28PrezKennedyit makes your setup look cheap and mine look like its from the late 1970's
00:38.39``Erikthat dell isn't nearly hidden enough.
00:38.45``Erikand where's the ion globe??? :D
00:38.50brlcadyeah, that's like a wart on the floor
00:39.34``Erikbtw, are you gonna want your fancyassed dell back soon? I know how much you adore and miss it...
00:39.36``ErikO:-)
00:40.04ctj2``Erik,  here's my programming bible: http://www.60bits.net/STRAPs.pdf
00:40.13ctj2Pay attention to section 9
00:40.30Twingystraps doesn't sound office friendly
00:40.34Twingymaybe my mind is just in the gutter
00:40.47ctj2System Tasks, Procedures and Responsibilities
00:40.48brlcadheh
00:40.54Twingysuuuure
00:41.06``Erikor else what?
00:41.31TwingySaddist Tickle Ravis Attractive Posture
00:41.35ctj2No or else.  Take a look, you might find it interesting history.
00:42.25Twingywhat happened to the 151?
00:42.33brlcadctj2: interesting document
00:42.34``Erikdrank it long ago
00:42.47Twingygonna try white lightning now?
00:42.56``Erikno
00:42.59``Erikcan't afford jack shit
00:43.02``Erikmuch less jack daniels
00:43.06ctj2Thank you.  I helped write parts of that document.  The entire group had input going from 9.3 to 9.4
00:43.13TwingyI hear jack shit is on sale at coscov's for 99 cents a bottle
00:43.22``Eriklee suggested I drive tomorrow, I suggested he buy my lunch, he didn't say no :o
00:43.32TwingyI think he wants to cook us ramen
00:43.51ctj2Ok, Sean who are these people, they sound like they all hang out at the lab.
00:43.54``ErikI think he wants to take me somewhere and get me drunk so he can drive my damn car back :(
00:44.13``Erikwe have no lab anymore :(
00:44.22PrezKennedyits a shack
00:44.30PrezKennedyshack(s)
00:45.02``Erikshut up, bitch
00:45.03``Erik:D
00:45.18brlcadctj2: of various sorts -- you'd see them if you visited, don't think you know any of them
00:45.28brlcadcept PrezKennedy of course ;)
00:45.35PrezKennedyits supposed to get windy tonight... be careful ;-)
00:45.47brlcadPrezKennedy: you saying you ate beans?
00:46.00PrezKennedytaco bell
00:46.01ctj2Thanks brlcad.  I do miss the lab, lots at times.  
00:46.01PrezKennedy;-)
00:46.03``Erikindeed, it will be windy
00:47.42Twingydrink some more so you can pass out and we can come take your chili
00:48.08``ErikI am drinking some more...
00:48.12PrezKennedythen there'll be hurricane force winds
00:48.31``ErikI'm not sure if you can handle the onion content, tho
00:48.35Twingyfrom erik drinking?
00:48.45TwingyI don't think he gets gas like that dude
00:48.57Twingylee maybe...
00:49.00``Erikno, mine is a soft and gentle breeze
00:49.06``Erikthat carries death and misery
00:49.10PrezKennedynah after everyone else starts contributing once they get ahold of the chili
00:49.39``Erika tiny little pfft in the hall and poor justin whines about it from his desk in the corner :D
00:50.35brlcadctj2: so with much lamenting and sadness, kicking screaming, and gnashing of teeth -- we're a few weeks away from a windows distribution
00:50.45PrezKennedycool
00:50.49TwingyI bet if I ate some sauurkraut each day for lunch
00:51.01``Erikooh, we should go to the german place if it's still around
00:51.08Twingyyep
00:51.17``Erikbratwurst, sauerkraut, mashed pertaters, and good german beer
00:51.38brlcadit's still around
00:51.44``Erikwe should make lee drive so we can get fitshaced
00:51.46brlcadthough i'm hankering for some corral
00:52.09brlcadtried going saturday, there wasn't a single parking spot, even illegal ones
00:52.09``Erikit'll make s2 much more bearable for ya, justin ;)
00:52.18``Erikat what, corral?
00:52.32``Erikguess their new location is workin' for 'em :)
00:52.59``Erikdude, they're putting in an applebees where the old one was
00:53.10brlcadyeah, the line went out both doors
00:53.17ctj2brlcad, should I be happy or sad about a windows release?
00:53.27brlcadit's a good bad
00:53.40brlcadthe download rate and exposure is going to skyrocket
00:53.49PrezKennedyand i can use it!
00:53.52``Erikheh, is the breakage bob gave us with that all fixed up?
00:53.55brlcadestimating 2-5k downloads a month
00:54.01brlcad(for just windows)
00:54.38brlcad``Erik: pretty much -- i think I've weeded it all away finally
00:54.53``Erik'k, so I can start breaking it for fbsd and obsd again
00:54.58brlcadarcher is still non-functional, but that was pretty much to be expected
00:55.00Twingyhaha, breakage bob
00:55.16``Erik"dude, bob, when we said 'break it down', that AIN'T what we meant!"
00:55.30Twingyfat fingered fred
00:56.15PrezKennedyfgat fiongers suick!!!
00:56.33``Erikand that's why prezkennedy is never ever ever EVER allowed to be a sysadmin
01:01.13CIA-13BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/tclscripts/archer/Archer.tcl: argv0 is not available for some reason, so catch the exception and conditionally call LoadArcherLibs
01:01.13PrezKennedywith that type of stress... may as well be the sysadmin's boss... he gets paid more
01:02.16``Erikthe massive paychecks, awe and respect of puny mortals, sexy models on my arm...
01:02.17``Erikwell
01:02.20``Erikthe paychecks, anyways
01:02.41PrezKennedyyou were the master of your domain... in a way
01:03.12``Erik"I am master of my dominion... I share the secrets of the clown"
01:13.38Twingy*archer fires arrow at thee in retaliation*
01:13.57TwingyHACK THE GIBSON!#@!
01:14.05Twingyo.O
01:14.33Twingywhy couldn't they have had angelina say that line >_<
01:18.28PrezKennedyfarewell... for now!
01:18.36CIA-13BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/tclscripts/archer/Archer.tcl: more protections to avoid the can't read "env(ARCHER_HOME)": no such variable error when making the package index
01:19.48``Erikheh
01:35.15CIA-13BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/tclscripts/archer/cursor.tcl: make the other pkg_index error go away regarding: can't set "::blt::cursorWaitCount": parent namespace doesn't exist
01:47.49pra5adgpu programming eh
01:49.12Twingygeneric parental unit
01:49.42pra5adwere u at the bnd seminar?
01:49.50TwingyI was buying a truck
01:50.00Twingy:P
01:50.05pra5adah i missed that
01:50.28pra5adoverhyping to the maxxxxxxxx
01:51.08Twingywas she passing out coffee mugs?
01:55.40pra5adfelt like it
01:56.09Twingyyou get hit in the head with a coffee mug?
01:56.25pra5adfelt like it
01:56.31Twingyhaha
02:06.49``Erikheh
02:07.00Twingyhow was the onions?
02:07.04``Eriktomorrow, I think I'm gonna try to give her an idea of how horribly bad our shit is
02:07.05``Eriktasty
02:07.17TwingyI think you should talk her into putting the logo on coffee mugs
02:07.41``Erikwe have software that does a task... the task being doen using the software itself takes... 3 seconds. The software as a whole takes... 1-2 hrs
02:08.05Twingy...and if you had coffee mugs you'd have something to do while its running
02:08.28``Erik0.083% of our runtime is... useful.
02:08.33``Eriktops
02:08.39Twingyand 0.083% of our management is useful :}
02:08.49``Erikthat many?
02:08.49``Erik:D
02:12.50*** join/#brlcad DTRemenak (n=DTRemena@DHCP-170-143.caltech.edu)
02:13.52pra5adso the interact #s made sense?
02:15.08``ErikI think so
02:15.34``ErikI'd like to string the rt to the interactor, or do a timeing experiment higher up, or something..
02:16.26TwingyI'd like to build robotic monkies to make me ham sandwiches
02:16.39``Erikeven if the #'s aren't very close, the preliminary is over 1000x difference, dude...
02:16.55Twingyorders shmorders of magnitude
02:17.05Twingyhere's a theory
02:17.17pra5adheh
02:17.21Twingymaybe dixie is some kinda cyborg that doesn't age
02:17.31Twingyand so run times are irrelevent o.O
02:17.46Twingylike the replicators y0
02:20.02``Erikheh
02:20.50TwingyI think we should all get extra jobs at home depot on saturdays
02:20.53Twingythen when we slack off
02:20.59Twingywe don't tell on each other
02:21.26TwingyHome Depot / M3 team
02:25.18``Erikerm
02:25.23``ErikI'm not calling it 'm3' anymore
02:25.29``ErikI refuse to sully the name of my vehicle
02:25.36pra5adtoo late
02:26.08pra5adshould have bought the m4.. 'better than m3 in more ways than one'
02:26.18``Erikbeen reading on that just now
02:26.23``Erikm4 is just the '06 m3 coupe
02:26.33Twingyhah
02:26.48Twingythen his car would have to have a regular expression parser in the engine computer
02:26.49brlcadoriginal pranksta
02:26.56TwingyYOU CAN DOIT!
02:27.00``Erikuh huh, uh huh
02:27.15``Erikdamn we're a pack of nerds
02:28.35phcoderoonter geleebin gloatin glovin
02:29.06pra5adbrlcad,
02:29.26pra5adhow do i drill down a directory struct
02:29.44pra5ad(i think u answered this already.. /me has bad memory)
02:31.47brlcadwhat do you mean by drill down?
02:32.35pra5aditerate over all nodes in the dir
02:32.43brlcadah, traverse the nodes for a particular assembly
02:32.44pra5adwhat were the fns/where are they
02:32.48brlcadyeah, I did answer that :)
02:32.55pra5adwhich header
02:33.06brlcadheh, raytrace.h ;)
02:33.13brlcadbut that won't get you very far
02:33.17brlcadwhat do you need to do?
02:33.23brlcaddo you care about intermediate combinations?
02:33.29brlcador just the leaf nodes?
02:33.50pra5adfor later yes, but for now just the leaves will do
02:34.17pra5adalso, what's the point of DIR_HIDDEN
02:34.31*** join/#brlcad Twingy (n=justin@pcp0011649600pcs.aberdn01.md.comcast.net)
02:34.47pra5adand the difference between DIR_SOLID/REGION/COMB
02:35.17brlcaddb_functree() is probably the easiest for you to use, keeping it simple when you do decide to look at the intermediates
02:35.37pra5adahh yes
02:35.46brlcadgeometry in a .g can be hidden so you don't see it in listings
02:36.10pra5adthere's no special signficance? it's user discretion?
02:36.10brlcadcan be used as a means to manage intermediate objects being edited for example
02:37.27brlcadit's got meaning, it means it's hidden so applications are expected to respect the hidden and ignore those objects unless you're a command/operation that wants/needs to manage hidden objects
02:37.44brlcade.g. ls command needs to ignore hidden objects
02:38.34brlcadbut a database converter wouldn't necessarily want to ignore them
02:38.46brlcadit's app discretion -- not user discretion :)
02:38.55brlcadfor you, probably should ignore them
02:38.57pra5adk
02:39.17brlcada solid is a primitive, e.g. a BOT or a sphere or an arb, etc
02:39.24brlcader, a DIR_SOLID
02:39.49brlcada DIR_REGION is a combination that has been marked as a region
02:39.57brlcada region signifies "something physical"
02:40.15brlcadit'd be a "part" in pro/e unigraphics lingo
02:41.01brlcadcombinations are just that -- some csg combination of objects (other combinations, regions, or solids)
02:41.20pra5adg-nmg preserves em?
02:41.33brlcadpreserves?
02:41.43pra5adthe comb nodes
02:41.52pra5adtho that doesnt make sense..
02:41.57brlcadyou can have combination nodes above and below the region level
02:42.13brlcadthe converter collapses the nodes below the region level iirc
02:42.54brlcadabove the region level, they are expected to just be unions (i.e. "collections" or groups)
02:43.13brlcadbelow the region level, they can be arbitrary CSG operations (subtractions, unions, intersections)
02:43.19pra5adah
02:44.10``ErikI need a new furry helmet
02:46.04Twingynow that you got a sun roof
02:46.10Twingyyou can wear one of those beer hats
02:46.43pra5adis it legal to specify a NULL functor as the comb node callback?
02:51.51pra5adguess it works
02:51.52pra5ad=)
02:53.44pra5adt62 has 1004 bots :o
02:54.16Twingythe csg version mebe
02:54.28pra5adno, g-nmg converted
02:54.37Twingythat aint ryte
02:54.46pra5adleaves are always of type DIR_SOLID ?
02:54.57pra5adleafs
02:54.58pra5ad..
02:55.39pra5adhavoc-bot has 297 meshes
02:55.43pra5ader bots
02:55.52Twingyohh bots
02:55.58Twingyyea, that's right
02:56.48pra5adoh?
03:09.14ctj2Good night all.
03:15.35brlcadpra5ad: yeah, that's like the definition of a leaf
03:17.30CIA-13BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/other/blt/Makefile.am: i suppose only one of the tk files wasn't needed due to conflicts.. the others seem rather important due to runtime symbol errors.. ;)
03:17.33pra5adcheck my priv msg
03:19.43CIA-13BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/tclscripts/archer/LoadArcherLibs.tcl: load the blt library by getting lib out of the bu_brlcad_root path.. need to refactor this puppy, but it should work irrespective of the other stuff
03:20.24brlcadit's a list of references to the leaf
03:20.43brlcadcan be referenced n times, don't think that's what you want
03:20.46pra5adso how would i get the soltab from a dp?
03:21.11brlcadhm, i pasted code for that too
03:21.21brlcadyou convert to 'internal' format
03:21.32brlcadfor starters
03:21.42pra5adthe dp to internal?
03:22.25brlcadrt_db_get_internal( &intern, dp, dbip, NULL, &rt_uniresource )
03:22.45brlcadpass it the dp, your dbip, and an internal structure for it to fill in
03:23.12brlcadstruct rt_db_internal intern;
03:23.33brlcadrt_uniresource is a global, you should be able to use it as is
03:23.43brlcad(provided by the library)
03:24.06brlcadunless you want to handle multithreaded (which wouldn't help you much for an rt_db_get_internal())
03:25.17brlcadif you've already determined it's a bot, you can cast the intern.idb_ptr after rt_db_get_internal() to a bot internal
03:25.39pra5adah
03:25.45brlcade.g. struct rt_bot_internal *bot = (struct rt_bot_internal *)intern.idb_ptr;
03:26.08brlcadthat "is" an actual bot, deserialized in all it's internal glory
03:26.33pra5adrighto =)
03:36.56pra5adnooo
03:37.07pra5adhow do i determine if it's a bot
03:37.16pra5adbefore the cast
03:37.37pra5adsoltab has a type_id
03:38.30pra5adohhh nm
03:38.32pra5ad;)
03:38.49pra5adrt_db_get_internal returns the type id
04:02.03pra5adhow do i close a db created by rt_dirbuild? i'm doing rt_clean(rtip*) , but when i reopen it w/ rt_dirbuild, db_dircheck whines about duplicates
04:02.27pra5adalso, why not use the db_* funcs?
04:03.22pra5adim looking at g-xxx.c; seems simple enough
04:12.09brlcaddb_close(dbip);
04:12.21brlcadnothing wrong with the db_ funcs
04:12.28brlcadthey work hand in hand with the rt funcs
04:12.52pra5adk so rt_clean is wrong
04:15.46brlcadrt_clean() is for deallocating per-cpu resources, nothing at all to do with directories
04:16.04brlcadhas to do with raytracing data management (e.g. prep'd data)
05:21.22justin_http://www.reputable.com/o2.html
05:21.35justin_look for initials JS, circa 1999 :)
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11:05.41brlcadheh, The core dumped, oh my.
11:10.01clock_china syndrome
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11:54.58``Eriko.O
14:13.05Twingylunch time yet?
14:31.09Twingyyou should come to grumpies with us
14:31.35``Erikwho all is 'us'?
14:31.46Twingyum, me and uh, you, and uh others :)
14:31.59``Erikheh
14:32.17``Erik<-- got up at 4am and ran budget numbers o.O bein' po' sucks
14:32.28Twingyeww
14:32.40Twingy4am... that's like 3 hours after I went to bed
14:32.43``Erikalso watched new rvb and strangerhood
14:32.54``Erikheh, it was 4 hours after I went to bed...
14:33.03``Erikjust couldn't get back to sleep :/
14:33.14TwingyI bet it was the onions
14:33.25``Erikdoubt it
14:33.46Twingythe onions stole your car and drove away with your wallet
14:33.58Twingy:)
14:34.11Twingyyou just don't remember any of this
14:34.36``Erikthey musta hit me over the head with the bag of potatos next to 'em
14:35.00``Erikmmm potato juice
14:35.11Twingyyou should try making vodka
14:35.24``Erikthat's a little illegal without a license
14:35.36Twingyah
14:37.01Twingyand if you make it wrong you go blind :)
14:37.08clock_The Original Onions?
14:37.17clock_That's a surf rock band that produces freely distributable music
14:37.36clock_Actually very good one
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19:49.13CIA-13BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/archer/plugins/ (utility.tcl wizards.tcl): only traverse into Utility and Wizards if they actually exist
20:26.38Twingyheh
20:26.48Twingythey make a super charger to take my truck from 150HP to 230HP
20:27.07Twingydoes 1/4 mile in 15 seconds
20:32.34``Erikhrmmmm
20:32.59``Erikhere's a turbo that gives 7.5 psi for my car... (even thought they call it a supercharger)... 499hp
20:33.23Twingynutty
20:33.26Twingyhow much?
20:33.27``Erikhuh, actually, the literature sounds like a real supercharger, mebbe they just put a lame pic up
20:33.30Twingymine would cost me $2700
20:33.38``Erikheh, 10,900
20:33.38``Erik:D
20:33.44``Erik(but damn, 499hp)
20:34.04Twingyat that point the car would probly not be aeraodynamic enough to handle
20:34.12Twingyaerodynamic
20:34.24``ErikI d'no, cf is .33
20:34.27Twingyunless you dropped it some more and put a wing on
20:34.33``Erikcorvette is .32 iirc
20:34.43``Erikmy truck was .43 and fairly slippery for a truck
20:36.56Twingymy engine block is cast iron
20:37.07``Erikcool
20:39.43Twingymine is 0.4 it appears
20:39.55``Erikcool
20:40.07Twingythe super charger would be fun
20:40.18Twingybut I'd just end up wasting more gas
20:40.53``ErikI read that some company in california does electric conversions of vehicles, and they did an s10 with the same geometry as mine to run full electric... added a tonnea cover and air dam to drop the cf from .42 or whatever to .34
20:41.03Twingyspoke with that guy in aberdeen on rhino lining, $410
20:41.07``Erikcool
20:41.09Twingybetter than $680 dealer quote
20:41.20Twingyford used to have the Ford Ranger EV
20:41.24Twingyin '02 or '03
20:41.55TwingyI like mitsubishi's approach
20:42.01Twingywhere they are bolting on 2 electric motors, one to each wheel
20:42.15Twingyno efficiently loss moving through gears and pinions
20:42.53``Erikhttp://www.autofieldguide.com/articles/079701.html has some shit about electrifying a mid truck, heh
20:43.56``Erik(guess it was outta chevy, not a shop)
20:44.02``Erikwhy'd I think that o.O must be going senile
20:44.17TwingyI think if they go back to the hydrogen vehicle approach
20:44.28Twingyand use the the electricity to gather hydrogen
20:44.37Twingysince you can pack more energy into the same volume, it'd sell better
20:44.42Twingysince all you'd need is water
20:44.57Twingyplug it in, fill it with a gallon of water... wait
20:45.18Twingymake the filling unit portable
20:45.40Twingymake a 240V and 120V switch
20:46.05Twingyfigure it'd cost about $2k since it'd need a small chunk of gold
20:46.49``Erikhrmmmmm, I wonder if there're any cheaper metals that'd do the trick... link, zinc or nickel
20:47.12Twingyirridium, platinum, palladium, gold, and one other I think
20:47.42TwingyI think Mercuty
20:47.44TwingyMercury
20:48.10TwingyI think mercury would be the easiest to work with
20:48.22``Erikhrm, but it's liquid at stp
20:48.29Twingysince you can jab your copper probe into it
20:48.38Twingyand not worry about things corroding around the wire
20:48.44Twingysince all it ever hits is the mercury
20:48.49Twingywell
20:48.54Twingythe walls of the filler
20:49.10Twingythe problem is always the connection between the precious mettal and the insulator
20:49.14Twingyit breaks it down
20:49.21``Erikhm, true
20:49.22Twingya gold wire with plastic insulator will eat plastic away slowly
20:49.35Twingyit's a very hard problem
20:49.41Twingyunless you make part of the process disposable
20:49.42``Eriksmall cups in the bottom with wires in them, then mercury fills the cups?
20:49.46Twingywhich is probly the cheapest way to do it
20:49.56Twingyyes, but the cups would get eaten away
20:50.05``Erikwhy
20:50.06``Erik?
20:50.13Twingycause the mercury is touching the cups
20:50.25``Erikand mercury would eat plastic?
20:50.27``Eriko.O
20:50.38Twingyno, the electrolysis would
20:50.46Twingyvery slowly
20:51.02Twingyit would eat away at it about 1 mil (not milimeter, but one mil) an hour
20:51.30TwingyI think the most practicaly approach is a disposable sleeve that goes around the gold probe
20:51.42Twingyyou replace it every... 5 charges
20:51.46Twingycosts you $1
20:53.06Twingyand a tiny bottle of sulfuric acid
20:53.18Twingythat drips into the reservoir when resistance gets too high
20:53.32Twingywhich you replace once a year
20:54.02Twingyand a vent tube that vents oxygen and other gases outside
20:55.13Twingyput on a tiny 3k psi compressor like my hand pump, and you're set
20:55.45``Erikhrmmm
20:55.52``Erikrebuilt tranny would be $350-400
20:56.02Twingysure it's not the clutch?
20:56.18``Erikye
20:56.21``Erikclutch is like $50
20:56.22``Erikheh
20:56.30``Erikoh, you mean broken?
20:56.34Twingyyea
20:56.36``Erikquite
20:56.57Twingygonna do it?
20:57.02Twingyor scrap it for $1k?
20:57.06``Erikthe clutch engages and disengages fine, the stick has no control
20:57.14``ErikI intend to fix it...
20:58.48``Erikhere's one for $250
21:00.34TwingyI need to head to H&R block
21:00.40TwingyI want my $1200 tax return
21:00.43``Erikheh
21:00.50``ErikI need to get the rest of my forms and shit
21:01.04TwingyI've got house stuff and w2
21:01.21``Erikthe only hosue stuff I've gotten is the escrow interest w2
21:02.30TwingyI figure with my return money I can buy my hard wood floor and mill
21:03.47``Erikpick me up a gm nv1500 while you're out
21:03.48``Eriko.O
21:03.57Twingyheh, I just bought a 3d card a few nights ago
21:04.06``Erikgm, not nvidia
21:04.14``Erikthat's the kinda transmission my truck uses...
21:04.18``ErikO:-)
21:04.27Twingynv reminded me of nvidia
21:04.46Twingybought a fx5200 or something
21:04.50Twingyfor the computer upstairs
21:04.56Twingyit's got no three-dee
21:05.00Twingy1.3ghz celery
21:05.32``Erikall'z I know is when I start X, the machine starts posting...
21:05.38Twingyheh
21:09.18Twingywith the pooper I drove 14k miles a year
21:09.46``Eriktrips to jersey and nc probably accounted for half of that
21:10.01Twingy6k miles will be work
21:10.05Twingyyep
21:10.15TwingyI have 1 trip planned for nc
21:10.25Twingymom is giving me her new'ish $1700 couch
21:10.34Twingybought it in
21:10.37Twingy'02 I think
21:10.39``Eriksweet
21:10.44Twingy2 recliners on each end
21:10.53``Erikman, I have to make due with that pos couch I ave
21:10.53Twingygonna move the leather couch to the basement
21:10.54``Erik:(
21:11.02TwingyI think I've speant a total of about 50 hours in that couch
21:11.04Twingyheh
21:11.06Twingyand paid $900 for it
21:11.26TwingyI guess I'll throw it in the basement for now
21:15.22TwingyI wonder how long carbon nano tube engines will last
21:15.37Twingywould be nice having a warranty on the first million miles
21:15.56Twingyeven 500k
21:21.30``Erikthey'd find someone to engineer breakage in
21:21.32``ErikO.o
21:34.22Twingyhow big is your tank?
21:34.34``Erikuhmmm, on my car or truck?
21:34.40Twingyboth
21:34.51``Eriktruck is 19g, d'no about the car, probably close to the same
21:36.42Twingyah, mine appears to be 19.5
21:36.43``Erikthe 02 is 16.6
21:36.56Twingyhehe O2
21:36.59``Erikthe only utility of tank size is range..
21:37.02Twingylittle blue toaster
21:37.04``Erikindeed
21:37.12Twingysee my O2 haiku?
21:37.15``Erikyeah
21:37.16``Erikdork
21:37.17``Erik:D
21:37.18Twingy:)
21:37.30Twingythat has to be my oldest mark on the web
21:37.40Twingytoo bad my midi challenge page from '96 is gone
21:38.13``ErikI put a program on the web as shareware in '96, even got some money
21:38.50TwingyI got $5 for a gold handicapper in basic in '96 hehe
21:38.54Twingyerr golf
21:39.11Twingy30 cents an hour, woot
21:39.15``Erikhehehe
21:39.27Twingybill gates makes  $32 per heart beat
21:40.02TwingyWant to give more power to the standard 3.0-liter V-6? That's easy. Just install the Ranger Whipple Supercharger. Available through Ford Racing Performance Parts, this kit creates a super-charged engine achieving 230 hp at 5,400 rpm and 260 lb.-ft. of torque at 3,000 rpm. It is an easy-to-install system that fits under the hood with no permanent modifications to the vehicle and no wiring.
21:40.22``Erikheh
21:40.44``Erikthere's always a risk with overpressuring...
21:40.55TwingyI aint racing nobody
21:41.00Twingyso I got not need
21:41.10TwingyI do have racing stripes though :}
21:41.20Twingy+5% speed
21:41.21GuuTwingy: Don't make me shoot you.
21:41.40Twingyyou're lacking 5% then
21:41.46Twingyand 10% for no fin
21:41.51Twingyand 20% for missing 2 bug eaters
21:48.15Twingyhttp://www.yaplakal.com/uploads/previews/post-3-1138125896.jpg
21:50.37``ErikO.o
21:51.08Twingylooks like seaweed
21:51.15Twingyor rice
21:51.28Twingywindows sushi computer?
22:24.38docelicSomeone was very bored
22:54.43*** join/#brlcad DTRemenak (n=DTRemena@DHCP-170-143.caltech.edu)
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Jeff Waugh - find it at freshmeat.net! Modified by Tim Riker to work with blootbot logs, split per channel, etc. irclog2html for #brlcad on 20060126

irclog2html for #brlcad on 20060126

00:47.20CIA-13BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/TODO: fix archer file headers (update to indicate the assigned copyright that bob said they needed to be (see commit on src/archer/archer))
02:50.17pra5adhmm.. ERROR: bad pointer x805f570: s/b struct resource(x83651835), was Zero_Magic_Number(x0), file db_match.c, line 193
02:50.27pra5adwhen using db_open
02:52.09pra5adnm, needed db_dirbuild
03:04.34``Erikheh
05:30.06learneractually, you technically needed to init the global resource structure, but db_dirbuild does that for you
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18:22.02Twingy``Erik: 180lb-ft of torque w/o super
18:23.31Twingy260lb-ft of torque w/ super
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20:05.46``Erikthat's a lot of burnt rubber
20:06.03``Erikif you could figure out how to shift the weight back to hold the drive wheels down, it'd scoot
20:10.06Twingyyea
20:10.12Twingyflooring tiles :)
20:10.20Twingyor Ed and Chuck :)
20:13.24archivistyou need torque and weight ? http://www.oldengine.org/members/diesel/Marine/Fullagar1.htm
20:15.45Twingymmm 3,000 hp
20:16.12TwingyI suppose if my truck magically didn't get crushed under its own weight, I could dust erik
20:16.35Twingyof course, as soon as I drove under a power line my truck would blow up
20:17.42archivisttheres 1 or 2 fullagar's in oz else they've all been scrapped
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20:22.23Twingyoz?
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20:25.47archivist_australia
20:26.03Twingyah
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20:45.50CIA-13BRL-CAD: 03bob1961 * 10brlcad/src/tclscripts/archer/Archer.tcl: Add code to properly set the state of the edit buttons in the right side toolbar.
21:54.21CIA-13BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/configure.ac: meh, ordering cleanup
21:56.21CIA-13BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/m4/stage.m4: if stdout has been redirected to a file, don't output ansi control sequences
22:02.53``Erikburgerland
22:03.48``Erik(bear in mind, you need torque/weight for acceleration, you need weight on the drive wheels for traction... the more weight you add to the back, the more torque you need to maintain acceleration)
22:04.29Twingyyea, torque/weight curve peak
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22:05.30``Erikone reason trucks don't drag so well unless they have enough torque right off the line to pick the nose up and hold it there until you're fast enough that you lose the force where the tire contacts... :)
22:05.59Twingyit aint a racing machine :)
22:06.03``Eriknewp
22:06.27``ErikI should make you tow my truck to your place and help me pick up a transmission, then use your garage to fix it :D *duck*
22:06.46Twingyheh
22:06.52Twingymy garage aint got no room in it
22:06.59Twingystill organizing stuff
22:07.00``Eriklike $250 for a full refurb'd tranny
22:07.16``Erikget that shit cleaned up and get your towing hitch, bo'
22:07.19``Erik:D *duck*
22:07.55Twingygonna ask wendy for a day off next week
22:08.02``Erikfor the hitch?
22:08.05Twingyso'z I can do important things like get a hitch
22:08.22Twingyyea, I need to redeem my free hitch coupon, haha
22:08.54TwingyI suspect if I asked for free bed liner he'd have flipped me off
22:09.00``Erikprobably
22:09.39TwingyI think they only made $900 off me instead of the average $1200
22:09.44Twingyfor this particular vehicle
22:09.47``Erikheh
22:10.11TwingyMSRP minus dealer invoice
22:10.57``Erik'cept dealer pays less than invoice
22:11.13``Erikthey get 'incentive' rebates and shit
22:11.20TwingyI thought dealer invoice is what *they* pay, and msrp is what they *try* to get YOU to pay
22:11.24Twingyah
22:11.29Twingyrebates, mebe
22:14.09``Erikshooting copper slugs at mars, hrm
22:14.32``Erik(and here I thought copper was finding it's way to the list of rare metals, heh)
22:15.48Twingyfolks, I'd like to sing about the american dream, about me, about you, about the way our american hears beat way down in the bottom of our chests, maybe in the chest, maybe in the cockles, maybe in the sub cockles, maybe even in the colon.
22:34.38``Eriksean, help me out here... /usr/brlcad/bin/perf.sh: file ../pix/moss.log does not exist, aborting
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23:25.00justin_wee, picked up some lumber tonight
23:35.54CIA-13BRL-CAD: 03lbutler * 10brlcad/src/mged/typein.c:
23:35.54CIA-13BRL-CAD: When making an rpp whose min value is greater than the max value, we now report
23:35.54CIA-13BRL-CAD: the values so the user knows which ones were the problem.
Jeff Waugh - find it at freshmeat.net! Modified by Tim Riker to work with blootbot logs, split per channel, etc. irclog2html for #brlcad on 20060127

irclog2html for #brlcad on 20060127

00:19.28justin_was off by 3 degrees when I lined it up though :(
00:19.42justin_good thing this'll be under a bunch of drywall
00:21.44brlcadhehe
00:24.36``Erik3 degrees? damn you suck
00:25.38``Erikshoulda bought one of them deisel sipping wussmobiles o.O :D
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02:09.56justin_heh
03:49.48pra5adwhat's sean's email addy
04:01.15pra5adsegfault on g-nmg 35.g
04:10.37brlcadbacktrace?
04:14.48CIA-13BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10rt^3/misc/ (footer.sh header.sh indent.sh shtool): import helper scripts from brl-cad
04:16.01CIA-13BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10rt^3/misc/Makefile.defs: import definitions makefile from brl-cad for common make build rules
04:16.34CIA-13BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10rt^3/misc/Makefile.am: add initial Makefile.am
04:16.56pra5adah he's back
04:16.56pra5adsec
04:17.18pra5adhttp://pastebin.com/525134
04:18.03CIA-13BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10rt^3/misc/libtool.m4: add aux libtool.m4 file that gets moved to m4/ if there's a libtool failure
04:18.44CIA-13BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10rt^3/misc/.cvsignore: initial (empty) .cvsignore
04:19.51pra5adoh also
04:20.09pra5adt62 local2base is 1.0 , havoc is 10.0
04:20.23pra5adin the final render, havoc is much smaller than the t62
04:20.29pra5adwhich one is wrong
04:22.07CIA-13BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10rt^3/m4/ (9 files): initial m4 helper macros, imported from brl-cad build system
04:33.34brlcadsounds like you're scaling the wrong way
04:33.44brlcad* vs /
04:36.34brlcadshould be a mulitiplier iirc
04:36.59brlcade.g. havoc is in units centimeters, t62 is millimeters
04:40.34brlcadso if you don't scale the values, havoc will be a tenth the size
04:43.14CIA-13BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10rt^3/m4/Makefile.am: initial Makefile.am, adding m4 files to project
04:45.12CIA-13BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10rt^3/.cvsignore: initial (empty) .cvsignore
04:45.52CIA-13BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10rt^3/autogen.sh: update script to latest, importing update from brl-cad main
04:47.35CIA-13BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10rt^3/configure.ac: massive updates, borrowing from lessons learned in the brl-cad main. utilize the new m4 macros. stub out support for basic generic application build option support
04:50.36CIA-13BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10rt^3/Makefile.am: massive updates, borrowing from lessons learned in the brl-cad main. improve the support report and validation of the install dir permissions. inform aclocal to search the m4 directory for macros
04:52.32CIA-13BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10rt^3/src/libGeometry/Vec.cxx: include math.h for sqrt()
04:54.25CIA-13BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10rt^3/Makefile.am: include m4 and misc dirs in the distribution
04:55.39CIA-13BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10rt^3/configure.ac: generate the m4/ and misc/ Makefiles
05:07.26pra5adarr rwheel.g conversion is missing a lot of parts
05:37.02pra5addude, * vs / doesnt matter
05:37.17pra5adif i mult, havoc is too big
05:37.25pra5adas in 10x
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13:12.16CIA-13BRL-CAD: 03bob1961 * 10brlcad/src/tclscripts/archer/Archer.tcl: Convert a few instance variables into class variables.
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16:19.22Ordoghi
16:19.48Ordogi got a rather complex model consisting of 6 iges files
16:20.26Ordogi need to lower polycount or sth else
16:20.44Ordogdo you know a way to do that with rhino or this tool ?
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22:07.22CIA-13BRL-CAD: 03bob1961 * 10brlcad/misc/win32-msvc7/ (libdm/libdm.vcproj mged/mged.vcproj): Not using embedded framebuffer in MGED on Windows.
22:11.33CIA-13BRL-CAD: 03bob1961 * 10brlcad/src/mged/ (cmd.c cmd.h): Added cmd_has_embedded_fb().
22:16.26CIA-13BRL-CAD: 03bob1961 * 10brlcad/src/tclscripts/mged/rt.tcl: Added the rt_check_dest proc. Disable framebuffer related menu items as these are pertinant only to the embedded framebuffer.
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22:19.38CIA-13BRL-CAD: 03bob1961 * 10brlcad/src/tclscripts/archer/cursor.tcl: The package require's argument needs to be BLT on Windows.
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Jeff Waugh - find it at freshmeat.net! Modified by Tim Riker to work with blootbot logs, split per channel, etc. irclog2html for #brlcad on 20060128

irclog2html for #brlcad on 20060128

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00:23.58*** topic/#brlcad is http://brlcad.org/ || BRL-CAD is now Free Software! || BRL-CAD Windows port has been merged to HEAD, not yet stable yet || Archer is now on HEAD as well, kick the tires, report any bugs || there WILL be a 7.6.8 released ASAP for January after all
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00:36.59CIA-13BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/ (128 files in 26 dirs): header cleanup, atof() requires stdlib.h on altix/posix, fix 64-bitness
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04:02.00justin_welp
04:02.04justin_scuba tank can be refilled now
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22:46.51CIA-13BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/ (15 files in 3 dirs): header cleanup, include stdlib.h for atol(). fixes some 64-bitness
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Jeff Waugh - find it at freshmeat.net! Modified by Tim Riker to work with blootbot logs, split per channel, etc. irclog2html for #brlcad on 20060129

irclog2html for #brlcad on 20060129

00:52.24CIA-13BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/ (19 files in 11 dirs): more libbu memory management and header cleanup
01:40.26CIA-13BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/conv/ (5 files in 3 dirs): update converters to the API changes, avoiding the deprecated calls
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08:39.59CIA-13BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/ (9 files in 6 dirs): update to api changes from rt_* to bu_* for certain routines.
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20:37.33egsavageHello everyone
20:38.55egsavageFirst, does anyone know of a binary distribution for ubuntu? Failing that, I'm trying to get past some 'configure' issues on my ubuntu box. Issue is the message:  configure: error: C++ preprocessor "gcc -E" fails sanity check
20:59.58brlcadhello
21:00.49brlcadegsavage: if you install g++, that error should go away, alternatively you should be able to run something like: ./configure CXXCPP=cpp
21:02.43egsavagehmm, i have g++ installed already
21:03.03egsavageodd i shouldn't be fine without that other configure option
21:03.03brlcadhmm indeed
21:03.10brlcadit should
21:03.19brlcadcan you post the config.log file?
21:03.28brlcador send it to me
21:03.45egsavagepost where?
21:04.40egsavageshall i send you the file via irc or some website?
21:05.11brlcadwhatever is convenient
21:05.21egsavagelet me try it again though - i just installed the kernel source tree package - i saw some reference somewhere saying that could fix the issue
21:05.45brlcaddid it work with the CXXCPP?
21:05.51egsavagesame failure
21:05.55brlcadk
21:06.05egsavagei can try with that configure option if you want me to try
21:06.08brlcadat the end of the config.log file, it should have the compile test that failed
21:06.22brlcadahh, yeah try with that option
21:06.27brlcadif you would
21:07.02egsavagenow it says "cpp" fails sanity check
21:08.19brlcadwhich shouldn't happen :)
21:08.32brlcadneed to see what the error is
21:09.27brlcadyou can run: less config.log, hit shift-g which takes you to the end of the file, then hit 'b' to go back a page.. keep going back until you get to an error
21:10.18egsavagetrying to dcc the file to you - may not work because of my firewall config though
21:10.50brlcadgot it
21:11.33brlcadconfigure:13889: gcc -E -I/usr/X11R6/include -I/usr/local/include conftest.cc
21:11.34brlcadgcc: installation problem, cannot exec 'cc1plus': No such file or directory
21:12.03egsavagehmm
21:12.16egsavagei noticed in the configure log it said there is no g++ too - but there is
21:12.28egsavagei can invoke it on the command line (g++ that is)
21:12.59egsavagehmm, wait, i thought I could - now it says not found... gcc worked though
21:13.37brlcadstill "shouldn't" need it
21:13.51brlcadbut there's some tests external to brl-cad that expect it
21:13.59brlcadeven though the code is C
21:14.48egsavageaha, got past it! ;-)
21:15.10egsavagefor whatever reason, g++-3.4 was installed - i installed g++-4.0 with synaptic and its rolling through it now
21:15.51egsavageconfigure finished !
21:15.59egsavagetime for the build now
21:16.58egsavagemake is cruising now
21:28.15brlcadis this a production install? :)
21:28.20brlcadif so.. you should add --enable-optimized
21:28.55brlcadotherwise raytrace performance will be about half what it should be
21:30.14egsavagedoh!
21:30.29brlcadit's still fully functional
21:30.30egsavagei guess I should recompile? do a make clean and redo?
21:30.33brlcadand not a big deal
21:30.42brlcadbut .. it will run considerably faster ;)
21:30.50egsavagemight as well 'do it right'
21:30.51brlcadyeah, make clean
21:31.08egsavage12 mins, 48 seconds for the make
21:31.10egsavagenot bad
21:31.36brlcadnot too shabby
21:31.37egsavageadd those options to the command line or the config header file somewhere?
21:31.54brlcad./configure --help
21:32.11egsavagek
21:32.27brlcadthe INSTALL file also talks about the build in detail
21:33.11egsavageany other recommended options?
21:33.18egsavagei see there are plenty in the configure help
21:35.41brlcadnah, default is to auto-detect dependencies, so you don't need to install anything
21:36.04egsavageand it uses opengl by default?
21:36.07brlcadcould turn off run-time debugging for even more performance, but if this is your first go at it, I wouldn't bother
21:36.13brlcadby default yet
21:36.28brlcadthough it will look the same (wireframe) regardless of it being opengl
21:36.33egsavagek, hopefully i have all of the opengl libs needed
21:36.59brlcadif you don't it'll use the X11 interface, which looks/acts the same
21:37.02egsavagestarted the make again
21:37.24brlcadif this is a dual/quad processor machine, you can make in parallel
21:37.35egsavagei was thinking about that -j option on make
21:37.47egsavagebut i'd like some CPU for other stuff i'm doing on the box too ;-)
21:37.48brlcadyeah, it'll work like a charm
21:38.19egsavagewow!
21:38.38egsavagemaybe next go around if i rebuild i'll dare to crank it up
21:38.47egsavage3.2ghz p4 laptop here
21:39.12brlcadyou can ctrl-c safely, and make -j# -- it will pick up safely
21:39.29egsavagelet me try 3
21:39.43egsavageit's going
21:40.31brlcadit's been a while since an ubuntu compile, so there might be some minor build issue
21:40.34brlcadhopefully not
21:40.38brlcadwhat version are you compiling?
21:40.45egsavageit built last time, no errors
21:40.52egsavage7.6.6
21:40.56brlcadah, right, excellent
21:41.12egsavagelatest/greatest, although not the HEAD from CVS
21:41.24egsavagethe tar ball from sourceforge
21:43.53egsavageerror:
21:43.55egsavagegcc -DHAVE_CONFIG_H -I. -I. -I../../../include   -I/usr/X11R6/include -I/usr/local/include -I../../../include  -pipe -fno-strict-aliasing -fno-common -g -O3 -c jove_buf.c
21:43.55egsavageIn file included from jove_buf.c:64:
21:43.55egsavage./jove.h:256: warning: built-in function ‘exp’ declared as non-function
21:43.55egsavage./jove.h:477: error: conflicting types for ‘malloc’
21:44.31egsavagelook familiar?
21:48.55egsavagebeen awhile since I've been hacking C (Java mostly now), but it's extern char * malloc - shouldn't it be void *?
21:50.41brlcadahh yes
21:50.53brlcadodd that you didn't get that the first time
21:51.04brlcadyeah, it should be
21:51.14brlcadthat code was written well before ansi C
21:51.20brlcadwhen it used to be char *
21:51.41brlcadyou can --disable-jove if you want, or edit that header and remove the extern decl
21:53.25egsavagek, let me comment that malloc extern out
21:54.01egsavagemoving forward past there now
21:54.24egsavagestrange others haven't seen that issue
21:54.33egsavagethat jove stuff has been there for sometime, right?
21:55.53brlcadit's been there for over 15 years ;)
21:56.22brlcadjove isn't always compiled though -- that's the relatively recent change
21:56.30egsavagenever used jove myself, emacs, sure
21:56.36egsavageahh, ok
21:56.41brlcadsome compilers don't care also, though new build flags make conformance more strict
21:56.56egsavageam i a guinea pig? ;-)
21:56.59brlcadjove is "jonathan's own version of emacs"
21:57.10egsavagegnu or xemacs for me
21:57.21brlcadbasically a streamlined version of emacs with the 'wrong' keybindings ;)
21:57.58brlcadback when the invocation of emacs took 30-60 seconds or more, jove was 'fast'
21:58.20egsavagefor quick stuff i've used vim - not emacs, but quick
21:58.26brlcadno longer really an issue, but it's still shipped for historic reasons -- old users demand it ;)
21:58.48brlcadever try to take someone's editor away from them? :)
21:59.06egsavageoh, i'm sure its not pleasant
21:59.48brlcadi'd be fine with it myself since it's emacs-ish enough, but the bindings are foreign
22:00.03egsavageshow how well does brl-cad work with autocad drawings? good conversions?
22:00.29brlcadhmm, depends entirely on what you mean by drawings ;)
22:00.45brlcadfor strict 2D drawings, it doesn't like them much because they're not solid geometry
22:01.03brlcadfor 3D models in dxf, it's pretty good -- better than most converters
22:01.16brlcadmore complaint than blender, for example
22:01.21brlcadcompliant even
22:01.31egsavagei see dxf and dwg (?) files that I would like to view/edit
22:02.02brlcaddxf may be fine, dwg are often/usually 2d-only
22:02.28brlcadbrl-cad mostly only cares about solid geometry
22:02.30egsavagei'm new to cad myself ...
22:02.57brlcadmight as well say that patches (and new devs) are always welcome too ;)
22:03.37egsavageok, i'll remember that ... can you run with that jove.h fix though?
22:04.07egsavagerun, meaning, carry that fix through the CVS tree
22:05.27egsavagebuild is still going - optimized takes a bit more compilation time
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22:17.07brlcadindeed
22:18.20egsavageinstall finished...
22:19.32egsavagenow i guess i need to do the 'hard stuff' - read the docs and figure out how to use this! ;-)
22:19.34CIA-13BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/other/jove/jove.h: fix the malloc/realloc and exp decl conflicts, include stdlib.h
22:19.51egsavagethx brlcad for the jove fix
22:20.20egsavagesome other externs for other *alloc(),  but when in doubt and no error, leave it I guess
22:20.45brlcadthe ealloc is jove's
22:20.51egsavageok
22:21.01CIA-13BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/other/jove/ (11 files): s/exp/jove_exp/ to avoid conflicting with exp() in math.h
22:21.36egsavageah, i did see some warnings about that fly by too
22:22.51egsavagei'll have to go read that tutorial ... any quick test to see if my basic compile worked?
22:22.57brlcadyeah
22:23.05brlcadmake test
22:23.08brlcadand make benchmark
22:23.10egsavagek
22:23.31egsavageas regular joe, not root, right?
22:23.37brlcadthe latter will test system performance
22:23.38brlcadyeah
22:23.57brlcadroot would only be required to do a make install into a system directory
22:24.06egsavageright, did that
22:24.08egsavagetest is going
22:24.17egsavagesucking up that CPU ;-)
22:24.23egsavageit passed
22:24.38egsavagelet me do the benchmark
22:24.59brlcadif you did an install, you can also run the 'benchmark' tool to get the benchmark suite to run
22:25.44egsavageoh, too late - doing it via make now
22:25.55egsavagethis sends or runs forever?
22:25.58brlcadthat's fine, they're the same
22:26.02egsavageends i mean
22:26.07brlcadit ends
22:26.22brlcadit iterates until stable numbers are computed
22:26.33brlcadshould take about 10 minutes
22:26.42egsavagemoss said RIGHT
22:27.01brlcadyou could have cut that down considerably by running the tool directly and decreasing the iteration window ;)
22:27.12brlcadbut you'll get slightly better results with the default window
22:27.18brlcadthere are 6 tests
22:27.42egsavagei noticed there are lots of executables... are these all integrated in the UI too?
22:27.43brlcadit raytraces various models testing the performance and behavior of the raytracer
22:28.16brlcadno they're unfortunately not all integrated, but maybe 1/5 or 1/4 are integrated into mged
22:28.46egsavageis that the one i should try after the benchmark?
22:28.55brlcadthe new modeler integrates most all of them, but that's active development that probably wont hit hands until late summer at best
22:29.07brlcadyeah, mged is a good starting point
22:29.10egsavagek
22:29.17brlcadthe converters are all external to mged
22:29.31brlcadso you would probably interact with them early as well, dxf-g for example
22:29.54egsavageok
22:30.01egsavageon bldg391 now
22:30.55pra5adhmm i use ubuntu
22:31.11pra5ad(reading log now)
22:31.18egsavagegot it going on ubuntu now
22:31.23egsavagenot that painful
22:31.38egsavagejust make sure you have the latest g++ installed so configure can proceed
22:32.42brlcadi had a similar issue on a debian box a year or so ago, but the problem was worked around by setting CXXCPP (which configure now tries automatically iirc)
22:33.28brlcadah, yes.. here it is
22:33.29brlcad# libtool's configuration check has a bug that causes a /lib/cpp
22:33.29brlcad# sanity check failure if a C++ compiler is not installed.  This makes
22:33.30brlcad# the sanity test pass regardless of whether there is a c++ compiler.
22:34.19brlcadmight be a new test added in another part of the autotools m4 sourcse that also provokes the same problem now
22:34.30egsavagebenchmark results (for the debug build):
22:34.31egsavageBenchmark results indicate an approximate VGR performance metric of 1610
22:34.31egsavageLogarithmic VGR metric is 3.21  (natural logarithm is 7.38)
22:34.43brlcadnot bad at all
22:34.48brlcadespecially for a P4
22:34.56brlcadsingle cpu?
22:34.58egsavageoh, cool, good to hear ;-)
22:35.13egsavagep4 HT, but I haven't booted the SMP kernel yet
22:35.22egsavagejust built it - need to boot it
22:35.31brlcadHT doesn't buy much
22:35.36egsavageyeah
22:36.23egsavagestarted mged
22:37.43brlcadfor what it's worth, a VGR of 1 is the performance of an old VAX 11/780 supercomputer (circa 1977)
22:38.08egsavagei saw that in the log...
22:38.15brlcadwhich is one of the oldest machines to run brl-cad
22:38.17egsavagewhat should i try for a quick test in mged?
22:38.32brlcadhmm, a quick test..
22:38.42brlcaddid you create a new database?
22:38.45egsavagesomething to load up
22:38.50brlcadah, okay
22:39.06brlcadthere are simple example geometry databases that get installed
22:39.18brlcadif you installed into /usr/brlcad, they are in share/brlcad/7.6.6/db
22:39.34brlcadopen havoc.g
22:39.55brlcadthen 'e havoc' in the command window
22:40.09brlcadmaybe then: rt -F/dev/Xl
22:40.48egsavagea nice heli appeared ;-)
22:41.14brlcadrussian attack helicopter, relatively simple model
22:41.29brlcadbut more detailed than most of the example .g files
22:41.46egsavagenice solid view too
22:42.08egsavagecan i zoom in that rt?
22:42.31brlcadright/left click to zoom in/out
22:43.23egsavagezoom works on the wireframe, not solid
22:43.26brlcadthere are various shift-option-control clicks as well for various options
22:43.45brlcadah, you mean the window that popped up on the rt
22:43.52brlcadthat's a raster image, raytraced
22:43.57egsavageok
22:44.44brlcadthere's means to zoom them in/out but not as a /dev/Xl window
22:45.03egsavagethanks for your help! seems to be working well... Time to read/learn brlcad in the tutorial...
22:45.17egsavageMy wife just said dinner is ready so I'll be back later - thx
22:45.22brlcadno problem!
22:45.28brlcadif you have any questions, someone's usually here ;)
22:45.34egsavagethanks again!
22:45.34brlcador will eventually answer
22:59.50pra5adi had no probs compiling from head on breezy
22:59.57pra5ad*shrug*
Jeff Waugh - find it at freshmeat.net! Modified by Tim Riker to work with blootbot logs, split per channel, etc. irclog2html for #brlcad on 20060130

irclog2html for #brlcad on 20060130

00:13.59pra5adhehe just found chuck on a tribes server
00:32.33``Erikskeery
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14:17.26``Erikblarhg
14:17.36``Erik$bxp
14:18.01``Erikwoops, $hxp even, hehehhee
16:13.31Twingyhttp://www.cnn.com/2006/HEALTH/01/30/health.alcohol.reut/index.html
16:19.55``Erikah, that one says 2, also
16:20.01Twingyat amost 2
16:20.05Twingy*most
16:20.10Twingydoesn't mean 2
16:20.38``Erikit doesn't say at most, it says "the most recent"
16:20.59``Erikso drink up, bitch :D it's good for you
16:21.27Twingymaybe after I'm done remodeling my house
16:21.40``Erikdoes your hoa have policy on fixing cars?
16:21.43TwingyI reckon its lunch time
16:21.48Twingyno, it doesn't
16:21.57``Erikah, mine forbids it
16:21.59``Erik:/
16:22.00Twingyheh
16:22.05Twingyyour hoa sucks
16:22.11``Erikindeed
16:22.17``Eriktoo bad I'm stuck a little bit longer, heh
16:23.06Twingyunless you can find a bigger house with the same payments
16:23.11Twingyunlikely :)
16:23.32``Erikor shuffle so the new mortgage pays off the car
16:23.39Twingyuntil you can swing $1900/mo, I suspect you'll be in that place for a while
16:23.57``Erik1900/mo on mortgage? um, just barely, actually, heh
16:24.23``Erikwith the reduced lunch and booze budget
16:24.32Twingyso you can afford $2800 on car and house?
16:25.03``Erikyeah, barely
16:25.25``Erikas in; no new couch, no new computers, ...
16:25.39``Erikno more impulse buys like that fat caliper, heh
16:25.44TwingyI know I've got $100 comcast, $50 phone, $200 energy, $300 food, $100 gas, $150 insurance, $50 hoa
16:26.15``Erikmy food is lower, insurance only a tiny bit higher
16:26.36``Erikactually, this month, if you combine grocerys, eating out, and booze, I hit right at 300
16:27.10Twingyif my house and car were $2800, I'd need to make $3700/mo to break even
16:27.15Twingyafter taxes
16:27.36Twingywith $0 to buy toys
16:28.07archivistI wish I could break even
16:29.03Twingyhmm lunch
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18:52.02ace9109Lee B. online?
18:55.16*** join/#brlcad ace9109 (n=jason@host-69-145-252-100.bln-mt.client.bresnan.net)
18:56.17``Erikhe wasn't in his office when I walked by a few minutes ago o.O
18:57.00ace9109thanks
19:02.23ace9109you there?
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19:27.29CIA-13libIRC: 03jeffm2501 * 10libirc/examples/ (8 files in 4 dirs): the stupidest of IRC servers
19:37.48``ErikO.o
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23:02.38CIA-13BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/libpkg/ (tpkg.c Makefile.am): initial add of 'tpkg', an example file data transfer program. the program is written in a ttcp style, sending a file's data from a client to a server using libpkg for the network communication.
23:05.42CIA-13BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/NEWS:
23:05.43CIA-13BRL-CAD: new tpkg ttcp-style example application using libpkg. tpkg is an example file
23:05.43CIA-13BRL-CAD: data transfer program, written in a ttcp style, sending a file's data from a
23:05.43CIA-13BRL-CAD: client to a server using libpkg for the network communication. the example
23:05.43CIA-13BRL-CAD: sample application is installed for developer reference.
23:48.28CIA-13BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/TODO: add command line help options and manpage to 'benchmark' tool
Jeff Waugh - find it at freshmeat.net! Modified by Tim Riker to work with blootbot logs, split per channel, etc. irclog2html for #brlcad on 20060131

irclog2html for #brlcad on 20060131

00:51.23CIA-13BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/archer/ (6 files in 4 dirs):
00:51.23CIA-13BRL-CAD: to quote Bob's commit to src/archer/archer "All of archer including the
00:51.23CIA-13BRL-CAD: tclscripts is assigned to u.s. government and should be under the LGPL" so add
00:51.23CIA-13BRL-CAD: the boilerplate legal header and remove the survice claim. the COPYING file
00:51.23CIA-13BRL-CAD: requires this as well. also add the boilerplate variables footer while we're at
00:51.26CIA-13BRL-CAD: it.
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01:53.38tegtmeyemmm, tastes...pasty
02:05.11CIA-13BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/tclscripts/mged/points.tcl: footer
02:05.16CIA-13BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/tclscripts/cad_dialog.tcl: title
02:06.31``Erikheh
02:06.34CIA-13BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/tclscripts/rtwizard/ (21 files in 2 dirs): legal header changed from Library to Lesser to reflect current 'official' name of the license
02:06.57``Erikheh, doh, apple is too smart for em
02:06.57``Erikme
02:08.55CIA-13BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/tclscripts/ (41 files in 5 dirs):
02:08.55CIA-13BRL-CAD: to quote Bob's commit to src/archer/archer "All of archer including the
02:08.55CIA-13BRL-CAD: tclscripts is assigned to u.s. government and should be under the LGPL" so add
02:08.55CIA-13BRL-CAD: the boilerplate legal header. the COPYING file requires this regardless for all
02:08.55CIA-13BRL-CAD: commits whether implicit or explicit. also add the boilerplate variables footer
02:08.56CIA-13BRL-CAD: while we're at it.
02:10.56CIA-13BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/TODO: the archer headers are now fixed, reflecting the correct legal header that bob annotated in his commit log message to src/archer/archer and as the COPYING file requires of contributions by devs.
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03:21.09CIA-13BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/gtools/Makefile.am: make g_transfer a noinst program and a sample source application
06:00.32pra5adrofl, gary coleman in 'postal the movie'
06:00.38pra5adhi-larious
06:02.18pra5aduwe boll is about to ruin the far cry and dungeon siege franchises
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Jeff Waugh - find it at freshmeat.net! Modified by Tim Riker to work with blootbot logs, split per channel, etc. irclog2html for #brlcad on 20060201

irclog2html for #brlcad on 20060201

00:07.15*** join/#brlcad nKf (i=fKn@p54B53C9E.dip.t-dialin.net)
00:07.20nKfhi
00:08.04nKfwhich c++ preprocessor should i use for compiling brlcad?
00:08.59brlcadhello
00:09.06brlcadany
00:09.24brlcadif you're getting a c++ preprocessor error, it usually means that a preprocessor isn'
00:09.27brlcadisn't installed
00:09.35brlcader, that c++ isn't installed
00:09.44brlcadthe C preprocessor should work fine as well
00:10.03brlcadmight get away with ./configure CXXCPP=cpp
00:10.31nKfwell, cpp is installed (3.4 and 4.0) but none of them seems to work
00:10.50brlcadis g++ installed?
00:11.02brlcador tried the CXXCPP=cpp?
00:12.01brlcadneed to run out, back in 2 hours.. :/
00:12.35nKfg++ ? i use ubuntu.. i found no g++ package
00:13.29nKfin config.log i see the following message:  "cannot exec cc1plus: no such file..."
00:14.08nKfok, see you later or tomorrow, thanks anyway
00:22.22nKfstrange thing, you are right... g++ is not installed...
00:24.06nKfnow it work.. thanks a lot... byebye
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18:21.00pierHi everyone
18:21.33piera questin about replication and referencing
18:22.41pierWhat is the differences between the two procedures in building them?
18:22.50pierI mean the commands
18:22.56pierused
18:47.23brlcadwhich commands?  or is that what you're asking?
18:47.46brlcadin general when you create a combination with the g or comb commands, they are simply references, not copies, of the objects
18:47.53brlcadcp replicates an object
18:48.32brlcadyet if you cp a combination, it only replicates that combination, not the objects that are referenced inside that combination
18:48.55brlcadthere is a way to perform a "deep copy", but the command escapes me right this second
18:49.03brlcadand is generally discouraged ;)
18:49.33brlcadif you cp a primitive, it replicates that primitive just like how it replicates a combination
18:52.48pieras a matter of fact I created a combination
18:53.01pierthen copied it
18:53.23pierand moved as a matrix in the right place
18:53.41piermade several cp of the same comb
18:53.52pierand placed them but
18:54.28pierwhen a change in a dimension called this wasn't reflected in the other objects
18:54.46pierperhaps I did somethig wrong
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19:53.39pierSorry, my fault... it works ... perhaps had one two many
20:01.42piertoo
20:27.23pierBrlcad.. the translation of the second volume is getting on
20:27.28pierslowly though
20:28.19pierI hope to be able to work on it full time as soon as I get rid of some dead lines
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21:46.39*** join/#brlcad nelson (n=nelson@rrcs-72-43-17-50.nys.biz.rr.com)
21:47.35nelsonignorant question: can I use BRL-CAD to design plastic parts and then send off to a fab shop to have them made?
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23:06.07``Erikdepends on the format the fabricator can take...
23:19.00brlcadnelson_: for the most part, it can assuming the fab shop groks one of the formats brl-cad exports
23:36.12``Erik(finding out if the plastic part has the structural integrity to exist, however, is a different problem :) )
23:45.03nelson_So I should locate a fab shop first, and then ask them.  Okay, will do, thanks.
23:46.10``Erikyeah, I have a feeling "stl" is a common format, and brlcad exports stl files, but some places want them in a certain arrangement, so make sure to ask
23:46.19``Erik(like print fabricators want them 'layered'
23:46.19``Erik)
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23:51.00nKfhi
23:51.56nKfi'm back again with new questions :) while compiling i got this error message: ../../src/libdm/.libs/libdm.so: undefined reference to `XFreeDeviceList'
23:52.28nKfis a library missing? what could be the problem?
23:56.26``ErikX
23:56.42``Erikthat's an Xlib function...
23:59.43nKfbut xlib and xlib-dev ist installed
Jeff Waugh - find it at freshmeat.net! Modified by Tim Riker to work with blootbot logs, split per channel, etc. irclog2html for #brlcad on 20060202

irclog2html for #brlcad on 20060202

00:08.26nKfit is late in germany.. good night.. bye
00:59.54nelson_Before I download brlcad, can it load a .STEP file?
01:02.08``Erik".step"?
01:02.19``Erik(you can take a look at http://cvs.sourceforge.net/viewcvs.py/brlcad/brlcad/src/conv/ to see some of the supported formats...)
01:03.05``Erikthey're mostly in the form of from-to.c
01:03.50nelsonOooohhhhhhhh, it has IGES.  That's good.
01:04.43nelsonSTEP == Standard for the Exchange of Product Design
01:04.59nelsonPDES == Product Data Exchange using STEP
01:09.23nelsonI see.  A STEP converter is in progress.   http://www.freelists.org/archives/cad-linux-dev/05-2005/msg00000.html
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01:51.28brlcadthere is not a step converter yet, though another guy and I were working on one about a year ago
01:51.46brlcadit's even more complex than supporting iges was
01:51.52brlcadbut certainly doable
01:53.39nelsonyes, I can see that it's complicated.  :(
01:56.44brlcadwe were able to leverage an existing parser written years ago by nist, and updated it to the latest 10303 spec
01:57.00brlcadbut that still leaves implementing support for ap203 and/or ap214
01:57.27brlcadand *then* you can start thinking about the actual conversion process of how to go to/from brl-cad and iges
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02:28.47tegtmeyebrlcad, you around?
02:29.41brlcadmaybe
02:30.30tegtmeyewhat are you guys putting in usr/local in the std image? (macs)
02:32.45tegtmeyeI can't remember if I put gcc4.1 in there or if you guys did...
02:34.06tegtmeyeI think so, I just found a pretty big bug in 4.1, and I saw it was on pinion-didn't know if anyone else was using it...
02:34.15tegtmeyegood plan
02:35.00tegtmeyethanks.
02:35.09brlcadheh, np
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18:45.00razzbrlcad: WARNING: BRL-CAD 7.7.0 is apparently not installed yet.
18:45.00razzattempt to provide package Iwidgets 7.7.0 failed: package Iwidgets 4.0.1 provided instead
18:45.00razzinvalid command name "gui"
18:45.00razzMGED Aborted.
18:46.16razzbrlcad: The error above is what I get when I attempted to run mged on windows after compilation. What I my missing?
18:46.53razzbrlcad: I downloaded yesterday's brlcad build from cvs.
19:14.57brlcadrazz: ah, interesting
19:15.09brlcadthere's a manual "move files into place" step right now
19:15.19brlcadat least that's what I've been told not having compiled on windows yet
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19:16.44razzthats is true. And I have moved some files around. Also, it seems the trouble lies with the Iwidgets version
19:17.17brlcadthat's a variable setting, sounds more like a warning
19:18.42brlcadthe include/config_win.h should have it set to 4.0.2
19:20.04brlcadit "should" be 4.0.1
19:22.05razzit is set to 4.0.1
19:22.45razzthere is also an "invalid gui" error
19:24.45brlcadthat's because it's not finding the tclscripts directory
19:24.55brlcadgui is the first command that kicks off
19:25.02brlcadthat launches the gui
19:44.53brlcadrazz: run mged -c and select nu for the device
19:45.51brlcadthen run bu_brlcad_root . and bu_brlcad_data .
19:45.58razzI did and error message is -c option not available
19:46.12brlcadwoah
19:46.47brlcadwhat about mged -n
19:47.08razzsame error message
19:47.18brlcadis there a btclsh or bwish?
19:48.09brlcadif so, you can run those two commands in them also
19:48.53brlcadahhhh
19:48.56brlcad#ifndef _WIN32
19:48.56brlcad<PROTECTED>
19:48.56brlcad#else
19:48.56brlcad<PROTECTED>
19:48.59brlcad#endif
19:49.00brlcadboo hiss
19:49.33brlcadwonder why he did that, should be trivial to get working
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21:49.02CIA-13BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/configure.ac:
21:49.02CIA-13BRL-CAD: fix build issues on mac os x 10.2. there's no socklen_t type so pretend it's
21:49.02CIA-13BRL-CAD: size_t. old version of autoconf doesn't do anything with the arguments to
21:49.02CIA-13BRL-CAD: AC_C_BIGENDIAN, so just check the result and define NATURAL_IEEE/REVERSE_IEEE
21:49.02CIA-13BRL-CAD: conditionally.
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22:45.36nKfhi
23:00.52nKfsame question as yesterday: which library includes "XFreeDeviceList".. i got an error message "../../src/libdm/.libs/libdm.so: undefined reference to 'XFreeDeviceList'
23:01.45nKfthe same with 'XListInputDevice', 'XOpenDevice', and 'XSelectExtensionEvent'
23:03.52*** join/#brlcad pra5ad (n=pra5ad@pool-151-196-29-122.balt.east.verizon.net)
23:12.27brlcadhello
23:12.48brlcadnKf: that's an X11 symbol, sounds ike what ``Erik said was right
23:13.31brlcadI forget, did you compile yourself?
23:14.05nKfi try it :)
23:14.55nKfof cause it is a x symbol? but which library? xlib (what  ``Erik said) is installed
23:15.32nKfan the error message is "undefined reference" and not "library not found" ?
23:16.08brlcadit could be that your library doesn't have that symbol
23:16.12nKfmaybe a other library version?
23:16.20brlcadwhat are you trying to run?
23:16.27brlcadmged?
23:16.32nKfmake
23:16.38brlcadah, make error
23:16.41brlcadwhich dir?
23:16.44nKfright
23:17.08nKfsrc/bwish
23:17.35nKffirst gcc command work, but second leaves with the above error message
23:17.58brlcadpaste the compile line?
23:19.03nKfok, one moment
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23:19.45nKf2/usr/bin/gcc-4.0 -pipe -fno-strict-aliasing -fno-common -g -pipe -fno-strict-aliasing -fno-common -g -o .libs/btclsh cmd.o input.o main.o tcl.o  -L/usr/X11R6/lib -L/usr/local/lib ../../src/libtclcad/.libs/libtclcad.so /home/nutzer/test/brlcad-7.6.6/src/other/libtk/.libs/libtk8.4.so ../../src/librt/.libs/librt.so ../../src/libdm/.libs/libdm.so /home/nutzer/test/brlcad-7.6.6/src/librt/.libs/librt.so /home/nutzer/test/brlcad-7.6.6/src/libbn/.libs/libbn.
23:20.03nKfoh.. too long
23:20.10brlcadyeah, break up into pieces
23:20.20brlcador use pastebin
23:20.25brlcad~pastebin
23:20.28ibotpastebin is, like, a place to paste your stuff without flooding the channel - try http://pastebin.com/, or http://pastebin.ca, or http://channels.debian.net/paste
23:20.58nKf2/usr/bin/gcc-4.0 -pipe -fno-strict-aliasing -fno-common -g -pipe -fno-strict-aliasing -fno-common -g -o .libs/btclsh cmd.o input.o main.o tcl.o
23:21.13nKf2-L/usr/X11R6/lib -L/usr/local/lib ../../src/libtclcad/.libs/libtclcad.so /home/nutzer/test/brlcad-7.6.6/src/other/libtk/.libs/libtk8.4.so
23:21.55nKf2../../src/librt/.libs/librt.so ../../src/libdm/.libs/libdm.so /home/nutzer/test/brlcad-7.6.6/src/librt/.libs/librt.so /home/nutzer/test/brlcad-7.6.6/src/libbn/.libs/libbn.so
23:22.19nKf2/home/nutzer/test/brlcad-7.6.6/src/other/libpng/.libs/libpng.so ../../src/libfb/.libs/libfb.so /home/nutzer/test/brlcad-7.6.6/src/libpkg/.libs/libpkg.so /usr/lib/libGL.so
23:22.37nKf2-lXext ../../src/libbn/.libs/libbn.so /home/nutzer/test/brlcad-7.6.6/src/libbu/.libs/libbu.so ../../src/libbu/.libs/libbu.so -lc -lpthread /home/nutzer/test/brlcad-7.6.6/src/other/libtcl/.libs/libtcl8.4.so
23:22.48nKf2../../src/other/incrTcl/.libs/libitk3.3.so ../../src/other/incrTcl/.libs/libitcl3.3.so ../../src/other/libtk/.libs/libtk8.4.so
23:23.00nKf2-lX11 ../../src/other/libtcl/.libs/libtcl8.4.so -ldl -lnsl /home/nutzer/test/brlcad-7.6.6/src/other/libz/.libs/libz.so -lm ../../src/libtermio/.libs/libtermio.so -Wl,--rpath -Wl,/usr/brlcad/lib
23:23.17nKf2ok, i hope that was all
23:23.33nKf2the error message
23:23.41nKf2../../src/libdm/.libs/libdm.so: undefined reference to `XFreeDeviceList'
23:23.42nKf2../../src/libdm/.libs/libdm.so: undefined reference to `XListInputDevices'
23:23.42nKf2../../src/libdm/.libs/libdm.so: undefined reference to `XOpenDevice'
23:23.42nKf2../../src/libdm/.libs/libdm.so: undefined reference to `XSelectExtensionEvent'
23:26.26nKf2or : http://pastebin.com/536164
23:34.10nKfany idea ?
Jeff Waugh - find it at freshmeat.net! Modified by Tim Riker to work with blootbot logs, split per channel, etc. irclog2html for #brlcad on 20060203

irclog2html for #brlcad on 20060203

00:30.12brlcadsorry, was distracted
00:32.26brlcadyeah, I'm guessing you need more than -lX11
00:32.38brlcadprobably -lXi
00:33.03brlcadnKf: which would likely be /usr/X11R6/lib/libXi.a or .so
00:33.09brlcador maybe in another package
00:33.13brlcadthat isn't installed
00:33.23nKfok, i'll check it
00:33.35brlcadXmu, Xext are also possibilities, but Xi would be my first guess
00:34.14brlcadif you run: nm /usr/X11R6/lib/libXi.a | grep XFreeDeviceList    does it return anything?
00:38.25nKflibxmu libxext and libxi are installed, but /usr/X11R6/lib/libXi.a doesnt exists
00:42.19nKfok, it's in /usr/lib
00:42.48nKf00000455 T XFreeDeviceList
00:45.07brlcadtry: make LIBS=-lxmu -lxi if that's really how they're spelled (case sensitive)
00:45.21brlcader make LIBS="-lxi"  for starters
00:45.48brlcadshould be -lXi
00:46.00brlcadunless you really have a libxi with that case
00:49.27nKfhm, i have added -lXi manually to the makefile in src/bwish
00:49.38nKfLIBS=-lXi
00:49.58nKfLIBS=-lXi; make   on command line doesnt work
00:51.05brlcadsame error?
00:51.25brlcadlibs would need to still include -lX11 and others
00:51.54nKfwith manual entry to the makefile it works
00:52.10brlcadah, good
00:52.18nKfbut not with a definition on command line
00:52.26brlcadbtw, "LIBS=-lXi; make" should have been "LIBS=-lXi make"
00:52.42nKfhm ok...
00:52.46brlcadthough again, probably still missing other list
00:52.49brlcads/list/libs
00:53.11nKfat the moment it is compiling
00:53.16brlcadyou'll likely get that same error in other places
00:53.20brlcadlike src/mged
00:53.39nKfright
00:54.00nKfbut also solved with the manual entry
00:54.11nKfready :)
00:54.17brlcadheh
00:54.19nKfall passed
00:54.29brlcadmake X_LIBS="-L/usr/X11R6/lib -lX11 -lXi" might work too
00:54.53brlcadthat'll redefine just the X_LIBS which is what all the files should be using
00:56.54nKfok, installation tomorrow... it's 02:00 in the morning now - i should go to bed now :)
00:57.07nKfbye.. and thanks for your help...
01:00.06brlcadno problem
01:00.12brlcadgood look with the build
01:00.18brlcader, good luck
01:19.58pra5adis this in ubuntu?
01:22.55brlcadyep
01:45.59CIA-13BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/configure.ac: fallback to int instead of to size_t for the socklen_t check
01:47.52CIA-13BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/configure.ac: check for getprogname and setprogname functions for libbu
01:50.18CIA-13BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/libbu/brlcad_path.c:
01:50.18CIA-13BRL-CAD: make bu_argv0() static, it shouldn't be called by programs any longer. instead,
01:50.18CIA-13BRL-CAD: programs should use bu_getprogname() and bu_setprogname() to mimic the stdlib
01:50.19CIA-13BRL-CAD: interface functions of similar name. if the stdlib interface routines are
01:50.19CIA-13BRL-CAD: available, they'll get used.
02:02.39CIA-13BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/include/bu.h: bu_argv0 was replaced with bu_setprogname and bu_getprogname rather quickly so no need to deprecate it. just remove.
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02:08.05CIA-13BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/include/bu.h: er, bu_argv0() was declared twice. remove it.
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02:08.24CIA-13BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/ (libbu/brlcad_path.c mged/ged.c mged/setup.c): use bu_getprogname/bu_setprogname instead of bu_argv0
02:08.49pra5adim telling u
02:08.59pra5adbase ubuntu 5.10 install had 0 problems
02:09.13brlcadand that helps him how? :)
02:09.45pra5adhe can install 5.10 base =)
04:19.53pra5adis sourceforge down?
04:32.16brlcadno
04:34.47pra5adhmph
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06:37.18markragesanyone here?
06:44.49markrageshi?
07:00.40brlcadoop
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08:34.57brlcadmoof
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14:48.21polyspinIt looks like socklen_t is still a problem when compiling head on OS X
15:36.41``ErikO.o
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16:13.03pra5ad_werkbrlcad
16:13.18brlcadpra5ad_werk: nope
16:13.24pra5ad_werk(
16:13.28pra5ad_werk:(
16:13.48brlcadgo do situps, see if you can pass me up :)
16:15.20``Erik"hurrrrr *grunt*... uhhh, can we call that 2/3?"
16:15.20``Erik:}
16:27.51pra5ad_werkheh
16:28.11pra5ad_werksince the lunch crowd is staying put, i may just do that
16:31.10``ErikI kinda wanted to go to the bowling alley, but justin poopoo'd on that, he wanted to hit the drive through at booger king
16:33.21``Erik"If Osama B. isn't in Afghanistan, and if he isn't dead, we believe he is in another country" - US army General  ( http://qdb.us/32301 )
16:36.40pra5ad_werkmilitary intelligence
16:37.01clock_what if he's on the moon?
16:37.09clock_Or Mars?
16:42.07``Erik... have you been eating wall candy again?
17:41.07CIA-13BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/configure.ac: look for lseek function
17:44.47CIA-13BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/librt/db_io.c: lseek's use of off_t requires sys/types.h
17:57.22CIA-13BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/configure.ac: improve the socklen_t check, need to look in sys/socket.h as well as sys/types.h for the type. still fallback to int.
18:01.54pra5ad_werkshouldnt have done cardio before the situps
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21:42.18IngManhi
21:43.10brlcadhello
21:43.11IngManit gears
21:43.16IngManit gears
21:43.35IngManhow make it a gears ????
21:44.06brlcadhow to make gears, that would be the pattern tool
21:44.41brlcadsort of like this: http://sourceforge.net/project/screenshots.php?group_id=105292
21:44.50brlcadbut arbitrary gear types
21:45.59brlcadthis is covered somewhat in vol 3 iirc
21:46.08brlcadthe pattern tool is on the menu
21:48.23IngManhow I create the profile of the gear
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21:50.00brlcadeh, you don't have to create a profile, but if you wanted to, that would be a sketch/extrude object
21:50.47brlcadyou'd use csg, make a disk, union together or subtract the grooves using the pattern tool
21:51.52brlcadthat's two primary different techniques
21:52.25brlcadif you wanted to sketch a profile and extrude, that would be the sketch primitive and the sketch primitive (on the edit menu)
21:52.44brlcadthe recommended approach, however, is to use csg operations/objects and pattern
21:55.51IngManusign the csg, what primitive is a tooth of the gears
21:56.16brlcaddepends on the type of gear
21:56.39brlcadif it's square edged, probably would use an arb
21:56.49clock_brlcad: how do I make metric winding?
21:56.55brlcadif it's rounded like on that bike wheel, probably a cylinder
21:57.25brlcadclock_: a metric winding is what?
21:57.30clock_brlcad: screw
21:57.43brlcadthat tapers?
21:58.04clock_No, ordinary winding, like on say M10x50 bolt
21:58.40clock_if you have bolt and nut then there are special grooves on the bolt
21:58.58clock_and the nut which hold them together and allow them to slide along slowly if you turn them many turns.
21:59.04brlcadpicture?
21:59.19clock_I want to make a cylinder with this grooves which I call winding
21:59.41clock_brlcad: or thread
22:00.08clock_http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Screw_thread
22:00.21clock_Metric: M Profile Thread Form
22:00.42clock_brlcad: how do I make a thread in brlcad?
22:02.31IngManbut if it is a helical gear
22:03.27IngManI suppose that of the same form that
22:14.55brlcadthreaded and helical structures can be made with torii and/or pipes
22:15.25brlcadit's a rather complex operation to do in csg, really need a path sweeping primitive to do it better
22:15.28brlcadbut it can be done
22:16.29brlcadimagine a half-torus subtracted by two half-torii offset half the distance
22:17.32brlcadthat gives you a curved winding segment
22:17.46brlcadtie them together with matchin radii on the ends and you form a thread
22:18.15brlcadhave some models that do this, but most don't need that level of detail as it doesn't affect an analysis
22:28.26``ErikO.o
23:26.50justin_welp, I got me a hitch now
23:32.50justin_sean, I tracked down the bug with the fused vertices
23:33.20justin_it was chewing on a null vertice... didn't have time to figure out why it was null, but put in a work around which allowed me to tesselate it
23:35.09brlcadthat's how they usually are
23:44.00pra5adg-nmg related?
Jeff Waugh - find it at freshmeat.net! Modified by Tim Riker to work with blootbot logs, split per channel, etc. irclog2html for #brlcad on 20060204

irclog2html for #brlcad on 20060204

00:01.40brlcadyes
01:02.24CIA-13BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/libbu/ptbl.c: cleanup, doxygenify
02:18.32pra5admost excellent
02:18.59pra5adperhaps this'll produce 100% conversion
02:25.49*** join/#brlcad archivist (n=archivis@host217-35-76-52.in-addr.btopenworld.com)
03:25.26brlcad100% conversion?
03:25.31brlcadyou mean from that fix?
03:25.45brlcadthere are lots of cases like that known to crash..
03:26.26brlcadi should probably write a script that walks all the objects in every .g in a directory, performing a g-nmg and nmg-bot hunting for crashes
03:26.32brlcadjust to weed them all out
03:26.46brlcadsince they are generally trivial to fix once encountered
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04:38.42pra5adu do that mister morrison =)
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15:31.45CIA-5BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/librt/nmg_mk.c: prevent crashing in nmg_kvu() when the vertex use structure has a null parent and/or null up pointers for whatever reason. user reported crash on the *vu->up.magic_p -- this fixes that crash.
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15:39.26CIA-5BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/mged/titles.c: ws indent
16:09.09CIA-5BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/mged/titles.c: prevent crashing if we're unable to print the title of an illuminated path. this fixes sf bug 1218812 reported by clock3.
16:14.06CIA-5BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/NEWS:
16:14.06CIA-5BRL-CAD: fixed multiply referenced object illumination bug (sf bug 1218812) where mged
16:14.07CIA-5BRL-CAD: fails to properly track the muliply referenced objects causing a bad directory
16:14.07CIA-5BRL-CAD: list, causing a crash. the reported crash is fixed though multiply referenced
16:14.07CIA-5BRL-CAD: objects (in a single combination) are still problematic. also fixed a bug in
16:14.07CIA-5BRL-CAD: the nmg code where it was crashing while freeing an nmg object.
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Jeff Waugh - find it at freshmeat.net! Modified by Tim Riker to work with blootbot logs, split per channel, etc. irclog2html for #brlcad on 20060205

irclog2html for #brlcad on 20060205

07:04.23*** join/#brlcad clock_ (n=clock@84-72-89-36.dclient.hispeed.ch)
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17:32.12CIA-5BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/libfb/tcl.c: need stdlib for free(), change to libbu memory management in other places
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17:41.58CIA-5BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/conv/g2asc.c: convert to libbu memory management
17:48.30CIA-5BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/mged/fbserv.c: need stdlib.h for malloc/free
19:17.05CIA-5BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/other/URToolkit/cnv/giftorle.c: need unistd.h for read()
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19:36.24CIA-5BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/other/URToolkit/cnv/giftorle.c: calling a FILE* an fd doesn't make it one. don't try to read() it either, get the read fd from the fd file pointer
19:37.15CIA-5BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/NEWS: fixed read bug in giftorle
19:46.02CIA-5BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/regress/ (Makefile.am shaders.sh): output to shaders.log, not mged_shaders.log
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Jeff Waugh - find it at freshmeat.net! Modified by Tim Riker to work with blootbot logs, split per channel, etc. irclog2html for #brlcad on 20060206

irclog2html for #brlcad on 20060206

03:12.41*** join/#brlcad PrezKennedy (n=Apathy@c-68-33-243-45.hsd1.md.comcast.net)
03:16.43``Eriklet's get retarded in here o.O
03:55.54pra5adheh seattle got screwed over by the refs
05:18.23brlcadgood game
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15:57.19CIA-5BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/libpkg/Makefile.am: libtool apparently cannot resolve the dependency on libpkg with the library listed with a full path so provide it a local-dir dependency
17:52.55CIA-5BRL-CAD: 03lbutler * 10brlcad/src/conv/dxf-g.1: reformatted page so that options are called out in a more readable fashion.
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20:10.28CIA-5BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/regress/shaders.sh: output raytrace scripts using the .rt suffix convention, fix the pixdiff stderr so that it doesn't append, overwrites. fix the tr to handle multiple lines anyways.
20:45.12CIA-5BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/include/rle_config.h: ws
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23:16.20CIA-5BRL-CAD: 03lbutler * 10brlcad/src/conv/g-nmg.1: formatting of the options, and expounding a little to (hopefully) improve clarity.
Jeff Waugh - find it at freshmeat.net! Modified by Tim Riker to work with blootbot logs, split per channel, etc. irclog2html for #brlcad on 20060207

irclog2html for #brlcad on 20060207

00:11.05CIA-5BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/conv/g-nmg.c: if the shader is null, prevent a crash on strtok'ing it
00:12.53CIA-5BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/NEWS: prevent several g-nmg segfaults
00:54.29CIA-5BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/other/libpng/pngtest.c: protect against jmpbuf define in IBM SP4 headers
00:58.55pra5adbrlcad,
01:00.19brlcadthere are lots of ways to represent it
01:00.39brlcadcould be a revolved spline curve
01:00.49brlcadcould be a set of spline patches
01:01.20pra5adwhat ways? brep?
01:01.26brlcadyes
01:01.31pra5adk
01:01.34pra5adand brlcad?
01:01.44brlcadbrl-cad uses primarily implicit geometry
01:02.01pra5adthat's the official term? 'implicit geometry' ?
01:02.07brlcadwhere a sphere (and most of the primitives) are defined by a mathematical function
01:02.46brlcadand where the function is > 1, you're outside, < 1 you're inside, == 1 you're on the surface (for a unitized homogeneous space)
01:03.00pra5adoh..
01:03.39brlcads/1/any constant for that matter/
01:03.51brlcadheh, ibot shuttup
01:04.36brlcadpra5ad: it's an isosurface
01:05.11pra5adwill the definition of an isosurface be adequete to describe the representation?
01:05.16brlcadintrinsicly, implicits are more "pure" from a mathematical standpoint though there are tradeoffs and implications
01:05.56pra5adwhat would u want from reverse tesselation then? the isosurface?
01:06.23pra5adduh, of course
01:06.27pra5adforget i asked =)
01:06.28Guu`I've never heard of i asked =), pra5ad!
01:06.39pra5ado.0?
01:07.30brlcadthis is a half-assed difference between csg and brep http://www.cadcamcenter.com/cadcam/solid_modeling.htm
01:07.39brlcadthere are better sites
01:07.49brlcadbut it's a quick summary
01:08.55brlcadexample, for a sphere _primitive_, brl-cad doesn't store spline curves/patches or triangles or wire edges -- it simply stores the position and radius and denotes it as a sphere object
01:10.04pra5adright
01:10.20brlcadso when a ray is shot against it, it performs the mathematical line-vs-sphere intersection equation which basically boils down to a simple quadratic equation like you learned in algebra
01:11.13brlcadfor a spline brep, the computation is considerably more intense as you have to evaluate your intersection with spline patches to determine if you are inside or not, whether you hit or not, etc
01:11.38brlcadinstead of just -b +- sqrt(b^2 - 4ac) / 2a
01:12.34pra5adright
01:13.41pra5adheh have u seen the brlcad wiki discussion page?
01:16.27brlcadoh, discussion? no
01:16.53brlcadah, heh
01:16.58brlcadi wondered the same thing.. ;)
01:17.06brlcadsome m1a1 fan beefed up the paragraph
01:25.21``Erikall your tank are belong to my butt
01:35.14*** join/#brlcad enginuitor (n=enginuit@209-128-75-162.bayarea.net)
01:38.10enginuitorWhat, no RPMs? :-D
01:40.17brlcadheh
01:41.09brlcadused to make rpms, i'm sure we'll make them again here soon too
01:41.19``Erikhm, thought we had one in the archive, heh
01:41.21brlcadjust more pressing issues than fixing the rpm sripts ;)
01:41.36``Erikwas that back in 6?
01:42.00``Eriktell wendy that my ueber-guruism is needed or something o.O heh
01:42.02brlcadall of the 6 releases had rpms, that's how the linux binaries were officially made
01:42.17brlcadold cake build system had an rpm step that was "turn key"
01:42.48``ErikI put in a make target and had an rpm spec file generated from a .in
01:42.53``Erikwhy'd you break it?
01:43.06brlcadpra5ad: so got that lod done yet?  folks lined up asking for it ;)
01:43.21``ErikI also had some of a debian build in there, too, iirc... if not, I have the make target somewhere that I can c&p
01:43.24brlcadi didn't break it.. I just put it into it's own file :)
01:43.56brlcadthe spec file is still there somewhere, misc i think
01:44.17brlcadrpm would be trivial to revive... just a matter of priority
01:44.37``Erikshut up and tell wendy that my ueber-guru-ism is needed.
01:44.38``Erik:D
01:45.48brlcadeasier to just write code and get some analyst backing your work ;)
01:46.00``Erikheh
01:46.07``Erikwhat analyst is gonna back build-system fixes?
01:46.31brlcadnah, that'd just be fluff for something else
01:46.43brlcadlike the reverse tesselator!
01:47.15``Erikheh, that's a nontrivial operation
01:47.27brlcadpra5ad: reverse tesselation would go from either surface points and/or triangles (with maybe even the presumption of inside/outside still being known)
01:47.29enginuitorSilly question, but which of the 435 executables in the bin/ directory starts the program?
01:47.31enginuitor:-D
01:47.40brlcadenginuitor: they all start _some_ program ;)
01:47.42``Erikthey all start a program
01:47.48enginuitor:-D
01:47.53``Erikbut you probably want the gui thingy, which is mged
01:47.54brlcadyou're probably interested in the modeler if you're just getting started
01:47.58enginuitoryup
01:48.00enginuitorThanks
01:48.15brlcadit requires training/learning/reading :)
01:48.20enginuitor...and so it begins
01:48.21brlcadmoderately complex
01:48.28brlcadthere are manuals on the website
01:48.46brlcadsuggest reading all of volume I just to get some context (it's a short 1,2-pager)
01:48.50enginuitorFirst, I must install this "libtermio.so.1" that it's complaining about
01:49.00brlcadthen work through the tutorials in volume II "intro to mged"
01:49.10``Erikexport LD_LIBRARY_PATH=/path/to/brlcad/lib
01:49.47brlcadif it's complaining about it, probably didn't install it -- might need to install it from rpm or compile brl-cad yourself
01:50.01enginuitorAh, it's working now
01:50.03brlcadthe binary distributions need to be more religious about --enable-everything
01:50.05``Erikan rpm should fail on dependancy...
01:50.34brlcadand the package systems should be more religious on eiter --disable-everything or --enable-everything
01:50.44enginuitor``Erik: How might I go about causing that to happen automatically so that I don't have to set that path each time?
01:50.44``Erikheh
01:51.01``Erikyou use leenwx, enginuitor?
01:51.15enginuitorHaven't heard of it, so I'm guessing not ;)
01:51.19``Eriklinux?
01:51.36brlcadnoticed that while the itcl/itk checks in configure work now, mged/bwish doesn't properly adapt to the twisted auto_path
01:51.37``Erikactually, what shell do you use... bash?
01:51.44enginuitorahh
01:51.48enginuitorYes, Bash
01:51.54``Erikindeed, sean, I noticed that as well... libbu shits itself :(
01:52.09``Erikedit .bashrc and put "export LD_LIBRARY_PATH=/path/to/brlcad/lib" in it
01:52.15enginuitorok
01:52.17``Erikand also, add /path/to/brlcad/bin to the PATH
01:52.28``Erikand perhaps do export BRLCAD_ROOT=/path/to/brlcad
01:52.32``Erik(root or home?)
01:52.40enginuitor/usr/local/brlcad
01:53.11enginuitorOw, I can barely read the menu titles
01:53.18enginuitorIs it possible to change their font?
01:53.26brlcadyes
01:53.40brlcadfile->preferences->font or somesuch
01:55.42``Erikholy shit, that was awesome... she burned him so good
01:56.44brlcadack, dont' set BRLCAD_ROOT!
01:56.55``Eriknot anymore? heh, woops, sorry :D
01:57.12brlcadonly if the binary gets relocated to something other than the --prefix
01:57.42enginuitorHmm... is there something in particular I must do to cause my new settings to be preserved when I exit?
01:57.43brlcadyeah, it took a few releases to "get it right"
01:57.49brlcadtrying to make it die
01:57.56enginuitorI changed the font settings, then exited and restarted, and they had reverted
01:58.06brlcadfor the benchmark, there are like a dozen env vars that can be set
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01:58.20brlcadenginuitor: hit the update .mgedrc button on the file menu
01:58.24``Erikyeah, fixing DB_DIR, LOG_DIR and PIX_DIR didn't fix it for finding db, log, or pix files.
01:58.25brlcadafter changing the settings
01:58.33enginuitorAhh, thanks
01:58.41brlcadit's not DB_DIR, just DB=,PIX=, etc
01:58.46``Erikyeah
01:58.51``Erikheh, I looked at the script to find 'em
01:59.03``Erikbut they didn't work for some reason, something at the end failed with a "perf.sh" or something
01:59.15``ErikI surspect something got broken and an old benchmark script was being left
01:59.17brlcadahh, that's right -- it was a hardwired bad path search for pref.sh in one version
01:59.50brlcadshould have just pulled a new benchmark script from a checkout -- would have worked outright
02:01.19brlcadshould smoke the current leader
02:03.18enginuitorI have a "BRL-CAD Tutorial Series: Volume II – Introduction to MGED" PDF here that says it's from April 2001... is there anything more recent out?
02:04.31brlcadfor where you're starting, that's still completely relevant
02:05.01brlcadsome of the screenshots might be slightly different, some menus renamed/moved, but feature-wise and the tutorials should be unchanged
02:05.23brlcadI could regenerate the pdf and slap a 2006 on it if it'd make you happy, but the contents wouldn't change ;)
02:06.44enginuitorhehee, ok
02:07.11enginuitorQuick question... what's the command to create a new database? The tutorial only covers doing it with the mouse (yech!) :-D
02:07.25enginuitor"new" isn't it, apparently ;)
02:09.25brlcadopendb will do it on the mged command line
02:09.41brlcador if you specify a filename when you invoke mged (e.g. mged foo.g)
02:12.59enginuitorok, thanks
02:25.40enginuitorUh-oh... my hands slipped on the keyboard, and now my model is rotating around on its own
02:25.44enginuitorWhat did I press?
02:25.49enginuitor...and how do I make it stop? :)
02:27.54enginuitorhelllllp
02:34.57``ErikOMG, pull the power cord, the cpu is going into fission mode! it's gonna EEEXXXPPPLLLLOOOODDDDEEEEE
02:35.02``Erik(sorry, I'll shut up and behave)
02:35.27``Erik(I don't know how to fix that... I'm lost in the gui thingy)
02:35.42``ErikI can't use it, I just code it :(
02:41.02enginuitorhehee
02:41.07enginuitorI exited :)
02:42.04enginuitorMGED looks really promising, but since this project has to be done by the 14th, I think I'll get out some paper and a pencil
02:42.07enginuitor:-d
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03:01.57brlcadpress 0 to stop
03:02.09brlcadxX yY zZ rotate
03:04.38enginuitorahh :)
03:05.08PrezKennedythe web 2.0 is coming and we're all doomed
03:05.35brlcadi should also bind esc to stop.. it's a common "uh oh" :)
03:05.47``Erikman, get with the times, they're already writing about web 3.0
03:06.24PrezKennedyif it sucks like version 2, the WWW will implode
03:06.41``Erikwhy does '2.0' suck?
03:07.05``Erik(and the web has sucked every since trumpet winsock came out)
03:07.32enginuitorNeat... are there keys that will rotate the object only when they are held down?
03:07.43PrezKennedymost of the sites that use the "web 2.0" buzzword are all the same
03:08.00``Eriklike local.google.com ?
03:08.10PrezKennedylike somehow i need another online calendar or portal page
03:08.32``Erik... calendars and portal pages were over-used far before ajax hit the scene
03:15.24pra5adfolks? dondesta?
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06:05.04CIA-5BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/util/ttcp.c: OS X 10.2 doesn't have socklen_t so instead of requiring common.h, just leave it as an int and let the warnings slide for now (again?) if there are any.
06:12.49CIA-5BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/ (libmultispectral/Makefile.am liboptical/Makefile.am):
06:12.50CIA-5BRL-CAD: separate out libs to one-per-line, progress once again towards making the
06:12.50CIA-5BRL-CAD: librtms convenience library non-static-only to avoid libtool bugs on various
06:12.50CIA-5BRL-CAD: platforms. it is noted that the version of libtool that ships with mac os x
06:12.50CIA-5BRL-CAD: 10.2 will not correctly function here, as it ends up adding librtms multiple
06:12.52CIA-5BRL-CAD: times as a static library (regardless of -static) resulting in muliply defined
06:12.54CIA-5BRL-CAD: symbol errors.
06:17.27CIA-5BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/fb/fbline.c: avoid 'y1' since AIX math.h header defines a y1()
06:19.57CIA-5BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/libpkg/.cvsignore: ignore tpkg
06:25.36CIA-5BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/ (mged/dm-X.c libdm/dm-X.c): aix Xutil.h header uses Bool #define which is provided by Xlib.h, which Xutil.h doesn't include for you. so we need to include Xlib.h first.
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06:33.17tazoousers
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13:56.47``Eriknyark
15:58.00CIA-5BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/doc/README.MacOSX: comment on how compiling on 10.2 requires additional effort due to the busted libtool script
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19:08.40Hex29aanyone in here use this with CAM softwarE?
19:10.47Hex29aelo?
19:12.50Hex29ahello?
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20:20.11pra5ad_werkbrlcad
21:17.46``Erikheh, "vi ~/.emacs"
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Jeff Waugh - find it at freshmeat.net! Modified by Tim Riker to work with blootbot logs, split per channel, etc. irclog2html for #brlcad on 20060208

irclog2html for #brlcad on 20060208

05:09.32brlcadheh, pretty cool
05:09.35brlcadhttp://www.chrispaulvfx.com/ChrisPaulVFXReel2005_Big.mov
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21:36.31CIA-5BRL-CAD: 03lbutler * 10brlcad/doc/html/manuals/mged/mged_cmd_index.html: better description of dbbinary based upon user feedback.
23:41.13CIA-5BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/BUGS: fbed is looking for something in brlcad_data vfont path
Jeff Waugh - find it at freshmeat.net! Modified by Tim Riker to work with blootbot logs, split per channel, etc. irclog2html for #brlcad on 20060209

irclog2html for #brlcad on 20060209

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05:30.44CIA-5BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/BUGS: query_ray can't find nirt if not installed
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06:32.58brlcadwoot, tessellator is working
06:35.32pra5adcommit!
06:35.44brlcadheh
06:36.02brlcadthis is mainly proof of concept
06:36.28brlcadeverything is hard-wired right now.. but it does seem to work now
06:37.57brlcadthis poor lil glut app can't handle it, especially with all the ogl debug dots that show where it evaluated the implicit
06:41.34brlcadbad thing about it is that it doesn't do well with low poly counts, so you end up with a tremendous number of polys -- begs for decimation
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Jeff Waugh - find it at freshmeat.net! Modified by Tim Riker to work with blootbot logs, split per channel, etc. irclog2html for #brlcad on 20060210

irclog2html for #brlcad on 20060210

00:39.55pra5adanyone see the gorillaz hologram performance at the grammys?
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05:35.58CIA-5BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/libtclcad/tkCanvBezier.c: smooth out the spline drawing by drawing 500 segments instead of just 50. no more chunkiness.
05:38.11PrezKennedychunky bad! smooth good!
05:51.22CIA-5BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/librt/g_sketch.c: clean-up, ws, etc.
05:52.32brlcadheh
05:53.29CIA-5BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/NEWS: smoother sketch primitive spline drawing
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15:13.08CIA-5BRL-CAD: 03twingy * 10brlcad/src/adrt/ (bench/bench.c rise/slave/slave.c): ADRT compiles happily again.
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22:00.25enginuitorI'm pretty new to MGED... is there a way to create multiple individual parts, then attach them together in an assembly?
22:38.52enginuitorOK, forget that... more fundamental question first...
22:39.26enginuitorsay I create a rectangular prism, then I want to edit its dimensions afterward
22:39.32enginuitorWhat's the command to do that?
Jeff Waugh - find it at freshmeat.net! Modified by Tim Riker to work with blootbot logs, split per channel, etc. irclog2html for #brlcad on 20060211

irclog2html for #brlcad on 20060211

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01:52.48enginuitorHow do I edit the dimensions of a shape?
01:54.28enginuitorTried "edit", "change"...
01:56.26enginuitor"chg"...
01:56.32enginuitor"e"...
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03:48.11Twingyenginuitor, there is a primitive editor
03:48.30Twingyyou have to select the primitive, then a gui will let you control values
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04:22.12cad105hello, is it possible to model a complex object and then computationally calculate its approximate volume with brlcad?
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17:50.34brlcadenginuitor: you go into solid edit mode to edit any primitive you make
17:50.57brlcadthe edit menu is a good place to start ;)
17:51.54enginuitorMenu? What about the command line? :)
17:51.54brlcadas for "create multiple individual parts, then attach them together in an assembly" .. parts in brl-cad are called 'regions', you combine regions into higher level combinations/groups to make the equivalent of an assembly
17:52.00enginuitorok
17:52.47brlcadthe 'sed' command will go into solid edit mode on a given primitive
17:52.58brlcador you can kill then, and re-'in' then
17:53.17brlcaddepending on the primitive, there are specialized commands for certain edit operations
17:54.31enginuitorOK, I'm in solid edit mode now... the edges of the object turned white, and numbers appeared by the vertices
17:55.23enginuitorHold on... before I bother you any more, lemme see if the tutorial covers this...
17:55.25enginuitor:)
17:59.17brlcadfor basic operations, you can use the tra/sca/rot commands to translate/scale/rotate etc
17:59.43brlcadthe tutorial mostly focuses on the gui of course though the commands are slowly covered over many tutorials
18:00.42enginuitorHmm, OK, sca works for scaling the entire object, but is there a way to directly edit the dimensions?
18:01.00enginuitorWould it be easier just to delete it and "in" a new one?
18:01.02brlcadif your EDITOR environment var was set correctly, you can issue the ted command on a solid to text edit a solid's parameters as well
18:03.30brlcadif you just created the object, it is often easier to kill and in again -- you don't have to use 'in' interactively, up arrow will show the full sequence
18:04.09enginuitorok
18:04.18enginuitorHow do I display a shape's dimensions?
18:04.23brlcadl object
18:05.10enginuitorthanks
18:05.42brlcadfwiw, since you are interested in command-line commands, there are equivalent 'apply'/'accept'/'reject' commands for solid or object edit mode
18:05.58enginuitorok
18:06.37enginuitorHow do I draw all?
18:06.45enginuitor...as opposed to typing a specific object name
18:08.09brlcader, what do you mean by "draw all"?
18:08.38enginuitorBasically, I want to achieve the same effect as typing "draw ____" for each region in the database
18:08.46enginuitorAm I not thinking right? :)
18:08.59brlcadyou can use globbing, but for drawing "everything" that is rarely never what you want for real models
18:09.04enginuitorOK
18:09.08brlcadat least once you have more than a few combinations
18:09.13enginuitorWell, I've got to go drive someone somewhere
18:09.16enginuitorThanks for your help!
18:09.28brlcadnaming conventions on your region
18:09.35brlcadso you can 'e *.r'
18:10.17brlcadcheers
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19:14.08pra5adack mom is trying to set me up with a girl ...
19:14.18pra5addamn my ethnicity
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19:19.02brlcadwoot, snow
19:20.28pra5adnot fun
19:20.34pra5adwasted weekend
19:21.11pra5adhow was the ubuntu live cd?
19:26.56brlcaddidn't have what I needed
19:27.04brlcadpretty splash screen though
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19:50.13docelichi PrezKennedy
19:50.28PrezKennedyhi
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23:16.49pra5adweak snow
Jeff Waugh - find it at freshmeat.net! Modified by Tim Riker to work with blootbot logs, split per channel, etc. irclog2html for #brlcad on 20060212

irclog2html for #brlcad on 20060212

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15:57.28boemannhi there
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16:48.13learnerhowdy boemann
17:05.18boemannhi learner
17:06.14boemannI have scanned irc logs and I understand brl-cad has support for nurb primitives
17:06.17boemanncool
17:06.52boemannmaybe I should give brl-cad a testdrive
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21:10.46``Erikheh
Jeff Waugh - find it at freshmeat.net! Modified by Tim Riker to work with blootbot logs, split per channel, etc. irclog2html for #brlcad on 20060213

irclog2html for #brlcad on 20060213

01:16.00pra5adwhoa trader joes has papadums
01:16.02pra5adwerd
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04:17.12brlcad3heh
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Jeff Waugh - find it at freshmeat.net! Modified by Tim Riker to work with blootbot logs, split per channel, etc. irclog2html for #brlcad on 20060214

irclog2html for #brlcad on 20060214

01:55.21Twingygrizzly nailer is much better *grunt*
02:56.02TwingyLive is horribly gay band
02:56.24Twingythey should change their name to Xandir
02:56.43Twingyor.. Live action squirrel with big balls
03:08.15brlcadheh
04:07.31*** join/#brlcad mahesh (n=mahesh@12-217-229-38.client.mchsi.com)
04:08.11maheshSean, had a question for you
04:15.35brlcadmahesh: fire away
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04:50.32maheshSean, you there?
04:52.16brlcadstill here :)
04:53.23maheshoh there you are
04:54.00maheshhad a question for you
04:54.16brlcadi'm always here in some form or another, best to just ask whatever question regardless :)  i'll answer when you/I return
04:54.29maheshok
04:55.45maheshthe remote nodes after raytracing, return the application structure to the master node
04:56.03maheshi am trying to do a view_pixel on that application structure
04:56.25maheshbut it is not showing up on the framebuffer
04:57.01maheshi want to know, if the remote nodes have actually done the work (raytrace)
04:57.16maheshis there a way to find out from any of the fields in that structure?
04:57.26brlcada_color should be set
04:57.29maheshlike a_color or something?
04:57.57maheshwhat could be the values of a_color[]?
04:58.30brlcad1/1/1 if it "missed", something else otherwise
04:59.34maheshok....lemme print and check
05:02.13brlcadmight be useful to raytrace a tiny picture like -s2 so you can test individual values
05:03.05brlcadfi, right-clicking the framebuffer will report the pixel value
05:04.38maheshhmm...interesting. i am printing out individual values and they are all like 0.0000, 0.00000.0.39222
05:05.08maheshcorrection 0.00000, 0.00000, 0.003922
05:05.53brlcader, they are chars for starters :)
05:06.00brlcadnot floats
05:06.19maheshoh i tried without -s2 option
05:07.54brlcadand I misspoke, 0/0/1 if it misses
05:08.05brlcadwhich is what that value looks like
05:08.23brlcads2 is just to set the image size to 2x2
05:08.29brlcadinstead of 512x512
05:08.53maheshso, there is definitely something wrong on the remote node end right?
05:09.24brlcadif it's not 0/0/1 on non-remote, then yeah :)
05:10.07maheshwell, i can see only half the image (that is work done by master node). The other half, the rmeote node should have done it
05:10.28brlcadshould be able to turn on the ray-debug flag and see what the remote node is doing
05:10.38brlcadhow are you setting up the application structure on the remote node?
05:12.24maheshall the nodes have access to .g file
05:12.31maheshall of them do rt_dirbuild
05:12.53maheshthen, only master does view_init
05:13.21brlcadthey have access over nfs or you manually copy it?
05:13.35brlcador program sends it maybe?
05:13.47maheshas of now, i am simulating multiple nodes on single machine
05:13.56brlcadgotya
05:14.45maheshthen all of them call do_frame and inturn call do_run
05:15.31brlcadhmm
05:15.37maheshthere i call bu_distributed which is the function where nodes get chunks of pixels
05:15.58brlcadheh, cool
05:16.06maheshand then they call mpi_worker
05:16.09maheshsimilar to worker
05:16.30maheshmaster node calls do_pixel
05:16.37maheshother nodes return ap structure to master
05:17.05maheshand master calls do_pixel on the received ap
05:17.19maheshdoes it all make sense?
05:17.25brlcadyeah, i think so
05:18.59brlcadhow are you managing the cpu resource structures?
05:19.22maheshhmm....haven't touched them at all
05:19.29brlcade.g. do_pixel() obtains the application structure from resource[cpu]
05:20.06brlcadso you would have had to copy it into resource[cpu] before do_pixel at least.. maybe earlier
05:20.27brlcadthat would explain the black pixel "misses"
05:21.32maheshremote node calls the same do_pixel function
05:21.44maheshso is it not take care of
05:21.48maheshmay be i am missing something here
05:23.03brlcadas the rays are fired, the application structure is set with the details of each ray being fired
05:23.31brlcadthat's what a_ray is in the structure
05:24.56brlcadso when it fires a run of pixels in do_run(), it ends up calling worker()
05:25.11maheshright
05:25.18brlcadworker is like do_pixel(), it assumes that the application structure was stashed into resource[cpu]
05:25.26brlcadso that it knows where to shoot the ray
05:25.33maheshoh i see
05:25.42brlcadit sounds like your remote nodes are actually shooting a ray successfully
05:25.55brlcadthey are just shooting at "nothing" since they were never told in which direction
05:26.03maheshoh i get it
05:27.14maheshany clue what field needs to be fixed in my case?
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05:27.21brlcadfor each pixel, a_ray is updated with the new ray direction and worker() does it's magic (calling do_pixel())
05:27.54brlcadyou said you have master calling view_init()?
05:28.01maheshyeah
05:28.16brlcadwhat do the remote nodes do? how do they start up?
05:29.15maheshat the end of do_pixel, master node does a view_pixel where as other nodes return application structure
05:29.39brlcadthat's what the master does.. what do the remote ones do? :)
05:29.40maheshin worker function, i store all these ap structures
05:30.05maheshremote nodes return ap structure to worker function
05:30.16maheshworker function stores them all in an array
05:30.58maheshonce worker function is complete, the remote node send the array of ap structures back to master
05:31.51brlcadheh, back up
05:32.03brlcadto the beginning.. before they return their ap structure
05:32.10maheshok
05:32.13brlcadwhat do they do from the beginning?
05:32.41maheshshall i send you the worker.c file?
05:33.06brlcadeventually, but right now, just the general overview :)
05:33.21maheshi thought we could both go over
05:33.27pra5admy back..
05:33.28brlcadok
05:34.42maheshsent
05:35.21brlcadin general, I believe what you're going to want to do with what you have is to have the master node send his application structure to the remote nodes (or maybe even just resource[cpu] where "cpu" is each remote node..not sure if that'll work) or maybe just the ray info
05:35.44brlcadand each remote node will take that ap structure or ray info and shoot the ray(s)
05:36.24maheshhmm
05:36.36brlcadgot it
05:37.16maheshi can start from do_run or ?
05:40.45brlcaddepends
05:40.52brlcadis this a single-processor machine?
05:40.57maheshyeah
05:41.23brlcadand brl-cad was compiled non-parallel presumably..
05:41.39brlcadi.e. your bu_distributed() in do_run() is actually getting called
05:41.47maheshyeah
05:45.28brlcadsee in do_pixel() where it calls rt_shootray(a)?
05:45.51brlcadthat's where it fires the actual ray, passing the application structure that presumably was already filled in with the ray details
05:46.14brlcaddo_pixel() presumes that resource[cpu] was already set to your application structure
05:47.26brlcadheh, yikes: struct application app[300000];
05:47.49maheshi know it is ugly :)
05:48.11maheshi just wanted to get all of them working....so...
05:48.45maheshso, you think resource[cpu] is not filled?
05:49.00brlcadnot, positive
05:49.11brlcadactually, could simply be that application is never initialized
05:49.18brlcadi don't see that anywhere
05:49.50brlcadwhen rt starts, there is a global application structure that it uses/initializes
05:49.58brlcadthe parent/master node initialized it
05:49.59maheshright
05:50.14brlcadthe parent needs to get that ap to the client to set his global
05:50.29maheshwhere does the master initialize it?
05:51.03brlcadit's continually initialized as the raytrace proceeds
05:51.47brlcadif anything, should wait until after grid_setup() as that does initialize the ap structure
05:51.58brlcadwhich is in do_pixel ..
05:52.11brlcadso before bu_distributed, or inside bu_distributed
05:53.02brlcadyeah.. inside bu_distributed
05:53.19brlcadmaster should set ap to client, client should set his ap to what master sent
05:53.55maheshbefore mpi_worker is called right?
05:55.22brlcadmaster sends before mpi_worker(), non-master sends ap structure back
05:55.36brlcadnot just a_color (which would be have been ap.a_color, btw)
05:55.45maheshgot it
05:56.17maheshbut how about resource[cpu]?
05:56.48brlcadforget about it for now :)
05:56.49Guu`I've never heard of about it for now :), brlcad!
05:57.00brlcadyou might even get it for free
05:57.35brlcadthat makes sense now
05:58.24brlcadthe local master has the ap structure, so his rt_shootray() is using the initialized one.. the remote nodes, however, are not so it's using them uninitialized and missing
05:59.05brlcadyou're making great progress! :)
05:59.19maheshmaking fun of me :)
05:59.26brlcadno seriously
05:59.28brlcadit's great
05:59.46maheshthanks!
05:59.54brlcadyou've had other stuff going on, i'm sure too
06:00.02maheshyeah
06:00.14brlcadawesome to see code for it, and it's making sense so far
06:01.20maheshonce i see a full image on the screen, i will start playing with some ideas i have
06:01.41brlcadhave you modified other files?
06:01.42maheshhopefully, the code will be much more clean and robust
06:01.45maheshyeah
06:02.18maheshfunctions in view.c are called only my master
06:02.23maheshi have changed that
06:02.35maheshand small changes in do.c
06:02.56maheshi think those are the only files i have changed (plus ofcourse main.c)
06:33.04brlcadwell, i'm excited to hear that you've gotten it to render - keep an eye on transferring the ap structure
06:33.07brlcadyou can "set" it once it's sent mby simply performing a struct copy
06:33.26brlcador there are examples throughout the code that do the struct copy too, it's a one-liner
06:34.40brlcadalas, for now, I must zzz.. haven't in over 24 hours
06:36.30maheshsure
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11:23.18boemannhi
11:23.34boemannwhat kind of widget toolkit does brlcad use?
11:25.02boemannand does a .deb exist?
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12:00.50``Eriklibtk and not that I've seen
12:09.02boemannok thanks
12:11.48``Eriktho someone was talking about making a deb not too long ago
12:12.16boemannit is listed as being worked on for the last 365 days :(
12:17.07boemannwhat is the shape of the code - i mean does it show it's age - is it object oriented?
12:17.56boemannmainly regarding rt and db
12:19.46``Erikuh, it's C, rt is well encapsulated and kept up to date, and I kinda think it's better than most OO stuff
12:20.21``Erikancient cruft is culled on occasion, like all the k&r style is gone in favor of ansi style... o.O
12:20.33boemannwell C doesn't mean it can't be OO ;)
12:20.56boemannin design that is
12:20.59``Eriktrue, but then you leave the world of tightly defined oo, since C affords you far more flexability
12:21.19``Erikthe core of librt, as far as I understand, is a big honkin' struct with a couple callbacks in it
12:21.37boemannok
12:22.03boemannhow about opengl accel of the editor
12:22.07``Erikbut I have only a passing knowledge of those things... most of my involvement was rewriting the build system to use automake, so 99% of my job was 'does it compile?'
12:22.19boemann:)
12:22.43``Erikyeah, it has that ability, provided the appropriate display manager is used and the X you're using has ogl all ready to go
12:22.58boemanngood
12:22.59``Erikheh, it might even still support irisgl, too :D
12:23.12boemann:)
12:23.31boemanni did some iris gl once
12:25.52boemannI'm considering joining in - though I'm not sure I wouldn't rather start from scratch with C++
12:26.39boemannperhaps only make a C++ wrapper for the brl core
12:26.53boemannand then make my own editor
12:28.33boemanndoes brl support concurrent development from different workstations?
12:29.09boemannnot development but work
12:33.52``Erikum, multiple participants having the .g file open, you mean?
12:34.48``ErikI BELIEVE the current technique for having several people working on the same model at the same time involves having the model broken into several pieces, the people work on their own piece, then they glue the pieces together at the end into the final output file
12:35.03``Erikbut I could be way off base with that, best to talk to brlcad when he wakes up
12:40.18boemannwhere do the majority of developers live?
12:40.51``Erikuhm, maryland, usa, I'd imagine
12:41.05``Erikbut there are listed developers and many contributors all over the world o.O
12:41.22``Erikiirc, there's been a recent surge of activity from someone in italy o.O
12:42.10``Erikbut I think most developers work for arl, formerly known as brl... :)
12:43.11boemannso there is real work going on
12:43.33``Erikyeah
12:43.38``Erikwell
12:43.49``Eriksean is supposed to be working on it... (he goes by brlcad here...)
12:44.02boemannnice to know - i don't want to involve myself in something dead
12:44.21``Eriklee does stuff on occasion, and when I get the excuse/time, I make some fixes for the bsd's
12:45.25``ErikI have to go to work, I'll be back in an hour if you have more questions... later :)
12:45.37boemannok bye
12:45.44boemanni wont be here
12:46.14boemannthanks for all the help
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18:01.35CIA-5BRL-CAD: 03bob1961 * 10brlcad/src/tclscripts/swidgets/scripts/tree.itk: Check-in for Doug Howard. Added a -sortmode option.
18:02.12clock_brlcad: hi, I learnt riding buttonlift today :)
18:19.20brlcad~buttonlift
18:19.46brlcadah, heh, neat
18:26.42``Erikskiing?
18:47.22clock_``Erik: snowboarding
18:47.38clock_brlcad: I completed it 11 times! :)
18:50.29clock_brlcad: are you going bodybuilding?
18:50.57brlcadworking on it
18:51.05brlcadcompetition in a couple weeks
18:51.47clock_brlcad: eee? Can I see your pictures?
18:51.56brlcadheh, I don't have any pics
18:52.25clock_brlcad: what kind of competition?
18:52.26brlcadi'd need to trim down some more for pics
18:52.35brlcadlifting competition, bench
18:52.54clock_brlcad: hey this is interesting. Those projects whose authors do sports tend to not have problems understanding their users
18:53.20brlcadheh
18:53.39clock_like OpenBSD is cool they have good user manual, funny cartoons, first fixing bugs and only then doing features, caring about security, and Theo de Raadt is said to be always in the mountains :)
18:54.02clock_brlcad: is it possible that iron turns into wood because of cosmic rays bombarding the atomic kernels inside?
18:54.06``Eriktheo's also a major asshole :D but on occasion, he's not TOTALLY full of shit...
18:54.11``Erikat least, that's what I've heard
18:54.40brlcadi'm going to have to trim back on the lifting though, going to join the rowing team
18:54.51clock_brlcad: I started with iron dumbell 10kg and it started feeling like wooden so I had to add some plates so now it reads 12.5kg but soon I got the same syndrome again
18:54.59``Erikwhat rowing team?
18:55.06clock_``Erik: what does major asshole mean?
18:55.09brlcadbaltimore has a team
18:55.21``Erikfunky
18:55.28clock_actually what does asshole mean? I know it's the hole into the rectum but can't imagine which personality traits it's supposed to imply.
18:55.41``Erikclock: an unpleasant person...
18:55.51brlcadclock_: what's your native language? :)
18:55.58clock_brlcad: czech
18:56.05clock_hehe :)
18:56.16clock_brlcad: is it national competition where youre going?
18:56.35``Eriktranslation table? o.O
18:56.46brlcadclock_: maybe that he's a "hovnohlava"? :)
18:57.15brlcadusually implies a bit of pretencious impatience
18:57.50brlcad``Erik: multilingual swear list filtering system I wrote for bz has several dozen languages, swears and insults out the wazoo
18:58.15clock_brlcad: hovnohlava doesn't mean anything in czech
18:58.48clock_brlcad: we say "prijemnej jak osina v prdeli" - as pleasant as an wan in the ass
18:58.53clock_wan -> awn
18:59.20brlcadclock_: maybe you could update my czech section then :)
18:59.24brlcadhttp://cvs.sourceforge.net/viewcvs.py/bzflag/bzflag/misc/multilingualSwearList.txt?rev=HEAD
18:59.37``Erikwhat about "pretentious arrogant bastard"?
18:59.50clock_``Erik: pretentious means that he's pretending things?
18:59.59brlcadcan fill it in with whatever swear words you can think of :)  .. but has to be not just rude but blatently insulting
19:00.36``Erikhttp://m-w.com/dictionary/pretentious
19:00.41clock_brlcad: what kind of competition are you engaging in? Are you a serious bodybuilder?
19:00.55clock_brlcad: trim down == make the muscles more cut?
19:01.03``Erikhttp://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=asshole
19:01.39clock_pretentive impatient unpleasant person that's exactly me :)
19:01.41``Erikhehehe, #2 :D do you know a jenna tools, sean?
19:02.06clock_No, I won't update the filtering list, because that way I would work against myself ;-)
19:02.25clock_but I am getting better in getting rid of these personality traits
19:02.48clock_and I am erasing them in the brain and filling the gained space with skills like snowboarding and skateboarding ;-)
19:03.17``Erikand running into trees and rocks and stuff are helping to knock them clean out of your skull? ;) *duck*
19:03.46clock_``Erik: I smashed my head once when they didn't have a helmet available in the renting - after that I bought my own helmet :)
19:03.47``Erikadolph hitler is a swear?
19:04.15clock_``Erik: adolph hilter isn't anymore, he's dead
19:04.23``Erik"bigbooty"? ... O.o
19:04.43``Erikhey, what's wrong with buttface?
19:04.44``Erikhehehe
19:04.46clock_``Erik: hey I saw shaun white
19:05.24clock_``Erik: what are you doing there in the USA so that you have so cute snowboarders?
19:05.41``Erikthey drink milk
19:05.48``Erikit does a body good o.O
19:06.41``Eriklet us know how those tits fill out.
19:06.57brlcadjenna tools?
19:06.59brlcadnope
19:07.31brlcadclock_: trim down means get rid of some of my fat ;)
19:08.10clock_brlcad: some news on brlcad? An integrated "warhead" command with syntax warhead <x> <y> <z> <yield> <length> that makes nuclear warhead design macro?
19:08.19brlcadclock_: aww, updating that list could be your contribution to the "clean" servers that try to impose their morality on other players :)
19:08.33brlcadthat'd be just a few lines of tcl :)
19:09.09clock_brlcad: how are you trimming down? Eating lots of little meals?
19:09.26brlcaddrinking less beer
19:09.32clock_hehe :)
19:09.38brlcad:)
19:09.45clock_so it is probably not a world bodybuilding championship :)
19:09.49brlcadthough today was a regression
19:10.05brlcadnah, not a major event, local event
19:10.15brlcadhave to start somewhere
19:11.14brlcad``Erik: surprisingly enough, that name is often more inciteful than most swears on some game servers
19:11.36brlcadsome of the words in the massive english section could be removed
19:12.02brlcadthe list was compiled from lots of sources and cleaned up
19:12.54``Erikamusing reading :)
20:23.41CIA-5BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/mged/titles.c: mild sanity check, even if the directory pointer is valid, make sure the name is too before printfing
20:24.32clock_"mild sanity" that's a beautiful term ;-)
20:28.48CIA-5BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/mged/ged.c: don't attempt to call do_titles() with an overlay_vls that hasn't been initialized. this 'also' fixes sf bug 1326045 that was fixed by another edit as well
20:30.40brlcadheh
20:31.02clock_bug 1326045?
20:31.25brlcadyes?
20:31.32brlcadsf bug tracker ids
20:31.48clock_if the price of brlcad was increased 1 dollar for every bug fixed then I am already a millionaire! :)
20:31.49brlcadyour bug submission :)
20:32.31clock_brlcad: my muscles get bigger from lifting weight, cannot this indicate some disease? :)
20:34.13brlcada healty disease ;)
20:34.53clock_brlcad: lifting weights and then going in front of a mirror is the cheapest way to get gay porn :)
20:35.41brlcadheh, I've never quite heard it put that way before
20:35.49brlcadself-indulgence
20:35.51clock_or like the one with a god:
20:36.04clock_can a bodybuilder's biceps grow so big that he cannot carry it anymore?
20:36.24brlcadprobably :)
20:37.11clock_brlcad: on Sunday I exceeded the critical mass of sport from which there is no return back ;-)
20:37.51clock_brlcad: it's like a drug when I don't feel delayed onset muscle soreness my hands shake and I am nervous and I have to go doing some sport
20:38.48brlcadhow about this: http://www.t-nation.com/findArticle.do?article=211hate
20:41.02clock_brlcad: what's synthol? car brake fluid?
20:42.52brlcadsteroid, i think
20:47.55``Erikhah
20:48.26clock_brlcad: that's 100% great :)
20:50.19``Erik"posing oil" o.O
20:50.57``Eriknasty, it's an oil compound that settles between muscle fibers, increasing size (but not strength)
20:58.49clock_brlcad: are you bodybuilding to attract women or do you already have a wife?
20:59.30clock_I wonder how the guy can bend his arms despite those basketballs
20:59.40clock_it's like boobs on the wrong place
21:00.47brlcadclock_: I just workout to feel good, I enjoy it
21:04.43clock_brlcad = mental workout ;-)
21:04.49clock_brlcad: does your brain gain inches? :)
21:06.49brlcadi read research papers in my spare time, but I think my head leaks .. can't remember ;)
21:11.25``Erikyou have spare time? how'd you pull that one off?
21:13.46brlcadduring commercials between episodes of stargate and bsg
21:14.57``Erikheh
21:22.03clock_brlcad: put your muscle photo on brlcad page with label "these muscles are very solidly modelled"
21:24.30brlcadheh
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23:54.20``Erikhrm
Jeff Waugh - find it at freshmeat.net! Modified by Tim Riker to work with blootbot logs, split per channel, etc. irclog2html for #brlcad on 20060215

irclog2html for #brlcad on 20060215

00:55.54Twingyindeed
01:29.47``Erikhah
01:30.07``Erikdaily show is showing 60's hunting safety videos as a moment of zen... celebrating cheneys recent ... incident.
03:10.28pra5adheh
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21:47.25whitehawkhi
21:48.01docelichi
21:48.12whitehawkI just found brlca, tried to compile it..
21:48.27whitehawkIn file included from jove_buf.c:64:
21:48.28whitehawk./jove.h:256: warning: built-in function 'exp' declared as non-function
21:48.28whitehawk./jove.h:477: error: conflicting types for 'malloc'
21:48.30whitehawkgot this..
21:49.19whitehawkand then after some all-recursive notes compiling failed
21:49.46docelicok the first thing is a warning so it doesn't matter
21:50.12whitehawkyes I know
21:50.34docelicthe malloc thing is an error. You need to look up how is malloc declaration line in jove.h, line 477, different from malloc definition in your /usr/include/malloc.h
21:51.48docelic(Not that I use brlcad, but this is generic troubleshooting method).
21:52.09whitehawkthis is in jove.h: *malloc(),
21:52.52docelicwhat platform and compiler ?
21:54.27whitehawklinux  gcc-3.4.5, glibc-2.3.6-r2, 2.6.14-ck6-2 x86_64
21:54.35docelicIf I got the context right, try replacing  *malloc()  to be  *malloc(size_t)
21:56.07whitehawknpoe
21:56.33whitehawknope
21:56.38doceliccan you give me 2 lines before and after 477 ?
21:57.26whitehawk<PROTECTED>
21:57.26whitehawk<PROTECTED>
21:57.26whitehawk<PROTECTED>
21:57.26whitehawk<PROTECTED>
21:57.26whitehawk<PROTECTED>
21:57.43docelicah, yeah, that wasn't it then..
21:58.19docelicdoes it tell you where is the previous definition of malloc that conflicts ?
22:08.28brlcadhowdy
22:08.38brlcadwhitehawk: that was fixed in the latest cvs
22:10.42brlcadthe fix is easy, just remove the malloc line there
22:11.01brlcador disable jove, you don't need it if you've never used it
22:12.02docelicah, hi brlcad :)
22:13.49brlcaddocelic: you had the right fix, but it needed to return void* too ;)
22:14.12brlcadi believe the old jove code is using the old char* return format
22:17.52CIA-5BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/TODO: geometry viewing commands/visualizations of exploded levels. mulled over this years ago, but davisson revitalized some interest/discussion.
22:21.07whitehawkbrlcad what is jove? I'm totally new to brl cad
22:21.30brlcadit's a streamlined version of emacs, for back in the day when not every machine had an editor installed
22:21.39brlcad"jonathan's own version of emacs"
22:22.10docelicYeah. It's also available as a standalone package in your distribution, so you can disable it
22:22.48whitehawkwhat is the prodesktop plugin?
22:23.08brlcadit's in the src/other directory, which is filled with optional stuff that is just provided for provenience
22:23.40brlcadi presume you mean the protoolkit pro-engineer plugin
22:23.49brlcadit's a plugin for pro/e
22:24.06brlcadlets you export directly to brl-cad format from inside of pro-engineer
22:24.53whitehawkcan I import from proe inside of brlcad?
22:25.56brlcadproe is a closed proprietary format
22:26.20brlcadwe'd have to pay 10k seat or somesuch and only distribute binaries
22:26.26brlcadnot very practical
22:26.46brlcadthere are a variety of formats that you can export from within proe that brl-cad will read
22:26.58brlcadlike stl, vrml, iges, ..
22:27.30whitehawkiges as I remember we used that in cosmos geostar
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22:33.02brlcadhowdy fotter
22:33.12fotterhi there
22:33.55fotteri wonder if anyone can help (i'm also new to irc as well...) as i'm having a problem with rt...
22:34.19brlcadno problem, someone usually can ;)
22:35.11fottersorry to dive straight in :-)
22:35.26brlcadthat's the irc way ;)
22:35.50fotteri'm in the raytrace control panel, and when i hit 'fbclear' i get an error:
22:35.56brlcadjust often won't get an immediate answer, have to hang around until someone is available to respond
22:36.23fotterRt Error: couldn't execute "fbclear": invalid argument
22:36.39brlcadhmm
22:36.40fotterah ok, no probs, just happy whenever!
22:36.50fottergoogled etc, but couldn't find anything
22:37.09brlcad1) what version are you running and 2) did you set your path?
22:37.33fotter2) yes, my execute path includes /usr/brlcad/bin
22:38.07brlcadls -la /usr/brlcad/bin/fbclear
22:38.32fotter-rwxr-xr-x  1 root root 14973 2006-02-15 17:48 /usr/brlcad/bin/fbclear
22:38.43brlcadlooks good
22:38.50brlcad/usr/brlcad/bin/fbclear -F/dev/X
22:38.57brlcadshould flash a window
22:39.02fotterit did
22:39.34brlcadso then.. 1)?
22:39.45fotter1) i downloaded the latest version today and compiled, 7.6.6
22:40.45fotteron ubuntu 5.10
22:41.01brlcaddid you raytrace first?
22:41.04fotteryes
22:41.09fotteri have a nice sphere :-)
22:41.18brlcadtype fbclear into the command window
22:42.07fotterError: invalid command name "fbclear"
22:43.29brlcadhmm
22:43.50fotterother commands work from the command window - i created the sphere from there, and typing 'rt' in the command window also works
22:43.50brlcader, do_fbclear id_0
22:44.13brlcadsame error?
22:44.35fotterah right, yes, it gives Rt Error: couldn't execute "fbclear": invalid argument
22:44.46brlcadmkay
22:44.50brlcadputs $env(PATH)
22:46.10brlcad(in the command window)
22:47.19fotterError: can't read "env(PATH)": no such variable
22:47.56brlcadaha
22:48.35fotterTcl is something i know nothing about - shed some light please!
22:48.37brlcadset env(PATH) /usr/bin:/bin:/usr/sbin:/sbin:/usr/X11R6/bin:/usr/brlcad/bin
22:48.48brlcadtry that, then click fbclear again
22:49.40fotterthank you!!
22:49.52brlcadwell, that's only a half-fix then :)
22:49.57brlcadthat fixed it for this run of mged
22:50.10brlcadthe path isn't getting set correctly
22:50.23brlcadin the tcl interpreter
22:50.50brlcadwhich is a relatively recent change .. ubuntu seems to be the one that hits this problem
22:50.51fotterah ok cool. understood.
22:51.18brlcadif you want to change sources so that it works, since you compiled ..
22:51.25fotterno probs
22:51.29brlcadyou can edit src/mged/setup.c and search for
22:51.38brlcadHAVE_GETENV
22:52.04fotteram there
22:52.05brlcadthere's a line a few lines after with a "{", make that "if (0) {" and recompile and you should be golden
22:52.27fotterso replace binpath with 0
22:52.35brlcadno
22:52.46fotterright, ok. in wrong place maybe
22:52.51brlcadup a few more lines
22:53.02brlcadright after the comment
22:53.56brlcad<PROTECTED>
22:53.59brlcad<PROTECTED>
22:54.02brlcad<PROTECTED>
22:54.05brlcad<PROTECTED>
22:54.05brlcadthat "{"
22:54.22fotterah
22:54.23fotterok
22:54.25brlcadchange to be: if (0) {
22:54.31fotterright got you
22:54.34brlcadbasically disabling that section
22:55.12brlcadthat's a convenience for the plethora that don't seem to know how to set their path
22:55.35brlcadyet there's some peculiar tcl book keeping that isn't getting updated correctly
22:56.29brlcaddid you get a message when you run mged saying "unable to modify PATH" by chance?
22:57.01fotterbefore correcting the error? haven't recompiled yet, so will check
22:57.37fotterno errors written to the terminal, just the 'Initializing and backgrounding, please wait...Done'
22:57.49fotterand then up pops mged
22:57.56brlcadmkay
23:02.28fotterif there are any other checks/help i can give i'm more than happy... just finishing compiling the new mged :-)
23:02.52fotterso probably not the best time for help if i now have a working version though...
23:03.30brlcadoh, there is lots, I'd love to trace down why PATH doesn't get set ;)
23:04.05brlcadmake sure that works first, though :)
23:06.49``ErikO.o
23:06.50fotterwill do :-) just typed 'make install', although i guess i could have just copied across the mged binary?
23:07.03fotterbut anyway, it works perfectly. thank you!
23:07.11brlcadgood to know
23:07.15brlcadcare to try one more edit?
23:07.21fotterno probs
23:07.35brlcadchange that same line to if (1) {
23:08.10brlcadand add this right before the "#  ifdef HAVE_PUTENV" line below
23:08.34fotterok
23:08.34brlcad<PROTECTED>
23:08.34brlcad<PROTECTED>
23:08.35brlcad<PROTECTED>
23:08.53brlcadthose three lines right before the HAVE_PUTENV line
23:09.15brlcadthen if you compile and make install, it should report two lines when you run mged.. and hopefully still work
23:09.17fotterok they're in
23:10.12fotterjust waiting for it to compile
23:16.00fotterOLD_PATH = /usr/local/bin:/usr/local/sbin:/sbin:/usr/sbin:/bin:/usr/bin:/usr/bin/X11:/usr/games:/usr/brlcad/bin
23:16.00fotterNEW_PATH = PATH=/usr/local/bin:/usr/local/sbin:/sbin:/usr/sbin:/bin:/usr/bin:/usr/bin/X11:/usr/games:/usr/brlcad/bin:/usr/brlcad/bin
23:16.17brlcadwoah
23:16.27fotterbut it has failed to load...
23:17.03brlcadfailed to load?
23:17.26fotterit's just written 'Detached' to the terminal and quit, given the terminal back to me
23:18.56brlcadrun mged with the -c option
23:19.30fotter<PROTECTED>
23:19.30fotterBRL-CAD Release 7.6.6   Geometry Editor (MGED)
23:19.31fotter<PROTECTED>
23:19.31fotter<PROTECTED>
23:19.34fotterthe paths above
23:19.37fotterand then
23:19.41fotterSegmentation fault
23:20.14brlcada segfault?.. hrmph
23:20.26brlcadgdb --args mged -c
23:20.38fotterok
23:20.41brlcadrun
23:20.53fotterProgram received signal SIGSEGV, Segmentation fault.
23:20.53fotter[Switching to Thread -1218259264 (LWP 16628)]
23:20.53fotter0xb794fee7 in Tcl_ExternalToUtfDString (encoding=0x0,
23:20.53fotter<PROTECTED>
23:20.53fotter<PROTECTED>
23:20.55fotter811             srcLen = (*encodingPtr->lengthProc)(src);
23:21.04brlcadtype: bt
23:21.13fotter#0  0xb794fee7 in Tcl_ExternalToUtfDString (encoding=0x0,
23:21.14fotter<PROTECTED>
23:21.14fotter<PROTECTED>
23:21.14fotter#1  0xb7952b51 in Tcl_PutEnv (
23:21.14fotter<PROTECTED>
23:21.18fotter<PROTECTED>
23:21.18fotter#2  0x0810bcb0 in mged_setup () at setup.c:85
23:21.20fotter#3  0x080e1b4a in main (argc=1, argv=0xbfd46c48) at ged.c:513
23:23.23brlcadah
23:25.09fotterok... (over my head)
23:25.50brlcadcan't make that Tcl call without an interpreter, which hasn't been created/initialized yet
23:26.57brlcadhttp://ftp.brlcad.org/tmp/setup.c
23:27.09brlcadsave that file in src/mged
23:27.18brlcadcurl -O http://ftp.brlcad.org/tmp/setup.c
23:27.31fotterok
23:28.46fotterand compile...?
23:28.56brlcadyeah
23:34.09brlcadhow goes it?
23:35.08fotterjust installed... am about to run
23:35.32fottercan't read "env(PATH)": no such variable
23:35.32fotterMGED Aborted.
23:35.53brlcadpicked
23:36.14brlcadalright, I'll have to dig deeper into what Tcl is doing
23:36.25brlcadthanks anyways for your help
23:36.41brlcadoh, which Tcl are you using?
23:36.48brlcadldd /usr/brlcad/bin/mged
23:37.08fotterldd /usr/brlcad/bin/mged
23:37.08fotter<PROTECTED>
23:37.08fotter<PROTECTED>
23:37.08fotter<PROTECTED>
23:37.08fotter<PROTECTED>
23:37.08fotter<PROTECTED>
23:37.10fotter<PROTECTED>
23:37.12fotter<PROTECTED>
23:37.15fotter<PROTECTED>
23:37.16fotter<PROTECTED>
23:37.18fotter<PROTECTED>
23:37.20fotter<PROTECTED>
23:37.22fotter<PROTECTED>
23:37.24fotter<PROTECTED>
23:37.26fotter<PROTECTED>
23:37.30fotter<PROTECTED>
23:37.32fotter<PROTECTED>
23:37.34fotter<PROTECTED>
23:37.38fotter<PROTECTED>
23:37.40brlcadit is at least the right tcl
23:37.40fotter<PROTECTED>
23:37.42fotter<PROTECTED>
23:37.44fotter<PROTECTED>
23:37.46fotter<PROTECTED>
23:37.48fotter<PROTECTED>
23:37.50fotter<PROTECTED>
23:37.52fotter<PROTECTED>
23:37.54fotter<PROTECTED>
23:37.56fotter<PROTECTED>
23:37.58fotter<PROTECTED>
23:38.00fotter<PROTECTED>
23:38.02fotter<PROTECTED>
23:38.04fotter<PROTECTED>
23:38.20brlcadso yeah. thanks for your help :)
23:38.22fotterok, well if i'm around i'm more than happy to try and help... and from what i've seen of brl-cad so far i'm going to find it pretty useful
23:38.40brlcadyou did find the manual tutorial series on the website I presume?
23:38.46fotteryes
23:39.09brlcadif you change that block back to an if (0) { you should be back to working
23:39.17fotterso, i guess i would have hit other commands that wouldn't have worked? but fbclear comes first in the tutorial...
23:39.19fotterok cheers
23:39.20brlcadit's lower in the file
23:39.43brlcadyou wouldn't have hit many other commands that rely on the path
23:39.49brlcadslowly been decoupling from the path
23:39.50fotterah ok
23:39.58brlcadnirt might also have been a problem
23:40.05brlcadother than that, I don't know of another
23:40.18brlcadall the raytracers should be good
23:40.56fotteryes typing 'rt' into the command window worked just fine.
23:43.11fotterwell thanks. and as i said, if i'm around i'm more than happy to try things out if it helps - cheers!
23:43.25*** part/#brlcad fotter (n=fotter@135.241-7-195.ippool.ndo.com)
Jeff Waugh - find it at freshmeat.net! Modified by Tim Riker to work with blootbot logs, split per channel, etc. irclog2html for #brlcad on 20060216

irclog2html for #brlcad on 20060216

01:14.37``Erik*yawn*
01:17.36Twingyand now for your moment of zen
01:18.30brlcadhehehe
01:21.18Twingyyou know what
01:21.27Twingymy friend emily (21) knows as much about networking as mike
01:21.40Twingyshe doesn't have a CS degree either >_<
01:22.41brlcadI know at least a dozen people that don't have a CS degree that could do .. uhm, good work
01:22.54Twingyactually, she's 20
01:23.25Twingyshe had a good mentor though ^_^
01:23.36Twingy*whistle*
01:23.37brlcadyou mean she's damaged goods :)
01:23.44Twingybah
01:24.00Twingyharsh :)
01:24.05Twingyif you rate
01:24.08brlcadheh
01:24.14Twingythen what's mike
01:24.15Twingy:)
01:24.31brlcadmoleman comes to mind for some reason
01:24.37Twingyhah
01:27.57``ErikO.o
01:28.07``Erikain't she the crazy one that wanted to move in with you? o.O
01:29.25Twingyshe aint crazy, but yea, she might move here, eventually
01:29.34Twingywell, let me rephrase
01:29.55Twingyshe's not as crazy as me, if that says anything ^_^
01:30.04``Erikso she's fucking nuts
01:30.08Twingyhaha
01:30.18Twingyshe doesn't build rockets...
01:30.27Twingyyet o.O
01:30.41Twingyshe's more of the artsy type though
01:35.03``Erikmy paper got accepted
01:35.06``Eriknow I gotta write it :(
01:36.04``Erikdilbert is a riot
01:36.17Twingygonna bolt on a bug eater?
01:36.24``Erikand a triple deck wing
01:36.24``Erikyo
01:36.30Twingyblue barron!
01:36.37``Erikgonna take down the rear tray and pull the subs out
01:36.45Twingyrattling?
01:36.53``Erikyeah
01:37.02Twingygot any sticky foam pads?
01:37.05``Erikthe "bmw fix" was to shove a piece of foam in there
01:37.13``Erikthe diy fix is to secure it with a bolt
01:37.24TwingyI would use a sticky felt/foam pad
01:37.25``ErikI wanna pull it apart and see what's going on, I have a selection of bolts, and two pads of foam rubber
01:37.31Twingylike the kind you put on the bottom of chair legs
01:37.31``ErikI will un-rattle it. Damnit.
01:37.46TwingyI go through those things like mad
01:37.56``ErikI dont' have any self-adhesive foam, but I have heavy foam, and glue.
01:38.06Twingyyou don't want to glue it
01:38.27``Erikwhy not?
01:38.46Twingyjust messy
01:38.55``Eriktonights expedition is primarily investigative.
01:38.58Twingywhy kind of glue?
01:39.15``Erikslowzap or 5min epoxy
01:39.25TwingyI'd use "Gorilla Glue" since it expands as it drys and is as strong as epoxy
01:39.35``Erikum
01:39.39``Erik<-- has limited supplies handy
01:39.42TwingyI have some here if you want it
01:39.45Twingyits expensive
01:39.52``Eriklet me pull the deck down first
01:40.00``Erikone of the "fixes" is to shove 3 tennis balls in
01:40.05``Erikanother is to shove a tshirt in
01:40.07Twingygood luck :)
01:40.23``ErikI have an idea of the actual mechanism cuasing the issue, but I want to confirm
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03:54.02Twingyhrm, $400 trailer
04:42.44``Erikthere's one for $300 on, uh, powder mill road
04:43.02``Eriklooks like a cut-off of a military vehicle
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12:34.37clock_brlcad: hi
12:34.53brlcadhi
12:35.08clock_brlcad: I got an idea that it would be possible to make a snowboard for wheelchair users
12:35.36clock_brlcad: actually they could ride then like devils because they would have their centre of gravity low ;-)
12:36.16brlcadheh
12:36.54clock_brlcad: can you imagine the uproar when stephen hawking gets the gold and shaun white only silver? ;-)
12:36.57archivisti thinks its been done, saw something on telly some years ago
12:38.30archivistmethinks hawking would just fall into a black hole in the snow
12:38.32clock_when-i-did-this-1080-i-got-a-sudden-idea-of-new-possible-model-of-the-universe
12:40.32clock_or: this-machine-gave-me-the-american-voice-and-burton-gave-me-this-american-snowboard
13:53.00``Erikhm, I can't find the "stephen hawking extreme wheelchair" picture that was floating around on the 'net a bit ago... :/
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13:56.22clock_http://www.disabilitiesunlimited.org/Images/pro_wheelchair.jpg
14:04.08``Erikheh, yup, that's it... I was googling for 'extreme', silly me
14:06.19``Erikheh, yeah, that's it :D
14:10.57clock_stephen hawk extreme wheelchair competition ;-)
14:16.14clock_it's a pity that hawking has also his arms paralyzed, otherwise he could be a chick magnet like this one: http://www.teen-bodybuilding.com/site/coltwynn.htm
14:28.24``Erikheh
14:28.31``ErikI think my arms are like, four inches
14:28.32``Eriko.O
14:32.07clock_``Erik: 4 inches diameter or circumference?
14:33.54``Erikcircumference, heh (and I'm joking)
15:57.54clock_the guy with melons instead of biceps was really funny
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16:37.24whitehawkbye
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Jeff Waugh - find it at freshmeat.net! Modified by Tim Riker to work with blootbot logs, split per channel, etc. irclog2html for #brlcad on 20060217

irclog2html for #brlcad on 20060217

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02:36.36justin_hrm, my finger smells funny
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15:18.35brlcadhowdy cobbaut
15:18.50cobbauti
15:18.56brlcadnice plug, I was wondering the same ;)
15:18.58cobbauti mean hi
15:20.11cobbautyou mean the script...it helps me remember how i did stuff...
15:21.26cobbautthe 'source' command doesn't seem to be documented, i found it through the 'context help' in the mged GUI
15:23.46clock__hmm brlcad widows port...
15:24.03clock__brlcad: what does kick the tires mean?
15:25.09``Eriko.O
15:48.58brlcadcobbaut: actually I meant the /. comment itself ;)
15:49.14brlcadclock__: it means to test something, to try it
15:52.24brlcadit's a saying that comes from kicking the tires of an automobile as a means to see how sturdy/useful/reliable it is, etc
16:03.13cobbautbrlcad: ;-) ... it was too late to get noticed or modded anyway
16:15.57brlcadyeah, I didn't read it until it was off the mainpage
17:06.38``Erikkick the fires and light the tires, yo
17:06.39``Eriko.O
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22:53.21daggerrdoes anyone know of a tutorial for practical modeling with mged?
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23:06.29daggerranyone here that is not idling?
23:08.13pra5adhave u tried http://ftp.brlcad.org/VolumeII-Introduction_to_MGED.pdf ?
23:23.35daggerryes
23:24.11daggerrhave not done it all, the first half, then i've been reading the rest
23:24.38daggerrbut it does not seem to provide any means for efficient modeling, or perhaps im used to other means of modeling
23:25.26daggerrbut i'd like functions for "copy and translate", rotate and translate, and "snap to intersection" and stuff like that
23:26.34daggerrmodeling with arbitrary mositioning using the mouse is nothing that i like, and atleast i can not remember all the sizes of the objects in my models to calculate the exact positions
Jeff Waugh - find it at freshmeat.net! Modified by Tim Riker to work with blootbot logs, split per channel, etc. irclog2html for #brlcad on 20060218

irclog2html for #brlcad on 20060218

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00:49.29Twingywoot, my forge burner works great
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Jeff Waugh - find it at freshmeat.net! Modified by Tim Riker to work with blootbot logs, split per channel, etc. irclog2html for #brlcad on 20060219

irclog2html for #brlcad on 20060219

02:43.20*** join/#brlcad ibot (i=ibot@rikers.org)
02:43.20*** topic/#brlcad is http://brlcad.org/ || BRL-CAD is now Free Software! || BRL-CAD Windows port has been merged to HEAD, not yet stable yet || Archer is now on HEAD as well, kick the tires, report any bugs || there WILL be a 7.6.8 released ASAP for January after all
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03:41.28*** topic/#brlcad is http://brlcad.org/ || BRL-CAD is now Free Software! || BRL-CAD Windows port has been merged to HEAD, not yet stable yet || Archer is now on HEAD as well, kick the tires, report any bugs || there WILL be a 7.6.8 released ASAP for January after all
03:48.58CIA-5BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/util/bwscale.c: add support for '-' as the input file to designate stdin, use libbu memory management, reorder functions, and ws.
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04:45.56Twingyoffice is done
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19:53.53ktnehello
19:54.07ktnei've just downloaded brlcad but i can't find from where to start
19:54.20ktneis there some kind of "main" 3d editor?
19:54.36clock_mged
19:54.41ktneok, thx
19:54.52clock_brlcad: this should be added in some prominent place :)
19:55.42ktnehmm
19:55.50learnerclock_: hmm :)
19:55.52ktnei can't find anything familiar :)
19:56.21learnerktne: i suggest starting with the tutorials on http://brlcad.org  the first and second documents
19:56.33ktneok. thx
19:56.43learnerone gives a basic overview of the tools and methodologies
19:56.58ktnehow does it compare with autocad?
19:57.05learnerthe other is a fairly extensive series of tutorial lessons on mged
19:57.37learnerdepends entirely what you're comparing, somewhat apples and oranges
19:58.05ktnehmm
19:58.08learnerautocad is a drafting cad package, focuses on 2d, brl-cad is a solid modeling suite, more akin to unigraphics or pro/e
19:58.26ktnei have no idea what unigraphics and pro/e are :)
19:58.55ktnedoes it perform any kind of simulation?
19:59.00ktneor just modelling?
19:59.25learnerhttp://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Solid_modeling
19:59.34ktnethanks
19:59.35learnerit simulates light and energy transport
19:59.55learnertraditional raytracing and path tracing
20:00.15learneras well as thermal, computation of weights, moments of inertia, intersections etc
20:00.40clock_learner: intersections?
20:00.54learnerit doesn't perform vulnerability or stress analyses if that's what you're asking
20:01.46learnerclock_: overlapping regions/parts, collision detection.. i forget the pro/e term for it, we call them overlaps.. maybe "interferences"
20:02.00learneryeah, interferences
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21:45.38``Erikw00t, finally found it, http://www.blamonet.com/gallery/albums/userpics/10001/normal_kittens.jpeg
21:48.00brlcadheh, saw that
21:48.07brlcadand the matching ipod sock cover
21:48.56``Erikheh, which variant did you see? this is a parody of the 'normal' one :)
21:50.07brlcadhttp://www.craftster.org/forum/index.php?topic=76605.0
22:00.54``Erikheh, nifty
22:49.46pra5admy poor credit card.. =(
22:57.37``Erik<-- poorer
Jeff Waugh - find it at freshmeat.net! Modified by Tim Riker to work with blootbot logs, split per channel, etc. irclog2html for #brlcad on 20060220

irclog2html for #brlcad on 20060220

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01:39.50Mac-hi there
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02:01.13brlcadMac-: howdy
02:03.13Mac-fine and you ?
02:05.54brlcadgoing great
02:08.00brlcad~pl
02:08.02iboti guess pl is sometimes referred to as \"packet loss\"
02:08.30brlcad~.pl
02:08.31ibot.pl is, like, Poland (or a perl extension)
02:08.46brlcadthat's right, never seem to remember that one
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02:31.43Mac--sorry
02:31.57Mac--it was disconnect by ISP
02:51.45brlcadno problem here ;)
02:54.08Mac-i was here some time ago, and asked about drafting in brl-cad
02:54.26Mac-equivalent to autocad
02:54.29brlcadyeah, I vaguely recall
02:54.39brlcadthat's a frequent question regardless ;)
02:54.46brlcadeveryone want an autocad alternative :)
02:56.39Mac-but now my university started subject 'CAD/CAM Systems'
02:56.48Mac-and they talk about CATIA
02:56.57Mac-which is solid modeling
02:57.02brlcadthere's an expensive system
02:57.06Mac-yeah
02:57.08Mac-right
02:57.14Mac-very expensive
02:57.37Mac-and i want to ask you is brl-cad equivalent for CATIA ?
02:59.14brlcadmuch more equivalent than it is to autocad
02:59.42brlcadthere are plenty of features that catia does that brl-cad doesn't support, though
03:00.02brlcade.g. brl-cad doesn't do hardly anything related to CAM other than basic geometric management
03:00.46Mac-for CNC ?
03:01.07brlcadright
03:01.42brlcadthat said, it's not a far stretch to get into that area
03:01.56brlcadit's just a focus that's never been needed or considered
03:03.01Mac-hmm, well brl isn`t designed to CAM area ?
03:03.36brlcadCAD, design, and even more specifically towards analyses primarily
03:03.47brlcadrendering through raytracing, etc
03:04.00brlcadit has been  used in CAM areas
03:04.23brlcadit's easy enough to export geometry into a format that most CNC machining systems recognize
03:04.39brlcadand correct solidity should be preserved
03:05.14Mac-'should' is very expensive word in mechanic
03:05.15Mac-:>
03:06.38brlcadwell, it is preserved, guaranteed topology up to the tolerances you select
03:06.44Mac-ok, but i`m obnly student, my way to real CNC is like from Earth to Sun :)
03:08.14Mac-is there any support from graphic card for work in brl ?
03:08.37brlcadthe default rendering context is via opengl
03:09.19brlcadhistorically, the graphics card isn't relied upon much though as the models historically don't fit within video card memory (until very very recently)
03:11.39Mac-i`m working on Matrox MGA G200 8MB
03:12.12Mac-it is too weak ?
03:13.03brlcadfor brl-cad?  it should be completely fine
03:13.09brlcadour minimum requirements are pretty bare :)
03:15.06Mac-ok, waht about memmory and CPU subsystem ?
03:16.09brlcadthere's not really a memory or cpu minimum.. that only limits the size of the models and speed it will evaluate raytraces, etc
03:16.24brlcadmaybe a minimum of a couple megs to invoke the tcl version of mged
03:17.11Mac-but Pentium 166MHz is a little to small :>
03:18.35brlcadbrl-cad's run on stuff over the past 20 years, I've run it on old 486's with no problems
03:18.56brlcadjust slows it down ;)
03:21.33Mac-hehe
03:23.28Mac-i worked on AMD K6-2 450MHz for 6 years
03:23.58Mac-but CPU got malfunction (reset by itself from time to time)
03:24.12Mac-and now i have to byu something to replace
03:25.48Mac-but they are 486 level?
03:34.07``Erikand coleco adam
03:34.10``Erikand c128
03:34.40``Erikmebbe that's why I dig those little microcontrollers and pics so much, heh
03:35.29``Erikfight scenes in family guy are freakin' awesome
03:40.16brlcadthe whole scene to go smack down will ferrill is hilarious
03:45.38Mac-well something like PIII ~900MHz will be fine ?
03:51.29pra5adohh no work tomorrow
03:52.54pra5adbut i have class tomorrow
03:52.56pra5adnooooo
03:53.36``Erik...
03:53.40``Erikdamn you whine a lot
03:53.52``Erik:D
03:57.56pra5adold news
03:58.27pra5adill be in san jose for spring break
04:07.33``ErikI thought san jose was a whole lot more west than south
04:19.45pra5adthat is besides the point
04:45.22Mac-what about SMP systems ?
06:07.01brlcadMac-: all the raytracers take advantage of SMP automatically by default, and can be set up for distributed systems with a little extra effort
06:08.30Mac-nice
06:08.56Mac-i could get 2xPIII 866MHz for ~100$
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12:42.41CIA-5BRL-CAD: 03bob1961 * 10brlcad/src/librt/wdb_obj.c: Modified wdb_killtree_callback()'s call to dgo_eraseobjall_callback (i.e. parameters were out of order). Modified wdb_killtree_cmd() to call dgo_notifyWdb() to reduce the number of times observers are notified.
12:46.21CIA-5BRL-CAD: 03bob1961 * 10brlcad/src/librt/dg_obj.c: Added missing parameter to dgo_eraseobjall_callback(). Added dgo_notifyWdb().
12:52.33CIA-5BRL-CAD: 03bob1961 * 10brlcad/include/raytrace.h: Flesh out parameter list for the declaration of dgo_eraseobjall_callback() and dgo_notify(). Declare dgo_notifyWdb().
12:56.28CIA-5BRL-CAD: 03bob1961 * 10brlcad/src/librt/dg_obj.c: Removed declaration of dgo_eraseobjall_callback() and dgo_notify().
13:53.03CIA-5BRL-CAD: 03bob1961 * 10brlcad/misc/win32-msvc7/librt/librt.vcproj: Update the debug version's preprocessor definitions.
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15:37.54agecould BRL-CAD be used for building models also?
15:38.48``Erik... that's kinda the purpose of it :)
15:39.21agei mean, building (structures) models
15:41.02``Erikthere's a detailed building that comes with the package as an example
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15:42.10ageok, my interest is in using brlcad for simulating NBCR/explosive events, on structures
15:43.28``ErikARL has a group that does that, I THINK they use brlcad .g files, but I'm not sure
15:44.22ageare you with the ARL?
15:44.36``Eriksome of us, yeah
15:45.11agei've had back luck trying to contact govt ppl lately, whether it is ATEC or whatnot heh
15:45.31``Erik<-- has never talked to atec
15:45.49agedid you try to get in contact with them also? :D
15:46.23``Erikheh, no :)
15:46.36agethey had some good window dressing on how they evaluate devices for use in the battlefield
15:46.49agei thought, ok, if i talk to them, maybe they will share their methodology.
15:46.53ageno such luck.
15:47.27``Erikthere's an official brlcad email with an @arl.army.mil address, iirc, that goes to a fistful of people, I'd be surprised if you didn't get a fairly prompt response... not today of course, but tomorrow
15:48.12``Erik(or, if you just have questions and stuff, I'm here right now, others will wake up or something later)
15:49.06``Erikhrm, well, I thought there was an @arl.army.mil addy, but I'm not seeing it, heh
15:50.43``Eriknbc+r on structures? I can only think of a couple industry niches interested in that kinda stuff o.O
15:51.08brlcadthere was/is, it's a moderated forwardable alias -- the old mailing list addr
15:51.12brlcadcad @
15:51.19ageerik > have you ever looked at digital sandbox?
15:51.36agethey have a very very expensive solution for doing some of that
15:51.38``Eriknewp
15:51.47agethey do explosions only i believe
15:52.12``Erikblast, shock, fragments/debris, all that?
15:52.23brlcadsounds incredibly familiar :)
15:52.38agei'm not sure how much of it they do, but if i remember right, only explosions
15:52.58``Erikwell, those're some of the damage mechanisms from an explosion... heh
15:53.18agei want to do chemical agents of various types, bio agents, explosions, radiological, nuclear, etc
15:53.25``Eriksean, is the sf mailing list the best 'official channel' now?
15:53.31brlcadyou could rather easily simulate explosive events via the raytrace libraries, it's pretty much used in that manner already in muves to some extents
15:53.53brlcad``Erik: for anything non-sensitive, yeah
15:54.07brlcadand here
15:54.22brlcadi'd even say irc is primary, mailing list is secondary
15:54.23agewhat about modeling people within the buildings also?  I'd be interested in doing that too :D
15:54.23``Erikradiation transport can be done fairly easy, I'd imagine? (path tracing style)... chem might be a bit hairier, that seems to get more towards fem land
15:55.12agei don't like the idea that the US govt has to pay 300,000+ for a software package to do counter terrorism planning stuff
15:55.19brlcadthere's an effort going on this year where brl-cad is being used to simulate radiation transport levels to people in situations/places
15:55.47agewhat about fluid dispersion?
15:55.48``ErikI've seen plain csg models of humans that have enough fidelity for building and vehicle stuff... and nurb support is being improved right now
15:56.38brlcadwhy pay 300k when the government has already paid millions for brl-cad over it's life  ;)
15:57.01brlcadand it's fully customizeable and "free" today at least now
15:57.33agebrldcad: i think because http://www.dsbox.com/ is an easier to use package
15:58.07brlcadage: that is a fairly safe "no" towards fluid dispersion, don't think anyone has done that yet as fluid mechanics usually involve a completely different class of calculations
15:58.22ageand has more features specific to counter terrorism.
15:58.50``Erikfluid dispersion seems pretty well wedged into the FEM world
15:59.47``Erikif we had (better) voxel support, it's be a possibility, I'd suppose... that damn boy needs to get off his ass and do the nastran converters
16:00.02brlcadage: i do understand the naysayers concerns, brl-cad's gui modeling interface can be painful -- nobody ever wanted to pay to make it easy to use ..
16:00.27brlcadbut this is more in-line with the libraries, not so much the tools, and the libraries are pretty easy to use
16:00.57ageis brlcad funded only by govt users of it?
16:01.11brlcadprimarily, but not solely
16:01.29brlcadplus it's also open source now, so anyone can get in on the development
16:03.14brlcadthere's not really anything preventing you or anyone else from contributing to the project to the point that they'd actually become a core developer or core contributor (for non-devs) etc
16:10.06agethat is good, i have to see how much time i will have in the future
16:10.53brlcadeven if you can't get involved and there's something that you're interested in, it's good to raise the issues and questions on the mailing list or to even make feature requests on sf
16:11.29brlcadthey do get read several times over
16:11.54brlcadof course unless it's something sensitive, then just contact directly
16:14.51``Erikheh, I thought milton was supposed to be doing that
16:15.05brlcadheh
16:15.25brlcadsomething different
16:15.28``ErikI was kinda hoping I'd get put on that after milton... didn't do anything at all :D
16:15.31``Erikahhh, okie
16:15.57brlcadworking on auto-improving the orca human model
16:16.05``Erik'auto-improving'?
16:16.07``Erik<PROTECTED>
16:16.16brlcadyep, it's looking good so far
16:16.51brlcadfound a nasty bug in orca in the process
16:17.37brlcadsomething trivial to fix fortunately
16:22.01``Erikhttp://www.ctrlaltdel-online.com/comic.php?d=20030607  *snrktkt*
16:24.13brlcadheh
16:25.29ageErik: the value of small teams of snipers is tying up conventional forces is vastly underrated :)
16:25.55``Eriktrue, but if they don't watch the paths to get to 'em... EXACTLY that happens
16:26.06``ErikI've done it and I've been done like that, hehehehhee
16:26.57ageyeah, but most infantry people become so sound aware when deployed
16:27.25agemy sense of smell became hyper sensitive also when i was deployed
16:29.21``ErikI'd imagine that any sense that could keep you from getting dead becomes hightened in those kind of situations o.O
16:29.47agei just looked at the photo too, it had someone taking a shot from the knee
16:30.09agewhich is something in the army we almost never do, and AA discourages if i remember right
16:30.26agealmost exclusively from the prone :D
16:30.57``Erikopposed to ut and quake, where most shots are taken while spinning airborne
16:31.06``Erik:D
16:31.28ageyeah, the unrealistic aspect of most FPSs bother me.
16:31.54agejump through the door, land and duck, facing opposite direction, shoot.
16:31.56agelol.
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16:32.34``Erikrunning 60mph, jumping 30 feet, landing without ever losing bead...
16:33.02brlcadhttp://www.ctrlaltdel-online.com/comic.php?d=20060130
16:33.05agei remember AA taking breathing into affect though, which is an improvement over most FPSs
16:33.06``Eriklaughing off hits with no ill effects, just grab a box and it's all better, do it over and over
16:33.39agebut, i remember AA discounting trigger squeeze, as if newb soldiers have perfect non pulling squeezes from the start
16:33.40age:D
16:33.44``Erikonly in 'aim' mode
16:33.53``Erikiirc
16:34.14ageyeah.
16:34.22``Erikone of these days, I'll get my fbsd box back up and running how it's supposed to so I can play some games again
16:34.41agethey overrate the recoil on the m249 also
16:35.05ageexperienced m249/240/60 gunners, have very tight shot groups on piasters
16:35.41``Erikheh
16:36.19``Erikback when I was playing it, i tended to take medic roles...
16:36.34ageit would ruin most FPS games, but i'll tell you straight up.  Nothing compares to an M249 for real life stuff
16:36.49``Erikmassive points just to stop one dude from bleeding
16:37.48agethe m249, is only 17 lbs, cyclic rate is very fast, recoil is minimal, one person can take out squads with minimal difficulty.
16:40.20``Erikprovided they aren't flanked
16:42.34agealso, another thing that is great about the m249 is the accuracy
16:43.01ageyou can snipe with an m249, with the regular barrel
16:43.42ageput some NODs on it, and they are so sweet at night
16:43.42``Erikwhat's the dispersion numbers? do ya know? (are they public release?)
16:44.00agei think they are public release
16:44.37agehttp://www.army.mil/fact_files_site/m-249_saw/index.html
16:45.07agehere it says max effective range on a point target is 600m
16:45.18agebut i think it is longer than that
16:45.42ageditto with effectiveness on area target
16:45.54``Erikthey don't say the radius or anything of accuracy at those distances, tho :/
16:46.10``Erikah well
16:46.35ageit is really easy to clean and disassemble also
16:47.56``Erikagainst an 8x8 target at 850m, 90% hit rate out of 800 rounds (zeroed to 300m)
16:49.11age5.56 rounds drop out at the long ranges so skill comes into play
16:49.50agebut, i thought my m249 was much more accurate than the m60, which i was used primarily before then
16:49.51``Erikthese were vehicle mounted computer systems and test stands, I think...
16:50.50``Erikaannnyyywwwaaayyysss
16:51.24ageprobably not vehicle mounted, since m249s are not fired so often in vehicles
16:52.44``Erikthis was a 'crow' system, they were testing different guns for use in it
16:52.50``Erikcomputer controlled dealie, I think
16:53.13``Erik*shrug* I skipped most of the slides in the pdf, was lookin' for the numbers :)
16:56.51pra5adbuildings eh
16:58.31``Erikoi, prasad
16:58.48pra5adwe used STMG (see ARA) for that
17:07.13brlcadwhich should be integrated with STMG, that was someone's failure to notice the replication/need
17:07.37brlcadthey're still busy reinventing the wheel there
17:07.46brlcadgeometricly
17:09.57pra5adwhat should be integrated with stmg?
17:10.27pra5ado brlcad
17:13.51ageSTMG looks interesting
17:14.08pra5adbuggy as hell though
17:14.22pra5adhere's the kicker.. its a java program
17:15.15``Erik*shudder*
17:15.40agehehehe
17:19.05pra5adbrlcad, fwiw stmg does save its models in 4 formats, and iirc one is a .g
17:20.28``Erikhttp://www.ctrlaltdel-online.com/comic.php?d=20031004
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17:26.41pra5adwatched harold and kumar again
17:26.42pra5ad=)
17:39.40learnerpra5ad, yeah, v4 ascii iirc, maybe
17:39.57learnerand it's something like simplified arbs/boxes
17:40.29learnertheir internal geometry management was pathetic from what I listened to last fall
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19:43.58pierbrlcad... about g-dxf, get an error message when giving:
19:44.09pierbash-3.00$ g-dxf -o cubo.dxf cubo.g cubo.s
19:44.09pierdb_walk_subtree() FAIL on '/cubo.s'
19:44.09pier12 triangles written
20:06.06brlcadpier: cubo.s is a "leaf" node, i.e. a primitive
20:06.45brlcadconverters work on a region/combination level
20:07.28brlcadgenerally speaking, there is no "physical" geometry until you make a region
20:08.11pierI made one as a matter of fact
20:08.18brlcadit's just a template, a void space
20:08.25piercubo.s -> cubo.r
20:08.26brlcadbefore you make a region
20:08.37brlcadah, great
20:08.52brlcadso specify that instead of the .s on g-dxf
20:09.00pierso the command I gave was faulty
20:09.10pierok yhanks
20:09.14pierthanks
20:09.22brlcadyou told it to convert cubo.s
20:09.31brlcadg-dxf -o cubo.dxf cubo.g cubo.r
20:09.32pieryep
20:10.02pierok it works
20:10.40pierbrlcad... I am still working on the second volume but a bit slowly
20:12.38brlcadno problem at all ;)
20:12.42pierso I am not sure about when it will be ready
20:13.14brlcadwouldn't want to shadow it with the other big announcements coming out this month and next regardless
20:13.37pierbit in trouble with an exam these days...
20:13.50pierabout releasing a win version?
20:14.22brlcadthat's one of the big announcements
20:16.08pierand a taste of the others...?
20:16.34piernevermind it it is top secret
20:16.57brlcadno top secrets, this is open source :)
20:17.34pieryes of course
20:19.20brlcadmost of it's in the NEWS file already, hasn't been announced in a while
20:19.40pierok I'll have a look at it
20:19.43brlcadthe new clone duplication command will be big news to some
20:20.38brlcadit's a tool for very easily creating patterns of geometry, way easier than the current pattern tool
20:20.54pierIs it to make copies of components and regions?
20:21.17brlcadyes, in various ways through a pretty simple syntax
20:21.53brlcadone of a handful of really powerful tools from the former GSI modeling powerhouse
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20:33.28pierbrlcad, I can't see why I am not able to import a dxf file exported with the gdxf commnd with blender as well as with  ac3d
20:34.23brlcadblender's dxf support is horrible
20:35.41pierI'm testing this with a dxf file that ac3d can open whereas blender fails
20:36.08pierbut both of them cannot open cubo.dxf
20:36.23brlcadkeep in touch with a few of the blender devs from time to time, their support is very basic.  fails on most things that autocad exports too
20:36.46pierneithed autocad does
20:36.53pierneither
20:37.09brlcadif autocad doesn't then it's probably our fault ;)
20:37.14brlcadunless it's a versioning problem
20:37.19brlcaddxf has several versions
20:39.26brlcadsend me or post the cubo.dxf, I can at least see if it's something trivial
20:39.48brlcadshould probably get reported as a bug on the tracker
20:39.49piernot that I am interested in it but before trying to extract triangles from the dxf file I wanted to have a go at looking the objects in these programs
20:40.15pierok will via ftp work
20:40.30brlcadextract triangles?  there are better exporters for that
20:40.39brlcadstl is a very simple triangle format
20:40.59brlcade-mail would be better, but ftp works too
20:41.56pieryes... I am still looking to writing a program (crappy for sure) that draws the mai view of an object
20:42.09piermain views
20:43.10pierremoving hidden faces (the painter's algo) and drawing hidden edges with dashed lines
20:43.34brlcador not drawing them altogether ;)
20:45.10pierdo you think that it would be to much effort for a rookie programmer?
20:45.39pierplease give me the e:mail
20:48.14brlcadnot too much effort, anything's possible ;)
20:49.42pierI thought that extracting all the triangles wouldn't be that hard... perhaps I am wrong
20:50.09pierIs there a positive verse in the vertex numbering?
20:50.38brlcadextracting the triangle is the easiest part
20:50.45pierso that it woud be possible to work out an exiting versor from the surface?
20:52.50pierthat way it wouldn't be hard to pinpoint the hidden ones
21:00.50brlcadpossible, though that's where it gets tricky
21:01.28brlcadi've seen some algorithms for it, but only glanced through them
21:04.07pierI'll have a look at the dxf txt file to see if the triangles are stored cws or ccws
21:07.02pierand let you know if I get to something
21:14.00pierOk bye then
Jeff Waugh - find it at freshmeat.net! Modified by Tim Riker to work with blootbot logs, split per channel, etc. irclog2html for #brlcad on 20060221

irclog2html for #brlcad on 20060221

01:38.28CIA-5BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/util/ (decimate.c pixembed.c): libbu memory management
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05:49.56pra5adi see no difference in performance between this 6200 vs my old ti4600
05:50.00pra5adhrm
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20:28.08CIA-5BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/README: initial README file that describes what is in each of the various directories in here
20:29.29CIA-5BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/Makefile.am: include the README in the dist
20:30.06CIA-5BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/HACKING: refer to the new src/README file for entries not listed in HACKING
Jeff Waugh - find it at freshmeat.net! Modified by Tim Riker to work with blootbot logs, split per channel, etc. irclog2html for #brlcad on 20060222

irclog2html for #brlcad on 20060222

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03:38.03justin_parallel path magnetic technology is under fire on wiki
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09:17.46cobbauthah! +1 insightful  http://slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=177612&cid=14735202
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19:22.56*** topic/#brlcad is http://brlcad.org/ || BRL-CAD is now Free Software! || BRL-CAD Windows port has been merged to HEAD, not yet stable yet || Archer is now on HEAD as well, kick the tires, report any bugs || there WILL be a 7.6.8 released ASAP for January after all
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Jeff Waugh - find it at freshmeat.net! Modified by Tim Riker to work with blootbot logs, split per channel, etc. irclog2html for #brlcad on 20060223

irclog2html for #brlcad on 20060223

00:14.17*** join/#brlcad pra5ad (n=pra5ad@pool-70-16-30-144.balt.east.verizon.net)
00:18.05``Erikblarggghhhhh
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00:42.38``Erikissues, prasad?
00:43.13pra5ad_trying to get wireless working on ubuntu
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03:13.04justin_mmm long day
03:54.08brlcadvery
03:54.15brlcadhow's that cake
04:12.22pra5ad_new penny arcade is hi-larious
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10:21.39slackaddictHi. I can't for the life of me view any .pix images on Slackware, any ideas?
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10:22.41cobbautgoodmorning
10:23.11slackaddictmorning
10:23.15cobbauti started a humble attempt to create an "mged tutorial by example"
10:23.32cobbautit is downloadable here http://cobbaut.be/byExample.pdf
10:24.02cobbautplease tell me what you think (and correct mistakes, since i'm not native english)
10:25.03debianaddict;-)
10:26.43slackaddictcobbault: I'm just having a look at your tutorial, looks good ao far
10:27.33cobbautthx
10:27.56slackaddictcobbault: can you view the .pix images on debian?
10:28.15cobbautwhat .pix images ?
10:30.16cobbauthmm...gimp doesn't open them
10:30.44slackaddictif you do a raytrace of a model and output to a file I think its always .pix format
10:31.12slackaddict...at least I haven't found a way of outputting to a different format
10:31.44slackaddictI've tried gimp, but it says it can't read any of the files
10:36.46cobbauti take screenshots of the raytrace...
10:38.57slackaddictthats a good idea...I was trying to output images from rtwizard
10:40.36cobbauti tried outputting to postscript, but the image is always very small and in a corner of the postscriptpage
10:41.06cobbautbtw, i'm a brlcad newbie
10:42.19slackaddictI'm pretty new too
10:43.17slackaddict...but I have quite a bit of experience with 3d modelling
10:52.29slackaddictcobbaut: lol i just noticed i've been writing your name wrong, sorry about that :-)
10:59.13cobbauthappens a lot...
10:59.28cobbauti don't find a way to open .pix :(
11:00.20slackaddictme too :(
11:01.30slackaddicti don't know if its all .pix images or if brl-cad is outputting corrucpted ones
12:39.21slackaddictI have posted a question about my .pix image problem in the help forum at sourceforge, now its time for lunch.........
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13:42.32brlcad_cobbaut: brl-cad .pix images are first quadrant raw images
13:43.28brlcad_there are a whole suite of tools in brl-cad for viewing/manipulating pix files, e.g. pix-fb -F/dev/Xl somefile.pix
13:43.59brlcad_since they are raw, you have to provide the image dimensions if the pix image is something other than the default of 512x512
13:45.10brlcad_to open a raw in gimp, rename the file to .raw and/or select raw in gimp providing the image dimenions when prompted (same goes for photoshop), you'll then need to flip the image horizontally and vertically as they both work on fourth quadrant images
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15:29.48cobbautbrlcad: actually it was slackaddict who wanted to see .pix files, but thx for the info anyway
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21:33.07brlcadcobbaut: yep, more just informational
21:33.33brlcadyou can also output to file and simulataneously display, e.g. use the -o file.pix and -F/dev/Xl together for example
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22:47.29cobbautbrlcad: i tried the dcraw and ufraw plugins for gimp, but fail to open the .pix output
22:48.28cobbautgimp 2.2 on debian
22:57.46cobbautchanging irc client...currently on firefox :-P
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23:47.46``Erikhome at last
Jeff Waugh - find it at freshmeat.net! Modified by Tim Riker to work with blootbot logs, split per channel, etc. irclog2html for #brlcad on 20060224

irclog2html for #brlcad on 20060224

00:18.15``Erikah.
00:18.16``ErikChoo.
00:24.25brlcadcobbaut: it's not a plugin, gimp supports it natively, it's a simple raw image -- interleaved R G B values dumped to a file
00:24.36brlcadbut it has to be named right, .raw
00:25.10brlcadotherwise gimp tries to parse it as an sgi ".pix" which is something different
00:28.35brlcadufraw is a different kind of raw afaik
00:28.48brlcadraw from digital cameras, which is encoded different
00:30.16brlcadunless gimp has changed in the past few years
00:41.09brlcadbah, just tried opening it in gimp, no longer see the option I remember
00:41.29brlcadso forgo the raw, convert to png with pix-png
00:41.46brlcadpix-png file.pix > file.png
00:42.09brlcador convert to pnm pretty easily as is:
00:42.20brlcadecho "P6
00:42.28brlcad512 512 255" > file.pnm
00:42.33brlcadcat file.pix >> file.pnm
01:19.54CIA-5BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/BUGS: wavelet isn't working correctly on a simple image decomposition and reconstruction
03:05.55justin_another long day >_<
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12:25.03CIA-5BRL-CAD: 03d_rossberg * 10brlcad/src/librt/wdb_obj.c: allocate memory before RT_APPLICATION_INIT
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15:21.42brlcadd_rossberg: nice catch, eek
15:25.09d_rossbergisn't it :-)
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17:31.09birdmuni get errors (many) after installing cygwin(complete) and after running configure and then make ... is there anywhere i can look that i havent looked?
17:31.14birdmunfor help that is
17:36.38birdmuni guess it would be good if there was  living being here
17:40.09``ErikO.o
17:40.29``Erik<-- doesn't know if it works on cygwin... what kinda errors?
17:40.46``Erik(and spfdmo? springfield, mo? like, 6580X?)
17:42.04birdmunactually joplin mo
17:42.07birdmunbut close enuf
17:42.14birdmunhour and a half
17:42.18birdmunmaybe hour
17:43.33birdmunjust a sec lemme see if i can get thru make and i will try posting ... it complains alot about hooks and some variables being defined more than once
17:45.05birdmunnot that running make is a quick thing to do lol
17:48.23birdmundamn forgot to pipe the output to a txt file
17:58.48birdmuna great deal of the errors are prefaced w/ a tk
18:01.41birdmunam i to guess that the tk lib or some such item did not get installed properly?
18:09.27*** part/#brlcad birdmun (n=birdmun@ppp-70-134-51-45.dsl.spfdmo.swbell.net)
18:09.34*** join/#brlcad birdmun (n=birdmun@ppp-70-134-51-45.dsl.spfdmo.swbell.net)
18:09.39birdmunDOH!
18:09.45birdmunwrong window
18:22.46``Eriklibtk is built along with the system if necessary, in src/other/libtk
18:23.09``Erikit might be that the libtk it's trying to build is the unix variant instead of the windows variant... I don't do windows, so'z I d'no
18:23.20``Erik<-- lived in springfield for 8 yrs, went to smsu
18:23.42``Erikactually, nixa for a bit, then springfield, near battlefield for most of it
18:36.26brlcadbirdmun: cygwin should work, though I haven't tested in a few months
18:37.11birdmuni wish i knew how to make it work
18:37.13brlcadit might not be a clean build though shouldn't take much to get it
18:37.19birdmuncurrently going to mssu
18:37.31brlcadwhat's the error(s), pastebin it
18:37.33birdmunred headed step child to smsu i guess :P
18:37.58birdmuni should be able to pipe the make output to a txt file yes?
18:38.11birdmunjust type make >> make.txt?
18:38.19birdmunor no?
18:39.33brlcadmake > build.log 2>&1
18:40.12brlcador just copy/paste
18:40.14brlcad~pastebin
18:40.15ibothmm... pastebin is a place to paste your stuff without flooding the channel - try http://pastebin.com/, or http://pastebin.ca, or http://channels.debian.net/paste
18:40.29brlcadyou can paste it there, then post the url here
18:41.19birdmunvery odd ... i typed the make > ... and it seems to have hung it
18:43.00birdmunwell ... just typed make and we are off
18:43.06birdmuni believe it takes about 20 mins
18:44.10brlcaddid it fail to build, or fail to run?
18:44.24birdmunbuild ... i guess
18:44.25brlcadand are you just looking for a binary? or looking to build?
18:44.39birdmuni realize there is not a win32 binary yet
18:44.47brlcadactually there are
18:45.05birdmunok ...
18:45.09brlcadwe've had binaries for a couple years
18:45.14brlcadjust don't distribute them :)
18:45.17birdmunic
18:45.21brlcadthere are issues to work out
18:45.31brlcadwe're close to doing a full "first" release
18:45.35birdmuni see the topic says not stable
18:46.27birdmuni have dabbled in linux and am really trying to migrate to linux from windows ... just havent gotten that far yet
18:47.20birdmuni know i have enough knowledge to be dangerous
18:47.48brlcad:)
18:47.58birdmuni know this because i have managed to thrash my linux partition
18:48.01brlcadbest way is to just take the plunge and install full ;)
18:48.25birdmunjust enough that i cant figure out how to fix it or havent spent enough time to figure it out
18:49.26birdmunmy problem so far is i use my system to play games as well and windows games on linux arent just install and run affairs
18:50.55birdmunalthough wine is coming along nicely from what i have been seeing
18:56.42birdmunhttp://pastebin.com/570668
18:56.53birdmuni hope that is the link i needed to paste
18:57.27brlcadthat's right
18:57.28birdmunthat being after i ./configure --disable-opengl --enable-optimized
18:58.42brlcadhmm, it's trying to build the X11 interface to Tk
18:59.05brlcaddo you have X11 installed in cygwin?
18:59.10brlcadheaders and libs
18:59.32birdmunwhen i setup cygwin i installed everything except games and mail
19:00.02birdmunusing cygwin 1.5.19-4
19:02.16birdmuni have a shortcut on my desktop that is for Xserver
19:02.27birdmunthe icon is in my system tray
19:03.52brlcadyou can have the binary and not have the header or libs
19:04.04brlcadconfigure might have failed to find it as well
19:04.15brlcadcan you mail your config.log?
19:05.15birdmunconfig.log will be in the brlcad dir that i was configuring in?
19:05.45birdmunfound it
19:06.34birdmunsent
19:06.41brlcadokie dokie
19:07.05birdmuni wish i were more self sufficient about thi
19:07.07birdmunthis
19:17.58brlcadyeah, it failed to find X11 headers and libs..
19:18.12brlcadyet you do have a undefined r
19:18.13brlcadeference to `_XFillRectangle'
19:18.23brlcader, you do have a /usr/X11R6 directory
19:18.39brlcaddo you have /usr/X11R6/include/X11/Xlib.h ?
19:18.59brlcadand a /usr/X11R6/lib/libX11*something*
19:20.29birdmuni shall look
19:21.11birdmunyes on the Xlib.h
19:23.19birdmunno libX11*something*
19:23.38brlcadwhat's in your /usr/X11R6/lib dir?
19:23.51birdmuni realize that *something* was a 'wildcard'
19:25.17birdmundoh
19:25.28birdmunjust a sec
19:25.32birdmunwrong dir
19:26.15birdmuni have a libX11-6.dll.a and a libX11.dll.a
19:34.31brlcadhmm
19:34.35brlcadtry linking against them then
19:34.52birdmunbeyond my minor knowledge
19:34.56brlcadmake LIBS="/usr/X11R6/lib/libX11.dll.a"   might work
19:35.04birdmunok
19:35.04brlcadif it really is a .a
19:35.10birdmunit is
19:35.16birdmunlisted anyway
19:35.18brlcadit's named that
19:35.26birdmundo i need to make clean first?
19:35.32brlcadi mean if it really is an archive, it'd be different if it was a dll
19:35.34brlcadno
19:35.39birdmunk
19:36.41birdmunits off ... i will let you know in a bit
19:51.13birdmunhttp://pastebin.com/570758
19:51.57birdmununtrained eye says its something about opengl
19:52.58birdmunbeing as i used the --disable-opengl switch
19:53.11brlcadyeah
19:53.40brlcadwrong flag
19:53.45brlcadit's not --disable-opengl
19:53.50brlcad--without-opengl
19:54.25brlcadalso when you paste errors, don't need to see the end of the errors, need to see the beginning of them ;)
19:54.29brlcadfrom the compile line down
19:54.37brlcadall the rest are just superfluous
19:54.55brlcadcould be two listed, could be two thousand, the first is the only one that matters
19:55.35birdmunic
19:56.03birdmunwell i guess im going to have to work on this later ... gf is bein a pain
19:56.07birdmunhasta
19:56.15birdmunthanks for the help so far
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20:39.05``Erikhmmmm
20:39.56*** join/#brlcad Maloeran (n=maloeran@glvortex.net)
20:41.15``Erikpwn3d you like a car d00r, y0
20:41.18``Erik:D *duck*
20:42.15MaloeranBrlCad if you don't mind, or anyone else who would know, are the models you use generally/always made of distinct closed volumes?
20:42.27MaloeranEheh erik :)
20:44.36``Eriklemme go poke him for ya
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20:47.32MaloeranGood afternoon Justin
20:47.43Twingyhey
20:47.50TwingyI keep forgetting to send mark something
20:47.52MaloeranA quick question for you, if you have 7 seconds, are the models you use generally/always made of distinct closed volumes?
20:48.01Twingyyep
20:48.05MaloeranWhat's the something, if I'm allowed to know?
20:48.17Twingypaperwork stuff that allows us to hire you
20:48.30Twingybeen really busy >_<
20:48.39``Erikmaking cardboard xserves
20:48.43Twingyand that
20:48.49Twingylike I said, busy
20:48.50MaloeranSo always closed volumes... You know, keeping track of rays being inside/outside volumes as they traverse the geometry would be more reliable than discarding hits excessively close to the previous intersection
20:49.21Twingyand that's the conclusion I came to about a year ago
20:49.21MaloeranThanks for the answer, I have to answer Mark's concerns on this
20:49.40MaloeranDoesn't adrt use the distance method?
20:49.41Twingywhen I was complaining to the mgmt at a bnd meeting about this
20:49.46Twingyfor what?
20:49.56MaloeranFor discarding multiple "faulty" hits near edges
20:50.04Twingyfor overlaps?
20:50.07MaloeranYes
20:50.40MaloeranMaybe I'm just not up-to-date, it has been a while since we discussed that particular issue
20:50.56Twingyif you have a chunk of steel and a chunk of copper and they overlap by 1mm, then 1mm steel + 1mm copper get counted while traversing 1 mm
20:51.06Twingythere is no "correct" way, there is simply a "consistent" way
20:51.22MaloeranOkay, I'm refering to overlapping triangles, when a ray hits their common boundary
20:51.40Twingyan edge?
20:51.43MaloeranYes
20:52.04Twingyum, I'm not sure what I do actually, I don't have any algorithms that bork up because of that issue
20:52.19TwingyI think my algorithms picks one or the other though
20:52.25Twingy-s
20:52.35Twingytriangle 'A' -or- 'B'
20:52.41Twingywhichever is closest
20:52.42brlcadMaloeran: generally, they are all solid volumes
20:52.59MaloeranAnd you detect "faulty" hits from rays hitting both triangles from the very rapproched distance of the two intersections
20:53.11MaloeranThanks brlcad, so there are exceptions?
20:53.17TwingyI avoid stupid algorithms that try to grasp a definitive answer from like 10 rays
20:53.36TwingyI prefer numerically integrating over the problem to converge
20:53.54Twingythat completely eliminates small errors
20:54.19Twingyfiring 10 trillion rays where 3 rays are degenerate on an edge simply doesn't matter
20:54.32MaloeranWell, if all volumes are definitely closed, there's another way to solve this, avoiding playing with the range of numerical errors
20:54.52MaloeranAh, quite ;).  Just trying to address Mark's concerns
20:55.06Twingya good tesselator doesn't create overlaps
20:55.33MaloeranTriangles overlap because of numerical error in the ray-triangle intersections, it's unavoidable
20:55.34Twingybut we have crappy geometry usually
20:55.35``Eriktoo bad we don't use good tesselators (yet)
20:56.00Twingybecause of numerical instability in IEEE 754 actually
20:56.05MaloeranRight
20:56.24Twingylike I said, my stuff is built around not caring about LIVE -or- DIE based on 3 rays
20:56.38TwingyI think that's a retarded way of thinking about things
20:56.42brlcadit's not usually numerical error that results in the overlaps
20:56.46Twingybased on todays technology available
20:56.52brlcadit's either bonefide modeling overlaps
20:57.07brlcador it's a result of inadequate or at least inconsistent tessellation
20:57.23MaloeranI'm refering to triangles sharing a common edge, brlcad. They are considered distinct entities, and a ray hitting right on the edge will hit both triangles
20:57.33Twingybtw, you got any news with you an survice?
20:57.37``Erikproe->iges->proe->brlcad-bot-> ...
20:57.39``Erik?
20:57.51Twingyproe->iges->proe->brlcad->bot->adrt :)
20:58.12brlcad``Erik: the proe converter itself does fine to tesselate overlaps all by itself
20:58.13MaloeranApparently, they are almost ready to hire me to work from Canada until the visa is ready
20:58.23Twingyon their stuff?
20:58.29brlcadon their stuff
20:58.51brlcadthey tessellate based on alignment
20:58.57brlcadmodelers rarely align
20:59.06Twingymodelers rarely think
20:59.10brlcadso you end up with bolts in holes that don't match up
20:59.18MaloeranAhah. Nice
20:59.30brlcadthat's something I wouldn't want to care about while modeling
20:59.36brlcadit's a bolt, it goes in the hole
21:00.08brlcadthe fact that rotating it 37.382 degrees might have helped the tessellator is a detail that is just a pita
21:00.11Maloeranbrlcad, any notable exceptions on the volumes of models you work with not being closed?
21:00.26brlcadnone come to mind
21:00.44brlcadunless we're just playing around with something
21:00.45MaloeranSo this is pretty much a constant, okay.
21:00.50brlcadpretty much
21:00.54brlcadsolid modeling ;)
21:01.05MaloeranI know :), I was wondering if there were exceptions
21:01.07MaloeranThanks
21:01.07brlcadotherwise we could just use a generic modeler
21:01.29Twingyfor a strong defense!
21:01.49Twingyyou coming in today?
21:01.55Twingymike keeps wandering in here
21:02.02``Erikcattleprod, dude
21:02.03brlcadworking on quantum stuff
21:02.11TwingyI got no cattleprod
21:02.26Twingymaybe I'll throw that broken hard drive at him
21:02.36brlcadget that jpeg encoding working?
21:03.08Twingynyet, but I do have an algorithm I'm going to try coding up tonight
21:03.22TwingyI didn't get home till past 10 last night
21:03.52Twingyworking on chucks algorithm
21:06.07brlcadheh, that'd make for a nice book/paper
21:06.13brlcad"chuck's algorithm"
21:06.18Twingyyep
21:06.37brlcad"bob's postulate"
21:06.49brlcad"ed's conjecture"
21:06.57Twingy"justin's color maker thingy"
21:07.14brlcadwoowwwoo woo knyuck knyuck knyuck
21:07.21Twingypjy would love reading those
21:07.24Twingypjt
21:07.31Twingypidgjit
21:08.09``ErikI wonder what he'd do if we started calling him pidjit
21:08.31Twingygood question
21:08.36Twingyhe seems to fire people when they do good stuff
21:08.42Twingymaybe you'd get a raise? *scratches head*
21:09.23``Erikheh, opposed to "you're fired!" it'd be "you're mgmt!"
21:09.47Twingyhaha
21:09.57TwingyI might get division chief for that one
21:10.26MaloeranEheh. By the way Justin, for a manager, Mark did surprise me in his reply regarding the ray-tracer's specifications
21:10.42Twingyhrm?
21:11.43MaloeranHe's just more knowledgeable on the technical stuff than I expected, he saw the potential flaw of rays hitting both triangles sharing an edge
21:11.52Twingyah
21:12.05``Erikprobably cuz it's been an issue of great discussion for a while now? :)
21:12.16Twingyfor oh say, the last 25 years?
21:12.26``Erikthe dreaded "overlap" spew
21:12.36MaloeranOh? :) Anyway it's solved, it was just not present in the specs draft
21:12.37Twingylee likes to babble about that
21:12.47Twingyokie
21:13.07``Erikand the final line of the spec is "it ain't rocket science"
21:13.08``Erik?
21:13.08``Erik:D
21:13.28Twingyhehehe
21:13.33Twingy*kaboom*
21:17.01MaloeranIt's there if you ever want to take a look, Justin : http://www.rayforce.net/manpages/  A first draft
21:18.01``Erikheh, kinda GL-ey
21:18.48MaloeranQuite
21:19.10``Erikbeing able to deal with infiniband or myrinet without using the tcp/ip wrapper would probably be useful, no?
21:19.52``Erikstrawberry sundaes? I think raspberry is a better choice :D
21:20.07MaloeranThat's what I thought, yes. It involves throwing all the low-level packets into the hands of the user, but I suppose that's the best solution
21:20.17MaloeranOh, absolutely :)
21:20.53``Erikthose generated from roff?
21:21.36``ErikrtBuild, RT_HINT_FASTEST_BUILD, 'performance' should probably be singular
21:22.31``Erikheh, sed -i.bak s/erformances/erformance/g *
21:22.31``Eriko.O
21:22.32MaloeranAh yes, I still make this error. Thanks
21:22.44``Eriknp :)
21:23.14``Erik"zero pointer"? a NULL?
21:24.19MaloeranI prefer the use of zero, personal preference. People tend to forget the shortcuts from the fact that NULL is zero, bitwise arithmetics on multiple pointers and so on
21:24.29MaloeranIn the C standard, it's defined as the same thing anyway
21:25.46``Erikhm, is NULL actually guaranteed to be 0x0? I didn't think it was
21:25.46``Erikjust like EXIT_SUCCESS isn't guaranteed to be 0, though I've never seen it otherwise
21:26.46MaloeranNULL isn't garanteed to be 0x0, but assigning 0x0 to a pointer garantees it to be the equivalent of NULL... Go figure :p
21:30.51Twingynil
21:31.19Twingy``Erik, I feel like resuming my work on BAD
21:31.21``Eriknil is a good language agnostic term :)
21:31.29``Erikok, do you need help interpretting?
21:31.34Twingynah
21:31.38``Erikaight
21:31.42Twingyactually, I don't recall at this point
21:31.51Twingybut I probly won't look at it today
21:32.01``Erikwell, you need 3 algorithms in place to do it "for real"
21:32.05Twingyyep
21:32.25``Erikand I have documentation and now reference code (java) for all 3
21:33.26``Erikneo over there coded it up... heh, he's been wearing big muff earphones with his ipod all freakin' day :)
21:34.04Twingyhaha
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21:34.45``Erikadrt vl stuff was listed as "cancelled" at the ttm
21:34.57``Erikfyi
21:35.05Twingyso? :)
21:35.39``Erikokie, just a minor detail, anything you do will be unexpected, so you have some cover from the magnifying glass
21:41.23Twingynah
21:41.27Twingythat's why I do it off the clock :)
21:55.41Twingyhrm
21:55.49Twingymike was explaining how his trigger guard gets cold
Jeff Waugh - find it at freshmeat.net! Modified by Tim Riker to work with blootbot logs, split per channel, etc. irclog2html for #brlcad on 20060225

irclog2html for #brlcad on 20060225

00:10.16*** join/#brlcad cobbaut (n=paul@135.105-136-217.adsl.skynet.be)
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01:47.36``Erikmeh
02:51.31pra5ad_time
02:51.35pra5ad_%time
02:51.44pra5ad_ibot, time?
02:51.46ibotextra, extra, read all about it, time is 1 dimensional, or everlasting, an illusion, or 2006.02.25  2:51:46 GMT
03:16.56pra5ad_ibot, time?
03:16.58ibotYou are educated stupid and therefore too dumb to understand nature's perfect time cube! (2006.02.25  3:16:58 GMT)
03:17.02pra5ad_ack
03:24.58brlcadheh
03:38.12pra5ad_gl tomorrow
03:38.16pra5ad_bai
04:36.37tegtmeyeibot, time?
04:36.39ibotYou are educated stupid and therefore too dumb to understand nature's perfect time cube! (2006.02.25  4:36:39 GMT)
05:32.44CIA-5BRL-CAD: 03johnranderson * 10brlcad/src/conv/g-dxf.c: now always outputs 4 vertices per 3DFACE
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11:21.47cobbaut_brlcad: thx for the echo .pix to .pnm tip, it works!
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17:38.50brlcadcobbaut: yes, sometimes useful -- pix-png worked as well I presume?
17:43.43CIA-5BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/TODO: test out float-equal
19:54.41birdmunwell i came back to see if i could get somewhere today ... I managed to copy and paste error logs from my attempted make using cygwin ... anyone that could help?
21:11.56cobbautbrlcad:.pnm is a good solution, so i didn't try pix-png...btw it's not in debian stable ;-)
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21:27.49cobbautibot time
21:27.52ibotfrom memory, time is 1 dimensional, or everlasting, an illusion, or 2006.02.25 21:27:52 GMT
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23:34.38brlcadcobbaut: pix-png is a brl-cad tool
23:35.31brlcadpix-png is the "official" answer fwiw, the pnm cat is just a nifty trick
23:58.56cobbautoops...ok
23:59.27brlcadthere are a slew of pix-* and *-pix tools
23:59.36brlcadfor converting to/from various formats
Jeff Waugh - find it at freshmeat.net! Modified by Tim Riker to work with blootbot logs, split per channel, etc. irclog2html for #brlcad on 20060226

irclog2html for #brlcad on 20060226

00:00.20brlcadpix-[tab][tab] in bash will give a list of exporters, drop of the - for a list of pix tools
00:00.29brlcads/of the/off the/
00:01.44cobbautyes, i just noticed...sorry for not trying the obvious :-/
00:03.19brlcadpix-fb will display then, -F/dev/Xl -w640 -n480, etc
00:03.28brlcader, s/then/them/
00:03.44brlcadshould be manpages for most/all of them
00:05.46cobbautit works! pix-png is easier than the echo hack ;-)
00:06.33cobbautany idea why the script i posted on the forum misplaces objects ?
00:06.54brlcadthe script didn't error for me
00:06.59brlcadwas it supposed to?
00:07.39cobbautit puts the 135degree wall in another place
00:08.04cobbauti can reproduce it with screenshots if you like
00:08.24brlcadah, no I'll take your word on it
00:08.34brlcadi presumed it was going to error, not simply work incorrectly
00:08.39cobbauti'm useing 7.6.4
00:08.49cobbautno, it doesn't error
00:13.00brlcadokie, i'll give it another try then
00:14.15pra5ad_sean
00:14.16pra5ad_u win?
00:18.44brlcadacross my weight class, yep
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01:18.36pra5ad_what was max?
01:18.50pra5ad_and win by how much?
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03:06.06``ErikO.o
04:10.48PrezKennedyo.0
04:25.30brlcad270, pretty sure I could have done 275
04:25.51brlcadthree others peaked at 265
04:27.59``Erikwhat kinda lift?
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05:50.43brlcadbench press
07:34.41birdmunis there life here?
08:02.00birdmun42?
08:09.49pra5ad_=)
08:13.41birdmunworth a shot
08:14.11birdmunso do you think i could find any help w/ brlcad this time of day?
08:15.08pra5ad_sometimes
08:15.18pra5ad_its 3am here
08:15.31birdmun2 here
08:15.38birdmunam
08:17.49pra5ad_*shrug*
08:19.08brlcadcrazy talk
08:19.17birdmuncrazy?
08:19.47brlcadthere's plenty of time to sleep when we're dead
08:20.06birdmuni did finally get a list of errors that doing a make in cygwin generates
08:20.40brlcaddid you add the LIBS and CFLAGS/CPPFLAGS to the X11 include dir?
08:21.07birdmunnot the c*flags no
08:22.11brlcadif I recall correctly, you had a /usr/X11R6
08:22.12birdmuni could send the email i drafted to send when i managed to catch you again
08:22.15birdmunyes
08:22.24brlcadrun a make clean
08:22.32brlcadthen can rerun configure
08:22.41brlcadwhat was your origianl configure line?
08:23.04birdmun./configure --without-opengl --enable-optimized
08:24.11brlcadmkay, so try ./configure --without-openGgl --enable-optimized CPPFLAGS=-I/usr/X11R6/include LIBS=-lX11 LDFLAGS=-L/usr/X11R6/lib
08:24.28brlcader, typo in there on openGgl, otherwise should be good
08:26.09birdmunso what do i read to learn what flags i should try
08:28.04brlcadah, and before you run configure, either run autogen.sh again or rm -rf *cache*
08:28.15birdmundoh
08:28.44brlcadthere shouldn't be any flags to add, though INSTALL and ./configure --help cover the options
08:28.53birdmunwell that configure only took 3 mins 11 secs
08:29.21brlcadyou shouldn't need to add those CPPFLAGS, LDFLAGS, LIBS lines.. something is wrong with the autoconf X11 detection that came with cygwin
08:29.37birdmunic
08:30.02birdmunrunning autogen.sh
08:30.15birdmunshouldnt take long no?
08:30.51birdmuni admit to not having spent much time installing software from source
08:33.02birdmunso i need to now use the long configure line or just try ./configure?
08:33.07brlcadgive that a run, leave a note how it went and I'll reply in a few hours :)
08:33.10brlcadthe long configure line
08:33.19birdmunalright
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09:22.37birdmunsorry brlcad Im off to bed I will let you know how it turns out later this morning
15:35.25birdmunwell I'm back ... it did make
15:35.25birdmunafter an hour :)
15:44.59``Erikheh
15:52.16birdmundont know how long after i started the make before it finished
15:59.52``Erikit should say after the build
16:00.12``Erikthere're timing scripts tied into the build system
16:02.54birdmunit did
16:03.00birdmun1 hr 9 mins
16:03.50birdmunwhat i meant to say was that after i went to bed i dont know how long it ran
16:04.09birdmunsounds like a fairly hardy system :P
16:04.36``Erikmy home box takes like 10 minutes, it's a 1.2ghz athlon
16:04.47birdmuni wonder if it wouldnt run faster in linux
16:04.50``Erikwinderz is horribly horribly slow at fork, and make is fork heavy
16:05.07``Erikbig builds in cygwin take forever... small ones, too :D
16:05.13birdmunmy sys is a 2.1g athlon gig of ram
16:05.51``Erikit pissed me off enough that several years ago, I set up a cross compiler on fbsd to generate mingw PE binaries (was working on a video game, had to support the winiots on the team)
16:07.56``Erik(on a fast forking operating system with like more than 500mhz speed, disk access should be the bottleneck...)
16:09.07``Erikheh
16:09.32birdmunforking i dont understand
16:10.03``Erikum, I think windows calls it something like ExecuteProcess
16:10.23birdmun*dumb look*
16:10.34birdmun*blank stare* even
16:10.42``Erikheh, it's not important
16:10.54``Erik"make" is very slow on windows
16:10.58``Erikthat's teh bottom line
16:11.01birdmunlol
16:11.27birdmunthe upside is it did complete
16:14.41birdmunafter rearranging the office and running make install it will be time to figure out how to use the software
16:15.33``Erik'mged' is the graphical thing, but there're like 400 and something command line tools, too
16:15.46``Erikthere's an introductory manual floating around, I believe
16:16.02birdmuni believe you are correct
16:17.37birdmunwell i need to get this office taken care of
16:19.22*** join/#brlcad cobbaut (n=paul@238-165.240.81.adsl.skynet.be)
16:48.56brlcadneeds to be an "intro to the whole package" tutorial, that talks about all the most useful tools
16:49.09brlcadmanual 1 just doesn't cut it
16:49.16brlcadand 2 just focuses on mged
16:54.02cobbautah, good evening...
16:54.31cobbauti don't know enough about brlcad to write a more complete tutorial :-(
17:00.17CIA-5BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/TODO: write an introduction to brl-cad document that overviews the primary tools and how they can be used together.
19:59.58justin_I just had the most ghetto idea for changing channels
20:00.11justin_use "eject" to bump the channel changer
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20:18.06brlcadheh
20:18.09brlcadthat's so bad
21:28.02birdmunmged is supposed to be in the /usr/brlcad/bin directory correct?
21:36.18brlcadyep
21:36.25brlcadalong with a lot of other apps
22:56.33``Erikcobbaut: if you started writing stuff, those of us with the knowledge but less free time would surely chime in and make suggestions/corrections
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Jeff Waugh - find it at freshmeat.net! Modified by Tim Riker to work with blootbot logs, split per channel, etc. irclog2html for #brlcad on 20060227

irclog2html for #brlcad on 20060227

00:08.29cobbautErik: i put a humble pdf on the sourceforge forum
00:09.23cobbautthis is the link http://cobbaut.be/byExample.pdf
00:09.59cobbautbut it is more a "by example", and not so much a tutorial, since i only know about 5 percent of brl-cad
00:10.17cobbautany suggestions are welcome...
00:10.55cobbautbut not now...it is time to go to bed (past 1 am here)
00:11.01cobbaut'nigth
00:24.09``Erikwhoa, cool
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02:04.27``Erik"oh, no one at the new yorker has an anus" heh
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02:56.20tegtmeyeanyone remember how to get the name of the appliation that is currently runnning? ie yourself
02:58.22brlcadargv[0]
03:00.39tegtmeyelol, besides that. I thought that there was a system call that would give you that
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03:02.13brlcaddepends how cross-platform you want to be
03:03.20brlcadiff your system supports getprogname(), you can use that -- you need to setprogname() unless you presume bsd-style behavior (where it's run automatically for you before main())
03:03.25tegtmeyevery. need it for a library that gcc calls
03:04.06brlcadthose two are basically equiv to writing your own little function that stashes the argv[0] value in a static/global
03:05.45tegtmeyeproblem is, I don't have access to the application source
03:06.24tegtmeyeso I can't stash argv[0], maybe I was thinking that getprogname was posix, been a long time...
03:07.29brlcadafaik, there's not a posix way to get at it
03:07.58brlcadyou don't have any access to the original argv?
03:11.44tegtmeyeno. I'm building a library that does some dynamic analysis. So the uses sets up some compiler switches in gcc and links this in.
03:12.45tegtmeyeSo, in general, I don;t have access to the source and I don't want to have them call mylib::init(argc,argv) or whatever
03:14.49brlcadyou can make your own routine that tries the various platform-specific ways
03:15.06brlcadthere's a win32 function, i'd have to look it up
03:15.33``Erik(define-syntax mycond (syntax-rules (else) ((_ (else a))    a) ((_ (p a))       (if p a)) ((_ (p a) r ...) (if p a (mycond r ...)))))
03:15.35``Eriksweet
03:17.01``Erikand, of course, the corellary... (define-syntax myif (syntax-rules () ((_ p t e) (cond (p t) (else e)))))
03:17.09tegtmeyeI thought there was a way to find out from the pid. The info has to be stored somewhere if 'ps' is getting it.
03:17.11``Erik*flex*
03:17.16``Erikgetpid()
03:17.34brlcadgetprogname'll work on all the bsd, getexecname() on solaris iirc, can query /proc on linux
03:17.48``Erikooh, heh
03:18.13brlcadi believe there is a global that glibc provides as well
03:18.41``Erikum, there was a path expansion function that you could feed argv[0] to I think, I don't recall the name
03:19.31brlcadprogram_invocation_short_name is one of the globals potentially available iirc
03:19.48tegtmeyehmmm...
03:23.32brlcad/proc/self/cmdline
03:25.36tegtmeyeno /proc on mac (assuming bsd as well)
03:30.04brlcadmac has getprogname
03:30.10brlcadthere's no single-shot answer
03:30.18brlcadi'm saying you can use the combination of them all
03:30.37brlcadthat should cover just about everyone
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03:39.55``Erikhrm, stat(NULL,&sb); does not give anything... useful.
03:40.12tegtmeyeis getprogname on Linux?
03:40.25tegtmeye-rather who doesn;t have it
03:41.03``Erikdlinfo on null might be handy
03:42.18brlcadgetprogname isn't on linux, it's bsd
03:43.01brlcadyou'd need configure tests for the various methods
03:43.13tegtmeyegetexecname on Linux?
03:43.20brlcadgetexecname on solaris :)
03:44.03brlcadprogram_invocation_short_name is provided by glibc
03:47.00tegtmeyecool, thanks...
03:47.32tegtmeye<poof>
04:01.05CIA-5BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/TODO: wrote a manpage for the benchmark tool. need to add the alternates to bu_getprogname, separate into new file too.
04:08.51CIA-5BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/bench/run.sh: doesn't test the compiler, tests a system
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04:27.54CIA-5BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/bench/benchmark.1: initial manual page, pulling content from the existing script contents and word-smithing some clean-up
04:29.58CIA-5BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/bench/Makefile.am: install and provide the new benchmark manpage
04:43.13CIA-5BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/mged/setup.c:
04:43.13CIA-5BRL-CAD: tried to move the PATH modifying block to after Tcl is initialized, but it still
04:43.13CIA-5BRL-CAD: seems to be causing problems for people compiling on ubuntu for some unknown
04:43.13CIA-5BRL-CAD: reason. disable the block for now until it can be investigated more fully,
04:43.13CIA-5BRL-CAD: maybe have to resort to a configure test.
05:05.28CIA-5BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/conv/g-dxf.c: add a comment about adding the fourth vertex for 3DFACES, massive ws cleanup/consistency
05:22.54CIA-5BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/conv/ (8 files): a variety of warning quellings, missing stdlib, calls to exit with a negative, ws.
05:23.37CIA-5BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/NEWS: jra fixed g-dxf compatibility export issue
05:24.15CIA-5BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/NEWS: added manpage for benchmark
05:52.54CIA-5BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/conv/ (10 files in 5 dirs): quell warnings, missing stdlib.h, calls to exit with a negative, ws.
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06:05.32birdmuni asked hours ago about where mged is ... problem is i dont see it in the usr/brlcad/bin dir
06:06.44pra5ad_did u make install?
06:09.11birdmunyes
06:09.34brlcadwhat's in your /usr/brlcad/bin dir?
06:09.41brlcadlot of binaries?
06:09.51pra5ad_yes
06:10.01birdmun189 exe files
06:10.07birdmun188
06:10.08brlcadeek
06:10.28brlcadshould be over 400
06:10.31birdmuni guess that means make install didnt work
06:10.33birdmun?
06:10.34brlcadhow'd you build?
06:10.41brlcadsounds like make install failed part way
06:10.50brlcador make failed, so make install failed
06:10.58birdmunmake finished
06:10.59pra5ad_is there a flag for ls that produces a filecount?
06:11.06pra5ad_or do i have to gawk
06:11.11brlcadls -la1 | wc
06:11.28pra5ad_351
06:11.41brlcadeh, that's not right either :P
06:11.44pra5ad_913
06:12.02brlcadnor is that
06:12.03pra5ad_woops
06:12.15pra5ad_434
06:12.24brlcadthat's more like it
06:12.40brlcad438 is current iirc
06:12.53birdmunafter the make worked properly i should be able to go back to the dir and just run make install yes?
06:12.56pra5ad_436
06:13.12brlcadsure, presuming make worked
06:13.19brlcadyou should be able to go back and run make again too
06:13.23brlcadand it should just iterate
06:14.25birdmunwhen make finished it listed how long it took to make ... i ran make benchmark ... i dont recall any errors there
06:14.44brlcadyes, but did make list any errors
06:15.25brlcadand did mged compile
06:15.31brlcadls -la src/mged/mged
06:16.11brlcadls -la src/mged/.libs/*mged*
06:16.31birdmunsrc should be in the usr/brlcad/ dir?
06:16.39brlcadno
06:17.19pra5ad_Components. American components, Russian components, ALL MADE IN TAIWAN!
06:17.29birdmunwell mged is listed in the src/mged/ dir
06:17.40brlcadarmageddon
06:17.59brlcadrussian space station cosmonaut
06:18.25pra5ad_i really enjoy stupid movies
06:18.59brlcadbirdmun: well that's a good sign at least
06:19.07brlcadso maybe make install is failing for some reason
06:19.08birdmuni have nothing listed in the .libs dir tho
06:19.21brlcadhmm
06:19.28brlcadwhat was the first ls -la output
06:20.39birdmun-rwxr-xr-x 1 birdmun None 15319388 Feb 26 03:38 src/mged/mged
06:20.54brlcadhmm, so it built it static
06:20.59brlcadis this cygwin?
06:21.01birdmunyes
06:21.04brlcadahh, right
06:21.11brlcadokay
06:21.18brlcadlibtoolism
06:21.51brlcadso try make install again, watch for errors
06:22.49birdmunk
06:25.39CIA-5BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/libdm/clip.c: revert the clipping plane modifications for now until they can be tested better
06:28.24birdmunnow i see an error ... no space left on device
06:28.38birdmunah ha
06:28.48birdmun10 meg free space left on that drive
06:29.01birdmunthere was 640 left hours ago
06:31.27brlcadheh
06:31.31brlcadyep
06:31.41brlcadbuilding the whole package static is going to be.. big
06:31.49brlcadprobably a gig
06:31.54birdmunnow he tells me
06:32.08brlcadmaybe not
06:32.13brlcadmaybe just a few hundred
06:32.23birdmunalready over 680
06:32.26brlcadbut you also have the build there, all the object files, libraries
06:34.25birdmuni cleared up some space and am trying again
06:34.29birdmun500 meg
06:53.37birdmunmake install finished w/o errors
06:54.40birdmuni have 434 files
06:55.18birdmun1.1 gig
06:55.58brlcadheh
06:56.01brlcadexcellent
06:56.33birdmunwell im heading to bed ... although it may or may not yet be working
07:02.32CIA-5BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/include/rle.h: include stdlib.h, quell warnings in libutahrle and elsewhere
07:10.12CIA-5BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/libbu/association.c: need stdlib.h for exit()
07:17.46CIA-5BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/libbu/bomb.c: need stdlib.h for exit(), flush streams before abort.
07:20.10CIA-5BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/libbu/color.c: include stdlib.h anyways, but change the exit to a bu_bomb
07:25.44CIA-5BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/libbu/fopen_uniq.c: stdlib.h for exit()
07:43.21CIA-5BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/libbu/ (10 files): quell warnings, need stdlib.h for exit routines
07:44.42CIA-5BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/libbn/bn_tcl.c: common file size is unsigned
07:50.40CIA-5BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/libbn/vert_tree.c: bomb instead of exiting while processing the vertex nodes
07:54.02CIA-5BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/librt/g_rpc.c: no need to test for null, libbu memory management guarantees non-null -- include stdlib.h anyways
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08:20.43CIA-5BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/librt/ (12 files): stdlib.h warning quelling, conversions to bu_bomb instead of aborting
08:32.25CIA-5BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/libfb/ (if_debug.c if_null.c if_remote.c): stdlib.h warning quelling
08:34.58CIA-5BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/liboptical/ (sh_billboard.c sh_fbm.c sh_xxx.c): stdlib.h warning quelling
09:11.01CIA-5BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/ (fbserv/fbserv.c rt/main.c): stdlib.h warning quelling
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10:09.11CIA-5BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/ (60 files in 16 dirs): stdlib.h and exit()
10:25.09CIA-5BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/liboptical/sh_billboard.c: unsigned long image lengths, quell warnings when passing to sizing funcs
10:25.16CIA-5BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/liboptical/sh_fbm.c: need string.h for memcpy
10:33.45CIA-5BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/lgt/lgt.c: unbreak lgt, #endif left in the wrong place. nix the TRUE/FALSE stuff while we're in here too
10:38.02CIA-5BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/fbserv/fbserv.c: delint the socklent
12:07.11cobbautthx ``Erik
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22:10.57Loeshi
22:19.33Loescan anyone tell me how (or where) to start with brlcad?
22:27.05brlcadLoes: howdy and yes
22:27.20brlcadhttp://brlcad.org, Documents section, docs 1 and 2
22:27.42brlcadrun mged on the command line to get started with the gui modeler, though there is a lot more to it
22:29.00Loesi will try that, found out the installation didn't work
22:30.02brlcadoh?
22:30.24Loesi'm new to linux
22:30.41Loesi tried it on my mac
22:30.51Loesthere it worked
22:31.15Loesjust going to try again :)
22:31.51brlcadokie dokie
22:41.07Loescompiling from source isn't working
22:41.35Loesif I download the binaries, do I have to put them somewhere specific?
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22:48.37``Erikconvention seems to be /usr/brlcad
22:52.01Loesit's working! :)
22:53.09``Erikswank
23:20.31Loesis it possible to make a 2D drawing from a 3D object?
23:22.16``Erikfundamentally, it's a trivial operation... I d'no if brlcad has the intrinsics, tho
23:22.55``Erikum, actually
23:22.58``Erikthere's an app that does it
23:23.05``Erik"line drawing", uhhh, ron wrote it I think
23:23.14LoesI saw there is a possibility, but I'm looking for something where I can add dimensions and comments afterward
23:23.24``Erikrtedge
23:29.34brlcadheh
23:29.38brlcadthat took a while
23:29.44``Erik?
23:29.51brlcadrtwizard too, for more complex imagery
23:30.08brlcadtook a while to remember "rtedge"
23:30.20``ErikI had to look in the bin dir until I spotted it :(
23:30.50brlcadLoes: there's not an automatic means to add dimensions yet, there's a tool planned for that though -- for now, that's more easily handled in an image processing application
23:31.09``Erikdude, all I did was rewrite the build system before I got shovelled to another project, I know very little about the sw... heh
23:31.57LoesI see you can export it to other formats
23:32.03brlcadtsk tsk
23:32.28brlcadyes, there a 3d export and 2d export formats with various implications
23:33.15Loesso I could export it to f.e. autocad, which has that feature
23:36.18brlcadthat you theoretically could
23:37.34Loesall I'm looking for, is a program that can replace solid edge/autocad etc
23:37.51Loesdo you think brlcad can doo that?
23:38.35Loesor is it designed for other purposes?
23:38.55brlcadfyi, there are certain versions of autocad that don't parse their own format according to their own specification, our next release will work around it and output something more flexible to their parsers
23:39.08brlcadit can, depends entirely on the purpose
23:39.27Loesi'm a student mechanical engineering
23:39.33brlcadthe primary history/focus of the package of the years was solid modeling for the purpose of performing analysis/simulations
23:39.51Loesand i'm using mac, so it's very hard to find 3d software for that
23:40.10brlcadwe've got quite a mech-e following
23:40.29brlcadbrl-cad's not a good drafter, ala autocad
23:40.31Loesi must say, your program looks good
23:40.47Loes(not easy though :) )
23:40.52brlcadhence limited 2d drafting support, parametrics, dimensions, etc
23:41.10brlcadotherwise, it is a full-fledged solid modeling system, mature and in production use
23:41.33brlcadand it's open source and free as in beer and speech
23:41.50Loesindeed
23:41.58Loesthat's nice (for a student)
23:41.59brlcadso anyone can help improve it, become one of the devs
23:42.38brlcadit's ideal for certain students, imo -- i would have loved having it as a base for my computer graphics and vision work in college
23:42.56brlcadeven single processing
Jeff Waugh - find it at freshmeat.net! Modified by Tim Riker to work with blootbot logs, split per channel, etc. irclog2html for #brlcad on 20060228

irclog2html for #brlcad on 20060228

00:47.45pra5ad_lol brlcad
00:48.10pra5ad_i sent in my report to the prof last week
00:48.22pra5ad_he sends it to APL's computational geometry guy
00:48.45pra5ad_no word from him since (apparently he was very interested)
00:49.06pra5ad_heh i'll probably see a paper on it in a couple of months
01:04.22*** join/#brlcad tegtmeye (n=tegtmeye@pool-71-248-94-28.bltmmd.east.verizon.net)
01:18.13tegtmeyebrlcad, you around?
01:21.33pra5ad_.. amazon is great
01:21.41pra5ad_Women's Sampler
01:21.41pra5ad_Average Customer Review:
01:21.41pra5ad_Release Date: February 23, 2006
01:21.41pra5ad_Our Price: $25.00  
01:21.41pra5ad_I Own It   Not interested   Rate it
01:21.42pra5ad_<PROTECTED>
01:22.04pra5ad_so i can have a facial while playing gta
01:22.46*** join/#brlcad cobbaut (n=paul@238-165.240.81.adsl.skynet.be)
01:23.37tegtmeyegot my book today from amazon.co.uk
01:23.49tegtmeyesaved 28$ over amazon.com
01:23.53pra5ad_what book
01:24.03tegtmeyedino OS book
01:24.06tegtmeyefor school
01:24.20pra5ad_what school
01:24.27tegtmeyeUD
01:24.32pra5ad_phd?
01:24.38tegtmeyemaybe:)
01:25.03tegtmeyeyou should look into it.
01:25.16tegtmeyeCheaper than used here in the US
01:25.30pra5ad_hmm
01:25.32tegtmeyeeven after shipping
01:26.21pra5ad_er
01:26.36pra5ad_TNG complete: 450 pounds vs $385
01:26.54tegtmeyeTNG?
01:27.39pra5ad_star trek: the next generation
01:27.59tegtmeyeah
01:28.29pra5ad_perhaps i have special credit at .com
01:28.44tegtmeyecan anyone tell me how to set -D options from the configure invoction?
01:28.58tegtmeyewithout hacking the config.h.in?
01:31.12docelictegtmeye, CFLAGS="-Dsomething" ./configure
01:31.57docelicThe actual variable might be named CFLAGS, CPPFLAGS or CXXFLAGS, depending on a few things, but you can set all thre
01:32.01docelicthree*
01:34.18tegtmeyeI thought there was a DEFS variable?
01:38.05docelicWell, maybe there is, but my instructions are generic, and work unless ./configure is custom-hacked
01:44.44tegtmeyethanks, I'm aware of how to set the flags but that isn't what I'm really looking for
01:46.35brlcadpra5ad_: cool, hopefully something interesting can come of it, tegtmeye: yep
01:47.21brlcaddefines would be a preprocessor, hence CPPFLAGS
01:47.54brlcadbrl-cad's configure also provides a --with-cppflags set of options too
01:49.34tegtmeyeI thought that --with-... was supossed to be for including external packages;)
01:50.35tegtmeyeDo you loose the DEFS variable when setting AC_CONFIG_HEADERS?
01:50.36brlcadyou can indirectly include external packages using those --with-*flags options :)
01:51.01tegtmeyenah, just quoting the gcc docs for ARG_WITH
01:51.07brlcadi know
01:51.25brlcadi'm saying, you could twist only slightly and it still "complies"
01:51.44brlcadthe --with options usually just set cflags/cppflags/ldflags, etc anyways too
01:52.03brlcadit's reaching, but it works
01:52.19brlcadmainly for folks that don't understand the somewhat opaque --help blather
01:54.55tegtmeyee> Do you loose the DEFS variable when setting AC_CONFIG_HEADERS?
01:56.35brlcaddo you lose it?
01:56.39brlcadno, not really
01:56.50brlcadbut it changes to just -DHAVE_CONFIG_H
01:59.17tegtmeyeah... the docs seem to gloss over this a little... I guess because no one uses it for the most part.
01:59.19tegtmeyethanks
02:01.18brlcadyou don't generally use it directly
02:01.22brlcadautomake uses it
02:02.19tegtmeyeI know, issue is, config.h will override CFLAGS if you are trying to just override a default
02:02.23brlcadautoconf sets it to either all the defines or to the have_config_h define, automake just passes it along as a cppflag append
02:02.58brlcadoverride a default?
02:03.01brlcadlike -O2 -g ?
02:03.15tegtmeyeand when I tried to #ifdef... in config.h.in, AC_DEFINE... gets lost
02:03.17tegtmeyeno
02:03.29tegtmeyeeg
02:03.39brlcadconfig.h.in gets blown away
02:03.45tegtmeyeI know
02:04.35tegtmeyeyou want a user selectable offset value for some foo your adding to the stack (not important)...
02:04.58tegtmeyebut you want to provide a reasonable default value that you have to reference in the code
02:05.40tegtmeyeit isn't somethign that is necessarly going to change at runtime
02:05.49tegtmeyebut
02:06.01tegtmeyeit needs to be user selectable at configure
02:06.23tegtmeyecurrently have --with-whatever options but seems kinda crufty
02:06.43tegtmeyebe nice to just do
02:06.55tegtmeye./configure -DSTACK_OFFSET=blah
02:07.19brlcad./configure CPPFLAGS=-DSTACK_OFFSET=blah
02:07.26tegtmeye_but_
02:07.39brlcadit you do your configure.ac right, that should work
02:07.41tegtmeyethere has to be a default value
02:07.51tegtmeyeif it isn;t given
02:09.17*** join/#brlcad cobbaut_ (n=paul@28.92-200-80.adsl.skynet.be)
02:10.07tegtmeyewhich is why I was looking for DEFS
02:10.19brlcadthat's pretty easy, that's just a matter of tossing in a #ifndef into config.h
02:10.51brlcadyou're limiting yourself to a version of autoheader written in the last five years or so, but .. it should work
02:11.07tegtmeyeI tried taht but AC_DEFINE choked, maybe I'm missing something?
02:11.17brlcadah
02:11.29brlcadac_def is just to define something
02:11.37brlcadnot add random foo into the header
02:11.50brlcadyou want ah_verbatim
02:11.51tegtmeyego on...
02:12.02brlcadiirc
02:12.33brlcadAH_VERBATIM([STACK_OFFSET], [
02:12.41brlcad#ifndef STACK_OFFSET
02:12.50brlcad#  define STACK_OFFSET -1
02:12.53brlcad#endif
02:12.54brlcad})
02:13.02brlcadsans typo
02:13.29tegtmeyehmmm... missed that, in autoheader docs I guess then?
02:14.04brlcadautoconf docs mention it
02:14.22brlcadhttp://www.delorie.com/gnu/docs/autoconf/autoconf_30.html
02:14.24tegtmeyejust going to say.. plain missed that...:)
04:41.21*** join/#brlcad DTRemenak (n=DTRemena@c-67-187-164-66.hsd1.ca.comcast.net)
04:49.00*** join/#brlcad Twingy (n=justin@c-68-33-163-43.hsd1.md.comcast.net)
04:53.06pra5ad_ibot, time
04:53.07ibot2006.02.28  4:53:07 GMT
04:53.17pra5ad_ibot, time est
04:53.27pra5ad_well then
04:59.14Twingyfileserver is up
05:16.18pra5ad_whats in it
05:43.56pra5ad_ibot, time est
05:44.05pra5ad_useless
05:44.07pra5ad_ibot, time
05:44.08ibotYou are educated stupid and therefore too dumb to understand nature's perfect time cube! (2006.02.28  5:44:08 GMT)
06:47.30*** join/#brlcad DTRemenak (n=DTRemena@c-67-187-164-66.hsd1.ca.comcast.net)
09:28.03*** join/#brlcad clock_ (n=clock@zux221-122-143.adsl.green.ch)
11:07.33*** join/#brlcad cobbaut (n=paul@28.92-200-80.adsl.skynet.be)
11:25.19*** join/#brlcad cobbaut (n=paul@28.92-200-80.adsl.skynet.be)
12:49.38*** join/#brlcad grumbel (n=grumbel@i5387D6D3.versanet.de)
18:24.47*** join/#brlcad cad370 (n=8d964b43@bz.bzflag.bz)
20:32.45*** join/#brlcad pier (n=pier@151.56.245.72)
20:49.22*** join/#brlcad IngMan (n=a8b0a00f@bz.bzflag.bz)
20:50.13IngManHi
20:54.39IngManhow make gears
21:00.40piertried to draw one out this afternoon
21:01.16pierbut making a sketch turned out being very tricky
23:55.05*** join/#brlcad PrezKennedy (n=Apathy@c-68-33-243-45.hsd1.md.comcast.net)
Jeff Waugh - find it at freshmeat.net! Modified by Tim Riker to work with blootbot logs, split per channel, etc. irclog2html for #brlcad on 20060301

irclog2html for #brlcad on 20060301

00:18.56*** join/#brlcad learner (n=brlcad@pdpc/supporter/silver/brlcad)
00:18.56*** mode/#brlcad [+o learner] by ChanServ
00:31.11Twingymill arrived
00:32.07archivistmill=milling machine?
00:32.50Twingyyep
00:33.24Twingycnc too
00:33.34archivistnice
00:34.08archivistwe have a toy(educational) one here at work
00:34.28Twingywhat brand?
00:34.35archivistboxford
00:34.39Twingyah
00:34.49Twingymine is a taig with the xlyotex steppers
00:34.53archivistenglish
00:36.48archivistcad>dxf>cnc is fun
00:40.53archivistwith the occasional tool breakage
00:41.47TwingyI'm making my own tool path editor
00:44.53archivistdont let the tool dwell on path changes as the boxford does, tool spring etc leaves horrid marks
00:45.06``ErikO.o
00:45.49Twingyerik is a tool
00:46.04Twingyand leaves horrid marks
00:46.09``Erikon your MOM
00:46.10``ErikO.o
00:46.12Twingywith his tar irn'
00:46.16``Erikheh, wow, I feel like I'm in fifth grade
00:46.34``Erikit's a tar arn, tyvm
00:46.35TwingyDEY TUK R JBS!@
00:47.00``Erikso you got the mill today, I presume?
00:47.05Twingyyes
00:47.09``Erik<-- scrolls up
00:47.11``Erikhurrrrrr
00:47.12TwingyI just unboxed it
00:47.15``Erikswank
00:47.18``Eriktiny, ain't it?
00:47.25TwingyI'm feeling rather lethargic so it's just sitting there
00:47.29``Erikgonna put the c&c bits on tonight?
00:47.29``Erikah
00:47.29Twingyyep
00:47.36Twingyit's very cute $1800 toy
00:47.42Twingynope
00:47.51``Erikthe c&c motors will move without the main motor running, right?
00:48.16TwingyTekrad what hex numbers are \r and \n
00:48.16TwingyTopangea :-D
00:48.17TwingyTopangea 0x13  I think is \n
00:48.19TwingyKostiX i bet avr is alike in some stuff
00:48.21TwingyTwingy "man ascii"
00:48.23TwingyTopangea \r might be 0x14 or something..I don't remember
00:48.25Twingy_Q \r == 0x0D
00:48.27TwingyTopangea or maybe \r is
00:48.35``Erikso you can wrap some paper around a 2x4, stick a pencil in the chuck, and try to program it to draw things to debug/test?
00:48.36Twingyyep
00:49.02Twingyheh I guess, but that's too much trouble
00:49.04``Erikopposed to cutting up wood or cheap aluminum stock o.O
00:49.14TwingyI don't need to cut anything
00:49.15``Erikdo you have a micrometer?
00:49.20Twingymeh
00:49.23Twingyeyeball it y0
00:49.27``Erikheh
00:49.48``ErikI don't trust your eyes to measure ten thousandths :D
00:49.51Twingymeasure once, cut twice
00:50.34TwingyI'll know shortly if this junk works
00:50.38``Erikswank
00:50.40Twingystreaming tv
00:50.56Twingymuch more interesting to me right now
00:50.57``Erikyou should try hand milling some basic things out of aluminum stock, imho
00:51.13``Erikjust to find the right spot where c&c becomes worth it
00:51.13Twingygo buy me a mill with hand cranks then
00:51.20``Erikuh, yours doesn't have 'em?
00:51.27Twingyuh, cnc motors duh?
00:51.38Twingyyou use one or the other
00:51.42``Erikhrm, I've seen systems that have both...
00:51.43archivistpress da buttons then
00:51.44``Erik*shrug*
00:52.01``Erik<-- actually liked milling by hand, it was theraputic or something
00:52.05``Eriklathing, too
00:52.05Twingyyou're taking more interest in this than I am :)
00:52.19brlcadup up down down left right left right a b a b [return]
00:52.33Twingykonami codes *grunt grunt grunt*
00:52.41``Erikwell, shit, bitch, you're talkin' about serious nostolgia stuff for me... :D 15 years ago, I was trying to figure out if that's what I wanted to do with my life
00:52.42Twingyba ba select start
00:53.01Twingyguess you chose poorly
00:53.04Twingy*duck*
00:53.05brlcadheh
00:53.24``Erikdamn I feel old
00:53.50``Erik<-- still highly amused by prasads reaction at finding out how old he is :D
00:53.50Twingyyou're going to be one of the bobs
00:54.05``Eriktwinky, you have a real go getter attitude
00:54.12``ErikI'm going to recommend that we promote you to mgmt
00:54.24Twingycool, then I can fire your ass :)
00:54.26``Erik<-- ducks to avoid the backhand
00:54.26``Erik:D
00:55.26Twingyforizzle
00:55.54``Erikman, I installed gnucash on my fbsd7 box, and the fucking pos segfaults on certain chart related functions :(
00:56.17``Eriksean, shouldn't you be prepping a bz release?
00:56.18Twingyhow do you feed configure arguments when it's in a port
00:56.18brlcadwhat you get for trying to manage your finances
00:56.23brlcadgotta just let em run free
00:56.23``Erikindeed
00:56.26``Erikheh
00:56.34``Erikuh, I have responsibilities
00:56.43``ErikI'm a "provider" now
00:56.45Twingybeer + car?
00:56.51``Erikwell, a lot less beer
00:56.52``Erikbut that car, yes
00:56.58``Erikjason had a brat, I had a beast
00:56.59``Erik:D
00:57.04brlcadyou were sober enough to knock someone up?
00:57.14Twingy*psst* I think he knocked his car up
00:57.25brlcadhe was doing something to it..
00:57.40``Erikheh, uh, she dumped me on friday, and was on the pill, haven't tagged any tail since :)
00:57.45``ErikI buffed it good
00:57.48``Erikpolished the curves
00:57.49``Erikaw yeah
00:57.54``Erikgot up in the tail pipes, even :o
00:57.58*** join/#brlcad PrezKennedy (n=Apathy@c-68-33-243-45.hsd1.md.comcast.net)
00:58.00Twingylook you scared chucks son off
00:58.07``Erikhehehehe
00:58.27Twingyhow do you feed configure args from in the port?
00:58.40Twingywithout going into the work dir
00:58.50Twingyor izzat the preferred method?
00:58.53``Erikum, the port might have knobs, grep for \..*if
00:59.00``Erikif it doesn't, you can do something like
00:59.03PrezKennedyyou spoke too soon!
00:59.09``Erikmake CONFIGURE_ARGS=--enable-wozzle
00:59.11``Erikiirc
00:59.21PrezKennedydarn xchat and its crashing...
00:59.26``ErikBitchX-1.1-final+ by panasync - FreeBSD 6.0-STABLE
01:00.49Twingynah
01:00.53PrezKennedybazing
01:00.56Twingyyou just need to write a raytracer
01:01.03``Erikuh, right, ...
01:01.14Twingymy raytracer gets all the girlz
01:01.17``Erikand how much tail have you gotten since hurley burley?
01:01.20``Eriknone? thought so :)
01:02.14Twingycool, mplayer picked up live lib
01:02.21PrezKennedyspeaking of myspace stalkers...  i knew a guy at UMBC who raped and killed a girl he met on myspace
01:02.32``Erikcharming
01:02.38PrezKennedyindeed
01:02.55``Erikbut if she was legal, it's not newsworthy. The story of the day is statuatory rape.
01:03.01``Erikso says smacksnot.
01:03.19Twingyforizzle
01:03.46TwingyI do it for the druuuuugs
01:03.59``Erikhehehehe... towlie... :D
01:04.07``Erikremember to bring a towel!... wanna get high?
01:04.28TwingyI get high on lee's farts
01:04.38``Eriky'know, I totally missed the h2g2 connection there until today after lunch...
01:04.41``Erik<-- slow
01:04.57``Erikoh, man, if I could set the topic...
01:05.07PrezKennedyTwingy is using designer drugs
01:05.08TwingyI had a connection to h2g2?  netstat didn't say anything
01:05.27``Erik:o it didn't? that SLUT!
01:05.39Twingythat's no way to speak about PrezKennedy
01:06.03PrezKennedy:'(
01:06.11PrezKennedyi thought you cared!!!
01:06.12TwingyI found a use for an apple hockey puck today
01:06.24``Erikplaying hockey with our canuckian friends?
01:06.42Twingydo I look like some kinda fucking care bear?
01:06.47``ErikI don't like the hockey puck, but I do like the big pill
01:07.05Twingyif I were care bear I'd be the one that drinks heavily and poops on children
01:07.22Twingycan't remember the name of that one
01:07.30brlcadhahaha, damn that's good stuff..  http://brandnew.pbwiki.com/f/0000ckza.gif
01:07.31PrezKennedyAlcoholism bear?
01:07.37``Erikparty bear
01:07.40``Erik"cool bear"
01:07.40Twingyyes, that's it
01:07.50Twingyand milton would be gay bear
01:08.03``Erikum, except it's spelled "intarweb"
01:08.04Twingyhaha
01:08.21PrezKennedyits spell Teh Intraweb!
01:08.32``Erik*ghuh* should milton hop on irc and join #bearcave ?
01:08.46Twingyhe might flood himself off the channel
01:08.56PrezKennedyno... i think not... not checking out that channel
01:08.57Twingythat would imply you're already on the channel erik?
01:09.14``Erikno, I'm afraid I wasn't qualified :(
01:09.22``Erik<-- not fat enough, not hairy enough, and not gay enough
01:09.34Twingyhis laptop is fruity
01:09.47TwingyI was watching sean unbreak it all day
01:09.57Twingyhe stops in every 5 minutes to see if it's fixed
01:09.58``Erikthat old tibook?
01:10.00Twingyyea
01:10.15``ErikI thought an order was put in for new macbook pros?
01:10.27TwingyI think we should just give him that xserver in the machine room
01:10.36``Erikif it weren't for some minor screen damage, I think this g4 lappie would be perfect for a few yrs yet
01:10.41Twingyyea, we'll get those as a retirement gift
01:10.59Twingyyou spill another beer?
01:11.03``Erik<-- not entirely sold on an xserve
01:11.10``Erikapple martini... and I blame you, beeyotch
01:11.11``Erik:D
01:11.12Twingynot even the cardboard kind?
01:11.19``Erikwell, teh cardboard one, sure
01:11.21Twingyheh, I had a few of those ove rthe weekend
01:11.42``Erikbut I think if you factor in things like admin time and cost of downtime, scsi is still the winnar in the server room
01:11.56TwingyI think cardboard hard drives trump all
01:12.01``ErikI threw the idea out to a group of top tier admins, got a chunk of "yeah, what he said"
01:12.14PrezKennedygovt top tier?
01:12.18``Erik<-- thinks sata is great at replacing pata, but it aint' up to scsi raid
01:12.26``Erikno, industry, people who have clues and make good decisions
01:12.58PrezKennedythe first bad decision govt people make... is to join the govt
01:13.14``Erikmeh, it depends on the persons goal
01:13.29``Erikthe job stability is... not neglegible.
01:13.49``Erik<-- been canned a couple times, it can happen out of teh blue and for no good reason
01:13.55Twingyhrm
01:13.59``ErikI mean, I didn't even take down an entire network at a large isp or anything
01:14.03``Erik:}
01:14.12PrezKennedyhahaha
01:14.42Twingymeh
01:14.51``Erik(dynsol was due to attricion, fedex was due to petty politics)
01:15.08Twingyfedex has a good commercial
01:15.09``Erikattrition
01:15.13Twingywith cavemen
01:16.07``Erikhehehe, the fedex political bullshit also caused most of their top shelf minds to leave for companies like google :)
01:16.18``Erikso I don't feel too awfully bad about all that
01:17.38``Erikhttp://www.koransky.com/Other/Teletubbies.jpg
01:18.36Twingychecking for lt_dlopen in -lltdl... no
01:18.45Twingyhrm, /usr/local/share/libtool15
01:18.54Twingytried symlinking libtool15 to libtool, still aint findin' it
01:20.04``Erikthere's a handful of shit that has to be linked... ls /usr/local/bin/*15 might be a good starting point
01:20.14Twingyaight
01:20.51Twingy253* too
01:20.55``Erikthat's one thing that pisses me off about fbsd... the peckers maintaining the ports wont' write the scripts to figure out how to link up expected names
01:21.10``Erikyeah, if that's the version you use... I use libtool15, automake19, and autoconf259, usually
01:21.12brlcaddevel/libltdl15
01:21.29brlcadtis a separate port lib
01:21.39Twingyah
01:21.45``Erikfind /usr/local/bin -type s    <-- on one of the fbsd boxen I rigged up shows some of the stupid
01:21.54``Erikmeh
01:22.20brlcadie shoulda been a dep for whatever you're building but aparently aint
01:22.38``Erikyou making a port of that program, justin?
01:22.56Twingynope
01:22.59Twingygotta get it working first
01:23.08brlcadah
01:23.21Twingymplayer is having trouble finding stream, with live.com support it gets further
01:23.35TwingyI think the rtsp://<localhost>:8554/ actually needs something after the slash
01:24.04Twingydamn
01:24.14Twingystill missing ltdl for nemesi, the client for fenice
01:24.38Twingy/usr/local/share/libtool15/libltdl
01:25.08TwingyAC_CHECK_LIB(ltdl,lt_dlopen,,\
01:25.15Twingyhrmm
01:25.18brlcad<PROTECTED>
01:25.48brlcadoh, what video device is that capturing?
01:26.18brlcader, what capture device did you get?
01:26.52Twingybktr0
01:27.04TwingyFailed to get a SDP description from URL "rtsp://192.168.1.1:8554/live": cannot handle DESCRIBE response: RTSP/1.0 415 Unsupported Media Type
01:27.10TwingyI don't think the stream has a name
01:29.49Twingyhrm, file...
01:32.18brlcadlooks interesting http://freebsd.ricin.com/kbtv/
01:32.30brlcadhas a channel changer
01:32.44Twingyfxtv does as well
01:32.57Twingyplus capture stuff
01:34.56Twingyah
01:41.00*** join/#brlcad tegtmeye (n=tegtmeye@pool-71-248-94-28.bltmmd.east.verizon.net)
01:41.10``Erikhttp://qdb.us/56099
01:41.14Twingythe mill arrived mike
01:41.16``Erikhttp://qdb.us/56011
01:41.21tegtmeyesweet!
01:41.27tegtmeyeand???
01:41.47Twingyit's very mill'ish
01:41.52``Erikhttp://qdb.us/56019
01:41.52tegtmeyelol
01:42.04Twingymplayer is borked
01:42.05tegtmeyeall that youhoped for?
01:42.15TwingyI'm working on rtsp stuff
01:42.23tegtmeyeah
01:42.50tegtmeyeI expected you to mill up a soda can out of recycled soda cans by now
01:43.31Twingyhrm, libltdl is sitting in /usr/local/lib
01:45.19Twingyah
01:45.23Twingyfixed their configure script
01:46.17TwingyI might build the mill later tonight or tomorrow
01:47.06tegtmeyehow much "some assembly necessary"?
01:47.19Twingylike 4 parts
01:47.29Twingyand then cnc portion
01:47.35Twingyanother 4 parts
01:48.07tegtmeyegcc 4.1 released today...
01:48.15tegtmeyeif anyone cares
01:48.34``Erikdoes it still have the fuckups of the beta? o.O
01:49.30tegtmeyenot sure, testing now...
02:33.20Twingyurf, so much breakage
02:33.49pra5ad_does mplayer work at all w/ nvidia drivers?
02:33.55Twingyyea
02:34.08pra5ad_special compile flags?
02:34.11pra5ad_er conf
02:34.14Twingynewp
02:34.17pra5ad_wtf
02:34.19pra5ad_=(
02:34.33Twingynever had a problem on loonix or freebsd
02:34.43pra5ad_from src?
02:34.45pra5ad_or binary
02:34.53TwingyI compile out of ports
02:34.59pra5ad_oh
02:35.14pra5ad_ubuntu has no mplayer package
03:59.05pra5ad_woot mplayer is working
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14:34.41cobbauthi, i see on sf.net that 7.6.8 is released, but i don't see it with the downloads...
15:05.14brlcadcobbaut: yeah, jumped the gun by a few hours on the posting.. trouble uploading the tarball
15:05.32brlcadit'll be up in a few hours
15:52.13``Erikheh
16:05.08MaloeranYou may as well grab the cvs I suppose
16:05.22``Erikheh, is cvs unbroken now? :D
16:06.11MaloeranSourceforge sure seems to have recurrent problems with cvs
16:06.47``ErikI meant the code in it, supposedly there were some fresh bugs in librt or something :)
16:07.02MaloeranAh :)
16:49.41brlcadcvs head isn't reliable at the moment, rel-7-6-branch if you want reliable
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20:06.23IngManHi Brlcad
20:09.40IngManFor day I have been having the same doubt:  How make  gears
20:18.02IngManHow make  gears
20:40.30IngManHi
20:47.46IngManexit
21:06.24MaloeranThat was... coherent
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23:12.56``Erikspam spam spam and egg salad.
23:18.41archivistI saw that first time around (shows my age)
23:24.01``Erikwas that '76 or '77?
23:24.11``Erik:)
23:24.21brlcadmm.. sounds yummy
23:25.00``Erik(well, my parents carried me there ;)
23:25.55archivistmaybe earlier than 76 cant remember
23:26.45``Erikopengl.org pisses me off by not posting more pics by the stories... I use the pictures to see if new shit is listed :(
23:28.29archivist1969-1974
23:29.10``Erikah, heh, my bad
23:29.14archivistso i was 17 when it started
23:29.18``Erik76-77 must've been in the movie phase
23:29.56``Erik<-- needs to buy the dvd's of the flying circuis and 4 movies... has the latest 'compilation' dvd's
23:33.42``Erikheh, he has to wire in the cnc motors, then write control software
23:34.36``Erikmebbe tomorrow afternoon, he'll have a psuedorocket
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Jeff Waugh - find it at freshmeat.net! Modified by Tim Riker to work with blootbot logs, split per channel, etc. irclog2html for #brlcad on 20060304

irclog2html for #brlcad on 20060304

00:10.54*** join/#brlcad ibot (i=ibot@pdpc/supporter/active/TimRiker/bot/apt)
00:10.55*** topic/#brlcad is http://brlcad.org/ || BRL-CAD is now Free Software! || BRL-CAD Windows port has been merged to HEAD, not yet stable yet || Archer is now on HEAD as well, kick the tires, report any bugs || there WILL be a 7.6.8 released ASAP for January after all
00:17.26brlcadfor when ingman returns, http://ftp.brlcad.org/tmp/gear/
00:19.15archivistok there was someone else as well
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04:42.09TwingyI need more endmills
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05:13.02*** topic/#brlcad is http://brlcad.org/ || BRL-CAD is now Free Software! || BRL-CAD Windows port has been merged to HEAD, not yet stable yet || Archer is now on HEAD as well, kick the tires, report any bugs || there WILL be a 7.6.8 released ASAP for January after all
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07:27.04birdmunTwingy busy?
07:33.04*** join/#brlcad ibot (i=ibot@pdpc/supporter/active/TimRiker/bot/apt)
07:33.04*** topic/#brlcad is http://brlcad.org/ || BRL-CAD is now Free Software! || BRL-CAD Windows port has been merged to HEAD, not yet stable yet || Archer is now on HEAD as well, kick the tires, report any bugs || there WILL be a 7.6.8 released ASAP for January after all
07:33.32birdmunI will take the lack of response as a yes
08:41.44clock_Is US implementing a second Soviet Union? http://assembly.coe.int/Documents/AdoptedText/TA05/ERES1433.htm
08:45.19clock_"United States Government has betrayed its own highest principles", "cruel, inhuman or degrading treatment occurring as a direct result of official policy, authorised at the very highest levels of government", "ill-treatment amounting to torture which has occurred systematically and with the knowledge and complicity of the United States Government", "the United States has engaged in the unlawful practice of secret detention"
08:45.29clock_And that's an official resolution of the European Perliament!
09:25.54birdmuni didnt vote for the guy runnin this place
09:35.39clock_After this I am seriously considering boycotting US products
09:35.52clock_I will maybe buy Swiss Nidecker snowboard instead of a Burton.
09:45.11birdmuni will hold no ill will toward you
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15:28.11MaloeranThe Soviet Union was trying to free humanity of religions, though I wouldn't agree on the methods. The theocracy aspect scares me much more...
15:29.04``Erikheh
15:29.09``Erikindeed
15:29.37``Erikbushism is closer to medeival fuedalism than communism or marxism (or stalinism, or maoism)
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16:21.12whitehawkhi
16:21.21brlcadhowdy
16:21.34whitehawkwhere is 7.6.8?
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16:21.40whitehawkI don't seem to find it
16:21.47whitehawkonly the release info
16:21.55brlcadissue with the upload, should be up soon
16:24.14brlcadmostly minor updates since 7.6.6
16:25.23whitehawkAs I remember I couldn't compile 7.6.6 for my amd64
16:37.37brlcadwhitehawk: what is/was the error?  shouldn't be hard to get it compiling
16:47.03whitehawkdon't remember
16:47.13whitehawkI was told it is already fixed in cvs..
16:47.44whitehawkI think some header file
16:53.50whitehawktcl tk is a must?
17:02.36brlcadis a must, although brl-cad provides it for you
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18:49.15pra5adquarter century
18:54.17archivistis that all
18:55.36pra5adu old fogie =)
18:56.26archivistmore that 1/2 century
18:56.32archivistthan
19:04.03whitehawksomeone has a sci gentoo overlay
19:04.11whitehawkthere I found a brlcad ebuild
19:04.36whitehawkbut that is a crap.. damn I hope I can get the ebuild work
19:06.49brlcadthat would be cool
19:06.58brlcadi'd do it myself if I still had my gentoo system up
19:11.00pra5adhmph brlcad isnt in any of the ubuntu repos
19:11.07pra5adsomeone should make a package
19:14.43whitehawk--enable-regexp-build=no' '--enable-png-build=no' '--enable-zlib-build=no' '--enable-urt-build=no'
19:15.15whitehawkthese conf options mean support for these stuff or just that bundled will be built?
19:21.37*** join/#brlcad IngMan (n=c847284d@bz.bzflag.bz)
19:22.00IngManHi, People
19:25.27archivistIngman see http://ftp.brlcad.org/tmp/gear/ something brlcad put up for you
19:28.25IngManexelent
19:31.33IngMani need make a  "gear box",  when it finishes it I show them  
19:39.47IngMananother question:  that it programs is good of finite elements
19:41.12``Erikhuh?
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19:44.25IngMan???
19:47.24brlcadtoo many uses of "it", don't know what you're talking about
19:50.09IngManprograms of FEA
19:50.39IngManEso de no hablar bien ingles es un problema serio No ??? ;-)
19:50.49brlcada veces :)
19:51.09brlcadno entiendo la pregunta
19:51.30IngManque programa de elementos finitos es buneo
19:51.32IngManbueno
19:52.18brlcaddepende en que te importa
19:52.19IngMancalculix, impact
19:52.20brlcadgratis?
19:52.31IngManlibre, es mejor
19:53.43brlcadhay various..
19:53.48brlcadhmm
19:53.52brlcadhttp://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Finite_element_analysis
19:54.28brlcadansys y nastran son bien popular pero no gratis
19:54.38IngManexacto
19:54.44IngManyo manejo ansys
19:54.52IngManpero quiero algo GPL
19:55.11brlcadhubo una lista en wikipedia
19:55.26brlcadnot too familiar with the free ones
19:56.22IngManyo conosco varios, libre pero queria saber su opinio para ver cual era el mejor
19:57.53brlcadaja, bueno.. como dije, no conosco los que son gratis muy bien.. :/
19:58.20IngMany cual "no gratis"  te parece mejor
20:00.57brlcadprobablemente ansys
20:01.48IngMangracias
20:01.55IngManpor las imagenes
20:02.24IngMancuado acabe la caja de engranes que estoy haciendo te la mostrare
20:02.32brlcadde nada, solo tomo unos minutos
20:02.42brlcadta bien
20:04.20IngManyo tengo que hacer eso muchas horas
20:06.18IngManAhh, lo del manual en español,
20:06.28IngManspanish
20:07.00IngManya casi lo tengo, pero es que ultimamente ando un poco ocupado
20:07.32brlcadno problemo
20:07.38IngManchao
20:24.51brlcadheh
20:25.15``ErikI'm pretty sure the only two people there older than me were buying something for a kid or grandkid, heh
20:25.37brlcaddown in the marsh?
20:25.54``Erikno, bel air, the 'harford mall' has one
20:26.23``Erikbeen in the one at whitemarsh mall, tho...
20:26.36``Erikplus the hollister, american eagle, etc, down there... xgf made me
20:26.37``Erikheh
20:33.21clock_brlcad: Imagine that I have a box full of regular tetrahedra
20:33.50clock_and I am gluing them together, always fitting two faces together so they become identical
20:33.58clock_brlcad: how can I simulate this in brlcad?
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21:04.53learnerclock_: are they randomly placed, or isotropic?
21:10.32clock_learner: they are manually placed
21:10.44learnerbut i mean are they adjacent to each other?
21:10.46clock_I would like to make a lattice truss from regular tetrahedra
21:10.51clock_yes
21:10.55clock_they always share a face
21:10.56learnera tetrahedral mesh basically
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22:17.22whitehawkwhat is jove?
22:18.03pra5adarcane editor
22:18.07pra5ad*text
22:19.34learner"jonathan's own version of emacs"
22:19.58learnera streamlined emacs from a time that emacs took a long time to load on old slow systems
22:20.10whitehawkcan it be disabled?
22:20.15learneryep
22:20.16whitehawkit has a problem in jove.h
22:20.20learner--disable-jove
22:20.22whitehawkwith malloc
22:20.27learneryeah
22:20.42learnerthat has been fixed, and it's a one-line edit, but you really don't need jove
22:21.03learnerit just auto-enables by default if it detects that you don't have it installed
22:23.37whitehawkis jove needed in any way by brlcad?
22:26.23learnernope
22:26.48learnerit's one of many convenience tools provided, that's one of the oldest -- there are users that request it remain
22:27.11whitehawkoh..
22:27.19whitehawkand those zlib, png etc?
22:27.38learnerthose are used by various tools
22:40.32pra5adibot, time
22:40.37ibot2006.03.04 22:40:37 GMT
22:51.46whitehawksomehow disable-jove did not work..
22:51.59whitehawkmight be in the ebuild automatization..
22:54.06learnerbye bye zelazny
22:54.08learnerwhitehawk, edit src/other/jove.h and remove the malloc line
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23:01.08*** join/#brlcad ChanServ (ChanServ@services.) [NETSPLIT VICTIM]
23:01.08*** mode/#brlcad [+o ChanServ] by irc.freenode.net
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23:20.47*** topic/#brlcad is http://brlcad.org/ || BRL-CAD is now Free Software! || BRL-CAD Windows port has been merged to HEAD, not yet stable yet || Archer is now on HEAD as well, kick the tires, report any bugs || there WILL be a 7.6.8 released ASAP for January after all
Jeff Waugh - find it at freshmeat.net! Modified by Tim Riker to work with blootbot logs, split per channel, etc. irclog2html for #brlcad on 20060305

irclog2html for #brlcad on 20060305

00:08.06whitehawkbrlcad finite element analysis
00:08.14whitehawkthere's a prog for it
00:08.18whitehawkcalled solome
00:08.22whitehawkor what
00:09.30*** join/#brlcad cobbaut (n=paul@202-160.240.81.adsl.skynet.be)
00:16.08brlcadsalome, from the open cascade folks
00:17.00brlcadfrom what I understand, they don't actually do the FEA
00:17.24brlcadthey do the conversion from cad formats to various FEM
00:17.54brlcadfor this, we're working with Cubit from Sandia
00:17.56brlcadhttp://cubit.sandia.gov/
00:18.00brlcadmuch better package
00:20.14*** join/#brlcad daggerr (n=daggerr@c83-248-174-134.bredband.comhem.se)
00:21.03brlcadhowdy
00:21.34brlcadwhitehawk: in particular, we're hooking into cgm, testing out the connectivity and representations
00:21.37brlcadlooking pretty seamless
00:22.28whitehawk<PROTECTED>
00:22.28whitehawk<PROTECTED>
00:22.28whitehawk<PROTECTED>
00:22.28whitehawk<PROTECTED>
00:22.28whitehawk<PROTECTED>
00:22.29whitehawk<PROTECTED>
00:24.08brlcadyep
00:24.13brlcadexternal solvers being the key
00:24.16whitehawkcubit is not free
00:25.33brlcadfor most everyone we've dealt with that need to do an FEA, cost is rarely the problem -- but that is a concern
00:25.51brlcadopen cascade doesn't help us a whole lot in that regard, they are free as in beer but not speech
00:27.02brlcadfrom the few that have played with it, also, none have liked much about open cascade -- it's complex and poorly structured in places
00:27.14brlcadthis part might be better, of coruse
00:27.35brlcadlet's just say, patches to cinteract with them would be well received
00:27.42brlcadwe can already export iges for them
00:35.24whitehawki got errors from librt or tr...
00:35.37whitehawki might be missing something for compilation
00:35.51brlcadtr?
00:36.03brlcadah, librt.
00:36.07brlcadraytrace library
00:36.19brlcadwhat error?
00:37.12whitehawksomething about tcltk
00:37.20whitehawkundefined bla bla..
00:39.03whitehawk./.libs/librt.so: undefined reference to `Tcl_FirstHashEntry'
00:39.06whitehawklike this
00:40.20brlcadhmmm.. sounds like an ebuildism for finding/building Tcl
00:40.34brlcaddid you noticed whether Tcl was configured on or off?
00:40.46whitehawkoff
00:41.11brlcadah, that's likely why
00:41.32whitehawkyou mean --enable-tcl-build?
00:41.33brlcaddifferent versions of Tcl getting linked, missing a symbol
00:42.01brlcadyou should probably --enable-everything --disable-jove
00:42.08brlcadyeah, that should be on
00:42.11brlcadnot off
00:49.09whitehawkwell
00:49.40whitehawkit would be better to use stuff from the repo than the bundled with brlcad
00:49.44whitehawkbut nevermind
00:49.53whitehawknight
00:53.17brlcadi agree, that's where more work needs to go into the ebuild
00:53.33brlcadso that it specifies the external deps better
00:53.46brlcadright versions, adds the right build options, etc
01:01.20learneris it all squished?
01:01.29learner~ww
01:01.30ibotWrong window pansie
01:47.39Twingycnc machine works great, I need to pick up some more collets and end mills though
01:47.57Twingyand get crackin' on my cnc software
01:47.58birdmunlol ... so it is a more manufactured machine?
01:48.05Twingyhrm?
01:48.13birdmuncollets
01:48.38birdmuni was just wondering what machine you were using ... homebuilt or purchased
01:48.58Twingytaig 20ER-CR
01:49.43Twingyafter the rotary table it'll ring at about $2100
01:50.15Twingywhich is ridiculously cheap for a cnc machine
01:50.34birdmunI have parts sitting right next to me to build a homebuilt machine minus the stepper controller
01:51.08Twingyin the future if I require a larger cnc machine I will probably build my own
01:51.31Twingyfor now I just don't have the time to build one, I'm getting too far behind on my rocketry progress
01:51.59birdmunlol
01:52.06TwingyI will be dissapointed if I don't have my next rocet motor working by the end of the year
01:52.20Twingy*rocket
01:52.27birdmunamateur rocketry then?
01:52.31Twingyof course
01:52.37learneri will be disappointed if you don't win the ansari launch :)
01:52.39Twingyif work were funding this I'd have much better tools
01:52.59Twingyno way I can win that, don't have the budget or time alotment
01:53.23birdmunpop sci or pop mech did a story on a competition in NM or somewhere similar
01:54.49birdmunat least you work somewhere that is relevant to your hobbies
01:55.02Twingyyes
01:55.57birdmuni help manufacture dog biscuits
01:56.10birdmunnot a whole lotta call for cnc work there :)
01:56.26Twingyheh
01:56.47birdmundid you ever consider EMC to run your mill?
01:56.48TwingyI need to get my salary up higher so I can tool up better
01:57.26Twingythat'd require running linux
01:57.38TwingyI'd rather just stick to a proven app like turbocnc in dos
01:57.52Twingylinux without a heavy set of mods is a far cry from realtime
01:58.03Twingyis just wasn't architectured with real-time in mind
01:58.47birdmuni know little about both and as i have as yet to get a machine to work with i will know little about either
01:59.09TwingyI will probably order my mig welder next
01:59.21Twingypresumably sometime next month
02:00.40TwingyI've actually been thinking more and more about aluminum rocket nozzles for this next motor, previously I completely ruled them out, but if designed correctly I think they run with a near room-temperature internal temp
02:00.52birdmunwhat do you use for fuel in your rocket engines?
02:01.17Twingythe last series were based on richard nakka's potassium nitrate dextrose solid motor design
02:01.41Twingythis series is alot more experimental due to the lack of data in the amateur realm... propane and nitrous
02:03.22Twingyit's got potential to become a really popular type due to just about every aspect of the motor and propellant being simple and cost effective
02:03.33birdmuncrazy to think people can buy this stuff off the shelf
02:03.44``Erikheh
02:03.52``Erikdon't tell the gubmint
02:03.58birdmundont worry
02:04.13birdmunas you saw earlier im no more fond of it than you are
02:04.26birdmunat least the current leader
02:05.00TwingyI probably won't have to interface with any sort of government regs for atleast 18 - 24 months due to the time frame I'm working on and the scale of the motor
02:05.14birdmunkewl
02:05.55birdmunso it just boils down to a power to weight ratio then
02:05.58``Erikit'd be interesting to use gasoline and something like a kitchen or bathroom cleaning agent to build a high output rocket engine
02:06.16``Eriklets see them outlaw gas and 'scrubbing bubbles' o.O
02:06.23birdmunlol
02:06.27TwingyI'm going to build a small 40-50lb thrust motor for my initial design, after that I will scale it up to 150-200lb or thereabouts
02:06.35birdmunwow
02:07.07``Erika longer burn time than the ~10s your current generation motors output?
02:07.13TwingyI want appropximately 10:1 weight to thrust ratio
02:07.22Twingythrust to weight even
02:07.38Twingy10s? where where you the day of testing?
02:07.43``Erik10g acceleration?
02:07.46``Erikwhich day of testing?
02:07.51``Erikheh
02:07.52Twingyyou said 10s
02:08.02``ErikI was there for a few...
02:08.03``Erikmebbe 2s
02:08.10``Erikheh
02:08.25Twingyall the burns were well under 2s
02:08.33``ErikI remember explosions and pieces of the steel motor body detaching
02:08.44``Erikyeah, that's right...
02:08.55``Erikunder 2s? I though tthe 'full burn' was pretty close to 2s
02:09.17Twingydepends on the configuration
02:09.18``Erikyou did some thrust graphs, right?
02:09.28Twingythe 300lb thrust test was 0.9 seconds
02:09.30``Erik"bottom up"
02:09.34birdmunhttp://www.aardvark.co.nz/pjet/xjet.shtml ever see this
02:10.02``Erikthe 300lb was 'top down'? blowing combusted gas over the fuel core?
02:11.43Twingyyep
02:12.11``Erikthink if we told mt that we didn't think a decently performing fem program could do nozzle analysis, he'd whip one up for us? :D *duck*
02:12.24``Erikerm, rather, that such a program could be done in c++
02:12.25``Erikheh
02:12.58Twingyalright, time for me to get organized here, back in a couple hours
02:13.06birdmunhasta
02:13.07``Erikwhen you're done, clean my den.
02:13.07``Erik:D
02:17.59``Erikhave you seen the pulse jet powered go-kart out of nz?
02:18.09birdmunthats where that vid came from
02:18.13birdmunprolly same guy
02:18.40``Erikah, I was reading about pulse jets a few years ago, dude in nz did a gokart, a beer cooler, etc
02:18.49birdmunhe was working on an cheap knock off of a cruise missle
02:19.01birdmunit has since strangely gone missing from his site
02:20.03``Erikhuh, I think that is the same dude
02:20.10``Erikbut when I looked, the jet was mounted low on the body
02:20.43``Erikhttp://www.aardvark.co.nz/pjet/images/jk11.jpg there it is, heh
02:20.49birdmunhttp://www.aardvark.co.nz/pjet/gokart.htm
02:21.42``Erikchup
02:22.10``Erikhah, you're the dude from joplin?
02:22.47birdmunaye
02:23.33``Erikman, why didn't I find anyone really interested in shit lik ethat when I was out there? :D
02:24.16``Erikhttp://www.aardvark.co.nz/pjet/pjafterburner.shtml
02:24.17``Eriko.O
02:25.43birdmunyou were here 10 yrs ago?
02:25.54``Erik'96-'03
02:25.57``Erikerm
02:26.02``Erikyeah, heh
02:26.07birdmunhttp://www.interestingprojects.com/cruisemissile/
02:26.21birdmunbecause in that time frame i was still in indiana
02:26.23``Erik<-- did smsu '97-01
02:26.58birdmunborn and raised in indiana
02:27.01``Erikthat made like /. or something when the supposed 'leaning' was taking place
02:27.14birdmunmoved here in 03
02:27.21birdmuni wouldnt be surprised
02:28.07birdmunwell im up to lesson 4 in Vol II Intro to mged
02:28.16learnerheh
02:28.33learnerfun fun
02:28.37birdmunprinted the whole thing out took a bit ... 2 pages per page tho ... had a couple jams too
02:29.24``Eriksean, I want to learn how to make models in brlcad, come show me by modelling my house :D
02:29.26``Erik*duck*
02:29.35birdmunlol
02:29.55learnereasy, "make box arb8"
02:29.57``Erikdon't make me outpress you o.O
02:30.05learnerall done
02:30.29``Erikdoes that do the moulding on the window sills and door jams, too?
02:30.30``Erikheh
02:30.39birdmunpick pick pick
02:31.07``Erik:D
02:32.21``Erik('sok, my competition lift is the 12oz curl)
02:32.23learnerhehe
02:32.31learnermm.. speaking of such
02:33.30birdmunwow ... i have a green rounded off nub in my graphical window
02:33.39``ErikI hit the local shop last night, the bottom shelf of my fridge is completely full of microbrew bottles
02:33.39birdmunsarcasm :P
02:33.59birdmunlocal shops are good
02:34.08birdmunesp when they know you
02:34.12``Erikindeed
02:34.25``ErikI've talked shop with one of the brewers at springfield brewery
02:34.34birdmunback home there was a store i could occassionally get discounts
02:34.55``Erikheh, I've also talked shop with the brewer at a local one, 'duclaws' (a bit big to bea  micro anymore, guess they're a regional?)
02:35.12birdmunhe
02:35.14birdmunh
02:35.26``Erikthe dude here, he's not the brewmaster, but he does most of the work... he quit his job as a lawyer to brew, really cool guy
02:35.58``Erikman, open tab of a beer they call "venom"... I so should NOT have drove home that night, hehehe
02:36.13``Eriktap
02:37.04birdmunstout
02:37.09``Erik?
02:37.13birdmunbeer
02:37.18birdmunstout/strong
02:37.19``Erikja?
02:38.01``Erikwhat was the coffee&chocolate stout meuller had, um, 'mudhouse stout'?
02:38.18birdmunno idea
02:38.24birdmunnot a beer drinker
02:38.55birdmunsouthern comfort and mt dew
02:39.27birdmunmaybe i should say ... my stomach doesnt tend to like beer
02:39.39``Erikyet it can take diluded whiskey
02:40.36birdmunwho am i to complain :)
02:46.58Twingyug, so much work left
02:47.42birdmunI have a fair amount to do myself but I cant complain ... all fairly easy stuff
02:48.17``Erik:D
02:48.20TwingyI think I'm going to do a little more work on my cnc software tonight
02:49.11``Erikjust the cut csg type thing, not, say, a driver?
02:49.12``Erik:D
02:49.21``Erik<-- thinks a fbsd driver for that thingy would be gnarly
02:49.45birdmundebian is unacceptable?
02:50.07Twingyturbocnc works just fine
02:50.16``Erikmeh, when I have to use linux and I get the choice of which, I tend to go with debian 'testing'
02:50.44birdmuni dont know enough to even get myself in trouble
02:50.52birdmunwell maybe
02:51.04``Erikyeah, but you have to boot dos to use it, twingy... unless you can get it chugging under dosemu without any hiccups
02:51.04birdmunmy current linux partition is unaccessable
02:51.45birdmununaccessible(?)
02:51.51``Erikfunny, I have a machine with a dual boot config, fbsd and w2k... windows won't boot, the windows cd says the fs is damaged beyond usability, yet fbsd mounts and uses it just fine o.O
02:52.03birdmunlol
02:52.25birdmunbeen so long since i crashed it i dont recall what i killed
02:52.47``ErikI think I did in my windows in october or november
02:52.55``Erik:)
02:53.13birdmunlol
02:53.30birdmuni have a 100g drive w/ 60 partitioned for linux
02:53.48birdmuni keep having to delete and save in my 40g windows partition
02:54.11``Erik<-- bought into the fileserver mentality many yrs ago... most boxes have just 'nuff hdd to hold the OS
02:54.50Twingy2 logitech mice and a 256MB stick for good measure
02:54.57birdmunlol
02:55.03birdmunonly 256?
02:55.08``Erikhttp://i31.photobucket.com/albums/c383/reminesmeto/George_W__Bush_gj_r_177820a.jpg :o
02:55.25Twingyall the stuff I do at home only requires ~256
02:55.27``Erikheh, and the machine will recognize 64m of it? :D
02:55.38Twingyit's my little 3ghz p4 shoebox
02:55.50birdmunic
02:55.57Twingythat's collecting dust for the last 5 months
02:56.07birdmuni have a system like that
02:56.16``Erik3ghz? damn, heh
02:56.25birdmunvia 1gig w/ 512mb and a 300g hdd
02:56.32TwingyI've got a 1.3ghz celeron in the garage for the cnc machine, 4GB win98, 16GB fbsd6
02:56.43Twingywith a 15" lcd
02:56.47birdmunkewl
02:56.56Twingythe other 15" lcd is upstairs at top of stairs
02:57.05Twingythat's where the 3ghz box will go
02:57.13Twingy384MB for web/email
02:57.26birdmunim considering a lcd for the via system
02:57.39TwingyI absolutely love the 15" lcd's they are so practical
02:58.02birdmunsystem will be used by gf's daughter
02:58.08Twingythey're light, cheap, and can play HD video
02:58.23birdmundont know if 15 will really compare .. gf has 17crt and i have 19
02:58.25Twingymy bran new 15" dell lcd was $100
02:58.32birdmunnice
02:58.57Twingyyou just can't beat that
02:59.18Twingythe workstation I'm on now is a pair of 19" lcd's
02:59.23TwingyI've had this setup for 2 years
03:00.03Twingywhen I upgrade next year I will probably consolidate to one LCD since they are going way down in price
03:00.15birdmunnice
03:00.29Twingythe 24" ones
03:00.35birdmundell 20" for 459
03:00.46Twingythese were $485 a piece in '04
03:01.51birdmunim sure
03:02.25Twingyonce I get the 4x8 trailer together I should be ready to pick up the grizzly lathe
03:02.26birdmunviewsonic 19" 4ms 344
03:02.35birdmunkewl
03:02.53Twingythey've got a cheap $2300 belt lathe I got my eye on
03:03.04birdmun800 dell 24 lcd
03:03.09birdmuncheap?
03:03.16Twingyrelatively speaking
03:03.24Twingyfor a lathe that's cheap
03:03.39birdmuni guess 2300 and cheap rarely coincided for me
03:03.39Twingyamusing thing is it will be as much as my cnc mill
03:03.47Twingyexcept lathe is 1200lbs and mill is ~100lbs
03:04.53birdmunlathe could prolly eat the mill for breakfast
03:05.07``Erikheh
03:06.39Twingymore than likely I will put down hardwood in the living room before purchasing the lathe
03:06.54Twingythat is something I'm itching to get done
03:07.03birdmununderstandable
03:07.36TwingyI'm thinking about picking it up sometime this month
03:08.02Twingythe weather is a little more forgiving now that spring is near
03:08.27Twingyno scheme, just be smart and motivated
03:08.38birdmuni dont doubt that
03:08.55birdmunand a much better paying job than i have
03:09.08birdmunmore motivation than anything tho
03:09.44Twingyobviously you're content with it "enough" otherwise you would have found something else
03:10.31birdmunactually still going to school
03:10.37birdmundont need to shake things up
03:11.11birdmunand my pay is decent compared to most jobs i have had down here
03:11.20birdmunactually all other jobs i have had down here
03:11.35birdmunjust bought a house
03:12.11Twingygood investment
03:12.13birdmunif i seem to be knocking you and your motivation i am sorry
03:12.25birdmuni know im a sloth
03:12.29Twingyheh
03:12.55Twingyyou'd be surprised how motivated and productive you can become without a girl friend :)
03:13.21TwingyI'm just taking advantage of the situation while I've not attached
03:13.33Twingys/I've/I'm
03:14.36birdmunmine is sleeping on the futon currently
03:14.55birdmunand i am amazingly undermotivated often
03:15.09birdmuni work hard to do what i want and then lounge
03:16.22birdmuni have known ppl that say they cant be out of work for long ... me .. i could find many things to occupy(?) my time if i werent working
04:11.27Twingynothing says fun like a diamond monkey: http://www.js.cx/~justin/cornelius_diamond.png
04:11.46Twingyhttp://www.js.cx/~justin/images/cornelius_diamond.png
04:13.49learner:)
04:15.20learnermy what a mighty bulge he's got going there
04:17.00Twingyhahaha
04:17.10TwingyI just found a video of my room-mate firing up the old sun 3/60 we found
04:17.18Twingyand it checking all 8MB of ram
04:18.09Twingyexcuse me a sun 3/200
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10:46.00whitehawkcompilation died fith -fPIC should be set..
11:18.15clock_if I have 2 cubes in brlcad is it possible to say that one cube should be aligned to just touch the other one?
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12:36.19whitehawkigf brlcad makes its own tcl tk etc it wqont overwritesystem tcl tk?!
12:43.01whitehawkfalcone@nido ~/brlcad-7.6.6 $ mged
12:43.02whitehawkInitializing and backgrounding, please wait...Done
12:43.02whitehawkfalcone@nido ~/brlcad-7.6.6 $ this isn't a Tk applicationunknown color name "Black"
12:43.02whitehawkMGED Aborted.
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23:31.56tegtmeyebrlcad, you around?
Jeff Waugh - find it at freshmeat.net! Modified by Tim Riker to work with blootbot logs, split per channel, etc. irclog2html for #brlcad on 20060306

irclog2html for #brlcad on 20060306

01:23.27brlcadtegtmeye: occasionally
01:36.46pra5adlies
01:42.39brlcaddamn lies
01:43.34Twingythis trailer has like a hundred parts
01:45.11``ErikO.o
01:46.25Twingyatlest the axle is all bolted and greased
01:49.07tegtmeyebrlcad- how do I evaluate a variable in autoconf in this instance...
01:49.23tegtmeyeAC_HELP_STRING([--with-stack-size],
01:49.25tegtmeye<PROTECTED>
01:49.43tegtmeyeI want the configure --help to look like...
01:49.59Twingymike, you got any collet sets laying around?
01:50.00tegtmeyeset default thread stack byte size [default=###]
01:50.08tegtmeyeno
01:50.13tegtmeyesorry, why?
01:50.20TwingyI need some more collets and endmills
01:50.31tegtmeye`more' ???
01:50.33Twingygonna resume work on my cnc software this week
01:50.39TwingyI only picked up a handful
01:50.47TwingyI want the whole fricken mcmaster catalogue
01:50.48tegtmeyeand what happened to them?
01:50.53tegtmeyelol
01:50.57Twingynothing happened, I want more damnit
01:51.41tegtmeyehow much did you pay for them?
01:51.47Twingydamn I'm out of shape, I ran 2 miles and was out of breath, so sad :(
01:52.02TwingyI bought 5 1/16" endmills for like $20?
01:52.27tegtmeyeHSS?
01:52.30TwingyI wanna get some 1 / 32 too and 3/32
01:52.34TwingyI believe so
01:52.39tegtmeyesounds right
01:52.41brlcadtegtmeye: heh
01:52.47TwingyI ordered them like 3 months ago
01:53.01Twingyaround the time I ordered the cnc portion
01:53.26brlcadyou can't directly with AC_HELP_STRING
01:53.33tegtmeyebrlcad - I tried every combination of extra [[]]'s and "'s I could think of...
01:53.34brlcadyou have to wrap it in a macro
01:53.41brlcadso that it's m4 evaluated
01:54.02tegtmeyeeg?
01:54.23brlcadbrl-cad does this, take a look at the BC_ARG_ENABLE macro
01:54.39brlcadm4 dir
01:54.44brlcadargs.m4 iirc
01:55.27tegtmeyeautoconf talks about the AC_DEFUN macro...
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02:03.48tegtmeyebrlcad-I'm seeing its use but not the definition...
02:04.29brlcad20:54 <@brlcad> m4 dir
02:04.30brlcad20:54 <@brlcad> args.m4 iirc
02:05.29tegtmeyeah...
02:07.25pra5adgo on
02:08.12Twingypizzas, hot pockets, and soda
02:08.30pra5adexcellent
02:08.30Twingylate night coding snacks
02:08.51Twingypizzas $2, hot pockets $1, sodas 25 cents
02:09.40TwingyI think I have like 16 pizzas and 12 hot pockets
02:10.13TwingyI pretty much wiped food lion out
02:10.38Twingycan't remember the last time I speant over $100 on groceries
02:12.03tegtmeye<- giving up
02:12.51TwingyHARMONIC OSCILLATIONS#@!
02:12.53tegtmeyeas long as I can wear fuzzy slippers
02:13.15tegtmeyeyour playing a harmonica???
02:13.27Twingyyea, I milled one out of silly putty
02:13.32tegtmeyes/your/you're
02:15.45Twingyand best supporting actress goes to Rachel Weisz
02:17.11Twingyoof, looking forward to monday, what an exhausting weekend
03:49.55brlcadTwingy: http://www.makezine.com/blog/street_legal_vw_powered_3.jpg
03:52.46brlcadthat site is right up your alley
03:59.00``Erikthat the one orielly was involve din?
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06:25.24CIA-5BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/TODO: gpgpu for enhanced performance boolweave sorting
06:29.18CIA-5BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/TODO: libfb + font rendering (perhaps through libbn's plot interface) for a posix terminal.
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06:34.39CIA-5BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/TODO: support to the raytracers for multiple image file formats, recognizing an option and/or the file suffix of the -o filename.
07:58.43CIA-5BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/TODO: cheat sheet of common mged commands, keybindings, gui elements and scripting facilities
07:59.56CIA-5BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/TODO: cheat sheet of useful BRL-CAD command-line tools grouped categorically
08:03.26CIA-5BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/TODO: might as well call them by the more tame name of reference sheets
08:11.41CIA-5BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/TODO: short intro documentation for command line tools including a separate one for mged. generally want a document less than 20 pages but encompassing.
08:22.36CIA-5BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/TODO: restore functionality to tests and benchmark
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16:24.06``ErikO.o
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18:54.04tegtmeyeer...
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Jeff Waugh - find it at freshmeat.net! Modified by Tim Riker to work with blootbot logs, split per channel, etc. irclog2html for #brlcad on 20060307

irclog2html for #brlcad on 20060307

00:36.15``Erikhttp://www.ukresistance.co.uk/pics3/segaviz2.jpg
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03:04.41Twingyhrm, trailer is wired up now
03:22.13pra5admmm X3 trailer
03:38.40TwingyI really need to build a linear actuator add-on for this trailer for rocket launching
03:39.10Twingysimple hinge and pneumatic actuator setup that bolts on
03:39.33brlcadgonna pimp your ride?
03:39.34Twingywith 1/4" steel plate to prevent rocket exhaust from damaging trailer
03:39.43Twingypimp my trailer y0
03:39.50Twingyput spinners on it
03:39.53Twingyand neon lights
03:39.59Twingywith 3 spoilers
03:40.01brlcadrockets on the spinners
03:40.11Twingylike a mexican parade
03:40.25Twingyor fiesta
03:40.27brlcadas your pull up to the gate
03:40.37Twingy*WHISTLE* *WHIRL WHIRL WHIRL*
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04:54.25pra5adruh roh
04:54.35pra5adroosevelt is angry that i adopted islam
04:54.45pra5adhere comes the preemptive war
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17:01.31tegtmeyesean, you around?
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20:05.24brlcadtegtmeye: nope
20:07.16``Erikhttp://unix.rulez.org/~calver/pictures/curves.jpg
20:09.16brlcadhehe, yeah, saw that
21:39.15``Erikvim is my favored flavor
21:52.19docelicsure
21:53.21docelichttp://www.alf.com/
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23:27.05learner1/nick learner
23:27.14brlcadhmm, that didn't work as planned
23:52.24Twingyheh
23:52.31Twingystill watching?
23:52.38brlcadmebbe... :)
23:54.58Twingy0x2B | !0x2B that is the question
23:55.43Twingywho would have thought a logic analyzer could answer one of shakespears most famous questions
23:55.46archivisthehe an HP1631D
23:56.28archivistdo we need to send a collection plate around for end mills
23:56.47Twingyyes
23:56.54Twingyjust ordered more parts yesterday
23:57.04Twingyplanning to spend most of tonight working on opengl stuff
23:57.30``Erikheh
23:57.42archivistopengl--->broken end mill
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Jeff Waugh - find it at freshmeat.net! Modified by Tim Riker to work with blootbot logs, split per channel, etc. irclog2html for #brlcad on 20060308

irclog2html for #brlcad on 20060308

00:24.23pra5adhaha HP1631D
00:24.49pra5adi used one of those
00:24.53pra5adback in undergrad
00:26.09archivistI like old HP, especially when free
00:26.43pra5adand by back, i meant 2 yrs ago
00:27.06archivistheh thes are circe mid 80's
00:27.36pra5adtop 20 college program and cant buy up to date equipment
00:27.48archivisttime to drill the fuse link to effect a repair
00:30.30pra5adhmm for $200 we made a dla w/ 2mb ram
00:31.09pra5addriven by a 24mhz crystal
00:31.15pra5ador was it 40..
00:33.28Twingymy logic analyzer consists of a hammer, broom, and dust pan
00:33.59brlcads/shove guys/shove guts/
00:34.04Twingyyum
00:35.45archivistooo fixed fuse and got a worker
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02:31.36Twingyhrm, now I need plywood to finish trailer
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04:51.33Twingy0xsleep
04:51.58Twingy0xBED
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14:32.13birdmuntrying to figure out how to make a raytrace look like chrome/polished aluminium
14:32.34birdmuni am guessing it has to do w/ stacking shaders but not sure which ones
14:40.26brlcadnot necessarily
14:40.42brlcadstart with just phong/plastic
14:41.08brlcador select metal on the list (which is also phong/plastic, but with different defaults)
14:41.33birdmuni will have to try that between classes .. thanks
14:41.48birdmunat least i have figured out how to draw and raytrace
14:43.47brlcadbasically, tweak the reflectivity and specularity values
14:44.12brlcadmiddle mouse will tell you what each of them mean
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16:39.04brlcadhttp://ftp.brlcad.org/images/havoc_rtedge.png
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21:38.46birdmunthe havoc your work brlcad?
21:39.23birdmunjust a mention before i head to work ... 7.6.6 doesnt seem to have a metal shader unless im not looking hard enough
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Jeff Waugh - find it at freshmeat.net! Modified by Tim Riker to work with blootbot logs, split per channel, etc. irclog2html for #brlcad on 20060309

irclog2html for #brlcad on 20060309

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00:29.31pra5ad``Erik the revolutionary
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00:37.52``Erik?
00:38.41pra5adfiring the first shots by taking out webstart
00:44.18``Erikhah
00:44.19``Erikuh
00:44.21``Erikthat was a mistake
00:44.28``ErikI rm -rf'd the wrong dir :(
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01:06.09archivistTwingy "pimp my trailer" http://www.archivist.info/pics/1947%20Cow%20trailer%20-%20rvl.jpg
01:07.55``Erikuh, that's kinda cool, but where's the wetbar?
01:09.08``Erik(is that a mercedes tri-star at the bottom of it?)
01:10.28archivistor http://www.archivist.info/pics/Chrysler%20Hemi%20Powered%20Bar-B-Que%20Grille.jpg
01:18.24archivistlooks like he raided the kitchen as well to build it
01:38.54``Erikhehehe, colbert report rocks
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02:14.32``ErikEXTREME VAGINAL MAKEOVER!
02:14.52brlcadshaddap
02:24.17``Erikum... NO!
02:24.21``Erikheh, what's up?
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20:31.31birdmuni was reading thru the appendix A in Tutorial 2 and noticed a mention of animate having its own tutorial
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22:35.12brlcadbirdmun: yes, there are a couple animation tutorials that have been made over time.. one is available on-line, comes up if you search for brl-cad animation
23:59.43``ErikO.o
Jeff Waugh - find it at freshmeat.net! Modified by Tim Riker to work with blootbot logs, split per channel, etc. irclog2html for #brlcad on 20060310

irclog2html for #brlcad on 20060310

00:02.28archivistacceleration curves and system resonance go nicely together
00:02.57TwingyI'll see about posting some screen shots of my cam software next week or so
00:07.02archivistI want to build a cnc gear miller one day, with some form of tool and gear blank measurement
00:07.32Twingya standard cnc mill will be able to do that
00:07.45Twingyin fact one of my templates that come with the software will be a gear
00:07.51Twingyto show how templates work
00:10.49archivistall the cheap systems ive seen are open loop and dont center the cutter which is very important on small gears and pinions
00:11.12archivistI setup machines here with a microscope
00:11.26Twingywhen you see the accuracy of mine you can be the judge of whether it meets your requirements or not
00:14.24archivistit takes up to a day to setup to make 3mm od 9 tooth pinion (and thats on a Safag swiss pinion miller)
00:14.57TwingyI'll see how long it takes me to make one when I'm done
02:17.49``Erikhttp://www.lileks.com/institute/gallery/
02:20.08Twingyhrm, only 3 hours left to code tonight
02:31.51brlcadcrazy talk
02:32.31TwingyI'm getting close to done though
02:32.35``Eriksleep is for the weak?
02:36.29Twingy*grumble*
02:42.38brlcadsleep is for the dead
02:48.06Twingyman, this is just depressing me
02:54.18Twingyamazing
02:54.38TwingyI have 2 and only 2 headers included, signal.h and sys/types.h, and yet implict declaration to kill remains
02:55.10Twingyeven got __USE_POSIX defined too >_<
03:33.02learnerif it's implicit, then you're missing a header
03:33.08learneror a define
03:33.28Twingycant be the case cause I had them all there
03:33.33Twingyand nothing was undefing shit
03:33.50Twingythere is some mysterious shit going on in this code
03:35.09Twingyit's so ugly having to put #define __USE_BSD and crap everywhere
03:35.49Twingysome stuff needs it defined, other stuff doesn't, it's totally wonky
03:54.37Twingyyou still at work?
04:07.48learnernah
04:08.29Twingyfreebsd and linux work
04:08.39Twingytesting altix
04:12.04Twingyand off it goes
04:16.21Twingygo baby go
04:23.38Twingyworks
04:23.45Twingywelp, that takes care of 4
04:23.52Twingymy work is done
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04:58.39CIA-5BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/sh/ (footer.sh header.sh): add support for m4 files and make sure it's consistent on template files between the header and footer scripts
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09:17.04*** topic/#brlcad is http://brlcad.org/ || BRL-CAD is now Free Software! || BRL-CAD Windows port has been merged to HEAD, not yet stable yet || Archer is now on HEAD as well, kick the tires, report any bugs || there WILL be a 7.6.8 released ASAP for January after all
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10:56.13*** topic/#brlcad is http://brlcad.org/ || BRL-CAD is now Free Software! || BRL-CAD Windows port has been merged to HEAD, not yet stable yet || Archer is now on HEAD as well, kick the tires, report any bugs || there WILL be a 7.6.8 released ASAP for January after all
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14:31.13clock_brlcad: do you know the Nitro Magnum snowboard?
14:43.38brlcadnot really
14:44.41clock_What do you ride?
14:55.39brlcada bicycle ;)
14:55.40brlcadSpecialized
15:00.59clock_you don't ride a snowboard?
15:02.53brlcadi wouldn't mind it, probably can
15:03.00brlcadbut haven't tried it
15:03.07brlcadyet
15:03.14brlcadusually go skiing
15:04.02clock_you can't ride snowboard when you haven't tried it yet.
15:05.10``Erikweeeeee
15:05.29``Eriksee? can too ride a snowboard if you haven't tried it before :D
15:05.39``Eriks/o//
15:05.55``Erikibot
15:05.57``Erikghah
15:33.29clock_that's not riding snowboard. That's riding a sledge.
15:34.10clock_Is ibot AD? Artificial Debility?
15:35.21brlcadi've asked tim to shut that off, and he did for the other channel .. just not for #brlcad yet
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19:18.52CIA-5BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/configure.ac: unable to track down all the tclisms auto_path right now so redefault to build instead of auto
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Jeff Waugh - find it at freshmeat.net! Modified by Tim Riker to work with blootbot logs, split per channel, etc. irclog2html for #brlcad on 20060311

irclog2html for #brlcad on 20060311

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Jeff Waugh - find it at freshmeat.net! Modified by Tim Riker to work with blootbot logs, split per channel, etc. irclog2html for #brlcad on 20060312

irclog2html for #brlcad on 20060312

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01:06.42Twingyback to coding
02:15.27pra5addamn comcrap
02:15.38Twingycomtrash
02:15.42pra5adi cant just pick up the hd reciever
02:15.48pra5adthey HAVE to send in technicians
02:16.09Twingyheh
02:16.56pra5adearliest slot is 3/16
02:16.57pra5adugh
02:17.26TwingyI'm already 400+ lines into my cam software
02:17.36TwingyI'll probly write another 300 tonight
02:28.41pra5adugh
02:28.46pra5admake it 3/17, 5pm
02:28.53pra5adi want my HD pbs now dammit
02:28.54pra5ad=(
02:30.14Twingywhat exactly is the problem
02:30.37pra5adgotta have the hd box
02:31.06Twingyhi def?
02:31.11pra5adyea
02:31.27Twingyso you order service and they come install it
02:31.44pra5adyes
02:33.01pra5adlets see if hdmi is any different than component
02:33.10pra5adapparently my tv manufacturer thinks so
02:42.21Twingybreak time
04:15.44Twingypeanut buttah jelly time
04:17.57pra5adbrilliant.. i get battlefield 2 and it only runs on xp
04:18.04pra5adnot my day.
04:30.10Twingywee, 500 lines
05:13.05Twingymmm
05:34.44pra5adlol bf2 just killed my mbr
05:41.35Twingytsp graph updated
06:45.15Twingyand that makes 700 lines
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Jeff Waugh - find it at freshmeat.net! Modified by Tim Riker to work with blootbot logs, split per channel, etc. irclog2html for #brlcad on 20060313

irclog2html for #brlcad on 20060313

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17:07.51*** topic/#brlcad is http://brlcad.org/ || BRL-CAD is now Free Software! || BRL-CAD Windows port has been merged to HEAD, not yet stable yet || Archer is now on HEAD as well, kick the tires, report any bugs || there WILL be a 7.6.8 released ASAP for January after all
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18:02.28narniaknock, knock, anyone here?
18:03.36archivistanyone went missing fetching some beer
18:17.05``Eriko.O
18:20.31archivistmust have been mugged by Erik
18:24.32``Erikall your beer are belong to me
18:42.02``Erikwhy not?
18:42.19``Erikand, um, you are aware that you can drink things other than beer... there's no need to be thirsty
18:42.32``ErikI mean, there's wine, whiskey, vodka, kahlua, tequila, rum, ...
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18:45.13archivistcant afford it, I survive on coffee if the boss makes it or water
18:45.29CIA-5BRL-CAD: 03jlowenz 07trimnurbs-branch * 10brlcad/sh/ (header.sh footer.sh): Changes from HEAD merge.
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21:09.08CIA-5BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/TODO: center of presented area
22:22.14CIA-5BRL-CAD: 03jlowenz 07trimnurbs-branch * 10brlcad/include/nurb.h: ws and support for trimming curves on a nurb surface.
22:26.26CIA-5BRL-CAD: 03jlowenz 07trimnurbs-branch * 10brlcad/src/librt/g_nurb.c: ws; added support to export trimming curves along with their nurb surface.
22:29.28CIA-5BRL-CAD: 03jlowenz 07trimnurbs-branch * 10brlcad/src/librt/nurb_util.c: ws; initialize trimming curve list and count; added function to add trimming curves to a surface.
Jeff Waugh - find it at freshmeat.net! Modified by Tim Riker to work with blootbot logs, split per channel, etc. irclog2html for #brlcad on 20060314

irclog2html for #brlcad on 20060314

00:21.10brlcadawesome http://www.nottingham.ac.uk/~eaxwr/geom.html
00:22.00brlcadthen fed to fem code: http://www.nottingham.ac.uk/~eaxwr/geom2fem.html
00:24.44archivist30 miles from here
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00:42.26``Erikveddy interestink
00:42.40``Erikhttp://www.speed101.com/gallery/videos.htm  damn those're some fast bikes
01:01.37learnercool
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03:49.55Twingyoye
03:52.21TwingyI think I could beat that in my pick-up
06:14.43MaloeranThat doesn't look very comfortable, safe or manoeuvrable. I think I'll stick to my "normal" bicycle and a 35km/h. speed
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22:21.20CIA-5BRL-CAD: 03jlowenz 07trimnurbs-branch * 10brlcad/include/nurb.h: oops, add support for lists of trim_contours (essentially a list of curves) since any given trim contour may be composed of multiple curves.
22:28.31CIA-5BRL-CAD: 03jlowenz 07trimnurbs-branch * 10brlcad/src/librt/g_nurb.c:
22:28.31CIA-5BRL-CAD: modify import/export5 to support reading and writing the trimming
22:28.31CIA-5BRL-CAD: curves from the db. this change makes the nurbs format
22:28.31CIA-5BRL-CAD: incompatible with previous versions.
22:32.58CIA-5BRL-CAD: 03jlowenz 07trimnurbs-branch * 10brlcad/src/librt/nurb_util.c: added some util functions to create a trim_contour as well as add curves to it, and add it to a nurb surface.
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Jeff Waugh - find it at freshmeat.net! Modified by Tim Riker to work with blootbot logs, split per channel, etc. irclog2html for #brlcad on 20060315

irclog2html for #brlcad on 20060315

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18:25.09*** topic/#brlcad is http://brlcad.org/ || BRL-CAD is now Free Software! || BRL-CAD Windows port has been merged to HEAD, not yet stable yet || Archer is now on HEAD as well, kick the tires, report any bugs || there WILL be a 7.6.8 released ASAP for January after all
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Jeff Waugh - find it at freshmeat.net! Modified by Tim Riker to work with blootbot logs, split per channel, etc. irclog2html for #brlcad on 20060316

irclog2html for #brlcad on 20060316

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13:53.08brlcadhm
13:53.25brlcadsf tracker parser is sort of working
13:55.48``Erik?
13:57.15brlcadwriting a script that grabs data from all the trackers and a few files in cvs to generate a master "report"
13:57.27brlcadfor .. someone .. that likes to see big spreadsheets of data
13:58.17brlcadand yes, this is why the release is being delayed
13:58.17``Erikoh
13:58.18``Erikheh
13:58.29``Eriklet me know when he's in so I can punch his head a few tmes for ya ;)
13:58.30``Erik*duck*
13:58.46brlcadwho said he
13:58.58``Erikoh, ah, so direct, not via the proper channel
13:58.58``Erikok
14:00.40``Erikhuh, ya guys aren't using the tasker?
14:06.56``Erikman, two weeks since announcing the release...
14:17.42brlcadi use the tasker as time permits
14:17.54brlcadusing the gforge tasker for internal projects
14:29.38``Erikthe sf one has no subprojects listed o.O :)
14:30.37brlcadhmm, whatchootalking bout willis
14:30.44brlcadTODO
17:23.10``Erika/det
17:23.10``Erika/det
17:23.12``Erikghah
17:29.24CIA-5BRL-CAD: 03bob1961 * 10brlcad/src/other/iwidgets/generic/entryfield.itk: Modified the _keyPress method to propagate the <Return> event if the -command option is empty.
17:36.10CIA-5BRL-CAD: 03bob1961 * 10brlcad/src/tclscripts/archer/images/aboutArcher.png: Update to 0.7.5
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20:53.04CIA-5BRL-CAD: 03jlowenz 07trimnurbs-branch * 10brlcad/ (4 files in 3 dirs): merge from HEAD
21:08.36MaloeranAll these messages from lilo about reaching 30k users being "Kind of a nice feeling", and many others, are scary in a way... The guy seems to have dedicated his existence to the IRC network
21:40.27``Erikindeed o.O
21:41.14``ErikI've a feeling that he's 42, lives in his moms basement, and is incapable of talking in the presense of a (non-related) female o.O
21:41.18``ErikO:-)
21:53.26brlcadheh
21:53.53brlcadhe has dedicated himself to it, it's his full-time job now
21:54.47archivisthe keeps the spam bastards under control
21:54.48brlcadhe has a family too
21:56.35``Erikwho lives above him? mainly his mom? :D
21:56.37``Erik*duck*
Jeff Waugh - find it at freshmeat.net! Modified by Tim Riker to work with blootbot logs, split per channel, etc. irclog2html for #brlcad on 20060317

irclog2html for #brlcad on 20060317

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16:31.14``Erikprasad is hungry.
16:32.46idaypra5ad doesn't have his own voice?
16:33.04``Erikhe is not clever enough to be here right now
16:33.10idayheh
16:33.17``Erikso he walked into my office to get me to see if justin and/or sean were interested
16:33.18``Erikheh
16:33.29idaywhat about gym?
16:33.40MaloeranAh, so he escaped from that place called "outside" where he was trapped yesterday
16:34.11``Erikheh, apparently, mal :) he's a bit embarrased that it's common knowledge ;D
16:34.48idayiday = phcoder
16:35.07idaybut my nick was... um... taken
16:35.32``Erikahhh, with both you and sean ooo, I guess he has no will to pick heavy things up just to put them back down
16:35.54idayhah
16:36.48MaloeranYup ``Erik, it's common knowledge all the way back to Canada :)
16:37.21``Erikwhat? there's knowledge in canada? :D *duck*
16:37.58idaywhat about?
16:38.06``Erikoconus to canuckia
16:38.13idayah yes.
16:38.14``ErikI was a bit late
17:04.38``Erikmmm mmmmm, cup o' noodles.
17:10.30``Erikheh, I bought a big ol' jar of couscous and have eaten it exactly once o.O
17:11.39MaloeranAh I have mine delivered, I can't cook that well
19:04.03Twingy``Erik, you see the screenshot?
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20:23.08``Erikscreenie of what?
20:23.33``Erikbtw, I fixed that ssh thing just now... so'z you can get into that machine again
20:24.09Twingyhttp://gcam.js.cx/images/GCAM_SS_20060316.png
20:24.40``Erikgtk2, and gtkglarea?
20:24.47Twingygtkglext
20:24.59``Eriknifty
20:26.17archivist_ashbyits a png couldnt see it move
20:27.40Twingywith any luck I'll have time to get it spitting out g-code this weekend
20:33.30archivist_ashbyooo
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22:09.14pra5adfucking idiots at comast
22:09.16pra5adcomcast
22:09.20pra5adAHHHHHHh
22:09.54pra5adi ask for hdmi+dvr and they bring me a box w/o hdmi and w/o dvr
22:10.18pra5admost excellent way to spend annual leave
22:12.39docelichaha
22:23.09``Erikghah, I accidently listened to some screamo
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23:08.40``Erikghah, thanks for reminding me, jason
23:17.14Twingythat's my job
23:17.24``Eriktwinky, what dates did you reserve for?
23:17.48Twingyguess
23:17.56``Erikthe defaults?
23:18.01Twingyno
23:18.19Twingywe always leave 1 day before event, and leave the day after
23:18.25Twingy*arrive
23:19.25pra5adwouldnt that be the default
23:19.33pra5adon the hotel reservation site at least
23:20.28Twingyno
23:20.35``Erikactually, they have departure listed as the same day as the end
23:20.38Twingybecause default is leaving day OF event
23:20.47``Erikso 7/29-8/04 ?
23:20.47pra5adoh woops
23:20.52Twingysilly wabbit
23:21.18pra5adi got an F
23:24.15Twingyyou two shacking?
23:24.30pra5adnein
23:25.31pra5adheh, another guy contacts me thru gdc
23:26.29pra5adtata
23:29.59``Erikyay, I'm registered
23:30.13Twingywestin?
23:30.22``Erikyup
23:30.45``Erikhm, $64/day m&ie, if I treat it like 52, I'm good
23:31.23TwingyI can get a few steaks for that
23:31.25``Erikheh, or if I cash out the travel comp time o.O
23:31.44Twingyhow's that work?
23:32.19``Erikyou fill out fairly detailed forms for the travel (when you were where, how long  you waited for what, etc), some of it applies towards travel comp, if you let it sit for 2 months, it cashes out at overtime rates, I believe
23:32.45``Eriklast year, I did travel comp for siggraph, lee did not as he was afraid it would give 'them' an excuse not to send us next year
23:32.47Twingythat's quick
23:32.52``Erik*nod*
23:32.53Twingyregular comp time takes over 6 months
23:33.11``Erikdid it for java1, too
23:33.49``Erikit does require some detailed logging of the trip, though
23:34.09Twingymaybe I should get out my crayons then
23:35.18``Erikheh, we could try a mass justification for going over per diem, the 'actual expense' on lodging... wendy seemed to think a single large group waiver would fly o.O
23:35.51TwingyI'm not over on lodging
23:36.00Twingytherefore I don't care :)
23:36.22``Erikaight *shrug* even if you and sean could grab a second room and have private singles, instead?
23:36.37Twingyyea, he wakes my ass up when I'm too tired
23:36.46Twingy*crack*
23:36.48Twingy:)
23:36.52``Erikunless he finds someone elses room to crash in ;) *duck*
23:37.08Twingyhey, I'm down with sloppy seconds
23:37.37``Erikwould be a step up from last year? *duck* *run* :D
23:37.39Twingyand in that case I'd have a quad to myself, heh
23:37.55TwingyI called about suits
23:37.59Twingy~$1200 a night
23:38.04Twingysuites
23:38.06``Erikyowch
23:38.40``Erikand I assume they dont' have 8 beds? heh
23:38.51Twingywe could probly get one with 7 people staying in one
23:38.58``Erikthat'd be over per diem
23:39.04Twingythat's alright
23:39.06Twingyit's a suite
23:39.13Twingyyou are so finicky about money you know that :)
23:39.38``Erikum, heh, I'm paying over per diem for this lodging, you're not, dude
23:40.00``Erikalso; I have responsibilities now, I can't be throwing money around like you
23:40.01Twingyso shack up with jason, prasaid, mike or tim
23:40.14Twingyheh, responsitibilities *snicker*
23:40.15``ErikI have to be a grown-up... my baby's depending on me
23:40.39Twingyyou irc'ing from the garage?
23:40.46``Erikalways
23:40.50``Eriko.O kitchen, actually
23:40.54``Erikit was a metaphorical pet
23:41.22``Erikdr who at 9
23:41.30Twingyyea, looks like total suckage though
23:41.44``Erikit might be... the new doc seems like a yokel goob
23:41.53``Erikand; he ain't baker.
23:42.08TwingyI should call chuck
23:42.15``Erikhe's busy playing tribes, or working
23:44.11``Erikso what're you gonna do if sean gives you a hitler?:D
23:44.26TwingyI'll be drunk, I won't care
23:44.55Twingybut after the trip I'll smash his flat panels :)
23:46.26Twingydon't spill any teqilla on it
23:46.34Twingy*tequilla
23:46.43``Erikpjt bounced back my oconus with a couple really minor changes today, I THINK he may've signed it to send off to the expanse
23:46.53``Erik*splash* *ZZZTTTTTT*
23:56.57Twingytsp did well this week
23:59.52TwingyI suspect I will hit 40k on my tsp sometime this year
Jeff Waugh - find it at freshmeat.net! Modified by Tim Riker to work with blootbot logs, split per channel, etc. irclog2html for #brlcad on 20060318

irclog2html for #brlcad on 20060318

00:04.05TwingyI think I'm gonna work on my cam software tonight
00:14.31Twingywelp, I'm done work for the day
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Jeff Waugh - find it at freshmeat.net! Modified by Tim Riker to work with blootbot logs, split per channel, etc. irclog2html for #brlcad on 20060319

irclog2html for #brlcad on 20060319

02:08.05*** join/#brlcad pra5ad (n=pra5ad@pool-141-157-106-216.balt.east.verizon.net)
04:20.21Twingywoo
06:18.31*** join/#brlcad birdmun (n=birdmun@ppp-70-255-21-2.dsl.spfdmo.swbell.net)
06:19.00birdmunso i generated a rim but each time i draw it i get an error msg
06:19.05birdmunWarning:  region unioned into region at '/finhub1.c/hub1.c/fullhub1.r/hubfr1.r', lower region info ignored
06:19.24birdmunany good ways to avoid this in the future?
06:31.42Twingyhrm
06:32.02Twingyif I were coherent I could help you
06:39.06birdmuni understand :)
06:39.37birdmuni have logging enabled ... even if i dont get a response in the next couple hours i will still be able to find it
06:40.31Twingystop back at 12PM EST
06:40.37Twingypeople will be awake then
06:40.52birdmunnp
07:13.49brlcadbirdmun: yes, don't make regions out of regions :)
07:14.24brlcadmarking something as a region is what defines that object as taking up physical space
07:14.45brlcadin any given CSG hierarchy, there should only be one region along any given path down the hierarchy
07:15.11brlcadyou have two there.. fullhub1.r unioned hubfr1.r.. it shouldn't
07:15.40brlcadit should either union what's inside hubfb1.r or hubfb1.r shouldn't be a region in the first place
07:16.30brlcadall depends on the model as for what's the best solution
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07:25.49birdmun_what i did was made a cylinder and then removed two cylinders from it ... one on each side
07:26.02birdmun_so i was disconnected for a few moments what did i miss?
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14:43.10brlcadbirdmun_: from the sound of it, there is likely that there was nothing wrong with your CSG operations
14:43.25brlcadjust an error in how you're using/understanding what it means to be a region
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14:58.12brlcadtakes a while for new modelers, but think of the difference as being a pattern for a shape versus being actual material
17:27.01birdmun_ok can i add a region to a region ?
17:28.15birdmun_if i would have removed the inside from a cylinder and then added the center of the rim as a completed unit ... design, bolt holes and all
18:18.55brlcadyou can add a region to a region, but you're not supposed to -- you should only add combinations to regions and regions to combinations
18:19.03brlcador combinations to combinations
18:19.11brlcadbut not regions to regions
18:19.59brlcadagain it has nothing to do with the CSG operation -- you can remove insides, add to the center, etc.. none of that is a problem
18:20.14brlcadthe problem is at what level in the hierarchy are you calling objects a region
18:22.27brlcadyou might benefit from not having/using any regions for starters until the modeling hierarchy is a little more familiar
19:31.42birdmun_alright
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Jeff Waugh - find it at freshmeat.net! Modified by Tim Riker to work with blootbot logs, split per channel, etc. irclog2html for #brlcad on 20060320

irclog2html for #brlcad on 20060320

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05:25.26pra5ad-sj=)
05:54.30brlcadheh
06:09.19pra5ad-sjthey gave me an equinox
06:09.24pra5ad-sjim not an suv person
06:10.49pra5ad-sjheh so i go looking for food and stumble across ebay HQ
06:11.15pra5ad-sjthey have signs all over that says "we're hiring"
06:21.49pra5ad-sjomg there's a japanese channel
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16:10.41MaloeranJustin or Erik, are you nearby?
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20:14.44tegtmeyebrlcad, killed it again, can you reset? Sorry;)
20:23.41brlcaddone
20:23.51tegtmeyethanks
20:28.51tegtmeyethe server appears to be dead.
20:28.59tegtmeyehttp that is...
21:21.15brlcadpra5ad: how is it?
22:01.14tegtmeyeeh?
22:15.49``Eriko.O
22:30.44CIA-5BRL-CAD: 03jlowenz 07trimnurbs-branch * 10brlcad/include/nurb.h: added new nurbs function declarations
22:33.19CIA-5BRL-CAD: 03jlowenz 07trimnurbs-branch * 10brlcad/src/librt/g_nurb.c: fixed function names to make more sense
22:33.37CIA-5BRL-CAD: 03jlowenz 07trimnurbs-branch * 10brlcad/src/librt/nurb_util.c: fixed function name to make more sense; fixed compiler warning
22:50.47tegtmeyeworked thanks...
Jeff Waugh - find it at freshmeat.net! Modified by Tim Riker to work with blootbot logs, split per channel, etc. irclog2html for #brlcad on 20060321

irclog2html for #brlcad on 20060321

03:16.45*** join/#brlcad pra5ad-sj (n=prasad@205-179-79-138.client.dsl.net)
03:17.15pra5ad-sjso i got a potential customer for pvt
03:17.16pra5ad-sjlol
03:35.49brlcadyou're supposed to stay logged in all day to provide streaming updates
03:36.12brlcadphotos of the good stuff
03:36.19brlcadrunning commentary
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03:41.11pra5ad-sjdude no wifi till weds
03:41.18pra5ad-sjuntil expo starts
03:41.31pra5ad-sjand nothing worth of any pics =(
03:41.43pra5ad-sjwell not yet; besides maybe the cg gallery
03:42.13pra5ad-sji was pitching damage models to redstorm (of rainbow six fame)
03:42.20pra5ad-sjgot contacts
03:42.58pra5ad-sjtalked to a guy from intel research
03:43.13jbabcockhi folks, are there any recommended tutorials/docs for a neophyte other than what's available at http://www.brlcad.org/?
03:43.19pra5ad-sjwants to know my 'requirements' for realtime raytracing h/w
03:52.27brlcadjbabcock: those are the usual starting points
03:52.39brlcadthere's also help inside of mged on the help menu, albeit slightly dated
03:52.49jbabcockok, thanks. Already looking over them.
03:53.23pra5ad-sjtomorrow is m$ day
03:53.25pra5ad-sj=(
03:56.17brlcadjbabcock: there's a pretty nice and short tutorial here too: http://sourceforge.net/forum/forum.php?thread_id=1447646&forum_id=362509
03:56.45jbabcockthanks
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03:58.04brlcadpra5ad: until the expo starts? that's odd ..
03:58.35pra5ad-sjyea
03:58.41pra5ad-sjim sorta dissapointed
03:58.54pra5ad-sjit doesnt look to be well organized
03:58.59pra5ad-sjat least not as well as J1
03:59.07brlcadheh
03:59.21brlcadit also costs less than a third iirc
03:59.22pra5ad-sjim not knocking the subject matter =)
03:59.46pra5ad-sjj1? twice as much
03:59.53brlcadonly twice? :)
03:59.58pra5ad-sjheh
04:00.14pra5ad-sji can compare siggraph in august
04:00.24brlcadsiggraph is usually massively well organized
04:00.35pra5ad-sjwe'll see how 1/3price affects it
04:00.49pra5ad-sjheh m$ are such bastards
04:00.56pra5ad-sjright in the middle of the convention center
04:00.59pra5ad-sja wet bar
04:01.03pra5ad-sji mean wtf
04:01.43brlcadheh, excellent
04:01.53pra5ad-sjim gonna be in line on weds .. early morning
04:02.00pra5ad-sjschwag raid
04:02.21brlcadhm
04:02.36brlcadjust remember
04:02.41pra5ad-sjwant an XNA cd? got one with the crappy reg stuff
04:02.46brlcadwhat happens in san jose stays in san jose
04:03.08pra5ad-sjthis place is desolate
04:03.22pra5ad-sjevery restaurant here is empty
04:03.37brlcadhow big has the conference gotten?
04:03.42brlcadcouple thousand?
04:03.51brlcadguess the expo opening will be th most telling
04:03.52pra5ad-sjyea sounds about right
04:04.02pra5ad-sjnot many mon/tues
04:04.07pra5ad-sjlots for the expo
04:04.14pra5ad-sjand the keynotes, im sure
04:04.28pra5ad-sjcant wait till friday
04:04.45pra5ad-sjim gonna bug scea about my cell dev kit
04:04.47pra5ad-sj=)
04:04.49brlcadcan't imagine it's as big as siggraph yet
04:04.54pra5ad-sjoh hell no
04:04.59pra5ad-sjj1 was bigger
04:05.28brlcadyou hear/remember the official stat on how many attended j1 last year?
04:05.42pra5ad-sjdont remember
04:05.47pra5ad-sji think 2-3k?
04:06.14pra5ad-sji remember someone saying it was way smaller than siggraph
04:06.16pra5ad-sjso *shrug*
04:06.30pra5ad-sjSJ is one clean city tho
04:06.37pra5ad-sjthe light rail is awesome
04:07.24brlcadmm, sun says j1 was about 15k last year..
04:07.42pra5ad-sjhmm interesting
04:07.47pra5ad-sjsum of 5 days? heh
04:07.55pra5ad-sji certainly didnt see 15k ppl
04:08.00brlcadundoubtedly includes everyone that just passes through the expo floor
04:08.37pra5ad-sjman most of the coders from the big houses
04:08.42pra5ad-sjlike bioware and bethesda
04:08.50pra5ad-sjhavent seen a treadmill in ages
04:09.06pra5ad-sjheehee
04:09.21brlcadnot too unbelievable, siggraph 2005 was about 30k
04:09.35brlcadi can imagine..
04:09.46pra5ad-sjlots of koreans and japanese here
04:10.08pra5ad-sji cant seem to find the square-enix ppl
04:13.35pra5ad-sjdont really care much for the gpgpu stuff
04:14.16pra5ad-sjwent to the 'embodied agents in games' tutorial
04:14.22pra5ad-sj8hrs of powerpoint...
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Jeff Waugh - find it at freshmeat.net! Modified by Tim Riker to work with blootbot logs, split per channel, etc. irclog2html for #brlcad on 20060322

irclog2html for #brlcad on 20060322

00:10.45*** join/#brlcad Twingy (n=justin@c-68-33-163-43.hsd1.md.comcast.net)
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03:20.50Twingyhey mal
03:21.04MaloeranHi Justin, having fun with xml then? :)
03:21.22Twingyno, gtk+ switch from item factory to xml shit for menu bars
03:21.56TwingyI'm disgruntled cause I have to press buttons on my keyboard to fix
03:22.10TwingyI'd rather be eating rice krispy treats
03:22.11MaloeranI personally never got the interest about xml, besides being slow to parse, akward and huge in size
03:22.17MaloeranEheh
03:47.44brlcadmm.. rice krispies
03:56.28Twingymmm fig newtony goodness *Drool*
03:57.57*** join/#brlcad pra5ad-sj (n=prasad@205-179-79-138.client.dsl.net)
03:58.02pra5ad-sjarrr
03:58.02Twingyhrm, I need to find a nice pool table
03:58.37pra5ad-sji need business cards
03:58.51Twingy"Professional Male Slut" ?
03:58.52pra5ad-sjfeel so ashamed saying 'uh.. i dont have one'
03:58.54Twingy:)
03:59.29pra5ad-sjso two new contacts today
03:59.36pra5ad-sjsaic and zombie games
03:59.48pra5ad-sjthey've apparently created a game based on fcs
03:59.53pra5ad-sjlooks interesting
03:59.58pra5ad-sjwill get demo soon
04:00.15Twingywhut's fcs
04:00.20pra5ad-sjit's more pr than anything else; but playable
04:00.28pra5ad-sjfuture combat systems?
04:00.37Twingyoh, FCS
04:00.45pra5ad-sj.. yes
04:01.08pra5ad-sjspent the day at the serious games summit
04:01.15pra5ad-sjlots of fluff talk by academics
04:01.20Twingyis that where you are?
04:01.23pra5ad-sjquite amusing
04:01.36pra5ad-sjnaw, no wifi until tomorrow
04:01.41pra5ad-sjwhen expo starts
04:01.55Twingyheh, I thought you were upstairs today, hehe
04:02.18pra5ad-sjwont be until next week ;)
04:02.33TwingyI think dixie is missing a tps report from you
04:02.39pra5ad-sjgot two books on opengl and realistic rendering
04:02.41Twingyj/k :)
04:02.45pra5ad-sjim sure she is
04:02.52pra5ad-sjand she cant do a damn thing about it
04:03.12pra5ad-sjfound a way to render csg in opengl
04:03.21pra5ad-sjgonna implement that when i get back just for kicks
04:03.55Twingyusing depth and stencil buffer me thinks
04:04.44pra5ad-sjheh it sucks not being a real game designer; dont have anything to say to em besides the ones involved with dod or military based tactical shooters
04:04.50pra5ad-sjand i already met them all
04:04.54pra5ad-sjTwingy, yea
04:06.04brlcadi miss my pool table
04:06.16pra5ad-sjand all i can really ask them is 'uh.. u guys need a better damage model?'
04:06.23brlcadbut man is that a bear to move.. worse than a piano
04:06.55Twingyworse than moving a couch downstairs?
04:07.00Twingyby yourself? :)
04:07.00brlcadyeah
04:07.53pra5ad-sjwhy are u moving pool tables by urself
04:07.58brlcadthey're several hundred pounds heavy, the really nice ones have a solid slab of granite or other marble for the surface
04:08.37Twingythe alternative is to install a slip n' slide in the basement
04:08.50pra5ad-sjheh tegtmeye should be here
04:08.52pra5ad-sjc++ heaven
04:11.13pra5ad-sjohh gdc synopsis on /.
04:11.41Twingyany cute chicks there?
04:12.40pra5ad-sjsure; the wannabe hippie artsy types
04:12.53pra5ad-sjself proclaimed game designing gods
04:13.29TwingyglBegin(GL_Polygamy);
04:13.29pra5ad-sj=)
04:14.35pra5ad-sju know, from the descriptions of siggraph that uve given me, i can say that gdc is inching closer to that demographic
04:14.58pra5ad-sjthere are less programmers than biz/arts/designer types
04:16.22pra5ad-sjhah http://games.slashdot.org/games/06/03/21/220232.shtml
04:16.30pra5ad-sji was at the jesper juul talk
04:16.47pra5ad-sjhe was trying to answer 'can a video game make you cry'
04:17.11pra5ad-sjand his conclusion was - only user created content makes ppl cry
04:17.17pra5ad-sjwhich is such bullshit
04:17.41pra5ad-sjmore fud from academia
04:17.50MaloeranI remember feeling tears from ff6 on snes
04:18.03TwingyI suspect if the video game sprayed mace in your face everytime your character died you would cry o.O
04:18.04pra5ad-sjsame with ff7
04:18.16brlcadthe artsy side of siggraph sure makes for better eye candy
04:18.25pra5ad-sjno doubt
04:18.29brlcadespecially the artsy attendees
04:18.36Twingymmm artsy attendees
04:18.43Twingy...in the cute little vests
04:18.58Twingytwo chick at the same time man
04:19.10pra5ad-sjin one vest?
04:19.17brlcadheh, that was on just yesterday
04:19.25brlcadsci fi was playing it i think
04:19.28Twingywatch your cornhole prasad
04:19.32brlcadheh
04:19.53pra5ad-sjchappelle?
04:20.13pra5ad-sj.. is not sci fi
04:20.57pra5ad-sjsci fi played that?
04:20.59brlcaddon't worry pra5ad, they let you have conjugial visits
04:21.14brlcad~spell conjugal
04:21.17pra5ad-sjmmm kay
04:21.47pra5ad-sjhows ARHelL
04:22.00brlcadpeachy
04:22.14pra5ad-sjhmph
04:22.31pra5ad-sjthere's gonna be about 20 booths with recruiters
04:22.37pra5ad-sjfor major companies
04:22.43pra5ad-sjgame* companies
04:22.47pra5ad-sjand i have 0 resumes
04:22.48brlcadthat's a meat grinder
04:23.04pra5ad-sjnot that i have a chance anyways =)
04:25.14MaloeranI would expect ARL's research to be more satisfying than highly controlled and stressing game programming
04:25.15Twingyyou could always try and give one of the booth people a happy ending
04:26.30pra5ad-sjstress trying to meet deadlines or trying to hurdle over miles of red tape
04:26.31Twingysean, I'm going to advocate sgi machins running BeOS in our meeting tomorrow just to play with drew
04:26.36pra5ad-sj*shrug*
04:27.41pra5ad-sjheh i ran into a java game that i first saw as an alpha test at javaone2005
04:27.50pra5ad-sjlooks like they're in final beta
04:27.58pra5ad-sjwww.tribaltrouble.com
04:28.08pra5ad-sjuses jogl
04:29.01brlcadTwingy: hehe
04:29.10brlcadthat'd be awesome
04:29.21brlcadprobably would run faster
04:29.33brlcadif such a beast were possible
04:30.16pra5ad-sjman if i ever get the damn cell dev kit and port adrt or whatever distributed rt on it
04:30.20Twingyif we can talk steve into a 12 node linux machine, I might be tempted to go with that over the apple :)
04:30.38pra5ad-sjARL will be going to e3 2k6 or gdc 2k7
04:30.50Twingyyou mean you will?
04:30.54Twingy:)
04:31.10pra5ad-sjnah
04:31.15pra5ad-sju can talk about the guts of it
04:31.19brlcadcan't imagine easily justifying e3
04:31.21pra5ad-sjill just talk about the portage
04:31.28brlcadunless you're presenting
04:31.29pra5ad-sjhey, if we get invited...
04:31.31pra5ad-sjyes
04:32.11pra5ad-sjand im damn sure sony wants some sort of 'killer app' for the ps3
04:32.23pra5ad-sjsomething that'll warrant this delay
04:32.43pra5ad-sjand something that'll show the 'power' of the ppu/spus
04:33.48MaloeranCell really is a nice architecture, perfect on the ISA side of things. Unified memory banks, Itanium-style, could have been nicer though... for ray-tracing anyway :)
04:34.21pra5ad-sjhehe
04:34.44pra5ad-sjwhen i talked to the intel guy yesteday
04:34.53pra5ad-sj(not sure if i said this already but..)
04:35.00pra5ad-sjhe said intel was more afraid of cell than amd
04:35.07pra5ad-sjer whatever amd is putting out
04:35.24MaloeranThey should be, AMD is stuck within the standards Intel created and it greatly limits performance
04:36.23MaloeranCell is an excellent architecture designed from scratch, it's about time IBM shows Intel what a good standard looks like
04:37.18pra5ad-sjthis is unofficial but, he mentioned having a microengine in future chips
04:37.19MaloeranThe only "flaws" might be the 32 bits addressing and the chip-specific memory banks, but it's a tradeoff
04:37.38pra5ad-sj3 gp cores and an app specific one
04:37.55pra5ad-sjthat'd be interesting to see
04:38.05pra5ad-sjtho i dont think that'll come to fruition
04:38.31MaloeranThere are verious serious flaws within ia32/amd64 that prevent any kind of scability like Cell allows
04:38.53MaloeranIntel fixed the scability issues with Itanium, but they messed up horribly on other points
04:39.44pra5ad-sjhmm i really should read up on cell's isa
04:39.50pra5ad-sjgot a link handy?
04:40.08MaloeranHum I don't have that bookmarked, it shouldn't be hard to find
04:41.40MaloeranFar superior in design and usability to Altivec, I wouldn't dare comparing SSE against Cell
06:00.58pra5ad-sjhow do i batch rename a bunch of jpgs that have spaces in the filename
06:02.02Twingyfind . -exec mv {} `sed s/ //g {}` \;
06:02.14Twingymight wanna through a -name "*.jpg"
06:02.23Twingyfind . -name "*.jpg" -exec mv {} `sed s/ //g {}` \;
06:07.20pra5ad-sj:. find . -name "*.jpg" -exec mv {} `sed s/ //g {}` \;
06:07.20pra5ad-sjsed: -e expression #1, char 2: unterminated `s' command
06:07.20pra5ad-sjmv: missing file argument
06:08.33Twingyoh yea, the brackets
06:10.47pra5ad-sj?
06:11.54Twingychatting, afk
06:48.47CIA-5BRL-CAD: 03brlcad 07rel-7-6-branch * 10brlcad/configure.ac: more detail on the libtool cc1plus bug, fixed in libtool 1.5.10 but broken in previous versions where a c++ compiler becomes required.. try to bypass the error by aliasing cc1plus to cc1 (untested)
06:48.58Twingyk
06:48.58Twingyuh
06:55.54CIA-5BRL-CAD: 03brlcad 07rel-7-6-branch * 10brlcad/configure.ac: erp, previous commit included a conflicted merge from head .. unconflict
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16:58.17CIA-5BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/sh/tracker.sh:
16:58.17CIA-5BRL-CAD: initial script that interacts with the Sourceforge website and extracts data
16:58.17CIA-5BRL-CAD: from the trackers available for a given project. the tracker data is
16:58.17CIA-5BRL-CAD: conglomerated into a CSV file suitable for import into a spreadsheet
16:58.17CIA-5BRL-CAD: application.
16:59.18CIA-5BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/sh/Makefile.am: include the new tracker.sh in the distribution, install it
17:02.50CIA-5BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/NEWS: new tracker tool for extracting sf.net tracker data
19:17.16*** join/#brlcad cad998 (n=54e7b138@bz.bzflag.bz)
20:50.11*** join/#brlcad daggerr (n=daggerr@c83-248-174-134.bredband.comhem.se)
21:04.54CIA-5BRL-CAD: 03jlowenz 07trimnurbs-branch * 10brlcad/include/Makefile.am: added the rt.h header so it would be installed
21:06.01CIA-5BRL-CAD: 03jlowenz 07trimnurbs-branch * 10brlcad/include/nurb.h: Added magic check for trim_contour struct.
21:06.54CIA-5BRL-CAD: 03jlowenz 07trimnurbs-branch * 10brlcad/src/librt/nurb_util.c: Added function to free trim_contour structure, and the list of curves it contains.
Jeff Waugh - find it at freshmeat.net! Modified by Tim Riker to work with blootbot logs, split per channel, etc. irclog2html for #brlcad on 20060323

irclog2html for #brlcad on 20060323

00:00.24*** join/#brlcad daggerr_ (n=daggerr@c83-248-174-134.bredband.comhem.se)
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01:21.35*** join/#brlcad CIA-5 (i=cia@cia.navi.cx)
02:19.52*** join/#brlcad pra5ad-sj (n=prasad@205-179-79-138.client.dsl.net)
02:19.57pra5ad-sjagh
02:19.59pra5ad-sjso tired
02:20.10pra5ad-sjps3 keynote was cool
02:20.23pra5ad-sji swear if phil harrison was selling dog shit ppl would buy it
02:20.31pra5ad-sjgreat spokesman
02:20.38pra5ad-sjmotorstorm looked FANTASTIC
02:29.34``Erikbring me back a boothbabe or 3
02:29.46``Erik(or does gdc have those?)
02:53.10Twingymy pbring me back a bag of dog shit
02:55.53pra5ad-sjheh only s3 had them
02:55.59pra5ad-sjand this korean publisher
02:56.01pra5ad-sjvenus something
02:56.17pra5ad-sjnoone really cared tho heh
02:58.48``Erikmmmm, korean girls...
02:59.39pra5ad-sji got the runaround at the ps3 booth
02:59.42Twingyoh man
02:59.43Twingythat's nasty
03:00.01pra5ad-sjnow i gotta go hunt this guy to order a ps3 dev kit
03:00.09pra5ad-sj$5k says phil harrison
03:01.52pra5ad-sjrofl twas funny going around the 'career growth' booths for the big names and asking what their dmg models were
03:01.59pra5ad-sjHR ppl are funny
03:02.19pra5ad-sj'um.. are you looking for a job?'
03:02.22pra5ad-sjheehee
03:02.58pra5ad-sjredstorm's booth had a dev who knew his shit
03:03.10pra5ad-sjtalked about what they were doing in sp/mp modes
03:03.22CIA-5BRL-CAD: 03johnranderson * 10brlcad/src/librt/db_tree.c:
03:03.22CIA-5BRL-CAD: db_recurse() was trying to free an rt_db_internal that might not have
03:03.22CIA-5BRL-CAD: anything in it (bug #1220146)
03:03.26pra5ad-sjthey want to have a dialogue on it
03:03.39pra5ad-sjgood opportunity me thinks
03:04.04pra5ad-sjgarage games' booth was very disspointing
03:04.10pra5ad-sjlegions was bleh
03:04.22pra5ad-sjit was nothing more than a tech demo
03:04.26pra5ad-sja simple one at that
03:05.40pra5ad-sji was also at the AI roundtable
03:06.09pra5ad-sjone academic was talking about using a ps3 to replace his cluster for GA/ANN simulations
03:09.52brlcadjohn rocks
03:11.08pra5ad-sjhey sean
03:11.10pra5ad-sjsee my email?
03:11.34brlcadyeah
03:11.38pra5ad-sjheh
03:11.56brlcadso you're going to start listening
03:12.00brlcadbridge that abyss
03:12.02pra5ad-sji have no motivation to do what he suggested
03:12.11pra5ad-sjso no
03:12.12pra5ad-sj=)
03:12.51brlcadmissed an excellent biceps/triceps pairing today
03:12.58pra5ad-sjdont u think that role should be taken by the PM?
03:13.07brlcadno comment
03:13.14pra5ad-sjwha
03:28.32pra5ad-sjo yea
03:28.46pra5ad-sjthere were these ppl with endlagnow.org signs
03:28.50pra5ad-sjhehe
03:30.04pra5ad-sjoh it's an actualy site :o
03:30.08pra5ad-sj-y
04:24.15CIA-5BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/NEWS:
04:24.15CIA-5BRL-CAD: john fixed the mged crash bug where running the B command on bad geometry would
04:24.15CIA-5BRL-CAD: cause the crash. he reports that This was caused by a bug in db_recurse() where
04:24.15CIA-5BRL-CAD: it would try to free an rt_db_internal even when there was nothing to free. The
04:24.15CIA-5BRL-CAD: fix was to check that there is actually something there before freeing. This
04:24.17CIA-5BRL-CAD: eliminates the crashing, but the bad geometry will still not be drawn. (fixes sf
04:24.19CIA-5BRL-CAD: bug 1220146, reported by Karel Kulhavy - clock3)
04:34.39*** join/#brlcad DTRemenak (n=DTRemena@c-67-187-164-66.hsd1.ca.comcast.net)
05:19.13pra5ad-sjretired john?
05:20.41Twingy
05:36.14pra5ad-sjah yes.. knew i forgot something
05:36.27pra5ad-sjwarhawk uses a raytracer to render volumetric clouds
05:36.35pra5ad-sjwill use*
05:36.43pra5ad-sjand the raytracer is running on a single spu
05:36.52pra5ad-sjthe demo was proof of it
05:37.00pra5ad-sjand looks well integrated
07:34.30*** join/#brlcad daggerr (n=daggerr@c83-248-174-134.bredband.comhem.se)
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17:01.14tegtmeyeshe has no idea what she is talking about
20:42.48CIA-5BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/configure.ac: itcl/tk needs to match tcl/tk building default of 'on' until the bugs are sorted out
23:23.38Twingymmm dinner
23:23.57tegtmeyeuh, I guess it *is* time to go home eh?
23:24.58Twingyonly if you feel like being home I suppose :)
23:25.44tegtmeyegirls feel better at home...
23:26.30Twingycompared to at work?
23:27.34tegtmeyedo you *need* me to enumerate the women at work?
23:28.05Twingywhat, you don't find darlene attractive?
23:28.13Twingyyou had me fooled :)
23:28.17tegtmeyelol
23:29.40*** join/#brlcad rogier (n=rogier@16-65-dsl.ipact.nl)
23:40.30``Erikhah
Jeff Waugh - find it at freshmeat.net! Modified by Tim Riker to work with blootbot logs, split per channel, etc. irclog2html for #brlcad on 20060324

irclog2html for #brlcad on 20060324

00:14.19*** join/#brlcad rogier (n=rogier@16-65-dsl.ipact.nl)
00:26.17CIA-5BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/rt/rtarea.1: -v for viewsize is not longer that option
01:18.19*** join/#brlcad tegtmeye_ (n=tegtmeye@pool-71-248-83-186.bltmmd.east.verizon.net)
01:55.29*** join/#brlcad DTRemenak (n=DTRemena@c-67-187-164-66.hsd1.ca.comcast.net)
03:21.28*** join/#brlcad prasad (n=prasad@205-179-79-138.client.dsl.net)
03:21.41prasadim turning into a marketing schill
03:21.52prasadtrying to sell a product that doesnt exist
03:26.12Twingythen hurry up and write it
03:27.49prasadi told them justin shumaker was lead engineer
03:27.55prasadand to direct all technical questions to him
03:28.00prasadand gave them ur cell #
03:28.07Twingygood, cause I can get the shit done :)
03:28.19prasad;)
03:28.26prasadso yea
03:28.32Twingyokay, living room is all torn up
03:28.40prasadsony is being a little bitch
03:28.40Twingyprobly not as bad as mikes
03:28.53prasadwont sell me the dev kit unless i pose as a middleware company
03:29.05prasadnow can i do that w/o arl backing?
03:29.05Twingyso start a middleware company? :)
03:29.06prasad=)
03:29.16prasadu got venture capital?
03:29.23Twingycost you $125 to register a company in deleware
03:29.24prasadif so, lets do it
03:29.39Twingyyou don't need vc
03:29.49prasaddev kit costs $$
03:29.51prasadu got $5k?
03:29.58Twingybittorent
03:30.01prasadthat's the price point in 2 weeks
03:30.08Twingyyea :)
03:30.16prasadyes.. bittorrent hardware..
03:30.30Twingywouldn't spend it on that junk though
03:30.48TwingyI'd rather get a new dining room set and hardwood floor
03:30.54Twingy:)
03:30.57prasadim sure i can get wendy to buy one
03:31.03Twingyhah
03:31.06Twingyhaha
03:31.07prasadposing as a middleware company might cause her to implode
03:31.16prasadu know it's on my objectives right?
03:31.21Twingyshe is faaaaar to risk adverse
03:31.22prasadacquiring cell hardware?
03:31.30Twingyyou'd have better luck getting it through bill
03:31.48prasadim allowed to circumvent the branch chief?
03:31.48Twingyhe seems to be uncle warbucks lately
03:31.59Twingyno, but it didn't stop me with alexis
03:32.14Twingyshe just doesn't know what's good for her
03:32.26prasadi didnt follow ur previous comment
03:32.35prasadu convinced her to bring on board alexis
03:32.35TwingyI didn't expect you to
03:32.44Twingythat's the perception, yes :)
03:32.59prasadwell i convinced wendy to send me to gdc
03:33.04prasadso i have something going for me
03:33.05prasad=)
03:33.08Twingycause it's training
03:33.14Twingywhere's wendy today
03:33.15Twingytraining
03:33.19prasadheh
03:33.20Twingybig surprise!
03:33.49prasadthe sony guy was telling me about a company called mercury or something like that
03:33.51prasadfrom germany
03:33.56prasadthat does real time rt
03:33.58TwingyI herd of them
03:34.05Twingyfrom siggraph 04 and 05
03:34.07prasadapparently showcased at siggraph
03:34.09prasadah
03:34.33Twingyyartc
03:34.43prasadso i have an intel and sony contact
03:35.03prasadwaiting for ibm to email me back about dev kits
03:35.14Twingyfind any women?
03:35.20prasadnop
03:35.27Twingysheesh
03:35.35prasadu shouldnt be talking
03:35.38prasad=)
03:35.39Twingyhey
03:35.58Twingylast siggraph woulda been perfect if she didn't have a kid
03:36.10prasaduh huh
03:36.16Twingythere's always boston
03:36.26Twingyso I get to spin the wheel of siggraph again
03:36.30prasadheh u guys should see the will wright keynote
03:36.33prasadfucking hilarious
03:36.47prasadguy started talking about the russian space program
03:36.49prasadout of the blue
03:36.55Twingyyou wanna see a good keynote, check out bruce sterlings from siggraph '04
03:36.58prasadalong with other random topics
03:37.08Twingyit'll keep you thinking long after you're done watching it
03:37.09prasadhey nintendo's keynote was excellent
03:37.35prasadthey'll support all *NES games AND all SEGA saturn games
03:37.41prasader the revolution will
03:38.05TwingyI wonder if I'll ever play video games again
03:38.17Twingyyou know I haven't played one in over a year?
03:38.20prasadm$ has already lost the war
03:38.24prasadit's nintendo vs sony
03:38.34Twingyactually, I played 10 minutes of tux racer this year
03:38.41prasaddidnt u play gta recently
03:38.53Twingyit's still sitting on the floor
03:38.58prasadoh yea.. nvidia's "advanced rendering effects" lecture was such BS
03:39.03TwingyI played that for 30 minutes at a friends house
03:39.14prasadit turned out to be a sales pitch for the havok fx physics engine
03:39.15Twingyheh
03:39.18prasadthat runs on the nvidia gpu
03:39.21prasadsorta cool
03:39.28prasadbut come on..
03:39.33TwingyI'm sooooooooo over tooty fruity graphics tricks no matter how much math they try to soil it with
03:39.42prasadand i was one # away from getting that 7800gt in the raffele
03:39.45prasad:o
03:39.59prasadim with u
03:40.07prasadthat's why i want rt hardware
03:40.17Twingythat's for the quasi-mathematicians
03:40.30prasad?
03:40.41TwingyI'm more interested in engineering the appropriate hardware to solve my problems
03:41.02prasadim trying to do the same thing with hardware
03:41.08Twingy(assuming it cannot be done in a respectable manner on a general purpose cpu)
03:41.18prasadarent u bandwidth limited?
03:41.25prasadwhat's the peak fps
03:41.29prasadfor stryker
03:41.44Twingyif siggraph spent all the man hours on quantum computing rather than graphics tricks, we'd be in a different era
03:41.56Twingy1 node or cluster?
03:42.01prasadcluster
03:42.11Twingyoh, I can push 25 fps on the new cluster I think
03:42.14prasadand what's the performance of 4 nodes vs 6 vs 8
03:42.20Twingywith alexis's that's about 150 fps
03:42.32prasad25 bandwidth limited or are u not saturating the gig e?
03:42.37Twingyit's 90% linear
03:42.48TwingyI'm not even close to saturdation
03:42.56prasadack
03:43.02prasadi thought u were
03:43.03prasadhmph
03:43.05Twingynope
03:43.11Twingyeverything is compressed
03:43.23prasadzlib?
03:43.24Twingyeven uncompressed it'd take like 32 nodes to get close
03:43.26Twingyyes
03:43.30Twingyit's lame, but it works
03:43.32prasadwhats the compression overhead
03:43.38Twingyminimal
03:43.38Twingylike 10%
03:43.43prasadk
03:44.04Twingywait till you see alexis's stuff
03:44.16Twingyas much as a difference I made between adrt and brl-cad
03:44.20prasadive been asking for a demo since forever
03:44.22Twingythere will be between adrt and alexis's stuff
03:44.35TwingyI'm not at liberty to hand one out
03:45.37prasadthe only way i can get the ps3 dev kit is if i pose as a middleware person who can guarantee an RT api that runs on cell
03:46.12prasadgood performance on 4 spus will be ideal
03:46.20TwingyI might be able to help you out
03:46.28Twingytalk to me next week
03:46.33prasadall it needs is to maintain 30fps
03:46.37prasadhdmi standard
03:46.43Twingysure, but talk to me next week
03:46.47prasadk
03:47.01prasadill hold off on talking to the sony rep till then
03:47.36TwingyI'd say there's a 70% chance we could get it based on new things happening
03:47.49prasadnew things where
03:48.06Twingyin land of arl from high above
03:48.11prasadi see
03:49.06Twingyyou could potentially work with alexis on this
03:49.31prasadtrue
03:49.46Twingyhe is your best resource
03:49.54prasadbut how do i get the go ahead from management
03:50.07prasadunless u mean circumvent arl altogether
03:50.10Twingythat's not an irc conversation
03:50.13Twingyno, it's legit
03:50.19prasadoh interesting
03:50.22prasadk we'll talk later
03:50.43Twingyyea
03:51.13Twingyif I were to guess, it'd be 4 - 8 months before you got it
03:51.56prasadheh
03:53.19prasadnow selling this api will be pretty hard as a primary renderer
03:53.36Twingydo you know how to check your priv msgs?
03:53.40prasadcompletely discarding the rsx will be very bad
03:53.56prasaddid u pm the wrong nick?
03:54.02pra5ad-sjpm me
03:54.28Twingyare you registered with nick serv?
03:54.35pra5ad-sjgah
03:54.57pra5ad-sju on aim?
03:55.01Twingyyes
04:06.36brlcadbruce sterling was awesome at siggraph 2004, ..  best .. keynote .. ever
04:07.25brlcadwait.. that's not who I'm thinking of :)
04:07.42Twingyit certainly wasn't lucas
04:07.54pra5ad-sjgot a video?
04:08.01brlcadthat's the worst in a long time
04:08.15pra5ad-sjwent to the new m$ flight sim terrain gen lecture
04:08.15Twingyhttp://www.boingboing.net/images/blobjects.htm
04:08.18Twingy^-- there
04:08.18pra5ad-sjvery interesting stuff
04:08.18brlcadhe just didn't give a damn to be there.. utterly boring to listen to
04:08.29pra5ad-sjprocedural textures in software
04:09.05brlcadthe guy i'm thinking of wasn't keynote
04:09.21brlcadmaybe the lifetime achievement award
04:09.31brlcadtalked about his work on sketch
04:09.57brlcad8kb ram to work in for code and graphics
04:10.01brlcador somesuch
04:11.33brlcadsan diego iirc
04:18.16Twingy<PROTECTED>
04:19.34brlcadjava? :)
04:20.00Twingyhmm :)
04:20.05brlcadapple!
04:20.34pra5ad-sjoh yea
04:20.44pra5ad-sji talked to david carmein today
04:20.47pra5ad-sjmet him up at lunch
04:21.02pra5ad-sjceo of VSD inc (aka omni directional treadmill)
04:21.17pra5ad-sjinteresting chap
04:21.21pra5ad-sjgot good ideas
04:21.29pra5ad-sjlacks funding
04:21.47brlcadthat device can't be cheap
04:21.49pra5ad-sjapparently the hamster ball treadmill idea was his (he is cited in their patent)
04:22.57brlcadyou should tell him that he should demo the platform with someone playing bzflag
04:23.08brlcador counterstrike or something
04:23.10pra5ad-sjheh hred wants a system w/o harness but the odt needs one for full immersion
04:23.29pra5ad-sjwell hred is using some game engine coupled with the odt
04:23.33pra5ad-sjso he says
04:23.42pra5ad-sjperhaps there is a game tied into the system
04:23.53pra5ad-sjcan find out when we go on the field trip
04:24.06brlcadmm.. bzflag compiled on the spot
04:27.49pra5ad-sjThe following items were included in this shipment:
04:27.50pra5ad-sj---------------------------------------------------------------------
04:27.50pra5ad-sjQty      Item                           Price  Shipped  Subtotal
04:27.50pra5ad-sj---------------------------------------------------------------------
04:27.50pra5ad-sj<PROTECTED>
04:27.55pra5ad-sjARRRRR!
04:28.13pra5ad-sji swear it didn't cost that much when i bought it
04:28.40brlcadthat's almost a new computer
04:28.55pra5ad-sji know =(
04:29.13pra5ad-sjnintendo's brain game is fuckin brilliant
04:29.17pra5ad-sji want to get a DS just for that
04:29.32pra5ad-sjtreadmill for ur brain
04:29.33pra5ad-sjand it works
04:29.45pra5ad-sjthey performed an experiement on stage at the keynote
04:30.00pra5ad-sjconvinced me ^_^
04:32.06pra5ad-sjso i did save a little.. normal price is $520
04:33.28brlcadbrain game?
04:33.40pra5ad-sjyea
04:33.41brlcadtrying to smarten up the dulled massives
04:33.46pra5ad-sjthe crazy japanese
04:33.57pra5ad-sjit's the fastest selling game in japan
04:34.00brlcadtired of selling to idiots
04:34.07pra5ad-sjand it only has math puzzles
04:34.39pra5ad-sjnintendo gave out free copies to everyone at the keynote
04:34.54brlcadnow, if they could just combine the hamster treadmill thing with the brain game thing.. two problems would be taken care of
04:34.59pra5ad-sji couldnt leave my seat cos will wright was up next and i didnt want to get back in that damn long line
04:35.10pra5ad-sjheh
04:35.41pra5ad-sjjust wear a suit with million electrodes that produce eletric shocks
05:31.54Twingyonly took 90 minutes too
05:41.50pra5ad-sjsketch?
05:42.23brlcadTwingy: for isst?
05:42.24Twingyyea, they let you talk for 15 minutes about something that's not beefy enough for a paper
05:42.30Twingycnc milling
05:42.34brlcadheh
05:42.53Twingythere's 118 submitted so far
05:42.57brlcadeep
05:43.01Twingytypically they only pick about 50
05:43.22Twingyso, I think I got atleast a 50% chance
05:43.33Twingydepends on who else does related stuff
05:43.55Twingyif they get one or two 3d printer guys
05:44.02pra5ad-sjheh
05:44.06Twingythen it could be quite likely
05:44.39Twingyeither way I can try the milling again next year
05:45.58pra5ad-sjtomorrow is ps3/cell day
05:46.13pra5ad-sjwaking up early to get a good seat
05:46.26pra5ad-sjway too many ppl today
05:46.35pra5ad-sjall lectures were overflowing
05:47.54Twingysounds alot like siggraph
05:48.05Twingyminus the hangover
12:18.00*** join/#brlcad rogier (n=rogier@16-65-dsl.ipact.nl)
19:08.21CIA-5BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/include/rle_config.h: define USE_TIME_H to quell implicit declaration warnings of time()
19:36.46CIA-5BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/other/ (65 files in 6 dirs): quell compiler warnings
19:49.49CIA-5BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/other/blt/src/ (21 files): quell compiler warnings, missing header
19:54.24CIA-5BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/libbu/bitv.c: argument is incompatible with corresponding format string conversion, go with %lx (might still need a cast on the value now for 32-bit systems), add missing stdlib.h header
19:59.39CIA-5BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/libbu/bu_tcl.c: argument is incompatible with corresponding format string conversion, quell warnings by using long format specifiers instead
20:02.06CIA-5BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/libbu/ (cmdhist.c ispar.c): quell compiler warning
21:50.09CIA-5BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/libbu/malloc.c: quell some intel compiler warnings
22:08.58CIA-5BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/libbu/ (cmdhist.c parse.c printb.c units.c vls.c): quell intel 9 compiler on altix warnings
22:18.07CIA-5BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/libbu/vls.c: final touches, missing header
22:19.21CIA-5BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/libbn/bn_tcl.c: ack, missing the %s for a slew of printfings, quell intel compiler warnings
22:33.40CIA-5BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/librt/g_nurb.c: odd arguments that don't have print specifiers.. possible bug that should get looked into for the tclget serialization.
23:22.07CIA-5BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/librt/ (20 files): lots of intel 9 for altix compiler warning quellings
23:31.33CIA-5BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/librt/nurb_example.c: quell more intel 9 compiler warnings, reorder interpolate_data() to avoid decl
23:45.49CIA-5BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/libpkg/pkg.c: quell intel 9 on altix compiler warnings
Jeff Waugh - find it at freshmeat.net! Modified by Tim Riker to work with blootbot logs, split per channel, etc. irclog2html for #brlcad on 20060325

irclog2html for #brlcad on 20060325

00:04.28CIA-5BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/libfb/ (fb_obj.c fbserv_obj.c if_ogl.c tcl.c): quell intel on altix compiler warnings
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00:29.47pra5ad-sjalrighty
00:29.56pra5ad-sjwent to an ibm talk on the cell
00:30.16pra5ad-sjapparently they have a strategic partnership with mercury
00:30.32pra5ad-sjinteresting stuff nonetheless
00:30.55pra5ad-sj16 cloth simulations running on 2 cells in smp
00:31.22pra5ad-sjcell blade will cost around $50k
00:31.59pra5ad-sjwill be dual cpu
00:39.57pra5ad-sjoh and saw a raycasting demo of mt. rainier(sp?)
00:40.06pra5ad-sjnot bad
00:40.23pra5ad-sjbest demo was ATI's parallax occlusion map demo
00:40.33pra5ad-sjfixes issues related to normal maps
00:40.38pra5ad-sjdamn well id say
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20:51.52archivistsuch a delightfull boy is Erik !
20:55.23``Erikand a sick one, to boot.
20:56.29archivistI would say have a stiff drink but I bet youve done that allready
20:59.49``Erikoddly enough, I think I've had a total of 3 drinks the last week, I doubt they'd aid in my getting over this flu
21:00.11``Eriklots of tea with honey and lemon juice... drank a freakin' pint of lemon juice this week o.O
21:02.14archivistjust one dose of minor snots this winter
21:35.10Twingywhy don't you just visit the doctor and get some antibiotics?
21:35.29Twingymakes alot more sense than coming to work sick every day
21:35.42Twingysome amoxacillian should fix you up
21:36.17Twingy*amoxicillin  
21:36.54Twingybeing sick for more than 48 days is silly
21:36.58Twingyerr 48 hours
21:37.17Twingyespecially when you can correct the situation for a mere $25
21:44.45archivistsend a vet
21:52.49Twingyback to flooring
23:37.33``Erik2 miles is vast?
Jeff Waugh - find it at freshmeat.net! Modified by Tim Riker to work with blootbot logs, split per channel, etc. irclog2html for #brlcad on 20060326

irclog2html for #brlcad on 20060326

00:17.43*** part/#brlcad terrylr (i=terrylr@johann.blauedonau.com)
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03:13.17Twingygood movie
03:53.31brlcadworth seeing?
03:53.53Twingyindeed
03:53.56brlcadrather.. worth paying $15 to see in theater
03:54.06brlcadmandatory popcorn and all
03:54.15brlcador just worth seeing eventually
03:56.03TwingyI brought two smores granolla bars and a soda
03:56.13Twingywith torrenting atleast
03:56.16Twingy*worth
03:56.20brlcad33heh
04:10.08Twingysean
04:10.12Twingywhere is vgrs
04:10.23TwingyXXX times faster?
04:10.38TwingyThese numbers seem to indicate that this machine is approximately 12734 times
04:10.38Twingyfaster than the reference machine being used for comparison, a VAX 11/780
04:10.38Twingyrunning 4.3 BSD named VGR.
04:10.47TwingyI just got that
04:23.12brlcadyes?
04:23.33Twingyyou got 11,600
04:23.34brlcadon the machine "VGR", the results for each of those tests == 1
04:23.45TwingyI got 12,700
04:23.56brlcadso 12700 VGRS is X times faster
04:24.01Twingyyes
04:24.05Twingybut icc is 15,000 still
04:24.09Twingylet me see if I can go higher
04:24.49brlcadright, without going deep into options for either, icc was considerably out performing
04:25.16brlcade.g. didn't use the -march flag, that would have helped some
04:25.28brlcador -ffast-math
04:25.40brlcadbut then icc also hasd similar options 
04:26.00brlcadwhat really steals it is that multi-pass
05:21.23Twingy12,836
05:28.23Twingylast test for tonight :)
05:28.32Twingymaybe I can sqeak out 13,000
05:32.33brlcadsounds about right
05:32.52TwingyI should push adrt through it again
05:32.55brlcadi'd expect it possible to squeak 1-3k out of both with more fine tuning
05:33.00Twingyeverytime I have used it in the past gcc was faster
05:33.06brlcadyou should try adrt with the multi-pass
05:33.11TwingyI even got the pathscale guys to formally admit gcc was faster
05:39.08brlcadwhen I first tested on the pre-altix, the gap was about 50%-60% with the same options iirc
05:39.42brlcadso nice to see that the gap is decreasing
05:41.11MaloeranAhah Justin, gcc defeated pathscale then? :) Neat
05:41.26Twingythere's a bug in their database as a result of my ray-tracer
05:41.36Twingyif I dig up old emails I have the title
05:41.38TwingyI think
05:41.47Twingyif something is faster, they report as bug
05:41.50MaloeranGCC is fairly horrible for Opteron optimisation, in comparison to what you can get from assembly
05:42.03MaloeranEh, nice
05:42.06Twingythe funny thing is I was testing on opterons
05:42.13Twingy2ghz quad opteron
05:42.21MaloeranSure, that's what Pathscale is designed for
05:42.29Twingyat siggraph 2004
05:44.34MaloeranI maintain that assembly is seriously under-estimated :), I seem to be the only one crazy enough to code paths optimized for archs or chips
05:49.00Twingydo you have a script you run to apply the mods post gcc compile?
05:50.02MaloeranNo, it's all hand written
05:50.09Twingyso everytime you compile
05:50.14Twingyyou have to open up file with editor
05:50.16Twingyand type it in?
05:50.20Twingyseems kind of laborious
05:50.22MaloeranThough, there are some easy changes to be made to GCC's output to increase performance on amd64
05:50.55MaloeranSomewhat, it doesn't take too long when you have the C version next to it as reference
05:51.17Twingyseems like a little sed scripts could be useful
05:51.24Twingyto just go patchit.sh
05:51.26MaloeranIt's a hand written .S file, I don't change anything
05:51.26Twingyeverytime you compile
05:51.35Maloerangcc foo.S -o foo.o
05:51.39Twingyso all assmembly lives in own file
05:51.47MaloeranA couple files, but yes
05:51.53TwingyI thought you were taking gcc's output
05:51.56Twingyeverytime you compile
05:52.02Twingyand putting it in from scratch
05:52.13MaloeranEh no, working from gcc's output wouldn't lead to the best results
05:52.22Twingygotcha
06:25.37*** join/#brlcad ibot_ (i=ibot@rikers.org)
06:25.37*** topic/#brlcad is http://brlcad.org/ || BRL-CAD is now Free Software! || BRL-CAD Windows port has been merged to HEAD, not yet stable yet || Archer is now on HEAD as well, kick the tires, report any bugs || there WILL be a 7.6.8 released ASAP for January after all
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06:59.37*** mode/#brlcad [+o learner] by ChanServ
09:57.13*** join/#brlcad ibot (i=ibot@rikers.org)
09:57.13*** topic/#brlcad is http://brlcad.org/ || BRL-CAD is now Free Software! || BRL-CAD Windows port has been merged to HEAD, not yet stable yet || Archer is now on HEAD as well, kick the tires, report any bugs || there WILL be a 7.6.8 released ASAP for January after all
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22:55.01Twingyyep, that's a dirty job
22:56.42Twingyliving room is oficially classified as DMZ now
Jeff Waugh - find it at freshmeat.net! Modified by Tim Riker to work with blootbot logs, split per channel, etc. irclog2html for #brlcad on 20060327

irclog2html for #brlcad on 20060327

01:10.50*** join/#brlcad guu (i=guu@myth.gibbscam.com)
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02:41.02Twingyhttp://js.cx/~justin/images/livingroom/
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07:02.51brlcadCIA is ill this evening
07:03.03brlcadnavi is down
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10:20.49archivistI expected to see the milling machine in the living room
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16:45.34pra5ad-werkbrlcad: at home?
16:45.42brlcadyes
16:45.47pra5ad-werkdammit
16:45.55pra5ad-werkwhere's jason
16:46.23brlcadin mexico all weekend
16:46.37brlcadhopefully still hung over
16:46.44pra5ad-werkoh
16:46.50pra5ad-werku in tomorrow?
16:48.33brlcadpossibly
16:48.52brlcadi'm always in somewhere
16:49.46pra5ad-werkew
16:49.52pra5ad-werktoo much info
16:49.54pra5ad-werk=)
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17:56.55``Erikheh
17:57.33``Erikyou shoulda came in today, sean, I was looking for someone to pawn racking a machine off on
18:00.31tegtmeyesean, you know gcc can do profiling opts like the intel compiler can right?
18:13.27learneryeah, would love to see the results
18:16.08learneri did mention that was without going into any great length on either compiler, add -O3 to each and what are the results, add no options, what are the results, etc
18:17.12learnerthe multi-pass gcc would be nice to see, though I would be still be incredibly surprised if it closes the gap fully
18:19.53brlcad``Erik: aww, darn.. and I missed that? shucks
19:06.37MaloeranJust -O3 is a very poor benchmark with GCC, especially on AMD chips...
19:33.32learnergive a list of ia-64 flags that should be optimal, and I'll give it a whirl
19:33.57learnerfast-math, mtune, expensive-opts, not much different
19:34.51learneri.e. this is an itanium2, an altix
19:39.27learneri've gone through more than a dozen compiles now, and in each case the intel compiler is out-performing with the exception of specifying no optimization options gcc takes it
19:40.38learnerwhich really just isn't so surprising.  intel compiler only supports a couple platforms, you'd hope that they'd do a decent job
19:43.42MaloeranAh yes, I didn't know the arch you were benchmarking, GCC's optimisation for IA-64 isn't anywhere near Intel's
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20:16.21``Erik<PROTECTED>
20:16.23``Erikgheh
20:18.01tegtmeyewe where talking today, you know that -fast-math turns off ieee math right?
20:32.13brlcadyep
20:32.48brlcadbrl-cad doesn't rely on ieee floating point
20:36.04brlcadthe benchmark test the actual results of the computations to ensure that they are within an accepted level of deviation (zero off-by-many pixel errors)
20:36.20brlcadif they don't match up, the benchmark will fail
21:03.49``Erikmake
21:03.50``Erikghah
21:08.26brlcadmake: *** No targets specified and no makefile found.  Stop.
21:10.37``Erikgmake -j99999999
21:11.28brlcadgmake: command not found
Jeff Waugh - find it at freshmeat.net! Modified by Tim Riker to work with blootbot logs, split per channel, etc. irclog2html for #brlcad on 20060328

irclog2html for #brlcad on 20060328

00:08.49``ErikNARF!
00:13.00tegtmeyeeh! which one of our machines has the most memory?
00:13.21tegtmeyerack has 8 and I jsut killed it...
00:18.38``Erikum, the altix has like 24g
00:19.20tegtmeyeI don't think I have an account on wopr
00:19.31tegtmeyecan you give me one from home?
00:19.35``Erikno
00:19.37brlcadnot really public conversation material
00:19.39``Erikit's not mine
00:19.46``Erikand we dont' say actual machine names in public
00:19.53tegtmeyegotcha
00:20.35``Erikthe second most I can think of off the top of my head is the amd64 minicluster with 8g/node
00:21.08tegtmeyeyea, jsut killed one with 8
00:21.12tegtmeyestupid perl
00:21.17brlcadheh
00:21.18``Erikdidja cook up much swap on it?
00:21.19brlcadbad regex
00:21.21``Erikheh, perl sucks :D
00:21.56brlcadif it wasn't a regex, I don't want to know how you ran through that much memory
00:22.12tegtmeyegraph stuff
00:22.17``Erikperl is as perl does? :)
00:22.26brlcadif it was, you should be able to cut that down with different expressions
00:22.46brlcadahm.. storing sparse matrices in hash tables? :)
00:22.48tegtmeyeno regex at all
00:23.08tegtmeyeno
00:23.14tegtmeyeadjacency lists
00:23.17tegtmeyesp
00:24.16brlcadperl isn't "horrible" on memory usage generally speaking.. not as bad as some other languages at least; sure you're not doing something that's causing some explosive allocation?
00:24.18tegtmeyeMar 27 19:06:10 ?? kernel: Node 0 Normal: 0*4kB 0*8kB 1*16kB 0*32kB 1*64kB 1*128kB 1*256kB 1*51
00:24.21tegtmeye2kB 1*1024kB 0*2048kB 0*4096kB = 2000kB
00:24.24tegtmeyeMar 27 19:06:10 ?? kernel: Node 0 HighMem: empty
00:24.26tegtmeyeMar 27 19:06:10 ?? kernel: Swap cache: add 516944, delete 516944, find 255/1278, race 0+0
00:24.30tegtmeyeMar 27 19:06:10 ?? kernel: Free swap:            0kB
00:24.32tegtmeyeMar 27 19:06:10 ?? kernel: 2097150 pages of RAM
00:24.35tegtmeyeMar 27 19:06:10 ?? kernel: 249625 reserved pages
00:24.37tegtmeyeMar 27 19:06:10 ?? kernel: 6527 pages shared
00:24.40tegtmeyeMar 27 19:06:10 ?? kernel: 0 pages swap cached
00:24.42tegtmeyeMar 27 19:06:10 ?? kernel: Out of Memory: Killed process 31308 (bash).
00:24.55tegtmeyeyea, doing static analysis on doxygen...
00:25.00tegtmeyeit has like 20k functions
00:25.21``Erikerm, y'know, we're only allowed to use those computers for official work related business o.O
00:25.26``Erik:)
00:25.50brlcadon doxygen??
00:26.21brlcadit's a document tool, i could care less how poorly written it is :)
00:26.28brlcadbut then that's just me
00:26.47``Erikdoesn't it use crap from like kde or qt?
00:27.00brlcadnot last I payed attention
00:27.08brlcadat least not required
00:48.52``Erikahhh O.o
00:50.00pra5adsonofa.. oblivion is xp only too
00:50.04pra5adthis is ridiculous
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03:24.35brlcadgrr
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03:25.34brlcadhrmph
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03:26.55brlcadsheesh
03:29.49*** mode/#brlcad [-b pra5ad*!*@*] by brlcad
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03:33.36pra5adok so im trying to use tinyxml for the c++ gl test
03:33.49pra5adits makefile only produces obj files
03:34.00pra5adhow do i incorporate that into my gnu build system?
03:34.05pra5ador whats the best way
03:36.00brlcadwho would only make .o files
03:36.36brlcadyou can half-ass it and just add them to the LIBS or LDFLAGS
03:36.45pra5ad*** i have a 15% gdc discount at www.akpeters.com (till 4/30/06)  ... let me know if u are planning to get some books from that site
03:36.47brlcador convert the build to a gbs one
03:37.33pra5adhm
03:38.59brlcadactually yeah, http://www.akpeters.com/product.asp?ProdCode=2175
03:43.01pra5adsince i'm not selling this gl test prog, i can technically rip out the src (3 cpp files) and put em under my build, right?
03:43.10brlcadmm.. http://www.akpeters.com/product.asp?ProdCode=1772
03:43.13pra5adiirc its under gpl
03:43.56pra5addude, email me the list of books
03:44.11pra5adim sorta curious about em too
03:49.23brlcadonly other one maybe, http://www.akpeters.com/product.asp?ProdCode=0903
03:52.29brlcadsent
04:04.48Twingyunf
04:04.54Twingysoooo many boards
04:21.45MaloeranEh, coerced ``Erik into giving a hand yet?
04:28.36Twingyhe's been sick for like 10 days?
04:28.44Twingyand refuses to get antibiotics
04:32.36MaloeranOuch, so he's still sick...
04:33.01Twingyhe should be using sick days :)
04:33.14Twingywith all the sick people I've been around at work
04:33.20Twingyyou'd think I'd be on my death bed
04:33.53pra5adgym is my antibiotic
04:34.21MaloeranSure, regular exercise and a good cardiovascular system greatly reinforces the immunity system
04:34.48MaloeranI haven't been sick for... many years either
04:35.59pra5adso when do i get to see ur raytracer?
04:36.23MaloeranHrm, what about at Siggraph? :)
04:36.35MaloeranI should have dynamic geometry support nicely completed by then
04:36.42pra5adoh yea? nice
04:37.04pra5adwhat are u using as the spatial structure? kinetic octree?
04:37.13MaloeranNot a known technique
04:37.18pra5adohh
04:37.20pra5adheh =)
04:37.21MaloeranThe ray-triangle intersection test is a new technique too
04:38.38Maloeranpra5ad, I vaguely understood you were interested by low-level hardware, have you played with FPGAs?
04:39.10pra5adsure have
04:39.14brlcadyou're presenting a paper at siggraph?
04:39.16pra5adxilinx mostly
04:39.33pra5addone a little abel and verliog
04:40.31brlcador going to demo it at the brl-cad bof? :)
04:40.46Twingyno no
04:40.52Twingythe Justin is your God bof
04:40.58Twingy:}
04:41.03brlcadwe need better compute power this year
04:41.10TwingyI got that covered
04:41.17brlcadheh
04:41.28Twingymal, I'll have a dual cpu dual core 2ghz opteron there for yah
04:41.30brlcadshould still.. press for new equipment by then
04:42.05brlcadhopefully it'll arive in time
04:42.13Twingythe craptops?
04:42.14brlcadi needs it, i vants it
04:42.35pra5adhelp me push for a dual cell blade
04:42.38pra5adonly $50k
04:42.39pra5ad=)
04:43.32Twingyheh, in that case let me just cash out my trust fund
04:58.29pra5adhttp://www.flickr.com/photos/ps3/117907118/
04:58.46pra5adwarhawk on ps3; clouds rendered using raycasting
04:58.50pra5adon a single spu
05:07.19MaloeranSorry about that, phone call from friend lawyer. So pra5ad, ever pondered about putting together ray-tracing hardware? :}
05:08.38pra5admy interest has peaked recently
05:09.00pra5adwould be a fun project :)
05:09.26MaloeranFor my part, I am really interested. I'm the kind of guy who write assembly for any common archs and stomp compilers, but I never went below that
05:10.09MaloeranAs it was for rasterization many years ago, specialized hardware will be the key for ray-tracing
05:10.21pra5adi agree
05:11.09pra5adwonder if xilinx is selling a pci-x fpga prototyping board
05:12.19MaloeranThis sure would be appropriate, such hardware would require pci-x's bandwidth
05:13.09MaloeranWhat emulation software do you use or would recommend?
05:13.10pra5adpersonally id like to try out two things: the pci-x path or build it against cell
05:13.35pra5adheh i cheated
05:13.40pra5adxilinx's own tools
05:13.55pra5adi dont believe they have any for nix/osx
05:14.10pra5adthen again this was 3 yrs ago
05:14.21MaloeranMmhm, I see
05:14.46pra5adthe one we used in 2k4 was pretty powerful imo
05:14.54pra5adfull system simulation
05:15.04pra5adand our schematic was pretty complex
05:15.15pra5adtwas a DLA
05:15.39pra5adiirc it allowed us to create components and tie em together; building blocks
05:15.45pra5adand simulate it that way
05:16.12pra5adand i do believe it cost around the order of $200
05:16.35pra5ad(project budget was somewhere around that)
05:16.39MaloeranInteresting. What software would you recommend for an initiation into the path that would lead to efficient ray-tracing hardware many years from now?
05:17.54MaloeranMost preferabily nix software... :)
05:17.59Maloeranpreferably, even
05:18.07pra5adi really shouldnt have any say in this, but id stick with the hardware vendor tools
05:18.12pra5adah.. that i dont know
05:18.23pra5adnever really did look into nix stuff
05:18.52pra5adi believe altera's basic dev kits run about $150-200
05:19.03pra5adincludes vhdl compilers
05:19.05pra5adiirc
05:20.16MaloeranI see, thanks for the tip
05:22.29pra5adah yea, we used the spartan 3E's
05:24.14pra5adohh interesting
05:24.22pra5adlogic building tools
05:24.23pra5adSystem Requirements
05:24.23pra5ad<PROTECTED>
05:24.23pra5ad<PROTECTED>
05:24.23pra5ad<PROTECTED>
05:24.29pra5admight wanna try that
05:25.05MaloeranNice, that seems more convenient
05:25.13pra5adhttp://www.xilinx.com/ise/logic_design_prod/foundation.htm
05:25.20pra5adevaluation cd
05:25.24pra5adheh full version is 2.5k
05:26.41MaloeranOuch. I really want to explore this avenue soon, after I'm done with the software side
05:28.27pra5adhttp://www.xilinx.com/xlnx/xebiz/designResources/ip_product_details.jsp?key=HW-V4-ML455&sGlobalNavPick=PRODUCTS&sSecondaryNavPick=BOARDS
05:28.32pra5adpci-x dev kit
05:28.38pra5adfor virtex-4s
05:28.46pra5ad1.2k
05:30.55pra5adheh now i want to get a dev kit
05:30.58MaloeranEh, I think I can be satisfied with software emulation for the moment, to gain some experience with this strange new world
05:31.44pra5adit's really not that hard
05:31.52pra5adid say it's easier than asm
05:31.54pra5admuch easier
05:33.29pra5adso i get to learn about this new raytracing algorithm in august eh?
05:34.17MaloeranI'm afraid it's unlikely that you will learn more than what level of performance it reaches... :)
05:36.55pra5adcollaboration? =)
05:38.52MaloeranThat might be an option, I'm really unsure of how things will unfold at the moment
05:39.15pra5adah, ok
06:01.33Twingydamn I'm getting close to producing working g-code
06:16.53Twingybed time
06:46.01*** join/#brlcad Twingy (n=justin@c-68-33-163-43.hsd1.md.comcast.net)
15:41.12CIA-5BRL-CAD: 03lbutler * 10brlcad/regress/master_prep.sh:
15:41.12CIA-5BRL-CAD: Added --enable-everything to the configure line
15:41.12CIA-5BRL-CAD: Printing old and new version numbers for confirmation
15:46.56docelichi folks.. any of sourceforge project owners here ?
15:47.20docelics/owners/brlcad admins/
15:47.39docelichaha good :)
15:48.07``Eriko.O
15:49.42docelicI am working on a large project too, and we are thinking of opening a sourceforge project.. but if I remember, brlcad was specially announced on sf.net frontpage, so maybe such a deal could be made with us as well
15:50.04docelicI'd like to find out the people I could talk to about such possibility
15:53.43CIA-5BRL-CAD: 03lbutler * 10brlcad/regress/Makefile.am: Now does all the regression tests even if one fails
15:56.17``ErikI don't think anything special was done for that... we had a cvs repo that we wanted imported
15:57.14``Erikso brlcad over there *point* talked to them and gave them a tarball of goop, as well as sending a blurb to slashdot... I d'no if he did anything special for sf news, or if they just did it themselves
19:01.51brlcaddocelic: yes
19:02.25docelichi brlcad
19:02.55brlcadsf.net picks up news for their main page at their discretion based on when you post news to your project :)
19:03.55docelicso you did not make any special arrangements to have it appear there? I might be wrong, but I remember them having the 1:1 picture of your logo on the main site for a week
19:04.17brlcadreally?
19:04.22brlcadi never knew that
19:05.10brlcadso yeah.. no special arrangements other than being a high-profile popular newsworthy project ;)
19:06.17docelicinteresting..
19:08.35brlcadlikewise
19:08.54brlcadi could just be forgetting, but I didn't know about the sf.net news
19:27.20brlcadtime to get out the hose
20:02.48CIA-5BRL-CAD: 03bob1961 * 10brlcad/src/tclscripts/archer/Archer.tcl: Set the default button for the preferences dialog.
20:12.21CIA-5BRL-CAD: 03lbutler * 10brlcad/regress/master_prep.sh:
20:12.21CIA-5BRL-CAD: Fixed bug where master_prep.sh was being run multiple times and
20:12.21CIA-5BRL-CAD: alternating between release numbers. Now gets consistent release
20:12.22CIA-5BRL-CAD: number from README file
Jeff Waugh - find it at freshmeat.net! Modified by Tim Riker to work with blootbot logs, split per channel, etc. irclog2html for #brlcad on 20060329

irclog2html for #brlcad on 20060329

03:23.53pra5adquiet..
03:24.24*** join/#brlcad pra5ad (n=pra5ad@pool-141-157-106-216.balt.east.verizon.net)
03:49.46Twingyhttp://js.cx/~justin/images/livingroom/floor_07.jpg
03:52.03pra5adu are not making a flipbook of the construction?
03:52.14TwingyI'm taking a video
03:52.25Twingyit's quite amusing
03:52.49pra5adcue benny hill music
03:53.24TwingyI wish siggraph were here already
03:54.08pra5adme too
03:54.21pra5adi need to chain conferences together
03:55.31pra5adby the time u are done, it'll be 2 yrs since buying and time to sell
03:56.07TwingyI'll have this place for 5 years
03:56.49TwingyI will list for sale on my 30th birthday
03:56.58Twingyby then truck will be paid off
03:57.47Twingythen I can have my dilbert home built ^_^
03:58.44Twingyland will be $50k - $100k, construction could be $350k - $500k
04:00.29pra5adwhere abouts?
04:00.46TwingyI would probably have it built in PA or cecil county area
04:01.34TwingyI have few memories from 1982
04:01.48Twingywe moved to NJ in fall '82
04:03.39TwingyI could easily spend 50 years in that dilbert house
04:03.50Twingyit's gorgeous
07:01.09*** join/#brlcad ChanServ (ChanServ@services.)
07:01.09*** mode/#brlcad [+o ChanServ] by irc.freenode.net
17:43.23``Erikdamnit, wrong part of the world to see the eclipse today :(
17:43.28``Erikhttp://eclipse.astronomie.info/sofi/activemaps.html is neat
17:53.50archivistslight dimming here but obscured by clouds anyway
18:01.20*** join/#brlcad grumbel (n=grumbel@i5387E3F1.versanet.de)
20:02.55CIA-5BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/include/bu.h: add support for the intel compiler on altix, i.e. for compiling with icc on ia64.. bu_byteoffset so needs to be dynamically detected by configure or even at run-time.
20:38.21CIA-5BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/sh/tracker.sh: provide an example use
22:27.25CIA-5BRL-CAD: 03lbutler * 10brlcad/src/rt/viewweight.c:
22:27.25CIA-5BRL-CAD: Since we have moved to calling bu_malloc instead of malloc, we have to be
22:27.25CIA-5BRL-CAD: careful not to acquire BU_SEM_SYSCALL prior to calling bu_malloc (since it
22:27.25CIA-5BRL-CAD: tries to acquire that semaphore, and the program would hang forever).
22:27.25CIA-5BRL-CAD: Of course, it would be better not to overload BU_SEM_SYSCALL in this
22:27.27CIA-5BRL-CAD: instance, but to allocate an application semaphore. That is a more sweeping
22:27.29CIA-5BRL-CAD: change for later.
23:57.42*** join/#brlcad cad412 (n=1813305d@bz.bzflag.bz)
Jeff Waugh - find it at freshmeat.net! Modified by Tim Riker to work with blootbot logs, split per channel, etc. irclog2html for #brlcad on 20060330

irclog2html for #brlcad on 20060330

00:01.37CIA-5BRL-CAD: 03lbutler * 10brlcad/src/rt/main.c:
00:01.37CIA-5BRL-CAD: When complaining about not getting an MGED database, we now accurately report
00:01.37CIA-5BRL-CAD: the name of the program (from argv[0]) being run, rather than pretending that
00:01.37CIA-5BRL-CAD: all rtuif programs are called "rt".
00:04.14*** join/#brlcad cad665 (n=1813305d@bz.bzflag.bz)
00:04.35CIA-5BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/libfb/ (fb_obj.c fbserv_obj.c if_4d.c tcl.c):
00:04.35CIA-5BRL-CAD: revert the libbu memory management changes to libpkg just to be safe. if
00:04.35CIA-5BRL-CAD: someone happens to call bu_semaphore_acquire on a BU_SEM_SYSCALL semaphore, the
00:04.35CIA-5BRL-CAD: call will block since libbu utilizes that semaphore internally (and it's
00:04.36CIA-5BRL-CAD: expected that callers know this..).
00:07.58cad665Hello, I am new to BRL-CAD.  Just got current from CVS and noticed the visual studio projects
00:08.37cad665I have made a few tweeks to get it most of the executables, but not all working.  What is the status of this?
00:09.53cad665I was looking to use mged, but it is looking for 'gui'
00:23.41*** join/#brlcad cad665 (n=1813305d@bz.bzflag.bz)
00:28.18brlcadcad665: there are some manual installation steps
00:28.31brlcadi'm not sure if they've been well documented yet
00:28.47brlcadbut basically you have to install the tclscripts and the binaries that you build before mged will work
00:29.28brlcadmged uses a vast quantity of external plugin-style resources that it tries to find, and without doing this,  you get the gui error or a few others
00:38.53cad665thanks
00:39.17cad665I noticed that I needed to move iwidgets.tcl.  I will look around the makefiles
00:39.39brlcadmost of the src/tclscripts directory as well
00:39.54brlcadthat's the big one, that's where 'gui' lives for example
00:40.13brlcadthe status is that it's about ready to ship out now
00:40.27brlcadbut the automatic-build under windows certainly needs more work
00:40.46brlcadthere has just not been too many windows developers interested in getting involved to date yet
00:44.27cad665I have done some porting from *NIX to Win32, but it can be quite an undertaking to port an application this size
00:44.52brlcadthe porting is pretty much done
00:44.58brlcadit's mostly polish that's remaining
00:45.08brlcadso that you click, click and have an install, etc
00:45.14cad665I may be able to help
00:45.33brlcadthe nix side is pretty turnkey at this point
00:46.01cad665I have been working on the FEA application CalculiX, doing that port and built an installer and packaged the HTML help into CHM, etc...
00:46.05brlcadthough of few of the packaging systems are still coming on-line, like debian
00:49.25brlcadat this point, there are three approaches to getting a windows build -- there are two studio projects (one vc6, another vc7) or building through mingw/cygwin
00:49.46brlcadthe vc6 builds all of the libraries and does an even better automated job than the vc7 project
00:50.08brlcadthe vc7 project, though, builds about a 1/4th of the most useful binaries as well
00:52.46*** join/#brlcad cad665 (n=1813305d@bz.bzflag.bz)
00:53.32Twingyanyone interesting in laying hardwood? :)
00:53.36Twingy*ed
00:54.02brlcadyou probably wouldn't appreciate my technique
00:54.07Twingyheh
00:54.13brlcadinvolves a nail gun and some glue
00:54.22Twingyoh
00:54.24MaloeranAhah
00:54.26TwingyI've been using scotch tape, hrm
00:54.45brlcaddoesn't involve wood
00:54.56Twingyah, so you found a loop hole
00:55.18Twingyanti time space wood nailer doodad
00:55.38MaloeranSure I'm interested to help, you pay the transportation, right? :)
00:55.56TwingyI'll pay you in an mp3 player built by the elbonians
00:56.04brlcadheh
00:56.16brlcadhe'll give you his ipod.. :)
00:56.18Twingy...it's a good deal
00:56.45brlcadthat poor poor defenseless ipod..
00:57.56Twingyit's not engineered to my standards
00:58.34TwingyI should be able to drive my car over it without so much as a scratch
00:58.51Twingymilitary grade man, military grade
01:01.05Maloeran642km from Montreal to Baltimore, 8-12 days of bicycle, selling an ipod for food on the way won't be enough
01:01.53TwingyI doubt somone would give you food for it :)
01:02.36Maloeran:) Will you be completing the basement next, or you already passed that way?
01:02.56TwingyI will probably take a break after the hardwood floor
01:03.02Twingyrest for a month
01:03.13MaloeranRight, sounds reasonable
01:03.16brlcadthat would be a sweet bicycle ride
01:03.32Twingy6 weeks on the ceramic floor, 4 weeks on finishing the office, and 2 weeks on the hardwood floor drains you
01:04.29Twingyanother 4.5 years and I can sell this place and get my dilbert house constructed
01:06.32MaloeranThat's ambitious, brlcad :), I rarely find people willing to join to travel a fraction of that on bicycle... or were you being sarcastic?
01:08.43brlcadno, being serious
01:09.11MaloeranVery nice, I wouldn't mind joining
01:09.20brlcadit would take about two-three weeks I imagine
01:09.39brlcadi believe lance does it every year in two with a group
01:10.29MaloeranIt depends if you actually want to stop by some places for a day or two
01:10.43brlcadtrue
01:10.53brlcadand if there are any breakdowns or injuries
01:11.43brlcadwould be easy to rip a muscle without good distance training
01:12.26brlcadat least with a decent pace, i like to keep at least a 20mph pace if not better on flat
01:12.47MaloeranI do 35km daily to go to work at the moment, I wouldn't mind personally
01:12.56MaloeranRight.
01:13.02brlcad~convert 20 miles to kilometers
01:13.16brlcadsounds about right, do that within an hour
01:13.53brlcadis that 70 a day, or 35 total?
01:14.02MaloeranIt's a bit slower due to traffic, but yes.  35km total
01:14.06brlcad70 is a pretty long commute
01:14.07brlcadahh, k
01:16.06brlcadi used to have a 50 km route to work and back a couple years ago when I was starting
01:16.09TwingyI think erik makes that many trips to the fridge in a week
01:16.13brlcadthat was hard to do more than 2 days back to back
01:16.40brlcadcourse mostly because I had a horrible seat at the time.. geared for racing not distance
01:16.42MaloeranSo 100km total daily?
01:16.55brlcadno 50 total
01:16.59brlcad25 each way
01:17.26Twingymal, how far are you from boston?
01:18.07Maloeran890km
01:18.16brlcadsince then i've rode 160km across 2 days easily enough
01:18.17brlcadheh
01:18.21Maloeran50km daily is fine, but you may arrive rather tired at work
01:18.22brlcadthat would be one hard trip
01:18.27Twingyyou're closer to baltimore than boston?
01:18.47MaloeranOr so some air traverl website says, yes
01:18.53MaloeranAck, wrong city
01:18.53Twingyerm
01:19.00Maloeran356km to Boston
01:19.05MaloeranI thought it didn't make sense too
01:19.06Twingycan you bike that?
01:19.12brlcadyeah, it was fine.. actually wasn't too tired, just my joints couldn't take more than two days before I had to let them recover
01:19.21MaloeranWell sure, give me ~5 days
01:19.34brlcadheh, that's about 200 miles
01:19.35Twingyif you can do it, we could hook you up with room :)
01:19.37brlcadyou could do that in two days
01:19.46brlcaddepending on the terrain.. :)
01:20.20MaloeranDepending if I don't get completely lost, and so on :), 5 days is playing it safe
01:20.28Twingy3 days :D
01:20.40Twingydon't you have a gps? :)
01:21.07brlcadTwingy: what's his name is interested too, he's looking into it I think
01:21.09MaloeranI could get that... :)
01:21.15Twingydavid?
01:21.20brlcadyeah
01:21.27Twingywell, more the merry :)
01:21.36brlcadnot necesarily to bunk, but at least in going
01:21.46Twingyah
01:21.51brlcaddunno what his plans are
01:21.57brlcadtoo far out for him
01:22.06brlcadmm.. could bike to boston..
01:22.15brlcadthen i wouldn't get any coding done
01:22.27brlcadheh
01:22.39brlcadcan just imagine having a suitcase strapped to my back
01:22.48Twingyand what if the airplane crashes? HUH?! :)
01:22.56Twingynah
01:23.00Twingybuy your cloths at siggraph
01:23.16Twingyshow up to the siggraph mechandise booth all sweaty
01:23.18MaloeranArriving at Siggraph after a 3 days ride on bicycle with a tent and portable computers strapped on the back sure would be elegant
01:23.19Twingybuy a change of cloths
01:23.33Twingywe can provide computing power :)
01:23.39Twingyyou could send encrypted files :)
01:23.41brlcadand then ride home with 50 lbs of proceedings on your back :)
01:23.51Twingyproceedings can be mailed
01:23.59brlcadwhere's the fun in that
01:24.15Twingyriding to siggraph on a bike isnt fun enough?
01:24.24Twingyyou're almost as nuts as I am
01:24.26MaloeranI'm seriously considering it :)
01:24.32MaloeranI'll see when the time comes
01:24.44Twingytalk about die hard siggraph fan :)
01:25.06Twingy"Hey Gordon, just rode my bike here from boston"
01:25.35TwingyI'd prefer hiking over biking though
01:25.39TwingyI can hike 20 miles a day
01:25.52Twingywould take a good 2 weeks advance start
01:25.54MaloeranAnd you can ride 5 times that easily
01:26.06brlcad375mi from aberdeen to boston
01:26.06TwingyI'm not a big fan of bike riding
01:26.21TwingyI prefer to not use mechanical devices
01:26.31MaloeranHiking is slow, I tend to run whenever outside as walking is just too slow
01:26.43TwingyI cannot run more than 8 miles at a span
01:26.53MaloeranGood enough
01:26.56Twingyspeaking of which
01:27.00Twingysoon as hardwood floor is done
01:27.06TwingyI'll start my 50 days of running again
01:27.18Twingyby the end of that I'll be able to run 8 miles again
01:27.37brlcadthe appalachian trail would get you there
01:27.39Twingyhiking from edgewood to aberdeen would take me like 6 hours
01:27.59brlcadyou might want to get started in june
01:28.03Twingyhehe
01:28.14Twingyif I had the leave available
01:28.18TwingyI would do it in a heart beat
01:28.18MaloeranDid you try riding a bicycle lately, Twingy? Really, it's much more pleasant
01:28.30TwingyI rode my bike all the time before I moved to maryland
01:28.40MaloeranAh nice.
01:28.40Twingylittle 15 mile rides
01:28.49TwingyI prefer running though
02:34.19tegtmeyearggg...papers suck. going home:(
02:36.33``Erikheh
02:36.36``Erikit's due friday?
02:44.40CIA-5BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/m4/cache.m4: if the compiler or preprocessor flags we're using for the current configure are different from when we last cached values, invalidate the configure cache.
03:13.32``Erikthat's not smog, that's smug!
04:03.23Twingyhttp://js.cx/~justin/images/livingroom/floor_08.jpg
05:25.39Twingydamn, tsp is rockin
05:44.29*** join/#brlcad PrezKennedy (n=Apathy@c-68-33-243-45.hsd1.md.comcast.net)
05:59.21pra5adgo go i-fund
05:59.46Twingythe lack of g-code references on google is profund
05:59.51Twingy*profound
06:02.33Twingyniehgbors house is going for $342,900
06:03.35Twingymy house type just sold for $325k
06:03.46Twingythat's $30k more than I paid
06:11.15CIA-5BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/other/URToolkit/tools/ (rlecomp.c rleinterp.c): quell icc warnings
06:15.41brlcadi had/have a copy of the g-code specification around here somewhere
06:22.43Twingywith parameters?
06:22.53Twingyfinding without parameters is easy
06:23.07Twingywith parameter grammar is not so easy
06:42.08brlcadbeats me
06:42.21brlcadit just was some official specification
06:44.21brlcadit's an ISO standard (like STEP..)
06:48.56brlcadmm.. snippet example on wikipedia
06:48.57brlcadhttp://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/CNC
06:51.56brlcadISO 4342
07:03.38brlcadis the overview, apparently ISO 6983 is the actual gcode codes
07:03.51brlcadeven better example: http://www.dsic.upv.es/~jsilva/cnc/index.htm
07:29.43CIA-5BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/include/raytrace.h: peculiar ifdef WIN32 commenting on three ifree functions for dsp, ebm, and vol primitives, enable them but recommend nobody rely on them till it gets sorted out
13:54.55*** join/#brlcad cad328 (n=c0738410@bz.bzflag.bz)
13:55.14cad328hi
13:56.06cad328I got some initial install issues.. can anyone help?
13:57.51cad328I untarred the binary for linux in /usr/brlcad..  performed export BRLCAD_ROOT="/usr/brlcad/" and executed mged
13:58.49cad328but now when I try to open anything I get:  No database has been opened!!!
14:10.32brlcadcad328: what's your exact command line for invoking mged?
14:14.46brlcadfor starters, you should not need to set BRLCAD_ROOT
14:15.08brlcadthat is only needed if you relocate the binaries to a location that they weren't compiled for
14:16.00brlcadthe No database has been opened message should only be given if you start mged without a .g and try to perform modeling commands
14:22.23cad328Thanks.. tried that out.. and now it starts okay... another little issue
14:22.39cad328I try to import a .IGES file with iges-g
14:22.57cad328iges-g  -t -N gallery -o gallery-iges.g ../galeria.IGS
14:23.02cad328and I get a segfault
14:23.28cad328Number of entities checked:        1670Summary of entity types found:         8 Circular Arc (type 100)       230 Composite Curve (type 102)       516 Line (type 110)         2 Surface of Revolution (type 120)        24 Transformation Matrix (3X4) (type 124)       520 Rational B-Spline Curve (type 126)       112 Rational B-Spline Surface (type 128)       115 Curve on a Parametric Surface (type 142)       114 Trimmed Parametric Surface (type 144)        12 S
14:24.03cad328I do apologise if I seem rather newbie... it's because I am..
14:30.03``Erikis galeria.IGS something that can be shared?
15:16.18brlcadapparently not
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15:49.25alrbnGaleria.iges is something that can be shared
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15:52.50alrbnHi.. hope this client works better
15:56.48``Erikokie, unless brlcad sees an issue with your call line, it might be useful for you to go to http://sourceforge.net/projects/brlcad and submit a bug report, including info on how you got the source, the kind of machine, the command you ran, attach the file, ... and mebbe crank up gdb and try to get a backtrace :)
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Jeff Waugh - find it at freshmeat.net! Modified by Tim Riker to work with blootbot logs, split per channel, etc. irclog2html for #brlcad on 20060331

irclog2html for #brlcad on 20060331

00:56.20Twingyand remember, no dangling projects in front of me
02:32.00Twingyonly you can prevent a forest fire
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22:46.44Twingyhmph, I had over 5700 people try out nurbana back in the day
23:02.54``Eriko.O
23:03.08``Erikdone flooring?
23:06.56TwingyI've been working all day
23:07.20``Erikon the railroad?
23:07.27Twingyon muves
23:07.35``Eriks2?
23:07.38Twingyyep
23:07.44``Erikwendy made us put the screens back int he windows
23:07.52``Erikcuz dixie was whining about the wasps collecting in her office
23:07.55``Erik:(
23:07.58``Erikso much for that plan
23:07.59Twingyhah
23:08.23Twingythere is a huge tree just outside my fence that has started to uproot
23:08.38Twingyand has a 5 foot 1 inch gap in the center
23:08.40``Erikas in; falling over? o.O
23:08.56TwingyI need to call hoa and have them remove
23:09.18Twingymaybe I can talk them into replacing it with something
23:09.28``Erikheh, unlikely
23:09.43Twingyotherwise I'll buy a little 1 foot pine and plant it myself
23:10.23``Eriktrees around here seem pretty small, if it falls away from your fence, it'll probably be no problem... back in washington, when a tree fell over, it could pull roots 6' away up, so even falling away it'd tear apart a fence or something
23:10.30Twingythere's enough wood in that tree to do my floor
23:10.45``Erikheh, ya think? you lose half the wood from cutting it down...
23:11.12TwingyI dunno about half
23:11.24Twingymaybe 1/5
23:12.17Twingyhttp://js.cx/~justin/images/2006_winter_backyard.jpg
23:12.28Twingythat big one 1/3 from the right
23:12.31Twingytilting right
23:14.51archivisttime for chainsaw massacre
23:15.19``Erik;)
Jeff Waugh - find it at freshmeat.net! Modified by Tim Riker to work with blootbot logs, split per channel, etc. irclog2html for #brlcad on 20060401

irclog2html for #brlcad on 20060401

03:16.21*** join/#brlcad grumbel (n=grumbel@i5387C73C.versanet.de)
03:49.35Twingyhttp://slashdot.org/
04:25.06pra5adomg
04:47.10brlcad:)
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Jeff Waugh - find it at freshmeat.net! Modified by Tim Riker to work with blootbot logs, split per channel, etc. irclog2html for #brlcad on 20060402

irclog2html for #brlcad on 20060402

03:16.31*** join/#brlcad grumbel (n=grumbel@i5387C242.versanet.de)
04:03.08pra5adfark
04:05.20Twingybeatings will continue until moral improves
04:07.18pra5adfucking comcast again
04:07.28pra5adcomes to my building, doesnt ring the damn bell and leaves
04:07.47Twingyyou don't have time for comcast
04:07.51Twingyyou should be here laying hardwood
04:08.02pra5adu never asked
04:08.07Twingyhaha
04:08.11Twingylike you would offer a hand :P
04:08.18pra5adi would
04:08.56TwingyI see a 2 acre plot in cecil county for $170k I want
04:09.24pra5adask me tuesday
04:09.29pra5admy schedule is clear then
04:09.31pra5ad;)
04:09.38Twingyheh
04:09.46TwingyI'm almost done
04:09.50TwingyI was busy today
04:10.16pra5adme too
04:10.29Twingytruckload to the dump, washed truck, went running, grocery shopping, hardwood, home depot, lowes, hardwood
04:10.48pra5adwhere's the dump
04:10.53pra5adi need to offload some junk
04:10.55Twingyscarboro road
04:11.02Twingydo you live in harford county?
04:11.07pra5adyes
04:11.20Twingygo where I tested my rocket motor
04:11.33Twingybut keep going another 0.5m and take a right and go 2m
04:11.35pra5adthe one i attended?
04:11.37Twingyyes
04:11.40pra5adi c
04:11.48pra5addo they take computer parts?
04:11.53Twingythey take anything
04:11.59Twingy$5
04:12.01pra5admobos have toxic chems
04:12.11pra5adi believe there's some procedure to dispose of em
04:12.14TwingyI know, I did a presentation on that soph year in college
04:12.19pra5adwonder if said dump takes em
04:12.26TwingyI'm sure they don't care
04:12.31pra5adheh
04:12.31Twingyit's up to you to care
04:12.38pra5adeh?
04:12.45Twingythey move about 100 cars/trucks through there an hour
04:12.47pra5adcare to find someone to take mobos?
04:12.52Twingycorrect
04:12.56Twingythey don't inspect your garbage
04:13.03Twingyjust give it a glance
04:13.12pra5adso dead bodies are ok?
04:13.17Twingythey might ask you to take the metal to the metal area
04:13.19pra5adi mean biological matter...
04:13.28Twingyyou could probably get away with throwing a body there
04:13.34Twingyas long as it was in a bag
04:13.39Twingyin several pieces
04:13.46Twingynobody would ever know
04:14.06pra5admm snatch (the movie)
04:14.14Twingysnatchatory rape?
04:14.19pra5adpig farm for the win
04:14.25pra5adu havent seen snatch?
04:14.30pra5adguy ritchie film
04:14.33TwingyI've seen lots of snatch
04:14.43pra5adimaginary ones don't count
04:14.45Twingyjust not recently
04:14.56pra5adand im talking about a film =)
04:15.01TwingyI've been seeing ceramic tiles and hardwood instead
04:15.09pra5adthose movies suck
04:15.11Twingynope, haven't seen the film
04:15.23TwingyI'm about to install another ceiling fan I think
04:15.35Twingybought one to replace the hanging light above kitchen table
04:15.45pra5adstart another 'movie day'
04:15.49pra5adill bring the movie
04:15.52Twingythat will make a good ending to today
04:15.54pra5adworth watching
04:15.57Twingyhrm
04:16.03Twingywe have wendy 9000 though
04:16.08Twingyit might not be 'appropriate'
04:16.18pra5adgah
04:16.24TwingyI think I pissed chuck off
04:16.27Twingyin a good way
04:16.33pra5adgood way?
04:16.35Twingywe were mid work on some helmet stuff
04:16.54Twingyand asked me on progress, told him I can't work on it any longer cause I've been reprioritized
04:17.16Twingywendy sent out a nice email to the bc's telling them to stop giving me new work
04:17.38TwingyI'm liking all the attention :)
04:17.53pra5adabout dangling?
04:17.55pra5adi was there
04:18.09Twingyrussell is getting impatient
04:18.25pra5adheh im gonna make a little promo movie
04:18.28pra5adfor 'muves'
04:18.49Twingyone's already been made
04:18.50pra5ad3D UI, etc, etc
04:18.53Twingyit's called 'Titanic'
04:18.58pra5adlol
04:19.00pra5adg1
04:19.15pra5adi just wanna show them what is possible
04:19.21pra5admaybe then they'll get a clue
04:19.42TwingyI want to make a little promo that shows how I stopped caring 2 years ago :)
04:20.04Twingy6 months of talking about muves at lunch was fun
04:20.08Twingyafter that... >_<
04:20.20pra5adheh
04:20.37TwingyI'd rather talk about ponies :)
04:20.50pra5adomg ponies
04:20.53Twingyexcuse me, OMG PonIEs!
04:21.07pra5adKEKEKEKEKEKE
04:21.13TwingyROFL OMG HAHA
04:21.33pra5ad=>^^<='
04:22.05pra5adbad news
04:22.21pra5adjogl has comparable performance to native gl
04:22.21Twingyyou lost an eye from a crab fork?
04:22.33Twingyok?
04:22.50pra5admeans they'll prolly keep java
04:23.01Twingylike I said, don't care :)
04:23.04pra5adeven for the ui
04:23.32pra5ads/bad news/bad news for me/
04:23.36Twingyrubbish
04:23.43Twingyyea, sucks 2 b u
04:24.02pra5adim gonna push hard for cell
04:24.07TwingyMUVES 4EVA!!!
04:24.16pra5adand sell it to SAB as their savior
04:24.22TwingyI'm gonna... install a ceiling fan
04:24.24pra5adand jump ship
04:24.27Twingybbl
04:30.34brlcadthat's some good eat'n
05:19.14pra5adi went to bertucci's =(
05:39.28Twingydone
05:41.53Twingyhttp://js.cx/~justin/images/kitchen_ceiling_fan_before.jpg
05:41.58Twingyhttp://js.cx/~justin/images/kitchen_ceiling_fan_after.jpg
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Jeff Waugh - find it at freshmeat.net! Modified by Tim Riker to work with blootbot logs, split per channel, etc. irclog2html for #brlcad on 20060403

irclog2html for #brlcad on 20060403

21:07.32*** join/#brlcad DTRemenak (n=DTRemena@c-67-187-164-66.hsd1.ca.comcast.net)
Jeff Waugh - find it at freshmeat.net! Modified by Tim Riker to work with blootbot logs, split per channel, etc. irclog2html for #brlcad on 20060404

irclog2html for #brlcad on 20060404

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21:55.56CIA-5BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/TODO: have libbu report memory allocation statistics
Jeff Waugh - find it at freshmeat.net! Modified by Tim Riker to work with blootbot logs, split per channel, etc. irclog2html for #brlcad on 20060405

irclog2html for #brlcad on 20060405

00:15.21*** join/#brlcad cad337 (n=dced80ae@bz.bzflag.bz)
03:09.24pra5adwoooo!
03:09.26pra5adgo terps
03:09.45Twingynow I know how the egyptian slaves felt while building the pyramids
03:10.15Twingythough, the hardwood floor is looking like 1/2 the work as the ceramic kitchen floor
03:10.29Twingyand alot less messy
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16:55.02CIA-5BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/include/raytrace.h: in fact, we can't rely on the _ifree() functions as they conflict with declarations in other files.. need to investigate more, but just disable for now
17:02.52CIA-5BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/TODO: benchmarks are working again, so we're good to go. slated for later: fix the laundry list of security issues reported by Pedro, demote some of the next iteration items as well (autogen overrides, configure optimization)
17:10.34CIA-5BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/bench/pixcmp.c: missing string.h
17:18.17CIA-5BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/doc/README.IRIX: update the documentation with comments about gcc crashing on -O3. also provide the actual recommended production release build configure lines for 32-bit and 64-bit if only for convenience to future releases.
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18:10.24CIA-5BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/conv/iges/trimsurf.c: fourth parameter seems to be missing... make a note of it
18:20.25CIA-5BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/ (18 files in 3 dirs): more header/warning cleanup from Intel compiler warnings on Altix
19:16.11CIA-5BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/ (6 files in 2 dirs): more header/warning cleanup from Intel compiler warnings on Altix
19:16.36CIA-5BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/ (rttherm/ssampview.c fbed/execshell.c): more header/warning cleanup from Intel compiler warnings on Altix
19:18.02CIA-5BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/tclscripts/archer/tclIndex: meh, silly supposedly static file got reordered
19:18.29CIA-5BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/ (irprep/all_sf.c irprep/shapefact.c libdm/options.c): more header/warning cleanup from Intel compiler warnings on Altix
19:19.49CIA-5BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/ (lgt/execshell.c lgt/hmenu.c lgt/reflect.c nirt/showshot.c): more header/warning cleanup from Intel compiler warnings on Altix
19:22.27CIA-5BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/other/URToolkit/ (3 files in 2 dirs): more header/warning cleanup from Intel compiler warnings on Altix
19:54.59CIA-5BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/ (6 files in 2 dirs): more header/warning cleanup from Intel compiler warnings on Altix
20:04.29CIA-5BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/util/ttcp.c: remove the have_unistd_h check so that ttcp may remain completely stand-alone
20:14.44CIA-5BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/BUGS: xpush sometimes doesn't work
20:22.40tegtmeyeexit
20:27.08archivistlooking at the database format tonight re temperature, material and expansion and the resulting center of gravity, havnt found much yet any pointers?
20:29.28CIA-5BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/BUGS: boo hiss, Creat 'part'
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20:55.47CIA-5BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/TODO: option to mged make command or new command that enters solid edit mode.. same for cp command. (suggestions from dwayne)
20:57.18CIA-5BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/TODO: analyze command doesn't print values with enough precision
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21:14.13CIA-5BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/TODO: optimize CSG structures automatically, automatic simplification
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21:53.53*** topic/#brlcad is http://brlcad.org/ || BRL-CAD is now Free Software! || BRL-CAD Windows port has been merged to HEAD, not yet stable yet || Archer is now on HEAD as well, kick the tires, report any bugs || there WILL be a 7.6.8 released ASAP for January after all
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Jeff Waugh - find it at freshmeat.net! Modified by Tim Riker to work with blootbot logs, split per channel, etc. irclog2html for #brlcad on 20060406

irclog2html for #brlcad on 20060406

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15:12.10*** topic/#brlcad is http://brlcad.org/ || BRL-CAD is now Free Software! || BRL-CAD Windows port has been merged to HEAD, not yet stable yet || Archer is now on HEAD as well, kick the tires, report any bugs || there WILL be a 7.6.8 released ASAP for January after all
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18:43.10CIA-5BRL-CAD: 03bob1961 * 10brlcad/src/librt/wdb_obj.c: Modify wdb_get_obj_bounds() and wdb_get_obj_bounds2() to properly free their rt_i instances. Modify wdb_binary_cmd to call fopen with the 'b' flag if on Windows.
18:45.55CIA-5BRL-CAD: 03bob1961 * 10brlcad/src/tclscripts/lib/Db.tcl: Modify the shareDb method to set the sharedDb flag.
18:47.25CIA-5BRL-CAD: 03bob1961 * 10brlcad/src/tclscripts/archer/Archer.tcl: Minor mods to set the default button on a few dialogs.
19:21.40CIA-5BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/bwish/cmd.c: quell warnings from intel compiler, use long type
19:30.55CIA-5BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/conv/ (11 files in 3 dirs): quell/fix issues raised by the Intel compiler on Altix
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19:56.36CIA-5BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/fb/ (bw-fb.c fbcmap.c fbcolor.c pix-fb.c pixflip-fb.c pp-fb.c): quell/fix issues raised by the Intel compiler on Altix
20:07.24CIA-5BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/liboptical/ (6 files): quell/fix issues raised by the Intel compiler on Altix
20:38.39CIA-5BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/util/ (7 files): quell/fix issues raised by the Intel compiler on Altix
20:50.36CIA-5BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/mged/ (21 files): quell/fix issues raised by the Intel compiler on Altix
21:00.42CIA-5BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/include/raytrace.h: windows needs these or apps won't link.. need to figure out why still
21:46.37CIA-5BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/m4/cache.m4: ack, missing trailing ` on the exec command
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Jeff Waugh - find it at freshmeat.net! Modified by Tim Riker to work with blootbot logs, split per channel, etc. irclog2html for #brlcad on 20060407

irclog2html for #brlcad on 20060407

01:59.28*** join/#brlcad richard12345 (n=chatzill@209.53.180.250)
02:01.09richard12345Hi, I was curious to know where I can download the WinXP version of BRL CAD, as it seems missing on the SF pages and yet is listed as supporting it.
02:03.00learnerrichard12345, there is a beta available to select groups, just not on sf.net
02:03.20learnerrichard12345, there will be a binary download available on sf.net in about a week if you can wait (much better than the beta)
02:04.08richard12345Yes I can wait for a week. Are you sure?
02:04.48richard12345Do you know if it does automatic dimensioning?
02:05.06learneri do know
02:05.11learnerit does not :)
02:05.36richard12345It does not do autodimensioning?
02:05.46learnerrichard12345, the 7.8.0 release is being prepared as I type this -- unix binaries likely will post tomorrow, first windows shortly thereafter
02:05.48richard12345How do people model with it then? :)
02:06.12learnerit's quite powerful in other aspects ;)
02:06.22richard12345Great!
02:06.26richard12345has anyone ever attempted architecture with it?
02:06.34richard12345So I hear.
02:06.34learnersomewhat different modeling philosophy in general from what you're probably used to as well
02:06.42learneryes, they have
02:06.57richard12345That's good to know.
02:07.49richard12345I've done boolean if that's what you're talking about in terms of modeling philosophy.
02:08.05learnerhm, that reminds me .. there is was an architecture company in florida that was interested in making the mods necessary to make brl-cad their primary sole modeler.. should see what they're up to
02:08.22learnernot just boolean, but that is certainly part of it
02:08.48richard12345What would the architecture company be?
02:08.55learnerreading through the mged tutorial might give you a basic idea of some of the fundamentals
02:09.07richard12345on the main site?
02:09.09richard12345ok
02:09.11learneri can't recall their name.. just remembered their interest
02:09.12learneryeah
02:09.35learnerit was a small firm, iirc
02:10.33richard12345Fair enough. Anyway, thanks for the news and direction. I'll check it out and see. Catch you later!
02:10.34learnerquick overview of the primitives here i put together a while ago: http://ftp.brlcad.org/tmp/primitives/Primitives3_grouped_labels.png
02:10.53learnerno probl. cheers
02:10.59richard12345I'll read it over dinner. :)  Thanks again.
02:19.29CIA-5BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/configure.ac: define USE_FBSERV so libdm/mged allow direct fbserv render connections
08:24.31CIA-5BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/other/URToolkit/tools/mallocNd.c: dont use the k&r-style malloc extern now that the file correctly includes/presumes stdlib.h for it
13:26.31CIA-5BRL-CAD: 03jlowenz 07trimnurbs-branch * 10brlcad/include/nurb.h:
13:26.31CIA-5BRL-CAD: ws; changed oslo matrix vector to be statically allocated and added support for
13:26.31CIA-5BRL-CAD: oslo matrix pools (structure and accessors for struct oslo_mat). dynamic
13:26.31CIA-5BRL-CAD: allocation of olso_mats were a serious bottleneck in profiling results.
13:30.25CIA-5BRL-CAD: 03jlowenz 07trimnurbs-branch * 10brlcad/src/librt/g_nurb.c: ws; fixed trim curve looping constructs in export/import routines; fixed nurb sizing routine
13:33.07CIA-5BRL-CAD: 03jlowenz 07trimnurbs-branch * 10brlcad/src/librt/nurb_copy.c: ws; added support to copy trim contours when copying surfaces
17:49.44CIA-5BRL-CAD: 03jlowenz 07trimnurbs-branch * 10brlcad/src/librt/ (nurb_refine.c nurb_split.c nurb_xsplit.c): modified call to rt_nurb_free_oslo to support new implementation
18:31.47CIA-5BRL-CAD: 03jlowenz 07trimnurbs-branch * 10brlcad/src/librt/nurb_trim.c: added rt_nurb_uv_trimmed() to support calculating whether an intersection is inside/outside a trim contour.
18:36.30CIA-5BRL-CAD: 03jlowenz 07trimnurbs-branch * 10brlcad/src/librt/nurb_util.c: fix broken BU_LIST manipulations; added functions to support new pool-based oslo_mat allocation, uses accessors: rt_nurb_new_oslo()/rt_nurb_free_oslo()
18:37.51CIA-5BRL-CAD: 03jlowenz 07trimnurbs-branch * 10brlcad/src/librt/oslo_calc.c: utilize new allocation/free routines for oslo_mat
18:39.25CIA-5BRL-CAD: 03jlowenz 07trimnurbs-branch * 10brlcad/src/libwdb/nurb.c: comment detail
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19:08.50CIA-5BRL-CAD: 03jlowenz 07trimnurbs-branch * 10brlcad/ (BUGS NEWS TODO configure.ac): update from HEAD
19:25.21CIA-5BRL-CAD: 03jlowenz 07trimnurbs-branch * 10brlcad/ (5 files in 3 dirs): update from HEAD
19:26.56CIA-5BRL-CAD: 03jlowenz 07trimnurbs-branch * 10brlcad/ (30 files in 11 dirs): update from HEAD
19:30.57CIA-5BRL-CAD: 03jlowenz 07trimnurbs-branch * 10brlcad/src/ (69 files in 9 dirs): update from HEAD
19:34.43CIA-5BRL-CAD: 03jlowenz 07trimnurbs-branch * 10brlcad/src/ (130 files in 19 dirs): update from HEAD
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20:10.07*** topic/#brlcad is http://brlcad.org/ || BRL-CAD is now Free Software! || BRL-CAD Windows port has been merged to HEAD, not yet stable yet || Archer is now on HEAD as well, kick the tires, report any bugs || there WILL be a 7.6.8 released ASAP for January after all
23:28.21Twingyhttp://img100.imageshack.us/img100/4018/eastercard0yu.jpg
Jeff Waugh - find it at freshmeat.net! Modified by Tim Riker to work with blootbot logs, split per channel, etc. irclog2html for #brlcad on 20060408

irclog2html for #brlcad on 20060408

00:22.20brlcadheh
01:02.54``Erik:D
01:06.03brlcadanger management?
01:06.25archivistI think a good woman should take erik in hand and give him a good spanking
01:06.57archivisthmm perhaps not he may like it too much
01:12.43brlcadundoubtedly
01:29.38``ErikO.o
01:30.04``Erikyou heard him, sean, find me a good woman :D
02:03.11brlcadthat sounds like a challenge
02:03.13brlcader, I mean
02:03.18brlcadthat sounds challenging
02:03.24brlcad*ahem*
03:06.55Twingywanna write an interpreter in C erik?
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08:33.19Twingyhttp://gcam.js.cx/images/GCAM_PS_200604080432.jpg
12:00.59``Erikinterpreter of what?
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22:44.53brlcadthere are lex/yacc grammars for a C interpreter already written that you could just use
22:52.50TwingyI don't want a C interpreter
22:52.56TwingyI want an interpreter written in C
22:56.05archivistti interpret what? g codes
22:56.47Twingyyes, but I think I'm going to write it rather than explain what I need
22:58.52archivistfun
22:59.10Twingyhttp://gcam.js.cx/images/GCAM_PS_200604080432.jpg
22:59.13TwingyI did that last night
22:59.25Twingyusing my cylinder primitive
22:59.58TwingyIt is totally unoptimized and took 57 minutes to run
23:00.03brlcadthat looks horrible :)
23:00.18Twingyit was a piece of scrap from the floor
23:00.24Twingyhow so?
23:01.04archivist57 mins how many laps , was the cutter worn out through wear (too long a contact time)
23:01.29Twingymy software pushed it through 3 layers per cylinder
23:01.49Twingyand I think 5 or 6 revolutions per layer
23:02.01Twingyone on the right is 20% smaller
23:02.22brlcadit just looks like a piece of scrap is all :)
23:02.36Twingythe precision would be higher if I had aluminum
23:02.43Twingybut this is very good for wood
23:02.56Twingywood splinters now matter what precision you have
23:03.01Twingys/now/no
23:03.24Twingythe two cylinders in the middle are all I milled
23:03.33Twingythe rest is the actual scrap
23:03.45archivistgot to get the cutter speed up to minimise splinters in wood
23:03.58Twingydoesn't matter how high it is, still going to splinter
23:04.31Twingythese circles are slightly larger than the size of my thumbnail
23:04.35archivistdoes kinetics mean a cut instead of splinter
23:06.20Twingythere really isn't any splintering on the circles
23:07.02archivistI noticed its reasonably smooth
23:07.43TwingyI basically just blew out the sawdust and wiped it down with a piece of sand paper for a few seconds
23:07.57Twingydidn't really need any work
23:08.15Twingyanywho, back to coding
23:09.40archivistthe thng that buggers the finish on the cnc miller here is that it stops for a ms or three while its moves to the next primative
23:10.02archivistand so leaves marks
23:10.30TwingyI don't notice it in wood
23:11.24Twingysoon I will have to build my forge
23:12.00archivisthehe I might put up a pic of the forge I built outside here for 1 job
23:14.43TwingyI'm adding tool change code now
23:16.27archivistwww.archivist.info/forge
23:17.17archivistdidnt have coal used barbeque briquets
23:17.20Twingydude, that's ghetto :)
23:17.57TwingyI'm going to build a mobile cart that hold a propane tank and burner for melting aluminum
23:18.06archivistnot much wind from a 386 power supply
23:20.00TwingyI just need to get my mig welder so I can make it
23:20.15Twingydebating whether to buy the fish tank before or it or not
23:20.57archivistget the welder then make the fishtank
23:21.23TwingyI was thinking about doing that
23:21.32Twingyand use my mill to make some braces
23:22.04Twingywill hold the glass in place and then I can just add caulk
23:22.49Twingyit'll be totally over engineered
23:26.02TwingyI will need to work on my glass cutting skills first
23:27.10archivistlube the cutter with a light oil, scribe once only with firm pressure
23:27.37archivistwatch a pro for a few minutes
23:27.40TwingyI'm talking about cutting out circles
23:28.03archivistthey make it look easy
23:28.31TwingyI'm tempted to maybe use plexiglas instead
23:28.59Twingy1/4" plexiglas is good stuff
23:29.39Twingymount it in a box groove
23:30.01Twingyand far lighter
23:33.06Twingyyea, I'll do that
23:33.18Twingyand build aluminum support braces, will look sweet
23:46.26archivistwe did a plexyglass cover for a church clock, to stop the sandstone grit from getting in the gears
23:47.36Twingyhow is your mill coming
23:52.17archivistwww.archivist.info/forge/machinery.html
23:53.34archivistit needs the software re doing, we may refit the electronics to do that
23:54.03archivistI usually use it by pressing the buttons !!!
23:54.26archivistas the software is so bad
23:55.19archivistIve got 3 other millers here to use
23:58.36Twingyheh
Jeff Waugh - find it at freshmeat.net! Modified by Tim Riker to work with blootbot logs, split per channel, etc. irclog2html for #brlcad on 20060409

irclog2html for #brlcad on 20060409

00:00.32archivistwww.archivist.info/forge/garvin.html the oldest miller
00:00.40archivistused this last week
00:02.50archivistignore lack of modern health and safety
00:07.11archivisthmm after a quick google the garvin vertical seems to be a bit rare, we guess first world war vintage
00:17.14Twingywho is we
00:18.13archivisttwo of us here the boss and me
00:18.29Twingylooks like that place needs a little spring cleaning
00:18.52archivistno space!!
00:19.08archivisttoo much work to do
00:19.12Twingyhow many sq ft?
00:20.13archivist20x40ft with the basement 2/3rd dug out
00:20.30archivistan old 1913 tin curch
00:20.36archivistan old 1913 tin church
00:20.47Twingyyea, that is tiny
00:21.40archivistspecially if you see how much is stuffed in
00:21.54Twingyyea
00:22.01TwingyI only got room for 2 more tools
00:22.10Twingywill probly be the mig welder and a lathe
00:24.08archivistwe also have a portacabin in the yard (cnc is in there and some of my electronics )
00:24.43archivistsouthebend lathe is nice
00:24.51TwingyI'm gonna get a grizzly
01:39.41pra5adhd-pbs
01:39.43pra5admm mmmmm
01:39.56Twingycnc mill mmmm
01:40.09Twingygetting close to the point where you can design your robotic hand
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03:41.55*** mode/#brlcad [+oo ChanServ brlcad] by irc.freenode.net
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19:18.37KakiharaI'm helping my parents design a new house. Could brlcad help in this?
19:34.43Twingyit can be used, yes
19:35.02Twingyhowever, there are programs out there more suited like autodesk
20:12.13archivistpunch software http://www.punchsoftware.com/index.htm has a 50$ home designer
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20:36.02KakiharaTwingy and arhivist: thanks
20:36.10Kakiharaarchivist I mean
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23:04.26Twingyhttp://gcam.js.cx/images/GCAM_PS_200604091905.jpg
23:06.27brlcadneat
23:07.30archiviststill fraid of metal then
23:07.38Twingydon't have any
23:07.45Twingyjust a garbage can full of 30lbs of aluminum
23:08.07Twingyone the living room and garage are done being remodeled, I can build my aluminum forge
23:08.17Twingyand make a bunch of aluminum bricks
23:10.08TwingyI'll be adding a sketch feature that lets you import a bitmap
23:10.21Twingybut that's a ways off
23:10.36archivistdxf to gcode as well
23:10.37Twingyit'll be used for milling out traces on a circuit board
23:10.38brlcadthis would be sweet http://db.brlcad.org/tmp/avatar.gif
23:10.43Twingydxf is yucky
23:10.54archivisti know
23:11.06TwingyI don't plan to support triangle formats
23:11.22Twingytriangles are yucky for this
23:11.23archivistive written scripts to fix dxf's
23:12.28Twingyokie
23:13.09archivisthad to join the lines up for a laser cutter
23:13.51Twingymy buddy john is building one right now with a 25 watt CO2 laser
23:15.10archivista freind got a laser from the scrap yard but not been brave enough to switch it on
23:15.58Twingywithout a lens they aren't very useful
23:17.31Twingyok, time to work on my file format
Jeff Waugh - find it at freshmeat.net! Modified by Tim Riker to work with blootbot logs, split per channel, etc. irclog2html for #brlcad on 20060410

irclog2html for #brlcad on 20060410

00:04.54pra5adim glued to my tv now
00:04.56pra5addamn you HD
00:04.59pra5addamn you!
00:24.06Twingynot good :)
00:24.31TwingyI watch like 3 hours a week
00:24.38TwingyI wonder why I pay for it
00:24.55TwingyI guess cause I can
00:26.49Twingypra5ad, you should start designing your robot parts
00:27.08Twingyyou can make them out of wood before comitting to metal
03:34.10pra5adheh robots arent exactly on my mind right now
03:35.03Twingyhttp://gcam.js.cx/
03:38.57Twingyyou see stocks dropped on friday?
03:39.32TwingyTop Financial News
03:39.32TwingySome Worry 1st-Quarter Stock Rally Is Over
03:39.45Twingyjust posted on yahoo financial
03:54.47Twingyesta fuego!
04:54.18Twingy0xBED
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18:26.44IngManHi people
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Jeff Waugh - find it at freshmeat.net! Modified by Tim Riker to work with blootbot logs, split per channel, etc. irclog2html for #brlcad on 20060411

irclog2html for #brlcad on 20060411

00:08.56*** join/#brlcad pyranha (n=pyranha@master.solcore.net)
00:09.17pyranhahello
00:09.41pyranhahas anyone in here installed brlcad on a gentoo based system?
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01:09.07brlcadpyranha yes, there have been several that have installed brl-cad on a gentoo system
01:09.14brlcadahh, not here
01:12.30Twingy39 more days of running >_<
02:36.06*** join/#brlcad ibot (i=ibot@rikers.org)
02:36.06*** topic/#brlcad is http://brlcad.org/ || BRL-CAD is now Free Software! || BRL-CAD Windows port has been merged to HEAD, not yet stable yet || Archer is now on HEAD as well, kick the tires, report any bugs || there WILL be a 7.6.8 released ASAP for January after all
03:01.02pra5adwell well
03:01.08pra5adjust got tsp confirmations
03:01.15Twingyheh
03:01.35Twingystocks just went up 8000%
03:01.41Twingyguess you shoulda stayed put
03:01.51pra5adshazbot!
03:01.54Twingy:)
03:07.39pra5adwoot
03:07.49pra5adsomehow this transfer netted me $200
03:08.07Twingysure it wasn't the rise in stock?
03:08.25pra5adwhat exactly went up? G?
03:08.38Twingycause mine went $150 during the transfer
03:08.47Twingybut I think its cause they were still climbing
03:08.59Twingymaybe it's a loophole :)
03:09.23Twingyday trading tsp funds!
03:09.57pra5adhah
03:10.06pra5adlike this oblivion gold hack
03:10.24pra5adkeep transfering gold from inventory and drops
03:10.37pra5adeventually build up a fortune
03:11.10Twingyheh
03:11.38Twingydoes that make you a gold digger?
03:12.30CIA-9BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/NEWS: release note details for 7.6.8 and 7.8.0
03:13.29pra5adif i was a hot woman and the tsp fund was a rich guy
03:13.30pra5adthen yes..
03:14.07TwingyI knew it
03:14.15CIA-9BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/ (configure.ac include/config_win.h): update version to 7.8.0, preparing for release
03:15.00pra5adur script needs a date range function
03:15.08Twingymeh
03:18.28CIA-9BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/ChangeLog: update Changelog with entries since 2006.12.22, preparing for release 7.8.0
03:26.32CIA-9BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/ (README configure.ac NEWS include/config_win.h): bump to developer rev 7.8.1, cvs is tagged with rel-7-8-0
03:32.37CIA-9BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/configure.ac: redo 7.8.0 version number
03:33.36CIA-9BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/configure.ac: bump correctly to 7.8.1 after retag
03:40.20pra5ad[2]prasad@duriel:/var/www :. date -v2003y -v06m -v+2m +%Y%m
03:40.20pra5addate: invalid option -- v
03:40.22pra5adhmph
03:40.48Twingy[justin@lithium:~]$ date -v2003y -v06m -v+2m +%Y%m
03:40.48Twingy200308
03:41.12pra5ad:. date --version
03:41.12pra5addate (coreutils) 5.2.1
03:41.12pra5adWritten by David MacKenzie.
03:41.17Twingylinux sucks :)
03:41.29pra5adbah
03:41.37Twingy<PROTECTED>
03:41.37Twingy<PROTECTED>
03:44.13pra5adfsa for me then
03:44.41Twingyhrm?
03:44.52pra5adif (m > 12) m = 0
03:44.56pra5ad:p
03:48.12Twingyheh
03:48.20Twingymy file format is sooo overengineered
03:48.27Twingythis thing will never need changing
04:04.35Twingyheh
04:04.41Twingyan hour of changing code and it just compiles
04:07.07Twingyheh
04:07.23Twingy73 million dollars to crash 2 tons into the moon
04:07.36Twingyand we complain about $80k of air conditioning
04:08.28pra5adgah ur gplot script breaks on my box
04:08.41Twingyold version?
04:11.05pra5adextra linebreaks
04:11.11pra5adwhats tsp_image.cgi
04:11.24Twingyit opens an image and writes binary data
04:11.32Twingyto the user
04:11.40pra5adpost it
04:12.35Twingyhttp://tsp.js.cx/tsp_image.pl
04:17.15pra5adyay!
04:52.19Twingyworking?
04:57.24pra5adyup
04:57.32pra5adill hack it tomorrow
04:58.30Twingyfirst you have to pay me royalties
04:58.45Twingyunder the justin cost-you-lots licensing (tm)
04:59.36pra5adhttp://141.157.106.216:8080/tsp/tsp.pl
04:59.40pra5addoes that work for u?
04:59.53TwingyI renamed those to pl, they were cgi
04:59.58Twingyso that server would not parse
05:00.08pra5adwell does it work?
05:00.25Twingyseems to
05:00.29pra5adk
05:01.00Twingypra5ad, make us rich
05:01.15Twingywe shall thwart the tsp system
05:01.41pra5adnow i need to tie this into wsj somehow
05:01.43Twingythen get caught up in some money laundering scandal
05:01.49Twingywtf is wsj
05:01.56pra5adwall street journal
05:02.17Twingyheh
05:02.25TwingyI have much simpler method
05:02.39Twingytake a 50 - 100 day span
05:02.42Twingymost recent
05:02.49pra5adcompare to gas prices?
05:02.52Twingycompare against last 250
05:03.01Twingyif curve is above an outlier
05:03.07Twingymove down
05:03.08Twingyif it's down
05:03.11Twingymove up
05:03.17pra5adcrude
05:03.20Twingymove down == goto g, move up == goto S and I
05:03.21Twingyworks
05:03.25pra5adbreaks for small noise
05:03.35Twingythe small noise is 5 - 25
05:03.45Twingy100 provides a very healthy sample
05:03.52Twingyremember all these are composites
05:03.59Twingyso they are already filtered
05:13.17Twingyooh, sweet
05:13.25Twingyloading is almost done
14:46.58*** topic/#brlcad by brlcad -> http://brlcad.org/ || BRL-CAD is now Free Software! || Release 7.8.0 is Posted!
14:51.45archivistyou been sent packing then
14:55.46``Eriko.O
14:59.09``Erik*grouse* changin' --enable names ain't polite
15:02.39``Erikalso; completely breaking them, uncool
15:06.33brlcad:)
15:07.26brlcad``Erik: the intent for the packaging systems is to use --enable-everything or --disable-everything followed by --enable-whatever for specific packages, adding the rest to the dependency list
15:07.42brlcadI don't believe you can disable tcl/tk/itcl/iwidgets yet still
15:07.56brlcadat least not tk
15:08.06brlcadand itcl/itk, last I checked
15:08.17``Erikthat ain't what I'm grousing about
15:08.30brlcadjove crap?
15:08.37brlcad--disable-jove
15:08.52``Erikyeah, you have an over-wide conditional
15:08.52brlcad(all those -build suffixes are optional)
15:08.59brlcadoh?
15:14.15``Erik*testtesttest*
15:18.26CIA-9BRL-CAD: 03erikgreenwald * 10brlcad/configure.ac: fix an over-zealous conditional so --disable-jove works (some of us use vi)
15:20.59archivistdidnt know editors other than vi existed
16:24.30``Erikwell
16:24.45``Erikthere's this lispos emulator called emacs that some people think is an editor...
16:24.58``Erikbut if you look at it, it's a full os emulator... that's missing a decent editor
16:24.59``Erikgo figure
16:29.55``Erikahhh, here we go... http://www.freebsd.org/cgi/cvsweb.cgi/src/games/fortune/datfiles/Attic/fortunes2.diff?r1=1.53&r2=1.54
16:29.56``ErikO:-)
17:10.01brlcadheh, i figured you'd add vi, I just wasn't going to add it :)
17:10.40``Eriknah, --disable-jove should actually disable jove, not enable some funkyassed fucktard auto mode...
17:11.05``Erik(looking for any editor at all is damage, beeyotch)
17:11.48brlcadmged requires an editor, it's for providing a means at a sensible default better than 'ed'
17:13.22``Eriktho some of the slime stuff is kinda neat
23:43.42Twingymeh, 38 days left
23:44.22Twingywhy not pick nano as a the default editor :)
23:44.38Twingyit compiles lickity split and is tiny, and an order of magnitude more powerful than ed
23:45.25Twingyreverse search, search and replace, insert file, spell check, justify, cut/paste, etc.
23:46.38Twingyso basically a hair less than vi, but it shows you what the key combos are while you are editing
Jeff Waugh - find it at freshmeat.net! Modified by Tim Riker to work with blootbot logs, split per channel, etc. irclog2html for #brlcad on 20060412

irclog2html for #brlcad on 20060412

00:21.04``Erikerm, ed has reverse search, search&replace, insert file, can do spell check, ...
00:21.15Twingycodin' time
00:21.25``Erikclassic vi is basically ed for 'tards
00:32.45brlcadfoodtards
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02:30.50Twingy3,320 lines
02:43.48``Erikheh, hit it with sloccount? :)
02:44.12Twingyyou can do it
02:44.15TwingyI'm busy coding :)
02:45.54Twingynow that file saving/loading with the new format are done
02:46.08TwingyI can work getting cylinder optimized and lines done
02:46.15Twingythen work on the sim
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14:52.58CIA-9BRL-CAD: 03jlowenz 07trimnurbs-branch * 10brlcad/src/librt/nurb_refine.c: ws; comment change
14:55.29CIA-9BRL-CAD: 03jlowenz 07trimnurbs-branch * 10brlcad/src/librt/nurb_util.c: Removed shared pool, went to thread-specific pools. Better solution, but only temporary since bu_parallel doesn't support thread-locals.
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16:51.05*** topic/#brlcad is http://brlcad.org/ || BRL-CAD is now Free Software! || Release 7.8.0 is Posted!
19:19.28CIA-9BRL-CAD: 03bob1961 * 10brlcad/src/mged/mged.bat: Update for handling an argument (i.e. file.g)
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Jeff Waugh - find it at freshmeat.net! Modified by Tim Riker to work with blootbot logs, split per channel, etc. irclog2html for #brlcad on 20060413

irclog2html for #brlcad on 20060413

02:56.05CIA-9BRL-CAD: 03johnranderson * 10brlcad/src/conv/dxf-g.c: Added support for a couple more entity types
02:56.19pra5adwhoa
02:56.20pra5ad!!
02:58.39``Erikheh, what, you thought he'd just disappear?
03:04.10pra5adyes
03:04.13pra5adyes i did
04:15.57pra5aderm in 7.8.1 mged shows 7.7.0 in the title/help dialog
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04:24.38pra5adack that wasn't good
04:24.46pra5adraytracing cray.g killed my kernel
04:33.41TwingyI suspect I will move funds within the next 6 business days
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13:08.41CIA-9BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/BUGS: raytracers report the wrong amount of cumulative time on amd64, benchmark reports wrong numbers unless using -P1
13:14.48brlcadpra5ad: you didn't build cleanly
13:15.27brlcad7.8.1 is cvs head, which involved a configure.ac update
13:36.51``Erikhah, killed the kernel? what a shitty os :D
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22:57.46reisioawe, people quit :p
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23:42.26*** mode/#brlcad [+o brlcad] by ChanServ
23:52.23reisioI don't suppose any of you use BRL-CAD on Gentoo Linux?
Jeff Waugh - find it at freshmeat.net! Modified by Tim Riker to work with blootbot logs, split per channel, etc. irclog2html for #brlcad on 20060414

irclog2html for #brlcad on 20060414

00:06.25``Erikfbsd and osX here, sorry
00:09.51reisioI guess I'll just try building it on my own
00:09.53reisiowoo adventure :p
00:12.22``Erikshould work fairly easily...
00:12.32``Erikjust configure, make, make install
00:13.26reisiobut what if I make a typo?! oh noes :p
00:13.27reisioheheh
00:13.41reisio``Erik: what sort of stuff do you use BRL-CAD for?
00:14.05``Erikum, I test it to make sure I didn't break it, mostly
00:14.06``Erikheh
00:14.22``ErikI don't actually USE it, per se...
00:14.32``Eriktho I am using some of the libraries in other projects, like librt
00:14.43``Erik(librt being the library, not the project)
00:15.35reisioawe
00:15.47reisiowhat's the project?
00:16.24``Erikjust some non-visual scientific analysis type shizzlenitz
00:18.48reisiopish, no GUI? :p heheh, k
00:21.15``Eriknope, no gui at the moment, input file, run program, output file, done
00:21.26Twingyday 14 done
00:21.28``Erikgui's are for 'tards O:)
00:21.32reisioTwingy: nice
00:21.36reisio``Erik: :)
00:21.44``Erik14? already? damn
00:21.56``Eriktime flies when you, uh, don't care
00:22.00``Erik:} *duck*
00:22.00Twingyyep
00:22.25``Erikworking from home tomorrow?
00:22.32Twingyyes
00:22.45``Erikheh, I assume the schematics he was whiteboarding are NOT related to the monitor stands? :)
00:22.53Twingynegative
00:23.12reisioday 14 of what?
00:23.38``Erikhe's training for the annual 'run the fuck from the police, dawg!' event
00:24.01``Erikback in the 16's?
00:24.12Twingywhen I try
00:24.17``Erik(and are ya gonna do the 5km this year?)
00:24.22Twingywhen I don't try 19's
00:24.30TwingyI may
00:25.46``Erikrunning the neighborhood? or the track at the school?
00:26.06Twingyneighborhood
00:26.32``Eriks/s//
00:26.43reisioheh
00:26.53``Erikwow, ibot is r-tarded
00:27.57reisiohrmmm
00:28.11reisiodid they mean to leave index.html up on brl-cad.org ?
00:29.19``Erikprobably
00:29.49``Erikwhy?
00:30.16reisiowell index.php has the cute PDF filesizes
00:31.24``Erikeh? o.O
00:31.51reisiocompare http://brl-cad.org/index.html and http://brl-cad.org/index.php
00:32.28``Erikah... both seem to be updated recently, tho
01:02.10*** part/#brlcad reisio (n=reisio@gentoo/user/reisio)
01:33.28brlcadit's always been like that
01:33.47brlcadi just changed them to caps, and made index at least show pdf
01:34.34brlcadbut php has always shown size
01:35.25``Erikheh, he left, duder
01:40.29brlcadjust sayin'
01:52.28pra5adTwingy
01:52.38pra5ad|   | too high
01:52.40pra5adhaha
02:03.55pra5adhmm maybe not
02:04.02pra5adif i dont slouch
02:41.13Twingyo.O
02:42.02Twingyraise your chair an inch?
02:42.33``Eriknot "slouching"
02:42.46Twingyyou like cockpits eh?
02:43.26TwingyI don't think I will ever do that again though
02:43.30``Erikyes, but usually we call them "vaginas"
02:43.34Twingysoft steel from now on
02:43.42``Erikheh, and harden it after?
02:43.50Twingyno hardening, no need
03:37.24Twingywere they deep enough?
03:47.10Twingynext rocket nozzle will be 6.25"L x 1.25"D in 3 sections
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14:00.19TwingyUNIONTOWN, Pennsylvania (AP) -- A man threw a microwave at his girlfriend, then fatally beat her after she refused to heat up sandwiches, police said.
14:20.31``ErikO.O
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17:56.44prasad_werkwhere is the *.adrt loading code within the src tree?
18:05.29brlcadwhose src tree?
18:06.19brlcadsrc/adrt/* and src/conv/g-adrt.c in brl-cad's
18:12.02prasad_werkyea
18:12.31prasad_werkim gonna write g-bin
18:12.45prasad_werkg-adrt creates 5 files
18:13.01prasad_werkannoying to read
18:13.08prasad_werkthe DIVA format is better
19:23.50Twingygah this crap is pissing me off
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19:24.01prasad_werksean
19:24.05prasad_werkhttp://astronomy.swin.edu.au/~pbourke/dataformats/stl/
19:24.06Twingyo.O
19:24.32brlcadyep
19:24.33prasad_werkstl wont work for me
19:24.36brlcadpaul's site is great
19:24.42prasad_werkits a single mesh per file
19:24.57prasad_werki want to collate all of them into one
19:25.22brlcadso write out N files and cat them together
19:25.38prasad_werkthat's a valid stl file?
19:25.56brlcadbeats me, have to read the stl spec
19:26.12brlcadi wouldn't just trust paul on whether you can only have one mesh too
19:26.46brlcadeasy enough to read the spec, it really is pretty straightforward
19:27.32``ErikBEER ME
19:27.33brlcadprasad_werk: alternative would the the ply format
19:27.42brlcadit also has an ascii and binary format
19:28.00brlcadand paul writes about it as well iirc :)
19:28.14brlcadeven has some parsing library code, though we have ply export support iirc
19:28.33prasad_werkg-ply?
19:28.46brlcadwhat else?
19:28.58brlcadhttp://astronomy.swin.edu.au/~pbourke/dataformats/ply/
19:30.18prasad_werkthere's no g-ply in brlcad..
19:31.05Twingypra5ad, so did you decide to use the stands or not?
19:31.06prasad_werkheh
19:31.09prasad_werkA PLY file contains the description of exactly one object.
19:31.13prasad_werkTwingy: im using em
19:31.44Twingygonna finish them this weekend?
19:31.56prasad_werkprolly next
19:40.29TwingyI need me an 8 core opteron at home
19:40.57Twingytoo bad we don't have the budget per user that we had in the 80's
19:43.48``Erikyeah, darn the cold war for ending too soon o.O *duck*
19:45.22``Eriktwiggly, got that system usage graphing thing sorta kinda lit up for some machines now... o.O
19:45.32Twingyfun
19:46.43Twingyokay, I need some autofoo help
19:46.53``Erikyuh oh, and the amd64?
19:46.55Twingygot a directory that builds a library and binary
19:47.15``Erikokie?
19:47.17Twingythat library 'X' contributes to a large library 'L'
19:47.41Twingythe program in the directory where 'X' lives requires linking against 'L'
19:47.50``Erikuh
19:47.51Twingy*this was not my design*
19:47.57``Erikgiven how make works, that's a circular dependancy
19:48.27Twingybasically I need to tell the Makefile to not build the binary until library 'L' is built
19:48.56Twingyto build tihe library in directory 'X' and the rest of the other libs to make 'L' then go back and do the program in 'X'
19:49.07``Erikheh, is this the conversion project?
19:49.16Twingyno it's M2
19:49.20``Erikmy first remark would be to re-org
19:49.32``Erikyeah, the conversion project... from imake/rt to auto/tie
19:49.34``Erikheh
19:50.12Twingyk, so no solution
19:50.15``Erikyou COULD be horribly hackish and have .PHONY targets as deps that cd $(top_builddir)/path/to/stupid && make libcruft.la
19:50.24Twingynah
19:50.43``Erikso if L and libX are build and you build X, it cd's to L to build, which cd's to X/ to build libX
19:50.49``Erikaight *shrug*
19:51.09brlcadyou put the build rules in the makefile above the lower ones
19:51.17``Erikare they aware they have circular dependancies in their build graph? and do they grok what it means? :)
19:51.44brlcadsame as if you only had one makefile or non-recursive make
19:52.39``Erik(there are solutions, just not pretty ones)
19:58.15Twingyhow about a build rule to build at install
20:00.44``Erikpossible, but generally considered bad form... look at the -hook rules in Makefile.in
20:00.55Twingy1 step ahead of you :)
20:02.52``Erikdamn I need sleep... I'm trying to figure out if anyone would notice if I peed out my office window o.O
20:21.40Twingyyou need the Castanza [tm]
20:21.48Twingyunder the desk sleeping unit
20:30.44TwingyI think I'm going to take all the two letter directories and make them libXX
20:31.45Twingybinaries and libraries should not live in the same folder
20:32.44Twingythis would be such a nightmare if I were using cvs right now
20:35.50Twingymuuuch better
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20:36.39prasad_werkdamn..
20:36.58prasad_werkglfpstest was accepted already
20:40.16brlcadnow just 6 months to form 1 it
20:50.22TwingyI'm going to smack pra5ad if he keeps signing back on irc
21:28.03Twingythat was good, I got a chance to clean up a handful of inconsistencies in the includes
21:36.24``Erikghuh
21:38.05Twingyindeed
21:38.19Twingyalmost time for my 15th day of running
22:38.22Twingy2 miles in 15:47
22:56.57``Erikewie
23:32.54brlcadmm. ice age 2
23:34.39brlcadit's all about the squirrell
23:34.43brlcad~spell squirrel
23:40.49``Eriko.O
Jeff Waugh - find it at freshmeat.net! Modified by Tim Riker to work with blootbot logs, split per channel, etc. irclog2html for #brlcad on 20060415

irclog2html for #brlcad on 20060415

02:01.17Twingyindeed
02:03.02``ErikEXTERMINATE! EXTERMINATE!
02:04.41TwingyI should stop working on M2
02:04.46``Erikyes, you should
02:04.48``Erikbitch
02:16.01Twingyfro ho
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05:03.10pra5adbad poker night
05:03.18pra5adonly $1.70 profit
05:03.22Twingyheh
05:03.32pra5adshould be $7+
05:03.37pra5adscrewed up a cpl of hands
Jeff Waugh - find it at freshmeat.net! Modified by Tim Riker to work with blootbot logs, split per channel, etc. irclog2html for #brlcad on 20060416

irclog2html for #brlcad on 20060416

02:14.39Twingygot up at 10, made it to DE at noon, picked up last bundle of wood, finished laying it at 5pm, rented a floor sander, finished sanding and returning sander at 7pm, went grocery shopping, ate dinner, went running at 9:30
02:28.14*** join/#brlcad pra5ad (n=pra5ad@pool-141-157-106-216.balt.east.verizon.net)
02:31.33Twingyhttp://www.js.cx/~justin/images/livingroom/floor_14.jpg
02:31.54pra5adartistic
02:32.10Twingy*nod*
02:32.58pra5adthe next demotivator. just add 'home ownership' to the pic
02:33.02pra5ad;) j/k
02:33.31TwingyI love it!
02:40.20pra5adthe picnic area on post is pretty nice
02:40.22pra5ad=)
02:40.33pra5adit works(tm)
02:43.48Twingyhrm?
02:44.14TwingyI got that cordless phone at work
02:44.33TwingyI should have all my calls forwarded to it so I can just hang out at the pavillion
02:44.37Twingywith my lawn chair
02:45.27TwingyI'll have to pick one up tomorrow
02:45.35TwingyI need a garbage can for the garage as well
02:48.01pra5adu need to move ur work area to the pavillion
02:48.49Twingythat is the best idea you've ever given me
03:46.42``Erikhttp://www.thesmokinggun.com/archive/0411061foot1.html  *boggle*
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16:18.07pra5adhttp://www.keiichianimeforever.com/anime/onlineanime/index.html
16:18.10pra5ad^_^
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17:54.28pra5adwow it's hot
17:54.34pra5ad100F outside or what
17:56.05pra5ad94% humidity
17:59.36archivistyour not in england then
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Jeff Waugh - find it at freshmeat.net! Modified by Tim Riker to work with blootbot logs, split per channel, etc. irclog2html for #brlcad on 20060417

irclog2html for #brlcad on 20060417

01:55.39*** join/#brlcad PKMOBILE (n=Apathy@c-68-33-243-45.hsd1.md.comcast.net)
02:04.12PKMOBILEguess what kermit is up to!
02:17.55pra5adtribes?
04:15.55Twingywhat a damn exhausting weekend
05:49.09Twingy14 hours of run time, will have to let it run over night
12:14.35``Erikthe bitch didn't tell us
13:21.29brlcado.O
17:31.07CIA-9BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/AUTHORS: special thanks to doug howard for his work during the very beginning stages of archer development.
17:34.32CIA-9BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/AUTHORS:
17:34.32CIA-9BRL-CAD: special thanks to Mark Butkiewicz of SURVICE for his considerable input
17:34.32CIA-9BRL-CAD: regarding the look and feel of archer as well as prioritizing what features to
17:34.32CIA-9BRL-CAD: add in the allotted time. he has also remained actively involved in the windows
17:34.32CIA-9BRL-CAD: port effort as well as general collaboration, support, and suggestions for the
17:34.35CIA-9BRL-CAD: package as a whole.
17:42.52``Erikoh my, archer is being snarfed into brlcad, or are we supporting it all third party, yo?
17:48.26brlcadarcher was already snarfed in a couple months ago
17:48.35brlcadit's fully contributed
17:48.45brlcadi.e. not 3rd party
18:36.35``Erikwhoa
19:28.39archivistno change there then
19:30.06brlcadpretty much
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Jeff Waugh - find it at freshmeat.net! Modified by Tim Riker to work with blootbot logs, split per channel, etc. irclog2html for #brlcad on 20060418

irclog2html for #brlcad on 20060418

03:02.53Twingy2nd coat of polyurethane is dry
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14:32.37CIA-9BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/TODO: test for USE_FORKED_THREADS in configure
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17:00.29digitalfredy#freenode
17:00.32digitalfredyepa
17:00.38digitalfredysorry
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Jeff Waugh - find it at freshmeat.net! Modified by Tim Riker to work with blootbot logs, split per channel, etc. irclog2html for #brlcad on 20060419

irclog2html for #brlcad on 20060419

05:10.11*** join/#brlcad digitalfredy (n=diegomot@200.119.94.224)
05:10.48digitalfredyhello docelic DTRemenak pra5ad guu ibot @brlcad @ChanServ CIA-9 archivist Twingy ``Erik
05:12.08digitalfredyi read in the cvs / doc to like pass your doc to docbook and y like helps in this work
05:12.34Twingytalk to brlcad/leaner when he is on
05:14.02digitalfredyTwingy: ok tanks
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06:32.16brlcaddigitalfredy: glad to hear it, love to talk to you more about it in a few hours
07:11.53digitalfredybrlcad: ping
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20:03.11digitalfredybrlcad: ping
20:03.41brlcadpong
20:04.13brlcadso you're interested in converting the docs to docbook format..
20:04.30brlcadhow familiar are you with docbook?
20:04.35digitalfredybrlcad: i like help whit the doc in
20:04.38digitalfredyyes
20:05.14digitalfredybrlcad: is the doc in pdf ?
20:05.28brlcaddepends which documentation you're referring to
20:05.34brlcadthere's a lot of it, in various formats
20:05.53digitalfredyi read the IDEAS in the cvs/doc
20:05.54brlcadmost of the documents on the website are available in pdf and msword format
20:06.43digitalfredyok say me who is the most important for begin
20:06.50brlcadthe documentation in /doc is a mix of text, troff/nroff, manpages, etc
20:07.44brlcadthe most important "first" one is probably the "Overview of BRL-CAD" on the website, http://brlcad.org
20:08.12brlcad1, 2, and 3 there are by far the most frequently read
20:08.38brlcad1 is available in html, doc, pdf
20:08.56digitalfredybrlcad: i can made all in one book
20:09.02brlcad2 and 3 are available as  pdf and doc
20:10.04brlcaddigitalfredy: yeah, how it's all organized is a quesion in itself
20:10.24digitalfredyyou can send me the .doc's to my mail?
20:10.25brlcadone massive "book", multiple books, articles, etc
20:14.14digitalfredybrlcad: send me the .doc's my mail is digitalfredy@debiancolombia.org
20:18.17brlcaddigitalfredy: how about you start with just the overview one first and we see how well that works out
20:19.32digitalfredybrlcad: ok i start with overview
20:20.23brlcadare you familiar with tldp?
20:20.50brlcadthey have several docbook processing tools of interest, as does the gforge project
20:20.51digitalfredythe linux documentation proyect
20:20.58brlcadyes
20:21.33digitalfredyand docbook is used for the linux kernel documentation
20:21.34brlcadthe gforge project has tools in their cvs that automates the processing of docbook quite nicely
20:23.17brlcadyeah, docbook is great for technical docs -- just hard for editors expecting a decent editor :)
20:23.17digitalfredycan you send me a reference of any document in particular?
20:23.49brlcadgforge would be the first I suggest looking at, their entire documentation is docbook
20:24.38brlcadhttp://gforge.org/plugins/scmcvs/cvsweb.php/gforge/docs/docbook/?cvsroot=gforge
20:25.56brlcadthey did theirs as one book, with the major sections as chapters if I remember
20:26.15brlcadi'm slightly more inclined to produce multiple books
20:26.55brlcadbut even one book would work just fine
20:27.48digitalfredybrlcad: i think in one book for becouse is best for example for made a package brlcad-doc
20:31.03digitalfredybrlcad: i can to be slow becouse not speak englis veri well, if you not understand me, say
20:32.38brlcadte entiendo perfectamente ;)
20:33.09brlcadpor supuesto ;)
20:33.09digitalfredyy yo matandome
20:33.13brlcadjeje
20:33.20digitalfredybueno esto hace mejor las cosas
20:33.55digitalfredybrlcad: tengo que hacer una diligencia pero regreso en un rato
20:33.56brlcadaunque hago errores todo el tiempo, lo hablo mucho mejor que lo escribo
20:34.14brlcadesta bien
20:34.32digitalfredybrlcad: en que pais estas? usa?
20:34.44brlcadsi
20:35.18brlcadson las 4 y media
20:35.51digitalfredysolo tenemos corrida una hora yo tengo las 3:40
20:36.22brlcadme imaginé cuando te fuiste anoche
20:36.48brlcadta bien
20:36.49digitalfredybye
20:36.52brlcadciao
20:36.57digitalfredychao
20:37.01*** part/#brlcad digitalfredy (n=digitalf@200.119.94.158)
22:28.39``Erikummm, soy un perdedor, or something
22:28.40``Erik:D
22:28.57``Erik<-- learned all his spanish from taco bell and beck songs
Jeff Waugh - find it at freshmeat.net! Modified by Tim Riker to work with blootbot logs, split per channel, etc. irclog2html for #brlcad on 20060420

irclog2html for #brlcad on 20060420

00:06.24*** join/#brlcad PrezKennedy (n=Apathy@c-68-33-243-45.hsd1.md.comcast.net)
00:52.50PrezKennedyso i heard this rumor about putting up a tribes server or something
00:53.22PrezKennedyits craziness!
00:53.32brlcadi've said it like a dozen times
00:54.10PrezKennedyeh then he'll never stop playing
00:54.18PrezKennedyhe'll stop showing up for work
00:54.30brlcadlike he'll ever stop anyways
00:54.53PrezKennedyhe only stops tribes to play generals or red alert
00:55.03PrezKennedyand a lot of the time he just leaves it running
01:23.25PrezKennedywell setting up a tribes 2 dedicated server would be considerably easier if i still had linux installed
01:23.30PrezKennedybut that was 2 hard drives ago
01:54.28TwingyI want a toughbook
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12:31.10CIA-9BRL-CAD: 03jlowenz 07trimnurbs-branch * 10brlcad/include/nurb.h: Added declaration for trim-to-bezier curve conversion routine, and updated uv in trim test function to accept a list of trims instead of a surface (since the trims are preprocessed.
12:34.17CIA-9BRL-CAD: 03jlowenz 07trimnurbs-branch * 10brlcad/src/librt/g_nurb.c: added support for preprocessing trims into beziers.
13:09.57CIA-9BRL-CAD: 03jlowenz 07trimnurbs-branch * 10brlcad/src/librt/nurb_bezier.c: support for preprocessing non-bezier trims to bezier trims
13:12.15CIA-9BRL-CAD: 03jlowenz 07trimnurbs-branch * 10brlcad/src/librt/nurb_knot.c: logging updates
13:29.54CIA-9BRL-CAD: 03jlowenz 07trimnurbs-branch * 10brlcad/src/librt/nurb_trim.c: modified rt_nurb_uv_trimmed to support a list of trims instead of a surface (to support the preprocessing)
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14:01.42Alonhi
14:02.23AlonI'm a ver very very newbie to brl-cad..  where can I find getting started docs? I am using linux and have got it instaalled and somewhat working
14:10.17``Erikhttp://www.yikers.com/video_dick_cheney_takes_out_the_easter_bunny.html
14:26.09brlcad<PROTECTED>
14:31.05brlcaddocuments 1  2 3
15:09.35brlcadthey're also not provided during the install, they should be
15:15.48CIA-9BRL-CAD: 03lbutler * 10brlcad/regress/ (Makefile.am slave_build.sh):
15:15.48CIA-9BRL-CAD: Make sure directory has been created (slave_build.sh) or wait for it.
15:15.48CIA-9BRL-CAD: Indicate that the regression test is done, but not whether it was successful or not. (Makefile.am)
15:20.28CIA-9BRL-CAD: 03lbutler * 10brlcad/regress/ (9 files):
15:20.28CIA-9BRL-CAD: Updates to make it easier to check the status of a regression test. Each test
15:20.28CIA-9BRL-CAD: now reports its notion of whether it succeeded or failed.
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21:45.41CIA-9BRL-CAD: 03lbutler * 10brlcad/regress/ (8 files): Fixed various sh/csh syntax errrors.
Jeff Waugh - find it at freshmeat.net! Modified by Tim Riker to work with blootbot logs, split per channel, etc. irclog2html for #brlcad on 20060421

irclog2html for #brlcad on 20060421

00:42.40*** join/#brlcad docelic (n=docelic@clj34-71.dial-up.arnes.si)
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11:39.55MaloeranIn case you happen to see this question, pra5ad, what is your preference between Verilog and vhdl, if you don't mind me asking? After learning the basics of both, I'm still unsure which way to go
12:02.59MaloeranI have the vague dream of implementing raytracing hardware, a fpga. I really like the level of parallelism found at the hardware design level, it's both challenging and has nice potential for high performance
12:11.17archivisthmm opensource 3D hardware graphics engine
12:12.30MaloeranOpen-source, possibly... Are you part of the Brl-Cad team? If yes, would you mind me asking what your first name is?
12:12.48MaloeranJust to associate the correct nicknames to the people I know
12:14.12archivistIm external in UK
12:14.37archivistDave Caroline
12:15.21MaloeranRight, we haven't met :)
12:21.17archivistunless you were at Dayton hamfest a few years ago
12:52.24``Erikwasn't there a group trying to make an "open source" video card (regular ogl&fb style) ...
12:56.51archivistI seem to remember something but the I suppose nvidia et al keep producing faster stuff overtaking opensource efforts
12:59.14pra5adno preference here
13:03.15pra5adheh the only thing i can say from my experience is that abel is dead
13:03.17pra5ad:)
13:04.58MaloeranThat couldn't possibly work too well, ``Erik, I doubt the funding matches Nvidia's
13:05.22MaloeranOn the other hand, if the raytracing techniques are released under a license that forbids commercial use... :)
13:06.39archivistis there ray tracing in the commercials that could be used
13:07.10MaloeranI have one written right here, faster than anything else
13:09.53MaloeranSo pra5ad, you use both equally? Is each better for some tasks?
13:13.48``Erikhey, I didn't say it was a good idea or that it had a chance, just that something like that existed at some point :) (and it's goal wasn't to compete with nvidia, more like commoditizing the low/mid end of the market so drivers for non-ms os's wouldn't suck)
13:14.48archivistusing fpga for the job enables future proofing as well
13:15.39``Erikeh?
13:16.14``Erikthe fp in fpga means it can be updated in the future, as long as the new design doesn't use more cells than the fpga has...
13:16.39``Eriknow an asic would mean new masks, new runs, and all the old ic's are garbage...
13:17.06``Erikone of these days, I'm gonna dust off the fpga experimentors board sitting in my cabinet
13:17.29archivistfpga things usually cost to much for commodity cards though
13:18.00``Erikdepends on the price of the card and size of the run
13:18.22``Erika lot of commodity small run equipment uses fpga's cuz it's cheaper than asic...
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18:30.27digitalfredybrlcad: overview is aprox 80% in docbook xml :)
18:32.05digitalfredybye i have to go
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18:36.41brlcadsweet
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Jeff Waugh - find it at freshmeat.net! Modified by Tim Riker to work with blootbot logs, split per channel, etc. irclog2html for #brlcad on 20060422

irclog2html for #brlcad on 20060422

01:15.51Twingyrunning 2 miles in the cold rain, not fun
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Jeff Waugh - find it at freshmeat.net! Modified by Tim Riker to work with blootbot logs, split per channel, etc. irclog2html for #brlcad on 20060423

irclog2html for #brlcad on 20060423

02:49.52``Erikls
02:49.54``Erikwoops
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Jeff Waugh - find it at freshmeat.net! Modified by Tim Riker to work with blootbot logs, split per channel, etc. irclog2html for #brlcad on 20060424

irclog2html for #brlcad on 20060424

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17:19.25CIA-9BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/NEWS: need to quantify exactly what sort of dxf-g enhancements john added, but it's a something so as not to forget
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Jeff Waugh - find it at freshmeat.net! Modified by Tim Riker to work with blootbot logs, split per channel, etc. irclog2html for #brlcad on 20060425

irclog2html for #brlcad on 20060425

00:05.31pra5adheh presentation was most excellent
00:05.46Twingydid you score any chicks?
00:05.54pra5adall married
00:06.03TwingyI'd say it was only mediocre then
00:06.34pra5admy grade isnt a function of the # of chicks i score with
00:06.41pra5adso id say it was excellent
00:06.43Twingyyou're in the wrong school then
00:06.57pra5adyea, i should be at NJIT
00:06.57Twingywhat do you think erik?
00:07.04Twingyno no, NJIT it horrible
00:07.08pra5adduh
00:07.09Twingythey have no womenz
00:07.21Twingythe 12% women they DO have are in architecture
00:07.32Twingyand like 0.1% in comp sci/math/physics
00:07.44pra5adwhen u find the school that has hot women in their cs program, let me know
00:07.59Twingydepends on how long it takes me to start one
00:08.28Twingymmm, pizza is almost done
00:08.42Twingythen a blissful night of coding
00:08.59pra5adhmm pretty much done with this semester
00:09.02pra5adso i should be coding too
00:09.29Twingywhatcha gonna write
00:09.38pra5adwebsite
00:09.44Twingy*yawn*
00:09.59pra5adin java, that uses jini
00:10.03pra5adhah!
00:12.15Twingybbl, pizza
00:25.05``Erikthere were a couple hot chicks in my cs program :/
00:25.11``Erikalso; married != un-scorable.
00:26.24``Eriky'know, apples mach manpages ... the very very very few that exist suck.
00:26.56``Erikat least on fbsd, there was awesome docs and on leenewx, the proc fs was well documented.
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Jeff Waugh - find it at freshmeat.net! Modified by Tim Riker to work with blootbot logs, split per channel, etc. irclog2html for #brlcad on 20060426

irclog2html for #brlcad on 20060426

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Jeff Waugh - find it at freshmeat.net! Modified by Tim Riker to work with blootbot logs, split per channel, etc. irclog2html for #brlcad on 20060427

irclog2html for #brlcad on 20060427

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02:40.17digitalfredybrlcad:  ping
03:14.20digitalfredybrlcad: ping
04:18.06``Erikheh
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Jeff Waugh - find it at freshmeat.net! Modified by Tim Riker to work with blootbot logs, split per channel, etc. irclog2html for #brlcad on 20060428

irclog2html for #brlcad on 20060428

01:07.31*** join/#brlcad DTRemenak (n=Daniel_R@c-24-23-59-104.hsd1.ca.comcast.net)
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05:35.30digitalfredybrlcad: ping
05:42.08digitalfredybrlcad: writeme a mail digitalfredy [at] debiancolombia.org
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10:15.11MaDrensehi ppl
10:15.18MaDrensejust download the windows version ..
10:15.39MaDrensebut in mged when i open one of the samples i get nothing in the GUI ?
10:31.11MaDrensehello ?
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15:00.12CIA-9BRL-CAD: 03d_rossberg * 10brlcad/src/libwdb/pipe.c: wdb_export frees the pipe structure; consequently, do not touch it afterwards
15:10.08CIA-9BRL-CAD: 03d_rossberg * 10brlcad/src/librt/g_bot_include.c: crash with MSVC 6.0 release build because of an access behind bot->bot_facearray boundaries
15:13.19CIA-9BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/TODO: Optional compile-time support for using GMP or CLN for arbitrary precision arithmetic
15:14.27brlcadd_rossberg: for the g_bot_include bug -- what was crashing?
15:14.33brlcadand you've been busy.. excellent ;)
15:16.24brlcadi'm asking as i was going to update the NEWS file with the description of how that bug is exposed to users (unless you want to)
15:18.12CIA-9BRL-CAD: 03d_rossberg * 10brlcad/NEWS: fixed crash in release build
15:19.39d_rossbergbrlcad: the bug was in rt_bot_piece_shot_* i.e. it's a potential crash for every bot raytrace
15:22.51CIA-9BRL-CAD: 03d_rossberg * 10brlcad/NEWS: forgot to add my name
15:24.23brlcadd_rossberg: i gathered as much, did you actually experience a crash too?
15:28.35d_rossbergyes, i got crashes with the libraries i'm using for my viewer
15:29.34d_rossbergdebugging the relese build (with line numbers as the only debug information) led me to g_bot_include
15:31.13CIA-9BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/NEWS: it's a stack, most recent go on top
15:32.14brlcadnice catch
15:35.30d_rossbergit looks like i was the first one who uses mk_pipe
15:36.26d_rossbergconsequently, nobody will notice the changes in libwdb
15:55.58CIA-9BRL-CAD: 03d_rossberg * 10brlcad/NEWS: Rossberg with utf-8 character
16:55.36brlcador maybe not, but something odd for sure
16:57.26brlcadah, looks like it is right, I'm just set on ISO-8859-1
17:04.42``Erikheh, sean, if you had unsaved data on your desktop, you don't have it anymore :) o.O
17:43.31``Erikthey're gonna fuck with building power over the weekend (I believe leaving it off most of it), so all the 'puters are supposed to be unplugged o.O
17:43.41``Erikhope you don't got too many perishables in the fridges
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18:24.22MaloeranIRC services getting a segfault? Ah! :}
18:40.30``Erikwhuddya expect, man, it's freenode... :)
20:44.25``Erikdet
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22:45.21CIA-9BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/TODO: working on clone/tracker; EF importer plugin is on the asap list; mingw is delayed; added toy jeep; unpush idea for later.
Jeff Waugh - find it at freshmeat.net! Modified by Tim Riker to work with blootbot logs, split per channel, etc. irclog2html for #brlcad on 20060429

irclog2html for #brlcad on 20060429

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03:01.05CIA-9BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/db/ (toyjeep.asc Makefile.am): add an toy barbie (tm) jeep (tm) modeled in 2005 over the course of a day by a group of students attending a BRL-CAD (tm) training course at SURVICE
03:02.50CIA-9BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/conv/asc2g.c: default units to millimeters instead of aborting if the units specified are unknown
03:05.12CIA-9BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/conv/g2asc.c: if the _GLOBAL object has attributes set other than units and title, write them out. also make sure the units are not (null) before writing them out.
03:10.39CIA-9BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/gtools/g_diff.c: let the user know if there are no differences and be more specific on difference when external representations differ.
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Jeff Waugh - find it at freshmeat.net! Modified by Tim Riker to work with blootbot logs, split per channel, etc. irclog2html for #brlcad on 20060430

irclog2html for #brlcad on 20060430

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03:20.29CIA-9BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/mged/ged.c: fix the mged logging so that it actually works now and consistently writes events. clean up the whitespace while refactoring the closure of a db to f_closedb() consistently.
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06:55.42pra5adwomen..
06:55.50pra5adwhy cant they make up their minds..
06:55.54pra5adsigh
20:22.17CIA-9BRL-CAD: 03johnranderson * 10brlcad/src/conv/ (dxf-g.c dxf-g.1):
20:22.17CIA-9BRL-CAD: Added support for ELLIPSE entities, added a bit more logging, updated
20:22.18CIA-9BRL-CAD: man page.
Jeff Waugh - find it at freshmeat.net! Modified by Tim Riker to work with blootbot logs, split per channel, etc. irclog2html for #brlcad on 20060501

irclog2html for #brlcad on 20060501

02:17.43CIA-9BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/librt/wdb_obj.c: comments, remove dead new proc creation code (there's a func for that creating a wdbp function object)
02:19.36CIA-9BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/conv/g2asc.1:
02:19.36CIA-9BRL-CAD: update the manpage with more up-to-date information and details. mention that
02:19.36CIA-9BRL-CAD: current format is a tcl script, that the conversion to ascii isn't strictly
02:19.36CIA-9BRL-CAD: necessary any longer since v5 format is portable, and that the ascii format
02:19.36CIA-9BRL-CAD: should not be used by external codes.
02:20.39CIA-9BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/conv/dbupgrade.1: initial manual page for the dbupgrade command, basic usage info
02:22.31CIA-9BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/conv/asc2g.c: add support for carriage returns so old ascii files copied from windows parse correctly. use a little less emphatic emphasis on error (!!!)
02:22.55CIA-9BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/conv/dbupgrade.c: ws, indent
02:23.23CIA-9BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/conv/Makefile.am: add new dbupgrade.1 manpage
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05:02.56digitalfredybrlcad: hello
06:26.49digitalfredybrlcad: hello, i like to you see the docbook xml work for overview
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08:25.28brlcadack
08:25.49brlcadhe keeps picks horribly inconsistent times :)
08:29.42CIA-9BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/NEWS:
08:29.42CIA-9BRL-CAD: fixed g2asc export of null units bug. there was a situation where the current
08:29.42CIA-9BRL-CAD: units could not be determined and a (null) was export to the ascii file. this
08:29.42CIA-9BRL-CAD: would halt an asc2g. if the units cannot be determined, they are not output
08:29.42CIA-9BRL-CAD: (i.e. no (null)) now.
08:31.39CIA-9BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/NEWS:
08:31.39CIA-9BRL-CAD: g2asc now saves additional _GLOBAL attribute values. previously, only the units
08:31.39CIA-9BRL-CAD: and title were exported so that if a user had manually added additional
08:31.39CIA-9BRL-CAD: attributes they were not being saved, now they are saved as attr commands in the
08:31.39CIA-9BRL-CAD: ascii format. (a situation where this was important was where a 'disclaimer'
08:31.42CIA-9BRL-CAD: and 'description' attribute were added in addition to the title.
08:33.46CIA-9BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/NEWS:
08:33.46CIA-9BRL-CAD: g_diff reports more detail whether differences exist. if the external forms are
08:33.46CIA-9BRL-CAD: being compared, it will report whether the lengths differ or the contents
08:33.46CIA-9BRL-CAD: (previously was an unknown either/or difference). also g_diff will summarize
08:33.46CIA-9BRL-CAD: and actually say that it found no differences instead of just ending a statement
08:33.48CIA-9BRL-CAD: like there is something more like the following:
08:36.08CIA-9BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/NEWS:
08:36.08CIA-9BRL-CAD: fixed g_diff attribute comparison issue. when doing a g_diff, attributes were
08:36.09CIA-9BRL-CAD: not being compared in order if the db command fails to tclify the exported
08:36.09CIA-9BRL-CAD: version resulting in a binary 'these objects seem to differ' when they did not.
08:36.09CIA-9BRL-CAD: the tclification was improved so it can perform a proper ordered attribute
08:36.11CIA-9BRL-CAD: comparison under more cases.
08:38.05CIA-9BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/NEWS: (log message trimmed)
08:38.05CIA-9BRL-CAD: updated the g2asc manual page with format details. the manpage still talked
08:38.05CIA-9BRL-CAD: about it being necessary for platform independent conversions, language and
08:38.05CIA-9BRL-CAD: details were updated to note that this is no longer the case (that the binary
08:38.05CIA-9BRL-CAD: will work just fine). also mentions that binary and ascii are open specs,
08:38.08CIA-9BRL-CAD: though ascii is subject to deprecation change without notice whereas the binary
08:38.10CIA-9BRL-CAD: is not. also that the ascii should not be relied upon by external developers but
08:38.30CIA-9BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/NEWS: added dbupgrade manual page. one didn't exist
08:41.05CIA-9BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/NEWS:
08:41.05CIA-9BRL-CAD: fixed asc2g bug reading files with carriage returns. if you attempted to run
08:41.05CIA-9BRL-CAD: asc2g on a .asc file that came directly from the windows platform and had
08:41.05CIA-9BRL-CAD: embedded carriage returns ('\r'), it would incorrectly parse the v4 I units
08:41.05CIA-9BRL-CAD: version string dumping out a wierd undecipherable overlapping error (printing
08:41.07CIA-9BRL-CAD: the carriage return), now it handles them correctly.
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13:49.49``Erikhm
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14:50.46CIA-9BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/NEWS:
14:50.46CIA-9BRL-CAD: john continues on his dxf-g rampage with manpage enhancements and additional
14:50.46CIA-9BRL-CAD: support to dxf-g for ELLIPSE entities. earlier he added support for LWPOLYLINE,
14:50.46CIA-9BRL-CAD: MTEXT, LEADER, ATTRIB, SOLID, and ATTDEF entity states -- all grouped into one
14:50.46CIA-9BRL-CAD: news entry for dxf-g enhancements.
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16:52.53digitalfredybrlcad: ping
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16:56.27``Erikheh
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17:05.37CIA-9BRL-CAD: 03bob1961 * 10brlcad/src/tclscripts/archer/GeometryEditFrame.tcl: Minor tweek to anchor the edit panel north
17:07.09CIA-9BRL-CAD: 03bob1961 * 10brlcad/src/tclscripts/archer/CombEditFrame.tcl: Minor tweek to anchor the edit panel north
17:11.37CIA-9BRL-CAD: 03bob1961 * 10brlcad/src/tclscripts/archer/Archer.tcl: Temporarily (i.e. until this functionality is available) removing the "Compact" menu item when viewing BRL-CAD geometry. Minor mods to reflect change in the tree widget.
17:18.27CIA-9BRL-CAD: 03bob1961 * 10brlcad/src/tclscripts/swidgets/scripts/tree.itk: Check-in for Doug Howard. Mods to support multi-select and cut-n-paste.
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17:28.10CIA-9BRL-CAD: 03bob1961 * 10brlcad/src/tclscripts/archer/images/Themes/ (9 files in 3 dirs): Add images to support future functionality (i.e. multi-select and cut-n-paste)
17:30.04brlcaddigitalfredy: pong!
17:30.09brlcadbeen missing you all week
17:30.12digitalfredyhey
17:30.32digitalfredyi made the xml for overview
17:30.43digitalfredyare only one problem
17:31.25digitalfredybrlcad:
17:31.27brlcadexcellent
17:31.33digitalfredythe problem is in the
17:31.57digitalfredyhoja de estilo but is not a big problem, fine
17:32.28digitalfredybrlcad: who is your mail for send you the xml and html
17:33.32digitalfredyand i was missing becouse i was sick
17:33.41brlcadte lo envie en un mensaje privado, lo tienes?
17:34.35digitalfredybrlcad: si
17:35.07digitalfredybrlcad: i made one book
17:35.26digitalfredybut i think to is best made a only one big book
17:35.37brlcadand the reasoning for that? :)
17:36.26digitalfredywait a moment and send you a link for review a structure in other book as example
17:38.14digitalfredybrlcad: see http://www.sagehill.net/docbookxsl/index.html
17:38.30brlcadi was reading up last week on some work done with xinclude to get modular docbook files
17:38.37digitalfredythe preface is the overview
17:38.48digitalfredyand every part is a book
17:38.56digitalfredyand all is a big book
17:39.41brlcadahh, that's better.. the "main book" is really a set of books yes?
17:39.55brlcadwith a book for each 'part' of the set
17:40.12digitalfredyyes
17:40.19digitalfredyyes
17:40.28brlcadthat approach sounds reasonable
17:40.39brlcadhave you worked at all with Xinclude?
17:40.44brlcad(i haven't)
17:41.09brlcadspeaking of which is referenced in that book: http://www.sagehill.net/docbookxsl/ModularDoc.html
17:41.19digitalfredybrlcad: in spanis, can understand
17:41.56brlcadpregunte si has usado Xinclude? (yo no..)
17:42.14digitalfredyno pero puedo revisarlo
17:42.39brlcadlo refiere en aquel libro aquí: http://www.sagehill.net/docbookxsl/ModularDoc.html
17:45.12brlcadeso te deja separar libros en secciones y usar los en diferente lugares manteniendo un archivo xml valido
17:45.54brlcadi'm just not sure whether it's really worth it or not.. i'll ask some of my other xml expert friends to see what they know ;)
17:46.14digitalfredyhaaa si creo que se
17:46.52digitalfredypara crear por ejemplo un archivo con cada parte y luego en otro hacer el include de todos los archivos?
17:55.32brlcadsi, pero sin usar entity references
17:55.49brlcadahh.. xsltproc --xinclude.. excellent
17:56.01brlcadso that should be the way to go..
17:59.39digitalfredybrlcad: cant understand well
17:59.58digitalfredybrlcad: esta es el camino a seguir  o algo asi?
18:05.57brlcadsi!
18:06.10brlcadsounds perfecto
18:06.51digitalfredybegin the big book?
18:08.30brlcadmirando lo que me enviaste.. un momento
18:10.17brlcadwow
18:11.52brlcaddigitalfredy: me parece asombroso!
18:11.59digitalfredybrlcad: rewrite the overview like preface
18:12.01brlcadthat looks great, really great
18:12.02digitalfredyyes?
18:12.07digitalfredyemacs
18:12.11brlcad:)
18:12.14digitalfredyi love emacs
18:12.26brlcadhehe
18:12.36digitalfredyfine
18:12.54brlcadseriously, that is like exactly what I was hoping for
18:14.26brlcadte puedo mandar los otros documentos grandes si quieres ya
18:14.36digitalfredyyes
18:16.03digitalfredybrlcad: who is the licence for the doc?
18:16.13digitalfredyfor put it in the book
18:16.48brlcadall the new documentation is dual-licensed
18:19.19brlcady eso quiere decir que el documentation esta cubrido por el GFDL o si quieren el GPL
18:19.55brlcadFrom BRL-CAD's COPYING file in CVS:
18:19.59brlcadUnless otherwise denoted, all of BRL-CAD's documentation is made
18:19.59brlcadavailable under the terms of the GNU Free Documentation License (GFDL)
18:19.59brlcador, at your option, under the terms of the GNU General Public License
18:19.59brlcad(GPL) as published by the Free Software Foundation.  Several older
18:19.59brlcaddocuments (e.g. published by the U.S. Government prior to being
18:20.02brlcadreleased as Open Source) are in the public domain.  
18:20.28brlcadel ultimo frase se puede eliminar para eso
18:23.18digitalfredyok
18:25.14digitalfredy``Erik: fine
18:25.20digitalfredylesson 1
18:25.32digitalfredyhello in spanish is hola
18:25.39brlcadthe copyright, different from the license should probably be something to the effect of:
18:25.43brlcad<PROTECTED>
18:25.45brlcad<PROTECTED>
18:25.46``Erikheh, I know that much :)
18:25.54brlcadand tequila
18:25.58brlcadmeans..
18:25.59brlcadtequila
18:26.00``Erikmmm tequila
18:26.17``Erikmew-ee bway-no
18:26.18``ErikI mean, uh
18:26.19``ErikO:-)
18:26.29digitalfredyaguardiente :)
18:26.40brlcadjej
18:28.50digitalfredybrlcad: All Rights Reserved?
18:29.14``Erikand post tequila, http://www.killsometime.com/pictures/Picture.asp?ID=246
18:33.21brlcaddigitalfredy: it's a standard disclaimer you find along with just about any english copyright -- authorship rights are explicitly desired instead of giving it away without any limitiation.
18:33.52brlcadthat in turn is extended by the GFDL/GPL which say specifically what is given away under what restrictions
18:34.35digitalfredyyes some Rights Reserved
18:34.56digitalfredyno all
18:36.07brlcadit's not a contention point -- for the book, the phrase could probably be left out so long as it includes the COPYING details somewhere as well
18:37.33brlcadand still the original author does retain all rights -- recipients are bound by the license and copyright law
18:37.59``Eriktalked to a lawyer from the eff to see if it was good that way (since they have a "nomodification" policy, they wanted a copy of the tex file for re-use and asked it to be put under their doc license, heh
18:38.01``Erik)
18:38.42brlcadthey wanted the tex-formatted gpl language provided under the gfdl?
18:38.49brlcadthat's funny
18:39.17digitalfredybrlcad: i thik to cc is best licences for documentation
18:39.55digitalfredybut no problem first the first
18:40.01digitalfredyfirst put the doc in docbook
18:40.02brlcadwhat benefits does it provide over the current dual-license? :)
18:40.39``Erikhttp://explorerdestroyer.com/ o.O
18:40.54brlcadi don't have religion on it, i frankly don't care a whole lot about the license on the docs -- it's hard enough to find people that are willing to work on documentation, let alone argue on how free to make the docs ;)
18:41.31brlcadi'd just as likely make all the docs public domain or CC as the current gpl/gfdl
18:46.17digitalfredybrlcad: i have to go, speack after
18:46.36brlcadsounds great.. i'll send you the docs
18:47.00brlcadthanks for working on the docs.. very cool
18:47.15brlcadi'll have to get your name and contact details at some point for announcements
18:47.21brlcadand credits
18:47.26digitalfredyok
18:47.42digitalfredyi send you a mail
Jeff Waugh - find it at freshmeat.net! Modified by Tim Riker to work with blootbot logs, split per channel, etc. irclog2html for #brlcad on 20060502

irclog2html for #brlcad on 20060502

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13:47.11CIA-9BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/db/toyjeep.asc: they are trademarks of mattel and daimler-crysler
13:50.34CIA-9BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/NEWS: a new toy barbie jeep model was added, include a nice write-up of where the model comes from, the training class that produced it, and general overview of what was involved.
14:34.02CIA-9BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/NEWS: archer gets support for multi-select and cut-n-paste from doug howard
14:35.10CIA-9BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/AUTHORS: utf-8 version of Daniel's last name..
14:38.24CIA-9BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/tclscripts/archer/images/Themes/Crystal/Makefile.am: missing a handful of new files
14:41.55CIA-9BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/tclscripts/archer/images/Themes/Crystal_Large/Makefile.am: missing a handful of new files
14:56.41CIA-9BRL-CAD: 03prasad_silva * 10brlcad/src/conv/ (g-var.1 g-var.c Makefile.am): Added a vertex array exporter
14:58.35CIA-9BRL-CAD: 03prasad_silva * 10brlcad/src/conv/.cvsignore: Added g-var executable to ignore list
15:05.20CIA-9BRL-CAD: 03prasad_silva * 10brlcad/NEWS: g-var news
15:21.18CIA-9BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/AUTHORS: prasad silva (arl) makes his first contribution with a new g-var tool
16:38.32CIA-9BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/tclscripts/archer/images/Themes/Crystal (Large)/ (56 files): src/tclscripts/archer/images/Themes/Crystal (Large) was renamed/moved to Crystal_Large, deleted
Jeff Waugh - find it at freshmeat.net! Modified by Tim Riker to work with blootbot logs, split per channel, etc. irclog2html for #brlcad on 20060503

irclog2html for #brlcad on 20060503

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15:52.47CIA-9BRL-CAD: 03bob1961 * 10brlcad/src/tclscripts/archer/CombEditFrame.tcl: Added code to potentially activate the "Accept" button etc. when tabbing to another entry.
15:54.09CIA-9BRL-CAD: 03bob1961 * 10brlcad/src/tclscripts/archer/Archer.tcl: Added version info to the bottom of the "About" dialog.
15:55.22CIA-9BRL-CAD: 03bob1961 * 10brlcad/src/tclscripts/archer/images/aboutArcher.png: Removed version info.
16:20.22CIA-9BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/mged/ged.c: john noticed that sys/stat.h is needed for S_IRUSR and a few other mode flags now being used if DEBUG is enabled
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18:43.35digitalfredyhi
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21:21.33CIA-9BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/NEWS: moved archer version info to bottom of about dialog
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Jeff Waugh - find it at freshmeat.net! Modified by Tim Riker to work with blootbot logs, split per channel, etc. irclog2html for #brlcad on 20060504

irclog2html for #brlcad on 20060504

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03:31.02digitalfredybrlcad: have a question about the document, are you in the chanel?
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18:16.41*** topic/#brlcad is http://brlcad.org/ || BRL-CAD is now Free Software! || Release 7.8.0 is Posted!
Jeff Waugh - find it at freshmeat.net! Modified by Tim Riker to work with blootbot logs, split per channel, etc. irclog2html for #brlcad on 20060505

irclog2html for #brlcad on 20060505

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Jeff Waugh - find it at freshmeat.net! Modified by Tim Riker to work with blootbot logs, split per channel, etc. irclog2html for #brlcad on 20060506

irclog2html for #brlcad on 20060506

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Jeff Waugh - find it at freshmeat.net! Modified by Tim Riker to work with blootbot logs, split per channel, etc. irclog2html for #brlcad on 20060507

irclog2html for #brlcad on 20060507

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22:50.30cad436hello
22:51.14brlcadhowdy
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22:51.55AdamdanielHi
22:51.55brlcadand he returns
22:52.15AdamdanielI was wondering if someone could help me with my Windows BRL cad installation.
22:52.26brlcad"possibly"
22:52.29AdamdanielI have it up and running, but it says no database
22:52.31brlcadit depends on what the problem is
22:52.33brlcadah
22:52.44brlcadyou need to specify a database :)
22:53.11brlcad(geometry files are known as geometry database files)
22:53.24brlcadso opening a database means, you need to open a file
22:53.39Adamdanielthanks.
22:53.49brlcadyou can do that by going to Open on the file menu or typing: opendb test.g    on the command line
22:53.54AdamdanielI downloaded the tutorial (am nub obviously)
22:54.04brlcadwelcome
22:54.57AdamdanielOf the open source programs I looked at, BRL-Cad looked the most promising for a nub like me.
22:55.17AdamdanielI want to learn cad, I have a design I want to market.
22:55.20brlcadit's in full production use, and has been around forever ;)
22:55.33brlcadfree doesn't hurt too
22:55.41Adamdanielamen to that.
22:56.16AdamdanielIs the tutorial from the site a good place to start, or is there another that might be better?
22:56.27brlcadit's got a pretty hefty learning curve (as just about every CAD system does), but it's pretty featured
22:57.05brlcadthe "Introduction to MGED" on the website is meant to be fairly comprehensive (and not "short", though it can be completed in a day)
22:57.37brlcadbe sure to check out the MGED Quick Reference Card to have on hand
22:57.56Adamdanielis someone in this channel most of the time too?
22:59.06AdamdanielI appreciate you answering my questions, I am sure I will have more, but I am off to do some reading :0
22:59.08AdamdanielThanks.
22:59.12brlcadmost of the time, yeah
23:02.15animallhow well does the x86-64 linux version work?
23:02.36animallor will some of the features hang up on 64bit linux?
23:03.18brlcadit should work just fine
23:03.54brlcadif there are any problems, please report them (sf.net/projects/brlcad under the bugs section or here)
23:03.54animallgood, now if some of the movie players would get with the program and support 64 bit, i would be real happy
23:04.14brlcadbrl-cad has worked 64-bit for a couple decades ;)
23:04.52brlcadif there's any problems, it's usually opengl-related (which can be compile-time disabled with no loss in functionality)
23:04.52animallyep, remember reading that, just didnt know if there might be any hangups because of the memory mapping difference on x86-64 between amd and intel chips
23:05.19animallnp on that, already modified the driver so it wont give me fits
23:05.22brlcadnah, x86-64 is one of the primary systems used
23:05.33animallgood
23:05.36brlcadonly problems that come to mind are some freebsd 6 threading bugs
23:05.41animallouch
23:06.07brlcadbut from everything I've seen debugging, it looks like a bug in freebsd land, not in brl-cad land
23:06.25animallI've still got to reread the docs, but I'm planning on seeing how well it likes dual core threading with em64t in a week or so
23:06.27brlcad(it's specific to amd64 freebsd)
23:06.35animallah
23:06.40animalllower memory mapping ability
23:06.44brlcadlinux should be fine
23:07.09animallcool
23:07.36brlcadand again, if it's not -- if you run into a problem, please do report it -- those are rather high priority issues
23:07.36animalli've got some blueprints i want to get setup before the paper decides to fall apart on me
23:08.03animallnp
23:08.33animalli just have to make sure i dont bring any of the proprietary stuff out of work into it
23:08.56brlcadthere's a nice "brief" intro available from a user here:  http://sourceforge.net/forum/forum.php?thread_id=1447646&forum_id=362509
23:09.05animallhttp://people.redhat.com/blizzard/monkeys.txt
23:09.07animalloops
23:09.15animallwrong option selected
23:09.27brlcadheh :)
23:11.10animalli was thinking of setting it up to handle some 3d data modelling for some of the test systems at work
23:11.35animallsort of an extra validation mechanism for code changes on development applications
23:13.14brlcadinteresting
23:13.28brlcadwhat area of focus is that?  machining?
23:13.42animallcircuit / chipset design
23:13.46brlcadah
23:13.50animallvalidation tools inputing data
23:14.17brlcadmm.. reminds me that I need to get back to work on the automatic knapsack packing library
23:14.23animalland using the input data for 3d modeling of any areas to visually identify potential problems
23:14.28brlcadfor optimal packing solutions
23:14.40animallsounds painful
23:14.51brlcadnot horribly
23:15.13brlcadthere was a great research paper that effectively solved the problem for regular shaped objects in a static space
23:15.45brlcadwith brl-cad, I believe that can be extended to arbitrary shapes fairly easily so you get nice tight packing
23:16.10brlcadfor things like machinging out of a piece of material, optimally placing components onto a circuit board, etc
23:16.21animallyeah, could be benificial, esp in distributed computing on large scale projects
23:17.21animalltime for me to hit the books again, got to review some perl for tomorrow
23:17.49animallthnx on the assistance :)
23:17.53brlcadno problem
23:18.03brlcadthanks for the interest
Jeff Waugh - find it at freshmeat.net! Modified by Tim Riker to work with blootbot logs, split per channel, etc. irclog2html for #brlcad on 20060508

irclog2html for #brlcad on 20060508

00:11.26pra5adsean
00:11.39pra5adwhats with wendy getting all agitated about g-var
00:12.05pra5adapparently it was part of a ttm
00:14.36``Erikahhhhhh
00:54.16animallstupid question, on make benchmark
00:54.41animallis the output needed for comparison with other systems?
00:58.46brlcadanimall: depends, but generally no
00:59.29animallok
00:59.55animallim taking the source into work tomorrow, ill run it on one of the machines in development
00:59.56brlcadanimall: the output is useful to see how stable the numbers are, how rapidly it converges, how many iterations it took
01:00.08brlcadbut the summary VGR count is what ultimately matters
01:00.22brlcadand that is both reported in the output and saved in text file named 'summary'
01:00.31animallk
01:00.44brlcadbe sure to run ./configure with --enable-optimized --disable-debug for best performance
01:00.44animallill see how much of a punch quad dual cores can hammer out
01:00.54animallrunning that now
01:01.13animallhehe, make the engineers freak out
01:01.35brlcadfwiw, 'make benchmark' is installed with brl-cad as a tool named 'benchmark'
01:02.16brlcadwhat sort of numbers are you getting now?
01:02.35animall1109.09    843.08  1170.35 933.45  856.26  4.29    819.42
01:02.57brlcadeek
01:02.57animallsingle core Celeron D in em64t with 800mhz fsb/ ich5 southbridge
01:03.02brlcadahh
01:03.27brlcadthat must be unoptimized i take it?
01:03.27animalland a vanilla FC5 2.6.16-1 kernel
01:03.31animallcorrect
01:03.59brlcadthe last number there, 819 was the VGR count
01:04.10animalli've still got to update the southbridge and northbridge microcode, DFI fragged up and shipped the wrong mircrocode out on this board
01:04.17animallk
01:04.22brlcadthat's a linear metric, so a machine with 800 and another with 1600 means the second is 2x performance
01:04.36animallk
01:05.06animallnot too bad for a board/cpu/ram that ran me like $300
01:05.34brlcadyou can get all sorts of interesting results tweaking compilation options, of course too -- default is usually just a handful of non-platform-limiting options geared towards gcc
01:05.36animallnext box is going to run around $6K
01:06.20brlcadyou can tack on CC and CFLAGS/CPPFLAGS/LDFLAGS to configure and it will carry then through as well
01:06.22animallgcc does have some quirks
01:06.27animallok
01:06.59animallI havent looked at the code yet, I might later on this summer after I finish some driver upgrades at work
01:07.35brlcadoptimized vs default will generally result in about a 2x increase (diff between -O0 and -O3 -ffast-math)
01:07.50animallok
01:08.10brlcadfor gcc at least
01:08.28brlcadicc and mipspro have their own interesting behaviors
01:08.32animalllesson learned on -O3 is that cross platform compiles turn into a blithering mess
01:08.38animallicc is a pain in the butt
01:08.50brlcadheh
01:08.50animalli have to work with it everyday
01:09.06brlcadi like icc's dual-pass optimization mode
01:09.26animallthat is good, esp if the system has the correct microcode
01:09.32brlcadgcc has one too, but not nearly as nice (at least not nearly as familiar)
01:10.11animalldual pass in gcc is a bit more of a cpu hog, and on a system with 600+ users for doing development, it has a tendancy to tick off people
01:10.49brlcad600+ users on a system, eeww
01:11.10brlcadhopefully a 512 processor altix or something
01:11.32brlcadsomething massive smp at least
01:12.14animallquad xeons with HT
01:12.26animallits due for an upgrade this year though
01:12.46brlcadthat's quite a load of users for a system that "small"
01:13.09animallyeah, but it holds the load, mainly for test scripts and compiling code changes
01:13.10brlcadare they not cpu intensive users?  I could eat that much up easily on a daily basis
01:13.15animallmajority of the load is vim
01:13.19brlcadheh
01:13.35animallmainly its  maybe 30 people killing the cpu
01:14.26brlcadso 'only' a load of about 50 all the time ;)
01:16.36CIA-9BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/TODO: geometry example of building 238 is pushed back
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01:21.49brlcadhello akin
01:22.12*** part/#brlcad akin (n=akin5040@85.103.26.204)
01:22.21brlcadgoodbye akin
01:27.03animall1403.47
01:27.17animallrun with optimized
01:27.33animallpretty much about it on the load
01:29.06animallrun 3 w/ --disable-debug
01:30.28brlcadthat's looking more reasonable
01:31.00brlcad--disable-debug doesn't really give you much except a slight hint of memory coherence
01:31.07brlcad--enable-optimized gives the bang
01:34.31animallfreed up some mem also, maybe that will help
01:35.17animallmodel name:                 Intel(R) Celeron(R) CPU 2.53GHz
01:35.54animallive got the same model with dual core waiting an ICH7 board with a i965 northbridge
01:39.49brlcadfree'ing up memory shouldn't be a big difference unless you actually needed to swap to exec
01:40.12brlcadthe models intentionally are not large to avoid memory paging timings
01:40.42brlcadwhat will be a factor is L1/L2 cache sizes and register efficiency
01:42.24pra5adheh bldg 238
01:42.44pra5adincluding the trap doors and croc pit?
01:42.56brlcadbut of course
02:20.16animall1569.93
02:20.32animall--enable-optimize --disable-debug
02:20.35animallnot bad
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03:32.40digitalfredybrlcad: ping
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18:34.10MaloeranQuestion for anyone familar with BRL-CAD and its raytracers, what is the use for VOXELs? Is raytracing support required for scenes that mix triangles and voxels?
20:24.40pierlogout
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20:31.09digitalfredybrlcad: ping
20:41.11brlcaddigitalfredy: pong
20:41.19digitalfredyhello
20:41.28digitalfredyi'm reading your mail
20:42.51brlcadMaloeran: i presume you mean the 'vol' volumetric primitive?
20:45.32brlcadThe vol primitive is a basic (mostly unoptimized) volume primitive that supports visualization of cell data like you might get from a CT or MRI scan.  implemented for medical visualization primarily, though it has other uses.
20:46.41brlcadnot sure what you mean by "is raytracing support required for scenes that mix triangles and voxels" .. BRL-CAD supports raytracing of arbitrary collections of primitives
20:46.46brlcadnecessarily has to
20:51.23MaloeranRight. The SOW for developing high-performance raytracing software for BRL-CAD requests support for VOXEL datasets, that was unexpected
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Jeff Waugh - find it at freshmeat.net! Modified by Tim Riker to work with blootbot logs, split per channel, etc. irclog2html for #brlcad on 20060509

irclog2html for #brlcad on 20060509

00:07.29TwingyI added the voxel stuff :}
00:07.55``Erikheh
00:08.22Twingybut I'm sure Lee will tell you he added it :)
00:09.48``Erikhahha
00:10.47Twingyforizzle
00:11.14``Erikhe doesn't seem to appreciate it when you call him on that shit in public forum... but he seems to swallow it and move on.
00:11.17``ErikO:-)
00:11.31Twingyask me if I care :)
00:11.45``ErikI already know your answer, bitch
00:11.59Twingygood, homofaggatus
00:12.09``Erik*I* intend to keep calling him on it, if people care to join, groovy
00:12.51``Erikcredit given where credit is due, I support the concept of a meritocracy, and I'm willing to make some people look like dumbasses to support it. :D
00:13.00``Erikif only I did anything worth merit *sigh*
00:13.32TwingyI've mentioned your name on contributing to those cluster build system stuff every muves meeting for the last month
00:13.46``Erikthnx
00:13.46Twingy"Erik Greenwald did this... Thanks to Erik we have this.   Erik just got blah working, etc."
00:14.09Twingylee hasn't brought your name up once iirc
00:14.11``ErikI'm sure other parties are attempting to claim that I am 100% commited to muves
00:14.20``Erikif I'm not there, he won't
00:14.23``Erikit's not his nature
00:15.16``ErikI vagually recall some meeting a few months ago where he said he did something and I corrected him, noting that you did it, and he had to agree, but he seemed... uncomfortable. :)
00:15.44``ErikI have a suspicion I'm gonna piss him off a lot over the next few months.
00:16.18TwingyI suspect everyone who's no passive and agreeable with him annoys him
00:16.26``ErikI don't mind correcting people in public O:-) dixie got a smackdown infront of the division, tyvm
00:17.57``Erikbut lee is generally open to correction and he generally wants to do 'the right thing', even if he wants to claim credit, so that makes him less odious than ... some other individuals.
00:18.27Twingyhe doesn't learn very quick then :)
00:18.35``Erikspeaking of "some other individuals", are you going to try to have a discussion to push that toughbook?
00:18.47Twingynope, not important
00:19.12``Erikhehehe, I think he's gotten away with enough that he has a bit of a god complex going, it'll take a good series of rapid smackdown to make an impression :)
00:19.24Twingygo for it :)
00:19.53``ErikI think your toughbook request IS important... not because of the piece of hardware, but because of the policy and the blind adherence to it
00:20.11Twingyfor somone that cares, sure
00:20.17``Erikyou got the letter, bitch, go nail it to the church door.
00:20.18``Erik:D
00:20.30TwingyI stopped caring :)
00:20.36``Erikbah
00:20.53TwingyI am collecting a pay check
00:21.13TwingyI can buy toys to get real work done on the weekend
00:21.34``Erikwell, true, I'm there on that, but if I were getting a hw order cockblocked because of general idiocity, I'd feel at least some responsibility to raise a nasty stink on it
00:22.18``Erikwhere oh where is that hot 25yo redhead nurse...
00:23.13``Erikif you want, tell me what else is on the order with that toughbook, and I'll swing by and raise a stink for you... heh
00:27.17Twingynot important
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03:00.09*** topic/#brlcad is http://brlcad.org/ || BRL-CAD is now Free Software! || Release 7.8.0 is Posted!
06:15.01MaloeranAh Justin :), so you need voxel support somewhere? I just wouldn't have expected that
10:21.05*** join/#brlcad dpy (n=marcel@k17242.upc-k.chello.nl)
10:21.12dpyhi
10:21.15dpyanyone around ?
10:39.24dpydoes anyone here know how to get this effect in opengl: http://www.cadcamnet.com/Online/03/nov/04nov-sw1hsSE_15.jpg
10:41.16archivistI would draw that in solidworks or solid edge
11:56.19dpyyes
11:56.26dpybut I want to render it in opengl
11:56.39dpythe whole point is... I save the model as xgl
11:56.46dpythen import it in my program
11:57.03dpybut then I want to render it again as solid edge does
12:49.56pra5adhah
12:50.05pra5adgooch shader from the orange book
12:50.13pra5adcept the cool color is red
12:50.18pra5adnothing special there
13:31.51dpypra5ad: where I can download example code that does this ?
13:34.55dpydo you know ?
14:07.58MaloeranWhat is troublesome specifically? Rendering the outlines?
14:10.40MaloeranYou could render the contours as a GL_LINE_LOOP, with a little tweak on glDepthRange or glPolygonOffset to prevent Z fighting issues while still getting mostly accurate Z buffering ( so you don't see lines rendered for culled surfaces )
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14:53.40dpyOkay, I'm now manually trying to detect edges
14:54.06dpyand I will create a 3d outline model for this
14:54.27dpybut what I was afraid off is happening, I can't seem to find faces belonging to edges
14:54.58dpyhttp://rafb.net/paste/results/0efP5u82.html
14:59.54MaloeranMmm, ruby. The "external" outline is simply defined as separating triangles facing towards or away from the eye
15:01.11dpyno I need all edges
15:01.19dpynot just the "outline" of the object
15:01.56dpye.g. when you look straight down at:   /\
15:02.13dpyneither will be facing away from the eye, but there still is an edge
15:02.32MaloeranRight, I'm just mentionning that this outline is different and dynamic as the eye moves.  For the rest... I suppose I would group triangles by connectivity and similar normals up to a breaking point
15:03.10dpyso what I'm doing right now is, I calculate all face normals, then flag all edges with 2 face normals that are angled > than some threshold
15:03.13MaloeranA good robust solution is going to be much more complex than what you have there
15:03.53dpycan't I just combine both ?
15:04.33dpycombine the view direction dependend outline (the one you suggest above)  with the detected edges
15:04.33MaloeranIt depends what you want. Do you want any contour to pop up if you have a sphere for example?
15:04.50dpydepends on the threshold
15:04.56MaloeranOf course, I'm just saying that the "external" outline is to be computed at run-time, the surface contours can be precalculated
15:05.14dpyanyway
15:05.28dpycurrently I can't even find two faces belonging to the same edge
15:05.29dpygrrr
15:05.57MaloeranYou'll need to build yourself some table for this, first of all
15:07.26dpyI'm doign so, didn't you see the pastebin ?
15:07.50MaloeranOnly briefly
15:07.51dpyI take the sum of the two vertices belonging to the edge as a key into a hashtable
15:08.03dpybecause summation is commutative
15:09.02MaloeranThat doesn't sound right. 1+5 = 2+4, you want to find another triangle that has the same vertex indices but in the opposite order
15:10.02MaloeranThe "external" outline calculation is a common need for stencil shadows, if you want to get some reading material on the first part
15:10.41dpystencilling is extremely slow on my ATI 7500
15:16.57MaloeranI'm just saying the connectivity and silhouette determination problems are the same, if you are looking for some guide on that part
15:17.24MaloeranAfter that, you can worry about precalculating surface contours
15:19.50dpyoh okay, so you are suggesting I'm going the wrong way around ?
15:20.57MaloeranFirst of all, you certainly need to gather connectivity information, and what you presently have won't work :)
15:24.39dpyyou mean, I need a better way to turn two vertices into a key
15:26.27MaloeranCorrect. If you got the pair 2,4 for example, you need to find the pair 4,2 to get the connected triangle and not just some pair with a sum of 6
15:26.53dpyMaloeran: it depends
15:27.04dpyif they are floats you will not have that many collisions
15:27.20dpybut I already started a new class: MatchKey
15:27.21MaloeranFloats? We are talking about vertex indices, right?
15:27.52dpyyes, now we are
15:28.41MaloeranRight, the same indices that would be used by glDrawElements() for rendering
15:29.49dpyhttp://rafb.net/paste/results/sthQy870.html
15:31.26MaloeranGenerally, indices will be in the reverse order. You can still build a single key for fast lookup by the way
15:31.47MaloeranSuch as A*IndiceCount+B where A or B is always the lowest indice of the two
15:59.20MaloeranAny better success?
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16:19.30dpyMaloeran: no, I don't get any matches
16:53.46dpyI got ittttttttttttttt
16:53.48dpy!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
16:54.27dpyyou gotta see this (step 1)
16:55.53dpyhttp://www.dwarfhouse.org/mtoele/edge_image.png
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17:01.52MaloeranNice dpy :)
17:02.22dpyif I adjust the threshold, it also puts strokes on curvatures
17:02.52MaloeranAre you just looking for sharp edges, or building surfaces up to a certain treshold for the whole surface?
17:03.13dpyno I need two more things:  1: the outline using your pointers,  2:  combine this with the shaded model and avoid Z buffer errors
17:03.48MaloeranAh, right
17:03.49dpyMaloeran: ultimately I want that yes, but for now I'll settle with edges only
17:04.34dpybut I know what you mean, a sloped surface that stays under the threshold all the time should also have a stroke somewhere I think
17:04.57dpybut now it's food time
17:05.02MaloeranYes, it does in the curvy door picture you pasted a while ago
17:05.36dpyup to now, it was pretty much doable
17:05.48dpyand I wasted again too much time looking for source code to spoonfeed me
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19:53.40brlcad/db/ goto -50
19:56.28brlcaddpy: if you have brl-cad geometry, there is an edge raytracer for that sort of shaded edge rendering
19:56.51brlcadan example is in the screenshots section even iirc.. ah yes: http://sourceforge.net/project/screenshots.php?group_id=105292&ssid=4470
20:09.08MaloeranRaytracing edges, curious
20:12.09brlcadyep, pretty nifty
20:12.11brlcadhttp://brlcad.org/images/havoc_rtedge.png
20:13.31brlcadutilizes identification of unique regions, local neighbor information, and curvature to determine whether the current pixel is an edge or not
20:14.01MaloeranI was just typing a long question, which included how I was guessing it was done :)
20:14.30MaloeranSo it precalculates edges for specific groups and determine if the ray lies on an edge during raytracing
20:14.43Maloeranwithin the border thickness anyhow
20:14.49brlcadnot really
20:15.03MaloeranOkay, so I didn't get it
20:15.35brlcadit uses the hit point details of the neighbors, they come back during the raytrace as reporting that you hit a given region/object
20:15.52MaloeranAh I see
20:15.59brlcadif you go from one object to another object on two neighboring pixels, there's an edge there
20:16.28brlcador if the distance along the ray is significantly different, you've got an edge
20:16.39MaloeranSimple enough
20:16.45brlcador if the curvature between two neighboring pixels is significantly different, you've got an edge
20:16.59brlcadyeah, not really a complex idea, works pretty well
20:17.04Maloeran*nods* Thanks
20:17.33MaloeranCompletely unrelated, I don't suppose Lee hangs around here?
20:18.00brlcadhe shows up once or twice a month sometimes, never hangs around for very long
20:18.37MaloeranOkay. I was wondering a couple things about the SOW for raytracing software but it can wait
20:19.02brlcadwouldn't be a good idea to discuss that here regardless
20:20.21brlcadthis channel and/or irc in general is not really appropriate for topics that concern ARL business directly
20:20.50brlcads/business/business, people, places, tasks, etc/
20:21.03brlcadgrr, ibot_
20:21.14Maloeran:) Understood
20:23.34brlcadwoot, fixed
20:23.43brlcads/fixed/should be fixed/
20:23.46brlcadexcellent
20:25.13pierhi everybody
20:25.19animallgreetings
20:25.47pierI got last 7.8.0 version on my pc
20:26.29pierbut there must be something wrong with former ones that don't want to work any more
20:26.48pierI get thi error
20:27.02pier/usr/brlcad_7.6.4/stable/bin/mged: symbol lookup error: /usr/brlcad_7.6.4/stable/bin/mged: undefined symbol: bu_argv0
20:27.03dpybrlcad: looks cool, although for now I'm satisfied with my own results
20:27.26dpyalso, I'm too stupid to work effectively with brlcad, I use solid edge for making parts and assemblies
20:30.38brlcadhowdy pier
20:31.20brlcaddpy: understood, just thought you might like to know that it was there just in case ;)
20:31.57brlcadpier: odd error.. do you have LD_LIBRARY_PATH or BRLCAD_ROOT set?
20:32.47piermmm
20:32.56pierlet's see
20:33.12pierI noticed I got this error too
20:33.25brlcadand why is it running /usr/brlcad_7.6.4 if you have 7.8.0 installed?
20:34.01pierdifficult question :)
20:34.41MaloeranA mismatch of versions between binaries and libraries may have such interesting results
20:34.44pierwhen I rename brlcad dir to i.e. brlcad_7.8.0
20:34.53brlcadeep, don't do that
20:35.11brlcada renamed install directory is considered a relocation
20:35.15pierI wanted to preserve all the old versions
20:35.24brlcadbrl-cad has compiled-in data-search paths
20:35.32pierok
20:35.48brlcadyou can override them at run-time with BRLCAD_ROOT, but you shouldn't relocate if you don't have to
20:35.55brlcaddid you compile yourself, or downloaded binary?
20:35.56pierok
20:36.16pierI happened to download binary
20:36.18brlcadyou should NOT have BRLCAD_ROOT (or LD_LIB..) set if you did not relocate
20:36.47brlcaddepending on the platform, for newer versions at least, they will all happily coexist in /usr/brlcad
20:37.07brlcadthere should be a /usr/brlcad/stable symbolic link that points to the last installed
20:37.28brlcadwith each new version installed as /usr/brlcad/rel-7.8.0 for example
20:38.02brlcadso you only add /usr/brlcad/bin to your path to always use the latest mged for example, or run /usr/brlcad/rel-7.6.4/bin/mged to get that specific version
20:38.26pierok thanks very much
20:38.53brlcadi don't think the mergeable installs were done fro 7.6.4 though.. don't remember
20:38.59brlcadmaybe
20:39.22brlcadhave to see what's in /usr/brlcad_7.6.4 (which I presume WAS /usr/brlcad and you renamed it?)
20:39.52pieryes
20:40.02brlcadif there's no symbolic link, then you can leave it as /usr/brlcad_7.6.4 and set BRLCAD_ROOT to that when you want to use it
20:40.49piercan't I just cd to /usr/brlcad_7.6.4/bin and run mged?
20:41.13pierno as a matter of fact
20:41.18brlcadnope
20:41.29brlcadmged needs to locate several resources in order to start up
20:41.48pieryes
20:41.50brlcadit has no idea how to search for them since you effectively "moved" it
20:42.01brlcadit'll dump out with a gui or other tcl error
20:42.15brlcadsetting BRLCAD_ROOT will make it work
20:42.22brlcadand/or BRLCAD_DATA
20:42.31brlcadalbeit to a different path
20:42.41pierok
20:43.03pierat least now I know how to deal with it
20:48.37brlcadthere is actually code written that will let mged 'discover' that it was relocated and utilize a relative search ordering priority to try to find if it's resources were also relocated
20:48.52brlcadthe code is just not activated.. needs to be tested more before being made active
20:49.37brlcadhardly any program that loads resources dynamically find them automatically, involved a nice hack based on where the binary lives on the filesystem
20:52.26pierok but with a link it works fine
20:54.21pierI'll move to 7.8.0 and hopefully finish my new router (got a bit busy with an exam lately)
20:55.56pierdo you think that compiling from the source the code would be better optimized? I mean is it worthwhile compiling now that I see that new version works?
20:58.31brlcadshouldn't gain you a whole lot really
20:58.35brlcadbut you certainly could
20:59.04brlcadyou could add your own platform-specific optimizations to squeeze another 10% or so performance out
20:59.35brlcaddefault distributed binaries are high optimization, but not platform-limited
21:03.23pieris  there a way to get mget pointing to a project dir at startup?
21:06.31dpyhttp://www.dwarfhouse.org/mtoele/c_bracketed_servo.png
21:09.07brlcadpier: what do you mean?
21:09.46pierthe startup windows alwais point to the actual dir
21:09.47brlcadpier: mged will process a .mgedrc in your home dir on startup, you can add just about any tcl scripting in there
21:09.54pierazz
21:09.58piersorry
21:10.28brlcaddpy: nifty, though wierd tolerancing issues
21:10.43dpywhat ?
21:10.48dpyyou mean the Z buffer fighting?
21:11.20dpyself.scale = 1.008; #TODO: more robust way of doing this
21:11.32dpyI have to find a good way of doing this
21:11.43dpyI haven't been able to find the "offset" documentation yet
21:16.29brlcadyep
21:19.18pierbuona notte atutti!
21:19.33brlcadheh :)
21:19.57*** part/#brlcad pier (n=pier@151.56.236.140)
21:27.47dpynotte ?  isn't it noche or something ?
21:29.22brlcad~translate en it good night to you
21:29.37brlcad~translate en es good night to you
21:30.08brlcadtutti is just the familiar tense
21:31.18dpyah ok
21:31.44dpyno he said: good night to all
21:31.46dpya tutti
21:32.19dpyone day I'll learn to speak italian
21:32.27dpyit just has to wait until I have more time :)
21:33.15brlcad~translate it en a tutti
21:34.02dpy~translate it en tutti fruti
21:34.03brlcadhmm
21:34.10dpy~translate it en tutti frutti
21:35.09dpy~translate it en prego parlare inglese
21:35.19dpylol
21:35.22dpythat's wrong
21:35.36dpy"please speak english"
21:35.46dpy~translate en it please speak english
21:36.44brlcadliterally, i believe it was right
21:37.02brlcadplease is most translations is a form of begging/praying
21:37.13brlcadprego is first person
21:37.34brlcadin that order at least, not imperative
21:37.54brlcadfunny either way ;)
21:39.41dpyyes
21:39.52dpybut that's where computers always go wrong
21:39.57dpythe interpretation
21:40.10dpycomputers can't interprete
21:40.42dpyI've researched it a bit   now I understand what information means, and data  and that it is not the same
21:40.49dpycomputers transform data, not information
21:40.56``Erikimpregnate what? huh?
21:41.05dpylol
21:41.06dpypreggo
21:52.42MaloeranSo it doesn't do french or it doesn't like me :)
21:52.45pra5adsi non oscillas, noli tintinnares
21:55.33pra5adblame hugh hefner
21:58.12brlcadMaloeran: you have to tell it the languages to and from
21:58.20brlcad~translate fr en s'il vous pla?t
21:58.44brlcadpasting that char didn't go so well here
22:00.45MaloeranNot much better. Anyhow, it's the closest french translation for "please"
22:00.51brlcad~translate en fr please
22:01.00brlcadheh
22:01.14brlcadcheater
22:01.58MaloeranAhah
22:16.40dpy~translate fr en s'il vous plait
22:17.22dpyI guess it doesn't like circonflex or the encoding is off
22:38.32brlcadi believe it just passes it on to babelfish, so whatever babelfish wants though there is undoubtedly a few encoding conversions possible along the way
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Jeff Waugh - find it at freshmeat.net! Modified by Tim Riker to work with blootbot logs, split per channel, etc. irclog2html for #brlcad on 20060510

irclog2html for #brlcad on 20060510

05:25.51*** join/#brlcad digitalfredy (n=digitalf@200.119.94.45)
06:24.39digitalfredyibot: hello bot
06:25.14digitalfredyhey ibot is a bot?
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15:16.41dpyhi guys
15:46.08brlcadhowdy
15:49.00dpyhey hoo
15:49.04dpyI'm fine
15:49.05dpyyou ?
15:57.48*** join/#brlcad pier (n=pier@151.56.202.117)
16:35.37*** join/#brlcad rogier (n=rogier@16-65-dsl.ipact.nl)
16:59.47brlcadpretty good
16:59.56brlcadbusy as ever, but good
17:09.08pierhi brlcad
17:09.42pieris advisable to have direct rendering enabled?
17:48.15*** join/#brlcad pier (n=pier@151.56.194.137)
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Jeff Waugh - find it at freshmeat.net! Modified by Tim Riker to work with blootbot logs, split per channel, etc. irclog2html for #brlcad on 20060511

irclog2html for #brlcad on 20060511

03:31.47*** join/#brlcad digitalfredy (n=digitalf@200.119.94.166)
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14:51.07brlcadpier: direct rendering shouldn't help or hurt, bugs notwithstanding
14:55.09pier:) thanks
15:03.23brlcadthere's not an expectation that it will be fixed before this weekend
15:03.38digitalfredybrlcad: hello
15:03.45brlcadhola
15:04.32digitalfredybrlcad: need the names of the autor of overview document
15:05.00digitalfredyand needs they affiliations
15:05.25brlcadthat one is more 'open' to debate, it's been rewritten and modified by many
15:05.31brlcadno single author
15:05.57digitalfredyis for put in the docuemt
15:05.58brlcaddigitalfredy: use the same names as volume II for starters
15:06.15digitalfredybrlcad: ok
15:06.19brlcadactually, just put Eric for starters
15:06.31brlcadhe wrote the majority
15:07.29digitalfredylike see the header made at this moment?
15:08.24brlcadhuh?
15:08.53digitalfredyhow can send you a file in irc?
15:09.42brlcadmm, can /ctcp it or ftp it to ftp.brlcad.org/incoming
15:10.37digitalfredy<PROTECTED>
15:11.14digitalfredybrlcad: open a priv
15:12.29digitalfredyi now send files in irc usin the GUI (drag and drop)
15:13.44brlcadopen a priv?  you initiate a send, and I will get a notification and can accept the receive
15:15.48brlcadhttp://www.irchelp.org/irchelp/ircprimer.html#DCC
15:16.02brlcad<PROTECTED>
15:16.16brlcader
15:16.19brlcad<PROTECTED>
15:18.15digitalfredybrlcad: say not valid command
15:18.34digitalfredybrlcad: weit
15:19.04brlcadpuedes mandarlo por ftp o mandamelo por e-mail
15:19.58digitalfredybrlcad: sen me /msg any
15:22.23brlcadlo hice
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15:24.39digitalfredybrlcad: no te llego el ofrecimiento del archivo?
15:25.21brlcadnope
15:25.34brlcad"DCC no file offered by digitalfredy"
15:25.42digitalfredybrlcad: usemos ftp
15:26.28brlcadahh.. if you're behind a router, DCC won't work for you
15:26.43brlcadreverse connection has to work on your IP
15:27.03digitalfredynot router
15:27.12digitalfredyi go direct to my ips
15:27.21brlcadyou're on dsl.. there's some router there :)
15:27.25digitalfredyno
15:27.29brlcader, not you..
15:27.38brlcadthat was rogier, just reading the wrong lines :)
15:27.47digitalfredyi have a single 64k rdsi
15:27.47brlcadmaybe a firewall
15:27.59digitalfredyrdsi in englis is ..
15:28.32digitalfredyisdn
15:28.44digitalfredyred digital de servicios integrados
15:28.47brlcad~ping 200.119.94.248
15:28.49ibotpong 200.119.94.248
15:29.00brlcaddunno then.. maybe your irc client
15:30.02digitalfredycan to be a problem in my client (gaim) instaling xchat
15:30.19brlcadjust sent you a request
15:30.37digitalfredyyes
15:31.09brlcadthat worked
15:31.42digitalfredyisntaling xchat 23%
15:31.52brlcadheh
15:33.06digitalfredy75%
15:36.07*** join/#brlcad digitalfredy_ (n=digitalf@200.119.94.248)
15:38.59digitalfredy_brlcad, you recibe the request?
15:40.21digitalfredy_brlcad, ping
15:43.12``Erikhehe, sean, http://qdb.us/59744 :)
15:44.57*** part/#brlcad digitalfredy (n=digitalf@200.119.94.248)
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16:09.11digitalfredy_brlcad, ping
16:26.40brlcadpong
16:26.49brlcaddigitalfredy_: never recibe the request
16:42.34digitalfredy_brlcad, recibe the request
16:42.56*** join/#brlcad pier (n=pier@151.56.213.160)
16:44.34brlcadtodavia, no (adonde?)
16:44.57digitalfredy_brlcad,
16:45.58digitalfredy_digitalfredy_: never recibe the request
16:45.58digitalfredy_--- Ofrece overview.html a brlcad
16:45.58digitalfredy_<digitalfredy_> brlcad, recibe the request
16:45.58digitalfredy_--> pier (n=pier@151.56.213.160) ha entrado en #brlcad
16:45.58digitalfredy_<brlcad> todavia, no (adonde?)
16:45.59digitalfredy_<digitalfredy_> brlcad,
16:46.01digitalfredy_--- Ofrece overview.html a brlcad
16:47.19brlcadyep, never get the request here, which means it's being filtered somewhere .. it's a known problem for people behind NAT and/or firewalls, not sure what the problem is in this case since you say you're not
16:50.19digitalfredy_brlcad, what is the begin year for the copyrigth in the doc?
16:50.59brlcadyou're creating a substantial derivative work by translating to docbook, so this year
16:51.44brlcadbefore going open source, the documents actually hold no copyright claim
16:54.37digitalfredy_but if the documet is gpl yes have copyright
16:55.17digitalfredy_when are much pepole you see
16:55.32brlcadright
16:55.39digitalfredy_(c) year principal autor and others
16:55.50brlcadthat's what i mean about you creating a derivative work
16:56.02brlcadwe do something similar for the source code
16:56.49brlcadthe entire package presently has implicit copyright assignment to "U.S. Goverment" for direct contributions
16:57.13brlcadyou could use that, or retain copyright of your own (since you're creating the derivative work)
16:57.34brlcadthe 'original' authors cannot claim copyright at this point, they can only claim authorship
16:57.59brlcadas they were all u.s. government funded, public domain work
16:58.08digitalfredy_put (c) U.S. Goverment and others ?
16:58.23digitalfredy_haaa public domain is other history
16:59.14digitalfredy_when y get the doc this is in public domain?
16:59.34digitalfredy_if yes i can put a legal notice
17:01.28brlcadwe can talk more about it in a little bit, I have to run out for a little while
17:01.33brlcadbe back in an hour or so
17:01.57digitalfredy_brlcad, ok
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21:07.08digitalfredybrlcad, ping
21:08.17brlcadpong
21:08.38digitalfredyhello
21:09.29digitalfredyi think to is best speak in spanis about the copyrigt in the documets
21:09.55digitalfredyis for can understand well
21:11.12digitalfredybrlcad, fine?
21:12.31brlcadno estoy seguro que lo puedo escribir tan bueno en espanol, pero lo tratare
21:12.46digitalfredybueno
21:13.26digitalfredyme dices que los documentos tienen doble licencia
21:15.34digitalfredycuales son las dos licencias?
21:16.31digitalfredybrlcad, can understand well?
21:19.38digitalfredybrlcad, ping
21:21.06brlcadGFDL o GPL
21:21.18digitalfredyok
21:21.36brlcady si, los dos necesitan copyright (como se dice copyright?)
21:21.37digitalfredygfdl whitout ivarian sections
21:21.46digitalfredyasi
21:21.51brlcadheh
21:21.52brlcadok
21:22.30digitalfredybefor the doc arent free
21:22.49digitalfredybut in the moment of chache always are questions
21:23.24digitalfredyyo sugiero esto
21:23.47digitalfredyen cada documeto colocamos el copyright asi:
21:25.08digitalfredy(c) year_of_firt_publication - year_of_change_to_opensource Army Research Laboratory
21:26.20brlcaddepende en el documento
21:26.37digitalfredyexplicame
21:27.15brlcadpodemos hacerlo asi con el source code
21:27.39brlcadcopyright was obtained on the entire body, and assigned to the government
21:28.01brlcadpero con los documentos, es un poco m?s complicado
21:30.27digitalfredy?
21:30.28brlcadcon los documentos, solo puedes obtener el copyright si hagas una modificaccion significante
21:31.05brlcadyo pienso que una conversion a docbook cualifica
21:31.20brlcadheh, damn italian slipping in
21:31.44digitalfredywhat?
21:33.29brlcadlos volumes I II III IV, etc como estan publicados son public domain (no tienen copyright)
21:34.01brlcadtu puedes venderlos asi mismo si quierias, o cambiarlos como te da la gana
21:34.33brlcadsi hagas una modificaccion grande, tu puedes obtener un copyright a tu version
21:35.03brlcadcon ese copyright, lo puedes hacer un "copyright assignment" a quien quieres
21:35.17brlcadpor ejemplo, al U.S. Government
21:36.02brlcadel COPYING archivo en BRL-CAD manda que si lo vas a dar un cambio al proyecto que hagas el copyright assignment
21:36.48brlcadcon el copyright, se puede usar el GPL/GFDL/Creative Commons, etc
21:38.03digitalfredybueno ya tengo claro lo del copyright
21:38.55digitalfredyyo respeto mucho las obras de los otros
21:39.02brlcadtambien podemos mantener los documentos en el public domain
21:39.28digitalfredybrlcad, si ya tengo eso claro como el agua
21:39.31brlcadpara mi, lo importante es que tenemos una version en docbook :)
21:40.23brlcadsi, por supuesto
21:40.30digitalfredyen los vol III y IV estan escritos
21:40.36brlcadtambien tu contribuccion a convertirlo a docbook
21:40.41digitalfredyok
21:40.57digitalfredyy dice las empresas y cargos
21:41.29brlcadlos autores no cambian.. ser autor o no no significa copyright (porque empezo sin copyright)
21:41.40digitalfredysi
21:42.52digitalfredytienes el .doc del overview con los nombres de los autores?
21:42.57brlcadi like to give credit to any contribution whenever possible for the work that is provided, and preserve that contribution
21:43.10brlcadquiza..
21:43.13brlcadi'll look
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Jeff Waugh - find it at freshmeat.net! Modified by Tim Riker to work with blootbot logs, split per channel, etc. irclog2html for #brlcad on 20060512

irclog2html for #brlcad on 20060512

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16:48.00CIA-9BRL-CAD: 03twingy * 10brlcad/src/mged/ged.c: /dev/null should be in quotes, compiling with --disable-debug.
16:56.39``Erikooh, rsync of cvs repo's on sf, I likey
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Jeff Waugh - find it at freshmeat.net! Modified by Tim Riker to work with blootbot logs, split per channel, etc. irclog2html for #brlcad on 20060513

irclog2html for #brlcad on 20060513

00:12.44Twingymoderate drop in stocks today
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01:58.38Twingyall state is a rip off
01:58.42Twingythey want $70/mo more than geico for the same thing
02:02.56brlcadall hail the gecko
02:03.20brlcad(i.e. throw the lizard as far as possible)
02:03.38Twingyyou fix those bugs yet? :)
02:17.56brlcadwhat bugs?  the librt thing?
02:18.57brlcadthat's been in there since I first compiled on freebsd amd64 iirc, looked entirely like a bug in gcc's optimizer or the threading library
02:19.10Twingyhrm
02:19.33brlcadif you walk through it in gdb, the stack just goes "poof" mid computation (if you can keep gdb from crashing itself)
02:19.47brlcadi never got to try a different threading library
02:20.47brlcadthere was a thread on the freebsd bugs mailing list about a threading bug related to amd64 and crashes inside system libraries (which is where the stack was going poof, sprintf and similar funcs)
02:21.40brlcadthis was like 8-12 months ago when first got access to such a configuration iirc
02:23.24brlcadgdb was almost useless, the only next step I can think of outside of trying different threading library would be to valgrind a simple raytrace and make sure the errors are cleaned up (which has never been done)
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08:51.32sehhhey people
08:51.54sehhis brlcad SMP-aware (multi-threaded, etc)?
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09:10.50brlcadmeh
09:10.53brlcad'yes'
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Jeff Waugh - find it at freshmeat.net! Modified by Tim Riker to work with blootbot logs, split per channel, etc. irclog2html for #brlcad on 20060514

irclog2html for #brlcad on 20060514

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Jeff Waugh - find it at freshmeat.net! Modified by Tim Riker to work with blootbot logs, split per channel, etc. irclog2html for #brlcad on 20060515

irclog2html for #brlcad on 20060515

00:47.00*** join/#brlcad DTRemenak (n=DTRemena@c-24-23-59-104.hsd1.ca.comcast.net)
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15:51.31Servo888Such a channel does exist...
15:57.31brlcadheh
15:58.33brlcadnot only does it exist, it's the primary or at least preferred dev forum
15:58.42Servo888yah - I didn't know there were any 'developed' 3d cad programs for linux...
15:58.55Servo888I'm building it now to see what this is all about
16:01.04brlcadyeah, brl-cad is the only solid modeling system in production-use available as open source
16:02.43brlcadthere are modelers, some decent renderers, but no cad systems that aren't in their infancy or are academic pet projects, etc
16:31.28brlcad~spell tessellation
16:33.21CIA-9BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/NEWS: s/tesselation/tessellation/ typo. add emphasis to the extent of John's dxf importer enhancements
16:35.05Servo888Have a quick question... I just finished building brlcad, but can't find the executable... It should be /usr/brlcad/x86_64 - but it's empty.
16:35.39brlcadwhat steps did you take?
16:35.56Servo888I grabbed a tar ball from sourceforge...
16:35.59Servo888the ran ./configure
16:36.02``Erikdagnabbit, stupid car
16:36.03Servo888and make / make install
16:36.13brlcadthere's also not a single exec, there are hundreds.. :)
16:36.15Servo888You know - I didn't use --prefix= though
16:36.27Servo888Well the bin directory is full of them.
16:36.29brlcadif you didn't use prefix, it should be just /usr/brlcad
16:36.45brlcadwhat's in /usr/brlcad?
16:36.45Servo888yah it's there
16:36.52Servo888bin  include  lib  man  share
16:36.56brlcadah
16:37.03brlcadls -la /usr/brlcad/bin
16:37.27brlcadshould see lots of apps
16:37.33Servo888yah lots
16:37.34brlcad406 or so
16:37.45brlcadadd /usr/brlcad/bin to your path
16:37.59brlcadif you want a good place to start, most start with the GUI modeler
16:38.10brlcadit's called 'mged'
16:38.27Servo888yah gui modeler is fine - but mged is not there.
16:38.45brlcadls -al /usr/brlcad/bin/mged ?
16:39.08Servo888hmm wait it's there
16:39.15Servo888one sec
16:39.19brlcadhave to add /usr/brlcad/bin to your path :)
16:39.29brlcadexport PATH=/usr/brlcad/bin:$PATH   if you use bash
16:39.33Servo888ok
16:39.49``Erikany old posix style shell, actually... bsh, ash, ksh, pdksh, ...
16:39.50Servo888Ok there we go
16:40.05brlcadmged is not designed to be discoverable so you know, it requires training
16:40.16``Eriksean, fix libbu on amd64/fbsd.
16:40.19brlcadthere is pretty extensive documentation on the website: http://brlcad.org
16:40.34Servo888Yah I found that - I'll go through it.
16:40.35brlcad``Erik: what part?
16:40.36``Erikbitv is all whacked out
16:40.53``Erikrt havoc and it seg's, optimized or not
16:41.20``Erik(I think it's bitv, it thrashes the stack a little)
16:42.32brlcadI debugged stack stomping on amd64/fbsd a year ago and all fingers pointed at a thread library bug
16:42.43brlcadthere was a fbsd bug trail about it too
16:42.55``Erikhrm, yeah, uhm, kse? or thr?
16:43.04brlcadthr iirc
16:43.14``Erikdid you try kse?
16:43.18brlcadnope
16:43.26``Erikat the office?
16:43.28``Erik<-- is rdo today
16:43.45brlcadin fact, I think the build will default to -pthread still too
16:43.58brlcadthough it can be trivially overridden
16:44.11``Erikmeh, -pthread is old, died during the 5 run iirc
16:44.14``Erikmebbe at 50
16:44.43brlcadmy 5.2 still needs it
16:44.58``Erikfbsd can do runtime lib remapping, check out /etc/libmap.conf and man libmap.conf
16:45.14``Erikok, mebbe it was 53 or 54 *shrug* I don't recall :) I've been 6 and 7 for a while now
16:45.40brlcadi was actually hoping the problem would just go away with a upgrade to 6, which i think Twingy did
16:46.12``Erik6.0 stable is what I'm seeing it on (and I did that to that machine), I intend to upgrade 'em all to 61 very soon
16:46.12``Eriklike this week
16:46.20``ErikI have a couple already on 6.1
16:46.21brlcadregardless, -pthread still just picks up thr on the newer systems iirc, no?
16:46.54``Erikum, it picks up pthread, which is mapped... mebbe thr, mebbe kse, mebbe old userland crap, I d'no
16:47.10brlcadby default, I think it's thr
16:47.44brlcadyeah, set to libthr
16:48.03``Erikanywho, THAT machine seg's on the bitv stuff, which makes the meat&potatoes crap we do not work on the other machine, which means we can't be pushing the diskless cluster approach at this moment
16:48.30``Erikand I want the donut eaters using the cluster, darnit :D
16:49.40``Erikmebbe I'll explore that tomorrow :-/
16:49.41brlcadit very well could be that there is some obscure bug being provoked, but it did look entirely threading related last time I tried debugging it
16:49.52brlcadand gdb was being a bitch
16:50.00brlcadcrashed a lot
16:50.23``Erikare you gonna be in office tomorrow?
16:51.31``Erikor available via irc? I might have some stupid "how do I run rt like X" questions :D
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17:09.22brlcadi'm always on irc :P
17:10.35brlcad``Erik: a first easy test is to compile the entire package with parallelism disabled, set -UPARALLEL or edit include/machine.h
17:10.52brlcadto see if it's even threading provoked
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17:56.44ar3a51Hi
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18:00.27ar3a51sbd here?
18:19.03brlcadheh
18:19.41CIA-9BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/libbu/color.c: duplicate defines for RED/GRN/BLU
18:22.23brlcadibot: onjoin ar3a51 ar3a51: you have to wait more than a minute if you expect/want anyone to answer you..
18:22.23ibotbrlcad: ok
18:43.20CIA-9BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/configure.ac: typo, should have been profile not debug -- logic is still wrong though, needs to be redone for --enable-profile
18:53.09pierbrlcad: Phew! Capther 3 done.. Don't call me lazy :) as I've been very busy lately. Deserve a good supper now.
18:53.56brlcadpier: hehehe
18:54.01brlcadI'd do no such thing!
18:54.16brlcadthat's a major effort, I'll be making lots of noise about it :)
19:01.52``Erikgiven that it's a volunteer effort, anything at all you do is well above and beyond the normal mere mortal. :)
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19:54.30pierCiao a tutti... nite!
20:03.01CIA-9BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/mged/cmd.c: jim monte noticed that using a vls here was unnecessary for the Tcl_LinkVar'ing of glob_compat_mode and output_as_return
20:19.49CIA-9BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/ (5 files in 2 dirs): ugh, removed horrible usage of vls strings for things that can just be string constants. also takes care of a memory leak as the vls was never released. thanks to jim monte for noticing the problem.
22:55.05``Erik"we're doing a gig tonight to benefit the victems of last nights gig"
23:18.13pra5admmm fat refund from uncle sam
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Jeff Waugh - find it at freshmeat.net! Modified by Tim Riker to work with blootbot logs, split per channel, etc. irclog2html for #brlcad on 20060516

irclog2html for #brlcad on 20060516

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Jeff Waugh - find it at freshmeat.net! Modified by Tim Riker to work with blootbot logs, split per channel, etc. irclog2html for #brlcad on 20060517

irclog2html for #brlcad on 20060517

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19:03.53learnermmm
19:23.00``Eriko.O
Jeff Waugh - find it at freshmeat.net! Modified by Tim Riker to work with blootbot logs, split per channel, etc. irclog2html for #brlcad on 20060518

irclog2html for #brlcad on 20060518

01:07.38*** join/#brlcad ibot (i=ibot@rikers.org)
01:07.38*** topic/#brlcad is http://brlcad.org/ || BRL-CAD is now Free Software! || Release 7.8.0 is Posted!
02:36.34*** join/#brlcad PackElend (i=keefejoh@seraph.techwareit.com)
02:36.50PackElendis any ACAD expert there?
02:43.04PackElend?
03:02.39PackElendanybody there?
12:29.23``Erik<PROTECTED>
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12:45.50archivistfancy someone looking for an etch-a-sketch expert in here
13:33.25learnerheh
13:33.50learnerarchivist: depending on who that was, ACAD != AutoCAD
13:34.15learnerbut yeah, either way :)
13:45.26archivistI was thinking AutoCAD !
14:16.31learnerby far more popular, unless you work for GM or defense .. then it depends
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18:44.14brlcadwoot, BRL-CAD Birds of a Feather at Siggraph is finalized
18:45.14archivistbut the other side of the pond for me
18:46.53brlcadjust a short jump and you're there
18:47.32archivist3000 miles +
18:48.24brlcadteensie hop
18:49.53archivistcame accross for the Dayton hamfest many years ago
18:51.36brlcadheh, you'll fly over for ham.. but not a world-class conference and a CAD get together :)
18:54.31archivistI had the money then :(
19:20.23brlcadand ham apparently
19:26.24archivistham=radio amateur , not currently licensed
19:27.40brlcad:)
19:28.05brlcadi would have
19:28.37archivistfood doesnt excite me much
19:29.02archivista grilled chees in a wendys will do me
19:31.03archivistor a dunkin donut (except for the fat policeman that dumps his polished 45 on the table)
19:34.24brlcadhmm.. i don't think wendy's serves grilled cheese here..
19:36.14archivistbah wont come then
19:36.25brlcadhehe
19:37.22archivistwould love to though and to go to the second hand test gear shops in silicon valley
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20:42.00IriX64REGISTER passpass
20:57.59brlcadheh
20:58.05brlcadsilly torontonians
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Jeff Waugh - find it at freshmeat.net! Modified by Tim Riker to work with blootbot logs, split per channel, etc. irclog2html for #brlcad on 20060519

irclog2html for #brlcad on 20060519

02:01.23*** join/#brlcad IriX64 (n=Hagar@toronto-HSE-ppp4308016.sympatico.ca)
02:08.08pra5adso do we get ARL shirts for siggraph? or are we too poor
02:09.59brlcadwth are you talking about
02:10.04brlcadbrl-cad shirts, sure
02:38.12justin__pra5ad, how's the I-fund doing :)
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Jeff Waugh - find it at freshmeat.net! Modified by Tim Riker to work with blootbot logs, split per channel, etc. irclog2html for #brlcad on 20060521

irclog2html for #brlcad on 20060521

06:50.50*** join/#brlcad DTRemenak (n=DTRemena@c-24-23-59-104.hsd1.ca.comcast.net)
14:31.58CIA-9BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/rt/worker.c: get rid of the ifdef linux, init some vars used by USE_FORKED_THREADS
15:23.56CIA-9BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/TODO: merge old and new tops behavior
16:16.05CIA-9BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/mged/ged.c: make sure the curr_dm_list isn't null before trying to close the dm
17:06.48*** join/#brlcad IriX64 (n=Hagar@toronto-HSE-ppp4305531.sympatico.ca)
17:07.24IriX64dudes...irix build on ftp 192.168.1.108 and dont laff because thats a local ip address.
17:08.20brlcadIriX64: you have to hang around for more than a few minutes at a time if you want anyone to ever respond.. ;)
17:08.38IriX64thanks i will. ;)
17:08.56IriX64version 7.8.0 though.
17:08.57brlcadalso, telling us your "local" ip address is useless -- there's no way to connect to that
17:09.10IriX64why i connerct to it.
17:09.15IriX64connect
17:09.24brlcadbecause you're on that subnet, it's a private subnet
17:09.31IriX64i have ways ;)
17:09.48brlcadit's not a mystery, just how IP works
17:09.50IriX64says you :)
17:10.08brlcadsays the tcp/ip rfc actually
17:10.58brlcadif you don't know your public IP address, visit http://whatismyip.com  .. it can tell you there
17:11.59IriX64lets do it your way, try ftp 69.159.14.171
17:12.04brlcadanyone connecting to you will only be able to connect to you via that address, and any firewall or router configuration you have in between will have to permit it
17:12.11brlcad~ping 69.159.14.171
17:12.19ibotpong 69.159.14.171
17:16.04IriX64what platforms *don't you support?
17:16.58brlcadno response from an ftp server on that address
17:17.06IriX64huh?
17:17.11brlcadthere's not many platforms not supported
17:17.25brlcadthere is just limited resources to make binaries for all of them all the time
17:17.50IriX64what binaries would you like, pick one ill work on it.
17:18.35brlcadthe list of platforms on http://sf.net/projects/brlcad are the primaries -- you can see versions that are released for each
17:18.51brlcadif there is a platform listed that is not 7.8.0, then that would be one to potentially work on
17:19.08brlcad(except for Mac OS X, it's not updated yet but it has a specific release process)
17:19.23IriX64first i better get my ftp working so i can give it to you.
17:21.26brlcadprobably better, you can upload the binary yourself to ftp.brlcad.org to the incoming directory
17:21.43brlcadthat will be much faster
17:21.55IriX64you have an incoming, i did not know that sorry.
17:22.15brlcadno problem, it's not publicized
17:22.44IriX64thanks.
17:24.38IriX64connection closed by remote host.
17:26.55brlcadanonymous only
17:27.43IriX64doesn't even give the login prompt, just closes.
17:28.34IriX64trying to give you sparc-sunos 7.8 and irix 7.8
17:30.56IriX64ill go start work on mac OS X  m68020 will be architecure
17:31.04IriX64chow all
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19:15.01IriX64regards once again.
19:15.32IriX64on sourceforge you have solaris at 7.4 is that sparc solaris or x86?
19:18.02IriX64and your ftp server doesn't connect.
19:21.18IriX64ill go with sparc-sun-solaris
19:24.56IriX64work to do, i'll be back.
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20:59.16IriX64try ftp to 200.200.200.201.
21:01.35IriX64apple-macosx is there.
21:01.41IriX64version 7.8
21:03.12IriX64anonymous login allowed, i couldnt get connected to your ftp site.
21:07.25brlcad~ping 200.200.200.201
21:07.34ibotpong 200.200.200.201
21:08.18brlcadno ftp server responding on port 21
21:08.36brlcad~nslookup ftp.brlcad.org
21:08.52brlcadtry connecting via ftp to that IP address
21:09.00IriX64thankyou
21:10.04IriX64nothing.
21:10.26brlcadcan you browse to http://ftp.brlcad.org ?
21:11.21IriX64no and shouldnt that be ftp://ftp.brlcad.org?
21:11.56brlcadno, i meant in a web browser
21:12.03IriX64either way. zilch
21:12.08brlcadif you can't reach it in a web browser, there's something else wrong
21:12.41IriX64dunno but i tried and it failed.
21:13.05brlcad~nslookup toronto-HSE-ppp4306588.sympatico.ca
21:13.18brlcadis that the IP address you are browsing from?
21:13.27IriX64she built and installed just a sec while i tar it.
21:13.37IriX64yes thats my address i think.
21:15.03IriX64shes tarring.
21:15.36brlcadyou're not on a block list
21:15.52IriX64if i am i don't know about it.
21:15.57brlcadon this end at least, do you have a firewall or proxy that might be preventing your ability to get out?
21:16.13IriX64everything else works.
21:16.22IriX64just a sec gonna try hobbes.
21:17.53IriX64not your problem i cant even connect via ftp to hobbes.
21:18.09IriX64thankyou tho
21:20.29IriX64soons this finishes tarring ill investigate my problem, do you allow uploads to incoming on ftp.brlcad.org or do i have to be on some sort of list?
21:22.14IriX64gonna go have a smoke, bbiab.
21:32.35IriX64thats my attempt at sparc-solaris, gonna have a go at x86-solaris, but whats the use if i cant get them to you.
21:32.57IriX64make distclean
21:33.04IriX64crap, sorry.
21:47.16brlcadthere's no list, it's open to the public
21:48.21IriX64thank you if i ever get on i have several things for you.
22:01.56IriX64back to work on it, see you later and thanks for the help.
23:58.17*** join/#brlcad IriX64 (n=Hagar@toronto-HSE-ppp4306739.sympatico.ca)
23:58.55IriX64build successfull.
23:59.08IriX64still cant get it to you though.
23:59.32IriX64try ftp 200.105.200.105 i was stealing someone elses ip before.
Jeff Waugh - find it at freshmeat.net! Modified by Tim Riker to work with blootbot logs, split per channel, etc. irclog2html for #brlcad on 20060522

irclog2html for #brlcad on 20060522

00:02.47IriX64or maybe you'll allow a dcc send, i'd dearly like these files to see the light of day.
00:10.48IriX64same old same old, can't get anybody to take me seriously.
00:14.23IriX64ill visit later.
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15:12.20CIA-9BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/mged/attach.c: init curr_dm_list to null
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17:31.12IriX64is this forum for programming, or user questions?
17:32.35archivistdepends whos here to answer
17:33.00IriX64so its safe to say its a mixed forum?
17:35.16archivistyes
17:35.24IriX64make install
17:35.38IriX64duh.
17:36.47IriX64be back later.
17:47.41brlcadhe's a rather odd fellow
17:55.56``Erikmust be canadian
19:07.17brlcadyep
Jeff Waugh - find it at freshmeat.net! Modified by Tim Riker to work with blootbot logs, split per channel, etc. irclog2html for #brlcad on 20060523

irclog2html for #brlcad on 20060523

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18:42.02``ErikHow do you keep a programmer in the shower all day? Give him (or her) a bottle of shampoo which says "lather, rinse, repeat."
18:42.38archivistsounds liks a slashdot joke
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Jeff Waugh - find it at freshmeat.net! Modified by Tim Riker to work with blootbot logs, split per channel, etc. irclog2html for #brlcad on 20060524

irclog2html for #brlcad on 20060524

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23:12.15``Erikpra5ad: yeah
23:16.58pra5adwhen
23:17.12pra5ad9am @ post theater?
23:20.20``Erikja
23:31.52pra5adgah brlcad cvsroot changed
23:32.30pra5adshould start reading the sf.net emails
23:32.32pra5ad:\
23:32.38brlcadprobably
Jeff Waugh - find it at freshmeat.net! Modified by Tim Riker to work with blootbot logs, split per channel, etc. irclog2html for #brlcad on 20060525

irclog2html for #brlcad on 20060525

00:24.12*** join/#brlcad IriX64 (n=IriX64@toronto-HSE-ppp4303262.sympatico.ca)
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01:36.38``Erikbah, stupid nickserv
01:41.42Twingytoday is a glorious day
02:00.46brlcad``Erik: ping
02:01.58brlcada particular file server, one that wm is using right now preparing for a major presentation tomorrow, just disappeared
02:03.12TwingyI can access it
02:03.21brlcadit just returned..
02:03.37Twingyit also has an uptime of 3 minutes
02:03.45brlcadyeah, just noticed
02:03.46Twingyit must have kernel panic'd
02:04.26brlcadmy phone isn't ringing, so hopefully he didn't notice
02:04.42TwingyI wonder if samba is doing that
02:04.52TwingyI don't trust it
02:05.10``Erikheh
02:05.13brlcadpossibly, though it's always a kernels fault to panic :)
02:05.28Twingysamba keeps sliping it a micky
02:05.36``Erikis it working?
02:05.43brlcadit's back up at least
02:05.46Twingywe just lost like 4 months of uptime
02:06.02``Erikit was an update I scheduled to happen WAY AFTER ANYONE SHOULD BE IN THE OFFICE
02:06.04``Eriko.O
02:06.10Twingyoh
02:06.11``Erikit's now running 6.1 with updated ports
02:06.35TwingyI said it once, but I recommend emails to the BND sysadmins when a machine gets upgraded or rebooted
02:06.36brlcad``Erik: tell that to wm tomorrow, i'm sure he'll have choice words for you
02:06.50``ErikI'd raise a stink about wm not alerting certain sysadmins when they require availability outside of business hours
02:07.01``Erikbut *shrug* I didn't notify people, so *shrug*
02:07.03brlcadsupposed to be the other way around :P
02:07.10``Erikheh
02:07.12Twingybusiness hours is 24/7 :)
02:07.14``Erikdude, 10pm?
02:07.40brlcadmajor deal ma?ana
02:07.45``Eriknot according to the opm policies, twingy, no one should be in that office after 6pm
02:08.02Twingyaruge that to chuck and bill :)
02:08.07Twingy*argue
02:08.13``Erikanyways, *shrug* if bill and chuck wig out, I'll deal with 'em tomorrie
02:09.11Twingypjt was also trying to get PP slides off it after opm hours yesterday
02:09.27``Erikstupid bustedass nickserv, not letting me privmsg
02:09.55``Eriktrying? it had issues yesterday?
02:10.21Twingyhe forgot to put on laptop before he left for NM
02:10.35``Erikheh
02:10.45``Erikit had issues?
02:10.53Twingyno, but if it had been tonight...
02:11.07brlcadsure takes a hell of a lot longer to encode 43200 frames of video than it does 360
02:11.27``Erikbout 120x the time?
02:11.42brlcadmuch worse
02:11.57brlcad360 was almost instant, less than a second
02:12.01Twingy5 hours till pay day
02:12.03``Erikerm, 43200/360 = 120
02:12.04``Eriko.O
02:12.18``Erikis that what's clobbering that old linux machine?
02:12.22``Erikthe big one?
02:12.23TwingyI might have to go out for lunch tomorrow
02:12.28brlcadnah, i'm doing that all local
02:12.36brlcaddon't want nfs to slow it down
02:12.42``ErikSOMEONE is beating that machine like you wouldn't believe
02:12.51Twingypost theater at 9am tomorrow?
02:12.56``Erikja
02:13.03Twingy!@#$@
02:13.06``Erik2 hours of hurrrrr
02:13.19Twingy@#$#%!%#!@#^
02:14.02TwingyI think you should do that on 'vi'
02:14.23Twingy*meow*
02:15.35TwingyI did some welding tonight
02:15.49TwingyI think that 20 amp circuit made the difference
02:15.53``Erikheh, with the arcwelder?
02:15.56Twingyyes
02:16.03Twingymuch improved over last time
02:16.06``Erikcool
02:16.13Twingylast time I was on a 15 amp circuit
02:16.25Twingyiirc
02:16.36TwingyI welded two L brackets together
02:16.52TwingyI can jump on it
02:16.57Twingyand drop it on the concrete
02:17.45TwingyI ground the welds and painted
02:17.55Twingyall in about 10 minutes
02:18.12Twingynot the prettiest thing, but for 10 minutes it's not bad
02:18.12``Erikcool beans
02:18.21``Erikpics?
02:18.25TwingyI'll bring it in
02:18.42Twingysee if I can get sean to break it
02:18.45``Erikheh
02:18.56``Erik<-- wonders how clean your pattern is :D
02:19.07Twingynot very
02:19.18Twingyit's flat and it's strong
02:19.38Twingyonce I start doing this on a bench
02:19.42Twingyinstead of hunched over on the floor
02:19.48TwingyI can get a little better control
02:20.37``Erikif it does the job, it does the job *shrug*
02:21.05TwingyI need an air grinder
02:22.40``Erikheh, dremel aint' enough for the inside? :D
02:23.00Twingypfft
02:23.03Twingydremel is a toy
02:23.06``Erikyou have a regular grinder, right? the ones we used in metal shop, we had a grind wheel on one side and a wire wheel on the other
02:23.17``Erikwith heavy shields on both sides
02:23.22Twingy2 aluminum oxide wheels
02:23.32Twingybut not designed to fit such an obtuse shape on the wheel
02:23.36Twingywith the cowling on it
02:23.41``Erikright, the inside :D
02:24.21``Erikbeer good *grunt*
02:25.18Twingyhttp://www.grizzly.com/products/g5785
02:26.37Twingyhttp://www.grizzly.com/products/h0591
02:26.43Twingythat micro grinder is sexy
02:27.01Twingy56,000 RPM
02:29.27``Erikhttp://www.grizzly.com/products/G1090  and slap a wire wheel on one side, dude
02:30.06TwingyI have the 8" version of that
02:30.23Twingythat bracket is bigger than the gap
02:30.36Twingyit doesn't fit in there quite well
02:30.44Twingyyou have to bust off the cowling
02:30.49``Eriktake off the lower shelf?
02:30.54Twingythat would work
02:31.03Twingybut silly every time you want to do something
02:31.07Twingya hand grinder is ideal
02:31.44TwingyI'm going to add another 4 feet onto my work bench I think
02:32.17Twingyor wait until I build a work shed out back
02:35.33Twingylooks like I'll ride scooter to work monday
02:35.41Twingyhelmet arrives tomorrow
02:37.29``Erikum
02:37.35``Erikmonday is a holiday
02:37.40``Erik...
02:37.56Twingytuesday then
02:38.00``ErikI mean, you can ride your scooter in if you want, but, ...
02:38.00``Erik:D
02:38.12TwingyI think my mom will be here monday
02:38.18``Erikwhy not friday? work at home?
02:38.25Twingyso I'm sure she'll remind me not to goto work
02:38.30Twingytelework
02:39.00``ErikI'm productive. o.O
02:40.44Twingyhow's the CASE?
02:41.13``Erikheh
02:43.16Twingybreak time
03:03.16pra5adok.. Lost finale
03:03.19pra5adso very confused
03:37.09scanfcan I create assiciative ISO standard drawings from precise hybrid geometry models entirely with brlcad
03:37.13scanf?
03:38.03scanfs/assiciative/associative/
03:40.52scanfI wonder if anyone here even knows what that meant...
03:49.42Twingythe great thing about standards is there's so many to choose from
03:56.37scanfI'll remind the customer of that point.
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06:26.56scanfok, thanks... I think I know what I wanted to find out.
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15:47.08roshambowho knows how to work oed
15:48.54roshamboWhen i'm using mged, and go to the Edit menu, and do Matrix selection...
15:49.12brlcadit's basically the command line version of doing that in the gui
15:49.27roshamboright, i'm getting to the question
15:49.50brlcadjust how in matrix edit, you have to select the combination/path, and then select the "leaf" -- you have to specify two sides of a path for oed
15:50.03roshambowhen i finally select my region, where everything is illuminated, the path is listed as /Foo.r/__MATRIX__/blah.c/foo.s
15:50.34roshambonow how to do the same with oed
15:51.05roshamboanything with __MATRIX__ gets rejected
15:51.26roshamboso i only end up illuminating blah.c/foos  by invoking oed Foo.r blah.c/foo.s
15:51.33brlcadyeah, __MATRIX__ is just letting you know where the matrix is going
15:51.40brlcaddoesn't really have anything to do with the path
15:51.41brlcadHOWEVER
15:51.57brlcadthe left hand and right hand paths are listed to the left and right
15:52.07brlcadand oed wants to know the lhs and rhs
15:52.17brlcad"left hand side", etc
15:52.30brlcadso: oed /Foo.r blah.c/foo.s
15:52.43brlcadwill apply a matrix on blah.c in Foo.r
15:53.29brlcadalso, just for convenience, the command line "reject" and "accept" commands might be of use the more you get into command line editing
15:53.54roshamboi get that, but that only illuminates foo.s, not all of Foo.r
15:55.03brlcadif you want to apply a matrix over Foo.r, you'd have to put Foo.r on the right hand side
15:55.12brlcadi.e. oed / Foo.r/blah.c/foo.s
15:55.40roshambotrying now
15:55.51brlcadsimilarly, to get foo.s, oed /Foo.r/blah.c foo.s
15:56.09brlcadjust depends on exactly what you want to transform/rotate/etc
15:56.16roshambothanks a bunch
15:56.19brlcadno problem
16:41.21``Erik*belch*
17:08.06archivistfart
18:27.01*** join/#brlcad pier (n=pier@151.56.224.70)
18:32.13brlcadheh
18:34.54archivistdelightful children
19:00.37pierChapter four done :)
19:00.56piergonna end this up by the end of the millenium
19:01.12archivistor die first
19:01.40pier;)
19:02.08pierI simply can't... unless tome two is completed :)
19:56.41brlcad:)
19:57.03brlcadsweet
20:32.31piernotte a tutti :0
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Jeff Waugh - find it at freshmeat.net! Modified by Tim Riker to work with blootbot logs, split per channel, etc. irclog2html for #brlcad on 20060526

irclog2html for #brlcad on 20060526

00:09.01*** join/#brlcad DTRemenak (n=Daniel_R@c-24-23-59-104.hsd1.ca.comcast.net)
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18:03.19``Erikheh, interesting nick o.O
18:06.12Twingyhmm
18:06.24``Erik'sup, twiggly?
18:06.33Twingygetting ready to release isst as beta
18:07.01Twingyjust finishing up some pango stuff
18:07.51Twingythen I'll check it into cvs on forge
18:08.20Twingydamn it's humid out
18:08.52Twingyoh, read this real quick and tell me what you think
18:09.21Twingyhttp://www.fedsmith.com/articles/articles.showarticle.db.php?intArticleID=740
18:09.35Twingythat's 3.1% for all fed employees right?
18:11.58Twingy$XX,XXX  - Item 12A 2005 Base Pay x 2.10% general increase($Y,YYY)
18:11.58Twingy$ZZ,ZZZ  - Item 20A 2006 Base Pay ($XX,XXX + $Y,YYY)
18:11.58Twingy$WW,WWW  - Item 20B 2006 Base Pay x .2000 staffing supplement
18:11.58Twingy<PROTECTED>
18:11.58Twingy$GG,GGG  - Item 20/20C (total of Items 20A + 20B)
18:11.59Twingy<PROTECTED>
18:12.28Twingythat 2.1% seems... wrong
18:16.37TwingyW and N are the same
18:31.21Twingyhttp://de.fishki.net/pics9/podbor82_09.jpg
18:32.26archivistkitten "Hey thats my mum your eating!"
18:33.46andr34sthat is incredibly funny
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23:43.32*** topic/#brlcad is http://brlcad.org/ || BRL-CAD is now Free Software! || Release 7.8.0 is Posted!
Jeff Waugh - find it at freshmeat.net! Modified by Tim Riker to work with blootbot logs, split per channel, etc. irclog2html for #brlcad on 20060527

irclog2html for #brlcad on 20060527

01:31.58Twingy...and back to isst
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09:51.09roshamboi'm running Win2k, and the mged command window is not letting me copy and paste outside,  any help?
09:51.30roshambo(i can't paste to notepad for example)
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18:07.15IriX64want a chuckle? do a /ver on me.
19:25.52*** part/#brlcad IriX64 (n=IriX64@toronto-HSE-ppp4303784.sympatico.ca)
Jeff Waugh - find it at freshmeat.net! Modified by Tim Riker to work with blootbot logs, split per channel, etc. irclog2html for #brlcad on 20060528

irclog2html for #brlcad on 20060528

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13:12.28CIA-9BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/COPYING:
13:12.28CIA-9BRL-CAD: make it more clear that the package as a unified work is GPL though separate
13:12.28CIA-9BRL-CAD: portions of the package are released under different licenses. refer to the
13:12.28CIA-9BRL-CAD: development control structure and refer to HACKING. provide a point of contact.
13:21.59CIA-9BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/HACKING:
13:21.59CIA-9BRL-CAD: add a new section on developer responsibilities outlining what is expected of
13:21.59CIA-9BRL-CAD: them. add details on header organization, usage of the K&R indentation style
13:21.59CIA-9BRL-CAD: (aka java/gnu style), and routines in libbu that should be used for portability
13:21.59CIA-9BRL-CAD: reasons. more on the coding style in general.
Jeff Waugh - find it at freshmeat.net! Modified by Tim Riker to work with blootbot logs, split per channel, etc. irclog2html for #brlcad on 20060529

irclog2html for #brlcad on 20060529

03:40.57*** join/#brlcad digitalfredy (n=digitalf@200.119.94.57)
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Jeff Waugh - find it at freshmeat.net! Modified by Tim Riker to work with blootbot logs, split per channel, etc. irclog2html for #brlcad on 20060530

irclog2html for #brlcad on 20060530

03:48.44*** join/#brlcad digitalfredy (n=digitalf@200.119.94.159)
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22:06.45pra5adsigh..
22:09.38``ErikO.o
23:54.11*** join/#brlcad DTRemenak (n=Daniel_R@c-24-23-59-104.hsd1.ca.comcast.net)
Jeff Waugh - find it at freshmeat.net! Modified by Tim Riker to work with blootbot logs, split per channel, etc. irclog2html for #brlcad on 20060531

irclog2html for #brlcad on 20060531

00:38.58*** join/#brlcad Twingy (n=justin@c-68-33-163-43.hsd1.md.comcast.net)
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17:34.38``Eriknever pull the cord on a self-inflating raft while in a phone booth.
19:07.42*** join/#brlcad digitalfredy (n=digitalf@200.71.62.161)
19:20.47brlcadthat's good advice
19:54.23*** join/#brlcad DTRemenak (n=Daniel_R@c-24-23-59-104.hsd1.ca.comcast.net)
22:08.54justin_I have good advice
22:09.10TwingyNever ask an officer to make a decision.
22:09.35TwingyIt's like telling a windows machine not to crash.
22:24.24``Erikhah
Jeff Waugh - find it at freshmeat.net! Modified by Tim Riker to work with blootbot logs, split per channel, etc. irclog2html for #brlcad on 20060601

irclog2html for #brlcad on 20060601

00:37.52TwingyAll aboot the pentium's werd
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12:51.47CIA-9BRL-CAD: 03bob1961 * 10brlcad/src/tclscripts/archer/Archer.tcl: Mods to remove the expand button when in "Basic" mode. There's also a minor tweak of the aboutDialog's size.
12:57.55CIA-9BRL-CAD: 03d_rossberg * 10brlcad/src/librt/db_open.c:
12:57.55CIA-9BRL-CAD: do not close a mapped file while the database instance is still in use
12:57.55CIA-9BRL-CAD: as db_clone_dbi does not increment dbi_mf->uses
13:50.54brlcadrossberg: i think i see the problem with just what you've said, but would it not be better to increment dbi_mf uses instead of not closing it?
13:51.24brlcadotherwise uses is .. useless ;)
13:54.54brlcaddbi_uses is only incremented in db_open, so it should be safe to increment mf->uses there on the dbi clone
13:59.03rossbergbrlcad: i'm not sure but i think the handling of mf->uses is ok
13:59.35rossbergdbi_uses will be incremented in db_clone_dbi too
14:00.22CIA-9BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/librt/g_submodel.c: remove bad commented-out increment of the dbi_uses. it might benefit to just clone the dbi, but seems unnecessary for a plot routine
14:00.35brlcadthe handling of mf-> uses is okay until you clone the dbi, no? :)
14:01.17rossbergwithout clone the whole thing is trivial
14:01.19brlcadthe issue is perhaps that the mapped files are globally shared
14:01.42brlcadso cloning the dbip doesn't give you a new open mapped file descriptor
14:02.21rossbergno: cloning only increments the reference counter (+ something else)
14:02.33rossbergthis is for garbage collection
14:02.46brlcadright, on the dbi
14:09.40rossbergmf->uses counts references to a mapped file and dbi_uses counts references to a dbip
14:11.05rossbergconsequently adding or removing a reference to a database instance does not change the references to a mapped file
14:11.27rossbergit is still the same database instance which refers to this file
14:14.20brlcadand that seemed like a bug to me -- adding or removing a reference to a database instance could conceivably change the number of references to a mapped file
14:15.09brlcadi think it'll work either way just because how mapped files are these global entities (especially if you just don't free them), just uses memory that could potentially be released
14:16.43rossbergbut this are all indirect references (as the are higher level references via rtip too)
14:18.20rossbergit may be more clear if you think of dbi as an object
14:19.45rossbergindependent of the number of references to this object, it is still only one object
14:23.51rossbergbtw, it looks like the true purpose of db_clone_dbi is the registration of an additional client
14:51.39CIA-9BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/librt/db_open.c: allow for clientless cloning and closing of dbip instances where only the uses count is of interest. no need to stash null clients even though the ptbl will record them, just ignore them.
14:54.17CIA-9BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/mged/ged.c: avoid incrementing the dbi_uses counter directly -- do a clientless clone of the dbip instead
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20:14.56CIA-9BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/libbu/ispar.c: gah, reduce the massive WIN32 block to just the section that mattered so that kill() is not invoked on a bu_bomb().. should eventually contain a WIN32-esque method for killing a parent process gracefully ala kill()
22:37.59CIA-9BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/libbu/bomb.c: avoid passing additional format arguments to fprintf() to avoid potential buffer allocations. very nominal benefit, but can conceivably help with certain crashes and implementations of fprintf().
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Jeff Waugh - find it at freshmeat.net! Modified by Tim Riker to work with blootbot logs, split per channel, etc. irclog2html for #brlcad on 20060602

irclog2html for #brlcad on 20060602

01:23.05justin_it verks
01:37.47*** join/#brlcad digitalfredy (n=digitalf@200.71.62.161)
02:57.34Twingythis CASE package is taking entirely too much time
02:58.05Twingyto think I may have to do this again *shudder*
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13:28.34Twingyhrm, both lcd panels are now broke
13:28.50Twingygood thing I had 4 in the house
13:41.47brlcaddarn skippy
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14:15.48Twingyhumph
14:16.42Twingyyou see that email about spending?
14:22.53``Erikja
14:22.54``Erik:/
14:28.38Twingyperfect timing on alexis
14:28.59Twingywith all the resistance I have faced
14:29.12Twingyit surely would not go through if things were a month or two behind where they are now
14:36.53``Erikheh, I d'no about perfect timing... deferred to the last possible moment, maybe.
14:37.05``ErikHopefully the current operating orders don't alter anything.
14:43.16Twingyindeed
14:43.22TwingyI need to figure out how to do cell plots in s2
14:44.05``Erikheh, there're two people who've done 'em up on this floor, dude *shrug*
14:47.18Twingy3 no?
14:47.48``Erikummmm, mark and ron? who else?
14:48.32Twingyprasad?
14:48.53``Erikhe has? (also; he's in key west, dude)
14:49.07TwingyI've been there twice, fun place
14:49.21Twingythe airport is hilarious
14:49.24Twingyit's like a closet
14:49.28``ErikI think he plans on swimming to cuba to escape the project
14:49.40Twingyhah
14:49.42``Erikyou mean it isn't an umbrella stand next to a dirt field? hehehe
14:50.45Twingyis mark in?
14:50.52``ErikI saw him earlier
14:51.04TwingyI wonder if they transfered is new line yet
14:51.15``Erikprobably
14:51.38``Erikour bc is useful in chasing minor details like that to completion, as long as no thinking or decisions are required
14:51.48``ErikO:-)
14:52.11``Erikstaying in for lunch?
14:55.19TwingyI'm at home :)
14:56.14Twingybut lunch does sound like a splendid idea, bbiab
14:56.17``Erikoh, heh
14:56.33``Erikbitch
14:56.57CIA-9BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/regress/spdi.sh: using == is not portable
15:11.53Twingy<PROTECTED>
15:14.23TwingyWet Bulb!
15:31.29``Eriktwinky: ron believes xcellbrowser is the tool, which looks at the .fr
15:58.08Twingyk
16:01.33TwingyI may have found a room-mate for $375/mo week days only
16:07.44``Erikcool
16:15.05``ErikYou are in a geeky room. Exits are to the North, West, and Down. You see a hungry Erik. He bellows "GIT IN MAH BELLY!"
16:30.22brlcadgo d
16:39.00Twingywield tire iron
16:39.09Twingybludgeon milton
16:39.26Twingyget loot
16:43.27``Erikhe has loot?
16:43.44``ErikI thought he spent it all on guns and bullets and deer tags
16:43.57TwingyI'm sure he's got some jew gold
16:44.00Twingy:D
16:44.03``Erikhahaha
16:44.06``Erikdamnit, cartman!
16:44.13Twingyhand it over bitch!
16:44.49``ErikI don't wanna pay bills anymore. :(
16:44.54Twingyme either
16:45.11TwingyI need to get my truck paid off
16:45.54Twingythen you'll need a ferrari
16:50.02``ErikI'll need a bigger garage
16:50.54``Erikfrance only has a couple days less vacation a year, maybe I'll go there and intimidate them with the combo of my german heritage and american arrogance/cowboyism :D
16:51.30``Erikok, scratch that idea
17:04.31Twingyget the jew gold, no more bills
17:08.13TwingyI think I'm done my CASE today
17:09.28``ErikI hope your case has better grammar than that sentence
17:11.24Twingyaw reck'n it duz
17:12.49``Erik(I'm still left wondering... you completed it today, or you're fed up with it and not touching it for the rest of the day?)
17:13.01``ErikI suspect I'll be working on mine over the weekend
17:13.12TwingyI just got an hour or two left on it
17:14.00``Erikah, I intend to float it by lee on monday, impact the pieces he makes sense on, then pass it off to wendy hopefully by tuesday or wednesday
17:20.15Twingysent my mill motor back today
17:20.22Twingyshould have the new one in 2 weeks
17:20.32``Erik?
17:20.42Twingygetting a better one with more caps for free
17:20.48``Erikah
17:20.52Twingy$22 shipping free
17:49.32``Erikwtf
17:49.55``Erikthe, uh, trash collection contract wasn't renewed, so wendy has john collecting the trash...
18:07.55brlcadgah, pra5ad .. g-var has bugs
18:28.12CIA-9BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/conv/g-var.c: crazy dev trickling variables throughout as if this were c++ code. add a local var footer and remove reference to non-existant codebase. fix header inclusion too.
19:55.01``Erik*snrkt*
19:55.14``Erikhe's a ce, not a cs, pointers are for those cs geeks
20:15.26CIA-9BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/conv/g-var.c: follow the style guidelines, use K&R/Java style braces/indents not BSD. ws.
20:29.56*** part/#brlcad pier (n=pier@151.56.206.155)
20:31.21``Eriknot bsd??? you suck
20:33.34brlcadhttp://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Indent_style
20:35.13brlcadbrl-cad's always been mostly k&r and it's by far the most common
20:35.51brlcadwhich reminds me to set up the automatic nightly formatting
21:48.39``Erikgindent sometimes breaks things :/
Jeff Waugh - find it at freshmeat.net! Modified by Tim Riker to work with blootbot logs, split per channel, etc. irclog2html for #brlcad on 20060603

irclog2html for #brlcad on 20060603

00:44.20CIA-9BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/sh/shtool: treat screen as vt100, avoid the error message about determining how to do bold
00:59.21CIA-9BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/m4/epsilon.m4: so far, only freebsd seems to use doubles for floats .. so revert the leniancy and report when implementations deviate from what should be expected from IEEE compliance.
01:22.41CIA-9BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/other/blt/src/bltInit.c: Tcl_GetAssocData returns a Clientdata, so have to cast to long to avoid mipspro type check failure
01:30.32CIA-9BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/doc/README.IRIX: no longer need to disable blt, build problem fixed (simple cast)
01:34.23CIA-9BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/TODO: sgi knobs and example geometry are pushed back as (sigh) clone still isn't done and EF plugin and archer are going to require considerably more attention. prepare for 7.8.2 release, nothing left to do.
01:38.26CIA-9BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/libpkg/pkg.c: quell unused variable warning
01:47.21CIA-9BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/conv/bot_shell-vtk.c: quell unused variable warning (norm variable)
02:00.06CIA-9BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/conv/bot_shell-vtk.c: missed a norm
02:00.21CIA-9BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/conv/g-adrt.c: quell unused variable warnings
02:01.34CIA-9BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/rt/viewweight.c: quell unused var warning
02:05.07CIA-9BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/rt/viewxray.c: quell unsigned type warning
02:08.19CIA-9BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/libdm/dm_obj.c: USE_FBSERV is now defined by configure, quell set but unused warning on id var.
02:08.20brlcadwell then..
02:08.26brlcadlooks like arl just lost power
02:08.47brlcadand comcast..
02:24.01Twingywee
02:24.05Twingyno
02:24.10Twingyit's part of the new security protocol
02:24.31Twingyif you turn the power off, you don't get hackers
02:24.38Twingyit's brilliant!
02:28.24brlcadhrm.. seems i only lost connectivity to some servers.. ones that should have survived a browning
02:29.22brlcadahh, servers are fine, some router is dead
02:29.39brlcadi can hop over with the right combination
02:31.11brlcadand that router seems to be back now
02:32.18TwingyI suspect I'll be painting, sanding, and spackling all day tomorrow
03:16.18Twingymessy
03:25.27TwingyIf you have a time machine for sale, I would like to buy it. Send an e-mail.
03:25.27TwingyPlease, serious inquiries only
18:37.02*** join/#brlcad ibot (i=ibot@rikers.org)
18:37.02*** topic/#brlcad is http://brlcad.org/ || BRL-CAD is now Free Software! || Release 7.8.0 is Posted!
20:55.24CIA-9BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/conv/g-adrt.c: quell more unused variable warnings
20:56.40CIA-9BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/burst/burst.c: only define sigcld if signal.h doesn't define it
21:00.17CIA-9BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/gtools/g_transfer.c: remove unused variables
21:01.22Twingynothing like working on muves on a saturday
21:02.41CIA-9BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/mged/points/process.c: remove unused variables, quell warnings
21:04.44CIA-9BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/mged/utility2.c: removed unused variable i
21:06.12CIA-9BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/nirt/if.c: quell incompatible parammeter type warning
21:07.19Twingyhrmph
21:07.40Twingythis is rather significant speed up
21:08.07Twingy4.15x speed up, I guaranteed 2x
21:08.22Twingyhaven't optimized anything yet either
21:10.14CIA-9BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/util/bwscale.c: quell type warnings on bu_free
21:10.17Twingy43% memory savings too
21:14.50``Erik4.15 with or w/o ir ?
21:16.29Twingyw/o
21:16.45Twingyand half the code
21:17.00Twingy4.15x speed up, 43% memory savings, half the code
21:17.12Twingyand I'm not even trying :)
21:17.36TwingyI've met my requirements though, so I should be done this week
21:18.13Twingyerik, you should base your M3 benchmarks off the ahem newest version of s2
21:22.26``Erikheh, indeed
21:22.37``Erikalthough that task has been transfered to the new tl
21:22.46Twingyah
21:23.10``Erikapparently, if someone gives them bad news, they move to find someone else for a 'second opinion'... until they hear what they want to hear.
21:23.18``Erikwhich is a good chunk of what drove mike to ssvt
21:23.20``Erik:)
21:23.25Twingyhaha, so dilbertesque
21:23.47Twingyatleast we don't get locked in a hole and shot
21:24.11``Erikyet
21:24.53Twingyhrm
21:25.12Twingyif there were a way to know how many triangles were in the .g file that would save a good chunk of prep time
21:25.41Twingysave on alot of realloc's
21:26.09Twingyinstead I'll set tie_init to something like 256k triangles by default, cater to small models and super fast prep
21:29.00``Erikif you realloc 2*prev each step, would that cut the # of reallocs down enough to be usable?
21:29.26``Erikor if you loaded into dynamic store, like a linked list of 'pages', then counted pages to generate the 'final' area?
21:29.55Twingy2* is good for small values
21:30.07TwingyI have had several versions in there
21:30.13Twingyyou're not teaching me anything new
21:30.28``Erikheh, 2* is good for big values, too... physical pages aren't wired until they're written to
21:30.31TwingyI think I will go back to 8MB hunks
21:30.36Twingyno...
21:30.48Twingyif you're at 1GB and your algorithm goes, whomp 2GB
21:30.53Twingyand the model is 1.1GB
21:31.12Twingyyou just ran out of memory
21:31.12``Erikum, ...
21:31.37Twingyso now you gotta add code to set an upper bound based on your memory limit
21:31.54Twingy8MB chunks, and that's that
21:33.20``Erikno oom
21:33.21``Eriksorry
21:33.30``Erikmemory isn't wired until it's written to
21:34.44Twingyfor windows, for linux, for bsd, for irix, for... ?
21:34.51``Erikfbsd
21:34.58``Erikit SHOULD be the same on linux, and probably irix
21:35.01``ErikI d'no about windows, heh
21:35.44``Erikit's a byproduct of the mmu and COW, any system with virtualized memory SHOULD behave in a similar fashion... :/
21:35.53``Erik(which means old dos would break violently)
21:36.08CIA-9BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/util/ (pl-X.c pl-sgi.c): quell lots of warnings.
21:38.09CIA-9BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/mged/points/process.c: ws
21:42.58CIA-9BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/mged/points/process.c: remove the usage if you're going to remove the decl
21:58.23Twingygetting close to dinner time, and another round of sanding in the garage
22:07.50brlcadtime to go drinking
22:08.19``Erik<-- sips his beer
22:10.00TwingyI have soda and iced-tea
22:10.03``Erikmy kitchen is a lot nicer when clean
22:10.09Twingythe possibilities are endless!
22:11.09Twingylet's see, 2 hours of sanding and painting, 1 hour of basement bathroom work, followed by an hour of kitchen floor work
22:11.22Twingywhat a fun night
22:11.49Twingyback at 10pm
22:54.49*** join/#brlcad brick_ (n=brick@dsl-146-236-32.telkomadsl.co.za)
22:55.23brick_hi
22:56.05brick_Does BRL include tetrahedral meshing capabilities, or is some external app needed?
Jeff Waugh - find it at freshmeat.net! Modified by Tim Riker to work with blootbot logs, split per channel, etc. irclog2html for #brlcad on 20060604

irclog2html for #brlcad on 20060604

00:45.22*** join/#brlcad DTRemenak (n=DTRemena@c-24-23-59-104.hsd1.ca.comcast.net)
02:31.15brlcadbrick_: sorry, it doesn't directly
02:31.41brlcadit does have meshing capabilities, but not tetrahedral
02:31.57brlcadfor that, presumably for fea purposes, we're collaborating with Cubit
02:32.23brlcadSNL project that does very well at meshing for fea purposes
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06:22.52Twingythis fortran shit is annoying me
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10:27.18brick__brlcad: how hard is it to use cubit on brl models currently?
10:27.46brickZAdamn, all nicks taken ;P
12:22.44brlcadbrickZA: cubit itself is pretty trivial to use.  you convert brl-cad geometry to a format cubit will import (e.g. iges, stl, dxf).
12:24.19brlcadthere is work going on to bring in brl-cad geometry directly by hooking into their CGM library
12:24.34brlcadwhich will be better, but even the import route isn't too bad
12:44.04brickZAbrlcad: thanks :)
12:58.30``Erikwi psykotic
14:20.14brlcadhrm, wake up CIA-9
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22:59.58``ErikO.O
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Jeff Waugh - find it at freshmeat.net! Modified by Tim Riker to work with blootbot logs, split per channel, etc. irclog2html for #brlcad on 20060605

irclog2html for #brlcad on 20060605

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22:21.16*** topic/#brlcad is http://brlcad.org/ || BRL-CAD is now Free Software! || Release 7.8.0 is Posted!
Jeff Waugh - find it at freshmeat.net! Modified by Tim Riker to work with blootbot logs, split per channel, etc. irclog2html for #brlcad on 20060606

irclog2html for #brlcad on 20060606

00:24.10CIA-9BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/util/pl-sgi.c: de-k&r-ify, ansify the functions
00:24.12CIA-9BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/util/ (pl-sgi.c remapid.c sgi-pix.c): quell more warnings
00:24.12CIA-9BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/util/pl-sgi.c: move the other defines and globals to the top too
00:26.50CIA-9BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/other/iwidgets/pkgIndex.tcl.in: iwidgets needs to use it's own version, not the version of cad
00:27.01CIA-9BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/tclscripts/swidgets/scripts/tclIndex: apparently some new indexed methods
00:27.02CIA-9BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/ (6 files in 6 dirs): add initial makefiles for the other blt resource directories, help make distcheck work more prevalently
01:25.07CIA-9BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/util/roots_example.c: remove unused var i
01:25.07CIA-9BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/util/sgi-pix.c: few more unused
01:26.55CIA-9BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/configure.ac:
01:26.55CIA-9BRL-CAD: add a new configure --enable-verbose and --enable-progress option, with the
01:26.56CIA-9BRL-CAD: first being a convenience option that enables the progress and warnings verbose
01:26.56CIA-9BRL-CAD: options. the --enable-verbose-progress option (alias) basically adds --silent
01:26.56CIA-9BRL-CAD: to LIBTOOLFLAGS and/or to LIBTOOL.
01:27.22CIA-9BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/other/iwidgets/pkgIndex.tcl: commit the right version for iwidgets, 4.0.1
02:27.53CIA-9BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/util/pl-sgi.c: reorder functions in proper decl/usage order, get rid of const Matrix casts
02:32.32CIA-9BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/m4/args.m4: record whether a configure option was set or not since it may be set yet still be the default
02:36.29CIA-9BRL-CAD: 03bob1961 * 10brlcad/src/tclscripts/archer/Archer.tcl: Check-in mods for Doug. This mod checks for the existence of before trying to use it. Also change version to 0.8.1
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03:22.30CIA-9BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/util/sgi-pix.c: sane function ordering, clean up preprocessor logic, quell warnings, ws.
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15:06.10CIA-9BRL-CAD: 03bob1961 * 10brlcad/src/tclscripts/archer/Archer.tcl: Added a "Display" panel to the preferences dialog. At the moment it provides a simple way to set the viewing cube size.
17:50.58``Erika/det
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21:15.59*** topic/#brlcad is http://brlcad.org/ || BRL-CAD is now Free Software! || Release 7.8.0 is Posted!
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23:35.27CIA-9BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/doc/README.IRIX: ack, API != ABI. Genericize the home directory too.
Jeff Waugh - find it at freshmeat.net! Modified by Tim Riker to work with blootbot logs, split per channel, etc. irclog2html for #brlcad on 20060607

irclog2html for #brlcad on 20060607

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02:45.55*** topic/#brlcad by brlcad -> http://brlcad.org/ || BRL-CAD is an open source solid modeling software suite || Developers needed! Read the HACKING file for details on getting involved || Release 7.8.2 expected on or about June 7th
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18:06.28CIA-9BRL-CAD: 03d_rossberg * 10brlcad/src/librt/g_pipe.c: the bending angle may be (still) near 0, this should not be a problem
18:10.44CIA-9BRL-CAD: 03d_rossberg * 10brlcad/ (include/bn.h src/libbn/mat.c):
18:10.44CIA-9BRL-CAD: provide with bn_mat_inverse a less rigorous function to invert a 4-by-4 matrix,
18:10.44CIA-9BRL-CAD: it is almost impossible to decide in advance if a matrix is singular
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20:04.05``Erika2/det
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Jeff Waugh - find it at freshmeat.net! Modified by Tim Riker to work with blootbot logs, split per channel, etc. irclog2html for #brlcad on 20060608

irclog2html for #brlcad on 20060608

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05:43.48hsrairegister
05:45.36hsrairegister rAi
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13:38.32brlcadhsrai: hello
13:59.10``Erikheh
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17:14.46brlcadahh tom
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18:25.00CIA-9BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/tclscripts/archer/tclIndex: new index entries
18:37.12CIA-9BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/mged/ged.c: unconditionally disable for now
Jeff Waugh - find it at freshmeat.net! Modified by Tim Riker to work with blootbot logs, split per channel, etc. irclog2html for #brlcad on 20060609

irclog2html for #brlcad on 20060609

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21:26.39``Erik*yargn*
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Jeff Waugh - find it at freshmeat.net! Modified by Tim Riker to work with blootbot logs, split per channel, etc. irclog2html for #brlcad on 20060610

irclog2html for #brlcad on 20060610

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Jeff Waugh - find it at freshmeat.net! Modified by Tim Riker to work with blootbot logs, split per channel, etc. irclog2html for #brlcad on 20060611

irclog2html for #brlcad on 20060611

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Jeff Waugh - find it at freshmeat.net! Modified by Tim Riker to work with blootbot logs, split per channel, etc. irclog2html for #brlcad on 20060612

irclog2html for #brlcad on 20060612

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Jeff Waugh - find it at freshmeat.net! Modified by Tim Riker to work with blootbot logs, split per channel, etc. irclog2html for #brlcad on 20060613

irclog2html for #brlcad on 20060613

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16:17.18CIA-10BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/HACKING: add versiontracker to the release notification list
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23:14.50``Erikhttp://radio.weblogs.com/0107064/MyImages/catfaces.jpg
Jeff Waugh - find it at freshmeat.net! Modified by Tim Riker to work with blootbot logs, split per channel, etc. irclog2html for #brlcad on 20060614

irclog2html for #brlcad on 20060614

00:04.07brlcadthats old stuff
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21:37.40Larshi, anyone online?
21:38.40LarsJust came across some limitation in brlcad's iges-import and wanted to let others know about it.
21:57.12*** part/#brlcad Lars (n=Lars@81.213.12.36)
Jeff Waugh - find it at freshmeat.net! Modified by Tim Riker to work with blootbot logs, split per channel, etc. irclog2html for #brlcad on 20060615

irclog2html for #brlcad on 20060615

00:33.28brlcadhrmph
00:34.13brlcadthey have a disney theme park designer as the siggraph keynote speaker..
00:34.38brlcadthat sounds mildly interesting, but I would have hoped for someone more interesting
00:48.15Twingyyep
00:48.22Twingybetter than lucas
00:48.36TwingyI still think Bruce Sterling was best keynote ever
00:48.44brlcadheh
00:48.56brlcadhard to get worse than lucas
00:48.59TwingySIGGRAPH 2003 4 EVA!
00:49.17TwingyI need to get my scsi mobo working
00:49.27Twingyand see if the contents of this scsi drive contain my siggraph 2003 pics
00:49.33brlcadomg! ponies @ siggraph 2007! lol
00:49.39Twingyotherwise they're gone foreva
00:50.14Twingyhttp://js.cx/~justin/scooter.xhtml
00:52.01brlcadusing your own tax-dollar-funded electricity to recharge the battery half the time: priceless
00:55.35brlcadhmm.. so at roughly 1500 miles, you will have fully recouped the expense
00:58.04brlcad35 miles round trip or so per trip, that's 42 trips you'll have to take which should be doable taking a trip once a week throughout the year minus a few weeks where it's too cold/wet
00:58.27Twingyyes
00:58.40Twingyit'll be a while
00:58.51Twingyand helping the environment in the process
00:59.08Twingyand making my small contribution to reducing oil demand
01:05.48``Erikheh
01:06.20``Erikas the oil burning power plants keep providing electricity, paying the penalty for all those step changes, wire loss, etc...
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04:39.03IriX64ll
04:40.47IriX64sorry.
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12:56.55rick_Hello. How do I use voxels in brlcad
12:59.20brlcadyou mean the volumetric primitive?
13:00.12brlcadthe volumetric primitive expects ordered .bw slices like you might get directly from a CT/MRI scan
13:01.32brlcadbw is a single-channel raw pixel image format (first-quadrant) that brl-cad has tools to manipulate and directly create/convert to, etc
13:02.12rick_yes. I would like to fill a complex volume (a tank with a v on the bottem) with volume primatives.
13:03.23brlcadhmm
13:03.57brlcadi'm not sure you mean a volumetric primitive then -- it could work, but doing something with the inverse CSG shape would be exact
13:05.12rick_Let me explain what I am trying to do. Bare with me I new to brlcad.
13:06.07brlcadexample, create an arb that encloses the space in the v that you want to have filled and then subtract the tank and any outside material
13:06.34brlcadan "arb" is a box primitive, if that wasn't clear
13:08.59rick_I have allready created a region of my tank using rpp and arb6  an subtracted the internal volume wich made a sheet metal tank.
13:13.40rick_Is there a way to get the volume of my tank and subdivide into lets say 1 inch cube  volumes.
13:17.41rick_Well I got to go to work, I really like this program. I am hoping to use it for all my projects. Once I get pass the learning curve.
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16:10.25``Erikgoogle for "souhlal said"
16:23.51``Erikhttp://prasad.silva.swellserver.com/news/top_stories/worldrecord.php
16:23.52``ErikO.o
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18:26.38CIA-10BRL-CAD: 03bob1961 * 10brlcad/doc/archer_ack.txt: Minor changes
19:04.26CIA-10BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/db/.cvsignore: add toyjeep.g
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Jeff Waugh - find it at freshmeat.net! Modified by Tim Riker to work with blootbot logs, split per channel, etc. irclog2html for #brlcad on 20060616

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04:39.12digitalfredybrlcad, ping
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16:18.21*** topic/#brlcad is http://brlcad.org/ || BRL-CAD is an open source solid modeling software suite || Developers needed! Read the HACKING file for details on getting involved || Release 7.8.2 expected on or about June 7th
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20:55.28CIA-10BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/HACKING:
20:55.28CIA-10BRL-CAD: Yet another massive rewrite/modification. This time expand the document to
20:55.29CIA-10BRL-CAD: include details relevant to all contributors, not just developers, so that the
20:55.29CIA-10BRL-CAD: file is applicable to anyone with commit access (with particular attention to
20:55.29CIA-10BRL-CAD: documentation writers). Also, finally include some details on where we stand
20:55.31CIA-10BRL-CAD: with C++ and clarify a lot of statements throughout with respect to style,
20:55.33CIA-10BRL-CAD: conventions, and requirements.
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Jeff Waugh - find it at freshmeat.net! Modified by Tim Riker to work with blootbot logs, split per channel, etc. irclog2html for #brlcad on 20060617

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00:54.27``Erikhrmmmmmmm
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Jeff Waugh - find it at freshmeat.net! Modified by Tim Riker to work with blootbot logs, split per channel, etc. irclog2html for #brlcad on 20060618

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10:38.41ddhhi
10:39.03ddhi am seeking help to install brlcad on my ubuntu-dapper
10:39.28ddhi googled, but i could find no sufficient howto.
10:39.56ddhthe INSTALL instructions do not work either
10:40.33ddhi have no configure script in the (extracted) brl tree
10:41.14ddhi do have autogen installed, but when i execute it with sh autogen.sh i get the error that the file is missing.
10:41.33ddhwhen i execute autogen just by autogen, nothing happens
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Jeff Waugh - find it at freshmeat.net! Modified by Tim Riker to work with blootbot logs, split per channel, etc. irclog2html for #brlcad on 20060619

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Jeff Waugh - find it at freshmeat.net! Modified by Tim Riker to work with blootbot logs, split per channel, etc. irclog2html for #brlcad on 20060620

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04:06.47CIA-10BRL-CAD: 03johnranderson * 10brlcad/src/conv/asc-nmg.c: Eliminated a redundant call to nmg_km()
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17:42.26CIA-7BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/NEWS: fixed asc-nmg bug that caused a crash on exit
17:45.52CIA-7BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/ (configure.ac NEWS include/config_win.h): prepare for release of 7.8.2
17:59.01CIA-7BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/ChangeLog: update Changelog for 7.8.2 release
19:08.05CIA-7BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/HACKING: README is updated to the next expected release number while the rest are updated to a developer version
19:10.12CIA-7BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/ (configure.ac NEWS README include/config_win.h): release 7.8.2 is tagged as rel-7-8-2, revision numbers are bumped up to 7.8.3 expecting 7.8.4 to be the next release number in a few weeks
19:11.20CIA-7BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/TODO: propagate the next set of changes for this release, next iteration is still tbd
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Jeff Waugh - find it at freshmeat.net! Modified by Tim Riker to work with blootbot logs, split per channel, etc. irclog2html for #brlcad on 20060621

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09:57.23archivisthmm interest in dimensions is building up, time for another hard look at the database format
13:24.30brlcaddimensions can be done regardless of the database format
13:24.43brlcadthe database format can support the stashing of any key/value data
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13:37.35brlcadthe real "trick" is two-fold
13:38.20brlcad1) extracting the dimensions from the geometry (convert to brep and calculate, or sample the implicit directly)
13:38.54brlcad2) providing a user interface for specifying what they want dimensioned and how to display those dimensions
13:39.51archivistdimensions that are set should control the geometry imho
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13:49.57archivistthe end result will a mixture of derived on the 2d and some driving when the items are created
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14:28.48brlcadi presume you mean dimensions that are effectively tied to the geometry directly such that they become constraints of a sort
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14:31.43archivistyes
14:32.19brlcadhmm.. from a modeling perspective, that gets very tricky
14:32.47brlcadif I have arbitrary geometry, even just a simple primitive with a dimensioned length
14:32.47archivisti realise that
14:33.28brlcadthere can be numerous transforms that will evaluate to an increase in that dimension, e.g. stretching and scaling might both make the dimension increase
14:34.06brlcadand for many prims that could be a completely non-linear transform
14:35.01brlcadunless it just happened to be one of a handful of fairly well-behaved dimensions, like the diameter of a cylinder or a sphere
14:36.03brlcadwhich are pretty trivial of course.. throw in CSG operations and arbitrary dimensions across several primitives and you suddenly have a fairly unsolvable constraint
14:36.23brlcadunless you always scaled uniformly or something wierd.. :)
14:37.40archivistyup I get some wonderfull drags in solid works or a nasty error message
14:38.24archivistone then does it properly forcing dimensions to be sensible or fix relatiions between lines
14:38.33brlcadheh
14:40.36archivistIt generally checks before attempting the stupid, later versions are better in that respect
14:42.16brlcaddoes solidworks let you dimension across parts?
14:42.31brlcadand modify that dimension directly
14:42.45archivistdrawing correct sizes at the start is less fraught
14:43.01brlcadhmm?
14:43.47archivistyou can relate a new part to existing parts in an assembly yes
14:44.10archivistknown as drawing "in place"
14:44.13brlcadbut then is that just a position constraint?
14:44.57archivistwell a mod of the assembly will stretch the part or give an error
14:45.01brlcadi'm thinking of a case where you set a dimension on the span of say a car engine, one for width, one for height etc
14:46.14brlcadif I selected the width and "increased" it.. what would that do if there were no constraints set?
14:47.17archivistholes would not line up graphics will overlap
14:47.46brlcadso it wouldn't stretch all the geometry, just some of it
14:48.14archivistif it was drawn in place then some stretching would tacke place
14:48.47archivistit all depends wether parts are related or not
14:49.10archivistrelations can be added or deleted
14:49.14brlcadrelations are implicit constraints.. this simplist case is fully unconstrained
14:49.40brlcad(just conceptualizing the generic case)
14:50.52archivistunconstrained part grow and the graphics merge (an interference check needed)
14:52.11brlcadand what about the case where all parts are related in an assembly (again, the case of a simple engine for example)
14:52.37brlcadwould it simply  stretch the engine?
14:53.27archivistif it could yes (as long as the related join distance does not have a constraint)
14:54.25brlcadright, was presuming there aren't internal constraints that might impose additional constraints like having a hole some distance from an edge
14:55.39archivisthole from edge may be able to drag the edge
14:57.43archivistI shall have to do some test cases I suppose so we can see whats happening
17:36.22CIA-7BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/tclscripts/mged/pkgIndex.tcl: commit the empty index like all the others if only to be consistent
18:40.41archivistdid a test case draw chassis solid, insert chassis into assembly, draw engine in place, stretch chassis and engine stretches to fit, keeping bolt holes registered
18:41.34archiviststretch was by editing the dimension in the chassis part
18:57.09brlcadthat's sort of what I'd hope expect since your dealing with a lower dimension with dependent constraints
18:57.25brlcadhow does it behave if you create a new dimension for the entire enginge?
18:57.56``Erikvodka would be nice right about now
18:58.21``Erikthe funk soul brother
19:01.44archivistattmpting to constrain the bolt distance of the engine is not allowed
19:03.27archivistbreaking the relation to the chassis would then allow it
20:32.58CIA-7BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/NEWS: 7.6.8 window of opportunity was lost due to merge complications on the 7.6 branch, so cancel it outright. revert, poof, gone.
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Jeff Waugh - find it at freshmeat.net! Modified by Tim Riker to work with blootbot logs, split per channel, etc. irclog2html for #brlcad on 20060622

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01:46.58*** join/#brlcad starseeker (n=user@ip70-161-120-182.hr.hr.cox.net)
02:05.13starseekeranybody here?
02:08.41brlcadsometimes :)
02:08.47brlcadhowdy starseeker .. been a while
02:09.02starseekerYes indeed.  Just got internet back after many months
02:09.09starseekergood to be back!
02:09.36starseekerI see brl-cad has made some strides.  Anybody working on a 7.8.0 ebuild yet, to your knowledge?
02:09.51brlcadnot to my knowledge!
02:10.05starseekerHmm.  A situation requiring attention :-)
02:10.13brlcadthere have been a couple new gentooers interested in the ebuild, but nobody jumping in hard
02:10.41brlcadthere was still one remaining issue iirc, but I hadn't been back to the ebuild to see what it was to get a fix in for it
02:10.54starseekerletsee... I was just looking at that...
02:10.56brlcadbtw 7.8.2 is posted ;)
02:11.02starseekersweet!
02:11.20brlcadbrb
02:14.19starseekerWell, I've got the gentoo-sci overlay here, which I think has it... yes.  Let's see how 7.8.2 does.
02:21.30starseekerOK, here we go...
02:22.37starseekerAh, fudge.  Ebuild wants a patch.
02:22.55starseekerWould it be better for testing purposes to try it with no patches?
02:33.06starseekerOK... it didn't like it when I tried to eautoconf, but I"m trying it with just removing all that and going with the default ./configure...
02:35.22starseekerThey disabled something subesequently not found on the system - re-enabling it...
02:35.31starseekerURT, I think...
02:37.13starseekerGrr - itcl must need a patch.  Darn it, why can't they just use the internal stuff...
02:39.54starseekerWell, I'm almost getting it to finish ./configure so far :-)
02:40.49brlcadfor ebuild it should be using either the --enable-everything or --disable-everything option so that it consistently builds or doesn't build the external dependencies itself
02:41.35starseekerHmm.  Well, they seem to be pretty stubborn about wanting the disable-everything route, but that never seems to work properly.
02:41.44starseekerOK, it's at least building now.
02:41.47brlcadprobably --disable-everything .. that will turn off brl-cad's compilation of almost everything in src/other
02:42.14brlcadshouldn't be any more violations any more
02:42.22starseekerOK, cool :-)
02:42.33brlcadthe biggest issue that I can think of is that it still requires our tcl/tk
02:42.37starseekerI think it's about a 20 minute build (or it was)
02:42.49brlcadmore specifically, it needs our tk
02:43.07starseekeractually, tcl/tk was ok, at least so far  - it was itcl it didn't seem to like
02:43.13brlcadthough I haven't tried piecemealing it with some on and some off
02:43.29starseeker'course, I haven't actually gotten to the tk compile yet...
02:44.17brlcadno?  what fails?
02:44.24brlcadeverything in brl-cad should compile without a hitch
02:44.49brlcadi.e. if you ./configure --enable-everything .. that 'should' always work .. if it doesn't, that's a serious build bug
02:44.50starseekerI think it will.  The configure was a little odd but I'm not convinced that's brlcads fault
02:45.12starseekerOK.  I was doing it wrong - I tried to use internal stuff only when I had to
02:45.26brlcadyou can actually --enable-everything and then --disable specific packages too .. that might be easier for testing
02:46.19starseekerIf enable-everything works we should get an ebuild out there that does that, and follow up with the more finicky one when we can make it work.
02:46.53brlcadwe're really really close to being able to disable everything, it's the tcl/tk itcl/itk/iwidgets stuff that causes serious problems still due to the way they search for script 'packages' at run-time
02:47.35brlcadthat can come to closure and get fixed pretty quickly, but since you weren't around and others weren't nearly as motivated, the priority slowly decreases ;)
02:47.41brlcadpriority follows interest ;)
02:47.48brlcadand involvement
02:47.55starseekerI thought there were some customizations that were made just for brl-cad?
02:47.57starseekerHeh
02:48.10starseekerYes, I see the ebuild comments are rather stale
02:48.33brlcadthere were some customizations make to tk and repairs made throughout their build for minor issues like 64bit bugs and type warnings
02:48.46starseekerI was hoping when that guy came in making fun of my 1st ebuild he would get it completely working.  Maybe it's time to repeat that strategy :-)
02:48.52brlcadbut I removed those shortly after the last time I was testing with either you or one of the debian guys
02:49.08brlcadour tk mods are now in a different library (one of ours) instead of in tk
02:49.15starseekerThe upstream tk maintainers weren't interested?
02:49.17starseekercool
02:49.41brlcadbut.. that code still uses tk internal headers and has to get fixed still.. so until it's fixed it still requires a copy of tk sources from somewhere
02:49.55starseekerSeldom a problem on gentoo ;-)
02:50.11brlcadtrue
02:50.13starseekerOh, is -march=athlon-xp going to get me in trouble?
02:50.49brlcadbut it means that you can't just assume because tk 8.4 is installed that it will compile, it won't.. because it's using internal tk headers as if it was tk itself.. which tk doesn't install
02:50.56brlcadno, that should be just fine
02:51.14brlcadthe veritable test of functionality after everything is installed is to run 'benchmark'
02:51.35starseekerIs that a brlcad binary?
02:51.47starseeker(it's been a while :/)
02:51.50brlcadyes
02:52.03brlcadtechnically not a binary, but it is a core brl-cad application
02:52.09starseekerOK, if I get away with this compile I'll give it a go.
02:52.35brlcadthat ends up exercising all of the core libraries testing performance and verifying that the ray-trace library is computing results correctly within tolerance
02:52.55brlcadit will tell you a metric of how your machine compares performance-wise
02:53.49starseekerOK.
02:54.07brlcadthe BRL-CAD Benchmark has also been around for a couple decades so you can use the number it gives you to see how you compare to systems like a VAX 11/780 and a Cray 2, etc
02:54.14starseekerCool!
02:54.45brlcador a 512 process SGI Origin 2000 or a Mac G5, etc.. any system
02:55.12starseekerMight be depressing though - when we benchmarked our compaq pcs agains our years old dec alphas, our new (expensive) pcs got killed on floating point
02:55.47starseekerWe should have scrounged up a buch of old alphas - more bang for the buck ;-)
02:56.06brlcadit's an excellent direct comparison of "real world" computation power for cpu-intensive applications since it exercises how well your cpu performs, cache levels, access to memory, coherency, compiler optimization options, etc
02:56.26starseekerNice.  Who's the current leader in the AMD/Intel comparison?
02:56.53brlcade.g. it would be a great way to quantifiably compare how much boost gentoo gives to a system by simply compiling with the same compiler and same compiler options on a box with gentoo and then on that same box with a different os
02:57.12starseekerHmm.  That would be interesting.
02:57.27brlcadAMD has been beating in the numerics realm for many years now for general performance computing
02:57.28starseekerHas anybody tried it inside a virtualization environment (e.g. Xen?)
02:58.41starseekerThat might be a good heavy duty test for them
02:58.58starseekerAlthough I guess the CPUs with the proper support for that aren't generally available yet?
02:59.05brlcadIntel's been good in some niche computing areas, e.g. taking advantage of perfectly aligned caches with extensive coherencey, but when it comes to real world application performance, it pays more penalties and AMD has come out on top for most chips for over 5 years now
02:59.21starseekerWow!
02:59.24brlcadinside a virtualization environment?
02:59.48brlcadit's been run inside Mingw on windows and on virtual pc
03:00.10starseekerApparently they are working on creating processors that will allow things like running Windows and Linux side by side at a rather low level (for performance gains)
03:00.13brlcadshows pretty well the sorts of penalties you pay
03:00.25starseekerYes, I'm sure mingw is horrible
03:00.30brlcad:)
03:00.44starseekerMaxima has used mingw, and I think Axiom did too
03:00.51starseekerWhen it's the only game in town...
03:01.19starseekerAh - here's Xen:  http://www.cl.cam.ac.uk/Research/SRG/netos/xen/
03:02.21brlcadahh
03:02.29starseekerThey claim "close to native" performance :-).  Sounds like it's begging for benchmark to take a crack at it ;-)
03:02.34brlcadit'd be interested to see just what that penalty is
03:02.54brlcadthat's what I've always loved about the BRL-CAD Benchmark
03:03.12starseekerI'm hoping to wait on my next PC until I can have Xen allow things like running WIndows and Linux at the same time, seamlessly
03:03.52brlcadit's a real world metric better than the subjective ones you usually see like Photoshop and Maya, and not tied to hardware to specifically beyond the processor like the game FPS benchmarks
03:04.05starseekerRight.
03:04.07brlcadnor is it insanely operation specific like the SPEC ratings
03:04.23brlcadwhere you simply do a billion floating point divides etc
03:04.56starseekerI think some of those tests were intended for very specific numerical simulation optimization, and got perverted into marketing tools.
03:05.33starseekerOK, compiled...  Will it install...
03:06.28starseekerI saw a warning about relinking libfb.a or something similar - is that expected?
03:06.39*** join/#brlcad DTRemenak (n=DTRemena@c-24-23-59-104.hsd1.ca.comcast.net)
03:08.35starseekerOne problem I might have is that my nvidia drivers aren't working with the new Xorg release, so I"m on the basic nv driver
03:09.06starseekerAppears to have installed!!!
03:09.58starseekerLet's see what benchmark does...
03:10.38starseekerIt estimates a little under 10 minutes
03:11.22brlcadthey do get perverted into marketing tools
03:12.07brlcadand if you talk to some of the chip makers.. some of the chips (in particular intel ones) are actually specifically designed to perform very well on the SPEC benchmarks even though their real-world performance is nowhere near as ideal
03:12.27starseekerouch.  That must smart to an engineer
03:12.35brlcadbenchmark default timeframe is 10 minutes, it can be changed to pretty much any length of time
03:13.08starseekerlets see - where does brlcad put its examples?
03:13.18brlcade.g. "TIMEFRAME=10 benchmark" will run it really fast to give a real quick estimate
03:13.34brlcaddid it error?
03:13.41starseekernot so far
03:14.05brlcadeach one of those frames is actually a ray-trace rendering of some geometry
03:14.36brlcadsimple models, but the stress specific types of access and different portions of the BRL-CAD libraries
03:14.48brlcad6 tests in all today
03:15.18starseekerAh, OK.  Well, it is giving answers are RIGHT and 0 off by 1, 0 off by many
03:15.29brlcadgood
03:15.29starseekerOh, it sends them in to the site?
03:15.33brlcadRIGHT answers are good
03:15.36starseeker:-)
03:15.46brlcadno, it doesn't .. would be a sweet feature I'd like to add
03:16.09brlcadbut i'm a bit uneasy myself about how to prompt the user as to whether they want to submit results to a database
03:17.02brlcadplus I need more details to really make sense of the number (cpu type, number of cpus, amount of memory, l1/l2/l3 cache levels, compiler, compiler options, type of memory, version of brl-cad)
03:17.05starseekerMaybe something like: "Tests completed successfully.  Would you like to submit these results to the central brlcad performance benchmarking database? (y|n)
03:17.52brlcadsomething like that could work
03:18.03starseekerMost computers can tell you cpu type and # of cpus I think, and probably amount of memory.  Not sure about the others - does brlcad itself record the options used to build it?
03:18.23starseekertype of memory might be tough.  I'd love to know how to tell what kind of memory I've got.
03:18.47brlcadi can programmatically get most of the details, and it does know how it was built.. but the tool that describes all that to the benchmark suite would need to get written
03:19.10starseekerUgh.
03:19.34starseekerOK, got the results : These numbers seem to indicate that this machine is approximately 1347 times
03:19.34starseekerfaster than the reference machine being used for comparison, a VAX 11/780
03:19.34starseekerrunning 4.3 BSD named VGR.  These results are in fact approximately 3.13
03:19.34starseekerorders of magnitude faster than the reference.
03:20.04brlcadnot too shabby for a single cpu result
03:20.25brlcadseems slightly low if that's a new chip, did you use --enable-optimized?
03:20.36starseekerNo.  It's an old chip though.
03:20.39starseekerlet's see...
03:21.05brlcadahh, without --enable-optimized, the numbers are going to be considerably lower
03:21.19starseekerFudge - how do I check my cpu type
03:21.32brlcadcompiler difference between -O0 and -O3 with additional optimizations is going to be about 2X performance usually
03:21.41starseekerI should say I didn't turn it on - I need to check the ebuild
03:21.42brlcadcat /proc/cpuinfo
03:21.57starseeker<PROTECTED>
03:22.09starseekercache size      : 256 KB
03:22.22starseekercpu MHz         : 1533.236
03:23.18starseekerOpps - it's in the ebuild, but I don't think I used that flag.  OK, one more build...
03:23.24starseekershould I bother sending in this result?
03:23.34brlcadnah
03:23.58brlcadmake sure it's --enable-optimized and --disable-debug for the best results and maybe even add your march flag
03:24.16brlcad(disable-debug isn't that important, but might give 1-2%)
03:24.28starseekerOK - the march flag was in there, I saw it during the build
03:25.49starseekerIs --enable-everything compatible with the above two options?
03:25.50brlcadthat VGR number (1347 in your case) is the bread and butter
03:25.56brlcadyes
03:26.17brlcadenable-everything only affects the --enable-*-build options
03:26.24starseekerAll rightie, let's see if this will build
03:26.29brlcadso has nothing to do with optimized or debug
03:27.13starseekerdoes an athlon xp 1800 still count as a new chip?
03:27.24brlcadthe VGR number is a linear metric, meaning that a machine with a VGR of 2000 is twice as fast as one with a VGR of 1000
03:27.42brlcad1800 is from 5 years ago, no?
03:27.48brlcadmaybe 6
03:27.51starseekerI think - I don't remember now
03:28.17brlcaddoesn't matter, i've been slowly attempting to build a database of performance numbers
03:28.48brlcadhoping to get a website wrapped around it all at some point so people can see just how systems perform under various configurations
03:28.49starseekerCool.  I'll have a somewhat better one for you in half an hour or so ;-)
03:29.27brlcadso you know it.. when you run benchmark, it's dumping out a lot of files into your current directory ... :-)
03:29.50starseekerwoo-doggy
03:30.09brlcadeasy enough to rm -f *.pix *.log summary to get rid of them all
03:30.30brlcadassuming you don't have other pix and log files of importance
03:30.47starseekernot any more ;-)
03:31.05starseekerI don't usually use log files much
03:31.21starseekerbad habit though - I really should keep a closer eye on things
03:31.50brlcadmeh, there's only so many hours in the day to keep an eye on things ;)
03:32.10starseekerexactly.  Maybe I should hire a sysadmin :)
03:32.15brlcadso you said you were offline?  off to school?  in jail? :)
03:32.43starseekerNah (though the office does feel like the latter sometimes) - I turned off the internet for a while to conserve on both time and $$
03:33.01brlcadgotya
03:33.21starseekerSo I had the bright idea of re-installing my system to get all the latest goodies
03:33.28starseekerand ran smack into the expat upgrade
03:33.40brlcadthough heck, I probably would have paid for your internet if it meant getting more brl-cad work out of you ;-)
03:34.21starseekerHeh :-).  Didn't think of that.  The real problem was my girlfriend was 5 hours away up in Delaware and most of my weekends were spent driving up there.
03:34.37brlcadahh, that's just up the road
03:34.37starseekerEven brl-cad doesn't compete with girlfriend ;-)
03:35.10starseekerNow she's in Pittsburgh, which is 10 hours.  So now it's down to once a month, due to travel time and costs
03:35.19brlcadyou probably drove within 5 minutes of my house if you took the I95 corridor
03:35.39starseekerI've only done that once or twice - usually I come up 13
03:35.50starseekerBay bridge costs, but it's a nice drive
03:36.14starseekerYou in Delaware?
03:36.21brlcadit is a nice drive..
03:36.24brlcadno no..
03:36.31brlcadgod that'd drive me nut
03:36.36brlcadnuts
03:36.43starseekerHehe.  No sales tax was nice.
03:36.53brlcadyeah.. but .. it's .. deleware ;)
03:37.10starseekerWell, at least it has the virtue of not being NJ :-)
03:37.18brlcadthere's nothing there except a couple beaches and tax free shopping
03:37.27brlcadthat's true
03:37.31starseekerthe only state I am aware of which collects money from you to let you out is NJ ;-)
03:37.41brlcadhehe
03:38.08starseekerWell, they do have some solar research at Delaware, but thanks to the current administration the $$ kinda dried up
03:38.33starseekerCool.  We went down to MD for dinner once in a while
03:39.00starseekerGot my only speeding ticket to date in MD
03:39.06brlcadheh
03:39.18starseekerNever drive fast after midnight on Superbowl sunday - the cops are all bored
03:40.33brlcad95 is heavily patrolled most of the time through MD, have to know their camping spots but even then it's still a big gamble
03:40.59brlcadthey make a lot of their funding on it
03:41.22starseekerYep.  If we suddenly all slowed to legal speeds I think there would be a financial crisis in law enforcement
03:41.23brlcadwith a particular affinity for out-of-state cars ;)
03:41.27starseekerheh
03:41.45starseekerThat night I think I was the ONLY car.
03:42.40starseekerI think the most fun I had doing that drive was when NASCAR was getting out in Dover and I was going the other way - there's something immensely satisfying about doing 60 down the road watching a 17 mile backup on the other side :-)
03:43.15brlcadthe one nice thing is that since 95 is so heavily traveled and it feeds through baltimore/washington that the average speeds are conveniently high
03:43.27starseekerTrue.
03:43.38brlcadbut it also means the cops can pretty much pull over anyone they want depending on how much quota they have to fill that month ..
03:44.07starseekerI think I"ve seen as many as 4 cars stationed in once spot on 95, come to think of it.
03:44.10starseekerand it was in MD
03:45.32brlcadcoworker and I that used to travel 50+ miles a day at usually 80-100 mph most of the way and we used to joke about how cars that got "selected" was like them simply choosing a sacrificial lamb
03:46.11brlcada form of random taxation for the 'privilege' to drive fast if you will
03:46.22starseekerYep.  
03:46.50starseekerI think if they would raise the driving license age by another 5 years or so they could up the speeds another 10 miles.
03:47.36starseeker50+ miles a day is a mean commute
03:47.42brlcadthey could already do that pretty safely, half of the neighboring states already did without a problem
03:48.01starseekerYep, then it's the $$, pure and simple
03:48.11brlcadpretty much
03:48.41starseekerHow has BRLCAD been doing now that it's open source - have there been real, substantial contributions to the code base yet?
03:48.48brlcadand a lot of conservatives wanting to keep it how it is
03:48.57starseekerthat figures
03:50.23brlcadthere have been some substantial contributions, more so in the last couple months has been growing involvement from a handful of guys learning what's there and making mods
03:51.09brlcadnobody up to speed of what i'd call a core dev yet, but the contributions have been significant
03:51.44brlcadone guy working on converting the major documentation into docbook (long desired task) and he's made great progress pretty much doing exactly what I would have done had I done it myself
03:52.04starseekerThat's handy :-)
03:52.11brlcadanother guy worked on mged fixing a handful of issues and implementing full vi-mode command line editing capabilities
03:52.46brlcadanother windows dev went hog wild making litterally hundred of fixes throughout shortly after it was released for windows
03:53.00starseekerHeh - I see May 23 was a banner day for downloads
03:53.06brlcadthat was just astounding, though I haven't been able to get him onto irc yet to get him integrating better
03:53.24starseekerWindows specific fixes, or general?
03:53.31brlcadboth
03:53.35starseekerWow
03:53.39brlcadmore general then specific actually
03:53.54brlcadthough he also fixed a lot of windows build system issues too
03:54.21starseekerA good windows release is always a major undertaking.  Which installer did you opt for?
03:54.58brlcadit was.. the windows release held up our normal release schedule for several months
03:56.05brlcadmy time was completely taxed trying to integrate the ton of changes that had been made for the windows port over a couple months, then took a couple more of testing and fixing and validating, etc and I'm still trying to catch up and get back to regular monthly releases now
03:56.29brlcadi forget the exact installer, I think it's an installshield right now
03:56.43starseekerReally.  Wow.  I thought that was commercial only
03:56.53brlcadthough I'll likely see if I can someone playing with the windows stuff to look at nsis
03:57.07starseekerYep, I was going to suggest that :-)
03:57.20starseekerIf for any reason that won't work, InnoSetup is the other major one.
03:57.38brlcadi think nsis is actually probably better regardless.. :)
03:57.41starseekerI think  NSIS is the more sophisticated of the two though
03:57.45starseekerer, yeah :-)
03:58.19starseekerAxiom used NSIS, and I'm sure it will again when someone gets gutsy enough to try it again.
03:58.31brlcadinstallshield isn't available to anyone but bob (the current 'primary' windows dev)
03:58.35starseekerAh.
03:59.21brlcadi'm not too thrilled with the current state of the windows build myself but i'm just waiting to see how it all settles down
03:59.47starseekerAre y'all using mingw and msys or the Microsoft tools?
04:00.16brlcadthere are now like 3 ways build on windows, cygwin/mingw or vc6 studio build files or vc7 build files
04:00.35starseekermingw is always a trip because it never steadies down.
04:00.40starseekerWow
04:00.47starseekerno wonder it took months
04:00.51brlcadcygwin/mingw is actually the most comprehensive.. it builds the entire package, all libraries, all binaries
04:01.08brlcadi had that working a couple years ago in just a day
04:01.46brlcadthe vc6 files on the other hand dont' include any of the binaries, but build all of the libraries "best"
04:02.15brlcadthe vc7 files build all of the libraries 'ok' and about 1/4th of the binaries (most of the core ones that people care about)
04:02.30starseekerHmm.  How are the relative benchmark numbers for the different methods?
04:03.00brlcadthe problem with the studio files is that they have to be separately maintained and that's a burden without a really highly active windows dev
04:03.41starseekerYes.  Plus, you need a studio license to even get started
04:03.47brlcadhmm.. i hadn't bothered testing extensively, just quick tests to make sure things were working correctly and get a feel
04:04.08starseekerAuuuuuuuuuuuuuugh
04:04.30starseeker--------------------------- ACCESS VIOLATION SUMMARY ---------------------------
04:04.30starseekerLOG FILE = "/var/log/sandbox/sandbox-sci-misc_-_brlcad-7.8.2-13421.log"
04:04.30starseekeropen_wr:   /usr/lib/describe.com
04:04.30starseeker--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
04:04.31brlcadstudio builds are definitely faster -- the compiler is considerably better at optimizing over what gcc was doing in mingw
04:04.45brlcadhmm.. decribe.com?
04:05.12starseekerYep.
04:05.22brlcadthat sounds familiar
04:05.30starseekerThat didn't happen before - but I'm not sure if it was the enable-everything or the optimized flag
04:05.40brlcadsounds like jove
04:05.58brlcadyep, sure enough..
04:06.04brlcadproblem in the jove Makefile.am
04:06.09brlcad--disable-jove :)
04:06.19starseekerI'll run the benchmark from the /var/tmp/portage directory - it did compile.
04:07.42starseekerI think that sandbox feature is responsible for more Makefile cleanups...
04:07.55brlcadthat was a 1-char typo :)
04:08.00starseekerHehehe
04:08.07CIA-7BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/other/jove/Makefile.am: ACK, typo.. DESDIR != DESTDIR, fix sandbox error
04:08.23starseekermaybe slip in a new 7.8.2 tarball unnoticed? ;-)
04:08.30brlcadheh
04:08.59brlcadnah, ebuild should use --disable-jove
04:09.09starseekerjove isn't essential?
04:09.15brlcadheck no
04:09.25starseekerok, updating...
04:09.39brlcadit would have been removed from the package a long time ago, but it's an editor..
04:09.50brlcadand brl-cad has provided it for a very long time..
04:10.05brlcadever try to get some unix guy to use a different editor? :-)
04:10.40starseekerIt's a little like trying to reason with an Middle Eastern fanatic, actually
04:10.47brlcadlet the vi vs emacs vs nano vs pico vs ed wars commence!
04:11.32starseekerOK, one more time (as soon as the benchmark is done)
04:11.35brlcadnot so important for "external" or "new" users .. especially packaging systems like portage
04:12.10starseekerOK.  Shouldn't be a problem.
04:12.43starseekerThey're unlikely to include my ebuild anyway, since I"m content to go with the use everything option and ignore trying to get it working with external tcl/tk
04:13.08starseekerI'll post it, so that one guy can insult it and write a better one again ;-)
04:13.15brlcadheh
04:14.08brlcadwell the external tcl/tk thing really isn't going to work until some source mods are made at least to that tk component that requires the private headers but probably also to the package search rules for mged, btclsh, and bwish
04:15.04starseekerAny thought to using something other than tcl/tk?  (I know that's a lot of needless work, I just had to ask ;-)
04:15.16brlcadof course
04:15.50starseekerBenchmark results indicate an approximate VGR performance metric of 1510
04:15.56brlcadit would be a monumental effort to actually replace tcl/tk (several man-years of works) entirely
04:16.08starseekerEeeeep.
04:16.42brlcadthe 'plan' though is to leave the tools that use it as-is (i.e. leave mged alone) and develop new tools that don't have the dependency
04:16.51starseekerWe'll schedule that for when Tim Daly begins turning BRL-CAD into a literate programming project ;-)
04:16.57starseekerAh, OK.
04:17.16brlcadmore to the point, a new modeler -- it's actually one of the utmost highest priority development items
04:17.40starseekerSolidworks type UI, or something totally new?
04:19.15starseekerActually, I guess Solidworks is actually a different kind of CAD?  
04:19.46brlcad<PROTECTED>
04:19.52starseekerCool :-)
04:20.07brlcadsolidworks is a different kind of cad slightly, but they do overlap somewhat with the domain
04:20.22brlcadothers would be unigraphics, pro/engineer, catia
04:20.56starseekerare they capable of different things, or is it more a "different design philosophy" sort of difference?
04:21.07starseeker(sorry for the dorky questions)
04:21.11brlcadboth actually
04:21.16brlcadnah, fine questions
04:21.55brlcadif you get into the research, there was a big debate 15+ years ago regarding geometric representations, implicit vs explicit, brep vs csg, etc
04:22.16starseekerFrom what little I have seen of solidworks, it seems to have some fairly good tools for taking a solid and "cutting and shaping" the geometry in precise ways, but that's about all I know about it.
04:22.16brlcadmost of the commercial systems went explicit and brep, brl-cad went implicit and csg
04:22.24starseekerAh :-)
04:22.38brlcadsince then, both realized the benefits of having both and have moved towards hybrid systems
04:22.54starseekerHeh - that must have upset a lot of academics :-)
04:23.05starseekernobody wins the total victory ;-)
04:23.10brlcadthe commercial guys have invested a lot more time/money into being hybrid, brl-cad to a lesser extent though it is something that needs to continue
04:24.13brlcadi.e. brl-cad actually has pretty extensive support for breps and explicit representations, it's just not well exposed by the modeling tools to say the least and not well developed/debugged/etc
04:24.52brlcadthe other big difference is feature-wise -- the big names in the industry have massive purses, massive dev teams
04:24.53starseekerAh.  So the 1st 90% is done, there's just that last 10% that takes 90% of the time? ;-)
04:24.57starseekertrue
04:25.00brlcadimplementing a "full" CAD system is incredibly expensive
04:25.21brlcadit's the only reason that no open source project has even come close to touching the domain before brl-cad was released as open source
04:25.43brlcadand brl-cad has 20 years investment with some pretty top-notch mathematical talent and programming teams behind it
04:25.52starseekerI suspected something of the sort when I started looking around for one
04:26.08starseekerMike Myers was involved, IIRC?
04:26.27brlcadand we're dwarfed by the big names when it comes to domains we don't regularly deal with
04:26.40starseekeronly natural
04:27.28brlcaddrafting, machining, part designing, finite element analyses .. all things we don't "do" well and with each one of those is a long associated feature list
04:27.54brlcadMike Muuss was the primary brains behind brl-cad's origins
04:28.01starseekerOh, sorry :-)
04:28.09starseekerwrong MIke
04:28.22brlcadmike myers is a comedian actor ;)
04:28.49starseekeror coffee
04:29.11brlcadi actually have to head off for a bit myself too
04:29.25starseekerOK - did you want the optimized results?
04:29.26brlcadgood talking with you again as always
04:29.30starseekersame here
04:29.37brlcadsure
04:29.50starseekerRighto - do I copy the terminal output or is there a file?
04:29.55brlcadsend me your 'summary' file
04:30.10brlcadalong with the details of your system and compilation options
04:30.20starseekerOK, I'll see what I can dig up.
04:30.30brlcad/proc/cpuinfo, uname -a, and gcc optimization flags
04:30.49starseekerOK.  I've got them defined in make.conf - does brlcad add any on its own?
04:31.26brlcadwith --enable-optimized it does
04:31.34brlcadhere we go
04:31.38brlcad#   0) Operating system type and version (e.g. uname -a)                                                                                    
04:31.41brlcad#   1) Compiler name and version (e.g. gcc --version)                                                                                      
04:31.44brlcad#   2) CPU configuration (e.g. cat /proc/cpuinfo or hinv or sysctl -a)                                                                      
04:31.48brlcad#   3) Cache (data and/or instruction) details for L1/L2/L3 and system                                                                      
04:31.51brlcad#      (e.g. cat /proc/cpuinfo or hinv or sysctl -a)                                                                                        
04:31.54brlcad#   4) Output from this script (e.g. ./run.sh > run.sh.log 2>&1)                                                                            
04:31.57brlcad#   5) All generated log files (e.g. *.log* after running run.sh)                                                                          
04:32.00brlcad#   6) Anything else you think might be relevant to performance
04:32.24starseekerWhere is run.sh?
04:32.25brlcadforget 4 and 5, the 'summary' file will do just fine ;)
04:32.29starseekerah :-)
04:32.37starseekerOK, will do.
04:32.52starseekerthe benchmark email is still the one to use?
04:33.03brlcadyeah, that's perfect
04:33.29starseekerOK.  Watch the ebuild bug report - I'll post something once it actually builds and start the fight again :-)  Have a good one!
04:34.29brlcadsounds good
04:34.35brlcadthanks again, good stuff
04:34.41brlcadalready found one bug/typo :)
04:35.20starseekerI've done worse for an evening ;-)
04:36.01starseekerI'll probably wait on the ebuild until I'm sure my system is stable - I'm still trying to recover from that expat upgrade
04:36.25starseekerI think another two days or so
04:36.34brlcadcool
04:37.17starseekerThanks for all the work you've put in on this - great stuff!
04:37.46brlcadit'll be awesome to finally have it in portage stable
04:37.48starseeker(nosy question I can't resist) what are the schedule plans for the modeler?
04:39.36brlcadit's on-going development as time permits .. when I'm not dealing with issues/releases/support I work on it, working towards a streamlined 'demo' or 'alpha' so devs can jump in and get involved easily
04:40.23brlcadhoping by this fall to have something that will actually run and maybe show geometry with some basic functionality
04:40.30starseekerneat.  What language are you looking at?
04:41.09brlcadthe overarching design criteria is that it's being treated as if it were a commercial cross-platform game
04:41.38starseeker"Run well everywhere effortlessly?"
04:41.49brlcadC++ is the primary language, built on top of BRL-CAD's existing C libraries and binaries
04:42.46starseekerHmm.  QT4 or WxWidgets sound like logical matches, although I have to admit a preference for QT4.  Is VTK usable for modeling display?
04:43.24brlcadthere is a fundamental plugin/scripting interface that will provide bindings for several languages at runtime including python, tcl, and bash for starters (and maybe perl and lisp)
04:43.36starseekerLisp?  COOOOL!
04:44.14starseeker(ok, benchmark sent, I think.)
04:44.18brlcadvtk is viable, though it's got a plethora of issues (would you expect any game to use vtk? :)
04:44.45starseekerI must admit that's one thing I haven't seen it do yet ;-)
04:44.57starseekerI think blender can develop games though
04:45.01brlcadsimilar issue with wxwidgets
04:46.39brlcadblender basically has a python runtime engine driving that game engine
04:46.47starseekerEeep.
04:47.42starseekerSo much for that then...  does the c++ code in blender have anything useful?
04:48.06brlcadsome aspects potentially
04:49.06starseekerhttp://www.blender.org/cms/typo3temp/pics/2123f2bd80.jpg is impressive enough, I guess
04:50.30brlcadthat's actually not that complex of a model
04:50.55starseekerWow.
04:51.13starseekerI guess that stands to reason though - assembly lines and such have thousands of parts
04:51.25brlcadthey also don't deal at all with solid modeling really, there's no geometric guarantees, no ability to analyse the geometry correctly with guarantees
04:51.38starseekerAh.
04:51.56brlcadjust a bunch of surfaces
04:52.14brlcad"mostly" connected, no insides, no concept of "material"
04:52.38starseekerOuch.
04:52.46brlcadinterferences, geometric construction for an analytic purpose
04:53.00starseekerthat all happens at the UI level?
04:53.24brlcadthere is some folks looking into adding CAD and solid modeling capabilities into blender, but the approach is rather fundamentally flawed
04:53.26starseekerWell, I guess at a minimum you'd need the UI to be aware of it
04:53.40brlcadwhat blender does have is a pretty mature UI
04:54.05brlcadtheir target market though is more in line with products like maya and lightwave
04:54.20brlcadyou'd never think of using maya or lightwave in place of unigraphics or pro/engineer :)
04:54.29brlcadthough all four are "modelers"
04:55.00starseekerSo are unigraphics and pro/engineer kind of a "superset" of the maya/lightwave world?
04:55.12brlcadnot really
04:55.45brlcadthere are things that maya, lightwave and the sort do very very well that are practially not possible with a solid modeling system and vice versa
04:56.23brlcadthe focus is on easily making things that "look" good when rendered (e.g. for a movie)
04:56.45brlcadso it doesn't matter if it's physically correct beyond basic behaviors and appaearance
04:56.54starseekerOh, so they have different optimizations in their design (the emphasis on surfaces)
04:57.06brlcadsolid modelers have the entirely opposite focus -- physical representation is paramount
04:57.50starseekerso solid modelers don't handle things like surface reflectivity?
04:57.53brlcadas the purpose is rarely just to make it look good -- usually the primary purpose is a simulation/analysis, or machining, or designing something that will be manufactured, etc
04:58.09starseekerright
04:58.41brlcadthey can and most do as that's pretty based (brl-cad does for example), but it's not a major feature
04:58.57starseekerOK.
04:59.46starseekerWell, I've got a 6:30am meeting, so I'd better hit the hay :-)  Thanks a lot for the help with basic ideas!
05:00.11brlcadno problem, cheers!
13:56.20CIA-7BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/BUGS: usage of lt says 'lt object' yet if you actually type that you get a bus error.. nice.
13:57.11CIA-7BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/NEWS: fixed asc-nmg manual page usage examples
13:58.14CIA-7BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/conv/asc-nmg.1: fixed asc-nmg manual page usage examples, it doesn't take stdin and output to stdout, but if you provide both file names it works (it will take stdin, but then you can't specify output file)
13:59.10CIA-7BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/libbu/bitv.c: ws
14:21.03CIA-7BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/rt/do.c:
14:21.03CIA-7BRL-CAD: gah, don't reset the view scale.. it might have been specifically set to
14:21.03CIA-7BRL-CAD: something else. instead call do_ae() now instead of waiting for end. this
14:21.03CIA-7BRL-CAD: still doesn't work right as do_ae does its own autoview on the geometry and
14:21.03CIA-7BRL-CAD: resizes, but at least ae command doesn't override now
14:23.35CIA-7BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/NEWS: rt command script 'ae' no longer resets view scale
14:52.38CIA-7BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/ (5 files in 3 dirs):
14:52.38CIA-7BRL-CAD: bigger, better vi command line editing in mged provided by james (swcto). this
14:52.38CIA-7BRL-CAD: adds command history searching as well as pretty much full vi-mode command
14:52.38CIA-7BRL-CAD: editing. (sf patch 1377410 - Bigger, Better vi command line editing)
14:54.07CIA-7BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/NEWS: james made it command edit history searching
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15:52.22CIA-7BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/mged/ged.c: add support for the Mac delete key (backwards and forwards should work now). also fix vi command line editing mode history, quell warnings, pass null parameter.
15:53.54CIA-7BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/NEWS: improved support for Mac 'delete' keys in mged
15:56.42CIA-7BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/mged/ged.c: prevent a bus error if read() returns -1 when reading from the provided file descriptor
16:01.11CIA-7BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/tclscripts/mged/openw.tcl: set the default number of scrollback lines in mged to 10k instead of 1k
16:04.20CIA-7BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/NEWS:
16:04.21CIA-7BRL-CAD: increase default mged line scrollback to 10,000 lines instead of the previous
16:04.21CIA-7BRL-CAD: 1000.. too many commands and listings fill up the 1000 count. users can still
16:04.21CIA-7BRL-CAD: override that default on the fly in their .mgedrc or on the command line.
16:07.10CIA-7BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/other/jove/jove_term.c:
16:07.10CIA-7BRL-CAD: prevent jove from crashing on SGI Altix due to clamping the tgetstr pointer to
16:07.10CIA-7BRL-CAD: 32-bit when it needs to be 64-bit. this requires actually including the right
16:07.10CIA-7BRL-CAD: headers so that tgetstr is properly declared, but declare it to what it should
16:07.10CIA-7BRL-CAD: be regardless since.. this is jove.
16:08.52CIA-7BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/NEWS: ported jove to SGI Altix platform, fixed crash bug.
16:11.54CIA-7BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/rt/opt.c: initialize a slew of uninitialized values using proper casts for the fastf_t types. uninitialized garbage was causing debug and runtime problems on altix
16:18.09CIA-7BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/rt/do.c: check and see if the eye point was set to something different than the look at point, otherwise choose a default 'front' view just to pick a direction. also, make sure rtip is valid before checking lists
17:08.39CIA-7BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/regress/Makefile.am: additional testing files that need to get cleaned up
19:40.30IriX64guys whats am-refresh and does it matter if it didn't get built?
19:50.57brlcadam-refresh is an internal automake rule that checks/updates the Makefiles if a dependency is updated (like editing a Makefile.am)
19:51.51brlcadit shouldn't be necessary at all
19:54.30IriX64thankyou
20:22.38IriX64brb
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23:08.58CIA-9BRL-CAD: 03johnranderson * 10brlcad/src/mged/grid.c:
23:08.58CIA-9BRL-CAD: Fix for bug #1233930 (grid zoom out hangs)
23:08.58CIA-9BRL-CAD: Problem was integer overflow.
23:08.58CIA-9BRL-CAD: Fix was to check for negative integer. A better algorithm for deciding when
23:08.58CIA-9BRL-CAD: the grid should not be drawn is needed here.
23:12.36brlcadand john continues to rock
23:38.10``Erikthe man is an artist
23:41.18``ErikI wish he woulda taken his vsip and had a little fun :/
23:51.22``Erikhe coulda bought that solstace he wanted outright, heh
Jeff Waugh - find it at freshmeat.net! Modified by Tim Riker to work with blootbot logs, split per channel, etc. irclog2html for #brlcad on 20060623

irclog2html for #brlcad on 20060623

01:15.01CIA-9BRL-CAD: 03johnranderson * 10brlcad/src/mged/grid.c:
01:15.01CIA-9BRL-CAD: Improved algorithm for deciding when to not draw the grid. Now compares pixel size to
01:15.01CIA-9BRL-CAD: grid spacing instead of calculating number of dots.
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02:05.08``Erikjra is starting to skeer me.
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16:22.36IriX64well ive compiled my brlcad-7.8.0, now how do i use it?
16:25.29IriX64mged comes up and so does the graphics window.
16:25.59IriX64tried to load moss.g and it loaded but i cant see it.
16:27.48IriX64ahooga klaxon ahooga is any body home?
16:28.54IriX64ah i see, my clientt throws you.
16:29.45IriX64ill return with something more to your liking.
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16:42.34IriX64id really like to see this world on a platter guys.
17:03.32brlcadrun 'tops' to get a list of the top-level geometry
17:03.38brlcadthen run 'e something' to display one of them
17:04.11brlcadhighly recommended (pretty much required) that you go through the tutorials on the website http://brlcad.org
17:04.11IriX64thankyou.
17:04.47brlcadmoss world isn't incredibly exciting.. :)  more interesting might be havoc
17:08.22IriX64loaded galileo
17:08.22IriX64thanks i will go thru those tutorials.
17:08.22IriX64should be able to raytrace these right?
17:10.09IriX64beautiful
17:19.59``Erikya missed lunch, sean :D jra joined
18:43.18CIA-9BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/AUTHORS: add James (swcto - someone who cares) to the list of code contributors for his work on the mged vi mode enhancements
18:47.21CIA-9BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/HACKING: finish up the list of expectations with a rule zero utilizing a concept from Hippocrates' Epidemics: contributors are expected to help, or at least to do no harm.
19:15.52IriX64how do you render ms. April ;)
19:16.54brlcadrendering her is easy, getting ahold of her .g file is what can be tricky ;)
19:17.37IriX64it's all in the attitude :)
19:20.36IriX64awwww man, pdf files? ill just bug you :)
19:22.36IriX64whats the gist of all that licensing stuff, in a nutshell.
19:46.23brlcadwhat licensing stuff?
19:46.53brlcadwhat would you rather have seen over pdf files?  the tutorials are books
19:47.41brlcadyou can actually get them in printed versions too, but the pdfs are provided for convenience
20:09.09IriX64hah i was just kidding about the pdf stuff but the licence for example can i sell binaries?
20:10.12IriX64I know the source cant be charged for but the binaries *I* produce can i charge for them?
20:10.13``Erikhttp://www.gnu.org/licenses/gpl-faq.html  covers the gpl parts of it, I THINK that's the most stringent license used in that regard?
20:14.59IriX64ah ok i can "distribute free software for a fee" neat.
20:16.43IriX64gotta run , may I return later?
20:18.45``Erikno, no you may not!
20:18.46``Erikheh
20:19.29archivistgenerally expected to be the cost of distribution, does he think he is going to get rich
20:46.39brlcadprobably
20:49.45``Eriksean, HACKING :471 doesn't seem worded right o.O should it be something like "inside parens"?
21:00.59CIA-9BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/HACKING: heh, around means immediately inside -- go figure. give a couple more examples while we're at it.
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22:12.46IriX64regards again.
22:16.28IriX64did we ever figure out a way to unlock ms. aprils .g file ;)
22:18.50IriX64make
22:19.09IriX64fark :(
22:21.30IriX64cleverly programmed into each make session is a trip to the px for refreshments :)
22:22.25IriX64in other words i'll be back in 30.
22:47.47IriX64good sandwich, should have stayed longer.
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22:52.35IriX64is that pdp11/70 in the screen shot of muss working on the pdp still active?
23:00.41brlcadIriX64: no, it was decommissioned a few years ago
23:00.55IriX64really, what do you use now?
23:00.56brlcadpieces of it are still available
23:01.08IriX64ill take the switch panel :)
23:02.14IriX64retired tho.
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Jeff Waugh - find it at freshmeat.net! Modified by Tim Riker to work with blootbot logs, split per channel, etc. irclog2html for #brlcad on 20060624

irclog2html for #brlcad on 20060624

02:08.02CIA-9BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/doc/description.txt:
02:08.02CIA-9BRL-CAD: Fill in ALL of the description details about BRL-CAD including different length
02:08.02CIA-9BRL-CAD: description formats useful when preparing materials for informational websites,
02:08.02CIA-9BRL-CAD: software distribution sites, package management systems, release announcement
02:08.02CIA-9BRL-CAD: materials, and more. includes links to frequently needed materials like the
02:08.04CIA-9BRL-CAD: trackers, keywords/categories, and details on how to correctly refer to the
02:08.06CIA-9BRL-CAD: project and even how to pronounce BRL-CAD.
02:12.14CIA-9BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/README:
02:12.14CIA-9BRL-CAD: rewrite the introduction, using the new doc/description.txt details. now
02:12.14CIA-9BRL-CAD: includes the portability heritage and portability details, details on the
02:12.14CIA-9BRL-CAD: geometry representation types, and expanded details on what is provided
02:12.15CIA-9BRL-CAD: tool-wise
02:24.20CIA-9BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/INSTALL:
02:24.20CIA-9BRL-CAD: too many impatient folks don't actually read the Installing from Binary section
02:24.20CIA-9BRL-CAD: and try to run configure/autogen.sh on a binary distribution so try to make it
02:24.20CIA-9BRL-CAD: more clear up-front in the Quick Installation section, and move the binary
02:24.20CIA-9BRL-CAD: instructions up higher in the file.
02:37.42CIA-9BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/TODO: a quick means to generate a testing suite for all binaries with a little scripting
02:59.54CIA-9BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/NEWS: john fixed the mged hang caused by extreme grid zooming bug (sf bug #1233930). Problem was integer overflow, Fix was to check for negative integer.
03:03.45CIA-9BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/NEWS: john continues to rock, provided improved mged grid zooming using pixel size to grid spacing instead of calculating the number of dots. this was a follow up to sf bug #1233930.
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11:25.16CIA-9BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/misc/rcs2log: add rcs2log for convenience, pulled from the cvs contrib directory, in case the local system doesn't happen to have rcs2log available.
11:26.58CIA-9BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/misc/Makefile.am: include cvs2cl.pl and rcs2log in source distributions
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15:40.23igotbsdHi All
15:42.23igotbsdI'm googling for a dual cpu mobo to run fbsd and brlcad on, and it seems to me that several models of Tyan are in the money, any suggestions?, TIA
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17:01.49IriX64regards.
17:02.11IriX64you were right Havoc.g is far more interesting :)
17:04.13IriX64total time to raytrace = 40 seconds, not bad at all.
17:05.22IriX64rendering to the tube, gotta love it.
17:05.54IriX64hahaha a glass plotter, oy vey.
17:07.02IriX64if only u could see my screen when i bring it up, you would i think like it.
17:08.23IriX64busily compiling my latest attempt.
17:09.41IriX64sigh 45 minute compile, and another ten minutes to install.
17:13.49IriX64i think i'll take that coffee break you guys compiled into brlcad :)
17:49.04``Erikget a faster machine? heh
17:50.19IriX64man shes a 2.4 AMD64 model 3800+
17:52.13IriX64but shes installing it now
17:52.30IriX64man i broke your havoc, i put a pipe in the blades :(
17:53.00IriX64you were right moss.g is less impressive.
17:53.13IriX64still wanna see april.g tho ;)
17:53.35IriX64castle is nice
18:03.56``Erikktank, w00t
19:17.29IriX64ktank w33t
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Jeff Waugh - find it at freshmeat.net! Modified by Tim Riker to work with blootbot logs, split per channel, etc. irclog2html for #brlcad on 20060625

irclog2html for #brlcad on 20060625

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08:38.52IriX64ms april sends a sloppy wet kiss :)
08:40.51IriX64brlcad rocks and rolls, kudos to ypu people.
09:50.54IriX64is BrlCad-7.9.0 acceptable as a new version number? :)
10:49.31IriX64make install
10:49.44IriX64sorry.
10:50.17IriX64have you read Fatso?
10:50.20IriX64:)
10:51.10IriX64you know the admiral in charge of the incerator on the aircraft carrier ;)
10:51.58IriX64you should see my dirty tricks squad. :)
11:04.20IriX64cd /usr/brlcad/bin
11:04.38IriX64:(
13:45.12brlcadheh
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Jeff Waugh - find it at freshmeat.net! Modified by Tim Riker to work with blootbot logs, split per channel, etc. irclog2html for #brlcad on 20060626

irclog2html for #brlcad on 20060626

02:02.13CIA-9BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/doc/pad_file.xml.in: (log message trimmed)
02:02.13CIA-9BRL-CAD: Add an initial PAD template file for BRL-CAD. The version and date details are
02:02.13CIA-9BRL-CAD: filled in by configure so that the file doesn't have to keep getting updated
02:02.14CIA-9BRL-CAD: (needs more work) during release time. This file is used by a lot of on-line
02:02.14CIA-9BRL-CAD: distribution sites (predominantly by shareware distributors, but others
02:02.16CIA-9BRL-CAD: including open source too), so that it is easier to add the package to those
02:02.18CIA-9BRL-CAD: on-line distribution sites. PAD is Portable Application Description, an XML
02:04.46CIA-9BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/doc/Makefile.am: add pad_file.xml.in to the dist and clean up after it on a distclean
02:05.48CIA-9BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/configure.ac: calculate the day, month, year individually so that they may be substituted into autoconf template files. add doc/pad_file.xml to the list of generated files
02:07.59CIA-9BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/TODO: clone is a priority for end-of-iteration, anything else is going to be gravy
02:08.49*** mode/#brlcad [+o brlcad] by ChanServ
02:11.40brlcad~topic restore 1
02:11.40*** topic/#brlcad by ibot -> http://brlcad.org/ || BRL-CAD is an open source solid modeling software suite || Developers needed! Read the HACKING file for details on getting involved || Release 7.8.2 expected on or about June 7th
02:12.17*** topic/#brlcad by ibot -> http://brlcad.org/ || BRL-CAD is an open source solid modeling software suite || Developers needed! Read the HACKING file for details on getting involved
02:41.27CIA-9BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/mged/ged.c: er, unless i'm blind, there's no difference between the _WIN32 and non-_WIN32 section. collapse into one
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14:36.25CIA-9BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/librt/db_io.c: comment that db_getmrec loads records into a buffer in v4 format
15:21.34CIA-9BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/mged/clone.c:
15:21.34CIA-9BRL-CAD: begin efforts to port clone and tracker towards supporting v5 databases. the
15:21.34CIA-9BRL-CAD: db_getmrec() function and associated union records are v4 specific structures
15:21.34CIA-9BRL-CAD: that don't apply to v5 so it basically needs to be reimplemented from scratch..
15:21.34CIA-9BRL-CAD: start by initializing all pointers to NULL and getting rid of the useless
15:21.36CIA-9BRL-CAD: propagation of ClientData.
15:23.05CIA-9BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/librt/db_walk.c: ws
16:01.29CIA-9BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/mged/clone.c:
16:01.29CIA-9BRL-CAD: another restructuring step. propagate a resource pointer for librt and don't
16:01.29CIA-9BRL-CAD: pass around the tcl interpreter directly so that we can use thses functions
16:01.29CIA-9BRL-CAD: directly as db_functree callbacks (instead stash the interp into our state
16:01.29CIA-9BRL-CAD: client data structure).
16:26.10CIA-9BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/mged/clone.c:
16:26.10CIA-9BRL-CAD: one more restructuring step, this time propagating the dbip so that the copy_
16:26.10CIA-9BRL-CAD: functions have the right signature to be used as a db_functree callback.
16:26.10CIA-9BRL-CAD: instead of proliferating the usage of the dbip global pointer even further, only
16:26.10CIA-9BRL-CAD: the top-level hook functions use the global then all other routines are using
16:26.13CIA-9BRL-CAD: the one passed as an argument (denoted with _dbip instead of dbip to avoid
16:26.15CIA-9BRL-CAD: shadowing).
18:08.19CIA-9BRL-CAD: 03bob1961 * 10brlcad/src/tclscripts/archer/images/aboutArcher.png: Update with latest BRL-CAD logo.
18:30.15CIA-9BRL-CAD: 03bob1961 * 10brlcad/src/tclscripts/archer/Archer.tcl: Tweaks for IVAVIEW/Sdb mode. Modify the importFg4Sections method (i.e. no longer calling _select_node).
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Jeff Waugh - find it at freshmeat.net! Modified by Tim Riker to work with blootbot logs, split per channel, etc. irclog2html for #brlcad on 20060627

irclog2html for #brlcad on 20060627

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14:25.16CIA-9BRL-CAD: 03bob1961 * 10brlcad/src/mged/ged.c: Minor fix in log_event for _WIN32.
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Jeff Waugh - find it at freshmeat.net! Modified by Tim Riker to work with blootbot logs, split per channel, etc. irclog2html for #brlcad on 20060628

irclog2html for #brlcad on 20060628

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Jeff Waugh - find it at freshmeat.net! Modified by Tim Riker to work with blootbot logs, split per channel, etc. irclog2html for #brlcad on 20060629

irclog2html for #brlcad on 20060629

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12:26.24Open2000hello, surprized to see so much users on this channel :)
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12:40.46CIA-9BRL-CAD: 03bob1961 * 10brlcad/src/tclscripts/archer/Archer.tcl: Added the option to show viewing parameters in the display window.
12:44.33CIA-9BRL-CAD: 03bob1961 * 10brlcad/src/tclscripts/lib/View.tcl: Modified the ae method to call the view object's ae command when getting the azel.
12:46.09CIA-9BRL-CAD: 03bob1961 * 10brlcad/src/tclscripts/lib/Display.tcl: Added code for displaying the viewing parameters.
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16:51.08digitalfredybrlcad, ping
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21:07.24*** topic/#brlcad is http://brlcad.org/ || BRL-CAD is an open source solid modeling software suite || Developers needed! Read the HACKING file for details on getting involved
Jeff Waugh - find it at freshmeat.net! Modified by Tim Riker to work with blootbot logs, split per channel, etc. irclog2html for #brlcad on 20060630

irclog2html for #brlcad on 20060630

00:19.42``Erikhttp://lists.grok.org.uk/pipermail/full-disclosure/2006-June/047380.html
00:35.35``Erikhttp://qreeves.blogspot.com/2006/04/rob-levins-feenode.html
00:35.36``Eriko.O
00:35.39brlcadthat's just wrong
00:39.51brlcadit's the MS-equivalence of software FUD taken to a personal level
00:40.32brlcadlilo spends a LOT of time working on the network, it's just in ways many don't understand or at least appreciate
00:42.22``Erik*shrug* I'm getting these from people who've fled...
00:42.27brlcadthe second one is hilarious.. he created a bot to join all the channels, got lots of complaints from others on the network and then now screams bloody murder when they got fed up with his opt-out bot joining every channel on the network
00:42.32``Erikhe lurks in #scheme, but I don't follow this network
00:42.59brlcadi've interacted with lilo quite a lot over the years
00:43.06brlcadeven talked to him on the phone for a while
00:44.54brlcadpretty straightforward guy with a vision for the network, dealing mostly with things from a "division" level if you get my meaning -- the problem with most have is that he doesn't have the geeky upbringing (which makes him pretty good at the management side in this instance imho)
00:45.24brlcadand he wants to fully fund this operation, starting from the top with himself, which most see as him just being lazy
00:47.03brlcadthis network is contrary to most irc network "purists" (i.e. anarchists) too, and therein lies a huge taste of hatred fodder for a vast majority that didn't expect it
00:47.24brlcadhe's seen as "the man" who puts them down when they don't get what they wanted/expected
00:48.45``Erik<-- is an efnetter, born and raised... :/
00:49.01brlcadservices and staff are centralized, global notices, chan/nickserv's, all fuel for those that just don't get it -- those are things that I appreciate from the network actually, they are part of what make it sane for reasonable software development discussion
00:49.20brlcadeven efnet is starting to centralize somewhat.. :)
00:49.27brlcadthey're just way slower at it
00:49.41brlcadand have a lot more to fight and less reason to go that direction
00:51.59brlcadthe biggest complaint I see and agreewith on the network is the changing of channel name convention to convey a classification
00:52.26brlcadthe ## crap is rather counterproductive and useless imo
00:54.57brlcadGAH!..
00:55.17brlcadwhy am I just now finding out about the FreeBSD Documentation License...
00:57.36brlcadhmm.. they're apparently not listed on the free content license list..
01:00.19``Erikcuz osi is a pack of gpl felating lamers? :D
01:01.14``Erikdamn I talk to some retarded people
01:01.38brlcadactually, even here.. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Open_content
01:01.58brlcadunless i'm just not seeing it
01:02.16brlcadhmm, it is listed on the gnu site, but I must have missed it there
01:02.36brlcadi'm not entirely content with brl-cad's current licensing on the documentation
01:05.53``Erikwhat are they now? the gnu doc license?
01:06.02brlcaddual-licensed
01:06.08``Erik... being?
01:06.08``Erik:D
01:06.14brlcadgfdl and gpl
01:06.25``Eriklooked at 'creative commons license'?
01:07.12brlcadyeah
01:07.40brlcadheh, it's funny if you read gnu.org they are quite at odds with not putting the CC license up there that ARE compatible
01:07.46brlcadjust bitching about the ones that aren't :)
01:08.24``Erikread anything on the most recent stink against the gpl?
01:08.39``Erik"all things on linux must be gpl'd"?
01:17.30brlcadno, haven't
01:17.37brlcadwho's purporting that?
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16:27.07CIA-9BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/NEWS: archer enhancements for displaying view parameters and updated archer splash screen from Bob
16:44.22CIA-9BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/misc/win32-msvc/vers.vbs: file didn't exist before 2005
16:47.45CIA-9BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/misc/win32-msvc/brlcad.dsw: s/\n/\x0D\x0A/g i.e. convert the UNIX line endings to DOS line endings. this is needed to make the MSVC6 Studio environment happy -- converted per Daniel's insight.
16:54.23CIA-9BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/misc/win32-msvc/Dll/ (brlcad.def brlcad.dsp brlcad.rc): s/\n/\x0D\x0A/g i.e. convert the UNIX line endings to DOS line endings. this is needed to make the MSVC6 Studio environment happy -- converted per Daniel's insight.
17:16.17CIA-9BRL-CAD: 03bob1961 * 10brlcad/src/other/blt/library/dd_protocols/Makefile.am: Add tclIndex to brlcadscript_SCRIPTS.
17:18.57CIA-9BRL-CAD: 03bob1961 * 10brlcad/src/other/blt/library/Makefile.am: Add pkgIndex.tcl and tclIndex to brlcadscript_SCRIPTS.
17:20.27CIA-9BRL-CAD: 03bob1961 * 10brlcad/src/other/blt/library/pkgIndex.tcl: Change default library path.
17:25.48CIA-9BRL-CAD: 03bob1961 * 10brlcad/src/tclscripts/archer/cursor.tcl: Do a "package require" using BLT instead of blt for all platforms. If this works out, I need to come back and remove the conditional.
17:27.05CIA-9BRL-CAD: 03bob1961 * 10brlcad/src/tclscripts/archer/Makefile.am: Added ShaderEdit.tcl to scripts.
17:30.34CIA-9BRL-CAD: 03bob1961 * 10brlcad/src/librt/importFg4Section.c: Always compile the fastgen4 import stuff.
17:33.05CIA-9BRL-CAD: 03bob1961 * 10brlcad/src/librt/wdb_obj.c: Always compile the fastgen4 import stuff. Also, if'out the prompt about hiding objects.
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20:27.43IriX64wheres the brlcad help channel or is this it?
20:46.27brlcadthis is it
20:46.46IriX64thankyou, gotta run.
20:46.48brlcadanything and everything related to brl-cad
Jeff Waugh - find it at freshmeat.net! Modified by Tim Riker to work with blootbot logs, split per channel, etc. irclog2html for #brlcad on 20060701

irclog2html for #brlcad on 20060701

00:04.24``Erik...
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10:02.26chinamillis there any nice support of making toolpaths and export to g-code with brlcad?
13:10.53``ErikI don't believe so... one of the developers was working on a seperate tool called "gcam" to generate gcode...
13:12.30``Erikhttp://gcam.js.cx/
13:47.58chinamillThanks for the tip Erik!
15:18.03brlcadchinamill: i can corroborate that as well.. there's not a means to directly export g-code with brl-cad right now, would be cool if someone added the support but it's not a trivial task and not high on the priority list atm
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15:19.07brlcadhello cradek
15:19.11cradekhi all
15:20.00cradekI'm a newbie to brlcad, and sorry if everyone says this, but I'm having problems compiling it, is there documentation other than http://brlcad.org/build_CVS.html I should be looking at?
15:20.25brlcadcradek: definitely -- see the INSTALL file for more comprehensive install instructions
15:20.25cradek(I get an autoheader failure from autogen.sh in step 2)
15:20.48brlcadthere may also be a doc/README.[some_platform] file for your system with some details too
15:21.06brlcadautoheader failure.. wow
15:21.27brlcadrun ./autogen.sh --verbose
15:21.49cradekrunning, I'll put the output on pastebin
15:24.01cradekhttp://pastebin.dyndns.org/305
15:24.03brlcadfor what it's worth, autogen.sh failure generally just means there's something wrong with your installed build tools (like an insufficient version of something in the GNU build system)
15:24.22cradekI am a longtime unix developer but have little experience with auto tools
15:24.26brlcadstrictly speaking, if you're working from a source distribution (non-cvs), then you shouldn't need to run autogen.sh
15:24.51brlcadi.e. if you have a big ass configure file in the top level, then you probably don't need to run autogen.sh
15:25.09brlcadautogen.sh is only required if you've checked out from cvs or really just want to fully "start fresh"
15:25.15cradekok, I am using cvs so far, if this isn't easy to fix I'll use a source distribution
15:25.33chinamillthere is no rpm:s or similar?
15:26.04brlcadahh.. configure.ac:1: error: possibly undefined macro: dnl
15:27.05brlcadthat means autoconf install is somehow hosed or exceptionally old or running in 2.13 mode
15:27.28cradekChecking autoconf version: autoconf --version
15:27.28cradekFound GNU Autoconf version 2.59
15:28.00brlcadthis wouldn't happen to be debian sarge would it?
15:28.07cradekubuntu 5.10 breezy
15:28.14cradekso ... sort of
15:28.32brlcaddebian used to have a very broken autoconf wrapper script
15:28.50brlcadif you ran it directly, it would report the right version, then proceed to invoke the 2.13 autoconf
15:29.19brlcadthat's sort of what seems like is going on here too
15:29.54brlcadanother possibility is that you're simply missing the .m4 files for autoconf
15:30.18cradekI'll remove the autoconf2.13 package and hope for the best then
15:30.28brlcadif you have any other system that you can run autogen.sh on, that would also work -- it doesn't have to be run on the same machine, it can be run on any machine
15:31.49brlcadhave to run out for a bit, bbl if you still have more issues autogen.sh'ing
15:32.14cradekno change when I remove autoconf2.13
15:32.45brlcadthen it must be some other misconfiguration (like the misplaced/uninstalled m4 files)
15:33.23brlcadsomeone in #ubuntu might have an idea as it used to be incredibly frequent when sarge was popular
15:33.36cradekok thank you
15:33.40brlcadnp
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15:40.45chinamill``Erik: do you have a emailadress for the gcam person?
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15:51.00fennyum yum
15:51.07fennso whats all this about gcam?
15:51.37fennis it one of the brlcad developers?
15:54.06chinamill``Erik said so
16:14.56``Erikphark, whud ah miss?
16:15.12``Erikthe url doesn't have an email addy?
16:16.07fenntheres no contact info or anything substantial on the web page at all
16:19.08``Erikhuh
16:22.25``ErikI sent him an aim msg, *shrug* he might not want to be bugged about it, or he might be interested in soliciting ideas and/or effort... but I wanna verify with him before doin' anything, ok?
16:22.50Twingyhey
16:23.28chinamill``Erik: he is more than welcome to join #emc
16:23.37fennit just seems weird to put up a webpage about an open source project and have no source code or download available
16:23.59Twingyit says it'll be avail in aug
16:26.16``Erikheh
16:26.43``Erik:)
16:28.06``Eriktwingy, you dont' have any wintergreen oil, do you?
16:29.17Twingyno
16:29.41Twingygot some WD40 though
16:30.03``Eriktried it, bolts won't budge
16:30.18Twingyuse a can of coke?
16:30.40``Erikhaven't tried that yet... supposedly wintergreen is the best, and vinegar is really good, with coke being somewhere below vinegar
16:30.47Twingyif you can figure out a way to let them soak in a pan for 30 minutes
16:31.04Twingyduct tape it, whatever
16:31.14``Erikso I'm thinking about taking a cup of vinegar out with a brush, or mebbe rubber banding a soaked paper towel
16:31.24fennturpentine
16:31.32fennkroil is stupposed to be the best
16:31.57Twingywhat are you guys planning to use gcam for?
16:32.14fennmaking parts :)
16:32.20``Erikand my dad was a jet mechanic for 20 yrs and a car mechanic before that, so I kinda trust him when he says wintergreen is the hshizzle forrizle
16:32.35``Erikparts for what? :)
16:33.13fennwell, a cnc machine, some hydraulic valves for a robot, turbine engine parts, foam cores for composite layup
16:33.20fennand on and on and on
16:33.47``Erikhobbyist? or work? (if you dont' mind my asking)
16:34.01fenni'm self employed but i dont make any money.. how's that
16:34.19``Erikah, heh... "interested student" ;) *duck*
16:34.46fennthough honestly gcam is not doing things the way i would have done them
16:34.59``Erikhuh, mind if I ask?
16:35.36fennwell the heart of a cam system is the toolpath planning algorithms
16:36.04fennhe seems to be starting off with basic stuff like 3d rendering
16:36.28``Erikhm, 3d rendering, or basic object description?
16:36.56``Erik<-- kinda thinks that tool path is one of those problems that the machine can solve and optimize, just tell it what shape you want to have and let it figure the way to make it...
16:38.09fenni just think it would be smarter to use an already existing library for the 3d data structures and math
16:38.52fennthat's why i was asking all these questions about brlcad's libbn and such
16:40.02``Erikmath is well understood and reasonably easy to implement, tho... I mean, you can slap together solid vector and matrix functions in half a day of mindless work, so why induce a dependancy?
16:40.12fennlol
16:40.21``Erik<-- very much likes the idea of libraries, btw, is playing devils advocate
16:41.27fennis there any interest in STEP import for brlcad?
16:41.56``Erikin a decent operating system with a decent software install concept, dependancies are a non-issue... on fbsd, just type "make install" and it does it's think... :) I wouldn't mind seeing tcl and tk and itcl/itk, libpng, libz, etc ripped out of the brlcad distro...
16:42.07``Erikwhat's "step"? I'm quite ignyant on these things, btw...
16:42.23fennthe file format to end all file formats
16:42.29``Erikmy major contribution so far has been redoing the build system, I don't have the foggiest clue how to model shit :)
16:42.46``Erikthat sounds... slightly biased.
16:42.56fennfor cad systems, it's sorta XML and is extendable to cover all aspects of cad/cae/cam
16:43.23``Erikalthough I'm quite sure if someone were to provide the g-step and step-g program patch... it would be appreciated :)
16:43.33SWPadnosfenn, have you actually seen a STEP file spec?  (I thought you had to pay, like ISO standards)
16:43.59fennSWPadnos: there is a free "express schema" which is the basic xml description
16:44.05SWPadnosah, OK
16:44.08fennand also you can get preliminary standards for free
16:44.18fenni havent actually sat down and looked at either of them
16:45.05fennthere is a nist project to convert express to xml
16:45.35``Erikinteroperability is generally a good thing *shrug* if you wanna code, go to it, and we'll even help ya some by answering questions when we can... if what you produce isn't shit, it may get accepted into the project... :)
16:45.48fennheh thanks
16:46.02fenni'm pretty new to XML and 3d programming in general
16:49.14``Erikok, if you have questions that you can't find through basic research, let us know, but dont' be offended if we tell you to go read manual XYZ :)
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16:58.16``Erik(ohyeah, and if you do ask a question, be patient... it could be over 24 hours before you get a response... but some of us DO read all the backlog)
17:00.16fennare there logs of #brlcad anywhere?
20:01.36brlcadTwingy: you see that bike?
20:03.16brlcadfenn: yes, there is considerable interest in STEP import -- there was work that started on a step library about a year ago, but the lead guy pushing the effort disappeared
20:04.00brlcadfenn: for what it's worth, we also have copies of the STEP standard that we can use for anything specifically related to BRL-CAD
20:04.16brlcad(AP203, AP214, and a few others)
20:04.38brlcad~logs
20:04.39ibotapt/ibot/jbot/purl all log to http://ibot.rikers.org/<channelname>/ where channelname is html encoded ie: %23debian | lines that start with a space are not shown | some channels have stats at http://ibot.rikers.org/stats/<channelname>.html.gz, or updated "nightly"
20:16.15*** join/#brlcad dan_falck (n=danfalck@pool-71-111-76-8.ptldor.dsl-w.verizon.net)
20:19.08brlcadhowdy dan
20:19.52brlcadseems as though much of #emc woke up today and decided to go on a field trip ..
20:21.02dan_falckhi brlcad
20:21.08dan_falckyes we did
20:21.26dan_falckwe are interested in gcam, which we think is related to brlcad
20:21.48dan_falckfenn and SWPadnos probably are very interested
20:21.55dan_falckcradek too
20:22.14dan_falckTwingy, is gcam your program?
20:22.23brlcadnot really related to brl-cad other than it's Twingy's project and he's somewhat related to brl-cad ;)
20:22.34dan_falckok
20:22.44dan_falckfenn, did you get that?
20:22.49brlcadi.e. it shares no code or functionality, doesn't link to any of brl-cad's libs last I looked unless he changed something :)
20:23.29dan_falckhow are you doing these days?
20:23.37brlcadpretty well, keeping busy
20:23.59dan_falcksame here.  Taking a short break from building a deck
20:24.13brlcadthe blasted windows port took up an enormous amount of time, just starting to get back into more useful development
20:24.31dan_falckwe still don't use windows at the shop where I work
20:24.35dan_falckOS X
20:24.39dan_falckand linux
20:24.44brlcadlikewise
20:24.59brlcadcept for the desk junkies, analysts
20:25.13dan_falckmakes it hard to find a CAM program, hence the intense interest in anythin cam related
20:25.15brlcadbut not the modelers, developers, and other tech
20:25.37dan_falckthe owner of our company said that we would NEVER use windows
20:25.42dan_falckand so far so good
20:25.46brlcadyeah, i was talking to him about making his g-code thing a more general purpose library so that I could hook into it in brl-cad
20:25.53dan_falckcool
20:26.21brlcadwell, it would be cool -- depends how much interest gcam in general gets will probably determine if he does
20:26.51fennsorry i was ignoring irc due to a troll on another channel
20:26.58brlcadyay, trolls
20:27.06dan_falckprobably about 20 people from #emc would be interested
20:27.20brlcadhow many of those 20 are users and how many are devs? :)
20:27.24fennooo yes i wouldnt mind getting my hands on the "real" standard
20:27.38fenni've been drowning in complicated standard draft documents all day long
20:27.48brlcadfenn: heh, you and half the industry
20:27.58fennits only like $60 isnt it?
20:28.07brlcadthose damn standards are rather expensive for just about any non-commercial use
20:28.14dan_falckfenn could probably tell you how many are developers in the EMC group
20:28.32fennthere are really only like 5 or 6 active developers
20:28.59fenneveryone's in the same boat though
20:29.13brlcadfenn: i forget the details, but the 5 or 6 APs of STEP that I have were somewhere in the 1-2k range, iso lists the costs iirc
20:30.00brlcadwhich is one part how it's cool that we at least have them to go on, makes it a heck of a lot easier to make an open source library out of them in a manner that anyone could then use
20:30.13brlcadwithout needing to buy their own copy
20:30.42fennoh wow
20:30.56dan_falckfenn: so now we know that gcam is Twingy's program.
20:31.19fennap203 and ap214 are the ones i was interested in
20:31.25fennand step-nc whatever that is
20:31.36fennlooking at the file format it doesnt seem too complicated really
20:31.40brlcadto get the COMPLETE iso spec for STEP, it's roughly in the 10-15k range and would fill at least one 20' library shelf if printed
20:31.50fennits all the buzzwordage that is hard to dig through
20:32.09brlcad203 and 214 are by far the most interesting, though little ones like 11 and 21 become handy when writing a parser
20:32.53fenni would like to make a portable library that could be used in more than just brlcad
20:33.34brlcadit's a shame that the dev that was working on it ran off, he was making good progress
20:34.26brlcadhad taken over the nist parser, updated to the latest step spec, got it working more cross-platform, got it parsing some example step files
20:34.52fennit wasnt terry hancock was it?
20:34.56brlcadall pretty low level still, no hook functionality
20:35.15fenni've been reading this over and over, trying to psych myself up: http://www.freesoftwaremagazine.com/articles/free_matter_economy_4?page=0%2C2
20:35.41brlcadheh, it was a terry
20:35.46fennawesome
20:35.53brlcadbut afaik, his last name wasn't hancock
20:36.07brlcadridder according to sf project account
20:36.11fennoh
20:36.29fennhe wrote a bunch of stuff about a "gnu cad/cam" a long time ago
20:37.10brlcadvaguely remember
20:37.29brlcadi've read some other stuff from hancock, mostly good ideas but definitely not ridder
20:37.32fennoh man sourceforge is so pathetic
20:38.10brlcadridder is a rather bitter guy that doesn't like object oriented designs in general, so somehow I doubt he'd be pushing for a python layer that converts step to xml :)
20:39.12brlcadhe seemed to like lower level libraries, straightforward simple C apis
20:39.36fenni actually dont know which is more appropriate for a file format library
20:40.22brlcadi like and agree with most of hancock's ideas, though there's a reason step wasn't done in xml (and it's not because it predated xml or anything)
20:40.43fennwhy is that, do you know?
20:40.49brlcadthe spirit of that article I like, though a lot of the technical detail is less than appealing
20:41.16fennmaking a new language to describe a file format seems kinda overboard
20:41.25fennor maybe i'm missing something
20:41.44brlcadseveral reasons it wasn't but probably the most significant one that comes to mind is that step is effectively meant to be the combination of every CAD/CAM/CADD vendor's needs
20:42.18fennand xml isnt complex enough? :)
20:42.35brlcadand for a huge subset of those area domains, encoding their data into xml is a non-starter due to utter information explosion (about two orders of magnitude)
20:42.47brlcadexpress is pretty complicated in itself
20:42.57brlcadbut it's somewhat more condensed than xml
20:42.59fenni thought the schema was just a description of the file format
20:43.36fennis there like "introduction to the STEP thingy" document somewhere
20:43.48brlcadyeah, there's an AP for it that you can buy :)
20:44.12brlcadthere's minimal good on-line resources on step
20:44.30brlcada few industry articles give an intro on it, should be easily found with a search
20:44.36fenni've skimmed through 23 out of 1600 folders..
20:44.50fenni read some modern machine shop articles
20:45.17fennin fact i dont even care why they did it
20:45.19brlcadhelps if you toss in the numerical standard id
20:45.23brlcadi.e. iso 10303
20:45.35fennyeah those 1600 are all about 10303
20:45.56fennhttp://www.tc184-sc4.org/SC4_Open/SC4_Work_Products_Documents/STEP_(10303)/
20:46.18brlcadhttp://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ISO_10303
20:47.34brlcadug, sc4 is an iso parrot, that's article's about as well written as the step APs themselves
20:48.21brlcadthis one isn't too bad:  http://www.mel.nist.gov/msidlibrary/doc/jcise1.pdf
20:49.30brlcadnist has a load of useful information, they dumped a lot of time and resources into step about a decade ago that they have given to the community since
20:49.38fennhm - the development of step is one of the largest efforts ever undertaken by ISO
20:49.49brlcadi'd believe that
20:50.44brlcadthe standard really is utterly enormous and complex as it covers just about every single aspect of dealing with a "product"
20:50.57fenni've noticed :)
20:51.02brlcadfrom designing it to creating it to selling and distributing or analysing it, etc
20:51.31brlcadnot just the computer geometric representation, that's just one small part of it
20:51.48brlcad(hence the 203 and 214.. there really are hundreds of protocols)
20:54.59fennsometimes i think they must be joking with some of these flowcharts
20:56.36brlcadsadly, they usually are not
20:57.54brlcadsince it's almost entirely industry driven, "most" presentations and write-ups aren't meant to be "easy" or "clear" -- they're worked on by people that are paid to do so and often the more verbose or the more obscure, the better they're doing their job ;)
20:58.19fennwell it makes me laugh regardless
20:58.30fennmaybe i'll feel differently once i get my hands dirty
20:58.50brlcadjust seeing the iso spec makes me cry sometimes
20:59.12brlcadreading it makes baby seals die I think
20:59.43fenndo you notice signs of rectal bleeding after a protracted coding session :)
21:00.15brlcadhehe
21:26.41Twingyyea I saw the bike
21:26.51Twingyit'll be a while before its out though
21:27.24Twingyand unless they are using non-standard materials for the proton exchange membrane then it's likely to cost $10k or so
21:27.46Twingyand all that will get you is about 1HP
21:36.24brlcadthat's odd.. it's supposed to be shipping already
21:36.42Twingythat would be company suicide
21:36.56Twingythey are looking for manuf partners
21:37.09brlcadit was in a best new product of the year list
21:37.11Twingyand like I said, unless they can figure out how to get rid of the platinum and graphite manuf process...
21:37.23Twingyit's a great product, just not practical from an economic stand point
21:37.38brlcadi'd get one even at 10k
21:37.52TwingyI would to if I had the money
21:37.56Twingy*too
21:37.58brlcadunless it was unusable on the interstate, but it didn't seem like that was the case
21:38.20Twingywait a few years, a substitute catalyst will be researched
21:38.31TwingyI bet you that bike doesn't exceed 30mph
21:38.33brlcadyou'll have it all sorted out by then? :)
21:38.41Twingyme? no, some university
21:38.45brlcadheh
21:39.02Twingyto give you an idea
21:39.06Twingyfuelcellstore.com
21:39.12Twingylook at the prices of those fuel cell stacks
21:39.18Twingythat store skims about 10% off the top
21:39.50Twingy1 HP on that will get you 25 - 30mph (~750W)
21:40.00Twingylook how much a 750W fuel cell costs
21:40.28Twingynow factor in the cost of the bike and shipping
21:41.07Twingyfigure you have some group in china building those for $5/hr
21:41.28Twingybest case scenario you're at $10k in a mass production
21:41.45brlcadmost bikes are 10-30k
21:42.05brlcadso for something "high end" niche like this, I wouldn't be surprised if it were 30-50k
21:42.08Twingyyou can get many gas crotch rocket bikes for $5-$6k
21:42.15Twingyand they do 100mph, not 25 - 30 mph
21:42.15brlcadnot new
21:42.19Twingyyes new
21:42.28TwingyI almost bought a suzuki
21:42.34TwingyI'll pull up the url if you like
21:42.38brlcadnah
21:42.39TwingyI actually sat on it
21:42.44Twingywent to bel air to check it out
21:42.48brlcadfor 6k?
21:42.51Twingyright next to the mexican place
21:42.54Twingy$5,995
21:42.58brlcadthat's crazy.. how many cycles?
21:42.59Twingyyellow and blue
21:43.16Twingythey have about 50 in that shop
21:43.33Twingygets ~50mpg
21:44.09Twingythe #1 problem with fuel cells right now is the catalyst, platinum is just too expensive
21:44.50TwingyI am 100% confident fuel cells will take off, but they need to be re-engineered slightly
21:45.06Twingythey are 2 - 4x more energy dense than lithium polymer batteries
21:45.17Twingy1800psi - 3200psi respectively
21:46.09Twingyand that's at 50% efficiency (standard)
21:47.10Twingybtw, investing in platinum over the next few years is not a bad idea
21:56.52Twingytime for my run, bbl
23:00.54Twingyback
23:19.04dan_falckTwingy: is gcam yours?
23:20.49Twingyyes
23:21.46dan_falckthere are a few of us from the #emc channel interested in it
23:22.02Twingygreat
23:22.12dan_falckso august release then?
23:22.13TwingyI use it on my taig cnc
23:22.39dan_falckcool
23:22.50Twingyyea, some time in aug, I'll be doing alot of traveling in the next month, AZ, IL, MA, NJ
23:23.05Twingy6 weeks actually
23:23.31dan_falckwould you be game for a few us playing with it before then?
23:23.57TwingyI can't guarantee it compiles on anything other than freebsd right now
23:24.17dan_falckthat's ok. we're used to the challenge
23:24.23Twingyit requires gtk+, opengl, automake/conf
23:24.32dan_falckok
23:24.48Twingyk, poke me tonight, I've been working through a todo list all day on it
23:24.58dan_falckok thanks
23:25.15TwingyI'll give you the 5 minute break down on what it is and what it is not
23:25.19dan_falckfenn will be happy too ;)
23:25.22dan_falckok
23:25.46Twingydon't expect it to rival mastercam or anything, ttyl
23:25.57dan_falckthat's ok
23:27.41dan_falckI need to go out and work on the deck. bbl
Jeff Waugh - find it at freshmeat.net! Modified by Tim Riker to work with blootbot logs, split per channel, etc. irclog2html for #brlcad on 20060702

irclog2html for #brlcad on 20060702

00:48.36*** join/#brlcad SWPadnos (n=Me@dsl245.esjtvtli.sover.net)
02:32.32*** join/#brlcad Twingy (n=justin@c-69-250-236-111.hsd1.md.comcast.net)
02:46.08*** join/#brlcad Twingy (n=justin@c-69-250-236-111.hsd1.md.comcast.net)
03:07.13*** join/#brlcad IriX64 (n=IriX64@toronto-HSE-ppp4305091.sympatico.ca)
03:08.12dan_falckTwingy: are you around?
03:12.54Twingyyes
03:13.37dan_falckyou are using freebsd
03:13.57Twingy6.0-RELEASE FreeBSD
03:14.50dan_falckok.  I'm on a mac right now, but could set up another machine with the same thing that you are using
03:15.10TwingyI'm currently debugging gcam, now is probably not the best time
03:15.11dan_falckI have several linux boxes in my garage right now
03:15.17dan_falckok thanks
03:15.52Twingysome time over the next several days might be ok
03:16.18dan_falckok. I will keep monitoring #brlcad
08:32.57``Erik*yawn*
19:02.05CIA-9BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/canon/ (mread.c pix-ipu.c png-ipu.c): break out the common mread() function into its own file from pix-ipu and png-ipu, clean it up a little
19:03.57CIA-9BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/canon/Makefile.am: add mread.c to pix-ipu and png-ipu targets. disable the hopeless canonserver product that is dependent on headers and libs that aren't evidently available (and the tool has minimal utility in either respect.
19:05.46CIA-9BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/canon/canonserver.c:
19:05.46CIA-9BRL-CAD: removed the canonserver target, the sources for this binary are dependent upon
19:05.46CIA-9BRL-CAD: headers and libraries that are not evidently available; similarly it hasn't been
19:05.46CIA-9BRL-CAD: compiled/distributed since at least the new build system has been in place.
19:06.05CIA-9BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/canon/.cvsignore: ignore the generated binaries
19:09.44CIA-9BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/Makefile.am: finally 'revive' the old canon directory back into enabled-by-default build status. should now build/install png-ipu, pix-ipu, ipustat, ipuscan.
19:11.30*** join/#brlcad IriX64 (n=IriX64@toronto-HSE-ppp4305226.sympatico.ca)
19:12.11IriX64twigy you around?
19:12.18IriX64sorry twingy.
19:12.41Twingykinda busy
19:12.44IriX64I'm installing a freebsd brlcad.
19:13.14IriX64would like feedback.
19:13.46IriX64ill zip up the directory and send it to you.
19:13.58Twingyplease don't, I'm busy right now
19:14.08Twingyand not in a good mood
19:14.09IriX64sorry to have troubled you.
19:14.14Twingytry later this evening
19:14.19IriX64sure.
19:16.36IriX64<PROTECTED>
19:18.16``Eriko.O
19:18.30IriX64please i'm serious.
19:18.31``Erikwhy not just use the port?
19:18.42IriX64explain.
19:18.53``Erikcd /usr/ports/cad/brlcad && make install clean
19:19.09``Erikor pkgadd -r cad/brlcad
19:19.10IriX64thought i knew the ins and outs.
19:19.28IriX64i know my compiler not your configure or make.
19:19.53IriX64installed. no way to run it.
19:20.04``Erikit shoulda created an mged.sh in /usr/local/bin/
19:20.08CIA-9BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/NEWS: re-enabled png-ipu, pix-ipu, ipustat, ipuscan
19:20.18``Erikwhich sets some variables and runs /usr/local/brlcad/bin/mged
19:20.32``Erikadd /usr/local/brlcad/bin to your path and all the utils 'just work'
19:20.52IriX64who runs what here ill try to give you all a present.
19:21.23``Erikeh?
19:21.36IriX64I know twingy runs freebsd so i compiled for it.
19:22.36``Erikhm, twingy knows how to compile it himself... and he's a developer, not a user...
19:23.00IriX64you dont get it...i'm not running freebsd.
19:23.06``Erikif you're trying to add new functionality or fix bugs, put the source patch into the sourceforge shtuff...
19:23.34IriX64heh
19:23.37``Erikyou're looking for someone to see if your cross compiler works?
19:23.42IriX64yes
19:23.56``Erikwhy don't you make a hello world and give it to me, then
19:24.09IriX64for what system?
19:24.29``Erikfbsd ia32... 5, 6, 7, whatever, I got 'em all
19:24.40IriX64standby
19:27.35*** join/#brlcad alxarch (n=sonic@ipa188.16.tellas.gr)
19:29.33IriX64how do i get it to you its done.
19:29.58IriX64freebsd flavor i586 arch
19:30.34``Erikdcc works
19:31.05IriX64dcc send ``erik c:\cassandra\home\hello.exe
19:31.42``Eriktry a slash infront of it...
19:31.54IriX64whup
19:33.28IriX64just a sec.
19:35.13*** join/#brlcad IriX64_ (n=who@toronto-HSE-ppp4305226.sympatico.ca)
19:35.26IriX64_problem with my client stand by.
19:36.34IriX64well accept.
19:37.42``Erik<-- didn't get a request
19:38.01``Erikand I have auto-accept turned on
19:38.09IriX64from IriX64_
19:38.22IriX64requests been sent.
19:38.34``Erikhrmmmm
19:38.54``ErikI wonder if freenode is killing the request
19:39.16IriX64i know nothing about freenode sorry, how else can i get it to you?
19:39.20``Erikok, are you a registered user?
19:39.31IriX64this nick yes the other no.
19:40.04``Erikok, in order to send a dcc request, you have to be registered and identified... can you drop it on a web spot? or mail it?
19:40.23IriX64email address?
19:41.13``Erikerik@smluc.org works, I spoze
19:41.40IriX64im reggistered trying again.
19:42.00``Erikhrm, do you have a firewall or something?
19:42.12IriX64not that would stop a dcc send.
19:42.35IriX64client says awaiting reply so the request went out.
19:42.56IriX64going for a smoke ill mail it to you when i get back.
19:43.06``Erikyes, it would... dcc sends work by you sending me a message that includes your hostname and port and opens up that port... my client responds by connecting to that port
19:43.17``Erikso it's sorta backwards to what you'd think :)
19:47.24IriX64firewalls off lets try again.
19:47.53IriX64awaiting reply.
19:48.21``ErikCDCC Auto-geting file 676.hello.exe from [IriX64]
19:48.32``Erikoh well... mail will have to do
19:48.36IriX64sure.
19:51.50IriX64mail sent.
19:52.40IriX64back to this linux build.
19:53.17``Erikthat is a windows PE binary
19:53.29``Erikerik@fenris /tmp$ file hello.exe
19:53.29``Erikhello.exe: MS Windows PE 32-bit Intel 80386 console executable not relocatable
19:53.50IriX64does it run?
19:54.02``Erikno... it's not a bsd program... it's a windows program
19:54.37IriX64post the 2nd and 3rd bytews in the program ill compare them with mine.
19:54.43IriX64bytes
19:54.56``Erikerik@fenris /tmp$ hexdump hello.exe | head -n 1
19:54.56``Erik0000000 5a4d 0090 0003 0000 0004 0000 ffff 0000
19:55.14IriX64crap
19:56.54IriX64mine 4d 90 00
19:57.23IriX64sorr 45 5a 90 00
19:57.44IriX644d 5a 90 00
19:58.19IriX64<PROTECTED>
19:58.28IriX64what gives?
19:59.21IriX64what the fark is fenris?
19:59.23``Erikum, intel is little endian, so when I pasted 16b words, it flipped 'em...
19:59.28``Erikfenris is the name of one of my fbsd boxen
19:59.35IriX64ah
20:00.28IriX64well much thanks for the test, may i hang around a while, ill be quiet.
20:00.30``Erikerik@fenris /tmp$ hexdump -C hello.exe | head -n 1
20:00.30``Erik00000000  4d 5a 90 00 03 00 00 00  04 00 00 00 ff ff 00 00  |MZ..............|
20:00.32``Erikbetter?
20:00.39IriX64yes
20:00.50``Erikerik@fenris /tmp$ hexdump -C /bin/ls | head -n 1
20:00.50``Erik00000000  7f 45 4c 46 01 01 01 09  00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00  |.ELF............|
20:01.16``Eriknow ya got a way to see if your cross-compiler is at least doing something other than local... :)
20:01.46IriX64yes much thanks.
20:02.06IriX64im not very good at this stuff.
20:09.21IriX64where did you get hexdump?
20:17.55IriX64build 20060702      compilation time 34 minutes 36 seconds ... sweet
20:19.59IriX64altho...whats the use of building them?
20:26.54*** join/#brlcad Twingy (n=justin@c-69-250-236-111.hsd1.md.comcast.net)
20:34.06IriX64lets return to the windows build :)
20:35.33IriX64havoc looks beautiful through the window :)
21:15.24IriX64how does *your multipane work, id like to compare notes.
21:16.22IriX64for the longest time i was coding blind, wouldnt build or run on my system.
21:16.53IriX64now she builds beautifully and runs even more beautifully.
21:18.32IriX64hahah rotated havoc to where i wanted her and then moved her back into center screen.
21:19.14IriX64what a beautiful picture.
21:22.38brlcadhmm.. it's raining
21:27.33IriX64``erik expect mail.
21:37.52IriX64you all are a quiet bunch, must be very busy.
21:48.36brlcadalways
21:53.07IriX64heh i tend to my work too.
21:54.04IriX64*nix high on windows rawks :)
21:55.19IriX64sigh..don't blame it on me i'm only 25 with 27 years experience ;)
Jeff Waugh - find it at freshmeat.net! Modified by Tim Riker to work with blootbot logs, split per channel, etc. irclog2html for #brlcad on 20060703

irclog2html for #brlcad on 20060703

00:45.16*** join/#brlcad IriX64 (n=who@toronto-HSE-ppp4305226.sympatico.ca)
00:57.42*** join/#brlcad Twingy (n=justin@c-69-250-236-111.hsd1.md.comcast.net)
03:11.52*** join/#brlcad DTRemenak (n=DTRemena@c-24-23-59-104.hsd1.ca.comcast.net)
06:36.25*** join/#brlcad cradek_ (n=chris@timeguy.com)
09:13.31*** join/#brlcad DTRemenak (n=DTRemena@c-24-23-59-104.hsd1.ca.comcast.net)
18:05.39*** join/#brlcad IriX64 (n=who@toronto-HSE-ppp4303376.sympatico.ca)
18:06.12IriX64twingy... freebsdcad... sending it to incoming now.
18:07.16IriX64have a linux build too, dunno what to do with that one :)
18:12.21IriX64anybody in the channel have use for a linux build of brlcad i586arch?
18:13.46IriX64smoke break.
18:24.08``Erikwhy would twingy want your build? and why would anyone want a linux build? they're available from sourceforge, and pretty much all of us happily compile things ourselves...
18:24.43IriX64did some work on it.
18:25.11IriX64you already have a freebsd build?
18:26.43IriX64chose freebsd cause its not mentioned at sourceforge.
18:27.14brlcadit's one of the supported binary distributions
18:27.31brlcadhttp://sourceforge.net/project/showfiles.php?group_id=105292
18:27.33brlcadtop of the list
18:27.42IriX64ill stop this ftp transfer then.
18:27.56IriX64or would you care to examine it.
18:28.11IriX64did some work on the geometry browser.
18:28.19brlcadwhat sort of work?
18:28.30brlcadit could use a lot of work :)
18:28.35IriX64cascading tree browser.
18:28.49brlcadi know what it is, I wrote most of it
18:28.54brlcadwhat did you do with it?
18:29.15IriX64double click and it displays to the graphics window.
18:29.29IriX64or clear and display and set color
18:29.49brlcadagain, you're telling me what it does.. I know what it does :)
18:29.59brlcadwhat did YOU do with it, any code changes?
18:29.59IriX64prettied the window up a little.
18:30.10IriX64yes some
18:30.27IriX64but this upload is the binaries.
18:30.36IriX64ill send source if you like.
18:30.36brlcadyou should post up a source patch
18:30.51IriX64a diff?
18:31.12brlcadyeah, a unified diff (diff -u), post it to http://sourceforge.net/tracker/?group_id=105292&atid=640804
18:32.54IriX64that site loads but doesn't display anything.
18:33.07IriX64whup sorry.
18:33.19brlcaddo you see the "Submit New" link?
18:33.30brlcadhttp://sourceforge.net/tracker/?func=add&group_id=105292&atid=640804
18:34.09IriX64yes
18:34.29IriX64says login and submit new.
18:34.37IriX64im not in cvs.
18:35.34brlcadso login, and submit new :)
18:36.25IriX64how do i begin doen't i have to be accepted to be able to login?
18:37.19IriX64its the source of the SOURCEforge system i use :)
18:39.59brlcaddo you have a sourceforge account?
18:40.12IriX64no i don't.
18:40.13brlcadif not, create one -- there's a link on the login link
18:40.19brlcadit's quick
18:40.21brlcadpainless
18:40.41IriX64what does it do for me and how much does it cost?
18:41.30ValarQhow is brlcads support for generating drawings?
18:42.13IriX64i dont have a postscript printer or a plotter so i cant comment, however the interface to generate same is beautiful.
18:43.16IriX64the rendering to the screen tho, most beautiful pictures of the gunship ive ever seen, actually only pictures of it ive ever seen.
18:43.30ValarQi have tried to generate postscript from some of the examples and it looks very good
18:43.52ValarQbut i might want to add some measurements and other information
18:43.54IriX64maybe i should invest in such a printer.
18:44.02ValarQcan that be done easily?
18:44.11IriX64should make it so the grid prints.
18:44.29IriX64can be actually.
18:45.27brlcadIriX64: did you even look?  it's free
18:45.51brlcadit lets you submit patches.. if that's not enough in itself, I'm not sure what would convince you
18:46.12IriX64this is how id do it, your raytracing the drawing line by line anyway, simplay add a grid ala acad to the drawing and include an option to scan the grid or not so itll print on request
18:46.39IriX64ive never looked brlcad i thought it was a subscription service like some others.
18:47.42IriX64just have a switch for the grid like you do now.
18:47.57IriX64use the grid control panel to set hash marks.
18:48.36brlcadValarQ: there are various ways to save the wireframe, but the method used "in production" is the rtedge raytracer
18:48.38IriX64smoke break bbiab
18:49.41brlcadrtedge doesn't have dimensioning support yet, but it does do nice hidden-line rendered drawings
18:49.55ValarQrtedge?
18:50.03brlcadexample: http://ftp.brlcad.org/images/havoc_rtedge.png
18:50.25ValarQyeah, that looks great
18:50.39ValarQi'm missing dimenstions thought
18:51.47*** join/#brlcad PrezKennedy (n=Apathy@c-68-33-243-45.hsd1.md.comcast.net)
18:53.12ValarQhow do you make that hidden-line render?
18:53.22brlcadrun rtedge instead of rt
18:53.45brlcadbrlman rtedge (or just man rtedge if your MANPATH is set)
18:54.03brlcadrtedge -F/dev/Xl -s1024 havoc.g havoc
18:54.26brlcadinside mged, maybe something like: rtedge -F/dev/Xl -s800
18:56.01PrezKennedybrlcad, im afraid to wear my glasses now... im afraid no one will recognize me
19:08.12brlcadheh
19:14.58IriX64havoc.sh neat
19:17.31IriX64brlcad thats a lovely pix of havoc.
19:18.10IriX64i have one of her climbing and showing her belly sort of lower left to upper right.
19:20.31``Erik*yawn*
19:20.56IriX64use your raytrace script loader to see ill dcc it to you if you like
19:21.03``Erikfreebsd users are mostly unlikely to bother with a binary on the sf page... we'd rather build from ports or do a pkg_add -r brlcad and get it from the freebsd buildfarm... :)
19:21.15brlcadIriX64: i've yet to see you use dcc successfully ;)
19:21.28``Erikand havoc is an interesting 'coptor... the Mi28, which lost in a bid-war to the Ka50... both impressive machines :)
19:21.32IriX64sigh point taken. :)
19:21.52IriX64do u have a pix of the latter.?
19:22.00``Erikgoogle or go to wikipedia
19:22.20IriX64should have thought of that doh.
19:22.26``ErikI think it's nickname is "black shark"?
19:22.41IriX64ill mail it to ``Erik :)
19:22.42``Erikits, even
19:23.15``Erikheh, the only email of mine you have is one that would bounce a large attachment :>
19:23.18IriX64``Erik my system knows who she is now :)
19:23.46IriX64but no the script is very small load it in mgeds script loader.
19:24.08IriX64displays nicely.
19:24.33``Erikbrlcad, why don't we have a simple aa box that just takes two opposing points?
19:26.39IriX64mail ``Erik.
19:27.38``Erikwhy? I don't want some script shit :/
19:27.53``Erik<-- busy trying to implement metaballs
19:28.11IriX64its such hot shit toilet paper burns when it touches it. :)
19:28.20IriX64smoke time bbiab.
19:31.48``Erikmebbe I'll implement a two point aa box first, heh
19:41.37brlcad``Erik: if you need a ground plane, that'd be a halfspace prim
19:42.13brlcadthere is a make_bb cmd to make a simple bounding box arb on objects
19:42.51brlcaduse that and move the top face underneath and you'll have a perfectly sized base box
20:28.18``Erikhm, I was doing reflective/refrative stuff, so the goal was "near-infinite"
20:28.37``Erikbig honkin' hollow sphere with something to cut through it woulda probably been best...
20:43.42Twingyhum
20:50.40``Erikbastage
20:54.07SWPadnossumnum fargin' bastage?
21:56.43``Erikmmm quesadillas
22:14.37IriX64man.... ive gotta abort, i cant take it anymore.
22:16.11IriX64chow
22:22.21Twingythat's what his mom said just before birth
22:27.39``Erikawesome
22:45.12Twingyhah, grills gone wild
Jeff Waugh - find it at freshmeat.net! Modified by Tim Riker to work with blootbot logs, split per channel, etc. irclog2html for #brlcad on 20060704

irclog2html for #brlcad on 20060704

00:39.02``Erikfolk implosion rocks
00:44.05Twingydamn portupgrade is taking forever
00:44.50Twingy2.9 rather
02:13.15``Erikshoulda used -PP :D
02:13.58Twingyindeed
02:14.09TwingyI'm too used to being on fast machines
02:14.22Twingymaybe this 2.2ghz athlon 64 coming in the mail will solve that
02:15.00Twingythe sad thing is I don't think fbsd stocks 2.9 yet
02:15.05TwingyI think they are still on 2.8
02:15.14Twingyso I will likely have to install by hand
02:16.23TwingyI wonder how hard it would be to get the fbsd admins to create a cam folder in ports
02:20.32Twingythe athlon 64 3500+ should be roughly 2.2x faster than this sempron 2200+
02:22.27``Erikcreating a cam folder is trivial... convincing them that there needs to be one would be more or less impossible, "it should go in ports/cad/" will probably be the response
02:25.15TwingyI need to get a 20 or 23" display for home
15:42.55*** join/#brlcad Twingy (n=justin@c-69-250-236-111.hsd1.md.comcast.net)
15:52.26brlcaddon't we all
15:57.05dan_falckyep
16:09.58Twingydan, I'm back on track again
16:10.20Twingymy e-machine was not delivering the proper signal to my cnc, moving this machine to the garage and ordered a new machine to replace this one
16:10.33Twingyonce I upgrade to gtk2.9 I can resume development
16:20.38dan_falckcool
16:22.01dan_falckare you using EMC to run the machine?
16:27.36``Erikwhat's 2.9 give you over 2.8.20 ?
16:29.04``Erik(and 2.10 is out, which is the 'stable' continuation of 2.9)
16:41.11*** join/#brlcad CIA-9 (i=cia@cia.navi.cx) [NETSPLIT VICTIM]
17:13.52Twingy2.9 has spin widgets in tree view
17:14.06Twingywhich I need for my polyline primitive
17:43.13``Erikah, coo'
17:58.19TwingyT-40 minutes to launch
17:58.53Twingychannel 51
18:06.59``Erik:o thanks for the heads up
18:08.02``Erik30:00
18:09.03Twingyplus 9 min hold
18:18.35brlcadgiven how much he just LOVES crowds.. I doubt it :)
18:19.18``Erikyeah, but he could watch it out his condo window
18:20.49``Erikwtf..
18:20.57``ErikI was able to privmsg? freenode must be broken, heh
18:22.04brlcadnah, I disabled it
18:22.23brlcadindividuals can disable it with nickserv, just defaults to off
18:23.04``Erikahhh, okie
18:23.30``ErikI lost my password, so I asked them to delete the account (as that's the standard passwd recovery), but they never did it :/
18:24.57brlcadactually, freenode has an account "expiration" policy
18:25.03brlcadthey'll reset the password for you
18:26.54brlcadsusan would probably do it quick enough (hedgemage)
18:27.15``Erikhuh, the dude I talked to (months ago) said he had to delete, and said he'd do it immediately :/
18:27.30``Erikno such nick o.O
18:28.02brlcadsleeping
18:28.24``ErikO.O people sign off when they sleep? *boggle*
18:28.34brlcadi know, crazy talk
18:29.45brlcadthere's plenty that might: /who freenode/staff/*
18:31.32brlcadcourse I know many of them so it might just be familiarity affecting their willingness
18:33.03brlcadwoot, five minutes
18:48.40brlcadbeautiful
18:49.25``Erikthey haven't stated the expected docking time...
18:55.04``Erikah, excellent, thunder, lightening and rain
18:55.28``Erikso much for bbq
18:57.57Twingyeverytime I build something I get spammed with pkg_delete: package apsfilter-7.2.6 has no origin recorded
18:59.01``Erikum, that means it was aborted during the 'register' phase
18:59.37``Erikcd path/to/apsfilter && make build deinstall reinstall clean
19:01.46Twingythx
19:02.17Twingythis upgrade process is taking longer than anticipated
19:02.25Twingyso many errors and breakage
19:03.08Twingybtw
19:03.15Twingystill gives me the pkg_delete: package apsfilter-7.2.6 has no origin recorded
19:03.56``Eriko.O um, is /var/db/pkg/apsfilter-7.2.6/+CONTENTS damaged ?
19:04.20Twingy0 lines
19:04.23Twingyblow it away?
19:04.50Twingythat fixed things
19:05.23``Erikdid you do the reinstall thing on it?
19:05.28Twingyyes
19:05.34``Erikand still 0 lines? odd
19:05.42Twingylibexec/ld-elf.so.1: Shared object "libglib-2.0.so.600" not found, required by "orbit-idl-2"
19:05.51Twingythat's Orbit2 right?
19:06.04``ErikI think
19:06.30``Erikneither of my home boxes have apsfilter installed...
19:06.58Twingyit's for interfacing my laser printer
19:07.28``Erikah, if I had it, I'd give you my manifest files... but I don't, so *shrug*
19:07.34``Erikno files in there should be zero length
19:08.23``Erikwhen you make install, it uses the data from pkg-plist to generate the +CONTENTS file, so it can do a pkg_delete
19:09.18Twingythat snickers commercial cracks me up
19:09.52*** join/#brlcad ibot (i=ibot@pdpc/supporter/active/TimRiker/bot/apt)
19:09.52*** topic/#brlcad is http://brlcad.org/ || BRL-CAD is an open source solid modeling software suite || Developers needed! Read the HACKING file for details on getting involved
19:12.52brlcaddamn, the dad on american chopper just easily benchpressed 405 lbs
19:13.14Twingyhe lifts all day long
19:14.12brlcadpretty impresseive especially for his age..
19:15.11brlcadsays he tries to work out about three times a week
19:16.13Twingymaybe he's on roids
19:16.18Twingyhe always has a bad temper
19:29.29Twingyinstall: /usr/X11R6/lib/libgtk-x11-2.0.so.0: Too many levels of symbolic links
19:30.11``Erikerm, you're not trying to install your hand-built 2.9 into the place where 2.8 goes, are you?
19:30.25Twingyno
19:30.39``Erikoh, ok.. weird, what'd you do to that poor machine? :)
19:30.48TwingyI used ports *shrug*
19:31.15TwingyI guess 2.8.20 wasn't tested much
19:31.20``Erik<-- has never heard of anyone having so many issues o.O :)
19:31.31Twingymost people don't install as much stuff as me either
19:31.33``Erikmy 2.8.20 install seems to be working fine
19:31.38TwingyI've got some 200-300 packages installed
19:31.50Twingymost people install like 40-50 packages
19:32.34Twingylike I said *most*
19:32.51``ErikI think most people who use fbsd as a desktop are in around 300...
19:33.02``Erikgnome and kde both glob loads of crap on
19:33.23Twingymost people don't use fbsd as a desktop env afaik
19:33.28``Eriknow I only have like 50 leaf packages...
19:34.01``Erik'pointyhat' installs all of everything at some point of it's run...
19:34.37``Eriknow a lot of ports don't clean up after themselves nicely... so once in a rare while, I do a pkg_delete -a and start installing stuff fresh...
19:34.42Twingyif this bombs I think I'll just hold out and install 6.1 on the new box
19:35.05``Erikwhich is as much to get rid of pkgs I don't use anymore as to clean cruft...
19:35.07Twingywas hoping to get some development time in today
19:35.34Twingyspent 5 hours last night and 4 hours today trying to get gtk upgraded
19:35.55``Erikdamn...
19:36.48``Erikon which fbsd?
19:36.51Twingy6.0
19:36.53``ErikI can make package you a 7.0
19:37.00``Erikoh, I only have 6.1 and 7.0
19:37.22TwingyI installed 6.0 on a handful of machines when I moved into the house in nov '05
19:37.33TwingyI had to do a -Rauskf
19:38.39``Erikuhhhhh, -f is, uh, bad mojo
19:38.48``Erik-k, too
19:38.58Twingyyep
19:39.09Twingyhence this taking so long
19:39.21Twingysome combination of the ports I am using is causing bad mojo
19:39.42``Erikdo you have pkg_cutleaves installed?
19:39.49Twingyno
19:40.14``Erikoh, if you did, you could give me the pkg_cutleaves -l output and I could try to emulate it on shiva or nifleim tomorrow
19:40.43``Erikit could just be that something oopsed at some point and chucnks of your system have been broken-ish *shrug*
19:40.43Twingynot worth your time
19:40.52TwingyI'm sure you have more important things to accomplish at work
19:41.33``Erikhah
19:41.38``ErikI'm mandated otherwise.
19:41.52``Erikactually, I got that metaballs thing I could do
19:43.18Twingyok, here goes another install
19:43.30``Erikheh, concerning your, um, new office? :)
19:43.42Twingyshow and tell
19:43.48Twingysame problem
19:44.05Twingy/usr/bin/install -c -o root -g wheel .libs/libgtk-x11-2.0.so.0T /usr/X11R6/lib/libgtk-x11-2.0.so.0
19:44.06Twingyinstall: /usr/X11R6/lib/libgtk-x11-2.0.so.0: Too many levels of symbolic links
19:44.06Twingy*** Error code 71
19:44.20``Erikis it like a symlink to itself?
19:45.39Twingyhrm
19:45.40Twingyok
19:45.42Twingyplan B
19:45.47Twingydeinstall everything
19:45.49Twingyin ports
19:45.51Twingyand start over
19:46.02Twingymake deinstall in /usr/ports ?
19:48.28``Erikpkg_delete -a
19:48.38Twingytoo late :)
19:48.48``Erikthen look through /usr/local and /usr/X11R6 for things that can be deleted safel
19:48.49``Eriky
19:48.57``Erikmake deinstall in /usr/ports will take a long long long time
19:49.02Twingyyep
19:49.04``Erikif you REALLY wanted to be fast
19:49.06Twingyspecially over nfs
19:49.12``Erikrm -rf /usr/local /usr/X11R6 /var/db/pkg/*
19:49.13Twingywireless nfs
19:49.21Twingynah
19:49.34Twingyif I'm not up and running in the next 2 hours I will hold off until I get my new computer tomorrow
19:49.40Twingyinstall 6.1 on both compys
19:49.43Twingyand go from there
19:49.51Twingythe file server is running 6.0 nice and happily
19:50.37``Erikbut I'm a bit more apt to hack on kernel and userland system
19:52.43``ErikI'm thinkin' ruby is right for this problem... I've been flopping on language for months, heh
19:53.04Twingyspoken like a true computer scientist
20:23.39TwingyI plugged in my external usb 2.0 plextor CDRW
20:23.46Twingyand /dev/cd0 .. /dev/cd7 popped up
20:24.02Twingyburncd works with none of them
20:24.24Twingyand Mac OSX requires special software to burn on non-apple cdrw's
20:24.34Twingyfar from a turn-key solution
20:26.03brlcad"non-apple cdrw"?  apple doesn't sell cdrw's
20:26.13Twingyinternal ones rather
20:26.22Twingyi.e I plug this cdrom drive in
20:26.26brlcadthe older macs don't handle cdr+ discs
20:26.28Twingyand I don't get a fancy burn icon
20:26.37brlcad(like the Ti books)
20:26.41brlcadnewer ones do though
20:26.49Twingythese are cdr- I believe
20:27.05TwingyI know I can burn them when the cdrw internal drive worked on the ti-books
20:27.05brlcadsame for cd+rw vs cd-rw
20:27.19Twingythese are the same cd's I used to burn internally with the ti-book
20:27.41Twingyit's just very selective about what drives it provides for burning capabilities
20:28.12TwingyI've also never gotten burncd to work in fbsd before
20:30.06Twingyit'll write about 1.3MB then spit out input/output error
20:30.15Twingyat speed 1
20:30.19Twingy1x recording
20:30.38Twingybut it'll fixate it just fine for 2 minutes
20:32.20brlcadweird
20:32.33brlcadsome buffer getting underrun/stalled for some reason perhaps
20:35.29*** join/#brlcad IriX64 (n=IriX64@toronto-HSE-ppp4303376.sympatico.ca)
20:35.48Twingyxcdroast doesn't seem to play nicely with it either
20:37.46``Erik<PROTECTED>
20:37.55``Eriknothing out of dmesg?
20:38.28Twingyacd0: DVDR <ATAPI DVD RW 8XMax/160D> at ata0-slave UDMA33
20:38.34Twingycd0 at umass-sim0 bus 0 target 0 lun 0
20:38.34Twingycd0: <PLEXTOR DVDR   PX-716A 1.01> Removable CD-ROM SCSI-0 device
20:38.34Twingycd0: 40.000MB/s transfers
20:38.34Twingycd0: cd present [1 x 2048 byte records]
20:38.40Twingyfor both cdrw's
20:39.29``Erikand youre line is something like "burncd -f /dev/acd0 data mydisk.iso fixate" ?
20:39.34``Eriks/e//
20:39.41Twingyjup
20:39.48TwingyI through in a -s1 for good measure
20:39.51Twingy*threw
20:40.00Twingywrite 1312kB
20:40.04Twingythen input/output error
20:40.13Twingythen red blinky light
20:40.15Twingyfixating
20:40.19``Eriktried -d ?
20:40.33Twingytrying xcdroast now
20:40.39``Erikthe machine is more or less unloaded when you do this, right?
20:40.51Twingyseems to see the plextor
20:40.54``ErikI think
20:40.56Twingybut not other drive
20:41.04Twingyyes
20:41.49``Erikdone a send-pr of the problem?
20:42.41Twingyno
20:43.39``Erikodd... I haven't burnt a cd in bsd in quite a while, so mebbe they broke it since my last successful use... but someone else woulda noticed for sure if it was really broken...
20:45.28Twingyheh
20:45.37TwingyI haven't used xcdroast since 1996 when I burned like 50 cd's
20:45.43``Erikare you doing some kinda tweak or tune to your machines? or are they 'out of the box'?
20:45.52Twingyout of the box
20:46.09``Erik:/
20:58.47IriX64xcdroast -e for examine work?
20:59.44IriX64i'll shutup. :)
21:01.33IriX64no freaking clue what libc_iname is sposed to be or where it goes... sigh.
21:02.37IriX64ill just void libc_iname(void){} and at least itll link. sigh.
21:03.29Twingynorth korea just fired 3 missiles
21:03.48IriX64you better be joking.
21:03.54Twingynegative
21:04.00IriX64at who?
21:04.03IriX64s k
21:04.09Twingytesting, check cnn.com
21:04.22IriX64scared the pants off me thanks.
21:05.26IriX64hate ppl trying to see how big a bang they can make.
21:05.47IriX64that did it it links now.
21:06.16IriX64btw am i welcome here im trying to build a brlcad.
21:06.34Twingyhm?
21:06.44IriX64mh?
21:06.58Twingywere you askinga question or making a statement?
21:07.06IriX64question.
21:07.16IriX64forgot the ?
21:07.20IriX64mark
21:07.32brlcadis there a reason for you to not be welcome?
21:07.37IriX64im not quite sure what this channel is for.
21:07.49brlcadsaid it yesterday
21:08.02IriX64well no but some channels are picky.
21:08.09IriX64developers and help?
21:08.27IriX64i have a damaged memory.
21:08.33brlcadif there was a brl-cad in-depth talk going on, it would take precedence over off-topic chit chat, but there's not right now so whatever
21:08.44brlcadotherwise, anything related to brl-cad
21:08.48IriX64thankyou.
21:08.58Twingythank you is two words :)
21:09.04IriX64so what the fark is libc_iname.
21:09.09IriX64hah so it is.
21:09.26IriX64in vdeck.exe for example
21:10.23brlcadlibc is the standard c library, that could be a lot of things
21:10.40IriX64Sc.c line 139 and othewrs assignment makes integer from pointer without a cast.
21:11.16brlcadtis a warning, and yes there are a lot of those
21:11.20IriX64but its an undefined reference to a function....ah wait i see.. thanks.
21:11.27IriX64libc i mean.
21:15.45Twingysweet
21:15.55Twingygot my external usb2.0 plextor working with xcdroast
21:16.06Twingywriting at 25x no less
21:16.16Twingymake that 28x
21:17.03Twingysustaining at 40x
21:17.47Twingyavg speed was 30x, hrm good deal
21:18.47Twingyfirst cd I ever burned in fbsd, heh
21:19.35Twingyamd64 done, time for i386
21:25.14Twingy1024x768 requires too many virtual workspaces
21:28.35Twingy1680x1050 even
21:29.24Twingy$500 less than apple
21:29.34IriX6420? shouldnt that be 21"
21:29.45Twingy20.1"
21:29.52IriX64:)
21:30.19TwingyI used to have a pair of 1280x1024 lcd's
21:30.25Twingybut they fizzled out
21:31.11Twingyso I can easily adapt to 1680x1050
21:33.47TwingyI should work on finishing the paint job in the garage :|
21:33.56IriX641024x768 is my limit, my eyes wont take any finer.
21:34.17Twingysean and erik like higher the better
21:34.32IriX64must be young :/
21:34.45``Erikand I run dual 1920x1200 at work
21:34.54``Erik1600x1200 on my 21" crt at home
21:35.07TwingyI on the other hand am quite content with 1024x768 unless I'm doing development work, then I would like 3 or 4 1024x768 screens
21:35.19brlcader, i suppose "better than average" is more appropriate than perfect
21:35.34IriX64must be nice to be in hardware candy shop.
21:35.58IriX64i type with two figers thats why im slow.
21:36.21``Erikheh...
21:36.28Twingyat higher resolutions I put too much stress on my eyes unless EVERYTHING is big font
21:36.50Twingybut usually you come across apps that don't cater to high resolutions
21:36.56Twingyand it causes my eyes to wig out
21:37.10Twingythere's always those apps that only have 1 font size
21:37.35``Erikheh, dont' use 'em? :D nothing I use has that issue... :/
21:37.44``Erikafaik... other than games, which switch the resolution anyways
21:40.03Twingyhrm
21:41.22Twingyanother 2GB for win2k for CCS compiler
21:43.15IriX64CCS?
21:43.28IriX64cross compiling system?
21:44.24Twingyfor programming PIC microchips
21:44.37Twingybest compiler for them imho
21:44.44Twingyworth booting into windows for
21:44.49IriX64ah
21:54.18Twingyinstall time
22:54.46IriX64Roland the headless Thompson gunner ... thats music :)
22:59.25IriX64there we go job done 1280x1024 pixels in operation
22:59.44IriX64my eyes are *not this good :)
23:00.29IriX64on the fly programming hehehe.
Jeff Waugh - find it at freshmeat.net! Modified by Tim Riker to work with blootbot logs, split per channel, etc. irclog2html for #brlcad on 20060705

irclog2html for #brlcad on 20060705

01:17.33*** join/#brlcad IriX64 (n=IriX64@toronto-HSE-ppp4310781.sympatico.ca)
01:17.34IriX64blugh...disconnected.
01:17.57IriX64ill see you people tommorow.
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15:02.49CIA-9BRL-CAD: 03lbutler * 10brlcad/sh/ (prior.psql prior.sh): scripts to collect data from gforge tasks
15:54.55CIA-9BRL-CAD: 03lbutler * 10brlcad/sh/prior.psql: expanded select so that names of the developers are included with the tasks
17:14.45CIA-9BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/HACKING: gah, the horrirs. spell sentance correctlay
17:28.12``Erik"special" :)
17:36.54ValarQ?
17:40.18*** join/#brlcad IriX64 (n=IriX64@toronto-HSE-ppp4310781.sympatico.ca)
17:41.28IriX64was trying to ftp send to ftp.brlcad.org got only 12kbps and it aborted anyway, go figure.
17:46.36IriX64whoever put that geometry browser in mged knew what they were doing :)
17:49.11IriX64the enterprise and shuttlecraft are beautiful.
17:55.52ValarQhow usable is 'sketch'?
18:16.22ValarQand how stable is brlcad considered to be on amd64?
18:19.10IriX64on my amd64 it is very stable.
18:19.21IriX64what os?
18:19.31SWPadnoslee-nucks :)
18:19.42IriX64nyuk :)
18:19.43SWPadnoshow about SMP?
18:19.54ValarQgentoo GNU/Linux
18:19.59IriX64symetrical multiprocessing? ;)
18:20.05SWPadnosoh, thanks ;)
18:20.07ValarQyes
18:20.15ValarQi got 2cpus
18:20.22SWPadnosbtw - do you actually have an Irix system?
18:20.33IriX64my secret :)
18:20.38SWPadnosheh
18:20.41IriX64linux64?
18:20.49SWPadnosI have an Indigo2 / R10k
18:21.06IriX64i have the enterprise system :)
18:21.15SWPadnoslucky you
18:21.28IriX64now if it would only fly :)
18:21.32ValarQIriX64: yeah, my entire system is 64bit
18:21.36SWPadnosand transport :)
18:21.41IriX64heh
18:21.50IriX64is linux64 stable?
18:21.54SWPadnosvery
18:21.58IriX64for you?
18:22.03SWPadnosmore stable than any other common 64-bit OS :)
18:22.05SWPadnosyes
18:22.18SWPadnosnot on my Indigo, on my dual opteron
18:22.25IriX64brlcad64 coming up ;)
18:22.42SWPadnosI wonder how long it would take to compile on my Opteron rig
18:23.07IriX64on my system it take 45 minutes with another ten for make install.
18:23.49SWPadnosok - is that the giant server with 32 R14k CPUs, or something that mere mortals might have?
18:24.54IriX64i *am a mere mortal.
18:24.59SWPadnosoh ;)
18:25.06IriX64;)
18:28.17ValarQis it possible and if so how do i make an extrude on an NMG shape or sketch?
18:31.12IriX64im not a sophisticated use yet :)
18:31.17IriX64user too
18:31.52ValarQok :(
18:32.13IriX64these others tho get with it :)
19:18.41brlcadValarQ: yes to the 64bit question and SMP support, it's a fundamental on the geometry library
19:20.09brlcadValarQ: compile should take "less than an hour" depending on which Opteron -- my guess would be about 10-15 minutes for most chips
19:20.49brlcadquickest way to make a sketch is the type "make sketch" in the command window, it will create an empty sketch (which is of course useless) ;)
19:21.36brlcadmore practical is to then open that sketch in the sketch editor which is accessed either via the misc menu iirc or on the Edit menu
19:22.10brlcadif you already have a sketch, it's trivial to extrude .. "make extrude" will get you started
19:24.05ValarQok
19:26.17IriX64multiple definition of ___do_sjlj_init ? *WHY?
19:27.00IriX64libz.so crtstuff.c no such fiole what gives?
19:27.16IriX64file too.
19:27.24ValarQbrlcad: 'make foo.s extrude'  just kills mged
19:27.45ValarQbrlcad: then when i fire up mged again 'e foo.s' almost kills my machine
19:30.35ValarQand 'gdb mged core' doesn't give me much ("Cannot access memory at address 0x2b5f32dbd988")
19:43.49brlcadhmmm
19:44.50ValarQexactly what i was saying
19:45.28``Erikand the bt?
19:46.14ValarQbt?
19:46.26brlcadahh, so it does crash.. *ahem*
19:46.35``Erikbacktrace
19:46.41brlcadthat's not the right syntax for what it's worth
19:46.58``Erikeh?
19:47.11brlcadinfinite loops until the stack is blown
19:47.29ValarQ``Erik: i get no backtrace
19:47.45``Erik"no backtrace" as in lots of question marks, or?
19:48.22brlcadi have a backtrace, looking at it
19:48.33``Erikaight *shrug*
19:49.57ValarQ(gdb) bt
19:49.57ValarQ#0  0x00002b7350302843 in ?? ()
19:50.09ValarQthats all
19:50.32brlcadValarQ: the make command was the wrong command to tell you, use the "in" command
19:51.02brlcadmake creates a "prototypical"/example extrusion object (and clearly has some bug), that wouldn't have been extremely useful anyways
19:52.23ValarQok
19:52.35ValarQwhat is H, A and B?
19:52.43ValarQ(and K for that matter)
19:52.48brlcadthe crash has to do with it creating an empty sketch.. tries drawing a wireframe of that
19:53.07ValarQok, i can see how it fails to do that :)
19:53.11brlcadheight vector and uniform A/B cross vectors
19:53.28brlcadK is the step size
19:53.51brlcadthat is, it lets you do more than simple extrusions, you can extrude in different scaling directions
19:54.08brlcadsimplest is to use 0 0 1 for H, and 1 0 0 and 0 1 0 for A and B
19:54.16brlcadplay with different K values
19:54.32brlcadK is basically how much to extrude
19:55.07ValarQok, thanks for the help
20:17.26IriX64Elapsed compilation time:  42 minutes,  32 seconds on an amd64 2.4ghz system ValarQ.
20:21.04brlcadthat's a little slow..
20:21.12brlcadfor that system
20:21.27IriX64--enable-everything.
20:21.32brlcadoptimized?
20:21.36IriX64yes
20:21.51brlcadah, optimized will slow it down a variable amount
20:22.00IriX64summat. :)
20:22.01brlcadgcc's not the hottest on amd64
20:22.16brlcad(at least not yet)
20:22.22IriX64not many are ;)
20:23.39IriX64am i breaking any law trying to upload binaries to ftp.brlcad.org? orrules or anything?
20:25.16IriX64~400 meg file and i was only getting 12k/s and it aborted anyway.
20:30.38brlcadthat's insanely oversized
20:31.01brlcadsounds like fully-static binaries or something
20:32.28brlcadno, you're not breaking the law, it's our server -- if you were providing them on a website or something similar, you'd technically be obligated to provide source as well perhaps
20:34.27``Erik*yawn*
20:34.40IriX64thankyou
20:34.48``Erikpr for fbsd ports is submitted and binary packages uploaded to sf... booyeah
20:34.52brlcadthe 12k/s sounds like a problem on your end
20:35.05IriX64yah prolly.
20:36.09IriX64``Erik how long usually to posting for public?
20:36.10``Erikyou got anonftp upload on a machine with that tiny of a disk, dude?
20:36.22``Erikirix64: what do you mean? the binaries on sf? or the pr for ports?
20:36.39IriX64binaries.
20:36.45``Erikthey're already available
20:36.53IriX64ty
20:37.08brlcad``Erik: surprisingly anon isn't used much at all
20:37.08``Erikhttp://sourceforge.net/project/showfiles.php?group_id=105292&package_id=113558
20:37.23brlcadinteresting to see some of the junk that gets uploaded
20:37.30``Erikerm... I hope you don't permitted real accounts to ftp plain...
20:37.37``Eriks/ed//
20:37.41IriX64do you know what i tried to upload?
20:37.45brlcaduhm
20:37.49brlcadof course not
20:38.06IriX64used my name in the email address password.
20:38.08brlcadif you try, it gives you the boot
20:38.17``Erikbefore password?
20:38.28brlcadooh, IriX64 ...
20:38.36brlcadheh, i might have firewalled you
20:39.12IriX64what can i do sympatico insists on using your name in e-mail address well they used to anyway and im a long time member.
20:39.40IriX64shouldnt that be stonewalled? :)
20:40.40IriX64beautifull tank car from geometric solutions, someday i hope to be able to draw this well :)
20:40.54brlcadahh, yes.. it was you
20:40.56brlcadconnection from toronto-HSE-ppp4310781.sympatico.ca (69.159.35.87)
20:41.03IriX64thats me.
20:41.21brlcadthere were a ton of failed ftp timeout attempts coming from there
20:41.37brlcadlooked like it was stuck in some app loop, so I killed it
20:42.00IriX64last night i tried to leave it transferring and i  got disconnected and my client keeps trying. shouldnt have trusted it and gone to bed.
20:42.25IriX64ill be carefull now.
20:42.37brlcadyeah, it tried a couple hundred connections
20:42.43brlcadyou're unblocked
20:43.11IriX64and thanks.
20:43.43brlcadmeh
20:43.49brlcadnews does
20:44.15brlcadchangelog is for devs, they can figure it out
20:44.56``Erikand the changelog overflows 80 and has LOTS of unnecessary newlines o.O
20:50.16CIA-9BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/HACKING: fold the Changelog to column 80 as part of the release steps to make Sourceforge display less evil
20:52.11IriX64rendering to the tube how slick, you guys really got it right.
20:52.51brlcad"to the tube"?
20:52.59IriX64screen.
20:53.05brlcadah
20:53.24IriX64old school :)
20:56.34IriX64i better not turn it upside down, it'll drain all over my desk. :)
20:56.59IriX64ah no it wont the hatch is closed.
20:57.51IriX64raytrace complete lets get back to coding, see you people later.
21:00.41brlcadsometimes best to just not ask
21:12.21ValarQoh, ok then
21:16.47brlcadValarQ: that wasn't meant for you :)
21:17.22ValarQyay :)
21:18.44ValarQnot that i have anything to ask, i still working to get comfortable with mged
21:25.01CIA-9BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/librt/g_extrude.c: (log message trimmed)
21:25.01CIA-9BRL-CAD: prevent crashing when trying to draw extrude primitives that use empty sketch
21:25.01CIA-9BRL-CAD: primitives. simple statements like 'make x extrude' could cause this as well as
21:25.01CIA-9BRL-CAD: using any (default) empty sketch. the wireframe drawing routing was getting
21:25.01CIA-9BRL-CAD: stuck in an infinite loop allocating memory adding empty vlist items to the mged
21:25.04CIA-9BRL-CAD: display list due to the comparison against a negative decrementing index. the
21:25.06CIA-9BRL-CAD: code now checks for the empty sketch condition and informs the user. clean up
21:25.44brlcadmessage slightly trimmed. "clean up the code a bit in the process, e.g. do something about a couple always-true if statements..  thanks ValarQ for finding this bug."
21:30.48ValarQis it posible to select primitives from the mged shell?
21:31.12brlcadyes, sed primitivename
21:31.28brlcadanything you do in the gui can be done on the command line
21:32.04brlcadValarQ: have you seen the MGED Quick Reference sheet?  that might help learn some of the commands
21:33.13ValarQyes, didn't found sed thought, maybe i missed it
21:35.09brlcadunder the Editing Geometry sectino
21:35.44ValarQyep, only me not reading my documentation like i should
21:35.47brlcadunderstandable, as mged's concept of selecting an object implies entering an edit mode
21:36.13ValarQlike vi, i'll feel right at home :)
21:37.53brlcadheh
21:38.37brlcadif you like vi, mged has a vi-mode command line edit style (akin to bash's vi mode and other shells)
21:43.21ValarQit's not that critical, i actually use a quite unholy combination of editors
21:45.06CIA-9BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/NEWS:
21:45.06CIA-9BRL-CAD: prevent crashing mged when trying to draw extrude primitives that use empty sketch primitives.
21:45.06CIA-9BRL-CAD: simple statements like 'make x extrude' could cause this as well as using any (default) empty sketch.
21:45.06CIA-9BRL-CAD: the wireframe drawing routing was getting stuck in an infinite loop allocating memory adding empty vlist items to the mged display list due to the comparison against a negative decrementing index.
21:45.09CIA-9BRL-CAD: the code now checks for the empty sketch condition and informs the user. thanks to ValarQ for finding this bug.
22:01.34ValarQops, "ERROR: NULL struct resource pointer, file db5_comb.c, line 510"
22:01.52brlcadyeesh
22:02.26brlcadhow'd you get there?
22:02.43ValarQi tried to clone an object
22:02.46brlcadahhhh
22:03.01ValarQmaybe i didn't specify the name correctly
22:03.06brlcadthe clone command does not currently work on v5 geometry databases, that's a new command
22:03.12ValarQok
22:03.13brlcadit only works on v4 ones at the moment
22:03.21brlcadunfortunately
22:03.24brlcadit's a great command
22:03.30ValarQmaybe you understand my amd64 question now :)
22:03.56brlcadnot sure, that problem isn't amd64-specific..
22:04.04brlcadneither was the other :)
22:04.24ValarQno, i just started to suspect something like that
22:04.53brlcadbrl-cad is pretty pervasively multiplatform.. if something isn't working right it almost guaranteed to be a bonefide cross-platform logic bug of some sort
22:05.31ValarQwhat languages is it written in? only C and tcl?
22:06.14brlcadat the moment, primarily C
22:06.33brlcadthe mged and archer modelers are written in tcl/tk and itcl/itk
22:06.59brlcadthere are several C++ projects under way as well, but not in the core atm
22:07.39brlcadthere's actually a couple resources, such as the benchmark suite, that are written in posix bourne shell
22:07.42ValarQok, there isn't many C++ source files in the cvs head
22:08.08brlcadas well as a simple geometry database server written in php for web apps, and a java JNI interface for interacting with the raytrace library
22:08.38brlcadyeah, most of the c++ work is in other modules and a couple not in CVS yet
22:09.10brlcadthe next generation solid modeler interface will be written primarily in C++
22:09.39ValarQbut the core will remain C?
22:10.29brlcadthat's the current plan
22:11.08brlcadthe long long term plan is to have a C++ library layer that will eventually subsume the C core where it makes sense
22:11.37ValarQok, big move to C++ then
22:11.58brlcad"eventually", that's very long term
22:12.00ValarQno plans to use any higher level languages then?
22:12.39brlcadthere are, that same core written in C++ is extensively plugin-based with support for multiple higher level execution cores
22:13.16ValarQsounds good
22:13.17brlcadcurrently planning on python, tcl, and shell, possibly considering lisp and perl down the road
22:13.28brlcad(from the onset)
22:13.51ValarQscheme would be nice :)
22:14.08brlcadheh, everyone has a favorite :)
22:14.20brlcadthat'll be hugely driven by developer interest
22:14.47brlcadif someone wants to pick up ML or Smalltalk and they're involved enough, I certainly wouldn't object ;)
22:15.26brlcadI'm just not going to think about them much without getting the higher-impact ones done first
22:15.56brlcadlisp/scheme would both be good since it could capture some of the autocad background
22:17.17ValarQi'm a bit concerned...
22:17.31brlcadnot looking to create an academic project for the sake of language coolness, the user community is coming in with specific experience that we'd like to leverage of course where possible
22:17.38*** join/#brlcad Lapo (n=kvirc@81-208-74-176.ip.fastwebnet.it)
22:17.44LapoHi all :-D
22:17.46brlcadconcerned with?
22:17.47ValarQi know many of those languages has good C bindings but poor bindings for OOP languages like C++
22:18.22ValarQbut that might be an effect of using C++ OOP-tools in the API
22:18.40brlcadValarQ: from a plugin-system perspective, all the higher level languages can be treated as scoped/classed/namespaced command sets
22:18.57brlcadhowdy Lapo
22:19.06ValarQi know for example that it's extremely easy to write Haskell wrappers for C libraries but not so easy for C++
22:19.20Lapohey op ;-)
22:19.49brlcadValarQ: true, though that is really mitigated by the architecture in other ways
22:20.00Lapothis is a very "intelectual" conversation :-D
22:20.20ValarQwell, i can start worrying about it when i start coding it :)
22:20.34brlcadplain C wrappers would work just fine too as most all of the commands are striving to be transaction-based and mostly stateless
22:20.41ValarQLapo: nah, not "very" :)
22:21.01Lapoyes , to me... ;-)
22:21.39LapoGuys I have a little problem about brlcad
22:21.48Lapomaybe you can help me...
22:21.55LapoI'm a big nood -.-
22:22.14brlcadsome services such as geometry services will be client/server based so the higher-level commands won't really need to worry about C++ per-se for a large portion of operations
22:23.45ValarQusing the old trusted unixmethod called pipes then :)
22:24.03brlcadfor a lot of functionality yes ;)
22:24.34brlcadbrl-cad already has over 400 commands that do a huge variety of functionality (that is not exposed by mged even now)
22:24.56Lapoehm...
22:24.59brlcadthose become plugins in the new system almost unmodified so they can be leveraged without rewriting a million lines of code
22:25.12brlcadLapo: best to just ask your question instead of asking if you can ask..
22:25.12ValarQLapo: just throw the question at brlcad
22:25.21Lapook
22:25.23brlcad~ask
22:25.24ibotQuestions in the channel should be specific, informative, complete, concise, and on-topic.  Don't ask if you can ask a quesiton first.  Don't ask if a person is there, just ask what you intended to ask them.  Better questions more frequently yield better answers.  We are all here voluntarily.  See also http://catb.org/~esr/faqs/smart-questions.html
22:25.41Lapoouch sorry guys
22:25.46brlcadno problem ;)
22:25.58brlcadeveryone's allowed a freebie or two
22:26.16Lapothis is my problem when I start mged:
22:26.47LapoInitializing and backgrounding, please wait...mged: symbol lookup error: mg
22:27.01Lapoed: undefined symbol: Tk_CreateCanvasBezierType
22:27.08ValarQbetter get some sleep, it's getting rather late over here...
22:27.10brlcadah
22:27.14Lapo(please don't kill me)
22:27.16ValarQbye folks
22:27.21brlcadValarQ: nice chatting with you
22:27.22brlcadcheers
22:27.27Lapobye ValarQ
22:27.56brlcadLapo: you're linking against a system Tk (or at least lacking libtclcad)
22:28.12brlcadyou compiled brl-cad yourself?
22:28.42Lapono
22:28.56brlcadodd, where'd you get the binary from?
22:29.39LapoI got the tar.gz from the web site , then unpacked it
22:30.05Lapothen compiled , and then I've copied in /usr/brlcad
22:30.42Lapoprobably this is not the right way X-)
22:30.44brlcadwhich tar.gz
22:31.03brlcadso you did compile brl-cad yourself..
22:31.42Lapobrlcad-7.6.0_linux_ia32.tar.bz2
22:32.42brlcadokay, so you didn't compile, you unpacked.. installed to /usr/brlcad
22:32.48brlcaddo you have a LD_LIBRARY_PATH set?
22:32.50Laporight....
22:33.27LapoIt seems it does not exist
22:33.41brlcadecho $LD_LIBRARY_PATH
22:33.58Lapoyes, but it return an empty string
22:34.05Laposo I think it doesn't exist
22:34.20brlcadk
22:34.26brlcadhmm..
22:34.51brlcadany particular reason you're useing 7.6.0 and not 7.8.0?
22:35.35LapoI got that file some month ago but I can download newer version
22:35.49brlcadyeah, that would help
22:35.58brlcada ton of stuff has changed and improved
22:36.20LapoI hope installation is easier now :-D
22:36.42LapoI'm a mechanical engineer and wish to use the program
22:37.57Lapothanks for the help, see you ;-)
22:38.38*** part/#brlcad Lapo (n=kvirc@81-208-74-176.ip.fastwebnet.it)
22:58.20CIA-9BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/librt/g_extrude.c: unbreak the wireframe drawing logic.. something wierd is still going on. also, try even harder to avoid crashing on a bad index by making sure we don't index past the bn_vlist points array.
23:25.07CIA-9BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/librt/g_extrude.c: oop, remove the ifdef block since testing is done
23:29.51*** join/#brlcad PrezKennedy (n=Apathy@c-68-33-243-45.hsd1.md.comcast.net)
Jeff Waugh - find it at freshmeat.net! Modified by Tim Riker to work with blootbot logs, split per channel, etc. irclog2html for #brlcad on 20060706

irclog2html for #brlcad on 20060706

00:53.40*** join/#brlcad IriX64 (n=IriX64@toronto-HSE-ppp4310781.sympatico.ca)
00:59.12Twingynew pc bbl
01:05.52*** join/#brlcad DTRemenak (n=DTRemena@c-24-23-59-104.hsd1.ca.comcast.net)
03:36.14*** join/#brlcad MarcC|afk (i=MarcC@ukiah-cuda1-gen2-70-36-18-129.losaca.adelphia.net)
04:10.12IriX64bbiab
04:11.08*** join/#brlcad IriX64 (n=mario_du@toronto-HSE-ppp4310781.sympatico.ca)
04:11.16IriX64back
06:17.22*** join/#brlcad varsendaggr (n=varsenda@67-42-224-119.blng.qwest.net)
06:17.34varsendaggrhey anyone here?
06:20.16varsendaggranyone get this running on a debian ?   ie ubuntu?
07:10.33*** join/#brlcad CIA-2 (i=cia@cia.navi.cx)
08:04.30*** join/#brlcad SWPadnos_ (n=Me@dsl245.esjtvtli.sover.net)
10:14.42brlcadvarsendaggr: any particular question, or just taking census?
12:52.17*** join/#brlcad archivist (n=archivis@host217-35-76-52.in-addr.btopenworld.com)
14:34.42varsendaggrbrlcad, nah i just was wondering if there getting brlcad running on a debian machine is easy.   i tried a while back and i had a hard time of it, however i now know more about everythign
14:42.01varsendaggrwow brlcad is 42 mb
14:42.47cradekI had trouble with autoconf on breezy but it worked fine on dapper
14:42.58cradekcompiling cvs head of a couple days ago
14:43.33cradekI guess if you use a source release (which I never found) it avoids the autoconf problems because the configure script is already generated
14:44.51brlcadcradek: you didn't find the source release?? :)
14:45.27brlcadvarsendaggr: it should be fairly turn-key, though I rarely get a debian box to test on so minor issues might pop up
14:46.02varsendaggrohhh
14:46.04brlcadif gbs tools are all installed correctly, it should be a matter of ./autogen.sh && ./configure --enable-everything --enable-optimized && make
14:46.25cradekhmm I found brlcad.org, which talks about cvs
14:46.27brlcadthen of course sudo make install or what have you to install
14:46.32cradekbrlcad.com has releases for download
14:46.43cradekthat's odd
14:46.48brlcadcradek: follow the first link on brlcad.org
14:46.55varsendaggrgreat
14:47.00varsendaggrthe file is huge
14:47.14brlcadnot so huge for a CAD system.. ;)
14:48.09cradekbrlcad: ok, duh
14:49.01cradekbrlcad: on brlcad.org, none of the links jumped out at me as "how to get it" except for #6
14:49.20brlcadyeah the site really sucks..
14:49.33brlcadit's high on the todo list to make the site suck less
14:49.44cradekwell I didn't exactly say that
14:49.58cradekon brlcad.com I went right to "downloads"
14:50.38cradek(I don't understand why there are two completely different sites)
14:52.02``Erikheh
14:52.42``Erikbrlcad.org is owned and operated by the developers, brlcad.com is owned and operated by a company that makes money selling documentation and training for the software...
14:52.43``Erik:)
14:53.03cradekok, that explains it
14:54.19``Erikbrlcad, maybe we should put a "Get it"! link around the "project site" and "images&screenies" links that go to the sf files page?
14:54.52``Erikor put a note with thte project site link?
14:54.58cradekif that had been there, I would have built a release, not cvs head - which is probably what you want newbies like me to do
14:55.35``Erikcradek: did you look at the cvs tags before co'ing head?
14:55.41cradekno
14:55.58``Erik:)
14:56.01cradekhttp://brlcad.org/build_CVS.html
14:56.07cradekI followed the instructions...
14:56.52brlcadthose should work too
14:57.18brlcad``Erik: the entire site needs to be redone .. there's a lot more that just "how to get the source" that needs 'fixing'
14:57.34cradekyes but Ithink ``Erik was imlying I should have found a tag for the latest release
14:57.37brlcadand by fixing I mean things that involve a shotgun and the back end of a shed
14:57.51brlcadyeah, you could have used the last release tag
14:58.03brlcadthat would match the source downloads on sf.net
14:58.08cradekI understand
14:58.24brlcadhttp://sourceforge.net/project/showfiles.php?group_id=105292  is the "official" distributions
14:58.30cradekI actually thought I was being a "good newbie" by precisely following the instructions
14:58.47brlcadnothing wrong with the approach you took :)
14:59.08brlcadit's a debian-caveat that something is borked with the GBS tools :)
14:59.19brlcadthat's outside our domain/control
14:59.24cradekGBS?
14:59.30brlcadGNU Build System
14:59.36cradekoh autoconf stuff
14:59.39brlcadautoconf + automake + libtool + m4 etc
14:59.46cradeksure, sounds like that's not your problem
15:00.03brlcadgot to run.. back in a few
15:00.12cradekprobably by getting the right packages installed it would have worked, but it was easier for me to go to another machine
15:13.00cradekwhen I use g-dxf to get 3DFACEs (bag of triangles) how do I control the tesselation (how many triangles I get for say, a sphere)?
15:16.10cradekok I see there are some tolerances in the manpage
17:33.45``ErikO.o
17:38.43CIA-2BRL-CAD: 03erikgreenwald * 10brlcad/src/librt/ (g_extrude.c g_sketch.c g_xxx.c): we don't use cake anymore (comment fix)
17:49.00ValarQymp?
17:49.09brlcadthe cray y-mp comes to mind..
17:49.10SWPadnosthat's a Cray supercomputer, of course
17:49.32brlcadhe uploaded some cross-compiled binaries labelled as 'ymp'
17:49.41brlcadsomehow I doubt they are for a cray
17:51.44brlcadlooks like static-compiled windows 32-bit binaries
18:03.21SWPadnos"Yucky Microsoft Product"?
18:05.53brlcad:)
18:10.20ValarQSWPadnos: it's shorter just to say "Microsoft Product"
18:10.49SWPadnoswell, I had to use the Y also ;)
18:12.18ValarQyeah, my point is that it's an unlikely abbreviation :P
18:15.32SWPadnosindeed
18:56.50*** join/#brlcad IriX64 (n=IriX64@toronto-HSE-ppp4310781.sympatico.ca)
19:02.12IriX64./mged
19:02.27IriX64duh. :(
19:04.03IriX64low overhead scanline-per-cpu buffering <--- gotta love it.
19:06.26IriX64Frame  0:    900434 rays in 101.08 sec = 8908.13 rays/sec (Wallclock)
19:06.38IriX64raytrace complete.
19:06.45IriX64sweet.
19:06.59``Erikheh, which one is that?
19:07.05IriX64havoc
19:07.39IriX64nice and solid :)
19:09.00cradekFrame  0:     881047 rays   in     22.34 sec =     39442.32 rays/sec (wallclock)
19:09.12IriX64which one?
19:09.18cradekhey I figured out how to render something
19:09.21``ErikFrame  0:     264415 rays   in      1.44 sec =    183412.51 rays/sec (wallclock)
19:09.24cradekhavoc
19:09.25``Erikyou people have slow computers :(
19:09.34IriX64heh yeah.
19:09.57IriX642.4ghz sucks :)
19:10.07SWPadnosI suppose that depends on scene complexity
19:10.18IriX64and background.
19:10.26``Erikthe one I just ran on is 1.4ghz...
19:10.27IriX64colour i mean.
19:10.47ValarQIriX64: they don't suck when there are 64 of them in a cluster :P
19:10.49IriX64yah ``Erik with your 16 cpus :)
19:10.53``Erik12
19:10.58IriX64heh
19:11.05``Erikand, actually, I have a 4cpu 2.0ghz one that I THINK might be a hair faster
19:11.08``Erikbut brlcad crashes on it
19:11.11``Erik*grouse*
19:11.22IriX64snarl eh:)
19:13.09IriX64why set the cpu's requested to 16?
19:13.20IriX64in raytrace control panel?
19:14.04IriX64mine says 16 cpus requested only one available using 1.
19:15.09IriX64warning compile time debugging is enabled and may limit performance.... time for another build then ill race you again :) bbiab
19:16.50brlcadheh
19:17.05brlcadturning off debugging might get him 100 rays/sec
19:26.14``ErikI've been able to replicate that amd64 seg bug without the --with-optimization flag... :/
19:33.52brlcadthat's rather uninteresting given there is no --with-optimization flag ;)
19:34.13brlcadmore interesting if you meant --disable-optimized
19:35.49CIA-2BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/ (9 files in 3 dirs): follow erik's lead, obliterate the other references to Cakefiles
19:36.03*** join/#brlcad DTRemenak (n=Daniel_R@c-24-23-59-104.hsd1.ca.comcast.net)
19:36.06``Eriker
19:36.15``Erikyeah, whatever, that knob
19:36.32``Erikit's done via dialog in my latest port, so *shrug* I d'no :)
19:38.09brlcadcan you try and see if it helps to change from/to pthreads vs some other threading lib?
19:38.34brlcadi can hobble up and show how to disable SMP to see if it's at least related to parallelism
19:39.41``Erikum, lemme dork with it some
19:40.11``Erik<-- kinda flipping through g_dsp to see how objects without explicitely known sizes are managed...
19:44.39``Erikdoes it with both libpthread and libthr
19:45.17``Eriklibrt/shoot.c ... stp is null, (and print *stpp shows 0x0)
19:45.41``Erikthis is std view on havoc, btw, and the crash LOOKS like it happens right as it touches the first glass part of the canopy
19:49.38``Eriksame crash with bu_avail_cpus() replaced with 1
19:49.49``Erikdon't think it's threading, duder
19:49.59brlcadeek, g_dsp is probably not the best example..
19:50.38brlcadit probably is the first glass, that would point towards something related to liboptical
19:51.06brlcadsetting bu_avail_cpus() to 1 isn't the same as disabling SMP outright
19:51.35brlcadit will still acquire locks and spawn threads with 1 avail cpu
19:51.45brlcad(potentially)
19:52.03``Erikhm *shrug*
19:52.04brlcadPARALLEL in include/machine.h
19:53.15brlcadundefine it and *poof* it should all go non-smp
19:53.57brlcads/should/will/
19:54.14``Erikghah, that cruft is still there? :/
19:54.50brlcadhaven't absorbed machine.h yet, impacts a ton of code, particularly ray-trace lib stuff
19:55.12``Erikbuilding...
19:55.18brlcadclose to getting rid of the bit shift first
19:56.12``Erikand a smarter make
20:03.56``Eriksame crash
20:22.36*** join/#brlcad IriX64 (n=who@toronto-HSE-ppp4310781.sympatico.ca)
20:26.51IriX64almost ready to race you, I need one thing, 6 of your cluster :P
20:42.42``Erikheh, which one?
20:44.09IriX64geez how many clusters do you guys have :)
20:44.22``Erikum, look up 'army' at the top500 list
20:45.12IriX64scuse i thought you guys were engineers... oh wait, first we dig em then we die in em right.
20:46.59IriX64nice truck the m35 lets see what she looks like.
20:49.42IriX64summat wrong with my system, can't cut and paste sheesh.
20:50.36IriX64deauce and a 1/2 without the canopy top neat.
20:51.56``Erikengineers? O.o
20:52.07IriX64spell it right :P
20:52.36``Erikthat reminds me, I wanna see barbies new jeep...
20:52.54IriX6410518.30 rays per sec wallclock.
20:53.16IriX64tried barbies jeep the truck is much nicer.
20:54.03IriX64whyd they put the exhaust stack on the right, driver have sensitive ears?
20:54.09``Erikawwww, it's so pwetty
20:54.31``Erikwhat, on the m35?
20:54.44IriX64yeah.
20:54.45``Erikvisibility?
20:55.05IriX64ah the passenger doesnt need to see to shoot :)
20:55.35``Erikum, it's not an assault vehicle?
20:55.54IriX64tell that to the guy riding shotgun :)
20:56.56IriX64whats another pretty picture lets browse /db
20:57.04``Eriksphflake is neato
20:57.19IriX64tanks err wait... :)
20:57.32``Eriktank_car.g is a halftrack I think?
20:57.56``Erikktank.g is a favorite
20:59.56IriX64either a linoleum floor or a chess board i think.
21:00.07IriX64sphflake that is.
21:00.14``Erikdid you rt it?
21:00.25IriX64still rting. its big.
21:00.31``Erikheh
21:00.35IriX64raytrace
21:02.04IriX64that took 134.81 secs.
21:02.04``Erikpurdee, ainnit?
21:02.05IriX64so lets 2minutes and some right.
21:02.10IriX64very
21:02.32IriX64slow system ah well i love her anyway.
21:02.54``Erikcan't be any slower than my home systems
21:03.07IriX64heh this is a home system.
21:03.39IriX64tank_car is a railroad car already looked at that one.
21:04.10``Erik<-- has 5 systems at home... 1.2 ghz g4 powerbook, 1.2ghz athlon tower, 850mhz athlon, 700mhz g3 ibook, 120mhz cyrix 6x86, and a busted sun ultra5
21:04.11IriX64star is enterprise and shuttle also very purdy.
21:04.15``Erik6, rather
21:04.39IriX64heh a collector :)
21:04.48``Eriknot really
21:04.56IriX64repair shop?
21:05.02``Erikotherwise I'd still have my commodore 64's, coleco adam, etc
21:05.07``Erikjust haven't thrown the garbage out yet
21:05.08``Erik:)
21:05.13IriX64ha
21:10.02IriX64well we have the floor lets dance. :)
21:11.22brlcadwallclock time is not the best metric for comparing raytrace times
21:11.27brlcaduse the RTFM value
21:11.28IriX64hrmph scene.r won't expand ... bug in the geometry browser, ill be back.
21:11.47IriX647.41 secs.
21:11.49brlcadthat isolates out system interference, startup costs, etc
21:12.12IriX64362509.86 rays/sec.
21:12.48IriX64RTFM=real time frame meter ? :)
21:13.34IriX64ill stay wont take long to fix.
21:14.10IriX64and recompile mged.
21:15.36IriX64ill ftp you the mged src, you fix it ok ? :)
21:16.27IriX64btw i really like these .1 files, whose idea?
21:17.00IriX64templates ala the U.S. Military, gotta love it.
21:21.31brlcadray trace figure of merit :)
21:21.49IriX64does sphflake.sh mean anything to you?
21:21.56IriX64ty
21:22.29IriX64heh doh.
21:22.34IriX64me i mean.
21:22.39brlcadthat would be a shell script that raytrace sphflake
21:22.57IriX64yes works too, kudos:)
21:24.48IriX64i could dcc you sphflake.sh if you like.
21:26.40IriX64bbiab
22:00.18``Erik...
22:01.13IriX64pummel him ``Erik. :)
22:01.38``Erikactually, I'm more apt to pummel you
22:01.45``Erikbrlcad could benchpress like 3 of me
22:01.53``Erikplus he's not a total 'tard..
22:01.56``Erik*coughcough* :)
22:02.29IriX64Company in my town wants a linux build, I'm gonna take this on as a mini project :)
22:04.26``Eriklike the ones you can download for free from... http://sourceforge.net/project/showfiles.php?group_id=105292&package_id=113559
22:04.33IriX64./configure --enable-almost-everything --with-x --disable-shared --enable-optimizations --build=i586-unix-linux.
22:04.47IriX64don't take that the wrong way ``Erik.
22:05.13IriX64shes configuring now.
22:05.27IriX64they like my work what can i say? :)
22:05.39``Erik*shrug*
22:06.00IriX64*gasp* ;)
22:06.02``Erikif you want to be actually useful, redoing builds isn't gonna accomplish that... check out http://sourceforge.net/tracker/?atid=640802&group_id=105292&func=browse
22:06.08``Erik:)
22:06.23IriX64who says im doing this to be useful :)
22:06.30``Erikaight *shrug*
22:09.49IriX64sorry eric didn't know wed switched to serious mode, ill look at some of these, ive got oodles of time on my hands.
22:16.57IriX64a "piss off user key" <---- did that guy pay you for the binaries :)
22:21.09``Erikeh?
Jeff Waugh - find it at freshmeat.net! Modified by Tim Riker to work with blootbot logs, split per channel, etc. irclog2html for #brlcad on 20060707

irclog2html for #brlcad on 20060707

01:27.25*** join/#brlcad IriX64_ (n=who@toronto-HSE-ppp4310781.sympatico.ca)
01:29.41Mariohahah already taken.
01:31.18MarioDnow you know me :)
01:31.24MarioDand its registered.
01:35.00brlcadMarioD: what does ymp stand for?
01:37.56MarioDcray multi-processing
01:41.04brlcadheh, so you did mean that
01:41.31brlcadwhy in the world did you put that on the ftp upload to windows binaries?
01:42.06MarioDsay what?
01:42.19MarioDmy transfer never completed.
01:43.13``Eriko.O
01:43.26MarioDsomebody's trying to do me dirt brlcad.
01:43.31``Eriknew windows super computing edition for cray? blue-screen faster than ever? :D
01:43.48MarioDheheh ``Erik craydows :)
01:44.49``Erikin case someone hasn't seen it yet.. http://www.columbusdiscgolf.com/IMAGES/LOTRsig.gif
01:45.44MarioDelf?!?
01:46.14MarioDRobin Goodfellow :)
01:48.38``Erikuh... did you enjoy a lot of wall candy when you were a kid?
01:49.05MarioDi smoke... i don't toke :)
01:49.28``Erikuh... that's not what wall candy is...
01:49.38MarioDjudeg me by my iq number will you ? ;)
01:49.47``ErikO:-)
01:49.57MarioDso elucidate what the fark is wall candy?
01:50.08brlcadMarioD: one of the transfers completed, I decompressed it
01:50.24MarioDno not mine, both my transfers aborted.
01:50.37brlcadstill, doesn't explain why you'd choose a cray designation on windows binaries.. ;)
01:50.42``Erik... well... long long ago, people used lead based paint for their walls... and eventually it'd start flaking... and kids would eat it... and, uh, become slightly mentally deficient... hockey helmet, water wings, etc
01:50.49MarioDi DIDN'T!!!
01:51.12``ErikO:-)
01:51.30MarioDahhh i see eric dumb of me not to have made the connection, perhaps i inhaled a few flakes.
01:51.43brlcadyou say they aborted.. what aborted?
01:51.51MarioDthe uploads.
01:51.58brlcadi mean what were the filenames of what you were uploading..
01:52.06MarioDdisconnected connection closed by remote host.
01:52.29MarioDone was linuxbrlcad.zip and the other was ympbrlcad.zip
01:52.41``Erikwhy 'ympbrlcad'?
01:52.54brlcadokay, there you have it.. yes, why ymp for windows binaries? :)
01:53.05MarioDman..... i was hoping youd take a chance and test it.
01:53.32brlcadheh
01:53.41MarioDdo you or do you not have that cray in your database drawings file?
01:54.03brlcadi wouldn't copy user-provided binaries to HPC assets
01:54.03MarioDi dont do that eric.
01:54.06``Erikyeah, like an old cray2...
01:54.08``Erikbut, uh...
01:54.17``ErikDUDE, you DID
01:54.35MarioDno i didnt whats the ip it came from?
01:54.38``Erikwhen we see 'ympbrlcad', we see "this is brlcad built for a cray machine runnign unicos"
01:54.50MarioDexactly.
01:55.20MarioDthats the problem with anonymous ftp its so easy to smear someone, now ill shut up.
01:55.24brlcadactually, I highly doubted it was cray binaries and simply assumed ymp had to mean something else :)
01:55.33MarioDheh
01:55.42brlcadespecially after a file type showed they certainly were not
01:55.49``Erik(unicos is a funkyarsed OS, btw)
01:56.01MarioDmvp 12 7809
01:56.27MarioDsmoke break.
02:07.33MarioDman..now it's bugging me, my transfers never completed , i swear, if you keep aborted files you should have a ymp-brlcad.zip and a partial linuxbrlcad.zip too im sorry i caused you grief, i won't repeat the mistake.
02:07.58MarioDback to work.
02:08.00brlcadthere were several versions of each, it iterates versions
02:08.16MarioDmy client keeps trying.
02:08.28brlcadno surprise
02:08.35``Erikquit letting it do that
02:08.49MarioDheh yah i should not have gone to bed... sue me :)
02:09.17MarioDplz appoint one.
02:09.25``Erikmr hat!
02:09.32MarioDmrs cat
02:09.36MarioD!
02:09.40``Erikhad her
02:09.42``ErikI mean, uh
02:09.47``ErikO:-)
02:09.57MarioDheh thats the name of the house smooz.
02:10.43MarioDfor me work calls, for you duty calls have at her....;)
02:53.09MarioDsay ``Erik do you have access to a vax boxen?
02:53.42MarioDvax code generator is complete.
02:58.29MarioDmy days as an FSE for DEC came in handy here :)
02:59.27*** join/#brlcad DTRemenak (n=DTRemena@c-24-23-59-104.hsd1.ca.comcast.net)
07:42.53*** join/#brlcad Twingy (n=justin@c-69-250-236-111.hsd1.md.comcast.net)
14:04.47IriX64./configure --build=pdp11/70   <---- system pdp11/70 not recognized... *GOOF* doh.
14:05.19IriX64its pdp11 dork. :)
14:06.02IriX64brlcad for the pdp11 ultrix systems, sweet.
14:08.36IriX64time to build one for myself.
14:40.13IriX6410 years worth of work just to compile BRL-CAD ? ;)
14:40.36IriX64``Erik i'll buy it from you i was not given one when i left :P
14:41.05``Erikif you have a pdp crosscompiler on your windows machine, I would be HIGHLY surprised. Bear in mind, just because you say --build=somearch does NOT mean it'll actually build for that arch... you need the appropriate crosscompiler installed... a full compiler for each target
14:41.06IriX64they gave me a watch instead :)
14:41.11``Erik(and --target is the right flag)
14:41.30IriX64heh
14:41.31IriX64ok
14:41.59IriX64unless of course your configuring *as a pdp11/70.
14:43.46``Erikeh?
14:44.52IriX64set build type if a cross compiler is detected it will be used direct quote from configure.
14:45.04IriX64dont use --host.
14:46.33IriX64i try to configure my compiler and linker ``Erik, different approach to that of gcc.
14:47.25IriX64heh where were you with your questions all these years?
14:47.29IriX64:)
14:47.40``Eriko.O
14:48.16IriX64set CC=cassie.exe and set LD=cassield.exe is what i live by.
14:48.41IriX64hrmph or in some cases die by. :)
14:49.18IriX64what do you call yours?
14:49.33``Erikerm, heh, which ones?
14:49.35``Erik:>
14:49.46IriX64the most popular one heh.
14:50.00IriX64gcc right?
14:50.02IriX64:)
14:50.12``Erikwell, I've provided aid to bigger projects... the ones that are actually mine are pet projects that haven't been released
14:50.19``Eriknah, I don't mess with gcc
14:50.25IriX64ill show you a collect ;)
14:50.36``Erikthe 'compiler' I've probably done the most with is gauche
14:50.43IriX64mine will *never be released.
14:50.54IriX64other plans for her.
14:51.00``Erik<-- bit of a scheme head
14:51.07IriX64gauche as in bouche?
14:51.24``Erikno, gauche as in the japanese scheme compiler/interpreter?
14:51.39IriX64ah dont know that one.
15:04.47IriX64doing pix now how fast is a build on your cluster ``Erik?
15:05.50``Erikum, I haven't done a build across the cluster yet
15:05.51IriX6445 mins 25 secs ... finally.
15:06.22``Erikjust a single node on a cluster...
15:06.49IriX64sigh now 10 mins for the install... you know all computers wait at the same speed 18.2ticks/sec :)
15:07.44``Erikhm, most of mine tick at either 100hz or 1000hz
15:07.47``Erikdepending on their role
15:08.11IriX64dropped the g file did you? :)
15:08.24``Erikhuh?
15:08.30IriX64heh
15:08.53IriX64100cps or 1000cps?
15:09.52IriX64doing the jack stuff now...jack...jack shit, i know him :P
15:10.15``Erikman, you need to lay off the crack
15:10.33IriX64its that wall candy.
15:11.18IriX64i do crack of dawn everyday
15:11.46SWPadnos18.2 ticks/sec was the slowest the PC timer tick could be, but it can be much faster (possibly up to the full clock rate of 1.192MHz
15:12.24IriX64the timer tick cant be changed youll break backwards compatibility.
15:12.32SWPadnosnot really
15:12.39IriX64its so.
15:12.45IriX64they insist
15:13.08SWPadnosthat may be true for DOS and Windows, but I assure you that the Linux kernel runs at 1000 Hz just fine
15:13.37SWPadnosor 100, or 250, or ...
15:13.50IriX64its not programmable SWPadnos.
15:13.53``ErikElapsed compilation time: 3 minutes, 35 seconds
15:13.55``Eriksweet
15:14.09IriX64cmon. nothings that fast.
15:14.15``Erik12 core altix is
15:14.24``Erikreal    3m35.257s
15:14.24``Erikuser    14m55.047s
15:14.24``Eriksys     6m18.258s
15:14.27SWPadnossome of us only had access to PDP-11s or PCs ;)
15:14.30IriX64your serious here?
15:14.44IriX64heh
15:14.45brlcadand that's optimized, unoptimized only takes about 2.5 minutes
15:15.04``Eriknumanumanuma
15:15.05``Erik*duck*
15:15.08brlcadthe 16 core takes about 2
15:15.14IriX64where do i swear allegiance :)
15:15.14``Erikbrlcad, you coming  in today?
15:15.20brlcadnope
15:15.26SWPadnosmy dual Opteron did a full optimized build in ~10 minutes, and that's dual single-core, 244s, with 800 MHz HT
15:15.42brlcad``Erik: plan to actually get some work done, get some stuff coded
15:15.50``Erikdarn, I was hoping to bounce ideas about wdb for my meat balls
15:15.59IriX64sigh im stoneage by comparison.
15:16.05``Erikand the building is empty, heh
15:16.23``Erikuh... opteron? ht? uh?
15:16.46SWPadnosheh
15:17.08brlcadthere's a compilation threshhold where it's not really going to get any faster without parallel linking and multi-directory compilation parallelism
15:17.27``Erikthat's where a smarter make would be nice... :)
15:17.31SWPadnosare uou using recursive makefiles, or "submakefiles"?
15:17.34IriX64;)
15:17.34SWPadnosyou
15:17.36brlcadthere is a make rule that does parallel linking (make fast), that can give a boost on distributed compiles
15:18.03SWPadnosI'd bet that ccache or something similar would also help
15:18.25``Erikuh, only on the second build... it makes the first a bit slower
15:18.42brlcadrecursive
15:19.09SWPadnos``Erik, ok - I wasn't sure if multiple files in the build would have an advantage (if they use similar headers)
15:19.19brlcadnon-recursive starts to fall apart the larger the project gets
15:19.35IriX64dudes whats with terra.g mged crashes on it, mapped file open failed.
15:19.38SWPadnosbrlcad, we found that changing to a hierarchical make sped up emc compilation by ~2-3x
15:19.52SWPadnosand made it so you could actually cvs up and get correct builds ;)
15:20.16SWPadnoshmmm - maybe only 2x or so, not 3x
15:20.20brlcadi don't doubt that it is usually faster
15:20.25brlcadthe tradeoffs are in other aspects
15:20.42SWPadnosyeah - nobody's used to the method ;)
15:20.57IriX64ERROR: NULL bu_mapped_file_pointer , file g_dsp.c line 3135
15:21.00brlcadif you're a project composed of projects (which brl-cad is massively), then you've suddenly lost all the "free" build rules
15:21.39brlcadIriX64: that's a terrain database -- you probably have to find the datafile and have it in . or somesuch
15:22.02IriX64thanks
15:22.03brlcadi.e. it's an outboard data file that is trying to be read in, and it fails because it can't find it
15:25.18brlcadSWPadnos: not only are folks unfamiliar with it, you have to manually create custom clean rules for every "subproject", there's no standard naming convention and make does not expose targets leaving users to guess, read docs, read the Makefile, etc instead of using the otherwise consistent convention of using cd to designate a selection
15:26.42SWPadnosthe ability to cd <blah> and make is great, and I'm not sure if we needed that
15:26.52SWPadnos(I didn't do any of the makefile work - I don't know enough about it)
15:27.25brlcadit's pretty simple, does emc comprise multiple projects? :)
15:27.35brlcador have a lot of binaries/libraries at least
15:27.38SWPadnossort of
15:27.41SWPadnosyes
15:27.52brlcadwhat do you consider a lot?
15:27.52SWPadnosthere are multiple GUIs, RT components, kernel modules, etc.
15:28.21SWPadnosthere are roughly a dozen executables, and more than a dozen kernel modules, plus generated scripts and the like
15:28.22brlcadnot referring to configuration items
15:28.42brlcadconfigure generally handles features/modules, not make directly
15:29.08SWPadnoswell, you run the make from the top level src dir, and only from there ;)
15:29.17brlcadsure
15:29.27brlcadthat's basic non-recursive make
15:30.06SWPadnosit used to be recursive, and we still did things that way
15:30.32brlcadi implemented the start of a non-recursive make for brl-cad but it really just wasn't providing a significant benefit and was going to require a considerable amount of extra work to match was current recursive make already provides
15:30.34SWPadnosthere were annoying complications like having to create a temp headers dir and copy all .h files there, and other ugliness
15:30.37``Erikrecursive make is as fast as non-recursive if your subdirs are well populated...
15:32.13brlcadone of my biggest complaints against it is that the main arguments against recursive make are not based on user-experience, they are founded on limitations of make itself (that "could" be fixed)
15:33.09SWPadnosnot really
15:33.13brlcadtheoretically, we're using automake so if they were so inclined, they could turn all the Makefile.am's into a non-recursive setup, it's just such a massive amount of work that I doubt they ever will
15:33.20brlcadat least not this decade
15:33.29SWPadnosthe issue is that make can't generate a complete dependency tree, because it doens't know about everything up front
15:33.53brlcaduhm, that's entirely a limitation of make itself
15:34.38SWPadnosnot really - remember, the makefiles have multiple projects in them, so the information is being intentionally kept separate
15:34.39brlcadhas nothing to do with the user interface aspect of building projects
15:35.13SWPadnosright
15:36.28SWPadnoshttp://www.canb.auug.org.au/~millerp/rmch/recu-make-cons-harm.html
15:36.35brlcadfrom an automake-using project perspective, the information is all there -- I've told it exactly which subdirs that tie into it
15:36.51brlcadyes, that's an ancient pile of tripe :)
15:37.13SWPadnosheh
15:37.33SWPadnoswell - I shouldn't waste your time - I don't know enough to discuss the subject intelligently :)
15:37.36brlcadthe entire arguement focuses on performance limitation, not usability
15:38.27brlcadit sacrifices implicit usability for the sake of performance (or at best delegating the role of usability onto developer hands)
15:38.43brlcadinstead of focusing on the limitations of make and fixing the problem there
15:38.47SWPadnosthe argument that got me wasn't about performance
15:38.50brlcador automake should you have the case
15:38.55SWPadnosit was correctness
15:39.26brlcadi'd argue that there is nothing inherintly "incorrect" about recursive make in the least
15:39.29SWPadnoswe had problems where a build wouldn't work until you did make clean (or just did a clean checkout)
15:39.38brlcadmake could propagate information to children make processes
15:39.44SWPadnosand those were all solved by changing to a non-recursive make
15:40.05SWPadnosthey may have been due to stupidities in the original makefiles though
15:41.28brlcadwe used to see similar issues but it almost always traced down to either an automake bug or an invalid assumption or missing dependency in some Makefile.am
15:42.13brlcadit took a while to get in right, but now it does assuming the automake rev isn't buggy -- all dependencies update like they're documented to work when things are edited, things generally don't get "stuck" etc
15:43.51brlcadthe biggest problem with recursive make that I see is a similar agreement that make should propagate state information
15:44.46brlcadi've talked to the gnu make devs to some extent about it and they mostly agreed after a similar long debate but basically boiled down to "it'd be a lot of work" and nobody wanted to do it
15:45.37brlcadeasier to start yet another religion by declaring the hard way incorrect and the status quo correct :)
15:49.37SWPadnosFSM
15:49.53SWPadnossorry - new religion ;)
15:57.11IriX64i like the -i switch on make it comes in very handy ;)
16:00.38IriX64that file is farked, but still it should not shutdown should just report an error and keep on trucking.
16:06.25IriX64smoke break bbiab.
17:30.37IriX64ray tracing the m35 belly up :)
17:30.52IriX64on a sky blue background.
19:02.27*** join/#brlcad IriX64 (n=IriX64@toronto-HSE-ppp4310781.sympatico.ca)
19:50.18*** join/#brlcad Lapo (n=kvirc@81-208-74-176.ip.fastwebnet.it)
19:50.23LapoHi all
20:19.03Lapohelp close
20:26.58*** join/#brlcad Lapo (n=kvirc@81-208-74-176.ip.fastwebnet.it)
20:27.04LapoHi all again
20:28.39Lapoplease Can someone help me in the installation of brl-cad?
20:42.50``Erik?
20:46.00LapoHi Erik
20:49.50Lapomged: error while loading shared libraries: /usr/brlcad/lib/libtermio.so.19: ELF file OS ABI invalid
20:50.09LapoI got this problem
20:50.35LapoDo you have an idea of what is wrong?
21:08.22*** part/#brlcad Lapo (n=kvirc@81-208-74-176.ip.fastwebnet.it)
21:12.16CIA-2BRL-CAD: 03johnranderson * 10brlcad/src/librtserver/rtserver.c: added (int) cast to eliminate compiler warning
21:27.59``Erikheh, and he bolts
23:19.44IriX64that go on often?
23:20.19IriX64thought so was a static lib.
23:20.53IriX64ahh well too much beer :)
23:27.02IriX64This better: Frame 0: 894916 rays in 1.02 secs = 880822.83 rays/sec RTFM (Read the fine manual)
23:29.34brlcad.so => shared object library
23:29.43IriX64.la
23:29.48brlcadlibtool archive
23:29.58IriX64.a
23:30.02brlcadarchive
23:30.12IriX64static lib?
23:30.23brlcadyes, static library archive
23:30.36IriX64hmph :)
23:30.55IriX64you know way too much to be useful ;)
23:31.37brlcadheh, you can run gentoo on gentoo..
23:31.40brlcadhttp://www.obsession.se/gentoo/
23:31.54IriX64any experience with vmware?
23:32.41brlcadyeah, good stuff
23:32.56IriX64so i hear. ... might play.
23:32.57brlcadused to write linux kernel code in it
23:33.07IriX64that advanced?
23:33.08brlcadmakes for a great kernel dev environment
23:33.33brlcadreboot the system, write filesystem drivers without potentially screwing up your main system
23:33.51brlcadif the kernel crashes, you just restart vmware, etc
23:34.06brlcadall in an app instead of waiting for hardware
23:35.22IriX64nice
23:35.45IriX64smoke break :)
23:36.34brlcadyou smoke a lot
23:45.46``Erikhah
23:45.47``Erikwow
23:46.04``Erikknowing a couple lbasic and very common file extensions is 'knowing too much', that's ripe
23:46.04``Erik:)
23:47.18``Erikand pungent?
23:47.23brlcadmost definitely
23:48.08``Erikzo, I am tinkink about ze wdb file format, ja?
23:48.23brlcad"wdb file format"?
23:48.26``Erikerm
23:48.27``Erikfor
23:48.29``Erikmeat balls
23:48.34``Eriksveedish ones
23:48.57brlcadah, you mean how to add your prim to the .g
23:49.05``Erika float (the eval value), and a set of [point&float]
23:49.48``Erikpoint&float pairs need to be modifiable, and need to be added to the 'metaball' after the metaball is defined
23:49.56brlcadwould include a count at the onset so a future mod or even current code can jump to the next section fwiw
23:49.58``Erikis there an obvious approach?
23:50.03``Erikof course
23:50.07brlcadran into that problem with the nurbs prim where it didn't do that
23:50.08``Erikthat's a minor optimization, though
23:50.15brlcadmaking it a bltch to add trimming info
23:50.30brlcad(in a backwards-compatible way)
23:50.58brlcadwhat are the point/float pairs?
23:51.06``Erikheh, I've already noticed cruft from maintaining backwards compatability...
23:51.26brlcadprobably all the v4 stuff, this isn't that bad
23:51.31``Erikthey're the defining points
23:51.54brlcadthe what's the initial float?
23:52.23brlcadthe effective power no?
23:52.34``Erika set of points, each with a field strength generates the raw 'metaball', then to get the shell, you define an value and generate an isosurface...
23:52.56``Erikas far as I understand
23:52.57brlcadahh, the zero-crossing value to evaluate the implicit at
23:53.03brlcadgotcha
23:53.16``Erikyeah, f(n)-q=0 where f(n) is the metaball and q is the evaluation value
23:54.02``Erik<-- not sure how to interface this via brlcad's "in" cmd or how to spec a wdb friendly way to store it...
23:54.31``ErikI'd imagine having the points as a linked list spread throughout the .g would be a bad thing...
23:55.18``Erik<-- wanted to bug lee about this last evening
23:55.24``Erikbut lee was busy and I decided I wanted to go hom :)
23:55.57``Erik<-- should probably annoy lee on thursday
23:57.49brlcadthe wdb interface is just going to call the primitive's export function, librt deals with the actual i/o
23:58.22brlcadthe export/import functions will implicitly determine how things are stored onto disk
23:58.29brlcadyou basically serialize your data there
23:58.54``Erikhm, and there is no concept of compaction or collection ?
23:59.03brlcadand from the database layer's perspective, you're just stashing a binary chunk of data for the primitive
23:59.20brlcadthere is across multiple objects
23:59.43brlcadand individual objects can optionally manage that on their own, though I don't think any take advantage of that right now
23:59.52``ErikI mean, I could save a two floats, then an array of vec4's...
23:59.53brlcadthe BoT's are actually a good example
Jeff Waugh - find it at freshmeat.net! Modified by Tim Riker to work with blootbot logs, split per channel, etc. irclog2html for #brlcad on 20060708

irclog2html for #brlcad on 20060708

00:00.11``Erikbut if a forcing point is added, it's overflowed its area
00:00.13brlcadsince it's also an arbitrary list of polygon data
00:00.44``Erikrt_bot_export() ?
00:01.06brlcadyeah, it will, and elsewhere in librt it handles how to deal with marking db nodes as invalid and reutilizing them as new writes are requested
00:01.25brlcadfrom your perspective, though, you just return your binary block of data
00:02.06``Erikahhhh, ok, so there is SOME notion of memory management built in, that's nice
00:02.26brlcad:)
00:03.05brlcadthe database spec completely supports the idea.. how well the library implements it may be another contention point
00:03.32brlcadstill, that's a fix looking for a problem.. i'd do what the other prims do for now and not worry about it (as it's generally not a problem)
00:03.49brlcadyou can invoke a database compaction in mged with the "garbage_collect" command
00:04.14brlcad(full instead of the on-going dynmaic reuse)
00:04.52``Erikhm
00:05.19``Erikand I suppose the interface for bot is a good example for metaballs?
00:06.01brlcadfor the db i/o it's probably not bad
00:06.03brlcadrelatively new
00:06.15``ErikI meant the user interface
00:06.17brlcada little contorted with the hooks into nmg, but it's still dynamic
00:06.32brlcadah, bot's have a very primitive interface
00:06.40``Erik<-- is able to make, like, boxes and spheres now...
00:06.50``Erikthat's about the limit of my modelling ability iwth the package :)
00:07.06brlcadi mean you can actually tweak individual triangle vertex positions, in fact you HAVE to edit them that way :)
00:07.18brlcadthere's no gui edit support, minimal menu support
00:07.26brlcadso gui-wise, they're not there
00:07.42brlcadsomething older would be better from that perspective like torus and arbs
00:07.44``Erikhehehe, I didn't say anything about graphical :)
00:07.57``Eriktorus and arbs have a fixed number of values, though
00:08.08``Erikit's the dynamic nature that is difficult... :) I think o.O
00:08.11brlcadbtw, you mentioned the "in" command, that's src/mged/typein.c
00:08.28brlcadsome aspects of implementation are not in the library, the live in mged or libwdb
00:08.59brlcadand src/tclscripts/mged of course for the tcl aspects
00:09.02``ErikI started going through manual II, I got as far as making the radio and learning a little about 'mater'
00:09.08``Erikthat's as far as I've gotten so far...
00:09.27``Erik<-- ignyant
00:09.37brlcadright, torus and arbs are fixed values but again that only affects the _export() and _import() routines
00:09.52brlcadthat doesn't affect the mged hookage or raytracing
00:10.50``Erikum, I'm not sure I understand... arb4 takes 4 points... period... you can't add another point to it ... or delete a point...
00:10.57brlcadthere's a laundry list of about 10 files that HAVE to be updated to properly add a new primitive (v5 only), and a couple optional
00:11.17``Erikg_xxx.c lists some of that... I'm not sure it's complete, or entirely correct...
00:11.35brlcadthe g_ file is one of the 10
00:11.55``Erikg_xxx.c (and two others) have a big comment that say "do this, then do that, then edit this..."
00:12.08brlcadthere's the object table in librt, the typein cmd, the make cmd, mged menu, couple headers, *scratches head*
00:12.20``Eriktalks about rtgeom.h, db.h, the function table, ...
00:12.40brlcadteh g_ template only tells you how to hook the primitive in for ray-tracing, not creation or editing
00:12.46``Erikstarting at line 27...
00:13.31brlcadthose directions are outdated
00:13.35``ErikI figured...
00:13.36brlcadthose are v4 instructions
00:13.45``Eriklee told me to look at 'em... I've had no success with those...
00:13.55``ErikI doubt lee has added a v5 primitive
00:14.21brlcadthe superell is the newest primitive to be added -- it's incomplete from a ray-trace perspective but it IS hooked into all the right place and is easy to grep on
00:15.50brlcadonly thing you'll have to watch out for is that it also implements v4 support, which you really shouldn't bother with
00:17.58brlcadthis gives the list:
00:18.00brlcadfind . -type f \( -name \*.c -or -name \*.h \) -exec grep -r -i superell {} /dev/null \; | cut -f1 -d: | sort  | uniq
00:18.23``Erikheh... I know 'nuff unix for that shit, dude :)
00:18.24brlcadyou don't need db.h, that's v4
00:18.41brlcadhey, just trying to help :P
00:18.53``Erik<-- not gonna look at it until thursday, is doing greening
00:19.14``Erikdrinking and womanizing on the weekend, then greening, *THEN* coding :D *duck*
00:19.15brlcadlooks like I was right on the mark -- 10 files
00:19.30brlcadahh, I still haven't done greening
00:20.04``ErikI'm kinda surprised I'm going... jay-lo is, too
00:20.10brlcadwonder if it's any more informative than a week at ROTC training
00:20.21``Erikthe agenda looks interesting
00:20.29``Erikhave you done a week at rotc?
00:20.35brlcadyeah
00:20.57``Erikheh
00:20.59*** join/#brlcad LawrenceG (n=Lawrence@S010600045ae2c372.pk.shawcable.net)
00:21.10``Erik<-- did 3 yrs njrotc... decided it sucked balls, so started growing his hair
00:21.17brlcaddid the whole survival boot camp, disassemble m16's, go shooting, go rapelling, early morning pt, etc
00:21.48``Erikheh
00:21.50brlcadwas considering joining rotc at the time just on a whim
00:22.12brlcadalmost did, no particular reason I didn't other than it was a huge amount of time and I wanted to leave my options open :)
00:22.39``Eriknjrotc is very navy focused, and just highschool kids, so *shrug* :) no obligations
00:22.43brlcadshooting the m16 is pretty fun, I could see doing that as a hobby
00:22.43``Erikjust a way to get out of gym
00:23.00``ErikI'm hoping they let us shoot 'em on monday
00:23.15``Eriksupposed to go to the range to learn about m16, m203, and m14...
00:23.16brlcadi hear they don't any more.. but who knows.. it's been years
00:23.30``ErikI've held an m203 combo, and worn night vision goggles... haven't shot one
00:24.06``Erikhehehe
00:24.14``Erikthose'd be a wee bit trickier to work out :D
00:24.28brlcadyou'd think of all the places that could be arranged... :)
00:24.32``Eriksupposedly the third day, they'll have two abrams and two bradleys... "with drivers"
00:25.10``Erik40 knots on 5" of water is fun shit :)
00:26.08brlcadhttp://ftp.brlcad.org/statcvs/
00:26.52``Erikman, you went and shuffled all my files so I'm not even listed *sigh*
00:26.55brlcadthat has bad author line counts due to the open sourcing "significant derivative work"
00:27.22brlcadhere's a normalized one that takes it out of the picture, but then scews the project line count: http://ftp.brlcad.org/statcvs.normalized/
00:28.03``Erikhuh, only 486 of my lines remain unmutilated
00:28.32brlcadit's not counting remaining -- it only basis the numbers on +- values in the commit log, not an annotate
00:29.00brlcadyou feed it a cvs log and the sources only, so it's only the info it derives from those two
00:29.18brlcadi ran the same tool on m3 and bzflag.. interesting results :)
00:29.31brlcadi love how on the Authors page, you can actually see how different devs work
00:29.46brlcadi mean you can see when jra changed his schedule and when he even goes to lunch!
00:30.54brlcadyou can see who's a 9-5er and who works around the clock, who infrequently participates, who's heavily involved, etc
00:31.07``Erikhm
00:31.12``Erikm3 cvs behavior is very... sub-par.
00:31.23``ErikI'm sure you noticed long silences, then bursts of huge activity
00:31.31``Erikfrom the dev's sitting on their changes for weeks at a time
00:31.43``Erikand quit calling it m3, you're sullying the name of my car!!!
00:31.56brlcadlets just say you can see when the demo was given and the aftermath
00:32.02``Erikhah
00:32.42brlcadthe only thing that statcvs doesn't show that would be cool is the magnitude of the commit, it's more frequency
00:33.00brlcadcoloring them as a heat graph instead of just red would be sweet
00:33.12``Erikso, uh... fix it?
00:33.20``ErikI'm sure it's just a littel perl script or something :)
00:33.52``Erikhttp://math.missouristate.edu/~erik/normal_kittens.jpeg
00:34.11brlcadask me how much time I want to put into a cvs graph program
00:34.42``Eriknot the 10 minutes to make the change? heh
00:34.47brlcadthere are others that can be run that work on the cvsroot, i might give one of them a try
00:35.14brlcadwhat it did point out, though is that there are about 6 bad rcs/cvs files with wierdness in them
00:35.26brlcadone of them you somehow caused, and like 5 others in librt
00:35.43``Erikwow, I broke a file? awesome
00:35.45``Erikwhich one?
00:35.53brlcadsome header in h/ that was removed
00:36.03``Erikbah, who cares, then
00:36.05``Erik:)
00:36.19brlcadwell it causes problems when you branch and merge I've noticed
00:36.22brlcadat least the librt ones
00:36.44brlcadit will revive the librt directory on the branch and if you're not paying attention, you commit it
00:37.05brlcadhas happened several times and even after it gets deleted again, it's revived later due to whatever is bad in the base rcs file
00:37.49``Erikhow exactly is it 'bad'?
00:38.44brlcadi haven't looked into the cause, just noticed the effect
00:58.25TwingyThank you for contacting NVIDIA Customer Care.
00:58.25TwingyI am really sorry for the priviuos responce.However, due to the competitive nature of this business, we can not discuss information on unannounced future products. We apologize for the inconvenience this may cause.
00:58.26TwingyRegards,
00:58.28TwingyNVIDIA Customer Care.
00:58.53``Eriknice spelling
00:59.08Twingy*cough* out-source much *cough*
00:59.41TwingyI just need a 20" display for this machine and it'll be bangin
01:20.52IriX64I Trust I am amongst friends here? a greeting i used to use when i first entered a channel.
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01:21.40IriX64gotta go, new toy...vmware 5.5 or something.
01:34.02Twingyyet he still needs to reboot
01:34.46TwingyI wonder if Irix64 is Unitions cousin
01:36.01brlcadhe's a quirky old timer
01:38.13Twingylaptops ship?
01:48.27``Erikhahaha
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02:57.45bjorkBSDbrlcad does this sorta thing, right? -> http://www.varicad.com/gallery.phtml
03:09.32brlcadbjorkBSD: sure does
03:10.09brlcadlimited gallery here: http://sourceforge.net/project/screenshots.php?group_id=105292
03:11.15brlcadalas would love to chat more, but tis time to recouperate for morning training session
03:11.33bjorkBSDokay. thanks it looks good.
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14:21.48^Eugenicsdoes anyone know where to find a link that describes how to make drafts with brlcad?
15:23.20brlcadthere's not really a link that describes the process, brl-cad has limited drafting capabilities mostly geared around providing the hidden line drawings sans annotations
15:23.59brlcadrtedge is the hidden line renderer, has a manpage, example at http://ftp.brlcad.org/images/havoc_rtedge.png
15:32.59^Eugenicspiere told me about a render to ps -> pstoedit (dxf) and then finnish up in a 2d cad app.
15:33.24^Eugenicsit's a pinc solutionn but still something
15:33.55^Eugenicspanic
15:57.15brlcadyeah, you can save any mged wireframe to postscript
15:57.56brlcadthere's an output option on the file menu, as well as a handful of mged commands
15:58.55brlcadthe MGED Quick Reference might be of interest if you haven't seen it: http://ftp.brlcad.org/MGED_Quick_Reference_Card.pdf
16:00.04brlcadunder the Manipulating the View section, it shows the "ps" command to save to postscript -- you can similarly save to a unix .pl plot file and use pl-ps on the command line outside mged as well
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16:34.42clock_my first patch submitted to brlcad ;-)
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16:40.50brlcadclock_: cool
16:42.24clock_brlcad: I guess it's OK. I hope there are not system which BRLCAD supports where #include <time.h> doesn't work and one has to write extern long time();.
16:43.59clock_brlcad: I installed OpenBSD instead of Linux.
16:44.14clock_What was BSD developed on? BSD? Commercial UNIX?
16:44.22clock_BSD -> BRL-CAD
17:11.55brlcadclock_: actually there are systems that don't have time.h still around, but they are pretty darn obscure
17:12.04brlcad20+ year old systems most likely
17:12.46brlcadBRL-CAD was developed on a myriad of systems including BSD and SYSV variants from 20+ years ago (hence where the extern long time() comes from)
17:14.12clock_brlcad: so is my patch OK?
17:24.35``Erikwhich obsd did you install?
17:26.55clock_3.9 the latest
17:27.00clock_do you use obsd?
17:27.32clock_mged doesn't run without glx module inserted in X, is this mentioned in the README?
17:32.46``ErikI have 3.8 installed on a work box
17:32.53brlcadmged will run without X
17:33.17brlcadthe binaries just happen to be set up for x11/ogl
17:33.31Twingyany news on laptops?
17:33.36clock_so it's a problem of opengl installation in this case
17:33.48brlcadTwingy: on schedule
17:33.56Twingyjul 15th?
17:34.04brlcad21
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21:07.04*** join/#brlcad Lapo (n=kvirc@81-208-74-176.ip.fastwebnet.it)
21:07.11LapoHi all guys :-D
21:09.56LapoI got this problem when trying to start mged:
21:10.00Lapomged: error while loading shared libraries: /usr/brlcad/lib/libtermio.so.19: ELF file OS ABI invalid
21:10.08LapoCan someone help me please?
21:19.18LapoAnybody there?
21:33.20brlcadhello
21:34.48brlcadif you do a "file /usr/brlcad/lib/libtermio.so.19" and "file /usr/lib/libm.so" (or whatever .so in there) .. what do you get?
21:34.49LapoHi brlcad :-)
21:35.00Lapojust a moment
21:35.40Lapolibtermio.so.19: ELF 32-bit LSB shared object, Intel 80386, version 1 (Free                                                  BSD), not stripped
21:36.28Lapolibm.so: symbolic link to `../../lib/libm.so.6'
21:36.57brlcad"file /lib/libm.so.6"
21:37.55Lapolibm-2.3.3.so
21:38.17brlcadkeep running file until you get to the actual library
21:38.26Lapook
21:38.36brlcador just look in the dir and pick one of the real libraries
21:38.40``Erikor resolve it *shrug*
21:38.41brlcaddoesn't matter which
21:39.12Lapolibm-2.3.3.so: ELF 32-bit LSB shared object, Intel 80386, version 1 (SYSV), stripped
21:39.24``Erikwhat OS are you running, lapo?
21:39.35LapoLinux Mandrake 10.1 Community
21:39.45Lapoon pentium 4
21:39.48``Erikthen why are you trying to run a freebsd binary of brlcad?
21:39.57Lapoehm...
21:40.23Lapook let me check che tar.gz file I downloaded yesterday
21:40.25brlcadwhich binary distribution did you download?
21:41.09``Erikyou need the one from "BRLCAD for Linux" which is 7.8.0, not the one that is "BRLCAD for FreeBSD"
21:41.10Lapodamn I 've deleted the tar.gz
21:41.11``Erik:)
21:41.12brlcadyou probably want< http://prdownloads.sourceforge.net/brlcad/brlcad-7.8.0_linux_ia32.tar.bz2?download
21:41.29Lapook I try to install it again
21:41.36Laposorry for the stupid problem
21:41.54brlcadnot resolved yet, but hopefully that was the problem
21:48.45Lapoouch...
21:49.03LapoI've installed the version you give me.
21:49.31Lapowhen trying to launch mged it says me:
21:49.34LapoInitializing and backgrounding, please wait...mged: symbol lookup error: mged: undefined symbol: Tk_Init
21:49.35LapoMutex destroy failure: Device or resource busy
21:49.35LapoICE default IO error handler doing an exit(), pid = 8753, errno = 0
21:49.35LapoICE default IO error handler doing an exit(), pid = 8765, errno = 0
21:49.43LapoDetached
21:49.50brlcadhrmph
21:50.02LapoI'm really unlucky with brlcad
21:50.10brlcadls -la /usr/brlcad/lib/libtk*
21:50.50Lapoa lot of output...
21:51.16brlcadheh
21:51.52*** join/#brlcad Lapo (n=kvirc@81-208-74-176.ip.fastwebnet.it)
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21:52.32brlcad~pastebin
21:52.33ibotpastebin is, like, a place to paste your stuff without flooding the channel - try http://pastebin.com/, or http://pastebin.ca, or http://channels.debian.net/paste, or for #oe use http://oe.pastebin.com, or http://bzflag.pastebin.ca/
21:52.34Laposorry I was banned cause flooding
21:56.55Lapohttp://pastebin.ca/82749
21:59.45brlcadecho $LD_LIBRARY_PATH
21:59.52Lapothanks for the tip :-)
21:59.59Lapook
22:00.22brlcadin general if it's more than 4 lines, use pastebin :)
22:00.35Lapook ;-)
22:00.46Lapoehm... no output
22:00.46brlcadalso: ldd /usr/brlcad/bin/mged
22:00.53brlcadokay, that's fine
22:02.19Lapohttp://pastebin.ca/82754
22:02.47LapoI suppose I have to check if I have all these library now
22:03.17brlcadno, you have them or the output would be different
22:03.27Lapook
22:03.52brlcadwhat's odd is that it can't find Tk_Init
22:04.33LapoI got a similar problem months ago when installed an older version of brlcad
22:05.07brlcadnm /usr/brlcad/lib/libtk.a | grep Tk_Init | grep -v U
22:05.58Lapo00000358 T Tk_InitOptions
22:05.58Lapo00000000 T Tk_InitConsoleChannels
22:05.58Lapo00000000 T Tk_InitImageArgs
22:06.09Lapo00000000 T Tk_InitImageArgs
22:06.10Lapo00000000 T Tk_InitStubs
22:06.10Lapo00001c50 T Tk_Init
22:06.46brlcadbaffling
22:06.57brlcadyou have Tk_Init right there
22:07.22Lapoyeah
22:07.44brlcadyou might have to just compile the package yourself
22:08.06Lapowow
22:08.12brlcadit's pretty simple
22:08.12Lapothat's an hard task :-)
22:08.17Lapooh ok
22:08.37Lapoor maybe I'll use the Windows version
22:08.57brlcaddownload this: http://prdownloads.sourceforge.net/brlcad/brlcad-7.8.2.tar.bz2?download
22:09.14Lapook now I try
22:09.30brlcadthen when it decompresses, run "./configure --enable-optimized"
22:09.54brlcadthen "make", then "sudo make install" or however you become superuser to install binaries
22:10.06brlcaddelete everything in /usr/brlcad before you start
22:10.22Lapook
22:15.25Lapoconfigure gone
22:15.33Laponow make
22:24.22Lapomake still running....
22:43.10Lapomake ok
22:43.16Laponow make install
22:45.38brlcadsee, not so painful
22:45.47Lapo:-D
22:46.11Lapofinish
22:46.24Lapodamn
22:46.29Laposame problem
22:46.34brlcadreally?
22:46.43LapoInitializing and backgrounding, please wait...mged: symbol lookup error: mged: undefined symbol: Tk_Init
22:46.52Lapo:-(
22:47.14brlcadtry mged -c
22:47.24brlcaddoes it still give that error?
22:47.30Lapono
22:47.36Lapoit aske me for an input
22:47.48Lapo(nu|X|ogl|)
22:47.49brlcadhit enter
22:48.04brlcadyou're at an mged prompt?
22:48.07Laponow I have "mged>"
22:48.11Lapoyes
22:48.21brlcadrun "gui"
22:48.43Lapoinvalid command "gui"
22:49.40LapoIt works!!!
22:49.42Lapofinally
22:49.49brlcadhrm?
22:49.58LapoI started mged from /usr/brlcad/bin
22:50.18Lapobefore I was starting it by typing simply mged
22:50.19brlcadyou mean you changed directories to there?
22:50.40brlcador just typed it all out?
22:50.53Lapoif I run locate mged:
22:52.10Lapo"/usr/bin/mged"
22:52.20Lapo"/usr/brlcad/bin/mged"
22:52.31LapoI have two mged....
22:52.37brlcad/usr/bin ... wicked..
22:52.44Lapoyes
22:53.34LapoNow I'm ready to explore brlcad
22:53.40Lapothanks a lot :-D
22:54.36brlcadhow'd you get an mged in /usr/bin?
22:54.51LapoI don't know
22:55.05Lapomaybe I copied it there in a past installation
22:55.21LapoDo you think it's better to delete it?
22:56.51brlcadprobably
22:56.59Lapook
22:57.01brlcadthe problem is who knows what else you copied there :)
22:57.14brlcadwhat does ldd /usr/bin/mged say?
22:57.16LapoLOL
22:58.40Lapohttp://pastebin.ca/82798
23:00.55brlcadahhh
23:00.58brlcadthat explains it
23:01.08brlcadthat mged wasn't linked against Tk
23:01.21Lapoouch
23:02.48Lapothanks for your support
23:02.53Lapobye ;-)
23:02.56brlcadno problem
23:02.59brlcadglad it works
23:03.10*** part/#brlcad Lapo (n=kvirc@81-208-74-176.ip.fastwebnet.it)
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Jeff Waugh - find it at freshmeat.net! Modified by Tim Riker to work with blootbot logs, split per channel, etc. irclog2html for #brlcad on 20060709

irclog2html for #brlcad on 20060709

01:07.24*** join/#brlcad IriX64 (n=mario_du@toronto-HSE-ppp4310781.sympatico.ca)
01:07.42IriX64regards again.
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02:57.45IriX64fark man, sorry this client has a mind of its own:)
03:15.16IriX64<- chillx has left mensa
03:15.20IriX64:)
03:37.30IriX64nite all
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09:08.36CIA-2BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/doc/.cvsignore: initial .cvsignore file to ignore the generated pad_file.xml
09:13.38CIA-2BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/ (5 files in 3 dirs): add error checking to various read() calls where a potential -1 result read error was not being taken into account
09:25.54CIA-2BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/libbu/mread.c:
09:25.54CIA-2BRL-CAD: initial bu_mread() function to refactor the plethora of custom mread() variants
09:25.54CIA-2BRL-CAD: throughout the code. bu_mread() keeps reading until the requested number of
09:25.55CIA-2BRL-CAD: bytes are read or an error occurs, an important behavior for pipes.
09:26.34CIA-2BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/include/bu.h: export the new bu_mread() function call so everyone gets to use it
09:26.55CIA-2BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/libbu/Makefile.am: add mread.c to the libbu build
09:29.17CIA-2BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/canon/png-ipu.c: unnecessary mread declaration
09:29.53CIA-2BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/canon/ (pix-ipu.c Makefile.am): refactored mread to libbu, so use bu_mread now
09:31.30CIA-2BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/canon/mread.c: remove the refactored mread.c file, moved to libbu/mread.c
09:44.45CIA-2BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/libpkg/pkg.c: remove the useful 'example' mread code that was replaced by pkg_inget since mread is now available in libbu as bu_mread. reorder pkg_inget so a decl is unnecessary.
09:47.04CIA-2BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/libbu/mread.c: attribute kudos to at least one of the apparent original authors (even though it's been reworked some), Robert S. Miles.
09:50.14CIA-2BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/AUTHORS: miles seems to have been a code contributor, not just special thanks (mread() comments)
09:50.59CIA-2BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/ (fb/Makefile.am fb/bw-fb.c fb/pix-fb.c libfb/if_ab.c): refactor utilizing bu_mread now from libbu
09:52.50CIA-2BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/libbu/mread.c: wrong file name in header, use mread.c
10:03.08CIA-2BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/ (include/bu.h src/libbu/mread.c): change the function signature from using ints to using long ints for the count, take a void* like read(), return a long (fixing the previous bogus void)
10:03.31*** join/#brlcad matt_ezeki_230 (n=matt@host-84-223-139-40.cust-adsl.tiscali.it)
10:05.10matt_ezeki_230hi to everybody...
10:05.57matt_ezeki_230i'm a new user of this powerfull cad and i've a question for you....
10:08.30matt_ezeki_230i wonder if there is a way to insert cartesian reference frame (x-y-z axes with arrows) to obtain something like in figure 6 at page 18 of document "Volume III...."
10:09.41CIA-2BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/util/Makefile.am: few more binaries rely on libbu (mread refactoring)
10:11.14CIA-2BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/util/ (7 files): refactor the mread() calls to the new bu_mread() call. the bu_mread() function doesn't call perror for you, so the caller may need to if they expected it before.
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10:12.57matt_ezeki_230"VolumeIII-Principles_of_Effective_Modeling.pdf"
10:13.08matt_ezeki_230http://ftp.brlcad.org/VolumeIII-Principles_of_Effective_Modeling.pdf
10:13.10brlcadmatt_ezeki_230: you can turn on reference coordinate axes similar to that diagram in mged
10:14.02brlcadunder the... Modes menu
10:14.10brlcadselect Axes
10:14.30brlcadprobably want model or view
10:15.14brlcadthat will not be a coordinate axis that renders, of course -- it's wireframe only -- you'd have to add geometry to get one to render
10:15.45brlcadhave a fancy one around here somewhere..
10:20.21matt_ezeki_230brlcad thanks a million for your prompt answer
10:20.22clock_brlcad: wipeooooout ;-)
10:21.30matt_ezeki_230i already known this feature... i would like insert "manually" a reference frame drawing arrows and inserting symbols like x y z letters
10:21.36matt_ezeki_230is it possible?
10:22.43matt_ezeki_230i'd draw arrows like lines... i've heard autocad does this and i wonder if brlcad does this too
10:23.29clock_brlcad: Unable to find '/lib/libplatic.so' within the BRL-CAD software installation
10:23.36clock_libplatic? isn't that a typo?
10:28.49CIA-2BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/other/URToolkit/cnv/rletorla.c: apply Karel Kulhavy's (clock3) patch regarding a 'Tiny bug prevents compilation on OpenBSD' (sf patch 1519270)
10:30.07brlcadmatt_ezeki_230: hmm
10:31.04brlcadmatt_ezeki_230: there is a means to draw pretty much any arbitrary line data into the display manager gui, you can use plot file overlays for example
10:32.01brlcadnot one that will automatically draw the arrows per se, but you could contruct arrows using that method relatively easily enough
10:32.49brlcadclock_: yes, that's a typo in your .g .. there's some geometry object in there that has a material property set to "platic" instead of "plastic"
10:33.08brlcadnot a typo in the library, typo in the geometry that you can/should fix ..
10:33.37brlcadif it's not obvious which object has that, you can use g2asc and search for the string with a text editor
10:35.25clock_brlcad: I already found that, thanks
10:35.33clock_brlcad: but rt shouldn't segfault on an invalid input file.
10:36.29matt_ezeki_230plot file overlays? i'm a new user of brlcad ... can you reference a document or a guide which explains this procedure? and when you say "display manager gui", do you mean "command window" or "graphics window"?
10:39.39brlcadclock_: I quite agree.. though technically it didn't segfault -- it aborted gracefully
10:39.49CIA-2BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/AUTHORS:
10:39.50CIA-2BRL-CAD: special thanks to karel kulhavy (clock3) for his contributions to date including
10:39.50CIA-2BRL-CAD: numerous bug reports, a source patch, and several example geometric databases
10:39.50CIA-2BRL-CAD: relating to his work on Ronja (http://ronja.twibright.com/3d/)
10:40.59clock_brlcad: no it printed an error message and then segfaulted
10:41.17clock_brlcad: lol re the credits
10:41.51clock_brlcad: did you put Ronja *.g files as examples into brlcad?
10:41.59brlcadmatt_ezeki_230: the graphics window contains a 3D "display manager" and you can optionally enable/disable a 2D "framebuffer" that is overlayed/underlayed on the display manager -- they are completely separate and independant, but display together
10:42.21clock_brlcad: you could put some files on the website so people will not think "that's for designing tanks too complicated for me"
10:42.39brlcadclock_: hmm.. well, it's not "supposed" to segfault.. might be collateral damage during the early shutdown
10:42.59brlcadno biggie, that error message is enormously unuseful (and even unintentional that you get to see it)
10:43.25clock_brlcad: it should call exit(1) or something like that
10:43.25brlcadit's on the todo list to get rid of it and do what we used to do (handle the problem more gracefully, ignore the typo, etc)
10:43.51brlcadclock_: it does -- but something else must have been going on, perhaps other cleanup
10:44.14brlcaddid not put the ronja .g files in as example, just referenced them
10:45.13brlcadif you made a single .g that had an entire Ronja apparatus setup embedded with a single top-level object, I would -- i.e. a single model showing the entire setup, with all the pieces put together
10:45.58clock_brlcad: oh, you already have a reasonably simple bicycle wheel
10:46.21brlcadmatt_ezeki_230: hm.. reference document.. yes and no.. there are manpages for all of the plot tools as well as the plot description file format -- the commands are listed in the MGED Quick Reference sheet on the main site
10:52.04matt_ezeki_230brlcad: ok. just a summing up... i'd create a rigid body and save it as *.plot file using overlay capability. Then, i should edit that file (how? gnu plot?) for manually drawing a line. Right? And i can find usefull indications in http://ftp.brlcad.org/MGED_Quick_Reference_Card.pdf
10:53.50CIA-2BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/ (canon/pix-ipu.c libfb/if_ab.c libpkg/pkg.c): more mread() cleanup.
10:58.00brlcadmatt_ezeki_230: there's several possible routes.. what is your end goal?
10:59.22brlcadgenerating a diagram like the one in vol III? and if so .. what kind of diagram?
11:00.13brlcadray-traced raster image, hidden line raster image rendering, wireframe non-hidden image (like mged's wireframe), something else?
11:09.47matt_ezeki_230brlcad: i should generate a diagram which contains multiple cylinders interconnects each others with lines. Because each cylinder is a revolute joint it has a rotation axis and a "rotation direction" (clockwise or anticlockwise). So i must draw an arrow that indicates the "direction". Then i should generate a rigid body with a cartesian reference frame (x-y-z axes) in the same diagram. So i've asked if there is (or there are
11:09.47matt_ezeki_230) simple ways to drawing arrows as lines and inserting symbols as letters x y z. Then i give the command "rtedge -W -s1024 -o file.pix" for rendering
11:11.11brlcadahh, so for hidden line raster image drawings.. presumably from arbitrary orientations too
11:12.00matt_ezeki_230yes arbitrary orientations too
11:12.07brlcadthe best way that comes to mind for doing that will be to actually utilize reference geometry that is exactly what you suggest
11:12.13brlcadlet me see if I can find one here
11:14.46brlcadmatt_ezeki_230: how about something like this: http://ftp.brlcad.org/images/aet/diagram.png
11:15.17brlcadi can provide you the geometry for that image that you could embed into your scene for rendering positioned wherever you like it
11:16.18brlcadthe problem is that the text in that image was not added in brl-cad (though it could have been), it was done outboard in an image app since i didn't want alignment in 3d, I wanted it aligned with the 2d projection
11:16.51brlcadwithout the text, you end up with something like: http://ftp.brlcad.org/images/aet/diagram3.png
11:17.38matt_ezeki_230perfect! thanks a million!!!! could you provide the geometry, please?
11:17.47matt_ezeki_230dont'care about text...
11:17.53brlcadthose coordinates are of course pretty trivial to modify, can get rid of the AET arrows and just use axes arros for example
11:22.42matt_ezeki_230yes certainly... so can i find the way to create the arrowhead and the "arrowbody" reading volumeII...?
11:32.33brlcadyeah, volume II covers the basics of modeling .. basically just a bunch of connected cylinders
11:33.01brlcadokay, i've found the model .. give me a couple minutes to clean it up, and I'll post it up
11:34.34brlcaddo you want the middle az/el twist arrows or just the coordinate axes?
11:49.45brlcadmatt_ezeki_230: http://ftp.brlcad.org/geometry/axes.g
11:52.08brlcadthree top-level examples, one is the one you saw rendered (aet), another is just the coordinate axes (xyz.r), another is just one pointing arrow (arrow.r) .. you can make other variations by looking down into the aet object, for example if you wanted to make a copy of aet without material properties set
11:58.02^EugenicsIs there any plans for a drafting tool for brlcad?
11:58.55^EugenicsOr a tool that would make drafting with a 2d cad app more easy.
12:03.26brlcadit's a highly requested and desireable feature of course, and it's on the (massive) todo list
12:04.00brlcadbut we're mainly at a shortage of developer resources to drive more implementation of that and other similar features
12:04.19brlcadit will be a core design trait of the next modeler to come about, but that's still rather long-term away
12:05.33brlcadas for integrating with other 2d cad apps, it wouldn't be too difficult to hook into qcad or some similar program for drafting, but even that has some limitations and would require a lot of details to get worked out
12:35.08clock_brlcad: I would appreciate it too. I could design a part for Ronja first in Brlcad, and then derive 2D drafts from that.
12:35.39clock_brlcad: I am using qcad on Ronja
12:43.57^Eugenicsa good 2d export of chosen views would be great.
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15:28.35CIA-2BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/fb/ (cat-fb.c fb-bw.c fb-orle.c): cleanup
18:03.33CIA-2BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/util/Makefile.am: revive lowp adding it back to the build, not clear why it was disabled.
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18:04.15CIA-2BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/util/lowp.c: revive lowp, updating the code to use bu_malloc instead of malloc and adding additional error checking for the read() calls
18:26.02CIA-2BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/ (32 files in 10 dirs): add additional error checking to make sure a -1 return value from read() is handled
18:26.32CIA-2BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/util/.cvsignore: add lowp to the ignore list
18:29.01CIA-2BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/doc/ (bw.5 pix.5): what the heck is a hire size
19:17.47CIA-2BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/ (39 files in 14 dirs): increase and initialize some buffer sizes to something larger in order to minimize hitting buffer limits while processing.
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19:57.50CIA-2BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/util/pixbustup.c: rwval, now readval
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20:46.57brlcadwoot, good game
20:52.12CIA-2BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/include/nmg.h: bzero define block is a duplicate of said block in machine.h, removed.
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21:16.51CIA-2BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/configure.ac: add setvbuf and setlinebuf to the function check list
21:17.17CIA-2BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/include/config_win.h: win32 reportedly has setvbuf
21:22.53CIA-2BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/libbu/linebuf.c: remove the antiquated preprocessor logic for bu_setlinebuf, using a configure check instead allowing the code to be simplified considerably
21:23.40CIA-2BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/lgt/lgt.c: do what burst does with the signals, clean up the preprocessor logic slightly, ws
21:26.02CIA-2BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/burst/ (burst.c grid.c): whitespace, cleanup, bye bye SYSV and STD_C defines
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21:57.45LapoHi all guys ;-)
22:23.22brlcadhowdy!
22:23.34brlcadquite a game eh? :)
22:27.59Lapohey @brlcad :-)
22:28.35LapoI've started to play around brlcad
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23:39.38CIA-2BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/configure.ac: sans stray v
Jeff Waugh - find it at freshmeat.net! Modified by Tim Riker to work with blootbot logs, split per channel, etc. irclog2html for #brlcad on 20060710

irclog2html for #brlcad on 20060710

00:43.15CIA-2BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/libfb/tcl.c: add some error checking to fb_refresh in case there is a caller that passes a null or unnamed framebuffer, or nothing left to do with a non-positive width/height rect
01:26.11CIA-2BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/ (9 files in 6 dirs): remove/rewrite a bunch of the old SYSV preprocessor symbol sections
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02:14.22IriX64vmware rocks.
02:14.48IriX64tried linux 6.0 in a vm.
02:14.56IriX64booted but no go.
02:15.12IriX64so i resorted to another os.
02:15.30IriX64warp crawls on it.
02:15.38IriX64but does run.
03:00.16IriX64l8r
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11:15.20fennbrlcad: is terrylr's work with step import in cvs anywhere?
12:50.45brlcadfenn: no, it's not -- I do, however, have a local version of the updated nist express parser
12:51.40brlcadfenn: if there is interest in picking up development, I can try to get in touch with terry to get his latest code if he's willing
13:00.37CIA-2BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/HACKING: send news announcements to the new Dutch CAD for Linux portal at http://www.cad4linux.nl
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14:03.30brlcadfenn, let me know if you didn't get the reply on the step importer
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14:05.58clock_brlcad: is it possible to surf in florida?
14:12.43CIA-2BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/libbu/getopt.c: ws
14:17.16CIA-2BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/libsysv/ (Makefile.am getopt.c): remove getopt.c as it is no longer needed. code should be using libbu's bu_getopt.
14:21.41brlcadclock_: sorta.. not very well in most places though
14:22.11brlcadthose are nice really long calm beaches mostly
14:23.00clock_if a beach is long does it mean it's calm?
15:39.01brlcadclock_: this is pretty typical: http://www.beach-hotels.org/images/miami-beach-hotels.jpg
15:39.06brlcadlook like you could surf that? :)
16:39.45CIA-2BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/libsysv/memset.c: add the license header, intending to get rid of the duplicate src/libbu/memset.c, updating ws while we're at it.
16:42.18CIA-2BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/libbu/ (Makefile.am memset.c): remove memset.c from libbu. memset() is provided by libsysv if it's not available. doesn't make sense as part of libbu unless we plan on making a bu_memset or somesuch.
17:00.57CIA-2BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/liborle/rle.c: get rid of the old commented out 'speed boost' code that avoided the 'expensive' getc() call
17:01.59CIA-2BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/liborle/rle.c: also get rid of the old commented out 'speed boost' code that avoided the 'expensive putc() call
17:05.33CIA-2BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/configure.ac: check for winsock.h header
17:06.29CIA-2BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/include/config_win.h: windows generally has the winsock.h header if we're compiling there .. it's a better define than _WIN32 for the windows platform when dealing with network code
17:07.43CIA-2BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/libpkg/pkg.c: get rid of the now unused BSD define hack. use the configure check header symbols instead of platform foo including the new HAVE_WINSOCK_H
17:33.52clock_brlcad: definitely not. But what if such a beach receives waves big enough? Is it surfable then?
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18:01.57brlcadthat's a big if
18:02.06brlcadprobably means a hurricane is coming
18:10.21CIA-2BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/libsysv/bsdselect.c: update to 1990, assume basic bsd/posix conformance and availability of select. get rid of BSD defines.
18:34.23CIA-2BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/util/ttcp.c: remove the old BSD hack as the define is no longer necessary nor used by the BRL-CAD build system any longer
19:06.57CIA-2BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/ (19 files in 13 dirs): refactor away the old BSD block defines among other simple cleanup
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19:47.14LapoHi all ;-)
19:52.01brlcadhowdy Lapo
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21:05.56bjorkBSDaloha folks.
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Jeff Waugh - find it at freshmeat.net! Modified by Tim Riker to work with blootbot logs, split per channel, etc. irclog2html for #brlcad on 20060711

irclog2html for #brlcad on 20060711

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02:29.30bjorkBSDoh. irix.
02:29.40bjorkBSDdoes brlcad work on irix?
02:59.06IriX64brlcad works on anything :)
02:59.45IriX64kids want thr rec room, bbiab. don't let them annoy you :)
03:30.31IriX64oh bjorkBSD does brlcad work on BSD?
03:32.07IriX64cd /usr/linuxbrlcad/bin
03:32.13IriX64ermf.
03:32.59IriX64haha.. ./mged ...doesnt work on irc tho bjorkBSD
03:48.31brlcadbjorkBSD: but of course it does, quite an extensive irix heritage
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03:50.45IriX64heh
03:50.50IriX64Frame  0:     476100 rays   in      0.50 sec =    952200.00 rays/sec (RTFM)
03:50.58IriX64does it run?
03:51.51IriX64thats wave.g llview
03:52.25IriX64munchies bbiab.
03:55.02brlcadthat's starting to look more reasonable rtfm's
04:25.05IriX64Frame  0:     643481 rays   in      4.11 sec =    156564.72 rays/sec (RTFM) ==bldg391
04:25.44IriX64sigh bed time nytol :)
04:29.19bjorkBSDwhat do you guys use brlcad for?
04:33.51fennbrlcad was designed for simulating tanks shooting each other and getting blown up by nuclear bombs
04:34.07bjorkBSDah okay.
04:34.11bjorkBSDis that what you use it for, fenn?
04:34.13fennno
04:34.33bjorkBSDpanzer simulations for the history channel :)
04:34.35brlcadheh, primarily for vulnerability and lethality analyses
04:34.38brlcadof all sorts
04:34.48bjorkBSDhmm i see.
04:34.50fenni wanted a free/libre parametric solid modeler that ran on linux
04:35.00fennfor designing.. stuff
04:35.05bjorkBSDlike what, fenn?
04:35.12bjorkBSDnosey, i know.
04:35.12brlcadmodeling military assets, performing analysis and engineering studies on the models, comparing to real-world results
04:35.27fennlike robot parts, turbine engines, machine tools
04:35.30bjorkBSDhmmm. including the engines, brlcad?
04:35.35brlcadmm.. parametrics
04:35.47brlcadhope that have that integrated soon
04:35.56bjorkBSDi see i see.
04:36.05bjorkBSDso it compares with solidworks, right?
04:36.12fenni saw that was in the database format (?) but there's no way to access it?
04:36.40brlcadbjorkBSD: only somewhat.. they are both inherintly solid modelers with a vast overlap of functionality
04:37.09fenni've never used solidworks but i'm tempted to say "no"
04:37.14brlcadsome things brl-cad does considerably better, lots solidworks does better (e.g. gui stuff)
04:37.55brlcadbrl-cad's worst aspect at the current moment is the mged modeler, which most unfortunately equate as mged == brl-cad which is quite far from the truth
04:38.03fennbrlcad: do you keep odd hours or are you just always at your computer? or both?
04:38.10brlcadfenn: yes :)
04:38.16fennme too :)
04:38.26bjorkBSDah okay.
04:38.35bjorkBSDso you're saying the interface is a drawback?
04:39.04fennespecially for people who like to use the mouse
04:39.58bjorkBSDah okay.
04:40.06bjorkBSDthe interface ... hmm.
04:40.16brlcadbjorkBSD: the gui interface of mged is not what most people expect/want, though the command line and feature-wise it is quite powerful
04:40.34brlcadfull vehicles are actually modeled with it, down to the nut bolt and wire
04:40.41brlcadinside and out
04:40.44bjorkBSDit occured to me on saturday at about when was it? 2:38 pm i think(?) that the manual/tutorials are part of a software's interface.
04:41.06fenni wouldnt go that far
04:41.43fennan interface can be self documenting, yes, but it doesnt mean the documentation is the interface
04:41.47bjorkBSDwhy not? it's an indirect interface.
04:41.58brlcadsomethings that brl-cad does do better than most -- our raytracing of implicits and even explicits is better (faster, more accurate) that pretty much every other major CAD vendor
04:42.25brlcadwe're also of course extensively cross-platform where most limit to one or a few
04:42.54brlcadnot to mention the only OSI-open source production quality solid modeling system
04:43.24fenni'm not sure i understand what "solid modeling" means anymore
04:43.34fennsince you can do csg with meshes in blender
04:44.12brlcadbrl-cad "geometric engine" is pretty robust, forms the basis for at least a dozen analysis codes as their data management interface, geometric analysis, ray-tracing, shotlining, etc
04:44.41brlcadblender is far from a solid modeler
04:44.48brlcadyou don't need CSG to be a solid modeler
04:46.04brlcadyou need guaranteed surface topology, crack-free surface analysis, numerical stability, a solid concept and implementation of an object's interior and exterior (generally for some engineering or analysis purpose)
04:46.08fennyou do need solid modeling to do csg right?
04:46.25brlcadno, you don't
04:46.57brlcadCSG simply comes from set theory and can be applied to many domains (including arbitrary mesh topology)
04:47.24bjorkBSDuh oh. did you say set theory? :-S
04:48.00fennbjorkBSD: this is one of the few major areas of applied math :)
04:48.34bjorkBSDset theory?
04:48.38bjorkBSDye gads.
04:48.40fenn3d modeling and simulation
04:48.59bjorkBSDoh.
04:49.00bjorkBSD<PROTECTED>
04:50.21bjorkBSDbrlcad, what do you use it for?
04:51.24brlcadi'm a dev, I yearn to improve the package and implement features people want
04:51.33bjorkBSDoh okay.
04:51.49bjorkBSDit's written in C?
04:51.52bjorkBSDor c++?
04:52.31brlcadnumber one on that list is a new modeler that leverages some of the better aspects of mged, humane interface design, and just an overall better scalable software architecture
04:52.45brlcadthe vast majority is C
04:53.24brlcadthe new modeler is going to be in C++, though utilizing most of the existing C libraries in brl-cad (there are over a dozen)
04:53.50bjorkBSDc++?
04:55.11brlcadit's plugin based with a swappable scripting engine so that various interpreted languages can also be integrated (tcl, python, and bash for starters, maybe also lisp/scheme and perl)
04:56.51bjorkBSDsounds cool.
04:57.13bjorkBSDi wonder what an interface to a program like brl-cad should be like :-?
04:59.34brlcadbrl-cad is a suite of programs and functionality for starters
04:59.47brlcadso any "interface program" needs to leverage that
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13:56.14CIA-9BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/util/dunncomm.c: tty.sg_* is not mixable with ioctl/termios so make it a #else
14:10.49clock_brlcad: I got the idea that I could try making an official brlcad install package for openbsd.
14:11.27brlcadgo for it
14:12.14brlcadthere's no official openbsd maintainer, so that certainly could be you if you're up to it
14:15.08clock_How much time from me would it require?
14:21.40brlcadheh
14:21.58brlcadhow would I know that?
14:23.52clock_so better not be official maintainer. I am already taken enough with Ronja.
14:23.59brlcadi wouldn't imagine very much once you built a couple release packages -- could even potentially automate the process
14:26.39CIA-9BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/configure.ac: add a header check for dslib.h and libds for SDL /dev/scsi library availability. src/canon needs it.
14:32.49CIA-9BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/canon/Makefile.am: add LIBDS to the link list, IRIX systems actually compile in functionality provided by that generic SCSI library
14:35.30CIA-9BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/canon/ (canon.h canonize.c ipuscan.c ipustat.c pix-ipu.c png-ipu.c): clean up the code to remove the #if IRIX junk and instead consistently use IPU_FULL_LIB which is declared by the canon.h interface header, and that define is set when dslib.h was detected by configure.
14:46.17clock_brlcad: what does the word surfari mean?
14:48.26brlcadgoing on a surfing adventure
14:49.14clock_Is it a noun or verb?
14:50.19brlcada noun
14:50.36brlcadit's not a real word (at least not yet), but surfing vernacular afaik
14:51.47clock_what does make surfing an adventure?
14:52.26clock_isn't surfing by default considered an adventure?
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14:55.13brlcadyou know what a safari is, yes?
14:55.34clock_yes you go between lions and zebras
14:55.37brlcadyou go on a trip, an adventure, to see wildlife of some sort
14:55.56brlcada surfari would be a similar trip to go around to various places and surf
14:55.59clock_I thought safari is a zoo without the fences
14:56.08clock_ah OK now I understand
14:56.16clock_kinda Swedish table for surfers
14:56.37clock_does it become boring on a single spot?
14:56.56brlcadfor some probably
14:57.27clock_have you ever been surfing?
14:57.45brlcadhttp://www.surfaricharters.com/
14:58.37brlcaderhm, we talked about surfing just last summer.. yes i have :)
14:58.37brlcadyou were asking about santa monica and boarding at the time
14:59.44clock_brlcad: I don't puff I don't need to I get the effect even without puffing
15:00.01clock_Yes I remember asking about santa monica
15:00.20clock_and did you like it?
15:01.40brlcadi love surfing
15:01.53brlcadquite a thrill
15:02.02clock_do you still go?
15:02.12brlcadwhen I get the chance
15:02.24clock_where did you use to go?
15:02.31brlcadthere's no surfing on the east coast, only when I travel out west to cali
15:02.49clock_what attracts me the most that there's no solid object that would require a care
15:03.20brlcadhmm?
15:03.29clock_like with skateboarding I have to stay sane
15:03.39brlcadyou have to care for your board, that takes quite a lot of attention
15:03.45clock_especially considering that I am carrying a laptop on my back, which is not mine but employers
15:04.00clock_I mean no ground that could hit you
15:04.12brlcadheh
15:04.40brlcadhaving a 10 foot wave hit you is a lot like having the ground hit you
15:04.43clock_I have to care about my skateboard too when the bearing stop running smoothly I disassemble them wash them out with meth and then reassemble and lubricate
15:04.59brlcadplus you get the trill of very possibly drowning each time :)
15:05.19brlcadthrill even
15:05.53clock_that's the thrill you love on surfing?
15:06.19brlcadnah, it's more than that
15:06.27clock_I guess it's possible to surf something smaller
15:06.54clock_what's the minimum size for surfing?
15:07.03brlcadthe sun, the surf, the waves, the hot ladies, the speed of riding in with a wave
15:07.22brlcadminimum size?
15:07.30brlcadwell, there's hot guys for you ;)
15:07.36clock_that's better :)
15:07.49clock_what speed does the wave make?
15:08.10brlcad*shrug*
15:08.16clock_40mph?
15:08.42brlcadi doubt it, but I have no idea
15:09.27clock_does the have have to be on a shallow bottom to be surfable?
15:09.43brlcadnope, you just need a wave
15:10.28brlcadyou going surfing or something, what's the sudden curiosity?
15:10.41clock_I don't know some crosstalk in my head
15:11.23brlcadso not puffing anything, but maybe that ground has hit you a little too hard on the noggin' a few too many times.. :)
15:11.35clock_I would like to go surfing, if it didn't cost much and wasn't in some obscure country which is either dangerous or I don't understand their local speech
15:12.06clock_I haven't fallen on the skateboard
15:12.12clock_actually have but only 2 times
15:12.27brlcada basic surf board doesn't cost a lot more than a really nice skateboard
15:12.29clock_OK 3 times
15:13.01brlcadcouple hundred bucks, less for a beginner board
15:13.08clock_getting the board is trivial. The waves are much worse.
15:13.26brlcadyeah, you're not exactly close to waves :)
15:13.49clock_I surf the sun waves but that's not exactly the same
15:13.55brlcadthere ya go, http://www.surfaricharters.com/surfingnicaragua.htm
15:14.41clock_http://ronja.twibright.com/drawings/sunwaves.png
15:14.59clock_http://ronja.twibright.com/drawings/ronja_back.png
15:15.25clock_I made a t-shirt. Fluorescent orange on dark blue. The wife of my boss said she needs sunglasses to view my t-shirt :)
15:15.41clock_And the wave is taken from how the receiver output looks on osciloscope
15:16.38brlcadhas ronja ever been /.'d?
15:17.00clock_yes twice
15:17.11brlcadthought so, just wondering
15:17.28clock_once directly once together with couple other projects
15:17.41clock_hmm but nicarague that's far
15:18.25clock_the question is how long it takes until I stop being unusable on the board
15:19.04brlcadonce you get going with a wave, you can ride it all the way in to shore pretty easily
15:20.05brlcadusually hop off before you get to shore so you don't mess up the board or fin on sand/rocks
15:20.17clock_My aunt has a windsurf and a house next to a lake and she lend it to me and my brother.
15:20.42clock_Brother was trying to ride the contraption, but I removed the unnecessary unmasterable foily thing and enjoyed paddling
15:21.46clock_cause we go to lunch to the lake and the normal shorts dry out too long :D
15:22.09clock_is it big difference between normal surfboard and windsurf board?
15:23.14brlcadno idea, never been windsurfing
15:24.06clock_I don't like the idea of windsurfing. Too complicated for me. Surfing has an elegance of simplicity
15:24.16clock_Even simpler than a snowboard :)
15:25.43clock_how long is it since you've been last time?
15:27.41brlcadlast summery
15:28.19clock_hehe :)
15:28.28clock_california?
15:28.34brlcadyes
15:29.13clock_I talked with someone from san diego and he said the water is dirty that he used to get sick from that
15:29.21clock_is it really dirty?
15:29.59brlcadnah, people from san diego are just really picky
15:30.08brlcad*ahem* :)
15:30.20ValarQyeah, right :)
15:31.32CIA-9BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/mged/ged.h: declare is_dm_null() and mged_link_vars() so callers don't have to
15:31.33brlcadlast time I was in san diego, the ocean was really clean
15:32.04brlcadall up and down the coast for that matter.. beautiful water
15:32.08clock_brlcad: how long does it take to somehow basically learn?
15:32.41*** join/#brlcad b0ef (n=b0ef@062016141085.customer.alfanett.no)
15:32.50brlcadi learned the basics in just a couple hours, enough to stand up and ride a wave for a few seconds and that was on a bad weather day
15:33.04clock_which weather is bad?
15:33.08clock_rain and thunderstorm?
15:33.23brlcadno, hard winds
15:33.26b0efehlo
15:33.30b0efI'm a little confused; does brl-cad do full NURBS?
15:33.35brlcadmakes for really sharp waves, rather difficult for a newbie
15:33.45brlcadb0ef: yes and no
15:34.12brlcadb0ef: there is a full nurbs primitive implementation, but it's not tied into the mged modeler
15:34.34brlcadso while they can exist and be ray-traced.. you can't easily make nurbs objects outside of code
15:35.10clock_brlcad: I like software projects where I can talk with the main developer about surfing instead of about how asocial they are and how long it was since they saw the last female
15:35.22b0efbrlcad: what about NURBS curves inside mged?
15:35.54b0efbrlcad: or what about bezier?
15:36.08CIA-9BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/mged/ged.c: ged.h now declares the attach.c funcs
15:36.19brlcadb0ef: what do you mean "what about" them?
15:36.23CIA-9BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/mged/clone.c: ged.h declares is_dm_null() now, bump clone version in anticipation of getting it to work here shortly
15:36.39b0efbrlcad: am I able to draw bezier curves inside mged?
15:36.40brlcadyou can see them, render them, move them about.. just not easy to make them using mged
15:36.44brlcadahh
15:37.02brlcadyou can draw bezier curves using the sketch editor for the sketch primitive
15:37.32b0efbrlcad: nice; is it possible to calculate an offset curve?
15:37.46brlcadand that can be linearly extruded, but not quite the same beast as full creation/edit support of nurbs/bsplines
15:37.48clock_brlcad: you said once something about some brlcad conference...
15:38.00clock_is the conference on some nice surf spot? :D
15:38.30brlcadclock_: nope, but it is at the top of the chesapeake.. great boating and food
15:39.13b0efbrlcad: my goal is to trace a picture with bezier; then calculate some offset curves; I seem to find no application that is able to do that;)
15:39.46brlcadb0ef: oof :)
15:40.15brlcadi'm not sure brl-cad is going to be considerably much help in that regard as well. at least with respect to the offset curves
15:40.24ValarQbrlcad: which chesapeake?
15:40.26clock_b0ef: you can trace with sodipodi or inkscape, but I don't know what offset curves are
15:40.47b0efclock_: http://wiki.inkscape.org/wiki/index.php/PathEstimation
15:40.50brlcadi know a variety of ways to fake the offset within a given numerical tolerance
15:41.48brlcadassuming you have some geometry that defines an outline, the rtedge ray-trace tool will outline an object -- you can feed a line thickness (i.e. an offset) to the tool which it will then use to render the picture
15:42.08brlcadthat of course only works for discrete linear offsets
15:42.20b0efbrlcad: sure, but I need the offset curve; a curve I can further manipulate
15:42.45brlcadyou'd then retrace the raster image's curve.. *ahem*
15:42.53b0efbrlcad: no way;)
15:43.18b0ef<PROTECTED>
15:43.18b0efit's actually a road
15:43.28b0efI trace the left part of the road, then calculate the right side
15:44.19brlcadahh, so not even a centerline
15:44.27b0efyeah
15:44.56brlcadsounds like it's purely a 2D task as well?
15:45.02b0efyes
15:45.30brlcadyou actually might be better off with something like photoshop or even better, illustrator
15:45.47brlcadwhere the path can easily be traced and it'll do left/right offsets
15:46.08b0efwell, I don't use proprietary software, so I need to find a free software package
15:46.26brlcadyeah, that's a bit high-end for gimpage.. hmm
15:47.05brlcaddo you code? :)
15:47.34b0efyeah, I know it's an easy solvable mathematical way, but it's so strange that no one does it
15:47.38brlcadin code it wouldn't be all that horrible to hook in the ability to do the offset of a curve in brl-cad fairly easily
15:48.42b0efit's only using the cross product and the normal;)
15:48.53brlcadactually dealing with splines in general limits the number of computer scientists that don't glaze over with an empty facial expression to just a percent or two
15:49.25brlcadonly using the cross product and normal for discrete values, which splines generally are not :)
15:49.38brlcadhave to integrate over the entire curve, handle degenerate cases, etc
15:51.35brlcadhmm..i'll be sure to add that as a desired feature to the 2D curve editor in brl-cad's next gen modeling interface
15:51.57b0efbrlcad: oh, nice;)
15:52.09b0efwhat toolkit you planning to use?
15:52.31clock_brlcad: what determines if there are enough waves>
15:52.54brlcadsome of the toolkis and libs are still under consideration/review.. there's not a lot of great options
15:53.12b0efbrlcad: is gtk+ likely?
15:54.09b0efand is NURBS planned for this new software;), hehe
15:54.18brlcadfor the overall gui, there's only a handful of players that can deal with all the main requirements: sdl, gtk, qt, clanlib, something custom, etc
15:54.53brlcadoh yeah, nurbs IS still one of BRL-CAD's primitives.. it's just a pita to add stuff to MGED which is already riddled with other issues
15:55.19b0efawesome
15:55.52brlcadmged was never really written for direct input manipulation and mouse selections on geometry
15:56.17ValarQbrlcad: considered using cairo for the 2D stuff?
15:56.32brlcadValarQ: not sure i've heard of cairo, got a link?
15:56.36brlcad~cairo
15:56.38ibotrumour has it, cairo is a vector graphics library designed to provide high-quality display and print output.  see http://www.freedesktop.org/Cairo/Home for details.
15:56.45ValarQbrlcad: http://cairographics.org/
15:56.48b0efdirect command manipulation is really nice
15:57.03b0eftoo bad cairo don't do 3d
15:57.18ValarQb0ef: there is OpenGL for that
15:57.32b0efValarQ: I know, but 3d might make it into cairo some day
15:57.49b0ef..instead of dealing diretly with opengl
15:57.51ValarQb0ef: ok, thats news to me
15:58.21b0efValarQ: I actually have a thread on the mailinglist about 3d cairo
15:58.28brlcad~ibot, no cairo is a 2D graphics library with supporting various output formats like the X Window System, Win32, image buffers, and PostScript, PDF, and SVG file output.  Distributed under the LGPL, written in C, see http://cairographics.org/ for details.
15:58.29ibotbrlcad: okay
15:58.49brlcadbah engrish
15:59.01ValarQb0ef: what list?
15:59.08b0efValarQ: the cairo list
15:59.54ValarQb0ef: ok, i'll have a look at it
16:00.15brlcadValarQ: I hadn't looked into them yet, thanks for the link.. their image buffer and opengl output backends sound interesting
16:02.11brlcadthere's also pretty interesting potential to use them for the gui widgets.. something like an svg-based render layer for a scalable/zoomable interface
16:02.30ValarQbrlcad: yeah, there is gtk engines for cairo actually
16:03.11ValarQbrlcad: should be really intresting when they start using the glitz backend
16:04.02brlcadunfortunately, gtk is one of the least appealing of the toolkits for various management reasons
16:04.21b0efas gtk now uses cairo, the interface is zoomable
16:04.31b0efoh, no;)
16:05.27b0efa gimp style interface would be nice, with an emacs interface;)
16:05.39ValarQbrlcad: gtk was just an example of something using cairo itself
16:06.16ValarQbrlcad: many toolkits should be able to embedd cairo
16:06.19brlcadthe interface style of the new environment is already set -- full context management
16:06.50ValarQwhats that?
16:06.55brlcadinstead of the mged-/gimp-style many independent windows that coordinate
16:07.09brlcadhelps to think of what games do
16:07.16brlcador other major CAD systems for that matter
16:07.39ValarQto bad :/
16:07.44brlcadbut most definitely not looking or functioning like eitherr
16:08.20b0efstill not sure what that means
16:08.40b0efValarQ: indeed;)
16:09.32archivistyou waste too much time window swapping then
16:09.37ValarQthere is to many apps out there that looks like they embed Xnest
16:10.01brlcadit's still a possibility to have some sort of toggle, but it goes against most researched humane interface design principles
16:10.33brlcadeven the concept of simply having "windows" that you have to manage and hierarchical "folders" as well
16:11.24archivistI believe toolbars should come and go as needed (automagicly most of the time)
16:11.49b0efwhen you find yourself on the side of the majority, it's time to think again;)
16:12.43brlcadb0ef: i don't think the design approach i'm considering is anywhere close to a majority, other than paying attention to some of the most successful application interface environments in the gaming industry
16:13.27b0efbrlcad: in any case; I'm happy for a NURBS environment; somethine missing totally in the free software world;)
16:13.46b0efs/somethine/something/
16:14.01ValarQbrlcad: wasn't those applications developed for platforms with very poor windowsmanagers?
16:15.12brlcadValarQ: yes and no.. I'd say they were simply designed to work well with minimal dependencies on their environment since there's limited assumptions you can make about it
16:15.44brlcadas an extensively cross-platform CAD system, we have a lot of the same issues
16:17.20brlcadthe mac environment would serve as a nice fully integrateable environment where multiple applications can easily be hooked in with pretty much guaranteed assurance of their behavior and existance
16:17.33brlcadbut then that is of course a rather limited subset of the community
16:17.39clock_brlcad: I once needed to print a webpage on MAC and I got creeps
16:17.49brlcadlinux and BSD pretty much give you no guarantees :)
16:18.08clock_I couldn't find the print function. After extensive search I realized I have to go into a menu of different window than the browser!
16:18.19brlcadclock_: for an exceptional cost -- one which traditionally nobody wants to pay for :)
16:18.38brlcadhence why this is proceeding as an open source effort, not something funded
16:18.48ValarQbrlcad: what toolkits is on the top of the list?
16:18.58b0efbrlcad: the new gtk offers a very powerful printing feature
16:19.22brlcadb0ef: that's nice, but certainly not the highest priority feature to select a toolkit based off of :)
16:19.44brlcadValarQ: hmm.. there is a list, but that's on a different machine than where I"m at now
16:19.47b0efbrlcad: true, but just a reply to the comment about printing;)
16:19.55ValarQbrlcad: ok, no hurry
16:20.31brlcadthe biggest "debate" toolkits are the ones for the main context management and any gui/widget library
16:20.56brlcadopengl is at least a requirement this time around, so we don't have to struggle with that one
16:21.42clock_brlcad: how old have you been when you learned surfing?
16:21.49ValarQsounds good, you can always use mesa if there is no hw-support
16:21.51brlcadclock_: just a couple years ago
16:22.15brlcadValarQ: at least on some platforms ;)
16:23.43ValarQbrlcad: mesa works on all platforms i use :o)
16:23.54brlcadone methodology currently still being retained is the idea of zero external dependencies, so any toolkits being considered also have to be weighed from the perspective of their dependencies as well, how complex they are to build and configure and use, etc
16:24.37ValarQi guess gtk+cairo would produce heavy dependencies...
16:25.12brlcadlike I said.. gtk is a dependency nightmare.. they're one of the worst of all packages
16:25.50brlcadonly a few even come close to comparing, like mozilla, x11, kde, and gnome projects :)
16:26.13brlcadthey do have nice momentum, though
16:26.45ValarQso you will keep tcl/tk then? :)
16:27.14brlcadanother downside is that gtk doesn't (or at least didn't until recently) support native mac os x
16:27.52ValarQyou mean aqua?
16:27.58brlcadtcl is used by the lower level libraries, and will be exposed by a user front-end plugin module (mentioned yesterday iirc), but not for gui development
16:28.01brlcadcauses too many problems
16:28.22brlcadyeah, an aqua style interface instead of going through X11
16:28.29brlcadand yes, I know about http://developer.imendio.com/wiki/Gtk_Mac_OS_X
16:28.30brlcad<PROTECTED>
16:28.56clock_brlcad: what do you use for your own PC? BSD? Linux? Windows?
16:28.59clock_brlcad: Mac?
16:29.01ValarQi hope this doesn't lead to qt...
16:29.43brlcadQt is less than desireable for licensing reasons and supported platforms, though they do have a slightly cleaner API and commercial respect
16:29.58clock_brlcad: but now the look of brlcad generates reminiscence of something that's army-grade
16:30.16brlcadclock_: I use a variety of systems, usually on a BSD, Linux, or Mac OS X system
16:30.25clock_brlcad: yes but your own PC
16:30.37clock_brlcad: the system you like personally most
16:30.50brlcadusually preferring Mac OS X simply due to the developer facilities and integration with other apps
16:31.08brlcadclock_: all of those are on my own pc.. i have lots of machines
16:31.14clock_hehe :)
16:31.16ValarQwhat more widgetsets is there?
16:31.20ValarQmotif? wings?
16:31.26brlcadmy servers are mostly bsd
16:31.44ValarQbrlcad: good taste :)
16:31.46clock_brlcad: do you like surf rock?
16:31.57ValarQbrlcad: dare i ask what windowmanager you are using?
16:32.35brlcadgui widget libraries is the hardest to pick from -- there's gtk, wxwidgets, cegui, agar, .. few others
16:33.42brlcadValarQ: I generally prefer to live in a console, 95% of my time is spent there, so I don't generally care about the window manager
16:33.57brlcademacs and a posix shell do most of what I need :)
16:34.38brlcadbut when I did used to care, blackbox/fluxbox, pwm, and windowmaker were my cup of tea
16:34.38ValarQbrlcad: ok, the emacs-friendliest wm then :)
16:34.58brlcadyou?
16:35.07ValarQi mainly use IceWM
16:36.03ValarQhttp://arda.no-ip.org/iceshot.png
16:37.16ValarQi switched to emacs last year so i'm not using it for everything yet :)
16:39.30brlcadahh, just starting to see the light :)
16:39.53brlcadand the light shall set you free
16:40.38ValarQi believe i recently admited that i still use the unholy combination
16:40.47brlcadso you're a haskell fan too, eh?
16:41.13ValarQyeah
16:41.14brlcadmaybe you can help work up the haskell command interface when it's all ready to go ;)
16:41.37ValarQthat sounds neat
16:42.04ValarQwhy use Haskell for the cli?
16:42.26ValarQthe use of Parsec or do you want to embed an interpretter?
16:42.41brlcadthe entire plugin interface is where most of the thought and effort have gone into the project to date.. I so don't want to get into religion wars for the new gui
16:43.17brlcadactually, I'm utilizing a concept similar to what was done in the gimp with their script-fu engine
16:43.22ValarQno need for wars (as long as the new interface is cli based ;)
16:43.28brlcadpluggable scripting layers for various languages
16:45.53brlcadstill haven't decided whether I have to differentiate between those that lend themselves well to a command interpreter (e.g. bash, tcsh, tcl, ksh, lisp, etc) and those that don't necessarily (python, perl, ml, haskell, ruby, etc)
16:46.59brlcadthere will necessarily be a cli, and it'll necessarily support at least tcl just due to OUR existing users -- lisp would be useful for the autocad crowd, bash/ksh/tcsh are of course familiar to the rest of the world
16:47.45brlcadthe languages that don't lend themselves well to a cli do lend themselves well to plugins regardless, geared well for easier programming
16:48.01ValarQisn't there some support for python today?
16:48.10brlcad?
16:48.19ValarQi believe i saw some pythonflag when i compiled brlcad
16:48.44brlcadthere's some code in one module of the package that uses python, but that's a pretty isolated case
16:48.50ValarQok
16:48.56brlcadnothing in current rendering or modeling facilities uses it
16:49.25ValarQhow is the tcl support implemented?
16:49.31brlcadpython could potentially attract some of the blender attention, though they don't exactly use it as a cli
16:50.31brlcadtcl is integrated in various ways but from their C api facilities and as the command interpreter for mged
16:50.56ValarQok, straight C api then
16:51.41brlcadwe also kick off a full interpreter
16:51.53brlcadyou can script tcl directly into the mged command window
16:52.11ValarQthats a nice feature
16:52.49ValarQwill you keep tcl as main brlcad-"shell" language?
16:52.54brlcadtcl was chosen back in the day is it was one of the few languages that let you dynamicly add new commands to the language itself on the fly
16:53.03brlcadno, it won't be
16:53.33brlcadit'll be just another interface like all the others, and plugin-writers will be able to choose the environment they prefer
16:53.42ValarQok
16:53.52brlcadusers will too.. so if you want the traditional tcl shell, great, if you want the more familiar bash, great, etc
16:54.47brlcadthat's what I mean, though about distinguishing between the plugin writers and the cli itself.. i didn't want to distinguish, but it may be necessary
16:55.39brlcadthe plugin command interface and of course the gui are going to be the two most powerful aspects of the system for extension
16:56.35brlcadhoping that will help activate community interest to implement the pieces people need since it's very much too much of a task to cover all the primary application domains as an open source project without major developer involvement
16:57.17brlcaddesign, drafting, machining, mechanical, engineering, analysis, electronic, industrial, architecture ...
16:57.46brlcadeach with their own language, expectations, and requirements
16:58.12ValarQwith a well thought out and documented pluginsystem it might gain more interest
16:58.17archivistelectronic? are you thinking pcb design?
16:58.29ValarQjust look at how many is writing emacs plugins :)
16:58.44brlcador eclipse plugins for that matter, or game plugins, etc
16:59.01ValarQgame plugins?
16:59.19brlcadlots of people are willing to dabble on the concept of a plugin, way fewer are willing to "contribute directly"
16:59.34brlcadsaw that with bzflag when plugins were implemented
17:00.31brlcadpeople that said they couldn't code were suddenly writing excellent plugins .. mods that would have been easily accepted into the main code line as a non-plugin
17:01.03brlcadbut they have a mental block for contributing that way, perhaps a feeling of ownership, or responsibility
17:02.42ValarQwell, people should be able to develop plugins without sending them for distribution with the main package
17:02.54brlcadsure
17:03.12clock_from a band called Fire Dept.
17:03.18ValarQit's a bit sad thought
17:03.29brlcadbut if the plugin is good stuff, why not distribute it with the main package? :)
17:03.39brlcadend users don't care
17:03.49brlcadthey just want the features, they have something they want to get done
17:03.57brlcad(like that spline road task) ;)
17:04.44ValarQcome to think of it, i haven't send any patches to brlcad myself...
17:05.55brlcad:)
17:06.13brlcadpatches always welcome, they get priority attention and are the fastest way to get commit access :)
17:08.12CIA-9BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/configure.ac: gah, set LIBDS, not LIBDL
17:08.13ValarQi have been thinking of an external sketch editor, but maybe it's not worth it until you settle for a gui toolkit
17:08.13archivistahem splines are fun (not)
17:09.29brlcadit would be worth it imho.. this major plugin system with a new shiney gui isn't going to be production code for quite a while still
17:10.02brlcadi thought about kicking off qcad in mged as the sketch editor.. shouldn't be incredibly difficult to get working
17:10.32brlcadespecially since both do dxf, could be a translation glue
17:11.37*** join/#brlcad IriX64 (n=IriX64@toronto-HSE-ppp4309547.sympatico.ca)
17:11.41ValarQi have been thinking of converting another project to gtk2hs/cairo
17:12.22ValarQthat is if i can get good canvas functionallity with those
17:12.58IriX64SHOT: cpu = 7.875 sec, elapsed = 15.919 sec
17:12.58IriX64<PROTECTED>
17:12.58IriX64<PROTECTED>
17:12.58IriX64Additional mem=393216., #malloc=429, #free=359, #realloc=3 (70 retained)
17:12.58IriX649917603 solid/ray intersections: 7525144 hits + 2392459 miss
17:13.00IriX64pruned 75.9%:  0 model RPP, 13088535 dups skipped, 192420 solid RPP
17:13.02IriX64Frame  0:     117649 pixels in      7.88 sec =     14939.56 pixels/sec
17:13.04IriX64Frame  0:    1125029 rays   in      7.88 sec =    142860.83 rays/sec (RTFM)
17:13.06IriX64Frame  0:    1125029 rays   in      7.88 sec =    142860.83 rays/CPU_sec
17:13.08IriX64Frame  0:    1125029 rays   in     15.92 sec =     70672.09 rays/sec (wallclock)
17:13.10IriX64Raytrace complete.
17:13.12IriX64crap sorry.
17:13.23IriX64really am that wasnt sposed to happen.
17:13.24brlcadeek
17:13.47ValarQIriX64: it did anyway :P
17:13.56IriX64*tell me about it.
17:14.15ValarQi just did...
17:14.19IriX64bitchx suck my nether regions with your face :P
17:31.36*** join/#brlcad DTRemenak (n=DTRemena@c-24-23-59-104.hsd1.ca.comcast.net)
17:34.49*** join/#brlcad MarioD (n=who@toronto-HSE-ppp4309547.sympatico.ca)
17:35.15MarioDIriX64 what the heck are you doing still here ? :)
17:35.35MarioDhow long does it take?
17:37.25MarioDhow do i get my nick back when this happens?
17:38.53IriX64thats better.
17:39.44IriX64cleverly programmed into every compile of brlcad is a long coffee break, see you in a bit.
17:40.33archivista slow box has a meal break as well
18:13.22IriX64hah im having a barley sandwich :)
18:13.37brlcadhops and barley?
18:13.55IriX64they don't mix them in lagers and ales.
18:14.47IriX64cut and paste now works. thanks for putting up with me.
18:15.10IriX64mged>
18:15.10IriX64mged>  
18:15.14IriX64see
18:16.06IriX64and thats *not windows mged.
18:16.41IriX64altho i have that here as well.
18:17.04IriX64bldg391 is complex.
18:17.20IriX64mirrored floors for real?
18:17.55IriX64mirrored floors are a military secret? :)
18:20.31brlcadno comment
18:21.32IriX64ermf can't open frame buffer.
18:24.56CIA-9BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/canon/Makefile.am: png-ipu needs LIBPNG
18:28.31IriX64thats better, sigh i had two copies of mged running, doh...doofus.
18:30.23IriX64hahah the enterprise shuttle showing me her belly, say dear do you belly dance too :)
18:31.00ValarQis brlcad still a military project?
18:31.14IriX64they put it into open source.
18:31.22IriX64gnu licences they say.
18:31.50IriX64respects to thaose guys 30 meg bz2 source archive.
18:31.54IriX64those too.
18:32.46IriX64im sure they contribute still.
18:32.48ValarQyeah, but is there still military funded devs working on it?
18:33.06IriX64that i don't know.
18:33.17IriX64check cvs on sourceforge.
18:33.25IriX64im not in cvs.
18:34.20IriX64id paste this picture into the channel if i had a way, its gorgeous.
18:35.38IriX64Model: X(-50000,50000), Y(-50000,50000), Z(-50000,50000)
18:35.38IriX64View: 314.544 azimuth, -75.9309 elevation off of front view
18:35.38IriX64Orientation: 0.311442, 0.94234, -0.0559178, 0.108957
18:35.38IriX64E
18:36.53IriX64Model: X(-50000,50000), Y(-50000,50000), Z(-50000,50000)
18:36.53IriX64View: 314.544 azimuth, -75.9309 elevation off of front view
18:36.53IriX64Orientation: 0.311442, 0.94234, -0.0559178, 0.108957
18:36.53IriX64E
18:37.09IriX64ah well so pastes not perfect yet.
18:37.45IriX64Model: X(-50000,50000), Y(-50000,50000), Z(-50000,50000)
18:37.45IriX64View: 314.544 azimuth, -75.9309 elevation off of front view
18:37.45IriX64Orientation: 0.311442, 0.94234, -0.0559178, 0.108957
18:37.45IriX64E
18:38.00IriX64doesnt clear the buffer darn.
18:40.55IriX64the top of the shuttle appears flat (and undamaged :))
18:55.45IriX64brb
19:01.49ValarQthat irix user sure got a lot to paste
19:07.06*** join/#brlcad IriX64 (n=who@toronto-HSE-ppp4309547.sympatico.ca)
19:12.01IriX64mucho better :)
19:12.36IriX64say you ever hear the song Roland The Headless Thompson Gunner?
19:13.32IriX64By Warren Zevon (Nightime in the switching yards albumn)
19:19.16IriX64if you're permitted to answer this, just how many ppl does bldging 391 serve?
19:21.30IriX64dare i post my last shot? I so love to share.
19:22.37IriX64*cough*
19:43.22brlcadValarQ: BRL-CAD is still used and funded  (with no plans to stop anytime in the forseeable future)
19:44.19brlcadof course still directly and indirectly contributing too -- they have quite a vested interest -- though the project is an open source project in it's own right like any other
19:48.43IriX64ValarQ the military tho i don't think hangs out here, course i could be wrong.
19:49.32IriX64gotta go W2k beckons.
19:52.53brlcadquite an odd fellow sometimes
19:54.43ValarQyeah
19:59.43brlcadwhich country?
20:02.15ValarQsweden
20:02.22``Erikborkborkbork
20:02.39ValarQ``Erik: no, i didn't work in the kitchen :P
20:02.58``Erik:D
20:07.57brlcadheh
21:25.28b0efany plans to make the documentation available online? (html)
21:31.12brlcadb0ef: what documentation?  most of the most up to date docs are on-line just not in html form
21:32.39b0efbrlcad: I'm thinking online browsable
21:33.14brlcadthe main docs (the tutorial series) were written and finished just shortly before the open sourcing, they were printed up and nicely bound .. pdf's were the next best thing
21:33.31brlcadcould run pdf2html i reckon ;)
21:34.13brlcadactually looking to convert all of the documentation into docbook format so that it's pretty much turnkey to get various output formats automatically including on-line html forms
21:34.33b0efyeah, would be nice
21:34.44brlcadthere's a guy working on that  now, was all done with vol I and had moved on to vol II
23:56.52CIA-9BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/ (README doc/description.txt doc/pad_file.xml.in): emphasize cross-platform open source instead of comprehensive (technically not comprehensive CAD to say the least)
Jeff Waugh - find it at freshmeat.net! Modified by Tim Riker to work with blootbot logs, split per channel, etc. irclog2html for #brlcad on 20060712

irclog2html for #brlcad on 20060712

00:09.43CIA-9BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/ (README doc/description.txt): s/from/form/
00:43.59*** join/#brlcad matt_ezeki_230 (n=matt@host-84-223-139-211.cust-adsl.tiscali.it)
00:46.57*** join/#brlcad bjorkBSD (n=bjork@ip70-178-169-173.ks.ks.cox.net)
00:52.11matt_ezeki_230hi guys! i've a little and (i hope!) trite question for you... i created a region from several primitive shapes with command "r reg.r u pshape1.s u pshape2.s u ... pshapen.s" but when i tried to give the command "rt -W -s1024 -o file.pix" to have the bw raytrace i obtained a region coloured gray. Does anyone know why?
01:52.56CIA-9BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/mged/ (attach.c ged.h): declare mged_link_vars() correctly
02:09.53brlcadmatt_ezeki_230: it's because you haven't specified a color on your region -- the default color of regions is a dull white which generally ends up looking like gray with the default ambient lighting and default lights
02:10.43brlcadyou can/should specify the color of the region using the mater command (material "plastic" works well enough for most purposes) or using the Combination Editor's Shader panel
04:02.03*** join/#brlcad digitalfredy (n=digitalf@200.71.62.161)
05:10.23*** join/#brlcad Twingy (n=justin@c-69-250-236-111.hsd1.md.comcast.net)
06:11.55matt_ezeki_230what i'd like to obtain is the same effect of the command "rt -W" on a primitive shape, but for a region. I tried...
06:12.21matt_ezeki_2301) "r reg.r u pshape1.s u pshape2.s u ... pshapen.s"
06:13.09matt_ezeki_2302) "mater reg.r bwtexture 255 255 255 0"
06:13.27matt_ezeki_230but nothing! it's still gray
06:13.50matt_ezeki_2303) "mater reg.r plastic 255 255 255 0"
06:14.03matt_ezeki_230but it's still gray!
06:16.29matt_ezeki_230is it possibile? maybe i'm wrong..
06:21.37*** join/#brlcad clock_ (i=clock@84-72-89-191.dclient.hispeed.ch)
06:45.15matt_ezeki_230sorry... is it obvious that the diagram shows a gray region because i give the command
06:45.29matt_ezeki_230"rt -W -s1024 -o file.pix"
06:46.43matt_ezeki_230to raytrace. Certainly, when i'll do i rt without option -W it will go all ok!
06:47.02matt_ezeki_230but... another question...
06:48.48matt_ezeki_230the option -W permit to raytrace with a white background SHOWING the BLACK BORDERS of primitive shapes
06:48.57matt_ezeki_230do you remember this?
06:50.35matt_ezeki_230ok... how can i get the same effect for a region? if i assign to it material properties and raytrace in classical way the borders aren't showed
06:51.25matt_ezeki_230and if i raytrace with option -W the diagram is gray....
07:02.37matt_ezeki_230ok it's ok! the command was not "rt -W ...." but "rtedge -W ..."
08:07.38*** join/#brlcad clock_ (n=clock@zux221-122-143.adsl.green.ch)
08:10.41clock_brlcad: I have a mental block on surfing: http://www.archive.org/download/leda009/18.mental.mp3
08:15.57clock_Is it OK to compile brlcad with -O3 -fomit-frame-pointer -march=pentium-3 or is it gonna wipe out on some gcc bug?
13:52.48brlcadi'd suggest just --enable-optimized --with-cflags="-march=pentium-3" instead
13:54.00clock_brlcad: did you have to learn duck diving and strenghten your muscles for paddling?
13:56.38brlcadnot really
13:57.05brlcadit was exhausting, but not horribly so
13:57.36clock_brlcad: muscle mass or fat mass?
13:57.51brlcadmuscle mostly
13:58.01clock_and you call that a *problem*?
13:58.06brlcadjust not an efficient swimmer
13:58.12brlcadsure, it can be a problem
13:58.23clock_brlcad: where did you get this? From genetics? Steroids? Or, god save us, fitness room?
13:58.44brlcadpowerlifting, I generally work out a lot
13:58.54brlcadnot genetics or steroids
13:59.14clock_brlcad: cool, you just added a drop into the cup of determination for my sport attempts :)
14:00.14clock_brlcad: how still? Lifting doesn't increase your length
14:00.34clock_brlcad: is it better to be short or long on a surfboard>?
14:01.44clock_brlcad: powerlifting == to lift as much as possible?
14:08.15brlcadyes, heavy lifting for bulk
14:09.10brlcadfor riding the surfboard, it's just balance .. might have an advantage being shorter, but for paddling out and catching the wave.. long arms definitely help
14:51.01CIA-9BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/vas4/vas_io.c: clean up the logic on termio.h vs sgtty.h .. can't use both together
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19:50.08ValarQ*chirp*
20:06.37brlcad*moo*
20:12.01clock_brlcad: did you reincarnate into a cow? So reincarnation is actually true?
20:12.42DTRemenak*baaah*
21:18.49*** join/#brlcad DTRemenak (n=DTRemena@c-24-23-59-104.hsd1.ca.comcast.net)
21:22.18*** join/#brlcad IriX64 (n=who@toronto-HSE-ppp4309547.sympatico.ca)
21:26.22IriX64Jean-Luc Picard to his sewing machine repairman, " Make it sew "  <----thats not mine btw. :)
21:29.27IriX64can the overlap tool be used to eliminate them as well as find them?
21:31.46IriX64never mind, it can :)
21:33.34IriX64it's just that i'm not fluent in brlcadese. :)
22:01.55brlcadwhich "overlap tool"?
22:35.12IriX64:) the one im playing with.
23:59.34bjorkBSDUnable to find 'lib/tcl8.4' within the BRL-CAD software installation.
23:59.34bjorkBSDThis copy of BRL-CAD may not be properly installed.
23:59.41bjorkBSDis that a fatal error?
23:59.48IriX64can be.
Jeff Waugh - find it at freshmeat.net! Modified by Tim Riker to work with blootbot logs, split per channel, etc. irclog2html for #brlcad on 20060713

irclog2html for #brlcad on 20060713

00:00.00brlcadfor mged it normally will be
00:00.17brlcadsound like you tried to link against a system tcl perhaps?
00:00.51brlcadall else fails, make sure --enable-almost-everything works
00:01.17brlcadthat will build isolated so it doesn't try to use any system libraries
00:02.16IriX64back in the compile saddle again :)
00:02.18bjorkBSDoh i pkg_add'ed brlcad :-S
00:02.31bjorkBSDshould i have made it from ports?
00:03.42brlcadbjorkBSD: hrmph
00:03.50brlcadno, that should have just worked
00:03.59bjorkBSDhmm.
00:04.05bjorkBSDi can remake it.
00:04.06brlcadsounds like a bug for the package maintainer..
00:04.19IriX64depends how you install it tho :) (ducking and running)
00:05.44IriX64well an hour from now we can compare notes bjorkBSD.
00:06.49bjorkBSDhehehhe
00:07.23brlcadyeeesh, putting together a brl-cad quick reference card is going to be harder than it was for mged..
00:07.38bjorkBSDbrlcad, are you the only one working on it?
00:07.55brlcadthe quick reference card? yeah, just me
00:09.10brlcadit's a matter of condensign about 400 commands onto two simple sheets of paper
00:09.28bjorkBSDhmm.
00:09.33brlcadincluding diagrams and other writeups to make it look elegant and be informative
00:09.48bjorkBSDi see i see.
00:10.01brlcadi think i'm just going to have to widdle down the command list to a subset of maybe a third
00:10.44brlcador get incredibly creative with diagrams to pack all the command info into less space
00:11.36bjorkBSDsounds like an interesting challenge, if you ask me.
00:11.37brlcadthe mged one didn't take me that long at all, maybe a solid weeks worth of time
00:11.52bjorkBSDi've started looking at the docs as part of the interface.
00:12.02brlcadand i'm already finding the mged one utterly useful
00:12.02bjorkBSDit helps you interact more efficiently with the system.
00:12.26bjorkBSDso maybe the HCI factors might be applied to the docs (?). speculating.
00:12.55brlcadthey can and should, it's just usually good "good design and clean layout" etc
00:13.04brlcads/good "/called/
00:13.56bjorkBSDaha! some one agrees!
00:13.59brlcademphasizing the most important bits of data in a sea of information, conveying the data in an intelligent and compact manner
00:16.33brlcadit took me over an hour, for example to write a single sentance that succintly explained brl-cad's 2d and 3d coordinate system conventions, choosing just the right words in the right order to best utilize the space constraint
00:17.04bjorkBSDhmmm.
00:17.16brlcadseriously feeling cramped for space for this overall brl-cad quick reference sheet though
00:17.17bjorkBSDsounds like a great way of RTFM...
00:17.30bjorkBSDsounds like a newbie exercise!
00:19.10bjorkBSDthere! IriX64 it's your job :))
00:19.24bjorkBSDi'd do it, but i don't even have brlcad anymore :( (lies)
00:19.42IriX64gotta know the commands and language before you can write it up bjorkBSD.
00:20.00brlcadit's incredibly rare for a dev to have enough design, language, layout, publication experience to put this kind of stuff together
00:20.19IriX64delegate it :)
00:20.19brlcadIriX64: even I don't know all the commands
00:20.20fennoh brlcad you're so awesome
00:20.28bjorkBSDbut it's writing. the process of writing it *will* teach all those things, IriX64
00:20.56brlcadfenn: heh
00:20.56IriX64not unless you try every command while you write it up.
00:21.08IriX64fenn is that a dig ;)
00:21.35brlcadfenn: that was just a statement in general and didn't really include myself in it .. it takes me way too long
00:22.23brlcadi mean, you leave untrained devs alone with a design and you end up with stuff like mged :)
00:22.39IriX64or better :)
00:22.42fennif documentation is hard to write it usually means the interface is bad
00:23.17IriX64whats so hard about click edit click gemoetry browser and your in business?
00:23.21brlcadheh, mged's docs weren't hard to write.. and I wouldn't say the interface is good :P
00:24.55brlcadthis quick reference card is more like documenting everything you can do in bash briefly in just a page or two including all the standard posix commands
00:25.13IriX64eeek :{
00:25.35IriX64why you?
00:25.42brlcadsure writing the 20 page manpage is easy, or even a book on the shell .. but condensing the info I think is non-trivial
00:26.02IriX64you must live wrong. :)
00:26.07brlcadIriX64: who else is going to do it?
00:26.12IriX64to be assigned such.
00:26.34brlcadi don't assign anything
00:26.45brlcadi think the project needs it
00:26.57IriX64you saying you seriuosly know ever command?
00:27.06brlcaddo an ls on /usr/brlcad/bin and tell me what anything other than rt and mged does?
00:27.09bjorkBSDhe said he didn't.
00:27.32brlcadI know most of them, but certainly not all of them
00:27.56brlcadat least not without taking a peek at their source for a reminder
00:28.07IriX64as i said i'm a newbie but willing to learn.
00:29.08brlcada lot of it is easily categorized fortunately.. might come up with some sort of diagram that's better than listing them all out
00:29.40brlcadexample, all the image reader tools that display to a framebuffer: bw-fb cat-fb cell-fb cmap-fb gif-fb gif2fb orle-fb pix-fb pixflip-fb pl-fb png-fb polar-fb pp-fb rle-fb spm-fb
00:30.35IriX64better explain just what a framebuffer is to brlcad.
00:30.52brlcadyep, that's going in too
00:31.11IriX64put it all in a gui :)
00:31.26bjorkBSDIriX64 good good, you're lending a hand? :D
00:31.33IriX64heh
00:31.38brlcadfwiw.. "brlcad" usually refers to me, "brl-cad" would be to the project in casual parlance
00:32.03brlcadno need, just confusing me :)
00:32.07fenni thought your nick was brlcad so whenever something was on-topic it'd beep at you
00:32.18IriX64bjorkBSD lets collaborate we'll do the gui.
00:32.49IriX64for instance tools-->raytrace control panel
00:32.54brlcadfenn: nah, I have keyword highlighting turned on for that
00:33.29IriX64simply have it pass paramters or defaulkts to rt.
00:33.37IriX64err defaults.
00:33.42brlcadand it's only because my primary dev machine is packed up for a move that I'm mostly chatting as brlcad, often switch names around :)
00:35.49bjorkBSDgui? i can't code for shit IriX64
00:36.09bjorkBSDsure i can read c and what not. but i've been too <insert reasons here> to code anything.
00:36.17brlcadthe official project name is "BRL-CAD" case and dash included. "brl-cad" is usually used for casual talk, "brlcad" only for file and directory names where the dash can be unconventional, annoying, unsupported, etc
00:36.49fennoo there is brl-cad.org
00:36.51brlcadcertainly not a big deal, though
00:37.37brlcadyeah, http://www.BRL-CAD.org is the shiznits
00:37.50brlcad*cough*
00:38.04brlcadanother design suckage that someone will hopefully work on
00:39.43fennis the brl-cad API documented anywhere?
00:40.11fenni mean besides doxygen
00:40.31brlcadthe code is the prime source, but yeah, there is more
00:40.31IriX64you guys disabled doxygen in 7.6.?
00:41.15fenngotta love those automatically generated graphviz diagrams
00:41.22brlcadthere have been several research papers for the core libraries, as well as presentations at conferences (at least one is available on the website)
00:44.52IriX64optical shader library?
00:46.29brlcadhmm?
00:46.35brlcadliboptical
00:47.31IriX64multi-pane on lets tango.
00:47.33brlcadthat's where the light transport simulation of the ray-tracer is managed, for generating optical images
00:47.55IriX64seems to be automatic in raytrace control panel.
00:47.57brlcad(as opposed to infrared, xray, or some other multispectral tracing, or even a different algorithm like path tracing)
00:48.14IriX64you support all those?
00:48.24brlcadthe raytrace control panel kicks off 'rt', which is the optical ray tracer (that uses liboptical)
00:48.42brlcadyes, they're all supported to various decrees
00:49.04IriX64right that i know but the database background overrides raytrace control panel, should be the other way around no?
00:50.26brlcaddatabase background?
00:50.26IriX64and the framebuffer X-lay selection and or object selection don't seem to stick across invocations.
00:50.37IriX64color scheme.
00:51.04brlcadstill not following you
00:51.13IriX64thats all right.
00:51.16IriX64:)
00:51.22brlcaddifferent terminology perhaps :)
00:51.37IriX64im a coder not a user. more's the pity.
00:51.41brlcadthe raytracer ALSO supports different lighting models, that's a different concept
00:52.09brlcaddifferent shaders too
00:52.29IriX64if you choose a background color in the control panel, the background is drawn in that color as the solid model is rendered on the screen.
00:52.33brlcadso it can be using the optics library and implement a completely non-optical shader algorithm (like cell shading, or flat shading)
00:52.49IriX64thats all math to me :)
00:53.22brlcadahh, that's just that.. a background color is drawn when the model is missed.. nothing more or less -- doesn't even really involve the lighting model or shaders or spectral mode
00:53.38IriX64instead of a dark background you can choose your own color.
00:54.17brlcadyep, but it's just a visualization/data hack
00:54.35IriX64ahh ok so its not even in the database is that right?
00:54.41brlcadused for simulating an alpha channel from a time before they existed
00:54.52bjorkBSDbrlcad, and all this info's in the code?
00:54.52brlcadit's not in the geometry database
00:55.13IriX64on that note i go see a man about a recurring leak, bbiab :)
00:55.19brlcadbjorkBSD: yes, some of what I just said is even in manpages
00:55.32bjorkBSDhmm i see.
00:55.44brlcadlike man brlcad, man libfb, man librt
00:56.00brlcadfenn: i suppose those would quality as api documentation
00:56.28brlcadthough I haven't reviewed them in quite some time to update them with recent modifications
01:14.36IriX64wheres the plot from a file tool?
01:15.01IriX64err well i can send it to a plot file but how do i plot it?
01:15.38IriX64bjorkBSD?
01:16.03IriX64fenn?
01:19.07bjorkBSDno.
01:19.17bjorkBSDalright. yes. :D
01:21.34*** join/#brlcad fenn (n=fenn@adsl-70-239-91-104.dsl.bltnin.sbcglobal.net)
01:24.09IriX64look bjorkBSD comedians usually get paid :)
01:26.44bjorkBSDheheheh
01:34.17fennsourceforge has such horrible service lately
01:45.39brlcadfenn: yet still free, gift horse and all
01:45.39IriX64fanfare.... lets eat.
01:45.57IriX64what the pizza :P
01:46.26brlcadwhen you say plot file, what do you mean?
01:46.30fennthere are lots of free websites that dont consistently neglect service interruptions..
01:46.34brlcadbrl-cad deals with .pl unix-style plot files
01:47.13bjorkBSDbrlcad, is there a GUI interface you like?
01:47.24bjorkBSDfor drawing programs and whatnot.
01:47.33brlcadbjorkBSD: you mean in general from an hci perspective or cad-specific?
01:48.09IriX64mine says cray.plot.
01:48.55brlcadIriX64: how did you create cray.plot?
01:49.13IriX64jeez he's hauling out the cat-o-nine, err wait, wrong service :)
01:49.21IriX64render view
01:49.29brlcadah
01:49.50IriX64there's a postscript option too as well as rt.
01:50.30brlcadthere's a whole slew of pl-* tools for manipulating plot files.. if you saved a 3D plot file, you can overlay that into mged again for visualization
01:50.51brlcadif you just want a quick view, something like pl-fb -F/dev/Xl
01:51.07IriX64thankyou... just a sec.
01:52.04IriX64its a standalone command :(
01:53.51IriX64smoke break. :)
02:06.30bjorkBSDi meant cad specific.
02:06.43bjorkBSDsorry, i was afIRC
02:09.08fennqcad has a decent UI philosopy
02:09.09brlcadbjorkBSD: i don't think I'd consider any of them spectacular though many of them have some really nice isolated features
02:09.31bjorkBSDah okay.
02:09.36brlcadunigraphics goes to pretty extensive lengths to get rid of modalities for example, and does an okay job at it
02:09.39bjorkBSDwhat'll a good one look like?
02:10.38fenna good one will not force you to switch back and forth between keyboard and mouse
02:11.27bjorkBSDhmmm.
02:11.44bjorkBSDso one that's exclusively keyboarded or moused?
02:12.06bjorkBSDkb/mouse mutual exclusivity is a myth i say.
02:12.09brlcadno, primarily gui/mouse driven
02:12.21bjorkBSDthey're meant to be complementary.
02:12.39fenni didnt say you couldnt use both at the same time
02:12.43bjorkBSDi just don't buy the argument that switching hands from keyboard to mouse is such a drain on time.
02:12.52fennblender does a nice job of using both
02:13.00bjorkBSDcool.
02:13.05bjorkBSDi haven't looked at blender yet.
02:14.37bjorkBSDmouseless keyboard/keyboardless mouse :)
02:15.35bjorkBSDgiven that the mouse has been around since the early '60s ... it's a pity it's still so misunderstood.
02:16.08fennpoor poor mouse, nobody understands him
02:17.48bjorkBSDfenn how do you think the mouse should be used?
02:17.56bjorkBSDexclusively as a paper weight?
02:18.09bjorkBSD... in a paperless world, no less :)
02:18.39fenni think the mouse is more than a paperlessweight]
02:18.52bjorkBSDheheh.
02:18.56bjorkBSDan ornament then.
02:19.03bjorkBSDthe more buttons, the more 3l33t  :D
02:19.17bjorkBSDand if it's just one button, you're a mac user and 3l33t regardless :P
02:19.18bjorkBSDj/k
02:19.31fennnavigating in 3d is a lot easier with a mouse
02:19.48fennso is selecting a particular object
02:20.08fenndescribing relationships between objects is not so easy
02:21.14bjorkBSDwith a mouse?
02:21.28fennalthough i have seen some cool ideas for a "directed graph" GUI using mostly mouse input
02:22.54bjorkBSDhmm.
02:23.49bjorkBSDi dunno, but i think a lot of the matters regarding interface design is too firmly focused on making it easier for newbies to get going.
02:24.21bjorkBSDnewbies like me, for instance :D
02:24.43bjorkBSDone simply gets used to the interface after a while i think...
02:24.54fenninterfaces should be self-documenting or you spend too much time reading documentation instead of playing around
02:25.19bjorkBSDhmm.
02:25.34fennthere's no reason i should have to look up what an rpp is
02:25.38bjorkBSDplaying around shouldn't be hindered, that's true.
02:25.45bjorkBSDrpp? wtf is that?
02:25.48fennlol
02:26.25bjorkBSDreturn polyplenum?
02:26.26bjorkBSDwhat?
02:26.43fennregular perpendicular poly-something
02:26.45fennits a cube
02:27.00bjorkBSDrpp?
02:27.02bjorkBSDhow does that stand for cube?
02:27.12fennexactly
02:27.28fennrectangular paralellepiped, sorry
02:27.35bjorkBSDthat makes sense.
02:27.55bjorkBSDthere's terminology associated with 3D that a user should be familiar with, i s'pose.
02:28.01bjorkBSDso that's not a big deal at all.
02:28.22bjorkBSDa nice glossary (and a wizard? heaven forbid! and hell too.) should help one along nicely :D
02:28.23fenni've never heard the term paralellepiped before brlcad
02:28.30bjorkBSDi have.
02:28.38fennsee i'm even spelling it wrong
02:31.30brlcadit's the mathematical term for better or worse
02:32.12fennanyway my point was that the interface isnt self documenting
02:32.35brlcadmged was never implemented to be user-friendly, self documenting, teaching or anything of the sort -- it was implemented with a very specific purpose in hand for a very specific environment
02:33.10bjorkBSDfenn,  c'mon.
02:33.15brlcadfor which it serves that purpose rather well with experts that can model things in it faster than the best large-scale cad systems
02:33.30bjorkBSDmust the interface be a solid geometry tutorial?
02:33.51bjorkBSDi think with a basic understanding of the concepts behind it (SG), the interface can't be *that* obscure.
02:34.11fennbjorkBSD: a simple picture of an rpp would suffice
02:34.34IriX64solid geometry?
02:34.35bjorkBSDthat's true.
02:34.37bjorkBSDyes IriX64
02:34.51IriX64thought it was a modeling system.
02:34.52brlcadit's hard to justify spending tax payer dollars on features that make no sense for that environment (why write a tutorial when one of the core developers can give you personal attention on demand in considerably less time)
02:35.16bjorkBSDThat portion of geometry dealing with solids, as opposed to plane geometry. Solid geometry is concerned with polyhedra, spheres, three-dimensional solids, lines in three-space, planes, and so on.
02:35.26bjorkBSDfrom wolfram ^
02:35.57brlcadIriX64: it is a "system", hence all the command line tools -- meant to be used together, can pipe inputs/outputs ala cat, grep, sed, awk, etc
02:36.10IriX64my definition is simply draw it in 3d and fill it in to make it solid, wheres the *solid geometry come in?
02:36.14bjorkBSDno one expects a text editor to be self-writing. one assumes the person using the text editor knows how to read and write.
02:36.19fennbrlcad: i'm not complaining at all, bjorkBSD was asking what should be part of a "good" interface
02:37.13IriX6456^7=an ellipse, thats solid geometry if you apply it to 3 dimensions.
02:37.14bjorkBSDand basic solid geometry  - correct me if i'm wrong here - with boolean logic is the vocabulary of brl-cad.
02:37.26brlcadglad to hear it, though it is a common gripe and misconception of the project either way not having been open source for very long
02:38.29IriX64err 5.6 *cough*
02:38.50bjorkBSDbrlcad, are my assumptions wrong?
02:39.25brlcadbjorkBSD: not sure, what exactly is the assumption?  something about the vocabulary?
02:39.37bjorkBSDheheh
02:39.44bjorkBSDsolid geometry/boolean algebra.
02:39.45brlcadthe failing is that mged exposes the low-level code representation/names of object types
02:39.48bjorkBSDoops. boolean logic.
02:39.52brlcadrpp, arb8, sph, etc
02:39.57bjorkBSDhmm okay .
02:40.01brlcadyou mean CSG?
02:40.05bjorkBSDyeah
02:40.12fennbrlcad: that's not necessarily a failing, as it makes it easier for potential developers to understand what is going on underneath
02:40.19brlcadunion, difference, intersection's pretty industry standard operations
02:40.46fennor script writers
02:40.59brlcadfenn: true, though it goes both ways -- requires users to learn a lot more implementation detail than is really necessary for their task
02:42.13bjorkBSDhmm.
02:44.38bjorkBSDdamn, i wish i could do something about the interface :D
02:46.46bjorkBSDwhat does it take, brlcad ?
02:47.49fennlearn a programming language, a GUI toolkit, and the BRL-CAD API and you're all set
02:48.11brlcadskip to it! :)
02:48.26bjorkBSDhehehhe.
02:48.32bjorkBSDi'll get right on it.
02:48.35bjorkBSDC you said?
02:48.49brlcadhell, if you did the first two, I'd cater custom attention on the third
02:49.05fenni was thinking about a python UI with pygtk perhaps
02:49.26bjorkBSDpython?
02:49.31bjorkBSDthe tyranny of choice.
02:49.33fennpeople seem quite picky about toolkits for some reason
02:49.41bjorkBSDhow'bout a web interface? those are oh so popular :D
02:50.06brlcadeveryone seems to have religion when it comes to interface
02:50.44bjorkBSDmy belief (and i'm prepared to prove this with a bat) is that the docs MUST be read :D
02:51.01bjorkBSDbut please don't throw it in my face as i have no intention of reading 'em myself :D
02:51.17fennthat's nice
02:51.45bjorkBSD<PROTECTED>
02:52.53fennon the other hand i'm learning lisp right now and apparently it's a well known language in the cad field
02:53.04bjorkBSDthrough autocad, yeah.
02:54.05bjorkBSDCL can be very VERY unintuitive.
02:54.08brlcadbjorkBSD: another league of experience to be learned from games -- there are some incredibly complex games out there, and rare a gamer that reads paper before ripping the disc out, installing, and playing
02:54.26bjorkBSDbrlcad,  but the interface for games is fairly well known.
02:54.32fennhardly
02:54.40bjorkBSDleft right forwards backwards. and oh where's the shoot button? there!
02:54.42bjorkBSDblam blam! :D
02:55.40bjorkBSDbut i see what you're saying.
02:55.43fenni guess it depends which games you play
02:55.57bjorkBSDthe shoot-em-ups are more or less the same.
02:56.00bjorkBSDthe driving games too.
02:56.09bjorkBSDbut a lot of people look up cheat codes. they read and memorize them.
02:56.35brlcaddon't necessarily mean fps games
02:57.06fennthere are some horrendously complex mmorpg's these days
02:57.49bjorkBSDhmmm.
02:57.55fennbrlcad: do you have any preferences about GUI implementation?
02:58.17brlcadcarefully? :)
03:00.53IriX64the one that allows "push the button and make it happen"
03:01.35IriX64ls=senirity list prints etc.
03:01.41IriX64err seniority
03:01.50brlcadfenn: mostly relating to efficiency taking precedence over preference or expectation
03:02.22brlcade.g. modalities in general bad, quasi-modes in general good
03:02.37fenncould you explain what you mean by modality?
03:02.59IriX64doesnt go away when u press the mouse.
03:03.01bjorkBSDeg: vi's modes, brlcad?
03:03.45IriX64system modal = nightmare.
03:03.59fennwould you consider qcad's switching to the selection mode toolbar when you need to pick a point == a modality?
03:05.03IriX64fenn... qcad=?
03:05.11fenna 2d drafting program
03:05.17IriX64ty
03:05.17bjorkBSDwhat about xfig's interface?
03:05.59brlcadfenn: modalities in general change the behavior of a users interaction devices (e.g. a mouse) without direct feedback or on-going active request of that change
03:06.40brlcadvi is a pretty extreme example where modalities done through and through can be efficient though making for a steep and opaque interface
03:07.10fenni've never learned how to use vi
03:07.17bjorkBSDoh it's awesome!
03:07.19fenn:q!
03:07.23bjorkBSDtsk tsk :P
03:07.38brlcadfenn: a selection mode toolbar isn't a modality in the classical sense since you are given active visual feedback through a change in your cursor device
03:07.39bjorkBSDit's really neat. and ed is neater.
03:08.05IriX64so is edlin
03:08.08IriX64:)
03:08.21IriX64+e
03:08.29brlcadthe main downside of modalities isn't the mode itself but the potential and frequency of mode errors when you attempt operations outside that mode that could otherwise be expected
03:09.53bjorkBSDedlin? it's a poor copy of ed!
03:10.05bjorkBSDthat's where the beep comes in.
03:10.08IriX64Mr Ed?
03:10.18bjorkBSDor in ed's case, the almighty '?'
03:10.24brlcadexample modality error might be something like being in insert mode in vi, and attempting to delete a character while inserting by hitting the backspace key
03:10.46IriX64have you never seen mred?
03:10.55IriX64os/2 programmers editor.
03:11.25bjorkBSDis it like ed?
03:11.53IriX64its beautiful, a graphical programmers editor doing just about anything you want.
03:12.06IriX64too bad he never ported it to windows.
03:12.11brlcadthe user must consciously change their locus of attention away from their desired task/operation (modifying some text in an editor) and consider the mode they are in while performing operations, with some modes being worse than others especially when you stop talking about editors and move towards gui modes
03:13.20IriX64if your curious check http://hobbes.nmsu.edu
03:14.00brlcadif you're really interested, there are very compelling examples and discussion in "The Humane Interface" by Jef Raskin.  good real world examples, academic research, and mathematical foundations of interface efficiency explained
03:14.15fennthanks for the reference
03:14.16brlcadamong a couple other books that are reference in raskin's book
03:14.17bjorkBSDi've got the humane interface.
03:14.25brlcadit's a quick read
03:14.38bjorkBSDbrlcad, have you ever used plan9?
03:14.50fennfrom OUTER SPACE
03:14.53brlcadno, but i'm interested
03:15.39bjorkBSDthe main text editor on there's pretty cool.
03:15.44brlcadraskin's ideas on a zoomable interface are some of the most interesting (and radical)
03:15.46bjorkBSDit's called acme.
03:16.46fenni like using the scroll wheel for zooming
03:17.27bjorkBSDi like the scroll wheel.
03:17.31bjorkBSDpretty damned cool toy.
03:17.45fennthere is definitely something to be said for auto-zoom to a particular object
03:17.47bjorkBSDin rio, i use it for switching from screen to screen.
03:18.08fenn(in addition to manual scrolling)
03:21.52bjorkBSDhmmm.
03:21.54fennah nice they actually have that book at my library
03:22.08bjorkBSDhooray! the damned thing works now.
03:22.22bjorkBSDthere must be something wrong with pkg_add indeed.
03:22.36IriX64compilation time?
03:22.59IriX64don't tell ``Erik i asked ;)
03:24.47bjorkBSDi have no idea.
03:24.51bjorkBSDi was multitasking :D
03:25.04bjorkBSDsee, i use this new fangled unix thing...
03:25.06IriX64*read the summary.
03:25.42IriX64nfix eh :P
03:25.56bjorkBSDah it'd scrolled off.
03:25.59bjorkBSDbut here you go.
03:26.03bjorkBSDElapsed installation time: 4 minutes, 24 seconds
03:26.03bjorkBSDElapsed time since configuration: 2 hours, 7 minutes, 40 seconds
03:26.24IriX64urf a 286 :)
03:27.01IriX64i'm on my second run.
03:27.29bjorkBSDsecond run of what?
03:27.32IriX64now go to modes->multi-pane and tell me what you see.
03:28.00IriX64compilation of course.
03:28.16bjorkBSDsecond run? is this a sport for you? :))
03:28.31IriX64whats 18.2?
03:28.32bjorkBSDmultipanes.
03:28.39bjorkBSD4
03:28.55IriX64it let you do that without loading a database?
03:29.05IriX64urrrfffff
03:29.17IriX64thats a good bug ill leave it in.
03:30.40IriX64+ <------ use your imagination as to what that represents.
03:30.54IriX64+ = multipane
03:31.08IriX64ur,lr.ul,ll
03:31.36IriX64.=,
03:32.37bjorkBSDwhat on earth?
03:32.47bjorkBSDwhich database?
03:32.50bjorkBSDit just worked
03:33.06IriX64load havoc.g
03:33.55IriX64brlcad: do i have a bug i can't find or is there something wrong when trying to do an e on terra contents?
03:34.05IriX64terra.g
03:34.56IriX64should be a way to check databases for integrity, sticky note applied.
03:35.04bjorkBSDoh!
03:35.06bjorkBSDi see now.
03:35.32bjorkBSD'+' didn't work.
03:37.42IriX64which + key did you use they do different things :P
03:40.18IriX64say bjorkBSD does an upside down flag mean anything?
03:40.34bjorkBSDhmm. not sure. but i thought it did.
03:40.45bjorkBSDi know a flag flying at half mast means there's been a death.
03:40.55IriX64specialy on site.
03:41.12IriX64you type fast.
03:41.31IriX64:)
03:41.43fennraskin's zooming UI reminds me of the jurassic park interface
03:43.26bjorkBSDthat one's from irix, actually fenn.
03:43.39fenni know, i have the linux version right here :)
03:43.40bjorkBSDbut his zooming interface is different.
03:43.47bjorkBSDthe linux version?! whoa where?
03:45.32bjorkBSDhmm. blender and brl-CAD. no overlaps right?
03:46.10fennbjorkBSD: http://fsv.sourceforge.net/
03:46.11brlcadno, there are some .. just not in the fundamental criteria
03:46.43brlcadabout as much overlap as unigraphics overlaps with maya
03:47.48brlcadfenn: raskin's book better talks about his ideas than his project that he started before his passing does imho
03:48.56brlcadthough the project was the beginning of an attempt to put one of the more radical ideas into practice, and has kicked off as a project on it's own
03:49.01brlcadson's leading it iirc
03:51.06IriX64$ ERROR: NULL bu_mapped_file pointer, file g_dsp.c, line 3135
03:51.12IriX64?????
03:51.33IriX64can't find this, only happens on terra.g
03:51.48IriX64get mapped file opne failed at load time.
03:51.53IriX64open too.
03:52.49bjorkBSDi don't get that.
03:52.55bjorkBSDdo you open it from the shell?
03:52.57IriX64on terra?
03:53.07IriX64from the gui.
03:54.01bjorkBSDhmm should i do it from there?
03:54.06bjorkBSDi did it from the shell.
03:55.08IriX6410 mapped file open failed messages on mged window, and if i try to e terra.n_sm it bombs.
03:56.32IriX64havoc on the other hand displays beautifully.
03:58.51IriX64Requesting 16 cpus, only 1 available. Will use 1.
03:58.51IriX64BRL-CAD Release 10.0.0   The BRL-CAD Raytracer RT
03:58.51IriX64<PROTECTED>
03:58.51IriX64<PROTECTED>
03:58.51IriX64BRL-CAD Release 10.0.0   The BRL-CAD Ray-Tracing Library
03:59.25*** join/#brlcad DTRemenak|RDP (n=DTRemena@c-24-23-59-104.hsd1.ca.comcast.net)
04:01.02bjorkBSD10.0?
04:01.08bjorkBSDi thought it was on 7.8.2?
04:01.35IriX64i don't release this stuff thats for my own use.
04:01.51IriX64stuff you want is on sourceforge.
04:02.15IriX64Requesting 16 cpus, only 1 available. Will use 1.
04:02.15IriX64BRL-CAD Release 10.0.0   The BRL-CAD Raytracer RT
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04:02.16IriX64BRL-CAD Release 10.0.0   The BRL-CAD Ray-Tracing Library
04:02.25IriX64bah
04:02.34IriX64paste errrrffff.
04:04.07brlcadyou're good at that
04:04.26IriX64king of oop ill have you know :P
04:07.23IriX64SHOT: cpu = 6.469 sec, elapsed = 180.507 sec
04:07.25IriX64<PROTECTED>
04:07.27IriX64<PROTECTED>
04:07.29IriX64Additional mem=1507328., #malloc=891, #free=710, #realloc=31 (181 retained)
04:07.31IriX643457429 solid/ray intersections: 772185 hits + 2685244 miss
04:07.33IriX64pruned 22.3%:  55 model RPP, 17251462 dups skipped, 5048503 solid RPP
04:07.35IriX64Frame  0:     476100 pixels in      6.47 sec =     73597.16 pixels/sec
04:07.37IriX64Frame  0:     502887 rays   in      6.47 sec =     77737.98 rays/sec (RTFM)
04:07.39IriX64Frame  0:     502887 rays   in      6.47 sec =     77737.98 rays/CPU_sec
04:07.41IriX64Frame  0:     502887 rays   in    180.51 sec =      2785.97 rays/sec (wallclock)
04:07.43IriX64Raytrace complete.
04:09.42IriX64farg it need nicotine bbiab.
04:16.34bjorkBSDholy shit! i just made a fucking tea cup! :x
04:18.07bjorkBSDokay! i'm gonna need a gallon of coffee.
04:27.48*** join/#brlcad MarioD (n=who@toronto-HSE-ppp4302174.sympatico.ca)
04:30.47MarioD<IriX64> 3457429 solid/ray intersections: 772185 hits + 2685244 miss
04:30.47MarioD<IriX64> pruned 22.3%:  55 model RPP, 17251462 dups skipped, 5048503 solid RPP
04:30.47MarioD<IriX64> Frame  0:     476100 pixels in      6.47 sec =     73597.16 pixels/sec
04:30.47MarioD<IriX64> Frame  0:     502887 rays   in      6.47 sec =     77737.98 rays/sec (RTFM)
04:30.47MarioD<IriX64> Frame  0:     502887 rays   in      6.47 sec =     77737.98 rays/CPU_sec
04:30.47MarioD<IriX64> Frame  0:     502887 rays   in    180.51 sec =      2785.97 rays/sec (wallclock)
04:30.49MarioD<IriX64> Raytrace complete.
04:31.02MarioDahhh
04:31.21MarioDill leave on my own, sorry all
04:31.36bjorkBSDeh? what's the hurry?
08:58.00*** join/#brlcad clock_ (n=clock@zux221-122-143.adsl.green.ch)
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16:59.10*** topic/#brlcad is http://brlcad.org/ || BRL-CAD is an open source solid modeling software suite || Developers needed! Read the HACKING file for details on getting involved
17:53.51*** join/#brlcad IriX64 (n=IriX64@toronto-HSE-ppp4304371.sympatico.ca)
17:54.13IriX64reville at 13:00 hrs hooo boy.
17:55.58IriX64havoc woke me up saying i'm ready to be rendered :)
17:56.13IriX64SHOT: cpu = 1.625 sec, elapsed = 9.773 sec
17:56.13IriX64<PROTECTED>
17:56.13IriX64<PROTECTED>
17:56.13IriX64Additional mem=1474560., #malloc=856, #free=706, #realloc=9 (150 retained)
17:56.14IriX64517310 solid/ray intersections: 229225 hits + 288085 miss
17:56.14IriX64pruned 44.3%:  376272 model RPP, 830955 dups skipped, 322967 solid RPP
17:56.16IriX64Frame  0:     476100 pixels in      1.62 sec =    292984.62 pixels/sec
17:56.18IriX64Frame  0:     480393 rays   in      1.62 sec =    295626.46 rays/sec (RTFM)
17:56.20IriX64Frame  0:     480393 rays   in      1.62 sec =    295626.46 rays/CPU_sec
17:56.22IriX64Frame  0:     480393 rays   in      9.77 sec =     49155.12 rays/sec (wallclock)
17:56.24IriX64Raytrace complete.
17:57.21IriX64mged>  ``Erik, can't touce your time tho :(
17:57.34IriX64err -mged
17:57.53IriX64touch too sigh.
17:59.07IriX64pick a database we'll compare notes.
18:03.09IriX64Low overhead scanline-per-CPU buffering
18:03.10IriX64SHOT: cpu = 3.734 sec, elapsed = 68.948 sec
18:03.10IriX64<PROTECTED>
18:03.10IriX64<PROTECTED>
18:03.10IriX64Additional mem=1495040., #malloc=859, #free=706, #realloc=13 (153 retained)
18:03.10IriX64949505 solid/ray intersections: 264717 hits + 684788 miss
18:03.12IriX64pruned 27.9%:  251771 model RPP, 3046044 dups skipped, 765668 solid RPP
18:03.14IriX64Frame  0:     476100 pixels in      3.73 sec =    127504.02 pixels/sec
18:03.16IriX64Frame  0:     481160 rays   in      3.73 sec =    128859.13 rays/sec (RTFM)
18:03.19IriX64Frame  0:     481160 rays   in      3.73 sec =    128859.13 rays/CPU_sec
18:03.20IriX64Frame  0:     481160 rays   in     68.95 sec =      6978.59 rays/sec (wallclock)
18:03.22IriX64Raytrace complete.
18:03.27IriX64wonder how much of this you'll tolerate :)
18:04.34IriX64ill stop now it's just that im so excited.
18:05.11IriX64bjorkBSD how's your effort coming along?
18:07.04IriX64come... it's real, you pick the database file ill post the shot times.
18:07.36IriX64except for terra.g im still trying to figure that one out.
18:09.05IriX64Requesting 16 cpus, only 1 available. Will use 1.
18:09.06IriX64BRL-CAD Release 10.0.0   The BRL-CAD Raytracer RT
18:09.06IriX64<PROTECTED>
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18:09.06IriX64BRL-CAD Release 10.0.0   The BRL-CAD Ray-Tracing Library
18:09.06IriX64<PROTECTED>
18:09.08IriX64<PROTECTED>
18:09.10IriX64BRL-CAD Release 10.0.0   The BRL-CAD Numerical Computation Library
18:09.12IriX64<PROTECTED>
18:09.14IriX64<PROTECTED>
18:09.16IriX64BRL-CAD Release 10.0.0   The BRL-CAD Utility Library
18:09.18IriX64<PROTECTED>
18:09.20IriX64<PROTECTED>
18:10.58IriX64WARNING: Compile-time debugging is enabled and may limit performance
18:12.17IriX64may I share my effort?
18:13.27IriX64ill try to ftp it to ftp://ftp.brlcad.org again.
18:15.40IriX64keeps aborting blah.
18:19.18IriX64trying again.
18:27.08IriX64mirrored floors? :)
18:31.17IriX64not bad for a 2.4ghz cpu.
18:34.34IriX64a 6hr xfer, can you wait orshould i abort it?
19:32.50CIA-9BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/libbu/linebuf.c: make linux less unhappy, setlinebuf() apparently returns void on linux so prefer to use setvbuf() when available so we can catch any error
19:33.14brlcadIriX64: just what ARE you doing...
19:33.34brlcadreally is no need to keep pasting that much stuff... :)
19:34.32brlcadthe rtfm line is the main useful one, though your wallclock time is incredibly skewed..
19:36.20brlcadit shouldn't be that far off of the rtfm count, implies something else is seriously taking up time on your system ..
19:48.41*** join/#brlcad clock_ (i=clock@84-72-94-1.dclient.hispeed.ch)
19:49.11bjorkBSDIriX64, i'm gonna do the teacup again, this time i'll watch what happens carefully.
19:49.30bjorkBSDbrb
19:50.02clock_brlcad: surfboard rulez!
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19:51.53brlcadok
19:55.25IriX64thanks brlcad i'll bring up task manager and check it ;)
19:55.56IriX64teacup which database is it?
19:56.10IriX64ah the tutorial i c.
19:56.36bjorkBSDyeah.
19:56.39IriX64brlcad's being polite, read screwed for scewed :)
19:56.52bjorkBSDIriX64, what are you doing?
19:56.59bjorkBSDi keep seeing brlcad 10.0.0
19:57.21IriX64told you thats for my benifit.
19:58.49bjorkBSD<PROTECTED>
19:58.53bjorkBSDc'mon! fess up. i seem to be on version 7.
19:59.53IriX64as long as i don't spread this stuff around i can play with it to my hearts content, im just playing with the version number to test something else bjorkBSD.
20:00.23IriX64and you don't know what version you are on? :)
20:10.23IriX64Frame  0:     476100 rays   in      0.53 sec =    896610.17 rays/sec (RTFM)
20:10.38IriX64Fthis bldg391 on v9.0.4 brlcad.
20:10.57IriX64default scale.
20:11.23bjorkBSDoh i see. are you a brl developer?
20:11.38bjorkBSDi'm on 7.8.2
20:12.08IriX64why did you guys hard code the resources directories man? (duh goof thats the way it evolved)
20:12.16IriX64:)
20:12.50IriX64no bjorkBSD i am not a devloper more of a lone wolf.
20:13.18IriX64ooooowwwwwwwwwwoooooooooooooo :)   (lunch)
20:13.35bjorkBSDi see.
20:13.42bjorkBSDdoesn't brl remind you of logo?
20:13.46IriX64truly?
20:15.41bjorkBSDit's an ancient language.
20:15.53IriX64should tie it to --prefix the resources directories i mean.
20:17.30IriX64computer language?
20:18.33IriX64BRL-CAD Release 9.0.4   The BRL-CAD Raytracer RT
20:18.44IriX64happy bjorkBSD?
20:19.40IriX64WARNING: Compile-time debugging is enabled and may limit performance
20:19.58IriX64time for a speedy gonzales build ill bbiab.
20:20.28bjorkBSDit's coming down :D
20:21.07IriX64?
20:21.15IriX64the cup?
20:21.50bjorkBSDno. your version numbers.
20:22.03IriX64fell back a few builds.
20:22.36bjorkBSDinteresting.
20:22.40IriX64./autogen.sh    love it:)
20:25.37brlcadIriX64: the resources directory isn't hard coded
20:27.41IriX64but it comes up and says this build expects resources to be at .....
20:29.24IriX64never mind... you are correct.
20:29.41bjorkBSDIriX64, i encountered that problem because i had brlcad in my .cshrc path
20:29.48bjorkBSDBRLCAD_ROOT ie.
20:30.15IriX64i encountered it because i have six directories on the go.
20:31.22IriX64bear in mind i dont play with path here or dirset.
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20:43.36brlcadit uses a search path ordering to find the data resources, where the BRLCAD_ROOT/DATA environment variables override if they exist
20:44.08brlcadthe windows binaries basically don't do the proper searching yet, so they report an error even though the resources are found
20:44.45IriX64windows binaries?
20:47.13brlcadif you're not running windows binaries, then that error probably means something wasn't compiled/installed correctly as the output suggests
20:47.51IriX64truth (how do i make the pedestal of trvth in ascii) :)
20:49.21brlcad___
20:49.22brlcad\
20:49.26brlcad\/ \
20:49.43IriX64:)
20:49.45brlcadoh well
20:49.57IriX64harder than a cow :)
20:50.20brlcad<PROTECTED>
20:50.23brlcad<PROTECTED>
20:50.31brlcadthere we go
20:50.40IriX64thats better i can stand on it.
20:50.51IriX64errr you can stand on it.
21:00.27ValarQ<PROTECTED>
21:00.27ValarQ<PROTECTED>
21:00.27ValarQ<PROTECTED>
21:00.27ValarQ<PROTECTED>
21:00.58ValarQcows sure are easier :)
21:01.04IriX64applause... its been years since ive seen that :)
21:01.37IriX64<ValarQ>       ,__,
21:01.37IriX64<ValarQ>       (oo)____
21:01.37IriX64<ValarQ>       (__)    )\
21:01.38IriX64<ValarQ>          ||--|| *
21:01.38IriX64<ValarQ> cows sure are easier :)
21:01.38IriX64<IriX64> applause... its been years since ive seen that :)
21:01.43IriX64<PROTECTED>
21:02.01ValarQyou sure like to flood this channel :P
21:02.19IriX64never kicks me tho i must lead a charmed life :)
21:02.51IriX64or the bot is someone I know.
21:03.19ValarQyou haven't thought about switching to irssi?
21:03.34IriX64where do i get it?
21:03.51brlcadyes, the pastes of what other people have already written in particular is getting annoying :P
21:03.52ValarQthe local ports system or at http://irssi.org/
21:04.14IriX64ty and point taken brlcad :)
21:04.19ValarQirssi is clever in that it asks when pasting many lines
21:04.32IriX64so does mirc.
21:04.41ValarQnever used mirc actually
21:05.19ValarQbtw, can you run mirc on 64bit Irix? :P
21:05.27brlcadirssi is pretty sweet
21:06.46ValarQi say like they do with mutt, it's the least bad client out there :)
21:09.43CIA-9BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/configure.ac: check for the sys/un.h header in order to stop using the HAVE_UNIX_DOMAIN_SOCKETS define
21:10.27IriX64blargh actually expects gcc doesnt honour the cc variable, be ashamed irssi :)
21:10.54CIA-9BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/libpkg/pkg.c: s/HAVE_UNIX_DOMAIN_SOCKETS/HAVE_SYS_UN_H/g now that there is a new check in configure.ac
21:22.59IriX64brb
21:23.52*** join/#brlcad IriX64 (n=IriX64@toronto-HSE-ppp4304371.sympatico.ca)
21:24.12IriX64ValarQ so?   :)
21:24.33IriX64lets tru paste :P
21:24.38IriX64try too.
21:25.54IriX64Elapsed installation time: 7 minutes, 17 seconds
21:25.55IriX64Elapsed time since configuration: 42 minutes, 48 seconds
21:26.05IriX64couldnt resist :P
21:30.13IriX64dunno what ails perl support tho looking for irc dir and fails *shrug*
21:33.25IriX64smoke break bbiab
21:35.46bjorkBSDbrb
21:52.42IriX64i never could draw :)
22:04.31IriX64brb
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22:17.17IriX64ValorQ wheres the help screen in this thing.
22:17.29IriX64err ValarQ
22:17.52ValarQdunno
22:18.02IriX64thing being irssi :)
22:18.10ValarQtry /help
22:18.27IriX64tried /help.
22:20.53ValarQhttp://irssi.org/documentation/manual maybe :)
22:21.23IriX64maybe if i talk to it :)
22:21.48IriX64no need im not a warrior or anything.
22:22.57IriX64smoke break again.
22:36.32``Erikheh
23:12.58IriX64thank you ValorQ an interesting freaking cadillac of irc clients :)
23:13.09IriX64err ValarQ too.
23:15.30IriX64./who_am_i doesn't work ;)
23:16.08IriX64but this is not the channel to discuss the relative merits or lack of same in.
23:16.43IriX64cd /usr/brlcad/bin
23:19.12IriX64is sphflake the royal orb of Russia?
23:34.18*** join/#brlcad DTRemenak (n=DTRemena@c-24-23-59-104.hsd1.ca.comcast.net)
23:58.59``Erikit's just a recursive application of spheres...
Jeff Waugh - find it at freshmeat.net! Modified by Tim Riker to work with blootbot logs, split per channel, etc. irclog2html for #brlcad on 20060714

irclog2html for #brlcad on 20060714

00:34.39*** join/#brlcad IriX64 (n=IriX64@toronto-HSE-ppp4304371.sympatico.ca)
00:42.30IriX64urffff running on....
00:51.29*** join/#brlcad MarioD (n=mario_du@toronto-HSE-ppp4304371.sympatico.ca)
00:52.32brlcadIriX64: can you code?
00:52.44brlcador better put, are you interested in coding?
00:52.57IriX64i have a little experience.
00:53.20brlcadand by code, I mean either C/C++/Tcl or even web development
00:53.22IriX64let me shutdown this thing im playing with.
00:53.27*** part/#brlcad MarioD (n=mario_du@toronto-HSE-ppp4304371.sympatico.ca)
00:53.56IriX64i use c mixed with a little c++ know nothing about java or web html stuff.
00:54.41IriX64and a little asm too :)
00:55.12IriX64why the interest in me?
00:55.42brlcadno rush, just wondering .. because if you can and you are interested, i'm sure there's some rather productive things you could jump into
00:56.16IriX64ahh the topic is for real then, if im interested in developing, i can get involved?
00:56.30brlcadsure, anyone can get involved
00:56.50brlcadthe guidelines are pretty darn flexible
00:56.59IriX64ill think about it, i already have a pet project, but thanks.
00:57.08brlcadjust a thought
00:57.30brlcadyou seem to enjoy running the benchmarks.. there's several things that would be useful in that regard
00:57.42IriX64do a ver on me you probably already know what im doing.
00:58.11IriX64urrffff benchmarks, you assume much here.
00:58.37brlcads/benchmarks/ray-tracing/
00:58.47IriX64ahh
00:59.25brlcadthe brl-cad benchmark suite is based on ray-tracing as the domain metric, cpu-intensive task that exercises several core concepts
00:59.45brlcadwhile being a real world app instead of just multiplying two number 50 billion times
01:00.16brlcadthat's where the rtfm number comes into play, as well as the other numbers listed
01:00.35IriX64theres a file transfer about to finish to your ftp.brlcad.org, called linuxbrlcad. built for a i586-unix-linux system, would appreciate feedback.
01:00.57brlcadshould be able to test that one easily enough
01:01.16brlcadsure it's not for a cray 2 ? :)
01:01.25IriX64thankyou should create a diirectory call linuxbrlcad, put it anywhere.
01:01.41brlcadwhat prefix did you compile it for?
01:01.43IriX64not unless i sent you the wrong file ;)
01:01.51IriX64linuxbrlcad
01:02.01brlcadyou did --prefix=linuxbrlcad ?
01:02.13IriX64=/usr/linuxbrlcad
01:02.17brlcadahh
01:03.02brlcadthen the compile-time root is /usr/linuxbrlcad, BRLCAD_ROOT has to be set if it's relocated anywhere else
01:03.21IriX64why do you throttle your server, busy system?
01:03.38IriX64well do it :)
01:03.41brlcadwhich server? ftp?
01:03.44IriX64yes
01:03.50brlcadit's not throttled
01:04.00IriX6415kbps
01:04.11brlcadnor in the least bit busy network-wise
01:04.30IriX64file xfer finished, let me know.
01:04.44fennso i spent 5 or 6 hours looking around at various GUI and scenegraph libraries last night
01:04.56fennand didnt find any i liked :(
01:05.12IriX64was about to ask you and came up with?
01:05.33IriX64:)
01:06.13brlcadfenn: =)
01:06.31fenni guess i dont know whether to try to use brl-cad's built-in picking and display algorithms or ...
01:06.51IriX64begs the question whats scenegraph?   :)
01:06.59brlcadit's an epidemic problem.. nothing is really great at anything and every one of them are generally seriously lacking in some regard
01:07.17fenna data structure used to render stuff on the screen quickly
01:07.26fennyou can prune off branches that aren't visible for instance
01:07.37fennbut brlcad sorta has something like that already
01:07.51IriX64i like your shift grips scaling manner.
01:07.58IriX64so easy
01:08.18IriX64that help button saved me :)
01:08.58fennbrlcad: can i assume that 3 button mice (or at least 2 buttons) are available on all platforms?
01:09.01brlcadfenn: even brl-cad's picking and display code has it's share of warts and deficiencies to say the least
01:09.48IriX64fenn put it in (ducking and running)
01:09.52brlcadbrl-cad's concept of a display manager is a good one, very nice for making relatively no assumptions about a display.. but it's feature-lacking in terms of flexibility of a gui
01:09.53fenni think i want to copy a large part of blender's UI
01:10.23IriX64hey you dont like it make it better.
01:10.27brlcadblender's ui layer is actually a fairly self-contained chunk of code in a library iirc
01:11.19IriX64smoke break.
01:12.34brlcadfor scenegraph management, there's one project that really has a lot of momentum going -- openscenegraph
01:12.53brlcadcontext and gui/widget management, however, is another story
01:12.56fennyeah that and ogre3d
01:13.06fennthey're both humongous monsters though
01:13.17brlcadogre's nice.. but it has a series of other issues
01:14.36brlcadi have a list of notes somewhere when I was doing extensive evaluation of a lot of packages several months back.. should put it up on a wiki or something
01:15.17brlcadone thing I did like from ogre was cegui
01:15.32fennhehe me too
01:15.38brlcadthat eddie has got a crazy library going there
01:17.32brlcadogre's performance is less than optimal by quite a bit, their design is pretty clean/nice, platform support is unfortunately limited from what we're used to needing, license is good
01:18.11fennhow is it less than optimal?
01:19.32brlcadthey're working on mild game environments, relatively optimized low polygon counts, and getting "middle" okay framerates
01:20.14brlcadadd in something nice and complex like you'd often have on a CAD part and it goes through the floor, had some little test programs, test models
01:20.37fennhm
01:20.38brlcadi'm sure it's probably something fixable, and hardware will of course pick up.. that wasn't a critical concern, just noteworthy
01:21.00brlcadplatform support was more disconcerting actually
01:21.05fennand you didnt have this problem with openscenegraph?
01:22.45brlcadyeah, performance was considerably better albeit without some of the bells and whistles ogre can do.  osg doesn't have the platform problems iirc too or very many external dependencies
01:23.22brlcadbiggest issue that comes to mind sans notes is that they didn't have as clean an api, and they were "bigger" and slightly more complex
01:23.29fennthing is we don't need 90% of the bells 'n whistles ogre can do
01:23.31brlcadnot nearly as complex a beast as crystalspace
01:23.35brlcadyep
01:24.03brlcadogre is primarily a rendering engine according to the devs I spoke with, not even a gaming engine first
01:24.16fennseems like libraries should post a list of dependencies on the front page
01:25.45brlcadthey really should, i had to really dig on some projects
01:25.59brlcadlooking into things like their debian spec sheet to find the list
01:26.10fennyikes
01:26.11brlcador their freebsd ports entry
01:26.40brlcaddon't recall ogre's deps being bad
01:26.53brlcadit did end up in my top 5
01:27.30``Erik*yawn*
01:27.50``Erikewie
01:29.21``ErikI think I forgot to commit before I left today
01:55.28IriX64green text on a black background ... nice
01:57.10IriX64hahaha mircdcc?
01:59.00IriX64might become my new favorite client.
01:59.59brlcadwhich is that?
02:00.08IriX64irssi
02:00.14brlcadahh, good good
02:00.26IriX64nice client.
02:00.34brlcadvery nice
02:00.49IriX64well behaved lots of toys etc. :)
02:01.17IriX64rehash? this thing has a bot?
02:02.52IriX64in a galaxy far far away, .... client wars :)
02:03.40IriX64well theres a code generator calling me, ill go into lurk mode.
02:39.26*** join/#brlcad ibot (i=ibot@rikers.org)
02:39.26*** topic/#brlcad is http://brlcad.org/ || BRL-CAD is an open source solid modeling software suite || Developers needed! Read the HACKING file for details on getting involved
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03:25.19fennsurf's up dude.. ride the netsplit like you just don't care
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05:02.05IriX64_erf
05:02.19IriX64_is nickserv down?
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15:03.15CIA-9BRL-CAD: 03erikgreenwald * 10brlcad/include/ (db5.h raytrace.h rtgeom.h): claiming a number for metaballs
15:03.42clock_erik always does O_o
15:03.48``Erikbull fuckin shit
15:03.49``Eriko.O
15:03.54clock_OK o.O
15:03.56``Eriksee, a dot, not an underscore
15:03.59``ErikO.o
15:04.16clock_what does it actually mean?
15:04.28``Erikeither a cocked eyebrow, or a 'bill the cat' look
15:05.21``Erikhttp://www.chimique.usherbrooke.ca/crtp/profs/Bill.jpg
15:06.16clock_funny
15:06.31clock_what does cocked eyebrow mean?
15:07.13``Erikhttp://publish.uwo.ca/~jpalmer/images/cocked%20eyebrow.jpg
15:07.25``Erikg00gle r0x0rz
15:07.45clock_yes I know what cocked eyebrow looks like but what does it mean?
15:08.08``ErikI d'no *shrug* :D
15:08.12``ErikI just like makin' faces
15:08.31clock_OK that's a reasonable explanation :)
15:10.26clock_``Erik: are you also a surfer like brlcad>?
15:11.19``Eriknyet
15:11.47``Erik<-- couch potato
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15:19.08IriX64ermf the cygwin effort aborts when you press control c to abort a paste :)
15:19.46``Erikerm, ^c is SIGTERM
15:20.06IriX64why doesnt it die in the unix environment then.
15:20.27``Erikcuz it runs detached? *shrug*
15:20.58IriX64bash: IriX64@hagars-py0qj2wb: command not found
15:21.27IriX64here it did not even ask for confirmation.
15:24.20IriX64$ usage: autossh [-M monitor_port] [-f] [SSH_OPTIONS]
15:24.30IriX64what gives here?
15:24.57IriX64in the win environment it asks for confirmation on a paste, here nada.
15:25.09clock_``Erik: do you work at the same place as brlcad?
15:25.51IriX64perhaps i should take this to #irssi   :)
15:26.04``Eriksame building, yeah
15:30.52clock_``Erik: yes cracks will develop in the CPUs
15:32.02``ErikI've seen issues with brlcad's build system going TOO parallel...
15:34.17clock_then aren't the dependencies badly written?
15:39.37brlcadmore than likely a make race-condition bug
15:40.52``Erikor I did something stupid or had an nfs blowout
15:41.05``Eriksean, do you review all the commits?
15:41.10brlcadyeah
15:41.26``Erikok, so if I oops, you'll let me know
15:41.36brlcadcareful on those MAX id defines.. one of them is the max define for the primitive lookup table
15:41.57``Erikhm, both were 36, and I bumped 'em both...
15:41.59brlcadwhich is an array.. and if you don't add the table entry, it's going to segfault
15:42.10``Eriklibrt/table.c ?
15:42.18brlcadyeah
15:42.50``Erikhm
15:42.57``Erikso I should throw a skeleton in quick
15:43.24brlcadi'm rather concerned about a comment I left in..
15:43.27brlcad"Add a new primitive id above here (this is will break v5 format)"
15:44.46brlcadi don't recall that being the case, have to think about it some more and test it
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15:45.07brlcadbut yeah, should throw in a skeleton table entry, even if they're all nul
15:52.34``Erikdoink
15:52.56CIA-9BRL-CAD: 03erikgreenwald * 10brlcad/src/librt/ (g_metaball.c Makefile.am table.c): initial metaball support (skeletal)
15:53.45clock_g_meatball.c ;-)
15:53.59``Erikyup, meatballs
15:54.11``Erikon top of spaghetti... all covered with cheese...
15:58.34``Erikdamnit, now I'm hungry
15:58.40``ErikI want swedish meatballs... :(
15:59.14``Erikif vegetarians only eat vegetables, what's a humanitarian eat?
16:00.18clock_only humans
16:00.19ValarQi'm a bit of a second grade vegetarian, i only eat vegetarians
16:00.30clock_vegetarianarian
16:00.35ValarQ:)
16:01.15clock_o.O strikes again
16:01.20``Erikvalarq: you don't eat pig or fish?
16:01.35clock_meatarian is who doesn't eats vegetables only meat
16:01.52ValarQ``Erik: only pigs and fish that eat vegetables
16:02.19clock_better to figure out a whole family tree of the food
16:02.27``Erikhow do you know?
16:02.33clock_what if the vegetables grow on a cemetery?
16:02.35ValarQi don't
16:02.45clock_they grow up from meat
16:03.00clock_cemetarian - ets only zombies :)
16:03.01ValarQisn't it ok to wrongly assume things? :o)
16:03.21``Erikopposed to a cementarian?
16:03.28clock_Hi. I am 103 years old so I am a so called cemetarian :)
16:03.47``Erikmmm, cement, yummy
16:06.31``Erikbitch
16:06.42brlcadheh
16:06.49``ErikI think I'm skipping lunch today
16:07.02brlcadhave to go tag/title the blue whale
16:07.08clock_there is some saying something like that if someone is cute that he's like to be eaten or something like that
16:07.10``Erikif I go to duclaws, I'll wanna stop by home and take my growlers...
16:07.11clock_how is it exactly?
16:07.31brlcadnever heard that saying
16:07.31``Erik"so cute you could just eat him up?" said by ancient blue-haired women?
16:07.40brlcadahh
16:07.49clock_only ancient blue-haired women say that?
16:08.00brlcad"he's so cute, I could just eat him [alive]"
16:08.12``Erikwhen they bust out a knife and fork, RUN
16:09.27``Erikyou only eat surfers?
16:09.29clock_when I was a kid I realized that if you stick a magnet into sand, it will pull out little iron grains out.
16:09.45clock_There is so little iron grains in the sand that I don't see them and think there are actually no iron grains
16:10.05ValarQhttp://arda.no-ip.org/blocket_340.jpg
16:10.10ValarQthere's one :)
16:10.15clock_``Erik: do you know any other class of cute boys?
16:11.55``Erik<-- doesn't look for cute boys, ain't that way, sorry
16:13.55brlcadmm.. surfer instructor girl.. I would have probably enjoyed that
16:14.14clock_brlcad: should I inform her?
16:14.19clock_brlcad: she looks cute
16:14.30``Erikheh, hell of a drive, though...
16:14.36brlcadis she within driving distance? :)
16:14.45clock_brlcad: depends on how strong is your sexual drive
16:15.09brlcadheh
16:15.30clock_brlcad: I guess you must be doing the lifting also for a similar purpose, don't you? :)
16:16.23``Erikheh, do you lift to get the sort of gay boys that clock likes, dude?
16:16.25``Erik:>
16:16.57clock_``Erik: in brlcad case it will probably translate to girls
16:17.18``Erikhehehe I d'no, he dresses too snappy... I'm kinda wondering
16:17.27``Erik*duck* :D
16:17.33clock_snappy means what? smart?
16:18.06ValarQheh
16:20.59``Erikhrmph, none of my graphics books talk about metaballs
16:21.25AbsTradELichi
16:22.02clock_AbsTradELic: hi your name sounds Czech
16:22.03brlcadjeans and a clean shirt is snappy? heh
16:23.33AbsTradELicok... hi all !
16:23.50AbsTradELicits my first time become here
16:24.01AbsTradELicI found the project on web
16:24.25AbsTradELicand found refers to this irc channel
16:24.54AbsTradELicI have difficulties with english dialet, but I know the sufficient to understand
16:25.14``Erikyeah, you and your CLEAN tshirts, wtf
16:25.25clock_dialect, a nice name for a world language :)
16:25.51*** join/#brlcad IriX64 (n=IriX64@toronto-HSE-ppp4306739.sympatico.ca)
16:26.29IriX64bugs in x11 (moved to ultra mega lightyears backburner) :)
16:26.32brlcadAbsTradELic: howdy, and yes sufficient to understand
16:26.59clock_AbsTradELic: your english is actually quite good
16:27.13AbsTradELictnk u
16:27.30AbsTradELicmy native language is portuguese
16:27.38AbsTradELicand I live in brazil
16:27.46brlcadAbsTradELic: aunque parece que eres de brazil, yo entiendo espanol si te conviene
16:28.10AbsTradELicbrlcad: english is better to me
16:28.16brlcadfor me to ;)
16:28.31``Erikyo quiero taco bell, nacho grande burrito supreme spaghetti
16:28.43AbsTradELiceeheeehee
16:28.46brlcadmm.. spagetti sounds good
16:28.57IriX64watch it ``Erik that last word is me ;)
16:28.58clock_supreme spaghetti even better
16:29.03``Erik"damnit, beavis, that's not even spanish! go to the principals office!"
16:29.29brlcadIriX64: you're a noodle?
16:29.38brlcadcovered in sauce?
16:29.40IriX64yeah and a meatball :)
16:29.43clock_AbsTradELic: have you had Czech Ancestors so your name is Vladimir?
16:29.57clock_meatball in graphic book. Too graphic book.
16:29.58AbsTradELicnops
16:30.04clock_AbsTradELic: then Russian?
16:30.14IriX64ahh come its all light teasing.
16:30.26brlcadlight seasoning?
16:30.35``Erikdon't make him go all impaler on your ass, clock :)
16:30.46clock_``Erik: what does impaler mean?
16:30.52IriX64heh
16:30.56``Erikum, 'vlad the impaler'?
16:31.02AbsTradELicI really dont understand why my dad put this name in me
16:31.08IriX64val the stick
16:31.20IriX64sos the rope.
16:31.21clock_AbsTradELic: but it sounds really cool
16:31.33clock_Vladimir de Almeida
16:32.00``Erikbasarab?
16:32.01AbsTradELicVladimir de Almeida Fernandes
16:32.06clock_even better
16:32.15IriX64ValarQ what are you running your irssi if i may ask?
16:32.22IriX64on i mean.
16:32.42clock_AbsTradELic: and do you have some problem with brlcad?
16:32.42brlcadany relation to Laurindo Almeida (famous classic guitarist)?
16:33.05IriX64os?
16:33.06brlcadheh, bombarded with personal questions and the guy just wants to talk about cad :)
16:33.36clock_AbsTradELic: are you gay?
16:33.44AbsTradELicI have downloaded the brlcad and uncompress it into my usr/local/src
16:33.45IriX64p?=sop   :)
16:34.12brlcadclock_: not exactly appropriate to toss sexuality into the mix out of the blue :P
16:34.16AbsTradELicits a compiled to ia32
16:34.34IriX64ia32=?
16:34.37clock_brlcad: it's harmless. A heterosexual says "no" and a homosexual sends a quesry
16:34.39clock_query
16:34.46``Erikia32 is intel arch 32... pentiums, etc...
16:34.53IriX64ty
16:34.56brlcadperhaps harmless, still inappropriate in that manner for here
16:35.15IriX64won't canonicalize ``Erik :)
16:35.17``Erikput your willy away, clock, we got tech talk goin'... :)
16:35.36clock_brlcad: yes but if you say a remark about girls, it's also sexuality (a majority one)
16:35.42AbsTradELicallright here ?
16:35.47clock_brlcad: so is talking about girls forbidden here?
16:35.52brlcadAbsTradELic: if you downloaded a binary distribution of brl-cad, it expects to be installed into /usr/brlcad
16:36.11AbsTradELicI'll move it
16:36.11brlcadclock_: i didn't say talking about it is forbidden.. bringing it up out of the blue can be
16:36.17clock_``Erik: homosexuality is not only about willy. It's about emotions, too. This one was about sexuality, and not mine :)
16:36.34clock_brlcad: OK if bringing girls out of the blue is not appropriate, then I admmit my fault.
16:37.24brlcadclock_: i mean we've clearly talked about both in the past, usually a gradual change of topic .. that however just wasn't gradual, especially to a new channel "visitor"
16:37.28``ErikAbsTradELic: did you make sure to get the binaries for the right operating systme, aw well? FreeBSD binaries will not run on Linux... etc...
16:37.42``Eriks/aw/as/
16:37.50brlcadif it had been a girl and ``Erik started hitting on her asking age etc, it would have been just as inappropriate imho
16:38.03``Erik!~#!~@ A/S/L~!!!!
16:38.05brlcadnot that he does that :)
16:38.05``Erik*duck*
16:38.08brlcadheh
16:38.23AbsTradELic``Erik: ;)
16:38.26IriX64well you are entitled to an opion no matter how wrong it may be brlcad :)
16:38.40clock_brlcad: or download the source. It compiles fine. The README says how to compile but I guess it's just ./configure && make && make install
16:38.47clock_then it tells you to put some path into the PATH
16:38.58clock_so you do it and then run "mged" and it will start up
16:39.34brlcadIriX64: right or wrong, my opinion prevails in this particular forum
16:39.39clock_AbsTradELic: you can put the path into /etc/profile, /etc/env.d or ~/.profile, ~/.bash_profile or ~/.bashrc (depends on operating system and how it's set up)
16:39.47IriX64mea cupa :)
16:39.56AbsTradELic``Erik: linux
16:40.03AbsTradELicits allright here
16:40.57clock_AbsTradELic: which one? Gentoo? Debian?
16:41.09AbsTradELicslackware
16:41.29clock_AbsTradELic: do you know where to put the BRLCAD_PATH or how it's called?
16:41.38brlcadi have several girl friends i know on irc that get "attacked" when they go into channels, quite something I won't tolerate regardless of the gender .. the conversation can always be taken private or to a different channel ;)
16:42.28AbsTradELiccan I put it on /etc/rc.d/rc.loal
16:42.30AbsTradELic?
16:42.30clock_brlcad: yes but my question is basically a query into the replicator configuration register - the same sort as "are you a girl or a boy"?
16:42.45AbsTradELic*rc.local
16:42.59*** join/#brlcad DTRemenak (n=DTRemena@c-24-23-59-104.hsd1.ca.comcast.net)
16:43.07clock_AbsTradELic: yes that should work. Put it there, reboot and see if PATH is ammended.
16:43.13clock_Otherwise put it into your /home/user/.profile
16:43.15brlcadDTRemenak: are you a girl or a boy
16:43.31brlcadclock_: see that's a wierd thing to ask out of the blue too ;)
16:43.33clock_Try to log into a console and then X Window System. It should be in both. If it isn't you have to tamper with the files until it is
16:43.38AbsTradELicplz, wait me to fine adjusts
16:43.48brlcadjust happens that I sort of know DTRemenak fortunately, so it's all in good fun
16:44.18DTRemenakbrlcad: ...
16:44.23brlcadheh
16:44.27clock_DTRemenak: your name sounds Czech
16:44.37DTRemenakclock_: close...anglicized polish
16:45.22clock_brlcad: OK if asking about boy and girl is weird, then fully accept. Mea culpa.
16:45.45clock_AbsTrAWAY: sorry if my question caused you a mental block or something like that
16:46.01ValarQIriX64: i run irssi on my computer
16:46.48ValarQIriX64: AMD64 X2 with Gentoo GNU/Linux
16:47.05brlcadDTRemenak: heh, a_delusion comes to mind for some reason
16:47.22IriX64does it ask for confirm on paste attempt ValarQ?
16:47.38DTRemenakheh
16:47.46brlcadclock_: no big deal
16:48.11clock_brlcad: if I behave this way, people get pissed. If I don't, I can miss some boy
16:48.46brlcadclock_: maybe get to know them first, just a little more slowly ;)
16:48.57IriX64arithimetic-shift-left-shift-right 102 why ``Erik?
16:49.05clock_For a gay gue probably even a worse nightmare than being buried alive :)
16:49.19``Erikbook two of the brlcad manual, 'introduction to mged'
16:49.50clock_brlcad: yes I could lose them because of recoil, that makes sense
16:49.55ValarQIriX64: yeah, i don't know how it works thought
16:50.59IriX64ValarQ: thanks. :( mine no longer does.
16:51.26IriX64ahhh well call it a feature, no nag :)
16:51.34ValarQIriX64: it might depend on the terminal used
16:51.36clock_brlcad: AbsTrAWAY basically needs to install either binary or source, and then set the PATH, is it right?
16:51.55IriX64bash is a terminal ;)
16:52.05ValarQIriX64: no, it isn't
16:52.07``Erikbash is a shell, a terminal is a terminal
16:52.25IriX64still talks to the shell.
16:52.46ValarQIriX64: the apps doesn't
16:52.54IriX64so where does the terminal beging and the shell end :)
16:53.04IriX64begin
16:53.09AbsTradELicok... PATH environment adjusted
16:53.22AbsTradELic/usr/brlcad/bin
16:53.25AbsTradELicadded
16:53.27clock_AbsTradELic: cool try to type mged do some windows pop up?
16:53.41IriX64you could just have changed dir to /usr/brlcad/bin and done a ./mged
16:53.42ValarQIriX64: a shell only interprets commands
16:53.50clock_AbsTradELic: 2 windows should pop up
16:54.12brlcadclock_: technically don't need to set PATH either, but then you have to type /usr/brlcad/bin/mged instead of just mged
16:54.29clock_brlcad: does it find it's own files then?
16:54.29brlcadyes
16:54.31IriX64ValarQ: and a terminal does nothing but communicate with the shell or app.
16:54.48``Erik*grouse* this book does not tell me what I want to know. I must whup up on lee when he gets back for this...
16:55.03ValarQIriX64: quite true, but the app doesn't talk very much with the shell
16:55.07IriX64``Erik, try the bibel :)
16:55.29IriX64ValarQ: like make ;)
16:55.35IriX64bible too.
16:56.33IriX64my vucom1 is on the fritz :)
16:57.41AbsTradELicappear
16:58.03AbsTradELic2 window pop up
16:58.20AbsTradELiccommand window and graphic window
17:01.52AbsTradELicok
17:02.08clock_AbsTradELic: wget http://ronja.twibright.com/3d/railing.g
17:02.11clock_AbsTradELic: mged railing.g
17:02.15clock_in mged type B railing
17:02.25clock_(without the word type)
17:02.57clock_AbsTradELic: you should see an image of some engineering crap
17:03.21brlcadheh :)
17:03.25AbsTradELicok
17:03.35AbsTradELicjust a few
17:03.35clock_brlcad: if I type rt the whole screen blanks for a while and then it returns and nothing is raytraced
17:03.46clock_brlcad: I have OpenBSD 3.9
17:03.59brlcadthere are also a lot of simple example geometry databases installed in /usr/brlcad/share/brlcad/7.8.0/db/
17:04.19brlcadclock_: hmm.. X11 display depth bug
17:04.28brlcadclock_:  try "rt -F/dev/Xl" instead
17:04.29clock_brlcad: bug of X or brlcad?
17:04.36brlcadboth
17:05.13brlcadand that's ex-ell, not ex-one
17:05.14clock_brlcad: lol works
17:05.25AbsTradELicclock_: ops, problem... I dont see nothing
17:05.40clock_AbsTradELic: not eve wire frame?
17:05.51AbsTradELicnothing
17:05.53clock_AbsTradELic: do you have file railing.g?
17:05.54brlcadso, something wrong with the opengl interface on your system..  it's not a new problem, saw it years ago but haven't seen it since to debug it
17:06.04AbsTradELicclock_: yes
17:06.16clock_AbsTradELic: and you typed B railing in mged?
17:06.36AbsTradELicmged railling.g
17:06.45clock_AbsTradELic: but in mged you have to type B railing
17:06.47clock_that draws the thing
17:07.02AbsTradELichuM!
17:07.04brlcadB is the "delete everything else and draw" command
17:07.11brlcade is the simple draw command
17:07.12AbsTradELicjust a few
17:07.33brlcadthere's also a draw command (equivalent to e)
17:07.46clock_brlcad: yes but I am a lamer so I don't know that
17:08.02brlcad"tops" will tell you what top-level geometry are in the file hierarchy that are likely of interest
17:08.22brlcadsince brl-cad's .g files are not necessarily 1-model per file
17:08.27AbsTradELicclock_: Now I see
17:08.31AbsTradELicI'm seeing
17:08.34clock_AbsTradELic: so you have working brlcad
17:08.46AbsTradELicclock_: ;)
17:08.51AbsTradELicok
17:09.00brlcadAbsTradELic: this may be of help: http://ftp.brlcad.org/MGED_Quick_Reference_Card.pdf
17:10.02clock_brlcad: oh that's terrific who made it? He should get a Nobel Prize for a Reference Card
17:10.02AbsTradELicok... downloading
17:10.24AbsTradELicdownload completed
17:10.40brlcadclock_: second page, at the bottom
17:11.01brlcadtechnically, back of the first page, it's meant to be printed on heavy glossy stock paper
17:11.07brlcaddouble-sided
17:11.30brlcadthere's also http://ftp.brlcad.org/MGED_Quick_Reference_Trifold_Card.pdf  for folks that want to fold it up
17:11.30``Erikbrlcad: mged interface wise, should I be looking at 'pipe'? or is there a better one to look at?
17:11.47brlcad``Erik: pipe's probably a good one
17:12.18brlcadespecially given it's variable arguments too
17:12.45``Erikthat's exactly what I'm looking for... jason said bot's don't have ui interface, and sketch is horrible, so pipe is the best for that feature...
17:12.58``Erikso'z I'm seein' if that's right or if there's a better one :)
17:13.04brlcadprobably not
17:13.14brlcadi mean, probably not a better one ..
17:13.26``Erikok, now for the dangerous question... are there docs on pipe? :D
17:13.48brlcadyeah, pipe is covered in the advanced tutorial (vol III iirc)
17:14.19brlcadotherwise, rtfs ;)
17:14.26clock_brlcad: actually I think I already once asked about a screw, didn't I?
17:14.55brlcadclock_: i believe you did, though the details pass me
17:15.13clock_brlcad: me too, unfortunately ;-)
17:15.15brlcadi think it was a curvature on curvature problem, which isn't easily done
17:15.36brlcadunless you mean threading on a non-tapering bolt.. that's somewhat tractable
17:15.40clock_you said something about half toroids or something like that
17:15.48clock_yes non tapering
17:16.25brlcadyeah, pattern tool would certainly help
17:16.35AbsTradELicto render it ?
17:16.35brlcada linear repeat up a cylinder
17:17.02brlcadAbsTradELic: File->Raytrace Control Panel or simply type "rt -F/dev/Xl" in the command window
17:18.27brlcad``Erik: dwayne is a demigod when it comes to using pipes if you want some really useful interactive face-time
17:18.58brlcadpretty efficient with them
17:19.04``Erikjust need a rough idea of the interface... but if I'm stuck goin' 'huhh?', I'll wander over
17:19.54clock_O.o
17:19.57brlcadi'd worry about getting the typein interface done first .. that will at least get you going
17:21.07AbsTradELicok
17:22.41AbsTradELicand the project age ?
17:23.19clock_AbsTradELic: 25+
17:23.32clock_AbsTradELic: developed by US Army
17:24.01AbsTradELic25 years ?
17:24.09clock_yes
17:24.13clock_brlcad: how much is it actually?
17:24.19``Erik'79, yo
17:25.07``Erikhttp://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Brlcad
17:25.08AbsTradELicand the source opened ?
17:25.40``Eriklate '04
17:27.47brlcadproject started in '79, first release was circa '83/'84
17:28.04brlcadopen-sourced on the day before christmas eve, 2004
17:28.15clock_brlcad: xmas gift?
17:28.27brlcadof sorts :)
17:28.35clock_brlcad: that's brutal to opensource such a huge thing :)
17:29.00brlcadit took years of finagling, meetings, discussions, legalities, technicalities
17:29.13brlcadalmost five years actually
17:29.23clock_brlcad: working with BRL-CAD that's a great feeling compared to all those other modeller things
17:30.03brlcadit's a great codebase, even if the mged modeler is not so great
17:30.21clock_like if a surfer was given duke kahanamoku's board :)
17:30.26brlcadoh, i'm not identified..
17:30.41brlcaddamn splits
17:31.42AbsTradELicbrlcad work fine with arquiteture projects ?
17:31.43clock_brlcad: big codebase that doesn't bloat the system
17:31.54brlcadAbsTradELic: sure should
17:32.25AbsTradELicconstruction architeture projects ?
17:32.37brlcadclock_: yeah.. that's one thing, there's a definite lack of code bloat even for it's massive size .. maybe a hint of command-bloat, but there was generally a need for all of them
17:33.08clock_brlcad: I don't have problem with the commands
17:33.23brlcadAbsTradELic: it has been used in several architecture projects in the past .. though one thing it does not do that's worth mentioning in advance is drafting
17:33.39brlcadi.e. you're not going to get dimensioned blue-prints out of it - wasn't designed for that
17:33.55brlcadclock_: have you used more than mged and rt? :)
17:33.58brlcadand rtedge..
17:34.04ValarQthats the biggest drawback
17:34.36clock_brlcad: yes, rtweight
17:34.44brlcadyeah, everyone sees cad and expects autocad, not realizing that's just one of about five major niche markets (although drafting is the biggest)
17:34.57brlcadclock_: so .. only 396 to go ;)
17:35.01ValarQis it possible to store ortographic views in brlcad?
17:35.26brlcadyou can save/load arbitrary views using the saveview/loadview commands
17:35.42ValarQis it stored in the database then?
17:35.54brlcadthose can be stashed into the .g file, but there's no formality for getting mged to recognize them there yet
17:36.03brlcadnormally they are simply stashed in outboard files
17:36.06ValarQmged isn't important
17:36.33brlcadbut *any* file can be stashed into the .g as an object (binunif)
17:36.52ValarQoh, ok
17:36.55clock_brlcad: I think it would be OK if brlcad could export the lines from given orthographics projection like DXF
17:37.04clock_one could add the dimensions himself in a CAD
17:37.26ValarQwould be nice to have dimensions stored under the view and having rtedge ploting them
17:37.40``Erikwow, that is one horrible interface o.O :D
17:37.41archivistclock_ not poductive that way
17:37.43brlcadclock_: yes, it seems to be the requested feature of this year
17:37.54archivistproductive
17:38.50brlcadit wouldn't be hard (read more than a couple months effort) at all to add a 2D overlay primitive similar to the sketch object for representing annotations, dimensions, and lines, etc
17:39.22brlcadthe problem is more a gui then for creating/manipulating those features, and if they're dimensions -- a means to compute them and keep them up to date preferably
17:40.16ValarQbrlcad: shouldn't they also be dependent on a view to be placed or plotted?
17:40.45brlcadthere are uses for both dependant and independant
17:40.56ValarQbrlcad: otherwise it could be tricky to know where the dimension really are
17:41.06brlcadthough independant is actually quite harder (staying fixed to the projection they're being looked at from)
17:42.06brlcadValarQ: as long as perspective mode is turned off, it's fairly easy to compute -- you can take a view-aligned bounding box's width for example
17:42.47ValarQbrlcad: isn't that the wrong way to measure?
17:42.50archivisthmm dimensions should not be affected by view
17:43.16brlcadthe difficulty in general of commputing *any* of the dimensions, though is that it requires evaluation of the implicit form (expensive) or seamless transition to an explicit form (e.g. brep nurbs)
17:43.28ValarQwell, in my head they should be affected by a view, but only one view, one that doesn't change
17:43.38brlcadValarQ: not if it's a tight-fit and you're dimensioning orthogonal
17:44.01brlcadit really depends what it is that you are trying to dimension
17:44.35brlcadfor some random subpiece of a subassembly, no that wouldn't work so well if you couldn't specify the whole subassembly/combination
17:44.36ValarQhow should you store the dimension?
17:45.25brlcadas a dimension object type in the database (the 2D overlay primitive I referred to)
17:45.55brlcadcan have attributes tying it to the original, constraints attributes for optionally keeping it up to date, etc
17:46.03archivistshould they be atached to the skect primatives
17:46.12archivistsketch
17:46.12ValarQyeah
17:46.27ValarQhave you used the sketch function in pro/engineer?
17:46.47archivistIm a solidworks person
17:46.55brlcadsketch primitive would not be my first choice, simply because they require shape closure, have a defined 2D inside and outside
17:47.11brlcadi have used sketch in pro/e, though it was a couple years back now
17:47.47brlcadit could certainly be an attribute of a sketch, though, or reference a sketch if it were an object itself
17:48.06brlcadmind you i'm talking about the implementation, not whatever the user interface chose to present it as
17:48.35ValarQbrlcad: me too
17:48.37brlcadthe user interface could very well "show" a dimension tied to a sketch object.. that's regardless
17:49.46archivisttied to or driving
18:05.57``Erikoh, neat, mged -c is 'more awesomer'
18:08.55clock_is there man mged?
18:12.14``Erikclock_: yes, add /usr/brlcad/man to your MANPATH
18:16.00clock_``Erik: I think the brlcad didn't say that at the end.
18:26.31``Erikpipe_in... eck
19:05.04``ErikI must be hungry, I'm gettin' dizzy :/
19:19.10``Eriksean, why does pipeseg have a magic value defined and no field for magic?
19:19.21``Erikwdb.h:120
19:21.11CIA-9BRL-CAD: 03erikgreenwald * 10brlcad/include/ (rtgeom.h wdb.h): store metaball control points in a bu_list of structs instead of an array of homogenous vectors
19:32.34CIA-9BRL-CAD: 03erikgreenwald * 10brlcad/src/mged/typein.c: Initial metaball parser (heavily based on pipes) and minor cleanup.
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20:54.53AbsTradELichi
20:55.43ValarQhiya
21:06.38AbsTradELicI'll come back
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21:18.31AbsTradELicok
21:22.05AbsTradELichi all !
21:23.29AbsTradELicto have a compreensive view of project, I need something informations
Jeff Waugh - find it at freshmeat.net! Modified by Tim Riker to work with blootbot logs, split per channel, etc. irclog2html for #brlcad on 20060715

irclog2html for #brlcad on 20060715

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00:35.12CIA-9BRL-CAD: 03erikgreenwald * 10brlcad/src/mged/typein.c: fixed a minor issue with the metaball interactive prompt
01:49.37brlcad``Erik: that structure is a list element -- part of how libbu does list structures is by embedding the list structure as the first element as utilizing aliasing
01:50.07brlcadin this case, bu_list structures have a magic, which is what wdb_pipept is using since it's a list element
01:50.58brlcadand not a isolated structure in the case of the rt_pipe_internal (which has it's own magic as the first element more visibly)
01:57.12brlcadnote that the bu_list trick is only used on actual list node elements, not structs that reference some list as is seen elsewhere
02:03.07``Erikohyeah... fergot about that, I knew bu_list had bu_prev and bu_next and did ugly off-sized struct casting
02:03.44``Erikfergot they stored magic, too
02:03.53``Erikerm, forw and back, rather
02:12.28brlcadyeah, it's a great C hack that just causes compiler's too much grief :)
02:12.43brlcadC polymorphism
02:13.25brlcadi though about trying to unwide it in brl-cad too so aliasing could be removed.. but that really would be an utterly massive effort
02:18.22``Erikindeed... heh, I was talking to jason this morning about it
02:18.39``Erikthat plus the heavy macro usage in like vmath makes something like swig... intractable
02:19.34brlcadhrm?  what does vmath have to do with swig?
02:20.17``Erikvmath has lots of macros...
02:20.26``Erikin order to expose something to swig, it has to be a function, not a macro
02:20.38``Erikso all that crap in vmath.h cannot be exposed to the scripting language :)
02:21.18brlcadvmath is entirely macros
02:22.04brlcadthere are (or at least were) actually functional equivalents of most of the macros in vmath in libbn
02:22.13``Erikayup... that's why jason brought it up as the representative problem file... the issue is with macros, not functions... :)
02:22.27brlcadthey were just refactored away due to a very clear performance boost
02:23.10brlcadeven with compiler inline directives, which sometime's wouldn't, though most of the code preceeds the inline directive by about a decade
02:23.32brlcadvmath is a fairly special case though
02:23.37brlcadnot really representative
02:24.19brlcadthe vast majority of the librt api isn't macros after all .. so what if scripts have to figure out how to add a vector all by themselves
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19:14.18IriX64irssi is too cadillacy for me
19:20.13``Erikso you used ircII, or telnet?
19:25.03IriX64ermmff galactick communicator :)
19:26.25IriX64irssi assumes all cygwin environments are the same :)
19:31.33IriX64heh ``Erik -- both ;)
19:35.33IriX64hate fargin projects that dont honour --prefix properly.
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19:37.04IriX64ahh it works now.
19:37.59IriX64hmph no version reply.
19:41.52IriX64I'm doing all right, getting good grades, futures so bright, i gotta wear shades.
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22:36.58IriX64rubes,dudes,dudettes,and rowdies, how's it?
22:38.14IriX64bb l8r, still having system grief, anybody got a bandaid for my knuckles. :)
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Jeff Waugh - find it at freshmeat.net! Modified by Tim Riker to work with blootbot logs, split per channel, etc. irclog2html for #brlcad on 20060716

irclog2html for #brlcad on 20060716

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14:07.23pra5ad./.libs/librt.so: undefined reference to `bn_mat_inverse'
14:08.05clock_bn_camping_mat_inverse?
14:43.31``Eriklibrt not seeing libbn? O.o
14:50.01clock_O.o
15:28.49pra5aderror from make
15:28.58pra5adjust co'd cvs head
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21:01.14pra5adquack
Jeff Waugh - find it at freshmeat.net! Modified by Tim Riker to work with blootbot logs, split per channel, etc. irclog2html for #brlcad on 20060717

irclog2html for #brlcad on 20060717

00:48.22*** join/#brlcad DTRemenak (n=DTRemena@c-24-23-59-104.hsd1.ca.comcast.net)
02:19.17brlcadbinaries out of date, refresh build and make from start (clean up)
02:56.36pra5adrefresh build?
02:56.48pra5adthat was make from a fresh CO
02:57.22pra5adbut trying make after clean
03:44.28brlcadhmm, could also be side effect of running from improper install or picking up old libs from previous install or LD_LIBRARY_FLAG is set, etc
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08:07.03CIA-9BRL-CAD: 03d_rossberg * 10brlcad/misc/win32-msvc/Dll/brlcad.dsp: do not use precompiled header files
08:08.02CIA-9BRL-CAD: 03d_rossberg * 10brlcad/src/libbn/libbn.dsp: do not use precompiled header files
08:09.26CIA-9BRL-CAD: 03d_rossberg * 10brlcad/src/libbu/libbu.dsp: do not use precompiled header files, - memset.c, + mread.c
08:11.48CIA-9BRL-CAD: 03d_rossberg * 10brlcad/src/librt/librt.dsp: do not use precompiled header files, + g_metaball.c
08:13.07CIA-9BRL-CAD: 03d_rossberg * 10brlcad/src/libsysv/libsysv.dsp: do not use precompiled header files, - getopt.c
08:14.29CIA-9BRL-CAD: 03d_rossberg * 10brlcad/src/libwdb/libwdb.dsp: do not use precompiled header files
08:20.31CIA-9BRL-CAD: 03d_rossberg * 10brlcad/src/libbu/mread.c: += increments a pointer depending on the size of its basetype but what is the size of void? (MSVC 6.0 error)
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14:15.15CIA-9BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/libbu/xdr.c: ws
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15:50.55CIA-9BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/regress/Makefile.am: clean up after the mged_shaders.log
15:55.35CIA-9BRL-CAD: 03prasad_silva * 10brlcad/ (include/raytrace.h src/librt/db_walk.c): The beginning of a new database traversal framework.
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16:20.03``Erikme cocks his head
16:20.07``Erik/ even
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17:34.54clock_How is it actually with all the sun-exposure hysteria?
17:35.40archivistdamned hot here and we are outside fixing the car ready for the annual test
17:56.33CIA-9BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/ (4 files in 4 dirs): consistently use the .pl extension for plot files, not .plot
18:01.19clock_tofu: do you eat tofu?
18:06.15clock_tofu: are you eating tofu?
18:47.01CIA-9BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/doc/Makefile.am: install the pad_file.xml
18:48.07CIA-9BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/misc/brlcad.spec.in: update the rpm build spec file using more configure autoconf variables instead of in-lining everything. use the right url for downloads too.
18:48.27brlcadi wish
18:53.57CIA-9BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/misc/Makefile.am: simple reorder
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23:01.06*** join/#brlcad traffic_hazard (n=ben@206.80.217.37)
23:01.34traffic_hazardgood afternoon
23:02.10traffic_hazardanyone know of a good source for BRL CAD documentation?
23:02.10brlcadcheers
23:02.30brlcadhttp://brlcad.org has several documents that may be of interest
23:02.46traffic_hazardI'll have to take another look there
23:03.09brlcadin particular, the brief overview, the introduction to mged volume II, the MGED Quick Reference sheet, the Principles of modeling volume III
23:03.23traffic_hazardThank you
23:03.38brlcadthose are a starting point for seeing some of the capabilities and limitations
23:04.01brlcadif you're a dev, there's plenty more documentation for jumping in and getting started with something
23:05.36traffic_hazardThank you much. Those should get me started :-)
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Jeff Waugh - find it at freshmeat.net! Modified by Tim Riker to work with blootbot logs, split per channel, etc. irclog2html for #brlcad on 20060718

irclog2html for #brlcad on 20060718

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20:14.47``Erikho hum
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23:31.16*** topic/#brlcad is http://brlcad.org/ || BRL-CAD is an open source solid modeling software suite || Developers needed! Read the HACKING file for details on getting involved
23:43.39*** join/#brlcad ibot (i=ibot@rikers.org)
23:43.39*** topic/#brlcad is http://brlcad.org/ || BRL-CAD is an open source solid modeling software suite || Developers needed! Read the HACKING file for details on getting involved
Jeff Waugh - find it at freshmeat.net! Modified by Tim Riker to work with blootbot logs, split per channel, etc. irclog2html for #brlcad on 20060719

irclog2html for #brlcad on 20060719

01:48.39*** join/#brlcad DTRemenak (n=DTRemena@c-24-23-59-104.hsd1.ca.comcast.net)
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04:16.15job# nickname Le.S.Eohn
04:16.27fenntry /nick
04:17.01jobsorry, thank's
04:20.32LyonBrlcad currently find Handbook is difficulty think
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04:46.01jobHi,all to wake up
04:50.03jobwho ,to supply can me brlcad handbook's
04:55.52jobhi,brlcad you are is uplink's ?
04:58.16jobbye
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13:12.06``Erikheh
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15:05.49``Erika/nop
15:45.49CIA-9BRL-CAD: 03erikgreenwald * 10brlcad/src/librt/table.c: point to the v5 export/import, not v4...
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17:07.37CIA-9BRL-CAD: 03erikgreenwald * 10brlcad/src/mged/typein.c: metaball: minor cleanup, and save threshhold to struct
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18:50.34CIA-9BRL-CAD: 03erikgreenwald * 10brlcad/src/librt/g_metaball.c: v5 import/export implemented. Removed v4 stubs. Made all stubs log.
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19:30.13CIA-9BRL-CAD: 03erikgreenwald * 10brlcad/src/librt/g_metaball.c: minor bugfix, implemented "describe" and "ifree"
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Jeff Waugh - find it at freshmeat.net! Modified by Tim Riker to work with blootbot logs, split per channel, etc. irclog2html for #brlcad on 20060720

irclog2html for #brlcad on 20060720

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10:58.38matt_ezeki_230hi guys... i wonder if there is a way to show hidden lines of a solid model after raytrace with command rtedge -W -s1024 as broken lines
11:15.49brlcadmatt_ezeki_230: it'd be easy enough to show the hidden lines.. though rendering to a particular style of "broken" or dashed lines would probably be tricky
11:17.21brlcadprobably doable as a probabalistic speckled line (e.g. randomly don't draw N% of the hidden line pixels)
11:17.39brlcadnot as nice as hard dashes, but would probably get the point across
11:31.27matt_ezeki_230brlcad: ok thanks... could i ask to you which command in command window or option need i to set to show hidden raytraced lines as speckled lines?
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13:38.04matt_ezeki_230i tried your method but i was still unable to show hidden lines as speckled lines. Let my explain the issue with an exemple:
13:38.17matt_ezeki_2301) in a.s rcc 0 0 -2 0 0 4 1
13:38.21matt_ezeki_2302) in b.s rcc 0 -2 0 0 4 0 1
13:38.25matt_ezeki_230and i need to show hidden lines of the both cylinders after raytracing.
13:38.34matt_ezeki_230Because file "http://ftp.brlcad.org/MGED_Quick_Reference_Trifold_Card.pdf" says "raytrace white background hidden-line image -> rtedge -W -o file.pix", i wonder if i've understood properly:
13:38.50matt_ezeki_230hidden lines can be showed as speckled lines or hard dashes lines with the ONLY following command
13:38.54matt_ezeki_2303) rtedge -W -s1024 -o file.pix
13:39.00matt_ezeki_230?
13:44.20clock_matt_ezeki_230: can you show hidden lines with rtedge?
13:45.34matt_ezeki_230no i can't. i'm here just to know if is it possible with rtedge or other ways...
13:46.48matt_ezeki_230brlcad says "it'd be easy enough to show the hidden lines...probably doable as a probabalistic speckled line (e.g. randomly don't draw N% of the hidden line pixels)..."
13:47.24matt_ezeki_230but i have any idea to do his method
14:08.32brlcadmatt_ezeki_230: I said it would be "doable" to implement/add such a feature to rtedge, not that it exists right now
14:08.58brlcadwhat you can do with it now is do a multi-pass composite
14:10.19clock_brlcad: or make a multipass and make the invisible edges with a grey shade
14:10.33clock_brlcad: how do you do multipass? Make another view from the other side and then mirror it?
14:10.39brlcadeither overlaying the wireframe image (which shows the hidden lines) with an rtedge raytrace
14:10.46brlcador using two rtedge passes
14:12.08brlcadclock_: doesn't have to be from the other side, rtedge understands a bunch of options that make it show more/fewer edges
14:12.27clock_brlcad: cool
14:12.37clock_--show-more-edges --show-even-more-edges :)
14:12.48clock_--i-said-i-want-more-edges!
14:13.02brlcadfor example, matt_ezeki_230, you might want to try the "detect regions" flag that will draw hidden edges on region boundaries if you've correctly created parts/assemblies (i.e. regions and groups)
14:13.07brlcadclose :)
14:13.16brlcad-c"set detect_regions=1" ;)
14:13.20clock_brlcad: today I am going into the surf course again :)
14:16.02brlcadalso has -c"set overlaymode=1" for multipass rtedgings, but I suspect the best way will be to save the mged wireframe to an image and composite it over
14:16.29brlcadclock_: cool, where abouts?
14:16.46clock_brlcad: I don't understand now what you mean
14:17.11brlcadwhere are you surfing?
14:18.33clock_brlcad: on Zurich lake. But there are no waves. Only paddling training
14:18.39clock_brlcad: do you swim front crawl?
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14:35.24brlcadclock_: not sure what that means
14:35.30brlcadhello rossberg!
14:36.18brlcadrossberg: you were quite a topic of discussion recently ..
14:36.49rossbergbrlcad: really?
14:37.05brlcadyeah, at the annual STMG and MEVA meetings
14:37.53brlcadsome discussion on your windows brl-cad geometry viewer
14:38.11rossbergah, there was a meeting. interesting
14:38.19brlcadand on a bunker model
14:38.32brlcadyeah, every year
14:38.35rossbergin september there will a meeting at the iabg
14:39.27rossbergthe bunker isn't from me (the model), but i made colculations with it
14:39.45clock_brlcad: I mean you lie on the face and paddle with your hands and you swim this way. The fastest swimming style known.
14:41.39*** mode/#brlcad [+o brlcad] by ChanServ
14:42.36brlcadclock_: how else would you do it??
14:44.44clock_brlcad: :)
14:45.02clock_brlcad: for example breastroke
14:57.15brlcadwith a surfboard?? :)
14:57.55clock_brlcad: no just with the body, swimming
15:01.23brlcadahh
15:01.38brlcadusually freestyle or backstroke
15:22.13matt_ezeki_230brlcad: thanks for your answers. Unfortunately i'm a beginner user of brlcad and i've any idea of what a multi-pass composite is. Furthermore i've found anything about detect regions flag and -c"set detect_regions=1" command in MGED_Quick_Ref, VolumeII... and VolumeIII... docs
15:24.15matt_ezeki_230Please, could you give me an example of use to create parts/assemblies correctly using "detect regions" flag? thanks in advance
16:27.04matt_ezeki_230are you still here ? :-)
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23:00.20``Eriksean, ya busy?
23:05.30brlcadalways
23:08.13``Erikgot a librt question if you're in the mood
23:09.10``Erikgot 'prep' and something in the shot func, but when I pull the trigger, shoot.c throws an oops, the ray origin is 'bad', with big honkin' numbers (like Xe40)... what'd I fuck up?
23:10.03brlcadyou have to set up the ray in the app structure before you first
23:10.07brlcads/first/fire/
23:10.21``Erikhm, I'm not doing an app, this is bin/rt
23:10.33brlcadlook at src/rt/rtexample.c as a reference, notice how it sets:
23:10.33brlcad<PROTECTED>
23:10.33brlcad<PROTECTED>
23:10.53brlcadwhat do you mean then that you "pull the trigger"?
23:11.18``Erikwell, I got a .g file with a toplevel metaball called "ball" and I run /usr/brlcad/bin/rt /tmp/poo.g ball
23:11.19brlcadthe shot routine eventually gets passed that a_ray at some point
23:11.39brlcadat lease the shot routine gets a ray from somewhere, and it has to be "valid"
23:11.46``ErikALL I've done to the file is "title metaballs" "units mm" "in ball metaball (lots of numbers)"
23:11.54brlcadahhh
23:12.21brlcadshot func sounds screwed up
23:12.39``Erikmine? all mine does at the moment is a bu_log ... which does NOT display
23:13.18``Erikare you in tomorrow?
23:13.20brlcadand returns 1?
23:13.27``Erikum, returns 0 I believe
23:13.31brlcadhmm
23:13.59``Erikbut since it never prints the bu_log string, I assume the return value is irrelevant
23:14.14brlcadahh, it doesn't get that far?
23:14.18``Eriknewp
23:14.51``Erikif you're in office tomorrow, I'll show you the code and output... I'm still trying to get my feet under me wrt brlcad source... :)
23:15.09brlcadthen it's got to be prep work
23:15.15brlcadi'm in for half-day
23:15.19brlcadso good luck..
23:15.27``Erikall I do in prep is set a couple bounding spheres...
23:15.38brlcadyeah, have to set the bounding spheres and the bounding boxes
23:15.44``Erikoh, the box as well?
23:15.45brlcadit "should" all be soltab stuff
23:15.51brlcadyeah, has to set min/max
23:15.52``Erikthe, um, max/min or the later one?
23:16.03brlcadst_min[X/Y/Z] and st_max
23:16.10``Erikokie, I'll hack something into that and see if I can get my shot function to kick...
23:16.26``Eriktomorrie... now it's time to cook and drink and watch tv, w00t
23:16.28``Erikthanks :)
23:17.38brlcadshould set st_center, st_aradius, st_bradius, st_specific, st_min, and st_max
23:20.07``Erikok, I only did the first three... what's st_specific?
23:20.12``Erikmin/max being aabb coords?
23:20.59``Erikis st_specific the bu_list for 'render ready' crap?
23:25.00brlcadst_specific isn't probably necessary, but that'd be your in-memory prep'd data holding things like precomputed values that are useful for any ray
23:25.29brlcadit's basically a void * to whatever the hell you want
23:25.56brlcadand yeah, min/max are the aabb
23:26.41brlcadthat's probably what it's crappingg on, it's probably some inf or inverted box or random vals, so when it translates a ray to the start or other side, it goes whack
23:27.36``Erikokie
23:27.54``Erikat the moment, I'm not sure I see anything that can effectively be precomputed
23:28.16``Erikso I'll leave that one blank, do the aabb, see if I can't get a trivial 'walking' ray...
23:28.35``ErikI may be harrassin' ya next tuesday... :)
23:29.05``Erik(sorry, a few yrs ago, I woulda been all about chugging this out over the weekend, but I'm broken and embittered given my previous... assignment...)
23:32.53brlcadsad sad .. :)
23:33.04brlcadthat's sweet code to poke on
23:34.44brlcadi think i enjoy working on primitives more than most of the rest of the codebase.. it's nice and fundamental, math intensive, and you get to see pretty stuff when it all finally works
23:35.02brlcadthe boolean weaver is fun too, but you don't get that visual
23:44.21``Erik*shrug* I showed up, wrote a build system, fixed geoffs lserver, and was slammed into muves3
23:44.32``ErikI didn't really get the opportunity to learn much about brlcad
Jeff Waugh - find it at freshmeat.net! Modified by Tim Riker to work with blootbot logs, split per channel, etc. irclog2html for #brlcad on 20060721

irclog2html for #brlcad on 20060721

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03:15.29pra5adah forgot to forward the response from john hable (of csg on gpus fame)
03:16.18brlcadwell, skip to it
03:16.36pra5adill do it tomorrow
03:16.40pra5adzzzzz
03:16.45brlcadwuss
03:16.46brlcad:)
03:18.13brlcadhave to get up in 4 hours only to then row for 2 hours followed by a half hour bike ride
03:28.01idaydepends on your point of view
03:28.19idayyou better be getting to sleep then
11:39.01CIA-8BRL-CAD: 03d_rossberg * 10brlcad/include/raytrace.h: Always compile the fastgen4 import stuff. (bob1961)
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14:06.50``Eriko.O
14:08.04``Eriksean, the st_min/st_max fixed it... thanks
14:09.02brlcadnp
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16:41.34*** topic/#brlcad by irc.freenode.net -> http://brlcad.org/ || BRL-CAD is an open source solid modeling software suite || Developers needed! Read the HACKING file for details on getting involved
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Jeff Waugh - find it at freshmeat.net! Modified by Tim Riker to work with blootbot logs, split per channel, etc. irclog2html for #brlcad on 20060722

irclog2html for #brlcad on 20060722

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03:31.32IriX643 days later... and im still reconstructing my system.
03:33.14IriX64sorry man had no idea.
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16:17.01ValarQIriX64: crashed raid array?
16:17.44IriX64entire cliuster ;)
16:18.05IriX64BRL-CAD Release 10.0.0, Build 20060722
16:18.05IriX64<PROTECTED>
16:18.05IriX64<PROTECTED>
16:18.05IriX64Configuration files: /usr/linuxbrlcad/etc
16:18.06IriX64<PROTECTED>
16:18.08IriX64CC       = gcc
16:18.10IriX64CFLAGS   =   -pipe -fno-strict-aliasing -fno-common -O3
16:18.13IriX64CPPFLAGS = -I/usr/X11R6/include -I$(top_srcdir)/include
16:18.15IriX64LDFLAGS  = -L/usr/X11R6/lib -L/usr/local/lib -pipe -fno-strict-aliasing -fno-com
16:18.18IriX64mon -O3
16:18.20IriX64LIBS     =
16:18.23IriX64Build Tcl ............................: yes
16:18.25IriX64Build Tk .............................: yes
16:18.28IriX64Build Itcl/Itk .......................: yes
16:18.30IriX64Build IWidgets .......................: yes
16:18.33IriX64Build BLT ............................: yes
16:18.35IriX64Build tkImg ..........................: yes
16:18.38IriX64Build libpng .........................: yes
16:18.40IriX64Build libregex .......................: yes
16:18.43IriX64Build zlib ...........................: yes
16:18.45IriX64Build termlib ........................: yes
16:18.49IriX64so you know im working on something :)
16:19.56IriX64want to see the rest of it?
16:20.15IriX64have to wait a bit its installing now.
16:21.52ValarQwhats with all the pasting?
16:22.04IriX64i cant type fast.
16:22.24IriX64and i want you to know im not a geek.
16:22.29fennwe dont really need to see your compile logs
16:22.44IriX64thats just the summary.
16:22.49fennover and over again
16:22.51IriX64of configure.
16:23.07IriX64ill refrain from further pasting.
16:24.02fennthank you
16:24.13IriX64your welcome.
16:25.10IriX64can't wait to see mged again, ive missed her :)
16:29.19IriX64you offer --prefix= but your code expects /usr/brlcad, why ?
16:31.26``Erikif you use --prefix, it expects the prefix you gave it... if you don't, it defaults to /usr/brlcad/
16:32.49IriX64i used --prefix=/usr/linuxbrlcad it installed but mged complained on startup.
16:33.09``Erikwere you running the right mged?
16:33.10IriX64so i renamed the directory brlcad and it came up.
16:33.20IriX64theres only one mged
16:33.28``Erikdid you have old build files sitting around?
16:33.29IriX64the one in bin.
16:33.34IriX64no
16:34.18IriX64hey want my shot summary of havoc :)
16:34.54IriX64ermmfff how would i paste it?
16:35.09IriX64may i try, might help me out here.
16:35.29IriX64never mind ill join a dummy channel.
16:37.18IriX64worked
16:42.31IriX6412 fps, not bad.
16:44.24IriX64should send you the plot or postscript file of this, youll crap your pants.
16:46.40IriX64harrmphh, tried to sent it to a plot file and everything shutdown.
16:48.56IriX64havoc.plot whowants it?
16:53.02IriX64havoc.sh too.
16:58.34IriX64source lower right view destination lower left view sweetest picture ive ever seen.
17:00.09IriX64Requesting 16 cpus, only 1 available. Will use 1.
17:00.16IriX64:)
17:01.15IriX64smoke break... work wait, but don't go away :)
17:08.31*** part/#brlcad dan_falck (n=danfalck@pool-71-111-76-8.ptldor.dsl-w.verizon.net)
17:34.54brlcadIriX64: if you have stuff you want to share and it's more than just a couple lines, use pastebin instead of here
17:34.57brlcad~pastebin
17:34.59ibotpastebin is probably a place to paste your stuff without flooding the channel - try http://pastebin.com/ (BROKEN AND SUCKING NUTS), or http://pastebin.ca, or http://channels.debian.net/paste, or for #oe use http://oe.pastebin.com, or http://bzflag.pastebin.ca/
17:35.40brlcadseeing your build options isn't very interesting too, fwiw unless something is broken ..
17:38.57IriX64thankyou.
17:39.11``Erikhttp://paste.lisp.org/ beeyotch
17:39.33IriX64~pastebin
17:39.35ibotwell, pastebin is a place to paste your stuff without flooding the channel - try http://pastebin.com/ (BROKEN AND SUCKING NUTS), or http://pastebin.ca, or http://channels.debian.net/paste, or for #oe use http://oe.pastebin.com, or http://bzflag.pastebin.ca/
17:39.45IriX64whup.
17:42.05``Erikthis place sure does look different when it's clean O.o
17:45.35IriX64i'll pay money for the tank with slat armor database, (I'll also pay money for the key to Ms. Aprils .g file but thats another issue) :)
17:46.16brlcad~pastebin is also http://paste.lisp.org/ for the lisp/scheme nuts
17:46.19ibotbrlcad: okay
17:49.37IriX64captive audience.
17:50.31brlcadnot for long if you keep doing it :)
17:50.54IriX64heh i know.
17:54.03IriX64too much like work, i'm basically a lazy slob.:)
17:57.07brlcadso lazily look at them :)
17:57.17brlcadnobody makes you, do it for fun
17:57.24brlcador for recognition
17:57.33brlcador for no reason at all ;)
17:59.55IriX64you neglect to add but farking well do it. :)
18:01.11IriX64can you send .jpg files to that pastebin?
18:03.36IriX64shot on pastebin.com have a look.
18:04.00IriX64never mind blahhhhhh.
18:05.24IriX64ill send you a jpeg of my screen when im finished building it and bring it up for test.
18:05.42IriX64right now tho smoke break.
18:07.22b0efbrlcad: yup, inkscape supports offset curves
18:07.58b0efbrlcad: too bad it's only bezier; so when I change one part of the curve, the rest of the curve is affected;)
18:21.56IriX64unilateral
18:23.50IriX64hey b0ef... libtoolize it ;)
18:25.04brlcadb0ef: ahh, yeah they can be a pain for curve editing.. having to add all the extra control points to keep the other parts from moving much
18:59.34clock_``Erik: what do you do for the chicks?
19:01.30``Erikbrlcad tracker stuff
19:44.35IriX64would u let me send one of you a .jpg?
19:44.40IriX64you
19:45.08IriX64the chicks name is havoc.
19:48.44``Erik... I've seen the mi28 an awful lot over the last few years. You're not going to show me anything I'm not completely bored with seeing.
19:49.35IriX64its a shot of my desktop rendering havoc and doing a few other things.
19:49.46``Eriktell the truth, I really don't care...
19:49.48``Eriksorry
19:49.53IriX64ahh well.
19:50.11``Erik<-- busy doing the home improvement thing o.O
19:50.35IriX64i like my home home just the way it is ... sloppy.
19:52.22IriX64brb reboot is indicated (Tell the truth, you probably don't care :))
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20:05.31IriX64IriX64@hagarsfi-f038a0 ~/brlcad-10.0.0
20:05.31IriX64$ aclocal
20:05.31IriX64/usr/share/aclocal/pkg.m4:5: warning: underquoted definition of PKG_CHECK_MODULE
20:05.31IriX64S run info '(automake)Extending aclocal' or see http://sources.redhat.com/automake/automake.html#Extending-aclocal
20:05.34IriX64/usr/share/aclocal/libsmi.m4:8: warning: underquoted definition of AM_PATH_LIBSM
20:05.36IriX64I
20:05.39IriX64/usr/share/aclocal/libmcrypt.m4:17: warning: underquoted definition of AM_PATH_L
20:05.42IriX64IBMCRYPT
20:05.44IriX64/usr/share/aclocal/libgcrypt.m4:23: warning: underquoted definition of AM_PATH_L
20:05.47IriX64IBGCRYPT
20:05.49IriX64/usr/share/aclocal/freetype2.m4:7: warning: underquoted definition of AC_CHECK_F
20:05.52IriX64T2
20:05.54IriX64/usr/share/aclocal/cppunit.m4:4: warning: underquoted definition of AM_PATH_CPPU
20:05.57IriX64NIT
20:05.59IriX64aclocal:configure.ac:2765: warning: macro `AM_PATH_SDL' not found in library
20:06.01IriX64is this normal?
20:09.39``Erikyes, and quit pasting shit here, dude
20:10.33IriX64sorry wont do it again, thought i found something.
20:10.43IriX64next time ill ask.
20:11.08``Erikif it's more than one line, use a paste site and say the url...
20:11.27IriX64thankyou. ill use pstebin.com.
20:11.36IriX64err pastebin.com
20:11.46IriX64hahhaah pestbin.com ;)
20:12.05``Erik(some of us leave for hours, then come back and read the backscroll... pasted shit makes it a lot harder for us)
20:12.22IriX64true lack of thought on my part.
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21:44.58CIA-9BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/autogen.sh: detect a recursive configure, it's not really properly supported yet.. but if the problem is glibtool, we should be able to continue through a restart with LIBTOOLIZE set
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22:27.47CIA-9BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/misc/win32-msvc7/librt/librt.vcproj: no longer need to define IMPORT_FASTGEN4_SECTION
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Jeff Waugh - find it at freshmeat.net! Modified by Tim Riker to work with blootbot logs, split per channel, etc. irclog2html for #brlcad on 20060723

irclog2html for #brlcad on 20060723

00:23.12*** join/#brlcad ibot_ (i=ibot@pdpc/supporter/active/TimRiker/bot/apt)
00:23.12*** topic/#brlcad is http://brlcad.org/ || BRL-CAD is an open source solid modeling software suite || Developers needed! Read the HACKING file for details on getting involved
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01:46.15IriX64mmmm would you be interested in the source to that linuxbrlcad.zip i sent to ftp.brlcad.org a while back?
01:47.46IriX64ill take that as a yes, you're free to delete it if it doesn't pass muster.
01:49.01brlcadthe source?
01:49.06brlcadwhy, did you change the sources?
01:49.15IriX64eh?
01:49.35brlcadwhy would I want the source to linuxbrlcad.zip?
01:49.51IriX64to go along with the bibaries.
01:50.03brlcadbut I mean did you actually modify the sources?
01:50.27brlcadpresumably you obtained the sourcecode from cvs or from a source distribution
01:50.47brlcadso if you didn't modify the sources.... why would I need/want them?
01:51.08IriX64do the binaries not have stuff thats not there in the distribution?
01:51.22IriX64or did you even look at the binaries
01:51.24IriX64?
01:51.28brlcadi looked at the binaries
01:51.36IriX64stock?
01:51.38brlcadyou're avoiding my question though :)
01:51.45brlcaddid you modify the sources?
01:51.57IriX64i hate questions life would be simpler without them.
01:52.03IriX64yes i did.
01:52.32brlcadcare to share what and why? anything significant?
01:52.45brlcadif it's useful, i'd integrate it into cvs
01:52.55IriX64geometry browser has been enhanced
01:53.08brlcadI'm not going to go goose hunting for mysterious changes though :)
01:53.17brlcadenhanced?
01:53.44IriX64just compile the code.
01:54.35brlcadyou enjoy being difficult and obscure, or is it just a hobby? :)
01:54.47IriX64both ;)
01:56.37IriX64smoke break.
02:30.46IriX64ah well client troubles, maybe another time.
02:32.12IriX64rhubarb anyone? :)
02:32.29IriX64this client isn't equipped for that though.
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02:41.31IriX64_mention rhubarb one time ... my system goes to war on me.
02:43.21IriX64_man wheres the status screen on irssi?
02:44.23IriX64_ill be back.
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02:47.03IriX64clients should be all the same :)
02:50.00IriX64sugar or salt?
02:51.03brlcadit's like rhubarb pie, but with a sugary crunchy topping in a baking dish
02:53.25IriX64thought you meant a stick of rhubarb lightly sprinkled.
02:57.35IriX64IriX64@hagarsfi-f038a0 ~/brlcad-10.0.0
02:57.35IriX64$ ./configure --enable-almost-everything --with-x --enable-math --enable-optimi
02:57.35IriX64zations --disable-shared --build=i586-unix-freebsd
02:58.09IriX64did i miss any options?
03:02.55IriX64cleverly programmed into each build cycle is a looooong smoke break :)
03:02.58brlcad--with-x is the default
03:03.36IriX64thank you wasn't sure thought i looked in configure --help and saw it wasn't or something.
03:03.46IriX64or read it wrong.
03:28.39CIA-9BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/autogen.sh: (log message trimmed)
03:28.39CIA-9BRL-CAD: yet another fairly massive rewrite, this time mostly just restructuring. keep
03:28.39CIA-9BRL-CAD: track of the basename for better output messages and refactor the initialization
03:28.39CIA-9BRL-CAD: steps into a function. also refactor the libtool failure check into a function
03:28.39CIA-9BRL-CAD: while we're at it as well. all steps towards being able to cleanly handle
03:28.40CIA-9BRL-CAD: manual build steps of projects using recursive configure. oh, and this change
03:28.42CIA-9BRL-CAD: removes the directory change to the autogen.sh script, so it must once again be
04:16.08CIA-9BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/autogen.sh: allow external overrides on HELP, QUIET, VERBOSE, and VERSION_ONLY. document the settable project defaults
04:29.20CIA-9BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/autogen.sh: utilize the RUN_RECURSIVE define so that we don't recurse more than once during autogening
05:34.16CIA-9BRL-CAD: 03johnranderson * 10brlcad/src/tclscripts/mged/mike-tux.ppm: The file in the cvs repository was corrupted. Sean, be careful when using scripts to update all files :-)
05:34.47brlcadoops
05:37.25brlcadahh, some lines actually end with a color that equaled a space/tab char
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07:19.25CIA-9BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/autogen.sh: add a manual_autogen function that runs the manual configuration steps. this makes it possible to add support for manual recursive configure build support.
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08:56.18``Erikhah
08:58.11``Erik(dare I 'orange' mike-tux.ppm to get ride of those two revisions?)
13:40.38brlcadnah
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15:01.09CIA-9BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/NEWS: speling
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15:34.04*** mode/#brlcad [+o ChanServ] by irc.freenode.net
16:16.19CIA-9BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/autogen.sh: allow environment variable overrides on AUTORECONF, AUTOCONF, AUTOMAKE, LIBTOOLIZE, ACLOCAL, AUTOHEADER. fix --help so it works again (need to rewrite so it's not just a configure pass-through)
17:50.30*** join/#brlcad matt_ezeki_230 (n=matt@host117-24.pool8710.interbusiness.it)
17:50.39matt_ezeki_230hello guys...
17:53.26brlcadhello
17:59.08matt_ezeki_230brlcad: hi, do you remember an our 3-4 days ago chat? We talked about to show a solid inside an other solid as broken line and you suggested me to use direct region flag...
17:59.35brlcadas a potential direction
18:00.05brlcadalong with maybe merging the mged wireframe with a rendered version
18:02.09matt_ezeki_230yes, show potential direction as broken line after a raytrace
18:02.53matt_ezeki_230I tried to find any example of use of direct region flag
18:03.06matt_ezeki_230but without success
18:03.39matt_ezeki_230and neither a definition of direct region flag in MGED_Quick_Ref, VolumeII...
18:03.45matt_ezeki_230VolumeIII.. etc...
18:04.10matt_ezeki_230would you be so kind as to give me a simple example of use?
18:05.09brlcadit's in the manpage
18:05.13brlcadfor rtedge
18:06.14brlcadsomewhat obscure detail to be putting into introductory training docs ;)
18:33.03matt_ezeki_230ok... I think i'm near at hand the solution! I gave the command rtedge -W -s850 -c"set dr=1" but it returns the following error:
18:33.48matt_ezeki_230rt_do_cmd("set): command not found
18:36.03matt_ezeki_230BRL-CAD Release 7.8.2 .....
18:38.01matt_ezeki_230/usr/brlcad/bin/rtedge -M -W -s850 -c"set
18:38.15matt_ezeki_230opendb dr=1";
18:38.53matt_ezeki_230rt: rt_dirbuild(dr=1") failure
18:39.02matt_ezeki_230any suggestion??
19:05.46brlcadrun it on the command line, not inside mged
19:06.01brlcadotherwise you get into tclsh issues and how to go about escaping options, etc
19:15.22matt_ezeki_230ok...but something was wrong...
19:15.27matt_ezeki_230i gave
19:15.35matt_ezeki_230in mged:
19:15.48matt_ezeki_2301) in a.s rcc 0 0 -2 0 0 4 1
19:16.00matt_ezeki_2302) in b.s rcc 0 -2 0 0 4 0 1
19:16.10matt_ezeki_2303) r reg.r u a.s u b.s
19:16.19matt_ezeki_230in command line:
19:17.03matt_ezeki_230/usr/brlcad/bin/rtedge -W -s850 -c"set dr=1" test.g reg.r >test.pix
19:17.21brlcadrtedge doesn't send to stdout
19:17.27brlcadrtedge -o test.pix
19:18.03matt_ezeki_230really? I obtained a correct graphic with both cylinders...
19:18.12brlcador rtedge -F/dev/Xl -o test.pix -W -s850 -c"set dr=1" test.g reg.r   in order to both see it in a window and render to file
19:20.25matt_ezeki_230ok the graphic is raytraced but there are any broken lines in cylinders intersection....
19:20.45matt_ezeki_230neither using -c"set dr=1"...
19:24.45brlcadthe "broken lines" are likely related to the default curvature tolerance
19:24.56brlcadyou'll have to tweak that as they are the same region
19:25.13brlcadso you're only using curvature information to draw the edge
19:33.02CIA-9BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/AUTHORS: bowers middle is anthony, so sayeth the rtedge manpage
19:38.56brlcadahh, I see what you mean by the "broken lines".. it's because those two cynlinders begin to merge there within the edge/curvature tolerance so it's no longer considered an edge
19:39.25brlcadthat doesn't seem to be a configurable tolerance either, it's on or off (e.g. dn=0)
19:41.09brlcadi could make that configurable if you really would like that feature .. depends if it's significant as edges such as those are questionably still edges
19:41.55brlcade.g. you'll never really get the X to come fully together as the point at which they meet is very much a smooth crossing
20:11.52CIA-9BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/autogen.sh:
20:11.52CIA-9BRL-CAD: woot, this little "script" is in excess of 1000 lines... in celebration, finally
20:11.52CIA-9BRL-CAD: break tradition with other autogen.sh convention by adding a more useful --help
20:11.52CIA-9BRL-CAD: option instead of passing it on to configure. also add support to override any
20:11.52CIA-9BRL-CAD: of the command (autoreconf, automake, etc) options via a set of _OPTIONS
20:11.54CIA-9BRL-CAD: environment variables.
21:00.48*** join/#brlcad digitalfredy (n=digitalf@200.71.62.161)
21:13.41*** join/#brlcad lg_ (n=lg_@mstr195175-16578.dial-in.ttnet.net.tr)
21:13.54lg_hi...
21:14.25brlcadhowdy
21:15.03lg_finally got into the irc-channel... just a real brlcad-noob, however ;-)
21:15.32brlcadwelcome, lots of noobs abound ;)
21:16.04lg_anyone among those who ever tried brlcad's mged on a mac?
21:16.24brlcadplenty do, it's one of the primary dev platforms
21:17.16lg_hm, than i must have done something really stupid - i could not find out how to navigate, e.g. zoom in and out, using keyboard shortcuts...
21:17.34lg_thought it was an exotic platform for brlcad
21:19.00lg_and without this kind of usability, it is even hard to try out ;-)
21:19.47brlcadthe mged modeler in brl-cad wasn't designed to be "discoverable", that's likely a large portion of your difficulties with it
21:20.22lg_;-) but i suppose there is a way to navigate with keyboard / shortcuts, right?
21:22.14brlcadyes and no
21:22.38brlcadthe command line is clearly key oriented and *everything* you can do with the gui can be done without the gui interface
21:23.04brlcaddid you see the shiftgrips and mged quick reference on the website?
21:23.24brlcadthe introduction to mged tutorial on there is also pretty good for getting walked through the basics
21:23.40brlcadtakes just a couple hours to get through the whole series if you're diligent
21:25.22lg_ok. i have mged with a model opened, and the geometry browser says there are three objects, one spere and a cylinder among those. i am in the graphics window, and the view menu claims that 'I' and 'O' should zoom in and out. Do I have to press the Apple-Key, the Ctrl-Key or anything together, or what does it mean? I simply don't see an effect. I also do not know how to move to an initial view showing all objects, if I do not know their posi
21:25.44lg_;-) I know the pdf-documentation, it is pretty well done
21:30.53lg_i think my entry level problems are even too basic to be solved with the documentation - I do not know how to control the gui even
21:32.03brlcadmged's graphical is not the greatest ;)  the command line is a fair bit more powerful
21:32.13brlcadthere's work on-going on a new graphical interface (two projects actually)
21:34.19lg_i heard about it. but don't misunderstand me, i like editing by the command line. it is just necessary to have some viewer app, e.g. to explore geometry imported from other applications. right now, i see a black mged graphics window with one bright pixel in the middle, and entering the shortcuts simply shows no effect. that is my current problem ;-) still, is there some information about the new guis available now?
21:34.51lg_and, by the way, did anyone bind to the brlcad-libs from c++?
21:35.49brlcadahh, you found a bug
21:36.22brlcadI and O were zoom in/out but the command that they bound to no longer exists
21:36.22lg_no, that cannot be true, it's a bug? after all my new grey hair now???
21:36.37matt_ezeki_230brlcad: maybe I posed you a too much trivial case...or too much particular issue. If you agree I could send to you 3 files: 2 database and an "instruction files" so you can see what I need to do...
21:37.18brlcadmatt_ezeki_230: sure
21:37.23lg_i was convinced to be the most stupid brlcad-beginner in the universe (or at least the ip4-address-space)
21:37.30brlcadheh
21:39.05lg_so what is the new way to navigate a scene / model now, if the commands where removed? or have they been removed accidentally?
21:41.42brlcadthere's generally five different ways to get something done
21:42.26brlcade.g. zoom command on the command line, first and third mouse buttons
21:42.53lg_hey, one would even be sufficient... imagine me, sitting in front of mged, the geometry got imported, is shown in the geometry browser, and I cannot manage to see it
21:43.09lg_ok, lets try that
21:43.39brlcadif you just want to see it, double click it in the geometry browser ;)
21:43.47brlcadright-click in browser gives a menu
21:44.19brlcade or draw command will display geometry, tops command shows the top-level hierarchy
21:44.36lg_it's there!
21:45.00lg_the double-clicked showed it.
21:45.04brlcadthese commands are all in the mged quick reference and are covered by the tutorials ;)
21:45.16brlcad(cept the browser isn't covered)
21:45.39lg_i am on a mac (laptop), using a one-button mouse. so i am used to use CTRL-left to emulate the right mouse button, what seams not to work in mged!
21:45.41brlcadit's effectively "experimental" as there are a couple known limitations (in particular for one-button mouse systems)
21:46.26brlcadcmd-click will display the menu on os x
21:46.48brlcadmove over the menu item and then hit return instead of clicking
21:47.08brlcadand yes, that's very clunky..
21:47.23brlcadI'd suggest learning the command line first unless you have a keyboard aversion
21:47.41brlcadthat interface will carry over to both of the new modelers too
21:48.13lg_ahem...yes, keeping the cmd-key and the mouse pressed, moving at the same time to the menu item and pressing enter, i think two people are needed to operate that on my mac ;-)
21:49.36lg_the new modelers could insist on keeping the eyes closed while performing these artistic operations ;-)
21:50.10brlcadthey'll certainly be more discoverable sans documentation at least :)
21:52.06lg_ok, now, after the first success, i got some motivation. don't take me wrong, I went through the doc, but i really had some problems because some basic functionality seamed not to work. and i started with an imported model, as that is where i am right now, i am considering to use brlcad on existing model data. so, even if i should have done so, i think it is not surprising that i first went through the modeling exercises.
21:52.37brlcadby the way.. if you happen to be hitting keys and the model starts spinning on you.. hit 0 ;)
21:52.47brlcadthat's caused by xyzXYZ bindings
21:53.09lg_beautyful
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21:53.59matt_ezeki_230brlcad: i'm trying to send you the 3 files..
21:54.04brlcadsimilarly (f)ront, (l)eft back right top bottom, and (3)5/25 az/el view
21:55.00brlcadmatt_ezeki_230: thanks.. hadn't noticed..
21:55.06lg_by the way, the geometry i imported from formz by iges arrived like a charm, great. still, as far as i understood, brlcad is moving to step niw, right?
21:55.43matt_ezeki_230thanks to you for your help
21:55.54matt_ezeki_230brlcad: thanks to you for your help
21:57.51lg_ok, i think i will play a while now ;-)
21:59.00brlcadlg_: as far as mouse gui bindings for os x, shift+ctrl+mouse is zoom, shift+option+mouse is translate, ctrl+option+mouse is rotate
21:59.19brlcadsome more details on those in the shift-grips guide
22:00.00lg_ah, one more question (the answer may be hidden in the docs, but i could not fing it so far), not for the gui. can i use wildcards to operate on many objects, that are not grouped? as mentioned, i have existing geometry imported.
22:00.09brlcadlg_: some work on a step importer was started though it is currently stalled effort as the lead dev that was working on it is off on something else right now
22:00.35brlcadwe do have the step specs though, and an updated version of the nist express parser
22:01.40lg_that's a pity, as the iges importer seams to support only rather old iges4. while, as menitioned, the geometry is fine, i could not use e.g. blocks (or references or instances or symbols or however it is called)
22:01.46brlcadlg_: yes you can -- the mged command line has two evaluation modes -- the default is like a command shell with globbing operators eg ls *.r  ; the other is tcl evaluation which is a lot more involved to explain if you don't know the Tcl language
22:02.10lg_yes, i know a bit about the story, i am on the free-architecture mailing list, and the step issue had been discusses
22:02.12brlcadyeah, it would be nice if someone worked on updating the iges converter too
22:02.25brlcadlimited resources and time of course..
22:02.48lg_ok, no surprise if you are working on the gui and frontend stuff
22:03.05brlcadyeah, that's the most "hurting" imho
22:03.51brlcadwe can hook in all existing importers and exporters and still be worlds better than most other projects even with the limited functionality and limitations on some of them
22:04.13brlcadbut it's hard to avoid the old mged gui at the moment
22:04.22brlcadpeople expect/want something radically different
22:04.33brlcadmost at least
22:04.37lg_yes, but that is bound to specific applications
22:04.49brlcadvery much so
22:05.59brlcadthe follow up modeller addresses that problem with plugin profiles so you can have things like a gui with terminology changes specific to domains (e.g. CADD, CAE, CAM, CAA, etc)
22:07.31lg_i dream of something like small, nice tools to create high-level objects for architecture, a manager app that creates geometry from these and sends them to brlcad, a viewer showing them with librt, tracing view rays to find objects when the user hits a mouse button to implement snap, tracing back from the object to the again small app that generated the high level object that initiated its creation... nice design for an architectural cad sy
22:08.29brlcadinitial focus will likely be towards generic CAD integrating all of our existing functionality for geometry management, image manipulation, importers, exporters, renderers, etc
22:09.04brlcadthen move on towards whatever the community demands most (which at this point seems to be CADD, CAM, and CAA in probably that order)
22:09.16lg_ok, a generic 3d cad would be an outstanding project right now
22:10.01brlcadwe have all the implementation pretty much done, the brl-cad libraries provide 80-90% of what is needed already implementation-wise
22:10.10brlcadwhat's missing is a gui ennvironment to wrap it all up in
22:10.24lg_my interest is in architectural cad, and that requires a level above the geometry. that does not mean that generic cad cannot be used for architecture, it is another way to work.
22:10.40lg_yes, the gui is a key issue to get these things accepted
22:11.14brlcadsure, architecture (CAA) is very closely related to CADD needs.. drafting diagrams, constraints, parametrics, rendered plans, etc
22:11.46brlcadlot more focus on 2D than you generally see in solid modeling leveraging extrusions more, sketches, etc
22:12.24lg_yes, but for caad you need some kind of intelligence in the objects. i do not like the 2d approach too much, i want an useable 3d model to extract information from
22:13.24lg_what i mean by intelligence is that a window belongs to a wall, that a corner of a wall is constructed by well-known rules depending on material etc, and that the actual geometry is the result of these
22:14.37lg_small generator applications could handle that very well, and i would feed the brlcad not directly by user input, but by a library of objects that the user generates
22:15.12bjorkBSDwindow belongs to a wall ...
22:15.16bjorkBSDor ANYTHING which would hold it.
22:15.21bjorkBSDdoor ...
22:15.23bjorkBSDroof.
22:15.44bjorkBSDfloor? (wtf?!)
22:16.21bjorkBSDbut idiomatically (note linguistic metaphor)
22:16.25bjorkBSDit belongs in a wall.
22:17.04lg_yes, but the object should "know" this. it can still be flexible, but for architecture, it makes a lot of sense that placing a window in another object implies that an opening is cut into that object, and, if the object is moved, the window changes its position, too (some kind of parent-child-hierarchie here).
22:17.05bjorkBSD... and if you're a certain company in redmond, windows belong everywhere :D
22:17.29lg_than it belongs under the earth...
22:17.30bjorkBSDi thought that was the whole point of CSG
22:17.37brlcadthose are constraints and hierarchical geometry views in a generic sense, also being thought about.. how I could say, for example, that I want to create a "typical" brick-mortar 2-level house
22:18.06brlcadwhere i'd only specify dimensions, numbers of windows, doors, etc .. extreme example given the size/complexity but gives the idea
22:19.32brlcadsimilar smaller scale might be that I want a nut and bolt, and I'd just specify the length, threadsize, etc and the model would retain that knowledge and the underlying connections (e.g. all the primitives or splines or whatever used to make the threads unioned to a cylinder, etc)
22:19.33lg_yes, it should still be allowed to influence and manipulate, but, for example, the bricks are only available in some certain sizes, that defined usual openings, all kinds of dimensions, construction details. it is a whole layer over the actual csg stuff happening
22:20.42bjorkBSDlg have you ever used catia by any chance?
22:21.23lg_no, i think it is close to what i want
22:22.56bjorkBSDfork up the dough :D
22:23.08bjorkBSDor **** it and tell us what it's like.
22:23.16bjorkBSD<PROTECTED>
22:24.23lg_bjorkbsd, are you from a archicture-related field?
22:24.57lg_i ask because i am curious about people using this kind of apps in architecture. most caad is much more primitive imho
22:26.29brlcadinvest dozens of thousands into catia and company or invest that money/time/interest by contributing to an open source CAD project ;)
22:27.29lg_i would prefer the second, while it is hard for someone who is not really good in writing code (i am actually an architect)
22:28.02bjorkBSDnot at all, lg_
22:28.10bjorkBSDi'm from a "wow this is COOOL" field.
22:28.37brlcadif that's not brl-cad, so be it, but it's a shame that so many are willing to dump so much money and time into commercial packages when there's clearly enough interest and talent to get something together
22:29.00bjorkBSDi'm especially interested in the interface.
22:29.13lg_still i try to contribute by collecting information, promoting the idea etc. just set up a website to allow people to share their ideas on it (free-architecture.org).
22:29.16brlcadall I know is that we're a couple decades of development ahead of the other open source "competition" and we still have a couple decades of dev-time catch-up to go
22:29.21bjorkBSDbut curse the paucity of coding skills!
22:29.51lg_bjorkbsd, what is wowsocool?
22:30.03brlcadlg_: it's all appreciated ;)  actually your architectural expertise alone is enough to warrant respect and be useful
22:30.28brlcadno single project can cross domains without having consistent participation from the major CAD domains
22:31.37bjorkBSDlg_ modeling mechanical components and watching mechanisms come to life until i can afford to create them.
22:32.00brlcadright now the biggest void is a lack of developer involvement, though documentation, tutorials, and advertising (website, release notes, news, conferences) take up a huge amount of time too
22:32.22lg_i think if the brlcad people continue work on a really robust csg engine, it is the best they can do, as there are few implementations i know about. still, i would love to see some coordinated effort to allow to chain all these tools to form something more complete and useable. and take e.g. the load of developing viewers and guis from those working on the engin
22:32.56lg_bjorkBSD, ok, mechanics, I guess your are closer to the typical brlcad user profile than me than ;-)
22:34.08matt_ezeki_230brlcad: now i go away (to sleep because here in Italy it is 12:34 A.M. :-) ). If would you be so kind as to try the code in file README....you have my e-mail (file README again) but i'll be back here tomorrow. Bye and thanks a lot for your help!
22:34.21brlcadlg_: brl-cad's CSG engine and raytrace engines is actually one of the oldest and best around -- better than just about every commercial iplementation as well from a robustness and performance perspective
22:34.41bjorkBSDcomparable to catia? :O
22:34.46lg_hey, matt_ezeki, good night, here in istanbul it's already 1.34 will be hard tomorrow morning
22:34.59brlcadlg_: you're right though.. a coordinated effort is desparately needed and leveraging existing functionality
22:35.11brlcadbjorkBSD: actually yes
22:35.15bjorkBSD<PROTECTED>
22:35.22bjorkBSDthen we have a gold mine on our hands :-?
22:35.39matt_ezeki_230lg_: he he ! yes, will be hard :-)
22:35.41brlcadbrl-cad libraries were designed with large-models and performance in mind, primary focus has always been on analysis purposes
22:36.24brlcadwhere it very much lacks is in the modeling interface side
22:36.29bjorkBSDhow did you become involved with brl-cad, brlcad ?
22:36.54brlcadand support for brep/nurbs primitives.. that's one weak area in the engine
22:38.05lg_i have been so fed up with the fact that all the csg-engined I used in architecture led to geometry that was not suitable for any other editing after some booleans. so i appreciate a csg engine ;-)
22:38.08brlcadbjorkBSD: anyone can become involved.. I became involved many years ago working under Mike Muuss (BRL-CAD's original architect)
22:38.51brlcadlg_: are you familiar with where brl-cad comes from and what it is/was designed for?
22:38.53lg_brlcad, seams that you have been in the development for a while?
22:39.24brlcadabout 7 or so years now, lead developer
22:39.47lg_brlcad, yes, i think that is why its powerful, it is to create models for analysis, while many modelers and cad i used where for visualization or limited complexity
22:40.20brlcadi was behind the pressure to make it an open source project, took several years and lots of effort .. to say the least
22:40.55lg_can imagine it was hard to make this move with an established project like brlcad
22:42.22lg_i follow the development of radiance, which was also open-sourced some years ago, after maybe 20 years of development, also controlled by governmental (and other) institutions. still, it is great that these things happened finally, so we can send a thank you know, because we can play around with all these nice toys ;-)
22:43.07brlcadyeah, radiance is pretty cool .. some of the brl-cad devs used to work with them way back when
22:43.57bjorkBSDhmmm.
22:44.39brlcaddifference there being radiance was somewhat lingering/abandoned so it was open source, whereas brl-cad continues to be actively used and developed but was open sourced to "give back" and spark expanded collaboration/development/etc
22:46.34brlcadi've toyed with the idea of writing a radiance-compatible interface to brl-cad for a while myself.. or even implementing a new tracer based on brl-cad's raytrace library
22:46.54brlcadinfinitely doable, very cool stuff
22:47.16lg_well, i do not know the internals of radiance development over the time, but there is a lot of development around it, many projects forked, and  a lot of commercial applications (most of the serious ones) are based on it. the problem is that is seams to be hard for new devs to join the core dev team
22:47.18brlcadhard to stay focused on the modeler :)
22:47.36bjorkBSDbrlcad, i can read C to some extent, but when you move this stuff to c++ ...
22:47.40bjorkBSDthat'll be the end for me :(
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22:48.26brlcadbjorkBSD: the core will likely always remain C .. most of the initial 300+ plugins are all C
22:48.32lg_yes, but i think an even cooler interface would be to the more general simulation environment esp-r, than i could use the solid model to do all kinds of thermal simulation, too, and still use the interface from esp-r to radiance ;-)
22:49.03brlcadbjorkBSD: it's only the higher level logic that will be C++ and even that will be utilizing the C layers :)
22:49.40brlcadlg_: that's the problem with CAD development in general.. it spans so many genre's it's hard to stay focused on just a few concepts and do them well :)
22:49.57bjorkBSD<PROTECTED>
22:50.13lg_that is nice, it means i will see some examples how to call the brlcad libs from c++ ( i know a bit c++)
22:50.42brlcadthat's why the focus is on a "platform" for plugin-based development so it becomes more manageable to have isolated groups focus on their genre of expertise/interest
22:51.26lg_but, for the radiance interface, you would have to mesh all the geometry, as radiance supports no csg at all. and than you can also use the great (new) wavefront-obj support in radiance, so g2obj is all we need right now
22:52.09brlcadsomething akin to eclipse for CAD mixed with a game, physics, and render engines :)
22:52.43lg_i am really curious about what you are doing there. will it be open-source, too, and can we lurk to the dev code soon? ;-9
22:52.46brlcadlg_: we do the geometry meshing now for a variety of purposes.. half the exporters are mesh-only
22:53.24brlcadthe ADRT interface that was added to brl-cad a year or so ago is a high-performance triangle-only engine as well
22:53.31lg_cad-eclipse, i know a lot of people who dream about this idea (even if it may be sick to dream of cad)
22:53.50brlcadtwing created an interactive triangle-only raytracer and path tracer based around it
22:54.23brlcadthat's what made things like http://ftp.brlcad.org/images/stryker_slat.png possible
22:55.17brlcadsticking CAD into Eclipse is just wrong .. there are fundamental lessons that can be learned from their project though
22:56.11lg_brlcad, for radiance, obj is great, the only point where a special exporter would make sense are primitives like spheres, cylinders etc which are supported better then meshing them. but in real models, these primitives are rare. cad in eclipse is nonsense, but the idea of a development framework with plug-ins is great
22:57.08lg_still loading the image, i am working on 56k-modem-speed right now :-(
22:57.52brlcadcorrect me if i'm wrong but radiance is both an interface for rendering as well as a rendering system itself.  it shouldn't be that much work to implement the radiance interface (so data files, procedural textures, geometry, etc work unmodified)
22:58.26brlcador even hook in the radiance renderer into some CAD system as a plugin ala how blender has various rendering methods exposed
22:59.03brlcadlg_: eek.. 56k?!  didn't know people still use those..  :)
22:59.52lg_should be possible, the core of radiance is available as a library. i am not sure how easy it is to use the different ways radiance optimizes rendering, as the octree-sorting etc.
23:00.23lg_there is even a clean and new c++-rewrite, that allows to access all functionality plus some extras from c++
23:00.43brlcadi'd bet adrt outperforms radiance for full global illumination rendering
23:01.27lg_(yes, i still don't have a dsl line, cause the phone is registred on the owner of my flat, so i have to wait until she is doing all the paper work. so long i enjoy the good-old-times internet feeling)
23:03.01lg_(the radiance-rewrite is called radzilla, the author is Carsten Bauer, a physician and always open to good ideas, more info on http://www.cb-d.de/radzilla.html, if you want to spend your spare time ;-)
23:03.02brlcadadrt was implemented based off of recent interactive raytracing research, some of the techniques presented at siggraph over the past 3 years or so only
23:03.28lg_ok, got the image, you render this interactively?
23:04.23brlcadno no.. that was a full light transport simulation
23:04.57brlcadtook several days, 8 trillion rays, many million per second
23:05.16lg_ok, and the problem was the number of triangles?
23:06.01brlcadsaarbricken?  not sure I've heard of them
23:06.28lg_saarbrucken (u-umlaut, in germany)
23:07.07brlcadwe (used in the singular sense of the dev that collaborated with them on ideas) worked with saarland .. names escaping me at the moment
23:07.46lg_yes, saarland is the state, saarbrucken the "capital"
23:07.58lg_http://www.openrt.de/
23:08.03brlcadyeah, that's them
23:08.18lg_they have some nice projects, i think
23:08.19brlcadslusalek
23:08.29brlcadwe interacted with them pretty extensively
23:09.14lg_did not know that. i never met, found out by a friend and followed a bit what they developed. now they seam to try making some money
23:09.28brlcadadrt actually outperforms for some geometries (non-hardware implementation)
23:09.41brlcadyeah, they are focused on selling the library
23:10.00brlcadadrt is effectively an open source free version developed by "someone else" ;)
23:10.51lg_;-) i have rendered quite large scenes in radiance by using instances, which allows gigantic geometry by sharing memory. but it is certainly not the renderer for those in need of speed.
23:10.59lg_will have a look at adrt
23:11.02brlcadbasically, an implementation of a lot of ingo wald's research
23:11.38brlcadadrt's deficiencies are in it's polish, user interface is barely existant .. if you can't code, it's not really useable without a lot of hand-holding
23:12.33lg_i have an awful model, we are rendering on a 4node cluster for two months now to get 20 pctures 1600x1200. maybe adrt might be something if we ever try to get animations.
23:12.38brlcadbrl-cad's librt also has an implementation of shirley's photon mapping, but that is a tricky beast for solid models ..
23:13.27lg_ok, that is a field unknown to me, an optic effect that never (?) appears in architectural scales
23:13.30brlcadadrt has a layer called isst (interactive shot selection tool) that is used for realtime raytracing of very large detailed models (full vehicles)
23:13.47brlcadthat obtains about 20-30fps on a 4 node cluster
23:13.55lg_(while i am not sure if this is really true when i think of a dome covered by specular material)
23:14.52lg_the model i am talking about is a model of the whole interior of the hagia sophia, with a resolution down to 1x1 cm
23:15.25brlcada volumetric geometry?
23:15.36brlcador it is also facetized?
23:15.58lg_we cannot process it in any cad, we hold a directory tree of geometry files and assemble the model only during the rendering. i once converted it to a vrml and got a 3GB file...
23:16.22lg_it is not volumetric, it is for radiance, only triangles and polygons
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23:16.54brlcad3GB isn't that large for us, especially if that's the vrml
23:17.33brlcadthat should easily fit in core
23:17.39lg_the most of the geometry is held in obj and dxf files. i could not browse it at least, for interactive navigation
23:17.59lg_i should try it?
23:18.11brlcadoh i believe you.. most CAD systems fall apart on large models :)
23:18.53brlcadat least when trying to bring it all up, that's where we generally do much much better assuming the model will at least fit in memory
23:19.06lg_what kind of input interface could i use? if i have to access it from an own application, what language bindings do exist, what geometry formats are already supported? got curious
23:19.46brlcaddepends if you'd want to view it with adrt or librt .. the latter has much more tool support, adrt is going to be much faster for triangles
23:20.12lg_most cad systems i know have some kind of magic limit for geomety size / memory ;-)
23:20.19brlcadthere isn't an obj importer (only an exporter) though.. so some processing would be needed
23:20.46lg_the idea was to have adtr for setting up a way to animate the whole scene
23:20.48brlcadwould be trivial to add one, just nobody has needed it yet
23:20.59lg_(which is impossible in radiance now)
23:21.07bjorkBSDbrlcad, were you the one who mentioned a playstation/xbox keypad interface?
23:21.13lg_what is supported?
23:21.30brlcadonce it's in brl-cad's .g format, getting it to adrt is pretty trivial -- otherwise a direct dump to adrt format is possible as well (it's pretty simple raw format)
23:21.45lg_don't tell me you are running brlcad on a playstation? ;-)
23:21.55lg_ok, i can get it into brl-cad format
23:22.02brlcadbjorkBSD: i'm not sure.. doesn't sound familiary
23:22.27brlcadlg_: do you have brl-cad installed now?
23:22.33bjorkBSDeh. a video games interface, basically.
23:22.47bjorkBSDwhere all you have is the control pad for interacting with it.
23:23.04brlcadlg_: if you do, ls -la /usr/brlcad/bin/*-g are the importers
23:23.22lg_bjorkBSD, i am wondering if a psp3 will be my next linux installation;-) brlcad, yes of course, i am playing with it, i tested the iges-interface so far
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23:23.34brlcadg-* are the exporters as well as asc2g and g2asc for the ascii intermediate format
23:24.50brlcadmost common importers probably being iges, vrml, dxf, off, ply, and stl
23:25.10brlcadthere is a binary export plugin for Pro/Engineer if you happen to have that
23:25.31lg_yes, i would have liked an obj importer, but iges is nice as i can export natively from the modelers
23:25.41lg_i have most of the model in formz
23:25.43brlcadand a Unigraphics exporter as well, though I haven't compiled that in ages
23:26.09lg_eh, does the vrml-importer support the old vrml1?
23:26.33brlcadit used to
23:26.35brlcad:)
23:27.10lg_hm, there is no vrml-g or anything similar
23:27.11brlcadit was updated to vrml 2.0 several years ago without retaining backwards support (don't ask me why..)
23:27.31brlcadahh, that's right.. i mean the exporter
23:27.57bjorkBSDlogo anyone?
23:28.02brlcadvrml is one of the other bastard few importers that hadn't been written yet
23:28.13lg_than maybe the reason was to get rid of all the vrml-1 related support questions.
23:28.13bjorkBSDrepeat 4 [fd 100  left 90] :D
23:28.16lg_logo?
23:28.19brlcadtrivial format, just one more of those things that someone could spend a week or two on
23:28.43brlcaddon't generally get CAD solid models in vrml format :)
23:28.47bjorkBSDANCIENT lisp dialect and turtle geometry platform
23:29.04lg_yes, i remember, bjork...
23:29.06lg_;-)
23:29.12bjorkBSDfun stuff aye?
23:29.53lg_ok folks, i think my boss will kick me out of the office tomorrow when he finds me sleeping there
23:30.00brlcadheh
23:30.09lg_it is half past three (in the morning) here!
23:30.11brlcadlg_: good talking to you, hope to see you around more often ;)
23:30.17brlcadwhere abouts is here?
23:30.22bjorkBSDturkey!
23:30.38lg_certainly, you have been great help. i am in istanbul, turkey
23:30.40brlcad~tr
23:30.42ibotturkish is #turklug, or #debian.tr, or trke yardm iin #debian.tr
23:30.48brlcadso it is
23:30.58bjorkBSD~ibot
23:31.07bjorkBSDoh fine don't talk to me [-(
23:31.11bjorkBSD~ibot_
23:31.12ibotwell, ibot_ is not me
23:31.18lg_yes, in fact i am german, but i am living here
23:31.26brlcadlg_: aha
23:31.32lg_so good night / morning!
23:31.35brlcadciao!
23:31.43brlcad~x en de good night!
23:31.47bjorkBSDis ibot a bot?
23:31.56lg_;-)
23:31.57bjorkBSD<PROTECTED>
23:32.02lg_multilingual bot...
23:32.21bjorkBSD~brl-cad
23:32.22ibotit has been said that brl-cad is a powerful constructive solid geometry solid modeling system that includes an interactive geometry editor, ray tracing support for rendering and geometric analysis, network distributed framebuffer support, image and signal-processing tools.
23:32.27lg_we say iyi aksamlar here, by the way
23:32.30bjorkBSD<PROTECTED>
23:32.58brlcadlg_: is that turkish?
23:33.02lg_yes
23:33.32lg_at least it should be, i am still learning ;-) and it is difficult in irc because all the special characters disappear
23:33.38brlcadbueno, pues.. iyi aksamlar ;)
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23:34.03lg_great, cu, and thanks for help and nice talk
23:34.08lg_lars
23:34.16*** part/#brlcad lg_ (n=lg_@mstr195175-16578.dial-in.ttnet.net.tr)
23:34.47bjorkBSDbrlcad, do you ever use a lightpen or tablet with brlcad?
23:34.59bjorkBSDseems they're very uncommon.
23:36.30brlcadactually just purchased a tablet to test with brl-cad, should be here next week
23:37.16bjorkBSDhow much did it cost?
23:39.07brlcadnot much 100-150 or something
23:40.20bjorkBSDdefinitely not as cheap as a keyboard and mouse :D
23:41.26bjorkBSDthe game industry ... i'd love to take a good look at spore sometime.
23:58.26``Erikneat
23:58.29``Erikwacom?
Jeff Waugh - find it at freshmeat.net! Modified by Tim Riker to work with blootbot logs, split per channel, etc. irclog2html for #brlcad on 20060725

irclog2html for #brlcad on 20060725

21:30.39*** join/#brlcad ibot (i=ibot@pdpc/supporter/active/TimRiker/bot/apt)
21:30.40*** topic/#brlcad is http://brlcad.org/ || BRL-CAD is an open source solid modeling software suite || Developers needed! Read the HACKING file for details on getting involved
22:00.48*** join/#brlcad jscott (n=johnscot@ip10.fa1-0-2.occ.iinet.com)
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22:36.48CIA-9BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/doc/IDEAS: Modify Kaleido to output BRL-CAD geometry ( http://www.math.technion.ac.il/~rl/kaleido/ )
22:38.43fennyikes
22:41.29brlcadyikes?
22:41.42fenni'm trying to imagine some possible use for kaleido
22:41.44brlcadthat'd be a fun simple little project :)
22:42.57brlcadnot all modeling has to be practical.. you can make some pretty beautiful shapes ;)
22:43.19brlcadhttp://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Great_dirhombicosidodecahedron
22:43.53brlcadpretty darn complex geometry if you add all the actual vertices as little spheres and connecting edges and cylinders
22:45.10brlcadbut pretty simple as a union of the basic overlapping shapes
22:46.12fennwould make a cool paper lantern
22:49.00brlcadhttp://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Regular_polytope#Polytopes_in_nature
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23:18.11IriX64voila... BRL-CAD compiled by and running on CYGWIN_NT
23:19.04IriX64let me bring it up again, and you can verify with me that all the bits and pieces are there.
23:20.11IriX64./mged=initializing and backgrounding please wait...
23:20.20IriX64well?
23:20.39IriX64mged command window and graphics window up.
23:22.27IriX64prim.g raytracing.
23:22.34IriX64sweet
23:23.35IriX64nice shape, but will you respect me in the morning? :)
23:23.56IriX64want a paste of the shot?
23:25.15IriX64SHOT: cpu = 9.547 sec, elapsed = 61.606 sec
23:25.15IriX64<PROTECTED>
23:25.15IriX64<PROTECTED>
23:25.15IriX64Additional mem=1462272., #malloc=2740, #free=2682, #realloc=695 (58 retained)
23:25.15IriX644294398 solid/ray intersections: 2900070 hits + 1394328 miss
23:25.15IriX64pruned 67.5%:  0 model RPP, 1686049 dups skipped, 890136 solid RPP
23:25.17IriX64Frame  0:     476100 pixels in      9.55 sec =     49869.07 pixels/sec
23:25.19IriX64Frame  0:    1080471 rays   in      9.55 sec =    113173.88 rays/sec (RTFM)
23:25.21IriX64Frame  0:    1080471 rays   in      9.55 sec =    113173.88 rays/CPU_sec
23:25.23IriX64Frame  0:    1080471 rays   in     61.61 sec =     17538.41 rays/sec (wallclock)
23:25.25IriX64Raytrace complete.
23:25.45IriX64now i'll probably get kicked.
23:27.03IriX64you have this capability in linuxbrlcad.zip and the source to it in brlcad-10.0.0.bz2.... enjoy.
23:27.30IriX64those screenshots are *my system at work.
23:27.50IriX64especially the one rendering havoc.
23:28.06fennyou know we cant see any screenshots right?
23:28.27IriX64i uploaded them to ftp.brlcad.org.
23:28.37IriX64shot?.jpg
23:30.12IriX64back to work on blargh.com :)
23:32.50IriX64i'll be back to torment you with silence later on ;)
Jeff Waugh - find it at freshmeat.net! Modified by Tim Riker to work with blootbot logs, split per channel, etc. irclog2html for #brlcad on 20060726

irclog2html for #brlcad on 20060726

00:30.09brlcadif anyone *really* wants to see what screenshot images he was talking about: http://ftp.brlcad.org/~sean/images/
02:27.36``Erikat least he's using bx instead of mirc...
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03:14.12IriX64bjorkBSD: remember those version numbers? Have you caught up yet? :)
03:57.53bjorkBSDyou're compiling for different platforms?
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15:27.55CIA-9BRL-CAD: 03bob1961 * 10brlcad/src/librt/wdb_obj.c: Minor mods of a few comments.
15:28.03brlcadhmm
15:29.19CIA-9BRL-CAD: 03bob1961 * 10brlcad/src/librt/view_obj.c: Added the viewDir command.
15:34.04CIA-9BRL-CAD: 03erikgreenwald * 10brlcad/src/librt/g_metaball.c: minor shot hack for performance, with a tweaked up "final step", this is about 104x faster on my test case
15:37.03CIA-9BRL-CAD: 03bob1961 * 10brlcad/src/librt/dg_obj.c: Change the conditional from <= to < in a few places to prevent indexing to far.
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15:53.47CIA-9BRL-CAD: 03bob1961 * 10brlcad/src/tclscripts/lib/View.tcl: Add method/wrapper for the viewDir command.
15:55.45CIA-9BRL-CAD: 03bob1961 * 10brlcad/src/tclscripts/lib/QuadDisplay.tcl: Add viewDir method. Add methods to support the scale.
15:57.37CIA-9BRL-CAD: 03bob1961 * 10brlcad/src/tclscripts/lib/ (Dm.tcl Display.tcl): Add support for displaying a scale.
16:00.26CIA-9BRL-CAD: 03bob1961 * 10brlcad/src/tclscripts/helplib.tcl: Add help for the viewDir command.
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16:09.26CIA-9BRL-CAD: 03bob1961 * 10brlcad/src/tclscripts/archer/Archer.tcl: Added support for displaying a scale in the geometry window. Added support for dynamically adding methods to the Archer class.
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16:24.42CIA-9BRL-CAD: 03bob1961 * 10brlcad/src/libdm/dm_obj.c: Add drawScale command.
16:28.29CIA-9BRL-CAD: 03bob1961 * 10brlcad/src/archer/plugins/Makefile.am: Add Command and Utility to SUBDIRS.
16:43.31CIA-9BRL-CAD: 03erikgreenwald * 10brlcad/src/librt/g_metaball.c:
16:43.31CIA-9BRL-CAD: Initial plot impl.
16:43.31CIA-9BRL-CAD: Removed the 16pt stub (use ell's instead).
16:43.32CIA-9BRL-CAD: Minor indentation cleanup.
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17:36.26IriX64Hilarious, my cross-compiler produced a ymp brlcad, now how the hell do I test it. :)
17:36.57brlcadlook for a virtual machine?
17:37.11brlcadthe history of computing project might support them (though I don't recall seeing them)
17:37.26IriX64we've had this discussion, vmware doesn't cut it for that. :)
17:37.42brlcadhmm?
17:37.52brlcadno.. i mean a simulation virtual machine
17:38.17brlcadvmware is only x86 iirc anyways.. you'd need one that emulates cray
17:38.49IriX64simulate unicos?
17:40.17IriX64i'll build a sparc64 build next :)
17:40.17IriX64what os do you recommend? sunos or solaris64?
17:40.53IriX64doubt i'll find any takers, i'm a complete unknown in the industry.
17:42.49``Eriksimh ?
17:43.16IriX64``Erik, i'm restricted to x86.
17:43.36IriX64on what platform?
17:43.58``Erikif you don't have the hardware or emu's to test a 'cross platform build', why bother? you're just cooking time and cpu for something that probably isn't right...
17:44.13``Erikwhy not take a look at the tracker and see if there's something useful you can do?
17:44.18``Erik:)
17:44.21IriX64hah prove it isn't right. :)
17:44.46IriX64sigh i suppose the burden of proof lies with me though.
17:44.55brlcadsimh is pretty cool
17:45.03brlcadbut I don't think they do cray hardware iirc
17:45.15IriX64short description please, ive honestly never heard of it.
17:45.15``ErikI don't remember seeing 'em, but I was after the pdps
17:45.21``Erikheh, lisp 1.5 on a pdp1, awesome :D
17:45.39``Erikirix64: http://simh.trailing-edge.com/
17:45.49IriX64pdp0 :)
17:45.58IriX64thankyou.
17:46.00brlcadi'd love to integrate simh as part of the testing for the benchmark suite numbers
17:46.19``Erikopposed to removing cruft for machines no one uses anymore? :D *duck*
17:46.27brlcadneed to compute sphflake on something that'll give a vgr of 1
17:46.41IriX64btw i can cross to pdp11 or vaxen.
17:46.52``Erikthere's a sysV image for pdp11 on simh's 'extras' page
17:47.05brlcadmore fun to install netbsd
17:47.06``Erik:>
17:47.20``ErikI tried to get it running, but I don't think I was wiring the console right
17:47.28``Erikooh, v6 and v7, too
17:47.51``Erikcp/m? ;)
17:47.54brlcadi got it running, played with it for a couple weeks -- had to change some code to get it to behave though, networking stuff iirc
17:47.55IriX64fine point soldering iron mode engaged ;)
17:48.18IriX64no dont do the z80, its not in config.sub.
17:48.35``Erikmy first machine ran cp/m on a z80 chip.... coleco adam, yo
17:48.56brlcadgetting netbsd in there was quite a feat -- attached the iso as a disk image to simh, dd'd the raw device in simh to get an internal file that I was then able to mount
17:49.12``Erikhah
17:49.21``Erikon which machine?
17:49.25``Erikthe pdp11?
17:49.39IriX64heh mine was called xor.
17:49.50brlcadthe vax iirc
17:49.55IriX64superbrain too i played with.
17:50.22IriX64ohio scientific, man talk about strange.
17:50.44``Erikthere's a pre-existing netbsd for vax, and a 4.3bsd, dude...
17:51.48``Erik<-- kinda surprised plot doesn't have access to soltab info
17:52.11IriX64will this canonicalize --build=sparc64-sun-solaris64 ?
17:52.45``Erikyou probably want --target=, and you have to make sure your CC points to the right cross-compiler...
17:52.59IriX64its automatic.
17:53.22IriX64set build if a xcompiler is detected it wioll be used.
17:53.29IriX64will too.
17:53.50``Erik... as long as the crosscompiler is the first thing in the search list or CC is set to it...
17:54.19IriX64i pasted a config summary here, got my knucles rapped, forget what i was building there though :)
17:54.34IriX64cc is set to cassie.exe man.
17:54.38``Erik$ ./config.guess
17:54.38``Eriksparc-sun-solaris2.8
17:54.51IriX64solaris64
17:55.26IriX64ld is set to cassield.exe :)
17:55.48IriX64hand crafted.
17:55.57``Erikaren't they all?
17:56.16IriX64there now to start makeing it.
17:57.28IriX64and in about an hour i'll have some code to inspect.
17:57.47IriX64hexedit rules :)
17:58.20``Erikod, yo
17:58.48IriX64having a problem with crtsuff.c
17:59.54IriX64multiple definition of __do_sjlj_init but only when i'm building shared libraries, how odd.
18:00.15brlcad``Erik: which "plot"?
18:04.09IriX64haha dire straits - money for nothing.
18:06.02IriX64ValarQ thank you for pointing me to irssi.
18:14.00*** join/#brlcad digitalfredy (n=digitalf@200.71.62.161)
18:20.22``Erikthe librt/g_xxx.c rt_xxx_plot.c func
18:21.00``Erikfor mged wireframe
18:32.46IriX64errr, bjorkBSD, just which build of BRL-CAD are you playing with?
18:40.02IriX64bjorkBSD: shot6.jpg on ftp.brlcad.org to show you why my version number is different than yours. :)
18:41.20IriX64course i just renamed gcc.exe to cassie.exe :)
18:48.50IriX64in geometry browser double click on the name of an object (not the folder icon but the actual name) does an mged e.
18:53.55IriX64shot7.jpg on ftp.brlcad.org shows it in operation.
18:56.00IriX64gotta move my system back downstairs, see youall later.
18:56.20brlcad``Erik: that's because you have to invoke rt_prep() to compute the soltabs.. mged doesn't (currently) prep anything, only the tracers do
19:12.16CIA-9BRL-CAD: 03bob1961 * 10brlcad/src/tclscripts/archer/Archer.tcl: Check-in for Doug. Mods to remember the last directory searcher for a database. Added more menu entries for transparency.
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22:03.54*** join/#brlcad IriX64 (n=mario_du@toronto-HSE-ppp4303304.sympatico.ca)
22:07.04IriX64this is good, but why on earth would anybody need to be on multiple networks at once? Are people built that multi-tasking capable? :)
22:18.16``Eriknetworks as in irc networks?
22:18.34``ErikI'm on 3... this pos, the lame gnome one, and the one true irc net, efnet...
22:25.16fenni am capable of simultaneously filling many networks of IRC chatrooms with mindless drivel
22:25.21IriX64with the same client? :)
22:26.21fennno, my drivel-generating circuitry is powered by a massively parallel multiprocessor core
22:27.20IriX64massivly... and i'm lost ;)
22:28.30fenndo not despair, lowly human
22:29.47IriX64CCR anyone?
22:31.01IriX64Come, CCR = Credence ClearWater Revival. :)
22:33.12IriX64sigh ... am i the only one who likes Opera? ;)
22:35.07IriX64pretensious viloence? Alains... get real.
22:35.32IriX64errr Alanis.
22:37.20IriX64well breaks over, must return to that which I call work and everybody else calls nonsense.
22:38.23IriX64before I go tho, did anybody look at those screen shots?
22:39.47IriX64l8r, not too much l8r but l8r, guys and gals.
23:09.46``Erik... some folk are... special.
23:10.18``Erikhow could anyone NOT know ccr?
23:10.37``ErikI mean, shit, I even play a few of their songs on guitar, and I'm a metal/grunge fucker :)
23:40.08*** join/#brlcad ibot (i=ibot@rikers.org)
23:40.08*** topic/#brlcad is http://brlcad.org/ || BRL-CAD is an open source solid modeling software suite || Developers needed! Read the HACKING file for details on getting involved
Jeff Waugh - find it at freshmeat.net! Modified by Tim Riker to work with blootbot logs, split per channel, etc. irclog2html for #brlcad on 20060727

irclog2html for #brlcad on 20060727

00:36.43*** join/#brlcad fenn (n=fenn@adsl-68-251-149-137.dsl.bltnin.ameritech.net)
01:26.53Twingywhen do you think we will get parallels
01:27.00TwingyI plan to put 5 partitions on mine
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03:45.40IriX64``Erik: finally finished the mod to the Hyper-Transport circuit.
03:46.22IriX64:)
03:47.13IriX64Celine Dionne, Falling into you albumn, don't leave home without it.
04:01.36IriX64mmm should have put fbclear in a different place.
04:03.06IriX64dual code model works.
04:11.51IriX64mooooo ;)
04:51.18IriX64must tend to that hyper transport, ciao
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15:26.14CIA-9BRL-CAD: 03bob1961 * 10brlcad/src/tclscripts/archer/Archer.tcl: Add code for loading Core plugins
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19:28.34IriX64urrrr :)
19:28.44brlcadbrrr
19:29.02IriX64<PROTECTED>
19:29.07IriX64heh :)
19:30.02IriX64needed too
19:36.15IriX64urf... how many networks can irssi handle?
19:39.42brlcadnot limited
19:39.50brlcadas many as you specify
19:45.49IriX64i see that.
19:45.54``Eriknot more than 64k on ipv4, though
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19:47.47IriX6464k !!??!!
19:48.06IriX64who in their right mind  ...  :)
19:59.29CIA-9BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/archer/plugins/Makefile.am: rename the data dir variable from documentation to plugins to reflect usage intent; add Core to the list of traversal dirs
20:02.11CIA-9BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/archer/plugins/ (Command/README Core/README Utility/README): add simple initial README file to describe the intended purpose of this directory (i'm guessing here)
20:09.49CIA-9BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/archer/plugins/ (Utility/Makefile.am Command/Makefile.am Core/Makefile.am): initial Makefile.am file to create this directory as part of the install hierarchy, installing the README as a bit of trivial documentation.
20:25.56CIA-9BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/configure.ac: generate Makefiles for the src/archer/plugins/Commands Core and Utility directories
21:12.17CIA-9BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/archer/Makefile.am: oop, readd Commands, Core, and Utility directories
23:04.27CIA-9BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/archer/Makefile.am: there's the culprit, the files are in plugins, not here..
23:21.52CIA-9BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/archer/plugins/ (4 files in 2 dirs): bah, named the directory incorrectly .. files moved from Command to Commands directory
23:23.41CIA-9BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/archer/plugins/Makefile.am: directory renamed from Command to Commands
Jeff Waugh - find it at freshmeat.net! Modified by Tim Riker to work with blootbot logs, split per channel, etc. irclog2html for #brlcad on 20060728

irclog2html for #brlcad on 20060728

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01:38.37CIA-9BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/doc/description.txt: add a tidbit on some of the humorous incorrect pronounciations that have been overheard as well as an explanation of where the name BRL-CAD comes from
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02:39.15CIA-9BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/tclscripts/archer/ (Archer.tcl pkgIndex.tcl tclIndex): look for commands in the plugin 'Commands' directory instead of 'Command' to be consistent with 'Wizards'
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02:59.53CIA-9BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/tclscripts/archer/pkgIndex.tcl: revert the inadvertent loss of the Archer package
03:10.27CIA-9BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/libfb/tcl.c: go ahead and check for valid parameters to fb_refresh even if this isn't IF_X
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03:13.39CIA-9BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/mged/ged.c: ws
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03:39.19CIA-9BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/ (20 files in 3 dirs):
03:39.19CIA-9BRL-CAD: move the Pro/Engineer plugin from misc/pro-engineer to src/external/ProEngineer.
03:39.19CIA-9BRL-CAD: the new src/external directory is intended for all of the codes that are written
03:39.19CIA-9BRL-CAD: to work with and link against external packages (often as a plugin to said
03:39.19CIA-9BRL-CAD: external package)
03:42.13CIA-9BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/Makefile.am: traverse into src/external for all builds since there may be something to build in there if it was enabled
03:44.04CIA-9BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/configure.ac: misc/pro-engineer was moved to src/external so update the output Makefiles accordingly as well as the new src/external/Makefile and the plugin resource files
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03:56.56CIA-9BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/external/README: describe the contents of this directory and its intent
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03:58.18CIA-9BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/external/Makefile.am: distribute the new README as part of the source dist (oh yeah, the README also includes details on the Pro/Engineer plugin for starters)
04:01.05CIA-9BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/configure.ac: add some additional pro/engineer enable aliases
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14:48.02CIA-9BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/ (14 files in 2 dirs): moved the Unigraphics importer from src/conv/unigraphics to src/external/Unigraphics since it requires the external UGOPEN library api.
14:49.06CIA-9BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/conv/Makefile.am: the unigraphics directory is no longer stashed here, it moved to src/external/Unigraphics
14:50.15CIA-9BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/external/Makefile.am: add Unigraphics to the subdirectory list, moved over from src/conv/unigraphics to here since it relies on the external UGOPEN api/libraries
14:51.11CIA-9BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/configure.ac: src/conv/unigraphics was moved to src/external/Unigraphics, so update the corresponding Makefile generation
14:54.55CIA-9BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/external/README: include a blurb about the Unigraphics/NX importer.
15:01.28CIA-9BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/configure.ac: add configuration options supporting the Unigraphics importer, providing the BUILD_UG symbol if it is to be compiled (used in src/external)
15:05.01CIA-9BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/external/ProEngineer/.cvsignore: oop, forgot to add the .cvsignore file moved from misc/pro-engineer. add it.
18:16.34*** join/#brlcad IriX64 (n=IriX64@toronto-HSE-ppp4304467.sympatico.ca)
18:18.13IriX64pleasure to meet you all.
18:20.32IriX64is ftp.brlcad.org maintained by you people?
18:22.46IriX64urrr theres a skunk in the house.
18:26.40IriX64the geometry editor is quite good.
18:27.06IriX64err browser.
18:28.44IriX64terra.g loads but when trying to display it crashes.
18:29.56IriX64null mapped bu-pointer line 3135 but i forget the filname might have been g-disp..
18:34.02IriX64$ ERROR: NULL bu_mapped_file pointer, file g_dsp.c, line 3135
18:46.48IriX64would you like a paste of my current Shot:    ?
18:47.54IriX64SHOT: cpu = 4.938 sec, elapsed = 194.606 sec
18:47.54IriX64<PROTECTED>
18:47.55IriX64<PROTECTED>
18:47.55IriX64Additional mem=1482752., #malloc=795, #free=706, #realloc=17 (89 retained)
18:47.55IriX643224618 solid/ray intersections: 891704 hits + 2332914 miss
18:47.55IriX64pruned 27.7%:  306831 model RPP, 1824609 dups skipped, 736889 solid RPP
18:47.57IriX64Frame  0:     476100 pixels in      4.94 sec =     96415.55 pixels/sec
18:47.59IriX64Frame  0:     659931 rays   in      4.94 sec =    133643.38 rays/sec (RTFM)
18:48.01IriX64Frame  0:     659931 rays   in      4.94 sec =    133643.38 rays/CPU_sec
18:48.03IriX64Frame  0:     659931 rays   in    194.61 sec =      3391.11 rays/sec (wallclock)
18:48.05IriX64Raytrace complete.
18:48.31IriX64mged>  i took your silence as a yes.
18:48.35IriX64:)
18:49.28IriX64RTFM = Real Time Frame Measurement?   ;)
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18:51.52IriX64SHOT: cpu = 4.938 sec, elapsed = 194.606 sec
18:51.52IriX64<PROTECTED>
18:51.52IriX64<PROTECTED>
18:51.53IriX64Additional mem=1482752., #malloc=795, #free=706, #realloc=17 (89 retained)
18:51.53IriX643224618 solid/ray intersections: 891704 hits + 2332914 miss
18:51.55IriX64pruned 27.7%:  306831 model RPP, 1824609 dups skipped, 736889 solid RPP
18:51.57IriX64Frame  0:     476100 pixels in      4.94 sec =     96415.55 pixels/sec
18:51.59IriX64Frame  0:     659931 rays   in      4.94 sec =    133643.38 rays/sec (RTFM)
18:52.01IriX64Frame  0:     659931 rays   in      4.94 sec =    133643.38 rays/CPU_sec
18:52.03IriX64Frame  0:     659931 rays   in    194.61 sec =      3391.11 rays/sec (wallclock)
18:52.05IriX64Raytrace complete.
18:52.07IriX64mged>  urgggh sorry.
18:56.08IriX64mged> Building Photon Map:
18:56.09IriX64<PROTECTED>
18:56.09IriX64<PROTECTED>
18:56.09IriX64mged>  
18:56.09IriX64HitGB: 16384,3708
18:56.09IriX64Scale Factor: 227.108
18:56.11IriX64EPL: 2936811, Adjusted EPL: 2394819
18:56.13IriX64<PROTECTED>
18:56.15IriX64<PROTECTED>
18:58.30IriX64mged>  /me wonders how long this will take.
18:58.37IriX64err
18:59.58ValarQIriX64: still got pasting problems?
19:00.36IriX64yeah, finally figured it out though i think.
19:01.00IriX64the two environments insist on exclusicve clipboard :)
19:03.50IriX64when this is done, gonna try my latest build.
19:05.05IriX64aborted it, installing now im an impatient little sot :)
19:17.57siggraphat 3k rays/sec wallclock, photon mapping would take way way too long
19:18.08IriX64ray tracing with photon mapping now.
19:18.23IriX64we'll see.
19:19.18siggraphsomething still really wrong with your performance numbers .. the rtfm and wallclock should be within at least 10% of each other
19:19.40IriX64shouldn't have visualized the irradience cache, this is gonna take a while.
19:19.57siggraphhas it even said 10% progress yet? :)
19:20.20IriX64overlaps in havoc cluters the output area.
19:20.24siggraphit gives progress numbers, and it WILL take at least 10 times as long as rt to run unless you pick the worst settings
19:20.43IriX64did slap me quick :)
19:21.54IriX64OVERLAP1: /havoc/main_rotor/mr_bldassys/mr_bldassy101/mr_bldroot101/r.bld101
19:21.54IriX64OVERLAP2: /havoc/main_rotor/mr_bldassys/mr_bldassy101/mr_spinatch101/r.rot140
19:21.54IriX64OVERLAPa: dist=(1602.56,1602.56) isol=s.rot141.i osol=s.rot141
19:21.54IriX64OVERLAPb: depth 0.00312mm at (11525.2, -686.324, 2993.31) x0 y0 lvl0
19:21.54IriX64(overlaps omitted)
19:21.54IriX64OVERLAP1: /havoc/main_rotor/mr_bldassys/mr_bldassy101/mr_bldroot101/r.bld101
19:21.56IriX64OVERLAP2: /havoc/main_rotor/mr_bldassys/mr_bldassy101/mr_spinatch101/r.rot140
19:21.58IriX64OVERLAPa: dist=(3911.53,3911.53) isol=s.rot141.i osol=s.rot141
19:22.05IriX64thats whats going on.
19:22.26IriX64heh sorry.
19:22.33siggraphfeel free to fix them and submit an updaated havoc.g
19:22.49IriX64all right if you fix april.g ;)
19:23.10siggraphi'd send you something like april.g if you did that
19:23.39IriX64im lousy at cadding, use other peoples work to do my testing.
19:24.22IriX64irradiance cache progress 50%
19:24.26siggraphfixing overlaps is pretty easy .. you run rtcheck and it'll highlight the overlapping areas -- outputs a list of the geometry pairs too
19:24.45siggraphusually a simple matter of moving one object ever so slightly or subtracting one from the other
19:24.58siggraphthe one you pasted overlaps by just 0.00312mm
19:25.05IriX64why not use the overlap tool ?
19:25.26siggraphcould use that too
19:25.35IriX64smokeity smoke time bbiab.
19:26.19siggraphwoo.. new macbook pro has a VGR count of roughly 4800k... nice..
19:26.29siggraphs/00k/00/
19:35.09``Eriko.O
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20:25.14IriX64well it did it.
20:26.41IriX64what are you expecting another paste? :)
20:27.06IriX64my paste buffer runneth over :)
20:28.07IriX64siggraph: havoc.g your effort?
20:34.07IriX64no treads on the tires, just like the deauce and a half :)
20:44.07IriX64sweet s zoomed view, lets try a rotated view.
20:45.37IriX64she's showing me her underbelly :)
20:49.48IriX64would be too hard to paste this into the channel, but if anybody wants a screen shot ill supply.
20:55.21IriX64ok ive played with 5-click long enough time to buy the little gem, ill be away for a bit.
21:05.03IriX64there legally mine.
21:30.35IriX64bbiab
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22:01.13*** join/#brlcad boemann (n=cbr@213.237.55.84.adsl.nivaa.worldonline.dk)
22:01.19boemannHi there
22:01.35boemanna quick question not really related to brl
22:02.11boemannAre homogenous coordinates need internally in a cad application?
22:02.39boemannor will x,y,z do for storage and manipulation
22:13.00boemannnever mind - stupid question of course they are
22:13.34*** part/#brlcad boemann (n=cbr@213.237.55.84.adsl.nivaa.worldonline.dk)
22:38.38IriX64mmm a monolouge ;)
22:47.01IriX64| bjorkBSD (n=bjork@ip70-178-169-173.ks.ks.cox.net) (Network)
22:47.01IriX643 ircname  : bjork whoElse?
22:47.01IriX64| channels : ##opera ##freebsd #openlaszlo #brlcad #r
22:47.01IriX643 server   : irc.freenode.net (http://freenode.net/)
22:47.06IriX64<PROTECTED>
22:47.19IriX64#opera?
22:47.56IriX64werks ;)
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22:50.57IriX64[ctcp(bjorkBSD)] VERSION
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22:50.57IriX64<PROTECTED>
22:50.57IriX64[ctcp(IriX64)] VERSION
22:50.57IriX64>>> IriX64 [n=IriX64@toronto-HSE-ppp4304467.sympatico.ca] requested VERSION
22:50.57IriX64<PROTECTED>
22:50.59IriX64<PROTECTED>
22:51.01IriX64<PROTECTED>
22:51.22IriX64bjorkBSD wheres you get the xchat source?
Jeff Waugh - find it at freshmeat.net! Modified by Tim Riker to work with blootbot logs, split per channel, etc. irclog2html for #brlcad on 20060729

irclog2html for #brlcad on 20060729

02:00.20*** join/#brlcad Twingy (n=justin@c-69-250-236-111.hsd1.md.comcast.net)
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04:36.24*** topic/#brlcad is http://brlcad.org/ || BRL-CAD is an open source solid modeling software suite || Developers needed! Read the HACKING file for details on getting involved
05:15.47*** join/#brlcad ibot (i=ibot@rikers.org)
05:15.47*** topic/#brlcad is http://brlcad.org/ || BRL-CAD is an open source solid modeling software suite || Developers needed! Read the HACKING file for details on getting involved
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18:48.47*** join/#brlcad bryan_ (n=bryan@adsl-68-253-230-65.dsl.dytnoh.ameritech.net)
18:48.53bryan_hello
18:49.16bryan_I have read in a few places about the new "archer" interface.
18:49.29bryan_What is the purpose of this GUI?
18:49.45siggraphhello bryan_
18:49.57bryan_it doesn't run on my linux pc, and it looks like it might be developed on win32 first
18:50.10bryan_do you know anything about this sig?
18:50.14``Erikit was
18:50.22siggraphit was, though it only needs a few tweaks for linux
18:50.26bryan_ok.
18:50.29siggraphit also works on linux
18:50.32bryan_well what is it?
18:50.37siggraphdoesn't work on os x yet (minor issue)
18:50.58bryan_It throws errors including but not limited to can't find package blt
18:51.01siggraphit's basically the beginning of a new modeler, written using much of mged as a foundation
18:51.14bryan_that's what i figured looking at the code
18:51.17``Erikheh
18:51.24bryan_but couldn't get it to run properly
18:51.24siggraphyeah, the package search for blt is not working right, have to manually set some things for it to find blt
18:51.34bryan_hmm
18:51.45bryan_I have installed blt, but have no experience with tcl
18:51.52siggraphbasically, if you're at all familiar with mged, it's mged with an interface that sucks less *ss
18:51.57bryan_how does one set this up to work?
18:52.08bryan_i was hoping that was what it was
18:52.15siggraphhowdy ``Erik .. guess where i'm at :)
18:52.24bryan_I have been kisking around the idea of writing such a thing
18:52.27bryan_kicking
18:52.42siggraphahh
18:53.07bryan_i have used proe, soliddge, unigraphics, solidworks, etc and they are all getting nice GUIs
18:53.13``Erikbitch
18:53.41siggraphit's not exactly simple to explain how to get it working beyond "it's not ready for linux just quite yet (couple days/weeks)" .. otherwise it's a matter of tcl search path configuration
18:53.42bryan_and brlcad seems to be powerful, but about 5 years behing in the usability category
18:53.50``Erikohyeah, and kick lee in the butt for me, too
18:53.52siggraphheh 5 years
18:53.55``Erikass kickings for everyone.
18:53.55siggraphthat's being generous
18:54.14``Eriktim and chuck, too
18:54.15``Erikyo
18:54.17``Erik:/
18:54.20bryan_well it's about on par with proe 2000 so call it 7 years
18:54.22``ErikI'm grousy and unhappy.
18:54.24siggraph``Erik: I'll convery the information while I go bask in the hot tub.. hold on
18:54.31``Erik...
18:54.33``Erik'fucker
18:54.35siggraphhehe
18:55.01siggraphbryan_: yeah, the features are definitely there .. there's a solid 100+ manyears of development effort invested
18:55.02``Erik:>
18:55.04bryan_i'm new here, could I opt out of the ass kickings?
18:55.16bryan_I can see that
18:55.42bryan_I'm laid up with an achilles tear and I've been browsing the source for mged
18:55.51siggraphbryan_: he's just bitter because several of the devs are up at the annual ACM Siggraph conference and he's not
18:55.59bryan_ah
18:56.10bryan_well it beats being stuck on a sofa
18:56.11siggraphit's a rather fun conference to say the least
18:56.17bryan_like I am
18:56.23siggraphheh
18:56.29``Erikbryan: if you're not one of the few folk who get paychecks from teh same place as me, but DID get to go to siggraph this year, you are exempt.
18:56.57bryan_so the tcl search paths ought to be explained on the tcl site?
18:57.11``Erikfucking stupid motherfucking fucking goddamn fucking ...
18:57.17``Erikmebbe next year I'll present there, hah.
18:57.18``Erik:(
18:57.20``Erikfuk
18:57.23``ErikFUX
18:57.39``ErikO.o
18:57.49``Erik*pissed*
18:57.58``Erikalmost as much as the fucking bsdcan episode
18:58.05``Erikoooohhhhh I was fucking pissed
18:58.05siggraphinnovate that metaball, make it sweet, write a paper
18:58.11``Erikthat's the plan.
18:58.28``ErikI've yet to find anything approaching a reasonable bounding sphere for a metaball.
18:58.50siggraphbryan_: yes, it is.. though I could probably condense it all if you wait a little bit for me to look at the code
18:59.20siggraphprobably just a matter of copying the blt directory into a path that is already being searched will be the easiest
18:59.32``Erikthanks for the book, btw... couldn't find a name in it... if ya do that, you probably should at LEAST slap a postit on it...
18:59.32``Erik:)
18:59.36bryan_i'll try that
18:59.43``Erikotherwise, your library will dwindle ;)
18:59.48siggraphheh
18:59.51siggraphit's a great book
19:00.05``Erikit's a tiny book, but it looks reasonably dense
19:00.09siggraphpretty dense on the math and sparse on the explanations, but good summary
19:00.54``ErikI've had good math-heavy discussions with several math doctorates recently, if I NEED help groking the math, I have people to lean on :)
19:00.59siggraphplus it's got everything in context with the "big picture", so you can see what else has been done
19:01.26siggraphhow metaballs relate to blending in general for example
19:01.35``Erikthe latest wench happens to irc as well and intro'd me to a math phd whom I chattered with at lenght, he's "bored" and looking for mental exercises, heh
19:01.51``Erik(the latest wench is finishing up a masters in math, to boot)
19:02.06``Erikirritating that she's like 6mo younger than me and ahead of me on ed :/
19:02.08``Erik:D
19:16.50siggraphbryan_: try "export ARCHER_HOME=/usr/brlcad" then run archer again
19:16.55siggraphthat alone just might do the trick
19:17.46``Erikhah... PROG_HOME is so... archaic.
19:18.00bryan_ok
19:18.21``Erikwriting yesteryears software tomorrow.
19:18.22``Erik:(
19:19.12``Erikand seriously, dude, pimpslap lee for me :) the bitch is chillin' at fucking siggraph all glossyeyed and pimp promo shit, meanwhile the folk who could BENEFIT are sitting at home being grousy :D
19:19.14``Erik*duck*
19:19.19bryan_nah still get the error message
19:20.07``Erikis there anything in the paperwork on implicit surfaces?
19:20.38``ErikI mean, the $1500 to send me there would probably save more than 10k of my time, hah.
19:20.38``Erik:(*
19:20.45``Erik*grouse*
19:20.54``Erikstupid fucking gov't
19:20.56``Erik*shakes fist**
19:22.11``Erik<-- angry, and drinkin', so doubly angry :D
19:26.05siggraphevidently so
19:26.21siggraph(from the Siggraph Store)
19:26.31``Erik1heh
19:26.33siggraphbryan_: hrmph
19:26.59``Erikdo the pills have a fancy crescent and say 'S06' on 'em?
19:27.01``Erik:/
19:27.04siggraphbryan_: what does this report: find /usr/brlcad -type d -name blt2.4
19:27.25``Erikif the fucking wench wasn't gone to go to a wedding, I'd be breaking the bitch to try to calm down some.
19:27.30``Erik*grouse*
19:27.32siggraphnah, that was last years, this years is silver
19:27.39bryan_/usr/brlcad/lib/blt2.4
19:27.47``Erikjust plain silver? no "06"?
19:27.58bryan_sig, how do I send pm's in irc?
19:27.59siggraphsays boston06
19:28.09siggraphbryan_: /msg siggraph message
19:28.14bryan_danke
19:28.16``Erikbryan: /msg username msg
19:28.18``Erikheh
19:28.43siggraphtoo slow drunky
19:28.51``Erikand this net sucks, so if the person you want to message hasn't done something special, you need to be 'registered'...
19:28.58``Erikgood thing mr sean has 'done something special'
19:29.12``Erikdrunky? why, I oughta smack the shit outta you :D
19:29.32siggraphi'll sit by the pool waiting
19:29.44siggraphwith my martini
19:30.05siggraphactually.. i could go for a mojito
20:47.48*** join/#brlcad danfalck (n=dan@pool-71-111-76-8.ptldor.dsl-w.verizon.net)
21:30.40*** join/#brlcad IriX64 (n=IriX64@toronto-HSE-ppp4304848.sympatico.ca)
21:30.56IriX64hecklers back :)
21:32.48IriX64you know ./mged -c mode.
21:36.21siggraphIriX64: 'tops' will give a list of geometry -- 'e object' will display "object"
21:47.01``Erik-c is awesome
21:47.21``Erikdid you 'attach' a display type?
21:47.25``Eriklike, X or gl?
21:47.45``Erik<-- usually says "nu" when starting in -c, but has different intentions for using the thing
21:49.20IriX64nu
21:49.26siggraphthen type gui
21:49.35IriX64thankyou.
21:50.07CIA-9BRL-CAD: 03lbutler * 10brlcad/ (COPYING INSTALL include/machine.h src/libbu/parallel.c): changes to support Intel Mac parallel code
21:50.20``Erikoh shit, what did he break now
21:50.55IriX64dm_bestXtype invalid command name.
21:51.15siggraphwell for starters, he blew away COPYING and INSTALL
21:53.12``Eriksean, you have my permission to walk over and backhand him as hard as you can. :D
21:57.10CIA-9BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/INSTALL: revert -- I doubt these changes support the intel mac parallel code.. careful not to commit INSTALL as it is often automatically overwritten by automake
21:57.40``Erik*snicker*
21:57.54``Erikthat's a very polite and civil way to phrase it :D
21:57.56CIA-9BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/COPYING: revert -- I doubt these changes support the intel mac parallel code.. careful not to commit COPYING as it is often automatically overwritten by automake
22:36.58IriX64$ aclocal
22:36.58IriX64S
22:36.58IriX64<PROTECTED>
22:36.58IriX64<PROTECTED>
22:36.59IriX64I
22:36.59IriX64IBMCRYPT
22:37.01IriX64IBGCRYPT
22:37.03IriX64T2
22:37.05IriX64NIT
22:37.07IriX64aclocal:configure.ac:2765: warning: macro `AM_PATH_SDL' not found in library
22:40.06IriX64checking whether dependency tracking should be enabled... no
22:40.07IriX64checking for a BSD-compatible install... /usr/bin/install -c
22:40.07IriX64checking whether build environment is sane... yes
22:40.07IriX64checking for gawk... gawk
22:40.07IriX64checking whether make sets $(MAKE)... yes
22:40.07IriX64checking whether to enable maintainer-specific portions of Makefiles... no
22:40.09IriX64./configure: line 2271: syntax error near unexpected token `COPYING'
22:40.11IriX64./configure: line 2271: `BC_RESTORE_CLOBBERED(COPYING INSTALL, misc)'
22:40.13IriX64IriX64@hagarsfi-f038a0 ~/brlcad-10.0.0
22:40.59IriX64autoconf autoheader automake produced no warnings or erros.
22:41.07IriX64errors too.
22:41.46IriX64and don't tell me to fix it :)
22:42.18IriX64time to refresh my code tree i guess.
22:45.33IriX64fixed... the easy way, i leave the real work to you :)
22:46.05IriX64don't ignore it, it won't go away. :)
22:57.36IriX64maybe should be AM_PATH_TO_SDL ? :)
23:00.02IriX64not it.
23:05.53IriX64dnl works *shrug*
Jeff Waugh - find it at freshmeat.net! Modified by Tim Riker to work with blootbot logs, split per channel, etc. irclog2html for #brlcad on 20060730

irclog2html for #brlcad on 20060730

02:49.16IriX64#*#*#*#*#*#*#*#*#*#*#*#*#*#*#*#*#*#*#*#*#*#*#*#*#*#*#*#*#*#*#*#*#*#*#*#*#*#*#*#
02:49.16IriX64Benchmark results indicate an approximate VGR performance metric of 1274
02:49.16IriX64Logarithmic VGR metric is 3.11  (natural logarithm is 7.15)
02:49.16IriX64#*#*#*#*#*#*#*#*#*#*#*#*#*#*#*#*#*#*#*#*#*#*#*#*#*#*#*#*#*#*#*#*#*#*#*#*#*#*#*#
02:49.17IriX64These numbers seem to indicate that this machine is approximately 1274 times
02:49.19IriX64faster than the reference machine being used for comparison, a VAX 11/780
02:49.21IriX64running 4.3 BSD named VGR.  These results are in fact approximately 3.11
02:49.23IriX64orders of magnitude faster than the reference.
02:53.42*** join/#brlcad IriX64_ (n=IriX64@toronto-HSE-ppp4304848.sympatico.ca)
02:56.29IriX64refreshed my code tree and i'm back at 7.8.2 :)
03:02.40IriX64BRL-CAD: truck.g put treads on the tires.  :)
03:05.49IriX64overlap 2 of 2 object1: /g4/r59 overlaps object2: /g4/r74 by as much as 0.100005 in.
03:07.08IriX64Ray spacing (in) 3.93700
03:11.10IriX64fixed, no more overlaps.
03:15.20IriX64can't get mged -c to like me though ahh well.
03:46.34IriX64./configure --enable-almost-everything --with-x --enable-math --enable-optimizations --disable-symbols --disable-debug.
03:46.47IriX64well compare benchmarks after this ok?
03:47.40IriX64yah well mine compiles in .01 to the point ought fall he said :)
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12:18.22CIA-9BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/include/rtgeom.h: can only use 4 bytes, not 5 on the RT_METABALL_INTERNAL_MAGIC .. made it 'ball' instead of 'mball'
16:03.43*** part/#brlcad danfalck (n=dan@pool-71-111-76-8.ptldor.dsl-w.verizon.net)
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18:36.43CIA-9BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/configure.ac: make the 'whether to build against OpenGL' test actually run a function that it has to link against so that it doesn't erroneously pass and leave OpgnGL enabled when there is no library but headers exist.
18:51.30CIA-9BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/misc/Makefile.am: pro/e is no longer in this directory, same logic moved to src/external
18:54.39CIA-9BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/sh/lines.sh: initial revision of a new tool that computes how many lines of code BRL-CAD uses. this separates the code into various categories such as documentation, build system, non-project code, and the actual source code.
18:54.39CIA-9BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/sh/Makefile.am: add the new lines.sh script
18:55.50CIA-9BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/README: add an introductory header that hopefully better explains the various content in the src/ directory as well as a basic summary of just what it comprises before getting into the individual content dirs
18:57.32CIA-9BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/libdm/clip.c: quell warning on INFINITY (again), instead renaming the define to CLIP_DISTANCE (just without changing the value this time)
18:59.05CIA-9BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/ (sig/interp.c rt/viewxray.c): quell warning
18:59.28CIA-9BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/util/lowp.c: missing std headers
20:05.14CIA-9BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/sh/lines.sh: consistent line lengths
20:53.47IriX64$ mged
20:53.47IriX64Initializing and backgrounding, please wait...Done
20:55.41IriX64showoff ;)
20:56.20IriX64think i'll "go ahead and have a look around" ;)
20:59.14CIA-9BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/sh/lines.sh:
20:59.14CIA-9BRL-CAD: instead of using the 'total' summary from the wc command, calculate the sum
20:59.14CIA-9BRL-CAD: directly ourselves using a simple sum function. this slows things down
20:59.14CIA-9BRL-CAD: considerably, but is necessary to avoid the default behavior of xargs on linux
20:59.14CIA-9BRL-CAD: that can break up a piped stream into multiple invocations (resulting in
20:59.17CIA-9BRL-CAD: multiple total lines).
21:00.30IriX64xargs cab be disabled on the fly in linux, try that.
21:00.44IriX64can too :)
21:01.20IriX64./disable xargs();
21:01.34IriX64./do what you want();
21:01.43IriX64./enable xargs();
21:02.16IriX64look up spawn.
21:03.27IriX64time to offer tobbaco to manitou, bbiab.
21:26.26CIA-9BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/NEWS:
21:26.26CIA-9BRL-CAD: new script for computing BRL-CAD file line counts. this computes the line
21:26.27CIA-9BRL-CAD: counts of the various categories of files in the project including
21:26.27CIA-9BRL-CAD: documentation, source code (distinguishing header code from non-header source
21:26.27CIA-9BRL-CAD: code), 3rd party code (e.g. tcl/tk, png, urt, etc), and build system files.
23:28.19*** join/#brlcad danfalck (n=dan@pool-71-111-76-8.ptldor.dsl-w.verizon.net)
Jeff Waugh - find it at freshmeat.net! Modified by Tim Riker to work with blootbot logs, split per channel, etc. irclog2html for #brlcad on 20060731

irclog2html for #brlcad on 20060731

02:26.22IriX64photon mapping engaged.
02:27.01IriX64<PROTECTED>
02:27.01IriX64<PROTECTED>
02:27.01IriX64<PROTECTED>
02:32.40Twingyheh
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09:01.23UrielllHello everyone, how do I run brlcad on windows?
09:03.08ValarQUrielll: have you checked the README.Windows ?
09:05.15UrielllHmm I can't find this file on the MS packge
09:05.54ValarQoh well, it wasn't very usefull...
09:07.30UrielllAh, looks like I downloaded the wrong files
09:08.11UrielllThanks anyway ;)
09:08.14ValarQthe windows packages doesn't seem to contain very much
09:09.00ValarQyoure probably better of compiling it from source
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13:32.24siggraphUrielll: there's a dll developer download as well as the usual binary distribution.. you probably got the dll
13:32.57siggraphthat won't last very long, it's going to get moved into its own section so it's not so opaque
13:33.14UrielllYeah I understood that, thank you :)
15:18.08CIA-9BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/liboptical/shade.c: quell warning, takes floats not fastf_t's
15:19.26CIA-9BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/proc-db/picket_fence.c: fixed incorrect parameter usage of mk_lcomb .. takes an array of three char values, not a string of colors
16:58.25``Erikls
17:27.43*** join/#brlcad IriX64 (n=IriX64@toronto-HSE-ppp4301974.sympatico.ca)
17:28.00IriX64regards all.
17:28.34IriX64rotate-check,drag-check,scale-check   :)
17:28.49IriX64gui working nicely.
17:32.21IriX64shot10.jpg on ftp.brlcad.org/incoming. :)
17:33.18``Eriksean, ya there? I gotz an interface question (proxy)
17:44.23IriX64shot11.jpg
17:48.46IriX64mged> B
17:48.46IriX64Error: Usage: B [-A -o -C#/#/# -s] <objects | attribute name/value pairs>
17:49.46IriX64<PROTECTED>
17:51.05``Erik'B' is for blast o.O
17:51.24``Erikfunctionally equivelant to running 'Z' then 'e'
17:51.43IriX64sticky too.
17:52.32IriX64heh naughty boy ;)
17:53.43``Erik??? I'm not the one making things sticky!!!
17:54.06IriX64but you know of it so you've used this method.
17:58.46IriX64amp lify that. but it's not amp lified.
18:00.45IriX64gotta recompile. bbiab=bebackinabit :)
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18:04.32IriX64valiant :)
18:05.14IriX64gionnini here?
18:06.06IriX64sob is probably in with the admiral. :)
18:06.43IriX64look the incinerator is pumping out black smoke.
18:09.06IriX64back to mged
18:13.48IriX64is pasting permitted?
18:15.05IriX64SHOT: cpu = 1.969 sec, elapsed = 63.466 sec
18:15.05IriX64<PROTECTED>
18:15.05IriX64<PROTECTED>
18:15.05IriX64Additional mem=1507328., #malloc=903, #free=710, #realloc=26 (193 retained)
18:15.06IriX64349487 solid/ray intersections: 102577 hits + 246910 miss
18:15.06IriX64pruned 29.4%:  387470 model RPP, 2320981 dups skipped, 326723 solid RPP
18:15.11IriX64Frame  0:     476100 pixels in      1.97 sec =    241797.87 pixels/sec
18:15.11IriX64Frame  0:     483790 rays   in      1.97 sec =    245703.40 rays/sec (RTFM)
18:15.12IriX64Frame  0:     483790 rays   in      1.97 sec =    245703.40 rays/CPU_sec
18:15.14IriX64Frame  0:     483790 rays   in     63.47 sec =      7622.82 rays/sec (wallclock)
18:15.16IriX64Raytrace complete.
18:15.22IriX64mged>  took your silence as a yes.
18:16.20IriX64now take a lead pencil and tap you're teeth with it..... ;)
18:17.24IriX64time to light a fire close to my mouth , i'll be back shortly.
18:20.43*** kick/#brlcad [IriX64!n=sean@pdpc/supporter/silver/brlcad] by siggraph (you've asked three times in the past and been told the same every single time including pleas/complaints from others.. NO, pasting is not allowed (for you, now))
18:20.43*** join/#brlcad IriX64 (n=IriX64@toronto-HSE-ppp4301974.sympatico.ca)
18:24.42*** topic/#brlcad by siggraph -> http://brlcad.org/ || BRL-CAD is an open source solid modeling software suite || Developers needed! Read the HACKING file for details on getting involved || SIGGRAPH BOF, Tuesday @ 4pm!
18:26.16IriX64what size was that boot? :)
18:26.23IriX64but point taken.
18:27.34IriX64Do I have this correct then, the overlap tool can either raytrace (to my spec) to find overlaps, or it can take input from a glint file?
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18:30.32siggraphIriX64: yes, pretty much
18:30.41IriX64thankyou.
18:31.15siggraphfor overlap detection, there is basically "rtcheck", "g_lint", and "g_qa"
18:31.39siggraphthe overlap tool runs one of the first two for you (the third only recently been written)
18:31.49IriX64having trouble choosing apprpriate ray spacing, using 10cm at the moment.
18:32.15IriX64on havoc that is.
18:32.35IriX64azimuth and elevation both 0.
18:33.15siggraphif you use the command window, you can run rtcheck directly, e.g. rtcheck -s 50
18:33.29siggraphfor 50x50 grid of test rays
18:34.05IriX64ahh i get it. my way comes up overlap 1 of 9 edit object 1 etc...
18:35.02IriX64can also read overlaps from a g_lint file.
18:36.06IriX64can i ftp you a screen shot? maybe you can help me out?
18:38.11IriX64or maybe dcc.
18:38.16IriX64or mail.
18:43.30IriX64screen shots ready.
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19:15.40catskulcan brl read stp/step models?
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21:12.35IriX64announcing the t90-cray-unicos BRL-CAD v 10.0.0 :)
22:42.42``Erikirix.. knock that shit off... we ferakin' WRITE brlcad, we KNOW what version we're on, we KNOW where it works, we even have a fucking cray c2!
Jeff Waugh - find it at freshmeat.net! Modified by Tim Riker to work with blootbot logs, split per channel, etc. irclog2html for #brlcad on 20060801

irclog2html for #brlcad on 20060801

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03:02.59IriX64yah, but you don't know all the players ;)
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14:23.32siggraphhmm
14:23.47CIA-9BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/libtclcad/tkCanvBezier.c:
14:23.47CIA-9BRL-CAD: finally rewrite tkCanvBezier to NOT use libtk internal headers (as it was
14:23.47CIA-9BRL-CAD: written as a proper new libtk Canvas type, but hasn't been pushed through the
14:23.47CIA-9BRL-CAD: tcl/tk 'TIP' process). this change should make it feasible to compile this code
14:23.47CIA-9BRL-CAD: without having to have a copy of the Tk sources around .. more testing needed.
14:24.17siggraphjustin_: you got a brief mention at one of the courses yesterday from Ingo iirc
14:26.01CIA-9BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/libtclcad/tclcadTkSetup.c: remove old comment
14:26.59CIA-9BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/libtclcad/tkImgFmtPIX.c: removing the asize.c bn_common_* file autosizing functions, consolidating them to libfb. so update the function names to fb_ now
14:39.10CIA-9BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/include/config_win.h: windows apparently doesn't have socklen_t defined, so make it an int so that WIN32 hacks can be removed
14:39.42clock_bor #ifndef socklen_t #define socklen_t int #endif
14:48.52CIA-9BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/libbu/parallel.c: run the provided function single-threaded even if bu_parallel() is called on a system that doesn't have PARALLEL support compiled in
15:01.47CIA-9BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/rt/ext.h: don't need to (nor should we) declare worker() here
15:02.37CIA-9BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/rt/worker.c: reorder functions so that forward declarations are not needed
15:03.53CIA-9BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/ (32 files in 9 dirs):
15:03.53CIA-9BRL-CAD: refactor the three asize.c implementations (libbn, libfb, & canon) into just
15:03.53CIA-9BRL-CAD: one. libbn had the most comprehensive and updated version, but the logic
15:03.53CIA-9BRL-CAD: belongs in libfb. so, the bn_common autosizing functions are now consolidated
15:03.53CIA-9BRL-CAD: to libfb, refactoring accordingly.
15:20.55CIA-9BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/fbserv/ (Makefile.am fbserv.c fbserv_win.c):
15:20.56CIA-9BRL-CAD: refactor fbserv.c and fbserv_win.c so that there is only one file that
15:20.56CIA-9BRL-CAD: supports/contains all of the mods that fbserv_win.c was presuming. this needs
15:20.56CIA-9BRL-CAD: testing but is more functionally clean, relying on configure-style tests/defines
15:20.56CIA-9BRL-CAD: instead of WIN32 where easily possible
15:33.23CIA-9BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/configure.ac: (log message trimmed)
15:33.23CIA-9BRL-CAD: try enabling the automatic detection/compilation of tcl/tk now that
15:33.23CIA-9BRL-CAD: tkCanvasBezier is cleaned up to not use internal Tk headers. probably still
15:33.23CIA-9BRL-CAD: need to work on Tcl autopath issues, but give it a shot. also add a slew of
15:33.23CIA-9BRL-CAD: checks for WGL so that a new framebuffer and display manager interface may be
15:33.26CIA-9BRL-CAD: defined on Windows that is separate from the ogl interface. this is important
15:33.28CIA-9BRL-CAD: for cygwin/mingw systems where it is possible to use both wgl and ogl style
15:34.20CIA-9BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/include/dm-wgl.h: initial dm-wgl.h header for a new 'wgl' interface, separating it from the X11-based ogl interface and cleaning up the code
15:35.11CIA-9BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/include/dm-ogl.h: make the 'ogl' interface be X11 OpenGL only. windows is being moved to its own 'wgl' interface
15:38.05CIA-9BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/ (NEWS include/light.h src/liboptical/sh_light.c): allow unlimited light samples during ray-tracing instead of a fixed compile-time count (was 128)
15:39.18CIA-9BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/misc/win32-msvc7/fbserv/fbserv.vcproj: fbserv_win.c was consolidated into fbserv.c
15:40.14``Erikdagnabbit, another hchange to configure.ac
15:40.58CIA-9BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/misc/win32-msvc7/libdm/libdm.vcproj:
15:40.58CIA-9BRL-CAD: use the new DM_WGL interface instead of the former DM_OGL interface so that the
15:40.58CIA-9BRL-CAD: latter may also be compiled at the same time (e.g. cygwin/mingw environments)
15:40.58CIA-9BRL-CAD: but also to allow the ogl interface to consistently imply just one interface.
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15:44.28CIA-9BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/libdm/dm-ogl.c: update comment to note that the ogl interface is specifically an X11 OpenGL interface (i.e. it's XGL.. might want to rename it to that someday, but oh well). ws
15:45.29CIA-9BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/libfb/Makefile.am: libfb now compiles asize.c as it was updated and refactored with the better libbn version. compress.c is not really relevant/useful any longer.
15:46.23CIA-9BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/liboptical/sh_prj.c: unused/unnecessary ../rt/ext.h header
15:47.13CIA-9BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/rt/ (Makefile.am light.h): the 'local' light.h header was redundant with include/light.h so remove it
15:50.10CIA-9BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/libsysv/ (9 files): remove the obsolete regular expression implementation, there is a src/other/libregex that is more up-to-date.
15:51.46CIA-9BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/libfb/compress.c: remove the obsolete compress.c file .. can be restored from revision history should someone really ever need to revisit compression on such old hardware
15:52.11CIA-9BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/include/Makefile.am: install the new dm-wgl.h header
15:52.50CIA-9BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/misc/win32-msvc7/ (libtclcad/libtclcad.vcproj mged/mged.vcproj): use the DM_WGL interface instead of DM_OGL
15:53.05CIA-9BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/adrt/libcommon/Makefile.am: removed comment
15:53.52CIA-9BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/libbn/Makefile.am: remove asize.c file -- was refactored into src/libfb/asize.c
15:54.57CIA-9BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/libdm/Makefile.am: add dm-wgl.c to the compilation list based on the WITH_WGL automake symbol being defined by configure -- this allows the wgl interface to be simultaneously compiled alongside the ogl interface
15:55.52CIA-9BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/rttherm/viewtherm.c: use the main light.h header, not the (now gone) private src/rt/light.h header
15:59.18CIA-9BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/libdm/dm-wgl.c:
15:59.18CIA-9BRL-CAD: add an initial implementation of a WindowsGL 'wgl' libdm interface using the
15:59.18CIA-9BRL-CAD: former dm-ogl_win32.c code as a basis. remove the XGL sections and add
15:59.18CIA-9BRL-CAD: boilerplate checks that makes sure this interface can be compiled alongside the
15:59.18CIA-9BRL-CAD: 'ogl' interface. expects DM_OGL to be defined in order to get functionality.
16:01.31CIA-9BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/libfb/if_wgl.c:
16:01.32CIA-9BRL-CAD: initial stub of a libfb IF_WGL 'wgl' interface to replace usage of 'ogl' on
16:01.32CIA-9BRL-CAD: Windows. this is done to support the libdm design intent of interfaces for each
16:01.32CIA-9BRL-CAD: style of display manager, instead of piggy-backing on top of 'ogl' and
16:01.32CIA-9BRL-CAD: complicating the code with preprocessor WIN32 checks everywhere. haven't
16:01.32CIA-9BRL-CAD: updated the names/code yet.. just a stub file.
16:02.13CIA-9BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/libfb/Makefile.am: add the new if_wgl.c file, not yet compiled
16:03.39CIA-9BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/ (20 files in 20 dirs): update the usage of LIBRT from configure to be RT instead so that it is consistent with the other BU, BN, WDB etc library defines, using the LIB prefix mostly on third party or external libraries instead.
16:09.01CIA-9BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/libfb/Makefile.am: check for the WITH_WGL symbol from configure to add the WGL cflags
16:09.37CIA-9BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/configure.ac: oops, typo.. close the macro
16:11.47CIA-9BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/configure.ac: bah, another.. wgl_link_works, not gl_link_works
16:21.24CIA-9BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/libfb/if_wgl.c: update names, s/ogl/wgl/
16:22.01CIA-9BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/libfb/Makefile.am: compile if_wgl.c now that it'll check for IF_WGL being defined
16:25.26ValarQsiggraph: changed nick?
16:36.34siggraphValarQ: hmm?
16:37.58ValarQor where is that @brlcad fellow?
16:38.08siggraphah
16:38.15siggraphyes, same fellow
16:38.39ValarQok :)
16:38.41siggraphi'm at the annual ACM Siggraph conference this week
16:40.55CIA-9BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/conv/jack/Makefile.am: g-jack needs his libraries too
16:40.57siggraphfor those that have known me on irc for a long time, it's their queue that I'm in and out of rooms, not on-line as much .. busy etc ;)
16:43.14CIA-9BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/conv/patch/Makefile.am: use RT now instead of LIBRT
17:23.50*** join/#brlcad IriX64 (n=IriX64@toronto-HSE-ppp4301974.sympatico.ca)
17:24.49IriX64``Erik: apologies for last night, I keep forgetting announcements here are taken seriously, should have put a smiley face on that. I'll watch it from now on.
17:32.21IriX64was just trying to tell you my code generator is coming along nicely ``Erik.
17:33.49IriX64don't use --host, set the build switch and if a cross compiler is detected it will be used, you know?
17:35.13IriX64you want my config.log?
17:36.55IriX64its in config.sub you know, the t90-cray-unicos.
17:38.19IriX64i've tackled maybe 20% of whats in config.sub.
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17:41.11IriX64mmm the nmi pin?
17:41.23*** join/#brlcad z80pin6 (i=clock@84-72-92-211.dclient.hispeed.ch)
17:41.47IriX64guess not :)
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17:53.04IriX64hahah ./jove ==>segmentation fault core dumped
17:53.27IriX64now how do i get runtime testing? :)
17:53.32ValarQemerge emacs # :P
17:53.40IriX64heh yah.
17:54.00IriX64got a t90 ValarQ?
17:54.24ValarQno
17:54.38IriX64heh me either ill just inspect the code.
17:54.44ValarQi guess you mean one of these: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/T-90
17:55.13ValarQi would love to get my hands on one :)
17:55.47ValarQ"125 mm smoothbore gun with ATGM capability" :D
17:56.02IriX64hahhahah my cross compiler doesn't support *That t90. :)
17:56.08ValarQaw :(
17:56.17IriX64nice ride?
17:56.58IriX64wouldn't rifling it make it go more far more accuratly?
17:57.03ValarQi don't think so, they usually isn't very comfortable
17:58.26ValarQwe only had 75mm canons where i used to work...
17:59.19IriX6475mm , question stands would rifling the barrel help?
17:59.32ValarQdon't know actually
18:00.00IriX64help on hunting weapons, even arrows these days twist in flight.
18:00.05IriX64helps too.
18:00.17ValarQyeah, but here the forces is much bigger
18:00.33IriX64physics cares little about scale.
18:00.42siggraphIriX64: do you have a backtrace?
18:00.55IriX64what the core dump?
18:01.01ValarQIriX64: true, but not necessary the materials
18:01.05siggraphno, the backgrace
18:01.16ValarQs/necessary/necessarily/
18:01.17siggraphs/gr/tr/
18:01.19IriX64didnt look just tried to run it.
18:01.27IriX64whats it called?
18:01.31siggraphcan you run it in a debugger?
18:01.34IriX64just a sec ill find it.
18:01.49IriX64no man its t90 architecture.
18:01.56siggraphand more importantly, is this the latest cvs or some source release?
18:02.13IriX64something ive worked on.
18:02.35IriX64from the source tarball 7.6.0 and up to 7.8.2 from sourceforge.
18:03.04IriX64cant be a backtrace think why.
18:03.30ValarQIriX64: "The cannon, in the form of the tank gun, has made the transition from smoothbore to rifled, and is moving back to smoothbore."
18:03.35ValarQIriX64: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Smoothbore
18:03.43IriX64dont have a t90 debugger man, sorry :)
18:04.07IriX64really valarq?
18:04.17IriX64ill look that up right now.
18:07.39ValarQIriX64: yeah, it seems as they use longer projectiles there is no need for rifled cannons
18:08.06IriX64they cheat they use fins :)
18:09.11IriX64like arrows, tell them to use the fins to impart a stability spin and minimize tumbling.
18:10.20IriX64btw that v10.0.0 is simply what I call mine :)
18:13.53IriX64this'll be a little while yet, I'm taking a smoke break, be back in a bit.
18:41.45IriX64ftp.brlcad.org, Brl-Cad-10.0.0.bz2 if you're curious.
18:41.55IriX64incoming of course.
18:45.20IriX64I...  touch things, you know, to relax, are any of you like that?
18:54.20IriX64its there. :)
19:19.06CIA-9BRL-CAD: 03erikgreenwald * 10brlcad/src/librt/g_metaball.c:
19:19.06CIA-9BRL-CAD: Drastically improved bounding sphere computation (better center and fit).
19:19.07CIA-9BRL-CAD: Fix for 'garbage' normals resulting in noisy images in some situations.
19:19.07CIA-9BRL-CAD: Obey the 'one-hit' flag in the shot routine.
19:21.09``Erikirix64: do you have the 'file' program?
19:35.38*** join/#brlcad TechNeck (i=techneck@basic-lip.shekel.dreamhost.com)
19:36.12TechNeckhi guys
19:36.39TechNeckjust checking out brlcad for the first time
19:36.43TechNeckpretty useful?
19:44.50``Eriksome people seem to think so, it's been in use for about 25 yrs now...
19:50.12siggraphTechNeck: I like it
19:50.14siggraph:)
19:52.35TechNeckI use freebsd and some different flavors of linux at home
19:52.47``Erik/usr/ports/cad/brlcad
19:52.48TechNeckwork is all windows based
19:53.08TechNeckI'm at work and grabbed the sourceforge windows version
19:53.16TechNeckit's a dll :/
19:53.58TechNeckIs brlcad just the library?
19:54.01``Erikno
19:54.06``ErikI think you need the _devel file?
19:54.22``Erikor
19:54.23``Erikno
19:54.27``Erikyou probably need the 7.8.0 one
19:54.32TechNeckis it a working application in itself? or do I have to make one with it?
19:54.39``Erikit looks a lot meatier
19:54.48``Erikit's a collection of 400 and something executables
19:54.52TechNeckok
19:54.56``Erik'mged' being the one most people want to use first
19:55.35TechNeckIt doesn't replace AutoCAD right out of the box, though, does it?
19:55.51``Erikit's goal is a little different
19:56.34``Erikautocad is very much a draft generation system, not a 3d engineering/analysis tool?
19:56.34TechNeckI'm saying, though, we could develop and AutoCAD replacement with this, yea?
19:56.40TechNeckI see it has conversion tools
19:57.07``Erikwell, yeah, it copes with dxf, the draft features are just a bit weaker, I guess, and the UI is a bit different
19:57.44``Erik<-- not a modeller, is a coder, so not very familiar iwth autocad or the other halfdozen cad type activitites
20:09.35``Eriksweet
20:11.06archivistI never liked Orcad, I used PCAD
20:14.31archivistMy old DOS version of PCAD (cant afford to upgrade) still has stuff that makes me continue using it
20:15.17CIA-9BRL-CAD: 03erikgreenwald * 10brlcad/src/conv/off/Makefile.am: LIBRT moved to RT
20:18.25CIA-9BRL-CAD: 03erikgreenwald * 10brlcad/src/remrt/Makefile.am: rtsrv needs libfb
20:22.24CIA-9BRL-CAD: 03erikgreenwald * 10brlcad/src/liboptical/Makefile.am: sh_billboard.c requires libfb for fb_common_name_size, so add it to the deplibs
20:26.25CIA-9BRL-CAD: 03erikgreenwald * 10brlcad/src/remrt/Makefile.am: since liboptical now deplibs libfb, we can remove libfb from the explicit ldadd
20:51.42CIA-9BRL-CAD: 03erikgreenwald * 10brlcad/src/librt/g_metaball.c:
20:51.42CIA-9BRL-CAD: Shoot all the way through if ap->a_onehit is not true (opposed to through the first in/out pair).
20:51.43CIA-9BRL-CAD: Apply the 'stepping' optimization to walking after the first hit.
20:51.43CIA-9BRL-CAD: Minor cleanup for -Wall -Werror -ansi -pedantic.
20:55.23``Eriklots and lots of beer
20:55.24``Erik:D
21:09.47TechNeckhmm
21:09.55TechNecklooks cool
21:10.07TechNeckcrashes when I go to make an extrusion though
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21:28.55matt_ezeki_230hi guys...
21:37.46matt_ezeki_230i've a problem with clone function. Let me provide an example:
21:38.07matt_ezeki_2301) in a.s rcc 0 0 -2 0 0 4 1
21:38.22matt_ezeki_2302) in b.s rcc 0 -2 0 0 4 0 1
21:38.43matt_ezeki_2303) r ab.r u a.s u b.s
21:39.12matt_ezeki_2304) clone ab.r
21:40.00Twingythat's good I guess
21:41.35matt_ezeki_230db_read(test.g) ERROR offset=424, count=10240, dbi_eof=504
21:42.20matt_ezeki_230ERROR: clone internal error, cannot find ab.r for editing
21:42.46matt_ezeki_230Database read error, aborting
21:43.03matt_ezeki_230.
21:43.03matt_ezeki_230.
21:43.09matt_ezeki_230any ideas?
21:46.11Twingytry converting it
21:46.29Twingythere's a utility to bring it up to the "latest" ver
21:47.52matt_ezeki_230should I convert command clone?
21:48.10Twingy"command clone" ?
21:49.40matt_ezeki_230you said "try converting it"... what is "it"?
21:51.01Twingyyour file
21:54.59matt_ezeki_230sorry, I'm a newbie in brlcad but... which conversion should I do to my file (from *.g to...)? which utility should I use to do this and why should a *.g file be a problem?
21:55.38Twingycheck the converters directory
22:07.09matt_ezeki_230which is the converters directory? /usr/brlcad/.....?
22:11.56Twingythen get installed in bin
22:12.02Twingythe src/conv has the list
22:12.14TwingyI'll be back later, I got some stuff going on here
Jeff Waugh - find it at freshmeat.net! Modified by Tim Riker to work with blootbot logs, split per channel, etc. irclog2html for #brlcad on 20060802

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02:52.14*** join/#brlcad dan_falck (n=danfalck@pool-71-111-76-8.ptldor.dsl-w.verizon.net)
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09:49.53*** join/#brlcad matt_ezeki_230 (n=matt@host-84-223-138-136.cust-adsl.tiscali.it)
10:23.36matt_ezeki_230hi... I'm here again because I keep on having problems with "clone <obj>" command
10:23.45matt_ezeki_230let me provide a simple mged session which expose the issue:
10:23.53matt_ezeki_230$ mged test.g
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10:24.09matt_ezeki_230mged> in a.s rcc 0 0 -2 0 0 4 1
10:24.15matt_ezeki_230mged> in b.s rcc 0 -2 0 0 4 0 1
10:24.46matt_ezeki_230mged> r rab.r u a.s u b.s
10:24.53matt_ezeki_230mged> clone -n 1 rab.r
10:25.01matt_ezeki_230db_read(test.g) ERROR offset=424, count=10240, dbi_oef=504
10:25.11matt_ezeki_230ERROR: clone internal error, cannot find rab.r for editing
10:25.17matt_ezeki_230Database read error, aborting
10:25.30matt_ezeki_230...but if I list the objects in database...
10:25.40matt_ezeki_230mged> ls -l
10:25.45matt_ezeki_230a.s tgc12160
10:25.50matt_ezeki_230b.s tgc12160
10:25.54matt_ezeki_230rab.r region1   31    80
10:26.07matt_ezeki_230...and...
10:26.17matt_ezeki_230mged> l rab.r
10:26.22matt_ezeki_230rab.r: REGION id=1000 (air=0, los=100, GIFTmater=1) --
10:26.27matt_ezeki_230u a.s
10:26.32matt_ezeki_230u b.s
10:26.44matt_ezeki_230...I hope someone could help me to solve this issue...
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13:25.18siggraphmatt_ezeki_230: clone does not yet work on db 5 databases.. I should have disabeled it, but unintentionally left it enabled for the past release
13:27.17siggraphTechNeck: it certainly doesn't replace autocad out of the box, but we also certainly could fill in the missing pieces with development
13:27.29siggraphwe're mostly at a lack of dev hands, not ideas or plans ;)
13:28.15clock_siggraph: like everybody
13:28.38siggraphto some extents
13:28.59siggraphsome projects I've worked on are actually at a sweet spot of developer activity
13:29.35siggraph5 or 6 active devs is pretty ideal if they are globally distributed, a few more if you can all get together more consistently
13:30.23siggraph(and by active, I mean very active.. fully invested in development)
13:31.15siggraphmatt_ezeki_230: basically, you'll need to use the Pattern tool (on the Tools menu) instead of the clone command for now
13:32.20siggraphTechNeck: you have an extrusion that is crashing?  I'd be interested in knowing what steps you took that caused it..
13:40.33matt_ezeki_230siggraph: ok! It works! many thanks :-)
13:41.57``Erikdamn shootray is one bigassed function
13:43.50clock_``Erik: I say ass so wide one could project 20 widescreen movies on it
13:49.06``Erikiiiiiinteresting
13:49.35clock_``Erik: Especially in connection with women. My sexual subsystem is not particularly tuned to women and their wide asses ;-)
13:54.02archivistmore that a handfull and the rest goes to waste
13:54.13archivistthat=than
13:55.37CIA-9BRL-CAD: 03johnranderson * 10brlcad/src/gtools/g_transfer.c: Corrected the compile instructions
13:58.42matt_ezeki_230siggraph: only a last question... I choose tab named "rectangular", depth of duplication = primitives, source string = rab, replacement string = k1, objects = rab.r and I obtained a cloned region k1.r builded with primitives a.s_1 and b.s_1. Is there a way to obtain k1.r builded with primitives k1_a.s (instead of a.s_1) and k1_b.s (instead of b.s_1) **in a straight manner** (e.i without to use command "mvall" to rename them
13:58.42matt_ezeki_230<PROTECTED>
15:01.57siggraphhmmm
16:54.17*** join/#brlcad IriX64 (n=IriX64@toronto-HSE-ppp4308110.sympatico.ca)
17:25.05IriX64who is peer, and why is he always resetting my connection. :)
17:34.24IriX64you people must be very very busy, I would hate to have your jobs. :)
17:58.38siggraphIriX64: always very very busy, but I actually rather enjoy my job :)
17:59.26siggraphthough enjoying one's job is almost entirely just a state of mind, personal tolerance, and values
18:01.00IriX64thought it was a matter of payola ;)
18:01.44IriX64must admit enough payola contributes greatly to the enjoment of one job. :)
18:01.56IriX64enjoyment too.
18:03.28siggraphnah
18:03.40IriX64heh ok.
18:03.52siggraphi'd work for a heck of a lot less if someone bought me my toys and kept me fed
18:04.20IriX64agreed feel the same way.
18:04.28siggraphthat just gets back to tolerance and values.. some value the pay and not the work
18:04.50IriX64true way too much importance is attached to dollars.
18:06.20``Erikmoney is a means, not an end...
18:06.36IriX64if it was an end i could quit work.
18:06.46*** join/#brlcad IriX64_ (n=IriX64@toronto-HSE-ppp4308110.sympatico.ca)
18:06.56archivistnot enough money == not enough toys (my current situation)
18:07.10``Erikbuy cheaper toys?
18:07.18``Erikyou can do some gnarly stuff with 74xx ttl's
18:07.59IriX64quick i just threw you a 7404 what did you do with it? :)
18:08.12``Erikstick it up my nose
18:08.18archivistI collect free toys others throw away
18:08.31IriX64erik there 3 othe pices.
18:08.38``Erikwithout some kinda board, wiring, solder, i/o devices, etc... that's about what it's good forr
18:08.57IriX64name a toy.
18:09.27IriX64trs80?
18:09.32archivistHP 1631D logic analyser
18:09.43IriX64thats hp 16540
18:10.10IriX64analyzer :)
18:10.28IriX64ermf anal izer :)
18:11.59``Erikor mebbe an oh40 for the onboard fpu
18:12.22IriX64man that an sx chip.
18:12.58IriX64wonder if i can support the amdahl?
18:14.25IriX64those guys are tight lipped about their instuction set (unless you're a customer)
18:14.33``Erikerm...
18:14.44``Erikthe motorola 68030 is a very old, open, and widely known chip...
18:14.58``Eriknot TOO long ago, they'd send you free opcode and schematic books
18:15.00IriX64thought that was the m68000
18:15.16``Erikthe whole 68k line
18:15.32IriX64mmm pdp11 on a chip that one i know.
18:15.38``Erik030 added an onboard mmu, 040 added an onboard fpu...
18:16.41archivistI have a few motorolas in my cpu collection some on the original boards
18:17.02IriX6412737 301 777566 ===> mov the number following this instruction to the address following that number, nowq whats it doing?
18:17.47IriX64prints a capital a on the console typer :)
18:19.58IriX64must go buy a case of sandwiches, be back in a bit.
18:49.30CIA-9BRL-CAD: 03erikgreenwald * 10brlcad/include/machine.h: adding {free,open,net}bsd to the ugly hackery
19:53.55``Eriksiggraph: ap->a_onehit intends for only the very first 'in' (assuming you start 'out') hit to be used?
20:01.43*** join/#brlcad bjorkBSD (n=bjork@ip70-178-169-173.ks.ks.cox.net)
20:05.49siggraph``Erik: pretty much
20:06.11``Erikerm... "pretty much"?
20:06.28siggraphit computes the first hitpoint along a ray
20:07.12``Erika lot of primitives go ahead and do the first and second hitpoints... in and out... :/
20:07.16siggraphand instead of progressing the ray more, it halts
20:08.32``Erikof course, a lot of primitives get that for free :)
20:09.15siggraphyes, some do.. and they probably shouldn't
20:09.20CIA-9BRL-CAD: 03erikgreenwald * 10brlcad/src/librt/bool.c: don't complain about an inside-out primitive when 'out' is unset and a_onehit is set
20:09.24siggraphbut is generally already computed information
20:12.25siggraphhmm.. i'm not sure that is valid
20:12.54``Erikwhy not?
20:14.03siggrapha_onehit serves multiple purposes
20:14.28siggraphif a_onehit == 1, then it should be only the first in point if I read the comments correctly
20:14.42siggraphvalue of 2 would be the first entry/exit pair
20:14.49``Erikmeh, the manpage is off?
20:15.12siggraphwhich manpage?
20:15.27``Eriklibrt
20:15.39siggraphread src/librt/bool.c's comment
20:15.47``Erikmakes it sound like a boolean, not a count
20:16.11siggraphfor 'rt', it's used as a boolean
20:19.40``Erik'k, taken care of
20:24.00siggraphshould update NEWS when you make changes like machine.h .. that fixes crashing problems if I'm not mistaken
20:24.09siggraphno?
20:24.32``Eriknope
20:24.50``Erikthe default stuff worked on bsd, it just didn't go parallel by default
20:25.38siggraphnot even the 64bit addage?
20:26.59``Erikooh
20:27.01``Erikshit
20:27.56``Erikgnarly
20:28.01CIA-9BRL-CAD: 03erikgreenwald * 10brlcad/NEWS: added note about the machine.h changes
20:28.58siggraphheh, bzzt
20:29.13siggraphuser-visible changes dude
20:29.59siggraphit's also a stack
20:30.10siggraphand one-line per entry
20:30.10``Erikmeh
20:30.12siggraphsheesh
20:30.28``Erikheh, is it one line, or 80?
20:31.26CIA-9BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/NEWS: improved FreeBSD 64bit support, fix AMD64 crash
20:31.40``Erikgheh
20:31.43``Erikbastage
20:32.01siggraphone line per user-visible change, less than 70 chars per line .. just like the file says..
20:32.08``Erik<-- fixes his own mistakes o.O
20:32.49``Erikheh, and allowing parallel tracing isn't worthy? :)
20:33.19``Erik<-- did it to set PARALLEL, fixing that bool bug on amd64 was a pleasant surprise...
20:33.41siggraphwhich bool bug on amd64?
20:33.45siggraphthe havoc crash?
20:33.53``Erikyes, that I'm about to close in the tracker
20:34.21siggraphheh, forgot all about checking the BITV length
20:34.56siggraphthat stupid int needs to be provided by configure
20:35.11``Erikseveral things do, machine.h should go away
20:35.18``Erikimho.
20:42.39siggraphit should
20:42.54siggraphthat's just a rather big undertaking to fully realize
20:43.10siggraphi've started on some of the pieces here, started some of it on the train
20:44.06siggrapheach change impacts several hundred files often in non-scriptable ways
20:44.54``Erik*nod*
20:45.52siggraphfinally got tkCanvBezier separated from libtk
20:47.18siggraphwhat's amazing is that non-debug worked without setting the correct BITV length
20:47.24siggraphit should have crashed
20:48.43siggraphimplies something wierd like non-debug is using 32 bit ints under the hood or something similar
20:48.48``Erikaight, if a_onehit means 'number of hits to compute, or all if 0', what's a negative value mean?
20:49.09siggraphthe comment talks about < 0
20:49.16siggraphor at least shoot.c does iirc
20:49.31siggraphbasically indicates whether to count air
20:49.57``Erik*read*
20:54.21CIA-9BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/HACKING: minor comment about keeping docs up to date, communicating changes
20:59.34``Erik<-- goes home O.o
20:59.53CIA-9BRL-CAD: 03erikgreenwald * 10brlcad/src/librt/g_metaball.c: Implemented rt_metaball_class. Fixed a_onehit handling in rt_metaball_shot.
21:00.47CIA-9BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/NEWS: forgot to mention that this fixes sf bug #1469502: FreeBSD6/amd64 rt segfault when optimization enabled
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21:50.34Open2000hello, i want to try brl-cad for windows, where i should start?
22:03.19bjorkBSDУхожу я от вас
22:03.23bjorkBSDhe put a hex on you folks ^
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Jeff Waugh - find it at freshmeat.net! Modified by Tim Riker to work with blootbot logs, split per channel, etc. irclog2html for #brlcad on 20060803

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00:43.04*** join/#brlcad IriX64 (n=IriX64@toronto-HSE-ppp4310151.sympatico.ca)
00:43.11IriX64greet.
00:44.13IriX64BrlCad on leave?
00:55.50IriX64say would any of you be able to runtime test a sparc-sun-sunos irssi?
01:18.09IriX64checking size of off_t... configure: error: cannot run test program while cross
01:18.11IriX64compiling
01:18.22IriX64why don they just make an assumption?
01:22.10IriX64i set it to 4 (if you have bigger it should still work)
01:25.11IriX64int.
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17:29.06CIA-9BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/sh/lines.sh: compute how many lines of the source code are actually blank and don't include those numbers in the totals for a slightly better/invariant approximation
17:30.23CIA-9BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/bwish/tcl.c: init array to zero
17:31.50CIA-9BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/libfb/if_X24.c: avoid crash -- if the interface is null, just return
17:32.54CIA-9BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/libfb/libfb.dsp: use IF_WGL now instead of IF_OGL, as well as if_wgl.c instead of if_ogl_win32.c
17:34.50CIA-9BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/libfb/tcl.c: add support for the new 'wgl' WindowsGL interface
17:35.22CIA-9BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/mged/Makefile.am: add support for the new 'wgl' WindowsGL interface
18:06.36CIA-9BRL-CAD: 03erikgreenwald * 10brlcad/src/librt/g_metaball.c:
18:06.36CIA-9BRL-CAD: Major fixes to bounding sphere generation.
18:06.36CIA-9BRL-CAD: Break bigger functions down a bit for reuse and easier reading.
18:06.36CIA-9BRL-CAD: Draw the bounding sphere in rt_metaball_plot (may be backed out later).
18:08.18*** join/#brlcad ``Erik (i=erik@c-69-250-155-85.hsd1.md.comcast.net)
18:14.37``Erikhrm
18:18.12``Eriksean, ya handy?
18:18.43``Erik(and is what's-his-name there with you?)
19:32.07b0efis it a goal for BRL-CAD to support a full NURBS manipulation environment with the new interface?
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20:02.14IriX64brlcad qualifies as a ton of source code :)
20:03.06b0efdoes the brl-cad NURBS tools, which are not visible in the editor, support a full range of operations on NURBS?
20:04.04IriX64define nurbs, i'm a neophyte.
20:04.50b0efIriX64: http://wikipedia.org/wiki/Nurbs
20:05.03IriX64ty.
20:06.45IriX64fer cris sake a wave modeler?
20:07.36IriX64i'll try it after i get it built again :)
20:09.10b0efIriX64: the NURBS tools are not accessible with the current editor
20:10.47IriX64thankyou but you should still be able to run them from mged
20:11.19IriX64or is that the current editor you're talking about meaning the geometry editor?
20:12.50b0efyes, you can't manipulate NURBS
20:13.05b0efyou can only import NURBS, but not do anything with them
20:13.07IriX64but you said nurbs *tools.
20:13.40b0efyes, there are apparently some NURBS tools in the code, but the are not accessible from anywhere
20:13.59IriX64try ./tool    :)
20:14.05b0efs/the are/they are/
20:14.26IriX64./tool.exe
20:19.44``Eriknurb support was a thing that was being worked on and the person like retired or something, so work stopped... thten it was reassigned to someone a few months back, and he worked on it, and then he got assigned to a different project...
20:19.49``Erikirix, you're a tool.exe.
20:20.34IriX64try it. (I am gemoetry) :)
20:20.36``Erikso, nurbs are an incomplete primitive... :)
20:21.31b0ef``Erik: yes, but is it the goal of BRL-CAD to support extensive NURBS manipulation?;)
20:21.59``Erikit was the intent a couple times in history... I believe it's a perpetual intent, but when the boss says "quit that, work on this instead"... *shrug* :)
20:22.10``Erikfeel free to code up the rest of the nurbs stuff if you want it that bad :D
20:22.24``Erikthe most recent efforts were moved into a branch in april
20:22.39IriX64in other words take it up with his boss.
20:22.44IriX64heh sorry.
20:23.43IriX64``Erik? Archer works on my windows box, but the *nix implementation, incomplete?
20:23.47b0ef``Erik: ;), it's a little out of my scope for the moment, but I just wanted to clarify if it was the goal and it is; thanks
20:24.01``Erikarcher was written for widnows, the idea to port it to *nix is being discussed...
20:24.25``Erikb0ef: http://brlcad.cvs.sourceforge.net/brlcad/brlcad/librt/g_nurb.c?hideattic=0&view=log
20:24.32``Erikbefore the dir reorg :)
20:25.44IriX64you're a good woman ``Erik. :)
20:27.50IriX64wonder if he still has lucy van pelt, he founded an industry with that floppy door latch thing.
20:32.00IriX64time for a breath of air bbiab.
20:54.14IriX64``Erik? if i wanted to share some of my stuff, must i go through cvs?
20:57.11IriX64is ftp.brlcad.org an official brl-cad server?
21:05.23``Erikuhhhh, share what stuff?
21:06.50IriX64code both binaries & sorce :)
21:10.30siggraphb0ef: full range of operations except trimmings .. that was very recently being worked on but is incomplete afaik
21:12.38siggraphb0ef: i would say the intent is to eventually add full nurbs manipulation support in the modeling environment, as well as possibly use the nurbs in-memory representation as a means to support b-rep dual representations of implicits to allow for more flexible editing operations as needed
21:13.10siggraphjust need someone that's interested enough to make it their own, get knee deep in code, and flesh it out
21:15.45siggraphIriX64: archer is inherintly cross-platform.. but it's currently expecting to be able to load a plugin and that code hasn't been hashed out really
21:16.25``Eriksean
21:16.31siggraphIriX64: if you have source changes, there are instructions in the HACKING file on making a universal diff and where it can be posted (basically to the sf.net patches tracker)
21:16.42``Erikstill near what's-his-name?
21:16.56siggraphi haven't seen em since tues
21:17.00``Erikah
21:17.05``Erikdidja see... my balls? :D
21:17.31IriX64the.... galls:)
21:18.05``Erikhttp://math.missouristate.edu/~erik/niceballs.png  hehehe
21:18.24IriX64still waiting on a reply re the server.
21:19.28siggraph``Erik: coolness
21:22.41IriX64more i look at it... maybe the march of the balls.:)
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21:33.50b0efsiggraph: that's excellent to hear;) - this would include hierarchical NURBS as well, right?. (stitching together surfaces of different resolutions)
21:39.20siggraphto properly stitch together surfaces, you really need to be able to trim (some of) them for certain operations
21:39.54siggraphotherwise, you can even mix them with implicits and they'll evaluate correctly
21:42.48b0efyes, trimming is very important;)
22:05.22Twingyyou don't need trimming to stitch together surface
22:06.20Twingyyou can do it with knot insertion using a third surface
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22:10.42b0efTwingy: ah, you're the maintainer of nurbana;)
22:13.27Twingyor lack there of
22:13.41b0efwell, yeah, one day;)
22:13.53b0efyou should publish your paypal account;)
22:14.33Twingynurbana was a learning experience
22:17.00b0efyou intend to pursue it with BRL-CAD?
22:17.39Twingygiven the projects I'm currently involved with (Rocketry, GCAM, House Work) I'm afraid it won't happen
22:18.52b0efsad; NURBS is really lacking in the free software world
22:19.03b0efsiggraph: have you decided on gtk+ yet?;)
22:19.09siggraphheh
22:19.12b0efhehe
22:19.20b0efindeed
22:19.22pra5adsiggraph: try out the full body DDR?
22:19.44siggraphpra5ad: they had that a couple years ago
22:19.56pra5adis it production quality now?
22:21.16Twingyrunning a freebsd vm to do all my development on my mac is bliss
22:22.23siggraphpra5ad: pretty much
22:22.37siggraphthere was much cooler stuff than that in emerging tech, though
22:22.59TwingyI can embrace apple as my desktop machine of choice
22:23.21pra5adoh bice
22:23.24pra5adnice*
22:24.15Twingyall on the same laptop
22:27.49``Erikdoes it have a serial port? or do you have a usb/serial converter?
22:28.52``Erik(or are you driving the programmer on a bsd or winderz box and just generating hex images on the lappie?)
22:29.13TwingyI ordered 2 yesterday
22:29.20Twingyseriolo
22:29.26Twingy$17 a piece
22:29.41Twingymy pair of semitech's are only supports by winbloze
22:30.06``ErikI bought one a while back supported on winderz and mac, but lacking decent serial devices, haven't gotten it working yet
22:30.27TwingyI'm going to use mine with my garmin etrex
22:30.51``Erikooh, yeah, I got a legend with a serial cable somewhere...
22:31.38TwingyI just hope our parallels licenses come in before mine expires in 12 days
22:33.01``Erik<-- likes shelling into a fbsd box to do dev, would rather avoid being in the same room as all the noise and heat from compiling :)
22:33.57Twingydoesn't work so well when you're in the middle of desert in yuma
22:34.42``Eriktrue
22:40.24TwingyI'm saving so much money by eating $3 microwavable lunches
22:40.51``ErikI spent $25 on eating out last month, heh
22:40.55TwingyI get cranky when I don't eat
22:41.23``Erikme, too, I even got cranky in channel yesterday hehehehe
22:41.53``Erikcombination of no food, lack of caffeine, and totally wrong documentation
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Jeff Waugh - find it at freshmeat.net! Modified by Tim Riker to work with blootbot logs, split per channel, etc. irclog2html for #brlcad on 20060804

irclog2html for #brlcad on 20060804

02:22.20IriX64windows media player now recognizes jump drive and plays from it, slick, job done moose, gromph.
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03:34.57noidea697Hi all, I'm learning BRLCAD and trying to create a hollow trc shape like a funnel with a wall thickness. I cannot seem to get the Boolean operations correct. Sorry to be such a pain.  
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15:46.54CIA-9BRL-CAD: 03erikgreenwald * 10brlcad/src/librt/g_metaball.c:
15:46.54CIA-9BRL-CAD: Fixed point value function (f^2/r^2 instead of f/r^2). Fixed steppers
15:46.54CIA-9BRL-CAD: "dist left" concept. (those two fix 'large' object rendering). Renamed
15:46.54CIA-9BRL-CAD: and deleted variables for readability.
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20:06.00*** topic/#brlcad by brlcad -> http://brlcad.org/ || BRL-CAD is an open source solid modeling software suite || Developers needed! Read the HACKING file for details on getting involved
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Jeff Waugh - find it at freshmeat.net! Modified by Tim Riker to work with blootbot logs, split per channel, etc. irclog2html for #brlcad on 20060805

irclog2html for #brlcad on 20060805

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04:49.09Twingyhttp://js.cx/~justin/alumaforge1/
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11:24.10brlcadheh, nifty
11:41.01``Erikcool, a successful button
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18:36.15IriX64in conversation more things come.
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19:01.47IriX64ldconfig: line 1 command not found??????
19:02.21IriX64errr libtool ...
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19:55.26brlcadcompile error?
19:57.21IriX64yeah.
19:58.22IriX64err install time.
20:03.53``Erikdid you unbreak src/mged, sean?
20:04.05``Eriklike, dm-tk.c or something?
20:04.13brlcadhmm
20:04.16brlcadthat got committed?
20:04.23``Erikit was in the Makefile.am
20:04.26``Erikbut the src file was not there
20:04.26brlcadahhh
20:04.33``ErikI touched it to get the build to work on my local system
20:04.45``Erikbut most folk will just throw their hands int he air and say brlcad sucks cuz it won't compile
20:05.03brlcadyeah, i've got like 3 threads of mods going on at once in the same checkout, so the commits have been careful piecemeal
20:05.11brlcadthe rest should be going in today
20:05.14brlcadworking on it all now
20:05.19IriX64brlcad sucks cause it wont compile on my coleco :)
20:05.40``Erikum, actually, irix, it probably would...
20:05.41``Erik:)
20:05.48``Erikcolecos run cp/m on a z80 last I looked
20:05.58IriX64given a decent compiler ... i agree :)
20:06.05brlcad``Erik: i only know of one.. that does the throwing their hands up bit without even reading the error message
20:06.39``Erikheh
20:06.56``Erikstill ain't good to have a broken cvs repo, especially without a -stable branch
20:10.05brlcadyep
20:11.00brlcadhad I had internet more consistently, I would have just had multiple checkouts but often went half the day so I just churned through different stuff all at once
20:19.09``Erikwithout even branching, bastage
20:20.09``Erikanyways, that was the only breakage I saw, went in with a wgl commit
20:21.22brlcadyep, that was why
20:21.46brlcadthe wgl stuff is an attempt to untangle the mess bob has in there with the ogl interface
20:22.01brlcadi'm sure the windows build is busted right now
20:23.24``Erikhrmph, mebbe a sit-together between him and a *nix weenie is needed
20:35.39brlcadnah, it's not really expertise, he just doesn't care really about that sort of stuff .. easiest fix is his method, no matter how messy ..
20:37.22``Erikheh
20:38.31``Erikif he breaks bsd, I'll break it right back. ;D
20:40.49brlcadhe generally doesn't.. mostly riddles the code with #ifdef PLATFORM junk
20:56.20``Erik#ifdef WINDOWS, not #ifdef HAVE_SOMETHING ?
21:03.56brlcadyep
21:04.30brlcadjust do a search on _WIN32 and you'll see his stuff :)
21:04.46brlcadthat's like a laundry to-do list
21:05.32brlcadthough some of it predates them
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Jeff Waugh - find it at freshmeat.net! Modified by Tim Riker to work with blootbot logs, split per channel, etc. irclog2html for #brlcad on 20060806

irclog2html for #brlcad on 20060806

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15:00.04CIA-9BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/other/jove/findcom.c: quell warnings about implicit declarations
15:17.42``Erikrm -rf src/other/jove
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15:34.27CIA-9BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/doc/PROJECTS:
15:34.27CIA-9BRL-CAD: BRL-CAD is comprised of several isolatable projects that have specific
15:34.27CIA-9BRL-CAD: distinguishing qualities of utility that make them useful as
15:34.27CIA-9BRL-CAD: stand-alone projects to a wide audience of users. In some cases,
15:34.27CIA-9BRL-CAD: these projects may be independently maintained and are sometimes
15:34.28CIA-9BRL-CAD: independently distributed. These projects are described in this file.
15:34.55CIA-9BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/doc/Makefile.am: add PROJECTS and IDEAS to the list of documentation
15:38.13CIA-9BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/doc/PROJECTS: clean up the introductory description paragraph a little
15:42.27CIA-9BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/doc/PROJECTS: spel chek
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Jeff Waugh - find it at freshmeat.net! Modified by Tim Riker to work with blootbot logs, split per channel, etc. irclog2html for #brlcad on 20060807

irclog2html for #brlcad on 20060807

02:53.31IriX64brlcad.exe ... sweet.;)
03:36.48IriX64just rename mged.exe to brlcad.exe :)
03:37.19IriX64sigh, nobody called me on it so i gave.:)
03:54.48brlcadmged isn't worthy to be called brlcad.exe
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10:00.09CIA-9BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/conv/off/Makefile.am: s/LIBRT/RT/
10:01.59CIA-9BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/mged/Makefile.am: dm-tk.c isn't ready yet
10:17.02CIA-9BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/ (include/light.h src/liboptical/sh_light.c): revert the unlimited lights change briefly until it is determined why they are not working for area light sources
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14:09.30CIA-9BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/include/dm.h: unnecesary IF_OGL define
15:35.22CIA-9BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/include/dm.h: revert, wrong edited dm.h.. not yet ready for the tk interface
15:54.44``Erikthe girl is good
15:55.15``ErikI wonder how much writing is done by her uncredited band
16:05.11CIA-9BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/ (21 files in 13 dirs): add explicit code for DM_WGL and IF_WGL for Windows GL support instead of piggybacking off of the OGL interface
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16:57.06CIA-9BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/ (4 files in 3 dirs): remove the if_ogl_win32.c interface .. Windows platforms should now be using the if_wgl.c interface instead
17:26.54CIA-9BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/misc/win32-msvc7/libdm/libdm.vcproj: windows uses dm-wgl.c now, not dm-ogl_win.c .. the latter exists no more
17:27.35CIA-9BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/misc/win32-msvc7/mged/mged.vcproj: compile the new dm-wgl.c interface instead of dm-ogl.c now on Windows
17:29.38CIA-9BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/mged/dm-wgl.c: add a new dm-wgl.c interface for windows to use instead of piggypacking off of the ogl interface
17:32.50CIA-9BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/libdm/dm-glx.c: remove the old DM_OGL hack on the GLX interface.. move towards decoupling the two
17:38.15CIA-9BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/mged/dm-ogl.c: no longer need the _WIN32 section, they get their own dm-wgl.c interface
17:44.00CIA-9BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/mged/mged_dm.h: no longer need the ogl_ogl externs..
17:47.09CIA-9BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/remrt/Makefile.am: remrt does use libfb directly and needs to declare the dependency even if another dependency also uses it. libtool is supposed to sort it all out
17:55.55CIA-9BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/ (5 files in 2 dirs): IF_4D interface is not really shipped any more, don't talk about it
17:57.51CIA-9BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/libfb/ (Makefile.am if_4d-old.c): mark the if_4d-old interface as now obsolete, no longer shipping the sources leaving it to cvs history
18:11.17CIA-9BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/libfb/if_ogl.c: reword away if_4d.c
19:11.01IriX64weet weet all reet. :)
19:11.28IriX64hey man if the crease comes outta my peg leg pants, the world will end :)
19:17.26IriX64l8r
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20:22.20CIA-9BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/ (5 files in 4 dirs): decouple IF_X from the other framebuffer interfaces (ogl and wgl in particular). Windows should not define IF_X unless they want the X11 interface.
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21:43.17CIA-9BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/include/dm-X.h: cleanup, ws
21:48.39CIA-9BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/include/dm_xvars.h:
21:48.39CIA-9BRL-CAD: collapse the two structures into one, even though the structure really should
21:48.39CIA-9BRL-CAD: NOT be serving double-duty and be compile-time variable-width.. doesn't allow
21:48.39CIA-9BRL-CAD: multiple interfaces to be simultaneously compiled. should absorb the interface
21:48.39CIA-9BRL-CAD: into dm-X.h and friends at some point.
21:49.32CIA-9BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/libdm/dm_obj.c: header cleanup, get rid of _WIN32
21:50.04CIA-9BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/mged/ (dm-X.c dm-ogl.c dm-wgl.c): ws
21:50.49CIA-9BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/mged/dm-generic.c: header cleanup, ws
21:51.22CIA-9BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/mged/doevent.c: ws
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23:02.32Twingyany news on the parallels licenses?
Jeff Waugh - find it at freshmeat.net! Modified by Tim Riker to work with blootbot logs, split per channel, etc. irclog2html for #brlcad on 20060808

irclog2html for #brlcad on 20060808

00:37.38IriX644 hrs i should have a cassie 4.1.1 :)
00:50.11CIA-9BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/misc/win32-msvc7/mged/mged.vcproj: don't define DM_X, should be only using DM_WGL now on Windows
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00:58.07CIA-9BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/libdm/ (dm-generic.c dm_obj.c libdm.dsp query.c tcl.c): decouple DM_X from the other display manager interfaces, clean up the preprocessor logic so Windows does not need to declare it
01:21.33IriX64how long do we wait before we can post after a CIA-9 post?
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01:26.47IriX64reboot, back later.
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01:39.54IriX64Did I get an answer? Time after CIA-9 posts before mere mortals can post again?
02:32.15brlcadIriX64: don't understand the question
02:33.11brlcadCIA merely posts a notification when a CVS commit is performed to the source repository, so everyone knows exactly who is doing what and when generally speaking
02:35.40CIA-9BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/configure.ac: check for pipe()
02:43.44IriX64just thought i was interefering with development.
02:44.14IriX64thought there was a protocol of some type here.
02:50.46brlcadonly when you go on your pasting rampages
02:52.20brlcadif there's design or development discussions going on, off-topic and just basic "chit-chat" chatter would be frowned upon but not when we're like this
02:52.40IriX64thanks for the explanation.
02:52.42brlcadrelatively low energy in the channel, simple to manage.. nobody has to wade through to get a word in
02:53.07IriX64my diff is huge :)
02:53.35IriX64aieeeee patch broke ;)
02:55.09IriX649 minuts? thought my system was faster than that.
02:55.21CIA-9BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/mged/ (10 files): decouple DM_X from the other display manager interfaces, clean up the preprocessor logic so Windows does not need to declare DM_X but also to avoid using _WIN32 where possible as well.
02:55.50brlcadyou ever figure out why your wallclock counts are so low?
02:56.04IriX64didnt want to do the math.
02:56.41IriX64lets see what bench has to say.
02:59.05brlcadyour rtfm was fine
02:59.16brlcadbut it is WAY off your wallclock count, which isn't right
02:59.57IriX64think i fixed it doing a raytrace right now.
03:00.08brlcadimplies something systemic is abnormal with your system
03:00.19IriX64hrmmph problem is bench is running too.
03:00.44brlcadlike it's abnormally busy doing way too many other things while the benchmark is running, or you have several benchmarks running simultaneously
03:01.27IriX64when are you going to use your overlap tool to fix the overlaps in havoc?
03:02.58IriX64benching bldg391 whil i'm raytracing havoc, get real.
03:03.41brlcadfixing havoc is left as an exercise for someone in the community
03:05.09IriX64496829 rays in 12.38 secs = 40147.80 rays/sec (RTFM) and 496829 rays in 242.18 secs = 2051.49 rays/sec (Wallclock) that better?
03:05.33IriX64and bench just fixished.
03:06.32IriX642844 times faster than the 780. not bad i guess.
03:08.05IriX64now how the heck did translate break (sigh)
03:10.37IriX64what do you *mean its the shift key not the ctrl key? (I'm in ramble on mode)
03:11.16IriX64got them backwards thats all ill just change the docs, cheap fix. :)
03:11.17brlcadno that's not better
03:11.37brlcadthe rays/sec for wallclock shouldn't be more than 10% different from the RTFM rays/sec
03:11.54IriX64explain why.
03:12.36brlcadyou're currently at about 2000% different
03:12.43Twingycause you aint running anything else
03:12.50brlcadi can't explain why without seeing what's going on
03:12.52IriX64but explain how its supposed to be 10%
03:12.53Twingybrlcad, news on parallels licenses?
03:12.57brlcaddoes it actually take 242 seconds to raytrace?
03:13.03IriX64yes
03:13.17brlcadTwingy: beats me, i haven't been in to the office since well before siggy
03:13.29Twingyare you on vacation?
03:13.47brlcadnot really
03:13.50brlcadjust haven't been back
03:13.56brlcadit's only been a day
03:14.16Twingybut darlene has the order right?
03:15.22Twingyif not I'll have her order one for me
03:16.33IriX64perhaps itll help if we compare output devices?
03:17.08brlcadi have no idea what the status is
03:19.17Twingyk, if Wendy comaplains I will get Drew to order for me
03:21.47brlcadIriX64: 9 chances out of 10, it's not a brl-cad configuration issue
03:21.59brlcadit's something going on with your system
03:22.10brlcadrun top or something to see what's eating up cpu cycles
03:25.15IriX64at the moment loadavg is 0%
03:25.46brlcadi find that hard to believe
03:25.50brlcadwhat does uptime say?
03:25.57IriX64hey irc takes nothing.
03:26.04IriX64nothing else going on.
03:26.20IriX64let me check taskmanager.
03:26.31brlcadooh, you're on windows?
03:26.31IriX64both agree 0-1% load.
03:26.42IriX64sorta
03:26.56brlcadsofta?  you either are or aren't :)
03:27.07IriX64do a ver on me.
03:27.27brlcadthat doesn't tell me anything about what kernel/OS you're running
03:27.27IriX64*nix high on windows. :)
03:27.40brlcadonly you know that
03:28.02brlcadjust by the fact that you have taskmanager though pretty much says it
03:28.07IriX64all right windows xp base running cygwin_nt
03:28.15brlcadfair enough
03:28.21Twingyand your nickname is Irix64 *boggle*
03:28.29IriX64you picked it.
03:28.37brlcadi suspect you do have hidden processes running that are hiding themselves from the taskmanager
03:28.47brlcadrather cpu-intensive ones
03:28.47IriX64no way
03:28.56IriX64i would know
03:28.58brlcadheh
03:29.00IriX64err
03:29.06brlcadand how praytell would you know?
03:29.13IriX64yah groaner :)
03:29.22brlcadyou have a massive indicator right there with the performance number
03:29.28brlcadmassive massive descrepancy
03:29.44IriX64on my system *everything that runs is given a name and entered into task manager
03:29.45brlcadtis the nature of much spyware
03:30.03IriX64no empahtically no.
03:30.04brlcadnah, you can run apps that are hidden from taskmanager
03:30.10brlcadused to do that back in the day
03:30.12IriX64not *here.
03:30.21TwingyI think you should install parallels rather than arguing with IriX64
03:30.30brlcadyou're on windows, it's possible
03:30.50IriX64what are parallels?
03:31.06IriX64ok brlcad its possible.
03:31.08brlcadheck, it could even be a virus infected dll or other system-level injection
03:31.21brlcadthat could go completely undetected
03:31.29IriX64what do *you raytrace to?
03:31.41brlcadparallels is a virtual machine
03:31.52IriX64vmware style?
03:31.52brlcadsort of like vmware
03:31.52brlcadbut cheaper
03:32.01brlcadless developer-feature-filled
03:32.11IriX64got os/2 warp 4 to run on vmware but what a slug.
03:32.12brlcadbut capable of running multiple simultaneous OS images
03:33.33IriX64i'm told brlcad can bench press three of ``Erik :)
03:35.12brlcadnot from the looks of his belly recently :) *ahem*
03:44.49IriX64you've seen my belly? *shrug* I don't hide it.
03:45.00IriX64:)
03:45.44IriX64you're wondering about me lets get peronal, I'm Mario and i'm class of 54.
03:46.07IriX64errrr personal too. :)
03:46.57brlcadactually i meant erik's but good to know mario
03:47.06IriX64brlcad i put you in your early 40's?
03:47.32brlcadnah, i'm a young whipper snapper
03:47.36brlcadat least that's what I tell myself
03:47.47IriX64hah so do I.:)
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03:52.08IriX64_my night at the opera, see if you can find me.
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04:08.47IriX64back to shift grips :)
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04:18.14IriX64IriX64_: Doofus you said shift grips :)
04:25.38IriX64we were talking about rtfm to wallclock times, whats the ratio?
04:26.53CIA-9BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/BUGS: debugbu 2 immediately reports a bu_vls_free() error.. apparently been a problem since 4.5 days at least (bug found in doc/html/manuals/mged/bugs)
04:27.47IriX64bug i can bring up two instances of mged (or is this by design?)
04:28.18CIA-9BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/doc/html/manuals/mged/ (Makefile.am bugs): get rid of doc/html/manuals/mged/bugs .. the main bug in there was verified to still be a problem and was added to the BUGS file. either way, we don't need this old 'bugs' file any more.
04:31.05IriX64may i send you my mged.exe?
04:32.13IriX64you think only cvs people are capable of contributing?
04:34.13brlcadthe rtfm rays/sec and the wallclock rays/sec should be within 10% of each otehr, so a ratio of .. 9:10 or thereabouts?
04:34.47brlcadbeing able to run multiple mgeds is definitely by design
04:36.04IriX649:10? lets define this, a ray is considered finished when?
04:37.18brlcadthere's documentation on the various values that I'd rather not describe over irc .. maybe read the benchmark.tr nroff document if you *really* want to know
04:37.35brlcadbut suffice it to say that they should NOT be that different rays/sec if everything is "normal"
04:37.51IriX64*really* yes.
04:39.49brlcadrtfm takes into consideration several aspects outside of your control like how long it takes a process to start up only counting the CPU time that you are actually allocated
04:40.17brlcadwallclock time counts the amount of actual time elapsed as measured by a clock
04:41.16IriX64how do you measure cpu time what function please clock() or time()?
04:41.20brlcadthose shouldn't only be within 10% .. they should be nearly identical .. but some systems are better than others and there's some minor variance based on how busy systems are, how long the context switches are, etc
04:41.53IriX64why dont i just look in the code :)
04:43.47brlcadwith yours as big as it is, it's pointing a big finger at there being something serious going on like something hogging the cpu or a bug in the wallclock computation code
04:44.04brlcadthe latter isn't the case as you mentioned that's about how long it takes
04:44.32brlcadwhich is incredible as that is very very slow for the benchmark images
04:44.43brlcadthey should just take a few seconds per frame
04:47.11IriX64err brlcad: thats the output of raytraceing while actually rendering the image to the tube quite fast considering what its doing.
04:47.48brlcadit should just take a few seconds to fully generate the image
04:48.03IriX64its a solid model brlcad think.
04:49.11IriX64i should send you a screen shot of my screen with one rendered, if i knew how i would.
04:49.55IriX64be back in a moment my attention is required outside.
04:52.04brlcadi never said it wasn't a solid model
04:52.16brlcadnever said that I doubt it renders incorrectly either
04:52.31brlcads/incorrectly/correctly/
04:52.46brlcadthe only thing wrong is the performance.. that is WAY too slow
04:53.24brlcadunless you're running XP on a 486 or something slower
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05:02.04CIA-9BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/doc/html/manuals/mged/ (mug mug_camo): get rid of the old path
05:03.23CIA-9BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/doc/mged.tr: get rid of the old path
05:05.44IriX64_486???
05:05.55IriX64_they still make those?
05:05.57IriX64_:)
05:07.19IriX64_ever hear of the dos game doom?
05:07.47IriX64_music and all, vmware suck my arse with your face :)
05:09.07IriX64_hairy virtualizing interrupt and dma and sundry hardware the game expects.
05:15.55CIA-9BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/ (14 files in 7 dirs): get rid of the old 'cad' path references/assumptions
05:16.36IriX64_simple concept really, you provide a dos environment and any dos program that expects a certain environment usually probes irq's and dma's and such if you feel the probe map it to whats really there if the program doesn't probe try to provide "generic" hardware.
05:30.08CIA-9BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/libdm/dm-ogl_win.c: removed the replaced file. dm-ogl_win.c is no more, replaced by the dm-wgl.c interface file.
05:42.11CIA-9BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/libtclcad/libtclcad.dsp: take a manual stab at an initial msvc build file for libtclcad (needed for the sketch editor)
05:49.10CIA-9BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/libsysv/Makefile.am: make vers.c correctly rebuild if a source file changes
05:49.29CIA-9BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/libtclcad/Makefile.am: add the new windows build file to the dist
05:51.42CIA-9BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/misc/win32-msvc/brlcad.dsw: add libtclcad to the msvc brlcad dll build workspace
05:55.59CIA-9BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/mged/attach.c: looks like bezier canvas support should now be available for both windows studio build projects. libtclcad should build sans tk sources now, try enabling it.
05:57.18CIA-9BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/mged/attach.c: remove apparently dead code, 'do_2nd_attach_prompt()'
06:08.50CIA-9BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/mged/ (dm-X.c dm-ogl.c dm-wgl.c mged_dm.h): move the common_dm() decl over to mged_dm.h
06:16.16CIA-9BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/mged/ (chgview.c cmd.c vrlink.c): enable the 'pov' command, getting rid of the peculiar undocumented TCP_FILES define. move cmd_pov over to chgview.c like the comment suggests. (note that the command guts are over in librt)
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06:47.37CIA-9BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/libfb/ (26 files): get rid of the libfb-specific _LOCAL_ macro, instead using HIDDEN like everyone else (currently still provided by machine.h)
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16:37.43CIA-9BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/tclscripts/mged/callbacks.tcl: quell warnings about mged_display not being set, make sure the variables even exist
16:44.11CIA-9BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/mged/edsol.c:
16:44.11CIA-9BRL-CAD: add a lot of checks for valid pointers as part of isolating a 'P' binding crash
16:44.11CIA-9BRL-CAD: bug (sf bug 1375751: P shuts down mged). the crash was the result of a bus
16:44.11CIA-9BRL-CAD: error inside of Tcl_AppendResult of all places, where the second
16:44.11CIA-9BRL-CAD: Tcl_AppendResult() after the one inside not_state() would cause a crash. this
16:44.14CIA-9BRL-CAD: may indicate some other interp initialization problem, but the fix in place does
16:44.16CIA-9BRL-CAD: seem to keep things going nicely.
16:56.18``Erikhm
16:58.11CIA-9BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/mged/chgtree.c: not_state() now reports the desired state too, so no need for the extra printing
16:59.06CIA-9BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/mged/buttons.c: print out the expected/desired state so the user has a clue as to what to do to resolve the problem when not in the right editing mode.
17:00.16CIA-9BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/mged/edsol.c: not_state now reports the desired state, so no need to print a message. be consistent with the printing and the command name category (sedit).
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17:02.03CIA-9BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/NEWS: fixed mged crash on P binding when not in edit mode. this fixes sf bug 1375751 (P shuts down mged) reported by bob2.
18:02.52CIA-9BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/ (include/light.h src/liboptical/sh_light.c): incremental update this time.. change MAX_LIGHT_SAMPLES to SOME_LIGHT_SAMPLES
18:07.20*** join/#brlcad IriX64 (n=IriX64@toronto-HSE-ppp4303658.sympatico.ca)
18:08.15IriX64what was that about a pencil tapping your teeth?
18:08.42IriX64easy,easy,money and your chicks for free, right fatso :)
18:09.49IriX64the doc says it's good for you ;)
18:10.59IriX64should look that formula up, make some easy money, only how do i get Canada to tap their teeth with a lead pencil?
18:13.53IriX64Captains mess, anyone ;)
18:14.45IriX64mater and pater are here, be back in a bit.
18:23.03CIA-9BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/misc/Makefile.defs: be sure to delete static and other 'regular' or noinst libraries during a make noprod
18:24.10IriX64visit successfull :)
18:29.01CIA-9BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/ (include/light.h src/liboptical/sh_light.c): next step in the incremental update, dynamically allocate the light sample points array instead of using a fixed size.
18:33.47IriX64brlcad: i still can't get this math right, 2.61 secs RTFM 56.97 secs wallclock.
18:34.18IriX64havoc.g
18:35.13IriX64but its consistent across runs.
18:37.14IriX64lets try bldg391.
18:38.39IriX641.25 rtfm 11.91 wallclock
18:39.37IriX64lets try the deuce and a 1/2
18:51.10IriX645.56 rtfm 93.55 wallclock
18:52.13IriX64whats your e-mail, ill send you a .jpg shot of my screen.
18:54.01IriX64pastebin doesn't allow jpgs.
18:54.10brlcadjpg of your screen isn't useful
18:54.24IriX64what do you need to help out here?
18:55.14brlcadI'd start by installing some antivirus and antispyware software and see what all comes up
18:55.26IriX64all right.
18:56.29brlcadclamAV is free, not sure how good their antispyware is though
18:56.45IriX64truck looks good though, nice green field its sitting on.
18:57.43IriX64gold tipped exhaust pipe... nothings to good for the military. :)
18:57.45brlcadthis looks good: http://www.spywareterminator.com/
18:58.07IriX64i'll try mcaffee first.
18:59.08brlcadmcafee sells a separate anti-spyware product if all you have is their antivirus
18:59.28brlcadvirus will be good to check for .. but should be sure to check for both
18:59.33IriX64think i bought the full package, ill dig it out and see.
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19:19.08IriX64look brlcad: it takes time to draw an image on the screen, theres no way your 10% figure can apply.
19:22.58IriX64ill either dcc send you a screenshot with the figures on it or ill e-mail it to you.
19:23.09IriX64and the picture on it.
19:24.23IriX64e-mail address?
19:24.55IriX64everythings clearly visible.
19:25.23brlcadif it takes 20x the ray-trace time, it would imply a serious bug
19:25.40brlcadand I've run ray-traces on windows and don't see that sort of different
19:26.17IriX64all right how long does *yours take to draw the m35 on your screen, im talking about the solid model picture, not the wire frame.
19:26.46IriX64err pardon? windows?
19:26.47brlcadhere's what moss looks like for me: 759710.95 rays/sec (RTFM)  748857.07 rays/sec (wallclock)
19:27.11IriX64it renders that fast?
19:27.29IriX64im not talking make benchmark here.
19:27.47IriX64thats the shot summary im getting my numbers from.
19:28.11brlcadthis has nothing to do with the model or benchmark
19:28.25brlcadit's just relative performance numbers
19:28.32brlcaddoesn't matter what model either
19:28.56IriX64screw its accuarate i used a stop watch. off by maybe a second or two but its accyrate.
19:29.06IriX64accurate too.
19:29.24brlcadsure, it's accurate
19:29.27IriX64the math, she's good :)
19:29.39brlcadit's not once been a question to ME whether the values were being computed correctly
19:29.45brlcadthis is pretty stable code
19:30.09IriX64*shrug* my code becomes stable with age too :)
19:30.25brlcadwhich is exactly why it points at something wrong with your system, why must I keep repeating this?? :)
19:30.38brlcadi personally don't really care
19:30.42brlcadit's your system
19:30.49brlcadbut it does indicate some serious problem
19:31.03IriX64all right send me the pix of moss (mario.dulisse2@sympatico.ca)
19:31.04brlcadnot a problem with brl-cad or how the ray-trace runs
19:31.14brlcador what the results look like
19:31.19brlcadthat is ALL fine
19:31.26brlcadwhat is wrong is how slow/fast it's running for you
19:31.51brlcadyou're not going to SEE anything related to this problem with a pix
19:31.59brlcadother than it rendering slow
19:32.13brlcadis this not clear??
19:32.18IriX64you expect the pix to just appear?
19:32.36IriX64drawing an image on the tube can not be that fast.
19:33.10brlcadsome images are pretty much immediate, others not more than a few seconds
19:33.19brlcadyou're looking at several minutes on your system
19:34.17brlcadyou mentioned m35 rendering - how long does it take m35 to raytrace into a 512x512 window?
19:34.39IriX64yes anyway im happy thanks, ill get that mcaffee dug out. lost everything in a crash 3 months ago and am slow to getting around to restoring some things.
19:35.18brlcad*shrug* .. if it is systemic, it means something else basically has control of your system :)
19:36.22IriX64512x512 just a sec
19:36.47brlcadyou mentioned cygwin, that could be causing a big performance penalty of some sort -- haven't looked at the numbers there in a while
19:37.01IriX6465.17 wallclock and 3.84 rtfm.
19:37.50brlcadsee -- that means it only spent 4 seconds on the cpu .. but for "some" reason more than a minute elapsed from the time the ray-trace began until it completed
19:38.21brlcadthere wasn't more than 3.84 seconds worth of work, but something slowed it down
19:38.29IriX64of course because the pixels have to be lit or turned off sheesh.
19:38.39brlcadthat could be a virus, spyware, cygwin.. something else
19:39.03brlcadi'd be surprised if cygwin was _that_ bad at I/O
19:39.29IriX64you using a hardware x?
19:40.49IriX64rember there two layers of graphics here windows and xserver althought the screens are seamless theres still graphic overhead to contend with.
19:43.08IriX64need a smoke be back shortly.
19:43.11brlcadthere's not any configuration setup that should have a discrepancy as large as yours is :)
19:46.23``Erik*yawn*
19:47.43``Erikheh, sean, I did an update and now libfb doesn't want to compile, it's seeing two do_event()s defined, and HIDDEN is reducing to /***/ instead of static o.O what'd you do tot he thing?
19:48.26``Erik<-- hacked his if_X.c if_wgl.c and if_glx.c to change the func name to like do_X_event() or do_wgl_event depending on file.. think that would be worth a commit?
19:48.46brlcad``Erik: yeah, I know .. i have a fix for that here
19:49.38brlcadthere's a few of them
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20:02.35IriX64brlcad: you are a very patient man, thanks for the input.
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22:07.19CIA-9BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/liboptical/sh_light.c: final mod to allow for arbitrary counts of light point samples. the point sample array is allocated in batches of SOME_LIGHT_SAMPLES.
22:16.46CIA-9BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/liboptical/sh_stack.c: avoid debug mode namespace conflicts with libfb's stack interface (where HIDDEN becomes /**/)
22:16.56CIA-9BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/liboptical/sh_null.c: avoid debug mode namespace conflicts with libfb's null interface (where HIDDEN becomes /**/)
22:17.48``Eriksean, you doing the 'week off after siggraph' thing?
22:18.44dtidrow_workc'mon, SIGGRAPH _is_ a week off  ;-)
22:18.59dtidrow_work'cept for the parties...
22:19.03``Erikheh
22:19.09``Erikyeah, last year, I hurt my ankle pretty bad
22:19.22``Erikfalling down, uh, stairs, at a nightclub, for an afterparty
22:19.22``Erikheh
22:19.28``Erik<-- retarded
22:19.30dtidrow_workwhich one?
22:19.51``Erikhrm? which club? or which party?
22:19.58``Erikit was at 'the mayan' in downtown la
22:19.59dtidrow_workwhich party
22:20.08``ErikI don't remember who was throwing it
22:20.19``Eriksome flyers were handed out
22:20.22``Eriklike the acm one or something
22:20.25dtidrow_workthat's where the chapters party was, right?
22:20.32``Erikyeah, I think that was it
22:20.35``Erikthat sounds familiar
22:20.37dtidrow_workk
22:20.43dtidrow_workwas there too  :-)
22:20.51``Erikwith the stirppers dancing on the boxes?
22:20.54``Erik'cept they didn't strip
22:20.55``Erikheh
22:21.02dtidrow_workyeah
22:21.07``Erikand the big circular thing they were playing crap on
22:21.15``Erik<-- stayed there pretty late
22:21.17dtidrow_workwe nicknamed them the 'anime dancers'  :-)
22:21.27``Eriky'know the ampitheater seating on the upper level?
22:21.31dtidrow_workyep
22:21.41``ErikI was walking down those, hit a corner of a stemp with my heal trying to get into the seating
22:21.47dtidrow_workouch
22:21.54``Erikblack on black, smoke, dark, vodka... bad mojo
22:22.07dtidrow_workyep
22:22.17``Erikcame down on my ankle and butt, was hobbling out, coulnd't move it the next morning
22:22.35``Erikwhen I got a 5am call to fix a diskless cluster
22:22.37dtidrow_workwas awfully expensive this year - $7 for a Sam Adams
22:22.46``Erikew
22:22.47dtidrow_workthat's one bottle
22:22.59``Erikhah, go down the street and buy a 6 for less, hah
22:23.13dtidrow_workI can get a six-pack of them for $7.50
22:23.41``Erikhuh, I've seen sam cheaper
22:23.43dtidrow_workwas sorely tempted to go on the brewery tour, as the brewery was only about 5-6 miles away from my hotel
22:24.02``Erikheh
22:24.08``Erikthis year?
22:24.12dtidrow_workyep
22:24.18dtidrow_workBoston
22:24.30``ErikI wanted to go, but there was a clamp put down on all travel that I couldn't squirm out from under
22:24.36dtidrow_workick
22:24.36``Erikso I had to call in, cancel my hotel reservation, etc
22:24.42``Eriksucked
22:24.50dtidrow_workindeed
22:25.06``Eriknow they're trying to send me to utah for some realtime raytracing convention
22:25.44dtidrow_workthere were several papers about that this year, or maybe courses
22:26.17``Erikthere have been for a while
22:26.20``Erikand all the same players, heh
22:26.27``Erikslusallek, etc
22:29.20dtidrow_worklol
22:35.18dtidrow_workguess he's totally distracted
22:36.24``Erikhe must have a sexy piece of code keeping him distracted
22:37.05dtidrow_workheh
22:47.52CIA-9BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/libfb/ (if_X.c if_ogl.c if_wgl.c): avoid debug mode namespace conflicts when multiple interfaces are compiled and HIDDEN becomes /**/)
22:49.09brlcadmm.. sexy code indeed
22:49.52brlcad``Erik: not the entire week
22:50.10brlcadi'm on a coding roll on many fronts
22:50.22``Erikah, I was hoping in your aid in something... I can wait if you'd rather not be arsed with my issues :)
22:50.30brlcadit'll be all over once I go in, so I'm going with the flow
22:51.37brlcadfeel free to ask, if it's too complicated I'll defer, but not likely
22:51.37``Erik(mem leak in my shot routine, I not grokin' something)
22:51.59brlcadset bu_debug to 2
22:52.39brlcadbasic bounds checks, won't catch the leak of course, but it's a start
22:54.28``Erikthat's a lot of info
22:55.48``Eriknothing about allocations and deallocations, though
23:11.28brlcadhmm.. shouldn't be "a lot" .. note that one flag is for rt_debug, another for bn, and another for bu
23:12.20brlcadi mean, it'll be a lot of messages .. the ones that are provided during bu_malloc/bu_free/etc
23:32.35IriX64try my_free(char *ptr) {free(ptr);ptr=NULL;}
23:34.40IriX64or my_free(char *ptr){if(ptr){free(ptr);ptr=NULL}}
23:38.11IriX64rtshot or show shot ``Erik?
23:41.56IriX64in rtshot you have two allocs but no free's. kosher?
23:47.36IriX64sigh my memory leaks constantly, silicon might help ;)
23:49.28IriX64err my_free(char* ptr){if(ptr){free(ptr);ptr=NULL;return(ptr)}}return;
23:49.44IriX64been awhile :)
23:50.13IriX64err my_free(char* ptr){if(ptr){free(ptr);ptr=NULL;return(ptr)}}return(ptr);
23:51.44IriX64make distclean
23:52.03IriX64should have auto switching windows... sorry.
Jeff Waugh - find it at freshmeat.net! Modified by Tim Riker to work with blootbot logs, split per channel, etc. irclog2html for #brlcad on 20060809

irclog2html for #brlcad on 20060809

00:18.38IriX64void main(int argc,char* argv){char * ptr; ptr=malloc(something or other); ptr=my_free(ptr); return(0);}
00:23.08IriX64try it with calloc(x,y) ;)
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08:37.14CIA-9BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/ (src/mged/tedit.c NEWS TODO): (log message trimmed)
08:37.14CIA-9BRL-CAD: fairly comprehensive rewrite of tedit() for the ted command that merges the
08:37.14CIA-9BRL-CAD: windows version in with the unix version in what should be a pretty platform
08:37.14CIA-9BRL-CAD: independent manner. this version tries a lot harder to find a usable editor
08:37.14CIA-9BRL-CAD: other than /bin/ed including checking EDITOR even on Windows (there was some bug
08:37.16CIA-9BRL-CAD: report for this, but can't find it atm). it'll also kick off TextEdit on Mac OS
08:37.18CIA-9BRL-CAD: X now as well as trying emacs and vi, before falling back on jove as the editor
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15:19.11rossbergbrlcad: why do i need libtclcad in brlcad.dll?
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17:59.01IriX64reboot bbiab.
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21:23.24CIA-9BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/misc/win32-msvc/brlcad.dsw:
21:23.25CIA-9BRL-CAD: libtclcad isn't really needed for the library build for most ray-trace purpose
21:23.25CIA-9BRL-CAD: applications. it'd only be useful if someone wanted to manually compile the
21:23.25CIA-9BRL-CAD: mged sources and then use this to link against. since that doesn't currently
21:23.25CIA-9BRL-CAD: seem to be a need, going ahead and reverting/removing it.
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Jeff Waugh - find it at freshmeat.net! Modified by Tim Riker to work with blootbot logs, split per channel, etc. irclog2html for #brlcad on 20060810

irclog2html for #brlcad on 20060810

00:25.42*** join/#brlcad iday_ (n=iday@c-68-55-177-228.hsd1.md.comcast.net)
00:26.58CIA-9BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/HACKING: when making a release, utilize the NEWS file as appropriate as a basis for making release announcements. either way, the announcements almost ALWAYS require tailored customization.
00:29.47CIA-9BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/TODO: lots of new ideas to do. full precision support, c++ geometry API, geometry voxelizer, geometry/image converter libraries, validation tests confirming various computations.
00:40.13CIA-9BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/libbu/mread.c: quell warning
00:46.49CIA-9BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/include/ (dm-tk.h Makefile.am): add initial DM_TK interface header (from Tim Myers)
00:56.59CIA-9BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/include/fbio.h: initial steps for a Tk interface, if IF_TK is defined
01:01.29CIA-9BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/libdm/ (dm-tk.c Makefile.am): add initial DM_TK interface (from Tim Myers)
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01:05.12CIA-9BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/libfb/fb_generic.c: add Tk to the list of known interfaces if IF_TK is defined
01:06.49CIA-9BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/libfb/ (if_tk.c Makefile.am): add an initial Tk framebuffer interface (implemented by Tim Myers), disabled from the build for now
01:13.34IriX64while(strstr(string1,"xyz")); do whatever with xyz   ;)
01:14.40IriX64err add a ! in appropriate place ;)
01:14.55CIA-9BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/liboptical/sh_billboard.c: decouple from libfb, don't bother trying to autosize the image based on the file name -- use the provided size
01:16.09CIA-9BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/liboptical/Makefile.am: liboptical is once again no longer dependent upon libfb
01:16.22IriX64pure drivel strstr returns the string found.
01:16.35IriX64err ptr to the string found.
01:17.23CIA-9BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/liboptical/sh_plastic.c: PM_Visualize is not used if this is RT_MULTISPECTRAL, protect accordingly so we don't end up with undefined symbols
01:40.52CIA-9BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/mged/ (dm-tk.c Makefile.am): initial DM_TK mged wrapper interface to libdm's interface (written by Tim Myers) disabled from build for now
02:07.57CIA-9BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/libdm/dm-X.c: cleanup the lengthy repetition of pub_vars and priv_vars using some local vars pointers, ws too
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05:10.57*** topic/#brlcad is http://brlcad.org/ || BRL-CAD is an open source solid modeling software suite || Developers needed! Read the HACKING file for details on getting involved
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08:35.12CIA-9BRL-CAD: 03d_rossberg * 10brlcad/src/libbn/libbn.dsp: remove asize.c file -- was refactored into src/libfb/asize.c
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08:42.15CIA-9BRL-CAD: 03d_rossberg * 10brlcad/ (5 files in 4 dirs):
08:42.15CIA-9BRL-CAD: remove the obsolete regular expression implementation in src/libsysv,
08:42.16CIA-9BRL-CAD: using the more up-to-date in src/other/libregex
08:45.49CIA-9BRL-CAD: 03d_rossberg * 10brlcad/src/libsysv/Makefile.am: remove the deleted regular expression implementation files
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13:51.38brlcadahh, nice cleanup rossberg
13:52.09brlcadtrying to get into a habit of editing the dsp files too.. their format is relatively simple enough to directly edit
14:01.33``Erikheh
14:18.44rossbergbrlcad: yes it is, i do it the same way (this way i keep the english comments)
14:21.00rossbergbut it looks like you windows-linefeed trick won't work, i get 0d-0d-0a-0d-0d-0a after checkout on windows
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15:10.43``Eriknice
15:50.28CIA-9BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/BUGS: several of the converters (e.g. dxf-g) assume newlines and do not take carriage returns into account
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20:17.08IriX64CFLAGS='-DTARGET=i586-unix-beos' configure   <===== works, will wonders never cease.
20:18.21IriX64so this is a beos apache-2.0.59 sweet.
20:19.15IriX64urmf i should probably not have posted that in the BRLCAD channel though :)
20:22.55dtidrow_workheh
20:29.52IriX64:)
20:30.33IriX64Celine Dionne, A new Day Has Come albumn, don't leave home without it.:)
20:34.23dtidrow_workyou trying to drive the rest of us away?  ;-)
20:35.45IriX64whats your favorite?
20:35.50IriX64:)
20:36.18dtidrow_workdepends on the day
20:42.09IriX64Tues.
20:43.04dtidrow_workheh
20:43.12IriX64:)
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23:39.42dliany doc for a total n00b?
23:41.07dligood, I found them on brlcad.org
Jeff Waugh - find it at freshmeat.net! Modified by Tim Riker to work with blootbot logs, split per channel, etc. irclog2html for #brlcad on 20060811

irclog2html for #brlcad on 20060811

00:18.03brlcadthat's the best place to start
00:18.42brlcadin particular, the intro to mged and the quick reference, followed by principles of effective modeling
00:19.19dlibrlcad, thanks
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04:52.34IriX64so have you adopted my_free yet?
04:59.18brlcadheh
04:59.40brlcadalready have it, it's called bu_free()  ;)
05:04.31IriX64i said round, but thanks ;)
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06:32.59CIA-9BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/configure.ac: xosdefs.h? how about searching for X11/Xosdefs.h instead
06:34.18CIA-9BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/libdm/ (dm-X.c dm-glx.c dm-ogl.c dm-pex.c dm-tk.c): HAVE_XOSDEFS_H was a conf.h fictional, update to new configure check for HAVE_X11_XOSDEFS_H and clean up header foo some.
06:43.04CIA-9BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/libdm/dm-X.c: oops .. they are x_vars, not dm_xvars
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08:21.15CIA-9BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/BUGS: several of the max screen size values were increased or reworked, revisit bug
08:27.01CIA-9BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/TODO: intel compiler was tested, it's pretty sweet. still need to add the configure detection, though. also most warnings are quelled finally, time to move on to the verbose warnings soon..
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12:10.08brlcadhmm
12:16.39clock_brlcad: hi
12:20.10ValarQhello clock and mr Cad
12:25.07brlcadciao ciao clock_ ValarQ
12:27.24clock_brlcad: yesterday we weree waxing down our surfboards with Sex Wax :)
12:54.56CIA-9BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/mged/ged.c: disable logging for now until it can be tied to OPTIMIZED too
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13:26.59CIA-9BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/BUGS: fbhelp sends some of the output to stdout and some to stderr
13:28.16CIA-9BRL-CAD: 03d_rossberg * 10brlcad/misc/win32-msvc/Dll/brlcad.def: expand exported symbols list
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14:30.24dlihow do I select prim?
14:31.00dlithe Edit menu entry is gray, and the command " draw <obj>" does nothing
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15:14.14brlcaddli: you have to specify what geometry you want it to draw
15:14.49brlcadthen when you've drawn/loaded geometry, you can specify a selection for edit or other operation
15:15.30brlcaddli: the n00b docs cover this in one of the first lessons too fwiw ;)
15:16.56brlcadin short .. you can 1) run the geometry browser and use it to display geometry or 2) use tops, get a list of objects, run "e some_object" to display that object, use Edit menu or sed 'some_oject' to edit a primitve
15:17.14brlcadjust two of several ways to do that as well
15:21.22dlibrlcad, thanks
15:24.36dlibrlcad, the 2nd way, in Edit menu, the "Prim Selection" is gray, " sed " gives Error: Unable to do <keyboard solid edit start> from SOL EDIT state.
15:30.59brlcaddli: oh, it sounds like you're already in solid edit mode on some object? is there a reject/apply/accept option?
15:32.11dlibrlcad, got it, after rejection, it works now
15:32.34brlcadyeah, helps to not be in edit mode ;)
15:32.46brlcadhooray for modality errors
15:33.57dlibrlcad, can I get 2D drawing finally? the classical ones, with dimensions
15:34.31dlibrlcad, I can see there are Front/Top/Side views, but I don't see a way to get dimensions on them
15:36.20``Erikheh, 'draft' mode seems to be getting a lot of requests o.O :)
15:36.25clock_dli: no support yet
15:37.09dliclock_, then, I have to work with bugs of qcad
15:49.04clock_dli: I have to work with bugs of qcad too
15:49.14clock_dli: especially the one that it cannot be compiled on OpenBSD ;-)
15:51.58dliclock_, it compiles :( but it has serious font problem, also, dashed ellipse shown as solid lines, it can not trim ellipse arc
15:53.19clock_dli: how did you compile it?
15:53.23clock_What version are you using?
15:54.04dliclock_, 2.0.4.0-r1 in gentoo
15:54.15clock_dli: ah Gentoo I said on OpenBSD
15:54.33dliclock_, I mean it compiles here :(
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16:51.25CIA-9BRL-CAD: 03erikgreenwald * 10brlcad/src/librt/g_metaball.c: minor clean, and changed some logic in shot to fix a memory leak.
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17:52.26brlcadahh, ``Erik found it?
17:54.01``Erikyeah
17:54.26``Eriksome fishy logic had an RT_GET_SEG that never got to a BU_LIST_INSERT
17:56.20``Erik<-- special
17:58.52``Erikmsot of this morning was getting a fresh debug version on a single proc machine, heh :)
18:05.06brlcadso, compiling on your O2 again,eh? :)
18:06.53``Erikhah, no, the 1.8ghz fbsd thingie
18:06.55``Erikmy mp3 player
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19:43.33``Erik10293 vgr's, not too shabby
19:45.24brlcadnot too shabby
19:49.25brlcadthat's optimized I hope?
19:49.42brlcadcurious how well --disable-runtime-debug improves that score
19:49.46``Erikum, yeah, but still with debugging
19:50.07brlcaddebugging isn't really much but cache coherency related, maybe 1-2% at best
19:50.17brlcadrunning strip and you have the same
19:50.32``Erikyeah
19:50.44``Erikbah, you bastard
19:50.46brlcad--disable-runtime-debug, however, is completely different
19:50.59``Erik$ sh autogen.sh
19:50.59``ErikINTERNAL ERROR: dirname/basename inconsistency: autogen.sh != ./autogen.sh
19:51.04brlcadit disabled the plethora of run-time validity checks that just bomb
19:51.09brlcadheh
19:51.52brlcadcomment it out
19:52.01brlcador fix it :)
19:52.21``Erikmeh, I ran it as ./autogen.sh
19:54.47brlcadyep, that's denoted in the BUGS file .. noticed that over a year ago
19:55.19brlcadno biggie, you can run it installed from anywhere and just point RT to the one just compiled
19:55.29brlcadRT=path/to/RT benchmark
19:56.11brlcador even: RT=path/to/rt make benchmark
19:58.14brlcadinteresting.. "dirname autogen.sh" reports "."
19:59.14brlcadheh, sh ./autogen.sh would have worked too
20:04.53CIA-9BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/autogen.sh: if autogen.sh exists, consider it good enough. otherwise then print error cruftage.
20:09.44``Erik11555 vgr's
20:10.44``Eriklike 12.2% gain
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20:22.56dtidrow_work11555 - nice  :-)
20:27.30dtidrow_workbest I've gotten on this box is 2335
20:29.35brlcaddtidrow_work: did you try --disable-runtime-deubg ?
20:30.43dtidrow_worknope, wasn't aware of it
20:30.50dtidrow_workjust did 'make benchmark'
20:31.24dtidrow_work'--disable-runtime-deubg' - is that a configure option?
20:48.03brlcadahhh
20:48.15brlcadyes, it's a configure option
20:48.28CIA-9BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/configure.ac: check for the sys/prctl.h header .. it declares sproc()
20:48.30brlcadhelps to not repeat my typo too :)  .. "debug"
20:49.04brlcad./configure --enable-optimized --disable-debug --disable-runtime-debug  should give a fairly optimal run-time result
20:49.47dtidrow_workheh - back in 40min then  ;-)
20:51.13brlcadafter a make clean of course to clear out the proevious build
20:51.25dtidrow_workyep - compiling now
20:51.32brlcadthat should pretty much double your performance unless the previous was already --enable-optimized
20:51.46dtidrow_workwhich it was
20:52.02dtidrow_workthat boosted it from ~1700 to 2335
20:52.04brlcadso then you might get anywhere from 10-30% from disabling run-time debug
20:52.18brlcadsurprisingly low boost actually
20:52.37dtidrow_workthis is a 4-year-old box  :-\
20:52.41brlcadcommodity platform?
20:52.53dtidrow_workDell 670 from '02
20:53.04dtidrow_work530, rather
20:53.19brlcadimplies either the compiler is doing a pretty good job optimizing at -O0 or is doing a horrible job at -O3
20:53.22dtidrow_workdual 2GHz Xeons with HT turned on
20:53.47brlcador a little bit of both probably more likely
20:53.48dtidrow_workrunning FC4
20:54.25dtidrow_workgcc 4.0.2
20:55.24``Erik<PROTECTED>
21:14.53dtidrow_workbrlcad: getting an error in the compilation, though it seems weird
21:14.57dtidrow_workmake[1]: Entering directory `/home/dtidrow/src/brlcad-7.8.2/pix'
21:14.57dtidrow_workmake[1]: *** No rule to make target `bldg391.pix', needed by `all-am'.  Stop.
21:14.57dtidrow_workmake[1]: Leaving directory `/home/dtidrow/src/brlcad-7.8.2/pix'
21:15.16dtidrow_workwhy would it be making stuff in the 'pix' dir?
21:19.10brlcadhrm, that is odd
21:19.52brlcadsounds like file(s) have been deleted
21:20.07dtidrow_workyeah, something got screwed
21:20.10brlcadooh
21:20.25brlcadyou said you did make benchmark?
21:20.29dtidrow_workyeah
21:20.43brlcaddid you also run configure with --enable-only-benchmark?
21:20.49dtidrow_worknope
21:20.52brlcadhrmph
21:21.06brlcadis that pix file in the pix/ dir?
21:21.24dtidrow_workdon't see it there
21:21.37dtidrow_workwait a minute, let me check again
21:22.16dtidrow_workthere's a "bldg391.pix.22980"
21:22.41brlcadahh, sounds like you maybe deleted the reference images at some point
21:22.44dtidrow_worklooks like a process-id added onto the end, like from a previous benchmark run
21:22.52dtidrow_workhmmm
21:23.09dtidrow_workmaybe I should just nuke the whole thing and start fresh from the tarball
21:23.20brlcadwhen you run benchmark, it dumps out a lot of pix files, backing up existing as .PID files
21:24.29brlcadyeah, starting fresh is probably best
21:25.11dtidrow_workeasy enough
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21:28.05CIA-9BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/canon/canon.h: use the newly added HAVE_SYS_PRCTL_H so we can check whether PR_SALL and PR_SFDS are provided by the sproc interface for working with dslib.
21:31.10CIA-9BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/canon/ (canonlib.c ipuscan.c ipustat.c pix-ipu.c png-ipu.c): header cleanup
21:31.23brlcaddtidrow_work: do you happen to have any experience with mosix?
21:31.39dtidrow_worknope, what is it?
21:31.54brlcadit's a cluster operating system
21:32.16brlcadprovides virtual shared memory, automatic process migration among nodes, load balancing, etc
21:32.18dtidrow_workah, that's why it sounds vaguely familiar
21:32.35IriX64obviously not a vax cluster. :)
21:32.38brlcadSMP style, not the distributed independent MPI/PVM style
21:34.19IriX64Qnix?
21:34.23IriX64:)
21:34.45IriX64your comeback should be *nix ;)
21:44.01IriX64would pay for a screen shot of your system brlcad, if thats what you're running.
21:52.20CIA-9BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/librt/tree.c: quell 64bit warning
21:56.07dtidrow_workI'd love to see what the benchmark on this monster comes out as: http://www.boxxtech.com/products/apexx8.asp
21:58.16brlcadooh, sweet hardware
21:58.59dtidrow_workindeed  :-)
21:59.17dtidrow_workthink they had a demo system of that @SIGGRAPH
21:59.18brlcadI'd bet/hope something on the order of 30k vgr if not better
21:59.33dtidrow_workI never did get a good look in that booth
21:59.35brlcadrough quote?
21:59.50dtidrow_workguessing around $30k
22:01.16dtidrow_workk, the latest bench run came out at 2556
22:01.42brlcadhm, so about 10% too
22:01.55dtidrow_worksomething like that
22:02.13dtidrow_workI just need a new box  ;-)
22:02.34dtidrow_workthe rambus memory probably isn't helping, either
22:03.00brlcadseems reasonable.. the higher end 30% numbers are mostly on much older hardware, especially systems like irix 5 that can get branch predictions wrong a lot
22:04.03brlcadnice to see almost every test more than a million rays/sec :)
22:04.04dtidrow_workwhich altix system?
22:04.11brlcadit's a 12 node
22:04.19dtidrow_worknice
22:04.29brlcad1.4
22:04.40dtidrow_worktoo bad it's from S_I
22:11.00brlcad13574 vgr
22:13.26``Erikthat the 12 or the 16?
22:13.58brlcadthe 12
22:14.17``Erik1131 vgr's per core, opposed to the amd64's 2889 vgrs per core :)
22:14.25brlcadyup
22:14.29``Erik*stomp* hehehe
22:14.46brlcadconsiderably more spensive too.. though way better on I/O
22:14.56``Erik*nod*
22:15.21``Erikif the amd had the same class of disk, it'd be smokin' too, though
22:17.46brlcadnot just disk, their cray interconnect stuff is just nice
22:18.06brlcadi think that more than anything is what gets the compile down so fast
22:18.56brlcadmind you that vgr is also on a machine that is probably about 3-4 years old, cluster is at least 6-12 months newer
22:19.30brlcadi mean, the new macbooks are almost 5k ..
22:20.21brlcadthat puts one single xserve in the ballpark of that altix
22:20.31brlcadand the cluster
22:21.46brlcadthat boxx apex system is sweet though.. if the specs match up, that really could be as much as 20-30k vgrs
22:22.11IriX64you people are spoled rotten :)
22:22.24IriX64spoiled too.
22:22.35dtidrow_workwhat's the new 'vgr'?
22:22.47brlcadthough at $30k, you'd get more bang per buck with 8 xserves.. should be about 80k vgrs
22:22.47dtidrow_workis that the altix?
22:23.12dtidrow_workthat $30k was just a guess
22:23.13brlcadno no.. vgr baseline is unchanged
22:23.16IriX64reguts.c line 58 NDEBUG redefined guys.
22:23.29dtidrow_workstill the ancient VAX?
22:23.42brlcadIriX64: there is no reguts.c
22:23.50IriX64eh?
22:24.05IriX64my mistake :(
22:24.18IriX64must be mine.
22:24.27IriX64it is.
22:24.36brlcaddtidrow_work: the physical hardware for VGR was decommissioned about 5 years ago iirc, but we still have the performance metrics
22:24.57dtidrow_workthat's what I thought
22:25.06brlcadi've been looking at using vax running in simh to keep it maintainable indefinitely
22:25.39brlcadi set up the vax in there and got netbsd installed with not too much hassle, few source edits, some kernel trickery to get data in the machine
22:25.41dtidrow_workChris Johnson was messing around with that at one time
22:25.54brlcadyeah, we were talking about that a year or two ago
22:26.42brlcadwouldn't take too much work (one would imagine) to throttle simh so that it consistently computes an exact 1.0 vgr
22:26.49IriX64regguts.h sorry.
22:27.02``Erikheh
22:27.08brlcadIriX64: that's tcl, not our code
22:27.33brlcadany warnings in src/other are "not our problem"
22:27.42IriX64never mind its legit i disable debug and symbols.
22:27.47``Erikbut netbsd instead of bsd4.3? you're not afraid of library differences or kernel differences skewing things? :)
22:27.48brlcadI only care fix code in there if it fails
22:27.50IriX64disabled too.
22:28.05``Erikor are you gonna try to redefine the vgr o.O
22:28.15brlcadyou have a copy of 4.3 lying around? :)
22:28.23``ErikI bet kermit has the tapes
22:28.24brlcadi would have gone for anything
22:28.30brlcadbut open crapped on it
22:28.38brlcadand wasn't even going to attempt free
22:28.48``Erikold fbsd might've
22:28.50brlcadnet was seamless
22:29.19``Erikbe interesting seeing how many vgr's a vgr class machine gets with a different(ish) os
22:29.23dtidrow_workhttp://www.creativemac.com/articles/viewarticle.jsp?id=39966 - says that a maxed one would be around $80k
22:29.23brlcadyeah, maybe old, but net was clean and very simple
22:29.31brlcadeek
22:29.58dtidrow_worklikely fully loaded with memory and disks
22:30.26dtidrow_workwhich means 128GB RAM and 7-10TB of disk
22:30.26brlcadthat's like 16 xserves loaded .. different architecture of course, but if the vgr count was primae fascia importance..
22:30.40dtidrow_workand one system image
22:30.41brlcadmakes for a beautiful deskside SMP station, though, gotta admit
22:31.11dtidrow_workthe new BFM9000  ;-)
22:31.25brlcadpretty much :)
22:32.05dtidrow_workbrlcad: when did you start up there at ARL?
22:32.11brlcadif I had the new cad website up with the benchmark database.. I'd certainly be working on getting simh going with some stable setup
22:32.28brlcaddtidrow_work: about 7 years ago
22:32.30brlcadthereabouts
22:32.38dtidrow_workdid you ever make it down to NVL?
22:32.44brlcadNO!
22:32.47brlcadi wish i had
22:32.48dtidrow_workheh
22:33.33brlcadthat's a connection that unfortunately was lost with the loss oD[D[D[D[D[D[D[D[D[Df m.m.
22:33.43brlcader, that was wierd
22:34.11dtidrow_workglitch in the matrix?  ;-)
22:34.20brlcadi think so
22:34.35dtidrow_worklol
22:34.39``Erikmr anderson...
22:35.14brlcadso.. ``Erik .. the freebsd ports thing
22:35.29``Erikum, hrm?
22:35.41brlcadassuming it's all worky worky now for using a system tcl/tk
22:35.49``Erikno
22:36.01brlcadi'm playing with the idea of having multiple independent projects
22:36.14``Erikwhen it starts up, it look for tcl paths and only gets the brlcad/crap path, since it only search for one path
22:36.23``Erikor, it did last I looked
22:36.31brlcadyeah, I mean aside from that.. still have to fix that ;)
22:36.53``Erikwell, asking it to use the system tcl and tk si trivial, I've tried it a few times
22:36.59``Erikbut until that is fixed, it's unusable
22:37.17brlcadhow much work you think it'll be to support having multiple ports packages as well as the main kitchen sink one?
22:37.24``Erikuh
22:37.29``Erikwhy would it be multiple ports packages?
22:37.44brlcad18:36 <@brlcad> i'm playing with the idea of having multiple independent projects
22:37.57``Erikah, heh
22:37.57brlcadso that if I only wanted some piece.. i could install just that
22:37.59``Erikwell
22:38.01brlcade.g. libpkg
22:38.06brlcador the raytrace library
22:38.10brlcador just mged
22:38.13brlcador just the converters, etc
22:38.27``Erikum, if it's broken into like 30 projects, that would be difficult to get flying with the comitters and core
22:38.28brlcad(see doc/PROJECTS for what'd probably be the list)
22:38.39brlcadmore like 10
22:39.01brlcadhowso?  I've seen other ports that are broken up that way
22:39.10``Erikinto 2 or 3
22:39.13brlcadespecially the big ones, gtk is a prime example
22:39.15``Erik...
22:39.27``Erikheh, gtk is broken into gtk and glib
22:39.29``Erik...
22:39.43``Erikand lots of other programs started using glib without gdk and gtk, so it was broken up
22:39.55brlcadit works, though
22:40.06brlcadthere are several projects in brl-cad that really stand on their own
22:40.23brlcadsome are already in ports as a separate project even :) (ttcp)
22:40.53``Erikyeah, ttcp, jove, ...
22:41.14``Erikif you do it, I could try to create a bunch of ports and see if they fly
22:41.31brlcadwe don't "own" jove, but we technically do ttcp even if there are "patched versions" out there now that have more features
22:41.45``Erikheh
22:41.50``Erikabout as much as we own ping...
22:41.57brlcadi'm just wondering how much trouble it'd be
22:42.06brlcadnah, ttcp hasn't changed nearly as much as ping has ;)
22:42.23``Erika day or so of work to get the ports built and stuff, then antoher week or so to get 'em reviewed and committed, I'd imagine
22:42.30``Erikping is a little more used than ttcp
22:42.32brlcadi looked into bringing in his original ping source as a utility
22:43.06brlcadwould have too, cept he initially wrote the sockets using privileged socket options
22:43.12brlcadso you have to run it as root :)
22:43.33``Erikheh
22:44.03brlcadwas tempting, though.. I could actually use that in the new modeler as a plugin had it not
22:47.00IriX64heh ;)
22:48.16IriX64#ifdef #ifndef whats an n more or less :)
22:54.38IriX64while((ptr=strchr(string,'\0x0d')));ptr+1=0x00;
22:54.48IriX64whats wrong with that?
22:55.28brlcadheh, this is right up your alley ``Erik: http://www.hermann-uwe.de/files/images/programmer_hierarchy.png
22:57.21IriX64brlcad:should rename to required education for any programmer. :)
22:57.58IriX64ahrrrgggghhhh *ptr+1
22:58.15IriX64*(ptr+1)
23:00.13brlcadhm .. depends entirely on the intent, no? :)
23:00.22IriX64yah. :)
23:00.55IriX64intent is to null terminated a bunch of non nullterminated strings.
23:01.14IriX64but the do have 0d oa in them.
23:01.21IriX640a too
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23:12.44b0efbrlcad: it's really great to break up the project like that;)
23:14.26TwingySmoking is bad for your lungs.
23:14.49b0ef, but it sure is good
23:16.20Twingyit's a waste of time
23:16.33IriX64thats why i do it ;)
23:16.52Twingyare you religious?
23:16.57b0efTwingy: so you claim
23:17.04IriX64yes the one true religion.
23:17.08brlcadbeer?
23:17.16IriX64beleiving.
23:17.33IriX64catholicism the rest just ways of beiliving.
23:17.50brlcadi've seen it, even tasted
23:17.52IriX64thats a cult :)
23:19.03IriX64twingy is suppsed to do cpr.
23:19.09IriX64supposed too.
23:19.19brlcadi don't think that'd be a good idea :)
23:19.34IriX64leave me dead would you ?
23:19.40IriX64medi
23:19.44IriX64medic too.
23:21.12IriX64better a hippie than a yuppie don't you think?
23:22.09brlcadhey Twingy.. you know of a good means to compute an OBB that's aligned with the view frustum?
23:22.25brlcad(of implicit prims, not just polys)
23:22.33Twingyisn't that an oxymoron?
23:22.56brlcader, not afaik
23:23.09Twingyis the OBB AA?
23:23.27brlcadit'd be an aabb if I consider the view frustum as creating some global coordinate system i suppose
23:24.03brlcadbut even then.. i have that transformation, and not clear how to make a nice tight fitting bb
23:24.29brlcadend result that I'm trying to get is a rect on pixel image where an object possibly intersects
23:24.31Twingyyou have an arbitrary view and a frustum that goes with it
23:25.02IriX64do pixel math :)
23:25.04brlcads/intersects/exists or is otherwise going to get rendered for some rays)
23:25.40Twingywhat is the OBB encapsulating?
23:26.36brlcadi got a torus being looked at 35 25 or something, going to render 512x512.. want to know which ray-pixels are definitely NOT possibly intersecting the torus
23:26.54brlcadidea was to create an obb aligned with the view to get that box
23:27.22Twingya scene graph would be able to tell you that with the same amount of instructions as your proposed algorithm would
23:28.09Twingybut given how coupled everything is to BSP's...
23:28.32brlcadokay, but even the scene graph would be testing rays against planes or aabbs or obb's or some other bvh
23:29.00Twingythey would be, but the number of instructions is like in the tens, just ask alexis
23:29.01brlcadi don't really want to test rays (yet)
23:29.43Twingythe cross products alone will eat up that many instructions
23:30.15brlcadstill.. you say walk the scene graph which is all good.. but a scene graph of what?  just a bsp?
23:30.37IriX64Twingy: not if you encapsulate the algorithm in a repetitive loop with a way out.
23:30.50Twingya graph of nodes with pointers to neighbors like alexis has, I'm not sure how detailed I can get without his permission though
23:31.11Twingyit becomes a breshenham stepping problem
23:31.21brlcadso he's using aabbs basically
23:31.26Twingyyes, exactly
23:31.31brlcador at least you're suggesting using aabbs
23:31.31Twingybut not a tree
23:31.49Twingyyea, if aabb's get used as a tree like I did in adrt then it's already non-optimal
23:31.49brlcadsure
23:32.16brlcadbasically a variant of grid traversal
23:32.21Twingyexactly
23:32.29brlcadingo actually talked a fair bit about his work on that this past year..
23:32.31Twingybut not in any research papers
23:32.36Twingyatleast as of yet afaik
23:32.49Twingyah, so he's catching up to alexis's work then :)
23:32.54brlcadperhaps
23:33.09brlcadyou'll have to take a look at the course video
23:33.36Twingyok, but getting back to reality
23:33.42brlcadstill wasn't close to russian dude's first-hit tracer
23:33.46Twingyimplementing a scene graph is not practical right now
23:33.59Twingyreschetov's is clever, but still not entirely optimal
23:33.59brlcadbut then nobody is still
23:34.35brlcadnot practical, howso?
23:34.45TwingyI think he's trying to use kd-tree's in ways that no longer make them kd-tree's...
23:35.14Twingyit's not a textbook tree if you have leaf nodes pointing to other leaf nodes
23:35.44brlcadit's just an inbred tree ;)
23:35.45Twingyit's closer to a scene graph than anything
23:36.05TwingyI think reschetov will be the first to call it a scene graph
23:36.19Twingybut ingo might too, anybody's guess
23:36.58Twingyso back to the torus
23:37.15brlcadgetting back to my problem, though.. at least one of my many problems.. say I wanted to draw a box, light up the pixels, around some rendered object
23:37.24Twingyyou're doing 2 matrix multiplies right now I take it?
23:37.51Twingywhat if you steal some rasterization codes
23:37.59brlcadright now, nothing.. i'm trying to sort out what I need to implement
23:38.02Twingyreasterize the torus
23:38.05Twingy*rasterize
23:38.14brlcadthat's the trick though, without rendering the box contents
23:38.23brlcadotherwise it's just trivial pixel walking
23:38.25Twingybut rasterization is cheap
23:38.52Twingyok, don't rasterize
23:38.54brlcadnot in this particular usage.. i just want to know a basic projection box around the object
23:38.59Twingynod
23:39.21brlcadi can take the bounding sphere and quickly compute a bounding box around that.. but that's rarely going to be tight fitting
23:40.11Twingyso are you going to do ray/box testing?
23:40.27brlcadi was hoping to avoid any ray testing, but if necessary sure
23:40.40dtidrow_workbrlcad: what are you trying to do again?
23:40.42brlcadit seems just conceptually that I should be able to compute that box
23:40.48brlcaddirectly
23:41.28brlcaddtidrow_work: determine a bounding square on a rendered image around some given object in 3-space
23:41.33Twingythat box is already a function in each primitive
23:41.51brlcadso if I rendered a tank, for example, this would be the tightest fitting square outline in the image if I were to crop the image
23:42.05brlcadthe box is aligned to global coordinates in each prim
23:42.10brlcadnot the view
23:42.25brlcadI could do the same projection like for the sphere, but that'll also not be tight fitting
23:42.42Twingyis this just to speed up rendering images with empty pixels or in general, like in a forest
23:43.00brlcadwhich is why I was thinking of how to compute an obb directly on some given prim, and provide an orientation that was aligned with the view
23:43.39brlcadneither and both really.. it's for an idea I have for fast csg evaluation
23:43.46Twingythat box is a function of the projection matrix AND modelview matrix
23:44.09Twingyif we're talking opengl lingo
23:44.27brlcadit's an idea that would effectively make boolweave and the bsp traversal go away in librt potentially
23:44.44brlcador at least get computed in a radically different manner
23:45.30Twingyis the box you're getting aligned with the view? horizontal and vertical lines
23:45.31brlcadyeah, it is .. so how do I go from those two matrices to that projection?
23:45.42brlcadyeah, purely horizontal and vertical
23:46.01Twingyoh, I know
23:46.05brlcadbasically I want to categorize pixels bunches sort of into the postage stamp sections
23:46.21Twingythe mesa source code has the GLU Project utility
23:46.22brlcadwhere know this square of pixels needs to be tested
23:46.44Twingytake the 8 projected points of the box, min max them
23:46.45Twingydone
23:46.46brlcadagainst some primitive
23:46.58Twingyyou already have a bounding box for the primitive
23:47.13brlcadthat's what i meant though.. that's projecting the aabb onto the view
23:47.16brlcadit's not tight fitting
23:47.18Twingyso you project the 8 points (might be an optimization in there to do less) and grab the min max
23:47.40Twingyoh, the aabb
23:47.47Twingywell, you could always add a new type of box
23:48.00Twingythat is the aabb * transformation matrix
23:48.14Twingyerr some function of that
23:48.20Twingy6 floats...
23:48.28brlcadwhich would be a function that effectively computes an obb :)
23:48.46brlcadwhich i don't see how to directly evaluate on a given implicit :)
23:48.50Twingyyea, but I just listed the puzzle pieces
23:48.57Twingywell the code will simplify
23:49.35TwingyI know that with the projection code from mesa, transformation matrix for the primitive, and perhaps an extra 6 floats in each primitive I could hash something out then optimize it
23:49.42Twingyatleast that is what my approach would be
23:49.53brlcadhm
23:50.02brlcadi'll take a look there then
23:50.24TwingyI ripped the mesa projection code and put it in nurbana for selecting control points on a mesh
23:50.42Twingythe code documents are in french I think
23:50.50Twingybut it's easy to follow
23:51.03brlcadheh
23:52.52Twingyhttp://js.cx/~justin/ProjectUtility.cpp
23:53.50Twingyyou want UnProject
23:54.17Twingyall the way at the bottom
23:55.48Twingythe trick will be finding the optimizations after you merge it into the other code to project the 8 pts
23:56.13Twingymy gut feeling is you can simplify alot of that cruft
23:56.18brlcadhm
23:56.39Twingyoutput of UnProject is x,y screen coordinate
23:56.44brlcadi think i follow, but still don't have a good way to determine those 8 points
23:56.57brlcadin model space
23:57.04Twingybefore the primitive gets a transformation applied to it
23:57.15Twingyit's AABB is tight fitting no?
23:57.25brlcadyeah, should be
23:57.27brlcadahhh
23:57.35brlcadso it's rotating
23:57.37Twingyk, stargate time
23:58.11brlcadcalculating the box using the aabb, then unprojecting those points back up through the modelview and projection matrix
23:58.14brlcadcoolness
23:58.20brlcadthanks, that might just work! :)
23:58.44brlcadmm.. stargate..  yay for dvr.. but time to go home :)
Jeff Waugh - find it at freshmeat.net! Modified by Tim Riker to work with blootbot logs, split per channel, etc. irclog2html for #brlcad on 20060812

irclog2html for #brlcad on 20060812

00:13.27``Erikerm, sg ain't till 9, no?
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01:14.52brlcadyep
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02:13.08CIA-9BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/TODO: display the current mode in mged graphics window
02:14.49IriX64www.brlcad.org. check it out.
02:15.11IriX64ftp.brlcad.org.
02:15.21IriX64yours?
02:28.34IriX64raytrace control panel->advanced settings->light model->photon mapping done, yea.
02:29.01IriX64i'll see your ray and raise you a photon :)
02:29.22brlcadyes, they're still in the incoming bin
02:29.49IriX64hrmmph no interest in my work eh? :)
02:30.36brlcadbusy trying to implement new features and get this iteration's release out, 7.8.4
02:30.45IriX64cool.
02:31.16IriX64photon mapping = instead of shooting a line you shoot pixel by pixel.
02:31.54brlcadnot exactly
02:32.03IriX64err i erred:)
02:32.09IriX64?
02:32.42IriX64oh i see never mind.
02:32.46IriX64:)
02:32.47brlcadinstead of just simulating a light ray bouncing around a scene, you add the simulation of photons being emitted from the light source(s) and they're deposited throughout the scene
02:33.21brlcadthe rays being shot then pick up the photons, which gives a relatively cheap form of global illumination
02:33.58IriX64but if you illuminate the pixels with shades of light its more accurate my way.
02:35.21IriX64in other words hit the same pixel three different times with varying intensities of light.
02:35.44IriX64simulating global illumination instead of scen illumination.
02:35.54IriX64scene too :)
02:36.22IriX64ermf pixels is the wrong reference.
02:36.35IriX64dot is more accurate or point.
02:37.39IriX64must see a man about a recurring plumbing problem be right back ;)
02:40.12IriX64homo sapiens = poor desig, leaks everywhere :)
02:40.18IriX64design too.
03:32.48IriX64cleverly programmed into each full compile, is a loooooooong coffee break, ill be back in 60.
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03:50.47IriX64jack-g? jack? jack shit? yeah I know him ;)
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04:47.46IriX64errrmmmfff "I am Joes spine"   :)
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20:12.54IriX64cheers.
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21:42.15IriX64if (!BU_CK_MAPPED_FULE(dsp_ip->dsp_mp)) return 0; <=======not familiar with BU* will this work?
Jeff Waugh - find it at freshmeat.net! Modified by Tim Riker to work with blootbot logs, split per channel, etc. irclog2html for #brlcad on 20060813

irclog2html for #brlcad on 20060813

01:02.17*** join/#brlcad dli (n=dli@adsl-75-33-255-64.dsl.chcgil.sbcglobal.net)
01:37.05IriX64guess not :(
01:43.55IriX64some people just like to watch ;)
03:15.43brlcadwhat do you mean "will this work?"
03:16.25brlcadit does what it's designed to do .. checks to make sure the dsp_mp pointer is a mapped file, though you spell FULE wrong
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19:27.37IriX64what i meant was does it return a null on success or error?
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22:45.56myricHello all
22:46.58myricHey I downloaded the latest source for brlcad but it would not build.
22:47.56myrichttp://switch.dl.sourceforge.net/sourceforge/brlcad/brlcad-7.8.2.tar.gz
22:48.42myricThe file adrt/isst/observer/observer.c references a file splash.h that doesn't exist
22:49.09myricand then the functions that are supposed to be there for showing a splash screen had to be commented out
22:56.24dtidrowwhich OS are you building on?
23:06.08myriclinux
23:06.18myricsorry didn't see your response
23:06.23myricdoesn't matter
23:06.59myric#include "splash.h" when there's no "splash.h" breaks a build on any platform
23:18.13dtidrowodd - it compiles fine for me on FC4
23:19.55myrichmm
23:20.10myric7.8.0 or 7.8.2?
23:20.16dtidrow7.8.2
23:20.42myriccan you find a file in your source called splash.h
23:20.44myric?
23:20.56myricmaybe I gat a bad tar
23:20.57dtidrowhang on - that was at my work machine
23:21.02myricoh sorry
23:21.12dtidrownp - just have to log into it
23:22.06CIA-9BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/mged/ged.c: refix the command-line history bug that was inadvertently undone by the mac delete key patch
23:22.19myricI'm running ubunto 6.06 on this pc btw
23:22.30dtidrownope, no splash.h there
23:22.33myrichmm
23:23.12myricmine either
23:23.24myricand there's a reference to it in adrt/isst/observer/observer.c
23:23.28dtidrowwhich file is the #include in?
23:23.40myrici had to comment it out to get it to build
23:25.14myricnot really a problem since I figured it out.  It'll just confuse people trying it for the first time if it happens to them.
23:26.14dtidrowbut where is it coming from?
23:26.40dtidrowI wonder if it's a tk thing....
23:29.16CIA-9BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/mged/ (ged.c history.c): make the command history pattern arg const
23:31.33myricit was just a build error in a c file
23:31.49myricWe must have different files
23:31.57myricsomehow
23:32.19myricI don't think tk uses .h files or .c files
23:35.24CIA-9BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/mged/clone.c:
23:35.24CIA-9BRL-CAD: one step closer towards v5 database support, make function hooks match
23:35.24CIA-9BRL-CAD: db_functree interface (last param wasn't genptr_t). fix a memory leak related
23:35.24CIA-9BRL-CAD: to get_name(). keep track of whether objects are correctly cloned via get_name
23:35.24CIA-9BRL-CAD: lookups.
23:35.24myricohhh...
23:36.05myricI did have to do some playing with configure options to get adrt to build at all
23:36.15myricmaybe you didn't build adrt?
23:37.41brlcadmyric: adrt auto-enables if it finds python and sdl
23:38.11brlcadthough it really shouldn't because it's as cross-platform-compiling capable as the rest of the package
23:38.42myricit didn't on mine because it didn't find python
23:39.26brlcadsince you have sdl and python, you could conceivably get it to successfully build by fixing the Makefile.am's but it's not really critical
23:39.27myricso I had to give a --with-python=/usr/include/python2.4/ switch
23:39.32brlcadahh
23:39.41brlcadI'd suggest leaving that off ;)
23:39.44myricI did that too
23:40.18myricI also manually edited the Makefile.am, but I thought that was just me
23:40.30myricsince I configured it several times
23:40.33brlcadshould --disable-adrt ;)
23:40.41myricwhat exactly is adrt
23:40.42myric?
23:40.48myricI could look it up..
23:40.48brlcadsdl and python aren't required for anything else
23:41.00brlcadadrt is the "advanced distributed ray-tracer"
23:41.07myricah
23:41.17myricI thought maybe it had something to do with the new archer
23:41.22brlcadit's a very high-performance triangle ray-trace library, path tracer, and ray-tracer
23:42.14brlcadspecific to triangle-only models, but very nicely high-performing .. takes some configuration work to make use of it, some not well documented
23:42.24brlcadnothing to do with archer
23:42.27myricok
23:42.38myricI did get it to build
23:42.53myricIt just didn't build out of the box so to speak
23:42.59brlcadarcher also hasn't been set up for non-windows platforms yet either fwiw
23:43.04myricand I wanted to let somebody know
23:43.09brlcadit's not supposed to build out of the box yet ;)
23:43.17myricok then
23:43.43myricI'd like to work on getting archer to work on linux.
23:43.49brlcadit's on the to-do list, just hasn't been a priority
23:43.55brlcadthat'd be very cool
23:44.02myricI've got a few hours to poke around tonight
23:44.34brlcadit's run on linux, so it really should just be some pathing/setup issues
23:44.53myricI know it runs on linux because I just build it
23:45.00brlcadmac os x is the only platform that should actually require a little code (to load blt correctly from a dylib)
23:45.25myricmaybe I'm misunderstanding what archer is
23:46.05brlcadmost of archer doesn't require compilation.. getting it to "build" doesn't take too much :)  getting it to fully run correctly, however, is another issue
23:46.06myricIs it supposed to be a new user friendly modeling interface?
23:46.10brlcadyes
23:46.18myricok so maybe not
23:47.00myricI haven't done much programming in tcl, but I think I could get this to work.
23:47.09myricWhat is it supposed to look like?
23:47.21myricI get a blank window with a set of axes when i open it
23:47.33myricand four buttons for zooming and rotating
23:47.47myricoh it get the axes when I make a new db
23:48.35myricI commented out the "package require blt" bit because blt commands seem to work fine without it
23:48.50myricit was throwing an error
23:49.03brlcadhttp://ftp.brlcad.org/images/archer.jpg
23:49.35myricgreat, so I have something to work toward
23:49.46myricI'm not getting the toolbar
23:50.12brlcadlack of blt is probably why you have no toolbar
23:50.18myricor the prompt, just the viewing window
23:50.23myrichmm
23:50.33brlcadsome of the interface items are disabled by default
23:50.41brlcadsee the "advanced" mode on the menu
23:50.50myricI tried running a few blt::blahblah commands in bwish and they seem to work fine
23:51.23brlcadmay have linked blt static
23:51.34myricah hah
23:51.38myricI have a toolbar
23:52.19brlcadcool
23:52.37brlcadyou may be mostly fully functional already then
23:54.44myricyeah It actually seems to work
23:54.48myricI'll play with it
23:55.52myricI do remember something like "build static: yes" from the configure script
23:58.04dtidrowjust got back - figured that the adrt stuff didn't build
23:58.13dtidrowwhich is why I didn't see any error
Jeff Waugh - find it at freshmeat.net! Modified by Tim Riker to work with blootbot logs, split per channel, etc. irclog2html for #brlcad on 20060814

irclog2html for #brlcad on 20060814

00:00.50myricbrlcad here was telling me that I don't really need it anyway
00:01.06myricI was trying to get archer to work in linux and wanted to build everything
00:01.15dtidrowyeah, I was catching up on the conversation  :-)
00:01.31myricjust to make sure whatever changes I made didn't break something else
00:02.04myricI seem to be able to make primitives in archer, but it's giving me a lot of error messages
00:03.15brlcadan example error?
00:03.49myricoh ok sorry
00:04.00myricdb_lookup(arb8.1.version2) failed: arb8.1.version2 does not exist
00:04.24myricI created a few arb8's and I am just moving them around and such
00:04.53myricthis is one I get whenever I create a new object:
00:04.56myricHiding BRL-CAD geometry (arb8.1.version2) is generaly a bad idea.
00:04.56myricThis may cause unexpected problems with other commands.
00:04.56myricAre you sure you want to do this?? (y/n)
00:05.34brlcadahh
00:05.54myricI'll be a few minutes.  Gotta put my daughter to bed.
00:06.08brlcadthat's some of archer's version tracking magic, not bad behavior (though it should quell that message)
00:17.06CIA-9BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/librt/db_io.c: can't get an mrec of a v5 database
00:37.56myricwell I seem to be able to make basic shapes.  I'll see if I can figure out why it's giving me the error messages.
00:40.43brlcadthat one in particular wasn't an error message
00:40.58brlcadjust a verbose warning for interactive mode
00:41.45myricthe one about hiding geometry?
00:41.46brlcadarcher stashes previous versions of objects as "hidden" geometry, which can as it notes cause unexpected problems with other commands if you tried to mess with them
00:42.39myricThe GUI stops responding until I go to the vt and type y or n...
00:43.15brlcadah, hm.. that's not exactly expected ;)
00:54.32CIA-9BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/mged/clone.c: prepare for making v5 primitives, restore abort on v5 combinations.
01:00.38myricso how far along is archer.  I don't seem to be able to do boolean operations.
01:00.41myric?
01:03.46myricnot a complaint, just wondering if I'm missing something
01:05.49brlcadhmm, i'd have to defer that to archer's main dev (Bob) .. but I was under the impression that booleans should be fine
01:05.59brlcadare you referring to the command line or something in the gui?
01:06.30brlcadif anything, I believe the command line should let you make booleans as it's just an embedded version of mged's command line (for the most part)
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01:06.51janomust talk to monkeyboy!
01:07.15*** part/#brlcad jano (n=point@216.115.228.148)
01:07.17brlcadheh
01:54.16CIA-9BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/mged/clone.c: refactor the index
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03:36.56*** part/#brlcad danfalck (n=dan@pool-71-111-76-8.ptldor.dsl-w.verizon.net)
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13:17.27CIA-9BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/mged/clone.c: now makes n copies of a solid primitive, but does not yet apply a transformation matrix
13:23.16``Erikup late, sean?
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14:41.33brlcad``Erik: yup
16:26.03CIA-9BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/conv/fast4-g.c:
16:26.03CIA-9BRL-CAD: this should allow for longer length object names when performing a conversion
16:26.03CIA-9BRL-CAD: instead of seemingly arbitrarily limiting the names to 16 characters. this
16:26.03CIA-9BRL-CAD: change is made in response to sf feature request 1539998 (FastGen to BRL-CAD
16:26.03CIA-9BRL-CAD: converter truncates names) from ashleybomboy.
16:36.24CIA-9BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/NEWS:
16:36.24CIA-9BRL-CAD: support for longer Fastgen object names in fast4-g.. should allow for longer
16:36.24CIA-9BRL-CAD: length object names when performing a conversion instead of seemingly
16:36.24CIA-9BRL-CAD: arbitrarily limiting the names to 16 characters. this change is made in
16:36.24CIA-9BRL-CAD: response to sf feature request 1539998 (FastGen to BRL-CAD converter truncates
16:36.25CIA-9BRL-CAD: names) from ashleybomboy.
17:24.59CIA-9BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/ (include/raytrace.h src/librt/wdb_obj.c): make RT_NAMESIZE obsolete, remove from public interface header. retain the v4 support for 16 char object names using a local define.
17:26.48CIA-9BRL-CAD: 03erikgreenwald * 10brlcad/src/librt/g_metaball.c:
17:26.48CIA-9BRL-CAD: Alter point value to be f^2/r^2.
17:26.48CIA-9BRL-CAD: Set normalization routine to use f^2/r^3 to fix flipped normals.
17:31.37CIA-9BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/ (libdm/dm-X.c libdm/dm-generic.c libfb/if_X.c): change function names to avoid debug build name clashing
17:41.23``Erikhttp://www.yikers.com/video_hillbillies_mess_with_wrong_guy_and_get_gun_pulled_on_them.html
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19:16.19IriX64for(;;)        :)
19:16.57IriX64same as while(1)   :)
19:17.43ValarQbut the former looks better
19:17.53IriX64heh yeah.
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19:18.15ValarQwhile(!FALSE)  is pretty nice as well
19:18.31IriX64while(!TRUE) is too.
19:18.43ValarQbut none of them beats:  replicate :: Int -> a -> [a]
19:18.51IriX64or while(!1)  ;)
19:19.03brlcadloop:
19:19.03brlcad..
19:19.06brlcadgoto loop;
19:19.14brlcad*ahem*
19:19.25ValarQwhy don't you just model a continuation in a monad...
19:19.29IriX64duplicate :: char ->b ->(c)
19:19.57IriX64heh loopy games ;)
19:20.01ValarQoh, a fellow haskeller? :)
19:20.15IriX64dashenkup.
19:20.46IriX64dvorak had it right. sigh.
19:21.10IriX64querty won tho.
19:21.58IriX64my constructor was destructed :)
19:22.25IriX64gotta rethink this....
19:23.08IriX64generating the cygwin code as well as the target system is expensive in size, but it does keep me from having to do two seperate compiles to test the code.
19:23.42IriX64lets see if the ymp build is right *this time.
19:26.55IriX64cygwin side works now to call peter cray :)
19:33.17brlcadIriX64: you should try to set up simh vax
19:33.42brlcadget bsd installed in the vm and then compile brl-cad in there ;)
19:33.50IriX64vax i speak, but simh is unknown to me.
19:33.56IriX64i c ;)
19:34.09brlcadhttp://simh.trailing-edge.com/
19:34.19IriX64thank you.
19:34.46IriX64you're thinking im pulling your chain?
19:34.52brlcadhttp://www.openbsd.org/vax-simh.html
19:35.46IriX64its doable execute a cray nop first, system traps the illegal instruction trap and goes for the cygwin entry point.
19:36.35IriX64system scans the code looking for the cygwin id if its not found then repoorts the trap.
19:36.45IriX64reports too.
19:37.18IriX64:)
19:37.45IriX6415 years later its all coming together.
19:38.23IriX64want me to send you what i started with, cygw~1.exe? (16 megs)
19:39.21IriX64swear
19:40.55IriX64that hello world i maile ``Erik was my cygwin at work.
19:41.01IriX64mailed too.
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Jeff Waugh - find it at freshmeat.net! Modified by Tim Riker to work with blootbot logs, split per channel, etc. irclog2html for #brlcad on 20060815

irclog2html for #brlcad on 20060815

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09:48.03CIA-9BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/sh/ (enumerate.sh Makefile.am lines.sh):
09:48.03CIA-9BRL-CAD: renamed lines.sh to enumerate.sh and added more than just line counting to the
09:48.03CIA-9BRL-CAD: report summary. the output now also includes details on the number of
09:48.03CIA-9BRL-CAD: files/directories as well as the number of libraries and applications that are
09:48.03CIA-9BRL-CAD: compiled/installed.
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22:32.39*** topic/#brlcad is http://brlcad.org/ || BRL-CAD is an open source solid modeling software suite || Developers needed! Read the HACKING file for details on getting involved
23:25.43*** join/#brlcad SWPadnos (n=Me@dsl245.esjtvtli.sover.net)
Jeff Waugh - find it at freshmeat.net! Modified by Tim Riker to work with blootbot logs, split per channel, etc. irclog2html for #brlcad on 20060816

irclog2html for #brlcad on 20060816

02:17.48CIA-9BRL-CAD: 03johnranderson * 10brlcad/src/libbu/ (bu_fgets.c Makefile.am): Added bu_fgets(). A replacement for fgets() that also recognizes CR as an EOL marker
02:22.25CIA-9BRL-CAD: 03johnranderson * 10brlcad/src/conv/dxf-g.c: Now uses bu_fgets() so that DXF files that use CR as an EOL marker will be read correctly
02:25.42CIA-9BRL-CAD: 03johnranderson * 10brlcad/include/bu.h: Added bu_fgets()
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03:33.36CIA-9BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/include/raytrace.h: declare the newly added rt_matrix_transform() routine for applying a matrix transformation to a given object
03:35.20CIA-9BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/librt/ (transform.c Makefile.am): initial implementation of rt_matrix_transform() routine for applying a matrix transformation to a given object. basically a convenient wrapper to not needlessly expose the rt_functab table to userland code.
03:36.44CIA-9BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/mged/edsol.c: use the rt_matrix_transform() call from librt instead of hooking into the rt_functab directly.
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08:28.16CIA-9BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/NEWS: john improved end-of-line file input processing in dxf-g
08:32.00CIA-9BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/BUGS:
08:32.00CIA-9BRL-CAD: john fixed the bug where the dxf-g converter was improperly handling files
08:32.00CIA-9BRL-CAD: encoded with a different line ending style (e.g. CR+NL or CR only). this was
08:32.00CIA-9BRL-CAD: done by implementing bu_fgets() that takes CR's into account. still need to
08:32.00CIA-9BRL-CAD: test more and probably update all of the callers of fgets() but it's there now.
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17:55.05CIA-9BRL-CAD: 03erikgreenwald * 10brlcad/src/tclscripts/mged/help.tcl: add superell and metaball to "make" help string
17:56.05CIA-9BRL-CAD: 03erikgreenwald * 10brlcad/src/mged/chgmodel.c: added metaball to the "make" command
18:03.13brlcad``Erik: superell was intentionally left off of the make help string as it's still considered experimental/incomplete
18:44.13CIA-9BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/sh/enumerate.sh: output the date and version of BRL-CAD
18:46.12CIA-9BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/sh/enumerate.sh: add = in the version string just to minimize the chance it's something that will not evaluate.
18:48.31CIA-9BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/sh/vers.sh: use a somewhat more safe means to extract the version number from configure.ac
18:53.06CIA-9BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/sh/ (enumerate.sh vers.sh): should escape the quotes since they're inside quotes
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20:45.35IriX6464 bit cygwin_nt , finally :)
20:46.37IriX64not kidding, do a /ver on me :)
20:48.11IriX64a cigarrete slaps me up side the head and says "good work, smoke em if you have em" :)
21:07.47brlcadwhat does that do?
21:08.32IriX64allows linux builds for instance that do not have cygwin functioality in them, ie they don't need cygwin1.dll et al.
21:09.32brlcadyou mean windows builds in the cygwin env that don't need that dll?
21:09.32IriX64the other way was workable but had the overhead of all that cygwin code.
21:09.38IriX64yes
21:09.43IriX64no
21:09.53IriX64wont run on windows.
21:10.03IriX64with or without the dll's.
21:10.27IriX64trying to become a unix system here :)
21:10.56brlcadyou wont or the binaries wont?
21:11.44IriX64run for instance irssi in the windows environment even with path set to dll's it simply reorts microsoft windows revision blah blah and exits. now
21:13.12brlcadso then whats it linking against if not cygwin to resolve those symbols?
21:13.38IriX64sub reports/reorts.
21:14.29IriX64there are no cygwin symbols, its a unix envronment now use the unix libraries for instance termlib.
21:15.11IriX64heh noted :)
21:15.21brlcadtermlib only gives you so much.. where's it getting things like select() from?
21:15.43brlcadif not from cygwin.. it should be some windows system library :)
21:15.52brlcadnot that that's a bad thing
21:15.56IriX64the system libraries i have a whack of them put together from gnu code mostly.
21:16.04brlcadhas nothing to do with the windows gui fwiw too
21:16.15IriX64true
21:16.35IriX64i vist www.gnu.org frequently :)
21:17.18IriX64redhat too :)
21:18.06IriX64if i leave out --without-cygwin, i can build for windows.
21:19.04IriX64was working on gcc 4.1.1 last night, my knuckles are still bleeding ;)
21:20.58IriX64IriX64@hagarsfi-f038a0 ~
21:20.58IriX64$ gcc --version
21:20.58IriX64gcc (GCC) 4.1.1
21:20.58IriX64Copyright (C) 2006 Free Software Foundation, Inc.
21:20.58IriX64This is free software; see the source for copying conditions.  There is NO
21:21.00IriX64warranty; not even for MERCHANTABILITY or FITNESS FOR A PARTICULAR PURPOSE.
21:21.02IriX64IriX64@hagarsfi-f038a0 ~
21:22.53brlcadagain with the pasting, really not necessary ..
21:23.13IriX64$wanted to make point.
21:23.25brlcadas do I
21:23.34IriX64. taken
21:24.12brlcadno reason to doubt that you didn't "really" have gcc 4.1.1 .. unless you think everyone should doubt everything you say..
21:24.29brlcador are you just talking out your ... ? ;)
21:25.03IriX64oooooo you are promoted to the head of pyshiatry aberdeen maryland. ;)
21:25.25IriX64err pyschiatry too.
21:26.14IriX64brlcad: how do I use bu_free() ? ;)
21:26.32IriX64ahhh i c bu_free(brlcad)  ;)
21:27.35brlcadyou're missing a parameter
21:27.49brlcadbu_free(brlcad, "deallocate brlcad");
21:28.17IriX64thats covered in my free but you have to return(brlcad) :)
21:28.25brlcadthe string is optionally printed if the right debug flags are enabled at run-time so you can look for specific allocations/deallocations
21:29.26IriX64err alloc.
21:29.46IriX64sobriety break... bbiab
21:30.41brlcadthe existance of the statement doesn't meant that it's going to be called, depends on the context, logic, and location
22:09.11``Erikbring to me teh b00z0rz
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23:11.48*** join/#brlcad dtidrow (n=dtidrow@c-69-255-182-248.hsd1.va.comcast.net)
Jeff Waugh - find it at freshmeat.net! Modified by Tim Riker to work with blootbot logs, split per channel, etc. irclog2html for #brlcad on 20060817

irclog2html for #brlcad on 20060817

00:52.20IriX64ermf sobriety break was a failure ;)
00:53.25IriX64virtual beer just doesn't cut it :)
01:13.13``Erik...
01:13.29``Erikyou're "special", dude :)
01:19.05IriX64heheh high praise coming from the "most special one" :)
01:26.56*** join/#brlcad IriX64_ (n=IriX64@toronto-HSE-ppp4309785.sympatico.ca)
01:27.33IriX64_``Erik you're sp "special" i decided to visit you twice :)
01:27.49IriX64_s/so/sp
01:33.36IriX64had to restore, might not be doable Brlcad i fooled my self, the whole damn environment relies on thos dll's
01:34.04IriX64however cross compiling can be done but that cygwin code is in there to doubles the binary.
01:35.54IriX64for instance a linux install of brlcad is 1.14gb :(
02:06.10IriX64check me: if i set --host --build is automatically set to i686-pc-cygwin, the configure checks all use the cygwin systems answers, however my compiler examines config.log upon execution and produces code based on the --host switch, (don't laff it really works)
02:08.40IriX64had to leave the name as gcc because not all scripts honor CC.
02:09.31IriX64suppose i could have two copies around.
02:09.46IriX64messy solution though... i forget a lot :)
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02:41.05*** part/#brlcad jano (n=point@216.115.228.148)
02:51.05IriX641+1=3 or more :)
02:52.56IriX64you people should set up an ftp server.
02:53.09IriX64that allows uploads.
02:53.32IriX64some of my by-products are interesting, would love to share them with you.
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20:32.52CIA-9BRL-CAD: 03jlowenz * 10brlcad/src/libpkg/pkg.c: added a new function: pkg_permserver_ip to support connecting to the loopback interface. involved some refactoring. not completely tested yet.
20:33.53CIA-9BRL-CAD: 03jlowenz * 10brlcad/include/pkg.h: added a new function: pkg_permserver_ip to support connecting to the loopback interface. involved some refactoring. not completely tested yet.
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Jeff Waugh - find it at freshmeat.net! Modified by Tim Riker to work with blootbot logs, split per channel, etc. irclog2html for #brlcad on 20060818

irclog2html for #brlcad on 20060818

01:26.35*** join/#brlcad jscott (n=johnscot@pool-70-17-115-114.res.east.verizon.net)
04:29.02CIA-9BRL-CAD: 03johnranderson * 10brlcad/src/conv/stl-g.c: now ignores leading white space on the first line of the STL file
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08:32.19CIA-9BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/NEWS: john adds improved beginning-of-line input processing in stl-g
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14:17.24``Erik*stretch*
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17:42.30ValarQ*chirp*
17:42.51IriX64a chick ... a dee neat :)
17:43.29ValarQjust a parrot walking on my keyboard... ;P
17:43.49IriX64thought it was your mouse squeaking :)
17:44.34ValarQnah, my mouse is broken
17:45.02IriX64doesn't sqeak anymore ? poor mouse . :)
17:45.05ValarQi tested my pneumatic cylinder on it :/
17:45.29IriX64ooooo the ball pean effect. :)
17:45.29ValarQthere was small plastic pieces in the entire room
17:46.06ValarQmaybe i get myself a trackball...
17:46.45IriX64my balls don't leave tracks :P
17:47.19ValarQa ball that tracks, not leave tracks :P
17:47.33IriX64heh
17:51.18IriX64if they do they track each other ;)
17:51.39IriX64what did colten edwards do here now?
17:52.55IriX64cavlink? why is it necessary :)
17:54.17IriX64permission to bring this thing up and load a couple dll's when its built?
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18:00.38IriX6413:59 -!- ValarQ [i=vq@81-235-190-136-no48.tbcn.telia.com]
18:00.38IriX6413:59 -!-  ircname  : Unknown
18:00.38IriX6413:59 -!-  channels : #brlcad
18:00.38IriX6413:59 -!-  server   : irc.freenode.net [http://freenode.net/]
18:00.39IriX6413:59 -!-           : is identified to services
18:00.50IriX6413:59 -!- End of WHOIS
18:01.13IriX64_works
18:01.22IriX64here too
18:01.34ValarQyou and your pastings :P
18:01.39IriX64heh
18:02.01IriX64didn't want to be told put up or shut up, headed it off at the pass :)
18:02.49ValarQnot many channels visible there
Jeff Waugh - find it at freshmeat.net! Modified by Tim Riker to work with blootbot logs, split per channel, etc. irclog2html for #brlcad on 20060819

irclog2html for #brlcad on 20060819

00:07.20*** join/#brlcad ibot (i=ibot@pdpc/supporter/active/TimRiker/bot/apt)
00:07.20*** topic/#brlcad is http://brlcad.org/ || BRL-CAD is an open source solid modeling software suite || Developers needed! Read the HACKING file for details on getting involved
01:09.21``Erikhuh? pix?
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02:07.38IriX64picture.
02:08.32IriX64are you guys actually at aberdeen?
02:08.57IriX64if so you must have amazing toys.
02:09.43``Erik<-- work sat aberdeen
02:09.47``Eriks/ s/s /
02:10.13IriX64an amazing place? are there tours?
02:10.38IriX64the mill i worked in used to have tours.
02:13.53IriX64ValarQ: did you get those last screen shots, and by the way I love your desktop :)
02:15.25IriX64through too.
02:20.23dtidrowheh
02:34.11IriX64ermf graphics work is always memory intensive (virtual memory low)
02:34.45dtidrowhow much memory do you have on that box?
02:34.55IriX64512 meg.
02:35.09dtidrowah
02:35.16dtidrow10mem[Physical : 1355MB/2026MB Free | Swap : 3463MB/3467MB Free]
02:35.26dtidrow2GB on this one  :-)
02:35.40IriX64lend some please.
02:35.47IriX64:)
02:35.48dtidrowusually means I don't have to worry much about memory problems  :-)
02:36.02dtidrowmemory is fairly cheap these days
02:36.06IriX64except parity errors :P
02:36.15dtidrowbrb
02:58.40dtidrowb
07:30.58*** join/#brlcad clock_ (i=clock@84-72-63-47.dclient.hispeed.ch)
08:07.33ValarQIriX64: pretty ugly desktop you got there :P
14:33.33*** join/#brlcad clock_ (i=clock@84-72-63-47.dclient.hispeed.ch)
14:56.43IriX64ValarQ: I admit it needs a cleanup :)
15:00.57ValarQIriX64: maybe you want my desktop theme? :)
15:02.24IriX64ValarQ:would love to have it, will it work on XP-Pro?
15:02.53ValarQno idea
15:03.00IriX64heh i'll pass then.
15:03.31ValarQit works great on my gentoo box :)
15:08.05IriX64whats the canonicalized name for that box?
15:09.15IriX64come cassie's waiting.
15:10.57IriX64version 10.0.0 just for you.
15:11.54IriX64last chance or ill build a x86-unix-freebsd one :)
15:12.33ValarQcanonicalized?
15:13.12IriX64archithecture-manufacturer-operationg system.
15:13.28IriX64blah cant spell :)
15:13.44ValarQx86_64-me-GNU then :)
15:13.56IriX64as in the example sparc64-sun-solaris64.
15:14.01IriX64ah thankyou.
15:15.29IriX64took it. in an hour we'll see.
15:16.15IriX64ValarQ: Won't be able to mail it to you though :(
15:16.21IriX64:)
15:16.22ValarQ?
15:16.30IriX64the binaries.
15:16.53ValarQthats ok, i got my own
15:17.05IriX64heh but mine are prettier.
15:17.49ValarQheh
15:18.18ValarQyou can't compete with my homemade elf-headers! :P
15:19.16IriX64shes building it.
15:21.25IriX64suppose i could have used x86_64-unix-gnu.
15:25.53IriX64for x86_64-me-gnu-gcc.......cassie.exe <==== gotta love it.
15:38.40IriX64hahahah heavy fuel ... by dire straits, on the night album.
15:43.58*** join/#brlcad IriX64_ (n=IriX64@toronto-HSE-ppp4305039.sympatico.ca)
15:44.27IriX64_btw my boxen's core is an AMD64 model 8100+
15:47.16IriX64_must go burn an offering, bbiab.
16:02.34*** join/#brlcad IriX64_ (n=IriX64@toronto-HSE-ppp4305655.sympatico.ca)
16:18.32IriX64_sigh...rebuild, i forgot to leave the cygwin code out :(
16:32.39IriX64_restarted.
16:33.25IriX64_ValarQ: wouldn't it be easeier to build your own binaries ? :)
16:36.55IriX64_Dancin in Gods country (Rebbeca Lynn Howard- Forgive album)
16:39.31IriX64_summer stars up in the sky, barefeet on the ground ;)
16:40.54IriX64_time for a cup of char bbiab.
17:25.45IriX64_cuts compile time in 1/2 leaving that cygwin code out.
17:31.54*** join/#brlcad IriX64 (n=IriX64@toronto-HSE-ppp4308715.sympatico.ca)
17:33.00IriX64ValarQ: what do you think of my artistic talents? :)
17:40.06IriX64well gnu to you 2 it built.
17:40.47IriX64installed directory is 181,703kb zipped.
17:41.55brlcadyou do realize you've been talking solo for over two and a half hours? :)
17:42.13IriX64I'm my own best friend.
17:42.17IriX64:)
17:42.19brlcadheh
17:42.31IriX64ValarQ at work?
17:42.47IriX64hey wait its the weekend.
17:43.43IriX64Tell her it's hers if she wants it.
17:44.25IriX64now to see if i cab break the home network, back later.
17:44.31IriX64can too.
18:49.38``Eriksome people REALLY shouldn't do drugs.
18:52.29*** join/#brlcad IriX64 (n=IriX64@toronto-HSE-ppp4308715.sympatico.ca)
18:54.27IriX64Ha dcc send to my self works.
18:55.42IriX64Can someone come out to play ;)
18:56.38IriX64lets build ValarQ a gentoo irssi.
18:58.52IriX64whats with irssi and perl support?
19:00.25IriX64make dist = irssi-0.8.10.tar.gz  :)
19:15.20IriX64doh!! bitchslap me, who am I to think she doesn't already have one? :)
19:16.30IriX64shouldn't go making ass umptions like that, mea culpa :)
19:18.22IriX64the difference bewteen me, and some like yourselfs, who actually work for a living, is I'm always in relax mode.
19:18.48IriX64err between, too.
19:20.57``Erikheh
19:22.17``Erikif you're bored, irix64, there's a whole laundry list of crap todo... in fact, an easy one would be to update src/librt/rt.3 and fix the description of 'a_onehit', since the documentation and code no longer jive...
19:23.33IriX64already fixed :)
19:24.09IriX64not that i'm board;)
19:26.07IriX64is that the good one twingy? ive heard a little.
19:26.19``Erikheh, not playing with the forge today, justin? :)
19:27.09IriX64``Erik? sourceforge? :)
19:27.14TwingyI've got to get my mill working before I can take the couple castings I've already made and clean them up
19:27.27``Erikno, irix, justin built a metal forge for casting stuff...
19:27.55``ErikI'd be interested in seeing one of your billets cut in half to see how clean the aluminum is :)
19:28.04IriX64whoa man after my iown heart i know steel twingy. ASI.
19:28.22Twingyhttp://js.cx/~justin/images/crucible_hot.jpg
19:28.50``Erik<-- doesn't consume much in the way of aluminum cans, but could provide a few 'tin' cans if that'd be useful
19:29.27TwingyI'm not doing any bronze yet
19:29.42``Erikokie
19:30.05``Erikwhere are you getting the scrap copper?
19:30.27IriX64the hole at the right is the heat source?
19:30.48Twingycorrect
19:31.12Twingy10G wire
19:31.14IriX64why not stereo it one at the left too would speed things up.
19:31.26Twingybecause I don't want to?
19:31.45IriX64heh ok you're the registred owner, what you say goes :)
19:31.56``Erikheh, why introduce extra equipment cost when the current solution accomplishes the task?
19:31.59Twingydamn skippy
19:32.08IriX64the roo?
19:32.37``Erikif I come across a wad of copper or think of a source, I'll pass it on... :)
19:32.43``Erik<-- only worked with aluminum
19:32.48``Erikfor forge work
19:33.26Twingyk
19:33.38Twingyyou know there's an AiC concert at power plant in october
19:33.52IriX64mmmm gold (ducking and runing)
19:34.44``Erikthat's what I heard
19:34.59``Erik98 was jabbering about it and giving away tickets
19:36.32Twingy105 has too much talking, 98 has too much commercials
19:36.48IriX64gotta see a man about a recurring leak bbiab.
19:36.52``Erikheh, both have too much talking and too much commercials
19:37.04``ErikI should get me one of them ipod thingies for my car
19:47.55IriX64Twingy you should put a drain on the bottom of that thing bingo a mini vessel.
19:50.48IriX64sun microsystems sure tries hard to sell their stuff :)
19:54.31``Erikheh, you don't know how hard until you work in a high reliability data center.
19:54.48``Erikthey send "sales engineers" that all but give you a hummer
19:59.50IriX64hah sweet gig if you can get it.
20:00.03IriX64gotta reboot see you next year :)
20:02.13Twingyoof
20:02.21Twingythose speakers are intsense
20:02.25Twingyintense
20:02.33Twingygive me a headache from the bass
20:49.13*** join/#brlcad clock_ (i=clock@84-72-63-47.dclient.hispeed.ch)
20:54.07CIA-6BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/libtclcad/tkCanvBezier.c: make sure the display isn't null before proceeding. really shouldn't ever be if we got this far, but if it is, we avoid a crash. add a localvar footer while we're at it
21:01.09CIA-6BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/libdm/ (dm-X.c dm-glx.c dm-ogl.c dm-pex.c dm-tk.c dm-wgl.c):
21:01.09CIA-6BRL-CAD: make sure we actually got a display before proceeding with the display manager
21:01.09CIA-6BRL-CAD: initialization. this prevents the display manager from crashing out quickly
21:01.10CIA-6BRL-CAD: upon startup when some condition fails (like there not being an X11 server to
21:01.10CIA-6BRL-CAD: connect to, then attempting to get the size of that display or a screen, etc)
22:07.40*** join/#brlcad IriX64 (n=IriX64@toronto-HSE-ppp4304845.sympatico.ca)
22:10.44*** join/#brlcad IriX64_ (n=Who@toronto-HSE-ppp4304845.sympatico.ca)
22:21.03IriX64The Captain said "Is that clear"? Sergeant replies i don't know her ;)
22:30.35brlcadnope, just busy working on code
22:40.44ValarQIriX64: i haven't said that
22:41.27IriX64meant Crsytal Clear. (Her I know)
22:42.18IriX64I am a soldier of fortune, in the army of the man, I have taken the coin of the realm :)
22:43.10IriX64brlcad ... man it's Sasturday. :)
22:43.19IriX64Saturday too.
22:45.06brlcadand?
22:45.56brlcadusually brl-cad, bzflag, or a variety of personal coding ventures
22:46.56IriX64phew... whats that smell...oh yeah ... stale. (Ducking and running hard)
22:49.57IriX64how big is the database for that stryker picture?
22:50.18Twingyin brl-cad or adrt?
22:50.24IriX64brl-cad
22:50.36Twingyfew hundred megs I think
22:50.54IriX64beautiful picture.
22:51.08IriX645 days though?
22:51.17Twingyyep
22:51.36IriX64suppose i should get used to 3 hour long responses then sigh ;)
22:52.01Twingysomething like 8 trillion rays
22:52.18IriX64saw that 48 cpu effort huh?
22:53.17Twingyyep
22:53.24brlcadcould probably render it on newer boxes with the new code in a day or two
22:53.31IriX64awesone
22:53.43Twingyon the pengions, yea
22:53.48Twingypenguins
22:54.08Twingyif I bothered to optimize the DoF stuff it'd go much quicker
22:54.18Twingywithout DoF it's only like 2 hours
22:54.29IriX64DoF??
22:54.39Twingydepth of field
22:54.44IriX64ty
22:57.41Twingygenerating pretty pictures gets pretty humdrum after a while though
22:58.21TwingyI find metal working to have the same effect
22:59.42IriX64metal reminds me of the steel plant.
23:00.15IriX64urff ive never seen a real live plant made of steel :)
23:00.49Twingywere you dropped on your head as a kid?
23:01.22IriX64``Erik reminds you of wall candy :)
23:02.24Twingyso that's a yes?
23:03.06IriX64heh would any self respecting idiot admit to it?
23:05.32TwingyI believe you would
23:05.53Twingyhence my asking
23:05.59IriX64that implies i have no self respect.
23:07.43IriX64now i'm brain dead and theres no going back, so lets finish the job, who's got a 9 mm? :)
23:07.58Twingyhold on, I'll forge you one, brb
23:08.02IriX64heh
23:09.01IriX64just get a piece of 1/2 pipe and stick a .45 shell into it and hit it with a hammer. :)
23:10.02Twingyso you've done this in the past...
23:10.22Twingyand failed at that too...
23:10.52brlcadwould explain a lot
23:11.05IriX64zip ;)
23:12.06Twingyyou know that's an architecture and not just a spliff right?
23:12.30IriX64mary? you here? ;)
23:16.08Twingywtf?
23:16.20Twingydude, you're starting to freak me out
23:16.35IriX64sorry. :)
23:17.01IriX64smokity break.
23:43.08IriX64CFLAGS='-without-cygwin' ./configure blah blah :)
Jeff Waugh - find it at freshmeat.net! Modified by Tim Riker to work with blootbot logs, split per channel, etc. irclog2html for #brlcad on 20060820

irclog2html for #brlcad on 20060820

01:16.40IriX64works like this, my compiler generates code for the arch and os its intended to run on *firts, but taked onto it is code for my cygwin effort, now the first instruction in the first part of the code is a NOP, which does nothing untoward if run on the machine its intended for, however on my system the os traps the invalid instruction exception and goes looking for the cygwin entry point. result ... i can run anything i build with compiling
01:17.14IriX64without compiling twice.
01:21.35IriX64the -without-cygwin (just changed it to -DWITHOUT-CYGWIN) switch produces production code.
01:22.02IriX64easier
01:22.53IriX64my compiler checks to see if its a directive else it leaves it as a macro
01:23.12IriX64i left room for lots of those :)
01:23.16Twingyhttp://www.grizzly.com/products/h7795
01:24.19TwingyI just ordered that
01:24.46IriX64you people and your bleeding edge technology ;)
01:24.49Twingysame drill will cost you $200 from dewalt or nakkita
01:25.14Twingywell, the current one I have is a 4 year old 9.6V craftsman with batteries that are next to shot
01:25.47IriX64mine still has a cord :)
01:26.24Twingycorded ones are generally ok
01:26.40Twingybut for example, when I go to install solar panels on my roof in 2 weeks, I'll need cordless
01:26.51IriX64*if there's an outlet nearby.
01:26.59IriX64see above.
01:27.46Twingy1.5Ah at 18V is generally good for putting in about 500 wood screws
01:28.29Twingywhereas my 9.6V drill will be dead after about 150
01:29.14TwingyI've also got the air drill and 2 drill presses
01:55.15IriX64shouldn't have started a gcc compile while i'm compiling brlcad, system speed now = slug.
01:57.24IriX64ah... you think i'm a poser, because i'm running mirc and saying i'm compiling brlcad. I told you this is unix high on windows :)
01:58.16IriX64but soft what tender brew whispers my name ... :)
02:03.31IriX64all kidding aside cassandra(read cygwin) is a virtual generic unix system, most stuff i compile for runs on it, trick is i have to start from source.
02:03.48IriX64oh and it is 64 bit.
02:04.54IriX64not kidding the linux bitchx craps here but if i compile for linux from source it runs here, problem is i have no one to test for the intended audience.
02:05.28Twingythat's your job
02:05.46IriX64will *you pay me for it :)
02:06.15IriX64as i said on my strange brew they work.
02:06.28IriX64will they on a real say linux box.
02:06.40Twingylike I said, that's your f'ing job
02:07.23IriX64finding a linux box you mean? (I'm poor twingy dont have your resources and no im not begging here.)
02:07.46Twingyheard of multiple partitions?
02:07.58IriX64id have to start over.
02:08.08IriX64one drive 200 gig partition.
02:08.13Twingyso run a vm
02:08.20IriX64see my windows xp is not stock.
02:08.31TwingyI doin't care
02:08.37Twingyeither use a vm
02:08.39Twingyor repartition
02:08.44Twingyor stop bitching
02:09.05IriX64join me in a malt? :)
02:09.10Twingyno
02:09.24IriX64i'll drink it myself then.
02:11.32IriX64i still have a licence for vmware, twingy thankyou.
02:13.36Twingyso use it
02:17.35IriX64guess if it runs on linux 5.2 (Redhat) it'll run on modern linux huh?
02:18.22IriX64keep your shorts on straight twingy i'm downloading vmware now.
02:19.34IriX64last time i tried this i stupidly installed os/2 warp4
02:24.49IriX64err RedHat 5.1.5
02:25.03Twingy5.2 was biltmore
02:25.17IriX64this is i think manhattan.
02:26.01IriX64hey Bud get me another beer :)
02:26.02Twingyno that was 4.2
02:27.38IriX64manhattan is 5.1 its in the book.
02:27.57Twingythe first production machine I admin'd was running 4.0
02:29.06Twingymost people don't
02:29.23Twingycorrection, most linux zealots don't
02:30.52IriX64you calling me names? ;)
02:34.53IriX64ever hear of bigstorageonline.com?
02:35.01IriX64or similar?
03:06.26*** join/#brlcad CIA-11 (i=cia@cia.navi.cx)
04:40.23Twingyhttp://members.ozemail.com.au/~lbrash/msjokes/blue-screen-of-death.gif
04:42.41IriX64did you "forge" that :)
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05:08.29*** part/#brlcad jano (n=point@216.115.228.148)
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10:00.04lg_hi
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12:31.55``Erikheh
12:32.19lg_hi
12:32.29lg_alive ;-)
12:52.51ValarQIriX64: i still don't understand why you cut every shot
12:53.23lg_?
13:03.07*** part/#brlcad lg_ (n=lg_@85.101.251.30)
13:52.12CIA-11BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/libdm/query.c: don't use the HAVE_XOPENDISPLAY define, configure doesn't provide it atm anyways. instead merge in the logic pertaining to checking for X and/or GLX into their respective sections.
13:54.07CIA-11BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/libdm/tcl.c:
13:54.07CIA-11BRL-CAD: copy the name/port of the x11 server into a temporary buffer. this avoids some
13:54.07CIA-11BRL-CAD: odd stack corruption that is probably related to a bug somewhere else. this is
13:54.07CIA-11BRL-CAD: of course just masking tape over one of the symptoms more than likely.
13:56.55CIA-11BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/mged/ged.c: if mged was started in interactive mode and fails to create a display manager, revert to classic mode.
14:10.59CIA-11BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/mged/ged.c: break message into two lines on abort.
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Jeff Waugh - find it at freshmeat.net! Modified by Tim Riker to work with blootbot logs, split per channel, etc. irclog2html for #brlcad on 20060821

irclog2html for #brlcad on 20060821

00:30.34*** join/#brlcad IriX64 (n=IriX64@toronto-HSE-ppp4308317.sympatico.ca)
00:33.37IriX64if you could have brlcad on any platform you don't already support what would it be?
00:35.11IriX64canonicalized please.
00:37.38IriX64c2-cray-unicos all right? ;)
00:44.29IriX64recompiled gcc last evening needs a real workout :)
00:46.12IriX64Twingy... got vmware installed but every time i ask for a licence their server sends it but it never arrives, tried three different e-mail addresses, just goes to digital heaven or something.
00:54.40IriX64ValarQ: because my handy little screen capture program behaves that way :)
01:00.51*** join/#brlcad pra5ad (n=prasad@pool-151-196-137-196.balt.east.verizon.net)
01:01.36pra5ad"Turn this b**ch motherf***er LEFT!!"
01:01.47pra5adSoaP was hilarious
01:07.22*** join/#brlcad BrownBear (n=nathanie@74.137.58.249)
01:39.45brlcadIriX64: actually, I've been wanting to put together a BeOS/ZetaOS build for quite some time
01:40.24brlcadI have discs for them sitting right over (*reaches*) there, but have yet to find a suitable machine to install it onto
01:46.58BrownBearhello, anybody willing to give a hand with an install problem?
01:58.51IriX64brlcad: those are both os's i need arch and os.
01:59.04IriX64:)
01:59.46IriX64BrownBear: perhaps if you stated your problem...
02:01.09BrownBearthanks IriX64, just making sure people are awake before I start rambling.
02:01.29BrownBearI'm going through a make right now that almost looks promising, I'll get back to you quickly if it doesn't go well this time
02:02.02IriX64what arch/os?
02:03.21IriX64Zeta? how bout alpha/omega systems. :)
02:03.50IriX64The ZetaOs are they still developing it?
02:07.20brlcadzetaos is pretty new
02:07.32BrownBearOk, it failed again.  Whenever I try to make after running ./configure, it gives out errors related to tk
02:07.43brlcadBrownBear: someone is always listening and will eventually respond if you hang in the channel long enough
02:07.53brlcadBrownBear: are you using a source dist or CVS?
02:07.58BrownBearsource
02:08.03brlcadwhat ver?
02:08.14BrownBear7.8.2
02:08.32brlcadthe errors related to Tk are probably X11 symbols/declarations missing
02:08.45brlcaddo you have X11 headers/libs installed?
02:09.13brlcadif this is a debian/ubuntu system, there's a separate apt for them
02:09.17BrownBearthat's a good question, one that I'm sure is "no"
02:09.33brlcadwhat's the OS?
02:09.49BrownBeardebian
02:09.52brlcad)
02:10.18brlcadyeah, that's almost certainly the problem then
02:10.56BrownBearcool.  should i go for the libx11-6 stuff or the xlibs-data?
02:11.12IriX64whats the error say the first one (pardon brlcad)
02:11.15brlcadi forget the name of the package to install, think it depends whether you're xorg or xfree and some other detail..
02:11.59BrownBearthe first error i get is:
02:12.00BrownBeartk.h:98:23: error: X11/Xlib.h: No such file or directory
02:12.00BrownBearIn file included from tkPort.h:20,
02:12.00BrownBear<PROTECTED>
02:12.00BrownBeartk.h:574: error: syntax error before 'Window'
02:12.09BrownBearthen it kinda goes on from there for about 600 more lines
02:12.12brlcadyeah, missing X11 header
02:12.24brlcadthen it just dumps about every X11 symbol under the sun
02:12.37brlcadthat's a -dev package iirc
02:13.48IriX64shouldnt even configure.
02:13.49BrownBearcool, i appreciate it fellas.  i'll try installing those and see where it goes
02:14.22IriX64try --without-x
02:14.58BrownBeari can appreciate the "wait for a response".  I used to run a jeep channel on undernet, could go hours and hours without a sord being said, then it was 25 voices all at once
02:16.15brlcaddon't use --without-x
02:16.33brlcadthat would probably work, but it disables some aspects that you probably want
02:16.42brlcadBrownBear: I think it's xlibs-dev
02:17.46BrownBearthanks brlcad, i apt'd libx11-dev cause it popped up in my search, if it doesn't work, i'll give xlibs a try
02:21.36brlcadhopefully not mixing xfree stuff with xorg stuff ;)
02:22.00brlcadshould still work header-wise, but it can cause problems if you link with the wrong library
02:22.06brlcadguess you'll find out ;)
02:23.10BrownBeari got a rude awakening when i did a dist-upgrade and found that i lost all x abilities
02:23.26BrownBearhad to rebuild it all, believe it's xorg now
02:24.55BrownBeari'm watching make build tk stuff right now, maybe i got lucky?
02:25.07BrownBearthat's a big negative
02:25.14BrownBearbut i got much further this time
02:27.04brlcadprobably got to a link phase and it errored?
02:27.14brlcad<PROTECTED>
02:27.35brlcadthose are the only two system assumptions that come to mind
02:27.44BrownBear./.libs/libtk.so: undefined reference to `XSetInputFocus'
02:27.44BrownBear./.libs/libtk.so: undefined reference to `XFreePixmap'
02:27.44BrownBear./.libs/libtk.so: undefined reference to `XCreateGlyphCursor'
02:27.53brlcadahh yeah, link phase
02:28.06brlcadyou did run ./configure again, yes?
02:28.11BrownBearyup
02:28.16BrownBearand make clean before
02:28.34brlcaddidn't need that, but configure yes ;)
02:29.13brlcadthat implies some other pacakge still missing, X11 libraries (Xlib)
02:29.29brlcadthey're separate from the -dev headers
02:29.38BrownBeari'm confused, which package is right for an xorg system, libx11-dev or xlibs-dev?
02:30.52brlcadasking the wrong dev if you want to know for sure -- what's their respective description?
02:31.24BrownBearxlibs-dev - X Window System client library development files dummy package
02:31.24BrownBearlibx11-dev - X11 client-side library (development headers)
02:32.26brlcad"sounds" like the latter, but then I'm no debian expert
02:32.32brlcadwhat does it say for xorg-x11-devel
02:32.43brlcadare you not running X11 already?
02:34.22brlcadlocate libX11 | grep X11R6/lib
02:36.16BrownBearyes, I have X11 running
02:36.31BrownBearhad to dig to make sure
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02:41.24BrownBearweird, i asked it to install xlibs-dev, had pm-dev as a depend, which had xfree86-common as a dependancy
02:41.53brlcadsounds like that might not be the one then
02:41.58brlcadif you really are running xorg
02:42.33BrownBeari hope not, cause it's asking to download 904MB
02:42.44brlcadreally don't want to mix the two up .. maybe asking around in #debian before proceeding blind :)
02:43.16brlcadfor what it's worth, the linux binaries as posted for 7.8.2 should actually run fine on debian
02:44.20BrownBeari tried those, and had a problem with mged not finding libtermio.so.19
02:44.31BrownBearthought this would fix it, but has led to one problem after another
02:48.43BrownBeari've read that linking to that file should fix the problem but have had little luck
02:51.13brlcadif that's the only library, you might get away with just compiling libtermio
02:51.31brlcadcd src/libtermio && make
02:52.44brlcadif that works cleanly, run 'make install' after you have installed the binary brl-cad that complains and it should theoretically be good to go
02:53.01brlcaddo you still have the binary installed?
02:54.19BrownBeari have it untarred, but i was under the impression that all one needed to do was copy the usr/brlcad directory over to /usr/bin then export PATH........
02:54.34brlcadnot exactly
02:54.52brlcadyou copy the usr/brlcad dir to /usr/. (so you end up with /usr/brlcad)
02:55.07brlcadthen add /usr/brlcad/bin to your PATH
02:55.40brlcadadding it to your path is actually optional - you can directly run apps by specifying the full path, e.g. /usr/brlcad/bin/mged
02:55.56BrownBearroger
02:56.06brlcadif you have it untarred, what does this report:  nm usr/brlcad/bin/mged
02:56.09BrownBearand when i do that, out comes "can not open shared library...." blah blah
02:56.27brlcadit will not run until it is installed correctly into /usr/brlcad
02:56.55brlcad(i.e. you cannot run it from usr/brlcad (note the lack of the root /)
02:57.21BrownBearthe nm usr/brlcad/bin/mged command spits out lots and lots and lots of stuff
02:57.37brlcadcan you paste it to pastebin?
02:57.52brlcad~pastebin
02:57.59ibothmm... pastebin is a place to paste your stuff without flooding the channel - try http://pastebin.com/ (BROKEN AND SUCKING NUTS), or http://pastebin.ca, or http://channels.debian.net/paste, or for #oe use http://oe.pastebin.com, or http://bzflag.pastebin.ca/, or http://paste.lisp.org/ for the lisp/scheme nuts, or http://paste-it.net
03:03.38brlcadno luck?
03:03.57BrownBearhttp://bzflag.pastebin.ca/141756
03:04.02BrownBearresponding kinda slow
03:04.35brlcadgah, i meand ldd, not nm :)
03:05.49BrownBeari thought 2000 lines was a little too much, but who knows.... :)
03:06.43BrownBearhttp://bzflag.pastebin.ca/141767
03:07.43brlcadthat looks mostly good .. try installing it .. rm -rf /usr/brlcad && mv usr/brlcad /usr/brlcad
03:08.13brlcadthen run ldd /usr/brlcad/bin/mged
03:09.10BrownBearshoudl it be in /usr/brlcad or /usr/bin/brlcad, or does it matter?
03:09.54brlcadit does matter
03:09.58brlcad/usr/brlcad
03:10.19brlcadjust like how you have /usr/X11R6 and /usr/local ... this is /usr/brlcad
03:10.31brlcadand each of those has a bin inside
03:10.33CIA-11BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/ (6 files in 2 dirs): s/RT_RESOURCE_CHECK/RT_CK_RESOURCE/g .. we really don't need two macros that do the exact same check. consolidate to just one sans a deprecation warning, using the prevalent CK convention instead.
03:15.02BrownBearlooks just about the same, http://bzflag.pastebin.ca/141774
03:15.41BrownBearactually, no it doesn't
03:15.42brlcadnot at all the same
03:15.44BrownBearlooks much better
03:15.47brlcadthat's fully resolved
03:15.49brlcadit should run
03:16.14brlcad/usr/brlcad/bin/mged
03:16.21brlcadOR
03:16.27brlcadexport PATH=/usr/brlcad/bin:$PATH
03:16.28brlcadmged
03:16.55BrownBearah, so close
03:16.57BrownBearexport PATH=/usr/brlcad/bin:$PATH
03:17.08BrownBearwell, that's not at all what I meant to post
03:17.16BrownBearnathaniel@debian:/usr/brlcad$ error getting working directory name: no such file or directory
03:17.17BrownBearMGED Aborted.
03:17.46BrownBearthere it is
03:17.51BrownBeari was still in the /usr/bin directory
03:18.05BrownBearwow cool, it is actually running
03:18.11BrownBearthank you so very much brlcad
03:18.52brlcadno problem, glad to hear it's working
03:19.04BrownBeari've been waiting to try this for months
03:19.27brlcadyou've found the tutorials, quick reference sheets, and other materials on brlcad.org already I hope?
03:19.31BrownBearare you a maintainer of the brlcad software/sourceforge sites?
03:19.35BrownBearyes i have
03:19.37BrownBearthank you
03:19.45brlcadif your interested in getting involved in the project, we're always looking for help ;)
03:19.52brlcadyeah, I'm the lead dev
03:20.14BrownBeari don't know anything about programming, but i think i have some good notes on why this wouldn't work for me <all my own ignorance, as usual>
03:20.34BrownBeari could write them up and submit them to you or whomever it would be appropriate
03:20.49brlcadthat would be great
03:20.55BrownBearmaybe it could help other people, since i've seen this linking issue with the binaries talked about before on the help site
03:21.24brlcadeven negative criticism if it can be worded in some useful/directional/productive manner is highly appreciated
03:22.13BrownBearwas this the software once used at FMC for the Bradley?
03:22.24brlcadthe more involved helping design and steer its development, the better imho
03:22.51brlcadFMC?
03:23.04brlcadsomething? materiel command
03:23.19brlcadit was heavily used on the bradley
03:24.10brlcadit's still the definitive cad system in production use for vulnerability and lethality analysis, used by the tri-service community as part of a JTCG directive
03:24.12BrownBearFMC was Farm Machinery Corporation, they made the M2 and M3 Bradleys for years before being bought by United Defense LLP, which was recently bought by BAE Systems
03:25.05brlcadahh, united defense
03:25.53BrownBearMy dad has been working ont he M3 program since I was a little one
03:26.09brlcadyes, it was .. though there are other models of the bradley out there for different purposes .. manufacturing and analyses being the predominant two that come to mind -- brl-cad models are generally heavily focused on the analytic side
03:26.09BrownBearguess it's been about 24/25 years now
03:26.30brlcadbrl-cad's been under development for about that long ;-)
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03:49.23xipponkdoes brlcad not have a drawing/cad interface?
03:49.51brlcadxipponk: minimal 2D support via a sketch primitive
03:50.16xipponkwhat's it called?
03:50.17brlcadyou can generate unannotated hidden-line images very easily
03:50.36brlcadexample: http://ftp.brlcad.org/images/havoc_rtedge.png
03:50.41brlcadwhat's what called?
03:51.12brlcadbrl-cad supports a variety of primitives, http://ftp.brlcad.org/tmp/primitives/Primitives3_grouped_labels.png
03:51.44brlcadone of them is a sketch, a 2D outline of a shape -- the mged solid modeler has a relatively simple interface for creating and modifying sketch objects
03:51.55brlcadthose sketch objects can then be extruded to create solid geometry
03:52.04xipponkcool.
03:52.18xipponknot mucho documentation i'm afraid.
03:52.20brlcadin general, though, that's not the modeling approach used as it is 2D-centric
03:52.47BrownBearsolidworks can spoil ya
03:52.50brlcadthere's fairly extensive documentation, depends where you're looking and what you're looking for
03:53.09xipponkhehehe
03:53.15xipponki was looking at the tutorial
03:53.23brlcadBrownBear: that much is true, but then brl-cad's price tag is certainly a little bit better ;)
03:53.54BrownBeartrue, true
03:54.03brlcadxipponk: i *think* the principles guide might cover sketching
03:54.33brlcadit really is a minimal inteface though -- doesn't compare in the least to even something like qcad
03:55.20BrownBeari found qcad to be slow, and buggy
03:55.38brlcadthat primitive mostly exists to support models that are imported from 2D based packages (e.g. autocad, or the 2D variety in packages like unigraphics)
03:55.57brlcadso that they can be manipulated, visualized, etc
03:56.30brlcadcreating one from scratch using brl-cad existing sketch editor is not something I'd want to do myself
03:57.01xipponkhow do you go about it then, brlcad?
03:57.12brlcadwe focus mostly on the 3D aspects, on numerical stability, on ray-trace/analysis performance, etc
03:57.13xipponki was wondering if i could export qcad sketches to brlcad
03:57.33brlcadqcad exports dxf, brl-cad has a dxf-g importer
03:57.56brlcadit should preserve the 2D sketches if they are well formed
03:58.03xipponkokay.
03:58.18xipponki thought it might be a nice shortcut :D
03:58.38brlcadwe don't get that request very often, though, so consider it non-stable
03:59.24xipponk<PROTECTED>
03:59.49brlcadwe generally go about it by constructing in 3D, not 2D -- usually focus on CSG models combining the base primitives to form shapes, assemble those into regions/parts and those parts into groups/assemblies
04:00.21xipponkthrough the mged commandprompt right?
04:01.04brlcadcommand prompt, outboard tools assist certain complex operations, the gui and menus provide a lot of functionality
04:01.44xipponkoutboard tools?
04:01.47xipponki must be missing something.
04:01.50brlcadit's not a discoverable interface, users are traditionally trained before they can use the modeler  (as one usually is to touch unigraphics/proe/solidworks/etc)
04:02.19brlcadyou're probably reading docs on mged.. brl-cad is a system, mged is but one of over 400 tools
04:02.19xipponkoh i see.
04:02.44brlcadmind you, mged is one of the most useful/prominent right now, and is the primary gui solid modeling interface
04:03.02brlcadbut there are other facilities and tools too that focus on specific tasks
04:03.54brlcadexample model built entirely out of CSG operations on primitives, http://ftp.brlcad.org/images/t62c.jpg
04:04.24xipponkhmm.
04:04.28xipponkthat doesn't look simple.
04:05.19brlcadyou wouldn't be able to approach a task like that tank without several weeks of brl-cad training, and the modeling effort would still take you a couple weeks.. that's a fairly highly detailed model
04:05.36xipponkye gads.
04:05.37brlcadincludes everything inside too, not just the pretty outside
04:05.48xipponkand all this done through the mged interface?
04:05.55brlcadas well as the terrain and other volumetric effects
04:07.10brlcadnot all through mged, but probably 90% .. the tracks were modeled using another tool that helps replicate objects along a spline
04:07.35brlcadi'm sure the terrain was processed using a couple other data manipulation tools in brl-cad and then read in by mged
04:07.45brlcadeverything else was though
04:07.55xipponkinteresting.
04:08.43brlcaddescribing the material properties, the colors, the construction hierarchy, how to compose primitives into things that look like wheels and turrets, and hulls, etc
04:09.16xipponkthe mged file for that. ..
04:09.19xipponkwhere do i find it?
04:09.28brlcadnot public releasable, sorry
04:09.35brlcadwish I could actually
04:09.45xipponkah it's actual brl/arl material?
04:10.09brlcadI've been trying to get release approval for one of the air force models of a russian tank that is just splendidly beautiful, but not getting too far there
04:10.21brlcadthat one, yes
04:10.29brlcadthe image is releasable, though ;-)
04:10.52xipponk<PROTECTED>
04:10.59xipponkthe image ... is a tease!
04:11.07brlcadheh, yep
04:11.22brlcadthat helicopter in the first image is in the distribution
04:11.36brlcadthat's a real model of a russian attack helicopter, albeit slightly dumbed down
04:11.53brlcads/slightly//
04:12.30xipponkslightly?
04:12.52xipponkit's missing the cannons?
04:13.25brlcadlets just say that it probably doesn't have as much detail as the real deal, but it's still a rather nice model to play with
04:15.45brlcadwelp, I must depart .. if you have a question just post and lurk and someone should eventually respond -- cheers
04:16.22xipponkthanks man.
04:25.21IriX64nice tank, and the conversation explains why I test with other peoples ms april.g files (read im not brlcad trained :))
04:29.13IriX64c2-cray-unicos-g++  <----get real :)
04:30.50IriX64he rolled the dice, and tada a pair of 7's came up ;)
04:32.24IriX6412:30am and i'm talking to my self again, i'll probably spend time in the brig for this.
04:51.44BrownBearsay i want to open up and view ktank.g in the db/ folder, how would i do that instead of doing draw part1, draw part2, etc....?
05:33.44IriX64load it and do a tops then e "something"
05:34.00IriX64in mged
06:28.27IriX64``Erik: c2 build done.
06:33.16IriX64ValarQ: I hope you're awake.
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07:29.35``ErikBrownBear: ktank is weird in that there is no toplevelg grouping... it's easy to make one, though, "g all.g u tank u g17 u computer u engine" I think should do it
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Jeff Waugh - find it at freshmeat.net! Modified by Tim Riker to work with blootbot logs, split per channel, etc. irclog2html for #brlcad on 20060822

irclog2html for #brlcad on 20060822

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01:56.23CIA-11BRL-CAD: 03johnranderson * 10brlcad/src/ (tclscripts/helplib.tcl librt/wdb_obj.c):
01:56.23CIA-11BRL-CAD: Modified wdb_tree_cmd() and wdb_print_node() to provide the capabilities
01:56.23CIA-11BRL-CAD: the help command cliams for the "tree" command. Also modified the
01:56.24CIA-11BRL-CAD: helplib entry so that it agrees with the help message. This fixes bug
01:56.24CIA-11BRL-CAD: #1480522.
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05:33.51IriX64BrownBear: did you get it working?
05:35.14IriX64a little delayed... x86_64-me-gnu (certainly) ;)
05:36.53IriX64general question, why does freebsd not use .exe?
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07:41.14IriX64anybody awake?
07:44.34ValarQi am
07:44.55ValarQwhy the heck are you cutting all your screenshots?!?
07:45.16IriX64explain cutting.
07:45.28IriX64you mean cutting off?
07:45.39IriX64or sending to you?
07:46.24ValarQi mean that the shots isn't complete screenshots
07:46.38ValarQthe right edge has been cut in almost every shot
07:46.45IriX64dont know how to drive 5-clicks very well yet.
07:47.16ValarQtake shot25.jpg for example
07:47.24IriX64just a sec.
07:47.28ValarQi guess your screenresolution is 1024x768
07:47.35ValarQbut the image is only 937x725
07:48.52IriX64function of the 5-click program.
07:49.53ValarQok, i recomend imagemagick for taking screenshots
07:50.10IriX64i *bought 5-clicks :)
07:50.22ValarQbad for you :P
07:50.27IriX64cheap tho. :)
07:51.05IriX64installing linux64 brlcad.
07:51.07ValarQi got imagemagick for free with my internetconnection :)
07:51.30IriX64heh yeah but your in ther land of milk and honey :)
07:51.52ValarQyep
07:52.02ValarQno reason not to :o)
07:52.12ValarQ(not for me anyway)
07:52.34IriX64honey is a state of fluidity ;)
07:53.27ValarQhave you tested XGL?
07:53.42IriX64XGL?
07:53.49IriX64obviously not.
07:53.57IriX64:)
07:54.48ValarQit's a new fancy X11 server that uses OpenGL as backend
07:55.56IriX64I have an xwingl that i play with.
07:56.01IriX64xwingl
07:56.17IriX64doesnt look right in lower case :)
07:56.56ValarQhttp://www.novell.com/linux/xglrelease/ <- contains some interesting videos
07:58.09IriX64thankyou ill go visit.
08:08.40IriX64interesting, dunno what all the files mean tho.
08:09.35ValarQwhat files?
08:11.27IriX64wanted the source tarball didnt know which one it is *shrug*
08:12.00ValarQok, you should probably look for some install instructions for your system
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08:12.44ValarQhttp://gentoo-wiki.com/HOWTO_XGL  if you use gentoo for example
08:12.55IriX64in time :)
08:13.20ValarQyeah, i didn't expect you to install it right away
08:17.21IriX64heh thank you for understanding as bartles and james would say ;)
08:19.26IriX64you like gentoo don't you?
08:20.15ValarQyeah, gentoo works great
08:20.54IriX64supports all your hardware (I hate driver hell)?
08:21.38ValarQwell, i use the linux kernel, so yes
08:22.21IriX64linux-gnu then?
08:22.25ValarQyeah
08:22.36IriX6464 bit?
08:22.39ValarQyes
08:22.43ValarQAMD64 X2
08:23.06IriX64AMD64 3800+
08:23.09ValarQ4400+ here
08:23.19IriX64show off :)
08:23.29ValarQit's a real monster :)
08:23.46IriX64careful it doesn't bite ;)
08:24.32ValarQit only bites scriptkiddies :o)
08:24.50IriX64ouch it just bit me :)
08:26.40IriX64farg it i'll let brlcad fix it ;)
08:27.02IriX64my bug that is the other i'll just get a band aid :)
08:31.53clock_what's a band aid?
08:37.59IriX64the concert they held for 3rd world countries :P
08:39.42IriX64what's your "Heavy Fuel"?
08:41.33IriX64I mean what make you run "cool" ?
08:41.58IriX64obviously im listening to music here.
08:42.02IriX64:)
08:42.09IriX64makes me think.
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11:34.09brlcadfix what?
11:56.12``Erik`/det
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15:36.40brlcadhmm.. so what sounds better for separating out the newer run-time library downloads from the rest of the regular release downloads?
15:37.08brlcad"BRL-CAD Runtime Libraries" or "BRL-CAD Development Kits" or "BRL-CAD Runtime Kits", etc
15:37.49brlcadexample, under windows, there is a download that is just a single brlcad.dll for windows with associated documentation
15:38.10brlcadhaving that in the "BRL-CAD for Windows" is causing way too many problems
15:49.57clock_BRLCAD Visual Builder ;-)
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18:36.21CIA-11BRL-CAD: 03bob1961 * 10brlcad/src/tclscripts/lib/Dm.tcl: If on Windows, change default display manager type to wgl instead of ogl.
18:58.56CIA-11BRL-CAD: 03bob1961 * 10brlcad/src/libdm/dm-wgl.c: Removed call to Tk_IsMapped (i.e. it was being called with a Display pointer instead of a Tk_Window. Also added code to provide an option to color back facing polgons differently than front facing ones.
19:11.04CIA-11BRL-CAD: 03bob1961 * 10brlcad/src/tclscripts/archer/Archer.tcl: Added the option to effectively toggle two sided lighting. Added a -noWaitCursor option to the draw method.
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19:42.10CIA-11BRL-CAD: 03bob1961 * 10brlcad/src/archer/ (archer archer.bat): Added code to handle an argument.
19:44.41CIA-11BRL-CAD: 03bob1961 * 10brlcad/src/libtclcad/tkImgFmtPIX.c: Include fb.h
19:47.49CIA-11BRL-CAD: 03bob1961 * 10brlcad/misc/win32-msvc7/librt/librt.vcproj: Added g_metaball.c to the build.
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20:39.18CIA-11BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/libtclcad/Makefile.am: libtclcad depends on libfb for tkImgFmtPIX fb_() image sizing functions
20:42.22CIA-11BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/NEWS: added archer geometry/view loading via command-line arg
21:18.39CIA-11BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/libdm/query.c: oops, declare dpy as a Display
21:19.35CIA-11BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/libdm/ (dm-X.c dm-glx.c dm-ogl.c dm-tk.c dm-wgl.c): Tk_IsMapped takes a tkwin, not a Display, so give it what it wants for the sanity check. add another for the mainwindow too even.
21:29.45CIA-11BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/NEWS: john fixed the tree command so that it now matches the documentation, by adding support for -i and -o. this fixes sf bug 1480522 'Tree cmd not accepting args' as reported by david lowman.
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Jeff Waugh - find it at freshmeat.net! Modified by Tim Riker to work with blootbot logs, split per channel, etc. irclog2html for #brlcad on 20060823

irclog2html for #brlcad on 20060823

00:08.40BrownBearq
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01:49.50CIA-11BRL-CAD: 03lbutler * 10brlcad/src/libbu/malloc.c:
01:49.50CIA-11BRL-CAD: bu_prmem() was printing the number of available slots in the memory debug
01:49.50CIA-11BRL-CAD: table. This was easily mis-interpreted as the number of memory allocations.
01:49.50CIA-11BRL-CAD: Since this is a diagnostic for how the memory debug table is being manipulated
01:49.50CIA-11BRL-CAD: and not something the average user/programmer wants to see, the value
01:49.52CIA-11BRL-CAD: was removed from bu_prmem()'s output. Minor benefit: The table now prints
01:49.54CIA-11BRL-CAD: one less line, so output is more compact.
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14:53.42CIA-9BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/libdm/dm-pex.c: missed pex interface, use xtkwin insted of dpy with Tk_IsMapped()
15:35.31CIA-9BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/tclscripts/archer/.cvsignore: ignore the auto-generated files so they aren't accidentally committed to cvs
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18:47.50IriX64brlcad: question, are adrt and x11 mutually exclusive?
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20:52.38``Erikadrt uses SDL, it should work fine with x11
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21:18.48``Erikhttp://www.libsdl.org
21:20.27IriX64thenk yeah. :)
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23:23.22IriX64``Erik sdl install blew up on me :)
23:23.22IriX64but thanks.
23:23.23brlcadadrt has nothing to do with the x11 detection
23:23.23brlcadrelies upon successful detection of sdl and python
23:23.23IriX64but it *wants sdl and python.
23:23.23IriX64whoa mind reader :)
23:23.40``Erikheh
23:23.44``Erikwhy are you looking at adrt?
23:23.49brlcadeven after detecting sdl and python, it's not likely going to compile without manual massaging and build fixing
23:24.21``Erikin like six months, adrt will be superceded, hopefully
23:24.21IriX64by?
23:24.21``Erikwhich is why I've psent the last two days in all-day meetings and will spend tomorrow there, too
23:24.21``Erikuh, it doesn't have an official name yet
23:24.42IriX64ok
23:24.47``Eriksince you don't know what adrt is about, telling you anything about this new project would be useless for you
23:24.53``Eriktrust me, don't bust your nuts over adrt just yet
23:24.53IriX64truvth ;)
23:24.59pra5addid the interactive rt presentation continue today?
23:25.19``Erikum, it was a recap of yesterdays material, for eds benefit
23:25.32pra5adnm then
23:25.42``Erikand mal showed us some of his stuff running on a sempron 1.6ghz
23:26.12``Erikgot like ~3fps on the bigassed cathedral model
23:26.13pra5addammit
23:26.16``Erikand a couple fps on an m1 with several colored lights
23:26.17pra5adthe force told me that i had missed something
23:26.18``Erikbut in the very near future, I can show you that
23:26.19pra5adk
23:36.46``Erikwe got a cvs repo set up for it today, tomorrow we should have the code in the repo and my automake stuff bolted in
23:36.48``ErikMAYBE we'll have it working on a non-linux/amd64 arch
23:36.49``Erikor maybe I'll just have to find that leenewx amd64 box we have somewhere :)
23:36.57pra5adit's with tegt
23:36.59pra5adthe dual opt
23:37.00``ErikI doubt he'd be upset if we came over to run a program on his box
23:37.04``Eriksupposedly it works on ia32 leenewx
23:37.06pra5adi doubt he's using it at all
23:37.07``Erikmaybe he shoved it in the office of someone who pissed him off...
23:37.08``Erikspace heater that sounds like a fucking military jet, hehehehe
23:37.11pra5adwhere the hell is the fedex distro center around here
23:37.13pra5admissed a package
23:37.18pra5adcan i go pick it up now?
23:37.38``Erikum, the closest fedex point last I heard was way down in like essex off of 40
23:37.40``Erikthat day you got in the wreck, I had to drive down there to pick up some important documents
23:37.42``Erikwith all the stoplights out
23:37.43``Erik:(
23:37.43pra5adtracking says it came from white marsh
23:37.48``Erikum, meh, it was off of 40
23:37.50``Erikand way way way sotuh
23:37.51pra5ader what wreck
23:37.51``Erikit might've technically been whitemarsh
23:37.53``Erikyour old car? no?
23:38.03pra5ad5/2004?
23:38.03``Erikyeah
23:38.07pra5adwhen i wasn't working at arl?
23:38.09``Eriko.O
23:38.09``ErikI think it was '04
23:38.11``Erikin hurricane season
23:38.11``Erikyou whacked your car on 40, right?
23:38.14pra5adoh
23:38.15pra5adnah, near college park
23:38.17``Erikoh, shit, power musta been out everywhere
23:38.18pra5adprolly
23:38.18``Erikcuz there was a harsh hurrican cutting through and I had to drive down 40 to get the thing from the fedex station in time
23:38.19pra5ad2 girls had their car slammed against one of the bldgs
23:38.20pra5adboth died
23:38.20pra5adsisters too :(
23:38.22``Erik:/
23:38.25``Erikit'd be nice if this country weren't so car-centric.
23:38.49``Erikif I could take light rail to work, I SO would
23:38.49pra5adif i moved to dc, i would be able to
23:38.49pra5adof course that means i'd have to get up at 5
23:38.49pra5adwhich is a no no
23:38.49dtidrow_workheh
23:38.49``Erikhahaha
23:38.49``Erik5 is the time to go to sleep, dude
23:38.50pra5adexactly
23:38.50pra5adAug 23, 2006         10:29 AM      
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23:42.22``Erikfedex's website has a listing of locations
23:42.22pra5ad<PROTECTED>
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23:42.30pra5addoh!
23:42.31pra5adsorry for the spam
23:42.32``Eriklook up the facility, see if they're open, call 'em to see if they have your package... drive like the wind o.O
23:43.07pra5adwhy dont they have a damn system which tells u were the package is
23:43.10pra5adonline
23:43.21``Erikerm, the tracking thing kinda does
23:43.44dtidrow_workheh - it should display the gps coords of the truck so you can go and find it  ;-)
23:43.46pra5adYES!
23:43.50dtidrow_workwith real-time updates  :-)
23:43.50``Erikhm, yeah, so robbers can intercept the trucks easier?
23:43.56``Erik:)
23:44.01dtidrow_workof course
23:44.04``Erikor the buzzword of the day, tarrsts
23:44.06``Erikwe're fighting a WAR on TAR, damnit!!!
23:44.10``Erikheh
23:44.14dtidrow_worktar as in the command?
23:44.15``Erikno, the roof goup
23:44.15``Erikgoop
23:44.17dtidrow_workah
23:44.18``Eriktar rhymes with jar, and the gov't seems to be looking to suck java's dick lately. :(
23:44.21``Erikfor "portability".
23:44.29dtidrow_worknow now...
23:44.30``Erik*grouse*
23:44.43dtidrow_workwould you rather have C#?
23:44.49``Erikhah.. I'd rather not have mono, thank you very much :)
23:45.02``Erikkeep your herpes to yourself :)
23:45.19dtidrow_worklol
23:45.20dtidrow_workI trust M$ to fsck up C# if mono makes a big enough dent
23:45.20``Eriklike j++?
23:45.21dtidrow_workexactly
23:45.22``Erikand in 20 years, dotgnu will almost be ready to start, uh, somoething
23:45.27``Erikbut only support hurd
23:45.27dtidrow_workrofl
23:45.32``Erikwhich will almost be ready to start, uh, something
23:45.35dtidrow_workthey'll be starting to start  ;-)
23:45.40``Erikaawwwww yyyyyeeeeeaaaaaaaahhhhhhhhhh
23:46.11pra5adgah
Jeff Waugh - find it at freshmeat.net! Modified by Tim Riker to work with blootbot logs, split per channel, etc. irclog2html for #brlcad on 20060824

irclog2html for #brlcad on 20060824

00:01.56pra5adit's next to the mall
00:01.56pra5adcan only pick it up friday
00:02.04pra5adbastards
00:02.05``Erikis it right off of 40?
00:02.05``Erikmebbe I didn't drive as far sotuh as I thought
00:02.05dtidrow_workwhat's in the package?
00:02.06pra5adwell it's on 7
00:02.25pra5adso yes, close to 40
00:02.25``Erikhis authentic swedish penis pump.
00:02.31dtidrow_workroflol
00:02.31pra5adswedish? pff
00:02.39pra5adswahilian
00:02.40``Erikhah
00:02.40``Erikit was an austin powers reference, twat :D
00:02.40``Erikcuz I'm hip and modern, baybee, yeaaahhhh
00:02.41``Erik*dance*
00:02.41``Erikday long meetings fuck with my brain.
00:02.42dtidrow_workyou still have a brain afterwards?
00:02.43``Erikyes
00:02.43``ErikI pickle it in the evenings :)
00:02.50``Erikand this was the second full day
00:02.50``Eriktomorrow is the last full day
00:02.54dtidrow_workouch
00:02.57pra5adthat's what was inside sean's picked jar
00:02.57pra5adpickle
00:03.04dtidrow_work3 days of meetings? eeeek
00:03.19``Erikand I've lived in japan and korea, I usually gross poeple out with what I've eaten! :D
00:04.38``Erikcomputer designed diesel car hit 328mph, neat
00:06.11``Erikand 350 the next day
00:06.41dtidrow_workis that the Audi that ran at Le Mans?
00:06.44``Erikheh, no, custom job, completely computer controlled
00:06.44dtidrow_workgot a link for it?
00:06.45``Erikslashdot.org
00:06.45dtidrow_workah
00:06.45``Erikand the stock m3 romped a stock v8 audi r4 on a straight run, so nyah
00:12.56``Erikv8 and 4wd wasn't nuff :D
00:13.06dtidrow_workhttp://www.audi.com/audi/com/en1/experience/motorsport/Audi_R10_TDI.html - here's the one I was thinking of
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00:13.14``Erikhehehe
00:13.14``Eriknot a street car
00:45.08CIA-9BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/ (include/raytrace.h src/librt/db_comb.c src/librt/tcl.c): (log message trimmed)
00:45.09CIA-9BRL-CAD: Consistently use integers instead of shorts for the region id, air code, GIFT
00:45.09CIA-9BRL-CAD: material code, and los value for the rt_comb_internal structure. region ids are
00:45.11CIA-9BRL-CAD: already handled almost entirely as integers throughout the code, but the usage
00:45.12CIA-9BRL-CAD: of shorts in the comb structure seems to be a carry-over from prior v4 format
00:45.16CIA-9BRL-CAD: support that was never changed. a review of code seems to indicate that the
00:45.16CIA-9BRL-CAD: only negative impact should only be rather unsupported behavior if someone
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01:34.03kostyPing...
01:42.49CIA-9BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/ (NEWS src/mged/ged.c): ctrl-d on an empty shell line now quits mged like one might expect for an interactive console shell. this addresses sf bug report 1543495.
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02:17.24brlcadkosty: pong
02:36.01CIA-9BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/mged/ged.c: prevent dereference crash if there is an uninitialized display
02:37.20CIA-9BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/mged/attach.c: simple infinite loop protection on the attach prompt (it can go into an inf loop on unexpected input (e.g. ctrl-d)). also protect against dereference crashes when there is no display.
03:02.16CIA-9BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/ (NEWS src/mged/attach.c): prevent infinite loop on classic mged attach prompt. check whether fgets is stuck on EOF so we can cancel the prompt.
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17:02.03CIA-9BRL-CAD: 03jlowenz * 10brlcad/include/pkg.h: added function prototypes, C linkage wrapper
17:05.51CIA-9BRL-CAD: 03jlowenz * 10brlcad/src/libpkg/pkg.c: added return from pkg_permserver_ip (oops); made strings const for pkg_open - since they should be...
17:50.13CIA-9BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/libdm/ (dm-X.c dm-glx.c dm-ogl.c dm-pex.c dm-tk.c dm-wgl.c):
17:50.13CIA-9BRL-CAD: according to one of the tcl devs (thx jenglish), Tk_IsMapped() is not what we
17:50.13CIA-9BRL-CAD: should be using to determine if the tkwin is 'valid' .. being 'mapped'
17:50.13CIA-9BRL-CAD: apparently means that there is a window that has been explicitly mapped via a
17:50.14CIA-9BRL-CAD: Tk_MapWindow() call or is otherwise fully drawn/displayed. fall back to a
17:50.16CIA-9BRL-CAD: simple non-null check instead.
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20:52.05CIA-9BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/libfb/if_remote.c: quell prototype warnings by making the errlog callback function match the signature via a simple passthrough to a rem_log().
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Jeff Waugh - find it at freshmeat.net! Modified by Tim Riker to work with blootbot logs, split per channel, etc. irclog2html for #brlcad on 20060825

irclog2html for #brlcad on 20060825

01:14.33CIA-9BRL-CAD: 03johnranderson * 10brlcad/src/tclscripts/mged/help.tcl:
01:14.34CIA-9BRL-CAD: Somewhere along the line "smooth_bot" command got changed to
01:14.34CIA-9BRL-CAD: "bot_smooth", but the help never got changed. The help now agrees with
01:14.34CIA-9BRL-CAD: the command.
03:08.36IriX64is jove still supported? I notice it's gone from the summary printout.
03:10.41IriX64err never mind :)
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18:44.37CIA-9BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/sh/tracker.sh: decode the title before printing it to console too
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20:03.18IriX64ValarQ: it took a long time to put those snapshots together for you, do you like them? ;)
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22:11.59CIA-9BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/doc/description.txt: add a history section, credit mike of course. cover a little more detail on the languages in use. line count is over a million now.
22:13.11CIA-9BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/README: line counts are more than a million now
22:22.26CIA-9BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/doc/pad_file.xml.in: more than a million lines, squeeze in to 2000 chars
22:26.36IriX64anybody, what version of postscript are we dealing with here?
22:27.38IriX64and if i redirect to a file can adobe acrobat be used?
22:31.50brlcadshould work
22:32.01IriX64thank you.
22:39.10IriX64ValarQ: I know, Iknow, send code eh. :)
22:42.42IriX64png.c: In function 'CommonReadPNG':
22:42.45IriX64png.c:373: warning: the address of 'png_get_sRGB', will always evaluate as 'true
22:42.59IriX64for what its worth brlcad.
22:44.33brlcadi don't maintain libpng's code ;)
22:44.47IriX64understood ;)
22:44.53brlcadwe need to update our sources to their recent patch update, it might address that
22:45.09IriX64agreed.
22:46.50brlcadfeel free to download and compile and see ;)
22:46.59IriX64hahah you too.
22:47.31IriX64-4
22:52.01IriX64add !=NULL you'll be allright. :)
22:52.56brlcadIriX64 = NULL;
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22:53.25IriX64whup wrong key sequence :)
22:59.49``Erikthat's not libpng, is it... that's tkimg...
23:01.05IriX64png.c forget which one now not othew, the first one you encounter.
23:01.15IriX64other too.
23:01.22IriX64already fixed here.
23:02.18brlcadahh
23:02.30brlcadstill not ours to care about if it don't halt the build..
23:02.42brlcadunless someone wants to provide 'em patches
23:04.02IriX64maybe ill do that.
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Jeff Waugh - find it at freshmeat.net! Modified by Tim Riker to work with blootbot logs, split per channel, etc. irclog2html for #brlcad on 20060826

irclog2html for #brlcad on 20060826

00:38.14brlcad``Erik: http://developer.apple.com/technotes/tn2006/tn2161.html
00:58.44``Erikheh, tell mal, not me :)
01:07.35brlcadahh, interesting.. apparently this was a recently _dropped_ feature, 4.0.1 gcc on mac disabled it
01:07.57brlcadwhich means we could have simply selected a different gcc version (several are installed) and moved on
01:08.05brlcadhttp://lists.apple.com/archives/Xcode-users/2005/Nov/msg00274.html
01:10.46``Erikthat was old ocde that's being thrown away
01:10.54``Erikthe new code compiled fine on my g4 lappie
01:20.24IriX64patch? for a simple !=NULL?  ;)
01:20.50IriX64the user should do *some work :)
01:23.02IriX64maybe I should use bu_free() on it ;)
01:24.13IriX64a friend of mine named sean tells me that code can't possibly work :)
01:25.06IriX64sigh starting over is hard to do but lets see where cygwin is today.
01:40.22IriX64gotta reboot. cya
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02:11.53MaloeranThanks brlcad, Erik forwarded the url :)
02:42.00brlcadnp :)
02:44.56Maloeranbrlcad, any interest in a bicycle ride tomorrow? I guess you might have replied to Lee's message already
02:45.15brlcadyeah, I just saw it
02:45.32brlcadi normally would, but I have crew practice most all saturday morning
02:46.34MaloeranAh, unfortunate. All right then
02:46.42brlcad5am until about 10am, and then I'm usually beat..
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08:47.52UltraMagnushi
08:48.38UltraMagnushow do i install brl-cad when it is not in my distro's repositoriese? please, i am kinda new to linux.....
08:49.07clock_UltraMagnus: download and compile from the sources
08:49.34UltraMagnusclock_: ok, uh, how do i do that?
08:49.49clock_UltraMagnus: download the .tgz file, unpack and go according to the README
08:49.50clock_inside
08:50.13UltraMagnusok, thanks
08:52.34UltraMagnusuhh, i went to "brl-cad" for linux on the brlcad website, and there are 6 differnt files, how do i know what one i need?
08:53.44clock_UltraMagnus: you need the sources
09:07.40brlcadUltraMagnus: there's basically only three choices -- ia32, ia64, and amd64 (x86_64)
09:08.08brlcaddepending on your distribution of linux and your hardware, ia32 may indeed work for you
09:08.20UltraMagnusyeah, i realised that..... i guessed i needed ia32, thanks
09:08.46brlcadotherwise you will need to go to the BRL-CAD Source section and compile the package for your system like clock suggested
09:09.13UltraMagnusoh, so this isnt the sources?
09:10.01UltraMagnusso, what is this i just downloaded then? the....... uh, binary?
09:10.15UltraMagnuswhat do i need to do with this then?
09:11.01brlcadwell, it's a binary for linux that you're downloading
09:11.13brlcadyou'll want to follow the instructions in the INSTALL file
09:11.38brlcadwhich basically amount to copying the usr/brlcad directory in there to /usr/.
09:12.35brlcadi got to run out for a bit.. back in a while if you still need help .. most everything is in the INSTALL file, various sections
09:12.43UltraMagnuswhere is the install file?
09:13.39brlcadit's in both the source and binary downloads
09:13.49brlcador go to it directly here:  http://brlcad.cvs.sourceforge.net/*checkout*/brlcad/brlcad/INSTALL
09:14.12brlcadgood luck, gotta run..
09:15.09UltraMagnusthanks
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12:33.16``Erikrow row row a boat
12:45.16IriX64urf, only 120gigs left better clean house :)
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17:37.41UltraMagnushmm, ok, i have extracted the linux binary, how do i get it to..... uh..... work?
17:42.48``Erikthere should be a brlcad/bin dir with lots of programs, the one you probably want to try running is "mged"
17:45.00brlcad*after* you move that brlcad dir into /usr/.
17:46.29UltraMagnusok, but how do i add it to my menu? usually i will just use alacarte to add it via the console command, but it currently doesnt have a console command...
17:47.11``ErikROW ROW ROW A BOUT
17:47.13``Erikboat, even
17:47.14``Erikhehehe
17:47.15``Erik:D
17:48.02``ErikUltraMagnus: there's four hundred and something binaries to brlcad, it's a big honkin' suite, not "program" :)
17:49.01UltraMagnus``Erik: uh, isnt there some sort of unifying program? or something.....
17:50.23brlcadin short - no, though most people jump in and use "mged" for starters as it is a gui application
17:50.37brlcadand has the most extensive documentation, and is a solid modeler, etc
17:51.01brlcadprobably the closest to "unifying" that there is for now
17:51.15brlcadstill.. before you go adding shortcuts and all, you really should make sure it works
17:52.16brlcadIf you installed everything correctly, you should be able to run this and have some windows pop up:
17:52.19brlcad/usr/brlcad/bin/mged
17:52.43brlcadif that works, you can add that as a menu item or shortcut or whatever your heart desires
17:54.47CIA-9BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/INSTALL:
17:54.47CIA-9BRL-CAD: more detailed testing section, with details on testing functionality before and
17:54.47CIA-9BRL-CAD: after installation. also, make the quick instructions be an optimized build.
17:54.47CIA-9BRL-CAD: give examples on how to provide custom flags during configure and make too.
17:54.53brlcadif that doesn't work typed *exactly* like that, then you've missed some installation step
18:04.03UltraMagnusok, thanks
18:04.22UltraMagnusthanks everyone for your help! and thanks for putting up with my absolute ignorance!
18:04.30UltraMagnusbye all
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18:14.50IriX64`Erik... get that boat ashore yet?
18:14.59IriX64:)
18:15.17``Erik<-- not the one who was boating
18:15.47IriX64show.... me that in the backscroll ;)
18:17.35IriX64my knucles are bleeding slightly from latest cygwin attempt. :)
18:17.41IriX64knuckles too.
18:18.47IriX64why cygwin tho when i have redhat 6.0 (Hedwig) running on Twingys vm.
18:19.49IriX64I'm necient about some things, how do you start the network in RedHat?
18:20.40dtidrowI seem to have had better luck building stuff with mingw than cygwin
18:20.54IriX64never tried mingw.
18:21.17dtidrowstarting the network in RedHat: ifup eth0
18:21.25IriX64ty
18:21.44dtidrowdo you have it set for dhcp?
18:23.56IriX64all the defaults for workstation whatever they are.
18:24.18IriX64comes back ifup <device name>
18:45.46brlcadif only because of the fewer dependencies and licensing details
18:45.57brlcadmsys is a nice subset at that too
19:02.17MaloeranYou can always pass -mno-cygwin to cygwin, mingw is lacking many packages by default
19:06.37``Erik<-- does the -mno-cygwin trick when he has to touch that os cuz he likes automake too much...
19:19.05brlcadi like the fact that it's "missing" a lot by default -- I usually want it for minimal build environment, not interactive use
19:22.09``Erikheh, I just want to take my code developed on bsd or linux, run "configure&&make" and have the .exe to give to winiots...
19:22.20``Eriknot exactly interactive use
19:23.22MaloeranQuite, you at least need Make... unless you want to write out a .bat file or something :)
19:24.34brlcadmingw includes the default build stuff, even msys includes make
19:24.45``Erik"configure" requires at least a posix shell, though *shrug*
19:24.55``Erikand nmake is grotesquely differen than unix breed makes
19:25.09``Eriklast I looked, anyways
19:26.52brlcadare we talking about the same thing?  last time I checked, mingw/msys provides the shell, make, binutils, autotools, etc
19:28.23brlcadMaloeran: how was the ride?
19:28.47``Erikbut it's been five years, y'know?
19:30.03MaloeranQuite nice, brlcad, the area we went to was surprisingly quiet. As well, Lee isn't in bad shape
19:30.09brlcadmsys is supposed to be the bare "mininmal system" subset of mingw that gets a configure script to work (including the implicitly required tools, make, gcc, ld, cat, grep, etc, etc)
19:30.28brlcadMaloeran: really? hmm.. i was just about to ask
19:30.43brlcadif there was any trouble keeping up
19:30.45``Erikrode around abingdon?
19:30.54brlcad(not you, him)
19:31.21MaloeranHe's riding a recumbant so he got some aerodyamic advantage, but it wasn't a problem
19:31.23``Erikhe cheats with that recumbant, though, less air resistance, less full body exercise...
19:32.18brlcadwhen I've ridden, the aerodynamic advantage hasn't been enough ..
19:32.23MaloeranEheh :), I of course didn't go as fast as I could, but we kept a reasonable pace
19:32.41brlcadi generally have to hold *waaay* back
19:32.49clock_wayback machine
19:33.08brlcadnot that he can't keep a good pace, just not what I usually go at
19:33.14``Erikya shoulda gave it some juice to leave him behind, mal :D I bet that trek would hold itself together for that ;)
19:34.45MaloeranMmhm :). The pace was reasonable really, I expected worse
19:35.08MaloeranI have friends who certainly ride slower than Lee
19:37.10``Erikthough I'd probably exhaust myself just getting onto it :)
19:37.49brlcadheh
19:37.54MaloeranYou should go for a ride with Lee every Saturday morning, that will give you an excellent reason to get in good shape :)
19:38.25``ErikI can think of better things to do saturday morning
19:39.26brlcadshould at least get sam to pay you to go to the gym a couple times a week for a few months
19:39.30MaloeranBeing in good shape generally gives you more energy to be more productive in most activities, as well as increasing the life expectancy
19:39.37MaloeranSo it's generally a good.. investment
19:39.38``Eriksam?
19:39.39brlcador was it just a month?  either way..
19:39.42brlcaduncle sam
19:39.45``Erikoh
19:39.56``Erikyeah, one of these days, I'll go to the gym
19:40.06``ErikI got the one here my hoa pays for, I got to that once every few months
19:40.21brlcadmight as well *pay* you to go :)
19:40.27``Erikbut all I do is see what my limits are
19:40.31MaloeranI don't understand that. People travels in their car, but spend hours at the gym. Anyone sees how to combine the two? :)
19:40.53brlcadMaloeran: yeah, live in a city :)
19:40.58``Erikalexis: when bicycling to work is a possiblity, people around here do it... for many, it's not
19:42.03MaloeranYes, this area could use some investment for small tracks dedicated to bicycles going between cities...
19:42.11Maloeranor between towns, rather
19:42.19``Erikcars hitting deer or dogs or cats is a relatively common occurance out here, bicycles aren't TOO terribly different on those roads
19:43.01``Erikand I'm sure you can appreciate the consequences of a car vs bicycle collision ;) *duck*
19:43.02brlcadi ride quite a bit and have nearly been hit several times just in the past couple years
19:43.15``Eriklike on 40?
19:43.36brlcad40's actually pretty nice
19:43.45MaloeranI have never been "hit" by a car really. I mostly tend to ram into car doors opening right in front of me
19:43.47``Erikyeah, straight with nice big shoulders
19:43.54brlcadonly have to worry about idiots that try to cause a scare by throwing or yelling something
19:43.56``Erikhit by, hit a, whatever
19:44.03``Erikand gravel
19:44.36MaloeranI sure am beginning to miss Montreal's bicycle lanes and roads dedicated to pedestrians and bicycles
19:44.43brlcadi've had a big truck pass me only to make almost an immediate right turn right in front of me (going 25mph mind you)
19:45.21MaloeranOw. With good brakes, it should still be fine
19:45.22brlcadthat was pretty bad.. I barely skidded to a halt within a foot or so of the truck
19:45.31``Erikthere are a couple bike lanes out here, but not enough to make the bicycle a good regular commuter vehicle... and if there's snow, those lanes don't get plowed
19:46.28``Erik<-- wouldn't rely on a motorcycle out here, either... need something with 4 wheels and a roll cage, protection from the elements is nice, too :/
19:46.58MaloeranWith the kind of temperature you have here, I sure wish my bicycle had air conditionning
19:47.23``Erik35c and brutal humidity isn't comfortable for ya? ;)
19:47.30brlcadi like the thrill, flying down a hill at 50mph on my bike is quite a rush...
19:47.56MaloeranNo Erik, definitely not :)
19:47.57``Erikummm, what did it get up to a couple weeks ago, 46c?
19:48.02``Erik(115f, right?)
19:48.02brlcadcourse so are most life-threatening situations
19:48.30brlcadit's not been horribly hot lately
19:48.38``Erikyeah, the last couple weeks
19:48.39brlcadcouple weeks ago was pretty bad
19:48.41``Erikbut we had a front that was rough
19:48.44Maloeran50mph on a bicycle? I don't think my gears go far enough for that, it's a hybrid
19:49.37MaloeranUnless you meant 50km/h? You sure get some awful air resistance at 50mph
19:49.39brlcadMaloeran: going down a very large hill that has a good 10-20% grade, for almost a mile
19:49.48MaloeranEheh, I see
19:49.50brlcadnope, mph
19:50.23brlcadquite exhilirating.. the slightest rock or puncture and I would have been launched
19:50.48MaloeranA day or two after some storm or cyclon hit the american east coast, I remember having much fun riding a bicycle in winds of 70km/h
19:51.56brlcadin the fall here, the winds pick up pretty heavy -- only 30-40mph or so, but it's enough to knock you off the bike in a gust if you're not careful
19:52.26Maloeran*nods* That's some powerful wind, yes
19:52.30``Erikheh, I've watched cars almost blown out of control, too
19:53.32``Eriksuv's seem the worst, large side area, drivers who feel too 'safe' and complacent... ;)
19:53.51brlcadyeah
19:54.10``Erik(though the minivan that did a few spins behind me in snow was amusing... one fo those blue taxi things)
20:03.46MaloeranErik, did Lee put the code to read BRL-CAD files in the raytracer cvs or elsewhere?
20:04.03MaloeranOr maybe it just isn't completed yet
20:14.05``Erikheh, I d'no
20:15.33``ErikI scrolled back through some history and see no commits from lee in the last few days
20:22.49MaloeranRight, I'm supposed to be reading BRL-CAD geometry by September 1st so I'm wondering
20:25.50``Erikit's a milestone, not a deadline...
20:26.21``Erikand if worst comes to worst, you can copy g-stl.c or g-obj.c and alter it to your liking
20:40.42IriX64bikes? get with with a motor :)
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21:24.03``Erikhttp://www.bash.org/?670444
Jeff Waugh - find it at freshmeat.net! Modified by Tim Riker to work with blootbot logs, split per channel, etc. irclog2html for #brlcad on 20060827

irclog2html for #brlcad on 20060827

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12:27.23SarmatianHello.
12:28.55Sarmatian???
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21:17.27IriX64whey :)
21:18.01IriX64my cygwin runs brlcad :)
21:18.05IriX64finally.
21:18.29IriX64builds and runs that is.
21:18.58brlcadyou were having trouble building under cygwin?
21:21.22IriX64yes
21:21.53IriX64fixed now :)
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21:23.43IriX64and now irssi runs too.
21:25.05IriX64mged is beautiful, but you should rename it brlcad.exe ;)
21:25.57brlcadno way
21:26.01IriX64that geometry browser has tops and e beat all to hell.
21:26.03brlcadit's far from "brlcad.exe"
21:26.14IriX64hehe allright.
21:26.43IriX64should have one master file renamed that though:)
21:27.02IriX64perhaps rt.exe?
21:27.05IriX64:)
21:28.36IriX64how do i make a unified diff and send it to the appropriate people?
21:29.28IriX64never tried a unified diff before.
21:29.59IriX64is ValarQ around?
21:30.20IriX64wanted to apologize for the clutter of the in box. :)
21:57.53IriX64smoke break, bbiab
22:00.14brlcadIriX64: diff -u
22:00.29brlcadthe HACKING file has more detail
22:59.14IriX64brlcad: thank you very much.
Jeff Waugh - find it at freshmeat.net! Modified by Tim Riker to work with blootbot logs, split per channel, etc. irclog2html for #brlcad on 20060828

irclog2html for #brlcad on 20060828

00:09.55*** join/#brlcad ibot (i=ibot@rikers.org)
00:09.55*** topic/#brlcad is http://brlcad.org/ || BRL-CAD is an open source solid modeling software suite || Developers needed! Read the HACKING file for details on getting involved
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00:47.42IriX64ValarQ: want to compare desktops? I've tided mine up ;)
00:47.52IriX64tidied too.
00:52.02CIA-9BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/include/pkg.h: add PKG_EXTERN and PKG_ARGS wrappers like the other libs, consistently make all the buffers char *
00:53.21CIA-9BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/libpkg/pkg.c: consistently use char * buffers (instead of unsigned) and be more specific on the errlog callbacks
00:54.40CIA-9BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/remrt/remrt.c: quell warnings on the errlog callback by defining a remrt_log() that passes through to bu_log().
00:55.57CIA-9BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/ (4 files in 3 dirs): quell libpkg warnings now that there are more comprehensive declarations.
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01:44.55IriX64amazing what ctrl-c will do :)
01:46.07IriX64.c
01:46.08IriX64bltCanvEps.c:1690: warning: initialization from incompatible pointer type
01:46.08IriX64bltCanvEps.c:1692: warning: initialization from incompatible pointer type
01:46.08IriX64bltCanvEps.c:1693: warning: initialization from incompatible pointer type
01:46.08IriX64bltCanvEps.c: In function `Blt_InitEpsCanvasItem':
01:46.11IriX64bltCanvEps.c:1717: warning: assignment from incompatible pointer type
01:46.23IriX64thought you fixed that :)
01:51.54brlcadlike I said on friday, generally don't go about changing code in src/other unless it halts the build
01:52.26brlcadthat's not our code to maintain, no sense wasting our time
01:52.39IriX64ahh, doesn't halt the build but may cause erratic runtime operation.
01:53.14IriX64just out of curiousity which part of the code tree is yours?
01:53.46brlcadthe point still stands, that's external code that we ship *only* for convenience (with a few minor exceptions like jove)
01:54.00IriX64. taken.
01:54.46brlcadthe alternative is to have people go download and install or download, compile, and install those packages on their own like many packages require
01:55.02IriX64now i see thanks.
01:55.18brlcadand you wouldn't think to fix issues in dependencies
01:55.34IriX64I might :)
01:55.38brlcadi mean, if you do.. might as well make a patch and provide it to those package's maintainers
01:55.53brlcadotherwise it's just idle effort
01:56.04IriX64means getting involved with cvs. though.
01:56.06brlcadthat has pretty much nothing to do with brl-cad
01:56.15brlcadnot necessarily
01:56.23brlcadyou don't have to have cvs to make a patch
01:56.39IriX64how do i get it to them?
01:56.47brlcadheh
01:57.22brlcadit depends on the project, everyone has their own process .. you'd have to contact whomever's code you're messing with
01:57.49brlcadour process for our code is pretty straightforward and documented
01:58.33IriX64code isn't considered reading though :)
02:02.08brlcadyou're only touching the tip of the iceberg regarding warnings
02:02.18brlcadadd --enable-warnings to configure
02:02.41IriX64isn't that verbose-warnings?
02:03.17brlcadsynonym option
02:03.29IriX64understood.
02:50.28CIA-9BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/BUGS:
02:50.28CIA-9BRL-CAD: the debugbu 2 bug occurs because bu_memdebug_add() is not called unless memory
02:50.29CIA-9BRL-CAD: checking is enabled via bu_debug. so when bu_debug is set to 2 or 3, it ends up
02:50.29CIA-9BRL-CAD: reporting errors during bu_free() for items that were allocated and were not yet
02:50.29CIA-9BRL-CAD: being tracked.
03:08.06CIA-9BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/libbu/malloc.c: even if we're in debug mode, don't abort the requested task (i.e. free'ing memory) else invoke the wrath of corrupted leaky memory
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05:52.51sebastienbailardI was wondering, is anyone working on QCAD integration inside BRL-CAD?
05:54.16sebastienbailard(Is anyone on tonight?)
06:08.12sebastienbailardI'll try again another time.
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12:51.58CIA-9BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/ (libbu/printb.c mged/cmd.c): ws
13:50.15``Eriksean, ya handy?
13:53.42brlcadtwo of them even
13:53.55brlcadblaming shite one me, I hear
13:54.11brlcadbuild for that lib hasn't changed since 2004 (i.e. ever)
13:54.24clock_brlcad: what about making "sucess stories" section for brlcad and putting Ronja there?
13:54.36brlcadclock_: already have you in
13:54.56brlcadyou just can't see the new site yet ;)
13:54.57clock_brlcad: hehe where?
13:55.02clock_brlcad: lol :)
13:55.10brlcadit's sitting in a prototype dir
13:55.19brlcadwhile the new site is worked on and tested out
14:01.18``Erik:D
14:01.36clock_brlcad: do you have other app stories than ronja?
14:01.37``ErikI think we figured out that it never behaved as they expected
14:02.47``Erikthey want weird behavior, I was wondering if you had a slick angle for it... they want librt, libbu, libbn and libtcl statically linked in, but the others (libm, libc) dynamic... I came up with $(topbuild_dir)/src/lib/librt/.libs/librt.a or including alllllll the .o files in one link
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14:17.26brlcad``Erik: yuck yuck
14:17.34brlcadand non-portable
14:17.58brlcadthat'll fail on the server builds (aix for sure, possibly altix)
14:18.25brlcadi think it just has to use convenience libs so that it's all bundled
14:19.25brlcadwhich isn't so bad I suppose, I've been meaning to make a "geometry engine" mega library akin to daniel's brlcad.dll for windows anyways, and they'd be needed for that too
14:37.36brlcadhehe, it's a 10MB static lib, 8MB jnilib now :)
14:38.08brlcad(at least on os x)
14:40.53``Erikthat's what they want *shrug* don't make sense to me, but... little they do does ;) *duck*
14:42.22CIA-9BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/ (libbu/Makefile.am libbn/Makefile.am librt/Makefile.am): create convenience libraries for libbu, libbn, and librt so that they may be used in other libraries to fully resolve symbols (by virtue of full inclusion).
14:44.00CIA-9BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/librtserver/Makefile.am: use the new convenience libraries for libbu, libbn, librt instead of using the usual lib_LTLIBRARY so that we don't end up creating a jnilib that has rpath run-time requirements looking up librt, libbn, and libbu.
14:45.17``Erikhe's in rons office
14:45.27brlcadheh
14:46.09``Erik<-- coulda walked around the corner and told him it was done... :)
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18:33.38CIA-9BRL-CAD: 03johnranderson * 10brlcad/src/libbu/hash.c: Added bu_get_hash_key()
18:34.25CIA-9BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/misc/win32-msvc/brlcad.dsw: on second thought, remove libtclcad.. it really doesn't 'fit' well with the rest without including all of brl-cad's libs
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18:49.43CIA-9BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/ (other/libtcl/Makefile.am librtserver/Makefile.am): make/use noinst convenience library for libtcl just like was done for bu, bn, rt so that librtserver can have no dependencies other than guaranteed system ones
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18:52.08CIA-9BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/include/bu.h: added new bu_get_hash_key() decl
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19:25.35CIA-9BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/librtserver/Makefile.am: there may not exist a libtcl_nil.la if building tcl was disabled to act accordingly
19:29.20CIA-9BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/libwdb/Makefile.am: make a convenience library for libwdb so that it may be bundled into other libraries
19:36.56CIA-9BRL-CAD: 03johnranderson * 10brlcad/src/librtserver/rtserver.c: Changed the JNI wrapper names to agree with the new class names in the MUVES3 brlcadservice
19:59.43brlcad``Erik: any reason why all the libs are set to version 19?
20:44.32``Erikuhmmmmmmm, because when I changed it from cake, they were all 19, and I was told to retain library version numbers, and that all libraries would have the same version...
20:45.00``Erikthe reason is across the hall from you :)
20:46.40clock_"because when I [...] they were all 19, and I was told to [...] library [...] number, and that all [...] would have the same [...]"
20:46.59clock_After a bit of cutting sonds like an interesting student's story with girls
20:47.11``Eriklike, totally
20:56.16``Erikfrom the looks of it, it's based on the RCS tag in /gen.sh, snarfed through sh/sharedlibvers.sh  
20:57.04``Erikgets into cakefile.defs into LIBVERS
20:59.21brlcadahh, that beastie
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21:51.09*** topic/#brlcad is http://brlcad.org/ || BRL-CAD is an open source solid modeling software suite || Developers needed! Read the HACKING file for details on getting involved
22:32.48IriX64good dog. :)
22:38.57IriX64Is there any way to get Murphys Law repealed? perhaps if we launch a mass appeal? :)
22:40.48CIA-9BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/Makefile.am:
22:40.48CIA-9BRL-CAD: initial functional stubbings for a 'brlcad' library. use the newly added
22:40.48CIA-9BRL-CAD: libbu/libbn/librt/libwdb convenience libraries, mimicking what is already done
22:40.48CIA-9BRL-CAD: for the windows dll. don't enable the actual installable object yet until the
22:40.48CIA-9BRL-CAD: next minor release.
22:50.41*** join/#brlcad IriX64_ (n=Who@toronto-HSE-ppp4303915.sympatico.ca)
22:56.14IriX64get with it :)
Jeff Waugh - find it at freshmeat.net! Modified by Tim Riker to work with blootbot logs, split per channel, etc. irclog2html for #brlcad on 20060829

irclog2html for #brlcad on 20060829

00:41.58*** join/#brlcad dli (n=dli@adsl-75-33-240-234.dsl.chcgil.sbcglobal.net)
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01:27.07sebastienbailardHello, anyone here today?
01:28.31*** join/#brlcad IriX64 (n=IriX64@toronto-HSE-ppp4304415.sympatico.ca)
01:28.39sebastienbailardHey.
01:28.48IriX64hey
01:28.52IriX64sups?
01:29.00sebastienbailardDon't know.  Just came on.
01:29.11sebastienbailardI think everyone is busy.
01:29.23IriX64usually you ask for help here.:)
01:29.29IriX64and they reply given time.
01:29.30sebastienbailardAh.  I like to ask to ask, before I ask.
01:29.46sebastienbailardI've got a question about brlcad's UI.
01:30.06IriX64i only type with two fingers, sorry im so slow.
01:30.11sebastienbailardAre people planning on integrating qcad for 2D input?
01:30.18IriX64ask someone may answer.
01:30.26IriX64whats qcad?
01:30.41sebastienbailardIt's a really good linux 2d cad program.
01:31.04sebastienbailardhttp://www.nabble.com/-brlcad---Developers--QCAD-integration-inside-BRL-CAD--t2001250.html
01:31.05IriX64brlcad is misnamed it should be brlmodelling.
01:31.26sebastienbailardPeople use it to design machinery, right?
01:31.47IriX64model things, weapons systems and anything else.
01:32.06sebastienbailardSo it's a modeler, it's not for design?
01:32.12sebastienbailardHuh.
01:32.21IriX64design *to model.
01:32.29sebastienbailardAh.
01:32.48sebastienbailardIt's just there aren't any decent gpl 3D CAD programs.
01:33.04IriX64gpl?
01:33.20sebastienbailardGNU public license.  Like linux, or emacs.
01:33.38IriX64so you want the cadillac for free?
01:33.51sebastienbailardPretty much, yes.
01:34.28IriX64well you have it in BrlCad :P
01:34.32sebastienbailardThe way it is right now, people at the mit-type fab labs use blender to design the stuff they fabricate.
01:34.58sebastienbailardRight, but BrlCad's user interface is a little intimidating.
01:35.06IriX64how?
01:35.30sebastienbailardLet's put it this way.  I asked three experienced people what they thought of brl cad
01:35.39sebastienbailardshould I learn to use it, and so on.
01:35.46IriX64and?
01:35.49sebastienbailardGot three 'no's.
01:36.03IriX64so why are you here?
01:36.16sebastienbailardI was coming to ask about the qcad stuff.
01:36.39IriX64ill let someone who knows what qcad is answer that.
01:37.05sebastienbailardI figured if people had a good way to do 2D input using brl cad, they'd be more motivated to learn the 3d stuff.
01:37.34IriX64why work in 2d when you can work in 3d.?
01:37.52sebastienbailard1) Sometimes all people need is 2d.
01:38.03IriX64Those experienced people couldn't have been experienced in brlcad.
01:38.08sebastienbailard2) People can figure out 2d easier than 3d.
01:38.34sebastienbailardAh yes.  My point there was - they had all looked at brlcad, and were scared off.
01:38.54IriX64if the tool doesn't suit you buy another tool why should brlcad regress?
01:39.24sebastienbailardI don't mean to be rude.  My point is that brlcad might need a bit of candy-coating.
01:39.46sebastienbailardAssuming you guys want more people to use brlcad.
01:39.47IriX64for those too lazy to take the tutorials?
01:40.38sebastienbailardAh.  I didn't mean to offend.
01:41.58sebastienbailardIs anyone else there?
01:44.40sebastienbailardIs anyone using brlcad to generate g-code then?
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07:44.18*** join/#brlcad SWAT (n=SWAT@a80-100-68-159.adsl.xs4all.nl)
07:45.18SWATHow do I start brlcad, do I need to compile it and where is the README file?
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11:34.36brlcadSWAT: brl-cad is a suite of many many tools .. what you "start" depends on what you want to do
11:35.03brlcadmost start with the solid modeler mged, which has a gui and associated documentation
11:36.23brlcadSWAT: the readme is in both the source and binary distributions, in the binary distribution, it's embedded in the documentation directory in usr/brlcad/share/brlcad/7.8.2/README
11:37.42brlcadin the source distribution, the README is right there in the top level directory
11:37.49brlcadyou can view it on-line here: http://brlcad.cvs.sourceforge.net/*checkout*/brlcad/brlcad/README
11:44.54SWATthanks
13:07.55``Erikin addition to the package inclusion...
13:26.07SWATwell, it 'normal' to put the README in the top dir
13:26.18SWATjust like the INSTALL (if applicable)
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13:42.29CIA-9BRL-CAD: 03d_rossberg * 10brlcad/misc/win32-msvc/Dll/TclDummies.c: Tcl_SetErrno dummy function
13:44.11CIA-9BRL-CAD: 03d_rossberg * 10brlcad/src/libbu/libbu.dsp: added bu_fgets.c
13:46.06CIA-9BRL-CAD: 03d_rossberg * 10brlcad/src/librt/librt.dsp: added transform.c
13:47.58brlcadhello rossberg, how goes things?
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13:58.56rossbergbrlcad: good, today is my first working day after vacation
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14:28.02brlcadrossberg: ahh, nice
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16:56.40``Erik2/det
17:14.16CIA-9BRL-CAD: 03erikgreenwald * 10brlcad/ (include/rtgeom.h src/librt/g_metaball.c): Added "method" to metaball struct. Changed some language.
17:30.19CIA-9BRL-CAD: 03erikgreenwald * 10brlcad/src/librt/g_metaball.c: fix a crash in the exporter...
17:33.01CIA-9BRL-CAD: 03erikgreenwald * 10brlcad/src/mged/ (chgmodel.c typein.c): Added "method" to metaball struct. Changed some language.
17:47.49CIA-9BRL-CAD: 03erikgreenwald * 10brlcad/src/mged/ (edsol.c sedit.h): Added "method" to metaball struct. Begin stubbing out ECMD stuff. Changed some language.
18:02.50brlcad"method"?
18:03.02``Erikyeah
18:03.27``Erikselectable formulas for evaluating field strength at a given point
18:03.42brlcadahh
18:03.54brlcadyou coulda just said that :)
18:04.24brlcadi'm thinking.. method for evaluation? method for rendering? c++ methods? method for deleting? method for creating? ?? :)
18:04.51``Erikuh, ok, sed -i.bak 's/method/selectableformulaforevaluatingfieldstrengthatagivenpoint/g' `find . -type f` && cvs commit -m 'rephrasing'
18:04.53``Erik:D
18:04.58brlcadheh
18:05.47``Erik<-- ass
18:06.02``Erikmy run-on sentences rock
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18:11.43*** topic/#brlcad is http://brlcad.org/ || BRL-CAD is an open source solid modeling software suite || Developers needed! Read the HACKING file for details on getting involved
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20:07.06CIA-9BRL-CAD: 03bob1961 * 10brlcad/src/libpkg/pkg.c: It looks like the intent was to struct copy a "struct in_addr" in the _pkg_permserver_impl function.
20:09.23CIA-9BRL-CAD: 03bob1961 * 10brlcad/src/tclscripts/archer/Archer.tcl: Added method to purge edit history. More mods to accomodate ogl being replaced by wgl.
20:13.22CIA-9BRL-CAD: 03bob1961 * 10brlcad/src/mged/ (cmd.c ged.c): Mods to get things to natively compile on Windows.
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20:55.47CIA-9BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/libpkg/pkg.c: minor, consolidate return
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21:27.57CIA-9BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/libpkg/pkg.c:
21:27.57CIA-9BRL-CAD: get rid of the _WIN32 sections for recv/send instead of read/write .. this
21:27.58CIA-9BRL-CAD: really shouldn't be necessary if the compatibility macros in the config_win.h
21:27.58CIA-9BRL-CAD: header are specified correctly, but for now keep it as it is just without all
21:27.58CIA-9BRL-CAD: the repetition by using macros that call the corresponding routine. oh yeah,
21:28.00CIA-9BRL-CAD: and M-x indent-region ws too.
21:33.36CIA-9BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/libpkg/pkg.c: forgot to enclose macro params in parens
21:52.02CIA-9BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/mged/cmd.c: no need to forward declare it if we just move the definition up
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22:28.30brlcaddoes anyone know if there's an equivalent call for sync() on win32?  not finding anything of use in docs/search
22:40.55``Erikgrep headers for -i 'flush'?
22:42.35brlcadstarting to find stuff, found what cygwin does
22:42.52``Erik(does windows even buffer file descriptors? hahaha)
22:43.02brlcador at least a proposal for dealing with it at one point, which basically involves iterating over the fixed drives and callling FlushFileBuffers
22:43.42``Erikcoo'
22:48.18brlcador I could just remove our four bastard usages of sync() and replace em with fsync()
22:51.04brlcadthough a bu_sync() would still be nice to have for bu_bomb() situations
22:54.15``Erikuhhhhh
22:54.27``Erikif sync() 'fails', your os is hosed and crashes...
22:54.28``Erik:)
22:54.47``Erikor locks
22:54.57brlcad"not my problem?" :)
22:55.43``Erikwell, ok
22:55.45``Eriklook at it this way
22:55.50``Erikvoid sync(void);
22:55.57``Erikhow do you figure out if that failed? :)
22:56.22brlcadthe standard doesn't actually require sync() to do anything either
22:56.28``Erik{ ask syncer to do it's thing; block until syncer has done it's thing. }
22:56.37brlcadwhich is why i'm just going to change it all to fsync which does
22:56.45``Erikthat's probably better
22:57.05``Erikon a massively multi-user system, sync() could be a brutal pig of a function call, fsync is targetted
22:58.01``Erik<-- tells the linux kernel on that altix to schedule sync once every 42 days to prove his point :)
22:58.40brlcadit can be a pig, but it should still return within a few seconds at worst
22:58.57brlcadjust as can be calling the sync command
22:59.23brlcadkermit still issues sync after almost every command he types :)
22:59.31``Erikon large fs's with brutal activity, I've watched sync take disturbing amounts of time
22:59.34brlcaddue to old systems not doing it for you
22:59.37``Erik<-- does that a lot, too
22:59.41``Erikoh
22:59.50``Erikand if you have a flakey disk, sync can take a *LONG* time
23:00.01``Eriklike a non-responsive nfs mount or something
23:00.43``Erikheh, or a raid array in the process of crapping itself. :(
23:02.09CIA-9BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/librt/db_open.c: fsync the file before closing it just to be safe
23:07.09CIA-9BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/configure.ac: check for fsync(), bsd func that some older systems don't have
23:16.07CIA-9BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/mged/cmd.c: remove the sync() call. instead just fsync() the currently open geometry database file. doxygenify the comments while we're in here.
23:21.13CIA-9BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/librt/db_open.c: rework db_sync() so that it always flushs and tries fsync() if available and only sync() as last resort.
23:26.40CIA-9BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/librt/db_open.c: sync via db_sync in db_close instead of manually duplicating what is conceptually db_sync's job
23:27.22CIA-9BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/mged/cmd.c: sync via db_sync instead of fsync'ing directly.
23:28.08brlcadi'm just working down the list
23:28.29CIA-9BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/mged/dm_old/dm-mer.c: no protection for you
23:29.43``Erikhm, so you got src/proc-db/pix2g.c and src/util/op-bw.c, cool
23:29.45``Erik:)
23:30.53brlcadyep
23:31.17brlcadhence the alphabetical order of the fixes ;)
23:31.22CIA-9BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/proc-db/pix2g.c: stupid sync().. who wrote this? .. changed to db_sync()
23:33.03brlcadbleh.. op-bw is vax-specific
23:33.23brlcadi somehow doubt anyone has an optronics
23:34.04brlcadhmm
23:34.23brlcadand if they do, the sync() might actually be needed for that one, /me leaves it alone
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23:45.23CIA-9BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/ (TODO src/util/op-bw.c): op-bw had a long run but seeing as it is vax-specific, it is being marked obsolete. the sources are marked for removal at the next minor update (probably by 7.10).
Jeff Waugh - find it at freshmeat.net! Modified by Tim Riker to work with blootbot logs, split per channel, etc. irclog2html for #brlcad on 20060830

irclog2html for #brlcad on 20060830

00:13.21``Erikyour mailbox will be full of complaints next month.
00:13.22``Erik:)
00:14.25brlcadheh
00:42.10CIA-9BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/ (configure.ac src/mged/Makefile.am): check for the solaris lexer library (needed for yyless() apparently) and provide LIBL accordingly for Makefile.am usage.
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01:54.47CIA-9BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/other/jove/ (jove.h jove_main.c jove_term.c): obliterate SYSV/SYS5 usage, instead relying on HAVE_ symbols more consistently (hopefully).
02:20.09brlcadwell that should take care of that lil thorn hopefully
02:46.05dtidrowbrlcad: does lee ever show up on here?
02:47.06brlcaddtidrow: from time to time, but he's not much of an irc geek
02:47.30dtidroware you guys still looking for coders?
02:47.35brlcadhe doesn't know how to live in here, doesn't manage a session or anything
02:47.42brlcadalways
02:47.55dtidrowand you haven't smacked him into shape yet?
02:48.02brlcadheh
02:48.50brlcadhe might have too many pointy grey hairs to manage
02:49.45brlcadspeaking of coders.. i'm just in the middle of writing up an announcement to hire some students to finally work on the website..
02:50.09brlcadhopefully we can take care of that problem soon finally
02:54.59dtidrowheh - how about one fairly experienced one?  ;-)
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03:14.37brlcadhah, excellent
03:15.25dtidrow?
03:16.03brlcadi mean that would be great if you meant what I think you meant ;-)
03:16.17dtidrowah  :-)
03:16.36dtidrowmaybe...  ;-)
03:16.47brlcadi can bring it up tomorrow if you like, see where things are at
03:17.11brlcadthe usual end of year politics are prevalent this month of course
03:17.22dtidrowheh
03:19.03brlcador just give lee a ring, though he'll likely dance a similar style on his end
03:21.20dtidrowwell, I thought he was going to get in touch with me after SIGGRAPH, maybe it slipped his mind or he thought the reverse
03:22.08dtidrowI'll squirt him an email tomorrow - it's lee_at_arl..., right?
03:22.30dtidrowor lbutler?
03:23.47brlcadi'm sure it's slipped his mind entirely
03:24.04brlcadlbutler or just butler
03:24.08dtidrowhe _is_ getting old, after all...  ;-)
03:25.15brlcadso "they"'re still tossing around the corporate crap eh? :)
03:27.01dtidrowwell, some of that, though it hasn't been made clear what that directive meant for 'project' computers
03:57.05``Erikwin show 2
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20:42.06dtidrowthe silence here is deafening
21:04.29brlcadheh
21:04.40brlcadbusy coding ;)
21:06.08brlcaddtidrow: did you ever directly contribute code to brl-cad or just indirectly involved via relationship with muuss and company?
21:06.38brlcadjust wonder, as I don't see your name in the authors file and would want to credit you if you have
21:06.56IriX64busy kodying, get it right :)
21:29.58dtidrowbrlcad: just indirectly so far
21:53.54dtidrowheh
21:54.14dtidrowI ought to try gentoo sometime...
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23:23.20brlcad<PROTECTED>
23:23.26brlcadoops :)
23:24.12dtidrowlol
23:24.14brlcadinterest in ice cream, of course
23:24.20dtidrowheh
23:25.02brlcadi think he's going to have a talk with the dairy farmer
23:30.56``Erik:o here I thought lee was straight and married, go figure
23:31.16``Erik"I laughed so hard, beer came out of my nose. And I don't even drink beer."
23:34.50IriX64``Erik your creative side showing :P
23:43.46``Erikoh, sorry *zips back up*
23:44.15IriX64my zip drive is on the other box :)
23:47.31dtidrow-thud!-
23:47.46dtidrowthat's us dropping into the gutter  ;-)
23:54.24IriX64plugh <--- thats me playing cave ;)
Jeff Waugh - find it at freshmeat.net! Modified by Tim Riker to work with blootbot logs, split per channel, etc. irclog2html for #brlcad on 20060831

irclog2html for #brlcad on 20060831

00:07.37IriX64time to bring up RedHat 6.0.
00:09.04Twingythat reminds me
00:09.15TwingyI need to install linux
00:09.32``Eriklast rhat I installed by choice was 4.2
00:09.54``Erik:/
00:10.05``Erikwhich breed, justin? debian? gentoo?
00:10.20``Erikubuntu seemed extremely developer unfreindly on the lappie alexis had
00:10.25Twingylast redhat I installed by choice was 2.0, 4.0, 4.1, 4.2, 5.0, 5.1, 5.2, 6.0, 6.1, 6.2, 7.0, 7.1, 8.0, 9.0, RHEL 3
00:10.36IriX64hahaha
00:10.48``Erikthat's more than the last
00:10.54Twingyno no
00:10.58TwingyI installed them all at once
00:11.01``Erik:o
00:11.08IriX64gotta find an easy way to copy files from win to redhat.
00:11.11``Erikum
00:11.17``Erikin linux... mount the windows drive...
00:11.18``Erikand
00:11.18IriX64so you got an aggregate system?
00:11.20``Erikcopy them...
00:11.40IriX64doh file systems don't match.
00:11.46``Erikeh?
00:11.54IriX64think vmware.
00:12.01``Erikso, uh
00:12.09``Eriklook at the disk image windows is running on
00:12.15``Erikand do a loopback device attach
00:12.16``Erik...
00:12.27IriX64its the other way around
00:12.37IriX64redhat is the guest.
00:12.44IriX64whoa...
00:13.43IriX64last file i transferred i burnt onto a cd but that gets real expensive real fast. hold ive got an erasbel here somewhere.
00:13.51IriX64just a sec.
00:14.12dtidrowcd's are expensive??????
00:15.17dtidrowwell, if you use a lot, I suppose
00:16.12Twingyso you did install vmware like I suggested
00:16.32IriX64yes, beautiful, except i farked up and installed server.
00:17.00IriX64brb
00:21.16``Erikif the guest rhat has network access, you should be able to drop samba on it and talk via winderz network shares
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00:36.59``Erikswank, http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/VAX mentions brlcad :)
00:37.50``Erikah
00:37.55``Erikand sean is to blame, hah
00:46.43brlcadahh, yeppers
00:47.10brlcadhey, anyone got a sec to comment on a diagram?
00:49.53brlcadhttp://ftp.brlcad.org/tmp/CAD_Diagram.pdf
00:53.28brlcadthe overlaps and ratios are mostly all quite intentional/deliberate, though still a very rough stab -- needs a lot more detail me thinks mebbie, perhaps expanding the acronyms
01:09.54Twingythrow in a couple backronyms and recursonyms for good measure.
01:16.53MaloeranThat's one elaborate and clear diagram. It's intended for managers, right? :)
01:17.34``Erikthere're "letters", no mgr would feel comfortable with that on the screen
01:17.42``Erikletters go by bullets on powerpoint slides, that's it
01:30.20brlcadMaloeran: uh, lets just say it's intended to explain how brl-cad "fits in" on the highest level
01:30.23brlcad;)
01:32.10TwingyDEY TUK R' JBS!
02:10.17MaloeranIt seems rather painful to make much sense out of this, but maybe that's not the intended purpose...
02:15.43brlcadi don't mind painful as long as sense *can* be made out of it.  if people have to use a few neurons to understand it then that's fine.. if something is really confusing, then that would be a problem
02:15.59brlcadit is a little too busy, too many heavy lines.. /me tones some of them down
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02:47.06IriX64irssi compiled in the virtual machine :)
02:47.33IriX64tempted to try brlcad.
02:54.43IriX64thought you were threatning me for a moment :)
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04:11.51CIA-9BRL-CAD: 03lbutler * 10brlcad/misc/ (doxygen_structure Doxyfile):
04:11.51CIA-9BRL-CAD: New doxygen configuration file Doxyfile. The doxygen_structure file defines
04:11.51CIA-9BRL-CAD: the layout of the heirarchy of the doxygen document
04:38.35CIA-9BRL-CAD: 03lbutler * 10brlcad/src/librt/memalloc.c: annotate malloc entries so that we know where the allocation took place
04:41.53CIA-9BRL-CAD: 03lbutler * 10brlcad/include/ (16 files): miscelaneous changes to support doxygen
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05:49.12CIA-9BRL-CAD: 03lbutler * 10brlcad/src/librt/db_lookup.c: added BU_FLSTR to malloc/free to help track down memory creation/leaks
05:51.09CIA-9BRL-CAD: 03lbutler * 10brlcad/src/libbu/ (21 files): Mostly doxygen formatting.
05:53.26CIA-9BRL-CAD: 03lbutler * 10brlcad/misc/ (Doxyfile doxygen_structure): Added to structure. Changed Doxyfile to put html output in subdirectory of misc instead of in my Mac's Sites directory.
05:54.51CIA-9BRL-CAD: 03lbutler * 10brlcad/Makefile.am: added target for producing doxygen run
05:55.36CIA-9BRL-CAD: 03lbutler * 10brlcad/src/libbn/anim.c: doxygen patches
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07:24.02MaloeranErik, any idea of where I should or will find Lee's code to read BRL-CAD geometry? Seems simple enough, but I would rather work from the code he already wrote
07:30.37MaloeranAnd I don't think the cathedral/galleon modeller ever received an email for some reason o.O
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14:41.01``Erikmal: I'll go ask him, uh, right now
15:27.23MaloeranThanks Erik, I'm supposed to do that before September 1 :}
18:39.26brlcadi like deadlines
18:39.37brlcadespecially the *whooshing* sound as they pass by
18:42.53dtidrowrofl
18:47.51``Erikmeh, it's not a deadline, it's a 'milestone'
18:57.14``Erikalexis: context.c:141: warning: implicit declaration of function `_rtDestroyContext'
18:57.47``Erikputting an underscore infront of symbols is A Bad Thing(tm) on several os's
19:05.26MaloeranIs it? It was to differentiate between functions exported in the dlopen'ed library, the underscore marked functions not meant for "public" use but for the wrapper
19:06.02MaloeranSo Erik, can I find Lee's code somewhere?
19:11.02``Erikmal: would putting "static" infront of the symbol be adequate? :) linkers often prefix symbols with one or two underscores and treat the number of leading underscores as a meaningful thing...
19:11.05``Erikhe said he'd commit it
19:11.15``Erikwe got access to the repo sorted out on our side today...
19:11.18``ErikI'll go prod him, brb
19:14.35``Erikhe'll commit what he has, says he'll finish it this evening, and apologizes for how long it's taken
19:15.02``Erik(btw, the platform your shtuff failed on was fbsd/amd64)
19:15.52MaloeranI just tried your autoreconf stuff here at home and it broke as well, but I think my tools are outdated
19:16.13``Erikautomake 1.9 and autoconf 2.59  is what I write for
19:16.31``Erikit SHOULD work with automaek 1.6 and autoconf 2.53
19:16.47``Erikit should not with automake 1.4 and autoconf 2.13, much has changed since those dark days
19:17.18MaloeranOkay I got that, it still failed though
19:18.39Maloeranhttp://rafb.net/paste/results/sgQRrp53.html
19:22.12``Erikautoreconf -vi
19:23.03MaloeranAh right, thanks. I'll learn this stuff eventually.. :)
19:23.11``Erik<-- points at the errors from l ines 25 to 32
19:23.48``Eriklee is committing right now, btw
19:24.55MaloeranGood, thanks
19:25.32``Erikeh, that buttmonkey used a straight makefile and hardcoded brlcad's path
19:26.26MaloeranThat's stuff I know how to work with, fine with me :)
19:27.12brlcadi think he still doesn't know how automake/autoconf work yet really
19:29.05brlcadi'm just wondering how many times erik will have to see autoreconf "not work by default" before you see the utility of the script :)
19:30.11``ErikI see the utility, it's dandy for people who have no clue what they're doing *shrug* :)
19:30.20brlcadi've yet to see a new autotools user not hit the same half-dozen basic errors.. and they're completely stupid ones imho, usually buried deep in useless verbose output
19:31.09brlcadeven for folks that have a clue, it just hides the stupid gnu folks idiotic tendancies
19:31.18brlcads/tendancies/religion/
19:31.44ValarQALL HAIL Bob Dobs!
19:33.52ValarQ"thou shalt"?
19:36.42brlcadtoo long to get into, i left my soap box at home
19:37.32brlcadbut a limited few gnu folks are rather opinionated (especially the autotools folks) on how thou shalt use their tools in ways that are counterproductive and unreasonable really
19:38.31brlcadi'm apparently in the minority (with respect to their religion) of liking things to work by default and not distributing burden unnecessarily
19:39.07ValarQok, i must confess i havent rolled that many autotools packages myself, only a few smaller things
19:40.32``Erikif it was hard to write, it should be hard to use! :D
19:40.38ValarQhah
19:53.57IriX64try working with AM_PATH_SDL not found in library.
19:54.52ValarQhmm
20:05.47``Erikalexis: do another update, g-tri.c is done and 'works'
20:06.16``Erikirix: in order to run aclocal, you need sdl development stuff installed.
20:21.21MaloeranI noticed, Erik, thanks
20:22.03IriX64thanks Erik.
20:24.56``Erikyes, I am erik, stater of the obvious, purveyor of unnecessary information...
20:39.21IriX64pooh.... checking for C compiler default output file name... configure: error C compiler cannot create executables. whats that all about ?
20:40.49brlcadyou have some bad option/compiler set
20:41.10IriX64heh and Erik claimed ... ;)
20:41.15brlcadlook in config.log near the end for details (like it suggests iirc)
20:41.37IriX64ty
20:41.40IriX64:)
21:02.55IriX64--verbose is a wordy sort. :)
21:54.44IriX64did she have a good trip :)
21:54.44brlcadheh
21:55.46``Erikthe bike, I presume? :)
21:56.40IriX64err i get errors loading that page.
21:56.52brlcad"errors"?
21:57.04IriX64just a sec.
21:57.26IriX64bad Cmap/encoding.
21:57.28MaloeranEh no, I had the bicycle, but the rest ( clothes mostly ) went to Philadelphia before I was put in a cab to Washington Dulles to catch a plane to Montreal
21:57.38``Erikworks fine for me
21:57.53IriX64fark.
21:57.53``Erikactually, some of the text boxes are clipped at the bottom
21:57.55brlcad``Erik: added CAID just for you :P
21:58.15``Erikelectronic cad, electrical, conceive, and validation
21:58.18``Erikwoohoo!
21:59.10IriX64ill worry about my farked up viewer later :)
22:00.02brlcadthe text box clipping seems to be out of my control, tried various things
22:00.18brlcadi get a hairline white outline around them too
22:00.19IriX64electronic cad wasn't that movie called Tron? :)
22:03.30brlcadahh, comes out perfect if I don't use v4 pdf, and instead use v5
22:04.07IriX64at least 1.
22:04.10IriX64:)
22:04.17MaloeranSeems perfect in xpdf 3.0
22:04.50brlcadjust uploaded the v5 now, does that render well?
22:05.18MaloeranOuch, no transparency at all now in xpdf
22:05.32MaloeranUnless that is the intended effect
22:05.43brlcadhmm.. what do you mean?
22:05.58``Eriklooks good on mine
22:07.06brlcadshould look like this: http://ftp.brlcad.org/tmp/Industry_Diagram.png
22:07.12Maloeranhttp://www.rayforce.net/pdfold.png http://www.rayforce.net/pdfnew.png
22:07.57brlcadheh, eww
22:08.21brlcadthat's some pretty harsh line rendering too even on the good one
22:10.07brlcadinteresting.. it got the "ornamentation" on the corners right in the new one, but gets it wrong in the old one
22:10.08MaloeranYes, it could use some anti-aliasing
22:10.10IriX64ill figure out my viewer later (sigh)
22:18.21IriX64hah comparing floating point with == or != is unsafe <=== so get a condom ;)
22:20.24IriX64wrapper takes on whole new meaning. :)
22:21.49IriX64smokity break, back later.
22:29.57brlcadheh
22:30.40brlcadB
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23:13.07IriX64geek code (one language i'm weak in)
23:13.10IriX64:)
23:13.39IriX64shouldn't it be geec  :)
23:14.38IriX64+?
23:15.05IriX64ratz those aren't the right operators in gee c are they? :)
23:15.58IriX64reboot hopefully see you soon.
23:17.10CIA-9BRL-CAD: 03lbutler * 10brlcad/src/libbu/ (39 files): Doxygen comments
Jeff Waugh - find it at freshmeat.net! Modified by Tim Riker to work with blootbot logs, split per channel, etc. irclog2html for #brlcad on 20060901

irclog2html for #brlcad on 20060901

01:12.50*** join/#brlcad IriX64 (n=IriX64@bas3-sudbury98-1168050759.dsl.bell.ca)
03:08.32IriX64``Erik thanks for saying c2 instead of c4, was worried for a minute ;)
03:10.35IriX64btw that was a long minute, when did you say that yesterday? :)
03:11.35IriX64tap,tap,tap distinctly hollow, who has that stuff? :)
03:12.01IriX64got some filesys stuff to do back l8r.
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16:44.41brlcadheh, incredible.. http://www.mcgirt.net/RC/VIDEOS/Giant_B52/
16:44.59brlcadcost about 1.5k for each of the 8 real turbine engines, 2 years to build it
16:45.59clock_brlcad: turbine engine just for 1500 USD?
16:46.29dtidrowmicroturbines
16:46.34clock_ah
16:46.57dtidrowlooks like a 1/12 scale model or so
16:48.01brlcadyeah, roughly
16:48.23brlcadshame to dump that much into a hobby to crash and burn it :)
16:48.49clock_brlcad: was it built just for the crash?
16:48.58brlcadheh, no
16:49.07brlcaddid you watch the videos?
16:49.57clock_brlcad: I watched just the crash
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17:15.21cadguygot the new doxygen stuff online.  Only libbu fully converted to the new format so far.
17:19.36dtidrow:-)
17:20.28brlcadhmm, hung the first time, but looks good now
17:21.29CIA-9BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/misc/Doxyfile: use 'BRL-CAD' for the project name
17:23.53cadguyNote that ftp.brlcad.net isn't connected
17:24.22brlcadahh, that'd do it
17:24.45cadguyWorking on libbn right now
17:24.52cadguyGot vmath, working on bn.h
17:31.50brlcadthe mirroring can be set up to go whichever way it makes sense to go, even bidirectional -- but then deleting files is a pita
17:33.17brlcadright now it goes from sf to ftp mainly just from a backup perspective -- i had been using a script that just uploads to both for the time being
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17:35.34brlcadsince we cant go ftp -> sf until a quota justification can be made (which we don't have enough reason for now), I'll just leave it as sf -> ftp
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18:18.45IriX64ValarQ: you sound like someone who's interested in what I call tweaking. :) That's why the screen shots.
18:19.56IriX64Hah. Steve Miller ---> "Really love your peaches, wanna shake your tree."
18:20.19IriX64whoa. thats not directed at anybody.
18:24.20IriX64ValarQ: feel free to show those to anybody who expresses an interest. :)
18:25.33IriX64and a multitude of key clicks is heard as they churn out their code :)
18:26.02IriX64don't mind me, im in a good mood.
18:26.19IriX64vax instruction set is complete.
18:30.40brlcadget the simh vax running yet?
18:31.01IriX64haha no its in vmware.
18:31.13IriX64:)
18:31.27brlcadvmware doesn't have a vax simulator
18:31.37IriX64hehe my system does.
18:31.49brlcadoookay
18:32.05IriX64starting a brlcad build for it now....
18:33.41IriX64vax-dec-ultrix lets tango.
18:34.48brlcadah, not a vax sim, but perhaps a vax cross-compilation
18:34.53brlcadquite a difference
18:35.10IriX64shoot me i'm literatly challenged :)
18:41.27brlcadif it were only that easy :)
18:45.22IriX64use your sidearm :)
18:45.40IriX64.................................................................... did i get you?:)
18:51.33brlcadhuh?
18:51.57IriX64poor attempt at virtual bullets :)
18:52.06brlcadah
18:52.24dtidrowdrat
18:52.33IriX64steppenwolf, all right.
18:52.40IriX64drat?
18:54.39dtidrowwas trying to /msg lee, and his client just disconnected
18:55.01IriX64whats /msg?
18:55.09IriX64:)
18:55.20dtidrowprivate message in irc
18:55.43IriX64i click the dcc chat icon, much easier.
18:55.49dtidrowessentially irc's version of IM
18:55.51dtidrowheh
18:56.01dtidrowwimp  ;-)
18:56.04IriX64don't have to keep typing /msg
18:56.07IriX64:)
18:56.19IriX64yah weemp:)
18:56.53ValarQIriX64: what what?
18:57.18IriX64we of the two finger school try to keep typing to a minimum.:)
18:57.31IriX64what weemp?
18:57.36IriX64weenie wimp :)
18:58.02ValarQIriX64: you're in a school for two fingers?
18:58.08dtidrowrofl
18:58.12IriX64no no i graduated :)
18:58.34ValarQok...
18:58.37dtidrowif you only have two fingers, how do you grab the mouse?  ;-)
18:58.53IriX64palm pilot style. :)
18:59.34ValarQwith your tongue?
19:00.05IriX64is that an offer? (and if it is i hope you're female) ;)
19:01.29IriX64spontaniety sometimes lacks decourm (sigh sorry).
19:01.38ValarQkeep hoping
19:02.01IriX64meaning youll have the gender change operation for me? :)
19:02.36IriX64CCR yeahhhhhhhhh.
19:03.22IriX64wait'll i put my mind back in, it's out being washed right now.
19:04.03IriX64"you can ponder perputal motion, hitch your mind on a crystal day...."
19:05.17brlcadIriX64: just type /query username
19:05.33brlcadit should open a session similar to dcc but without the overhead and firewall requirements
19:06.09IriX64opened it.
19:06.25IriX64i can do that with a mouse click to though.
19:06.34brlcadmost clients have that
19:06.51IriX64true.
19:06.51brlcadstill, a query is far better than dcc chat
19:06.58brlcadsame end result
19:07.08IriX64meaning dcc does'nt always connect?
19:07.15IriX64doesn't too.
19:07.41brlcaddcc has extra overhead and connection associated, have to make sure you can directly form a connection on both ends
19:08.04brlcadwhich requires firewalls to be more lenient, instead of query where you just talk through the irc network like usual
19:08.18IriX64should know that this isn't school :)
19:08.43brlcadschool?
19:09.00IriX64dcc needs an open port query uses the currently open port thats all.
19:09.26brlcadheh, not quite
19:09.36IriX64splain then lucy :)
19:11.18brlcadi just did.. but even easier is to just refer: http://www.kvirc.de/docu/doc_dcc_connection.html
19:12.05brlcadthat port has to be negotiated with the network, and isn't the same one that's outbound for the irc network already
19:13.12brlcadso if you're running a firewall, that's one extra port that both ends minimally need to allow and even without that, there's still the negotiation in general.. why bother when a session can be opened up as-is with a query with NO effort
19:13.36brlcadand i don't mean just no user effort.. no network/implementation/network effort
19:14.29IriX64agreed but i miss the ease of file transfering.
19:14.29brlcadi couldn't care less what you do, but I know I will personally rarely ever respond to a dcc chat .. there's just no point
19:14.41brlcaddcc file transfer isn't dcc chat -- you said chat
19:15.16IriX64hehe its still dcc, but chat i rarely have need of either the dcc variety or the query variety.
19:15.49IriX64not many people do that to me and i rarely take the intiative.
19:15.59brlcadstill, the problems you have with dcc file transfer are exemplary in itself
19:16.24IriX64feeling loqacious are you?
19:16.37IriX64loquacious too.
19:16.37brlcad~dict loqactious
19:16.57brlcad~dict loquacious
19:17.13brlcadgassy.. hmm..
19:17.22IriX64how sweet a friendly bot.:)
19:18.07IriX64heh gregarious (brings up mr. Rogers)
19:18.25IriX64what a neighbourhood.
19:20.18MaloeranUse a mouse to irc? What blasphemy
19:20.47IriX64we'll call it irmousing.
19:21.29IriX64bbiab smokity break.
20:23.20*** join/#brlcad dan_falck (n=danfalck@pool-71-111-76-8.ptldor.dsl-w.verizon.net) [NETSPLIT VICTIM]
20:23.38*** join/#brlcad dan_falck (n=danfalck@pool-71-111-76-8.ptldor.dsl-w.verizon.net)
21:25.13IriX64hah 1hr 22minutes for vaxcad to compile.
21:26.04IriX64wonder if celine dionne singing had any effect on compile time? :)
21:26.39IriX64a happy compiler produces good code, my compiler likes music so....
21:28.12IriX64simh eh?
21:28.49IriX64have around here on 8" disk somewhere a z80 emulator.
21:30.07IriX64heh prefer the trout. it's edible :)
21:30.31IriX64gave mine away.
21:30.55IriX64little 3 board computer system s100 buss based.
21:31.04IriX6464k ram
21:31.51IriX64built a card punch and paper tape punch replacement out of it.
21:32.23IriX64all hand rolled asm for the z80.
21:32.52IriX64i'll stop reminicing now:)
21:33.23IriX64the problem with aging is that which is there to remember grows.
21:34.23IriX64vms pfffttt this ones for ultrix (dec style)
21:34.51IriX64say does vms have an xserver?
21:35.11IriX64that would be too crazy, cross compile for vms.
21:35.15dtidrowthink it did near the end
21:35.22IriX64end?
21:35.29dtidrowof DEC
21:35.33IriX64still several around.
21:35.36IriX64oh i c
21:35.42IriX64hp owns them now.
21:35.51dtidrowvia Compaq
21:35.59IriX64no compaq sold out
21:36.42IriX64hahahahah blahhhhhhhh.:)
21:36.43dtidrowIIRC, Compaq bought DEC, then HP absorbed them
21:37.13IriX64thought hp bought the dec division and compaq went its way.
21:37.36IriX64how you do you feel maloeran?
21:37.41dtidrownope - if you buy a 'Compaq', you're realy buying from HP
21:38.13IriX64young too.
21:38.13IriX64good dtidrow now i can sleep nights.
21:38.17dtidrowdon't you remember the HP-Compaq merger?
21:38.26dtidrowhappened back in the late '90s
21:38.28IriX64actually i don't
21:38.34MaloeranIt's just peculiar to hear people talk of these days I have never known, although I sometimes wish I did
21:39.12IriX64if you need help in computer trivial pusuit, call maloeran.
21:39.38dtidrowyeah - I'm dating myself when I mention that I actually took some courses at a local DEC office
21:39.50IriX64now in basic 10 goto 10 does what?
21:40.12dtidrowewww, basic...  :-\
21:40.28dtidrowhow old?
21:40.33IriX64at 80 you'r qualified to say you *are dirt.
21:40.43dtidrowheh
21:40.51IriX6450 qualifies as older than dirt.
21:40.58dtidrowheh
21:41.11IriX64so now the astute student knows i am between 50 and 80.
21:42.02dtidrowah, my mistake - it was 2002 that HP absorbed Compaq
21:42.04IriX64heh long as we're trivial pursuiting it, "Mabel, black label"
21:44.25dtidrowhave they quit making that stuff?
21:44.35IriX64my compiler sings, you can hear the bits shifting and rotating:)
21:44.43dtidrowlol
21:44.50IriX64what stuff 8" drives?
21:45.33dtidrowah, yes - the only place that I ever encountered 8" disks was the 'boot
21:45.44dtidrowboot drive for a 11/785
21:46.10dtidrowiirc, it held the microcode for the cpu
21:46.14IriX64they were in use by dec long before the 785.
21:46.30IriX64diags too
21:46.39dtidrowI'm sure, but that was the only place I ever came into contact with them
21:47.07IriX64did they do the job?
21:47.44dtidrowuntil the floppy wore out  :-)
21:50.01IriX64how to merge two databases in one easy step:)
21:51.11*** join/#brlcad ``Erik (i=erik@c-69-250-155-85.hsd1.md.comcast.net)
21:51.45IriX64awfull slow though
21:52.04IriX64ahh there its visible now slick.
21:55.39IriX64Twingy, you get that hole punched ;)
21:56.35IriX64oh my a head on with havoc.
21:57.00IriX64hahaha havocs running away from the cray.
21:57.14IriX64ill stop rambling now. sigh i do go on.
21:58.52Twingyhole?
21:59.55IriX64think heat.
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23:27.00IriX64oh boy toasted tomatoe sandwhich with mayo.. yum
23:29.20IriX64dtidrow: you worked for DEC?
23:35.31IriX64No project too simple to make too complex. Quite the religion SWPadnos
Jeff Waugh - find it at freshmeat.net! Modified by Tim Riker to work with blootbot logs, split per channel, etc. irclog2html for #brlcad on 20060902

irclog2html for #brlcad on 20060902

01:46.27IriX64just put the finishing touches on another photoshop image, wanna see ;)
01:48.58IriX64bah nobody appreciates my artwork :)
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14:02.47CIA-9BRL-CAD: 03lbutler * 10brlcad/src/libbn/ (8 files): Doxygen comments
14:05.24CIA-9BRL-CAD: 03lbutler * 10brlcad/misc/ (Doxyfile doxygen_structure): Doxygen updates for libbn
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21:51.24CIA-9BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/sh/shtool: go ahead and (re)quell the warning about not being able to determine bold mode
21:51.58CIA-9BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/doc/README.Linux: add a section about ubuntu dependencies
23:13.50*** join/#brlcad IriX64 (n=Who@bas3-sudbury98-1168050759.dsl.bell.ca)
23:45.10IriX64defeat at the hands of software is ignomious.
23:47.05MaloeranSoftware can be tricky at chess, better challenge it to a game of badminton
23:47.41IriX64which byte is the bird?
23:47.58IriX64ahhhh a whole flock of them came :)
23:57.06IriX64now they're just flapping around and rotating :)
23:58.26IriX64when are you guys and gals going to put up an ftp server?
Jeff Waugh - find it at freshmeat.net! Modified by Tim Riker to work with blootbot logs, split per channel, etc. irclog2html for #brlcad on 20060903

irclog2html for #brlcad on 20060903

00:04.09IriX64mines up but you'll never get to it, i'm behind a router.
01:31.46CIA-9BRL-CAD: 03johnranderson * 10brlcad/src/conv/ (dxf-g.c dxf-g.1): Added support for SPLINE entities
01:50.56brlcadyay, splines
01:53.56IriX64spliffs too? ;)
01:56.58TwingyI used a spline once
02:03.23*** join/#brlcad Twingy (n=justin@c-69-250-236-111.hsd1.md.comcast.net)
02:03.37IriX64short trip?
02:26.49*** join/#brlcad digitalfredy (n=digitalf@200.71.62.161)
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02:36.46Twingyto your moms house, yea
03:00.00IriX64hahaha my sister's better looking.
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09:39.20b0efit would be nice (and correct) if nurb.h was named nurbs.h;)
09:48.52clock_non uniform rational b-something splines
11:22.47b0efeh, no
11:23.11b0efclock_: it's non uniform rational basis splines
14:02.10brlcadb0ef: that it would
14:03.01brlcadperhaps at the next minor update
14:13.21``Erikwhat happened to the monthly cycle? O.o
14:16.31brlcadit's still on
14:16.54brlcadbut next update is patch update, not minor
14:17.06brlcadwhich will be like today or tomorrow
14:27.04MaloeranEh. How are your balls doing, Erik? :)
14:27.44``Erikuhmmmmm, if you mean the metaball implementation, I haven't touched them lately
14:28.21brlcadheh
14:28.28``Erikif you don't, I'm backing away now...
14:28.34brlcadbut the others he has, of course
14:29.18MaloeranEheh, I was wondering about the metaballs of course, seems like a tricky problem to get decent performance
14:30.27``ErikI did a little performance oriented effort, but most of the work is wiring into mged correctly, it'd seem
14:33.30``Erikonce it all works, I'll look into making it fast :)
14:34.02MaloeranI was wondering, is the acceleration structure built for a particular treshold point or you can smoothly change that?
14:34.34``Erikthere is no acceleration structure.
14:35.00MaloeranI see, okay
14:35.19``Erikat the moment, it does a fairly coarse walk down the ray, once it changes sign, it begins doing a crude binary search until the fine resolution is met
14:35.44``Eriksorta
14:38.42``Erikbut I need to get the primitive editing capability completed, some crap like the tesselation capability in, etc... before I worry about that stuff
14:39.09MaloeranHow do you expect not to miss some hits near the edge of a ball? Unless I misunderstood how you do it
14:39.18``Erikoh, I miss 'em
14:39.30MaloeranOh :), makes sense then
14:39.41``ErikI just hope that my coarse step is small enough so it's not really visible
14:40.01``Erikit LOOKS ok to my naked eye *shrug* :)
14:40.02MaloeranNow, that is slow
14:40.16brlcadyeah, crazy newtonian walking :P
14:40.20``Eriksurprisingly, not too terribly slow
14:40.39``Erikwithin an order of magnitude of a straight sphere
14:40.52``Erikfor a single control point metaball (which produces.. a straight sphere)
14:41.07``Erikand the speed is linear with regard tot he number of control points
14:42.03MaloeranI dreamed of that problem last night ( don't ask why, I'm weird like that ) ; I think I got some ideas for acceleration structure for large numbers of balls, though I'm sure you do as well
14:42.16``Erikwell, it depends on the field accuracy and formula
14:42.37``Erika common one is to use an approximation formula so you can generate bounding sphere heirarchies
14:43.16``Erik<-- not there, yet... some people want to use the primitive yesterday, so I gotta get the primitive editing abilities finished first
14:43.25``Erikand they can throw big hardware at it and wait a bit :)
14:43.30Maloeran*nods* Let's talk about it later then
15:14.48CIA-9BRL-CAD: 03lbutler * 10brlcad/src/libbu/ (22 files): Doxygen updates
15:15.47CIA-9BRL-CAD: 03lbutler * 10brlcad/src/libbn/ (font.c list.c marker.c msr.c): Doxygen updates
15:17.01CIA-9BRL-CAD: 03lbutler * 10brlcad/include/ (bn.h bu.h vmath.h): Doxygen updates
15:17.59MaloeranSeems I know where to find good examples of the desired Doxygen format now
15:18.06CIA-9BRL-CAD: 03lbutler * 10brlcad/misc/doxygen_structure: Doxygen updates
15:18.38brlcadhe's been on a binge lately
15:18.46brlcadprobably after talking to you
15:20.06brlcadheh, barely a single commit for like 6 months and then a slew of these
15:20.20brlcadthe extra doxygen organization is pretty cool though, I must say
15:20.32MaloeranI'm not familiar with the "on a binge" expression, can you express the same idea in other words?
15:20.42brlcad~dict binge
15:21.19MaloeranI read that, it just didn't seem excessively clear
15:21.24brlcadahh
15:21.35brlcadit's just doing something "excessive"
15:21.42MaloeranRight, thanks
15:21.46brlcadlike not commiting hardly at all in a year
15:21.59brlcadand now suddenly committing a lot in the span of a week
15:22.14brlcadthen he'll probably be back to no more coding soon enouch ;)
15:23.13Maloeran:) He also wrote code to ease extracting BRL-CAD geometry for me
15:28.51brlcadthat's code already written ;)
15:28.58``Erikbinge&purge
15:29.07``Erikhe copied and gutted code, he didn't really write anything :)
15:29.16brlcadjust pulling from the 50+ examples in the converters/ray-tracers/examples, etc ;)
15:29.18``Erikg-stl.c I'd imagine
15:30.12brlcadthough nice to "trim it out" of course
15:30.28MaloeranAw, don't try to ruin my illusions of a both zealous and competent manager :)
15:30.41brlcadi'm baffled why someone hasn't made the standard "convert from implicit to poly" into a function yet
15:30.56brlcadthere's like 10 converters that do the exact same code
15:31.06``ErikI mentioned it, he said it was all already written, just copy and edit
15:31.06``Erik...
15:31.42brlcadexposed?
15:31.57``Erikopposed to static
15:32.03brlcadthe calls are exposed.. the glue function just doesn't exist
15:32.14brlcadwhat's static that you need?
15:32.23brlcads/need/use/
15:32.39MaloeranThe chunks of BRL-CAD I read were fairly good code, but I'm clearly missing most of the big picture
15:34.15``Erikerm, nothing to my knowledge, I just meant that I should be able to grab one function on a tree and get a tree of polygon crap and the info I might need in the structs *shrug* :)
15:35.10brlcadyou can go from nmg to triangle with just one cal
15:35.45brlcadbut it's just odd that you can't go from code to triangle or even node to nmg -- all the converters do the same walk_tree
15:36.11brlcadMaloeran: most of the code is actually relatively exceptionally well given it's size
15:36.54MaloeranQuite true brlcad, I was surprised
15:36.56brlcadit's just "given it's size", you *will* find loads of feature creep and a need for refactoring where it hasn't yet happened
15:37.14``Erikand archaic ways of doing things and syntax
15:37.32brlcadand the "oh, this tool does what I need" .. copy, edit, done
15:37.45brlcadsans refactoring into a function/library call
15:37.51MaloeranYes, I read code that could break nicely on 64 bits when accessing over 4gb... Simple flaws, such as conversions between pointers and int
15:38.34``Erikhrmmm, on most of the 64b arch's we deal with, int is 8byte, same as pointer, iirc
15:38.40``Erikamd64 and ia64 are "weird"
15:39.02MaloeranHence why ptrdiff_t and intptr_t exist
15:39.35MaloeranOn amd64 on windows, even long is 32 bits ( or it would break backwards compatibility in their headers )
15:42.08``Erikhum, irix/r12k with -64 shows int as 32 and long as 64, funky, I thought both were 64b
15:42.14brlcadyeah, there's a general lack of std types since most of the code well predates stdint and family
15:42.59Maloeran*nods* They couldn't really do better back then, and their assumptions on data types made sense
15:47.40brlcadit would be nice to assume stdint/stddef availability, that would take care of some of the issues
15:47.54brlcadthough machine.h still needs to be decommisioned before that could happen
15:48.35brlcadand I don't think they were c89, so it'd require a jump to c99 iirc too
15:48.46brlcadand that's a different ball of wax altogether
15:49.48brlcadand in the big scheme of things, just not nearly as important as many other things that need to be worked on
15:52.59MaloeranRight, it will be required at some point to handle big datasets
15:54.35brlcadwell it does handle big datasets now, at least in the ray-tracer and db layer
15:54.46brlcadjust maybe not on amd64 on windows
15:55.09brlcadand maybe not for a particular tool or few
15:55.35brlcadthat's the problem with large codebases.. you can almost always find an exception that doesn't "comply" ;)
16:02.11IriX64the c2, a true 128 bit machine :)
16:02.48Maloeran128 bits memory addressing?
16:02.56IriX64cpu
16:03.29IriX64thats for spewing nonsense :)
16:04.48IriX64whats this? building 64-bit was requested but the build seems to be non 64bit.
16:05.41IriX64what do you care what its running on eh?
16:05.57IriX64let me cross it will you. :)
16:06.22IriX64want to use your 64 bit code... wait i see the problem.
16:06.37IriX64you need to know don't you?
16:06.59IriX64ill cross it from the generic code.
16:07.15IriX64heh thanks for the compliment.
16:07.50MaloeranSeriously, what are you babbling about? :)
16:08.04IriX64--ignore the machine specific 64 bit code.
16:08.19IriX64im trying to cross compoile BRLCAD.
16:08.24IriX64compile too.
16:08.44MaloeranAh, right
16:09.15IriX64when my c2 comes in ill be able to runtime test this thing ;)
16:10.06brlcadbabbling is quite appropriate.. I sometimes have NO idea what it is you go on about, incoherent statements
16:10.22brlcadyou really shouldn't
16:10.29brlcadit does get distracting/annoying
16:10.37IriX64you have to read from top left at an angle to bottom right :)
16:10.58brlcadsee, just what the hell does that mean? :)
16:11.48IriX64never read codes and secert writings, im just making my brand of humor jokes hoping someone will catch them.
16:12.26brlcadthe jokes are a bit too think sometimes I think, or out of context
16:12.48IriX64if im serious about something ill preface it with seriously.... (probably never happen)
16:12.49``Eriksorry, none of us smoke pot, especially not in the quantities required to get your brand of humor ;)
16:13.00IriX64biggest doobies you've ever seen :)
16:13.30IriX64and its early.
16:13.53IriX64wine tipped? Try wine dipped. :)
16:15.05IriX64seriously... im trying out my CFLAGS='-DWITHOUTCYGWIN' flag, see if you can figure out what it's supposed to do.
16:15.23brlcadagain another example of a statement that just doesn't compile .. i've never heard of wine tipped doobies if that's what you meant, so wine dipped doobie means nothing.. :)
16:15.32IriX64:)
16:16.05MaloeranTried -mno-cygwin? You should never need a define for that
16:16.34IriX64that doesn't exist (yet but it might, thanks)
16:17.04IriX64-m is taken tho theres a lot already there.
16:17.45brlcadcross-compilation for different bit lengths won't likely work very well fwiw
16:17.55IriX64maybe i erred, you saying your compiler supports -mno-cygwin?
16:18.17brlcadgcc under cygwin should support that option
16:18.21IriX64brlcad: true attack from generic code wherever possible.
16:18.58IriX64brlcad now whos being obtusde.
16:19.04IriX64obtuse too.
16:19.48brlcader, still you -- what do you mean?
16:20.01IriX64if these binaries crash on my system ill be ever so happy.
16:20.17IriX64explain -mno-cygwin.
16:21.08brlcadit's just a compiler option, see http://www.delorie.com/howto/cygwin/mno-cygwin-howto.html
16:21.45brlcadbasically, drops you down to just the core, i.e. what's in mingw
16:22.18IriX64brlcad: i don't give a *shit about windows binaries.
16:23.11IriX64ill visit windoze at a later date.
16:24.38brlcadhas less to do with windows binaries than it does to do with that compiler in that environment
16:24.56IriX64i like my approach better.
16:25.50IriX64$ CFLAGS='-DWITHOUTCYGWIN' ./configure --enable-almost-everything --with-x --wi
16:25.50IriX64th-math --enable-optimizations --disable-shared --prefix=/usr/craycad --host=c2
16:25.50IriX64-cray-unicos
16:26.02IriX64will taht configure and compile?
16:27.13IriX64i know, i know, i was told about pasting, mea culpa..
16:27.21brlcadit probably will, but it's not going to give you a cross-compiled binary
16:27.28IriX64bets?
16:28.16brlcadheh, not one that'll work
16:28.30IriX64a bet that will work? :)
16:29.08IriX64you're right i'll get *many binaries, not just one ;)
16:29.17brlcadmachine.h is hard-coded for detected compilation environments, cross-compiling isn't going to provide all the right flags it needs
16:29.51brlcadergo *crash* is what you're going to get if it's not cross-compiled for a platform with matching specs
16:30.29brlcadspecs being bit depths, byte orders, byte offsets, etc
16:30.41IriX64my compiler supports different machines, i run configure and parse it on the fly to configure my compilers and linkers accordingly.
16:30.53brlcadnot to mention the configure checks for sanity on the bit depths (which is what you ran into earlier)
16:31.08IriX64thats why i like a clean generic code line whereever possible.
16:31.52``Erikstave it off, 1 2 3, now you can count to three...
16:31.58brlcadwell, this is optimized and mostly pretty compiler generic code, but that doesn't mean it'll cross-compile and work ;)
16:32.33IriX64traditional cross compile you're right you guys bail at a simple check of setpgrp. :)
16:32.59IriX64my way it does produce appropriate code.
16:33.12brlcadand you've verified this how?
16:33.13IriX64people coming in ill be back in 15.
16:33.44brlcadi'm betting "appropriate" means that the compile simply didn't fail for you
16:34.02brlcadwhich is far from appropriate, and even farther from functional on that cross-compile platform
16:34.06Twingyalong with bert n' ernie
16:34.20``Eriksean, didja get a build on that vax11/780 simh image?
16:35.10Twingy21.1 jigavgr's
16:35.10brlcadi did, barley, but that was years ago.. not recent
16:35.28``Erikah, just recently you were installing netbsd on a simh image, I thought
16:37.16brlcadno no.. i was saying it'd be cool because I did install netbsd pretty easily a couple years ago
16:37.45``Erikah
16:37.54brlcadthe compile gave a bit of a hassle then, but the autotools stuff wasn't all sorted out back then
16:37.56``Erik<-- was too busy playing with lisp on a pdp1
16:38.52brlcadhmm.. i could toss up simh into parallels here.. that would save some of the setup time i had to do on os x for it last time
16:39.31``Erikhm, attaching all the devices and stuff?
16:40.36brlcadwell that and just getting simh to compile wasn't clean either
16:41.10brlcadhad to write some code to get it to compile, and I don't recall all the details ..
16:41.34brlcadlooks like there was a guy that provided a slew of pdp11 and vax bug fixes this summer.. swett
16:42.03``Erikhttp://www.homestarrunner.com/disk4of12.html
16:42.23``Erikhrm, I was doing it on fbsd, so "make install" was all I had to do
16:43.46IriX64may i give you a superficial look at project cassandra? this'll take a moment to type in.
16:46.11brlcadheh
16:46.21IriX64when configure runs i trap the checks and based on either the build switch or the hhost switc (not both) i either provide the build environmnment as accuratly as possible providing things that are needed if i have them or providing a generic if i dont (if i have neither im dead ) and for the host i try to provide as nearly as possible what is requried to actually cross-compile for that machine in much the same way, the results are stored
16:46.44IriX64and the compiler reads that file in so it and the linker knows what ist doing.
16:46.53IriX64ipc at its best.
16:47.38brlcad(on freebsd)
16:47.56brlcad*trying to ignore the peasant distraction
16:48.02Twingyremember the sparc ipc's those things were crap
16:48.59IriX64peasants quest????
16:49.24IriX64err twingy? define ipc.
16:50.10IriX64my ipc is inter-process communication (cheap variety)
17:27.14ValarQSTM!
17:27.43ValarQhttp://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Software_transactional_memory
17:31.09``Erik"chad vader", awesome
17:31.19``Erikhttp://youtube.com/watch?v=4wGR4-SeuJ0
18:47.53brlcadheh pretty funny
18:48.02brlcadahh, yes, stdint is c99
18:48.13brlcadtough nuggies
19:14.40IriX64shouldn't that be noogies :)
19:25.09brlcadin some contexts
19:27.13``Erikheh, klingons?
19:27.20IriX64for(i=0;i<strlen(string);i++){if((string[i]) == 'x');puts("End of the world has been found\n");}
19:27.38IriX64err -;
19:28.37``Erik(for-each (lambda (x) (if (= 'x' x) (display "End of world"))) (string-chars string))
19:28.38``Erikptbtbbtt
19:28.41IriX64can use *string+i too
19:29.13IriX64thought we spoke c here not lisp :)
19:29.21``Erikthat would be scheme, not lisp
19:29.28IriX64my mistake
19:29.42IriX64boot me this deserves a kick but not the ban.
19:30.05``Erik/kill IriX64 learn your languages
19:30.14IriX64heh
19:30.23IriX64im language challenged.
19:30.29``Erikno? k: perhaps? or possibly g:?
19:30.42IriX64y rather thann x.
19:31.01IriX64back to klingonese.
19:33.27IriX64``Erik you thought the end of world thing is what i was trying to do?
19:33.47IriX64im searching for x.
19:33.54IriX64in a string.
19:34.55IriX64lst line should read return(printf("end of world not found\n"));
19:34.59IriX64last too.
19:35.57brlcadand stating
19:36.01brlcadthe obvious about
19:36.12IriX64that means what?
19:36.15brlcadone line of code with 8 lines of explanation
19:36.31``Erikchar *s = string; while(*s++)if(*s=='x')printf("end world here");
19:36.36``Eriklearn pointers :D
19:36.59IriX64you forgot the alloca :)
19:37.13``Erikwhy? I don't want to duplicate the string o.O
19:37.35IriX64allocation on initialization then ?
19:38.03IriX64char * mystring="end of world here \0";
19:38.42``Eriksure
19:38.48``Erikor argv[1] for all I care
19:38.49``Erik:D
19:38.56IriX64few people realize mystring should be freed.
19:39.19``Erikuh, char *blah="cow"; free(blah); should not compile.
19:39.30IriX64bets?
19:39.50``Erikthe string will be retained in bss, which should not have any allocation/deallocation inside of main
19:40.05brlcader, it'll compile
19:40.10``Erikhrm, it compiled on my mac
19:40.20``Erikbut, naturally, fails horribly when ran
19:40.27brlcadyeah, can't free a static
19:40.38IriX64you didnt say static.
19:41.10IriX64autoallocas *should be freed.
19:41.16brlcads/static/string literal/
19:41.23brlcadsame difference
19:41.23``Erikthat you explained it as a "string" says it's bss, resides in static program data space
19:41.27IriX64except for alloca apil foolf running hard.....
19:41.41IriX64april too. :)
19:41.47``Erikand should NOT have any memory ops happen on it inside of main()
19:42.03IriX64its the return ``Erik
19:42.17IriX64a lot of times the system knows what its doing.
19:43.23IriX64cow ``Erik :)
19:43.29IriX64?
19:43.57``Erikcopy on write is unrelated
19:44.14IriX64thought that was ValarQ's specialty she drew such a pretty one.
19:44.58``Erikaaannndddd back out to left field.
19:45.06IriX64right!!!!!!!
19:45.22IriX64blargh it smoke break time.
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Jeff Waugh - find it at freshmeat.net! Modified by Tim Riker to work with blootbot logs, split per channel, etc. irclog2html for #brlcad on 20060904

irclog2html for #brlcad on 20060904

01:35.44*** join/#brlcad IriX64 (n=IriX64@bas3-sudbury98-1168051987.dsl.bell.ca)
01:46.51IriX64make -i
01:46.59IriX64whoa.
02:18.05CIA-9BRL-CAD: 03lbutler * 10brlcad/src/libbn/number.c: doxygen updates
02:19.39CIA-9BRL-CAD: 03lbutler * 10brlcad/src/libbn/number.c: Since it wasn't used anywhere, it seemed time for it to go to the attic
02:23.15CIA-9BRL-CAD: 03lbutler * 10brlcad/src/libbn/Makefile.am: Removed number.c
02:44.06*** join/#brlcad IriX64 (n=IriX64@bas3-sudbury98-1168051987.dsl.bell.ca)
02:44.48IriX64just had a nasty thought, is there some way for me to know when a commit is about to happen so i dont clutter the channel with my ramblings?
02:50.57IriX64hah desire` desire` anybody know it?
03:09.03brlcadbest to just not "clutter the channel" regardless ..
03:09.24IriX64so how do we chat and kibitz? :)
03:25.02TwingyIriX64, if it's any consolation, I woulda banned your ass months ago :)
03:25.08IriX64thenk you sir.
03:26.29TwingyInstead of trying so hard to get on sean's good side, do something useful or stop wasting our time...
03:26.55IriX64sean *has a good side ?:)
03:28.29Twingyyou will find I have little compassion for lackey's
03:29.06IriX64how about brass? :P
03:32.23Twingythere's always one really annoying person in 5 of the 7 irc channels I hang out on
03:33.03Twingythen there's the guy that beats the drum of his own percussion section
03:33.32Twingyand back to coding on gcam, toodles
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03:51.55brlcadheh
03:55.19Twingynot explicitly you weren't
04:00.35brlcadhuh?
04:00.51brlcadyou? me?  I wasn't explicitly doing anything afaik
04:02.11brlcadooh, i get it .. nah, I meant that *he* as in irix guy wasn't "trying" much of anything
04:02.46brlcadyou sait he was trying to get on my good side, I don't think he tries anything except maybe to get attention
04:03.09brlcadand just happens to be frickin' bizzare
04:43.11CIA-9BRL-CAD: 03lbutler * 10brlcad/src/libbn/ (noise.c plane.c plot3.c poly.c qmath.c rand.c): Doxygen updates
04:44.02CIA-9BRL-CAD: 03lbutler * 10brlcad/include/bn.h: Doxygen updates
05:13.14CIA-9BRL-CAD: 03lbutler * 10brlcad/src/libbn/const.c: Deleted gratuitous extra open-brace after doxygen comment
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12:59.43``Erikdamn there was a lot of clutter in the backlog... why do I even bother reading those? :)
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16:00.32brlcad``Erik: heh
16:01.06brlcadwhat the hell are you doing up at 9am?  needed another shot to put yourself back to sleep? :)
16:10.50``Erikheh, I'm always awake by nine, usually by 7... and I haven't had liquor in days o.O
16:11.20``Eriknow, I did have a beer last night (just one), so I can't make the claim that I haven't had alcohol in days, but *shrug*
16:19.38brlcadhmm i actually haven't had liquor since siggraph... *gasp*
16:19.43MaloeranNice, Erik :)
16:20.34brlcadgetting ready for the competition has kept me dry...
16:21.19MaloeranOut of curiosity, are you going to that raytracing conference in 2 weeks, brlcad? Or is it only Lee, Erik and myself?
16:23.49MaloeranThe program sure is not too inspiring
16:25.16brlcadi'm going
16:25.38brlcadprobably have to register at the last moment though
16:25.51MaloeranI haven't registered myself yet either
16:26.20brlcadit's a ieee, can't expect too much ;)
16:26.52MaloeranThere doesn't seem to be anything new in the program, it's all covered by a dozen papers all over the place o.O
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17:46.51brlcadwoo hoo..
17:47.55brlcadlooks like configure is going to take 20 min
18:03.46``Erikheh
18:03.52``Erikand then two weeks to compile? ;)
18:04.35brlcadi'm thinking it might actually already be throttled to the speed of the fax
18:04.47brlcadso yeah.. maybe
18:06.01brlcadi wasn't even sure it was working at first -- i ran configure and saw no output after two minutes.. then ran ./configure --help and waited.. took about 3-4 min to display the help :)
18:06.40brlcadit's been "checking the maximum length of command line arguments" for about 5 minutes now
18:09.03brlcadhmm... i think 20 minutes was optimistic
18:20.37``Erikis there any way to goof the speed for the compile sequence? or do you actually want those #'s? :)
18:21.34``Erikhttp://motherfuckingrecipes.com  heh
18:59.46brlcadheh, it's still checking thelength of comand line args..
19:00.50brlcadsimh is running full-steam according to a cpu monitor.. won't really know for sure about the timing until I can get a benchmark
19:03.59brlcadcould just be that certain operations, like I/O is extremely expensive
19:29.04brlcadwoot, done cheaking headers
19:29.45TwingyI might be done gcam by the time you're done compiling
19:31.20*** join/#brlcad clock_ (i=clock@84-72-92-118.dclient.hispeed.ch)
19:33.41``Erikbut will gcam be on hw that can be measured in dollars per ton? :D
19:33.46*** join/#brlcad TDyess (n=chatzill@27.36.33.65.cfl.res.rr.com)
19:34.20``Erikhttp://www.cookingforengineers.com neat
19:34.26brlcadscrew gflops and mflops, long live flops
19:35.02brlcadheh
19:35.13``ErikI'll call it... miniflop
19:35.17``Erik<-- holds his pinky to his lip
20:15.49*** join/#brlcad ChanServ (ChanServ@services.)
20:15.49*** mode/#brlcad [+o ChanServ] by irc.freenode.net
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Jeff Waugh - find it at freshmeat.net! Modified by Tim Riker to work with blootbot logs, split per channel, etc. irclog2html for #brlcad on 20060905

irclog2html for #brlcad on 20060905

00:30.52*** join/#brlcad Twingy (n=justin@c-69-250-236-111.hsd1.md.comcast.net)
01:45.06brlcadheh, "Elapsed configuration time ...........: 2 hours, 32 minutes, 44 seconds"
03:19.51MaloeranMost impressive :)
03:30.47dtidrowconfiguration for what?
04:20.27CIA-9BRL-CAD: 03lbutler * 10brlcad/src/libbn/ (9 files): Doxygen comment formatting
04:22.11CIA-9BRL-CAD: 03lbutler * 10brlcad/misc/doxygen_structure: removed bn_list group
06:06.24brlcaddtidrow: "./configure" took that long (something that usually takes 1-5 minutes)
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14:43.21*** join/#brlcad Vaijira (n=belladon@80.224.14.141)
15:06.24``Eriksweet, 2.5 hrs to run a quick little script
15:06.56brlcad:)
15:12.35*** join/#brlcad ValarQ (i=vq@90-225-114-111-no122.tbcn.telia.com)
15:16.01``Erikis it still compiling?
15:28.02brlcadoh most definitely
15:39.30MaloeranA bit early to guess how better the scene preparation is in comparison to the old prototype
15:42.18clock_good, better, best, bester
15:51.04MaloeranA good motto this is
17:29.15``Erikbestest
17:37.18brlcadbestest failed
18:01.11CIA-9BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/libdm/dm_obj.c: windows interface is no longer tied to X interface, so use DM_X correspondingly
19:31.21``Erikheh
22:20.38CIA-9BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/TODO: add some means to disable/minimize libfft on systems that don't have enough memory to compile the larger filters.
22:28.01CIA-9BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/rt/sh_tcl.c: remove unused buf arrays and other unused vars
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23:06.13*** part/#brlcad danex (n=david@adsl-156-96-31.asm.bellsouth.net)
23:49.13CIA-9BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/rt/rt.1: remove equine excrement statement about there being no maximum size limit
23:57.45``Erikequine, or bovine?
23:58.18dtidrow_workeither way, it's still excrement  ;-)
Jeff Waugh - find it at freshmeat.net! Modified by Tim Riker to work with blootbot logs, split per channel, etc. irclog2html for #brlcad on 20060906

irclog2html for #brlcad on 20060906

00:01.06``Erikmebbe the line should've been changed to reflect the true limit of 32k ?
00:01.14Twingy"It seems that Wolfgang Priklopil, the communications technician who kidnapped Austrian pre-teen Natascha Kampusch, relied on a Commodore 64 as his primary machine. Interestingly this is presenting some problems to the Austrian computer forensics people. Major General Gerhard Lang of the Federal Criminal Investigations Bureau told reporters it would 'complicate investigators' efforts' and would be difficult to transfer the files to m
00:01.14Twingyodern computers 'without loss.' Could this be the latest in the criminal world's security strategy? Can we expect to see Spectrums, Archimedes, and Atari STs turning up in police investigations soon?"
00:01.41``Erikheh
00:02.04``Erikdamnit, twinky, what'd we tell you about kidnapping preteens?
00:02.30``Erik(and c64 or sx64?)
00:02.44TwingyI aint looking
00:03.14``Erikyou dredged up an sx64 back in your apt, I dont' remember seeing a c64 :)
00:04.23dtidrow_workTwingy: you have an sx64?  I so wanted one of those back when I was in college
00:04.29CIA-9BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/BUGS: more details on the bizarre -s64 bug
00:04.41Twingysays the sophomore who buys a sports car during a war on oil
00:05.13dtidrow_workI oughta fire up the old Indigo I have and see if it still runs
00:05.14Twingydtidrow, a co-worker from my last employer gave it to me
00:05.15``ErikI'm special hurrrrrr
00:05.43dtidrow_workhaven't turned it on in years
00:05.49TwingyI have wheel of fortune
00:05.52``ErikI thought the war was on tar, that's used to make roads, not fuel cars
00:08.44dtidrow_workthat reminds me - did you guys see this: http://www.physics.uq.edu.au/pitchdrop/pitchdrop.shtml
00:45.40MaloeranMmhm, neat
00:46.32dtidrow_workwatching paint dry is nothing compared to watching pitch drip  :-)
01:21.24*** join/#brlcad IriX64 (n=IriX64@bas3-sudbury98-1168051987.dsl.bell.ca)
01:23.24``Erikglass does the same thing *shrug*
01:43.11IriX64glass of? ;)
01:43.55IriX64perhaps he prefers bottle of? :)
01:49.09``Erikno, like, window panes
01:49.11``Erikfucktard
01:49.12``Erik:)
01:49.47IriX64hrmph, only if yoyu're a woman will I accepts that. :)
01:50.34IriX64windows can't afford any more pain ``Erik :)
01:50.42IriX64pains too
01:51.33IriX64smokity break.
01:52.18Maloeran``Erik, it's more interesting when it's at room temperature :}
01:53.35``Erikmal: windows at room temperature are fluid... if you look at a hundred year old window pane, it's thicker at the bottom than the top
01:55.49MaloeranWoah. I see, I really didn't know that
02:03.38IriX64unless its plexiglass.
02:05.23IriX64did you people ever look at the files I sent to ftp.brlcad.org some time ago?
02:30.33``Erikno.
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15:38.32*** join/#brlcad ibot (i=ibot@pdpc/supporter/active/TimRiker/bot/apt)
15:38.33*** topic/#brlcad is http://brlcad.org/ || BRL-CAD is an open source solid modeling software suite || Developers needed! Read the HACKING file for details on getting involved
16:02.30*** join/#brlcad mauryzyo (n=fuysokoa@151.57.101.25)
16:02.38mauryzyohello everybody
16:02.56mauryzyoI have a problem in the installation of brl-cad
16:03.12mauryzyois there anybody that could help?
16:05.54mauryzyois it possible to install brl-cad in the Applications directory?
16:08.21MaloeranWhat operating system would that be? Compiling from source or installing binaries?
16:11.27``Erik"Applications" directory is very much a mac  thing, afaik
16:12.19mauryzyoI have mac osx
16:12.20``Erikyou should be able to install brlcad anywhere you have write and execute permission, so /Applications is ok, but brlcad does not have a bundle, so it's not friendly to how finder works...
16:12.46mauryzyoerik... no problem
16:13.00mauryzyoI can install it where you want
16:13.17mauryzyobut I don't know how
16:13.17mauryzyoI have the file .pkg
16:13.26mauryzyoI have run the .pkg
16:13.32mauryzyothen I go to terminal
16:13.40mauryzyoand I go to /usr
16:13.52mauryzyoand there there is the brlcad folder
16:13.53mauryzyook
16:14.01``Erikexport PATH=$PATH:/usr/brlcad/bin
16:14.04mauryzyo<PROTECTED>
16:14.05``Erikthen you can run "mged"
16:14.15``Erikyou MIGHT need to be running X11.app
16:14.24mauryzyoI have x11
16:14.49mauryzyobut... if I go to /usr/brlcad/bin
16:14.56mauryzyother eis not a file mged
16:15.01``Erikmebbe it's mged.sh
16:15.05``Erik?
16:16.09mauryzyowhen I go to /usr/brlcad/bin
16:16.16mauryzyoI write ls -i
16:16.29mauryzyoit tells me that there are no files
16:16.32mauryzyonothing...
16:17.19``Erik:o
16:17.43mauryzyoI don't understand where the problem is
16:17.46``Eriksounds like maybe the pkg is broken? was it really a pkg, not just a dmg with a directory to drag?
16:17.53mauryzyoif I made mistakes during the installation process
16:18.08mauryzyoa pkg
16:18.20``Erikhrm, brlcad would be the guy to talk to about that
16:18.39``Erikif you lurk long enough, he'll look at irc again *shrgu*
16:20.48mauryzyoerik..
16:21.07mauryzyocould you give me the right link and I retry to reinstall it?
16:21.24``Erikright link? I always build mine from source...
16:21.47``Erikif you want to do that, http://prdownloads.sourceforge.net/brlcad/brlcad-7.8.2.tar.gz?download
16:22.17``Erikthen untar it, go into the dir, run "./configure && make && make install"
16:22.30``Erikthen go have a nice cup of coffee and read the morning paper, cuz it'll take a while
16:22.58mauryzyook Erik I download it
16:23.12mauryzyoand then please assist me during the installation
16:23.22mauryzyoI need this program absolutely
16:23.23mauryzyo:-))))
16:24.06``Erik<-- just gave you the q&d 'how to install', plus the source package has a file named INSTALL
16:25.29mauryzyook
16:25.42mauryzyobut it is one day that I try...
16:25.55mauryzyoI have downloaded it now
16:28.26mauryzyosorry but...
16:28.29mauryzyox11
16:28.40mauryzyois a windows server?
16:28.54mauryzyoDo I have to install it in my mac osx?
16:29.25``Erikyesh, the X windowing system, unix for graphics... if you have tiger (10.4), it should be on your install dvd
16:30.11mauryzyook
16:30.23mauryzyoI have seen that I already have this program
16:30.30mauryzyoin the Applications folder
16:30.37mauryzyoI never used if before
16:30.44mauryzyonow...
16:30.56mauryzyoI downloaded the file you gave to me
16:31.02mauryzyoI opened it
16:31.18mauryzyoand there is a folder brlcad-7.8.2
16:31.28mauryzyoI hope all is ok
16:31.40``Erikgo in there, and run "./configure"
16:32.14mauryzyook
16:32.17mauryzyowith x11?
16:32.28mauryzyoDo I open x11 before?
16:32.28``Erikeither an xterm or a Terminal.app
16:32.32``Erikit doesn't matter at this point
16:32.38mauryzyook
16:32.46``Erik<-- likes xterm more than Terminal.app :)
16:33.01mauryzyoI open the Terminal
16:33.16mauryzyoI go to the folder brlcad-7.8.2
16:33.28mauryzyoand I run
16:33.29mauryzyo./configure
16:33.38mauryzyoI write ./configure
16:34.15``Eriklots of text scroll, I hope
16:36.54mauryzyoI did
16:36.55mauryzyoconfigure: error: no acceptable C compiler found in $PATH
16:37.26``Erikooh, you need the developer kit installed, get it from your install dvd, sorry hehehe
16:38.37mauryzyowhat?
16:39.06``Erik"xcode"
16:39.12mauryzyoIt is too much difficult for me
16:39.17mauryzyoto install this program
16:41.54MaloeranThe package for OSX binaries out of the sourceforge files doesn't work? That's what you used, right?
16:43.09``Erikapparently brlcad/bin was empty, alexis... *shrug*
16:44.11MaloeranJust making sure he used the official package and not some other, but I don't suppose there are dozen package management systems on OSX as on Linux
16:45.01``Erikwell, there's a few big mechanisms on mac... the pkg system, the bundle drag&drop way, the 'installshield' and 'installit' third party apps... :/
16:46.49``Erikinstalling...
16:47.06``Erikhm
16:47.10``ErikI see a very full /usr/brlcad/bin
16:47.21``Erik<PROTECTED>
16:47.30``Erik/usr/brlcad/bin$ ls | wc -l
16:47.58``Erik/usr/brlcad$ du -s .
16:47.58``Erik176144  .
16:48.31``Erikyeah, works for me, the pkg is ok... *shrug* mebbe you need to rm -rf /usr/brlcad and try the pkg again?
16:50.48``Erikalexis: do I get to see pretty pictures on friday? :D
16:51.10MaloeranWon't be very pretty yet, but sure :)
16:51.44MaloeranIt's a lot more work than one could think, I'm writing this raytracing pipeline to handle dynamic geometry with multiple graphs already
16:51.56MaloeranNo point in doing anything less to see the code being thrown away later
16:52.34``Erikokie, coo'
16:53.22MaloeranI haven't really looked into this "convenience library" stuff, mm.c still needs fixing, plus I'll be reusing some code ( old libfrti ) for multiple demos
16:53.55MaloeranIf you are ever incredibly bored, setting an autoconf/automake/libtools framework for this stuff would be appreciated ;)
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19:06.55``Erikheh
19:07.33``Erikohyeah, btw, because you used make style behaviors instead of autoconf style behaviors, your program only compiles on linux...
19:07.37``Erik:D
19:14.50MaloeranFeel free to pinpoint problems more precisely, I don't have fbsd around at the moment
19:15.35ValarQIriX64: foo
20:39.18IriX64ValarQ: fo is Gods function :)
20:39.24IriX64foo too
20:40.55ValarQ:p)
20:41.41ValarQIriX64: lightened your desktop yet?
20:41.51IriX64ValarQ: which .g file is yours?
20:42.05IriX64and no i havent its still pretty heavy:)
20:42.14ValarQno .g file is mine
20:42.33IriX64push of a button it all goes away anyway :)
20:43.49ValarQhttp://arda.no-ip.org/fancydesktop.png
20:43.57ValarQmy new fancy desktop :)
20:45.50IriX64you're good.
20:46.03IriX64im not that advanced yet. :)
20:46.44IriX64XL?
20:47.01ValarQXL?
20:47.13IriX64forgot the name of that package.
20:47.22ValarQXGL?
20:47.23IriX64XGL?
20:47.27IriX64heh
20:47.28ValarQ:)
20:47.39``Erikmal: libdl is very linux.
20:47.39IriX64havent got that yet.
20:47.42ValarQXGL/Compiz to be more precise
20:47.52IriX64thankyou.
20:48.20IriX64does it cause you're knuckles to bleed?
20:48.29``Erikhrmmmm
20:48.30``Erikwith gnome?
20:49.04``Erikand I guess that's irssi, not bx?
20:49.05MaloeranErik, POSIX 1003.1-2003 describes dlclose(), dlerror(), dlopen(), and dlsym().
20:49.12MaloeranWhat's specific to Linux?
20:49.21``Erikmal: yes, and sane systems, since it's a POSIX set, put it in libc
20:49.49``Erikglibc used to have it in libc.so, too, but they broke it out
20:49.52ValarQIriX64: not yet
20:49.58MaloeranOh well, then it's just the automake stuff which needs fixing
20:52.21``Erikin configure.ac, use the search-libs to find the function, and set DL to whatever is returned, then AC_SUBST and add @DL@ when dl* is needed :)
20:53.19``Eriklibtool has some shtuff for that, too
20:53.42ValarQIriX64: http://arda.no-ip.org/brlcadshot.png
20:55.34clock_good ole chopper
20:56.47``ErikMi-28
20:57.05``Erikhttp://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mi-28
20:57.07``Erik:D
20:59.34IriX64transparent? how cool is that coolness?
21:00.45IriX64``Erik... one word gag me with a spoon :)
21:01.52IriX64XGL...good stuff ValarQ:?
21:02.13IriX64is source available?
21:05.28ValarQyes
21:05.46IriX64where? one i found is for suse.
21:06.26ValarQi use the portage overlay for gentoo
21:06.49IriX64all specific tho right?
21:07.00ValarQwhat?
21:07.39IriX64all specific to an os? is a platform independant version of the source available like brlcad?
21:08.52ValarQi guess it depends pretty hard on OpenGL and unix sockets (it's X after all)
21:09.01ValarQbut it should work on any system
21:09.17IriX64so whos code should i borrow:)
21:09.47ValarQi believe freedesktop got the cvs repo
21:10.10ValarQhttp://www.freedesktop.org/wiki/Software_2fXgl
21:10.50IriX64thwy have 5 components where's the beef:)
21:11.22ValarQit's gonna be pretty much work to set it up from source on your own...
21:12.31IriX64tell me about it. (sticky note applied to ValarQ's forehead...remind Irix64 of this in a month )  :)
21:14.02ValarQheh
21:16.59IriX64just so we're comparing apples with apples, gentoo=gnu64?
21:17.51IriX64or are we back in gnu32?
21:20.31IriX64btw you should rotate that helicoptor ValarQ.
Jeff Waugh - find it at freshmeat.net! Modified by Tim Riker to work with blootbot logs, split per channel, etc. irclog2html for #brlcad on 20060907

irclog2html for #brlcad on 20060907

01:19.55CIA-9BRL-CAD: 03lbutler * 10brlcad/ (11 files in 2 dirs): Doxygen updates
01:23.40CIA-9BRL-CAD: 03lbutler * 10brlcad/misc/ (Doxyfile doxygen_structure): Doxygen updates
01:34.25IriX64ahhh linux-gentoo, thanks for clarifying, haven't paid much attention to *nix os's lately.
01:35.41*** join/#brlcad IriX64_ (n=Who@bas3-sudbury98-1168051987.dsl.bell.ca)
01:38.12IriX64other than redhat linux 6.0 :)
03:31.21*** join/#brlcad Twingy (n=justin@c-69-250-236-111.hsd1.md.comcast.net)
03:31.36IriX64the forge man :)
03:32.17IriX64Twingy: why won't os/2 install in vmware server ;)
03:33.36IriX64That leftist (tm) build of gentoo is purely wonderful.
03:34.29IriX64netstat -q
03:34.34IriX64whup.
03:38.12IriX64refresh my memory. how do i burn this iso image to cd?
03:39.27``Erikdepends on teh os
03:39.43Twingyput da cd in your toaster
03:41.20IriX64toaster popped, still don't know and its xp pro svc pk 2.
03:42.24Maloeranmkisofs and cdrecord should do nicely on Gentoo or any other unix
03:42.54IriX64man those are unix apps.
03:43.25IriX64im going to install gentoo in vmware if i get an installation cd burned.
03:45.07MaloeranAh, so you don't have Gentoo up yet. Search for Nero if I remember correctly
03:45.19IriX64thankyou.
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09:27.52brlcadValarQ: neat desktop.. though seems like it'd be kinda hard to use like that  ;)
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14:20.47ValarQbrlcad: yes, thought it has some bright sides
14:22.50MaloeranI never quite understood the point of transparency in a GUI, mostly the text and interfaces are just harder to read
14:25.25archivistw
14:26.02archivistfor gif type images where a an image is round etc
14:27.08archivistoften used for icons on the background
14:27.17ValarQMaloeran: constant transparency like in my shots are mostly useless
14:27.50ValarQMaloeran: transparency of non-active windows might be a good idea thought
14:32.48ValarQ_might_*
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16:05.24MaloeranIt lives! I just actually rendered my first picture with the new raytracer code base, after a month without seeing anything
16:07.05Maloeranhttp://www.rayforce.net/yaayy.png  It sure is not impressive, but I'll meet that Friday milestone, Erik o.O
17:05.32dtidrowheh
17:07.26``Erik<PROTECTED>
17:07.39``Eriklook like... an m1a2 abrams mbt?
17:09.03MaloeranPfft, me use a cube? :)
17:09.59MaloeranThe m1a2 yes, mostly upside down. It's reaching a pathetic 1.3-2.0 million rays per second at the moment
17:10.06``Erikon?
17:10.25MaloeranAmd64 single core
17:13.23``Erikmhz?
17:13.29``Erikerm
17:13.31``Erikghz, sorry
17:13.31Maloeran2.2ghz
17:13.32``ErikI'm old
17:13.36MaloeranEhehe
17:13.43``Erikis it multithreaded yet?
17:14.17MaloeranIt is not, the preparation is very poor and the raytracing completely un-optimized
17:14.33MaloeranJust give me 2 months or so ;), it's 7 times slower than the prototype at the moment
17:15.00``ErikI think it's still 'satisfactory'
17:17.14MaloeranShould be satisfactory for the "Initial rendering capability" milestone, yes
17:21.54``Erikmwahahhaa
17:24.07MaloeranHow dare you make my code compile on freebsd! *sobs*
17:24.16``Erikheh
17:24.17``Erikand mac
17:25.05MaloeranRight. Actually, if you don't mind taking care of all the autoconf/libtools mess, I sure won't mind :)
17:25.53``Erikweeeee, segfault on mac
17:26.10MaloeranPromising. Can you pinpoint that for me?
17:26.33``ErikProgram received signal EXC_BAD_ACCESS, Could not access memory.
17:26.33``ErikReason: KERN_INVALID_ADDRESS at address: 0x3c300598
17:26.33``ErikrfAddTrianglef (v0=0x3c300590, v1=0x3c300590, v2=0x24300590, value=0x1) at ../../../RF/group.c:253
17:26.33``Erik253       memcpy( &rtri->pt[0], v0, 3*sizeof(rff) );
17:26.57``Erikprintf right before was: Model loaded, 426902016 triangles
17:27.12MaloeranOkay, this is not an ia32 Mac, right?
17:27.17``Erikno
17:27.19``Erikg5
17:27.21MaloeranThe data file's endianess is messing things up
17:27.23``Erikright endian
17:27.25MaloeranThe m1a2
17:27.44``Erikuhmmmm
17:28.08``ErikI think I have, um, X installed on the quad opteron... gimme a few, I'll go check it there
17:28.44Maloeran*nods* Feel free to report anything, I'll be away for a few minutes
17:35.39``Eriksweet, I broke the linux compile
17:56.41``Erikannnnddd, on leenewx... http://paste.lisp.org/display/25579
18:22.54MaloeranWeee. Okay, I'll look into this :)
18:26.52MaloeranLooking at the code, I sure don't see how it was working in the first place, pointer was unitialized.  anchor = ot.anchor;
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Jeff Waugh - find it at freshmeat.net! Modified by Tim Riker to work with blootbot logs, split per channel, etc. irclog2html for #brlcad on 20060908

irclog2html for #brlcad on 20060908

00:44.51*** join/#brlcad digitalfredy (n=digitalf@200.71.62.161)
02:11.52*** join/#brlcad IriX64 (n=Who@bas3-sudbury98-1168051727.dsl.bell.ca)
02:12.27IriX64will gentoo install on a vmware virtual machine?
02:15.54IriX64? :)
02:16.44MaloeranWhat about installing Gentoo for real? :)
02:17.03IriX64blows away my existing installation.
02:17.17MaloeranDoesn't seem a good idea to run an OS relying that much on compilation in an emulator
02:17.21MaloeranJust resize it
02:17.36IriX64?
02:17.57TwingyI use fbsd emulator for all my robotics dev work
02:18.03Twingyfbsd in parallels
02:18.10IriX64?
02:18.14Twingywith two displays
02:18.24Twingyfbsd running fullscreen on left, MacOS on right playing itunes
02:18.41IriX64freebsd?
02:18.47Twingyjah
02:19.31Twingyget a job
02:20.00MaloeranFreebsd is quite free, can't take too much disk space either
02:20.08IriX64jobs avois me like the plague :)
02:20.18IriX64avoid too.
02:20.22Twingyonce gcam is mature I might try my hand at some supplementary income
02:20.40IriX64graphics cam? :)
02:20.44MaloeranIt won't be open-source then?
02:20.44Twingygnu
02:20.48Twingyit will be
02:20.53IriX64heh
02:20.55MaloeranThen you'll sell tech support?
02:21.00Twingynope
02:21.06MaloeranVolountary donations?
02:21.17Twingythat always helps
02:21.23IriX64different project?
02:21.29IriX64= income?
02:21.36Twingystuff I build with it
02:21.46MaloeranAh, I see
02:21.56Twingyhopefully out of aluminum
02:22.23IriX64Twingy, ever hear od steel welding?
02:22.28IriX64of too.
02:22.48TwingyI weld steel when I need to
02:22.56IriX64you take the acetlyne bottle and replace it with hydrogen.
02:23.13IriX64use a steel rod instead of those brazinf rods.
02:23.21IriX64brazing too.
02:23.24Twingyfor what purpose?
02:23.42Twingyyou just like jumped off topic
02:23.43IriX64high temperature welds.
02:23.46Twingyok, great
02:23.50Twingynow back to aluminum
02:23.52Twingy:)
02:23.56IriX64heh all right.
02:24.05IriX64aluminum rods.
02:24.22Twingynext purchase will be a band saw for cleaning up my castings
02:24.36Twingybut not until my solar panels are installed
02:24.37IriX64grinder does a good job.
02:24.46Twingygrinder is not designed for that
02:25.00IriX64using appropriate attachments it is.
02:25.27Twingyok, you can pound a round peg through a square hole, but I prefer the round holes myself
02:25.38Twingywhich is why I will be getting a band saw
02:25.55IriX64wouldnt be a square peg or round hole anymore now would it.?
02:26.02Twingyno
02:26.09Twingybecause I'm implying it works
02:26.24IriX64im dense. act accordingly.
02:26.27Twingyit's just not appropriate
02:26.48TwingyI know you are, I'm trying to compensate
02:27.00Twingyand remain benevolent
02:27.05IriX64don't over compensate though. :)
02:27.27IriX64gotta see a man about a recurrring leak bbiab.
02:27.53Twingyyou should be giving yourself lobotomies
02:28.03Twingy*shouldn't
02:28.17Twingybut apparently you think otherwise
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11:16.33``Erikband saw? for flash? or for the pour channel?
11:44.33archivistally doesnt grind well as it fills the grinding wheel
11:45.27archivistI wear out a dremel a year
12:56.14``Erikyeah... but aluminum is very fileable
12:56.20``Erikand files can be cleaned with a wire brush
12:56.22``Erik*shrug*
12:56.57``Erikup around brass and harder, a grinding wheel is awesome, though
12:57.05archivisthehe depends on the copper content pure is sticky as hell
12:57.24``Erikthat'ts why I said brass, not copper
12:57.26``ErikO:-)
12:57.37archivistangle grinder heaven
12:57.52``Erikpart of me misses the days of working in a metal shop
12:58.03``Erikthen I remember how much I hate physical labor ;)
12:58.13archivistas a clockmaker I still get dirty
12:58.30``Erikcool... maker? mostly repair work on antiques?
12:59.06archivistmake parts for new and antque
12:59.32``Erikand I have absolutely no desire to wear a wristwatch or pocketwatch
12:59.34archivistlast job www/archivist.info/pendulum guess the metal
12:59.42``Eriktoo many people care too much about time
12:59.53``Erikforbidden
12:59.54``Erik403
13:00.02archivisthehe replace / with .
13:00.14``Erikhurrr
13:00.35archivistwww.archivist.info/pendulum
13:01.13``Erikhmmmmm, looks too hard to be platinum?
13:01.23archivistnot hard
13:01.37``Erikand the surface looks too shiney to be aluminum
13:01.46``Erikbut the old surface is too matte to be a steel
13:01.46archivistnever usually seen shiny
13:01.59``Erikif I spit on it, would it explod?
13:02.00``Erik:D
13:02.07archivistcast iron
13:02.12``Erikreally?
13:02.17``Erikthat's an awful clean piece of stock
13:02.35archivistyup continously cast
13:02.50``Erikfull size (and old, well abused) lathe, I see
13:03.19archivist1956 worn out
13:03.23``Erikthe bevel cut... was that ground and polished? or is that from the bit?
13:03.31``Erikcuz it's insanely smooth
13:04.02archivistturned 1 thou feed and then wet and dry then polich
13:04.23``Erikok, so it's been polished, not a straight bit cut :) hehehe
13:04.54``Erikand I seeeee.... an irc client, it looks like... and firefox... cooking? pastebin... O:-)
13:05.08``Erikbtw, mysql sucks, postgresql++
13:05.13``Erikimho
13:05.13MaloeranSo you cut this kind of stuff if your garage as well, like Justin? :) Building a pendulum?
13:05.26archivistits my day job
13:05.49``Erikall my experience was during a highschool "metal shop" class
13:05.50``Erikheh
13:06.04``Erikso  I got a good breadth, but not a lot of narrow experience
13:06.30``Erikjust 'nuff that I know when to pick what machine, and probably won't lose too many fingers, heh
13:06.52archivistits the boss here that machines his fingers not me
13:07.02``Erikwell
13:07.21``Erikbosses in general are incompetent in attempting the tasks their "subordinates" do
13:07.42archivistI had to take him to hospital after he gear cut his finger
13:07.54MaloeranOuch.
13:08.01``ErikI code for a living, my supervisor has a masters in CS, but couldn't code her way out of a wet paper sack
13:08.06``Erikjust a cut?
13:08.10archivist.8 module index finger
13:08.27``ErikI took a good chunk of one off with twinkies r/c plane, got an ambulance trip, they sewed it on, but it ain't quite right :/
13:08.48MaloeranErik, Wendy really has a master in CS?
13:09.01``ErikI think so
13:09.04``Erikheh
13:09.16MaloeranNow I really have no esteem left for the formal educational system
13:09.19``Erikdixie has a doctorate in cs... and doesn't know the difference between a programming language and a library
13:09.38``Erikmike, however, has a doctorate in cs, and is pretty damn brilliant
13:09.56MaloeranSurvice would like me to get a degree for some reason, possibly so they can ask more from the ARL
13:10.12``ErikBUT, in the "real world", it's more or less given that the more formal education you've had,t he more you know...
13:10.39``Erikif I were to dispute something dixie said, 95% of the 'real world' would tell me to sod off, because I just have a bs, not a phd
13:10.42``Erik*shrug*
13:11.02``Erikand people without a bs are only useful for flipping burgers, according to 95% of the industry
13:11.04``Erik:)
13:11.14archivistknowing how to use a library is better than a degree sometimes
13:11.24``Erik(it's just a hoop to jump through, but *shrug* if you wanna be heard...)
13:11.41MaloeranAw Erik :), I suppose I better inform Survice about these new career plans
13:12.08``Erikat least with undergrad degrees, you DO get a good breadth of information that focused self-education would completely fail at
13:12.44``ErikI thought I knew it all and was a superguru until I got to the upper level undergrad program ;0
13:13.56MaloeranUseful information, or perhaps just knowing by heart the O notation for all "standard" common algorithms?
13:14.18``Erikmeh, asymptotic notation is a minor player
13:14.40``Erikgrocking the theoretical, and being forced to use a wide range of languages from a wide range of paradigm on a wide range of tasks was interesting
13:15.14``ErikI still look up and reread some of the classic simple 'problems' to keep my mind semi-limber...
13:15.26``Erik<-- points at the halting problem in a safari tab :)
13:16.06``Erikand that's exactly why undergrad cs would benefit you.
13:16.08``Erikhttp://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Halting_problem
13:16.32MaloeranOh, that
13:16.52MaloeranSafari encountered such a situation? :) That's unexpected
13:16.58``Erikno, hah
13:17.01``Erikthe webpage is open in safari
13:17.40``Erikfundamental computer science... the theoretical stuff... gets me off :D
13:17.58``Erikdfa's, turing machines, p/np...
13:18.04``Erikunderappreciated.
13:18.16``Erik<-- points at his brainfuck interpreter and compiler...
13:18.25``Erikthat's where academic optimization research should happen
13:18.26``Eriknot c
13:19.08MaloeranIt's often possible when faced with a though, slow or impratical problem... to just change the problem itself
13:19.19``Erikerm...
13:19.20``Erikdur
13:19.26``Erikthat's a core premise of p/np
13:19.50MaloeranFor having read so many papers on ray-tracing, it's something a lot of people seem to forget
13:20.14``Erikjust cuz 99.999% of people misapply the taught computer sciences does not mean that formal cs is useless, dude
13:20.34Maloeran*nods* Right ;)
13:20.50``Erikseriously, you're smart enough to grok what is said and benefit from it, opposed to the normal 'copy what thte prof says and regurgitate to pass the class' bs
13:22.12MaloeranReally? I wouldn't have guessed that
13:22.14``Erikbut I'm old enough that I pick my battles against beaurocracy carefully :)
13:22.28archivistcos sometimes the prof is at the level of "if you cant do it, teach it" so you need to thoink around what the buggers are on about
13:22.40``Erikheh, indeed
13:23.03``Erikwith my undergrad, there was only one prof that knew the subject.. the rest were regurgitation machines
13:23.18``Erikthere was on omfg computer scientist, one omfg software engineer, and a pack of fucktards
13:23.25``Erikteaching the cirriculum
13:23.41MaloeranYou may as well rely on books then
13:23.49``Erikfortunately, the cs was my advisor, and I talked to him a lot, so I got a LOT more out of school than just the courses
13:23.56``Erikheh
13:24.04``Erikwho will tell you the right book?
13:24.13archivistallways red multiple books on a subject for the same reasons
13:24.17archivistread
13:24.30``ErikI have books on my shelf I would have never seen if it weren't for well informed people suggesting them *shrug*
13:24.48``Eriklike, in opengl, the average do-it-yourselfer would probably go look at nehe
13:24.59``Erikif no one tells them "NO! Bad fucktard! no nehe! go read the redbook!"
13:25.01``Erik...
13:25.53MaloeranSure, sure. I'm just not convinced the educational benefits are worth the time investment, but I'll ponder about that later
13:26.10``Erikalso; getting to sit down with a math teacher and get the REAL scoop on quaternions in a sit tdown session was... invaluable.
13:26.45archivistI have started a few courses but ended up not finishing as the day job got in the way
13:26.48``Erikthe educational benefits are not limited to lectures *shrug*
13:27.06``Erikdon't discount the atmosphere and availability of expertise
13:27.30``Erikdespite the mountains of bullshit heaped out of the institution
13:27.30``Erik:D
13:27.40archivistopen university maths was hard for me but the 1 to 1 tutorials got me through
13:27.47MaloeranI see.. :)
13:28.43MaloeranThere are _way_ too many papers without any content worth reading out there, it's horrible
13:29.29``Erikyeah, most of those papers are the uni saying "you must publish this year" and the person going "oh, uhhhh, ok, lemme crap in a word processor for a week, shove it out the door, and go back to what I was doing"
13:30.18archivistthen a crap reviewer doesnt read and check properly
13:30.21``Erikheh, I did one lame publication... and just straight copied most of it into another multi-person paper... *shrug*
13:30.57``Erikif you're punished for not producing, but not punished for producing crap... save your time for fun stuff, shove crap out the door
13:31.31MaloeranExactly. Most papers coming out of private companies and so on appear equally worthless, it's not limited to the educational system
13:31.48``Erikhm
13:31.48MaloeranI'm really amazed by this need, this urge to publish even when one doesn't have anything to say
13:32.04``Erikit's a condition of pointy haired management, I believe
13:32.14``Eriknot the people writing the papers
13:32.22MaloeranMost likely so, yes
13:32.26dtidrowyep
13:32.52``Erikof the, um, five publications I have out or in queue for this org... on my own, I wouldn't have called any of them publishable.
13:33.08``Erikmy old stuff is far more useful, heh
13:33.53``Erikbut if I don't have publications, I get graded down in my annual review
13:34.26MaloeranThe "new" developments from Siggraph in the field of raytracing that Lee presented were already out there, present in dozen papers pratically copying each other
13:34.53MaloeranSeriously? Now that is sad
13:34.55``Erikheh
13:35.03``Eriklook over the last 5 yrs of siggraph
13:35.12``Erikevery year, it's the same damn stuff
13:35.17``Erikwith minor tweaks
13:35.20MaloeranExactly
13:35.46``Erikbut I enjoyed siggraph a lot... getting to talk to people... the papers are just fluff, talking to people is where it gets cool
13:35.46MaloeranAnd apparently, we are going to go over the same old stuff on September 18-20
13:35.58dtidrowwhat conference is then?
13:36.08``Erikieee rt06
13:36.21``Erikhttp://www.sci.utah.edu/RT06/index.html
13:36.47``Erikfuck
13:36.51MaloeranFrankly, I would rather just keep coding than go, but...
13:36.53MaloeranHum?
13:36.58``ErikI need to do my poster, it was accepted and I haven't really started it, heh
13:37.38``Erikohyeah, I showed the output of your program to some people and they liked it... fyi
13:38.06``Erik510k p/s on a dual 2.0 p4-xeon
13:38.07MaloeranThe current slow and crude pixel dump or the prototype?
13:38.12``Erikthe pixel dump
13:38.17MaloeranGah! Don't show that :)
13:38.19``ErikI hit it with pix-png -a
13:38.21``Erikheh
13:38.24``Erikdude
13:38.28``Erikit's visible output
13:38.31MaloeranShow that : http://www.rayforce.net/lightdemo-ms.avi
13:38.35``Erikthey were psyched
13:39.01MaloeranEh well, as long as you don't say much about the current level of performance of that thing :)
13:39.19``ErikI mentioned it, and noted that you had not started optimizing it yet
13:39.24``Erikyou're ahead of the game, dude, it's all good
13:39.45``ErikI mean, I'm running renders at 20k p/s on that machine
13:39.55``Erik510k is definitely an improvement
13:40.01MaloeranWas it Lee and/or Wendy, or other unspecified people?
13:40.54``Erikheh, both the named people
13:41.01``ErikI showed it to lee, he showed it to wendy
13:43.30MaloeranAhead of the game by one day I suppose :), I needed visible output for today
13:44.06``ErikI saw a pixdump, that's visible output *shrug* if anyone asks, I'm gonna say we met that milestone early
13:44.31``Eriknow an SDL interactive quack type thingie would be awesome, but it's fluff
13:45.09MaloeranI really could use 2 weeks to complete the model preparation, it's terribly crude
13:45.47MaloeranEhehe
13:46.19``Erikum, you have a week estimate for regression suite, do you really think that'd take more than a day?
13:46.28``Erikand another week for api review
13:46.30``Erik... hurrrr
13:46.48``Erikand then 3 weeks for ray bundles, which you probably already have, or are close to
13:46.49MaloeranThe regression suite, that's testing the raytracing for accuracy?
13:46.49``Erik...
13:47.18dtidrowheh - padding, padding, padding  ;-)
13:47.19``Erikum, accuracy, performance, functionality
13:47.19MaloeranRight right, it's all good ; that initial rendering milestone was the tricky one
13:47.23``Erikjust a nightly script to compile it, run it, annotate a file with some info
13:48.32dtidrowin lightdemo-ms.avi - did you notice that the tank is actually the mirror image of the real thing?
13:48.39``ErikI'd actually recommend two scripts, one very simple skeleton that checks out the repo fresh in like /usr/tmp/rayforce-`date +%Y%m%d%H%M`, runs another script, then rm -rf's
13:49.02MaloeranIs it, dtidrow? My coordinate system might be... mirrored
13:49.04``Erikand the other script to autogen, configure, build, and run the programs
13:49.37``Erikhah, it is mirrored
13:49.58MaloeranOops :}
13:50.04dtidrowI wondered why it looked wrong at first  :-)
13:50.12dtidrows/wrong/odd/
13:51.38MaloeranThe new code doesn't produce a mirrored output though. Curious, still
13:52.51``Erikaaanyways, we need to get some good representative models with better use policies... anything released with brlcad is grand to use, and I need to track down 'owners' for a couple models to get them approved for public release... one being a toyota "hilux" pickup truck
13:53.53MaloeranRight. Or I'll have a nice renaissance frigate soon as I said
13:54.36``Erikwell, as much as I'd love to get my hands on that model, pay attention to the license...
13:57.03MaloeranFor the frigate? That won't be a problem
13:58.40``Erikif'n ya buy it and put i t in the cvs repo, there should probably be an accompanying license or something, to make it clear where it came from, who holds the copyright, and what the license agreement is
13:59.12``Eriktotal cya. :D
13:59.43MaloeranYes, we'll have to make it clear. The author is a hobbist who usually just distributes his stuff freely
13:59.47MaloeranHave fun with that poster :)
14:00.03``Erikcya == "cover your ass"
14:00.15MaloeranOhh :)
14:00.24dtidrow``Erik: I used to work at TACOM years ago, so I'm rather familiar with tanks  :-)
14:00.47dtidrowbbl - got a squacky baby to deal with...
14:01.12``Eriknifty, I'm rdecomm, arl/slad/bs
14:09.29dtidrow``Erik: so yu work up at Aberdeen with lee and that crowd?
14:10.13``Erik'fraid so
14:11.09``ErikI'm sorta kinda in the flux of going back to lee's team at the moment... everyone but the branch chief acknowleged that I changed teams back to acst like six months ago, heh
14:11.31dtidrowheh
14:12.13``Erikthe limbo was... somewhat pleasant :) but now I'm back to workin' *sigh*
14:12.38dtidrowlol
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14:59.02archivistthinking about my pendulum, I want 3d cad to calc the CG at different temperatures when filled with mercury (so needs to know about contained liquids)
14:59.57archivistI had to draw multiple versions in solidworks to get around it
15:05.57``Erikthat'd be a fluid dynamics problem to solve the shape of the fluid...
15:06.11``Erikonce you have the shape and densities, the cg is fairly easy
15:06.59``Erik<-- been itching to do fem/cfd type code in brlcad, but has no time just yet
15:09.08archivistbut the shape of the container is changing with temp so "needs" to be part of 3d system (little need as far as I can see in the real world) as compensation is done in software these days
15:10.27archivistjust that we deal with people building clocks in the old fashioned way
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21:03.31MaloeranThis is weird. I never noticed before that the m1 model has "polygons" where the 3 points are colinear, that causes some nasty artefacts in the new code
21:11.11dtidrow_workall three colinear?
21:11.44dtidrow_workoh, duh - thinking of something else
21:12.03dtidrow_workdegenerate tris to make longer strips, perhaps?
21:13.06MaloeranPerhaps so, I suppose I'll have to strip them out for raytracing
21:55.19``Erikwhy?
21:58.39MaloeranMy intersection test can't handle triangles with an area of 0.0, and logically, no rays is ever going to hit them anyway
22:20.34``Erikah, div by zero error?
22:24.46MaloeranMore like the preparation of such triangles, prior to raytracing, outputting a few NaNs
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Jeff Waugh - find it at freshmeat.net! Modified by Tim Riker to work with blootbot logs, split per channel, etc. irclog2html for #brlcad on 20060909

irclog2html for #brlcad on 20060909

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00:33.59IriX64ah, I see the brass is all here :)
00:35.18IriX64ValarQ: that gentoo iso is too big for my disks, only support 700meg here.
00:37.11IriX64I can unpack the iso i suppose but what the heck do i do without the installer?
00:41.34``Erikheh
00:41.45``Erikare you intending to install native, or vm?
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00:49.55IriX64vm preferably.
00:50.44IriX64either way have to be able to boot the iso.
00:53.09MaloeranBoot iso from network? Store CD on the raw partition of an old disk and boot it?
00:53.27MaloeranI'm not too sure about the second, but theorically...
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05:00.27Marcelo_Bassalguem fala portugues?
05:00.53Marcelo_Basshummm
05:02.51Marcelo_Basssomebody know to install the brl-cad?
08:08.27Twingyjohn travolta could speak portugues in some movie
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13:11.53``ErikO.O
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Jeff Waugh - find it at freshmeat.net! Modified by Tim Riker to work with blootbot logs, split per channel, etc. irclog2html for #brlcad on 20060910

irclog2html for #brlcad on 20060910

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22:30.29MaloeranErik, what's the proper way to make this autoconf stuff to target a certain processor for optimisation, -mtune?
22:31.30MaloeranPreferably, also optionally replacing -g with -s -fomit-frame-pointer, etc. ...
Jeff Waugh - find it at freshmeat.net! Modified by Tim Riker to work with blootbot logs, split per channel, etc. irclog2html for #brlcad on 20060911

irclog2html for #brlcad on 20060911

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01:48.09IriX64would a geometry browser pane be too much to add do you think?
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07:31.33CIA-9BRL-CAD: 03d_rossberg * 10brlcad/src/libbn/libbn.dsp: Removed number.c
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13:15.24brlcadIriX64: no, not really -- was actually already added in the initial implementation -- it's just disabled/hidden and unused
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Jeff Waugh - find it at freshmeat.net! Modified by Tim Riker to work with blootbot logs, split per channel, etc. irclog2html for #brlcad on 20060912

irclog2html for #brlcad on 20060912

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11:29.39CIA-9BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/configure.ac: so we apparently can't actually call any opengl function (at least on macosx) without a valid context or it will cause a bus error, so instead just link against some useful symbols.
11:32.07CIA-9BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/librtserver/Makefile.am: er, reverse that order. if we're building tcl, then we have tcl_nil -- otherwise link against TCL
11:47.15CIA-9BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/configure.ac: linking against a system tkstub library may require linking against the tclstub library as well, at least that seems to be the case on mac os x's default-provided static tkstub archive
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19:30.29CIA-9BRL-CAD: 03mjgillich * 10brlcad/src/conv/g-xxx.c: Modified g-xxx.c to db_walk_tree verses db_fun_tree
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Jeff Waugh - find it at freshmeat.net! Modified by Tim Riker to work with blootbot logs, split per channel, etc. irclog2html for #brlcad on 20060913

irclog2html for #brlcad on 20060913

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09:52.12ValarQIriX64: still to much clutter :P
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Jeff Waugh - find it at freshmeat.net! Modified by Tim Riker to work with blootbot logs, split per channel, etc. irclog2html for #brlcad on 20060914

irclog2html for #brlcad on 20060914

00:00.04IriX64how do i use Photon mapping light model properly?
00:01.56IriX64i'm particularly confused byt visualize irradiance cache.
00:02.02IriX64-t
00:07.48``Erikyou probably don't want to visualize that
00:29.47IriX64probably? it came out black :)
00:35.48IriX64Global Photons 16384 irradiance rays 100 angular Tol 60 scale indirect 1.0 and use irradiance hpersampling cache comes out better but still dark :)
00:36.45IriX64photon mapping is simply a lighting model which i use to display a model.
00:36.57IriX64solid model.
00:41.44IriX64nice of you to offer 7 different lighting models :)
00:45.19``Erikhrm, did you define a light source when you tried rendering with photon mapping?
00:46.09``ErikARL-TR-3608  is Justin's report on photon mapping, if you can find it... I d'no how much it applies to using the gui thingy in mged, though :)
00:48.41IriX64photon mapping i'm familiar with is a model and the source.
00:54.18IriX64hah enough of that for now.
00:54.36IriX64must revisit jumpdrive.
01:37.20``ErikI'd imagine that you must define at least one region with the shader of "light" for photon mapping to work... as... you need a source...
02:36.30IriX64Comes out right.
02:37.01IriX64time to play with windows archer.
03:18.09MaloeranBoth the guest house and the Monaco hotel are full for that Utah conference, I seriously need to find something before getting there :}
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10:36.04peterbrettHey folks, I'm having a bit of trouble getting my environment set up to run brlcad...
10:36.20clock_peterbrett: what's the problem?
10:36.40peterbrettmged says it can't find data resources -- but it's looking in [/home/ptbb2/brlcad//share/brlcad/7.8.3] and that directory exists and contains data...
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16:48.48IriX64ValarQ: i showed you mine...
16:56.51ValarQIriX64: what?
17:10.25IriX64heh we were comparing desktops.
18:11.13ValarQyeah, you showed me a couple (never the 8 rightmost pixels thought)
20:22.28``Erik...
20:23.41ValarQhello mr Erik
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21:38.55``Erik<-- scratches his brain
21:46.24Maloeranbrlcad, any idea where you'll be staying? Monacco and Guest house are full, don't bother trying
21:46.39brlcadnot yet
21:47.39brlcadi'll figure that bit out tomorrow morning I think
21:48.00MaloeranI'll be at A there : http://maps.google.com/maps?f=q&hl=en&sll=40.73282,-111.814127&sspn=0.054633,0.107975&q=best+western&ie=UTF8&om=1&z=14&ll=40.756295,-111.86657&spn=0.054614,0.107975
21:48.44brlcadhmm.. best western, eh..
21:49.30MaloeranAbout the only thing reasonably close I could find, just so you don't search too long either, if you want
21:50.09brlcadnot a huge fan of BW but thanks for the tip
21:50.33MaloeranOh? I don't have a clue what kind of place this is :)
21:50.47brlcadi can't really imagine this conference having more than a couple hundred people at best, probably way less
21:51.39brlcadyeah, best westerns are sort of like shopping at walmart .. just your basic no-frills hotel for most of them
21:53.19MaloeranI see, I'm not too picky on comfort personally. They got a bed and internet, so... :)
21:54.26brlcadi'm not picky on the comfort, but I sure do like it when they have a gym, pool, and hot tub somewhere :)
21:54.44brlcadinternet and bed are pretty much a baseline requirement
21:55.42``Erikuh
21:55.48``Erikyou expect internet access at a best western?
21:55.50``ErikBWAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHA
21:55.51``Erik:)
21:56.39``Erik(unless they've changed recently)
21:56.44brlcadooh, there's a marriott right there
21:57.01``Eriksearched for bus lines yet, mal?
21:57.03MaloeranThey claimed to have internet on their website anyway
21:57.12MaloeranI'm pondering bringing a bicycle or not
21:57.40``Erikinternet in the room? or in a "business center"?
21:58.23MaloeranNo clue.  Features : Hot Tub  Free Breakfast  Dry Cleaning & Laundry  Fitness Center/Health Club  Pool  Room Service  High Speed Internet
21:58.54MaloeranAnyway, I have traveled through France on a bicycle and occasionally sleeping without a bed, I'll survive :)
21:58.57brlcadthat's rather unusual for a best western
22:00.17brlcadMaloeran: how do you fly with  your bike?
22:00.25brlcadyou have a case?
22:00.35MaloeranI pack it in a cardboard box, the ones they sell bicycles in
22:00.35``Erikwow, someone gave them a whole two stars
22:00.43brlcadheh
22:01.27MaloeranYou are so picky :). And to think that I was almost put off by the "Deluxe Quality Room, Oversized Room", trying to find something more nromal
22:01.30Maloerannormal, even
22:02.49``Eriksorry, I'm used to travelling with business accomodations :) sheratons, etc...
22:03.03brlcadi don't mind roughing it myself, heck I wouldn't mind pitching a tent -- but when it pertains to business, I'll take the accommodations any day
22:03.09MaloeranInternet seems to be hotel amenity and not for guest rooms. They provide an alarm clock though!
22:03.14``Erikno motel8's and holiday inns
22:03.24``Erikuh, I don't want to hear about you pitching a tend, dude
22:03.39brlcadheh
22:03.41``Erik(now if I were going on my own dime, yeah, I'd be going a bit cheaper)
22:03.43MaloeranA tent and a bicycle is all you need to travel :)
22:03.49``ErikI mean, i've slept in cars before **shrug*
22:07.38MaloeranWell, I suppose I could cancel the reservation if it's as bad as you suggest. Internet doesn't seem to be a guest room feature
22:07.50MaloeranDo they refund or it's just cancelled? :)
22:10.55brlcaddepends on the hotel and their cancellation policy
22:11.05``Erikum, depends on their policy and how early you cancel... like I said earlier, when going to a conference; get a room as soon as possible and ask about their cancellation policy
22:11.23brlcadi wouldn't cancel it until you have something else, and it really may be fine for you
22:11.37brlcadi was spoiled on business travel *years* ago
22:11.49``Erikwell, it'll be a room... I mean, perfectly suitable
22:12.09``Erikand if you don't like the specific one you get, you can always ask for another room *shrug*
22:12.15brlcadheh
22:12.44brlcadlike choosing between mcdonalds and wendys
22:12.51``Erik*nod*
22:12.52MaloeranThe apparent lack of internet in guest rooms is puzzling
22:13.45brlcadif you're under the same reqs, you just have to keep an eye out on per diem rates and what not
22:13.45``Erikinternet in room is more of an business and better class thing :/
22:14.01Maloeran"Cancel Policy:   Cancel before 4PM hotel time on Sep 16, 2006 to avoid a charge" Okay, no problem there
22:14.28``Erikmake sure you have board lined up before cancelling, though... if you can't find anything else and it gets taken when you're looking, you'll be screwed..
22:15.02MaloeranSure. I'm tempted to trust brlcad's judgement and wisdom in these matters
22:15.53MaloeranBesides, I suspect he might rent a car which, if you don't mind, could be appreciated by a passenger if possible
22:17.15brlcadthat'll depend on how far away the hotel I get is, so won't know till tomorrow
22:18.09brlcadif it's within a 15-20 min drive or so, I'd probably just stick to cabs and public transportation
22:18.19brlcadif it's farther, I'll get a car
22:20.15MaloeranRight.
22:21.17MaloeranI always relied on bicycle and don't have a driving license, something fairly rare in the united states it seems
22:21.35brlcadin general, yeah
22:21.53brlcadunless you live in a city almost exclusively
22:30.30``Eriklike, downtown city, not burbland
22:30.45``Erikand it depends on the city, heh...
22:32.10brlcadyeah, and what someone considers a "city" :)  pretty much limited to big cities really that have prevalent public transportation
22:32.39MaloeranIndeed, and Montreal's subway is quite nice
22:33.04``Eriklots of "big" cities have almost no public transportation,a nd some small ones do...
22:33.45``Erikeast coast cities tend to be laid out in a fashion far more viable for not having a car... midwest, southern, and most western ones are not friendly in that regard...
22:34.05brlcadwhen I lived in panama city, I would have never needed a car for most trips really.. a $3 cab ride would get you just about *anywhere* and like 40% of the cars on the road were cabs, not to mention the 25 cent buses that went everywhere
22:34.18``Erikjust make sure it's a real cab? heh
22:34.57brlcadnah, a lot of them were not "real" .. just some shmoe that slapped a sticker on his car and would charge you a couple bucks to take you somewhere
22:34.59MaloeranI'm guessing that depends of the local culture Erik ; if I'm not mistaken, many americans see a car as much more than a mean of transportation
22:35.11MaloeranSomething like a social icon to reflect your personality, maybe
22:35.16``Erikyeah
22:35.28``Erikthus all the effort to dress them up
22:35.33``Erikor try to buy a fancy one
22:35.33``Erikheh
22:35.34``Erik:D
22:35.39brlcadstill totally depends on where you live and where you need to go
22:35.57MaloeranWhich is of course quite unreasonable, right Erik? :)
22:36.01``Erik23" spinner rims and hydrolics are not exactly utilitarian
22:36.13brlcadpeople living exclusively in the cities rarely see them as icons imho
22:36.15``Erikoh, I bought my car for more than general transportation
22:36.23``ErikI wanted the "performance" aspect
22:36.36``Erikdepends on which part of which city, dude
22:36.48``Eriklook for, say
22:36.50brlcadthe thing is that 90% of the population doesn't live in the cities, they live in suburbia or on the edges or in the middle of nowhere
22:36.51``Erikspinner rims in the ghetto.
22:37.39MaloeranIt was peculiar really, SUVs are rare in Montreal, they were all over the place in Belcamp/Edgewood
22:39.22``Erikit's actually a fairly 'green' vehicle... 33mph...
22:39.26``Erikmpg, rather
22:41.11brlcadit's also not really a useful comparison, major city versus some township on the far outskirts of a major city
22:41.35Maloeran33 miles per gallon = 14.0297423 kilometers per liter   You know, Google really impresses me on that one
22:41.46brlcadthere are too many suv's in the u.s. for certain, but I'd suspect you'll find a similar trend on the outskirts of .ca cities too
22:41.55``Erikoddly enough... townships in the sticks are more walkable than many downtown or suburban areas
22:42.21``ErikI'm told that if you get away from the cities or border in canuckia, big duallie crew cab trucks are very common
22:42.28brlcadyay for metrics, http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_metropolitan_area
22:42.36MaloeranTrue brlcad, but it's also a matter of culture. European cars of 2 places are very popular in the province of Quebec, and that's the only place in all of North America where they sell any ; there's no market elsewhere
22:42.44brlcadahh, didn't know that b'more was separated from dc recently
22:43.05``Erikhuh? of two places? O.o
22:43.32brlcadheh, most european cars fail basic standards tests
22:44.07``Erikthe small ones fail safety tests, and many fail emissions tests... the us is more anal than canuckia...
22:44.15brlcadlittle trucks with 12 inch rims that peak out at 55mph, heh
22:44.18``Eriklike, eurospec m3's were sent to ca, but couldn't be sent to the us :/
22:44.27MaloeranYes, I don't know if these cars really are meant for the highways
22:46.41``Erik(oddly enough, europe has more stringent front collision requirements... but less with side and rear impact, go figure.... (45mph vs our 35mph))
22:47.36brlcadhm
22:47.48brlcadneither of those really help me when I'm doing triple digits on I95
22:47.58``Erikhahaha, true
22:48.33``Erik160kph is a bit brisk :)
22:49.51MaloeranDefinitely not an energy efficient speed :), on top of being illegal and a few other details
22:50.04``Erikum, depends on where
22:50.09brlcadhttp://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Baltimore-Washington_Metropolitan_Area  hmm 8M
22:50.29``Erikmany roads in the world have no top speed limit, including a few in the US
22:51.01``Erikcolorado, I think, doesn't have daytime upper speed limits on some roads?
Jeff Waugh - find it at freshmeat.net! Modified by Tim Riker to work with blootbot logs, split per channel, etc. irclog2html for #brlcad on 20060915

irclog2html for #brlcad on 20060915

00:44.14*** join/#brlcad DTRemenak (n=DTRemena@adsl-68-126-0-210.dsl.irvnca.pacbell.net)
03:48.59MaloeranThat was sad, meeting a man of ~50y obsessed with chess in a cafe, carrying books filled with notes and knowing openings and styles in depth. I feel bad for beating him 3 times in a row
03:54.44IriX64nytol :)
04:17.49CIA-9BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/ (4 files in 2 dirs): do as the comment suggests and move the htester.c test application that exercises the host to network floating point functions from libbn to libbu
04:23.02CIA-9BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/libbu/Makefile.am: enable compilation of htester, not installed though
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15:54.01brlcadMaloeran: there are rooms available at the University Guest House
15:54.17brlcadyou have to ask for the "Ray Tracing Conference"
15:55.26MaloeranAh!... That's not exactly the answer I got from their online form
15:55.30MaloeranYou called?
16:02.06MaloeranI'm guessing the rooms are specifically reserved for the Ray-tracing conference, so one must ask for it specifically by phone
16:26.30brlcadmost hotels aren't set up well for on-line registration, especially for business travel and conferences or most any special accommodations
16:42.59MaloeranSo I realize. Thanks
16:43.13``Erikheh
16:44.11MaloeranErik, http://mcarp.earthstorm.com/reel/rotter-lowe/index.php?showimage=rotter-lowe-056.jpg&screenwidth=1600
16:44.35MaloeranLooks like the exterior will be completed soon
16:45.07brlcadwoot, all registered and taken care of now
16:46.11``Erikswank
16:48.05``Erikhttp://www.sci.utah.edu/RT06/venue.html#bars  w00t
16:48.52brlcadalmost picked the monaco because of that :)
16:49.01brlcadwhere you staying at ``Erik ?
16:49.07``Erikguest house
16:49.09``Eriklee is, too
16:50.54``Erik<-- shoulda given you our flight info, heh
16:53.09MaloeranIt's going to be a 14 hours flight with 2 stops for me, fun :)
16:53.59MaloeranI'll arrive in the night of 16 to 17 too, I don't feel like arriving at 3h in the morning after 14 hours of travel to sleep 3 hours before a conference
16:55.51``Erikheh, my 5 hr nonstop flight looks postiively thrilling compared to that :)
16:58.25MaloeranPHL->SLC? Lucky
17:03.03``Erikbwi->slc, actually
17:03.27MaloeranI am impressed
17:03.54MaloeranMontreal -> Philadelphia -> Las Vegas -> Salt Lake City
17:04.02``Erikheh
17:04.16``Erik<-- stepped back and let an expert figure out his travel *shrug*
17:04.18MaloeranA 5 hours wait at Las Vegas, I might have time to look around
17:04.52``Eriksecurity in us airports is a long painful process...
17:06.02MaloeranI know that. I don't think I told you that they took my bicycle out of its box last time, put it back all wrong ( the cardbord box had non-planar surfaces ), and covered it with tape "Inspected by the department of homeland security"
17:06.27MaloeranThere's no damage though
17:11.42``Erik"ask for a goldfish" O.o
17:12.13``Erikthat's right, you flew out of bwi... heh
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17:12.27``ErikI'm not sure how easy it is to leave the airport and get back in during a layover :/
17:12.51MaloeranI didn't fly out of bwi on that day :)
17:12.56``Erikmany many years ago, it was a simple matter, people left to airport all the time to sightsee or visit friends :/
17:13.08``Erikoh? philly?
17:13.15MaloeranThe plane was delayed, I was going to miss the next one, so they sent me to Dulles but my luggage went to Philadelphia without me
17:13.25``Erikheh
17:13.26MaloeranThen my cab had battery problems on the way...
17:13.31``Eriksweet
17:13.34``ErikI'd not heard this
17:13.49MaloeranI shared the details in #siggraph the following day, not a pleasant experience :)
17:14.11MaloeranI arrived in Montreal 16 hours later without my luggage
17:14.55Maloeran16 hours after I arrived 5 hours early at the airport anyway
17:23.03brlcadarriving on the 16th?  that'd be cool, considered it
17:23.17brlcadbut why not 17th?  no flights?
17:23.40MaloeranThe only way I could arrive on the 17th would be at 3h in the morning of the 18th
17:24.07MaloeranAll the flight options took over 12 hours for me
17:24.26brlcadhmmm
17:27.37brlcadwow, so it is.. not many flights from ymq or yul
17:29.07brlcadone nice thing about the area here, bwi is a major route for most and if that doesn't work there's dulles and reagan airports in DC
17:30.36MaloeranOh? I seem to always have to go through phl to reach bwi from Montreal
17:34.01CIA-9BRL-CAD: 03jlowenz * 10brlcad/src/librt/nmg_misc.c: calloc needed to provide initialization of unused/unset bot parameters (i.e. normals)
17:36.28CIA-9BRL-CAD: 03jlowenz * 10brlcad/src/conv/g-nmg.c: copy the color table from input to output, so colors render properly in converted file
18:41.05``Erikyeah, canada sucks
18:41.08``Erik"america jr" :D
18:42.16``Eriksyrup :)
18:42.35MaloeranI reserved at the guest house from the 16th to 18th, I'll have to find something else for the following days... or hopefully someone will cancel to free a room
18:42.53``Erikare you on the waiting list for 19/20 ?
18:43.26MaloeranHum, no?
18:43.34MaloeranAt least I don't think so
18:45.34``Erikperhaps tomorrow you should ask
18:45.40``Erikyou're flying out tonight?
18:47.12MaloeranTomorrow morning
18:47.45MaloeranArriving in the night from 16 to 17, at 3 am
18:51.41Maloeran75 people for the conference? Now that's low
18:52.25brlcadroughly what I would have expected for this being first year and all
18:53.00brlcadmost of the acm symposiums are not much bigger really, siggraph is the main "enormous" one
18:53.35brlcadalso being the general distinction between the symposiums and conferences, the prior being smaller
18:57.03``Erikah ha, a calendar on acm.org
18:57.04``Erik*read*
18:57.22``Erikoh, nice... 9/18/06-9/20/05 ...
18:58.09MaloeranSomething tells me it's going to be difficult to attend that one
18:58.42``Erikah, they call their good confs "pldi" and "popl"
19:12.38MaloeranI'm still dreaming of tackling raytracing hardware with whoever will be interested, Prasad sure seemed to be
19:40.24MaloeranQuestion : Why would CVS list about every file of a project as "Modified files" when commiting, while many definitely haven't been touched at all?
19:40.37MaloeranDoes it rely on the time stamp?
19:41.50brlcadif they're marked as M then they are somehow different, likely whitespace might have changed
19:42.19brlcadcvs diff one of the files
19:43.00brlcadif cvs diff -b -B shows nothing, then something is changing the whitespace in the file
19:43.03MaloeranDoesn't print anything on stdout for these files
19:44.23MaloeranI copied the whole dir on laptop and back to work at a cafe, it's the only unusual event I can think of
19:44.42``Erikheh, the timestamps would throw a M
19:45.07MaloeranAny way to prevent this? No big deal, but that isn't too pretty in the logs
19:45.38brlcadhm, i haven't seen timestamps cause that kind of problem in years, though all my machines are timesynced these days too
19:45.57``Erikif you're sure everything is all good, "cvs -z3 update -ACPdr" might do it?
19:46.13``Erikyou also don't go around arbitrarily "touch"ing files, right, sean? ;)
19:46.21``Erikoops
19:46.24``Erikcvs -z3 update -ACPdR
19:46.30brlcadactually I do sometimes, to affect how it builds
19:46.40brlcadand that still doesn't screw with cvsage
19:46.44MaloeranWhat would that do? Just making sure that won't remove hours of work or anything.. :)
19:46.45``Erikcvs backed files?
19:47.08``Erikit'll force a total checkout, and create a lot of (hopefully identical) .# files
19:47.28MaloeranI copied the directory by scp so time stamps are of course all off
19:47.31MaloeranNo way to rely on diff and just ignore time stamps?
19:47.39``Erikhrmmm
19:47.48``ErikI just touched a file to fuck the timestamp and tried an update,  no M on it
19:47.52``Erikguess my guess was wrong :/
19:48.05``Erikcvs diff it, dude *shrug* :)
19:48.35brlcaddoes one of the systems use a different EOL?
19:48.44MaloeranNo, the files are identical
19:48.53brlcadnot the file, the system
19:49.05MaloeranBoth Linux
19:49.10MaloeranEven files of 0 bytes are identified as modified
19:49.26brlcadwhat does cvs status say?
19:49.32brlcadand what version of cvs are you using?
19:49.46Maloeran1.12.11
19:50.20brlcadcvs status somefile
19:50.28brlcaddoes it say "locally modified"?
19:50.34Maloerancvs status is eating some bandwidth, working on the binary models surely
19:50.48brlcadanother possibility is that your CVS dirs are horked somehow
19:51.06MaloeranStatus: Up-to-date
19:51.12brlcadlike if you copied files from one system to another, but didn't copy the corresponding CVS dirs
19:51.32brlcadheh, that's not M then
19:51.34MaloeranI really copied everything, scp -r
19:51.36brlcadcvs update again
19:51.41Maloerancvs commit  disagrees :)
19:51.52brlcadyou have to update before a commit
19:52.27brlcadit'll say M on an update if you receive a modification as well
19:52.43brlcadso you do it twice and it'll say M the first time but not the second
19:53.19MaloeranRight, I didn't update as I'm the only one working on this
19:55.06MaloeranThanks Shawn and Erik
19:55.50MaloeranOops :)
19:55.58brlcadspells the right one wrong and the wrong one right ;)
19:58.45``Erikwow, I'm retarded
19:59.18brlcadand that's the power of positive thinking
19:59.59``Erikmissing break; in a switch, heh
20:00.04``Erikhurrrrrrr *drool*
20:02.32MaloeranEheh
20:23.20MaloeranYou use int80? :) That's unexpected
20:41.04``Erikwell
20:41.17``ErikI'm writing a compiler for a turing tarpit language to do some theory crap with
20:41.24``Erikand I have the frontend all buttoned up
20:41.43``Erikand I have a modular optimizer... and a backend that produces C code
20:41.55``Eriknow I'm working on one that produces ia32 code (fbsd)
20:41.59``Erikwell
20:42.06``Erikia32 at&t asm, for as(1)
20:42.13``Erikthen I'll do one that generates machine code, I suppose
20:42.35MaloeranOh, just rely on as, assembly encoding is a mess
20:42.47``Erikum, I know, I've done it before
20:43.03``Erikwrote (most of) an x86 assembler before, too
20:44.14MaloeranAnd I did abundant self-modifying code and procedurally generated opcodes in my younger days
20:44.22``Erik(just cuz I don't think asm is good for app programming doesn't mean I don't know how to use it or never use it..)
20:44.26``Erikhehehe, I did those on the c64's
20:44.27``Erikfun stuff
20:45.00Maloeran:) I spent months working on the Warcraft 2 executable and data files in order to tweak the game
20:45.51``Erikooh, license violations, ... :D
20:46.20MaloeranOh hum, oops? :) That sure was long ago
20:47.14``Erikin the name of education
22:19.23*** join/#brlcad cadguy (n=cadguy@c-69-250-146-28.hsd1.md.comcast.net)
23:52.36``Erikbah, my label table is not quite right
Jeff Waugh - find it at freshmeat.net! Modified by Tim Riker to work with blootbot logs, split per channel, etc. irclog2html for #brlcad on 20060916

irclog2html for #brlcad on 20060916

00:37.07IriX64A A'  :)
00:37.49IriX64forget how to switch them though and they say a different part of the anatomy is the first to go.:)
00:38.46IriX64still got the book, programming for the Z80 :)
00:45.16IriX64so lets see, byte 0 , byte 1 ... byte 512 thats sector 1 then immediatly followed by sector 2 ... to 1024 sectors, then and so on to 256 megs and ive got a portable floppy disk commonly called a jump drive. right?
00:45.42IriX64left out track but it's implied.
00:46.07IriX64fat is appropriate.
00:46.20IriX64fat32 can be supported.
00:46.30IriX64somebody check me.
01:06.26IriX64where do i find #devicedriverwriters :)
01:16.58MaloeranEfnet's #kernel for Linux driver development, I'm sure there's something on freenode too
01:18.11brlcadsame channel
01:27.10brlcadheh
01:27.40Twingysean, I'm gonna make a bike that generates energy back into the grid
01:28.09Twingyit'll generate like 2 cents an hour :}
01:29.11brlcadheh, would make for a nice business venture for health clubs
01:29.18Twingyhehe
01:30.03Twingyheh
01:30.15Twingyonly $10k in equipment
01:30.25MaloeranI'll only need 250 hours at 200 watt to risk exceeding that 5$ gift limit the next time I drop by
01:30.34Twingyhaha
01:31.09TwingyI think I will need to make it an energy capture machine
01:31.26Twingybecause at < 175W it doesn't do anything
01:31.34Twingyrerun
01:36.14brlcader, don't think this is a rerun -- at least i haven't seen it
01:36.44brlcadand it just referred to the new episode from two weeks about about takara getting blown up
01:37.35Twingyah
01:37.41Twingywell, I'll watch it in 2 hours
01:37.47Twingycomes on at 11 again
01:42.16brlcadthe allucian alliance thanks you
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02:04.59CIA-9BRL-CAD: 03lbutler * 10brlcad/src/librt/ (150 files): Doxygen updates
02:24.54IriX64you picked a fyne tyme to leave me lucille ;)
02:26.51IriX64sigh , I can hear the flapping of wings, but the song eludes me. :)
03:11.18MaloeranErik, question : would it be of any value for ray-tracing nodes to be able to join and depart the work network at any time?
03:12.33``ErikI think so
03:13.11MaloeranOkay, that's what I initially had in mind. Still planning chunks of distributed preparation and synchronisation
03:17.49MaloeranTo translate fully built graphs from pointers back into indices for newly joined nodes is rather akward
05:33.42CIA-9BRL-CAD: 03lbutler * 10brlcad/misc/doxygen_structure: Doxygen updates for librt
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08:00.47CIA-9BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/misc/Makefile.defs: rework the noprod logic for issue encountered on netbsd on vax where the shell is invoking with a different precedence on &&/||, so be more explicit
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14:59.13``Eriksee ya in utah, dude
15:07.12brlcadwooh hooo!  got benchmark working under vax finally
15:07.33brlcadstupid libm bug
15:07.45brlcadyeah, see ya Maloeran .. happy trails
15:31.38``Eriknifty
15:31.45``Erikand how many vgr's is a vgr?
15:47.29brlcadeh, don't know that yet.. still running the benchmark :)
15:48.08brlcadit's on 3 of 6 and been going for about an hour
15:48.59brlcadit's down to just a few hundred rays per sec though, so it should be interesting
15:49.57brlcadthis isn't an optimized build yet either, so technically it could be even slower than 1 vgr if the originals were optimized (which I don't know if they were or not)
15:50.45brlcadthough it certainly seems to feel like it's in the 0 to 10 vgr range
15:52.21brlcadspent *hours* last night debugging trying to figure out why it was crashing, stack would hose after calling atan2() and gdb would infinite loop up on certain prints of floats
15:53.15brlcadthen spent hours relinking with a static libm just to make testing a little easier, and the problem was solved -- had to hack up libbn a little for vax floating point, but it's all good now
16:22.36*** join/#brlcad clock_ (i=clock@84-72-60-33.dclient.hispeed.ch)
17:48.03``ErikO.o
17:53.47brlcadSummary:
17:53.47brlcadAbs  unknown 1198.23    432.80  371.64  346.31  639.24  642.15  605.06  Fri Sep 15 09:06:11 EDT 2006
17:53.50brlcad*vgr unknown 8.74       6.45    6.62    6.49    9.04    .04     6.23
17:54.35brlcadnot to shabby.. i think it is throttled, just perhaps throttled to a faster vax than vgr used to be (which I can probably tweak via simh settings)
17:56.34brlcadalso exposes a problem in the m35 reference image I think.. it still had the usual 74 off by 1 (though also 3 off by many)
17:57.31brlcadhave to check the logs but i'm guessing someone uploaded a new ref image, keeping the same performance log, causing the continued off-by-1 numbers everywhere
18:26.02``Erik<-- not so good at reading vgr accounts, mostly looks for the stuff in the -=-=-=
18:30.24``Erikmaybe you should run a really old version (like, the version our vgr's are based off of) to tune the vm, changes in the code may have improved efficiency...
18:30.24``Erik:)
18:43.27brlcadvgr is the last number on the vgr line, 6.23
18:43.44brlcadit's an average of the individual runs, which preceed it
18:43.57brlcadline before it is the same, but with rtfm counts
18:44.45brlcadi was thinking the same regarding improvements, that could very well explain the variations too if there were, say optimizations to the sphere shot routine
18:45.00brlcadchecking to see if kermit can pull up some old binaries even
18:45.17brlcadthough i really dont' want to install 4.3 bsd..
18:51.44``Erikum, compile old source on it?
18:51.56``Erikmaybe hack the simh config to make it like a 1ghz vax for the compile? hehehe
18:52.50brlcadstill trying to find out if simh is clock synced
18:52.58brlcador even settable
19:20.24``Erikit's written in C... you have the source code... it's all settable. :D
19:28.45brlcadheh
19:28.51brlcadactually i've gotten some more info
19:29.27brlcadit's simulating a microvax II (1985), not a vax 11/780 (1979)
19:29.43brlcadi'm having trouble booting up the 11/780 simulator, but giving it a go
19:30.25brlcadsomeone who seems to be in the know in classiccmp seems to think it's not throttled, just happens to run about that slow
19:41.20``Erikeck
19:41.55``Erikwhat's cpu load when it's chunking?
19:42.00brlcadnot sure i believe him though -- it's too close
19:42.10brlcadit's full cpu, single threaded
19:42.26``Erikhuh, if it's burning a full core, maybe it just IS that slow :/
19:42.38brlcadit's full cpu even if it's idle
19:42.50``Erikbusywait :/
19:43.30brlcadheh, http://www.openbsd.org/images/vax.jpg
19:43.51``Erikhahahaa
19:49.07``Erikamusing, I look for a pic of an 11/780 and it takes me to ftp.arl.mil
19:50.52IriX64thats a hell of a hot vax. :)
19:53.18IriX64simh eh? lets try.
19:58.15*** join/#brlcad IriX64_ (n=IriX64@bas3-sudbury98-1168056792.dsl.bell.ca)
19:58.44IriX64_was asking, what are you benchmarking the simulated machine with brlcad?
20:02.37IriX64:)
Jeff Waugh - find it at freshmeat.net! Modified by Tim Riker to work with blootbot logs, split per channel, etc. irclog2html for #brlcad on 20060917

irclog2html for #brlcad on 20060917

02:05.36*** join/#brlcad PrezKennedy (n=Apathy@c-68-55-177-2.hsd1.md.comcast.net)
02:30.36brlcadpretty incredible
02:31.46dtidrowwhy is that?
02:32.47brlcadthe announcement about lilo
02:33.10brlcadworked with him quite a bit over the years
02:33.19dtidrowah
02:33.42dtidrowkinda reminds me of when Mike passed away
02:33.56brlcadextensive discussions about the pdpc, cloaks, the network, etc
02:34.28brlcadyeah, kinda if only because of the unexpected nature
02:34.40dtidrowinded
02:35.13brlcadthough not in the least bit the same personalities, talent, etc
02:35.47brlcadstill a sad occurance
02:36.54brlcadi think Freenode's done more in support of open source than anything else, fostering development and communications
02:37.25PrezKennedyim using my mod points to put the smackdown on some jackasses commenting about it on slashdot
02:38.11PrezKennedyim so apathetic about them... im like... eh ive got mod points... now i have to find something to mod
03:30.24MaloeranAmazing, they got both power outlets and wireless access at the Las Vegas airport
03:31.24MaloeranA fairly strange place too.
03:34.08MaloeranWhat happened to lilo? googling
03:36.52MaloeranWoah! Okay, I just noticed the messages about lilo
03:42.08Twingysilly people not wearing their helmets
03:44.55MaloeranIt really depends where you ride... but I can't imagine Huston, Texas to be very friendly to bicycles
03:47.13TwingyI am really leaning toward an electric bike
03:47.27Twingywill be more than a year before I can afford though
03:48.21MaloeranOh? Well, you could begin with a standard bicycle
03:48.53MaloeranEven if it's just to replace your runs at first, I think it might be more pleasant
03:49.30MaloeranAnd you'll be able to join Lee on his saturday morning rides :}
03:55.05Twingywhat do you think the probability of me choosing to spend my time riding with Lee on saturday mornings is :)
03:57.00MaloeranWho knows, you might fall in love with bicycle riding once you try and reject all your previous hobbies :)
03:58.23Twingy...and I might also discover how to put a rocket in space with a table spoon of sugar
03:58.55dtidrowwell, with the right mix of potassium perchlorate.....  ;-)
03:59.19Twingybtw, I used to ride my bike 7 miles back and forth to work for a couple years
04:00.33MaloeranOh, good
04:01.42Twingy15 - 17 before I got a suzuki
04:02.50MaloeranThe battery on my laptop seems quite poor. It might be related to the acpi governor apparently not working so the frequency remains at 1.8ghz
04:03.14MaloeranAny suggestion on some kind of battery I could carry in my back pack, for hours of use? :) Even if it must weight 10kg
04:04.26MaloeranAt the moment, I can get a whole 75 minutes or so
04:04.30TwingyCOTS or custom?
04:05.05Twingywhat's the voltage of your battery
04:05.23MaloeranCOTS?
04:05.28Twingycommercial off the shelf
04:05.37Maloeran14400mV
04:05.44Maloeran2000mAh design capacity
04:05.46Twingy14.4V
04:05.51Twingy2Ah
04:05.56Twingywhat about the DC input
04:06.01Twingy(charger)
04:06.03MaloeranAlready down to 1853mAh maximum after two full discharges
04:06.24Twingywhat's the specs on the charger
04:06.34Twingy18V @ 3A?
04:06.54Maloeran19V @ 3.4A
04:06.59Twingyk
04:07.58MaloeranA big heavy battery in the back pack to last 10 hours would be great
04:08.03Twingyhttp://www.batteryspace.com/index.asp?PageAction=VIEWPROD&ProdID=986
04:08.18Twingythat'll double your juice
04:09.17Twingy~1.25kg
04:09.28Twingy1.5kg
04:09.43MaloeranInteresting
04:09.53Twingygood for 1,000 charges
04:10.10MaloeranIs there anything massive for hours of use without worry?
04:10.10Twingyand cheap
04:10.15Twingyum
04:10.18Twingylet me figure something ou
04:10.50MaloeranSomething to plug the laptop in as if it were a power outlet, I am guessing
04:14.10TwingyI could easily make you anything
04:14.20Twingybut nothing I can see off the shelf
04:14.45MaloeranRight, I see. That could be an interesting little project
04:15.08Twingyif you want, paypal me 110% the cost of the materials and shipping and its yours
04:15.17MaloeranTurn my back pack into one massive laptop battery that will prevent me of getting through any airport security
04:15.29Twingynah
04:16.17dtidrowMaloeran: "Is there anything massive for hours of use without worry?" - probably a small generator would be the best bet
04:16.52MaloeranGenerating the electricity from what? I don't see anything else than batteries being practical...
04:18.37Twingyyou could go fuel cell, but you'll spend a small fortune
04:18.49Twingycause the hydrogen generator and compressor aint cheap
04:19.15MaloeranFuel cells are forbidden on airplanes now
04:19.40TwingyI so go with that kit I just pasted
04:19.42Twingy*say
04:19.44Twingy$50
04:19.50Twingyand you double your life
04:19.50MaloeranYes, it's surely an improvement
04:20.02Twingythat's what I would get
04:20.18Maloeran*nods* Thanks for the tip
04:20.39Twingyorder two if you want more
04:20.56Twingyyou can always wire them in parallel if you have the adapters and heat shrink
04:21.05MaloeranOr just swap once in a while
04:21.11Twingyyep
04:21.21TwingyI mean I can build you one that'll keep it powered for 10 hours
04:21.26Twingybut it'll cost you like $250
04:21.34Twingyand weigh like 10kg
04:21.37Twingyerr 5k
04:21.39Twingy5kg
04:21.48MaloeranIf it goes through airports, that's not too bad
04:22.11Twingybut why not just switch a battery every 90 minutes
04:22.17MaloeranRight.
04:22.22Twingysurely it's not that much of an interruption
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04:22.29TwingyI get up and stretch more often than that
04:23.04Twingythere's always a hand crank that charges a battery
04:23.10MaloeranArgh! *sobs* I don't see how the noise of slot machines is not driving anyone crazy, I'm almost tempted to put up the volume of my Brahms
04:23.18dtidrowor solar cells
04:23.29Twingysolar is not practical
04:23.33TwingyI always bring head phones
04:23.39brlcadheh
04:23.45brlcadMaloeran: in the airport now?
04:23.50dtidrowmore than a hand crank
04:23.56MaloeranYes, waiting 5 hours at Las Vegas
04:24.12brlcadyeesh
04:24.19brlcadhave fun
04:24.26Twingygo play some slots :}
04:24.30brlcadheh
04:24.37IriX64*don't lose :)
04:24.43Twingysee if you can write some code to beat it
04:24.57MaloeranI'm statistically losing, you'll never see me put a quarter in those things :)
04:25.00brlcador find a hammer to beat it
04:25.22MaloeranThe only such game I'll ever play is Poker Texas Hold'em with my AI to.. pretty much decide everything
04:25.26Twingyanything is better than this mostly dead 9.6V
04:25.34IriX64if you don't play you win :)
04:25.52Twingyif you don't play you don't get free meal comps
04:26.11IriX64free?
04:26.12brlcadI'm statistically dying, but you don't see me not breathing from time to time ;)
04:27.02dtidrowhttp://www.aquaticeco.com/index.cfm/fuseaction/product.detail/iid/12728/cid/3399
04:27.12dtidrowonly 50lb  ;-)
04:27.42Maloeran<brlcad> I'm statistically dying, but you don't see me not breathing from time to time ;)
04:27.49MaloeranOops
04:28.07MaloeranTrying to copy/paste urls with that a mousepad, not a pleasant task
04:28.19brlcaddtidrow: that's not a bad price either
04:28.52brlcadMaloeran: well, i think you got the paste part down at least ;)
04:29.12dtidrowbrlcad: indeed
04:29.14MaloeranIt's curious, it seems to "unlick" after 1 second which gives little time to select anything properly
04:30.01dtidrowbrlcad: and only slightly heavier than that alienware 'laptop' I carted around siggraph this year  ;-)
04:30.02brlcadi hate it when things unlick
04:30.57MaloeranWhen are you arriving, Sean, and Erik and Lee if you know?
04:31.24dtidrowyou guys all going to a conference?
04:31.33*** join/#brlcad IriX64_ (n=IriX64@bas3-sudbury98-1168054869.dsl.bell.ca)
04:32.00MaloeranSome of us are, yes
04:32.23dtidrowwhat's the conference?
04:32.52MaloeranSome ray-tracing thing in Salt Lake City for 3 days
04:33.20dtidrowah, that one - I remember you guys talking about it last month
04:33.27dtidrowhave fun  :-)
04:33.57Twingyray-tracing, hah, that'll never catch on
04:34.05brlcadMaloeran: I arrive mid-day
04:34.20brlcaddtidrow: http://www.sci.utah.edu/RT06/index.html
04:34.47dtidrowyeah, I looked at it last time you posted the link  :-)
04:34.47MaloeranNice, better choice than my 2 a.m. local, or 4 am for my biological clock
04:35.23brlcadi'm supposed to wake up in 4 hours for my flight, flying west is always .. a trip
04:36.36MaloeranNeat
04:36.43``Erikheh
04:37.07``Erikthe rooms have mini-fridges
04:37.26MaloeranWhen do you arrive, Erik?
04:37.35``Eriklike 5pm mst
04:37.37IriX64nice page... you people must be excited about it.
04:37.59``Eriksharing transportation with lee
04:38.05MaloeranNot excited at all, no :), I would rather have stayed home to code
04:38.23``ErikI might try to get him to stop by a package shop on the way
04:38.40IriX64Malorean: duty calls thing I assume or "told" to go?
04:38.46dtidrowgotta go check on the baby and get some sleep - 'nite all...
04:38.59IriX64err spelt it wrong.
04:39.08MaloeranTechnically, I could refuse as a consultant I imagine, that didn't seem very polite though
04:39.20IriX64hah true.
04:40.02Twingyhrm
04:40.10TwingyI want this $110 sliding table for my drill press :|
04:40.19MaloeranOkay, having a walk elsewhere before the slot machine noise destroys what remains of my sanity, see you later or tomorrow
04:40.31IriX64ciao
04:40.36Twingyyou should record some of that :)
04:40.40Twingyyou can use it for your alarm clock
04:40.52MaloeranAhaha :)
04:42.31Twingyand a 6" vice
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04:44.06Twingyand a small swivel vise
04:49.54IriX64a swise :)
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19:13.08MaloeranIt was not even music, it was a random sequence of notes every time someone pressed some button, and there were 8-12 overlapping sources of such noise
20:08.42*** join/#brlcad PrezKennedy (n=Apathy@c-68-55-177-2.hsd1.md.comcast.net)
20:09.26PrezKennedyheres a great question i got from a friend "who still uses IRC?"
20:10.28MaloeranNo living being, we are the wandering souls of former geeks
20:12.48PrezKennedydoes this mean im dead?
20:14.45MaloeranIt depends, some of us are also artifical intelligences stuck on pursuing our task of providing social interactions for our lost masters forever
21:11.27MaloeranIs anyone at Salt Lake city yet? :) My room number is 239 if you want to meet today
23:20.23*** join/#brlcad LLSLouie (n=Louie@rc-190.blueridge.net)
23:27.54MaloeranThat's a hilly ride, many mountains and canyons in the way, but I trust your path-finding algorithms can overcome such obstacles
23:57.44Twingyindeed
23:58.18TwingyI need some stuff from digikey
Jeff Waugh - find it at freshmeat.net! Modified by Tim Riker to work with blootbot logs, split per channel, etc. irclog2html for #brlcad on 20060918

irclog2html for #brlcad on 20060918

00:07.06MaloeranI think what I dislike most in a completely new environment is finding where to get good food and how to get there, without a bicycle
00:17.28Twingyorder a pizza
00:26.45MaloeranOr hopefully, they might eventually arrive to dine somewhere together
00:27.46MaloeranThere they are!
01:07.48MaloeranSaw them arriving but no contact yet. Oh well, food time
02:56.39*** join/#brlcad digitalfredy (n=digitalf@200.71.62.161)
03:37.58MaloeranAh there you are :)
03:39.26CIA-9BRL-CAD: 03lbutler * 10brlcad/include/forms.h: We no longer use forms
03:40.15MaloeranEh, Lee is back at work
03:42.44MaloeranErik, where's your comics.php page again?
04:33.13Twingydesigning a cheap 'black box' to provide the appropriate voltage and current to the xantrex gt2.5 is rather challenging
04:42.30*** part/#brlcad LLSLouie (n=Louie@rc-190.blueridge.net)
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05:24.47CIA-9BRL-CAD: 03lbutler * 10brlcad/include/ (70 files): Doxygen updates
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09:37.04CIA-9BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/include/Makefile.am: forms.h was removed, apparently unused
09:39.50CIA-9BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/sh/ (footer.sh header.sh): automatically detect a slew of script types by looking at the first line of the file -- if the /bin/* is recognizable, then the file doesn't need a suffix after all.
09:40.15CIA-9BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/README: case consistency
09:43.57CIA-9BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/archer/archer: file name is just archer, not archer.sh
09:46.55brlcadoop, sry Maloeran .. didn't bother hopping back on until now, in 109
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12:51.23``Erikmal: math.missouristate.edu/~erik/comics/comic.php
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23:26.10MaloeranIt sure feels weird to apparently be the only one using something else than kdtrees, bhv and grids at that conference
23:33.00``Erikthat's why you'll be presenting at the next one ;)
23:36.27MaloeranOw, I'm not too comfortable with that :). I'm curious, someone had mentionned precalculated triangles that are faster but less suitable for dynamic geometry
23:37.05MaloeranMy ray-triangle test obviously is based on a precalculated form, so maybe it is known after all
23:38.58``Erikprobably **shrug8
23:55.07brlcada quick search through acm, ieee, and jgt would likely tell you that pretty quickly I'd imagine
23:56.43brlcadstill, even if it was tried, I doubt it was anytime recently and probably not using all the other current techniques of coherency, simd parallelism, etc
Jeff Waugh - find it at freshmeat.net! Modified by Tim Riker to work with blootbot logs, split per channel, etc. irclog2html for #brlcad on 20060919

irclog2html for #brlcad on 20060919

00:01.41MaloeranRight, it at least doesn't seen very popular these days. We probably should sit down and go over these techniques soon enough...
00:02.00Maloerandoesn't seem, rather
00:18.40PrezKennedybrrrr cold day in hell today
00:18.53PrezKennedygiving someone programming lessons for FREE
02:46.48*** join/#brlcad digitalfredy (n=digitalf@200.71.62.161)
03:17.07MaloeranAhah. Might be old news for some, but China's peacekeeping forces in Afghanistan are of one policeman since 2004
03:22.08``Erikyargh, mateys, shiver me timbers
03:23.05MaloeranI'm tempted to rather blame the beer, you sure drank a lot...
03:23.27``Erikheh
03:23.59``Erikit contributed, but not the root cause
03:25.40MaloeranYes perhaps so, you could try lighter food sometimes too, salads can be quite good
03:25.42DTRemenakthere is a (short) border between afghanistan and china
03:25.50MaloeranEh well, one policeman, I think that's fairly symbolic
03:25.57DTRemenakwhy not have a policeman sit on it? :)
03:27.08MaloeranFeeling good enough to have a look at RF/graph.c, Erik? :)
03:27.20``Eriksure
03:27.24``Erikactually, I'm feelign dandy now
03:27.39``ErikI took a racehorse leak and felt MUCH better, heh, lack of abdominal pressure.
03:27.57MaloeranDefinitely too much beer :), this stuff takes volume
03:28.46``Erikok, my checkout is old, I don't have that file...
03:28.50``Eriktrying to update...
03:29.22``Erikrebuilding
03:29.32``Eriklee was wondering if we should group and do a walkthrough this evening
03:29.49MaloeranOh, would be fine with me
03:30.31``Erikhe also noted that he would like a chance to read through, before, however *shrug*
03:31.03MaloeranI feel like I have started working on this stuff two whole years ago, and I never shared anything on it besides some early details with Justin
03:32.11``Erik"graphTraceDualIn()" I presume?
03:32.19MaloeranSure that will do
03:34.40``Erikermmmmm, whoa, wait, I was way off on names, heh
03:34.46``Erikit's jakko that did the series of articles
03:34.48``Erikmy bad
03:36.06``Erikhttp://www.flipcode.com/articles/portals_issue01.shtml
03:36.48``Erikhttp://www.devmaster.net/articles/graphics_alg/  section 3.4
03:38.16``Erikhavoc, shit, that's the gtk/gnome/metacity dude, heh, hurrrr
03:41.08MaloeranIt's a bit different in the worlds of rasterization and ray-tracing still
03:44.20``Erik*nod*
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04:16.33MaloeranI guess we'll rather do a walkthrough tomorrow or the next day
04:18.17CIA-9BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/doc/README.VAX: add an initial README for VAX given a compile does seem to still be possible via simh. provide the details on what has to be done.
04:18.31CIA-9BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/doc/Makefile.am: add README.VAX
04:19.27CIA-9BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/doc/README.AIX: add initial details about how much of a pain it is to compiled with the IBM Visual Age compiler on AIX, but that it is possible.
04:20.25CIA-9BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/doc/README.BSD: refer to README.VAX for getting BSD running on the VAX platform, mention that BRL-CAD is in the FreeBSD ports system.
04:21.14CIA-9BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/doc/ (README.Linux README.MacOSX README.Solaris README.Windows): add title header
04:29.24CIA-9BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/libbu/.cvsignore: ignore the new noinst htester
05:04.33Twingyoops, too late
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06:24.34Twingydone!
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17:29.48CIA-9BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/ (BUGS TODO): speling
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17:52.00IriX64driver turned out better than i hoped :)
17:53.55IriX64fat32 works... yay.
17:55.23IriX64haha meantime brlcad compiles away in cygwin, sweet.
17:56.29IriX64ValarQ: you think gentoo is nice? you should see XP+ :)
18:00.45ValarQwhats XP+ ?
18:06.51IriX64*my windows xp professional :)
18:08.38IriX6460 gig partition limit? get real.
18:09.16IriX64partition too.
18:10.43ValarQi got a 500GB partition
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18:10.59ValarQ3 250GB disks :)
18:11.04IriX64mine is all one disk.
18:11.19IriX64err that should be 750 then.
18:11.27ValarQoh, wait, 200GB disks 400GB total in this machine
18:12.11ValarQsata with raid5 :)
18:12.15IriX64ermf. math wiz :)
18:12.41IriX64brb gotta let the dog out.
18:18.14IriX64back
18:18.21IriX64where were we?
18:18.37IriX64comparing shiny toys :)
18:19.01IriX64mines a maxtor py200 ValarQ whats yours?
18:22.08ValarQMaxtor 6L200M0
18:22.36IriX64very recent model right?
18:23.07IriX64have a laugh do a /ver on me. :)
18:23.42IriX64freshly compiled and perl works.
18:23.56ValarQcygwin :/
18:24.05IriX64yes funny eh?
18:24.24ValarQnah, mostly tragic
18:24.34IriX64i call it unix high on windows. :)
18:24.58IriX64tragic? you fel sorry for me ?:)
18:25.04IriX64feel too.
18:25.30IriX64ValarQ: It runs brlcad.
18:26.03IriX64errr compiles and runs it.
18:26.53IriX64GNU is underrated.
18:29.04IriX646.0 however installed.
18:31.15IriX64got warp4 installed on it now but for some reason it's slow as molasses.
18:33.18IriX64well gotta warm up photoshop again ;)
18:33.25IriX64see you soon.
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Jeff Waugh - find it at freshmeat.net! Modified by Tim Riker to work with blootbot logs, split per channel, etc. irclog2html for #brlcad on 20060920

irclog2html for #brlcad on 20060920

04:09.54brlcadhmm, that was
04:10.11brlcada bit slowly
04:10.23brlcadpresented for my taste
04:10.31brlcadarrr
04:26.38MaloeranYes, the guy didn't seem very fast
04:26.57MaloeranBut he actually picked my curiosity. As far as I can see, you can not have continuity with bezier triangles
04:29.25MaloeranUnless of course the two triangles have the same size exactly, which is... not very practical
04:30.26MaloeranI need to look over my curved facets again, it has been like an year since I wrote that and got attracted by more shiny problems
04:47.32brlcadit's an interesting problem, but seems like a rather limited utility domain
04:48.14MaloeranNot if the continuity is preserved for any mesh of triangles, if it's flexible and fast
04:48.17brlcadi mean perhaps if it were ubiquitous and implemented in hardware, esposed by opengl 4.0 or something, etc
04:48.24MaloeranThen you save a whole lot of memory to represent, let's say, an apple
04:49.27brlcadi mean topologically and representation wise, it doesn't buy you much over a nurbs
04:49.39brlcadother than the potential to evaluate lower order
04:50.00MaloeranOh, but nurbs are horribly costly to intersect
04:50.11brlcadthat's what I mean
04:50.18MaloeranThe point is to have some very simple curved facets, as simple as they can be, which are very fast to intersect
04:50.21brlcadit's lower order, so considerably faster
04:51.39MaloeranYes... but typical nurbs are still rather expensive, even low order ones
04:52.13MaloeranMy idea is rather simple, I think we'll go over that tomorrow afternoon
04:52.33brlcadif you can't go from implicit or nurbs to these bezier triangles or whatever you want to call them, faithfully..
04:53.15MaloeranI'm thinking CSG -> curved facets could be really nice
04:53.52Maloeranor high order nurbs -> curved facets
04:54.04MaloeranI don't believe much in transforming triangles into curved facets
04:54.18brlcadi wasn't disputing that nurbs are expensive, I was saying that topologically and representation wise, it doesn't buy you much other than that evaluation diff
04:54.30MaloeranRight
04:55.39brlcadi'm sure there's probably some tradeoff difference there as well depending on how many curvies you'd need to faithfully represent the equivalent patch/implicit
04:56.30brlcadcurvies, I like that
04:56.34MaloeranQuite true. What I'm thinking is that we could reach better accuracy, performance and memory use with such curved facets rather than triangles
04:56.46MaloeranFor some surfaces anyway
04:56.53brlcadyeah, that would be nice
04:57.10brlcadthough I'm curious about a couple of the papers tomorrow regarding fast nurbs evaluation
04:57.29MaloeranI briefly shared some theory with Lee and Erik last month, but apparently, I'm not supposed to work on this stuff before all the other requirements are met
04:57.48brlcadyou can work on whatever you want
04:57.51brlcadjust not on the clock :)
04:57.53MaloeranYes, let's hope it's better than what's presently on the internet
04:58.06MaloeranOh, true :)
04:59.30brlcad"not supposed to work on XXX" sometimes also just means don't talk about XXX while working too ;)
05:08.57Maloeran*nods* I'm getting the idea :)
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Jeff Waugh - find it at freshmeat.net! Modified by Tim Riker to work with blootbot logs, split per channel, etc. irclog2html for #brlcad on 20060921

irclog2html for #brlcad on 20060921

05:25.28*** join/#brlcad digitalfredy (n=digitalf@200.71.62.161)
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13:26.07MaloeranErik, I'll turn that btree of side nodes into a weird tree/list hybrid, thanks for the random thought :)
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16:58.36PrezKennedyi have no fortune on bzflag.bz!!
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Jeff Waugh - find it at freshmeat.net! Modified by Tim Riker to work with blootbot logs, split per channel, etc. irclog2html for #brlcad on 20060922

irclog2html for #brlcad on 20060922

02:16.06*** join/#brlcad IriX64 (n=IriX64@bas3-sudbury98-1168049846.dsl.bell.ca)
02:41.23IriX64Hey twingy, what's your heat source?
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09:02.46LibertyTrooperKnow nothing newbie alert
09:04.01LibertyTrooperSo, anyone home?
09:04.15LibertyTrooperOr, is it too late in da evening?
09:16.48LibertyTrooperSo, this is probably futile; I'm attempting to run BRLCAD on OSX and not having luck.  Of course, I'm simply executing the /usr/brlcad/bin/mged command but I've tried passing it tank.g as an option.
09:17.03LibertyTrooperI get some error mumbo jumbo :  Major opcode of failed request:  129
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09:17.20LibertyTrooperperhaps someone can shed some light on this?
09:17.45LibertyTrooperof course, don't everyone say everything at once.  I mean.. its just botland it seems.
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09:18.39LibertyTrooperfunny, I thought the AUP specifically stated No Bots.  Perhaps I am wrong :?
09:25.40archivistits irc you need to wait a bit
09:40.00LibertyTrooperback.  I'm using a new IRC client and multi tasking over several different computers.  Please bear with me.
09:40.43archivistpeople who know brlcad on OSX are on US time
09:41.10LibertyTrooperI really have to stop being a nightowl I suppose :)
09:42.32LibertyTrooperI probably should find something less complex than BRLCAD...
09:44.36LibertyTrooperAny recommendations?
09:52.06LibertyTrooperIt used to be that one couldn't find good CAD/CAM systems on Windows.  They had to run on Unix.  These days, though, its impossible to find anything reasonable that runs on the largest installed base of Unix around - MacOS :(
09:52.29LibertyTrooperThe worst thing is that I'm a recent refugee from Windows... Just as I was once a refugee from *nix to windows
10:04.17*** part/#brlcad LibertyTrooper (n=LibertyT@wsip-24-234-123-169.lv.lv.cox.net)
10:34.20brlcadmm.. impatience
10:36.14archivistvery
10:36.57archivisti cant believe "largest installed base of Unix around - MacOS"
10:52.02brlcadi've heard that quoted in many various forms and forums, at least for desktop computing
10:52.27brlcadnot hard to buy in terms of largest unix-based vendor, though a lot harder to quantify as the largest installed base
10:54.56brlcadcan't exactly readily measure how many use the various linux and bsds quite as easily since they don't equate to sales so directly
10:55.46clock_brlcad: if you sell a macos does it mean it's installed?
10:56.46brlcadi presume you mean, if apple sells a mac, does it mean mac os is installed?
10:57.03archivisteasier to mesure in terms of downloads for each op system
10:57.06brlcadof course not, but I'd venture 99% of macs retain mac os x
10:57.56brlcadthe minority that buy a mac and then erase it to install linux is a vast minority in the big scheme of things, so you can generally equate the sales as OS users
10:59.23brlcadarchivist: nah, downloads can be quite skewed.. heck I've downloaded 5 different linux variants over the past month alone and only got around to installing two of them
10:59.43brlcadneither of which am I using, was just testing
11:01.09archivistjust as likely to be testing on other systems so the ratio of one to another is the clue stick
11:01.39brlcadhuh?
11:02.02brlcadit's maybe informative as a bsd vs linux metric, but tells me rather nothing about the OS's that I don't download
11:03.24archivistIm thinking of qty of apps downloaded for operating systems not the op systems themselves
11:03.36brlcadthe closest you can get to comparing there is probably by looking at web visitor stats, pick a site that has a fairly minimal bias and compare visitor's OSs or such
11:03.48brlcadahh, perhaps
11:04.14brlcadthough even there, different OS have different trends in how you obtain software
11:04.59brlcadI frequently buy Mac software, I don't generally ever buy linux software -- I rarely download mac software in comparison
11:05.46brlcadfinding a piece of software that didn't have a user bias would be even harder than finding a website I'd imagine
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11:06.45brlcad(e.g. i'd suspect there's a lot more linux users that download firefox, even compared to windows downloads, simply due to the user bases and prevalent use)
11:07.26brlcadlooking at stats for something like google or maybe cnn (us and international ed.) would be most telling
11:21.49archivistI spend a lot of time in #mysql and a large proportion of questions are from linux/bsd users but mysql state that windows binaries have a larger download qty (probably skewed by distros supplied stuff)
11:41.40brlcadheh, that's biased on so many levels
11:42.20archivistall stats are biased
11:43.09brlcadsure they are, which is why it's important to minimize the bias where possible if you want to derive any sense out of the stats
11:44.12archivistplease dont remind be of Open University Statistics
11:44.25brlcadreferring to how many people on a relatively obscure communication forum ask questions about a relatively market specific piece of software doesn't really say much at all :)
11:50.14brlcadwhich is why I mentioned site visitors, if it's installed desktop OS user base we're going after, then one thing almost universal these days is internet browsing .. picking a site that has fairly global appeal/popularity to minimize market/cultural/regional bias, ergo looking at stats for a place like yahoo, cnn, ebay, google, etc
11:50.50brlcadwith that, I'd expect you might be able to get the error down to just a couple percentage points
11:57.25brlcadanyhow, we're not likely to get those stats until the big name sites tally up their results for us or provide some sort of interface to data mine
11:58.37archivisthehe that will be the day, thinking about "errors" I gota go to a gear manufacturer to take some gears back this afternoon, they through hardened so I cannot machine the hubs
13:52.11``Erik*yawn*
14:02.18MaloeranFor that random thought which triggered a reconstruction of the side traversal, you'll be forced to have your name in the future paper Erik :)
14:03.56``Erikheh
14:04.03``Erikis the reconstruction... beneficial? :D
14:04.36MaloeranTheorically, it could save about 5-10% memory and speed up the traversal a tiny bit
14:04.46``Eriksweet
14:05.06``Erik<-- does the "creepy cg diaper baby dance"
14:05.10MaloeranBasically, it will be some weird tree where some following nodes can be fetched at fixed offsets, as in a list
14:06.01MaloeranHum, more like 4-7% less memory
14:07.01``Erikoh, um, that's actually a fairly well known approach... first year CS stuff, dude...
14:07.45MaloeranI know, but I need to store sector pointers when we jump out of the node tree there as well
14:10.53MaloeranOriginally, I couldn't do that as nodes were being reused by neighbour sectors for connections, but that's not quite compatible with dynamic geometry support and doesn't save much ( the prototype does that )
14:11.31MaloeranI noticed you were reading about convenience libraries, any news on that? :)
14:12.29``Erikoh, um, I actually had the library wired into your program
14:12.52``Erikbut gcc does some funny things, apparently it does not like holding the symbol for global variables
14:13.05``Erikwhich you use a few of :) (like mmCount would be undefined outside of mm.o)
14:13.26MaloeranOh, hum.
14:20.42MaloeranAny thought then? Just #ifdef away these global variables for memory tracking?
14:55.41``Erikwell, the globals being in the object are fine... it's accessing them that's tricky... personally write "accessor" functions *shrug*
14:55.49``Erikbut we can always figure something else out *shrug*
17:27.09*** join/#brlcad IriX64 (n=IriX64@bas3-sudbury98-1168049846.dsl.bell.ca)
22:03.18MaloeranJustin's url for a laptop battery recommendation scrolled out of the irc buffer by a few lines, can anyone copy that for me?..
22:05.53IriX64what brand laptop?
22:07.57MaloeranAcer 3000, 3003wlmi more precisely
22:18.37IriX64try www.acer.com or www.acer.ca.
22:24.24Maloeran"Microsoft VBScript compilation  error '800a03e9'    Out of memory    /vs/go/acer-aspire-notebook.asp, line 0"   Out of memory, I like that :)
22:26.18IriX64:)
22:33.39IriX64$ gcc --version
22:33.39IriX64gcc (GCC) 4.1.1
22:33.40IriX64Copyright (C) 2006 Free Software Foundation, Inc.
22:33.40IriX64This is free software; see the source for copying conditions.  There is NO
22:33.40IriX64warranty; not even for MERCHANTABILITY or FITNESS FOR A PARTICULAR PURPOSE.
22:33.50IriX64IriX64@hagarsfi-f038a0 ~/brlcad-10.0.0look familiar? ;)
22:36.05IriX64smokity break. :)
22:57.22``Erikyes, looks like dumbass in motion. :D
23:15.23Twingymy heat source?
Jeff Waugh - find it at freshmeat.net! Modified by Tim Riker to work with blootbot logs, split per channel, etc. irclog2html for #brlcad on 20060923

irclog2html for #brlcad on 20060923

00:11.39IriX64Twingy: your forge, you use torches?
00:31.00IriX64``Erik: you've got that backwards it's ass dumb. ;)
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01:40.59Twingypropane
01:41.06TwingyC3H8
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02:03.17dan_falckHi Twingy
02:04.32dan_falckthis doesn't do a whole lot yet, but check it out:
02:04.36dan_falckhttp://home.comcast.net/~mark8437/index.html
02:05.04dan_falcka little bit of a CAM program on top of OpenCASCADE
02:30.36Twingyhello
02:31.56dan_falckMark Pictor wrote that
02:32.05dan_falckhe's also on the EMC list
02:32.17Twingyurf
02:32.22Twingyhe didn't tar it up with a folder
02:33.19Twingystargate, bbl
02:33.31dan_falckok
02:38.41``Erikstargate++
02:44.02Twingydan_falck, seeing that surface brings make memories
02:44.09Twingys/make/back
03:42.14IriX64what file system should i format my jump drive in?
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03:56.28``Erikcpmfs
03:58.04IriX64cross pointed multi-functional system ... all right. :)
03:58.45IriX64cpm file system?
03:59.08IriX64won't fit in the 8" drive.
04:02.48IriX6493 meg bz2 file sheesh.
04:03.47IriX64thats after a make clean.
04:05.11IriX64didn't realize it had gotten that big, oh well.
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04:55.40ValarQmorning folks
05:50.59ValarQ:/
05:58.58brlcadevening too
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08:03.45LibertyTrooperEvening all.
08:12.13LibertyTrooperI guess I'm too late again this evening to find anyone who uses BRL on Mac.
08:35.25LibertyTrooperHELLOOOOOOOO!!!!!! Anyone home?
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16:14.02CIA-9BRL-CAD: 03lbutler * 10brlcad/doc/html/manuals/mged/mged_cmd_index.html: added documentation for expand_comb_tree
16:15.43CIA-9BRL-CAD: 03lbutler * 10brlcad/src/tclscripts/mged/ (expand_comb_tree.tcl Makefile.am): expand_comb_tree tcl script for expanding combination records to minimal tree nodes
16:18.40CIA-9BRL-CAD: 03lbutler * 10brlcad/doc/html/manuals/mged/mged_cmd_index.html: fixed typos
16:22.12CIA-9BRL-CAD: 03lbutler * 10brlcad/doc/html/manuals/mged/mged_cmd_index.html:
16:22.12CIA-9BRL-CAD: making the example code consistent. Region id's indicated I didn't type the
16:22.13CIA-9BRL-CAD: example in all at once. Sigh. Now it looks like I did.
16:26.28CIA-9BRL-CAD: 03lbutler * 10brlcad/sh/facetall.sh:
16:26.28CIA-9BRL-CAD: Driver script for facetizing all regions in a database. Since mged may
16:26.28CIA-9BRL-CAD: abort during some failed facetization attempts, we need a shell script so that we can re-start it and continue facetizing.
16:28.30CIA-9BRL-CAD: 03lbutler * 10brlcad/src/tclscripts/mged/facetize_all_regions.tcl: Routines to facetize all regions in a database. For use in conjunction with the "facetall.sh" script
16:29.12CIA-9BRL-CAD: 03lbutler * 10brlcad/sh/Makefile.am: added facetall.sh to installed scripts
16:32.39CIA-9BRL-CAD: 03lbutler * 10brlcad/NEWS: added expand_comb_tree and facetall additions
16:34.18CIA-9BRL-CAD: 03lbutler * 10brlcad/src/libbu/cmd.c: To help Doxygen, distinguish the libbu/cmd.c from the cmd.c in other directories
16:36.15CIA-9BRL-CAD: 03lbutler * 10brlcad/misc/ (Doxyfile doxygen_structure):
16:36.15CIA-9BRL-CAD: Added librt to the directories processed. Reformatted doxygen_source to be
16:36.15CIA-9BRL-CAD: a little more readable. Each directory has a single comment that builds all
16:36.15CIA-9BRL-CAD: the sub-groups for the directory.
16:37.16CIA-9BRL-CAD: 03lbutler * 10brlcad/NEWS: Noted Doxygen updates
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17:02.38jan_hello folks
17:11.33*** part/#brlcad jan_ (n=jan@p54825FF6.dip.t-dialin.net)
23:19.06*** join/#brlcad IriX64 (n=Who@bas3-sudbury98-1168050698.dsl.bell.ca)
23:21.55IriX64gcc 4.1.1 on cygwin , can you beleive it?
23:22.11IriX64believe too.
23:23.04IriX64compiles brlcad successfully.
Jeff Waugh - find it at freshmeat.net! Modified by Tim Riker to work with blootbot logs, split per channel, etc. irclog2html for #brlcad on 20060924

irclog2html for #brlcad on 20060924

02:13.39brlcadeep, lotsa privs
02:25.11Twingymeep meep
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03:17.52dan_falckmeep
03:18.12Twingy'lo
03:18.22dan_falckhi
03:18.32dan_falckhow's it going
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03:18.46TwingyI need to write the manual gui for gcam
03:18.47dan_falckoh oh
03:19.11dan_falckdo you want some help with it?
03:19.12TwingyI'll use a standard treeview and expat I think
03:19.19Twingyyou know gtk?
03:19.27Twingyor expat?
03:19.33dan_falcknot gtk, but the manual for using it
03:19.43Twingyyou do any coding?
03:19.48dan_falckpython
03:19.55Twingym'kay
03:20.11dan_falckI design tooling, not a programmer
03:20.17Twingyah, k
03:20.27Twingywell, gcam is functional right now
03:20.32dan_falckcool
03:20.34Twingyyou got time to give it a spin?
03:20.37dan_falckyes
03:21.03Twingyum, comtrash disabled my inbounds, should be on comcast worksplace next week, but how do you want tarball
03:21.20dan_falcktgz is fine
03:21.24Twingyhow
03:21.28Twingydcc?
03:21.45dan_falckdcc doesn't seem to work with this system
03:21.56dan_falckhow about the web site?
03:22.32Twingyagain
03:22.38Twingycomcast disabled my inbounds
03:22.54TwingyI am switching to comcast workplace with a static ip, but not until next week
03:22.58Twingy...will that occur
03:23.07dan_falckok, sorry
03:23.14dan_falckhow big is it?
03:23.23Twingywhat OS are you running
03:23.47dan_falckubuntu, mac os x, redhat 7, debian
03:23.53Twingyk, works on all those
03:23.58dan_falcklot's of machines out in my garage
03:24.09Twingywindows/freedos/freebsd in the garage
03:24.56Twingyhow about email
03:25.07dan_falcklet's try it
03:25.11dan_falckdfalck@verizon.net
03:26.39Twingysent
03:27.18dan_falckok got it.  Thanks
03:27.27Twingyscratch the src/gcam, make that ./gcam
03:28.02Twingylet me know after you got it running
03:28.28dan_falckOk.  I'm going to transfer it to a ubuntu box in my garage.  I will let you know how things work out tomorrow.
03:28.31dan_falckthanks
03:29.40Twingyk
03:29.42Twingyhere's how things work
03:30.14Twingycreate a new project, insert a sketch, insert lines and arcs, insert lines and arcs into the extrusion to control depth
03:30.39Twingyexport g-code to drive mill, double check the feed though
03:33.17dan_falckok
03:34.03Twingythere are a handful of minor things that still need work
03:34.23Twingyso whenever I get around to finishing those I can release
03:34.53dan_falckI've been testing out lots of little bits of OS cam
03:35.01dan_falcksmall applications
03:35.17dan_falckthat OpenCascade CAM thing was the latest
03:35.37TwingyI wasn't thrilled by OpenCascade CAM
03:35.43dan_falckI've been looking at aptos, which is command line driven but very powerful
03:35.53Twingyit's using alot of non-standard stuff to create something in a hurry
03:36.28TwingyI think you'll find the foundation of gcam is very solid, more than meets the gui
03:37.27dan_falckis it possible to extract info about lines and circles from it to pipe into another application? (not having looked at it yet)
03:37.38dan_falcklines and arcs I mean
03:37.44Twingyfrom the binary file, sure
03:37.55TwingyI haven't published the binary file spec yet
03:38.19Twingyit's highly extensible and backwards compatible oriented
03:38.44Twingymuch thought went into it
03:39.41Twingynow I'm off, ttyl
03:39.59dan_falcklet me compile this on the garage machine.  I'll pop up under another irc name from there
03:40.02dan_falckthanks
03:40.18dan_falckbye
03:40.27Twingyk
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19:53.46CIA-9BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/sh/header.sh: let header.sh be used with other projects and copyright holders too
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Jeff Waugh - find it at freshmeat.net! Modified by Tim Riker to work with blootbot logs, split per channel, etc. irclog2html for #brlcad on 20060925

irclog2html for #brlcad on 20060925

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03:53.54justin_I have lay-in lugs, w00t
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12:51.13MaloeranWoah. I mentionned my interest to explore raytracing hardware to Mark from Survice, and now they ask if they can provide anything I could use, even if it's as a hobby
12:53.15MaloeranPrasad stopped idling on IRC long ago, hasn't he?
12:55.02archivist!seen Pra5ad
12:55.09MaloeranErik seemed to have some vague and diffuse interest to tackle raytracing hardware. What about you, Sean?
13:23.49MaloeranOr anyone else for that matter ;). I sure wouldn't mind exchanging a few thoughts with Prasad if he were to drop by again
13:27.30CIA-9BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/libbu/Makefile.am:
13:27.30CIA-9BRL-CAD: make the dependency on libbu.la more explicit, otherwise some versions of
13:27.30CIA-9BRL-CAD: automake/libtool seem to not detect the dependency causing them to attempt a
13:27.30CIA-9BRL-CAD: linking of htester before libbu has finished building. thx to dan o'neill for
13:27.31CIA-9BRL-CAD: reporting this issue (sf bug report 1563466, libbu.la missing)
13:31.37brlcad~seen pra5ad
13:31.51ibotpra5ad <n=prasad@pool-151-196-137-196.balt.east.verizon.net> was last seen on IRC in channel #brlcad, 32d 13h 28m 54s ago, saying: 'pickle'.
13:32.03brlcadheh, pickle
13:32.14brlcadthat about sums up prasad
13:33.19brlcadMaloeran: mildly.. it really depends on the hardware and cost
13:35.13MaloeranFPGAs first, followed by ASIC, then the world? :) VHDL/Verilog code are fairly "portable" for hardware design
13:35.36brlcadin general if it's just an academic persuit with little chance of ever spreading through the community, then my interest dwindles.. even if the hardware and research would be cool .. :)
13:35.56brlcadfpgas in general would be nice to play with just because they have broad applications
13:36.07MaloeranI'm unsure about that, it must be possible to get some backing in order to pursue this beyond a toy
13:36.28MaloeranIf we solve dynamic geometry, raytracing hardware should be very appealing
13:37.28brlcadbut something tells me that the prices on them aren't going to drop anytime soon, and even if "only" costs a few grand a card (which is currently unrealistic) and gives a nice 10x boost.. and I could have gotten that same boost or better with other chips..
13:38.04MaloeranFPGAs are just meant for quick testing and experiments I think. To get serious, we need ASIC
13:38.16brlcadi'm not saying I doubt that it couldn't get backing beyond a toy, that doesn't make it something that will "spread through the community" though
13:38.29brlcadgetting the backing is frankly easy
13:39.05MaloeranAn ASIC design can be fully developed before any real investment, and then we could look for backing
13:39.22brlcadi'm just questioning the merit of the approach, the overall long term utility is quite dubious
13:40.01MaloeranI suppose the long term utility would be to make the first steps towards the disappearance of rasterization hardware
13:40.48brlcadand I don't think that will happen anytime soon
13:40.58brlcadthey're driving the market by a couple orders of magnitude
13:41.10brlcadmore likely is that video cards will get more and more generic
13:41.22brlcadmaybe a union of the "physics card" capabilities
13:41.53brlcadand more programmable in general, maybe eventually to the point of an fpga or some limited subset
13:42.19MaloeranPossibly. Commercial raytracing ASIC boards are already avaiable out there, so there must be a market of some sort
13:42.36brlcador at least someone thinks there's a market :)
13:42.46MaloeranThe more programmable it is, the less optimized it is for raytracing specifically
13:42.53archivistbuild into your stuff into tft display then
13:43.13brlcadyep, which is why fpga's are mostly academically interesting until you can get that onto an asic
13:43.26brlcadsince you won't get the best performance
13:43.38MaloeranClearly so, but it's handy as a development toy
13:44.40brlcadmy main "concern" though is say that the technical implementation was all taken care of and we could fab the "best" ray-tracing specific asic today
13:45.12brlcadsomeone ponies up 500k in funds to have a bunch of cards made, a massive render farm of sorts
13:46.06MaloeranHow is that a concern?
13:46.07brlcadhow does that performance compare to 500k invested into a supercomputer/cluster instead?  
13:46.14MaloeranAh right
13:46.18brlcadi don't think the numbers are there myself
13:46.30brlcadand the supercomputer/cluster has vastly more applicable use
13:46.40brlcads/applicable/general/
13:47.01brlcadi mean it's cool, very cool
13:47.08brlcadbut .... :)
13:47.14MaloeranThat's the main issue, definitely. The way I see it, and I could be mistaken, raytracing has not become meanstream because of lack of dynamic geometry support
13:47.31MaloeranWith superior algorithms, we can correct that, among other things
13:47.59brlcadand in two years after you dump that 500k in, the cards may depreciate something like 80% and the cpus 50%
13:48.40MaloeranIf the design was good, it should be equally possible to build new fancy ASICs with the technology of the moment
13:49.17brlcadwhile i don't think ray-tracing has become mainstream because 90% of the community doesn't need or care about the capabilities provided -- that will slowly change as more and more realism is added, but even that is a few years off
13:49.30brlcadand in general you can always fake it much faster than you can simulate it
13:49.48MaloeranQuite true. I don't think we would get to the point where we are ready to put ASIC boards together within 2 years anyhow
13:50.08brlcadi mean every single effect and benefit that ray-tracing provides is generally doable on the video card with maybe the exception of subsurface scattering
13:50.10MaloeranSo this is a long-term project and/or hobby
13:50.41brlcadand even subsurface is "close enough" with the right textures
13:51.03MaloeranRealistic lighting, as a whole, is not possible by rasterization, but there are other advantages. Ray-tracing doesn't really care about the count of polygons
13:51.09MaloeranYou can even have curved surfaces
13:51.13brlcadthe benefit will come when all of the "hacks" can be thrown away for the considerably more simple "ray-trace" approach when the performance just isn't a concern
13:52.32brlcadsee, you say realistic lighting isn't possible, yet there are a slew of games that hack away "good enough" at reasonably good lighting, good enough for their users regardless if there's no foundation on realism
13:52.56brlcadand they already have curved surfaces (end result, not underlying implementation) from their perspective
13:53.35brlcadnot caring about the polygon count would be a benefit
13:54.08MaloeranQuite right. Raytracing still have some serious advantages regarding the simplicity and flexibility of the rendering, and performance being mostly independnat on the complexity of the scene
13:54.44MaloeranIt's horrible how much you have to hack things together to do something "realistic" with rasterization rendering, I played with OpenGL for a while...
13:55.17brlcadwhat I could see happen would be a dedicated ray-trace pipeline getting tacked onto video cards
13:55.39brlcadbut that'd only occur IFF the ray-trace community could standardize
13:56.08MaloeranThat would only be possible with serious hardware support for space partitioning and so on, I don't think it's so likely to appear on GPUs
13:56.22brlcadtalked about that sort of an idea several times with some guys at ati a few years ago and the idea wasn't unheard of
13:58.01MaloeranWell then... To summarize, if we were to seriously aim for a high-performance ASIC implementation, would you have any interest?
13:58.08brlcadheh
13:59.51brlcadpossibly, I suppose it really depends on a lot of (other) issues
14:00.40brlcadi've got a new modeling system to focus on, geometry server, run-time engine, solid model analyses, ...
14:01.42MaloeranUnderstood, and it can wait a few months... I wish we could put together a little team of motivated individuals on this problem, I am personally very interested as you surely noticed
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18:09.30IriX64<PROTECTED>
18:09.44IriX64whats that all about?
18:10.58IriX64happened in overlap tool obj1-obj2.
18:11.16IriX64havoc database.
18:11.27IriX64reproducible.
18:12.09IriX64and don't tell *me to fix it, you own it :)
18:30.14IriX64castle has no overlaps.
18:32.04IriX64neither does cornell :)
18:33.14MaloeranThe 10k polygons castle model? Ah, I remember Twingy and I using that in our early ray-tracing experiments :)
18:34.01MaloeranIn the days where we would get 200k rays per second instead of 10 millions
18:36.13IriX64says its the logo castle.
18:36.44IriX64btw you're at a conference, are you playing hookey? :)
18:37.03ValarQIriX64: hey, stop spamming me
18:37.12IriX64haha all right.
18:37.41IriX64was looking for something you might like because i so enjoyed your vortex.
18:37.56ValarQyou're filling my 0.5TB raid in my mailserver :P
18:38.09MaloeranAh, we came back from that conference last Friday
18:38.10IriX64hehe ill tar them up then ;)
18:38.19IriX64ah i c.
18:39.18IriX64half a terrabyte? whooo hooo.
18:39.46IriX64500gigs later of Irix^4's screen shots and what do we have :)
18:39.58IriX64s/6/^
18:41.25IriX64BTW that error is real.
18:42.59IriX64hahaha Gordon Lightfoot, summerside of life albumn "and the kind of gig I like the most is a rubbing the wrong girl right"
18:43.45IriX64:)
18:44.34IriX64Mouth Wash only $1.50 per bottle ;)
18:46.14IriX64and no i'm not implying you have halsitosis. :)
18:48.49IriX64star.g->shooting rays at 100.0mm this may take some time.     doh tell me about it.
18:50.25IriX64if you're going to be a solid modelling suite *be a solid modelling suite ;)
18:51.54IriX64ray spacing .1m sigh.... look before you shoot :)
18:53.58IriX64cpu load 100% however kernel time is not even on the scale it's so low.
19:07.13IriX64scuse me, leaky horse, brb. :)
19:22.22IriX64g_lint -> 98%          sheesh.
19:23.07IriX64cpu that is not progress.... blargh.
19:25.23IriX64but as they say, I mourn, I grieve, I move on.
19:25.57IriX64he was such hot shit toilet paper burned when it touched him :)
19:55.08MaloeranWhat do you use BRL-CAD for, IriX64? Just curious
20:12.13IriX64testing my x-compiler.
20:12.52IriX64how do you test any compiler?throw lots and lots of code at her, and BrlCad qualifies as lots and lots of code :)
20:17.46IriX64thats why i only report bugs I come across, too busy fixing my own ;)
20:18.38MaloeranInteresting, what compiler are you working on?
20:38.22IriX64working on what started life as gcc 3.3.3 but has eveolved to be cassie.exe
20:38.32IriX64evolved too.
20:39.13IriX64checking for x86-unix-linux-gnu-gcc...cassie.exe love it.
20:40.13IriX64left a copy called gcc.exe for configure scripts that don't honor CC.
20:42.33IriX64can you believe this, overlap tool is still shooting rays, what'd you guys do?
20:43.28IriX64this gui is the shits, i should abandon it. :)
20:44.04IriX64you see i need to work on something between 5 hour compile runs. :)
20:44.10MaloeranWhine about the current raytracer, you'll like the next one ;)
20:44.25IriX64heh thanks for the invitation :)
20:44.49MaloeranIt might be the fastest in the world, apparently
20:45.14IriX64define fast, all computers wait at the same speed. :)
20:45.36IriX6418.2 ;)
20:48.29IriX64altho, you know they could use 36.4 or 44.4 and scale for backwards compatibility *shrug.
20:57.40MaloeranAnything special about your branch of gcc? Better optimisation?
20:58.52IriX64arch mcpu things of that nature, and yes optimization of 3 is there.
21:02.27IriX64$ gcc --version
21:02.27IriX64gcc (GCC) 4.1.1
21:02.27IriX64Copyright (C) 2006 Free Software Foundation, Inc.
21:02.27IriX64This is free software; see the source for copying conditions.  There is NO
21:02.27IriX64warranty; not even for MERCHANTABILITY or FITNESS FOR A PARTICULAR PURPOSE.
21:02.28IriX64IriX64@hagarsfi-f038a0 ~
21:02.30IriX64$ gcc -dumpmachine
21:02.32IriX64i686-pc-cygwin
21:02.34IriX64if it helps :)
21:07.58*** join/#brlcad ibot (i=ibot@pdpc/supporter/active/TimRiker/bot/apt)
21:07.58*** topic/#brlcad is http://brlcad.org/ || BRL-CAD is an open source solid modeling software suite || Developers needed! Read the HACKING file for details on getting involved
21:14.44IriX64lf i post my ld --help screen, you'll....       :)
21:24.25IriX64www.pastebin.com Mario D'Ulisse
21:27.13IriX64you know overlap tool needs some work scuse me.
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22:29.23brlcadyou'd think he'd learn
22:33.12dtidrow_worklol
22:46.37``Erikheh
23:37.47Twingytook you long enough
23:42.11brlcadit's not a full ban, just stole his voice
23:46.27dtidrow_workheh
Jeff Waugh - find it at freshmeat.net! Modified by Tim Riker to work with blootbot logs, split per channel, etc. irclog2html for #brlcad on 20060926

irclog2html for #brlcad on 20060926

00:11.19CIA-9BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/include/ (bn.h bu.h): have the headers include the headers they respectively require
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01:34.29Maloeranhttp://www.rayforce.net/galleon.png  -  The killer of ray-tracing acceleration structures
01:34.47MaloeranWith all these wires and ropes in the way :)
01:36.22MaloeranThat will look better with a touch of texturing... that and global illumination
01:39.23MaloeranI challenge these kd-tree people to get good performance in this scene, eheh
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01:53.58brlcadnice model
01:54.26brlcadwhere'd it come from?
01:56.23MaloeranA friend of mine made it, as I mentionned to Lee. Technically, I'm paying the guy
01:56.51MaloeranIt's much more impressive with texturing and so on
01:57.21Maloeranhttp://mcarp.earthstorm.com/reel/rotter-lowe/index.php?showimage=rotter-lowe-070.jpg&screenwidth=1600
01:59.23brlcadunlimited rights? willing to share? :)
01:59.28brlcadwould make for a great test model
01:59.52MaloeranExactly my idea, it's the perfect model for raytracing benchmarks
01:59.59brlcadis it a full on poly model only?
02:00.01MaloeranIt will be available for non-commercial use soon
02:00.32Maloeran"Full on poly model only"? It's made of triangles exclusively, and all volumes are closed to run vulnerability analysis or whatever else you guys do
02:02.25brlcadyeah, a triangle/poly-only model
02:02.38Maloeran*nods* Right
02:02.40brlcadinstead of say a patches model of some sort
02:02.54brlcadsolid would have been my next question, cool
02:03.38MaloeranAnd it was made from real blueprints, so this should be nice. The author really is impressing me, he's a hobbist
02:03.54MaloeranWell, besides the pitiful amounts I pay him to tweak his models for my needs
02:04.26brlcad:)
02:05.37brlcadis he looking for work? I'd pay for some models myself
02:06.03MaloeranOh, he definitely is, he has no contacts to get in the industry
02:06.24MaloeranHence why I'm trying to promote his work a bit, because he's getting really good
02:07.44MaloeranIf you are interested, his nickname is mcarp on efnet, otherwise mcarp@mcarp.org
02:12.52brlcadhangs out anywhere in particular?
02:13.16MaloeranOn efnet's #asm, among the crazy assembly programmers like myself
02:13.53brlcadaiight
02:15.07brlcadwell I am definitely interested, there's been a couple models I've wanted for several years
02:16.01brlcadthough I would like to have it constructed of primitives and CSG so I can do comparisons
02:16.33brlcadeither implicits or breps/nurbs, but CSG-driven design to match the original
02:16.43MaloeranExcellent news. I don't know if he's used to anything else than triangles as final product, but feel free to ask him
02:17.00MaloeranHe certainly is used to nurbs, I wouldn't know about CSG though
02:17.02brlcadhe's a student?
02:17.15MaloeranHe's a ~40 years old tech support guy
02:17.20brlcadah, cool
02:18.41MaloeranFeel free to share how it goes if you chat with him, I have been willing to get some attention on his skills for some time
03:07.23MaloeranErik, the autoconf/automake stuff breaks when trying to compile a 32 bits executable on amd64. It appends a ton of -L paths but these are for 64 bits libraries
03:08.38MaloeranAh, it forces -L/usr/lib/libSDL.so instead of letting ld find it by itself
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15:36.25mcarpdoes anyone have an estimate of how long it took to create the tank in this screen shot:
15:36.26mcarphttp://sourceforge.net/dbimage.php?id=36174
15:37.17clock_mcarp: you mean how long it took to develop Stryker ICV? Or how long the guys in factory assemble it together? Or how long it took to make the model? Or how long it renders?
15:37.31MaloeranMake the model surely
15:37.48mcarphow long did it take to make the model from primitives in brl-cad
15:38.35mcarpapprox man hours
15:39.28clock_mcarp: I'm sure this is a classified information, the information that the information is classified is classified too, and by just thinking about it you are automatically becoming a terrorist and will be dispatched to Syria upon your next visit to an airport :)
15:39.36MaloeranThere's a possibility it might have been provided by the company producing the vehicule. It was also rendered with ADRT which only deals with triangles, so perhaps it wasn't made of BRL-CAD CSG primitives
15:39.52mcarpcute
15:40.28MaloeranAre you on the brl-cad team or an user of the software, clock_?
15:40.43clock_Maloeran: user
15:41.23mcarpi fail to understand how keeping the number of man hours to build that model secret has any relevence to anything in reality
15:41.37MaloeranRight. mcarp : brlcad or ``Erik are likely to know more
15:41.58clock_mcarp: the whole idea o classified information doesn
15:42.04clock_t have any relevance to reality either
15:42.18clock_and also the one with terrorism ;-)
15:42.23mcarpincorrect. classified information protects us national security sir
15:43.05clock_Much more people die on highways than from terrorism...
15:43.16mcarppoint?
15:43.36clock_it's just a masquerade
15:43.57clock_Basically "we want power, but we have to hook it up on something to make it look plausible"
15:44.25mcarpthat is irrelevent to my question of required man hours for a model of this complexity
15:44.59clock_mcarp: I don't know it and I just wanted to push my irrelevant opinion :)
15:58.11brlcadmcarp: it's a hybrid model, put together in various systems and involves lots of people
15:59.02brlcadit's a mix of csg and poly, converted to full poly for that particular rendering for adrt
15:59.39clock_brlcad: adrt is part of brlcad?
15:59.56brlcadit's shipped as part of brl-cad, yes
16:00.16clock_brlcad: is rt for CSG and adrt for polygons?
16:00.28brlcadpretty self-contained codebase though, it could just as easily be it's own project (and is/was)
16:01.34brlcadclock_: pretty much, though it's more like adrt for triangles and rt for anything (csg, poly, brep, etc)
16:01.48brlcadadrt gets its performance by specializing on processing triangles quickly
16:01.53clock_brlcad: is adrt faster or what is the advantage? And what does the ad mean?
16:02.15brlcadadvanced distributed ray tracer
16:02.32brlcadadrt is faster processing triangles than rt is
16:03.30brlcadrt supports much more of a variety of geometry, lighting models, run-time options, cross-platform support, etc
16:05.18mcarpwell as far as man hours on that model are we talking about weeks months what
16:06.03brlcadmcarp: the stryker model is also part of a much larger effort that involves several organizations, engineering teams, analysis teams all with different focus points and is a constantly changing model as new armor is tested, different systems are tried, etc
16:07.02mcarpim trying to get an idea what kind of workflow time wise the average modelers are getting in this
16:07.32brlcadas far as man hours, if you were to try to model what's already there and had all the design specifications (which isn't reasonably feasible), we'd be talking several weeks, maybe a couple months
16:07.35clock_brlcad: how is it from moral point of view if someone doesn't want to contribute to arms race, but wants to work on GPL project? Is working on BRL-CAD moral or immoral then?
16:07.58brlcadand that estimate is using BRL-CAD or Unigraphics or Pro/E or Solidworks
16:08.38brlcadas it is, the model actually involves what's probably more like several man-years of effort as, again, it's a constantly changing model
16:09.00brlcadand brl-cad only touches one small aspect of it, the vulnerability/lethality analysis side
16:09.03mcarpare there any non-classified examples of high detail available
16:09.25brlcadmcarp: not of any of the good models
16:09.30clock_brlcad: I did lethality analysis on Ronja, but the resulting lethality is very low :)
16:10.12mcarpas an independent contractor i have to get a grasp on some method of fee calculation
16:10.19brlcadi've been trying to get a simplified version of a particular russian vehicle released as open source for several years without success (a very well known model that you could probably go buy on the market if you really wanted)
16:10.29mcarpwhich is directly perportional to likely time spent on complex geometry
16:11.26brlcadmcarp: understood, it's a hard problem to estimate time on an unknown task
16:11.44mcarphavoc.g for instance crashes brlcad on raytrace so i cant get a good idea of the final results.  castle.g will ratrace
16:11.49mcarptank-car.g crashes
16:11.58brlcadclock_: i don't personally see contributing to brl-cad as contributing to an arms race
16:12.13clock_brlcad: because anyone can use brl-cad for any purpose, right?
16:12.14mcarpis there anything about "draw *" that could contribute to a crash of ratrace attempts
16:12.17brlcadhavoc.g crashes?  .. that shouldnt' happen
16:12.36brlcadeek
16:12.36clock_brlcad: and if the army pays some money for development, it will become weaker by the money removed, and arms race is actually slowed down :)
16:12.43brlcadyeah.. "draw *" is .. bad :)
16:13.06brlcadgets back to all of the expert knowledge that you have to know for basic operation ;)
16:13.16mcarpsure of course
16:13.27brlcad* expands to every object at every level of the model hierarchy
16:13.31mcarpwhat is the recommended level of drawing to get a view of the final results
16:13.33clock_brlcad: we implemented a segfault recovery into Links - maybe you could borrow the code
16:13.33brlcadwhich is certainly not what you wanted
16:13.51mcarpright of course
16:13.53clock_brlcad: we use it for the final demonstration as university project - to make sure it doesn't segfault in front of the comission :D
16:13.53brlcadstart with "tops" to get a list of the top level objects, and then "draw some_object"
16:14.15mcarpisnt there a draw everything thats going to be looked at type command?
16:14.47clock_brlcad: then the debugging was like "PerM, you should really do something with your javascript interpreter, my browser got already 7 segfaults..."
16:15.16brlcadno, brl-cad geometry files often contain multiple models, not just one like you often find in other modeling systems .. there is no "default" object to display in several instances
16:15.39brlcadwe try to only have one in the public test databases, to minimize confusion, but that's not the common practice
16:15.48brlcadfor havoc.g, the primary object is "havoc"
16:16.19brlcadclock_: what license is links?
16:16.31*** join/#brlcad danfalck (n=dan@pool-71-111-76-8.ptldor.dsl-w.verizon.net)
16:16.47MaloeranAh, I wish I had access to reasonably complex models myself ;), though I'm really fond of mcarp's superb frigate
16:17.22MaloeranI finally have a model with which I can work on collection of multiple intersection points per ray, segment construction for traversal of materials
16:17.55brlcadclock_: i also don't get the "it will become weaker by the money removed", you mean the army?  that's hardly the case
16:18.21mcarpis there a method of discovery for what is the primary object
16:18.22brlcadgovernments are not corporations, don't act like them and certainly don't involve finances like them
16:18.32brlcadmcarp: yes, tops
16:19.02mcarpah, sorry i misunderstood that
16:19.02mcarpty
16:19.02clock_brlcad: GPL
16:19.02brlcadit's a hierarchy (a directed acyclic graph), so there are only a few trees
16:19.14brlcadclock_: ah, then no use to me :)
16:19.24clock_brlcad: why? BRL-CAD is BSD?
16:19.31brlcadneed to remain lgpl/bsd clean
16:19.43clock_brlcad: we could give you an exception
16:19.56brlcadbrl-cad is a mix, different portions under different licenses
16:20.04clock_brlcad: we already made exception for OpenSSL
16:20.43brlcadall of the GPL code is going to be converted to LGPL here shortly due to an issue with integrating the GPL portions
16:21.12clock_GPL that's like a woman - issues, issues, issues...
16:21.30mcarpthats certainly a much improved display (havoc) as compared to castle.g or truck.g
16:21.53mcarpthat being the only way to see the geometry final results is a big hit to workflow tho
16:22.07brlcadhavoc is a fairly small model, but probably the most complex CSG example openly available
16:22.35brlcadrt -F/dev/ogll (assuming you're on Windows) will render into a window
16:22.36clock_mcarp: if you want some example small models, http://ronja.twibright.com/3d
16:22.43mcarpi'm only seeing orthagonal view modes are there not full perspective views?
16:23.19clock_mcarp: if you subject me to hypnosis I'll be maybe even recall how much manhours it was
16:23.49brlcadmcarp: hit "3", is that what you mean?  otherwise, go to Misc->Perspective for a default high-degree perspective
16:24.01mcarpdo you guys make bolts with threads or are all bolts non-threaded?
16:24.04brlcadusing the shift-grips key bindings, you can spin/pan/zoom the view
16:24.13brlcadmcarp: depends entirely on the model
16:25.37mcarpyes ive had no problems using shift grips
16:25.59mcarp'3' appears to show an orthagonal view with no diminishing point
16:26.02brlcadfor a vulnerability/lethality analysis, threads are generally not of interest on bolts
16:26.21brlcadmcarp: okay, just making sure you really meant perspective ;)
16:26.31mcarpyes i REALLY meant perspective
16:26.35brlcadyou're looking for misc->perspective :)
16:27.04mcarpah, better
16:27.15mcarpis this display ogl accellerated?
16:27.20clock_mcarp: I do without threads because I don't know how to do with threads
16:28.12brlcadmcarp: depends which platform -- in general it usually is compiled with opengl support, though it's not really going to "accellerate" a wireframe view
16:28.42brlcadmged supports various "display managers", one of them is an opengl view
16:29.19mcarpi dont currently have available a bsd or linux system with useful graphics capability so i'm stuck in windows
16:29.36mcarpnot that 'stuck in windows' is bad for me
16:29.39brlcadthe windows binary should be opengl
16:29.57brlcadthat doesn't get you shaded views, but that's an entirely different/long discussion
16:30.43brlcadimplicit geometry vs explicit, design history, ..
16:31.09mcarpflat shaded in viewport would be a big problem?
16:33.21brlcadas mged is currently architected, it's a non-trivial problem
16:33.53mcarpits not non-trivial for visualization of what you're building
16:34.04brlcadbrl-cad on the whole doesn't really care, but the geometry is fundamentally stored in implicit form which doesn't get you triangles to feed opengl
16:34.42mcarpso the primitives arent drawable per se in ogl?
16:35.16brlcadopengl *only* deals with triangles, so what ever you have, you have to convert to triangles to display via opengl
16:35.34brlcaddepending on your base model geometry types, that involves different sorts of conversions
16:36.12brlcadthey can be converted, all of them, and we do for some purposes (e.g. adrt is a triangle-only ray-tracer)
16:37.03mcarphas anyone there done any boat hulls?
16:37.20brlcadguys at the navy
16:37.36mcarpnurbs?
16:38.22brlcadthere's no direct nurbs edit support in mged, only rendering support where the models come in through conversion or through programmatic creation
16:38.58mcarphow about suspension springs
16:39.05mcarpsingle helix
16:39.10brlcadoh sure, lots of those
16:39.38mcarpi havent gone deep enough into the tutorials to have a clue how you'd go about doing that with primitives
16:40.00brlcadthose can be rather easily constructed using torus sections or using the pipe primitive (which is basically a path-swept sphere with constraints)
16:40.00mcarpwhich is why i asked about the bolt threads b4
16:40.51mcarpok, so there are some specialized deformative type parameters then
16:41.13brlcadcsg construction methods don't "come naturally" if you're coming from different design philosophies
16:41.47brlcadit's a different way at looking at modeling problems
16:41.51mcarpwell i think its not the csg issues that im in the dark about its the brl-cad issues that im really in the dark on
16:42.02brlcadsome things lend themselves very nicely to CSG, others not so nicely depending on the primitive set
16:42.14mcarpsure its all about the primitive set
16:42.28mcarpjust as with any system its all about what parameters can be applied
16:45.43brlcadyep
16:46.11brlcadsome things with the brep method become complex, there certainly is a tradeoff in the techniques
16:46.33brlcadwhich would be why most systems have become rather highly hybrid (the CAD systems that is, MAX doesn't count) ;)
16:47.37brlcadsolid modeling in general has a variety of topological constraints that aren't easily verifiable in non-CAD systems
16:50.54mcarpyeah thats completely obvious when you start talking about things like pullies and ropes reguarding overlap
17:08.59mcarp/dev/ogll could be much more efficient if it draws only invalidated regions rather than the entire window
17:09.35mcarpbut i am able to ratrayce all the scenes i crashed originally with draw *
17:10.24MaloeranAnything better looking than the donut-wheeled truck? :)
17:10.38mcarpyeah havoc looks very nice
17:10.48mcarptank_car is reasonable as well
17:10.55Maloeran*nods* Good
17:11.01mcarpi havent explored all the examples yet tho
17:11.54mcarpdonut tires tho...*shakes head*....i wouldnt show those, not good for recruiting business
17:13.10MaloeranAh! Donuts, is there anything they can't do?
17:13.56brlcadmcarp: none of the example models are intended for recruiting business .. can't generally provide the models that would be good for recruiting business
17:14.10brlcadthey're mostly intended as test models for development
17:14.18brlcadmade by non-modelers often too
17:14.59brlcadhavoc is perhaps the only exception, and maybe the barbie jeep toy
17:15.28mcarpwhich database is that?
17:15.53brlcadthe latter is a good example of what was possible after the introductory training and a couple hours modeling
17:16.12brlcadit's toyjeep.g
17:16.25brlcadprobably not in your version, you'd have to pull it from cvs
17:16.31mcarpyeah its not here
17:17.05brlcada *really* nice one that I like is the motorolla walkie-talkie that was used in the advanced modeling tutorial
17:19.58brlcadbut i've not put that into cvs yet, but it's a nice modeler by one of the best modelers; it's got a lot of meta resources, textures, extrusions, and even a few articulations iirc
17:20.21mcarpokeydoke
17:22.50brlcadand instead of the "couple hours" investment in the toyjeep, it's got a couple weeks of care and detail put into it
17:23.15mcarpgot a screen shot?
17:23.23brlcadmcarp: you can get toyjeep from here: http://brlcad.cvs.sourceforge.net/brlcad/brlcad/db/
17:23.35brlcaddownload the .asc and run asc2g to convert it
17:24.12mcarpk
17:25.23brlcadthere are a couple screenshots in http://ftp.brlcad.org/VolumeIII-Principles_of_Effective_Modeling.pdf
17:25.35brlcadthough none of the talkie as a full model
17:25.46mcarpyeah im actually flipping through that document at the moment but havent gotten to it
17:25.47mcarpyet
17:26.06brlcadit just covers a piece of the antenna and the circuit board
17:34.58mcarpodd, raytrace lingering window exits when i try to raytrace that
17:35.17mcarptops
17:35.18mcarpall/
17:35.20mcarpdraw all
17:36.21mcarpat least it didnt crash mged :P
17:52.35mcarpi can raytrace individual objects but there is something under all/ that cant be drawn
17:54.00mcarpor rather, cant be raytraced
17:55.42brlcadhmm
17:56.13mcarplot of stuff under there i'd hate to have to figure out what object(s) shouldnt be drawn
17:56.17mcarpthe only thing in tops is all/
17:57.38mcarpah
17:57.39brlcadit ray-traces just fine here, there may be some issue with the windows version, or asc2g on windows
17:57.48mcarpum, error! fabs(y)=0
17:58.19mcarpbn_mat_inv: error! fabs(y)=0
17:58.55brlcadyeah, something wrong with the model
17:59.19brlcadsee if this .g works:  http://ftp.brlcad.org/~sean/toyjeep.g
17:59.40mcarpa sec
18:00.20mcarpexact same behavior
18:00.36mcarpbn_mat_inv:  error! fabs(y)=0
18:00.37mcarpMATRIX singular matrix:
18:00.37mcarp<PROTECTED>
18:00.37mcarp<PROTECTED>
18:00.37mcarp<PROTECTED>
18:00.39mcarpbn_mat_inv: singular matrix
18:00.58mcarpquick fix suggestions?
18:01.27brlcadshort of recompiling with the latest, not really
18:01.37mcarpk, not a problem i can live without seeing it
18:01.44brlcadthat will require a debugging session
18:01.46mcarpshame tho
18:01.53brlcadgood to know, but quite unexpected
18:02.05mcarphey, if it can be broken i can break it
18:02.08brlcadthe windows release hasn't been around for very long, that is the very first release
18:03.15mcarpi had a machine that could be available for bsd or linux but that hdd was ancient and has gone *poof*
18:03.37mcarpwell ancient for maxtor *shrug*
18:04.34mcarpnot to mention i'd hate to give up my dual display
18:05.10mcarpmax + photoshop you need every available square inch of real estate you can get
18:06.24mcarpi dunno how ppl without dual displays live without them when editing uvw maps in max
18:06.31mcarpok i do know cuz i used to
18:07.26*** join/#brlcad IriX64 (n=IriX64@bas3-sudbury98-1168054347.dsl.bell.ca)
18:30.09mcarpdrawing bl_main_power_line.r or bl_bl.s2 causes the raytracer to exit
18:30.20mcarpall other objects drawn, successful raytrace
18:31.12mcarpbbiaf
18:43.26``Erik*yawn*
18:55.08MaloeranEheh. Erik, mcarp is the cathedral & galleon modeller
18:55.57MaloeranGalleon which is quite a test for any raytracer acceleration structure
18:56.44mcarpback
18:58.31``Erikcool, hi
18:58.52mcarphi
18:59.24``Erik<-- is Erik, not a modeller
18:59.46mcarpokeydoke
18:59.53MaloeranErik, how am I supposed to compile 32 bits executables on amd64 with your autoconf/automake stuff? It tries to link against /usr/lib/libSDL.so which is 64 bits
19:00.05MaloeranRather than letting ld find the proper library itself
19:00.13``ErikI'm a model :D *pose*
19:00.23brlcadmcarp: thanks for the details, it's scheduled to get looked into
19:00.24``Erikmal: that'd be an issue with sdl-config itself... :/
19:00.32mcarpyw
19:01.20MaloeranNo hint of solution then? Besides quickly putting together a working Makefile or even a bash script
19:01.58``Erikum, I'm sure there is one...
19:02.29MaloeranIf I just use -lSDL, ld will find the proper library by itself
19:02.39``Erikermmmmmmm
19:02.50MaloeranBut the automake stuff tries to force a particular version by -L
19:02.51``Erikyou link with @SDL_LIBS@ ?
19:03.18``Erikum, I'm kinda wondering if that's libtool doing it, not automake...
19:03.18MaloeranYes
19:03.50CIA-9BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/BUGS: rendering toyjeep.g on Windows causes a crash on 'all', as well as bl_main_power_line.r or bl_bl.s2. bn_mat_inv() singular matrix error. bug found and reported by mcarp, thanks
19:04.11``Eriktry to echo ${SDL_LIBS} in configure.ac... or better yet, read what was printed on the screen to link, heh, should be two very very long lines, one that calls libtool with flags, the next being what libtool tries to execute
19:04.38brlcadah, sdl-config doesn't know/care about 64bit iirc
19:05.19Maloerangcc -std=gnu99 -I./RT -I/usr/include/SDL -D_REENTRANT -m32 -o .libs/rftest main.o env.o crudemesh.o rtirender.o rtirenderflat.o -Wl,-rpath -Wl,/usr/lib  -L/usr/lib /usr/lib/libSDL.so /usr/lib/gcc/x86_64-pc-linux-gnu/3.4.5/libstdc++.so -L/usr/x86_64-pc-linux-gnu/bin -L/usr/x86_64-pc-linux-gnu/lib -L/usr/lib/gcc/x86_64-pc-linux-gnu/3.4.5 -L/usr/lib/gcc/x86_64-pc-linux-gnu/3.4.5/../../../../x86_64-pc-linux-gnu/lib/../lib -L/usr/lib/gcc/x86_64-pc-linux-gnu/3.
19:05.23Maloeran<PROTECTED>
19:05.27mcarpCIA-9: yessir
19:06.20MaloeranCIA-9 is a bot, but I'm sure he appreciates the acknowledgement of its existence :)
19:06.25``Erikthe line before it is what you care about, mal
19:06.29mcarpah :/
19:06.39Maloeranmkdir .libs
19:06.46Maloeran<PROTECTED>
19:06.46mcarpyou might amend that to 'raytrace exit' doesnt crash brl-cad
19:06.49``Erikshould be like ../../libtool --mode=compile
19:07.06``Erikok, so it's libtool screwing the pooch
19:07.12``Eriknot automake or autoconf, hrm
19:08.44``Erikdamn my ribs hurt :/
19:09.14MaloeranToo much boat rowing with Sean?
19:09.20brlcadheh
19:10.08brlcadyou could add an --enable-64bit option of some sort and when enabled/detected do something like `sdl-config --libs | sed 's/lib/lib64/g'`
19:10.38MaloeranCompiling 64 bits is quite fine, it doesn't manage to build on 32 bits
19:10.46MaloeranUnless I compile on another box anyway
19:11.03MaloeranI maintain that we probably would have less problems with one Makefile per platform, it's simple and it works, but.. *sigh*
19:11.06brlcadwhat does sdl-config --libs output?
19:11.24Maloeran-L/usr/lib -Wl,-rpath,/usr/lib -lSDL -lpthread
19:11.41MaloeranIt should be /usr/lib32/libSDL.so for 32 bits libraries
19:12.28brlcadah, well similar 'trick' should do the trick
19:12.59brlcad``Erik: cad crash?
19:13.17``Erikhuh?
19:13.23MaloeranPricy BWM crash?
19:13.27``Erikyeah :(
19:13.50brlcadjust lost connectivity
19:13.56``Erikhttp://math.missouristate.edu/~erik/m3/20060925/   (my camera sucks, I need a new one)
19:14.17brlcadsystem, not the software
19:14.44MaloeranAhh!
19:14.47MaloeranWhat happened?
19:15.05``Erikcaught some grass, slid, hit a tree, rolled
19:15.20MaloeranThis is horrible.
19:15.26``Erikno shit?
19:15.46brlcadeek
19:16.12MaloeranI really wasn't aware of that. I hope you aren't too damaged?...
19:16.45``Erikum, some bruises, stretched ligamints in my rib cage, banged up my elbow, and a minor concussion
19:16.56brlcadthat sucks
19:17.07``Erikyeah, need another car :/
19:17.07brlcadwhen was that?
19:17.10MaloeranOuch, ouch..
19:17.13``Eriksaturday afternoon
19:17.18brlcaddamn
19:17.47MaloeranWere you speeding at the time?
19:18.41``Erikdidn't think I was, but the cops seem to think I was a tiny bit over the limit
19:19.13MaloeranCould that be a problem for the car insurance?
19:19.32``Erikso far, no? *shrug* I'm crossing my fingers and hoping I'll have a check on friday
19:20.42MaloeranI'm really sorry to hear this...
19:21.08MaloeranAt least you came out of it mostly intact, it seems
19:23.11MaloeranDid you lose consciousness or just felt dizzy?..
19:23.20``Erikneither
19:23.35``Erikrolled it, got out through the sunroof and was walking around
19:23.59MaloeranAh, so it was quite minor, right
19:24.46Maloeran( the concussion that is )
19:37.12dtidrow_workbanged your head good, in other words?
19:37.14MaloeranWere air bags helpful? I have often wondered how effective these cushions were
19:37.14dtidrow_workwell, I suspect they don't do much in a rollover
19:37.15MaloeranThey could prevent strain on the upper back, as the torso and head are being thrown around
19:39.55``ErikI d'no, I hit a tree and rolled it and came out pretty decent, so I guess between the seat belt and airbag that deployed *shrug*
19:40.32MaloeranYes, it really could have been worse
19:42.43MaloeranI wish you a good recovery, please take care of yourself Erik
19:43.22``Erikheh, I'm trying to not get dead :) I think I came out better than you did with your bike accident
19:43.29``Erikthose bikes are horrible death traps ;) *duck*
19:44.34Maloeran:) Yes that's probably true, bicycles only get dangerous when there are motorized vehicules around
19:44.57``ErikI d'no, I've heard about people taking tumbles on trails and stuff
19:45.24mcarpplus those derned helmets can muss yer hair
19:45.45``Erikmeh, programmers hair is always mussed up
19:46.15mcarpwell sure but...thats beside the point of the inconvenience
19:46.31MaloeranI suppose so.  I once rammed fairly hard in a tree to avoid a child on roller blade who fell just in front of me, but that car door sure was worse
19:46.44mcarps/programmers/all computer nerds/
19:47.19``Erikdamn nonprogrammer computer nerds, trying to get into the programmer geek clique... :D
19:47.45mcarp<---15 years x86 assembly booya
19:47.59brlcadheh
19:47.59``Erikum, ok, so you're a masochist, too
19:48.00``Erik:)
19:48.06mcarpcorrect
19:48.33mcarpadd to that win32 usage :~
19:49.08``ErikI had an x86 15 yrs ago, but still used my commodores heavily
19:49.13mcarpbetter watch it, is that a mactel?
19:49.17``Erikno
19:49.20mcarplol
19:49.29``Erikon a dual g5 right now, have a g4 powerbook and g3 ibook at home
19:49.51mcarpto each his own
19:50.07``Erikbut I tend to do crunch work on freebsd boxes with many opteron chips pushing
19:50.38mcarphey, they're all computers i can live with it
19:50.51MaloeranThe g4 powerbook was somewhat poor, half the ray-tracing crunch of a Sempron 1.8ghz laptop
19:51.14mcarpbummer
19:51.27``Erikif you blow the pipeline and stall left and right, yeah... *cough* *cough*
19:51.29mcarpim using a sempron 2200 on a 1.5Ghz mb
19:51.48MaloeranLaptop or desktop?
19:51.53mcarpdesk
19:51.56mcarp(asus)
19:52.05MaloeranMmhm. Let's get you an upgrade soon :)
19:52.35mcarpdoubt it will matter much considering the non-graphicly intense requirements of brl-cad
19:52.36``Erikheh, pheer my 850mhz tbirt at home :)
19:52.51``Erikerm, mged and 'rt' are pretty graphically intense
19:52.56dtidrow_workheh
19:53.26mcarpmaybe when you get into 100s of 1000s of objects
19:53.37``Eriksmall geometries hehehe
19:53.46mcarpim doing ok on 2million faces in max
19:54.01mcarplags until cached, but otherwise not bad
19:56.20MaloeranYour galleon takes 200mb of RAM to ray-trace too, somewhat heavy
19:57.04mcarpits a good thing the capt of the roter lowe is not alive to hear you call his frigate a gallean or *slash slash*
19:57.47Maloeran:) Right right, frigate
19:57.48mcarpnow of course spanish galleons were about that size
19:59.14mcarpMaloeran: build me a perspective viewport flat shader
19:59.26``Erikhttp://www.pacific-tall-ships.com/Roterlo_files/Roterlo_1.htm   pheer
19:59.49mcarpaye
20:00.17mcarpthe site i got my drawings from misspelled roter-lowe to 'rotter-lowe'
20:00.37mcarpi was unable to google for images until i had nearly completed the model in its entirity :/
20:00.38``Erikhttp://www.historicships.com/TALLSHIPS/Mamoli/RoterLoweMV19.htm
20:00.44mcarpthis was...a slight inconvenience
20:01.19mcarpyeah that last image was the one i used for flag reference
20:01.43MaloeranQuite cice. I still prefer a 3d model to a wood model
20:01.47Maloerannice, even
20:01.58mcarpwood are quite satisfying to build tho
20:02.35mcarpit should be completely obvious that i made up my own (non-period) color scheme since i didnt have any images
20:03.13mcarphowever i would have done a few things differently had i had access to google images at the time
20:03.30mcarpand i totally ignore that in the drawins 'roter-lowe' was spelled correctly :?
20:03.32mcarp:/
20:04.16mcarpnote the tripple block/tackle loading on the fore and main stays
20:04.20mcarpmine are singles :/
20:05.31MaloeranOh... Well, still something that could easily be fixed if you desire so. It's a great model in any case
20:05.44mcarpperhaps
20:06.20mcarpi also found another interesting fact (language gap) roter lowe == "red lion"
20:07.13MaloeranThat explains the lion figure
20:07.16mcarpso you see, history of a particular subject is good to have
20:07.22mcarpindeed and that it is red
20:07.49mcarpall i had were black and white fuzzy line drawings
20:09.00MaloeranDon't worry about that :), it can be interesting to fill the missing pieces as you see them
20:09.18mcarpi almost wonder if the web site owner misspelled rotter-lowe to keep us from finding additional info :P
20:09.52mcarpwell as you know it began as a personal fulfilment project so yeah, it doesnt matter that mauch
20:09.54mcarpmuch
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20:10.34mcarpat least one thing is for sure, bitmaps are easy to switch out heh
20:12.18MaloeranEheh yes. I might try swapping a few textures once I get to worry about eye-candy
20:12.33mcarpMaloeran: build me a perspective viewport flat shader
20:12.50MaloeranIn BRL-CAD?
20:13.02mcarpbegin spam repeat 2,000,000
20:13.13mcarpof course
20:13.36MaloeranIt's a bit early for that, I'm supposed to integrate my stuff in there in January or so
20:13.53MaloeranUntil then, I can post crude screenshots :p  http://www.rayforce.net/galleon01.png
20:14.20mcarpthat wont do me anygood building csg :P
20:16.48mcarpwhew, you need some normal smoothing
20:18.17mcarphey, havent you downloaded the release version yet?
20:19.01MaloeranI did, not converted it yet. It's a bit low priority, I'm supposed to code and document a bunch of code for last friday
20:19.52mcarpah
20:38.07``Erikscrew smoothed normals, just add more triangles, once they hit the subpixel range, it's all good
20:38.07MaloeranNah. Screw triangles, use curved facets
20:38.07``Erikheh
20:38.07MaloeranTriangles are just a special case of curved facets
20:38.07``Erikand curved facets are a special case of b-splines, yadda yadda
20:38.08``Eriksomethin' about hyperdimensional manifolds, blah
20:38.08``Erikwhich, of course, are all just a coarse approximation of a particle render
20:38.10mcarpand hey, we're all just collections of harmonic bumps in the quantum strata
20:38.11``Erik"Today, a young man on acid realised that all matter is merely energy condensed to a slow vibration. That we are all one consciousness experiencing itself subjectively. There is no such thing as death, life is only a dream and we're the imagination of ourselves. Here's Tom with the weather."
20:38.11``Erik-billhicks
20:38.12mcarpgasp
20:38.13mcarpi suggested to my brother a few weeks ago that after his "death" his particular electro-chemical brain pattern might become manifest in some distant part of the universe
20:38.14mcarpthere was no reply
20:38.14MaloeranNeat, I think that's a more likely occurance than the existence of some god-guided after-life
20:38.14mcarpindeed mal
20:38.14mcarpaltho for those who feel they need to believe in such things, i suppose its a matter of syntax
20:39.31mcarpbbl
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23:59.38brlcadgah, damn opengl
Jeff Waugh - find it at freshmeat.net! Modified by Tim Riker to work with blootbot logs, split per channel, etc. irclog2html for #brlcad on 20060927

irclog2html for #brlcad on 20060927

00:12.50``Erikum, the irix box?
00:52.41Twingy"nmap -p1-100 74.92.144.217" plz
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01:12.37danfalckTwingy: can I ask you a question about getting gcam installed?
01:16.32danfalckTwingy: I asked too soon.  I think I know the answer to my earlier question.
01:18.42danfalckTwingy: I think I'm missing the *.h files for gcam
01:22.23Twingyk
01:22.31Twingyimpossible
01:22.44danfalckok
01:22.55danfalcklet me untar it again
01:24.14danfalckno *.h files in the tar file
01:25.40Twingyuh
01:25.50Twingynone?
01:25.53danfalcknone
01:26.00Twingyodd
01:26.08danfalckbut I think that I have all the dependencies set up now
01:26.21danfalckgtk+-2 etc...
01:26.50Twingyhow are you checking if you have headers
01:27.18danfalcklooking in the libgcode and libgui directories
01:27.32Twingytar -zxvf gcam_2006_09_23.tgz ?
01:28.09danfalckmaybe I have the wrong one
01:28.20danfalckgcam-1.0.0.tar.gz
01:28.24danfalckoh oh
01:29.19Twingyjust for that I'm going to make you nmap me
01:29.32danfalck?
01:30.21Twingy"nmap -p1-100 74.92.144.217"
01:30.47danfalckwhat's it do?  sorry ...
01:31.02Twingyscans me
01:31.22danfalcknmap -p1-100 74.92.144.217
01:34.05Twingyand?
01:34.18danfalcknothing showed up here
01:34.54danfalcklet me try it again
01:35.21Twingyyou're typing this in your terminal windows right?
01:35.40danfalckTwingy: from bash right?
01:35.46Twingyyah
01:35.53danfalckbash terminal
01:36.01danfalcklet me set it up
01:38.43danfalckok working now
01:39.06danfalckhere goes:
01:39.08danfalckStarting Nmap 4.10 ( http://www.insecure.org/nmap/ ) at 2006-09-26 18:38 PDT
01:39.08danfalckInteresting ports on 74-92-144-217-WashingtonDC.hfc.comcastbusiness.net (74.92.144.217):
01:39.08danfalckNot shown: 97 filtered ports
01:39.08danfalckPORT   STATE SERVICE
01:39.08danfalck22/tcp open  ssh
01:39.09danfalck53/tcp open  domain
01:39.11danfalck80/tcp open  http
01:39.13danfalckNmap finished: 1 IP address (1 host up) scanned in 16.418 seconds
01:39.18Twingyaha!
01:39.20Twingygood good
01:39.28Twingynow, nslookup js.cx
01:39.37danfalckand I found the right gcam file.  sorry about that
01:39.44danfalckok
01:40.06danfalckdan@ubuntu:~$ nslookup js.cx
01:40.06danfalckServer:         68.238.64.12
01:40.06danfalckAddress:        68.238.64.12#53
01:40.06danfalckNon-authoritative answer:
01:40.06danfalckName:   js.cx
01:40.07danfalckAddress: 74.92.144.217
01:40.43Twingysweet
01:40.48Twingynow http://www.js.cx
01:40.51Twingyanything pop up?
01:40.59Twingygcam.js.cx rather
01:41.10CIA-9BRL-CAD: 03lbutler * 10brlcad/src/tclscripts/mged/ (expand_comb_tree.tcl facetize_all_regions.tcl): removed debugging logging. added code comment.
01:42.17danfalckyes, it works
01:42.24Twingygood deal
01:42.25danfalckit gets to your "project page"
01:42.31TwingyI just upgraded to comcast at work
01:42.39Twingy6mb down, 768 up + static ip
01:43.23danfalckgcam page works
01:43.47Twingygreat
01:43.50Twingyokay, back to compiling
01:43.53danfalckI will install the right file, right after dinner.  Thanks
01:43.55danfalckbbl
01:47.50Twingysolar panels go up in 4 days
01:58.30danfalckTwingy: success with gcam!
01:59.56Twingymuch better
02:00.26danfalckyes
02:00.29danfalckthank you
02:00.44Twingyyea, well, it obviously a work in progress
02:00.50danfalckhey I see on your website that you like to melt aluminum.  
02:01.01Twingyyea
02:01.03danfalckI did that in my backyard some years ago too
02:01.13danfalckdon't breath the fumes
02:01.24TwingyI do it outside when its windy
02:01.29danfalckgood idea
02:01.37Twingyand I hold my breath when stoking it
02:01.49danfalckcan I import anything into gcam.  dxf?
02:02.01Twingyif I do this on a regular basis I'll use my respirator
02:02.07Twingynada
02:02.10danfalckok
02:02.14TwingyI'll explain why
02:02.44Twingygcam is an environment that is designed to restrict the user from inputing bogus commands
02:03.01Twingyyou could import a dxf sphere
02:03.05Twingyand bad things happen
02:03.39danfalckok
02:03.39Twingyplus dxf doesn't represent arcs
02:03.48Twingygcam is an engineering tool, not an art tool
02:04.24Twingydesigning curvy surfaces is nice and all, but serves little utility to me
02:04.53Twingyplus it's open source
02:05.02danfalckwell, I was thinking about plates with radius' or chamfers on the outside and pockets or bored holes in them
02:05.08Twingyso if it evolves (or devolves) into something else it's up to the community
02:05.12danfalckok
02:05.20Twingyyou can bevel holes
02:05.23danfalckare you running it on your mac?
02:05.27Twingythat's what the extrusion is for
02:05.30Twingyno, freebsd
02:05.33danfalckok
02:05.41Twingydoing something like this
02:05.42Twingy\
02:05.43Twingy<PROTECTED>
02:05.46Twingy<PROTECTED>
02:05.47Twingy<PROTECTED>
02:05.51Twingyis entirely possible
02:06.11danfalckcool. I will study the code and learn
02:06.18Twingyyou can also make a parabola
02:06.22Twingyfor a bowl
02:06.48Twingyrestrictions have not been implemented yet, so use it at your own risk
02:07.21danfalckI have the means for checking the code before using it - Axis
02:07.33danfalckor my backplot in Vectorcam
02:07.43danfalckor just read the gcode
02:07.51Twingymy primary focus is getting this toward a release
02:07.54danfalckwhich is always a good idea
02:08.04Twingyso use it, comment on it
02:08.18danfalckok I am testing it now
02:19.16Twingythe biggest thing left is having a folder where all the mill profiles and end mills are stored
02:19.30Twingyso users can hack a text file to make a new mill profile
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03:17.01danfalckTwingy: crashed after removing 2 lines in a row
03:21.59danfalckTwingy: create 4 lines, remove them one at a time starting with the 4th line
03:22.12danfalckwhen you reach #2 - crash
03:22.16danfalckseg fault
03:22.35danfalcksorry guys, this is not BRLCad info
03:23.58brlcadclose enough
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03:32.57danfalckbye
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19:41.57PrezKennedystupid itunes
21:19.30CIA-9BRL-CAD: 03lbutler * 10brlcad/src/tclscripts/mged/Makefile.am: Install the facetize_all_regions.tcl script
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Jeff Waugh - find it at freshmeat.net! Modified by Tim Riker to work with blootbot logs, split per channel, etc. irclog2html for #brlcad on 20060928

irclog2html for #brlcad on 20060928

01:00.10*** join/#brlcad DTRemenak (n=DTRemena@adsl-68-126-0-210.dsl.irvnca.pacbell.net)
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03:09.40MaloeranThat 1.7 million triangles frigate really kills the raytracing performance, with all its diagonal ropes through the scene. Very stressfull test for a raytracer... I would be interested in knowing how my 200mb of RAM use on this compares with ADRT
03:10.44MaloeranOr 400mb if I push the quality ( and performance ) high
03:19.04CIA-9BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/sh/ (footer.sh header.sh): add support for C++ and Objective-C/C++ to the mix
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11:54.20CIA-9BRL-CAD: 03d_rossberg * 10brlcad/BUGS: fixed rendering toyjeep.g on Windows bug (on 7/6/2006) by using a less rigorouse function to invert a 4x4 matrix in rt_bend_pipe_prep
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13:04.20MaloeranDoes anyone have a recommendation for the best reference for doxygen comments in the BRL-CAD code?
13:05.14MaloeranI noticed Lee working on libuu's doxygen documentation, though I'm not sure where that libuu is. Not much comes out on find
13:05.56MaloeranAh, or perhaps it was libbu
14:01.31MaloeranEh, Doxygen is confused about GCC's __attribute__()
14:22.54``ErikO.o
14:24.44MaloeranFeeling any better, Erik?
14:34.32``Eriknot much, heh
14:35.00Maloeran:/ Did you go through a x-ray scan just to make sure?
14:38.24``Erikyeah, several xrays and a catscan
14:38.50``Erikbtw, I think I may have an idea on why your code doesn't run so hot on g4/g5 ... gcc 4.0.0
14:39.20MaloeranOh hum, that's a possibility. The assembly looked very poor, as little as I know that arch
14:39.49MaloeranThe demo now loads the 1.7 million triangles frigate with caching, if you want
14:40.19``Erikyeah, been building for a few minutes
14:40.23``Erikit segfaults on my amd64
14:40.35``Erik#0  0x0000000801758c88 in stepComputeValue (step=0x522030) at ../../../RF/prepmodel.c:701
14:40.35``Erik701       step->linkcost[RF_EDGE_MAXZ] = WALK_LINKCOUNT_COST( step->linkcount[ RF_EDGE_MAXZ ] );
14:40.44MaloeranHum. Okay
14:41.34MaloeranI seriously need to speed up that prep eventually, it does a decent job but isn't fast at it
14:42.29MaloeranCould you  p step->linkcount[ RF_EDGE_MAXZ ]  on that segfault? It's rather curious
14:44.33MaloeranEven with low preparation quality, the 'prep' can eat up to 500mb ; if it takes minutes, I think you are swapping...
14:50.23brlcadsrc/lib*, there's a list of what each of the various libs do in HACKING and src/README
14:51.11MaloeranI was more looking for the best reference for the desired doxygen comment style, rather than a specific library
14:54.48``Erikit's consuming one whole cpu, 508.19m real, 719.54m virtual, and has been going for 22 minutes
14:54.55MaloeranThanks Erik, bug reproductible if I fill all malloc'ed memory with garbage
14:55.09``Erikmal: yet another linux vs restoftheworld type issue
14:55.28MaloeranWoah, it takes less than a minute on a good Athlon
14:56.10``ErikI got 1.3m r/s with the m1 a couple days ago
14:56.27``ErikI'm wondering if maybe it's caught in an infinite loop due to different rounding behaviors or something
14:56.33MaloeranI got 2.5-3.0m on my desktop, but the frigate is much more demanding
14:56.55MaloeranThat shouldn't happen, then again, I might have missed something in this new prep written from scratch
14:56.58``Erikoh, and *HUGE* stalls on some ops, heh
14:57.09``Erikbut I think it's a compiler problem more than anything else :/
14:57.20``Erikand stupid darwinports won't compile gcc42
14:58.01MaloeranYes, the dotproduct4 assembly code was loading all the values just before working on them, instead of scheduling a bit
14:58.30``Erikhm, 'real' memory dropped a bit and is creaping back up
14:58.33``Erikit must still be doing SOMETHING
14:58.36``Erikuh
14:58.38MaloeranAhah
14:58.42``Erikyou don't do something like realloc in that prep, do you?
14:59.04MaloeranVery rarely, but it will happen
14:59.08``Erikhrm
14:59.30``Erikit's horrendously expensive on the bsd family since phkmalloc and dmalloc work differently
14:59.32MaloeranI realloc the table of pages for pointer directories, for sectors/steps/nodes
14:59.37MaloeranI see.
15:00.20``Erikphkmalloc tries to keep things more secure from mmu smashes, so it tries to force memory to be contiguous on the wire, which means a realloc is an ugly naive alloc/copy/dealloc instead of dmalloc's page mangling
15:00.33MaloeranGah!
15:00.44``ErikMOST unix has a very very slow realloc
15:01.42``Erikbut mallocing more than you need is 'free', it won't actually hit wire until it's written to, so malloc 2g, use what you want, don't worry about it *shrug* :)
15:02.28MaloeranThen it's swapping around happily, hence why it takes 22 minutes instead of 40 seconds
15:02.56``Erikswap is totally unused right now
15:03.15MaloeranWhat is system doing?
15:03.21``ErikI d'no *shrug*
15:03.37``Erikyou're making system calls (wrapped via libc calls, I'm sure) that are expensive
15:04.04MaloeranThere are no system calls but malloc/free/realloc in there
15:04.19``Erikmalloc and free should be fast
15:04.21``Erikthere it is
15:04.24``Erikrealloc is dog slow
15:04.44MaloeranIt's really realloc? The one in mmDir* in mm.c ?
15:07.33``Erikhrm, in the raytrace porttion, 9.6% of the time is spent on one op... "cror" (but it's stalled pretty heavy)
15:08.16MaloeranIn the dot product again? :)
15:08.54``ErikgraphTraceDualOut line 635, the "if(dstdist<=0.0)", which looks like it has to do two sequential tests and then or the results before choosing to branch
15:09.37``Erikso to the machine, it looks like "if( dstdist<0.0 || dstdist==0.0 )", requiring both to get out of the pipeline, then feed back in for the or? *shrug*
15:09.52MaloeranThat's quite possible, weird chip you got
15:09.53``Erikvs if(!(dstdir>0.0)) which can be streamed
15:09.58``Erikit's risc *shrug*
15:10.12Maloerandstdist < 0.0 if you prefer, won't make a difference
15:10.32``ErikI'm kinda guessing based on what the little comment in shark says, heh
15:10.48MaloeranYes I remember
15:10.50``Erik14% of compute time is on that dstdis = _mathPlanePoint(tri->plane, dst) on 634
15:11.22``Erik'
15:11.24``Erikgheh
15:12.29MaloeranSo I suppose it finished prep'in in the end. Care to profile that part?..
15:12.48MaloeranI can't see what would take so long, as lazy as some of the code is
15:15.37MaloeranIf you do so, make sure to delete the cache or it will just load it
15:24.40``Eriksure, uh, I'll gzip the cache instead, heh...
15:24.55``Erikrtch ?
15:24.58MaloeranRight
15:25.13``Erik100 meg file, huh
15:25.55MaloeranI was aiming for a bit packed version earlier, I'll switch back to that later
15:26.19Maloeran( So if you need 13 bits to identify a sector, it will use that instead of 32 bits )
15:26.46``Erikinteresting, it starts very user based, and linearly ramps to very system based
15:27.21MaloeranAnything more precise on what's going on in system?
15:29.49``Erik"shandler" sounds familiar?
15:31.03MaloeranHum, no?
15:32.25``Erikonly 15.6 spend outside of mach_kernel
15:32.48``Erikthe biggest single symbol being vm_map_enter
15:33.02``Erikwhich kinda smells like lots of small alloc's
15:33.33``ErikO.O  holy forshizzle
15:33.56``Erikchunk->prev = (void *)&(mmList); is greviously expensive, if I'm reading this right
15:34.18MaloeranBut... how?
15:34.27``Erikstw r0,12(r3)
15:35.24``Erikokie, readin that wrong...
15:35.48``Erikof the 3% of program time, that op was the big consumer there... still less than 3% total
15:36.07Maloeran:) I prefer that
15:53.44``Erik*shrug* comments and docs would allow other people to understand your stuff more readily and maybe make comments on possible concerns or bottlenecks that you'd otherwise spend a lot of time tracking
15:53.55``Erikespecially since your environment is pretty homogenous
15:54.31MaloeranI wanted to try Justin's fbsd box but it only has 256mb of ram
15:55.22``Erikmine only has 384, heh
15:55.39``Erikmy home one, that is
15:56.17MaloeranI just tried profiling in gprof, and it doesn't profile anything in shared libraries :p, so I profiled my main.c
15:56.45``Erikyou need to build profiling forms of the shared libraries
15:57.06``Erikuhmmm, on fbsd, you'd see like libc.so and libc_p.so where _p.so is for the profiling lib
15:57.25``ErikI'm too out of leenewx to remember there, heh
15:57.26MaloeranShared libraries were built with -pg as well, anything else?
15:58.47MaloeranAny sensitive results out of Sharp?
16:01.50Maloeran"Support for gprof profiling of shared libraries is available on 32-bit systems only."   What the...
16:02.20MaloeranSorry, nevermind that, specific to HP-Unix
16:02.22``Erikshark? I don't think I ran it right, so I'm rerunning it :/
16:06.12``ErikstepSampleSort is a bit pricey
16:06.56MaloeranLike 5% or 40%?
16:07.05``Erik22.6
16:07.31MaloeranOkay. That's one of the thing I have marked to fix, I'm more wondering about the time spent on "system"
16:08.27``EriksampleAddTri() is a tiny bit expensive, ...
16:09.30MaloeranYes... and I'm not even using these lists yet, planning ahead for improvements of the prep
16:10.28MaloeranCan you throw all the profiling text at me?
16:12.01``Erikuhmmmmm, I'm running another set with different time variables
16:35.39MaloeranSo 50% is spent outside the executable itself, that's... cute ;)
16:36.39``ErikI d'no if that's because it's a single thread on a dual proc machine, or if it's just not seeing the frame stack correctly when it samples, or if sdl throws threads, or what
16:39.42MaloeranThe model is built before SDL is initialized, and you mentionned the system share starts growing later on
16:40.06``Erikhm, part of sdl is initialized before main() iirc
16:40.20``Erikit immediately pops up an sdl icon in the doc
16:40.23``Erikbefore the window appears
16:40.24``Erikdock
16:41.17MaloeranRight I see
16:47.26MaloeranI think I would know how to build shared libraries for gprof'iling, except that everything goes though this libtool thing
16:48.33``Erikyeah, I'm not terribly keen on libtool, but dynamic libraries are different on every os :/
16:49.09``Erikbtw, I msg'd the url there because I can't msg here and I don't know how public you want that info... I'll delete it if you want
16:50.20MaloeranAh, nothing sensitive in there
16:53.49``Erikok, thandler is the 'trap handler' and shandler is the 'syscall handler', in the mach kernel (micro, so it's handled via messages and 'servers', not function calls)
16:54.33MaloeranTrap handler sounds like handling of page faults when running out of ram
16:54.53MaloeranSyscall handler... Growing the heap size? 25% of the processing time? Gez.
17:06.47``Erikhrm, dude, I have 2g of ram and I'm only using like 200m
17:06.53``Erikand I never touched swap
17:07.13``Eriknow the trap might be cache line related or something else *shrug* and itt might be system wide, not just applied to your application
17:09.17``ErikI just ran a program to allocate a gig in 1m chunks and write crap to every page... almost no system time consumed in that (16s user, 3s sys)
17:09.35``Erikno slowdown in it, so no swap hit
17:10.23``Erikabout 1.5g I start seeing swap hits
17:11.28MaloeranRight. I could be mistaken, but the trap handler handles page faults and I don't see what else could be causing faults..
17:13.59``Erikpage fault is just one kind of trap
17:16.26``Erikok, in the midst of the ugly, the syscall handler is 54% and the trap handler is 21.5%,
17:16.40``Erikthe trap that consumes most time looks to be "ml_set_interrupts_enabled"
17:17.07``Erikonly 1% of the time is vm_fault
17:17.28MaloeranI can't think of any other syscall being made but malloc() and friends
17:17.43``Erik"isync" is the big trap abuse
17:17.57``Erikcontext switches force traps and shit, too
17:19.21``Erikok, isync stops new ops from entering the pipeline and waits until the pipeline is empty, "This instruction is context synchronizing"
17:19.39``Erikfor OS memory management tasks, like changes in the mmu
17:23.22``Erik"large_and_huge_malloc" might be related, in mmAlloc under sampleAddTri
17:24.46Maloeran20-40k is "large and huge" ?
17:25.15``Erikbigger than a page *shrug* I d'no, heh, I'm looking through this stuff more or less lost...
17:25.18``Erik<-- doesn't know ppc asm :)
17:25.26Maloeran#define SAMPLE_TRIANGLES_PER_LIST (4096)  could be set to 200k or something *shrug*, to have fewer calls
17:51.38MaloeranErik, could one of OSX's "security feature" be to zero malloc() chunks or something? I'm running out of hypotheses
17:52.38``Erikmight be *shrug* I d'no
17:55.12Maloeran"The default malloc on OS X causes a large performance degradation relative to the default mallocs on Linux and Solaris."
17:55.16MaloeranGah.
17:56.42Maloeran50% slower, nothing of the scale we saw here
18:07.06``Erikinteresting, a significant portion of time looks like it's attribtued to handling l2 cache misses
18:09.45``Erikahhhhhhhhh
18:10.05``ErikmmAlloc() cooks up time in a kernel function called "Zero Fill"
18:10.15MaloeranAHH!!
18:10.26``Erikwhich'd explain cache thrashing
18:10.35Maloeran_That_ is the reason, I'm allocating a whole bunch and freeing, sometimes without even using the chunks
18:10.59``Eriklearn somethin' new every day
18:11.22MaloeranCan you fix that?
18:11.30MaloeranCan you make malloc() behave in a sane manner?
18:12.32``Erikgoogling for that now... and 'sane' is a phrase that can be argued against... :D quit abusing malloc? *duck*
18:12.37``Erikhttp://lists.apple.com/archives/Darwin-development/2003/Apr/msg00217.html mentions some
18:12.46MaloeranMaybe there are multiple memory managers on OSX, as there are multiple threading libraries on fbsd ( and the default one is horrible too )
18:13.17MaloeranWhy would an OS ever memset() malloc'ed chunks? I can do that myself I need it, that's absurd
18:13.28Maloeranif* I need it
18:13.49MaloeranThe segfault mentionned earlier was fixed too
18:13.56``Erikhttp://lists.apple.com/archives/Darwin-development/2003/Apr/msg00210.html   answers that, heh
18:14.01``Eriksecurity mechanism
18:14.11MaloeranAbsurd.
18:16.01``Erikhttp://developer.apple.com/tools/performance/optimizingwithsystemtrace.html   and search for "zero-fill"
18:17.25MaloeranSo I have to write my own full-featured memory manager because the OSX manager is too incompetent to care about performance
18:17.48``Erikwell, the converse argument is that the linux memory manager is too incompetent to care about security
18:17.52MaloeranThat also explains why even the m1a2 was taking so long to prep on your laptops, it's supposed to be a few seconds
18:18.26MaloeranIf a process puts sensitive stuff in RAM, it's the duty of _that_ process to mlock() the memory and clear it accordingly
18:18.44MaloeranDon't slow down the whole OS for a few chunks of ram that might possibly contain something sensitive
18:19.09``Erikheh
18:19.22``Erikin the land of incompetent coders... :)
18:19.32Maloeranmlock() and related functions exist for a good reason
18:19.45``Erikyes, as do calloc(), etc...
18:20.33MaloeranGrah, this is so absurd
18:20.58``Erikfreebsd does the same thing, apparently
18:21.04``Erikhttp://kerneltrap.org/node/72
18:22.55MaloeranSeriously, this makes no sense at all. There are POSIX functions to take care of storing sensitive information in RAM
18:23.16``Erik... and if people USED them, then os's wouldn't have to step up and cover
18:24.06MaloeranThis is a _very_ bad fix.  Fix the software, don't hack a slow and patchy solution in the OS
18:24.46``Erikheh, and it seems to be a hot issue in linux kernel development right now
18:25.23``Erik(and if the software is designed to break the os? malicious code exists :/ )
18:26.08MaloeranOkay. Do you have a full-featured and complete memory manager in BRL-CAD already?
18:26.22``Erikhttp://lists.apple.com/archives/darwin-development/2003/Apr/msg00227.html   has more
18:26.29``Erikyeah, in libbu
18:26.31``Erikum
18:26.52``Erikbut the behavior of "lots of allocs and deallocs" is gonna be slow if it's passed to the os...
18:27.02MaloeranSeriously, the OS could bzero() pages as the heap grows, but OSX seems to clear even reused pages ; malloc'ing without expanding the heap
18:27.30MaloeranNormally, malloc() only reaches the OS if the heap has to be extended. Otherwise, it stays entirely in user space
18:27.34MaloeranOn a sane and decent OS anyway
18:28.02``Erikerm, ... vm and wm are different, dude
18:29.13``Erik(heh, and this is exactly where compacting gc's shine)
18:29.45MaloeranChecking libbu, I only saw red-black tree stuff there last time
18:30.34``ErikI'm pretty sure the libbu memory management is just portable passthrough stuff, though
18:31.36``Erikstupid headache *grr*
18:32.00MaloeranI really don't feel like writing a memory manager to handle broken malloc() implementations, but if I must..
18:32.17``Erik<-- thinks it's less broken than linux's :(
18:33.03MaloeranSurely you agree that if software deals with sensitive information, there are robust and _efficient_ mechanisms to deal with this, instead of having every malloc() call being zero'ed?
18:33.28``Erikgiven the quality of 95% of coders writing 'real' applications, no. I don't.
18:33.34Maloeranmalloc()'ed memory is not supposed to be cleared, it's supposed to be fast
18:34.07``Erikhm, I've never thought of malloc as a fast operation *shrug* if you want fast, allocate a big honkin' heap and do it yourself in that...
18:34.33MaloeranClearing the new pages as the heap grows would have made a certain sense, but for every malloc call, this is highly absurd
18:34.48``Erik...
18:35.00``Erikyou cannot make that statement because of how mmu's work.
18:35.21``Erikyou can free 4k, and then "immediately" alloc 4k, and you are not guaranteed that you got the same 4k back
18:35.33``Erikyou coudl've gotten one of my pages, or a completely different page altogether
18:35.50MaloeranOf course not, but it's likely to be within the heap for the process address space
18:36.11``Erik... for the process address space, yes... but not the wired address space
18:36.33``Erikphysical memory doesn't line up to process memory, that's what the mmu does...
18:36.39MaloeranThe heap never shrinks, the OS doesn't know that the page is now unused
18:36.59``Erikerm, which heap? heh
18:37.27MaloeranThe heap of the process ; the memory manager is likely to reuse that page and you'll get what you had previously stored there, without ever making a syscall
18:37.28``Erikfree() is to mark a heap as unused so it can be culled...
18:37.43``Erikand it disassociates it from the wired page
18:37.45MaloeranSo the heap can shrink on OSX? It never does on Linux
18:38.56MaloeranThat seems to be a logical explanation as to why every malloc() call is zero'ed
18:40.27``Erikthe process heap should be able to shrink on every os :/
18:40.46``Eriknow the memory address of new allocations is up in the air, but *shrug*
18:42.04MaloeranYou can't shrink the heap on Linux. If it grows high and shrink, unused high pages will eventually be put on swap to make room for other processes, and just forgotten
18:42.15MaloeranThat design has its flaws too ( the swapping )
18:42.17*** join/#brlcad cadguy (n=butler@bz.bzflag.bz)
18:42.26``Erikheh, and eventually oom
18:42.56cadguyYo!  How is everyone?
18:43.00``Erik(might be why I've seen ugly oom's on linux, it's malloc is broken... O:-) )
18:43.18MaloeranGood afternoon Lee
18:43.35``Erikemail is sent, lee... subj "Sql"
18:43.36MaloeranBSD's malloc() seems less broken than OSX still, it clears new pages but not the content of every malloc() call
18:43.44cadguyHowdy Maloeran
18:44.06MaloeranJust having a long debate with Erik about why the raytracer's prep is so terribly slow on OSX
18:44.09``ErikosX only zerofills when the freshly allocated page is touched, as far as I can tell
18:45.26MaloeranNow reading libbu's memory manager, I suppose that's the solution to work around inefficient malloc implementations
18:45.27cadguyHmm.  How many pages are we allocating?  Lots?
18:45.40MaloeranLots of pages, which are often just unused and freed
18:45.57Maloeranmalloc() is quite fast on Linux as pages are never cleared
18:45.58cadguyYes, that's a notorious performance killer.
18:46.09cadguyThat's a security issue.
18:46.45MaloeranWhen dealing with sensitive information, processes can mlock() the memory, there are POSIX functions to take care of that
18:47.25MaloeranBut as Erik argued, a dirty and inefficient fix at the OS level seems to be required due to the amount of bad software out there... *shakes head*
18:47.42cadguyThe usual technique is to keep a buffer pool if you want to alloc/free a lot to keep the code easy.  Then allocate through your own buffer pool.
18:48.31``Erik*nod* allocate a slew of pages, keep 'free' and 'used' linked lists, when one is freed or allocated, just change which list it lives in
18:48.39cadguyYea.  Lots of lame code mucking around with priviledges.  Remember mlock() didn't appear until 4.4BSD.
18:48.41MaloeranRight. I'm checking libbu, but I won't hide that I'm used to deal with an efficient malloc implementation
18:49.13``Erikif you allocate with nothing in the free list, free more... if you're worried about memory consumption, free() some out of the free list when it reaches a threshhold
18:49.28``Eriks/efficient/insecure/ :)
18:49.51MaloeranYes yes, I got that to deal with many small chunks. I haven't got a full memory manager to deal with chunks of all sizes and shapes
18:49.52cadguyNo reason to hide.  Just be aware that there are space/time/security tradeoffs that different OS's make.
18:50.03``Erikmy bike goes 20kph and stays together, yours goes 30 and kicks the wheels off every 50km
18:50.05``Erik:D
18:50.52Maloeran:) Eh well, time to write a memory manager then!
18:51.24``Erik<-- thought that's what mm was supposed to be o.O :)
18:51.56MaloeranIt's not a full-blown memory manager, it has efficient handling of packed tiny chunks, balanced trees, etc.
18:52.47Maloeransince Linux's malloc() always performed decently for management of medium to large sized chunks
18:53.26cadguyIn general, any time you can avoid a system call, it is worth doing.
18:54.46MaloeranOn Linux, free() never shrinks the heap, so malloc() will always remain in user-space unless the heap has to grow. I realize it's quite different on OSX
18:55.36cadguyAnd different on solaris and other Unix's
19:07.54MaloeranThat model really is a challenge for any acceleration structure, the planned second 'prep' pass should improve things a bit... but mostly, ray bundles will
19:08.05MaloeranThat and threads
19:09.48``Erikoohhhhh, rfTraceRays() calls malloc, too
19:11.58MaloeranOnly if there are no already allocated 'job' struct in the list, nothing to worry about there
19:15.13``Erikthat dstdir=mathPlanePoint() line (634) is a major contributor to L2 cache misses (27.5%)
19:15.39``Eriksecond being line 582 "if(src[linkflags&RF_NODE_AXIS_MASK]<NODE(root)->plane)" at 6.6%
19:16.56MaloeranThe prototype had prefetch instructions for caching triangles before the actual tests, that should help
19:17.19``Erikmemory bandwidth looks like, um, around 200-300 MB/s read and 20-30MB/s write
19:17.32MaloeranYou know, I really like your profiler :)
19:17.50``Erikheh, me too, this thing is gnarly
19:18.06cadguyYou really should try to pick it up.
19:18.39cadguyWant me to talk with Mark?
19:19.30MaloeranThanks, just give me 33 hours to receive my first real pay check from Survice assuming the 30 days delay after the end of the month is respected
19:20.19``Erikyou got your travel expenses and per diem all sorted out, correct?
19:21.07CIA-9BRL-CAD: 03lbutler * 10brlcad/sh/gforge.sh: script for querying a gforge site
19:21.34MaloeranI had no per diem expenses in August, but sure
19:23.24*** join/#brlcad IriX64 (n=IriX64@bas3-sudbury98-1168052970.dsl.bell.ca)
19:23.38``Erikdude, if you ever do work related travel, the employer should set everything up and take care of all the (reasonable) expenses...
19:24.34``Erikit's chump change to them, a no brainer investment...
19:27.16MaloeranAh don't worry, I'll be quite fine. The 30 days delay for a monthly pay is just a bit annoying, after 2-3 months of unpaid vacation anyway ;)
19:27.41``ErikrtiBatchNsCallback() is your flat shadow-less shader?
19:27.53MaloeranSomewhat, yes
20:57.14CIA-9BRL-CAD: 03lbutler * 10brlcad/sh/gforge.sh: make script adaptable to host
21:13.00MaloeranErik, before I write a bunch of code, do you have Hoard handy to see if the memory manager does a better job?
21:13.25MaloeranIt might clear pages the BSD way even on OSX
22:43.50``Erikhoard? nope
23:16.54MaloeranOh well. Everything but sectors and steps are now allocated by sliced blocks, these chunks of variable size will have their own personal little memory manager
Jeff Waugh - find it at freshmeat.net! Modified by Tim Riker to work with blootbot logs, split per channel, etc. irclog2html for #brlcad on 20060929

irclog2html for #brlcad on 20060929

00:24.20*** join/#brlcad digitalfredy (n=digitalf@200.71.62.161)
02:10.52*** join/#brlcad danfalck (n=dan@pool-71-111-76-8.ptldor.dsl-w.verizon.net)
02:15.23danfalckTwingy: you around?
02:30.53Twingyyes
02:30.55Twingysec
02:31.08danfalckhi
02:31.18danfalckhow do you want bugs reported?
02:31.30danfalckI just opened a
02:31.33danfalcknew tool
02:31.38danfalckand seg faulted
02:32.50danfalckafter inserting a line
02:34.40Twingyfor now I'll want you to report directly to me since these are minor and can be quickly fixed
02:34.54TwingyI have made a number of updates over the last 2 days, let me get you the latest, got time?
02:35.06danfalckemail or irc?
02:35.09Twingyweb
02:35.20Twingysec
02:35.28danfalcksure
02:35.45danfalckgive me the web address this time, email is on another machine
02:36.19Twingysec
02:36.33Twingyalso
02:36.38Twingytell me what your download rate is
02:36.51danfalckdsl, I'm not sure
02:36.55Twingyno
02:36.57Twingyfrom me
02:37.00danfalckok
02:37.26danfalckis the 'download' url live now on your website?
02:38.53Twingyno
02:39.02danfalckok
02:39.56TwingyI made a raptor motor mount with gcam today
02:40.03danfalckcool
02:40.12danfalckon the Taig?
02:40.16Twingyyep
02:40.21Twingyat work
02:40.43danfalckraptor?
02:40.57Twingya heli
02:41.03danfalckoh
02:41.25Twingydone downloading?
02:41.37danfalckno, give me the url
02:43.31Twingygot the /msg ?
02:45.38Twingyyes no?
02:45.44danfalckgot it
02:45.53danfalck33-40 KB/s
02:46.00Twingyhum
02:46.11danfalckI'm on a DSL
02:46.13Twingyshould be higher
02:46.20TwingyI have 96kB upstream
02:46.39danfalckok, going to untar the file, compile, and try it out.
02:46.39Twingyanyway, compile and run
02:46.41danfalckthanks
02:46.50Twingyyah, then we'll step through your first bug
02:47.43TwingyI wonder if I should video tape the solar installation
02:50.44danfalckin the middle of 'make'
02:50.49Twingyk
02:51.00TwingyI'll fire mine up and we'll move through the same steps together
02:51.38danfalckonce things are the way that you want them, can I make a binary that others using Ubuntu 6.10 could run?
02:51.40Twingybtw, I'm thinking about offer my mill for remote use for a small fee
02:51.56Twingysure, that would be helpful
02:52.16danfalckwhich files would be transferable?  the gcam bin?
02:52.25Twingyeither that or the gcode
02:52.34Twingyor dxf
02:52.51danfalckI just know that there are a lot of guys using Ubuntu Dapper for EMC right now
02:53.00Twingyk
02:53.08TwingyI'm still using turbocnc
02:53.26danfalckyou ought to try out emc
02:53.42danfalckyou would probably really get into ti
02:53.43danfalckit
02:53.47Twingywhy sort of capability does it give me that turbocnc doesn't already?
02:53.53danfalcka lot \
02:53.54Twingy*what
02:54.03danfalckcutter comp for one
02:54.08Twingyexplain
02:54.40danfalckyou can write a tool path in gcode that uses a nominal center line for a particular diameter of tool
02:54.49danfalckif you use a different sized tool
02:55.04danfalckyou can put the diameter of the tool in a table
02:55.17danfalckand the control will compensate and cut the path correctly
02:55.25Twingygcam does that...
02:55.48Twingyand turbocnc does that as well
02:55.53Twingyso either way I'm covered
02:56.17danfalcksorry, didn't know they had it yet
02:56.22danfalckdo you enter the diameter values for you end mills?
02:56.28TwingyI don't want to use emc just because it looks like a fancy gui based program
02:56.37Twingyyes, that's the "Tool" block
02:56.42Twingywhen you create a project
02:56.48Twingy<PROTECTED>
02:57.06Twingyeventually I'll add a tab for it
02:57.20Twingyfor tool changing and feed over-ride
02:57.22danfalckI used emc in 1999 when the gui wasn't so good
02:57.29danfalckand it worked very well then
02:57.40TwingyI don't need a fancy g-code processor
02:57.53danfalckran 3 machines with it and made a lot of money doing engraving and milling
02:57.53Twingysomething that lets me jog, control velocity, acceleration, and interprets g-code
02:58.07danfalckall the gui stuff has been added on in the last 4 years.
02:58.10Twingy90% of turbocnc I don't use
02:58.21Twingyand probly 95% of emc I wouldn't use
02:58.25danfalckok
02:58.43danfalckI plan on redoing my Centroid control with emc in the future
02:58.45TwingyI restrict myself to the very fundamental g-codes
02:58.58Twingythat way it's guaranteed to work everywhere
02:59.00danfalckas well as some very large machines at work- kitamura mills
02:59.12danfalckemc has plc built in
02:59.15Twingyeven on a high school kids g-code processor that only does a few commands
02:59.21danfalcktool changers can be implemented
03:00.02Twingythat's all g-code
03:00.09Twingysupported by turbocnc...
03:00.12danfalckemc can control hexapods
03:00.23danfalckrotary axis
03:00.30Twingyturbocnc can do rotary...
03:00.33danfalckyou name it, it can be done
03:00.50TwingyI gather I'll really only care about emc when I buy a $100k+ machine
03:00.54Twingythat has all the bells and whistles
03:01.03danfalckit can output to true servoes using DA cards
03:01.11danfalckwell, maybe.
03:01.20Twingyk, let's move into gcam, getting late
03:01.26danfalckyou might someday get really interested in it
03:01.29danfalckok
03:01.37danfalckstill in 'make' stage
03:01.39danfalckhm
03:01.44Twingywhu?
03:01.48Twingyyou on a 386?
03:01.52danfalckthis one's taking longer than I remember
03:01.53danfalckno
03:01.57danfalck1.0 ghz amd
03:02.04Twingyshould compile in 10 seconds
03:02.35danfalckI see an error about missing automake-1.7 something
03:02.45danfalcki'll kill it and try again
03:02.46Twingykill autom4te.cache
03:02.56Twingyand autoreconf -vis && ./configure
03:03.19danfalckok
03:03.37danfalckrm the whole directory?
03:03.46danfalckautom4....
03:04.33Twingyrm -rf autom4te.cache
03:06.23TwingyI'm running gcam/turbocnc on a PIII-450 w/ 256MB at work
03:06.32Twingyruns great
03:07.13danfalck.deps/gcode_util.Plo' has modification time 3.5e+03 s in the future
03:07.15Twingyusing an AMD semrpon 1.4GHz in the garage
03:07.21danfalckrunning into warnings
03:07.26danfalckduring make
03:07.27Twingydon't worry about warning
03:09.06danfalckyeh this is weird.  it's taking way too long compared to the last one
03:09.30Twingyno problems here...
03:09.35danfalck/bin/sh /home/dan/CAM/gcam3/gcam/missing --run automake-1.7 --gnu  libgcode/Makefile
03:09.35danfalckcd .. && /bin/sh ./config.status libgcode/Makefile depfiles
03:09.35danfalckconfig.status: creating libgcode/Makefile
03:09.35danfalckconfig.status: executing depfiles commands
03:09.36danfalckmake[2]: Leaving directory `/home/dan/CAM/gcam3/gcam/libgcode'
03:09.36danfalckmake[2]: Entering directory `/home/dan/CAM/gcam3/gcam/libgcode'
03:09.38danfalckmake[2]: Warning: File `.deps/gcode_util.Plo' has modification time 3.3e+03 s in the future
03:09.49Twingyjust sitting there?
03:09.55Twingydo this
03:09.57Twingyrm -rf .deps
03:10.01danfalcklooks like it's in a loop
03:10.04danfalckok will do
03:10.19danfalckdid it
03:10.23danfalckwhat next/
03:10.26danfalck?
03:10.39Twingy24s to compile on AMD64 2.2Ghz over nfs
03:10.45danfalckthrow away the cache directory
03:10.45Twingyautoreconf -vis
03:10.49Twingyyea
03:10.56Twingy./configure
03:10.57Twingymake
03:14.27Twingyworking?
03:14.36danfalcktrying something
03:21.45danfalcksorry, still problems
03:21.56danfalcktried automake 1.8
03:22.01danfalckand got errors
03:22.04danfalckwent back to 1.7
03:22.10danfalckdifferent errors
03:23.12Twingyk
03:23.29TwingyI'm using 1.9.6
03:23.34Twingyyou should get 1.9 automake
03:23.39danfalckok will do
03:23.49Twingyand autoconf 259
03:24.24danfalckgot 2.59
03:24.34danfalckdoing 1.9 now
03:24.56Twingyk
03:25.13danfalckusing synaptic.  a lot of times it's not very up to date and I have to go get the source
03:25.25danfalckwe'll see how it does
03:26.20Twingyk, keep me posted
03:26.37danfalckok. I'll work through it and get back with you tommorrow
03:27.12Twingym'kay...
03:31.34danfalckcan make get screwed up with the time that the file was created?
03:31.46danfalckit keeps saying the file was created in the future
03:31.54danfalckyou're on the east coast right?
03:32.09danfalckg directory `/home/dan/CAM/gcam3/gcam/libgcode'
03:32.09danfalckmake[2]: Entering directory `/home/dan/CAM/gcam3/gcam/libgcode'
03:32.10danfalckmake[2]: Warning: File `.deps/gcode_util.Plo' has modification time 1.9e+03 s in the future
03:33.16Maloerantouch the file(s) or modify it
03:33.44danfalckthanks
03:39.05danfalckthat was it
03:39.12danfalcktimestamp problem
03:39.36danfalckcompiled and gcam works now
03:45.05Twingyk
03:45.09Twingyready to step through?
03:45.19danfalckyes I've been playing with it
03:45.27danfalckremoving lines doesn't crash it now
03:46.39danfalckdo you want to do the private msg thing for  a short tutorial?
03:46.52danfalckor does it matter here?
03:47.14Twingyhere is fine
03:47.30danfalckok, I start by creating a new project
03:47.33Twingyyep
03:47.36danfalckinsert a sketch
03:47.42Twingyafter a tool
03:47.50danfalckok after the tool
03:47.56danfalckyep got it
03:48.01Twingyotherwise the sketch doesn't know what tool
03:48.08danfalckthen start inserting lines and arcs
03:48.13Twingyyes
03:48.28danfalckwhoops, just seg faulted
03:48.31Twingyinsert lines and arcs into the extrusion to give it depth
03:48.39Twingycan you repeat?
03:48.54danfalckok, I inserted a tool
03:48.59danfalckinserted sketch
03:49.05danfalckinserted 8 lines
03:49.05Twingya second tool?
03:49.11danfalckremoved 8 lines
03:49.19danfalckmoved cursor up to sketch
03:49.31danfalcktried to insert another line and it seg faulted
03:49.37Twingytesting
03:49.37danfalckI will open it again
03:49.57danfalckcreating project
03:50.06danfalcktool change is in there automatically
03:50.15danfalckinserting sketch
03:50.43TwingyI did insert sketch, insert 8 lines, remove 8 lines, remove sketch, no crash
03:50.44danfalckinsert line
03:50.49danfalckinsert line
03:50.53danfalckremoved them both
03:50.58danfalcktried to insert line
03:51.00danfalckcrash
03:51.08Twingywhat was selected when inserting the line
03:51.21danfalckI'll try again
03:51.35danfalcksorry didn't catch what was selected
03:51.41danfalckwill watch more carefully
03:52.51danfalckok, I think I know what happened
03:53.03danfalcknothing was selected when I tried to insert the line
03:53.09danfalcklet me try again
03:53.12Twingyk
03:53.21danfalckyes that's it
03:53.34danfalckif nothing is selected and you try to insert it crashes
03:53.39MaloeranYou should run it in gdb to have a backtrace at least
03:53.51Twingyyep
03:53.53Twingyjust noticed that
03:54.00TwingyI'll fix that
03:54.06danfalckok
03:54.12Twingysomething should always be selected
03:54.13danfalckI'll be more careful now
03:54.26Twingyremove needs to select something after it removes
03:55.37danfalckhow about adding this:  when completing a line segment, instead of having to click on the Update parameters button, let 'return' also update the line
03:56.01danfalcknot bad, but convenient
03:56.04Twingyyea, bunch more gui code
03:56.12TwingyI'd rather get rid of the button
03:56.19Twingyand make each widget event update
03:56.20danfalckyep
03:56.25Twingybut that doubles gui code
03:57.19Twingyhere's something for you to try
03:57.25Twingymake a bowl
03:57.35danfalckok, can I load the sample
03:57.39Twingyno
03:57.46danfalckdarn
03:57.48Twingysee if you can figure it out
03:58.40MaloeranDo you provide a 3d view of the result?
03:59.00Twingyyes
03:59.09Maloeran*nods* Nice
03:59.21danfalckI can get top and side views, but haven't found the iso view
03:59.32Twingyif you click on the sketch
03:59.41Twingyuse the right mouse button to rotate
03:59.58Twingyyou'll see it in 3d if you have extrusions applied
04:00.06danfalckok now I see it
04:00.24TwingyRender is currently broken
04:00.33Twingyso it'll give you wrong results
04:02.16Twingyonce bore, bolt holes, and bezier get in there it should prove to be quite powerful
04:05.06Twingyok, I think I can fix remove now
04:05.54danfalckok, had to cheat , but I see how you did the bowl....
04:06.06danfalckarc inserted after extrusion
04:06.17danfalckthen arc inserted below that
04:07.00danfalcki like the extrusion resolution feature
04:08.17Twingygood
04:08.44TwingyI think people will find that modeling with extrusions is quite powerful
04:09.25danfalckthat is very handy
04:09.49Twingytried generating g-code yet?
04:10.09danfalckI have previously, with no problem
04:10.14Twingyk
04:10.16danfalcklet me do it with this bowl
04:10.49Twingyoh heh, I forgot to fix the bowl
04:11.21danfalcklooks ok
04:11.39Twingyit's totally wrong
04:11.46Twingyit doesn't look like a bowl to me
04:11.54danfalckjust need to have some way of setting up safety blocks  and other machine specific code
04:12.04MaloeranGoing to build your own aluminium bowls anytime soon? :)
04:12.07danfalckI have a bowl here  : )
04:12.08Twingysafety blocks?
04:12.22danfalckG90 G17 G49 etc...
04:12.29Twingyfor what purpose
04:12.33danfalckcode that resets machine, just in case....
04:13.05danfalcksay you ran you machine in MDI mode, while setting up the part and you left something dangling out there such as a G91 incrementa command
04:13.16danfalckit could save you from a physical crash
04:13.30danfalckincremental / incrementa
04:13.37TwingyI don't do incremental
04:13.43Twingyand that's what the render is for
04:13.45Twingyif you see something bogus
04:13.50Twingyyou fix it before getting to the machine
04:13.59Twingyif you see your end mill crashing 5 feet below the table
04:14.01Twingyyou don't run it
04:14.01danfalckI don't either , but being able to taylor the code to the machine is good practice in industry
04:14.15Twingythere is a "Code" block
04:14.21TwingyI don't have it exposed right now
04:14.27danfalckok
04:14.33Twingyyou can insert those at your own risk
04:14.55danfalckto me a good text editor for the g-code is worth a lot
04:14.58Twingywhat are the params on your extrusion arc
04:15.00Twingyfor the bowl
04:15.28danfalckextrusion arc is at X 0, Y0
04:15.32danfalckRadius .5
04:15.40danfalckstart angle 180
04:15.45danfalcksweep -90
04:15.58Twingyeh
04:16.04danfalckother arc is at position x 1 y 1
04:16.06Twingyupside down bowl?
04:16.09danfalckradius
04:16.11danfalckyep
04:16.18Twingyoh heh
04:16.22danfalckI was just thrashing around
04:16.23Twingythat should be:
04:16.32danfalckit's my upside down cnc router
04:16.47danfalcktipped the bowl over
04:16.59Twingy0, 0, 0.5, 0, -90
04:17.04Twingyif you want the fixed bowl
04:17.13danfalckthat fixed it ;)
04:17.23Twingyheh
04:17.31TwingyI want to build a larger mill in gcam
04:17.35Twingyusing my taig
04:17.38Twingy2x the size
04:17.56danfalckI could sell you mine , but shipping would be expensive
04:17.59Twingybroken up in many parts
04:18.10Twingyno, I want people making their own mills
04:18.14Twingystart with a taig
04:18.20Twingyand build a super precise monster mill
04:18.41danfalckI used to really be into that - melting my own aluminum , making the lathe
04:19.03danfalckbut then people wanted me to make other parts for them for money
04:19.05TwingyI need to buy magnesium
04:19.23TwingyI haven't gotten to the part where people will pay me for parts yet
04:19.38TwingyI would like to do that in spare time
04:20.23Twingyin the mean time I'll try and sell some rocket nozzles
04:21.07danfalckthe purchase and modification of the tools/toys can be addictive
04:21.14danfalckmy garage is full of them
04:21.21Twingythat's good so long as it serves a utility
04:21.46TwingyI am missing 2 tools
04:21.56Twingya 24" or 36" lathe, and a band saw
04:22.14Twingythe band saw I can afford relatively soon
04:22.41danfalckok turned the bowl right side up
04:22.53TwingyI am going to buy a sliding table for my 3/4 HP drill press and use it to plane with a 1/2" end mill
04:23.03MaloeranYou two need to move next to each other ;), or in a neighbourhood of aluminium melters
04:23.11danfalckextrusion arc is now: X .5 Y 0 R .5 Start angle 270 Sweep 90
04:23.28Twingy0, 0, 0.5, 0, -90
04:23.31Twingyworks too
04:24.17TwingyI'm not going to buy a 1 ton mill just for planing
04:24.21danfalckTwingy: are you a brlcad developer?
04:24.25Twingyerr 1/2 ton mill
04:24.31Twingydanfalck, used to be
04:24.42TwingyI do robots now
04:24.47danfalckcool
04:25.03danfalckdo you program for a living?
04:25.18Twingyused to, now it's only half of what I do
04:25.31danfalckdo you do robotics at work?
04:25.35Twingyyah
04:25.38danfalcknice
04:25.50danfalckautomation for industry?
04:26.11Twingysurveillance type stuff
04:26.23MaloeranOr autonomous shooting targets on wheels, I thought
04:26.39danfalckok
04:26.40Twingythat too
04:27.17Twingywhatever is fun
04:27.20danfalckI do tooling design and some machine design
04:27.33Twingywhen this stuff gets boring in a few years I'll move into biology or chem
04:27.50danfalckrobotics boring?  
04:27.53danfalcknever
04:28.16TwingyI don't like to stick in a field once I hit the point of diminish returns
04:28.31Twingythings become too predictable
04:28.47Twingywhen I wake up and know what I'll be doing 1 year from now it's time to find a new job
04:30.03Twingythe only difficult part with that is having to 'prove' yourself to the new people you work with
04:30.24Twingypeople sorta look at you like you're useless for the first few weeks
04:30.38Twingysomething to expect when moving around alot
04:30.39MaloeranNo pronounced interest in raytracing hardware design yet? ;) Lee seemed interested, and Survice surprisingly offered backing on this crazy project
04:31.09TwingyMaloeran, I am interested in lots of things, ray-tracing hardware included, but list my interested in order of priority
04:31.34MaloeranRight, and I guess it isn't too close to the top
04:31.36Twingyray-tracing is a communications medium, it puts pixels on the screen
04:31.50TwingyI know what I'll be doing in 5 years from now if I continue with ray-tracing
04:31.59Twingynot interested in that rat-race
04:32.10danfalckTwingy: could I try to DCC a file to you?  (not sure if I can get through my network)
04:32.13Twingybottom line is it puts colored pixels on my screen
04:32.15danfalckscreenshot
04:32.23Twingypost it on a web server
04:32.27danfalckok
04:33.35TwingyMaloeran, I'm a bit of a cynic when it comes to work
04:33.50TwingyMaloeran, I have no real need for ray-tracing for my personal objectives atm
04:34.22TwingyI do have a need to build parts though
04:34.29Twingyso now I do that at work
04:34.57TwingyI may get to a point where I need to do fluid simulations and hop over to CISD for a while
04:35.31MaloeranAnd no need to do radar signatures or anything else that would involve ray-tracing? ;) All right, understood
04:35.44Twingynot at the moment, no
04:36.19Twingybottom line is it doesn't accomplish anything I want done right now
04:38.00TwingyI think remove is fixed, testing
04:38.10MaloeranThe way this is going, the most interested people are Kutulu and a norwegian programmer. I suppose that could work even on the internet
04:38.27Twingyof course it can
04:38.43Twingyremember, when you are done your ray-tracing phase, I want to work with you on a project
04:39.29MaloeranRight. That's something I'm quite interested to as well
04:39.43MaloeranI just never explored hardware design before so it has a certain appeal
04:41.24Twingytake notes on the epistemological patterns you recognize during the next several years
04:41.40Twingyhardware is part 2 of the project
04:42.37danfalckTwingy: http://www.2dadventure.com/ags/dan's_screenshot_092806.png
04:42.45danfalcksimple, but ther it is
04:42.55danfalckthere
04:43.37Twingylittle outside your workspace no?
04:44.09danfalckyep a little large
04:44.13danfalcksorry
04:44.40TwingyI'll fix that
04:44.55Twingyafter I get preferences menu working
04:50.06Twingytomorrow I hope to have bolt holes done
04:51.11danfalckI need to do some reading.  I'll chat with you later.  thanks
04:51.21Twingyk, thank you
04:55.52Twingyremove is fixed
05:20.17danfalckgood night
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21:20.47archivista bit like caches, get it wrong and they slow you down
21:22.08MaloeranOr drive you into subtle and difficult to track memory corruption somewhere
21:24.28archivistI did a map program years ago in turbo pascal, cached the map in blocks, 64 needed accross the page but could only fit 63 in memory so EVERY block/line was a cache fail
21:25.44MaloeranMmhm, sounds like fun too
21:27.52archivistone learns to grab enough space after that, re organising the map data didnt help either
21:28.49archivistthis is way back in 80286 days or maybe earlier
21:29.54MaloeranNeat. I never really knew anything prior to 80386
21:31.23archivistit drew a circular profile of a section of the map to check line of sight for radio work
21:33.25MaloeranMay I ask if you are involved in brl-cad or an user of the software?
21:34.38archivistwill be a user when a few things get done
21:35.47archivisteg when its a solidworks killer and as easy to use
22:10.29MaloeranErik, seems a full-featured memory manager on top of malloc for medium-large chunks improves performance even on Linux
22:11.07MaloeranI expect the gain to be much more dramatic on platforms with an overzealous free() like OSX
22:15.06MaloeranHow portable are brk()/sbrk()? It's still relying on malloc() under the hood
22:54.26Twingywent up on the roof twice today, the anchor bolt and chain are up and the pvc conduits are cut
22:58.26Twingytwo of the purchases I made today were $6.66 and $11.11
23:02.16Twingynot gonna go for -10,000?
23:02.28MaloeranI could try but I don't think they'll let me :)
23:02.39Twingydo you get an overdraft charge?
23:03.00MaloeranUnsure what overdraft means, but there are interests of course
23:03.05Twingybank of america charges you $30 if you go below $0.00
23:03.16Twingyfor every day I think
23:03.39``Erikmal: performance gain by customizing memory management is a classic angle...
23:03.40MaloeranEh no, I can go down to -5000CAD without problems but interests to pay
23:04.06MaloeranI'm aware of that for tiny packed chunks, Erik, I didn't think I could gain anything from managing huge chunks of variable and random sizes
23:04.35``Erikyour pattern is extremely rapid... and in general, malloc and free are not cheap operations :)
23:05.34MaloeranAnyhow, I gained about 7% of preparation time on Linux. That'll probably be in the hundred percents on the OSX malloc thing
23:08.51MaloeranI don't suppose it would be acceptable for me to play with brk()/sbrk() directly, unfortunate
23:51.40``Eriksbrk and brk are, uh, old school... modern implementations are hacks on normal malloc...
23:53.05MaloeranOld school? It's either growing the heap or using mmap, not many other ways to allocate memory
23:53.48``Eriksbrk and brk are assuming the notions of segment based memory
23:53.54``Erikwe all use paged memory these days...
23:54.05``Erikthings are different, dude... linux will catch up some day ;)
23:54.45``Erik(bear in mind... linux is mostly designed around 80's low end ideology)
23:55.14MaloeranLinearly growing the address space by brk() is usually quite reasonable, for most needs
23:56.04``Erikgrowing address space is reasonable... linearly via brk() symantics? that's, uh... obsolete.
23:56.57MaloeranOtherwise, you can allocate pages by mmap() wherever you want in the address space, I suppose that can be handy to avoid synchronisation when you got many cores around
23:58.10``Erikdude... mmu's changed a lot. :(
23:58.51MaloeranMaybe I'm outdated, the last time I wrote some kind of OS was on a 486
23:59.11MaloeranI read Linux memory manager later on, but you claim that's outdated too
23:59.31``Erik486 had a real mmu and could do full-on paged access
23:59.52MaloeranIndeed
Jeff Waugh - find it at freshmeat.net! Modified by Tim Riker to work with blootbot logs, split per channel, etc. irclog2html for #brlcad on 20060930

irclog2html for #brlcad on 20060930

00:01.22``ErikI would recommend procuring a non-linux machine... be it private procurement, dual boot on existing hw, or convincing the company to supply you...
00:01.56``Erikgiven your interest in shark, I'd ask the company about shipping you a g[45] based mac...
00:02.01MaloeranFreeBSD then? That'll install on the desktop
00:02.06MaloeranOr OSX *shivers*
00:02.43``Erikin your dicussions with the company... I use a dual g5 osX tiger tower as my daily machine...
00:03.02``Erikand I'm the one on the hook to tell arl "aye" or "nay" on your progress
00:03.21``Erikso with that argument, you might be able to get a free dual g5 tower out of the company...
00:03.22``Erik:)
00:03.43MaloeranUnderstood :)
00:04.09``Erikheh, don't be scared of me :)
00:04.26MaloeranI don't really see how G4/G5 hardware could be a significant target though, I understand about the OSX part
00:04.27``ErikI mean, I'm installing X on my dual opteron... :)
00:04.48``Erikerm
00:04.50``Erikquad, rather
00:05.02``ErikI'm just noting what I have on my desk
00:05.13``Erikand, uh, it happens to have better support for profiling... O:-)
00:06.32``Erik(also bear in mind... company $'s are on a far different scale than you&me dollars...)
00:06.34MaloeranTrue, I needed a full memory manager anyway. I'm presently hesitating about the way to priotirize lower blocks in order to allow blocks to be freed when memory use drops
00:07.31``Erikpersonally, I believe that: the greater variety of hw and os you have available; the better software you are able to produce.
00:08.09``Erikif you want, either lee or myself will talk to the company to ensure that you are adequately equiped
00:08.50MaloeranThanks but don't bother them. The pay is quite enough, once I receive it anyway
00:09.17``Erik...
00:09.23``Erikdude, they could send you half a dozen machines without blinking...
00:12.15MaloeranI don't need that though. I would be very satisfied with just the pay to acquire what I need, really
00:14.08MaloeranAny thoughts on priotirizing memory blocks to allow some to be freed? I just aimed for a "best fit" allocation, but memory use then obviously remains high after use
00:14.34``Erikit's a topic of "OS" research...
00:14.53``Erika guess at lru or mru would probably be "adequate"
00:21.51Maloeranrealloc() does not garantee to preserve data in place if you shrink, which I often found annoying ; fortunately that one does
01:01.13``Erikrealloc doesn't guarantee to preserve data in place period.
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03:47.02Twingyhi dan
03:51.54danfalckTwingy: hi
03:52.04Twingyoh, hi dan
03:52.14TwingyI just finished bolt holes
03:52.17danfalckcool
03:52.30TwingyI am going to add Duplicate on Sunday
03:52.32danfalckI did a bolt hole calculator in python for my stuff here
03:52.41Twingyand Rotation angle into Sketch
03:52.43danfalcktkinter gui
03:53.05TwingyBolt Hole goes in a Sketch
03:53.19Twingyso you can have your extrusion applied to each hole
03:53.26Twingyi.e. give each on a taper
03:53.55Twingyor a recess to do flush mounting
03:54.05danfalckcan you output drilling canned cycles ie G81
03:54.16Twingyis that pecking?
03:54.25danfalckjust straight drilling
03:54.36danfalckpecking is G82
03:54.54Twingyerm
03:54.59Twingynot sure what 81 does for you
03:55.15danfalckif you have big machine, it will do it
03:55.16Twingyspecify hole locations for drilling
03:55.23Twingydo what?
03:55.38Twingygrab a drill bit?
03:55.45danfalckdrill without pecking, depends on material, coolant etc
03:55.55TwingyI just mill the holes
03:56.56Twingywelp, got to get to bed for solar installation tomorrow
03:57.03Twingynight
03:57.05danfalcktalk to you later
03:57.07danfalckhave fun
15:43.56MaloeranHey Erik, please share the results if you try the new prep on OSX, I would be interested to know if the memory manager fixed the slowness
16:01.06MaloeranIt's 3.5 seconds on the M1 here, I should be able to get that to about 2 seconds
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19:29.49``Erikhum, on my 1.25 g4 lappie, the prep took 36.6 seconds with the latest code, mal
19:56.33MaloeranGah.
19:56.57MaloeranAnd that's on the M1 model? *grumbles*
19:58.28MaloeranWas it an improvement in any way at least?... Do you think you can put up any new figures on where the time is being spent? This is puzzling
20:02.41MaloeranI guess the assumption of an overzealous free() that releases pages constantly, just to allocate them again which require zero'ing them, was wrong
20:03.58MaloeranMy 1.8ghz Sempron takes 5 seconds
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Jeff Waugh - find it at freshmeat.net! Modified by Tim Riker to work with blootbot logs, split per channel, etc. irclog2html for #brlcad on 20061001

irclog2html for #brlcad on 20061001

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04:07.24lividhello
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Jeff Waugh - find it at freshmeat.net! Modified by Tim Riker to work with blootbot logs, split per channel, etc. irclog2html for #brlcad on 20061002

irclog2html for #brlcad on 20061002

00:04.45*** join/#brlcad livid (n=livid@c-71-193-197-76.hsd1.or.comcast.net)
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23:45.48jessiI feel foolish, and need help installing brlcad on linux :'(
23:46.08dtidrow_workshould be a piece of cake
23:47.07jessiWell, I dont know were to CD to. :/
23:47.16Maloeran./configure --prefix=/usr && make && make install  ?
23:47.30jessijust type that in without cding anything?
23:47.51MaloeranType that from the brlcad-something directly after unpacking the archive
23:47.57dtidrow_workI take it you untarred the tarball already?
23:48.06jessiYes
23:48.26MaloeranThen type that from the newly created brlcad-* directory
23:48.28dtidrow_workeg. 'tar xvjf brlcad-7.8.2.tar.bz2' - will create a 'brlcad-7.8.2 directory
23:49.17dtidrow_workso just cd into that, and run './configure'
23:49.42dtidrow_workthen 'make' once cinfigure is finished
23:49.56dtidrow_workconfigure (damn fingers....)
23:51.24MaloeranSome distributions don't put /usr/local stuff in default paths, hence why I suggested --prefix
23:52.03dtidrow_workah - ./configure worked fine for me on FC4  :-)
23:52.26jessiI am on ubuntu :/
23:52.53MaloeranOuch, ouch. I think you'll have serious problems compiling anything without installing dozens of "developper" package
23:53.04dtidrow_workhaven't had a chance to work with it yet, though I may stick it on my work laptop soon
23:53.05jessiI installed those
23:53.34jessiI would rather be using BSD, but I have a ton of files and dont want to lose them.
23:53.44jessiand too many to conventionally save onto disks
23:55.15jessiOh, I have been tricked. D:
23:55.34jessiI had to extract one file, then another from that file to get some of the make stuff.
23:59.07jessiThanks a ton. <3
Jeff Waugh - find it at freshmeat.net! Modified by Tim Riker to work with blootbot logs, split per channel, etc. irclog2html for #brlcad on 20061003

irclog2html for #brlcad on 20061003

02:41.47*** join/#brlcad LibertyTrooper (n=LibertyT@wsip-24-234-123-169.lv.lv.cox.net)
02:41.58LibertyTrooperHello
02:42.03LibertyTrooperAnyone home?
02:44.08TwingyJeep Liberty, Isuzu Trooper?
02:44.27LibertyTrooperLibertarian in a Honda
02:45.09LibertyTrooperActually, I have a password program that I also use to generate forum nick's.
02:45.16LibertyTrooperAnd this is what it came up with.
02:46.00LibertyTrooperAre you familiar with running BRLCad on OSX?
02:57.39brlcadseveral are
02:57.53brlcadbest to just ask your real question :)
02:59.09LibertyTrooperWell... I cannot get mged to run at all.
03:00.31brlcadif you run /usr/brlcad/bin/mged in xterm, what does it do?
03:00.45LibertyTrooperit gives me an error.  One moment.
03:00.56brlcad~pastebin
03:00.57ibotpastebin is probably a place to paste your stuff without flooding the channel - try http://pastebin.com/ (BROKEN AND SUCKING NUTS), or http://pastebin.ca, or http://channels.debian.net/paste, or for #oe use http://oe.pastebin.com, or http://bzflag.pastebin.ca/, or http://paste.lisp.org/ for the lisp/scheme nuts, or http://paste-it.net
03:04.07LibertyTrooperOne moment while I figure out why X won't start now.
03:11.44LibertyTrooperhttp://pastebin.ca/189491
03:12.26brlcadack
03:12.29brlcadopengl error
03:12.34brlcadwhat's your video card there?
03:12.49brlcadand what depth is your display set to?
03:12.58LibertyTrooperWhatever comes in a Macbook Pro ... :)
03:13.10brlcadhmmm..
03:13.16brlcaddid you compile yourself?
03:13.20brlcador using the binary
03:13.32LibertyTrooperI'm using the binary.
03:14.23brlcadthat's somewhat odd then..
03:14.24LibertyTrooperI suppose I could try to compile it myself.  But its been years since I compiled anything under X much less any flavor of Unix.
03:14.58LibertyTrooperI've got the Apple X11 installation straight from the CD ( I just installed it again to make sure everything was vanilla)
03:15.18brlcadcompiling under the macbook pro's hasn't been fully tested yet frankly as I've been putting more effort into decoupling from X11 instead
03:15.27LibertyTrooperIts a Radeon X1600 with 256/VRAM
03:15.51LibertyTrooper(video)
03:16.01brlcadit could be some rosetta/x11 issue
03:16.16brlcadit's not a universal binary there
03:16.42brlcaddoes mged -c work?
03:17.12brlcadthat kicks off classic console mode
03:17.55LibertyTrooperseems to start a console.  Asks me to attach nullXlog?
03:18.37brlcadnu
03:18.40LibertyTrooperSorry.  I suppose that BRLCad is something that is way beyond my meager skills.  I simply wanted to take a look at it because we do a lot with Motion control etc.
03:19.06brlcadooh, here's a thread on the apple mailing list -- some issue with the x11 intel binary
03:19.09LibertyTrooperIts got an mged prompt
03:19.40brlcadthat's good to know -- correlates with the mailing list info I just found -- go ahead and quit and try this:
03:19.44brlcadexport LIBGL_ALWAYS_INDIRECT=1
03:19.47brlcadthen try again
03:19.51brlcad(without -c)
03:20.03dtidrowalways inderect?
03:20.17dtidrowindirect, rather
03:20.37LibertyTrooperGot what seems to be the editor :)
03:20.54MaloeranIndirect opengl rendering, if there's no real hardware implementation available..
03:21.30brlcadyeah, it's bypassing the x11 opengl context, there seems to be a bug or endian issue at least in the x11 client
03:21.46brlcad(according to this mini-thread I just stumbled across)
03:21.54dtidrowyuck
03:22.09brlcadmeans nothing to mged, doesn't need/benefit
03:22.29dtidrowprobably, but sucks for other things
03:22.40LibertyTrooperOk.  Now I can being to figure this out.  Thanks *very* much.
03:22.46LibertyTrooperI can begin
03:22.49brlcadLibertyTrooper: glad it worked, good to know
03:23.04brlcadLibertyTrooper: the tutorial series on the website is generally the place to start
03:23.07brlcadand the other docs there
03:23.12dtidrowyou guys see the latest in SCOvWorld saga?
03:23.15brlcadhttp://brlcad.org
03:23.19LibertyTrooperI've downloaded them all.
03:23.49brlcadLibertyTrooper: ah, best of luck then -- feel free to report any problems or make feature requests that come to mind
03:23.56brlcaddtidrow: nope
03:24.02LibertyTrooperSCO... are they still around?
03:24.09dtidrowbarely
03:24.41dtidrowand if IBM & Novell get their way, SCO will be in Chap7 by the end of the year
03:25.40dtidrowNovell wants their 95% cut of the extra licenses that SCO sold to Sun and M$
03:25.57brlcadheh
03:26.08LibertyTrooperOk.  Funny.. I used to work with SCO systems 90-92... Was "adequate" system and company then.  Very good support; relatively speaking.
03:26.13dtidrowwhich is about $25M - SCO is only worth $40M
03:27.01dtidrowthis is NewSCO - used to be (and soon will be again) Caldera
03:27.03dtidrow;-)
03:27.23LibertyTrooper<PROTECTED>
03:27.33dtidrowheh
03:27.37LibertyTrooperbut = buy
03:27.44LibertyTrooperI cannot type today it seems.
03:27.45dtidrowor get in on an IPO
03:28.49brlcadand to this a lot of this started over sco's left hand not knowing what their right hand did years before, releasing some of their own abi and code as open source
03:29.29brlcadlater finding that code in the linux kernel and thinking oh noes! dey stole frum us!
03:29.30dtidrowI've still got some VA Software stock from their IPO - was able to get 100 shares at $30, sold 20 at $210, another 20 at $104, kept the rest
03:30.26LibertyTrooperI remember years ago, when I was in the Army, that SCO seemed to be everywhere :)
03:30.59dtidrowbrlcad: it was more like "We need some money fast - let's extort IBM!"
03:31.41dtidrowthey are now caught between an irrestible force and an immovable object
03:31.43LibertyTrooperBah... Whomever the CEO is, cannot hope for another job after this mess :)
03:32.11brlcaddtidrow: well, that too -- i think it sort of snowballed and got out of control
03:32.15dtidrowLibertyTrooper: we expect him to do a perp walk in a year or so
03:32.21MaloeranSCO hasn't met a horrible and painful death yet?
03:32.27LibertyTrooperYeah, dead in the water certainly is immovable (Novell)
03:32.39dtidrowMaloeran: check groklaw - the fat lady is warming up  :-)
03:36.14LibertyTrooperIts a concert that I don't care about because the music has already been played out.
03:40.18dtidrowheh
03:40.37dtidrowc'mon, the blood is starting to flow  :-)
03:41.30LibertyTrooperI've enough going on trying to get used to using my Mac :)
03:41.50LibertyTrooperThough, what I've learned has convinced me that this is going to be my platform for a long time.
03:42.15LibertyTrooperEspecially now that there is decent virtualization with Parallel
03:45.58LibertyTrooperMan, its a beautiful night here in Las Vegas... Temperature and humidity are perfect here on the patio.
03:46.20LibertyTrooperWhere is everyone else?
03:49.54MaloeranMontreal, it's getting cool up here
03:50.33MaloeranLas Vegas wasn't especially warm in the evening when I passed by 3 weeks ago
03:50.53brlcada little north of baltimore, also a great night
03:51.21LibertyTrooperWell, I was in Texas 3 weeks ago so I didn't know what it was like here :)
03:51.28dtidrowit's been downright brisk recently, for this time of year
03:52.29LibertyTrooperTexas was nice too though.  I was at Matagorda bay.  The only bad thing was the mosquito's (sp?)
03:53.00brlcad~spell mosquito
03:53.53LibertyTrooperMy wife seems to be especially tasty to them as well as extremely allergic.  She looked like I did the first time I went paintballing with my friends.
03:53.58LibertyTrooperOnly worse.
03:54.04brlcadheh
03:54.27dtidrowouch
03:54.55dtidrowyeah, I'm like that too - they seem to find my blood especially tasty
03:56.07LibertyTrooperI think its probably too much potassium.  I heard tell that they were attracted more to people with high potassium levels.
03:57.03LibertyTrooperBut perhaps the advice not to eat a banana before venturing outside in hot humid areas is an "old wives tale"
03:57.55LibertyTrooperI appreciate the help.  I've got just enough going my way now to be very annoying with my questions about BRLCad :)
04:02.14LibertyTrooperOh, btw, anyone have an opinion of sketchup?
04:05.26brlcadit's a rather nice modeling-for-the-masses tool with some decent ideas
04:06.14LibertyTrooperI found some of its tools and related concepts to be very easy.  Others were not quite so intuitive though.
04:06.14brlcadnot a solid modeler in the least, or well suited to any sort of CAd or engineering really, but it serves their purpose quite nicely
04:07.15LibertyTrooperBRLCad is suited to machine simulations, yes?
04:08.56brlcadwhat do you mean by machine simulations?
04:09.06LibertyTrooperMy unfamiliarity with the technical terms for exactly what I'm trying to ask probably leads to some confusion.  In other words, one can design a simple gear and then us BRLCad to simulate its action in the real world.  Would this statement be accurate or inaccurate?
04:09.59brlcadhm accurate yes, though the answer is a bit of a convoluted "sorta" yes and no
04:10.11LibertyTrooperLOL :)
04:10.42brlcadthere are currently no parametrics or contraints that you'd normally want to perform a realistic geometric simulation *automatically*
04:11.44brlcadthere are, however, all of the facilities to represent that gear correctly to a given physical representation, validate that representation, and apply modifications according to some simulation (rotate the gear, ensure there are no overlaps, etc)
04:12.12LibertyTrooperOk.  Thats somewhat of the answer for which I was looking.
04:13.13LibertyTrooperThanks again.  I'm going to refrain from any more questions tonight.    Goodnight all :)
04:13.23brlcadg'night!
04:14.04*** part/#brlcad LibertyTrooper (n=LibertyT@wsip-24-234-123-169.lv.lv.cox.net)
11:49.09``Erikehhhh
11:50.08ValveQhello Erik
11:52.18``Erik'sup?
11:53.20ValveQcoding some simple CAM function
11:53.41ValveQfor iso g-code generation
11:53.58ValveQ(very brlcad unrelated)
11:54.12``Erikheh, didja look at "gcam"?
11:55.03ValveQno
11:55.50``Erikhttp://gcam.js.cx/
11:56.08ValveQi can't find anything there
11:56.21``Erikwell, it's not released yet, heh, but supposedly will be soon
11:57.03ValveQok...
11:57.07``Erik:D
11:58.04ValveQi was thinking of implementing something thinner in Haskell
11:59.19``Erikheh, haskell is fun, I played with it some back in, um, '00 ?
11:59.39``Erika lot of scheme back then, too... the scheme stuck, however
12:01.27ValveQHaskell is pretty usefull as well
12:02.17ValveQat least when you learn to use the more advanced stuff anyway (monads,arrows) :)
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17:49.14brlcadhmm
17:50.26brlcad~nslookup gcam.js.cx
17:51.57brlcad~nslookup 74.92.144.217
17:53.19brlcadthat server times out on dns queries
17:56.26archivisthmm worked earlier
17:59.04archivistself hosting like me probably?
18:03.13``Erikheh
Jeff Waugh - find it at freshmeat.net! Modified by Tim Riker to work with blootbot logs, split per channel, etc. irclog2html for #brlcad on 20061004

irclog2html for #brlcad on 20061004

00:05.19*** join/#brlcad Twingy (n=justin@74.92.144.217)
02:01.46MaloeranThanks for the fixes, Erik. By the way, you added #include <math.h> in prepmodel.c, which already includes it through headers.h
02:02.02MaloeranAre you sure that was causing a crash on openbsd? Because it does not make much sense..
02:03.32MaloeranHow are the prep times now?
02:04.41MaloeranOh, you shared that on efnet :), thanks
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02:53.32brlcadhey Twingy .. finally remembered to bring the pin in next time you're in..
02:53.32Twingygot your vm, thx, haven't gotten over there yet this week
02:53.33TwingyI've been busy setting up the new cnc
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05:59.13PrezKennedykermit needs to get in on this IRC action
06:01.38dtidrowheh
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17:34.32brlcadhe'd dig it I think
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Jeff Waugh - find it at freshmeat.net! Modified by Tim Riker to work with blootbot logs, split per channel, etc. irclog2html for #brlcad on 20061005

irclog2html for #brlcad on 20061005

00:50.50MaloeranErik, brlcad, or whoever else is coming : do you know in which hotel you'll be for that Baltimore visualization conference?
01:01.45``Erikuh, I'm not getting a hotel, heh.. it's, like, less than an hour down the road
01:11.50MaloeranMakes sense
01:38.31brlcadMaloeran: takes me about 40 to drive, roughly two hours to bike, though roughly 30km of that route is somewhat unsafe (high speed, small shoulder) as you approach the city
01:38.55brlcadi'm gather he meant car, and during rush hour on a weekday .. an hour might be generous
01:39.30brlcadbut yeah, no hotel.. I go farther every other day for rowing practice
02:02.46``ErikI have a good drive to get to 95... so, yeah, I meant an hour by car
02:03.01``Eriknew southpark
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20:01.42nitaHello anyone
20:03.47nitahello everyone
20:07.04nitawho #brlcad
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23:07.30CIA-9BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/sh/gforge.sh:
23:07.30CIA-9BRL-CAD: update the script to include the names of the person(s) that the task item is
23:07.30CIA-9BRL-CAD: assigned to. genericize the script to any gforge project while not requiring
23:07.30CIA-9BRL-CAD: HOST/PROJECT to be set for some defaults. modify the table output a little to
23:07.30CIA-9BRL-CAD: change the assigned to field to be blank when nobody is assigned.
23:08.25CIA-9BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/libfb/if_X24.c: meh
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23:53.03CIA-9BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/NEWS: added new script to extract gforge task items, reworded recent script lines added by lee to fit the formatting.
Jeff Waugh - find it at freshmeat.net! Modified by Tim Riker to work with blootbot logs, split per channel, etc. irclog2html for #brlcad on 20061006

irclog2html for #brlcad on 20061006

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08:08.16Briggsanyone around?
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18:48.43CIA-5BRL-CAD: 03bob1961 * 10brlcad/src/tclscripts/archer/Archer.tcl: Mods to better accomodate utility plugins.
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Jeff Waugh - find it at freshmeat.net! Modified by Tim Riker to work with blootbot logs, split per channel, etc. irclog2html for #brlcad on 20061007

irclog2html for #brlcad on 20061007

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Jeff Waugh - find it at freshmeat.net! Modified by Tim Riker to work with blootbot logs, split per channel, etc. irclog2html for #brlcad on 20061008

irclog2html for #brlcad on 20061008

02:18.52*** join/#brlcad digitalfredy (n=digitalf@200.71.62.161)
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23:09.29PrezKennedyi gotta question about how the command line is set up in bz.. and how i can make it do that somewhere else
23:10.21PrezKennedythis other server i have an account on doesnt show the full path or the time or anything
23:41.43PrezKennedynevermind i got it figured out well enough
23:50.59``Erikheh... 'doesn't show the full path'? like... it has a different prompt? heh
23:57.00PrezKennedythe prompt was very uninformative
23:57.11PrezKennedynow it tells me where i am at least
Jeff Waugh - find it at freshmeat.net! Modified by Tim Riker to work with blootbot logs, split per channel, etc. irclog2html for #brlcad on 20061009

irclog2html for #brlcad on 20061009

00:34.50``Erikmost shells use the environment variable PS1 to set the prompt
00:44.30PrezKennedyyup figured it out
01:13.48Twingygcam.js.cx is live
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03:55.45s0|how the heck do I run this thing?
03:56.20s0|I have downloaded the gz2 file.
03:56.24s0|I have tarballed it.
03:56.30s0|I have added something to my path
03:56.50s0|I would like to know HOW THE *** I am supposed to run this thing
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17:24.04MaloeranAround, Erik? I got some draft of very short technical paper on the raytracer as first piece of documentation.  It goes right to the point without any pointless babbling though, so I guess it isn't a proper "paper" by the standards out there
17:25.12Maloeranor brlcad, if you are interested
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00:37.09MaloeranEh okay, that's a no :). It will be in doc/ with the next commit
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12:30.38yosef_mHello
12:31.30yosef_mAnyone active here?
12:53.04brlcaddepends on the time of day
12:53.15brlcad~ask
12:53.16ibotask is, like, Questions in the channel should be specific, informative, complete, concise, and on-topic.  Don't ask if you can ask a question first.  Don't ask if a person is there, just ask what you intended to ask them.  Better questions more frequently yield better answers.  We are all here voluntarily. See also http://catb.org/~esr/faqs/smart-questions.html
12:56.47yosef_mI'm looking for a way to make technical drawings in brl-cad
12:57.37brlcadthat would generally be through the rtedge and/or nirt rendering interfaces
12:58.06brlcaddoesn't give you dimensions, but does generate the hidden line renderings
12:58.08brlcadexample: http://ftp.brlcad.org/images/havoc_rtedge.png
12:59.11yosef_mis it being worked on? Are there plans to make it more like a technical drawing tool?
12:59.36brlcadyes and yes, though it's rather low on the priority scale given everything else going on
12:59.49brlcadcontributions in that regard would be more than welcome
13:00.22yosef_mWell, though I'm a programmer, I'm giving more time to my engineering degree now...
13:00.30yosef_mI'm considering VariCAD
13:01.06yosef_mThanks, though
13:01.22brlcadno problem
13:01.47brlcadtime is the biggest limitation, there are more than enough things to work on ;)
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18:30.40CIA-5BRL-CAD: 03bob1961 * 10brlcad/src/tclscripts/archer/images/Themes/ (6 files in 3 dirs): Initial check-in.
18:36.10CIA-5BRL-CAD: 03bob1961 * 10brlcad/src/tclscripts/archer/Archer.tcl: Added component selection and measuring stick options.
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23:22.29dtidrow_workevening
23:22.49dtidrow_workis that chuck?
23:22.53brlcadclose :)
23:23.07dtidrow_workheh
23:27.43``Erikblargh
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00:12.04Twingymini chuck
00:44.24CIA-5BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/NEWS: keep a record of the changes bob just added, namely hte new picking and measuring capabilities added to archer
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03:02.43CIA-5BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/TODO: add the automated rtarea spreadsheet-producing script to repository
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16:38.20brlcadyou committing? cause I was starting distchecks
16:39.43``Erikyes...
16:39.52``Eriklee committed at like 4am and broke stuff, too
16:40.20``Erikmy commits are metaball feature stuff, nothing that should impact the release... so keep working with your checkout :D
16:40.44CIA-5BRL-CAD: 03lbutler * 10brlcad/sh/facetall.sh: tolerance and EOF ignore
16:40.44CIA-5BRL-CAD: 03lbutler * 10brlcad/src/librt/wdb_obj.c: Doxygen mods
16:40.45CIA-5BRL-CAD: 03lbutler * 10brlcad/src/tclscripts/mged/ (expand_comb_tree.tcl facetize_all_regions.tcl): expand code moved into facetize_all_regions.tcl for ease of debugging. Some code changes to facetize.
16:40.50CIA-5BRL-CAD: 03erikgreenwald * 10brlcad/src/librt/wdb_obj.c: brackets need to be balanced...
16:41.44CIA-5BRL-CAD: 03erikgreenwald * 10brlcad/src/librt/g_metaball.c:
16:41.44CIA-5BRL-CAD: Scale sphere size against threshhold for 'plot'.
16:41.46CIA-5BRL-CAD: Print render method in 'describe'.
16:41.51CIA-5BRL-CAD: 03erikgreenwald * 10brlcad/include/raytrace.h: some functions useful for metaball solid editing
16:44.59``Erikhah
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14:56.48CIA-5BRL-CAD: 03bob1961 * 10brlcad/src/tclscripts/swidgets/scripts/tree.itk: Check-in for Doug Howard. These mods are for handling bigger trees.
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02:34.39CIA-5BRL-CAD: 03lbutler * 10brlcad/src/tclscripts/mged/ (Makefile.am facetize_all_regions.tcl expand_comb_tree.tcl):
02:34.39CIA-5BRL-CAD: updates to support expanding combination record trees. Serious improvements.
02:34.39CIA-5BRL-CAD: changes to facetization of all regions.
02:39.06CIA-5BRL-CAD: 03lbutler * 10brlcad/src/tclscripts/mged/expand_comb.tcl:
02:39.07CIA-5BRL-CAD: This replaces expand_comb_tree.tcl file.
02:39.07CIA-5BRL-CAD: Shorter file/proc name for ease of use in mged.
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02:47.52CIA-5BRL-CAD: 03lbutler * 10brlcad/doc/html/manuals/mged/mged_cmd_index.html: updated to match new implementation details for expand_comb
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00:01.41*** join/#brlcad Twingy (n=justin@74.92.144.217) [NETSPLIT VICTIM]
00:15.13MaloeranBig rayforce commit, Erik, feel free to inform me if I broke anything... Performance should be more acceptable ( SSE and other goodies, still no quad volume tracing, etc. )
00:17.29MaloeranWould it be possible for autoconf to put -msse -msse -m3dnow -m3dnowext -fomit-frame-pointer -ffast-math in CFLAGS by itself?
00:18.01MaloeranAnd it detects a missing log2() function systematically since it checks without -std=c99
01:23.18brlcadMaloeran: it is possible to add those flags, easiest is to probably just set CFLAGS="$CFLAGS -msse -msse -m3dnow -m3dnowext -fomit-frame-pointer -ffast-math" somewhere in the configure.ac file somewhere after AM_INIT_AUTOMAKE
01:24.41brlcadideally, you'd save your cflags (PRECFLAGS="$CFLAGS"), set a new cflags (CFLAGS="$CFLAGS ..."), and then try a compilation test to make sure they actually work and if not restoring the saved cflags (CFLAGS="$PRECFLAGS") as those options are certainly not universal
01:25.41MaloeranI see, thanks. Though, the flags should only be present if presently supported
01:28.01MaloeranThe compiled test will have to be executed, running SSE instructions... and wait for a SIGILL. I have much to read about autoconf, unless Erik wants to commit that
01:28.35brlcadthat's pretty easy to add, plenty such examples in brl-cad's .ac
01:28.53brlcadlook for AC_TRY_RUN
01:29.09brlcador AC_TRY_LINK if you just want to test compilation and not runnability
01:29.23MaloeranOh? I see, nice
01:30.26brlcadAC_TRY_RUN([ source here ], [what to do if succeeded], [what to do if failed])
01:31.18brlcadusually set a variable for the if succeeded/failed part and then handle the result outside the AC_TRY_RUN
01:34.13Maloeran*nod* I'll experiment with that, thanks
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14:26.36MaloeranErik, another quick note if you happen to try it out : delete any old cache file lying around, or you won't get proper performance
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18:49.12MaloeranHey Erik, did you see my note about reorganizing milestones?..
19:00.49MaloeranOn the truck_bots file Lee uploaded, I also get a flood of errors such as  db_walk_subtree() FAIL on '/all/fuel_pump.rc.bot  from his framework for read .g files, investigating
19:05.56MaloeranNevermind, it still works despites the flood on stderr
20:46.43CIA-5BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/NEWS: prepare for release, numbering it 7.8.4 as planned even though it's borderline 7.10 feature-wise. last news item, doug howard added (via bob) support for handling larger hierarchies in archer.
20:51.49CIA-5BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/ (configure.ac ChangeLog include/config_win.h): prepare for release 7.8.4, standard updates
21:00.39MaloeranRaytracer detects sectors of 86 and 93 triangles which aren't possible to split up. I located the sectors and there's nothing out of the ordinary visible, any possibility of overlapping triangle mess?
21:01.00MaloeranThat came out of the CSG->triangle converter
21:13.33MaloeranI'm asking since this kind of situation would have been very apparent in ADRT as well, I don't suppose it was noticed
21:19.55``Erikthe truck was never done in adrt
21:20.05``Erik<-- doesn't know about the tesselation stuff...
21:20.43brlcadit's not supposed to output overlapping triangles, but it's certainly possible if there was a degenerate case of some sort I bet
21:20.56MaloeranOkay I got it in play sight, very long thin triangles going from an edge of the sector to the opposite edge of the other sector
21:21.18MaloeranThe not yet written permutation pass of the prep will take care of that
21:24.21MaloeranIt's a fairly bad case, performance collapse by 70% there, down to 1m/s. on slow laptop
21:24.52``Erikheh, the geometry was a better test case than expected :>
21:25.32MaloeranDid you quickly test the new code? Performance is getting decent
21:30.57``Eriknope, was installing openbsd on a machine at work, and my time ended at 3, so now I'm home cleaning house
21:31.44MaloeranGah. I can't spend weeks to complete the prep as planned, with the milestones coming up.  I suppose that will wait until the end of the project
23:35.20MaloeranErik, are all these questions and statements welcome or are you occupied with other matters these days?  I could use your thoughts on certain matters related to features, milestones and the work to be done. It can wait though
23:36.03TwingyLike Suicide
23:39.23``Erikmal: your timing is off :) I like to leave work at work... talk to me tomorrow before, oh, say, 5pm, when I have access to all the files and people
23:41.20MaloeranRight. So noted, thanks
23:54.43Twingydas goot!
23:54.50Twingypan done, not for ruler
23:54.53Twingy*now
23:56.36``Erikhttp://img.photobucket.com/albums/v350/Pinecone/Cavalier2.jpg
23:59.02Twingyyour new car?
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00:16.37*** join/#brlcad IriX64 (n=mario_du@bas3-sudbury98-1168055344.dsl.bell.ca)
01:01.02CIA-5BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/ (README configure.ac NEWS include/config_win.h): update to next developer release, 7.9.0, indicating intentions for the next release to be a minor update not just a patch update as 7.10.0
01:19.49CIA-5BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/configure.ac: add an --enable-ef-build option to configure with aliases of ef, endgame, and more providing BUILD_EF for automake
01:23.29CIA-5BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/conv/ (g-acad.1 g-acad.c): Make it more explicitly clear that ACAD is not AutoCAD. It's the 'Advanced Computer-Aided Design' system developed and used in-house by Lockheed Martin (formerly by General Dynamics).
01:34.28CIA-5BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/external/README: documentation on the soon to be added external EndgameFramework module
01:35.52CIA-5BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/conv/nmg-bot.c: prevent a few potential null dereferencings
02:50.30MaloeranAhah. How was I complaining about 93 triangles per sector... There are a few >= 200 in that truck
02:51.23MaloeranOh, a 459 triangles one. Okay, this needs immediate fixing
02:54.45MaloeranThat sure explains how the rate hops between 4.5m/s and 1.0m/s. as I fly through it
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13:24.40MaloeranSo Erik, is now a good time? :)
13:25.40brlcadg'morning rossberg
13:25.51``Erikheh, walking into a meeting with wendy ina  minute, actually :)
13:25.52brlcador afternoon for you I suppose
13:26.01``Erikalso; failure on build, posix_memalign
13:26.54MaloeranIsn't that POSIX.1d ?
13:28.38rossbergbrlcad: good afternoon
13:28.47MaloeranI would have used my mm.c functions, though that's outside the raytracer library ; rather dirty to copy mm.c everywhere until I figure out these rumored "convenience libraries"
13:29.04``Erikit's not on bsd, irix, solaris, or osX... just linux as fara s i can see
13:29.22``Erikbut the functionality is listed by many other names... *shrug*
13:29.54Maloeranmemalign() is not garanteed to be able to be free()'d, which is a very akward limitation
13:30.27``Erik*read* as far as I can tell, 1d is not a standard, just a draft proposal for realtime os stuff
13:30.29MaloeranAnyhow, I'll just import some mm.c functions as I did from rfmath.c, it gets nasty
13:30.50``Erikokie, meeting time
13:30.53MaloeranHave fun!
13:35.42rossbergbrlcad: may a gpl library contain bsd code?
13:36.07rossberg(or lgpl library)
13:36.09MaloeranSure, not the other way around though
13:39.00rossberglibregex contains an unusual passage regarding the acknowledgement
13:53.28brlcadbsd code can be used easily in other codes, the license is rather flexible
13:53.53brlcadbasically just requires that you don't claim authorship for that code
13:57.27rossbergi mentioned the bsd part in the readme file of the brlcad.dll release
13:58.01rossbergthe large brlcad realeses contain the acknowledgement anyway
13:59.03brlcadright
14:00.29brlcadif i'm not mistaken, the library uses the original bsd license, which has the endorsement clause on advertising
14:01.03brlcadwould be good to update to a more recent version of that library to get the updated bsd license (and hopefully performance enhancements) but it's not a major issue in the least
14:01.36brlcadit's still bsd and lets you basically do anything with it so long as you give them credit (which brl-cad does, and you've done in your dll.. should be plenty)
14:05.30rossbergthats what i thought
14:07.00brlcadabout time we finally got a release posted.. hopefully we can stick on track now and get back to monthlies
14:09.19brlcadthe automated builds should hopefully be on-line soon so it really will be just a matter of setting a tag, copying up the files, and sending out announcements
14:10.01*** topic/#brlcad by brlcad -> http://brlcad.org/ || BRL-CAD is an open source solid modeling software suite || Developers needed! Read the HACKING file for details on getting involved || Release 7.8.4 is posted, next release will be 7.10.0
14:14.20rossbergwill these automatic builds work for ms windows too?
14:19.24brlcad:)
14:20.09brlcadideally the will eventually .. though the windows builds still need a lot of work
14:23.58brlcadgetting your dll to auto-build will likely be a lot easier to automate first
14:24.42brlcadi've got a windows dev system that should be coming on-line soon (read: within a month or two) so I should be able to polish up things where bob left off, get things automating like they need to be
14:25.01brlcadusing features of the vc6 build system that you added like autogenerating the vers.c files, etc
14:25.35rossberglikely; do you know SCons?
14:26.34MaloeranCompiling in mingw with Makefiles might well be far less trouble
14:26.44MaloeranAnd the VC6 optimisation is abysmal
14:26.58rossbergit's a cross plattform build tool based on Python
14:29.39rossbergis it possible to build windows binaries with gcc on *nix?
14:32.24brlcadrossberg: quite familiar with scons
14:34.02brlcadsetting up a scons build system would require about as much work as has already gone into the autotools build system, and adds another layer of complexity for supporting older systems
14:35.19brlcadthe biggest detriment is maturity, scons still has a lot of issues with correct cross-platform behavior, it doesn't really manage complexity much better (for large projects) than autotools does
14:36.08brlcadit should eventually eclipse autotools, but that's at least five years out if I had to estimate
14:37.17brlcadthere are other benefits and downsides, but the fundamentals just aren't there for a mild benefit -- and it only solves one (rather minor) problem of a build system.  pure windows devs still generally prefer studio projects.
14:40.29MaloeranProbably. It just seems far less of an effort to support an additional gcc target, as MS tools don't support C99, C extensions, etc.
14:41.06brlcadheh, "C extensions" are "GCC extensions" ;)
14:41.28MaloeranSupported by Intel, Pathscale and a couple others ;)
14:41.32brlcadit does support c99, though, vc8 is particularly better at conforming
14:41.50brlcadsure, but still a set of things "invented by gcc"
14:41.53MaloeranReally? I'm surprised, I heard otherwise even recently
14:43.18brlcadi'd be curious to know what someone thinks it didn't support -- there's only a limited set of api calls in the standard that are outside of the expected namespace, but they are still provided -- syntax-wise, it should be pretty conformant
14:43.47brlcadit lets you do some things that it really shouldn't, but that's a different issue
14:46.04rossbergi don't have that impression that C99 is a main issue, operating system interfaces as e.g. POSIX are more important, some are supported by Windows and some not
14:46.32brlcadthat is quite true
14:47.17brlcadthough for a lot of the posix interfaces, there's a #definable solution that works just named something different
14:47.29MaloeranQuite right. It's just one less issue to worry about when porting with mingw
14:49.02brlcada mingw port is quite easy and holistic, but need to test out how well that works for making distributable clickable apps for things like mged
14:49.17brlcadstill doesn't solve the "I want to use Studio" problem, but it gets a full build
14:50.09rossberghard to believe, the mutithread interfaces aren't compatible
14:50.33brlcadone approach I may consider is a make target that generates the studio project files -- shouldn't be too difficult as the file format is relatively straightforward xml or text (depending on whether vc678 is targetted)
14:51.15rossbergbtw, SCons can generate the vs project files (VS6.0 and .NET)
14:51.28brlcadooh, nice -- did not know that
14:52.27rossbergbut, as you said, it
14:52.34rossbergis still alpha
14:53.39brlcadyeah, I still wouldn't jump to scons just yet because of the variety of other issues
14:53.47brlcadthat would be nice icing though
14:59.36brlcadmore important is to actually get a complete build on windows, seeing as there is only 10% of the binaries ported, and an equivalent environment to run them in (a brl-cad shell)
15:01.56brlcadto get all the binaries, it's either 1) something with mingw/cygwin, 2) generate studio project files, 3) manual generation in studio like was started, or 4) give scons a go
15:02.29brlcadand that's roughly in order towards the level of effort, issues, and time that would be involved, increasingly
15:04.01brlcad3 and 4 are inherintly problematic, but if someone (tm) else is willing to do the work then great ;)
15:06.06brlcadI'll be working on both 1 and 2 as they are maintainable solutions and would stay in sync with the current build infrastructure, which has been working out quite well so far
15:13.34rossbergi havn't tried any build with mingw or cygwin yet; all i can say is the cygwin X server works for me
15:15.01rossbergon the other hand, building project files isn't the problem, however threading features and open a shell are (as e.g. in vdeck)
15:34.58MaloeranThere's really something weird about the output from asc2g
15:35.34MaloeranThere are 93 triangles in that sector : http://www.rayforce.net/grah.png  all long and thin, from an edge to the other
15:40.08MaloeranAs much as the frame only looks like made of 3-4 planes.  I'll make the prep handles such cases, but that's still some strange geometry
16:47.35brlcadhmm
16:47.50brlcad~nslookup www.rayforce.net
16:50.01``Erikhas a whois record, though
16:50.20brlcad~ping 205.178.190.21
16:50.24ibotpong 205.178.190.21
16:50.32brlcadgetting massive packet loss to his name servers
16:50.33``Eriktakeing off the www. makes it work
16:50.51brlcadnot here
16:51.03brlcadi think it's just wiggin out
16:51.05``Erikhrmmmm, probably just gimpy ns
16:51.22brlcadwhat's the ip?
16:52.12``Erikheh, sone of a bitch, got the pic but now I can't get the ip, heh
16:52.19``Eriks/e / /
16:53.22brlcadpost the pic up somewhere more respectable then :)
16:55.16MaloeranThat could be problematic for emails if that's a real problem
16:56.41brlcad``Erik: just 'erik'
16:56.49``Erikoh, woops, heh
16:57.19brlcadpublic_html will work too
16:57.27``Erikwhu? /usr/tmp/ permission denied? O.O
16:57.53brlcadthere is no /usr/tmp
16:58.00brlcad<PROTECTED>
16:58.35brlcadcan toss it into /usr/web/ftp.brlcad.org/tmp too for web viewing
16:58.38``Erikwhy the hell isn't there a /usr/tmp??? (and it's ~erik/public_html/grah.png now)
16:59.11brlcadah, http://ftp.brlcad.org/~erik/grah.png there we go
16:59.35``Erikah, s/^/ftp./
16:59.36MaloeranThanks brlcad
16:59.43``ErikI just tried brlcad.org/~erik/
16:59.51``Erikcomputers are hard
16:59.56brlcadheh
17:00.06brlcadbrlcad.org is sf.net
17:00.21brlcadftp.brlcad.org or bzflag.bz map to that host
17:00.25``Erikaight, gotcha
17:00.48``Erikhuh, and I've been pussyfooting about downloading from http://brlcad.org to keep your bandwidth down, heh
17:00.50brlcadsort of matching the old ftp.arl.mil
17:01.25brlcadmost of the larger downloads on brlcad.org actually link to ftp.brlcad.org (e.g. for the .pdf files)
17:01.33brlcadotherwise sf.net throttles them to like 4k
17:01.47MaloeranThere isn't much to see in the pictures anyhow, but it's peculiar to have many packed thin long triangles there
17:03.04brlcadyeah, i'm not seeing it :)
17:03.36MaloeranErik, do you have some time now?
17:03.48``Erik'fraid not, I'm off to another meeting in a few minutes :(
17:04.53MaloeranWill that last until you get home?
17:05.09``Erikno, this is the last one, and hopefully it'll be short
17:05.16MaloeranAll right
17:18.53CIA-5BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/configure.ac: oop, the EndgameFramework directory isn't added to the repository yet, so leave it out
17:23.11brlcadwell it sure as hell doesn't configure fast
17:25.49MaloeranMy fastest box is a single core Athlon64 overclocked by 37%, very noisy for being cooled by two 110V fans. I'm due for an upgrade ;)
17:44.41brlcadahh, almost 5 minutes to build, not "too" shabby
17:45.07brlcadaltix still beats it by about 50%, but the cost ratio is certainly a bit skewed there.. ;)
17:46.20MaloeranQuite :)
17:47.14brlcadahh, cached configure is much better.. less than a minute
17:47.25MaloeranI still await AMD's reply to Intel's new toy, I have been biased towards AMD since the amd-k6
18:12.46*** join/#brlcad Malfoo (n=maloeran@glvortex.net)
18:13.06MalfooAh, that's what I get for connecting through the neighbours wireless
18:26.49brlcadwoo, almost 15K VGRs on the 8-way AMD
18:28.45brlcad(that's just a little faster than the 12-way altix, now ~3 years old)
18:31.11MalfooHum, VGRs?
18:31.43brlcadMalfoo: it's a base unit of performanc measurement used by the brl-cad benchmark suite
18:32.34brlcadit's a linear performance metric, similar to FLOPS
18:33.05brlcadequates to average estimated ray-trace and overall cpu performance
18:33.33Malfoo*nod* Good, I guess you mesure memory bandwidth and several other factors
18:34.48brlcadit's not just a raw computation metric -- it actually performs several various "real" ray-trace renderings, so that you can compare the end user result, not just some theoretical integer/floating max for example
18:35.18brlcadso yeah, it takes memory into account, cache sizes, bus performance, cpu performance, etc
18:35.52MalfooI see. Such specific tests can perform nicely or poorly due to many factors... The chip's branch prediction, for example
18:37.19MalfooDo you have some idea how ADRT compares with OpenRT/Intrace or some other high-performance raytracers out there?
18:38.59brlcadyeah, sensitive to compilation options and compiler performance too, which is part of the entire point -- what does the performance look like when all is said and done
18:41.09MalfooI'm a bit annoyed at the complete lack of reliable raw numbers on the performance of kd-trees, from all the papers of the conference
18:41.29MalfooDoing 5 times faster than ADRT is one thing, I wish I had a clue how it compares with others
18:41.46brlcadhold a sec
19:04.38*** join/#brlcad Maloeran (n=maloeran@glvortex.net)
19:18.16brlcadthere wasn't much in the way of performance numbers at rt06, siggraph would be a better source
19:20.25MaloeranI realized that, a conference on interactive raytracing with very little focus on raw numbers ; everybody probably gets the same thing for all using the same techniques
19:22.28brlcadthat and none of the numbers have really changed since they were last presented, so it'd be redundant
19:23.32brlcadvaguely remember reschetov's presentation having numbers presented rather clearly a couple years ago
19:24.10brlcadand afaik, he's still got the fastest published results at least for first-hit optical with non-degenerate scenes
19:24.37MaloeranOh? I don't suppose you remember any number?
19:24.54brlcadheh, my memory's not that good
19:25.15MaloeranI really would love to know how sector graphs mesure against the best kd-tree implementations
19:25.29brlcadingo made a comment about it at siggraph iirc about how close they were to his results with their approach
19:25.39brlcadthough they still didn't get what he was getting
19:25.55MaloeranWas it > 10 million rays per second per processor core?
19:26.15brlcadi really don't recall the raw numbers, or what his hardware was
19:27.13brlcadhe was demo'ing it on his laptop at siggraph when it was presented, spinning detailed models around in real time with reasonable framerates
19:27.21brlcadlook up his paper, it's got to have the numbers
19:28.01MaloeranSo can I with the old slow prototype. Any idea on the paper title?
19:28.24brlcadnope, but he's not got a lot published
19:30.57brlcadahh
19:56.45MaloeranThe OpenRT performance sure is pathetic in there, but I think MLRTA exceeds my prototype
20:02.31brlcadi think adrt comes in just a little under openrt, but more or less in line
20:03.12``Erikgrar, some people are r-tards
20:04.02MaloeranProbably twice as slow as ADRT uses SSE
20:04.11MaloeranHow was the meeting, Erik? :)
20:04.40``Erik<km> the results of rt and adrt don't line up exactly, so I have to find the breakage <erik> do you know if your adrt is built to use floats or doubles? <km> floats, the problem goes away when using doubles <erik> yeah, uh, rt uses doubles, you're seeing fp roundoff <km> yeah, but I still have to  get the rays so I can see where the problem is
20:04.46``Erikhurrrrrr *head explodes*
20:05.50MaloeranTiny differences or real flaws? I don't know if the the ADRT constants to overcome rounding were perfectly accurate
20:06.35``Erikum, after a series of mutilations, the in and out points were "identical to eight places" but still claiming a thickness of 0.001 or something
20:07.07``Erikbut, dude, the problem goes away when using doubles and the results are identical... km's task is to see if the results are identical...
20:07.14``Erikand librt uses doubles...
20:07.17``Erikit ain't rocket science
20:07.20MaloeranEheh, neat
20:07.41``Erikso, yeah, *grar*
20:07.57``Erikwhat's the name of the milestone spreadsheet?
20:08.04MaloeranOh by the way, are long doubles of any interest or I can forget them?
20:08.18``Erik"long doubles" as in 128b?
20:08.28MaloeranHum, mine is called Rayforce_Meeting_Minutes.060822.doc
20:08.41MaloeranAs in whatever long doubles happen to be on the arch
20:08.57``Erikhm, I thought there was an excel file
20:08.59MaloeranI just need to fix my #ifdef all over the code if you want more than float and double
20:10.02MaloeranThe excel file is included in that one for me, I don't think I have anything else
20:13.31MaloeranIf possibe, I would like to get some time to complete the prep and raytracing pipelines, including multiple intersections and segment construction, before getting into distributed processing
20:14.14MaloeranIt is akward to distribute processing for code that is... incomplete
20:38.44MaloeranEw, sorry.
20:52.50``Erikjfc.
20:52.50``ErikOK
20:52.54``Eriknow I'm at my computer.
20:53.54``Erikregression suite isn't running yet?
20:58.16MaloeranNo, I was waiting to get a good model to stick to, the truck will do
20:58.39MaloeranAlthough I'm not entirely certain what it's supposed to do, takes a bunch of screenshots, check for correctness and record performance?
20:58.51``Erikpretty much, yeah
20:59.14MaloeranOkay, that really won't take long
20:59.42``Erikif the machine it'll be cron'd on has brlcad, we can use pixdiff or pixcmp or something
20:59.45MaloeranAs for the API, it has been completed since before the contract started
20:59.58MaloeranAll right, so noted
21:00.49``Erikvoxels down to 15 days?
21:01.02MaloeranSeems reasonable to me, it should be very simple
21:01.16``Erik"prep and pipeline" right now? how many days? 15?
21:01.41MaloeranTwo weeks would be great, though distributed processing will be tight with two weeks
21:02.05``Erikhmmm, distributed would be after mpi/ip?
21:02.26MaloeranThat's pretty much the same thing in my book :)
21:02.55``Erik<-- is shuffling numbers and order here, tryin gto figure out what to present up
21:03.24MaloeranIt's probably because I try to get every part fully done as I move on, rather than just meet some basic requirements
21:03.24``Erikwell, half, and teh big ones are at the end
21:03.30``Erikprobably
21:03.44MaloeranI have written a bunch of stuff for dynamic geometry already
21:03.44``Erikcan we cut down on dynamic geometry, then? move some time there to prep&pipeline?
21:04.09MaloeranMaybe a week, but I could use a while there ; there are unsolved questions to explore
21:04.41``Erikyou have 47 days listed, if I can hoist some to prep&pipeline...
21:05.02``Erik<-- would like to show 'em something saying that you're at or ahead of what the schedule says you should be :D
21:05.22MaloeranAgreed :), hrm
21:05.57MaloeranOne week to finish the prep, one week to finish raytracing pipelines including multiple intersection ( which leads to segment construction )
21:06.10``Erikcan you cope with 'excel'? or do I need to be in a different format
21:06.22Maloeranooffice2 can cope
21:06.57MaloeranOne extra week on distributed processing ( IP/MPI )  ;  Two weeks out of voxel, one week out of dynamic geomerty
21:07.13MaloeranWhat do you think?
21:07.32MaloeranActually, I won't need two weeks on segment construction, that's easy
21:08.07``Erikefnet...
21:09.25MaloeranReceived, a bunch of ### in there
22:09.59Twingymoo
22:43.56*** join/#brlcad pra5ad (n=prasad@pool-70-16-21-23.balt.east.verizon.net)
22:44.36pra5adwhere can i find the slad directory online?
22:44.46pra5ador is there one i can access from home?
22:46.32MaloeranHey prasad, long time no see here, not that I can be of any help on the questions
22:47.37pra5adhey man
22:47.42pra5adhow's life as a contractor
22:48.41MaloeranI would like to say "relaxing", but the work is fairly demanding while quite enjoyable. Do you still have some vague interest in the dream of building raytracing hardware? ;)
22:52.12pra5adsure do
22:53.34MaloeranI don't think you have access to the cvs, I'll hand some url to a very short document on the techniques used if you are interested
22:55.06MaloeranIf you have a look, feel free to share if it makes some sense, it's... rather short and right to the point
22:56.14pra5adwill take a look
22:56.26pra5adwhat is the slad intranet url?
22:56.28pra5adanyone?
23:10.54``Erikwhich, uh, intranet url? heh
23:17.06pra5adnm
23:17.17*** part/#brlcad pra5ad (n=prasad@pool-70-16-21-23.balt.east.verizon.net)
23:39.30MaloeranSeems he doesn't plan on hanging around
23:42.25``Erikhe sucks
23:42.45``Eriktoo busy chasing tail I guess
23:45.33MaloeranThat's a metaphor for spending time on unproductive things?
23:50.34``Erikheh, uh
23:50.46``Eriknot unproductive.. .more... reproductive...
23:50.47``ErikO:-)
23:52.11MaloeranOh, hum. Unproductive too then
23:54.27``Erikheh
23:56.08MaloeranI can vary performance vs memory consumption a whole lot, I suppose the regression test suite should try a few settings
23:56.49``Erikif we can express that as a curve and tehn map the progression of the curve over time, that'd be gnarly
23:56.52MaloeranI'm annoyed by the huge amount of memory the prep takes, I could reduce that greatly by sacrificing a bit of graph quality
23:57.32MaloeranWhat about a text file? :) Not that generating curves take a long time to write
23:58.01``Erik'curve' might be a couple numbers in the end
23:58.14``Erikas long as we can do SOMETHING to achieve some understanding of the change over time
23:58.22MaloeranSure, okay
Jeff Waugh - find it at freshmeat.net! Modified by Tim Riker to work with blootbot logs, split per channel, etc. irclog2html for #brlcad on 20061018

irclog2html for #brlcad on 20061018

00:10.58MaloeranThat truck is so saturated of degenerative cases which produce packed long thin triangles. Performance will suddently bump up at some point when I write the missing prep pass
00:35.48brlcadthat's an interesting feat because there's about 3 predominant coding styles in brl-cad
00:36.16brlcadat least until I finally run source formatting to make it all consistent
00:36.21MaloeranYes I noticed, I tried to get used to the one documented in HACKING
00:36.28brlcadahh
00:36.43Maloeran( though I fail miserably )
00:37.03brlcadthat's mostly K&R style
00:37.31brlcadthe next most popular is probably BSD style
00:38.45MaloeranYes... I learned C at 12 without internet or books, just a compiler and some code ; I don't think I follow any standard
00:43.58Maloeranand I learned x86 assembly from typing  gcc -S  instead of  gcc -s  once by mistake ;), the old good days
00:44.29brlcad:)
01:34.49*** join/#brlcad korrupthed (n=squee@bas1-london14-1167879640.dsl.bell.ca)
01:35.46korrupthedthe site is not comin up .. n e one got a download link i can follow?
01:39.48*** part/#brlcad korrupthed (n=squee@bas1-london14-1167879640.dsl.bell.ca)
02:27.39brlcaddamn sourceforge
02:28.05brlcadi think they're blocking us as we are several hundred MB over quota
02:28.13brlcadi'll put in a request for an increase
02:28.27brlcadin the meantime, there's the mirror: http://ftp.brlcad.org/
02:28.35MaloeranYou mean there were too many downloads of brlcad?
02:28.48MaloeranPerhaps that should go in the topic
02:29.13*** topic/#brlcad by brlcad -> http://ftp.brlcad.org (mirror of http://brlcad.org, down for 'maintenance') || BRL-CAD is an open source solid modeling software suite || Developers needed! Read the HACKING file for details on getting involved || Release 7.8.4 is posted, next release will be 7.10.0
02:29.20brlcadyou were saying? :)
02:29.35brlcadnobody reads the topic, but there it is
02:29.41brlcadnot too many downloads
02:30.35brlcadthere is a default quota on the amount of space you can utilize on the web space provided to projects (which is separate from the project pages and the file release system section)
02:31.00MaloeranAh, I see
02:31.02brlcadwe already have a massively increased quota on the file release system as each release uses about a GB if all binaries are made
02:31.27Twingylarger than open office?
02:31.39brlcadbut for the web space, ti's still the default 100MB, and we're at 300MB or so
02:31.54brlcadTwingy: no idea
02:32.13Twingywhat are you paying for you colo?
02:32.21brlcadprobably, just because there are so many more binaries
02:32.47brlcadit's not a colo, it's dedicated
02:33.02TwingyI thought you payed for a colo somewhere for brlcad.org
02:33.13brlcadbrlcad.org is sf.net
02:33.19Twingyyou gave it up?
02:33.34brlcad.bz (i.e. ftp.brlcad.org and bzflag.bz) is my server
02:33.43Twingythat's colo right?
02:33.50brlcadno, it's dedicated.. :)
02:34.04brlcadi get the whole box, the whole pipe
02:34.09brlcadi just don't own the hardware
02:34.16Twingyoh yea, ok
02:34.17brlcadless fuss
02:34.19Twingywhat are you paying for that
02:34.33brlcadi don't recall exactly, it's pettance
02:34.38brlcad~spell pettance
02:34.49brlcadsomething like 65
02:35.02TwingyI just switched to comcast workplace 6Mb/768 for $80 a mo, they got 8Mb/1Mb for like $100 something
02:35.09Twingyno bandwidth cap
02:35.17Twingystatic ip etc
02:35.25brlcad"no bandwidth cap"
02:35.50brlcad768 up would be a killer
02:36.01Twingyhow about 1Mb?
02:36.55MaloeranConnections sure are expensive down there, I'm paying less for a 10mbits commercial
02:37.11MaloeranAnd they are paying half of that for 20mbits in Norway and Sweden, but.. :)
02:37.16TwingyI think bandwidth is proportional to the population of the area
02:37.38MaloeranAh yes, indeed
02:37.43brlcad1M might work, but that's still less than what I have
02:38.01Twingybut you have hands on access to your box so you could use one box as raid/fileserver/webserver
02:38.08brlcadI can sustain 4Mbit over the entire month before I cap out, about 1.5TB
02:38.17Twingykk
02:38.57TwingyI've pondered the idea of doing colo here and using solar panels to power machines
02:39.37Twingythe little 500MHz nano-itx boards only use 2.5W
02:39.38brlcadi'm about to replicate to a server in germany soon, need redundancy on some of the services for bz and some of the web hosts
02:40.01Twingythey would be very economical to offer dedicated on
02:40.05brlcadthe deal is about the same there, maybe 5 bucks cheaper even
02:40.21brlcadheh
02:40.29brlcad"Site Down due to cloudy day"
02:40.33Twingynaw
02:40.37Twingyit's grid tied
02:41.22Twingyfor folks that don't need much bandwidth, I could probly pitch it for $29.95/mo for your own box
02:42.11TwingyI'd prefer charging based on bandwidth and power consumption though
02:42.22Twingythat'd be real easy to compute
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16:01.04brlcadbrlcad.org isn't down because of quota usage apparently, it was a larger vhost problem that affected lots of projects not just ours
16:01.24brlcadsince it's just vhost services, brlcad.sourceforge.net actually still works as one would expect
16:18.21MaloeranErik or brlcad, what's the little program found in brlcad to convert raw pixels to pix or some other format? ( to use pixdiff )
16:42.15brlcadpix files are raw image files
16:43.14brlcadfirst quadrant, integer array, interlaced, 8 bit per channel, 3 channel (RGB)
16:43.37MaloeranOkay, I was not seeing any output, but the files are indeed identical
16:43.47brlcadso basically, if you just write out RGBRGBRGB, you can use pixdiff
16:43.57Maloeran*nod* Thanks
16:44.40brlcadtry pixcmp
16:44.47brlcadmore numerically informative
16:45.35MaloeranRight, that will do nicely
16:47.29brlcadthe brl-cad benchmark uses that same tool to validate results, off by one values are 'okay', but off by many from the expected results are considered an error
16:48.03MaloeranYou will get "off by many" whenever a ray happens to hit the edge of a triangle or not
16:48.19MaloeranI'm just comparing my scalar vs SSE packed paths, and : 1432833 matching, 7164 off by 1, 3 off by many
16:50.06MaloeranIf we were to raytracer the counter of a single triangle, just the ray-triangle intersection algorithm used will make a few pixels bump in or out
16:50.21Maloeranto raytrace the contour
16:51.03brlcadit's to say that you're usually comparing to stable results with something that should be the similar or the same situation
16:51.39brlcadif you can explain the deviation, demonstrably (not just intuition), then it's generally a non-issue
16:52.33brlcadbut it's often been the case where off by many errors have cropped up even in rt that "seemed reasonable" at a glance that could be explained away as floating point or edge cases, etc, only to find out later that there was numerical instability not being accounted for
16:53.41MaloeranYes, I'll have to check my math on that later on too
16:54.03brlcadintuitively, the scalar vs sse packed paths can of course be different if only because of different mathematical manipulations, but it not necessarily the case that you can't get them to have no off by many values ;)
16:54.49``Erik*yawn*
16:54.55brlcadfood coma?
16:55.00``Erikkinda
16:55.08``Erikbigassed morning meeting contributing
16:55.10MaloeranJust the order of operations would change the result
16:55.36brlcadsure would
16:55.54brlcadbut how much and whether the drift is something that can be adjusted for is another issue
16:56.01brlcadmaybe, maybe not
16:56.30MaloeranI could use pictures out of ADRT or so, to rely on as a reference
16:56.38brlcadthe point is usually to trace the ray and watch the results to be able to deterministicly say why it's different
16:56.56brlcadyeah, though you'll probably have issues matching cameras
16:57.16MaloeranYes... and ADRT seemed to rely on magical constants, I'm not sure if that's really reliable
16:57.18brlcadand even then, you're still bound to have off by lots
16:58.27brlcadi had a little fun a few weeks ago, took a single sphere and ray-traced it with rt
16:59.15MaloeranI assume librt is fairly accurate overall
16:59.17brlcadthen proceeded to tessellate the sphere to varying orders of
16:59.25brlcadfacetization
17:00.08brlcadusing pixcmp to compare the differences, increasing the tessellation at each level to see how closely I could minimize the deviation error
17:00.14brlcadit was rather interesting
17:00.53brlcadI couldn't make the off by manys go away, but was able to reduce them to a mere hundred or so on a 512x512
17:01.12MaloeranThat's about what I would expect
17:01.25brlcadended up getting up to 10M triangles before getting bored with it iirc
17:02.48brlcadwhich is about 50 triangles per pixel? :)
17:03.25Maloeran:) You'll always get many "off by many" near the edge, especially in a case like this
17:04.01MaloeranI get many "off by one" just for supplying the vectors to the API or having them automatically generated
17:04.14brlcadactually, the edges were dead on
17:04.59brlcadthe off by many errors were around a highly specular hilight area
17:05.07brlcadwhich also makes sense
17:05.43brlcadwhere a tiny deviation results in a wrong energy contribution
17:05.49MaloeranThe edges were correct? I'm surprised, the wonders of double precision I guess
17:06.36brlcadwith enough triangles, I was actually able to get a majority of the sphere to not have even off by one errors
17:07.11brlcadbut we are talking about lik 1M triangles.. for just one .. sphere .. :)
17:08.07MaloeranI think results would have been off for many pixels if you had used floats, not matter how many triangles were used
17:08.23brlcadprobably
17:08.29brlcadan exercise for another day
17:08.42MaloeranAs accuracy is so critical, I guess I'll have to write a SSE2 double precision path
17:09.42brlcadi was just more interested with sort of estimating how many triangles will it generally take to get the energy deviation to match the implicit within some %
17:15.38brlcadfront, top, left, 35,25, and a few random ;)
17:16.46MaloeranTraversal is faster for axis-aligned points of view, that would be a bit biased
17:18.27MaloeranAny thoughts on if I need to test scalar, scalar with vector generation, SSE, SSE with gen, double, etc.? That list could be long
17:18.41MaloeranOn top of various combinations of preparation quality/memory/speed hints
17:21.18brlcadthat's why only three would be axis aligned
17:21.38brlcadbut those happen to be .. frequently used views for various purposes, so it's also relevant
17:21.46Maloeran*nod* Okay
17:23.19brlcadnot really sure about what all you need to test.. that depends on a lot of factors, especially the expected use and need
17:23.47brlcadthough following the scientific process would make me lean towards testing them all especially given it's just going to be automated
17:24.19MaloeranIt just implies I need two libraries to test float and double, for example
17:27.15``Erikwhy? build for float, run tests, b uild for double, run tests...
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17:32.18MaloeranThe front-end is meant to support multiple libraries already though, if I can figure how to do that with autoconf.  On a different topic, the triangles of truck_bots.g sure are not oriented in a coherent way
17:32.46MaloeranAny simple brlcad command to attempt fixing this?
18:01.43``Erikoriented as in uniform winding?
18:04.06MaloeranPreferably, yes
18:18.29MaloeranLogically, when converting from CSG to triangles, it should be terribly simple to orient the triangles properly
18:18.59MaloeranYou know very well what is "in" and what is "out" at that point
18:19.35``Erikyeah, logically...
18:19.43``Erikbut the converter is... imperfect.
18:20.13MaloeranThat's what should be fixed, rather than trying to fix the triangles afterwards or raytracing results
19:11.47MaloeranEh well, Mark forgot the arrangements for the conference and Beatrice doesn't seem to be taking her emails ; registration is only possible on-site now. I think I'll have to try an ancient audio communication device
19:13.59``Erikwhat conference?
19:14.23MaloeranBaltimore visualization conference
19:14.29MaloeranOct 29 to Nov 3 or so
19:30.45MaloeranNo more success by phone. With some luck, I'll just miss that conference ;)
19:39.54``Erikah, heh
19:40.05``ErikI'd rather be going to nycbsdcon :/
19:40.08``Erikstupid overlap
19:45.53``Erikbut on sourceforge, it doesn't have the dash in the short project name, brl-cad :)
19:46.21archivistand this room is minus the -
19:47.31brlcad``Erik: yep, and there's actually documentation written about exactly when it's okay
19:47.33MaloeranEh well, pick a different nickname? ;)
19:47.35brlcadwhich I can see you haven't read :)
19:48.43brlcadit's not because I use brlcad or not, it's to retain coherency/consistency on the name of the project
19:49.02brlcade.g. BRL-CAD is the official name, dash and all
19:50.06brlcadspeaking of which..
19:52.50``Erikit's ok when I say it's, brl-cad :>
19:53.48``Erikalexis: I was in err on the 'bundle' statement, it just means packets of rays, and limiting to either all parallel or all co-originating is ok
19:54.10``Erikalso; the conference thingy, it's not about the conference, it's about presense in the area (meeting type crap) according to lee
19:54.55MaloeranThat's fine for Lee, but I'm not really fond of that
19:55.05``Erikparse which? my tongue in cheek statement about it (brlcad vs BRL-CAD) being ok when I say it's ok? :D
19:56.04MaloeranThanks for the clarification on ray bundles, that's quite simple
19:56.08``Erikmal: I just reported status, and carried response back *shrug* technically, this is between lee and mark, and then mark and you
19:56.09tofuit's all good, but it does dilute slightly to not be consistent even as minor as it is
19:56.14``Eriksorry about the misinformation earlier :)
19:57.07``Erikwell, the 'perspective' case is not necessarily a regular grid of rays, it could be a random-looking scattering generated by someone elses software...
19:57.29MaloeranOf course so, one can supply arbitrary vectors if so desired
19:57.35``Eriklike, say, if I'm using it to do radiosity and I have an optimization where I don't shoot as many towards darker areas *shrug*
19:58.12Maloeran"Reported status", that implies uncompleted regression tests right? :) There's not much missing
19:58.19``Erikheh, arl-cad :D
19:58.44``Erikum, 'reported status' was more like "clarify a couple things for me, and oh, he might not make it to the conference"
19:59.17MaloeranAny reason provided or asked for not making it to the conference?
19:59.20tofu~nickometer ``Erik
19:59.23``Erikhttp://hardware.slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=201421&cid=16490605
19:59.27``Erikhah
19:59.33``Erik~nickometer tofu
19:59.41``Erikwow, lame script
19:59.42``Erik:)
19:59.54Maloeran~nickometer Maloeran
20:00.04``Erikmust be my stealth marks
20:00.20MaloeranYour stealth marks are no match for a french canadian keymap
20:00.44``Erikthe keymap isn't where the stealth comes from, it's the character map on ... lesser os's.
20:01.03``Erik(many windows/mirc users think it's ''erik, and get confused when they can't whois or privmsg me)
20:01.21``Erikhttp://content.ytmnd.com/content/a/2/2/a224551a525ebf5e30cedf1f4ae16b99.gif
20:01.31MaloeranSpeaking of which, I wonder how you do ^ with an us/en keymap, is the character used for anything besides programming?
20:02.17MaloeranAhaha
20:02.18``Erikshift-6
20:02.43Maloeran"Accept teaching without resistance". I sure remember why I quit school
20:03.10``Erikonly at the worst primary schools
20:03.37``Eriksecondary schools tend to be a lot more involved with a lot more participation and a lot less teacher idiocity
20:04.00``Erik(it's a GOOD thing if you cna prove the professor wrong :)
20:04.35MaloeranI went to a good high school, for musically gifted people where 55% of the time there was spent on music.. so it was bearable
20:04.41MaloeranCollege was a shock
20:06.04MaloeranI was thrown out of a physics class there for arguing with the teacher about the spin of electrons, I had my Hawking book to prove my point, I quit the following day
20:06.34``Erikwow, I'd seen similar arguments, never seen that result, though...
20:06.38``Erikcolleges in canada must suck ass
20:07.15MaloeranI went to a fairly "normal" college, out of a high-end school for talented people, so the shock was brutal
20:08.12MaloeranI'm sure there are stupid teachers everywhere
20:08.53``Erikdefinitely, but some environments are more accepting of stupid behaviors than others
20:09.32MaloeranIt wasn't just the teachers, the pace was so terribly slow, the students were so.. ignorant and unmotivated. It was a radical change of environment
20:10.05MaloeranBut I really had enough of violin after 10 years, seriously :)
20:16.35``Erikheh, unless you go down into the city, it's called a "fiddle" here... ;> *duck*
20:17.28``Erikand brl-cad is from the land of fiddles, banjos, and toothless people in overalls, pheer wv *duck* :D
20:18.27MaloeranCool, need a violin for the ARL orchestra or something? :)
20:18.39``Erikheh
20:20.08``Erikdamn openbsd does not compile pretty.
20:22.22MaloeranCompiling obsd or compiling something there?
20:22.28``Erikcompiling obsd's world
20:22.30``Erikkeeps breaking
20:26.12``Erikhm, rayforce fails on my leenewx opterwang thingy
20:26.22``ErikPreparation time : 35.583 seconds
20:26.22``ErikError flag : 0
20:26.22``Erik-- Memory allocation listing at ../../../RF/context.c:208 --
20:26.23``Erik<PROTECTED>
20:28.59MaloeranWhat's faling?
20:29.01Maloeranfailing, even
20:29.09``Erikalso; "The posix_memalign() function is part of the Advisory Information option and need not be provided on all implementations." (per http://www.opengroup.org/onlinepubs/000095399/functions/posix_memalign.html )
20:29.29MaloeranRight, I'll change that soon
20:30.04Maloeran35 seconds is awful somehow
20:30.06``Erikum, I don't know what's failing? heh, it generates an rtch file, about twice as big as the rtml
20:30.13``Erikwell, that's an amd64 linux box
20:30.34``Erikuhhh, and the roter lowe
20:30.35MaloeranThe cache file uses 64 bits indices, so it's big
20:30.44``Erik-rw-------  1 erikg 42 88915180 Oct 18 16:25 roter-lowe.rtch
20:30.51MaloeranWoah :)
20:31.36MaloeranI'm aware that cache files need some packing
20:32.06``Erik$ uname -osrvmpi
20:32.06``ErikLinux 2.6.9-42.0.2.ELsmp #1 SMP Thu Aug 17 17:57:31 EDT 2006 x86_64 x86_64 x86_64 GNU/Linux
20:32.27MaloeranDoes it render otherwise? What do you mean by failing?
20:32.31``Erikbut when it gets done generating the cache file, reports the error code (0), then says a list is empty and exits
20:33.01MaloeranThat means no error occured and there's no memory leak. envCreateWindow() must have failed
20:33.15MaloeranThe SDL window creation
20:33.49MaloeranIt's not clear how it could fail though
20:34.01``Erikthat did it
20:34.08``ErikDISPLAY wasn't set
20:34.18MaloeranYes, that explains it
20:35.02``Erikaround 7-14 fps (depending on how much is in view)
20:35.32MaloeranFor the M1 model?
20:36.04MaloeranThat's acceptable for now, tracing of volumes ( or frustum culling, whatever you want to call it ) will bump the numbers up soon
20:36.07``Erikthe boat
20:36.15``Erikthe model that shouldn't be is 7-9
20:36.42``ErikI have a feeling that the remote X part might be bottlenecking it now
20:37.03Maloeran7-14fps on the 1.7m frigate despites all the diagonal ropes all over the place? That's not too bad
20:37.22MaloeranEvery ray is being traced entirely at the moment ; there's no volume tracing at all, so I'm not displeased with that
20:37.25``Erikwell, the deck is barely visible, since the camera is kinda below the keel, heh
20:37.53``Erikand when it swings around, the camera goes through the inside
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20:38.53MaloeranYes well, you have to uncomment the other origin[] in main.c
20:39.23MaloeranThe boat and the M1 have different scales and origins, so you have to switch between two blocks of code from one model to the other. That will be cleaner eventually ;)
20:41.39``Erik2.4-2.8 with the ship and the right origin, heh
20:42.08MaloeranThat's much more like it
20:42.31MaloeranI never tried the boat with the SSE code, I think the laptop's ram is not enough to prep
20:42.58``Erikhm, I have the ram
20:43.07``Erikthis 8 core opteron has 32g ram
20:43.10``Erikand 1.8ghz chips
20:43.11MaloeranEheh
20:43.24``Eriknoisy piece of shit, too
20:43.31MaloeranIt will perform... better with volume tracing, a fixed prep, and threads
20:43.38``Erikgimme threaded distributed code, boy :D
20:44.03``Erik24 opterons should have a fair amount of push
20:44.11MaloeranI know! :) I'll complete the code before distributing it though
20:44.45``Erik43.2 ghz of opteron unfage, with 96g of ram
20:45.45Maloeran35 seconds of prep was the frigate?
20:46.19``Erikyeah
20:46.20MaloeranI'm just making sure, I had enough weird experiences with absurd prep times on your boxes... :)
20:46.22MaloeranGood
20:46.37``Erikonly 7.2g disk space, though
20:46.41``Eriker
20:46.42``Erik7.2tb
20:46.44``Erikheh
20:47.26MaloeranCool, I'm sure I can come up with a cache file format to fill that
20:47.47MaloeranXML-based layed out binary, a bit at a time, with 256 bits indexing
20:51.15``Erikheh, 'xml based' was enough... :(
20:51.29``Erikthe most verbose and useless reinvention of s-expressions I've ever seen
20:51.47MaloeranIt's much better when used to describe binary data too
20:54.23``Erikxml... based...
20:54.33``Erik:>
20:59.34MaloeranThat's the spirit! XML, SQL and Java are the future
20:59.41``Erikif you strap a piece of buttered toast to the back of a cat, butter side up, and drop the cat out a window, it will fall to approximately a foot above the street, and hover there, spinning.
21:00.10``Erikhuh... xml, sql, and java... that combo sounds, uh, familiar.
21:00.32archivistna not my cat as it is devoid of self righting and ... life
21:01.15``Erikthrow in jini, hibernate, rio, 'naked objects', service based architecture, and an obscene focus on process, content management, control, and cmmi and you have yourself a winner...
21:01.17``Erik*cough*
21:02.28archivistbuzz words give me headaches
21:03.02``Erikarchivist: that was the quick&dirty description of the software project I recently escaped from... I foresee... no success wrt to it.
21:03.57MaloeranWe should write a distributed processing raytracer for it, where every sector, node and triangle access goes through a SQL query
21:04.17``Erikthey were, uh
21:04.22``Eriktalking about kinda doing that actually
21:04.29``Erikbecause the jni interface to librt is "too hard"
21:04.40MaloeranAhahah
21:04.40archivistI just bought a book at the weekend as it had a buzz word on the cover and I thought I should be able to say I knew something about it
21:04.44``Erikso they were gonna write the raytrace component in java
21:04.45``Erik*cough*
21:04.57MaloeranThis is so sad
21:05.05archivisteven php would be faster
21:05.50``Erikwell done php would be faster than what they're trying to do, yes... but well done java CAN be 'reasonable' performance-wise... well done java is rare, though
21:06.06``Erikpeople either approach is as 'weird c++' or go way overboard on oo :(
21:06.12MaloeranIf you do care about performance, just don't use Java
21:06.16``Erikvery few understand how a jvm works
21:07.08archivist"overboard on oo" they've read too much UML bs
21:08.03``Erikclass Blah extend Meh {}    <-- common construct.
21:08.09``Erikextends, even
21:08.13``Erik*cough*
21:08.53archivisttis right to be bitter about extends crap upon crap
21:09.21``Erikdude, I could literally bitch for hours
21:09.22``Erik:)
21:09.57MaloeranThat doomed Java project must have caused a profound psychological trauma
21:10.07MaloeranAs it would have for any other sane programmer
21:10.09archivistoo has created a new kind of quck and dirty programming
21:10.54``Eriknot so much quick, just a whole lot of dirty? :D
21:11.55MaloeranI think it's quick for very simple thing, but it doesn't scale
21:12.00Maloeranthings*
22:06.24``Erikheh, baltimore has all that if you go downtown, too *shrug* :)
22:08.40MaloeranOh I'm sure it does. Until I moved two weeks ago, I wasn't in reach of delivery for the really good restaurants
22:19.17tofummm.. indian food
22:19.28tofui miss living in the city
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Jeff Waugh - find it at freshmeat.net! Modified by Tim Riker to work with blootbot logs, split per channel, etc. irclog2html for #brlcad on 20061019

irclog2html for #brlcad on 20061019

00:47.43MaloeranErik, will you be the one running the regression tests on some box or am I?
00:48.14MaloeranI don't suppose I'll have reference images to begin with, I can only monitor how it changes over time from what I presently have
00:54.17``Erikregression tests should be a script that can be cron'd nightly
00:54.27``ErikI presume that either you or survice will be running them on some set of boxes
00:54.54``Erikand if it looks logical to me, I'll be running them on a larger set of boxes, perhaps with radically different data (that we can't give you), and gateway what info I can to you
00:55.06MaloeranNightly? Hrmph.
00:55.29MaloeranOnce a week will do. Sounds good then
00:57.40Maloeranhttp://www.rayforce.net/log.txt  Anything missing, besides the pixdiff?
00:59.02MaloeranAh, are separate tests for both floats and doubles important?
01:00.22MaloeranThis is the laptop and some points of view were put on the "bad spots" with sectors of > 50 triangles, to hopefully see a good improvement there soon
01:11.42MaloeranBwah, I get differences in images from the quality settings of the prep. That doesn't look like good news :)
01:40.53``ErikI would argue that doubles are important. floats are irrelevant... better than double would be nice, but not necessary...
01:40.58``Erikbut that's my opinion
01:41.06``Erikand I'm just a peon *shrug*
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10:24.31``Erik*yawn*
11:33.13MaloeranGood morning
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23:50.07``Erikhttp://www.webpark.ru/uploads16/ubertachka_1.jpg
23:50.09``Erikhttp://www.webpark.ru/uploads16/ubertachka_2.jpg
23:50.10``Erikawesome
23:56.08MaloeranDisturbing
Jeff Waugh - find it at freshmeat.net! Modified by Tim Riker to work with blootbot logs, split per channel, etc. irclog2html for #brlcad on 20061020

irclog2html for #brlcad on 20061020

00:01.46brlcadMaloeran: I'll be rather interested in about a week or two to get some data from you
00:02.20brlcadperformance numbers
00:03.05Twingyvroom!
00:03.05MaloeranSure. I'll have volume tracing ( ray bundles or whatever ) done by then, though other optimisations will be missing
00:03.07brlcadhave a presentation to give and you're work will be a part of it
00:03.23MaloeranOh? A presentation on BRL-CAD I assume?
00:03.28Twingybzfrag
00:03.40Twingy^-- chinese version
00:03.42brlcadon ray-tracing and brl-cad
00:03.45dtidrow_worklol
00:04.42MaloeranNeat, I'm hoping the new code will actually perform faster than the prototype by then. By the way, if you have any interest in the code, I'm sure it could be arranged
00:05.30brlcadbasically how you compare will be the hilight, your approach (non-technical) and how it might be of interest to the audience for V/L
00:06.49brlcadi won't have time to look at the code for this, but it would be interesting to demo it on your behalf
00:07.30MaloeranOkay. I'll try to have it threaded, that would... help for a demo
00:07.32Twingywill there be donuts?
00:07.46brlcadthere will be lots of lights
00:07.55Twingypretty girls?
00:08.02brlcadpretty sure
00:08.06MaloeranOr failing that, there's the old prototype for use
00:08.25Twingywill you have Mr. T giving the introduction?
00:08.25brlcadTwingy: you hear the news about someone?
00:08.28MaloeranMay I ask who will attend the presentation?
00:08.34brlcadnope, not going
00:08.41Twingyaww
00:08.46brlcadjust me
00:09.14Twingybrlcad, unless I know who that somone is I know not the news you speak of
00:09.36brlcadyou know who that someone is
00:09.50TwingyI know not the news
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00:25.55Twingylittle caesars, the ramen noodles of pizza
01:52.10dtidrowlol
01:57.09brlcadmm.. ramen
01:58.35dtidrowbtw, the owner of Little Ceasers also owns the Tigers (go Tigers!!!)
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02:00.33alvin_leethe program used to create the models is the mged?
02:02.34Twingyyes
02:02.52Twingythere is a manual with tutorials on the site
02:03.27brlcaddtidrow: heh, curious
02:03.38brlcaddo they serve the pizza at the stadium? :)
02:03.55dtidrowprobably - haven't been to the new one
02:03.59brlcadmm.. "the mged"
02:04.25brlcadthat gives almost a sound of respectability to it
02:04.44Twingymjed
02:04.48brlcadactually it fits with the original expanded name :)
02:04.57brlcadthe multi-device...
02:06.44dtidrowyour car doesn't have a cassette player?
02:06.51brlcadnope
02:07.01brlcadCD player, no input jack
02:07.18dtidrownew ones do
02:07.32brlcadyeah, well mine's not new :)
02:07.44dtidrowmy wife's is a n '06, and it has an input jack
02:07.47brlcadand the connectors have been prevalent for more than a dcade
02:07.56brlcads/dcade/decade even/
02:08.31brlcadas have the proliferation of little audio devices
02:09.18brlcadhmm.. monster's looks good
02:09.21brlcadhttp://www.monstercable.com/computer/productPageComputer.asp?pin=2084&LastPage=Apple%20Products
02:09.56dtidrowyeah, you would think that they would have started to do that ever since portable cd players came out
02:10.48brlcadyep
02:11.56dtidrowoh well, glad I got the cd/cassette combo with my car
02:12.09brlcad:)
02:12.33dtidrowI just stuff a cassette adapter into the slot and plug in the music
02:12.39dtidrowand the XM radio
02:13.38brlcadunless it's a road trip
02:13.56brlcadwhich is why this is all the sudden of interest, trip up to boston tomorrow
02:14.20dtidrowah
02:16.45MaloeranMmhm. mcarp didn't quite have a great time with mged, I guess he's more into artistic rather than engineering modelling. Unfortunate
02:18.27brlcadnot too surprising
02:18.38brlcadit's the least forgiving and most painful for new users
02:18.48dtidrowheh
02:19.17brlcadit starts out horrible and then slowly gets (much) better, but that's not an easy path for the nimble
02:19.56brlcadwhich is really a shame, because most of the underlying power is considerably better (or at least more extensive) than mged itself
02:20.18MaloeranI haven't really tried it ; from what I know, he found it bothersome to use commands for about everything
02:20.48MaloeranPerhaps there's room for improvement in the user interface then?
02:20.51brlcadthat's actually one of the things I DO like most about it, the command line interface
02:21.00brlcadheh, room for improvement
02:21.04brlcadthat's an understatement
02:21.08Maloeran:}
02:21.13brlcadit's the foundation of the new modeler environment
02:25.20MaloeranThat conference room is a terrible raytracing benchmark, it's all cube-based and axis-aligned, large triangles to quickly fill up
02:26.08brlcadit's a semi-realistic environment, though as it's a "real place"
02:26.18brlcadas opposed to some object in a void or in a box
02:26.48MaloeranAt least rotate the room by 30 degrees on two axis then
02:27.25brlcada particular view at a teapot sitting inside the powerplant model sitting on some terrain would make for an interesting model ;)
02:28.55MaloeranEheh. The two models I mentionned above are very difficult for acceleration structures, hence why I would like to see kd-trees on these
02:29.32Maloerantruck_bots are long thin triangles that are impossible to split up for binary trees, the frigate has ropes going everywhere
02:30.02Maloerantruck_bots has* long
02:30.52brlcadoh speaking of mcarp, another idea came to mind if he's entirely put off on using mged
02:31.09MaloeranCan you parse .ASE ? Model is 600mb of that text format
02:31.10*** part/#brlcad alvin_lee (n=iuri@201-34-233-91.bsace704.dsl.brasiltelecom.net.br)
02:31.16MaloeranWhat is it?
02:31.42brlcadhe could use something like povray, so long as it was still primitives and csg
02:32.10brlcador another cad package that could dump out IGES with nurbs objects perhaps "maybe"
02:32.11MaloeranI'll pass on the message
02:32.18brlcadbut povray would be easy
02:32.33brlcadthere are gui modelers for it too, various quality
02:34.03MaloeranI don't think he minds CSG, but the tools he uses couldn't natively export it and ends up converting to triangles
02:34.41brlcadright, and that's a problem for the specific reasons I wanted it
02:35.13brlcad(matching a historical reference)
02:36.14brlcadi really should get started on that geometry website soon
02:36.45MaloeranA repository of geometry?
02:36.52brlcadi'm curious how well it would take off with the right interface, whether the community really would jump in and start bringing the models together
02:37.08brlcadyeah
02:37.21MaloeranCSG or about anything?
02:37.25brlcadanything
02:37.49MaloeranSounds good
02:39.05brlcadbasically a database of models, with details about the content, geometry type characteristics (solid, csg, brep, hybrid, etc), statistics (model size, number of objects, polys, etc)
02:40.15brlcadautomatically convert models to various formats, keeping track of versions and validity of the information like whether this particular triangle teapot is the "original" or whether this brep one over here is, etc
02:40.40brlcadrather straightforward to do, more just a matter of grunt work to set up the infrastructure
02:40.54brlcadand the design and appeal/usability of the site itself
02:41.10MaloeranI'll adopt the BRL-CAD conversion tools one day, I went the pseudo-lazy way and wrote an ASE parser ( just text )
02:42.04brlcador maybe you'll write a brl-cad conversion tool one day ;)
02:42.20brlcadlike an ase-g importer or an g-ase expoerter ;)
02:42.48MaloeranIf you care about ASE, sure :)
02:44.20Twingynot to be confused with ASS
02:44.22brlcadbrl-cad already has more importers and exporters than just about any other open source modeling system (though blender is close, but they don't do any of the hard ones)
02:45.12MaloeranBlender's exporters and importers were terribly broken for me
02:45.18brlcadit wouldn't take much to make a fairly universal converter library and app (ala image magic's "convert")
02:45.22MaloeranSo were lib3ds, libase, and a couple other things
02:46.15MaloeranI don't easily trust any other code than my own now, due to such... historical reasons. I just write what I need
02:46.42brlcadstep is the format I really want to see implemented
02:47.42brlcadit's a horribly complex format, but adopted by every one of the major commercial systems
02:48.02brlcadand is about as faithfully representing as you can get
02:48.39brlcadsince it's pretty much the union of all possible CAD/CAM/modeling features you might have wanted in your own format
02:49.50MaloeranInteresting, never heard of it
02:51.07brlcadif you're not in CAD/CAM or otherwise spending $20k on a CAD system, you probably wouldn't
02:51.23brlcadit's the successor to IGES
02:51.44Twingythen there was GCAM
02:51.47brlcadwhich was the definitive CAD format before it
02:51.52brlcadheh
02:52.36Twingyan italian grad student donated the other day
02:53.15brlcadMaloeran: other than .g, have you dealt with *any* solid modeling or CAD format that you know of? :)
02:53.46MaloeranI used Autocad 13 and 14 for years younger, helping my father's engineering work, if that counts for anything
02:53.48brlcadprobably mostly dealt with general modeling formats like stl, dxf, vrml, etc
02:54.16MaloeranOtherwise, never dealt with anything CAD related :)
02:56.16MaloeranI suppose step and Iges support about all primitives one can think of, CSG or otherwise?
02:56.33brlcadpretty much
02:56.57brlcadas well as things like constraints, parametrics
02:58.07brlcadconstruction history, tolerance limits (per part or global), validation and verification
02:59.55brlcadformats like iges, step, jt, parasolid's x_t/x_b, vda, brl-cad's format (to a lesser extent for the advanced features)
03:00.57brlcadother details the geometry file might contain is whether the model is actually just a wireframe, or it's polygons, or it's a solid, or just a surface model, is there connectivity, etc
03:01.18brlcaddxf probably belongs in that mix too
03:01.44MaloeranQuite nice, sounds like troublesome to fully parse too
03:02.03brlcaddepends on the format and the specification
03:02.22brlcadparsing is often the easiest part
03:03.01brlcadit's harder to actually convert.. especially when their representation is something you don't support, or the model doesn't have something you need
03:03.28MaloeranYes that's what I meant, handling all the possible kinds of geometry representations
03:03.39Maloeranrepresentation*
03:03.54brlcadlike reading in nurbs if you only supported triangles in your format... or only supporting solid models, yet the model you're converting has degenericies
03:04.00brlcadyeah
03:04.52brlcadthat's where brl-cad does pretty good as we intrinsicly support just almost everything commonly in use
03:05.55brlcadwe lack superquadrics and have poor support for 2D primitives and don't really do trimmed nurbs (but do do untrimmed ones)
03:06.20brlcadat least not yet
03:06.56Twingyheh, you said do do
03:07.37brlcadre re me me so so la la si si do do
03:08.23MaloeranAhah
03:08.44brlcadMaloeran: it's the same
03:10.51brlcadi don't think that'd be very comfortable to ride on
03:11.03Twingyyou can keep it in my garage if you need to
03:11.04brlcador go very fast
03:11.33Twingyif one of the strings break I have some 10AWG wire left over from solar installation
03:12.39brlcadhey, there's even a wiki page on it whowuddathunk http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/CAD_data_exchange
03:13.05brlcadmm.. 10AWG
03:13.28brlcadsounds like it'd be useful.. FOR A LYNCHING!
03:13.30brlcad*ahem*
03:13.42TwingyI'm real curious if I can melt copper
03:13.54brlcadwith your bare hands
03:13.56TwingyI almost have enough scrap to try
03:14.51Twingyeven if I could get it hot enough I doubt I could keep more than an ounce hot enough
03:19.24TwingyGCAM just about hit the 9k line mark, roughly 25% the size nurbana was
03:25.23Twingyok, I'm not sure how that relates to what I just said...
03:29.10MaloeranIt probably doesn't :). Anything missing in gcam besides 3d view and GUI candy?
03:31.26TwingyI've got 3d view and I don't think GUI candy is appropriate for gcam
03:32.25Twingythere's a number of features that still remain, but it's moving at a healthy pace, just check out its bugzilla
03:32.43TwingyI'm averaging a feature just about every other night
03:32.51Twingyfinishing up pocketing now
16:23.34MaloeranErik, I'll be going to the conference finally ( Beatrice from Survice was sick hence the long delay in response )
17:10.45``Erikah, cool
19:45.44CIA-5BRL-CAD: 03erikgreenwald * 10brlcad/src/librt/g_metaball.c: More print capability. Fixed missing magic in st_specific.
20:11.11MaloeranMetaballs, now with more magic!
20:57.58CIA-5BRL-CAD: 03erikgreenwald * 10brlcad/src/mged/edsol.c: some (not very stable or complete) metaball editing
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21:50.07``Erikheh
21:54.56``Erikfear my magic balls.
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21:58.24``Erikheh, yeah, that's it, kill and scramble braincells, that'll help you solve a difficult problem...
21:58.29MaloeranThe basic idea is to try to reunite a volume later on even if it appears to split up, through the mess of sectors and nodes
21:59.05MaloeranOh the problem has no physical substance, banging one's head against it is purely metaphorical :)
21:59.11``Erikyou can't extrapolate that from the knowlege of neighbors?
21:59.18``ErikBANG YOUR HEAD! METAL HEALTH WILL DRIVE YOU MAD!
22:00.20MaloeranI can't extrapolate anything, I must walk the quad volume and compute on the way if no sector is contained without being intersected by one of the four rays
22:00.40MaloeranAnd do it efficiently, that is
22:01.25``Erikuhmmmm
22:01.36``Erikuhh, crap, I left that booklet at work
22:01.59MaloeranSimple cases are easy, but I want something that will be as aggressive as possible, to avoid processing smaller bundles or rays as long as possible
22:02.02``Erikin your rt06 poster book, look for the poster that japanese dudes did... I *THINK* what your'e talking about is what they solved?
22:02.28MaloeranHum. Looking for the poster book
22:02.43MaloeranNo one is using sectors out there, I doubt anyone solved that. It's very different with kd-trees
22:02.44``Erikyou remember the one I'm talking about, right? the one next to mine?
22:03.13``Erikhm, *shrug* they may have information that might be useful... *shrug* research is good.
22:05.52MaloeranThat's basic stuff, and they aren't aggressive in their traversal at all
22:06.11MaloeranHum, and Reschetov did better in 2005
22:06.38``Erikreschetov does some cool stuff
22:07.06MaloeranYes, I quite like the guy ; he writes papers when he has something to say... unlike Wald
22:07.24``Erikwhat he has to say is also worth listening to, unlike many
22:08.10MaloeranRight. I'm really not fond of this Wald character, the impression I have is that he's more interested by attention and praise than communicating anything of value
22:11.24``Eriknot uncommon, unfortunately
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Jeff Waugh - find it at freshmeat.net! Modified by Tim Riker to work with blootbot logs, split per channel, etc. irclog2html for #brlcad on 20061021

irclog2html for #brlcad on 20061021

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13:50.33MaloeranIt stores the value in some other register, then flushes the content of %rcx on the stack to be able to use it ; systematically
13:53.39``Erikso fix gcc *shrug*
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15:18.20MaloeranErik, seems nested functions can be used on OSX with -fnested-functions after all. Does the ban hold?
15:18.55``Erikuhm, does it work on fbsd?
15:19.15MaloeranSure, works pretty much everywhere
15:19.41MaloeranOSX is a weird exception that requires an extra compiler switch, besides -std=gnu99
15:20.02``Erikuhmmmm, I guess if it works on leenwx, fbsd, mac, and winderz, it should be ok *shrug*
15:20.40``ErikI mean, the point is to make it run on the platforms, not arbitrarily avoid language constructs
15:20.43MaloeranWorks on winderz with mingw/cygwin and Intel. Is any other compiler of interest?
15:21.38``Eriknah... mebbe intel vectorC or pathscale, but 'functionality' is the purpose... uh, vc++ might be desired by some, uhhhhhh,
15:21.50``ErikI think bob was the one doing the windows BRL-CAD stuff?
15:22.00MaloeranPathscale supports gnu99, vc doesn't even support C99 to begin with
15:22.09MaloeranYes, he's the one
15:26.57``Erik<-- still codes to c89 *shrug* it works everywhere
15:27.09MaloeranThis code is just going to be messy and less efficient without nested functions
15:27.15``ErikI d'no if vc++ can use libraries from mingw?
15:27.35MaloeranHum, mingw can produce DLLs so surely
15:27.51``Erikyeah, but didn't vc++ need both a .dll and a .lib?
15:28.08``Erikand, uh, iirc, the .lib was very compiler specific? or mebbe I'm confused with borlands compiler suite
15:28.21MaloeranAh quite possible
15:28.39``ErikI remember that vc++ .lib's didn't play nice with borland, so significant hoops had to be jumped through to use vc++ compiled libraries with bcc
15:28.46``Erikbut that was, uh, over ten years ago.
15:29.16Maloerani don't know of anything in mingw to produce .lib files or something
15:29.42``Erikvery much not my world :)
15:29.54``Erikthat's over on the other side of you linux dorks ;)
15:31.54``Erikhmmm, I had a picture of a sun monitor, and on it was a penguin toy inside of a condom... I should find that... :)
15:33.15MaloeranBlasphemy!
15:34.37MaloeranIt appears XCode 2.3 added -fnested-functions, whatever XCode might be
15:34.46``Erikhttp://www.birkoph.com/tech/IT_tux-in-condom.jpg
15:34.50``ErikXCode is the mac ide
15:35.28MaloeranXCode 2.3 which in turns requires OSX 10.4
15:36.18``Erik10.4 is an acceptable requirement for macs *shrug*
15:36.27Maloeran( Not getting much of a reply there yet )
15:36.37MaloeranOkay.
15:36.58MaloeranAh! Poor Tux
Jeff Waugh - find it at freshmeat.net! Modified by Tim Riker to work with blootbot logs, split per channel, etc. irclog2html for #brlcad on 20061022

irclog2html for #brlcad on 20061022

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Jeff Waugh - find it at freshmeat.net! Modified by Tim Riker to work with blootbot logs, split per channel, etc. irclog2html for #brlcad on 20061023

irclog2html for #brlcad on 20061023

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12:30.29scorpionhello people!
12:30.41scorpionis blrcad similar to autocad?
12:31.39scorpioncan I use this to draw 2d layout of buildings?
12:33.36scorpionany one here>?
12:33.43scorpionthanks....
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Jeff Waugh - find it at freshmeat.net! Modified by Tim Riker to work with blootbot logs, split per channel, etc. irclog2html for #brlcad on 20061024

irclog2html for #brlcad on 20061024

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07:13.54clock_Hi
07:14.35clock_Is it possible to edit a cylinder in MGED by dragging it's ends with mouse without entering numerical coordinates, just by eye?
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13:37.20clock__brlcad: can I edit primitives with mouse without entering numbers?
13:37.33clock__like rotate and prolong/shorten cylinders?
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21:39.38*** topic/#brlcad is http://ftp.brlcad.org (mirror of http://brlcad.org, down for 'maintenance') || BRL-CAD is an open source solid modeling software suite || Developers needed! Read the HACKING file for details on getting involved || Release 7.8.4 is posted, next release will be 7.10.0
Jeff Waugh - find it at freshmeat.net! Modified by Tim Riker to work with blootbot logs, split per channel, etc. irclog2html for #brlcad on 20061025

irclog2html for #brlcad on 20061025

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07:00.22clock_Unfortunately the brlcad is completely unusable for an ocassional user
07:00.57clock_I used to know how to use it 1/2 year ago and now I am trying to use it again and I see I forgot all the elaborate definition
07:01.12clock_What's the difference between c, g, and r? Which ones permit overlapping and which not?
07:01.22clock_What is A,B,C,D,H, and V in a cylinder?
07:01.52clock_The help is also unusable:
07:01.56clock_mged> help c
07:01.56clock_Usage: c [-cr] comb_name [boolean_expr]
07:01.56clock_(create or extend a combination using standard notation)
07:02.19clock_Doesn't say what a combination is and what properties it has and what is not allowed with combination
07:02.34clock_THe same for g and r:mged> help r
07:02.34clock_Usage: r object(s)
07:02.34clock_(create or append objects to a region)
07:02.34clock_mged> help g
07:02.34clock_Usage: g gname object(s)
07:02.36clock_(create or append object(s) to a group)
07:05.01clock_The quick reference card PDF takes about 10 seconds to draw a page on 1500MHz CPU so it's rather a slow reference card than a quick reference card
07:26.20clock_Is it possible to place points in BRL-CAD and then reference them?
07:26.30clock_For example place points A, B, C, D into space and then say
07:26.38clock_"connect A and B with cylinder 6mm diameter"
07:26.57clock_and the same for A and C, A and D, B and C, B and D, C and D
08:02.31brlcadclock_: per your earlier question, you can click in the graphics window to edit a value with the mouse
08:02.37brlcadwithout typing in values
08:03.34brlcadyou select teh edit operation on the edit menu, then middle click in the graphics window using points above and below the center dot to increase/decrease values
08:04.47brlcadmain difference between c g and r is syntax, except r also marks the object as a region which has a specific meaning (creates a "part", or solid matter as opposed to just a shape)
08:05.38clock_brlcad: is it the content of the help stored in the source tarball?
08:07.29brlcadwhat do you mean?
08:08.12brlcadmost of this stuff is covered by the intro to mged guide if that's what you mean
08:10.14brlcadthe help for those commands in mged is weak .. they need something like a manpage per command as it's not easy to quantify their use in one line
08:10.50brlcadyou really have to grasp the difference between groups/assemblies and regions/parts and combinations before it all makes sense
08:11.51brlcadg creates a group with a simple syntax of just listing objects you want to add, g object a b c d e f will add a b c d e f to a group named object
08:12.35brlcadwhich is a shorthand for creating a combination of only unions of a b c d e f, i.e. equivalent to c object a u b u c u d u e u f
08:13.49brlcadr does effectively the same thing as g, and can use a similar syntax, but it marks "object" as a region which matters for things like overlaps
08:22.00clock_and c?
08:22.10clock_Can I edit the help and improve it?
08:22.25clock_Can I page and string search in the help output?
08:44.17clock_Is it possible to change the help and then send a patch?
10:45.32clock_brlcad: I need to draw a model of lattice truss made of tetrahedral units
10:45.47clock_The wire is 6mm thick and in some parts 10mm pipe with 1.5mm thick wall
10:45.51clock_How do I do this efficiently?
10:46.08clock_Only rotating one wire takes like 15 minutes to get it right
10:46.32clock_The best would be if I could click 2 points and say connect with wire
12:11.11clock_brlcad: ?
12:40.51``Erikheh, he probably went to sleep o.O
13:43.25brlcadheh
13:43.59brlcadclock_: of course you can edit the help and improve it!
13:44.15brlcadfor string search, there is already a command, 'apropos'
13:44.58brlcadthere isn't currently a pager, though as I mentioned, I have thought that it would be good to move to full blown manpages for the commands
13:46.36``Eriksleep, row, whatever, just layin' around being lazy... :D *duck*
13:47.28clock_brlcad: row on the water or on a rowing machine in a gym?
13:47.53brlcad``Erik: that's your mantra too?!
13:48.02brlcadclock_: on water most days
13:48.10``Erikgettin' a bit cold to keep that up
13:48.11clock_must be cold and wet
13:48.12brlcadthough it is getting pretty freaking cold at 4am
13:48.16clock_watery grave ;-)
13:48.25``Erikabout 34f ?
13:48.32clock_shy stirring water? You should generate electricity!
13:48.38brlcadit was about 38 this morning without the wind
13:48.41brlcadthe wind is usually the killer
13:48.44clock_shy -> why
13:49.33``Erikno leather jacket, cap, and scarf while rowing? :}
13:49.35brlcadI looked at getting one of those generator motors .. but building the contraption is something I don't quite have time to do right now :)
13:49.57clock_brlcad: you could support the weak national grid
13:50.40brlcadnot too weak around here, but yet ;)
13:50.51``Erikgrids aren't quite national here, and the weakness is in wires being snapped or dug up, not overdrawn
13:51.52clock_brlcad: I made a new holder for ronja http://images.twibright.com/tns/1f25.html
13:52.28clock_I think it will be better to not try modeling it because it contains planes tangential to cylinder which I don't know how to make in BRL-CAD
13:52.52clock_Welding a prototype is more cost-effective option that trying to model it in brl-cad
13:55.02clock_jog?
13:55.20clock_jogging leads to hammered down knees
13:55.27clock_watching tv is the only safe activity
13:56.27archivistna a lot of tv damages the brain
14:01.36``ErikI watch lots of tv and have no dain bramage
14:15.04CIA-5BRL-CAD: 03erikgreenwald * 10brlcad/src/librt/g_metaball.c: cope with a zero point metaball
15:41.24CIA-5BRL-CAD: 03erikgreenwald * 10brlcad/src/mged/edsol.c:
15:41.24CIA-5BRL-CAD: Metaball: Implemented add and delete pt. Improved keypoint display. Fixed
15:41.24CIA-5BRL-CAD: "second edit" crash.
15:43.03clock_bam drainage
16:07.02brlcadcool
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18:35.55``Erikheh
19:26.42``Erik"I really thought the kids would get a big kick out of a scorpion filled pinata"
19:27.55archivistIve had a scorpion walk over my foot when I was a kid
21:20.21TwingyI've been bopped!
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22:06.14test34I just installed brlcad and I created a primitive but it doesnt show up in the graphical window (I'm following VolumeII_Introduction_to_MGED.pdf).. any idea what could be wrong? (I tried to create a primitive from the command prompt and from the menus)
22:08.04test34If I type: l sph1.s, I get V 0 0 0 .. does that mean volume is 0 ?
22:11.46test34V (0, 0, 0)
22:24.03test34the rest of the tutorial displays correctly as I do it
22:24.10test34(ie the radio)
22:24.31Twingytry another primitive
22:25.18test34hmm it works now.. maybe it was just out of sight?
22:25.49Twingyor your clipping plane prevented you from seeing it
22:25.59Twingyyou can always turn clipping off under the menu
22:26.45test34ok thanks
Jeff Waugh - find it at freshmeat.net! Modified by Tim Riker to work with blootbot logs, split per channel, etc. irclog2html for #brlcad on 20061026

irclog2html for #brlcad on 20061026

00:02.59brlcadtest34: V stands for vertex
00:03.07test34ok
00:03.12test34thanks for the info
00:03.18brlcadwhich is the center point for that sphere
00:03.25test34ok
00:04.52TwingyNot the mama
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10:50.30clock_Is Group just a Combination that uses only the OR operator?
15:26.13brlcadheh
15:26.30brlcadyes, though for CSG, that's generally referred to as the union operator
15:27.08brlcadOR -> UNION
15:27.11brlcadAND -> INTERSECTION
15:27.46brlcadMINUS -> SUBTRACTION  (aka A AND NOT B)
15:40.39clock_When I have a symmetric model and I model only one half and want to make the other half by copying and mirroring
15:40.55clock_How should I do it?
15:41.04clock_Make a combination of one half and the same half mirrored?
15:41.49clock_Or make a combination containing only one half, then produce another combination by mirroring the combination, and then finally third combination that will UNION both toghether?
15:42.01clock_I don't remember which of these two possibilities triggers incorrect behaviour in mged and which not
16:33.38brlcadclock_: there's a 'mirror' command :)
17:07.40clock_brlcad: I know
17:07.58clock_but which 1 of the 2 possibilities should I use?
18:50.21``Erikhttp://www.thinkgeek.com/gadgets/electronic/8928/?cpg=39T
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Jeff Waugh - find it at freshmeat.net! Modified by Tim Riker to work with blootbot logs, split per channel, etc. irclog2html for #brlcad on 20061027

irclog2html for #brlcad on 20061027

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Jeff Waugh - find it at freshmeat.net! Modified by Tim Riker to work with blootbot logs, split per channel, etc. irclog2html for #brlcad on 20061028

irclog2html for #brlcad on 20061028

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14:38.33MaloeranHum. Hotel reservation ends friday morning, flight is in the evening ; would it be possible to leave my luggage in someone's car from friday morning until then? I'm probably asking a bit early
14:38.41Twingydon't forget your tooth brush
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14:56.58CIA-5BRL-CAD: 03d_rossberg * 10brlcad/src/librt/prep.c: memory lleak fixed (rtip)
14:59.11CIA-5BRL-CAD: 03d_rossberg * 10brlcad/src/libbu/malloc.c: array bounds read error in bu_strdupm fixed
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19:04.08brlcadMaloeran: hotels and conference centers (for the large conferences at least) almost always have a place to leave luggage for the day
19:04.20brlcadotherwise, probably someone if you're going where I think you're going
Jeff Waugh - find it at freshmeat.net! Modified by Tim Riker to work with blootbot logs, split per channel, etc. irclog2html for #brlcad on 20061029

irclog2html for #brlcad on 20061029

00:06.14*** join/#brlcad iday (n=iday@c-68-55-177-228.hsd1.md.comcast.net)
01:20.32MaloeranAhh... This place is crazy, I'm totally not at my place
01:21.27MaloeranThere didn't have whatever kind of room Survice had reserved, so they gave me a suite. There's even a large table for 6 persons in there
01:21.35Twingycall the gnome!
01:21.50MaloeranSo hum, any suggestion where to eat nearby on foot from the Renaissance harborplace thing?
01:21.59TwingyMcDonalds!
01:22.33MaloeranI'll try that sometimes! But not today, I haven't eaten since 9h this morning, so I need actual food
01:23.20Twingyhow are you transporting this time?
01:23.54MaloeranBy foot, if I understood the question
01:24.16MaloeranSeriously, any suggestion where to eat nearby? I assume you people know Baltimore a bit
01:24.21Twingyis this the place across from the wingate?
01:24.54MaloeranThis is in Baltimore, some huge classy luxurious hotel where I feel totally out of my environment
01:25.18Twingysurvice has a place in baltimore? learned something new today
01:26.02MaloeranNo, I'm there for visualization conference 29th to 3rd
01:26.32MaloeranI'll just walk randomly if you don't have any suggestion
01:27.24TwingyI'm clueless when it comes to baltimore, I live in my basement
01:28.01Maloeran:) Okay. Herein begins the quest for food! Be back later
01:29.23Twingy9:30 pm, good luck
01:31.12idayinner harbor
01:31.43idaythar be food there...
01:31.43TwingyI'm still on a macaroni and cheese budget until the next pay raise
01:31.46idayha
01:31.58Twingymore than one of my pay checks goes to the monthly morgage
01:32.00idaywhatever - if you didn't spend it all on solar panels
01:32.07idayyou'd have more
01:32.23Twingynot at the moment
01:32.26idayfor most people it is that way ;-)
01:32.30TwingyI'm spending money I won't see till february
01:32.56idayi just got a VGR of 12730 on my machine
01:34.14idaybut i must get back to HW
01:34.24idayBTW - talked to drew thursday
01:34.40Twingykk
01:35.01idayliterally caught him walking to his car to leave - but everything seems on track
01:35.31idayjust waiting for the announcement
01:35.54Twingymy adrt stuff seems to be done
01:35.56idaytold him not to be concerned about hred - i do need to make things clear to troy though....
01:35.59idayyay!
01:36.02idayno more ww
01:36.06idayfor you!
01:36.18Twingyright-o
01:36.40Twingyit's like 1.5x with doubles and 2x with floats
01:36.49Twingyso I kept up my end of the bargain
01:37.03idaydid you ever get in any sse stuff?
01:37.04TwingyI haven't even optimized my junk either
01:37.09idayok
01:37.12TwingyI'm just rushing it to get it done
01:37.15idaythat probably answers my question
01:37.18Twingy:)
01:37.45TwingyI've been working on gcam all day
01:37.47idaysince sse is a major part of the optimized nurbs rendering - i started looking into last week
01:37.54idaycool
01:37.58TwingyI finally have the capability to design a full aircract fuselage
01:38.06Twingy*craft
01:38.13TwingyI think I will design one for AMA
01:38.16Twingyfor fun
01:38.21TwingyI have the balsa in the garage
01:38.25iday:-)
01:38.26idaynice
01:38.34Twingyyou should make your own too :)
01:38.35idayformers and everything?
01:38.42TwingyI will use foam and balsa only
01:38.46Twingyno monokote
01:38.48idayi thought about doing some model aircraft design
01:38.51idayit would be fun
01:38.51Twingythat stuff is a headache
01:38.59Twingyyes, lot's of fun
01:39.03Twingygcam is a big headache though
01:39.10Twingytrying to make intuitive gui's and stuff
01:39.16idayalthough i have like 3/4 planes waiting to be built in my workshop
01:39.24Twingyah
01:39.28idayguis are difficult
01:39.29idaythat
01:39.35idayis all there is to it
01:40.11idaythe interesting thing is: you can make a better looking gui than the code
01:40.34idayiow - the gui looks good - but the code is spaghetti :-(
01:40.41Twingymy sketch and extrude paradigm is very handy if you use it right
01:41.11Twingyyou could in theory use brl-cad to accomplish what I'm trying to do
01:41.26Twingybut you would have to modify it only use arcs and lines
01:41.34Twingyand be able to order things
01:41.44idaybrl-cad sketch tool is POS
01:41.46Twingywithout ordering you will lose your structure as you mill
01:41.51idayeveryone knows that ;-)
01:41.57Twingymost people just want to do a dxf
01:42.05Twingybut they don't understand they need to cut the insides out first
01:42.08Twingythem the outter perimiter
01:42.13Twingyotherwise it'll get thrown around
01:42.25idayyeah - hahaha (visualizing the result)
01:42.36Twingyon the very last layer the machine literally spits it out
01:42.48Twingyin any random direction
01:42.58Twingyabout 1 - 4 inches
01:44.13TwingyI need to buy a sheet of that pink fomular insulation for home
01:44.29Twingyvery handy when it comes to building models
01:44.50idayyes - they use it all the time in MA and other mags
01:44.53Twingylike $20 for a 2' x 8' sheet
01:44.59idayespecially for 3d electrics
01:45.15Twingyhighly flamable, but oh well :)
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02:06.00Twingyone of these days I'm going to have to leave this house on the weekend
02:35.34Twingyargh, meltdown
02:38.01MaloeranMy brain is still running in french mode, I started ordering in french, and later said "thank you" in french
02:38.21Twingyat least yours is running
02:38.25Twingymine is crawling right now
02:38.30MaloeranThe waitress was more amused than annoyed, fortunately
02:38.41MaloeranLack of sleep?
02:38.51Twingyplenty of sleep
02:39.09Twingygcam is becoming quite a handful
02:39.16MaloeranLack of vitamin B6, B12 and Omega 3?
02:39.20MaloeranAh, too much work :)
02:39.37Twingyworking 14 hours a day on it 7 days week gets to you
02:40.00MaloeranYes, tell me about it. I took a little break recently
02:40.07TwingyI went running today...
02:40.27Twingyevery time I add a new feature
02:40.36TwingyI hear a thousand years complain
02:40.44Twingys/years/users
02:41.01Twingyin my head of course
02:41.02MaloeranComplaining because features are added? How so?
02:41.30MaloeranOh :), I thought it was a handful of users with really loud voices, or perhaps a lot of echo
02:42.18Twingyyou crack me up :)
02:43.34MaloeranI'm a bit annoyed as the hotel's wireless barely reaches my room/suite on the 7th floor, the signal is too weak. I have to connect from the lobby
02:45.08Twingycan you boost the power in the driver?
02:45.40Twingysome times the mcu on the card will let you adjust the regulator
02:45.53MaloeranGood idea, there are iwconfig settings for that, I never tried though
02:46.00Twingyassuming it's an adjustable regulator
02:46.43MaloeranIt's a bit weird to have a full featured suite with a conference room built-in, but no wireless
02:48.29Twingyno it's not
02:48.54Twingywireless is outsourced by a third party
02:49.12Twingythey don't care who gets what coverage
02:49.17Twingyjust as long as there is coverage
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06:18.47PKMOBILEim movin tomorrow! hooray!
06:18.52PKMOBILEand i start work monday
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22:08.20MaloeranHrmph. So where are you guys, ``Erik, brlcad? Haven't seen you around yet
22:12.06MaloeranI was in the medical visualization presentations, seemed more interesting than the... other weird stuff
22:12.26MaloeranNot too sure why I'm here for yet, though
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22:39.23MaloeranDoh.
22:39.30MaloeranIs it the same for Erik and Lee?
22:39.43brlcadyou're probably there just to sponge up information and ideas, rarely any *specific* reason
22:40.02MaloeranSeriously, what am I doing here? :) This has nothing to do in any way with what you people ar edoing
22:40.03brlcadno, they're going to be there most of the week
22:40.04Maloeranare doing, even
22:40.33brlcadvisualization?  there's quite a bit of that
22:40.38MaloeranDo you know if they were present today?
22:40.45brlcadnope
22:41.12MaloeranVisualization of complex graphs into 2d planar stuff? Visualisation of thousands of overlapping 2d functions by random sampling?... I think this is way off
22:41.39brlcadehm, that's like only one tiny aspect
22:42.12brlcadif you're comparing just what you've seen in one or two sessions as representing the entire conference, *that* would be way off
22:42.48MaloeranRight of course, I would have prefered knowing that I could skip a few days
22:43.02brlcadof specific interest is just about anything related to medical visualization
22:44.22MaloeranI asked where you guys were staying in Baltimore, when I learned you would drive daily, it should have been implied in the question :)
22:44.46brlcadwell they're supposed to be there all week
22:44.52brlcadi'm just not
22:45.04MaloeranRight. Thanks, I must have missed them
22:45.14brlcadtoo much of a rush and interrupt into another task I'm working on
22:46.15MaloeranMy time could be used for more productive things too, without throwing 400$ away daily
22:46.36brlcadyou can always sit in a corner and code
22:46.39Twingyyou could have invested that into TwingCo, LLC
22:47.34MaloeranMmhm, or stay at the fancy hotel suite. They didn't have anymore of what Survice reserved, so I was given a suite
22:48.24brlcadi certainly wouldn't be complaining about staying there ;)
22:48.25TwingyI think you should have made some donations to GCAM instead :P
22:48.32brlcadeven if just to sit in the room and code
22:49.48MaloeranThis is way above my comfort needs, it makes me.. uncomfortable
22:49.56Twingyhah
22:50.10MaloeranThere's a conference room built-in the suite if you want when passing by
22:55.09TwingyI think you should walk around as a giant pumpkin on the 31st
22:56.15MaloeranWoohoo. I lack the costume though. I could try to mimick it
22:56.40brlcadcould make one out of the pillows and sheets
22:56.51Twingyyou remember ftp.cdrom.com/pub/asm/party/XX ?
22:56.53brlcadi big white pumpkin
22:57.20Twingyyou could do a little pumpkin 3d demo
22:58.02TwingyI must've downloaded every one of those
22:58.23Twingy4kB and I'd be watching 3d fly throughs on my P133 for like 10 minutes
22:58.52Twingytextured and bump mapped and stuff, would blow me away
23:00.25MaloeranEheh. It helps that it's assembly written for one very specific purpose, totally not flexible
23:01.03TwingyI'm saying have a little fun and write and old school demo with the tracer in like 16kB :)
23:01.30TwingyI think my libtie is like 9kB
23:01.47Twingythat's 5kB for a 3d world :)
23:01.52Twingythe possibilities are endless!
23:02.26MaloeranI could take a SSE assembly pipeline, and render one highly optimized graph structure stored in the binary, that would fit in a couple kb easily
23:02.35MaloeranExcept, there's not much point :)
23:03.35Twingythere's never a point to them, but damn cool to watch :)
23:03.59MaloeranEheh. I don't really mind if the executable is 4kb of 300kb though
23:04.22Twingythat's still smaller than MSVC++'s hello world app, so that's cool
23:05.44MaloeranI think it was Delphi where the default empty executable was 500kb or so
23:08.00Twingyhmm, I should find out what my pay increase is this week or next
23:55.24Maloeranlittle Italy, even
Jeff Waugh - find it at freshmeat.net! Modified by Tim Riker to work with blootbot logs, split per channel, etc. irclog2html for #brlcad on 20061030

irclog2html for #brlcad on 20061030

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00:04.17brlcadMaloeran: you probably would enjoy visiting around Mt. Washington, there's the Walters Art Gallery, the first Washington monument, some really nice old architecture, the Peabody, some good restaurants, etc
00:05.20brlcadif you head north up Charles, (go left on pratt) and head towards the monument, it's about 10-15 blocks up the street
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02:23.36Twingyok, who wants to donate an old car with fuel injected motor to me
02:24.51brlcadbeen there, done that
02:24.56brlcad6 months too late
02:25.36Twingyaww
02:27.30Twingyhttp://www.nasa.gov/vision/earth/technologies/liquidmetal.html
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13:32.36MaloeranThanks brlcad
13:32.45MaloeranSo ``Erik, when are you guys dropping by?
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13:50.36brlcadMaloeran: i'd expect them both to be there somewhere today
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14:58.49*** topic/#brlcad is http://ftp.brlcad.org (mirror of http://brlcad.org, down for 'maintenance') || BRL-CAD is an open source solid modeling software suite || Developers needed! Read the HACKING file for details on getting involved || Release 7.8.4 is posted, next release will be 7.10.0
16:33.37CIA-5BRL-CAD: 03jlowenz * 10brlcad/ (include/pkg.h src/libpkg/pkg.c): added const string parameters (because they should be const)
Jeff Waugh - find it at freshmeat.net! Modified by Tim Riker to work with blootbot logs, split per channel, etc. irclog2html for #brlcad on 20061031

irclog2html for #brlcad on 20061031

08:23.00*** join/#brlcad clock_ (n=clock@zux221-122-143.adsl.green.ch)
11:50.03clock_What does the "overlap" message mean?
11:50.14clock_Does it indicate any harmful effect?
13:56.01brlcadit's a modelling error that would mean something bad if you were performing an analysis
13:56.10brlcadbut is mostly harmless for ray-tracing
13:56.17``Erikit means two different pieces of solid geometry exist at te same point in space
13:56.31``Erikbrlcad, you making it down this week?
13:56.43brlcadyou can use rt -R to quell the overlap reporting
13:56.52brlcad``Erik: probably later in the week
13:57.01brlcadlike maybe tomorrow and thurs
13:57.04brlcador thurs/fri
13:57.05``Erikok, have you looked at the schedule?
13:57.08brlcadhave to check out the schedule
13:57.12brlcadnope, not yet
13:57.15``Erik<-- off tomorrow, will be down here thurs&fri
13:57.38``ErikI have the dead tree and a dvd, if you want a paper, I can send you the data off the dvd and you can review it
13:57.42``Eriksee if it's worth coming down for
13:59.38brlcadyou can upload the dvd and i'll take a peek, otherwise I was just going to check the schedule that's on-line and flip a coin
14:00.23``Erikfrom looking at the schedule, some of the best stuff seems frontloaded in the week :/
14:00.32``Erikwhen I get home, I'll dig up the dvd and see about making it available to you
14:01.08``Erikif I remember O:-)
14:01.43brlcadheh aiight
14:04.49clock_brlcad: what is the general rule to follow to avoid overlaps?
14:05.07clock_And what actually is the overlap?
14:05.21clock_What is overlapping what?
14:07.07brlcadclock_: as erik mentioned, it means you have two objects physically overlapping in space
14:07.43brlcadwhen you make something a region, that marks it as a real physical object as opposed to just a shape
14:08.46brlcadsay you make a tire (region A) and an axel (region B) and don't line up the axel correctly in the center of the wheel such that it overlaps
14:09.07clock_how do I tell if something is a region or not?
14:09.08brlcadthat's an example, it's something physically inaccurate
14:09.48brlcadthe overlap message spewing out at you will report which two regions are involved
14:09.52clock_I have no regions in my model. Everything ist just combination
14:09.57clock_So there are no regions that could overlap
14:10.15brlcadyou can check if something is a region by looking at the combination and seeing if the region bit is set (combination editor, l command, db get command, other ways)
14:11.44brlcadkeeping track of regions/parts is the subtle difference between solid modeling (where it is very important for analysis) and generic modeling (where it never matters)
14:12.01clock_Well I just did red <the toplevel thing> and it say region:No
14:12.36clock_http://ronja.twibright.com/3d/tetrax.g
14:12.38brlcadthat would be to edit the region, l is more simple
14:13.10``Erikhm, maybe we need a "what is an overlap" faq type thing
14:13.59brlcadyeah, I'd started on a diagram that attempts to explain regions/parts/assemblies/etc some of the confusion is just in the generic terminology
14:14.02``Eriklike, make an example of having two balls, if you push them together, they stop when they collide, so if you define them so they overlap, it's physically impossible and you'd have to do a union if you want that kinda overlap with some sense of reality
14:14.10brlcadi remember having a heck of a time getting what a region was
14:14.23``Erikwell, yeah, but you're slow ;) *duck*
14:14.37clock_brlcad: can a combination contain regions?
14:14.44clock_And if yes, is it a correct practice?
14:14.58clock_Will mged segfault on combination containing regions?
14:15.32brlcadyes it can and yes it's correct practice
14:15.45clock_is solidworks free software?
14:15.50archivistno
14:16.03brlcada combination that contains regions is a "group" (hence the g command and family) or an "assembly" in other parlance
14:16.13clock_can a group contain non-regions?
14:16.24brlcadarchivist: ah, good idea
14:16.31clock_does region and combination differ only by the region flag and material settings?
14:16.37clock_Can a combination have material settings?
14:16.49brlcadclock_: run "rtcheck" and it'll highlight and report on the overlaps
14:16.53clock_If yes, are the material settings of a combination always ignored?
14:17.20clock_I think BRL-CAD needs instructions like the Ronja website is
14:17.37clock_The PDF is lengthy to read and I forget the beginning when I get to the end
14:17.44clock_with examples
14:17.46brlcadthe material settings that you're probably referring to are just optical material settings
14:18.00clock_You can copy my web framework to automatically generate web output for .g models
14:18.14brlcadthe optical material settings can be applied to any object and there's an override, but is irrelevant to overlaps
14:18.39brlcada group can contain non-regions too -- that's still an assembly
14:18.48clock_is group just a special case of something where all operations are union?
14:18.53clock_If yes, special case of what is it?
14:19.28brlcadyes it is, a special case of a combination where all operations are a union
14:20.03``Erikthere's a quick&dirty howto mged thingy, uh, building a birdhouse or something, have you seen that?
14:20.11brlcadgenerally refers to a combination above the region level (i.e. assemblies) though it can be used even to group things below it as well
14:23.31brlcadclock_: there's tons of help that is needed on the "learn how to model with mged" front .. it actually is quite powerful even with the unforgiving interface but is incredibly poorly documented
14:24.02brlcadthat's why I started with the command reference at least, then next is a few requisite diagrams, then perhaps a few simple tutorials
14:24.24brlcadany help is more than welcome ;)
14:24.31brlcadnot short on ideas, just on ....
15:30.16MaloeranSo you are skipping tomorrow, ``Erik?  I really don't see what I am doing here, this has very little to do with what I'm doing or will be doing in the close future
15:30.46MaloeranSo I just code and run out of laptop battery constantly. I should have bought a couple backups
15:37.56clock_brlcad: is group the same as combination made just from unions?
15:38.45brlcadclock_: yes
15:39.08brlcadmerely to maintain one consistent CSG hierarchy
15:39.17brlcadwith only three operators
15:39.38brlcadotherwise another operator would designate the same end effect of having a collection
15:39.52clock_brlcad: should I group primitives into combinations and then make mutually nonoverlapping regions from these combinations and then group the regions using the group command?
15:40.27clock_once I enter the group command there is no way how to tell if the combination was created using "g" or "c"?
15:43.51brlcadclock_: okay, i looked at your geometry and see the problem
15:44.09brlcadyour CSG is technically fine other than you haven't specified *any* regions
15:44.10clock_what is the problem?
15:44.29clock_where it is written that you have to specify at least one region?
15:45.15brlcadlike I mentioned earlier, that gets into something completely fundamental about how to construct proper solid geometry hierarchies if you want to represent something physical
15:45.23brlcadthe distinction between a shape and a solid
15:45.41brlcadyou've described the shapes, but not "made anything" yet
15:45.48clock_so shape is something in the constructer's head and solid is something that is lying on the table, right?
15:45.54brlcadit's covered in the big mged guide over many lessons
15:45.56clock_But why does it raytrace?
15:46.17clock_Yeah but I need something if I have a question then be able to find it in the guide in 3 seconds
15:46.26clock_and not need to read it once more again
15:46.34brlcadright, you got the basic idea .. the shape is like a 3d blueprint
15:46.52clock_If I have an overlap is it going to count that iron twice?
15:46.59brlcadit ray-traces just because what else is it going to do.. it could abort, and that'd be incredibly frustrating
15:47.09clock_aha OK
15:47.31brlcadwhat is happening since you don't have any regions, it's just considering it a default hierarchy
15:47.38clock_Like the weight would show more kilograms because some parts would be made from a double-density iron?
15:47.48brlcadwith the leaves/primitives being considered as regions
15:48.00brlcadso in sym.c for example, you have primitives that "overlap"
15:48.01brlcadand it reports them as such
15:48.06clock_aha
15:48.10brlcadwhen they clearly are intended to be that way
15:48.24clock_Does it also report the hole that is considered a region that it overlaps the plate from which it is cut out?
15:48.30brlcadit's just that sym.c should probably be a region, or create a sym.r region that just has sym.c in it
15:48.35brlcadand the overlaps will disappear
15:48.41clock_or steel.r that has tetrax in it
15:48.51clock_and then say that steel.r has a colour and density of steel
15:49.15brlcada "hole" wouldn't be a region
15:49.16clock_is it correct to make region according to material from which they are made?
15:49.28brlcadyes!
15:49.32clock_why not? The hole is a solid (rcc) and you said that by default all solids are a region
15:49.46clock_can you make a region which is half plastic and half steel?
15:50.10brlcadthe material type is usually a great delimination for regions.. if it's all one contiguous piece of metal (whether welded or not), then it would probably be good as a region
15:50.31clock_can a region be noncontiguous?
15:50.44brlcadyes and no
15:50.48clock_when no?
15:50.57brlcadinherintly, it just has one material identifier per region
15:51.10brlcadyou can tag alternates but nothing in brl-cad is going to recognize what is implied
15:51.27brlcadfor the purpose of computing weights and mass, for example, it just needs to know the density
15:51.31clock_I don't get it. If I make a region that is noncontiguous, is it going to screw up?
15:51.31brlcadwhich is tied to that material type
15:51.49clock_will it say weird messages, return bullshit on weight calculations or segfault?
15:51.53brlcaddepends what you mean by "make a region that is noncontinugous"
15:52.05clock_I mean take two spheres with a gap in between them
15:52.05brlcadmged won't let you technically speaking
15:52.11clock_and them make a region by unioning them
15:52.11brlcadok
15:52.17clock_and saying the region is made of steel
15:52.23brlcadok
15:52.27clock_is it legal?
15:52.32brlcadso far, yes
15:52.43clock_can I run into problems with this approach?
15:53.24brlcadso consider that example, sph1, sph2 .. unioned together in reg.r with reg.r having a material ID set (1 for steel)
15:53.57brlcadyou'll run into a problem if you later union that reg.r into some other reg2.r region
15:54.13brlcadyou're not supposed to do that
15:54.18clock_what kind of problem is it going to be?
15:54.40brlcadmged will let you, but it's potential for overlaps and inconsistent geometry
15:54.44clock_is it legal to make a region from primitives and not from cobinations?
15:55.01brlcadif you walk down the CSG hierarchy, there should always be one and only one region encountered
15:55.04clock_What is inconsistent geomerty?
15:55.07brlcadalong any path
15:55.12clock_aha
15:55.53clock_can I make a region and then group the region and it's mirror into a group?
15:56.01brlcadsure
15:56.01clock_So I duplicate it by reference?
15:56.05brlcadjust don't make the group a region
15:56.14clock_How can I do this without manually editing the matrix?
15:56.41clock_I always do it using vi
15:56.48clock_1 0 0 0 0 1 0 0 0 0 1 0 0 0 0 1 :)
15:56.53brlcadheh
15:57.24clock_and is it legal to include copies by reference?
15:57.41brlcadthe easiest is to model in localized coordiates, in some quadrant, and then mirror about an axis
15:57.54clock_Is Survice going to go out of job when someone writes instructions so that's why there are no instructions?
15:58.06clock_What is localized coordinates?
15:58.19brlcadheh, no, survice is quite set and sound in their business
15:58.27brlcadthey don't make money on the training, it's a wash
15:58.42clock_Let's say I do in part1.s rpp 0 10 0 10 0 10
15:58.56clock_now I want parts.c to be part1.s and part.s mirrored by y axis
15:59.12clock_how do I do this point-and-click, without firing the text editor on the matrices?
15:59.28brlcadmirror part1.s part.s y
15:59.41brlcadc parts.c u part1.s u part.s
15:59.45clock_but that is not by reference
15:59.57clock_if I change part1.s I want both copies to change not just on
15:59.58clock_one
16:00.18brlcadhm, true
16:00.29clock_how do I do this by reference without text editor?
16:00.32brlcadneed a layer in between
16:00.40clock_In text editor it's mentally strenuous
16:00.51brlcadinstead of working on the primitive, put the primitive into a comb, mirror the comb
16:01.27clock_when I change an element of the comb then, it's going to reflect even in the second copy?
16:02.20clock_but if I move the element by matrix edit, it will behave as copy by value and if in prim selection as copy by reference, right?
16:02.52clock_answer in sequence :)
16:03.56brlcadif you have a comb that includes two mirrored objects left.c and right.c and each of those refer to the same side.c, then yes if you modify side.c, it'll update both -- if you edit left.c or right.c, however, it'll only apply to that side
16:04.35clock_can I align objects in mged
16:04.42brlcadwhich is to say that if you edit the matrix over left.c or right.c, yes it'll only apply to them .. but if you modify a matrix in side.c, it'll change both
16:04.56clock_for example say this sphere should touch this cube in the middle of it's face?
16:05.06brlcadalignment is done manually or via assistance with the ADC
16:05.23clock_what is ADC?
16:05.29brlcadthe angle distance cursor
16:05.45clock_it's some kind of 8-way cross isn't it?
16:06.01brlcadyep, hit "a" in the graphics window
16:06.16clock_how do I use it to get a precise alignment?
16:06.24brlcadexplaining how it works is more easily dont with tutorials with the ADC :)
16:06.25clock_Does it some kind of snap capability?
16:06.54brlcadno, it won't do the snapping for you
16:07.12clock_so it has some imprecision given by the visual display limitation?
16:07.19brlcadbut between that and/or using nirt/rtshot you can get the value
16:07.58brlcadyou're wanting parametrics if I'm not mistaken
16:08.07clock_is there a way how to make a hex head or do I need to use a script I wrote?
16:08.19brlcadtrust me that I want them too.. but I want a new modeler environment to use them in too -- mged would be cumbersome with parametrics
16:08.24clock_what is a parametric? I know what a parametric modeling is
16:08.43brlcadparametric modeling uses parametrics
16:08.52brlcadvalues that are reliant upon other values
16:09.03brlcadmaking stuff "snap" or be automatically aligned"
16:09.04clock_aha no
16:09.09brlcadtied to constraints
16:09.25clock_but like in qcad I have point selection where I can opt for automatic snap into line crossing
16:10.01clock_or make a line touching two circles
16:10.01brlcadyep, it's the same thing -- it's just that it only uses the parametric computation to get the value
16:10.43archivistthings like a distance/angle/alignment to a face/line/point/whatever
16:11.29clock_what is the extrude thing? Can it extrude from vector data like dxf?
16:11.35archivistor the spacing is controlled by the item/s in between/outside
16:12.34clock_or extrudes only from bitmaps?
16:12.54brlcadclock_: yes, you provide a sketch primitive and that is extruded to a 3D solid object
16:13.11clock_What is a sketch primitive? A bitmap?
16:13.12brlcadextruding bitmaps is a different primitive (the "ebm")
16:13.35clock_Is sketch primitive some kind of sketch I can draw in mged?
16:13.36brlcadclock_:  you have the mged quick ref on hand?
16:13.41brlcadyes
16:13.42clock_no
16:14.07brlcadhttp://ftp.brlcad.org/MGED_Quick_Reference_Card.pdf
16:14.15brlcadlook at the primitives diagram
16:14.22brlcadin the middle is a sketch primitive
16:14.27brlcadvector-based shapes
16:14.33brlcadabove it is that same shape extruded
16:14.57brlcadif you look at the "BRL-CAD" title in the bottom right, that's an extruded bitmap
16:16.04brlcadyou create sketchs either via import (not sure if dxf fully works) or through the mged sketch editor (which is 'alphaware' and lameish, but usable for simple tasks)
16:16.26brlcadcreate a sketch via the edit menu and it'll kick off the sketch editor
16:16.52brlcadsomeone was working on making that kick off something like qcad instead of mged's sketch editor, but they never finished.. that would be interesting
16:18.29clock_would it be possible to make predefined primitives like a hex or Allen head
16:18.44clock_where one would just type the M-size and it would give the head?
16:18.49clock_I wrote a C code for that
16:19.00clock_I just don't have the standard sizes
16:19.19clock_Or also L, I, C etc. sections would be handy.
16:19.51brlcadsounds like a great little command line tool to include
16:20.28brlcadyou saw the mk_bolt tool yes?  something like that could be extensively improved
16:20.35brlcadstarting with something like your C code
16:21.44clock_Or a thread primitive too
16:21.54brlcadindeed
16:22.01brlcadthat'd be a sweep
16:22.05clock_primitive -> tool
16:22.31brlcada primitive or tool would be good to have
16:22.44clock_can a thread be exacly simulated by existing primitives?
16:22.57brlcaddepends on the thread type
16:22.59clock_With the metric thread proile?
16:23.13clock_The profile is made from circular arcs and lines
16:23.14brlcadand amount of effort you want, it'd use some complex operations
16:23.32clock_onen which could be automated
16:23.33brlcadif it's a non tapering thread, then it's conceivably doable with the pipe primitive
16:23.56clock_I say "Give me Allen head bolt M8x50 with 10mm threadless" and it would do all the tapers and threading :)
16:24.04brlcadyep
16:24.17clock_but is it going to be precise or only an approximation?
16:24.23brlcadmaybe you'll help write a plugin that does exactly that for the new modeler? :)
16:24.38brlcadit should be precise
16:24.45clock_That's great
16:24.54clock_but no I am going to tweak capacitors in my Ronja RX
16:24.58brlcadit really depends on the thread/shaft type
16:24.59archivistbut it also has to do a fusee..... hehe
16:25.06clock_yesterday I bent the waves into the right shape a bit
16:25.12clock_fusee?
16:26.14archivista special type of screw form in a clock
16:29.08clock_Hehe invented in 1525 by Jakub Zech in Prague :)
16:29.31archivistwith your nick you should know clock parts. hehe
16:29.53clock_no I know just clock signal
16:30.17clock_The most reliable thing in a computer system :)
16:30.34clock_Clock never makes a mistake
16:32.03archivistahem theres been a few "clock" errors eg the y2k and the unix one coming up in a few years
16:32.24clock_I mean the clock signal
16:32.38clock_that's a repeating square wave. There's really nothing that can go wrong there
16:32.58archivistskew
16:34.47clock_is it possible to autogenerate input for mged so it would construct like from a program?
16:34.56clock_Or didn't .g have some text alternative?
17:47.45brlcadclock_: sure is
17:48.22brlcadyou can script it using mged/tcl commands or in your language of preference to generate a transript that gets fed to mged
17:48.36brlcador via a program that creates the transcript or ..
17:48.46brlcada program that directly generates the geometry (best option)
17:49.07brlcadexamples in the source distribution, src/proc-db and src/mk among others
18:18.48clock_hehe I didn't know there are any examples in the source distribution
Jeff Waugh - find it at freshmeat.net! Modified by Tim Riker to work with blootbot logs, split per channel, etc. irclog2html for #brlcad on 20061101

irclog2html for #brlcad on 20061101

00:43.20``Erikiie, eriku wa tabenai!!!
00:55.18``Erikjapanese, for "no, don't eat me!"... discussion in another channel... happened to have been in japanese o.O
00:56.41Twingywow, that's appropriate furby talk too
00:56.46Twingydamn I'm good
00:57.11``Erikwell, someone tried to ask me how old I was, but asked if they could eat me instead
00:57.23Twingywas she cute?
00:57.41``Erikd'no... heh, friend of a friend, haven't seen a pic
00:57.59``Erik(and immediately after, I said "unless you do it nice"...)
00:58.04Twingypfft, I'd want to see what they looked like before I let them ask me if they could eat me
00:58.12``Erikheh
00:58.33``Erikso you're not swinging by the harbor to visit alexis?
01:06.33Twingyhe'll be in town again soon enough
01:07.46Twingyplus I'm no fun when I'm tired
01:08.15``Erikheh
01:08.28Twingywanna see an amusing pic?
01:08.32``Erikalways
01:08.36Twingyhttp://js.cx/~justin/images/justin_disney.jpg
01:09.04``Erikis that richard stallman???
01:09.06``Erik:>
01:09.13Twingyall I remember is some little kid was to the right of me asking his mom if that was Gandalf
01:09.16``Erikno, you're not pinching your nose...
01:09.30TwingyI think he was playing grab ass with me
01:09.34Twingymaybe it was john
01:10.12``Erikhehe, john's got himself a semi-sweet deal... 3 days of work a week, obnoxious pay, and none of the mandatory shit
01:10.13Twingylooks like he's holding a joint in his right hand
01:10.31Twingydoobie snacks
01:10.36``Eriktowlie is the gandalf of southpark.
01:14.27``Erikwoops
01:44.51brlcadi think that's Blinn
01:45.00``Erikhahaha
06:43.39*** join/#brlcad Maloeran (n=maloeran@195.139.172.210)
08:05.46*** join/#brlcad ibot (i=ibot@pdpc/supporter/active/TimRiker/bot/apt)
08:05.46*** topic/#brlcad is http://ftp.brlcad.org (mirror of http://brlcad.org, down for 'maintenance') || BRL-CAD is an open source solid modeling software suite || Developers needed! Read the HACKING file for details on getting involved || Release 7.8.4 is posted, next release will be 7.10.0
11:45.05*** join/#brlcad clock__ (n=clock@zux221-122-143.adsl.green.ch)
12:02.10*** join/#brlcad ibot (i=ibot@pdpc/supporter/active/TimRiker/bot/apt)
12:02.10*** topic/#brlcad is http://ftp.brlcad.org (mirror of http://brlcad.org, down for 'maintenance') || BRL-CAD is an open source solid modeling software suite || Developers needed! Read the HACKING file for details on getting involved || Release 7.8.4 is posted, next release will be 7.10.0
15:21.31MaloeranIf the user interface presented by Microsoft research at this conference is used, I pity the future generation of windows users
15:24.17*** join/#brlcad jpjacobs (n=jpjacobs@ace.ulyssis.student.kuleuven.be)
15:24.37jpjacobsdoes anyone have a debian/ubuntu package of brlcad?
15:43.48clock__jpjacobs: I don't but compiling is easy
15:43.59clock__I compiled on Linux and OpenBSD. You don't need additional libraries AFAIK.
15:49.57brlcadjpjacobs: several people have started working on making a package, and I believe one exists for a version from a year or so ago .. but current no there's not
15:50.38clock__brlcad: I found a bug in mged
15:50.59brlcadit is pretty much self-contained, so it should compile off of a source distribution cleanly and fully if you at least have a compiler
15:51.07brlcadclock__: reproducible?
15:52.14clock__brlcad: yes
15:53.01jpjacobsyeah, the compiling, or just extracting the tarball isn't really the problem, but i wanted to just have a deb, so i can manage the file with apt-get instead of a bunch of loose files
15:53.49MaloeranUbuntu doesn't come with anything one needs to compile stuff, you have to install a bunch of packages
15:53.54jpjacobshmm just managed to buid a deb from the tarball i got from sourceforge
15:53.55MaloeranIt's really a painful distribution for programmers
15:54.14jpjacobsyeah i know, there's a meta package for that: build-essential
15:54.28jpjacobsallright, no errors, wish me luck :)
15:57.19clock__Well actually already 2 bugs.
16:00.35clock__Well
16:00.42clock__http://ronja.twibright.com/3d/par_welded_we_s2.png at the right side of the vertical beam an edge is not drawn, although an edge is there.
16:00.46clock__Second bug:
16:00.59clock__http://ronja.twibright.com/3d/tetrax.g
16:01.58clock__Matrix selection, /tetrax/tetrax.c/sym.c/l2.c/li.s, l2.c then it shows nonsense - both pieces are moving synchronously and they should move in a mirrored fashion. When you do an accept then, one of them disappears and reappears only after you type "B tetrax".
16:02.16brlcadjpjacobs: good luck
16:02.43jpjacobsnice. i've got it working! if anyone want's the deb, i could upload it somewhere
16:03.01clock__brlcad: can I consider this bugreported and scratch it out of my TODO list?
16:03.05brlcadjpjacobs: which version did you compile?
16:03.14jpjacobsworking is relative, i still have to add /usr/brlcad/bin to the path ;)
16:03.22clock__brlcad: can you try it out if you can reproduce it?
16:03.25brlcadjpjacobs: you can upload via ftp to ftp.brlcad.org/incoming
16:03.32jpjacobsi didn't, i just got the binairies of sourceforge
16:03.43jpjacobsi can try though
16:03.52brlcader, binaries or source?
16:04.01brlcadsounded like you compiled it
16:04.23jpjacobs(but i warn you i don't know anything about packaging in general, so don't blame me if this breaks things :p)
16:04.51brlcadclock__: yeah, I'm actually not so sure that's a bug as much as it is a setting issue (though certainly undesired behavior)
16:04.59jpjacobsi had both, but the compilingstuff was mainly to get things installed via checkinstall , but that failed
16:05.19brlcadjpjacobs: failed because?
16:06.19brlcadclock__: there's a test in rtedge when determining whether to draw an edge, looking at the depth of the adjacent faces.. in your diagram there, the adjacent are nearly identical and I bet that's why it's not drawing it
16:06.20clock__brlcad: which one are you talking about now to be a setting issue?
16:06.41clock__brlcad: they are not nearly identical there is actually several millimeters space in between
16:06.46brlcadthat value is configurable, albeit maybe only via source.. there should be a run-time configuration for it
16:07.28jpjacobsdunno anymore, it's been a while
16:07.29clock__brlcad: but why does it have to be configurable? Can't it just test if the ray doesn't punch another body or another face of the same body?
16:07.52jpjacobsis 7.8.3 the most recent source release?
16:08.04clock__brlcad: why isn't configured to be more sensitive by default? Would it draw edge everywhere then ?
16:08.24brlcadright, it's a subtle balance
16:08.38brlcadnot everywhere, but more than you'd generally want
16:10.59clock__brlcad: well if it draws bulshitty edges it doesn't matter it's not necessary for Ronja that all edges are perfect it's just to show the shape
16:11.22brlcadcurious, if you draw it larger, does it render the edge?
16:11.27clock__I didn't try
16:11.29brlcadwhat object is that?
16:11.35clock__It's done by scripts
16:11.58clock__http://ronja.twibright.com/3d/par_welded.g
16:12.16clock__object inside "par_welded_we"
16:13.05brlcadhmm.. there's something wrong in that .g
16:13.50clock__As usual, I always manage to make something wrong in the .g files
16:18.02brlcadjpjacobs: if you use the latest posted source tarball (7.8.4 posted at http://sourceforge.net/project/showfiles.php?group_id=105292&package_id=113368)  I'll upload your .deb as a linux download
16:18.25brlcadclock__: it might not be you actually.. I'm using an older version, considerably older -- have to check with a never version
16:18.43brlcadit still brins up par_welded
16:19.48clock__brlcad: "B par_welded_we"
16:20.13brlcadyep, already there
16:21.13brlcadhmm, sure enough some sort of tolerancing issue
16:21.21brlcadit renders the edge zoomed in
16:21.36clock__brlcad: then it's not a bug
16:21.45clock__brlcad: can you look into the other report please?
16:21.53clock__That's actually quite annoying during modelling
16:21.54brlcadlike i said, maybe not a bug but certainly undesired behavior
16:29.44jpjacobsHow do i build brl to have all executable files in /usr/bin instead of /usr/brlcad/bin ? and also the man stuff?
16:30.10brlcadjpjacobs: that's highly not recommended for many reasons right now
16:30.44brlcadaside from the plain reason that it'll end up installing several hundred binaries and several dozen libraries..
16:30.50jpjacobshehe, that's just the opposite that people just told me on #ubuntu :p
16:31.14jpjacobsyeah, ok, but that's no problem if things get managed by apt
16:31.25brlcadthere's also a high probability that one of those binaries or libraries will conflict in name with an existing
16:31.41brlcadmeaning it could clobber something you already have which would be "bad"
16:32.00jpjacobsmmm, maybe i'll just make a wrapperscript to that then... something like brlterm ...
16:32.18brlcadmore likely it'll be a library
16:32.20jpjacobsand put that in /usr/bin
16:32.57brlcadbrl-cad's core libraries, librt, libbu, and libbn have been around for decades, but other projects sometimes have similarly named libraries
16:32.58``Erikheh
16:33.01jpjacobsi mean , just a stupid shellscript that set's the path's right
16:33.21``Erikecho PATH=$PATH:/usr/brlcad/bin >> ~/.bashrc
16:33.22``Erik:D
16:33.23``Erikdone
16:33.31brlcadyou mean scripts installed into /usr/bin pointing to stuff in /usr/brlcad/bin? :)
16:33.45clock__brlcad: did you try my second report?
16:33.55brlcadclock__: i'm still working on your first one
16:34.02brlcador do you really not care
16:34.10jpjacobsno, just a script like /usr/bin/brlterm, that just set's the right paths and then dumps you to a shell
16:34.12clock__brlcad: but you don't have to - I don't care about the first one
16:34.21brlcadclock__: grr
16:34.26clock__That seems to be a design property
16:34.41brlcadwell, at a glance, I'm trying to verify
16:34.43clock__Or do you have an idea how to quickly fix it so that there is no magical constant and it always detects edges properly?
16:34.46brlcadas well as to see if there's a workaround
16:35.25brlcadthere are options that can be set that should help it find that edge
16:35.57``Erikjpjacobs: the only paths you SHOULD need to muck with are the binary path $PATH and the manpage (maybe) $MANPATH, just fix your .bashrc or .profile or whatever?
16:36.55jpjacobsyeah, but like brlcad said, that might conflict with other executables etc
16:37.06brlcadjpjacobs: ahh.. there's actually a todo item to create a "proper" full blown terminal interface that has the environment set up, but that's future work
16:37.13brlcadactually, not quite what I said
16:37.27brlcadinstalling into /usr/brlcad is preferred, and just set the PATH/MANPATH
16:37.28jpjacobsso this thing would only set the path's when you invoke it
16:37.46brlcadakin to /usr/X11R6
16:37.57``Erikwhy make it a script? why not just put the paths in another file, and source it when you want it? heh
16:38.24brlcad``Erik: that's effectively what he's suggesting too :P
16:38.41``ErikI mean, it seems to me like like you want something in the same class as writing ls-l.c to execute ls -l ...
16:38.56``Erikbrlcad: sourcing doesn't spawn a subshell
16:39.26brlcadso?
16:39.30``Eriktreating the ptree like a stack of shells does not seem optimal to me *shrug* :)
16:40.01brlcadhe probably cares about as much as I'd care about that for this purpose :)
16:40.12brlcadthat said, still think it's not a good approach
16:41.30brlcadit should either install into /usr/bin or not, and let usual unix pathing do what it's supposed to do (i.e. update the /etc scripts with new PATH, or assume user will)
16:43.18``Erikhell, I've had accounts on systems where /etc was legitimately in the path... :D
16:44.04brlcadwhat could be useful is an installer script phase for debian/gentoo/freebsd that optionally updates the system paths for you
16:44.27brlcadbut it's still more important to get it working integrated cleanly first imho before doing that
16:44.34``ErikI wouldn't do that for fbsd... :/
16:44.40brlcadhence the optional
16:45.05``Erikthe 'right' way is to have an 'install-user' target which mucks a persons ~/.profile or whatever, or just a pkg-message to tell how to use it
16:45.31brlcadcould have that in addition, but that would be solving a slightly different issue
16:45.44``Erikand that extra mged.sh pedro made is a bit of a headache, heh
16:46.08jpjacobsi think a lot of users don't like mucking with paths, and like the idea of just doubleclicking an icon and getting a nice shell with everything ready to use, maybe even with a nice text printed to get them started :)
16:46.55clock__I hate dealing with paths
16:47.03clock__Different on every system
16:47.16clock__And if you do it wrong it can disappear the next time you restart or upgrade the system
16:47.27clock__Or it can work on text console and not work in X, or vice versa
16:48.09``Erikyeah, a lot of users should put the machine back in the box and return it to the store. o.O
16:48.14``Erik:D
16:48.59``Erikhey, brlcad, does mged have the ability to run all four hundred and something programs of the suite?
16:52.13jpjacobswoohoow, everything compiled right. Does anyone have better scripting skills than I do? (what i come up with is http://ln-s.net/FGP
16:53.43``Erikand how are you planning on calling that?
16:54.52brlcadjpjacobs: the double-clickable option (a brl-cad terminal) is what has my focus, for what it's worth -- that's a solution that is necessary in particular for the gui systems (esp. mac and windows)
16:55.25brlcad``Erik: what do you mean?
16:55.36brlcadyou can invoke any of them with exec in mged if that's what you mean
16:55.46brlcadonly a handful of them are coupled to similar mged commands
16:55.56brlcadprobably a dozen or so
16:56.28``Erikhm
16:56.48``ErikI wonder if they should all be blindly name-linked... (like rt is)... then call the mged shell 'the thing', just launch mged
16:57.21brlcadjpjacobs: if you would, that should say "Everything set up for BRL-CAD", not using the lowercase non-dashed naming
16:57.33``Erikpedant :D
16:57.43brlcadconsistent
16:58.37brlcadit's generally non-trivial to couple the command line commands to a similar mged command
16:58.55brlcadextensively different options and conventions amongst different tools
16:59.25``Erikah, you can't take the argument list and just blindly pass them to the underlying program? like a shell execvp()
16:59.25brlcadand many of them would just be confusing and inconsistent if used inside mged without proper wrapping
16:59.38brlcadlike if I ran mk_wire.. i'd expect it to make a wire object in my current database
16:59.52jpjacobsi've got it almost... any colors for xterm that would go nicely wiht BRL-CAD?
16:59.54brlcadwhereas mk_wire expects a .g and object names, etc
17:00.34brlcadso mged would have to be aware of mk_wire's options format on how to specify the current .g and how to specify object names (some are consistent like the tracers, others aren't)
17:01.08brlcadjpjacobs: you could set a color on .g and .pix files
17:01.59``Erikeenterestink... my 1.25 g4 scores 2127, where the 1.2ghz athlon scores 667
17:01.59jpjacobshow do you mean?
17:03.49``Erikor LSCOLORS
17:04.33jpjacobsit's LS_COLORS aparently
17:04.42``Erikit's different on different os's :(
17:07.47brlcad``Erik: that's a stunningly low score for a 1.2 athlon
17:07.56``Erikum, you don't know what my metric is
17:08.10``Eriknope
17:08.21``Eriknot BRL DASH CAD related
17:08.43brlcadah, so it's a useless metric .. got it ;)
17:09.31``Erik:D ultra-naive raytracer with the goal of being modular so different algorithms for different aspects can be dropped in trivially... this is with the ueber-naive 'acceleration' structure, moller-trombour triangle intersection, and the value is rays per second
17:09.56brlcadhehe
17:09.58``Erik(every ray tests every triangle, keeping the 'closest')
17:12.35jpjacobsjust did the benchmark too, i've got 1597 on my AMD AthlonXP 2600+ (2.05 GHz)
17:12.38brlcadi finally got Zeta to install
17:12.52brlcadjpjacobs: that'd be an unoptimized build :)
17:13.16brlcadyou should recompile optimized, at least it sounds unoptimized
17:13.21jpjacobswell that could very well be (it's just the binarie from sourceforge)
17:13.25brlcadhmmm
17:13.41brlcadthose should be optimized actually, unless someone left off the option
17:13.59``Erikwhat're you running zeta on?
17:14.13jpjacobsnow for the .deb, should i make it with --enable-optimized ?
17:14.25brlcadzeta won't do ppc
17:14.46brlcadwouldn't do parallels either, kept kernel panic'ing in random places
17:15.13brlcadjpjacobs: yes, --enable-optimized and --enable-almost-everything ;)
17:15.45brlcadcan toss in --disable-debug for good measure
17:15.51brlcadbut that's optional
17:18.03``Erikheh, "dooking" http://www.zefrank.com/theshow/#
17:23.14jpjacobsis the enable-almost-everything to be taken literally?
17:23.30brlcadyes
17:23.52CIA-5BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/BUGS: rtedge is not respecting the -c'set' options
17:24.24brlcadthere is such a configure option that enables the compilation of the third-party dependencies (libpng, tcl/tk, urt, zlib, itcl/itk/iwidgets, etc)
17:24.55brlcadotherwise it will autodetect what you have installed, which is potentially different if you wanted to share that .deb with someone else
17:25.56``Erikdebs have dependancy info built in... urt, zlib, and png should be added as dependancies and forced not to build imho... :D
17:32.00brlcadshould, and the official debian .deb request has/had such a thing going iirc
17:32.40brlcadbut then there's still issues running against system tcl/tk/itcl/itk/... that I'm still working on
17:36.20jpjacobs``Erik: well, if you can tell me how i do that, that'll be nice:)
17:45.46jpjacobshmmm almost there with the xterm, lscoloring and path setting thing
17:51.54jpjacobsdamn it, i can't get the lscoloring to get set... very weird. have alook at it at: http://ln-s.net/FGX
17:53.02jpjacobscan anybody give me a list of packages where brlcad depends on?
17:53.49brlcadjpjacobs: ls src/other
17:53.54brlcadthey are included there
17:54.19brlcadthe probablem you'll run into with some of them though, like tcl/tk, is that a system tk is currently non-functional .. close, but not there yet
17:54.59brlcadbut for things like jove and urt and zlib and png and regex, system ones work just as well
17:59.01jpjacobsso i should have tcl/tk compiled in and the rest as dependancy
17:59.37jpjacobsi'm off for dinner
18:04.48brlcadpretty much
18:25.39dtidrow_work``Erik: lol at the 'stinky' opinions
20:16.31jpjacobshas anybody an idea why the lscolloring stuff in my script doesn't work?
20:21.36MaloeranOhh, so that's the raytracer you spoke of writing, Erik :). Okay, I don't feel too threatened yet
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21:01.43clock_brlcad: did you check the second report I told you?
21:01.50clock_Or should I report it into the bug database?
21:07.46clock_brlcad: is it OK to subtract a region from another one or do AND operation?
22:38.42*** join/#brlcad Maloeran (n=maloeran@195.139.172.210)
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22:46.36``Erikhum, per ghz, the naive rt I got here does 874 ray/sec, the g4 does 1700 ray/sec :)
22:58.15MaloeranFeel like trying my ray-triangle intersection test to compare? :)
22:58.30MaloeranIt works best with short ray segments, but you should see a good gain
23:00.13``Erikum, if I give you a function prototype, can y ou give me a .c file easily enough?
23:00.42MaloeranIt requires conversion to a different triangle structure than 3 vertices, but it's simple enough
23:00.58``Erikhrmmmmmm
23:01.20``Eriktell ya what, when I see you tomorrow, I'll have my thumbdrive, we can compare and mess around
23:01.49MaloeranSure
23:01.50Twingyjust think of me as the richard stallman of renewable energy
23:02.46TwingyI'd grow a beard, but it'd increase my coefficient of friction
23:07.19``Erikso you stink a lot? :D
23:08.20``Erikit's cuz you're queerbeqois
23:08.50TwingyDEY TUK HIS JB!
23:08.58``ErikJRB!
23:09.03TwingyJRRRRRR
23:09.09``ErikJJJJRRRRRRRRRB
23:09.15TwingyBACK TO THE PILE!
23:09.32``Eriktwingies a timecist
23:09.46TwingyI'm a confuscist atm
23:10.01Twingyyou'd think 2d math would be easy
23:10.24``Erikdpeends on which two dimensions :D
23:10.48MaloeranErik, there were some interesting talks today about visualization of dynamic fluids, turbulence, vortexes ; the first interesting talks to me so far
23:11.17MaloeranI really should have skipped the first 3 days, had I known that it was all about "Information visualization", or how to draw pretty eye-candy 2d graphs for humans to see huge datasets
23:11.55Twingybut just think
23:12.04Twingywith the knowledge you contain you could write powerpoint++ :)
23:12.20``Erikreally, fluid dynamics are of strong interest to me, heh
23:12.23Twingypowerpoint doesn't have a ray-tracer yet eh?
23:12.25``Erikbut I was running errands all day :/
23:12.30``Erikno, but it has a flight sim...
23:13.25MaloeranSame here, Erik. SURVICE wants me on their fire simulations too apparently, good timing
23:14.44MaloeranFor 3 days now, I feel like eating a huge plate/bowl of fruits, any idea where to find that in Baltimore? :)
23:16.21``ErikI thought I saw a grocery store when we were looking for food on monday, they'd probably have fruit platters in their deli area, or straight fruit
23:16.23MaloeranI wish I could find that. Perhaps what I need is a grocery, not a restaurant
23:16.45MaloeranRight, okay
23:17.24brlcadthere's a grocery about 15 minutes away, albeit not walkable at this time of day now, you'd have to cab it or something
23:17.41MaloeranHow is it not walkable?
23:17.53TwingySUPAH FOOD TOWN!
23:18.43brlcadit's about 15-20 blocks southwest of the inner harbor
23:18.51brlcadalmost due south
23:19.11brlcadwhich would require walking down some rather dark streets
23:19.26brlcadnot something I'd recommend for someone as skinny as you :)
23:19.33Twingyjust buy 100 of those neon light sticks and duct tape them to your body
23:19.45MaloeranI never went anywhere it wasn't "safe" before, this is weird
23:20.03MaloeranI might be skinny, but I made the Montreal games on the 100m and 500m runs not so long ago ;), I can run... fast
23:20.09archivistsounds like a matchstick with the wood scraped off
23:20.12brlcadit's actually pretty safe where you're at
23:20.39brlcadyou might run fast, but I bet a bullet or knife would still catch up quickly enough ;)
23:21.42MaloeranWoah. Understood, I really am surprised
23:21.47brlcadif you had your bike, I'd say go for it .. those neighborhoods around federal hill are pretty safe
23:22.03brlcadit's just a bit much to walk
23:22.20``Erikif you do walk, only care enough money to buy what your'e going to get, keep your stuff in your sock, and try not to be too pretty o.O :D *duck
23:22.48``Erikbut cabbing would be way preferrable or wait until morning *shrug*
23:22.53brlcadseriously, just take a cab and you'll be there in about 5 minutes :)
23:22.58``Erikif I had fruit handy, I'd bring some down
23:23.01Twingyheh, mal looked at me with shock when I told him that some parts of baltimore aren't the safest :)
23:23.25``Erikheh, I've been lost ins ome of those :D
23:23.30``Eriktore the shit out of that pt cruiser... *cough*
23:24.44Twingynever trust google maps through baltimore
23:24.48MaloeranIt's just a fairly different environment. I have never seen a gun in my life, and you talk about these "tools" wandering the streets
23:25.15brlcadheh
23:25.21brlcadnow that I find funny for some reason
23:25.31brlcadwe should go shooting something :)
23:25.33Twingyyou get into the projects with a bunch of crack houses and gangs, what do you expect
23:26.18Twingysoon as the city cleans up a block or two, one or two more show up
23:26.48Twingycompany goes out of business, board up the building, becomes a crack house
23:26.56Twingysimple as that
23:27.20MaloeranIf it's that simple, that should make the police's job very easy
23:27.24brlcadheh, I'm not sure if that says anything about France or just you ability to be naive..
23:27.37Twingymal, the budget can't employe 10,000 police officers
23:28.03Twingyjust be glad you're not in turkey where if you lift up the wrong box it's a bomb
23:28.20brlcadding ding ding, you win! *boom*
23:28.41Twingyschool-mate of mine in college told me some of the horry stories he lived through before moving to america
23:28.47Twingy*horror
23:33.10MaloeranProbably mostly naivety, brlcad :), I think I have become a little wiser since then
23:33.54brlcad:)
23:34.16``Erikgiven what efficiencies?
23:34.42``ErikICE's tend to be horribly inefficient :(
23:35.02``Erikchemical energy vs kinetic energy at the wheel is abysmal
23:38.02Twingy17% efficiency
23:38.04``Erikhydrogen ice, or diesel indirect drive...
23:38.30``Erik(ice == internal combustion engine... heh, I'm an old battletech geek :(  )
23:41.38TwingyWINTER HAVEN, Florida (AP) -- Police Chief Paul Goward was tired of looking around his department and seeing blubber hanging over the belts of some of his officers. So he sent out a memo exhorting the "jelly bellies" to shape up.
23:41.38TwingyIn the end, the department lost 190 pounds -- all of them belonging to Goward. He was forced out as chief because some of his officers took offense at the memo.
23:42.56MaloeranSad.
23:44.50Twingysweet, my pair of palm sized 250 psi compressors just arrived
23:45.00MaloeranDoes "fruit" have a second meaning?
23:45.19``Erikhttp://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=fruit
23:45.35brlcadthe fruit of your loins does, I hope
23:46.04brlcadregardless, that's a piece of fruit I wouldn't touch ;)
23:46.32MaloeranThat is weird
Jeff Waugh - find it at freshmeat.net! Modified by Tim Riker to work with blootbot logs, split per channel, etc. irclog2html for #brlcad on 20061102

irclog2html for #brlcad on 20061102

00:47.50MaloeranOkay, that didn't work. I'm sorry to bother you again with this ; brlcad, where is that grocery of yours?
00:47.52brlcadheh
00:49.05``ErikO.o
00:54.03Twingycrap that thing is tiny
00:54.12Twingy100 psi on a friction fit
01:23.54brlcadMaloeran: this is the place I'm thinking of:  http://tinyurl.com/y6p5oj
01:25.00brlcadin that shopping center is a little supermarket
01:27.26brlcadwhich looks more like 20-30 blocks south and 20 or so blocks east, not what I'd said earlier .. down light street, over e fort ave and you're there (eventually)
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04:32.01brlcadMaloeran: you also might just do better walking up to lexington market.. that's considerably closer and, if/when open (closes at 6pm), usually has an excellent fresh variety of stuff
04:32.06brlcadhttp://www.lexingtonmarket.com/
05:26.26CIA-5BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/TODO: begin 8.0 branch for backwards-incompatible/complex changes
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15:14.23*** topic/#brlcad is http://ftp.brlcad.org (mirror of http://brlcad.org, down for 'maintenance') || BRL-CAD is an open source solid modeling software suite || Developers needed! Read the HACKING file for details on getting involved || Release 7.8.4 is posted, next release will be 7.10.0
19:01.53*** join/#brlcad ``Erik (i=erik@c-69-250-155-85.hsd1.md.comcast.net)
23:23.46MaloeranSo you deserted us Erik? :) Lee's city model isn't bad
23:31.46Twingymmm dessert
23:34.21MaloeranMmm, food
23:42.57``Erikheh, I went into one of the sessions...
23:43.03``ErikI just came out to use the restroom :)
23:43.10``Erikyou guys were gone when I got out there, so'z I went hom
23:50.03``Erikyet still 30 minutes faster than the path lee takes, heh
23:50.05``Eriked++
Jeff Waugh - find it at freshmeat.net! Modified by Tim Riker to work with blootbot logs, split per channel, etc. irclog2html for #brlcad on 20061103

irclog2html for #brlcad on 20061103

00:07.36*** join/#brlcad PrezKennedy (n=Apathy@c-69-140-186-124.hsd1.md.comcast.net)
00:44.02brlcaded++, sounds like vi
00:44.17``Erikheh
00:44.31``Erikbig ed
00:44.33``Erik:)
00:44.35``Erikthe math guru
00:44.59brlcadso he's what vi looks like
00:45.06``Erikkey highway... rough fucking road, horribly rough, I was wincing the whole drive for my poor baby... but far far far faster than 395
00:45.24``Erikbut in ed's cars, it's probably stomachable
00:45.39brlcadheh, i'm on that road just about every day to the boathouse
00:45.49``Erikwhich, key, or 395
00:45.52brlcadyou drove by when you passed over the bridge
00:45.54brlcadkey
00:46.03``ErikI drove from hyatt to 95
00:46.18brlcadyep
00:46.22``Erikand my stupid nav system wigged and tried claiming I was many miles away and facing a different direction, heh
00:46.25brlcadthat'd be the road
00:46.37``Erikso you're not doing the conference, I guess
00:46.42``Erikcuz, u, ain't really shit tomorrow
00:46.45``Erikit's a half day
00:46.54brlcadyeah, not going
00:47.03``Erikwell, if you want ot see the materials, lemme know
00:47.13brlcadyup
00:48.25``Erika LITTLE bit of good material, mal seems to think the later sessions have been getting more beneficial
00:48.44``Erikseing dudes I recognize from siggraph and rt
00:49.51``Erikthere was a german dude at siggraph05 with a bigassed nosering and I THINK blue hair... he has green hair now
00:50.25brlcadheh
00:50.35brlcadthe one that works for nvidia?
00:50.41``Erikummmm, not sure
00:51.28dtidrow_workheh - if so, they probably made him change the hair color to green  ;-)
00:51.34``Erikhahahaha
00:51.41``Erikbut he was wearing black, not white...
00:51.52``Erikstupid fucking nvidia *shakes fist*
00:51.59dtidrow_work???
00:52.05dtidrow_workbetter than ati
00:52.26dtidrow_workat least for non-Windows users
00:52.29``Erik(they flew me down for an interview, I was nervous so I didn't eat or sleep for over 24 housr before the interview start... and I blew it, and they didn't hire me... :D so I'm shakin' my fist)
00:52.45``Erikin '01
00:52.45dtidrow_workah
00:53.02dtidrow_workthey seem to be rather hard up for people now, so try again  ;-)
00:53.36``Erikmost of them were asking how much experience I had in smp driver writing, and all my machines were sp, not mp... I mean, all I had was theory and some userland on a dual fbsd
00:54.02dtidrow_workah
00:54.56dtidrow_workyeah, haven't bothered to try with nvidia, don't have enough raw OpenGL or driver experience for them to be interested
00:55.05``Erik<-- was porting their linux driver to fbsd, ran into a wall with ioctl issues (nvidia exploited a 'weirdness' in linux)
00:55.16``Eriknot a d3d guy, dti? :D
00:55.34``Erikthey've been cooking in general mb's and audio stuff, too
00:55.54``ErikI wouldn't be surprised if they don't start pushing cpu's of some breed soon
00:56.10``Erikespecially given the recent ati/amd "fusion" chip announcement
00:56.16dtidrow_workd3d?  yeecch
00:56.47dtidrow_workdoesn't do anything useful that OpenGL doesn't also do
00:57.06``Erikintel can't get in bed with nvidia like that, though, the 'corporate desktop' is an intel cpu and ati video
00:57.39dtidrow_workno, it's an intel cpu and integrated video on the intel chipset
00:58.02``Erik<-- hardcore fbsd/mac guy, with strong ties to solaris and aix... won't argue with ya on d3d...
00:58.21``Erikhum, the corporate desktops I've almost always seen... always had... were dells with intel cpu's and ati video
00:58.34dtidrow_worknot anymore
00:58.49dtidrow_workat least not integrated on mobo
00:58.55``ErikI've been workin' gov't for the last 3 and some change years...
00:59.00``Erikso I'm not on the cutting edge anymore
00:59.11``Erikwe're able to sneak macs in, so I'm happy
00:59.28``Erikand so far with the dulls, i've been able to wipe winderz and install some variant of bsd...
00:59.46dtidrow_workheh, neither am I - this Dell is over four years old now
01:00.02dtidrow_workthough it does only have FC4 on it  :-)
01:00.23``Erikmy impression was taht the i810's and i815's were for lamer home users, and low end radeons were corporate
01:00.36``Erikew, not just linux, but a redhat breed, my condolances
01:00.56``Erikif you *HAVE* to use linux, why not debian? or mebe gentoo... haven't tried gentoo...
01:01.18dtidrow_workbecause it does what I need it to do, and I'm not an elitist
01:01.21dtidrow_work:-p
01:01.30``Erikehhehehe
01:01.56``Erikok, I do to much kernel shit, and I come from a security style background... so, uh, no linux... does... what I want...
01:02.57``Erik:)
01:18.51PrezKennedysecurity is why windows rocks
01:19.01PrezKennedysorry... cant say that with a straight face
01:32.25dtidrow_workrofl
01:33.05dtidrow_work(just got back to my desk) - PrezKennedy, you owe me a new keyboard  ;-)
01:33.30dtidrow_workunless I can clean the Mt. Dew out of this one...
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02:48.21DarkMasterwatch out, mountain dew is dangerous
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12:52.33*** topic/#brlcad is http://ftp.brlcad.org (mirror of http://brlcad.org, down for 'maintenance') || BRL-CAD is an open source solid modeling software suite || Developers needed! Read the HACKING file for details on getting involved || Release 7.8.4 is posted, next release will be 7.10.0
13:23.58``Erikalexis
13:24.01``Erikwe are here
13:24.17``ErikI'm at the round table in the upper lobby
13:25.29``Eriklee is looking for you
13:54.50clock_brlcad: I sent another hefty segfault into the bug database
13:55.09clock_brlcad: did you look into my second report from yesterday where objects were improperly mirrored during editation?
13:58.46brlcadclock_: yes, I saw them both -- thanks
14:00.39brlcadit'll take a while to investigate both of them fully, but you did a good bit of the leg worth providing the stack trace
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16:10.38clock_brlcad: is there a way when I have a cylinder that was subject to manual extension, rotation and translation, to figure out how tall it is?
16:11.10clock_brlcad: I built a truss from 10mm cylinders and now I want to know how long the key pieces are to be able to start welding in the right proportion
17:26.41brlcadclock_: yes, do an l on the object -- you can get the height by looking at the H magnitude value or computing the distance between V and Top
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Jeff Waugh - find it at freshmeat.net! Modified by Tim Riker to work with blootbot logs, split per channel, etc. irclog2html for #brlcad on 20061104

irclog2html for #brlcad on 20061104

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04:07.53MaloeranHum. I don't think I had realized how messy my appartment was before I lived a week in a hotel suite
04:43.59Twingyyou can clean my room up when you're done
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Jeff Waugh - find it at freshmeat.net! Modified by Tim Riker to work with blootbot logs, split per channel, etc. irclog2html for #brlcad on 20061105

irclog2html for #brlcad on 20061105

02:26.52CIA-6BRL-CAD: 03johnranderson * 10brlcad/src/mged/red.c: Improved error checking
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04:44.42Noobiecan anyone get me past the ./configure portion of the install
04:45.17Noobiei don't know if I can even get there i'm using Knoppix as my OS
04:53.13Noobiecan anyone help?
04:53.43NoobieI will try again later
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05:27.30``Eriko.O
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13:40.38MaloeranErik, this ray-triangle benchmark of yours is completely broken
13:41.12MaloeranI print out planes from the test, and I get a bunch of 0.0 equations, leading to infinities and NaNs ; obviously it's slow
14:17.50Twingyhe's ray-tracing imaginary planes, duh
14:27.06MaloeranI would fix the code but that's just one of several things that don't seem quite right in there...
14:33.47Twingyconsider yourself a code archaeologist then, fixing remnants of the past
14:34.45TwingyI'd say similar to the myth busters, but they have a habit of taking 500 year old technology and making it worse
15:41.25MaloeranHrmph. The public letter of Husseim to the united states contain way too many religious believes and statements, which is not technically a good move when dealing with followers of different... hypothesises
15:55.35Twingyhypotheses
16:27.23MaloeranThanks
16:28.12TwingyI have soooo many optimizations to do in gcam it's daunting
16:28.19TwingyI have no motivation to do it either cause just about everything is instantaneous
16:28.39MaloeranEheh, nice. It has been some time since I had wrote this kind of software
16:29.00Twingyall 2d intersection math so far
16:29.00Twingy2.5 dimensional
16:29.19Twingyafter getting this far with the project, you could transform just about any CAD package file format into a CAM ready file format if ordering is preserved
16:29.19MaloeranNeat
16:29.29Twingybut nobody seems to do that
16:29.37Twingyorder is not preserved and hence individuals have to come up with elaborate algorithms to figure out what the designer was thinking at the time of modeling because it was lost
16:29.41TwingyI wouldn't be surprised if there are some cad packages that preserve this
16:29.42Twingypreserved in a manner that was originally intended, not derived from a timestamp or something that just "happened" to be there
16:29.42Twingythe disconnect between BRL-CAD and CAM is huge
16:29.42Twingyyou'd need g-code
16:29.42Twingyeven something as 'trivial' as a box requires breaking it into layers, computing offsets, adding depth to break the part away at the end
16:29.43Twingyyou might end up with 500 lines of g-code for a box
16:29.43Twingyespecially if it's steel
16:29.43Twingyfoam might be 50 - 80 lines
16:29.43MaloeranWhy the difference between steel and foam?
16:30.23Twingysteel is slightly less hard than the end-mill (carbide usually) and therefore requires that you be very slow and conservative on your cuts otherwise you risk causing the stepper motors to skip a 'step' (1.8/20 deg) or cause and end-mill to snap
16:30.25Twingyit's always a function of the end-mill, mill cnc steppers, and material being cut
16:30.25MaloeranOkay. I wouldn't have thought going very slow would require 10 times more code
16:30.27Twingyit's a multidimensional problem
16:30.27Twingyand smaller the end mill doesn't necessarily mean you can cut faster
16:30.28Twingythere is a curve, once you hit about 1/8" you have to start slowing down
16:30.28Twingyotherwise you will snap it
16:30.28TwingyMaloeran, your layers are .001" instead of .01"
16:30.29Twingyeach layers requires 4 or more lines of g-code, depending on tapering
16:30.29MaloeranRight, okay
16:30.30Twingyso as you can imagine you have machine profiles and endmill profiles
16:30.31Twingyso that the software can figure out 'safe' operating limits
16:30.31Twingythe g-code driving software is stupid
16:30.31Twingyit doesn't care if you try to make it go 100km/h with a 2cm diameter endmill
16:30.32Twingyit doesn't even know what the tool diameter is
16:30.32MaloeranWell, it's low level and does what it's told I am assuming ; which is a good thing
16:30.33Twingyyep
16:30.33Twingynow emc has tried to bridge that gap
16:30.33Twingyand make the driver smarter
16:30.34Twingya little too smart in my opinion
16:30.34MaloeranYou probably lose some flexibility that way
16:30.34Twingywell, if you have a good cam package, all you need is a stupid driver
16:30.35Twingyif you have a crappy cam package, or you do g-code by hand (gasp) you need a smart driver
16:30.35Twingygcam is like a g-code compiler
16:30.35Twingyby pure definition, it's a compiler
16:30.36MaloeranEheh yes, a visual compiler in some ways too
16:30.36Twingyright
16:31.14Twingywith like 8 asm instructions :)
16:31.23Twingyvery analogous to coding an 8-bit pic chip
16:31.49Twingydoing floating point math (your csg cube) can be done, but it requires many instructions
16:37.17TwingyI suppose at some point one will be able to measure the efficiency of their code by the number of electrons required to solve the problem
16:41.37MaloeranI don'T think it is possible to compute the minimal electron count required to implement an algorithm within a context of hardware processing
16:59.57Twingytoday's current hardware, no
17:00.48Twingya practical measurement for today would be something around nano watts
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17:10.23Noobieis anyone available?
17:10.46NoobieI need some help installing brlcad
17:11.06Noobiei'm using Knoppix as my OS so I'm not even sure if it is possible
17:22.37Twingyjust idle until you find somone
17:24.29Noobiewill do
18:30.19Noobiegotta go... out
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23:08.11``Erikme too, when I play games.. but I did that before with my c64, heh :D
23:09.06TwingyI envision in like 20 years this disturbing looking cable with like 17 adapters on it
23:09.21Twingysticking 3 feet out of the back of the computer
23:09.27Twingyangled 30 degrees
23:09.35Twingyheld in with duct tape
23:10.10Twingywhose combined processing power is 1 week of a C64 just to send a character code
23:13.23``Erikhehehe
23:13.43``ErikI have new ps2 kbd's, but I like my old mitsumi precision din kbd a lot more *shrug*
23:14.12``Eriktho I do like the apple clear&white usb kbd's a lot
23:17.32Twingyyes, they are good
23:17.43TwingyI'm just amazed this natural touch has lasted under such abuse
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Jeff Waugh - find it at freshmeat.net! Modified by Tim Riker to work with blootbot logs, split per channel, etc. irclog2html for #brlcad on 20061106

irclog2html for #brlcad on 20061106

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18:12.32``Erikhttp://shadowdane.shackspace.com/cats.htm
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Jeff Waugh - find it at freshmeat.net! Modified by Tim Riker to work with blootbot logs, split per channel, etc. irclog2html for #brlcad on 20061107

irclog2html for #brlcad on 20061107

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19:21.23MaloeranErik, could you some time give me debugging information on that big endian graph cache loading crash thing?
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Jeff Waugh - find it at freshmeat.net! Modified by Tim Riker to work with blootbot logs, split per channel, etc. irclog2html for #brlcad on 20061108

irclog2html for #brlcad on 20061108

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01:49.53Twingysiggraph 2007 advertisement
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Jeff Waugh - find it at freshmeat.net! Modified by Tim Riker to work with blootbot logs, split per channel, etc. irclog2html for #brlcad on 20061109

irclog2html for #brlcad on 20061109

01:40.22``Erik(any anything with a bang is worth thinking twice about)
01:40.27``Erikwoops, wrong chan
01:44.08brlcadbang skippy
01:44.42``Erik! in scheme means side effect, which means no referential transperancy, ... eliminates several categories of optimizations
01:45.37brlcad!printf(!hogwash)
01:46.09``Erikthat's C, not scheme
01:46.11``Erik...
01:46.29brlcadnot really, just banging
01:49.44Twingyis some one going to hand to hand prasad a torch tomorrow?
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18:43.41``Erikhttp://antibody.za.net/backstrokeofwest/
18:44.56brlcadcaptions there be, mangled cool they are
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23:29.22pra5adgah
23:29.32pra5adthis new xchat has no users list
Jeff Waugh - find it at freshmeat.net! Modified by Tim Riker to work with blootbot logs, split per channel, etc. irclog2html for #brlcad on 20061110

irclog2html for #brlcad on 20061110

00:19.51Twingyyes it does
00:19.58TwingyI think you have to turn it on
00:20.02Twingyor drag the divider
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01:43.36brlcaddtidrow_work: working late?
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Jeff Waugh - find it at freshmeat.net! Modified by Tim Riker to work with blootbot logs, split per channel, etc. irclog2html for #brlcad on 20061111

irclog2html for #brlcad on 20061111

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03:34.53Twingyhrm
03:35.00Twingylogging into a mailbox with pine that hasn't been checked in 2 years might not be good
03:35.37Twingy<PROTECTED>
03:36.19Twingythat's 11 months of mail
06:22.03brlcadhehe
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Jeff Waugh - find it at freshmeat.net! Modified by Tim Riker to work with blootbot logs, split per channel, etc. irclog2html for #brlcad on 20061112

irclog2html for #brlcad on 20061112

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19:31.49brlcadtest34: failed?
19:49.09b0efwould be nice if focus didn't follow mouse
19:49.45b0efit makes M-TAB impossible
19:51.35test34brlcad, no nothing else failed, I didnt get to it again yet
19:54.10brlcadb0ef: that's usually something controlled by your window manager, and easily turned off (or use a different window manager that does disable it)
19:54.34brlcadtest34: twas but a joke based on your nick :)
19:54.56test34brlcad, ahhh ok;)
19:55.40b0efbrlcad: but why does this only happen with brlcad?
20:24.05brlcadb0ef: which platform are you on?
20:24.40b0efbrlcad: GNU/Linux with metacity-2.12.1
20:25.13brlcadand focus doesn't follow mouse if you move to another app?
20:26.06b0efbrlcad: well, in a way, but with brlcad it's impossible to M-TAB the command window when the cursor is in the model window
20:27.04b0efbrlcad: I have to move the mouse over the command window every time I want to enter a command
20:28.43b0efbrlcad: am I making myself clear?
20:30.44brlcadah, yes
20:31.11b0ef;)
20:31.14brlcadthen the complaint really is that it's one a unified window but instead several independent windows ;)
20:31.23brlcader, that it's not one window
20:31.47b0ef?, not sure I follow
20:32.00b0efI really like the separation of windows
20:32.36brlcadinput-wise, what you're wanting is something like having two browser windows open, typing in one but have it show up in the other ;)
20:32.53b0efyes
20:33.02brlcadjust that these windows happen to look/behave different
20:33.04b0efI intend to use emacs as my input window when I get to it
20:33.32b0efI'm not sure if we're talking past eachother;)
20:33.45brlcadknow, I think I get what you're wanting..
20:33.52brlcadhow to get there is unclear
20:34.14b0efI want two separate windows, gimp style
20:34.22b0efI thought this was the intention;)
20:34.57b0efbut they behave like they somehow have a relationship;)
20:35.03brlcadit is, though individual windows don't generally aquire focus in gimp
20:35.14brlcadaside from the main context ones
20:35.29brlcadthe difference here is that there are two main context windows always
20:35.47brlcadwith different bindings for each
20:36.06brlcadif the graphics window didn't have key bindings, it'd be easy.. you'd just pass it all through to the command window
20:36.34brlcadwhat if there were something like a command window toggle
20:37.00b0efwell, I really intend to use emacs for brlcad, but have gotten that far, yet
20:37.00brlcadlike hitting M-c would switch focus or something
20:37.35brlcad"use emacs for brlcad" can mean a whole lot of things
20:37.49b0efyeah, that would work, but is it not possible to make M-TAB work?
20:37.51b0efwell, a brlcad mode
20:37.59b0efinstead of using the command window
20:38.55brlcada geometry major mode for emacs would be sweet
20:39.01b0ef;)
20:39.11brlcadlooked into it a little bit years ago, but never got off the ground
20:39.46brlcadsomething akin to tar mode would work well for dealing with .g files in emacs
20:41.47b0efis verse something planned for brlcad?;)
20:43.55b0efmaybe a bit premature;)
20:45.09brlcadyou mean using verse itself to communicate
20:45.17brlcador distributed modeling in general?
20:45.34b0efdistributed modeling;)
20:45.43brlcadahh, yes that is planned
20:45.52brlcadthough whether verse would be used remains to be seen
20:46.23brlcadthere are several rather viable approaches including verse for the communication backend
20:47.54b0efhow about making brlcad a daemon?
20:49.23b0efthen connect interfaces like mged
20:50.08b0efand OSC for command protocol;)
21:04.27brlcadb0ef: that's actually not far off how it currently behaves
21:05.04brlcadand is exactly what the new interface will do as well, though with a more rigorously defined interface
21:05.35brlcadOSC?
21:05.42brlcadoperations support command?
21:06.50brlcador the sound communications protocol?
21:24.45b0efbrlcad: excellent;)
21:24.59b0efbrlcad: yeah, the sound protocol
21:25.33b0efthe sound in the name is a little misleading;)
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Jeff Waugh - find it at freshmeat.net! Modified by Tim Riker to work with blootbot logs, split per channel, etc. irclog2html for #brlcad on 20061113

irclog2html for #brlcad on 20061113

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Jeff Waugh - find it at freshmeat.net! Modified by Tim Riker to work with blootbot logs, split per channel, etc. irclog2html for #brlcad on 20061114

irclog2html for #brlcad on 20061114

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08:08.43brlcadMaloeran: ping
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08:49.32brlcadMaloeran: if you happen to have a nice screenshot handy, I could use it -- something benign but interesting
08:50.13brlcadplus I'm looking at formulating rough performance bounds in terms of rays/s for comparison purposes
08:50.26clock_brlcad: what is the meaning of the second number on matrix line?
08:50.34clock_Is it input X output Y or input Y output X?
08:51.06brlcadMaloeran: librt sits at roughly 100k to 1M, adrt at 500k to 5M, rayforce at ?
08:51.45brlcadMaloeran: also would it be okay to provide a link to your site (rayforce.net)?
08:52.00brlcadclock_: what matrix line?
08:52.50clock_brlcad: if you edit matrix in a text editor, it is on a line as a sequence of 16 numbers
08:53.06brlcad4x4 matrix, homogeneous coordinates
08:53.23clock_what is the meaning of the second number on matrix line?
08:53.59brlcadstill not sure if you mean the second of 16 or some other line?
08:54.05clock_second of 16
08:54.11brlcadit's 16 values that form the 4x4 matrix
08:54.35clock_the second value is not 16 values. The second value is just one value.
08:54.57brlcadthat's not what I was saying
08:55.09clock_what is the meaning of the second number on matrix line?
08:55.30brlcadi'm saying it's a 4x4 transformation matrix :) .. so the second value is simply the second element of that matrix
08:56.07clock_it's good to know that the second element is a second element
08:56.32brlcadto say that is "is" anything other than that would be rather misleading
08:56.36clock_but what is the meaning?
08:56.46clock_the meaning of the first element is input X output X
08:57.04brlcadif applied to a vector in a multiplication, it has one effect, if applied via some different operation, it has a different result
08:57.04clock_but the meaning of the second element may be input X output Y, *OR* input Y output X
08:57.13clock_Depending if you scan the matrix by rows or by columns
08:57.17clock_So what is the meaning?
08:59.10brlcadi'm still not understanding where you're getting input and output from
08:59.18brlcadinput to what? output to what?
08:59.32clock_It is a transform matrix, right?
08:59.38brlcadyep
08:59.42clock_That means it's a matrix that defines some transform.
08:59.51brlcadnaturally
08:59.58clock_Transform is something where you throw something in, and something else falls out
09:00.17brlcadthat's one way to look at it I suppose
09:00.18clock_We can imagine it like a box which has a funnel at the top and holet at the bottom
09:00.28clock_We take a point in 3D space and throw it into the funnel
09:00.35brlcadi tend to think of a transform as something you apply, and you get a result
09:00.37clock_Some other point in 3D space falls out from the bottom
09:00.50clock_Now how the transform works inside
09:01.10clock_When the point falls into the funnel it's taken apart into X, Y and Z coordinates
09:01.18clock_like 3 drinks
09:01.34clock_and there is a bartender inside which mixes the input 3 drinks into 3 output drinks
09:01.47brlcadi think you're perhaps just used to characterizing it how you've come to understand/visualize it as opposed to the actual operations that go on
09:01.53clock_The matrix tells him how much of each input drink should go into each output drink
09:02.06brlcadthere are tons of ways to conceptualize it
09:02.20clock_He has kinda table, where he has "input drinks" and "output drinks"
09:02.30clock_This table is called the transform matrix
09:02.36clock_You took the table and flattened it out
09:02.56clock_However there are two ways how to flatten. You can read it like a book, or read it like Chinese do - by columns
09:03.00brlcadi don't think you're listening
09:04.02clock_You are unable to answer the question whether the second number of 16 has meaning "coefficient for propagation of input X into output Y" or "coefficient of propagation of input Y into output X".
09:04.20clock_That's a basic knowledge of how affine transformations work, sorry
09:05.43brlcadheh, whatever .. i'm pretty sure it's just a difference of semantics and language familiarity
09:05.55clock_But I want to know it, because without this knowledge I cannot produce the right sequence of 16 numbers for a given transform
09:06.14clock_If you cannot tell me that, I will have to perform an experiment in brl-cad
09:06.27clock_Or, alternatively
09:06.31brlcadi think you're just asking is element two on the second column or the second row, and the answer would be it's the second row
09:06.40clock_we have a transform that transforms (x,y,z) into (x+y, y, z)
09:06.49clock_What sequence of 16 numbers corresponds to this transform?
09:07.20clock_Knowing the row or column is not enough
09:07.38clock_There are 2 ways how matrix multiplication can be defined, which differ by swapping rows and columns
09:07.52brlcadalong with the fact that it's a right-handed coordinate system
09:07.56clock_What sequence of 16 numbers corresponds to the transform (x,y,z) -> (x+y, y, z)?
09:11.18clock_brlcad: can you please figure it out?
09:20.05brlcadactually, i'm just in the middle of preparing a presentation, while trying to placate your oddly worded question... how to apply a matrix seems rather obvious .. even with your case, it's not clear how to relate the matrix elements to your question exactly -- the diagonal is along elements 0, 5, 10 (and 15 for homogenity) -- if I understand you correctly, the matrix would be something like 1 1 0 0  0 1 0 0  0 0 1 0  0 0 0 1
09:22.07clock_I think it's completely clear
09:23.13clock_so if you put this matrix into a combination, the element of the combination will be transformed so that point (1,1,1) in the original element will map onto (2,1,1)?
09:24.17clock_This is so typical for mathematicians - they can calculate 1+1 by integral, but if you ask them "which of your hands is right and which left", they reply "I don't think I understand your question completely"
09:29.31clock_brlcad: if a point is transformed by matrix in brl-cad, is it put into a matrix 3 high and 1 wide, or 3 wide and 1 high?
09:36.52clock_Does it make sense if the last 4 numbers are anything else than 0 0 0 1?
09:39.08brlcadtechnically, all vectors (and matrices) are stored via regular C arrays, so 3 "wide" would probably be how you'd interpret that if that's how you conceptualize int a[10]; as being 10 wide
09:39.42brlcadyes, it "can" make sense, but rarely is anything but homogeneous
09:44.17brlcadthe biggest difference with your question earlier is that really there is more than one way to think about it -- you have found one way that you are comfortable with that works for you but that is by far not the only way to think about it and/or word it
09:45.00brlcadall just a matter of perspective
09:45.01clock_Well let's formulate the question more precisely
09:45.01clock_If I edit a combination, the combination can consist of several elements.
09:45.15clock_Each element has a line. That line holds a sequence of 16 numbers which define a transformation
09:45.36clock_Element is taken, transformed by that and then processed by logical operators in the combination.
09:46.20clock_So does the 2nd number mean how X of the original element is mapped into Y of the processed one, or vice versa?
09:46.43clock_You cannot say "it's a matter of perspective now", because then the behaviour of BRL-CAD would depend on perspective of it's user, which it doesn't
09:46.44brlcada 4x4 homogeneous tranformation to a right-hand ruled coordinate system where +z is in the up direction
09:47.00brlcadthat alone should be enough information
09:47.17clock_No it isn't.
09:47.31clock_I can construct 2 interpretations of this that produce different results with the same sequence of 16 numbers
09:48.02brlcadwhat is this second interpretation that is not left-hand ruled?
09:48.31clock_First interpretation is that the points are put into vectors that are standing
09:48.36clock_second that they are lying
09:48.37brlcadknowing that the values are perhaps not interlaced, are in incremental order by rows
09:48.42clock_Then the matrix has different effect on the points
09:49.07clock_Still, the effect is dependent on if the points are fed into standing vectors or lying vectors
09:49.22brlcadyou're referring to the actual storage I think, which could be either way
09:49.40brlcadi.e. if I have int a[4][4];
09:49.54brlcador similarly int a[16];
09:49.57clock_you can tranform vector v as
09:50.01clock_vA or Av
09:50.15clock_in the first case v is a lying vector, in the other a standing one
09:50.40clock_Depending on which case you use, the same matrix A has different effect on the v
09:50.41brlcadwhich therein I think perhaps shows the discrepancy
09:50.56clock_The same matrix represents a different transformation
09:51.03brlcadon paper it makes a difference, in code it only really works one way
09:51.16clock_And I am just asking which way ;-)
09:51.22brlcadand int a[3] doesn't have to be thought of as being wide or tall
09:51.32brlcadit's just three values in order
09:52.01brlcadvA can work as can Av .. it's up to use that determines which you get
09:52.06clock_Let's define cube.s which is rpp 0 1 0 1 0 1
09:52.17clock_then c combo.c cube.s
09:52.27brlcadi'm sorry, I shouldn't have gotten started
09:52.35brlcadit's way too late to keep going on this track here
09:52.44clock_OK good luck with presentation
09:52.57brlcadwednesday
09:53.03brlcadbut dry run tomorrow
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16:01.06``Erik*yawn*
16:05.18``Erikbrlcad: rayforce gets about 1.7-1.8 mil ray/sec on a 2.0ghz g5 (no altivec, single thread) on 267534 triangles, and 4.5-8 mil ray/sec on an opteron with sse (still single threaded)
16:07.45``Erikand in the neighborhood of 25k-29k lines of code, depending on which program you ask
16:20.46Maloeranbrlcad, screenshot like http://www.rayforce.net/smooth000.png perhaps?
16:21.37MaloeranHow much ram does an o200 have?
16:22.24MaloeranYou sure can provide a link to rayforce.net if you want, it's currently redirected to some draft of website put together by Survice
16:22.25``Erikthe one I'm thinking have has I think 1.2g
16:22.52``Erik1.125g, actually
16:22.57``Erikand TWO 180mhz r10k processors
16:22.58``Erik:D
16:23.05MaloeranWoohoo
16:47.10pra5adwhat fps rate do u get for that m1a1
16:48.18``Erikit's gone
16:48.25MaloeranDepends of the resolution, light sources, sampling, normal smoothing...
16:48.29``Erikand it was an a2
16:48.59pra5adfor that screenshot
16:49.00``Erikrfdemo just does primary ray and flat shading, no shadow rays or anything, right mal?
16:49.25MaloeranRight, I didn't import this code yet
16:50.15MaloeranI think it was 6-8fps on my amd64 desktop, single processor
16:50.26``Erikso on a 2.0ghz single core opteron, with one light source and shadoing, probably ~7fps at 800x600
16:50.40pra5adah
16:51.04MaloeranErik, the a2 is _much_ lighter than the truck
16:51.23MaloeranThe truck is saturated of long thin packed triangles that are difficultt o handle
16:51.59``Eriklong thin triangles are a fact of life. :(
16:52.04MaloeranYou really have to put ADRT on that model too if you want to compare
16:52.12``Erikyeah, and rt
16:52.25MaloeranIt happens with converted CSG models, but modellers don't generally produce that kind of geometry
16:52.44``Erikprobably happens with converted tnurbs, too
16:53.07``Erikoutside of the game world, geometry generally comes in tnurb or csg as far as I can tell
16:53.33MaloeranThe CSG converter also leaves "gaps", apparently tesselating two distinct but connected curved surfaces differently and it creates small gaps
16:53.42``Erikoh crap, I left my slippers at home :/
16:54.02``Erikgaps and overlaps, yes
16:54.20``Erikespecially how we do the tnurb to triangle conversion
16:54.24``Erik:/
16:54.41MaloeranI mean serious gaps, covering the whole viewport if I zoom enough, not just some numerical problems that the raytracer would correctly handle
16:55.00``Erikyes... serious gaps... many mm...
16:56.21``Erikif you took a manhole, tesselated the ground with, oh, 20 edges (say 40 triangles for the outter rim), and tesselated the cover with 40 triangles but started from a different orientation, there would be serious gapping and overlapping... annnddddd that's what we get on curved surfaces with the current solution :)
16:56.52MaloeranI see, understood
16:57.44MaloeranCurved facets wouldn't quite solve the manhole situation though. Tricky thing
16:59.45MaloeranMy current curved facets make all points of an edge being aligned on a plane, plane which can be oriented in any direction
17:00.35MaloeranNon-planar edges could actually work
17:03.21``Erikmeh, just add dimensions until everything is planar ;)
17:04.01MaloeranSeriously, we could have curved facets with non-planar edges, the math wouldn't be that slow
17:05.21Maloeran4 curved facets can make a sphere. One curved facet with non-planar edge could make a perfect... circle
17:05.57``Erikmmm a perfect circle... *looks through his playlist*
17:10.19MaloeranHrm sorry, not a perfect circle, of course. That would require some expensive extra steps that should probably be avoided for the sake of performance
17:25.00``Erikbut the band is still cool
18:06.29CIA-21BRL-CAD: 03erikgreenwald * 10brlcad/include/machine.h: fix for fbsd7/sparc64 (hopefully)
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23:42.01brlcadMaloeran: that'll work quite nicely, thanks
23:43.08brlcadand given erik's numbers, it sounds like i'm in the right ballpark of 1-10M depending on the model and other factors
23:45.40brlcadwhich is to highly estimate a lower bound if more lights and shading effects were to be enabled, full pass thorugh rays, etc
23:48.29brlcadstill coming out way ahead, and keeps expectations sensible given the audience
23:49.55brlcadMaloeran: I have to ask given the image, but is it safe to assume that image is okay for release .. it's not a model that was provided to you by someone at arl or survice, I hope?  otherwise, I'll have additional paperwork to do
23:54.27brlcadTwingy: ping
Jeff Waugh - find it at freshmeat.net! Modified by Tim Riker to work with blootbot logs, split per channel, etc. irclog2html for #brlcad on 20061115

irclog2html for #brlcad on 20061115

00:09.18Twingypong
00:12.43MaloeranIt came from Twingy yes, the story surrounding that model is a bit messy... but that's just a screenshot, can it be a problem?
00:17.11Twingyhttp://www.3dcadbrowser.com/preview.aspx?ModelCode=634
00:23.00brlcadTwingy: is that to imply, the video is okay for release?  form 1'd to dod or open to anyone?
00:23.39brlcadMaloeran: entirely depends whose model it is in general
00:24.07brlcadassuming it's the model in 3dcadbrowser, then no it's not a problem at all
00:25.13brlcadit looked a little too artistic to be a cad model, but have to make sure
00:26.26brlcadthough it looks like it could have very well been derived from one
00:38.14MaloeranThere's nothing cad about it, no inner part or engine, just an outer layer
00:38.37MaloeranSo quite likely an artistic model
00:39.36Twingybrlcad, what do you think if it came off a public website?
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01:34.05MaloeranThe fact that it's an artistic model must explain why it's so raytracing-friendly too, the difference with Lee's truck is dramatic
01:43.50brlcadprobably several factors contributing
01:44.35brlcadbut at a glance, it just doesn't look like cad data traditionally looks.. not sure how to quantify it
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05:19.11*** topic/#brlcad is http://ftp.brlcad.org (mirror of http://brlcad.org, down for 'maintenance') || BRL-CAD is an open source solid modeling software suite || Developers needed! Read the HACKING file for details on getting involved || Release 7.8.4 is posted, next release will be 7.10.0
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16:05.30CIA-21BRL-CAD: 03erikgreenwald * 10brlcad/src/mged/sedit.h: Metaball point picking
16:29.49CIA-21BRL-CAD: 03erikgreenwald * 10brlcad/src/mged/edsol.c: metaball point picking and moving
18:03.01brlcadnifty
18:25.57``Erikheh, playing with it?
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21:52.20brlcad``Erik: pingish
22:00.21brlcadwould you happen to be able to compile/provide a staticly linked version of rfdemo?
22:01.24brlcadsdl site is down, need to demo it but can't get a compile
22:01.24brlcad(for mac os x)
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23:36.56``Erikbrlcad: on the fileserver, /r/FreeBSD/ports/distfiles/ has a copy of SDL source
23:38.21``Erikif you can't get it, I can pull it off one of my machines here and chuck it somewhere for you, I think I have it in my darwinports dir
Jeff Waugh - find it at freshmeat.net! Modified by Tim Riker to work with blootbot logs, split per channel, etc. irclog2html for #brlcad on 20061116

irclog2html for #brlcad on 20061116

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02:09.55brlcadahh, server's back up now
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05:00.21CIA-21BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/util/roots_example.c: brian rapp notices a polynomail typo
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14:33.41phocool, got a couple fastgen models converted to rtml..
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16:28.44MaloeranThat shouldn't have been too hard :), a temporary format as simple as it can be
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Jeff Waugh - find it at freshmeat.net! Modified by Tim Riker to work with blootbot logs, split per channel, etc. irclog2html for #brlcad on 20061117

irclog2html for #brlcad on 20061117

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08:46.00K4rl33Hi all
08:46.21K4rl33Someone know a irc network where I can find a cad community?
09:47.05clock_Stalinism in USA! Emigrate before it's too late!
09:47.22clock_http://en.wikinews.org/wiki/UCLA_student_tasered_repeatedly.
09:47.47clock_See the video. The UCLA student was apparently tortured and bullied by police just because he forgot his university card!
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17:11.27wiljaxonHi! Is anyone able to advise on how to export 2D drawings for dxf output?
17:56.45``Erikhttp://freebsdgirl.com/~sektie/pics/cat_2006-11-15.JPG
19:33.24archivist"but our meals taste of dog on thursdays"
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Jeff Waugh - find it at freshmeat.net! Modified by Tim Riker to work with blootbot logs, split per channel, etc. irclog2html for #brlcad on 20061118

irclog2html for #brlcad on 20061118

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23:33.55``Erikizzit 'en cognito' or 'in cognito'?
23:33.58``Erikwoops
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Jeff Waugh - find it at freshmeat.net! Modified by Tim Riker to work with blootbot logs, split per channel, etc. irclog2html for #brlcad on 20061119

irclog2html for #brlcad on 20061119

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Jeff Waugh - find it at freshmeat.net! Modified by Tim Riker to work with blootbot logs, split per channel, etc. irclog2html for #brlcad on 20061120

irclog2html for #brlcad on 20061120

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17:25.08MaloeranThe SSE shuffle instructions unable to do arbitrary shuffling doesn't help, it has to be hard-coded at compilation time. Gah, where's my Altivec
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Jeff Waugh - find it at freshmeat.net! Modified by Tim Riker to work with blootbot logs, split per channel, etc. irclog2html for #brlcad on 20061121

irclog2html for #brlcad on 20061121

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16:15.21``Erikhm, prasad's not here
16:31.40brlcadastute observation
16:31.59``Erik<-- has a stupid question for the boy
16:32.18brlcadis there any other sort that he can handle?
16:32.24``Erik(here as in 'in channel', not geographically)
16:32.34``Erikummm, actually, there may be some :)
16:33.00``Erikjust gotta ask up his alley... he was horribly misapplied on that team.
16:33.27brlcadyou mean, questions about burning itching and open sores?
16:34.18``Eriksome kinds of hardware questions, actually o.O
16:34.25``Erik(in a mood? usually I'm the asshole... :D )
16:35.06brlcadin a good mood
16:35.11brlcadhe's just an easy target
16:35.14``Eriktrue
16:35.17``Erikare you on site today/
16:35.21brlcadnope
16:35.25``Erikah
16:35.32``Erik<-- half tempted to go get a beer o.O
16:37.09``Erikjust don't give teh google any cookies. heh
16:38.18``Erikwoop
16:38.20``Eriks
16:46.14``Erikholy crap, the dmg for xcode 2.4.1 is 923 megs
16:47.55brlcadnice
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16:52.22``Erikon the fileserver in /r/Darwin/ if you want...
16:52.56brlcadaiight
16:53.17``Erik(still copying... give it a few minutes)
19:30.29Maloeranhttp://goddess.selfip.com/random/Motivation/Courage.jpg
19:36.45``Erikcute poster, and every good robot dies some day :/
19:42.13dtidrowit's offically dead now?
19:42.16dtidrowbummer
19:46.50MaloeranThey'll try to contact it from Rover on the surface but the odds are very poor
19:48.49dtidrowyeah
19:49.47dtidrowit's been living on borrowed time for a while now, anyway - it's lasted five times longer than originally planned for
20:23.36``ErikO.o
20:52.05brlcadyeah, had a great run
20:55.36brlcadMaloeran: the presentation was a hit, your proggie was one of the highlights of the show too
20:55.45brlcadthanks for your help with the screenshot and datum
20:58.41brlcadthere was a fare bit of mildly decent discussions about the tradeoffs and considerations of the high speed tracing for analysis purposes
21:02.31brlcadi'll post up the presentation in a week or two after it's more comprehensively reviewed and polished for your to see unless you'd like to see it as is now fouo
21:11.11``Erikdid it get taped?
21:11.57brlcadno, DoD audience
21:12.26``Erikah, heh
21:12.31brlcadmostly jaspo, jtcg, army, navy, air force, nasa
21:12.46brlcad+contractors
21:13.26``Erikoh, uh, so the gist of the presentation, given the audience, is "we can make it go faster. <silent pause> The End."
21:13.43``ErikO:-)
21:14.58brlcadeven higher level than that sorta
21:16.08brlcadhere's what brl-cad is, here's how it fits in to the big pictures, here's some stuff it can do, here's something else called adrt, here's something else even faster called rayforce, here's the tradeoffs when you deal with raytracing and analyses, here are some pretty pictures and graphs, etc
21:16.16``Erikbut converting it to cocoa would probably be a major hassle
21:16.33brlcadnothing wrong with carbon
21:16.54``Erikwell, klugy c++ pushing it, and I don't know it and have no references on it
21:16.56brlcadit's the way to go if you want to control the run loop tightly
21:17.37``Erikheh, the part that needs control is gui free in a thread, the gui just requests it do t hings by putting events in its queue...
21:18.24``Erikwhich is good, I like that, that's how I tend to design guis for things where performance is a concern
21:18.54``Erikso I think the gui COULD be awfully loose, cocoa would make it cleaner and easier for me :/
21:31.44``Erikbahhhh
22:29.21MaloeranNice brlcad, I'm glad to hear it!
22:30.22MaloeranI wouldn't have expected this kind of visual demonstration to be of any interest to non-technical persons, it's so far beyond gpu rasterization in eye-candyness
22:33.28Maloeranfar behind*  :)
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22:40.29brlcadMaloeran: I can usually put a pretty good spin during a presentation, put things into terms that non-technical people understand
22:41.02brlcadget them impressed, perhaps even excited
22:41.19brlcaddepends on the material, prep, and context of course ;)
22:41.46Maloeran*nods* Great, I can't do that :). Even Mark struggled to understand my overview of the raytracer techniques
22:42.54Twingyif you can get people excited then viagra might try to buy you out
22:44.50brlcadand'd I'd sell
22:45.21brlcadcash out early
22:45.32Twingycash out while you're still up? *grin*
22:46.18Twingymal, who do you report to at survice now?
22:47.24MaloeranStill Mark but he's supposed to move to Patuxent River ( or something like that ) soon, to be replaced by... Tony Krauss I remember that correctly
22:47.35Maloeran+if I remember
22:49.12MaloeranOut of curiosity, do you know this Tony?
22:51.48TwingyI know a Tony the Tiger, but I dunno a Krauss
22:55.00MaloeranOh, might be the same one then. Any updates on Lee's potential leave?
22:56.45Twingyyou're asking me? hehe
Jeff Waugh - find it at freshmeat.net! Modified by Tim Riker to work with blootbot logs, split per channel, etc. irclog2html for #brlcad on 20061122

irclog2html for #brlcad on 20061122

03:08.05MaloeranErik or anyone else : is there a portable solution for detecting the size of pointers at preprocessor time? I'm not sure __WORDSIZE is really portable
03:25.24brlcadMaloeran: I'm not aware of a truely portable means to do that
03:26.15brlcadprobably the closest that comes to mind would be some hack-trick of defining some internal struct with a pointer in it and using the offsetof() macro
03:45.16MaloeranI need to know at preprocessor time, sizeof() and offsetof() are not available then
03:45.54MaloeranIf there's no standard cpp macro available, the only thing I can think of is sticking some test in configure.ac to dump the result in config.h and use that
03:46.20brlcadoffsetof is a preprocessor macro
03:46.51brlcadthough it probably still won't evaluate to something like a numeral .. hmm
03:48.16MaloeranI just need to know if I'm dealing with 32 or 64 bits pointers at compile time when doing some messy SSE operations on pointers
03:49.19Twingywrite a little test program that returns the size
03:49.38Twingyreturn sizeof(ptr_t);
03:50.14Twingyput the test in configure.ac
03:50.28Twingyeither way you gotta do it
03:51.04brlcadooh, for *that*
03:51.19brlcadyeah, just make a little program .. that gets shoved into the configure script rather trivially
03:51.25brlcadthen you have your symbol
03:51.40brlcadfor that matter, there are predefined autoconf macros to do exactly that for you already
03:51.40Twingywhy not use the HAVE_64bits
03:52.04TwingyAC_LONG_64_BITS
03:52.08brlcad# figure out what size pointers the compiler is actually generating
03:52.09brlcadAC_CHECK_SIZEOF(int)
03:52.09brlcadAC_CHECK_SIZEOF(long)
03:52.09brlcadAC_CHECK_SIZEOF(long long)
03:52.09brlcadAC_CHECK_SIZEOF(void *, 4)
03:52.18TwingyAC_LONG_64_BITS is shorter :)
03:52.32MaloeranI just put these things in configure.ac?
03:52.33brlcadthat just checks if longs are 64 bits
03:52.43brlcaddepends what it is exactly that you want to know
03:52.59MaloeranI want to know the size of pointers, integer data types are already all defined in limits.h
03:53.04Twingyall depends on what OS/Arch you're supporting
03:53.19brlcadthen probably just that last one, using void * or char * etc
03:53.30brlcadit'll give you a preprocessor symbol for the result
03:54.04TwingyI haven't setup a mail server since before I joined ARL
03:54.20Twingydoing postfix + imap + dns + web + roundcube is making me type too much
03:55.20MaloeranNeat, thanks. I got my SIZEOF_VOID_P symbol
03:56.50TwingyI've almost saved a bulgogi lunch worth of energy
03:57.08Twingyin terms of cost
03:57.36Twingy1 bulgogi lunch buys you 50kWh of electricity, heh
03:58.55MaloeranYes, that's a much more standard unit
03:59.28Twingyramen is a good one
03:59.36TwingyI might have to do kiloramen though
03:59.41Twingyotherwise the number gets too big
04:02.06Twingy794 960 joules
04:03.00Twingy4.5285 ramen per kilowatt hour
04:03.09Twingya hair more than a twinkie
04:04.14Twingymy roof reminds of the space race in civilization
04:04.15brlcadhow much are you using for ramen cost?
04:04.26Twingy190 calories = 4.5285 kWh
04:05.29Twingythe inverse of that rather
04:05.54Twingyhumans require 2.0 - 2.3 kWh a day to live
04:11.22brlcaderm DRA is 2000 calories average, most eat 3k .. i think i average about 4k with the workouts
04:16.29TwingyI try to stay around 2000 with a 2 mile run every other day
04:16.49brlcadthat's a pretty sure way to lose weight
04:17.55brlcadprobably burning about 200-500 for the immediate run, plus a few hundred more residual through the day
04:18.33TwingyI run after work
04:18.43Twingywhich makes it difficult
04:19.07Twingybeen doing this for the last 3 years or so
04:19.53Twingyhrm
04:19.59Twingyimap is not letting me log in
04:20.23Twingyproblem to solve tomorrow, bed time
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15:15.05MaloeranIt's really hard to believe no one taught compilers how to manage registers properly yet
15:15.27clock_Maloeran: that's the theory of register allocation
15:15.48clock_You make a variable lifetime analysis
15:16.31clock_and then colour the DAG with the same number of colours as you have registers
15:18.02MaloeranThat's some nice theory, all the implementations are terribly broken in practice
15:18.28clock_you mean like gcc producing
15:18.30clock_mov ax,cx
15:18.32clock_mov ax,bx
15:18.33clock_?
15:19.11MaloeranThe list of horrors goes on and on... Typical non-sense : Load A into xmm0, load B into xmm1, move xmm0 to xmm2, load C into xmm0
15:19.48clock_It could have loaded A right into xmm2, right?
15:20.08clock_Maloeran: but then the alrogithm is wrong
15:20.22clock_it should have figured out it's a single variable and give it a single register
15:20.27clock_and not smear it all around
15:21.04MaloeranThese are not even "variables", just internal temporaries
15:21.34clock_well, it then needs internal temporary dependence graph colouring :)
15:21.49MaloeranIt's really a mess, and it's saturated of such inefficient use of registers
15:22.03clock_it's easier for the ivory tower kooks from gcc when they live in an illusion they are good than if they actually did something that is really good
15:23.51MaloeranLast time I quickly rewrote a big chunk of code in assembly, it was 30% faster just because of the half-decent register management
15:23.51clock_Maloeran: tell them about the problem - and they will ignore you. Insist on solution of the problem - they will mark you as their enemy
15:24.11MaloeranGCC has got to understand that the variables in inner loops are _more_ important, and to keep the good stuff in registers instead of hitting the stack constantly
15:24.25clock_Maloeran: yes but everyone will tell you that today it doesn't pay off to write assembly code because today's compilers produce better code than a human assembly writer
15:24.41MaloeranI heard that many times, compilers are pathetic
15:25.02clock_Maloeran: mov ax, cx mov ax, bx should have ben caught at least by the peephole optimization!
15:25.12clock_But this shows that even such a trivial peephole is not programmed in
15:25.19clock_mov r1, r2
15:25.24clock_mov r1, r3 translates into
15:25.27clock_mov r1, r3
15:25.57clock_Maloeran: but there are worse problems in the world than bad compiler output
15:25.59MaloeranIt goes that frequently when trying to shift by a variable count of bits, value must be in %rcx
15:26.01clock_for example a lack of sex
15:26.13MaloeranBut it will never load the value in that register directly, just move it around
15:26.47clock_Maloeran: why do you care? What kind of code do you write that you need speed?
15:26.58MaloeranHigh-performance ray-tracing code ;)
15:27.04clock_BRL-CAD?
15:27.13MaloeranYes, the next raytracer of BRL-CAD
15:27.23clock_are you paid for that?
15:27.26MaloeranSure
15:27.34clock_I want to be paid for such things :)
15:28.07Maloeran:) These are interesting problems to play with, it's great to be able to do that full-time
15:28.22clock_Maloeran: I can do fast programs even without assembly
15:28.42clock_Maloeran: for example run the Links browser. Display some big fat JPEG so that it is rescaled in the process.
15:29.19clock_Then relax and realize that the rescaling is performed in linear photometric space with 48bits per pixel and there is gamma correction and dithering applied after, even on 24bpp display
15:29.27clock_And it's not even in assembly.
15:29.40clock_But people tend to say my dither.c is hard to understand
15:29.41MaloeranUsing mmx there?
15:29.45clock_no mmx
15:29.49clock_just ordinary C compiler output
15:30.14MaloeranNice, though the problem is rather simple
15:30.23clock_Maloeran: I realized Linux people don't like self-modifying code
15:30.33clock_so I found out how to work around this limitation
15:30.53clock_I generate a separate routine for every memory organization using a #define template :)
15:30.56MaloeranProcessors generally don't like it much, but it's worth it if you modify once and execute million times
15:31.16MaloeranWould you have an amd64 opcode emitter at hand?
15:31.25clock_Well - all the linux folks reached with their anti-self-modifying-code stance is that the code has to be bigger
15:31.30clock_but is as fast :)
15:31.46clock_what is an opcode emitter?
15:32.07MaloeranTo be able to generate binary encoding of instructions at runtime from code, to be able to run it
15:32.52clock_you mean to link an assembler into the program and then the program compiles parts of itself on the fly?
15:33.09MaloeranMore or less, the program generates optimized pipelines for the task at hand and executes them
15:33.09clock_I don't have amd64 assembler at hand.
15:33.43clock_Maloeran: what computer did you start with?
15:33.58MaloeranI would prefer to do that instead of fixed assembly pipelines, once I get too tired of compiler incompetence
15:34.14MaloeranI begun coding on a 486
15:34.36clock_I began basically with assembly on ZX Spectrum when I was 13.
15:34.44MaloeranTrying to do fancy graphics on the thing, 2d and 3d, I learned assembly back then
15:34.58clock_I did fancy graphics too
15:35.05MaloeranEheh nice. I was 12-13 as well
15:35.13clock_for example I wrote a doom engine where there was a bathroom where there was 10 cm of blood on the floor
15:35.28clock_when you walked there, it did real waves and circles like on water which reflected off the walls
15:35.55MaloeranImpressive, I struggled for a while to understand the basics of 3d rendering back then, quaternions especially
15:35.56clock_and when you killed an enemy, blood sprayed around the screen and then the drops slowly moved down
15:36.59MaloeranDoing any work on or related to BRL-CAD lately?
15:37.09clock_no but I would like to
15:37.18clock_now I work as a C/ASM programmer on an embedded 186 platform
15:37.31MaloeranEheh, neat
15:37.57clock_but we are using Borland C compiler where the optimizations don't work at all even if there are flags for it. I find this compiler a big turnoff
15:38.01clock_It's buggy too
15:38.06clock_and it's a fossil.
15:38.25clock_and the CPU is buggy
15:38.51MaloeranWhat are the chips used for?
15:38.59clock_for a MP3 player
15:39.05clock_or Internet radio
15:41.18clock_Maloeran: that's normal with today's products
15:41.41clock_Maloeran: if it happens more than once in 5 minutes it's suspicious, but 1 per day is normal today
15:42.29clock_unfortunately.
15:43.10MaloeranMicrosoft really managed to get the masses used to deal with crappy software
15:44.13MaloeranAnother "detail" : GCC never understood that movlps only takes 2 cycles instead of the 3 cycles of movss on amd64/Opterons for the same result in most cases
15:44.24clock_Maloeran: I have two penguin plush dolls, one 60cm high, another 15cm high
15:44.43Maloeranmovss for memory load that is
15:45.29clock_Maloeran: you can't really expect me to understand movlps by heart when I am working on a 186 platform and the last time I wrote assembly for fun, the latest processor was Pentium
15:47.07MaloeranEheh, sorry. In a context of scalar operations, movlps loads 64 bits from memory into xmm register and leaves the upper 64 bits untouched, movss loads 32 bits from memory and clears the upper 96 bits to zero
15:47.54MaloeranEspecially when the load is followed by a shuffle to replicate the float 4 times in the register, as it's often the case
15:49.07clock_does it calculate correctly?
15:49.13clock_Or does it divide like Pentium?
15:49.49MaloeranSure it's correct, and they fixed most of the "rounding mode" and denormals mess
15:50.12clock_wow!
15:50.19clock_Correct floating point implementation!
15:50.23MaloeranThe instruction set it still a mess and the instruction encoding is atrociously long because all the short opcodes are used for legacy 8086
15:50.33clock_Like I worked with some arm920t from Cirrus Logic and they had crappy FPU
15:50.40clock_sometimes it produced opposite sign etc. :)
15:50.46MaloeranWoohoo :)
15:51.08clock_sometimes you had to wait a bit so it wouldn't make mistake etc. :)
15:51.14MaloeranIt's nowhere near the elegancy and efficiency of Altivec, but... it's usable, unlike mmx
15:51.23clock_what is altivec?
15:51.54MaloeranApple's SIMD instructions on their IBM processors, G3/G4/G5
15:52.05clock_it was crappy, but it had a bold-sounding name MaverickCrunch(TM)
15:52.20clock_You now today it doesn't matter if it works right or wrong - all that matters is the marketing.
15:52.53clock_If your engineers cannot fix it, one addition (TM) will do.
15:52.57MaloeranThat's mostly true, unfortunately
15:53.08clock_And that's also why I am doing http://ronja.twibright.com
15:53.16clock_and why I bought an old 8-bit computer yesterday.
15:53.25clock_I want to have at least one BugFree(TM) computer at home
15:53.35clock_It's the same model I had as a kid.
15:54.58MaloeranSounds nice. I grew up with a 486 and a Pentium 133
15:55.20clock_You never rode a healthy silicon horse :)
15:55.43clock_healthy pony better than a sick stallion
15:57.35clock_But Frederico Faggini was at least able to do it right on the first try
15:57.38MaloeranThe stallion doesn't run straight and occasionally crashes in stuff on the way, but it's still better
15:58.08MaloeranNot a name I'm familiar with, not finding much on google
16:00.42clock_THe guy who designed Z80
16:03.37archivistZ80 was slow
16:04.49clock_yes Pentium 4 @ 3GHz is faster
16:04.54archivist2meg 65C02 is da man in those days
16:05.04clock_6502 was buggy
16:06.01clock_omg the old discussion what was better, whether a buggy 6502 virtually without registers that took little cycles per instruction or BugFree(TM) Z80 with tons of registers that took at least 4 ticks per inisn
16:06.26clock_"and Z80 didn't have the CRS instruction!"
16:06.40clock_CRS = CRash System
16:27.42brlcadyay, ponies
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23:10.35``Eriko.O
23:19.06``Erik/nick quanzaclause
Jeff Waugh - find it at freshmeat.net! Modified by Tim Riker to work with blootbot logs, split per channel, etc. irclog2html for #brlcad on 20061123

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11:06.41jpjacobsHi, i made a debian package for brlcad. I have to say, i don't know anything about making packages, the dependancies are not set since i don't know how.
11:07.47jpjacobsbut if anyone is interested anyway, i can upload it. (btw i also made a terminal-wrapper thing that sets the path's right, and should also modify ls-outputhiglighting (but that doesn't really work))
11:08.17brlcadto the debian package tracker or elsewhere?
11:08.27brlcadi believe there is a rfp in for one
11:09.09brlcadotherwise, you can upload it to our anon ftp and I can post it to sf.net
11:09.27brlcadftp.brlcad.org/incoming
11:10.12jpjacobsso it's ok that it's lacking dependancy info, and the brlterm thing isn't 10O% functional?
11:10.40clock_tell me why when I stream there is no reply
11:11.51jpjacobsor anybody knows how i add the dependancies , and anyone want to look at the script?
11:12.18brlcadbrlterm thing?
11:12.33brlcadclock_: when you stream where/to what?
11:12.46clock_I am making jokes out of Roxette
11:12.55clock_tell me why when I scream there is no reply
11:13.03brlcadjpjacobs: alas, I'm only passively familiar with the debian packages.. enough to put them together when I have to but not enough to properly review one
11:13.20brlcadclock_: ahh
11:13.33clock_brlcad: I am thinking about making a complete model of Ronja in BRL-CAD
11:13.34jpjacobsWell, that's what i called the wrapper-script. It basically sets the right paths, and modifys LSCOLORS to contain entries for *.g and *.pix
11:13.37clock_including the lens, heel, etc.
11:13.54brlcadjpjacobs: ah, okay
11:13.56clock_I tried a lens in brl-cad and it really behaves like a lens. It even focuses the light of the light sources
11:14.11brlcadclock_: that would be awesome
11:14.31brlcadinclusion-worthy even with the right polish
11:14.34clock_brlcad: can I put a point light source into the place of LED and it would make a circle of light on a wall?
11:15.45brlcadthere's a way to add directional lights, and you can always direct an omnidirectional light by modeling the light bulb itself (e.g. putting a lightsource into a hollowed out cylinder)
11:17.16clock_brlcad: I welded a truss holder and realized it can play spooky melodies
11:17.26clock_http://ronja.twibright.com/audio/tetrax10.ogg
11:18.18brlcadheh
11:18.18clock_and even made a Ronja ringtone out of it
11:18.22clock_http://ronja.twibright.com/audio/ronja_rt.wav
11:18.25clock_http://ronja.twibright.com/audio/ronja_rt.mp3
11:24.22brlcadnice, pleasant even
11:27.08clock_sounds to me like the background from the nightmare in elm street
11:27.10jpjacobsthe .deb is uploading
11:27.29clock_brlcad: but BRL-CAD cannot calculate how it's gonna sound, right?
11:27.47clock_only how it's gonna look
11:29.20brlcadyou'd have to write a sound simulation
11:29.44brlcadit can do the wave propagation using the multispectral library
11:29.58jpjacobsit's there
11:30.05brlcadbut it would still require a lot of good simulation code to properly drive an acoustic simulation
11:30.10brlcadjpjacobs: okay
11:30.36clock_what is wave propagation and multispectral library?
11:30.37brlcadjpjacobs: thanks! .. it'll be a couple days before it can be processed given the holiday
11:31.25jpjacobsnp... if anyone has any tips on how to make it better, please contact me
11:31.28brlcadclock_: to calculate "how it's gonna sound" requires simulating sound waves, which is not unlike a light simulation that the ray-tracers perform where light waves are propagated
11:31.51clock_brlcad: interesting
11:32.20brlcadjpjacobs: can I get a real name to properly credit the contribution?
11:33.09brlcadclock_: there's a multispectral simulation library in brl-cad for simulating different ranges of energies other than the visible light spectrum that liboptical simulates .. sound would qualify as a different spectrum ;)
11:33.25jpjacobsJan-Pieter Jacobs.
11:33.45brlcadthx
11:34.01jpjacobsnp
11:34.13clock_brlcad: can it simulate microwave signature of F117?
11:35.46brlcadyep
11:36.28brlcadthat's sort of the kinds of multispectral simulations it was designed for
11:37.58clock_brlcad: the problem of the lens is that it has to be done as an intersection of two huge balls
11:38.14clock_it's 13cm in diameter but the surface has curvature radius like 1m or so
11:38.26clock_this causes a lot of discarded calculations, doesn't?
11:39.03brlcadspheres/ellipsoids are *the* fastest objects to evaluate, but yes, mildly discarded for parts
11:39.21brlcadnot something I'd worry about to say the least
11:39.31clock_can I speed it up to put it into a box and intersect with the box?
11:39.59brlcadthat wouldn't speed it up
11:40.06brlcadtwo spheres will be way faster
11:40.12clock_brlcad: can I use it to simulate optical systems?
11:40.21brlcadyou can use an elliptical parabaloid, though
11:40.23clock_Like 2 lens and tune it in BRL-CAD and only after try in reality?
11:40.31brlcador a hyperboloid if that helps
11:40.48clock_brlcad: no the lens has spherical surface, I can't use paraboloid or hyperboloid.
11:40.51brlcadhttp://ftp.brlcad.org/tmp/primitives/Primitives3_grouped_labels.png  ehy and epa on the left
11:41.23brlcadyou should be able to make a paraboloid that matches with the right parameters, no?
11:41.50brlcador just stick with spheres, they're still more simple
11:41.54clock_brlcad: can I make rotational paraboloid?
11:42.04brlcadrotational?
11:42.15clock_brlcad: I mean like a parabolic mirror
11:42.27clock_is it a special case of epa?
11:42.42clock_like a mirror in flashlight
11:43.16brlcadtwo epa's one subtracting from the inside of the other
11:43.33brlcadoffset is your mirror thickness
11:44.12clock_aha I thought epa is that it cuts into a parabolic in one axis and ellipsis in the other
11:44.42clock_too bad I have little time
11:44.51clock_it will take long until I draw the whole Ronja in BRL-CAD :(
11:45.05clock_and potatoid is possible too? :)
11:45.27brlcadnow with bigger chunks!
11:45.53clock_brlcad: the sketch does it mean I can make 2D blueprints like in Qcad?
11:46.00clock_with dimensions etc.?
11:49.16brlcadit'll make the shapes, but not with dimensions like you're probably thinking
11:49.49brlcadit's rather basic 2D editing frankly, not recommended for anything except basic shapes for extrusion
11:50.34brlcadsomeone was looking into actually invoking qcad for the sketch editor and doing a transparent passthrough between the two apps but they didn't finish afaik
11:50.44clock_can the sketch import DXF drawing?
11:51.12brlcadhmm
11:51.59brlcadnot easily, technically, it'd be a pretty trivial modification to make but currently the dxf importer brings drawings in as 2D wireframe objects
11:53.38clock_what can I do with 2D wireframe objects?
11:56.35brlcadview them
11:57.04brlcadsupport for 2D stuff in general is entirely lacking if you hadn't noticed.. we're solid modeling, not drafting
11:57.29brlcadthe fact that it even lets you bring them in is a little "insulting"
12:00.50clock_imagine the following task
12:01.02clock_you want to make a hole in a steel plate 20cm in diameter
12:01.11clock_but you only have 6mm drill.
12:01.31clock_in qcad I draw a 20cm circle and then draw 6mm circles one always in the previous intersection
12:01.38clock_that takes me like 2 minutes.
12:01.47clock_I can't imagine how to do this in BRL-CAD
12:02.57brlcadbecause that's a rather 2d-centric task to start with perhaps, at least you have a 2d solution in mind
12:03.10brlcadfor solid modeling, there is no such direct translation, you work entirely in 3d
12:03.21brlcadso you'd make cynlinders instead of circles
12:03.30brlcadbut otherwise, not much different
12:03.50brlcadand it'd take me like 2 minutes for that particular thing too
12:04.40clock_but they wouldn't touch precisely, would they?
12:04.49brlcadwhat wouldn't?
12:05.31brlcadthe cylinders?  sure, why not?  they'll be whatever you make them be numerically
12:06.01brlcadno more or less aligned than specifying circles
12:06.19brlcadthe only difference there is 2d description vs a 3d one
13:25.02clock_brlcad: you would have to calculate the parameters of the cylinders externally
13:25.14clock_you would have to write a program for that. That's not in 2 minutes.
15:28.04MaloeranHiding in one's natural environment : http://xs309.xs.to/xs309/06474/DSCF0001.jpg
Jeff Waugh - find it at freshmeat.net! Modified by Tim Riker to work with blootbot logs, split per channel, etc. irclog2html for #brlcad on 20061124

irclog2html for #brlcad on 20061124

06:33.49*** join/#brlcad clock_ (i=clock@84-72-61-26.dclient.hispeed.ch)
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15:26.59elite01hi - is brlcad easy to get into?
15:29.47clock_yes
15:30.13elite01and how long does it take to build? (pentium 4 at 3.4GHz)
15:30.14clock_there is a howto for starters
15:30.19clock_not much long
15:30.19MaloeranI think that depends what you are used to
15:30.22clock_like ordinary program
15:30.34elite01nice, thanks
15:39.11clock_elite01: brl-cad is no problem to use. It's not like the modern bloatware with million dependencies on widget toolkits, java, xml parsers etc.
15:39.24clock_and if you don't have the secret magical combination of version numbers it explodes
15:39.34clock_you just download brl-cad, compile, install here you go
15:40.13elite01yes just did make install
15:40.22elite01(well it's *still* running)
15:48.51elite01can one also model/simulate lenses and other optical stuff?
15:48.59clock_elite01: yes
15:49.03elite01very nice :)
15:49.08clock_elite01: I tried and it worked
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17:10.38elite01in mged - i hat b and now stuff is spinning... how do i fix that? :)
17:12.01elite01ah got it
17:17.43clock_elite01: stop smoking the weed
17:17.55clock_elite01: then the stuff will stop spinning
17:18.49elite01hehe :)
17:48.43elite01now, i've got a small object which i can't see even if i zoom in - but the raytracer draws it
17:50.03clock_elite01: try to turn off z clipping
17:52.54elite01still not showing up
18:04.22clock_try restarting BRL-CAD
18:04.34clock_if that doesn't help, restart your PC
18:21.13elite01now, soudns like a windows trick, that one :)
18:22.37elite01still, restarting brl-cad did the trick - well nearly... i can see half of the cube
18:52.30``Erik'half'?
18:53.18``Erikand jerkcity is awesome :D very twisted
18:53.36``Erikhttp://jerkcity.com/jerkcity8.html
18:53.49``Erikhttp://jerkcity.com/jerkcity5.html
18:53.51``Erikbrilliant :D
18:56.15``Erikdamnit
18:56.42``Erikalias sl=ls
18:56.43``Eriko.O
19:02.11MaloeranI _really_ don't get the humor, ``Erik :), I tried to understand
19:25.32*** join/#brlcad SWPadnos (n=Me@dsl245.esjtvtli.sover.net)
19:26.57MaloeranOh, that one actually makes sense : http://www.jerkcity.com/jerkcity1110.html
19:41.51MaloeranThis is horrible. Litvinenko was found to be poisoned with ingested radioactive plutonium, yet Putin claims there's no evidence his death was unnatural, and main russian medias still haven't said a word on the matter
19:43.14MaloeranI didn't realize Russia's socio-political climate was so... sick
21:17.49``Erikls
21:58.09``Erikheh
21:58.14``Erikrm -rf archivist
21:58.15``Erik:D
21:58.46archivistmy bot pretends to lose its data with rm -rf
21:59.30archivistits playing with the users
22:00.17``Erikheh, make it roundrobin kb with the kick message "I DON'T KNOW YOU!"
22:00.18``Erik:D
22:00.44``Erik(and everyone gets to laugh when it kickbans itself, heh)
22:00.45``Erik:D
22:01.04archivistkickban not implemented
22:01.24archivistmainly used for man pages and factoids
22:01.55archivistbut with the right factoids one can fool a few users
22:04.41``Erik<-- prefers seeting up webpages for that to avoid channel clutter
22:04.47``ErikI like my bots as silent as possible
22:05.38``Erikhttp://math.missouristate.edu/opengl/faq.php  is one o fthe pages I made for a chanenl (I wrote the php/sql and a program to snarf the original file, the content is mostly brink and roads)
22:07.51archivistmy fun for the mysql bot was writing the xml reader
22:13.19``Erikdidn't use a lib?
22:16.41archivistdid it using php, the xml has display crap I have to ignore mixed in, just picking titles, paragraph headings and index terms
22:17.03archivistit uses the xml parser that php has
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Jeff Waugh - find it at freshmeat.net! Modified by Tim Riker to work with blootbot logs, split per channel, etc. irclog2html for #brlcad on 20061125

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02:09.56``Erik(does it sound like it's eating frames to anyone else?)
02:09.59``Erikoops
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15:47.35brlcadelite01: did you ever get the problems figured out?
15:48.02brlcadturning off zclipping on the misc menu sounds like one likely issue you were running into as well as perhaps an enabled framebuffer
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17:25.27elite01brlcad, i had the framebuffer disabled
17:26.08elite01think it was z-clipping or z-buffer
18:32.13elite01ok, thinks like the framebuffer was enabled - and when z-buffer is also enabled, it's broken
18:32.52elite01well, need to go - see you
Jeff Waugh - find it at freshmeat.net! Modified by Tim Riker to work with blootbot logs, split per channel, etc. irclog2html for #brlcad on 20061126

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14:50.43``Erikhttp://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EvjdzfV2iFQ
14:58.41MaloeranStill no support from youtube for non-flash platforms and people, meh
14:59.55brlcadheh, quite a disjoint defensive talker there
15:01.34``Erikit'd be rough for ya anyways, mal... norweigan with fairly literal (or poorly done) english subtitles
15:09.09MaloeranDo you know any GCC intrinsics or pthread-level mechanisms to expose 'lock cmpxchg' or 'lock xadd' instructions? Of course that wouldn't be portable, but much faster than mutexes if appropriate and available
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16:40.11MaloeranOh, cool thing. Erik, are you able to check on some non-ia32/amd64 box what you got in /usr/include/asm/atomic.h ?
16:43.47``Erikerikg@ti ~$ uname -p ; ls -ld /usr/include/asm
16:43.47``Erikpowerpc
16:43.47``Erikls: /usr/include/asm: No such file or directory
16:44.18MaloeranOkay, the stuff is not portable. Thanks
16:46.31brlcadquite.. i think that's linux-only no?
16:48.11MaloeranProbably so, I really don't know much of OSX
16:48.48MaloeranI was wondering if there could be some equivalent functionalities exposed there, even if different
16:49.02brlcados x provides similar goo in /usr/include/libkern/OSAtomic.h
16:49.08brlcadi think bsd provides something like /usr/include/machine/atomic.h
16:49.52MaloeranAh I see. Thanks
16:49.53``Erikerik@fenris /usr/include$ uname -ps ; find . -name atomic.h
16:49.53``ErikFreeBSD i386
16:49.53``Erik./machine/atomic.h
16:50.27brlcadthey are pretty similar -- how to perform various operations atomic, various math ops and get/set ops
16:52.20brlcadif anything, dual boot solaris or something.. that's almost guaranteed to break something usually :)
16:52.32brlcadoozes system V-ness
16:53.41brlcadnone of that wacky bsd 4.3 standardification crap ;)
16:53.42``Erikheh
16:54.00``Erikdoes solaris10 have an amd64 variant?
16:54.20brlcadsun ships one, so I'd hope so
16:54.47brlcadbut dunno
16:56.11MaloeranErik, I would be pleased to replace my desktop but any other architecture than amd64 is overpriced for the processing power you get. Trying out Solaris sounds good though
16:58.30brlcada bsd might get you more bang for the buck as it's easier to get up and running and is at least a little bit different than linux
16:58.43brlcador both!
17:00.05MaloeranRight, I played with fbsd in the past although I couldn't even manage to install it on the laptop
17:02.01MaloeranIt apparently detected the disk geometry wrong, but didn't realize that and tried copying files ( and failing ) until the installation was "complete" *cough*
17:03.25``ErikI d'no if solaris 10 is really lagging... 8 was a bit archaic, yeah...
17:03.41``Erikbut 10 has a lot of stuff that many others are playing catch-up to
17:03.45``Erikapparently
17:04.16``Erikand that problem still boggles me, mal... we didn't get around to trying it when you were here for vis, tho :/
17:05.18brlcadlagging in userland tools, not the kernel and architecture itself
17:06.27``Erikhrm
17:06.36``Erikfirst thing I tend to do on a sun box is start populating /usr/gnu
17:06.41``Erikcuz I'm lame
17:06.55brlcadthat's cheating :)
17:07.14``Erikyeah
17:07.15``ErikI suck
17:07.31brlcadsome of their tools are often a better approach.. but they just lack features overall
17:08.27``Erikheh, they're different
17:08.36``ErikI was heavy into solaris back at fedex
17:08.46``Erikbut *shrug* before and after, I'm a bsd guy
17:10.16brlcadbsd approach is usually simple and powerful, a little more carefully chosen than the linux kitchen sink approach (as a broad stereotyping statement of course, exeptions to both)
17:11.17``Erikfbsd has had fits of kluge... but there's been a heavy effort to clean house lately
17:11.29``Eriklike a couple years ago, perl was removed from the base system (yay!)
17:17.15brlcadnifty
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Jeff Waugh - find it at freshmeat.net! Modified by Tim Riker to work with blootbot logs, split per channel, etc. irclog2html for #brlcad on 20061127

irclog2html for #brlcad on 20061127

01:52.16Maloeranhttp://www.cjcc.com/Images/funny%20picts/When%20Your%20SysAdmin%20Is%20Bored.jpg
01:54.26``Eriknice
01:55.34brlcadhah
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17:09.56MaloeranCool, there's progress from Survice for the immigration visa demand. Though... From this lengthy paperwork and exchanges with lawyers, I didn't realize it would imply more than a couple thousands in fees for them o.O
17:10.13``Erikheh
17:10.21``Erikprobably in the neighborhood of 20k used?
17:10.22``Erikusd
17:10.26``Erik*shrug*
17:10.40clock_Who's immigrating into the US?
17:10.56MaloeranNo clear idea, but they hired people at 265USD/hour to work on it
17:11.10``Erikbear in mind... every single cost to them for you... all of everything they're paying, they're making at least twice that much in profit.
17:11.20Maloeranclock_: I am, or at least I think I am. I'm presently working from Canada
17:11.28``Erikclock: work is work...
17:11.44``Erikand bush and his ass clowns will be gone in a bit... jan '09, WOOOOOOO!!!!
17:11.53clock_Is it possible to work on BRL-CAD from Hawaii?
17:12.29Maloeran``Erik, do you mean that the ARL is covering all these costs?
17:12.33``Erikyou can work on brl-cad from anywhere.. getting paid to work on brl-cad all depends on the vehicle for the work order
17:13.03``Erikmal: arl is paying a snotload, which probably easily covers all of their expenses, plus they'll have you work on shit they sell to other companies
17:13.35``Eriktrust me, if you weren't giving them a non-neglegible profit, they would not bother with you. They're doing what they're doing to maximize profit. nothing else.
17:14.23``Erikif you were actually costing them money in the long run, your contract would be gone and someone would probably be fired in the mgmt chain there :)
17:14.41``Erikbusiness is as business does
17:15.37MaloeranRight, okay. I guess I'll never know how big a piece of the cake Survice is grabbing on the way ;)
17:16.22``Erikthe general rule of thumb in industry is that you see about 1/3 of the billing rate
17:16.22brlcadyou really don't want to know that
17:17.11``Erikand for 'regular' employees, the cost to company is about 2.4x gross salary
17:18.52``Erik<-- has a perverse interest in the numbers o.O also enjoys things like dan wheelers "sloccount"
17:19.48``Erikmoney is a tool
17:19.51``Erika very real one
17:19.59``Erikand I like understanding tools
17:20.12``Erikprogramming languages and os's are tools
17:20.33``Erikbrlcad is a tool, but I gave up on understanding him... brlcad is as brlcad does. ;)
17:20.34brlcadI mean as a contractor, it's usually not a good idea to know what your charging rate is.. mutually to you and your company
17:20.36MaloeranI think I vaguely understand economics, but I don't understand the appeal of profit maximization
17:21.00``Erikpublic companies have a contractual obligation to maximize profit.
17:21.20brlcadaside from the politics of the rate and fact that it can be daunting to realize how much they take ;)
17:21.35``Erikshort term profit, even. :/ quarterly dividends to stock holders, etc
17:21.44brlcad~dict tool
17:22.01MaloeranI don't really want to know, brlcad, I just realize it can cover extra expenses. Believe it or not, I was worried for a moment
17:22.20brlcadyeah, it can cover whatever the heck they want it to cover
17:22.23brlcadwithin legalities
17:22.25``Erikmal: they will let you know that you have something to worry about well before you have something to worry about
17:22.58``Erikyour interest is coding, they know that... keep coding, and enjoy the creature comforts the paychecks afford you
17:23.07``Erikand don't worry about the bs
17:23.29MaloeranOkay, sounds like a good deal to me :)
17:24.27``Erikif they realize you're reasonably competent, you'll be golden as long as you don't do something idiotic
17:24.36``Eriklike smear the ceo's office in feces
17:25.02``Erikunfortunately, many non-technical people judge technical competency by the degree held...
17:25.15``Erikso even if you think it's stupid, it *IS* in your best interest to get at least a bs
17:26.05``Erik(and when you apply to a job... the very first people who see your resume are nontechnical hr people... no degree? it'll never get to the technical people who can recognize skill and ability.)
17:27.05MaloeranI just want to do what I enjoy, and that is coding. If I were unable to keep on doing that for a living, I'll do something else part-time with plenty of free time again
17:27.10``Erika friend of mine who worked as a mgr for intel... was trying to get a russian dude into their chip design team... had a bitch of a time fighting with hr because the dude didn't have a degree, even though he was a wizard at ic design and when they got him in, he did awesome things... but no degree, so there was a stigma
17:27.19MaloeranBut I really don't think I want to go to school again
17:27.43``Eriksometimes we have to do a little of what we dont' want to in order to do a lot of what we do want to. :(
17:29.46``ErikI dropped out of college cuz it was stupid in '95... I dropped back in because I realized that the piece of paper was actually important...
17:29.55MaloeranFor what you speak of, Erik, does it take "any bs" or something related to the job?
17:30.01``ErikI went back KNOWING that I'd learn nothing new, it was just a hoop jumping exercise...
17:30.12``Erikbut I actually learned quite a bit after the first 2 yrs of newbie crap
17:30.13MaloeranI could see myself studying something completely unrelated to programming
17:30.21``Erikthe last 2 yrs were .. engaging
17:30.24``Erikeye opening :)
17:31.12``Erikuhmmm, in general, I think "any old bs" will do, but I THINK you'd be surprised at the holes in your knowlege if you did pursue a cs, math, or physics degree
17:31.39MaloeranOh yes, but that's the fun part :), I want to struggle filling these holes myself, with nothing but a sheet of paper and a pen
17:31.40``ErikI mean, english or music probably won't advance your mind TOO much in the field of interest
17:31.51``Erikheh
17:31.56MaloeranA bs in music theory or french poetry could be nice
17:32.02``Erikyou'll still struggle, and there'll be paper and pen...
17:32.16``Erikbut you get the advantage of something saying "here is a hole"
17:32.27``Erikinstead of going through life clumsily working around it because you dont' know it exists
17:33.02``ErikI d'no, I went into school all cocky and arrogant, I was humbled by dr shade. and I think I'm far better at what I do now because of it
17:33.45``ErikI want to do grad school, I just hope I can find a professor who can make me feel totally idiotic so I can grow even more :)
17:34.10Maloeran:) Yes, that should be nice. I had... different experiences
17:34.36``Erikmy highschool was a joke, and the first two years of college were laughable.
17:34.54MaloeranThe last day I went to college, I had proven my physic teacher wrong with the Hawking book I had at hand and was thrown out of the class ; never went again
17:34.55``Erikbut there'll be a "wheat and chaff" course... mine was csc 324
17:35.18``Erikonce you hit that point, you're either a cs person, someone struggling to get a grade, or a dropout.
17:35.40MaloeranAs I said, I could see myself studying something that interests me yet that I know little about
17:35.48MaloeranEheh
17:35.55``ErikI don't think being thrown out of class fofr disproving a teacher would be acceptable at any college around here
17:35.55``Erik:(
17:36.15``ErikI mean, I woulda gone to the dean and made my argument
17:36.32``Erikalso; the dude made some good beer ;)
17:36.32MaloeranI was fed up with school enough at that point not to bother
17:36.45``ErikI THINK he went to be the dean at chico
17:36.55MaloeranAhah, I see
17:37.14``Erikeven as a hoop jumping exercise, though, it'll make your life a little easier
17:38.12MaloeranA degree in music would be appealing to me, I think
17:38.13``Erikbeing a professional developer without a bs is like, uh... coding c... on windows... without knowing anything about the preprocessor...
17:38.15``Erik:)
17:38.28``Erika buddy of mine in college was doing a dual major of cs and music
17:38.31``Erik*shrug*
17:38.43``Erikand the lower level cs courses, I tested out of
17:39.09``ErikI was able to prove that I knew what they wanted to teach me, and they removed teh requirement
17:39.39MaloeranEheh, nice
17:40.36MaloeranI composed music younger, played violin for a decade and in an orchestra, a bs in music/poetry could be great
17:40.37``Erik*shrug* I think it's worth doing if you want to code for a living. there'll be a couple years of borign stupid shit. then you might learn something new *shrug* and at the end, life'll be that much easier
17:41.05``Erikgetting someone else to pay for a coder to get a music degree could be tricky ;)
17:41.23MaloeranOh right, it's costly down there :)
17:41.35``Erikdepends on what school
17:41.54``ErikI think I was paying ~$2000 a year? I dont' remember anymore
17:42.13``Erikmost of it is covered if you're a "resident"
17:42.19MaloeranAh, not that bad, close to the fees in Canada then
17:42.29``ErikI woulda paid more than 3x if I wasn't a state resident
17:42.45``Erik(whcih means having lived in the state for at least 2 yrs or something)
17:43.01``Erikthen most of it was paid through state taxes
17:43.29``Erikheh
17:43.35``Erikor how his predecessor would feel? :)
17:43.53Maloeran:) Eheh
17:49.00``Erik<-- recently picked up on the observation that most coders are music o.O
17:49.21``ErikI think I jabbered about it at vis?
17:49.31``Erikmusical
17:49.32``Erikeven
17:49.52MaloeranNot that I recall, you played an instrument or composed?
17:50.03MaloeranMusic is highly creative, I don't think programming is that much different
17:50.14``Erikguitar, trombone and keyboards... and I've written songs on the guitar
17:50.26``Erikjustin plays keyboards... jason plays clarinet
17:50.49MaloeranNeat
17:51.20``Erikand I was more into electric organ than piano, heh, difference in HOW you hit the keys
17:52.41``Erik<-- tends ot have a very soft touch when playing music... or typing *shurg* wants a responsive soft instrument
17:52.43MaloeranI should have sticked with piano at school when the time came to choose our instrument that we would play for the next 7 years
17:53.15``Erikelectric guitars playing "lazy/slurred" for the most part... well oiled trombone slide... low resistance keyboard or electric organ
17:53.54brlcadhttp://www.experts-exchange.com/Web/Q_22031739.html
17:54.11``Erikkeyboards I dig are the c64 inductance kbd, mitsumi precision 'bubble' kbd, and teh apple kbd's...
17:54.20``Erikcan't STAND those ibm clicky monstrosities
17:54.22brlcadpretty sure his wording just sucked .. I would gather he wants repeatable random numbers, i.e. ability to set the seed .. but pretty damn funny regardless ;)
17:54.53``Erikheh
17:55.40``ErikREAL repeatable random numbers are nontrivial... given that I can take the see from, say, a linux x86 box to say, an osX ppc box and get a totally different sequence
17:55.57MaloeranI'm not so sure, brlcad, there are people that clueless ;).   if( rand() < 0.5*RAND_MAX ) {} if( rand() > 0.5*RAND_MAX ) {}
17:55.58``Erikbut on the same os/arch, srand() is good 'nuff
17:56.14``Erikhah
17:56.42``Erikhwer'ed ya see that?
17:56.56MaloeranIt was posted in #C some time ago, that code was actually found in a commercial environement
17:57.07MaloeranIt was supposed to pick one of the branches "randomly"
17:57.07``ErikI mean, if there's a 50% chance of A *AND* a 50% of B, then yeah, that might be right
17:57.16``Erikoh, if that was the intent, yeah, hah :)
17:57.31``Erik'else' is hard.
17:58.03``Erikat least they did 0.5*RANDMAX instead of %2
17:58.19MaloeranI simplified the code for it to fit on a line, it was actually a mess
17:58.23``Erik(most rng's have the most significant bits as the most random)
17:58.30MaloeranSome broken conversion to float with comparison with 0.5
17:58.58``Erikrand() < 0.5*(float)rand()
17:59.00``Erik*shrug*
17:59.11MaloeranI'm amazed by the amount of bad programmers, it's worth crying in #C sometimes
17:59.18MaloeranEfnet's #C that is
17:59.37``Erikremember; half the people you meet are below average.
17:59.54MaloeranBelow the median, perhaps not below the average
18:00.12``Erikand the ones who are able to grok things will look things up and learn themselves some... so you hear from the dumb ones most
18:00.21``Erikjust like politics and fcc 'decency' rap
18:00.22MaloeranRight.
18:00.22``Erikcrap
18:00.27``Erikok
18:00.31``Erikmedian, not average, you're right
18:00.42``Erikbut I was quoting
18:00.43``Erik:/
18:01.30Maloeran:) Okay. I'm especially amazed by how people can struggle to understand pointers
18:01.35``Erik(because most people don't understand the difference between median and average)
18:01.51``Erikhehehe, I like pointers
18:03.24Maloerannow*
18:03.38MaloeranPutting high-school or not, that is the question
18:04.09``Erikhrm
18:04.14``Erikcontact mark
18:04.21``Erikhe'll talk to the lawyers or whatever for you
18:05.00MaloeranSure, they gave me that form to fill up. Ah well
18:07.14``Erik(the stigma of no bachelors...)
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22:48.46brlcadMaloeran: freenode's #C isn't much different
22:49.48brlcadthere's even a resident troll that likes to badger the newbies
22:50.29brlcadat least he was there a couple years ago, he wasn't even that well informed, but moreso than the others that would speak up so he often had the mic on the newbies
22:52.23MaloeranEheh, I see you have actively participated in such channels too
22:53.32brlcadonly mildly, usually through referral
22:54.31brlcadsomeone would come into a different channel asking basic coding questions, and I'd refer them elsewhere.. only to have them return after being told rather unconstructively how stupid they were by elitist a**holes
22:55.04brlcadso I periodically would wander over to put them in their place, tell them to either help or stfu
22:55.12MaloeranYes, that's the kind of situation that "forces" me to provide some actual help
22:55.52``Erikheh
22:55.58MaloeranI apparently have been doing that long enough to get op in #opengl, #c and #asm ; probably not a good sign
22:55.59``ErikI'm happy to provide C advice
22:56.06brlcadwhat's a pointer?
22:56.08``Erikbut I mostly focused on specialized channels... like #opengl
22:56.22``Erikto avoid the straight up newbs
22:56.35brlcadlots of straight up newbs hit bz
22:56.52``ErikI've been ignoring #opengl for the most part lately :/
22:56.58brlcadso I refer them if it's not a trivial question or they are just missing too much foundation
22:57.23Maloeran#opengl has been decaying since all the regulars fled to #siggraph because our debates were "off topic"
22:57.28brlcadthough I do tutor a couple specific individuals that showed great interest, talent, and progress
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22:59.13``Erikheh
23:05.18``ErikO:-)
23:06.55``Erikwhich is almost the point of stopping and doing something actually useful *cough*
23:09.50Twingysean, those papers are signed
23:10.37MaloeranEheh, lacking motivation Erik? I myself wish I still had the motivation I had at 12-16 years old, it weakened a bit
23:10.48``Erikheh
23:10.55``ErikI wish i still had the motivation I had at 26.
23:10.57``Erik:(
23:12.03Twingywhat's with you guys :)
23:12.08brlcadTwingy: cool
23:12.28brlcadshame couldn't get public release on them, but meh, it's something
23:13.02brlcadMaloeran: heh, if you're talking like that already.. then you really only have downhill to go :)
23:13.07TwingyI was tempted to pick up the papers and flip through them like a 19th century picture movie
23:13.39MaloeranAw brlcad :). Seriously, it was not healthy. I was forgetting to eat, to sleep and go to school just to code
23:13.55Twingythe key to motivation is diversity
23:14.21Twingyfor me anyway
23:14.23``Erikdiversity only takes ya so far in my experience :/
23:14.41Twingydepends on what your goals in life are
23:15.07Twingyto become an expert in a field, to become well known, to become utilitarian...
23:15.33MaloeranI still enjoy solving problems just as much. The issue, I think, is that the problems have grown complex and that the solutions take a long while to code up properly
23:15.49Twingymmm booty
23:15.53``Erikhhahaha
23:16.14``Erikdsl's are the art of turning complex problems into simple problems.
23:16.46MaloeranThe problems I was solving at 12-16 years old took very little time to code once solved. The current raytracing problems? Gah!! :)
23:17.47MaloeranErik, what do you mean by dsl there?
23:17.56Twingydamn small linux of course
23:17.57``Erikdomain specific language
23:18.06MaloeranAh, right
23:18.46``Erikdeep dependancy chains, hard deadlines, and the "probably good enough" minimal ordering
23:20.38TwingyI am displeased with how brakes are engineered for most bikes
23:20.51``Erikwhat, the rim calipers?
23:20.56Twingyyea
23:21.02Twingyall they're missing is two springs
23:21.06Twingytwo springs!!!
23:21.08``Erikwell
23:21.10Twingyand they'd be 10x better
23:21.11``Erikdo it better
23:21.13brlcadyou want hydraulic brakes on your bike?
23:21.15``Erikand apply for a patent
23:21.21``Erikand get fucktarded rich
23:21.22Twingyno, I'm going to do that this weekend
23:21.23``Eriko.O
23:21.25Twingyit'll take 2 minutes
23:21.31TwingyI have my old mountain bike back
23:21.41Twingythe one I used to ride to work at Skyhigh the ISP on in high school
23:21.56brlcadooh, Hero tonight
23:22.34brlcador heros or whatever it's called
23:22.38brlcadgood stuff
23:22.41Twingyhiros?
23:22.45Twingyfood network?
23:22.47Twingy:)
23:22.47brlcadhiro nakamura
23:22.55Twingyhirosushima?
23:23.02``Erikheh
23:23.03brlcadmm.. sushi
23:23.24``Erikneko ga tabemasuka?
23:23.28Twingynaggasagonnaworkherenomore
23:23.35brlcadheh
23:23.59brlcadthe korean shop has some
23:24.17``Erikheh
23:24.23``ErikI might stop there on my drive tomorrie
23:24.29``Erikyou're talking about the one in beards hill, right?
23:24.37brlcadnext to kleins
23:25.37``Erik<-- forgets which big grocery store is in beards hill? knows there's a pizza shop, radiocrap, pet store, lees hunan, home despot, ...
23:25.46``Erik:)
23:25.51TwingyI bet that pet stores has some of my mice still
23:26.01``Erik"he knows just how I like my martini... full of alcohol"
23:26.23``Erikbut I did just buy a hugeassed bag of rice :D
23:26.28``Erikginormous
23:26.42Twingymaking saki?
23:26.46Twingysake
23:26.46``Erikheh, no
23:27.06``Erikbought me up a rice maker
23:27.41Twingyriceroni
23:27.56Twingyif you bought a rice maker
23:27.59Twingywhy buy rice?
23:28.04Twingyooh that reminds me
23:28.09TwingyI need to pick up cans tomorrow
23:28.11``Erikheh
23:28.24TwingyI can make one out of aluminum
23:29.29Twingysoon I will have enough to begin rocket motor
23:29.46Twingythe diet pepsi motor
23:30.06``Erikout of aluminum?
23:30.20``Erikwon't the throat temperature be... destructive?
23:30.29``Erikwhat's the term that dude used, ummm
23:30.49``Erikspontanious rapid disassembly?
23:31.05Twingynot unless your wok is running at 1250F
23:31.14Twingymost woks are at like 500 no?
23:31.27``Erik<-- meant for a rocket motor
23:31.36Twingyah, for a naive one sure
23:31.42``Erikwhich, from the courses I've been to, like in the neighborhood of 2000f
23:31.44``Erik*shrug*
23:32.08Twingydepends on how you configure it
23:32.12Twingyand what propellants
23:32.26Twingyand whether you got heat fins on it
23:32.58``Erikyeah *shrug* confuration they're talking is 'how much thrust can I get out of one shot of this thing"
23:33.22``Erik<-- cooks himslef up some green beans
23:34.53``Erikseriously, you're in teh same directorate as a guru in the subject
23:38.55Twingythere's probly a bunch of guru's here on the subject
23:39.04Twingynot going to get involved with them though
23:39.15Twingythat way I can't claim any affiliation
23:39.24``Erikaight *shrug*
23:39.26Twingyor implementation of propietary knowledge
23:39.49``Erikthere's one I've talked to a couple times who is supposedly *THE* guy, but I'll shut up on it :)
23:40.22TwingyI don't see how his background would help me on such small primitive motors which I have a firm grasp on
23:40.36Twingyhe'd be the guy to talk to if I was building an Atlas IV maybe
23:41.07``Erikactually, 4" liquid motors... and they're disturbingly similar to my showerhead thingy, which woulda failed if I understand correctly
23:41.08``Erik:)
23:41.48Twingystill think you should have tried it
23:42.32``Erikif I understand correctly, the biggest problem would've been how I attached the input nozzles int he upper chamber, those'll blow out
23:42.48``Erikotherwise, the throat wasn't small enough, the choke would've bene subsonic
23:42.52``Erikor it'd go through fuel like mad
23:42.53``Erikheh
23:43.57``Erikoh, and how I attached teh injectors, heh, has been patented. :(
23:47.06Twingyeverything has been patented so what?
23:47.26``Erikheh, yeah. modern patents have killed innovation.
23:47.27``Erik:(
23:47.52Twingynah
23:48.08Twingyyou can still innovate on your own, no gastapo gonna come after you unless you make $$$
23:50.34MaloeranThat didn't work for the open source developpers in the states who were sued for such infringement
23:52.43Twingythat's why you go anonymous and host offshore :)
23:52.55Twingy*spoken like a loyal federal employee*
Jeff Waugh - find it at freshmeat.net! Modified by Tim Riker to work with blootbot logs, split per channel, etc. irclog2html for #brlcad on 20061128

irclog2html for #brlcad on 20061128

00:53.39Twingyyay, phone battery arrived
00:53.43Twingyphone_life += 2
00:54.11``Erik+=, not *= ?
00:54.13brlcadtwingy wears a +2 ring of regeneration you say?
00:56.46Twingyin this case += == *=
00:57.37``Erikheh
01:09.35``Erikheh
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02:38.58MaloeranThat immigration visa questionaire is amusing, with questions asking for example if I have ordered or organized genocide, or practiced polygamy
02:39.21MaloeranOr if I was part of the Nazi german government between 1933 and 1945, nice one!
02:39.32``Erikwell, bear in mind
02:39.37``Erikif you aren't moving to utah
02:39.54``Erikthan polygamy is worse than genocide
02:40.06``Erikand premarital sex is absolutely horrible
02:40.36MaloeranEheh, absolutely
02:40.47MaloeranAnother nice one : "Have you ever, in or outside of the U.S. knowingly committed a crime for which you have not been arrested ?"
02:41.12MaloeranI would be curious to know what percentage of people really answers Yes to that one
02:50.22Twingynone that I'm willing to admit :)
03:05.39``Erikdownload of whats?
03:05.43``ErikO:-)
03:09.26Twingyuh oh, bad internet connection or feds are after me
03:12.43``Erikhah
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14:51.39MaloeranMasters of automake, Erik or brlcad, what do you recommend for a way to compile and link in a .s file if and only if on ia32?
14:51.55MaloeranI need a assembly hack to align the stack of threads on 16 bytes
15:59.26MaloeranAh nevermind, I'll just do the thing in inline assembly
16:14.46brlcadadd an AM_CONDITIONAL into configure.ac that defines some symbol true when on ia32, you then use that in your Makefile.am to add the source
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21:44.51brlcadhmm.. i reckon you're probably not even still around
21:49.43``Erikhrm? what, the, uh, thingie I just sent an email for?
21:49.47``ErikI'm just doing fbsd
21:49.56brlcadgot a sourceball somewhere?
21:50.19``Erikyeah, in the fbsd ports distfiles dir on the fileserver
21:50.29``Erikor /usr/ports/distfiles/ on any fbsd box
21:51.29brlcadheh, thx (cept not on ???1) ;)
21:51.38brlcadno matter, they have svn..
21:51.59``Erikhuh? yeah, uh
21:52.00``Erikerm
21:52.03``Erikit should be on 1
21:52.18``Erikthe name
21:52.19``Erikum
21:52.22brlcadah, yeah
21:52.23brlcadi see it
21:52.27``Eriks/[^-]*-//
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Jeff Waugh - find it at freshmeat.net! Modified by Tim Riker to work with blootbot logs, split per channel, etc. irclog2html for #brlcad on 20061129

irclog2html for #brlcad on 20061129

02:53.26Twingyback!
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12:48.41``Erikhttp://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-364754440098164470
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Jeff Waugh - find it at freshmeat.net! Modified by Tim Riker to work with blootbot logs, split per channel, etc. irclog2html for #brlcad on 20061130

irclog2html for #brlcad on 20061130

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17:36.49MaloeranHum! If anyone is also a gamer and desires a PS3 : http://ps3.shimpinomori.net/index_en.html
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20:29.20brlcadheh
20:44.16``Eriktoast burner o.O
20:45.41brlcadand proud of it
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21:07.50lg_hi
21:08.30lg_anyone online?
21:09.42docelictake a guess.
21:09.59``Erikno, we're all off-line, which is why this channel has no users in it
21:10.04``Erik:)
21:10.22lg_;-) great, i also have no time and should sleep now
21:10.39lg_actually i wanted to ask for a favour...
21:13.02lg_i have asked for some info on the new cpp-interfaces available for brlcad, which should be in rather active development right now. there is a project forming to create a kde-based parametric cad app, and as the focus should be on useability, and the underlying engine could be an external one, the idea was to build up on brlcad
21:15.14MaloeranIf there was anything after "build up on brlcad", the irc length limit cuts it
21:15.50lg_no, there should have been a point maybe ;-)
21:16.58lg_the project name is kreative3d, and there had been some discussion on the topic among interested people, but i could not get any insight into how to interface brlcad as an engine for a cad application written in c++
21:18.51MaloeranThe person holding the 'brlcad' nickname could guide you on this, any idea what piece of BRL-CAD you are interested in? It's one huge beast
21:21.15lg_actually, i thought it should be possible to write a database layer on top of the geometric objects, making it extendeable to app-specific objects such as walls, stairs, which would be generators for brlcad-databases
21:22.00lg_but there is a point where feedback is required, i must be able to load a scene, perform csg, view it in a buffer that must be managed by the cpp-app
21:23.02lg_if i catch user activity in this frame, e.g. clicking on a pixel, i have to be able to call brlcad routines to trace to get the object, e.g. to edit it
21:23.44Maloeran*nods* brlcad is the guy to help there, feel free to idle around until he wakes up
21:24.17lg_i see, it is hard with time zones ;-)
21:24.44lg_(sitting in istanbul, turkey, where it is 23.25 now ;-)
21:25.02MaloeranMetaphorically speaking :), he's in the united states, 16h25 there
21:25.49lg_i know ;-)
21:42.04brlcadhello lg_
21:42.29lg_hi!
21:42.43lg_so you woke up, as others predicted ;-)
21:42.55brlcadcatching my breath
21:43.42lg_by the way, my name is lars an i never get used to these irc-nicks
21:44.01brlcadlg_: so just reading through what you just wrote, there's a couple considerations
21:44.07brlcaddid we talk a couple weeks ago?
21:44.18brlcador was that someone else?
21:44.23lg_yes, but that time there was no kreative3d-group
21:44.28brlcadokay
21:44.59lg_(which was not invented by me, but i try to find out if i can suggest them to work on brlcad)
21:45.37brlcadit sounds like a good idea, and will overall save years of effort really if utilized appropriately
21:45.53brlcadbut that isn't to say that it's a trivial task, and there's work that would need to be done to support it
21:46.53lg_yes, i wasn't expecting anything else. but i guess inventing a new csg would be harder, so IF it is possiblen, than by adopting to an existing engine
21:46.59brlcadbrl-cad is used as a geometry engine, that's one of it's primary purposes -- creating a robust C++ wrapper over that engine is a task in itself, nothing too complicated really but something that's only partiallly completed as is
21:47.55brlcadthere is a prototype start of some effort, I think I mentioned that last time -- and I've actually blocked off some time tomorrow to work on reviewing what we currently have and putting it into revision control somewhere so folks can access it
21:48.31lg_that would be great, as people could estimate what it needed to connect to this effort
21:48.34brlcadthe bigger issue that I'm sure will impact you will be .. getting an explicit representation of the geometry, i.e. getting triangles out so you can stuff it over to opengl
21:49.24brlcadthat layer of brl-cad, converting from the preferred mathematical implicit geometry to an explicit form, needs work to be more robust frankly at least for "real models"
21:49.40lg_yes, i wonder if this should be done in a pure unix-way by using conversion from the .g-database to meshes
21:49.57brlcadbut the other side, e.g. picking and selecting objects along a ray, is rather trivial stuff -- ray-tracing is brl-cad's bread and butter
21:49.59lg_maybe with some caching, it could be possible to create an atomic cad like this?
21:50.59lg_yes, i think the point about tracing back and querying object information is only a question how clean it could be integrated into cpp, so the wrappers
21:51.07brlcadour existing converters work in a 'unix-way" g-
21:51.38brlcadbut that's not the issue, the issue is an algorithmic one .. going from implicit to explicit
21:52.15lg_yes... do you think it is possible to build graphic output on something like the other mesh converters (g2obj e.g.)?
21:52.33brlcadthere is an interface that exists now for doing that conversion, wheter it be by a tool-based approach, or directly calling the same routines that the converters use
21:53.00lg_ok, that sounds interesting for the task
21:53.02brlcadyou mean directly connecting the converter as part of the display process in the app?
21:53.11lg_yes ;-)
21:53.14brlcadah
21:53.17brlcadno
21:53.17brlcad:)
21:53.22brlcadthat would probably be bad :)
21:53.42brlcadconversions take a long time and are generally rather error-prone processes
21:53.56brlcadunless you have pristine geometry, which is rather rare
21:54.25brlcadthere are means to fix that.. it "could" be made more interactive
21:54.29lg_i know, i actually thought about that by the means if caching, doing this step only for modified or added objects
21:55.02brlcadbut that would require (re)implementing a mesh library for brl-cad geometry (which would be a great task)
21:55.19brlcadahh, that is possible, and something we've considered on occassion
21:55.46lg_i would like to avoid building a fat app
21:55.49brlcadit would be doable in that situation, though you're architecting a hack around a suboptimal situation
21:56.05brlcadit's only a little more work to "fix it" so that it works interactively
21:56.57brlcadapologies on the delay responding.. rather overloaded with tasks at the moment and support e-mails have been piling up
21:57.03lg_what do you mean by mesh library - putting the conversion code into a lib?
21:57.11brlcadsure
21:57.16lg_;-) no problem, i am asking for help
21:58.58brlcadall the mesh library would really entail is taking the in-memory brl-cad form, and generating the polygons from the data
21:59.21brlcadit's trivial to get polygons for each primitive, and brl-cad supports that rather easily .. the work is in performing the CSG boolean evaluations
21:59.42lg_hm, so the big task would be to divide the meshing and conversion, and than write an app that loads the mesh - than we could just call rt to query objects and set up on a cpp wrapper for modifying the database.
22:00.22lg_sounds more like a problem with code structure in brlcad for this use than too much algorithm stuff?
22:00.24brlcadyou can either perform that directly on the implicits (via ray-tracing), on triangles to triangles (which an implementation of exists in brl-cad), or on splines to triangles (which doesn't exist functionally yet)
22:00.42brlcadif you can do the meshing, you've got a conversion
22:00.47brlcadthey're the same problem
22:01.13brlcadif you have a mesh or if you don't, brl-cad can still query the geometry fast enough for picking/info purposes
22:02.08lg_yes, but as i understand the meshing code exists and is functional, e.g. in g2obj, just had to be cleanly seperated into libs?
22:03.26brlcadlg_: the problem is with the overall design purpose and approach.. brl-cad's library was written to be numerically sound and robust to represent/evaluate first (which is where implicit geometry comes to play), not for pretty opengl display (which requires explicit geometry)
22:04.00brlcadthat said, we have a mutual need -- everyone wants pretty opengl displays these days ;)
22:04.33lg_;-) what is about the opengl dm, how much useable is the code used there?
22:04.50brlcadthe meshing code exists in several forms and is functional .. but could certainly be improved, and in well defined ways
22:05.41brlcadthe opengl dm in brl-cad isn't really relevant/useful to this purpose
22:07.05lg_i see. maybe it would be worth to test the concept by writing a dummy app?
22:07.30lg_than people could laugh about it or build something serious on the idea
22:08.09brlcadbasically what I'd suggest is to consider what exactly it is that you're wanting from the engine -- if you're actually writing a "CAD" system, there are fundamental design considerations that should be taken into account
22:08.52brlcadin that regard, brl-cad will certainly be a given to use, solid modeling is not something any new project is going to be able to jump into without many years of invested effort
22:10.10brlcadwhich is basically saying that there is a lot provided in brl-cad that you'd be getting for free, even though more work is likely going to be required to get wherre you want
22:10.20brlcadnamely work on the c++ interface and the meshing interface
22:11.04brlcadcollaboration there would certainly be a very good thing -- it's also something on our task plate (both of them) over the next upcoming year for the project
22:11.37lg_yes, that is what i got. i think getting a view of what exists now will be great, and than people can consider what they can and want to do.
22:12.39brlcadI just recently put together a presentation that I can send to you that describes brl-cad in a nutshell
22:13.02brlcadit's rather high-level, so I'
22:13.07lg_the point is that the folks behind the project i mentioned are mainly from gui. and that is a big part of what is missing to make brlcad useable for some applications. if you send me the description, it might motivate folks to jump on the project
22:13.27brlcadso I'm not sure how interesting it'll be to you, but it might at least give you an idea where things are and where they may be going
22:14.01lg_i think especially to see where development takes place is very valuable now
22:14.20brlcadyeah, I completely agree with respect to brl-cad's gui.. that's our own #1 issue being worked on actually, and the reason for the new solid modeler under development (that I suppose would technically be a competitor to kreative3d) ;)
22:14.37brlcadbtw, doesn't creative labs have a tool called kreative3d??
22:15.10lg_i don't hope so, but it is worth to look for.
22:15.59brlcadi vaguely recall some product .. it was either the sound card folks or maybe.. maybe bryce or something
22:16.15lg_but i think that the difference of the modelers as i think it is that i would like to see it not so much as a pure geometry modeler, which might be your goal, right?
22:16.43lg_(when the project starts to produce things, the name has to be checked!)
22:17.00brlcadmaybe just confusing product names.. rather generic terms with a K sound :)
22:17.23lg_yes, it is not that new, that idea
22:17.41brlcadnot sure what you mean by a pure geometry modeler
22:18.20brlcadas for whether our scope is limited to a solid geometry modeler, then initially yes
22:18.50brlcadthough the demand is so large for drafting, that it's also on the development plan but hopefully from contributors that get interested
22:18.51lg_i think you want to create geometry. i am thinking about a layer, where the user actually creates a wall, and that wall object is translated into (brlcad) csg instructions
22:19.26lg_so maybe not all of brlcads features is used
22:19.39brlcadundoubtedly
22:19.46brlcadbrl-cad does more than csg too ;)
22:20.16brlcad(geometry representation-wise)
22:20.33lg_i thought about a modeler doing something as the generator tools brlcad includes
22:21.02brlcadhuh? parse error on that sentance :)
22:21.31brlcad"generator tools brlcad includes"
22:22.21lg_i would actually save the wall objects as a scripts generating brlcad geometry (there is a wall generator in brlcad e.g., which simply outputs a .g database)
22:22.23brlcadooh, maybe s/as the/with/
22:22.37brlcadgotcha
22:22.58brlcadthat's procedural geometry
22:23.43lg_yes. but the generator would have to be able to e.g. provide an opening when a window object requests it
22:24.55brlcadsure, that's just a term for geometry that is created procedurally and generally automatically according to some defined interface process
22:25.13brlcadyou could have a procedural geometry generator for just about anything
22:26.47lg_and i would do it in a way that the wall object not only creates geometry, but would have a set of procedures defined to e.g. cut holes. than this object would create the brlcad calls
22:29.45brlcadso, I'll see if I can get through the c++ interface review tomorrow, and hopefully more progress on it over the weekend so it can be put into svn
22:30.03brlcaddid you want that high-level overview?
22:30.44lg_yes, would be great
22:31.21brlcadokay, I should have that out to you tomorrow at the latest
22:31.43lg_(i do not want you to hurry that much, if it is in the next days, it would be great!)
22:32.12lg_should i give you my mail?
22:32.21brlcadnot any trouble, I've been working on it over the past couple days, just have to take out a few things that aren't yet releasable
22:36.54lg_as i already mentioned, i am a victim of time zones, it is past midnight here. so i would really like to thank you for tonight and switch to sleep mode ;-)
22:38.57lg_i will be on the net on week-end
22:41.11lg_good night (i know most of you have some more hours of daylight before ;-)
22:43.35lg_|-)
22:43.45*** part/#brlcad lg_ (n=lg_@85.101.21.197)
Jeff Waugh - find it at freshmeat.net! Modified by Tim Riker to work with blootbot logs, split per channel, etc. irclog2html for #brlcad on 20061201

irclog2html for #brlcad on 20061201

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13:40.02MaloeranErik, there's a pass of the model prep I have no idea how to efficiently parallelize, your input could be nice if you got some time today
13:43.27MaloeranBriefly. unlike other passes, I can't just "lock" a finite volume of space as I can't easily know in advance how far it will search through the neighbourhood ; the processing required to safely parallelize doubles the amount of work of the pass
14:37.28``ErikO.o
14:54.45MaloeranAny thoughts? Tell me if you would like to know details, or me to shut up and solve that myself :)
15:00.45``Erikwhat exactly is the pass?
15:01.11``Erikthere's not enough info there to say anything...
15:01.31``Erik(this can be done via dcc or phone if you don't wanna say in 'public')
15:01.55``Erikor I suppose you could describe the problem in a file in the cvs repo
15:03.30``Erikhum
15:04.51MaloeranEh thanks, will privmsg here do?
15:05.13``Erik<-- trying to get his thingie ok with privmsg... freenode suck
15:05.14``Eriks
15:05.50``Erikbah
15:05.57MaloeranEfnet then
15:06.03``Erikyeah, much better
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17:49.38CIA-5BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/doc/README.Windows: details on building under Windows
18:20.56MaloeranCommited, ``Erik
18:21.22MaloeranFeel free to report how much it dead-locks, segfaults or bursts in flames :)
18:23.07MaloeranOtherwise, some figure on how much it scales with the number of processors would be nice. There's a #define for that in rfdemo.c
18:24.02``Erikheh
18:24.36``ErikI just ran the truck on a 4 core 2.0 ghz amd64 running fbsd62 and an 8 core 1.8ghz amd64 running linux26
18:24.41``Erikthey get about the same speed...
18:24.43``Eriklemme update
18:27.29``Eriknow I get seggies
18:27.44``Erikthe fbsd one first whined about RF/job.c 101, then the next time went sig11
18:27.51``Erikthe linux one went sig11 after drawing a frame or 2
18:28.11MaloeranAhah, okaayy
18:29.17MaloeranLine 101 is a failed sanity check, I'll look into that. Thanks
18:29.53``Erikon linux
18:29.54``Erik#0  linkListAddPair (listhead0=0x2a95c1cbc0, listhead1=0x2a959740b0, step0=0x2a95c1cb88, step1=0x2a95974080, memblock=0x513bf0) at ../../../RF/prepmodel.c:717
18:29.54``Erik717       if( ( linklist1->used == LINKS_PER_LIST ) ) {
18:30.10``Erik(gdb) bt
18:30.10``Erik#0  linkListAddPair (listhead0=0x2a95c1cbc0, listhead1=0x2a959740b0, step0=0x2a95c1cb88, step1=0x2a95974080, memblock=0x513bf0) at ../../../RF/prepmodel.c:717
18:30.10``Erik#1  0x0000002a9585bcef in jobModelPrepStep (engine=0x50aa20, job=Variable "job" is not available.
18:30.10``Erik) at ../../../RF/prepmodel.c:1721
18:30.10``Erik#2  0x0000002a95852f03 in jobThreadWork (thread=0x50ac28) at ../../../RF/job.c:188
18:30.47MaloeranThanks.
18:31.15``Erikfbsd is consistantly giving the job.c 101 error now
18:31.33MaloeranIf you could output a graph cache with a single thread, you could at least test the raytracing itself
18:34.35``Erikrebuilding...
18:36.27``Erikgot caches... rebuilding to be threaded...
18:37.23MaloeranForcing thread count to 1 now gives you a "worker" thread and the main user thread
18:37.39MaloeranBefore today, function calls would block until the job was done
18:37.47``Eriknow both machines now give the RF/jobs.c 101 error
18:38.01MaloeranOkay, seems I really got something to fix there
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18:38.45``Erikcould be that you're looking for a job to execute before one is put in the queue
18:39.19MaloeranYes, it detects an empty task in the queue... but I'm always adding jobs to the task before queuing the task, within a mutex
18:39.32MaloeranSo I don't quite see what's going on there yet
18:40.01clock_I tried to make some instruction videos with mged and vnc2swf but mged doesn't run inside vnc
18:45.56``ErikI'm not so sure you do, mal... I see context calls jobSystemInit(), which inits the queue and throws threads... and the threads immediately lock and try to grab a job
18:46.16MaloeranThat's fine
18:46.35``Erikbut there's no chance to put anything in the queue and the lock is not held by the originator
18:46.45MaloeranThe line 101 is : We found a queued task not yet initiated, but it has no job in it
18:47.38``Erikso something needs to lock the queue before the threads are thrown... and hold it until a completed task is put into the queue...
18:47.46``Erikcompleted as in fully defined
18:47.56``Erikno?
18:48.11MaloeranThreads are launched, they look for work, don't find any, then wait for signals
18:48.45MaloeranjobTrace locks mutex, allocates a job, puts it into task, queue task ( which sends signal ), unlock mutex
18:49.24MaloeranThe threads find the queued task just fine, but they don't find any job in it, which is... curious
18:51.09``Erikhm, *shrug*
18:58.35``Erikright after the lock?
18:58.37``Erik(can't pm here)
18:58.47``Erik:373 ?
18:59.26MaloeranFine, or in the mutex
18:59.42archivistjust register your nick to pm
19:00.16archivist<PROTECTED>
19:01.08``Erikarchivist: I registered it a long long time ago, forgot the password, talked to an ircop, they said they would delete it in the next hour, the next day it wasn't deleted, tried talking to teh ircop again, they said it was gone, but every time I tried to register, it said it was already registered...
19:01.25``Erikstill job.c +101
19:05.35archivisthehe screwed nickserv    Last Seen: 1 year 7 weeks 6 days (20h 1m 30s) ag
19:05.54archivistyour not here !!!!
19:06.18``Erik:)
19:07.14MaloeranSo the job is detected by the thread adding the task, but not by the other thread reading the task
19:07.50archivistyou could attempt to drop the nick
19:08.07``Erikarchivist: tried it a while back... via an ircop... :)
19:08.43archivistI was wondering if nickserv sees you do it it may work
19:09.12``Eriksees me do what?
19:10.44archivistneeds the password though,  /msg nickserv  DROP <nickname> <password>
19:11.11``Erikyeah, ... I tried to get the oper to drop it cuz I forgot the password
19:11.17MaloeranI would have thought nicknames are dropped eventually
19:11.19``Erikthey couldn't reset the passwd or anything
19:11.26MaloeranI mean, it should be obvious after an year
19:11.46``Erikthe oper said they were, but was gonna drop it 'early' for me... never did, though *shrug* freenode just sucks ;>
19:18.21MaloeranIf I had access to a crashing box, I would print the pointer of the tasks queued, and the pointer of the "empty" task
19:18.52MaloeranOkay. More than the Shark profiler, I need multi-processor without shared caches
19:24.05``Erikheehhe, the list of shit you need keeps growin', dude :D
19:24.13``Erikportable quality sw can be a bitch to write
19:24.59MaloeranI really hate hunting for bugs without being able to reproduce the bugs myself
19:25.41MaloeranThis one is incomprehensible in its apparent simplicity
19:26.28MaloeranDo you think you could give me a couple minutes to insert some printf()s? I fail to understand
19:28.07``Eriksure, tell me what file/line and what to print
19:28.21``Erikor if you want, make a branch in cvs, make the changes, I'll update against it, run it, and let you know the results
19:40.05``Erikefnet...
19:42.43MaloeranThanks, though it doesn't print the pointer of the funky broken task before FAIL()'ing
19:43.36``Erikerm, it doesn't?
19:44.18MaloeranDoesn't seem so at least, lack of fflush perhaps?
19:44.27``Erikhere comes another
19:44.41``Erikokie, I'll fflush both prints
19:45.30MaloeranWait, I'll just send you a job.c
19:50.44MaloeranI think I may have a clue what's going on, finally
19:52.15MaloeranThanks Erik
19:52.18``Eriknp
19:53.18MaloeranDid you get crashes in the prep or during tracing earlier?
19:53.27MaloeranWhen you tried before generating a cache
19:54.03MaloeranAh, during the prep too. Okay
19:57.54MaloeranCool, that's some neat thread race condition. I don't explain the prep crash yet though
19:58.17``Erikcrashed during prep, ran it single threaded to generate the caches, now it crashes during the trace (it actually flashes a pic of the trck up before crashing)
19:59.37MaloeranI don't explain the prep crash yet, but that's a complex beast with many passes, I'm less worried about being able to miss something there
20:06.34brlcad``Erik: tried to just identify with no password?
20:07.01``Erik-NickServ(NickServ@services.)- Password Incorrect
20:10.01brlcadhmm
20:17.28brlcadhappen to know who you talked to?
20:17.40brlcadmaybe got some newb
20:36.11``Erikdon't remember, was heh almost a year ago
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21:50.23b0efwhat toolkit was chosen for the new modeler?
22:08.19``Eriksync
22:08.19``Erikls
22:08.21``Erikwoops
22:42.05brlcadb0ef: it's not decided yet
22:42.39brlcadat least not 100% though there are very strong notions once a full consideration matrix was put together to consider the features of the various options available
22:43.28brlcadstill, there is plenty of work to do on the foundation API layers and geometry management before that decision has to be made -- though if others were involved, that could easily change
22:44.12brlcadthere are some options that will flat out not be considered due to the nature of the project and purpose/vision/approach of the new modeler
22:45.19brlcadand I merely assume you're not talking about archer, as that's mostly unrelated to the long term interface goals
22:47.35brlcad``Erik: got a staffer willing to fix the nickserv account problem, at least when he wanders back
22:47.52brlcadRichiH is da man
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23:21.02brlcad``Erik: so do you want the password reset or the registration deleted, he's willing to do either -- just need to call it
23:21.21brlcadsays he sent you some e-mail(s)
23:21.38MaloeranRegistration deletion should do, no one else can register the nickname as long as he holds it
23:23.59brlcaddone
23:26.16``Erikhum?
23:26.25``Erikwhat's going on?
23:26.32brlcadwake up
23:26.39MaloeranFeel free to register your nickname, Erik
23:26.43brlcadtake you hand off the bottle and register
23:26.48``Erikheh, no bottle
23:26.52``Erikjust got home and started dinner
23:27.13``Erikhum
23:27.30``Erikis there any way to change a password?
23:27.49brlcadthere is, but had a staffer delete your account (blame Maloeran for calling it) so it's gone
23:27.57Maloeran/msg nickserv help
23:28.11``Erikaaaaalllrighty then
23:28.12``Erikheh
23:28.17``Erikdid a drop and register
23:28.35brlcadheh
23:29.02brlcadand quick to change your password before saying that I see :)
23:29.11``Erikof course
23:29.13MaloeranEheh
23:29.16``ErikI'm not a 'tard
23:29.37``Erikbuy me some tequila and I'll get like that soon 'nuff ;)
23:29.46brlcadusually takes about a dozens ghostings before they "get it"
23:29.51brlcadand sometimes they don't
23:30.28MaloeranBah. I'm going to need your help again for that prep bug, Erik, I couldn't manage to trigger it once for the last hour
23:30.50MaloeranI guess it will wait Monday
23:31.37brlcadMaloeran: i've been meaning to mention some "user experience" feedback I had with rfdemo while preparing for the presentation a week ago
23:31.59MaloeranGo ahead, the demo sure is crude
23:32.09``Erik"man, that's one ugly assed truck"
23:32.24brlcadmostly it has to do with the conversion and prep phase, almost undoubtedly degenerate geometry issues
23:32.43MaloeranThe CSG->Triangles leave small and big gaps everywhere, the raytracer isn't always to blame there
23:32.50brlcadi had a bunch of various models that I converted from g to ase cleanly
23:33.22brlcadand must have gotten lucky with the first model as it went through perfectly, about 200k tris
23:34.13brlcadbut all four of the next ones I tried all failed horribly, as they'd prep spewing lots of output and then basically showing what looked like a polygon soup
23:34.26MaloeranThe ASE converter was written specifically to convert the the rotter-lowe and cathedral models, I won't pretend it's perfectly compliant with the specs
23:34.28``Erikmmm, curley brackets
23:35.16brlcadit might have been the ase phase, but it seemed more like degenerate handling code in the reader that was throwing away a lot of triangles
23:35.17MaloeranRight. I think the ASE converter is presently ignoring matrices, because some other ASE exporters would provide matrices... while already transfering the vertices
23:35.54MaloeranIt should only throw away triangles with colinear points, triangles that rays can't intersect
23:36.18Maloeran( My internal triangle representation can not handle triangles of colinear points )
23:36.30brlcadalso, rfdemo's mouse input didn't work nor did most of the key input except the cursor controls and maybe one or two others (e.g. esc didn't work nor did the reset key, etc)
23:36.45MaloeranThere's no mouse input, escape should work
23:37.29Maloeranalready transforming* the vertices
23:37.34brlcadi glanced through the code just to try and see what the bindings even were since I couldn't get anything other than the cursor keys to do anything
23:37.56``Erikbrlcad expects way too much of the thing
23:38.02``Erikthere's a "case 27:" for escaping
23:38.03brlcadpretty much only those four keys worked
23:38.09brlcadnah, I expected very little
23:38.10``Erikand a few others
23:38.14``Eriklike space, ummm
23:38.23MaloeranArrow keys, page up/down to zoom in/out/, escape
23:38.34``Erikspace to stop rotation
23:38.37brlcadthat's what I mean.. ONLY the arrow keys worked
23:38.53brlcadi hit the others testing once I found the bindings in the code
23:39.00``Erikodd
23:39.06brlcadso there's maybe some issue there
23:39.26``Erikworked for me on my g5 and remote X to a fbsd opteron
23:39.30MaloeranI really haven't focused too much on fancy demos... All I wanted was to make sure things were working smoothly so far
23:39.49MaloeranSDL key bindings should work pretty much everywhere, normally
23:39.50brlcadadded a print statement, it was definitely getting the event .. just not doing what it was supposed to
23:39.50``ErikO:-)
23:41.20MaloeranTransparency shouldn't be too much trouble, but I'm not too sure what model to use for that. The truck has gaps everywhere
23:42.23``Erik*shrug* the truck also has lots of internal geometry
23:42.47Maloeranbrlcad, I'm not entirely following when you say it was receiving the events but not doing what it was supposed to
23:43.06MaloeranAre you talking about the escape, space bar keys? I can't think of much else.  Mouse input sure would be good to add
23:44.54brlcadyeah, space is a good example.. press escape and it'd print that an event was received right before doing into whatever the name of that routine is in the case statement
23:45.35brlcadso it'd get there.. but the reset routine to stop the motion wasn't functional for "some" reason
23:45.35``Erikthe interactive demo interface isn't the point, though, ... don't sacrifice too much effort to dress it up, just show off glitzy featues of the lib :)
23:45.59Maloeran<PROTECTED>
23:46.50MaloeranAnyhow, that can't be too serious as a problem
23:46.52brlcadhmm, then that wasn't the one I was looking at or not the same place in the code perhaps .. but same end result
23:47.08brlcadi.e. space wasn't stopping it, and esc wasn't quitting
23:47.20``Erikescape has worked since the beginning for me o.O
23:47.25MaloeranRight, okay. OSX I assume?
23:47.28``Erikwhat A) version and B) os/arch ?
23:47.31brlcadintel OS X
23:47.45brlcadlatest SDL binaries
23:47.59brlcadwhatever ver of rayforce I was given.. recent cvs iirc
23:48.45MaloeranI really have no explanation, the SDL scancodes are supposed to be constant
23:48.52``Erikok, I have a macbook pro here, lemme update it and give it a whack there...
23:57.18MaloeranStatus, Erik?
Jeff Waugh - find it at freshmeat.net! Modified by Tim Riker to work with blootbot logs, split per channel, etc. irclog2html for #brlcad on 20061202

irclog2html for #brlcad on 20061202

00:06.50``Erikstatus: my dinner is almost done
00:06.50``Erik:D
00:06.54``Erikoh, and I got the macbook on the network... now to get the source... and the dependancies... heh
00:07.08MaloeranOh :)
00:11.15``Erikchekcing out...
00:13.18MaloeranThreaded ray tracing should work smoothly now
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03:13.04MatsuHi, Good evening
03:13.12MatsuIs there somebody live?
03:14.32Matsufolks?
03:19.30MaloeranGood evening
03:20.29brlcadhowdy
03:23.13Matsuhey
03:23.18MatsuMan
03:23.33MatsuI cant find a tutorial to explane me how to import dwg files
03:23.34Matsu:(
03:23.58MatsuAnd.. sorry for my poor english... it's not my mothertongue
03:23.59brlcadthere isn't a dwg importer, only a dxf one
03:24.09Matsuoh man... :(
03:24.16brlcadalso dwg is a 2D drafting format, not a 3D solid modeling one
03:24.25brlcadand solid modeling is brl-cad's focus
03:24.39brlcadnot drafting purposes so much
03:24.54MatsuBut man, what cad client should i use then?
03:25.10Matsui knew you were focused in 3d modeling
03:25.14brlcadthe only mildly interesting open source 2D drafter that comes to mind is qcad
03:25.36Matsuqcad?
03:25.38Matsuok
03:25.54Matsuman, thank you very much
03:26.52MatsuAnd let me tell you that this project seemed to me (some one that knows nothing about softs...) you guys have a nice project
03:26.57MatsuMan, thanks
03:27.12MatsuI've autocad
03:27.14Matsubut
03:27.25Matsui want an open source
03:27.31Matsuand i'm also
03:27.34Matsumigrating to linux
03:27.36Matsuso...
03:27.47Matsuauto cad has nothing to linux
03:27.50Matsua pity
03:27.57MaloeranEheh, right. Last time I used Autocad was on DOS, I guess they only migrated to windows
03:28.20Matsuright. they have only support for windows.
03:28.35Matsuand run things through wine is not so cool i'd say
03:28.54Matsui tryied to do with a simple program and is crashig all the time
03:29.04Matsuso.. i dont wanna use wine to run win softs
03:29.20MatsuGuys, ty for all. Good luck
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15:36.53jack-heya
15:36.59jack-anyone around atm?
15:37.25jack-i've run into a silly problem, trying to build adrt
15:37.47jack-the header file splash.h just isn't included with brlcad7.8.4.tgz
15:37.52jack-..wtf ;)
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15:39.15jack-hi clock_
15:39.23clock_jack-: hi
15:39.32clock_Can I run brl-cad under vnc?
15:39.37jack-i bet
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15:39.48jack-i bet you can
15:39.59jack-did you build adrt already?
15:45.41``Erikheh, splash.h is missing? hrm
15:47.15jack-yeah
15:47.22jack-trying the 7.8.0 archive now
15:47.38jack-if it's included there, it's ok
15:47.51jack-but you'll want to include it with 7.8.4 as well ;)
15:48.10``ErikI'd be surprised if it got removed
15:48.17``Erikgiven what it was, I'm sure it was never included
15:48.18``Erik:/
15:48.32jack-observer.c wants it
15:48.46jack-whatever it shows, i don't care :) just want the stuff to build finally
15:49.06``Erikyeah, it's a splashscreen image that just sits for a second, if you hack observer.c so it doesn't try the pslash screen, it'll be all good
15:50.21jack-would need to hack it thoroughly, since it's a header file and observer.c coughs without.missing a couple defines and functions
15:51.22jack-surprise, sigh
15:51.30jack-root# tar tzf brlcad-7.8.0.tgz |grep splash
15:51.34jack-root#
15:51.40jack-;(
15:52.53jack-fn~``Erik: is it big? i could just include a .patch and write it into the builddir myself
15:53.05jack-if you'd dcc splash.h to me :)
15:53.57jack-(i'm trying to package brlcad for fink/macos x, that's why)
15:54.27jack-builds perfectly, but i want adrt too of course
16:04.09``Erikjack: it's an 800x600 image reduced to raw rgb, then printed as an array of numbers...
16:04.32jack-sounds like "yeah, kinda big"
16:04.37``Erikand I don't have it, I'd have to talk to the guy who wrote it, heh, or create an equivelant, or just take out the references to it... (hack observer.c, like I said)
16:05.04``Erik<-- just got a new laptop, so doesn't have ssh keys on sf yet :/ just submitted, but has to wait for the rotation
16:05.22jack-well, observer.c is trying to do more than just access an array..
16:05.32jack-guess i'd need the rest of that file at least ;x
16:06.02jack-ok, maybe you're right and it's doable
16:06.12``Erikanything is doable :D
16:06.20``Erikgiven sufficient time and knowlege
16:06.23``Erikknowledge
16:06.24jack-gonna comment all the isst_logo stuff out and try again
16:06.27jack-heh, yeah
16:06.30``Erikknowledge of spelling would help :D
16:06.46jack-but as a packager, i usually don't waste too much time with a single package you know ;)
16:07.09``Erikwhich os?
16:07.13jack-given that brlcad is huge and awesome, i'll try though
16:07.19jack-fink/macos x
16:07.57``Erikcool, I'm going through and getting all my goodies installed on my new macbook pro 17" :)
16:08.06jack-:)
16:08.16``Erikadrt/isst really isn't taht much of a part of brlcad, though
16:08.25jack-join #fink if you need/want help
16:08.33jack-yeah well, it's the SDL frontend
16:08.39``Erikbrlcad's geometry format is the ".g database", and adrt uses its own formats
16:08.43jack-so quite some mac users would love it
16:08.51``Erikadrt is strictly facetized geomtry, brlcad is very much csg
16:08.58jack-i know, yeah
16:09.03``Erikadrt was just shoved into brlcad as "a convenient place to put it"
16:09.13jack-haha ok :)
16:09.14``ErikI force it to not build on my fbsd port
16:09.23``Erik<-- used to use fink, went to darwinports/macports, sorry ;)
16:09.27jack-and users don't cry?
16:09.39jack-well, you can use both on a single mac without problems
16:09.44``Erik99.9% of users can't find mged, much less know they're missing adrt
16:09.51jack-dp lives in /opt/local while fink uses /sw
16:09.54``Erikyeah, I know
16:09.58``ErikI used to do that
16:10.12jack-what i like about fink is the fact that it's using the debian tools
16:10.15jack-dpkg/apt
16:10.19``Erikbut kept moving to darwinorts more and more... the last thing keeping fink on my machine was gnucash
16:10.25jack-that makes packaging fun for real
16:10.32jack-heh :) ok then
16:10.56``Erik<-- has a couple debian boxes, never packaged for it... is very much a fbsd guy, and dp uses a /usr/ports/ like thingy,almost... kinda... sorta...
16:11.05``Erika lot of retarded, so I THINK it might be more influenced by gentoo
16:11.10jack-kinda, yeah ;)
16:11.10``Erikstupid linux kids *shakes fist* :D
16:11.18jack-you know there's gentoo/osx too
16:11.28jack-but i can't recommend to use that :p
16:11.34``Erikummmmm
16:12.05``Erikhttp://funroll-loops.org/
16:12.46jack-:D
16:12.54``Erik(if I gotta use linux, I go with debian, but I'm a bsd guy... done time on solaris, hpux, aix, ... still likes me my bsd's)
16:12.55jack-times out here, but cute url
16:13.11jack-maybe i should do http://vomit-frame-pointer.org?
16:13.24``Erikyeah, the server seems to be down or something
16:13.25``Erik*sigh*
16:13.36``Erikdoesn't ping
16:13.48``Erikbut the topic of the page is "gentoo is for ricers"
16:13.55jack-hrhr
16:14.17jack-well anyway, thanks for the hint..i'll package brlcad without adrt for now
16:14.17``Erikwith a point by point teardown of the mentality (with real forum and mail list quotes), and pictures of fugly assed 'riced' cars
16:14.17``Erik:)
16:14.40``Erikokie, once the keys rotate, I'll look into doing something about the splash screen
16:14.42CIA-4BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/adrt/isst/observer/Makefile.am: missing splash.h header from dist
16:14.59brlcadjack-: yeah, it's missing from the dist .. but it's in CVS
16:15.09jack-sent an email to brlcad@survice.com, asking for help :) maybe someone notices
16:15.12jack-oh, sweet
16:15.22jack-i'll use anoncvs, thanks
16:15.28``Erikoh, swank
16:15.30``Erikaight
16:15.51brlcadheh, @survice.com?  where'd you get that e-mail from?
16:16.02``Erikehhh, survice.com probably has their own dealie
16:16.13``Eriktrying to convince people they do it so they can charge for it, sheesh
16:16.14``Erik:D
16:16.16jack-http://brlcad.com
16:16.23``Erikbrlcad.org is the real one
16:16.24brlcadthey provide commercial support
16:16.28``Erik:D
16:16.36jack-duh, ok
16:16.38brlcadthe main website is the .org
16:16.44jack-yeah i figured :)
16:16.57jack-but looking for a support email there, i only found out about this chan
16:17.06brlcadeither way, the header is here if you want to give it a try:  http://ftp.brlcad.org/tmp/splash.h
16:17.06``Erikoh ffs
16:17.13``Erikno fucking wonder shit is fucking broken, those fucking fucktards
16:17.14jack-thanks!
16:17.22jack-don't swear ;)
16:17.39``Eriksorry, just realized why my ssh keys weren't working. orgnizational retardation.
16:17.59brlcadjack-: you will have to tweak the build to get adrt to compile, it's not been integrated for a seamless compile yet
16:18.12jack-oh, i see
16:18.15brlcadi.e. you'll have to override the flags to get things to link, for example
16:18.23jack-alright
16:18.29jack-thanks for the warning :)
16:18.40brlcadunless you happen to have stuff in exactly the same place justin did when he last committed.. ;)
16:19.01brlcadthere are some hard-coded paths and other assumptions
16:19.10jack-hehe ok
16:19.19brlcadif you're making a release distribution, you can leave adrt out of it without really any impact
16:19.33jack-ok
16:19.33brlcadadrt isn't installed in our own binary releases yet even
16:19.41jack-alright :)
16:20.51``Erikohyeah, jack, the tcl/tk stuff... it doesn't quite work right if you use the system tcl/tk due to path issues... so at the moment (unless something has changed recently), you'll need to force it to build the included tcl and tk...
16:21.03jack-oh
16:21.06jack-i wondered already
16:21.23jack-because it recognizes and links to my libtcl, but builds its own libtk
16:22.10``Erikhttp://www.freebsd.org/cgi/cvsweb.cgi/ports/cad/brlcad/   <-- the freebsd port stuff
16:22.12brlcadif you run into a problem, recompile with --enable-almost-everything
16:22.22*** join/#brlcad Twingy (n=justin@74.92.144.217)
16:22.24``Erikyou might get some clues out of the makefile
16:22.29jack-ok
16:22.32brlcadthat will remove the external dependencies
16:22.51jack-if i do --without-sdl, it will only disable adrt right?
16:22.57brlcadthere's even a few tools in the dist named after you
16:23.00brlcadg-jack
16:23.01brlcadjack-g
16:23.06``Erikat the moment, only adrt/isst uses sdl, yeah
16:23.08jack-noticed already ;)
16:23.12brlcadheh
16:23.40brlcadyou should need to enable/disable it
16:24.04brlcadadrt will be automatically disabled if it doesn't find what it needs .. and if it's trying, then --disable-adrt
16:24.17jack-ok
16:24.22``Erik--disable-adrt-build
16:24.29brlcadsame flag
16:24.41``Erikokie, *shrug*
16:24.49jack---without-sdl works too, i really don't mind skipping adrt/isst if it's that unimportant
16:24.57brlcad(lots of aliases, so one doesn't have to care)
16:25.18brlcadit'll be cool/good to get adrt working with the default build
16:25.23brlcadbut nobody has done that yet
16:25.34jack-include splash.h and someone might succeed ;)
16:27.09brlcadyou have to be pretty familiar with resolving symbols and linking software to fix it .. your random compiling user does not know much about that and I'd rather not be inundated with support requests
16:27.27brlcadregardless, the splash.h was just fixed (/me points up at CIA message)
16:27.31jack-that's what fink is for, don't worry
16:27.43jack-the users will only but me, since i'm $MAINTAINER
16:27.49jack-*bug
16:28.42brlcadglad someone is putting it into fink.. thanks :)
16:28.58jack-had to autoreconf brlcad anyway, -undefined dynamic_lookup is way too dirty ;)
16:29.06jack-but with autoreconf it builds like a charm
16:29.33brlcadahh, you mean from that source dist
16:29.38jack-yeah
16:29.45jack-brlcad7.8.4.tbz
16:30.29jack-(there's no automatism in fink yet, for checking out cvs/svn repos to get source)
16:33.03jack-if you're interested, i'll show you what i had to do to get it to build
16:33.27brlcadin a bit, sure.. have to run out for a little while though
16:33.27jack-PatchScript: <<
16:33.27jack-autoreconf -fvi
16:33.27jack-perl -pi -e "s,-g -O,-O,g;s,-O2,-Os,g;s,-O3,-Os,g;s,/[s]w,%p,g;" configure
16:33.27jack-perl -pi -e "s,-all_load,,g;" configure aclocal.m4
16:33.28jack-perl -pi -e "s,/usr/local,%p,g;s,-lpython2.4,-L%p/lib/python2.4/config -lpython2.4,g" src/adrt/isst/master/Makefile.in
16:33.31jack-perl -pi -e 's,ac_default_prefix=/usr/local,ac_default_prefix=%p,;s,search_dir="/usr/local",search_dir="/fart",' configure
16:33.33brlcador not :)
16:33.34jack-<<
16:33.36jack-ok
16:34.09jack-ConfigureParams: --mandir=%p/share/man --with-extra-includes=%p/include --with-extra-libs=%p/lib --disable-dependency-tracking --with-x --with-sdl --with-python --with-jdk --with-opengl --enable-proe-plugin-build --enable-unigraphics-build --enable-optimized --enable-progress --disable-debug --libdir=%p/lib/brlcad/lib --bindir=%p/lib/brlcad/bin --includedir=%p/lib/brlcad/include
16:34.37jack-(that way, the huge bunch of binaries/libs doesn't collide with other fink packages like skencil, tcltk etc)
16:36.11brlcaderm, wouldn't the first perl be achieved with a configure CFLAGS?  second isn't necessary without adrt, third should be achieved using --prefix?
16:36.47brlcadsome of the options you've added won't fly too
16:37.10jack-the first...could be, yeah..but i need to replace the hardcoded /sw with the fink prefix of $USER
16:37.11brlcaddependency tracking is automatically disabled for non-cvs builds
16:38.00brlcadall the --with flags are auto-detected and really would probably be best left off regardless with maybe the exception of with-opengl
16:38.10jack-3rd can be removed without adrt, true of course
16:38.19brlcadyou don't want the proe and unigraphics modules, you don't have the developer toolkits to link them
16:38.29jack-i just want to make sure it builds the same on every user's system ;)
16:38.36jack-ok
16:38.56brlcad--enable-almost-everything is the best to ensure it builds the same ;)
16:39.06jack-alright, thanks
16:39.17jack-just sounded too fuzzy for me, i guess ;)
16:39.25brlcadthat will turn on compilation of all our external dependencies so there are no external requirements
16:39.37brlcad--enable-everything if you want to be brief
16:39.42brlcadbut it's the same thing
16:40.00brlcadit just can't enable things like the proe and unigraphics modules, so its .. "almost" everything
16:40.23brlcadthere's a list in configure.ac if you really care, but the flag's intent is what you wanted
16:40.26jack-i see
16:44.46clock_Can I run mged under vnc to make an instruction video?
16:45.39brlcaddon't see why not, but you don't need vnc for that.. there are several screen capture apps that dump to video
16:49.05clock_which?
16:49.16``Erikhrmph, I would IMAGINE that if some form of hardware rasterization is being used (opengl, hw 2d accel), such an app would have to do something to extract the image or info to reconstruct the image from the cards frame buffer... ?
16:49.35``Erik(does any accelerated ogl program display through vnc?)
16:49.46clock_intiailizing and backgrounding please wait
16:50.05``Erikyou should at least get decorations, heh
16:50.16clock_Xlib: extension GLX missing on :1.0. Xlib: extension GLX missiong on :1.0. ogl_open: Can't gen an appropriate visual. Done.
16:50.28clock_that's what I get when I run mged in vncviewer
16:51.18clock_no windows, no decorations nothing
16:51.28clock_Just these messages are printed and I get back to the prompt./
16:51.46clock_I have an unsatisfied feeling from that error message.
16:52.42``Erikthat's an X error, in your X config file, you need the GLX extension
16:56.09brlcador you need to recompile mged without opengl
16:56.42brlcadand just stick to the X11 display manager (--without-opengl will do the trick, iirc)
16:56.47clock_Can I do it without recompiling opengl?
16:56.55clock_I don't want to disable opengl for my real display
16:56.55brlcadonly in classic mode
16:57.04brlcadmged -c .. then select X instead of ogl
16:57.12``Erikheh
16:57.16brlcadbut you'll be missing the menus
16:57.23``ErikI strongly doubt that's what he really wants in making a graphical tutorial
16:57.24``Erik:)
16:57.57brlcadclock_: disabling opengl in mged doesn't remove any functionality, it'll look and behave identical
16:58.21brlcadit's just whether it draws using X11 calls or OpenGL calls internally in brl-cad's display manager library
16:58.33clock_unfortunately, mged -c shows only 1 pane instead of 4
16:58.37clock_and no menu
16:58.47brlcadyep, that's classic mode
16:58.57clock_mged --without-opengl doesn't work
16:59.01brlcadno no
16:59.04brlcadit's a configure option
16:59.08brlcadyou'd have to recompile
16:59.10clock_aha
16:59.19clock_can I run without recompile under vnc while retaining the menus?
16:59.40brlcadthe tcl/tk interface isn't changeable at run-time like the classic mode -- it's compiled for only one display manager
16:59.55brlcadonly if you install GLX
17:00.07clock_what is GLX? Does it make my vnc support opengl?
17:00.16``ErikGLX is how X talks opengl
17:00.36clock_and if I install GLX will I be able to run mged under vnc with the menus?
17:00.49``Erikin your X config file... you should have a Modules section
17:01.01``Erikand in that should be: Load "glx"
17:01.07clock_There is Load "glx"
17:01.11``Erikhum
17:01.11clock_so why doesn't it work?
17:01.17``Erikdo any other opengl programs work via vnc?
17:01.28clock_how can I figure if a program is opengl?
17:01.30``Erik'gears' for example
17:01.42clock_I don't have gears
17:01.46clock_clock@kestrel:~$ gears
17:01.46clock_bash: gears: command not found
17:02.33clock_what other program needs opengl?
17:02.50clock_hehe I found glxgears
17:03.00``Erikwoops, glxgears, yeah
17:03.16clock_No glxgears don't work under vnc, just tried
17:03.28clock_glx extension missing, can't get double-buffered RGB visual
17:04.06clock_but never mind the recording program is crap anyway
17:04.15clock_I managed to make one video explaining how to use gschem
17:04.26clock_but when I tried with links, it always crashed halfway in the transcoding
17:04.43clock_once it said the file it generated itself contains some invalid data, second time it crashed on X error
17:04.55clock_vnc2swf also crashes every couple of minutes, not really usable
17:05.14jack-brlcad: which sdk's are required to build the proe and unigraphics modules? are they open/free?
17:05.22clock_http://ronja.twibright.com/video/gschem.avi that's what I made
17:05.59jack-i mean, it seems to build fine with the stuff enabled, there are no link problems
17:06.04jack-so what do i need?
17:06.21clock_and if I build --without-opengl, will it be also without the menus?
17:07.03``Erikyes
17:07.11clock_sucks
17:07.33jack-brb
17:07.33``Erikjack: the proe and unigraphics libs need propeitary libraries which are very much NOT free
17:07.40jack-oh
17:07.47jack-i see
17:24.37clock_What other screen capture programs do you know?
17:24.45clock_Which don't require Windows?
17:27.11clock_once I think I tried xvidcap but it was disaster
17:27.21clock_it was capable of like 2 frames per second or so
18:07.22jack-ok, seems to build fine without adrt
18:07.34jack-takes a few hours on my 350mhz crapmac though
18:07.58jack-http://pdb.finkproject.org/pdb/maintainer.php?maintainer=jack@krass.com <- that's me, if you're interested
18:08.21jack-sphinx2 and sphinx3 will pop up there soon-ish, too ;)
18:15.06jack-fn~``Erik: which products are the proe/unigraphics libs bundled with?
18:15.14jack-are they available for macos x?
18:17.44``Erikuhm, pro/e has a whole slew of pieces, I THINK just the 'sdk tools' part is needed to build teh converter? they're at, I think, ptc.com
18:17.49``Erikunigraphics, I'm not sure on :/
18:19.57``Erik<-- never touched 'em, brlcad has probably messed with them some...
18:21.34jack-ok, thx
18:22.02jack-might package the pro/e sdk too, if the license lets me
18:22.21``ErikI think the pro/e sdk is a few thousand bucks :(
18:22.28jack-argh, ok:p
18:22.42``Erikand it might only be irix and linux
18:22.46``Erik*shrug*
18:22.47``Erikoh
18:22.49``Erikand windows
18:22.49``Erikheh
18:22.55jack-of course :P
18:23.44jack-everything that builds on linux is portable to darwin, almost
18:23.56jack-unless it's using shitloads of linuxisms like procfs
18:24.19``Erikhmmmm
18:24.31``Eriktheir sdk won't be source available...
18:25.25jack-ok, no proe plugin for my users then
18:25.34jack-no, we don't
18:31.07jack-can i import old faceted models at all, without adrt?
18:31.18jack-stuff like softimage, wavefront, lightwave, imagine etc etc
18:32.54``Erikhrm, I see imports for dxf (autocad), ply (standford?)
18:33.25``Erikelysium neutral
18:33.39jack-dxf is ok already, thanks
18:33.43``Erikexports for obj (wavefront), ...
18:33.55jack-there are tons of converters for *->dxf, so it should be fine
18:34.08``Erikokie :)
18:34.41jack-think it's bad if i let it link to fink's libtcl?
18:35.24jack-we'll see if it runs :)
18:35.26``Erikif you do, then mged won't start right, it'll complain about missing the core .tcl files
18:35.36``Erikat least, that was my experience a bit ago...
18:35.36jack-oh
18:35.41jack-ok, i'll see :)
18:35.51``Erikone of these days, either brlcad or I will get around to fixing that, heh
18:36.05jack-:)
18:36.24jack-doesn't hurt to use zlib, libpng etc if the stuff is there already, right
18:37.35jack-but it's sad, i want adrt to work too hehe
18:37.36``Erikno, zlib png and urt work fine
18:37.54jack-include splash.h with the next tarball and it should build OK
18:38.01``Erikdidja take a look at http://www.freebsd.org/cgi/cvsweb.cgi/ports/cad/brlcad/Makefile?rev=1.18&content-type=text/x-cvsweb-markup ?
18:38.11jack-nope
18:38.47jack-i see :)
18:38.55``Erikit's the freebsd port file... shows all the useful dependancies and flags and shtuff
18:39.11jack-jove gets disabled automatically here, since it's in fink and installed already
18:39.25jack-libpng seems to work too..we'll see
18:40.57``Erikbrlcad includes a copy of jove that will try to build if emacs isn't handy
18:41.06``Erikcuz some dipshits have a thing against us vi guys
18:41.11jack-yeah, i figured :)
18:41.27jack-but it's np, jove is an own package in fink already
18:41.36jack-since not everyone who needs it wants a full emacs install
18:42.51jack-i might package sxemacs in a bit, people tell me it's the best of all forks
18:42.52``Erikfbsd has editors/jove too... but if a user wants an editor, they'll install an editor, I don't think a cad package should require emacs/jove
18:43.07``Erik<-- quit happy in vim  :)
18:43.09jack-since i have no intention of ever using emacs, i have no idea ;)
18:43.12jack-yeah, same here
18:43.15jack-vim rules
18:43.15``Eriksome like nedit, some are happy in nano
18:43.38``Erikthat's why I put --disable-jove in my port file
18:43.50jack-i like kate for some things ;) hehe
18:43.55jack-there are too many editors
18:45.12jack-if i enjoy playing with brlcad, maybe i'll hack adrst/isst to use kde libs instead of sdl
18:45.18jack-but that smells like lots of work ;)
18:45.25jack-heh
18:45.33jack-the linking is fine :)
18:45.34``Erikewie, kde
18:45.48``Erikthe point of isst was to give an almost video game like interface
18:45.56jack-oh, i see
18:46.04jack-sdl is a good choice then, sure thing
18:46.05``Erikfor engineering visualization
18:46.22``Erikengineering/analysis
18:46.23jack-but macosx/fink-sdl means no x11, it's cocoa-native
18:46.43jack-so if i want to have it all on my x11 desktop, i need to change things for adrt and isst
18:46.49``Erikhum, I think isst has no dependancy on X? I don't remember
18:47.02jack-no, only on sdl :) that's what i mean
18:47.10``Erik*shrug*
18:47.57jack-well, i'm glad it doesn't try to build its own sdl at least :P
18:48.06jack-since our sdl is majorly hacked
18:48.24jack-please don't :)
18:48.42jack-opengl is np, runs fine within x11 here
18:48.45jack-sdl doesn't
18:48.49``Erikthere's a variant of brlcad that runs on aqua-tk iirc
18:49.02``Erikexcuse me, BRL-CAD
18:49.03``Erikheh
18:49.06*** join/#brlcad docelic (i=docelic@ri01-029.dialin.iskon.hr)
18:49.11jack-:)
18:49.57jack-so happy i got the whole bunch to link at least
18:50.07``Erikbrlcad runs soley on korean food and mt dew o.O
18:50.08``Erik:D
18:50.37jack-after patching a lot of Makefile.in files with -Wl,-undefined,dynamic_lookup
18:50.53jack-a voice said "dude, why don't you try autoreconfing the shit?"
18:51.06jack-and woops, all problems were gone
18:51.17``Erikheh
18:52.06``Erikcouldn't' feed it through sed to make all the "patches"?
18:52.26jack-perl -pi -e == sed
18:52.42jack-does exactly the same, just slightly faster
18:52.56``Erikprovided the system has perl on it, sure
18:53.00jack-yeah
18:53.15jack-it's a core macosx component, and fink itself is perl code too
18:53.29jack-so it's something i just don't have to worry about, when packaging stuff for fink
18:53.50jack-! :P
18:53.57jack-i like perl
18:54.02``ErikI don't :)
18:54.06jack-it's far from human readable, ok
18:54.10jack-but mighty and useful
18:54.29``Erikit's duct tape for unix *shrug*
18:54.58jack-yeah
18:54.58``Erik99.9999% of it's utility is for when the person using it doesn't know awk and sed well enough
18:54.58jack-there are moments when you just NEED duct tape, aren't there
18:54.59jack-haha .)
18:55.07jack-i prefer perl solely for speed reasons
18:55.17``Erikand the minute you try to do something beyond a one-liner, it gets horribly ugly, unreadable, unmaintainable, ...
18:55.20jack-but when i have to do something more sophisticated, i still use awk
18:55.26jack-(and bc, etc etc)
18:55.55``Erikthat's, uh... two tiny things now... :)
18:56.00jack-:p
18:56.08``Eriksince, uh, '83
18:56.16jack-hehe
18:56.32jack-i "dislike" other stuff lots more
18:56.36``Erikone was just a convenient way to diddle with an sql rdbms that lacked real sql capabilities... stupid mysql
18:56.40jack-like python, ruby, tcl
18:56.48``ErikI like ruby
18:56.58jack-why do i need 100 scripting languages on a system? ;)
18:56.58``Eriknot tcl... d'no python *shrug*
18:57.04jack-perl can do it all, or could
18:57.05``Erikyou don't
18:57.06jack-:P
18:57.07``Erikget rid of perl
18:57.10``Erikand just use something decent
18:57.11``Eriklike ruby
18:57.13``Erikor scheme
18:57.30jack-or lisp, right? :)
18:57.32``Erikgauche has some slickassed hooks in unix land and is pretty dang snappy
18:57.39``Eriklisp is a big heavy
18:57.45jack-j/k
18:57.56jack-lisp is emacsfreak shit, to me
18:58.03jack-i'll never use it, i guess
18:58.19``Erikemacs lisp is an entirely different language than cl
18:58.23``Erikradiaclly different
18:58.48``Erikthe notion of fundamenal things like 'scope' isn't even the same
18:58.58jack-true, ok
19:01.04jack-curious to see how well things will run now, with a separate libdir/bindir
19:01.28jack-what do you think, which binaries are "essential" enough to symlink them to %p/bin?
19:01.41jack-mged, archer, what else?
19:02.28``Erikarcher isn't important... mged'l be the big one... maybe a script to add /sw/brlcad/bin to the path?
19:02.45jack-DescUsage: <<
19:02.45jack-This package has way too many binaries to just pack it all into %p/bin, so it has its own
19:02.45jack-little tree inside %p/lib/%n. Suggested way of using it, on the command line:
19:02.45jack-cd %p/lib/%n/bin;export PATH=.:$PATH
19:02.45jack-<<
19:02.52jack-;)
19:02.58``Erikand set up the right environment variables
19:03.02``Eriklike BRLCAD_ROOT
19:03.05jack-maybe i'll symlink none, and leave it that way
19:03.06jack-oh
19:03.15jack-that's needed? thanks
19:03.31``Erik(it kinda expects to be somewhere like /usr/brlcad or /usr/local/brlcad .. maybe /sw/brlcad ... :) btu it expects to be in its own universe)
19:03.45jack-will make things easy for users if all parts read+respect that, cool
19:04.01jack-%p/lib/brlcad here
19:04.17``Erikso the librarys are in /sw/lib/brlcad/lib/ ?
19:04.20jack-fink really dislikes when packages make dirs right in its root path
19:04.23jack-yeah, exactly
19:04.25``Erikokie
19:04.36``Erik*shrug* :) whatever works
19:04.41jack-:)
19:04.51jack-can't wait to render the bench pics finally
19:04.52jack-hehe
19:04.55``Erikdid you try installing it without fink so it can spew in /usr/brlcad ?
19:05.03jack-nope
19:05.04``Erikand see the four hundred and something binaries in /usr/brlcad/bin/ ?
19:05.17jack-i did build it already, yeah :)
19:05.31jack-tons of binaries, some of which even collide with fink stuff
19:05.43``Erikyeah, that's why it wants its own world
19:05.44jack-that's why i originally thought ok, own universe for this stuff
19:05.48``Eriklibraries collide, too
19:05.53jack-yup
19:05.57jack-libtk ;p
19:06.06``Erikm
19:06.07``Erikum
19:06.12``Erikbrlcad native libraries, even
19:06.27jack-kinda funky that it likes fink's libtcl, but not its libtk
19:06.39jack-maybe i'll let it build everything indeed
19:06.39``Eriklibbn or libbu, one of thsoe two, conflicts with something really common, like a lib in openssl or something
19:06.50jack-i see
19:07.04jack-but fink's openssl has its own libdir as well
19:07.38jack-(since there are 3 of them ... .96 .97 and .98.somealphaorbeta
19:13.36jack-you might want to use a newer libtool, in some future release :)
19:14.05jack-was the only reason why i needed to autoreconf the stuff
19:15.00jack-1.5.22, weird
19:15.15jack-oh wait, after the autoreconf
19:15.19jack-one sec :p
19:21.48jack-root# brlcad-7.8.4/libtool --version
19:21.48jack-ltmain.sh (GNU libtool) 1.5 (1.1220 2003/04/05 19:32:58)
19:22.09``Erikstill a 1.5 *shrug*
19:22.24jack-yeah, but would you recommend 1.5a as well? :P
19:22.30jack-you know what i'm saying
19:22.36jack-1.5.22 is about 2 years newer
19:23.31jack-2.5, to be precise
19:23.49``Erik<-- tends to be cautious about updating important things... reads changelogs and decides if he'll upgrade... given no problems being reported with that libtool, it doesn't seem important to upgrade just for the sake of staying on the bleeding edge
19:23.59jack-we (fink) got quite a few libtool fixes done by upstream, meanwhile ;) other folks as well
19:24.21jack-1.5.22 isn't bleeding edge :) 1.6-svn-testmeplease is
19:24.34jack-1.5.22 is the polished, perfect version of 1.5
19:24.56``Erikwhoa, wait...
19:25.13``Erikdid you just call a gnu tool "polished" and "perfect"???
19:25.17``Erik:>
19:25.20jack-:P
19:25.28jack-as much as it can be, at least
19:25.40jack-there happened a LOT of fixing from 1.5a to 1.5.22, believe me
19:27.18jack-and btw, take my problem report serious plz :) the shipped libtool fucks up badly on osX
19:34.27jack-;)
19:34.43jack-it's one of the most cursed things in #fink, don't worry
19:35.28``Erikhttp://sourceforge.net/tracker/?group_id=105292
19:35.32jack-but you know what, i still like autoconf/automake anyway
19:35.43jack-cause scons, waf and all that shit just sucks donkey balls
19:35.48``Erikautomake is dandy *shrug*
19:36.00``Erikheh
19:36.11``Erikbrlcad used to use something called "cake"
19:36.24``Erik<-- got the joy of converting to automake when he was new to the project :)
19:36.29jack-glad you switched ;)
19:36.45jack-thx for that link btw
19:40.27clock_Do you know that kind if white marker you put over something written with ink and it makes the ink invisible
19:40.43clock_and when you attempt to write over that place with fountain pen again, it will be also erased?
19:41.22jack-yeah
19:41.29jack-tipp-ex here
19:44.25clock_no tippex is kinda a lacquer
19:44.36clock_this is what contains trasparent fluid that chemically reacts with the ink
19:44.41clock_so the paper looks like new
19:44.55clock_but if you write over it, it will react again and the pen will not leave a trace in that place
19:47.13jack-oh
19:47.15jack-i see
19:47.38jack-doesn't work with all inks i bet, but nice anyway
19:47.51jack-good for fooling people
19:48.52clock_it works with the ordinary ink
19:49.05clock_looks like a permanent marker, but the tip is white and moist
21:14.15*** join/#brlcad docelic (i=docelic@ri01-198.dialin.iskon.hr)
21:34.49MaloeranCool, there's an U.S. patent on the concept of making a cat chase the light spot of a hand-held laser
23:43.33brlcadmm.. korean food and mt dew
23:44.00``Eriko.O
23:46.47brlcadshouldn't set or need to set BRLCAD_ROOT unless it's relocated
23:55.02``Erikwhen's the next optimal time to break thing horribly, er, I mean, uh, the next slush for a release?
Jeff Waugh - find it at freshmeat.net! Modified by Tim Riker to work with blootbot logs, split per channel, etc. irclog2html for #brlcad on 20061203

irclog2html for #brlcad on 20061203

00:55.19``Erikok, fine, the time is now :D
01:14.16brlcadplanning on 9th/10th
01:24.53``Erikchad vader is awesome o.O
01:24.59``Erikhttp://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3CiW838wNiM
01:25.13``Erikand, uh, hrm, my commit didn't get a msg here
01:26.19brlcadcia's being a little slow today
01:26.31brlcadlike 40 min or so slow
02:00.48jack-how would i get brlcad to respect $LIBDIR even for the lib/tk8.4/*.tcl files?
02:01.23jack-it built perfectly now, but it wants to overwrite stuff in %p/lib/tk8.4
02:01.31jack-dpkg doesn't like that ;)
02:02.51``Erikheh
02:03.29``Erikummm, modify source? heh, like I said, dude, it wants to live in its own universe :D
02:03.45jack-i want it to, as well ;)
02:04.09jack-but i'd want the man files to go into %p/share/man, that's fine
02:04.12jack-and so on
02:04.26jack-just bindir and libdir ought to be respected
02:05.00brlcadjack-: sounds like something amiss in a libtk Makefile.am
02:05.02``Erikbut it needs the scripts in the right place, too
02:05.25jack-ok, let me check
02:05.37jack-maybe i'll have to use --oldlibdir or something freaky :)
02:06.10jack-Elapsed installation time: 32 minutes, 4 seconds
02:06.10jack-Elapsed time since configuration: 5 hours, 41 minutes, 35 seconds
02:06.20jack-just so you know what kind of crapmac i have
02:06.22brlcadtcl/tk has it's own internal logic for searching for and finding it's resource files, so moving them around from the defaults may break things at run-time
02:06.39jack-ok
02:06.39brlcadthat is pretty slow
02:06.45brlcadabout an 800 G4?
02:06.48jack-no
02:06.52``Erik350mhz?
02:06.54jack-350mhz g4 ;)
02:06.56``Erik:)
02:06.56jack-yeah
02:06.59brlcadah
02:07.00``Erik(he said it earlier)
02:07.09brlcadwell, 32 minutes isn't a full build on a 350 :)
02:07.21jack-it's only the install
02:07.27brlcadahh, right
02:07.29brlcadmissed that
02:07.29jack-Elapsed time since configuration: 5 hours, 41 minutes, 35 seconds
02:07.40jack-that's the build after configure, including the install
02:07.49``Erikit'd make people more careful about their code and build systems :/
02:08.01jack-:P
02:08.26jack-does a 120mhz cyrix need a fan? ;)
02:08.40``Erikjack: oh yeah, old cyrix ran hot
02:14.42jack---enable-everything --without-sdl will let it build everything except for adrt/isst, right?
02:15.30jack-let me know when 7.8.5 is done, plz :)
02:15.46jack-no reason to skip adrt for my maccies
02:17.20jack-if there's still a noteworthy update frequency, sure :)
02:17.42``Erikit's SUPPOSED to be monthly
02:17.53jack-sweet
02:18.06``Erikbut pointy hairs have intervened lately, so that hasn't been realized in a bit :)
02:18.09jack-i'll sign up when you did the setup :)
02:18.11jack-hehe
02:18.14jack-no worries
02:19.59brlcad``Erik: there already is a brlcad-announce
02:20.04brlcadit's just called brlcad-news
02:21.41brlcadand releasing by 9/10th is for this month
02:21.49brlcadit was last month that was missed
02:22.44brlcadthe window is within the first two weeks, unless there is some other need that presses for something off-schedule
02:23.15brlcadjack-: good question
02:23.29``Erikokie, I just looked at the archive for -news and didn't see an announce in the last, uh, ... year
02:23.30brlcadon the whole, probably.. but it'll likely break a couple of the tools
02:23.40jack-hrm
02:23.52jack-so i should specify only $PREFIX?
02:24.08brlcadahh yeah.. I only send the news announcement when it's a bigger push
02:24.09jack-but i want the manpages reachable easily, without playing with MANPATH
02:24.20brlcadthere's not been a full binary release probably since the last -news
02:24.37brlcadthat's when they generally get sent so the announcement can say that binaries for all plats are up
02:24.58jack-feel free to put a fink-pdb-brlcad link onto your website in a bit, when i'm done
02:25.16``Erikok, mebbe there should be an announce list for the package maintainers... :D
02:25.16jack-i should be able to get it migrated to stable quickly, then we'll have it bindisted too
02:25.24``Erikso I won't be in your office every other day asking when the next release is
02:25.32``Erikand we dont' have to remember jack's email...
02:25.33``Erikand ...
02:25.37brlcadjack-: that's what I'd recommend for now, only setting prefix .. unless you want to patch up the couple tools that will likely break (mged, benchmark, and brlman come to mind)
02:25.54``Erik(of course, making freshmeat part of the release checklist would satisfy that, we could just subscribe)
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02:25.55jack-ok
02:26.20jack-but it will still find and link to x libs, opengl, python etc right?
02:26.20brlcadjack- can be added to the dev notification list in HACKING if he wants to be notified
02:26.33jack-sure, why not
02:26.43brlcadand/or even minor releases could be sent to -news, it's just not come up
02:27.00brlcadfreshmeat is already on the release checklist
02:27.11jack-jack@krass.com
02:27.34jack-just put me on some list that will notify me of new releases and stuff
02:28.08``Erik7.8.4 didn't get put in fm
02:28.41``Erik:)
02:28.52brlcadah, just an oversight
02:28.58brlcadtwas minor
02:29.27brlcadyou can update it, you know :)
02:30.51brlcadjack-: added
02:30.59jack-thx
02:31.29``Erik<-- not a project admin on fm
02:33.06brlcadwhat's your username?
02:33.59brlcadalso, regardless.. "Project may be administered by the public" is set to yes
02:34.08brlcadso really anyone can update it
02:35.36brlcadheh, found it.. nice username
02:35.52``Erikah, hum
02:35.58``Erikit is public
02:35.59``Erikn/m
02:36.00``Erik:)
02:36.05``Erik<-- br0ke
02:36.29``Erikbeen a long time since I've done a release on fm, heh
02:40.36brlcads/of/up/
02:44.19``Erik<-- just likes givin' ya shit :D
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08:49.15jack-moin clock_
08:49.37jack-auch brlcad developer? oder eher user?
08:50.29clock_moin
08:50.31clock_eher user
08:50.45jack-ok
08:51.04jack-hab dann wohl bald ein paar fragen ;) build muesst bald durch sein
08:51.40jack-ist adrt fuer dich wichtig/cool/nuetzlich?
08:51.47jack-oder gehts auch ohne?
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13:00.52brlcadtag
14:08.11MaloeranErik, will you be able to assist in identifying the threaded prep bug, today or in the following days? It's impossible for me to reproduce it, might be the fbsd and Linux threads behaving differently, or that I would need 8 cpus instead of 2 cores or 2 cpus
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14:26.04``Erikdon't have access to multicore machines readily today... and the 8 core machine was linux (2.6.9el)
14:26.18``Eriktomorrow morning I'm going to be in a class
14:26.23``Eriktomorrow afternoon I should be able to help
14:26.50MaloeranGreat, thanks
14:43.22brlcadhehe
15:22.56MaloeranActually, I may have understood that bug
16:02.03*** join/#brlcad danfalck (n=dan@pool-71-111-76-8.ptldor.dsl-w.verizon.net)
16:03.20MaloeranThis is both amusing and very sad : telnet towel.blinkenlights.nl
16:11.15*** join/#brlcad docelic (i=docelic@ri02-135.dialin.iskon.hr)
16:21.15``Eriknice
16:21.37*** join/#brlcad Twingy (n=justin@74.92.144.217)
17:15.44danfalckanyone here care to help me with an 'Archer' config/use question?
17:17.02danfalckI'll ask in advance
17:17.10danfalckdoes 'Archer' actually work?
17:18.18danfalckhow can I get 'Archer' to find my blt library (blt2.4 I think) and I have also created a symbolic link, just in case...?
17:21.52danfalckI get lots of 'can't find blt' errors when trying to do anything with it
17:22.46``Erikum, I think it's only been run on windows
17:23.09danfalckok
17:23.33``Erikit's a viewer that survice put together, so we don't really maintain it or pay attention to it... was a convenient place for them to dump it
17:23.34``Erikheh
17:23.40danfalckok
17:24.10danfalckI'll stick with mged then
17:24.25``Erikfeel free to write a better front-end ;)
17:24.37danfalckI'm kind of thinking about it now
17:25.34danfalckI might do something weird, like link Varkon to brlcad ; )
17:25.59danfalckuse a bunch of os commands and pipes
17:27.33danfalckI am starting to learn Unigraphics NX and I am starting to see that with the right front end, brlcad could do some of the same things
17:27.33``Erikhrm, kinda like the procdb stuff in brlcad?
17:27.35``Erik:)
17:28.05``Erik<-- skimming the varkon page, too bad there're no screenies
17:28.17danfalckI was thinking that it would be cool to do the 2d stuff in varkon and extrude it in brlcad
17:28.47danfalckvarkon is fully parametric 2d and 3d surfacing
17:29.08danfalck2d not being surfacing that is : )
17:40.54danfalckbbl- going to the shop
17:48.20Twingyhey dan
17:49.45danfalckI'm back
17:49.50danfalckHi Twingy
17:50.13danfalckhow's gcam going?
17:50.17Twingyvery good
17:50.26TwingyI just got the windows port done
17:50.37Twingythe pocketing seems to be working now too
17:50.40danfalckcool
17:50.53TwingyI'll have another release next weekend after I get back from alabama
17:51.05danfalckgoing to Huntsville?
17:51.09Twingyjah
17:51.38Twingyin feb I'm going to spend a couple months on dxf/stl import
17:51.46Twingythen I'll contour pocketing
17:51.55Twingythen pcb/mcb gerber import
17:52.06Twingythen I'll let the community drive the direction
17:52.35Twingycause at that point I have everything I need to build my stuff
17:52.41danfalckhave you had a lot of downloads?
17:52.50Twingyno clue, not keeping track
17:53.03TwingyI'm going to install mrtg later today though
17:53.09Twingymake sure my bandwidth is still ok
17:53.48Twingythe windows port was 3 days of pain
17:54.16danfalckyou actually own a windows machine ; ) ?
17:54.22TwingyI've been touch with Taig, I should have a link from their site soon
17:54.48Twingyyes, for the electronics stuff
17:55.01Twingyand under Parallels
17:55.32TwingyI have the Mach-X PIC programmer that has limited linux support, but I'm using it under windows right now
17:56.26Twingyk, I got some baseboard molding I need to put in the kitchen, ttyl
17:56.36danfalcksee you later
18:31.06MaloeranArcher is windows only? I thought it was all portable code, tcl/tk and opengl
18:31.58MaloeranI guess I'm just surprised SURVICE never bothered to make it compile on Unix
18:45.21brlcadMaloeran: they have it working on linux too
18:45.39brlcadit is 99% portable code, just not been fixed in cvs for that last percent
18:46.25brlcadthe non-portable part is that it supports binary plug-in modules and that bit of loading code is platform specific (and currently only has the hooks for windows and linux)
18:46.45MaloeranAh, quite good enough
18:57.17``Erikno it's not
18:57.44``Erikand it needs to work on a vax11/netbsd for brlcad
18:57.45``Erik:)
19:10.36brlcadheh
19:14.05dtidrowlol
19:19.00``Erikheh
19:19.09``Eriklinux isn't even a unix :( it just has some similarities on the surface :(
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19:22.17dtidrow``Erik: don't tell SCO that  ;-)
19:23.00docelichttp://ir.sco.com/calculator.cfm?initialAmnt=5000.00&historic_Month=11&historic_Day=1&historic_Year=2003
19:25.25jackarcher coughs here as well btw :P
19:25.37jacksome of the tools have shm issues, but the core runs fine
19:26.03dtidrowdocelic: and that 'investment' will soon be totally worthless  :-)
19:27.21brlcadjack: it's expected to 'cough' everywhere except windows until its integration is cleaned up (similar to archer)
19:27.36jacki see :)
19:27.38brlcadtrivial code fixes, but nobody's done it yet
19:27.58brlcads/similar to archer/similar to adrt/
19:28.09jackyeah, figured :)
19:28.39jacki bet adrt would build if i included splash.h, but whatever..up to you to do the next release including that file
19:30.08jackthe fb* stuff is probably supposed to stay open until one closes the window, right? ;)
19:30.17jackwindow pops up here, but closes immediately
19:32.43brlcadactually, no it's not
19:33.20brlcadif you want it to linger, you have to request it (e.g. use -F/dev/Xl or -F/dev/ogll or set FB_FILE env var to /dev/*l etc)
19:33.31jackoh, sweet
19:33.34brlcador use an fbserv and render into that
19:33.45jackthen that stuff probably works properly :) thanks
19:34.41danfalckbrlcad, can I ask about sketch and extrusion?
19:35.35danfalckis it possible to import lines and arcs from another application- say a dxf file and then do an extrusion of the closed path?
19:35.37brlcaddanfalck: sure .. i'd also commented on archer
19:36.07danfalcksorry, is there an irc log file somewhere?  I was offline for a bit.
19:36.21brlcadarcher works on linux, just hasn't been tweaked in cvs to build cleanly by default yet, it's 99% portable code .. just has one part that supports loading binary modules that isn't portable (and related to why you get blt errors)
19:36.50brlcadjust fyi, in case it matters
19:37.08danfalck<PROTECTED>
19:37.29danfalckI didn't really even know what it was until recently
19:37.55danfalckmged is fine with me though
19:38.02brlcadit's not immediately possible without tweaking the code as it brings in dxf 2D entities in as BRL-CAD NMG entities instead of "sketch" objects .. you can't extrude nmg entities but the converter mod wouldn't be hard at all to make sketchs instead
19:38.58danfalckit would probably be worthwhile to be able to do that
19:39.13brlcada little better would be to mode the extrude operation to work on the 2D NMG entities too
19:39.19danfalckrevolving the closed path would be useful too
19:39.35brlcadthat actually used to exist
19:39.53brlcadbut well predates me and is no longer in the repository
19:40.24brlcadi've been trying to find out what happened to the revolution support myself... :)
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23:06.09ntroutmananyone have time for kd-tree questions>
23:07.46MaloeranJust ask
23:08.39``Erik(odd place to come ask, though)
23:08.40ntroutmanif I have a random list of points, and goto create a kd-tree, do I need to sort the list
23:08.53ntroutmanhey, I'm trying to find anyroom about raytracing
23:09.10docelicntroutman: it's not rooms, it's channels
23:09.16ntroutmanyeah, yeah, so shoot me
23:09.17``Erikthe act of storing in a kd-tree (or any space partition) infers sorting of some form...
23:09.19docelicand try #blenderchat, then asking from there on
23:09.50ntroutmanthanks docelic
23:09.54MaloeranI'm not sure if the blender crowd knows much about raytracing and acceleration structures :)
23:09.58``Erikheh
23:10.29ntroutmanyeah, I'm not sure what channel would be best, as its not really a modeling question, but a programming question
23:10.29Maloeranntroutman, you don't have to "sort" as such, but you'll need to gather some information on your data to be able to make good decisions on the splitting planes
23:10.42ntroutmanMaloeran:
23:11.27ntroutmanMaloeran: I think I should be doing a median selection and creating branches based upon the points that lie on either side of the median
23:11.44ntroutmanbut that would require sorting, wouldn't it, to know which side of a median points fall on
23:11.51MaloeranThat wouldn't give too good performance
23:11.57``Eriknot sorting, but a pas to find min and max
23:12.00``Erikpass
23:12.14MaloeranThe cost of traversal of a branch is area*countOfPrimitive plus some constant
23:12.37ntroutmanokay, find the median, then create sublist containing the points from either side of the median?
23:12.38MaloeranYou want to minimize the traversal cost, isolating empty space or containing the geometry as much as possible
23:12.47MaloeranNot the median, forget the median
23:13.21ntroutmanI'm doing photon-mapping, everything I've read said that the points should be partioned by alternating axis based upon a median slection
23:13.35``Erikmedianis non-optimal, but if it's for education, why not, as a starting point? *shrug*
23:14.01MaloeranAh... Oh, if you want a sub-optimal simple solution, go ahead
23:14.32ntroutmanI'll take a better solution assuming its easy enough to implement
23:14.43ntroutmanI'm not against learning something
23:16.08ntroutmanI want things to be grouped based on euclidian distance, since I have to do a ranged search
23:19.52MaloeranThis brings back memories, Twingy? :)
23:20.15Twingyunproductive ones, yes
23:20.43ntroutmanlol, well its for an undergrad computer-graphics course
23:21.34Twingyso you're paying some one to get told to implement a flawed algorithm, where's the logic in that?
23:22.28ntroutmanactually its a self-picked project, so, uhh, i'm not sure what that makes it, lol
23:22.57ntroutmanwhich part is the flawed algorithm? the photon-mapping or the construction of the kd-tree?
23:23.20MaloeranBoth are pretty much flawed from my point of view
23:23.29MaloeranShould still be instructive though
23:23.37Twingyfor your current educational state, none, when you are more knowledgeable I'll have a different answer for you
23:24.17ntroutmanokay, so we agree that as an undergrad, this is an instructional project, good, so I'm not completely wasting my time
23:24.29Twingyyes, I'll agree with that
23:24.38ntroutmangood :-D
23:24.46ntroutmanI hate wasting to much of my time
23:24.51ntroutmanlol
23:25.31ntroutmananyways, what would be a suggested method of creating the kd-tree if not by the median of the values on a given axis which alternates with each branch?
23:26.07MaloeranAs I said, you want to minimize the traversal cost, you want to isolate and contain geometry from empty space
23:26.51MaloeranYou can still go with the median initially, and fix later on as some flaws become more obvious
23:27.48Maloeran( and if you can think of something better than kdtrees, don't be afraid to explore it )
23:28.26ntroutmanisolate geometry from empty space? but we only store photons that have hit geometry and we only search the map when a ray hits geometry. So are you saying that they should be partioned around what geometry they hit, but isn't that done implicitly as they are already spatially close?
23:31.19MaloeranAh, this is the sorting of photons, not the sorting of primitives for ray/photon intersection
23:32.21ntroutmanyeah, i'm just working on collecting the photons in the emitting stage into a kd-tree for searching in the rendering stage latter
23:36.53MaloeranRight. Median splits clearly wouldn't minimize the search time there either, but it's a good first step
23:37.30MaloeranMedian splits would be nice if every photon had an equal chance of being used... but it's generally not the case
Jeff Waugh - find it at freshmeat.net! Modified by Tim Riker to work with blootbot logs, split per channel, etc. irclog2html for #brlcad on 20061204

irclog2html for #brlcad on 20061204

01:01.00MaloeranI know I have whined about this before, but the C parser of Doxygen sure is broken on many points
01:02.07Twingybut Lee sure seems to love it
01:02.18MaloeranArrays of function pointers are functions, struct variables with gnu99 __attribute__ are "class methods" ( hello, this is C )
01:03.14MaloeranIt's nice on some aspects, but the parser makes some gross mistakes
01:07.43MaloeranWhenever the data type of something is complex, it thinks it's a function or a method. Oh, and I had Doxygen tell me that for(;;) and if() where undocumented "functions" before
01:11.06``Eriknice
01:11.21``Erikif only for() and if() WERE functions in C
01:11.22``Erik*sigh*
01:12.40MaloeranLisp is nice, but I'm not against having some fundamental language contructs that are not functions
01:35.56``Erikhttp://www.calarts.edu/~jwhite/gbj/SeeHim.html
01:36.10``Eriklithp and thcheme have language constructs that aren't functions
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16:51.15brlcad``Erik: you have any 6.2 discs burnt?
17:18.03``Erikuhmmmmmmmm, no, 6.2 isn't released yet
17:18.21``Erikit's rc1
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18:36.22``Erikmal: fixes rendering, yup, but generation is still effed up
18:36.32``Eriklinux 8core amd64...
18:36.33``EriklinkListAddPair (listhead0=0x2a95d3a668, listhead1=0x2a95bfe290, step0=0x2a95d3a618, step1=0x2a95bfe238, memblock=0x513bf0) at ../../../RF/prepmodel.c:718
18:36.34``Erik718       if( ( linklist1->used == LINKS_PER_LIST ) ) {
18:36.34``Erik(gdb) print *linklist1
18:36.34``ErikCannot access memory at address 0x0
18:37.02``Erik(and fbsd just sits, no crash)
18:40.45MaloeranOkay, every time or sometimes?
18:42.52MaloeranAnd fbsd freezes constantly or it's less consistant? I'm just trying to get an idea of what's going on
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18:44.06``Eriklinux:
18:44.07``Erik0x0000002a9585ba41 in jobModelPrepStep (engine=0x50aa20, job=Variable "job" is not available.
18:44.07``Erik) at ../../../RF/prepmodel.c:1720
18:44.07``Erik1720            if( steplink->edge[axismin] < plane ) {
18:44.47MaloeranRight okay, not too consistent, though I guess it does crash pretty much all the time
18:45.19MaloeranAnd always in the same pass, okay
18:46.18``Erikif there's a valid cache, it's all grand... gettin' ~40fps on both the 4 core fbsd and the 8 core linux (hardcoded at 4 threads, I guess)
18:46.58``Erikhah, linux: Can't attach LWP -1023750857: No such process
18:47.10``Erikfbsd seems stuck
18:47.11MaloeranYes, fix rfdemo.c to increase that count, hard-coded #define
18:47.21MaloeranNo such process, eh? :)
18:48.47MaloeranI guess I now have some information to figure out this bug
18:50.22MaloeranThe more backtrace you can throw at me, the easier I think it would be to see what's happening in there
18:51.17``Erik0x0000002a9585ad7f in jobModelPrepEvaluate (engine=0xc4f5d489c4f61b90, job=Variable "job" is not available.
18:51.17``Erik) at ../../../RF/prepmodel.c:974
18:51.17``Erik974           } while( --a );
18:51.19``Erikwonky
18:51.32``Erikbt on that is a blown stack
18:51.53MaloeranGroovy
18:52.55``Erikmeh, paste.lisp.org seems to be down
18:53.06Maloeranrafb.net/paste of course
18:53.17``Erik<-- coudln't remember the url
18:56.10``Erikhttp://rafb.net/paste/results/kONUFQ20.html
18:56.24``Erikthose seem to be the 4 cases I get on linux 2.6 amd64
18:56.51MaloeranGreat, thank you
18:56.56``Eriknp
18:57.10``ErikI have a 2 hour meeting starting in 30 minutes...
18:57.51Maloeran:) Have fun!
19:00.16``Erikheh
19:00.34``Erikjust letting you know in case you have any modifications you want to see run on multi-cache machines
19:01.56``Erikhrm, I'm going to try to bump the thread count to something a bit more straining... hope that linux doesn't drop the ball on it... I know it's ok on fbsd and solaris
19:02.25``Erikheh, gdb might be the problem here :)
19:04.07``Erikgoddamn, it's slugging down ugly :(
19:11.06``Erikhttp://rafb.net/paste/results/wJKR5372.html   <-- new error
19:11.10``Erik128 threads
19:11.28``Erikthat the 'job' variable is unavailable on all the errors is... suspicious
19:19.29MaloeranNew error, always the same pass, and consistent with a corruption of the lists of reverse links
19:20.06Maloeran128 threads, I haven't tried that yet :). I think I can figure out what's going on, the problem has been narrowed a bit
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22:31.01brlcadlooks like Maloeran needs some valgrindage
22:31.37MaloeranI can't reproduce the bug, it's of no use ;)
22:31.55brlcadvalgrind will still report the memory problems
22:32.36brlcadassuming it's not a platformness but actually just problem being masked by linux behavior
22:33.10MaloeranIt's a problem caused by multiple cores not shared the same cache, probably a faulty mutex somewhere
22:33.19brlcadvalgrind is very good in what it does, way better than the memory bounds checkers
22:34.36MaloeranIndeed, I'm just skeptical on its ability to catch a bug that requires multiple caches to occur
22:34.52MaloeranAnyway. If I haven't solved this by tomorrow, I'll call a friend to ask to boot his 4 cores desktop on Linux
22:35.53brlcadyou've narrowed it down that far for sure, or guessing? :)
22:36.30MaloeranI can never reproduce the bug when it is running on a single core, or dual cores but with shared cache
22:36.59brlcadyou mean you can't reproduce the crash
22:38.19brlcadpoint being that you could run for years on a single-thread single core machine and never see bad behavior, yet there still be a memory problem (that is simply masked by OS or C lib behavior)
22:38.42brlcadrunning gentoo?
22:38.52MaloeranOf course so, but that memory problem might not be a "problem" in that case just because threads all share the same cache
22:38.55MaloeranYes
22:40.58dtidrow_workgonna get nasty cold around here tonight  :-(
22:41.00MaloeranAn unsafe memory instruction might just happen to have a direct memory operand, so you'll never see a problem if threads are executed one at a time on the same cache
22:41.49MaloeranAnd no debugger could ever figure that out, unless you trigger the bug with threads running on distinct caches
22:42.22brlcadyou're already assuming that's the bug too (and maybe it is, but it's generally not good to assume when hunting stack corruption)
22:42.45MaloeranThe stack corruption was caused by something else, probably a consequence of the first bug
22:42.51brlcadeasy enough to recompile once, run and get a valgrind report
22:43.11brlcadcomes up clean and then at least basic operation is sound
22:43.43brlcadif you get lucky, though, it might indicate a problem elsewhere that hadn't even been considered, or thought to be fine
22:44.28``Erikheh
22:44.33MaloeranSyscall param write() points to unitialized bytes in XOpenDisplay()  Eheh okay, that was unexpected
22:57.16Maloeran( It's not done prep'ing, I think I'll get results before tomorrow )
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23:11.30MaloeranNo error found by Valgrind, unfortunately
23:19.59``Erikhum
23:20.16``Erikwhat about grabbing bochs, setting it up as a true smp and grabbing a leenewx smp disk image
23:20.19``Erikand see if it can crash in that?
23:20.32``Erik(won' be fast, but it might be a way to reproduce the error)
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Jeff Waugh - find it at freshmeat.net! Modified by Tim Riker to work with blootbot logs, split per channel, etc. irclog2html for #brlcad on 20061205

irclog2html for #brlcad on 20061205

00:01.02``Erikhmmm, 2fps, prep time of 248s
00:01.52MaloeranEh okay, that is old
00:02.43``Erik850mhz athlon
00:02.44``Erik:)
00:09.10MaloeranPerhaps you weren't able to notice due to the crashs, but memory consumption can rise by 7% or so when prep'ing multi-threaded, for the same quality
00:09.36MaloeranSlicing the problem into pieces degrades quality a bit
00:27.52MaloeranPerhaps I should have. The reason why I haven't bought one myself is simple : 30 days work periods, + 35 days delay to get check, + 30 days period to release U.S check funds   With such a 3.5 months delay, I'm just beginning to be paid ;)
00:29.05brlcadheh, fun .. sounds like my first months of getting paid as a student
00:29.14brlcadthat had about a 3 month delay
00:29.28brlcadsummer job was almost over by the time the paychecks started arriving
00:30.01MaloeranEh, exactly. The worst part is that I had paid thousands in lawyers, then came the conference fees
00:30.47MaloeranSo briefly, I'm not quite ready to buy more computer hardware than the laptop yet
00:31.59brlcadI didn't mean you buy one even
00:32.43brlcadcompany equipment, they have the ability to give you one to use if they really want to
00:33.37brlcadand overall, that's usually the best option -- the liability is on their dime, you can get the best hardware, you don't take the new-machine depreciation hit,e tc.
00:34.07MaloeranI think it's actually illegal to give equipment to consultants in Canada, or I could risk being defined as an employee
00:34.18MaloeranIn which case they would have breached the law
00:34.20``Erikheh
00:41.03brlcadahh, mebbie
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10:00.21archivistheh stellas arthritis
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18:12.33brlcadheh
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Jeff Waugh - find it at freshmeat.net! Modified by Tim Riker to work with blootbot logs, split per channel, etc. irclog2html for #brlcad on 20061206

irclog2html for #brlcad on 20061206

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02:25.29dtidrowbrlcad: still on?
04:25.54ntroutman_any photon mapping people in here?
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14:49.23MaloeranCan anyone confirm my understanding of floating point math, specifically that if a < b, then floor(a) will always be <= floor(b) ?
14:49.55MaloeranWithout possibility of bad rounding once in a billion
14:50.55clock_Maloeran: in floating point, no logic can be used.
14:51.13clock_For example the following program printf("%f",a); printf("%f",a); printed two different numbers.
14:51.27clock_And it was still in accordance to the behaviour of floating point numbers.
14:52.21MaloeranMy present understanding of IEEE floats and floor() would imply that the logic above would always be true
14:54.24clock_yes, the floor() function is a nondecreasing one
14:55.33MaloeranI'm just unsure about broken implementations doing 32<->80 bits conversions randomly, I know how the extra bits are discarded, truncation or rounding?
14:55.40MaloeranI don't* know how
14:55.53clock_well there is no logic in floating point numbers
14:56.04clock_if you need to be able to predict the behaviour, use fixed point :D
14:56.38MaloeranThere's logic for sure, it's still clearly predictable
14:57.15archivistfloats are not predictable never compare to 0 etc
14:57.40MaloeranYes, I know that
14:58.13Maloeran( And you can compare if you know for sure you are looking for an identical result )
14:59.02MaloeranBasically, the point here is to do bin sorting, indexing floats in buckets.  Can I be sure that all floats landing in bucket A will be < than the ones in bucket A+1 ?
15:00.33MaloeranThat holds true as long as the implementation don't go around converting between multiple precisions ; I don't know if extra bits are truncated or rounded in that case
15:02.00MaloeranIf that's a problem, I may as well extract mantissa and exponent manually, and work with that
15:07.35clock_Do you know how to get red_mask,... etc. from XWindowAttributes?
15:08.15``Erikieee specifies several rounding models... down, up, truncation, nearest...
15:09.24``ErikI THINK most x86 DEFAULTS to simple truncation, but it's not a defined thing... ummmmm, often there's an ieee header... like on fbsd, it's machine/ieeefp.h and I think on linux it's machine/ieee854.h
15:09.58clock_floor is always down
15:10.24``Erikfloor is always down, but in conversion (32/80 or 64/80), it's definable
15:10.39``Erikby the standard... most chips don't implement ALL of the standard
15:12.12``Erik(also, floor 3.000000000000000000000000000001 maybe interpreted as floor 2.99999999999999999999999999999 due to fp instabilities, and give 2.0ish)
15:12.30``Erikand visa versa
15:12.51MaloeranThe way floor() should work, that should never happen
15:13.07MaloeranI'm concerned by any internal rounding though.. Ah, what a mess
15:13.09``Erikfixed bit representation of floating point sucks arse
15:13.48``Erikand dynamic width floating points (precise numbers) tend to incur a performance and memory penalty (scheme, ruby, libgmp, ...)
15:14.35MaloeranThe point at the moment is to sort points and planes faster than my initial quick and lazy balanced binary tree
15:14.51MaloeranBin sorting by floor() indexing would work, unless chips play dirty tricks on me
15:15.41``Erikthe dirty tricks will likely be in cases where #'s are so close, they don't really matter...
15:15.59MaloeranIt matters a whole lot if 3.0000001 rounds to 2.0
15:16.26``Erikit'd take more 0's than that
15:16.40MaloeranThen the count of triangles in each bin is wrong, the traversal cost calculation is off, the actual sorting by comparison against the plane will give incorrect results, and it gets stuck in an infinite loop
15:17.02``ErikI don't think you'd see it if you're happy with float precision
15:17.54MaloeranIf I do such bin indexing, it is required for all points in bin A to be < than the ones in bin A+1
15:18.01MaloeranUnless things will go really bad :)
15:18.06MaloeranOtherwise* things
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16:39.21brlcadMaloeran: for IEEE floating point, I believe that is a valid assertion <=
16:41.26brlcadbut that isn't to say that there are plenty of libs and implementations that are not conformant out there (really a lot)
16:43.15dtidrowarg
16:43.17brlcadat the hardware and library level really, to the point of not hoping for IEEE
16:43.51``Erikhttp://www.freebsd.org/cgi/cvsweb.cgi/src/lib/msun/src/s_floorf.c?rev=1.7&content-type=text/x-cvsweb-markup
16:43.52``Erikgnarley
16:48.26MaloeranRight, brlcad.. so I guess I can't rely on a comformant behavior on this point
16:49.17brlcaddepends what the purpose is really
16:49.18brlcadi mean it should make things more stable overall
16:49.27brlcadbut it won't necessarily be rock solid
16:51.24brlcadall you can guarantee rock solid is that you're within some epsilon, and doing greater/less than comparisons
16:51.46``Erik*nod* fp sucks
16:52.00MaloeranWith a big impact on performance
16:52.10``Erikit's an approximate representation, so full on precision can't be guaranteed
16:52.44brlcadpretty much a necessity for analytic purposes, but you could certain finagle some #cludgyness that would make it compile-time optional if you wanted
16:53.40Maloeran``Erik, I love floating point. I just wish implementations would all be perfectly predictable and conform to the standard
16:53.51``Erikerm
16:53.53``Erikthe, uh
16:53.58``Erikstandard is not perfectly predictable
16:54.04``Erik754 OR 854... :/
16:54.36MaloeranIt is for the things I tend to care about, like this floor() thing
16:54.50``Erikfloor() is totally predictable
16:55.04``Erikthe number you THINK you have may not be the number you actually have
16:55.22MaloeranYes well, the internal conversions between different representations ( 80<->32 ) mess things up a bit
16:55.26``Erikif I have a very precise function and I feed it an imprecise input, I cannot expect the output to be any more precise than the input
16:55.43MaloeranI'm aware of that, I just need consistency
16:55.58MaloeranIf a < b, I need floor(a) to be <= floor(b), always
16:56.04``Erikit's not the function, it's the notion that you're using an approximate representation that induces the numeric instabilities
16:56.38``Erikif floor() is floorf(), that's probabably a pretty safe assumption... it's probably safe on floord() as well
16:57.09MaloeranI would need to force the implementation to truncate back to 32 bits before floor(), if it's x87
16:58.48``Erikfloor() might not execute on the fpu
16:59.12``Erikthe url I pasted was how fbsd does it, it's a bit twiddle in integer there... I d'no leenewx or others
16:59.14``Erik*shrug*
16:59.28``Erik(and I don't know if that's a POSSIBLE path on fbsd, or an always path)
16:59.55MaloeranThere are faster hardware solutions, a couple cycles
17:00.27``Erikit's highly unlikely you'll have problems, but there's that one little caveat that exists when you do anything at all involving floating point representation... :)
17:01.51clock_Now if someone tells me how to run the damned mged in vnc server I can do screenshot videos in Theora, DivX and Windows Media Video
17:01.55MaloeranOh, I hit some very annoying fp problems with the old prototype before... :)
17:02.38MaloeranI had a static function that would compute the bin index, and it was meant to always return the same index when given the same input. It makes sense of course, I had to debug for a long while to discover that... it didn't!
17:02.53``Erikclock: um, /usr/brlcad/bin/mged ?
17:02.56MaloeranThe reason : GCC was inlining it, and it messed up the 80<->32 bits x87 conversions
17:03.24``Erikheh
17:06.49``Erik1) Correct    21081851083600.37596259382529338 0x42b32c803ebb5060
17:06.49``Erik2) SPARC-quad 21081851083600.37500000000000    0x42b32c803ebb5060
17:06.49``Erik4) IA32       21081851083600.38281250000000    0x42b32c803ebb5062
17:06.53``Erikinteresting
17:07.23brlcadMaloeran: subtracting the two and comparing against an epsilon should be way faster than calling floor() twice (or even once)
17:08.05``Erikhttp://www.validlab.com/goldberg/paper.pdf
17:08.12Maloeranbrlcad, it was for sorting in bins... Make yourself 256 bins, find in which bin a point lands by a mere floor()
17:08.13``Erikhttp://72.5.124.65/sunstudio/articles/fp_errors.html
17:09.22brlcad"by a mere floor()" sounds rather misleading
17:09.47brlcadI'd then say that "by a mere macro" you could do that same thing much faster
17:11.00MaloeranHum, a macro? I mean it's a serial operation without branching, you get the bin index directly after an add and a mul
17:11.25``Erikfloor() has several branch points in the msun package
17:11.37Maloeranfloor() has no branches when executed by the hardware ;)
17:11.51MaloeranThese are probably fallbacks
17:12.00``Erikhrm
17:12.14``ErikI'd expect certain flags to be set depending on what exactly happened
17:12.26``Erik:/
17:13.09``Erik-ffast-math purposefully breaks ieee for speed
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17:14.31MaloeranEven that software implementation is better than the 8 nodes of a binary tree to sort in 256 buckets for example
17:14.45``Erik*shrug*
17:14.47``Erikso do it
17:14.51``Erikand see if the test cases get faster
17:14.53``Erik:)
17:21.21``Erikheh http://support.microsoft.com/kb/214118
17:24.22clock_Use Precision as Displayed option in Word ;-)
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20:33.25MaloeranTip of the day : Blizzards and bicycles are a poor combination
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21:35.07brlcadheh, "tip" of the day, nice pun
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Jeff Waugh - find it at freshmeat.net! Modified by Tim Riker to work with blootbot logs, split per channel, etc. irclog2html for #brlcad on 20061207

irclog2html for #brlcad on 20061207

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13:56.53``Erik=/det
15:20.50brlcad^ad does the same in fewer keystrokes
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15:31.30``Erik^ad is screen, /det is bx, and bx doesn't cope with sigwinch right
15:37.21``Erikin scheme! w000
17:21.06MaloeranAdding that to the list, hum? You have an OS and a raytracer to write in Scheme already, or so you said :)
17:22.48MaloeranErik, can I assume floats are always IEEE 32 bits floats, and double IEEE 64 bits? Got to play with the binary representation to avoid internal rounding and approximations
17:23.24MaloeranThe prep should be 2-3 times faster apparently
17:46.26``Erikum, that's probably safe-ish, but we can test that using autoconf shtuffs
17:57.17MaloeranYes, it just means to write a fallback path if we don't have IEEE floats
17:57.32Maloeranmeans +"I have" to write
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22:39.07CIA-5BRL-CAD: 03mjgillich * 10brlcad/configure.ac: added check for C++ compiler and override default flags to nothing
23:14.29CIA-5BRL-CAD: 03mjgillich * 10brlcad/src/external/Cubit/g-sat.cxx: BRL-CAD to ACIS (export) convertor for importing to CUBIT (1st version) -- needs review and cleanup but fully functional
23:19.26CIA-5BRL-CAD: 03mjgillich * 10brlcad/src/external/Cubit/Makefile.am: initial Makefile for g-sat convertor. Has lib paths hard-coded, needs work to be configurable.
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23:37.18MaloeranErik, feel free to try the threaded prep again. Fixed a minor potential glitch but I have doubts that was it
23:37.40MaloeranOh, and the prep is now twice as fast... with a 2% graph quality loss I don't explain yet
23:43.50``Erikdon't, or can't?
23:50.01MaloeranSorry, I mean I can't explain it yet, I just need to sleep on it
23:52.11MaloeranAny recommendation of LCD monitor brand for a gamer? ( Not me, christmas present )
23:58.11brlcad``Erik: we do it because having unset cflags is no more arbitrary than using -O2 -g
23:59.14brlcadhe didn't add the cflags one -- that was already there, I added it for that very reason.  he overrides cxxflags following example
Jeff Waugh - find it at freshmeat.net! Modified by Tim Riker to work with blootbot logs, split per channel, etc. irclog2html for #brlcad on 20061208

irclog2html for #brlcad on 20061208

00:00.30brlcadI see no reason why GNU should be dictating which flags we should and should not use by default .. as a project we can decide to make optimized or non-optimized a default or some other configuration, that's not GNUs job imho
00:01.32brlcadwe're just about stable enough to flip to having --enable-optimized default to yes instead of no, but that's again a separate decision from GNU's
00:16.28``Erikuhmmm, gnu's "defaults" respect environment variables
00:16.36``Erikand -enable-optimized doesn't do what I happen to want to do
00:16.49``Erikit lacks, for example, the mtune and march stuff I have in my make defaults
00:17.47``Erik(and I don't think you know my hardware better than I do.... :)
00:29.09brlcaduhmmm well if you read it, the environment variables ares still respected
00:29.36brlcadso you can still mtune to your content
00:30.39``Erikheh *shrug* I'm busy writing ruby code :)
00:30.45``Erikcan't be arsed to figur eout what I'm talking about
00:30.46``ErikO:-)
00:30.52brlcadall it does is change what happens when nothing is specified, which is gnu's
00:31.09brlcadconfigure
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03:18.28``Erikhttp://youtube.com/watch?v=PlV8WJ6N3nU   interesting airplane
03:21.19brlcadhttp://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZfbTO0GlONU   interesting diner!
03:21.48brlcadheh, that is cool airplane
03:24.32dtidrowmodel airplane on steroids  :-)
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Jeff Waugh - find it at freshmeat.net! Modified by Tim Riker to work with blootbot logs, split per channel, etc. irclog2html for #brlcad on 20061209

irclog2html for #brlcad on 20061209

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15:48.05MaloeranDoh! So that's the threaded prep bug
15:50.57``Erikheh
15:50.58``Erikwhat was it? :D
15:51.04``Erikbad locking?
15:55.45MaloeranBasically, yes. In some specific circumstances, it was launching jobs that it shouldn't have
16:03.56``Erikah
16:18.42MaloeranFinally you'll be able to tell me how the stuff scales, prep and tracing :)
16:21.51``Erikbut I still have to hack the config file to define the # of threads?
16:22.20``Eriklibbu has a function to report # of cores, might as well link against it since eventually it'll be shoved into that package
16:23.50MaloeranThe define is in rfdemo.c, not the config.h file. Would be easy to specify that by command line or something
16:24.07MaloeranWith glibc, get_nprocs() can be used to get the count of processors
16:25.24MaloeranrtContextEnv( RT_THREAD_COUNT_HINT, threadcount, 0 )  <-- rfdemo.c, specifies the count of threads
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18:11.19``Eriknot every os has glibc... in fact, I can only think of one that does...
18:11.32``Erikthe libbu one calls get_nprocs() on linux
18:11.38``Erikperforms the right sysctl on bsd
18:11.39``Eriketc
18:11.47``Erikworks everywhere arl cares about... :)
18:12.18``Erik(lots of OS abstraction in the BRL-CAD (happy, brlcad?) libraries)
18:31.03MaloeranI get the idea, that belongs outside the raytracing library anyhow, in the rfdemo files
18:35.30MaloeranNeat, you support some exotic platforms in there ;)
18:53.39``Erikheh
18:53.48``Eriklooking at the old vax/vms stuff? or the cray stuff?
18:54.20``Erikbrlcad cranked up a netbsd install on a vms11/70 I think in simh to make sure the product still works there... a bit extreme :)
18:55.00``Erik<-- has teh top plate of a pdp11/70 (pre-vax dec hw) on his windows machine... windows make that smoking machine almost as useful as an old pdp11
18:55.05``Erikmakes
18:58.53MaloeranEheh, very neat
19:00.25MaloeranI suppose there's no harm in just leaving support for these prehistoric platforms there, you can throw it out if it ever gets in the way
19:01.36``Erikheh
19:02.35``Erikand I think that too much code is pitiful and unacceptable in the quality aspect
19:03.04``Eriktake a look at linux kernel code... it's obvious how little thinking was put into portability, and how poorly the hacks to "make it work" here and there are
19:03.22``Erikif you only ever support the specific platform and architecture, yes, you can make those assumptions.
19:03.40MaloeranYes, but I would say it's about "making it work fast"
19:03.50``Erikif you code in that fashion, the second you adjust for another platform, you probably LOSE efficiency as the 'to cope with' hacks get introduced
19:04.04MaloeranIt's an operating system kernel, I would sacrifice design portability for performance
19:04.12``Erikheh
19:04.18``Erikwell, suppose you have two choices
19:04.43``Erikyou can make a generic thing that works everywhere, but it's only 95% as the optimal on your development machine...
19:04.49``Erikso you implement the 100% optimal
19:04.53MaloeranLinux has big chunks of code for each arch it supports, specifically tailored for the architecture
19:04.54``Eriknow someone else has different hw
19:05.15``Erikso they put in if(thisarch) {do this} else {dothis}
19:05.24MaloeranSolaris did that, very portable code, and its deserves the Slowaris nickname
19:05.49``Erikand someone else has different hw, so now it's if(thisarch) {dothis} else if(thisarch) {dothis} else {dothis}
19:05.55``Erikheh, actually
19:06.03``Eriksolaris was designed to be efficient on usparc
19:06.06``Erikand nothing touches it there
19:06.11``Erik'slowaris' is only for the x86 port
19:06.30``Erikbecause it wasn't designed with portability in mind... it was designed for insane efficiency... on a usparc/sbus machine.
19:06.34MaloeranAh I see. I did read some comparisons between Linux and Solaris code design
19:06.50``Eriksolaris is *VERY* tuned to usparc
19:06.54``Eriklinux is *VERY* tuned to x86
19:07.02``Erikthe minute you stray from their native environment, they SUCK
19:07.03``Erik:(
19:07.46MaloeranI thought the Linux kernel had huge blocks of arch-specific code, taillored for performance
19:08.02MaloeranWhile Solaris had elegant layers of abstractions, making it fairly portable, and slow
19:08.35``Eriksolaris is well architected, but x86 was a half-assed afterthough
19:08.55``Erikthe focus was always the latest line of sun hw
19:09.01``Erikm68k, then sparc, then ultrasparc
19:09.19MaloeranWell, you know me, I'll sacrifice code elegance for performance any time. For a kernel, it matters a lot
19:09.26``Erikheh
19:09.37``Erikin the immediate term, that's acceptable
19:09.44``Erikin the long term, it's what leads to shit code
19:09.46``Eriklike the linux kenrel
19:09.49``Erikkernel
19:09.55``Erikgoto hell, jump tables out the wazoo
19:10.02``Erikhack upon hack upon hack
19:10.04``Erikit's... sad.
19:10.12MaloeranI wouldn't qualify the Linux kernel of "shit code"
19:10.23``Erikuh
19:10.24``Erikif you don
19:10.34``Erikif you don't, then you hav enot looked at much kernel code.
19:10.48``Erikseriously, dude, I'm BOGGLED that it works AT ALL
19:11.03MaloeranThe parts I read were far better than most other open source code I have seen
19:11.11``Erikhm
19:11.17``Erikthe networking stack is semi-decent
19:11.25``Erikthe scheduler was just gutted and replaced, it's kinda ok
19:11.42``Erikmemory management, file system, drivers... horrible
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19:12.10MaloeranMemory management may be "horrible" code-wise, but it's still efficient
19:12.41``Erikefficient on hw with the i386 mmu
19:12.42``Eriksure
19:13.02MaloeranOf course so :)
19:13.06``Erikon an alpha? ppc/sp? mips? sparc? vm? of course not
19:13.16MaloeranThere are paths for other architectures, but I haven't read them
19:13.26MaloeranI guess far less work was put on them
19:13.32``Erikthe very *NOTION* that there are other paths
19:13.34``Erikis a hit.
19:13.37``Erik:(
19:13.52MaloeranIt's a compilation time "path", it's only a hit on the time of the programmers
19:14.04``Erikof course, the performance related stuff I tend to do tend to be rare runs
19:14.16``Erikso in computing total cost, developer time is in there
19:14.18MaloeranAnd since it's a kernel, I'm not against having a whole specific path optimized for each architecture
19:14.26``Erikwell
19:14.43``Erikif it were defined sufficiently that each arch could be a totally independant project, great
19:15.08``Erik99.999% of code A) is not that well defined and B) does not have the resource allotment for each plausible arch/os
19:15.14MaloeranNot independant, most of the code can still be shared, but very distinct modules yes
19:15.30``Erikindependant projects can share
19:15.41``ErikI mean, if you were in tune to the bsd family...
19:15.54``Erikfreebsd, openbsd, netbsd,and dragonfly are all very much distinct projects
19:15.56``Erikbut share a LOT
19:16.11``Erikall with different focii
19:16.48MaloeranWell, what can I see, Linux is weaker than alternative on certain architectures.  I use the architectures that offer the best performance/cost ratio, as most of the world, and it's ia32/amd64
19:16.57Maloerancan I say*
19:18.16``Erikfor both administrative effort and for 'well written' code efficiency :/
19:18.38``Erikunderstanding the semantics of the fundamentals helps
19:19.03``Eriklike groking the difference between phkmalloc and dlmalloc
19:19.42``Erik(phk allocs and frees REAL fast, and guarantees contiguous memory... dlmalloc is just a hair slower on alloc and free, but way faster on realloc)
19:19.55``Erikbsd is phkmalloc, linux is dlmalloc
19:19.56``Erik:)
19:20.15``Erikdlmalloc does *NOT* guarantee contiguous memory, physical pages are all over the place ...
19:20.25MaloeranI thought the BSD free() was a bit slow though, perhaps just aggressive on releasing memory pages
19:21.01MaloeranAnd the OSX free() sure is terribly slow :), one is better write a wrapper
19:21.33``Eriklike, uh, *nix filesystems fight for contiguous data... where windows is all over teh place... linux wire memory is all over the place (fragmented... assume the process closes before issues happen)
19:21.54``ErikI think linux and fbsd free memory asynchronously, where osX is synchronous
19:22.18``Erikwhen you free on linux and fbsd, sometime, that memory will be available.. eventually... on osX, that memory is available when the function returns. Damnit.
19:22.26``ErikI'd have to doublecheck to be sure
19:22.31MaloeranContinuity matters for file systems, but for memory? Processors don't really care if two pages are next to each other or not, the translation takes care of that
19:22.40``Erikum
19:22.48``Erikmost cpu's have a mandatory read-ahead
19:23.06``Erikso, uh
19:23.06``Erikif you access memory linearly, it DOES matter
19:23.10MaloeranYes, and that read-ahead relies on the process address space, not the translated addresses
19:23.24``Erikhrm, true
19:23.40``Erik:/
19:23.51``Erikwench on the phone, code editor with ruby code up, ... etc
19:24.04MaloeranI guess continuous memory pages would still be better in other circumstances though. DMA'ing to devices and so on
19:24.22MaloeranEh, all right. I need to go eat breakfast before it closes at 15h anyhow
19:24.43``Erikhehehe :)
19:25.27``Eriklater, duder
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21:55.41sandheya
22:15.33brlcadhello, ...back later...
22:20.29sandwhat's the licence for brlcad?
22:29.41MaloeranLGPL
22:30.25MaloeranAlthough some pieces are BSD I think
22:33.53sandcool
22:33.56sandwhy is it not in debian?
22:33.58sand>P
22:36.00MaloeranNo idea. It isn't in Gentoo either, but it's fairly simple to install
22:57.35brlcadsand: only because nobody from those projects has completed the effort mostly -- there are partial efforts in place for both debian and gentoo
23:04.16sandah
23:59.38``Erikif a debian or gentoo porter were looking to get it hooked up, we'd naturally offer to help how we can... I do the freebsd port, so I can provide a file listing, etc
Jeff Waugh - find it at freshmeat.net! Modified by Tim Riker to work with blootbot logs, split per channel, etc. irclog2html for #brlcad on 20061210

irclog2html for #brlcad on 20061210

01:49.37dtidrowDiscovery's on its way
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03:23.59MaloeranSomewhat unexpected from an encyclopedia with abundant information on subjects such as, let's say, each pokemon and its properties
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09:05.24brlcaddtidrow: ah, dang.. forgot about the takeoff schedule
09:05.31brlcadgood times
09:08.54fbsdbookhow well does the fbsd port of brlcad work ?
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Jeff Waugh - find it at freshmeat.net! Modified by Tim Riker to work with blootbot logs, split per channel, etc. irclog2html for #brlcad on 20061211

irclog2html for #brlcad on 20061211

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16:47.17MaloeranErik, any chance of a quick octo-opteron test today?
17:04.18``Erik'fraid not, I'm rdo today, I can hook you up tomorrow
17:05.21``Erikso I still do 80 hrs the fortnight, I just get one extra day off in exchange for longer days
17:07.55``Erikjoin the club
17:31.58MaloeranAnd Mark asked to update the milestones once again *sigh*
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Jeff Waugh - find it at freshmeat.net! Modified by Tim Riker to work with blootbot logs, split per channel, etc. irclog2html for #brlcad on 20061212

irclog2html for #brlcad on 20061212

02:20.09MaloeranAnd the truck is even worse, Erik. It's filled with cracks, and the overlapping triangles are visible as we of course can't use the triangle orientation
02:20.39MaloeranMust I get this to work with the truck or is there hope of getting proper geometry?
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02:44.21``Erikhehehe
02:44.29``Erikdid I just view the fixed image?
02:44.35``Erik<-- curious what the unfixed image looks like
02:45.54MaloeranProbably the fixed one, yes :)
02:46.09MaloeranThe other one was such a mess, but I didn't spot the error immediately
02:47.51MaloeranOr http://www.rayforce.net/blend01.png for the engine. I need to raise the eye-candy factor a bit
02:48.31``Erikoh neat, they even modelled the throttle body ports
02:48.56MaloeranYes, I'm discovering new parts of this truck with transparency
02:51.36MaloeranTransparency makes rays go through these many inner sectors with > 100 triangles, kind of slow
02:52.04``Erikyeah, but that's a needed capability for the practical application
02:52.26MaloeranOf course. In fact, I'm more complaining about the model than the capability
02:53.01``Erik<-- thinks that model is probably pretty representative of the common data set...
02:53.04``Erik'cept a bunch smaller
02:53.04``Erikheh
02:53.40MaloeranThere are non-axis aligned tiny tubes made of ~500 long thin triangles everywhere in the engine
02:54.00MaloeranSo tiny, yet so much geometry. In comparison, the haul/frame is all chunky
02:54.13``Erikhm, tesselation of the pipe segments?
02:54.42MaloeranYes, and these tubes have inner geometry, some kind of weird inner bolts... or narrowing passages
02:56.45``Erik'inner bolts'? hrmmm, you dispose of a good amount of data in your format
02:57.07``Eriksome of those should be hollow (filled with air, actually, which I don't know if you carried out)
02:57.25``Erikand some of those should be filled with metal or fluids
02:57.34``Erik(wires and hydraulic lines)
02:57.49MaloeranI see. Yes, these little tubes are amazingly detailled
02:58.59``Erikintersection with those also feed into other algorithms with great effect *shrug* so they matter :)
02:59.07MaloeranSo basically, these innocent looking tubes hurt performance badly at the moment
02:59.13MaloeranRight :)
02:59.33MaloeranI'm not really complaining as long as we compare with ADRT on the same data set
02:59.50``Erikyeah, I need to get to that, heh
03:00.56MaloeranNo rush, so many optimisations and ideas left to explore..
03:24.40brlcadah, i bet they're pipes .. which are actually hollow tubes .. so you're probably seeing the outer cylinder and the inner one twisting through paths
03:24.57brlcadin fact, in the image you show.. those are indeed pipes
03:25.57brlcadin implicit form, that's just one extra radius to store for the entire path, so the extra detail comes practically for free
03:26.31dtidrowbrlcad: was MJ in today?
03:26.49brlcaddtidrow: I don't know, I wasn't
03:27.07brlcadand I don't see MJ daily.. usually only once a month
03:27.07dtidrowtried calling, but she must have been out at the time
03:27.16dtidrowI'll send her an email
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14:29.17MaloeranHey Erik, can you ask Lee sometimes if he still want Voxel support in the raytracer? He wasn't sure the last time we met in Baltimore
14:32.05MaloeranWould just be nice to know to update the schedule
14:32.36``Erikif I see him today, sure... his office door was closed when I got my coffee
14:32.46``Erikis the transparency stuff committed?
14:33.23MaloeranIt isn't, I got a bunch of optimisation and SSE paths to do first
14:33.42MaloeranFeel free to test what's in CVS, just to make sure it actually runs this time
14:34.41``ErikI just ran it on a quad opteron fbsd, around 40 fps
14:35.14``ErikosX crashed on bad memory related to a semaphore
14:35.27MaloeranGah! Where?
14:35.32``Erik<-- dorking with brlcad at the moment
14:35.45MaloeranOkay.
14:43.31``Erikhttp://paste.lisp.org/display/32142
14:45.16MaloeranThanks
14:49.47MaloeranFixed
15:01.16MaloeranDone. The current transparency demo uses portable scalar pipelines, so it's slow
15:03.40``Erik12-14 on the quad opteron
15:03.55MaloeranThought so :)
15:04.01MaloeranNo SSE, no volume tracing, etc.
15:04.29``Erikstill impressive *shrug*
15:04.53MaloeranI'm mostly glad that it finally runs flawlessly over there... ... right? :)
15:08.22``Eriknow I get: http://paste.lisp.org/display/32145
15:08.32``Erikit was able to prep
15:08.42``Erikand threw a few frames up... still yellow
15:10.34MaloeranThanks
15:11.05MaloeranAs for the "still yellow" part... Hackish solution would be to put +1 somewhere when on big endian, real solution would be to query SDL on the format of pixels
15:11.15MaloeranWhich I never bothered to do
15:12.17MaloeranHow long does the prep take on the quad opteron?
15:12.42MaloeranI'm just wondering if threading is of much help, depites all the locking
15:16.05``Erikrunning it now...
15:16.06MaloeranSecond bug is understood, now wondering how did I make such a stupid mistake and the best way to reorganize the code
15:16.41``Erikon the 8 core linux opteron, 4 threads runs ~10-12 fps, 8 runs ~18-20 (holding in the initial view)
15:16.57MaloeranSounds fine. What about the prep time?
15:17.27``Erikrunning...
15:17.28MaloeranSSE and volume tracing should double the frame rate or so, for now
15:18.14``Erik<-- doing 4 threads on the 4 core fbsd, 8 threads on the 8 core linux, will then recompile with 1 thread (or should it be 0?) and get the 'serial' #'s
15:18.25``Erikwoops, the linux one crashed
15:18.25Maloeran1 thread
15:18.40MaloeranIf you want truly serial, comment out RF_THREADING from config.h
15:18.49MaloeranSame place? It would make sense
15:20.02``Erikhttp://paste.lisp.org/display/32148
15:20.33Maloeran169 seconds you say? :)
15:22.32``ErikRF/config.h ?
15:22.42MaloeranTo disable threading, yes
15:23.09MaloeranSetting the count of threads to 1 in rfdemo.c would have been somewhat similar
15:23.23``Eriknow I got a gdb hit on the linux box... and don't quite grok why it'd fail.
15:23.29MaloeranThe prep is 12 seconds on this laptop no matter the amount of threads
15:24.03``ErikPreparation time : 9.943 seconds
15:25.38MaloeranIs that astronomical prep time constant with many threads?
15:25.46``Erikhttp://paste.lisp.org/display/32149
15:25.47MaloeranIt's... rather peculiar
15:26.40``Eriklemme try it with two threads
15:26.43MaloeranOkay, seems I got a couple things to fix still
15:28.15``Eriktwo threads gave me 53.403s on the fbsd/quad
15:28.33MaloeranAh, messy
15:28.45MaloeranOn the laptop : Serial is 10 seconds, threaded is 12 seconds
15:28.59MaloeranCould the synchronisation be killing performance that much?
15:29.03``Erikhow many cores?
15:29.06MaloeranOne
15:29.29``Erikso chances are you almost never get a block on lock
15:29.55``Eriksince you don't do system calls, as long as your critical sections are faster to compute than your scheduled quanta
15:29.58MaloeranOh it does, but it doesn't have to flush and reload cache lines constantly because another processor wrote there
15:30.24``Erik*shrug*
15:30.34MaloeranI really wouldn't have thought it could be dramatically *slower* with threads
15:31.43MaloeranUnless there's some glitch I'm missing, because that's not consistent with my understanding of cache synchronisation
15:31.48MaloeranIt shouldn't be _that_ bad
15:33.21MaloeranIs it the same thing on Linux? I just want to make sure because that's one OS I know well
15:33.30``Erikhttp://paste.lisp.org/display/32149#1   <-- crash on the mac
15:33.40``Eriklinux crashes
15:34.20MaloeranOkay, thanks.  I'll fix this mess to begin with
15:35.13``Erikbut... not... consistantly...
15:35.14``Erikhrm
15:38.40``Erikhrmph, 8 threads to 12.117, 4 took 10.907, 2 took 9.555, 1 took 10.600
15:38.50``Erikthat's one sample each, so *shrug* heh
15:39.00MaloeranOkay, that makes more sense
15:39.08``Erikon linux... the 8 and 4 had to be run several times due to crashing
15:39.21MaloeranAhaha, right *shivers*
15:45.31MaloeranIs the non-scalability of pthreads on fbsd the same problem Justin encountered long ago?
15:45.44MaloeranHe had to switch to some non-default library or something
15:46.13``Erikum, he was initially using a green threading library
15:46.35``Erikso it wasn't taking advantage of multiple cores... the libmap.conf is adjusted so all apps use the thr many-many library now
15:48.34``Erikany news on the moving arrangemens, btw?
15:49.53MaloeranThe last news were Survice asking me to fill some form with questions such as if I had ever been part of the Germany Nazi government, participated or organized genocide, etc.
15:52.22MaloeranI'm not seeing the prep bug, do you have a couple more minutes to stockpile backtraces to throw at me?
15:53.25MaloeranWith all these bugs, I'm astonished I never encounter them
15:55.21clock_With all these gay boys, I'm astonished I never encounter them
16:04.51``Eriksleep(0); is an interesting device
16:07.31``Erikwhat milestone alterations were ya looking for?
16:08.08MaloeranNot too sure, let's wait Lee's word on voxels
16:08.59``Erikhe's right here, he suspects the voxel requirement may go away
16:09.22MaloeranOh, good then
16:09.45``Erik...
16:09.46MaloeranI'm sure spending more time than I would have thought on little bugs I can't reproduce
16:10.57MaloeranDistributed processing will wait until mere threading is solid
16:17.43``Erikheh
16:18.13``Eriknow that you have firing all the way through, the segment construction should be fairly easy
16:18.42MaloeranYes, there isn't much left to code there
16:19.14``Erikregression test suite isn't done? having identical execution behavior in a deterministic command might help squash these bugs a lot faster
16:19.36``Erikor mebbe it is done, hrm, regtest...
16:20.13MaloeranIt's somewhat done, it runs pre-set tests, log and compare the results
16:21.05MaloeranIt expects a reglogs/ directory with reference images, I don't think I uploaded tghat
16:21.22Maloeranthat, even.  Anyhow, it's probably not of much help for the bugs I'm currently looking for
16:22.47``Erikhave you put abuse on it with valgrind?
16:23.11MaloeranYes, I haven't found anything but only tried twice ; it takes minutes to run
16:25.57MaloeranFrom my point of view, what remains to be done : Bug squishing, complete support for and test API features, distribute processing, dynamic geometry, optimisation
16:27.52``Erikand buttoning up the regression suite, segment stuff, ...
16:28.24MaloeranRight, segment stuff is part of testing API features
16:36.36MaloeranAnyhow, I could guess dates, I'm just annoyed at having no idea how much more time hunting thread prep bugs will drain
16:39.46MaloeranI have the impression it's mostly memory allocation/freeing that hurts performance, it's a global mutex
16:40.02MaloeranI should allocate and manage blocks per-thread
16:41.13MaloeranWhich would spare the hypertransport bandwidth too, if using Numa to allocate memory in the right banks
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17:59.40MaloeranEver used helgrind, Erik? Is it worth downgrading to glibc 2.3, in order to be able to use valgrind 2.2, to be able to use helgrind?
19:12.27``Erik'helgrind'?
19:12.34``Erik<-- hasn't even used valgrind, heh
19:22.09``Erikheh, I love when twats brag about putting a 'big' drive in their windows box...
19:22.10``Erik$ df -k | awk '{print $2}' | grep '^[0-9]*$' | xargs | sed 's/ /+/g;s,.*,(&)/(1024*1024*1024),' | bc -l | cut -b -5
19:22.10``Erik17.15
19:24.42Maloeranbc: command not found  :(
19:25.35MaloeranI spent a hour getting a box up to running helgrind, the race condition checker of valgrind
19:25.56MaloeranAnd it's worthless, it detects thousands of false-positive because it can't follow the thread logic
19:28.01``Erikhow the fuck dn't you have bc? it's as basic and fundamental as grep or ls
19:29.51MaloeranEh I know, the laptop is a bit minimalist
19:34.36``ErikI should get my ultra5 working an ddrop solaris on it and give you an account, heh
19:34.38``Erika real unix.
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19:51.17``Erik(if your lappie is something debian based, you could always try "apt-get install bc")
20:12.48MaloeranCool Erik, I wouldn't mind another test platform
20:13.12MaloeranI have accounts on the servers and desktops of friends, and it's all Linux
20:16.51CIA-5BRL-CAD: 03mjgillich * 10brlcad/include/raytrace.h: Changed smooth_bot to bot_smooth inorder to match other bot commands and functions.
20:21.21CIA-5BRL-CAD: 03mjgillich * 10brlcad/src/tclscripts/helplib.tcl: Changed smooth_bot to bot_smooth inorder to match other bot commands and functions.
20:25.46CIA-5BRL-CAD: 03mjgillich * 10brlcad/src/mged/ (chgmodel.c cmd.c): Changed smooth_bot to bot_smooth inorder to match other bot commands and functions.
20:31.50CIA-5BRL-CAD: 03mjgillich * 10brlcad/src/librt/ (g_bot.c wdb_obj.c): Changed smooth_bot to bot_smooth inorder to match other bot commands and functions.
20:35.09CIA-5BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/librt/bool.c:
20:35.09CIA-5BRL-CAD: the comments around the conditional were entirely unintentional.. from the
20:35.12CIA-5BRL-CAD: rt_g.debug to RT_G_DEBUG change that was made in 2001. it's just taken this
20:35.14CIA-5BRL-CAD: long before someone actually tried to shoot a bundle of rays with librt (or at
20:35.15CIA-5BRL-CAD: least this long for someone to complain about the verbose blather)
20:39.19MaloeranAh, nice one :)
20:59.09``Erikmy u5 is really gutted at the moment... needs disk, memory, and a cpu...
20:59.33``Erik<-- thinking it might be cheaper to buy one and use his current one for parts
21:00.56``Erikheh
21:00.58``Erikhttp://cgi.ebay.com/SGI-Octane-Dual-195-R10k-Irix-6-5-22_W0QQitemZ250057622638QQihZ015QQcategoryZ11223QQssPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem
21:01.00``Erikthere ya go :)
21:16.12``Erikhttp://cgi.ebay.com/Sun-Microsystems-E450-Server-Quad-400MHz_W0QQitemZ320058948288QQihZ011QQcategoryZ51239QQssPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem
21:16.13``Erikswank
22:35.38dtidrow_worknetsplit  :-(
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22:37.52dtidrow_workwb
22:40.47brlcadheh
22:40.57brlcadnetwork funkyness
22:41.26brlcadah, heh.. WALLOP christel:  Hi all! One of our main rotation servers just dropped off the face of the planet. Hundreds of trained little monkeys are looking to get it back online. Affected users approximately 3500. Thank you for flying
22:41.30brlcad<PROTECTED>
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22:45.48dtidrow_worklol
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22:48.22tofueep
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23:12.08CIA-5BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/tclscripts/ (helpcomm.tcl mged/help.tcl):
23:12.08CIA-5BRL-CAD: fix an mged bug in the various help commands so that they actually work with
23:12.09CIA-5BRL-CAD: more than one command listed (as their own help messages implied they were
23:12.09CIA-5BRL-CAD: capable of). affects help, helplib, and helpdevel which now take zero, one, or
23:12.09CIA-5BRL-CAD: more command names.
23:18.53CIA-5BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/NEWS:
23:18.53CIA-5BRL-CAD: mged help command now shows help for all args listed. this fixes a bug with the
23:18.53CIA-5BRL-CAD: 'help' command where issuing something like 'helpdevel aip hist' would report
23:18.53CIA-5BRL-CAD: the non-existance of the 'aip hist' command. now correctly returns the help for
23:18.53CIA-5BRL-CAD: all listed individually as was documented. this issue was reported by an
23:18.54CIA-5BRL-CAD: analyst at arl.
23:51.25``Erikdamn, gettin' your ass smacked down there :D
Jeff Waugh - find it at freshmeat.net! Modified by Tim Riker to work with blootbot logs, split per channel, etc. irclog2html for #brlcad on 20061213

irclog2html for #brlcad on 20061213

01:37.39brlcadhuh? who wha?
01:39.36dtidrow_worklol
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01:49.14MaloeranErik, by inserting  if(!(rand()&0xFF))sleep(0);  in every blank line of the prep in all functions, I'm able to reproduce your bugs
01:49.22brlcadhehe
01:49.50dtidrow_workis somebody being sarcastic?
01:50.06brlcadi think he means it
01:56.02MaloeranYes I'm serious, nothing less drastic managed to trigger the bug
01:58.58dtidrow_workcrazy
02:52.01``Erikheh
02:53.13``Erikdti: multithreaded apps that are very cpu bound when running on a single core have a behavior of saturating their quanta (therefore lucking out with exclusive access to the regions that should be locked)
02:53.36``Erikbut the second you bring that app to a machine with multiple cores and caches, shit goes bad...
02:54.17``Eriksleep(0) just surrenders the quanta, so shoving it in some place "weird" can produce some of the side effects you see from having multiple alu's
03:39.06Maloeran``Erik, just sleep()s weren't enough, I needed the rand()
03:39.24MaloeranAnd I needed a whole lot of them saturated all over the code :)
03:40.40MaloeranIt should be shortly fixed now, so I can finally move on to... actual work
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06:38.42MaloeranAh, I just woke up at 2h with the bug in mind and finally understood
06:40.55MaloeranI'll share the explanation tomorrow if you are curious Erik, that was... subtle.  Hrm okay, I'll go sleep on the fix now
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09:56.56brlcadgood times
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15:50.19MaloeranGah, death to gprof with its complete lack of support for both threads and dlopen'ed libraries.  Writing a profiler with GCC's -finstrument-functions seems so easy anyway
15:50.53MaloeranWon't be a match for the all mighty Shark, but gprof isn't hard to beat
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16:15.48brlcadmm.. Shark
16:15.54brlcadshark is sweet
16:22.40dtidrow_work?
16:22.43dtidrow_workwhat is it?
16:22.58MaloeranThe OSX profiler, amazingly good
16:42.01dtidrow_workah
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16:50.10brlcadone of the best profilers around, free or otherwise (and it's free)
16:51.59brlcadpart of the apple "CHUD" tools (Computer Hardware Understanding Developer Tools)
16:52.36``Erikhttp://www.macworld.com/news/2006/12/12/allchin/index.php
16:52.37``Erikheh
16:54.17brlcadhttp://developer.apple.com/tools/shark_optimize.html
16:54.35brlcadand http://developer.apple.com/tools/sharkoptimize.html
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16:54.49brlcadand one i've not even tried yet.. http://developer.apple.com/tools/performance/optimizingwithsystemtrace.html
16:57.51MaloeranI read posts in mailing lists from 1999 to 2006 about gprof/glibc/kernel people blaming each other for the failures of gprof
16:58.03MaloeranNo one agrees on what the "best" way is, so nothing gets done. Lovely!
17:00.12brlcadshark gets a lot of what it gets, erm most, from the system performance counters on the hardware
17:00.25brlcadwhich while not standard on x86 hardware, is on most newer systems
17:00.37brlcadbut still something gprof knows pretty much nothing about
17:01.19brlcadprojects like oprofile seem to be doing better at using the performance counters, but still have a ways to go
17:01.20MaloeranYes I know. All I'm asking for is the sum of the time spent in functions, and I can't get that
17:01.45brlcadoprofile might do that much for you
17:01.52brlcadhttp://oprofile.sourceforge.net/about/
17:02.05MaloeranOprofile is system-wide and it requires a kernel driver
17:02.24MaloeranI didn't look further as it seemed overkill and inappropriate
17:02.32brlcadkernel module, you insmod it
17:02.46brlcadit gives the numbers you want:  http://oprofile.sourceforge.net/examples/
17:03.21``Erikis shark on the intel chips yet?
17:03.32brlcadyears ago afaik
17:04.50MaloeranHrmph, then it's no good to see the reasons behind the prep's poor scalability
17:05.40brlcadwhat's no good?
17:06.11brlcadthe chud tools have been available on the intel macs since the early beta days
17:06.23MaloeranI mean if Erik can't run it by lack of root
17:06.33brlcadahh
17:06.49*** join/#brlcad clock__ (n=clock@zux221-122-143.adsl.green.ch)
17:07.27brlcadhe probably just needs to make a phone call or send an e-mail and that problem could probably go away
17:10.36MaloeranAhah, about the name of the GNU BFD library : "The name came from a conversation David Wallace was having with Richard Stallman about the library: RMS said that it would be quite hard--David said "BFD". Stallman was right, but the name stuck."
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17:13.41``Erikinteresting, um, view choices
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17:46.24Maloeranoprofile:   configure: error: Unsupported kernel version   with 2.6.17
17:47.20MaloeranEnough of this mess, I'll write a profiler in spare time
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18:32.39``Erikcommitcommitcommit
18:32.42``Erikho hum
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18:50.25MaloeranAre you sure it got enough ram for the truck?
18:50.47MaloeranIt doesn't take that much once cached, but the prep climbs high
20:26.48``Erikjust the file
20:27.29``ErikI'd hope a gig is enough... I mean, yeah, it's a slow old machine, but it's a slow old unix machine, not one of these pissant desktop crappers
20:30.53MaloeranAh, neat. I'm not qualifying anything with 1gb ram of "crusty old" yet
20:34.15``Erikhrm
20:34.31``Erikthis machine might be as old as your 486 heh
20:35.22MaloeranOh :)
20:37.54``Erikhm, no, I htink it's only 11 yrs old
20:40.30``Erikhrmmmm, which is about when pc's were in the 8-16mb range
20:40.31``Erik:)
20:40.43MaloeranIt really amuses me to think that back on that 486, I could barely perform 5-6 fast assembly instructions per pixel to get smooth rendering
20:40.58MaloeranNow, tracing a ray for every pixel against 260k triangles? Ah, no problem
20:41.10``Erikheh
20:41.25``Erikyou should install 'vice' and code on that some :) I learned a lot on a c64
20:41.59``Erik'kernel' hacking, even, writing mnems (halfway between straight machine code and asm) and pointing the interrupt vector to my new code
20:42.46MaloeranI love optimisation but I'm not too fond of OS stuff. I had written a primitive 32 bits DOS on that 486
20:43.05MaloeranIt could run *some* DOS software within a very primitive multitasking 32 bits OS
20:45.36MaloeranI still keep pieces of old code... Hum, my old DOS isometric tile rendering engine with lighting optimized in assembly for 486/Pentium, I got to read that again sometimes
20:46.05Maloeran:( How so, why?
20:46.13``Erikwas moving several thousand miles
20:46.29``Erikso dumped a lot of unnecessary possessions
20:46.30MaloeranWell, disks, you can at least bring that
20:46.49``Erikyeah, but without the drives and computers, they're useless
20:47.40MaloeranThe time I lost most of my code was when my father "threw" me out of the house for quitting college, many years ago
20:47.47``Erik(back then, not only did every os have its own filesystem, but the  very nature of disk layout was different bewteen machines and needed their own drives)
20:48.19``Erikso even if you wrote an appleII or dos program to read a c64 fs, it'd still just get garbage off of the media
20:48.42MaloeranReally? I thought it was possible for some drives, not x86 floppy drives though
20:48.45``ErikI've seen some hacks for making hw do unnatural things like that, yeah
20:49.03``Erikbut *shrug* hadn't when I pitched the machines...
20:49.24``Erikyard sale, actually, didn't throw them out, heh
20:49.32``Erikmy mom sold 'em :/
20:49.36MaloeranYou didn't bury them in the woods and marked down the gps coodinates or anything? :)
20:49.40MaloeranEw.
20:52.30MaloeranAh, old good times on that 486... Adding one fast assembly instruction per pixel could reduce performance by some 20%, that was amusing optimisation
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Jeff Waugh - find it at freshmeat.net! Modified by Tim Riker to work with blootbot logs, split per channel, etc. irclog2html for #brlcad on 20061214

irclog2html for #brlcad on 20061214

05:48.58MaloeranErik, when compiling on x86 without optimisation, GCC doesn't preserve the function stack alignement on 16 bytes so stuff breaks
05:49.19MaloeranWhere should I stick -mpreferred-stack-boundary=4 ?
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14:12.56``ErikI'd imagine in autoconf, after checking if it makes sense
14:26.34``Erikheh http://jeremy.zawodny.com/blog/archives/008122.html
14:29.54MaloeranWeird, weird...
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22:23.41``Erika2/det
22:30.25Maloeranhttp://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/science/nature/6212716.stm  -  Impressive little things
23:30.12dtidrow_workhttp://www.irf.se/allsky/rtascirf.html - some pretty vivid auroral activity right now  :-)
23:33.17MaloeranNoooo... Curse, I just found a more efficient solution for quad volume tracing, way too many improvements are piled up
23:33.27Maloeran"The neverending to-do list"
23:35.58``Erikheh, mark 'em with priority and deadline to keep 'em straight, dude :)
23:36.25``Erik<-- working on a hardcore todolist/projectmgmt program lately o.O
23:36.27``Erikfor shits&giggles
23:36.31``Erikcuz I'm sick int he head
23:36.49MaloeranOhh, sounds hardcore indeed
23:37.13``Erikheh
23:37.57``Erikthe coding isn't hardcore, how it treats that and what the goals are (and how they differ from apparently absolutely everything else in the field) is what's interesting :)
23:38.55``Erikthe ugly guts basically is a realtime scheduler type ting
23:38.56``Erikthing
23:39.11``Erikwith a faggy gui on top for stupid humans
23:39.23``Erikinstead of being wired into OS process mgmt...
23:39.23``Erik:)
23:40.21MaloeranAh, I have no project management skills whatsoever, always worked alone and on what I felt like
23:40.32``Erikyou still have to manage your own time
23:40.51MaloeranI do? I'm not doing too good at that lately
23:41.01``Erikand understand the dependancy graph of what you have to do, and how that feeds into deadlines, resources, etc
23:41.27``Erikwell, *shrug* I'm not saying anyhting about the quality, but it's still done, even if it's intuitive and entirely in your head
23:41.52``Erikpersonally, I feel like I have 20 zillion little things to take care of with complicated dependancy and context terrain associated...
23:41.57``Erikand it depresses me, so I end up doing nothing
23:42.03MaloeranAhah
23:42.31``Erikso I want a tool to reduce the amount of information I have to cope with in my forebrain
23:43.02MaloeranRight. I basically scrub that on pieces of paper lying around
23:43.17``Erikyeah, heh, I'd have a fucking book
23:43.18``Erik:(
23:43.41MaloeranThat bad? Ew.
23:44.43``Erik<- involved with dozens of 'projects' at work and dozens away
23:46.53``Erikseriously, dude, we need to get some X's in the "done" column so satiate the pointy hairs and purse string holders :)
23:48.32``Erikmmmmm, vodka o.O
23:51.28MaloeranAll right, I hope no one is going to complain about performance before I had a chance to go through my neverending to-do list
23:52.00MaloeranAny clue if Lee expects better performance soon, or he was "satisfied"?
23:54.16``Erikum, I'm under the impression that he was amazed at the performance on my desktop
23:54.46``Erikwell, write it down real quick, like in your todo file
23:55.01``Eriksee if you can bang out enough to mark off the milestones until now
23:55.10``Erikthen do the new solution
23:55.42``Erikif we both agree that a milestone is "done", then it's done, it doesn't have to be 100% perfect, there's always polish at the end
23:56.15``Erikand when it's "all done", we're gonna slap it into some "real" applications, and if it's nifty, more work on it may be requested :)
23:56.42MaloeranUnderstood :)
23:57.57MaloeranHrm, just to clarify a point, did you mean Lee was amazed at the non-sse transparency?
23:58.10``Erikummmm
23:58.19``ErikI think I was running it on the quad opteron fbsd box
23:58.27MaloeranSSE path was commited today, but it's still lacking optimisation
23:58.34``Erikand remote-X to my mac
23:58.55``Erikok, I showed him yesterday or day before
23:59.17``ErikI need to get adrt/isst up and running
23:59.34``Erikand we need to figure out an appropriate "benchmark" comparison between the two
Jeff Waugh - find it at freshmeat.net! Modified by Tim Riker to work with blootbot logs, split per channel, etc. irclog2html for #brlcad on 20061215

irclog2html for #brlcad on 20061215

00:01.53MaloeranAgreed, the truck would do
04:30.08MaloeranAh, Google Earth has a Linux x86 binary now, it's about time I try that thing
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12:12.50CIA-5BRL-CAD: 03d_rossberg * 10brlcad/misc/win32-msvc/Dll/brlcad.def:
12:12.50CIA-5BRL-CAD: Changed smooth_bot to bot_smooth inorder to match other bot commands and functions.
12:12.50CIA-5BRL-CAD: (mjgillich)
14:07.24``Erik"inorder" *snicker*
14:08.27archivistits a new word
14:09.09``Erikeven worse than "alot"
15:37.41``Erikhttp://video.on.nytimes.com/ifr_main.jsp?nsid=a718aabc2:10f868fb86f:6dca&fr_story=d14603c1e23e6ce37920a8134a2e27b1405a4991&st=1166196732850&mp=FLV&cpf=false&fvn=8&fr=121506_103212_718aabc2x10f868fb86fx6dcb&rdm=718952.4941765041
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16:24.19clock_preorder, postorder, inorder - what's wrong on the inorder word?
16:25.21archivistits a fugly word and should be in-order
16:25.57clock_Meine Name ist Guenter Fernseher.
16:26.15clock_Germans puts words together without space
16:27.12archivistgerman are strange the way they build words
16:36.09clock_In Hawaii, do they use a palm tree for a christmas tree?
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Jeff Waugh - find it at freshmeat.net! Modified by Tim Riker to work with blootbot logs, split per channel, etc. irclog2html for #brlcad on 20061216

irclog2html for #brlcad on 20061216

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Jeff Waugh - find it at freshmeat.net! Modified by Tim Riker to work with blootbot logs, split per channel, etc. irclog2html for #brlcad on 20061217

irclog2html for #brlcad on 20061217

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Jeff Waugh - find it at freshmeat.net! Modified by Tim Riker to work with blootbot logs, split per channel, etc. irclog2html for #brlcad on 20061218

irclog2html for #brlcad on 20061218

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14:43.23CIA-5BRL-CAD: 03johnranderson * 10brlcad/src/librtserver/rtserver.c: shootray method now sets ray index to zero to avoid confusion with bundle rays
14:44.37brlcadahh, so that's why...
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18:30.44``Erik*yawn*
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Jeff Waugh - find it at freshmeat.net! Modified by Tim Riker to work with blootbot logs, split per channel, etc. irclog2html for #brlcad on 20061219

irclog2html for #brlcad on 20061219

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20:41.51CIA-5BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/doc/ (README.AIX README.IRIX README.VAX README.Windows): Documentation updates/fixes courtesy of Brian Rapp.
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22:57.43``Eriklinux is as linux does? :D
Jeff Waugh - find it at freshmeat.net! Modified by Tim Riker to work with blootbot logs, split per channel, etc. irclog2html for #brlcad on 20061220

irclog2html for #brlcad on 20061220

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01:45.36MaloeranHey Erik, I understand you spoke to Lee about my "needs" for multi-cache boxes, who spoke to Mark, who came back to me speaking of sending a computer?...
01:46.28MaloeranIs there some hope of seeing that old box at home of yours put online? That would be easier and less wasteful
02:36.47``Erikthe sun? that'd take a few hundred bucks to get operational, I think
02:36.56``Erikit's been gutted... no cpu, no ram, no drive
02:38.12``Erik<-- can't give you an account on any of his work machines due to policy... if mark has access, I d'no if he'd be able to give you an account
03:12.14TwingyI have an ultra sparc that's operational
03:15.29MaloeranNeat Justin, how many processors in there?
03:16.56MaloeranErik, it's apparently more expensive in man hours to type "adduser" on a box than purchase a new one.  I haven't figured that one yet
03:17.40Twingy200 MHz ultrasparc 1 w/ 128MB RAM
03:18.50MaloeranOne processor?
03:19.04Twingycorrect
03:19.56MaloeranEheh, thanks though unfortunately the point is mostly to be able to test code on many cores
03:20.33MaloeranTo find bugs due to non-shared cache, work on scalability, explore NUMA memory allocation, etc.
03:27.55MaloeranAh, Bush considers "more marines" as the solution in Iraq.  When will someone explain to him the difference between marines and peacekeepers, social workers?
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21:36.26``Erikmust be one hell of a breakfast
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23:32.48Music_ShuffleHi.
23:32.53Music_ShuffleAnyone here?
23:33.13``Eriknope
23:33.17Music_Shuffle./Ding.
23:33.22Music_ShuffleA quick CAD hardware question.
23:33.53Music_ShuffleWhy is CAD so...demanding?
23:33.59Music_ShuffleSorry, was wondering about the phrasing :P
23:34.18Music_ShuffleHardware wise.
23:34.18brlcadyou mean just in general?
23:34.21Music_ShuffleYeah.
23:34.40Music_ShuffleLike workstations for CAD have huge amount of RAM, SCSI HDD's, Xeon's, etc, etc.
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23:35.04Music_ShuffleI've never used CAD software, but I've always wondered why it requires so much...power. For lack ofa better term.
23:35.04brlcadit's not incredibly demanding, imho, but in general the models are massive and the computation requirements to process those models are more than you have on a workstation
23:35.30Music_ShuffleOh, so you're saying that it just ends up being so huge, that regardless of complexity, you need a lot of power just to be able to manipulate it?
23:35.47brlcadeven compared to something like a game, CAD models (at least "real" ones) are intensely more complicated than any gaming model, plenty won't fit onto OpenGL memory
23:36.06Music_ShuffleErr...more complicated how?
23:36.11brlcadright, manipulation, visualization, consistency/topology checking
23:36.37Music_ShuffleOh right, because the game physics don't have to actually WORK.
23:36.39``ErikI d'no if I'd call a xeon a workstation
23:36.39Music_ShuffleMm.
23:36.48Music_ShuffleWhy not? >.>
23:36.48brlcadwell in a game, you only have to care that something looks nice -- there's lots of tricks to get that result -- in CAD you have all that same external detail, if not more, as well as all of the internal geometry
23:37.01``Erikin general, "workstations" historically have bunches of ram and scsi disk, been that way since workstations were kinda born...
23:37.03brlcadwhich might be wires, bolts, nuts, pipes, engine blocks, etc
23:37.13``Erikwintel boxes and other "home toys" were HIGHLY abnormal in the grand scheme of things
23:37.45Music_ShuffleSo most of today's CAD systems run what?
23:38.01``Erikhuh?
23:38.20Music_ShuffleCPU-wise. Is it mostly Xeons, Opterons, any specific?
23:38.46``Erikmost have a set of archs they run on... x86 tending to be included these days
23:39.18brlcadalso when you're dealing with solid modeling CAD, which is a subset of CAD but one of the largest domains, the software has an additional workload of repeatedly evaluating the geometry to make sure it's topologically sound, that parametric contraints are upheld/updated if they exist, that overlaps/interferences are detected, that you don't end up with non-solid geometry
23:39.47``Eriktoo many syllables, I'm on vacation o.O :D back to simpsons for me
23:39.56Music_ShuffleLol!
23:40.04archivistand interference checking
23:40.09Music_ShuffleOh ok.
23:40.42Music_ShuffleSo pretty much its caused by needing to model reality in its entirety using software.
23:41.20archivistoops missed it
23:41.37``ErikI mean, graphic artists (like the people making posters and books and stuff) tend to have gobs of ram on their desktop
23:42.06brlcadi wish these laptops went higher than 2GB.. i'm constantly out of memory
23:42.12``Erikbrlcad: how many gigs did you blow over with a typesetting program?
23:43.40``Erik(and video games tend to punt on huge parts of the dataset to make it usable on lesser systems... I mean, take a look at 'roam' and 'vipm' and how they are designed to page off of disk so only the closest stuff is a high LOD)
23:43.52``Erikespecially roam o.O heh
23:44.14Music_Shufflelol
23:44.27``Eriknot to mention other hacks like faking normals on highly decimated meshes so they kinda sorta appear more complex
23:44.37brlcadswap is currently at just under 15GB.. looks like the book i'm working on is using up a little over 3GB
23:45.00Music_ShuffleFif...teen?
23:45.04``Erik(it's all moving, so the human brain fixes the fuckups in videogames... in manufacturing or analysis, the fuckups are unacceptable)
23:45.34Music_ShuffleRight, that nasty bit about stuff breaking, falling, going boom, etc.
23:46.20brlcadyep, 15... and I don't even have a CAD model open right now .. that'd be a few more GB to worry about :)
23:46.47Music_ShuffleMmm...what do you do with 15 gigs of swap? >_<
23:46.53Twingy<PROTECTED>
23:47.35brlcadthough mged is pretty light on the memory usage overhead.. uses just a little more in memory than it takes to store it on disk, maybe 2X-10X disk size if it's going to be analyzed or raytraced, depending on the model
23:48.38brlcadMusic_Shuffle: mostly a ton of image processing right now -- putting together a print-quality book, lots of high-resolution imagery, several image processing apps in the workflow
23:48.48Music_ShuffleAhh ok
23:48.51Music_ShuffleYou're writing a book? :o
23:49.05brlcadand of course this terminal running an irc client.. gotta be adding at least 10MB to the mix *ahem*
23:49.06``Erik"20 years of playboy centefolds"
23:49.13brlcadwoot
23:49.19Music_ShuffleLol
23:49.22``Erikthat's the book, right? :D
23:49.24brlcadhmm.. 20 years..
23:49.45``Erik240 girls too much?
23:50.05``ErikI mean, a couple pages each... sounds like a lovely coffee table book...
23:50.12``Erikperfect gift for friends and family
Jeff Waugh - find it at freshmeat.net! Modified by Tim Riker to work with blootbot logs, split per channel, etc. irclog2html for #brlcad on 20061221

irclog2html for #brlcad on 20061221

00:15.36``Erik"cad uses more ram than quake, wwwaaaahhhhhhhh"
00:15.38``Erik*cougH*
00:15.39``ErikO:-)
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03:23.05MaloeranAh, a torrent website figures out in the top 10 search terms of Google
03:25.31brlcadheh
03:28.27Twingywoo woo woo woo *bonks brlcad on the head 3 stooges style*
04:12.16brlcadknyuck knyuck knyuck wise-guy, eh?
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16:01.03``Eriko.O
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16:14.23``Erikhah
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16:35.43MaloeranMerry monday and a happy new week!
16:43.51MaloeranOn this special day, let's hope and rationalize on dreams of harmony between managers and programmers in the troubled regions of our world
16:47.36``Erikand happy hellidays and all that :)
16:49.20``Erikoh, btw, from some quick&dirty testing, you're in the neighborhood of 40x faster (I haven't done a REAL benchmark comparison, just pulled some quick numbers... different geometry, but I think it's reasonably similar in occlusion and complexity)... bear in mind, you'll slow down once you put in hooks for distributed
16:49.43Maloeran40 times faster than the old libRT?
16:49.51``ErikI'm rigging up a fbsd box with a funny compiler and X in a funny place, just to see what happens when I try to build all the ports
16:49.52``Erikadrt
16:50.02Maloeran40 times faster than adrt? What the...
16:50.06``Eriklibrt gets 30krps on a good day, heh
16:50.50MaloeranI'm writing state synchronisation at the moment, for distributed processing. Distributed processing shouldn't be too much of a hit with (very) good bandwidth
16:50.50``Erikquick and dirty numbers.. may be a whole order of magnitude off ;) I was looking at some old scalability graph info
16:51.16``Erikhow good is "(very) good"? gigE? ib? myri?
16:51.24``Erikor does 100base count?
16:51.47MaloeranIt all depends of the task, how much data there is to send back to the master node ; just raw pixels, or intersection coordinates and so on?
16:52.04MaloeranRaw pixels shouldn't scale too bad with some compression
16:52.49MaloeranI'm still working on state synchronisation, so that all operations on the state of the master node is propagated to the other nodes ; any new node can connect to the master at any time too, and its state is sync'ed
16:52.50``Erikummmm, I'm not sure... the end application kinda needs in and out coordinates, with their component
16:53.17MaloeranBut what for? Can't it use these coordinates on the remote node, and just send back the result?
16:53.53MaloeranSending results of computations based on the raytracing is clearly _much_ lighter, usually
16:53.54``Erikit's supposed to be integrated easily with another app... which expects a segment list
16:54.05``Erikobviously, but it has to talk with a brain dead app
16:54.10MaloeranCan't this other app run its "shader" code remotely?
16:54.23``Eriknope
16:54.30``Erik:/ it's retarded
16:54.32MaloeranTransfering raw raytracing results will kill performance badly
16:54.38MaloeranGah! Rewrite that :p
16:54.40``Erikit tries to be the center of the universe
16:54.44``Eriknot mine to rewrite... heh
16:54.57``Erikthe, uh, horror project was an attempt to rewrite it
16:55.04MaloeranOh, I see
16:55.05``Erikbrlcad isn't dumb enough to touch it ;)
16:55.29``Erikwe did put some of the, um, application into adrt and got really good results
16:56.00``Eriknaturally, that'll be something to try down the road with rayforce... but the way we got the pointy hairs to sign off and throw money was by talking the retarded language of the retarded... people...
16:56.01``Erik:)
16:56.20MaloeranEh, typical :)
16:56.33``Erikthat's the real world for ya, dude :(
16:56.37MaloeranThe code lying on top of rayforce must be fixed to be distributed too, seriously
16:56.50``Erikum
16:56.54``Erikit, uhhh, sorta kinda is...
16:56.56MaloeranYou can't distribute half of the processing and expect good results, transfering all half-way results back to the master node
16:57.06``Erikbut it was done by the same dude who did the distributed processing for the hell project
16:57.23``Erikso the scalability goes to about 2 nodes... 3 nodes costs more th an 1
16:57.24MaloeranThat's what I'm writing state sync'ing for in mind, intelligent use of the library
16:57.29``Erikfrom what I'm told
16:57.46MaloeranAh, sounds like my model prep threads :), I'll fix that though
16:57.50``Erik(and the hell project... 2 nodes costs more than 1)
16:57.55MaloeranAhahahaha
16:57.59``Erikexcept the app is almost totally distributable...
16:58.14MaloeranThat is so wrong
16:58.25``Erikthe "hard part" that he couldn't figure out was ordering the results for the output... and, y'know... dir... catch 'em out of order and bin them in a tree or something
16:59.08``Erikit's a sad state of affairs
16:59.13``Erikbut, y'know, fuck it, I'm on vacation
16:59.25MaloeranI have no idea what the horror project is actually meant to do, but it really has to be properly re-written, in real programming languages by competent people
17:01.27``Erikhm, doesn't even need to be properly re-written, or in a real programming language... I did a day hack on librt that was outrunning the original C version and the new java version by several orders of  magnitude...
17:01.36``Erikusing... librt... the slow csg one... :D
17:01.37MaloeranSeriously, I'm writing state synchronisation for intelligent use of the library, where the user will run "shaders" remotely and return packed high-level results ; this is not low-level distributed processing, where rays are traced remotely and results returned
17:01.46MaloeranThat would use soooo much bandwidth, it's unthinkable
17:02.32``ErikI'm thinking when I get back to the office, I'll have to write a lame 'workalike' to the retarded app and wire rf and adrt into it
17:02.48``Eriksomething I can give you so you can see what data needs moved around
17:03.37``Erik<-- doesn't go back until the 9th though
17:04.19MaloeranI see, okay. "Vacation" or "work" are pretty much the same to me
17:05.00``Erikused to be for me... *shrug*
17:05.19``ErikI went and got old... I have personal projects to do in my 'vacation' time :)
17:05.58MaloeranAh such pretexes, I'm sure it's just that the work projects aren't interesting enough :)
17:05.58``Erikgenerally not little "tweak it for a few % gain" stuff, but good old forward thinking stuff... gotta keep it very seperate, so if I decide to try to make some $'s, there's no issues ;)
17:06.45``Erikand, yeah, I steer towards very high level languages... harder to tweak, but hard problems become easy and impossible ones become tractable O:-D
17:07.28MaloeranPfft :), assembly gets so easy to debug with some practice *cough*
17:08.07MaloeranI look forward to writing assembly pipelines, eventually, I want my extra 20-30%
17:08.18``Erikyeah, but take a skilled person in asm vs a skilled person in, say, scheme or lithp... or smalltalk... or erlang... or ml...
17:08.30``Erikgive a task, see who has a working solution first
17:09.07``Erikif I can do in a few weeks what'd take a decade in asm, fuck, I'll do it in a few weeks... and the problems that interest me tend NOT to be cpu bound
17:09.09``Erik:)
17:09.35Maloeran:) Sure, I know
17:09.51``Erik<-- exploring huge scheduling stuff with hierarchal notions and dependancies
17:10.01MaloeranEven for "high-level" tasks, I hardly move away from C though, it's just too fluent in comparison to my Lisp
17:10.13``Erikand adequate graph reduction to keep the working set tiny
17:10.30``Erikobviously you know that fluency can only be gained and retained by exercise :)
17:10.58MaloeranI know :), but C has the upper hand in performance, and I'm not sure Lisp would be that much faster to write
17:11.10``Erikin that case, you should write fortran code
17:11.15MaloeranSince I already got so much C code I reuse for everyhing related to memory management, and so on
17:11.22``Erikheh
17:11.41``Eriklithp does its own memory management... your C is superfluous.
17:11.52MaloeranI would bet mine is faster
17:11.59``Erikmebbe
17:12.12``Eriklisp compilers tend to make pretty tight memory pools
17:12.38``ErikI wouldn't be surprised if your memory stuff was fairly similar to a lot of memory stuff in lisp, scheme, perl, etc
17:13.06``Erikyou might have an advantage by JUST pooling and not doing gc
17:13.07MaloeranPerhaps so, but the memory management part is solved either way
17:13.31``Erikwell, actually, you do reference counting
17:13.42``Erikso technically, you do have gc... you just blow up if you go cyclic
17:13.48``Erikblow up or permanently l eak
17:14.14MaloeranThat's a code flaw easily tracked and fixed
17:15.01MaloeranUnderstood, hence why C performs better and why I use it
17:15.13MaloeranIf we had Lisp chips, I might well switch over
17:15.24``Erikbe interesting to see a high level language designed by someone with intimate knowledge of modern hw
17:15.38``ErikC is very tightly bound to the pdp11 chip, dude
17:15.55MaloeranPersonally, I use whatever language maps to the underlying hardware well, delivering proper performance and control
17:16.11``Eriklisp was pretty rocking on certain pdp's where "complex" operations were single clock
17:16.18``Eriklike, car/cdr pairs
17:16.22``Erikjust a register access
17:16.27Maloerancar/cdr?
17:16.31``Erikcons? one load
17:16.44``Erikumm, yeah?
17:16.54``Erikuhhhhhhhh, "head" and "tail"?
17:17.08``Erik(car '(a b c))  ->  a
17:17.13MaloeranAh yes, as in Lisp
17:17.16``Erik(cdr '(a b c))  -> '(b c)
17:17.21MaloeranI was thinking of assembly instruction names
17:17.26``Erikthey, uh
17:17.27``Erikare
17:17.31``Erikassembly instruction names
17:17.32``Erik...
17:17.36``Erikon the pdp1
17:17.39Maloeran*nods* Not on the archs I know :)
17:17.41``Erikor was it 8
17:18.22MaloeranReally, your position is that Lisp would be great if the chips were meant for it, and I don't contest that
17:18.22``Erikbasically addressing like ah and al out of an ax, if you can stomach my archaic 16b 386 terminology
17:18.33MaloeranBut reality is a bit different these days...
17:18.42``Erikmy position is ALSO that C would be great if the chips were meant for it
17:18.47``Erikand I don't think the chips are meant for it
17:19.01MaloeranChips are a lot closer to C than Lisp, at least
17:19.16``ErikI'm not so sure about that
17:19.21MaloeranC with GCC's built-in pseudo-functions, C extensions and intrinsics is fairly decent
17:19.35``Eriknaive implementations of lisp and C, the c will probably come out a fair bit better
17:20.11``Erikbut it's a translation problem, one that is unfortunately being worked on by more C people than other language people
17:20.11MaloeranCompilers aren't known to ever do a great job, no matter the language
17:20.13``Erik*shrug*
17:20.34``Erikand cpu run time is kinda a fairly minor aspect of the cost of computing, anyways
17:21.11MaloeranThat's highly variable, but I always played with cpu intensive code, personally
17:21.28``Erikso you're in an odd niche :)
17:21.44MaloeranI'm fine with that :)
17:22.12``Erikmost code these days sits around with its thumb up its ass waiting for the stupid human to respond
17:22.27``Erikand another large bulk of code is ran very infrequently, maybe once ever...
17:22.53``Erikspending developer time doing petty bookkeeping with C or asm is... illogical in those situations
17:23.03MaloeranAgreed, of course
17:23.35``Erikuse something that gets a working product to the machine as quickly as possible... unfortunately, too many people lock themselves into a certain tract of programming and don't explore adequately...
17:24.03``Eriktoo many java programmers don't know jack shit about C, so they don't understand how to use the machine in funny ways to make things easy and simple
17:24.10MaloeranI'm interested by computers for doing intense processing for simulations or other number crunching, pretty bookkeeping does not interest me the slightest
17:24.37``Erikand too many C programmers never gain a strong fluency in something like lithp, so they never understand the fu of real macros or full number towers
17:25.12``Erikdude, you write a memory mgmt library... you're trying to work to abstract the petty bookkeeping
17:25.13``Erik:)
17:25.22MaloeranThis elegance can get in the way of efficiency too
17:25.26``Erikand walking right into greenspuns 10th law in the process
17:25.32``Erik*shrug*
17:25.47``ErikI'd rather write a program really quickly in a high level language...
17:25.55``Erikfigure out how I can make the algorithms better to make it faster
17:26.05``Erikand THEN start reducing the 'expensive' parts to lower languages
17:26.11``Eriklike portabe pdp assembly, er, uh, I mean, C
17:26.11MaloeranIt isn't always about processor time efficiency, there are Java programs eating gigabytes of ram
17:26.23``Erikheh, true... that's just... wrong
17:26.38``Erikjava is an excellent example of how to do everything wrong
17:26.45MaloeranEheh, exactly
17:26.46``Erikalmost as bad as c#
17:27.43``Erik<-- notes that lisp lived in a land where 4k of ram was considered huge, with heavy computation theory background... calling java up as a counter argument is just a low blow and wrong
17:28.10MaloeranAhah
17:28.36``Erik:)
17:28.56MaloeranEw.. Yes I noticed that. You'll find me weird, but I'm not comfortable with any language where I can't be sure what assembly the compiler will spit out
17:29.26MaloeranI like writing C, look at any chunk of assembly and know exactly where I am in the software
17:29.37``Erikyou can see the output of lithp in asm or machine code if you want
17:29.51MaloeranSure, I don't think I'm neglecting algorithmic optimisations
17:29.54``Eriklithp is primarily a compiled language, if all else fails, hit it with a decompiler
17:30.05``Erikand I use some scheme compilers that output C
17:30.06``Erik*shrug*
17:30.14``Erikdon't confuse the language with the evaluation mechanism :D
17:31.07``Erik(of course, chicken's C output is eye bleeding horrible, heh... good&naive... gcc doesn't seem too upset about it, though)
17:32.07MaloeranEh now, the output of properly written C isn't that bad :)
17:32.37MaloeranCompilers remain stupid, but considering the amount of work that has been put in GCC, I don't expect other non-gcc languages to perform better
17:33.19``Erikheh, but I could put a trivial amount of effort into an assembler
17:33.28``Erikand it could perform better, provided a competent assembly programmer
17:33.30``Erik:)
17:33.47``Erikand I still view assembyl as fairly compiled, I used to do mnems on the c64 o.O
17:34.23MaloeranIndeed, but Lisp is farther than C from assembly considering the current hardware ; more work for the compiler = poorer code
17:34.37``ErikI don't know about that
17:35.03MaloeranSo much work put in GCC, yet it just seems to stupid sometimes... I really have the impression I could write better
17:35.17MaloeranIt isnt the optimisation that bothers me, it's all the higher-level parsing and stuff
17:35.38Maloeranso* stupid
17:35.42``ErikI'm not big on common lisp... but lisp 1.5 has almost every single language component being a single fast opcode, I think
17:36.03``Erikscheme has a good deal of that... but the way it's all written these days... :/
17:36.29``Erika compiler to bytecode and a biteocde interpreter... written in C... usually not very well..
17:36.36``Erikwhich doesn't map cleanly to the machine
17:36.58``Erikmebbe if I get time, I'll try to write a tight scheme->ml compiler for amd64 or something :)
17:37.07``Erikml as in machine language, not sml or ocaml
17:37.33MaloeranI'm secretly pleased that processor speeds are hitting a ceiling, perhaps people will rediscovere the value of efficient languages
17:37.40Maloeranrediscover*
17:38.11``Eriknah, the notion of vectorization is coming back into fad...
17:38.17``Erikcan't make 'em faster, so mkae more of 'em...
17:38.25``Erikpentium6 now with 1024 cores!
17:38.38MaloeranThere's a big problem with that : it doesn't scale
17:38.49``Erikvector computers in the 70's could do 4x4 matrix mults in one clock :/
17:39.06MaloeranThe more cores you have, the more in-cache synchronisation you require, it gets messy
17:39.14``Erikit doesn't scale because: hw sucks. and programmers suck.
17:39.14``Erik:)
17:39.26MaloeranYes, instruction-level vectorization is great, but that's fairly low-level
17:39.37MaloeranHence the added value to all low-level languages
17:39.53``Erikonly cuz the compiler writers... well... suck :D
17:40.10MaloeranPfft, C has got all I need on that aspect :)
17:40.55MaloeranOur current x86/amd64 architectures are soo not meant to scale by adding new cores/processors
17:41.25``Erikdefinitely not
17:41.54``ErikI d'no much about amd64, but the x86 is a grotesque pile of shit with hacks built on it, shoulda died in the 70's
17:42.07MaloeranWhich isn't a bad thing : we will be forced to leave x86 behind definitely, I hope!
17:42.33``Erikppc even has cruft and lameness built on, but it's *SO* much nicer
17:42.46MaloeranI want my arrays of 256 processors at 400mhz with a proper architecture to scale
17:43.05``ErikI enjoyed the 6510 monitor/mnems... hated 386 asm... but really really liked r2k asm
17:43.25``Erik'proper arch' like numa?
17:43.33``Erikhypercube?
17:43.39``Erikor something 'new'?
17:43.48MaloeranNuma works somewhat, but I don't think it scales too well at a point
17:43.49``Eriksmp seems awful coarse
17:44.09``Erikand if we have a metric assload of cores, why not go assymetric?
17:44.14MaloeranFor each processor, the cache synchronisation circuitry keeps growing with the total count of processors
17:44.23MaloeranExactly
17:44.27``Erikyeah, I dedicated one of my 128 procs to manage the data motion... but... y'know? so what?
17:45.25MaloeranPersonally, I would be an advocate of software-based memory and cache synchronisation
17:45.53MaloeranLet the programmer, the software manage memory ; it's too much complex circuitry for the hardware, it can't scale
17:46.00``ErikI d'no.. hw mmu's made vm pracical
17:46.03``Erikpractical
17:46.31``Erikand in the 60's, ibm's cpu's were microcode vm beasties, and amdhal made custom chips that smoked teh ibm things bigtime
17:47.00``Erik(and yes. I really really dig computer history. A lot. I don't think you can really move forward until you REALLY understand the past.)
17:47.45MaloeranI agree with MMU, I'm just saying the software should explicitgely do "put X into that large shared memory bank so other processors will access it"
17:48.03MaloeranRather than have the other processors ask "Hey, has anyone got that in their cache? Is that copy up-to-date?"
17:48.16Maloeranexplicitely*
17:48.52MaloeranEach processor with its own memory, one or several shared memory banks, perhaps different levels
17:49.40MaloeranSoftware would have to be written differently in all aspects related to memory management, but that would scale as well as it can get
17:59.26MaloeranDumb example : 256 processors, each got its memory bank X, each group of 16 processors has a shared bank Y, and a bank Z on top of all Y. All processors can DMA to/from the shared memory banks asynchroneously
18:03.13``Erikhrm, y and z seem... silly... ever built hw?
18:04.41MaloeranHow else would you scale shared memory?
18:05.10``Erik(actually,if you look at an mmu on an smp system... each alu has its cache... if the data it needs isn't in its cache... it asks the next level... whihc, y'know, migh be l2 or might be main memory... or might by disk drive... so I guess it already does that, heh)
18:05.18``Erikbut every time you write to memory
18:05.23``Erikit has to tell the l1
18:05.25``Erikand then the l2
18:05.28``Erikand then main memory
18:05.33``Erikuntil there's a shared universal vm
18:05.58MaloeranBut what if the up-to-date cache line isn't in main memory but in another processor cache?
18:06.06``Erikum
18:06.07MaloeranThat's a big issue on the non-scalability
18:06.10``Erikif...
18:06.13``Erikyou write... memory...
18:06.19``Erikit has to... IMMEDIATELY to all the way out
18:06.36``Erikand the 'all the way out' (universal vm) cant' have other things dicking with it at the time
18:07.00``Erikwhich is why you need a machine with multiple cores, so you can feel the pain firsthand :D
18:07.26MaloeranGot 2 cores with shared cache, eh well. I'll get something soon
18:07.53``Erikit'd be rare that two cores with shared cache stomp on eachother TOO much
18:07.57MaloeranTrying to get SURVICE to switch over to direct deposit to avoid the 1 month delay for U.S. check deposit, then I could get it in a few days
18:08.20``Eriksomething with multiple cores... something SLOW with multiple cores would help exasperate the issue
18:08.28MaloeranThey still have to ensure coherency, due to the hardware rather than software synchronisation
18:08.50``Erikmmu has such a notion :)
18:08.56``Erikit's the gatekeeper of memory
18:08.56MaloeranIf the hardware was to expect the software to explicitely state when something must imperatively be shared, we wouldn't have that problem
18:10.05MaloeranAnd a big memory bank with too many cores playing in it can't please any memory controller
18:10.20MaloeranHence the idea of a bank per processor, plus shared banks
18:11.48MaloeranHardware synchronisation makes it easy for the programmers, but it isn't friendly to hardware scalability at all
18:13.11``Erikhw isn't magic, dude.. fo rthe most part, it just does what the os says
18:13.46MaloeranHardware synchronisation between cpu caches isn't up to the OS
18:13.54``ErikI mean, yeah, throw a lock, it goes down to the mmu
18:13.57``Erikand it's reserved
18:14.06``Erikuhmmm, no, it's facilitated by the os
18:14.28``Erikit's up to the threading capability... pthreads in your case :)
18:14.46``Erikif it was all up tto the hw, you'd never have locking issues or funky multi-threading bugs
18:15.02``Erikthrow the mmu lock by grabbing a mutex or something
18:15.08``Erikdick with the memory
18:15.30``Erikreads might be short, but iirc, writes are long
18:16.04``Erikhrm
18:16.12``ErikI'd have to re-read the material to remember
18:17.08``Erikbeen too long :)
18:17.14MaloeranPerhaps so should I, but from my current knowledge, the current cache synchronisation between processors is a huge problem for scalability
18:19.01MaloeranThe more total processors and memory banks you have in a Numa design, the more hypertransport links _each_ processor requires
18:19.15``Erikok, hypertransport is newer
18:19.36``Erikbut in old smp, the main memory was the primary information bridge... (the universal vm, actually... might be in swap)
18:20.05``Erikso when you write, it has to fall all the way through to main memory...
18:20.15``Erikhrm
18:20.18``Eriknow I'm confusing myself
18:20.19``Eriko.O
18:21.53MaloeranWe should write some raytracing hardware to clear things up, and accidentally design the future's memory model
18:22.26``Erikhrm
18:22.36``Erikingo et al may've beaten you to that
18:22.37``Erik:)
18:23.11``Erikdr ingo wald... has a co iirc
18:23.39``Erikopenrt
18:23.49MaloeranAh, doesn't mean we can't do better :)
18:24.08``Erikheh
18:24.14``Erikone thing I learned a while back
18:24.20``Erikther'es always someone there to do better
18:25.06MaloeranIs that an excuse not to do anythingy? :)
18:25.11Maloerananything, rather
18:25.40``Erikof course not
18:25.52``Erikit's a reason to always do the best you can quickly, and always look for new horizons
18:26.06``Erikstagnation will finish you :)
18:26.17``Erikalways strive to learn more, do more, be more...
18:26.17``Erik:)
18:27.19MaloeranOr just strive to enjoy life, hoping these will naturally come as side-effects
18:27.39``Erikperhaps
18:27.40``Erikheh
18:27.47``Erikhonestly, that may be the path I'm more o n
18:27.50``Erikmore on
18:27.53``Erik<-- moron o.O
18:28.14``Erikor perhaps my goals are slightly less grandiose
18:30.04MaloeranTo me, raytracing hardware would be really fun and new, any other objectives are a pretext
18:30.33MaloeranPretexes that management might prefer to "It looks fun!"
18:31.39MaloeranPlus, we would have abundant time to argue about scalable memory models
19:08.48TwingyI want an Official Red Ryder Carbine-Action Two-Hundred-Shot Range Model Air Rifle!
19:52.57*** join/#brlcad DanielFalck (n=dan@pool-71-111-98-172.ptldor.dsl-w.verizon.net)
23:25.19MaloeranI think it's the first time I can ride a bicycle wearing just a shirt to attend christmas social gatherings
Jeff Waugh - find it at freshmeat.net! Modified by Tim Riker to work with blootbot logs, split per channel, etc. irclog2html for #brlcad on 20061226

irclog2html for #brlcad on 20061226

03:07.52Twingys/humans/carbon based life forms?
06:19.31*** join/#brlcad Twingy (n=justin@74.92.144.217) [NETSPLIT VICTIM]
14:02.43``Erikheh
16:09.35*** join/#brlcad SWPadnos (n=Me@dsl245.esjtvtli.sover.net)
17:27.16TwingyRobotic Deer to Fight Illegal Hunting
17:27.24Twingy...
17:32.56``Erikdoes it shoot back?
17:33.19``Erikcuz that'd be kinda gnarly
17:33.31``Erikheh, milton would come into work all bandaged up :D
17:34.02MaloeranAlso disturbing : http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/south_asia/6209613.stm
17:35.22``Erikheh
17:37.50MaloeranI'm trying to understand how the thing can be that slow, getting there slowly
17:37.53``Erikhahahahaha
17:38.12``Erikstarting to understand the stupid at the lab? :D
17:38.31MaloeranI guess you could put it that way :)
17:38.35``Erikcall stacks so deep, they might as well be bottomless, repacking of data for shits and giggles, ...
17:38.50MaloeranAnd constant memory allocation/freeing... to shoot a single ray!
17:39.09MaloeranMemory allocation and free()ing just for _one_ ray!
17:39.22``Erikuh huh
17:39.29``Erikmemory pools? what are those?
17:39.43``Erikoh, but hell project is ALL about resource pools, the opposite extreme
17:39.50MaloeranAhah
17:40.06``Erikwant to send data? don't keep your own socket... get one from the pool! oh, and when you've sent your FUCKING FOUR BYTES, put it back in the pool!
17:40.44MaloeranAh, cool
17:41.24``ErikI'll be, uh, very not here for the next week
17:41.25``Erik:)
17:41.42MaloeranGirlfriend?
17:41.47``Erikmmhmm
17:42.18brlcaderm
17:42.25brlcadlibrt doesn't repack data
17:42.44``Erikheh
17:42.45``Eriks2 sure does
17:42.46brlcadmaybe some specific app foo does
17:42.53brlcads2 does
17:43.26brlcadcomparing what s2 does to an optimized ray-tracer isn't even apples to oranges
17:43.38``Erikif it were built as a 'shader' and ran inside of a brlcad app, it'd be pretty damn fast, evne on librt
17:43.58``Erikrf has to feed s2 :( that's how we got wendy to sign off on it, iirc
17:44.10MaloeranWhat is s2?
17:44.29``Erikthe old important app, the one the hell project is supposed to replace
17:44.37brlcadsure it'll eventually feed it, so yeah most of the performance benefit is going to get slaughtered
17:44.48brlcadbut it'll still be an improvement for many cases
17:45.04MaloeranAny hope of just fixing/rewriting that s2 thing?
17:45.37``Eriknot really... twingy rewrote the build system to be MUCH better, and they didn't understand it, so they didn't accept it
17:45.42brlcadMaloeran: it's really not that simple -- there are a couple decades of feature-packing in there that has to be replicated
17:46.00brlcadany rewrite, even the one being attempted, can't replace that functionality in any time reasonbly soon
17:46.15brlcadakin to rewriting any major code base
17:46.24``Erikthey also fought plugging adrt into it tooth and nail... like, they compiled adrt with floats, librt with doubles, and refused to acceptt adrt because the output numbers weren't bit identical... durrrr
17:46.26brlcadit's rather naive to think it just takes a simple rewrite
17:47.09``Erikdude, I think 90% of that project is unnecessary fluff, crap left over from dirty hacks that just dont' get used... based on mrb output and talking to analysts, it might really be a 'simple rewrite' :(
17:47.10MaloeranI see, I just have no idea what s2 or the hell project exist for
17:48.10brlcad``Erik: in all fairness, though, all of the differences WEREN'T just float/double fuzz -- the behavior hadn't been verified and a couple real issues were found (i.e. honest differences in behavior)
17:48.25``Erikok, the float vs double one really REALLY got under my skin
17:48.29brlcadthat kind of stuff just can't happen for that code
17:48.39MaloeranYou will find serious differences in behavior and results with rayforce too
17:48.41``Erikbecause she (km) said that the problem 'disappeared' when she compiled adrt with double
17:49.01brlcadthat was one case, there were other issues
17:49.07``Erikbut she HAD to to hunt down the cause for the difference! it was a whole .001 mm!
17:49.15``Erik<-- strusfrated with some of their bs :)
17:49.18brlcadsome were issues just being masked that were different behaviors
17:49.56brlcadMaloeran: to be expected to various degrees -- but they have to be explainable other than hand waving
17:50.05``Erikobviously, the values wont' be the exact same, they cope with things differently... I'm just irked because in the grand scheme of things, it doesn't matter...
17:50.14brlcadat least if the differences are significant
17:50.36``ErikI mean, it's all grotesque punting, the just cling to regression numbers because they don't understand the algorithms or reasoning
17:50.41``Erikgrar.
17:50.50Maloeranbrlcad: Right, but a part of that is based on the ray cutting into segments, and the different intersection code with triangles ; you lose a bit of precision on the way
17:51.03brlcadhe was done with adrt, at that time it really was a lot of hand waving going on, and they were understandably not satisfied imho
17:51.08MaloeranThe differences should just be properly handled for them not to matter
17:51.13``Erikand ch seems like the only one with his feet under him... km a tiny bit, but *sigh*... and they gave them that poor java coder hehehe
17:51.48``Erik<-- not impressed with that crew :/
17:51.59``Erikalso, I'm a strusfrated bitter person for anything up that alley :)
17:52.22brlcadthere's plenty to complain about with respect to s2, but their demands of having to validate any change are a good one in general -- even if they do or don't understand what's going on
17:52.47``Eriktheir stance of not ACCEPTING any change, whether or not it's valid or makes sense, isn't excusable
17:53.07brlcadMaloeran: most of the "significant" differences aren't just precision in itself, though perhaps provoked by precision
17:53.12brlcadedge conditions
17:53.18brlcaddo you go left or right
17:53.34MaloeranIndeed, brlcad
17:53.35brlcadyou might arbitrarily (albeit consistently "go right", per se)
17:53.43``Eriklike the air overlap swapping from the change jra made in the scenegraph
17:54.16``Erikthey refused a code improvement due to a 'broken' model... :) irritating
17:54.26brlcad``Erik: true but then they never were shown a validation that could be accepted in that instance
17:54.46``Erikthe breakage in their test was pointed out
17:55.11``Erik<-- likes regression testing and consistancy in results... but consistantly wrong results are still wrong :(
17:55.32brlcaddude, you're pulling out one instance.. there were like a half dozen different issues
17:55.57``Erik*shrug* what can I say? I'm bitter and irate and on a tyrade :)
17:56.16brlcada couple were breakage in their code, or at least bad assumptions, others were fuzz, a couple others were logic differences
17:56.16``Erikor tirade
17:56.18``Erikyour choihce
17:56.38``Erik<-- thinks they're too anal and lb is too lenient o.O
17:57.06brlcadthe latter were the ones that mattered that would have otherwise gone unnoticed, even if they did amount to like a couple lines of code
17:57.50``Erik(also, I have a low opinion of the theory and information that program is built on... stinky of hackiness to me)
17:58.13brlcadMaloeran: the overall "concept" isn't hard at all, especially from a code perspective -- it's an approximated physics simulation
17:58.46brlcadthe code is also probably the least significant aspect of the purpose for it's existance
17:59.00``Erikmal: http://www.bahdayton.com/SURVIAC/archive/surviac_bulletin/bulletin_9501/bull_9501.html#MUVES
17:59.17MaloeranFor vulnerability analysis?
17:59.23MaloeranAh, right
17:59.28brlcadfor a variety of analysis purposes
18:00.20MaloeranQuote : "MUVES employs the latest software technologies both in design and implementation to optimize useability, [...]" Mmhmm :)
18:00.31``Erikit's old code
18:01.10brlcadhttp://stinet.dtic.mil/oai/oai?&verb=getRecord&metadataPrefix=html&identifier=ADA245322
18:02.08brlcadMaloeran: quoted from probably before you were born
18:02.11``Erikhuh, with a few authors I recognize, go figure
18:02.14brlcadwhen it was very much probably true
18:02.46brlcadit's a software implementation of a simulation that was actually carried out by hand for decades before it
18:03.08brlcadwhere it fails isn't really in terms of performance
18:03.22brlcador utility -- it certainly does the job it was designed to do
18:03.26``Erika step int eh right direction... but the stepping stopped, and they got stuck :(
18:03.46``Erikimho
18:03.53MaloeranWell, it's C and Unix, they got that right
18:04.02brlcadit fails in terms of usability and production polish/use -- the 80% of code in a project that has nothing to do with performance
18:04.24``Erikok, I'm done ranting and being a little bitch :) imma go slap my shoes on and head to bwi... catch ya'll later :)
18:04.44MaloeranHave fun!
18:04.48brlcadcheers
18:05.49brlcadmuch in the same way mged fails to provide an useful interface to new users -- yet most of the "geometry kernel" logic that is required by any solid modeling system is there underneath
18:06.19brlcads2 users scream for a new interface, the usability is painful
18:07.21MaloeranI see, interesting. So performance isn't quite the main issue at this point
18:07.52brlcadit's one of many issues, but only the biggest from a production standpoint -- not from the "big picture"
18:09.24brlcadit's like saying I need to get from here to montreal, and I have my bike .. and even though I have a really good bike, it can still only go so fast
18:09.36brlcadso you're working on a fancy jet engine to propel the bike faster
18:10.15brlcadwhen in the big picture.. there are other problems (like others that need to get to montreal that don't know how to ride a bicycle, or are disabled, etc)
18:10.55MaloeranGood metaphor :). There's just the problem of focusing so much on the raytracer performance, if 95% of the processing time is spent in the "shaders"
18:11.33brlcadmost problems can be simplified down to bicycles and cars :)
18:12.42brlcad95% isn't representative
18:13.45brlcadit's very model and analysis dependent -- some are really highly ray-trace bound, others are stuck in shader-land
18:15.08MaloeranI guess so. Simple flat rendering "shaders" consume 40% of the processing time here, the actual ray-tracing is... cheap
18:15.34brlcadon average, I think it's pretty conservative estimate to say more than 50% .. more close to 80-90 probably on average
18:16.25brlcadyeah, that is one thing that rayforce definitely has over librt -- librt hooks into liboptical for shading, and that isn't nearly as optimized
18:17.43brlcadit was written to be run-time flexible, pluggable instead, which greatly impacts the design and performance
18:18.32MaloeranNot that much if rays are processed into large batches, but... yes, flexibility and processing of one ray at a time is just awful
18:19.14brlcadit would be interesting to see what rayforce's single-ray cost is post-prep
18:19.31MaloeranHorrible. It's not designed for that
18:19.32brlcadsince that will be more in line with what would be expected from s2
18:19.48brlcadhorrible to you.. but still perhaps a vast boost overal
18:20.03brlcadperhaps not, just would be interesting
18:20.06MaloeranYou have to set up a buffer, set the buffer environment variables to it builds the proper pipeline optimized for the settings, queue the job, have a thread acquire and run it... for a single ray?
18:20.33MaloeranIt could be made faster, but it isn't really designed for that
18:20.43brlcadpost-prep -- some of that could be construed as part of the prep
18:22.04MaloeranReally, it's like a C++ graphical library making a overly complex class "pixel", you don't want to process one ray at a time :)
18:22.51brlcadsounds like you're describing X ;)
18:23.29MaloeranEheh, close enough yes
18:25.01brlcadit might be too much overhead, but it also might still be quite an improvement .. and is in line with how an analysis currently progresses
18:25.41brlcadi mean there are other considerations that become possible -- shooting in packets, faster optical/pictures, finer resolution at no additional expense
18:26.14MaloeranDo you really need to trace individual rays?
18:26.31brlcadthe analysis codes, though, generally repeatedly ask the question "what objects are along this path"
18:27.28brlcadmillions of times.. and sometimes the paths coincide, sometimes they do not at all -- more like solving the ray-tracing question for secondary rays only
18:27.54MaloeranBatches of secondary, incoherent rays are fine too
18:28.16MaloeranIf single rays really are required, I guess I should add an "immediate mode" or so, without job/thread management, where the calling thread blocks and receives raw results
18:30.34brlcadthis same issue came up with adrt, and of course it's even more significant for rayforce .. but what really makes sense as a first step is to drop it in as the implementation behind librt's ray api
18:31.08brlcadwhich means basically two function calls -- a scene prep routine, and a ray shooter routine
18:31.18brlcadthe latter being called over and over
18:31.58MaloeranWould such calls be made from numerous threads?
18:32.04brlcadadrt is going to be tested in this fashion now that an initial integration is up and running
18:32.45brlcadyes, numerous threads and/or procs depending on the platform
18:33.53MaloeranI don't like the idea design-wise, but I guess it's the easiest first step
18:34.26brlcadfor librt, those two actual calls are rt_prep_parallel() and rt_shootray() for most applications, including for s2
18:34.59MaloeranYes I saw, the rayforce API is a bit more complex
18:35.40brlcadthe idea would be to detect in rt_prep_parallel if the model being prep'd is triangles, to prep using adrt and/or later using rayforce.. then during rt_shootray() calls, to invoke the other engine instead of librt for those rays
18:35.47brlcadat least as an initial pass
18:36.53brlcadthat way, there are dozens of projects and applications that could get any performance benefits "for free" without requiring a rewrite (or even a recompile in some instances)
18:37.01MaloeranDoes rt_shootray() block or it queues a callback?
18:37.07brlcadheh
18:37.25brlcadblocks
18:37.42MaloeranSo there's no way to just fill up buffers to process rays properly
18:38.05brlcadthought about adding a non-blocking callback version, but that gets back to the same problem of rewriting all the user codes
18:38.20brlcadand if/when they're willing to go that far.. there may be better options
18:38.54MaloeranUsing the rayforce native interface? :) It's generic, flexible, meant to be scalable
18:39.31MaloeranIt was written with the possibility in mind that any other raytracer could easily plug itself behind the API
18:39.34brlcadapparently not flexible enough to have a single prep and single shotline inquiry interface? :)
18:39.57MaloeranCorrect, that's just gross and inefficient :)
18:40.18brlcadand an excuse -- it's about as simple an interface as possible
18:40.20MaloeranIt could be made, it just removes much of the acceleration potential that could go on behind the API
18:40.44MaloeranMay it be efficient packet processing, SIMD processing, a hardware solution
18:41.22MaloeranThe rayforce API can accomodate about any kind of underlying raytracing engine, hardware of FPGA included
18:41.26Maloeranor* FPGA
18:41.30*** join/#brlcad docelic (n=docelic@212.91.114.94)
18:42.31brlcadyeah, and those are certainly taking off like hotcakes.. :)
18:42.54MaloeranOne day, perhaps, and that implies that the API will still be usable at that point :)
18:42.58brlcadthat's great, but for the more immediate.. it really will probably boil down to just two or three levels of integration
18:43.37MaloeranI realize that but I must say I prefer properly designed APIs, seeing farther than the immediate needs
18:43.53brlcadfirst mimicking the api and seeing what boosts can be gained, then looking at what user-app changes would be required to get the biggest boost whether it be queuing rays or callbacks or what have you
18:44.25brlcad"immediate" in this context is the next two years or so
18:45.24MaloeranThere's no way to do any decent SSE with single rays by the way, performance would be cut by a factor of 2-10 by design
18:46.02brlcad"properly designed APIs" can all mean drasticly different things -- librt's API is entirely proper given the purpose
18:46.40MaloeranIt definitely wasn't designed to adopt different raytracing engines, interfaces or solutions
18:46.41brlcaddepends on the user, the hardware, the purpose, etc
18:47.05MaloeranThere's no way to use raytracing hardware with a blocking rt_shootray() for example
18:47.38brlcadsure, that was never a purpose of the library -- it was specifically written to be hardware agnostic
18:48.13brlcadhardware has changed a half dozen times since it was started... had the best "fad" of that day been used, librt would have been obsolete a decade ago
18:48.56brlcadand by obsolete, i mean written in a manner where it *could not* function on current hardware
18:49.34brlcadas it is, it still runs on just about anything, whether it's got acceleration hardware or not, special computation units etc
18:49.37MaloeranI don't mean it should be tailored to any specific hardware, I mean it should be both flexible and efficient, not minimalistic
18:49.51MaloeranOpenGL was designed in a flexible and decent manner, and it remained flexible and efficient for decades
18:50.20brlcadheh, you keep forgetting/ignoring the purpose though?
18:50.39brlcadfor opengl's purpose, it was flexible and "decent" as you call it, but entirely useless for other domains
18:50.49MaloeranWell, the librt minimalistic interface causes problems today
18:52.28brlcadtechnically only the rt_shootray() interface has that limitation
18:52.37brlcadlibrt doesn't boil down to just those two calls
18:53.01brlcadthey are just the most prevalently used, *because* they are so simple to use
18:53.13brlcadthere are routines for shooting bundles of rays in the library
18:53.21brlcadnobody uses them
18:53.22MaloeranThe problem isn't with librt really, but with the interface ; the interface that all the software now uses
18:53.27MaloeranOh :)
18:56.19MaloeranI guess there wasn't much to gain with bundles of rays with librt
18:56.57brlcadit gets back to what I started off by saying -- you can't just suddenly change an API out from under dozens/hundreds of projects when you have faithful users without risking loosing your users -- even if the benefits "seem" sufficient
18:57.12brlcadactually, there was a lot to be gained -- that's why it was implemented
18:57.39brlcadgetting performance boosts by bundling data accesses together is by far nothing new -- heck cray had a monopoly on that two decades ago
18:59.16MaloeranAnd people haven't updated the software to use the more efficient calls, I see
19:00.19brlcadnot in the least
19:01.00brlcadactually writing and even using production-use software is usually not the biggest business expense
19:01.40brlcadmanaging that software, training users, documenting everything, managing the workflow process -- that all takes considerably more time
19:03.13brlcadso while there's an interface that is faster -- the investment is already complete, someone will have to take several weeks to review the new interface, integrate/code to it, validate it, test it, document the change, share that knowledge with others on the team(s)
19:04.36MaloeranSo a programmer can't just switch the code to the better interface on an evening? :) Such inefficiency
19:04.37brlcadso the motivation to make the change, one that has NOT been validated in particular, is a risk and the benefit generally has to be distinctly clear and outweigh the other costs involved in making the change
19:05.00brlcadof course they can't
19:05.27brlcadwell they can to the code, but not to the application that is in production use
19:05.53brlcadsomeone(tm) has to make sure it actually works .. and what happens when there's a problem, when someone does make a mistake?
19:06.12brlcadand mistakes DO happen.. they happen a damn lot, especially with programmers
19:07.06MaloeranThe coding process sounds awfully slow and restricted in such a controlled environment
19:08.41brlcadin some instances it is, some it isn't.. depends on the impact and purpose
19:09.08brlcadshotline analysis impacts lives, people do live and die by the results
19:10.15brlcadthat's why just saying "oh yeah, it's faster" is a useless statement when there is a difference in a given case that can't be exactly explained
19:10.17MaloeranRight, that isn't some software you can send patches to users later on
19:10.58brlcadthe difference between a bug and floating point fuzz, for example, could be just one character .. and both giving the same result 99.99% of the time
19:11.58brlcaddue diligence requires getting down to the actual science, explaining the difference and verifying that it's not a bug for example or not a difference to worry about is paramount
19:13.01brlcadmost programmers are incredibly lazy, hand-waving excuses are usually very "bad" even if the "gut feeling" is sane
19:14.39MaloeranWell, I can already say that you'll find major differences between rayforce and adrt results. Just between two different graph builds, results differ
19:15.07brlcadyep, to be expected
19:16.06brlcadwhether the results are significant depends on a lot of factors, and will be part of the future integration/validation part
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20:42.59MaloeranStrange, I'm not finding any header for GCC's __builtin_bswap32 and __builtin_bswap64, to avoid implicit declarations
Jeff Waugh - find it at freshmeat.net! Modified by Tim Riker to work with blootbot logs, split per channel, etc. irclog2html for #brlcad on 20061227

irclog2html for #brlcad on 20061227

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Jeff Waugh - find it at freshmeat.net! Modified by Tim Riker to work with blootbot logs, split per channel, etc. irclog2html for #brlcad on 20061228

irclog2html for #brlcad on 20061228

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18:06.24cadguyAnyone remember how to get GCC to dump defined symbols?
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18:33.23MaloeranAll symbols for compilation? Or perhaps nm would do?
18:33.42cadguyAll symbols that are defined.
18:35.06MaloeranWithin any scope, including static functions and local variables? nm would print all exported, linked, etc. symbols
18:35.50cadguyAh, I'm looking for macro definitions.  Eg: __i686__ etc.
18:36.23MaloeranOh that. gcc -E -dM - < /dev/null
18:38.17cadguythx. Can never remember that when I need it.  *sigh*
18:38.38MaloeranEheh, neither do I, it's noted in a text file
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Jeff Waugh - find it at freshmeat.net! Modified by Tim Riker to work with blootbot logs, split per channel, etc. irclog2html for #brlcad on 20061229

irclog2html for #brlcad on 20061229

01:50.47*** join/#brlcad Chantal (n=Chantal@58.170.167.163)
01:51.12ChantalDoes anyone know how to use AutoCAD?  I need to turn a couple of lines into a polyline, ie the opposite of explode
01:54.09brlcadChantal: this channel is for BRL-CAD, not AutoCAD ;)
01:54.40ChantalI know :(  I can't find an autocad channel
01:54.49Chantalbye
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01:55.08brlcad~google opposite of explode autocad
01:55.32brlcadfirst result.. "create a block"
01:55.39brlcad~stfw
01:55.43iboti guess stfw is Search The F*cking Web.  See http://justf*ckinggoogleit.com/
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04:26.03IriX64works ... cheerzzzzz
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05:12.38CIA-5BRL-CAD: 03lbutler * 10brlcad/include/ (bu.h machine.h raytrace.h):
05:12.39CIA-5BRL-CAD: raytrace and bu got comment updates
05:12.39CIA-5BRL-CAD: machine.h now supports dual cpu's on Intel based Mac machines
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16:29.39dtidrowhttp://home.tiscali.nl/annejan/swf/timeline.swf - 'slide rule' clock  :-)
16:30.35clock_that's funny :)
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17:02.39brlcadnifty
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19:39.27IriX64thanks for letting me in :)
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Jeff Waugh - find it at freshmeat.net! Modified by Tim Riker to work with blootbot logs, split per channel, etc. irclog2html for #brlcad on 20061230

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Jeff Waugh - find it at freshmeat.net! Modified by Tim Riker to work with blootbot logs, split per channel, etc. irclog2html for #brlcad on 20061231

irclog2html for #brlcad on 20061231

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Jeff Waugh - find it at freshmeat.net! Modified by Tim Riker to work with blootbot logs, split per channel, etc.