| 02:59.22 | pra5ad | happy new year |
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| 16:17.50 | ``Erik | *yawn* |
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| 23:17.01 | *** topic/#brlcad is http://brlcad.org/ || BRL-CAD is now Free Software! || 7.6.6 to be released by the 15th! | |
| 23:18.01 | *** join/#brlcad ibot (i=ibot@pdpc/supporter/active/TimRiker/bot/apt) | |
| 23:18.01 | *** topic/#brlcad is http://brlcad.org/ || BRL-CAD is now Free Software! || 7.6.6 to be released by the 15th! | |
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| 03:45.54 | pra5ad | pi is one weird movie |
| 06:19.26 | brlcad | heh |
| 06:19.46 | brlcad | a bit artsy but fun |
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| 08:21.42 | ``Erik | <PROTECTED> |
| 10:34.44 | pra5ad | *yawn* |
| 16:45.30 | ``Erik | I concur |
| 18:17.16 | CIA-5 | BRL-CAD: 03erikgreenwald * 10brlcad/configure.ac: add searches for itcl32 and itk32, as FreeBSD removes the dot |
| 19:59.11 | clock_ | brlcad: hi |
| 19:59.34 | brlcad | howdy clock_ |
| 20:00.16 | clock_ | friday I smashed my head into ground on snowboard :D |
| 20:01.05 | brlcad | excellent |
| 20:01.20 | clock_ | snowboarding is a sport very demanding on brain :) |
| 20:02.12 | brlcad | heh |
| 20:15.18 | ``Erik | iwidgets scan sucks ass |
| 20:16.19 | brlcad | scan? |
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| 20:24.26 | brlcad | if you mean the iwidgets test, it was written but never tested |
| 20:28.20 | ``Erik | yeah, heh |
| 20:29.53 | brlcad | and the same will happen for the blt and tkImg tests ;) |
| 20:32.26 | ``Erik | 'sok, I'm not going that far |
| 20:32.44 | ``Erik | trying to get system itcl/itk working, was hoping to get iwidgets, too, but *shrug* I'm too lazy right now |
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| 21:06.35 | pier | Hi brlcad |
| 21:30.57 | brlcad | howdy |
| 21:47.42 | pier | hi.. |
| 21:48.01 | pier | I am having a look at the g-dxf.c code |
| 21:48.34 | pier | and wondering where to look for the db_walk_tree function source |
| 21:49.38 | brlcad | eep, you hopefully don't need to follow db_walk_tree beyone understanding that it walks the database geometry tree |
| 21:49.49 | brlcad | regardless, it's in src/librt/db_tree.c |
| 21:50.33 | brlcad | parallel tree walker |
| 21:51.16 | pier | looks like this function does a lot of very important things |
| 21:52.14 | pier | Does it brows the input file pointed by dbip? |
| 21:53.13 | brlcad | it does |
| 21:54.11 | brlcad | it walks through all the geometry in a directory |
| 21:54.32 | brlcad | by itself, that is all that it does |
| 21:54.55 | brlcad | what makes it useful, though, is that you provide it function pointers |
| 21:55.43 | pier | nmg_booltree etc? |
| 21:55.44 | brlcad | those callback functions are called when various geometry are encountered |
| 21:58.03 | pier | so these functions get out triangles from the shapes in the db tree? |
| 21:58.46 | brlcad | what are you looking at specifically? |
| 21:59.15 | brlcad | more than likely if db_walk_tree is being used with nmg evaluation, then yes.. the geometry is being extracted as triangles |
| 21:59.50 | pier | I was just trying to work out the way the code works but the deeper I go the harder it gets |
| 22:01.36 | pier | in order to learn something more about the way you get the shell surface from a boolean combination of solid shapes |
| 22:01.42 | brlcad | you're starting with a pretty complicated converter to begin with |
| 22:02.22 | brlcad | all the nmg_* routines basically do the "get the shell surface from a boolean combination of solid shapes" |
| 22:02.25 | pier | ... positive.. |
| 22:03.36 | brlcad | so you presumably were looking at: |
| 22:03.40 | brlcad | <PROTECTED> |
| 22:03.40 | brlcad | <PROTECTED> |
| 22:03.40 | brlcad | <PROTECTED> |
| 22:03.40 | brlcad | <PROTECTED> |
| 22:03.40 | brlcad | <PROTECTED> |
| 22:03.42 | brlcad | <PROTECTED> |
| 22:03.44 | brlcad | <PROTECTED> |
| 22:03.49 | pier | yes |
| 22:04.25 | brlcad | when you open a geometry database, you're create a directory of the contents |
| 22:04.37 | brlcad | that eventually gets you the dbip |
| 22:04.56 | pier | ok |
| 22:05.09 | pier | I get it |
| 22:05.16 | brlcad | the db_walk_tree function there has two callbacks |
| 22:05.39 | brlcad | whild it's walking the directory, it encounters combinations/regions and primitives |
| 22:05.48 | brlcad | the primitives are "leaf nodes" |
| 22:06.09 | pier | go on please |
| 22:06.11 | brlcad | when it finds a combination/region, db_walk_tree() calls do_region_end() |
| 22:06.25 | brlcad | when it finds a primitive, it calls nmg_booltree_leaf_tess() |
| 22:07.41 | brlcad | nmg_booltree_leaf_tess() is provided by a library and basically tesselates the object into triangles |
| 22:07.54 | pier | ok |
| 22:08.05 | brlcad | do_region_end() is presumably a function in the dxf converter that puts it all together |
| 22:11.21 | pier | I pondered your idea about getting plan views from a raycastin algorithm and I was trying to understand |
| 22:12.36 | pier | the dxf outputting code to see if that aim could have been achieved by modifying the g-dxf code |
| 22:14.25 | brlcad | i thought about that a little bit more as well, the route I'd think about to get a non-discretized answer would require adding a routine to all the primitives |
| 22:15.39 | brlcad | e.g. for the sphere primitive, there already exists a routine to evaluate/get the implicit for (the _shot() routine) and a polygonal explicit form (the _tess() routine) |
| 22:15.45 | pier | that somewhere finds the coordinates of all the objects in the db whose manipoulation I wouldn't like to get involved with |
| 22:16.33 | pier | ok but I got stuck when it comes to the hidden line removal |
| 22:16.53 | brlcad | if one added a _brep() routine or somesuch that returned the brep form, you could then rather easily directly extract exact spline projections |
| 22:19.17 | pier | say I got a pipe |
| 22:20.11 | brlcad | you mean a cylinder? |
| 22:20.25 | pier | which can be thought of as a union rcc1 (with R) - rcc2 (r<R) |
| 22:20.58 | pier | in a g file I ould retrieve the geometrical data of both |
| 22:20.59 | brlcad | ah, so an actual hollow pipe, got it |
| 22:21.04 | pier | yes |
| 22:21.44 | pier | rcc1 (lenght L) rcc2 (l>L) |
| 22:22.33 | pier | I could work out the maximum dimensions of the object |
| 22:22.56 | pier | Xmax Ymax Xmin Ymin to get a view port |
| 22:23.41 | pier | from whose points shoot perpendicoular rays |
| 22:24.15 | pier | am I on the right way? |
| 22:25.34 | brlcad | for a discretized method, sure |
| 22:25.55 | pier | mmm |
| 22:26.05 | pier | otherwise |
| 22:27.36 | pier | for a shape one should consider the edges and project them on a plane |
| 22:28.02 | brlcad | right |
| 22:28.35 | brlcad | that's the method i'm referring to, it's just a matter of how to "get the edge" |
| 22:28.39 | pier | in the case of a cylinder two ellipses joined by two lines tangent to botw of them |
| 22:29.18 | brlcad | you can get a discretized edge from ratracing (a pretty good one at that, but discretized nonetheless) and respline |
| 22:30.24 | brlcad | for non-discretized splines, you can get the edges/outlines etc .. but that's where I said that it'll require modifying the primitives themselves since there currently aren't routines to do this |
| 22:31.01 | brlcad | the first is more simple (and could even be tacked into g-dxf or wherever, but the latter is a "better" solution from a numerical standpoint |
| 22:32.11 | pier | for the sigle shapes (primitives) the projection shouldn't be hard as long as they are not concave |
| 22:33.43 | brlcad | some primitives will be very hard |
| 22:33.46 | brlcad | some not so hard |
| 22:33.49 | brlcad | at all |
| 22:34.06 | pier | yes the ellipsoid for instance |
| 22:34.49 | brlcad | the only hard part will be implementing the boolean evaluation |
| 22:35.33 | brlcad | we have booleans on implicits and triangles, but not brep splines |
| 22:35.48 | brlcad | even for generalized polygons |
| 22:35.48 | pier | yes |
| 22:36.17 | brlcad | it's more the amount of time/effort involved |
| 22:37.05 | brlcad | i'd gather it'd be a generous month or so to get splines in an rtedge fashion inside g-dxf |
| 22:37.37 | brlcad | 6+ months to get full brep support, maybe 2 or 3 for minimal |
| 22:37.48 | ``Erik | MEER ME |
| 22:37.50 | brlcad | and that's a lot of math |
| 22:37.50 | ``Erik | BEER |
| 22:37.58 | brlcad | ~beer ``Erik |
| 22:37.59 | ibot | ACTION deftly decants a fine Jever for ``Erik |
| 22:38.06 | ``Erik | heh, yelling typo's kinda spoiles the effect |
| 22:38.15 | pier | maybe for one who knows exactly what to do and where put hands |
| 22:38.24 | brlcad | yet conveniently still works when it's related to alcohol |
| 22:38.37 | ``Erik | wish I had me some of that |
| 22:38.43 | ``Erik | but, alas, I'm not allowed yet |
| 22:38.54 | brlcad | pier: that was factored in somewhat :) |
| 22:39.04 | pier | :) |
| 22:39.40 | pier | was thinking about matrix rotation to get ellipsoid projection on a plane but not sure |
| 22:41.52 | pier | ok I'll think it over... going to bed now. Have a nice day |
| 22:42.04 | brlcad | not so hard if you have brep |
| 22:42.24 | brlcad | it all ends up being transformations on the splines like how triangles get transformed |
| 22:47.06 | pier | put enough meat on the fire for me... risk going to get clogged up :) bye |
| 22:48.15 | brlcad | heh, cya |
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| 23:48.31 | ``Erik | so how's the new gui going? |
| 23:51.44 | brlcad | no decent progress in dec |
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| 01:32.40 | ``Erik | oi, mike |
| 01:32.54 | tegtmeye | yo! |
| 01:33.20 | tegtmeye | eh? get a new laptop? |
| 01:33.28 | ``Erik | no |
| 01:33.31 | ``Erik | the old 1.25ghz one |
| 01:33.32 | ``Erik | heh |
| 01:33.46 | ``Erik | I just ripped a cd to mp3 |
| 01:35.32 | ``Erik | wrote a short email while ripping/encoding, sent the email, and like 15 seconds left of the rip/encode for the whole cd |
| 01:35.54 | tegtmeye | not bad. I take it that was the first time you did that. |
| 01:36.05 | ``Erik | on the mac, yeah |
| 01:37.23 | ``Erik | and a 16x cdrom with 450mhz athlon wasn't much faster, heh |
| 01:37.42 | tegtmeye | lol, ripping := napster |
| 01:37.43 | ``Erik | the 3.6ghz with 40x at work is slower than the mac, i think... might have to rip another cd there to see |
| 01:38.16 | ``Erik | no, just easier than trying to get my computers cdrom working downstairs, trying to learn a song, want to play with the mp3 to get the pattern and timing down |
| 01:38.28 | ``Erik | getting ready for a jam session with a drum beater |
| 01:38.29 | ``Erik | :) |
| 01:38.35 | ``Erik | <-- heads back down to make more noise |
| 01:38.38 | tegtmeye | ah... |
| 01:38.41 | tegtmeye | have fun |
| 02:22.56 | pra5ad | brlcad, |
| 02:23.02 | pra5ad | u skipping out on us or what |
| 02:23.40 | ``Erik | heh, one of these days, I'll figure out wtf i'm doing with that thing |
| 02:28.00 | brlcad | pra5ad: i don't think i've ever worked the day back after new years |
| 02:28.06 | brlcad | maybe once |
| 02:29.03 | ``Erik | gonna cook up hours later? |
| 02:29.15 | ``Erik | bastage contractor, workin' first 80 style o.O |
| 02:31.16 | brlcad | heh |
| 02:31.21 | brlcad | i take days off |
| 02:37.48 | tegtmeye | yo brlcad, any luck on the in-mem thing? |
| 02:39.00 | ``Erik | I meant cooking as in overloading hours in a single period :) |
| 02:39.05 | ``Erik | like the 36 hour days |
| 03:09.28 | brlcad | oop, he left |
| 03:20.20 | pra5ad | u gonna show up tomorrow? |
| 03:20.58 | brlcad | i'm always here |
| 03:21.31 | pra5ad | on post? |
| 03:39.04 | ``Erik | heh, prasad wants you to make his manboobs hurt, sean ;) *duck* |
| 03:55.42 | CIA-5 | BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/other/iwidgets/pkgIndex.tcl: meh, shouldn't be in cvs, but update to 7.7.0 anyways |
| 04:44.02 | pra5ad | wow final fantasy xii cg is too good |
| 05:28.18 | pra5ad | for low-poly models, ingame gfx is real pretty |
| 05:41.33 | CIA-5 | BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/libfb/if_ogl.c: there is no saveifp, should be ifp |
| 05:42.11 | CIA-5 | BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/libfb/if_ogl_win32.c: no sense using saveifp in a function that provides the ifp |
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| 10:40.09 | clock_ | hi |
| 12:31.32 | brlcad | howdy |
| 12:53.06 | clock_ | fine |
| 12:53.18 | clock_ | sushi <- burning nose :D |
| 12:54.07 | brlcad | excellent, i'm jealous |
| 12:54.32 | clock_ | here is a crazy law that if you have a computer with media player and sound card connected to Internet, you have to pay fees for radio reception. |
| 12:54.39 | clock_ | Do you have this in the US as well? |
| 12:55.31 | ``Erik | not yet o.O |
| 12:55.41 | clock_ | ``Erik: are you from US as well? |
| 12:55.46 | clock_ | this is in switzerland |
| 12:56.16 | ``Erik | yeah, I work at the same place as brlcad... used to work on brlcad |
| 12:56.39 | brlcad | several countries in europe have broadcasting fees for radio/television |
| 12:56.46 | brlcad | on purchases |
| 12:56.55 | brlcad | which I find hilarious |
| 12:58.01 | archivist | but we get high quality tv with no adverts hehe |
| 12:58.06 | clock_ | imagine a poor child that buys a PC and want to educate himself. |
| 12:58.38 | clock_ | It cannot afford the fees so he cannot watch multimedia programmes transmitted by Icecast. He can learn only from materials downloadable as single files. |
| 12:58.47 | clock_ | I consider this a breach in free speech. |
| 12:59.47 | ``Erik | heh, canuckia taxes blank cd's cuz they can be used to record pirated software or music... |
| 13:00.06 | brlcad | heh, canuckia |
| 13:00.11 | ``Erik | basic human knowlege and freedoms take second seat to corporate profits |
| 13:00.15 | ``Erik | o.O |
| 13:00.17 | clock_ | they should also tax stones because they can be used for violent crime like smashing shop windows |
| 13:00.41 | clock_ | ``Erik: so this is the motivation to develop free technology to undermine the corporations |
| 13:00.58 | clock_ | they tax blank cd's in CZ as well |
| 13:01.02 | clock_ | and have broadcast fees |
| 13:02.00 | clock_ | what is free speech good for when you don't have freedom of listening? |
| 13:02.09 | clock_ | they should also begin tax some kind of thoughts |
| 13:04.27 | ``Erik | that'd be called 'intellectual property', and it isn't taxed as much as sued |
| 13:08.46 | clock_ | hehe we are already in fahrenheit 451 and 1984 :) |
| 13:10.17 | clock_ | but GPL BRL-CAD is a giant leap for mankind :) |
| 13:10.45 | clock_ | I can't understand how someone can use that pussy povray. It's not even free software! It has no style! :D |
| 13:11.33 | clock_ | povray or brlcad? |
| 13:11.37 | ``Erik | pov |
| 13:12.05 | clock_ | I first checked if it's free sw and when I saw it isn't I ditched it even before I tried to find out what it can do :) |
| 13:12.17 | ``Erik | also tried lightwave |
| 13:12.21 | clock_ | BRL-CAD is good. Segfault time to time, but when I write report, I get reply |
| 13:12.26 | ``Erik | modelling is not one of my arts |
| 13:13.03 | ``Erik | yeah, sean needs to quit replying to your reports and go work on bz |
| 13:13.05 | ``Erik | :} |
| 13:13.18 | clock_ | lol :) |
| 13:14.13 | brlcad | heh |
| 13:14.53 | brlcad | pov is good for some things, I'd like to set them as a plugin renderer to see the differences |
| 13:15.09 | brlcad | they can't perform as well, but they do global illumination better |
| 13:16.00 | brlcad | and Twingy had a good idea to implement a path tracer with librt at some point, would be interesting to see too |
| 13:16.57 | clock_ | pov is just a commandline tool. BRL-CAD has full-blown hybrid modeling environment. |
| 13:17.24 | clock_ | click-clack and your model is done. Like in those Sci-Fi movies. |
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| 14:17.40 | ``Erik | *grouse* |
| 14:18.22 | ``Erik | so, what, 5pm? |
| 14:18.27 | brlcad | heh |
| 14:18.41 | ``Erik | O:-) |
| 14:20.18 | ``Erik | hm, southpark guys using xserves for storage, swank |
| 14:27.52 | clock_ | xservers for storage? |
| 14:35.12 | ``Erik | x-serve, apples rackmount servers |
| 14:58.13 | clock_ | omg mapple |
| 14:58.14 | clock_ | apple |
| 14:58.33 | clock_ | I saw two apple notebooks - in one the motherboard suddenly died, and in the other the LCD inverter suddenly died. |
| 14:58.40 | clock_ | My personal opinion is that Apple hardware is crap. |
| 15:08.56 | pra5ad | it sure is |
| 15:16.09 | ``Erik | heh, two doa's on a big lot is insanely good, prasad |
| 15:35.07 | CIA-15 | BRL-CAD: 03bob1961 * 10brlcad/configure.ac: Add more blt dirs to AC_CONFIG_FILES |
| 15:39.47 | CIA-15 | BRL-CAD: 03bob1961 * 10brlcad/src/other/blt/Makefile.am: Add EXTRA_DIST. Also add demos and win to SURDIRS. |
| 15:43.02 | CIA-15 | BRL-CAD: 03bob1961 * 10brlcad/src/other/blt/src/Makefile.am: Add EXTRA_DIST for Windows |
| 15:44.26 | CIA-15 | BRL-CAD: 03bob1961 * 10brlcad/src/other/blt/ (demos/Makefile.am demos/bitmaps/Makefile.am win/Makefile.am): Initial check-in |
| 15:54.10 | CIA-15 | BRL-CAD: 03bob1961 * 10brlcad/src/libsysv/Makefile.am: Add to EXTRA_DIST for Windows |
| 15:55.44 | CIA-15 | BRL-CAD: 03bob1961 * 10brlcad/src/librt/Makefile.am: Add to EXTRA_DIST for Windows |
| 15:58.42 | CIA-15 | BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/fb/fb-bw.c: add support for -F framebuffer option to fb-bw |
| 15:59.50 | CIA-15 | BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/NEWS: add support for -F framebuffer option to fb-bw |
| 16:00.19 | CIA-15 | BRL-CAD: 03bob1961 * 10brlcad/src/other/libtcl/Makefile.am: Add win to EXTRA_DIST |
| 16:01.30 | CIA-15 | BRL-CAD: 03bob1961 * 10brlcad/src/other/libpng/Makefile.am: Add scripts to EXTRA_DIST |
| 16:01.51 | CIA-15 | BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/fb/fb-bw.1: add support for -F framebuffer option to fb-bw |
| 16:02.03 | brlcad | woot, go bob go |
| 16:03.18 | CIA-15 | BRL-CAD: 03bob1961 * 10brlcad/src/other/tkimg/ (5 files in 5 dirs): Add to EXTRA_DIST for Windows |
| 16:04.26 | CIA-15 | BRL-CAD: 03bob1961 * 10brlcad/src/fbserv/Makefile.am: Add to EXTRA_DIST for Windows |
| 17:04.01 | *** join/#brlcad DTRemenak (n=DTRemena@DHCP-170-143.caltech.edu) | |
| 19:07.49 | CIA-15 | BRL-CAD: 03bob1961 * 10brlcad/src/tclscripts/lib/Db.tcl: Change the help for erotate, escale and etranslate to orotate, oscale and otranslate, respectively. |
| 19:10.55 | CIA-15 | BRL-CAD: 03bob1961 * 10brlcad/src/tclscripts/lib/Command.tcl: Add back door for accessing the master interpreter (i.e. the Command widget uses a slave interpreter for interfacing with the user). Other minor mods. |
| 19:14.17 | CIA-15 | BRL-CAD: 03bob1961 * 10brlcad/src/tclscripts/lib/ColorEntry.tcl: Modified to use tk_chooseColor. Other minor cleanup. |
| 21:27.52 | CIA-15 | BRL-CAD: 03bob1961 * 10brlcad/src/tclscripts/lib/ComboBox.tcl: Minor cleanup. |
| 21:29.30 | CIA-15 | BRL-CAD: 03bob1961 * 10brlcad/src/tclscripts/archer/Archer.tcl: Minor cleanup. |
| 21:34.38 | CIA-15 | BRL-CAD: 03bob1961 * 10brlcad/src/tclscripts/swidgets/scripts/tree.itk: Check-in for Doug Howard. |
| 21:57.45 | CIA-15 | BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/sh/header.sh: add support for DOS batch script files, using REM as the comment |
| 22:05.27 | CIA-15 | BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/sh/footer.sh: add support for DOS batch script files, using REM as the comment |
| 22:05.34 | *** join/#brlcad tegtmeye (n=803f2007@bz.bzflag.bz) | |
| 22:05.54 | tegtmeye | you awake brlcad? |
| 22:09.31 | brlcad | tegtmeye: yes |
| 22:10.21 | tegtmeye | fdopen |
| 22:13.27 | brlcad | thar she be |
| 22:13.37 | brlcad | thought there was one |
| 22:14.20 | tegtmeye | still not sure it is going to work tho |
| 22:16.05 | ``Erik | y'know that 'interview' you did with sf back in aprilish, sean? |
| 22:16.45 | ``Erik | they totally borked up your entry in the 'key developers' sideline :D they got dave's pic and name there hehehehe |
| 22:27.46 | brlcad | ahh, so they did |
| 22:27.50 | brlcad | must be the new site |
| 22:42.50 | tegtmeye | <PROTECTED> |
| 23:34.34 | ``Erik | *grouse* my optimizer pass is damaging my code |
| 00:16.22 | *** join/#brlcad mahesh (n=mahesh@12-217-228-235.client.mchsi.com) | |
| 00:48.49 | brlcad | it's a "special" optimization pass |
| 00:57.42 | ``Erik | indeed |
| 00:57.52 | ``Erik | I solved the 'eating data' bug, but not the 'ignoringn chunks' bug |
| 00:58.14 | ``Erik | but now I'm busy reading http://philip.greenspun.com/research/software-pricing *sigh* |
| 00:58.21 | brlcad | better than spewing chunks |
| 01:00.14 | brlcad | bs article somewhat, i learned photoshop as well as most pros and never touched a manual, barely even slowed me down |
| 01:00.29 | brlcad | though I might have borrowed from a friend's friend |
| 01:01.15 | ``Erik | some interesting ideas, some obvious flaws, ... ultimately intractable, but an amusing thought exercise |
| 01:02.10 | ``Erik | hasta |
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| 12:12.28 | *** join/#brlcad Mac- (i=t-72@abls163.neoplus.adsl.tpnet.pl) | |
| 12:12.31 | Mac- | hi there |
| 12:14.51 | Mac- | anyone works with GraphiteOne CAD ? |
| 13:01.27 | brlcad | heh, no |
| 13:03.42 | *** join/#brlcad AchiestDragon (n=dave@whipy.demon.co.uk) | |
| 13:43.14 | pra5ad | wakka wakka |
| 14:49.32 | ``Erik | damnit, it's morning again, that keeps happening |
| 14:51.25 | archivist | dont wake up then |
| 15:03.42 | ``Erik | <-- already at the office, doesn't trust these fuckers enough to sleep |
| 16:48.52 | CIA-15 | BRL-CAD: 03bob1961 * 10brlcad/src/archer/archer: All of archer including the tclscripts is assigned to u.s. government and should be under the LGPL |
| 16:59.39 | clock_ | is it possible to get free software job working on BRL-CAD? |
| 17:01.55 | *** join/#brlcad CIA-5 (i=cia@flapjack.navi.cx) | |
| 17:42.52 | brlcad | clock_: yes it is |
| 17:43.39 | ``Erik | 1heh |
| 17:43.46 | ``Erik | I thought I did, bbbuuutttt |
| 17:43.47 | ``Erik | :) |
| 17:44.30 | brlcad | we've been talking about opening contract-style positions for tasks to the community |
| 17:44.42 | brlcad | a few K for some feature(s) |
| 17:44.59 | ``Erik | ah |
| 17:45.02 | ``Erik | bounties |
| 17:45.03 | brlcad | still considering different mechanisms for doing that |
| 17:45.08 | brlcad | yep |
| 17:45.17 | ``Erik | open bounties, or claimed? |
| 17:45.34 | brlcad | either both, first come first serve, depends |
| 17:46.03 | ``Erik | I'd hate to work on a feature just to have some kid with no daytime job beat me to it when I'm 95% done |
| 17:46.19 | brlcad | yeah, that would suck |
| 17:46.32 | brlcad | not to mention just be inefficient |
| 17:46.43 | brlcad | there's plenty to do |
| 17:46.44 | ``Erik | of course, commiting the task to someone who never finishes it would suck, too :) |
| 17:47.14 | brlcad | there would have to be some higher incentive for completing a claimed task |
| 17:47.50 | ``Erik | if you talk to lee about it soon, would you mind asking about the viability of m3 devers on claiming those bounties, if it ever happen? :) |
| 17:48.04 | brlcad | sure |
| 17:48.08 | ``Erik | thnx |
| 17:49.26 | brlcad | I can imagine what he'd say, though what would really matter would be to ask someone higher up or better yet someone external that might care (like legal) |
| 17:49.35 | brlcad | or cpo |
| 17:49.54 | ``Erik | well, yeah, but he'd be the vehicle for expressing that aspect up the chain |
| 17:50.19 | brlcad | technically, I don't think there's a conflict of interest like you'd have if it were commercial product contracting that is govt involved |
| 17:50.29 | brlcad | since this is a free product, and from govt |
| 17:52.42 | ``Erik | yeah, but *shrug* better to have explicit ok first |
| 17:52.49 | ``Erik | cya |
| 18:05.14 | clock_ | brlcad: and is it possible to live in Switzerland and work for US? |
| 18:09.46 | brlcad | depends who you work for and what sort of job |
| 18:10.47 | brlcad | for what was just mentioned about contracted tasks/bounties, sure |
| 18:16.46 | clock_ | hmm but I mean permanent employment |
| 18:21.14 | brlcad | that's considerably harder |
| 18:21.23 | brlcad | for many reasons |
| 18:21.56 | brlcad | not impossible, but the person would have to be proven to be worth it beforehand given the effort it'd take to even try |
| 18:31.43 | ``Erik | so he runs off, heh |
| 18:31.44 | ``Erik | :D |
| 18:33.41 | joevalleyfield | beer |
| 18:33.53 | ``Erik | give me some |
| 18:33.53 | archivist | mysql works that way |
| 18:37.31 | brlcad | mysql works on beer |
| 18:38.58 | archivist | mysql works on every box i run |
| 18:39.07 | joevalleyfield | how many run beer? |
| 18:39.35 | archivist | i wish |
| 18:43.06 | archivist | feeding coffe to a pc is definately not a good idea (dead mb) |
| 18:43.56 | ``Erik | my ibook got hung over when I fed it beer |
| 18:44.22 | ``Erik | (quit working, wouldn't boot, two days later, it was ok) |
| 18:45.57 | ``Erik | http://www.bsdguru.org/img/inst_po_konferencji_640.jpg o.O |
| 18:46.16 | archivist | i spent a couple of hours washing my mb waited till it dried still buggered though, damn thing was only a few weeks old, had to get another |
| 18:47.27 | *** join/#brlcad docelic (i=docelic@ri01-024.dialin.iskon.hr) | |
| 19:15.40 | joevalleyfield | anyone here embed python? |
| 19:16.03 | brlcad | minimal exp in bz |
| 19:16.36 | joevalleyfield | can you point me in a direction for getting the ldflags? |
| 19:17.03 | joevalleyfield | should i just do a straight-forward lib test like brlcad does for tcl? |
| 19:20.42 | brlcad | hmm.. that particular bz plugin used scons, but lemme check what it did |
| 19:21.52 | brlcad | heh, well since scons is already python, it was conveniently on hand via the python interpreter |
| 19:21.58 | brlcad | python_lib = ['python%d.%d' % sys.version_info[0:2]] |
| 19:21.58 | brlcad | python_libpath = [sysconfig.get_python_lib (0, 1) + '/config'] |
| 19:21.58 | brlcad | python_include = [sysconfig.get_python_inc ()] |
| 19:21.59 | brlcad | python_linkflags = Split (sysconfig.get_config_var('LINKFORSHARED')) |
| 19:22.32 | joevalleyfield | once i've run path python |
| 19:23.35 | joevalleyfield | nevermind |
| 19:23.38 | brlcad | yeah, once you've detected python, you can invoke and pull the values |
| 19:23.46 | joevalleyfield | where does it get the sysconfig module? |
| 19:23.54 | brlcad | import sys |
| 19:24.16 | brlcad | oh, sysconfig |
| 19:24.20 | brlcad | from distutils import sysconfig |
| 19:24.57 | joevalleyfield | ah, it is in dist utils :) |
| 19:25.09 | joevalleyfield | much thansks |
| 19:47.17 | CIA-5 | BRL-CAD: 03lbutler * 10brlcad/src/rt/ (reshoot.c reshoot.1): (log message trimmed) |
| 19:47.17 | CIA-5 | BRL-CAD: This is an application for re-shooting rays and comparing the results |
| 19:47.18 | CIA-5 | BRL-CAD: to previous applicatin runs. The princiiple use will probably be |
| 19:47.18 | CIA-5 | BRL-CAD: in the regression test suite. In that context, it should allow us |
| 19:47.18 | CIA-5 | BRL-CAD: to shoot all the MUVES test suite rays outside of MUVES. The one downside |
| 19:47.18 | CIA-5 | BRL-CAD: is that it relies on the RT_G_DEBUG flag DEBUG_ALLHITS to cause librt |
| 19:47.20 | CIA-5 | BRL-CAD: to log the original rays. Since floating point values are logged with %g some |
| 19:49.55 | *** join/#brlcad clock_ (n=clock@84-72-89-199.dclient.hispeed.ch) | |
| 19:50.09 | clock_ | brlcad: should I send you my CV? |
| 19:55.51 | CIA-5 | BRL-CAD: 03lbutler * 10brlcad/src/rt/reshoot.1: Added a "BUGS" section with suitable caveats for precision loss |
| 20:30.09 | *** join/#brlcad pier (n=pier@151.56.220.10) | |
| 20:47.11 | clock_ | brlcad: here? |
| 21:03.21 | ``Erik | he's busy |
| 21:06.15 | *** join/#brlcad Obscene_CNN (n=DiscoBan@owt-64-146-239-67.owt.com) | |
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| 22:04.09 | *** part/#brlcad pier (n=pier@151.56.220.10) | |
| 22:05.56 | CIA-5 | BRL-CAD: 03lbutler * 10brlcad/src/rt/reshoot.c: better output formatting |
| 22:38.28 | CIA-5 | BRL-CAD: 03lbutler * 10brlcad/src/rt/ (reshoot.1 reshoot.c): extended documentation, code formatting, modified reporting |
| 22:40.44 | CIA-5 | BRL-CAD: 03lbutler * 10brlcad/NEWS: added reshoot notice. |
| 23:46.22 | ``Erik | home at last |
| 02:42.08 | CIA-5 | BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/fb/fb-bw.c: flubber fubber |
| 03:09.44 | pra5ad | i hate the way sen to chihiro ends |
| 03:18.26 | pra5ad | daaamn back to back studio ghibli movies on TCM |
| 03:20.27 | *** join/#brlcad DTRemenak (n=DTRemena@DHCP-170-143.caltech.edu) | |
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| 07:41.50 | *** join/#brlcad fenn (n=fenn@adsl-70-239-71-213.dsl.bltnin.sbcglobal.net) | |
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| 08:41.38 | *** join/#brlcad ibot (i=ibot@rikers.org) | |
| 08:41.38 | *** topic/#brlcad is http://brlcad.org/ || BRL-CAD is now Free Software! || 7.6.6 to be released by the 15th! | |
| 08:42.53 | CIA-5 | BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/librt/db5_scan.c: |
| 08:42.53 | CIA-5 | BRL-CAD: init the rt_uniresource structure if it hasn't been initialized yet so that we |
| 08:42.53 | CIA-5 | BRL-CAD: can call db_dirbuild() directly without necessarily needing to worry about |
| 08:42.53 | CIA-5 | BRL-CAD: initializing a resource structure. this mimicks the behavior and initialization |
| 08:42.53 | CIA-5 | BRL-CAD: that rt_dirbuild() performas as well. |
| 08:49.57 | CIA-5 | BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/gtools/g_transfer.c: initial stubbed g_transfer example application for transferring portions of a geometry database over a network line serialized. incomplete, but provides the main organization. |
| 08:50.38 | CIA-5 | BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/gtools/Makefile.am: add the new g_transfer.c file to the build including the creation of the g_transfer example database application for transferring portions of a .g over the wire serialized. |
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| 14:38.42 | *** join/#brlcad tippel (n=c3532a82@bz.bzflag.bz) | |
| 14:41.17 | tippel | hi there |
| 14:42.09 | fenn | mornin |
| 14:44.33 | tippel | I'm discovering BRL-CAD and I was wondering if I can carry CSG/boolean operations out and obtain a mesh of the result |
| 14:44.40 | tippel | good morning fenn |
| 14:45.07 | brlcad | tippel: morning |
| 14:45.10 | brlcad | and yes you can |
| 14:45.54 | brlcad | several of the geometry converters do that, there is also a "mesh" primitive in brl-cad that you can convert geometry to (called a BoT or "Bag of Triangles") |
| 14:47.08 | brlcad | you just can't go from mesh back to the csg form since the associativity and operations are lost |
| 14:47.44 | clock_ | brlcad: hi |
| 14:48.13 | brlcad | tippel: check out the 'facetize' command in mged and several of the g-* commands outside mged (e.g. g-stl, g-vrml) |
| 14:48.19 | brlcad | clock_: moin moin |
| 14:48.26 | clock_ | brlcad: should I send my CV? |
| 14:48.32 | tippel | ok thank you, my team is developping applications which need CSG operations but we would like to obtain BoT. Today we're using Open Cascade but this API is very heavy |
| 14:49.20 | brlcad | if you want to programmatically create csg geometry, there are lots of coding examples |
| 14:49.48 | brlcad | the src/proc-db directory and the src/mk directory both contain a couple dozen examples |
| 14:50.41 | brlcad | plus our license is generally more friendly (and if it gets in the way of something you want to do, let me know) |
| 14:54.23 | tippel | ok and is brlcad robust with coplanar polygons during a sub boolean operation ? (a rectangular hole, in a wall ) |
| 14:55.23 | brlcad | within the numerical tolerance of your hardware, sure |
| 14:56.08 | brlcad | if there's floating point fuzz that make them seem distinct, there can be issues but the raytracer will visually show you whether that's an issue |
| 14:56.26 | brlcad | plug you there are 5 different tolerances you can set turing tesselation |
| 14:56.48 | brlcad | numerical computation tolerance, curvature tolerance, absolute tolerance, etc |
| 14:59.48 | ``Erik | I saw a wall once |
| 15:00.32 | ``Erik | sean, 8pm, dude... :D |
| 15:00.38 | brlcad | oh yeah! |
| 15:00.48 | brlcad | thx, i'd forgot |
| 15:01.22 | ``Erik | should I try to remember to remind you again when I leave at like 6? |
| 15:02.06 | brlcad | hehe |
| 15:02.14 | brlcad | nah, now it'll be stuck in my head all day |
| 15:02.22 | ``Erik | 'k |
| 15:03.51 | tippel | ok thank you very much (I hate webchat :) ) |
| 15:04.42 | brlcad | feel free to get a real irc client and hang around ;) |
| 15:04.54 | ``Erik | BitchX-1.1-final+ by panasync - FreeBSD 6.0-STABLE |
| 15:04.56 | ``Erik | wokkawokka |
| 15:05.15 | brlcad | irssi in screen |
| 15:05.28 | tippel | yes but at work, my firewall is not very kind with me :( |
| 15:05.47 | ``Erik | heh |
| 15:05.57 | ``Erik | so ssh into your home box? :D |
| 15:06.30 | tippel | ssh on port 80 ;) |
| 15:07.07 | tippel | because port 22 is closed too :'( |
| 15:07.21 | tippel | I wish I had time to do that |
| 15:07.38 | ``Erik | silly firewall admins, thinking they can control behavior by blocking ports |
| 15:08.43 | tippel | yep |
| 15:08.57 | tippel | are you all brlcad developpers ? |
| 15:09.26 | brlcad | some are, some aren't |
| 15:09.33 | tippel | ok |
| 15:09.35 | brlcad | i am |
| 15:09.59 | fenn | i'm writing a program that may or may not use brlcad libs |
| 15:10.04 | tippel | brlcad : I guessed ;) |
| 15:10.24 | tippel | ok |
| 15:12.23 | *** join/#brlcad flocou (n=c3532a82@bz.bzflag.bz) | |
| 15:13.05 | tippel | hi flocou |
| 15:13.24 | flocou | yep |
| 15:13.36 | brlcad | howdy flocou |
| 15:14.04 | brlcad | heh, a matching pair |
| 15:14.18 | flocou | well, thx...buzness neighbor of tippel... |
| 15:14.47 | brlcad | what sort of business if you can share? |
| 15:15.29 | brlcad | making those little metal tips on the end of pencils? |
| 15:15.58 | flocou | brlcad is rather new for us...we're looking for strong open source CSG package...aim is to compute 3D shape representation of IFC models (do U know this format ?)...and to replace OpenCascade CSG computations... |
| 15:19.11 | brlcad | brl-cad's raytrace library is one of the oldest established csg packages around |
| 15:20.00 | brlcad | don't know the "IFC" format explicitly but from what I know of the data model, it's a pretty trivial mapping |
| 15:20.24 | tippel | IFC is a STEP-based product model |
| 15:20.24 | brlcad | especially with ifc's idea of modeling "space" and brl-cad's concept of air regions |
| 15:20.34 | brlcad | ahhh |
| 15:20.57 | tippel | Industry Foundation Classes, used for AEC |
| 15:21.20 | brlcad | you mean that bastard iso spec sitting in a box with over 10K pages sitting right over .. *kicks box* here? |
| 15:23.13 | ``Erik | damn, I'm hungry |
| 15:23.22 | tippel | But IFC doesn't use all spec of STEP |
| 15:23.27 | brlcad | and that 10+k pages is only 5 subsets of 10303, ap11, ap203, ap214, .. |
| 15:23.40 | flocou | AFAIK, it seems to be possible to export csg geometry results to vrml ? another issue is : is brlcad thread-safe ? |
| 15:24.34 | brlcad | tippel: which is a good thing -- i don't think most cad companies could afford to support the entire 10303 -- it fills about 40 feet of shelf space printed |
| 15:24.38 | tippel | flocou : brlcad told me that you can use and import/export bag of triangles |
| 15:24.52 | brlcad | flocou: yes, there is a vrml exporter |
| 15:25.20 | tippel | of course, IFC uses only 10303-11 (express language) and 10303-21 (files exchange) |
| 15:25.36 | tippel | and is quite inspired from 10303-42 (geometric representation) |
| 15:25.39 | brlcad | it used to be vrml 1.0 but was upgraded to vrml 2 without retaining a toggle for 1, wouldn't take much to revert or readd support |
| 15:26.36 | brlcad | that just means ifc is sufficiently generic, 21 allows for arbitrary higher-level ap conformance whcih you have to support if you want to actually write a converter (e.g. ap203, ap214) |
| 15:26.50 | brlcad | ap42 is just gravy |
| 15:27.10 | tippel | Is brlcad thread safe ? |
| 15:27.18 | brlcad | flocou: yes, brl-cad is extensively thread safe or the functions are marked if when they are not |
| 15:27.38 | brlcad | the entire raytrace library is specifically geared for massive parallel computation |
| 15:27.54 | brlcad | which is what drives most of the csg analysis |
| 15:28.04 | brlcad | s/most/all/ |
| 15:28.48 | brlcad | brl-cad has it's own multiprocessing management as well that you can just enable |
| 15:29.15 | brlcad | so that geometry is prepared in parallel, walk databases in parallel, etc |
| 15:31.09 | tippel | is this multiprocessing management compatible with sgi sproc or pthread ? |
| 15:31.59 | brlcad | by default on sgi, it prefers sproc |
| 15:32.07 | brlcad | but could be compiled to use pthread |
| 15:32.25 | brlcad | sproc preferrered for performance reasons usually (though yeah, incompatible) |
| 15:36.32 | CIA-5 | BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/TODO: new geometry examples aren't going to happen this iteration |
| 15:38.13 | clock_ | brlcad: have you fixed some of the bugs I reported? |
| 15:39.01 | tippel | ok thx |
| 15:39.44 | flocou | ok, thx brlcad for all these precisions... |
| 15:41.21 | brlcad | clock_: some yes, some no.. working on them |
| 15:41.45 | brlcad | this month is a bit difficult since the windows merge is also going on |
| 15:42.02 | brlcad | and archer was added |
| 15:42.10 | brlcad | massive code merging |
| 15:42.29 | brlcad | still not back to stable builds on head yet |
| 15:45.43 | *** topic/#brlcad by brlcad -> http://brlcad.org/ || BRL-CAD is now Free Software! || BRL-CAD Windows port has been merged to HEAD, not yet stable yet || December/January is a unified iteration to allow time for holidays || Archer is now on head, kick the tires, report any bugs | |
| 15:47.39 | clock_ | brlcad: windows merge? what is it? |
| 15:47.59 | clock_ | brlcad: what does kick the tires mean? |
| 15:56.08 | brlcad | clock_: we've been working on the brl-cad port to windows for some time now (several years actually) |
| 15:56.08 | CIA-5 | BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/HACKING: |
| 15:56.08 | CIA-5 | BRL-CAD: additional release may be made on an as-needed basis for bug-fix releases and |
| 15:56.08 | CIA-5 | BRL-CAD: security issues. December/January time frame is considered a single release |
| 15:56.08 | CIA-5 | BRL-CAD: iteration in order to accommodate holidays and vacations, and to give the devs a |
| 15:56.08 | CIA-5 | BRL-CAD: break. |
| 15:57.01 | brlcad | the work accelerated this summer, with a cvs branch getting created that had all of the modifications necessary for windows |
| 15:57.43 | brlcad | these modifications were recently merged in with the core of brl-cad (so that we can start consistently making windows binary releases in addition to our usual plethora of systems) |
| 15:58.06 | clock_ | brlcad: wow! |
| 15:58.13 | brlcad | kicking the tires is an expression, means try it out |
| 15:58.24 | brlcad | archer is a new modeling interface |
| 15:58.42 | brlcad | worked on by the same guys that worked on the windows port |
| 16:00.47 | tippel | bye all |
| 16:04.21 | fenn | brlcad: i converted the 19MB ApplicationDevelopment file to html, so that others wouldn't have to download a 19MB file and find out there was only about 20K of text |
| 16:04.54 | fenn | http://fenn.dyndns.org/pub/ApplicationDevelopment.html |
| 16:05.13 | *** join/#brlcad tegtmeye (n=tegtmeye@pool-70-17-225-27.balt.east.verizon.net) | |
| 16:05.43 | brlcad | hmm |
| 16:05.48 | brlcad | ~ping fenn.dydns.org |
| 16:05.50 | ibot | pong fenn.dydns.org |
| 16:07.23 | brlcad | fenn: thanks, I'll post it |
| 16:07.29 | brlcad | (and agree) |
| 16:08.01 | brlcad | it was a presentation that was just provided for convenience since it's a fairly frequent request |
| 16:08.35 | brlcad | fenn: mind you that presentation is fairly specific to writing analysis-style applications |
| 16:08.49 | fenn | right |
| 16:08.49 | brlcad | if you are writing out geometry, you don't really need to be concerned with most of that |
| 16:09.30 | fenn | how do i test intersection of two solids? |
| 16:10.14 | fenn | do a boolean intersection and see if anything is left? |
| 16:11.33 | brlcad | ah, we call those overlaps |
| 16:11.50 | brlcad | confused me there for a sec |
| 16:12.10 | fenn | er sorry, i'm talking about collision detection |
| 16:12.11 | brlcad | boolean intersections inherintly don't "overlap" |
| 16:12.16 | brlcad | right |
| 16:12.27 | fenn | havent slept yet :) |
| 16:12.41 | brlcad | me either ;) |
| 16:12.56 | brlcad | almost time for midday coffee |
| 16:13.58 | brlcad | for testing intersection of two implicitly defined objects, you have to use ray introspection |
| 16:14.18 | fenn | . |
| 16:14.21 | fenn | oops |
| 16:14.40 | brlcad | just mathematically due to the nature of implicits |
| 16:14.54 | brlcad | now if you convert it to an explicit model, there are other techniques available |
| 16:15.13 | brlcad | but brl-cad deals best with implicits currently |
| 16:15.17 | fenn | what is the difference between explicit and implicit geometry? |
| 16:16.04 | brlcad | implicit geometry has no defined boundary, it's a mathematical model |
| 16:16.20 | brlcad | numerically defined by mathematical geometric shapes |
| 16:16.38 | fenn | like a sphere |
| 16:16.38 | brlcad | e.g. an ellipsoid defined by a point and major and minor radius |
| 16:16.51 | brlcad | take that same object and represent it differently |
| 16:17.02 | fenn | is a bot explicit? |
| 16:17.03 | brlcad | say, as a bunch of triangles on the surface |
| 16:17.06 | fenn | ok |
| 16:17.08 | brlcad | and you have explicit |
| 16:17.21 | brlcad | or a set of surface splines, also explicit |
| 16:18.41 | brlcad | very different problems determining whether i'm "inside" a sphere comprised of a bunch of triangles, or one that's implicit |
| 16:19.13 | brlcad | for the implicit form, it might be a simple distance test for a sphere, if distance to center is < radius then I'm inside |
| 16:19.35 | fenn | can i apply a n*m transformation matrix and still end up with implicit geometry? |
| 16:19.36 | brlcad | for explicit, if all I have are the triangles, I'm performing planar side checks |
| 16:19.43 | brlcad | sure |
| 16:19.48 | fenn | (for that matter can i apply a n*m matrix at all?) |
| 16:19.58 | brlcad | you can apply all the same rigid, non-rigid transformations |
| 16:20.49 | brlcad | brl-cad has a couple primitives that are not well behaved for certain non-rigid transformations (because mathematically they are not well defined for them) like trying to skew o torus for example |
| 16:31.18 | fenn | thanks.. seeya |
| 17:42.01 | *** join/#brlcad pier (n=pier@151.56.220.10) | |
| 17:58.19 | *** join/#brlcad phcoder (n=phcoder@pcp0011650294pcs.aberdn01.md.comcast.net) | |
| 18:08.43 | phcoder | :-( |
| 18:23.25 | brlcad | they sucked, but my quads are jelly now |
| 18:34.28 | pier | 20 reps and get plenty of GH :) |
| 18:41.46 | ``Erik | ya'll're sick perverts |
| 18:44.55 | brlcad | GH? |
| 18:45.26 | brlcad | gerbil hamsters? |
| 18:45.35 | ``Erik | gay homosexuals? o.O |
| 18:45.39 | ``Erik | *duck* |
| 18:46.07 | ``Erik | grr, six hours and 15 minute |
| 18:46.08 | ``Erik | s |
| 18:48.06 | phcoder | did pra5ad do squats? |
| 18:49.49 | brlcad | he did! |
| 18:49.58 | brlcad | and didn't collapse |
| 18:50.10 | phcoder | good for him |
| 18:50.18 | phcoder | bar? ;-) |
| 18:50.24 | phcoder | j/k |
| 18:51.17 | brlcad | heh |
| 18:51.17 | brlcad | actually |
| 18:51.19 | brlcad | .. he started with that |
| 18:53.16 | phcoder | and then... |
| 18:56.20 | brlcad | 25s |
| 18:56.31 | brlcad | tried 35s but he couldn't but a couple |
| 18:56.48 | brlcad | or you mean what other exercise |
| 18:57.40 | brlcad | after was situps with the medicine ball and pec deck |
| 18:57.55 | phcoder | no - that's what I meant. i bet the stability was difficult - i remember it was starting out for me... |
| 18:58.03 | phcoder | good workout today |
| 18:58.05 | phcoder | :-( |
| 18:58.13 | phcoder | missed it durnit |
| 19:00.12 | brlcad | he did surprisingly good form actually |
| 19:01.52 | phcoder | what'd you do? |
| 19:21.37 | pier | Growth Hormone |
| 19:24.02 | pier | acording to Stuart McRobert GH production can naturally increased with 20 reps squat |
| 19:25.16 | brlcad | ahh |
| 19:25.27 | brlcad | phcoder: i aint telling |
| 19:26.22 | brlcad | pier: that sounds a bit dubious for large muscle growth |
| 19:26.37 | pier | why? |
| 19:26.43 | brlcad | usually the bigger the muscles, the lower the reps you want for growth |
| 19:27.37 | pier | as long as you work out large muscles GH and test is increased easing the growth of all muscles |
| 19:28.17 | Maloeran | The cardiovascular system is usually what you want to train to be in good shapes, not particular groups of muscles |
| 19:28.46 | pier | try doind 20 reps full speed ahead and you tell me then... |
| 19:29.11 | Maloeran | Hum sorry but what are "reps", push-ups, pull-ups? |
| 19:29.17 | pier | I reduced my heart pace from 85 to 55 (idle) |
| 19:30.01 | phcoder | reps = repetitions |
| 19:30.14 | phcoder | of some exercise |
| 19:30.21 | Maloeran | That's rather vague :) |
| 19:30.45 | phcoder | well - we were talking about squats... |
| 19:30.49 | brlcad | yet makes complete since if you'd ever lifted ;) |
| 19:30.59 | brlcad | sense too |
| 19:31.07 | phcoder | hmm - then maybe 20 reps of ... cleans ... ? :-) |
| 19:31.07 | pier | maybe but that a fact :) |
| 19:31.15 | brlcad | bastage! :) |
| 19:31.38 | brlcad | that would be interesting to try, but it'd have to be such a lower weight |
| 19:31.51 | phcoder | you know - just 135 should be fine |
| 19:31.55 | brlcad | my joints couldn't take that many |
| 19:31.55 | pier | I own up I wouldn't be able to make a clean even with a broom stick |
| 19:32.36 | brlcad | phcoder: did full stack on peck deck :) |
| 19:33.03 | brlcad | pier: yet sounds like you workout some? |
| 19:33.10 | pier | a bit |
| 19:33.31 | pier | been dooing that for the past five years |
| 19:33.32 | phcoder | full stack huh... hrmph |
| 19:35.45 | brlcad | think it was 140 or 130 |
| 19:35.59 | brlcad | several yeps then peaked |
| 19:39.45 | Maloeran | I still think the time would be much better spent running, for example... :) though I never lifted |
| 19:41.08 | brlcad | good stuff |
| 19:41.19 | brlcad | i bike or row for my cardio |
| 19:44.20 | Maloeran | *nods* Quite good. Besides when Montreal is covered in snow, I'm used to do 30km daily too ( 18 miles? ) |
| 19:46.58 | brlcad | ~convert 30 km to m |
| 19:47.06 | brlcad | heh |
| 19:47.09 | brlcad | ~convert 30 km to miles |
| 19:48.54 | *** part/#brlcad phcoder (n=phcoder@pcp0011650294pcs.aberdn01.md.comcast.net) | |
| 19:51.00 | ``Erik | what the frack... |
| 19:51.13 | brlcad | no no |
| 19:51.16 | brlcad | what the frell |
| 19:51.51 | ``Erik | ... ok, how about... what the flying fuck did that fucking fucktard do to the fucking source |
| 19:51.54 | ``Erik | better? :) |
| 19:52.09 | brlcad | hm, i suppose it's time for bsg lingo, always liked farscapes though :) |
| 19:52.47 | brlcad | at least this isn't |
| 19:52.52 | brlcad | .. ever, never mind |
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| 21:17.10 | pier | Could there be a reason why fb-png gets stuck? |
| 21:19.09 | brlcad | gets stuck? |
| 21:19.27 | brlcad | never seen it get stuck, slow maybe, but not stuck |
| 21:19.52 | pier | Hi brlcad, yes it always worked but now .. |
| 21:20.20 | brlcad | only reason it might get stuck is if the framebuffer isn't responding |
| 21:20.24 | pier | maybe I added some perticoular object that is not allowed |
| 21:20.39 | brlcad | fb-png knows nothing about objects |
| 21:20.44 | pier | ok |
| 21:20.53 | brlcad | it's just pixel manipulation |
| 21:21.07 | brlcad | network communication, file writing |
| 21:21.19 | pier | exec fb-png -w 1024 -n 768 -F:0 frs.png |
| 21:21.39 | pier | is the syntax correct? |
| 21:21.41 | brlcad | ahh, heh |
| 21:21.55 | brlcad | so calling from inside mged presumably? |
| 21:22.07 | brlcad | is mged frozen? |
| 21:22.19 | pier | from both inside and outside |
| 21:22.20 | brlcad | should usually just call from outside mged |
| 21:22.24 | pier | yes ... blocked |
| 21:22.31 | brlcad | is the framebuffer on? |
| 21:22.34 | brlcad | and listening? |
| 21:22.34 | pier | yes |
| 21:22.38 | pier | yes |
| 21:22.53 | pier | listen for client is checked |
| 21:23.22 | brlcad | hmm |
| 21:23.44 | brlcad | and mged isn't hung? |
| 21:23.48 | brlcad | i.e. menus work, etc |
| 21:23.49 | pier | I am beig trying again from a terminal |
| 21:24.09 | pier | yes .. mged working |
| 21:24.26 | pier | frame buffer 0 is on |
| 21:24.59 | pier | top doesn't reveal any buzz from fb-png |
| 21:25.03 | brlcad | what's the window size? |
| 21:25.14 | pier | ehmm |
| 21:25.30 | brlcad | oh! |
| 21:25.34 | pier | how do I know? |
| 21:25.38 | brlcad | framebuffer arg isn't right |
| 21:25.38 | pier | sorry |
| 21:25.39 | brlcad | -F0 |
| 21:26.14 | brlcad | still might not work, but :0 means localhost port 0 |
| 21:26.29 | brlcad | instead of just first port |
| 21:27.12 | pier | no activity... neither with :F0 |
| 21:27.21 | pier | -F0 |
| 21:27.33 | brlcad | try fb-png -F0 file.png |
| 21:27.40 | pier | png file created but empty |
| 21:28.03 | pier | already done... I'll try again |
| 21:28.24 | brlcad | it shouldn't take long |
| 21:28.27 | brlcad | see if the file created |
| 21:28.54 | pier | file's there zero bytes |
| 21:29.10 | pier | spooky... it always worked |
| 21:29.33 | pier | still frozen |
| 21:29.37 | brlcad | hmm.. |
| 21:29.56 | brlcad | can you raytrace inside mged? |
| 21:30.08 | pier | I have a fancy I messed something |
| 21:30.13 | pier | perfectly |
| 21:30.33 | pier | raytrace inside mged works fine |
| 21:30.59 | brlcad | what about raytracing directly to file |
| 21:31.10 | pier | gonna kill fb-png and rm png file created |
| 21:31.26 | brlcad | actually .. |
| 21:31.29 | brlcad | yeah do that then.. |
| 21:31.41 | brlcad | run this: fbserv 1 /dev/Xl & |
| 21:31.48 | pier | ok |
| 21:32.24 | pier | mged> exec fbserv 1 /dev/Xl & |
| 21:32.24 | pier | 13417 |
| 21:32.24 | pier | pkg_permserver: bind: errno=98 |
| 21:32.24 | pier | mged> |
| 21:32.33 | pier | from terminal? |
| 21:32.39 | brlcad | ahh |
| 21:32.46 | brlcad | mged's isn't on 0 |
| 21:32.54 | pier | lord |
| 21:33.03 | pier | and where? |
| 21:33.06 | brlcad | try fb-png -F1 file.png |
| 21:33.40 | pier | strike |
| 21:34.24 | pier | brlcad what's happening? |
| 21:34.31 | pier | it worked now |
| 21:34.33 | brlcad | strike as it didn't work? |
| 21:34.45 | pier | no no... it worked :) |
| 21:34.47 | brlcad | ahh |
| 21:34.48 | brlcad | good |
| 21:35.14 | brlcad | for whatever reason, when you started mged, it couldn't use port 0 |
| 21:35.25 | brlcad | so it tries the next available |
| 21:35.31 | pier | so it is using port 1 |
| 21:35.31 | brlcad | which was apparently 1 |
| 21:35.43 | brlcad | maybe you started that mged while another was running |
| 21:35.50 | pier | was making me crazy |
| 21:36.05 | pier | not really |
| 21:36.06 | brlcad | or you had an fbserv, or raytrace in progress to a lingering one.. various things |
| 21:36.16 | brlcad | for whatever reason, 0 was taken |
| 21:36.38 | brlcad | ps auxwww|grep mged maybe to make sure there's not a stale mged |
| 21:36.38 | pier | how can I find out what process is working on 0 |
| 21:36.48 | pier | ok |
| 21:37.12 | pier | pier@darkstar:~/brlcad/bin$ ps aux | grep mged |
| 21:37.12 | pier | pier 13358 0.2 2.4 19460 12628 ? S 22:13 0:02 mged |
| 21:37.13 | pier | pier@darkstar:~/brlcad/bin$ |
| 21:37.35 | pier | it looks like only one is running |
| 21:38.30 | brlcad | telnet localhost 5559 |
| 21:39.26 | brlcad | do you get: |
| 21:39.36 | brlcad | Trying 127.0.0.1... |
| 21:39.36 | brlcad | Connected to localhost (127.0.0.1). |
| 21:39.37 | brlcad | Escape character is '^]'. |
| 21:39.41 | brlcad | or something different |
| 21:39.49 | pier | exactly the same |
| 21:40.00 | brlcad | then there is a framebuffer listening :) |
| 21:40.10 | brlcad | somewhere |
| 21:40.50 | pier | is it a zombie process? |
| 21:40.59 | brlcad | you can disconnect from that with a ctrl-] |
| 21:41.11 | brlcad | then 'quit' |
| 21:41.28 | pier | done |
| 21:42.26 | brlcad | lsof | grep 55 |
| 21:42.49 | brlcad | lsof | grep 5559 |
| 21:45.14 | pier | fb-png 13207 pier txt REG 3,1 27867 205505 /home/pier/brlcad/rel-7.6.4/i686-pc-linux-gnu/bin/fb-png |
| 21:45.14 | pier | fb-png 13207 pier mem REG 3,1 6556762 200390 /usr/brlcad/rel-7.6.4/i686-pc-linux-gnu/lib/libtcl8.4.so.19.0.1 |
| 21:45.14 | pier | fb-png 13207 pier mem REG 3,1 33552 153295 /usr/X11R6/lib/libXi.so.6.0 |
| 21:45.14 | pier | fb-png 13207 pier 8u IPv4 718867 TCP *:5559 (LISTEN) |
| 21:45.14 | pier | fb-png 13207 pier 9u IPv4 759842 TCP localhost:37324->localhost:5559 (ESTABLISHED) |
| 21:45.32 | pier | mged is not running now |
| 21:45.39 | brlcad | ahh |
| 21:46.00 | pier | what is all that rubbish? |
| 21:46.08 | brlcad | you ran an fb-png -F:0 before running mged or at least before raytracing in mged |
| 21:46.23 | brlcad | so the fb-png starts up as a server |
| 21:46.35 | brlcad | expecting streaming input |
| 21:47.03 | brlcad | (that's so you can string together fb-png with pipes) |
| 21:47.12 | pier | I don't remember ... |
| 21:47.54 | brlcad | :) |
| 21:48.11 | brlcad | probably the very first thing you did before raytracing |
| 21:48.28 | brlcad | you can kill it (or find it and kill it |
| 21:48.44 | pier | ok |
| 21:49.48 | pier | fb-png is no longer running |
| 21:50.48 | pier | lsof | grep 55 doesn't return fb-png messages |
| 21:52.17 | pier | I'll try to give the command again |
| 21:56.08 | pier | incredible... again not working :,( |
| 21:58.35 | brlcad | lsof |grep LISTEN |
| 21:58.47 | pier | fb-png -F2 frs6.png worked now |
| 21:59.05 | pier | NULL |
| 22:00.14 | pier | lsof |grep LISTEN -> nothing |
| 22:00.29 | brlcad | eh, is mged running? |
| 22:00.35 | pier | yes |
| 22:01.19 | brlcad | hmm, then it should be listening |
| 22:01.23 | brlcad | framebuffer active? |
| 22:01.35 | brlcad | lsof | grep mged |
| 22:01.50 | pier | nuthin |
| 22:08.03 | pier | yes framebuffer active |
| 22:15.02 | brlcad | i'm not sure really, if lsof doesn't show it, it's not open -- that's a system tool |
| 22:15.25 | brlcad | "open file" listing |
| 22:15.57 | pier | ok I spotted it now |
| 22:16.22 | pier | gave just lsfo |
| 22:19.30 | pier | killed |
| 22:22.28 | pier | thank you very much! I have learnt something else. |
| 22:23.44 | pier | now can go to bed and rest... 2morrow legs at the gym for me too |
| 22:28.10 | brlcad | sounds great |
| 22:28.24 | brlcad | i should go row now that you mention.. |
| 22:28.31 | brlcad | cheers! |
| 22:29.28 | pier | night and thanks (rowing... fantastic) |
| 22:31.32 | *** part/#brlcad pier (n=pier@151.56.220.10) | |
| 22:31.35 | phcoder | brlcad: dinner? |
| 22:32.59 | brlcad | tonight?! |
| 22:33.03 | brlcad | it's it's .. |
| 22:33.09 | phcoder | friday |
| 22:33.15 | phcoder | yes. it is. |
| 22:33.22 | brlcad | start of the new season for sg1, atlantis, bsg :) |
| 22:33.41 | phcoder | we have that channel, for now. |
| 22:33.47 | phcoder | all on tonight? |
| 22:33.51 | phcoder | one after the other? |
| 22:33.58 | brlcad | yup |
| 22:34.05 | phcoder | interesting. come over. |
| 22:34.14 | brlcad | heh |
| 22:34.24 | brlcad | so.. tiny :) |
| 22:35.25 | phcoder | i just said that to nettie: he probably will complain about the small screen ;-) |
| 22:35.56 | brlcad | hehe |
| 22:35.58 | phcoder | too bad i can't pipe TV to my 30 in |
| 22:36.06 | brlcad | seriously, that'd be sweet |
| 22:36.18 | phcoder | oh yes. i bet I can get a card for it... hmmmmmmm |
| 22:36.36 | brlcad | they used to make 1 card and 1 usb device with crappy quality |
| 22:36.43 | phcoder | for os x? |
| 22:36.52 | phcoder | maybe hauppage has one |
| 22:36.54 | brlcad | haven't looked in months though .. i've wanted that for a long time |
| 22:37.05 | phcoder | so - comin over? |
| 22:37.17 | brlcad | easy to find the cards, hard to find os x supported one |
| 22:37.26 | phcoder | yeah |
| 22:38.39 | brlcad | nah, not tonight .. going to gym again for a lil bit then showtime in my dungeon |
| 22:40.40 | *** join/#brlcad coderwife (n=nettie@pcp0011650294pcs.aberdn01.md.comcast.net) | |
| 22:42.25 | phcoder | fine |
| 22:42.41 | phcoder | we'll see what coderwife has to say about that |
| 23:01.24 | *** part/#brlcad coderwife (n=nettie@pcp0011650294pcs.aberdn01.md.comcast.net) | |
| 23:03.55 | ``Erik | heh |
| 23:04.01 | ``Erik | starts at 8, scifi... |
| 23:05.13 | phcoder | buh bye |
| 00:20.20 | ``Erik | *yawn* |
| 02:24.12 | pra5ad | got back just in time |
| 02:24.13 | pra5ad | yay |
| 03:57.26 | pra5ad | daaamn what an ep =) |
| 04:52.01 | *** join/#brlcad DTRemenak (n=DTRemena@DHCP-170-143.caltech.edu) | |
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| 21:27.09 | tegtmeye | er |
| 22:23.56 | *** join/#brlcad PrezKennedy (n=Apathy@pcp010175pcs.dover01.de.comcast.net) | |
| 22:34.25 | PrezKennedy | 4.0 GPA this semester!!! |
| 23:00.59 | *** join/#brlcad ibot_ (i=ibot@pdpc/supporter/active/TimRiker/bot/apt) | |
| 23:00.59 | *** topic/#brlcad is http://brlcad.org/ || BRL-CAD is now Free Software! || BRL-CAD Windows port has been merged to HEAD, not yet stable yet || December/January is a unified iteration to allow time for holidays || Archer is now on head, kick the tires, report any bugs | |
| 23:53.37 | *** join/#brlcad ibot (i=ibot@rikers.org) | |
| 23:53.38 | *** topic/#brlcad is http://brlcad.org/ || BRL-CAD is now Free Software! || BRL-CAD Windows port has been merged to HEAD, not yet stable yet || December/January is a unified iteration to allow time for holidays || Archer is now on head, kick the tires, report any bugs | |
| 23:57.29 | *** join/#brlcad ibot (i=ibot@pdpc/supporter/active/TimRiker/bot/apt) | |
| 23:57.29 | *** topic/#brlcad is http://brlcad.org/ || BRL-CAD is now Free Software! || BRL-CAD Windows port has been merged to HEAD, not yet stable yet || December/January is a unified iteration to allow time for holidays || Archer is now on head, kick the tires, report any bugs | |
| 23:59.33 | *** join/#brlcad ibot (i=ibot@pdpc/supporter/active/TimRiker/bot/apt) | |
| 23:59.33 | *** topic/#brlcad is http://brlcad.org/ || BRL-CAD is now Free Software! || BRL-CAD Windows port has been merged to HEAD, not yet stable yet || December/January is a unified iteration to allow time for holidays || Archer is now on head, kick the tires, report any bugs | |
| 00:22.05 | *** join/#brlcad ibot (i=ibot@rikers.org) | |
| 00:22.05 | *** topic/#brlcad is http://brlcad.org/ || BRL-CAD is now Free Software! || BRL-CAD Windows port has been merged to HEAD, not yet stable yet || December/January is a unified iteration to allow time for holidays || Archer is now on head, kick the tires, report any bugs | |
| 00:28.34 | *** join/#brlcad ibot (i=ibot@pdpc/supporter/active/TimRiker/bot/apt) | |
| 00:28.34 | *** topic/#brlcad is http://brlcad.org/ || BRL-CAD is now Free Software! || BRL-CAD Windows port has been merged to HEAD, not yet stable yet || December/January is a unified iteration to allow time for holidays || Archer is now on head, kick the tires, report any bugs | |
| 01:21.07 | PrezKennedy | ill reconsider a gov't job when our fine senators and representatives and GWB have to sit through ethics training like the rest of us |
| 01:41.29 | pra5ad | hear hear |
| 02:04.22 | tegtmeye | yo |
| 02:26.58 | *** join/#brlcad AchiestDragon (n=dave@whipy.demon.co.uk) | |
| 02:40.49 | pra5ad | sup mike |
| 02:48.57 | tegtmeye | hows the engine? |
| 03:14.42 | pra5ad | slow progress |
| 03:14.53 | pra5ad | most of the time spent on 'OO' design |
| 03:14.57 | pra5ad | =( |
| 03:28.01 | *** join/#brlcad mahesh (n=mahesh@12-217-228-235.client.mchsi.com) | |
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| 18:34.21 | *** mode/#brlcad [+o learner] by ChanServ | |
| 19:09.25 | *** join/#brlcad mahesh (n=mahesh@12-217-228-235.client.mchsi.com) | |
| 19:09.44 | mahesh | hi Sean |
| 19:10.01 | brlcad | howdy mahesh |
| 19:10.03 | brlcad | been a while |
| 19:10.09 | mahesh | yeah |
| 19:10.14 | brlcad | at least a while since you've spoken :) |
| 19:10.20 | mahesh | true |
| 19:10.28 | mahesh | as usual, had few questions |
| 19:10.32 | brlcad | how's the vacation? |
| 19:10.44 | mahesh | its good....enjoying |
| 19:11.00 | brlcad | that's good |
| 19:11.25 | mahesh | howz yours? |
| 19:12.27 | clock_ | brlcad: hi |
| 19:12.50 | brlcad | no vacation here yet, but the holidays were nice |
| 19:12.54 | brlcad | hi clock_ |
| 19:14.40 | mahesh | nice |
| 19:16.14 | mahesh | there is rt_shootray defined in shoot.c and vshoot.c |
| 19:16.44 | brlcad | yes, no need to worry about the latter |
| 19:17.03 | brlcad | that's for vectorized computation |
| 19:17.24 | mahesh | oh ok. my code currently breaks in rt_shootray |
| 19:17.35 | mahesh | i am trying to figure out why exactly that is happening |
| 19:17.44 | brlcad | backtrace? |
| 19:18.01 | mahesh | as of now, all the processors gets a certain chunk of pixel |
| 19:18.16 | mahesh | then when everyone tries to call rt_shootray |
| 19:18.33 | brlcad | how do they all get the geometry? |
| 19:18.34 | mahesh | the initiator node works fine but others blow up |
| 19:18.40 | mahesh | how do i backtrace? |
| 19:18.51 | brlcad | ever used gdb? |
| 19:19.11 | mahesh | yeah |
| 19:19.47 | brlcad | can run it in gdb to see where it halts, not sure how that'll work on the remote nodes though |
| 19:20.09 | brlcad | if you can get the remote to generate a core file, you could get a backtrace with that |
| 19:20.38 | brlcad | how'd you determine it was in rt_shootray to begin with? |
| 19:21.40 | mahesh | pretty ugly way but it works. i just used a print statement just before the call to rt_shootray and a statement after the function call. |
| 19:22.09 | mahesh | so all the nodes print the first statement |
| 19:23.10 | brlcad | hehe |
| 19:23.21 | brlcad | so "somewhere" inside of rt_shootray() :) |
| 19:23.59 | mahesh | yeah |
| 19:24.43 | brlcad | how are you invoking rt? |
| 19:24.54 | brlcad | there are debug flags you can pass at runtime |
| 19:25.01 | brlcad | that will cause loads of output |
| 19:26.08 | mahesh | mpirun -np <no. of processors> ./rt model.g <objects> |
| 19:26.22 | brlcad | the -x parameter for starters, try -x 1 |
| 19:27.21 | mahesh | ok |
| 19:27.58 | brlcad | there are bit fields defined in include/raytrace.h for DEBUG_* -- pass that to -x to get various sorts of debug output |
| 19:29.24 | brlcad | 1 is to print debug information about calls to rt_shootray() ;) |
| 19:29.43 | brlcad | 15 should be "everything" related to shotlining (first four bits) |
| 19:29.44 | mahesh | oh great. i wanted exactly that |
| 19:30.03 | brlcad | #define DEBUG_ALLRAYS 0x00000001 /* 1 Print calls to rt_shootray() */ |
| 19:30.04 | brlcad | #define DEBUG_ALLHITS 0x00000002 /* 2 Print partitions passed to a_hit() */ |
| 19:30.06 | brlcad | #define DEBUG_SHOOT 0x00000004 /* 3 Info about rt_shootray() processing */ |
| 19:30.09 | brlcad | #define DEBUG_INSTANCE 0x00000008 /* 4 regionid instance revectoring */ |
| 19:30.48 | brlcad | add up the values you want and that should be what you can provide to -x |
| 19:30.54 | mahesh | got it |
| 19:33.53 | CIA-5 | BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/gtools/g_transfer.c: add an optional geometry argument for specifying what geometry to send (default is all); add a help option and make short options case insensitive |
| 19:46.04 | learner | big legs aren't going to help me bench next month |
| 19:46.29 | learner | neither will writing into the wrong window ;) |
| 21:19.07 | *** part/#brlcad pier (n=pier@151.56.220.10) | |
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| 06:00.41 | *** topic/#brlcad is http://brlcad.org/ || BRL-CAD is now Free Software! || BRL-CAD Windows port has been merged to HEAD, not yet stable yet || December/January is a unified iteration to allow time for holidays || Archer is now on head, kick the tires, report any bugs | |
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| 10:04.56 | clock__ | brlcad: funny comic strip about ronja -> http://ronja.twibright.com/shamrock.png |
| 10:05.04 | clock__ | brlcad: do you have comic strip about brlcad? :) |
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| 14:20.43 | brlcad | clock__: heh, maybe but none come to mind |
| 14:23.02 | clock__ | brlcad: something with m1a1 abrams :) |
| 14:24.00 | ``Erik | o.O |
| 17:08.34 | *** join/#brlcad ibot (i=ibot@rikers.org) | |
| 17:08.34 | *** topic/#brlcad is http://brlcad.org/ || BRL-CAD is now Free Software! || BRL-CAD Windows port has been merged to HEAD, not yet stable yet || December/January is a unified iteration to allow time for holidays || Archer is now on head, kick the tires, report any bugs | |
| 17:45.52 | CIA-5 | BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/gtools/g_transfer.c: |
| 17:45.52 | CIA-5 | BRL-CAD: commit a version that walks the specified geometry both with db_walk_tree() and |
| 17:45.52 | CIA-5 | BRL-CAD: db_functree(). db_functree was ultimately considerably more simple for this |
| 17:45.52 | CIA-5 | BRL-CAD: exercise, but useful to see what was provided with db_walk_tree and the |
| 17:45.52 | CIA-5 | BRL-CAD: differences. add support to run the client either passing all geometry or just a |
| 17:45.53 | CIA-5 | BRL-CAD: subset (hence the subtree walking) |
| 17:46.29 | *** join/#brlcad kaol (n=kari@sammakko.yok.utu.fi) | |
| 17:51.51 | clock__ | brlcad: what would you do if someone posted lots of bugreports, which would be technically correct, but would write them in a way you wouldn't like, were emotionally loaded and critical to you or the project? |
| 17:52.05 | clock__ | brlcad: would you ban the poster with a message "banned for trolling"? |
| 17:56.07 | CIA-5 | BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/gtools/g_transfer.c: get rid of the db_walk_tree method since db_functree is considerably more simple for this purpose. stash the server details into our data struct. |
| 17:56.22 | brlcad | clock__: it really would depend on the language and intent |
| 17:57.04 | brlcad | if the intent was to cause trouble, they would probably either be blocked from posting or reported for abuse |
| 17:57.50 | brlcad | if they were just upset of some issue, it would get disregarded and treated like any other report |
| 17:58.24 | brlcad | more likely it would get closed/unresolved if there was insufficient details to reproduce the problem |
| 18:02.45 | clock__ | brlcad: it would be a short proposal of particular change in documentation, with lots of text why it's important which would include emotionally charged parable that would strongly criticize the current state |
| 18:06.02 | clock__ | brlcad: then you have different approach than gentoo ;-) |
| 18:09.33 | *** join/#brlcad toresbe (i=tsb@developer.skolelinux.no) | |
| 18:10.57 | toresbe | hey |
| 18:11.19 | toresbe | hmm. |
| 18:11.21 | toresbe | bye. |
| 18:11.22 | *** part/#brlcad toresbe (i=tsb@developer.skolelinux.no) | |
| 18:26.48 | kaol | hello. I'm going to package brlcad for Debian. wish me luck. ;-) |
| 18:28.28 | brlcad | excellent |
| 18:29.37 | brlcad | kaol: there was a guy that made a package for Debian back 6+ months for 7.6.0 |
| 18:30.27 | brlcad | most of the stuff is outdated now or changed (e.g. dual-licensed docs) considerably, but it might be a starting point http://scientificcomputing.net/debian/packages/brlcad/ |
| 18:30.56 | brlcad | plus wasn't too fond of the "install everything into /usr/share/brlcad part" |
| 18:31.04 | brlcad | but it was a good first stab |
| 18:31.37 | brlcad | still looking for someone interested enough to become the debian sponsor/maintainer for us, though -- I don't keep debian systems on hand readily enough myself |
| 18:31.57 | kaol | hmm. I didn't see anything about that in the request for package bug report. |
| 18:32.31 | brlcad | hmm.. i don't remember knowing that there was a request for package report ;) |
| 18:32.40 | kaol | thanks for the pointer, I'll see if there's anything I can use |
| 18:32.48 | kaol | http://bugs.debian.org/289684 |
| 18:33.40 | brlcad | thanks for the link, good to know |
| 19:14.17 | *** join/#brlcad PrezKennedy (n=Apathy@pcp010175pcs.dover01.de.comcast.net) | |
| 19:33.15 | ``Erik | grar, arms tightening up o.O |
| 19:42.52 | kaol | I've packaged a few apps from scratch and adopted a couple too. But I've done nothing of this scale yet. |
| 19:44.02 | ``Erik | is there a good webpage describing the process? debian packaging for dummies? |
| 19:45.08 | ``Erik | ahhh, the power of local.google :) with the satallite view, I can actually find the trail I walk on |
| 19:47.45 | kaol | there's the new maintainer's guide (http://www.us.debian.org/doc/maint-guide/) |
| 19:48.13 | kaol | developer's reference and the policy are the major references |
| 19:54.29 | *** join/#brlcad clock_ (n=clock@84-72-95-160.dclient.hispeed.ch) | |
| 19:55.26 | *** join/#brlcad clock_ (n=clock@84-72-95-160.dclient.hispeed.ch) | |
| 19:57.07 | brlcad | we used to have automated rpm generation, there's a script stub in sh/ but i'd be surprised if it didn't need tweaking |
| 20:04.05 | ``Erik | hm, I do mine in Makefile.am with configure generating an rpm.spec from rpm.spec.in |
| 20:04.23 | ``Erik | I thought I strapped that into brlcad when I converted it to automake |
| 20:06.39 | brlcad | wow |
| 20:06.51 | brlcad | so prasad was whining, I bet |
| 20:06.58 | brlcad | his jelly legs |
| 20:11.35 | ``Erik | huh? heh, I'm not at the office, rdo |
| 20:11.54 | ``Erik | I went to the 'clubhouse' where I live, then walked the greenway |
| 20:12.00 | brlcad | ahh |
| 20:12.08 | ``Erik | <-- boggled he could get 130 up |
| 20:12.21 | brlcad | hehe |
| 20:12.26 | brlcad | already passed up pra5ad |
| 20:12.57 | ``Erik | heh |
| 20:13.00 | ``Erik | and he's bigger than me |
| 20:13.00 | ``Erik | pheer |
| 20:13.04 | ``Erik | what's he pushing? |
| 20:13.18 | ``Erik | <-- did two sets of 70, a set of 100, then 130 once, is a pussy |
| 20:14.19 | brlcad | maybe about the same, last time was about 3 sets of 10x95 iirc |
| 20:14.35 | brlcad | he's still learning his balance |
| 20:14.41 | brlcad | but making progress |
| 20:15.00 | ``Erik | can't stick him in a universal until he gets some tone? |
| 20:15.36 | brlcad | doing that too |
| 20:17.19 | ``Erik | http://www.mypyramidtracker.gov/ is interesting |
| 20:17.59 | brlcad | heh, i read about that in one of my lifting mags just last night |
| 20:18.43 | ``Erik | the ui is rough, but it's interesting |
| 20:19.08 | ``Erik | I'm gonna try to use it to help me figure out what to eat |
| 20:19.31 | ``Erik | my diet of burgers, pizza, bratwurst, and eggs is probably not entirely healthy |
| 20:19.35 | ``Erik | :) |
| 20:20.51 | ``Erik | you bastards and your gym trips, tricking me from the pure path of chuck and ed o.O |
| 20:24.03 | archivist | geeks and programmers arnt supposed to exercise afaik |
| 20:26.22 | brlcad | heh |
| 20:43.04 | ``Erik | that's an odd stereotype |
| 20:43.21 | ``Erik | we don't play team sports, but we exercise... |
| 20:43.28 | phcoder | yay, Erik, went to the gym, eh? |
| 20:43.33 | ``Erik | ayup |
| 20:43.41 | ``Erik | had to search for my proxy card, heh |
| 20:43.45 | ``Erik | been so long since I've gone |
| 20:43.50 | phcoder | keep it up. don't listen to that stuff about programmers not exercising ;-) |
| 20:44.13 | phcoder | go every day with us... |
| 20:44.28 | ``Erik | in the middle of the day? no way, that's more of a late afternoon activity |
| 20:44.40 | phcoder | it's not too bad... |
| 20:45.01 | ``Erik | plus, I'm trying to get fat, so I have to keep eating 2000 kcal greaseslop at lunch |
| 20:45.15 | phcoder | well, it won't take too long then |
| 20:47.10 | brlcad | heh, yet |
| 22:42.35 | *** join/#brlcad tegtmeye (n=803f2007@bz.bzflag.bz) | |
| 22:42.53 | tegtmeye | brlcad,, you around? |
| 22:49.26 | brlcad | occasionally |
| 22:55.29 | tegtmeye | having some issues with shooting rays on brlcad |
| 22:56.16 | brlcad | i have the example extracting external forms of the geometry for transport now in the example app if you're interested |
| 22:56.19 | tegtmeye | in application str, the file has... |
| 22:56.25 | tegtmeye | a_ray.r_dirUNIT VECTOR with direction to fire in (dir cosines) |
| 22:56.34 | tegtmeye | big yep! |
| 22:56.45 | tegtmeye | ? is, what is dir cosines? |
| 22:57.27 | tegtmeye | is the code in cvs? |
| 22:57.32 | brlcad | yeah |
| 22:57.48 | brlcad | still got some more to put into it, but it shows the tree walking and getting external |
| 22:58.01 | tegtmeye | sweet! |
| 22:58.14 | brlcad | i still have to have the client form the connection, send to remote, and reform an in-memory-only .g |
| 23:03.22 | ``Erik | *burp* |
| 23:05.03 | tegtmeye | ny idea on the cosines? |
| 23:07.19 | *** join/#brlcad polyspin (n=butler@bz.bzflag.bz) | |
| 23:07.23 | brlcad | not sure what's mean by the dir cosigns comment |
| 23:07.25 | brlcad | maybe he does |
| 23:07.44 | tegtmeye | who? |
| 23:07.59 | brlcad | the one that just joined ;) |
| 23:08.10 | polyspin | evening all |
| 23:08.21 | brlcad | howdy |
| 23:08.42 | polyspin | What's this about dir cosines? |
| 23:08.51 | brlcad | polyspin: a_ray.r_dirIUNIT VECTOR with direction to fire in (dir cosines) |
| 23:09.03 | brlcad | app structure, the ray |
| 23:11.07 | polyspin | This looks like a lame attempt at saying the vector is/will-be a unit length vector |
| 23:11.21 | CIA-5 | BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/gtools/g_transfer.c: instead of two separate hook funcs, just use send_to_server() for both the specified geometry case and the non-specified geometry case. |
| 23:11.53 | brlcad | er, ray structure, not app |
| 23:12.09 | polyspin | If the vector is unit length, then the tuple gives the cosines of the angles in each of X, Y, Z |
| 23:12.19 | polyspin | raytrace.h right? |
| 23:12.27 | brlcad | yeah, it's a comment for the structure |
| 23:12.28 | tegtmeye | yea |
| 23:13.35 | polyspin | So for example, a vector at exactly 45deg from each axis would be 0.707, 0.707, 0.707 |
| 23:13.51 | tegtmeye | ahhhh.... |
| 23:13.53 | polyspin | Which happens to be 0.707 = cos(45) |
| 23:16.04 | ``Erik | heh |
| 23:16.10 | tegtmeye | cos 270 == cos 90 == 0 |
| 23:16.28 | tegtmeye | how do you define which way your looking on x axis? |
| 23:16.42 | tegtmeye | I'm a little lost |
| 23:16.49 | polyspin | The sign on the value. |
| 23:17.02 | tegtmeye | +0 vs -0 ?? |
| 23:17.07 | polyspin | Again, it's really just a unit length vector. Mike M was trying to be cute. |
| 23:17.46 | *** join/#brlcad polyspin (n=butler@bz.bzflag.bz) | |
| 23:18.27 | polyspin | oops. Back again |
| 23:30.24 | polyspin | brlcad: Any idea when head will build again? |
| 23:51.28 | brlcad | oop |
| 23:51.30 | brlcad | he left |
| 23:53.36 | ``Erik | heh |
| 23:54.21 | pra5ad | the pain |
| 23:54.25 | pra5ad | =( |
| 23:54.28 | ``Erik | the puss |
| 23:54.58 | ``Erik | me, too |
| 23:56.53 | pra5ad | did either of u goto the 'one million particle particle system' presentation at siggraph? |
| 23:57.09 | brlcad | sounds familiar |
| 23:57.20 | brlcad | done on the card iirc? |
| 23:57.27 | pra5ad | yea |
| 23:57.36 | pra5ad | 1024^2 texture + fragment shader |
| 23:58.21 | pra5ad | impractical in real world use |
| 23:58.26 | pra5ad | but impressive nonetheless |
| 23:58.38 | pra5ad | s/impressive/ingenious/ |
| 23:58.47 | pra5ad | :o |
| 23:59.45 | archivist | what else has the bot up its sleeve |
| 23:59.45 | pra5ad | woops |
| 23:59.51 | pra5ad | twas at gdc |
| 00:00.56 | brlcad | siggrah had it too |
| 00:01.26 | brlcad | woot, surface continues on sci fi |
| 00:07.17 | pra5ad | ``Erik, uve seen ghost in the shell right? |
| 00:07.59 | ``Erik | yes |
| 00:08.41 | pra5ad | so, ive upgraded my 'bot' idea to build a fuchikoma (when Twingy gets his shiznitz) |
| 00:08.43 | pra5ad | =) |
| 00:09.54 | pra5ad | speaking of gits, i gotta order stand alone complex 1&2 |
| 00:15.01 | pra5ad | http://img72.imageshack.us/img72/7648/wavetachikoma2pc.jpg |
| 00:15.04 | pra5ad | heh plan for 1:1 |
| 04:02.00 | *** join/#brlcad DTRemenak (n=DTRemena@DHCP-170-143.caltech.edu) | |
| 04:31.56 | fenn | weird i just watched gits2 last night |
| 04:32.18 | fenn | too much cgi, but oh well |
| 05:12.05 | CIA-5 | BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/gtools/g_transfer.c: libpkg is pretty cool. open a connnection from the client to the server using a really simple handshake protocol. client sends HELO, server listens for that HELO to distinguish valid clients from bogus connnections. |
| 07:10.50 | CIA-5 | BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/gtools/g_transfer.c: yes, libpkg does rock. send the geometry to the server properly specifying callbacks for the different packet types. server gets a simple processing loop to read in the data and handle the packets. |
| 07:15.36 | *** join/#brlcad CIA-5 (i=cia@flapjack.navi.cx) [NETSPLIT VICTIM] | |
| 07:29.52 | CIA-5 | BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/gtools/g_transfer.c: free our buffers |
| 09:10.54 | *** join/#brlcad clock_ (n=clock@zux221-122-143.adsl.green.ch) | |
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| 13:06.21 | ``Erik | 1/det |
| 13:24.26 | brlcad | 2x/dt |
| 13:59.02 | ``Erik | heh |
| 13:59.34 | ``Erik | that was a 1 in my buffer (probably from cmd+1 with no window #1), then an attempt at "/det", tardmonkey :D |
| 14:16.49 | *** join/#brlcad CIA-2 (i=cia@flapjack.navi.cx) | |
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| 16:17.00 | *** join/#brlcad cad931 (n=57010f41@bz.bzflag.bz) | |
| 16:18.42 | cad931 | hi all |
| 18:09.03 | *** join/#brlcad ibot (i=ibot@pdpc/supporter/active/TimRiker/bot/apt) | |
| 18:09.03 | *** topic/#brlcad is http://brlcad.org/ || BRL-CAD is now Free Software! || BRL-CAD Windows port has been merged to HEAD, not yet stable yet || December/January is a unified iteration to allow time for holidays || Archer is now on head, kick the tires, report any bugs | |
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| 22:34.58 | CIA-2 | BRL-CAD: 03bob1961 * 10brlcad/src/tclscripts/archer/CombEditFrame.tcl: Add better support for boolean editing and shader editing. More mods to follow. |
| 22:36.27 | CIA-2 | BRL-CAD: 03bob1961 * 10brlcad/src/tclscripts/archer/ShaderEdit.tcl: Initial check-in |
| 22:38.34 | CIA-2 | BRL-CAD: 03bob1961 * 10brlcad/src/tclscripts/archer/Archer.tcl: Add the following methods: packTree, unpackTree and unpackTreeGuts |
| 22:39.40 | CIA-2 | BRL-CAD: 03bob1961 * 10brlcad/src/tclscripts/archer/tclIndex: Update index |
| 22:41.11 | CIA-2 | BRL-CAD: 03bob1961 * 10brlcad/src/tclscripts/archer/GeometryEditFrame.tcl: Mods to NOT use Scrolledframe |
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| 01:29.57 | ``Erik | o.O |
| 01:30.17 | ``Erik | <-- munches his frozen food |
| 01:30.19 | ``Erik | where is it? |
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| 03:53.43 | brlcad | ``Erik: across from the Walmart on 40 |
| 04:09.22 | pra5ad | is there a good oss quicken/m$ money variant? |
| 04:09.53 | brlcad | emacs |
| 04:36.50 | justin_ | bc |
| 04:46.21 | ``Erik | gnucash |
| 05:02.14 | phcoder | is that what you use justin_? |
| 05:07.42 | *** join/#brlcad phcoder_ (n=jlowens@pcp0011650294pcs.aberdn01.md.comcast.net) | |
| 05:10.56 | Maloeran | "gnucash" sure has an interesting ring to it |
| 05:11.30 | phcoder_ | g'night all |
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| 09:58.15 | giuSerpe | hi all |
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| 15:34.32 | CIA-4 | BRL-CAD: 03bob1961 * 10brlcad/src/tclscripts/archer/Archer.tcl: The edit panels are no longer using Scrolledframes. Modify _select_node method to always update the edit panel. _reset_edit no longer calls _refresh_tree |
| 16:35.01 | CIA-4 | BRL-CAD: 03bob1961 * 10brlcad/src/tclscripts/archer/ShaderEdit.tcl: Arrange to call the shader changed callback when editing the shader form. |
| 16:37.03 | CIA-4 | BRL-CAD: 03bob1961 * 10brlcad/src/tclscripts/archer/Archer.tcl: Modify the _apply_edit method to not call _refresh_tree. |
| 17:19.22 | *** join/#brlcad pier (n=pier@151.56.239.49) | |
| 17:31.40 | pier | Hi everybody |
| 17:34.52 | pier | I wondered if anyone could explain, or provide the place where to find some more detailed information about instanceing rather then copying a comb group pf objects in brlcad. Thanks :) |
| 17:37.44 | pier | sorry! I meant referencing objects |
| 18:13.21 | brlcad | pier: sure |
| 18:15.11 | pier | hi brlcad |
| 18:15.24 | clock_ | brlcad: I would like to know as well |
| 18:15.24 | pier | is the doms over? |
| 18:15.38 | clock_ | brlcad: I always do it in a way from which brlcad segfaults |
| 18:16.14 | brlcad | clock_: your method is specifically a bug ;) |
| 18:16.28 | brlcad | multiply referencing the same object in one combination |
| 18:17.00 | brlcad | should work, but isn't common practice and apparently mged isn't behaving right when you do that (though raytracing has no problem with it) |
| 18:17.04 | clock_ | brlcad: is my method a bug of itself or is my method a bug of brlcad? |
| 18:17.16 | clock_ | brlcad: but how should I do it? |
| 18:17.49 | clock_ | brlcad: can you propose another method that is as simple as the one I use, and doesn't segfault mged? |
| 18:17.56 | clock_ | brlcad: btw is this segfault already fixed? |
| 18:19.11 | brlcad | clock_: i don't think your method is a bug in itself, seems reasonable to union an object N times and apply a different matrix to each |
| 18:19.23 | brlcad | the bug is just an assumption that mged is making |
| 18:19.29 | brlcad | yet the libraries are "doing the right thing" |
| 18:19.40 | brlcad | hence why rt is right |
| 18:19.41 | clock_ | brlcad: so it isn't fixed yet? |
| 18:19.50 | clock_ | brlcad: do you have a bugreport from me about the bug? |
| 18:19.56 | brlcad | yes, I do |
| 18:20.03 | brlcad | it's not fixed yet |
| 18:20.13 | brlcad | haven't tracked it down in mged |
| 18:20.16 | clock_ | brlcad: do you plan to fix it? |
| 18:20.21 | brlcad | yes |
| 18:20.22 | clock_ | brlcad: can you reproduce it? |
| 18:20.26 | brlcad | yes |
| 18:20.50 | clock_ | hmm I could fix it myself |
| 18:20.53 | clock_ | if I had time |
| 18:22.04 | clock_ | if it's not a delayed memory corruption then it's probably trivial to fix |
| 18:23.08 | brlcad | the problem itself is pretty easy to understand, not so sure about the easiest way to fix |
| 18:23.49 | brlcad | when you go to apply a matrix, mged doesn't/didn't keep track of which /path/to/geometry you selected when you had multiple 'geometry' in your 'to' object |
| 18:23.58 | brlcad | so it always applies to the first |
| 18:24.10 | brlcad | eventually, that causes something to go awry in the display manager iirc |
| 18:25.15 | brlcad | should just be a matter of adding an index or reference ID so you know which instance you're referring to |
| 18:26.19 | brlcad | pier: to answer your question, place the objects you want to reference in a combination, and simply refer to that combination by name in other places |
| 18:26.53 | brlcad | every time you use an object in a combination/region, it's by named reference |
| 18:27.15 | pier | say I made a gusset with several holes and made a region of it |
| 18:27.16 | brlcad | it's only when you create a shallow or deep copy that something becomes duplicated |
| 18:27.26 | brlcad | aha.. heh |
| 18:27.32 | brlcad | same case as what clock was trying ;) |
| 18:28.04 | pier | and I need 16 of them |
| 18:28.12 | brlcad | bizzare that we never ran into that problem here |
| 18:28.49 | brlcad | pier, basically you make a template combination for a single hole |
| 18:29.01 | pier | cp-ing all the holes and plates looks the hard way to get the whole thing done |
| 18:30.08 | pier | ... how do I do that? |
| 18:30.17 | pier | I mean a template |
| 18:30.24 | brlcad | you shouldn't need to copy the whole thing, you just need to copy the one combination so you have unique names |
| 18:30.49 | pier | really??? Is it as simple as that? |
| 18:30.50 | brlcad | to make a "template", it's just a regular combination |
| 18:31.09 | pier | I'll try it right away |
| 18:31.10 | brlcad | even if you have to wrap one combination into another to abstract it |
| 18:31.26 | brlcad | then copy that wrapper, move it wherever |
| 18:31.33 | pier | will a region do? |
| 18:31.38 | pier | as well |
| 18:31.47 | brlcad | it's SUPPOSED to work without needing unique names, but clock_ did find a bug in that regard |
| 18:31.55 | brlcad | a region will work just as well |
| 18:32.03 | brlcad | though you will have to be careful of overlaps |
| 18:32.29 | brlcad | remember that a region is meant to distinguish something that occupies physical space |
| 18:32.44 | pier | at the moment I drew a plate and extruded it |
| 18:32.45 | brlcad | whereas a combination is just a grouping |
| 18:32.54 | pier | ok I got it |
| 18:33.17 | brlcad | in pro/e or unigraphics lingo -- a brl-cad region is a part |
| 18:33.35 | brlcad | combinations below a region are just csg operations |
| 18:33.43 | pier | ... used to use solid edge / works |
| 18:33.44 | brlcad | combinations above a region would be an assembly |
| 18:34.02 | brlcad | same thing in solidworks |
| 18:34.14 | pier | ok |
| 18:34.48 | pier | so making cp piastra1.r piastra2.r is supposed to work |
| 18:34.53 | brlcad | i only mention it as most people don't correctly understand combinations for a while ;) |
| 18:35.00 | brlcad | sure |
| 18:35.21 | brlcad | that will only copy the references in piastra1.r |
| 18:35.33 | brlcad | so piastra2.r is referencing the same objects |
| 18:36.21 | brlcad | there's a different cp to make a deep copy that actually creates copies of everything underneath piastra1.r |
| 18:36.46 | pier | ok done.. now the point is ..how do I move the second? |
| 18:36.59 | brlcad | apply a matrix to it |
| 18:37.10 | pier | lord I'm so slow.. |
| 18:37.19 | brlcad | gui method, matrix edit on edit menu |
| 18:37.36 | brlcad | select any of the primitives in the list that are in the copy |
| 18:37.37 | pier | ok I'll go back to the man page to see what a matrix is... |
| 18:38.13 | brlcad | no need |
| 18:38.33 | brlcad | it's a mathematical matrix |
| 18:38.45 | brlcad | that basically describes how to correctly orient and position the object |
| 18:38.49 | brlcad | among other things |
| 18:39.10 | pier | in the menu appears the list of all the sigle shapes |
| 18:39.12 | brlcad | so every time you rotate something, or move it, or scale it, etc .. that's a change to some matrix |
| 18:39.20 | brlcad | yes |
| 18:39.28 | brlcad | pick any of them that say piastra2.r |
| 18:39.36 | brlcad | then you'll get a second menu |
| 18:39.42 | brlcad | pick piastra2.r |
| 18:40.07 | brlcad | then any edit operation will apply directly to piastra2.r |
| 18:40.08 | pier | that's why I got to a halt .... I was afraid of clicking on a single voice and doing a mess of it |
| 18:40.25 | brlcad | no danger yet :) |
| 18:40.36 | brlcad | you can always 'reject' when you're in edit mode |
| 18:41.18 | pier | there's no region... in the list |
| 18:41.19 | brlcad | so if you think you screwed up, try typeing the 'reject' command into the cmd window, or select Reject on the edit menu (only necessary when you're in edit mode) |
| 18:41.50 | brlcad | er, what's your list? |
| 18:42.23 | pier | clicking menu->matrix sel |
| 18:42.30 | brlcad | it should be a list like /piastra2.r/someobject/blah /piastra2.r/someobject2/blah /piastra1.r/someobject/blah /piastra1.r/someobject2.blah |
| 18:42.42 | *** join/#brlcad Guu (i=guu@myth.gibbscam.com) | |
| 18:42.49 | pier | yep |
| 18:43.00 | pier | shapes |
| 18:43.16 | brlcad | yes, pick _any_ that say piastra2.r |
| 18:43.19 | pier | and extruded object |
| 18:43.21 | pier | ok |
| 18:43.37 | brlcad | i.e. your copy that you want to move |
| 18:43.44 | pier | ok I double clicked and blam a second menu |
| 18:44.05 | brlcad | then on the next list, pick piastra2.r if that's what you want to move |
| 18:44.31 | pier | ok ok |
| 18:44.33 | brlcad | note that the others in the list would let you apply a transformation to something inside piastra2.r without affecting piastra1.r too |
| 18:44.42 | pier | now it's smooth |
| 18:45.12 | brlcad | yes, the interface is a little counter-intuitive since you select a primitive first |
| 18:45.24 | pier | Lord I made hundreds of damned holes in this machine |
| 18:45.26 | brlcad | there was a reason for it a long time ago.. ;) |
| 18:45.46 | brlcad | there's also a pattern tool for replicating objects ;) |
| 18:46.02 | pier | an hard copy of them |
| 18:46.23 | pier | that not hinerit the properties of the father |
| 18:46.52 | brlcad | ahh ;) |
| 18:47.30 | pier | I mean the pencil that is not sharpened :) |
| 18:48.18 | pier | page 19 VOL III |
| 18:48.57 | pier | what is the way? |
| 18:49.12 | pier | to replicate a comb? |
| 19:19.28 | CIA-4 | BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/librt/db_open.c: prevent a segfault if caller provides a null mode to db_open() |
| 19:20.06 | CIA-4 | BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/librt/dir.c: init mat to NULL before checking if it's null. |
| 19:21.50 | brlcad | there is no pencil on page 19 of vol III |
| 19:22.01 | brlcad | it's a helicopter |
| 19:22.12 | brlcad | maybe you mean vol IV |
| 19:22.25 | brlcad | er, II |
| 19:23.39 | pier | last but fourth line |
| 19:23.53 | brlcad | ahh |
| 19:24.06 | pier | :) |
| 19:25.03 | pier | brlcad: does p 0 180 0 work with matrix rotation? |
| 19:25.23 | pier | for a 180 deg rot round Y axes |
| 19:25.58 | brlcad | p is relative adjustments for whatever edit operation is selected |
| 19:26.27 | brlcad | so that would rotate 180 degrees about the Y axis |
| 19:26.48 | pier | it works with shapes but returns an error with matrix rotation |
| 19:26.57 | brlcad | if you wanted to rotate, translate, or scale absolute instead of relatively, you'd use the rot, tra, and sca commands instead |
| 19:27.31 | pier | without checking the proper box in the mged graph win |
| 19:28.45 | pier | gas! it worked |
| 19:29.58 | ``Erik | O.o |
| 19:30.20 | brlcad | heh |
| 19:30.28 | pier | ? breaks the winds? |
| 19:30.41 | brlcad | pier: rot and orot commands for relative/absolute for objects |
| 19:31.00 | pier | thanks a lot for the help |
| 19:31.02 | brlcad | p is for editing parameters to pritives, my bad ;) |
| 19:32.02 | brlcad | pier: do you understand the difference between figure 10 and figure 11? |
| 19:32.23 | pier | mmmh oral test.. |
| 19:32.24 | brlcad | usually you just use the method in figure 11 |
| 19:34.02 | pier | referencing allows to make any altering to the prototype to be immediately transferred to the referred objects |
| 19:34.26 | brlcad | it's not that it's "transferred", it's that they are actually all referring to the same thing |
| 19:35.00 | brlcad | just how you respond to both "pier" and "Pierpaolo" .. they are both references to the "real you" |
| 19:35.15 | pier | a matrix would represent just the coordinates of the referred new objects along with the rotations |
| 19:35.27 | brlcad | so if the "real you" changes, so do "pier" and "Pierpaolo" |
| 19:35.33 | pier | ok ok |
| 19:36.06 | brlcad | right, the matrix just orients the object in space |
| 19:37.36 | pier | that was what I meant about sharpening just one pencil (the original) and getting the other imediately sharpened... they are just images of the same real object (with material properties?) |
| 19:38.10 | brlcad | right |
| 19:38.17 | brlcad | cept not necessarily with material properties |
| 19:38.23 | pier | ok |
| 19:38.29 | brlcad | that depends where you've applied material properties |
| 19:38.41 | pier | can be changed? |
| 19:38.42 | brlcad | if your template is a region with material propertis, then yes, it'll inherit them |
| 19:38.48 | pier | ok |
| 19:38.59 | brlcad | if it's just a generic object with no properties, then there's nothing to inherint |
| 19:39.07 | pier | whereas a comb has no mat prop |
| 19:39.44 | brlcad | intrinsically, it's just a grouping |
| 19:39.57 | brlcad | though the edit will let you apply shader parameters |
| 19:40.05 | brlcad | s/edit/editor/ |
| 19:40.16 | brlcad | grr |
| 19:40.18 | brlcad | ibot shut up |
| 19:40.19 | ibot | yes, Master brlcad |
| 19:41.06 | pier | brlcad: you are a very good teacher if you are able to teach me these things (rather complicated things) |
| 19:41.31 | clock_ | brlcad: is it AI or what that it can understand English language and even correct it? |
| 19:42.24 | brlcad | clock_: neither |
| 19:42.51 | brlcad | s/blah1/blah2/ means "substitute the blah1 in what I just said with blah2" |
| 19:43.38 | brlcad | ibot is just recognizing the s///, then finding a match in my previous line, then blabbing |
| 19:43.46 | brlcad | relatively new feature, not fond of it really |
| 19:44.10 | pier | is there a project for translating the manual in other languages? |
| 19:44.30 | brlcad | there is not, though there have been one or two very interested |
| 19:44.54 | brlcad | i'd like to get them converted from their current form to docbook sometime |
| 19:45.03 | brlcad | then get translations of the docbook for various languages |
| 19:45.36 | brlcad | right now it's pdf and msword (yes, the original is actually msword, bleh) |
| 19:45.49 | brlcad | (wasn't me!) ;) |
| 19:46.06 | pier | ok so if any help is needed I would like to volunteer |
| 19:46.16 | brlcad | excellent |
| 19:46.20 | pier | tex would be fine? |
| 19:46.22 | brlcad | do you know docbook? :) |
| 19:46.34 | brlcad | or willing to learn it |
| 19:46.42 | pier | I'll have to have a look round the web |
| 19:46.43 | brlcad | tex would be a distant second preference |
| 19:47.05 | pier | heard about it quite a lot recently |
| 19:47.06 | brlcad | docbook has a much better separation of content and style |
| 19:47.38 | brlcad | it's easier to deal with docbook when you see examples |
| 19:48.04 | brlcad | e.g. if you check out the gforge sources on gforge.org, their documentation is in docbook form |
| 19:48.45 | brlcad | the linuxdoc is/was primarily docbook as their main format as well for all linux documentation (manpages, howtos, faqs, etc) |
| 19:49.14 | pier | ok |
| 19:49.41 | brlcad | could maybe even start with something more simple like converting one of the manpages to docbook (like rt's) |
| 19:49.52 | pier | does Norman Walsh happen to be the one of the tcl-tk book? |
| 19:50.50 | pier | none it was Welsh |
| 19:51.02 | brlcad | ah, yeah |
| 19:51.03 | pier | ok I'll have a go with it |
| 19:51.04 | brlcad | Dan Welsh |
| 19:51.36 | pier | rt man page? |
| 19:53.36 | brlcad | there are manpages for most of the commands |
| 19:53.41 | brlcad | man rt |
| 19:53.49 | brlcad | if you've set up your system MANPATH |
| 19:53.55 | brlcad | if not, try "brlman rt" |
| 19:54.43 | pier | man rt work fine |
| 19:54.47 | pier | works |
| 19:56.02 | brlcad | pier: here's a starter |
| 19:56.03 | brlcad | http://opensource.bureau-cornavin.com/crash-course/ |
| 19:57.31 | pier | great |
| 19:59.58 | brlcad | here's a decent example of a rather extensive xml document for the gforge project: http://gforge.org/plugins/scmcvs/cvsweb.php/gforge/docs/docbook/docbook/?cvsroot=gforge |
| 20:00.10 | brlcad | xml docbook document, that is |
| 20:00.34 | brlcad | (select the rev number, e.g. 1.1, not the file name) |
| 20:03.32 | pier | damit... last week I missed a refresher course at school about XML... I didn't think it could come in handy |
| 20:04.29 | joevalleyfield | they rarely teach docbook (document) style XML, they usually teach it for data exchange |
| 20:04.56 | joevalleyfield | so chances are what you missed isn't too applicable |
| 20:05.20 | pier | ok |
| 20:05.48 | pier | looks like html |
| 20:05.52 | pier | a bit |
| 20:06.18 | joevalleyfield | it's really similar to xhtml2, if that's out yet |
| 20:07.13 | joevalleyfield | you tend to mark up nested groupings if logically related material |
| 20:07.39 | joevalleyfield | s/if/of/ |
| 20:13.56 | brlcad | joevalleyfield: is that what you really meant? :) |
| 20:17.14 | ``Erik | windows sucks and blows, both in most unpleaseant ways |
| 20:19.32 | pier | amazing: Even if you have never used either DocBook or other markup languages (like LinuxDoc) before, you should be able to become proficient in it just by reading through this guide |
| 20:19.53 | joevalleyfield | you told it to shutup ;) |
| 20:35.02 | pier | so the path would be: 1)getting aquainted with docbook 2) pouring the translated text in the new form namefile.docbook |
| 20:36.08 | *** join/#brlcad CIA-4 (i=cia@flapjack.navi.cx) | |
| 20:43.50 | pier | Is docbook-sgml the packege needed for this purpose? |
| 20:45.40 | pier | ver 4.4 |
| 20:50.59 | CIA-4 | BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/librt/dir.c: heh, wrong line and bad syntax.. never mind |
| 20:53.58 | brlcad | pier: yes and sure |
| 20:54.12 | brlcad | though i'd give the docbook-xml a stab first |
| 20:54.55 | pier | ok then I'll download it too |
| 20:55.02 | brlcad | that way the file will actually render and work with existing xml tools too, even most browsers support some rudimentary xml markup |
| 20:55.48 | pier | ok then |
| 21:05.06 | pier | downloaded dsssl version too.... haven't the slightest idea what that is but what the hell... |
| 21:05.59 | pier | night to everybody and thanks for the help... hope to be able to return sooner or later the kind help |
| 21:07.24 | joevalleyfield | dsssl is predecessor to xsl |
| 21:07.32 | joevalleyfield | its scheme based |
| 21:07.41 | joevalleyfield | if you're into (((( instead of <<< |
| 21:08.33 | pier | thank you very much joe (yet it's all greek to me :) ) |
| 21:09.15 | pier | got to get down with the tutorial first |
| 21:09.21 | joevalleyfield | glad you're looking at it pier |
| 21:10.22 | brlcad | working on docs is generally pretty high visibility stuff, and very appreciated.. |
| 21:11.15 | brlcad | I forget the exact numbers, but the last time I processed the web logs it was in the high thousands, like 10 or 20k downloads of the tutorials, etc |
| 21:11.29 | brlcad | and that was many many months ago now |
| 21:12.13 | pier | Yes I agree... it's the best way to spread out a good job |
| 21:14.08 | *** join/#brlcad clock_ (n=clock@84-72-61-225.dclient.hispeed.ch) | |
| 21:14.10 | pier | work |
| 21:15.51 | *** part/#brlcad pier (n=pier@151.56.239.49) | |
| 21:19.10 | ``Erik | maybe I should look into dsssl o.O |
| 21:19.27 | joevalleyfield | are you a lisp lover, eric??? |
| 21:19.30 | joevalleyfield | don't do it |
| 21:19.36 | ``Erik | yeah, actually, of the scheme variety |
| 21:19.37 | ``Erik | heh |
| 21:20.04 | ``Erik | *woops* :) |
| 21:20.20 | joevalleyfield | :) |
| 21:20.36 | ``Erik | (also, if you look at the freebsd ports, my name is attached to like half of the scheme related ones) |
| 21:20.51 | joevalleyfield | doesn't scheme natively have continuations? |
| 21:21.00 | ``Erik | yes |
| 21:21.13 | ``Erik | first order |
| 21:21.27 | ``Erik | call-with-current-continuation is the spec name, but most impl's have call/cc as a shortcut |
| 21:22.27 | ``Erik | (guile is one of the very few that don't have the shortcut) |
| 21:24.42 | CIA-4 | BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/librt/db_open.c: remove dead init line, dbi_eof is set to something else two lines after. |
| 21:24.44 | *** topic/#brlcad by brlcad -> http://brlcad.org/ || BRL-CAD is now Free Software! || BRL-CAD Windows port has been merged to HEAD, not yet stable yet || December/January is a unified iteration to allow time for holidays || Archer is now on | |
| 21:24.48 | brlcad | <PROTECTED> |
| 21:24.49 | brlcad | oop |
| 21:26.19 | *** topic/#brlcad by brlcad -> http://brlcad.org/ || BRL-CAD is now Free Software! || BRL-CAD Windows port has been merged to HEAD, not yet stable yet || Archer is now on HEAD as well, kick the tires, report any bugs || there WILL be a 7.6.8 released ASAP for January after all | |
| 21:26.48 | brlcad | ``Erik: if you need mods for 7.6.6 building in ports, lemme know and they can get into 7.6.8 |
| 21:27.01 | brlcad | e.g. the iwidgets test |
| 21:27.02 | ``Erik | I've already commited them |
| 21:27.05 | brlcad | it won't be the stuff on head |
| 21:27.14 | brlcad | ah, okay, i'll try to find them |
| 21:27.42 | brlcad | or you can commit them to the rel-7-6-branch too |
| 21:28.00 | ``Erik | just a second... |
| 21:29.17 | ``Erik | configure.ac has some tests and src/liboptical/Makefile.am has that hack we discussed that breaks aix supposedly |
| 21:30.28 | ``Erik | I believe that's it |
| 21:30.35 | ``Erik | I can mfc them if you want |
| 21:31.23 | ``Erik | I'm not convinced that the C will allow an outisde itcl/itck/iwidget impl yet |
| 21:31.51 | ``Erik | (that's what I was looking into when justin rebooted the minicluster) |
| 21:31.59 | ``Erik | and fuck my arm hurts |
| 21:37.20 | ``Erik | grrrrrr, I think justin justin just rebooted it again |
| 21:38.05 | ``Erik | mv reboot reboot.orig ; echo "#!/bin/sh\necho Don't do that" > reboot |
| 21:38.07 | ``Erik | o.O |
| 21:44.46 | *** join/#brlcad AchiestDragon (n=dave@whipy.demon.co.uk) | |
| 21:54.25 | ``Erik | or mebbe it crashed, heh |
| 22:11.53 | CIA-4 | BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/librt/db5_io.c: correctly free our allocated resources in db5_fwrite_ident() even on fatal error by stashing the result. |
| 22:19.45 | joevalleyfield | diff -I is my new best friend |
| 22:20.28 | *** join/#brlcad DTRemenak (n=DTRemena@DHCP-170-143.caltech.edu) | |
| 22:20.51 | brlcad | ``Erik: nah, he keeps causing the crash |
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| 22:23.13 | brlcad | joevalleyfield: heh |
| 22:26.08 | PrezKennedy | digg.com is turning into a vigilante website |
| 22:26.22 | PrezKennedy | "omg letz haxxor or DDNS anyone who does something wrong online" |
| 22:26.29 | PrezKennedy | *DDOS |
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| 22:43.35 | CIA-4 | BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/librt/db_open.c: clean up db_create()'s logic considerably. annoyingly, the version check for writing out the ident can't go away since db_fwrite_ident() has no means to determine the version (need some wrapper interface) |
| 22:45.59 | CIA-4 | BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/librt/db_io.c: ws |
| 22:52.36 | joevalleyfield | whoa |
| 23:02.29 | ``Erik | get a private room, geez |
| 23:54.08 | ``Erik | heh |
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| 00:01.09 | cad079 | h |
| 00:01.09 | cad079 | h |
| 00:01.09 | cad079 | h |
| 00:01.09 | cad079 | h |
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| 01:34.34 | CIA-4 | BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/libpkg/pkg.c: quell braindead compiler warning on altix where strerror_r is declared to return a char * (gnu glibc extension) instead of an int (posix, bsd, c89, svid3) like it's supposed to. |
| 01:40.14 | CIA-4 | BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/gtools/g_transfer.c: |
| 01:40.15 | CIA-4 | BRL-CAD: begin initial support for creating an in-memory geometry database (routines will |
| 01:40.15 | CIA-4 | BRL-CAD: likely move into librt, but here for now for simplicity (db_open_inmem() and |
| 01:40.15 | CIA-4 | BRL-CAD: db_create_inmem()). also send the length of each object over the wire as an |
| 01:40.15 | CIA-4 | BRL-CAD: ascii string for simplicity so we can easily restore the bu_external structure |
| 01:40.15 | CIA-4 | BRL-CAD: without going through hoops. add an rt_init_resource() call for convenience |
| 01:40.17 | CIA-4 | BRL-CAD: until the next release since db_open() is bugged on earlier versions. |
| 04:37.37 | pra5ad | justin's next project |
| 04:37.40 | pra5ad | http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=6943201001782160188 |
| 04:56.19 | CIA-4 | BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/TODO: add callback data parameteres to libpkg hook functions so one doesn't have to use global data |
| 05:40.18 | ``Erik | http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=2899771876757809023&q=funny |
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| 00:01.09 | cad079 | h |
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| 01:34.34 | CIA-4 | BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/libpkg/pkg.c: quell braindead compiler warning on altix where strerror_r is declared to return a char * (gnu glibc extension) instead of an int (posix, bsd, c89, svid3) like it's supposed to. |
| 01:40.14 | CIA-4 | BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/gtools/g_transfer.c: |
| 01:40.15 | CIA-4 | BRL-CAD: begin initial support for creating an in-memory geometry database (routines will |
| 01:40.15 | CIA-4 | BRL-CAD: likely move into librt, but here for now for simplicity (db_open_inmem() and |
| 01:40.15 | CIA-4 | BRL-CAD: db_create_inmem()). also send the length of each object over the wire as an |
| 01:40.15 | CIA-4 | BRL-CAD: ascii string for simplicity so we can easily restore the bu_external structure |
| 01:40.15 | CIA-4 | BRL-CAD: without going through hoops. add an rt_init_resource() call for convenience |
| 01:40.17 | CIA-4 | BRL-CAD: until the next release since db_open() is bugged on earlier versions. |
| 04:37.37 | pra5ad | justin's next project |
| 04:37.40 | pra5ad | http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=6943201001782160188 |
| 04:56.19 | CIA-4 | BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/TODO: add callback data parameteres to libpkg hook functions so one doesn't have to use global data |
| 05:40.18 | ``Erik | http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=2899771876757809023&q=funny |
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| 15:30.41 | IngMan | Hi when get documentation about nirt |
| 15:32.05 | brlcad | when? |
| 15:32.11 | brlcad | whenever you want :) |
| 15:32.20 | brlcad | man nirt |
| 15:33.37 | IngMan | more documentation, that man(mas documentacion que no sea man) |
| 15:40.07 | brlcad | ah, que no sea man.. hmmmm |
| 15:40.28 | brlcad | quiza.. |
| 15:41.52 | IngMan | exacto |
| 15:46.22 | brlcad | haven't found anything, i'll have to ask around pero creo que no |
| 15:46.37 | brlcad | tienes alguna pregunta sobre como usarlo? |
| 15:46.59 | brlcad | can be used both interactively and non-interactively |
| 15:47.49 | clock_ | brlcad: is is spanish? |
| 15:48.38 | CIA-12 | BRL-CAD: 03bob1961 * 10brlcad/src/conv/g-stl.c: The -i option doesn't take an argument. |
| 15:48.53 | IngMan | Eres tu morrison |
| 15:50.49 | brlcad | si |
| 15:51.33 | IngMan | Te acuerdas que te conte que estoy haciendo un manual en español |
| 15:52.44 | IngMan | queria hablar de como acotar o tener informacion del modelo que estas haciendo, y creo que nirt hace eso |
| 15:53.00 | brlcad | por supuesto |
| 15:53.51 | IngMan | que se puede decir de nirt |
| 15:54.09 | IngMan | la verdad aun no entiendo muy bien como funciona |
| 15:54.15 | brlcad | perate.. |
| 15:56.09 | IngMan | hoy estoy medio dormido si te dista cuenta, when???? por decir donde |
| 16:06.43 | brlcad | IngMan: tengo que irme pero ahorita quiero seguir esa conversacion |
| 16:07.28 | brlcad | er, s/pero ahorita/ahorita, pero../ |
| 16:07.53 | IngMan | cuanto es ahorarita |
| 16:08.00 | brlcad | ya ;) |
| 16:08.43 | brlcad | regreso en como una hora y algo |
| 16:08.48 | IngMan | no tengo mucho tiempo |
| 16:09.23 | brlcad | esta bien, podemos hablar luego? mañana? |
| 16:09.40 | IngMan | por eso cuando puedes |
| 16:09.46 | brlcad | ok |
| 16:11.15 | IngMan | dentro de cuanto puedes |
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| 00:01.09 | cad079 | h |
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| 01:34.34 | CIA-4 | BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/libpkg/pkg.c: quell braindead compiler warning on altix where strerror_r is declared to return a char * (gnu glibc extension) instead of an int (posix, bsd, c89, svid3) like it's supposed to. |
| 01:40.14 | CIA-4 | BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/gtools/g_transfer.c: |
| 01:40.15 | CIA-4 | BRL-CAD: begin initial support for creating an in-memory geometry database (routines will |
| 01:40.15 | CIA-4 | BRL-CAD: likely move into librt, but here for now for simplicity (db_open_inmem() and |
| 01:40.15 | CIA-4 | BRL-CAD: db_create_inmem()). also send the length of each object over the wire as an |
| 01:40.15 | CIA-4 | BRL-CAD: ascii string for simplicity so we can easily restore the bu_external structure |
| 01:40.15 | CIA-4 | BRL-CAD: without going through hoops. add an rt_init_resource() call for convenience |
| 01:40.17 | CIA-4 | BRL-CAD: until the next release since db_open() is bugged on earlier versions. |
| 04:37.37 | pra5ad | justin's next project |
| 04:37.40 | pra5ad | http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=6943201001782160188 |
| 04:56.19 | CIA-4 | BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/TODO: add callback data parameteres to libpkg hook functions so one doesn't have to use global data |
| 05:40.18 | ``Erik | http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=2899771876757809023&q=funny |
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| 15:30.41 | IngMan | Hi when get documentation about nirt |
| 15:32.05 | brlcad | when? |
| 15:32.11 | brlcad | whenever you want :) |
| 15:32.20 | brlcad | man nirt |
| 15:33.37 | IngMan | more documentation, that man(mas documentacion que no sea man) |
| 15:40.07 | brlcad | ah, que no sea man.. hmmmm |
| 15:40.28 | brlcad | quiza.. |
| 15:41.52 | IngMan | exacto |
| 15:46.22 | brlcad | haven't found anything, i'll have to ask around pero creo que no |
| 15:46.37 | brlcad | tienes alguna pregunta sobre como usarlo? |
| 15:46.59 | brlcad | can be used both interactively and non-interactively |
| 15:47.49 | clock_ | brlcad: is is spanish? |
| 15:48.38 | CIA-12 | BRL-CAD: 03bob1961 * 10brlcad/src/conv/g-stl.c: The -i option doesn't take an argument. |
| 15:48.53 | IngMan | Eres tu morrison |
| 15:50.49 | brlcad | si |
| 15:51.33 | IngMan | Te acuerdas que te conte que estoy haciendo un manual en español |
| 15:52.44 | IngMan | queria hablar de como acotar o tener informacion del modelo que estas haciendo, y creo que nirt hace eso |
| 15:53.00 | brlcad | por supuesto |
| 15:53.51 | IngMan | que se puede decir de nirt |
| 15:54.09 | IngMan | la verdad aun no entiendo muy bien como funciona |
| 15:54.15 | brlcad | perate.. |
| 15:56.09 | IngMan | hoy estoy medio dormido si te dista cuenta, when???? por decir donde |
| 16:06.43 | brlcad | IngMan: tengo que irme pero ahorita quiero seguir esa conversacion |
| 16:07.28 | brlcad | er, s/pero ahorita/ahorita, pero../ |
| 16:07.53 | IngMan | cuanto es ahorarita |
| 16:08.00 | brlcad | ya ;) |
| 16:08.43 | brlcad | regreso en como una hora y algo |
| 16:08.48 | IngMan | no tengo mucho tiempo |
| 16:09.23 | brlcad | esta bien, podemos hablar luego? mañana? |
| 16:09.40 | IngMan | por eso cuando puedes |
| 16:09.46 | brlcad | ok |
| 16:11.15 | IngMan | dentro de cuanto puedes |
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| 21:02.29 | CIA-6 | BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/other/blt/src/ (5 files): apply blt2.4z-patch-2 |
| 21:03.54 | CIA-6 | BRL-CAD: 03bob1961 * 10brlcad/src/tclscripts/archer/Archer.tcl: Add the ability to toggle display of primitive labels. |
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| 23:32.31 | CIA-6 | BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/other/libtcl/ (Makefile.am generic/Makefile.am unix/Makefile.am): move the AM_CPPFLAGS up to the top |
| 23:34.07 | CIA-6 | BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/other/blt/src/bltConfig.h: just make blt use brl-cad's common.h for config.h results |
| 23:36.02 | CIA-6 | BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/other/blt/Makefile.am: shouldn't need module, don't link the tk sources |
| 23:37.13 | CIA-6 | BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/other/blt/src/Makefile.am: shouldn't need module or static for this library, move CPPHEADERS to the top, don't install the blt config.h files, install the rest of the headers |
| 23:42.23 | CIA-6 | BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/configure.ac: (log message trimmed) |
| 23:42.23 | CIA-6 | BRL-CAD: fix AND improve the adrt checks. some variables had changed (making them wrong) |
| 23:42.23 | CIA-6 | BRL-CAD: for testing sdl/python; they're now fixed. add an --enable-adrt option that is |
| 23:42.23 | CIA-6 | BRL-CAD: coupled to the --with-sdl and --with-python options including all the additional |
| 23:42.23 | CIA-6 | BRL-CAD: checks for making sure all the various combinations make sense or output |
| 23:42.24 | CIA-6 | BRL-CAD: messages or abort. before doing any BC_RETRY_CONFIGURE, output a message as to |
| 23:42.26 | CIA-6 | BRL-CAD: why we are retrying. sdl test only needs to check for sdl-config if sdl is |
| 23:46.51 | *** join/#brlcad tegtmeye (n=803f2007@bz.bzflag.bz) | |
| 23:47.04 | tegtmeye | justin wake up |
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| 00:03.42 | justin_ | hey |
| 00:04.44 | tegtmeye | I have it!!! |
| 00:04.56 | tegtmeye | With equations |
| 00:05.30 | justin_ | oh? :) |
| 00:05.37 | justin_ | msg me |
| 00:05.38 | pra5ad | o.0? |
| 00:05.48 | tegtmeye | We are both right |
| 00:05.54 | tegtmeye | I'm on the we client |
| 00:05.58 | tegtmeye | web |
| 00:06.26 | justin_ | did you see that? |
| 00:06.35 | tegtmeye | o |
| 00:06.37 | tegtmeye | no |
| 00:06.41 | justin_ | ah, k |
| 00:06.52 | justin_ | well, if you just wanna wait until you get home, that's cool |
| 00:07.19 | tegtmeye | someplace better to talk? |
| 00:07.48 | justin_ | try #lair |
| 00:09.23 | justin_ | ? |
| 00:09.43 | tegtmeye | what would be a irc client that would be installed on irc besides bitchx? |
| 00:11.01 | justin_ | huh? |
| 00:11.11 | justin_ | installed on what? |
| 00:11.18 | justin_ | do you want a shell on my box? |
| 00:11.19 | tegtmeye | red hat |
| 00:11.23 | *** join/#brlcad docelic (n=docelic@clj34-71.dial-up.arnes.si) | |
| 00:11.31 | tegtmeye | sure |
| 00:11.31 | justin_ | you can't irc from work cmoputers |
| 00:11.51 | justin_ | what do you want your user to be |
| 00:12.02 | tegtmeye | same as here |
| 00:12.28 | justin_ | tegtmeye or tegtmeyer? |
| 00:12.41 | tegtmeye | tegtmeye |
| 00:14.14 | justin_ | ok |
| 00:14.17 | justin_ | ssh js.cx |
| 00:14.46 | tegtmeye | ps? |
| 00:14.58 | justin_ | hit enter |
| 00:15.07 | tegtmeye | nope |
| 00:15.40 | justin_ | try 123 |
| 00:15.51 | tegtmeye | k |
| 00:15.57 | justin_ | k, change it |
| 00:16.25 | tegtmeye | ok |
| 00:16.33 | justin_ | k |
| 00:16.35 | justin_ | BitchX is there |
| 00:16.42 | tegtmeye | got it |
| 00:16.48 | justin_ | BitchX adams.freenode.net or something |
| 00:18.07 | tegtmeye | snore... |
| 00:18.11 | justin_ | heh |
| 00:18.25 | tegtmeye | processing...processing... |
| 00:19.09 | tegtmeye | must be that wireless:) |
| 00:19.22 | justin_ | heh |
| 00:19.34 | justin_ | or that I'm not running indent |
| 00:19.36 | justin_ | err identd |
| 00:20.02 | justin_ | does it say you're connecting to a freenode networking? |
| 00:20.09 | justin_ | or atleast established a connection? |
| 00:20.20 | tegtmeye | yea, stuck after mode change |
| 00:20.31 | justin_ | k, give it another minute |
| 00:20.43 | tegtmeye | dude, I'll just hop on from home |
| 00:20.48 | tegtmeye | give me an hour |
| 00:20.49 | justin_ | ok |
| 00:20.51 | justin_ | no prob |
| 00:21.02 | justin_ | draw a digram |
| 00:21.08 | tegtmeye | try the drill thing, it is part of the solution |
| 00:21.12 | justin_ | k |
| 00:21.33 | tegtmeye | later |
| 00:32.12 | ``Erik | *yawn* |
| 01:26.55 | *** join/#brlcad tegtmeye (n=tegtmeye@pool-70-17-225-27.balt.east.verizon.net) | |
| 01:26.58 | justin_ | hey |
| 01:27.05 | justin_ | I *just* finished the tests |
| 01:27.43 | tegtmeye | <- plugs in Pbook... |
| 01:27.48 | tegtmeye | so? |
| 01:27.58 | tegtmeye | good news or bad |
| 01:28.26 | justin_ | check your msgs |
| 01:28.40 | tegtmeye | mmm 2 day old Olive Tree... |
| 01:29.21 | justin_ | well? |
| 01:29.39 | tegtmeye | give me a min, still new to Bitchx... |
| 01:29.51 | justin_ | it's ... irc :) |
| 02:05.35 | ``Erik | mike: read up on "/win new" and "/win level", they're... handy... I can trim and gives you my .ircrc if you want o.O |
| 02:05.43 | ``Erik | s/gives/give/ |
| 02:06.21 | *** join/#brlcad Matt_2_ (n=mkennedy@bz.bzflag.bz) | |
| 02:06.40 | ``Erik | annoying noisy sed bots, w00t. |
| 02:07.02 | brlcad | yeah, relatively new feature that tim must have added |
| 02:07.06 | brlcad | didn't used to do that |
| 02:07.45 | ``Erik | I assume it's a scratch written bot, not based off of eggie or something? |
| 02:08.00 | ``Erik | (which is the only tcl i'd ever touched before being exposed to brlcad o.O) |
| 02:09.18 | brlcad | ~ibot |
| 02:09.19 | ibot | well, ibot is a blootbot written in perl run by TimRiker on his server. logs on http://ibot.rikers.org/<chan>/ , ibot, jbot, apt are all the same process. It uses sqlite, but mysql or other SQL storage is also supported. |
| 02:09.46 | brlcad | Guu: guu |
| 02:09.47 | Guu | guu is hip and cool, baffuuuuuu |
| 02:09.49 | Matt_2_ | now i can enjoy this conversation in black AND white |
| 02:10.00 | brlcad | guu: identify |
| 02:10.01 | Guu | brlcad: (identify <name> <password>) -- Identifies the user as <name>. This command (and all other commands that include a password) must be sent to the bot privately, not in a channel. |
| 02:10.05 | brlcad | blah |
| 02:10.14 | brlcad | guu: version |
| 02:10.19 | Guu | brlcad: The current (running) version of this Supybot is 0.80.0pre2. The newest version available online is 0.83.1. |
| 02:10.37 | ``Erik | both of mine are eggies, heh |
| 02:10.39 | brlcad | so perl and python represent |
| 02:10.46 | ``Erik | I've seen a couple scheme bots that look... quite enticing |
| 02:10.58 | ``Erik | and you know me, I'm an ankle grabbing ho for anything scheme |
| 02:11.03 | brlcad | yep |
| 02:11.11 | PrezKennedy | incredible... the national weather service has a dense fog advisory |
| 02:11.32 | brlcad | supybot has some incredibly interesting features, but a horrid user/auth/permissions system |
| 02:12.24 | brlcad | bloot is surprisingly practical and instantly useful -- ibot in particular as her database is pretty massive having been around for years |
| 02:12.27 | ``Erik | heh, I'm still running old (1.3) eggies |
| 02:17.32 | ``Erik | ok, sean, spanglish question... 'mi hermano' means "my friend" in a masculine context... what would you call a chica? |
| 02:20.38 | brlcad | mi hermano literally means "my brother" |
| 02:21.10 | ``Erik | ahhhh |
| 02:21.18 | ``Erik | so the correlary would be "my sister"? |
| 02:21.18 | brlcad | which in vernacular can be like "my bro" or "my homie" or "my buddy" etc |
| 02:21.31 | ``Erik | O.o or is that a colloquial difference? |
| 02:21.32 | brlcad | yeah |
| 02:21.39 | brlcad | it is very much |
| 02:22.00 | ``Erik | aight, thnx |
| 02:22.05 | brlcad | just as colloquial as calling someone your bro is in english |
| 02:22.28 | ``Erik | maybe I should be learning spanglish instead of nippongo |
| 02:22.56 | brlcad | ~translate en es maybe I should be learning spanglish instead of nippongo |
| 02:23.15 | brlcad | heh, wow -- that's actually not that bad |
| 02:23.31 | ``Erik | heh |
| 02:23.44 | PrezKennedy | ~translate es en que? |
| 02:23.58 | brlcad | heh |
| 02:24.12 | ``Erik | !translate taco burrito supreme grande spaghetti |
| 02:24.16 | ``Erik | doh |
| 02:24.24 | ``Erik | used to "bang" commands on bots |
| 02:24.25 | ``Erik | :) |
| 02:24.38 | brlcad | that would be guu, and she don't have the translate module right now |
| 02:24.39 | ``Erik | mmm, beavis&butthead |
| 02:25.05 | brlcad | !who's your daddy? |
| 02:25.19 | brlcad | or.. someone changed the prefix char |
| 02:25.20 | PrezKennedy | ~translate es en fannybandit |
| 02:25.36 | PrezKennedy | guess my days of learning spanish from family guy are over |
| 02:29.50 | PrezKennedy | is it good? |
| 02:41.03 | ``Erik | sena, your box is now debian, with everything running and ok (but httpd turned off), and the server is now all fbsd, with most of the functionality in place, duder |
| 02:50.15 | ``Erik | heh, raiding? |
| 02:52.28 | brlcad | new on walkabout |
| 02:52.35 | brlcad | er, s/new/just/ |
| 02:53.52 | ``Erik | of course you know me and justin... I'm assuming you recognized alexis |
| 02:54.14 | ``Erik | burger and andrew are in there |
| 02:54.25 | ``Erik | channel's a bit skinny right now |
| 02:55.12 | brlcad | jeesh, i can't type tonight |
| 02:55.34 | ``Erik | heh |
| 03:06.37 | pra5ad | miyazaki on tmc again |
| 04:58.20 | Maloeran | Hi Sean, so you found the hiding place of Justin, Erik and I :), feel free to join the eternal debates about the future of graphical rendering |
| 04:59.14 | learner | heh, not much of a hiding place if I find it just wandering around efnet ;) |
| 05:01.26 | Maloeran | Eheh, we have been meeting there for the last few years, and Efnet's #opengl before then |
| 05:02.03 | Maloeran | freenode's #opengl is much more alive, much more clueless too |
| 05:08.16 | Maloeran | *nods* Burga is an expert at that too |
| 05:08.39 | ``Erik | burgers a d3d whoring winiot |
| 05:09.01 | ``Erik | I actually helped someone yesterday, heh |
| 05:09.25 | ``Erik | glColor3ui, geez, some people just make things unnecessarily hard on themselves |
| 05:12.11 | pra5ad | hmm? |
| 05:12.23 | pra5ad | whats wrong with 3ui? |
| 05:18.12 | Maloeran | Someone was passing 1.0f as parameter and wondering why everything was "black" |
| 05:18.38 | pra5ad | ah hehe |
| 05:24.15 | pra5ad | naussica and laputa subbed on right now |
| 07:30.20 | *** join/#brlcad DTRemenak (n=DTRemena@DHCP-170-143.caltech.edu) | |
| 07:30.43 | *** join/#brlcad clock_ (n=clock@84-72-95-209.dclient.hispeed.ch) | |
| 09:39.48 | *** join/#brlcad clock_ (n=clock@zux221-122-143.adsl.green.ch) | |
| 11:04.27 | *** join/#brlcad archivist (n=archivis@host217-35-76-52.in-addr.btopenworld.com) | |
| 13:24.20 | *** join/#brlcad pier (n=d9850efc@bz.bzflag.bz) | |
| 13:34.26 | *** join/#brlcad pier (n=d9850efc@bz.bzflag.bz) | |
| 15:10.53 | CIA-6 | BRL-CAD: 03bob1961 * 10brlcad/src/tclscripts/archer/Archer.tcl: Modify the packTree method to ignore malformed lines. Add call to _refresh_tree to _apply_edit and _reset_edit |
| 15:13.07 | CIA-6 | BRL-CAD: 03bob1961 * 10brlcad/src/tclscripts/archer/ShaderEdit.tcl: Add code to possibly call the (-shaderChangedCallback) from the changedShader method. |
| 15:16.09 | CIA-6 | BRL-CAD: 03bob1961 * 10brlcad/src/tclscripts/archer/images/aboutArcher.png: Update to 0.7.3 |
| 16:43.00 | *** join/#brlcad _AchiestDragon (n=dave@whipy.demon.co.uk) | |
| 17:41.27 | *** join/#brlcad clock_ (n=clock@84-72-61-249.dclient.hispeed.ch) | |
| 18:12.49 | *** join/#brlcad DTRemenak|RDP (n=DTRemena@DHCP-170-143.caltech.edu) | |
| 18:18.14 | *** join/#brlcad igotbsd (n=ricardo@adsl-10-15-31.mia.bellsouth.net) | |
| 18:18.23 | igotbsd | hi everyone |
| 18:21.03 | igotbsd | just installed brlcad on fbsd5.4-stable, but when i try to run mged from GUI i get this error Xlib: extension "GLX" missing on display "unix:0". apparently that's not the right value for the env. variable or is it? any help on this... |
| 18:23.00 | joevalleyfield | you might try the x display manager rather than the ogl one |
| 18:23.50 | joevalleyfield | mged -c will give you a choice but you'll sacrifice some of the gui |
| 18:24.06 | joevalleyfield | not sure how to choose display manager in non-classic mode |
| 18:25.00 | CIA-6 | BRL-CAD: 03bob1961 * 10brlcad/src/tclscripts/archer/Archer.tcl: Add better support for toggling display of primitive labels when Archer is embedded. |
| 18:28.04 | *** part/#brlcad igotbsd (n=ricardo@adsl-10-15-31.mia.bellsouth.net) | |
| 18:30.59 | ``Erik | heh |
| 18:31.06 | ``Erik | gantt chart chunk is refusing to work |
| 18:31.30 | joevalleyfield | if that was my name, i'd go on strike too! |
| 18:34.47 | *** join/#brlcad docelic (i=docelic@ri01-088.dialin.iskon.hr) | |
| 19:09.32 | *** join/#brlcad pier (n=pier@151.56.239.49) | |
| 19:21.27 | brlcad | heh |
| 19:45.27 | pier | brlcad.... |
| 19:46.11 | pier | had a look at the docbook crash course |
| 20:11.18 | brlcad | pier: excellent |
| 20:11.19 | brlcad | thoughts? |
| 20:11.29 | pier | what then? |
| 20:11.40 | pier | pick a man page and.. |
| 20:11.47 | brlcad | sounds like something you think you could work on? |
| 20:11.56 | brlcad | yeah |
| 20:12.01 | brlcad | maybe brlcad.1 |
| 20:12.03 | pier | you talked about rt man page |
| 20:13.31 | brlcad | only because it's one of the most frequently requested |
| 20:13.43 | brlcad | you could really pick any of them.. there are lots :) |
| 20:13.44 | pier | ok |
| 20:14.40 | pier | once I have translated the content is there a template I am supposed to follow? |
| 20:16.10 | pier | I mean.. in order to produce a dockbook document? |
| 20:17.06 | brlcad | not really |
| 20:17.58 | brlcad | have to consider how languages come into play across the entire package for making it easy to generate a set of documentation |
| 20:18.20 | brlcad | in docbook lingo, probably a collection of book, with several books being collections of articles |
| 20:18.38 | brlcad | i'd imagine the manpage is an article, though there might be better approaches |
| 20:20.01 | pier | is there a parallel project for multi lang where contributors can send files? |
| 20:20.11 | brlcad | there is probably an overarching organization that will be needed if only to maintain the files, e.g. whether having the files spread out across the source tree is better than having them all inside of doc/ |
| 20:21.00 | brlcad | and how to manage the different languages .. one dir per language at a high level? no dirs and just designate with extensions? one dir per dir with translations? |
| 20:21.29 | pier | :) |
| 20:22.08 | pier | why worrying about dirs and so on at this stage? |
| 20:24.10 | pier | perhaps a good point would be translating th group of 4 tomes and make them available through the BRLCAD site |
| 20:24.35 | pier | for a starter.... |
| 20:26.18 | pier | did I say rubbish? |
| 20:26.36 | brlcad | not worrying, just thinking aloud about long term |
| 20:28.54 | pier | translating the manuals wouldn't take long... there's already a template to spoil and to take advatage of |
| 20:28.56 | brlcad | pier: oh good idea |
| 20:29.04 | brlcad | how about starting with volume I |
| 20:29.06 | brlcad | it's short |
| 20:29.16 | pier | right away |
| 20:29.17 | brlcad | and already somewhat htmlified |
| 20:29.26 | pier | ;) |
| 20:30.05 | joevalleyfield | are man pages supposed to be <RefEntry/>s ? |
| 20:31.04 | brlcad | pier: http://brlcad.org/overview.html is volume I |
| 20:31.09 | brlcad | joevalleyfield: are they? |
| 20:31.20 | joevalleyfield | don't know about in the newest dtds |
| 20:31.29 | brlcad | oh, this looks useful: http://sourceforge.net/projects/man2docbook/ |
| 20:32.52 | brlcad | and http://docbook2x.sourceforge.net/ |
| 20:32.55 | brlcad | for the reverse |
| 20:33.04 | joevalleyfield | sweet |
| 20:35.06 | pier | There are no file packages defined for this project. |
| 20:36.56 | brlcad | yeah.. looks like they never got past the requirements stage |
| 20:37.16 | brlcad | http://cvs.sourceforge.net/viewcvs.py/man2docbook/doc/req.txt?rev=1.1&view=auto |
| 20:38.07 | brlcad | here's another http://www.xmlhack.com/read.php?item=1749 |
| 20:38.38 | brlcad | http://www.catb.org/~esr/doclifter/ |
| 20:38.38 | joevalleyfield | and that one is a little more than vapor |
| 20:41.26 | pier | man -> docbook -> polishing ;) -> that's it |
| 20:43.01 | brlcad | heh, i remember when ESR ran this: http://www.catb.org/~esr/doclifter/problems.html |
| 20:43.28 | brlcad | now I see it's all part of "project paradise" |
| 20:44.40 | *** join/#brlcad clock_ (n=clock@84-72-93-118.dclient.hispeed.ch) | |
| 20:44.43 | joevalleyfield | b address is blocked :-D |
| 20:46.38 | pier | so brlcad... I'll start asap to translate vol 1 |
| 20:47.06 | brlcad | pier: sounds great, look forward to seeing it |
| 20:47.16 | pier | where is the file to be sent |
| 20:47.22 | brlcad | btw, what languages do you know? :) |
| 20:49.07 | pier | ....Italiam :( |
| 20:49.10 | pier | n |
| 20:49.16 | brlcad | i'd start by sending the file in as a patch, we can work on simplifying that part later |
| 20:49.20 | brlcad | ah, excellent |
| 20:50.10 | pier | and some dialect from my own town which is quite incomprehensible :) |
| 20:50.21 | pier | so useless |
| 20:51.36 | brlcad | il mio amico sara' eccitato |
| 20:51.51 | pier | ? |
| 20:52.07 | pier | google translator? |
| 20:52.18 | brlcad | heh, no |
| 20:52.27 | pier | in che senso? |
| 20:52.32 | brlcad | just my bad italian |
| 20:52.34 | pier | :) |
| 20:53.02 | brlcad | il mio amico sarebbe contento di vederti |
| 20:53.12 | brlcad | er, to see it |
| 20:53.21 | pier | I mean there is always a man's best friend and it is advisable not to be eccitato at work |
| 20:53.30 | pier | :) |
| 20:53.34 | brlcad | hehe, pues contento :) |
| 20:53.42 | brlcad | felice |
| 20:53.45 | pier | congratulations! |
| 20:53.53 | brlcad | no eccitato ;) |
| 20:54.00 | pier | now it is better ;) |
| 20:54.18 | brlcad | you never know.. might really be that excited ;) |
| 20:54.30 | brlcad | to have the docs in italian |
| 20:55.26 | pier | ok then... I'll try and do my best |
| 20:56.26 | brlcad | no worries, even the english versions always need more work ;) |
| 20:57.23 | pier | it could be a good starting point in spreading such a great program |
| 20:57.41 | brlcad | i agree |
| 20:58.51 | pier | it would be a dirac-delta in the steepenig growing path |
| 21:03.54 | *** join/#brlcad cad002 (n=55e2c6d5@bz.bzflag.bz) | |
| 21:06.01 | pier | brlcad hope the DOMS has gone and wish a great weekend to everybody (and great workouts too ) |
| 21:14.59 | *** join/#brlcad cad002 (n=55e2c6d5@bz.bzflag.bz) | |
| 21:15.52 | brlcad | pier: DOMS? |
| 21:16.05 | brlcad | ~doms |
| 21:16.33 | brlcad | same to you, great weekend |
| 21:17.10 | pier | http://www.physsportsmed.com/issues/1999/01_99/muscle.htm |
| 21:17.14 | pier | buonanotte |
| 21:19.32 | *** part/#brlcad pier (n=pier@151.56.239.49) | |
| 21:20.24 | brlcad | hah |
| 21:21.32 | brlcad | that's a good link for pra5ad |
| 21:22.40 | clock_ | does pra5ad have a lot of muscles? |
| 21:23.05 | clock_ | I got brutal Document Object Model System from snowboarding :) |
| 21:23.08 | brlcad | heh |
| 21:25.54 | clock_ | brlcad: today is Friday 13. Today's sunset was interesting - we took a picture: ronja.twibright.com/fri13.jpg |
| 21:26.12 | brlcad | ooh, didn't realize that |
| 21:26.23 | brlcad | neat picture |
| 21:26.56 | clock_ | brlcad: do you know the blair witch project? |
| 21:27.02 | brlcad | yep |
| 21:27.08 | brlcad | i've been in that park |
| 21:27.10 | brlcad | it's nice ;) |
| 21:28.36 | brlcad | in fact, I just biked through it on new years eve during my ride, altough not into the park itself, just down the highway that passes |
| 21:29.43 | archivist | bikes need engines |
| 21:30.05 | brlcad | hehe |
| 21:30.54 | clock_ | brlcad: were there any stick figures? |
| 21:31.11 | clock_ | brlcad: what was in the house at the end of the movie? |
| 21:31.30 | clock_ | brlcad: the people were just staring there at something and it ended. |
| 21:31.32 | brlcad | i actually still haven't seen the movie, just know a bit about it |
| 21:31.52 | clock_ | brlcad: it wasn't conclusive. All it could have been a joke of the locals that didn't like the visitors |
| 21:32.20 | brlcad | heh, given the area, that is highly possible ;) |
| 23:05.45 | pra5ad | its bsg friday |
| 23:05.51 | pra5ad | it's* |
| 00:08.05 | brlcad | that it is |
| 00:13.38 | ``Erik | weee, my fat caliper is here |
| 00:18.55 | ``Erik | I see lee is playing with bug priorities o.O |
| 00:34.21 | brlcad | yeah, he's been on a frenzy |
| 00:34.50 | brlcad | hopefully will settle down soon, most do after their first couple times through ;) |
| 00:43.28 | ``Erik | heh |
| 00:43.46 | ``Erik | d'no why he's upmodding pedros thing |
| 00:43.49 | ``Erik | it's terribly minor |
| 00:53.18 | *** join/#brlcad DTRemenak (n=DTRemena@DHCP-170-143.caltech.edu) | |
| 00:57.30 | brlcad | heh didn't know you were the maintainer now |
| 01:00.46 | brlcad | er, s/heh/he/ |
| 01:11.40 | ``Erik | for a while |
| 01:11.55 | ``Erik | pedro did the first one, then handed it off to me |
| 01:12.48 | ``Erik | apr 9, 05 |
| 01:13.00 | brlcad | yeah, i told lee a hint of the details and that that particular issue is mostly taken care of already |
| 01:13.17 | ``Erik | the optimization thing is trivial |
| 01:13.33 | ``Erik | the itcl/itk thing, libbu wigs out on having radically different paths |
| 01:30.25 | *** join/#brlcad tegtmeye (n=tegtmeye@pool-70-17-225-27.balt.east.verizon.net) | |
| 01:37.42 | ``Erik | about 20% :-/ I'm a damn fatass |
| 02:30.26 | brlcad | tegtmeye: almost finished! |
| 02:31.34 | brlcad | ``Erik: you gonna bring them calipers in? :) |
| 02:51.16 | *** join/#brlcad DTRemenak (n=DTRemena@DHCP-170-143.caltech.edu) | |
| 02:53.01 | ``Erik | ... |
| 02:53.03 | ``Erik | heh |
| 02:53.06 | ``Erik | I spoze I could |
| 02:53.11 | ``Erik | if you wash 'em after you use 'em o. |
| 02:53.12 | ``Erik | O |
| 02:54.04 | brlcad | heh, nah, just wondering :) |
| 02:54.20 | brlcad | <PROTECTED> |
| 02:56.28 | ``Erik | heh |
| 02:56.31 | ``Erik | lemme guess |
| 02:56.35 | ``Erik | you, jason, and prasad |
| 02:56.49 | ``Erik | the pussy faggots who go lift weights every fucking day |
| 02:56.57 | ``Erik | O:-) |
| 02:58.28 | brlcad | them's brave words, don't make me sic pra5ad on you |
| 02:58.47 | brlcad | actually i had others in mind, but I probably don't want to really know |
| 03:02.10 | justin_ | http://www.random-good-stuff.com/random_good_stuff/2005/10/guess_whom_i_sa.html |
| 03:15.07 | brlcad | heh |
| 03:22.40 | CIA-6 | BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/rt/rtshot.c: |
| 03:22.40 | CIA-6 | BRL-CAD: use rt_gettrees_and_attrs instead of rt_gettrees_muves. the latter is a special |
| 03:22.40 | CIA-6 | BRL-CAD: hook routine provided to muves (though why rt_gettrees_and_attrs wasn't |
| 03:22.40 | CIA-6 | BRL-CAD: sufficient is a mystery to me). the abstraction does keep them ever so slightly |
| 03:22.40 | CIA-6 | BRL-CAD: decoupled, but brl-cad code shouldn't be calling it even if rtshot was initially |
| 03:22.41 | CIA-6 | BRL-CAD: perhaps an example for them. |
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| 03:31.01 | PKMOBILE | pong |
| 03:31.31 | PKMOBILE | wow my school email account has been reduced to a spam folder |
| 03:31.33 | PKMOBILE | and i never use it |
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| 04:00.18 | justin_ | <PROTECTED> |
| 04:00.28 | justin_ | for this month |
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| 04:25.58 | pra5ad | meh new bsg was ok |
| 04:26.13 | pra5ad | i predicted the twist =( |
| 04:38.33 | Maloeran | Hum, bsg? |
| 04:42.29 | justin_ | battle star galactica |
| 04:44.05 | Maloeran | Eh right, couldn't find what part of BrlCad "bsg" was refering to |
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| 05:55.35 | *** topic/#brlcad is http://brlcad.org/ || BRL-CAD is now Free Software! || BRL-CAD Windows port has been merged to HEAD, not yet stable yet || Archer is now on HEAD as well, kick the tires, report any bugs || there WILL be a 7.6.8 released ASAP for January after all | |
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| 00:38.19 | pra5ad | dammit skins |
| 00:38.25 | pra5ad | dammit! |
| 01:44.02 | ``Erik | go seahawks, seattle rules! |
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| 03:48.53 | CIA-6 | BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/m4/compiler.m4: meh |
| 03:49.30 | pra5ad | sean |
| 03:49.45 | pra5ad | where's that link to muscle pain |
| 03:49.56 | pra5ad | someone posted here earlier |
| 04:04.58 | CIA-6 | BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/m4/ (epsilon.m4 Makefile.am): (log message trimmed) |
| 04:04.58 | CIA-6 | BRL-CAD: new m4/epsilon.m4 file. define macros BC_TRY_RUN_OUTPUT, BC_FLOAT_EPSILON, and |
| 04:04.58 | CIA-6 | BRL-CAD: BC_DOUBLE_EPSILON. BC_TRY_RUN_OUTPUT attempts to compile and run the provided |
| 04:04.58 | CIA-6 | BRL-CAD: program, saving the output in the provided variable. this makes for really |
| 04:04.58 | CIA-6 | BRL-CAD: convenient tests that can output a calculated value (like computation |
| 04:04.59 | CIA-6 | BRL-CAD: tolerances). The latter two respectively determine the floating point tolerance |
| 04:05.01 | CIA-6 | BRL-CAD: epsilon value (i.e. smallest value such that 1.0 + value != 1.0). ANSI defines |
| 04:10.31 | CIA-6 | BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/configure.ac: |
| 04:10.31 | CIA-6 | BRL-CAD: run AC_C_BIGENDIAN without overriding the if-true and if-false so that the |
| 04:10.31 | CIA-6 | BRL-CAD: regular WORDS_BIGENDIAN define is provided (added for blt, which relies on it). |
| 04:10.31 | CIA-6 | BRL-CAD: test for size of int and long so that the result is logged for debugging. add |
| 04:10.31 | CIA-6 | BRL-CAD: checks to determine the floating point epsilon values too. |
| 04:11.20 | brlcad | pra5ad: take some advil, or an anti-inflammatory ;) |
| 04:25.19 | justin_ | if I'm going to add cam stuff to brl-cad, should I start a new project? |
| 04:27.41 | brlcad | given the way you prefer to code, probably -- go for it |
| 04:28.17 | justin_ | it's either that or I'm going to make a little opengl app |
| 04:40.22 | brlcad | i'd say strip and use what you like, actually might make it easier to pull the good parts in and let you develop unhindered |
| 04:44.02 | justin_ | I'm actually thinking about an alternate plan now |
| 04:44.36 | justin_ | since milling only a handful of specialized functions for boring and threading mainly, I'll just build those into a light weight opengl app |
| 04:44.50 | justin_ | *there exist |
| 04:45.06 | justin_ | brl-cad can be used for generating geometry |
| 04:47.08 | justin_ | going through the hassle of modeling threads and then converting back is silly |
| 04:47.36 | justin_ | easier to just say "I want an #8-32 thread 6mm deep" |
| 04:47.59 | justin_ | and have it know to do a helical sweep |
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| 08:30.45 | CIA-6 | BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/m4/epsilon.m4: |
| 08:30.45 | CIA-6 | BRL-CAD: add BC_COMPLIANT_FLOAT and BC_COMPLIANT_DOUBLE for determining whether the |
| 08:30.45 | CIA-6 | BRL-CAD: floating point implementation seems to be IEEE 754 compliant. a handful of |
| 08:30.45 | CIA-6 | BRL-CAD: tests are performed, namely checking that the epsilon tolerance matches the |
| 08:30.46 | CIA-6 | BRL-CAD: defined power, making sure 0 == -0, and that -0 is actually implemented. |
| 08:32.50 | CIA-6 | BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/configure.ac: add the new BC_COMPLIANT_FLOAT and BC_COMPLIANT_DOUBLE tests |
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| 08:49.07 | CIA-6 | BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/autogen.sh: fix a problem where the an aborted autogen.sh would leave a configure.ac.backup and a subsequent failing autoconf would restore the wrong/old backup. only restore if we made the backup. |
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| 17:08.02 | CIA-6 | BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/other/blt/Makefile.am: their configure indicated they need socket, m, and nsl, so add them |
| 17:14.54 | CIA-6 | BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/other/blt/src/bltTree.c: there seem to be two macro names missing for systems where sizeof_void_p is 8 (MAX_LIST_VALUES and START_LOGSIZE) so move their defines outside the #if so everyone gets it. |
| 18:25.50 | CIA-6 | BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/configure.ac: add header checks for ieeefp.h, setjmp.h, and waitflags.h for the blt package, also add function checks for finite() and isfinit() from libm and a sizeof test for long long. |
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| 18:33.57 | pier | Hi everybody |
| 18:34.12 | pier | Is brlcad around? |
| 18:45.10 | brlcad | he's always around |
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| 19:43.20 | CIA-6 | BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/gtools/g_transfer.c: |
| 19:43.20 | CIA-6 | BRL-CAD: give the server something to do with the geometry sent to it -- the client can |
| 19:43.20 | CIA-6 | BRL-CAD: specify objects that should be shot at via MSG_ARGS packets. the server stashes |
| 19:43.20 | CIA-6 | BRL-CAD: those object names and then shoots a ray at them when the client disconnects. |
| 19:43.20 | CIA-6 | BRL-CAD: since external packets actually include their data lengths inside, we don't need |
| 19:43.21 | CIA-6 | BRL-CAD: to send that object length as a string. server now correctly stashes the |
| 19:43.23 | CIA-6 | BRL-CAD: geometry as in-memory objects. |
| 20:36.40 | CIA-6 | BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/librt/db_open.c: ack, make sure the file pointer isn't null before trying to fclose it |
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| 23:49.24 | CIA-6 | BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/librt/db_io.c: ws |
| 23:51.04 | CIA-6 | BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/librt/db5_io.c: missing curlies, so wrong message was getting printed on bad objects. |
| 02:00.42 | CIA-6 | BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/librt/tree.c: stash the node into an argv for rt_gettree() so that it may be null-padded. helps debugging to see the boundary. |
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| 03:16.03 | paulMD-US | Hey all... question for people.... is there an application within the brlcad package to generate traditional 2d CAD drawings from the 3d brlcad solid model? |
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| 03:42.13 | brlcad | paulMD-US: yes and no |
| 03:43.55 | brlcad | paulMD-US: for the edge-style drawings themselves, there is an application called rtedge that will render an edge-outline drawing |
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| 03:45.00 | paulMD-US | ohk... But there's no application for like dimensioning that drawing or anything like that? |
| 03:45.08 | brlcad | paulMD-US: what it doesn't do, and which we don't have a tool for yet is the means to draw annotations and dimensions onto that rendering (or the other raytracers for that matter) though this is being worked on as time permits |
| 03:45.39 | paulMD-US | OK .. thanx for the info! |
| 03:45.46 | brlcad | no problem |
| 03:45.54 | brlcad | feel free to help us implement it ;) |
| 03:46.23 | paulMD-US | yea... regretably I'm a better engineer than I am a programmer, hahaha |
| 03:46.29 | brlcad | :) |
| 03:47.06 | brlcad | there is likely going to be an annotation tool that will allow one to overlay annotations and dimensions onto a raytrace fairly soon (next few months) |
| 03:47.50 | brlcad | the longer-term work is going into adding full support for stashing annotations and overlays into the geometry file themselves as geometric objects akin to brl-cad's sketches |
| 03:48.28 | brlcad | everything's mostly in place for it already, it's just a limitation of time/resources and a few other higher-priority items |
| 03:56.02 | justin_ | mmm engineering |
| 04:14.34 | pra5ad | body implants w/ antennas |
| 04:14.43 | pra5ad | i smell a bad csi ep |
| 04:28.50 | justin_ | heh |
| 04:29.04 | justin_ | turns out sitting in my chair I get 1200kB/sec, away from computer I get 250kB/sec |
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| 08:09.38 | brlcad | woot! |
| 08:34.50 | CIA-6 | BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/librt/prep.c: quell a warning after repeat calls to rt_clean() since the rti_nsol_by_type wasn't getting set to zero when the memory was released. now it checks for the zero param to bu_free and clears the nsol value. |
| 08:41.09 | CIA-6 | BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/gtools/g_transfer.c: (log message trimmed) |
| 08:41.10 | CIA-6 | BRL-CAD: now fully working, shooting rays at the remote geometry being held in-memory |
| 08:41.10 | CIA-6 | BRL-CAD: only. finishing polish fixes that were needed include making the dbi_title |
| 08:41.10 | CIA-6 | BRL-CAD: memory dynamic so librt doesn't try to free the static string, do the something |
| 08:41.10 | CIA-6 | BRL-CAD: during the ciao instead of after the server shuts down, and MOST IMPORTANTLY .. |
| 08:41.10 | CIA-6 | BRL-CAD: don't free the libpkg buf buffer that was used to set the external buffer, that |
| 08:41.12 | CIA-6 | BRL-CAD: gets stashed into the directory pointer, that must not be free'd when we try to |
| 08:44.27 | CIA-6 | BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/NEWS: new g_transfer in-memory geometry example program |
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| 15:06.21 | rednoon | hello |
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| 17:56.35 | CIA-6 | BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/gtools/.cvsignore: ignore g_transfer |
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| 18:16.25 | CIA-6 | BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/librt/db5_io.c: protect from loosing memory and from otherwise potentially freeing what we are about to dup by stashing the pointer then freeing it. |
| 18:19.28 | CIA-6 | BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/librt/ (db_flags.c db_alloc.c): move the db_flags_internal() to its own db_flags.c file as it has very little to do with allocations. also, add another routine for getting the flags from a db5_raw_internal as well. |
| 18:22.07 | CIA-6 | BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/librt/ (db_inmem.c db_lookup.c): |
| 18:22.08 | CIA-6 | BRL-CAD: begin consolidating the in-memory-only database geometry support into one plcae. |
| 18:22.08 | CIA-6 | BRL-CAD: move db_inmem() to its own db_inmem.c file, adding two new routines for |
| 18:22.08 | CIA-6 | BRL-CAD: opening/creating in-memory databases via db_open_inmem() and db_create_inmem(). |
| 18:22.08 | CIA-6 | BRL-CAD: difference between the two being that create adds a _GLOBAL while open does not. |
| 18:22.39 | CIA-6 | BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/librt/Makefile.am: add db_flags.c and db_inmem.c |
| 18:25.29 | CIA-6 | BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/gtools/g_transfer.c: rename the dbip global to DBIP to distinguish it from local function dbip pointers. move the open/create/flag inmem routines into librt proper into the db_inmem.c and db_flags.c files. |
| 18:27.09 | CIA-6 | BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/gtools/g_transfer.c: switch it back to db_open_inmem() instead of db_create_inmem() since testing is done, either should work fine but for this application, we don't need the _GLOBAL. |
| 18:28.16 | CIA-6 | BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/include/raytrace.h: add declarations for the new routines in db_inmem.c and db_flags.c, namely db_open_inmem, db_create_inmem, and db_flags_raw_internal |
| 18:29.43 | CIA-6 | BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/TODO: wrote the .g in-memory transfer example aplication |
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| 20:10.09 | IngMan | HI |
| 20:10.16 | IngMan | Hi Mos |
| 20:10.30 | IngMan | Hi Morrison |
| 20:16.30 | brlcad | hello IngMan |
| 20:17.56 | brlcad | if you refer to me as "brlcad", it'll usually get my attention faster |
| 20:20.24 | IngMan | k |
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| 20:22.32 | IngMan | hi BrlCAD |
| 20:23.30 | brlcad | heh |
| 20:24.17 | brlcad | brlcad for me brl-cad or BRL-CAD for the package ;) |
| 20:24.31 | IngMan | ok |
| 20:24.55 | IngMan | te acuerdas que te comente de manual en español |
| 20:25.04 | brlcad | si |
| 20:25.26 | brlcad | speaking of such.. pier has just finished up volume I in italian.. |
| 20:25.32 | brlcad | looking at it now |
| 20:28.13 | IngMan | i want talk about nirt command, but i dont know :( |
| 20:28.48 | brlcad | ah, yes |
| 20:29.49 | brlcad | there may likely be more information on nirt in the old printed documentation series from a long time ago |
| 20:30.11 | brlcad | i'll see if I can find anything in them |
| 20:30.23 | brlcad | (tomorrow, don't have them here with me now) |
| 20:30.35 | brlcad | otherwise, que quierias saber? |
| 20:31.18 | IngMan | cual es el objetivo del programa, no lo entiendo |
| 20:31.32 | brlcad | basicamente.. |
| 20:32.33 | brlcad | como se dice.. nirt tira rayos hacia objectos |
| 20:33.05 | brlcad | y te dice donde el rayo encuentra los objectos, que tan gruesos son |
| 20:33.56 | brlcad | quiza el material del objecto se tiene caracteristicas materiales |
| 20:34.12 | IngMan | ya |
| 20:34.25 | IngMan | eso era lo que yo pensaba |
| 20:34.39 | ``Erik | heh |
| 20:34.51 | brlcad | se puede usar por dentro de mged o separado |
| 20:35.40 | IngMan | listoç |
| 20:35.45 | brlcad | por ejemplo, abra un archive .g en mged, haga un 'e algo', y 'nirt' |
| 20:36.18 | IngMan | y de que otro comando seria bueno hablar |
| 20:37.31 | brlcad | nirt tambien se llama "query_ray" en mged |
| 20:38.01 | brlcad | bueno.. bastantes.. jmm |
| 20:38.05 | brlcad | rtedge |
| 20:38.07 | brlcad | rtwizard |
| 20:38.17 | brlcad | rt |
| 20:38.40 | brlcad | bastante mandatos de conversion |
| 20:39.09 | IngMan | si de esos ya los tengo casi todos aunque los mas importantes son iges y stl NO??? |
| 20:43.55 | IngMan | de casualidad tienes un .density ya creado |
| 20:46.23 | brlcad | depende en que te importa para decir quales son los mas importantes.. |
| 20:46.40 | brlcad | si, tengo un .density |
| 20:47.13 | IngMan | me permites copiarlo |
| 20:47.37 | brlcad | http://ftp.brlcad.org/tmp/.density |
| 20:49.00 | IngMan | thanks |
| 20:52.40 | IngMan | what program GPL is good for FEA |
| 20:53.19 | *** join/#brlcad cad485 (n=43621c7a@bz.bzflag.bz) | |
| 20:54.55 | *** join/#brlcad cad863 (n=43621c7a@bz.bzflag.bz) | |
| 20:56.05 | brlcad | IngMan: for the actual FEA, no se .. for meshing and preparation support, Cubit is very nice |
| 20:56.42 | brlcad | we're looking to collaborate with the Cubit folks sometime later this year |
| 20:56.47 | cad863 | A BRL-CAD question |
| 20:57.32 | phcoder | ls-dyna? you can download it, but I don't know if it's GPL |
| 20:57.48 | IngMan | only GPL or FREE |
| 20:57.52 | IngMan | ;) |
| 20:58.28 | IngMan | impact or Calculix |
| 20:59.17 | cad863 | My first time on IRC ... this is the preferred method of communicating with BRL-CAD devel. ... don't know proper manners for IRC. |
| 20:59.23 | IngMan | are good |
| 21:00.00 | cad863 | so how may I ask a question? |
| 21:01.54 | brlcad | cad863: just ask it |
| 21:01.56 | IngMan | simple, ask your question |
| 21:02.29 | brlcad | cad863: and yes, this is a preferred method, though the developer mailing list works too |
| 21:02.30 | cad863 | ah! there's someone. ok. |
| 21:03.01 | brlcad | ask the saying goes: |
| 21:03.02 | brlcad | ~ask |
| 21:03.04 | ibot | Questions in the channel should be specific, informative, complete, concise, and on-topic. Don't ask if you can ask a quesiton first. Don't ask if a person is there, just ask what you intended to ask them. Better questions more frequently yield better answers. We are all here voluntarily. See also http://catb.org/~esr/faqs/smart-questions.html |
| 21:03.04 | cad863 | I've found bits and pieces alluding to a rollout of BRL-CAD on MS Win last November users meeting |
| 21:03.29 | brlcad | cad863: yes, finishing up that merge now actually |
| 21:03.30 | *** join/#brlcad AchiestDragon (n=dave@whipy.demon.co.uk) | |
| 21:03.46 | brlcad | been working on it almost non-stop |
| 21:03.49 | cad863 | when will it be available then? |
| 21:04.15 | brlcad | there's an alpha/beta-release available now if you're interested |
| 21:04.21 | brlcad | the first "real" release should be next month |
| 21:04.29 | brlcad | i.e. 2-3 weeks |
| 21:04.51 | cad863 | yes. primarily just need mged and VDECK ... with I suppose the associated RT |
| 21:05.11 | cad863 | I need to create ".cg" input files for a thermal model |
| 21:05.22 | brlcad | hm, not sure if it includes the vdeck converter, but it'd be easy to compile |
| 21:05.25 | cad863 | have done so on Solaris, but they want me to do Win |
| 21:06.09 | brlcad | rt and mged are definitely available |
| 21:07.02 | cad863 | I D/L'd the source, so just need do-it-myself instruction, a pointer to the right doc, or someone to just ship it to me :) |
| 21:07.32 | brlcad | like I said, I can give you a link to the nov. beta |
| 21:07.39 | cad863 | great! |
| 21:07.41 | brlcad | otherwise, it shouldn't be too hard to compile |
| 21:08.13 | brlcad | there are vc7 project files in misc/win32-msvc7 |
| 21:08.31 | brlcad | and last I checked, the entire package builds under mingw |
| 21:08.54 | cad863 | excellent. thanks much. |
| 21:11.40 | pier | wanted to go on with the short mged tutorial but can't find the link |
| 21:12.44 | brlcad | short mged tutorial? |
| 21:13.14 | pier | yes .. the one with the mug example |
| 21:13.27 | brlcad | ah |
| 21:13.31 | brlcad | the old one :) |
| 21:13.33 | pier | very short version of Vol. II |
| 21:13.39 | pier | yes |
| 21:13.44 | brlcad | that's in the doc/html directory |
| 21:13.50 | pier | it helped me a lot |
| 21:13.57 | pier | ok :) |
| 21:14.33 | brlcad | either in doc/html in a source checkout or in /usr/brlcad/share/brlcad/VERSION/html/ |
| 21:14.55 | pier | as soon as you think it is ok I'll get down with Vol.II |
| 21:17.53 | pier | or would it be better to go straight o it? |
| 21:18.48 | brlcad | pier: just read it .. looks great :) |
| 21:22.34 | pier | thanks... but unfortunately it wasn,t me the author of the content |
| 21:22.53 | brlcad | translating isn't easy or quick |
| 21:23.14 | pier | a mere translator... |
| 21:23.59 | pier | so do you think Vol II would be the proper task now? |
| 21:24.31 | pier | rather than the abridged old version |
| 21:24.49 | brlcad | yes and no |
| 21:25.07 | brlcad | you started with the html for the translation, translating the pdf that way isn't going to be nearly as easy |
| 21:25.40 | brlcad | and ultimately, it will need to be a structured format (for most all the docs) like docbook |
| 21:25.55 | brlcad | which hasn't even happened for english yet |
| 21:26.18 | pier | I see |
| 21:27.08 | brlcad | i mean, it'd take weeks to recode all of vol II regardless |
| 21:28.17 | brlcad | continue in the direction you were going -- the html doc tutorial |
| 21:28.31 | brlcad | that should be easier, and it'll give more time to think about what to do about volume II |
| 21:28.41 | pier | ok I'll see what can I make of it |
| 21:30.56 | pier | I'll show up as soon as I get somethig done |
| 21:31.08 | brlcad | sounds great |
| 21:32.20 | pier | ok see u then |
| 21:35.33 | *** part/#brlcad pier (n=pier@151.56.192.151) | |
| 22:17.37 | *** join/#brlcad mcaruso (n=mcaruso@pool-141-156-220-116.res.east.verizon.net) | |
| 22:18.58 | mcaruso | can anyone point me to an example that shows how to transform an object to a position and orientation? |
| 22:19.23 | mcaruso | within code |
| 22:20.57 | brlcad | mcaruso: src/proc-db examples do this (most of them) |
| 22:25.42 | brlcad | mcaruso: if you're using the libwdb routines for creating/positioning geometry, e.g. mk_addmember(), it returns a struct wmember* which contains the transformation matrix that will get written to disk |
| 22:26.15 | mcaruso | brlcad: Im not using anything right now, Im looking to see how to get started |
| 22:26.27 | mcaruso | brlcad: I am starting with an rt_i* |
| 22:26.54 | brlcad | mcaruso: it depends on your purpose -- if you're just writing out geometry, the libwdb interface is considerably simplified |
| 22:27.29 | mcaruso | brlcad: ok Im not writing out the geometry, its all in memory |
| 22:27.36 | brlcad | rt_i includes a pointer to a wdb pointer, it's more a matter of whether you'll want that saved to disk |
| 22:28.33 | mcaruso | brlcad: no need to save to disk |
| 22:28.38 | brlcad | er, rt_i includes a pointer to the wdb structure (rti_wdbp member) |
| 22:29.04 | brlcad | k, then you'll have to go through a little more work to convert the geometry into an in-memory version |
| 22:29.18 | mcaruso | hmmm |
| 22:29.28 | brlcad | not hard, i actually just finished writing a tool that does exactly that |
| 22:29.34 | brlcad | for a different purpose |
| 22:29.35 | mcaruso | ooooo |
| 22:29.57 | brlcad | the in-memory processing part that is, I don't modify the geometry though that becomes easy |
| 22:30.35 | brlcad | check out the src/gtools/g_transfer.c source in CVS head |
| 22:30.44 | mcaruso | ok |
| 22:31.17 | brlcad | i.e. http://cvs.sourceforge.net/viewcvs.py/brlcad/brlcad/src/gtools/g_transfer.c?rev=1.11&view=auto |
| 22:31.43 | brlcad | that program is a client and server example application |
| 22:31.53 | brlcad | (i.e. is run in one of the two modes) |
| 22:32.27 | brlcad | you run the server, connect to it with the client and the geometry is transferred to the remote host, kept in-memory only and processed from there (raytraced) |
| 22:33.35 | brlcad | two main routines are send_to_server() that the client uses to read the geometry off disk in a serialized format, to send to the server |
| 22:34.32 | pra5ad | g_transfer is what u created for mike? |
| 22:34.34 | brlcad | db_get_external(&ext, dp, dbip); gets the "external"/serialized format which is then sent to the server |
| 22:34.40 | brlcad | pra5ad: yes |
| 22:34.50 | brlcad | different mike :) |
| 22:35.05 | pra5ad | eh |
| 22:35.33 | brlcad | the server then gets the external/serialized geometry from the client and processes it with server_geom() |
| 22:36.50 | mcaruso | so if you were to make an animation lets say (movie) creating an in-memory version of the geoemtry is necessary, correct? |
| 22:37.22 | mcaruso | Im not making a movie but just using that as an example |
| 22:37.28 | brlcad | depends whether you're acticulating the geometry or the camera |
| 22:37.40 | brlcad | if it's just the camera, then no |
| 22:37.55 | mcaruso | yea lets say geometry |
| 22:37.56 | brlcad | that's just shooting rays from different locations/grids |
| 22:38.42 | mcaruso | and I guess it also means that if you need to move one object the entire scene also needs to be converted to in-memory |
| 22:39.06 | brlcad | not necessarily -- you can have pieces in memory, and pieces not in memory |
| 22:39.10 | mcaruso | ok |
| 22:39.36 | mcaruso | how can I verify that a model in a .g file is built around the origin? |
| 22:39.43 | brlcad | mged uses in-memory geometry while you are editing for example until you "accept" an operation |
| 22:39.51 | mcaruso | oh ok |
| 22:39.55 | brlcad | then it's written to disk replacing the non-in-memory version |
| 22:40.30 | mcaruso | cause im thinking I might not have to turn the geometry to in-memory |
| 22:40.45 | mcaruso | because I have an orientation and location of where I would like to place the object |
| 22:40.47 | brlcad | probably the easiest means to verify a model is built around the origin is to load the geometry, prep it, and look at the model bounding box |
| 22:40.54 | mcaruso | and I want to shoot a ray at it |
| 22:40.59 | mcaruso | ok |
| 22:41.30 | mcaruso | so I could create the matrix that would do a model->world transformation than get the inverse of that and multiply the position and direction vectors of my rays |
| 22:41.42 | brlcad | yeah, for isolated objects, you can fake matrix manipulations and trasnformations by just shooting from different locations |
| 22:42.08 | brlcad | it's when you need them in context among other objects simultaneaously that you need the in-mem version |
| 22:42.22 | brlcad | yeah, that should work |
| 22:42.25 | mcaruso | good point, cause I dont need that for the VL stuff |
| 22:42.31 | mcaruso | just one object |
| 22:42.32 | brlcad | right |
| 22:46.50 | brlcad | yeah, if it's only one object, then you wont need to deal with getting external/internal formats and creating the inmem -- a lot easier/simple to transform the rays |
| 22:49.47 | *** join/#brlcad DTRemenak (n=DTRemena@DHCP-170-143.caltech.edu) | |
| 23:30.31 | CIA-6 | BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/other/awf/pass2.base: support ./" and .\" as an awf comment |
| 23:32.38 | CIA-6 | BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/BUGS: our awf now supports ./" comments in addition to .\" ones |
| 23:37.45 | CIA-6 | BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/NEWS: fixed brlman/awf `./"' unsupported or unknown issue |
| 23:51.15 | pra5ad | how can check if crond is running jobs correctly |
| 23:51.55 | ``Erik | it sends you email about what it's doing? o.O |
| 23:52.15 | *** join/#brlcad igotbsd (n=ricardo@adsl-10-15-31.mia.bellsouth.net) | |
| 23:52.23 | pra5ad | eh |
| 23:52.35 | pra5ad | by default? |
| 23:52.44 | ``Erik | yes |
| 23:52.56 | ``Erik | stdout and stderr get emailed to the user the cron job belongs to |
| 23:53.44 | pra5ad | hmm dont have an account setup |
| 23:54.52 | ``Erik | the cronjob has to belong to a user... |
| 23:58.14 | pra5ad | can i do this: explicitly append to /var/log/messages from the script in /etc/cron.hourly ? |
| 23:58.47 | ``Erik | uhmmmm, |
| 23:59.08 | ``Erik | if you can find or write something that sends to syslog, and pipe the output of cron.hourly crap to it? |
| 23:59.19 | ``Erik | I d'no if cron itself will talk to syslog directly |
| 00:00.21 | ``Erik | I see no documentation indicating that it can talk syslog |
| 00:04.22 | pra5ad | localhost sshd[27432] reverse mapping checking getaddrinfo for public-s.com failed - POSSIBLE BREAKIN ATTEMPT! |
| 00:04.22 | pra5ad | localhost sshd[27432] (pam_unix) authentication failure; logname= uid=0 euid=0 tty=ssh ruser= rhost=211.125.70.86 user=root |
| 00:04.22 | pra5ad | localhost sshd[27432] Failed password for root from 211.125.70.86 port 52662 ssh2 |
| 00:04.29 | pra5ad | :0 |
| 00:04.43 | *** part/#brlcad igotbsd (n=ricardo@adsl-10-15-31.mia.bellsouth.net) | |
| 00:06.06 | pra5ad | localhost /USR/SBIN/CRON[22486] (root) CMD ( run-parts --report /etc/cron.hourly) |
| 00:06.15 | pra5ad | is run every hour |
| 00:06.19 | pra5ad | hrm |
| 00:07.35 | pra5ad | run-parts isnt finding the script in cron.hourly |
| 00:08.59 | docelic | pra5ad which script ? |
| 00:09.41 | pra5ad | it's my own ( blah.sh ) with 755 |
| 00:10.01 | pra5ad | i can explicitly call it and it runs fine |
| 00:10.18 | docelic | does it have #!/bin/sh at the top ? |
| 00:10.24 | pra5ad | yes |
| 00:12.30 | docelic | strange.. There's surely an obvious explanation, though :) |
| 00:14.15 | pra5ad | hah |
| 00:14.27 | pra5ad | it didnt like '_' in the filename |
| 00:14.30 | pra5ad | :\ |
| 00:14.35 | pra5ad | all is well |
| 00:15.36 | pra5ad | or perhaps the length.. whatever =) |
| 01:16.58 | justin_ | 1/2" drywall is great for the biceps |
| 04:10.03 | brlcad | pra5ad: i get a couple dozen various sorts of ssh intrusion attempts a day on the server, nothing abnormal unfortunately |
| 04:10.39 | brlcad | important to disable root/admin ssh though and ensure you have decent passwords at the least |
| 04:18.20 | *** join/#brlcad PrezKennedy (n=Apathy@pcp010175pcs.dover01.de.comcast.net) | |
| 04:38.21 | *** join/#brlcad Weyland (n=4692492d@bz.bzflag.bz) | |
| 04:39.29 | brlcad | updating just about every file, that time of year again |
| 04:40.00 | Weyland | newbie here |
| 04:40.07 | brlcad | hello Weyland |
| 04:40.19 | Weyland | few "poke around" type questions if I can |
| 04:40.23 | Weyland | Hi~! |
| 04:40.53 | brlcad | fire away, someone's usually around to answer.. i'm usually around and will answer eventually |
| 04:41.39 | Weyland | First, forgive me of this is in the PDFs or somewhere else... I saw the IRC channel and thought to ask and interact |
| 04:41.45 | Weyland | thanks |
| 04:42.10 | Weyland | Can BRLCAD create files that can be used by a CAM system like MasterCAM? |
| 04:42.49 | brlcad | no problem |
| 04:42.52 | brlcad | feel free to hang out ;) |
| 04:43.02 | brlcad | (with a real irc client eventually, of course) |
| 04:43.15 | Weyland | Ah, hold on, I can do that... |
| 04:43.19 | brlcad | brl-cad has exporters for a variety of geometry formats |
| 04:43.37 | brlcad | more than likely, one of them is one that mastercam can read |
| 04:43.57 | Weyland | is there a link to an html list of them or do I need to keep opening pdfs? |
| 04:44.20 | brlcad | g-acad g-dxf g-euclid1 g-jack g-nmg g-off g-stl g-vrml |
| 04:44.23 | brlcad | g-adrt g-euclid g-iges g-nff g-obj g-shell.rect g-tankill g-x3d |
| 04:44.46 | Weyland | kewl - stl adn iges |
| 04:44.49 | brlcad | dxf, iges, stl, and obj are highly likely |
| 04:44.51 | Weyland | and* |
| 04:44.58 | Weyland | kewl |
| 04:44.59 | Weyland | thanks |
| 04:45.18 | Weyland | here, lemme get a client running and come back |
| 04:45.30 | brlcad | mind you that those are all explicit/facetized geometry formats, not implicit like brl-cad prefers |
| 04:45.46 | brlcad | but they'll usually get the job done |
| 04:45.48 | brlcad | sure |
| 04:46.25 | *** join/#brlcad weyland (n=weyland@adsl-146-73-45.mia.bellsouth.net) | |
| 04:46.31 | weyland | better? |
| 04:46.58 | brlcad | :) |
| 04:47.03 | weyland | :) |
| 04:47.05 | weyland | okay... |
| 04:47.30 | weyland | realistically, how does BRLCAD compare to SolidWorks? |
| 04:47.45 | weyland | or is there a comparison? |
| 04:47.48 | brlcad | heh, that's a pretty involved question ;) |
| 04:47.59 | weyland | Well, let me back up a minute |
| 04:48.07 | brlcad | lemme see if I can find a link -- i went into some detail on a message thread somewhere |
| 04:48.32 | weyland | I've been using SW and MasterCAM for a while and really like SW, and deal with mcam |
| 04:48.42 | weyland | okay, kewl |
| 04:49.01 | weyland | BUT~! I'm always looking for ways to do things natively in Linux... |
| 04:49.20 | weyland | and have been looking for a good solid modeller in linux for some time |
| 04:49.36 | brlcad | brl-cad will feel incredibly different in some respects .. it was designed for different purposes and with different methodologies |
| 04:49.39 | weyland | SW is (for me) very quick and easy |
| 04:49.47 | brlcad | that said, both can and do get the job done and are in production use |
| 04:50.06 | weyland | I don't mind different methods |
| 04:50.23 | weyland | it's the results and ease of use that matter to me |
| 04:50.59 | weyland | after that, it's keeping on the lookout for ways to completely shed any ties to windows |
| 04:51.24 | weyland | Well... after making sure to remain productive at the shop :) |
| 04:51.52 | brlcad | here's one relevant thread: http://sourceforge.net/forum/forum.php?thread_id=1273540&forum_id=362509 |
| 04:51.56 | weyland | Also, is BRL-CAD parametric? |
| 04:52.15 | brlcad | brl-cad has the results, long long history of them |
| 04:52.46 | brlcad | the ease of use depends on who you talk to -- from a sw background, you probably won't find it easy to use at least at first |
| 04:53.36 | weyland | kewl, honesty. *THAT* I can work with... :) |
| 04:54.04 | weyland | <PROTECTED> |
| 04:54.25 | brlcad | mged is the primary modeler in brl-cad, one of about 400 tools in all |
| 04:54.40 | weyland | In the end, I'll evaluate it anyway. I'm just looking for some insights up front |
| 04:54.59 | brlcad | mged's interface leaves much to be desired, but it gets the job done for the experts quickly |
| 04:55.22 | brlcad | new users tend to cry for a couple weeks, then start to appreciate it after they make it through the training |
| 04:55.47 | brlcad | brl-cad does not have decent support for parametrics or expressions yet if that's what you meant |
| 04:56.02 | brlcad | it's on the to do list |
| 04:56.09 | weyland | what I mean is this - |
| 04:56.30 | brlcad | it's not a brep modeler either ;) |
| 04:56.42 | brlcad | though brep support is improving |
| 04:57.22 | brlcad | it's very strongly implicit modeling based, CSG hierarchies from top to bottom |
| 04:57.33 | weyland | In SW, I can choose a "feature" and change it's "properties" to change its size, and if there are other features that are linked to that one, they will all change similarly, without my having to go and choose each one individually. |
| 04:57.49 | weyland | Does BRL-CAD have something similar? |
| 04:58.14 | weyland | brep is not something I'm familiar with. definition? |
| 04:58.43 | brlcad | that's parametrics and expressions, getting geometry to tie to other geometry and automatically resolve updates |
| 04:58.52 | brlcad | it's a hot topic and wanted feature, but not yet a reality |
| 04:59.02 | weyland | okay. |
| 04:59.32 | weyland | is there an expected timeline? |
| 05:00.10 | brlcad | with the nature of open source, hard to say -- depends a lot on the drive of the community |
| 05:00.17 | weyland | understood |
| 05:00.47 | weyland | just poking around, trying to get an idea of what's been going on and how things have been moving |
| 05:01.10 | brlcad | that and managing the time constraints with the other priorities going on -- like the last couple months have been heavy getting the Windows port merged in cleanly |
| 05:01.23 | weyland | :) |
| 05:02.17 | weyland | I've been using EMC as a maching controller, and there's a similar situation with regard to getting threading for lathe going. |
| 05:03.31 | brlcad | there was a couple guys highly interested in coupling brl-cad to emc or having it export gcode directly or indirectly for a while, the interests ebb and flow |
| 05:03.56 | weyland | it would probably help both of you greatly |
| 05:04.10 | weyland | EMC is really, really good |
| 05:04.22 | weyland | weird learning curve, but worht it. |
| 05:04.47 | brlcad | with the way most things in brl-cad are isolated into commands, writing bridges usually becomes a matter of writing an exporter |
| 05:06.27 | weyland | right, right |
| 05:07.19 | brlcad | biggest project under development right now is a revamped modeling interface, since that is brl-cad's weakest link generally speaking |
| 05:07.38 | weyland | you mean like a better gui? |
| 05:07.49 | brlcad | for all the mged does very well, there are several simple things from just an interface perspective that make it a pita |
| 05:07.54 | brlcad | indeed I do |
| 05:08.30 | weyland | right... I understand... still, I (personally) don't mind overmuch a CLI box |
| 05:09.26 | weyland | SW *is* really nice in that its GUI is very quick and intuitive, but I don't mind a CLI if it is quick and good as well |
| 05:09.53 | brlcad | the cli isn't going away, just a matter of making the gui-side much better and making the cli more discoverable as well |
| 05:10.00 | weyland | kewl |
| 05:10.11 | brlcad | the cli as it stands is probably mged's strongest point |
| 05:10.50 | brlcad | several of brl-cad's expert modelers swear by it saying there are things they can do with it that they can't even begin to approach in pro/e, unigraphics |
| 05:10.51 | weyland | CLI's usually are :) |
| 05:11.11 | weyland | hmmm... okay |
| 05:11.22 | brlcad | it is a fully scriptable and extendable environment as well |
| 05:12.02 | weyland | I'm thinking that BRL-CAd is probably MUCH more powerful than *I'LL* ever need, but I'm still intrested |
| 05:12.55 | weyland | Basically, I really would love to find something Linux based for my modelling |
| 05:13.39 | weyland | SW is pretty much perfect for me, save for the windows thing... |
| 05:14.20 | brlcad | learning to model using csg operations as your primary technique is often the hard part for users coming from a brep modeler like solidworks |
| 05:14.58 | weyland | If you guys ever did get BRL-CAD to do CAM output (with or without EMC interface) THAT would be the cat's pajamas~! |
| 05:15.01 | brlcad | yeah, trust me.. supporting windows isn't at the top of my list, but the masses do speak loudly and frequently |
| 05:15.25 | brlcad | heh |
| 05:15.47 | weyland | CSG? BREP? where can I find these defs? |
| 05:16.05 | weyland | I'm not "trained" so miss a lot of meanings |
| 05:16.54 | brlcad | moderately simple introduction to CSG on wikipedia and other places on the web |
| 05:16.59 | brlcad | http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Constructive_solid_geometry iirc |
| 05:17.08 | weyland | Ah, okay, kewl |
| 05:18.22 | brlcad | one or two bullets on various techniques here: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Solid_modeling |
| 05:19.05 | brlcad | most modelers are some sort of hybrid system, even brl-cad, though brl-cad still has a massive foundation on CSG |
| 05:19.56 | brlcad | whereas may of the other systems tend to promote feature brep modeling with parametrics |
| 05:21.15 | weyland | AH~! Brep~! Now I get it. |
| 05:21.42 | weyland | yes... brep + parametrics = sw |
| 05:21.45 | weyland | got it |
| 05:22.16 | weyland | actually very good articles |
| 05:22.40 | brlcad | the fundamental mathematiccal differences are usually explicit vs implicit modeling, which is a little more involved to explain |
| 05:24.26 | weyland | Well, I think I'll play around with it for a bit and see what happens |
| 05:24.40 | weyland | Thanks very much for your time and efforts |
| 05:24.41 | brlcad | you found the tutorial manuals? |
| 05:24.48 | weyland | PDFs? |
| 05:24.51 | brlcad | on the website |
| 05:24.53 | brlcad | yeah |
| 05:25.01 | brlcad | volume II in particular for getting started with mged |
| 05:25.16 | weyland | yes, was using the first one and doing the sphere excercise |
| 05:25.17 | brlcad | you won't likely be able to just jump in without going through some of the tutorials |
| 05:25.26 | weyland | no chance :) |
| 05:25.44 | weyland | no offense - but it's not at all intuitive :) |
| 05:25.53 | brlcad | no offense taken |
| 05:25.55 | brlcad | i agree |
| 05:26.08 | weyland | still, it didn't take but a few minutes to get a few pages in of the tutorial |
| 05:26.15 | brlcad | that's why a new modeler interface is a long-term-priority |
| 05:26.31 | weyland | that's how I learned both SW and Mcam |
| 05:26.41 | weyland | from the tutorials |
| 05:27.27 | weyland | not that I really *know* either one, but I can use them for my purposes. |
| 05:28.16 | weyland | Are you aware of anyone actually using BRL-CAD in a production machinine shop environment? |
| 05:28.33 | brlcad | hmm |
| 05:28.36 | weyland | - I'm a one man shop |
| 05:28.55 | weyland | oops - machine shop |
| 05:29.04 | brlcad | nobody specific comes to mind, but that's consdierably outside my realm of contacts :) |
| 05:29.13 | weyland | okay, kewl |
| 05:29.18 | weyland | thought to ask |
| 05:29.54 | brlcad | there have been folks askeing specifically about cam/machining purposes |
| 05:30.07 | brlcad | so I'd imagine yes as they are questions on use, not just passive interest |
| 05:30.41 | weyland | actually, thinking on it, you might wanna get with the EMC guys and offer the package for inclusion with the EMC releases/CDs |
| 05:30.44 | brlcad | more than happy to make brl-cad be what it needs to for it though ;) |
| 05:30.57 | weyland | Good to hear :) |
| 05:31.10 | brlcad | i spoke with the emc guys early last year for a little while |
| 05:31.28 | brlcad | and there is mutual interest |
| 05:31.36 | weyland | some new guys (really good guys, too) are involved these days |
| 05:31.44 | brlcad | it's more a matter of getting more than myself interested involved in the actual coding ;) |
| 05:31.45 | weyland | I think it could really benefit both of you |
| 05:31.50 | weyland | :) |
| 05:32.40 | brlcad | there are a couple major areas like that we can/should be more inolved with (FEA anyone?) but are strapped for time/people |
| 05:32.41 | weyland | GraphiteOne was included and people started using it just because it was there. |
| 05:32.44 | pra5ad | brlcad is just lazy |
| 05:32.52 | weyland | lol |
| 05:33.00 | weyland | I know I tried it. |
| 05:33.05 | weyland | hated it, but I tried it |
| 05:33.08 | brlcad | ~lart pra5ad |
| 05:33.17 | weyland | lol |
| 05:34.01 | weyland | Kinematics would be fantastic |
| 05:34.04 | weyland | :) |
| 05:34.18 | brlcad | there is rudimentary kinematics support actually |
| 05:34.26 | weyland | and while yer at it, an open bar would be great too |
| 05:34.33 | brlcad | not simple to use, but it's there -- has been used to make some movies |
| 05:34.42 | pra5ad | we only serve sake |
| 05:34.44 | pra5ad | just a heads up |
| 05:34.45 | weyland | kewlio, didn't know that |
| 05:34.53 | weyland | lol |
| 05:34.58 | weyland | Damn. No Mead? |
| 05:35.05 | brlcad | mm.. |
| 05:35.21 | pra5ad | talk to ``Erik the mad for mead |
| 05:35.32 | weyland | brewing some now |
| 05:35.43 | weyland | drinking some always |
| 05:35.49 | brlcad | :) |
| 05:36.22 | weyland | Well, gotta go, but I thank you for the honest info |
| 05:36.30 | weyland | I'll be baq, I'm sure |
| 05:36.32 | brlcad | no problem |
| 05:36.43 | weyland | I'll check in here from time to time |
| 05:36.48 | brlcad | keep an eye here or on the brlcad-news mailing list for announcements ;) |
| 05:36.57 | weyland | will do |
| 05:36.59 | weyland | Thanks |
| 05:37.02 | weyland | nite |
| 05:37.06 | brlcad | cya |
| 05:46.45 | brlcad | heh, seriously? need more then |
| 05:55.19 | CIA-6 | BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/ (276 files in 47 dirs): fix the manpage commments via s/\.\/"/.\\\"/g |
| 05:59.18 | *** join/#brlcad PKMOBILE (n=Apathy@pcp010175pcs.dover01.de.comcast.net) | |
| 06:20.53 | CIA-6 | BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/misc/cvs2cl.pl: revert inadvertent mod that will break the script |
| 06:22.29 | CIA-6 | BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/other/libtcl/library/safe.tcl: revert inadvertent mod |
| 06:27.58 | CIA-6 | BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/other/tkimg/base/configure: no need to put configure in cvs, especially if we're not using it |
| 06:29.28 | CIA-6 | BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/other/libtcl/unix/tclUnixFile.c: revert |
| 06:31.13 | CIA-6 | BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/libtclcad/tclcadAutoPath.c: revert |
| 06:32.55 | CIA-6 | BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/other/libtcl/win/configure: don't need configure, can be generated |
| 06:33.19 | CIA-6 | BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/other/libtcl/win/tclWinFCmd.c: revert |
| 06:34.07 | CIA-6 | BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/other/libtcl/tools/configure: don't need configure, can be generated |
| 06:36.31 | PKMOBILE | (01:33:46) Enigma Geist: This "chuck kennedy" the site talks about... |
| 06:36.31 | PKMOBILE | (01:33:52) MK: thats my dad |
| 06:36.32 | PKMOBILE | (01:34:47) Enigma Geist: Kermit's your dad? O.O |
| 06:36.32 | PKMOBILE | (01:34:53) MK: yeah |
| 06:36.32 | PKMOBILE | (01:35:00) Enigma Geist: *jaw drops* |
| 06:36.47 | PKMOBILE | i dont get it i swear! |
| 06:39.52 | CIA-6 | BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/other/libtk/unix/configure: don't need configure in cvs |
| 06:40.55 | CIA-6 | BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/other/libtcl/generic/ (tclFileName.c tclIOUtil.c): revert |
| 06:41.55 | CIA-6 | BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/other/libtk/win/configure: don't need configure in cvs |
| 06:43.59 | CIA-6 | BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/tclscripts/fs_dialog.tk: revert |
| 06:51.20 | brlcad | PKMOBILE: heh |
| 06:52.54 | PKMOBILE | i think hes starting to get old... he had me doing all these diagnostics trying to figure out why we couldnt connect to play a game and it turns out he disconnected his computer from the network the night before |
| 06:53.29 | brlcad | mmm heh |
| 06:54.34 | CIA-6 | BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/other/ (iwidgets/configure libz/configure): don't need configure in cvs |
| 06:55.16 | PKMOBILE | brlcad, did you ever put in that request for them to restore the database or should i redo it from scratch or what? |
| 07:03.56 | PKMOBILE | i could also just pretty up the static page too |
| 07:07.45 | brlcad | er, i did and they did |
| 07:09.06 | brlcad | it's in a file iirc on node1 |
| 07:10.32 | PKMOBILE | oops |
| 07:10.36 | PKMOBILE | didnt get the memo :-P |
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| 20:53.49 | pier | brlcad |
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| 21:42.32 | cad692 | Just want to confirm .... was I told yesterday that Windows distribution is anticipated within a few weeks? |
| 21:51.43 | archivist | thats what the man said and why didnt you wait for an answer |
| 23:33.56 | brlcad | archivist: heh indeed |
| 23:34.52 | archivist | impatient people, they just dont know the ways of irc |
| 00:37.54 | archivist | our computers do most of the lurking for us |
| 01:09.52 | ``Erik | *autolurk* |
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| 01:29.24 | ``Erik | argle blargle nawdle zous |
| 01:48.00 | pra5ad | what he said |
| 01:50.54 | justin_ | mmm, only 3 pieces of drywall left |
| 01:51.18 | justin_ | the disturbing part is the gym is going to require 3x this work |
| 01:56.50 | tegtmeye | what is a gym for? never heard of one before |
| 01:57.03 | tegtmeye | <- munching on a twinky |
| 01:58.52 | ``Erik | hah |
| 01:59.44 | justin_ | bah, I have no junk food |
| 02:01.13 | justin_ | I think I will start installing drop ceiling on thursday |
| 02:01.47 | tegtmeye | mmmmm calcium sulfate (in best Homer voice) |
| 02:02.12 | justin_ | I wish my promotion would hurry up and go through, I want to bring in my homer slippers |
| 02:03.23 | justin_ | with liquid air foot cooling system |
| 02:03.49 | tegtmeye | lol |
| 02:04.36 | tegtmeye | I'll get you the water powered pecking bird for your keyboard as a promotion gift |
| 02:04.59 | justin_ | ooh |
| 02:05.37 | justin_ | if I get 2, I'd get twice the work done |
| 02:06.47 | justin_ | mike, when we make liquid air, we can be cool and overclock our processors to 10 gigglehurts |
| 02:07.02 | justin_ | and watch them blow a hole through the building |
| 02:07.20 | tegtmeye | as long as i can get a really big exhaust pipe for my computer |
| 02:07.26 | pra5ad | b238? halleluah! |
| 02:07.38 | justin_ | I got dibs on a big tail fin |
| 02:07.52 | justin_ | (with racing stripes) |
| 02:08.00 | tegtmeye | type 'R' |
| 02:08.09 | justin_ | for Riceronni |
| 02:09.18 | justin_ | first thing I do when I become filthy rich, is slap a fin on the trooper, and make it a big R/C car |
| 02:10.18 | justin_ | and uses my ray-tracing engine to target innocent pedestrians to shoot nerf arrows at |
| 02:10.44 | tegtmeye | lol |
| 02:11.18 | tegtmeye | 1 millliion innocent bystanders per sec... |
| 02:11.41 | justin_ | indeed |
| 02:12.04 | justin_ | with SSE instructions I could shoot 4 pedestrians at once! |
| 02:16.16 | justin_ | dried seamonkey's |
| 03:42.35 | justin_ | I need to get me one of them new fangled graphics cards |
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| 06:43.22 | CIA-6 | BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/sh/copyright.sh: |
| 06:43.23 | CIA-6 | BRL-CAD: convert/update the copyright script from a BSD sed using the -E option for |
| 06:43.23 | CIA-6 | BRL-CAD: extended regular expressions (an option which the GNU sed doesn't recognize). |
| 06:43.23 | CIA-6 | BRL-CAD: convert the sed expressions to basic regular expressions instead so it works |
| 06:43.24 | CIA-6 | BRL-CAD: with either without needing to test sed for option support or limiting to one |
| 06:43.25 | CIA-6 | BRL-CAD: versus the other. |
| 06:44.09 | *** join/#brlcad DTRemenak (n=DTRemena@DHCP-170-143.caltech.edu) | |
| 06:46.46 | CIA-6 | BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/ (1646 files in 72 dirs): update copyright to 2006 |
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| 14:23.25 | MaDrense | hi |
| 14:23.41 | MaDrense | can BRL-CAD be used as a C++ modelling kernel ? |
| 14:23.53 | MaDrense | similar to Spatial's ACIS or Open Cascade ? |
| 14:33.37 | brlcad | MaDrense: hello and yes/no |
| 14:34.55 | brlcad | MaDrense: there is a relatively simple API to the geometry services in BRL-CAD |
| 14:36.28 | brlcad | for creating geometry only, there is libwdb (Write DataBase library) which is a set of C functions that create geometry, e.g. mk_sph() to create a sphere |
| 14:37.57 | MaDrense | and does it have csg functions ?! |
| 14:38.06 | MaDrense | do they operate on the mesh ? |
| 15:07.55 | brlcad | er |
| 15:07.58 | brlcad | yes and yes |
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| 16:11.10 | cad648 | I've been having trouble with IRC. Just want to confirm: was I told days ago Windows release was anticipated "in a few weeks" |
| 16:13.10 | archivist | so why are you asking again |
| 16:15.31 | cad648 | Because I've been having trouble with IRC ... asking into the void (or so it seems). |
| 16:15.55 | cad648 | and because I didn't note down the previous answer |
| 16:20.20 | archivist | well have patience 2-3 weeks is not too long |
| 16:21.20 | cad648 | Thanks ... just wanted to double check and copy to the bosses. |
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| 18:09.53 | brlcad | pier: pong |
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| 19:35.23 | pier | brlcad |
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| 19:45.04 | CIA-13 | BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/archer/ (5 files in 5 dirs): include the files in the distribution |
| 19:46.58 | brlcad | pier: best to just ask/speak :) I'll respond |
| 19:47.53 | pier | ok sorry, it is about the II vol |
| 19:49.04 | pier | I'm running through some problem with html conversion from pdf format |
| 19:49.16 | brlcad | eekage |
| 19:49.21 | brlcad | i can imagine |
| 19:49.27 | brlcad | i wouldn't start with that ;) |
| 19:49.32 | pier | I wanted to preserve the template of the document as well as the figures and so on |
| 19:50.22 | brlcad | how about I provide the document in word format, convert from that to html first |
| 19:50.30 | pier | the program I've found doesn't want to compile and all I've got is pure txt |
| 19:50.50 | pier | that woud b great |
| 19:51.30 | brlcad | let me see if I can find it |
| 19:51.57 | pier | ok |
| 20:01.56 | brlcad | found the files, but waiting from another guy to see which file is the "latest" |
| 20:02.36 | pier | ok |
| 20:23.42 | pier | si, la linguetta americana, a mezza luna anche detta woodruff key |
| 20:58.36 | ``Erik | (yeah, it was the mime type) |
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| 21:05.23 | CIA-13 | BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/doc/html/manuals/ (Makefile.am archer/Makefile.am): include missing stuff in the distribution, add the Makefile.defs for fast builds |
| 21:10.03 | pier | ? |
| 21:10.06 | brlcad | at least how la linguetta americana has anything to do with woodruff keys :) |
| 21:10.30 | brlcad | found the file |
| 21:10.31 | pier | sorry typed into the wrong window :( |
| 21:10.34 | brlcad | i know :) |
| 21:10.37 | pier | ok |
| 21:11.35 | pier | how can I get hold of it? :) |
| 21:15.09 | brlcad | exporting, give me a couple minutes |
| 21:16.20 | pier | take it easy |
| 21:26.36 | brlcad | okay, good to go |
| 22:11.20 | *** part/#brlcad pier (n=pier@151.56.217.136) | |
| 22:32.13 | ``Erik | brlcad, 7.6.8 ? |
| 22:41.55 | brlcad | ``Erik: yeah |
| 22:42.04 | brlcad | debating it today |
| 22:42.37 | brlcad | i wasn't going to make a jan release, letting Dec/Jan be our one "downtime" longer iteration |
| 22:51.47 | brlcad | but then 'someone' complained, so I've been thinking how to do it without stopping what i'm already doing |
| 23:01.10 | ``Erik | heh, 'someone'? o.O |
| 00:19.58 | CIA-13 | BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/configure.ac: |
| 00:19.58 | CIA-13 | BRL-CAD: search for the tcl/tk stub libraries too, and utilize them accordingly if |
| 00:19.58 | CIA-13 | BRL-CAD: someone asks for a system tcl or tk. for now, presume that tcl+tclstub and |
| 00:19.58 | CIA-13 | BRL-CAD: tk+tkstub always exist together or at least that it'll link regardless. |
| 00:34.56 | CIA-13 | BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/bwish/main.c: modify the auto_path as soon as we have the tcl interpreter so that even resources like tk.tcl may be found when mixing system/non-system tcl with other system/non-system components |
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| 02:08.39 | CIA-13 | BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/archer/archer: have archer search the current directory for tclscripts in case we're not installed |
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| 04:05.51 | justin_ | haha |
| 04:05.56 | justin_ | first article on slashdot |
| 04:06.37 | CIA-13 | BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/TODO: mingw is once again delayed a release, archer rises to the list for the current distribution |
| 04:14.18 | CIA-13 | BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/TODO: support for features either as primitives or operations or both, e.g. chamfer, fillet, round |
| 04:28.44 | pra5ad | link |
| 04:29.57 | CIA-13 | BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/TODO: system identifier application with sysctl-style information database |
| 04:31.50 | CIA-13 | BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/TODO: justin's idea of a librt-based path tracer is pretty cool |
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| 04:40.12 | CIA-13 | BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/m4/epsilon.m4: while it's bizarre for them to be different, only report a failure to conform if the implementation is epsilon is less than the expected power |
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| 12:24.26 | d_rossberg | what's the plan with HAVE_CONFIG_H ? |
| 12:25.14 | d_rossberg | you need it for every brlcad application, e.g. http://brlcad.org/rtexample.c |
| 12:30.03 | d_rossberg | this define causes trouble for the users (developers are used to trouble) |
| 13:46.44 | learner | d_rossberg, the plan for it is to have it go away completely on an install, same for brlcad_config.h, like it is supposed to |
| 13:48.23 | learner | i believe i now have it so that the header file isn't used in common.h if it's installed so that brlcad_config.h may be left uninstalled |
| 13:48.33 | learner | but haven't fully checked |
| 13:59.28 | learner | even with the rtexample.c application, it only uses common.h -- which is supposed to hide the detail of whether you have the define or not and make it so that the config.h doesn't need to be installed for it to work |
| 14:00.13 | learner | this was broken for a few releases, requiring you to either provide the define, or add the header, or add a search dir |
| 14:00.30 | learner | shouldn't be the case on cvs head now though |
| 14:13.38 | d_rossberg | rtexample.c includes raytrace.h which includes bu.h which uses the time_t type which requires time.h which is only included if HAVE_TIME_H is defined so "config.h" is required |
| 14:15.33 | ``Erik | fucking fuckity fuck fuck fuck |
| 14:17.46 | d_rossberg | lerner: your goal is to distinguish between internal and external declarations |
| 14:18.18 | d_rossberg | common.h should provide the internal declarations only if required |
| 14:21.40 | ``Erik | sean, is justin there? |
| 14:21.50 | learner | d_rossberg: yes, a mistake in the bu.h header really |
| 14:22.04 | learner | ``Erik: i dunno |
| 14:22.14 | ``Erik | oh, you're not in the office, ok |
| 14:22.23 | ``Erik | I'm thinking about suckering someone into driving me around to buy a new car |
| 14:22.29 | ``Erik | *sigh* |
| 14:22.32 | learner | heh |
| 14:22.42 | ``Erik | I blew the tranny out on my truck this morning |
| 14:23.26 | d_rossberg | lernaer: what's the mistake, the time_t or the ifdef HAVE_TIME_H? |
| 14:23.33 | learner | d_rossberg: yes, that is the goal, and config.h is definitely a private header .. bu.h and other headers need to be fixed to remove the HAVE_ defines and system header includes if possible |
| 14:24.21 | learner | d_rossberg: probably both |
| 14:24.43 | learner | the ifdef is fine really, it just can't require what's in the ifdef |
| 14:25.28 | learner | well, half-fine -- bad things might then happen if a user provides HAVE_ defines and our header's logic doesn't behave |
| 14:25.35 | ``Erik | hey, sean, wanna take the day off, hang with a bud, and cruise by car sales lots? :D *Duck* |
| 14:25.55 | learner | heh |
| 14:26.39 | learner | possibly, though I can't take a day off this week .. already did :) |
| 14:27.04 | ``Erik | ah, and since you're contractor, I don't think I can donate leave to you |
| 14:28.51 | ``Erik | 6.2 miles... about 2 hrs |
| 14:31.40 | d_rossberg | lerner: at the moment, it looks like you need this defines |
| 14:32.31 | d_rossberg | lerner: hiding the internal structures, e.g. casts to void*, requires a large amount of work |
| 14:37.13 | learner | d_rossberg: i agree, but i do believe it to be the right long-term direction |
| 14:37.24 | learner | or do you have another idea? :) |
| 14:38.42 | learner | they should certainly work for internal, which they do now -- it's of course the public external header appearance that will take a fair bit of restructuring |
| 14:39.06 | learner | as I mentioned in the dev e-mail, the bigger problem in my view is the dependency ordering of the headers now |
| 14:39.30 | learner | e.g. *have* to include machine.h before anything, should include vmath.h before raytrace.h, etc |
| 14:40.05 | learner | the headers don't function stand-alone, and that I do believe needs fixing |
| 14:42.17 | d_rossberg | learner: that's the classical direction (bringing object orientation into c code) |
| 14:43.08 | d_rossberg | from my own experiance i can say: it ends with c++ classes :) |
| 14:45.39 | d_rossberg | but for now i'll start with adapting "my" projectfiles |
| 14:47.48 | ``Erik | phrack |
| 14:53.02 | Twingy | . |
| 15:08.48 | Twingy | heh |
| 15:08.53 | Twingy | where? |
| 15:10.43 | ``Erik | the new beamer lot |
| 15:11.17 | Twingy | how far? |
| 15:11.19 | ``Erik | y'know when you turn left from 543 to go to my house, then go through a stop light? it's at that light |
| 15:11.25 | ``Erik | a mile or two |
| 15:11.28 | ``Erik | by foot |
| 15:11.33 | Twingy | got a bike? |
| 15:11.35 | ``Erik | 4 or 5 walking, due to the road geomtry |
| 15:11.50 | ``Erik | no :( was actually talking sean and lee into helping me buy one a couple weeks ago |
| 15:11.50 | ``Erik | heh |
| 15:11.57 | Twingy | might not be a bad idea to pick one up at a nearby bike store? |
| 15:12.03 | Twingy | ah |
| 15:12.03 | ``Erik | (I'm a puss, I need people to hold my hand) |
| 15:12.42 | ``Erik | 'k, lemme think, drivers license, phone, and a copy of my salary w2 for proof of income/employment... damn I shouldn't have left my running shoes at work :( |
| 15:12.53 | Twingy | hrm |
| 15:13.00 | Twingy | maybe lease something new? |
| 15:13.09 | Twingy | why not do a 24 month lease on a new car? |
| 15:13.10 | ``Erik | well, they have new and used over there |
| 15:13.25 | ``Erik | I'll go see what they have, if anything grooves with me, I'll see how fast I can get the keys |
| 15:13.34 | Twingy | heh, k |
| 15:13.40 | ``Erik | I have like 15k to throw at it, I'm sure I'll get some wheels |
| 15:13.48 | Twingy | or finance something |
| 15:13.50 | Twingy | with 0 down |
| 15:13.58 | ``Erik | ooh, that reminds me, check book |
| 15:14.12 | ``Erik | ok, catch ya'll later |
| 15:14.40 | Twingy | later |
| 15:30.07 | brlcad | ``Erik: ping |
| 15:35.08 | CIA-13 | BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/other/tkimg/base/Makefile.am: missing trailing slash |
| 16:00.51 | CIA-13 | BRL-CAD: 03bob1961 * 10brlcad/src/tclscripts/archer/Archer.tcl: Minor tweaks to the _invoke_wizard_update and _init_obj_edit_view methods. |
| 17:42.05 | *** join/#brlcad raz (n=rarunaog@pool-141-156-220-116.res.east.verizon.net) | |
| 17:45.29 | raz | brlcad: how do you change the mged status from 'VIEWING' to a status in which we can edit the model? |
| 17:47.37 | brlcad | raz: depends on what you want to edit |
| 17:48.15 | brlcad | you can edit a primitive with 'sed' (solid edit), edit an object/combination with 'oed' |
| 17:48.32 | brlcad | selecting matrix edit or primitive edit on the menu will get you into an edit mode as well |
| 17:49.19 | brlcad | the 'sill' solid illuminate command will also take you into solid edit mode |
| 17:52.15 | raz | :brlcad we want to rotate everything in the ktank.g file |
| 18:14.34 | raz | brlcad:need to change the orientation of ktank.g |
| 19:07.35 | *** join/#brlcad pier (n=pier@151.56.230.176) | |
| 19:10.23 | *** part/#brlcad pier (n=pier@151.56.230.176) | |
| 19:10.40 | raz | exit |
| 19:20.03 | ``Erik | heh |
| 19:28.41 | *** join/#brlcad clock_ (n=clock@84-72-90-34.dclient.hispeed.ch) | |
| 19:32.12 | *** join/#brlcad PrezKennedy (n=Apathy@pcp010175pcs.dover01.de.comcast.net) | |
| 19:44.12 | Twingy | back? |
| 19:44.31 | ``Erik | yeah |
| 19:44.41 | Twingy | and? |
| 19:44.41 | brlcad | and? |
| 19:44.58 | ``Erik | drove a few cars, like 'em, but according to kbb and edmunds, they're overpriced |
| 19:45.06 | ``Erik | wondering if I should head down to another dealership |
| 19:45.10 | ``Erik | or two |
| 19:45.10 | Twingy | so you ARE getting the honda civic? |
| 19:45.15 | ``Erik | heh, no |
| 19:45.25 | ``Erik | I drove a cooper mini S, bmw 330xi, and bmw m3 |
| 19:45.30 | Twingy | ahh, you went with the honda element |
| 19:45.30 | ``Erik | the m3 is... nice. |
| 19:45.38 | Twingy | gonna finance? |
| 19:45.42 | ``Erik | yeah |
| 19:45.42 | brlcad | heh, of course it is :) |
| 19:45.53 | Twingy | only $500/mo? :) |
| 19:46.04 | ``Erik | the m3 would be more like 700/mo |
| 19:46.10 | Twingy | eww |
| 19:46.15 | Twingy | how much is that car?' |
| 19:46.17 | ``Erik | for a 3 yr |
| 19:46.20 | ``Erik | they're asking 36 |
| 19:46.43 | Twingy | 700 x 36 is $25k |
| 19:46.43 | ``Erik | 37, even |
| 19:46.51 | ``Erik | 10k down |
| 19:46.58 | Twingy | ah, heh |
| 19:47.02 | ``Erik | kbb says 34, edmunds says 31 |
| 19:47.03 | Twingy | too rich for my blood |
| 19:47.11 | ``Erik | dude, it's a rocket on wheels |
| 19:47.21 | Twingy | I don't need a rocket on wheels to get to work and back |
| 19:47.46 | Twingy | especially with half the trip at 40 mph :) |
| 19:49.26 | Twingy | call mike |
| 19:49.29 | ``Erik | ? |
| 19:49.38 | Twingy | he's rambling |
| 19:49.50 | ``Erik | you call him |
| 19:49.51 | ``Erik | he won't notice |
| 19:49.57 | Twingy | good point |
| 19:50.23 | Twingy | ah, he left on his own, boggle |
| 21:00.58 | *** join/#brlcad pier (n=pier@151.56.230.176) | |
| 21:35.49 | *** part/#brlcad pier (n=pier@151.56.230.176) | |
| 23:33.48 | ``Erik | damn I feel poor |
| 00:41.48 | CIA-13 | BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/librt/db_inmem.c: unused var |
| 01:08.31 | pra5ad | get a new ride yet? |
| 01:16.19 | brlcad | you got it? |
| 01:17.09 | ``Erik | ayup |
| 01:17.26 | ``Erik | it's purdee, and owie fast |
| 01:19.10 | pra5ad | nice =) |
| 01:19.11 | ``Erik | and, damnit, my intent was to show up tomorrow and say I bought a car real quick and try to trick people into thinking it was a beater |
| 01:19.48 | ``Erik | http://www.cardomain.com/member_pages/show_image.pl?bg=CCCCCC&image=http://memimage.cardomain.net/member_images/3/web/2043000-2043999/2043648_1_full.jpg |
| 01:20.16 | ``Erik | http://www.diecastmuscle.com/images/common/thumbnail/375/aa70544c.jpg |
| 01:20.20 | ``Erik | http://www.diecastmuscle.com/images/common/thumbnail/375/aa70544.jpg |
| 01:20.56 | ``Erik | laguna seca blue, with grey leather interior, luxery package, winter package, moonroof, etc etc etc |
| 01:21.02 | ``Erik | now I'm poor. |
| 01:21.08 | ``Erik | but I have a bitchin' ride. |
| 01:23.57 | pra5ad | cant wait to join the club |
| 01:24.10 | brlcad | nice |
| 01:24.38 | ``Erik | the color grated on me at first, but I'm liking it more and more |
| 01:24.43 | ``Erik | I guess I'm driving to lunch tomorrow ;) |
| 01:50.54 | phcoder | damn - i won't see it 'til tuesday... |
| 01:50.57 | phcoder | nice |
| 01:53.13 | ``Erik | and I'm gonna park it as close to the front door as possible. Bitch. :D |
| 01:53.19 | phcoder | haha! |
| 01:53.29 | phcoder | have fun. you get in too damn late. |
| 01:53.35 | phcoder | you'll never get a spot. |
| 01:53.39 | ``Erik | indeed |
| 01:53.46 | ``Erik | last week, I had to park in the grass :( |
| 01:53.48 | ``Erik | right next to rons car |
| 01:53.52 | phcoder | i saw that, jeez |
| 01:54.00 | ``Erik | auten did, too |
| 01:54.10 | ``Erik | maybe with this car, I'll wake up at 6am and go OMFGIWANTTODRIVE |
| 01:54.10 | phcoder | extra people in the compound or something? |
| 01:54.11 | ``Erik | :D |
| 01:54.14 | ``Erik | no clue |
| 01:54.17 | phcoder | :-) |
| 01:54.22 | phcoder | i would |
| 01:54.24 | ``Erik | I did two loops, john did one... we both went into the grass |
| 01:54.26 | phcoder | i love driving |
| 01:54.58 | ``Erik | I got sick of it... but it may've been because my truck was underpowered, had vibration issues (bad ujoint or something) and no radio... |
| 01:55.05 | ``Erik | I d'no |
| 01:55.07 | ``Erik | I'm giddy |
| 01:55.11 | ``Erik | I spent the last hour sitting in it |
| 01:55.12 | phcoder | yeah - you get xm? |
| 01:55.16 | phcoder | :-D |
| 01:55.20 | ``Erik | no |
| 01:55.24 | ``Erik | '01 |
| 01:55.28 | phcoder | 6 disc cd |
| 01:55.31 | ``Erik | check it out, dude, cassette tape in the dash |
| 01:55.31 | phcoder | ? |
| 01:55.37 | phcoder | it's an 01? |
| 01:55.38 | ``Erik | and 6 cd in the trunk |
| 01:55.39 | ``Erik | yeah |
| 01:55.40 | phcoder | not new? |
| 01:55.43 | ``Erik | no :( |
| 01:55.45 | ``Erik | I'm po' |
| 01:55.47 | phcoder | still looks sweet |
| 01:55.49 | ``Erik | and I needed something NOW |
| 01:55.53 | ``Erik | 29k miles |
| 01:55.58 | ``Erik | so not too far from new |
| 01:55.59 | phcoder | dude - it's a f'n sweet car |
| 01:56.04 | phcoder | who cares if its not new |
| 01:56.15 | phcoder | no kidding |
| 01:56.20 | ``Erik | cold weather package, luxury package, moon roof, ... |
| 01:56.21 | phcoder | that's pretty low for an 01 |
| 01:56.24 | ``Erik | was probably a 70k car new |
| 01:56.31 | phcoder | i'm over that for an 03 |
| 01:56.38 | phcoder | yeah |
| 01:57.16 | phcoder | how can you be po' ?? you don't have a kid ;-) |
| 01:57.27 | ``Erik | heh |
| 01:57.34 | phcoder | oh wait - all those microbrews ;-) |
| 01:57.36 | ``Erik | I dont' have a whif bringing in like 20 bucks a week, either |
| 01:57.37 | ``Erik | :D |
| 01:57.53 | phcoder | $20???????? |
| 01:57.56 | ``Erik | microbrews and copious consumption of high grade spirits. My booze budget took a hit today. |
| 01:57.58 | phcoder | that would be nice :-) |
| 01:58.12 | ``Erik | no more $200/mo :( |
| 01:58.24 | ``Erik | and I'll probably start bringing food in for lunch |
| 01:58.25 | ``Erik | heh |
| 01:58.27 | phcoder | nope |
| 01:58.29 | ``Erik | so po' |
| 01:58.36 | phcoder | which is good - cause you can't drink and drive |
| 01:58.50 | ``Erik | hopefully the machine is as intoxicating as the intoxicants |
| 01:58.59 | ``Erik | it's so damn prett |
| 01:59.00 | ``Erik | y |
| 01:59.01 | phcoder | should be |
| 01:59.14 | ``Erik | 6 gears, and every single one of them will get me in trouble |
| 01:59.20 | phcoder | can't wait to see it - we can all live vicariously through you |
| 01:59.23 | ``Erik | heh |
| 01:59.33 | phcoder | just don't kill it like your truck |
| 01:59.37 | ``Erik | or you can whup that whifs bottom until she brings home the bacon ;) |
| 01:59.43 | phcoder | yeah right |
| 01:59.45 | ``Erik | oddly enough, I've felt no urge to floor it |
| 01:59.53 | phcoder | odd. yes. |
| 01:59.54 | ``Erik | and my truck got over 10 years |
| 01:59.55 | *** join/#brlcad DTRemenak (n=DTRemena@DHCP-170-143.caltech.edu) | |
| 02:00.16 | ``Erik | I think having rice stomping power at my disposal makes me... complacent |
| 02:00.21 | ``Erik | I don't need to prove anything with it |
| 02:00.30 | phcoder | heh |
| 02:00.36 | ``Erik | odd |
| 02:00.42 | ``Erik | but it's sooo damn pretty |
| 02:00.53 | phcoder | just wait till you pull up next to an a8 - they always want to race |
| 02:00.55 | phcoder | don't know why |
| 02:00.59 | ``Erik | heh |
| 02:01.14 | ``Erik | cuz some dumbass paid $80k for a v8 audi... they have to prove it's not a puss car |
| 02:01.16 | ``Erik | O:-) |
| 02:01.23 | phcoder | right |
| 02:02.10 | ``Erik | I have a feeling that I'm gonna be coming off of lights nice and easy, and morons will be bragging about roasting an m3 with their hopped up civic on fag boards |
| 02:02.21 | ``Erik | but, y'know, that's ok :) |
| 02:02.30 | phcoder | that's fun. cause you know it ain' |
| 02:02.33 | phcoder | t true |
| 02:02.35 | ``Erik | I have metal sex in my garage right now |
| 02:02.43 | phcoder | haha |
| 02:03.09 | ``Erik | still wanna fix my truck and drive it when ti's snowey/slushy/icy, tho |
| 02:03.27 | phcoder | might be a good idea, unless the fix costs too much |
| 02:03.36 | ``Erik | rather artard ran into the truck than the car when they figure out that 4wd on an suv doesn't mean it stops any better |
| 02:04.41 | ``Erik | <-- ponders switching the suspension to sport and turning off traction control on the drive to work tomorrow o.O |
| 02:04.46 | ``Erik | just to see what too fucking much is |
| 02:04.47 | ``Erik | :D |
| 02:05.04 | phcoder | "switching" ? |
| 02:05.08 | ``Erik | yeah |
| 02:05.17 | phcoder | damn thing can dynamically adjust suspension parameters? |
| 02:05.20 | ``Erik | the suspension has normal sports mode, th en another "super sports" mode |
| 02:05.26 | ``Erik | hit a button on the dash and it changes |
| 02:05.30 | phcoder | ha |
| 02:05.41 | CIA-13 | BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/liboptical/Makefile.am: heh, fPIC breaks irix compiler (they use DPIC) |
| 02:05.48 | ``Erik | several 'sporty' cars can do it, even 'vettes... |
| 02:06.13 | ``Erik | this car will make me it's bitch, I know it o.O |
| 02:06.28 | phcoder | watch out... |
| 02:06.29 | ``Erik | if I hadn't been drinking when I told my parents, I'd be driving right now |
| 02:06.48 | ``Erik | it's got almost as much hp as my old c10, and it's way smaller/lighter |
| 02:07.10 | ``Erik | and so many buttons |
| 02:07.13 | ``Erik | and pretty lights |
| 02:07.15 | ``Erik | and knobs |
| 02:15.04 | ``Erik | http://members.iinet.net.au/~pontipak/redsquare.html |
| 02:17.16 | pra5ad | whats the latest gl version for fbsd? |
| 02:17.22 | pra5ad | 1.5? |
| 02:17.24 | ``Erik | um, whatever comes with X |
| 02:17.31 | ``Erik | probably 1.5, unless you use the nvidia driver |
| 02:17.41 | pra5ad | hrm |
| 02:17.44 | ``Erik | which is like 1.4+ |
| 02:17.46 | ``Erik | iirc |
| 02:17.58 | pra5ad | arb promoted ext_vbo in 1.5 |
| 02:18.15 | pra5ad | wondering if i should build against that |
| 02:18.39 | ``Erik | you should look to see if it's available, at runtime, and provide a backup path if it is not |
| 02:18.40 | ``Erik | :) |
| 02:19.11 | pra5ad | vboARB(), yes.. but not the promoted ones (sans ARB postfix) |
| 02:19.19 | pra5ad | meh |
| 02:20.03 | pra5ad | ill stick to 1.4 spec |
| 02:20.26 | ``Erik | you're supporting windows... if you're not gonna do fallback paths, you should stick to 1.1... o.O :D |
| 02:21.38 | pra5ad | good point |
| 02:23.14 | ``Erik | a sad point, but *shrug* competition to d3d will not be tolerated O.o |
| 02:26.48 | pra5ad | that's going to be a major headache |
| 02:27.01 | pra5ad | at least im not using anything besides vbo |
| 02:27.02 | ``Erik | windows is a major headache, yes :) |
| 02:27.09 | ``Erik | well |
| 02:27.12 | pra5ad | (for now) |
| 02:27.18 | ``Erik | that's why you query and provide secondary paths |
| 02:27.26 | ``Erik | the drivers themselves support all this shit |
| 02:27.30 | ``Erik | it's just... hard to get to |
| 02:27.30 | pra5ad | that was the plan, until i saw the 1.5 spec |
| 02:28.03 | ``Erik | sdl even has cross platform query/lookup functions |
| 02:28.23 | ``Erik | not as slick as dlopen()/dlsym(), but windows won't let that happen :) |
| 02:29.21 | pra5ad | phew varrays are 1.1 |
| 02:32.54 | pra5ad | nooo rangeelements is 1.2 =( |
| 03:09.43 | *** join/#brlcad justin_ (n=justin@pcp0011649600pcs.aberdn01.md.comcast.net) | |
| 03:11.02 | justin_ | so what car are you getting? |
| 03:12.35 | pra5ad | * ``Erik pets his m3 |
| 03:15.29 | ``Erik | got me a bmw m3 |
| 03:15.37 | ``Erik | <-- does some pelvic thrusts |
| 03:25.26 | justin_ | what's that do to the new house purchase? |
| 03:27.25 | justin_ | how long of a lease |
| 03:30.34 | ``Erik | financing, not leasing, 5 yr, and it puts the house off a bit :( |
| 03:30.54 | ``Erik | in the long term, I fucked up... but it's so damn pretty... |
| 03:31.33 | justin_ | heh |
| 03:33.42 | ``Erik | I spoze once in a while, you just have to be stupid and enjoy life ;) |
| 03:34.06 | phcoder | else - why do you make money? :-P |
| 03:35.34 | justin_ | to fund a small research company when you get into your 40's :D |
| 03:35.45 | phcoder | that too... |
| 03:36.01 | ``Erik | ok, dude, you fund one, and bring me in as a parter ;) *duck* |
| 03:36.28 | justin_ | riiiight |
| 04:45.13 | brlcad | ow |
| 04:45.46 | brlcad | sweet car ``Erik |
| 04:45.53 | phcoder | they were already dead... |
| 04:46.09 | brlcad | they weren't even close to dead |
| 04:46.15 | brlcad | wasn't even sore |
| 04:46.17 | phcoder | "no sir, they're already dead" |
| 04:46.24 | brlcad | now they're dead |
| 04:46.27 | brlcad | and hurting |
| 04:46.36 | phcoder | haha |
| 04:47.28 | phcoder | :-) |
| 04:47.29 | brlcad | did a lot more bench too, that should be sore too now |
| 04:47.48 | phcoder | says "take a hike" |
| 04:47.55 | brlcad | but.. |
| 04:47.59 | phcoder | but? |
| 04:48.02 | brlcad | no straps |
| 04:48.07 | brlcad | someone must have walked off with them |
| 04:48.09 | phcoder | someone stole them |
| 04:48.18 | phcoder | unethical weak bastards |
| 04:48.23 | brlcad | rather "claimed" them |
| 04:48.26 | phcoder | sure |
| 04:48.42 | phcoder | "claim" is the operative word |
| 04:48.44 | phcoder | jeez |
| 04:50.03 | brlcad | some skinny guy passed out |
| 04:50.17 | brlcad | he was delerious for like 10 minutes |
| 04:50.26 | brlcad | then the paramedics came |
| 04:50.30 | phcoder | that's embarassing |
| 04:50.32 | brlcad | pretty eventful |
| 04:50.54 | brlcad | i can't quite figure out how, though, unless he was diabetic or something |
| 04:50.58 | phcoder | supposed to go to the men's room before passing out |
| 04:51.00 | brlcad | he was on the machines |
| 04:51.06 | phcoder | so the chicks can't see you do it |
| 04:51.09 | brlcad | near a pec deck of all things |
| 04:51.14 | phcoder | ? |
| 04:51.35 | brlcad | hard to "get dizzy" on the machines |
| 04:52.05 | phcoder | right |
| 04:52.06 | brlcad | not impossible, just.. harder (to me at least) |
| 04:52.31 | brlcad | now squats.. or deadlifts .. or legpress.. or cleans.. |
| 04:52.39 | brlcad | completely understandable :) |
| 04:53.33 | phcoder | yup |
| 08:47.40 | CIA-13 | BRL-CAD: 03d_rossberg * 10brlcad/ (5 files in 5 dirs): set HAVE_CONFIG_H to get internal declarations |
| 08:51.07 | CIA-13 | BRL-CAD: 03d_rossberg * 10brlcad/src/librt/librt.dsp: |
| 08:51.07 | CIA-13 | BRL-CAD: set HAVE_CONFIG_H to get internal declarations, |
| 08:51.07 | CIA-13 | BRL-CAD: db_flags.c, db_inmem.c added |
| 08:54.10 | CIA-13 | BRL-CAD: 03d_rossberg * 10brlcad/misc/win32-msvc/Dll/brlcad.rc: update copyright to 2006 |
| 09:18.47 | *** join/#brlcad clock_ (n=clock@zux221-122-143.adsl.green.ch) | |
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| 10:13.13 | *** join/#brlcad d_rossberg (n=rossberg@bz.bzflag.bz) | |
| 11:25.16 | pra5ad | mm no sleep |
| 11:25.34 | pra5ad | this is gonna be fun.. |
| 11:30.45 | *** join/#brlcad phcoder (n=phcoder@pcp0011650294pcs.aberdn01.md.comcast.net) | |
| 14:31.58 | Twingy | . |
| 15:48.54 | Twingy | b |
| 15:57.25 | Twingy | missed a good segment with john stewart making fun of the querbecois prime minister elections :) |
| 15:58.06 | Maloeran | Eh :), federal elections are a real joke as always |
| 16:00.36 | Maloeran | You wouldn't be good at finding the roots of 11th-13th degree polynomials, Justin? :) It must be my lack of formal math education, I'm not doing too well on this |
| 16:01.29 | Twingy | solve them numerically with newtons method |
| 16:01.43 | Maloeran | Just playing with curved surface equations to see if it's possible to get something to be solved directly, without Newton's or Laguerre's iterations, for ray intersections that is |
| 16:02.05 | Twingy | it can be shown you cannot solve them implicitly if the degree is higher than 3 |
| 16:02.37 | Maloeran | There are often other methods, but no generic solution, it depends of the problem |
| 16:02.41 | Twingy | if the roots are constants you could cache them |
| 16:04.55 | Maloeran | I have something that's relatively cheap to compute, and the first guesses would be good enough ( 2-3 Newton's iterations should do ), but I'm still dreaming of a solution solvable algebrically |
| 16:05.03 | Twingy | nope |
| 16:05.06 | Twingy | won't happen |
| 16:05.12 | Twingy | you learn this in calculus 1 |
| 16:05.57 | Twingy | can you make the problem piecewise cubic? |
| 16:06.14 | Twingy | then you can solve it algebraicly if you maintain C2 continuity |
| 16:06.31 | Maloeran | Fourth degree polynomials can be easily solved too, I'm exploring solutions still |
| 16:07.03 | Twingy | I suspect your cheapest route will be picewise cubic |
| 16:08.42 | Maloeran | Possibly... The equations can be fairly simple for primitive curved surfaces, it would be so elegant if it could be solved directly |
| 16:09.24 | Twingy | not gonna happen if you go above quartic |
| 16:10.32 | CIA-13 | BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/doc/README.MacOSX: build failure on os x 10.2 is a known issue |
| 16:12.05 | Maloeran | I thought some problems above 4th degree can be solved agebrically, under particular circumstances |
| 16:12.58 | Twingy | circumstances such as? |
| 16:13.37 | Twingy | mmm almost lunch time |
| 16:14.31 | Maloeran | Such as y = x^4-2 ? ;) Some Norwegian math PhD I briefly spoke to said the equations might be solvable, he would have required much time to verify this though |
| 16:15.02 | Maloeran | Ast's friend, if you followed #siggraph discussions |
| 16:15.29 | clock_ | Twingy: what does twingy mean? |
| 16:15.47 | Twingy | it means twingy |
| 16:16.44 | Twingy | you can solve that |
| 16:17.56 | Maloeran | I meant f(x)=x^5-2 or so, above 4th degree doesn't mean it can't be solved, but there's no generic solution |
| 16:22.44 | CIA-13 | BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/ (BUGS TODO): add bugs and feature requests observed during the 2005 winter brl-cad user training at survice. |
| 16:23.11 | Twingy | lunch |
| 16:26.13 | joevalleyfield | with one root solved by newton's method to some degree of accuracy, couldn't you use synthetic divisions to factor out that root and reduce the degree of everything else by 1 |
| 16:27.30 | Maloeran | I suppose, but considering it's for ray-tracing, the first intersection is likely to be all I need |
| 16:28.20 | joevalleyfield | so doubtful there is any better way to solve your first root than numeric approximation |
| 16:28.21 | Maloeran | Well Justin, I would be interested in discussing some ideas regarding the use of "meshes" of simple curved facets, sometimes during the week-end or so. Not as flexible as Nurbs, not as fast as triangles, but I think it's a fairly interesting compromise |
| 18:15.22 | *** join/#brlcad pier (n=pier@151.56.193.127) | |
| 18:18.05 | brlcad | Maloeran: if you're interested in trying the newtonian method quick-like, brl-cad's libbn has a simple root solver that does this |
| 18:18.56 | brlcad | does a variation of a newtonian search, simplification of polynomials, quick solutions for lower orders, and other methods, returning an array of the roots |
| 18:21.29 | joevalleyfield | may i buy a vowel? |
| 18:22.05 | brlcad | much better |
| 18:22.16 | brlcad | silly ?nic?de |
| 18:24.12 | *** part/#brlcad pier (n=pier@151.56.193.127) | |
| 18:49.01 | *** join/#brlcad pra5ad_work (n=803f2049@bz.bzflag.bz) | |
| 18:50.11 | *** join/#brlcad pra5ad_work (n=803f2049@bz.bzflag.bz) | |
| 18:50.27 | brlcad | b?rk! |
| 18:51.20 | Twingy | \/ping flood pra5ad_work |
| 18:51.25 | Twingy | :) |
| 19:03.33 | *** join/#brlcad pier (n=pier@151.56.193.127) | |
| 19:24.38 | ``Erik | just log in and sigterm him |
| 19:24.51 | ``Erik | or walk upstairs and sigterm him upside the head :D |
| 19:32.00 | pra5ad_work | i heard the m3 ping flooding, leaving grumpys |
| 19:40.21 | ``Erik | /. has some links for real mac ppc vs intel comparisons o.O |
| 19:45.25 | *** join/#brlcad pier_ (n=pier@151.56.201.94) | |
| 19:52.09 | *** join/#brlcad pier (n=pier@151.56.218.157) | |
| 19:59.05 | pra5ad_work | brlcad |
| 19:59.55 | pra5ad_work | i can only find g2asc |
| 20:00.03 | brlcad | explain |
| 20:00.11 | pra5ad_work | what was the g2bot convertor name |
| 20:00.22 | pra5ad_work | u mentioned earlier |
| 20:00.55 | brlcad | $ /usr/brlcad/bin/g- |
| 20:00.55 | brlcad | g-acad g-dxf g-euclid1 g-jack g-nmg g-off g-stl g-vrml |
| 20:00.58 | brlcad | g-adrt g-euclid g-iges g-nff g-obj g-shell.rect g-tankill g-x3d |
| 20:01.17 | pra5ad_work | ah |
| 20:01.30 | brlcad | g-nmg |
| 20:01.34 | brlcad | then nmg-bot iirc |
| 20:02.35 | brlcad | $ foo="`ls |grep -i bot | grep -v '\.'`" && echo $foo |
| 20:02.35 | brlcad | bot-bldxf bot-raw bot_shell-vtk nmg-bot poly-bot |
| 20:02.41 | pra5ad_work | r g-nmg -b ? |
| 20:02.44 | pra5ad_work | or* |
| 20:02.52 | brlcad | yep |
| 20:07.18 | CIA-13 | BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/mged/clone.c: reuse VUNITIZE_TOL from vmath instead of something new |
| 20:11.16 | *** join/#brlcad pier (n=pier@151.56.218.157) | |
| 20:12.18 | pra5ad_work | oook.. g-nmg core dumped on t62.g |
| 20:12.27 | Twingy | user error |
| 20:14.11 | brlcad | pra5ad_work: backtrace? |
| 20:16.49 | *** join/#brlcad pra5ad_work (n=803f2049@bz.bzflag.bz) | |
| 20:17.11 | pra5ad_work | http://pastebin.com/515083 |
| 20:17.57 | pra5ad_work | brlcad |
| 20:17.58 | pra5ad_work | brlcad |
| 20:17.58 | pra5ad_work | brlcad |
| 20:18.30 | brlcad | punk |
| 20:18.58 | ``Erik | want me to walk around the corner and smack him for you? |
| 20:19.30 | Twingy | if you wouldn't mind :) |
| 20:20.33 | ``Erik | mark's in there |
| 20:20.52 | pra5ad_work | yes he is |
| 20:21.21 | ``Erik | can't be bitchslappin' with a witness |
| 20:21.45 | pra5ad_work | key + m3 = protection |
| 20:21.49 | pra5ad_work | ^_^ |
| 20:28.13 | CIA-13 | BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/conv/g-nmg.c: prevent a sigsegv when the region can't be evaluated successfully |
| 20:29.21 | *** join/#brlcad Twingy (n=justin@pcp0011649600pcs.aberdn01.md.comcast.net) | |
| 20:30.58 | CIA-13 | BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/NEWS: prevent g-nmg segfault during tesselation |
| 20:47.22 | *** part/#brlcad pier (n=pier@151.56.218.157) | |
| 21:17.19 | CIA-13 | BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/mged/clone.c: check clone args a little more consistently |
| 21:41.29 | *** join/#brlcad DTRemenak (n=DTRemena@DHCP-170-143.caltech.edu) | |
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| 22:06.49 | *** join/#brlcad pra5ad (n=pra5ad@pool-141-157-110-14.balt.east.verizon.net) | |
| 22:07.03 | pra5ad | 36 hrs.. no sleep |
| 22:07.07 | pra5ad | la tortura |
| 22:09.14 | Maloeran | That can't be very productive |
| 22:09.30 | Twingy | I want vodka |
| 22:12.10 | Twingy | in 5 hours maybe |
| 22:12.24 | Twingy | I have 2 pieces of drywall to put up, spackling and some painting |
| 22:37.09 | ``Erik | hah |
| 22:38.01 | Twingy | oh, maybe 7 hours, I have to watch stargate too |
| 22:44.27 | CIA-13 | BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/rt/rtexample.c: main returns an int |
| 23:49.27 | *** join/#brlcad DTRemenak (n=DTRemena@DHCP-170-143.caltech.edu) | |
| 00:03.00 | CIA-13 | BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/include/bu.h: remove the unnecessary time_t type from the public header so that the dependency on time.h may be eliminated |
| 00:22.55 | CIA-13 | BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/libbu/mappedfile.c: cast the time_t to a long so we don't need to necessarily stash a time_t in the mappedfile structure any more |
| 00:27.15 | CIA-13 | BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/util/roots_example.c: add a simple example application that shows how to use the root solver for solving polynomial roots (up to 4th order shown) |
| 00:32.52 | CIA-13 | BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/util/roots_example.c: might as well add a linear root example too, fix type on rt_poly_roots() |
| 00:33.19 | CIA-13 | BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/util/Makefile.am: add roots_example.c as a sample application that uses the root solver |
| 00:35.46 | CIA-13 | BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/util/.cvsignore: ignore the roots_example binary |
| 00:37.35 | CIA-13 | BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/NEWS: new example root solving sample application |
| 00:38.45 | CIA-13 | BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/NEWS: oops, put roots_example into the right release block |
| 00:43.04 | CIA-13 | BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/NEWS: 7.8 will likely be released in february |
| 00:51.39 | CIA-13 | BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/misc/Makefile.am: don't include enigma's CVS directory in the distribution |
| 00:53.29 | CIA-13 | BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/misc/Makefile.am: scratch that, the test will be moved to the top-level makefile so NO cvs dirs get included |
| 00:58.40 | CIA-13 | BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/Makefile.am: delete any CVS directories from our candidate distribution since we don't want to ship them |
| 01:32.36 | CIA-13 | BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/NEWS: mention the name of the new root solving application, roots_example. |
| 01:42.12 | CIA-13 | BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/NEWS: (log message trimmed) |
| 01:42.12 | CIA-13 | BRL-CAD: Forgot to mention that considerable time was spent profiling and |
| 01:42.12 | CIA-13 | BRL-CAD: optimizing the raytracer. in particular, performance enhancements |
| 01:42.12 | CIA-13 | BRL-CAD: were made in support of reducing large image overhead and some |
| 01:42.12 | CIA-13 | BRL-CAD: unnecessary pixel processing. this is particularly important for |
| 01:42.13 | CIA-13 | BRL-CAD: background pixels, i.e. primary rays that miss the model. performance |
| 01:42.17 | CIA-13 | BRL-CAD: observed varies based on number of primary rays and the number that |
| 03:01.28 | justin_ | present and accounted for |
| 03:03.58 | phcoder | goodness - someone would think you have nothing else to do ;-) |
| 03:12.47 | *** join/#brlcad PrezKennedy (n=Apathy@pcp010175pcs.dover01.de.comcast.net) | |
| 03:56.44 | brlcad | there's something else to do? |
| 03:58.08 | phcoder | :-) |
| 03:58.32 | phcoder | yeah - don't ask *me* what , though... |
| 04:15.09 | justin_ | mmm, only 1 small piece of drywall left |
| 04:42.40 | kaol | does http://www.kb.cert.org/vuls/id/378049 concern the version of urt included with brlcad? |
| 04:52.53 | brlcad | kaol: no, it doesn't |
| 04:53.46 | brlcad | kaol: that was fixed in brl-cad with release 7.0.4, January of last year iirc |
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| 09:05.22 | *** join/#brlcad clock_ (n=clock@84-72-63-231.dclient.hispeed.ch) | |
| 11:08.41 | kaol | brlcad: ok, good to know. thanks. |
| 11:30.44 | *** join/#brlcad phcoder (n=phcoder@pcp0011650294pcs.aberdn01.md.comcast.net) | |
| 14:33.05 | pra5ad | mm 16 hrs of sleep |
| 15:39.18 | *** join/#brlcad ``Erik (i=erik@pcp0011474399pcs.chrchv01.md.comcast.net) | |
| 16:37.33 | pra5ad | brlcad, http://pastebin.com/516214 |
| 16:37.36 | pra5ad | 7.7.0 |
| 16:37.56 | pra5ad | ack |
| 16:38.06 | pra5ad | co'd wrong vers |
| 16:38.07 | pra5ad | :D |
| 16:40.20 | brlcad | looking |
| 16:42.19 | pra5ad | what module name should i co? |
| 16:42.28 | pra5ad | since head is buggy |
| 16:42.35 | pra5ad | er tag |
| 16:43.57 | pra5ad | or is 7.7.0 head supposed to work |
| 16:44.03 | brlcad | it's not buggy, did you even read the error? :) |
| 16:44.19 | pra5ad | course i didnt |
| 16:46.44 | brlcad | hm interesting that it's caring, but it's valid.. missing a header |
| 16:47.09 | brlcad | add a #include "pkg.h" into src/libfb/fb_generic.c before the #include "fb.h" |
| 16:47.41 | pra5ad | u gonna commit the change? |
| 16:49.12 | pra5ad | same thing in fb_log.c |
| 16:50.03 | brlcad | yeah, it needs to go into the header |
| 16:50.07 | brlcad | not the c files |
| 16:50.13 | pra5ad | in fb.h? |
| 16:50.14 | brlcad | add it to include/fb.h |
| 16:50.16 | pra5ad | k |
| 16:50.34 | brlcad | that's what I edited here, but still testing |
| 16:51.28 | pra5ad | compile went thru |
| 16:52.12 | CIA-13 | BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/include/fb.h: framebuffer interface is presently tied to the network package library due to a return type, should decouple that |
| 16:52.44 | brlcad | do you have an sf.net account? |
| 16:53.28 | brlcad | ah, never mind |
| 16:53.47 | brlcad | so yeah, you can just cvs up .. |
| 16:54.23 | pra5ad | yea |
| 16:54.53 | pra5ad | cvs commit -m"uh.. cos it didn't work.." |
| 16:54.56 | pra5ad | ;) |
| 16:55.17 | brlcad | actually it did, wierd |
| 16:55.25 | brlcad | what compiler? |
| 16:56.04 | pra5ad | gcc 4.0.2 |
| 16:57.06 | pra5ad | gcc version 4.0.2 20050808 (prerelease) (Ubuntu 4.0.1-4ubuntu9) |
| 16:57.48 | pra5ad | hmm |
| 16:57.50 | pra5ad | yacc -d points_parse.y |
| 16:57.50 | pra5ad | make[4]: yacc: Command not found |
| 16:57.50 | pra5ad | make[4]: *** [points_parse.c] Error 127 |
| 16:57.58 | pra5ad | configure didnt complain.. |
| 16:59.48 | brlcad | ahhh, ubuntie |
| 17:00.06 | brlcad | yeah, configure doesn't abort, it just defaults |
| 17:00.12 | brlcad | install bison |
| 17:00.25 | brlcad | and lex |
| 17:00.28 | brlcad | flex |
| 17:02.40 | CIA-13 | BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/libfb/pkgswitch.c: pkg.h isn't a local header |
| 17:03.19 | CIA-13 | BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/libfb/fbserv_obj.c: pkgtypes.h is in current dir, no need to couple to the directory name |
| 17:04.03 | pra5ad | http://pastebin.com/516246 |
| 17:04.45 | brlcad | pra5ad: what's YACC set to in your Makefile s |
| 17:05.12 | pra5ad | top level Makefile? |
| 17:05.17 | brlcad | any of them |
| 17:05.31 | pra5ad | YACC = yacc |
| 17:05.38 | brlcad | and LEX ? |
| 17:05.54 | pra5ad | LEX = ${SHELL} /home/prasad/brlcad/misc/missing --run flex |
| 17:06.20 | brlcad | grep YACC config.log |
| 17:06.56 | pra5ad | :. grep YACC config.log |
| 17:06.56 | pra5ad | YACC='yacc' |
| 17:07.17 | brlcad | ah, interesting |
| 17:07.40 | pra5ad | i installed bison and flex |
| 17:07.47 | brlcad | so I can add a test that shuts that part of mged off if a yacc isn't installed based on that I think |
| 17:08.38 | brlcad | do the same grep for LEX |
| 17:09.15 | pra5ad | :. grep LEX config.log |
| 17:09.15 | pra5ad | LEX='${SHELL} /home/prasad/brlcad/misc/missing --run flex' |
| 17:09.15 | pra5ad | LEXLIB='' |
| 17:09.15 | pra5ad | LEX_OUTPUT_ROOT='' |
| 17:10.08 | brlcad | that's what's causing the other error |
| 17:10.11 | brlcad | LEX_OUTPUT_ROOT |
| 17:10.17 | brlcad | you don't have a lexer |
| 17:10.29 | brlcad | install flex |
| 17:10.36 | brlcad | (and bison if you didn't yet) |
| 17:10.44 | pra5ad | i did (read up) |
| 17:10.52 | brlcad | rerun autogen.sh/configure |
| 17:10.53 | pra5ad | but i guess i should have reconfed |
| 17:11.06 | brlcad | or forgo autogen.sh |
| 17:11.12 | brlcad | but rm -rf *cache* |
| 17:18.56 | CIA-13 | BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/configure.ac: use AC_PROG_LEX instead of AM_PROG_LEX since the latter attempts to use the missing script to run flex but fails miserably due to the assumptions by automake that LEX_OUTPUT_ROOT will be set to something. |
| 17:22.06 | pra5ad | # |
| 17:22.06 | pra5ad | #ifdef __cplusplus |
| 17:22.06 | pra5ad | # |
| 17:22.06 | pra5ad | extern "C" { |
| 17:22.06 | pra5ad | # |
| 17:22.06 | pra5ad | #endif |
| 17:22.31 | pra5ad | is that acceptable for cross platform? |
| 17:23.32 | pra5ad | seems redundant to me.. *shrug* |
| 17:27.04 | brlcad | redundant? |
| 17:27.07 | brlcad | where do you see that? |
| 17:27.50 | brlcad | you shouldn't have to do the extern thing -- there's some header missing its label |
| 17:28.12 | brlcad | as we already do that for most of the headers if __cplusplus is defined |
| 17:28.23 | brlcad | albeit more cleanly than that |
| 17:28.35 | pra5ad | ah |
| 17:31.32 | brlcad | that's the "__BEGIN_DECLS" and "__END_DECLS" in the headers |
| 17:31.48 | brlcad | if you can make the fix to the headers so you don't have to do that in your code, commit the fix ;) |
| 17:32.20 | pra5ad | fix what |
| 17:32.41 | brlcad | i'd told you to add the extern "C" { #include "blah" } |
| 17:33.15 | brlcad | now that you're working with head.. what file does it abort on if you remove the extern "C" |
| 17:33.36 | brlcad | might as well fix the real problem |
| 17:35.24 | pra5ad | ohh the problem from yesterday |
| 17:35.38 | pra5ad | gimme sec |
| 17:36.58 | pra5ad | http://pastebin.com/516292 |
| 17:37.03 | pra5ad | (brlcad make) |
| 17:42.29 | brlcad | did you do a make clean there first |
| 17:42.32 | brlcad | looks dirty |
| 17:43.04 | brlcad | yyin and yylex are still flex/bison issues |
| 17:43.12 | pra5ad | k |
| 18:13.07 | pra5ad | same thing |
| 18:13.09 | pra5ad | i did make clean |
| 18:17.21 | ``Erik | try distclean? |
| 18:18.21 | ``Erik | I had problems with that, too... on fbsd o.O mged/points... |
| 18:18.31 | ``Erik | I wonder if my 'fix' broke it on whatever you're using :-/ |
| 18:18.57 | ``Erik | that points shit is a shoddyassed piece of shit anyways, we should figure out who wrote it and beat their ass O:-D |
| 18:20.32 | brlcad | it's the shizzle |
| 18:20.35 | brlcad | fo rizzle |
| 18:20.51 | brlcad | going to add more parsers too |
| 18:21.04 | brlcad | most of the converters should have been written as parsers |
| 18:21.46 | pra5ad | so whats the fix |
| 18:21.50 | pra5ad | try distclean? |
| 18:24.26 | ``Erik | are you building "in dir" or "out of dir"? |
| 18:25.25 | brlcad | hm |
| 18:25.31 | brlcad | send me your config.log |
| 18:25.48 | brlcad | and your src/mged/points/Makefile |
| 18:26.15 | ``Erik | given the errors, I would ASSUME that the C sean wrote makes assumptions about the output of lex, and your lex is not producing appropriate output... perhaps a different version, or a misassumed flag |
| 18:26.59 | ``Erik | (like, maybe you're using classic lex, or something other than flex...) |
| 18:26.59 | brlcad | i would think that too, cept he supposedly installed flex and bison |
| 18:27.06 | ``Erik | yeah, but |
| 18:27.18 | ``Erik | a) did it find flex, or some other lex |
| 18:27.20 | ``Erik | and b) did it add the right flags to lex |
| 18:27.28 | brlcad | true, why I wanted the config.log |
| 18:27.51 | brlcad | could be AC_PROG_LEX is busted for older autoconfs |
| 18:28.01 | ``Erik | additionally, more of the paste (like the lex call, libtool call, etc) may be useful |
| 18:28.08 | brlcad | pra5ad: what version of autoconf/automake/libtool are you using? |
| 18:28.24 | ``Erik | lex, too |
| 18:28.42 | brlcad | 12:35 * pra5ad is slow |
| 18:29.41 | brlcad | heh |
| 18:32.15 | pra5ad | yo back |
| 18:33.02 | pra5ad | 2.59, 1.9.5, 1.5.6 |
| 18:33.21 | pra5ad | flex: 2.5.31 |
| 18:33.37 | pra5ad | bison 2.0 |
| 18:33.43 | brlcad | hmm, the versions are good, so should figure out what's up |
| 18:33.45 | ``Erik | those're all awfully recent |
| 18:33.55 | brlcad | can you get me a shell account? |
| 18:34.06 | brlcad | that'd make this worlds easier |
| 18:34.49 | pra5ad | no can do |
| 18:34.58 | brlcad | ``Erik: yeah, i'm thinking that might be the problem if something was changed in a never version (or if it's a bonefide bug or a code assumption) |
| 18:35.07 | pra5ad | u want config.log and points/Makefile ? |
| 18:36.09 | ``Erik | cd src/mged/points ; make clean ; make 2>&1 > something ; /dcc send brlcad /path/too/src/mged/points/something |
| 18:36.11 | ``Erik | ? |
| 18:37.45 | pra5ad | blarg.. did distclean |
| 18:37.48 | pra5ad | gimme a few |
| 18:42.59 | brlcad | hmm BEP have a track that pra5ad should listen to |
| 18:44.04 | pra5ad | 'shut up' ? |
| 18:46.18 | brlcad | naope |
| 18:48.27 | pra5ad | 'say goodbye' ? |
| 18:48.37 | brlcad | nope |
| 18:48.52 | brlcad | heh, nothing like that |
| 18:48.56 | pra5ad | 'love wont wait' ? |
| 18:51.10 | pra5ad | 'latin girls' |
| 18:51.10 | pra5ad | mmm |
| 18:51.50 | brlcad | it's in filipino |
| 18:52.01 | brlcad | bebot |
| 18:53.15 | brlcad | this might play it http://sg1.allmusic.com/cg/smp.dll?r=20.asx&link=qten59muiakp2xuyu23dxhg |
| 18:53.22 | pra5ad | heard the itms preview |
| 18:53.26 | pra5ad | whatd i miss |
| 19:12.06 | *** join/#brlcad pra5ad_ (n=pra5ad@pool-141-157-99-61.balt.east.verizon.net) | |
| 19:12.16 | pra5ad_ | grr |
| 19:19.41 | brlcad | yay, real irc client |
| 19:20.31 | justin_ | heh |
| 19:25.28 | pra5ad_ | i was on this client b4.. |
| 19:30.38 | CIA-13 | BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/mged/cmd.c: disable the parse_points command conditionally depending on new configure checks for yacc/lex, output a message if it was disabled |
| 19:31.10 | pra5ad | well the distclean + make fixed it |
| 19:35.36 | CIA-13 | BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/mged/Makefile.am: conditionally traverse into and link against the points subdirectory based on whether WITH_PARSERS was declared by configure after testing for yacc/lex. |
| 19:41.32 | CIA-13 | BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/configure.ac: |
| 19:41.32 | CIA-13 | BRL-CAD: add tests to determine whether we successfully found a system bison/flex |
| 19:41.32 | CIA-13 | BRL-CAD: yacc/lex tool pair for making parsers. if either isn't found, the parsers that |
| 19:41.33 | CIA-13 | BRL-CAD: are written to utilize them are disabled to prevent compile errors and a warning |
| 19:41.33 | CIA-13 | BRL-CAD: is output. if they are availabe WITH_PARSERS is provided to the makefiles and |
| 19:41.35 | CIA-13 | BRL-CAD: BC_WITH_PARSERS is defined for code to conditionally test against. |
| 19:58.35 | brlcad | pra5ad: does your src/mged/points/points_parse.c have a previous_linebuffer declaration near the top (and a full/usual brl-cad header and #includes?)? |
| 20:00.19 | ``Erik | "b4"? is 'efore' really that much more difficult to type than the r-tard style '4'? o.O |
| 20:04.16 | pra5ad | brlcad, doesn't look like it |
| 20:04.50 | pra5ad | has the brlcad header + #includes |
| 20:05.12 | brlcad | what are the includes? |
| 20:05.52 | pra5ad | extern char previous_linebuffer[]; (found this after the brlcad header) |
| 20:06.13 | pra5ad | #include "common.h" |
| 20:06.13 | pra5ad | #include <stdio.h> |
| 20:06.13 | pra5ad | #include <stdlib.h> |
| 20:06.13 | pra5ad | #include <string.h> |
| 20:06.13 | pra5ad | #include "./count.h" |
| 20:06.14 | pra5ad | #include "./process.h" |
| 20:06.23 | brlcad | ah, so you DO have it :P |
| 20:06.55 | pra5ad | eye-balled the stuff above the header =) |
| 20:08.02 | brlcad | i think I see why it's complaining, but I can't fathom why they'd do that |
| 20:08.40 | brlcad | or if that's even really what's going on |
| 20:09.07 | brlcad | here's a better one, main.c -- you have an extern FILE *yyin; at the top yes? |
| 20:10.33 | pra5ad | yes |
| 20:13.59 | brlcad | then the errors make no sense |
| 20:14.41 | pra5ad | well it does now (and i am able to compile it successfully) |
| 20:14.46 | pra5ad | after the distclean |
| 20:17.51 | CIA-13 | BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/mged/cmd.c: er, if BC_WITH_PARSERS is NOT defined.. |
| 20:37.00 | pra5ad | brlcad, http://pastebin.com/516529 |
| 20:37.14 | pra5ad | (g-nmg -b -o bot.g t62.g component) |
| 20:42.01 | brlcad | ``Erik: updating freshmeat to .4 before updating to .6 just so you know |
| 20:42.33 | brlcad | pra5ad: thanks, looking |
| 20:48.10 | CIA-13 | BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/conv/g-nmg.c: ah, r may be null from td_r when traversing |
| 20:48.27 | brlcad | pra5ad: ah, same crash, protected wrong var |
| 20:48.30 | brlcad | try that |
| 21:10.00 | brlcad | pra5ad: how's that? |
| 21:10.19 | CIA-13 | BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/conv/ (11 files): a little less excitement about regions that evaluate to nothing, still report it if we're verbose a little more consistently. |
| 21:10.37 | pra5ad | worked |
| 21:11.00 | brlcad | did it convert correctly? |
| 21:11.01 | pra5ad | Tried 1009 regions, 1005 converted successfully. 99.6036% |
| 21:11.12 | brlcad | interesting.. |
| 21:11.49 | brlcad | try this, g-nmg without the -b, then nmg-bot instead |
| 21:12.23 | brlcad | how many succeed without the -b too |
| 21:13.17 | pra5ad | hmm in mged one of the left hubs is missing |
| 21:13.28 | pra5ad | checking now |
| 21:15.39 | pra5ad | got this: |
| 21:15.44 | pra5ad | <PROTECTED> |
| 21:15.44 | pra5ad | <PROTECTED> |
| 21:15.44 | pra5ad | class_lu_vs_s: loop transits plane of shell/face? |
| 21:15.44 | pra5ad | bu_bomb(): taking longjmp up to application handler |
| 21:15.45 | pra5ad | FAILED: /r728 |
| 21:18.19 | brlcad | try just that region by itself, does it succeed? |
| 21:18.49 | pra5ad | waiting for component to finish |
| 21:21.14 | pra5ad | Tried 1009 regions, 1006 converted successfully. 99.7027% |
| 21:22.15 | pra5ad | Starting program: /usr/brlcad/bin/g-nmg -o t62nmg.g t62.g r728 |
| 21:22.16 | pra5ad | [Thread debugging using libthread_db enabled] |
| 21:22.16 | pra5ad | [New Thread -1214351680 (LWP 27581)] |
| 21:22.16 | pra5ad | <PROTECTED> |
| 21:22.16 | pra5ad | class_lu_vs_s: loop transits plane of shell/face? |
| 21:22.17 | pra5ad | bu_bomb(): taking longjmp up to application handler |
| 21:22.18 | pra5ad | FAILED: /r728 |
| 21:22.19 | brlcad | that difference of 1 is the one that was causing the crash |
| 21:22.20 | pra5ad | Tried 1 regions, 0 converted successfully. 0% |
| 21:22.22 | pra5ad | Program exited normally. |
| 21:22.24 | pra5ad | (gdb) |
| 21:22.44 | brlcad | cool, so it's repeatable |
| 21:23.01 | pra5ad | eh? the output both times compoleted successfully |
| 21:23.07 | pra5ad | completed* |
| 21:23.27 | pra5ad | the conversion i mean; without any crashes |
| 21:25.49 | brlcad | well, not crashing doesn't mean it was "successful" |
| 21:25.58 | brlcad | it should never crash |
| 21:26.02 | brlcad | even if it can't convert |
| 21:26.20 | brlcad | that crash was specific to the -b option, so nobody noticed |
| 21:26.38 | brlcad | somehow it's a loopless non-empty shell |
| 21:26.50 | brlcad | which shouldn't exist easily |
| 21:28.03 | pra5ad | so the converted .g should be valid, albeit without the failed regions? |
| 21:29.27 | brlcad | right |
| 21:29.49 | brlcad | it that t62a perchance? |
| 21:30.49 | pra5ad | no |
| 21:30.57 | pra5ad | t62.g |
| 21:30.59 | pra5ad | used in m3 |
| 21:32.13 | clock_ | what is t62 and m3? tanks? |
| 21:33.52 | brlcad | t62 is a tank |
| 21:33.53 | brlcad | m3 is an analysis package |
| 21:33.53 | pra5ad | in a way; t62 IS a tank, while the other acts like one |
| 21:33.53 | brlcad | heh |
| 21:34.06 | pra5ad | running nmg on havoc |
| 22:05.31 | pra5ad | good god havoc is still going |
| 22:28.00 | *** join/#brlcad clock_ (n=clock@84-72-63-231.dclient.hispeed.ch) | |
| 23:31.40 | ``Erik | heh |
| 23:32.31 | ``Erik | I will not call muves-3 "m3", it would sully the awesomeness of my new machine. |
| 23:32.35 | ``Erik | :D |
| 23:34.01 | ``Erik | sean, there should probably be a brlcad release checklist... to make sure every little tidbit is done, no? (yeah, yeah, documented procedure... but the difference between this and the klugefuck of moronity at work is that we're documenting an existing procedure, not trying to dictate an imaginary procedure via documentation...) |
| 01:55.25 | brlcad | ``Erik: there already is one, has been one ever since it was open source |
| 01:55.31 | brlcad | it's in the TODO file |
| 01:55.42 | brlcad | includes checklists for the next two releases |
| 01:56.18 | brlcad | oh, if you mean a checklist for stuff to do to actually _make_ the release, there exists that too -- wrote that up when it went open source too |
| 01:56.36 | brlcad | look at the bottom of the HACKING file, you'll find itemized steps |
| 02:42.46 | ``Erik | ah |
| 02:42.59 | ``Erik | the itch I have is the freshmeat update |
| 02:43.21 | ``Erik | every freakin' release is major enough to get a freshmeat update, imho |
| 02:43.57 | ``Erik | also; in your directions, you forgot to mention buying erik a tasty beverage :D *duck* |
| 04:58.16 | phcoder | cookie monster |
| 05:25.40 | justin_ | mmm, I have half a ceiling and 2 recessed lights now |
| 08:36.34 | *** join/#brlcad clock_ (n=clock@84-72-63-231.dclient.hispeed.ch) | |
| 09:53.48 | CIA-13 | BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/ (include/pkg.h src/libpkg/pkg.c): there is no need/intent to modify the pkg_switch callback structure, so make it const |
| 10:19.53 | CIA-13 | BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/ (src/libfb/pkgtypes.h include/fbmsg.h): |
| 10:19.53 | CIA-13 | BRL-CAD: moved/renamed src/libfb/pkgtypes.h to include/fbmsg.h as it is used both by the |
| 10:19.54 | CIA-13 | BRL-CAD: library (if_remote) and by the application (fbserv) for communicating; whether |
| 10:19.54 | CIA-13 | BRL-CAD: it's considered a public header or a private header that fbserv happens to |
| 10:19.54 | CIA-13 | BRL-CAD: understand is still up for debate |
| 10:20.51 | CIA-13 | BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/libfb/ (fbserv_obj.c fbserv_obj_win32.c): change from HIDDEN to static, ws, use fbmsg.h |
| 10:23.09 | CIA-13 | BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/ (libfb/server.c fbserv/server.c): moved src/libfb/server.c to src/fbserv/server.c; the file contains the fbserv callbacks and the callback table used exclusively by fbserv. |
| 10:26.24 | CIA-13 | BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/include/Makefile.am: add fbmsg.h to the list of headers (but make it noinst) |
| 10:27.55 | CIA-13 | BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/include/fb.h: by moving the framebuffer server switch table out of libfb and into fbserv directly, it no longer needs to be in fb.h, removing the fb.h interface coupling to pkg.h |
| 10:36.51 | CIA-13 | BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/libfb/pkgswitch.c: remove used switch file, seems like a dumbed down example of the fbserv switch table with just close and error. not really useful. |
| 10:37.49 | CIA-13 | BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/libfb/if_remote.c: use fbmsg.h instead of pkgtypes.h (renamed and moved) |
| 10:39.08 | CIA-13 | BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/libfb/Makefile.am: server.c was moved to src/fbserv/.; pkgswitch.c was removed entirely; pkgtypes.h was renamed to fbmsg.h and moved to include/. |
| 10:40.43 | CIA-13 | BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/fbserv/ (fbserv.c fbserv_win.c): declare the fb_server_pkg_switch server callback switch table provided in server.c |
| 10:41.17 | CIA-13 | BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/fbserv/Makefile.am: include server.c, moved from src/libfb to there |
| 10:43.46 | brlcad | all that to fix one line in one interface header file |
| 10:46.43 | CIA-13 | BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/NEWS: ws |
| 11:00.23 | CIA-13 | BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/mged/fbserv.h: add header protection, include fbmsg.h |
| 11:01.06 | CIA-13 | BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/mged/fbserv.c: remove pkgtypes.h |
| 11:30.14 | *** join/#brlcad phcoder (n=phcoder@pcp0011650294pcs.aberdn01.md.comcast.net) | |
| 16:24.55 | pra5ad | hah |
| 16:25.04 | pra5ad | slashdot has banned my ip |
| 16:46.48 | *** join/#brlcad pra5ad_ (n=pra5ad@pool-151-196-29-122.balt.east.verizon.net) | |
| 17:36.49 | ``Erik | awesome |
| 18:37.39 | CIA-13 | BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/libbu/ (semaphore.c malloc.c): missing stdlib.h for malloc (only a few files that should be using malloc instead of bu_malloc) |
| 18:38.06 | brlcad | lemme guess, rss feed updating too frequently |
| 18:38.12 | CIA-13 | BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/libbu/vfont.c: use bu_malloc instead of malloc |
| 18:45.00 | CIA-13 | BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/libbn/bn_tcl.c: common file size uses longs now |
| 18:59.33 | pra5ad | no |
| 18:59.45 | pra5ad | dsl has an ip pool |
| 19:00.03 | pra5ad | one of them was banned i guess |
| 19:00.16 | pra5ad | reset the modem (new ip); all's peachy |
| 20:45.13 | *** join/#brlcad pier (n=pier@151.56.201.183) | |
| 21:15.42 | *** part/#brlcad pier (n=pier@151.56.201.183) | |
| 21:22.56 | CIA-13 | BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/libbu/cmd.c: ws |
| 21:23.48 | CIA-13 | BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/libbu/hash.c: include stdlib.h for malloc (cannot use bu_malloc() as the hash table may be used for MEM_DEBUG) |
| 23:28.50 | pra5ad | brlcad, how bout querying the # of bots under a top level obj |
| 23:29.02 | pra5ad | dirwalk? |
| 23:30.05 | justin_ | foshizzle |
| 23:33.22 | CIA-13 | BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/librt/wdb_obj.c: missing stdlib.h for atol |
| 23:38.11 | CIA-13 | BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/librt/ (28 files): missing stddef.h for offsetof, convert references to offsetof to bu_offsetof |
| 23:41.15 | CIA-13 | BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/include/cmd.h: add header protections, conditionally include sys/time.h correctly |
| 23:45.25 | CIA-13 | BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/include/bu.h: remove the need for HAVE_STDLIB_H and need for stdlib.h and stddef.h. instead, let files that use the offsetof macros include stdlib.h. don't need decls for malloc,calloc,realloc any more. provide bu_offsetof() macro |
| 00:03.40 | CIA-13 | BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/libfb/tcl.c: use bu_malloc and bu_free instead of malloc |
| 00:05.10 | CIA-13 | BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/libfb/fbserv_obj.c: use bu_malloc and bu_free instead of malloc |
| 00:08.09 | CIA-13 | BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/libfb/fb_obj.c: use bu_calloc and bu_free instead of calloc |
| 00:22.28 | *** join/#brlcad DTRemenak (n=DTRemena@DHCP-170-143.caltech.edu) | |
| 00:35.32 | brlcad | pra5ad: yeah, you'll want to make a dirtree |
| 00:35.40 | CIA-13 | BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/liboptical/ (27 files): include stddef.h for bu_offset's usage of offset |
| 00:36.52 | brlcad | there are several different ways to walk a geometry graph |
| 00:37.29 | brlcad | db_functree() is probably the most simple, with a callback for leaf nodes (primitives) and for non-leaf nodes (combinations) |
| 00:37.58 | brlcad | src/gtools/g_transfer.c has a simple example using that |
| 00:39.23 | brlcad | db_walk_tree() is a little more powerful, with a region start and end callback in addition to the leaf callback |
| 00:39.38 | brlcad | most of the converters in src/conv use that routine |
| 00:42.23 | brlcad | if you only want to walk over the leaf nodes, db_tree_funcleaf() exists |
| 00:43.51 | brlcad | the iges converter and mged have examples that use that one |
| 01:02.07 | *** join/#brlcad DTRemenak (n=DTRemena@DHCP-170-143.caltech.edu) | |
| 01:07.19 | pra5ad | how do u determine if a primitive is a bot |
| 01:24.35 | CIA-13 | BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/conv/comgeom/solid.c: convert to libbu memory management, removing the need for the memory allocation failure checking/handling |
| 01:44.27 | brlcad | if you have an internal pointer you can check if ip->idb_type == ID_BOT |
| 01:44.36 | brlcad | if you have a raw internal pointer, you can check ip->idb_minor_type != ID_BOT |
| 02:00.29 | brlcad | here, an easier way: |
| 02:00.45 | brlcad | FOR_ALL_DIRECTORY_START(dp, rtip->rti_dbip) { |
| 02:00.48 | brlcad | <PROTECTED> |
| 02:00.59 | brlcad | <PROTECTED> |
| 02:01.12 | brlcad | <PROTECTED> |
| 02:01.14 | brlcad | <PROTECTED> |
| 02:01.15 | brlcad | } |
| 02:08.29 | brlcad | FOR_ALL_DIRECTORY_END |
| 02:52.09 | *** join/#brlcad DTRemenak (n=DTRemena@DHCP-170-143.caltech.edu) | |
| 02:57.30 | CIA-13 | BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/conv/jack/jack-g.c: convert to libbu memory management |
| 03:04.35 | ``Erik | have you fixed the tesselator so if it tries to tesselate a bot, it just hands the geometry back? |
| 03:14.52 | CIA-13 | BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/conv/ (g-vrml.c g-x3d.c): include stddef.h for bu_offset's usage of offset |
| 03:15.22 | CIA-13 | BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/conv/ (asc-nmg.c asc2g.c dxf-g.c euclid-g.c g-adrt.c): convert to libbu memory management |
| 03:28.39 | CIA-13 | BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/conv/g-adrt.c: how in the world did struct "vu_vls" compile? |
| 03:45.26 | *** join/#brlcad DTRemenak (n=DTRemena@DHCP-170-143.caltech.edu) | |
| 03:58.35 | brlcad | nope |
| 04:06.30 | CIA-13 | BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/rt/ (rtshot.c sh_tcl.c viewweight.c worker.c): convert to libbu memory management |
| 04:07.24 | CIA-13 | BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/librtserver/rtserver.c: convert to libbu memory management |
| 04:29.17 | CIA-13 | BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/libdm/clip.c: don't use INFINITY as it's a publicly defined macro usually, regardless, it's used as a clipping plane distance so call it that. increase it one order to a billion while we're at it. |
| 04:37.04 | CIA-13 | BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/libdm/ (dm-X.c dm-glx.c dm-ogl.c dm-ogl_win.c dm-pex.c): need stdlib.h for getenv() |
| 04:45.31 | CIA-13 | BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/libdm/dm_obj.c: convert to bu_malloc for all but one section so that it may fail gracefully |
| 04:45.51 | CIA-13 | BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/libmultispectral/sh_temp.c: include stddef.h for bu_offsetof |
| 05:02.34 | CIA-13 | BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/fb/pl-fb.c: stdlib.h for malloc and friends, not using libbu management as there is failure recovery code |
| 05:04.14 | CIA-13 | BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/fb/cat-fb.c: convert to libbu memory management |
| 05:11.30 | CIA-13 | BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/halftone/ (main.c tone_floyd.c): convert to libbu memory management |
| 05:40.19 | *** join/#brlcad PrezKennedy (n=Apathy@pcp010175pcs.dover01.de.comcast.net) | |
| 06:05.08 | CIA-13 | BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/libdm/clip.c: update to use GED_MIN and GED_MAX |
| 06:20.59 | CIA-13 | BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/mged/cad_boundp.c: stdlib.h |
| 06:32.42 | CIA-13 | BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/mged/ (Makefile.am clip.c): clip.c removed, being used from libdm like it should be |
| 06:33.09 | CIA-13 | BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/mged/ (dm-X.c dm-ogl.c setup.c tedit.c): stdlib.h for alloc/getenv funcs |
| 07:06.22 | CIA-13 | BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/proc-db/ (molecule.c pipe.c rawbot.c torii.c vegitation.c): use libbu memory allocation management, get rid of null checks |
| 07:07.01 | CIA-13 | BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/nirt/parse_fmt.c: s/rt_malloc/bu_malloc |
| 07:07.13 | CIA-13 | BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/nirt/if.c: ws |
| 07:07.46 | CIA-13 | BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/nirt/command.c: stdlib.h |
| 07:08.54 | CIA-13 | BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/anim/ (anim_fly.c anim_track.c): libbu for memory management |
| 07:09.39 | CIA-13 | BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/lgt/trie.c: stdlib.h |
| 07:10.30 | CIA-13 | BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/lgt/ (texture.c reflect.c mat_db.c lgt_db.c): libbu for memory management |
| 07:11.34 | CIA-13 | BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/lgt/ (ir.c octree.c execshell.c): stdlib.h |
| 07:11.44 | CIA-13 | BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/lgt/hmenu.c: use bu_malloc |
| 07:13.51 | CIA-13 | BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/irprep/showtherm.c: use M_PI instead of PI, VUNITIZE_TOL instead of TOL, and libbu memory management |
| 07:15.20 | CIA-13 | BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/irprep/ (secpass.c firpass.c): libbu memory allocation management |
| 07:16.25 | CIA-13 | BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/irprep/all_sf.c: use M_PI instead of PI, VDIVIDE_TOL instead of ZTOL, and libbu memory management |
| 07:18.09 | CIA-13 | BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/librtserver/rtserver.c: quell some warnings |
| 07:21.25 | CIA-13 | BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/anim/anim_track.c: s/nmu/num/ transpose |
| 07:24.09 | CIA-13 | BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/fb/pl-fb.c: STATIC to static |
| 07:26.44 | CIA-13 | BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/irprep/firpass.c: missing arg to bu_free |
| 07:29.35 | CIA-13 | BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/nirt/parse_fmt.c: stdlib.h for getenv |
| 07:31.57 | CIA-13 | BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/remrt/protocol.h: header protection, use bu_offsetof |
| 07:32.21 | CIA-13 | BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/remrt/remrt.c: add stddef.h for bu_offsetof |
| 07:35.37 | CIA-13 | BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/rttherm/ssampview.c: stdlib.h for atoi() |
| 07:36.04 | *** join/#brlcad clock_ (n=clock@84-72-63-231.dclient.hispeed.ch) | |
| 07:38.09 | CIA-13 | BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/util/pix-ppm.c: libbu for allocations |
| 07:39.10 | CIA-13 | BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/util/pix-yuv.c: libbu for allocations |
| 07:42.22 | CIA-13 | BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/util/pixbgstrip.c: libbu for allocations |
| 07:43.27 | CIA-13 | BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/util/pixborder.c: libbu for allocations |
| 07:44.36 | CIA-13 | BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/util/pixcut.c: libbu for allocations |
| 07:46.15 | CIA-13 | BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/util/pixpaste.c: libbu for allocations |
| 07:48.31 | CIA-13 | BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/util/ (terrain.c texturescale.c yuv-pix.c): libbu for allocations |
| 07:52.11 | CIA-13 | BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/util/pix-ppm.c: missing end quote |
| 07:54.35 | CIA-13 | BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/rttherm/ssampview.c: use atol instaed of atoi |
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| 15:17.21 | pra5ad_work | brlcad |
| 15:21.26 | *** join/#brlcad kaol (n=kari@sammakko.yok.utu.fi) | |
| 16:32.52 | pra5ad_work | if gcc -DHAVE_CONFIG_H -I. -I. -I../../include -I/usr/X11R6/include -I/usr/local/include -I../../include -DBEHIND_ME_TOL=0.05 -pipe -fno-strict-aliasing -fno-common -g -O3 -MT lgt-texture.o -MD -MP -MF ".deps/lgt-texture.Tpo" -c -o lgt-texture.o `test -f 'texture.c' || echo './'`texture.c; \then mv -f ".deps/lgt-texture.Tpo" ".deps/lgt-texture.Po"; else rm -f ".deps/lgt-texture.Tpo"; exit 1; fitexture.c: In function `init_Icon_Texture':texture.c:133: |
| 17:44.59 | CIA-13 | BRL-CAD: 03bob1961 * 10brlcad/misc/win32-msvc7/librt/librt.vcproj: Added the following new files: db_flags.c and db_inmem.c |
| 17:47.10 | CIA-13 | BRL-CAD: 03bob1961 * 10brlcad/misc/win32-msvc7/fbserv/fbserv.vcproj: Added server.c |
| 17:50.47 | CIA-13 | BRL-CAD: 03bob1961 * 10brlcad/misc/win32-msvc7/libfb/libfb.vcproj: Removed server.c |
| 17:54.56 | CIA-13 | BRL-CAD: 03bob1961 * 10brlcad/src/fbserv/fbserv_win.c: Include fbmsg.h instead of libfb/pkgtypes.h. Provide declarations for routines that live in server.c |
| 17:57.19 | CIA-13 | BRL-CAD: 03bob1961 * 10brlcad/src/fbserv/fbserv.c: Provide declarations for variables that live in server.c |
| 18:02.46 | CIA-13 | BRL-CAD: 03bob1961 * 10brlcad/include/fb.h: Removed declaration of variables from server.c |
| 18:04.02 | CIA-13 | BRL-CAD: 03bob1961 * 10brlcad/src/librt/db_inmem.c: Declare db5_export_attributes(). |
| 20:11.53 | CIA-13 | BRL-CAD: 03lbutler * 10brlcad/src/lgt/texture.c: call to malloc() had the signature of a call to bu_malloc(). Fixed to call bu_malloc(). |
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| 23:38.38 | CIA-13 | BRL-CAD: 03lbutler * 10brlcad/src/mged/typein.c: include stdlib.h so that atof is known to return a double |
| 01:55.27 | *** join/#brlcad ibot (i=ibot@rikers.org) | |
| 01:55.27 | *** topic/#brlcad is http://brlcad.org/ || BRL-CAD is now Free Software! || BRL-CAD Windows port has been merged to HEAD, not yet stable yet || Archer is now on HEAD as well, kick the tires, report any bugs || there WILL be a 7.6.8 released ASAP for January after all | |
| 02:07.22 | *** mode/#brlcad [+o brlcad] by ChanServ | |
| 03:54.19 | justin_ | mmm drywall |
| 03:56.29 | *** join/#brlcad DTRemenak (n=DTRemena@DHCP-170-143.caltech.edu) | |
| 04:09.12 | CIA-13 | BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/include/raytrace.h: missing the declaration for db5_export_attributes() |
| 04:11.42 | CIA-13 | BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/librt/db_inmem.c: don't need the db5_export_attributes extern decl as it's now in raytrace.h like it should have been |
| 04:25.05 | CIA-13 | BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/gtools/g_transfer.c: use the FOR_ALL_DIRECTORY_START/FOR_ALL_DIRECTORY_END macros for iterating over the array of linked list of directory nodes. |
| 04:31.17 | CIA-13 | BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/gtools/g_diff.c: convert iteration over the array of linked lists to FOR_ALL_DIRECTORY_START/FOR_ALL_DIRECTORY_END instead |
| 04:44.50 | *** join/#brlcad DTRemenak (n=DTRemena@DHCP-170-143.caltech.edu) | |
| 04:45.36 | CIA-13 | BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/include/raytrace.h: the external isn't const, but the avs is (db5_export_attributes) |
| 05:00.58 | CIA-13 | BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/ (8 files in 4 dirs): convert iteration over the array of linked list of directory nodes to FOR_ALL_DIRECTORY_START/FOR_ALL_DIRECTORY_END instead |
| 07:31.33 | *** join/#brlcad clock_ (n=clock@84-72-60-74.dclient.hispeed.ch) | |
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| 15:44.53 | CIA-13 | BRL-CAD: 03bob1961 * 10brlcad/src/librt/db_io.c: Remove USE_SURVICE_MODS ifdef/endif that was guarding a fflush in db_write(). |
| 15:46.06 | clock_ | brlcad: hi |
| 17:19.44 | CIA-13 | BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/tclscripts/ampi.tcl: add the verbose flag so that warnings/errors are apparent |
| 17:22.03 | *** join/#brlcad DTRemenak (n=DTRemena@DHCP-170-143.caltech.edu) | |
| 17:22.33 | clock_ | DTRemenak: hi |
| 17:22.40 | clock_ | DTRemenak: in which city is caltech? |
| 17:25.25 | brlcad | clock_: howdy |
| 17:25.44 | clock_ | brlcad: hi |
| 17:26.12 | brlcad | how goes things far far away? |
| 17:27.08 | clock_ | forward |
| 17:27.09 | clock_ | :D |
| 17:27.50 | clock_ | where is caltech actually? |
| 17:28.49 | brlcad | california |
| 17:29.01 | clock_ | what a surprise! :) |
| 17:29.14 | clock_ | But which city? |
| 17:29.24 | brlcad | heh |
| 17:29.39 | brlcad | pasadena |
| 17:31.46 | brlcad | los angeles |
| 17:31.55 | brlcad | san diego, san jose, san fran. |
| 17:32.14 | brlcad | long beach, sacramento, long beach, oakland, anaheim ;) |
| 17:33.17 | brlcad | fresno, santa ana.. hmm |
| 17:34.07 | brlcad | that's about 10 million people probably, closer to 20 if you include the suburbs |
| 17:34.35 | clock_ | santa monica and venice |
| 17:36.02 | brlcad | famous places, but don't hold a stick up to the other cities population-wise |
| 17:36.31 | clock_ | why are they famous? |
| 17:37.17 | brlcad | not even 100k people if I had to guess in santa monica |
| 17:37.17 | clock_ | I come from Prague and Prague has 1.2M |
| 17:37.17 | clock_ | so everything under 1.2M is a village for me :) |
| 17:37.20 | brlcad | ritzy tourist attraction places often found in movies, quirky culture blendings ;) |
| 17:37.34 | clock_ | that's exact description |
| 17:37.55 | clock_ | what does ritzy mean? |
| 17:38.04 | brlcad | expensive |
| 17:38.12 | brlcad | fancy |
| 17:38.48 | clock_ | A spirit of medieval evil |
| 17:40.13 | brlcad | woot, http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/California |
| 17:40.26 | brlcad | table half-way |
| 17:42.36 | clock_ | Prague is to cities what Jet Set Willy or Go To Hell is to computer games |
| 17:42.47 | clock_ | bizarre. |
| 17:47.55 | clock_ | some of the CA views are impressive |
| 17:51.17 | clock_ | I like the stack crossing |
| 17:51.27 | clock_ | Caltrans :) |
| 18:13.45 | clock_ | brlcad: hehe, BRL-CAD logo is just Dogtown Skateboards logo with the cross replaced with eagle's body ;-) |
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| 20:13.46 | *** join/#brlcad raz (n=rarunaog@pool-138-88-148-253.esr.east.verizon.net) | |
| 20:16.20 | raz | brlcad: I downloaded the windows version of brlcad and the brlcad.dsw will not load the *.dsp files. It states the makefiles were not generated by developer studio. |
| 20:37.58 | raz | brlcad: solution seems to be re-save the *.dsp files when opened in a text editor. |
| 21:08.39 | *** join/#brlcad DTRemenak (n=DTRemena@DHCP-170-143.caltech.edu) | |
| 21:09.08 | brlcad | heh |
| 21:16.35 | *** join/#brlcad DTRemenak (n=DTRemena@DHCP-170-143.caltech.edu) | |
| 23:21.55 | *** join/#brlcad ctj2 (n=ctj@192.55.203.132) | |
| 23:22.18 | ctj2 | Hello, is Sean here and awake? |
| 23:39.16 | brlcad | hey, long time.. |
| 23:39.27 | brlcad | haven't seen any commits from you yet ;) |
| 23:39.53 | ctj2 | That's because I'm writing to much code for Max. I still use the cad software whenever I can. |
| 23:40.19 | ctj2 | I'm actually a GPU programmer now. Shhhh, don't let any of the CSG people hear that. |
| 23:40.20 | brlcad | how've you been? other than slave coding for Max |
| 23:40.28 | brlcad | heh |
| 23:40.49 | ctj2 | Pretty good. My GF had twins november 1st. Michael and Mikayla. (Mike 1 and Mike 2) |
| 23:40.50 | brlcad | actually.. we got a few graphics cards here to test out some ideas on them using gpgpu techniques |
| 23:41.03 | brlcad | hah, excellent! |
| 23:41.07 | brlcad | congratulations |
| 23:41.11 | ctj2 | Thank you. |
| 23:41.45 | ctj2 | I came looking for the answer to a very off topic question. What the heck do we call the programs that are internal to the cpu? Machine code? Microcode? |
| 23:42.31 | brlcad | either/both work depending on the context |
| 23:42.54 | ctj2 | I need to differniciated it from the opcodes that are generated by the assembler. |
| 23:43.08 | ctj2 | I hate lossing vocab. |
| 23:43.08 | brlcad | microcode directly controls the processor |
| 23:43.18 | ctj2 | Thanks, that's the word I was looking for. |
| 23:43.19 | brlcad | usually machine code equates to several microcode instructions |
| 23:44.09 | ctj2 | exactly. One of the big problems I'm dealing with right now is educating people. Some of them have no programming experence. Some have no computer science. Worse still, some of our programmers are good programmers with no CS behind it. |
| 23:44.14 | brlcad | microcode being hardwired on most non-mainframe computers |
| 23:45.25 | brlcad | yeah, odd that you have to explain that to someone though ;) |
| 23:45.52 | brlcad | unless you're trying to explain graphics processor programming |
| 23:46.10 | ctj2 | The problem is how do you explain the difference between OOP from structured design from structured programming and what the power of each is. |
| 23:46.19 | brlcad | unless you're actually writing micro/machine code for gpus :) |
| 23:46.30 | brlcad | very carefully |
| 23:46.32 | brlcad | :) |
| 23:46.36 | ctj2 | *grins* |
| 23:47.05 | ctj2 | Yes, very carefully. I have to deal with people that get cought up in the term of the day, without understanding why and what it means. |
| 23:47.50 | ctj2 | My latest battle was somebody that required me to use a factory to get an instance that was then so specific that there was no way for that factory to deliver anything other than that one instance. |
| 23:48.46 | ctj2 | Or people that seem to feel that every class they write is so spectacular and individualized that it belongs in its own library. |
| 23:48.48 | ctj2 | *grump* |
| 23:51.30 | ctj2 | So what have you been up to? |
| 23:55.08 | ``Erik | classes suck |
| 23:55.35 | ctj2 | Now that leads me to ask the question: OOP classes or collage classes? |
| 23:55.52 | ``Erik | ood/oop |
| 23:56.01 | ``Erik | at least, the laughable mockery c++ and java make of classes |
| 23:56.09 | ``Erik | objc seems interesting, smalltalk is nice |
| 23:56.56 | ctj2 | Classes/objects in of themselves do not suck. The concept is very powerful. It is a tool that even dinos like myself have to embrace at some point. |
| 23:58.11 | ``Erik | I was converted into being a big oo fan in '94 or '95, after over 10 years of other shtuff, then got some serious C fu going and realized that c++ buys you nothing but some syntatic sugar that is inappropriate at least 95% of the time |
| 23:58.46 | ``Erik | I was lukewarm on ruby 6 yrs ago, but smalltalk has me much more appreciative as of a couple yrs ago |
| 23:58.46 | ``Erik | :) |
| 23:58.59 | ``Erik | but I still contend that c++ and java are just plain bad. |
| 23:59.54 | ctj2 | As an example: |
| 00:00.28 | ``Erik | hmmm, smalltalk predates c++ by a good chunk |
| 00:00.30 | ctj2 | When we were first programming, "structure programming" was introduced. IF-THEN-ELSEIF-ELSE-ENDIF type structures. |
| 00:00.41 | ``Erik | and the 'actor' model scheme was designed around was a form of oop in retrospect |
| 00:01.11 | ``Erik | we've had mechanisms to talk about it, but the 'common' line programmer was unable to get there :( |
| 00:01.40 | ctj2 | Even though the concept of SP was there, it took a number of years till we could talk about it. The concept that was required was "blocks". Then came structured designe with "functional units" and now we have objects. |
| 00:02.00 | ctj2 | but until we have good UML, Usecases that match we had no real way of speaking OOP. |
| 00:03.00 | ``Erik | don't mind me, I'm a fan of esoteric languages and a major scheme weenie :) |
| 00:03.34 | ``Erik | hm, plenty of usability was available in far cleaner languages very early on... but paradigm shifts are hard, so most people avoid them like the plague |
| 00:04.11 | ctj2 | I program in scheme, lisp, fortran, C, C++, php, perl and likely a dozen other languages. We can't have a paradigm shift until we have a human language or vocabulary to discuss the concepts. |
| 00:04.37 | ``Erik | was it kay that made the comment about people who first learned basic being permanently damaged beyond repair? :) |
| 00:05.09 | ``Erik | (I'm also quite angsty because I'm stuck working on a very poorly architected java program at work...) |
| 00:05.10 | ctj2 | Hmmm, I guess that means Mike was damage beyond repair. I'll follow his programming lead for now. |
| 00:05.41 | ``Erik | heh, basic was my first language, on the coleco adam when it was shiney and new... but I'm a happy retard |
| 00:06.21 | ``Erik | my point was that paradigm shifts are hard, they serve well to weed out the chaff, which is a majority of people, imho |
| 00:07.09 | ctj2 | ``Erik, when you say you are working on a "poorly architected java program" I submit that any program in any language can be poorly architected. Where we get many many bad architected systems is when there is a technical change that requires a new methodology which people can't speak about for lack of human language. |
| 00:07.10 | ``Erik | people who have made the jump to really grok and become proficient with functional and logical languages can walk back to imperative and oo oh so much stronger, but I've seen very few who do |
| 00:08.13 | ctj2 | I'd agree with that. |
| 00:08.18 | ``Erik | perhaps, but I view c++'s variant of oo as a major step back... hey, man, bust out the smalltalk, ruby, ocaml, etc, and I'm right there :) |
| 00:08.38 | ``Erik | (I'm not hatin' on OO in general, just the most common mutilation...) |
| 00:08.51 | ``Erik | sorry if I gave the wrong impression |
| 00:09.15 | ctj2 | Stop worrying about the language and worry about the concepts. People have been doing objected oriented programming long before smalltalk and C++ and java showed up on the scene. |
| 00:09.49 | ctj2 | If you can't take your good OO concepts and impliment them in the languge of the day, then is that a failure of the language or the programmer? |
| 00:10.15 | ``Erik | heh, some languages make it very very very difficult, but it's the fault of the programmer, of course :) |
| 00:10.41 | ``Erik | I do a good chunk of oo-ey stuff in my C, so... yeah, we had a minor language mismatch, and I think it was my fault o.O |
| 00:11.10 | ctj2 | One of the first good examples of OO that I observed was librt/table.c |
| 00:12.17 | ``Erik | sean, are you still at the office? |
| 00:13.11 | ctj2 | If you look at the history of teaching computer science, you can see the instructors using cobol/fortran to teach a *language* to the students. Then N.W. brought out Pascal and the instructors were capable of teaching SP with a strong stack oriented language. The schools then produced many programmers that could only do SP. |
| 00:13.39 | ``Erik | indeed |
| 00:14.00 | ctj2 | When they were handed a different language, Fortran IV, ASM, COMPASS they were lost. The language did not have the structures they needed. And the students didn't know how to build those structures. |
| 00:14.04 | ``Erik | and now colleges turn out java factory line toilers :( |
| 00:14.55 | ctj2 | One of my luck outs was that I was taught how to create a structured programming language (compiler course). And when you walk out of that, you realize that structure programming is mearly the correct locations of gotos. *GRIN* |
| 00:15.18 | ctj2 | The big problem with pascal programmers is that pascal was a teaching language, not a production language. |
| 00:16.00 | ctj2 | We cheated, we just did the Linked lists in COMPASS (CDC Cyber750 Assembly) |
| 00:16.25 | ``Erik | cool |
| 00:16.27 | ctj2 | Java is a great teaching language. The problem is when you teach a *language* vs the science and art of programming. |
| 00:17.14 | ``Erik | ayup... I dislike the excessive verbosity of java, tho |
| 00:17.29 | ``Erik | and I seem to spend too much time trying to look up api calls instead of thinking about the problem I want to solve |
| 00:17.32 | ctj2 | Which brings me back to my original point, the *language* that needs to be taught before Java is UML or equivlent. Then you can teach the concepts and impliment those concepts in Java (or any other language) |
| 00:17.51 | ``Erik | heh, just hit newbie students with SICP |
| 00:17.57 | ctj2 | The only way that I get good productivity in java is with an IDE. |
| 00:18.01 | ctj2 | Expand SICP. |
| 00:18.13 | ``Erik | structure and interpretation of computer programs |
| 00:18.23 | ctj2 | *grins* Ah, a course name. |
| 00:18.28 | ``Erik | ummm, http://mitpress.mit.edu/sicp/ |
| 00:18.30 | ``Erik | a book, too |
| 00:18.39 | ctj2 | Ok. let me bookmark. |
| 00:19.13 | ctj2 | Done. |
| 00:19.34 | ``Erik | when I code (java), I end up having 'idea' open on one display to look around and let it show me methods, and vim on the other one to actually express |
| 00:19.59 | ctj2 | *grins* I've been using Netbeans for my java toys |
| 00:20.09 | *** join/#brlcad PrezKennedy (n=Apathy@pcp010175pcs.dover01.de.comcast.net) | |
| 00:20.52 | ``Erik | I have hope that sisc will help me be productive in java... |
| 00:20.59 | ctj2 | It upsets my fingers though. I type ctrl-a, ctrl-o, tab and the program I was writing is GONE. |
| 00:21.04 | ``Erik | http://sisc.sourceforge.net/ |
| 00:22.32 | ctj2 | Is PrezKennedy chuck? |
| 00:22.52 | ``Erik | his boy, iirc |
| 00:23.22 | brlcad | oop, sorry -- Yes i am |
| 00:23.39 | ctj2 | Ah, thanks |
| 00:23.46 | ``Erik | didja see justins new truck? o.O |
| 00:23.55 | ``Erik | I think I started a trend :D |
| 00:24.12 | ``Erik | (or did you, with that chevy...) |
| 00:24.58 | PrezKennedy | dad would probably join irc as kermit if he figured it out ;-) |
| 00:25.41 | ctj2 | More likely, Chuck is busy playing video games and has no time for IRC dorks. *GRIN* |
| 00:26.39 | Twingy | where's the link to the 7 levels of IRC.... |
| 00:26.42 | brlcad | yep I did |
| 00:27.16 | brlcad | hehe, kermit is still playing games |
| 00:27.33 | ``Erik | twingy: google? :D |
| 00:27.38 | Twingy | can't find it |
| 00:27.40 | brlcad | though I almost passed out when I heard he wasn't just playing tribes any more |
| 00:27.53 | ctj2 | What's his current addiction? |
| 00:27.53 | ``Erik | WHAT??? |
| 00:27.55 | Twingy | I think foodave posted it in '00 |
| 00:28.04 | PrezKennedy | hes been playing command and conquer games since we got a computer |
| 00:28.27 | ``Erik | that's it, I'm crapping in your mac tomorrow |
| 00:28.28 | brlcad | if you can't handle the firepower, don't handle the gun ;) |
| 00:28.31 | PrezKennedy | he also plays total annihilation and... well thats bout all that works on his computer |
| 00:28.35 | ctj2 | Hey there. Don't pick on the boy, he just picked up some bad habits. |
| 00:28.58 | Twingy | sean will have to get a quad mac if you do that |
| 00:29.01 | ``Erik | ask mike t, I'm always ripping on c++ |
| 00:29.44 | brlcad | heh, punt the G5 because of your video card? get a new video card ;) |
| 00:30.05 | ctj2 | No, not because of the video card. Mac OS X does not support NV_OPTION_3 |
| 00:30.12 | ctj2 | The video card does. |
| 00:30.15 | Twingy | leave ##opengl |
| 00:30.41 | brlcad | ahh, driver |
| 00:30.45 | ``Erik | check it out, dudes, the 'project' takes about 3 seconds total for both the raytracing and the algorithms... for the 100x100x10 of that thing, right... but the total run time is... between 1 and 2 hours, depending on luck :) |
| 00:30.47 | ctj2 | Yes drivers. |
| 00:31.28 | ``Erik | when I bitched, nvidia put out new fbsd drivers to support the card I have... mebbe if you bitch about the option, they'll update the mac driver? |
| 00:31.46 | ctj2 | To paraphrase NVIDIA: It is Apples problem. |
| 00:32.07 | ``Erik | most of my cohorts at apple fled :( |
| 00:32.08 | brlcad | any experience with Cg or the GPGPU project? |
| 00:33.52 | brlcad | what about "Sh" ? |
| 00:33.53 | ``Erik | oh, btw, I think nvidia has a pack of knuckleheads working over there, they don't understand ioctls so good :( |
| 00:34.01 | ctj2 | Cg and the other one compile to a profile which the drivers then interpret. I can write my code in Cg if I wanted to but then the drivers eat it. Same with Sh." |
| 00:35.09 | brlcad | not as nearly interested in Cg as the other two, mainly due to portability -- sort of waiting to see which one falls into better favor |
| 00:36.46 | PrezKennedy | http://flickr.com/photos/92579619@N00/86410009/in/pool-tuawrigs/ |
| 00:36.51 | PrezKennedy | i saw that and thought of you brlcad |
| 00:38.05 | brlcad | heh |
| 00:38.11 | brlcad | i wish i had a canon xl |
| 00:38.24 | ``Erik | heh |
| 00:38.28 | PrezKennedy | it makes your setup look cheap and mine look like its from the late 1970's |
| 00:38.39 | ``Erik | that dell isn't nearly hidden enough. |
| 00:38.45 | ``Erik | and where's the ion globe??? :D |
| 00:38.50 | brlcad | yeah, that's like a wart on the floor |
| 00:39.34 | ``Erik | btw, are you gonna want your fancyassed dell back soon? I know how much you adore and miss it... |
| 00:39.36 | ``Erik | O:-) |
| 00:40.04 | ctj2 | ``Erik, here's my programming bible: http://www.60bits.net/STRAPs.pdf |
| 00:40.13 | ctj2 | Pay attention to section 9 |
| 00:40.30 | Twingy | straps doesn't sound office friendly |
| 00:40.34 | Twingy | maybe my mind is just in the gutter |
| 00:40.47 | ctj2 | System Tasks, Procedures and Responsibilities |
| 00:40.48 | brlcad | heh |
| 00:40.54 | Twingy | suuuure |
| 00:41.06 | ``Erik | or else what? |
| 00:41.31 | Twingy | Saddist Tickle Ravis Attractive Posture |
| 00:41.35 | ctj2 | No or else. Take a look, you might find it interesting history. |
| 00:42.25 | Twingy | what happened to the 151? |
| 00:42.33 | brlcad | ctj2: interesting document |
| 00:42.34 | ``Erik | drank it long ago |
| 00:42.47 | Twingy | gonna try white lightning now? |
| 00:42.56 | ``Erik | no |
| 00:42.59 | ``Erik | can't afford jack shit |
| 00:43.02 | ``Erik | much less jack daniels |
| 00:43.06 | ctj2 | Thank you. I helped write parts of that document. The entire group had input going from 9.3 to 9.4 |
| 00:43.13 | Twingy | I hear jack shit is on sale at coscov's for 99 cents a bottle |
| 00:43.22 | ``Erik | lee suggested I drive tomorrow, I suggested he buy my lunch, he didn't say no :o |
| 00:43.32 | Twingy | I think he wants to cook us ramen |
| 00:43.51 | ctj2 | Ok, Sean who are these people, they sound like they all hang out at the lab. |
| 00:43.54 | ``Erik | I think he wants to take me somewhere and get me drunk so he can drive my damn car back :( |
| 00:44.13 | ``Erik | we have no lab anymore :( |
| 00:44.22 | PrezKennedy | its a shack |
| 00:44.30 | PrezKennedy | shack(s) |
| 00:45.02 | ``Erik | shut up, bitch |
| 00:45.03 | ``Erik | :D |
| 00:45.18 | brlcad | ctj2: of various sorts -- you'd see them if you visited, don't think you know any of them |
| 00:45.28 | brlcad | cept PrezKennedy of course ;) |
| 00:45.35 | PrezKennedy | its supposed to get windy tonight... be careful ;-) |
| 00:45.47 | brlcad | PrezKennedy: you saying you ate beans? |
| 00:46.00 | PrezKennedy | taco bell |
| 00:46.01 | ctj2 | Thanks brlcad. I do miss the lab, lots at times. |
| 00:46.01 | PrezKennedy | ;-) |
| 00:46.03 | ``Erik | indeed, it will be windy |
| 00:47.42 | Twingy | drink some more so you can pass out and we can come take your chili |
| 00:48.08 | ``Erik | I am drinking some more... |
| 00:48.12 | PrezKennedy | then there'll be hurricane force winds |
| 00:48.31 | ``Erik | I'm not sure if you can handle the onion content, tho |
| 00:48.35 | Twingy | from erik drinking? |
| 00:48.45 | Twingy | I don't think he gets gas like that dude |
| 00:48.57 | Twingy | lee maybe... |
| 00:49.00 | ``Erik | no, mine is a soft and gentle breeze |
| 00:49.06 | ``Erik | that carries death and misery |
| 00:49.10 | PrezKennedy | nah after everyone else starts contributing once they get ahold of the chili |
| 00:49.39 | ``Erik | a tiny little pfft in the hall and poor justin whines about it from his desk in the corner :D |
| 00:50.35 | brlcad | ctj2: so with much lamenting and sadness, kicking screaming, and gnashing of teeth -- we're a few weeks away from a windows distribution |
| 00:50.45 | PrezKennedy | cool |
| 00:50.49 | Twingy | I bet if I ate some sauurkraut each day for lunch |
| 00:51.01 | ``Erik | ooh, we should go to the german place if it's still around |
| 00:51.08 | Twingy | yep |
| 00:51.17 | ``Erik | bratwurst, sauerkraut, mashed pertaters, and good german beer |
| 00:51.38 | brlcad | it's still around |
| 00:51.44 | ``Erik | we should make lee drive so we can get fitshaced |
| 00:51.46 | brlcad | though i'm hankering for some corral |
| 00:52.09 | brlcad | tried going saturday, there wasn't a single parking spot, even illegal ones |
| 00:52.09 | ``Erik | it'll make s2 much more bearable for ya, justin ;) |
| 00:52.18 | ``Erik | at what, corral? |
| 00:52.32 | ``Erik | guess their new location is workin' for 'em :) |
| 00:52.59 | ``Erik | dude, they're putting in an applebees where the old one was |
| 00:53.10 | brlcad | yeah, the line went out both doors |
| 00:53.17 | ctj2 | brlcad, should I be happy or sad about a windows release? |
| 00:53.27 | brlcad | it's a good bad |
| 00:53.40 | brlcad | the download rate and exposure is going to skyrocket |
| 00:53.49 | PrezKennedy | and i can use it! |
| 00:53.52 | ``Erik | heh, is the breakage bob gave us with that all fixed up? |
| 00:53.55 | brlcad | estimating 2-5k downloads a month |
| 00:54.01 | brlcad | (for just windows) |
| 00:54.38 | brlcad | ``Erik: pretty much -- i think I've weeded it all away finally |
| 00:54.53 | ``Erik | 'k, so I can start breaking it for fbsd and obsd again |
| 00:54.58 | brlcad | archer is still non-functional, but that was pretty much to be expected |
| 00:55.00 | Twingy | haha, breakage bob |
| 00:55.16 | ``Erik | "dude, bob, when we said 'break it down', that AIN'T what we meant!" |
| 00:55.30 | Twingy | fat fingered fred |
| 00:56.15 | PrezKennedy | fgat fiongers suick!!! |
| 00:56.33 | ``Erik | and that's why prezkennedy is never ever ever EVER allowed to be a sysadmin |
| 01:01.13 | CIA-13 | BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/tclscripts/archer/Archer.tcl: argv0 is not available for some reason, so catch the exception and conditionally call LoadArcherLibs |
| 01:01.13 | PrezKennedy | with that type of stress... may as well be the sysadmin's boss... he gets paid more |
| 01:02.16 | ``Erik | the massive paychecks, awe and respect of puny mortals, sexy models on my arm... |
| 01:02.17 | ``Erik | well |
| 01:02.20 | ``Erik | the paychecks, anyways |
| 01:02.41 | PrezKennedy | you were the master of your domain... in a way |
| 01:03.12 | ``Erik | "I am master of my dominion... I share the secrets of the clown" |
| 01:13.38 | Twingy | *archer fires arrow at thee in retaliation* |
| 01:13.57 | Twingy | HACK THE GIBSON!#@! |
| 01:14.05 | Twingy | o.O |
| 01:14.33 | Twingy | why couldn't they have had angelina say that line >_< |
| 01:18.28 | PrezKennedy | farewell... for now! |
| 01:18.36 | CIA-13 | BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/tclscripts/archer/Archer.tcl: more protections to avoid the can't read "env(ARCHER_HOME)": no such variable error when making the package index |
| 01:19.48 | ``Erik | heh |
| 01:35.15 | CIA-13 | BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/tclscripts/archer/cursor.tcl: make the other pkg_index error go away regarding: can't set "::blt::cursorWaitCount": parent namespace doesn't exist |
| 01:47.49 | pra5ad | gpu programming eh |
| 01:49.12 | Twingy | generic parental unit |
| 01:49.42 | pra5ad | were u at the bnd seminar? |
| 01:49.50 | Twingy | I was buying a truck |
| 01:50.00 | Twingy | :P |
| 01:50.05 | pra5ad | ah i missed that |
| 01:50.28 | pra5ad | overhyping to the maxxxxxxxx |
| 01:51.08 | Twingy | was she passing out coffee mugs? |
| 01:55.40 | pra5ad | felt like it |
| 01:56.09 | Twingy | you get hit in the head with a coffee mug? |
| 01:56.25 | pra5ad | felt like it |
| 01:56.31 | Twingy | haha |
| 02:06.49 | ``Erik | heh |
| 02:07.00 | Twingy | how was the onions? |
| 02:07.04 | ``Erik | tomorrow, I think I'm gonna try to give her an idea of how horribly bad our shit is |
| 02:07.05 | ``Erik | tasty |
| 02:07.17 | Twingy | I think you should talk her into putting the logo on coffee mugs |
| 02:07.41 | ``Erik | we have software that does a task... the task being doen using the software itself takes... 3 seconds. The software as a whole takes... 1-2 hrs |
| 02:08.05 | Twingy | ...and if you had coffee mugs you'd have something to do while its running |
| 02:08.28 | ``Erik | 0.083% of our runtime is... useful. |
| 02:08.33 | ``Erik | tops |
| 02:08.39 | Twingy | and 0.083% of our management is useful :} |
| 02:08.49 | ``Erik | that many? |
| 02:08.49 | ``Erik | :D |
| 02:12.50 | *** join/#brlcad DTRemenak (n=DTRemena@DHCP-170-143.caltech.edu) | |
| 02:13.52 | pra5ad | so the interact #s made sense? |
| 02:15.08 | ``Erik | I think so |
| 02:15.34 | ``Erik | I'd like to string the rt to the interactor, or do a timeing experiment higher up, or something.. |
| 02:16.26 | Twingy | I'd like to build robotic monkies to make me ham sandwiches |
| 02:16.39 | ``Erik | even if the #'s aren't very close, the preliminary is over 1000x difference, dude... |
| 02:16.55 | Twingy | orders shmorders of magnitude |
| 02:17.05 | Twingy | here's a theory |
| 02:17.17 | pra5ad | heh |
| 02:17.21 | Twingy | maybe dixie is some kinda cyborg that doesn't age |
| 02:17.31 | Twingy | and so run times are irrelevent o.O |
| 02:17.46 | Twingy | like the replicators y0 |
| 02:20.02 | ``Erik | heh |
| 02:20.50 | Twingy | I think we should all get extra jobs at home depot on saturdays |
| 02:20.53 | Twingy | then when we slack off |
| 02:20.59 | Twingy | we don't tell on each other |
| 02:21.26 | Twingy | Home Depot / M3 team |
| 02:25.18 | ``Erik | erm |
| 02:25.23 | ``Erik | I'm not calling it 'm3' anymore |
| 02:25.29 | ``Erik | I refuse to sully the name of my vehicle |
| 02:25.36 | pra5ad | too late |
| 02:26.08 | pra5ad | should have bought the m4.. 'better than m3 in more ways than one' |
| 02:26.18 | ``Erik | been reading on that just now |
| 02:26.23 | ``Erik | m4 is just the '06 m3 coupe |
| 02:26.33 | Twingy | hah |
| 02:26.48 | Twingy | then his car would have to have a regular expression parser in the engine computer |
| 02:26.49 | brlcad | original pranksta |
| 02:26.56 | Twingy | YOU CAN DOIT! |
| 02:27.00 | ``Erik | uh huh, uh huh |
| 02:27.15 | ``Erik | damn we're a pack of nerds |
| 02:28.35 | phcoder | oonter geleebin gloatin glovin |
| 02:29.06 | pra5ad | brlcad, |
| 02:29.26 | pra5ad | how do i drill down a directory struct |
| 02:29.44 | pra5ad | (i think u answered this already.. /me has bad memory) |
| 02:31.47 | brlcad | what do you mean by drill down? |
| 02:32.35 | pra5ad | iterate over all nodes in the dir |
| 02:32.43 | brlcad | ah, traverse the nodes for a particular assembly |
| 02:32.44 | pra5ad | what were the fns/where are they |
| 02:32.48 | brlcad | yeah, I did answer that :) |
| 02:32.55 | pra5ad | which header |
| 02:33.06 | brlcad | heh, raytrace.h ;) |
| 02:33.13 | brlcad | but that won't get you very far |
| 02:33.17 | brlcad | what do you need to do? |
| 02:33.23 | brlcad | do you care about intermediate combinations? |
| 02:33.29 | brlcad | or just the leaf nodes? |
| 02:33.50 | pra5ad | for later yes, but for now just the leaves will do |
| 02:34.17 | pra5ad | also, what's the point of DIR_HIDDEN |
| 02:34.31 | *** join/#brlcad Twingy (n=justin@pcp0011649600pcs.aberdn01.md.comcast.net) | |
| 02:34.47 | pra5ad | and the difference between DIR_SOLID/REGION/COMB |
| 02:35.17 | brlcad | db_functree() is probably the easiest for you to use, keeping it simple when you do decide to look at the intermediates |
| 02:35.37 | pra5ad | ahh yes |
| 02:35.46 | brlcad | geometry in a .g can be hidden so you don't see it in listings |
| 02:36.10 | pra5ad | there's no special signficance? it's user discretion? |
| 02:36.10 | brlcad | can be used as a means to manage intermediate objects being edited for example |
| 02:37.27 | brlcad | it's got meaning, it means it's hidden so applications are expected to respect the hidden and ignore those objects unless you're a command/operation that wants/needs to manage hidden objects |
| 02:37.44 | brlcad | e.g. ls command needs to ignore hidden objects |
| 02:38.34 | brlcad | but a database converter wouldn't necessarily want to ignore them |
| 02:38.46 | brlcad | it's app discretion -- not user discretion :) |
| 02:38.55 | brlcad | for you, probably should ignore them |
| 02:38.57 | pra5ad | k |
| 02:39.17 | brlcad | a solid is a primitive, e.g. a BOT or a sphere or an arb, etc |
| 02:39.24 | brlcad | er, a DIR_SOLID |
| 02:39.49 | brlcad | a DIR_REGION is a combination that has been marked as a region |
| 02:39.57 | brlcad | a region signifies "something physical" |
| 02:40.15 | brlcad | it'd be a "part" in pro/e unigraphics lingo |
| 02:41.01 | brlcad | combinations are just that -- some csg combination of objects (other combinations, regions, or solids) |
| 02:41.20 | pra5ad | g-nmg preserves em? |
| 02:41.33 | brlcad | preserves? |
| 02:41.43 | pra5ad | the comb nodes |
| 02:41.52 | pra5ad | tho that doesnt make sense.. |
| 02:41.57 | brlcad | you can have combination nodes above and below the region level |
| 02:42.13 | brlcad | the converter collapses the nodes below the region level iirc |
| 02:42.54 | brlcad | above the region level, they are expected to just be unions (i.e. "collections" or groups) |
| 02:43.13 | brlcad | below the region level, they can be arbitrary CSG operations (subtractions, unions, intersections) |
| 02:43.19 | pra5ad | ah |
| 02:44.10 | ``Erik | I need a new furry helmet |
| 02:46.04 | Twingy | now that you got a sun roof |
| 02:46.10 | Twingy | you can wear one of those beer hats |
| 02:46.43 | pra5ad | is it legal to specify a NULL functor as the comb node callback? |
| 02:51.51 | pra5ad | guess it works |
| 02:51.52 | pra5ad | =) |
| 02:53.44 | pra5ad | t62 has 1004 bots :o |
| 02:54.16 | Twingy | the csg version mebe |
| 02:54.28 | pra5ad | no, g-nmg converted |
| 02:54.37 | Twingy | that aint ryte |
| 02:54.46 | pra5ad | leaves are always of type DIR_SOLID ? |
| 02:54.57 | pra5ad | leafs |
| 02:54.58 | pra5ad | .. |
| 02:55.39 | pra5ad | havoc-bot has 297 meshes |
| 02:55.43 | pra5ad | er bots |
| 02:55.52 | Twingy | ohh bots |
| 02:55.58 | Twingy | yea, that's right |
| 02:56.48 | pra5ad | oh? |
| 03:09.14 | ctj2 | Good night all. |
| 03:15.35 | brlcad | pra5ad: yeah, that's like the definition of a leaf |
| 03:17.30 | CIA-13 | BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/other/blt/Makefile.am: i suppose only one of the tk files wasn't needed due to conflicts.. the others seem rather important due to runtime symbol errors.. ;) |
| 03:17.33 | pra5ad | check my priv msg |
| 03:19.43 | CIA-13 | BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/tclscripts/archer/LoadArcherLibs.tcl: load the blt library by getting lib out of the bu_brlcad_root path.. need to refactor this puppy, but it should work irrespective of the other stuff |
| 03:20.24 | brlcad | it's a list of references to the leaf |
| 03:20.43 | brlcad | can be referenced n times, don't think that's what you want |
| 03:20.46 | pra5ad | so how would i get the soltab from a dp? |
| 03:21.11 | brlcad | hm, i pasted code for that too |
| 03:21.21 | brlcad | you convert to 'internal' format |
| 03:21.32 | brlcad | for starters |
| 03:21.42 | pra5ad | the dp to internal? |
| 03:22.25 | brlcad | rt_db_get_internal( &intern, dp, dbip, NULL, &rt_uniresource ) |
| 03:22.45 | brlcad | pass it the dp, your dbip, and an internal structure for it to fill in |
| 03:23.12 | brlcad | struct rt_db_internal intern; |
| 03:23.33 | brlcad | rt_uniresource is a global, you should be able to use it as is |
| 03:23.43 | brlcad | (provided by the library) |
| 03:24.06 | brlcad | unless you want to handle multithreaded (which wouldn't help you much for an rt_db_get_internal()) |
| 03:25.17 | brlcad | if you've already determined it's a bot, you can cast the intern.idb_ptr after rt_db_get_internal() to a bot internal |
| 03:25.39 | pra5ad | ah |
| 03:25.45 | brlcad | e.g. struct rt_bot_internal *bot = (struct rt_bot_internal *)intern.idb_ptr; |
| 03:26.08 | brlcad | that "is" an actual bot, deserialized in all it's internal glory |
| 03:26.33 | pra5ad | righto =) |
| 03:36.56 | pra5ad | nooo |
| 03:37.07 | pra5ad | how do i determine if it's a bot |
| 03:37.16 | pra5ad | before the cast |
| 03:37.37 | pra5ad | soltab has a type_id |
| 03:38.30 | pra5ad | ohhh nm |
| 03:38.32 | pra5ad | ;) |
| 03:38.49 | pra5ad | rt_db_get_internal returns the type id |
| 04:02.03 | pra5ad | how do i close a db created by rt_dirbuild? i'm doing rt_clean(rtip*) , but when i reopen it w/ rt_dirbuild, db_dircheck whines about duplicates |
| 04:02.27 | pra5ad | also, why not use the db_* funcs? |
| 04:03.22 | pra5ad | im looking at g-xxx.c; seems simple enough |
| 04:12.09 | brlcad | db_close(dbip); |
| 04:12.21 | brlcad | nothing wrong with the db_ funcs |
| 04:12.28 | brlcad | they work hand in hand with the rt funcs |
| 04:12.52 | pra5ad | k so rt_clean is wrong |
| 04:15.46 | brlcad | rt_clean() is for deallocating per-cpu resources, nothing at all to do with directories |
| 04:16.04 | brlcad | has to do with raytracing data management (e.g. prep'd data) |
| 05:21.22 | justin_ | http://www.reputable.com/o2.html |
| 05:21.35 | justin_ | look for initials JS, circa 1999 :) |
| 06:36.23 | *** join/#brlcad kaol_ (n=kari@sammakko.yok.utu.fi) | |
| 08:17.13 | *** join/#brlcad DTRemenak (n=DTRemena@DHCP-170-143.caltech.edu) | |
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| 11:05.41 | brlcad | heh, The core dumped, oh my. |
| 11:10.01 | clock_ | china syndrome |
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| 11:54.58 | ``Erik | o.O |
| 14:13.05 | Twingy | lunch time yet? |
| 14:31.09 | Twingy | you should come to grumpies with us |
| 14:31.35 | ``Erik | who all is 'us'? |
| 14:31.46 | Twingy | um, me and uh, you, and uh others :) |
| 14:31.59 | ``Erik | heh |
| 14:32.17 | ``Erik | <-- got up at 4am and ran budget numbers o.O bein' po' sucks |
| 14:32.28 | Twingy | eww |
| 14:32.40 | Twingy | 4am... that's like 3 hours after I went to bed |
| 14:32.43 | ``Erik | also watched new rvb and strangerhood |
| 14:32.54 | ``Erik | heh, it was 4 hours after I went to bed... |
| 14:33.03 | ``Erik | just couldn't get back to sleep :/ |
| 14:33.14 | Twingy | I bet it was the onions |
| 14:33.25 | ``Erik | doubt it |
| 14:33.46 | Twingy | the onions stole your car and drove away with your wallet |
| 14:33.58 | Twingy | :) |
| 14:34.11 | Twingy | you just don't remember any of this |
| 14:34.36 | ``Erik | they musta hit me over the head with the bag of potatos next to 'em |
| 14:35.00 | ``Erik | mmm potato juice |
| 14:35.11 | Twingy | you should try making vodka |
| 14:35.24 | ``Erik | that's a little illegal without a license |
| 14:35.36 | Twingy | ah |
| 14:37.01 | Twingy | and if you make it wrong you go blind :) |
| 14:37.08 | clock_ | The Original Onions? |
| 14:37.17 | clock_ | That's a surf rock band that produces freely distributable music |
| 14:37.36 | clock_ | Actually very good one |
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| 19:49.13 | CIA-13 | BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/archer/plugins/ (utility.tcl wizards.tcl): only traverse into Utility and Wizards if they actually exist |
| 20:26.38 | Twingy | heh |
| 20:26.48 | Twingy | they make a super charger to take my truck from 150HP to 230HP |
| 20:27.07 | Twingy | does 1/4 mile in 15 seconds |
| 20:32.34 | ``Erik | hrmmmm |
| 20:32.59 | ``Erik | here's a turbo that gives 7.5 psi for my car... (even thought they call it a supercharger)... 499hp |
| 20:33.23 | Twingy | nutty |
| 20:33.26 | Twingy | how much? |
| 20:33.27 | ``Erik | huh, actually, the literature sounds like a real supercharger, mebbe they just put a lame pic up |
| 20:33.30 | Twingy | mine would cost me $2700 |
| 20:33.38 | ``Erik | heh, 10,900 |
| 20:33.38 | ``Erik | :D |
| 20:33.44 | ``Erik | (but damn, 499hp) |
| 20:34.04 | Twingy | at that point the car would probly not be aeraodynamic enough to handle |
| 20:34.12 | Twingy | aerodynamic |
| 20:34.24 | ``Erik | I d'no, cf is .33 |
| 20:34.27 | Twingy | unless you dropped it some more and put a wing on |
| 20:34.33 | ``Erik | corvette is .32 iirc |
| 20:34.43 | ``Erik | my truck was .43 and fairly slippery for a truck |
| 20:36.56 | Twingy | my engine block is cast iron |
| 20:37.07 | ``Erik | cool |
| 20:39.43 | Twingy | mine is 0.4 it appears |
| 20:39.55 | ``Erik | cool |
| 20:40.07 | Twingy | the super charger would be fun |
| 20:40.18 | Twingy | but I'd just end up wasting more gas |
| 20:40.53 | ``Erik | I read that some company in california does electric conversions of vehicles, and they did an s10 with the same geometry as mine to run full electric... added a tonnea cover and air dam to drop the cf from .42 or whatever to .34 |
| 20:41.03 | Twingy | spoke with that guy in aberdeen on rhino lining, $410 |
| 20:41.07 | ``Erik | cool |
| 20:41.09 | Twingy | better than $680 dealer quote |
| 20:41.20 | Twingy | ford used to have the Ford Ranger EV |
| 20:41.24 | Twingy | in '02 or '03 |
| 20:41.55 | Twingy | I like mitsubishi's approach |
| 20:42.01 | Twingy | where they are bolting on 2 electric motors, one to each wheel |
| 20:42.15 | Twingy | no efficiently loss moving through gears and pinions |
| 20:42.53 | ``Erik | http://www.autofieldguide.com/articles/079701.html has some shit about electrifying a mid truck, heh |
| 20:43.56 | ``Erik | (guess it was outta chevy, not a shop) |
| 20:44.02 | ``Erik | why'd I think that o.O must be going senile |
| 20:44.17 | Twingy | I think if they go back to the hydrogen vehicle approach |
| 20:44.28 | Twingy | and use the the electricity to gather hydrogen |
| 20:44.37 | Twingy | since you can pack more energy into the same volume, it'd sell better |
| 20:44.42 | Twingy | since all you'd need is water |
| 20:44.57 | Twingy | plug it in, fill it with a gallon of water... wait |
| 20:45.18 | Twingy | make the filling unit portable |
| 20:45.40 | Twingy | make a 240V and 120V switch |
| 20:46.05 | Twingy | figure it'd cost about $2k since it'd need a small chunk of gold |
| 20:46.49 | ``Erik | hrmmmmm, I wonder if there're any cheaper metals that'd do the trick... link, zinc or nickel |
| 20:47.12 | Twingy | irridium, platinum, palladium, gold, and one other I think |
| 20:47.42 | Twingy | I think Mercuty |
| 20:47.44 | Twingy | Mercury |
| 20:48.10 | Twingy | I think mercury would be the easiest to work with |
| 20:48.22 | ``Erik | hrm, but it's liquid at stp |
| 20:48.29 | Twingy | since you can jab your copper probe into it |
| 20:48.38 | Twingy | and not worry about things corroding around the wire |
| 20:48.44 | Twingy | since all it ever hits is the mercury |
| 20:48.49 | Twingy | well |
| 20:48.54 | Twingy | the walls of the filler |
| 20:49.10 | Twingy | the problem is always the connection between the precious mettal and the insulator |
| 20:49.14 | Twingy | it breaks it down |
| 20:49.21 | ``Erik | hm, true |
| 20:49.22 | Twingy | a gold wire with plastic insulator will eat plastic away slowly |
| 20:49.35 | Twingy | it's a very hard problem |
| 20:49.41 | Twingy | unless you make part of the process disposable |
| 20:49.42 | ``Erik | small cups in the bottom with wires in them, then mercury fills the cups? |
| 20:49.46 | Twingy | which is probly the cheapest way to do it |
| 20:49.56 | Twingy | yes, but the cups would get eaten away |
| 20:50.05 | ``Erik | why |
| 20:50.06 | ``Erik | ? |
| 20:50.13 | Twingy | cause the mercury is touching the cups |
| 20:50.25 | ``Erik | and mercury would eat plastic? |
| 20:50.27 | ``Erik | o.O |
| 20:50.38 | Twingy | no, the electrolysis would |
| 20:50.46 | Twingy | very slowly |
| 20:51.02 | Twingy | it would eat away at it about 1 mil (not milimeter, but one mil) an hour |
| 20:51.30 | Twingy | I think the most practicaly approach is a disposable sleeve that goes around the gold probe |
| 20:51.42 | Twingy | you replace it every... 5 charges |
| 20:51.46 | Twingy | costs you $1 |
| 20:53.06 | Twingy | and a tiny bottle of sulfuric acid |
| 20:53.18 | Twingy | that drips into the reservoir when resistance gets too high |
| 20:53.32 | Twingy | which you replace once a year |
| 20:54.02 | Twingy | and a vent tube that vents oxygen and other gases outside |
| 20:55.13 | Twingy | put on a tiny 3k psi compressor like my hand pump, and you're set |
| 20:55.45 | ``Erik | hrmmm |
| 20:55.52 | ``Erik | rebuilt tranny would be $350-400 |
| 20:56.02 | Twingy | sure it's not the clutch? |
| 20:56.18 | ``Erik | ye |
| 20:56.21 | ``Erik | clutch is like $50 |
| 20:56.22 | ``Erik | heh |
| 20:56.30 | ``Erik | oh, you mean broken? |
| 20:56.34 | Twingy | yea |
| 20:56.36 | ``Erik | quite |
| 20:56.57 | Twingy | gonna do it? |
| 20:57.02 | Twingy | or scrap it for $1k? |
| 20:57.06 | ``Erik | the clutch engages and disengages fine, the stick has no control |
| 20:57.14 | ``Erik | I intend to fix it... |
| 20:58.48 | ``Erik | here's one for $250 |
| 21:00.34 | Twingy | I need to head to H&R block |
| 21:00.40 | Twingy | I want my $1200 tax return |
| 21:00.43 | ``Erik | heh |
| 21:00.50 | ``Erik | I need to get the rest of my forms and shit |
| 21:01.04 | Twingy | I've got house stuff and w2 |
| 21:01.21 | ``Erik | the only hosue stuff I've gotten is the escrow interest w2 |
| 21:02.30 | Twingy | I figure with my return money I can buy my hard wood floor and mill |
| 21:03.47 | ``Erik | pick me up a gm nv1500 while you're out |
| 21:03.48 | ``Erik | o.O |
| 21:03.57 | Twingy | heh, I just bought a 3d card a few nights ago |
| 21:04.06 | ``Erik | gm, not nvidia |
| 21:04.14 | ``Erik | that's the kinda transmission my truck uses... |
| 21:04.18 | ``Erik | O:-) |
| 21:04.27 | Twingy | nv reminded me of nvidia |
| 21:04.46 | Twingy | bought a fx5200 or something |
| 21:04.50 | Twingy | for the computer upstairs |
| 21:04.56 | Twingy | it's got no three-dee |
| 21:05.00 | Twingy | 1.3ghz celery |
| 21:05.32 | ``Erik | all'z I know is when I start X, the machine starts posting... |
| 21:05.38 | Twingy | heh |
| 21:09.18 | Twingy | with the pooper I drove 14k miles a year |
| 21:09.46 | ``Erik | trips to jersey and nc probably accounted for half of that |
| 21:10.01 | Twingy | 6k miles will be work |
| 21:10.05 | Twingy | yep |
| 21:10.15 | Twingy | I have 1 trip planned for nc |
| 21:10.25 | Twingy | mom is giving me her new'ish $1700 couch |
| 21:10.34 | Twingy | bought it in |
| 21:10.37 | Twingy | '02 I think |
| 21:10.39 | ``Erik | sweet |
| 21:10.44 | Twingy | 2 recliners on each end |
| 21:10.53 | ``Erik | man, I have to make due with that pos couch I ave |
| 21:10.53 | Twingy | gonna move the leather couch to the basement |
| 21:10.54 | ``Erik | :( |
| 21:11.02 | Twingy | I think I've speant a total of about 50 hours in that couch |
| 21:11.04 | Twingy | heh |
| 21:11.06 | Twingy | and paid $900 for it |
| 21:11.26 | Twingy | I guess I'll throw it in the basement for now |
| 21:15.22 | Twingy | I wonder how long carbon nano tube engines will last |
| 21:15.37 | Twingy | would be nice having a warranty on the first million miles |
| 21:15.56 | Twingy | even 500k |
| 21:21.30 | ``Erik | they'd find someone to engineer breakage in |
| 21:21.32 | ``Erik | O.o |
| 21:34.22 | Twingy | how big is your tank? |
| 21:34.34 | ``Erik | uhmmm, on my car or truck? |
| 21:34.40 | Twingy | both |
| 21:34.51 | ``Erik | truck is 19g, d'no about the car, probably close to the same |
| 21:36.42 | Twingy | ah, mine appears to be 19.5 |
| 21:36.43 | ``Erik | the 02 is 16.6 |
| 21:36.56 | Twingy | hehe O2 |
| 21:36.59 | ``Erik | the only utility of tank size is range.. |
| 21:37.02 | Twingy | little blue toaster |
| 21:37.04 | ``Erik | indeed |
| 21:37.12 | Twingy | see my O2 haiku? |
| 21:37.15 | ``Erik | yeah |
| 21:37.16 | ``Erik | dork |
| 21:37.17 | ``Erik | :D |
| 21:37.18 | Twingy | :) |
| 21:37.30 | Twingy | that has to be my oldest mark on the web |
| 21:37.40 | Twingy | too bad my midi challenge page from '96 is gone |
| 21:38.13 | ``Erik | I put a program on the web as shareware in '96, even got some money |
| 21:38.50 | Twingy | I got $5 for a gold handicapper in basic in '96 hehe |
| 21:38.54 | Twingy | err golf |
| 21:39.11 | Twingy | 30 cents an hour, woot |
| 21:39.15 | ``Erik | hehehe |
| 21:39.27 | Twingy | bill gates makes $32 per heart beat |
| 21:40.02 | Twingy | Want to give more power to the standard 3.0-liter V-6? That's easy. Just install the Ranger Whipple Supercharger. Available through Ford Racing Performance Parts, this kit creates a super-charged engine achieving 230 hp at 5,400 rpm and 260 lb.-ft. of torque at 3,000 rpm. It is an easy-to-install system that fits under the hood with no permanent modifications to the vehicle and no wiring. |
| 21:40.22 | ``Erik | heh |
| 21:40.44 | ``Erik | there's always a risk with overpressuring... |
| 21:40.55 | Twingy | I aint racing nobody |
| 21:41.00 | Twingy | so I got not need |
| 21:41.10 | Twingy | I do have racing stripes though :} |
| 21:41.20 | Twingy | +5% speed |
| 21:41.21 | Guu | Twingy: Don't make me shoot you. |
| 21:41.40 | Twingy | you're lacking 5% then |
| 21:41.46 | Twingy | and 10% for no fin |
| 21:41.51 | Twingy | and 20% for missing 2 bug eaters |
| 21:48.15 | Twingy | http://www.yaplakal.com/uploads/previews/post-3-1138125896.jpg |
| 21:50.37 | ``Erik | O.o |
| 21:51.08 | Twingy | looks like seaweed |
| 21:51.15 | Twingy | or rice |
| 21:51.28 | Twingy | windows sushi computer? |
| 22:24.38 | docelic | Someone was very bored |
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| 00:47.20 | CIA-13 | BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/TODO: fix archer file headers (update to indicate the assigned copyright that bob said they needed to be (see commit on src/archer/archer)) |
| 02:50.17 | pra5ad | hmm.. ERROR: bad pointer x805f570: s/b struct resource(x83651835), was Zero_Magic_Number(x0), file db_match.c, line 193 |
| 02:50.27 | pra5ad | when using db_open |
| 02:52.09 | pra5ad | nm, needed db_dirbuild |
| 03:04.34 | ``Erik | heh |
| 05:30.06 | learner | actually, you technically needed to init the global resource structure, but db_dirbuild does that for you |
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| 18:22.02 | Twingy | ``Erik: 180lb-ft of torque w/o super |
| 18:23.31 | Twingy | 260lb-ft of torque w/ super |
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| 20:05.46 | ``Erik | that's a lot of burnt rubber |
| 20:06.03 | ``Erik | if you could figure out how to shift the weight back to hold the drive wheels down, it'd scoot |
| 20:10.06 | Twingy | yea |
| 20:10.12 | Twingy | flooring tiles :) |
| 20:10.20 | Twingy | or Ed and Chuck :) |
| 20:13.24 | archivist | you need torque and weight ? http://www.oldengine.org/members/diesel/Marine/Fullagar1.htm |
| 20:15.45 | Twingy | mmm 3,000 hp |
| 20:16.12 | Twingy | I suppose if my truck magically didn't get crushed under its own weight, I could dust erik |
| 20:16.35 | Twingy | of course, as soon as I drove under a power line my truck would blow up |
| 20:17.42 | archivist | theres 1 or 2 fullagar's in oz else they've all been scrapped |
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| 20:22.23 | Twingy | oz? |
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| 20:25.47 | archivist_ | australia |
| 20:26.03 | Twingy | ah |
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| 20:45.50 | CIA-13 | BRL-CAD: 03bob1961 * 10brlcad/src/tclscripts/archer/Archer.tcl: Add code to properly set the state of the edit buttons in the right side toolbar. |
| 21:54.21 | CIA-13 | BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/configure.ac: meh, ordering cleanup |
| 21:56.21 | CIA-13 | BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/m4/stage.m4: if stdout has been redirected to a file, don't output ansi control sequences |
| 22:02.53 | ``Erik | burgerland |
| 22:03.48 | ``Erik | (bear in mind, you need torque/weight for acceleration, you need weight on the drive wheels for traction... the more weight you add to the back, the more torque you need to maintain acceleration) |
| 22:04.29 | Twingy | yea, torque/weight curve peak |
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| 22:05.30 | ``Erik | one reason trucks don't drag so well unless they have enough torque right off the line to pick the nose up and hold it there until you're fast enough that you lose the force where the tire contacts... :) |
| 22:05.59 | Twingy | it aint a racing machine :) |
| 22:06.03 | ``Erik | newp |
| 22:06.27 | ``Erik | I should make you tow my truck to your place and help me pick up a transmission, then use your garage to fix it :D *duck* |
| 22:06.46 | Twingy | heh |
| 22:06.52 | Twingy | my garage aint got no room in it |
| 22:06.59 | Twingy | still organizing stuff |
| 22:07.00 | ``Erik | like $250 for a full refurb'd tranny |
| 22:07.16 | ``Erik | get that shit cleaned up and get your towing hitch, bo' |
| 22:07.19 | ``Erik | :D *duck* |
| 22:07.55 | Twingy | gonna ask wendy for a day off next week |
| 22:08.02 | ``Erik | for the hitch? |
| 22:08.05 | Twingy | so'z I can do important things like get a hitch |
| 22:08.22 | Twingy | yea, I need to redeem my free hitch coupon, haha |
| 22:08.54 | Twingy | I suspect if I asked for free bed liner he'd have flipped me off |
| 22:09.00 | ``Erik | probably |
| 22:09.39 | Twingy | I think they only made $900 off me instead of the average $1200 |
| 22:09.44 | Twingy | for this particular vehicle |
| 22:09.47 | ``Erik | heh |
| 22:10.11 | Twingy | MSRP minus dealer invoice |
| 22:10.57 | ``Erik | 'cept dealer pays less than invoice |
| 22:11.13 | ``Erik | they get 'incentive' rebates and shit |
| 22:11.20 | Twingy | I thought dealer invoice is what *they* pay, and msrp is what they *try* to get YOU to pay |
| 22:11.24 | Twingy | ah |
| 22:11.29 | Twingy | rebates, mebe |
| 22:14.09 | ``Erik | shooting copper slugs at mars, hrm |
| 22:14.32 | ``Erik | (and here I thought copper was finding it's way to the list of rare metals, heh) |
| 22:15.48 | Twingy | folks, I'd like to sing about the american dream, about me, about you, about the way our american hears beat way down in the bottom of our chests, maybe in the chest, maybe in the cockles, maybe in the sub cockles, maybe even in the colon. |
| 22:34.38 | ``Erik | sean, help me out here... /usr/brlcad/bin/perf.sh: file ../pix/moss.log does not exist, aborting |
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| 23:25.00 | justin_ | wee, picked up some lumber tonight |
| 23:35.54 | CIA-13 | BRL-CAD: 03lbutler * 10brlcad/src/mged/typein.c: |
| 23:35.54 | CIA-13 | BRL-CAD: When making an rpp whose min value is greater than the max value, we now report |
| 23:35.54 | CIA-13 | BRL-CAD: the values so the user knows which ones were the problem. |
| 00:19.28 | justin_ | was off by 3 degrees when I lined it up though :( |
| 00:19.42 | justin_ | good thing this'll be under a bunch of drywall |
| 00:21.44 | brlcad | hehe |
| 00:24.36 | ``Erik | 3 degrees? damn you suck |
| 00:25.38 | ``Erik | shoulda bought one of them deisel sipping wussmobiles o.O :D |
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| 02:09.56 | justin_ | heh |
| 03:49.48 | pra5ad | what's sean's email addy |
| 04:01.15 | pra5ad | segfault on g-nmg 35.g |
| 04:10.37 | brlcad | backtrace? |
| 04:14.48 | CIA-13 | BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10rt^3/misc/ (footer.sh header.sh indent.sh shtool): import helper scripts from brl-cad |
| 04:16.01 | CIA-13 | BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10rt^3/misc/Makefile.defs: import definitions makefile from brl-cad for common make build rules |
| 04:16.34 | CIA-13 | BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10rt^3/misc/Makefile.am: add initial Makefile.am |
| 04:16.56 | pra5ad | ah he's back |
| 04:16.56 | pra5ad | sec |
| 04:17.18 | pra5ad | http://pastebin.com/525134 |
| 04:18.03 | CIA-13 | BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10rt^3/misc/libtool.m4: add aux libtool.m4 file that gets moved to m4/ if there's a libtool failure |
| 04:18.44 | CIA-13 | BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10rt^3/misc/.cvsignore: initial (empty) .cvsignore |
| 04:19.51 | pra5ad | oh also |
| 04:20.09 | pra5ad | t62 local2base is 1.0 , havoc is 10.0 |
| 04:20.23 | pra5ad | in the final render, havoc is much smaller than the t62 |
| 04:20.29 | pra5ad | which one is wrong |
| 04:22.07 | CIA-13 | BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10rt^3/m4/ (9 files): initial m4 helper macros, imported from brl-cad build system |
| 04:33.34 | brlcad | sounds like you're scaling the wrong way |
| 04:33.44 | brlcad | * vs / |
| 04:36.34 | brlcad | should be a mulitiplier iirc |
| 04:36.59 | brlcad | e.g. havoc is in units centimeters, t62 is millimeters |
| 04:40.34 | brlcad | so if you don't scale the values, havoc will be a tenth the size |
| 04:43.14 | CIA-13 | BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10rt^3/m4/Makefile.am: initial Makefile.am, adding m4 files to project |
| 04:45.12 | CIA-13 | BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10rt^3/.cvsignore: initial (empty) .cvsignore |
| 04:45.52 | CIA-13 | BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10rt^3/autogen.sh: update script to latest, importing update from brl-cad main |
| 04:47.35 | CIA-13 | BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10rt^3/configure.ac: massive updates, borrowing from lessons learned in the brl-cad main. utilize the new m4 macros. stub out support for basic generic application build option support |
| 04:50.36 | CIA-13 | BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10rt^3/Makefile.am: massive updates, borrowing from lessons learned in the brl-cad main. improve the support report and validation of the install dir permissions. inform aclocal to search the m4 directory for macros |
| 04:52.32 | CIA-13 | BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10rt^3/src/libGeometry/Vec.cxx: include math.h for sqrt() |
| 04:54.25 | CIA-13 | BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10rt^3/Makefile.am: include m4 and misc dirs in the distribution |
| 04:55.39 | CIA-13 | BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10rt^3/configure.ac: generate the m4/ and misc/ Makefiles |
| 05:07.26 | pra5ad | arr rwheel.g conversion is missing a lot of parts |
| 05:37.02 | pra5ad | dude, * vs / doesnt matter |
| 05:37.17 | pra5ad | if i mult, havoc is too big |
| 05:37.25 | pra5ad | as in 10x |
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| 13:12.16 | CIA-13 | BRL-CAD: 03bob1961 * 10brlcad/src/tclscripts/archer/Archer.tcl: Convert a few instance variables into class variables. |
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| 16:19.22 | Ordog | hi |
| 16:19.48 | Ordog | i got a rather complex model consisting of 6 iges files |
| 16:20.26 | Ordog | i need to lower polycount or sth else |
| 16:20.44 | Ordog | do you know a way to do that with rhino or this tool ? |
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| 22:07.22 | CIA-13 | BRL-CAD: 03bob1961 * 10brlcad/misc/win32-msvc7/ (libdm/libdm.vcproj mged/mged.vcproj): Not using embedded framebuffer in MGED on Windows. |
| 22:11.33 | CIA-13 | BRL-CAD: 03bob1961 * 10brlcad/src/mged/ (cmd.c cmd.h): Added cmd_has_embedded_fb(). |
| 22:16.26 | CIA-13 | BRL-CAD: 03bob1961 * 10brlcad/src/tclscripts/mged/rt.tcl: Added the rt_check_dest proc. Disable framebuffer related menu items as these are pertinant only to the embedded framebuffer. |
| 22:16.54 | *** part/#brlcad raz (n=rarunaog@pool-138-88-148-253.esr.east.verizon.net) | |
| 22:19.38 | CIA-13 | BRL-CAD: 03bob1961 * 10brlcad/src/tclscripts/archer/cursor.tcl: The package require's argument needs to be BLT on Windows. |
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| 00:23.58 | *** topic/#brlcad is http://brlcad.org/ || BRL-CAD is now Free Software! || BRL-CAD Windows port has been merged to HEAD, not yet stable yet || Archer is now on HEAD as well, kick the tires, report any bugs || there WILL be a 7.6.8 released ASAP for January after all | |
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| 00:36.59 | CIA-13 | BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/ (128 files in 26 dirs): header cleanup, atof() requires stdlib.h on altix/posix, fix 64-bitness |
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| 04:02.00 | justin_ | welp |
| 04:02.04 | justin_ | scuba tank can be refilled now |
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| 22:46.51 | CIA-13 | BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/ (15 files in 3 dirs): header cleanup, include stdlib.h for atol(). fixes some 64-bitness |
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| 00:52.24 | CIA-13 | BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/ (19 files in 11 dirs): more libbu memory management and header cleanup |
| 01:40.26 | CIA-13 | BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/conv/ (5 files in 3 dirs): update converters to the API changes, avoiding the deprecated calls |
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| 08:39.59 | CIA-13 | BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/ (9 files in 6 dirs): update to api changes from rt_* to bu_* for certain routines. |
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| 20:37.33 | egsavage | Hello everyone |
| 20:38.55 | egsavage | First, does anyone know of a binary distribution for ubuntu? Failing that, I'm trying to get past some 'configure' issues on my ubuntu box. Issue is the message: configure: error: C++ preprocessor "gcc -E" fails sanity check |
| 20:59.58 | brlcad | hello |
| 21:00.49 | brlcad | egsavage: if you install g++, that error should go away, alternatively you should be able to run something like: ./configure CXXCPP=cpp |
| 21:02.43 | egsavage | hmm, i have g++ installed already |
| 21:03.03 | egsavage | odd i shouldn't be fine without that other configure option |
| 21:03.03 | brlcad | hmm indeed |
| 21:03.10 | brlcad | it should |
| 21:03.19 | brlcad | can you post the config.log file? |
| 21:03.28 | brlcad | or send it to me |
| 21:03.45 | egsavage | post where? |
| 21:04.40 | egsavage | shall i send you the file via irc or some website? |
| 21:05.11 | brlcad | whatever is convenient |
| 21:05.21 | egsavage | let me try it again though - i just installed the kernel source tree package - i saw some reference somewhere saying that could fix the issue |
| 21:05.45 | brlcad | did it work with the CXXCPP? |
| 21:05.51 | egsavage | same failure |
| 21:05.55 | brlcad | k |
| 21:06.05 | egsavage | i can try with that configure option if you want me to try |
| 21:06.08 | brlcad | at the end of the config.log file, it should have the compile test that failed |
| 21:06.22 | brlcad | ahh, yeah try with that option |
| 21:06.27 | brlcad | if you would |
| 21:07.02 | egsavage | now it says "cpp" fails sanity check |
| 21:08.19 | brlcad | which shouldn't happen :) |
| 21:08.32 | brlcad | need to see what the error is |
| 21:09.27 | brlcad | you can run: less config.log, hit shift-g which takes you to the end of the file, then hit 'b' to go back a page.. keep going back until you get to an error |
| 21:10.18 | egsavage | trying to dcc the file to you - may not work because of my firewall config though |
| 21:10.50 | brlcad | got it |
| 21:11.33 | brlcad | configure:13889: gcc -E -I/usr/X11R6/include -I/usr/local/include conftest.cc |
| 21:11.34 | brlcad | gcc: installation problem, cannot exec 'cc1plus': No such file or directory |
| 21:12.03 | egsavage | hmm |
| 21:12.16 | egsavage | i noticed in the configure log it said there is no g++ too - but there is |
| 21:12.28 | egsavage | i can invoke it on the command line (g++ that is) |
| 21:12.59 | egsavage | hmm, wait, i thought I could - now it says not found... gcc worked though |
| 21:13.37 | brlcad | still "shouldn't" need it |
| 21:13.51 | brlcad | but there's some tests external to brl-cad that expect it |
| 21:13.59 | brlcad | even though the code is C |
| 21:14.48 | egsavage | aha, got past it! ;-) |
| 21:15.10 | egsavage | for whatever reason, g++-3.4 was installed - i installed g++-4.0 with synaptic and its rolling through it now |
| 21:15.51 | egsavage | configure finished ! |
| 21:15.59 | egsavage | time for the build now |
| 21:16.58 | egsavage | make is cruising now |
| 21:28.15 | brlcad | is this a production install? :) |
| 21:28.20 | brlcad | if so.. you should add --enable-optimized |
| 21:28.55 | brlcad | otherwise raytrace performance will be about half what it should be |
| 21:30.14 | egsavage | doh! |
| 21:30.29 | brlcad | it's still fully functional |
| 21:30.30 | egsavage | i guess I should recompile? do a make clean and redo? |
| 21:30.33 | brlcad | and not a big deal |
| 21:30.42 | brlcad | but .. it will run considerably faster ;) |
| 21:30.50 | egsavage | might as well 'do it right' |
| 21:30.51 | brlcad | yeah, make clean |
| 21:31.08 | egsavage | 12 mins, 48 seconds for the make |
| 21:31.10 | egsavage | not bad |
| 21:31.36 | brlcad | not too shabby |
| 21:31.37 | egsavage | add those options to the command line or the config header file somewhere? |
| 21:31.54 | brlcad | ./configure --help |
| 21:32.11 | egsavage | k |
| 21:32.27 | brlcad | the INSTALL file also talks about the build in detail |
| 21:33.11 | egsavage | any other recommended options? |
| 21:33.18 | egsavage | i see there are plenty in the configure help |
| 21:35.41 | brlcad | nah, default is to auto-detect dependencies, so you don't need to install anything |
| 21:36.04 | egsavage | and it uses opengl by default? |
| 21:36.07 | brlcad | could turn off run-time debugging for even more performance, but if this is your first go at it, I wouldn't bother |
| 21:36.13 | brlcad | by default yet |
| 21:36.28 | brlcad | though it will look the same (wireframe) regardless of it being opengl |
| 21:36.33 | egsavage | k, hopefully i have all of the opengl libs needed |
| 21:36.59 | brlcad | if you don't it'll use the X11 interface, which looks/acts the same |
| 21:37.02 | egsavage | started the make again |
| 21:37.24 | brlcad | if this is a dual/quad processor machine, you can make in parallel |
| 21:37.35 | egsavage | i was thinking about that -j option on make |
| 21:37.47 | egsavage | but i'd like some CPU for other stuff i'm doing on the box too ;-) |
| 21:37.48 | brlcad | yeah, it'll work like a charm |
| 21:38.19 | egsavage | wow! |
| 21:38.38 | egsavage | maybe next go around if i rebuild i'll dare to crank it up |
| 21:38.47 | egsavage | 3.2ghz p4 laptop here |
| 21:39.12 | brlcad | you can ctrl-c safely, and make -j# -- it will pick up safely |
| 21:39.29 | egsavage | let me try 3 |
| 21:39.43 | egsavage | it's going |
| 21:40.31 | brlcad | it's been a while since an ubuntu compile, so there might be some minor build issue |
| 21:40.34 | brlcad | hopefully not |
| 21:40.38 | brlcad | what version are you compiling? |
| 21:40.45 | egsavage | it built last time, no errors |
| 21:40.52 | egsavage | 7.6.6 |
| 21:40.56 | brlcad | ah, right, excellent |
| 21:41.12 | egsavage | latest/greatest, although not the HEAD from CVS |
| 21:41.24 | egsavage | the tar ball from sourceforge |
| 21:43.53 | egsavage | error: |
| 21:43.55 | egsavage | gcc -DHAVE_CONFIG_H -I. -I. -I../../../include -I/usr/X11R6/include -I/usr/local/include -I../../../include -pipe -fno-strict-aliasing -fno-common -g -O3 -c jove_buf.c |
| 21:43.55 | egsavage | In file included from jove_buf.c:64: |
| 21:43.55 | egsavage | ./jove.h:256: warning: built-in function ‘exp’ declared as non-function |
| 21:43.55 | egsavage | ./jove.h:477: error: conflicting types for ‘malloc’ |
| 21:44.31 | egsavage | look familiar? |
| 21:48.55 | egsavage | been awhile since I've been hacking C (Java mostly now), but it's extern char * malloc - shouldn't it be void *? |
| 21:50.41 | brlcad | ahh yes |
| 21:50.53 | brlcad | odd that you didn't get that the first time |
| 21:51.04 | brlcad | yeah, it should be |
| 21:51.14 | brlcad | that code was written well before ansi C |
| 21:51.20 | brlcad | when it used to be char * |
| 21:51.41 | brlcad | you can --disable-jove if you want, or edit that header and remove the extern decl |
| 21:53.25 | egsavage | k, let me comment that malloc extern out |
| 21:54.01 | egsavage | moving forward past there now |
| 21:54.24 | egsavage | strange others haven't seen that issue |
| 21:54.33 | egsavage | that jove stuff has been there for sometime, right? |
| 21:55.53 | brlcad | it's been there for over 15 years ;) |
| 21:56.22 | brlcad | jove isn't always compiled though -- that's the relatively recent change |
| 21:56.30 | egsavage | never used jove myself, emacs, sure |
| 21:56.36 | egsavage | ahh, ok |
| 21:56.41 | brlcad | some compilers don't care also, though new build flags make conformance more strict |
| 21:56.56 | egsavage | am i a guinea pig? ;-) |
| 21:56.59 | brlcad | jove is "jonathan's own version of emacs" |
| 21:57.10 | egsavage | gnu or xemacs for me |
| 21:57.21 | brlcad | basically a streamlined version of emacs with the 'wrong' keybindings ;) |
| 21:57.58 | brlcad | back when the invocation of emacs took 30-60 seconds or more, jove was 'fast' |
| 21:58.20 | egsavage | for quick stuff i've used vim - not emacs, but quick |
| 21:58.26 | brlcad | no longer really an issue, but it's still shipped for historic reasons -- old users demand it ;) |
| 21:58.48 | brlcad | ever try to take someone's editor away from them? :) |
| 21:59.06 | egsavage | oh, i'm sure its not pleasant |
| 21:59.48 | brlcad | i'd be fine with it myself since it's emacs-ish enough, but the bindings are foreign |
| 22:00.03 | egsavage | show how well does brl-cad work with autocad drawings? good conversions? |
| 22:00.29 | brlcad | hmm, depends entirely on what you mean by drawings ;) |
| 22:00.45 | brlcad | for strict 2D drawings, it doesn't like them much because they're not solid geometry |
| 22:01.03 | brlcad | for 3D models in dxf, it's pretty good -- better than most converters |
| 22:01.16 | brlcad | more complaint than blender, for example |
| 22:01.21 | brlcad | compliant even |
| 22:01.31 | egsavage | i see dxf and dwg (?) files that I would like to view/edit |
| 22:02.02 | brlcad | dxf may be fine, dwg are often/usually 2d-only |
| 22:02.28 | brlcad | brl-cad mostly only cares about solid geometry |
| 22:02.30 | egsavage | i'm new to cad myself ... |
| 22:02.57 | brlcad | might as well say that patches (and new devs) are always welcome too ;) |
| 22:03.37 | egsavage | ok, i'll remember that ... can you run with that jove.h fix though? |
| 22:04.07 | egsavage | run, meaning, carry that fix through the CVS tree |
| 22:05.27 | egsavage | build is still going - optimized takes a bit more compilation time |
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| 22:17.07 | brlcad | indeed |
| 22:18.20 | egsavage | install finished... |
| 22:19.32 | egsavage | now i guess i need to do the 'hard stuff' - read the docs and figure out how to use this! ;-) |
| 22:19.34 | CIA-13 | BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/other/jove/jove.h: fix the malloc/realloc and exp decl conflicts, include stdlib.h |
| 22:19.51 | egsavage | thx brlcad for the jove fix |
| 22:20.20 | egsavage | some other externs for other *alloc(), but when in doubt and no error, leave it I guess |
| 22:20.45 | brlcad | the ealloc is jove's |
| 22:20.51 | egsavage | ok |
| 22:21.01 | CIA-13 | BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/other/jove/ (11 files): s/exp/jove_exp/ to avoid conflicting with exp() in math.h |
| 22:21.36 | egsavage | ah, i did see some warnings about that fly by too |
| 22:22.51 | egsavage | i'll have to go read that tutorial ... any quick test to see if my basic compile worked? |
| 22:22.57 | brlcad | yeah |
| 22:23.05 | brlcad | make test |
| 22:23.08 | brlcad | and make benchmark |
| 22:23.10 | egsavage | k |
| 22:23.31 | egsavage | as regular joe, not root, right? |
| 22:23.37 | brlcad | the latter will test system performance |
| 22:23.38 | brlcad | yeah |
| 22:23.57 | brlcad | root would only be required to do a make install into a system directory |
| 22:24.06 | egsavage | right, did that |
| 22:24.08 | egsavage | test is going |
| 22:24.17 | egsavage | sucking up that CPU ;-) |
| 22:24.23 | egsavage | it passed |
| 22:24.38 | egsavage | let me do the benchmark |
| 22:24.59 | brlcad | if you did an install, you can also run the 'benchmark' tool to get the benchmark suite to run |
| 22:25.44 | egsavage | oh, too late - doing it via make now |
| 22:25.55 | egsavage | this sends or runs forever? |
| 22:25.58 | brlcad | that's fine, they're the same |
| 22:26.02 | egsavage | ends i mean |
| 22:26.07 | brlcad | it ends |
| 22:26.22 | brlcad | it iterates until stable numbers are computed |
| 22:26.33 | brlcad | should take about 10 minutes |
| 22:26.42 | egsavage | moss said RIGHT |
| 22:27.01 | brlcad | you could have cut that down considerably by running the tool directly and decreasing the iteration window ;) |
| 22:27.12 | brlcad | but you'll get slightly better results with the default window |
| 22:27.18 | brlcad | there are 6 tests |
| 22:27.42 | egsavage | i noticed there are lots of executables... are these all integrated in the UI too? |
| 22:27.43 | brlcad | it raytraces various models testing the performance and behavior of the raytracer |
| 22:28.16 | brlcad | no they're unfortunately not all integrated, but maybe 1/5 or 1/4 are integrated into mged |
| 22:28.46 | egsavage | is that the one i should try after the benchmark? |
| 22:28.55 | brlcad | the new modeler integrates most all of them, but that's active development that probably wont hit hands until late summer at best |
| 22:29.07 | brlcad | yeah, mged is a good starting point |
| 22:29.10 | egsavage | k |
| 22:29.17 | brlcad | the converters are all external to mged |
| 22:29.31 | brlcad | so you would probably interact with them early as well, dxf-g for example |
| 22:29.54 | egsavage | ok |
| 22:30.01 | egsavage | on bldg391 now |
| 22:30.55 | pra5ad | hmm i use ubuntu |
| 22:31.11 | pra5ad | (reading log now) |
| 22:31.18 | egsavage | got it going on ubuntu now |
| 22:31.23 | egsavage | not that painful |
| 22:31.38 | egsavage | just make sure you have the latest g++ installed so configure can proceed |
| 22:32.42 | brlcad | i had a similar issue on a debian box a year or so ago, but the problem was worked around by setting CXXCPP (which configure now tries automatically iirc) |
| 22:33.28 | brlcad | ah, yes.. here it is |
| 22:33.29 | brlcad | # libtool's configuration check has a bug that causes a /lib/cpp |
| 22:33.29 | brlcad | # sanity check failure if a C++ compiler is not installed. This makes |
| 22:33.30 | brlcad | # the sanity test pass regardless of whether there is a c++ compiler. |
| 22:34.19 | brlcad | might be a new test added in another part of the autotools m4 sourcse that also provokes the same problem now |
| 22:34.30 | egsavage | benchmark results (for the debug build): |
| 22:34.31 | egsavage | Benchmark results indicate an approximate VGR performance metric of 1610 |
| 22:34.31 | egsavage | Logarithmic VGR metric is 3.21 (natural logarithm is 7.38) |
| 22:34.43 | brlcad | not bad at all |
| 22:34.48 | brlcad | especially for a P4 |
| 22:34.56 | brlcad | single cpu? |
| 22:34.58 | egsavage | oh, cool, good to hear ;-) |
| 22:35.13 | egsavage | p4 HT, but I haven't booted the SMP kernel yet |
| 22:35.22 | egsavage | just built it - need to boot it |
| 22:35.31 | brlcad | HT doesn't buy much |
| 22:35.36 | egsavage | yeah |
| 22:36.23 | egsavage | started mged |
| 22:37.43 | brlcad | for what it's worth, a VGR of 1 is the performance of an old VAX 11/780 supercomputer (circa 1977) |
| 22:38.08 | egsavage | i saw that in the log... |
| 22:38.15 | brlcad | which is one of the oldest machines to run brl-cad |
| 22:38.17 | egsavage | what should i try for a quick test in mged? |
| 22:38.32 | brlcad | hmm, a quick test.. |
| 22:38.42 | brlcad | did you create a new database? |
| 22:38.45 | egsavage | something to load up |
| 22:38.50 | brlcad | ah, okay |
| 22:39.06 | brlcad | there are simple example geometry databases that get installed |
| 22:39.18 | brlcad | if you installed into /usr/brlcad, they are in share/brlcad/7.6.6/db |
| 22:39.34 | brlcad | open havoc.g |
| 22:39.55 | brlcad | then 'e havoc' in the command window |
| 22:40.09 | brlcad | maybe then: rt -F/dev/Xl |
| 22:40.48 | egsavage | a nice heli appeared ;-) |
| 22:41.14 | brlcad | russian attack helicopter, relatively simple model |
| 22:41.29 | brlcad | but more detailed than most of the example .g files |
| 22:41.46 | egsavage | nice solid view too |
| 22:42.08 | egsavage | can i zoom in that rt? |
| 22:42.31 | brlcad | right/left click to zoom in/out |
| 22:43.23 | egsavage | zoom works on the wireframe, not solid |
| 22:43.26 | brlcad | there are various shift-option-control clicks as well for various options |
| 22:43.45 | brlcad | ah, you mean the window that popped up on the rt |
| 22:43.52 | brlcad | that's a raster image, raytraced |
| 22:43.57 | egsavage | ok |
| 22:44.44 | brlcad | there's means to zoom them in/out but not as a /dev/Xl window |
| 22:45.03 | egsavage | thanks for your help! seems to be working well... Time to read/learn brlcad in the tutorial... |
| 22:45.17 | egsavage | My wife just said dinner is ready so I'll be back later - thx |
| 22:45.22 | brlcad | no problem! |
| 22:45.28 | brlcad | if you have any questions, someone's usually here ;) |
| 22:45.34 | egsavage | thanks again! |
| 22:45.34 | brlcad | or will eventually answer |
| 22:59.50 | pra5ad | i had no probs compiling from head on breezy |
| 22:59.57 | pra5ad | *shrug* |
| 00:13.59 | pra5ad | hehe just found chuck on a tribes server |
| 00:32.33 | ``Erik | skeery |
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| 14:17.26 | ``Erik | blarhg |
| 14:17.36 | ``Erik | $bxp |
| 14:18.01 | ``Erik | woops, $hxp even, hehehhee |
| 16:13.31 | Twingy | http://www.cnn.com/2006/HEALTH/01/30/health.alcohol.reut/index.html |
| 16:19.55 | ``Erik | ah, that one says 2, also |
| 16:20.01 | Twingy | at amost 2 |
| 16:20.05 | Twingy | *most |
| 16:20.10 | Twingy | doesn't mean 2 |
| 16:20.38 | ``Erik | it doesn't say at most, it says "the most recent" |
| 16:20.59 | ``Erik | so drink up, bitch :D it's good for you |
| 16:21.27 | Twingy | maybe after I'm done remodeling my house |
| 16:21.40 | ``Erik | does your hoa have policy on fixing cars? |
| 16:21.43 | Twingy | I reckon its lunch time |
| 16:21.48 | Twingy | no, it doesn't |
| 16:21.57 | ``Erik | ah, mine forbids it |
| 16:21.59 | ``Erik | :/ |
| 16:22.00 | Twingy | heh |
| 16:22.05 | Twingy | your hoa sucks |
| 16:22.11 | ``Erik | indeed |
| 16:22.17 | ``Erik | too bad I'm stuck a little bit longer, heh |
| 16:23.06 | Twingy | unless you can find a bigger house with the same payments |
| 16:23.11 | Twingy | unlikely :) |
| 16:23.32 | ``Erik | or shuffle so the new mortgage pays off the car |
| 16:23.39 | Twingy | until you can swing $1900/mo, I suspect you'll be in that place for a while |
| 16:23.57 | ``Erik | 1900/mo on mortgage? um, just barely, actually, heh |
| 16:24.23 | ``Erik | with the reduced lunch and booze budget |
| 16:24.32 | Twingy | so you can afford $2800 on car and house? |
| 16:25.03 | ``Erik | yeah, barely |
| 16:25.25 | ``Erik | as in; no new couch, no new computers, ... |
| 16:25.39 | ``Erik | no more impulse buys like that fat caliper, heh |
| 16:25.44 | Twingy | I know I've got $100 comcast, $50 phone, $200 energy, $300 food, $100 gas, $150 insurance, $50 hoa |
| 16:26.15 | ``Erik | my food is lower, insurance only a tiny bit higher |
| 16:26.36 | ``Erik | actually, this month, if you combine grocerys, eating out, and booze, I hit right at 300 |
| 16:27.10 | Twingy | if my house and car were $2800, I'd need to make $3700/mo to break even |
| 16:27.15 | Twingy | after taxes |
| 16:27.36 | Twingy | with $0 to buy toys |
| 16:28.07 | archivist | I wish I could break even |
| 16:29.03 | Twingy | hmm lunch |
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| 18:51.35 | *** join/#brlcad ace9109 (n=jason@host-69-145-252-100.bln-mt.client.bresnan.net) | |
| 18:52.02 | ace9109 | Lee B. online? |
| 18:55.16 | *** join/#brlcad ace9109 (n=jason@host-69-145-252-100.bln-mt.client.bresnan.net) | |
| 18:56.17 | ``Erik | he wasn't in his office when I walked by a few minutes ago o.O |
| 18:57.00 | ace9109 | thanks |
| 19:02.23 | ace9109 | you there? |
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| 19:27.29 | CIA-13 | libIRC: 03jeffm2501 * 10libirc/examples/ (8 files in 4 dirs): the stupidest of IRC servers |
| 19:37.48 | ``Erik | O.o |
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| 23:02.38 | CIA-13 | BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/libpkg/ (tpkg.c Makefile.am): initial add of 'tpkg', an example file data transfer program. the program is written in a ttcp style, sending a file's data from a client to a server using libpkg for the network communication. |
| 23:05.42 | CIA-13 | BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/NEWS: |
| 23:05.43 | CIA-13 | BRL-CAD: new tpkg ttcp-style example application using libpkg. tpkg is an example file |
| 23:05.43 | CIA-13 | BRL-CAD: data transfer program, written in a ttcp style, sending a file's data from a |
| 23:05.43 | CIA-13 | BRL-CAD: client to a server using libpkg for the network communication. the example |
| 23:05.43 | CIA-13 | BRL-CAD: sample application is installed for developer reference. |
| 23:48.28 | CIA-13 | BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/TODO: add command line help options and manpage to 'benchmark' tool |
| 00:51.23 | CIA-13 | BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/archer/ (6 files in 4 dirs): |
| 00:51.23 | CIA-13 | BRL-CAD: to quote Bob's commit to src/archer/archer "All of archer including the |
| 00:51.23 | CIA-13 | BRL-CAD: tclscripts is assigned to u.s. government and should be under the LGPL" so add |
| 00:51.23 | CIA-13 | BRL-CAD: the boilerplate legal header and remove the survice claim. the COPYING file |
| 00:51.23 | CIA-13 | BRL-CAD: requires this as well. also add the boilerplate variables footer while we're at |
| 00:51.26 | CIA-13 | BRL-CAD: it. |
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| 01:53.38 | tegtmeye | mmm, tastes...pasty |
| 02:05.11 | CIA-13 | BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/tclscripts/mged/points.tcl: footer |
| 02:05.16 | CIA-13 | BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/tclscripts/cad_dialog.tcl: title |
| 02:06.31 | ``Erik | heh |
| 02:06.34 | CIA-13 | BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/tclscripts/rtwizard/ (21 files in 2 dirs): legal header changed from Library to Lesser to reflect current 'official' name of the license |
| 02:06.57 | ``Erik | heh, doh, apple is too smart for em |
| 02:06.57 | ``Erik | me |
| 02:08.55 | CIA-13 | BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/tclscripts/ (41 files in 5 dirs): |
| 02:08.55 | CIA-13 | BRL-CAD: to quote Bob's commit to src/archer/archer "All of archer including the |
| 02:08.55 | CIA-13 | BRL-CAD: tclscripts is assigned to u.s. government and should be under the LGPL" so add |
| 02:08.55 | CIA-13 | BRL-CAD: the boilerplate legal header. the COPYING file requires this regardless for all |
| 02:08.55 | CIA-13 | BRL-CAD: commits whether implicit or explicit. also add the boilerplate variables footer |
| 02:08.56 | CIA-13 | BRL-CAD: while we're at it. |
| 02:10.56 | CIA-13 | BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/TODO: the archer headers are now fixed, reflecting the correct legal header that bob annotated in his commit log message to src/archer/archer and as the COPYING file requires of contributions by devs. |
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| 03:21.09 | CIA-13 | BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/gtools/Makefile.am: make g_transfer a noinst program and a sample source application |
| 06:00.32 | pra5ad | rofl, gary coleman in 'postal the movie' |
| 06:00.38 | pra5ad | hi-larious |
| 06:02.18 | pra5ad | uwe boll is about to ruin the far cry and dungeon siege franchises |
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| 00:07.20 | nKf | hi |
| 00:08.04 | nKf | which c++ preprocessor should i use for compiling brlcad? |
| 00:08.59 | brlcad | hello |
| 00:09.06 | brlcad | any |
| 00:09.24 | brlcad | if you're getting a c++ preprocessor error, it usually means that a preprocessor isn' |
| 00:09.27 | brlcad | isn't installed |
| 00:09.35 | brlcad | er, that c++ isn't installed |
| 00:09.44 | brlcad | the C preprocessor should work fine as well |
| 00:10.03 | brlcad | might get away with ./configure CXXCPP=cpp |
| 00:10.31 | nKf | well, cpp is installed (3.4 and 4.0) but none of them seems to work |
| 00:10.50 | brlcad | is g++ installed? |
| 00:11.02 | brlcad | or tried the CXXCPP=cpp? |
| 00:12.01 | brlcad | need to run out, back in 2 hours.. :/ |
| 00:12.35 | nKf | g++ ? i use ubuntu.. i found no g++ package |
| 00:13.29 | nKf | in config.log i see the following message: "cannot exec cc1plus: no such file..." |
| 00:14.08 | nKf | ok, see you later or tomorrow, thanks anyway |
| 00:22.22 | nKf | strange thing, you are right... g++ is not installed... |
| 00:24.06 | nKf | now it work.. thanks a lot... byebye |
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| 18:21.00 | pier | Hi everyone |
| 18:21.33 | pier | a questin about replication and referencing |
| 18:22.41 | pier | What is the differences between the two procedures in building them? |
| 18:22.50 | pier | I mean the commands |
| 18:22.56 | pier | used |
| 18:47.23 | brlcad | which commands? or is that what you're asking? |
| 18:47.46 | brlcad | in general when you create a combination with the g or comb commands, they are simply references, not copies, of the objects |
| 18:47.53 | brlcad | cp replicates an object |
| 18:48.32 | brlcad | yet if you cp a combination, it only replicates that combination, not the objects that are referenced inside that combination |
| 18:48.55 | brlcad | there is a way to perform a "deep copy", but the command escapes me right this second |
| 18:49.03 | brlcad | and is generally discouraged ;) |
| 18:49.33 | brlcad | if you cp a primitive, it replicates that primitive just like how it replicates a combination |
| 18:52.48 | pier | as a matter of fact I created a combination |
| 18:53.01 | pier | then copied it |
| 18:53.23 | pier | and moved as a matrix in the right place |
| 18:53.41 | pier | made several cp of the same comb |
| 18:53.52 | pier | and placed them but |
| 18:54.28 | pier | when a change in a dimension called this wasn't reflected in the other objects |
| 18:54.46 | pier | perhaps I did somethig wrong |
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| 19:53.39 | pier | Sorry, my fault... it works ... perhaps had one two many |
| 20:01.42 | pier | too |
| 20:27.23 | pier | Brlcad.. the translation of the second volume is getting on |
| 20:27.28 | pier | slowly though |
| 20:28.19 | pier | I hope to be able to work on it full time as soon as I get rid of some dead lines |
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| 21:46.39 | *** join/#brlcad nelson (n=nelson@rrcs-72-43-17-50.nys.biz.rr.com) | |
| 21:47.35 | nelson | ignorant question: can I use BRL-CAD to design plastic parts and then send off to a fab shop to have them made? |
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| 23:06.07 | ``Erik | depends on the format the fabricator can take... |
| 23:19.00 | brlcad | nelson_: for the most part, it can assuming the fab shop groks one of the formats brl-cad exports |
| 23:36.12 | ``Erik | (finding out if the plastic part has the structural integrity to exist, however, is a different problem :) ) |
| 23:45.03 | nelson_ | So I should locate a fab shop first, and then ask them. Okay, will do, thanks. |
| 23:46.10 | ``Erik | yeah, I have a feeling "stl" is a common format, and brlcad exports stl files, but some places want them in a certain arrangement, so make sure to ask |
| 23:46.19 | ``Erik | (like print fabricators want them 'layered' |
| 23:46.19 | ``Erik | ) |
| 23:50.40 | *** join/#brlcad nKf (i=fKn@p54B56E76.dip.t-dialin.net) | |
| 23:51.00 | nKf | hi |
| 23:51.56 | nKf | i'm back again with new questions :) while compiling i got this error message: ../../src/libdm/.libs/libdm.so: undefined reference to `XFreeDeviceList' |
| 23:52.28 | nKf | is a library missing? what could be the problem? |
| 23:56.26 | ``Erik | X |
| 23:56.42 | ``Erik | that's an Xlib function... |
| 23:59.43 | nKf | but xlib and xlib-dev ist installed |
| 00:08.26 | nKf | it is late in germany.. good night.. bye |
| 00:59.54 | nelson_ | Before I download brlcad, can it load a .STEP file? |
| 01:02.08 | ``Erik | ".step"? |
| 01:02.19 | ``Erik | (you can take a look at http://cvs.sourceforge.net/viewcvs.py/brlcad/brlcad/src/conv/ to see some of the supported formats...) |
| 01:03.05 | ``Erik | they're mostly in the form of from-to.c |
| 01:03.50 | nelson | Oooohhhhhhhh, it has IGES. That's good. |
| 01:04.43 | nelson | STEP == Standard for the Exchange of Product Design |
| 01:04.59 | nelson | PDES == Product Data Exchange using STEP |
| 01:09.23 | nelson | I see. A STEP converter is in progress. http://www.freelists.org/archives/cad-linux-dev/05-2005/msg00000.html |
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| 01:51.28 | brlcad | there is not a step converter yet, though another guy and I were working on one about a year ago |
| 01:51.46 | brlcad | it's even more complex than supporting iges was |
| 01:51.52 | brlcad | but certainly doable |
| 01:53.39 | nelson | yes, I can see that it's complicated. :( |
| 01:56.44 | brlcad | we were able to leverage an existing parser written years ago by nist, and updated it to the latest 10303 spec |
| 01:57.00 | brlcad | but that still leaves implementing support for ap203 and/or ap214 |
| 01:57.27 | brlcad | and *then* you can start thinking about the actual conversion process of how to go to/from brl-cad and iges |
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| 02:28.47 | tegtmeye | brlcad, you around? |
| 02:29.41 | brlcad | maybe |
| 02:30.30 | tegtmeye | what are you guys putting in usr/local in the std image? (macs) |
| 02:32.45 | tegtmeye | I can't remember if I put gcc4.1 in there or if you guys did... |
| 02:34.06 | tegtmeye | I think so, I just found a pretty big bug in 4.1, and I saw it was on pinion-didn't know if anyone else was using it... |
| 02:34.15 | tegtmeye | good plan |
| 02:35.00 | tegtmeye | thanks. |
| 02:35.09 | brlcad | heh, np |
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| 18:45.00 | razz | brlcad: WARNING: BRL-CAD 7.7.0 is apparently not installed yet. |
| 18:45.00 | razz | attempt to provide package Iwidgets 7.7.0 failed: package Iwidgets 4.0.1 provided instead |
| 18:45.00 | razz | invalid command name "gui" |
| 18:45.00 | razz | MGED Aborted. |
| 18:46.16 | razz | brlcad: The error above is what I get when I attempted to run mged on windows after compilation. What I my missing? |
| 18:46.53 | razz | brlcad: I downloaded yesterday's brlcad build from cvs. |
| 19:14.57 | brlcad | razz: ah, interesting |
| 19:15.09 | brlcad | there's a manual "move files into place" step right now |
| 19:15.19 | brlcad | at least that's what I've been told not having compiled on windows yet |
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| 19:16.44 | razz | thats is true. And I have moved some files around. Also, it seems the trouble lies with the Iwidgets version |
| 19:17.17 | brlcad | that's a variable setting, sounds more like a warning |
| 19:18.42 | brlcad | the include/config_win.h should have it set to 4.0.2 |
| 19:20.04 | brlcad | it "should" be 4.0.1 |
| 19:22.05 | razz | it is set to 4.0.1 |
| 19:22.45 | razz | there is also an "invalid gui" error |
| 19:24.45 | brlcad | that's because it's not finding the tclscripts directory |
| 19:24.55 | brlcad | gui is the first command that kicks off |
| 19:25.02 | brlcad | that launches the gui |
| 19:44.53 | brlcad | razz: run mged -c and select nu for the device |
| 19:45.51 | brlcad | then run bu_brlcad_root . and bu_brlcad_data . |
| 19:45.58 | razz | I did and error message is -c option not available |
| 19:46.12 | brlcad | woah |
| 19:46.47 | brlcad | what about mged -n |
| 19:47.08 | razz | same error message |
| 19:47.18 | brlcad | is there a btclsh or bwish? |
| 19:48.09 | brlcad | if so, you can run those two commands in them also |
| 19:48.53 | brlcad | ahhhh |
| 19:48.56 | brlcad | #ifndef _WIN32 |
| 19:48.56 | brlcad | <PROTECTED> |
| 19:48.56 | brlcad | #else |
| 19:48.56 | brlcad | <PROTECTED> |
| 19:48.59 | brlcad | #endif |
| 19:49.00 | brlcad | boo hiss |
| 19:49.33 | brlcad | wonder why he did that, should be trivial to get working |
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| 21:49.02 | CIA-13 | BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/configure.ac: |
| 21:49.02 | CIA-13 | BRL-CAD: fix build issues on mac os x 10.2. there's no socklen_t type so pretend it's |
| 21:49.02 | CIA-13 | BRL-CAD: size_t. old version of autoconf doesn't do anything with the arguments to |
| 21:49.02 | CIA-13 | BRL-CAD: AC_C_BIGENDIAN, so just check the result and define NATURAL_IEEE/REVERSE_IEEE |
| 21:49.02 | CIA-13 | BRL-CAD: conditionally. |
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| 22:45.36 | nKf | hi |
| 23:00.52 | nKf | same question as yesterday: which library includes "XFreeDeviceList".. i got an error message "../../src/libdm/.libs/libdm.so: undefined reference to 'XFreeDeviceList' |
| 23:01.45 | nKf | the same with 'XListInputDevice', 'XOpenDevice', and 'XSelectExtensionEvent' |
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| 23:12.27 | brlcad | hello |
| 23:12.48 | brlcad | nKf: that's an X11 symbol, sounds ike what ``Erik said was right |
| 23:13.31 | brlcad | I forget, did you compile yourself? |
| 23:14.05 | nKf | i try it :) |
| 23:14.55 | nKf | of cause it is a x symbol? but which library? xlib (what ``Erik said) is installed |
| 23:15.32 | nKf | an the error message is "undefined reference" and not "library not found" ? |
| 23:16.08 | brlcad | it could be that your library doesn't have that symbol |
| 23:16.12 | nKf | maybe a other library version? |
| 23:16.20 | brlcad | what are you trying to run? |
| 23:16.27 | brlcad | mged? |
| 23:16.32 | nKf | make |
| 23:16.38 | brlcad | ah, make error |
| 23:16.41 | brlcad | which dir? |
| 23:16.44 | nKf | right |
| 23:17.08 | nKf | src/bwish |
| 23:17.35 | nKf | first gcc command work, but second leaves with the above error message |
| 23:17.58 | brlcad | paste the compile line? |
| 23:19.03 | nKf | ok, one moment |
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| 23:19.45 | nKf2 | /usr/bin/gcc-4.0 -pipe -fno-strict-aliasing -fno-common -g -pipe -fno-strict-aliasing -fno-common -g -o .libs/btclsh cmd.o input.o main.o tcl.o -L/usr/X11R6/lib -L/usr/local/lib ../../src/libtclcad/.libs/libtclcad.so /home/nutzer/test/brlcad-7.6.6/src/other/libtk/.libs/libtk8.4.so ../../src/librt/.libs/librt.so ../../src/libdm/.libs/libdm.so /home/nutzer/test/brlcad-7.6.6/src/librt/.libs/librt.so /home/nutzer/test/brlcad-7.6.6/src/libbn/.libs/libbn. |
| 23:20.03 | nKf | oh.. too long |
| 23:20.10 | brlcad | yeah, break up into pieces |
| 23:20.20 | brlcad | or use pastebin |
| 23:20.25 | brlcad | ~pastebin |
| 23:20.28 | ibot | pastebin is, like, a place to paste your stuff without flooding the channel - try http://pastebin.com/, or http://pastebin.ca, or http://channels.debian.net/paste |
| 23:20.58 | nKf2 | /usr/bin/gcc-4.0 -pipe -fno-strict-aliasing -fno-common -g -pipe -fno-strict-aliasing -fno-common -g -o .libs/btclsh cmd.o input.o main.o tcl.o |
| 23:21.13 | nKf2 | -L/usr/X11R6/lib -L/usr/local/lib ../../src/libtclcad/.libs/libtclcad.so /home/nutzer/test/brlcad-7.6.6/src/other/libtk/.libs/libtk8.4.so |
| 23:21.55 | nKf2 | ../../src/librt/.libs/librt.so ../../src/libdm/.libs/libdm.so /home/nutzer/test/brlcad-7.6.6/src/librt/.libs/librt.so /home/nutzer/test/brlcad-7.6.6/src/libbn/.libs/libbn.so |
| 23:22.19 | nKf2 | /home/nutzer/test/brlcad-7.6.6/src/other/libpng/.libs/libpng.so ../../src/libfb/.libs/libfb.so /home/nutzer/test/brlcad-7.6.6/src/libpkg/.libs/libpkg.so /usr/lib/libGL.so |
| 23:22.37 | nKf2 | -lXext ../../src/libbn/.libs/libbn.so /home/nutzer/test/brlcad-7.6.6/src/libbu/.libs/libbu.so ../../src/libbu/.libs/libbu.so -lc -lpthread /home/nutzer/test/brlcad-7.6.6/src/other/libtcl/.libs/libtcl8.4.so |
| 23:22.48 | nKf2 | ../../src/other/incrTcl/.libs/libitk3.3.so ../../src/other/incrTcl/.libs/libitcl3.3.so ../../src/other/libtk/.libs/libtk8.4.so |
| 23:23.00 | nKf2 | -lX11 ../../src/other/libtcl/.libs/libtcl8.4.so -ldl -lnsl /home/nutzer/test/brlcad-7.6.6/src/other/libz/.libs/libz.so -lm ../../src/libtermio/.libs/libtermio.so -Wl,--rpath -Wl,/usr/brlcad/lib |
| 23:23.17 | nKf2 | ok, i hope that was all |
| 23:23.33 | nKf2 | the error message |
| 23:23.41 | nKf2 | ../../src/libdm/.libs/libdm.so: undefined reference to `XFreeDeviceList' |
| 23:23.42 | nKf2 | ../../src/libdm/.libs/libdm.so: undefined reference to `XListInputDevices' |
| 23:23.42 | nKf2 | ../../src/libdm/.libs/libdm.so: undefined reference to `XOpenDevice' |
| 23:23.42 | nKf2 | ../../src/libdm/.libs/libdm.so: undefined reference to `XSelectExtensionEvent' |
| 23:26.26 | nKf2 | or : http://pastebin.com/536164 |
| 23:34.10 | nKf | any idea ? |
| 00:30.12 | brlcad | sorry, was distracted |
| 00:32.26 | brlcad | yeah, I'm guessing you need more than -lX11 |
| 00:32.38 | brlcad | probably -lXi |
| 00:33.03 | brlcad | nKf: which would likely be /usr/X11R6/lib/libXi.a or .so |
| 00:33.09 | brlcad | or maybe in another package |
| 00:33.13 | brlcad | that isn't installed |
| 00:33.23 | nKf | ok, i'll check it |
| 00:33.35 | brlcad | Xmu, Xext are also possibilities, but Xi would be my first guess |
| 00:34.14 | brlcad | if you run: nm /usr/X11R6/lib/libXi.a | grep XFreeDeviceList does it return anything? |
| 00:38.25 | nKf | libxmu libxext and libxi are installed, but /usr/X11R6/lib/libXi.a doesnt exists |
| 00:42.19 | nKf | ok, it's in /usr/lib |
| 00:42.48 | nKf | 00000455 T XFreeDeviceList |
| 00:45.07 | brlcad | try: make LIBS=-lxmu -lxi if that's really how they're spelled (case sensitive) |
| 00:45.21 | brlcad | er make LIBS="-lxi" for starters |
| 00:45.48 | brlcad | should be -lXi |
| 00:46.00 | brlcad | unless you really have a libxi with that case |
| 00:49.27 | nKf | hm, i have added -lXi manually to the makefile in src/bwish |
| 00:49.38 | nKf | LIBS=-lXi |
| 00:49.58 | nKf | LIBS=-lXi; make on command line doesnt work |
| 00:51.05 | brlcad | same error? |
| 00:51.25 | brlcad | libs would need to still include -lX11 and others |
| 00:51.54 | nKf | with manual entry to the makefile it works |
| 00:52.10 | brlcad | ah, good |
| 00:52.18 | nKf | but not with a definition on command line |
| 00:52.26 | brlcad | btw, "LIBS=-lXi; make" should have been "LIBS=-lXi make" |
| 00:52.42 | nKf | hm ok... |
| 00:52.46 | brlcad | though again, probably still missing other list |
| 00:52.49 | brlcad | s/list/libs |
| 00:53.11 | nKf | at the moment it is compiling |
| 00:53.16 | brlcad | you'll likely get that same error in other places |
| 00:53.20 | brlcad | like src/mged |
| 00:53.39 | nKf | right |
| 00:54.00 | nKf | but also solved with the manual entry |
| 00:54.11 | nKf | ready :) |
| 00:54.17 | brlcad | heh |
| 00:54.19 | nKf | all passed |
| 00:54.29 | brlcad | make X_LIBS="-L/usr/X11R6/lib -lX11 -lXi" might work too |
| 00:54.53 | brlcad | that'll redefine just the X_LIBS which is what all the files should be using |
| 00:56.54 | nKf | ok, installation tomorrow... it's 02:00 in the morning now - i should go to bed now :) |
| 00:57.07 | nKf | bye.. and thanks for your help... |
| 01:00.06 | brlcad | no problem |
| 01:00.12 | brlcad | good look with the build |
| 01:00.18 | brlcad | er, good luck |
| 01:19.58 | pra5ad | is this in ubuntu? |
| 01:22.55 | brlcad | yep |
| 01:45.59 | CIA-13 | BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/configure.ac: fallback to int instead of to size_t for the socklen_t check |
| 01:47.52 | CIA-13 | BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/configure.ac: check for getprogname and setprogname functions for libbu |
| 01:50.18 | CIA-13 | BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/libbu/brlcad_path.c: |
| 01:50.18 | CIA-13 | BRL-CAD: make bu_argv0() static, it shouldn't be called by programs any longer. instead, |
| 01:50.18 | CIA-13 | BRL-CAD: programs should use bu_getprogname() and bu_setprogname() to mimic the stdlib |
| 01:50.19 | CIA-13 | BRL-CAD: interface functions of similar name. if the stdlib interface routines are |
| 01:50.19 | CIA-13 | BRL-CAD: available, they'll get used. |
| 02:02.39 | CIA-13 | BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/include/bu.h: bu_argv0 was replaced with bu_setprogname and bu_getprogname rather quickly so no need to deprecate it. just remove. |
| 02:07.22 | *** join/#brlcad tegtmeye (n=tegtmeye@pool-70-17-225-27.balt.east.verizon.net) | |
| 02:08.05 | CIA-13 | BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/include/bu.h: er, bu_argv0() was declared twice. remove it. |
| 02:08.16 | *** join/#brlcad tegtmeye (n=tegtmeye@pool-70-17-225-27.balt.east.verizon.net) | |
| 02:08.24 | CIA-13 | BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/ (libbu/brlcad_path.c mged/ged.c mged/setup.c): use bu_getprogname/bu_setprogname instead of bu_argv0 |
| 02:08.49 | pra5ad | im telling u |
| 02:08.59 | pra5ad | base ubuntu 5.10 install had 0 problems |
| 02:09.13 | brlcad | and that helps him how? :) |
| 02:09.45 | pra5ad | he can install 5.10 base =) |
| 04:19.53 | pra5ad | is sourceforge down? |
| 04:32.16 | brlcad | no |
| 04:34.47 | pra5ad | hmph |
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| 06:37.18 | markrages | anyone here? |
| 06:44.49 | markrages | hi? |
| 07:00.40 | brlcad | oop |
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| 08:34.57 | brlcad | moof |
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| 14:48.21 | polyspin | It looks like socklen_t is still a problem when compiling head on OS X |
| 15:36.41 | ``Erik | O.o |
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| 16:13.03 | pra5ad_werk | brlcad |
| 16:13.18 | brlcad | pra5ad_werk: nope |
| 16:13.24 | pra5ad_werk | ( |
| 16:13.28 | pra5ad_werk | :( |
| 16:13.48 | brlcad | go do situps, see if you can pass me up :) |
| 16:15.20 | ``Erik | "hurrrrr *grunt*... uhhh, can we call that 2/3?" |
| 16:15.20 | ``Erik | :} |
| 16:27.51 | pra5ad_werk | heh |
| 16:28.11 | pra5ad_werk | since the lunch crowd is staying put, i may just do that |
| 16:31.10 | ``Erik | I kinda wanted to go to the bowling alley, but justin poopoo'd on that, he wanted to hit the drive through at booger king |
| 16:33.21 | ``Erik | "If Osama B. isn't in Afghanistan, and if he isn't dead, we believe he is in another country" - US army General ( http://qdb.us/32301 ) |
| 16:36.40 | pra5ad_werk | military intelligence |
| 16:37.01 | clock_ | what if he's on the moon? |
| 16:37.09 | clock_ | Or Mars? |
| 16:42.07 | ``Erik | ... have you been eating wall candy again? |
| 17:41.07 | CIA-13 | BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/configure.ac: look for lseek function |
| 17:44.47 | CIA-13 | BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/librt/db_io.c: lseek's use of off_t requires sys/types.h |
| 17:57.22 | CIA-13 | BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/configure.ac: improve the socklen_t check, need to look in sys/socket.h as well as sys/types.h for the type. still fallback to int. |
| 18:01.54 | pra5ad_werk | shouldnt have done cardio before the situps |
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| 21:42.18 | IngMan | hi |
| 21:43.10 | brlcad | hello |
| 21:43.11 | IngMan | it gears |
| 21:43.16 | IngMan | it gears |
| 21:43.35 | IngMan | how make it a gears ???? |
| 21:44.06 | brlcad | how to make gears, that would be the pattern tool |
| 21:44.41 | brlcad | sort of like this: http://sourceforge.net/project/screenshots.php?group_id=105292 |
| 21:44.50 | brlcad | but arbitrary gear types |
| 21:45.59 | brlcad | this is covered somewhat in vol 3 iirc |
| 21:46.08 | brlcad | the pattern tool is on the menu |
| 21:48.23 | IngMan | how I create the profile of the gear |
| 21:48.34 | *** join/#brlcad clock_ (n=clock@84-72-61-163.dclient.hispeed.ch) | |
| 21:50.00 | brlcad | eh, you don't have to create a profile, but if you wanted to, that would be a sketch/extrude object |
| 21:50.47 | brlcad | you'd use csg, make a disk, union together or subtract the grooves using the pattern tool |
| 21:51.52 | brlcad | that's two primary different techniques |
| 21:52.25 | brlcad | if you wanted to sketch a profile and extrude, that would be the sketch primitive and the sketch primitive (on the edit menu) |
| 21:52.44 | brlcad | the recommended approach, however, is to use csg operations/objects and pattern |
| 21:55.51 | IngMan | usign the csg, what primitive is a tooth of the gears |
| 21:56.16 | brlcad | depends on the type of gear |
| 21:56.39 | brlcad | if it's square edged, probably would use an arb |
| 21:56.49 | clock_ | brlcad: how do I make metric winding? |
| 21:56.55 | brlcad | if it's rounded like on that bike wheel, probably a cylinder |
| 21:57.25 | brlcad | clock_: a metric winding is what? |
| 21:57.30 | clock_ | brlcad: screw |
| 21:57.43 | brlcad | that tapers? |
| 21:58.04 | clock_ | No, ordinary winding, like on say M10x50 bolt |
| 21:58.40 | clock_ | if you have bolt and nut then there are special grooves on the bolt |
| 21:58.58 | clock_ | and the nut which hold them together and allow them to slide along slowly if you turn them many turns. |
| 21:59.04 | brlcad | picture? |
| 21:59.19 | clock_ | I want to make a cylinder with this grooves which I call winding |
| 21:59.41 | clock_ | brlcad: or thread |
| 22:00.08 | clock_ | http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Screw_thread |
| 22:00.21 | clock_ | Metric: M Profile Thread Form |
| 22:00.42 | clock_ | brlcad: how do I make a thread in brlcad? |
| 22:02.31 | IngMan | but if it is a helical gear |
| 22:03.27 | IngMan | I suppose that of the same form that |
| 22:14.55 | brlcad | threaded and helical structures can be made with torii and/or pipes |
| 22:15.25 | brlcad | it's a rather complex operation to do in csg, really need a path sweeping primitive to do it better |
| 22:15.28 | brlcad | but it can be done |
| 22:16.29 | brlcad | imagine a half-torus subtracted by two half-torii offset half the distance |
| 22:17.32 | brlcad | that gives you a curved winding segment |
| 22:17.46 | brlcad | tie them together with matchin radii on the ends and you form a thread |
| 22:18.15 | brlcad | have some models that do this, but most don't need that level of detail as it doesn't affect an analysis |
| 22:28.26 | ``Erik | O.o |
| 23:26.50 | justin_ | welp, I got me a hitch now |
| 23:32.50 | justin_ | sean, I tracked down the bug with the fused vertices |
| 23:33.20 | justin_ | it was chewing on a null vertice... didn't have time to figure out why it was null, but put in a work around which allowed me to tesselate it |
| 23:35.09 | brlcad | that's how they usually are |
| 23:44.00 | pra5ad | g-nmg related? |
| 00:01.40 | brlcad | yes |
| 01:02.24 | CIA-13 | BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/libbu/ptbl.c: cleanup, doxygenify |
| 02:18.32 | pra5ad | most excellent |
| 02:18.59 | pra5ad | perhaps this'll produce 100% conversion |
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| 03:25.26 | brlcad | 100% conversion? |
| 03:25.31 | brlcad | you mean from that fix? |
| 03:25.45 | brlcad | there are lots of cases like that known to crash.. |
| 03:26.26 | brlcad | i should probably write a script that walks all the objects in every .g in a directory, performing a g-nmg and nmg-bot hunting for crashes |
| 03:26.32 | brlcad | just to weed them all out |
| 03:26.46 | brlcad | since they are generally trivial to fix once encountered |
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| 04:38.42 | pra5ad | u do that mister morrison =) |
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| 15:31.45 | CIA-5 | BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/librt/nmg_mk.c: prevent crashing in nmg_kvu() when the vertex use structure has a null parent and/or null up pointers for whatever reason. user reported crash on the *vu->up.magic_p -- this fixes that crash. |
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| 15:39.26 | CIA-5 | BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/mged/titles.c: ws indent |
| 16:09.09 | CIA-5 | BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/mged/titles.c: prevent crashing if we're unable to print the title of an illuminated path. this fixes sf bug 1218812 reported by clock3. |
| 16:14.06 | CIA-5 | BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/NEWS: |
| 16:14.06 | CIA-5 | BRL-CAD: fixed multiply referenced object illumination bug (sf bug 1218812) where mged |
| 16:14.07 | CIA-5 | BRL-CAD: fails to properly track the muliply referenced objects causing a bad directory |
| 16:14.07 | CIA-5 | BRL-CAD: list, causing a crash. the reported crash is fixed though multiply referenced |
| 16:14.07 | CIA-5 | BRL-CAD: objects (in a single combination) are still problematic. also fixed a bug in |
| 16:14.07 | CIA-5 | BRL-CAD: the nmg code where it was crashing while freeing an nmg object. |
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| 17:32.12 | CIA-5 | BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/libfb/tcl.c: need stdlib for free(), change to libbu memory management in other places |
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| 17:41.58 | CIA-5 | BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/conv/g2asc.c: convert to libbu memory management |
| 17:48.30 | CIA-5 | BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/mged/fbserv.c: need stdlib.h for malloc/free |
| 19:17.05 | CIA-5 | BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/other/URToolkit/cnv/giftorle.c: need unistd.h for read() |
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| 19:36.24 | CIA-5 | BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/other/URToolkit/cnv/giftorle.c: calling a FILE* an fd doesn't make it one. don't try to read() it either, get the read fd from the fd file pointer |
| 19:37.15 | CIA-5 | BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/NEWS: fixed read bug in giftorle |
| 19:46.02 | CIA-5 | BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/regress/ (Makefile.am shaders.sh): output to shaders.log, not mged_shaders.log |
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| 03:16.43 | ``Erik | let's get retarded in here o.O |
| 03:55.54 | pra5ad | heh seattle got screwed over by the refs |
| 05:18.23 | brlcad | good game |
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| 15:57.19 | CIA-5 | BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/libpkg/Makefile.am: libtool apparently cannot resolve the dependency on libpkg with the library listed with a full path so provide it a local-dir dependency |
| 17:52.55 | CIA-5 | BRL-CAD: 03lbutler * 10brlcad/src/conv/dxf-g.1: reformatted page so that options are called out in a more readable fashion. |
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| 20:10.28 | CIA-5 | BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/regress/shaders.sh: output raytrace scripts using the .rt suffix convention, fix the pixdiff stderr so that it doesn't append, overwrites. fix the tr to handle multiple lines anyways. |
| 20:45.12 | CIA-5 | BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/include/rle_config.h: ws |
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| 23:16.20 | CIA-5 | BRL-CAD: 03lbutler * 10brlcad/src/conv/g-nmg.1: formatting of the options, and expounding a little to (hopefully) improve clarity. |
| 00:11.05 | CIA-5 | BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/conv/g-nmg.c: if the shader is null, prevent a crash on strtok'ing it |
| 00:12.53 | CIA-5 | BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/NEWS: prevent several g-nmg segfaults |
| 00:54.29 | CIA-5 | BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/other/libpng/pngtest.c: protect against jmpbuf define in IBM SP4 headers |
| 00:58.55 | pra5ad | brlcad, |
| 01:00.19 | brlcad | there are lots of ways to represent it |
| 01:00.39 | brlcad | could be a revolved spline curve |
| 01:00.49 | brlcad | could be a set of spline patches |
| 01:01.20 | pra5ad | what ways? brep? |
| 01:01.26 | brlcad | yes |
| 01:01.31 | pra5ad | k |
| 01:01.34 | pra5ad | and brlcad? |
| 01:01.44 | brlcad | brl-cad uses primarily implicit geometry |
| 01:02.01 | pra5ad | that's the official term? 'implicit geometry' ? |
| 01:02.07 | brlcad | where a sphere (and most of the primitives) are defined by a mathematical function |
| 01:02.46 | brlcad | and where the function is > 1, you're outside, < 1 you're inside, == 1 you're on the surface (for a unitized homogeneous space) |
| 01:03.00 | pra5ad | oh.. |
| 01:03.39 | brlcad | s/1/any constant for that matter/ |
| 01:03.51 | brlcad | heh, ibot shuttup |
| 01:04.36 | brlcad | pra5ad: it's an isosurface |
| 01:05.11 | pra5ad | will the definition of an isosurface be adequete to describe the representation? |
| 01:05.16 | brlcad | intrinsicly, implicits are more "pure" from a mathematical standpoint though there are tradeoffs and implications |
| 01:05.56 | pra5ad | what would u want from reverse tesselation then? the isosurface? |
| 01:06.23 | pra5ad | duh, of course |
| 01:06.27 | pra5ad | forget i asked =) |
| 01:06.28 | Guu` | I've never heard of i asked =), pra5ad! |
| 01:06.39 | pra5ad | o.0? |
| 01:07.30 | brlcad | this is a half-assed difference between csg and brep http://www.cadcamcenter.com/cadcam/solid_modeling.htm |
| 01:07.39 | brlcad | there are better sites |
| 01:07.49 | brlcad | but it's a quick summary |
| 01:08.55 | brlcad | example, for a sphere _primitive_, brl-cad doesn't store spline curves/patches or triangles or wire edges -- it simply stores the position and radius and denotes it as a sphere object |
| 01:10.04 | pra5ad | right |
| 01:10.20 | brlcad | so when a ray is shot against it, it performs the mathematical line-vs-sphere intersection equation which basically boils down to a simple quadratic equation like you learned in algebra |
| 01:11.13 | brlcad | for a spline brep, the computation is considerably more intense as you have to evaluate your intersection with spline patches to determine if you are inside or not, whether you hit or not, etc |
| 01:11.38 | brlcad | instead of just -b +- sqrt(b^2 - 4ac) / 2a |
| 01:12.34 | pra5ad | right |
| 01:13.41 | pra5ad | heh have u seen the brlcad wiki discussion page? |
| 01:16.27 | brlcad | oh, discussion? no |
| 01:16.53 | brlcad | ah, heh |
| 01:16.58 | brlcad | i wondered the same thing.. ;) |
| 01:17.06 | brlcad | some m1a1 fan beefed up the paragraph |
| 01:25.21 | ``Erik | all your tank are belong to my butt |
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| 01:38.10 | enginuitor | What, no RPMs? :-D |
| 01:40.17 | brlcad | heh |
| 01:41.09 | brlcad | used to make rpms, i'm sure we'll make them again here soon too |
| 01:41.19 | ``Erik | hm, thought we had one in the archive, heh |
| 01:41.21 | brlcad | just more pressing issues than fixing the rpm sripts ;) |
| 01:41.36 | ``Erik | was that back in 6? |
| 01:42.00 | ``Erik | tell wendy that my ueber-guruism is needed or something o.O heh |
| 01:42.02 | brlcad | all of the 6 releases had rpms, that's how the linux binaries were officially made |
| 01:42.17 | brlcad | old cake build system had an rpm step that was "turn key" |
| 01:42.48 | ``Erik | I put in a make target and had an rpm spec file generated from a .in |
| 01:42.53 | ``Erik | why'd you break it? |
| 01:43.06 | brlcad | pra5ad: so got that lod done yet? folks lined up asking for it ;) |
| 01:43.21 | ``Erik | I also had some of a debian build in there, too, iirc... if not, I have the make target somewhere that I can c&p |
| 01:43.24 | brlcad | i didn't break it.. I just put it into it's own file :) |
| 01:43.56 | brlcad | the spec file is still there somewhere, misc i think |
| 01:44.17 | brlcad | rpm would be trivial to revive... just a matter of priority |
| 01:44.37 | ``Erik | shut up and tell wendy that my ueber-guru-ism is needed. |
| 01:44.38 | ``Erik | :D |
| 01:45.48 | brlcad | easier to just write code and get some analyst backing your work ;) |
| 01:46.00 | ``Erik | heh |
| 01:46.07 | ``Erik | what analyst is gonna back build-system fixes? |
| 01:46.31 | brlcad | nah, that'd just be fluff for something else |
| 01:46.43 | brlcad | like the reverse tesselator! |
| 01:47.15 | ``Erik | heh, that's a nontrivial operation |
| 01:47.27 | brlcad | pra5ad: reverse tesselation would go from either surface points and/or triangles (with maybe even the presumption of inside/outside still being known) |
| 01:47.29 | enginuitor | Silly question, but which of the 435 executables in the bin/ directory starts the program? |
| 01:47.31 | enginuitor | :-D |
| 01:47.40 | brlcad | enginuitor: they all start _some_ program ;) |
| 01:47.42 | ``Erik | they all start a program |
| 01:47.48 | enginuitor | :-D |
| 01:47.53 | ``Erik | but you probably want the gui thingy, which is mged |
| 01:47.54 | brlcad | you're probably interested in the modeler if you're just getting started |
| 01:47.58 | enginuitor | yup |
| 01:48.00 | enginuitor | Thanks |
| 01:48.15 | brlcad | it requires training/learning/reading :) |
| 01:48.20 | enginuitor | ...and so it begins |
| 01:48.21 | brlcad | moderately complex |
| 01:48.28 | brlcad | there are manuals on the website |
| 01:48.46 | brlcad | suggest reading all of volume I just to get some context (it's a short 1,2-pager) |
| 01:48.50 | enginuitor | First, I must install this "libtermio.so.1" that it's complaining about |
| 01:49.00 | brlcad | then work through the tutorials in volume II "intro to mged" |
| 01:49.10 | ``Erik | export LD_LIBRARY_PATH=/path/to/brlcad/lib |
| 01:49.47 | brlcad | if it's complaining about it, probably didn't install it -- might need to install it from rpm or compile brl-cad yourself |
| 01:50.01 | enginuitor | Ah, it's working now |
| 01:50.03 | brlcad | the binary distributions need to be more religious about --enable-everything |
| 01:50.05 | ``Erik | an rpm should fail on dependancy... |
| 01:50.34 | brlcad | and the package systems should be more religious on eiter --disable-everything or --enable-everything |
| 01:50.44 | enginuitor | ``Erik: How might I go about causing that to happen automatically so that I don't have to set that path each time? |
| 01:50.44 | ``Erik | heh |
| 01:51.01 | ``Erik | you use leenwx, enginuitor? |
| 01:51.15 | enginuitor | Haven't heard of it, so I'm guessing not ;) |
| 01:51.19 | ``Erik | linux? |
| 01:51.36 | brlcad | noticed that while the itcl/itk checks in configure work now, mged/bwish doesn't properly adapt to the twisted auto_path |
| 01:51.37 | ``Erik | actually, what shell do you use... bash? |
| 01:51.44 | enginuitor | ahh |
| 01:51.48 | enginuitor | Yes, Bash |
| 01:51.54 | ``Erik | indeed, sean, I noticed that as well... libbu shits itself :( |
| 01:52.09 | ``Erik | edit .bashrc and put "export LD_LIBRARY_PATH=/path/to/brlcad/lib" in it |
| 01:52.15 | enginuitor | ok |
| 01:52.17 | ``Erik | and also, add /path/to/brlcad/bin to the PATH |
| 01:52.28 | ``Erik | and perhaps do export BRLCAD_ROOT=/path/to/brlcad |
| 01:52.32 | ``Erik | (root or home?) |
| 01:52.40 | enginuitor | /usr/local/brlcad |
| 01:53.11 | enginuitor | Ow, I can barely read the menu titles |
| 01:53.18 | enginuitor | Is it possible to change their font? |
| 01:53.26 | brlcad | yes |
| 01:53.40 | brlcad | file->preferences->font or somesuch |
| 01:55.42 | ``Erik | holy shit, that was awesome... she burned him so good |
| 01:56.44 | brlcad | ack, dont' set BRLCAD_ROOT! |
| 01:56.55 | ``Erik | not anymore? heh, woops, sorry :D |
| 01:57.12 | brlcad | only if the binary gets relocated to something other than the --prefix |
| 01:57.42 | enginuitor | Hmm... is there something in particular I must do to cause my new settings to be preserved when I exit? |
| 01:57.43 | brlcad | yeah, it took a few releases to "get it right" |
| 01:57.49 | brlcad | trying to make it die |
| 01:57.56 | enginuitor | I changed the font settings, then exited and restarted, and they had reverted |
| 01:58.06 | brlcad | for the benchmark, there are like a dozen env vars that can be set |
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| 01:58.20 | brlcad | enginuitor: hit the update .mgedrc button on the file menu |
| 01:58.24 | ``Erik | yeah, fixing DB_DIR, LOG_DIR and PIX_DIR didn't fix it for finding db, log, or pix files. |
| 01:58.25 | brlcad | after changing the settings |
| 01:58.33 | enginuitor | Ahh, thanks |
| 01:58.41 | brlcad | it's not DB_DIR, just DB=,PIX=, etc |
| 01:58.46 | ``Erik | yeah |
| 01:58.51 | ``Erik | heh, I looked at the script to find 'em |
| 01:59.03 | ``Erik | but they didn't work for some reason, something at the end failed with a "perf.sh" or something |
| 01:59.15 | ``Erik | I surspect something got broken and an old benchmark script was being left |
| 01:59.17 | brlcad | ahh, that's right -- it was a hardwired bad path search for pref.sh in one version |
| 01:59.50 | brlcad | should have just pulled a new benchmark script from a checkout -- would have worked outright |
| 02:01.19 | brlcad | should smoke the current leader |
| 02:03.18 | enginuitor | I have a "BRL-CAD Tutorial Series: Volume II – Introduction to MGED" PDF here that says it's from April 2001... is there anything more recent out? |
| 02:04.31 | brlcad | for where you're starting, that's still completely relevant |
| 02:05.01 | brlcad | some of the screenshots might be slightly different, some menus renamed/moved, but feature-wise and the tutorials should be unchanged |
| 02:05.23 | brlcad | I could regenerate the pdf and slap a 2006 on it if it'd make you happy, but the contents wouldn't change ;) |
| 02:06.44 | enginuitor | hehee, ok |
| 02:07.11 | enginuitor | Quick question... what's the command to create a new database? The tutorial only covers doing it with the mouse (yech!) :-D |
| 02:07.25 | enginuitor | "new" isn't it, apparently ;) |
| 02:09.25 | brlcad | opendb will do it on the mged command line |
| 02:09.41 | brlcad | or if you specify a filename when you invoke mged (e.g. mged foo.g) |
| 02:12.59 | enginuitor | ok, thanks |
| 02:25.40 | enginuitor | Uh-oh... my hands slipped on the keyboard, and now my model is rotating around on its own |
| 02:25.44 | enginuitor | What did I press? |
| 02:25.49 | enginuitor | ...and how do I make it stop? :) |
| 02:27.54 | enginuitor | helllllp |
| 02:34.57 | ``Erik | OMG, pull the power cord, the cpu is going into fission mode! it's gonna EEEXXXPPPLLLLOOOODDDDEEEEE |
| 02:35.02 | ``Erik | (sorry, I'll shut up and behave) |
| 02:35.27 | ``Erik | (I don't know how to fix that... I'm lost in the gui thingy) |
| 02:35.42 | ``Erik | I can't use it, I just code it :( |
| 02:41.02 | enginuitor | hehee |
| 02:41.07 | enginuitor | I exited :) |
| 02:42.04 | enginuitor | MGED looks really promising, but since this project has to be done by the 14th, I think I'll get out some paper and a pencil |
| 02:42.07 | enginuitor | :-d |
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| 03:01.57 | brlcad | press 0 to stop |
| 03:02.09 | brlcad | xX yY zZ rotate |
| 03:04.38 | enginuitor | ahh :) |
| 03:05.08 | PrezKennedy | the web 2.0 is coming and we're all doomed |
| 03:05.35 | brlcad | i should also bind esc to stop.. it's a common "uh oh" :) |
| 03:05.47 | ``Erik | man, get with the times, they're already writing about web 3.0 |
| 03:06.24 | PrezKennedy | if it sucks like version 2, the WWW will implode |
| 03:06.41 | ``Erik | why does '2.0' suck? |
| 03:07.05 | ``Erik | (and the web has sucked every since trumpet winsock came out) |
| 03:07.32 | enginuitor | Neat... are there keys that will rotate the object only when they are held down? |
| 03:07.43 | PrezKennedy | most of the sites that use the "web 2.0" buzzword are all the same |
| 03:08.00 | ``Erik | like local.google.com ? |
| 03:08.10 | PrezKennedy | like somehow i need another online calendar or portal page |
| 03:08.32 | ``Erik | ... calendars and portal pages were over-used far before ajax hit the scene |
| 03:15.24 | pra5ad | folks? dondesta? |
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| 06:05.04 | CIA-5 | BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/util/ttcp.c: OS X 10.2 doesn't have socklen_t so instead of requiring common.h, just leave it as an int and let the warnings slide for now (again?) if there are any. |
| 06:12.49 | CIA-5 | BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/ (libmultispectral/Makefile.am liboptical/Makefile.am): |
| 06:12.50 | CIA-5 | BRL-CAD: separate out libs to one-per-line, progress once again towards making the |
| 06:12.50 | CIA-5 | BRL-CAD: librtms convenience library non-static-only to avoid libtool bugs on various |
| 06:12.50 | CIA-5 | BRL-CAD: platforms. it is noted that the version of libtool that ships with mac os x |
| 06:12.50 | CIA-5 | BRL-CAD: 10.2 will not correctly function here, as it ends up adding librtms multiple |
| 06:12.52 | CIA-5 | BRL-CAD: times as a static library (regardless of -static) resulting in muliply defined |
| 06:12.54 | CIA-5 | BRL-CAD: symbol errors. |
| 06:17.27 | CIA-5 | BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/fb/fbline.c: avoid 'y1' since AIX math.h header defines a y1() |
| 06:19.57 | CIA-5 | BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/libpkg/.cvsignore: ignore tpkg |
| 06:25.36 | CIA-5 | BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/ (mged/dm-X.c libdm/dm-X.c): aix Xutil.h header uses Bool #define which is provided by Xlib.h, which Xutil.h doesn't include for you. so we need to include Xlib.h first. |
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| 06:33.17 | tazoo | users |
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| 13:56.47 | ``Erik | nyark |
| 15:58.00 | CIA-5 | BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/doc/README.MacOSX: comment on how compiling on 10.2 requires additional effort due to the busted libtool script |
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| 19:08.40 | Hex29a | anyone in here use this with CAM softwarE? |
| 19:10.47 | Hex29a | elo? |
| 19:12.50 | Hex29a | hello? |
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| 20:20.11 | pra5ad_werk | brlcad |
| 21:17.46 | ``Erik | heh, "vi ~/.emacs" |
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| 05:09.32 | brlcad | heh, pretty cool |
| 05:09.35 | brlcad | http://www.chrispaulvfx.com/ChrisPaulVFXReel2005_Big.mov |
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| 21:36.31 | CIA-5 | BRL-CAD: 03lbutler * 10brlcad/doc/html/manuals/mged/mged_cmd_index.html: better description of dbbinary based upon user feedback. |
| 23:41.13 | CIA-5 | BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/BUGS: fbed is looking for something in brlcad_data vfont path |
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| 05:30.44 | CIA-5 | BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/BUGS: query_ray can't find nirt if not installed |
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| 06:32.58 | brlcad | woot, tessellator is working |
| 06:35.32 | pra5ad | commit! |
| 06:35.44 | brlcad | heh |
| 06:36.02 | brlcad | this is mainly proof of concept |
| 06:36.28 | brlcad | everything is hard-wired right now.. but it does seem to work now |
| 06:37.57 | brlcad | this poor lil glut app can't handle it, especially with all the ogl debug dots that show where it evaluated the implicit |
| 06:41.34 | brlcad | bad thing about it is that it doesn't do well with low poly counts, so you end up with a tremendous number of polys -- begs for decimation |
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| 00:39.55 | pra5ad | anyone see the gorillaz hologram performance at the grammys? |
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| 05:35.58 | CIA-5 | BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/libtclcad/tkCanvBezier.c: smooth out the spline drawing by drawing 500 segments instead of just 50. no more chunkiness. |
| 05:38.11 | PrezKennedy | chunky bad! smooth good! |
| 05:51.22 | CIA-5 | BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/librt/g_sketch.c: clean-up, ws, etc. |
| 05:52.32 | brlcad | heh |
| 05:53.29 | CIA-5 | BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/NEWS: smoother sketch primitive spline drawing |
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| 22:00.25 | enginuitor | I'm pretty new to MGED... is there a way to create multiple individual parts, then attach them together in an assembly? |
| 22:38.52 | enginuitor | OK, forget that... more fundamental question first... |
| 22:39.26 | enginuitor | say I create a rectangular prism, then I want to edit its dimensions afterward |
| 22:39.32 | enginuitor | What's the command to do that? |
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| 01:52.48 | enginuitor | How do I edit the dimensions of a shape? |
| 01:54.28 | enginuitor | Tried "edit", "change"... |
| 01:56.26 | enginuitor | "chg"... |
| 01:56.32 | enginuitor | "e"... |
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| 03:48.11 | Twingy | enginuitor, there is a primitive editor |
| 03:48.30 | Twingy | you have to select the primitive, then a gui will let you control values |
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| 04:22.12 | cad105 | hello, is it possible to model a complex object and then computationally calculate its approximate volume with brlcad? |
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| 17:50.34 | brlcad | enginuitor: you go into solid edit mode to edit any primitive you make |
| 17:50.57 | brlcad | the edit menu is a good place to start ;) |
| 17:51.54 | enginuitor | Menu? What about the command line? :) |
| 17:51.54 | brlcad | as for "create multiple individual parts, then attach them together in an assembly" .. parts in brl-cad are called 'regions', you combine regions into higher level combinations/groups to make the equivalent of an assembly |
| 17:52.00 | enginuitor | ok |
| 17:52.47 | brlcad | the 'sed' command will go into solid edit mode on a given primitive |
| 17:52.58 | brlcad | or you can kill then, and re-'in' then |
| 17:53.17 | brlcad | depending on the primitive, there are specialized commands for certain edit operations |
| 17:54.31 | enginuitor | OK, I'm in solid edit mode now... the edges of the object turned white, and numbers appeared by the vertices |
| 17:55.23 | enginuitor | Hold on... before I bother you any more, lemme see if the tutorial covers this... |
| 17:55.25 | enginuitor | :) |
| 17:59.17 | brlcad | for basic operations, you can use the tra/sca/rot commands to translate/scale/rotate etc |
| 17:59.43 | brlcad | the tutorial mostly focuses on the gui of course though the commands are slowly covered over many tutorials |
| 18:00.42 | enginuitor | Hmm, OK, sca works for scaling the entire object, but is there a way to directly edit the dimensions? |
| 18:01.00 | enginuitor | Would it be easier just to delete it and "in" a new one? |
| 18:01.02 | brlcad | if your EDITOR environment var was set correctly, you can issue the ted command on a solid to text edit a solid's parameters as well |
| 18:03.30 | brlcad | if you just created the object, it is often easier to kill and in again -- you don't have to use 'in' interactively, up arrow will show the full sequence |
| 18:04.09 | enginuitor | ok |
| 18:04.18 | enginuitor | How do I display a shape's dimensions? |
| 18:04.23 | brlcad | l object |
| 18:05.10 | enginuitor | thanks |
| 18:05.42 | brlcad | fwiw, since you are interested in command-line commands, there are equivalent 'apply'/'accept'/'reject' commands for solid or object edit mode |
| 18:05.58 | enginuitor | ok |
| 18:06.37 | enginuitor | How do I draw all? |
| 18:06.45 | enginuitor | ...as opposed to typing a specific object name |
| 18:08.09 | brlcad | er, what do you mean by "draw all"? |
| 18:08.38 | enginuitor | Basically, I want to achieve the same effect as typing "draw ____" for each region in the database |
| 18:08.46 | enginuitor | Am I not thinking right? :) |
| 18:08.59 | brlcad | you can use globbing, but for drawing "everything" that is rarely never what you want for real models |
| 18:09.04 | enginuitor | OK |
| 18:09.08 | brlcad | at least once you have more than a few combinations |
| 18:09.13 | enginuitor | Well, I've got to go drive someone somewhere |
| 18:09.16 | enginuitor | Thanks for your help! |
| 18:09.28 | brlcad | naming conventions on your region |
| 18:09.35 | brlcad | so you can 'e *.r' |
| 18:10.17 | brlcad | cheers |
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| 19:14.08 | pra5ad | ack mom is trying to set me up with a girl ... |
| 19:14.18 | pra5ad | damn my ethnicity |
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| 19:19.02 | brlcad | woot, snow |
| 19:20.28 | pra5ad | not fun |
| 19:20.34 | pra5ad | wasted weekend |
| 19:21.11 | pra5ad | how was the ubuntu live cd? |
| 19:26.56 | brlcad | didn't have what I needed |
| 19:27.04 | brlcad | pretty splash screen though |
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| 19:50.13 | docelic | hi PrezKennedy |
| 19:50.28 | PrezKennedy | hi |
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| 23:16.49 | pra5ad | weak snow |
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| 15:57.28 | boemann | hi there |
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| 16:48.13 | learner | howdy boemann |
| 17:05.18 | boemann | hi learner |
| 17:06.14 | boemann | I have scanned irc logs and I understand brl-cad has support for nurb primitives |
| 17:06.17 | boemann | cool |
| 17:06.52 | boemann | maybe I should give brl-cad a testdrive |
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| 21:10.46 | ``Erik | heh |
| 01:16.00 | pra5ad | whoa trader joes has papadums |
| 01:16.02 | pra5ad | werd |
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| 04:17.12 | brlcad | 3heh |
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| 01:55.21 | Twingy | grizzly nailer is much better *grunt* |
| 02:56.02 | Twingy | Live is horribly gay band |
| 02:56.24 | Twingy | they should change their name to Xandir |
| 02:56.43 | Twingy | or.. Live action squirrel with big balls |
| 03:08.15 | brlcad | heh |
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| 04:08.11 | mahesh | Sean, had a question for you |
| 04:15.35 | brlcad | mahesh: fire away |
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| 04:50.32 | mahesh | Sean, you there? |
| 04:52.16 | brlcad | still here :) |
| 04:53.23 | mahesh | oh there you are |
| 04:54.00 | mahesh | had a question for you |
| 04:54.16 | brlcad | i'm always here in some form or another, best to just ask whatever question regardless :) i'll answer when you/I return |
| 04:54.29 | mahesh | ok |
| 04:55.45 | mahesh | the remote nodes after raytracing, return the application structure to the master node |
| 04:56.03 | mahesh | i am trying to do a view_pixel on that application structure |
| 04:56.25 | mahesh | but it is not showing up on the framebuffer |
| 04:57.01 | mahesh | i want to know, if the remote nodes have actually done the work (raytrace) |
| 04:57.16 | mahesh | is there a way to find out from any of the fields in that structure? |
| 04:57.26 | brlcad | a_color should be set |
| 04:57.29 | mahesh | like a_color or something? |
| 04:57.57 | mahesh | what could be the values of a_color[]? |
| 04:58.30 | brlcad | 1/1/1 if it "missed", something else otherwise |
| 04:59.34 | mahesh | ok....lemme print and check |
| 05:02.13 | brlcad | might be useful to raytrace a tiny picture like -s2 so you can test individual values |
| 05:03.05 | brlcad | fi, right-clicking the framebuffer will report the pixel value |
| 05:04.38 | mahesh | hmm...interesting. i am printing out individual values and they are all like 0.0000, 0.00000.0.39222 |
| 05:05.08 | mahesh | correction 0.00000, 0.00000, 0.003922 |
| 05:05.53 | brlcad | er, they are chars for starters :) |
| 05:06.00 | brlcad | not floats |
| 05:06.19 | mahesh | oh i tried without -s2 option |
| 05:07.54 | brlcad | and I misspoke, 0/0/1 if it misses |
| 05:08.05 | brlcad | which is what that value looks like |
| 05:08.23 | brlcad | s2 is just to set the image size to 2x2 |
| 05:08.29 | brlcad | instead of 512x512 |
| 05:08.53 | mahesh | so, there is definitely something wrong on the remote node end right? |
| 05:09.24 | brlcad | if it's not 0/0/1 on non-remote, then yeah :) |
| 05:10.07 | mahesh | well, i can see only half the image (that is work done by master node). The other half, the rmeote node should have done it |
| 05:10.28 | brlcad | should be able to turn on the ray-debug flag and see what the remote node is doing |
| 05:10.38 | brlcad | how are you setting up the application structure on the remote node? |
| 05:12.24 | mahesh | all the nodes have access to .g file |
| 05:12.31 | mahesh | all of them do rt_dirbuild |
| 05:12.53 | mahesh | then, only master does view_init |
| 05:13.21 | brlcad | they have access over nfs or you manually copy it? |
| 05:13.35 | brlcad | or program sends it maybe? |
| 05:13.47 | mahesh | as of now, i am simulating multiple nodes on single machine |
| 05:13.56 | brlcad | gotya |
| 05:14.45 | mahesh | then all of them call do_frame and inturn call do_run |
| 05:15.31 | brlcad | hmm |
| 05:15.37 | mahesh | there i call bu_distributed which is the function where nodes get chunks of pixels |
| 05:15.58 | brlcad | heh, cool |
| 05:16.06 | mahesh | and then they call mpi_worker |
| 05:16.09 | mahesh | similar to worker |
| 05:16.30 | mahesh | master node calls do_pixel |
| 05:16.37 | mahesh | other nodes return ap structure to master |
| 05:17.05 | mahesh | and master calls do_pixel on the received ap |
| 05:17.19 | mahesh | does it all make sense? |
| 05:17.25 | brlcad | yeah, i think so |
| 05:18.59 | brlcad | how are you managing the cpu resource structures? |
| 05:19.22 | mahesh | hmm....haven't touched them at all |
| 05:19.29 | brlcad | e.g. do_pixel() obtains the application structure from resource[cpu] |
| 05:20.06 | brlcad | so you would have had to copy it into resource[cpu] before do_pixel at least.. maybe earlier |
| 05:20.27 | brlcad | that would explain the black pixel "misses" |
| 05:21.32 | mahesh | remote node calls the same do_pixel function |
| 05:21.44 | mahesh | so is it not take care of |
| 05:21.48 | mahesh | may be i am missing something here |
| 05:23.03 | brlcad | as the rays are fired, the application structure is set with the details of each ray being fired |
| 05:23.31 | brlcad | that's what a_ray is in the structure |
| 05:24.56 | brlcad | so when it fires a run of pixels in do_run(), it ends up calling worker() |
| 05:25.11 | mahesh | right |
| 05:25.18 | brlcad | worker is like do_pixel(), it assumes that the application structure was stashed into resource[cpu] |
| 05:25.26 | brlcad | so that it knows where to shoot the ray |
| 05:25.33 | mahesh | oh i see |
| 05:25.42 | brlcad | it sounds like your remote nodes are actually shooting a ray successfully |
| 05:25.55 | brlcad | they are just shooting at "nothing" since they were never told in which direction |
| 05:26.03 | mahesh | oh i get it |
| 05:27.14 | mahesh | any clue what field needs to be fixed in my case? |
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| 05:27.21 | brlcad | for each pixel, a_ray is updated with the new ray direction and worker() does it's magic (calling do_pixel()) |
| 05:27.54 | brlcad | you said you have master calling view_init()? |
| 05:28.01 | mahesh | yeah |
| 05:28.16 | brlcad | what do the remote nodes do? how do they start up? |
| 05:29.15 | mahesh | at the end of do_pixel, master node does a view_pixel where as other nodes return application structure |
| 05:29.39 | brlcad | that's what the master does.. what do the remote ones do? :) |
| 05:29.40 | mahesh | in worker function, i store all these ap structures |
| 05:30.05 | mahesh | remote nodes return ap structure to worker function |
| 05:30.16 | mahesh | worker function stores them all in an array |
| 05:30.58 | mahesh | once worker function is complete, the remote node send the array of ap structures back to master |
| 05:31.51 | brlcad | heh, back up |
| 05:32.03 | brlcad | to the beginning.. before they return their ap structure |
| 05:32.10 | mahesh | ok |
| 05:32.13 | brlcad | what do they do from the beginning? |
| 05:32.41 | mahesh | shall i send you the worker.c file? |
| 05:33.06 | brlcad | eventually, but right now, just the general overview :) |
| 05:33.21 | mahesh | i thought we could both go over |
| 05:33.27 | pra5ad | my back.. |
| 05:33.28 | brlcad | ok |
| 05:34.42 | mahesh | sent |
| 05:35.21 | brlcad | in general, I believe what you're going to want to do with what you have is to have the master node send his application structure to the remote nodes (or maybe even just resource[cpu] where "cpu" is each remote node..not sure if that'll work) or maybe just the ray info |
| 05:35.44 | brlcad | and each remote node will take that ap structure or ray info and shoot the ray(s) |
| 05:36.24 | mahesh | hmm |
| 05:36.36 | brlcad | got it |
| 05:37.16 | mahesh | i can start from do_run or ? |
| 05:40.45 | brlcad | depends |
| 05:40.52 | brlcad | is this a single-processor machine? |
| 05:40.57 | mahesh | yeah |
| 05:41.23 | brlcad | and brl-cad was compiled non-parallel presumably.. |
| 05:41.39 | brlcad | i.e. your bu_distributed() in do_run() is actually getting called |
| 05:41.47 | mahesh | yeah |
| 05:45.28 | brlcad | see in do_pixel() where it calls rt_shootray(a)? |
| 05:45.51 | brlcad | that's where it fires the actual ray, passing the application structure that presumably was already filled in with the ray details |
| 05:46.14 | brlcad | do_pixel() presumes that resource[cpu] was already set to your application structure |
| 05:47.26 | brlcad | heh, yikes: struct application app[300000]; |
| 05:47.49 | mahesh | i know it is ugly :) |
| 05:48.11 | mahesh | i just wanted to get all of them working....so... |
| 05:48.45 | mahesh | so, you think resource[cpu] is not filled? |
| 05:49.00 | brlcad | not, positive |
| 05:49.11 | brlcad | actually, could simply be that application is never initialized |
| 05:49.18 | brlcad | i don't see that anywhere |
| 05:49.50 | brlcad | when rt starts, there is a global application structure that it uses/initializes |
| 05:49.58 | brlcad | the parent/master node initialized it |
| 05:49.59 | mahesh | right |
| 05:50.14 | brlcad | the parent needs to get that ap to the client to set his global |
| 05:50.29 | mahesh | where does the master initialize it? |
| 05:51.03 | brlcad | it's continually initialized as the raytrace proceeds |
| 05:51.47 | brlcad | if anything, should wait until after grid_setup() as that does initialize the ap structure |
| 05:51.58 | brlcad | which is in do_pixel .. |
| 05:52.11 | brlcad | so before bu_distributed, or inside bu_distributed |
| 05:53.02 | brlcad | yeah.. inside bu_distributed |
| 05:53.19 | brlcad | master should set ap to client, client should set his ap to what master sent |
| 05:53.55 | mahesh | before mpi_worker is called right? |
| 05:55.22 | brlcad | master sends before mpi_worker(), non-master sends ap structure back |
| 05:55.36 | brlcad | not just a_color (which would be have been ap.a_color, btw) |
| 05:55.45 | mahesh | got it |
| 05:56.17 | mahesh | but how about resource[cpu]? |
| 05:56.48 | brlcad | forget about it for now :) |
| 05:56.49 | Guu` | I've never heard of about it for now :), brlcad! |
| 05:57.00 | brlcad | you might even get it for free |
| 05:57.35 | brlcad | that makes sense now |
| 05:58.24 | brlcad | the local master has the ap structure, so his rt_shootray() is using the initialized one.. the remote nodes, however, are not so it's using them uninitialized and missing |
| 05:59.05 | brlcad | you're making great progress! :) |
| 05:59.19 | mahesh | making fun of me :) |
| 05:59.26 | brlcad | no seriously |
| 05:59.28 | brlcad | it's great |
| 05:59.46 | mahesh | thanks! |
| 05:59.54 | brlcad | you've had other stuff going on, i'm sure too |
| 06:00.02 | mahesh | yeah |
| 06:00.14 | brlcad | awesome to see code for it, and it's making sense so far |
| 06:01.20 | mahesh | once i see a full image on the screen, i will start playing with some ideas i have |
| 06:01.41 | brlcad | have you modified other files? |
| 06:01.42 | mahesh | hopefully, the code will be much more clean and robust |
| 06:01.45 | mahesh | yeah |
| 06:02.18 | mahesh | functions in view.c are called only my master |
| 06:02.23 | mahesh | i have changed that |
| 06:02.35 | mahesh | and small changes in do.c |
| 06:02.56 | mahesh | i think those are the only files i have changed (plus ofcourse main.c) |
| 06:33.04 | brlcad | well, i'm excited to hear that you've gotten it to render - keep an eye on transferring the ap structure |
| 06:33.07 | brlcad | you can "set" it once it's sent mby simply performing a struct copy |
| 06:33.26 | brlcad | or there are examples throughout the code that do the struct copy too, it's a one-liner |
| 06:34.40 | brlcad | alas, for now, I must zzz.. haven't in over 24 hours |
| 06:36.30 | mahesh | sure |
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| 11:23.18 | boemann | hi |
| 11:23.34 | boemann | what kind of widget toolkit does brlcad use? |
| 11:25.02 | boemann | and does a .deb exist? |
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| 12:00.50 | ``Erik | libtk and not that I've seen |
| 12:09.02 | boemann | ok thanks |
| 12:11.48 | ``Erik | tho someone was talking about making a deb not too long ago |
| 12:12.16 | boemann | it is listed as being worked on for the last 365 days :( |
| 12:17.07 | boemann | what is the shape of the code - i mean does it show it's age - is it object oriented? |
| 12:17.56 | boemann | mainly regarding rt and db |
| 12:19.46 | ``Erik | uh, it's C, rt is well encapsulated and kept up to date, and I kinda think it's better than most OO stuff |
| 12:20.21 | ``Erik | ancient cruft is culled on occasion, like all the k&r style is gone in favor of ansi style... o.O |
| 12:20.33 | boemann | well C doesn't mean it can't be OO ;) |
| 12:20.56 | boemann | in design that is |
| 12:20.59 | ``Erik | true, but then you leave the world of tightly defined oo, since C affords you far more flexability |
| 12:21.19 | ``Erik | the core of librt, as far as I understand, is a big honkin' struct with a couple callbacks in it |
| 12:21.37 | boemann | ok |
| 12:22.03 | boemann | how about opengl accel of the editor |
| 12:22.07 | ``Erik | but I have only a passing knowledge of those things... most of my involvement was rewriting the build system to use automake, so 99% of my job was 'does it compile?' |
| 12:22.19 | boemann | :) |
| 12:22.43 | ``Erik | yeah, it has that ability, provided the appropriate display manager is used and the X you're using has ogl all ready to go |
| 12:22.58 | boemann | good |
| 12:22.59 | ``Erik | heh, it might even still support irisgl, too :D |
| 12:23.12 | boemann | :) |
| 12:23.31 | boemann | i did some iris gl once |
| 12:25.52 | boemann | I'm considering joining in - though I'm not sure I wouldn't rather start from scratch with C++ |
| 12:26.39 | boemann | perhaps only make a C++ wrapper for the brl core |
| 12:26.53 | boemann | and then make my own editor |
| 12:28.33 | boemann | does brl support concurrent development from different workstations? |
| 12:29.09 | boemann | not development but work |
| 12:33.52 | ``Erik | um, multiple participants having the .g file open, you mean? |
| 12:34.48 | ``Erik | I BELIEVE the current technique for having several people working on the same model at the same time involves having the model broken into several pieces, the people work on their own piece, then they glue the pieces together at the end into the final output file |
| 12:35.03 | ``Erik | but I could be way off base with that, best to talk to brlcad when he wakes up |
| 12:40.18 | boemann | where do the majority of developers live? |
| 12:40.51 | ``Erik | uhm, maryland, usa, I'd imagine |
| 12:41.05 | ``Erik | but there are listed developers and many contributors all over the world o.O |
| 12:41.22 | ``Erik | iirc, there's been a recent surge of activity from someone in italy o.O |
| 12:42.10 | ``Erik | but I think most developers work for arl, formerly known as brl... :) |
| 12:43.11 | boemann | so there is real work going on |
| 12:43.33 | ``Erik | yeah |
| 12:43.38 | ``Erik | well |
| 12:43.49 | ``Erik | sean is supposed to be working on it... (he goes by brlcad here...) |
| 12:44.02 | boemann | nice to know - i don't want to involve myself in something dead |
| 12:44.21 | ``Erik | lee does stuff on occasion, and when I get the excuse/time, I make some fixes for the bsd's |
| 12:45.25 | ``Erik | I have to go to work, I'll be back in an hour if you have more questions... later :) |
| 12:45.37 | boemann | ok bye |
| 12:45.44 | boemann | i wont be here |
| 12:46.14 | boemann | thanks for all the help |
| 12:46.24 | *** part/#brlcad boemann (n=cbr@213.237.55.84.adsl.nivaa.worldonline.dk) | |
| 18:01.00 | *** join/#brlcad clock_ (n=clock@84-72-62-232.dclient.hispeed.ch) | |
| 18:01.35 | CIA-5 | BRL-CAD: 03bob1961 * 10brlcad/src/tclscripts/swidgets/scripts/tree.itk: Check-in for Doug Howard. Added a -sortmode option. |
| 18:02.12 | clock_ | brlcad: hi, I learnt riding buttonlift today :) |
| 18:19.20 | brlcad | ~buttonlift |
| 18:19.46 | brlcad | ah, heh, neat |
| 18:26.42 | ``Erik | skiing? |
| 18:47.22 | clock_ | ``Erik: snowboarding |
| 18:47.38 | clock_ | brlcad: I completed it 11 times! :) |
| 18:50.29 | clock_ | brlcad: are you going bodybuilding? |
| 18:50.57 | brlcad | working on it |
| 18:51.05 | brlcad | competition in a couple weeks |
| 18:51.47 | clock_ | brlcad: eee? Can I see your pictures? |
| 18:51.56 | brlcad | heh, I don't have any pics |
| 18:52.25 | clock_ | brlcad: what kind of competition? |
| 18:52.26 | brlcad | i'd need to trim down some more for pics |
| 18:52.35 | brlcad | lifting competition, bench |
| 18:52.54 | clock_ | brlcad: hey this is interesting. Those projects whose authors do sports tend to not have problems understanding their users |
| 18:53.20 | brlcad | heh |
| 18:53.39 | clock_ | like OpenBSD is cool they have good user manual, funny cartoons, first fixing bugs and only then doing features, caring about security, and Theo de Raadt is said to be always in the mountains :) |
| 18:54.02 | clock_ | brlcad: is it possible that iron turns into wood because of cosmic rays bombarding the atomic kernels inside? |
| 18:54.06 | ``Erik | theo's also a major asshole :D but on occasion, he's not TOTALLY full of shit... |
| 18:54.11 | ``Erik | at least, that's what I've heard |
| 18:54.40 | brlcad | i'm going to have to trim back on the lifting though, going to join the rowing team |
| 18:54.51 | clock_ | brlcad: I started with iron dumbell 10kg and it started feeling like wooden so I had to add some plates so now it reads 12.5kg but soon I got the same syndrome again |
| 18:54.59 | ``Erik | what rowing team? |
| 18:55.06 | clock_ | ``Erik: what does major asshole mean? |
| 18:55.09 | brlcad | baltimore has a team |
| 18:55.21 | ``Erik | funky |
| 18:55.28 | clock_ | actually what does asshole mean? I know it's the hole into the rectum but can't imagine which personality traits it's supposed to imply. |
| 18:55.41 | ``Erik | clock: an unpleasant person... |
| 18:55.51 | brlcad | clock_: what's your native language? :) |
| 18:55.58 | clock_ | brlcad: czech |
| 18:56.05 | clock_ | hehe :) |
| 18:56.16 | clock_ | brlcad: is it national competition where youre going? |
| 18:56.35 | ``Erik | translation table? o.O |
| 18:56.46 | brlcad | clock_: maybe that he's a "hovnohlava"? :) |
| 18:57.15 | brlcad | usually implies a bit of pretencious impatience |
| 18:57.50 | brlcad | ``Erik: multilingual swear list filtering system I wrote for bz has several dozen languages, swears and insults out the wazoo |
| 18:58.15 | clock_ | brlcad: hovnohlava doesn't mean anything in czech |
| 18:58.48 | clock_ | brlcad: we say "prijemnej jak osina v prdeli" - as pleasant as an wan in the ass |
| 18:58.53 | clock_ | wan -> awn |
| 18:59.20 | brlcad | clock_: maybe you could update my czech section then :) |
| 18:59.24 | brlcad | http://cvs.sourceforge.net/viewcvs.py/bzflag/bzflag/misc/multilingualSwearList.txt?rev=HEAD |
| 18:59.37 | ``Erik | what about "pretentious arrogant bastard"? |
| 18:59.50 | clock_ | ``Erik: pretentious means that he's pretending things? |
| 18:59.59 | brlcad | can fill it in with whatever swear words you can think of :) .. but has to be not just rude but blatently insulting |
| 19:00.36 | ``Erik | http://m-w.com/dictionary/pretentious |
| 19:00.41 | clock_ | brlcad: what kind of competition are you engaging in? Are you a serious bodybuilder? |
| 19:00.55 | clock_ | brlcad: trim down == make the muscles more cut? |
| 19:01.03 | ``Erik | http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=asshole |
| 19:01.39 | clock_ | pretentive impatient unpleasant person that's exactly me :) |
| 19:01.41 | ``Erik | hehehe, #2 :D do you know a jenna tools, sean? |
| 19:02.06 | clock_ | No, I won't update the filtering list, because that way I would work against myself ;-) |
| 19:02.25 | clock_ | but I am getting better in getting rid of these personality traits |
| 19:02.48 | clock_ | and I am erasing them in the brain and filling the gained space with skills like snowboarding and skateboarding ;-) |
| 19:03.17 | ``Erik | and running into trees and rocks and stuff are helping to knock them clean out of your skull? ;) *duck* |
| 19:03.46 | clock_ | ``Erik: I smashed my head once when they didn't have a helmet available in the renting - after that I bought my own helmet :) |
| 19:03.47 | ``Erik | adolph hitler is a swear? |
| 19:04.15 | clock_ | ``Erik: adolph hilter isn't anymore, he's dead |
| 19:04.23 | ``Erik | "bigbooty"? ... O.o |
| 19:04.43 | ``Erik | hey, what's wrong with buttface? |
| 19:04.44 | ``Erik | hehehe |
| 19:04.46 | clock_ | ``Erik: hey I saw shaun white |
| 19:05.24 | clock_ | ``Erik: what are you doing there in the USA so that you have so cute snowboarders? |
| 19:05.41 | ``Erik | they drink milk |
| 19:05.48 | ``Erik | it does a body good o.O |
| 19:06.41 | ``Erik | let us know how those tits fill out. |
| 19:06.57 | brlcad | jenna tools? |
| 19:06.59 | brlcad | nope |
| 19:07.31 | brlcad | clock_: trim down means get rid of some of my fat ;) |
| 19:08.10 | clock_ | brlcad: some news on brlcad? An integrated "warhead" command with syntax warhead <x> <y> <z> <yield> <length> that makes nuclear warhead design macro? |
| 19:08.19 | brlcad | clock_: aww, updating that list could be your contribution to the "clean" servers that try to impose their morality on other players :) |
| 19:08.33 | brlcad | that'd be just a few lines of tcl :) |
| 19:09.09 | clock_ | brlcad: how are you trimming down? Eating lots of little meals? |
| 19:09.26 | brlcad | drinking less beer |
| 19:09.32 | clock_ | hehe :) |
| 19:09.38 | brlcad | :) |
| 19:09.45 | clock_ | so it is probably not a world bodybuilding championship :) |
| 19:09.49 | brlcad | though today was a regression |
| 19:10.05 | brlcad | nah, not a major event, local event |
| 19:10.15 | brlcad | have to start somewhere |
| 19:11.14 | brlcad | ``Erik: surprisingly enough, that name is often more inciteful than most swears on some game servers |
| 19:11.36 | brlcad | some of the words in the massive english section could be removed |
| 19:12.02 | brlcad | the list was compiled from lots of sources and cleaned up |
| 19:12.54 | ``Erik | amusing reading :) |
| 20:23.41 | CIA-5 | BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/mged/titles.c: mild sanity check, even if the directory pointer is valid, make sure the name is too before printfing |
| 20:24.32 | clock_ | "mild sanity" that's a beautiful term ;-) |
| 20:28.48 | CIA-5 | BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/mged/ged.c: don't attempt to call do_titles() with an overlay_vls that hasn't been initialized. this 'also' fixes sf bug 1326045 that was fixed by another edit as well |
| 20:30.40 | brlcad | heh |
| 20:31.02 | clock_ | bug 1326045? |
| 20:31.25 | brlcad | yes? |
| 20:31.32 | brlcad | sf bug tracker ids |
| 20:31.48 | clock_ | if the price of brlcad was increased 1 dollar for every bug fixed then I am already a millionaire! :) |
| 20:31.49 | brlcad | your bug submission :) |
| 20:32.31 | clock_ | brlcad: my muscles get bigger from lifting weight, cannot this indicate some disease? :) |
| 20:34.13 | brlcad | a healty disease ;) |
| 20:34.53 | clock_ | brlcad: lifting weights and then going in front of a mirror is the cheapest way to get gay porn :) |
| 20:35.41 | brlcad | heh, I've never quite heard it put that way before |
| 20:35.49 | brlcad | self-indulgence |
| 20:35.51 | clock_ | or like the one with a god: |
| 20:36.04 | clock_ | can a bodybuilder's biceps grow so big that he cannot carry it anymore? |
| 20:36.24 | brlcad | probably :) |
| 20:37.11 | clock_ | brlcad: on Sunday I exceeded the critical mass of sport from which there is no return back ;-) |
| 20:37.51 | clock_ | brlcad: it's like a drug when I don't feel delayed onset muscle soreness my hands shake and I am nervous and I have to go doing some sport |
| 20:38.48 | brlcad | how about this: http://www.t-nation.com/findArticle.do?article=211hate |
| 20:41.02 | clock_ | brlcad: what's synthol? car brake fluid? |
| 20:42.52 | brlcad | steroid, i think |
| 20:47.55 | ``Erik | hah |
| 20:48.26 | clock_ | brlcad: that's 100% great :) |
| 20:50.19 | ``Erik | "posing oil" o.O |
| 20:50.57 | ``Erik | nasty, it's an oil compound that settles between muscle fibers, increasing size (but not strength) |
| 20:58.49 | clock_ | brlcad: are you bodybuilding to attract women or do you already have a wife? |
| 20:59.30 | clock_ | I wonder how the guy can bend his arms despite those basketballs |
| 20:59.40 | clock_ | it's like boobs on the wrong place |
| 21:00.47 | brlcad | clock_: I just workout to feel good, I enjoy it |
| 21:04.43 | clock_ | brlcad = mental workout ;-) |
| 21:04.49 | clock_ | brlcad: does your brain gain inches? :) |
| 21:06.49 | brlcad | i read research papers in my spare time, but I think my head leaks .. can't remember ;) |
| 21:11.25 | ``Erik | you have spare time? how'd you pull that one off? |
| 21:13.46 | brlcad | during commercials between episodes of stargate and bsg |
| 21:14.57 | ``Erik | heh |
| 21:22.03 | clock_ | brlcad: put your muscle photo on brlcad page with label "these muscles are very solidly modelled" |
| 21:24.30 | brlcad | heh |
| 22:38.15 | *** join/#brlcad cad790 (n=3b5c60d0@bz.bzflag.bz) | |
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| 23:54.20 | ``Erik | hrm |
| 00:55.54 | Twingy | indeed |
| 01:29.47 | ``Erik | hah |
| 01:30.07 | ``Erik | daily show is showing 60's hunting safety videos as a moment of zen... celebrating cheneys recent ... incident. |
| 03:10.28 | pra5ad | heh |
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| 21:47.25 | whitehawk | hi |
| 21:48.01 | docelic | hi |
| 21:48.12 | whitehawk | I just found brlca, tried to compile it.. |
| 21:48.27 | whitehawk | In file included from jove_buf.c:64: |
| 21:48.28 | whitehawk | ./jove.h:256: warning: built-in function 'exp' declared as non-function |
| 21:48.28 | whitehawk | ./jove.h:477: error: conflicting types for 'malloc' |
| 21:48.30 | whitehawk | got this.. |
| 21:49.19 | whitehawk | and then after some all-recursive notes compiling failed |
| 21:49.46 | docelic | ok the first thing is a warning so it doesn't matter |
| 21:50.12 | whitehawk | yes I know |
| 21:50.34 | docelic | the malloc thing is an error. You need to look up how is malloc declaration line in jove.h, line 477, different from malloc definition in your /usr/include/malloc.h |
| 21:51.48 | docelic | (Not that I use brlcad, but this is generic troubleshooting method). |
| 21:52.09 | whitehawk | this is in jove.h: *malloc(), |
| 21:52.52 | docelic | what platform and compiler ? |
| 21:54.27 | whitehawk | linux gcc-3.4.5, glibc-2.3.6-r2, 2.6.14-ck6-2 x86_64 |
| 21:54.35 | docelic | If I got the context right, try replacing *malloc() to be *malloc(size_t) |
| 21:56.07 | whitehawk | npoe |
| 21:56.33 | whitehawk | nope |
| 21:56.38 | docelic | can you give me 2 lines before and after 477 ? |
| 21:57.26 | whitehawk | <PROTECTED> |
| 21:57.26 | whitehawk | <PROTECTED> |
| 21:57.26 | whitehawk | <PROTECTED> |
| 21:57.26 | whitehawk | <PROTECTED> |
| 21:57.26 | whitehawk | <PROTECTED> |
| 21:57.43 | docelic | ah, yeah, that wasn't it then.. |
| 21:58.19 | docelic | does it tell you where is the previous definition of malloc that conflicts ? |
| 22:08.28 | brlcad | howdy |
| 22:08.38 | brlcad | whitehawk: that was fixed in the latest cvs |
| 22:10.42 | brlcad | the fix is easy, just remove the malloc line there |
| 22:11.01 | brlcad | or disable jove, you don't need it if you've never used it |
| 22:12.02 | docelic | ah, hi brlcad :) |
| 22:13.49 | brlcad | docelic: you had the right fix, but it needed to return void* too ;) |
| 22:14.12 | brlcad | i believe the old jove code is using the old char* return format |
| 22:17.52 | CIA-5 | BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/TODO: geometry viewing commands/visualizations of exploded levels. mulled over this years ago, but davisson revitalized some interest/discussion. |
| 22:21.07 | whitehawk | brlcad what is jove? I'm totally new to brl cad |
| 22:21.30 | brlcad | it's a streamlined version of emacs, for back in the day when not every machine had an editor installed |
| 22:21.39 | brlcad | "jonathan's own version of emacs" |
| 22:22.10 | docelic | Yeah. It's also available as a standalone package in your distribution, so you can disable it |
| 22:22.48 | whitehawk | what is the prodesktop plugin? |
| 22:23.08 | brlcad | it's in the src/other directory, which is filled with optional stuff that is just provided for provenience |
| 22:23.40 | brlcad | i presume you mean the protoolkit pro-engineer plugin |
| 22:23.49 | brlcad | it's a plugin for pro/e |
| 22:24.06 | brlcad | lets you export directly to brl-cad format from inside of pro-engineer |
| 22:24.53 | whitehawk | can I import from proe inside of brlcad? |
| 22:25.56 | brlcad | proe is a closed proprietary format |
| 22:26.20 | brlcad | we'd have to pay 10k seat or somesuch and only distribute binaries |
| 22:26.26 | brlcad | not very practical |
| 22:26.46 | brlcad | there are a variety of formats that you can export from within proe that brl-cad will read |
| 22:26.58 | brlcad | like stl, vrml, iges, .. |
| 22:27.30 | whitehawk | iges as I remember we used that in cosmos geostar |
| 22:29.58 | *** join/#brlcad rhys (n=rhys@135.241-7-195.ippool.ndo.com) | |
| 22:31.30 | *** part/#brlcad rhys (n=rhys@135.241-7-195.ippool.ndo.com) | |
| 22:32.54 | *** join/#brlcad fotter (n=fotter@135.241-7-195.ippool.ndo.com) | |
| 22:33.02 | brlcad | howdy fotter |
| 22:33.12 | fotter | hi there |
| 22:33.55 | fotter | i wonder if anyone can help (i'm also new to irc as well...) as i'm having a problem with rt... |
| 22:34.19 | brlcad | no problem, someone usually can ;) |
| 22:35.11 | fotter | sorry to dive straight in :-) |
| 22:35.26 | brlcad | that's the irc way ;) |
| 22:35.50 | fotter | i'm in the raytrace control panel, and when i hit 'fbclear' i get an error: |
| 22:35.56 | brlcad | just often won't get an immediate answer, have to hang around until someone is available to respond |
| 22:36.23 | fotter | Rt Error: couldn't execute "fbclear": invalid argument |
| 22:36.39 | brlcad | hmm |
| 22:36.40 | fotter | ah ok, no probs, just happy whenever! |
| 22:36.50 | fotter | googled etc, but couldn't find anything |
| 22:37.09 | brlcad | 1) what version are you running and 2) did you set your path? |
| 22:37.33 | fotter | 2) yes, my execute path includes /usr/brlcad/bin |
| 22:38.07 | brlcad | ls -la /usr/brlcad/bin/fbclear |
| 22:38.32 | fotter | -rwxr-xr-x 1 root root 14973 2006-02-15 17:48 /usr/brlcad/bin/fbclear |
| 22:38.43 | brlcad | looks good |
| 22:38.50 | brlcad | /usr/brlcad/bin/fbclear -F/dev/X |
| 22:38.57 | brlcad | should flash a window |
| 22:39.02 | fotter | it did |
| 22:39.34 | brlcad | so then.. 1)? |
| 22:39.45 | fotter | 1) i downloaded the latest version today and compiled, 7.6.6 |
| 22:40.45 | fotter | on ubuntu 5.10 |
| 22:41.01 | brlcad | did you raytrace first? |
| 22:41.04 | fotter | yes |
| 22:41.09 | fotter | i have a nice sphere :-) |
| 22:41.18 | brlcad | type fbclear into the command window |
| 22:42.07 | fotter | Error: invalid command name "fbclear" |
| 22:43.29 | brlcad | hmm |
| 22:43.50 | fotter | other commands work from the command window - i created the sphere from there, and typing 'rt' in the command window also works |
| 22:43.50 | brlcad | er, do_fbclear id_0 |
| 22:44.13 | brlcad | same error? |
| 22:44.35 | fotter | ah right, yes, it gives Rt Error: couldn't execute "fbclear": invalid argument |
| 22:44.46 | brlcad | mkay |
| 22:44.50 | brlcad | puts $env(PATH) |
| 22:46.10 | brlcad | (in the command window) |
| 22:47.19 | fotter | Error: can't read "env(PATH)": no such variable |
| 22:47.56 | brlcad | aha |
| 22:48.35 | fotter | Tcl is something i know nothing about - shed some light please! |
| 22:48.37 | brlcad | set env(PATH) /usr/bin:/bin:/usr/sbin:/sbin:/usr/X11R6/bin:/usr/brlcad/bin |
| 22:48.48 | brlcad | try that, then click fbclear again |
| 22:49.40 | fotter | thank you!! |
| 22:49.52 | brlcad | well, that's only a half-fix then :) |
| 22:49.57 | brlcad | that fixed it for this run of mged |
| 22:50.10 | brlcad | the path isn't getting set correctly |
| 22:50.23 | brlcad | in the tcl interpreter |
| 22:50.50 | brlcad | which is a relatively recent change .. ubuntu seems to be the one that hits this problem |
| 22:50.51 | fotter | ah ok cool. understood. |
| 22:51.18 | brlcad | if you want to change sources so that it works, since you compiled .. |
| 22:51.25 | fotter | no probs |
| 22:51.29 | brlcad | you can edit src/mged/setup.c and search for |
| 22:51.38 | brlcad | HAVE_GETENV |
| 22:52.04 | fotter | am there |
| 22:52.05 | brlcad | there's a line a few lines after with a "{", make that "if (0) {" and recompile and you should be golden |
| 22:52.27 | fotter | so replace binpath with 0 |
| 22:52.35 | brlcad | no |
| 22:52.46 | fotter | right, ok. in wrong place maybe |
| 22:52.51 | brlcad | up a few more lines |
| 22:53.02 | brlcad | right after the comment |
| 22:53.56 | brlcad | <PROTECTED> |
| 22:53.59 | brlcad | <PROTECTED> |
| 22:54.02 | brlcad | <PROTECTED> |
| 22:54.05 | brlcad | <PROTECTED> |
| 22:54.05 | brlcad | that "{" |
| 22:54.22 | fotter | ah |
| 22:54.23 | fotter | ok |
| 22:54.25 | brlcad | change to be: if (0) { |
| 22:54.31 | fotter | right got you |
| 22:54.34 | brlcad | basically disabling that section |
| 22:55.12 | brlcad | that's a convenience for the plethora that don't seem to know how to set their path |
| 22:55.35 | brlcad | yet there's some peculiar tcl book keeping that isn't getting updated correctly |
| 22:56.29 | brlcad | did you get a message when you run mged saying "unable to modify PATH" by chance? |
| 22:57.01 | fotter | before correcting the error? haven't recompiled yet, so will check |
| 22:57.37 | fotter | no errors written to the terminal, just the 'Initializing and backgrounding, please wait...Done' |
| 22:57.49 | fotter | and then up pops mged |
| 22:57.56 | brlcad | mkay |
| 23:02.28 | fotter | if there are any other checks/help i can give i'm more than happy... just finishing compiling the new mged :-) |
| 23:02.52 | fotter | so probably not the best time for help if i now have a working version though... |
| 23:03.30 | brlcad | oh, there is lots, I'd love to trace down why PATH doesn't get set ;) |
| 23:04.05 | brlcad | make sure that works first, though :) |
| 23:06.49 | ``Erik | O.o |
| 23:06.50 | fotter | will do :-) just typed 'make install', although i guess i could have just copied across the mged binary? |
| 23:07.03 | fotter | but anyway, it works perfectly. thank you! |
| 23:07.11 | brlcad | good to know |
| 23:07.15 | brlcad | care to try one more edit? |
| 23:07.21 | fotter | no probs |
| 23:07.35 | brlcad | change that same line to if (1) { |
| 23:08.10 | brlcad | and add this right before the "# ifdef HAVE_PUTENV" line below |
| 23:08.34 | fotter | ok |
| 23:08.34 | brlcad | <PROTECTED> |
| 23:08.34 | brlcad | <PROTECTED> |
| 23:08.35 | brlcad | <PROTECTED> |
| 23:08.53 | brlcad | those three lines right before the HAVE_PUTENV line |
| 23:09.15 | brlcad | then if you compile and make install, it should report two lines when you run mged.. and hopefully still work |
| 23:09.17 | fotter | ok they're in |
| 23:10.12 | fotter | just waiting for it to compile |
| 23:16.00 | fotter | OLD_PATH = /usr/local/bin:/usr/local/sbin:/sbin:/usr/sbin:/bin:/usr/bin:/usr/bin/X11:/usr/games:/usr/brlcad/bin |
| 23:16.00 | fotter | NEW_PATH = PATH=/usr/local/bin:/usr/local/sbin:/sbin:/usr/sbin:/bin:/usr/bin:/usr/bin/X11:/usr/games:/usr/brlcad/bin:/usr/brlcad/bin |
| 23:16.17 | brlcad | woah |
| 23:16.27 | fotter | but it has failed to load... |
| 23:17.03 | brlcad | failed to load? |
| 23:17.26 | fotter | it's just written 'Detached' to the terminal and quit, given the terminal back to me |
| 23:18.56 | brlcad | run mged with the -c option |
| 23:19.30 | fotter | <PROTECTED> |
| 23:19.30 | fotter | BRL-CAD Release 7.6.6 Geometry Editor (MGED) |
| 23:19.31 | fotter | <PROTECTED> |
| 23:19.31 | fotter | <PROTECTED> |
| 23:19.34 | fotter | the paths above |
| 23:19.37 | fotter | and then |
| 23:19.41 | fotter | Segmentation fault |
| 23:20.14 | brlcad | a segfault?.. hrmph |
| 23:20.26 | brlcad | gdb --args mged -c |
| 23:20.38 | fotter | ok |
| 23:20.41 | brlcad | run |
| 23:20.53 | fotter | Program received signal SIGSEGV, Segmentation fault. |
| 23:20.53 | fotter | [Switching to Thread -1218259264 (LWP 16628)] |
| 23:20.53 | fotter | 0xb794fee7 in Tcl_ExternalToUtfDString (encoding=0x0, |
| 23:20.53 | fotter | <PROTECTED> |
| 23:20.53 | fotter | <PROTECTED> |
| 23:20.55 | fotter | 811 srcLen = (*encodingPtr->lengthProc)(src); |
| 23:21.04 | brlcad | type: bt |
| 23:21.13 | fotter | #0 0xb794fee7 in Tcl_ExternalToUtfDString (encoding=0x0, |
| 23:21.14 | fotter | <PROTECTED> |
| 23:21.14 | fotter | <PROTECTED> |
| 23:21.14 | fotter | #1 0xb7952b51 in Tcl_PutEnv ( |
| 23:21.14 | fotter | <PROTECTED> |
| 23:21.18 | fotter | <PROTECTED> |
| 23:21.18 | fotter | #2 0x0810bcb0 in mged_setup () at setup.c:85 |
| 23:21.20 | fotter | #3 0x080e1b4a in main (argc=1, argv=0xbfd46c48) at ged.c:513 |
| 23:23.23 | brlcad | ah |
| 23:25.09 | fotter | ok... (over my head) |
| 23:25.50 | brlcad | can't make that Tcl call without an interpreter, which hasn't been created/initialized yet |
| 23:26.57 | brlcad | http://ftp.brlcad.org/tmp/setup.c |
| 23:27.09 | brlcad | save that file in src/mged |
| 23:27.18 | brlcad | curl -O http://ftp.brlcad.org/tmp/setup.c |
| 23:27.31 | fotter | ok |
| 23:28.46 | fotter | and compile...? |
| 23:28.56 | brlcad | yeah |
| 23:34.09 | brlcad | how goes it? |
| 23:35.08 | fotter | just installed... am about to run |
| 23:35.32 | fotter | can't read "env(PATH)": no such variable |
| 23:35.32 | fotter | MGED Aborted. |
| 23:35.53 | brlcad | picked |
| 23:36.14 | brlcad | alright, I'll have to dig deeper into what Tcl is doing |
| 23:36.25 | brlcad | thanks anyways for your help |
| 23:36.41 | brlcad | oh, which Tcl are you using? |
| 23:36.48 | brlcad | ldd /usr/brlcad/bin/mged |
| 23:37.08 | fotter | ldd /usr/brlcad/bin/mged |
| 23:37.08 | fotter | <PROTECTED> |
| 23:37.08 | fotter | <PROTECTED> |
| 23:37.08 | fotter | <PROTECTED> |
| 23:37.08 | fotter | <PROTECTED> |
| 23:37.08 | fotter | <PROTECTED> |
| 23:37.10 | fotter | <PROTECTED> |
| 23:37.12 | fotter | <PROTECTED> |
| 23:37.15 | fotter | <PROTECTED> |
| 23:37.16 | fotter | <PROTECTED> |
| 23:37.18 | fotter | <PROTECTED> |
| 23:37.20 | fotter | <PROTECTED> |
| 23:37.22 | fotter | <PROTECTED> |
| 23:37.24 | fotter | <PROTECTED> |
| 23:37.26 | fotter | <PROTECTED> |
| 23:37.30 | fotter | <PROTECTED> |
| 23:37.32 | fotter | <PROTECTED> |
| 23:37.34 | fotter | <PROTECTED> |
| 23:37.38 | fotter | <PROTECTED> |
| 23:37.40 | brlcad | it is at least the right tcl |
| 23:37.40 | fotter | <PROTECTED> |
| 23:37.42 | fotter | <PROTECTED> |
| 23:37.44 | fotter | <PROTECTED> |
| 23:37.46 | fotter | <PROTECTED> |
| 23:37.48 | fotter | <PROTECTED> |
| 23:37.50 | fotter | <PROTECTED> |
| 23:37.52 | fotter | <PROTECTED> |
| 23:37.54 | fotter | <PROTECTED> |
| 23:37.56 | fotter | <PROTECTED> |
| 23:37.58 | fotter | <PROTECTED> |
| 23:38.00 | fotter | <PROTECTED> |
| 23:38.02 | fotter | <PROTECTED> |
| 23:38.04 | fotter | <PROTECTED> |
| 23:38.20 | brlcad | so yeah. thanks for your help :) |
| 23:38.22 | fotter | ok, well if i'm around i'm more than happy to try and help... and from what i've seen of brl-cad so far i'm going to find it pretty useful |
| 23:38.40 | brlcad | you did find the manual tutorial series on the website I presume? |
| 23:38.46 | fotter | yes |
| 23:39.09 | brlcad | if you change that block back to an if (0) { you should be back to working |
| 23:39.17 | fotter | so, i guess i would have hit other commands that wouldn't have worked? but fbclear comes first in the tutorial... |
| 23:39.19 | fotter | ok cheers |
| 23:39.20 | brlcad | it's lower in the file |
| 23:39.43 | brlcad | you wouldn't have hit many other commands that rely on the path |
| 23:39.49 | brlcad | slowly been decoupling from the path |
| 23:39.50 | fotter | ah ok |
| 23:39.58 | brlcad | nirt might also have been a problem |
| 23:40.05 | brlcad | other than that, I don't know of another |
| 23:40.18 | brlcad | all the raytracers should be good |
| 23:40.56 | fotter | yes typing 'rt' into the command window worked just fine. |
| 23:43.11 | fotter | well thanks. and as i said, if i'm around i'm more than happy to try things out if it helps - cheers! |
| 23:43.25 | *** part/#brlcad fotter (n=fotter@135.241-7-195.ippool.ndo.com) | |
| 01:14.37 | ``Erik | *yawn* |
| 01:17.36 | Twingy | and now for your moment of zen |
| 01:18.30 | brlcad | hehehe |
| 01:21.18 | Twingy | you know what |
| 01:21.27 | Twingy | my friend emily (21) knows as much about networking as mike |
| 01:21.40 | Twingy | she doesn't have a CS degree either >_< |
| 01:22.41 | brlcad | I know at least a dozen people that don't have a CS degree that could do .. uhm, good work |
| 01:22.54 | Twingy | actually, she's 20 |
| 01:23.25 | Twingy | she had a good mentor though ^_^ |
| 01:23.36 | Twingy | *whistle* |
| 01:23.37 | brlcad | you mean she's damaged goods :) |
| 01:23.44 | Twingy | bah |
| 01:24.00 | Twingy | harsh :) |
| 01:24.05 | Twingy | if you rate |
| 01:24.08 | brlcad | heh |
| 01:24.14 | Twingy | then what's mike |
| 01:24.15 | Twingy | :) |
| 01:24.31 | brlcad | moleman comes to mind for some reason |
| 01:24.37 | Twingy | hah |
| 01:27.57 | ``Erik | O.o |
| 01:28.07 | ``Erik | ain't she the crazy one that wanted to move in with you? o.O |
| 01:29.25 | Twingy | she aint crazy, but yea, she might move here, eventually |
| 01:29.34 | Twingy | well, let me rephrase |
| 01:29.55 | Twingy | she's not as crazy as me, if that says anything ^_^ |
| 01:30.04 | ``Erik | so she's fucking nuts |
| 01:30.08 | Twingy | haha |
| 01:30.18 | Twingy | she doesn't build rockets... |
| 01:30.27 | Twingy | yet o.O |
| 01:30.41 | Twingy | she's more of the artsy type though |
| 01:35.03 | ``Erik | my paper got accepted |
| 01:35.06 | ``Erik | now I gotta write it :( |
| 01:36.04 | ``Erik | dilbert is a riot |
| 01:36.17 | Twingy | gonna bolt on a bug eater? |
| 01:36.24 | ``Erik | and a triple deck wing |
| 01:36.24 | ``Erik | yo |
| 01:36.30 | Twingy | blue barron! |
| 01:36.37 | ``Erik | gonna take down the rear tray and pull the subs out |
| 01:36.45 | Twingy | rattling? |
| 01:36.53 | ``Erik | yeah |
| 01:37.02 | Twingy | got any sticky foam pads? |
| 01:37.05 | ``Erik | the "bmw fix" was to shove a piece of foam in there |
| 01:37.13 | ``Erik | the diy fix is to secure it with a bolt |
| 01:37.24 | Twingy | I would use a sticky felt/foam pad |
| 01:37.25 | ``Erik | I wanna pull it apart and see what's going on, I have a selection of bolts, and two pads of foam rubber |
| 01:37.31 | Twingy | like the kind you put on the bottom of chair legs |
| 01:37.31 | ``Erik | I will un-rattle it. Damnit. |
| 01:37.46 | Twingy | I go through those things like mad |
| 01:37.56 | ``Erik | I dont' have any self-adhesive foam, but I have heavy foam, and glue. |
| 01:38.06 | Twingy | you don't want to glue it |
| 01:38.27 | ``Erik | why not? |
| 01:38.46 | Twingy | just messy |
| 01:38.55 | ``Erik | tonights expedition is primarily investigative. |
| 01:38.58 | Twingy | why kind of glue? |
| 01:39.15 | ``Erik | slowzap or 5min epoxy |
| 01:39.25 | Twingy | I'd use "Gorilla Glue" since it expands as it drys and is as strong as epoxy |
| 01:39.35 | ``Erik | um |
| 01:39.39 | ``Erik | <-- has limited supplies handy |
| 01:39.42 | Twingy | I have some here if you want it |
| 01:39.45 | Twingy | its expensive |
| 01:39.52 | ``Erik | let me pull the deck down first |
| 01:40.00 | ``Erik | one of the "fixes" is to shove 3 tennis balls in |
| 01:40.05 | ``Erik | another is to shove a tshirt in |
| 01:40.07 | Twingy | good luck :) |
| 01:40.23 | ``Erik | I have an idea of the actual mechanism cuasing the issue, but I want to confirm |
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| 03:54.02 | Twingy | hrm, $400 trailer |
| 04:42.44 | ``Erik | there's one for $300 on, uh, powder mill road |
| 04:43.02 | ``Erik | looks like a cut-off of a military vehicle |
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| 12:34.37 | clock_ | brlcad: hi |
| 12:34.53 | brlcad | hi |
| 12:35.08 | clock_ | brlcad: I got an idea that it would be possible to make a snowboard for wheelchair users |
| 12:35.36 | clock_ | brlcad: actually they could ride then like devils because they would have their centre of gravity low ;-) |
| 12:36.16 | brlcad | heh |
| 12:36.54 | clock_ | brlcad: can you imagine the uproar when stephen hawking gets the gold and shaun white only silver? ;-) |
| 12:36.57 | archivist | i thinks its been done, saw something on telly some years ago |
| 12:38.30 | archivist | methinks hawking would just fall into a black hole in the snow |
| 12:38.32 | clock_ | when-i-did-this-1080-i-got-a-sudden-idea-of-new-possible-model-of-the-universe |
| 12:40.32 | clock_ | or: this-machine-gave-me-the-american-voice-and-burton-gave-me-this-american-snowboard |
| 13:53.00 | ``Erik | hm, I can't find the "stephen hawking extreme wheelchair" picture that was floating around on the 'net a bit ago... :/ |
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| 13:56.22 | clock_ | http://www.disabilitiesunlimited.org/Images/pro_wheelchair.jpg |
| 14:04.08 | ``Erik | heh, yup, that's it... I was googling for 'extreme', silly me |
| 14:06.19 | ``Erik | heh, yeah, that's it :D |
| 14:10.57 | clock_ | stephen hawk extreme wheelchair competition ;-) |
| 14:16.14 | clock_ | it's a pity that hawking has also his arms paralyzed, otherwise he could be a chick magnet like this one: http://www.teen-bodybuilding.com/site/coltwynn.htm |
| 14:28.24 | ``Erik | heh |
| 14:28.31 | ``Erik | I think my arms are like, four inches |
| 14:28.32 | ``Erik | o.O |
| 14:32.07 | clock_ | ``Erik: 4 inches diameter or circumference? |
| 14:33.54 | ``Erik | circumference, heh (and I'm joking) |
| 15:57.54 | clock_ | the guy with melons instead of biceps was really funny |
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| 16:37.24 | whitehawk | bye |
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| 02:36.36 | justin_ | hrm, my finger smells funny |
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| 15:18.35 | brlcad | howdy cobbaut |
| 15:18.50 | cobbaut | i |
| 15:18.56 | brlcad | nice plug, I was wondering the same ;) |
| 15:18.58 | cobbaut | i mean hi |
| 15:20.11 | cobbaut | you mean the script...it helps me remember how i did stuff... |
| 15:21.26 | cobbaut | the 'source' command doesn't seem to be documented, i found it through the 'context help' in the mged GUI |
| 15:23.46 | clock__ | hmm brlcad widows port... |
| 15:24.03 | clock__ | brlcad: what does kick the tires mean? |
| 15:25.09 | ``Erik | o.O |
| 15:48.58 | brlcad | cobbaut: actually I meant the /. comment itself ;) |
| 15:49.14 | brlcad | clock__: it means to test something, to try it |
| 15:52.24 | brlcad | it's a saying that comes from kicking the tires of an automobile as a means to see how sturdy/useful/reliable it is, etc |
| 16:03.13 | cobbaut | brlcad: ;-) ... it was too late to get noticed or modded anyway |
| 16:15.57 | brlcad | yeah, I didn't read it until it was off the mainpage |
| 17:06.38 | ``Erik | kick the fires and light the tires, yo |
| 17:06.39 | ``Erik | o.O |
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| 22:53.21 | daggerr | does anyone know of a tutorial for practical modeling with mged? |
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| 23:06.29 | daggerr | anyone here that is not idling? |
| 23:08.13 | pra5ad | have u tried http://ftp.brlcad.org/VolumeII-Introduction_to_MGED.pdf ? |
| 23:23.35 | daggerr | yes |
| 23:24.11 | daggerr | have not done it all, the first half, then i've been reading the rest |
| 23:24.38 | daggerr | but it does not seem to provide any means for efficient modeling, or perhaps im used to other means of modeling |
| 23:25.26 | daggerr | but i'd like functions for "copy and translate", rotate and translate, and "snap to intersection" and stuff like that |
| 23:26.34 | daggerr | modeling with arbitrary mositioning using the mouse is nothing that i like, and atleast i can not remember all the sizes of the objects in my models to calculate the exact positions |
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| 00:49.29 | Twingy | woot, my forge burner works great |
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| 02:43.20 | *** topic/#brlcad is http://brlcad.org/ || BRL-CAD is now Free Software! || BRL-CAD Windows port has been merged to HEAD, not yet stable yet || Archer is now on HEAD as well, kick the tires, report any bugs || there WILL be a 7.6.8 released ASAP for January after all | |
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| 03:41.28 | *** topic/#brlcad is http://brlcad.org/ || BRL-CAD is now Free Software! || BRL-CAD Windows port has been merged to HEAD, not yet stable yet || Archer is now on HEAD as well, kick the tires, report any bugs || there WILL be a 7.6.8 released ASAP for January after all | |
| 03:48.58 | CIA-5 | BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/util/bwscale.c: add support for '-' as the input file to designate stdin, use libbu memory management, reorder functions, and ws. |
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| 04:45.56 | Twingy | office is done |
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| 19:53.53 | ktne | hello |
| 19:54.07 | ktne | i've just downloaded brlcad but i can't find from where to start |
| 19:54.20 | ktne | is there some kind of "main" 3d editor? |
| 19:54.36 | clock_ | mged |
| 19:54.41 | ktne | ok, thx |
| 19:54.52 | clock_ | brlcad: this should be added in some prominent place :) |
| 19:55.42 | ktne | hmm |
| 19:55.50 | learner | clock_: hmm :) |
| 19:55.52 | ktne | i can't find anything familiar :) |
| 19:56.21 | learner | ktne: i suggest starting with the tutorials on http://brlcad.org the first and second documents |
| 19:56.33 | ktne | ok. thx |
| 19:56.43 | learner | one gives a basic overview of the tools and methodologies |
| 19:56.58 | ktne | how does it compare with autocad? |
| 19:57.05 | learner | the other is a fairly extensive series of tutorial lessons on mged |
| 19:57.37 | learner | depends entirely what you're comparing, somewhat apples and oranges |
| 19:58.05 | ktne | hmm |
| 19:58.08 | learner | autocad is a drafting cad package, focuses on 2d, brl-cad is a solid modeling suite, more akin to unigraphics or pro/e |
| 19:58.26 | ktne | i have no idea what unigraphics and pro/e are :) |
| 19:58.55 | ktne | does it perform any kind of simulation? |
| 19:59.00 | ktne | or just modelling? |
| 19:59.25 | learner | http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Solid_modeling |
| 19:59.34 | ktne | thanks |
| 19:59.35 | learner | it simulates light and energy transport |
| 19:59.55 | learner | traditional raytracing and path tracing |
| 20:00.15 | learner | as well as thermal, computation of weights, moments of inertia, intersections etc |
| 20:00.40 | clock_ | learner: intersections? |
| 20:00.54 | learner | it doesn't perform vulnerability or stress analyses if that's what you're asking |
| 20:01.46 | learner | clock_: overlapping regions/parts, collision detection.. i forget the pro/e term for it, we call them overlaps.. maybe "interferences" |
| 20:02.00 | learner | yeah, interferences |
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| 21:45.38 | ``Erik | w00t, finally found it, http://www.blamonet.com/gallery/albums/userpics/10001/normal_kittens.jpeg |
| 21:48.00 | brlcad | heh, saw that |
| 21:48.07 | brlcad | and the matching ipod sock cover |
| 21:48.56 | ``Erik | heh, which variant did you see? this is a parody of the 'normal' one :) |
| 21:50.07 | brlcad | http://www.craftster.org/forum/index.php?topic=76605.0 |
| 22:00.54 | ``Erik | heh, nifty |
| 22:49.46 | pra5ad | my poor credit card.. =( |
| 22:57.37 | ``Erik | <-- poorer |
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| 01:39.50 | Mac- | hi there |
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| 02:01.13 | brlcad | Mac-: howdy |
| 02:03.13 | Mac- | fine and you ? |
| 02:05.54 | brlcad | going great |
| 02:08.00 | brlcad | ~pl |
| 02:08.02 | ibot | i guess pl is sometimes referred to as \"packet loss\" |
| 02:08.30 | brlcad | ~.pl |
| 02:08.31 | ibot | .pl is, like, Poland (or a perl extension) |
| 02:08.46 | brlcad | that's right, never seem to remember that one |
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| 02:31.43 | Mac-- | sorry |
| 02:31.57 | Mac-- | it was disconnect by ISP |
| 02:51.45 | brlcad | no problem here ;) |
| 02:54.08 | Mac- | i was here some time ago, and asked about drafting in brl-cad |
| 02:54.26 | Mac- | equivalent to autocad |
| 02:54.29 | brlcad | yeah, I vaguely recall |
| 02:54.39 | brlcad | that's a frequent question regardless ;) |
| 02:54.46 | brlcad | everyone want an autocad alternative :) |
| 02:56.39 | Mac- | but now my university started subject 'CAD/CAM Systems' |
| 02:56.48 | Mac- | and they talk about CATIA |
| 02:56.57 | Mac- | which is solid modeling |
| 02:57.02 | brlcad | there's an expensive system |
| 02:57.06 | Mac- | yeah |
| 02:57.08 | Mac- | right |
| 02:57.14 | Mac- | very expensive |
| 02:57.37 | Mac- | and i want to ask you is brl-cad equivalent for CATIA ? |
| 02:59.14 | brlcad | much more equivalent than it is to autocad |
| 02:59.42 | brlcad | there are plenty of features that catia does that brl-cad doesn't support, though |
| 03:00.02 | brlcad | e.g. brl-cad doesn't do hardly anything related to CAM other than basic geometric management |
| 03:00.46 | Mac- | for CNC ? |
| 03:01.07 | brlcad | right |
| 03:01.42 | brlcad | that said, it's not a far stretch to get into that area |
| 03:01.56 | brlcad | it's just a focus that's never been needed or considered |
| 03:03.01 | Mac- | hmm, well brl isn`t designed to CAM area ? |
| 03:03.36 | brlcad | CAD, design, and even more specifically towards analyses primarily |
| 03:03.47 | brlcad | rendering through raytracing, etc |
| 03:04.00 | brlcad | it has been used in CAM areas |
| 03:04.23 | brlcad | it's easy enough to export geometry into a format that most CNC machining systems recognize |
| 03:04.39 | brlcad | and correct solidity should be preserved |
| 03:05.14 | Mac- | 'should' is very expensive word in mechanic |
| 03:05.15 | Mac- | :> |
| 03:06.38 | brlcad | well, it is preserved, guaranteed topology up to the tolerances you select |
| 03:06.44 | Mac- | ok, but i`m obnly student, my way to real CNC is like from Earth to Sun :) |
| 03:08.14 | Mac- | is there any support from graphic card for work in brl ? |
| 03:08.37 | brlcad | the default rendering context is via opengl |
| 03:09.19 | brlcad | historically, the graphics card isn't relied upon much though as the models historically don't fit within video card memory (until very very recently) |
| 03:11.39 | Mac- | i`m working on Matrox MGA G200 8MB |
| 03:12.12 | Mac- | it is too weak ? |
| 03:13.03 | brlcad | for brl-cad? it should be completely fine |
| 03:13.09 | brlcad | our minimum requirements are pretty bare :) |
| 03:15.06 | Mac- | ok, waht about memmory and CPU subsystem ? |
| 03:16.09 | brlcad | there's not really a memory or cpu minimum.. that only limits the size of the models and speed it will evaluate raytraces, etc |
| 03:16.24 | brlcad | maybe a minimum of a couple megs to invoke the tcl version of mged |
| 03:17.11 | Mac- | but Pentium 166MHz is a little to small :> |
| 03:18.35 | brlcad | brl-cad's run on stuff over the past 20 years, I've run it on old 486's with no problems |
| 03:18.56 | brlcad | just slows it down ;) |
| 03:21.33 | Mac- | hehe |
| 03:23.28 | Mac- | i worked on AMD K6-2 450MHz for 6 years |
| 03:23.58 | Mac- | but CPU got malfunction (reset by itself from time to time) |
| 03:24.12 | Mac- | and now i have to byu something to replace |
| 03:25.48 | Mac- | but they are 486 level? |
| 03:34.07 | ``Erik | and coleco adam |
| 03:34.10 | ``Erik | and c128 |
| 03:34.40 | ``Erik | mebbe that's why I dig those little microcontrollers and pics so much, heh |
| 03:35.29 | ``Erik | fight scenes in family guy are freakin' awesome |
| 03:40.16 | brlcad | the whole scene to go smack down will ferrill is hilarious |
| 03:45.38 | Mac- | well something like PIII ~900MHz will be fine ? |
| 03:51.29 | pra5ad | ohh no work tomorrow |
| 03:52.54 | pra5ad | but i have class tomorrow |
| 03:52.56 | pra5ad | nooooo |
| 03:53.36 | ``Erik | ... |
| 03:53.40 | ``Erik | damn you whine a lot |
| 03:53.52 | ``Erik | :D |
| 03:57.56 | pra5ad | old news |
| 03:58.27 | pra5ad | ill be in san jose for spring break |
| 04:07.33 | ``Erik | I thought san jose was a whole lot more west than south |
| 04:19.45 | pra5ad | that is besides the point |
| 04:45.22 | Mac- | what about SMP systems ? |
| 06:07.01 | brlcad | Mac-: all the raytracers take advantage of SMP automatically by default, and can be set up for distributed systems with a little extra effort |
| 06:08.30 | Mac- | nice |
| 06:08.56 | Mac- | i could get 2xPIII 866MHz for ~100$ |
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| 10:02.53 | Mac- | re |
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| 12:42.41 | CIA-5 | BRL-CAD: 03bob1961 * 10brlcad/src/librt/wdb_obj.c: Modified wdb_killtree_callback()'s call to dgo_eraseobjall_callback (i.e. parameters were out of order). Modified wdb_killtree_cmd() to call dgo_notifyWdb() to reduce the number of times observers are notified. |
| 12:46.21 | CIA-5 | BRL-CAD: 03bob1961 * 10brlcad/src/librt/dg_obj.c: Added missing parameter to dgo_eraseobjall_callback(). Added dgo_notifyWdb(). |
| 12:52.33 | CIA-5 | BRL-CAD: 03bob1961 * 10brlcad/include/raytrace.h: Flesh out parameter list for the declaration of dgo_eraseobjall_callback() and dgo_notify(). Declare dgo_notifyWdb(). |
| 12:56.28 | CIA-5 | BRL-CAD: 03bob1961 * 10brlcad/src/librt/dg_obj.c: Removed declaration of dgo_eraseobjall_callback() and dgo_notify(). |
| 13:53.03 | CIA-5 | BRL-CAD: 03bob1961 * 10brlcad/misc/win32-msvc7/librt/librt.vcproj: Update the debug version's preprocessor definitions. |
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| 15:37.54 | age | could BRL-CAD be used for building models also? |
| 15:38.48 | ``Erik | ... that's kinda the purpose of it :) |
| 15:39.21 | age | i mean, building (structures) models |
| 15:41.02 | ``Erik | there's a detailed building that comes with the package as an example |
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| 15:41.53 | Mac- | re |
| 15:42.10 | age | ok, my interest is in using brlcad for simulating NBCR/explosive events, on structures |
| 15:43.28 | ``Erik | ARL has a group that does that, I THINK they use brlcad .g files, but I'm not sure |
| 15:44.22 | age | are you with the ARL? |
| 15:44.36 | ``Erik | some of us, yeah |
| 15:45.11 | age | i've had back luck trying to contact govt ppl lately, whether it is ATEC or whatnot heh |
| 15:45.31 | ``Erik | <-- has never talked to atec |
| 15:45.49 | age | did you try to get in contact with them also? :D |
| 15:46.23 | ``Erik | heh, no :) |
| 15:46.36 | age | they had some good window dressing on how they evaluate devices for use in the battlefield |
| 15:46.49 | age | i thought, ok, if i talk to them, maybe they will share their methodology. |
| 15:46.53 | age | no such luck. |
| 15:47.27 | ``Erik | there's an official brlcad email with an @arl.army.mil address, iirc, that goes to a fistful of people, I'd be surprised if you didn't get a fairly prompt response... not today of course, but tomorrow |
| 15:48.12 | ``Erik | (or, if you just have questions and stuff, I'm here right now, others will wake up or something later) |
| 15:49.06 | ``Erik | hrm, well, I thought there was an @arl.army.mil addy, but I'm not seeing it, heh |
| 15:50.43 | ``Erik | nbc+r on structures? I can only think of a couple industry niches interested in that kinda stuff o.O |
| 15:51.08 | brlcad | there was/is, it's a moderated forwardable alias -- the old mailing list addr |
| 15:51.12 | brlcad | cad @ |
| 15:51.19 | age | erik > have you ever looked at digital sandbox? |
| 15:51.36 | age | they have a very very expensive solution for doing some of that |
| 15:51.38 | ``Erik | newp |
| 15:51.47 | age | they do explosions only i believe |
| 15:52.12 | ``Erik | blast, shock, fragments/debris, all that? |
| 15:52.23 | brlcad | sounds incredibly familiar :) |
| 15:52.38 | age | i'm not sure how much of it they do, but if i remember right, only explosions |
| 15:52.58 | ``Erik | well, those're some of the damage mechanisms from an explosion... heh |
| 15:53.18 | age | i want to do chemical agents of various types, bio agents, explosions, radiological, nuclear, etc |
| 15:53.25 | ``Erik | sean, is the sf mailing list the best 'official channel' now? |
| 15:53.31 | brlcad | you could rather easily simulate explosive events via the raytrace libraries, it's pretty much used in that manner already in muves to some extents |
| 15:53.53 | brlcad | ``Erik: for anything non-sensitive, yeah |
| 15:54.07 | brlcad | and here |
| 15:54.22 | brlcad | i'd even say irc is primary, mailing list is secondary |
| 15:54.23 | age | what about modeling people within the buildings also? I'd be interested in doing that too :D |
| 15:54.23 | ``Erik | radiation transport can be done fairly easy, I'd imagine? (path tracing style)... chem might be a bit hairier, that seems to get more towards fem land |
| 15:55.12 | age | i don't like the idea that the US govt has to pay 300,000+ for a software package to do counter terrorism planning stuff |
| 15:55.19 | brlcad | there's an effort going on this year where brl-cad is being used to simulate radiation transport levels to people in situations/places |
| 15:55.47 | age | what about fluid dispersion? |
| 15:55.48 | ``Erik | I've seen plain csg models of humans that have enough fidelity for building and vehicle stuff... and nurb support is being improved right now |
| 15:56.38 | brlcad | why pay 300k when the government has already paid millions for brl-cad over it's life ;) |
| 15:57.01 | brlcad | and it's fully customizeable and "free" today at least now |
| 15:57.33 | age | brldcad: i think because http://www.dsbox.com/ is an easier to use package |
| 15:58.07 | brlcad | age: that is a fairly safe "no" towards fluid dispersion, don't think anyone has done that yet as fluid mechanics usually involve a completely different class of calculations |
| 15:58.22 | age | and has more features specific to counter terrorism. |
| 15:58.50 | ``Erik | fluid dispersion seems pretty well wedged into the FEM world |
| 15:59.47 | ``Erik | if we had (better) voxel support, it's be a possibility, I'd suppose... that damn boy needs to get off his ass and do the nastran converters |
| 16:00.02 | brlcad | age: i do understand the naysayers concerns, brl-cad's gui modeling interface can be painful -- nobody ever wanted to pay to make it easy to use .. |
| 16:00.27 | brlcad | but this is more in-line with the libraries, not so much the tools, and the libraries are pretty easy to use |
| 16:00.57 | age | is brlcad funded only by govt users of it? |
| 16:01.11 | brlcad | primarily, but not solely |
| 16:01.29 | brlcad | plus it's also open source now, so anyone can get in on the development |
| 16:03.14 | brlcad | there's not really anything preventing you or anyone else from contributing to the project to the point that they'd actually become a core developer or core contributor (for non-devs) etc |
| 16:10.06 | age | that is good, i have to see how much time i will have in the future |
| 16:10.53 | brlcad | even if you can't get involved and there's something that you're interested in, it's good to raise the issues and questions on the mailing list or to even make feature requests on sf |
| 16:11.29 | brlcad | they do get read several times over |
| 16:11.54 | brlcad | of course unless it's something sensitive, then just contact directly |
| 16:14.51 | ``Erik | heh, I thought milton was supposed to be doing that |
| 16:15.05 | brlcad | heh |
| 16:15.25 | brlcad | something different |
| 16:15.28 | ``Erik | I was kinda hoping I'd get put on that after milton... didn't do anything at all :D |
| 16:15.31 | ``Erik | ahhh, okie |
| 16:15.57 | brlcad | working on auto-improving the orca human model |
| 16:16.05 | ``Erik | 'auto-improving'? |
| 16:16.07 | ``Erik | <PROTECTED> |
| 16:16.16 | brlcad | yep, it's looking good so far |
| 16:16.51 | brlcad | found a nasty bug in orca in the process |
| 16:17.37 | brlcad | something trivial to fix fortunately |
| 16:22.01 | ``Erik | http://www.ctrlaltdel-online.com/comic.php?d=20030607 *snrktkt* |
| 16:24.13 | brlcad | heh |
| 16:25.29 | age | Erik: the value of small teams of snipers is tying up conventional forces is vastly underrated :) |
| 16:25.55 | ``Erik | true, but if they don't watch the paths to get to 'em... EXACTLY that happens |
| 16:26.06 | ``Erik | I've done it and I've been done like that, hehehehhee |
| 16:26.57 | age | yeah, but most infantry people become so sound aware when deployed |
| 16:27.25 | age | my sense of smell became hyper sensitive also when i was deployed |
| 16:29.21 | ``Erik | I'd imagine that any sense that could keep you from getting dead becomes hightened in those kind of situations o.O |
| 16:29.47 | age | i just looked at the photo too, it had someone taking a shot from the knee |
| 16:30.09 | age | which is something in the army we almost never do, and AA discourages if i remember right |
| 16:30.26 | age | almost exclusively from the prone :D |
| 16:30.57 | ``Erik | opposed to ut and quake, where most shots are taken while spinning airborne |
| 16:31.06 | ``Erik | :D |
| 16:31.28 | age | yeah, the unrealistic aspect of most FPSs bother me. |
| 16:31.54 | age | jump through the door, land and duck, facing opposite direction, shoot. |
| 16:31.56 | age | lol. |
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| 16:32.34 | ``Erik | running 60mph, jumping 30 feet, landing without ever losing bead... |
| 16:33.02 | brlcad | http://www.ctrlaltdel-online.com/comic.php?d=20060130 |
| 16:33.05 | age | i remember AA taking breathing into affect though, which is an improvement over most FPSs |
| 16:33.06 | ``Erik | laughing off hits with no ill effects, just grab a box and it's all better, do it over and over |
| 16:33.39 | age | but, i remember AA discounting trigger squeeze, as if newb soldiers have perfect non pulling squeezes from the start |
| 16:33.40 | age | :D |
| 16:33.44 | ``Erik | only in 'aim' mode |
| 16:33.53 | ``Erik | iirc |
| 16:34.14 | age | yeah. |
| 16:34.22 | ``Erik | one of these days, I'll get my fbsd box back up and running how it's supposed to so I can play some games again |
| 16:34.41 | age | they overrate the recoil on the m249 also |
| 16:35.05 | age | experienced m249/240/60 gunners, have very tight shot groups on piasters |
| 16:35.41 | ``Erik | heh |
| 16:36.19 | ``Erik | back when I was playing it, i tended to take medic roles... |
| 16:36.34 | age | it would ruin most FPS games, but i'll tell you straight up. Nothing compares to an M249 for real life stuff |
| 16:36.49 | ``Erik | massive points just to stop one dude from bleeding |
| 16:37.48 | age | the m249, is only 17 lbs, cyclic rate is very fast, recoil is minimal, one person can take out squads with minimal difficulty. |
| 16:40.20 | ``Erik | provided they aren't flanked |
| 16:42.34 | age | also, another thing that is great about the m249 is the accuracy |
| 16:43.01 | age | you can snipe with an m249, with the regular barrel |
| 16:43.42 | age | put some NODs on it, and they are so sweet at night |
| 16:43.42 | ``Erik | what's the dispersion numbers? do ya know? (are they public release?) |
| 16:44.00 | age | i think they are public release |
| 16:44.37 | age | http://www.army.mil/fact_files_site/m-249_saw/index.html |
| 16:45.07 | age | here it says max effective range on a point target is 600m |
| 16:45.18 | age | but i think it is longer than that |
| 16:45.42 | age | ditto with effectiveness on area target |
| 16:45.54 | ``Erik | they don't say the radius or anything of accuracy at those distances, tho :/ |
| 16:46.10 | ``Erik | ah well |
| 16:46.35 | age | it is really easy to clean and disassemble also |
| 16:47.56 | ``Erik | against an 8x8 target at 850m, 90% hit rate out of 800 rounds (zeroed to 300m) |
| 16:49.11 | age | 5.56 rounds drop out at the long ranges so skill comes into play |
| 16:49.50 | age | but, i thought my m249 was much more accurate than the m60, which i was used primarily before then |
| 16:49.51 | ``Erik | these were vehicle mounted computer systems and test stands, I think... |
| 16:50.50 | ``Erik | aannnyyywwwaaayyysss |
| 16:51.24 | age | probably not vehicle mounted, since m249s are not fired so often in vehicles |
| 16:52.44 | ``Erik | this was a 'crow' system, they were testing different guns for use in it |
| 16:52.50 | ``Erik | computer controlled dealie, I think |
| 16:53.13 | ``Erik | *shrug* I skipped most of the slides in the pdf, was lookin' for the numbers :) |
| 16:56.51 | pra5ad | buildings eh |
| 16:58.31 | ``Erik | oi, prasad |
| 16:58.48 | pra5ad | we used STMG (see ARA) for that |
| 17:07.13 | brlcad | which should be integrated with STMG, that was someone's failure to notice the replication/need |
| 17:07.37 | brlcad | they're still busy reinventing the wheel there |
| 17:07.46 | brlcad | geometricly |
| 17:09.57 | pra5ad | what should be integrated with stmg? |
| 17:10.27 | pra5ad | o brlcad |
| 17:13.51 | age | STMG looks interesting |
| 17:14.08 | pra5ad | buggy as hell though |
| 17:14.22 | pra5ad | here's the kicker.. its a java program |
| 17:15.15 | ``Erik | *shudder* |
| 17:15.40 | age | hehehe |
| 17:19.05 | pra5ad | brlcad, fwiw stmg does save its models in 4 formats, and iirc one is a .g |
| 17:20.28 | ``Erik | http://www.ctrlaltdel-online.com/comic.php?d=20031004 |
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| 17:26.41 | pra5ad | watched harold and kumar again |
| 17:26.42 | pra5ad | =) |
| 17:39.40 | learner | pra5ad, yeah, v4 ascii iirc, maybe |
| 17:39.57 | learner | and it's something like simplified arbs/boxes |
| 17:40.29 | learner | their internal geometry management was pathetic from what I listened to last fall |
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| 19:43.58 | pier | brlcad... about g-dxf, get an error message when giving: |
| 19:44.09 | pier | bash-3.00$ g-dxf -o cubo.dxf cubo.g cubo.s |
| 19:44.09 | pier | db_walk_subtree() FAIL on '/cubo.s' |
| 19:44.09 | pier | 12 triangles written |
| 20:06.06 | brlcad | pier: cubo.s is a "leaf" node, i.e. a primitive |
| 20:06.45 | brlcad | converters work on a region/combination level |
| 20:07.28 | brlcad | generally speaking, there is no "physical" geometry until you make a region |
| 20:08.11 | pier | I made one as a matter of fact |
| 20:08.18 | brlcad | it's just a template, a void space |
| 20:08.25 | pier | cubo.s -> cubo.r |
| 20:08.26 | brlcad | before you make a region |
| 20:08.37 | brlcad | ah, great |
| 20:08.52 | brlcad | so specify that instead of the .s on g-dxf |
| 20:09.00 | pier | so the command I gave was faulty |
| 20:09.10 | pier | ok yhanks |
| 20:09.14 | pier | thanks |
| 20:09.22 | brlcad | you told it to convert cubo.s |
| 20:09.31 | brlcad | g-dxf -o cubo.dxf cubo.g cubo.r |
| 20:09.32 | pier | yep |
| 20:10.02 | pier | ok it works |
| 20:10.40 | pier | brlcad... I am still working on the second volume but a bit slowly |
| 20:12.38 | brlcad | no problem at all ;) |
| 20:12.42 | pier | so I am not sure about when it will be ready |
| 20:13.14 | brlcad | wouldn't want to shadow it with the other big announcements coming out this month and next regardless |
| 20:13.37 | pier | bit in trouble with an exam these days... |
| 20:13.50 | pier | about releasing a win version? |
| 20:14.22 | brlcad | that's one of the big announcements |
| 20:16.08 | pier | and a taste of the others...? |
| 20:16.34 | pier | nevermind it it is top secret |
| 20:16.57 | brlcad | no top secrets, this is open source :) |
| 20:17.34 | pier | yes of course |
| 20:19.20 | brlcad | most of it's in the NEWS file already, hasn't been announced in a while |
| 20:19.40 | pier | ok I'll have a look at it |
| 20:19.43 | brlcad | the new clone duplication command will be big news to some |
| 20:20.38 | brlcad | it's a tool for very easily creating patterns of geometry, way easier than the current pattern tool |
| 20:20.54 | pier | Is it to make copies of components and regions? |
| 20:21.17 | brlcad | yes, in various ways through a pretty simple syntax |
| 20:21.53 | brlcad | one of a handful of really powerful tools from the former GSI modeling powerhouse |
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| 20:33.28 | pier | brlcad, I can't see why I am not able to import a dxf file exported with the gdxf commnd with blender as well as with ac3d |
| 20:34.23 | brlcad | blender's dxf support is horrible |
| 20:35.41 | pier | I'm testing this with a dxf file that ac3d can open whereas blender fails |
| 20:36.08 | pier | but both of them cannot open cubo.dxf |
| 20:36.23 | brlcad | keep in touch with a few of the blender devs from time to time, their support is very basic. fails on most things that autocad exports too |
| 20:36.46 | pier | neithed autocad does |
| 20:36.53 | pier | neither |
| 20:37.09 | brlcad | if autocad doesn't then it's probably our fault ;) |
| 20:37.14 | brlcad | unless it's a versioning problem |
| 20:37.19 | brlcad | dxf has several versions |
| 20:39.26 | brlcad | send me or post the cubo.dxf, I can at least see if it's something trivial |
| 20:39.48 | brlcad | should probably get reported as a bug on the tracker |
| 20:39.49 | pier | not that I am interested in it but before trying to extract triangles from the dxf file I wanted to have a go at looking the objects in these programs |
| 20:40.15 | pier | ok will via ftp work |
| 20:40.30 | brlcad | extract triangles? there are better exporters for that |
| 20:40.39 | brlcad | stl is a very simple triangle format |
| 20:40.59 | brlcad | e-mail would be better, but ftp works too |
| 20:41.56 | pier | yes... I am still looking to writing a program (crappy for sure) that draws the mai view of an object |
| 20:42.09 | pier | main views |
| 20:43.10 | pier | removing hidden faces (the painter's algo) and drawing hidden edges with dashed lines |
| 20:43.34 | brlcad | or not drawing them altogether ;) |
| 20:45.10 | pier | do you think that it would be to much effort for a rookie programmer? |
| 20:45.39 | pier | please give me the e:mail |
| 20:48.14 | brlcad | not too much effort, anything's possible ;) |
| 20:49.42 | pier | I thought that extracting all the triangles wouldn't be that hard... perhaps I am wrong |
| 20:50.09 | pier | Is there a positive verse in the vertex numbering? |
| 20:50.38 | brlcad | extracting the triangle is the easiest part |
| 20:50.45 | pier | so that it woud be possible to work out an exiting versor from the surface? |
| 20:52.50 | pier | that way it wouldn't be hard to pinpoint the hidden ones |
| 21:00.50 | brlcad | possible, though that's where it gets tricky |
| 21:01.28 | brlcad | i've seen some algorithms for it, but only glanced through them |
| 21:04.07 | pier | I'll have a look at the dxf txt file to see if the triangles are stored cws or ccws |
| 21:07.02 | pier | and let you know if I get to something |
| 21:14.00 | pier | Ok bye then |
| 01:38.28 | CIA-5 | BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/util/ (decimate.c pixembed.c): libbu memory management |
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| 05:49.56 | pra5ad | i see no difference in performance between this 6200 vs my old ti4600 |
| 05:50.00 | pra5ad | hrm |
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| 20:28.08 | CIA-5 | BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/README: initial README file that describes what is in each of the various directories in here |
| 20:29.29 | CIA-5 | BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/Makefile.am: include the README in the dist |
| 20:30.06 | CIA-5 | BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/HACKING: refer to the new src/README file for entries not listed in HACKING |
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| 03:37.54 | justin_ | hrm |
| 03:38.03 | justin_ | parallel path magnetic technology is under fire on wiki |
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| 09:17.46 | cobbaut | hah! +1 insightful http://slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=177612&cid=14735202 |
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| 19:22.56 | *** topic/#brlcad is http://brlcad.org/ || BRL-CAD is now Free Software! || BRL-CAD Windows port has been merged to HEAD, not yet stable yet || Archer is now on HEAD as well, kick the tires, report any bugs || there WILL be a 7.6.8 released ASAP for January after all | |
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| 00:18.05 | ``Erik | blarggghhhhh |
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| 00:42.38 | ``Erik | issues, prasad? |
| 00:43.13 | pra5ad_ | trying to get wireless working on ubuntu |
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| 03:13.04 | justin_ | mmm long day |
| 03:54.08 | brlcad | very |
| 03:54.15 | brlcad | how's that cake |
| 04:12.22 | pra5ad_ | new penny arcade is hi-larious |
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| 10:21.39 | slackaddict | Hi. I can't for the life of me view any .pix images on Slackware, any ideas? |
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| 10:22.41 | cobbaut | goodmorning |
| 10:23.11 | slackaddict | morning |
| 10:23.15 | cobbaut | i started a humble attempt to create an "mged tutorial by example" |
| 10:23.32 | cobbaut | it is downloadable here http://cobbaut.be/byExample.pdf |
| 10:24.02 | cobbaut | please tell me what you think (and correct mistakes, since i'm not native english) |
| 10:25.03 | debianaddict | ;-) |
| 10:26.43 | slackaddict | cobbault: I'm just having a look at your tutorial, looks good ao far |
| 10:27.33 | cobbaut | thx |
| 10:27.56 | slackaddict | cobbault: can you view the .pix images on debian? |
| 10:28.15 | cobbaut | what .pix images ? |
| 10:30.16 | cobbaut | hmm...gimp doesn't open them |
| 10:30.44 | slackaddict | if you do a raytrace of a model and output to a file I think its always .pix format |
| 10:31.12 | slackaddict | ...at least I haven't found a way of outputting to a different format |
| 10:31.44 | slackaddict | I've tried gimp, but it says it can't read any of the files |
| 10:36.46 | cobbaut | i take screenshots of the raytrace... |
| 10:38.57 | slackaddict | thats a good idea...I was trying to output images from rtwizard |
| 10:40.36 | cobbaut | i tried outputting to postscript, but the image is always very small and in a corner of the postscriptpage |
| 10:41.06 | cobbaut | btw, i'm a brlcad newbie |
| 10:42.19 | slackaddict | I'm pretty new too |
| 10:43.17 | slackaddict | ...but I have quite a bit of experience with 3d modelling |
| 10:52.29 | slackaddict | cobbaut: lol i just noticed i've been writing your name wrong, sorry about that :-) |
| 10:59.13 | cobbaut | happens a lot... |
| 10:59.28 | cobbaut | i don't find a way to open .pix :( |
| 11:00.20 | slackaddict | me too :( |
| 11:01.30 | slackaddict | i don't know if its all .pix images or if brl-cad is outputting corrucpted ones |
| 12:39.21 | slackaddict | I have posted a question about my .pix image problem in the help forum at sourceforge, now its time for lunch......... |
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| 13:42.32 | brlcad_ | cobbaut: brl-cad .pix images are first quadrant raw images |
| 13:43.28 | brlcad_ | there are a whole suite of tools in brl-cad for viewing/manipulating pix files, e.g. pix-fb -F/dev/Xl somefile.pix |
| 13:43.59 | brlcad_ | since they are raw, you have to provide the image dimensions if the pix image is something other than the default of 512x512 |
| 13:45.10 | brlcad_ | to open a raw in gimp, rename the file to .raw and/or select raw in gimp providing the image dimenions when prompted (same goes for photoshop), you'll then need to flip the image horizontally and vertically as they both work on fourth quadrant images |
| 13:45.23 | *** mode/#brlcad [+o brlcad] by ChanServ | |
| 15:29.48 | cobbaut | brlcad: actually it was slackaddict who wanted to see .pix files, but thx for the info anyway |
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| 21:33.07 | brlcad | cobbaut: yep, more just informational |
| 21:33.33 | brlcad | you can also output to file and simulataneously display, e.g. use the -o file.pix and -F/dev/Xl together for example |
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| 22:47.29 | cobbaut | brlcad: i tried the dcraw and ufraw plugins for gimp, but fail to open the .pix output |
| 22:48.28 | cobbaut | gimp 2.2 on debian |
| 22:57.46 | cobbaut | changing irc client...currently on firefox :-P |
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| 23:47.46 | ``Erik | home at last |
| 00:18.15 | ``Erik | ah. |
| 00:18.16 | ``Erik | Choo. |
| 00:24.25 | brlcad | cobbaut: it's not a plugin, gimp supports it natively, it's a simple raw image -- interleaved R G B values dumped to a file |
| 00:24.36 | brlcad | but it has to be named right, .raw |
| 00:25.10 | brlcad | otherwise gimp tries to parse it as an sgi ".pix" which is something different |
| 00:28.35 | brlcad | ufraw is a different kind of raw afaik |
| 00:28.48 | brlcad | raw from digital cameras, which is encoded different |
| 00:30.16 | brlcad | unless gimp has changed in the past few years |
| 00:41.09 | brlcad | bah, just tried opening it in gimp, no longer see the option I remember |
| 00:41.29 | brlcad | so forgo the raw, convert to png with pix-png |
| 00:41.46 | brlcad | pix-png file.pix > file.png |
| 00:42.09 | brlcad | or convert to pnm pretty easily as is: |
| 00:42.20 | brlcad | echo "P6 |
| 00:42.28 | brlcad | 512 512 255" > file.pnm |
| 00:42.33 | brlcad | cat file.pix >> file.pnm |
| 01:19.54 | CIA-5 | BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/BUGS: wavelet isn't working correctly on a simple image decomposition and reconstruction |
| 03:05.55 | justin_ | another long day >_< |
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| 12:25.03 | CIA-5 | BRL-CAD: 03d_rossberg * 10brlcad/src/librt/wdb_obj.c: allocate memory before RT_APPLICATION_INIT |
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| 15:21.42 | brlcad | d_rossberg: nice catch, eek |
| 15:25.09 | d_rossberg | isn't it :-) |
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| 17:31.09 | birdmun | i get errors (many) after installing cygwin(complete) and after running configure and then make ... is there anywhere i can look that i havent looked? |
| 17:31.14 | birdmun | for help that is |
| 17:36.38 | birdmun | i guess it would be good if there was living being here |
| 17:40.09 | ``Erik | O.o |
| 17:40.29 | ``Erik | <-- doesn't know if it works on cygwin... what kinda errors? |
| 17:40.46 | ``Erik | (and spfdmo? springfield, mo? like, 6580X?) |
| 17:42.04 | birdmun | actually joplin mo |
| 17:42.07 | birdmun | but close enuf |
| 17:42.14 | birdmun | hour and a half |
| 17:42.18 | birdmun | maybe hour |
| 17:43.33 | birdmun | just a sec lemme see if i can get thru make and i will try posting ... it complains alot about hooks and some variables being defined more than once |
| 17:45.05 | birdmun | not that running make is a quick thing to do lol |
| 17:48.23 | birdmun | damn forgot to pipe the output to a txt file |
| 17:58.48 | birdmun | a great deal of the errors are prefaced w/ a tk |
| 18:01.41 | birdmun | am i to guess that the tk lib or some such item did not get installed properly? |
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| 18:09.39 | birdmun | DOH! |
| 18:09.45 | birdmun | wrong window |
| 18:22.46 | ``Erik | libtk is built along with the system if necessary, in src/other/libtk |
| 18:23.09 | ``Erik | it might be that the libtk it's trying to build is the unix variant instead of the windows variant... I don't do windows, so'z I d'no |
| 18:23.20 | ``Erik | <-- lived in springfield for 8 yrs, went to smsu |
| 18:23.42 | ``Erik | actually, nixa for a bit, then springfield, near battlefield for most of it |
| 18:36.26 | brlcad | birdmun: cygwin should work, though I haven't tested in a few months |
| 18:37.11 | birdmun | i wish i knew how to make it work |
| 18:37.13 | brlcad | it might not be a clean build though shouldn't take much to get it |
| 18:37.19 | birdmun | currently going to mssu |
| 18:37.31 | brlcad | what's the error(s), pastebin it |
| 18:37.33 | birdmun | red headed step child to smsu i guess :P |
| 18:37.58 | birdmun | i should be able to pipe the make output to a txt file yes? |
| 18:38.11 | birdmun | just type make >> make.txt? |
| 18:38.19 | birdmun | or no? |
| 18:39.33 | brlcad | make > build.log 2>&1 |
| 18:40.12 | brlcad | or just copy/paste |
| 18:40.14 | brlcad | ~pastebin |
| 18:40.15 | ibot | hmm... pastebin is a place to paste your stuff without flooding the channel - try http://pastebin.com/, or http://pastebin.ca, or http://channels.debian.net/paste |
| 18:40.29 | brlcad | you can paste it there, then post the url here |
| 18:41.19 | birdmun | very odd ... i typed the make > ... and it seems to have hung it |
| 18:43.00 | birdmun | well ... just typed make and we are off |
| 18:43.06 | birdmun | i believe it takes about 20 mins |
| 18:44.10 | brlcad | did it fail to build, or fail to run? |
| 18:44.24 | birdmun | build ... i guess |
| 18:44.25 | brlcad | and are you just looking for a binary? or looking to build? |
| 18:44.39 | birdmun | i realize there is not a win32 binary yet |
| 18:44.47 | brlcad | actually there are |
| 18:45.05 | birdmun | ok ... |
| 18:45.09 | brlcad | we've had binaries for a couple years |
| 18:45.14 | brlcad | just don't distribute them :) |
| 18:45.17 | birdmun | ic |
| 18:45.21 | brlcad | there are issues to work out |
| 18:45.31 | brlcad | we're close to doing a full "first" release |
| 18:45.35 | birdmun | i see the topic says not stable |
| 18:46.27 | birdmun | i have dabbled in linux and am really trying to migrate to linux from windows ... just havent gotten that far yet |
| 18:47.20 | birdmun | i know i have enough knowledge to be dangerous |
| 18:47.48 | brlcad | :) |
| 18:47.58 | birdmun | i know this because i have managed to thrash my linux partition |
| 18:48.01 | brlcad | best way is to just take the plunge and install full ;) |
| 18:48.25 | birdmun | just enough that i cant figure out how to fix it or havent spent enough time to figure it out |
| 18:49.26 | birdmun | my problem so far is i use my system to play games as well and windows games on linux arent just install and run affairs |
| 18:50.55 | birdmun | although wine is coming along nicely from what i have been seeing |
| 18:56.42 | birdmun | http://pastebin.com/570668 |
| 18:56.53 | birdmun | i hope that is the link i needed to paste |
| 18:57.27 | brlcad | that's right |
| 18:57.28 | birdmun | that being after i ./configure --disable-opengl --enable-optimized |
| 18:58.42 | brlcad | hmm, it's trying to build the X11 interface to Tk |
| 18:59.05 | brlcad | do you have X11 installed in cygwin? |
| 18:59.10 | brlcad | headers and libs |
| 18:59.32 | birdmun | when i setup cygwin i installed everything except games and mail |
| 19:00.02 | birdmun | using cygwin 1.5.19-4 |
| 19:02.16 | birdmun | i have a shortcut on my desktop that is for Xserver |
| 19:02.27 | birdmun | the icon is in my system tray |
| 19:03.52 | brlcad | you can have the binary and not have the header or libs |
| 19:04.04 | brlcad | configure might have failed to find it as well |
| 19:04.15 | brlcad | can you mail your config.log? |
| 19:05.15 | birdmun | config.log will be in the brlcad dir that i was configuring in? |
| 19:05.45 | birdmun | found it |
| 19:06.34 | birdmun | sent |
| 19:06.41 | brlcad | okie dokie |
| 19:07.05 | birdmun | i wish i were more self sufficient about thi |
| 19:07.07 | birdmun | this |
| 19:17.58 | brlcad | yeah, it failed to find X11 headers and libs.. |
| 19:18.12 | brlcad | yet you do have a undefined r |
| 19:18.13 | brlcad | eference to `_XFillRectangle' |
| 19:18.23 | brlcad | er, you do have a /usr/X11R6 directory |
| 19:18.39 | brlcad | do you have /usr/X11R6/include/X11/Xlib.h ? |
| 19:18.59 | brlcad | and a /usr/X11R6/lib/libX11*something* |
| 19:20.29 | birdmun | i shall look |
| 19:21.11 | birdmun | yes on the Xlib.h |
| 19:23.19 | birdmun | no libX11*something* |
| 19:23.38 | brlcad | what's in your /usr/X11R6/lib dir? |
| 19:23.51 | birdmun | i realize that *something* was a 'wildcard' |
| 19:25.17 | birdmun | doh |
| 19:25.28 | birdmun | just a sec |
| 19:25.32 | birdmun | wrong dir |
| 19:26.15 | birdmun | i have a libX11-6.dll.a and a libX11.dll.a |
| 19:34.31 | brlcad | hmm |
| 19:34.35 | brlcad | try linking against them then |
| 19:34.52 | birdmun | beyond my minor knowledge |
| 19:34.56 | brlcad | make LIBS="/usr/X11R6/lib/libX11.dll.a" might work |
| 19:35.04 | birdmun | ok |
| 19:35.04 | brlcad | if it really is a .a |
| 19:35.10 | birdmun | it is |
| 19:35.16 | birdmun | listed anyway |
| 19:35.18 | brlcad | it's named that |
| 19:35.26 | birdmun | do i need to make clean first? |
| 19:35.32 | brlcad | i mean if it really is an archive, it'd be different if it was a dll |
| 19:35.34 | brlcad | no |
| 19:35.39 | birdmun | k |
| 19:36.41 | birdmun | its off ... i will let you know in a bit |
| 19:51.13 | birdmun | http://pastebin.com/570758 |
| 19:51.57 | birdmun | untrained eye says its something about opengl |
| 19:52.58 | birdmun | being as i used the --disable-opengl switch |
| 19:53.11 | brlcad | yeah |
| 19:53.40 | brlcad | wrong flag |
| 19:53.45 | brlcad | it's not --disable-opengl |
| 19:53.50 | brlcad | --without-opengl |
| 19:54.25 | brlcad | also when you paste errors, don't need to see the end of the errors, need to see the beginning of them ;) |
| 19:54.29 | brlcad | from the compile line down |
| 19:54.37 | brlcad | all the rest are just superfluous |
| 19:54.55 | brlcad | could be two listed, could be two thousand, the first is the only one that matters |
| 19:55.35 | birdmun | ic |
| 19:56.03 | birdmun | well i guess im going to have to work on this later ... gf is bein a pain |
| 19:56.07 | birdmun | hasta |
| 19:56.15 | birdmun | thanks for the help so far |
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| 20:39.05 | ``Erik | hmmmm |
| 20:39.56 | *** join/#brlcad Maloeran (n=maloeran@glvortex.net) | |
| 20:41.15 | ``Erik | pwn3d you like a car d00r, y0 |
| 20:41.18 | ``Erik | :D *duck* |
| 20:42.15 | Maloeran | BrlCad if you don't mind, or anyone else who would know, are the models you use generally/always made of distinct closed volumes? |
| 20:42.27 | Maloeran | Eheh erik :) |
| 20:44.36 | ``Erik | lemme go poke him for ya |
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| 20:47.32 | Maloeran | Good afternoon Justin |
| 20:47.43 | Twingy | hey |
| 20:47.50 | Twingy | I keep forgetting to send mark something |
| 20:47.52 | Maloeran | A quick question for you, if you have 7 seconds, are the models you use generally/always made of distinct closed volumes? |
| 20:48.01 | Twingy | yep |
| 20:48.05 | Maloeran | What's the something, if I'm allowed to know? |
| 20:48.17 | Twingy | paperwork stuff that allows us to hire you |
| 20:48.30 | Twingy | been really busy >_< |
| 20:48.39 | ``Erik | making cardboard xserves |
| 20:48.43 | Twingy | and that |
| 20:48.49 | Twingy | like I said, busy |
| 20:48.50 | Maloeran | So always closed volumes... You know, keeping track of rays being inside/outside volumes as they traverse the geometry would be more reliable than discarding hits excessively close to the previous intersection |
| 20:49.21 | Twingy | and that's the conclusion I came to about a year ago |
| 20:49.21 | Maloeran | Thanks for the answer, I have to answer Mark's concerns on this |
| 20:49.40 | Maloeran | Doesn't adrt use the distance method? |
| 20:49.41 | Twingy | when I was complaining to the mgmt at a bnd meeting about this |
| 20:49.46 | Twingy | for what? |
| 20:49.56 | Maloeran | For discarding multiple "faulty" hits near edges |
| 20:50.04 | Twingy | for overlaps? |
| 20:50.07 | Maloeran | Yes |
| 20:50.40 | Maloeran | Maybe I'm just not up-to-date, it has been a while since we discussed that particular issue |
| 20:50.56 | Twingy | if you have a chunk of steel and a chunk of copper and they overlap by 1mm, then 1mm steel + 1mm copper get counted while traversing 1 mm |
| 20:51.06 | Twingy | there is no "correct" way, there is simply a "consistent" way |
| 20:51.22 | Maloeran | Okay, I'm refering to overlapping triangles, when a ray hits their common boundary |
| 20:51.40 | Twingy | an edge? |
| 20:51.43 | Maloeran | Yes |
| 20:52.04 | Twingy | um, I'm not sure what I do actually, I don't have any algorithms that bork up because of that issue |
| 20:52.19 | Twingy | I think my algorithms picks one or the other though |
| 20:52.25 | Twingy | -s |
| 20:52.35 | Twingy | triangle 'A' -or- 'B' |
| 20:52.41 | Twingy | whichever is closest |
| 20:52.42 | brlcad | Maloeran: generally, they are all solid volumes |
| 20:52.59 | Maloeran | And you detect "faulty" hits from rays hitting both triangles from the very rapproched distance of the two intersections |
| 20:53.11 | Maloeran | Thanks brlcad, so there are exceptions? |
| 20:53.17 | Twingy | I avoid stupid algorithms that try to grasp a definitive answer from like 10 rays |
| 20:53.36 | Twingy | I prefer numerically integrating over the problem to converge |
| 20:53.54 | Twingy | that completely eliminates small errors |
| 20:54.19 | Twingy | firing 10 trillion rays where 3 rays are degenerate on an edge simply doesn't matter |
| 20:54.32 | Maloeran | Well, if all volumes are definitely closed, there's another way to solve this, avoiding playing with the range of numerical errors |
| 20:54.52 | Maloeran | Ah, quite ;). Just trying to address Mark's concerns |
| 20:55.06 | Twingy | a good tesselator doesn't create overlaps |
| 20:55.33 | Maloeran | Triangles overlap because of numerical error in the ray-triangle intersections, it's unavoidable |
| 20:55.34 | Twingy | but we have crappy geometry usually |
| 20:55.35 | ``Erik | too bad we don't use good tesselators (yet) |
| 20:56.00 | Twingy | because of numerical instability in IEEE 754 actually |
| 20:56.05 | Maloeran | Right |
| 20:56.24 | Twingy | like I said, my stuff is built around not caring about LIVE -or- DIE based on 3 rays |
| 20:56.38 | Twingy | I think that's a retarded way of thinking about things |
| 20:56.42 | brlcad | it's not usually numerical error that results in the overlaps |
| 20:56.46 | Twingy | based on todays technology available |
| 20:56.52 | brlcad | it's either bonefide modeling overlaps |
| 20:57.07 | brlcad | or it's a result of inadequate or at least inconsistent tessellation |
| 20:57.23 | Maloeran | I'm refering to triangles sharing a common edge, brlcad. They are considered distinct entities, and a ray hitting right on the edge will hit both triangles |
| 20:57.33 | Twingy | btw, you got any news with you an survice? |
| 20:57.37 | ``Erik | proe->iges->proe->brlcad-bot-> ... |
| 20:57.39 | ``Erik | ? |
| 20:57.51 | Twingy | proe->iges->proe->brlcad->bot->adrt :) |
| 20:58.12 | brlcad | ``Erik: the proe converter itself does fine to tesselate overlaps all by itself |
| 20:58.13 | Maloeran | Apparently, they are almost ready to hire me to work from Canada until the visa is ready |
| 20:58.23 | Twingy | on their stuff? |
| 20:58.29 | brlcad | on their stuff |
| 20:58.51 | brlcad | they tessellate based on alignment |
| 20:58.57 | brlcad | modelers rarely align |
| 20:59.06 | Twingy | modelers rarely think |
| 20:59.10 | brlcad | so you end up with bolts in holes that don't match up |
| 20:59.18 | Maloeran | Ahah. Nice |
| 20:59.30 | brlcad | that's something I wouldn't want to care about while modeling |
| 20:59.36 | brlcad | it's a bolt, it goes in the hole |
| 21:00.08 | brlcad | the fact that rotating it 37.382 degrees might have helped the tessellator is a detail that is just a pita |
| 21:00.11 | Maloeran | brlcad, any notable exceptions on the volumes of models you work with not being closed? |
| 21:00.26 | brlcad | none come to mind |
| 21:00.44 | brlcad | unless we're just playing around with something |
| 21:00.45 | Maloeran | So this is pretty much a constant, okay. |
| 21:00.50 | brlcad | pretty much |
| 21:00.54 | brlcad | solid modeling ;) |
| 21:01.05 | Maloeran | I know :), I was wondering if there were exceptions |
| 21:01.07 | Maloeran | Thanks |
| 21:01.07 | brlcad | otherwise we could just use a generic modeler |
| 21:01.29 | Twingy | for a strong defense! |
| 21:01.49 | Twingy | you coming in today? |
| 21:01.55 | Twingy | mike keeps wandering in here |
| 21:02.02 | ``Erik | cattleprod, dude |
| 21:02.03 | brlcad | working on quantum stuff |
| 21:02.11 | Twingy | I got no cattleprod |
| 21:02.26 | Twingy | maybe I'll throw that broken hard drive at him |
| 21:02.36 | brlcad | get that jpeg encoding working? |
| 21:03.08 | Twingy | nyet, but I do have an algorithm I'm going to try coding up tonight |
| 21:03.22 | Twingy | I didn't get home till past 10 last night |
| 21:03.52 | Twingy | working on chucks algorithm |
| 21:06.07 | brlcad | heh, that'd make for a nice book/paper |
| 21:06.13 | brlcad | "chuck's algorithm" |
| 21:06.18 | Twingy | yep |
| 21:06.37 | brlcad | "bob's postulate" |
| 21:06.49 | brlcad | "ed's conjecture" |
| 21:06.57 | Twingy | "justin's color maker thingy" |
| 21:07.14 | brlcad | woowwwoo woo knyuck knyuck knyuck |
| 21:07.21 | Twingy | pjy would love reading those |
| 21:07.24 | Twingy | pjt |
| 21:07.31 | Twingy | pidgjit |
| 21:08.09 | ``Erik | I wonder what he'd do if we started calling him pidjit |
| 21:08.31 | Twingy | good question |
| 21:08.36 | Twingy | he seems to fire people when they do good stuff |
| 21:08.42 | Twingy | maybe you'd get a raise? *scratches head* |
| 21:09.23 | ``Erik | heh, opposed to "you're fired!" it'd be "you're mgmt!" |
| 21:09.47 | Twingy | haha |
| 21:09.57 | Twingy | I might get division chief for that one |
| 21:10.26 | Maloeran | Eheh. By the way Justin, for a manager, Mark did surprise me in his reply regarding the ray-tracer's specifications |
| 21:10.42 | Twingy | hrm? |
| 21:11.43 | Maloeran | He's just more knowledgeable on the technical stuff than I expected, he saw the potential flaw of rays hitting both triangles sharing an edge |
| 21:11.52 | Twingy | ah |
| 21:12.05 | ``Erik | probably cuz it's been an issue of great discussion for a while now? :) |
| 21:12.16 | Twingy | for oh say, the last 25 years? |
| 21:12.26 | ``Erik | the dreaded "overlap" spew |
| 21:12.36 | Maloeran | Oh? :) Anyway it's solved, it was just not present in the specs draft |
| 21:12.37 | Twingy | lee likes to babble about that |
| 21:12.47 | Twingy | okie |
| 21:13.07 | ``Erik | and the final line of the spec is "it ain't rocket science" |
| 21:13.08 | ``Erik | ? |
| 21:13.08 | ``Erik | :D |
| 21:13.28 | Twingy | hehehe |
| 21:13.33 | Twingy | *kaboom* |
| 21:17.01 | Maloeran | It's there if you ever want to take a look, Justin : http://www.rayforce.net/manpages/ A first draft |
| 21:18.01 | ``Erik | heh, kinda GL-ey |
| 21:18.48 | Maloeran | Quite |
| 21:19.10 | ``Erik | being able to deal with infiniband or myrinet without using the tcp/ip wrapper would probably be useful, no? |
| 21:19.52 | ``Erik | strawberry sundaes? I think raspberry is a better choice :D |
| 21:20.07 | Maloeran | That's what I thought, yes. It involves throwing all the low-level packets into the hands of the user, but I suppose that's the best solution |
| 21:20.17 | Maloeran | Oh, absolutely :) |
| 21:20.53 | ``Erik | those generated from roff? |
| 21:21.36 | ``Erik | rtBuild, RT_HINT_FASTEST_BUILD, 'performance' should probably be singular |
| 21:22.31 | ``Erik | heh, sed -i.bak s/erformances/erformance/g * |
| 21:22.31 | ``Erik | o.O |
| 21:22.32 | Maloeran | Ah yes, I still make this error. Thanks |
| 21:22.44 | ``Erik | np :) |
| 21:23.14 | ``Erik | "zero pointer"? a NULL? |
| 21:24.19 | Maloeran | I prefer the use of zero, personal preference. People tend to forget the shortcuts from the fact that NULL is zero, bitwise arithmetics on multiple pointers and so on |
| 21:24.29 | Maloeran | In the C standard, it's defined as the same thing anyway |
| 21:25.46 | ``Erik | hm, is NULL actually guaranteed to be 0x0? I didn't think it was |
| 21:25.46 | ``Erik | just like EXIT_SUCCESS isn't guaranteed to be 0, though I've never seen it otherwise |
| 21:26.46 | Maloeran | NULL isn't garanteed to be 0x0, but assigning 0x0 to a pointer garantees it to be the equivalent of NULL... Go figure :p |
| 21:30.51 | Twingy | nil |
| 21:31.19 | Twingy | ``Erik, I feel like resuming my work on BAD |
| 21:31.21 | ``Erik | nil is a good language agnostic term :) |
| 21:31.29 | ``Erik | ok, do you need help interpretting? |
| 21:31.34 | Twingy | nah |
| 21:31.38 | ``Erik | aight |
| 21:31.42 | Twingy | actually, I don't recall at this point |
| 21:31.51 | Twingy | but I probly won't look at it today |
| 21:32.01 | ``Erik | well, you need 3 algorithms in place to do it "for real" |
| 21:32.05 | Twingy | yep |
| 21:32.25 | ``Erik | and I have documentation and now reference code (java) for all 3 |
| 21:33.26 | ``Erik | neo over there coded it up... heh, he's been wearing big muff earphones with his ipod all freakin' day :) |
| 21:34.04 | Twingy | haha |
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| 21:34.45 | ``Erik | adrt vl stuff was listed as "cancelled" at the ttm |
| 21:34.57 | ``Erik | fyi |
| 21:35.05 | Twingy | so? :) |
| 21:35.39 | ``Erik | okie, just a minor detail, anything you do will be unexpected, so you have some cover from the magnifying glass |
| 21:41.23 | Twingy | nah |
| 21:41.27 | Twingy | that's why I do it off the clock :) |
| 21:55.41 | Twingy | hrm |
| 21:55.49 | Twingy | mike was explaining how his trigger guard gets cold |
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| 01:47.36 | ``Erik | meh |
| 02:51.31 | pra5ad_ | time |
| 02:51.35 | pra5ad_ | %time |
| 02:51.44 | pra5ad_ | ibot, time? |
| 02:51.46 | ibot | extra, extra, read all about it, time is 1 dimensional, or everlasting, an illusion, or 2006.02.25 2:51:46 GMT |
| 03:16.56 | pra5ad_ | ibot, time? |
| 03:16.58 | ibot | You are educated stupid and therefore too dumb to understand nature's perfect time cube! (2006.02.25 3:16:58 GMT) |
| 03:17.02 | pra5ad_ | ack |
| 03:24.58 | brlcad | heh |
| 03:38.12 | pra5ad_ | gl tomorrow |
| 03:38.16 | pra5ad_ | bai |
| 04:36.37 | tegtmeye | ibot, time? |
| 04:36.39 | ibot | You are educated stupid and therefore too dumb to understand nature's perfect time cube! (2006.02.25 4:36:39 GMT) |
| 05:32.44 | CIA-5 | BRL-CAD: 03johnranderson * 10brlcad/src/conv/g-dxf.c: now always outputs 4 vertices per 3DFACE |
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| 11:21.47 | cobbaut_ | brlcad: thx for the echo .pix to .pnm tip, it works! |
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| 17:38.50 | brlcad | cobbaut: yes, sometimes useful -- pix-png worked as well I presume? |
| 17:43.43 | CIA-5 | BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/TODO: test out float-equal |
| 19:54.41 | birdmun | well i came back to see if i could get somewhere today ... I managed to copy and paste error logs from my attempted make using cygwin ... anyone that could help? |
| 21:11.56 | cobbaut | brlcad:.pnm is a good solution, so i didn't try pix-png...btw it's not in debian stable ;-) |
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| 21:27.49 | cobbaut | ibot time |
| 21:27.52 | ibot | from memory, time is 1 dimensional, or everlasting, an illusion, or 2006.02.25 21:27:52 GMT |
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| 23:34.38 | brlcad | cobbaut: pix-png is a brl-cad tool |
| 23:35.31 | brlcad | pix-png is the "official" answer fwiw, the pnm cat is just a nifty trick |
| 23:58.56 | cobbaut | oops...ok |
| 23:59.27 | brlcad | there are a slew of pix-* and *-pix tools |
| 23:59.36 | brlcad | for converting to/from various formats |
| 00:00.20 | brlcad | pix-[tab][tab] in bash will give a list of exporters, drop of the - for a list of pix tools |
| 00:00.29 | brlcad | s/of the/off the/ |
| 00:01.44 | cobbaut | yes, i just noticed...sorry for not trying the obvious :-/ |
| 00:03.19 | brlcad | pix-fb will display then, -F/dev/Xl -w640 -n480, etc |
| 00:03.28 | brlcad | er, s/then/them/ |
| 00:03.44 | brlcad | should be manpages for most/all of them |
| 00:05.46 | cobbaut | it works! pix-png is easier than the echo hack ;-) |
| 00:06.33 | cobbaut | any idea why the script i posted on the forum misplaces objects ? |
| 00:06.54 | brlcad | the script didn't error for me |
| 00:06.59 | brlcad | was it supposed to? |
| 00:07.39 | cobbaut | it puts the 135degree wall in another place |
| 00:08.04 | cobbaut | i can reproduce it with screenshots if you like |
| 00:08.24 | brlcad | ah, no I'll take your word on it |
| 00:08.34 | brlcad | i presumed it was going to error, not simply work incorrectly |
| 00:08.39 | cobbaut | i'm useing 7.6.4 |
| 00:08.49 | cobbaut | no, it doesn't error |
| 00:13.00 | brlcad | okie, i'll give it another try then |
| 00:14.15 | pra5ad_ | sean |
| 00:14.16 | pra5ad_ | u win? |
| 00:18.44 | brlcad | across my weight class, yep |
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| 01:18.36 | pra5ad_ | what was max? |
| 01:18.50 | pra5ad_ | and win by how much? |
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| 03:06.06 | ``Erik | O.o |
| 04:10.48 | PrezKennedy | o.0 |
| 04:25.30 | brlcad | 270, pretty sure I could have done 275 |
| 04:25.51 | brlcad | three others peaked at 265 |
| 04:27.59 | ``Erik | what kinda lift? |
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| 05:50.43 | brlcad | bench press |
| 07:34.41 | birdmun | is there life here? |
| 08:02.00 | birdmun | 42? |
| 08:09.49 | pra5ad_ | =) |
| 08:13.41 | birdmun | worth a shot |
| 08:14.11 | birdmun | so do you think i could find any help w/ brlcad this time of day? |
| 08:15.08 | pra5ad_ | sometimes |
| 08:15.18 | pra5ad_ | its 3am here |
| 08:15.31 | birdmun | 2 here |
| 08:15.38 | birdmun | am |
| 08:17.49 | pra5ad_ | *shrug* |
| 08:19.08 | brlcad | crazy talk |
| 08:19.17 | birdmun | crazy? |
| 08:19.47 | brlcad | there's plenty of time to sleep when we're dead |
| 08:20.06 | birdmun | i did finally get a list of errors that doing a make in cygwin generates |
| 08:20.40 | brlcad | did you add the LIBS and CFLAGS/CPPFLAGS to the X11 include dir? |
| 08:21.07 | birdmun | not the c*flags no |
| 08:22.11 | brlcad | if I recall correctly, you had a /usr/X11R6 |
| 08:22.12 | birdmun | i could send the email i drafted to send when i managed to catch you again |
| 08:22.15 | birdmun | yes |
| 08:22.24 | brlcad | run a make clean |
| 08:22.32 | brlcad | then can rerun configure |
| 08:22.41 | brlcad | what was your origianl configure line? |
| 08:23.04 | birdmun | ./configure --without-opengl --enable-optimized |
| 08:24.11 | brlcad | mkay, so try ./configure --without-openGgl --enable-optimized CPPFLAGS=-I/usr/X11R6/include LIBS=-lX11 LDFLAGS=-L/usr/X11R6/lib |
| 08:24.28 | brlcad | er, typo in there on openGgl, otherwise should be good |
| 08:26.09 | birdmun | so what do i read to learn what flags i should try |
| 08:28.04 | brlcad | ah, and before you run configure, either run autogen.sh again or rm -rf *cache* |
| 08:28.15 | birdmun | doh |
| 08:28.44 | brlcad | there shouldn't be any flags to add, though INSTALL and ./configure --help cover the options |
| 08:28.53 | birdmun | well that configure only took 3 mins 11 secs |
| 08:29.21 | brlcad | you shouldn't need to add those CPPFLAGS, LDFLAGS, LIBS lines.. something is wrong with the autoconf X11 detection that came with cygwin |
| 08:29.37 | birdmun | ic |
| 08:30.02 | birdmun | running autogen.sh |
| 08:30.15 | birdmun | shouldnt take long no? |
| 08:30.51 | birdmun | i admit to not having spent much time installing software from source |
| 08:33.02 | birdmun | so i need to now use the long configure line or just try ./configure? |
| 08:33.07 | brlcad | give that a run, leave a note how it went and I'll reply in a few hours :) |
| 08:33.10 | brlcad | the long configure line |
| 08:33.19 | birdmun | alright |
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| 09:22.37 | birdmun | sorry brlcad Im off to bed I will let you know how it turns out later this morning |
| 15:35.25 | birdmun | well I'm back ... it did make |
| 15:35.25 | birdmun | after an hour :) |
| 15:44.59 | ``Erik | heh |
| 15:52.16 | birdmun | dont know how long after i started the make before it finished |
| 15:59.52 | ``Erik | it should say after the build |
| 16:00.12 | ``Erik | there're timing scripts tied into the build system |
| 16:02.54 | birdmun | it did |
| 16:03.00 | birdmun | 1 hr 9 mins |
| 16:03.50 | birdmun | what i meant to say was that after i went to bed i dont know how long it ran |
| 16:04.09 | birdmun | sounds like a fairly hardy system :P |
| 16:04.36 | ``Erik | my home box takes like 10 minutes, it's a 1.2ghz athlon |
| 16:04.47 | birdmun | i wonder if it wouldnt run faster in linux |
| 16:04.50 | ``Erik | winderz is horribly horribly slow at fork, and make is fork heavy |
| 16:05.07 | ``Erik | big builds in cygwin take forever... small ones, too :D |
| 16:05.13 | birdmun | my sys is a 2.1g athlon gig of ram |
| 16:05.51 | ``Erik | it pissed me off enough that several years ago, I set up a cross compiler on fbsd to generate mingw PE binaries (was working on a video game, had to support the winiots on the team) |
| 16:07.56 | ``Erik | (on a fast forking operating system with like more than 500mhz speed, disk access should be the bottleneck...) |
| 16:09.07 | ``Erik | heh |
| 16:09.32 | birdmun | forking i dont understand |
| 16:10.03 | ``Erik | um, I think windows calls it something like ExecuteProcess |
| 16:10.23 | birdmun | *dumb look* |
| 16:10.34 | birdmun | *blank stare* even |
| 16:10.42 | ``Erik | heh, it's not important |
| 16:10.54 | ``Erik | "make" is very slow on windows |
| 16:10.58 | ``Erik | that's teh bottom line |
| 16:11.01 | birdmun | lol |
| 16:11.27 | birdmun | the upside is it did complete |
| 16:14.41 | birdmun | after rearranging the office and running make install it will be time to figure out how to use the software |
| 16:15.33 | ``Erik | 'mged' is the graphical thing, but there're like 400 and something command line tools, too |
| 16:15.46 | ``Erik | there's an introductory manual floating around, I believe |
| 16:16.02 | birdmun | i believe you are correct |
| 16:17.37 | birdmun | well i need to get this office taken care of |
| 16:19.22 | *** join/#brlcad cobbaut (n=paul@238-165.240.81.adsl.skynet.be) | |
| 16:48.56 | brlcad | needs to be an "intro to the whole package" tutorial, that talks about all the most useful tools |
| 16:49.09 | brlcad | manual 1 just doesn't cut it |
| 16:49.16 | brlcad | and 2 just focuses on mged |
| 16:54.02 | cobbaut | ah, good evening... |
| 16:54.31 | cobbaut | i don't know enough about brlcad to write a more complete tutorial :-( |
| 17:00.17 | CIA-5 | BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/TODO: write an introduction to brl-cad document that overviews the primary tools and how they can be used together. |
| 19:59.58 | justin_ | I just had the most ghetto idea for changing channels |
| 20:00.11 | justin_ | use "eject" to bump the channel changer |
| 20:05.34 | *** join/#brlcad pier (n=pier@151.56.245.233) | |
| 20:18.06 | brlcad | heh |
| 20:18.09 | brlcad | that's so bad |
| 21:28.02 | birdmun | mged is supposed to be in the /usr/brlcad/bin directory correct? |
| 21:36.18 | brlcad | yep |
| 21:36.25 | brlcad | along with a lot of other apps |
| 22:56.33 | ``Erik | cobbaut: if you started writing stuff, those of us with the knowledge but less free time would surely chime in and make suggestions/corrections |
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| 00:08.29 | cobbaut | Erik: i put a humble pdf on the sourceforge forum |
| 00:09.23 | cobbaut | this is the link http://cobbaut.be/byExample.pdf |
| 00:09.59 | cobbaut | but it is more a "by example", and not so much a tutorial, since i only know about 5 percent of brl-cad |
| 00:10.17 | cobbaut | any suggestions are welcome... |
| 00:10.55 | cobbaut | but not now...it is time to go to bed (past 1 am here) |
| 00:11.01 | cobbaut | 'nigth |
| 00:24.09 | ``Erik | whoa, cool |
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| 02:04.27 | ``Erik | "oh, no one at the new yorker has an anus" heh |
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| 02:56.20 | tegtmeye | anyone remember how to get the name of the appliation that is currently runnning? ie yourself |
| 02:58.22 | brlcad | argv[0] |
| 03:00.39 | tegtmeye | lol, besides that. I thought that there was a system call that would give you that |
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| 03:02.13 | brlcad | depends how cross-platform you want to be |
| 03:03.20 | brlcad | iff your system supports getprogname(), you can use that -- you need to setprogname() unless you presume bsd-style behavior (where it's run automatically for you before main()) |
| 03:03.25 | tegtmeye | very. need it for a library that gcc calls |
| 03:04.06 | brlcad | those two are basically equiv to writing your own little function that stashes the argv[0] value in a static/global |
| 03:05.45 | tegtmeye | problem is, I don't have access to the application source |
| 03:06.24 | tegtmeye | so I can't stash argv[0], maybe I was thinking that getprogname was posix, been a long time... |
| 03:07.29 | brlcad | afaik, there's not a posix way to get at it |
| 03:07.58 | brlcad | you don't have any access to the original argv? |
| 03:11.44 | tegtmeye | no. I'm building a library that does some dynamic analysis. So the uses sets up some compiler switches in gcc and links this in. |
| 03:12.45 | tegtmeye | So, in general, I don;t have access to the source and I don't want to have them call mylib::init(argc,argv) or whatever |
| 03:14.49 | brlcad | you can make your own routine that tries the various platform-specific ways |
| 03:15.06 | brlcad | there's a win32 function, i'd have to look it up |
| 03:15.33 | ``Erik | (define-syntax mycond (syntax-rules (else) ((_ (else a)) a) ((_ (p a)) (if p a)) ((_ (p a) r ...) (if p a (mycond r ...))))) |
| 03:15.35 | ``Erik | sweet |
| 03:17.01 | ``Erik | and, of course, the corellary... (define-syntax myif (syntax-rules () ((_ p t e) (cond (p t) (else e))))) |
| 03:17.09 | tegtmeye | I thought there was a way to find out from the pid. The info has to be stored somewhere if 'ps' is getting it. |
| 03:17.11 | ``Erik | *flex* |
| 03:17.16 | ``Erik | getpid() |
| 03:17.34 | brlcad | getprogname'll work on all the bsd, getexecname() on solaris iirc, can query /proc on linux |
| 03:17.48 | ``Erik | ooh, heh |
| 03:18.13 | brlcad | i believe there is a global that glibc provides as well |
| 03:18.41 | ``Erik | um, there was a path expansion function that you could feed argv[0] to I think, I don't recall the name |
| 03:19.31 | brlcad | program_invocation_short_name is one of the globals potentially available iirc |
| 03:19.48 | tegtmeye | hmmm... |
| 03:23.32 | brlcad | /proc/self/cmdline |
| 03:25.36 | tegtmeye | no /proc on mac (assuming bsd as well) |
| 03:30.04 | brlcad | mac has getprogname |
| 03:30.10 | brlcad | there's no single-shot answer |
| 03:30.18 | brlcad | i'm saying you can use the combination of them all |
| 03:30.37 | brlcad | that should cover just about everyone |
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| 03:39.55 | ``Erik | hrm, stat(NULL,&sb); does not give anything... useful. |
| 03:40.12 | tegtmeye | is getprogname on Linux? |
| 03:40.25 | tegtmeye | -rather who doesn;t have it |
| 03:41.03 | ``Erik | dlinfo on null might be handy |
| 03:42.18 | brlcad | getprogname isn't on linux, it's bsd |
| 03:43.01 | brlcad | you'd need configure tests for the various methods |
| 03:43.13 | tegtmeye | getexecname on Linux? |
| 03:43.20 | brlcad | getexecname on solaris :) |
| 03:44.03 | brlcad | program_invocation_short_name is provided by glibc |
| 03:47.00 | tegtmeye | cool, thanks... |
| 03:47.32 | tegtmeye | <poof> |
| 04:01.05 | CIA-5 | BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/TODO: wrote a manpage for the benchmark tool. need to add the alternates to bu_getprogname, separate into new file too. |
| 04:08.51 | CIA-5 | BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/bench/run.sh: doesn't test the compiler, tests a system |
| 04:17.39 | *** join/#brlcad grumbel (n=grumbel@i5387C5C0.versanet.de) | |
| 04:27.54 | CIA-5 | BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/bench/benchmark.1: initial manual page, pulling content from the existing script contents and word-smithing some clean-up |
| 04:29.58 | CIA-5 | BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/bench/Makefile.am: install and provide the new benchmark manpage |
| 04:43.13 | CIA-5 | BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/mged/setup.c: |
| 04:43.13 | CIA-5 | BRL-CAD: tried to move the PATH modifying block to after Tcl is initialized, but it still |
| 04:43.13 | CIA-5 | BRL-CAD: seems to be causing problems for people compiling on ubuntu for some unknown |
| 04:43.13 | CIA-5 | BRL-CAD: reason. disable the block for now until it can be investigated more fully, |
| 04:43.13 | CIA-5 | BRL-CAD: maybe have to resort to a configure test. |
| 05:05.28 | CIA-5 | BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/conv/g-dxf.c: add a comment about adding the fourth vertex for 3DFACES, massive ws cleanup/consistency |
| 05:22.54 | CIA-5 | BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/conv/ (8 files): a variety of warning quellings, missing stdlib, calls to exit with a negative, ws. |
| 05:23.37 | CIA-5 | BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/NEWS: jra fixed g-dxf compatibility export issue |
| 05:24.15 | CIA-5 | BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/NEWS: added manpage for benchmark |
| 05:52.54 | CIA-5 | BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/conv/ (10 files in 5 dirs): quell warnings, missing stdlib.h, calls to exit with a negative, ws. |
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| 06:05.32 | birdmun | i asked hours ago about where mged is ... problem is i dont see it in the usr/brlcad/bin dir |
| 06:06.44 | pra5ad_ | did u make install? |
| 06:09.11 | birdmun | yes |
| 06:09.34 | brlcad | what's in your /usr/brlcad/bin dir? |
| 06:09.41 | brlcad | lot of binaries? |
| 06:09.51 | pra5ad_ | yes |
| 06:10.01 | birdmun | 189 exe files |
| 06:10.07 | birdmun | 188 |
| 06:10.08 | brlcad | eek |
| 06:10.28 | brlcad | should be over 400 |
| 06:10.31 | birdmun | i guess that means make install didnt work |
| 06:10.33 | birdmun | ? |
| 06:10.34 | brlcad | how'd you build? |
| 06:10.41 | brlcad | sounds like make install failed part way |
| 06:10.50 | brlcad | or make failed, so make install failed |
| 06:10.58 | birdmun | make finished |
| 06:10.59 | pra5ad_ | is there a flag for ls that produces a filecount? |
| 06:11.06 | pra5ad_ | or do i have to gawk |
| 06:11.11 | brlcad | ls -la1 | wc |
| 06:11.28 | pra5ad_ | 351 |
| 06:11.41 | brlcad | eh, that's not right either :P |
| 06:11.44 | pra5ad_ | 913 |
| 06:12.02 | brlcad | nor is that |
| 06:12.03 | pra5ad_ | woops |
| 06:12.15 | pra5ad_ | 434 |
| 06:12.24 | brlcad | that's more like it |
| 06:12.40 | brlcad | 438 is current iirc |
| 06:12.53 | birdmun | after the make worked properly i should be able to go back to the dir and just run make install yes? |
| 06:12.56 | pra5ad_ | 436 |
| 06:13.12 | brlcad | sure, presuming make worked |
| 06:13.19 | brlcad | you should be able to go back and run make again too |
| 06:13.23 | brlcad | and it should just iterate |
| 06:14.25 | birdmun | when make finished it listed how long it took to make ... i ran make benchmark ... i dont recall any errors there |
| 06:14.44 | brlcad | yes, but did make list any errors |
| 06:15.25 | brlcad | and did mged compile |
| 06:15.31 | brlcad | ls -la src/mged/mged |
| 06:16.11 | brlcad | ls -la src/mged/.libs/*mged* |
| 06:16.31 | birdmun | src should be in the usr/brlcad/ dir? |
| 06:16.39 | brlcad | no |
| 06:17.19 | pra5ad_ | Components. American components, Russian components, ALL MADE IN TAIWAN! |
| 06:17.29 | birdmun | well mged is listed in the src/mged/ dir |
| 06:17.40 | brlcad | armageddon |
| 06:17.59 | brlcad | russian space station cosmonaut |
| 06:18.25 | pra5ad_ | i really enjoy stupid movies |
| 06:18.59 | brlcad | birdmun: well that's a good sign at least |
| 06:19.07 | brlcad | so maybe make install is failing for some reason |
| 06:19.08 | birdmun | i have nothing listed in the .libs dir tho |
| 06:19.21 | brlcad | hmm |
| 06:19.28 | brlcad | what was the first ls -la output |
| 06:20.39 | birdmun | -rwxr-xr-x 1 birdmun None 15319388 Feb 26 03:38 src/mged/mged |
| 06:20.54 | brlcad | hmm, so it built it static |
| 06:20.59 | brlcad | is this cygwin? |
| 06:21.01 | birdmun | yes |
| 06:21.04 | brlcad | ahh, right |
| 06:21.11 | brlcad | okay |
| 06:21.18 | brlcad | libtoolism |
| 06:21.51 | brlcad | so try make install again, watch for errors |
| 06:22.49 | birdmun | k |
| 06:25.39 | CIA-5 | BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/libdm/clip.c: revert the clipping plane modifications for now until they can be tested better |
| 06:28.24 | birdmun | now i see an error ... no space left on device |
| 06:28.38 | birdmun | ah ha |
| 06:28.48 | birdmun | 10 meg free space left on that drive |
| 06:29.01 | birdmun | there was 640 left hours ago |
| 06:31.27 | brlcad | heh |
| 06:31.31 | brlcad | yep |
| 06:31.41 | brlcad | building the whole package static is going to be.. big |
| 06:31.49 | brlcad | probably a gig |
| 06:31.54 | birdmun | now he tells me |
| 06:32.08 | brlcad | maybe not |
| 06:32.13 | brlcad | maybe just a few hundred |
| 06:32.23 | birdmun | already over 680 |
| 06:32.26 | brlcad | but you also have the build there, all the object files, libraries |
| 06:34.25 | birdmun | i cleared up some space and am trying again |
| 06:34.29 | birdmun | 500 meg |
| 06:53.37 | birdmun | make install finished w/o errors |
| 06:54.40 | birdmun | i have 434 files |
| 06:55.18 | birdmun | 1.1 gig |
| 06:55.58 | brlcad | heh |
| 06:56.01 | brlcad | excellent |
| 06:56.33 | birdmun | well im heading to bed ... although it may or may not yet be working |
| 07:02.32 | CIA-5 | BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/include/rle.h: include stdlib.h, quell warnings in libutahrle and elsewhere |
| 07:10.12 | CIA-5 | BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/libbu/association.c: need stdlib.h for exit() |
| 07:17.46 | CIA-5 | BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/libbu/bomb.c: need stdlib.h for exit(), flush streams before abort. |
| 07:20.10 | CIA-5 | BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/libbu/color.c: include stdlib.h anyways, but change the exit to a bu_bomb |
| 07:25.44 | CIA-5 | BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/libbu/fopen_uniq.c: stdlib.h for exit() |
| 07:43.21 | CIA-5 | BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/libbu/ (10 files): quell warnings, need stdlib.h for exit routines |
| 07:44.42 | CIA-5 | BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/libbn/bn_tcl.c: common file size is unsigned |
| 07:50.40 | CIA-5 | BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/libbn/vert_tree.c: bomb instead of exiting while processing the vertex nodes |
| 07:54.02 | CIA-5 | BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/librt/g_rpc.c: no need to test for null, libbu memory management guarantees non-null -- include stdlib.h anyways |
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| 08:20.43 | CIA-5 | BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/librt/ (12 files): stdlib.h warning quelling, conversions to bu_bomb instead of aborting |
| 08:32.25 | CIA-5 | BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/libfb/ (if_debug.c if_null.c if_remote.c): stdlib.h warning quelling |
| 08:34.58 | CIA-5 | BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/liboptical/ (sh_billboard.c sh_fbm.c sh_xxx.c): stdlib.h warning quelling |
| 09:11.01 | CIA-5 | BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/ (fbserv/fbserv.c rt/main.c): stdlib.h warning quelling |
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| 10:09.11 | CIA-5 | BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/ (60 files in 16 dirs): stdlib.h and exit() |
| 10:25.09 | CIA-5 | BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/liboptical/sh_billboard.c: unsigned long image lengths, quell warnings when passing to sizing funcs |
| 10:25.16 | CIA-5 | BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/liboptical/sh_fbm.c: need string.h for memcpy |
| 10:33.45 | CIA-5 | BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/lgt/lgt.c: unbreak lgt, #endif left in the wrong place. nix the TRUE/FALSE stuff while we're in here too |
| 10:38.02 | CIA-5 | BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/fbserv/fbserv.c: delint the socklent |
| 12:07.11 | cobbaut | thx ``Erik |
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| 22:10.57 | Loes | hi |
| 22:19.33 | Loes | can anyone tell me how (or where) to start with brlcad? |
| 22:27.05 | brlcad | Loes: howdy and yes |
| 22:27.20 | brlcad | http://brlcad.org, Documents section, docs 1 and 2 |
| 22:27.42 | brlcad | run mged on the command line to get started with the gui modeler, though there is a lot more to it |
| 22:29.00 | Loes | i will try that, found out the installation didn't work |
| 22:30.02 | brlcad | oh? |
| 22:30.24 | Loes | i'm new to linux |
| 22:30.41 | Loes | i tried it on my mac |
| 22:30.51 | Loes | there it worked |
| 22:31.15 | Loes | just going to try again :) |
| 22:31.51 | brlcad | okie dokie |
| 22:41.07 | Loes | compiling from source isn't working |
| 22:41.35 | Loes | if I download the binaries, do I have to put them somewhere specific? |
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| 22:48.37 | ``Erik | convention seems to be /usr/brlcad |
| 22:52.01 | Loes | it's working! :) |
| 22:53.09 | ``Erik | swank |
| 23:20.31 | Loes | is it possible to make a 2D drawing from a 3D object? |
| 23:22.16 | ``Erik | fundamentally, it's a trivial operation... I d'no if brlcad has the intrinsics, tho |
| 23:22.55 | ``Erik | um, actually |
| 23:22.58 | ``Erik | there's an app that does it |
| 23:23.05 | ``Erik | "line drawing", uhhh, ron wrote it I think |
| 23:23.14 | Loes | I saw there is a possibility, but I'm looking for something where I can add dimensions and comments afterward |
| 23:23.24 | ``Erik | rtedge |
| 23:29.34 | brlcad | heh |
| 23:29.38 | brlcad | that took a while |
| 23:29.44 | ``Erik | ? |
| 23:29.51 | brlcad | rtwizard too, for more complex imagery |
| 23:30.08 | brlcad | took a while to remember "rtedge" |
| 23:30.20 | ``Erik | I had to look in the bin dir until I spotted it :( |
| 23:30.50 | brlcad | Loes: there's not an automatic means to add dimensions yet, there's a tool planned for that though -- for now, that's more easily handled in an image processing application |
| 23:31.09 | ``Erik | dude, all I did was rewrite the build system before I got shovelled to another project, I know very little about the sw... heh |
| 23:31.57 | Loes | I see you can export it to other formats |
| 23:32.03 | brlcad | tsk tsk |
| 23:32.28 | brlcad | yes, there a 3d export and 2d export formats with various implications |
| 23:33.15 | Loes | so I could export it to f.e. autocad, which has that feature |
| 23:36.18 | brlcad | that you theoretically could |
| 23:37.34 | Loes | all I'm looking for, is a program that can replace solid edge/autocad etc |
| 23:37.51 | Loes | do you think brlcad can doo that? |
| 23:38.35 | Loes | or is it designed for other purposes? |
| 23:38.55 | brlcad | fyi, there are certain versions of autocad that don't parse their own format according to their own specification, our next release will work around it and output something more flexible to their parsers |
| 23:39.08 | brlcad | it can, depends entirely on the purpose |
| 23:39.27 | Loes | i'm a student mechanical engineering |
| 23:39.33 | brlcad | the primary history/focus of the package of the years was solid modeling for the purpose of performing analysis/simulations |
| 23:39.51 | Loes | and i'm using mac, so it's very hard to find 3d software for that |
| 23:40.10 | brlcad | we've got quite a mech-e following |
| 23:40.29 | brlcad | brl-cad's not a good drafter, ala autocad |
| 23:40.31 | Loes | i must say, your program looks good |
| 23:40.47 | Loes | (not easy though :) ) |
| 23:40.52 | brlcad | hence limited 2d drafting support, parametrics, dimensions, etc |
| 23:41.10 | brlcad | otherwise, it is a full-fledged solid modeling system, mature and in production use |
| 23:41.33 | brlcad | and it's open source and free as in beer and speech |
| 23:41.50 | Loes | indeed |
| 23:41.58 | Loes | that's nice (for a student) |
| 23:41.59 | brlcad | so anyone can help improve it, become one of the devs |
| 23:42.38 | brlcad | it's ideal for certain students, imo -- i would have loved having it as a base for my computer graphics and vision work in college |
| 23:42.56 | brlcad | even single processing |
| 00:47.45 | pra5ad_ | lol brlcad |
| 00:48.10 | pra5ad_ | i sent in my report to the prof last week |
| 00:48.22 | pra5ad_ | he sends it to APL's computational geometry guy |
| 00:48.45 | pra5ad_ | no word from him since (apparently he was very interested) |
| 00:49.06 | pra5ad_ | heh i'll probably see a paper on it in a couple of months |
| 01:04.22 | *** join/#brlcad tegtmeye (n=tegtmeye@pool-71-248-94-28.bltmmd.east.verizon.net) | |
| 01:18.13 | tegtmeye | brlcad, you around? |
| 01:21.33 | pra5ad_ | .. amazon is great |
| 01:21.41 | pra5ad_ | Women's Sampler |
| 01:21.41 | pra5ad_ | Average Customer Review: |
| 01:21.41 | pra5ad_ | Release Date: February 23, 2006 |
| 01:21.41 | pra5ad_ | Our Price: $25.00 |
| 01:21.41 | pra5ad_ | I Own It Not interested Rate it |
| 01:21.42 | pra5ad_ | <PROTECTED> |
| 01:22.04 | pra5ad_ | so i can have a facial while playing gta |
| 01:22.46 | *** join/#brlcad cobbaut (n=paul@238-165.240.81.adsl.skynet.be) | |
| 01:23.37 | tegtmeye | got my book today from amazon.co.uk |
| 01:23.49 | tegtmeye | saved 28$ over amazon.com |
| 01:23.53 | pra5ad_ | what book |
| 01:24.03 | tegtmeye | dino OS book |
| 01:24.06 | tegtmeye | for school |
| 01:24.20 | pra5ad_ | what school |
| 01:24.27 | tegtmeye | UD |
| 01:24.32 | pra5ad_ | phd? |
| 01:24.38 | tegtmeye | maybe:) |
| 01:25.03 | tegtmeye | you should look into it. |
| 01:25.16 | tegtmeye | Cheaper than used here in the US |
| 01:25.30 | pra5ad_ | hmm |
| 01:25.32 | tegtmeye | even after shipping |
| 01:26.21 | pra5ad_ | er |
| 01:26.36 | pra5ad_ | TNG complete: 450 pounds vs $385 |
| 01:26.54 | tegtmeye | TNG? |
| 01:27.39 | pra5ad_ | star trek: the next generation |
| 01:27.59 | tegtmeye | ah |
| 01:28.29 | pra5ad_ | perhaps i have special credit at .com |
| 01:28.44 | tegtmeye | can anyone tell me how to set -D options from the configure invoction? |
| 01:28.58 | tegtmeye | without hacking the config.h.in? |
| 01:31.12 | docelic | tegtmeye, CFLAGS="-Dsomething" ./configure |
| 01:31.57 | docelic | The actual variable might be named CFLAGS, CPPFLAGS or CXXFLAGS, depending on a few things, but you can set all thre |
| 01:32.01 | docelic | three* |
| 01:34.18 | tegtmeye | I thought there was a DEFS variable? |
| 01:38.05 | docelic | Well, maybe there is, but my instructions are generic, and work unless ./configure is custom-hacked |
| 01:44.44 | tegtmeye | thanks, I'm aware of how to set the flags but that isn't what I'm really looking for |
| 01:46.35 | brlcad | pra5ad_: cool, hopefully something interesting can come of it, tegtmeye: yep |
| 01:47.21 | brlcad | defines would be a preprocessor, hence CPPFLAGS |
| 01:47.54 | brlcad | brl-cad's configure also provides a --with-cppflags set of options too |
| 01:49.34 | tegtmeye | I thought that --with-... was supossed to be for including external packages;) |
| 01:50.35 | tegtmeye | Do you loose the DEFS variable when setting AC_CONFIG_HEADERS? |
| 01:50.36 | brlcad | you can indirectly include external packages using those --with-*flags options :) |
| 01:51.01 | tegtmeye | nah, just quoting the gcc docs for ARG_WITH |
| 01:51.07 | brlcad | i know |
| 01:51.25 | brlcad | i'm saying, you could twist only slightly and it still "complies" |
| 01:51.44 | brlcad | the --with options usually just set cflags/cppflags/ldflags, etc anyways too |
| 01:52.03 | brlcad | it's reaching, but it works |
| 01:52.19 | brlcad | mainly for folks that don't understand the somewhat opaque --help blather |
| 01:54.55 | tegtmeye | e> Do you loose the DEFS variable when setting AC_CONFIG_HEADERS? |
| 01:56.35 | brlcad | do you lose it? |
| 01:56.39 | brlcad | no, not really |
| 01:56.50 | brlcad | but it changes to just -DHAVE_CONFIG_H |
| 01:59.17 | tegtmeye | ah... the docs seem to gloss over this a little... I guess because no one uses it for the most part. |
| 01:59.19 | tegtmeye | thanks |
| 02:01.18 | brlcad | you don't generally use it directly |
| 02:01.22 | brlcad | automake uses it |
| 02:02.19 | tegtmeye | I know, issue is, config.h will override CFLAGS if you are trying to just override a default |
| 02:02.23 | brlcad | autoconf sets it to either all the defines or to the have_config_h define, automake just passes it along as a cppflag append |
| 02:02.58 | brlcad | override a default? |
| 02:03.01 | brlcad | like -O2 -g ? |
| 02:03.15 | tegtmeye | and when I tried to #ifdef... in config.h.in, AC_DEFINE... gets lost |
| 02:03.17 | tegtmeye | no |
| 02:03.29 | tegtmeye | eg |
| 02:03.39 | brlcad | config.h.in gets blown away |
| 02:03.45 | tegtmeye | I know |
| 02:04.35 | tegtmeye | you want a user selectable offset value for some foo your adding to the stack (not important)... |
| 02:04.58 | tegtmeye | but you want to provide a reasonable default value that you have to reference in the code |
| 02:05.40 | tegtmeye | it isn't somethign that is necessarly going to change at runtime |
| 02:05.49 | tegtmeye | but |
| 02:06.01 | tegtmeye | it needs to be user selectable at configure |
| 02:06.23 | tegtmeye | currently have --with-whatever options but seems kinda crufty |
| 02:06.43 | tegtmeye | be nice to just do |
| 02:06.55 | tegtmeye | ./configure -DSTACK_OFFSET=blah |
| 02:07.19 | brlcad | ./configure CPPFLAGS=-DSTACK_OFFSET=blah |
| 02:07.26 | tegtmeye | _but_ |
| 02:07.39 | brlcad | it you do your configure.ac right, that should work |
| 02:07.41 | tegtmeye | there has to be a default value |
| 02:07.51 | tegtmeye | if it isn;t given |
| 02:09.17 | *** join/#brlcad cobbaut_ (n=paul@28.92-200-80.adsl.skynet.be) | |
| 02:10.07 | tegtmeye | which is why I was looking for DEFS |
| 02:10.19 | brlcad | that's pretty easy, that's just a matter of tossing in a #ifndef into config.h |
| 02:10.51 | brlcad | you're limiting yourself to a version of autoheader written in the last five years or so, but .. it should work |
| 02:11.07 | tegtmeye | I tried taht but AC_DEFINE choked, maybe I'm missing something? |
| 02:11.17 | brlcad | ah |
| 02:11.29 | brlcad | ac_def is just to define something |
| 02:11.37 | brlcad | not add random foo into the header |
| 02:11.50 | brlcad | you want ah_verbatim |
| 02:11.51 | tegtmeye | go on... |
| 02:12.02 | brlcad | iirc |
| 02:12.33 | brlcad | AH_VERBATIM([STACK_OFFSET], [ |
| 02:12.41 | brlcad | #ifndef STACK_OFFSET |
| 02:12.50 | brlcad | # define STACK_OFFSET -1 |
| 02:12.53 | brlcad | #endif |
| 02:12.54 | brlcad | }) |
| 02:13.02 | brlcad | sans typo |
| 02:13.29 | tegtmeye | hmmm... missed that, in autoheader docs I guess then? |
| 02:14.04 | brlcad | autoconf docs mention it |
| 02:14.22 | brlcad | http://www.delorie.com/gnu/docs/autoconf/autoconf_30.html |
| 02:14.24 | tegtmeye | just going to say.. plain missed that...:) |
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| 04:53.06 | pra5ad_ | ibot, time |
| 04:53.07 | ibot | 2006.02.28 4:53:07 GMT |
| 04:53.17 | pra5ad_ | ibot, time est |
| 04:53.27 | pra5ad_ | well then |
| 04:59.14 | Twingy | fileserver is up |
| 05:16.18 | pra5ad_ | whats in it |
| 05:43.56 | pra5ad_ | ibot, time est |
| 05:44.05 | pra5ad_ | useless |
| 05:44.07 | pra5ad_ | ibot, time |
| 05:44.08 | ibot | You are educated stupid and therefore too dumb to understand nature's perfect time cube! (2006.02.28 5:44:08 GMT) |
| 06:47.30 | *** join/#brlcad DTRemenak (n=DTRemena@c-67-187-164-66.hsd1.ca.comcast.net) | |
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| 20:50.13 | IngMan | Hi |
| 20:54.39 | IngMan | how make gears |
| 21:00.40 | pier | tried to draw one out this afternoon |
| 21:01.16 | pier | but making a sketch turned out being very tricky |
| 23:55.05 | *** join/#brlcad PrezKennedy (n=Apathy@c-68-33-243-45.hsd1.md.comcast.net) | |
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| 00:31.11 | Twingy | mill arrived |
| 00:32.07 | archivist | mill=milling machine? |
| 00:32.50 | Twingy | yep |
| 00:33.24 | Twingy | cnc too |
| 00:33.34 | archivist | nice |
| 00:34.08 | archivist | we have a toy(educational) one here at work |
| 00:34.28 | Twingy | what brand? |
| 00:34.35 | archivist | boxford |
| 00:34.39 | Twingy | ah |
| 00:34.49 | Twingy | mine is a taig with the xlyotex steppers |
| 00:34.53 | archivist | english |
| 00:36.48 | archivist | cad>dxf>cnc is fun |
| 00:40.53 | archivist | with the occasional tool breakage |
| 00:41.47 | Twingy | I'm making my own tool path editor |
| 00:44.53 | archivist | dont let the tool dwell on path changes as the boxford does, tool spring etc leaves horrid marks |
| 00:45.06 | ``Erik | O.o |
| 00:45.49 | Twingy | erik is a tool |
| 00:46.04 | Twingy | and leaves horrid marks |
| 00:46.09 | ``Erik | on your MOM |
| 00:46.10 | ``Erik | O.o |
| 00:46.12 | Twingy | with his tar irn' |
| 00:46.16 | ``Erik | heh, wow, I feel like I'm in fifth grade |
| 00:46.34 | ``Erik | it's a tar arn, tyvm |
| 00:46.35 | Twingy | DEY TUK R JBS!@ |
| 00:47.00 | ``Erik | so you got the mill today, I presume? |
| 00:47.05 | Twingy | yes |
| 00:47.09 | ``Erik | <-- scrolls up |
| 00:47.11 | ``Erik | hurrrrrr |
| 00:47.12 | Twingy | I just unboxed it |
| 00:47.15 | ``Erik | swank |
| 00:47.18 | ``Erik | tiny, ain't it? |
| 00:47.25 | Twingy | I'm feeling rather lethargic so it's just sitting there |
| 00:47.29 | ``Erik | gonna put the c&c bits on tonight? |
| 00:47.29 | ``Erik | ah |
| 00:47.29 | Twingy | yep |
| 00:47.36 | Twingy | it's very cute $1800 toy |
| 00:47.42 | Twingy | nope |
| 00:47.51 | ``Erik | the c&c motors will move without the main motor running, right? |
| 00:48.16 | Twingy | Tekrad what hex numbers are \r and \n |
| 00:48.16 | Twingy | Topangea :-D |
| 00:48.17 | Twingy | Topangea 0x13 I think is \n |
| 00:48.19 | Twingy | KostiX i bet avr is alike in some stuff |
| 00:48.21 | Twingy | Twingy "man ascii" |
| 00:48.23 | Twingy | Topangea \r might be 0x14 or something..I don't remember |
| 00:48.25 | Twingy | _Q \r == 0x0D |
| 00:48.27 | Twingy | Topangea or maybe \r is |
| 00:48.35 | ``Erik | so you can wrap some paper around a 2x4, stick a pencil in the chuck, and try to program it to draw things to debug/test? |
| 00:48.36 | Twingy | yep |
| 00:49.02 | Twingy | heh I guess, but that's too much trouble |
| 00:49.04 | ``Erik | opposed to cutting up wood or cheap aluminum stock o.O |
| 00:49.14 | Twingy | I don't need to cut anything |
| 00:49.15 | ``Erik | do you have a micrometer? |
| 00:49.20 | Twingy | meh |
| 00:49.23 | Twingy | eyeball it y0 |
| 00:49.27 | ``Erik | heh |
| 00:49.48 | ``Erik | I don't trust your eyes to measure ten thousandths :D |
| 00:49.51 | Twingy | measure once, cut twice |
| 00:50.34 | Twingy | I'll know shortly if this junk works |
| 00:50.38 | ``Erik | swank |
| 00:50.40 | Twingy | streaming tv |
| 00:50.56 | Twingy | much more interesting to me right now |
| 00:50.57 | ``Erik | you should try hand milling some basic things out of aluminum stock, imho |
| 00:51.13 | ``Erik | just to find the right spot where c&c becomes worth it |
| 00:51.13 | Twingy | go buy me a mill with hand cranks then |
| 00:51.20 | ``Erik | uh, yours doesn't have 'em? |
| 00:51.27 | Twingy | uh, cnc motors duh? |
| 00:51.38 | Twingy | you use one or the other |
| 00:51.42 | ``Erik | hrm, I've seen systems that have both... |
| 00:51.43 | archivist | press da buttons then |
| 00:51.44 | ``Erik | *shrug* |
| 00:52.01 | ``Erik | <-- actually liked milling by hand, it was theraputic or something |
| 00:52.05 | ``Erik | lathing, too |
| 00:52.05 | Twingy | you're taking more interest in this than I am :) |
| 00:52.19 | brlcad | up up down down left right left right a b a b [return] |
| 00:52.33 | Twingy | konami codes *grunt grunt grunt* |
| 00:52.41 | ``Erik | well, shit, bitch, you're talkin' about serious nostolgia stuff for me... :D 15 years ago, I was trying to figure out if that's what I wanted to do with my life |
| 00:52.42 | Twingy | ba ba select start |
| 00:53.01 | Twingy | guess you chose poorly |
| 00:53.04 | Twingy | *duck* |
| 00:53.05 | brlcad | heh |
| 00:53.24 | ``Erik | damn I feel old |
| 00:53.50 | ``Erik | <-- still highly amused by prasads reaction at finding out how old he is :D |
| 00:53.50 | Twingy | you're going to be one of the bobs |
| 00:54.05 | ``Erik | twinky, you have a real go getter attitude |
| 00:54.12 | ``Erik | I'm going to recommend that we promote you to mgmt |
| 00:54.24 | Twingy | cool, then I can fire your ass :) |
| 00:54.26 | ``Erik | <-- ducks to avoid the backhand |
| 00:54.26 | ``Erik | :D |
| 00:55.26 | Twingy | forizzle |
| 00:55.54 | ``Erik | man, I installed gnucash on my fbsd7 box, and the fucking pos segfaults on certain chart related functions :( |
| 00:56.17 | ``Erik | sean, shouldn't you be prepping a bz release? |
| 00:56.18 | Twingy | how do you feed configure arguments when it's in a port |
| 00:56.18 | brlcad | what you get for trying to manage your finances |
| 00:56.23 | brlcad | gotta just let em run free |
| 00:56.23 | ``Erik | indeed |
| 00:56.26 | ``Erik | heh |
| 00:56.34 | ``Erik | uh, I have responsibilities |
| 00:56.43 | ``Erik | I'm a "provider" now |
| 00:56.45 | Twingy | beer + car? |
| 00:56.51 | ``Erik | well, a lot less beer |
| 00:56.52 | ``Erik | but that car, yes |
| 00:56.58 | ``Erik | jason had a brat, I had a beast |
| 00:56.59 | ``Erik | :D |
| 00:57.04 | brlcad | you were sober enough to knock someone up? |
| 00:57.14 | Twingy | *psst* I think he knocked his car up |
| 00:57.25 | brlcad | he was doing something to it.. |
| 00:57.40 | ``Erik | heh, uh, she dumped me on friday, and was on the pill, haven't tagged any tail since :) |
| 00:57.45 | ``Erik | I buffed it good |
| 00:57.48 | ``Erik | polished the curves |
| 00:57.49 | ``Erik | aw yeah |
| 00:57.54 | ``Erik | got up in the tail pipes, even :o |
| 00:57.58 | *** join/#brlcad PrezKennedy (n=Apathy@c-68-33-243-45.hsd1.md.comcast.net) | |
| 00:58.00 | Twingy | look you scared chucks son off |
| 00:58.07 | ``Erik | hehehehe |
| 00:58.27 | Twingy | how do you feed configure args from in the port? |
| 00:58.40 | Twingy | without going into the work dir |
| 00:58.50 | Twingy | or izzat the preferred method? |
| 00:58.53 | ``Erik | um, the port might have knobs, grep for \..*if |
| 00:59.00 | ``Erik | if it doesn't, you can do something like |
| 00:59.03 | PrezKennedy | you spoke too soon! |
| 00:59.09 | ``Erik | make CONFIGURE_ARGS=--enable-wozzle |
| 00:59.11 | ``Erik | iirc |
| 00:59.21 | PrezKennedy | darn xchat and its crashing... |
| 00:59.26 | ``Erik | BitchX-1.1-final+ by panasync - FreeBSD 6.0-STABLE |
| 01:00.49 | Twingy | nah |
| 01:00.53 | PrezKennedy | bazing |
| 01:00.56 | Twingy | you just need to write a raytracer |
| 01:01.03 | ``Erik | uh, right, ... |
| 01:01.14 | Twingy | my raytracer gets all the girlz |
| 01:01.17 | ``Erik | and how much tail have you gotten since hurley burley? |
| 01:01.20 | ``Erik | none? thought so :) |
| 01:02.14 | Twingy | cool, mplayer picked up live lib |
| 01:02.21 | PrezKennedy | speaking of myspace stalkers... i knew a guy at UMBC who raped and killed a girl he met on myspace |
| 01:02.32 | ``Erik | charming |
| 01:02.38 | PrezKennedy | indeed |
| 01:02.55 | ``Erik | but if she was legal, it's not newsworthy. The story of the day is statuatory rape. |
| 01:03.01 | ``Erik | so says smacksnot. |
| 01:03.19 | Twingy | forizzle |
| 01:03.46 | Twingy | I do it for the druuuuugs |
| 01:03.59 | ``Erik | hehehehe... towlie... :D |
| 01:04.07 | ``Erik | remember to bring a towel!... wanna get high? |
| 01:04.28 | Twingy | I get high on lee's farts |
| 01:04.38 | ``Erik | y'know, I totally missed the h2g2 connection there until today after lunch... |
| 01:04.41 | ``Erik | <-- slow |
| 01:04.57 | ``Erik | oh, man, if I could set the topic... |
| 01:05.07 | PrezKennedy | Twingy is using designer drugs |
| 01:05.08 | Twingy | I had a connection to h2g2? netstat didn't say anything |
| 01:05.27 | ``Erik | :o it didn't? that SLUT! |
| 01:05.39 | Twingy | that's no way to speak about PrezKennedy |
| 01:06.03 | PrezKennedy | :'( |
| 01:06.11 | PrezKennedy | i thought you cared!!! |
| 01:06.12 | Twingy | I found a use for an apple hockey puck today |
| 01:06.24 | ``Erik | playing hockey with our canuckian friends? |
| 01:06.42 | Twingy | do I look like some kinda fucking care bear? |
| 01:06.47 | ``Erik | I don't like the hockey puck, but I do like the big pill |
| 01:07.05 | Twingy | if I were care bear I'd be the one that drinks heavily and poops on children |
| 01:07.22 | Twingy | can't remember the name of that one |
| 01:07.30 | brlcad | hahaha, damn that's good stuff.. http://brandnew.pbwiki.com/f/0000ckza.gif |
| 01:07.31 | PrezKennedy | Alcoholism bear? |
| 01:07.37 | ``Erik | party bear |
| 01:07.40 | ``Erik | "cool bear" |
| 01:07.40 | Twingy | yes, that's it |
| 01:07.50 | Twingy | and milton would be gay bear |
| 01:08.03 | ``Erik | um, except it's spelled "intarweb" |
| 01:08.04 | Twingy | haha |
| 01:08.21 | PrezKennedy | its spell Teh Intraweb! |
| 01:08.32 | ``Erik | *ghuh* should milton hop on irc and join #bearcave ? |
| 01:08.46 | Twingy | he might flood himself off the channel |
| 01:08.56 | PrezKennedy | no... i think not... not checking out that channel |
| 01:08.57 | Twingy | that would imply you're already on the channel erik? |
| 01:09.14 | ``Erik | no, I'm afraid I wasn't qualified :( |
| 01:09.22 | ``Erik | <-- not fat enough, not hairy enough, and not gay enough |
| 01:09.34 | Twingy | his laptop is fruity |
| 01:09.47 | Twingy | I was watching sean unbreak it all day |
| 01:09.57 | Twingy | he stops in every 5 minutes to see if it's fixed |
| 01:09.58 | ``Erik | that old tibook? |
| 01:10.00 | Twingy | yea |
| 01:10.15 | ``Erik | I thought an order was put in for new macbook pros? |
| 01:10.27 | Twingy | I think we should just give him that xserver in the machine room |
| 01:10.36 | ``Erik | if it weren't for some minor screen damage, I think this g4 lappie would be perfect for a few yrs yet |
| 01:10.41 | Twingy | yea, we'll get those as a retirement gift |
| 01:10.59 | Twingy | you spill another beer? |
| 01:11.03 | ``Erik | <-- not entirely sold on an xserve |
| 01:11.10 | ``Erik | apple martini... and I blame you, beeyotch |
| 01:11.11 | ``Erik | :D |
| 01:11.12 | Twingy | not even the cardboard kind? |
| 01:11.19 | ``Erik | well, teh cardboard one, sure |
| 01:11.21 | Twingy | heh, I had a few of those ove rthe weekend |
| 01:11.42 | ``Erik | but I think if you factor in things like admin time and cost of downtime, scsi is still the winnar in the server room |
| 01:11.56 | Twingy | I think cardboard hard drives trump all |
| 01:12.01 | ``Erik | I threw the idea out to a group of top tier admins, got a chunk of "yeah, what he said" |
| 01:12.14 | PrezKennedy | govt top tier? |
| 01:12.18 | ``Erik | <-- thinks sata is great at replacing pata, but it aint' up to scsi raid |
| 01:12.26 | ``Erik | no, industry, people who have clues and make good decisions |
| 01:12.58 | PrezKennedy | the first bad decision govt people make... is to join the govt |
| 01:13.14 | ``Erik | meh, it depends on the persons goal |
| 01:13.29 | ``Erik | the job stability is... not neglegible. |
| 01:13.49 | ``Erik | <-- been canned a couple times, it can happen out of teh blue and for no good reason |
| 01:13.55 | Twingy | hrm |
| 01:13.59 | ``Erik | I mean, I didn't even take down an entire network at a large isp or anything |
| 01:14.03 | ``Erik | :} |
| 01:14.12 | PrezKennedy | hahaha |
| 01:14.42 | Twingy | meh |
| 01:14.51 | ``Erik | (dynsol was due to attricion, fedex was due to petty politics) |
| 01:15.08 | Twingy | fedex has a good commercial |
| 01:15.09 | ``Erik | attrition |
| 01:15.13 | Twingy | with cavemen |
| 01:16.07 | ``Erik | hehehe, the fedex political bullshit also caused most of their top shelf minds to leave for companies like google :) |
| 01:16.18 | ``Erik | so I don't feel too awfully bad about all that |
| 01:17.38 | ``Erik | http://www.koransky.com/Other/Teletubbies.jpg |
| 01:18.36 | Twingy | checking for lt_dlopen in -lltdl... no |
| 01:18.45 | Twingy | hrm, /usr/local/share/libtool15 |
| 01:18.54 | Twingy | tried symlinking libtool15 to libtool, still aint findin' it |
| 01:20.04 | ``Erik | there's a handful of shit that has to be linked... ls /usr/local/bin/*15 might be a good starting point |
| 01:20.14 | Twingy | aight |
| 01:20.51 | Twingy | 253* too |
| 01:20.55 | ``Erik | that's one thing that pisses me off about fbsd... the peckers maintaining the ports wont' write the scripts to figure out how to link up expected names |
| 01:21.10 | ``Erik | yeah, if that's the version you use... I use libtool15, automake19, and autoconf259, usually |
| 01:21.12 | brlcad | devel/libltdl15 |
| 01:21.29 | brlcad | tis a separate port lib |
| 01:21.39 | Twingy | ah |
| 01:21.45 | ``Erik | find /usr/local/bin -type s <-- on one of the fbsd boxen I rigged up shows some of the stupid |
| 01:21.54 | ``Erik | meh |
| 01:22.20 | brlcad | ie shoulda been a dep for whatever you're building but aparently aint |
| 01:22.38 | ``Erik | you making a port of that program, justin? |
| 01:22.56 | Twingy | nope |
| 01:22.59 | Twingy | gotta get it working first |
| 01:23.08 | brlcad | ah |
| 01:23.21 | Twingy | mplayer is having trouble finding stream, with live.com support it gets further |
| 01:23.35 | Twingy | I think the rtsp://<localhost>:8554/ actually needs something after the slash |
| 01:24.04 | Twingy | damn |
| 01:24.14 | Twingy | still missing ltdl for nemesi, the client for fenice |
| 01:24.38 | Twingy | /usr/local/share/libtool15/libltdl |
| 01:25.08 | Twingy | AC_CHECK_LIB(ltdl,lt_dlopen,,\ |
| 01:25.15 | Twingy | hrmm |
| 01:25.18 | brlcad | <PROTECTED> |
| 01:25.48 | brlcad | oh, what video device is that capturing? |
| 01:26.18 | brlcad | er, what capture device did you get? |
| 01:26.52 | Twingy | bktr0 |
| 01:27.04 | Twingy | Failed to get a SDP description from URL "rtsp://192.168.1.1:8554/live": cannot handle DESCRIBE response: RTSP/1.0 415 Unsupported Media Type |
| 01:27.10 | Twingy | I don't think the stream has a name |
| 01:29.49 | Twingy | hrm, file... |
| 01:32.18 | brlcad | looks interesting http://freebsd.ricin.com/kbtv/ |
| 01:32.30 | brlcad | has a channel changer |
| 01:32.44 | Twingy | fxtv does as well |
| 01:32.57 | Twingy | plus capture stuff |
| 01:34.56 | Twingy | ah |
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| 01:41.10 | ``Erik | http://qdb.us/56099 |
| 01:41.14 | Twingy | the mill arrived mike |
| 01:41.16 | ``Erik | http://qdb.us/56011 |
| 01:41.21 | tegtmeye | sweet! |
| 01:41.27 | tegtmeye | and??? |
| 01:41.47 | Twingy | it's very mill'ish |
| 01:41.52 | ``Erik | http://qdb.us/56019 |
| 01:41.52 | tegtmeye | lol |
| 01:42.04 | Twingy | mplayer is borked |
| 01:42.05 | tegtmeye | all that youhoped for? |
| 01:42.15 | Twingy | I'm working on rtsp stuff |
| 01:42.23 | tegtmeye | ah |
| 01:42.50 | tegtmeye | I expected you to mill up a soda can out of recycled soda cans by now |
| 01:43.31 | Twingy | hrm, libltdl is sitting in /usr/local/lib |
| 01:45.19 | Twingy | ah |
| 01:45.23 | Twingy | fixed their configure script |
| 01:46.17 | Twingy | I might build the mill later tonight or tomorrow |
| 01:47.06 | tegtmeye | how much "some assembly necessary"? |
| 01:47.19 | Twingy | like 4 parts |
| 01:47.29 | Twingy | and then cnc portion |
| 01:47.35 | Twingy | another 4 parts |
| 01:48.07 | tegtmeye | gcc 4.1 released today... |
| 01:48.15 | tegtmeye | if anyone cares |
| 01:48.34 | ``Erik | does it still have the fuckups of the beta? o.O |
| 01:49.30 | tegtmeye | not sure, testing now... |
| 02:33.20 | Twingy | urf, so much breakage |
| 02:33.49 | pra5ad_ | does mplayer work at all w/ nvidia drivers? |
| 02:33.55 | Twingy | yea |
| 02:34.08 | pra5ad_ | special compile flags? |
| 02:34.11 | pra5ad_ | er conf |
| 02:34.14 | Twingy | newp |
| 02:34.17 | pra5ad_ | wtf |
| 02:34.19 | pra5ad_ | =( |
| 02:34.33 | Twingy | never had a problem on loonix or freebsd |
| 02:34.43 | pra5ad_ | from src? |
| 02:34.45 | pra5ad_ | or binary |
| 02:34.53 | Twingy | I compile out of ports |
| 02:34.59 | pra5ad_ | oh |
| 02:35.14 | pra5ad_ | ubuntu has no mplayer package |
| 03:59.05 | pra5ad_ | woot mplayer is working |
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| 14:34.41 | cobbaut | hi, i see on sf.net that 7.6.8 is released, but i don't see it with the downloads... |
| 15:05.14 | brlcad | cobbaut: yeah, jumped the gun by a few hours on the posting.. trouble uploading the tarball |
| 15:05.32 | brlcad | it'll be up in a few hours |
| 15:52.13 | ``Erik | heh |
| 16:05.08 | Maloeran | You may as well grab the cvs I suppose |
| 16:05.22 | ``Erik | heh, is cvs unbroken now? :D |
| 16:06.11 | Maloeran | Sourceforge sure seems to have recurrent problems with cvs |
| 16:06.47 | ``Erik | I meant the code in it, supposedly there were some fresh bugs in librt or something :) |
| 16:07.02 | Maloeran | Ah :) |
| 16:49.41 | brlcad | cvs head isn't reliable at the moment, rel-7-6-branch if you want reliable |
| 19:27.12 | *** join/#brlcad grumbel (n=grumbel@i5387EF7D.versanet.de) | |
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| 20:06.23 | IngMan | Hi Brlcad |
| 20:09.40 | IngMan | For day I have been having the same doubt: How make gears |
| 20:18.02 | IngMan | How make gears |
| 20:40.30 | IngMan | Hi |
| 20:47.46 | IngMan | exit |
| 21:06.24 | Maloeran | That was... coherent |
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| 23:12.56 | ``Erik | spam spam spam and egg salad. |
| 23:18.41 | archivist | I saw that first time around (shows my age) |
| 23:24.01 | ``Erik | was that '76 or '77? |
| 23:24.11 | ``Erik | :) |
| 23:24.21 | brlcad | mm.. sounds yummy |
| 23:25.00 | ``Erik | (well, my parents carried me there ;) |
| 23:25.55 | archivist | maybe earlier than 76 cant remember |
| 23:26.45 | ``Erik | opengl.org pisses me off by not posting more pics by the stories... I use the pictures to see if new shit is listed :( |
| 23:28.29 | archivist | 1969-1974 |
| 23:29.10 | ``Erik | ah, heh, my bad |
| 23:29.14 | archivist | so i was 17 when it started |
| 23:29.18 | ``Erik | 76-77 must've been in the movie phase |
| 23:29.56 | ``Erik | <-- needs to buy the dvd's of the flying circuis and 4 movies... has the latest 'compilation' dvd's |
| 23:33.42 | ``Erik | heh, he has to wire in the cnc motors, then write control software |
| 23:34.36 | ``Erik | mebbe tomorrow afternoon, he'll have a psuedorocket |
| 23:38.42 | *** join/#brlcad docelic (n=docelic@clj34-71.dial-up.arnes.si) | |
| 00:10.54 | *** join/#brlcad ibot (i=ibot@pdpc/supporter/active/TimRiker/bot/apt) | |
| 00:10.55 | *** topic/#brlcad is http://brlcad.org/ || BRL-CAD is now Free Software! || BRL-CAD Windows port has been merged to HEAD, not yet stable yet || Archer is now on HEAD as well, kick the tires, report any bugs || there WILL be a 7.6.8 released ASAP for January after all | |
| 00:17.26 | brlcad | for when ingman returns, http://ftp.brlcad.org/tmp/gear/ |
| 00:19.15 | archivist | ok there was someone else as well |
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| 04:42.09 | Twingy | I need more endmills |
| 05:13.02 | *** join/#brlcad ibot (i=ibot@rikers.org) | |
| 05:13.02 | *** topic/#brlcad is http://brlcad.org/ || BRL-CAD is now Free Software! || BRL-CAD Windows port has been merged to HEAD, not yet stable yet || Archer is now on HEAD as well, kick the tires, report any bugs || there WILL be a 7.6.8 released ASAP for January after all | |
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| 07:27.04 | birdmun | Twingy busy? |
| 07:33.04 | *** join/#brlcad ibot (i=ibot@pdpc/supporter/active/TimRiker/bot/apt) | |
| 07:33.04 | *** topic/#brlcad is http://brlcad.org/ || BRL-CAD is now Free Software! || BRL-CAD Windows port has been merged to HEAD, not yet stable yet || Archer is now on HEAD as well, kick the tires, report any bugs || there WILL be a 7.6.8 released ASAP for January after all | |
| 07:33.32 | birdmun | I will take the lack of response as a yes |
| 08:41.44 | clock_ | Is US implementing a second Soviet Union? http://assembly.coe.int/Documents/AdoptedText/TA05/ERES1433.htm |
| 08:45.19 | clock_ | "United States Government has betrayed its own highest principles", "cruel, inhuman or degrading treatment occurring as a direct result of official policy, authorised at the very highest levels of government", "ill-treatment amounting to torture which has occurred systematically and with the knowledge and complicity of the United States Government", "the United States has engaged in the unlawful practice of secret detention" |
| 08:45.29 | clock_ | And that's an official resolution of the European Perliament! |
| 09:25.54 | birdmun | i didnt vote for the guy runnin this place |
| 09:35.39 | clock_ | After this I am seriously considering boycotting US products |
| 09:35.52 | clock_ | I will maybe buy Swiss Nidecker snowboard instead of a Burton. |
| 09:45.11 | birdmun | i will hold no ill will toward you |
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| 15:28.11 | Maloeran | The Soviet Union was trying to free humanity of religions, though I wouldn't agree on the methods. The theocracy aspect scares me much more... |
| 15:29.04 | ``Erik | heh |
| 15:29.09 | ``Erik | indeed |
| 15:29.37 | ``Erik | bushism is closer to medeival fuedalism than communism or marxism (or stalinism, or maoism) |
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| 16:21.12 | whitehawk | hi |
| 16:21.21 | brlcad | howdy |
| 16:21.34 | whitehawk | where is 7.6.8? |
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| 16:21.40 | whitehawk | I don't seem to find it |
| 16:21.47 | whitehawk | only the release info |
| 16:21.55 | brlcad | issue with the upload, should be up soon |
| 16:24.14 | brlcad | mostly minor updates since 7.6.6 |
| 16:25.23 | whitehawk | As I remember I couldn't compile 7.6.6 for my amd64 |
| 16:37.37 | brlcad | whitehawk: what is/was the error? shouldn't be hard to get it compiling |
| 16:47.03 | whitehawk | don't remember |
| 16:47.13 | whitehawk | I was told it is already fixed in cvs.. |
| 16:47.44 | whitehawk | I think some header file |
| 16:53.50 | whitehawk | tcl tk is a must? |
| 17:02.36 | brlcad | is a must, although brl-cad provides it for you |
| 18:48.19 | *** join/#brlcad pra5ad (n=pra5ad@pool-141-157-106-216.balt.east.verizon.net) | |
| 18:49.15 | pra5ad | quarter century |
| 18:54.17 | archivist | is that all |
| 18:55.36 | pra5ad | u old fogie =) |
| 18:56.26 | archivist | more that 1/2 century |
| 18:56.32 | archivist | than |
| 19:04.03 | whitehawk | someone has a sci gentoo overlay |
| 19:04.11 | whitehawk | there I found a brlcad ebuild |
| 19:04.36 | whitehawk | but that is a crap.. damn I hope I can get the ebuild work |
| 19:06.49 | brlcad | that would be cool |
| 19:06.58 | brlcad | i'd do it myself if I still had my gentoo system up |
| 19:11.00 | pra5ad | hmph brlcad isnt in any of the ubuntu repos |
| 19:11.07 | pra5ad | someone should make a package |
| 19:14.43 | whitehawk | --enable-regexp-build=no' '--enable-png-build=no' '--enable-zlib-build=no' '--enable-urt-build=no' |
| 19:15.15 | whitehawk | these conf options mean support for these stuff or just that bundled will be built? |
| 19:21.37 | *** join/#brlcad IngMan (n=c847284d@bz.bzflag.bz) | |
| 19:22.00 | IngMan | Hi, People |
| 19:25.27 | archivist | Ingman see http://ftp.brlcad.org/tmp/gear/ something brlcad put up for you |
| 19:28.25 | IngMan | exelent |
| 19:31.33 | IngMan | i need make a "gear box", when it finishes it I show them |
| 19:39.47 | IngMan | another question: that it programs is good of finite elements |
| 19:41.12 | ``Erik | huh? |
| 19:41.53 | *** join/#brlcad clock_ (n=clock@84-72-92-19.dclient.hispeed.ch) | |
| 19:44.25 | IngMan | ??? |
| 19:47.24 | brlcad | too many uses of "it", don't know what you're talking about |
| 19:50.09 | IngMan | programs of FEA |
| 19:50.39 | IngMan | Eso de no hablar bien ingles es un problema serio No ??? ;-) |
| 19:50.49 | brlcad | a veces :) |
| 19:51.09 | brlcad | no entiendo la pregunta |
| 19:51.30 | IngMan | que programa de elementos finitos es buneo |
| 19:51.32 | IngMan | bueno |
| 19:52.18 | brlcad | depende en que te importa |
| 19:52.19 | IngMan | calculix, impact |
| 19:52.20 | brlcad | gratis? |
| 19:52.31 | IngMan | libre, es mejor |
| 19:53.43 | brlcad | hay various.. |
| 19:53.48 | brlcad | hmm |
| 19:53.52 | brlcad | http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Finite_element_analysis |
| 19:54.28 | brlcad | ansys y nastran son bien popular pero no gratis |
| 19:54.38 | IngMan | exacto |
| 19:54.44 | IngMan | yo manejo ansys |
| 19:54.52 | IngMan | pero quiero algo GPL |
| 19:55.11 | brlcad | hubo una lista en wikipedia |
| 19:55.26 | brlcad | not too familiar with the free ones |
| 19:56.22 | IngMan | yo conosco varios, libre pero queria saber su opinio para ver cual era el mejor |
| 19:57.53 | brlcad | aja, bueno.. como dije, no conosco los que son gratis muy bien.. :/ |
| 19:58.20 | IngMan | y cual "no gratis" te parece mejor |
| 20:00.57 | brlcad | probablemente ansys |
| 20:01.48 | IngMan | gracias |
| 20:01.55 | IngMan | por las imagenes |
| 20:02.24 | IngMan | cuado acabe la caja de engranes que estoy haciendo te la mostrare |
| 20:02.32 | brlcad | de nada, solo tomo unos minutos |
| 20:02.42 | brlcad | ta bien |
| 20:04.20 | IngMan | yo tengo que hacer eso muchas horas |
| 20:06.18 | IngMan | Ahh, lo del manual en español, |
| 20:06.28 | IngMan | spanish |
| 20:07.00 | IngMan | ya casi lo tengo, pero es que ultimamente ando un poco ocupado |
| 20:07.32 | brlcad | no problemo |
| 20:07.38 | IngMan | chao |
| 20:24.51 | brlcad | heh |
| 20:25.15 | ``Erik | I'm pretty sure the only two people there older than me were buying something for a kid or grandkid, heh |
| 20:25.37 | brlcad | down in the marsh? |
| 20:25.54 | ``Erik | no, bel air, the 'harford mall' has one |
| 20:26.23 | ``Erik | been in the one at whitemarsh mall, tho... |
| 20:26.36 | ``Erik | plus the hollister, american eagle, etc, down there... xgf made me |
| 20:26.37 | ``Erik | heh |
| 20:33.21 | clock_ | brlcad: Imagine that I have a box full of regular tetrahedra |
| 20:33.50 | clock_ | and I am gluing them together, always fitting two faces together so they become identical |
| 20:33.58 | clock_ | brlcad: how can I simulate this in brlcad? |
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| 21:04.53 | learner | clock_: are they randomly placed, or isotropic? |
| 21:10.32 | clock_ | learner: they are manually placed |
| 21:10.44 | learner | but i mean are they adjacent to each other? |
| 21:10.46 | clock_ | I would like to make a lattice truss from regular tetrahedra |
| 21:10.51 | clock_ | yes |
| 21:10.55 | clock_ | they always share a face |
| 21:10.56 | learner | a tetrahedral mesh basically |
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| 22:17.22 | whitehawk | what is jove? |
| 22:18.03 | pra5ad | arcane editor |
| 22:18.07 | pra5ad | *text |
| 22:19.34 | learner | "jonathan's own version of emacs" |
| 22:19.58 | learner | a streamlined emacs from a time that emacs took a long time to load on old slow systems |
| 22:20.10 | whitehawk | can it be disabled? |
| 22:20.15 | learner | yep |
| 22:20.16 | whitehawk | it has a problem in jove.h |
| 22:20.20 | learner | --disable-jove |
| 22:20.22 | whitehawk | with malloc |
| 22:20.27 | learner | yeah |
| 22:20.42 | learner | that has been fixed, and it's a one-line edit, but you really don't need jove |
| 22:21.03 | learner | it just auto-enables by default if it detects that you don't have it installed |
| 22:23.37 | whitehawk | is jove needed in any way by brlcad? |
| 22:26.23 | learner | nope |
| 22:26.48 | learner | it's one of many convenience tools provided, that's one of the oldest -- there are users that request it remain |
| 22:27.11 | whitehawk | oh.. |
| 22:27.19 | whitehawk | and those zlib, png etc? |
| 22:27.38 | learner | those are used by various tools |
| 22:40.32 | pra5ad | ibot, time |
| 22:40.37 | ibot | 2006.03.04 22:40:37 GMT |
| 22:51.46 | whitehawk | somehow disable-jove did not work.. |
| 22:51.59 | whitehawk | might be in the ebuild automatization.. |
| 22:54.06 | learner | bye bye zelazny |
| 22:54.08 | learner | whitehawk, edit src/other/jove.h and remove the malloc line |
| 22:56.05 | *** join/#brlcad DTRemenak (n=DTRemena@c-67-187-164-66.hsd1.ca.comcast.net) | |
| 22:56.05 | *** join/#brlcad CIA-5 (i=cia@69.90.211.97) | |
| 23:01.08 | *** join/#brlcad ChanServ (ChanServ@services.) [NETSPLIT VICTIM] | |
| 23:01.08 | *** mode/#brlcad [+o ChanServ] by irc.freenode.net | |
| 23:20.47 | *** join/#brlcad ibot (i=ibot@rikers.org) | |
| 23:20.47 | *** topic/#brlcad is http://brlcad.org/ || BRL-CAD is now Free Software! || BRL-CAD Windows port has been merged to HEAD, not yet stable yet || Archer is now on HEAD as well, kick the tires, report any bugs || there WILL be a 7.6.8 released ASAP for January after all | |
| 00:08.06 | whitehawk | brlcad finite element analysis |
| 00:08.14 | whitehawk | there's a prog for it |
| 00:08.18 | whitehawk | called solome |
| 00:08.22 | whitehawk | or what |
| 00:09.30 | *** join/#brlcad cobbaut (n=paul@202-160.240.81.adsl.skynet.be) | |
| 00:16.08 | brlcad | salome, from the open cascade folks |
| 00:17.00 | brlcad | from what I understand, they don't actually do the FEA |
| 00:17.24 | brlcad | they do the conversion from cad formats to various FEM |
| 00:17.54 | brlcad | for this, we're working with Cubit from Sandia |
| 00:17.56 | brlcad | http://cubit.sandia.gov/ |
| 00:18.00 | brlcad | much better package |
| 00:20.14 | *** join/#brlcad daggerr (n=daggerr@c83-248-174-134.bredband.comhem.se) | |
| 00:21.03 | brlcad | howdy |
| 00:21.34 | brlcad | whitehawk: in particular, we're hooking into cgm, testing out the connectivity and representations |
| 00:21.37 | brlcad | looking pretty seamless |
| 00:22.28 | whitehawk | <PROTECTED> |
| 00:22.28 | whitehawk | <PROTECTED> |
| 00:22.28 | whitehawk | <PROTECTED> |
| 00:22.28 | whitehawk | <PROTECTED> |
| 00:22.28 | whitehawk | <PROTECTED> |
| 00:22.29 | whitehawk | <PROTECTED> |
| 00:24.08 | brlcad | yep |
| 00:24.13 | brlcad | external solvers being the key |
| 00:24.16 | whitehawk | cubit is not free |
| 00:25.33 | brlcad | for most everyone we've dealt with that need to do an FEA, cost is rarely the problem -- but that is a concern |
| 00:25.51 | brlcad | open cascade doesn't help us a whole lot in that regard, they are free as in beer but not speech |
| 00:27.02 | brlcad | from the few that have played with it, also, none have liked much about open cascade -- it's complex and poorly structured in places |
| 00:27.14 | brlcad | this part might be better, of coruse |
| 00:27.35 | brlcad | let's just say, patches to cinteract with them would be well received |
| 00:27.42 | brlcad | we can already export iges for them |
| 00:35.24 | whitehawk | i got errors from librt or tr... |
| 00:35.37 | whitehawk | i might be missing something for compilation |
| 00:35.51 | brlcad | tr? |
| 00:36.03 | brlcad | ah, librt. |
| 00:36.07 | brlcad | raytrace library |
| 00:36.19 | brlcad | what error? |
| 00:37.12 | whitehawk | something about tcltk |
| 00:37.20 | whitehawk | undefined bla bla.. |
| 00:39.03 | whitehawk | ./.libs/librt.so: undefined reference to `Tcl_FirstHashEntry' |
| 00:39.06 | whitehawk | like this |
| 00:40.20 | brlcad | hmmm.. sounds like an ebuildism for finding/building Tcl |
| 00:40.34 | brlcad | did you noticed whether Tcl was configured on or off? |
| 00:40.46 | whitehawk | off |
| 00:41.11 | brlcad | ah, that's likely why |
| 00:41.32 | whitehawk | you mean --enable-tcl-build? |
| 00:41.33 | brlcad | different versions of Tcl getting linked, missing a symbol |
| 00:42.01 | brlcad | you should probably --enable-everything --disable-jove |
| 00:42.08 | brlcad | yeah, that should be on |
| 00:42.11 | brlcad | not off |
| 00:49.09 | whitehawk | well |
| 00:49.40 | whitehawk | it would be better to use stuff from the repo than the bundled with brlcad |
| 00:49.44 | whitehawk | but nevermind |
| 00:49.53 | whitehawk | night |
| 00:53.17 | brlcad | i agree, that's where more work needs to go into the ebuild |
| 00:53.33 | brlcad | so that it specifies the external deps better |
| 00:53.46 | brlcad | right versions, adds the right build options, etc |
| 01:01.20 | learner | is it all squished? |
| 01:01.29 | learner | ~ww |
| 01:01.30 | ibot | Wrong window pansie |
| 01:47.39 | Twingy | cnc machine works great, I need to pick up some more collets and end mills though |
| 01:47.57 | Twingy | and get crackin' on my cnc software |
| 01:47.58 | birdmun | lol ... so it is a more manufactured machine? |
| 01:48.05 | Twingy | hrm? |
| 01:48.13 | birdmun | collets |
| 01:48.38 | birdmun | i was just wondering what machine you were using ... homebuilt or purchased |
| 01:48.58 | Twingy | taig 20ER-CR |
| 01:49.43 | Twingy | after the rotary table it'll ring at about $2100 |
| 01:50.15 | Twingy | which is ridiculously cheap for a cnc machine |
| 01:50.34 | birdmun | I have parts sitting right next to me to build a homebuilt machine minus the stepper controller |
| 01:51.08 | Twingy | in the future if I require a larger cnc machine I will probably build my own |
| 01:51.31 | Twingy | for now I just don't have the time to build one, I'm getting too far behind on my rocketry progress |
| 01:51.59 | birdmun | lol |
| 01:52.06 | Twingy | I will be dissapointed if I don't have my next rocet motor working by the end of the year |
| 01:52.20 | Twingy | *rocket |
| 01:52.27 | birdmun | amateur rocketry then? |
| 01:52.31 | Twingy | of course |
| 01:52.37 | learner | i will be disappointed if you don't win the ansari launch :) |
| 01:52.39 | Twingy | if work were funding this I'd have much better tools |
| 01:52.59 | Twingy | no way I can win that, don't have the budget or time alotment |
| 01:53.23 | birdmun | pop sci or pop mech did a story on a competition in NM or somewhere similar |
| 01:54.49 | birdmun | at least you work somewhere that is relevant to your hobbies |
| 01:55.02 | Twingy | yes |
| 01:55.57 | birdmun | i help manufacture dog biscuits |
| 01:56.10 | birdmun | not a whole lotta call for cnc work there :) |
| 01:56.26 | Twingy | heh |
| 01:56.47 | birdmun | did you ever consider EMC to run your mill? |
| 01:56.48 | Twingy | I need to get my salary up higher so I can tool up better |
| 01:57.26 | Twingy | that'd require running linux |
| 01:57.38 | Twingy | I'd rather just stick to a proven app like turbocnc in dos |
| 01:57.52 | Twingy | linux without a heavy set of mods is a far cry from realtime |
| 01:58.03 | Twingy | is just wasn't architectured with real-time in mind |
| 01:58.47 | birdmun | i know little about both and as i have as yet to get a machine to work with i will know little about either |
| 01:59.09 | Twingy | I will probably order my mig welder next |
| 01:59.21 | Twingy | presumably sometime next month |
| 02:00.40 | Twingy | I've actually been thinking more and more about aluminum rocket nozzles for this next motor, previously I completely ruled them out, but if designed correctly I think they run with a near room-temperature internal temp |
| 02:00.52 | birdmun | what do you use for fuel in your rocket engines? |
| 02:01.17 | Twingy | the last series were based on richard nakka's potassium nitrate dextrose solid motor design |
| 02:01.41 | Twingy | this series is alot more experimental due to the lack of data in the amateur realm... propane and nitrous |
| 02:03.22 | Twingy | it's got potential to become a really popular type due to just about every aspect of the motor and propellant being simple and cost effective |
| 02:03.33 | birdmun | crazy to think people can buy this stuff off the shelf |
| 02:03.44 | ``Erik | heh |
| 02:03.52 | ``Erik | don't tell the gubmint |
| 02:03.58 | birdmun | dont worry |
| 02:04.13 | birdmun | as you saw earlier im no more fond of it than you are |
| 02:04.26 | birdmun | at least the current leader |
| 02:05.00 | Twingy | I probably won't have to interface with any sort of government regs for atleast 18 - 24 months due to the time frame I'm working on and the scale of the motor |
| 02:05.14 | birdmun | kewl |
| 02:05.55 | birdmun | so it just boils down to a power to weight ratio then |
| 02:05.58 | ``Erik | it'd be interesting to use gasoline and something like a kitchen or bathroom cleaning agent to build a high output rocket engine |
| 02:06.16 | ``Erik | lets see them outlaw gas and 'scrubbing bubbles' o.O |
| 02:06.23 | birdmun | lol |
| 02:06.27 | Twingy | I'm going to build a small 40-50lb thrust motor for my initial design, after that I will scale it up to 150-200lb or thereabouts |
| 02:06.35 | birdmun | wow |
| 02:07.07 | ``Erik | a longer burn time than the ~10s your current generation motors output? |
| 02:07.13 | Twingy | I want appropximately 10:1 weight to thrust ratio |
| 02:07.22 | Twingy | thrust to weight even |
| 02:07.38 | Twingy | 10s? where where you the day of testing? |
| 02:07.43 | ``Erik | 10g acceleration? |
| 02:07.46 | ``Erik | which day of testing? |
| 02:07.51 | ``Erik | heh |
| 02:07.52 | Twingy | you said 10s |
| 02:08.02 | ``Erik | I was there for a few... |
| 02:08.03 | ``Erik | mebbe 2s |
| 02:08.10 | ``Erik | heh |
| 02:08.25 | Twingy | all the burns were well under 2s |
| 02:08.33 | ``Erik | I remember explosions and pieces of the steel motor body detaching |
| 02:08.44 | ``Erik | yeah, that's right... |
| 02:08.55 | ``Erik | under 2s? I though tthe 'full burn' was pretty close to 2s |
| 02:09.17 | Twingy | depends on the configuration |
| 02:09.18 | ``Erik | you did some thrust graphs, right? |
| 02:09.28 | Twingy | the 300lb thrust test was 0.9 seconds |
| 02:09.30 | ``Erik | "bottom up" |
| 02:09.34 | birdmun | http://www.aardvark.co.nz/pjet/xjet.shtml ever see this |
| 02:10.02 | ``Erik | the 300lb was 'top down'? blowing combusted gas over the fuel core? |
| 02:11.43 | Twingy | yep |
| 02:12.11 | ``Erik | think if we told mt that we didn't think a decently performing fem program could do nozzle analysis, he'd whip one up for us? :D *duck* |
| 02:12.24 | ``Erik | erm, rather, that such a program could be done in c++ |
| 02:12.25 | ``Erik | heh |
| 02:12.58 | Twingy | alright, time for me to get organized here, back in a couple hours |
| 02:13.06 | birdmun | hasta |
| 02:13.07 | ``Erik | when you're done, clean my den. |
| 02:13.07 | ``Erik | :D |
| 02:17.59 | ``Erik | have you seen the pulse jet powered go-kart out of nz? |
| 02:18.09 | birdmun | thats where that vid came from |
| 02:18.13 | birdmun | prolly same guy |
| 02:18.40 | ``Erik | ah, I was reading about pulse jets a few years ago, dude in nz did a gokart, a beer cooler, etc |
| 02:18.49 | birdmun | he was working on an cheap knock off of a cruise missle |
| 02:19.01 | birdmun | it has since strangely gone missing from his site |
| 02:20.03 | ``Erik | huh, I think that is the same dude |
| 02:20.10 | ``Erik | but when I looked, the jet was mounted low on the body |
| 02:20.43 | ``Erik | http://www.aardvark.co.nz/pjet/images/jk11.jpg there it is, heh |
| 02:20.49 | birdmun | http://www.aardvark.co.nz/pjet/gokart.htm |
| 02:21.42 | ``Erik | chup |
| 02:22.10 | ``Erik | hah, you're the dude from joplin? |
| 02:22.47 | birdmun | aye |
| 02:23.33 | ``Erik | man, why didn't I find anyone really interested in shit lik ethat when I was out there? :D |
| 02:24.16 | ``Erik | http://www.aardvark.co.nz/pjet/pjafterburner.shtml |
| 02:24.17 | ``Erik | o.O |
| 02:25.43 | birdmun | you were here 10 yrs ago? |
| 02:25.54 | ``Erik | '96-'03 |
| 02:25.57 | ``Erik | erm |
| 02:26.02 | ``Erik | yeah, heh |
| 02:26.07 | birdmun | http://www.interestingprojects.com/cruisemissile/ |
| 02:26.21 | birdmun | because in that time frame i was still in indiana |
| 02:26.23 | ``Erik | <-- did smsu '97-01 |
| 02:26.58 | birdmun | born and raised in indiana |
| 02:27.01 | ``Erik | that made like /. or something when the supposed 'leaning' was taking place |
| 02:27.14 | birdmun | moved here in 03 |
| 02:27.21 | birdmun | i wouldnt be surprised |
| 02:28.07 | birdmun | well im up to lesson 4 in Vol II Intro to mged |
| 02:28.16 | learner | heh |
| 02:28.33 | learner | fun fun |
| 02:28.37 | birdmun | printed the whole thing out took a bit ... 2 pages per page tho ... had a couple jams too |
| 02:29.24 | ``Erik | sean, I want to learn how to make models in brlcad, come show me by modelling my house :D |
| 02:29.26 | ``Erik | *duck* |
| 02:29.35 | birdmun | lol |
| 02:29.55 | learner | easy, "make box arb8" |
| 02:29.57 | ``Erik | don't make me outpress you o.O |
| 02:30.05 | learner | all done |
| 02:30.29 | ``Erik | does that do the moulding on the window sills and door jams, too? |
| 02:30.30 | ``Erik | heh |
| 02:30.39 | birdmun | pick pick pick |
| 02:31.07 | ``Erik | :D |
| 02:32.21 | ``Erik | ('sok, my competition lift is the 12oz curl) |
| 02:32.23 | learner | hehe |
| 02:32.31 | learner | mm.. speaking of such |
| 02:33.30 | birdmun | wow ... i have a green rounded off nub in my graphical window |
| 02:33.39 | ``Erik | I hit the local shop last night, the bottom shelf of my fridge is completely full of microbrew bottles |
| 02:33.39 | birdmun | sarcasm :P |
| 02:33.59 | birdmun | local shops are good |
| 02:34.08 | birdmun | esp when they know you |
| 02:34.12 | ``Erik | indeed |
| 02:34.25 | ``Erik | I've talked shop with one of the brewers at springfield brewery |
| 02:34.34 | birdmun | back home there was a store i could occassionally get discounts |
| 02:34.55 | ``Erik | heh, I've also talked shop with the brewer at a local one, 'duclaws' (a bit big to bea micro anymore, guess they're a regional?) |
| 02:35.12 | birdmun | he |
| 02:35.14 | birdmun | h |
| 02:35.26 | ``Erik | the dude here, he's not the brewmaster, but he does most of the work... he quit his job as a lawyer to brew, really cool guy |
| 02:35.58 | ``Erik | man, open tab of a beer they call "venom"... I so should NOT have drove home that night, hehehe |
| 02:36.13 | ``Erik | tap |
| 02:37.04 | birdmun | stout |
| 02:37.09 | ``Erik | ? |
| 02:37.13 | birdmun | beer |
| 02:37.18 | birdmun | stout/strong |
| 02:37.19 | ``Erik | ja? |
| 02:38.01 | ``Erik | what was the coffee&chocolate stout meuller had, um, 'mudhouse stout'? |
| 02:38.18 | birdmun | no idea |
| 02:38.24 | birdmun | not a beer drinker |
| 02:38.55 | birdmun | southern comfort and mt dew |
| 02:39.27 | birdmun | maybe i should say ... my stomach doesnt tend to like beer |
| 02:39.39 | ``Erik | yet it can take diluded whiskey |
| 02:40.36 | birdmun | who am i to complain :) |
| 02:46.58 | Twingy | ug, so much work left |
| 02:47.42 | birdmun | I have a fair amount to do myself but I cant complain ... all fairly easy stuff |
| 02:48.17 | ``Erik | :D |
| 02:48.20 | Twingy | I think I'm going to do a little more work on my cnc software tonight |
| 02:49.11 | ``Erik | just the cut csg type thing, not, say, a driver? |
| 02:49.12 | ``Erik | :D |
| 02:49.21 | ``Erik | <-- thinks a fbsd driver for that thingy would be gnarly |
| 02:49.45 | birdmun | debian is unacceptable? |
| 02:50.07 | Twingy | turbocnc works just fine |
| 02:50.16 | ``Erik | meh, when I have to use linux and I get the choice of which, I tend to go with debian 'testing' |
| 02:50.44 | birdmun | i dont know enough to even get myself in trouble |
| 02:50.52 | birdmun | well maybe |
| 02:51.04 | ``Erik | yeah, but you have to boot dos to use it, twingy... unless you can get it chugging under dosemu without any hiccups |
| 02:51.04 | birdmun | my current linux partition is unaccessable |
| 02:51.45 | birdmun | unaccessible(?) |
| 02:51.51 | ``Erik | funny, I have a machine with a dual boot config, fbsd and w2k... windows won't boot, the windows cd says the fs is damaged beyond usability, yet fbsd mounts and uses it just fine o.O |
| 02:52.03 | birdmun | lol |
| 02:52.25 | birdmun | been so long since i crashed it i dont recall what i killed |
| 02:52.47 | ``Erik | I think I did in my windows in october or november |
| 02:52.55 | ``Erik | :) |
| 02:53.13 | birdmun | lol |
| 02:53.30 | birdmun | i have a 100g drive w/ 60 partitioned for linux |
| 02:53.48 | birdmun | i keep having to delete and save in my 40g windows partition |
| 02:54.11 | ``Erik | <-- bought into the fileserver mentality many yrs ago... most boxes have just 'nuff hdd to hold the OS |
| 02:54.50 | Twingy | 2 logitech mice and a 256MB stick for good measure |
| 02:54.57 | birdmun | lol |
| 02:55.03 | birdmun | only 256? |
| 02:55.08 | ``Erik | http://i31.photobucket.com/albums/c383/reminesmeto/George_W__Bush_gj_r_177820a.jpg :o |
| 02:55.25 | Twingy | all the stuff I do at home only requires ~256 |
| 02:55.27 | ``Erik | heh, and the machine will recognize 64m of it? :D |
| 02:55.38 | Twingy | it's my little 3ghz p4 shoebox |
| 02:55.50 | birdmun | ic |
| 02:55.57 | Twingy | that's collecting dust for the last 5 months |
| 02:56.07 | birdmun | i have a system like that |
| 02:56.16 | ``Erik | 3ghz? damn, heh |
| 02:56.25 | birdmun | via 1gig w/ 512mb and a 300g hdd |
| 02:56.32 | Twingy | I've got a 1.3ghz celeron in the garage for the cnc machine, 4GB win98, 16GB fbsd6 |
| 02:56.43 | Twingy | with a 15" lcd |
| 02:56.47 | birdmun | kewl |
| 02:56.56 | Twingy | the other 15" lcd is upstairs at top of stairs |
| 02:57.05 | Twingy | that's where the 3ghz box will go |
| 02:57.13 | Twingy | 384MB for web/email |
| 02:57.26 | birdmun | im considering a lcd for the via system |
| 02:57.39 | Twingy | I absolutely love the 15" lcd's they are so practical |
| 02:58.02 | birdmun | system will be used by gf's daughter |
| 02:58.08 | Twingy | they're light, cheap, and can play HD video |
| 02:58.23 | birdmun | dont know if 15 will really compare .. gf has 17crt and i have 19 |
| 02:58.25 | Twingy | my bran new 15" dell lcd was $100 |
| 02:58.32 | birdmun | nice |
| 02:58.57 | Twingy | you just can't beat that |
| 02:59.18 | Twingy | the workstation I'm on now is a pair of 19" lcd's |
| 02:59.23 | Twingy | I've had this setup for 2 years |
| 03:00.03 | Twingy | when I upgrade next year I will probably consolidate to one LCD since they are going way down in price |
| 03:00.15 | birdmun | nice |
| 03:00.29 | Twingy | the 24" ones |
| 03:00.35 | birdmun | dell 20" for 459 |
| 03:00.46 | Twingy | these were $485 a piece in '04 |
| 03:01.51 | birdmun | im sure |
| 03:02.25 | Twingy | once I get the 4x8 trailer together I should be ready to pick up the grizzly lathe |
| 03:02.26 | birdmun | viewsonic 19" 4ms 344 |
| 03:02.35 | birdmun | kewl |
| 03:02.53 | Twingy | they've got a cheap $2300 belt lathe I got my eye on |
| 03:03.04 | birdmun | 800 dell 24 lcd |
| 03:03.09 | birdmun | cheap? |
| 03:03.16 | Twingy | relatively speaking |
| 03:03.24 | Twingy | for a lathe that's cheap |
| 03:03.39 | birdmun | i guess 2300 and cheap rarely coincided for me |
| 03:03.39 | Twingy | amusing thing is it will be as much as my cnc mill |
| 03:03.47 | Twingy | except lathe is 1200lbs and mill is ~100lbs |
| 03:04.53 | birdmun | lathe could prolly eat the mill for breakfast |
| 03:05.07 | ``Erik | heh |
| 03:06.39 | Twingy | more than likely I will put down hardwood in the living room before purchasing the lathe |
| 03:06.54 | Twingy | that is something I'm itching to get done |
| 03:07.03 | birdmun | understandable |
| 03:07.36 | Twingy | I'm thinking about picking it up sometime this month |
| 03:08.02 | Twingy | the weather is a little more forgiving now that spring is near |
| 03:08.27 | Twingy | no scheme, just be smart and motivated |
| 03:08.38 | birdmun | i dont doubt that |
| 03:08.55 | birdmun | and a much better paying job than i have |
| 03:09.08 | birdmun | more motivation than anything tho |
| 03:09.44 | Twingy | obviously you're content with it "enough" otherwise you would have found something else |
| 03:10.31 | birdmun | actually still going to school |
| 03:10.37 | birdmun | dont need to shake things up |
| 03:11.11 | birdmun | and my pay is decent compared to most jobs i have had down here |
| 03:11.20 | birdmun | actually all other jobs i have had down here |
| 03:11.35 | birdmun | just bought a house |
| 03:12.11 | Twingy | good investment |
| 03:12.13 | birdmun | if i seem to be knocking you and your motivation i am sorry |
| 03:12.25 | birdmun | i know im a sloth |
| 03:12.29 | Twingy | heh |
| 03:12.55 | Twingy | you'd be surprised how motivated and productive you can become without a girl friend :) |
| 03:13.21 | Twingy | I'm just taking advantage of the situation while I've not attached |
| 03:13.33 | Twingy | s/I've/I'm |
| 03:14.36 | birdmun | mine is sleeping on the futon currently |
| 03:14.55 | birdmun | and i am amazingly undermotivated often |
| 03:15.09 | birdmun | i work hard to do what i want and then lounge |
| 03:16.22 | birdmun | i have known ppl that say they cant be out of work for long ... me .. i could find many things to occupy(?) my time if i werent working |
| 04:11.27 | Twingy | nothing says fun like a diamond monkey: http://www.js.cx/~justin/cornelius_diamond.png |
| 04:11.46 | Twingy | http://www.js.cx/~justin/images/cornelius_diamond.png |
| 04:13.49 | learner | :) |
| 04:15.20 | learner | my what a mighty bulge he's got going there |
| 04:17.00 | Twingy | hahaha |
| 04:17.10 | Twingy | I just found a video of my room-mate firing up the old sun 3/60 we found |
| 04:17.18 | Twingy | and it checking all 8MB of ram |
| 04:18.09 | Twingy | excuse me a sun 3/200 |
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| 10:46.00 | whitehawk | compilation died fith -fPIC should be set.. |
| 11:18.15 | clock_ | if I have 2 cubes in brlcad is it possible to say that one cube should be aligned to just touch the other one? |
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| 12:36.19 | whitehawk | igf brlcad makes its own tcl tk etc it wqont overwritesystem tcl tk?! |
| 12:43.01 | whitehawk | falcone@nido ~/brlcad-7.6.6 $ mged |
| 12:43.02 | whitehawk | Initializing and backgrounding, please wait...Done |
| 12:43.02 | whitehawk | falcone@nido ~/brlcad-7.6.6 $ this isn't a Tk applicationunknown color name "Black" |
| 12:43.02 | whitehawk | MGED Aborted. |
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| 23:31.56 | tegtmeye | brlcad, you around? |
| 01:23.27 | brlcad | tegtmeye: occasionally |
| 01:36.46 | pra5ad | lies |
| 01:42.39 | brlcad | damn lies |
| 01:43.34 | Twingy | this trailer has like a hundred parts |
| 01:45.11 | ``Erik | O.o |
| 01:46.25 | Twingy | atlest the axle is all bolted and greased |
| 01:49.07 | tegtmeye | brlcad- how do I evaluate a variable in autoconf in this instance... |
| 01:49.23 | tegtmeye | AC_HELP_STRING([--with-stack-size], |
| 01:49.25 | tegtmeye | <PROTECTED> |
| 01:49.43 | tegtmeye | I want the configure --help to look like... |
| 01:49.59 | Twingy | mike, you got any collet sets laying around? |
| 01:50.00 | tegtmeye | set default thread stack byte size [default=###] |
| 01:50.08 | tegtmeye | no |
| 01:50.13 | tegtmeye | sorry, why? |
| 01:50.20 | Twingy | I need some more collets and endmills |
| 01:50.31 | tegtmeye | `more' ??? |
| 01:50.33 | Twingy | gonna resume work on my cnc software this week |
| 01:50.39 | Twingy | I only picked up a handful |
| 01:50.47 | Twingy | I want the whole fricken mcmaster catalogue |
| 01:50.48 | tegtmeye | and what happened to them? |
| 01:50.53 | tegtmeye | lol |
| 01:50.57 | Twingy | nothing happened, I want more damnit |
| 01:51.41 | tegtmeye | how much did you pay for them? |
| 01:51.47 | Twingy | damn I'm out of shape, I ran 2 miles and was out of breath, so sad :( |
| 01:52.02 | Twingy | I bought 5 1/16" endmills for like $20? |
| 01:52.27 | tegtmeye | HSS? |
| 01:52.30 | Twingy | I wanna get some 1 / 32 too and 3/32 |
| 01:52.34 | Twingy | I believe so |
| 01:52.39 | tegtmeye | sounds right |
| 01:52.41 | brlcad | tegtmeye: heh |
| 01:52.47 | Twingy | I ordered them like 3 months ago |
| 01:53.01 | Twingy | around the time I ordered the cnc portion |
| 01:53.26 | brlcad | you can't directly with AC_HELP_STRING |
| 01:53.33 | tegtmeye | brlcad - I tried every combination of extra [[]]'s and "'s I could think of... |
| 01:53.34 | brlcad | you have to wrap it in a macro |
| 01:53.41 | brlcad | so that it's m4 evaluated |
| 01:54.02 | tegtmeye | eg? |
| 01:54.23 | brlcad | brl-cad does this, take a look at the BC_ARG_ENABLE macro |
| 01:54.39 | brlcad | m4 dir |
| 01:54.44 | brlcad | args.m4 iirc |
| 01:55.27 | tegtmeye | autoconf talks about the AC_DEFUN macro... |
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| 02:03.48 | tegtmeye | brlcad-I'm seeing its use but not the definition... |
| 02:04.29 | brlcad | 20:54 <@brlcad> m4 dir |
| 02:04.30 | brlcad | 20:54 <@brlcad> args.m4 iirc |
| 02:05.29 | tegtmeye | ah... |
| 02:07.25 | pra5ad | go on |
| 02:08.12 | Twingy | pizzas, hot pockets, and soda |
| 02:08.30 | pra5ad | excellent |
| 02:08.30 | Twingy | late night coding snacks |
| 02:08.51 | Twingy | pizzas $2, hot pockets $1, sodas 25 cents |
| 02:09.40 | Twingy | I think I have like 16 pizzas and 12 hot pockets |
| 02:10.13 | Twingy | I pretty much wiped food lion out |
| 02:10.38 | Twingy | can't remember the last time I speant over $100 on groceries |
| 02:12.03 | tegtmeye | <- giving up |
| 02:12.51 | Twingy | HARMONIC OSCILLATIONS#@! |
| 02:12.53 | tegtmeye | as long as I can wear fuzzy slippers |
| 02:13.15 | tegtmeye | your playing a harmonica??? |
| 02:13.27 | Twingy | yea, I milled one out of silly putty |
| 02:13.32 | tegtmeye | s/your/you're |
| 02:15.45 | Twingy | and best supporting actress goes to Rachel Weisz |
| 02:17.11 | Twingy | oof, looking forward to monday, what an exhausting weekend |
| 03:49.55 | brlcad | Twingy: http://www.makezine.com/blog/street_legal_vw_powered_3.jpg |
| 03:52.46 | brlcad | that site is right up your alley |
| 03:59.00 | ``Erik | that the one orielly was involve din? |
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| 06:25.24 | CIA-5 | BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/TODO: gpgpu for enhanced performance boolweave sorting |
| 06:29.18 | CIA-5 | BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/TODO: libfb + font rendering (perhaps through libbn's plot interface) for a posix terminal. |
| 06:34.29 | *** join/#brlcad clock_ (n=clock@84-72-88-28.dclient.hispeed.ch) | |
| 06:34.39 | CIA-5 | BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/TODO: support to the raytracers for multiple image file formats, recognizing an option and/or the file suffix of the -o filename. |
| 07:58.43 | CIA-5 | BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/TODO: cheat sheet of common mged commands, keybindings, gui elements and scripting facilities |
| 07:59.56 | CIA-5 | BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/TODO: cheat sheet of useful BRL-CAD command-line tools grouped categorically |
| 08:03.26 | CIA-5 | BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/TODO: might as well call them by the more tame name of reference sheets |
| 08:11.41 | CIA-5 | BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/TODO: short intro documentation for command line tools including a separate one for mged. generally want a document less than 20 pages but encompassing. |
| 08:22.36 | CIA-5 | BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/TODO: restore functionality to tests and benchmark |
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| 14:50.51 | mados | hallo |
| 14:51.56 | mados | wich is the package for windows plattform |
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| 16:24.06 | ``Erik | O.o |
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| 18:54.04 | tegtmeye | er... |
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| 19:00.19 | brlcad | exactly |
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| 00:36.15 | ``Erik | http://www.ukresistance.co.uk/pics3/segaviz2.jpg |
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| 03:04.41 | Twingy | hrm, trailer is wired up now |
| 03:22.13 | pra5ad | mmm X3 trailer |
| 03:38.40 | Twingy | I really need to build a linear actuator add-on for this trailer for rocket launching |
| 03:39.10 | Twingy | simple hinge and pneumatic actuator setup that bolts on |
| 03:39.33 | brlcad | gonna pimp your ride? |
| 03:39.34 | Twingy | with 1/4" steel plate to prevent rocket exhaust from damaging trailer |
| 03:39.43 | Twingy | pimp my trailer y0 |
| 03:39.50 | Twingy | put spinners on it |
| 03:39.53 | Twingy | and neon lights |
| 03:39.59 | Twingy | with 3 spoilers |
| 03:40.01 | brlcad | rockets on the spinners |
| 03:40.11 | Twingy | like a mexican parade |
| 03:40.25 | Twingy | or fiesta |
| 03:40.27 | brlcad | as your pull up to the gate |
| 03:40.37 | Twingy | *WHISTLE* *WHIRL WHIRL WHIRL* |
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| 04:54.25 | pra5ad | ruh roh |
| 04:54.35 | pra5ad | roosevelt is angry that i adopted islam |
| 04:54.45 | pra5ad | here comes the preemptive war |
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| 17:01.31 | tegtmeye | sean, you around? |
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| 20:05.24 | brlcad | tegtmeye: nope |
| 20:07.16 | ``Erik | http://unix.rulez.org/~calver/pictures/curves.jpg |
| 20:09.16 | brlcad | hehe, yeah, saw that |
| 21:39.15 | ``Erik | vim is my favored flavor |
| 21:52.19 | docelic | sure |
| 21:53.21 | docelic | http://www.alf.com/ |
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| 23:27.05 | learner1 | /nick learner |
| 23:27.14 | brlcad | hmm, that didn't work as planned |
| 23:52.24 | Twingy | heh |
| 23:52.31 | Twingy | still watching? |
| 23:52.38 | brlcad | mebbe... :) |
| 23:54.58 | Twingy | 0x2B | !0x2B that is the question |
| 23:55.43 | Twingy | who would have thought a logic analyzer could answer one of shakespears most famous questions |
| 23:55.46 | archivist | hehe an HP1631D |
| 23:56.28 | archivist | do we need to send a collection plate around for end mills |
| 23:56.47 | Twingy | yes |
| 23:56.54 | Twingy | just ordered more parts yesterday |
| 23:57.04 | Twingy | planning to spend most of tonight working on opengl stuff |
| 23:57.30 | ``Erik | heh |
| 23:57.42 | archivist | opengl--->broken end mill |
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| 00:24.23 | pra5ad | haha HP1631D |
| 00:24.49 | pra5ad | i used one of those |
| 00:24.53 | pra5ad | back in undergrad |
| 00:26.09 | archivist | I like old HP, especially when free |
| 00:26.43 | pra5ad | and by back, i meant 2 yrs ago |
| 00:27.06 | archivist | heh thes are circe mid 80's |
| 00:27.36 | pra5ad | top 20 college program and cant buy up to date equipment |
| 00:27.48 | archivist | time to drill the fuse link to effect a repair |
| 00:30.30 | pra5ad | hmm for $200 we made a dla w/ 2mb ram |
| 00:31.09 | pra5ad | driven by a 24mhz crystal |
| 00:31.15 | pra5ad | or was it 40.. |
| 00:33.28 | Twingy | my logic analyzer consists of a hammer, broom, and dust pan |
| 00:33.59 | brlcad | s/shove guys/shove guts/ |
| 00:34.04 | Twingy | yum |
| 00:35.45 | archivist | ooo fixed fuse and got a worker |
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| 02:31.36 | Twingy | hrm, now I need plywood to finish trailer |
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| 04:51.33 | Twingy | 0xsleep |
| 04:51.58 | Twingy | 0xBED |
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| 14:32.13 | birdmun | trying to figure out how to make a raytrace look like chrome/polished aluminium |
| 14:32.34 | birdmun | i am guessing it has to do w/ stacking shaders but not sure which ones |
| 14:40.26 | brlcad | not necessarily |
| 14:40.42 | brlcad | start with just phong/plastic |
| 14:41.08 | brlcad | or select metal on the list (which is also phong/plastic, but with different defaults) |
| 14:41.33 | birdmun | i will have to try that between classes .. thanks |
| 14:41.48 | birdmun | at least i have figured out how to draw and raytrace |
| 14:43.47 | brlcad | basically, tweak the reflectivity and specularity values |
| 14:44.12 | brlcad | middle mouse will tell you what each of them mean |
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| 16:39.04 | brlcad | http://ftp.brlcad.org/images/havoc_rtedge.png |
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| 21:38.46 | birdmun | the havoc your work brlcad? |
| 21:39.23 | birdmun | just a mention before i head to work ... 7.6.6 doesnt seem to have a metal shader unless im not looking hard enough |
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| 00:29.31 | pra5ad | ``Erik the revolutionary |
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| 00:37.52 | ``Erik | ? |
| 00:38.41 | pra5ad | firing the first shots by taking out webstart |
| 00:44.18 | ``Erik | hah |
| 00:44.19 | ``Erik | uh |
| 00:44.21 | ``Erik | that was a mistake |
| 00:44.28 | ``Erik | I rm -rf'd the wrong dir :( |
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| 01:06.09 | archivist | Twingy "pimp my trailer" http://www.archivist.info/pics/1947%20Cow%20trailer%20-%20rvl.jpg |
| 01:07.55 | ``Erik | uh, that's kinda cool, but where's the wetbar? |
| 01:09.08 | ``Erik | (is that a mercedes tri-star at the bottom of it?) |
| 01:10.28 | archivist | or http://www.archivist.info/pics/Chrysler%20Hemi%20Powered%20Bar-B-Que%20Grille.jpg |
| 01:18.24 | archivist | looks like he raided the kitchen as well to build it |
| 01:38.54 | ``Erik | hehehe, colbert report rocks |
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| 02:14.32 | ``Erik | EXTREME VAGINAL MAKEOVER! |
| 02:14.52 | brlcad | shaddap |
| 02:24.17 | ``Erik | um... NO! |
| 02:24.21 | ``Erik | heh, what's up? |
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| 20:31.31 | birdmun | i was reading thru the appendix A in Tutorial 2 and noticed a mention of animate having its own tutorial |
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| 22:35.12 | brlcad | birdmun: yes, there are a couple animation tutorials that have been made over time.. one is available on-line, comes up if you search for brl-cad animation |
| 23:59.43 | ``Erik | O.o |
| 00:02.28 | archivist | acceleration curves and system resonance go nicely together |
| 00:02.57 | Twingy | I'll see about posting some screen shots of my cam software next week or so |
| 00:07.02 | archivist | I want to build a cnc gear miller one day, with some form of tool and gear blank measurement |
| 00:07.32 | Twingy | a standard cnc mill will be able to do that |
| 00:07.45 | Twingy | in fact one of my templates that come with the software will be a gear |
| 00:07.51 | Twingy | to show how templates work |
| 00:10.49 | archivist | all the cheap systems ive seen are open loop and dont center the cutter which is very important on small gears and pinions |
| 00:11.12 | archivist | I setup machines here with a microscope |
| 00:11.26 | Twingy | when you see the accuracy of mine you can be the judge of whether it meets your requirements or not |
| 00:14.24 | archivist | it takes up to a day to setup to make 3mm od 9 tooth pinion (and thats on a Safag swiss pinion miller) |
| 00:14.57 | Twingy | I'll see how long it takes me to make one when I'm done |
| 02:17.49 | ``Erik | http://www.lileks.com/institute/gallery/ |
| 02:20.08 | Twingy | hrm, only 3 hours left to code tonight |
| 02:31.51 | brlcad | crazy talk |
| 02:32.31 | Twingy | I'm getting close to done though |
| 02:32.35 | ``Erik | sleep is for the weak? |
| 02:36.29 | Twingy | *grumble* |
| 02:42.38 | brlcad | sleep is for the dead |
| 02:48.06 | Twingy | man, this is just depressing me |
| 02:54.18 | Twingy | amazing |
| 02:54.38 | Twingy | I have 2 and only 2 headers included, signal.h and sys/types.h, and yet implict declaration to kill remains |
| 02:55.10 | Twingy | even got __USE_POSIX defined too >_< |
| 03:33.02 | learner | if it's implicit, then you're missing a header |
| 03:33.08 | learner | or a define |
| 03:33.28 | Twingy | cant be the case cause I had them all there |
| 03:33.33 | Twingy | and nothing was undefing shit |
| 03:33.50 | Twingy | there is some mysterious shit going on in this code |
| 03:35.09 | Twingy | it's so ugly having to put #define __USE_BSD and crap everywhere |
| 03:35.49 | Twingy | some stuff needs it defined, other stuff doesn't, it's totally wonky |
| 03:54.37 | Twingy | you still at work? |
| 04:07.48 | learner | nah |
| 04:08.29 | Twingy | freebsd and linux work |
| 04:08.39 | Twingy | testing altix |
| 04:12.04 | Twingy | and off it goes |
| 04:16.21 | Twingy | go baby go |
| 04:23.38 | Twingy | works |
| 04:23.45 | Twingy | welp, that takes care of 4 |
| 04:23.52 | Twingy | my work is done |
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| 04:58.39 | CIA-5 | BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/sh/ (footer.sh header.sh): add support for m4 files and make sure it's consistent on template files between the header and footer scripts |
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| 09:17.04 | *** topic/#brlcad is http://brlcad.org/ || BRL-CAD is now Free Software! || BRL-CAD Windows port has been merged to HEAD, not yet stable yet || Archer is now on HEAD as well, kick the tires, report any bugs || there WILL be a 7.6.8 released ASAP for January after all | |
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| 10:56.13 | *** topic/#brlcad is http://brlcad.org/ || BRL-CAD is now Free Software! || BRL-CAD Windows port has been merged to HEAD, not yet stable yet || Archer is now on HEAD as well, kick the tires, report any bugs || there WILL be a 7.6.8 released ASAP for January after all | |
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| 14:31.13 | clock_ | brlcad: do you know the Nitro Magnum snowboard? |
| 14:43.38 | brlcad | not really |
| 14:44.41 | clock_ | What do you ride? |
| 14:55.39 | brlcad | a bicycle ;) |
| 14:55.40 | brlcad | Specialized |
| 15:00.59 | clock_ | you don't ride a snowboard? |
| 15:02.53 | brlcad | i wouldn't mind it, probably can |
| 15:03.00 | brlcad | but haven't tried it |
| 15:03.07 | brlcad | yet |
| 15:03.14 | brlcad | usually go skiing |
| 15:04.02 | clock_ | you can't ride snowboard when you haven't tried it yet. |
| 15:05.10 | ``Erik | weeeeee |
| 15:05.29 | ``Erik | see? can too ride a snowboard if you haven't tried it before :D |
| 15:05.39 | ``Erik | s/o// |
| 15:05.55 | ``Erik | ibot |
| 15:05.57 | ``Erik | ghah |
| 15:33.29 | clock_ | that's not riding snowboard. That's riding a sledge. |
| 15:34.10 | clock_ | Is ibot AD? Artificial Debility? |
| 15:35.21 | brlcad | i've asked tim to shut that off, and he did for the other channel .. just not for #brlcad yet |
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| 19:18.52 | CIA-5 | BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/configure.ac: unable to track down all the tclisms auto_path right now so redefault to build instead of auto |
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| 01:06.42 | Twingy | back to coding |
| 02:15.27 | pra5ad | damn comcrap |
| 02:15.38 | Twingy | comtrash |
| 02:15.42 | pra5ad | i cant just pick up the hd reciever |
| 02:15.48 | pra5ad | they HAVE to send in technicians |
| 02:16.09 | Twingy | heh |
| 02:16.56 | pra5ad | earliest slot is 3/16 |
| 02:16.57 | pra5ad | ugh |
| 02:17.26 | Twingy | I'm already 400+ lines into my cam software |
| 02:17.36 | Twingy | I'll probly write another 300 tonight |
| 02:28.41 | pra5ad | ugh |
| 02:28.46 | pra5ad | make it 3/17, 5pm |
| 02:28.53 | pra5ad | i want my HD pbs now dammit |
| 02:28.54 | pra5ad | =( |
| 02:30.14 | Twingy | what exactly is the problem |
| 02:30.37 | pra5ad | gotta have the hd box |
| 02:31.06 | Twingy | hi def? |
| 02:31.11 | pra5ad | yea |
| 02:31.27 | Twingy | so you order service and they come install it |
| 02:31.44 | pra5ad | yes |
| 02:33.01 | pra5ad | lets see if hdmi is any different than component |
| 02:33.10 | pra5ad | apparently my tv manufacturer thinks so |
| 02:42.21 | Twingy | break time |
| 04:15.44 | Twingy | peanut buttah jelly time |
| 04:17.57 | pra5ad | brilliant.. i get battlefield 2 and it only runs on xp |
| 04:18.04 | pra5ad | not my day. |
| 04:30.10 | Twingy | wee, 500 lines |
| 05:13.05 | Twingy | mmm |
| 05:34.44 | pra5ad | lol bf2 just killed my mbr |
| 05:41.35 | Twingy | tsp graph updated |
| 06:45.15 | Twingy | and that makes 700 lines |
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| 17:07.51 | *** topic/#brlcad is http://brlcad.org/ || BRL-CAD is now Free Software! || BRL-CAD Windows port has been merged to HEAD, not yet stable yet || Archer is now on HEAD as well, kick the tires, report any bugs || there WILL be a 7.6.8 released ASAP for January after all | |
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| 18:02.28 | narnia | knock, knock, anyone here? |
| 18:03.36 | archivist | anyone went missing fetching some beer |
| 18:17.05 | ``Erik | o.O |
| 18:20.31 | archivist | must have been mugged by Erik |
| 18:24.32 | ``Erik | all your beer are belong to me |
| 18:42.02 | ``Erik | why not? |
| 18:42.19 | ``Erik | and, um, you are aware that you can drink things other than beer... there's no need to be thirsty |
| 18:42.32 | ``Erik | I mean, there's wine, whiskey, vodka, kahlua, tequila, rum, ... |
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| 18:45.13 | archivist | cant afford it, I survive on coffee if the boss makes it or water |
| 18:45.29 | CIA-5 | BRL-CAD: 03jlowenz 07trimnurbs-branch * 10brlcad/sh/ (header.sh footer.sh): Changes from HEAD merge. |
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| 21:09.08 | CIA-5 | BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/TODO: center of presented area |
| 22:22.14 | CIA-5 | BRL-CAD: 03jlowenz 07trimnurbs-branch * 10brlcad/include/nurb.h: ws and support for trimming curves on a nurb surface. |
| 22:26.26 | CIA-5 | BRL-CAD: 03jlowenz 07trimnurbs-branch * 10brlcad/src/librt/g_nurb.c: ws; added support to export trimming curves along with their nurb surface. |
| 22:29.28 | CIA-5 | BRL-CAD: 03jlowenz 07trimnurbs-branch * 10brlcad/src/librt/nurb_util.c: ws; initialize trimming curve list and count; added function to add trimming curves to a surface. |
| 00:21.10 | brlcad | awesome http://www.nottingham.ac.uk/~eaxwr/geom.html |
| 00:22.00 | brlcad | then fed to fem code: http://www.nottingham.ac.uk/~eaxwr/geom2fem.html |
| 00:24.44 | archivist | 30 miles from here |
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| 00:42.26 | ``Erik | veddy interestink |
| 00:42.40 | ``Erik | http://www.speed101.com/gallery/videos.htm damn those're some fast bikes |
| 01:01.37 | learner | cool |
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| 03:49.55 | Twingy | oye |
| 03:52.21 | Twingy | I think I could beat that in my pick-up |
| 06:14.43 | Maloeran | That doesn't look very comfortable, safe or manoeuvrable. I think I'll stick to my "normal" bicycle and a 35km/h. speed |
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| 22:21.20 | CIA-5 | BRL-CAD: 03jlowenz 07trimnurbs-branch * 10brlcad/include/nurb.h: oops, add support for lists of trim_contours (essentially a list of curves) since any given trim contour may be composed of multiple curves. |
| 22:28.31 | CIA-5 | BRL-CAD: 03jlowenz 07trimnurbs-branch * 10brlcad/src/librt/g_nurb.c: |
| 22:28.31 | CIA-5 | BRL-CAD: modify import/export5 to support reading and writing the trimming |
| 22:28.31 | CIA-5 | BRL-CAD: curves from the db. this change makes the nurbs format |
| 22:28.31 | CIA-5 | BRL-CAD: incompatible with previous versions. |
| 22:32.58 | CIA-5 | BRL-CAD: 03jlowenz 07trimnurbs-branch * 10brlcad/src/librt/nurb_util.c: added some util functions to create a trim_contour as well as add curves to it, and add it to a nurb surface. |
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| 18:25.09 | *** topic/#brlcad is http://brlcad.org/ || BRL-CAD is now Free Software! || BRL-CAD Windows port has been merged to HEAD, not yet stable yet || Archer is now on HEAD as well, kick the tires, report any bugs || there WILL be a 7.6.8 released ASAP for January after all | |
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| 13:53.08 | brlcad | hm |
| 13:53.25 | brlcad | sf tracker parser is sort of working |
| 13:55.48 | ``Erik | ? |
| 13:57.15 | brlcad | writing a script that grabs data from all the trackers and a few files in cvs to generate a master "report" |
| 13:57.27 | brlcad | for .. someone .. that likes to see big spreadsheets of data |
| 13:58.17 | brlcad | and yes, this is why the release is being delayed |
| 13:58.17 | ``Erik | oh |
| 13:58.18 | ``Erik | heh |
| 13:58.29 | ``Erik | let me know when he's in so I can punch his head a few tmes for ya ;) |
| 13:58.30 | ``Erik | *duck* |
| 13:58.46 | brlcad | who said he |
| 13:58.58 | ``Erik | oh, ah, so direct, not via the proper channel |
| 13:58.58 | ``Erik | ok |
| 14:00.40 | ``Erik | huh, ya guys aren't using the tasker? |
| 14:06.56 | ``Erik | man, two weeks since announcing the release... |
| 14:17.42 | brlcad | i use the tasker as time permits |
| 14:17.54 | brlcad | using the gforge tasker for internal projects |
| 14:29.38 | ``Erik | the sf one has no subprojects listed o.O :) |
| 14:30.37 | brlcad | hmm, whatchootalking bout willis |
| 14:30.44 | brlcad | TODO |
| 17:23.10 | ``Erik | a/det |
| 17:23.10 | ``Erik | a/det |
| 17:23.12 | ``Erik | ghah |
| 17:29.24 | CIA-5 | BRL-CAD: 03bob1961 * 10brlcad/src/other/iwidgets/generic/entryfield.itk: Modified the _keyPress method to propagate the <Return> event if the -command option is empty. |
| 17:36.10 | CIA-5 | BRL-CAD: 03bob1961 * 10brlcad/src/tclscripts/archer/images/aboutArcher.png: Update to 0.7.5 |
| 17:43.09 | *** join/#brlcad grumbel (n=grumbel@i5387C6EB.versanet.de) | |
| 20:53.04 | CIA-5 | BRL-CAD: 03jlowenz 07trimnurbs-branch * 10brlcad/ (4 files in 3 dirs): merge from HEAD |
| 21:08.36 | Maloeran | All these messages from lilo about reaching 30k users being "Kind of a nice feeling", and many others, are scary in a way... The guy seems to have dedicated his existence to the IRC network |
| 21:40.27 | ``Erik | indeed o.O |
| 21:41.14 | ``Erik | I've a feeling that he's 42, lives in his moms basement, and is incapable of talking in the presense of a (non-related) female o.O |
| 21:41.18 | ``Erik | O:-) |
| 21:53.26 | brlcad | heh |
| 21:53.53 | brlcad | he has dedicated himself to it, it's his full-time job now |
| 21:54.47 | archivist | he keeps the spam bastards under control |
| 21:54.48 | brlcad | he has a family too |
| 21:56.35 | ``Erik | who lives above him? mainly his mom? :D |
| 21:56.37 | ``Erik | *duck* |
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| 16:31.14 | ``Erik | prasad is hungry. |
| 16:32.46 | iday | pra5ad doesn't have his own voice? |
| 16:33.04 | ``Erik | he is not clever enough to be here right now |
| 16:33.10 | iday | heh |
| 16:33.17 | ``Erik | so he walked into my office to get me to see if justin and/or sean were interested |
| 16:33.18 | ``Erik | heh |
| 16:33.29 | iday | what about gym? |
| 16:33.40 | Maloeran | Ah, so he escaped from that place called "outside" where he was trapped yesterday |
| 16:34.11 | ``Erik | heh, apparently, mal :) he's a bit embarrased that it's common knowledge ;D |
| 16:34.48 | iday | iday = phcoder |
| 16:35.07 | iday | but my nick was... um... taken |
| 16:35.32 | ``Erik | ahhh, with both you and sean ooo, I guess he has no will to pick heavy things up just to put them back down |
| 16:35.54 | iday | hah |
| 16:36.48 | Maloeran | Yup ``Erik, it's common knowledge all the way back to Canada :) |
| 16:37.21 | ``Erik | what? there's knowledge in canada? :D *duck* |
| 16:37.58 | iday | what about? |
| 16:38.06 | ``Erik | oconus to canuckia |
| 16:38.13 | iday | ah yes. |
| 16:38.14 | ``Erik | I was a bit late |
| 17:04.38 | ``Erik | mmm mmmmm, cup o' noodles. |
| 17:10.30 | ``Erik | heh, I bought a big ol' jar of couscous and have eaten it exactly once o.O |
| 17:11.39 | Maloeran | Ah I have mine delivered, I can't cook that well |
| 19:04.03 | Twingy | ``Erik, you see the screenshot? |
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| 20:23.08 | ``Erik | screenie of what? |
| 20:23.33 | ``Erik | btw, I fixed that ssh thing just now... so'z you can get into that machine again |
| 20:24.09 | Twingy | http://gcam.js.cx/images/GCAM_SS_20060316.png |
| 20:24.40 | ``Erik | gtk2, and gtkglarea? |
| 20:24.47 | Twingy | gtkglext |
| 20:24.59 | ``Erik | nifty |
| 20:26.17 | archivist_ashby | its a png couldnt see it move |
| 20:27.40 | Twingy | with any luck I'll have time to get it spitting out g-code this weekend |
| 20:33.30 | archivist_ashby | ooo |
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| 22:09.14 | pra5ad | fucking idiots at comast |
| 22:09.16 | pra5ad | comcast |
| 22:09.20 | pra5ad | AHHHHHHh |
| 22:09.54 | pra5ad | i ask for hdmi+dvr and they bring me a box w/o hdmi and w/o dvr |
| 22:10.18 | pra5ad | most excellent way to spend annual leave |
| 22:12.39 | docelic | haha |
| 22:23.09 | ``Erik | ghah, I accidently listened to some screamo |
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| 23:08.40 | ``Erik | ghah, thanks for reminding me, jason |
| 23:17.14 | Twingy | that's my job |
| 23:17.24 | ``Erik | twinky, what dates did you reserve for? |
| 23:17.48 | Twingy | guess |
| 23:17.56 | ``Erik | the defaults? |
| 23:18.01 | Twingy | no |
| 23:18.19 | Twingy | we always leave 1 day before event, and leave the day after |
| 23:18.25 | Twingy | *arrive |
| 23:19.25 | pra5ad | wouldnt that be the default |
| 23:19.33 | pra5ad | on the hotel reservation site at least |
| 23:20.28 | Twingy | no |
| 23:20.35 | ``Erik | actually, they have departure listed as the same day as the end |
| 23:20.38 | Twingy | because default is leaving day OF event |
| 23:20.47 | ``Erik | so 7/29-8/04 ? |
| 23:20.47 | pra5ad | oh woops |
| 23:20.52 | Twingy | silly wabbit |
| 23:21.18 | pra5ad | i got an F |
| 23:24.15 | Twingy | you two shacking? |
| 23:24.30 | pra5ad | nein |
| 23:25.31 | pra5ad | heh, another guy contacts me thru gdc |
| 23:26.29 | pra5ad | tata |
| 23:29.59 | ``Erik | yay, I'm registered |
| 23:30.13 | Twingy | westin? |
| 23:30.22 | ``Erik | yup |
| 23:30.45 | ``Erik | hm, $64/day m&ie, if I treat it like 52, I'm good |
| 23:31.23 | Twingy | I can get a few steaks for that |
| 23:31.25 | ``Erik | heh, or if I cash out the travel comp time o.O |
| 23:31.44 | Twingy | how's that work? |
| 23:32.19 | ``Erik | you fill out fairly detailed forms for the travel (when you were where, how long you waited for what, etc), some of it applies towards travel comp, if you let it sit for 2 months, it cashes out at overtime rates, I believe |
| 23:32.45 | ``Erik | last year, I did travel comp for siggraph, lee did not as he was afraid it would give 'them' an excuse not to send us next year |
| 23:32.47 | Twingy | that's quick |
| 23:32.52 | ``Erik | *nod* |
| 23:32.53 | Twingy | regular comp time takes over 6 months |
| 23:33.11 | ``Erik | did it for java1, too |
| 23:33.49 | ``Erik | it does require some detailed logging of the trip, though |
| 23:34.09 | Twingy | maybe I should get out my crayons then |
| 23:35.18 | ``Erik | heh, we could try a mass justification for going over per diem, the 'actual expense' on lodging... wendy seemed to think a single large group waiver would fly o.O |
| 23:35.51 | Twingy | I'm not over on lodging |
| 23:36.00 | Twingy | therefore I don't care :) |
| 23:36.22 | ``Erik | aight *shrug* even if you and sean could grab a second room and have private singles, instead? |
| 23:36.37 | Twingy | yea, he wakes my ass up when I'm too tired |
| 23:36.46 | Twingy | *crack* |
| 23:36.48 | Twingy | :) |
| 23:36.52 | ``Erik | unless he finds someone elses room to crash in ;) *duck* |
| 23:37.08 | Twingy | hey, I'm down with sloppy seconds |
| 23:37.37 | ``Erik | would be a step up from last year? *duck* *run* :D |
| 23:37.39 | Twingy | and in that case I'd have a quad to myself, heh |
| 23:37.55 | Twingy | I called about suits |
| 23:37.59 | Twingy | ~$1200 a night |
| 23:38.04 | Twingy | suites |
| 23:38.06 | ``Erik | yowch |
| 23:38.40 | ``Erik | and I assume they dont' have 8 beds? heh |
| 23:38.51 | Twingy | we could probly get one with 7 people staying in one |
| 23:38.58 | ``Erik | that'd be over per diem |
| 23:39.04 | Twingy | that's alright |
| 23:39.06 | Twingy | it's a suite |
| 23:39.13 | Twingy | you are so finicky about money you know that :) |
| 23:39.38 | ``Erik | um, heh, I'm paying over per diem for this lodging, you're not, dude |
| 23:40.00 | ``Erik | also; I have responsibilities now, I can't be throwing money around like you |
| 23:40.01 | Twingy | so shack up with jason, prasaid, mike or tim |
| 23:40.14 | Twingy | heh, responsitibilities *snicker* |
| 23:40.15 | ``Erik | I have to be a grown-up... my baby's depending on me |
| 23:40.39 | Twingy | you irc'ing from the garage? |
| 23:40.46 | ``Erik | always |
| 23:40.50 | ``Erik | o.O kitchen, actually |
| 23:40.54 | ``Erik | it was a metaphorical pet |
| 23:41.22 | ``Erik | dr who at 9 |
| 23:41.30 | Twingy | yea, looks like total suckage though |
| 23:41.44 | ``Erik | it might be... the new doc seems like a yokel goob |
| 23:41.53 | ``Erik | and; he ain't baker. |
| 23:42.08 | Twingy | I should call chuck |
| 23:42.15 | ``Erik | he's busy playing tribes, or working |
| 23:44.11 | ``Erik | so what're you gonna do if sean gives you a hitler?:D |
| 23:44.26 | Twingy | I'll be drunk, I won't care |
| 23:44.55 | Twingy | but after the trip I'll smash his flat panels :) |
| 23:46.26 | Twingy | don't spill any teqilla on it |
| 23:46.34 | Twingy | *tequilla |
| 23:46.43 | ``Erik | pjt bounced back my oconus with a couple really minor changes today, I THINK he may've signed it to send off to the expanse |
| 23:46.53 | ``Erik | *splash* *ZZZTTTTTT* |
| 23:56.57 | Twingy | tsp did well this week |
| 23:59.52 | Twingy | I suspect I will hit 40k on my tsp sometime this year |
| 00:04.05 | Twingy | I think I'm gonna work on my cam software tonight |
| 00:14.31 | Twingy | welp, I'm done work for the day |
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| 04:20.21 | Twingy | woo |
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| 06:19.00 | birdmun | so i generated a rim but each time i draw it i get an error msg |
| 06:19.05 | birdmun | Warning: region unioned into region at '/finhub1.c/hub1.c/fullhub1.r/hubfr1.r', lower region info ignored |
| 06:19.24 | birdmun | any good ways to avoid this in the future? |
| 06:31.42 | Twingy | hrm |
| 06:32.02 | Twingy | if I were coherent I could help you |
| 06:39.06 | birdmun | i understand :) |
| 06:39.37 | birdmun | i have logging enabled ... even if i dont get a response in the next couple hours i will still be able to find it |
| 06:40.31 | Twingy | stop back at 12PM EST |
| 06:40.37 | Twingy | people will be awake then |
| 06:40.52 | birdmun | np |
| 07:13.49 | brlcad | birdmun: yes, don't make regions out of regions :) |
| 07:14.24 | brlcad | marking something as a region is what defines that object as taking up physical space |
| 07:14.45 | brlcad | in any given CSG hierarchy, there should only be one region along any given path down the hierarchy |
| 07:15.11 | brlcad | you have two there.. fullhub1.r unioned hubfr1.r.. it shouldn't |
| 07:15.40 | brlcad | it should either union what's inside hubfb1.r or hubfb1.r shouldn't be a region in the first place |
| 07:16.30 | brlcad | all depends on the model as for what's the best solution |
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| 07:25.49 | birdmun_ | what i did was made a cylinder and then removed two cylinders from it ... one on each side |
| 07:26.02 | birdmun_ | so i was disconnected for a few moments what did i miss? |
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| 14:43.10 | brlcad | birdmun_: from the sound of it, there is likely that there was nothing wrong with your CSG operations |
| 14:43.25 | brlcad | just an error in how you're using/understanding what it means to be a region |
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| 14:58.12 | brlcad | takes a while for new modelers, but think of the difference as being a pattern for a shape versus being actual material |
| 17:27.01 | birdmun_ | ok can i add a region to a region ? |
| 17:28.15 | birdmun_ | if i would have removed the inside from a cylinder and then added the center of the rim as a completed unit ... design, bolt holes and all |
| 18:18.55 | brlcad | you can add a region to a region, but you're not supposed to -- you should only add combinations to regions and regions to combinations |
| 18:19.03 | brlcad | or combinations to combinations |
| 18:19.11 | brlcad | but not regions to regions |
| 18:19.59 | brlcad | again it has nothing to do with the CSG operation -- you can remove insides, add to the center, etc.. none of that is a problem |
| 18:20.14 | brlcad | the problem is at what level in the hierarchy are you calling objects a region |
| 18:22.27 | brlcad | you might benefit from not having/using any regions for starters until the modeling hierarchy is a little more familiar |
| 19:31.42 | birdmun_ | alright |
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| 05:25.26 | pra5ad-sj | =) |
| 05:54.30 | brlcad | heh |
| 06:09.19 | pra5ad-sj | they gave me an equinox |
| 06:09.24 | pra5ad-sj | im not an suv person |
| 06:10.49 | pra5ad-sj | heh so i go looking for food and stumble across ebay HQ |
| 06:11.15 | pra5ad-sj | they have signs all over that says "we're hiring" |
| 06:21.49 | pra5ad-sj | omg there's a japanese channel |
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| 16:10.41 | Maloeran | Justin or Erik, are you nearby? |
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| 16:13.28 | *** mode/#brlcad [+o learner] by irc.freenode.net | |
| 20:06.49 | *** join/#brlcad Obscene_CNN (n=DiscoBan@owt-64-146-239-67.owt.com) | |
| 20:14.14 | *** join/#brlcad tegtmeye (n=tegtmeye@bz.bzflag.bz) | |
| 20:14.44 | tegtmeye | brlcad, killed it again, can you reset? Sorry;) |
| 20:23.41 | brlcad | done |
| 20:23.51 | tegtmeye | thanks |
| 20:28.51 | tegtmeye | the server appears to be dead. |
| 20:28.59 | tegtmeye | http that is... |
| 21:21.15 | brlcad | pra5ad: how is it? |
| 22:01.14 | tegtmeye | eh? |
| 22:15.49 | ``Erik | o.O |
| 22:30.44 | CIA-5 | BRL-CAD: 03jlowenz 07trimnurbs-branch * 10brlcad/include/nurb.h: added new nurbs function declarations |
| 22:33.19 | CIA-5 | BRL-CAD: 03jlowenz 07trimnurbs-branch * 10brlcad/src/librt/g_nurb.c: fixed function names to make more sense |
| 22:33.37 | CIA-5 | BRL-CAD: 03jlowenz 07trimnurbs-branch * 10brlcad/src/librt/nurb_util.c: fixed function name to make more sense; fixed compiler warning |
| 22:50.47 | tegtmeye | worked thanks... |
| 03:16.45 | *** join/#brlcad pra5ad-sj (n=prasad@205-179-79-138.client.dsl.net) | |
| 03:17.15 | pra5ad-sj | so i got a potential customer for pvt |
| 03:17.16 | pra5ad-sj | lol |
| 03:35.49 | brlcad | you're supposed to stay logged in all day to provide streaming updates |
| 03:36.12 | brlcad | photos of the good stuff |
| 03:36.19 | brlcad | running commentary |
| 03:40.55 | *** join/#brlcad jbabcock (n=jbabcock@c-68-55-87-183.hsd1.md.comcast.net) | |
| 03:41.11 | pra5ad-sj | dude no wifi till weds |
| 03:41.18 | pra5ad-sj | until expo starts |
| 03:41.31 | pra5ad-sj | and nothing worth of any pics =( |
| 03:41.43 | pra5ad-sj | well not yet; besides maybe the cg gallery |
| 03:42.13 | pra5ad-sj | i was pitching damage models to redstorm (of rainbow six fame) |
| 03:42.20 | pra5ad-sj | got contacts |
| 03:42.58 | pra5ad-sj | talked to a guy from intel research |
| 03:43.13 | jbabcock | hi folks, are there any recommended tutorials/docs for a neophyte other than what's available at http://www.brlcad.org/? |
| 03:43.19 | pra5ad-sj | wants to know my 'requirements' for realtime raytracing h/w |
| 03:52.27 | brlcad | jbabcock: those are the usual starting points |
| 03:52.39 | brlcad | there's also help inside of mged on the help menu, albeit slightly dated |
| 03:52.49 | jbabcock | ok, thanks. Already looking over them. |
| 03:53.23 | pra5ad-sj | tomorrow is m$ day |
| 03:53.25 | pra5ad-sj | =( |
| 03:56.17 | brlcad | jbabcock: there's a pretty nice and short tutorial here too: http://sourceforge.net/forum/forum.php?thread_id=1447646&forum_id=362509 |
| 03:56.45 | jbabcock | thanks |
| 03:57.19 | *** join/#brlcad PrezKennedy (n=Apathy@c-68-33-243-45.hsd1.md.comcast.net) | |
| 03:58.04 | brlcad | pra5ad: until the expo starts? that's odd .. |
| 03:58.35 | pra5ad-sj | yea |
| 03:58.41 | pra5ad-sj | im sorta dissapointed |
| 03:58.54 | pra5ad-sj | it doesnt look to be well organized |
| 03:58.59 | pra5ad-sj | at least not as well as J1 |
| 03:59.07 | brlcad | heh |
| 03:59.21 | brlcad | it also costs less than a third iirc |
| 03:59.22 | pra5ad-sj | im not knocking the subject matter =) |
| 03:59.46 | pra5ad-sj | j1? twice as much |
| 03:59.53 | brlcad | only twice? :) |
| 03:59.58 | pra5ad-sj | heh |
| 04:00.14 | pra5ad-sj | i can compare siggraph in august |
| 04:00.24 | brlcad | siggraph is usually massively well organized |
| 04:00.35 | pra5ad-sj | we'll see how 1/3price affects it |
| 04:00.49 | pra5ad-sj | heh m$ are such bastards |
| 04:00.56 | pra5ad-sj | right in the middle of the convention center |
| 04:00.59 | pra5ad-sj | a wet bar |
| 04:01.03 | pra5ad-sj | i mean wtf |
| 04:01.43 | brlcad | heh, excellent |
| 04:01.53 | pra5ad-sj | im gonna be in line on weds .. early morning |
| 04:02.00 | pra5ad-sj | schwag raid |
| 04:02.21 | brlcad | hm |
| 04:02.36 | brlcad | just remember |
| 04:02.41 | pra5ad-sj | want an XNA cd? got one with the crappy reg stuff |
| 04:02.46 | brlcad | what happens in san jose stays in san jose |
| 04:03.08 | pra5ad-sj | this place is desolate |
| 04:03.22 | pra5ad-sj | every restaurant here is empty |
| 04:03.37 | brlcad | how big has the conference gotten? |
| 04:03.42 | brlcad | couple thousand? |
| 04:03.51 | brlcad | guess the expo opening will be th most telling |
| 04:03.52 | pra5ad-sj | yea sounds about right |
| 04:04.02 | pra5ad-sj | not many mon/tues |
| 04:04.07 | pra5ad-sj | lots for the expo |
| 04:04.14 | pra5ad-sj | and the keynotes, im sure |
| 04:04.28 | pra5ad-sj | cant wait till friday |
| 04:04.45 | pra5ad-sj | im gonna bug scea about my cell dev kit |
| 04:04.47 | pra5ad-sj | =) |
| 04:04.49 | brlcad | can't imagine it's as big as siggraph yet |
| 04:04.54 | pra5ad-sj | oh hell no |
| 04:04.59 | pra5ad-sj | j1 was bigger |
| 04:05.28 | brlcad | you hear/remember the official stat on how many attended j1 last year? |
| 04:05.42 | pra5ad-sj | dont remember |
| 04:05.47 | pra5ad-sj | i think 2-3k? |
| 04:06.14 | pra5ad-sj | i remember someone saying it was way smaller than siggraph |
| 04:06.16 | pra5ad-sj | so *shrug* |
| 04:06.30 | pra5ad-sj | SJ is one clean city tho |
| 04:06.37 | pra5ad-sj | the light rail is awesome |
| 04:07.24 | brlcad | mm, sun says j1 was about 15k last year.. |
| 04:07.42 | pra5ad-sj | hmm interesting |
| 04:07.47 | pra5ad-sj | sum of 5 days? heh |
| 04:07.55 | pra5ad-sj | i certainly didnt see 15k ppl |
| 04:08.00 | brlcad | undoubtedly includes everyone that just passes through the expo floor |
| 04:08.37 | pra5ad-sj | man most of the coders from the big houses |
| 04:08.42 | pra5ad-sj | like bioware and bethesda |
| 04:08.50 | pra5ad-sj | havent seen a treadmill in ages |
| 04:09.06 | pra5ad-sj | heehee |
| 04:09.21 | brlcad | not too unbelievable, siggraph 2005 was about 30k |
| 04:09.35 | brlcad | i can imagine.. |
| 04:09.46 | pra5ad-sj | lots of koreans and japanese here |
| 04:10.08 | pra5ad-sj | i cant seem to find the square-enix ppl |
| 04:13.35 | pra5ad-sj | dont really care much for the gpgpu stuff |
| 04:14.16 | pra5ad-sj | went to the 'embodied agents in games' tutorial |
| 04:14.22 | pra5ad-sj | 8hrs of powerpoint... |
| 05:44.47 | *** join/#brlcad Maloeran (n=maloeran@glvortex.net) | |
| 07:35.23 | *** join/#brlcad pra5ad (n=pra5ad@pool-141-157-106-216.balt.east.verizon.net) | |
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| 13:51.21 | *** mode/#brlcad [+o learner] by ChanServ | |
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| 03:20.50 | Twingy | hey mal |
| 03:21.04 | Maloeran | Hi Justin, having fun with xml then? :) |
| 03:21.22 | Twingy | no, gtk+ switch from item factory to xml shit for menu bars |
| 03:21.56 | Twingy | I'm disgruntled cause I have to press buttons on my keyboard to fix |
| 03:22.10 | Twingy | I'd rather be eating rice krispy treats |
| 03:22.11 | Maloeran | I personally never got the interest about xml, besides being slow to parse, akward and huge in size |
| 03:22.17 | Maloeran | Eheh |
| 03:47.44 | brlcad | mm.. rice krispies |
| 03:56.28 | Twingy | mmm fig newtony goodness *Drool* |
| 03:57.57 | *** join/#brlcad pra5ad-sj (n=prasad@205-179-79-138.client.dsl.net) | |
| 03:58.02 | pra5ad-sj | arrr |
| 03:58.02 | Twingy | hrm, I need to find a nice pool table |
| 03:58.37 | pra5ad-sj | i need business cards |
| 03:58.51 | Twingy | "Professional Male Slut" ? |
| 03:58.52 | pra5ad-sj | feel so ashamed saying 'uh.. i dont have one' |
| 03:58.54 | Twingy | :) |
| 03:59.29 | pra5ad-sj | so two new contacts today |
| 03:59.36 | pra5ad-sj | saic and zombie games |
| 03:59.48 | pra5ad-sj | they've apparently created a game based on fcs |
| 03:59.53 | pra5ad-sj | looks interesting |
| 03:59.58 | pra5ad-sj | will get demo soon |
| 04:00.15 | Twingy | whut's fcs |
| 04:00.20 | pra5ad-sj | it's more pr than anything else; but playable |
| 04:00.28 | pra5ad-sj | future combat systems? |
| 04:00.37 | Twingy | oh, FCS |
| 04:00.45 | pra5ad-sj | .. yes |
| 04:01.08 | pra5ad-sj | spent the day at the serious games summit |
| 04:01.15 | pra5ad-sj | lots of fluff talk by academics |
| 04:01.20 | Twingy | is that where you are? |
| 04:01.23 | pra5ad-sj | quite amusing |
| 04:01.36 | pra5ad-sj | naw, no wifi until tomorrow |
| 04:01.41 | pra5ad-sj | when expo starts |
| 04:01.55 | Twingy | heh, I thought you were upstairs today, hehe |
| 04:02.18 | pra5ad-sj | wont be until next week ;) |
| 04:02.33 | Twingy | I think dixie is missing a tps report from you |
| 04:02.39 | pra5ad-sj | got two books on opengl and realistic rendering |
| 04:02.41 | Twingy | j/k :) |
| 04:02.45 | pra5ad-sj | im sure she is |
| 04:02.52 | pra5ad-sj | and she cant do a damn thing about it |
| 04:03.12 | pra5ad-sj | found a way to render csg in opengl |
| 04:03.21 | pra5ad-sj | gonna implement that when i get back just for kicks |
| 04:03.55 | Twingy | using depth and stencil buffer me thinks |
| 04:04.44 | pra5ad-sj | heh it sucks not being a real game designer; dont have anything to say to em besides the ones involved with dod or military based tactical shooters |
| 04:04.50 | pra5ad-sj | and i already met them all |
| 04:04.54 | pra5ad-sj | Twingy, yea |
| 04:06.04 | brlcad | i miss my pool table |
| 04:06.16 | pra5ad-sj | and all i can really ask them is 'uh.. u guys need a better damage model?' |
| 04:06.23 | brlcad | but man is that a bear to move.. worse than a piano |
| 04:06.55 | Twingy | worse than moving a couch downstairs? |
| 04:07.00 | Twingy | by yourself? :) |
| 04:07.00 | brlcad | yeah |
| 04:07.53 | pra5ad-sj | why are u moving pool tables by urself |
| 04:07.58 | brlcad | they're several hundred pounds heavy, the really nice ones have a solid slab of granite or other marble for the surface |
| 04:08.37 | Twingy | the alternative is to install a slip n' slide in the basement |
| 04:08.50 | pra5ad-sj | heh tegtmeye should be here |
| 04:08.52 | pra5ad-sj | c++ heaven |
| 04:11.13 | pra5ad-sj | ohh gdc synopsis on /. |
| 04:11.41 | Twingy | any cute chicks there? |
| 04:12.40 | pra5ad-sj | sure; the wannabe hippie artsy types |
| 04:12.53 | pra5ad-sj | self proclaimed game designing gods |
| 04:13.29 | Twingy | glBegin(GL_Polygamy); |
| 04:13.29 | pra5ad-sj | =) |
| 04:14.35 | pra5ad-sj | u know, from the descriptions of siggraph that uve given me, i can say that gdc is inching closer to that demographic |
| 04:14.58 | pra5ad-sj | there are less programmers than biz/arts/designer types |
| 04:16.22 | pra5ad-sj | hah http://games.slashdot.org/games/06/03/21/220232.shtml |
| 04:16.30 | pra5ad-sj | i was at the jesper juul talk |
| 04:16.47 | pra5ad-sj | he was trying to answer 'can a video game make you cry' |
| 04:17.11 | pra5ad-sj | and his conclusion was - only user created content makes ppl cry |
| 04:17.17 | pra5ad-sj | which is such bullshit |
| 04:17.41 | pra5ad-sj | more fud from academia |
| 04:17.50 | Maloeran | I remember feeling tears from ff6 on snes |
| 04:18.03 | Twingy | I suspect if the video game sprayed mace in your face everytime your character died you would cry o.O |
| 04:18.04 | pra5ad-sj | same with ff7 |
| 04:18.16 | brlcad | the artsy side of siggraph sure makes for better eye candy |
| 04:18.25 | pra5ad-sj | no doubt |
| 04:18.29 | brlcad | especially the artsy attendees |
| 04:18.36 | Twingy | mmm artsy attendees |
| 04:18.43 | Twingy | ...in the cute little vests |
| 04:18.58 | Twingy | two chick at the same time man |
| 04:19.10 | pra5ad-sj | in one vest? |
| 04:19.17 | brlcad | heh, that was on just yesterday |
| 04:19.25 | brlcad | sci fi was playing it i think |
| 04:19.28 | Twingy | watch your cornhole prasad |
| 04:19.32 | brlcad | heh |
| 04:19.53 | pra5ad-sj | chappelle? |
| 04:20.13 | pra5ad-sj | .. is not sci fi |
| 04:20.57 | pra5ad-sj | sci fi played that? |
| 04:20.59 | brlcad | don't worry pra5ad, they let you have conjugial visits |
| 04:21.14 | brlcad | ~spell conjugal |
| 04:21.17 | pra5ad-sj | mmm kay |
| 04:21.47 | pra5ad-sj | hows ARHelL |
| 04:22.00 | brlcad | peachy |
| 04:22.14 | pra5ad-sj | hmph |
| 04:22.31 | pra5ad-sj | there's gonna be about 20 booths with recruiters |
| 04:22.37 | pra5ad-sj | for major companies |
| 04:22.43 | pra5ad-sj | game* companies |
| 04:22.47 | pra5ad-sj | and i have 0 resumes |
| 04:22.48 | brlcad | that's a meat grinder |
| 04:23.04 | pra5ad-sj | not that i have a chance anyways =) |
| 04:25.14 | Maloeran | I would expect ARL's research to be more satisfying than highly controlled and stressing game programming |
| 04:25.15 | Twingy | you could always try and give one of the booth people a happy ending |
| 04:26.30 | pra5ad-sj | stress trying to meet deadlines or trying to hurdle over miles of red tape |
| 04:26.31 | Twingy | sean, I'm going to advocate sgi machins running BeOS in our meeting tomorrow just to play with drew |
| 04:26.36 | pra5ad-sj | *shrug* |
| 04:27.41 | pra5ad-sj | heh i ran into a java game that i first saw as an alpha test at javaone2005 |
| 04:27.50 | pra5ad-sj | looks like they're in final beta |
| 04:27.58 | pra5ad-sj | www.tribaltrouble.com |
| 04:28.08 | pra5ad-sj | uses jogl |
| 04:29.01 | brlcad | Twingy: hehe |
| 04:29.10 | brlcad | that'd be awesome |
| 04:29.21 | brlcad | probably would run faster |
| 04:29.33 | brlcad | if such a beast were possible |
| 04:30.16 | pra5ad-sj | man if i ever get the damn cell dev kit and port adrt or whatever distributed rt on it |
| 04:30.20 | Twingy | if we can talk steve into a 12 node linux machine, I might be tempted to go with that over the apple :) |
| 04:30.38 | pra5ad-sj | ARL will be going to e3 2k6 or gdc 2k7 |
| 04:30.50 | Twingy | you mean you will? |
| 04:30.54 | Twingy | :) |
| 04:31.10 | pra5ad-sj | nah |
| 04:31.15 | pra5ad-sj | u can talk about the guts of it |
| 04:31.19 | brlcad | can't imagine easily justifying e3 |
| 04:31.21 | pra5ad-sj | ill just talk about the portage |
| 04:31.28 | brlcad | unless you're presenting |
| 04:31.29 | pra5ad-sj | hey, if we get invited... |
| 04:31.31 | pra5ad-sj | yes |
| 04:32.11 | pra5ad-sj | and im damn sure sony wants some sort of 'killer app' for the ps3 |
| 04:32.23 | pra5ad-sj | something that'll warrant this delay |
| 04:32.43 | pra5ad-sj | and something that'll show the 'power' of the ppu/spus |
| 04:33.48 | Maloeran | Cell really is a nice architecture, perfect on the ISA side of things. Unified memory banks, Itanium-style, could have been nicer though... for ray-tracing anyway :) |
| 04:34.21 | pra5ad-sj | hehe |
| 04:34.44 | pra5ad-sj | when i talked to the intel guy yesteday |
| 04:34.53 | pra5ad-sj | (not sure if i said this already but..) |
| 04:35.00 | pra5ad-sj | he said intel was more afraid of cell than amd |
| 04:35.07 | pra5ad-sj | er whatever amd is putting out |
| 04:35.24 | Maloeran | They should be, AMD is stuck within the standards Intel created and it greatly limits performance |
| 04:36.23 | Maloeran | Cell is an excellent architecture designed from scratch, it's about time IBM shows Intel what a good standard looks like |
| 04:37.18 | pra5ad-sj | this is unofficial but, he mentioned having a microengine in future chips |
| 04:37.19 | Maloeran | The only "flaws" might be the 32 bits addressing and the chip-specific memory banks, but it's a tradeoff |
| 04:37.38 | pra5ad-sj | 3 gp cores and an app specific one |
| 04:37.55 | pra5ad-sj | that'd be interesting to see |
| 04:38.05 | pra5ad-sj | tho i dont think that'll come to fruition |
| 04:38.31 | Maloeran | There are verious serious flaws within ia32/amd64 that prevent any kind of scability like Cell allows |
| 04:38.53 | Maloeran | Intel fixed the scability issues with Itanium, but they messed up horribly on other points |
| 04:39.44 | pra5ad-sj | hmm i really should read up on cell's isa |
| 04:39.50 | pra5ad-sj | got a link handy? |
| 04:40.08 | Maloeran | Hum I don't have that bookmarked, it shouldn't be hard to find |
| 04:41.40 | Maloeran | Far superior in design and usability to Altivec, I wouldn't dare comparing SSE against Cell |
| 06:00.58 | pra5ad-sj | how do i batch rename a bunch of jpgs that have spaces in the filename |
| 06:02.02 | Twingy | find . -exec mv {} `sed s/ //g {}` \; |
| 06:02.14 | Twingy | might wanna through a -name "*.jpg" |
| 06:02.23 | Twingy | find . -name "*.jpg" -exec mv {} `sed s/ //g {}` \; |
| 06:07.20 | pra5ad-sj | :. find . -name "*.jpg" -exec mv {} `sed s/ //g {}` \; |
| 06:07.20 | pra5ad-sj | sed: -e expression #1, char 2: unterminated `s' command |
| 06:07.20 | pra5ad-sj | mv: missing file argument |
| 06:08.33 | Twingy | oh yea, the brackets |
| 06:10.47 | pra5ad-sj | ? |
| 06:11.54 | Twingy | chatting, afk |
| 06:48.47 | CIA-5 | BRL-CAD: 03brlcad 07rel-7-6-branch * 10brlcad/configure.ac: more detail on the libtool cc1plus bug, fixed in libtool 1.5.10 but broken in previous versions where a c++ compiler becomes required.. try to bypass the error by aliasing cc1plus to cc1 (untested) |
| 06:48.58 | Twingy | k |
| 06:48.58 | Twingy | uh |
| 06:55.54 | CIA-5 | BRL-CAD: 03brlcad 07rel-7-6-branch * 10brlcad/configure.ac: erp, previous commit included a conflicted merge from head .. unconflict |
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| 16:58.17 | CIA-5 | BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/sh/tracker.sh: |
| 16:58.17 | CIA-5 | BRL-CAD: initial script that interacts with the Sourceforge website and extracts data |
| 16:58.17 | CIA-5 | BRL-CAD: from the trackers available for a given project. the tracker data is |
| 16:58.17 | CIA-5 | BRL-CAD: conglomerated into a CSV file suitable for import into a spreadsheet |
| 16:58.17 | CIA-5 | BRL-CAD: application. |
| 16:59.18 | CIA-5 | BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/sh/Makefile.am: include the new tracker.sh in the distribution, install it |
| 17:02.50 | CIA-5 | BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/NEWS: new tracker tool for extracting sf.net tracker data |
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| 21:04.54 | CIA-5 | BRL-CAD: 03jlowenz 07trimnurbs-branch * 10brlcad/include/Makefile.am: added the rt.h header so it would be installed |
| 21:06.01 | CIA-5 | BRL-CAD: 03jlowenz 07trimnurbs-branch * 10brlcad/include/nurb.h: Added magic check for trim_contour struct. |
| 21:06.54 | CIA-5 | BRL-CAD: 03jlowenz 07trimnurbs-branch * 10brlcad/src/librt/nurb_util.c: Added function to free trim_contour structure, and the list of curves it contains. |
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| 02:19.57 | pra5ad-sj | agh |
| 02:19.59 | pra5ad-sj | so tired |
| 02:20.10 | pra5ad-sj | ps3 keynote was cool |
| 02:20.23 | pra5ad-sj | i swear if phil harrison was selling dog shit ppl would buy it |
| 02:20.31 | pra5ad-sj | great spokesman |
| 02:20.38 | pra5ad-sj | motorstorm looked FANTASTIC |
| 02:29.34 | ``Erik | bring me back a boothbabe or 3 |
| 02:29.46 | ``Erik | (or does gdc have those?) |
| 02:53.10 | Twingy | my pbring me back a bag of dog shit |
| 02:55.53 | pra5ad-sj | heh only s3 had them |
| 02:55.59 | pra5ad-sj | and this korean publisher |
| 02:56.01 | pra5ad-sj | venus something |
| 02:56.17 | pra5ad-sj | noone really cared tho heh |
| 02:58.48 | ``Erik | mmmm, korean girls... |
| 02:59.39 | pra5ad-sj | i got the runaround at the ps3 booth |
| 02:59.42 | Twingy | oh man |
| 02:59.43 | Twingy | that's nasty |
| 03:00.01 | pra5ad-sj | now i gotta go hunt this guy to order a ps3 dev kit |
| 03:00.09 | pra5ad-sj | $5k says phil harrison |
| 03:01.52 | pra5ad-sj | rofl twas funny going around the 'career growth' booths for the big names and asking what their dmg models were |
| 03:01.59 | pra5ad-sj | HR ppl are funny |
| 03:02.19 | pra5ad-sj | 'um.. are you looking for a job?' |
| 03:02.22 | pra5ad-sj | heehee |
| 03:02.58 | pra5ad-sj | redstorm's booth had a dev who knew his shit |
| 03:03.10 | pra5ad-sj | talked about what they were doing in sp/mp modes |
| 03:03.22 | CIA-5 | BRL-CAD: 03johnranderson * 10brlcad/src/librt/db_tree.c: |
| 03:03.22 | CIA-5 | BRL-CAD: db_recurse() was trying to free an rt_db_internal that might not have |
| 03:03.22 | CIA-5 | BRL-CAD: anything in it (bug #1220146) |
| 03:03.26 | pra5ad-sj | they want to have a dialogue on it |
| 03:03.39 | pra5ad-sj | good opportunity me thinks |
| 03:04.04 | pra5ad-sj | garage games' booth was very disspointing |
| 03:04.10 | pra5ad-sj | legions was bleh |
| 03:04.22 | pra5ad-sj | it was nothing more than a tech demo |
| 03:04.26 | pra5ad-sj | a simple one at that |
| 03:05.40 | pra5ad-sj | i was also at the AI roundtable |
| 03:06.09 | pra5ad-sj | one academic was talking about using a ps3 to replace his cluster for GA/ANN simulations |
| 03:09.52 | brlcad | john rocks |
| 03:11.08 | pra5ad-sj | hey sean |
| 03:11.10 | pra5ad-sj | see my email? |
| 03:11.34 | brlcad | yeah |
| 03:11.38 | pra5ad-sj | heh |
| 03:11.56 | brlcad | so you're going to start listening |
| 03:12.00 | brlcad | bridge that abyss |
| 03:12.02 | pra5ad-sj | i have no motivation to do what he suggested |
| 03:12.11 | pra5ad-sj | so no |
| 03:12.12 | pra5ad-sj | =) |
| 03:12.51 | brlcad | missed an excellent biceps/triceps pairing today |
| 03:12.58 | pra5ad-sj | dont u think that role should be taken by the PM? |
| 03:13.07 | brlcad | no comment |
| 03:13.14 | pra5ad-sj | wha |
| 03:28.32 | pra5ad-sj | o yea |
| 03:28.46 | pra5ad-sj | there were these ppl with endlagnow.org signs |
| 03:28.50 | pra5ad-sj | hehe |
| 03:30.04 | pra5ad-sj | oh it's an actualy site :o |
| 03:30.08 | pra5ad-sj | -y |
| 04:24.15 | CIA-5 | BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/NEWS: |
| 04:24.15 | CIA-5 | BRL-CAD: john fixed the mged crash bug where running the B command on bad geometry would |
| 04:24.15 | CIA-5 | BRL-CAD: cause the crash. he reports that This was caused by a bug in db_recurse() where |
| 04:24.15 | CIA-5 | BRL-CAD: it would try to free an rt_db_internal even when there was nothing to free. The |
| 04:24.15 | CIA-5 | BRL-CAD: fix was to check that there is actually something there before freeing. This |
| 04:24.17 | CIA-5 | BRL-CAD: eliminates the crashing, but the bad geometry will still not be drawn. (fixes sf |
| 04:24.19 | CIA-5 | BRL-CAD: bug 1220146, reported by Karel Kulhavy - clock3) |
| 04:34.39 | *** join/#brlcad DTRemenak (n=DTRemena@c-67-187-164-66.hsd1.ca.comcast.net) | |
| 05:19.13 | pra5ad-sj | retired john? |
| 05:20.41 | Twingy | |
| 05:36.14 | pra5ad-sj | ah yes.. knew i forgot something |
| 05:36.27 | pra5ad-sj | warhawk uses a raytracer to render volumetric clouds |
| 05:36.35 | pra5ad-sj | will use* |
| 05:36.43 | pra5ad-sj | and the raytracer is running on a single spu |
| 05:36.52 | pra5ad-sj | the demo was proof of it |
| 05:37.00 | pra5ad-sj | and looks well integrated |
| 07:34.30 | *** join/#brlcad daggerr (n=daggerr@c83-248-174-134.bredband.comhem.se) | |
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| 17:01.14 | tegtmeye | she has no idea what she is talking about |
| 20:42.48 | CIA-5 | BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/configure.ac: itcl/tk needs to match tcl/tk building default of 'on' until the bugs are sorted out |
| 23:23.38 | Twingy | mmm dinner |
| 23:23.57 | tegtmeye | uh, I guess it *is* time to go home eh? |
| 23:24.58 | Twingy | only if you feel like being home I suppose :) |
| 23:25.44 | tegtmeye | girls feel better at home... |
| 23:26.30 | Twingy | compared to at work? |
| 23:27.34 | tegtmeye | do you *need* me to enumerate the women at work? |
| 23:28.05 | Twingy | what, you don't find darlene attractive? |
| 23:28.13 | Twingy | you had me fooled :) |
| 23:28.17 | tegtmeye | lol |
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| 23:40.30 | ``Erik | hah |
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| 00:26.17 | CIA-5 | BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/rt/rtarea.1: -v for viewsize is not longer that option |
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| 03:21.28 | *** join/#brlcad prasad (n=prasad@205-179-79-138.client.dsl.net) | |
| 03:21.41 | prasad | im turning into a marketing schill |
| 03:21.52 | prasad | trying to sell a product that doesnt exist |
| 03:26.12 | Twingy | then hurry up and write it |
| 03:27.49 | prasad | i told them justin shumaker was lead engineer |
| 03:27.55 | prasad | and to direct all technical questions to him |
| 03:28.00 | prasad | and gave them ur cell # |
| 03:28.07 | Twingy | good, cause I can get the shit done :) |
| 03:28.19 | prasad | ;) |
| 03:28.26 | prasad | so yea |
| 03:28.32 | Twingy | okay, living room is all torn up |
| 03:28.40 | prasad | sony is being a little bitch |
| 03:28.40 | Twingy | probly not as bad as mikes |
| 03:28.53 | prasad | wont sell me the dev kit unless i pose as a middleware company |
| 03:29.05 | prasad | now can i do that w/o arl backing? |
| 03:29.05 | Twingy | so start a middleware company? :) |
| 03:29.06 | prasad | =) |
| 03:29.16 | prasad | u got venture capital? |
| 03:29.23 | Twingy | cost you $125 to register a company in deleware |
| 03:29.24 | prasad | if so, lets do it |
| 03:29.39 | Twingy | you don't need vc |
| 03:29.49 | prasad | dev kit costs $$ |
| 03:29.51 | prasad | u got $5k? |
| 03:29.58 | Twingy | bittorent |
| 03:30.01 | prasad | that's the price point in 2 weeks |
| 03:30.08 | Twingy | yea :) |
| 03:30.16 | prasad | yes.. bittorrent hardware.. |
| 03:30.30 | Twingy | wouldn't spend it on that junk though |
| 03:30.48 | Twingy | I'd rather get a new dining room set and hardwood floor |
| 03:30.54 | Twingy | :) |
| 03:30.57 | prasad | im sure i can get wendy to buy one |
| 03:31.03 | Twingy | hah |
| 03:31.06 | Twingy | haha |
| 03:31.07 | prasad | posing as a middleware company might cause her to implode |
| 03:31.16 | prasad | u know it's on my objectives right? |
| 03:31.21 | Twingy | she is faaaaar to risk adverse |
| 03:31.22 | prasad | acquiring cell hardware? |
| 03:31.30 | Twingy | you'd have better luck getting it through bill |
| 03:31.48 | prasad | im allowed to circumvent the branch chief? |
| 03:31.48 | Twingy | he seems to be uncle warbucks lately |
| 03:31.59 | Twingy | no, but it didn't stop me with alexis |
| 03:32.14 | Twingy | she just doesn't know what's good for her |
| 03:32.26 | prasad | i didnt follow ur previous comment |
| 03:32.35 | prasad | u convinced her to bring on board alexis |
| 03:32.35 | Twingy | I didn't expect you to |
| 03:32.44 | Twingy | that's the perception, yes :) |
| 03:32.59 | prasad | well i convinced wendy to send me to gdc |
| 03:33.04 | prasad | so i have something going for me |
| 03:33.05 | prasad | =) |
| 03:33.08 | Twingy | cause it's training |
| 03:33.14 | Twingy | where's wendy today |
| 03:33.15 | Twingy | training |
| 03:33.19 | prasad | heh |
| 03:33.20 | Twingy | big surprise! |
| 03:33.49 | prasad | the sony guy was telling me about a company called mercury or something like that |
| 03:33.51 | prasad | from germany |
| 03:33.56 | prasad | that does real time rt |
| 03:33.58 | Twingy | I herd of them |
| 03:34.05 | Twingy | from siggraph 04 and 05 |
| 03:34.07 | prasad | apparently showcased at siggraph |
| 03:34.09 | prasad | ah |
| 03:34.33 | Twingy | yartc |
| 03:34.43 | prasad | so i have an intel and sony contact |
| 03:35.03 | prasad | waiting for ibm to email me back about dev kits |
| 03:35.14 | Twingy | find any women? |
| 03:35.20 | prasad | nop |
| 03:35.27 | Twingy | sheesh |
| 03:35.35 | prasad | u shouldnt be talking |
| 03:35.38 | prasad | =) |
| 03:35.39 | Twingy | hey |
| 03:35.58 | Twingy | last siggraph woulda been perfect if she didn't have a kid |
| 03:36.10 | prasad | uh huh |
| 03:36.16 | Twingy | there's always boston |
| 03:36.26 | Twingy | so I get to spin the wheel of siggraph again |
| 03:36.30 | prasad | heh u guys should see the will wright keynote |
| 03:36.33 | prasad | fucking hilarious |
| 03:36.47 | prasad | guy started talking about the russian space program |
| 03:36.49 | prasad | out of the blue |
| 03:36.55 | Twingy | you wanna see a good keynote, check out bruce sterlings from siggraph '04 |
| 03:36.58 | prasad | along with other random topics |
| 03:37.08 | Twingy | it'll keep you thinking long after you're done watching it |
| 03:37.09 | prasad | hey nintendo's keynote was excellent |
| 03:37.35 | prasad | they'll support all *NES games AND all SEGA saturn games |
| 03:37.41 | prasad | er the revolution will |
| 03:38.05 | Twingy | I wonder if I'll ever play video games again |
| 03:38.17 | Twingy | you know I haven't played one in over a year? |
| 03:38.20 | prasad | m$ has already lost the war |
| 03:38.24 | prasad | it's nintendo vs sony |
| 03:38.34 | Twingy | actually, I played 10 minutes of tux racer this year |
| 03:38.41 | prasad | didnt u play gta recently |
| 03:38.53 | Twingy | it's still sitting on the floor |
| 03:38.58 | prasad | oh yea.. nvidia's "advanced rendering effects" lecture was such BS |
| 03:39.03 | Twingy | I played that for 30 minutes at a friends house |
| 03:39.14 | prasad | it turned out to be a sales pitch for the havok fx physics engine |
| 03:39.15 | Twingy | heh |
| 03:39.18 | prasad | that runs on the nvidia gpu |
| 03:39.21 | prasad | sorta cool |
| 03:39.28 | prasad | but come on.. |
| 03:39.33 | Twingy | I'm sooooooooo over tooty fruity graphics tricks no matter how much math they try to soil it with |
| 03:39.42 | prasad | and i was one # away from getting that 7800gt in the raffele |
| 03:39.45 | prasad | :o |
| 03:39.59 | prasad | im with u |
| 03:40.07 | prasad | that's why i want rt hardware |
| 03:40.17 | Twingy | that's for the quasi-mathematicians |
| 03:40.30 | prasad | ? |
| 03:40.41 | Twingy | I'm more interested in engineering the appropriate hardware to solve my problems |
| 03:41.02 | prasad | im trying to do the same thing with hardware |
| 03:41.08 | Twingy | (assuming it cannot be done in a respectable manner on a general purpose cpu) |
| 03:41.18 | prasad | arent u bandwidth limited? |
| 03:41.25 | prasad | what's the peak fps |
| 03:41.29 | prasad | for stryker |
| 03:41.44 | Twingy | if siggraph spent all the man hours on quantum computing rather than graphics tricks, we'd be in a different era |
| 03:41.56 | Twingy | 1 node or cluster? |
| 03:42.01 | prasad | cluster |
| 03:42.11 | Twingy | oh, I can push 25 fps on the new cluster I think |
| 03:42.14 | prasad | and what's the performance of 4 nodes vs 6 vs 8 |
| 03:42.20 | Twingy | with alexis's that's about 150 fps |
| 03:42.32 | prasad | 25 bandwidth limited or are u not saturating the gig e? |
| 03:42.37 | Twingy | it's 90% linear |
| 03:42.48 | Twingy | I'm not even close to saturdation |
| 03:42.56 | prasad | ack |
| 03:43.02 | prasad | i thought u were |
| 03:43.03 | prasad | hmph |
| 03:43.05 | Twingy | nope |
| 03:43.11 | Twingy | everything is compressed |
| 03:43.23 | prasad | zlib? |
| 03:43.24 | Twingy | even uncompressed it'd take like 32 nodes to get close |
| 03:43.26 | Twingy | yes |
| 03:43.30 | Twingy | it's lame, but it works |
| 03:43.32 | prasad | whats the compression overhead |
| 03:43.38 | Twingy | minimal |
| 03:43.38 | Twingy | like 10% |
| 03:43.43 | prasad | k |
| 03:44.04 | Twingy | wait till you see alexis's stuff |
| 03:44.16 | Twingy | as much as a difference I made between adrt and brl-cad |
| 03:44.20 | prasad | ive been asking for a demo since forever |
| 03:44.22 | Twingy | there will be between adrt and alexis's stuff |
| 03:44.35 | Twingy | I'm not at liberty to hand one out |
| 03:45.37 | prasad | the only way i can get the ps3 dev kit is if i pose as a middleware person who can guarantee an RT api that runs on cell |
| 03:46.12 | prasad | good performance on 4 spus will be ideal |
| 03:46.20 | Twingy | I might be able to help you out |
| 03:46.28 | Twingy | talk to me next week |
| 03:46.33 | prasad | all it needs is to maintain 30fps |
| 03:46.37 | prasad | hdmi standard |
| 03:46.43 | Twingy | sure, but talk to me next week |
| 03:46.47 | prasad | k |
| 03:47.01 | prasad | ill hold off on talking to the sony rep till then |
| 03:47.36 | Twingy | I'd say there's a 70% chance we could get it based on new things happening |
| 03:47.49 | prasad | new things where |
| 03:48.06 | Twingy | in land of arl from high above |
| 03:48.11 | prasad | i see |
| 03:49.06 | Twingy | you could potentially work with alexis on this |
| 03:49.31 | prasad | true |
| 03:49.46 | Twingy | he is your best resource |
| 03:49.54 | prasad | but how do i get the go ahead from management |
| 03:50.07 | prasad | unless u mean circumvent arl altogether |
| 03:50.10 | Twingy | that's not an irc conversation |
| 03:50.13 | Twingy | no, it's legit |
| 03:50.19 | prasad | oh interesting |
| 03:50.22 | prasad | k we'll talk later |
| 03:50.43 | Twingy | yea |
| 03:51.13 | Twingy | if I were to guess, it'd be 4 - 8 months before you got it |
| 03:51.56 | prasad | heh |
| 03:53.19 | prasad | now selling this api will be pretty hard as a primary renderer |
| 03:53.36 | Twingy | do you know how to check your priv msgs? |
| 03:53.40 | prasad | completely discarding the rsx will be very bad |
| 03:53.56 | prasad | did u pm the wrong nick? |
| 03:54.02 | pra5ad-sj | pm me |
| 03:54.28 | Twingy | are you registered with nick serv? |
| 03:54.35 | pra5ad-sj | gah |
| 03:54.57 | pra5ad-sj | u on aim? |
| 03:55.01 | Twingy | yes |
| 04:06.36 | brlcad | bruce sterling was awesome at siggraph 2004, .. best .. keynote .. ever |
| 04:07.25 | brlcad | wait.. that's not who I'm thinking of :) |
| 04:07.42 | Twingy | it certainly wasn't lucas |
| 04:07.54 | pra5ad-sj | got a video? |
| 04:08.01 | brlcad | that's the worst in a long time |
| 04:08.15 | pra5ad-sj | went to the new m$ flight sim terrain gen lecture |
| 04:08.15 | Twingy | http://www.boingboing.net/images/blobjects.htm |
| 04:08.18 | Twingy | ^-- there |
| 04:08.18 | pra5ad-sj | very interesting stuff |
| 04:08.18 | brlcad | he just didn't give a damn to be there.. utterly boring to listen to |
| 04:08.29 | pra5ad-sj | procedural textures in software |
| 04:09.05 | brlcad | the guy i'm thinking of wasn't keynote |
| 04:09.21 | brlcad | maybe the lifetime achievement award |
| 04:09.31 | brlcad | talked about his work on sketch |
| 04:09.57 | brlcad | 8kb ram to work in for code and graphics |
| 04:10.01 | brlcad | or somesuch |
| 04:11.33 | brlcad | san diego iirc |
| 04:18.16 | Twingy | <PROTECTED> |
| 04:19.34 | brlcad | java? :) |
| 04:20.00 | Twingy | hmm :) |
| 04:20.05 | brlcad | apple! |
| 04:20.34 | pra5ad-sj | oh yea |
| 04:20.44 | pra5ad-sj | i talked to david carmein today |
| 04:20.47 | pra5ad-sj | met him up at lunch |
| 04:21.02 | pra5ad-sj | ceo of VSD inc (aka omni directional treadmill) |
| 04:21.17 | pra5ad-sj | interesting chap |
| 04:21.21 | pra5ad-sj | got good ideas |
| 04:21.29 | pra5ad-sj | lacks funding |
| 04:21.47 | brlcad | that device can't be cheap |
| 04:21.49 | pra5ad-sj | apparently the hamster ball treadmill idea was his (he is cited in their patent) |
| 04:22.57 | brlcad | you should tell him that he should demo the platform with someone playing bzflag |
| 04:23.08 | brlcad | or counterstrike or something |
| 04:23.10 | pra5ad-sj | heh hred wants a system w/o harness but the odt needs one for full immersion |
| 04:23.29 | pra5ad-sj | well hred is using some game engine coupled with the odt |
| 04:23.33 | pra5ad-sj | so he says |
| 04:23.42 | pra5ad-sj | perhaps there is a game tied into the system |
| 04:23.53 | pra5ad-sj | can find out when we go on the field trip |
| 04:24.06 | brlcad | mm.. bzflag compiled on the spot |
| 04:27.49 | pra5ad-sj | The following items were included in this shipment: |
| 04:27.50 | pra5ad-sj | --------------------------------------------------------------------- |
| 04:27.50 | pra5ad-sj | Qty Item Price Shipped Subtotal |
| 04:27.50 | pra5ad-sj | --------------------------------------------------------------------- |
| 04:27.50 | pra5ad-sj | <PROTECTED> |
| 04:27.55 | pra5ad-sj | ARRRRR! |
| 04:28.13 | pra5ad-sj | i swear it didn't cost that much when i bought it |
| 04:28.40 | brlcad | that's almost a new computer |
| 04:28.55 | pra5ad-sj | i know =( |
| 04:29.13 | pra5ad-sj | nintendo's brain game is fuckin brilliant |
| 04:29.17 | pra5ad-sj | i want to get a DS just for that |
| 04:29.32 | pra5ad-sj | treadmill for ur brain |
| 04:29.33 | pra5ad-sj | and it works |
| 04:29.45 | pra5ad-sj | they performed an experiement on stage at the keynote |
| 04:30.00 | pra5ad-sj | convinced me ^_^ |
| 04:32.06 | pra5ad-sj | so i did save a little.. normal price is $520 |
| 04:33.28 | brlcad | brain game? |
| 04:33.40 | pra5ad-sj | yea |
| 04:33.41 | brlcad | trying to smarten up the dulled massives |
| 04:33.46 | pra5ad-sj | the crazy japanese |
| 04:33.57 | pra5ad-sj | it's the fastest selling game in japan |
| 04:34.00 | brlcad | tired of selling to idiots |
| 04:34.07 | pra5ad-sj | and it only has math puzzles |
| 04:34.39 | pra5ad-sj | nintendo gave out free copies to everyone at the keynote |
| 04:34.54 | brlcad | now, if they could just combine the hamster treadmill thing with the brain game thing.. two problems would be taken care of |
| 04:34.59 | pra5ad-sj | i couldnt leave my seat cos will wright was up next and i didnt want to get back in that damn long line |
| 04:35.10 | pra5ad-sj | heh |
| 04:35.41 | pra5ad-sj | just wear a suit with million electrodes that produce eletric shocks |
| 05:31.54 | Twingy | only took 90 minutes too |
| 05:41.50 | pra5ad-sj | sketch? |
| 05:42.23 | brlcad | Twingy: for isst? |
| 05:42.24 | Twingy | yea, they let you talk for 15 minutes about something that's not beefy enough for a paper |
| 05:42.30 | Twingy | cnc milling |
| 05:42.34 | brlcad | heh |
| 05:42.53 | Twingy | there's 118 submitted so far |
| 05:42.57 | brlcad | eep |
| 05:43.01 | Twingy | typically they only pick about 50 |
| 05:43.22 | Twingy | so, I think I got atleast a 50% chance |
| 05:43.33 | Twingy | depends on who else does related stuff |
| 05:43.55 | Twingy | if they get one or two 3d printer guys |
| 05:44.02 | pra5ad-sj | heh |
| 05:44.06 | Twingy | then it could be quite likely |
| 05:44.39 | Twingy | either way I can try the milling again next year |
| 05:45.58 | pra5ad-sj | tomorrow is ps3/cell day |
| 05:46.13 | pra5ad-sj | waking up early to get a good seat |
| 05:46.26 | pra5ad-sj | way too many ppl today |
| 05:46.35 | pra5ad-sj | all lectures were overflowing |
| 05:47.54 | Twingy | sounds alot like siggraph |
| 05:48.05 | Twingy | minus the hangover |
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| 19:08.21 | CIA-5 | BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/include/rle_config.h: define USE_TIME_H to quell implicit declaration warnings of time() |
| 19:36.46 | CIA-5 | BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/other/ (65 files in 6 dirs): quell compiler warnings |
| 19:49.49 | CIA-5 | BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/other/blt/src/ (21 files): quell compiler warnings, missing header |
| 19:54.24 | CIA-5 | BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/libbu/bitv.c: argument is incompatible with corresponding format string conversion, go with %lx (might still need a cast on the value now for 32-bit systems), add missing stdlib.h header |
| 19:59.39 | CIA-5 | BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/libbu/bu_tcl.c: argument is incompatible with corresponding format string conversion, quell warnings by using long format specifiers instead |
| 20:02.06 | CIA-5 | BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/libbu/ (cmdhist.c ispar.c): quell compiler warning |
| 21:50.09 | CIA-5 | BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/libbu/malloc.c: quell some intel compiler warnings |
| 22:08.58 | CIA-5 | BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/libbu/ (cmdhist.c parse.c printb.c units.c vls.c): quell intel 9 compiler on altix warnings |
| 22:18.07 | CIA-5 | BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/libbu/vls.c: final touches, missing header |
| 22:19.21 | CIA-5 | BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/libbn/bn_tcl.c: ack, missing the %s for a slew of printfings, quell intel compiler warnings |
| 22:33.40 | CIA-5 | BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/librt/g_nurb.c: odd arguments that don't have print specifiers.. possible bug that should get looked into for the tclget serialization. |
| 23:22.07 | CIA-5 | BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/librt/ (20 files): lots of intel 9 for altix compiler warning quellings |
| 23:31.33 | CIA-5 | BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/librt/nurb_example.c: quell more intel 9 compiler warnings, reorder interpolate_data() to avoid decl |
| 23:45.49 | CIA-5 | BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/libpkg/pkg.c: quell intel 9 on altix compiler warnings |
| 00:04.28 | CIA-5 | BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/libfb/ (fb_obj.c fbserv_obj.c if_ogl.c tcl.c): quell intel on altix compiler warnings |
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| 00:29.47 | pra5ad-sj | alrighty |
| 00:29.56 | pra5ad-sj | went to an ibm talk on the cell |
| 00:30.16 | pra5ad-sj | apparently they have a strategic partnership with mercury |
| 00:30.32 | pra5ad-sj | interesting stuff nonetheless |
| 00:30.55 | pra5ad-sj | 16 cloth simulations running on 2 cells in smp |
| 00:31.22 | pra5ad-sj | cell blade will cost around $50k |
| 00:31.59 | pra5ad-sj | will be dual cpu |
| 00:39.57 | pra5ad-sj | oh and saw a raycasting demo of mt. rainier(sp?) |
| 00:40.06 | pra5ad-sj | not bad |
| 00:40.23 | pra5ad-sj | best demo was ATI's parallax occlusion map demo |
| 00:40.33 | pra5ad-sj | fixes issues related to normal maps |
| 00:40.38 | pra5ad-sj | damn well id say |
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| 20:51.52 | archivist | such a delightfull boy is Erik ! |
| 20:55.23 | ``Erik | and a sick one, to boot. |
| 20:56.29 | archivist | I would say have a stiff drink but I bet youve done that allready |
| 20:59.49 | ``Erik | oddly enough, I think I've had a total of 3 drinks the last week, I doubt they'd aid in my getting over this flu |
| 21:00.11 | ``Erik | lots of tea with honey and lemon juice... drank a freakin' pint of lemon juice this week o.O |
| 21:02.14 | archivist | just one dose of minor snots this winter |
| 21:35.10 | Twingy | why don't you just visit the doctor and get some antibiotics? |
| 21:35.29 | Twingy | makes alot more sense than coming to work sick every day |
| 21:35.42 | Twingy | some amoxacillian should fix you up |
| 21:36.17 | Twingy | *amoxicillin |
| 21:36.54 | Twingy | being sick for more than 48 days is silly |
| 21:36.58 | Twingy | err 48 hours |
| 21:37.17 | Twingy | especially when you can correct the situation for a mere $25 |
| 21:44.45 | archivist | send a vet |
| 21:52.49 | Twingy | back to flooring |
| 23:37.33 | ``Erik | 2 miles is vast? |
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| 03:13.17 | Twingy | good movie |
| 03:53.31 | brlcad | worth seeing? |
| 03:53.53 | Twingy | indeed |
| 03:53.56 | brlcad | rather.. worth paying $15 to see in theater |
| 03:54.06 | brlcad | mandatory popcorn and all |
| 03:54.15 | brlcad | or just worth seeing eventually |
| 03:56.03 | Twingy | I brought two smores granolla bars and a soda |
| 03:56.13 | Twingy | with torrenting atleast |
| 03:56.16 | Twingy | *worth |
| 03:56.20 | brlcad | 33heh |
| 04:10.08 | Twingy | sean |
| 04:10.12 | Twingy | where is vgrs |
| 04:10.23 | Twingy | XXX times faster? |
| 04:10.38 | Twingy | These numbers seem to indicate that this machine is approximately 12734 times |
| 04:10.38 | Twingy | faster than the reference machine being used for comparison, a VAX 11/780 |
| 04:10.38 | Twingy | running 4.3 BSD named VGR. |
| 04:10.47 | Twingy | I just got that |
| 04:23.12 | brlcad | yes? |
| 04:23.33 | Twingy | you got 11,600 |
| 04:23.34 | brlcad | on the machine "VGR", the results for each of those tests == 1 |
| 04:23.45 | Twingy | I got 12,700 |
| 04:23.56 | brlcad | so 12700 VGRS is X times faster |
| 04:24.01 | Twingy | yes |
| 04:24.05 | Twingy | but icc is 15,000 still |
| 04:24.09 | Twingy | let me see if I can go higher |
| 04:24.49 | brlcad | right, without going deep into options for either, icc was considerably out performing |
| 04:25.16 | brlcad | e.g. didn't use the -march flag, that would have helped some |
| 04:25.28 | brlcad | or -ffast-math |
| 04:25.40 | brlcad | but then icc also hasd similar options |
| 04:26.00 | brlcad | what really steals it is that multi-pass |
| 05:21.23 | Twingy | 12,836 |
| 05:28.23 | Twingy | last test for tonight :) |
| 05:28.32 | Twingy | maybe I can sqeak out 13,000 |
| 05:32.33 | brlcad | sounds about right |
| 05:32.52 | Twingy | I should push adrt through it again |
| 05:32.55 | brlcad | i'd expect it possible to squeak 1-3k out of both with more fine tuning |
| 05:33.00 | Twingy | everytime I have used it in the past gcc was faster |
| 05:33.06 | brlcad | you should try adrt with the multi-pass |
| 05:33.11 | Twingy | I even got the pathscale guys to formally admit gcc was faster |
| 05:39.08 | brlcad | when I first tested on the pre-altix, the gap was about 50%-60% with the same options iirc |
| 05:39.42 | brlcad | so nice to see that the gap is decreasing |
| 05:41.11 | Maloeran | Ahah Justin, gcc defeated pathscale then? :) Neat |
| 05:41.26 | Twingy | there's a bug in their database as a result of my ray-tracer |
| 05:41.36 | Twingy | if I dig up old emails I have the title |
| 05:41.38 | Twingy | I think |
| 05:41.47 | Twingy | if something is faster, they report as bug |
| 05:41.50 | Maloeran | GCC is fairly horrible for Opteron optimisation, in comparison to what you can get from assembly |
| 05:42.03 | Maloeran | Eh, nice |
| 05:42.06 | Twingy | the funny thing is I was testing on opterons |
| 05:42.13 | Twingy | 2ghz quad opteron |
| 05:42.21 | Maloeran | Sure, that's what Pathscale is designed for |
| 05:42.29 | Twingy | at siggraph 2004 |
| 05:44.34 | Maloeran | I maintain that assembly is seriously under-estimated :), I seem to be the only one crazy enough to code paths optimized for archs or chips |
| 05:49.00 | Twingy | do you have a script you run to apply the mods post gcc compile? |
| 05:50.02 | Maloeran | No, it's all hand written |
| 05:50.09 | Twingy | so everytime you compile |
| 05:50.14 | Twingy | you have to open up file with editor |
| 05:50.16 | Twingy | and type it in? |
| 05:50.20 | Twingy | seems kind of laborious |
| 05:50.22 | Maloeran | Though, there are some easy changes to be made to GCC's output to increase performance on amd64 |
| 05:50.55 | Maloeran | Somewhat, it doesn't take too long when you have the C version next to it as reference |
| 05:51.17 | Twingy | seems like a little sed scripts could be useful |
| 05:51.24 | Twingy | to just go patchit.sh |
| 05:51.26 | Maloeran | It's a hand written .S file, I don't change anything |
| 05:51.26 | Twingy | everytime you compile |
| 05:51.35 | Maloeran | gcc foo.S -o foo.o |
| 05:51.39 | Twingy | so all assmembly lives in own file |
| 05:51.47 | Maloeran | A couple files, but yes |
| 05:51.53 | Twingy | I thought you were taking gcc's output |
| 05:51.56 | Twingy | everytime you compile |
| 05:52.02 | Twingy | and putting it in from scratch |
| 05:52.13 | Maloeran | Eh no, working from gcc's output wouldn't lead to the best results |
| 05:52.22 | Twingy | gotcha |
| 06:25.37 | *** join/#brlcad ibot_ (i=ibot@rikers.org) | |
| 06:25.37 | *** topic/#brlcad is http://brlcad.org/ || BRL-CAD is now Free Software! || BRL-CAD Windows port has been merged to HEAD, not yet stable yet || Archer is now on HEAD as well, kick the tires, report any bugs || there WILL be a 7.6.8 released ASAP for January after all | |
| 06:59.37 | *** join/#brlcad learner (n=brlcad@pdpc/supporter/silver/brlcad) | |
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| 09:57.13 | *** topic/#brlcad is http://brlcad.org/ || BRL-CAD is now Free Software! || BRL-CAD Windows port has been merged to HEAD, not yet stable yet || Archer is now on HEAD as well, kick the tires, report any bugs || there WILL be a 7.6.8 released ASAP for January after all | |
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| 22:55.01 | Twingy | yep, that's a dirty job |
| 22:56.42 | Twingy | living room is oficially classified as DMZ now |
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| 02:41.02 | Twingy | http://js.cx/~justin/images/livingroom/ |
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| 07:02.51 | brlcad | CIA is ill this evening |
| 07:03.03 | brlcad | navi is down |
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| 10:20.49 | archivist | I expected to see the milling machine in the living room |
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| 16:45.34 | pra5ad-werk | brlcad: at home? |
| 16:45.42 | brlcad | yes |
| 16:45.47 | pra5ad-werk | dammit |
| 16:45.55 | pra5ad-werk | where's jason |
| 16:46.23 | brlcad | in mexico all weekend |
| 16:46.37 | brlcad | hopefully still hung over |
| 16:46.44 | pra5ad-werk | oh |
| 16:46.50 | pra5ad-werk | u in tomorrow? |
| 16:48.33 | brlcad | possibly |
| 16:48.52 | brlcad | i'm always in somewhere |
| 16:49.46 | pra5ad-werk | ew |
| 16:49.52 | pra5ad-werk | too much info |
| 16:49.54 | pra5ad-werk | =) |
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| 17:56.55 | ``Erik | heh |
| 17:57.33 | ``Erik | you shoulda came in today, sean, I was looking for someone to pawn racking a machine off on |
| 18:00.31 | tegtmeye | sean, you know gcc can do profiling opts like the intel compiler can right? |
| 18:13.27 | learner | yeah, would love to see the results |
| 18:16.08 | learner | i did mention that was without going into any great length on either compiler, add -O3 to each and what are the results, add no options, what are the results, etc |
| 18:17.12 | learner | the multi-pass gcc would be nice to see, though I would be still be incredibly surprised if it closes the gap fully |
| 18:19.53 | brlcad | ``Erik: aww, darn.. and I missed that? shucks |
| 19:06.37 | Maloeran | Just -O3 is a very poor benchmark with GCC, especially on AMD chips... |
| 19:33.32 | learner | give a list of ia-64 flags that should be optimal, and I'll give it a whirl |
| 19:33.57 | learner | fast-math, mtune, expensive-opts, not much different |
| 19:34.51 | learner | i.e. this is an itanium2, an altix |
| 19:39.27 | learner | i've gone through more than a dozen compiles now, and in each case the intel compiler is out-performing with the exception of specifying no optimization options gcc takes it |
| 19:40.38 | learner | which really just isn't so surprising. intel compiler only supports a couple platforms, you'd hope that they'd do a decent job |
| 19:43.42 | Maloeran | Ah yes, I didn't know the arch you were benchmarking, GCC's optimisation for IA-64 isn't anywhere near Intel's |
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| 20:16.21 | ``Erik | <PROTECTED> |
| 20:16.23 | ``Erik | gheh |
| 20:18.01 | tegtmeye | we where talking today, you know that -fast-math turns off ieee math right? |
| 20:32.13 | brlcad | yep |
| 20:32.48 | brlcad | brl-cad doesn't rely on ieee floating point |
| 20:36.04 | brlcad | the benchmark test the actual results of the computations to ensure that they are within an accepted level of deviation (zero off-by-many pixel errors) |
| 20:36.20 | brlcad | if they don't match up, the benchmark will fail |
| 21:03.49 | ``Erik | make |
| 21:03.50 | ``Erik | ghah |
| 21:08.26 | brlcad | make: *** No targets specified and no makefile found. Stop. |
| 21:10.37 | ``Erik | gmake -j99999999 |
| 21:11.28 | brlcad | gmake: command not found |
| 00:08.49 | ``Erik | NARF! |
| 00:13.00 | tegtmeye | eh! which one of our machines has the most memory? |
| 00:13.21 | tegtmeye | rack has 8 and I jsut killed it... |
| 00:18.38 | ``Erik | um, the altix has like 24g |
| 00:19.20 | tegtmeye | I don't think I have an account on wopr |
| 00:19.31 | tegtmeye | can you give me one from home? |
| 00:19.35 | ``Erik | no |
| 00:19.37 | brlcad | not really public conversation material |
| 00:19.39 | ``Erik | it's not mine |
| 00:19.46 | ``Erik | and we dont' say actual machine names in public |
| 00:19.53 | tegtmeye | gotcha |
| 00:20.35 | ``Erik | the second most I can think of off the top of my head is the amd64 minicluster with 8g/node |
| 00:21.08 | tegtmeye | yea, jsut killed one with 8 |
| 00:21.12 | tegtmeye | stupid perl |
| 00:21.17 | brlcad | heh |
| 00:21.18 | ``Erik | didja cook up much swap on it? |
| 00:21.19 | brlcad | bad regex |
| 00:21.21 | ``Erik | heh, perl sucks :D |
| 00:21.56 | brlcad | if it wasn't a regex, I don't want to know how you ran through that much memory |
| 00:22.12 | tegtmeye | graph stuff |
| 00:22.17 | ``Erik | perl is as perl does? :) |
| 00:22.26 | brlcad | if it was, you should be able to cut that down with different expressions |
| 00:22.46 | brlcad | ahm.. storing sparse matrices in hash tables? :) |
| 00:22.48 | tegtmeye | no regex at all |
| 00:23.08 | tegtmeye | no |
| 00:23.14 | tegtmeye | adjacency lists |
| 00:23.17 | tegtmeye | sp |
| 00:24.16 | brlcad | perl isn't "horrible" on memory usage generally speaking.. not as bad as some other languages at least; sure you're not doing something that's causing some explosive allocation? |
| 00:24.18 | tegtmeye | Mar 27 19:06:10 ?? kernel: Node 0 Normal: 0*4kB 0*8kB 1*16kB 0*32kB 1*64kB 1*128kB 1*256kB 1*51 |
| 00:24.21 | tegtmeye | 2kB 1*1024kB 0*2048kB 0*4096kB = 2000kB |
| 00:24.24 | tegtmeye | Mar 27 19:06:10 ?? kernel: Node 0 HighMem: empty |
| 00:24.26 | tegtmeye | Mar 27 19:06:10 ?? kernel: Swap cache: add 516944, delete 516944, find 255/1278, race 0+0 |
| 00:24.30 | tegtmeye | Mar 27 19:06:10 ?? kernel: Free swap: 0kB |
| 00:24.32 | tegtmeye | Mar 27 19:06:10 ?? kernel: 2097150 pages of RAM |
| 00:24.35 | tegtmeye | Mar 27 19:06:10 ?? kernel: 249625 reserved pages |
| 00:24.37 | tegtmeye | Mar 27 19:06:10 ?? kernel: 6527 pages shared |
| 00:24.40 | tegtmeye | Mar 27 19:06:10 ?? kernel: 0 pages swap cached |
| 00:24.42 | tegtmeye | Mar 27 19:06:10 ?? kernel: Out of Memory: Killed process 31308 (bash). |
| 00:24.55 | tegtmeye | yea, doing static analysis on doxygen... |
| 00:25.00 | tegtmeye | it has like 20k functions |
| 00:25.21 | ``Erik | erm, y'know, we're only allowed to use those computers for official work related business o.O |
| 00:25.26 | ``Erik | :) |
| 00:25.50 | brlcad | on doxygen?? |
| 00:26.21 | brlcad | it's a document tool, i could care less how poorly written it is :) |
| 00:26.28 | brlcad | but then that's just me |
| 00:26.47 | ``Erik | doesn't it use crap from like kde or qt? |
| 00:27.00 | brlcad | not last I payed attention |
| 00:27.08 | brlcad | at least not required |
| 00:48.52 | ``Erik | ahhh O.o |
| 00:50.00 | pra5ad | sonofa.. oblivion is xp only too |
| 00:50.04 | pra5ad | this is ridiculous |
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| 03:24.35 | brlcad | grr |
| 03:25.05 | *** join/#brlcad pra5ad (n=pra5ad@pool-141-157-106-216.balt.east.verizon.net) | |
| 03:25.22 | *** mode/#brlcad [+b pra5ad!pra5ad@pool-141-157-106-216.balt.east.verizon.net] by brlcad | |
| 03:25.28 | *** join/#brlcad pra5ad (n=pra5ad@pool-141-157-106-216.balt.east.verizon.net) | |
| 03:25.34 | brlcad | hrmph |
| 03:25.40 | *** mode/#brlcad [-b pra5ad!pra5ad@pool-141-157-106-216.balt.east.verizon.net] by brlcad | |
| 03:25.53 | *** join/#brlcad pra5ad (n=pra5ad@pool-141-157-106-216.balt.east.verizon.net) | |
| 03:26.22 | *** mode/#brlcad [+b pra5ad*!*@*] by brlcad | |
| 03:26.55 | brlcad | sheesh |
| 03:29.49 | *** mode/#brlcad [-b pra5ad*!*@*] by brlcad | |
| 03:30.08 | *** join/#brlcad pra5ad (n=pra5ad@pool-141-157-106-216.balt.east.verizon.net) | |
| 03:33.36 | pra5ad | ok so im trying to use tinyxml for the c++ gl test |
| 03:33.49 | pra5ad | its makefile only produces obj files |
| 03:34.00 | pra5ad | how do i incorporate that into my gnu build system? |
| 03:34.05 | pra5ad | or whats the best way |
| 03:36.00 | brlcad | who would only make .o files |
| 03:36.36 | brlcad | you can half-ass it and just add them to the LIBS or LDFLAGS |
| 03:36.45 | pra5ad | *** i have a 15% gdc discount at www.akpeters.com (till 4/30/06) ... let me know if u are planning to get some books from that site |
| 03:36.47 | brlcad | or convert the build to a gbs one |
| 03:37.33 | pra5ad | hm |
| 03:38.59 | brlcad | actually yeah, http://www.akpeters.com/product.asp?ProdCode=2175 |
| 03:43.01 | pra5ad | since i'm not selling this gl test prog, i can technically rip out the src (3 cpp files) and put em under my build, right? |
| 03:43.10 | brlcad | mm.. http://www.akpeters.com/product.asp?ProdCode=1772 |
| 03:43.13 | pra5ad | iirc its under gpl |
| 03:43.56 | pra5ad | dude, email me the list of books |
| 03:44.11 | pra5ad | im sorta curious about em too |
| 03:49.23 | brlcad | only other one maybe, http://www.akpeters.com/product.asp?ProdCode=0903 |
| 03:52.29 | brlcad | sent |
| 04:04.48 | Twingy | unf |
| 04:04.54 | Twingy | soooo many boards |
| 04:21.45 | Maloeran | Eh, coerced ``Erik into giving a hand yet? |
| 04:28.36 | Twingy | he's been sick for like 10 days? |
| 04:28.44 | Twingy | and refuses to get antibiotics |
| 04:32.36 | Maloeran | Ouch, so he's still sick... |
| 04:33.01 | Twingy | he should be using sick days :) |
| 04:33.14 | Twingy | with all the sick people I've been around at work |
| 04:33.20 | Twingy | you'd think I'd be on my death bed |
| 04:33.53 | pra5ad | gym is my antibiotic |
| 04:34.21 | Maloeran | Sure, regular exercise and a good cardiovascular system greatly reinforces the immunity system |
| 04:34.48 | Maloeran | I haven't been sick for... many years either |
| 04:35.59 | pra5ad | so when do i get to see ur raytracer? |
| 04:36.23 | Maloeran | Hrm, what about at Siggraph? :) |
| 04:36.35 | Maloeran | I should have dynamic geometry support nicely completed by then |
| 04:36.42 | pra5ad | oh yea? nice |
| 04:37.04 | pra5ad | what are u using as the spatial structure? kinetic octree? |
| 04:37.13 | Maloeran | Not a known technique |
| 04:37.18 | pra5ad | ohh |
| 04:37.20 | pra5ad | heh =) |
| 04:37.21 | Maloeran | The ray-triangle intersection test is a new technique too |
| 04:38.38 | Maloeran | pra5ad, I vaguely understood you were interested by low-level hardware, have you played with FPGAs? |
| 04:39.10 | pra5ad | sure have |
| 04:39.14 | brlcad | you're presenting a paper at siggraph? |
| 04:39.16 | pra5ad | xilinx mostly |
| 04:39.33 | pra5ad | done a little abel and verliog |
| 04:40.31 | brlcad | or going to demo it at the brl-cad bof? :) |
| 04:40.46 | Twingy | no no |
| 04:40.52 | Twingy | the Justin is your God bof |
| 04:40.58 | Twingy | :} |
| 04:41.03 | brlcad | we need better compute power this year |
| 04:41.10 | Twingy | I got that covered |
| 04:41.17 | brlcad | heh |
| 04:41.28 | Twingy | mal, I'll have a dual cpu dual core 2ghz opteron there for yah |
| 04:41.30 | brlcad | should still.. press for new equipment by then |
| 04:42.05 | brlcad | hopefully it'll arive in time |
| 04:42.13 | Twingy | the craptops? |
| 04:42.14 | brlcad | i needs it, i vants it |
| 04:42.35 | pra5ad | help me push for a dual cell blade |
| 04:42.38 | pra5ad | only $50k |
| 04:42.39 | pra5ad | =) |
| 04:43.32 | Twingy | heh, in that case let me just cash out my trust fund |
| 04:58.29 | pra5ad | http://www.flickr.com/photos/ps3/117907118/ |
| 04:58.46 | pra5ad | warhawk on ps3; clouds rendered using raycasting |
| 04:58.50 | pra5ad | on a single spu |
| 05:07.19 | Maloeran | Sorry about that, phone call from friend lawyer. So pra5ad, ever pondered about putting together ray-tracing hardware? :} |
| 05:08.38 | pra5ad | my interest has peaked recently |
| 05:09.00 | pra5ad | would be a fun project :) |
| 05:09.26 | Maloeran | For my part, I am really interested. I'm the kind of guy who write assembly for any common archs and stomp compilers, but I never went below that |
| 05:10.09 | Maloeran | As it was for rasterization many years ago, specialized hardware will be the key for ray-tracing |
| 05:10.21 | pra5ad | i agree |
| 05:11.09 | pra5ad | wonder if xilinx is selling a pci-x fpga prototyping board |
| 05:12.19 | Maloeran | This sure would be appropriate, such hardware would require pci-x's bandwidth |
| 05:13.09 | Maloeran | What emulation software do you use or would recommend? |
| 05:13.10 | pra5ad | personally id like to try out two things: the pci-x path or build it against cell |
| 05:13.35 | pra5ad | heh i cheated |
| 05:13.40 | pra5ad | xilinx's own tools |
| 05:13.55 | pra5ad | i dont believe they have any for nix/osx |
| 05:14.10 | pra5ad | then again this was 3 yrs ago |
| 05:14.21 | Maloeran | Mmhm, I see |
| 05:14.46 | pra5ad | the one we used in 2k4 was pretty powerful imo |
| 05:14.54 | pra5ad | full system simulation |
| 05:15.04 | pra5ad | and our schematic was pretty complex |
| 05:15.15 | pra5ad | twas a DLA |
| 05:15.39 | pra5ad | iirc it allowed us to create components and tie em together; building blocks |
| 05:15.45 | pra5ad | and simulate it that way |
| 05:16.12 | pra5ad | and i do believe it cost around the order of $200 |
| 05:16.35 | pra5ad | (project budget was somewhere around that) |
| 05:16.39 | Maloeran | Interesting. What software would you recommend for an initiation into the path that would lead to efficient ray-tracing hardware many years from now? |
| 05:17.54 | Maloeran | Most preferabily nix software... :) |
| 05:17.59 | Maloeran | preferably, even |
| 05:18.07 | pra5ad | i really shouldnt have any say in this, but id stick with the hardware vendor tools |
| 05:18.12 | pra5ad | ah.. that i dont know |
| 05:18.23 | pra5ad | never really did look into nix stuff |
| 05:18.52 | pra5ad | i believe altera's basic dev kits run about $150-200 |
| 05:19.03 | pra5ad | includes vhdl compilers |
| 05:19.05 | pra5ad | iirc |
| 05:20.16 | Maloeran | I see, thanks for the tip |
| 05:22.29 | pra5ad | ah yea, we used the spartan 3E's |
| 05:24.14 | pra5ad | ohh interesting |
| 05:24.22 | pra5ad | logic building tools |
| 05:24.23 | pra5ad | System Requirements |
| 05:24.23 | pra5ad | <PROTECTED> |
| 05:24.23 | pra5ad | <PROTECTED> |
| 05:24.23 | pra5ad | <PROTECTED> |
| 05:24.29 | pra5ad | might wanna try that |
| 05:25.05 | Maloeran | Nice, that seems more convenient |
| 05:25.13 | pra5ad | http://www.xilinx.com/ise/logic_design_prod/foundation.htm |
| 05:25.20 | pra5ad | evaluation cd |
| 05:25.24 | pra5ad | heh full version is 2.5k |
| 05:26.41 | Maloeran | Ouch. I really want to explore this avenue soon, after I'm done with the software side |
| 05:28.27 | pra5ad | http://www.xilinx.com/xlnx/xebiz/designResources/ip_product_details.jsp?key=HW-V4-ML455&sGlobalNavPick=PRODUCTS&sSecondaryNavPick=BOARDS |
| 05:28.32 | pra5ad | pci-x dev kit |
| 05:28.38 | pra5ad | for virtex-4s |
| 05:28.46 | pra5ad | 1.2k |
| 05:30.55 | pra5ad | heh now i want to get a dev kit |
| 05:30.58 | Maloeran | Eh, I think I can be satisfied with software emulation for the moment, to gain some experience with this strange new world |
| 05:31.44 | pra5ad | it's really not that hard |
| 05:31.52 | pra5ad | id say it's easier than asm |
| 05:31.54 | pra5ad | much easier |
| 05:33.29 | pra5ad | so i get to learn about this new raytracing algorithm in august eh? |
| 05:34.17 | Maloeran | I'm afraid it's unlikely that you will learn more than what level of performance it reaches... :) |
| 05:36.55 | pra5ad | collaboration? =) |
| 05:38.52 | Maloeran | That might be an option, I'm really unsure of how things will unfold at the moment |
| 05:39.15 | pra5ad | ah, ok |
| 06:01.33 | Twingy | damn I'm getting close to producing working g-code |
| 06:16.53 | Twingy | bed time |
| 06:46.01 | *** join/#brlcad Twingy (n=justin@c-68-33-163-43.hsd1.md.comcast.net) | |
| 15:41.12 | CIA-5 | BRL-CAD: 03lbutler * 10brlcad/regress/master_prep.sh: |
| 15:41.12 | CIA-5 | BRL-CAD: Added --enable-everything to the configure line |
| 15:41.12 | CIA-5 | BRL-CAD: Printing old and new version numbers for confirmation |
| 15:46.56 | docelic | hi folks.. any of sourceforge project owners here ? |
| 15:47.20 | docelic | s/owners/brlcad admins/ |
| 15:47.39 | docelic | haha good :) |
| 15:48.07 | ``Erik | o.O |
| 15:49.42 | docelic | I am working on a large project too, and we are thinking of opening a sourceforge project.. but if I remember, brlcad was specially announced on sf.net frontpage, so maybe such a deal could be made with us as well |
| 15:50.04 | docelic | I'd like to find out the people I could talk to about such possibility |
| 15:53.43 | CIA-5 | BRL-CAD: 03lbutler * 10brlcad/regress/Makefile.am: Now does all the regression tests even if one fails |
| 15:56.17 | ``Erik | I don't think anything special was done for that... we had a cvs repo that we wanted imported |
| 15:57.14 | ``Erik | so brlcad over there *point* talked to them and gave them a tarball of goop, as well as sending a blurb to slashdot... I d'no if he did anything special for sf news, or if they just did it themselves |
| 19:01.51 | brlcad | docelic: yes |
| 19:02.25 | docelic | hi brlcad |
| 19:02.55 | brlcad | sf.net picks up news for their main page at their discretion based on when you post news to your project :) |
| 19:03.55 | docelic | so you did not make any special arrangements to have it appear there? I might be wrong, but I remember them having the 1:1 picture of your logo on the main site for a week |
| 19:04.17 | brlcad | really? |
| 19:04.22 | brlcad | i never knew that |
| 19:05.10 | brlcad | so yeah.. no special arrangements other than being a high-profile popular newsworthy project ;) |
| 19:06.17 | docelic | interesting.. |
| 19:08.35 | brlcad | likewise |
| 19:08.54 | brlcad | i could just be forgetting, but I didn't know about the sf.net news |
| 19:27.20 | brlcad | time to get out the hose |
| 20:02.48 | CIA-5 | BRL-CAD: 03bob1961 * 10brlcad/src/tclscripts/archer/Archer.tcl: Set the default button for the preferences dialog. |
| 20:12.21 | CIA-5 | BRL-CAD: 03lbutler * 10brlcad/regress/master_prep.sh: |
| 20:12.21 | CIA-5 | BRL-CAD: Fixed bug where master_prep.sh was being run multiple times and |
| 20:12.21 | CIA-5 | BRL-CAD: alternating between release numbers. Now gets consistent release |
| 20:12.22 | CIA-5 | BRL-CAD: number from README file |
| 03:23.53 | pra5ad | quiet.. |
| 03:24.24 | *** join/#brlcad pra5ad (n=pra5ad@pool-141-157-106-216.balt.east.verizon.net) | |
| 03:49.46 | Twingy | http://js.cx/~justin/images/livingroom/floor_07.jpg |
| 03:52.03 | pra5ad | u are not making a flipbook of the construction? |
| 03:52.14 | Twingy | I'm taking a video |
| 03:52.25 | Twingy | it's quite amusing |
| 03:52.49 | pra5ad | cue benny hill music |
| 03:53.24 | Twingy | I wish siggraph were here already |
| 03:54.08 | pra5ad | me too |
| 03:54.21 | pra5ad | i need to chain conferences together |
| 03:55.31 | pra5ad | by the time u are done, it'll be 2 yrs since buying and time to sell |
| 03:56.07 | Twingy | I'll have this place for 5 years |
| 03:56.49 | Twingy | I will list for sale on my 30th birthday |
| 03:56.58 | Twingy | by then truck will be paid off |
| 03:57.47 | Twingy | then I can have my dilbert home built ^_^ |
| 03:58.44 | Twingy | land will be $50k - $100k, construction could be $350k - $500k |
| 04:00.29 | pra5ad | where abouts? |
| 04:00.46 | Twingy | I would probably have it built in PA or cecil county area |
| 04:01.34 | Twingy | I have few memories from 1982 |
| 04:01.48 | Twingy | we moved to NJ in fall '82 |
| 04:03.39 | Twingy | I could easily spend 50 years in that dilbert house |
| 04:03.50 | Twingy | it's gorgeous |
| 07:01.09 | *** join/#brlcad ChanServ (ChanServ@services.) | |
| 07:01.09 | *** mode/#brlcad [+o ChanServ] by irc.freenode.net | |
| 17:43.23 | ``Erik | damnit, wrong part of the world to see the eclipse today :( |
| 17:43.28 | ``Erik | http://eclipse.astronomie.info/sofi/activemaps.html is neat |
| 17:53.50 | archivist | slight dimming here but obscured by clouds anyway |
| 18:01.20 | *** join/#brlcad grumbel (n=grumbel@i5387E3F1.versanet.de) | |
| 20:02.55 | CIA-5 | BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/include/bu.h: add support for the intel compiler on altix, i.e. for compiling with icc on ia64.. bu_byteoffset so needs to be dynamically detected by configure or even at run-time. |
| 20:38.21 | CIA-5 | BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/sh/tracker.sh: provide an example use |
| 22:27.25 | CIA-5 | BRL-CAD: 03lbutler * 10brlcad/src/rt/viewweight.c: |
| 22:27.25 | CIA-5 | BRL-CAD: Since we have moved to calling bu_malloc instead of malloc, we have to be |
| 22:27.25 | CIA-5 | BRL-CAD: careful not to acquire BU_SEM_SYSCALL prior to calling bu_malloc (since it |
| 22:27.25 | CIA-5 | BRL-CAD: tries to acquire that semaphore, and the program would hang forever). |
| 22:27.25 | CIA-5 | BRL-CAD: Of course, it would be better not to overload BU_SEM_SYSCALL in this |
| 22:27.27 | CIA-5 | BRL-CAD: instance, but to allocate an application semaphore. That is a more sweeping |
| 22:27.29 | CIA-5 | BRL-CAD: change for later. |
| 23:57.42 | *** join/#brlcad cad412 (n=1813305d@bz.bzflag.bz) | |
| 00:01.37 | CIA-5 | BRL-CAD: 03lbutler * 10brlcad/src/rt/main.c: |
| 00:01.37 | CIA-5 | BRL-CAD: When complaining about not getting an MGED database, we now accurately report |
| 00:01.37 | CIA-5 | BRL-CAD: the name of the program (from argv[0]) being run, rather than pretending that |
| 00:01.37 | CIA-5 | BRL-CAD: all rtuif programs are called "rt". |
| 00:04.14 | *** join/#brlcad cad665 (n=1813305d@bz.bzflag.bz) | |
| 00:04.35 | CIA-5 | BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/libfb/ (fb_obj.c fbserv_obj.c if_4d.c tcl.c): |
| 00:04.35 | CIA-5 | BRL-CAD: revert the libbu memory management changes to libpkg just to be safe. if |
| 00:04.35 | CIA-5 | BRL-CAD: someone happens to call bu_semaphore_acquire on a BU_SEM_SYSCALL semaphore, the |
| 00:04.35 | CIA-5 | BRL-CAD: call will block since libbu utilizes that semaphore internally (and it's |
| 00:04.36 | CIA-5 | BRL-CAD: expected that callers know this..). |
| 00:07.58 | cad665 | Hello, I am new to BRL-CAD. Just got current from CVS and noticed the visual studio projects |
| 00:08.37 | cad665 | I have made a few tweeks to get it most of the executables, but not all working. What is the status of this? |
| 00:09.53 | cad665 | I was looking to use mged, but it is looking for 'gui' |
| 00:23.41 | *** join/#brlcad cad665 (n=1813305d@bz.bzflag.bz) | |
| 00:28.18 | brlcad | cad665: there are some manual installation steps |
| 00:28.31 | brlcad | i'm not sure if they've been well documented yet |
| 00:28.47 | brlcad | but basically you have to install the tclscripts and the binaries that you build before mged will work |
| 00:29.28 | brlcad | mged uses a vast quantity of external plugin-style resources that it tries to find, and without doing this, you get the gui error or a few others |
| 00:38.53 | cad665 | thanks |
| 00:39.17 | cad665 | I noticed that I needed to move iwidgets.tcl. I will look around the makefiles |
| 00:39.39 | brlcad | most of the src/tclscripts directory as well |
| 00:39.54 | brlcad | that's the big one, that's where 'gui' lives for example |
| 00:40.13 | brlcad | the status is that it's about ready to ship out now |
| 00:40.27 | brlcad | but the automatic-build under windows certainly needs more work |
| 00:40.46 | brlcad | there has just not been too many windows developers interested in getting involved to date yet |
| 00:44.27 | cad665 | I have done some porting from *NIX to Win32, but it can be quite an undertaking to port an application this size |
| 00:44.52 | brlcad | the porting is pretty much done |
| 00:44.58 | brlcad | it's mostly polish that's remaining |
| 00:45.08 | brlcad | so that you click, click and have an install, etc |
| 00:45.14 | cad665 | I may be able to help |
| 00:45.33 | brlcad | the nix side is pretty turnkey at this point |
| 00:46.01 | cad665 | I have been working on the FEA application CalculiX, doing that port and built an installer and packaged the HTML help into CHM, etc... |
| 00:46.05 | brlcad | though of few of the packaging systems are still coming on-line, like debian |
| 00:49.25 | brlcad | at this point, there are three approaches to getting a windows build -- there are two studio projects (one vc6, another vc7) or building through mingw/cygwin |
| 00:49.46 | brlcad | the vc6 builds all of the libraries and does an even better automated job than the vc7 project |
| 00:50.08 | brlcad | the vc7 project, though, builds about a 1/4th of the most useful binaries as well |
| 00:52.46 | *** join/#brlcad cad665 (n=1813305d@bz.bzflag.bz) | |
| 00:53.32 | Twingy | anyone interesting in laying hardwood? :) |
| 00:53.36 | Twingy | *ed |
| 00:54.02 | brlcad | you probably wouldn't appreciate my technique |
| 00:54.07 | Twingy | heh |
| 00:54.13 | brlcad | involves a nail gun and some glue |
| 00:54.22 | Twingy | oh |
| 00:54.24 | Maloeran | Ahah |
| 00:54.26 | Twingy | I've been using scotch tape, hrm |
| 00:54.45 | brlcad | doesn't involve wood |
| 00:54.56 | Twingy | ah, so you found a loop hole |
| 00:55.18 | Twingy | anti time space wood nailer doodad |
| 00:55.38 | Maloeran | Sure I'm interested to help, you pay the transportation, right? :) |
| 00:55.56 | Twingy | I'll pay you in an mp3 player built by the elbonians |
| 00:56.04 | brlcad | heh |
| 00:56.16 | brlcad | he'll give you his ipod.. :) |
| 00:56.18 | Twingy | ...it's a good deal |
| 00:56.45 | brlcad | that poor poor defenseless ipod.. |
| 00:57.56 | Twingy | it's not engineered to my standards |
| 00:58.34 | Twingy | I should be able to drive my car over it without so much as a scratch |
| 00:58.51 | Twingy | military grade man, military grade |
| 01:01.05 | Maloeran | 642km from Montreal to Baltimore, 8-12 days of bicycle, selling an ipod for food on the way won't be enough |
| 01:01.53 | Twingy | I doubt somone would give you food for it :) |
| 01:02.36 | Maloeran | :) Will you be completing the basement next, or you already passed that way? |
| 01:02.56 | Twingy | I will probably take a break after the hardwood floor |
| 01:03.02 | Twingy | rest for a month |
| 01:03.13 | Maloeran | Right, sounds reasonable |
| 01:03.16 | brlcad | that would be a sweet bicycle ride |
| 01:03.32 | Twingy | 6 weeks on the ceramic floor, 4 weeks on finishing the office, and 2 weeks on the hardwood floor drains you |
| 01:04.29 | Twingy | another 4.5 years and I can sell this place and get my dilbert house constructed |
| 01:06.32 | Maloeran | That's ambitious, brlcad :), I rarely find people willing to join to travel a fraction of that on bicycle... or were you being sarcastic? |
| 01:08.43 | brlcad | no, being serious |
| 01:09.11 | Maloeran | Very nice, I wouldn't mind joining |
| 01:09.20 | brlcad | it would take about two-three weeks I imagine |
| 01:09.39 | brlcad | i believe lance does it every year in two with a group |
| 01:10.29 | Maloeran | It depends if you actually want to stop by some places for a day or two |
| 01:10.43 | brlcad | true |
| 01:10.53 | brlcad | and if there are any breakdowns or injuries |
| 01:11.43 | brlcad | would be easy to rip a muscle without good distance training |
| 01:12.26 | brlcad | at least with a decent pace, i like to keep at least a 20mph pace if not better on flat |
| 01:12.47 | Maloeran | I do 35km daily to go to work at the moment, I wouldn't mind personally |
| 01:12.56 | Maloeran | Right. |
| 01:13.02 | brlcad | ~convert 20 miles to kilometers |
| 01:13.16 | brlcad | sounds about right, do that within an hour |
| 01:13.53 | brlcad | is that 70 a day, or 35 total? |
| 01:14.02 | Maloeran | It's a bit slower due to traffic, but yes. 35km total |
| 01:14.06 | brlcad | 70 is a pretty long commute |
| 01:14.07 | brlcad | ahh, k |
| 01:16.06 | brlcad | i used to have a 50 km route to work and back a couple years ago when I was starting |
| 01:16.09 | Twingy | I think erik makes that many trips to the fridge in a week |
| 01:16.13 | brlcad | that was hard to do more than 2 days back to back |
| 01:16.40 | brlcad | course mostly because I had a horrible seat at the time.. geared for racing not distance |
| 01:16.42 | Maloeran | So 100km total daily? |
| 01:16.55 | brlcad | no 50 total |
| 01:16.59 | brlcad | 25 each way |
| 01:17.26 | Twingy | mal, how far are you from boston? |
| 01:18.07 | Maloeran | 890km |
| 01:18.16 | brlcad | since then i've rode 160km across 2 days easily enough |
| 01:18.17 | brlcad | heh |
| 01:18.21 | Maloeran | 50km daily is fine, but you may arrive rather tired at work |
| 01:18.22 | brlcad | that would be one hard trip |
| 01:18.27 | Twingy | you're closer to baltimore than boston? |
| 01:18.47 | Maloeran | Or so some air traverl website says, yes |
| 01:18.53 | Maloeran | Ack, wrong city |
| 01:18.53 | Twingy | erm |
| 01:19.00 | Maloeran | 356km to Boston |
| 01:19.05 | Maloeran | I thought it didn't make sense too |
| 01:19.06 | Twingy | can you bike that? |
| 01:19.12 | brlcad | yeah, it was fine.. actually wasn't too tired, just my joints couldn't take more than two days before I had to let them recover |
| 01:19.21 | Maloeran | Well sure, give me ~5 days |
| 01:19.34 | brlcad | heh, that's about 200 miles |
| 01:19.35 | Twingy | if you can do it, we could hook you up with room :) |
| 01:19.37 | brlcad | you could do that in two days |
| 01:19.46 | brlcad | depending on the terrain.. :) |
| 01:20.20 | Maloeran | Depending if I don't get completely lost, and so on :), 5 days is playing it safe |
| 01:20.28 | Twingy | 3 days :D |
| 01:20.40 | Twingy | don't you have a gps? :) |
| 01:21.07 | brlcad | Twingy: what's his name is interested too, he's looking into it I think |
| 01:21.09 | Maloeran | I could get that... :) |
| 01:21.15 | Twingy | david? |
| 01:21.20 | brlcad | yeah |
| 01:21.27 | Twingy | well, more the merry :) |
| 01:21.36 | brlcad | not necesarily to bunk, but at least in going |
| 01:21.46 | Twingy | ah |
| 01:21.51 | brlcad | dunno what his plans are |
| 01:21.57 | brlcad | too far out for him |
| 01:22.06 | brlcad | mm.. could bike to boston.. |
| 01:22.15 | brlcad | then i wouldn't get any coding done |
| 01:22.27 | brlcad | heh |
| 01:22.39 | brlcad | can just imagine having a suitcase strapped to my back |
| 01:22.48 | Twingy | and what if the airplane crashes? HUH?! :) |
| 01:22.56 | Twingy | nah |
| 01:23.00 | Twingy | buy your cloths at siggraph |
| 01:23.16 | Twingy | show up to the siggraph mechandise booth all sweaty |
| 01:23.18 | Maloeran | Arriving at Siggraph after a 3 days ride on bicycle with a tent and portable computers strapped on the back sure would be elegant |
| 01:23.19 | Twingy | buy a change of cloths |
| 01:23.33 | Twingy | we can provide computing power :) |
| 01:23.39 | Twingy | you could send encrypted files :) |
| 01:23.41 | brlcad | and then ride home with 50 lbs of proceedings on your back :) |
| 01:23.51 | Twingy | proceedings can be mailed |
| 01:23.59 | brlcad | where's the fun in that |
| 01:24.15 | Twingy | riding to siggraph on a bike isnt fun enough? |
| 01:24.24 | Twingy | you're almost as nuts as I am |
| 01:24.26 | Maloeran | I'm seriously considering it :) |
| 01:24.32 | Maloeran | I'll see when the time comes |
| 01:24.44 | Twingy | talk about die hard siggraph fan :) |
| 01:25.06 | Twingy | "Hey Gordon, just rode my bike here from boston" |
| 01:25.35 | Twingy | I'd prefer hiking over biking though |
| 01:25.39 | Twingy | I can hike 20 miles a day |
| 01:25.52 | Twingy | would take a good 2 weeks advance start |
| 01:25.54 | Maloeran | And you can ride 5 times that easily |
| 01:26.06 | brlcad | 375mi from aberdeen to boston |
| 01:26.06 | Twingy | I'm not a big fan of bike riding |
| 01:26.21 | Twingy | I prefer to not use mechanical devices |
| 01:26.31 | Maloeran | Hiking is slow, I tend to run whenever outside as walking is just too slow |
| 01:26.43 | Twingy | I cannot run more than 8 miles at a span |
| 01:26.53 | Maloeran | Good enough |
| 01:26.56 | Twingy | speaking of which |
| 01:27.00 | Twingy | soon as hardwood floor is done |
| 01:27.06 | Twingy | I'll start my 50 days of running again |
| 01:27.18 | Twingy | by the end of that I'll be able to run 8 miles again |
| 01:27.37 | brlcad | the appalachian trail would get you there |
| 01:27.39 | Twingy | hiking from edgewood to aberdeen would take me like 6 hours |
| 01:27.59 | brlcad | you might want to get started in june |
| 01:28.03 | Twingy | hehe |
| 01:28.14 | Twingy | if I had the leave available |
| 01:28.18 | Twingy | I would do it in a heart beat |
| 01:28.18 | Maloeran | Did you try riding a bicycle lately, Twingy? Really, it's much more pleasant |
| 01:28.30 | Twingy | I rode my bike all the time before I moved to maryland |
| 01:28.40 | Maloeran | Ah nice. |
| 01:28.40 | Twingy | little 15 mile rides |
| 01:28.49 | Twingy | I prefer running though |
| 02:34.19 | tegtmeye | arggg...papers suck. going home:( |
| 02:36.33 | ``Erik | heh |
| 02:36.36 | ``Erik | it's due friday? |
| 02:44.40 | CIA-5 | BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/m4/cache.m4: if the compiler or preprocessor flags we're using for the current configure are different from when we last cached values, invalidate the configure cache. |
| 03:13.32 | ``Erik | that's not smog, that's smug! |
| 04:03.23 | Twingy | http://js.cx/~justin/images/livingroom/floor_08.jpg |
| 05:25.39 | Twingy | damn, tsp is rockin |
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| 05:59.21 | pra5ad | go go i-fund |
| 05:59.46 | Twingy | the lack of g-code references on google is profund |
| 05:59.51 | Twingy | *profound |
| 06:02.33 | Twingy | niehgbors house is going for $342,900 |
| 06:03.35 | Twingy | my house type just sold for $325k |
| 06:03.46 | Twingy | that's $30k more than I paid |
| 06:11.15 | CIA-5 | BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/other/URToolkit/tools/ (rlecomp.c rleinterp.c): quell icc warnings |
| 06:15.41 | brlcad | i had/have a copy of the g-code specification around here somewhere |
| 06:22.43 | Twingy | with parameters? |
| 06:22.53 | Twingy | finding without parameters is easy |
| 06:23.07 | Twingy | with parameter grammar is not so easy |
| 06:42.08 | brlcad | beats me |
| 06:42.21 | brlcad | it just was some official specification |
| 06:44.21 | brlcad | it's an ISO standard (like STEP..) |
| 06:48.56 | brlcad | mm.. snippet example on wikipedia |
| 06:48.57 | brlcad | http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/CNC |
| 06:51.56 | brlcad | ISO 4342 |
| 07:03.38 | brlcad | is the overview, apparently ISO 6983 is the actual gcode codes |
| 07:03.51 | brlcad | even better example: http://www.dsic.upv.es/~jsilva/cnc/index.htm |
| 07:29.43 | CIA-5 | BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/include/raytrace.h: peculiar ifdef WIN32 commenting on three ifree functions for dsp, ebm, and vol primitives, enable them but recommend nobody rely on them till it gets sorted out |
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| 13:55.14 | cad328 | hi |
| 13:56.06 | cad328 | I got some initial install issues.. can anyone help? |
| 13:57.51 | cad328 | I untarred the binary for linux in /usr/brlcad.. performed export BRLCAD_ROOT="/usr/brlcad/" and executed mged |
| 13:58.49 | cad328 | but now when I try to open anything I get: No database has been opened!!! |
| 14:10.32 | brlcad | cad328: what's your exact command line for invoking mged? |
| 14:14.46 | brlcad | for starters, you should not need to set BRLCAD_ROOT |
| 14:15.08 | brlcad | that is only needed if you relocate the binaries to a location that they weren't compiled for |
| 14:16.00 | brlcad | the No database has been opened message should only be given if you start mged without a .g and try to perform modeling commands |
| 14:22.23 | cad328 | Thanks.. tried that out.. and now it starts okay... another little issue |
| 14:22.39 | cad328 | I try to import a .IGES file with iges-g |
| 14:22.57 | cad328 | iges-g -t -N gallery -o gallery-iges.g ../galeria.IGS |
| 14:23.02 | cad328 | and I get a segfault |
| 14:23.28 | cad328 | Number of entities checked: 1670Summary of entity types found: 8 Circular Arc (type 100) 230 Composite Curve (type 102) 516 Line (type 110) 2 Surface of Revolution (type 120) 24 Transformation Matrix (3X4) (type 124) 520 Rational B-Spline Curve (type 126) 112 Rational B-Spline Surface (type 128) 115 Curve on a Parametric Surface (type 142) 114 Trimmed Parametric Surface (type 144) 12 S |
| 14:24.03 | cad328 | I do apologise if I seem rather newbie... it's because I am.. |
| 14:30.03 | ``Erik | is galeria.IGS something that can be shared? |
| 15:16.18 | brlcad | apparently not |
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| 15:49.25 | alrbn | Galeria.iges is something that can be shared |
| 15:52.37 | *** join/#brlcad alrbn (n=alon@l192-115-132-16.broadband.actcom.net.il) | |
| 15:52.50 | alrbn | Hi.. hope this client works better |
| 15:56.48 | ``Erik | okie, unless brlcad sees an issue with your call line, it might be useful for you to go to http://sourceforge.net/projects/brlcad and submit a bug report, including info on how you got the source, the kind of machine, the command you ran, attach the file, ... and mebbe crank up gdb and try to get a backtrace :) |
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| 00:56.20 | Twingy | and remember, no dangling projects in front of me |
| 02:32.00 | Twingy | only you can prevent a forest fire |
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| 22:46.44 | Twingy | hmph, I had over 5700 people try out nurbana back in the day |
| 23:02.54 | ``Erik | o.O |
| 23:03.08 | ``Erik | done flooring? |
| 23:06.56 | Twingy | I've been working all day |
| 23:07.20 | ``Erik | on the railroad? |
| 23:07.27 | Twingy | on muves |
| 23:07.35 | ``Erik | s2? |
| 23:07.38 | Twingy | yep |
| 23:07.44 | ``Erik | wendy made us put the screens back int he windows |
| 23:07.52 | ``Erik | cuz dixie was whining about the wasps collecting in her office |
| 23:07.55 | ``Erik | :( |
| 23:07.58 | ``Erik | so much for that plan |
| 23:07.59 | Twingy | hah |
| 23:08.23 | Twingy | there is a huge tree just outside my fence that has started to uproot |
| 23:08.38 | Twingy | and has a 5 foot 1 inch gap in the center |
| 23:08.40 | ``Erik | as in; falling over? o.O |
| 23:08.56 | Twingy | I need to call hoa and have them remove |
| 23:09.18 | Twingy | maybe I can talk them into replacing it with something |
| 23:09.28 | ``Erik | heh, unlikely |
| 23:09.43 | Twingy | otherwise I'll buy a little 1 foot pine and plant it myself |
| 23:10.23 | ``Erik | trees around here seem pretty small, if it falls away from your fence, it'll probably be no problem... back in washington, when a tree fell over, it could pull roots 6' away up, so even falling away it'd tear apart a fence or something |
| 23:10.30 | Twingy | there's enough wood in that tree to do my floor |
| 23:10.45 | ``Erik | heh, ya think? you lose half the wood from cutting it down... |
| 23:11.12 | Twingy | I dunno about half |
| 23:11.24 | Twingy | maybe 1/5 |
| 23:12.17 | Twingy | http://js.cx/~justin/images/2006_winter_backyard.jpg |
| 23:12.28 | Twingy | that big one 1/3 from the right |
| 23:12.31 | Twingy | tilting right |
| 23:14.51 | archivist | time for chainsaw massacre |
| 23:15.19 | ``Erik | ;) |
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| 03:49.35 | Twingy | http://slashdot.org/ |
| 04:25.06 | pra5ad | omg |
| 04:47.10 | brlcad | :) |
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| 04:03.08 | pra5ad | fark |
| 04:05.20 | Twingy | beatings will continue until moral improves |
| 04:07.18 | pra5ad | fucking comcast again |
| 04:07.28 | pra5ad | comes to my building, doesnt ring the damn bell and leaves |
| 04:07.47 | Twingy | you don't have time for comcast |
| 04:07.51 | Twingy | you should be here laying hardwood |
| 04:08.02 | pra5ad | u never asked |
| 04:08.07 | Twingy | haha |
| 04:08.11 | Twingy | like you would offer a hand :P |
| 04:08.18 | pra5ad | i would |
| 04:08.56 | Twingy | I see a 2 acre plot in cecil county for $170k I want |
| 04:09.24 | pra5ad | ask me tuesday |
| 04:09.29 | pra5ad | my schedule is clear then |
| 04:09.31 | pra5ad | ;) |
| 04:09.38 | Twingy | heh |
| 04:09.46 | Twingy | I'm almost done |
| 04:09.50 | Twingy | I was busy today |
| 04:10.16 | pra5ad | me too |
| 04:10.29 | Twingy | truckload to the dump, washed truck, went running, grocery shopping, hardwood, home depot, lowes, hardwood |
| 04:10.48 | pra5ad | where's the dump |
| 04:10.53 | pra5ad | i need to offload some junk |
| 04:10.55 | Twingy | scarboro road |
| 04:11.02 | Twingy | do you live in harford county? |
| 04:11.07 | pra5ad | yes |
| 04:11.20 | Twingy | go where I tested my rocket motor |
| 04:11.33 | Twingy | but keep going another 0.5m and take a right and go 2m |
| 04:11.35 | pra5ad | the one i attended? |
| 04:11.37 | Twingy | yes |
| 04:11.40 | pra5ad | i c |
| 04:11.48 | pra5ad | do they take computer parts? |
| 04:11.53 | Twingy | they take anything |
| 04:11.59 | Twingy | $5 |
| 04:12.01 | pra5ad | mobos have toxic chems |
| 04:12.11 | pra5ad | i believe there's some procedure to dispose of em |
| 04:12.14 | Twingy | I know, I did a presentation on that soph year in college |
| 04:12.19 | pra5ad | wonder if said dump takes em |
| 04:12.26 | Twingy | I'm sure they don't care |
| 04:12.31 | pra5ad | heh |
| 04:12.31 | Twingy | it's up to you to care |
| 04:12.38 | pra5ad | eh? |
| 04:12.45 | Twingy | they move about 100 cars/trucks through there an hour |
| 04:12.47 | pra5ad | care to find someone to take mobos? |
| 04:12.52 | Twingy | correct |
| 04:12.56 | Twingy | they don't inspect your garbage |
| 04:13.03 | Twingy | just give it a glance |
| 04:13.12 | pra5ad | so dead bodies are ok? |
| 04:13.17 | Twingy | they might ask you to take the metal to the metal area |
| 04:13.19 | pra5ad | i mean biological matter... |
| 04:13.28 | Twingy | you could probably get away with throwing a body there |
| 04:13.34 | Twingy | as long as it was in a bag |
| 04:13.39 | Twingy | in several pieces |
| 04:13.46 | Twingy | nobody would ever know |
| 04:14.06 | pra5ad | mm snatch (the movie) |
| 04:14.14 | Twingy | snatchatory rape? |
| 04:14.19 | pra5ad | pig farm for the win |
| 04:14.25 | pra5ad | u havent seen snatch? |
| 04:14.30 | pra5ad | guy ritchie film |
| 04:14.33 | Twingy | I've seen lots of snatch |
| 04:14.43 | pra5ad | imaginary ones don't count |
| 04:14.45 | Twingy | just not recently |
| 04:14.56 | pra5ad | and im talking about a film =) |
| 04:15.01 | Twingy | I've been seeing ceramic tiles and hardwood instead |
| 04:15.09 | pra5ad | those movies suck |
| 04:15.11 | Twingy | nope, haven't seen the film |
| 04:15.23 | Twingy | I'm about to install another ceiling fan I think |
| 04:15.35 | Twingy | bought one to replace the hanging light above kitchen table |
| 04:15.45 | pra5ad | start another 'movie day' |
| 04:15.49 | pra5ad | ill bring the movie |
| 04:15.52 | Twingy | that will make a good ending to today |
| 04:15.54 | pra5ad | worth watching |
| 04:15.57 | Twingy | hrm |
| 04:16.03 | Twingy | we have wendy 9000 though |
| 04:16.08 | Twingy | it might not be 'appropriate' |
| 04:16.18 | pra5ad | gah |
| 04:16.24 | Twingy | I think I pissed chuck off |
| 04:16.27 | Twingy | in a good way |
| 04:16.33 | pra5ad | good way? |
| 04:16.35 | Twingy | we were mid work on some helmet stuff |
| 04:16.54 | Twingy | and asked me on progress, told him I can't work on it any longer cause I've been reprioritized |
| 04:17.16 | Twingy | wendy sent out a nice email to the bc's telling them to stop giving me new work |
| 04:17.38 | Twingy | I'm liking all the attention :) |
| 04:17.53 | pra5ad | about dangling? |
| 04:17.55 | pra5ad | i was there |
| 04:18.09 | Twingy | russell is getting impatient |
| 04:18.25 | pra5ad | heh im gonna make a little promo movie |
| 04:18.28 | pra5ad | for 'muves' |
| 04:18.49 | Twingy | one's already been made |
| 04:18.50 | pra5ad | 3D UI, etc, etc |
| 04:18.53 | Twingy | it's called 'Titanic' |
| 04:18.58 | pra5ad | lol |
| 04:19.00 | pra5ad | g1 |
| 04:19.15 | pra5ad | i just wanna show them what is possible |
| 04:19.21 | pra5ad | maybe then they'll get a clue |
| 04:19.42 | Twingy | I want to make a little promo that shows how I stopped caring 2 years ago :) |
| 04:20.04 | Twingy | 6 months of talking about muves at lunch was fun |
| 04:20.08 | Twingy | after that... >_< |
| 04:20.20 | pra5ad | heh |
| 04:20.37 | Twingy | I'd rather talk about ponies :) |
| 04:20.50 | pra5ad | omg ponies |
| 04:20.53 | Twingy | excuse me, OMG PonIEs! |
| 04:21.07 | pra5ad | KEKEKEKEKEKE |
| 04:21.13 | Twingy | ROFL OMG HAHA |
| 04:21.33 | pra5ad | =>^^<=' |
| 04:22.05 | pra5ad | bad news |
| 04:22.21 | pra5ad | jogl has comparable performance to native gl |
| 04:22.21 | Twingy | you lost an eye from a crab fork? |
| 04:22.33 | Twingy | ok? |
| 04:22.50 | pra5ad | means they'll prolly keep java |
| 04:23.01 | Twingy | like I said, don't care :) |
| 04:23.04 | pra5ad | even for the ui |
| 04:23.32 | pra5ad | s/bad news/bad news for me/ |
| 04:23.36 | Twingy | rubbish |
| 04:23.43 | Twingy | yea, sucks 2 b u |
| 04:24.02 | pra5ad | im gonna push hard for cell |
| 04:24.07 | Twingy | MUVES 4EVA!!! |
| 04:24.16 | pra5ad | and sell it to SAB as their savior |
| 04:24.22 | Twingy | I'm gonna... install a ceiling fan |
| 04:24.24 | pra5ad | and jump ship |
| 04:24.27 | Twingy | bbl |
| 04:30.34 | brlcad | that's some good eat'n |
| 05:19.14 | pra5ad | i went to bertucci's =( |
| 05:39.28 | Twingy | done |
| 05:41.53 | Twingy | http://js.cx/~justin/images/kitchen_ceiling_fan_before.jpg |
| 05:41.58 | Twingy | http://js.cx/~justin/images/kitchen_ceiling_fan_after.jpg |
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| 21:55.56 | CIA-5 | BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/TODO: have libbu report memory allocation statistics |
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| 03:09.24 | pra5ad | woooo! |
| 03:09.26 | pra5ad | go terps |
| 03:09.45 | Twingy | now I know how the egyptian slaves felt while building the pyramids |
| 03:10.15 | Twingy | though, the hardwood floor is looking like 1/2 the work as the ceramic kitchen floor |
| 03:10.29 | Twingy | and alot less messy |
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| 16:55.02 | CIA-5 | BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/include/raytrace.h: in fact, we can't rely on the _ifree() functions as they conflict with declarations in other files.. need to investigate more, but just disable for now |
| 17:02.52 | CIA-5 | BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/TODO: benchmarks are working again, so we're good to go. slated for later: fix the laundry list of security issues reported by Pedro, demote some of the next iteration items as well (autogen overrides, configure optimization) |
| 17:10.34 | CIA-5 | BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/bench/pixcmp.c: missing string.h |
| 17:18.17 | CIA-5 | BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/doc/README.IRIX: update the documentation with comments about gcc crashing on -O3. also provide the actual recommended production release build configure lines for 32-bit and 64-bit if only for convenience to future releases. |
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| 18:10.24 | CIA-5 | BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/conv/iges/trimsurf.c: fourth parameter seems to be missing... make a note of it |
| 18:20.25 | CIA-5 | BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/ (18 files in 3 dirs): more header/warning cleanup from Intel compiler warnings on Altix |
| 19:16.11 | CIA-5 | BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/ (6 files in 2 dirs): more header/warning cleanup from Intel compiler warnings on Altix |
| 19:16.36 | CIA-5 | BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/ (rttherm/ssampview.c fbed/execshell.c): more header/warning cleanup from Intel compiler warnings on Altix |
| 19:18.02 | CIA-5 | BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/tclscripts/archer/tclIndex: meh, silly supposedly static file got reordered |
| 19:18.29 | CIA-5 | BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/ (irprep/all_sf.c irprep/shapefact.c libdm/options.c): more header/warning cleanup from Intel compiler warnings on Altix |
| 19:19.49 | CIA-5 | BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/ (lgt/execshell.c lgt/hmenu.c lgt/reflect.c nirt/showshot.c): more header/warning cleanup from Intel compiler warnings on Altix |
| 19:22.27 | CIA-5 | BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/other/URToolkit/ (3 files in 2 dirs): more header/warning cleanup from Intel compiler warnings on Altix |
| 19:54.59 | CIA-5 | BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/ (6 files in 2 dirs): more header/warning cleanup from Intel compiler warnings on Altix |
| 20:04.29 | CIA-5 | BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/util/ttcp.c: remove the have_unistd_h check so that ttcp may remain completely stand-alone |
| 20:14.44 | CIA-5 | BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/BUGS: xpush sometimes doesn't work |
| 20:22.40 | tegtmeye | exit |
| 20:27.08 | archivist | looking at the database format tonight re temperature, material and expansion and the resulting center of gravity, havnt found much yet any pointers? |
| 20:29.28 | CIA-5 | BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/BUGS: boo hiss, Creat 'part' |
| 20:30.22 | *** join/#brlcad grumbel (n=grumbel@i5387E582.versanet.de) | |
| 20:55.47 | CIA-5 | BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/TODO: option to mged make command or new command that enters solid edit mode.. same for cp command. (suggestions from dwayne) |
| 20:57.18 | CIA-5 | BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/TODO: analyze command doesn't print values with enough precision |
| 21:03.13 | *** part/#brlcad grumbel (n=grumbel@i5387E582.versanet.de) | |
| 21:14.13 | CIA-5 | BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/TODO: optimize CSG structures automatically, automatic simplification |
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| 21:53.53 | *** topic/#brlcad is http://brlcad.org/ || BRL-CAD is now Free Software! || BRL-CAD Windows port has been merged to HEAD, not yet stable yet || Archer is now on HEAD as well, kick the tires, report any bugs || there WILL be a 7.6.8 released ASAP for January after all | |
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| 15:12.10 | *** topic/#brlcad is http://brlcad.org/ || BRL-CAD is now Free Software! || BRL-CAD Windows port has been merged to HEAD, not yet stable yet || Archer is now on HEAD as well, kick the tires, report any bugs || there WILL be a 7.6.8 released ASAP for January after all | |
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| 18:43.10 | CIA-5 | BRL-CAD: 03bob1961 * 10brlcad/src/librt/wdb_obj.c: Modify wdb_get_obj_bounds() and wdb_get_obj_bounds2() to properly free their rt_i instances. Modify wdb_binary_cmd to call fopen with the 'b' flag if on Windows. |
| 18:45.55 | CIA-5 | BRL-CAD: 03bob1961 * 10brlcad/src/tclscripts/lib/Db.tcl: Modify the shareDb method to set the sharedDb flag. |
| 18:47.25 | CIA-5 | BRL-CAD: 03bob1961 * 10brlcad/src/tclscripts/archer/Archer.tcl: Minor mods to set the default button on a few dialogs. |
| 19:21.40 | CIA-5 | BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/bwish/cmd.c: quell warnings from intel compiler, use long type |
| 19:30.55 | CIA-5 | BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/conv/ (11 files in 3 dirs): quell/fix issues raised by the Intel compiler on Altix |
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| 19:56.36 | CIA-5 | BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/fb/ (bw-fb.c fbcmap.c fbcolor.c pix-fb.c pixflip-fb.c pp-fb.c): quell/fix issues raised by the Intel compiler on Altix |
| 20:07.24 | CIA-5 | BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/liboptical/ (6 files): quell/fix issues raised by the Intel compiler on Altix |
| 20:38.39 | CIA-5 | BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/util/ (7 files): quell/fix issues raised by the Intel compiler on Altix |
| 20:50.36 | CIA-5 | BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/mged/ (21 files): quell/fix issues raised by the Intel compiler on Altix |
| 21:00.42 | CIA-5 | BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/include/raytrace.h: windows needs these or apps won't link.. need to figure out why still |
| 21:46.37 | CIA-5 | BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/m4/cache.m4: ack, missing trailing ` on the exec command |
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| 01:59.28 | *** join/#brlcad richard12345 (n=chatzill@209.53.180.250) | |
| 02:01.09 | richard12345 | Hi, I was curious to know where I can download the WinXP version of BRL CAD, as it seems missing on the SF pages and yet is listed as supporting it. |
| 02:03.00 | learner | richard12345, there is a beta available to select groups, just not on sf.net |
| 02:03.20 | learner | richard12345, there will be a binary download available on sf.net in about a week if you can wait (much better than the beta) |
| 02:04.08 | richard12345 | Yes I can wait for a week. Are you sure? |
| 02:04.48 | richard12345 | Do you know if it does automatic dimensioning? |
| 02:05.06 | learner | i do know |
| 02:05.11 | learner | it does not :) |
| 02:05.36 | richard12345 | It does not do autodimensioning? |
| 02:05.46 | learner | richard12345, the 7.8.0 release is being prepared as I type this -- unix binaries likely will post tomorrow, first windows shortly thereafter |
| 02:05.48 | richard12345 | How do people model with it then? :) |
| 02:06.12 | learner | it's quite powerful in other aspects ;) |
| 02:06.22 | richard12345 | Great! |
| 02:06.26 | richard12345 | has anyone ever attempted architecture with it? |
| 02:06.34 | richard12345 | So I hear. |
| 02:06.34 | learner | somewhat different modeling philosophy in general from what you're probably used to as well |
| 02:06.42 | learner | yes, they have |
| 02:06.57 | richard12345 | That's good to know. |
| 02:07.49 | richard12345 | I've done boolean if that's what you're talking about in terms of modeling philosophy. |
| 02:08.05 | learner | hm, that reminds me .. there is was an architecture company in florida that was interested in making the mods necessary to make brl-cad their primary sole modeler.. should see what they're up to |
| 02:08.22 | learner | not just boolean, but that is certainly part of it |
| 02:08.48 | richard12345 | What would the architecture company be? |
| 02:08.55 | learner | reading through the mged tutorial might give you a basic idea of some of the fundamentals |
| 02:09.07 | richard12345 | on the main site? |
| 02:09.09 | richard12345 | ok |
| 02:09.11 | learner | i can't recall their name.. just remembered their interest |
| 02:09.12 | learner | yeah |
| 02:09.35 | learner | it was a small firm, iirc |
| 02:10.33 | richard12345 | Fair enough. Anyway, thanks for the news and direction. I'll check it out and see. Catch you later! |
| 02:10.34 | learner | quick overview of the primitives here i put together a while ago: http://ftp.brlcad.org/tmp/primitives/Primitives3_grouped_labels.png |
| 02:10.53 | learner | no probl. cheers |
| 02:10.59 | richard12345 | I'll read it over dinner. :) Thanks again. |
| 02:19.29 | CIA-5 | BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/configure.ac: define USE_FBSERV so libdm/mged allow direct fbserv render connections |
| 08:24.31 | CIA-5 | BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/other/URToolkit/tools/mallocNd.c: dont use the k&r-style malloc extern now that the file correctly includes/presumes stdlib.h for it |
| 13:26.31 | CIA-5 | BRL-CAD: 03jlowenz 07trimnurbs-branch * 10brlcad/include/nurb.h: |
| 13:26.31 | CIA-5 | BRL-CAD: ws; changed oslo matrix vector to be statically allocated and added support for |
| 13:26.31 | CIA-5 | BRL-CAD: oslo matrix pools (structure and accessors for struct oslo_mat). dynamic |
| 13:26.31 | CIA-5 | BRL-CAD: allocation of olso_mats were a serious bottleneck in profiling results. |
| 13:30.25 | CIA-5 | BRL-CAD: 03jlowenz 07trimnurbs-branch * 10brlcad/src/librt/g_nurb.c: ws; fixed trim curve looping constructs in export/import routines; fixed nurb sizing routine |
| 13:33.07 | CIA-5 | BRL-CAD: 03jlowenz 07trimnurbs-branch * 10brlcad/src/librt/nurb_copy.c: ws; added support to copy trim contours when copying surfaces |
| 17:49.44 | CIA-5 | BRL-CAD: 03jlowenz 07trimnurbs-branch * 10brlcad/src/librt/ (nurb_refine.c nurb_split.c nurb_xsplit.c): modified call to rt_nurb_free_oslo to support new implementation |
| 18:31.47 | CIA-5 | BRL-CAD: 03jlowenz 07trimnurbs-branch * 10brlcad/src/librt/nurb_trim.c: added rt_nurb_uv_trimmed() to support calculating whether an intersection is inside/outside a trim contour. |
| 18:36.30 | CIA-5 | BRL-CAD: 03jlowenz 07trimnurbs-branch * 10brlcad/src/librt/nurb_util.c: fix broken BU_LIST manipulations; added functions to support new pool-based oslo_mat allocation, uses accessors: rt_nurb_new_oslo()/rt_nurb_free_oslo() |
| 18:37.51 | CIA-5 | BRL-CAD: 03jlowenz 07trimnurbs-branch * 10brlcad/src/librt/oslo_calc.c: utilize new allocation/free routines for oslo_mat |
| 18:39.25 | CIA-5 | BRL-CAD: 03jlowenz 07trimnurbs-branch * 10brlcad/src/libwdb/nurb.c: comment detail |
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| 19:08.50 | CIA-5 | BRL-CAD: 03jlowenz 07trimnurbs-branch * 10brlcad/ (BUGS NEWS TODO configure.ac): update from HEAD |
| 19:25.21 | CIA-5 | BRL-CAD: 03jlowenz 07trimnurbs-branch * 10brlcad/ (5 files in 3 dirs): update from HEAD |
| 19:26.56 | CIA-5 | BRL-CAD: 03jlowenz 07trimnurbs-branch * 10brlcad/ (30 files in 11 dirs): update from HEAD |
| 19:30.57 | CIA-5 | BRL-CAD: 03jlowenz 07trimnurbs-branch * 10brlcad/src/ (69 files in 9 dirs): update from HEAD |
| 19:34.43 | CIA-5 | BRL-CAD: 03jlowenz 07trimnurbs-branch * 10brlcad/src/ (130 files in 19 dirs): update from HEAD |
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| 20:10.07 | *** topic/#brlcad is http://brlcad.org/ || BRL-CAD is now Free Software! || BRL-CAD Windows port has been merged to HEAD, not yet stable yet || Archer is now on HEAD as well, kick the tires, report any bugs || there WILL be a 7.6.8 released ASAP for January after all | |
| 23:28.21 | Twingy | http://img100.imageshack.us/img100/4018/eastercard0yu.jpg |
| 00:22.20 | brlcad | heh |
| 01:02.54 | ``Erik | :D |
| 01:06.03 | brlcad | anger management? |
| 01:06.25 | archivist | I think a good woman should take erik in hand and give him a good spanking |
| 01:06.57 | archivist | hmm perhaps not he may like it too much |
| 01:12.43 | brlcad | undoubtedly |
| 01:29.38 | ``Erik | O.o |
| 01:30.04 | ``Erik | you heard him, sean, find me a good woman :D |
| 02:03.11 | brlcad | that sounds like a challenge |
| 02:03.13 | brlcad | er, I mean |
| 02:03.18 | brlcad | that sounds challenging |
| 02:03.24 | brlcad | *ahem* |
| 03:06.55 | Twingy | wanna write an interpreter in C erik? |
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| 08:33.19 | Twingy | http://gcam.js.cx/images/GCAM_PS_200604080432.jpg |
| 12:00.59 | ``Erik | interpreter of what? |
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| 22:44.53 | brlcad | there are lex/yacc grammars for a C interpreter already written that you could just use |
| 22:52.50 | Twingy | I don't want a C interpreter |
| 22:52.56 | Twingy | I want an interpreter written in C |
| 22:56.05 | archivist | ti interpret what? g codes |
| 22:56.47 | Twingy | yes, but I think I'm going to write it rather than explain what I need |
| 22:58.52 | archivist | fun |
| 22:59.10 | Twingy | http://gcam.js.cx/images/GCAM_PS_200604080432.jpg |
| 22:59.13 | Twingy | I did that last night |
| 22:59.25 | Twingy | using my cylinder primitive |
| 22:59.58 | Twingy | It is totally unoptimized and took 57 minutes to run |
| 23:00.03 | brlcad | that looks horrible :) |
| 23:00.18 | Twingy | it was a piece of scrap from the floor |
| 23:00.24 | Twingy | how so? |
| 23:01.04 | archivist | 57 mins how many laps , was the cutter worn out through wear (too long a contact time) |
| 23:01.29 | Twingy | my software pushed it through 3 layers per cylinder |
| 23:01.49 | Twingy | and I think 5 or 6 revolutions per layer |
| 23:02.01 | Twingy | one on the right is 20% smaller |
| 23:02.22 | brlcad | it just looks like a piece of scrap is all :) |
| 23:02.36 | Twingy | the precision would be higher if I had aluminum |
| 23:02.43 | Twingy | but this is very good for wood |
| 23:02.56 | Twingy | wood splinters now matter what precision you have |
| 23:03.01 | Twingy | s/now/no |
| 23:03.24 | Twingy | the two cylinders in the middle are all I milled |
| 23:03.33 | Twingy | the rest is the actual scrap |
| 23:03.45 | archivist | got to get the cutter speed up to minimise splinters in wood |
| 23:03.58 | Twingy | doesn't matter how high it is, still going to splinter |
| 23:04.31 | Twingy | these circles are slightly larger than the size of my thumbnail |
| 23:04.35 | archivist | does kinetics mean a cut instead of splinter |
| 23:06.20 | Twingy | there really isn't any splintering on the circles |
| 23:07.02 | archivist | I noticed its reasonably smooth |
| 23:07.43 | Twingy | I basically just blew out the sawdust and wiped it down with a piece of sand paper for a few seconds |
| 23:07.57 | Twingy | didn't really need any work |
| 23:08.15 | Twingy | anywho, back to coding |
| 23:09.40 | archivist | the thng that buggers the finish on the cnc miller here is that it stops for a ms or three while its moves to the next primative |
| 23:10.02 | archivist | and so leaves marks |
| 23:10.30 | Twingy | I don't notice it in wood |
| 23:11.24 | Twingy | soon I will have to build my forge |
| 23:12.00 | archivist | hehe I might put up a pic of the forge I built outside here for 1 job |
| 23:14.43 | Twingy | I'm adding tool change code now |
| 23:16.27 | archivist | www.archivist.info/forge |
| 23:17.17 | archivist | didnt have coal used barbeque briquets |
| 23:17.20 | Twingy | dude, that's ghetto :) |
| 23:17.57 | Twingy | I'm going to build a mobile cart that hold a propane tank and burner for melting aluminum |
| 23:18.06 | archivist | not much wind from a 386 power supply |
| 23:20.00 | Twingy | I just need to get my mig welder so I can make it |
| 23:20.15 | Twingy | debating whether to buy the fish tank before or it or not |
| 23:20.57 | archivist | get the welder then make the fishtank |
| 23:21.23 | Twingy | I was thinking about doing that |
| 23:21.32 | Twingy | and use my mill to make some braces |
| 23:22.04 | Twingy | will hold the glass in place and then I can just add caulk |
| 23:22.49 | Twingy | it'll be totally over engineered |
| 23:26.02 | Twingy | I will need to work on my glass cutting skills first |
| 23:27.10 | archivist | lube the cutter with a light oil, scribe once only with firm pressure |
| 23:27.37 | archivist | watch a pro for a few minutes |
| 23:27.40 | Twingy | I'm talking about cutting out circles |
| 23:28.03 | archivist | they make it look easy |
| 23:28.31 | Twingy | I'm tempted to maybe use plexiglas instead |
| 23:28.59 | Twingy | 1/4" plexiglas is good stuff |
| 23:29.39 | Twingy | mount it in a box groove |
| 23:30.01 | Twingy | and far lighter |
| 23:33.06 | Twingy | yea, I'll do that |
| 23:33.18 | Twingy | and build aluminum support braces, will look sweet |
| 23:46.26 | archivist | we did a plexyglass cover for a church clock, to stop the sandstone grit from getting in the gears |
| 23:47.36 | Twingy | how is your mill coming |
| 23:52.17 | archivist | www.archivist.info/forge/machinery.html |
| 23:53.34 | archivist | it needs the software re doing, we may refit the electronics to do that |
| 23:54.03 | archivist | I usually use it by pressing the buttons !!! |
| 23:54.26 | archivist | as the software is so bad |
| 23:55.19 | archivist | Ive got 3 other millers here to use |
| 23:58.36 | Twingy | heh |
| 00:00.32 | archivist | www.archivist.info/forge/garvin.html the oldest miller |
| 00:00.40 | archivist | used this last week |
| 00:02.50 | archivist | ignore lack of modern health and safety |
| 00:07.11 | archivist | hmm after a quick google the garvin vertical seems to be a bit rare, we guess first world war vintage |
| 00:17.14 | Twingy | who is we |
| 00:18.13 | archivist | two of us here the boss and me |
| 00:18.29 | Twingy | looks like that place needs a little spring cleaning |
| 00:18.52 | archivist | no space!! |
| 00:19.08 | archivist | too much work to do |
| 00:19.12 | Twingy | how many sq ft? |
| 00:20.13 | archivist | 20x40ft with the basement 2/3rd dug out |
| 00:20.30 | archivist | an old 1913 tin curch |
| 00:20.36 | archivist | an old 1913 tin church |
| 00:20.47 | Twingy | yea, that is tiny |
| 00:21.40 | archivist | specially if you see how much is stuffed in |
| 00:21.54 | Twingy | yea |
| 00:22.01 | Twingy | I only got room for 2 more tools |
| 00:22.10 | Twingy | will probly be the mig welder and a lathe |
| 00:24.08 | archivist | we also have a portacabin in the yard (cnc is in there and some of my electronics ) |
| 00:24.43 | archivist | southebend lathe is nice |
| 00:24.51 | Twingy | I'm gonna get a grizzly |
| 01:39.41 | pra5ad | hd-pbs |
| 01:39.43 | pra5ad | mm mmmmm |
| 01:39.56 | Twingy | cnc mill mmmm |
| 01:40.09 | Twingy | getting close to the point where you can design your robotic hand |
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| 19:18.37 | Kakihara | I'm helping my parents design a new house. Could brlcad help in this? |
| 19:34.43 | Twingy | it can be used, yes |
| 19:35.02 | Twingy | however, there are programs out there more suited like autodesk |
| 20:12.13 | archivist | punch software http://www.punchsoftware.com/index.htm has a 50$ home designer |
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| 20:36.02 | Kakihara | Twingy and arhivist: thanks |
| 20:36.10 | Kakihara | archivist I mean |
| 20:39.23 | *** part/#brlcad Kakihara (n=Kakihara@84.9.137.0) | |
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| 23:04.26 | Twingy | http://gcam.js.cx/images/GCAM_PS_200604091905.jpg |
| 23:06.27 | brlcad | neat |
| 23:07.30 | archivist | still fraid of metal then |
| 23:07.38 | Twingy | don't have any |
| 23:07.45 | Twingy | just a garbage can full of 30lbs of aluminum |
| 23:08.07 | Twingy | one the living room and garage are done being remodeled, I can build my aluminum forge |
| 23:08.17 | Twingy | and make a bunch of aluminum bricks |
| 23:10.08 | Twingy | I'll be adding a sketch feature that lets you import a bitmap |
| 23:10.21 | Twingy | but that's a ways off |
| 23:10.36 | archivist | dxf to gcode as well |
| 23:10.37 | Twingy | it'll be used for milling out traces on a circuit board |
| 23:10.38 | brlcad | this would be sweet http://db.brlcad.org/tmp/avatar.gif |
| 23:10.43 | Twingy | dxf is yucky |
| 23:10.54 | archivist | i know |
| 23:11.06 | Twingy | I don't plan to support triangle formats |
| 23:11.22 | Twingy | triangles are yucky for this |
| 23:11.23 | archivist | ive written scripts to fix dxf's |
| 23:12.28 | Twingy | okie |
| 23:13.09 | archivist | had to join the lines up for a laser cutter |
| 23:13.51 | Twingy | my buddy john is building one right now with a 25 watt CO2 laser |
| 23:15.10 | archivist | a freind got a laser from the scrap yard but not been brave enough to switch it on |
| 23:15.58 | Twingy | without a lens they aren't very useful |
| 23:17.31 | Twingy | ok, time to work on my file format |
| 00:04.54 | pra5ad | im glued to my tv now |
| 00:04.56 | pra5ad | damn you HD |
| 00:04.59 | pra5ad | damn you! |
| 00:24.06 | Twingy | not good :) |
| 00:24.31 | Twingy | I watch like 3 hours a week |
| 00:24.38 | Twingy | I wonder why I pay for it |
| 00:24.55 | Twingy | I guess cause I can |
| 00:26.49 | Twingy | pra5ad, you should start designing your robot parts |
| 00:27.08 | Twingy | you can make them out of wood before comitting to metal |
| 03:34.10 | pra5ad | heh robots arent exactly on my mind right now |
| 03:35.03 | Twingy | http://gcam.js.cx/ |
| 03:38.57 | Twingy | you see stocks dropped on friday? |
| 03:39.32 | Twingy | Top Financial News |
| 03:39.32 | Twingy | Some Worry 1st-Quarter Stock Rally Is Over |
| 03:39.45 | Twingy | just posted on yahoo financial |
| 03:54.47 | Twingy | esta fuego! |
| 04:54.18 | Twingy | 0xBED |
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| 18:26.04 | *** join/#brlcad IngMan (n=c9f59545@bz.bzflag.bz) | |
| 18:26.44 | IngMan | Hi people |
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| 00:08.56 | *** join/#brlcad pyranha (n=pyranha@master.solcore.net) | |
| 00:09.17 | pyranha | hello |
| 00:09.41 | pyranha | has anyone in here installed brlcad on a gentoo based system? |
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| 01:09.07 | brlcad | pyranha yes, there have been several that have installed brl-cad on a gentoo system |
| 01:09.14 | brlcad | ahh, not here |
| 01:12.30 | Twingy | 39 more days of running >_< |
| 02:36.06 | *** join/#brlcad ibot (i=ibot@rikers.org) | |
| 02:36.06 | *** topic/#brlcad is http://brlcad.org/ || BRL-CAD is now Free Software! || BRL-CAD Windows port has been merged to HEAD, not yet stable yet || Archer is now on HEAD as well, kick the tires, report any bugs || there WILL be a 7.6.8 released ASAP for January after all | |
| 03:01.02 | pra5ad | well well |
| 03:01.08 | pra5ad | just got tsp confirmations |
| 03:01.15 | Twingy | heh |
| 03:01.35 | Twingy | stocks just went up 8000% |
| 03:01.41 | Twingy | guess you shoulda stayed put |
| 03:01.51 | pra5ad | shazbot! |
| 03:01.54 | Twingy | :) |
| 03:07.39 | pra5ad | woot |
| 03:07.49 | pra5ad | somehow this transfer netted me $200 |
| 03:08.07 | Twingy | sure it wasn't the rise in stock? |
| 03:08.25 | pra5ad | what exactly went up? G? |
| 03:08.38 | Twingy | cause mine went $150 during the transfer |
| 03:08.47 | Twingy | but I think its cause they were still climbing |
| 03:08.59 | Twingy | maybe it's a loophole :) |
| 03:09.23 | Twingy | day trading tsp funds! |
| 03:09.57 | pra5ad | hah |
| 03:10.06 | pra5ad | like this oblivion gold hack |
| 03:10.24 | pra5ad | keep transfering gold from inventory and drops |
| 03:10.37 | pra5ad | eventually build up a fortune |
| 03:11.10 | Twingy | heh |
| 03:11.38 | Twingy | does that make you a gold digger? |
| 03:12.30 | CIA-9 | BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/NEWS: release note details for 7.6.8 and 7.8.0 |
| 03:13.29 | pra5ad | if i was a hot woman and the tsp fund was a rich guy |
| 03:13.30 | pra5ad | then yes.. |
| 03:14.07 | Twingy | I knew it |
| 03:14.15 | CIA-9 | BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/ (configure.ac include/config_win.h): update version to 7.8.0, preparing for release |
| 03:15.00 | pra5ad | ur script needs a date range function |
| 03:15.08 | Twingy | meh |
| 03:18.28 | CIA-9 | BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/ChangeLog: update Changelog with entries since 2006.12.22, preparing for release 7.8.0 |
| 03:26.32 | CIA-9 | BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/ (README configure.ac NEWS include/config_win.h): bump to developer rev 7.8.1, cvs is tagged with rel-7-8-0 |
| 03:32.37 | CIA-9 | BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/configure.ac: redo 7.8.0 version number |
| 03:33.36 | CIA-9 | BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/configure.ac: bump correctly to 7.8.1 after retag |
| 03:40.20 | pra5ad | [2]prasad@duriel:/var/www :. date -v2003y -v06m -v+2m +%Y%m |
| 03:40.20 | pra5ad | date: invalid option -- v |
| 03:40.22 | pra5ad | hmph |
| 03:40.48 | Twingy | [justin@lithium:~]$ date -v2003y -v06m -v+2m +%Y%m |
| 03:40.48 | Twingy | 200308 |
| 03:41.12 | pra5ad | :. date --version |
| 03:41.12 | pra5ad | date (coreutils) 5.2.1 |
| 03:41.12 | pra5ad | Written by David MacKenzie. |
| 03:41.17 | Twingy | linux sucks :) |
| 03:41.29 | pra5ad | bah |
| 03:41.37 | Twingy | <PROTECTED> |
| 03:41.37 | Twingy | <PROTECTED> |
| 03:44.13 | pra5ad | fsa for me then |
| 03:44.41 | Twingy | hrm? |
| 03:44.52 | pra5ad | if (m > 12) m = 0 |
| 03:44.56 | pra5ad | :p |
| 03:48.12 | Twingy | heh |
| 03:48.20 | Twingy | my file format is sooo overengineered |
| 03:48.27 | Twingy | this thing will never need changing |
| 04:04.35 | Twingy | heh |
| 04:04.41 | Twingy | an hour of changing code and it just compiles |
| 04:07.07 | Twingy | heh |
| 04:07.23 | Twingy | 73 million dollars to crash 2 tons into the moon |
| 04:07.36 | Twingy | and we complain about $80k of air conditioning |
| 04:08.28 | pra5ad | gah ur gplot script breaks on my box |
| 04:08.41 | Twingy | old version? |
| 04:11.05 | pra5ad | extra linebreaks |
| 04:11.11 | pra5ad | whats tsp_image.cgi |
| 04:11.24 | Twingy | it opens an image and writes binary data |
| 04:11.32 | Twingy | to the user |
| 04:11.40 | pra5ad | post it |
| 04:12.35 | Twingy | http://tsp.js.cx/tsp_image.pl |
| 04:17.15 | pra5ad | yay! |
| 04:52.19 | Twingy | working? |
| 04:57.24 | pra5ad | yup |
| 04:57.32 | pra5ad | ill hack it tomorrow |
| 04:58.30 | Twingy | first you have to pay me royalties |
| 04:58.45 | Twingy | under the justin cost-you-lots licensing (tm) |
| 04:59.36 | pra5ad | http://141.157.106.216:8080/tsp/tsp.pl |
| 04:59.40 | pra5ad | does that work for u? |
| 04:59.53 | Twingy | I renamed those to pl, they were cgi |
| 04:59.58 | Twingy | so that server would not parse |
| 05:00.08 | pra5ad | well does it work? |
| 05:00.25 | Twingy | seems to |
| 05:00.29 | pra5ad | k |
| 05:01.00 | Twingy | pra5ad, make us rich |
| 05:01.15 | Twingy | we shall thwart the tsp system |
| 05:01.41 | pra5ad | now i need to tie this into wsj somehow |
| 05:01.43 | Twingy | then get caught up in some money laundering scandal |
| 05:01.49 | Twingy | wtf is wsj |
| 05:01.56 | pra5ad | wall street journal |
| 05:02.17 | Twingy | heh |
| 05:02.25 | Twingy | I have much simpler method |
| 05:02.39 | Twingy | take a 50 - 100 day span |
| 05:02.42 | Twingy | most recent |
| 05:02.49 | pra5ad | compare to gas prices? |
| 05:02.52 | Twingy | compare against last 250 |
| 05:03.01 | Twingy | if curve is above an outlier |
| 05:03.07 | Twingy | move down |
| 05:03.08 | Twingy | if it's down |
| 05:03.11 | Twingy | move up |
| 05:03.17 | pra5ad | crude |
| 05:03.20 | Twingy | move down == goto g, move up == goto S and I |
| 05:03.21 | Twingy | works |
| 05:03.25 | pra5ad | breaks for small noise |
| 05:03.35 | Twingy | the small noise is 5 - 25 |
| 05:03.45 | Twingy | 100 provides a very healthy sample |
| 05:03.52 | Twingy | remember all these are composites |
| 05:03.59 | Twingy | so they are already filtered |
| 05:13.17 | Twingy | ooh, sweet |
| 05:13.25 | Twingy | loading is almost done |
| 14:46.58 | *** topic/#brlcad by brlcad -> http://brlcad.org/ || BRL-CAD is now Free Software! || Release 7.8.0 is Posted! | |
| 14:51.45 | archivist | you been sent packing then |
| 14:55.46 | ``Erik | o.O |
| 14:59.09 | ``Erik | *grouse* changin' --enable names ain't polite |
| 15:02.39 | ``Erik | also; completely breaking them, uncool |
| 15:06.33 | brlcad | :) |
| 15:07.26 | brlcad | ``Erik: the intent for the packaging systems is to use --enable-everything or --disable-everything followed by --enable-whatever for specific packages, adding the rest to the dependency list |
| 15:07.42 | brlcad | I don't believe you can disable tcl/tk/itcl/iwidgets yet still |
| 15:07.56 | brlcad | at least not tk |
| 15:08.06 | brlcad | and itcl/itk, last I checked |
| 15:08.17 | ``Erik | that ain't what I'm grousing about |
| 15:08.30 | brlcad | jove crap? |
| 15:08.37 | brlcad | --disable-jove |
| 15:08.52 | ``Erik | yeah, you have an over-wide conditional |
| 15:08.52 | brlcad | (all those -build suffixes are optional) |
| 15:08.59 | brlcad | oh? |
| 15:14.15 | ``Erik | *testtesttest* |
| 15:18.26 | CIA-9 | BRL-CAD: 03erikgreenwald * 10brlcad/configure.ac: fix an over-zealous conditional so --disable-jove works (some of us use vi) |
| 15:20.59 | archivist | didnt know editors other than vi existed |
| 16:24.30 | ``Erik | well |
| 16:24.45 | ``Erik | there's this lispos emulator called emacs that some people think is an editor... |
| 16:24.58 | ``Erik | but if you look at it, it's a full os emulator... that's missing a decent editor |
| 16:24.59 | ``Erik | go figure |
| 16:29.55 | ``Erik | ahhh, here we go... http://www.freebsd.org/cgi/cvsweb.cgi/src/games/fortune/datfiles/Attic/fortunes2.diff?r1=1.53&r2=1.54 |
| 16:29.56 | ``Erik | O:-) |
| 17:10.01 | brlcad | heh, i figured you'd add vi, I just wasn't going to add it :) |
| 17:10.40 | ``Erik | nah, --disable-jove should actually disable jove, not enable some funkyassed fucktard auto mode... |
| 17:11.05 | ``Erik | (looking for any editor at all is damage, beeyotch) |
| 17:11.48 | brlcad | mged requires an editor, it's for providing a means at a sensible default better than 'ed' |
| 17:13.22 | ``Erik | tho some of the slime stuff is kinda neat |
| 23:43.42 | Twingy | meh, 38 days left |
| 23:44.22 | Twingy | why not pick nano as a the default editor :) |
| 23:44.38 | Twingy | it compiles lickity split and is tiny, and an order of magnitude more powerful than ed |
| 23:45.25 | Twingy | reverse search, search and replace, insert file, spell check, justify, cut/paste, etc. |
| 23:46.38 | Twingy | so basically a hair less than vi, but it shows you what the key combos are while you are editing |
| 00:21.04 | ``Erik | erm, ed has reverse search, search&replace, insert file, can do spell check, ... |
| 00:21.15 | Twingy | codin' time |
| 00:21.25 | ``Erik | classic vi is basically ed for 'tards |
| 00:32.45 | brlcad | foodtards |
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| 02:30.50 | Twingy | 3,320 lines |
| 02:43.48 | ``Erik | heh, hit it with sloccount? :) |
| 02:44.12 | Twingy | you can do it |
| 02:44.15 | Twingy | I'm busy coding :) |
| 02:45.54 | Twingy | now that file saving/loading with the new format are done |
| 02:46.08 | Twingy | I can work getting cylinder optimized and lines done |
| 02:46.15 | Twingy | then work on the sim |
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| 14:52.58 | CIA-9 | BRL-CAD: 03jlowenz 07trimnurbs-branch * 10brlcad/src/librt/nurb_refine.c: ws; comment change |
| 14:55.29 | CIA-9 | BRL-CAD: 03jlowenz 07trimnurbs-branch * 10brlcad/src/librt/nurb_util.c: Removed shared pool, went to thread-specific pools. Better solution, but only temporary since bu_parallel doesn't support thread-locals. |
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| 16:51.05 | *** topic/#brlcad is http://brlcad.org/ || BRL-CAD is now Free Software! || Release 7.8.0 is Posted! | |
| 19:19.28 | CIA-9 | BRL-CAD: 03bob1961 * 10brlcad/src/mged/mged.bat: Update for handling an argument (i.e. file.g) |
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| 02:56.05 | CIA-9 | BRL-CAD: 03johnranderson * 10brlcad/src/conv/dxf-g.c: Added support for a couple more entity types |
| 02:56.19 | pra5ad | whoa |
| 02:56.20 | pra5ad | !! |
| 02:58.39 | ``Erik | heh, what, you thought he'd just disappear? |
| 03:04.10 | pra5ad | yes |
| 03:04.13 | pra5ad | yes i did |
| 04:15.57 | pra5ad | erm in 7.8.1 mged shows 7.7.0 in the title/help dialog |
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| 04:24.38 | pra5ad | ack that wasn't good |
| 04:24.46 | pra5ad | raytracing cray.g killed my kernel |
| 04:33.41 | Twingy | I suspect I will move funds within the next 6 business days |
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| 13:08.41 | CIA-9 | BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/BUGS: raytracers report the wrong amount of cumulative time on amd64, benchmark reports wrong numbers unless using -P1 |
| 13:14.48 | brlcad | pra5ad: you didn't build cleanly |
| 13:15.27 | brlcad | 7.8.1 is cvs head, which involved a configure.ac update |
| 13:36.51 | ``Erik | hah, killed the kernel? what a shitty os :D |
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| 22:57.46 | reisio | awe, people quit :p |
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| 23:52.23 | reisio | I don't suppose any of you use BRL-CAD on Gentoo Linux? |
| 00:06.25 | ``Erik | fbsd and osX here, sorry |
| 00:09.51 | reisio | I guess I'll just try building it on my own |
| 00:09.53 | reisio | woo adventure :p |
| 00:12.22 | ``Erik | should work fairly easily... |
| 00:12.32 | ``Erik | just configure, make, make install |
| 00:13.26 | reisio | but what if I make a typo?! oh noes :p |
| 00:13.27 | reisio | heheh |
| 00:13.41 | reisio | ``Erik: what sort of stuff do you use BRL-CAD for? |
| 00:14.05 | ``Erik | um, I test it to make sure I didn't break it, mostly |
| 00:14.06 | ``Erik | heh |
| 00:14.22 | ``Erik | I don't actually USE it, per se... |
| 00:14.32 | ``Erik | tho I am using some of the libraries in other projects, like librt |
| 00:14.43 | ``Erik | (librt being the library, not the project) |
| 00:15.35 | reisio | awe |
| 00:15.47 | reisio | what's the project? |
| 00:16.24 | ``Erik | just some non-visual scientific analysis type shizzlenitz |
| 00:18.48 | reisio | pish, no GUI? :p heheh, k |
| 00:21.15 | ``Erik | nope, no gui at the moment, input file, run program, output file, done |
| 00:21.26 | Twingy | day 14 done |
| 00:21.28 | ``Erik | gui's are for 'tards O:) |
| 00:21.32 | reisio | Twingy: nice |
| 00:21.36 | reisio | ``Erik: :) |
| 00:21.44 | ``Erik | 14? already? damn |
| 00:21.56 | ``Erik | time flies when you, uh, don't care |
| 00:22.00 | ``Erik | :} *duck* |
| 00:22.00 | Twingy | yep |
| 00:22.25 | ``Erik | working from home tomorrow? |
| 00:22.32 | Twingy | yes |
| 00:22.45 | ``Erik | heh, I assume the schematics he was whiteboarding are NOT related to the monitor stands? :) |
| 00:22.53 | Twingy | negative |
| 00:23.12 | reisio | day 14 of what? |
| 00:23.38 | ``Erik | he's training for the annual 'run the fuck from the police, dawg!' event |
| 00:24.01 | ``Erik | back in the 16's? |
| 00:24.12 | Twingy | when I try |
| 00:24.17 | ``Erik | (and are ya gonna do the 5km this year?) |
| 00:24.22 | Twingy | when I don't try 19's |
| 00:24.30 | Twingy | I may |
| 00:25.46 | ``Erik | running the neighborhood? or the track at the school? |
| 00:26.06 | Twingy | neighborhood |
| 00:26.32 | ``Erik | s/s// |
| 00:26.43 | reisio | heh |
| 00:26.53 | ``Erik | wow, ibot is r-tarded |
| 00:27.57 | reisio | hrmmm |
| 00:28.11 | reisio | did they mean to leave index.html up on brl-cad.org ? |
| 00:29.19 | ``Erik | probably |
| 00:29.49 | ``Erik | why? |
| 00:30.16 | reisio | well index.php has the cute PDF filesizes |
| 00:31.24 | ``Erik | eh? o.O |
| 00:31.51 | reisio | compare http://brl-cad.org/index.html and http://brl-cad.org/index.php |
| 00:32.28 | ``Erik | ah... both seem to be updated recently, tho |
| 01:02.10 | *** part/#brlcad reisio (n=reisio@gentoo/user/reisio) | |
| 01:33.28 | brlcad | it's always been like that |
| 01:33.47 | brlcad | i just changed them to caps, and made index at least show pdf |
| 01:34.34 | brlcad | but php has always shown size |
| 01:35.25 | ``Erik | heh, he left, duder |
| 01:40.29 | brlcad | just sayin' |
| 01:52.28 | pra5ad | Twingy |
| 01:52.38 | pra5ad | | | too high |
| 01:52.40 | pra5ad | haha |
| 02:03.55 | pra5ad | hmm maybe not |
| 02:04.02 | pra5ad | if i dont slouch |
| 02:41.13 | Twingy | o.O |
| 02:42.02 | Twingy | raise your chair an inch? |
| 02:42.33 | ``Erik | not "slouching" |
| 02:42.46 | Twingy | you like cockpits eh? |
| 02:43.26 | Twingy | I don't think I will ever do that again though |
| 02:43.30 | ``Erik | yes, but usually we call them "vaginas" |
| 02:43.34 | Twingy | soft steel from now on |
| 02:43.42 | ``Erik | heh, and harden it after? |
| 02:43.50 | Twingy | no hardening, no need |
| 03:37.24 | Twingy | were they deep enough? |
| 03:47.10 | Twingy | next rocket nozzle will be 6.25"L x 1.25"D in 3 sections |
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| 14:00.19 | Twingy | UNIONTOWN, Pennsylvania (AP) -- A man threw a microwave at his girlfriend, then fatally beat her after she refused to heat up sandwiches, police said. |
| 14:20.31 | ``Erik | O.O |
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| 17:56.44 | prasad_werk | where is the *.adrt loading code within the src tree? |
| 18:05.29 | brlcad | whose src tree? |
| 18:06.19 | brlcad | src/adrt/* and src/conv/g-adrt.c in brl-cad's |
| 18:12.02 | prasad_werk | yea |
| 18:12.31 | prasad_werk | im gonna write g-bin |
| 18:12.45 | prasad_werk | g-adrt creates 5 files |
| 18:13.01 | prasad_werk | annoying to read |
| 18:13.08 | prasad_werk | the DIVA format is better |
| 19:23.50 | Twingy | gah this crap is pissing me off |
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| 19:24.01 | prasad_werk | sean |
| 19:24.05 | prasad_werk | http://astronomy.swin.edu.au/~pbourke/dataformats/stl/ |
| 19:24.06 | Twingy | o.O |
| 19:24.32 | brlcad | yep |
| 19:24.33 | prasad_werk | stl wont work for me |
| 19:24.36 | brlcad | paul's site is great |
| 19:24.42 | prasad_werk | its a single mesh per file |
| 19:24.57 | prasad_werk | i want to collate all of them into one |
| 19:25.22 | brlcad | so write out N files and cat them together |
| 19:25.38 | prasad_werk | that's a valid stl file? |
| 19:25.56 | brlcad | beats me, have to read the stl spec |
| 19:26.12 | brlcad | i wouldn't just trust paul on whether you can only have one mesh too |
| 19:26.46 | brlcad | easy enough to read the spec, it really is pretty straightforward |
| 19:27.32 | ``Erik | BEER ME |
| 19:27.33 | brlcad | prasad_werk: alternative would the the ply format |
| 19:27.42 | brlcad | it also has an ascii and binary format |
| 19:28.00 | brlcad | and paul writes about it as well iirc :) |
| 19:28.14 | brlcad | even has some parsing library code, though we have ply export support iirc |
| 19:28.33 | prasad_werk | g-ply? |
| 19:28.46 | brlcad | what else? |
| 19:28.58 | brlcad | http://astronomy.swin.edu.au/~pbourke/dataformats/ply/ |
| 19:30.18 | prasad_werk | there's no g-ply in brlcad.. |
| 19:31.05 | Twingy | pra5ad, so did you decide to use the stands or not? |
| 19:31.06 | prasad_werk | heh |
| 19:31.09 | prasad_werk | A PLY file contains the description of exactly one object. |
| 19:31.13 | prasad_werk | Twingy: im using em |
| 19:31.44 | Twingy | gonna finish them this weekend? |
| 19:31.56 | prasad_werk | prolly next |
| 19:40.29 | Twingy | I need me an 8 core opteron at home |
| 19:40.57 | Twingy | too bad we don't have the budget per user that we had in the 80's |
| 19:43.48 | ``Erik | yeah, darn the cold war for ending too soon o.O *duck* |
| 19:45.22 | ``Erik | twiggly, got that system usage graphing thing sorta kinda lit up for some machines now... o.O |
| 19:45.32 | Twingy | fun |
| 19:46.43 | Twingy | okay, I need some autofoo help |
| 19:46.53 | ``Erik | yuh oh, and the amd64? |
| 19:46.55 | Twingy | got a directory that builds a library and binary |
| 19:47.15 | ``Erik | okie? |
| 19:47.17 | Twingy | that library 'X' contributes to a large library 'L' |
| 19:47.41 | Twingy | the program in the directory where 'X' lives requires linking against 'L' |
| 19:47.50 | ``Erik | uh |
| 19:47.51 | Twingy | *this was not my design* |
| 19:47.57 | ``Erik | given how make works, that's a circular dependancy |
| 19:48.27 | Twingy | basically I need to tell the Makefile to not build the binary until library 'L' is built |
| 19:48.56 | Twingy | to build tihe library in directory 'X' and the rest of the other libs to make 'L' then go back and do the program in 'X' |
| 19:49.07 | ``Erik | heh, is this the conversion project? |
| 19:49.16 | Twingy | no it's M2 |
| 19:49.20 | ``Erik | my first remark would be to re-org |
| 19:49.32 | ``Erik | yeah, the conversion project... from imake/rt to auto/tie |
| 19:49.34 | ``Erik | heh |
| 19:50.12 | Twingy | k, so no solution |
| 19:50.15 | ``Erik | you COULD be horribly hackish and have .PHONY targets as deps that cd $(top_builddir)/path/to/stupid && make libcruft.la |
| 19:50.24 | Twingy | nah |
| 19:50.43 | ``Erik | so if L and libX are build and you build X, it cd's to L to build, which cd's to X/ to build libX |
| 19:50.49 | ``Erik | aight *shrug* |
| 19:51.09 | brlcad | you put the build rules in the makefile above the lower ones |
| 19:51.17 | ``Erik | are they aware they have circular dependancies in their build graph? and do they grok what it means? :) |
| 19:51.44 | brlcad | same as if you only had one makefile or non-recursive make |
| 19:52.39 | ``Erik | (there are solutions, just not pretty ones) |
| 19:58.15 | Twingy | how about a build rule to build at install |
| 20:00.44 | ``Erik | possible, but generally considered bad form... look at the -hook rules in Makefile.in |
| 20:00.55 | Twingy | 1 step ahead of you :) |
| 20:02.52 | ``Erik | damn I need sleep... I'm trying to figure out if anyone would notice if I peed out my office window o.O |
| 20:21.40 | Twingy | you need the Castanza [tm] |
| 20:21.48 | Twingy | under the desk sleeping unit |
| 20:30.44 | Twingy | I think I'm going to take all the two letter directories and make them libXX |
| 20:31.45 | Twingy | binaries and libraries should not live in the same folder |
| 20:32.44 | Twingy | this would be such a nightmare if I were using cvs right now |
| 20:35.50 | Twingy | muuuch better |
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| 20:36.39 | prasad_werk | damn.. |
| 20:36.58 | prasad_werk | glfpstest was accepted already |
| 20:40.16 | brlcad | now just 6 months to form 1 it |
| 20:50.22 | Twingy | I'm going to smack pra5ad if he keeps signing back on irc |
| 21:28.03 | Twingy | that was good, I got a chance to clean up a handful of inconsistencies in the includes |
| 21:36.24 | ``Erik | ghuh |
| 21:38.05 | Twingy | indeed |
| 21:38.19 | Twingy | almost time for my 15th day of running |
| 22:38.22 | Twingy | 2 miles in 15:47 |
| 22:56.57 | ``Erik | ewie |
| 23:32.54 | brlcad | mm. ice age 2 |
| 23:34.39 | brlcad | it's all about the squirrell |
| 23:34.43 | brlcad | ~spell squirrel |
| 23:40.49 | ``Erik | o.O |
| 02:01.17 | Twingy | indeed |
| 02:03.02 | ``Erik | EXTERMINATE! EXTERMINATE! |
| 02:04.41 | Twingy | I should stop working on M2 |
| 02:04.46 | ``Erik | yes, you should |
| 02:04.48 | ``Erik | bitch |
| 02:16.01 | Twingy | fro ho |
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| 05:03.10 | pra5ad | bad poker night |
| 05:03.18 | pra5ad | only $1.70 profit |
| 05:03.22 | Twingy | heh |
| 05:03.32 | pra5ad | should be $7+ |
| 05:03.37 | pra5ad | screwed up a cpl of hands |
| 02:14.39 | Twingy | got up at 10, made it to DE at noon, picked up last bundle of wood, finished laying it at 5pm, rented a floor sander, finished sanding and returning sander at 7pm, went grocery shopping, ate dinner, went running at 9:30 |
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| 02:31.33 | Twingy | http://www.js.cx/~justin/images/livingroom/floor_14.jpg |
| 02:31.54 | pra5ad | artistic |
| 02:32.10 | Twingy | *nod* |
| 02:32.58 | pra5ad | the next demotivator. just add 'home ownership' to the pic |
| 02:33.02 | pra5ad | ;) j/k |
| 02:33.31 | Twingy | I love it! |
| 02:40.20 | pra5ad | the picnic area on post is pretty nice |
| 02:40.22 | pra5ad | =) |
| 02:40.33 | pra5ad | it works(tm) |
| 02:43.48 | Twingy | hrm? |
| 02:44.14 | Twingy | I got that cordless phone at work |
| 02:44.33 | Twingy | I should have all my calls forwarded to it so I can just hang out at the pavillion |
| 02:44.37 | Twingy | with my lawn chair |
| 02:45.27 | Twingy | I'll have to pick one up tomorrow |
| 02:45.35 | Twingy | I need a garbage can for the garage as well |
| 02:48.01 | pra5ad | u need to move ur work area to the pavillion |
| 02:48.49 | Twingy | that is the best idea you've ever given me |
| 03:46.42 | ``Erik | http://www.thesmokinggun.com/archive/0411061foot1.html *boggle* |
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| 16:18.07 | pra5ad | http://www.keiichianimeforever.com/anime/onlineanime/index.html |
| 16:18.10 | pra5ad | ^_^ |
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| 17:54.28 | pra5ad | wow it's hot |
| 17:54.34 | pra5ad | 100F outside or what |
| 17:56.05 | pra5ad | 94% humidity |
| 17:59.36 | archivist | your not in england then |
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| 02:04.12 | PKMOBILE | guess what kermit is up to! |
| 02:17.55 | pra5ad | tribes? |
| 04:15.55 | Twingy | what a damn exhausting weekend |
| 05:49.09 | Twingy | 14 hours of run time, will have to let it run over night |
| 12:14.35 | ``Erik | the bitch didn't tell us |
| 13:21.29 | brlcad | o.O |
| 17:31.07 | CIA-9 | BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/AUTHORS: special thanks to doug howard for his work during the very beginning stages of archer development. |
| 17:34.32 | CIA-9 | BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/AUTHORS: |
| 17:34.32 | CIA-9 | BRL-CAD: special thanks to Mark Butkiewicz of SURVICE for his considerable input |
| 17:34.32 | CIA-9 | BRL-CAD: regarding the look and feel of archer as well as prioritizing what features to |
| 17:34.32 | CIA-9 | BRL-CAD: add in the allotted time. he has also remained actively involved in the windows |
| 17:34.32 | CIA-9 | BRL-CAD: port effort as well as general collaboration, support, and suggestions for the |
| 17:34.35 | CIA-9 | BRL-CAD: package as a whole. |
| 17:42.52 | ``Erik | oh my, archer is being snarfed into brlcad, or are we supporting it all third party, yo? |
| 17:48.26 | brlcad | archer was already snarfed in a couple months ago |
| 17:48.35 | brlcad | it's fully contributed |
| 17:48.45 | brlcad | i.e. not 3rd party |
| 18:36.35 | ``Erik | whoa |
| 19:28.39 | archivist | no change there then |
| 19:30.06 | brlcad | pretty much |
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| 03:02.53 | Twingy | 2nd coat of polyurethane is dry |
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| 14:32.37 | CIA-9 | BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/TODO: test for USE_FORKED_THREADS in configure |
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| 17:00.29 | digitalfredy | #freenode |
| 17:00.32 | digitalfredy | epa |
| 17:00.38 | digitalfredy | sorry |
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| 05:10.48 | digitalfredy | hello docelic DTRemenak pra5ad guu ibot @brlcad @ChanServ CIA-9 archivist Twingy ``Erik |
| 05:12.08 | digitalfredy | i read in the cvs / doc to like pass your doc to docbook and y like helps in this work |
| 05:12.34 | Twingy | talk to brlcad/leaner when he is on |
| 05:14.02 | digitalfredy | Twingy: ok tanks |
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| 06:32.16 | brlcad | digitalfredy: glad to hear it, love to talk to you more about it in a few hours |
| 07:11.53 | digitalfredy | brlcad: ping |
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| 20:03.11 | digitalfredy | brlcad: ping |
| 20:03.41 | brlcad | pong |
| 20:04.13 | brlcad | so you're interested in converting the docs to docbook format.. |
| 20:04.30 | brlcad | how familiar are you with docbook? |
| 20:04.35 | digitalfredy | brlcad: i like help whit the doc in |
| 20:04.38 | digitalfredy | yes |
| 20:05.14 | digitalfredy | brlcad: is the doc in pdf ? |
| 20:05.28 | brlcad | depends which documentation you're referring to |
| 20:05.34 | brlcad | there's a lot of it, in various formats |
| 20:05.53 | digitalfredy | i read the IDEAS in the cvs/doc |
| 20:05.54 | brlcad | most of the documents on the website are available in pdf and msword format |
| 20:06.43 | digitalfredy | ok say me who is the most important for begin |
| 20:06.50 | brlcad | the documentation in /doc is a mix of text, troff/nroff, manpages, etc |
| 20:07.44 | brlcad | the most important "first" one is probably the "Overview of BRL-CAD" on the website, http://brlcad.org |
| 20:08.12 | brlcad | 1, 2, and 3 there are by far the most frequently read |
| 20:08.38 | brlcad | 1 is available in html, doc, pdf |
| 20:08.56 | digitalfredy | brlcad: i can made all in one book |
| 20:09.02 | brlcad | 2 and 3 are available as pdf and doc |
| 20:10.04 | brlcad | digitalfredy: yeah, how it's all organized is a quesion in itself |
| 20:10.24 | digitalfredy | you can send me the .doc's to my mail? |
| 20:10.25 | brlcad | one massive "book", multiple books, articles, etc |
| 20:14.14 | digitalfredy | brlcad: send me the .doc's my mail is digitalfredy@debiancolombia.org |
| 20:18.17 | brlcad | digitalfredy: how about you start with just the overview one first and we see how well that works out |
| 20:19.32 | digitalfredy | brlcad: ok i start with overview |
| 20:20.23 | brlcad | are you familiar with tldp? |
| 20:20.50 | brlcad | they have several docbook processing tools of interest, as does the gforge project |
| 20:20.51 | digitalfredy | the linux documentation proyect |
| 20:20.58 | brlcad | yes |
| 20:21.33 | digitalfredy | and docbook is used for the linux kernel documentation |
| 20:21.34 | brlcad | the gforge project has tools in their cvs that automates the processing of docbook quite nicely |
| 20:23.17 | brlcad | yeah, docbook is great for technical docs -- just hard for editors expecting a decent editor :) |
| 20:23.17 | digitalfredy | can you send me a reference of any document in particular? |
| 20:23.49 | brlcad | gforge would be the first I suggest looking at, their entire documentation is docbook |
| 20:24.38 | brlcad | http://gforge.org/plugins/scmcvs/cvsweb.php/gforge/docs/docbook/?cvsroot=gforge |
| 20:25.56 | brlcad | they did theirs as one book, with the major sections as chapters if I remember |
| 20:26.15 | brlcad | i'm slightly more inclined to produce multiple books |
| 20:26.55 | brlcad | but even one book would work just fine |
| 20:27.48 | digitalfredy | brlcad: i think in one book for becouse is best for example for made a package brlcad-doc |
| 20:31.03 | digitalfredy | brlcad: i can to be slow becouse not speak englis veri well, if you not understand me, say |
| 20:32.38 | brlcad | te entiendo perfectamente ;) |
| 20:33.09 | brlcad | por supuesto ;) |
| 20:33.09 | digitalfredy | y yo matandome |
| 20:33.13 | brlcad | jeje |
| 20:33.20 | digitalfredy | bueno esto hace mejor las cosas |
| 20:33.55 | digitalfredy | brlcad: tengo que hacer una diligencia pero regreso en un rato |
| 20:33.56 | brlcad | aunque hago errores todo el tiempo, lo hablo mucho mejor que lo escribo |
| 20:34.14 | brlcad | esta bien |
| 20:34.32 | digitalfredy | brlcad: en que pais estas? usa? |
| 20:34.44 | brlcad | si |
| 20:35.18 | brlcad | son las 4 y media |
| 20:35.51 | digitalfredy | solo tenemos corrida una hora yo tengo las 3:40 |
| 20:36.22 | brlcad | me imaginé cuando te fuiste anoche |
| 20:36.48 | brlcad | ta bien |
| 20:36.49 | digitalfredy | bye |
| 20:36.52 | brlcad | ciao |
| 20:36.57 | digitalfredy | chao |
| 20:37.01 | *** part/#brlcad digitalfredy (n=digitalf@200.119.94.158) | |
| 22:28.39 | ``Erik | ummm, soy un perdedor, or something |
| 22:28.40 | ``Erik | :D |
| 22:28.57 | ``Erik | <-- learned all his spanish from taco bell and beck songs |
| 00:06.24 | *** join/#brlcad PrezKennedy (n=Apathy@c-68-33-243-45.hsd1.md.comcast.net) | |
| 00:52.50 | PrezKennedy | so i heard this rumor about putting up a tribes server or something |
| 00:53.22 | PrezKennedy | its craziness! |
| 00:53.32 | brlcad | i've said it like a dozen times |
| 00:54.10 | PrezKennedy | eh then he'll never stop playing |
| 00:54.18 | PrezKennedy | he'll stop showing up for work |
| 00:54.30 | brlcad | like he'll ever stop anyways |
| 00:54.53 | PrezKennedy | he only stops tribes to play generals or red alert |
| 00:55.03 | PrezKennedy | and a lot of the time he just leaves it running |
| 01:23.25 | PrezKennedy | well setting up a tribes 2 dedicated server would be considerably easier if i still had linux installed |
| 01:23.30 | PrezKennedy | but that was 2 hard drives ago |
| 01:54.28 | Twingy | I want a toughbook |
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| 12:31.10 | CIA-9 | BRL-CAD: 03jlowenz 07trimnurbs-branch * 10brlcad/include/nurb.h: Added declaration for trim-to-bezier curve conversion routine, and updated uv in trim test function to accept a list of trims instead of a surface (since the trims are preprocessed. |
| 12:34.17 | CIA-9 | BRL-CAD: 03jlowenz 07trimnurbs-branch * 10brlcad/src/librt/g_nurb.c: added support for preprocessing trims into beziers. |
| 13:09.57 | CIA-9 | BRL-CAD: 03jlowenz 07trimnurbs-branch * 10brlcad/src/librt/nurb_bezier.c: support for preprocessing non-bezier trims to bezier trims |
| 13:12.15 | CIA-9 | BRL-CAD: 03jlowenz 07trimnurbs-branch * 10brlcad/src/librt/nurb_knot.c: logging updates |
| 13:29.54 | CIA-9 | BRL-CAD: 03jlowenz 07trimnurbs-branch * 10brlcad/src/librt/nurb_trim.c: modified rt_nurb_uv_trimmed to support a list of trims instead of a surface (to support the preprocessing) |
| 14:01.34 | *** join/#brlcad Alon (n=c0738410@bz.bzflag.bz) | |
| 14:01.42 | Alon | hi |
| 14:02.23 | Alon | I'm a ver very very newbie to brl-cad.. where can I find getting started docs? I am using linux and have got it instaalled and somewhat working |
| 14:10.17 | ``Erik | http://www.yikers.com/video_dick_cheney_takes_out_the_easter_bunny.html |
| 14:26.09 | brlcad | <PROTECTED> |
| 14:31.05 | brlcad | documents 1 2 3 |
| 15:09.35 | brlcad | they're also not provided during the install, they should be |
| 15:15.48 | CIA-9 | BRL-CAD: 03lbutler * 10brlcad/regress/ (Makefile.am slave_build.sh): |
| 15:15.48 | CIA-9 | BRL-CAD: Make sure directory has been created (slave_build.sh) or wait for it. |
| 15:15.48 | CIA-9 | BRL-CAD: Indicate that the regression test is done, but not whether it was successful or not. (Makefile.am) |
| 15:20.28 | CIA-9 | BRL-CAD: 03lbutler * 10brlcad/regress/ (9 files): |
| 15:20.28 | CIA-9 | BRL-CAD: Updates to make it easier to check the status of a regression test. Each test |
| 15:20.28 | CIA-9 | BRL-CAD: now reports its notion of whether it succeeded or failed. |
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| 21:45.41 | CIA-9 | BRL-CAD: 03lbutler * 10brlcad/regress/ (8 files): Fixed various sh/csh syntax errrors. |
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| 11:39.55 | Maloeran | In case you happen to see this question, pra5ad, what is your preference between Verilog and vhdl, if you don't mind me asking? After learning the basics of both, I'm still unsure which way to go |
| 12:02.59 | Maloeran | I have the vague dream of implementing raytracing hardware, a fpga. I really like the level of parallelism found at the hardware design level, it's both challenging and has nice potential for high performance |
| 12:11.17 | archivist | hmm opensource 3D hardware graphics engine |
| 12:12.30 | Maloeran | Open-source, possibly... Are you part of the Brl-Cad team? If yes, would you mind me asking what your first name is? |
| 12:12.48 | Maloeran | Just to associate the correct nicknames to the people I know |
| 12:14.12 | archivist | Im external in UK |
| 12:14.37 | archivist | Dave Caroline |
| 12:15.21 | Maloeran | Right, we haven't met :) |
| 12:21.17 | archivist | unless you were at Dayton hamfest a few years ago |
| 12:52.24 | ``Erik | wasn't there a group trying to make an "open source" video card (regular ogl&fb style) ... |
| 12:56.51 | archivist | I seem to remember something but the I suppose nvidia et al keep producing faster stuff overtaking opensource efforts |
| 12:59.14 | pra5ad | no preference here |
| 13:03.15 | pra5ad | heh the only thing i can say from my experience is that abel is dead |
| 13:03.17 | pra5ad | :) |
| 13:04.58 | Maloeran | That couldn't possibly work too well, ``Erik, I doubt the funding matches Nvidia's |
| 13:05.22 | Maloeran | On the other hand, if the raytracing techniques are released under a license that forbids commercial use... :) |
| 13:06.39 | archivist | is there ray tracing in the commercials that could be used |
| 13:07.10 | Maloeran | I have one written right here, faster than anything else |
| 13:09.53 | Maloeran | So pra5ad, you use both equally? Is each better for some tasks? |
| 13:13.48 | ``Erik | hey, I didn't say it was a good idea or that it had a chance, just that something like that existed at some point :) (and it's goal wasn't to compete with nvidia, more like commoditizing the low/mid end of the market so drivers for non-ms os's wouldn't suck) |
| 13:14.48 | archivist | using fpga for the job enables future proofing as well |
| 13:15.39 | ``Erik | eh? |
| 13:16.14 | ``Erik | the fp in fpga means it can be updated in the future, as long as the new design doesn't use more cells than the fpga has... |
| 13:16.39 | ``Erik | now an asic would mean new masks, new runs, and all the old ic's are garbage... |
| 13:17.06 | ``Erik | one of these days, I'm gonna dust off the fpga experimentors board sitting in my cabinet |
| 13:17.29 | archivist | fpga things usually cost to much for commodity cards though |
| 13:18.00 | ``Erik | depends on the price of the card and size of the run |
| 13:18.22 | ``Erik | a lot of commodity small run equipment uses fpga's cuz it's cheaper than asic... |
| 18:29.25 | *** join/#brlcad digitalfredy (n=digitalf@200.119.94.77) | |
| 18:30.27 | digitalfredy | brlcad: overview is aprox 80% in docbook xml :) |
| 18:32.05 | digitalfredy | bye i have to go |
| 18:32.25 | *** part/#brlcad digitalfredy (n=digitalf@200.119.94.77) | |
| 18:36.41 | brlcad | sweet |
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| 01:15.51 | Twingy | running 2 miles in the cold rain, not fun |
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| 02:49.52 | ``Erik | ls |
| 02:49.54 | ``Erik | woops |
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| 17:19.25 | CIA-9 | BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/NEWS: need to quantify exactly what sort of dxf-g enhancements john added, but it's a something so as not to forget |
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| 00:05.31 | pra5ad | heh presentation was most excellent |
| 00:05.46 | Twingy | did you score any chicks? |
| 00:05.54 | pra5ad | all married |
| 00:06.03 | Twingy | I'd say it was only mediocre then |
| 00:06.34 | pra5ad | my grade isnt a function of the # of chicks i score with |
| 00:06.41 | pra5ad | so id say it was excellent |
| 00:06.43 | Twingy | you're in the wrong school then |
| 00:06.57 | pra5ad | yea, i should be at NJIT |
| 00:06.57 | Twingy | what do you think erik? |
| 00:07.04 | Twingy | no no, NJIT it horrible |
| 00:07.08 | pra5ad | duh |
| 00:07.09 | Twingy | they have no womenz |
| 00:07.21 | Twingy | the 12% women they DO have are in architecture |
| 00:07.32 | Twingy | and like 0.1% in comp sci/math/physics |
| 00:07.44 | pra5ad | when u find the school that has hot women in their cs program, let me know |
| 00:07.59 | Twingy | depends on how long it takes me to start one |
| 00:08.28 | Twingy | mmm, pizza is almost done |
| 00:08.42 | Twingy | then a blissful night of coding |
| 00:08.59 | pra5ad | hmm pretty much done with this semester |
| 00:09.02 | pra5ad | so i should be coding too |
| 00:09.29 | Twingy | whatcha gonna write |
| 00:09.38 | pra5ad | website |
| 00:09.44 | Twingy | *yawn* |
| 00:09.59 | pra5ad | in java, that uses jini |
| 00:10.03 | pra5ad | hah! |
| 00:12.15 | Twingy | bbl, pizza |
| 00:25.05 | ``Erik | there were a couple hot chicks in my cs program :/ |
| 00:25.11 | ``Erik | also; married != un-scorable. |
| 00:26.24 | ``Erik | y'know, apples mach manpages ... the very very very few that exist suck. |
| 00:26.56 | ``Erik | at least on fbsd, there was awesome docs and on leenewx, the proc fs was well documented. |
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| 19:29.24 | sick-digitalfred | brlcad: ping |
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| 02:40.17 | digitalfredy | brlcad: ping |
| 03:14.20 | digitalfredy | brlcad: ping |
| 04:18.06 | ``Erik | heh |
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| 05:35.30 | digitalfredy | brlcad: ping |
| 05:42.08 | digitalfredy | brlcad: writeme a mail digitalfredy [at] debiancolombia.org |
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| 10:15.11 | MaDrense | hi ppl |
| 10:15.18 | MaDrense | just download the windows version .. |
| 10:15.39 | MaDrense | but in mged when i open one of the samples i get nothing in the GUI ? |
| 10:31.11 | MaDrense | hello ? |
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| 15:00.12 | CIA-9 | BRL-CAD: 03d_rossberg * 10brlcad/src/libwdb/pipe.c: wdb_export frees the pipe structure; consequently, do not touch it afterwards |
| 15:10.08 | CIA-9 | BRL-CAD: 03d_rossberg * 10brlcad/src/librt/g_bot_include.c: crash with MSVC 6.0 release build because of an access behind bot->bot_facearray boundaries |
| 15:13.19 | CIA-9 | BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/TODO: Optional compile-time support for using GMP or CLN for arbitrary precision arithmetic |
| 15:14.27 | brlcad | d_rossberg: for the g_bot_include bug -- what was crashing? |
| 15:14.33 | brlcad | and you've been busy.. excellent ;) |
| 15:16.24 | brlcad | i'm asking as i was going to update the NEWS file with the description of how that bug is exposed to users (unless you want to) |
| 15:18.12 | CIA-9 | BRL-CAD: 03d_rossberg * 10brlcad/NEWS: fixed crash in release build |
| 15:19.39 | d_rossberg | brlcad: the bug was in rt_bot_piece_shot_* i.e. it's a potential crash for every bot raytrace |
| 15:22.51 | CIA-9 | BRL-CAD: 03d_rossberg * 10brlcad/NEWS: forgot to add my name |
| 15:24.23 | brlcad | d_rossberg: i gathered as much, did you actually experience a crash too? |
| 15:28.35 | d_rossberg | yes, i got crashes with the libraries i'm using for my viewer |
| 15:29.34 | d_rossberg | debugging the relese build (with line numbers as the only debug information) led me to g_bot_include |
| 15:31.13 | CIA-9 | BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/NEWS: it's a stack, most recent go on top |
| 15:32.14 | brlcad | nice catch |
| 15:35.30 | d_rossberg | it looks like i was the first one who uses mk_pipe |
| 15:36.26 | d_rossberg | consequently, nobody will notice the changes in libwdb |
| 15:55.58 | CIA-9 | BRL-CAD: 03d_rossberg * 10brlcad/NEWS: Rossberg with utf-8 character |
| 16:55.36 | brlcad | or maybe not, but something odd for sure |
| 16:57.26 | brlcad | ah, looks like it is right, I'm just set on ISO-8859-1 |
| 17:04.42 | ``Erik | heh, sean, if you had unsaved data on your desktop, you don't have it anymore :) o.O |
| 17:43.31 | ``Erik | they're gonna fuck with building power over the weekend (I believe leaving it off most of it), so all the 'puters are supposed to be unplugged o.O |
| 17:43.41 | ``Erik | hope you don't got too many perishables in the fridges |
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| 18:24.22 | Maloeran | IRC services getting a segfault? Ah! :} |
| 18:40.30 | ``Erik | whuddya expect, man, it's freenode... :) |
| 20:44.25 | ``Erik | det |
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| 22:45.21 | CIA-9 | BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/TODO: working on clone/tracker; EF importer plugin is on the asap list; mingw is delayed; added toy jeep; unpush idea for later. |
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| 03:01.05 | CIA-9 | BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/db/ (toyjeep.asc Makefile.am): add an toy barbie (tm) jeep (tm) modeled in 2005 over the course of a day by a group of students attending a BRL-CAD (tm) training course at SURVICE |
| 03:02.50 | CIA-9 | BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/conv/asc2g.c: default units to millimeters instead of aborting if the units specified are unknown |
| 03:05.12 | CIA-9 | BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/conv/g2asc.c: if the _GLOBAL object has attributes set other than units and title, write them out. also make sure the units are not (null) before writing them out. |
| 03:10.39 | CIA-9 | BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/gtools/g_diff.c: let the user know if there are no differences and be more specific on difference when external representations differ. |
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| 03:20.29 | CIA-9 | BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/mged/ged.c: fix the mged logging so that it actually works now and consistently writes events. clean up the whitespace while refactoring the closure of a db to f_closedb() consistently. |
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| 06:55.42 | pra5ad | women.. |
| 06:55.50 | pra5ad | why cant they make up their minds.. |
| 06:55.54 | pra5ad | sigh |
| 20:22.17 | CIA-9 | BRL-CAD: 03johnranderson * 10brlcad/src/conv/ (dxf-g.c dxf-g.1): |
| 20:22.17 | CIA-9 | BRL-CAD: Added support for ELLIPSE entities, added a bit more logging, updated |
| 20:22.18 | CIA-9 | BRL-CAD: man page. |
| 02:17.43 | CIA-9 | BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/librt/wdb_obj.c: comments, remove dead new proc creation code (there's a func for that creating a wdbp function object) |
| 02:19.36 | CIA-9 | BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/conv/g2asc.1: |
| 02:19.36 | CIA-9 | BRL-CAD: update the manpage with more up-to-date information and details. mention that |
| 02:19.36 | CIA-9 | BRL-CAD: current format is a tcl script, that the conversion to ascii isn't strictly |
| 02:19.36 | CIA-9 | BRL-CAD: necessary any longer since v5 format is portable, and that the ascii format |
| 02:19.36 | CIA-9 | BRL-CAD: should not be used by external codes. |
| 02:20.39 | CIA-9 | BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/conv/dbupgrade.1: initial manual page for the dbupgrade command, basic usage info |
| 02:22.31 | CIA-9 | BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/conv/asc2g.c: add support for carriage returns so old ascii files copied from windows parse correctly. use a little less emphatic emphasis on error (!!!) |
| 02:22.55 | CIA-9 | BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/conv/dbupgrade.c: ws, indent |
| 02:23.23 | CIA-9 | BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/conv/Makefile.am: add new dbupgrade.1 manpage |
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| 05:02.56 | digitalfredy | brlcad: hello |
| 06:26.49 | digitalfredy | brlcad: hello, i like to you see the docbook xml work for overview |
| 06:27.18 | *** part/#brlcad digitalfredy (n=digitalf@200.119.94.156) | |
| 08:25.28 | brlcad | ack |
| 08:25.49 | brlcad | he keeps picks horribly inconsistent times :) |
| 08:29.42 | CIA-9 | BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/NEWS: |
| 08:29.42 | CIA-9 | BRL-CAD: fixed g2asc export of null units bug. there was a situation where the current |
| 08:29.42 | CIA-9 | BRL-CAD: units could not be determined and a (null) was export to the ascii file. this |
| 08:29.42 | CIA-9 | BRL-CAD: would halt an asc2g. if the units cannot be determined, they are not output |
| 08:29.42 | CIA-9 | BRL-CAD: (i.e. no (null)) now. |
| 08:31.39 | CIA-9 | BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/NEWS: |
| 08:31.39 | CIA-9 | BRL-CAD: g2asc now saves additional _GLOBAL attribute values. previously, only the units |
| 08:31.39 | CIA-9 | BRL-CAD: and title were exported so that if a user had manually added additional |
| 08:31.39 | CIA-9 | BRL-CAD: attributes they were not being saved, now they are saved as attr commands in the |
| 08:31.39 | CIA-9 | BRL-CAD: ascii format. (a situation where this was important was where a 'disclaimer' |
| 08:31.42 | CIA-9 | BRL-CAD: and 'description' attribute were added in addition to the title. |
| 08:33.46 | CIA-9 | BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/NEWS: |
| 08:33.46 | CIA-9 | BRL-CAD: g_diff reports more detail whether differences exist. if the external forms are |
| 08:33.46 | CIA-9 | BRL-CAD: being compared, it will report whether the lengths differ or the contents |
| 08:33.46 | CIA-9 | BRL-CAD: (previously was an unknown either/or difference). also g_diff will summarize |
| 08:33.46 | CIA-9 | BRL-CAD: and actually say that it found no differences instead of just ending a statement |
| 08:33.48 | CIA-9 | BRL-CAD: like there is something more like the following: |
| 08:36.08 | CIA-9 | BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/NEWS: |
| 08:36.08 | CIA-9 | BRL-CAD: fixed g_diff attribute comparison issue. when doing a g_diff, attributes were |
| 08:36.09 | CIA-9 | BRL-CAD: not being compared in order if the db command fails to tclify the exported |
| 08:36.09 | CIA-9 | BRL-CAD: version resulting in a binary 'these objects seem to differ' when they did not. |
| 08:36.09 | CIA-9 | BRL-CAD: the tclification was improved so it can perform a proper ordered attribute |
| 08:36.11 | CIA-9 | BRL-CAD: comparison under more cases. |
| 08:38.05 | CIA-9 | BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/NEWS: (log message trimmed) |
| 08:38.05 | CIA-9 | BRL-CAD: updated the g2asc manual page with format details. the manpage still talked |
| 08:38.05 | CIA-9 | BRL-CAD: about it being necessary for platform independent conversions, language and |
| 08:38.05 | CIA-9 | BRL-CAD: details were updated to note that this is no longer the case (that the binary |
| 08:38.05 | CIA-9 | BRL-CAD: will work just fine). also mentions that binary and ascii are open specs, |
| 08:38.08 | CIA-9 | BRL-CAD: though ascii is subject to deprecation change without notice whereas the binary |
| 08:38.10 | CIA-9 | BRL-CAD: is not. also that the ascii should not be relied upon by external developers but |
| 08:38.30 | CIA-9 | BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/NEWS: added dbupgrade manual page. one didn't exist |
| 08:41.05 | CIA-9 | BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/NEWS: |
| 08:41.05 | CIA-9 | BRL-CAD: fixed asc2g bug reading files with carriage returns. if you attempted to run |
| 08:41.05 | CIA-9 | BRL-CAD: asc2g on a .asc file that came directly from the windows platform and had |
| 08:41.05 | CIA-9 | BRL-CAD: embedded carriage returns ('\r'), it would incorrectly parse the v4 I units |
| 08:41.05 | CIA-9 | BRL-CAD: version string dumping out a wierd undecipherable overlapping error (printing |
| 08:41.07 | CIA-9 | BRL-CAD: the carriage return), now it handles them correctly. |
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| 13:49.49 | ``Erik | hm |
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| 14:50.46 | CIA-9 | BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/NEWS: |
| 14:50.46 | CIA-9 | BRL-CAD: john continues on his dxf-g rampage with manpage enhancements and additional |
| 14:50.46 | CIA-9 | BRL-CAD: support to dxf-g for ELLIPSE entities. earlier he added support for LWPOLYLINE, |
| 14:50.46 | CIA-9 | BRL-CAD: MTEXT, LEADER, ATTRIB, SOLID, and ATTDEF entity states -- all grouped into one |
| 14:50.46 | CIA-9 | BRL-CAD: news entry for dxf-g enhancements. |
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| 16:52.53 | digitalfredy | brlcad: ping |
| 16:53.06 | *** part/#brlcad digitalfredy (n=digitalf@200.119.94.206) | |
| 16:56.27 | ``Erik | heh |
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| 17:05.37 | CIA-9 | BRL-CAD: 03bob1961 * 10brlcad/src/tclscripts/archer/GeometryEditFrame.tcl: Minor tweek to anchor the edit panel north |
| 17:07.09 | CIA-9 | BRL-CAD: 03bob1961 * 10brlcad/src/tclscripts/archer/CombEditFrame.tcl: Minor tweek to anchor the edit panel north |
| 17:11.37 | CIA-9 | BRL-CAD: 03bob1961 * 10brlcad/src/tclscripts/archer/Archer.tcl: Temporarily (i.e. until this functionality is available) removing the "Compact" menu item when viewing BRL-CAD geometry. Minor mods to reflect change in the tree widget. |
| 17:18.27 | CIA-9 | BRL-CAD: 03bob1961 * 10brlcad/src/tclscripts/swidgets/scripts/tree.itk: Check-in for Doug Howard. Mods to support multi-select and cut-n-paste. |
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| 17:28.10 | CIA-9 | BRL-CAD: 03bob1961 * 10brlcad/src/tclscripts/archer/images/Themes/ (9 files in 3 dirs): Add images to support future functionality (i.e. multi-select and cut-n-paste) |
| 17:30.04 | brlcad | digitalfredy: pong! |
| 17:30.09 | brlcad | been missing you all week |
| 17:30.12 | digitalfredy | hey |
| 17:30.32 | digitalfredy | i made the xml for overview |
| 17:30.43 | digitalfredy | are only one problem |
| 17:31.25 | digitalfredy | brlcad: |
| 17:31.27 | brlcad | excellent |
| 17:31.33 | digitalfredy | the problem is in the |
| 17:31.57 | digitalfredy | hoja de estilo but is not a big problem, fine |
| 17:32.28 | digitalfredy | brlcad: who is your mail for send you the xml and html |
| 17:33.32 | digitalfredy | and i was missing becouse i was sick |
| 17:33.41 | brlcad | te lo envie en un mensaje privado, lo tienes? |
| 17:34.35 | digitalfredy | brlcad: si |
| 17:35.07 | digitalfredy | brlcad: i made one book |
| 17:35.26 | digitalfredy | but i think to is best made a only one big book |
| 17:35.37 | brlcad | and the reasoning for that? :) |
| 17:36.26 | digitalfredy | wait a moment and send you a link for review a structure in other book as example |
| 17:38.14 | digitalfredy | brlcad: see http://www.sagehill.net/docbookxsl/index.html |
| 17:38.30 | brlcad | i was reading up last week on some work done with xinclude to get modular docbook files |
| 17:38.37 | digitalfredy | the preface is the overview |
| 17:38.48 | digitalfredy | and every part is a book |
| 17:38.56 | digitalfredy | and all is a big book |
| 17:39.41 | brlcad | ahh, that's better.. the "main book" is really a set of books yes? |
| 17:39.55 | brlcad | with a book for each 'part' of the set |
| 17:40.12 | digitalfredy | yes |
| 17:40.19 | digitalfredy | yes |
| 17:40.28 | brlcad | that approach sounds reasonable |
| 17:40.39 | brlcad | have you worked at all with Xinclude? |
| 17:40.44 | brlcad | (i haven't) |
| 17:41.09 | brlcad | speaking of which is referenced in that book: http://www.sagehill.net/docbookxsl/ModularDoc.html |
| 17:41.19 | digitalfredy | brlcad: in spanis, can understand |
| 17:41.56 | brlcad | pregunte si has usado Xinclude? (yo no..) |
| 17:42.14 | digitalfredy | no pero puedo revisarlo |
| 17:42.39 | brlcad | lo refiere en aquel libro aquí: http://www.sagehill.net/docbookxsl/ModularDoc.html |
| 17:45.12 | brlcad | eso te deja separar libros en secciones y usar los en diferente lugares manteniendo un archivo xml valido |
| 17:45.54 | brlcad | i'm just not sure whether it's really worth it or not.. i'll ask some of my other xml expert friends to see what they know ;) |
| 17:46.14 | digitalfredy | haaa si creo que se |
| 17:46.52 | digitalfredy | para crear por ejemplo un archivo con cada parte y luego en otro hacer el include de todos los archivos? |
| 17:55.32 | brlcad | si, pero sin usar entity references |
| 17:55.49 | brlcad | ahh.. xsltproc --xinclude.. excellent |
| 17:56.01 | brlcad | so that should be the way to go.. |
| 17:59.39 | digitalfredy | brlcad: cant understand well |
| 17:59.58 | digitalfredy | brlcad: esta es el camino a seguir o algo asi? |
| 18:05.57 | brlcad | si! |
| 18:06.10 | brlcad | sounds perfecto |
| 18:06.51 | digitalfredy | begin the big book? |
| 18:08.30 | brlcad | mirando lo que me enviaste.. un momento |
| 18:10.17 | brlcad | wow |
| 18:11.52 | brlcad | digitalfredy: me parece asombroso! |
| 18:11.59 | digitalfredy | brlcad: rewrite the overview like preface |
| 18:12.01 | brlcad | that looks great, really great |
| 18:12.02 | digitalfredy | yes? |
| 18:12.07 | digitalfredy | emacs |
| 18:12.11 | brlcad | :) |
| 18:12.14 | digitalfredy | i love emacs |
| 18:12.26 | brlcad | hehe |
| 18:12.36 | digitalfredy | fine |
| 18:12.54 | brlcad | seriously, that is like exactly what I was hoping for |
| 18:14.26 | brlcad | te puedo mandar los otros documentos grandes si quieres ya |
| 18:14.36 | digitalfredy | yes |
| 18:16.03 | digitalfredy | brlcad: who is the licence for the doc? |
| 18:16.13 | digitalfredy | for put it in the book |
| 18:16.48 | brlcad | all the new documentation is dual-licensed |
| 18:19.19 | brlcad | y eso quiere decir que el documentation esta cubrido por el GFDL o si quieren el GPL |
| 18:19.55 | brlcad | From BRL-CAD's COPYING file in CVS: |
| 18:19.59 | brlcad | Unless otherwise denoted, all of BRL-CAD's documentation is made |
| 18:19.59 | brlcad | available under the terms of the GNU Free Documentation License (GFDL) |
| 18:19.59 | brlcad | or, at your option, under the terms of the GNU General Public License |
| 18:19.59 | brlcad | (GPL) as published by the Free Software Foundation. Several older |
| 18:19.59 | brlcad | documents (e.g. published by the U.S. Government prior to being |
| 18:20.02 | brlcad | released as Open Source) are in the public domain. |
| 18:20.28 | brlcad | el ultimo frase se puede eliminar para eso |
| 18:23.18 | digitalfredy | ok |
| 18:25.14 | digitalfredy | ``Erik: fine |
| 18:25.20 | digitalfredy | lesson 1 |
| 18:25.32 | digitalfredy | hello in spanish is hola |
| 18:25.39 | brlcad | the copyright, different from the license should probably be something to the effect of: |
| 18:25.43 | brlcad | <PROTECTED> |
| 18:25.45 | brlcad | <PROTECTED> |
| 18:25.46 | ``Erik | heh, I know that much :) |
| 18:25.54 | brlcad | and tequila |
| 18:25.58 | brlcad | means.. |
| 18:25.59 | brlcad | tequila |
| 18:26.00 | ``Erik | mmm tequila |
| 18:26.17 | ``Erik | mew-ee bway-no |
| 18:26.18 | ``Erik | I mean, uh |
| 18:26.19 | ``Erik | O:-) |
| 18:26.29 | digitalfredy | aguardiente :) |
| 18:26.40 | brlcad | jej |
| 18:28.50 | digitalfredy | brlcad: All Rights Reserved? |
| 18:29.14 | ``Erik | and post tequila, http://www.killsometime.com/pictures/Picture.asp?ID=246 |
| 18:33.21 | brlcad | digitalfredy: it's a standard disclaimer you find along with just about any english copyright -- authorship rights are explicitly desired instead of giving it away without any limitiation. |
| 18:33.52 | brlcad | that in turn is extended by the GFDL/GPL which say specifically what is given away under what restrictions |
| 18:34.35 | digitalfredy | yes some Rights Reserved |
| 18:34.56 | digitalfredy | no all |
| 18:36.07 | brlcad | it's not a contention point -- for the book, the phrase could probably be left out so long as it includes the COPYING details somewhere as well |
| 18:37.33 | brlcad | and still the original author does retain all rights -- recipients are bound by the license and copyright law |
| 18:37.59 | ``Erik | talked to a lawyer from the eff to see if it was good that way (since they have a "nomodification" policy, they wanted a copy of the tex file for re-use and asked it to be put under their doc license, heh |
| 18:38.01 | ``Erik | ) |
| 18:38.42 | brlcad | they wanted the tex-formatted gpl language provided under the gfdl? |
| 18:38.49 | brlcad | that's funny |
| 18:39.17 | digitalfredy | brlcad: i thik to cc is best licences for documentation |
| 18:39.55 | digitalfredy | but no problem first the first |
| 18:40.01 | digitalfredy | first put the doc in docbook |
| 18:40.02 | brlcad | what benefits does it provide over the current dual-license? :) |
| 18:40.39 | ``Erik | http://explorerdestroyer.com/ o.O |
| 18:40.54 | brlcad | i don't have religion on it, i frankly don't care a whole lot about the license on the docs -- it's hard enough to find people that are willing to work on documentation, let alone argue on how free to make the docs ;) |
| 18:41.31 | brlcad | i'd just as likely make all the docs public domain or CC as the current gpl/gfdl |
| 18:46.17 | digitalfredy | brlcad: i have to go, speack after |
| 18:46.36 | brlcad | sounds great.. i'll send you the docs |
| 18:47.00 | brlcad | thanks for working on the docs.. very cool |
| 18:47.15 | brlcad | i'll have to get your name and contact details at some point for announcements |
| 18:47.21 | brlcad | and credits |
| 18:47.26 | digitalfredy | ok |
| 18:47.42 | digitalfredy | i send you a mail |
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| 13:47.11 | CIA-9 | BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/db/toyjeep.asc: they are trademarks of mattel and daimler-crysler |
| 13:50.34 | CIA-9 | BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/NEWS: a new toy barbie jeep model was added, include a nice write-up of where the model comes from, the training class that produced it, and general overview of what was involved. |
| 14:34.02 | CIA-9 | BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/NEWS: archer gets support for multi-select and cut-n-paste from doug howard |
| 14:35.10 | CIA-9 | BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/AUTHORS: utf-8 version of Daniel's last name.. |
| 14:38.24 | CIA-9 | BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/tclscripts/archer/images/Themes/Crystal/Makefile.am: missing a handful of new files |
| 14:41.55 | CIA-9 | BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/tclscripts/archer/images/Themes/Crystal_Large/Makefile.am: missing a handful of new files |
| 14:56.41 | CIA-9 | BRL-CAD: 03prasad_silva * 10brlcad/src/conv/ (g-var.1 g-var.c Makefile.am): Added a vertex array exporter |
| 14:58.35 | CIA-9 | BRL-CAD: 03prasad_silva * 10brlcad/src/conv/.cvsignore: Added g-var executable to ignore list |
| 15:05.20 | CIA-9 | BRL-CAD: 03prasad_silva * 10brlcad/NEWS: g-var news |
| 15:21.18 | CIA-9 | BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/AUTHORS: prasad silva (arl) makes his first contribution with a new g-var tool |
| 16:38.32 | CIA-9 | BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/tclscripts/archer/images/Themes/Crystal (Large)/ (56 files): src/tclscripts/archer/images/Themes/Crystal (Large) was renamed/moved to Crystal_Large, deleted |
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| 15:52.47 | CIA-9 | BRL-CAD: 03bob1961 * 10brlcad/src/tclscripts/archer/CombEditFrame.tcl: Added code to potentially activate the "Accept" button etc. when tabbing to another entry. |
| 15:54.09 | CIA-9 | BRL-CAD: 03bob1961 * 10brlcad/src/tclscripts/archer/Archer.tcl: Added version info to the bottom of the "About" dialog. |
| 15:55.22 | CIA-9 | BRL-CAD: 03bob1961 * 10brlcad/src/tclscripts/archer/images/aboutArcher.png: Removed version info. |
| 16:20.22 | CIA-9 | BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/mged/ged.c: john noticed that sys/stat.h is needed for S_IRUSR and a few other mode flags now being used if DEBUG is enabled |
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| 18:23.26 | lakcaj | hi |
| 18:43.35 | digitalfredy | hi |
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| 21:21.33 | CIA-9 | BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/NEWS: moved archer version info to bottom of about dialog |
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| 03:31.02 | digitalfredy | brlcad: have a question about the document, are you in the chanel? |
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| 18:16.41 | *** topic/#brlcad is http://brlcad.org/ || BRL-CAD is now Free Software! || Release 7.8.0 is Posted! | |
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| 22:50.30 | cad436 | hello |
| 22:51.14 | brlcad | howdy |
| 22:51.47 | *** join/#brlcad Adamdaniel (n=443390f7@bz.bzflag.bz) | |
| 22:51.55 | Adamdaniel | Hi |
| 22:51.55 | brlcad | and he returns |
| 22:52.15 | Adamdaniel | I was wondering if someone could help me with my Windows BRL cad installation. |
| 22:52.26 | brlcad | "possibly" |
| 22:52.29 | Adamdaniel | I have it up and running, but it says no database |
| 22:52.31 | brlcad | it depends on what the problem is |
| 22:52.33 | brlcad | ah |
| 22:52.44 | brlcad | you need to specify a database :) |
| 22:53.11 | brlcad | (geometry files are known as geometry database files) |
| 22:53.24 | brlcad | so opening a database means, you need to open a file |
| 22:53.39 | Adamdaniel | thanks. |
| 22:53.49 | brlcad | you can do that by going to Open on the file menu or typing: opendb test.g on the command line |
| 22:53.54 | Adamdaniel | I downloaded the tutorial (am nub obviously) |
| 22:54.04 | brlcad | welcome |
| 22:54.57 | Adamdaniel | Of the open source programs I looked at, BRL-Cad looked the most promising for a nub like me. |
| 22:55.17 | Adamdaniel | I want to learn cad, I have a design I want to market. |
| 22:55.20 | brlcad | it's in full production use, and has been around forever ;) |
| 22:55.33 | brlcad | free doesn't hurt too |
| 22:55.41 | Adamdaniel | amen to that. |
| 22:56.16 | Adamdaniel | Is the tutorial from the site a good place to start, or is there another that might be better? |
| 22:56.27 | brlcad | it's got a pretty hefty learning curve (as just about every CAD system does), but it's pretty featured |
| 22:57.05 | brlcad | the "Introduction to MGED" on the website is meant to be fairly comprehensive (and not "short", though it can be completed in a day) |
| 22:57.37 | brlcad | be sure to check out the MGED Quick Reference Card to have on hand |
| 22:57.56 | Adamdaniel | is someone in this channel most of the time too? |
| 22:59.06 | Adamdaniel | I appreciate you answering my questions, I am sure I will have more, but I am off to do some reading :0 |
| 22:59.08 | Adamdaniel | Thanks. |
| 22:59.12 | brlcad | most of the time, yeah |
| 23:02.15 | animall | how well does the x86-64 linux version work? |
| 23:02.36 | animall | or will some of the features hang up on 64bit linux? |
| 23:03.18 | brlcad | it should work just fine |
| 23:03.54 | brlcad | if there are any problems, please report them (sf.net/projects/brlcad under the bugs section or here) |
| 23:03.54 | animall | good, now if some of the movie players would get with the program and support 64 bit, i would be real happy |
| 23:04.14 | brlcad | brl-cad has worked 64-bit for a couple decades ;) |
| 23:04.52 | brlcad | if there's any problems, it's usually opengl-related (which can be compile-time disabled with no loss in functionality) |
| 23:04.52 | animall | yep, remember reading that, just didnt know if there might be any hangups because of the memory mapping difference on x86-64 between amd and intel chips |
| 23:05.19 | animall | np on that, already modified the driver so it wont give me fits |
| 23:05.22 | brlcad | nah, x86-64 is one of the primary systems used |
| 23:05.33 | animall | good |
| 23:05.36 | brlcad | only problems that come to mind are some freebsd 6 threading bugs |
| 23:05.41 | animall | ouch |
| 23:06.07 | brlcad | but from everything I've seen debugging, it looks like a bug in freebsd land, not in brl-cad land |
| 23:06.25 | animall | I've still got to reread the docs, but I'm planning on seeing how well it likes dual core threading with em64t in a week or so |
| 23:06.27 | brlcad | (it's specific to amd64 freebsd) |
| 23:06.35 | animall | ah |
| 23:06.40 | animall | lower memory mapping ability |
| 23:06.44 | brlcad | linux should be fine |
| 23:07.09 | animall | cool |
| 23:07.36 | brlcad | and again, if it's not -- if you run into a problem, please do report it -- those are rather high priority issues |
| 23:07.36 | animall | i've got some blueprints i want to get setup before the paper decides to fall apart on me |
| 23:08.03 | animall | np |
| 23:08.33 | animall | i just have to make sure i dont bring any of the proprietary stuff out of work into it |
| 23:08.56 | brlcad | there's a nice "brief" intro available from a user here: http://sourceforge.net/forum/forum.php?thread_id=1447646&forum_id=362509 |
| 23:09.05 | animall | http://people.redhat.com/blizzard/monkeys.txt |
| 23:09.07 | animall | oops |
| 23:09.15 | animall | wrong option selected |
| 23:09.27 | brlcad | heh :) |
| 23:11.10 | animall | i was thinking of setting it up to handle some 3d data modelling for some of the test systems at work |
| 23:11.35 | animall | sort of an extra validation mechanism for code changes on development applications |
| 23:13.14 | brlcad | interesting |
| 23:13.28 | brlcad | what area of focus is that? machining? |
| 23:13.42 | animall | circuit / chipset design |
| 23:13.46 | brlcad | ah |
| 23:13.50 | animall | validation tools inputing data |
| 23:14.17 | brlcad | mm.. reminds me that I need to get back to work on the automatic knapsack packing library |
| 23:14.23 | animall | and using the input data for 3d modeling of any areas to visually identify potential problems |
| 23:14.28 | brlcad | for optimal packing solutions |
| 23:14.40 | animall | sounds painful |
| 23:14.51 | brlcad | not horribly |
| 23:15.13 | brlcad | there was a great research paper that effectively solved the problem for regular shaped objects in a static space |
| 23:15.45 | brlcad | with brl-cad, I believe that can be extended to arbitrary shapes fairly easily so you get nice tight packing |
| 23:16.10 | brlcad | for things like machinging out of a piece of material, optimally placing components onto a circuit board, etc |
| 23:16.21 | animall | yeah, could be benificial, esp in distributed computing on large scale projects |
| 23:17.21 | animall | time for me to hit the books again, got to review some perl for tomorrow |
| 23:17.49 | animall | thnx on the assistance :) |
| 23:17.53 | brlcad | no problem |
| 23:18.03 | brlcad | thanks for the interest |
| 00:11.26 | pra5ad | sean |
| 00:11.39 | pra5ad | whats with wendy getting all agitated about g-var |
| 00:12.05 | pra5ad | apparently it was part of a ttm |
| 00:14.36 | ``Erik | ahhhhhh |
| 00:54.16 | animall | stupid question, on make benchmark |
| 00:54.41 | animall | is the output needed for comparison with other systems? |
| 00:58.46 | brlcad | animall: depends, but generally no |
| 00:59.29 | animall | ok |
| 00:59.55 | animall | im taking the source into work tomorrow, ill run it on one of the machines in development |
| 00:59.56 | brlcad | animall: the output is useful to see how stable the numbers are, how rapidly it converges, how many iterations it took |
| 01:00.08 | brlcad | but the summary VGR count is what ultimately matters |
| 01:00.22 | brlcad | and that is both reported in the output and saved in text file named 'summary' |
| 01:00.31 | animall | k |
| 01:00.44 | brlcad | be sure to run ./configure with --enable-optimized --disable-debug for best performance |
| 01:00.44 | animall | ill see how much of a punch quad dual cores can hammer out |
| 01:00.54 | animall | running that now |
| 01:01.13 | animall | hehe, make the engineers freak out |
| 01:01.35 | brlcad | fwiw, 'make benchmark' is installed with brl-cad as a tool named 'benchmark' |
| 01:02.16 | brlcad | what sort of numbers are you getting now? |
| 01:02.35 | animall | 1109.09 843.08 1170.35 933.45 856.26 4.29 819.42 |
| 01:02.57 | brlcad | eek |
| 01:02.57 | animall | single core Celeron D in em64t with 800mhz fsb/ ich5 southbridge |
| 01:03.02 | brlcad | ahh |
| 01:03.27 | brlcad | that must be unoptimized i take it? |
| 01:03.27 | animall | and a vanilla FC5 2.6.16-1 kernel |
| 01:03.31 | animall | correct |
| 01:03.59 | brlcad | the last number there, 819 was the VGR count |
| 01:04.10 | animall | i've still got to update the southbridge and northbridge microcode, DFI fragged up and shipped the wrong mircrocode out on this board |
| 01:04.17 | animall | k |
| 01:04.22 | brlcad | that's a linear metric, so a machine with 800 and another with 1600 means the second is 2x performance |
| 01:04.36 | animall | k |
| 01:05.06 | animall | not too bad for a board/cpu/ram that ran me like $300 |
| 01:05.34 | brlcad | you can get all sorts of interesting results tweaking compilation options, of course too -- default is usually just a handful of non-platform-limiting options geared towards gcc |
| 01:05.36 | animall | next box is going to run around $6K |
| 01:06.20 | brlcad | you can tack on CC and CFLAGS/CPPFLAGS/LDFLAGS to configure and it will carry then through as well |
| 01:06.22 | animall | gcc does have some quirks |
| 01:06.27 | animall | ok |
| 01:06.59 | animall | I havent looked at the code yet, I might later on this summer after I finish some driver upgrades at work |
| 01:07.35 | brlcad | optimized vs default will generally result in about a 2x increase (diff between -O0 and -O3 -ffast-math) |
| 01:07.50 | animall | ok |
| 01:08.10 | brlcad | for gcc at least |
| 01:08.28 | brlcad | icc and mipspro have their own interesting behaviors |
| 01:08.32 | animall | lesson learned on -O3 is that cross platform compiles turn into a blithering mess |
| 01:08.38 | animall | icc is a pain in the butt |
| 01:08.50 | brlcad | heh |
| 01:08.50 | animall | i have to work with it everyday |
| 01:09.06 | brlcad | i like icc's dual-pass optimization mode |
| 01:09.26 | animall | that is good, esp if the system has the correct microcode |
| 01:09.32 | brlcad | gcc has one too, but not nearly as nice (at least not nearly as familiar) |
| 01:10.11 | animall | dual pass in gcc is a bit more of a cpu hog, and on a system with 600+ users for doing development, it has a tendancy to tick off people |
| 01:10.49 | brlcad | 600+ users on a system, eeww |
| 01:11.10 | brlcad | hopefully a 512 processor altix or something |
| 01:11.32 | brlcad | something massive smp at least |
| 01:12.14 | animall | quad xeons with HT |
| 01:12.26 | animall | its due for an upgrade this year though |
| 01:12.46 | brlcad | that's quite a load of users for a system that "small" |
| 01:13.09 | animall | yeah, but it holds the load, mainly for test scripts and compiling code changes |
| 01:13.10 | brlcad | are they not cpu intensive users? I could eat that much up easily on a daily basis |
| 01:13.15 | animall | majority of the load is vim |
| 01:13.19 | brlcad | heh |
| 01:13.35 | animall | mainly its maybe 30 people killing the cpu |
| 01:14.26 | brlcad | so 'only' a load of about 50 all the time ;) |
| 01:16.36 | CIA-9 | BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/TODO: geometry example of building 238 is pushed back |
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| 01:21.49 | brlcad | hello akin |
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| 01:22.21 | brlcad | goodbye akin |
| 01:27.03 | animall | 1403.47 |
| 01:27.17 | animall | run with optimized |
| 01:27.33 | animall | pretty much about it on the load |
| 01:29.06 | animall | run 3 w/ --disable-debug |
| 01:30.28 | brlcad | that's looking more reasonable |
| 01:31.00 | brlcad | --disable-debug doesn't really give you much except a slight hint of memory coherence |
| 01:31.07 | brlcad | --enable-optimized gives the bang |
| 01:34.31 | animall | freed up some mem also, maybe that will help |
| 01:35.17 | animall | model name: Intel(R) Celeron(R) CPU 2.53GHz |
| 01:35.54 | animall | ive got the same model with dual core waiting an ICH7 board with a i965 northbridge |
| 01:39.49 | brlcad | free'ing up memory shouldn't be a big difference unless you actually needed to swap to exec |
| 01:40.12 | brlcad | the models intentionally are not large to avoid memory paging timings |
| 01:40.42 | brlcad | what will be a factor is L1/L2 cache sizes and register efficiency |
| 01:42.24 | pra5ad | heh bldg 238 |
| 01:42.44 | pra5ad | including the trap doors and croc pit? |
| 01:42.56 | brlcad | but of course |
| 02:20.16 | animall | 1569.93 |
| 02:20.32 | animall | --enable-optimize --disable-debug |
| 02:20.35 | animall | not bad |
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| 03:32.40 | digitalfredy | brlcad: ping |
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| 18:34.10 | Maloeran | Question for anyone familar with BRL-CAD and its raytracers, what is the use for VOXELs? Is raytracing support required for scenes that mix triangles and voxels? |
| 20:24.40 | pier | logout |
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| 20:31.09 | digitalfredy | brlcad: ping |
| 20:41.11 | brlcad | digitalfredy: pong |
| 20:41.19 | digitalfredy | hello |
| 20:41.28 | digitalfredy | i'm reading your mail |
| 20:42.51 | brlcad | Maloeran: i presume you mean the 'vol' volumetric primitive? |
| 20:45.32 | brlcad | The vol primitive is a basic (mostly unoptimized) volume primitive that supports visualization of cell data like you might get from a CT or MRI scan. implemented for medical visualization primarily, though it has other uses. |
| 20:46.41 | brlcad | not sure what you mean by "is raytracing support required for scenes that mix triangles and voxels" .. BRL-CAD supports raytracing of arbitrary collections of primitives |
| 20:46.46 | brlcad | necessarily has to |
| 20:51.23 | Maloeran | Right. The SOW for developing high-performance raytracing software for BRL-CAD requests support for VOXEL datasets, that was unexpected |
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| 00:07.29 | Twingy | I added the voxel stuff :} |
| 00:07.55 | ``Erik | heh |
| 00:08.22 | Twingy | but I'm sure Lee will tell you he added it :) |
| 00:09.48 | ``Erik | hahha |
| 00:10.47 | Twingy | forizzle |
| 00:11.14 | ``Erik | he doesn't seem to appreciate it when you call him on that shit in public forum... but he seems to swallow it and move on. |
| 00:11.17 | ``Erik | O:-) |
| 00:11.31 | Twingy | ask me if I care :) |
| 00:11.45 | ``Erik | I already know your answer, bitch |
| 00:11.59 | Twingy | good, homofaggatus |
| 00:12.09 | ``Erik | *I* intend to keep calling him on it, if people care to join, groovy |
| 00:12.51 | ``Erik | credit given where credit is due, I support the concept of a meritocracy, and I'm willing to make some people look like dumbasses to support it. :D |
| 00:13.00 | ``Erik | if only I did anything worth merit *sigh* |
| 00:13.32 | Twingy | I've mentioned your name on contributing to those cluster build system stuff every muves meeting for the last month |
| 00:13.46 | ``Erik | thnx |
| 00:13.46 | Twingy | "Erik Greenwald did this... Thanks to Erik we have this. Erik just got blah working, etc." |
| 00:14.09 | Twingy | lee hasn't brought your name up once iirc |
| 00:14.11 | ``Erik | I'm sure other parties are attempting to claim that I am 100% commited to muves |
| 00:14.20 | ``Erik | if I'm not there, he won't |
| 00:14.23 | ``Erik | it's not his nature |
| 00:15.16 | ``Erik | I vagually recall some meeting a few months ago where he said he did something and I corrected him, noting that you did it, and he had to agree, but he seemed... uncomfortable. :) |
| 00:15.44 | ``Erik | I have a suspicion I'm gonna piss him off a lot over the next few months. |
| 00:16.18 | Twingy | I suspect everyone who's no passive and agreeable with him annoys him |
| 00:16.26 | ``Erik | I don't mind correcting people in public O:-) dixie got a smackdown infront of the division, tyvm |
| 00:17.57 | ``Erik | but lee is generally open to correction and he generally wants to do 'the right thing', even if he wants to claim credit, so that makes him less odious than ... some other individuals. |
| 00:18.27 | Twingy | he doesn't learn very quick then :) |
| 00:18.35 | ``Erik | speaking of "some other individuals", are you going to try to have a discussion to push that toughbook? |
| 00:18.47 | Twingy | nope, not important |
| 00:19.12 | ``Erik | hehehe, I think he's gotten away with enough that he has a bit of a god complex going, it'll take a good series of rapid smackdown to make an impression :) |
| 00:19.24 | Twingy | go for it :) |
| 00:19.53 | ``Erik | I think your toughbook request IS important... not because of the piece of hardware, but because of the policy and the blind adherence to it |
| 00:20.11 | Twingy | for somone that cares, sure |
| 00:20.17 | ``Erik | you got the letter, bitch, go nail it to the church door. |
| 00:20.18 | ``Erik | :D |
| 00:20.30 | Twingy | I stopped caring :) |
| 00:20.36 | ``Erik | bah |
| 00:20.53 | Twingy | I am collecting a pay check |
| 00:21.13 | Twingy | I can buy toys to get real work done on the weekend |
| 00:21.34 | ``Erik | well, true, I'm there on that, but if I were getting a hw order cockblocked because of general idiocity, I'd feel at least some responsibility to raise a nasty stink on it |
| 00:22.18 | ``Erik | where oh where is that hot 25yo redhead nurse... |
| 00:23.13 | ``Erik | if you want, tell me what else is on the order with that toughbook, and I'll swing by and raise a stink for you... heh |
| 00:27.17 | Twingy | not important |
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| 03:00.09 | *** topic/#brlcad is http://brlcad.org/ || BRL-CAD is now Free Software! || Release 7.8.0 is Posted! | |
| 06:15.01 | Maloeran | Ah Justin :), so you need voxel support somewhere? I just wouldn't have expected that |
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| 10:21.12 | dpy | hi |
| 10:21.15 | dpy | anyone around ? |
| 10:39.24 | dpy | does anyone here know how to get this effect in opengl: http://www.cadcamnet.com/Online/03/nov/04nov-sw1hsSE_15.jpg |
| 10:41.16 | archivist | I would draw that in solidworks or solid edge |
| 11:56.19 | dpy | yes |
| 11:56.26 | dpy | but I want to render it in opengl |
| 11:56.39 | dpy | the whole point is... I save the model as xgl |
| 11:56.46 | dpy | then import it in my program |
| 11:57.03 | dpy | but then I want to render it again as solid edge does |
| 12:49.56 | pra5ad | hah |
| 12:50.05 | pra5ad | gooch shader from the orange book |
| 12:50.13 | pra5ad | cept the cool color is red |
| 12:50.18 | pra5ad | nothing special there |
| 13:31.51 | dpy | pra5ad: where I can download example code that does this ? |
| 13:34.55 | dpy | do you know ? |
| 14:07.58 | Maloeran | What is troublesome specifically? Rendering the outlines? |
| 14:10.40 | Maloeran | You could render the contours as a GL_LINE_LOOP, with a little tweak on glDepthRange or glPolygonOffset to prevent Z fighting issues while still getting mostly accurate Z buffering ( so you don't see lines rendered for culled surfaces ) |
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| 14:53.40 | dpy | Okay, I'm now manually trying to detect edges |
| 14:54.06 | dpy | and I will create a 3d outline model for this |
| 14:54.27 | dpy | but what I was afraid off is happening, I can't seem to find faces belonging to edges |
| 14:54.58 | dpy | http://rafb.net/paste/results/0efP5u82.html |
| 14:59.54 | Maloeran | Mmm, ruby. The "external" outline is simply defined as separating triangles facing towards or away from the eye |
| 15:01.11 | dpy | no I need all edges |
| 15:01.19 | dpy | not just the "outline" of the object |
| 15:01.56 | dpy | e.g. when you look straight down at: /\ |
| 15:02.13 | dpy | neither will be facing away from the eye, but there still is an edge |
| 15:02.32 | Maloeran | Right, I'm just mentionning that this outline is different and dynamic as the eye moves. For the rest... I suppose I would group triangles by connectivity and similar normals up to a breaking point |
| 15:03.10 | dpy | so what I'm doing right now is, I calculate all face normals, then flag all edges with 2 face normals that are angled > than some threshold |
| 15:03.13 | Maloeran | A good robust solution is going to be much more complex than what you have there |
| 15:03.53 | dpy | can't I just combine both ? |
| 15:04.33 | dpy | combine the view direction dependend outline (the one you suggest above) with the detected edges |
| 15:04.33 | Maloeran | It depends what you want. Do you want any contour to pop up if you have a sphere for example? |
| 15:04.50 | dpy | depends on the threshold |
| 15:04.56 | Maloeran | Of course, I'm just saying that the "external" outline is to be computed at run-time, the surface contours can be precalculated |
| 15:05.14 | dpy | anyway |
| 15:05.28 | dpy | currently I can't even find two faces belonging to the same edge |
| 15:05.29 | dpy | grrr |
| 15:05.57 | Maloeran | You'll need to build yourself some table for this, first of all |
| 15:07.26 | dpy | I'm doign so, didn't you see the pastebin ? |
| 15:07.50 | Maloeran | Only briefly |
| 15:07.51 | dpy | I take the sum of the two vertices belonging to the edge as a key into a hashtable |
| 15:08.03 | dpy | because summation is commutative |
| 15:09.02 | Maloeran | That doesn't sound right. 1+5 = 2+4, you want to find another triangle that has the same vertex indices but in the opposite order |
| 15:10.02 | Maloeran | The "external" outline calculation is a common need for stencil shadows, if you want to get some reading material on the first part |
| 15:10.41 | dpy | stencilling is extremely slow on my ATI 7500 |
| 15:16.57 | Maloeran | I'm just saying the connectivity and silhouette determination problems are the same, if you are looking for some guide on that part |
| 15:17.24 | Maloeran | After that, you can worry about precalculating surface contours |
| 15:19.50 | dpy | oh okay, so you are suggesting I'm going the wrong way around ? |
| 15:20.57 | Maloeran | First of all, you certainly need to gather connectivity information, and what you presently have won't work :) |
| 15:24.39 | dpy | you mean, I need a better way to turn two vertices into a key |
| 15:26.27 | Maloeran | Correct. If you got the pair 2,4 for example, you need to find the pair 4,2 to get the connected triangle and not just some pair with a sum of 6 |
| 15:26.53 | dpy | Maloeran: it depends |
| 15:27.04 | dpy | if they are floats you will not have that many collisions |
| 15:27.20 | dpy | but I already started a new class: MatchKey |
| 15:27.21 | Maloeran | Floats? We are talking about vertex indices, right? |
| 15:27.52 | dpy | yes, now we are |
| 15:28.41 | Maloeran | Right, the same indices that would be used by glDrawElements() for rendering |
| 15:29.49 | dpy | http://rafb.net/paste/results/sthQy870.html |
| 15:31.26 | Maloeran | Generally, indices will be in the reverse order. You can still build a single key for fast lookup by the way |
| 15:31.47 | Maloeran | Such as A*IndiceCount+B where A or B is always the lowest indice of the two |
| 15:59.20 | Maloeran | Any better success? |
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| 16:19.30 | dpy | Maloeran: no, I don't get any matches |
| 16:53.46 | dpy | I got ittttttttttttttt |
| 16:53.48 | dpy | !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! |
| 16:54.27 | dpy | you gotta see this (step 1) |
| 16:55.53 | dpy | http://www.dwarfhouse.org/mtoele/edge_image.png |
| 16:58.07 | *** join/#brlcad pier (n=pier@151.56.236.140) | |
| 17:01.52 | Maloeran | Nice dpy :) |
| 17:02.22 | dpy | if I adjust the threshold, it also puts strokes on curvatures |
| 17:02.52 | Maloeran | Are you just looking for sharp edges, or building surfaces up to a certain treshold for the whole surface? |
| 17:03.13 | dpy | no I need two more things: 1: the outline using your pointers, 2: combine this with the shaded model and avoid Z buffer errors |
| 17:03.48 | Maloeran | Ah, right |
| 17:03.49 | dpy | Maloeran: ultimately I want that yes, but for now I'll settle with edges only |
| 17:04.34 | dpy | but I know what you mean, a sloped surface that stays under the threshold all the time should also have a stroke somewhere I think |
| 17:04.57 | dpy | but now it's food time |
| 17:05.02 | Maloeran | Yes, it does in the curvy door picture you pasted a while ago |
| 17:05.36 | dpy | up to now, it was pretty much doable |
| 17:05.48 | dpy | and I wasted again too much time looking for source code to spoonfeed me |
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| 19:53.40 | brlcad | /db/ goto -50 |
| 19:56.28 | brlcad | dpy: if you have brl-cad geometry, there is an edge raytracer for that sort of shaded edge rendering |
| 19:56.51 | brlcad | an example is in the screenshots section even iirc.. ah yes: http://sourceforge.net/project/screenshots.php?group_id=105292&ssid=4470 |
| 20:09.08 | Maloeran | Raytracing edges, curious |
| 20:12.09 | brlcad | yep, pretty nifty |
| 20:12.11 | brlcad | http://brlcad.org/images/havoc_rtedge.png |
| 20:13.31 | brlcad | utilizes identification of unique regions, local neighbor information, and curvature to determine whether the current pixel is an edge or not |
| 20:14.01 | Maloeran | I was just typing a long question, which included how I was guessing it was done :) |
| 20:14.30 | Maloeran | So it precalculates edges for specific groups and determine if the ray lies on an edge during raytracing |
| 20:14.43 | Maloeran | within the border thickness anyhow |
| 20:14.49 | brlcad | not really |
| 20:15.03 | Maloeran | Okay, so I didn't get it |
| 20:15.35 | brlcad | it uses the hit point details of the neighbors, they come back during the raytrace as reporting that you hit a given region/object |
| 20:15.52 | Maloeran | Ah I see |
| 20:15.59 | brlcad | if you go from one object to another object on two neighboring pixels, there's an edge there |
| 20:16.28 | brlcad | or if the distance along the ray is significantly different, you've got an edge |
| 20:16.39 | Maloeran | Simple enough |
| 20:16.45 | brlcad | or if the curvature between two neighboring pixels is significantly different, you've got an edge |
| 20:16.59 | brlcad | yeah, not really a complex idea, works pretty well |
| 20:17.04 | Maloeran | *nods* Thanks |
| 20:17.33 | Maloeran | Completely unrelated, I don't suppose Lee hangs around here? |
| 20:18.00 | brlcad | he shows up once or twice a month sometimes, never hangs around for very long |
| 20:18.37 | Maloeran | Okay. I was wondering a couple things about the SOW for raytracing software but it can wait |
| 20:19.02 | brlcad | wouldn't be a good idea to discuss that here regardless |
| 20:20.21 | brlcad | this channel and/or irc in general is not really appropriate for topics that concern ARL business directly |
| 20:20.50 | brlcad | s/business/business, people, places, tasks, etc/ |
| 20:21.03 | brlcad | grr, ibot_ |
| 20:21.14 | Maloeran | :) Understood |
| 20:23.34 | brlcad | woot, fixed |
| 20:23.43 | brlcad | s/fixed/should be fixed/ |
| 20:23.46 | brlcad | excellent |
| 20:25.13 | pier | hi everybody |
| 20:25.19 | animall | greetings |
| 20:25.47 | pier | I got last 7.8.0 version on my pc |
| 20:26.29 | pier | but there must be something wrong with former ones that don't want to work any more |
| 20:26.48 | pier | I get thi error |
| 20:27.02 | pier | /usr/brlcad_7.6.4/stable/bin/mged: symbol lookup error: /usr/brlcad_7.6.4/stable/bin/mged: undefined symbol: bu_argv0 |
| 20:27.03 | dpy | brlcad: looks cool, although for now I'm satisfied with my own results |
| 20:27.26 | dpy | also, I'm too stupid to work effectively with brlcad, I use solid edge for making parts and assemblies |
| 20:30.38 | brlcad | howdy pier |
| 20:31.20 | brlcad | dpy: understood, just thought you might like to know that it was there just in case ;) |
| 20:31.57 | brlcad | pier: odd error.. do you have LD_LIBRARY_PATH or BRLCAD_ROOT set? |
| 20:32.47 | pier | mmm |
| 20:32.56 | pier | let's see |
| 20:33.12 | pier | I noticed I got this error too |
| 20:33.25 | brlcad | and why is it running /usr/brlcad_7.6.4 if you have 7.8.0 installed? |
| 20:34.01 | pier | difficult question :) |
| 20:34.41 | Maloeran | A mismatch of versions between binaries and libraries may have such interesting results |
| 20:34.44 | pier | when I rename brlcad dir to i.e. brlcad_7.8.0 |
| 20:34.53 | brlcad | eep, don't do that |
| 20:35.11 | brlcad | a renamed install directory is considered a relocation |
| 20:35.15 | pier | I wanted to preserve all the old versions |
| 20:35.24 | brlcad | brl-cad has compiled-in data-search paths |
| 20:35.32 | pier | ok |
| 20:35.48 | brlcad | you can override them at run-time with BRLCAD_ROOT, but you shouldn't relocate if you don't have to |
| 20:35.55 | brlcad | did you compile yourself, or downloaded binary? |
| 20:35.56 | pier | ok |
| 20:36.16 | pier | I happened to download binary |
| 20:36.18 | brlcad | you should NOT have BRLCAD_ROOT (or LD_LIB..) set if you did not relocate |
| 20:36.47 | brlcad | depending on the platform, for newer versions at least, they will all happily coexist in /usr/brlcad |
| 20:37.07 | brlcad | there should be a /usr/brlcad/stable symbolic link that points to the last installed |
| 20:37.28 | brlcad | with each new version installed as /usr/brlcad/rel-7.8.0 for example |
| 20:38.02 | brlcad | so you only add /usr/brlcad/bin to your path to always use the latest mged for example, or run /usr/brlcad/rel-7.6.4/bin/mged to get that specific version |
| 20:38.26 | pier | ok thanks very much |
| 20:38.53 | brlcad | i don't think the mergeable installs were done fro 7.6.4 though.. don't remember |
| 20:38.59 | brlcad | maybe |
| 20:39.22 | brlcad | have to see what's in /usr/brlcad_7.6.4 (which I presume WAS /usr/brlcad and you renamed it?) |
| 20:39.52 | pier | yes |
| 20:40.02 | brlcad | if there's no symbolic link, then you can leave it as /usr/brlcad_7.6.4 and set BRLCAD_ROOT to that when you want to use it |
| 20:40.49 | pier | can't I just cd to /usr/brlcad_7.6.4/bin and run mged? |
| 20:41.13 | pier | no as a matter of fact |
| 20:41.18 | brlcad | nope |
| 20:41.29 | brlcad | mged needs to locate several resources in order to start up |
| 20:41.48 | pier | yes |
| 20:41.50 | brlcad | it has no idea how to search for them since you effectively "moved" it |
| 20:42.01 | brlcad | it'll dump out with a gui or other tcl error |
| 20:42.15 | brlcad | setting BRLCAD_ROOT will make it work |
| 20:42.22 | brlcad | and/or BRLCAD_DATA |
| 20:42.31 | brlcad | albeit to a different path |
| 20:42.41 | pier | ok |
| 20:43.03 | pier | at least now I know how to deal with it |
| 20:48.37 | brlcad | there is actually code written that will let mged 'discover' that it was relocated and utilize a relative search ordering priority to try to find if it's resources were also relocated |
| 20:48.52 | brlcad | the code is just not activated.. needs to be tested more before being made active |
| 20:49.37 | brlcad | hardly any program that loads resources dynamically find them automatically, involved a nice hack based on where the binary lives on the filesystem |
| 20:52.26 | pier | ok but with a link it works fine |
| 20:54.21 | pier | I'll move to 7.8.0 and hopefully finish my new router (got a bit busy with an exam lately) |
| 20:55.56 | pier | do you think that compiling from the source the code would be better optimized? I mean is it worthwhile compiling now that I see that new version works? |
| 20:58.31 | brlcad | shouldn't gain you a whole lot really |
| 20:58.35 | brlcad | but you certainly could |
| 20:59.04 | brlcad | you could add your own platform-specific optimizations to squeeze another 10% or so performance out |
| 20:59.35 | brlcad | default distributed binaries are high optimization, but not platform-limited |
| 21:03.23 | pier | is there a way to get mget pointing to a project dir at startup? |
| 21:06.31 | dpy | http://www.dwarfhouse.org/mtoele/c_bracketed_servo.png |
| 21:09.07 | brlcad | pier: what do you mean? |
| 21:09.46 | pier | the startup windows alwais point to the actual dir |
| 21:09.47 | brlcad | pier: mged will process a .mgedrc in your home dir on startup, you can add just about any tcl scripting in there |
| 21:09.54 | pier | azz |
| 21:09.58 | pier | sorry |
| 21:10.28 | brlcad | dpy: nifty, though wierd tolerancing issues |
| 21:10.43 | dpy | what ? |
| 21:10.48 | dpy | you mean the Z buffer fighting? |
| 21:11.20 | dpy | self.scale = 1.008; #TODO: more robust way of doing this |
| 21:11.32 | dpy | I have to find a good way of doing this |
| 21:11.43 | dpy | I haven't been able to find the "offset" documentation yet |
| 21:16.29 | brlcad | yep |
| 21:19.18 | pier | buona notte atutti! |
| 21:19.33 | brlcad | heh :) |
| 21:19.57 | *** part/#brlcad pier (n=pier@151.56.236.140) | |
| 21:27.47 | dpy | notte ? isn't it noche or something ? |
| 21:29.22 | brlcad | ~translate en it good night to you |
| 21:29.37 | brlcad | ~translate en es good night to you |
| 21:30.08 | brlcad | tutti is just the familiar tense |
| 21:31.18 | dpy | ah ok |
| 21:31.44 | dpy | no he said: good night to all |
| 21:31.46 | dpy | a tutti |
| 21:32.19 | dpy | one day I'll learn to speak italian |
| 21:32.27 | dpy | it just has to wait until I have more time :) |
| 21:33.15 | brlcad | ~translate it en a tutti |
| 21:34.02 | dpy | ~translate it en tutti fruti |
| 21:34.03 | brlcad | hmm |
| 21:34.10 | dpy | ~translate it en tutti frutti |
| 21:35.09 | dpy | ~translate it en prego parlare inglese |
| 21:35.19 | dpy | lol |
| 21:35.22 | dpy | that's wrong |
| 21:35.36 | dpy | "please speak english" |
| 21:35.46 | dpy | ~translate en it please speak english |
| 21:36.44 | brlcad | literally, i believe it was right |
| 21:37.02 | brlcad | please is most translations is a form of begging/praying |
| 21:37.13 | brlcad | prego is first person |
| 21:37.34 | brlcad | in that order at least, not imperative |
| 21:37.54 | brlcad | funny either way ;) |
| 21:39.41 | dpy | yes |
| 21:39.52 | dpy | but that's where computers always go wrong |
| 21:39.57 | dpy | the interpretation |
| 21:40.10 | dpy | computers can't interprete |
| 21:40.42 | dpy | I've researched it a bit now I understand what information means, and data and that it is not the same |
| 21:40.49 | dpy | computers transform data, not information |
| 21:40.56 | ``Erik | impregnate what? huh? |
| 21:41.05 | dpy | lol |
| 21:41.06 | dpy | preggo |
| 21:52.42 | Maloeran | So it doesn't do french or it doesn't like me :) |
| 21:52.45 | pra5ad | si non oscillas, noli tintinnares |
| 21:55.33 | pra5ad | blame hugh hefner |
| 21:58.12 | brlcad | Maloeran: you have to tell it the languages to and from |
| 21:58.20 | brlcad | ~translate fr en s'il vous pla?t |
| 21:58.44 | brlcad | pasting that char didn't go so well here |
| 22:00.45 | Maloeran | Not much better. Anyhow, it's the closest french translation for "please" |
| 22:00.51 | brlcad | ~translate en fr please |
| 22:01.00 | brlcad | heh |
| 22:01.14 | brlcad | cheater |
| 22:01.58 | Maloeran | Ahah |
| 22:16.40 | dpy | ~translate fr en s'il vous plait |
| 22:17.22 | dpy | I guess it doesn't like circonflex or the encoding is off |
| 22:38.32 | brlcad | i believe it just passes it on to babelfish, so whatever babelfish wants though there is undoubtedly a few encoding conversions possible along the way |
| 23:25.49 | *** join/#brlcad PrezKennedy (n=Apathy@c-68-33-243-45.hsd1.md.comcast.net) | |
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| 05:25.51 | *** join/#brlcad digitalfredy (n=digitalf@200.119.94.45) | |
| 06:24.39 | digitalfredy | ibot: hello bot |
| 06:25.14 | digitalfredy | hey ibot is a bot? |
| 08:59.09 | *** part/#brlcad digitalfredy (n=digitalf@200.119.94.45) | |
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| 15:16.29 | *** join/#brlcad dpy (n=marcel@k17242.upc-k.chello.nl) | |
| 15:16.41 | dpy | hi guys |
| 15:46.08 | brlcad | howdy |
| 15:49.00 | dpy | hey hoo |
| 15:49.04 | dpy | I'm fine |
| 15:49.05 | dpy | you ? |
| 15:57.48 | *** join/#brlcad pier (n=pier@151.56.202.117) | |
| 16:35.37 | *** join/#brlcad rogier (n=rogier@16-65-dsl.ipact.nl) | |
| 16:59.47 | brlcad | pretty good |
| 16:59.56 | brlcad | busy as ever, but good |
| 17:09.08 | pier | hi brlcad |
| 17:09.42 | pier | is advisable to have direct rendering enabled? |
| 17:48.15 | *** join/#brlcad pier (n=pier@151.56.194.137) | |
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| 14:51.07 | brlcad | pier: direct rendering shouldn't help or hurt, bugs notwithstanding |
| 14:55.09 | pier | :) thanks |
| 15:03.23 | brlcad | there's not an expectation that it will be fixed before this weekend |
| 15:03.38 | digitalfredy | brlcad: hello |
| 15:03.45 | brlcad | hola |
| 15:04.32 | digitalfredy | brlcad: need the names of the autor of overview document |
| 15:05.00 | digitalfredy | and needs they affiliations |
| 15:05.25 | brlcad | that one is more 'open' to debate, it's been rewritten and modified by many |
| 15:05.31 | brlcad | no single author |
| 15:05.57 | digitalfredy | is for put in the docuemt |
| 15:05.58 | brlcad | digitalfredy: use the same names as volume II for starters |
| 15:06.15 | digitalfredy | brlcad: ok |
| 15:06.19 | brlcad | actually, just put Eric for starters |
| 15:06.31 | brlcad | he wrote the majority |
| 15:07.29 | digitalfredy | like see the header made at this moment? |
| 15:08.24 | brlcad | huh? |
| 15:08.53 | digitalfredy | how can send you a file in irc? |
| 15:09.42 | brlcad | mm, can /ctcp it or ftp it to ftp.brlcad.org/incoming |
| 15:10.37 | digitalfredy | <PROTECTED> |
| 15:11.14 | digitalfredy | brlcad: open a priv |
| 15:12.29 | digitalfredy | i now send files in irc usin the GUI (drag and drop) |
| 15:13.44 | brlcad | open a priv? you initiate a send, and I will get a notification and can accept the receive |
| 15:15.48 | brlcad | http://www.irchelp.org/irchelp/ircprimer.html#DCC |
| 15:16.02 | brlcad | <PROTECTED> |
| 15:16.16 | brlcad | er |
| 15:16.19 | brlcad | <PROTECTED> |
| 15:18.15 | digitalfredy | brlcad: say not valid command |
| 15:18.34 | digitalfredy | brlcad: weit |
| 15:19.04 | brlcad | puedes mandarlo por ftp o mandamelo por e-mail |
| 15:19.58 | digitalfredy | brlcad: sen me /msg any |
| 15:22.23 | brlcad | lo hice |
| 15:23.32 | *** join/#brlcad rogier (n=rogier@16-65-dsl.ipact.nl) | |
| 15:24.39 | digitalfredy | brlcad: no te llego el ofrecimiento del archivo? |
| 15:25.21 | brlcad | nope |
| 15:25.34 | brlcad | "DCC no file offered by digitalfredy" |
| 15:25.42 | digitalfredy | brlcad: usemos ftp |
| 15:26.28 | brlcad | ahh.. if you're behind a router, DCC won't work for you |
| 15:26.43 | brlcad | reverse connection has to work on your IP |
| 15:27.03 | digitalfredy | not router |
| 15:27.12 | digitalfredy | i go direct to my ips |
| 15:27.21 | brlcad | you're on dsl.. there's some router there :) |
| 15:27.25 | digitalfredy | no |
| 15:27.29 | brlcad | er, not you.. |
| 15:27.38 | brlcad | that was rogier, just reading the wrong lines :) |
| 15:27.47 | digitalfredy | i have a single 64k rdsi |
| 15:27.47 | brlcad | maybe a firewall |
| 15:27.59 | digitalfredy | rdsi in englis is .. |
| 15:28.32 | digitalfredy | isdn |
| 15:28.44 | digitalfredy | red digital de servicios integrados |
| 15:28.47 | brlcad | ~ping 200.119.94.248 |
| 15:28.49 | ibot | pong 200.119.94.248 |
| 15:29.00 | brlcad | dunno then.. maybe your irc client |
| 15:30.02 | digitalfredy | can to be a problem in my client (gaim) instaling xchat |
| 15:30.19 | brlcad | just sent you a request |
| 15:30.37 | digitalfredy | yes |
| 15:31.09 | brlcad | that worked |
| 15:31.42 | digitalfredy | isntaling xchat 23% |
| 15:31.52 | brlcad | heh |
| 15:33.06 | digitalfredy | 75% |
| 15:36.07 | *** join/#brlcad digitalfredy_ (n=digitalf@200.119.94.248) | |
| 15:38.59 | digitalfredy_ | brlcad, you recibe the request? |
| 15:40.21 | digitalfredy_ | brlcad, ping |
| 15:43.12 | ``Erik | hehe, sean, http://qdb.us/59744 :) |
| 15:44.57 | *** part/#brlcad digitalfredy (n=digitalf@200.119.94.248) | |
| 15:57.04 | *** join/#brlcad rogier (n=rogier@16-65-dsl.ipact.nl) | |
| 16:09.11 | digitalfredy_ | brlcad, ping |
| 16:26.40 | brlcad | pong |
| 16:26.49 | brlcad | digitalfredy_: never recibe the request |
| 16:42.34 | digitalfredy_ | brlcad, recibe the request |
| 16:42.56 | *** join/#brlcad pier (n=pier@151.56.213.160) | |
| 16:44.34 | brlcad | todavia, no (adonde?) |
| 16:44.57 | digitalfredy_ | brlcad, |
| 16:45.58 | digitalfredy_ | digitalfredy_: never recibe the request |
| 16:45.58 | digitalfredy_ | --- Ofrece overview.html a brlcad |
| 16:45.58 | digitalfredy_ | <digitalfredy_> brlcad, recibe the request |
| 16:45.58 | digitalfredy_ | --> pier (n=pier@151.56.213.160) ha entrado en #brlcad |
| 16:45.58 | digitalfredy_ | <brlcad> todavia, no (adonde?) |
| 16:45.59 | digitalfredy_ | <digitalfredy_> brlcad, |
| 16:46.01 | digitalfredy_ | --- Ofrece overview.html a brlcad |
| 16:47.19 | brlcad | yep, never get the request here, which means it's being filtered somewhere .. it's a known problem for people behind NAT and/or firewalls, not sure what the problem is in this case since you say you're not |
| 16:50.19 | digitalfredy_ | brlcad, what is the begin year for the copyrigth in the doc? |
| 16:50.59 | brlcad | you're creating a substantial derivative work by translating to docbook, so this year |
| 16:51.44 | brlcad | before going open source, the documents actually hold no copyright claim |
| 16:54.37 | digitalfredy_ | but if the documet is gpl yes have copyright |
| 16:55.17 | digitalfredy_ | when are much pepole you see |
| 16:55.32 | brlcad | right |
| 16:55.39 | digitalfredy_ | (c) year principal autor and others |
| 16:55.50 | brlcad | that's what i mean about you creating a derivative work |
| 16:56.02 | brlcad | we do something similar for the source code |
| 16:56.49 | brlcad | the entire package presently has implicit copyright assignment to "U.S. Goverment" for direct contributions |
| 16:57.13 | brlcad | you could use that, or retain copyright of your own (since you're creating the derivative work) |
| 16:57.34 | brlcad | the 'original' authors cannot claim copyright at this point, they can only claim authorship |
| 16:57.59 | brlcad | as they were all u.s. government funded, public domain work |
| 16:58.08 | digitalfredy_ | put (c) U.S. Goverment and others ? |
| 16:58.23 | digitalfredy_ | haaa public domain is other history |
| 16:59.14 | digitalfredy_ | when y get the doc this is in public domain? |
| 16:59.34 | digitalfredy_ | if yes i can put a legal notice |
| 17:01.28 | brlcad | we can talk more about it in a little bit, I have to run out for a little while |
| 17:01.33 | brlcad | be back in an hour or so |
| 17:01.57 | digitalfredy_ | brlcad, ok |
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| 21:07.08 | digitalfredy | brlcad, ping |
| 21:08.17 | brlcad | pong |
| 21:08.38 | digitalfredy | hello |
| 21:09.29 | digitalfredy | i think to is best speak in spanis about the copyrigt in the documets |
| 21:09.55 | digitalfredy | is for can understand well |
| 21:11.12 | digitalfredy | brlcad, fine? |
| 21:12.31 | brlcad | no estoy seguro que lo puedo escribir tan bueno en espanol, pero lo tratare |
| 21:12.46 | digitalfredy | bueno |
| 21:13.26 | digitalfredy | me dices que los documentos tienen doble licencia |
| 21:15.34 | digitalfredy | cuales son las dos licencias? |
| 21:16.31 | digitalfredy | brlcad, can understand well? |
| 21:19.38 | digitalfredy | brlcad, ping |
| 21:21.06 | brlcad | GFDL o GPL |
| 21:21.18 | digitalfredy | ok |
| 21:21.36 | brlcad | y si, los dos necesitan copyright (como se dice copyright?) |
| 21:21.37 | digitalfredy | gfdl whitout ivarian sections |
| 21:21.46 | digitalfredy | asi |
| 21:21.51 | brlcad | heh |
| 21:21.52 | brlcad | ok |
| 21:22.30 | digitalfredy | befor the doc arent free |
| 21:22.49 | digitalfredy | but in the moment of chache always are questions |
| 21:23.24 | digitalfredy | yo sugiero esto |
| 21:23.47 | digitalfredy | en cada documeto colocamos el copyright asi: |
| 21:25.08 | digitalfredy | (c) year_of_firt_publication - year_of_change_to_opensource Army Research Laboratory |
| 21:26.20 | brlcad | depende en el documento |
| 21:26.37 | digitalfredy | explicame |
| 21:27.15 | brlcad | podemos hacerlo asi con el source code |
| 21:27.39 | brlcad | copyright was obtained on the entire body, and assigned to the government |
| 21:28.01 | brlcad | pero con los documentos, es un poco m?s complicado |
| 21:30.27 | digitalfredy | ? |
| 21:30.28 | brlcad | con los documentos, solo puedes obtener el copyright si hagas una modificaccion significante |
| 21:31.05 | brlcad | yo pienso que una conversion a docbook cualifica |
| 21:31.20 | brlcad | heh, damn italian slipping in |
| 21:31.44 | digitalfredy | what? |
| 21:33.29 | brlcad | los volumes I II III IV, etc como estan publicados son public domain (no tienen copyright) |
| 21:34.01 | brlcad | tu puedes venderlos asi mismo si quierias, o cambiarlos como te da la gana |
| 21:34.33 | brlcad | si hagas una modificaccion grande, tu puedes obtener un copyright a tu version |
| 21:35.03 | brlcad | con ese copyright, lo puedes hacer un "copyright assignment" a quien quieres |
| 21:35.17 | brlcad | por ejemplo, al U.S. Government |
| 21:36.02 | brlcad | el COPYING archivo en BRL-CAD manda que si lo vas a dar un cambio al proyecto que hagas el copyright assignment |
| 21:36.48 | brlcad | con el copyright, se puede usar el GPL/GFDL/Creative Commons, etc |
| 21:38.03 | digitalfredy | bueno ya tengo claro lo del copyright |
| 21:38.55 | digitalfredy | yo respeto mucho las obras de los otros |
| 21:39.02 | brlcad | tambien podemos mantener los documentos en el public domain |
| 21:39.28 | digitalfredy | brlcad, si ya tengo eso claro como el agua |
| 21:39.31 | brlcad | para mi, lo importante es que tenemos una version en docbook :) |
| 21:40.23 | brlcad | si, por supuesto |
| 21:40.30 | digitalfredy | en los vol III y IV estan escritos |
| 21:40.36 | brlcad | tambien tu contribuccion a convertirlo a docbook |
| 21:40.41 | digitalfredy | ok |
| 21:40.57 | digitalfredy | y dice las empresas y cargos |
| 21:41.29 | brlcad | los autores no cambian.. ser autor o no no significa copyright (porque empezo sin copyright) |
| 21:41.40 | digitalfredy | si |
| 21:42.52 | digitalfredy | tienes el .doc del overview con los nombres de los autores? |
| 21:42.57 | brlcad | i like to give credit to any contribution whenever possible for the work that is provided, and preserve that contribution |
| 21:43.10 | brlcad | quiza.. |
| 21:43.13 | brlcad | i'll look |
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| 16:48.00 | CIA-9 | BRL-CAD: 03twingy * 10brlcad/src/mged/ged.c: /dev/null should be in quotes, compiling with --disable-debug. |
| 16:56.39 | ``Erik | ooh, rsync of cvs repo's on sf, I likey |
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| 00:12.44 | Twingy | moderate drop in stocks today |
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| 01:58.38 | Twingy | all state is a rip off |
| 01:58.42 | Twingy | they want $70/mo more than geico for the same thing |
| 02:02.56 | brlcad | all hail the gecko |
| 02:03.20 | brlcad | (i.e. throw the lizard as far as possible) |
| 02:03.38 | Twingy | you fix those bugs yet? :) |
| 02:17.56 | brlcad | what bugs? the librt thing? |
| 02:18.57 | brlcad | that's been in there since I first compiled on freebsd amd64 iirc, looked entirely like a bug in gcc's optimizer or the threading library |
| 02:19.10 | Twingy | hrm |
| 02:19.33 | brlcad | if you walk through it in gdb, the stack just goes "poof" mid computation (if you can keep gdb from crashing itself) |
| 02:19.47 | brlcad | i never got to try a different threading library |
| 02:20.47 | brlcad | there was a thread on the freebsd bugs mailing list about a threading bug related to amd64 and crashes inside system libraries (which is where the stack was going poof, sprintf and similar funcs) |
| 02:21.40 | brlcad | this was like 8-12 months ago when first got access to such a configuration iirc |
| 02:23.24 | brlcad | gdb was almost useless, the only next step I can think of outside of trying different threading library would be to valgrind a simple raytrace and make sure the errors are cleaned up (which has never been done) |
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| 08:51.32 | sehh | hey people |
| 08:51.54 | sehh | is brlcad SMP-aware (multi-threaded, etc)? |
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| 09:10.50 | brlcad | meh |
| 09:10.53 | brlcad | 'yes' |
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| 15:51.31 | Servo888 | Such a channel does exist... |
| 15:57.31 | brlcad | heh |
| 15:58.33 | brlcad | not only does it exist, it's the primary or at least preferred dev forum |
| 15:58.42 | Servo888 | yah - I didn't know there were any 'developed' 3d cad programs for linux... |
| 15:58.55 | Servo888 | I'm building it now to see what this is all about |
| 16:01.04 | brlcad | yeah, brl-cad is the only solid modeling system in production-use available as open source |
| 16:02.43 | brlcad | there are modelers, some decent renderers, but no cad systems that aren't in their infancy or are academic pet projects, etc |
| 16:31.28 | brlcad | ~spell tessellation |
| 16:33.21 | CIA-9 | BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/NEWS: s/tesselation/tessellation/ typo. add emphasis to the extent of John's dxf importer enhancements |
| 16:35.05 | Servo888 | Have a quick question... I just finished building brlcad, but can't find the executable... It should be /usr/brlcad/x86_64 - but it's empty. |
| 16:35.39 | brlcad | what steps did you take? |
| 16:35.56 | Servo888 | I grabbed a tar ball from sourceforge... |
| 16:35.59 | Servo888 | the ran ./configure |
| 16:36.02 | ``Erik | dagnabbit, stupid car |
| 16:36.03 | Servo888 | and make / make install |
| 16:36.13 | brlcad | there's also not a single exec, there are hundreds.. :) |
| 16:36.15 | Servo888 | You know - I didn't use --prefix= though |
| 16:36.27 | Servo888 | Well the bin directory is full of them. |
| 16:36.29 | brlcad | if you didn't use prefix, it should be just /usr/brlcad |
| 16:36.45 | brlcad | what's in /usr/brlcad? |
| 16:36.45 | Servo888 | yah it's there |
| 16:36.52 | Servo888 | bin include lib man share |
| 16:36.56 | brlcad | ah |
| 16:37.03 | brlcad | ls -la /usr/brlcad/bin |
| 16:37.27 | brlcad | should see lots of apps |
| 16:37.33 | Servo888 | yah lots |
| 16:37.34 | brlcad | 406 or so |
| 16:37.45 | brlcad | add /usr/brlcad/bin to your path |
| 16:37.59 | brlcad | if you want a good place to start, most start with the GUI modeler |
| 16:38.10 | brlcad | it's called 'mged' |
| 16:38.27 | Servo888 | yah gui modeler is fine - but mged is not there. |
| 16:38.45 | brlcad | ls -al /usr/brlcad/bin/mged ? |
| 16:39.08 | Servo888 | hmm wait it's there |
| 16:39.15 | Servo888 | one sec |
| 16:39.19 | brlcad | have to add /usr/brlcad/bin to your path :) |
| 16:39.29 | brlcad | export PATH=/usr/brlcad/bin:$PATH if you use bash |
| 16:39.33 | Servo888 | ok |
| 16:39.49 | ``Erik | any old posix style shell, actually... bsh, ash, ksh, pdksh, ... |
| 16:39.50 | Servo888 | Ok there we go |
| 16:40.05 | brlcad | mged is not designed to be discoverable so you know, it requires training |
| 16:40.16 | ``Erik | sean, fix libbu on amd64/fbsd. |
| 16:40.19 | brlcad | there is pretty extensive documentation on the website: http://brlcad.org |
| 16:40.34 | Servo888 | Yah I found that - I'll go through it. |
| 16:40.35 | brlcad | ``Erik: what part? |
| 16:40.36 | ``Erik | bitv is all whacked out |
| 16:40.53 | ``Erik | rt havoc and it seg's, optimized or not |
| 16:41.20 | ``Erik | (I think it's bitv, it thrashes the stack a little) |
| 16:42.32 | brlcad | I debugged stack stomping on amd64/fbsd a year ago and all fingers pointed at a thread library bug |
| 16:42.43 | brlcad | there was a fbsd bug trail about it too |
| 16:42.55 | ``Erik | hrm, yeah, uhm, kse? or thr? |
| 16:43.04 | brlcad | thr iirc |
| 16:43.14 | ``Erik | did you try kse? |
| 16:43.18 | brlcad | nope |
| 16:43.26 | ``Erik | at the office? |
| 16:43.28 | ``Erik | <-- is rdo today |
| 16:43.45 | brlcad | in fact, I think the build will default to -pthread still too |
| 16:43.58 | brlcad | though it can be trivially overridden |
| 16:44.11 | ``Erik | meh, -pthread is old, died during the 5 run iirc |
| 16:44.14 | ``Erik | mebbe at 50 |
| 16:44.43 | brlcad | my 5.2 still needs it |
| 16:44.58 | ``Erik | fbsd can do runtime lib remapping, check out /etc/libmap.conf and man libmap.conf |
| 16:45.14 | ``Erik | ok, mebbe it was 53 or 54 *shrug* I don't recall :) I've been 6 and 7 for a while now |
| 16:45.40 | brlcad | i was actually hoping the problem would just go away with a upgrade to 6, which i think Twingy did |
| 16:46.12 | ``Erik | 6.0 stable is what I'm seeing it on (and I did that to that machine), I intend to upgrade 'em all to 61 very soon |
| 16:46.12 | ``Erik | like this week |
| 16:46.20 | ``Erik | I have a couple already on 6.1 |
| 16:46.21 | brlcad | regardless, -pthread still just picks up thr on the newer systems iirc, no? |
| 16:46.54 | ``Erik | um, it picks up pthread, which is mapped... mebbe thr, mebbe kse, mebbe old userland crap, I d'no |
| 16:47.10 | brlcad | by default, I think it's thr |
| 16:47.44 | brlcad | yeah, set to libthr |
| 16:48.03 | ``Erik | anywho, THAT machine seg's on the bitv stuff, which makes the meat&potatoes crap we do not work on the other machine, which means we can't be pushing the diskless cluster approach at this moment |
| 16:48.30 | ``Erik | and I want the donut eaters using the cluster, darnit :D |
| 16:49.40 | ``Erik | mebbe I'll explore that tomorrow :-/ |
| 16:49.41 | brlcad | it very well could be that there is some obscure bug being provoked, but it did look entirely threading related last time I tried debugging it |
| 16:49.52 | brlcad | and gdb was being a bitch |
| 16:50.00 | brlcad | crashed a lot |
| 16:50.23 | ``Erik | are you gonna be in office tomorrow? |
| 16:51.31 | ``Erik | or available via irc? I might have some stupid "how do I run rt like X" questions :D |
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| 17:09.22 | brlcad | i'm always on irc :P |
| 17:10.35 | brlcad | ``Erik: a first easy test is to compile the entire package with parallelism disabled, set -UPARALLEL or edit include/machine.h |
| 17:10.52 | brlcad | to see if it's even threading provoked |
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| 17:56.44 | ar3a51 | Hi |
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| 18:00.27 | ar3a51 | sbd here? |
| 18:19.03 | brlcad | heh |
| 18:19.41 | CIA-9 | BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/libbu/color.c: duplicate defines for RED/GRN/BLU |
| 18:22.23 | brlcad | ibot: onjoin ar3a51 ar3a51: you have to wait more than a minute if you expect/want anyone to answer you.. |
| 18:22.23 | ibot | brlcad: ok |
| 18:43.20 | CIA-9 | BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/configure.ac: typo, should have been profile not debug -- logic is still wrong though, needs to be redone for --enable-profile |
| 18:53.09 | pier | brlcad: Phew! Capther 3 done.. Don't call me lazy :) as I've been very busy lately. Deserve a good supper now. |
| 18:53.56 | brlcad | pier: hehehe |
| 18:54.01 | brlcad | I'd do no such thing! |
| 18:54.16 | brlcad | that's a major effort, I'll be making lots of noise about it :) |
| 19:01.52 | ``Erik | given that it's a volunteer effort, anything at all you do is well above and beyond the normal mere mortal. :) |
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| 19:54.30 | pier | Ciao a tutti... nite! |
| 20:03.01 | CIA-9 | BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/mged/cmd.c: jim monte noticed that using a vls here was unnecessary for the Tcl_LinkVar'ing of glob_compat_mode and output_as_return |
| 20:19.49 | CIA-9 | BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/ (5 files in 2 dirs): ugh, removed horrible usage of vls strings for things that can just be string constants. also takes care of a memory leak as the vls was never released. thanks to jim monte for noticing the problem. |
| 22:55.05 | ``Erik | "we're doing a gig tonight to benefit the victems of last nights gig" |
| 23:18.13 | pra5ad | mmm fat refund from uncle sam |
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| 19:03.53 | learner | mmm |
| 19:23.00 | ``Erik | o.O |
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| 01:07.38 | *** topic/#brlcad is http://brlcad.org/ || BRL-CAD is now Free Software! || Release 7.8.0 is Posted! | |
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| 02:36.50 | PackElend | is any ACAD expert there? |
| 02:43.04 | PackElend | ? |
| 03:02.39 | PackElend | anybody there? |
| 12:29.23 | ``Erik | <PROTECTED> |
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| 12:45.50 | archivist | fancy someone looking for an etch-a-sketch expert in here |
| 13:33.25 | learner | heh |
| 13:33.50 | learner | archivist: depending on who that was, ACAD != AutoCAD |
| 13:34.15 | learner | but yeah, either way :) |
| 13:45.26 | archivist | I was thinking AutoCAD ! |
| 14:16.31 | learner | by far more popular, unless you work for GM or defense .. then it depends |
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| 18:44.14 | brlcad | woot, BRL-CAD Birds of a Feather at Siggraph is finalized |
| 18:45.14 | archivist | but the other side of the pond for me |
| 18:46.53 | brlcad | just a short jump and you're there |
| 18:47.32 | archivist | 3000 miles + |
| 18:48.24 | brlcad | teensie hop |
| 18:49.53 | archivist | came accross for the Dayton hamfest many years ago |
| 18:51.36 | brlcad | heh, you'll fly over for ham.. but not a world-class conference and a CAD get together :) |
| 18:54.31 | archivist | I had the money then :( |
| 19:20.23 | brlcad | and ham apparently |
| 19:26.24 | archivist | ham=radio amateur , not currently licensed |
| 19:27.40 | brlcad | :) |
| 19:28.05 | brlcad | i would have |
| 19:28.37 | archivist | food doesnt excite me much |
| 19:29.02 | archivist | a grilled chees in a wendys will do me |
| 19:31.03 | archivist | or a dunkin donut (except for the fat policeman that dumps his polished 45 on the table) |
| 19:34.24 | brlcad | hmm.. i don't think wendy's serves grilled cheese here.. |
| 19:36.14 | archivist | bah wont come then |
| 19:36.25 | brlcad | hehe |
| 19:37.22 | archivist | would love to though and to go to the second hand test gear shops in silicon valley |
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| 20:42.00 | IriX64 | REGISTER passpass |
| 20:57.59 | brlcad | heh |
| 20:58.05 | brlcad | silly torontonians |
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| 02:08.08 | pra5ad | so do we get ARL shirts for siggraph? or are we too poor |
| 02:09.59 | brlcad | wth are you talking about |
| 02:10.04 | brlcad | brl-cad shirts, sure |
| 02:38.12 | justin__ | pra5ad, how's the I-fund doing :) |
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| 14:31.58 | CIA-9 | BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/rt/worker.c: get rid of the ifdef linux, init some vars used by USE_FORKED_THREADS |
| 15:23.56 | CIA-9 | BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/TODO: merge old and new tops behavior |
| 16:16.05 | CIA-9 | BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/mged/ged.c: make sure the curr_dm_list isn't null before trying to close the dm |
| 17:06.48 | *** join/#brlcad IriX64 (n=Hagar@toronto-HSE-ppp4305531.sympatico.ca) | |
| 17:07.24 | IriX64 | dudes...irix build on ftp 192.168.1.108 and dont laff because thats a local ip address. |
| 17:08.20 | brlcad | IriX64: you have to hang around for more than a few minutes at a time if you want anyone to ever respond.. ;) |
| 17:08.38 | IriX64 | thanks i will. ;) |
| 17:08.56 | IriX64 | version 7.8.0 though. |
| 17:08.57 | brlcad | also, telling us your "local" ip address is useless -- there's no way to connect to that |
| 17:09.10 | IriX64 | why i connerct to it. |
| 17:09.15 | IriX64 | connect |
| 17:09.24 | brlcad | because you're on that subnet, it's a private subnet |
| 17:09.31 | IriX64 | i have ways ;) |
| 17:09.48 | brlcad | it's not a mystery, just how IP works |
| 17:09.50 | IriX64 | says you :) |
| 17:10.08 | brlcad | says the tcp/ip rfc actually |
| 17:10.58 | brlcad | if you don't know your public IP address, visit http://whatismyip.com .. it can tell you there |
| 17:11.59 | IriX64 | lets do it your way, try ftp 69.159.14.171 |
| 17:12.04 | brlcad | anyone connecting to you will only be able to connect to you via that address, and any firewall or router configuration you have in between will have to permit it |
| 17:12.11 | brlcad | ~ping 69.159.14.171 |
| 17:12.19 | ibot | pong 69.159.14.171 |
| 17:16.04 | IriX64 | what platforms *don't you support? |
| 17:16.58 | brlcad | no response from an ftp server on that address |
| 17:17.06 | IriX64 | huh? |
| 17:17.11 | brlcad | there's not many platforms not supported |
| 17:17.25 | brlcad | there is just limited resources to make binaries for all of them all the time |
| 17:17.50 | IriX64 | what binaries would you like, pick one ill work on it. |
| 17:18.35 | brlcad | the list of platforms on http://sf.net/projects/brlcad are the primaries -- you can see versions that are released for each |
| 17:18.51 | brlcad | if there is a platform listed that is not 7.8.0, then that would be one to potentially work on |
| 17:19.08 | brlcad | (except for Mac OS X, it's not updated yet but it has a specific release process) |
| 17:19.23 | IriX64 | first i better get my ftp working so i can give it to you. |
| 17:21.26 | brlcad | probably better, you can upload the binary yourself to ftp.brlcad.org to the incoming directory |
| 17:21.43 | brlcad | that will be much faster |
| 17:21.55 | IriX64 | you have an incoming, i did not know that sorry. |
| 17:22.15 | brlcad | no problem, it's not publicized |
| 17:22.44 | IriX64 | thanks. |
| 17:24.38 | IriX64 | connection closed by remote host. |
| 17:26.55 | brlcad | anonymous only |
| 17:27.43 | IriX64 | doesn't even give the login prompt, just closes. |
| 17:28.34 | IriX64 | trying to give you sparc-sunos 7.8 and irix 7.8 |
| 17:30.56 | IriX64 | ill go start work on mac OS X m68020 will be architecure |
| 17:31.04 | IriX64 | chow all |
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| 19:15.01 | IriX64 | regards once again. |
| 19:15.32 | IriX64 | on sourceforge you have solaris at 7.4 is that sparc solaris or x86? |
| 19:18.02 | IriX64 | and your ftp server doesn't connect. |
| 19:21.18 | IriX64 | ill go with sparc-sun-solaris |
| 19:24.56 | IriX64 | work to do, i'll be back. |
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| 20:59.16 | IriX64 | try ftp to 200.200.200.201. |
| 21:01.35 | IriX64 | apple-macosx is there. |
| 21:01.41 | IriX64 | version 7.8 |
| 21:03.12 | IriX64 | anonymous login allowed, i couldnt get connected to your ftp site. |
| 21:07.25 | brlcad | ~ping 200.200.200.201 |
| 21:07.34 | ibot | pong 200.200.200.201 |
| 21:08.18 | brlcad | no ftp server responding on port 21 |
| 21:08.36 | brlcad | ~nslookup ftp.brlcad.org |
| 21:08.52 | brlcad | try connecting via ftp to that IP address |
| 21:09.00 | IriX64 | thankyou |
| 21:10.04 | IriX64 | nothing. |
| 21:10.26 | brlcad | can you browse to http://ftp.brlcad.org ? |
| 21:11.21 | IriX64 | no and shouldnt that be ftp://ftp.brlcad.org? |
| 21:11.56 | brlcad | no, i meant in a web browser |
| 21:12.03 | IriX64 | either way. zilch |
| 21:12.08 | brlcad | if you can't reach it in a web browser, there's something else wrong |
| 21:12.41 | IriX64 | dunno but i tried and it failed. |
| 21:13.05 | brlcad | ~nslookup toronto-HSE-ppp4306588.sympatico.ca |
| 21:13.18 | brlcad | is that the IP address you are browsing from? |
| 21:13.27 | IriX64 | she built and installed just a sec while i tar it. |
| 21:13.37 | IriX64 | yes thats my address i think. |
| 21:15.03 | IriX64 | shes tarring. |
| 21:15.36 | brlcad | you're not on a block list |
| 21:15.52 | IriX64 | if i am i don't know about it. |
| 21:15.57 | brlcad | on this end at least, do you have a firewall or proxy that might be preventing your ability to get out? |
| 21:16.13 | IriX64 | everything else works. |
| 21:16.22 | IriX64 | just a sec gonna try hobbes. |
| 21:17.53 | IriX64 | not your problem i cant even connect via ftp to hobbes. |
| 21:18.09 | IriX64 | thankyou tho |
| 21:20.29 | IriX64 | soons this finishes tarring ill investigate my problem, do you allow uploads to incoming on ftp.brlcad.org or do i have to be on some sort of list? |
| 21:22.14 | IriX64 | gonna go have a smoke, bbiab. |
| 21:32.35 | IriX64 | thats my attempt at sparc-solaris, gonna have a go at x86-solaris, but whats the use if i cant get them to you. |
| 21:32.57 | IriX64 | make distclean |
| 21:33.04 | IriX64 | crap, sorry. |
| 21:47.16 | brlcad | there's no list, it's open to the public |
| 21:48.21 | IriX64 | thank you if i ever get on i have several things for you. |
| 22:01.56 | IriX64 | back to work on it, see you later and thanks for the help. |
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| 23:58.55 | IriX64 | build successfull. |
| 23:59.08 | IriX64 | still cant get it to you though. |
| 23:59.32 | IriX64 | try ftp 200.105.200.105 i was stealing someone elses ip before. |
| 00:02.47 | IriX64 | or maybe you'll allow a dcc send, i'd dearly like these files to see the light of day. |
| 00:10.48 | IriX64 | same old same old, can't get anybody to take me seriously. |
| 00:14.23 | IriX64 | ill visit later. |
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| 15:12.20 | CIA-9 | BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/mged/attach.c: init curr_dm_list to null |
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| 17:31.12 | IriX64 | is this forum for programming, or user questions? |
| 17:32.35 | archivist | depends whos here to answer |
| 17:33.00 | IriX64 | so its safe to say its a mixed forum? |
| 17:35.16 | archivist | yes |
| 17:35.24 | IriX64 | make install |
| 17:35.38 | IriX64 | duh. |
| 17:36.47 | IriX64 | be back later. |
| 17:47.41 | brlcad | he's a rather odd fellow |
| 17:55.56 | ``Erik | must be canadian |
| 19:07.17 | brlcad | yep |
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| 18:42.02 | ``Erik | How do you keep a programmer in the shower all day? Give him (or her) a bottle of shampoo which says "lather, rinse, repeat." |
| 18:42.38 | archivist | sounds liks a slashdot joke |
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| 23:12.15 | ``Erik | pra5ad: yeah |
| 23:16.58 | pra5ad | when |
| 23:17.12 | pra5ad | 9am @ post theater? |
| 23:20.20 | ``Erik | ja |
| 23:31.52 | pra5ad | gah brlcad cvsroot changed |
| 23:32.30 | pra5ad | should start reading the sf.net emails |
| 23:32.32 | pra5ad | :\ |
| 23:32.38 | brlcad | probably |
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| 01:36.38 | ``Erik | bah, stupid nickserv |
| 01:41.42 | Twingy | today is a glorious day |
| 02:00.46 | brlcad | ``Erik: ping |
| 02:01.58 | brlcad | a particular file server, one that wm is using right now preparing for a major presentation tomorrow, just disappeared |
| 02:03.12 | Twingy | I can access it |
| 02:03.21 | brlcad | it just returned.. |
| 02:03.37 | Twingy | it also has an uptime of 3 minutes |
| 02:03.45 | brlcad | yeah, just noticed |
| 02:03.46 | Twingy | it must have kernel panic'd |
| 02:04.26 | brlcad | my phone isn't ringing, so hopefully he didn't notice |
| 02:04.42 | Twingy | I wonder if samba is doing that |
| 02:04.52 | Twingy | I don't trust it |
| 02:05.10 | ``Erik | heh |
| 02:05.13 | brlcad | possibly, though it's always a kernels fault to panic :) |
| 02:05.28 | Twingy | samba keeps sliping it a micky |
| 02:05.36 | ``Erik | is it working? |
| 02:05.43 | brlcad | it's back up at least |
| 02:05.46 | Twingy | we just lost like 4 months of uptime |
| 02:06.02 | ``Erik | it was an update I scheduled to happen WAY AFTER ANYONE SHOULD BE IN THE OFFICE |
| 02:06.04 | ``Erik | o.O |
| 02:06.10 | Twingy | oh |
| 02:06.11 | ``Erik | it's now running 6.1 with updated ports |
| 02:06.35 | Twingy | I said it once, but I recommend emails to the BND sysadmins when a machine gets upgraded or rebooted |
| 02:06.36 | brlcad | ``Erik: tell that to wm tomorrow, i'm sure he'll have choice words for you |
| 02:06.50 | ``Erik | I'd raise a stink about wm not alerting certain sysadmins when they require availability outside of business hours |
| 02:07.01 | ``Erik | but *shrug* I didn't notify people, so *shrug* |
| 02:07.03 | brlcad | supposed to be the other way around :P |
| 02:07.10 | ``Erik | heh |
| 02:07.12 | Twingy | business hours is 24/7 :) |
| 02:07.14 | ``Erik | dude, 10pm? |
| 02:07.40 | brlcad | major deal ma?ana |
| 02:07.45 | ``Erik | not according to the opm policies, twingy, no one should be in that office after 6pm |
| 02:08.02 | Twingy | aruge that to chuck and bill :) |
| 02:08.07 | Twingy | *argue |
| 02:08.13 | ``Erik | anyways, *shrug* if bill and chuck wig out, I'll deal with 'em tomorrie |
| 02:09.11 | Twingy | pjt was also trying to get PP slides off it after opm hours yesterday |
| 02:09.27 | ``Erik | stupid bustedass nickserv, not letting me privmsg |
| 02:09.55 | ``Erik | trying? it had issues yesterday? |
| 02:10.21 | Twingy | he forgot to put on laptop before he left for NM |
| 02:10.35 | ``Erik | heh |
| 02:10.45 | ``Erik | it had issues? |
| 02:10.53 | Twingy | no, but if it had been tonight... |
| 02:11.07 | brlcad | sure takes a hell of a lot longer to encode 43200 frames of video than it does 360 |
| 02:11.27 | ``Erik | bout 120x the time? |
| 02:11.42 | brlcad | much worse |
| 02:11.57 | brlcad | 360 was almost instant, less than a second |
| 02:12.01 | Twingy | 5 hours till pay day |
| 02:12.03 | ``Erik | erm, 43200/360 = 120 |
| 02:12.04 | ``Erik | o.O |
| 02:12.18 | ``Erik | is that what's clobbering that old linux machine? |
| 02:12.22 | ``Erik | the big one? |
| 02:12.23 | Twingy | I might have to go out for lunch tomorrow |
| 02:12.28 | brlcad | nah, i'm doing that all local |
| 02:12.36 | brlcad | don't want nfs to slow it down |
| 02:12.42 | ``Erik | SOMEONE is beating that machine like you wouldn't believe |
| 02:12.51 | Twingy | post theater at 9am tomorrow? |
| 02:12.56 | ``Erik | ja |
| 02:13.03 | Twingy | !@#$@ |
| 02:13.06 | ``Erik | 2 hours of hurrrrr |
| 02:13.19 | Twingy | @#$#%!%#!@#^ |
| 02:14.02 | Twingy | I think you should do that on 'vi' |
| 02:14.23 | Twingy | *meow* |
| 02:15.35 | Twingy | I did some welding tonight |
| 02:15.49 | Twingy | I think that 20 amp circuit made the difference |
| 02:15.53 | ``Erik | heh, with the arcwelder? |
| 02:15.56 | Twingy | yes |
| 02:16.03 | Twingy | much improved over last time |
| 02:16.06 | ``Erik | cool |
| 02:16.13 | Twingy | last time I was on a 15 amp circuit |
| 02:16.25 | Twingy | iirc |
| 02:16.36 | Twingy | I welded two L brackets together |
| 02:16.52 | Twingy | I can jump on it |
| 02:16.57 | Twingy | and drop it on the concrete |
| 02:17.45 | Twingy | I ground the welds and painted |
| 02:17.55 | Twingy | all in about 10 minutes |
| 02:18.12 | Twingy | not the prettiest thing, but for 10 minutes it's not bad |
| 02:18.12 | ``Erik | cool beans |
| 02:18.21 | ``Erik | pics? |
| 02:18.25 | Twingy | I'll bring it in |
| 02:18.42 | Twingy | see if I can get sean to break it |
| 02:18.45 | ``Erik | heh |
| 02:18.56 | ``Erik | <-- wonders how clean your pattern is :D |
| 02:19.07 | Twingy | not very |
| 02:19.18 | Twingy | it's flat and it's strong |
| 02:19.38 | Twingy | once I start doing this on a bench |
| 02:19.42 | Twingy | instead of hunched over on the floor |
| 02:19.48 | Twingy | I can get a little better control |
| 02:20.37 | ``Erik | if it does the job, it does the job *shrug* |
| 02:21.05 | Twingy | I need an air grinder |
| 02:22.40 | ``Erik | heh, dremel aint' enough for the inside? :D |
| 02:23.00 | Twingy | pfft |
| 02:23.03 | Twingy | dremel is a toy |
| 02:23.06 | ``Erik | you have a regular grinder, right? the ones we used in metal shop, we had a grind wheel on one side and a wire wheel on the other |
| 02:23.17 | ``Erik | with heavy shields on both sides |
| 02:23.22 | Twingy | 2 aluminum oxide wheels |
| 02:23.32 | Twingy | but not designed to fit such an obtuse shape on the wheel |
| 02:23.36 | Twingy | with the cowling on it |
| 02:23.41 | ``Erik | right, the inside :D |
| 02:24.21 | ``Erik | beer good *grunt* |
| 02:25.18 | Twingy | http://www.grizzly.com/products/g5785 |
| 02:26.37 | Twingy | http://www.grizzly.com/products/h0591 |
| 02:26.43 | Twingy | that micro grinder is sexy |
| 02:27.01 | Twingy | 56,000 RPM |
| 02:29.27 | ``Erik | http://www.grizzly.com/products/G1090 and slap a wire wheel on one side, dude |
| 02:30.06 | Twingy | I have the 8" version of that |
| 02:30.23 | Twingy | that bracket is bigger than the gap |
| 02:30.36 | Twingy | it doesn't fit in there quite well |
| 02:30.44 | Twingy | you have to bust off the cowling |
| 02:30.49 | ``Erik | take off the lower shelf? |
| 02:30.54 | Twingy | that would work |
| 02:31.03 | Twingy | but silly every time you want to do something |
| 02:31.07 | Twingy | a hand grinder is ideal |
| 02:31.44 | Twingy | I'm going to add another 4 feet onto my work bench I think |
| 02:32.17 | Twingy | or wait until I build a work shed out back |
| 02:35.33 | Twingy | looks like I'll ride scooter to work monday |
| 02:35.41 | Twingy | helmet arrives tomorrow |
| 02:37.29 | ``Erik | um |
| 02:37.35 | ``Erik | monday is a holiday |
| 02:37.40 | ``Erik | ... |
| 02:37.56 | Twingy | tuesday then |
| 02:38.00 | ``Erik | I mean, you can ride your scooter in if you want, but, ... |
| 02:38.00 | ``Erik | :D |
| 02:38.12 | Twingy | I think my mom will be here monday |
| 02:38.18 | ``Erik | why not friday? work at home? |
| 02:38.25 | Twingy | so I'm sure she'll remind me not to goto work |
| 02:38.30 | Twingy | telework |
| 02:39.00 | ``Erik | I'm productive. o.O |
| 02:40.44 | Twingy | how's the CASE? |
| 02:41.13 | ``Erik | heh |
| 02:43.16 | Twingy | break time |
| 03:03.16 | pra5ad | ok.. Lost finale |
| 03:03.19 | pra5ad | so very confused |
| 03:37.09 | scanf | can I create assiciative ISO standard drawings from precise hybrid geometry models entirely with brlcad |
| 03:37.13 | scanf | ? |
| 03:38.03 | scanf | s/assiciative/associative/ |
| 03:40.52 | scanf | I wonder if anyone here even knows what that meant... |
| 03:49.42 | Twingy | the great thing about standards is there's so many to choose from |
| 03:56.37 | scanf | I'll remind the customer of that point. |
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| 06:26.56 | scanf | ok, thanks... I think I know what I wanted to find out. |
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| 12:25.23 | brlcad | g'morning rogier |
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| 15:47.08 | roshambo | who knows how to work oed |
| 15:48.54 | roshambo | When i'm using mged, and go to the Edit menu, and do Matrix selection... |
| 15:49.12 | brlcad | it's basically the command line version of doing that in the gui |
| 15:49.27 | roshambo | right, i'm getting to the question |
| 15:49.50 | brlcad | just how in matrix edit, you have to select the combination/path, and then select the "leaf" -- you have to specify two sides of a path for oed |
| 15:50.03 | roshambo | when i finally select my region, where everything is illuminated, the path is listed as /Foo.r/__MATRIX__/blah.c/foo.s |
| 15:50.34 | roshambo | now how to do the same with oed |
| 15:51.05 | roshambo | anything with __MATRIX__ gets rejected |
| 15:51.26 | roshambo | so i only end up illuminating blah.c/foos by invoking oed Foo.r blah.c/foo.s |
| 15:51.33 | brlcad | yeah, __MATRIX__ is just letting you know where the matrix is going |
| 15:51.40 | brlcad | doesn't really have anything to do with the path |
| 15:51.41 | brlcad | HOWEVER |
| 15:51.57 | brlcad | the left hand and right hand paths are listed to the left and right |
| 15:52.07 | brlcad | and oed wants to know the lhs and rhs |
| 15:52.17 | brlcad | "left hand side", etc |
| 15:52.30 | brlcad | so: oed /Foo.r blah.c/foo.s |
| 15:52.43 | brlcad | will apply a matrix on blah.c in Foo.r |
| 15:53.29 | brlcad | also, just for convenience, the command line "reject" and "accept" commands might be of use the more you get into command line editing |
| 15:53.54 | roshambo | i get that, but that only illuminates foo.s, not all of Foo.r |
| 15:55.03 | brlcad | if you want to apply a matrix over Foo.r, you'd have to put Foo.r on the right hand side |
| 15:55.12 | brlcad | i.e. oed / Foo.r/blah.c/foo.s |
| 15:55.40 | roshambo | trying now |
| 15:55.51 | brlcad | similarly, to get foo.s, oed /Foo.r/blah.c foo.s |
| 15:56.09 | brlcad | just depends on exactly what you want to transform/rotate/etc |
| 15:56.16 | roshambo | thanks a bunch |
| 15:56.19 | brlcad | no problem |
| 16:41.21 | ``Erik | *belch* |
| 17:08.06 | archivist | fart |
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| 18:32.13 | brlcad | heh |
| 18:34.54 | archivist | delightful children |
| 19:00.37 | pier | Chapter four done :) |
| 19:00.56 | pier | gonna end this up by the end of the millenium |
| 19:01.12 | archivist | or die first |
| 19:01.40 | pier | ;) |
| 19:02.08 | pier | I simply can't... unless tome two is completed :) |
| 19:56.41 | brlcad | :) |
| 19:57.03 | brlcad | sweet |
| 20:32.31 | pier | notte a tutti :0 |
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| 18:03.19 | ``Erik | heh, interesting nick o.O |
| 18:06.12 | Twingy | hmm |
| 18:06.24 | ``Erik | 'sup, twiggly? |
| 18:06.33 | Twingy | getting ready to release isst as beta |
| 18:07.01 | Twingy | just finishing up some pango stuff |
| 18:07.51 | Twingy | then I'll check it into cvs on forge |
| 18:08.20 | Twingy | damn it's humid out |
| 18:08.52 | Twingy | oh, read this real quick and tell me what you think |
| 18:09.21 | Twingy | http://www.fedsmith.com/articles/articles.showarticle.db.php?intArticleID=740 |
| 18:09.35 | Twingy | that's 3.1% for all fed employees right? |
| 18:11.58 | Twingy | $XX,XXX - Item 12A 2005 Base Pay x 2.10% general increase($Y,YYY) |
| 18:11.58 | Twingy | $ZZ,ZZZ - Item 20A 2006 Base Pay ($XX,XXX + $Y,YYY) |
| 18:11.58 | Twingy | $WW,WWW - Item 20B 2006 Base Pay x .2000 staffing supplement |
| 18:11.58 | Twingy | <PROTECTED> |
| 18:11.58 | Twingy | $GG,GGG - Item 20/20C (total of Items 20A + 20B) |
| 18:11.59 | Twingy | <PROTECTED> |
| 18:12.28 | Twingy | that 2.1% seems... wrong |
| 18:16.37 | Twingy | W and N are the same |
| 18:31.21 | Twingy | http://de.fishki.net/pics9/podbor82_09.jpg |
| 18:32.26 | archivist | kitten "Hey thats my mum your eating!" |
| 18:33.46 | andr34s | that is incredibly funny |
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| 23:43.32 | *** topic/#brlcad is http://brlcad.org/ || BRL-CAD is now Free Software! || Release 7.8.0 is Posted! | |
| 01:31.58 | Twingy | ...and back to isst |
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| 09:51.09 | roshambo | i'm running Win2k, and the mged command window is not letting me copy and paste outside, any help? |
| 09:51.30 | roshambo | (i can't paste to notepad for example) |
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| 18:07.15 | IriX64 | want a chuckle? do a /ver on me. |
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| 13:12.28 | CIA-9 | BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/COPYING: |
| 13:12.28 | CIA-9 | BRL-CAD: make it more clear that the package as a unified work is GPL though separate |
| 13:12.28 | CIA-9 | BRL-CAD: portions of the package are released under different licenses. refer to the |
| 13:12.28 | CIA-9 | BRL-CAD: development control structure and refer to HACKING. provide a point of contact. |
| 13:21.59 | CIA-9 | BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/HACKING: |
| 13:21.59 | CIA-9 | BRL-CAD: add a new section on developer responsibilities outlining what is expected of |
| 13:21.59 | CIA-9 | BRL-CAD: them. add details on header organization, usage of the K&R indentation style |
| 13:21.59 | CIA-9 | BRL-CAD: (aka java/gnu style), and routines in libbu that should be used for portability |
| 13:21.59 | CIA-9 | BRL-CAD: reasons. more on the coding style in general. |
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| 22:06.45 | pra5ad | sigh.. |
| 22:09.38 | ``Erik | O.o |
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| 17:34.38 | ``Erik | never pull the cord on a self-inflating raft while in a phone booth. |
| 19:07.42 | *** join/#brlcad digitalfredy (n=digitalf@200.71.62.161) | |
| 19:20.47 | brlcad | that's good advice |
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| 22:08.54 | justin_ | I have good advice |
| 22:09.10 | Twingy | Never ask an officer to make a decision. |
| 22:09.35 | Twingy | It's like telling a windows machine not to crash. |
| 22:24.24 | ``Erik | hah |
| 00:37.52 | Twingy | All aboot the pentium's werd |
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| 12:51.47 | CIA-9 | BRL-CAD: 03bob1961 * 10brlcad/src/tclscripts/archer/Archer.tcl: Mods to remove the expand button when in "Basic" mode. There's also a minor tweak of the aboutDialog's size. |
| 12:57.55 | CIA-9 | BRL-CAD: 03d_rossberg * 10brlcad/src/librt/db_open.c: |
| 12:57.55 | CIA-9 | BRL-CAD: do not close a mapped file while the database instance is still in use |
| 12:57.55 | CIA-9 | BRL-CAD: as db_clone_dbi does not increment dbi_mf->uses |
| 13:50.54 | brlcad | rossberg: i think i see the problem with just what you've said, but would it not be better to increment dbi_mf uses instead of not closing it? |
| 13:51.24 | brlcad | otherwise uses is .. useless ;) |
| 13:54.54 | brlcad | dbi_uses is only incremented in db_open, so it should be safe to increment mf->uses there on the dbi clone |
| 13:59.03 | rossberg | brlcad: i'm not sure but i think the handling of mf->uses is ok |
| 13:59.35 | rossberg | dbi_uses will be incremented in db_clone_dbi too |
| 14:00.22 | CIA-9 | BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/librt/g_submodel.c: remove bad commented-out increment of the dbi_uses. it might benefit to just clone the dbi, but seems unnecessary for a plot routine |
| 14:00.35 | brlcad | the handling of mf-> uses is okay until you clone the dbi, no? :) |
| 14:01.17 | rossberg | without clone the whole thing is trivial |
| 14:01.19 | brlcad | the issue is perhaps that the mapped files are globally shared |
| 14:01.42 | brlcad | so cloning the dbip doesn't give you a new open mapped file descriptor |
| 14:02.21 | rossberg | no: cloning only increments the reference counter (+ something else) |
| 14:02.33 | rossberg | this is for garbage collection |
| 14:02.46 | brlcad | right, on the dbi |
| 14:09.40 | rossberg | mf->uses counts references to a mapped file and dbi_uses counts references to a dbip |
| 14:11.05 | rossberg | consequently adding or removing a reference to a database instance does not change the references to a mapped file |
| 14:11.27 | rossberg | it is still the same database instance which refers to this file |
| 14:14.20 | brlcad | and that seemed like a bug to me -- adding or removing a reference to a database instance could conceivably change the number of references to a mapped file |
| 14:15.09 | brlcad | i think it'll work either way just because how mapped files are these global entities (especially if you just don't free them), just uses memory that could potentially be released |
| 14:16.43 | rossberg | but this are all indirect references (as the are higher level references via rtip too) |
| 14:18.20 | rossberg | it may be more clear if you think of dbi as an object |
| 14:19.45 | rossberg | independent of the number of references to this object, it is still only one object |
| 14:23.51 | rossberg | btw, it looks like the true purpose of db_clone_dbi is the registration of an additional client |
| 14:51.39 | CIA-9 | BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/librt/db_open.c: allow for clientless cloning and closing of dbip instances where only the uses count is of interest. no need to stash null clients even though the ptbl will record them, just ignore them. |
| 14:54.17 | CIA-9 | BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/mged/ged.c: avoid incrementing the dbi_uses counter directly -- do a clientless clone of the dbip instead |
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| 20:14.56 | CIA-9 | BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/libbu/ispar.c: gah, reduce the massive WIN32 block to just the section that mattered so that kill() is not invoked on a bu_bomb().. should eventually contain a WIN32-esque method for killing a parent process gracefully ala kill() |
| 22:37.59 | CIA-9 | BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/libbu/bomb.c: avoid passing additional format arguments to fprintf() to avoid potential buffer allocations. very nominal benefit, but can conceivably help with certain crashes and implementations of fprintf(). |
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| 01:23.05 | justin_ | it verks |
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| 02:57.34 | Twingy | this CASE package is taking entirely too much time |
| 02:58.05 | Twingy | to think I may have to do this again *shudder* |
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| 13:28.34 | Twingy | hrm, both lcd panels are now broke |
| 13:28.50 | Twingy | good thing I had 4 in the house |
| 13:41.47 | brlcad | darn skippy |
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| 14:15.48 | Twingy | humph |
| 14:16.42 | Twingy | you see that email about spending? |
| 14:22.53 | ``Erik | ja |
| 14:22.54 | ``Erik | :/ |
| 14:28.38 | Twingy | perfect timing on alexis |
| 14:28.59 | Twingy | with all the resistance I have faced |
| 14:29.12 | Twingy | it surely would not go through if things were a month or two behind where they are now |
| 14:36.53 | ``Erik | heh, I d'no about perfect timing... deferred to the last possible moment, maybe. |
| 14:37.05 | ``Erik | Hopefully the current operating orders don't alter anything. |
| 14:43.16 | Twingy | indeed |
| 14:43.22 | Twingy | I need to figure out how to do cell plots in s2 |
| 14:44.05 | ``Erik | heh, there're two people who've done 'em up on this floor, dude *shrug* |
| 14:47.18 | Twingy | 3 no? |
| 14:47.48 | ``Erik | ummmm, mark and ron? who else? |
| 14:48.32 | Twingy | prasad? |
| 14:48.53 | ``Erik | he has? (also; he's in key west, dude) |
| 14:49.07 | Twingy | I've been there twice, fun place |
| 14:49.21 | Twingy | the airport is hilarious |
| 14:49.24 | Twingy | it's like a closet |
| 14:49.28 | ``Erik | I think he plans on swimming to cuba to escape the project |
| 14:49.40 | Twingy | hah |
| 14:49.42 | ``Erik | you mean it isn't an umbrella stand next to a dirt field? hehehe |
| 14:50.45 | Twingy | is mark in? |
| 14:50.52 | ``Erik | I saw him earlier |
| 14:51.04 | Twingy | I wonder if they transfered is new line yet |
| 14:51.15 | ``Erik | probably |
| 14:51.38 | ``Erik | our bc is useful in chasing minor details like that to completion, as long as no thinking or decisions are required |
| 14:51.48 | ``Erik | O:-) |
| 14:52.11 | ``Erik | staying in for lunch? |
| 14:55.19 | Twingy | I'm at home :) |
| 14:56.14 | Twingy | but lunch does sound like a splendid idea, bbiab |
| 14:56.17 | ``Erik | oh, heh |
| 14:56.33 | ``Erik | bitch |
| 14:56.57 | CIA-9 | BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/regress/spdi.sh: using == is not portable |
| 15:11.53 | Twingy | <PROTECTED> |
| 15:14.23 | Twingy | Wet Bulb! |
| 15:31.29 | ``Erik | twinky: ron believes xcellbrowser is the tool, which looks at the .fr |
| 15:58.08 | Twingy | k |
| 16:01.33 | Twingy | I may have found a room-mate for $375/mo week days only |
| 16:07.44 | ``Erik | cool |
| 16:15.05 | ``Erik | You are in a geeky room. Exits are to the North, West, and Down. You see a hungry Erik. He bellows "GIT IN MAH BELLY!" |
| 16:30.22 | brlcad | go d |
| 16:39.00 | Twingy | wield tire iron |
| 16:39.09 | Twingy | bludgeon milton |
| 16:39.26 | Twingy | get loot |
| 16:43.27 | ``Erik | he has loot? |
| 16:43.44 | ``Erik | I thought he spent it all on guns and bullets and deer tags |
| 16:43.57 | Twingy | I'm sure he's got some jew gold |
| 16:44.00 | Twingy | :D |
| 16:44.03 | ``Erik | hahaha |
| 16:44.06 | ``Erik | damnit, cartman! |
| 16:44.13 | Twingy | hand it over bitch! |
| 16:44.49 | ``Erik | I don't wanna pay bills anymore. :( |
| 16:44.54 | Twingy | me either |
| 16:45.11 | Twingy | I need to get my truck paid off |
| 16:45.54 | Twingy | then you'll need a ferrari |
| 16:50.02 | ``Erik | I'll need a bigger garage |
| 16:50.54 | ``Erik | france only has a couple days less vacation a year, maybe I'll go there and intimidate them with the combo of my german heritage and american arrogance/cowboyism :D |
| 16:51.30 | ``Erik | ok, scratch that idea |
| 17:04.31 | Twingy | get the jew gold, no more bills |
| 17:08.13 | Twingy | I think I'm done my CASE today |
| 17:09.28 | ``Erik | I hope your case has better grammar than that sentence |
| 17:11.24 | Twingy | aw reck'n it duz |
| 17:12.49 | ``Erik | (I'm still left wondering... you completed it today, or you're fed up with it and not touching it for the rest of the day?) |
| 17:13.01 | ``Erik | I suspect I'll be working on mine over the weekend |
| 17:13.12 | Twingy | I just got an hour or two left on it |
| 17:14.00 | ``Erik | ah, I intend to float it by lee on monday, impact the pieces he makes sense on, then pass it off to wendy hopefully by tuesday or wednesday |
| 17:20.15 | Twingy | sent my mill motor back today |
| 17:20.22 | Twingy | should have the new one in 2 weeks |
| 17:20.32 | ``Erik | ? |
| 17:20.42 | Twingy | getting a better one with more caps for free |
| 17:20.48 | ``Erik | ah |
| 17:20.52 | Twingy | $22 shipping free |
| 17:49.32 | ``Erik | wtf |
| 17:49.55 | ``Erik | the, uh, trash collection contract wasn't renewed, so wendy has john collecting the trash... |
| 18:07.55 | brlcad | gah, pra5ad .. g-var has bugs |
| 18:28.12 | CIA-9 | BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/conv/g-var.c: crazy dev trickling variables throughout as if this were c++ code. add a local var footer and remove reference to non-existant codebase. fix header inclusion too. |
| 19:55.01 | ``Erik | *snrkt* |
| 19:55.14 | ``Erik | he's a ce, not a cs, pointers are for those cs geeks |
| 20:15.26 | CIA-9 | BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/conv/g-var.c: follow the style guidelines, use K&R/Java style braces/indents not BSD. ws. |
| 20:29.56 | *** part/#brlcad pier (n=pier@151.56.206.155) | |
| 20:31.21 | ``Erik | not bsd??? you suck |
| 20:33.34 | brlcad | http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Indent_style |
| 20:35.13 | brlcad | brl-cad's always been mostly k&r and it's by far the most common |
| 20:35.51 | brlcad | which reminds me to set up the automatic nightly formatting |
| 21:48.39 | ``Erik | gindent sometimes breaks things :/ |
| 00:44.20 | CIA-9 | BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/sh/shtool: treat screen as vt100, avoid the error message about determining how to do bold |
| 00:59.21 | CIA-9 | BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/m4/epsilon.m4: so far, only freebsd seems to use doubles for floats .. so revert the leniancy and report when implementations deviate from what should be expected from IEEE compliance. |
| 01:22.41 | CIA-9 | BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/other/blt/src/bltInit.c: Tcl_GetAssocData returns a Clientdata, so have to cast to long to avoid mipspro type check failure |
| 01:30.32 | CIA-9 | BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/doc/README.IRIX: no longer need to disable blt, build problem fixed (simple cast) |
| 01:34.23 | CIA-9 | BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/TODO: sgi knobs and example geometry are pushed back as (sigh) clone still isn't done and EF plugin and archer are going to require considerably more attention. prepare for 7.8.2 release, nothing left to do. |
| 01:38.26 | CIA-9 | BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/libpkg/pkg.c: quell unused variable warning |
| 01:47.21 | CIA-9 | BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/conv/bot_shell-vtk.c: quell unused variable warning (norm variable) |
| 02:00.06 | CIA-9 | BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/conv/bot_shell-vtk.c: missed a norm |
| 02:00.21 | CIA-9 | BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/conv/g-adrt.c: quell unused variable warnings |
| 02:01.34 | CIA-9 | BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/rt/viewweight.c: quell unused var warning |
| 02:05.07 | CIA-9 | BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/rt/viewxray.c: quell unsigned type warning |
| 02:08.19 | CIA-9 | BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/libdm/dm_obj.c: USE_FBSERV is now defined by configure, quell set but unused warning on id var. |
| 02:08.20 | brlcad | well then.. |
| 02:08.26 | brlcad | looks like arl just lost power |
| 02:08.47 | brlcad | and comcast.. |
| 02:24.01 | Twingy | wee |
| 02:24.05 | Twingy | no |
| 02:24.10 | Twingy | it's part of the new security protocol |
| 02:24.31 | Twingy | if you turn the power off, you don't get hackers |
| 02:24.38 | Twingy | it's brilliant! |
| 02:28.24 | brlcad | hrm.. seems i only lost connectivity to some servers.. ones that should have survived a browning |
| 02:29.22 | brlcad | ahh, servers are fine, some router is dead |
| 02:29.39 | brlcad | i can hop over with the right combination |
| 02:31.11 | brlcad | and that router seems to be back now |
| 02:32.18 | Twingy | I suspect I'll be painting, sanding, and spackling all day tomorrow |
| 03:16.18 | Twingy | messy |
| 03:25.27 | Twingy | If you have a time machine for sale, I would like to buy it. Send an e-mail. |
| 03:25.27 | Twingy | Please, serious inquiries only |
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| 18:37.02 | *** topic/#brlcad is http://brlcad.org/ || BRL-CAD is now Free Software! || Release 7.8.0 is Posted! | |
| 20:55.24 | CIA-9 | BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/conv/g-adrt.c: quell more unused variable warnings |
| 20:56.40 | CIA-9 | BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/burst/burst.c: only define sigcld if signal.h doesn't define it |
| 21:00.17 | CIA-9 | BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/gtools/g_transfer.c: remove unused variables |
| 21:01.22 | Twingy | nothing like working on muves on a saturday |
| 21:02.41 | CIA-9 | BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/mged/points/process.c: remove unused variables, quell warnings |
| 21:04.44 | CIA-9 | BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/mged/utility2.c: removed unused variable i |
| 21:06.12 | CIA-9 | BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/nirt/if.c: quell incompatible parammeter type warning |
| 21:07.19 | Twingy | hrmph |
| 21:07.40 | Twingy | this is rather significant speed up |
| 21:08.07 | Twingy | 4.15x speed up, I guaranteed 2x |
| 21:08.22 | Twingy | haven't optimized anything yet either |
| 21:10.14 | CIA-9 | BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/util/bwscale.c: quell type warnings on bu_free |
| 21:10.17 | Twingy | 43% memory savings too |
| 21:14.50 | ``Erik | 4.15 with or w/o ir ? |
| 21:16.29 | Twingy | w/o |
| 21:16.45 | Twingy | and half the code |
| 21:17.00 | Twingy | 4.15x speed up, 43% memory savings, half the code |
| 21:17.12 | Twingy | and I'm not even trying :) |
| 21:17.36 | Twingy | I've met my requirements though, so I should be done this week |
| 21:18.13 | Twingy | erik, you should base your M3 benchmarks off the ahem newest version of s2 |
| 21:22.26 | ``Erik | heh, indeed |
| 21:22.37 | ``Erik | although that task has been transfered to the new tl |
| 21:22.46 | Twingy | ah |
| 21:23.10 | ``Erik | apparently, if someone gives them bad news, they move to find someone else for a 'second opinion'... until they hear what they want to hear. |
| 21:23.18 | ``Erik | which is a good chunk of what drove mike to ssvt |
| 21:23.20 | ``Erik | :) |
| 21:23.25 | Twingy | haha, so dilbertesque |
| 21:23.47 | Twingy | atleast we don't get locked in a hole and shot |
| 21:24.11 | ``Erik | yet |
| 21:24.53 | Twingy | hrm |
| 21:25.12 | Twingy | if there were a way to know how many triangles were in the .g file that would save a good chunk of prep time |
| 21:25.41 | Twingy | save on alot of realloc's |
| 21:26.09 | Twingy | instead I'll set tie_init to something like 256k triangles by default, cater to small models and super fast prep |
| 21:29.00 | ``Erik | if you realloc 2*prev each step, would that cut the # of reallocs down enough to be usable? |
| 21:29.26 | ``Erik | or if you loaded into dynamic store, like a linked list of 'pages', then counted pages to generate the 'final' area? |
| 21:29.55 | Twingy | 2* is good for small values |
| 21:30.07 | Twingy | I have had several versions in there |
| 21:30.13 | Twingy | you're not teaching me anything new |
| 21:30.28 | ``Erik | heh, 2* is good for big values, too... physical pages aren't wired until they're written to |
| 21:30.31 | Twingy | I think I will go back to 8MB hunks |
| 21:30.36 | Twingy | no... |
| 21:30.48 | Twingy | if you're at 1GB and your algorithm goes, whomp 2GB |
| 21:30.53 | Twingy | and the model is 1.1GB |
| 21:31.12 | Twingy | you just ran out of memory |
| 21:31.12 | ``Erik | um, ... |
| 21:31.37 | Twingy | so now you gotta add code to set an upper bound based on your memory limit |
| 21:31.54 | Twingy | 8MB chunks, and that's that |
| 21:33.20 | ``Erik | no oom |
| 21:33.21 | ``Erik | sorry |
| 21:33.30 | ``Erik | memory isn't wired until it's written to |
| 21:34.44 | Twingy | for windows, for linux, for bsd, for irix, for... ? |
| 21:34.51 | ``Erik | fbsd |
| 21:34.58 | ``Erik | it SHOULD be the same on linux, and probably irix |
| 21:35.01 | ``Erik | I d'no about windows, heh |
| 21:35.44 | ``Erik | it's a byproduct of the mmu and COW, any system with virtualized memory SHOULD behave in a similar fashion... :/ |
| 21:35.53 | ``Erik | (which means old dos would break violently) |
| 21:36.08 | CIA-9 | BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/util/ (pl-X.c pl-sgi.c): quell lots of warnings. |
| 21:38.09 | CIA-9 | BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/mged/points/process.c: ws |
| 21:42.58 | CIA-9 | BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/mged/points/process.c: remove the usage if you're going to remove the decl |
| 21:58.23 | Twingy | getting close to dinner time, and another round of sanding in the garage |
| 22:07.50 | brlcad | time to go drinking |
| 22:08.19 | ``Erik | <-- sips his beer |
| 22:10.00 | Twingy | I have soda and iced-tea |
| 22:10.03 | ``Erik | my kitchen is a lot nicer when clean |
| 22:10.09 | Twingy | the possibilities are endless! |
| 22:11.09 | Twingy | let's see, 2 hours of sanding and painting, 1 hour of basement bathroom work, followed by an hour of kitchen floor work |
| 22:11.22 | Twingy | what a fun night |
| 22:11.49 | Twingy | back at 10pm |
| 22:54.49 | *** join/#brlcad brick_ (n=brick@dsl-146-236-32.telkomadsl.co.za) | |
| 22:55.23 | brick_ | hi |
| 22:56.05 | brick_ | Does BRL include tetrahedral meshing capabilities, or is some external app needed? |
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| 02:31.15 | brlcad | brick_: sorry, it doesn't directly |
| 02:31.41 | brlcad | it does have meshing capabilities, but not tetrahedral |
| 02:31.57 | brlcad | for that, presumably for fea purposes, we're collaborating with Cubit |
| 02:32.23 | brlcad | SNL project that does very well at meshing for fea purposes |
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| 06:22.52 | Twingy | this fortran shit is annoying me |
| 07:59.23 | *** join/#brlcad brick__ (n=brick@dsl-165-255-37.telkomadsl.co.za) | |
| 10:27.18 | brick__ | brlcad: how hard is it to use cubit on brl models currently? |
| 10:27.46 | brickZA | damn, all nicks taken ;P |
| 12:22.44 | brlcad | brickZA: cubit itself is pretty trivial to use. you convert brl-cad geometry to a format cubit will import (e.g. iges, stl, dxf). |
| 12:24.19 | brlcad | there is work going on to bring in brl-cad geometry directly by hooking into their CGM library |
| 12:24.34 | brlcad | which will be better, but even the import route isn't too bad |
| 12:44.04 | brickZA | brlcad: thanks :) |
| 12:58.30 | ``Erik | wi psykotic |
| 14:20.14 | brlcad | hrm, wake up CIA-9 |
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| 22:59.58 | ``Erik | O.O |
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| 22:21.16 | *** topic/#brlcad is http://brlcad.org/ || BRL-CAD is now Free Software! || Release 7.8.0 is Posted! | |
| 00:24.10 | CIA-9 | BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/util/pl-sgi.c: de-k&r-ify, ansify the functions |
| 00:24.12 | CIA-9 | BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/util/ (pl-sgi.c remapid.c sgi-pix.c): quell more warnings |
| 00:24.12 | CIA-9 | BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/util/pl-sgi.c: move the other defines and globals to the top too |
| 00:26.50 | CIA-9 | BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/other/iwidgets/pkgIndex.tcl.in: iwidgets needs to use it's own version, not the version of cad |
| 00:27.01 | CIA-9 | BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/tclscripts/swidgets/scripts/tclIndex: apparently some new indexed methods |
| 00:27.02 | CIA-9 | BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/ (6 files in 6 dirs): add initial makefiles for the other blt resource directories, help make distcheck work more prevalently |
| 01:25.07 | CIA-9 | BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/util/roots_example.c: remove unused var i |
| 01:25.07 | CIA-9 | BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/util/sgi-pix.c: few more unused |
| 01:26.55 | CIA-9 | BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/configure.ac: |
| 01:26.55 | CIA-9 | BRL-CAD: add a new configure --enable-verbose and --enable-progress option, with the |
| 01:26.56 | CIA-9 | BRL-CAD: first being a convenience option that enables the progress and warnings verbose |
| 01:26.56 | CIA-9 | BRL-CAD: options. the --enable-verbose-progress option (alias) basically adds --silent |
| 01:26.56 | CIA-9 | BRL-CAD: to LIBTOOLFLAGS and/or to LIBTOOL. |
| 01:27.22 | CIA-9 | BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/other/iwidgets/pkgIndex.tcl: commit the right version for iwidgets, 4.0.1 |
| 02:27.53 | CIA-9 | BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/util/pl-sgi.c: reorder functions in proper decl/usage order, get rid of const Matrix casts |
| 02:32.32 | CIA-9 | BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/m4/args.m4: record whether a configure option was set or not since it may be set yet still be the default |
| 02:36.29 | CIA-9 | BRL-CAD: 03bob1961 * 10brlcad/src/tclscripts/archer/Archer.tcl: Check-in mods for Doug. This mod checks for the existence of before trying to use it. Also change version to 0.8.1 |
| 03:20.36 | *** join/#brlcad IriX64 (n=IriX64@toronto-HSE-ppp4302269.sympatico.ca) | |
| 03:22.30 | CIA-9 | BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/util/sgi-pix.c: sane function ordering, clean up preprocessor logic, quell warnings, ws. |
| 04:32.35 | *** join/#brlcad IriX64 (n=who@toronto-HSE-ppp4302269.sympatico.ca) | |
| 15:06.10 | CIA-9 | BRL-CAD: 03bob1961 * 10brlcad/src/tclscripts/archer/Archer.tcl: Added a "Display" panel to the preferences dialog. At the moment it provides a simple way to set the viewing cube size. |
| 17:50.58 | ``Erik | a/det |
| 21:15.58 | *** join/#brlcad ibot (i=ibot@pdpc/supporter/active/TimRiker/bot/apt) | |
| 21:15.59 | *** topic/#brlcad is http://brlcad.org/ || BRL-CAD is now Free Software! || Release 7.8.0 is Posted! | |
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| 23:35.27 | CIA-9 | BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/doc/README.IRIX: ack, API != ABI. Genericize the home directory too. |
| 01:48.01 | *** join/#brlcad IriX64 (n=IriX64@toronto-HSE-ppp4302269.sympatico.ca) | |
| 02:45.55 | *** topic/#brlcad by brlcad -> http://brlcad.org/ || BRL-CAD is an open source solid modeling software suite || Developers needed! Read the HACKING file for details on getting involved || Release 7.8.2 expected on or about June 7th | |
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| 18:06.28 | CIA-9 | BRL-CAD: 03d_rossberg * 10brlcad/src/librt/g_pipe.c: the bending angle may be (still) near 0, this should not be a problem |
| 18:10.44 | CIA-9 | BRL-CAD: 03d_rossberg * 10brlcad/ (include/bn.h src/libbn/mat.c): |
| 18:10.44 | CIA-9 | BRL-CAD: provide with bn_mat_inverse a less rigorous function to invert a 4-by-4 matrix, |
| 18:10.44 | CIA-9 | BRL-CAD: it is almost impossible to decide in advance if a matrix is singular |
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| 20:04.05 | ``Erik | a2/det |
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| 05:43.48 | hsrai | register |
| 05:45.36 | hsrai | register rAi |
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| 13:38.32 | brlcad | hsrai: hello |
| 13:59.10 | ``Erik | heh |
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| 17:14.46 | brlcad | ahh tom |
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| 18:25.00 | CIA-9 | BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/tclscripts/archer/tclIndex: new index entries |
| 18:37.12 | CIA-9 | BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/mged/ged.c: unconditionally disable for now |
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| 21:26.39 | ``Erik | *yargn* |
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| 23:14.50 | ``Erik | http://radio.weblogs.com/0107064/MyImages/catfaces.jpg |
| 00:04.07 | brlcad | thats old stuff |
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| 21:37.40 | Lars | hi, anyone online? |
| 21:38.40 | Lars | Just came across some limitation in brlcad's iges-import and wanted to let others know about it. |
| 21:57.12 | *** part/#brlcad Lars (n=Lars@81.213.12.36) | |
| 00:33.28 | brlcad | hrmph |
| 00:34.13 | brlcad | they have a disney theme park designer as the siggraph keynote speaker.. |
| 00:34.38 | brlcad | that sounds mildly interesting, but I would have hoped for someone more interesting |
| 00:48.15 | Twingy | yep |
| 00:48.22 | Twingy | better than lucas |
| 00:48.36 | Twingy | I still think Bruce Sterling was best keynote ever |
| 00:48.44 | brlcad | heh |
| 00:48.56 | brlcad | hard to get worse than lucas |
| 00:48.59 | Twingy | SIGGRAPH 2003 4 EVA! |
| 00:49.17 | Twingy | I need to get my scsi mobo working |
| 00:49.27 | Twingy | and see if the contents of this scsi drive contain my siggraph 2003 pics |
| 00:49.33 | brlcad | omg! ponies @ siggraph 2007! lol |
| 00:49.39 | Twingy | otherwise they're gone foreva |
| 00:50.14 | Twingy | http://js.cx/~justin/scooter.xhtml |
| 00:52.01 | brlcad | using your own tax-dollar-funded electricity to recharge the battery half the time: priceless |
| 00:55.35 | brlcad | hmm.. so at roughly 1500 miles, you will have fully recouped the expense |
| 00:58.04 | brlcad | 35 miles round trip or so per trip, that's 42 trips you'll have to take which should be doable taking a trip once a week throughout the year minus a few weeks where it's too cold/wet |
| 00:58.27 | Twingy | yes |
| 00:58.40 | Twingy | it'll be a while |
| 00:58.51 | Twingy | and helping the environment in the process |
| 00:59.08 | Twingy | and making my small contribution to reducing oil demand |
| 01:05.48 | ``Erik | heh |
| 01:06.20 | ``Erik | as the oil burning power plants keep providing electricity, paying the penalty for all those step changes, wire loss, etc... |
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| 04:39.03 | IriX64 | ll |
| 04:40.47 | IriX64 | sorry. |
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| 12:56.55 | rick_ | Hello. How do I use voxels in brlcad |
| 12:59.20 | brlcad | you mean the volumetric primitive? |
| 13:00.12 | brlcad | the volumetric primitive expects ordered .bw slices like you might get directly from a CT/MRI scan |
| 13:01.32 | brlcad | bw is a single-channel raw pixel image format (first-quadrant) that brl-cad has tools to manipulate and directly create/convert to, etc |
| 13:02.12 | rick_ | yes. I would like to fill a complex volume (a tank with a v on the bottem) with volume primatives. |
| 13:03.23 | brlcad | hmm |
| 13:03.57 | brlcad | i'm not sure you mean a volumetric primitive then -- it could work, but doing something with the inverse CSG shape would be exact |
| 13:05.12 | rick_ | Let me explain what I am trying to do. Bare with me I new to brlcad. |
| 13:06.07 | brlcad | example, create an arb that encloses the space in the v that you want to have filled and then subtract the tank and any outside material |
| 13:06.34 | brlcad | an "arb" is a box primitive, if that wasn't clear |
| 13:08.59 | rick_ | I have allready created a region of my tank using rpp and arb6 an subtracted the internal volume wich made a sheet metal tank. |
| 13:13.40 | rick_ | Is there a way to get the volume of my tank and subdivide into lets say 1 inch cube volumes. |
| 13:17.41 | rick_ | Well I got to go to work, I really like this program. I am hoping to use it for all my projects. Once I get pass the learning curve. |
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| 16:10.25 | ``Erik | google for "souhlal said" |
| 16:23.51 | ``Erik | http://prasad.silva.swellserver.com/news/top_stories/worldrecord.php |
| 16:23.52 | ``Erik | O.o |
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| 18:26.38 | CIA-10 | BRL-CAD: 03bob1961 * 10brlcad/doc/archer_ack.txt: Minor changes |
| 19:04.26 | CIA-10 | BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/db/.cvsignore: add toyjeep.g |
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| 04:39.12 | digitalfredy | brlcad, ping |
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| 16:18.21 | *** topic/#brlcad is http://brlcad.org/ || BRL-CAD is an open source solid modeling software suite || Developers needed! Read the HACKING file for details on getting involved || Release 7.8.2 expected on or about June 7th | |
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| 20:55.28 | CIA-10 | BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/HACKING: |
| 20:55.28 | CIA-10 | BRL-CAD: Yet another massive rewrite/modification. This time expand the document to |
| 20:55.29 | CIA-10 | BRL-CAD: include details relevant to all contributors, not just developers, so that the |
| 20:55.29 | CIA-10 | BRL-CAD: file is applicable to anyone with commit access (with particular attention to |
| 20:55.29 | CIA-10 | BRL-CAD: documentation writers). Also, finally include some details on where we stand |
| 20:55.31 | CIA-10 | BRL-CAD: with C++ and clarify a lot of statements throughout with respect to style, |
| 20:55.33 | CIA-10 | BRL-CAD: conventions, and requirements. |
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| 00:54.27 | ``Erik | hrmmmmmmm |
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| 10:38.41 | ddh | hi |
| 10:39.03 | ddh | i am seeking help to install brlcad on my ubuntu-dapper |
| 10:39.28 | ddh | i googled, but i could find no sufficient howto. |
| 10:39.56 | ddh | the INSTALL instructions do not work either |
| 10:40.33 | ddh | i have no configure script in the (extracted) brl tree |
| 10:41.14 | ddh | i do have autogen installed, but when i execute it with sh autogen.sh i get the error that the file is missing. |
| 10:41.33 | ddh | when i execute autogen just by autogen, nothing happens |
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| 04:06.47 | CIA-10 | BRL-CAD: 03johnranderson * 10brlcad/src/conv/asc-nmg.c: Eliminated a redundant call to nmg_km() |
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| 17:42.26 | CIA-7 | BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/NEWS: fixed asc-nmg bug that caused a crash on exit |
| 17:45.52 | CIA-7 | BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/ (configure.ac NEWS include/config_win.h): prepare for release of 7.8.2 |
| 17:59.01 | CIA-7 | BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/ChangeLog: update Changelog for 7.8.2 release |
| 19:08.05 | CIA-7 | BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/HACKING: README is updated to the next expected release number while the rest are updated to a developer version |
| 19:10.12 | CIA-7 | BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/ (configure.ac NEWS README include/config_win.h): release 7.8.2 is tagged as rel-7-8-2, revision numbers are bumped up to 7.8.3 expecting 7.8.4 to be the next release number in a few weeks |
| 19:11.20 | CIA-7 | BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/TODO: propagate the next set of changes for this release, next iteration is still tbd |
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| 09:57.23 | archivist | hmm interest in dimensions is building up, time for another hard look at the database format |
| 13:24.30 | brlcad | dimensions can be done regardless of the database format |
| 13:24.43 | brlcad | the database format can support the stashing of any key/value data |
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| 13:37.35 | brlcad | the real "trick" is two-fold |
| 13:38.20 | brlcad | 1) extracting the dimensions from the geometry (convert to brep and calculate, or sample the implicit directly) |
| 13:38.54 | brlcad | 2) providing a user interface for specifying what they want dimensioned and how to display those dimensions |
| 13:39.51 | archivist | dimensions that are set should control the geometry imho |
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| 13:49.57 | archivist | the end result will a mixture of derived on the 2d and some driving when the items are created |
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| 14:28.48 | brlcad | i presume you mean dimensions that are effectively tied to the geometry directly such that they become constraints of a sort |
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| 14:31.43 | archivist | yes |
| 14:32.19 | brlcad | hmm.. from a modeling perspective, that gets very tricky |
| 14:32.47 | brlcad | if I have arbitrary geometry, even just a simple primitive with a dimensioned length |
| 14:32.47 | archivist | i realise that |
| 14:33.28 | brlcad | there can be numerous transforms that will evaluate to an increase in that dimension, e.g. stretching and scaling might both make the dimension increase |
| 14:34.06 | brlcad | and for many prims that could be a completely non-linear transform |
| 14:35.01 | brlcad | unless it just happened to be one of a handful of fairly well-behaved dimensions, like the diameter of a cylinder or a sphere |
| 14:36.03 | brlcad | which are pretty trivial of course.. throw in CSG operations and arbitrary dimensions across several primitives and you suddenly have a fairly unsolvable constraint |
| 14:36.23 | brlcad | unless you always scaled uniformly or something wierd.. :) |
| 14:37.40 | archivist | yup I get some wonderfull drags in solid works or a nasty error message |
| 14:38.24 | archivist | one then does it properly forcing dimensions to be sensible or fix relatiions between lines |
| 14:38.33 | brlcad | heh |
| 14:40.36 | archivist | It generally checks before attempting the stupid, later versions are better in that respect |
| 14:42.16 | brlcad | does solidworks let you dimension across parts? |
| 14:42.31 | brlcad | and modify that dimension directly |
| 14:42.45 | archivist | drawing correct sizes at the start is less fraught |
| 14:43.01 | brlcad | hmm? |
| 14:43.47 | archivist | you can relate a new part to existing parts in an assembly yes |
| 14:44.10 | archivist | known as drawing "in place" |
| 14:44.13 | brlcad | but then is that just a position constraint? |
| 14:44.57 | archivist | well a mod of the assembly will stretch the part or give an error |
| 14:45.01 | brlcad | i'm thinking of a case where you set a dimension on the span of say a car engine, one for width, one for height etc |
| 14:46.14 | brlcad | if I selected the width and "increased" it.. what would that do if there were no constraints set? |
| 14:47.17 | archivist | holes would not line up graphics will overlap |
| 14:47.46 | brlcad | so it wouldn't stretch all the geometry, just some of it |
| 14:48.14 | archivist | if it was drawn in place then some stretching would tacke place |
| 14:48.47 | archivist | it all depends wether parts are related or not |
| 14:49.10 | archivist | relations can be added or deleted |
| 14:49.14 | brlcad | relations are implicit constraints.. this simplist case is fully unconstrained |
| 14:49.40 | brlcad | (just conceptualizing the generic case) |
| 14:50.52 | archivist | unconstrained part grow and the graphics merge (an interference check needed) |
| 14:52.11 | brlcad | and what about the case where all parts are related in an assembly (again, the case of a simple engine for example) |
| 14:52.37 | brlcad | would it simply stretch the engine? |
| 14:53.27 | archivist | if it could yes (as long as the related join distance does not have a constraint) |
| 14:54.25 | brlcad | right, was presuming there aren't internal constraints that might impose additional constraints like having a hole some distance from an edge |
| 14:55.39 | archivist | hole from edge may be able to drag the edge |
| 14:57.43 | archivist | I shall have to do some test cases I suppose so we can see whats happening |
| 17:36.22 | CIA-7 | BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/tclscripts/mged/pkgIndex.tcl: commit the empty index like all the others if only to be consistent |
| 18:40.41 | archivist | did a test case draw chassis solid, insert chassis into assembly, draw engine in place, stretch chassis and engine stretches to fit, keeping bolt holes registered |
| 18:41.34 | archivist | stretch was by editing the dimension in the chassis part |
| 18:57.09 | brlcad | that's sort of what I'd hope expect since your dealing with a lower dimension with dependent constraints |
| 18:57.25 | brlcad | how does it behave if you create a new dimension for the entire enginge? |
| 18:57.56 | ``Erik | vodka would be nice right about now |
| 18:58.21 | ``Erik | the funk soul brother |
| 19:01.44 | archivist | attmpting to constrain the bolt distance of the engine is not allowed |
| 19:03.27 | archivist | breaking the relation to the chassis would then allow it |
| 20:32.58 | CIA-7 | BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/NEWS: 7.6.8 window of opportunity was lost due to merge complications on the 7.6 branch, so cancel it outright. revert, poof, gone. |
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| 01:46.58 | *** join/#brlcad starseeker (n=user@ip70-161-120-182.hr.hr.cox.net) | |
| 02:05.13 | starseeker | anybody here? |
| 02:08.41 | brlcad | sometimes :) |
| 02:08.47 | brlcad | howdy starseeker .. been a while |
| 02:09.02 | starseeker | Yes indeed. Just got internet back after many months |
| 02:09.09 | starseeker | good to be back! |
| 02:09.36 | starseeker | I see brl-cad has made some strides. Anybody working on a 7.8.0 ebuild yet, to your knowledge? |
| 02:09.51 | brlcad | not to my knowledge! |
| 02:10.05 | starseeker | Hmm. A situation requiring attention :-) |
| 02:10.13 | brlcad | there have been a couple new gentooers interested in the ebuild, but nobody jumping in hard |
| 02:10.41 | brlcad | there was still one remaining issue iirc, but I hadn't been back to the ebuild to see what it was to get a fix in for it |
| 02:10.54 | starseeker | letsee... I was just looking at that... |
| 02:10.56 | brlcad | btw 7.8.2 is posted ;) |
| 02:11.02 | starseeker | sweet! |
| 02:11.20 | brlcad | brb |
| 02:14.19 | starseeker | Well, I've got the gentoo-sci overlay here, which I think has it... yes. Let's see how 7.8.2 does. |
| 02:21.30 | starseeker | OK, here we go... |
| 02:22.37 | starseeker | Ah, fudge. Ebuild wants a patch. |
| 02:22.55 | starseeker | Would it be better for testing purposes to try it with no patches? |
| 02:33.06 | starseeker | OK... it didn't like it when I tried to eautoconf, but I"m trying it with just removing all that and going with the default ./configure... |
| 02:35.22 | starseeker | They disabled something subesequently not found on the system - re-enabling it... |
| 02:35.31 | starseeker | URT, I think... |
| 02:37.13 | starseeker | Grr - itcl must need a patch. Darn it, why can't they just use the internal stuff... |
| 02:39.54 | starseeker | Well, I'm almost getting it to finish ./configure so far :-) |
| 02:40.49 | brlcad | for ebuild it should be using either the --enable-everything or --disable-everything option so that it consistently builds or doesn't build the external dependencies itself |
| 02:41.35 | starseeker | Hmm. Well, they seem to be pretty stubborn about wanting the disable-everything route, but that never seems to work properly. |
| 02:41.44 | starseeker | OK, it's at least building now. |
| 02:41.47 | brlcad | probably --disable-everything .. that will turn off brl-cad's compilation of almost everything in src/other |
| 02:42.14 | brlcad | shouldn't be any more violations any more |
| 02:42.22 | starseeker | OK, cool :-) |
| 02:42.33 | brlcad | the biggest issue that I can think of is that it still requires our tcl/tk |
| 02:42.37 | starseeker | I think it's about a 20 minute build (or it was) |
| 02:42.49 | brlcad | more specifically, it needs our tk |
| 02:43.07 | starseeker | actually, tcl/tk was ok, at least so far - it was itcl it didn't seem to like |
| 02:43.13 | brlcad | though I haven't tried piecemealing it with some on and some off |
| 02:43.29 | starseeker | 'course, I haven't actually gotten to the tk compile yet... |
| 02:44.17 | brlcad | no? what fails? |
| 02:44.24 | brlcad | everything in brl-cad should compile without a hitch |
| 02:44.49 | brlcad | i.e. if you ./configure --enable-everything .. that 'should' always work .. if it doesn't, that's a serious build bug |
| 02:44.50 | starseeker | I think it will. The configure was a little odd but I'm not convinced that's brlcads fault |
| 02:45.12 | starseeker | OK. I was doing it wrong - I tried to use internal stuff only when I had to |
| 02:45.26 | brlcad | you can actually --enable-everything and then --disable specific packages too .. that might be easier for testing |
| 02:46.19 | starseeker | If enable-everything works we should get an ebuild out there that does that, and follow up with the more finicky one when we can make it work. |
| 02:46.53 | brlcad | we're really really close to being able to disable everything, it's the tcl/tk itcl/itk/iwidgets stuff that causes serious problems still due to the way they search for script 'packages' at run-time |
| 02:47.35 | brlcad | that can come to closure and get fixed pretty quickly, but since you weren't around and others weren't nearly as motivated, the priority slowly decreases ;) |
| 02:47.41 | brlcad | priority follows interest ;) |
| 02:47.48 | brlcad | and involvement |
| 02:47.55 | starseeker | I thought there were some customizations that were made just for brl-cad? |
| 02:47.57 | starseeker | Heh |
| 02:48.10 | starseeker | Yes, I see the ebuild comments are rather stale |
| 02:48.33 | brlcad | there were some customizations make to tk and repairs made throughout their build for minor issues like 64bit bugs and type warnings |
| 02:48.46 | starseeker | I was hoping when that guy came in making fun of my 1st ebuild he would get it completely working. Maybe it's time to repeat that strategy :-) |
| 02:48.52 | brlcad | but I removed those shortly after the last time I was testing with either you or one of the debian guys |
| 02:49.08 | brlcad | our tk mods are now in a different library (one of ours) instead of in tk |
| 02:49.15 | starseeker | The upstream tk maintainers weren't interested? |
| 02:49.17 | starseeker | cool |
| 02:49.41 | brlcad | but.. that code still uses tk internal headers and has to get fixed still.. so until it's fixed it still requires a copy of tk sources from somewhere |
| 02:49.55 | starseeker | Seldom a problem on gentoo ;-) |
| 02:50.11 | brlcad | true |
| 02:50.13 | starseeker | Oh, is -march=athlon-xp going to get me in trouble? |
| 02:50.49 | brlcad | but it means that you can't just assume because tk 8.4 is installed that it will compile, it won't.. because it's using internal tk headers as if it was tk itself.. which tk doesn't install |
| 02:50.56 | brlcad | no, that should be just fine |
| 02:51.14 | brlcad | the veritable test of functionality after everything is installed is to run 'benchmark' |
| 02:51.35 | starseeker | Is that a brlcad binary? |
| 02:51.47 | starseeker | (it's been a while :/) |
| 02:51.50 | brlcad | yes |
| 02:52.03 | brlcad | technically not a binary, but it is a core brl-cad application |
| 02:52.09 | starseeker | OK, if I get away with this compile I'll give it a go. |
| 02:52.35 | brlcad | that ends up exercising all of the core libraries testing performance and verifying that the ray-trace library is computing results correctly within tolerance |
| 02:52.55 | brlcad | it will tell you a metric of how your machine compares performance-wise |
| 02:53.49 | starseeker | OK. |
| 02:54.07 | brlcad | the BRL-CAD Benchmark has also been around for a couple decades so you can use the number it gives you to see how you compare to systems like a VAX 11/780 and a Cray 2, etc |
| 02:54.14 | starseeker | Cool! |
| 02:54.45 | brlcad | or a 512 process SGI Origin 2000 or a Mac G5, etc.. any system |
| 02:55.12 | starseeker | Might be depressing though - when we benchmarked our compaq pcs agains our years old dec alphas, our new (expensive) pcs got killed on floating point |
| 02:55.47 | starseeker | We should have scrounged up a buch of old alphas - more bang for the buck ;-) |
| 02:56.06 | brlcad | it's an excellent direct comparison of "real world" computation power for cpu-intensive applications since it exercises how well your cpu performs, cache levels, access to memory, coherency, compiler optimization options, etc |
| 02:56.26 | starseeker | Nice. Who's the current leader in the AMD/Intel comparison? |
| 02:56.53 | brlcad | e.g. it would be a great way to quantifiably compare how much boost gentoo gives to a system by simply compiling with the same compiler and same compiler options on a box with gentoo and then on that same box with a different os |
| 02:57.12 | starseeker | Hmm. That would be interesting. |
| 02:57.27 | brlcad | AMD has been beating in the numerics realm for many years now for general performance computing |
| 02:57.28 | starseeker | Has anybody tried it inside a virtualization environment (e.g. Xen?) |
| 02:58.41 | starseeker | That might be a good heavy duty test for them |
| 02:58.58 | starseeker | Although I guess the CPUs with the proper support for that aren't generally available yet? |
| 02:59.05 | brlcad | Intel's been good in some niche computing areas, e.g. taking advantage of perfectly aligned caches with extensive coherencey, but when it comes to real world application performance, it pays more penalties and AMD has come out on top for most chips for over 5 years now |
| 02:59.21 | starseeker | Wow! |
| 02:59.24 | brlcad | inside a virtualization environment? |
| 02:59.48 | brlcad | it's been run inside Mingw on windows and on virtual pc |
| 03:00.10 | starseeker | Apparently they are working on creating processors that will allow things like running Windows and Linux side by side at a rather low level (for performance gains) |
| 03:00.13 | brlcad | shows pretty well the sorts of penalties you pay |
| 03:00.25 | starseeker | Yes, I'm sure mingw is horrible |
| 03:00.30 | brlcad | :) |
| 03:00.44 | starseeker | Maxima has used mingw, and I think Axiom did too |
| 03:00.51 | starseeker | When it's the only game in town... |
| 03:01.19 | starseeker | Ah - here's Xen: http://www.cl.cam.ac.uk/Research/SRG/netos/xen/ |
| 03:02.21 | brlcad | ahh |
| 03:02.29 | starseeker | They claim "close to native" performance :-). Sounds like it's begging for benchmark to take a crack at it ;-) |
| 03:02.34 | brlcad | it'd be interested to see just what that penalty is |
| 03:02.54 | brlcad | that's what I've always loved about the BRL-CAD Benchmark |
| 03:03.12 | starseeker | I'm hoping to wait on my next PC until I can have Xen allow things like running WIndows and Linux at the same time, seamlessly |
| 03:03.52 | brlcad | it's a real world metric better than the subjective ones you usually see like Photoshop and Maya, and not tied to hardware to specifically beyond the processor like the game FPS benchmarks |
| 03:04.05 | starseeker | Right. |
| 03:04.07 | brlcad | nor is it insanely operation specific like the SPEC ratings |
| 03:04.23 | brlcad | where you simply do a billion floating point divides etc |
| 03:04.56 | starseeker | I think some of those tests were intended for very specific numerical simulation optimization, and got perverted into marketing tools. |
| 03:05.33 | starseeker | OK, compiled... Will it install... |
| 03:06.28 | starseeker | I saw a warning about relinking libfb.a or something similar - is that expected? |
| 03:06.39 | *** join/#brlcad DTRemenak (n=DTRemena@c-24-23-59-104.hsd1.ca.comcast.net) | |
| 03:08.35 | starseeker | One problem I might have is that my nvidia drivers aren't working with the new Xorg release, so I"m on the basic nv driver |
| 03:09.06 | starseeker | Appears to have installed!!! |
| 03:09.58 | starseeker | Let's see what benchmark does... |
| 03:10.38 | starseeker | It estimates a little under 10 minutes |
| 03:11.22 | brlcad | they do get perverted into marketing tools |
| 03:12.07 | brlcad | and if you talk to some of the chip makers.. some of the chips (in particular intel ones) are actually specifically designed to perform very well on the SPEC benchmarks even though their real-world performance is nowhere near as ideal |
| 03:12.27 | starseeker | ouch. That must smart to an engineer |
| 03:12.35 | brlcad | benchmark default timeframe is 10 minutes, it can be changed to pretty much any length of time |
| 03:13.08 | starseeker | lets see - where does brlcad put its examples? |
| 03:13.18 | brlcad | e.g. "TIMEFRAME=10 benchmark" will run it really fast to give a real quick estimate |
| 03:13.34 | brlcad | did it error? |
| 03:13.41 | starseeker | not so far |
| 03:14.05 | brlcad | each one of those frames is actually a ray-trace rendering of some geometry |
| 03:14.36 | brlcad | simple models, but the stress specific types of access and different portions of the BRL-CAD libraries |
| 03:14.48 | brlcad | 6 tests in all today |
| 03:15.18 | starseeker | Ah, OK. Well, it is giving answers are RIGHT and 0 off by 1, 0 off by many |
| 03:15.29 | brlcad | good |
| 03:15.29 | starseeker | Oh, it sends them in to the site? |
| 03:15.33 | brlcad | RIGHT answers are good |
| 03:15.36 | starseeker | :-) |
| 03:15.46 | brlcad | no, it doesn't .. would be a sweet feature I'd like to add |
| 03:16.09 | brlcad | but i'm a bit uneasy myself about how to prompt the user as to whether they want to submit results to a database |
| 03:17.02 | brlcad | plus I need more details to really make sense of the number (cpu type, number of cpus, amount of memory, l1/l2/l3 cache levels, compiler, compiler options, type of memory, version of brl-cad) |
| 03:17.05 | starseeker | Maybe something like: "Tests completed successfully. Would you like to submit these results to the central brlcad performance benchmarking database? (y|n) |
| 03:17.52 | brlcad | something like that could work |
| 03:18.03 | starseeker | Most computers can tell you cpu type and # of cpus I think, and probably amount of memory. Not sure about the others - does brlcad itself record the options used to build it? |
| 03:18.23 | starseeker | type of memory might be tough. I'd love to know how to tell what kind of memory I've got. |
| 03:18.47 | brlcad | i can programmatically get most of the details, and it does know how it was built.. but the tool that describes all that to the benchmark suite would need to get written |
| 03:19.10 | starseeker | Ugh. |
| 03:19.34 | starseeker | OK, got the results : These numbers seem to indicate that this machine is approximately 1347 times |
| 03:19.34 | starseeker | faster than the reference machine being used for comparison, a VAX 11/780 |
| 03:19.34 | starseeker | running 4.3 BSD named VGR. These results are in fact approximately 3.13 |
| 03:19.34 | starseeker | orders of magnitude faster than the reference. |
| 03:20.04 | brlcad | not too shabby for a single cpu result |
| 03:20.25 | brlcad | seems slightly low if that's a new chip, did you use --enable-optimized? |
| 03:20.36 | starseeker | No. It's an old chip though. |
| 03:20.39 | starseeker | let's see... |
| 03:21.05 | brlcad | ahh, without --enable-optimized, the numbers are going to be considerably lower |
| 03:21.19 | starseeker | Fudge - how do I check my cpu type |
| 03:21.32 | brlcad | compiler difference between -O0 and -O3 with additional optimizations is going to be about 2X performance usually |
| 03:21.41 | starseeker | I should say I didn't turn it on - I need to check the ebuild |
| 03:21.42 | brlcad | cat /proc/cpuinfo |
| 03:21.57 | starseeker | <PROTECTED> |
| 03:22.09 | starseeker | cache size : 256 KB |
| 03:22.22 | starseeker | cpu MHz : 1533.236 |
| 03:23.18 | starseeker | Opps - it's in the ebuild, but I don't think I used that flag. OK, one more build... |
| 03:23.24 | starseeker | should I bother sending in this result? |
| 03:23.34 | brlcad | nah |
| 03:23.58 | brlcad | make sure it's --enable-optimized and --disable-debug for the best results and maybe even add your march flag |
| 03:24.16 | brlcad | (disable-debug isn't that important, but might give 1-2%) |
| 03:24.28 | starseeker | OK - the march flag was in there, I saw it during the build |
| 03:25.49 | starseeker | Is --enable-everything compatible with the above two options? |
| 03:25.50 | brlcad | that VGR number (1347 in your case) is the bread and butter |
| 03:25.56 | brlcad | yes |
| 03:26.17 | brlcad | enable-everything only affects the --enable-*-build options |
| 03:26.24 | starseeker | All rightie, let's see if this will build |
| 03:26.29 | brlcad | so has nothing to do with optimized or debug |
| 03:27.13 | starseeker | does an athlon xp 1800 still count as a new chip? |
| 03:27.24 | brlcad | the VGR number is a linear metric, meaning that a machine with a VGR of 2000 is twice as fast as one with a VGR of 1000 |
| 03:27.42 | brlcad | 1800 is from 5 years ago, no? |
| 03:27.48 | brlcad | maybe 6 |
| 03:27.51 | starseeker | I think - I don't remember now |
| 03:28.17 | brlcad | doesn't matter, i've been slowly attempting to build a database of performance numbers |
| 03:28.48 | brlcad | hoping to get a website wrapped around it all at some point so people can see just how systems perform under various configurations |
| 03:28.49 | starseeker | Cool. I'll have a somewhat better one for you in half an hour or so ;-) |
| 03:29.27 | brlcad | so you know it.. when you run benchmark, it's dumping out a lot of files into your current directory ... :-) |
| 03:29.50 | starseeker | woo-doggy |
| 03:30.09 | brlcad | easy enough to rm -f *.pix *.log summary to get rid of them all |
| 03:30.30 | brlcad | assuming you don't have other pix and log files of importance |
| 03:30.47 | starseeker | not any more ;-) |
| 03:31.05 | starseeker | I don't usually use log files much |
| 03:31.21 | starseeker | bad habit though - I really should keep a closer eye on things |
| 03:31.50 | brlcad | meh, there's only so many hours in the day to keep an eye on things ;) |
| 03:32.10 | starseeker | exactly. Maybe I should hire a sysadmin :) |
| 03:32.15 | brlcad | so you said you were offline? off to school? in jail? :) |
| 03:32.43 | starseeker | Nah (though the office does feel like the latter sometimes) - I turned off the internet for a while to conserve on both time and $$ |
| 03:33.01 | brlcad | gotya |
| 03:33.21 | starseeker | So I had the bright idea of re-installing my system to get all the latest goodies |
| 03:33.28 | starseeker | and ran smack into the expat upgrade |
| 03:33.40 | brlcad | though heck, I probably would have paid for your internet if it meant getting more brl-cad work out of you ;-) |
| 03:34.21 | starseeker | Heh :-). Didn't think of that. The real problem was my girlfriend was 5 hours away up in Delaware and most of my weekends were spent driving up there. |
| 03:34.37 | brlcad | ahh, that's just up the road |
| 03:34.37 | starseeker | Even brl-cad doesn't compete with girlfriend ;-) |
| 03:35.10 | starseeker | Now she's in Pittsburgh, which is 10 hours. So now it's down to once a month, due to travel time and costs |
| 03:35.19 | brlcad | you probably drove within 5 minutes of my house if you took the I95 corridor |
| 03:35.39 | starseeker | I've only done that once or twice - usually I come up 13 |
| 03:35.50 | starseeker | Bay bridge costs, but it's a nice drive |
| 03:36.14 | starseeker | You in Delaware? |
| 03:36.21 | brlcad | it is a nice drive.. |
| 03:36.24 | brlcad | no no.. |
| 03:36.31 | brlcad | god that'd drive me nut |
| 03:36.36 | brlcad | nuts |
| 03:36.43 | starseeker | Hehe. No sales tax was nice. |
| 03:36.53 | brlcad | yeah.. but .. it's .. deleware ;) |
| 03:37.10 | starseeker | Well, at least it has the virtue of not being NJ :-) |
| 03:37.18 | brlcad | there's nothing there except a couple beaches and tax free shopping |
| 03:37.27 | brlcad | that's true |
| 03:37.31 | starseeker | the only state I am aware of which collects money from you to let you out is NJ ;-) |
| 03:37.41 | brlcad | hehe |
| 03:38.08 | starseeker | Well, they do have some solar research at Delaware, but thanks to the current administration the $$ kinda dried up |
| 03:38.33 | starseeker | Cool. We went down to MD for dinner once in a while |
| 03:39.00 | starseeker | Got my only speeding ticket to date in MD |
| 03:39.06 | brlcad | heh |
| 03:39.18 | starseeker | Never drive fast after midnight on Superbowl sunday - the cops are all bored |
| 03:40.33 | brlcad | 95 is heavily patrolled most of the time through MD, have to know their camping spots but even then it's still a big gamble |
| 03:40.59 | brlcad | they make a lot of their funding on it |
| 03:41.22 | starseeker | Yep. If we suddenly all slowed to legal speeds I think there would be a financial crisis in law enforcement |
| 03:41.23 | brlcad | with a particular affinity for out-of-state cars ;) |
| 03:41.27 | starseeker | heh |
| 03:41.45 | starseeker | That night I think I was the ONLY car. |
| 03:42.40 | starseeker | I think the most fun I had doing that drive was when NASCAR was getting out in Dover and I was going the other way - there's something immensely satisfying about doing 60 down the road watching a 17 mile backup on the other side :-) |
| 03:43.15 | brlcad | the one nice thing is that since 95 is so heavily traveled and it feeds through baltimore/washington that the average speeds are conveniently high |
| 03:43.27 | starseeker | True. |
| 03:43.38 | brlcad | but it also means the cops can pretty much pull over anyone they want depending on how much quota they have to fill that month .. |
| 03:44.07 | starseeker | I think I"ve seen as many as 4 cars stationed in once spot on 95, come to think of it. |
| 03:44.10 | starseeker | and it was in MD |
| 03:45.32 | brlcad | coworker and I that used to travel 50+ miles a day at usually 80-100 mph most of the way and we used to joke about how cars that got "selected" was like them simply choosing a sacrificial lamb |
| 03:46.11 | brlcad | a form of random taxation for the 'privilege' to drive fast if you will |
| 03:46.22 | starseeker | Yep. |
| 03:46.50 | starseeker | I think if they would raise the driving license age by another 5 years or so they could up the speeds another 10 miles. |
| 03:47.36 | starseeker | 50+ miles a day is a mean commute |
| 03:47.42 | brlcad | they could already do that pretty safely, half of the neighboring states already did without a problem |
| 03:48.01 | starseeker | Yep, then it's the $$, pure and simple |
| 03:48.11 | brlcad | pretty much |
| 03:48.41 | starseeker | How has BRLCAD been doing now that it's open source - have there been real, substantial contributions to the code base yet? |
| 03:48.48 | brlcad | and a lot of conservatives wanting to keep it how it is |
| 03:48.57 | starseeker | that figures |
| 03:50.23 | brlcad | there have been some substantial contributions, more so in the last couple months has been growing involvement from a handful of guys learning what's there and making mods |
| 03:51.09 | brlcad | nobody up to speed of what i'd call a core dev yet, but the contributions have been significant |
| 03:51.44 | brlcad | one guy working on converting the major documentation into docbook (long desired task) and he's made great progress pretty much doing exactly what I would have done had I done it myself |
| 03:52.04 | starseeker | That's handy :-) |
| 03:52.11 | brlcad | another guy worked on mged fixing a handful of issues and implementing full vi-mode command line editing capabilities |
| 03:52.46 | brlcad | another windows dev went hog wild making litterally hundred of fixes throughout shortly after it was released for windows |
| 03:53.00 | starseeker | Heh - I see May 23 was a banner day for downloads |
| 03:53.06 | brlcad | that was just astounding, though I haven't been able to get him onto irc yet to get him integrating better |
| 03:53.24 | starseeker | Windows specific fixes, or general? |
| 03:53.31 | brlcad | both |
| 03:53.35 | starseeker | Wow |
| 03:53.39 | brlcad | more general then specific actually |
| 03:53.54 | brlcad | though he also fixed a lot of windows build system issues too |
| 03:54.21 | starseeker | A good windows release is always a major undertaking. Which installer did you opt for? |
| 03:54.58 | brlcad | it was.. the windows release held up our normal release schedule for several months |
| 03:56.05 | brlcad | my time was completely taxed trying to integrate the ton of changes that had been made for the windows port over a couple months, then took a couple more of testing and fixing and validating, etc and I'm still trying to catch up and get back to regular monthly releases now |
| 03:56.29 | brlcad | i forget the exact installer, I think it's an installshield right now |
| 03:56.43 | starseeker | Really. Wow. I thought that was commercial only |
| 03:56.53 | brlcad | though I'll likely see if I can someone playing with the windows stuff to look at nsis |
| 03:57.07 | starseeker | Yep, I was going to suggest that :-) |
| 03:57.20 | starseeker | If for any reason that won't work, InnoSetup is the other major one. |
| 03:57.38 | brlcad | i think nsis is actually probably better regardless.. :) |
| 03:57.41 | starseeker | I think NSIS is the more sophisticated of the two though |
| 03:57.45 | starseeker | er, yeah :-) |
| 03:58.19 | starseeker | Axiom used NSIS, and I'm sure it will again when someone gets gutsy enough to try it again. |
| 03:58.31 | brlcad | installshield isn't available to anyone but bob (the current 'primary' windows dev) |
| 03:58.35 | starseeker | Ah. |
| 03:59.21 | brlcad | i'm not too thrilled with the current state of the windows build myself but i'm just waiting to see how it all settles down |
| 03:59.47 | starseeker | Are y'all using mingw and msys or the Microsoft tools? |
| 04:00.16 | brlcad | there are now like 3 ways build on windows, cygwin/mingw or vc6 studio build files or vc7 build files |
| 04:00.35 | starseeker | mingw is always a trip because it never steadies down. |
| 04:00.40 | starseeker | Wow |
| 04:00.47 | starseeker | no wonder it took months |
| 04:00.51 | brlcad | cygwin/mingw is actually the most comprehensive.. it builds the entire package, all libraries, all binaries |
| 04:01.08 | brlcad | i had that working a couple years ago in just a day |
| 04:01.46 | brlcad | the vc6 files on the other hand dont' include any of the binaries, but build all of the libraries "best" |
| 04:02.15 | brlcad | the vc7 files build all of the libraries 'ok' and about 1/4th of the binaries (most of the core ones that people care about) |
| 04:02.30 | starseeker | Hmm. How are the relative benchmark numbers for the different methods? |
| 04:03.00 | brlcad | the problem with the studio files is that they have to be separately maintained and that's a burden without a really highly active windows dev |
| 04:03.41 | starseeker | Yes. Plus, you need a studio license to even get started |
| 04:03.47 | brlcad | hmm.. i hadn't bothered testing extensively, just quick tests to make sure things were working correctly and get a feel |
| 04:04.08 | starseeker | Auuuuuuuuuuuuuugh |
| 04:04.30 | starseeker | --------------------------- ACCESS VIOLATION SUMMARY --------------------------- |
| 04:04.30 | starseeker | LOG FILE = "/var/log/sandbox/sandbox-sci-misc_-_brlcad-7.8.2-13421.log" |
| 04:04.30 | starseeker | open_wr: /usr/lib/describe.com |
| 04:04.30 | starseeker | -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- |
| 04:04.31 | brlcad | studio builds are definitely faster -- the compiler is considerably better at optimizing over what gcc was doing in mingw |
| 04:04.45 | brlcad | hmm.. decribe.com? |
| 04:05.12 | starseeker | Yep. |
| 04:05.22 | brlcad | that sounds familiar |
| 04:05.30 | starseeker | That didn't happen before - but I'm not sure if it was the enable-everything or the optimized flag |
| 04:05.40 | brlcad | sounds like jove |
| 04:05.58 | brlcad | yep, sure enough.. |
| 04:06.04 | brlcad | problem in the jove Makefile.am |
| 04:06.09 | brlcad | --disable-jove :) |
| 04:06.19 | starseeker | I'll run the benchmark from the /var/tmp/portage directory - it did compile. |
| 04:07.42 | starseeker | I think that sandbox feature is responsible for more Makefile cleanups... |
| 04:07.55 | brlcad | that was a 1-char typo :) |
| 04:08.00 | starseeker | Hehehe |
| 04:08.07 | CIA-7 | BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/other/jove/Makefile.am: ACK, typo.. DESDIR != DESTDIR, fix sandbox error |
| 04:08.23 | starseeker | maybe slip in a new 7.8.2 tarball unnoticed? ;-) |
| 04:08.30 | brlcad | heh |
| 04:08.59 | brlcad | nah, ebuild should use --disable-jove |
| 04:09.09 | starseeker | jove isn't essential? |
| 04:09.15 | brlcad | heck no |
| 04:09.25 | starseeker | ok, updating... |
| 04:09.39 | brlcad | it would have been removed from the package a long time ago, but it's an editor.. |
| 04:09.50 | brlcad | and brl-cad has provided it for a very long time.. |
| 04:10.05 | brlcad | ever try to get some unix guy to use a different editor? :-) |
| 04:10.40 | starseeker | It's a little like trying to reason with an Middle Eastern fanatic, actually |
| 04:10.47 | brlcad | let the vi vs emacs vs nano vs pico vs ed wars commence! |
| 04:11.32 | starseeker | OK, one more time (as soon as the benchmark is done) |
| 04:11.35 | brlcad | not so important for "external" or "new" users .. especially packaging systems like portage |
| 04:12.10 | starseeker | OK. Shouldn't be a problem. |
| 04:12.43 | starseeker | They're unlikely to include my ebuild anyway, since I"m content to go with the use everything option and ignore trying to get it working with external tcl/tk |
| 04:13.08 | starseeker | I'll post it, so that one guy can insult it and write a better one again ;-) |
| 04:13.15 | brlcad | heh |
| 04:14.08 | brlcad | well the external tcl/tk thing really isn't going to work until some source mods are made at least to that tk component that requires the private headers but probably also to the package search rules for mged, btclsh, and bwish |
| 04:15.04 | starseeker | Any thought to using something other than tcl/tk? (I know that's a lot of needless work, I just had to ask ;-) |
| 04:15.16 | brlcad | of course |
| 04:15.50 | starseeker | Benchmark results indicate an approximate VGR performance metric of 1510 |
| 04:15.56 | brlcad | it would be a monumental effort to actually replace tcl/tk (several man-years of works) entirely |
| 04:16.08 | starseeker | Eeeeep. |
| 04:16.42 | brlcad | the 'plan' though is to leave the tools that use it as-is (i.e. leave mged alone) and develop new tools that don't have the dependency |
| 04:16.51 | starseeker | We'll schedule that for when Tim Daly begins turning BRL-CAD into a literate programming project ;-) |
| 04:16.57 | starseeker | Ah, OK. |
| 04:17.16 | brlcad | more to the point, a new modeler -- it's actually one of the utmost highest priority development items |
| 04:17.40 | starseeker | Solidworks type UI, or something totally new? |
| 04:19.15 | starseeker | Actually, I guess Solidworks is actually a different kind of CAD? |
| 04:19.46 | brlcad | <PROTECTED> |
| 04:19.52 | starseeker | Cool :-) |
| 04:20.07 | brlcad | solidworks is a different kind of cad slightly, but they do overlap somewhat with the domain |
| 04:20.22 | brlcad | others would be unigraphics, pro/engineer, catia |
| 04:20.56 | starseeker | are they capable of different things, or is it more a "different design philosophy" sort of difference? |
| 04:21.07 | starseeker | (sorry for the dorky questions) |
| 04:21.11 | brlcad | both actually |
| 04:21.16 | brlcad | nah, fine questions |
| 04:21.55 | brlcad | if you get into the research, there was a big debate 15+ years ago regarding geometric representations, implicit vs explicit, brep vs csg, etc |
| 04:22.16 | starseeker | From what little I have seen of solidworks, it seems to have some fairly good tools for taking a solid and "cutting and shaping" the geometry in precise ways, but that's about all I know about it. |
| 04:22.16 | brlcad | most of the commercial systems went explicit and brep, brl-cad went implicit and csg |
| 04:22.24 | starseeker | Ah :-) |
| 04:22.38 | brlcad | since then, both realized the benefits of having both and have moved towards hybrid systems |
| 04:22.54 | starseeker | Heh - that must have upset a lot of academics :-) |
| 04:23.05 | starseeker | nobody wins the total victory ;-) |
| 04:23.10 | brlcad | the commercial guys have invested a lot more time/money into being hybrid, brl-cad to a lesser extent though it is something that needs to continue |
| 04:24.13 | brlcad | i.e. brl-cad actually has pretty extensive support for breps and explicit representations, it's just not well exposed by the modeling tools to say the least and not well developed/debugged/etc |
| 04:24.52 | brlcad | the other big difference is feature-wise -- the big names in the industry have massive purses, massive dev teams |
| 04:24.53 | starseeker | Ah. So the 1st 90% is done, there's just that last 10% that takes 90% of the time? ;-) |
| 04:24.57 | starseeker | true |
| 04:25.00 | brlcad | implementing a "full" CAD system is incredibly expensive |
| 04:25.21 | brlcad | it's the only reason that no open source project has even come close to touching the domain before brl-cad was released as open source |
| 04:25.43 | brlcad | and brl-cad has 20 years investment with some pretty top-notch mathematical talent and programming teams behind it |
| 04:25.52 | starseeker | I suspected something of the sort when I started looking around for one |
| 04:26.08 | starseeker | Mike Myers was involved, IIRC? |
| 04:26.27 | brlcad | and we're dwarfed by the big names when it comes to domains we don't regularly deal with |
| 04:26.40 | starseeker | only natural |
| 04:27.28 | brlcad | drafting, machining, part designing, finite element analyses .. all things we don't "do" well and with each one of those is a long associated feature list |
| 04:27.54 | brlcad | Mike Muuss was the primary brains behind brl-cad's origins |
| 04:28.01 | starseeker | Oh, sorry :-) |
| 04:28.09 | starseeker | wrong MIke |
| 04:28.22 | brlcad | mike myers is a comedian actor ;) |
| 04:28.49 | starseeker | or coffee |
| 04:29.11 | brlcad | i actually have to head off for a bit myself too |
| 04:29.25 | starseeker | OK - did you want the optimized results? |
| 04:29.26 | brlcad | good talking with you again as always |
| 04:29.30 | starseeker | same here |
| 04:29.37 | brlcad | sure |
| 04:29.50 | starseeker | Righto - do I copy the terminal output or is there a file? |
| 04:29.55 | brlcad | send me your 'summary' file |
| 04:30.10 | brlcad | along with the details of your system and compilation options |
| 04:30.20 | starseeker | OK, I'll see what I can dig up. |
| 04:30.30 | brlcad | /proc/cpuinfo, uname -a, and gcc optimization flags |
| 04:30.49 | starseeker | OK. I've got them defined in make.conf - does brlcad add any on its own? |
| 04:31.26 | brlcad | with --enable-optimized it does |
| 04:31.34 | brlcad | here we go |
| 04:31.38 | brlcad | # 0) Operating system type and version (e.g. uname -a) |
| 04:31.41 | brlcad | # 1) Compiler name and version (e.g. gcc --version) |
| 04:31.44 | brlcad | # 2) CPU configuration (e.g. cat /proc/cpuinfo or hinv or sysctl -a) |
| 04:31.48 | brlcad | # 3) Cache (data and/or instruction) details for L1/L2/L3 and system |
| 04:31.51 | brlcad | # (e.g. cat /proc/cpuinfo or hinv or sysctl -a) |
| 04:31.54 | brlcad | # 4) Output from this script (e.g. ./run.sh > run.sh.log 2>&1) |
| 04:31.57 | brlcad | # 5) All generated log files (e.g. *.log* after running run.sh) |
| 04:32.00 | brlcad | # 6) Anything else you think might be relevant to performance |
| 04:32.24 | starseeker | Where is run.sh? |
| 04:32.25 | brlcad | forget 4 and 5, the 'summary' file will do just fine ;) |
| 04:32.29 | starseeker | ah :-) |
| 04:32.37 | starseeker | OK, will do. |
| 04:32.52 | starseeker | the benchmark email is still the one to use? |
| 04:33.03 | brlcad | yeah, that's perfect |
| 04:33.29 | starseeker | OK. Watch the ebuild bug report - I'll post something once it actually builds and start the fight again :-) Have a good one! |
| 04:34.29 | brlcad | sounds good |
| 04:34.35 | brlcad | thanks again, good stuff |
| 04:34.41 | brlcad | already found one bug/typo :) |
| 04:35.20 | starseeker | I've done worse for an evening ;-) |
| 04:36.01 | starseeker | I'll probably wait on the ebuild until I'm sure my system is stable - I'm still trying to recover from that expat upgrade |
| 04:36.25 | starseeker | I think another two days or so |
| 04:36.34 | brlcad | cool |
| 04:37.17 | starseeker | Thanks for all the work you've put in on this - great stuff! |
| 04:37.46 | brlcad | it'll be awesome to finally have it in portage stable |
| 04:37.48 | starseeker | (nosy question I can't resist) what are the schedule plans for the modeler? |
| 04:39.36 | brlcad | it's on-going development as time permits .. when I'm not dealing with issues/releases/support I work on it, working towards a streamlined 'demo' or 'alpha' so devs can jump in and get involved easily |
| 04:40.23 | brlcad | hoping by this fall to have something that will actually run and maybe show geometry with some basic functionality |
| 04:40.30 | starseeker | neat. What language are you looking at? |
| 04:41.09 | brlcad | the overarching design criteria is that it's being treated as if it were a commercial cross-platform game |
| 04:41.38 | starseeker | "Run well everywhere effortlessly?" |
| 04:41.49 | brlcad | C++ is the primary language, built on top of BRL-CAD's existing C libraries and binaries |
| 04:42.46 | starseeker | Hmm. QT4 or WxWidgets sound like logical matches, although I have to admit a preference for QT4. Is VTK usable for modeling display? |
| 04:43.24 | brlcad | there is a fundamental plugin/scripting interface that will provide bindings for several languages at runtime including python, tcl, and bash for starters (and maybe perl and lisp) |
| 04:43.36 | starseeker | Lisp? COOOOL! |
| 04:44.14 | starseeker | (ok, benchmark sent, I think.) |
| 04:44.18 | brlcad | vtk is viable, though it's got a plethora of issues (would you expect any game to use vtk? :) |
| 04:44.45 | starseeker | I must admit that's one thing I haven't seen it do yet ;-) |
| 04:44.57 | starseeker | I think blender can develop games though |
| 04:45.01 | brlcad | similar issue with wxwidgets |
| 04:46.39 | brlcad | blender basically has a python runtime engine driving that game engine |
| 04:46.47 | starseeker | Eeep. |
| 04:47.42 | starseeker | So much for that then... does the c++ code in blender have anything useful? |
| 04:48.06 | brlcad | some aspects potentially |
| 04:49.06 | starseeker | http://www.blender.org/cms/typo3temp/pics/2123f2bd80.jpg is impressive enough, I guess |
| 04:50.30 | brlcad | that's actually not that complex of a model |
| 04:50.55 | starseeker | Wow. |
| 04:51.13 | starseeker | I guess that stands to reason though - assembly lines and such have thousands of parts |
| 04:51.25 | brlcad | they also don't deal at all with solid modeling really, there's no geometric guarantees, no ability to analyse the geometry correctly with guarantees |
| 04:51.38 | starseeker | Ah. |
| 04:51.56 | brlcad | just a bunch of surfaces |
| 04:52.14 | brlcad | "mostly" connected, no insides, no concept of "material" |
| 04:52.38 | starseeker | Ouch. |
| 04:52.46 | brlcad | interferences, geometric construction for an analytic purpose |
| 04:53.00 | starseeker | that all happens at the UI level? |
| 04:53.24 | brlcad | there is some folks looking into adding CAD and solid modeling capabilities into blender, but the approach is rather fundamentally flawed |
| 04:53.26 | starseeker | Well, I guess at a minimum you'd need the UI to be aware of it |
| 04:53.40 | brlcad | what blender does have is a pretty mature UI |
| 04:54.05 | brlcad | their target market though is more in line with products like maya and lightwave |
| 04:54.20 | brlcad | you'd never think of using maya or lightwave in place of unigraphics or pro/engineer :) |
| 04:54.29 | brlcad | though all four are "modelers" |
| 04:55.00 | starseeker | So are unigraphics and pro/engineer kind of a "superset" of the maya/lightwave world? |
| 04:55.12 | brlcad | not really |
| 04:55.45 | brlcad | there are things that maya, lightwave and the sort do very very well that are practially not possible with a solid modeling system and vice versa |
| 04:56.23 | brlcad | the focus is on easily making things that "look" good when rendered (e.g. for a movie) |
| 04:56.45 | brlcad | so it doesn't matter if it's physically correct beyond basic behaviors and appaearance |
| 04:56.54 | starseeker | Oh, so they have different optimizations in their design (the emphasis on surfaces) |
| 04:57.06 | brlcad | solid modelers have the entirely opposite focus -- physical representation is paramount |
| 04:57.50 | starseeker | so solid modelers don't handle things like surface reflectivity? |
| 04:57.53 | brlcad | as the purpose is rarely just to make it look good -- usually the primary purpose is a simulation/analysis, or machining, or designing something that will be manufactured, etc |
| 04:58.09 | starseeker | right |
| 04:58.41 | brlcad | they can and most do as that's pretty based (brl-cad does for example), but it's not a major feature |
| 04:58.57 | starseeker | OK. |
| 04:59.46 | starseeker | Well, I've got a 6:30am meeting, so I'd better hit the hay :-) Thanks a lot for the help with basic ideas! |
| 05:00.11 | brlcad | no problem, cheers! |
| 13:56.20 | CIA-7 | BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/BUGS: usage of lt says 'lt object' yet if you actually type that you get a bus error.. nice. |
| 13:57.11 | CIA-7 | BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/NEWS: fixed asc-nmg manual page usage examples |
| 13:58.14 | CIA-7 | BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/conv/asc-nmg.1: fixed asc-nmg manual page usage examples, it doesn't take stdin and output to stdout, but if you provide both file names it works (it will take stdin, but then you can't specify output file) |
| 13:59.10 | CIA-7 | BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/libbu/bitv.c: ws |
| 14:21.03 | CIA-7 | BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/rt/do.c: |
| 14:21.03 | CIA-7 | BRL-CAD: gah, don't reset the view scale.. it might have been specifically set to |
| 14:21.03 | CIA-7 | BRL-CAD: something else. instead call do_ae() now instead of waiting for end. this |
| 14:21.03 | CIA-7 | BRL-CAD: still doesn't work right as do_ae does its own autoview on the geometry and |
| 14:21.03 | CIA-7 | BRL-CAD: resizes, but at least ae command doesn't override now |
| 14:23.35 | CIA-7 | BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/NEWS: rt command script 'ae' no longer resets view scale |
| 14:52.38 | CIA-7 | BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/ (5 files in 3 dirs): |
| 14:52.38 | CIA-7 | BRL-CAD: bigger, better vi command line editing in mged provided by james (swcto). this |
| 14:52.38 | CIA-7 | BRL-CAD: adds command history searching as well as pretty much full vi-mode command |
| 14:52.38 | CIA-7 | BRL-CAD: editing. (sf patch 1377410 - Bigger, Better vi command line editing) |
| 14:54.07 | CIA-7 | BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/NEWS: james made it command edit history searching |
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| 15:52.22 | CIA-7 | BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/mged/ged.c: add support for the Mac delete key (backwards and forwards should work now). also fix vi command line editing mode history, quell warnings, pass null parameter. |
| 15:53.54 | CIA-7 | BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/NEWS: improved support for Mac 'delete' keys in mged |
| 15:56.42 | CIA-7 | BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/mged/ged.c: prevent a bus error if read() returns -1 when reading from the provided file descriptor |
| 16:01.11 | CIA-7 | BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/tclscripts/mged/openw.tcl: set the default number of scrollback lines in mged to 10k instead of 1k |
| 16:04.20 | CIA-7 | BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/NEWS: |
| 16:04.21 | CIA-7 | BRL-CAD: increase default mged line scrollback to 10,000 lines instead of the previous |
| 16:04.21 | CIA-7 | BRL-CAD: 1000.. too many commands and listings fill up the 1000 count. users can still |
| 16:04.21 | CIA-7 | BRL-CAD: override that default on the fly in their .mgedrc or on the command line. |
| 16:07.10 | CIA-7 | BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/other/jove/jove_term.c: |
| 16:07.10 | CIA-7 | BRL-CAD: prevent jove from crashing on SGI Altix due to clamping the tgetstr pointer to |
| 16:07.10 | CIA-7 | BRL-CAD: 32-bit when it needs to be 64-bit. this requires actually including the right |
| 16:07.10 | CIA-7 | BRL-CAD: headers so that tgetstr is properly declared, but declare it to what it should |
| 16:07.10 | CIA-7 | BRL-CAD: be regardless since.. this is jove. |
| 16:08.52 | CIA-7 | BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/NEWS: ported jove to SGI Altix platform, fixed crash bug. |
| 16:11.54 | CIA-7 | BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/rt/opt.c: initialize a slew of uninitialized values using proper casts for the fastf_t types. uninitialized garbage was causing debug and runtime problems on altix |
| 16:18.09 | CIA-7 | BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/rt/do.c: check and see if the eye point was set to something different than the look at point, otherwise choose a default 'front' view just to pick a direction. also, make sure rtip is valid before checking lists |
| 17:08.39 | CIA-7 | BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/regress/Makefile.am: additional testing files that need to get cleaned up |
| 19:40.30 | IriX64 | guys whats am-refresh and does it matter if it didn't get built? |
| 19:50.57 | brlcad | am-refresh is an internal automake rule that checks/updates the Makefiles if a dependency is updated (like editing a Makefile.am) |
| 19:51.51 | brlcad | it shouldn't be necessary at all |
| 19:54.30 | IriX64 | thankyou |
| 20:22.38 | IriX64 | brb |
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| 23:08.58 | CIA-9 | BRL-CAD: 03johnranderson * 10brlcad/src/mged/grid.c: |
| 23:08.58 | CIA-9 | BRL-CAD: Fix for bug #1233930 (grid zoom out hangs) |
| 23:08.58 | CIA-9 | BRL-CAD: Problem was integer overflow. |
| 23:08.58 | CIA-9 | BRL-CAD: Fix was to check for negative integer. A better algorithm for deciding when |
| 23:08.58 | CIA-9 | BRL-CAD: the grid should not be drawn is needed here. |
| 23:12.36 | brlcad | and john continues to rock |
| 23:38.10 | ``Erik | the man is an artist |
| 23:41.18 | ``Erik | I wish he woulda taken his vsip and had a little fun :/ |
| 23:51.22 | ``Erik | he coulda bought that solstace he wanted outright, heh |
| 01:15.01 | CIA-9 | BRL-CAD: 03johnranderson * 10brlcad/src/mged/grid.c: |
| 01:15.01 | CIA-9 | BRL-CAD: Improved algorithm for deciding when to not draw the grid. Now compares pixel size to |
| 01:15.01 | CIA-9 | BRL-CAD: grid spacing instead of calculating number of dots. |
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| 02:05.08 | ``Erik | jra is starting to skeer me. |
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| 16:22.36 | IriX64 | well ive compiled my brlcad-7.8.0, now how do i use it? |
| 16:25.29 | IriX64 | mged comes up and so does the graphics window. |
| 16:25.59 | IriX64 | tried to load moss.g and it loaded but i cant see it. |
| 16:27.48 | IriX64 | ahooga klaxon ahooga is any body home? |
| 16:28.54 | IriX64 | ah i see, my clientt throws you. |
| 16:29.45 | IriX64 | ill return with something more to your liking. |
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| 16:42.34 | IriX64 | id really like to see this world on a platter guys. |
| 17:03.32 | brlcad | run 'tops' to get a list of the top-level geometry |
| 17:03.38 | brlcad | then run 'e something' to display one of them |
| 17:04.11 | brlcad | highly recommended (pretty much required) that you go through the tutorials on the website http://brlcad.org |
| 17:04.11 | IriX64 | thankyou. |
| 17:04.47 | brlcad | moss world isn't incredibly exciting.. :) more interesting might be havoc |
| 17:08.22 | IriX64 | loaded galileo |
| 17:08.22 | IriX64 | thanks i will go thru those tutorials. |
| 17:08.22 | IriX64 | should be able to raytrace these right? |
| 17:10.09 | IriX64 | beautiful |
| 17:19.59 | ``Erik | ya missed lunch, sean :D jra joined |
| 18:43.18 | CIA-9 | BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/AUTHORS: add James (swcto - someone who cares) to the list of code contributors for his work on the mged vi mode enhancements |
| 18:47.21 | CIA-9 | BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/HACKING: finish up the list of expectations with a rule zero utilizing a concept from Hippocrates' Epidemics: contributors are expected to help, or at least to do no harm. |
| 19:15.52 | IriX64 | how do you render ms. April ;) |
| 19:16.54 | brlcad | rendering her is easy, getting ahold of her .g file is what can be tricky ;) |
| 19:17.37 | IriX64 | it's all in the attitude :) |
| 19:20.36 | IriX64 | awwww man, pdf files? ill just bug you :) |
| 19:22.36 | IriX64 | whats the gist of all that licensing stuff, in a nutshell. |
| 19:46.23 | brlcad | what licensing stuff? |
| 19:46.53 | brlcad | what would you rather have seen over pdf files? the tutorials are books |
| 19:47.41 | brlcad | you can actually get them in printed versions too, but the pdfs are provided for convenience |
| 20:09.09 | IriX64 | hah i was just kidding about the pdf stuff but the licence for example can i sell binaries? |
| 20:10.12 | IriX64 | I know the source cant be charged for but the binaries *I* produce can i charge for them? |
| 20:10.13 | ``Erik | http://www.gnu.org/licenses/gpl-faq.html covers the gpl parts of it, I THINK that's the most stringent license used in that regard? |
| 20:14.59 | IriX64 | ah ok i can "distribute free software for a fee" neat. |
| 20:16.43 | IriX64 | gotta run , may I return later? |
| 20:18.45 | ``Erik | no, no you may not! |
| 20:18.46 | ``Erik | heh |
| 20:19.29 | archivist | generally expected to be the cost of distribution, does he think he is going to get rich |
| 20:46.39 | brlcad | probably |
| 20:49.45 | ``Erik | sean, HACKING :471 doesn't seem worded right o.O should it be something like "inside parens"? |
| 21:00.59 | CIA-9 | BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/HACKING: heh, around means immediately inside -- go figure. give a couple more examples while we're at it. |
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| 22:12.46 | IriX64 | regards again. |
| 22:16.28 | IriX64 | did we ever figure out a way to unlock ms. aprils .g file ;) |
| 22:18.50 | IriX64 | make |
| 22:19.09 | IriX64 | fark :( |
| 22:21.30 | IriX64 | cleverly programmed into each make session is a trip to the px for refreshments :) |
| 22:22.25 | IriX64 | in other words i'll be back in 30. |
| 22:47.47 | IriX64 | good sandwich, should have stayed longer. |
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| 22:52.35 | IriX64 | is that pdp11/70 in the screen shot of muss working on the pdp still active? |
| 23:00.41 | brlcad | IriX64: no, it was decommissioned a few years ago |
| 23:00.55 | IriX64 | really, what do you use now? |
| 23:00.56 | brlcad | pieces of it are still available |
| 23:01.08 | IriX64 | ill take the switch panel :) |
| 23:02.14 | IriX64 | retired tho. |
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| 02:08.02 | CIA-9 | BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/doc/description.txt: |
| 02:08.02 | CIA-9 | BRL-CAD: Fill in ALL of the description details about BRL-CAD including different length |
| 02:08.02 | CIA-9 | BRL-CAD: description formats useful when preparing materials for informational websites, |
| 02:08.02 | CIA-9 | BRL-CAD: software distribution sites, package management systems, release announcement |
| 02:08.02 | CIA-9 | BRL-CAD: materials, and more. includes links to frequently needed materials like the |
| 02:08.04 | CIA-9 | BRL-CAD: trackers, keywords/categories, and details on how to correctly refer to the |
| 02:08.06 | CIA-9 | BRL-CAD: project and even how to pronounce BRL-CAD. |
| 02:12.14 | CIA-9 | BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/README: |
| 02:12.14 | CIA-9 | BRL-CAD: rewrite the introduction, using the new doc/description.txt details. now |
| 02:12.14 | CIA-9 | BRL-CAD: includes the portability heritage and portability details, details on the |
| 02:12.14 | CIA-9 | BRL-CAD: geometry representation types, and expanded details on what is provided |
| 02:12.15 | CIA-9 | BRL-CAD: tool-wise |
| 02:24.20 | CIA-9 | BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/INSTALL: |
| 02:24.20 | CIA-9 | BRL-CAD: too many impatient folks don't actually read the Installing from Binary section |
| 02:24.20 | CIA-9 | BRL-CAD: and try to run configure/autogen.sh on a binary distribution so try to make it |
| 02:24.20 | CIA-9 | BRL-CAD: more clear up-front in the Quick Installation section, and move the binary |
| 02:24.20 | CIA-9 | BRL-CAD: instructions up higher in the file. |
| 02:37.42 | CIA-9 | BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/TODO: a quick means to generate a testing suite for all binaries with a little scripting |
| 02:59.54 | CIA-9 | BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/NEWS: john fixed the mged hang caused by extreme grid zooming bug (sf bug #1233930). Problem was integer overflow, Fix was to check for negative integer. |
| 03:03.45 | CIA-9 | BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/NEWS: john continues to rock, provided improved mged grid zooming using pixel size to grid spacing instead of calculating the number of dots. this was a follow up to sf bug #1233930. |
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| 11:25.16 | CIA-9 | BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/misc/rcs2log: add rcs2log for convenience, pulled from the cvs contrib directory, in case the local system doesn't happen to have rcs2log available. |
| 11:26.58 | CIA-9 | BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/misc/Makefile.am: include cvs2cl.pl and rcs2log in source distributions |
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| 15:40.23 | igotbsd | Hi All |
| 15:42.23 | igotbsd | I'm googling for a dual cpu mobo to run fbsd and brlcad on, and it seems to me that several models of Tyan are in the money, any suggestions?, TIA |
| 15:49.50 | *** part/#brlcad igotbsd (n=ricardo@adsl-8-134-73.mia.bellsouth.net) | |
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| 17:01.49 | IriX64 | regards. |
| 17:02.11 | IriX64 | you were right Havoc.g is far more interesting :) |
| 17:04.13 | IriX64 | total time to raytrace = 40 seconds, not bad at all. |
| 17:05.22 | IriX64 | rendering to the tube, gotta love it. |
| 17:05.54 | IriX64 | hahaha a glass plotter, oy vey. |
| 17:07.02 | IriX64 | if only u could see my screen when i bring it up, you would i think like it. |
| 17:08.23 | IriX64 | busily compiling my latest attempt. |
| 17:09.41 | IriX64 | sigh 45 minute compile, and another ten minutes to install. |
| 17:13.49 | IriX64 | i think i'll take that coffee break you guys compiled into brlcad :) |
| 17:49.04 | ``Erik | get a faster machine? heh |
| 17:50.19 | IriX64 | man shes a 2.4 AMD64 model 3800+ |
| 17:52.13 | IriX64 | but shes installing it now |
| 17:52.30 | IriX64 | man i broke your havoc, i put a pipe in the blades :( |
| 17:53.00 | IriX64 | you were right moss.g is less impressive. |
| 17:53.13 | IriX64 | still wanna see april.g tho ;) |
| 17:53.35 | IriX64 | castle is nice |
| 18:03.56 | ``Erik | ktank, w00t |
| 19:17.29 | IriX64 | ktank w33t |
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| 08:38.52 | IriX64 | ms april sends a sloppy wet kiss :) |
| 08:40.51 | IriX64 | brlcad rocks and rolls, kudos to ypu people. |
| 09:50.54 | IriX64 | is BrlCad-7.9.0 acceptable as a new version number? :) |
| 10:49.31 | IriX64 | make install |
| 10:49.44 | IriX64 | sorry. |
| 10:50.17 | IriX64 | have you read Fatso? |
| 10:50.20 | IriX64 | :) |
| 10:51.10 | IriX64 | you know the admiral in charge of the incerator on the aircraft carrier ;) |
| 10:51.58 | IriX64 | you should see my dirty tricks squad. :) |
| 11:04.20 | IriX64 | cd /usr/brlcad/bin |
| 11:04.38 | IriX64 | :( |
| 13:45.12 | brlcad | heh |
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| 02:02.13 | CIA-9 | BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/doc/pad_file.xml.in: (log message trimmed) |
| 02:02.13 | CIA-9 | BRL-CAD: Add an initial PAD template file for BRL-CAD. The version and date details are |
| 02:02.13 | CIA-9 | BRL-CAD: filled in by configure so that the file doesn't have to keep getting updated |
| 02:02.14 | CIA-9 | BRL-CAD: (needs more work) during release time. This file is used by a lot of on-line |
| 02:02.14 | CIA-9 | BRL-CAD: distribution sites (predominantly by shareware distributors, but others |
| 02:02.16 | CIA-9 | BRL-CAD: including open source too), so that it is easier to add the package to those |
| 02:02.18 | CIA-9 | BRL-CAD: on-line distribution sites. PAD is Portable Application Description, an XML |
| 02:04.46 | CIA-9 | BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/doc/Makefile.am: add pad_file.xml.in to the dist and clean up after it on a distclean |
| 02:05.48 | CIA-9 | BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/configure.ac: calculate the day, month, year individually so that they may be substituted into autoconf template files. add doc/pad_file.xml to the list of generated files |
| 02:07.59 | CIA-9 | BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/TODO: clone is a priority for end-of-iteration, anything else is going to be gravy |
| 02:08.49 | *** mode/#brlcad [+o brlcad] by ChanServ | |
| 02:11.40 | brlcad | ~topic restore 1 |
| 02:11.40 | *** topic/#brlcad by ibot -> http://brlcad.org/ || BRL-CAD is an open source solid modeling software suite || Developers needed! Read the HACKING file for details on getting involved || Release 7.8.2 expected on or about June 7th | |
| 02:12.17 | *** topic/#brlcad by ibot -> http://brlcad.org/ || BRL-CAD is an open source solid modeling software suite || Developers needed! Read the HACKING file for details on getting involved | |
| 02:41.27 | CIA-9 | BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/mged/ged.c: er, unless i'm blind, there's no difference between the _WIN32 and non-_WIN32 section. collapse into one |
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| 14:36.25 | CIA-9 | BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/librt/db_io.c: comment that db_getmrec loads records into a buffer in v4 format |
| 15:21.34 | CIA-9 | BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/mged/clone.c: |
| 15:21.34 | CIA-9 | BRL-CAD: begin efforts to port clone and tracker towards supporting v5 databases. the |
| 15:21.34 | CIA-9 | BRL-CAD: db_getmrec() function and associated union records are v4 specific structures |
| 15:21.34 | CIA-9 | BRL-CAD: that don't apply to v5 so it basically needs to be reimplemented from scratch.. |
| 15:21.34 | CIA-9 | BRL-CAD: start by initializing all pointers to NULL and getting rid of the useless |
| 15:21.36 | CIA-9 | BRL-CAD: propagation of ClientData. |
| 15:23.05 | CIA-9 | BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/librt/db_walk.c: ws |
| 16:01.29 | CIA-9 | BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/mged/clone.c: |
| 16:01.29 | CIA-9 | BRL-CAD: another restructuring step. propagate a resource pointer for librt and don't |
| 16:01.29 | CIA-9 | BRL-CAD: pass around the tcl interpreter directly so that we can use thses functions |
| 16:01.29 | CIA-9 | BRL-CAD: directly as db_functree callbacks (instead stash the interp into our state |
| 16:01.29 | CIA-9 | BRL-CAD: client data structure). |
| 16:26.10 | CIA-9 | BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/mged/clone.c: |
| 16:26.10 | CIA-9 | BRL-CAD: one more restructuring step, this time propagating the dbip so that the copy_ |
| 16:26.10 | CIA-9 | BRL-CAD: functions have the right signature to be used as a db_functree callback. |
| 16:26.10 | CIA-9 | BRL-CAD: instead of proliferating the usage of the dbip global pointer even further, only |
| 16:26.10 | CIA-9 | BRL-CAD: the top-level hook functions use the global then all other routines are using |
| 16:26.13 | CIA-9 | BRL-CAD: the one passed as an argument (denoted with _dbip instead of dbip to avoid |
| 16:26.15 | CIA-9 | BRL-CAD: shadowing). |
| 18:08.19 | CIA-9 | BRL-CAD: 03bob1961 * 10brlcad/src/tclscripts/archer/images/aboutArcher.png: Update with latest BRL-CAD logo. |
| 18:30.15 | CIA-9 | BRL-CAD: 03bob1961 * 10brlcad/src/tclscripts/archer/Archer.tcl: Tweaks for IVAVIEW/Sdb mode. Modify the importFg4Sections method (i.e. no longer calling _select_node). |
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| 14:25.16 | CIA-9 | BRL-CAD: 03bob1961 * 10brlcad/src/mged/ged.c: Minor fix in log_event for _WIN32. |
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| 12:26.24 | Open2000 | hello, surprized to see so much users on this channel :) |
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| 12:40.46 | CIA-9 | BRL-CAD: 03bob1961 * 10brlcad/src/tclscripts/archer/Archer.tcl: Added the option to show viewing parameters in the display window. |
| 12:44.33 | CIA-9 | BRL-CAD: 03bob1961 * 10brlcad/src/tclscripts/lib/View.tcl: Modified the ae method to call the view object's ae command when getting the azel. |
| 12:46.09 | CIA-9 | BRL-CAD: 03bob1961 * 10brlcad/src/tclscripts/lib/Display.tcl: Added code for displaying the viewing parameters. |
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| 16:51.08 | digitalfredy | brlcad, ping |
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| 21:07.24 | *** topic/#brlcad is http://brlcad.org/ || BRL-CAD is an open source solid modeling software suite || Developers needed! Read the HACKING file for details on getting involved | |
| 00:19.42 | ``Erik | http://lists.grok.org.uk/pipermail/full-disclosure/2006-June/047380.html |
| 00:35.35 | ``Erik | http://qreeves.blogspot.com/2006/04/rob-levins-feenode.html |
| 00:35.36 | ``Erik | o.O |
| 00:35.39 | brlcad | that's just wrong |
| 00:39.51 | brlcad | it's the MS-equivalence of software FUD taken to a personal level |
| 00:40.32 | brlcad | lilo spends a LOT of time working on the network, it's just in ways many don't understand or at least appreciate |
| 00:42.22 | ``Erik | *shrug* I'm getting these from people who've fled... |
| 00:42.27 | brlcad | the second one is hilarious.. he created a bot to join all the channels, got lots of complaints from others on the network and then now screams bloody murder when they got fed up with his opt-out bot joining every channel on the network |
| 00:42.32 | ``Erik | he lurks in #scheme, but I don't follow this network |
| 00:42.59 | brlcad | i've interacted with lilo quite a lot over the years |
| 00:43.06 | brlcad | even talked to him on the phone for a while |
| 00:44.54 | brlcad | pretty straightforward guy with a vision for the network, dealing mostly with things from a "division" level if you get my meaning -- the problem with most have is that he doesn't have the geeky upbringing (which makes him pretty good at the management side in this instance imho) |
| 00:45.24 | brlcad | and he wants to fully fund this operation, starting from the top with himself, which most see as him just being lazy |
| 00:47.03 | brlcad | this network is contrary to most irc network "purists" (i.e. anarchists) too, and therein lies a huge taste of hatred fodder for a vast majority that didn't expect it |
| 00:47.24 | brlcad | he's seen as "the man" who puts them down when they don't get what they wanted/expected |
| 00:48.45 | ``Erik | <-- is an efnetter, born and raised... :/ |
| 00:49.01 | brlcad | services and staff are centralized, global notices, chan/nickserv's, all fuel for those that just don't get it -- those are things that I appreciate from the network actually, they are part of what make it sane for reasonable software development discussion |
| 00:49.20 | brlcad | even efnet is starting to centralize somewhat.. :) |
| 00:49.27 | brlcad | they're just way slower at it |
| 00:49.41 | brlcad | and have a lot more to fight and less reason to go that direction |
| 00:51.59 | brlcad | the biggest complaint I see and agreewith on the network is the changing of channel name convention to convey a classification |
| 00:52.26 | brlcad | the ## crap is rather counterproductive and useless imo |
| 00:54.57 | brlcad | GAH!.. |
| 00:55.17 | brlcad | why am I just now finding out about the FreeBSD Documentation License... |
| 00:57.36 | brlcad | hmm.. they're apparently not listed on the free content license list.. |
| 01:00.19 | ``Erik | cuz osi is a pack of gpl felating lamers? :D |
| 01:01.14 | ``Erik | damn I talk to some retarded people |
| 01:01.38 | brlcad | actually, even here.. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Open_content |
| 01:01.58 | brlcad | unless i'm just not seeing it |
| 01:02.16 | brlcad | hmm, it is listed on the gnu site, but I must have missed it there |
| 01:02.36 | brlcad | i'm not entirely content with brl-cad's current licensing on the documentation |
| 01:05.53 | ``Erik | what are they now? the gnu doc license? |
| 01:06.02 | brlcad | dual-licensed |
| 01:06.08 | ``Erik | ... being? |
| 01:06.08 | ``Erik | :D |
| 01:06.14 | brlcad | gfdl and gpl |
| 01:06.25 | ``Erik | looked at 'creative commons license'? |
| 01:07.12 | brlcad | yeah |
| 01:07.40 | brlcad | heh, it's funny if you read gnu.org they are quite at odds with not putting the CC license up there that ARE compatible |
| 01:07.46 | brlcad | just bitching about the ones that aren't :) |
| 01:08.24 | ``Erik | read anything on the most recent stink against the gpl? |
| 01:08.39 | ``Erik | "all things on linux must be gpl'd"? |
| 01:17.30 | brlcad | no, haven't |
| 01:17.37 | brlcad | who's purporting that? |
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| 16:27.07 | CIA-9 | BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/NEWS: archer enhancements for displaying view parameters and updated archer splash screen from Bob |
| 16:44.22 | CIA-9 | BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/misc/win32-msvc/vers.vbs: file didn't exist before 2005 |
| 16:47.45 | CIA-9 | BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/misc/win32-msvc/brlcad.dsw: s/\n/\x0D\x0A/g i.e. convert the UNIX line endings to DOS line endings. this is needed to make the MSVC6 Studio environment happy -- converted per Daniel's insight. |
| 16:54.23 | CIA-9 | BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/misc/win32-msvc/Dll/ (brlcad.def brlcad.dsp brlcad.rc): s/\n/\x0D\x0A/g i.e. convert the UNIX line endings to DOS line endings. this is needed to make the MSVC6 Studio environment happy -- converted per Daniel's insight. |
| 17:16.17 | CIA-9 | BRL-CAD: 03bob1961 * 10brlcad/src/other/blt/library/dd_protocols/Makefile.am: Add tclIndex to brlcadscript_SCRIPTS. |
| 17:18.57 | CIA-9 | BRL-CAD: 03bob1961 * 10brlcad/src/other/blt/library/Makefile.am: Add pkgIndex.tcl and tclIndex to brlcadscript_SCRIPTS. |
| 17:20.27 | CIA-9 | BRL-CAD: 03bob1961 * 10brlcad/src/other/blt/library/pkgIndex.tcl: Change default library path. |
| 17:25.48 | CIA-9 | BRL-CAD: 03bob1961 * 10brlcad/src/tclscripts/archer/cursor.tcl: Do a "package require" using BLT instead of blt for all platforms. If this works out, I need to come back and remove the conditional. |
| 17:27.05 | CIA-9 | BRL-CAD: 03bob1961 * 10brlcad/src/tclscripts/archer/Makefile.am: Added ShaderEdit.tcl to scripts. |
| 17:30.34 | CIA-9 | BRL-CAD: 03bob1961 * 10brlcad/src/librt/importFg4Section.c: Always compile the fastgen4 import stuff. |
| 17:33.05 | CIA-9 | BRL-CAD: 03bob1961 * 10brlcad/src/librt/wdb_obj.c: Always compile the fastgen4 import stuff. Also, if'out the prompt about hiding objects. |
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| 20:27.43 | IriX64 | wheres the brlcad help channel or is this it? |
| 20:46.27 | brlcad | this is it |
| 20:46.46 | IriX64 | thankyou, gotta run. |
| 20:46.48 | brlcad | anything and everything related to brl-cad |
| 00:04.24 | ``Erik | ... |
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| 09:30.59 | *** join/#brlcad chinamill (n=chinamil@h99n1c1o1110.bredband.skanova.com) | |
| 10:02.26 | chinamill | is there any nice support of making toolpaths and export to g-code with brlcad? |
| 13:10.53 | ``Erik | I don't believe so... one of the developers was working on a seperate tool called "gcam" to generate gcode... |
| 13:12.30 | ``Erik | http://gcam.js.cx/ |
| 13:47.58 | chinamill | Thanks for the tip Erik! |
| 15:18.03 | brlcad | chinamill: i can corroborate that as well.. there's not a means to directly export g-code with brl-cad right now, would be cool if someone added the support but it's not a trivial task and not high on the priority list atm |
| 15:18.54 | *** join/#brlcad cradek (n=chris@pdpc/supporter/active/cradek) | |
| 15:19.07 | brlcad | hello cradek |
| 15:19.11 | cradek | hi all |
| 15:20.00 | cradek | I'm a newbie to brlcad, and sorry if everyone says this, but I'm having problems compiling it, is there documentation other than http://brlcad.org/build_CVS.html I should be looking at? |
| 15:20.25 | brlcad | cradek: definitely -- see the INSTALL file for more comprehensive install instructions |
| 15:20.25 | cradek | (I get an autoheader failure from autogen.sh in step 2) |
| 15:20.48 | brlcad | there may also be a doc/README.[some_platform] file for your system with some details too |
| 15:21.06 | brlcad | autoheader failure.. wow |
| 15:21.27 | brlcad | run ./autogen.sh --verbose |
| 15:21.49 | cradek | running, I'll put the output on pastebin |
| 15:24.01 | cradek | http://pastebin.dyndns.org/305 |
| 15:24.03 | brlcad | for what it's worth, autogen.sh failure generally just means there's something wrong with your installed build tools (like an insufficient version of something in the GNU build system) |
| 15:24.22 | cradek | I am a longtime unix developer but have little experience with auto tools |
| 15:24.26 | brlcad | strictly speaking, if you're working from a source distribution (non-cvs), then you shouldn't need to run autogen.sh |
| 15:24.51 | brlcad | i.e. if you have a big ass configure file in the top level, then you probably don't need to run autogen.sh |
| 15:25.09 | brlcad | autogen.sh is only required if you've checked out from cvs or really just want to fully "start fresh" |
| 15:25.15 | cradek | ok, I am using cvs so far, if this isn't easy to fix I'll use a source distribution |
| 15:25.33 | chinamill | there is no rpm:s or similar? |
| 15:26.04 | brlcad | ahh.. configure.ac:1: error: possibly undefined macro: dnl |
| 15:27.05 | brlcad | that means autoconf install is somehow hosed or exceptionally old or running in 2.13 mode |
| 15:27.28 | cradek | Checking autoconf version: autoconf --version |
| 15:27.28 | cradek | Found GNU Autoconf version 2.59 |
| 15:28.00 | brlcad | this wouldn't happen to be debian sarge would it? |
| 15:28.07 | cradek | ubuntu 5.10 breezy |
| 15:28.14 | cradek | so ... sort of |
| 15:28.32 | brlcad | debian used to have a very broken autoconf wrapper script |
| 15:28.50 | brlcad | if you ran it directly, it would report the right version, then proceed to invoke the 2.13 autoconf |
| 15:29.19 | brlcad | that's sort of what seems like is going on here too |
| 15:29.54 | brlcad | another possibility is that you're simply missing the .m4 files for autoconf |
| 15:30.18 | cradek | I'll remove the autoconf2.13 package and hope for the best then |
| 15:30.28 | brlcad | if you have any other system that you can run autogen.sh on, that would also work -- it doesn't have to be run on the same machine, it can be run on any machine |
| 15:31.49 | brlcad | have to run out for a bit, bbl if you still have more issues autogen.sh'ing |
| 15:32.14 | cradek | no change when I remove autoconf2.13 |
| 15:32.45 | brlcad | then it must be some other misconfiguration (like the misplaced/uninstalled m4 files) |
| 15:33.23 | brlcad | someone in #ubuntu might have an idea as it used to be incredibly frequent when sarge was popular |
| 15:33.36 | cradek | ok thank you |
| 15:33.40 | brlcad | np |
| 15:39.10 | *** join/#brlcad SWPadnos (n=Me@dsl245.esjtvtli.sover.net) | |
| 15:40.45 | chinamill | ``Erik: do you have a emailadress for the gcam person? |
| 15:50.46 | *** join/#brlcad fenn (n=fenn@adsl-66-72-65-111.dsl.bltnin.ameritech.net) | |
| 15:51.00 | fenn | yum yum |
| 15:51.07 | fenn | so whats all this about gcam? |
| 15:51.37 | fenn | is it one of the brlcad developers? |
| 15:54.06 | chinamill | ``Erik said so |
| 16:14.56 | ``Erik | phark, whud ah miss? |
| 16:15.12 | ``Erik | the url doesn't have an email addy? |
| 16:16.07 | fenn | theres no contact info or anything substantial on the web page at all |
| 16:19.08 | ``Erik | huh |
| 16:22.25 | ``Erik | I sent him an aim msg, *shrug* he might not want to be bugged about it, or he might be interested in soliciting ideas and/or effort... but I wanna verify with him before doin' anything, ok? |
| 16:22.50 | Twingy | hey |
| 16:23.28 | chinamill | ``Erik: he is more than welcome to join #emc |
| 16:23.37 | fenn | it just seems weird to put up a webpage about an open source project and have no source code or download available |
| 16:23.59 | Twingy | it says it'll be avail in aug |
| 16:26.16 | ``Erik | heh |
| 16:26.43 | ``Erik | :) |
| 16:28.06 | ``Erik | twingy, you dont' have any wintergreen oil, do you? |
| 16:29.17 | Twingy | no |
| 16:29.41 | Twingy | got some WD40 though |
| 16:30.03 | ``Erik | tried it, bolts won't budge |
| 16:30.18 | Twingy | use a can of coke? |
| 16:30.40 | ``Erik | haven't tried that yet... supposedly wintergreen is the best, and vinegar is really good, with coke being somewhere below vinegar |
| 16:30.47 | Twingy | if you can figure out a way to let them soak in a pan for 30 minutes |
| 16:31.04 | Twingy | duct tape it, whatever |
| 16:31.14 | ``Erik | so I'm thinking about taking a cup of vinegar out with a brush, or mebbe rubber banding a soaked paper towel |
| 16:31.24 | fenn | turpentine |
| 16:31.32 | fenn | kroil is stupposed to be the best |
| 16:31.57 | Twingy | what are you guys planning to use gcam for? |
| 16:32.14 | fenn | making parts :) |
| 16:32.20 | ``Erik | and my dad was a jet mechanic for 20 yrs and a car mechanic before that, so I kinda trust him when he says wintergreen is the hshizzle forrizle |
| 16:32.35 | ``Erik | parts for what? :) |
| 16:33.13 | fenn | well, a cnc machine, some hydraulic valves for a robot, turbine engine parts, foam cores for composite layup |
| 16:33.20 | fenn | and on and on and on |
| 16:33.47 | ``Erik | hobbyist? or work? (if you dont' mind my asking) |
| 16:34.01 | fenn | i'm self employed but i dont make any money.. how's that |
| 16:34.19 | ``Erik | ah, heh... "interested student" ;) *duck* |
| 16:34.46 | fenn | though honestly gcam is not doing things the way i would have done them |
| 16:34.59 | ``Erik | huh, mind if I ask? |
| 16:35.36 | fenn | well the heart of a cam system is the toolpath planning algorithms |
| 16:36.04 | fenn | he seems to be starting off with basic stuff like 3d rendering |
| 16:36.28 | ``Erik | hm, 3d rendering, or basic object description? |
| 16:36.56 | ``Erik | <-- kinda thinks that tool path is one of those problems that the machine can solve and optimize, just tell it what shape you want to have and let it figure the way to make it... |
| 16:38.09 | fenn | i just think it would be smarter to use an already existing library for the 3d data structures and math |
| 16:38.52 | fenn | that's why i was asking all these questions about brlcad's libbn and such |
| 16:40.02 | ``Erik | math is well understood and reasonably easy to implement, tho... I mean, you can slap together solid vector and matrix functions in half a day of mindless work, so why induce a dependancy? |
| 16:40.12 | fenn | lol |
| 16:40.21 | ``Erik | <-- very much likes the idea of libraries, btw, is playing devils advocate |
| 16:41.27 | fenn | is there any interest in STEP import for brlcad? |
| 16:41.56 | ``Erik | in a decent operating system with a decent software install concept, dependancies are a non-issue... on fbsd, just type "make install" and it does it's think... :) I wouldn't mind seeing tcl and tk and itcl/itk, libpng, libz, etc ripped out of the brlcad distro... |
| 16:42.07 | ``Erik | what's "step"? I'm quite ignyant on these things, btw... |
| 16:42.23 | fenn | the file format to end all file formats |
| 16:42.29 | ``Erik | my major contribution so far has been redoing the build system, I don't have the foggiest clue how to model shit :) |
| 16:42.46 | ``Erik | that sounds... slightly biased. |
| 16:42.56 | fenn | for cad systems, it's sorta XML and is extendable to cover all aspects of cad/cae/cam |
| 16:43.23 | ``Erik | although I'm quite sure if someone were to provide the g-step and step-g program patch... it would be appreciated :) |
| 16:43.33 | SWPadnos | fenn, have you actually seen a STEP file spec? (I thought you had to pay, like ISO standards) |
| 16:43.59 | fenn | SWPadnos: there is a free "express schema" which is the basic xml description |
| 16:44.05 | SWPadnos | ah, OK |
| 16:44.08 | fenn | and also you can get preliminary standards for free |
| 16:44.18 | fenn | i havent actually sat down and looked at either of them |
| 16:45.05 | fenn | there is a nist project to convert express to xml |
| 16:45.35 | ``Erik | interoperability is generally a good thing *shrug* if you wanna code, go to it, and we'll even help ya some by answering questions when we can... if what you produce isn't shit, it may get accepted into the project... :) |
| 16:45.48 | fenn | heh thanks |
| 16:46.02 | fenn | i'm pretty new to XML and 3d programming in general |
| 16:49.14 | ``Erik | ok, if you have questions that you can't find through basic research, let us know, but dont' be offended if we tell you to go read manual XYZ :) |
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| 16:58.16 | ``Erik | (ohyeah, and if you do ask a question, be patient... it could be over 24 hours before you get a response... but some of us DO read all the backlog) |
| 17:00.16 | fenn | are there logs of #brlcad anywhere? |
| 20:01.36 | brlcad | Twingy: you see that bike? |
| 20:03.16 | brlcad | fenn: yes, there is considerable interest in STEP import -- there was work that started on a step library about a year ago, but the lead guy pushing the effort disappeared |
| 20:04.00 | brlcad | fenn: for what it's worth, we also have copies of the STEP standard that we can use for anything specifically related to BRL-CAD |
| 20:04.16 | brlcad | (AP203, AP214, and a few others) |
| 20:04.38 | brlcad | ~logs |
| 20:04.39 | ibot | apt/ibot/jbot/purl all log to http://ibot.rikers.org/<channelname>/ where channelname is html encoded ie: %23debian | lines that start with a space are not shown | some channels have stats at http://ibot.rikers.org/stats/<channelname>.html.gz, or updated "nightly" |
| 20:16.15 | *** join/#brlcad dan_falck (n=danfalck@pool-71-111-76-8.ptldor.dsl-w.verizon.net) | |
| 20:19.08 | brlcad | howdy dan |
| 20:19.52 | brlcad | seems as though much of #emc woke up today and decided to go on a field trip .. |
| 20:21.02 | dan_falck | hi brlcad |
| 20:21.08 | dan_falck | yes we did |
| 20:21.26 | dan_falck | we are interested in gcam, which we think is related to brlcad |
| 20:21.48 | dan_falck | fenn and SWPadnos probably are very interested |
| 20:21.55 | dan_falck | cradek too |
| 20:22.14 | dan_falck | Twingy, is gcam your program? |
| 20:22.23 | brlcad | not really related to brl-cad other than it's Twingy's project and he's somewhat related to brl-cad ;) |
| 20:22.34 | dan_falck | ok |
| 20:22.44 | dan_falck | fenn, did you get that? |
| 20:22.49 | brlcad | i.e. it shares no code or functionality, doesn't link to any of brl-cad's libs last I looked unless he changed something :) |
| 20:23.29 | dan_falck | how are you doing these days? |
| 20:23.37 | brlcad | pretty well, keeping busy |
| 20:23.59 | dan_falck | same here. Taking a short break from building a deck |
| 20:24.13 | brlcad | the blasted windows port took up an enormous amount of time, just starting to get back into more useful development |
| 20:24.31 | dan_falck | we still don't use windows at the shop where I work |
| 20:24.35 | dan_falck | OS X |
| 20:24.39 | dan_falck | and linux |
| 20:24.44 | brlcad | likewise |
| 20:24.59 | brlcad | cept for the desk junkies, analysts |
| 20:25.13 | dan_falck | makes it hard to find a CAM program, hence the intense interest in anythin cam related |
| 20:25.15 | brlcad | but not the modelers, developers, and other tech |
| 20:25.37 | dan_falck | the owner of our company said that we would NEVER use windows |
| 20:25.42 | dan_falck | and so far so good |
| 20:25.46 | brlcad | yeah, i was talking to him about making his g-code thing a more general purpose library so that I could hook into it in brl-cad |
| 20:25.53 | dan_falck | cool |
| 20:26.21 | brlcad | well, it would be cool -- depends how much interest gcam in general gets will probably determine if he does |
| 20:26.51 | fenn | sorry i was ignoring irc due to a troll on another channel |
| 20:26.58 | brlcad | yay, trolls |
| 20:27.06 | dan_falck | probably about 20 people from #emc would be interested |
| 20:27.20 | brlcad | how many of those 20 are users and how many are devs? :) |
| 20:27.24 | fenn | ooo yes i wouldnt mind getting my hands on the "real" standard |
| 20:27.38 | fenn | i've been drowning in complicated standard draft documents all day long |
| 20:27.48 | brlcad | fenn: heh, you and half the industry |
| 20:27.58 | fenn | its only like $60 isnt it? |
| 20:28.07 | brlcad | those damn standards are rather expensive for just about any non-commercial use |
| 20:28.14 | dan_falck | fenn could probably tell you how many are developers in the EMC group |
| 20:28.32 | fenn | there are really only like 5 or 6 active developers |
| 20:28.59 | fenn | everyone's in the same boat though |
| 20:29.13 | brlcad | fenn: i forget the details, but the 5 or 6 APs of STEP that I have were somewhere in the 1-2k range, iso lists the costs iirc |
| 20:30.00 | brlcad | which is one part how it's cool that we at least have them to go on, makes it a heck of a lot easier to make an open source library out of them in a manner that anyone could then use |
| 20:30.13 | brlcad | without needing to buy their own copy |
| 20:30.42 | fenn | oh wow |
| 20:30.56 | dan_falck | fenn: so now we know that gcam is Twingy's program. |
| 20:31.19 | fenn | ap203 and ap214 are the ones i was interested in |
| 20:31.25 | fenn | and step-nc whatever that is |
| 20:31.36 | fenn | looking at the file format it doesnt seem too complicated really |
| 20:31.40 | brlcad | to get the COMPLETE iso spec for STEP, it's roughly in the 10-15k range and would fill at least one 20' library shelf if printed |
| 20:31.50 | fenn | its all the buzzwordage that is hard to dig through |
| 20:32.09 | brlcad | 203 and 214 are by far the most interesting, though little ones like 11 and 21 become handy when writing a parser |
| 20:32.53 | fenn | i would like to make a portable library that could be used in more than just brlcad |
| 20:33.34 | brlcad | it's a shame that the dev that was working on it ran off, he was making good progress |
| 20:34.26 | brlcad | had taken over the nist parser, updated to the latest step spec, got it working more cross-platform, got it parsing some example step files |
| 20:34.52 | fenn | it wasnt terry hancock was it? |
| 20:34.56 | brlcad | all pretty low level still, no hook functionality |
| 20:35.15 | fenn | i've been reading this over and over, trying to psych myself up: http://www.freesoftwaremagazine.com/articles/free_matter_economy_4?page=0%2C2 |
| 20:35.41 | brlcad | heh, it was a terry |
| 20:35.46 | fenn | awesome |
| 20:35.53 | brlcad | but afaik, his last name wasn't hancock |
| 20:36.07 | brlcad | ridder according to sf project account |
| 20:36.11 | fenn | oh |
| 20:36.29 | fenn | he wrote a bunch of stuff about a "gnu cad/cam" a long time ago |
| 20:37.10 | brlcad | vaguely remember |
| 20:37.29 | brlcad | i've read some other stuff from hancock, mostly good ideas but definitely not ridder |
| 20:37.32 | fenn | oh man sourceforge is so pathetic |
| 20:38.10 | brlcad | ridder is a rather bitter guy that doesn't like object oriented designs in general, so somehow I doubt he'd be pushing for a python layer that converts step to xml :) |
| 20:39.12 | brlcad | he seemed to like lower level libraries, straightforward simple C apis |
| 20:39.36 | fenn | i actually dont know which is more appropriate for a file format library |
| 20:40.22 | brlcad | i like and agree with most of hancock's ideas, though there's a reason step wasn't done in xml (and it's not because it predated xml or anything) |
| 20:40.43 | fenn | why is that, do you know? |
| 20:40.49 | brlcad | the spirit of that article I like, though a lot of the technical detail is less than appealing |
| 20:41.16 | fenn | making a new language to describe a file format seems kinda overboard |
| 20:41.25 | fenn | or maybe i'm missing something |
| 20:41.44 | brlcad | several reasons it wasn't but probably the most significant one that comes to mind is that step is effectively meant to be the combination of every CAD/CAM/CADD vendor's needs |
| 20:42.18 | fenn | and xml isnt complex enough? :) |
| 20:42.35 | brlcad | and for a huge subset of those area domains, encoding their data into xml is a non-starter due to utter information explosion (about two orders of magnitude) |
| 20:42.47 | brlcad | express is pretty complicated in itself |
| 20:42.57 | brlcad | but it's somewhat more condensed than xml |
| 20:42.59 | fenn | i thought the schema was just a description of the file format |
| 20:43.36 | fenn | is there like "introduction to the STEP thingy" document somewhere |
| 20:43.48 | brlcad | yeah, there's an AP for it that you can buy :) |
| 20:44.12 | brlcad | there's minimal good on-line resources on step |
| 20:44.30 | brlcad | a few industry articles give an intro on it, should be easily found with a search |
| 20:44.36 | fenn | i've skimmed through 23 out of 1600 folders.. |
| 20:44.50 | fenn | i read some modern machine shop articles |
| 20:45.17 | fenn | in fact i dont even care why they did it |
| 20:45.19 | brlcad | helps if you toss in the numerical standard id |
| 20:45.23 | brlcad | i.e. iso 10303 |
| 20:45.35 | fenn | yeah those 1600 are all about 10303 |
| 20:45.56 | fenn | http://www.tc184-sc4.org/SC4_Open/SC4_Work_Products_Documents/STEP_(10303)/ |
| 20:46.18 | brlcad | http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ISO_10303 |
| 20:47.34 | brlcad | ug, sc4 is an iso parrot, that's article's about as well written as the step APs themselves |
| 20:48.21 | brlcad | this one isn't too bad: http://www.mel.nist.gov/msidlibrary/doc/jcise1.pdf |
| 20:49.30 | brlcad | nist has a load of useful information, they dumped a lot of time and resources into step about a decade ago that they have given to the community since |
| 20:49.38 | fenn | hm - the development of step is one of the largest efforts ever undertaken by ISO |
| 20:49.49 | brlcad | i'd believe that |
| 20:50.44 | brlcad | the standard really is utterly enormous and complex as it covers just about every single aspect of dealing with a "product" |
| 20:50.57 | fenn | i've noticed :) |
| 20:51.02 | brlcad | from designing it to creating it to selling and distributing or analysing it, etc |
| 20:51.31 | brlcad | not just the computer geometric representation, that's just one small part of it |
| 20:51.48 | brlcad | (hence the 203 and 214.. there really are hundreds of protocols) |
| 20:54.59 | fenn | sometimes i think they must be joking with some of these flowcharts |
| 20:56.36 | brlcad | sadly, they usually are not |
| 20:57.54 | brlcad | since it's almost entirely industry driven, "most" presentations and write-ups aren't meant to be "easy" or "clear" -- they're worked on by people that are paid to do so and often the more verbose or the more obscure, the better they're doing their job ;) |
| 20:58.19 | fenn | well it makes me laugh regardless |
| 20:58.30 | fenn | maybe i'll feel differently once i get my hands dirty |
| 20:58.50 | brlcad | just seeing the iso spec makes me cry sometimes |
| 20:59.12 | brlcad | reading it makes baby seals die I think |
| 20:59.43 | fenn | do you notice signs of rectal bleeding after a protracted coding session :) |
| 21:00.15 | brlcad | hehe |
| 21:26.41 | Twingy | yea I saw the bike |
| 21:26.51 | Twingy | it'll be a while before its out though |
| 21:27.24 | Twingy | and unless they are using non-standard materials for the proton exchange membrane then it's likely to cost $10k or so |
| 21:27.46 | Twingy | and all that will get you is about 1HP |
| 21:36.24 | brlcad | that's odd.. it's supposed to be shipping already |
| 21:36.42 | Twingy | that would be company suicide |
| 21:36.56 | Twingy | they are looking for manuf partners |
| 21:37.09 | brlcad | it was in a best new product of the year list |
| 21:37.11 | Twingy | and like I said, unless they can figure out how to get rid of the platinum and graphite manuf process... |
| 21:37.23 | Twingy | it's a great product, just not practical from an economic stand point |
| 21:37.38 | brlcad | i'd get one even at 10k |
| 21:37.52 | Twingy | I would to if I had the money |
| 21:37.56 | Twingy | *too |
| 21:37.58 | brlcad | unless it was unusable on the interstate, but it didn't seem like that was the case |
| 21:38.20 | Twingy | wait a few years, a substitute catalyst will be researched |
| 21:38.31 | Twingy | I bet you that bike doesn't exceed 30mph |
| 21:38.33 | brlcad | you'll have it all sorted out by then? :) |
| 21:38.41 | Twingy | me? no, some university |
| 21:38.45 | brlcad | heh |
| 21:39.02 | Twingy | to give you an idea |
| 21:39.06 | Twingy | fuelcellstore.com |
| 21:39.12 | Twingy | look at the prices of those fuel cell stacks |
| 21:39.18 | Twingy | that store skims about 10% off the top |
| 21:39.50 | Twingy | 1 HP on that will get you 25 - 30mph (~750W) |
| 21:40.00 | Twingy | look how much a 750W fuel cell costs |
| 21:40.28 | Twingy | now factor in the cost of the bike and shipping |
| 21:41.07 | Twingy | figure you have some group in china building those for $5/hr |
| 21:41.28 | Twingy | best case scenario you're at $10k in a mass production |
| 21:41.45 | brlcad | most bikes are 10-30k |
| 21:42.05 | brlcad | so for something "high end" niche like this, I wouldn't be surprised if it were 30-50k |
| 21:42.08 | Twingy | you can get many gas crotch rocket bikes for $5-$6k |
| 21:42.15 | Twingy | and they do 100mph, not 25 - 30 mph |
| 21:42.15 | brlcad | not new |
| 21:42.19 | Twingy | yes new |
| 21:42.28 | Twingy | I almost bought a suzuki |
| 21:42.34 | Twingy | I'll pull up the url if you like |
| 21:42.38 | brlcad | nah |
| 21:42.39 | Twingy | I actually sat on it |
| 21:42.44 | Twingy | went to bel air to check it out |
| 21:42.48 | brlcad | for 6k? |
| 21:42.51 | Twingy | right next to the mexican place |
| 21:42.54 | Twingy | $5,995 |
| 21:42.58 | brlcad | that's crazy.. how many cycles? |
| 21:42.59 | Twingy | yellow and blue |
| 21:43.16 | Twingy | they have about 50 in that shop |
| 21:43.33 | Twingy | gets ~50mpg |
| 21:44.09 | Twingy | the #1 problem with fuel cells right now is the catalyst, platinum is just too expensive |
| 21:44.50 | Twingy | I am 100% confident fuel cells will take off, but they need to be re-engineered slightly |
| 21:45.06 | Twingy | they are 2 - 4x more energy dense than lithium polymer batteries |
| 21:45.17 | Twingy | 1800psi - 3200psi respectively |
| 21:46.09 | Twingy | and that's at 50% efficiency (standard) |
| 21:47.10 | Twingy | btw, investing in platinum over the next few years is not a bad idea |
| 21:56.52 | Twingy | time for my run, bbl |
| 23:00.54 | Twingy | back |
| 23:19.04 | dan_falck | Twingy: is gcam yours? |
| 23:20.49 | Twingy | yes |
| 23:21.46 | dan_falck | there are a few of us from the #emc channel interested in it |
| 23:22.02 | Twingy | great |
| 23:22.12 | dan_falck | so august release then? |
| 23:22.13 | Twingy | I use it on my taig cnc |
| 23:22.39 | dan_falck | cool |
| 23:22.50 | Twingy | yea, some time in aug, I'll be doing alot of traveling in the next month, AZ, IL, MA, NJ |
| 23:23.05 | Twingy | 6 weeks actually |
| 23:23.31 | dan_falck | would you be game for a few us playing with it before then? |
| 23:23.57 | Twingy | I can't guarantee it compiles on anything other than freebsd right now |
| 23:24.17 | dan_falck | that's ok. we're used to the challenge |
| 23:24.23 | Twingy | it requires gtk+, opengl, automake/conf |
| 23:24.32 | dan_falck | ok |
| 23:24.48 | Twingy | k, poke me tonight, I've been working through a todo list all day on it |
| 23:24.58 | dan_falck | ok thanks |
| 23:25.15 | Twingy | I'll give you the 5 minute break down on what it is and what it is not |
| 23:25.19 | dan_falck | fenn will be happy too ;) |
| 23:25.22 | dan_falck | ok |
| 23:25.46 | Twingy | don't expect it to rival mastercam or anything, ttyl |
| 23:25.57 | dan_falck | that's ok |
| 23:27.41 | dan_falck | I need to go out and work on the deck. bbl |
| 00:48.36 | *** join/#brlcad SWPadnos (n=Me@dsl245.esjtvtli.sover.net) | |
| 02:32.32 | *** join/#brlcad Twingy (n=justin@c-69-250-236-111.hsd1.md.comcast.net) | |
| 02:46.08 | *** join/#brlcad Twingy (n=justin@c-69-250-236-111.hsd1.md.comcast.net) | |
| 03:07.13 | *** join/#brlcad IriX64 (n=IriX64@toronto-HSE-ppp4305091.sympatico.ca) | |
| 03:08.12 | dan_falck | Twingy: are you around? |
| 03:12.54 | Twingy | yes |
| 03:13.37 | dan_falck | you are using freebsd |
| 03:13.57 | Twingy | 6.0-RELEASE FreeBSD |
| 03:14.50 | dan_falck | ok. I'm on a mac right now, but could set up another machine with the same thing that you are using |
| 03:15.10 | Twingy | I'm currently debugging gcam, now is probably not the best time |
| 03:15.11 | dan_falck | I have several linux boxes in my garage right now |
| 03:15.17 | dan_falck | ok thanks |
| 03:15.52 | Twingy | some time over the next several days might be ok |
| 03:16.18 | dan_falck | ok. I will keep monitoring #brlcad |
| 08:32.57 | ``Erik | *yawn* |
| 19:02.05 | CIA-9 | BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/canon/ (mread.c pix-ipu.c png-ipu.c): break out the common mread() function into its own file from pix-ipu and png-ipu, clean it up a little |
| 19:03.57 | CIA-9 | BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/canon/Makefile.am: add mread.c to pix-ipu and png-ipu targets. disable the hopeless canonserver product that is dependent on headers and libs that aren't evidently available (and the tool has minimal utility in either respect. |
| 19:05.46 | CIA-9 | BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/canon/canonserver.c: |
| 19:05.46 | CIA-9 | BRL-CAD: removed the canonserver target, the sources for this binary are dependent upon |
| 19:05.46 | CIA-9 | BRL-CAD: headers and libraries that are not evidently available; similarly it hasn't been |
| 19:05.46 | CIA-9 | BRL-CAD: compiled/distributed since at least the new build system has been in place. |
| 19:06.05 | CIA-9 | BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/canon/.cvsignore: ignore the generated binaries |
| 19:09.44 | CIA-9 | BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/Makefile.am: finally 'revive' the old canon directory back into enabled-by-default build status. should now build/install png-ipu, pix-ipu, ipustat, ipuscan. |
| 19:11.30 | *** join/#brlcad IriX64 (n=IriX64@toronto-HSE-ppp4305226.sympatico.ca) | |
| 19:12.11 | IriX64 | twigy you around? |
| 19:12.18 | IriX64 | sorry twingy. |
| 19:12.41 | Twingy | kinda busy |
| 19:12.44 | IriX64 | I'm installing a freebsd brlcad. |
| 19:13.14 | IriX64 | would like feedback. |
| 19:13.46 | IriX64 | ill zip up the directory and send it to you. |
| 19:13.58 | Twingy | please don't, I'm busy right now |
| 19:14.08 | Twingy | and not in a good mood |
| 19:14.09 | IriX64 | sorry to have troubled you. |
| 19:14.14 | Twingy | try later this evening |
| 19:14.19 | IriX64 | sure. |
| 19:16.36 | IriX64 | <PROTECTED> |
| 19:18.16 | ``Erik | o.O |
| 19:18.30 | IriX64 | please i'm serious. |
| 19:18.31 | ``Erik | why not just use the port? |
| 19:18.42 | IriX64 | explain. |
| 19:18.53 | ``Erik | cd /usr/ports/cad/brlcad && make install clean |
| 19:19.09 | ``Erik | or pkgadd -r cad/brlcad |
| 19:19.10 | IriX64 | thought i knew the ins and outs. |
| 19:19.28 | IriX64 | i know my compiler not your configure or make. |
| 19:19.53 | IriX64 | installed. no way to run it. |
| 19:20.04 | ``Erik | it shoulda created an mged.sh in /usr/local/bin/ |
| 19:20.08 | CIA-9 | BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/NEWS: re-enabled png-ipu, pix-ipu, ipustat, ipuscan |
| 19:20.18 | ``Erik | which sets some variables and runs /usr/local/brlcad/bin/mged |
| 19:20.32 | ``Erik | add /usr/local/brlcad/bin to your path and all the utils 'just work' |
| 19:20.52 | IriX64 | who runs what here ill try to give you all a present. |
| 19:21.23 | ``Erik | eh? |
| 19:21.36 | IriX64 | I know twingy runs freebsd so i compiled for it. |
| 19:22.36 | ``Erik | hm, twingy knows how to compile it himself... and he's a developer, not a user... |
| 19:23.00 | IriX64 | you dont get it...i'm not running freebsd. |
| 19:23.06 | ``Erik | if you're trying to add new functionality or fix bugs, put the source patch into the sourceforge shtuff... |
| 19:23.34 | IriX64 | heh |
| 19:23.37 | ``Erik | you're looking for someone to see if your cross compiler works? |
| 19:23.42 | IriX64 | yes |
| 19:23.56 | ``Erik | why don't you make a hello world and give it to me, then |
| 19:24.09 | IriX64 | for what system? |
| 19:24.29 | ``Erik | fbsd ia32... 5, 6, 7, whatever, I got 'em all |
| 19:24.40 | IriX64 | standby |
| 19:27.35 | *** join/#brlcad alxarch (n=sonic@ipa188.16.tellas.gr) | |
| 19:29.33 | IriX64 | how do i get it to you its done. |
| 19:29.58 | IriX64 | freebsd flavor i586 arch |
| 19:30.34 | ``Erik | dcc works |
| 19:31.05 | IriX64 | dcc send ``erik c:\cassandra\home\hello.exe |
| 19:31.42 | ``Erik | try a slash infront of it... |
| 19:31.54 | IriX64 | whup |
| 19:33.28 | IriX64 | just a sec. |
| 19:35.13 | *** join/#brlcad IriX64_ (n=who@toronto-HSE-ppp4305226.sympatico.ca) | |
| 19:35.26 | IriX64_ | problem with my client stand by. |
| 19:36.34 | IriX64 | well accept. |
| 19:37.42 | ``Erik | <-- didn't get a request |
| 19:38.01 | ``Erik | and I have auto-accept turned on |
| 19:38.09 | IriX64 | from IriX64_ |
| 19:38.22 | IriX64 | requests been sent. |
| 19:38.34 | ``Erik | hrmmmm |
| 19:38.54 | ``Erik | I wonder if freenode is killing the request |
| 19:39.16 | IriX64 | i know nothing about freenode sorry, how else can i get it to you? |
| 19:39.20 | ``Erik | ok, are you a registered user? |
| 19:39.31 | IriX64 | this nick yes the other no. |
| 19:40.04 | ``Erik | ok, in order to send a dcc request, you have to be registered and identified... can you drop it on a web spot? or mail it? |
| 19:40.23 | IriX64 | email address? |
| 19:41.13 | ``Erik | erik@smluc.org works, I spoze |
| 19:41.40 | IriX64 | im reggistered trying again. |
| 19:42.00 | ``Erik | hrm, do you have a firewall or something? |
| 19:42.12 | IriX64 | not that would stop a dcc send. |
| 19:42.35 | IriX64 | client says awaiting reply so the request went out. |
| 19:42.56 | IriX64 | going for a smoke ill mail it to you when i get back. |
| 19:43.06 | ``Erik | yes, it would... dcc sends work by you sending me a message that includes your hostname and port and opens up that port... my client responds by connecting to that port |
| 19:43.17 | ``Erik | so it's sorta backwards to what you'd think :) |
| 19:47.24 | IriX64 | firewalls off lets try again. |
| 19:47.53 | IriX64 | awaiting reply. |
| 19:48.21 | ``Erik | CDCC Auto-geting file 676.hello.exe from [IriX64] |
| 19:48.32 | ``Erik | oh well... mail will have to do |
| 19:48.36 | IriX64 | sure. |
| 19:51.50 | IriX64 | mail sent. |
| 19:52.40 | IriX64 | back to this linux build. |
| 19:53.17 | ``Erik | that is a windows PE binary |
| 19:53.29 | ``Erik | erik@fenris /tmp$ file hello.exe |
| 19:53.29 | ``Erik | hello.exe: MS Windows PE 32-bit Intel 80386 console executable not relocatable |
| 19:53.50 | IriX64 | does it run? |
| 19:54.02 | ``Erik | no... it's not a bsd program... it's a windows program |
| 19:54.37 | IriX64 | post the 2nd and 3rd bytews in the program ill compare them with mine. |
| 19:54.43 | IriX64 | bytes |
| 19:54.56 | ``Erik | erik@fenris /tmp$ hexdump hello.exe | head -n 1 |
| 19:54.56 | ``Erik | 0000000 5a4d 0090 0003 0000 0004 0000 ffff 0000 |
| 19:55.14 | IriX64 | crap |
| 19:56.54 | IriX64 | mine 4d 90 00 |
| 19:57.23 | IriX64 | sorr 45 5a 90 00 |
| 19:57.44 | IriX64 | 4d 5a 90 00 |
| 19:58.19 | IriX64 | <PROTECTED> |
| 19:58.28 | IriX64 | what gives? |
| 19:59.21 | IriX64 | what the fark is fenris? |
| 19:59.23 | ``Erik | um, intel is little endian, so when I pasted 16b words, it flipped 'em... |
| 19:59.28 | ``Erik | fenris is the name of one of my fbsd boxen |
| 19:59.35 | IriX64 | ah |
| 20:00.28 | IriX64 | well much thanks for the test, may i hang around a while, ill be quiet. |
| 20:00.30 | ``Erik | erik@fenris /tmp$ hexdump -C hello.exe | head -n 1 |
| 20:00.30 | ``Erik | 00000000 4d 5a 90 00 03 00 00 00 04 00 00 00 ff ff 00 00 |MZ..............| |
| 20:00.32 | ``Erik | better? |
| 20:00.39 | IriX64 | yes |
| 20:00.50 | ``Erik | erik@fenris /tmp$ hexdump -C /bin/ls | head -n 1 |
| 20:00.50 | ``Erik | 00000000 7f 45 4c 46 01 01 01 09 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 |.ELF............| |
| 20:01.16 | ``Erik | now ya got a way to see if your cross-compiler is at least doing something other than local... :) |
| 20:01.46 | IriX64 | yes much thanks. |
| 20:02.06 | IriX64 | im not very good at this stuff. |
| 20:09.21 | IriX64 | where did you get hexdump? |
| 20:17.55 | IriX64 | build 20060702 compilation time 34 minutes 36 seconds ... sweet |
| 20:19.59 | IriX64 | altho...whats the use of building them? |
| 20:26.54 | *** join/#brlcad Twingy (n=justin@c-69-250-236-111.hsd1.md.comcast.net) | |
| 20:34.06 | IriX64 | lets return to the windows build :) |
| 20:35.33 | IriX64 | havoc looks beautiful through the window :) |
| 21:15.24 | IriX64 | how does *your multipane work, id like to compare notes. |
| 21:16.22 | IriX64 | for the longest time i was coding blind, wouldnt build or run on my system. |
| 21:16.53 | IriX64 | now she builds beautifully and runs even more beautifully. |
| 21:18.32 | IriX64 | hahah rotated havoc to where i wanted her and then moved her back into center screen. |
| 21:19.14 | IriX64 | what a beautiful picture. |
| 21:22.38 | brlcad | hmm.. it's raining |
| 21:27.33 | IriX64 | ``erik expect mail. |
| 21:37.52 | IriX64 | you all are a quiet bunch, must be very busy. |
| 21:48.36 | brlcad | always |
| 21:53.07 | IriX64 | heh i tend to my work too. |
| 21:54.04 | IriX64 | *nix high on windows rawks :) |
| 21:55.19 | IriX64 | sigh..don't blame it on me i'm only 25 with 27 years experience ;) |
| 00:45.16 | *** join/#brlcad IriX64 (n=who@toronto-HSE-ppp4305226.sympatico.ca) | |
| 00:57.42 | *** join/#brlcad Twingy (n=justin@c-69-250-236-111.hsd1.md.comcast.net) | |
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| 06:36.25 | *** join/#brlcad cradek_ (n=chris@timeguy.com) | |
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| 18:05.39 | *** join/#brlcad IriX64 (n=who@toronto-HSE-ppp4303376.sympatico.ca) | |
| 18:06.12 | IriX64 | twingy... freebsdcad... sending it to incoming now. |
| 18:07.16 | IriX64 | have a linux build too, dunno what to do with that one :) |
| 18:12.21 | IriX64 | anybody in the channel have use for a linux build of brlcad i586arch? |
| 18:13.46 | IriX64 | smoke break. |
| 18:24.08 | ``Erik | why would twingy want your build? and why would anyone want a linux build? they're available from sourceforge, and pretty much all of us happily compile things ourselves... |
| 18:24.43 | IriX64 | did some work on it. |
| 18:25.11 | IriX64 | you already have a freebsd build? |
| 18:26.43 | IriX64 | chose freebsd cause its not mentioned at sourceforge. |
| 18:27.14 | brlcad | it's one of the supported binary distributions |
| 18:27.31 | brlcad | http://sourceforge.net/project/showfiles.php?group_id=105292 |
| 18:27.33 | brlcad | top of the list |
| 18:27.42 | IriX64 | ill stop this ftp transfer then. |
| 18:27.56 | IriX64 | or would you care to examine it. |
| 18:28.11 | IriX64 | did some work on the geometry browser. |
| 18:28.19 | brlcad | what sort of work? |
| 18:28.30 | brlcad | it could use a lot of work :) |
| 18:28.35 | IriX64 | cascading tree browser. |
| 18:28.49 | brlcad | i know what it is, I wrote most of it |
| 18:28.54 | brlcad | what did you do with it? |
| 18:29.15 | IriX64 | double click and it displays to the graphics window. |
| 18:29.29 | IriX64 | or clear and display and set color |
| 18:29.49 | brlcad | again, you're telling me what it does.. I know what it does :) |
| 18:29.59 | brlcad | what did YOU do with it, any code changes? |
| 18:29.59 | IriX64 | prettied the window up a little. |
| 18:30.10 | IriX64 | yes some |
| 18:30.27 | IriX64 | but this upload is the binaries. |
| 18:30.36 | IriX64 | ill send source if you like. |
| 18:30.36 | brlcad | you should post up a source patch |
| 18:30.51 | IriX64 | a diff? |
| 18:31.12 | brlcad | yeah, a unified diff (diff -u), post it to http://sourceforge.net/tracker/?group_id=105292&atid=640804 |
| 18:32.54 | IriX64 | that site loads but doesn't display anything. |
| 18:33.07 | IriX64 | whup sorry. |
| 18:33.19 | brlcad | do you see the "Submit New" link? |
| 18:33.30 | brlcad | http://sourceforge.net/tracker/?func=add&group_id=105292&atid=640804 |
| 18:34.09 | IriX64 | yes |
| 18:34.29 | IriX64 | says login and submit new. |
| 18:34.37 | IriX64 | im not in cvs. |
| 18:35.34 | brlcad | so login, and submit new :) |
| 18:36.25 | IriX64 | how do i begin doen't i have to be accepted to be able to login? |
| 18:37.19 | IriX64 | its the source of the SOURCEforge system i use :) |
| 18:39.59 | brlcad | do you have a sourceforge account? |
| 18:40.12 | IriX64 | no i don't. |
| 18:40.13 | brlcad | if not, create one -- there's a link on the login link |
| 18:40.19 | brlcad | it's quick |
| 18:40.21 | brlcad | painless |
| 18:40.41 | IriX64 | what does it do for me and how much does it cost? |
| 18:41.30 | ValarQ | how is brlcads support for generating drawings? |
| 18:42.13 | IriX64 | i dont have a postscript printer or a plotter so i cant comment, however the interface to generate same is beautiful. |
| 18:43.16 | IriX64 | the rendering to the screen tho, most beautiful pictures of the gunship ive ever seen, actually only pictures of it ive ever seen. |
| 18:43.30 | ValarQ | i have tried to generate postscript from some of the examples and it looks very good |
| 18:43.52 | ValarQ | but i might want to add some measurements and other information |
| 18:43.54 | IriX64 | maybe i should invest in such a printer. |
| 18:44.02 | ValarQ | can that be done easily? |
| 18:44.11 | IriX64 | should make it so the grid prints. |
| 18:44.29 | IriX64 | can be actually. |
| 18:45.27 | brlcad | IriX64: did you even look? it's free |
| 18:45.51 | brlcad | it lets you submit patches.. if that's not enough in itself, I'm not sure what would convince you |
| 18:46.12 | IriX64 | this is how id do it, your raytracing the drawing line by line anyway, simplay add a grid ala acad to the drawing and include an option to scan the grid or not so itll print on request |
| 18:46.39 | IriX64 | ive never looked brlcad i thought it was a subscription service like some others. |
| 18:47.42 | IriX64 | just have a switch for the grid like you do now. |
| 18:47.57 | IriX64 | use the grid control panel to set hash marks. |
| 18:48.36 | brlcad | ValarQ: there are various ways to save the wireframe, but the method used "in production" is the rtedge raytracer |
| 18:48.38 | IriX64 | smoke break bbiab |
| 18:49.41 | brlcad | rtedge doesn't have dimensioning support yet, but it does do nice hidden-line rendered drawings |
| 18:49.55 | ValarQ | rtedge? |
| 18:50.03 | brlcad | example: http://ftp.brlcad.org/images/havoc_rtedge.png |
| 18:50.25 | ValarQ | yeah, that looks great |
| 18:50.39 | ValarQ | i'm missing dimenstions thought |
| 18:51.47 | *** join/#brlcad PrezKennedy (n=Apathy@c-68-33-243-45.hsd1.md.comcast.net) | |
| 18:53.12 | ValarQ | how do you make that hidden-line render? |
| 18:53.22 | brlcad | run rtedge instead of rt |
| 18:53.45 | brlcad | brlman rtedge (or just man rtedge if your MANPATH is set) |
| 18:54.03 | brlcad | rtedge -F/dev/Xl -s1024 havoc.g havoc |
| 18:54.26 | brlcad | inside mged, maybe something like: rtedge -F/dev/Xl -s800 |
| 18:56.01 | PrezKennedy | brlcad, im afraid to wear my glasses now... im afraid no one will recognize me |
| 19:08.12 | brlcad | heh |
| 19:14.58 | IriX64 | havoc.sh neat |
| 19:17.31 | IriX64 | brlcad thats a lovely pix of havoc. |
| 19:18.10 | IriX64 | i have one of her climbing and showing her belly sort of lower left to upper right. |
| 19:20.31 | ``Erik | *yawn* |
| 19:20.56 | IriX64 | use your raytrace script loader to see ill dcc it to you if you like |
| 19:21.03 | ``Erik | freebsd users are mostly unlikely to bother with a binary on the sf page... we'd rather build from ports or do a pkg_add -r brlcad and get it from the freebsd buildfarm... :) |
| 19:21.15 | brlcad | IriX64: i've yet to see you use dcc successfully ;) |
| 19:21.28 | ``Erik | and havoc is an interesting 'coptor... the Mi28, which lost in a bid-war to the Ka50... both impressive machines :) |
| 19:21.32 | IriX64 | sigh point taken. :) |
| 19:21.52 | IriX64 | do u have a pix of the latter.? |
| 19:22.00 | ``Erik | google or go to wikipedia |
| 19:22.20 | IriX64 | should have thought of that doh. |
| 19:22.26 | ``Erik | I think it's nickname is "black shark"? |
| 19:22.41 | IriX64 | ill mail it to ``Erik :) |
| 19:22.42 | ``Erik | its, even |
| 19:23.15 | ``Erik | heh, the only email of mine you have is one that would bounce a large attachment :> |
| 19:23.18 | IriX64 | ``Erik my system knows who she is now :) |
| 19:23.46 | IriX64 | but no the script is very small load it in mgeds script loader. |
| 19:24.08 | IriX64 | displays nicely. |
| 19:24.33 | ``Erik | brlcad, why don't we have a simple aa box that just takes two opposing points? |
| 19:26.39 | IriX64 | mail ``Erik. |
| 19:27.38 | ``Erik | why? I don't want some script shit :/ |
| 19:27.53 | ``Erik | <-- busy trying to implement metaballs |
| 19:28.11 | IriX64 | its such hot shit toilet paper burns when it touches it. :) |
| 19:28.20 | IriX64 | smoke time bbiab. |
| 19:31.48 | ``Erik | mebbe I'll implement a two point aa box first, heh |
| 19:41.37 | brlcad | ``Erik: if you need a ground plane, that'd be a halfspace prim |
| 19:42.13 | brlcad | there is a make_bb cmd to make a simple bounding box arb on objects |
| 19:42.51 | brlcad | use that and move the top face underneath and you'll have a perfectly sized base box |
| 20:28.18 | ``Erik | hm, I was doing reflective/refrative stuff, so the goal was "near-infinite" |
| 20:28.37 | ``Erik | big honkin' hollow sphere with something to cut through it woulda probably been best... |
| 20:43.42 | Twingy | hum |
| 20:50.40 | ``Erik | bastage |
| 20:54.07 | SWPadnos | sumnum fargin' bastage? |
| 21:56.43 | ``Erik | mmm quesadillas |
| 22:14.37 | IriX64 | man.... ive gotta abort, i cant take it anymore. |
| 22:16.11 | IriX64 | chow |
| 22:22.21 | Twingy | that's what his mom said just before birth |
| 22:27.39 | ``Erik | awesome |
| 22:45.12 | Twingy | hah, grills gone wild |
| 00:39.02 | ``Erik | folk implosion rocks |
| 00:44.05 | Twingy | damn portupgrade is taking forever |
| 00:44.50 | Twingy | 2.9 rather |
| 02:13.15 | ``Erik | shoulda used -PP :D |
| 02:13.58 | Twingy | indeed |
| 02:14.09 | Twingy | I'm too used to being on fast machines |
| 02:14.22 | Twingy | maybe this 2.2ghz athlon 64 coming in the mail will solve that |
| 02:15.00 | Twingy | the sad thing is I don't think fbsd stocks 2.9 yet |
| 02:15.05 | Twingy | I think they are still on 2.8 |
| 02:15.14 | Twingy | so I will likely have to install by hand |
| 02:16.23 | Twingy | I wonder how hard it would be to get the fbsd admins to create a cam folder in ports |
| 02:20.32 | Twingy | the athlon 64 3500+ should be roughly 2.2x faster than this sempron 2200+ |
| 02:22.27 | ``Erik | creating a cam folder is trivial... convincing them that there needs to be one would be more or less impossible, "it should go in ports/cad/" will probably be the response |
| 02:25.15 | Twingy | I need to get a 20 or 23" display for home |
| 15:42.55 | *** join/#brlcad Twingy (n=justin@c-69-250-236-111.hsd1.md.comcast.net) | |
| 15:52.26 | brlcad | don't we all |
| 15:57.05 | dan_falck | yep |
| 16:09.58 | Twingy | dan, I'm back on track again |
| 16:10.20 | Twingy | my e-machine was not delivering the proper signal to my cnc, moving this machine to the garage and ordered a new machine to replace this one |
| 16:10.33 | Twingy | once I upgrade to gtk2.9 I can resume development |
| 16:20.38 | dan_falck | cool |
| 16:22.01 | dan_falck | are you using EMC to run the machine? |
| 16:27.36 | ``Erik | what's 2.9 give you over 2.8.20 ? |
| 16:29.04 | ``Erik | (and 2.10 is out, which is the 'stable' continuation of 2.9) |
| 16:41.11 | *** join/#brlcad CIA-9 (i=cia@cia.navi.cx) [NETSPLIT VICTIM] | |
| 17:13.52 | Twingy | 2.9 has spin widgets in tree view |
| 17:14.06 | Twingy | which I need for my polyline primitive |
| 17:43.13 | ``Erik | ah, coo' |
| 17:58.19 | Twingy | T-40 minutes to launch |
| 17:58.53 | Twingy | channel 51 |
| 18:06.59 | ``Erik | :o thanks for the heads up |
| 18:08.02 | ``Erik | 30:00 |
| 18:09.03 | Twingy | plus 9 min hold |
| 18:18.35 | brlcad | given how much he just LOVES crowds.. I doubt it :) |
| 18:19.18 | ``Erik | yeah, but he could watch it out his condo window |
| 18:20.49 | ``Erik | wtf.. |
| 18:20.57 | ``Erik | I was able to privmsg? freenode must be broken, heh |
| 18:22.04 | brlcad | nah, I disabled it |
| 18:22.23 | brlcad | individuals can disable it with nickserv, just defaults to off |
| 18:23.04 | ``Erik | ahhh, okie |
| 18:23.30 | ``Erik | I lost my password, so I asked them to delete the account (as that's the standard passwd recovery), but they never did it :/ |
| 18:24.57 | brlcad | actually, freenode has an account "expiration" policy |
| 18:25.03 | brlcad | they'll reset the password for you |
| 18:26.54 | brlcad | susan would probably do it quick enough (hedgemage) |
| 18:27.15 | ``Erik | huh, the dude I talked to (months ago) said he had to delete, and said he'd do it immediately :/ |
| 18:27.30 | ``Erik | no such nick o.O |
| 18:28.02 | brlcad | sleeping |
| 18:28.24 | ``Erik | O.O people sign off when they sleep? *boggle* |
| 18:28.34 | brlcad | i know, crazy talk |
| 18:29.45 | brlcad | there's plenty that might: /who freenode/staff/* |
| 18:31.32 | brlcad | course I know many of them so it might just be familiarity affecting their willingness |
| 18:33.03 | brlcad | woot, five minutes |
| 18:48.40 | brlcad | beautiful |
| 18:49.25 | ``Erik | they haven't stated the expected docking time... |
| 18:55.04 | ``Erik | ah, excellent, thunder, lightening and rain |
| 18:55.28 | ``Erik | so much for bbq |
| 18:57.57 | Twingy | everytime I build something I get spammed with pkg_delete: package apsfilter-7.2.6 has no origin recorded |
| 18:59.01 | ``Erik | um, that means it was aborted during the 'register' phase |
| 18:59.37 | ``Erik | cd path/to/apsfilter && make build deinstall reinstall clean |
| 19:01.46 | Twingy | thx |
| 19:02.17 | Twingy | this upgrade process is taking longer than anticipated |
| 19:02.25 | Twingy | so many errors and breakage |
| 19:03.08 | Twingy | btw |
| 19:03.15 | Twingy | still gives me the pkg_delete: package apsfilter-7.2.6 has no origin recorded |
| 19:03.56 | ``Erik | o.O um, is /var/db/pkg/apsfilter-7.2.6/+CONTENTS damaged ? |
| 19:04.20 | Twingy | 0 lines |
| 19:04.23 | Twingy | blow it away? |
| 19:04.50 | Twingy | that fixed things |
| 19:05.23 | ``Erik | did you do the reinstall thing on it? |
| 19:05.28 | Twingy | yes |
| 19:05.34 | ``Erik | and still 0 lines? odd |
| 19:05.42 | Twingy | libexec/ld-elf.so.1: Shared object "libglib-2.0.so.600" not found, required by "orbit-idl-2" |
| 19:05.51 | Twingy | that's Orbit2 right? |
| 19:06.04 | ``Erik | I think |
| 19:06.30 | ``Erik | neither of my home boxes have apsfilter installed... |
| 19:06.58 | Twingy | it's for interfacing my laser printer |
| 19:07.28 | ``Erik | ah, if I had it, I'd give you my manifest files... but I don't, so *shrug* |
| 19:07.34 | ``Erik | no files in there should be zero length |
| 19:08.23 | ``Erik | when you make install, it uses the data from pkg-plist to generate the +CONTENTS file, so it can do a pkg_delete |
| 19:09.18 | Twingy | that snickers commercial cracks me up |
| 19:09.52 | *** join/#brlcad ibot (i=ibot@pdpc/supporter/active/TimRiker/bot/apt) | |
| 19:09.52 | *** topic/#brlcad is http://brlcad.org/ || BRL-CAD is an open source solid modeling software suite || Developers needed! Read the HACKING file for details on getting involved | |
| 19:12.52 | brlcad | damn, the dad on american chopper just easily benchpressed 405 lbs |
| 19:13.14 | Twingy | he lifts all day long |
| 19:14.12 | brlcad | pretty impresseive especially for his age.. |
| 19:15.11 | brlcad | says he tries to work out about three times a week |
| 19:16.13 | Twingy | maybe he's on roids |
| 19:16.18 | Twingy | he always has a bad temper |
| 19:29.29 | Twingy | install: /usr/X11R6/lib/libgtk-x11-2.0.so.0: Too many levels of symbolic links |
| 19:30.11 | ``Erik | erm, you're not trying to install your hand-built 2.9 into the place where 2.8 goes, are you? |
| 19:30.25 | Twingy | no |
| 19:30.39 | ``Erik | oh, ok.. weird, what'd you do to that poor machine? :) |
| 19:30.48 | Twingy | I used ports *shrug* |
| 19:31.15 | Twingy | I guess 2.8.20 wasn't tested much |
| 19:31.20 | ``Erik | <-- has never heard of anyone having so many issues o.O :) |
| 19:31.31 | Twingy | most people don't install as much stuff as me either |
| 19:31.33 | ``Erik | my 2.8.20 install seems to be working fine |
| 19:31.38 | Twingy | I've got some 200-300 packages installed |
| 19:31.50 | Twingy | most people install like 40-50 packages |
| 19:32.34 | Twingy | like I said *most* |
| 19:32.51 | ``Erik | I think most people who use fbsd as a desktop are in around 300... |
| 19:33.02 | ``Erik | gnome and kde both glob loads of crap on |
| 19:33.23 | Twingy | most people don't use fbsd as a desktop env afaik |
| 19:33.28 | ``Erik | now I only have like 50 leaf packages... |
| 19:34.01 | ``Erik | 'pointyhat' installs all of everything at some point of it's run... |
| 19:34.37 | ``Erik | now a lot of ports don't clean up after themselves nicely... so once in a rare while, I do a pkg_delete -a and start installing stuff fresh... |
| 19:34.42 | Twingy | if this bombs I think I'll just hold out and install 6.1 on the new box |
| 19:35.05 | ``Erik | which is as much to get rid of pkgs I don't use anymore as to clean cruft... |
| 19:35.07 | Twingy | was hoping to get some development time in today |
| 19:35.34 | Twingy | spent 5 hours last night and 4 hours today trying to get gtk upgraded |
| 19:35.55 | ``Erik | damn... |
| 19:36.48 | ``Erik | on which fbsd? |
| 19:36.51 | Twingy | 6.0 |
| 19:36.53 | ``Erik | I can make package you a 7.0 |
| 19:37.00 | ``Erik | oh, I only have 6.1 and 7.0 |
| 19:37.22 | Twingy | I installed 6.0 on a handful of machines when I moved into the house in nov '05 |
| 19:37.33 | Twingy | I had to do a -Rauskf |
| 19:38.39 | ``Erik | uhhhhh, -f is, uh, bad mojo |
| 19:38.48 | ``Erik | -k, too |
| 19:38.58 | Twingy | yep |
| 19:39.09 | Twingy | hence this taking so long |
| 19:39.21 | Twingy | some combination of the ports I am using is causing bad mojo |
| 19:39.42 | ``Erik | do you have pkg_cutleaves installed? |
| 19:39.49 | Twingy | no |
| 19:40.14 | ``Erik | oh, if you did, you could give me the pkg_cutleaves -l output and I could try to emulate it on shiva or nifleim tomorrow |
| 19:40.43 | ``Erik | it could just be that something oopsed at some point and chucnks of your system have been broken-ish *shrug* |
| 19:40.43 | Twingy | not worth your time |
| 19:40.52 | Twingy | I'm sure you have more important things to accomplish at work |
| 19:41.33 | ``Erik | hah |
| 19:41.38 | ``Erik | I'm mandated otherwise. |
| 19:41.52 | ``Erik | actually, I got that metaballs thing I could do |
| 19:43.18 | Twingy | ok, here goes another install |
| 19:43.30 | ``Erik | heh, concerning your, um, new office? :) |
| 19:43.42 | Twingy | show and tell |
| 19:43.48 | Twingy | same problem |
| 19:44.05 | Twingy | /usr/bin/install -c -o root -g wheel .libs/libgtk-x11-2.0.so.0T /usr/X11R6/lib/libgtk-x11-2.0.so.0 |
| 19:44.06 | Twingy | install: /usr/X11R6/lib/libgtk-x11-2.0.so.0: Too many levels of symbolic links |
| 19:44.06 | Twingy | *** Error code 71 |
| 19:44.20 | ``Erik | is it like a symlink to itself? |
| 19:45.39 | Twingy | hrm |
| 19:45.40 | Twingy | ok |
| 19:45.42 | Twingy | plan B |
| 19:45.47 | Twingy | deinstall everything |
| 19:45.49 | Twingy | in ports |
| 19:45.51 | Twingy | and start over |
| 19:46.02 | Twingy | make deinstall in /usr/ports ? |
| 19:48.28 | ``Erik | pkg_delete -a |
| 19:48.38 | Twingy | too late :) |
| 19:48.48 | ``Erik | then look through /usr/local and /usr/X11R6 for things that can be deleted safel |
| 19:48.49 | ``Erik | y |
| 19:48.57 | ``Erik | make deinstall in /usr/ports will take a long long long time |
| 19:49.02 | Twingy | yep |
| 19:49.04 | ``Erik | if you REALLY wanted to be fast |
| 19:49.06 | Twingy | specially over nfs |
| 19:49.12 | ``Erik | rm -rf /usr/local /usr/X11R6 /var/db/pkg/* |
| 19:49.13 | Twingy | wireless nfs |
| 19:49.21 | Twingy | nah |
| 19:49.34 | Twingy | if I'm not up and running in the next 2 hours I will hold off until I get my new computer tomorrow |
| 19:49.40 | Twingy | install 6.1 on both compys |
| 19:49.43 | Twingy | and go from there |
| 19:49.51 | Twingy | the file server is running 6.0 nice and happily |
| 19:50.37 | ``Erik | but I'm a bit more apt to hack on kernel and userland system |
| 19:52.43 | ``Erik | I'm thinkin' ruby is right for this problem... I've been flopping on language for months, heh |
| 19:53.04 | Twingy | spoken like a true computer scientist |
| 20:23.39 | Twingy | I plugged in my external usb 2.0 plextor CDRW |
| 20:23.46 | Twingy | and /dev/cd0 .. /dev/cd7 popped up |
| 20:24.02 | Twingy | burncd works with none of them |
| 20:24.24 | Twingy | and Mac OSX requires special software to burn on non-apple cdrw's |
| 20:24.34 | Twingy | far from a turn-key solution |
| 20:26.03 | brlcad | "non-apple cdrw"? apple doesn't sell cdrw's |
| 20:26.13 | Twingy | internal ones rather |
| 20:26.22 | Twingy | i.e I plug this cdrom drive in |
| 20:26.26 | brlcad | the older macs don't handle cdr+ discs |
| 20:26.28 | Twingy | and I don't get a fancy burn icon |
| 20:26.37 | brlcad | (like the Ti books) |
| 20:26.41 | brlcad | newer ones do though |
| 20:26.49 | Twingy | these are cdr- I believe |
| 20:27.05 | Twingy | I know I can burn them when the cdrw internal drive worked on the ti-books |
| 20:27.05 | brlcad | same for cd+rw vs cd-rw |
| 20:27.19 | Twingy | these are the same cd's I used to burn internally with the ti-book |
| 20:27.41 | Twingy | it's just very selective about what drives it provides for burning capabilities |
| 20:28.12 | Twingy | I've also never gotten burncd to work in fbsd before |
| 20:30.06 | Twingy | it'll write about 1.3MB then spit out input/output error |
| 20:30.15 | Twingy | at speed 1 |
| 20:30.19 | Twingy | 1x recording |
| 20:30.38 | Twingy | but it'll fixate it just fine for 2 minutes |
| 20:32.20 | brlcad | weird |
| 20:32.33 | brlcad | some buffer getting underrun/stalled for some reason perhaps |
| 20:35.29 | *** join/#brlcad IriX64 (n=IriX64@toronto-HSE-ppp4303376.sympatico.ca) | |
| 20:35.48 | Twingy | xcdroast doesn't seem to play nicely with it either |
| 20:37.46 | ``Erik | <PROTECTED> |
| 20:37.55 | ``Erik | nothing out of dmesg? |
| 20:38.28 | Twingy | acd0: DVDR <ATAPI DVD RW 8XMax/160D> at ata0-slave UDMA33 |
| 20:38.34 | Twingy | cd0 at umass-sim0 bus 0 target 0 lun 0 |
| 20:38.34 | Twingy | cd0: <PLEXTOR DVDR PX-716A 1.01> Removable CD-ROM SCSI-0 device |
| 20:38.34 | Twingy | cd0: 40.000MB/s transfers |
| 20:38.34 | Twingy | cd0: cd present [1 x 2048 byte records] |
| 20:38.40 | Twingy | for both cdrw's |
| 20:39.29 | ``Erik | and youre line is something like "burncd -f /dev/acd0 data mydisk.iso fixate" ? |
| 20:39.34 | ``Erik | s/e// |
| 20:39.41 | Twingy | jup |
| 20:39.48 | Twingy | I through in a -s1 for good measure |
| 20:39.51 | Twingy | *threw |
| 20:40.00 | Twingy | write 1312kB |
| 20:40.04 | Twingy | then input/output error |
| 20:40.13 | Twingy | then red blinky light |
| 20:40.15 | Twingy | fixating |
| 20:40.19 | ``Erik | tried -d ? |
| 20:40.33 | Twingy | trying xcdroast now |
| 20:40.39 | ``Erik | the machine is more or less unloaded when you do this, right? |
| 20:40.51 | Twingy | seems to see the plextor |
| 20:40.54 | ``Erik | I think |
| 20:40.56 | Twingy | but not other drive |
| 20:41.04 | Twingy | yes |
| 20:41.49 | ``Erik | done a send-pr of the problem? |
| 20:42.41 | Twingy | no |
| 20:43.39 | ``Erik | odd... I haven't burnt a cd in bsd in quite a while, so mebbe they broke it since my last successful use... but someone else woulda noticed for sure if it was really broken... |
| 20:45.28 | Twingy | heh |
| 20:45.37 | Twingy | I haven't used xcdroast since 1996 when I burned like 50 cd's |
| 20:45.43 | ``Erik | are you doing some kinda tweak or tune to your machines? or are they 'out of the box'? |
| 20:45.52 | Twingy | out of the box |
| 20:46.09 | ``Erik | :/ |
| 20:58.47 | IriX64 | xcdroast -e for examine work? |
| 20:59.44 | IriX64 | i'll shutup. :) |
| 21:01.33 | IriX64 | no freaking clue what libc_iname is sposed to be or where it goes... sigh. |
| 21:02.37 | IriX64 | ill just void libc_iname(void){} and at least itll link. sigh. |
| 21:03.29 | Twingy | north korea just fired 3 missiles |
| 21:03.48 | IriX64 | you better be joking. |
| 21:03.54 | Twingy | negative |
| 21:04.00 | IriX64 | at who? |
| 21:04.03 | IriX64 | s k |
| 21:04.09 | Twingy | testing, check cnn.com |
| 21:04.22 | IriX64 | scared the pants off me thanks. |
| 21:05.26 | IriX64 | hate ppl trying to see how big a bang they can make. |
| 21:05.47 | IriX64 | that did it it links now. |
| 21:06.16 | IriX64 | btw am i welcome here im trying to build a brlcad. |
| 21:06.34 | Twingy | hm? |
| 21:06.44 | IriX64 | mh? |
| 21:06.58 | Twingy | were you askinga question or making a statement? |
| 21:07.06 | IriX64 | question. |
| 21:07.16 | IriX64 | forgot the ? |
| 21:07.20 | IriX64 | mark |
| 21:07.32 | brlcad | is there a reason for you to not be welcome? |
| 21:07.37 | IriX64 | im not quite sure what this channel is for. |
| 21:07.49 | brlcad | said it yesterday |
| 21:08.02 | IriX64 | well no but some channels are picky. |
| 21:08.09 | IriX64 | developers and help? |
| 21:08.27 | IriX64 | i have a damaged memory. |
| 21:08.33 | brlcad | if there was a brl-cad in-depth talk going on, it would take precedence over off-topic chit chat, but there's not right now so whatever |
| 21:08.44 | brlcad | otherwise, anything related to brl-cad |
| 21:08.48 | IriX64 | thankyou. |
| 21:08.58 | Twingy | thank you is two words :) |
| 21:09.04 | IriX64 | so what the fark is libc_iname. |
| 21:09.09 | IriX64 | hah so it is. |
| 21:09.26 | IriX64 | in vdeck.exe for example |
| 21:10.23 | brlcad | libc is the standard c library, that could be a lot of things |
| 21:10.40 | IriX64 | Sc.c line 139 and othewrs assignment makes integer from pointer without a cast. |
| 21:11.16 | brlcad | tis a warning, and yes there are a lot of those |
| 21:11.20 | IriX64 | but its an undefined reference to a function....ah wait i see.. thanks. |
| 21:11.27 | IriX64 | libc i mean. |
| 21:15.45 | Twingy | sweet |
| 21:15.55 | Twingy | got my external usb2.0 plextor working with xcdroast |
| 21:16.06 | Twingy | writing at 25x no less |
| 21:16.16 | Twingy | make that 28x |
| 21:17.03 | Twingy | sustaining at 40x |
| 21:17.47 | Twingy | avg speed was 30x, hrm good deal |
| 21:18.47 | Twingy | first cd I ever burned in fbsd, heh |
| 21:19.35 | Twingy | amd64 done, time for i386 |
| 21:25.14 | Twingy | 1024x768 requires too many virtual workspaces |
| 21:28.35 | Twingy | 1680x1050 even |
| 21:29.24 | Twingy | $500 less than apple |
| 21:29.34 | IriX64 | 20? shouldnt that be 21" |
| 21:29.45 | Twingy | 20.1" |
| 21:29.52 | IriX64 | :) |
| 21:30.19 | Twingy | I used to have a pair of 1280x1024 lcd's |
| 21:30.25 | Twingy | but they fizzled out |
| 21:31.11 | Twingy | so I can easily adapt to 1680x1050 |
| 21:33.47 | Twingy | I should work on finishing the paint job in the garage :| |
| 21:33.56 | IriX64 | 1024x768 is my limit, my eyes wont take any finer. |
| 21:34.17 | Twingy | sean and erik like higher the better |
| 21:34.32 | IriX64 | must be young :/ |
| 21:34.45 | ``Erik | and I run dual 1920x1200 at work |
| 21:34.54 | ``Erik | 1600x1200 on my 21" crt at home |
| 21:35.07 | Twingy | I on the other hand am quite content with 1024x768 unless I'm doing development work, then I would like 3 or 4 1024x768 screens |
| 21:35.19 | brlcad | er, i suppose "better than average" is more appropriate than perfect |
| 21:35.34 | IriX64 | must be nice to be in hardware candy shop. |
| 21:35.58 | IriX64 | i type with two figers thats why im slow. |
| 21:36.21 | ``Erik | heh... |
| 21:36.28 | Twingy | at higher resolutions I put too much stress on my eyes unless EVERYTHING is big font |
| 21:36.50 | Twingy | but usually you come across apps that don't cater to high resolutions |
| 21:36.56 | Twingy | and it causes my eyes to wig out |
| 21:37.10 | Twingy | there's always those apps that only have 1 font size |
| 21:37.35 | ``Erik | heh, dont' use 'em? :D nothing I use has that issue... :/ |
| 21:37.44 | ``Erik | afaik... other than games, which switch the resolution anyways |
| 21:40.03 | Twingy | hrm |
| 21:41.22 | Twingy | another 2GB for win2k for CCS compiler |
| 21:43.15 | IriX64 | CCS? |
| 21:43.28 | IriX64 | cross compiling system? |
| 21:44.24 | Twingy | for programming PIC microchips |
| 21:44.37 | Twingy | best compiler for them imho |
| 21:44.44 | Twingy | worth booting into windows for |
| 21:44.49 | IriX64 | ah |
| 21:54.18 | Twingy | install time |
| 22:54.46 | IriX64 | Roland the headless Thompson gunner ... thats music :) |
| 22:59.25 | IriX64 | there we go job done 1280x1024 pixels in operation |
| 22:59.44 | IriX64 | my eyes are *not this good :) |
| 23:00.29 | IriX64 | on the fly programming hehehe. |
| 01:17.33 | *** join/#brlcad IriX64 (n=IriX64@toronto-HSE-ppp4310781.sympatico.ca) | |
| 01:17.34 | IriX64 | blugh...disconnected. |
| 01:17.57 | IriX64 | ill see you people tommorow. |
| 03:07.54 | *** join/#brlcad Twingy (n=justin@c-69-250-236-111.hsd1.md.comcast.net) | |
| 03:24.21 | *** join/#brlcad Twingy (n=justin@c-69-250-236-111.hsd1.md.comcast.net) | |
| 05:27.13 | *** join/#brlcad PKMOBILE (n=Apathy@c-68-33-243-45.hsd1.md.comcast.net) | |
| 08:44.05 | *** join/#brlcad SWPadnos_ (n=Me@dsl245.esjtvtli.sover.net) | |
| 08:57.53 | *** join/#brlcad SWPadnos_ (n=Me@dsl245.esjtvtli.sover.net) | |
| 10:21.04 | *** join/#brlcad anz (n=kvirc@johvi-ypk.rescue.ee) | |
| 10:24.28 | *** part/#brlcad anz (n=kvirc@johvi-ypk.rescue.ee) | |
| 15:02.49 | CIA-9 | BRL-CAD: 03lbutler * 10brlcad/sh/ (prior.psql prior.sh): scripts to collect data from gforge tasks |
| 15:54.55 | CIA-9 | BRL-CAD: 03lbutler * 10brlcad/sh/prior.psql: expanded select so that names of the developers are included with the tasks |
| 17:14.45 | CIA-9 | BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/HACKING: gah, the horrirs. spell sentance correctlay |
| 17:28.12 | ``Erik | "special" :) |
| 17:36.54 | ValarQ | ? |
| 17:40.18 | *** join/#brlcad IriX64 (n=IriX64@toronto-HSE-ppp4310781.sympatico.ca) | |
| 17:41.28 | IriX64 | was trying to ftp send to ftp.brlcad.org got only 12kbps and it aborted anyway, go figure. |
| 17:46.36 | IriX64 | whoever put that geometry browser in mged knew what they were doing :) |
| 17:49.11 | IriX64 | the enterprise and shuttlecraft are beautiful. |
| 17:55.52 | ValarQ | how usable is 'sketch'? |
| 18:16.22 | ValarQ | and how stable is brlcad considered to be on amd64? |
| 18:19.10 | IriX64 | on my amd64 it is very stable. |
| 18:19.21 | IriX64 | what os? |
| 18:19.31 | SWPadnos | lee-nucks :) |
| 18:19.42 | IriX64 | nyuk :) |
| 18:19.43 | SWPadnos | how about SMP? |
| 18:19.54 | ValarQ | gentoo GNU/Linux |
| 18:19.59 | IriX64 | symetrical multiprocessing? ;) |
| 18:20.05 | SWPadnos | oh, thanks ;) |
| 18:20.07 | ValarQ | yes |
| 18:20.15 | ValarQ | i got 2cpus |
| 18:20.22 | SWPadnos | btw - do you actually have an Irix system? |
| 18:20.33 | IriX64 | my secret :) |
| 18:20.38 | SWPadnos | heh |
| 18:20.41 | IriX64 | linux64? |
| 18:20.49 | SWPadnos | I have an Indigo2 / R10k |
| 18:21.06 | IriX64 | i have the enterprise system :) |
| 18:21.15 | SWPadnos | lucky you |
| 18:21.28 | IriX64 | now if it would only fly :) |
| 18:21.32 | ValarQ | IriX64: yeah, my entire system is 64bit |
| 18:21.36 | SWPadnos | and transport :) |
| 18:21.41 | IriX64 | heh |
| 18:21.50 | IriX64 | is linux64 stable? |
| 18:21.54 | SWPadnos | very |
| 18:21.58 | IriX64 | for you? |
| 18:22.03 | SWPadnos | more stable than any other common 64-bit OS :) |
| 18:22.05 | SWPadnos | yes |
| 18:22.18 | SWPadnos | not on my Indigo, on my dual opteron |
| 18:22.25 | IriX64 | brlcad64 coming up ;) |
| 18:22.42 | SWPadnos | I wonder how long it would take to compile on my Opteron rig |
| 18:23.07 | IriX64 | on my system it take 45 minutes with another ten for make install. |
| 18:23.49 | SWPadnos | ok - is that the giant server with 32 R14k CPUs, or something that mere mortals might have? |
| 18:24.54 | IriX64 | i *am a mere mortal. |
| 18:24.59 | SWPadnos | oh ;) |
| 18:25.06 | IriX64 | ;) |
| 18:28.17 | ValarQ | is it possible and if so how do i make an extrude on an NMG shape or sketch? |
| 18:31.12 | IriX64 | im not a sophisticated use yet :) |
| 18:31.17 | IriX64 | user too |
| 18:31.52 | ValarQ | ok :( |
| 18:32.13 | IriX64 | these others tho get with it :) |
| 19:18.41 | brlcad | ValarQ: yes to the 64bit question and SMP support, it's a fundamental on the geometry library |
| 19:20.09 | brlcad | ValarQ: compile should take "less than an hour" depending on which Opteron -- my guess would be about 10-15 minutes for most chips |
| 19:20.49 | brlcad | quickest way to make a sketch is the type "make sketch" in the command window, it will create an empty sketch (which is of course useless) ;) |
| 19:21.36 | brlcad | more practical is to then open that sketch in the sketch editor which is accessed either via the misc menu iirc or on the Edit menu |
| 19:22.10 | brlcad | if you already have a sketch, it's trivial to extrude .. "make extrude" will get you started |
| 19:24.05 | ValarQ | ok |
| 19:26.17 | IriX64 | multiple definition of ___do_sjlj_init ? *WHY? |
| 19:27.00 | IriX64 | libz.so crtstuff.c no such fiole what gives? |
| 19:27.16 | IriX64 | file too. |
| 19:27.24 | ValarQ | brlcad: 'make foo.s extrude' just kills mged |
| 19:27.45 | ValarQ | brlcad: then when i fire up mged again 'e foo.s' almost kills my machine |
| 19:30.35 | ValarQ | and 'gdb mged core' doesn't give me much ("Cannot access memory at address 0x2b5f32dbd988") |
| 19:43.49 | brlcad | hmmm |
| 19:44.50 | ValarQ | exactly what i was saying |
| 19:45.28 | ``Erik | and the bt? |
| 19:46.14 | ValarQ | bt? |
| 19:46.26 | brlcad | ahh, so it does crash.. *ahem* |
| 19:46.35 | ``Erik | backtrace |
| 19:46.41 | brlcad | that's not the right syntax for what it's worth |
| 19:46.58 | ``Erik | eh? |
| 19:47.11 | brlcad | infinite loops until the stack is blown |
| 19:47.29 | ValarQ | ``Erik: i get no backtrace |
| 19:47.45 | ``Erik | "no backtrace" as in lots of question marks, or? |
| 19:48.22 | brlcad | i have a backtrace, looking at it |
| 19:48.33 | ``Erik | aight *shrug* |
| 19:49.57 | ValarQ | (gdb) bt |
| 19:49.57 | ValarQ | #0 0x00002b7350302843 in ?? () |
| 19:50.09 | ValarQ | thats all |
| 19:50.32 | brlcad | ValarQ: the make command was the wrong command to tell you, use the "in" command |
| 19:51.02 | brlcad | make creates a "prototypical"/example extrusion object (and clearly has some bug), that wouldn't have been extremely useful anyways |
| 19:52.23 | ValarQ | ok |
| 19:52.35 | ValarQ | what is H, A and B? |
| 19:52.43 | ValarQ | (and K for that matter) |
| 19:52.48 | brlcad | the crash has to do with it creating an empty sketch.. tries drawing a wireframe of that |
| 19:53.07 | ValarQ | ok, i can see how it fails to do that :) |
| 19:53.11 | brlcad | height vector and uniform A/B cross vectors |
| 19:53.28 | brlcad | K is the step size |
| 19:53.51 | brlcad | that is, it lets you do more than simple extrusions, you can extrude in different scaling directions |
| 19:54.08 | brlcad | simplest is to use 0 0 1 for H, and 1 0 0 and 0 1 0 for A and B |
| 19:54.16 | brlcad | play with different K values |
| 19:54.32 | brlcad | K is basically how much to extrude |
| 19:55.07 | ValarQ | ok, thanks for the help |
| 20:17.26 | IriX64 | Elapsed compilation time: 42 minutes, 32 seconds on an amd64 2.4ghz system ValarQ. |
| 20:21.04 | brlcad | that's a little slow.. |
| 20:21.12 | brlcad | for that system |
| 20:21.27 | IriX64 | --enable-everything. |
| 20:21.32 | brlcad | optimized? |
| 20:21.36 | IriX64 | yes |
| 20:21.51 | brlcad | ah, optimized will slow it down a variable amount |
| 20:22.00 | IriX64 | summat. :) |
| 20:22.01 | brlcad | gcc's not the hottest on amd64 |
| 20:22.16 | brlcad | (at least not yet) |
| 20:22.22 | IriX64 | not many are ;) |
| 20:23.39 | IriX64 | am i breaking any law trying to upload binaries to ftp.brlcad.org? orrules or anything? |
| 20:25.16 | IriX64 | ~400 meg file and i was only getting 12k/s and it aborted anyway. |
| 20:30.38 | brlcad | that's insanely oversized |
| 20:31.01 | brlcad | sounds like fully-static binaries or something |
| 20:32.28 | brlcad | no, you're not breaking the law, it's our server -- if you were providing them on a website or something similar, you'd technically be obligated to provide source as well perhaps |
| 20:34.27 | ``Erik | *yawn* |
| 20:34.40 | IriX64 | thankyou |
| 20:34.48 | ``Erik | pr for fbsd ports is submitted and binary packages uploaded to sf... booyeah |
| 20:34.52 | brlcad | the 12k/s sounds like a problem on your end |
| 20:35.05 | IriX64 | yah prolly. |
| 20:36.09 | IriX64 | ``Erik how long usually to posting for public? |
| 20:36.10 | ``Erik | you got anonftp upload on a machine with that tiny of a disk, dude? |
| 20:36.22 | ``Erik | irix64: what do you mean? the binaries on sf? or the pr for ports? |
| 20:36.39 | IriX64 | binaries. |
| 20:36.45 | ``Erik | they're already available |
| 20:36.53 | IriX64 | ty |
| 20:37.08 | brlcad | ``Erik: surprisingly anon isn't used much at all |
| 20:37.08 | ``Erik | http://sourceforge.net/project/showfiles.php?group_id=105292&package_id=113558 |
| 20:37.23 | brlcad | interesting to see some of the junk that gets uploaded |
| 20:37.30 | ``Erik | erm... I hope you don't permitted real accounts to ftp plain... |
| 20:37.37 | ``Erik | s/ed// |
| 20:37.41 | IriX64 | do you know what i tried to upload? |
| 20:37.45 | brlcad | uhm |
| 20:37.49 | brlcad | of course not |
| 20:38.06 | IriX64 | used my name in the email address password. |
| 20:38.08 | brlcad | if you try, it gives you the boot |
| 20:38.17 | ``Erik | before password? |
| 20:38.28 | brlcad | ooh, IriX64 ... |
| 20:38.36 | brlcad | heh, i might have firewalled you |
| 20:39.12 | IriX64 | what can i do sympatico insists on using your name in e-mail address well they used to anyway and im a long time member. |
| 20:39.40 | IriX64 | shouldnt that be stonewalled? :) |
| 20:40.40 | IriX64 | beautifull tank car from geometric solutions, someday i hope to be able to draw this well :) |
| 20:40.54 | brlcad | ahh, yes.. it was you |
| 20:40.56 | brlcad | connection from toronto-HSE-ppp4310781.sympatico.ca (69.159.35.87) |
| 20:41.03 | IriX64 | thats me. |
| 20:41.21 | brlcad | there were a ton of failed ftp timeout attempts coming from there |
| 20:41.37 | brlcad | looked like it was stuck in some app loop, so I killed it |
| 20:42.00 | IriX64 | last night i tried to leave it transferring and i got disconnected and my client keeps trying. shouldnt have trusted it and gone to bed. |
| 20:42.25 | IriX64 | ill be carefull now. |
| 20:42.37 | brlcad | yeah, it tried a couple hundred connections |
| 20:42.43 | brlcad | you're unblocked |
| 20:43.11 | IriX64 | and thanks. |
| 20:43.43 | brlcad | meh |
| 20:43.49 | brlcad | news does |
| 20:44.15 | brlcad | changelog is for devs, they can figure it out |
| 20:44.56 | ``Erik | and the changelog overflows 80 and has LOTS of unnecessary newlines o.O |
| 20:50.16 | CIA-9 | BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/HACKING: fold the Changelog to column 80 as part of the release steps to make Sourceforge display less evil |
| 20:52.11 | IriX64 | rendering to the tube how slick, you guys really got it right. |
| 20:52.51 | brlcad | "to the tube"? |
| 20:52.59 | IriX64 | screen. |
| 20:53.05 | brlcad | ah |
| 20:53.24 | IriX64 | old school :) |
| 20:56.34 | IriX64 | i better not turn it upside down, it'll drain all over my desk. :) |
| 20:56.59 | IriX64 | ah no it wont the hatch is closed. |
| 20:57.51 | IriX64 | raytrace complete lets get back to coding, see you people later. |
| 21:00.41 | brlcad | sometimes best to just not ask |
| 21:12.21 | ValarQ | oh, ok then |
| 21:16.47 | brlcad | ValarQ: that wasn't meant for you :) |
| 21:17.22 | ValarQ | yay :) |
| 21:18.44 | ValarQ | not that i have anything to ask, i still working to get comfortable with mged |
| 21:25.01 | CIA-9 | BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/librt/g_extrude.c: (log message trimmed) |
| 21:25.01 | CIA-9 | BRL-CAD: prevent crashing when trying to draw extrude primitives that use empty sketch |
| 21:25.01 | CIA-9 | BRL-CAD: primitives. simple statements like 'make x extrude' could cause this as well as |
| 21:25.01 | CIA-9 | BRL-CAD: using any (default) empty sketch. the wireframe drawing routing was getting |
| 21:25.01 | CIA-9 | BRL-CAD: stuck in an infinite loop allocating memory adding empty vlist items to the mged |
| 21:25.04 | CIA-9 | BRL-CAD: display list due to the comparison against a negative decrementing index. the |
| 21:25.06 | CIA-9 | BRL-CAD: code now checks for the empty sketch condition and informs the user. clean up |
| 21:25.44 | brlcad | message slightly trimmed. "clean up the code a bit in the process, e.g. do something about a couple always-true if statements.. thanks ValarQ for finding this bug." |
| 21:30.48 | ValarQ | is it posible to select primitives from the mged shell? |
| 21:31.12 | brlcad | yes, sed primitivename |
| 21:31.28 | brlcad | anything you do in the gui can be done on the command line |
| 21:32.04 | brlcad | ValarQ: have you seen the MGED Quick Reference sheet? that might help learn some of the commands |
| 21:33.13 | ValarQ | yes, didn't found sed thought, maybe i missed it |
| 21:35.09 | brlcad | under the Editing Geometry sectino |
| 21:35.44 | ValarQ | yep, only me not reading my documentation like i should |
| 21:35.47 | brlcad | understandable, as mged's concept of selecting an object implies entering an edit mode |
| 21:36.13 | ValarQ | like vi, i'll feel right at home :) |
| 21:37.53 | brlcad | heh |
| 21:38.37 | brlcad | if you like vi, mged has a vi-mode command line edit style (akin to bash's vi mode and other shells) |
| 21:43.21 | ValarQ | it's not that critical, i actually use a quite unholy combination of editors |
| 21:45.06 | CIA-9 | BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/NEWS: |
| 21:45.06 | CIA-9 | BRL-CAD: prevent crashing mged when trying to draw extrude primitives that use empty sketch primitives. |
| 21:45.06 | CIA-9 | BRL-CAD: simple statements like 'make x extrude' could cause this as well as using any (default) empty sketch. |
| 21:45.06 | CIA-9 | BRL-CAD: the wireframe drawing routing was getting stuck in an infinite loop allocating memory adding empty vlist items to the mged display list due to the comparison against a negative decrementing index. |
| 21:45.09 | CIA-9 | BRL-CAD: the code now checks for the empty sketch condition and informs the user. thanks to ValarQ for finding this bug. |
| 22:01.34 | ValarQ | ops, "ERROR: NULL struct resource pointer, file db5_comb.c, line 510" |
| 22:01.52 | brlcad | yeesh |
| 22:02.26 | brlcad | how'd you get there? |
| 22:02.43 | ValarQ | i tried to clone an object |
| 22:02.46 | brlcad | ahhhh |
| 22:03.01 | ValarQ | maybe i didn't specify the name correctly |
| 22:03.06 | brlcad | the clone command does not currently work on v5 geometry databases, that's a new command |
| 22:03.12 | ValarQ | ok |
| 22:03.13 | brlcad | it only works on v4 ones at the moment |
| 22:03.21 | brlcad | unfortunately |
| 22:03.24 | brlcad | it's a great command |
| 22:03.30 | ValarQ | maybe you understand my amd64 question now :) |
| 22:03.56 | brlcad | not sure, that problem isn't amd64-specific.. |
| 22:04.04 | brlcad | neither was the other :) |
| 22:04.24 | ValarQ | no, i just started to suspect something like that |
| 22:04.53 | brlcad | brl-cad is pretty pervasively multiplatform.. if something isn't working right it almost guaranteed to be a bonefide cross-platform logic bug of some sort |
| 22:05.31 | ValarQ | what languages is it written in? only C and tcl? |
| 22:06.14 | brlcad | at the moment, primarily C |
| 22:06.33 | brlcad | the mged and archer modelers are written in tcl/tk and itcl/itk |
| 22:06.59 | brlcad | there are several C++ projects under way as well, but not in the core atm |
| 22:07.39 | brlcad | there's actually a couple resources, such as the benchmark suite, that are written in posix bourne shell |
| 22:07.42 | ValarQ | ok, there isn't many C++ source files in the cvs head |
| 22:08.08 | brlcad | as well as a simple geometry database server written in php for web apps, and a java JNI interface for interacting with the raytrace library |
| 22:08.38 | brlcad | yeah, most of the c++ work is in other modules and a couple not in CVS yet |
| 22:09.10 | brlcad | the next generation solid modeler interface will be written primarily in C++ |
| 22:09.39 | ValarQ | but the core will remain C? |
| 22:10.29 | brlcad | that's the current plan |
| 22:11.08 | brlcad | the long long term plan is to have a C++ library layer that will eventually subsume the C core where it makes sense |
| 22:11.37 | ValarQ | ok, big move to C++ then |
| 22:11.58 | brlcad | "eventually", that's very long term |
| 22:12.00 | ValarQ | no plans to use any higher level languages then? |
| 22:12.39 | brlcad | there are, that same core written in C++ is extensively plugin-based with support for multiple higher level execution cores |
| 22:13.16 | ValarQ | sounds good |
| 22:13.17 | brlcad | currently planning on python, tcl, and shell, possibly considering lisp and perl down the road |
| 22:13.28 | brlcad | (from the onset) |
| 22:13.51 | ValarQ | scheme would be nice :) |
| 22:14.08 | brlcad | heh, everyone has a favorite :) |
| 22:14.20 | brlcad | that'll be hugely driven by developer interest |
| 22:14.47 | brlcad | if someone wants to pick up ML or Smalltalk and they're involved enough, I certainly wouldn't object ;) |
| 22:15.26 | brlcad | I'm just not going to think about them much without getting the higher-impact ones done first |
| 22:15.56 | brlcad | lisp/scheme would both be good since it could capture some of the autocad background |
| 22:17.17 | ValarQ | i'm a bit concerned... |
| 22:17.31 | brlcad | not looking to create an academic project for the sake of language coolness, the user community is coming in with specific experience that we'd like to leverage of course where possible |
| 22:17.38 | *** join/#brlcad Lapo (n=kvirc@81-208-74-176.ip.fastwebnet.it) | |
| 22:17.44 | Lapo | Hi all :-D |
| 22:17.46 | brlcad | concerned with? |
| 22:17.47 | ValarQ | i know many of those languages has good C bindings but poor bindings for OOP languages like C++ |
| 22:18.22 | ValarQ | but that might be an effect of using C++ OOP-tools in the API |
| 22:18.40 | brlcad | ValarQ: from a plugin-system perspective, all the higher level languages can be treated as scoped/classed/namespaced command sets |
| 22:18.57 | brlcad | howdy Lapo |
| 22:19.06 | ValarQ | i know for example that it's extremely easy to write Haskell wrappers for C libraries but not so easy for C++ |
| 22:19.20 | Lapo | hey op ;-) |
| 22:19.49 | brlcad | ValarQ: true, though that is really mitigated by the architecture in other ways |
| 22:20.00 | Lapo | this is a very "intelectual" conversation :-D |
| 22:20.20 | ValarQ | well, i can start worrying about it when i start coding it :) |
| 22:20.34 | brlcad | plain C wrappers would work just fine too as most all of the commands are striving to be transaction-based and mostly stateless |
| 22:20.41 | ValarQ | Lapo: nah, not "very" :) |
| 22:21.01 | Lapo | yes , to me... ;-) |
| 22:21.39 | Lapo | Guys I have a little problem about brlcad |
| 22:21.48 | Lapo | maybe you can help me... |
| 22:21.55 | Lapo | I'm a big nood -.- |
| 22:22.14 | brlcad | some services such as geometry services will be client/server based so the higher-level commands won't really need to worry about C++ per-se for a large portion of operations |
| 22:23.45 | ValarQ | using the old trusted unixmethod called pipes then :) |
| 22:24.03 | brlcad | for a lot of functionality yes ;) |
| 22:24.34 | brlcad | brl-cad already has over 400 commands that do a huge variety of functionality (that is not exposed by mged even now) |
| 22:24.56 | Lapo | ehm... |
| 22:24.59 | brlcad | those become plugins in the new system almost unmodified so they can be leveraged without rewriting a million lines of code |
| 22:25.12 | brlcad | Lapo: best to just ask your question instead of asking if you can ask.. |
| 22:25.12 | ValarQ | Lapo: just throw the question at brlcad |
| 22:25.21 | Lapo | ok |
| 22:25.23 | brlcad | ~ask |
| 22:25.24 | ibot | Questions in the channel should be specific, informative, complete, concise, and on-topic. Don't ask if you can ask a quesiton first. Don't ask if a person is there, just ask what you intended to ask them. Better questions more frequently yield better answers. We are all here voluntarily. See also http://catb.org/~esr/faqs/smart-questions.html |
| 22:25.41 | Lapo | ouch sorry guys |
| 22:25.46 | brlcad | no problem ;) |
| 22:25.58 | brlcad | everyone's allowed a freebie or two |
| 22:26.16 | Lapo | this is my problem when I start mged: |
| 22:26.47 | Lapo | Initializing and backgrounding, please wait...mged: symbol lookup error: mg |
| 22:27.01 | Lapo | ed: undefined symbol: Tk_CreateCanvasBezierType |
| 22:27.08 | ValarQ | better get some sleep, it's getting rather late over here... |
| 22:27.10 | brlcad | ah |
| 22:27.14 | Lapo | (please don't kill me) |
| 22:27.16 | ValarQ | bye folks |
| 22:27.21 | brlcad | ValarQ: nice chatting with you |
| 22:27.22 | brlcad | cheers |
| 22:27.27 | Lapo | bye ValarQ |
| 22:27.56 | brlcad | Lapo: you're linking against a system Tk (or at least lacking libtclcad) |
| 22:28.12 | brlcad | you compiled brl-cad yourself? |
| 22:28.42 | Lapo | no |
| 22:28.56 | brlcad | odd, where'd you get the binary from? |
| 22:29.39 | Lapo | I got the tar.gz from the web site , then unpacked it |
| 22:30.05 | Lapo | then compiled , and then I've copied in /usr/brlcad |
| 22:30.42 | Lapo | probably this is not the right way X-) |
| 22:30.44 | brlcad | which tar.gz |
| 22:31.03 | brlcad | so you did compile brl-cad yourself.. |
| 22:31.42 | Lapo | brlcad-7.6.0_linux_ia32.tar.bz2 |
| 22:32.42 | brlcad | okay, so you didn't compile, you unpacked.. installed to /usr/brlcad |
| 22:32.48 | brlcad | do you have a LD_LIBRARY_PATH set? |
| 22:32.50 | Lapo | right.... |
| 22:33.27 | Lapo | It seems it does not exist |
| 22:33.41 | brlcad | echo $LD_LIBRARY_PATH |
| 22:33.58 | Lapo | yes, but it return an empty string |
| 22:34.05 | Lapo | so I think it doesn't exist |
| 22:34.20 | brlcad | k |
| 22:34.26 | brlcad | hmm.. |
| 22:34.51 | brlcad | any particular reason you're useing 7.6.0 and not 7.8.0? |
| 22:35.35 | Lapo | I got that file some month ago but I can download newer version |
| 22:35.49 | brlcad | yeah, that would help |
| 22:35.58 | brlcad | a ton of stuff has changed and improved |
| 22:36.20 | Lapo | I hope installation is easier now :-D |
| 22:36.42 | Lapo | I'm a mechanical engineer and wish to use the program |
| 22:37.57 | Lapo | thanks for the help, see you ;-) |
| 22:38.38 | *** part/#brlcad Lapo (n=kvirc@81-208-74-176.ip.fastwebnet.it) | |
| 22:58.20 | CIA-9 | BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/librt/g_extrude.c: unbreak the wireframe drawing logic.. something wierd is still going on. also, try even harder to avoid crashing on a bad index by making sure we don't index past the bn_vlist points array. |
| 23:25.07 | CIA-9 | BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/librt/g_extrude.c: oop, remove the ifdef block since testing is done |
| 23:29.51 | *** join/#brlcad PrezKennedy (n=Apathy@c-68-33-243-45.hsd1.md.comcast.net) | |
| 00:53.40 | *** join/#brlcad IriX64 (n=IriX64@toronto-HSE-ppp4310781.sympatico.ca) | |
| 00:59.12 | Twingy | new pc bbl |
| 01:05.52 | *** join/#brlcad DTRemenak (n=DTRemena@c-24-23-59-104.hsd1.ca.comcast.net) | |
| 03:36.14 | *** join/#brlcad MarcC|afk (i=MarcC@ukiah-cuda1-gen2-70-36-18-129.losaca.adelphia.net) | |
| 04:10.12 | IriX64 | bbiab |
| 04:11.08 | *** join/#brlcad IriX64 (n=mario_du@toronto-HSE-ppp4310781.sympatico.ca) | |
| 04:11.16 | IriX64 | back |
| 06:17.22 | *** join/#brlcad varsendaggr (n=varsenda@67-42-224-119.blng.qwest.net) | |
| 06:17.34 | varsendaggr | hey anyone here? |
| 06:20.16 | varsendaggr | anyone get this running on a debian ? ie ubuntu? |
| 07:10.33 | *** join/#brlcad CIA-2 (i=cia@cia.navi.cx) | |
| 08:04.30 | *** join/#brlcad SWPadnos_ (n=Me@dsl245.esjtvtli.sover.net) | |
| 10:14.42 | brlcad | varsendaggr: any particular question, or just taking census? |
| 12:52.17 | *** join/#brlcad archivist (n=archivis@host217-35-76-52.in-addr.btopenworld.com) | |
| 14:34.42 | varsendaggr | brlcad, nah i just was wondering if there getting brlcad running on a debian machine is easy. i tried a while back and i had a hard time of it, however i now know more about everythign |
| 14:42.01 | varsendaggr | wow brlcad is 42 mb |
| 14:42.47 | cradek | I had trouble with autoconf on breezy but it worked fine on dapper |
| 14:42.58 | cradek | compiling cvs head of a couple days ago |
| 14:43.33 | cradek | I guess if you use a source release (which I never found) it avoids the autoconf problems because the configure script is already generated |
| 14:44.51 | brlcad | cradek: you didn't find the source release?? :) |
| 14:45.27 | brlcad | varsendaggr: it should be fairly turn-key, though I rarely get a debian box to test on so minor issues might pop up |
| 14:46.02 | varsendaggr | ohhh |
| 14:46.04 | brlcad | if gbs tools are all installed correctly, it should be a matter of ./autogen.sh && ./configure --enable-everything --enable-optimized && make |
| 14:46.25 | cradek | hmm I found brlcad.org, which talks about cvs |
| 14:46.27 | brlcad | then of course sudo make install or what have you to install |
| 14:46.32 | cradek | brlcad.com has releases for download |
| 14:46.43 | cradek | that's odd |
| 14:46.48 | brlcad | cradek: follow the first link on brlcad.org |
| 14:46.55 | varsendaggr | great |
| 14:47.00 | varsendaggr | the file is huge |
| 14:47.14 | brlcad | not so huge for a CAD system.. ;) |
| 14:48.09 | cradek | brlcad: ok, duh |
| 14:49.01 | cradek | brlcad: on brlcad.org, none of the links jumped out at me as "how to get it" except for #6 |
| 14:49.20 | brlcad | yeah the site really sucks.. |
| 14:49.33 | brlcad | it's high on the todo list to make the site suck less |
| 14:49.44 | cradek | well I didn't exactly say that |
| 14:49.58 | cradek | on brlcad.com I went right to "downloads" |
| 14:50.38 | cradek | (I don't understand why there are two completely different sites) |
| 14:52.02 | ``Erik | heh |
| 14:52.42 | ``Erik | brlcad.org is owned and operated by the developers, brlcad.com is owned and operated by a company that makes money selling documentation and training for the software... |
| 14:52.43 | ``Erik | :) |
| 14:53.03 | cradek | ok, that explains it |
| 14:54.19 | ``Erik | brlcad, maybe we should put a "Get it"! link around the "project site" and "images&screenies" links that go to the sf files page? |
| 14:54.52 | ``Erik | or put a note with thte project site link? |
| 14:54.58 | cradek | if that had been there, I would have built a release, not cvs head - which is probably what you want newbies like me to do |
| 14:55.35 | ``Erik | cradek: did you look at the cvs tags before co'ing head? |
| 14:55.41 | cradek | no |
| 14:55.58 | ``Erik | :) |
| 14:56.01 | cradek | http://brlcad.org/build_CVS.html |
| 14:56.07 | cradek | I followed the instructions... |
| 14:56.52 | brlcad | those should work too |
| 14:57.18 | brlcad | ``Erik: the entire site needs to be redone .. there's a lot more that just "how to get the source" that needs 'fixing' |
| 14:57.34 | cradek | yes but Ithink ``Erik was imlying I should have found a tag for the latest release |
| 14:57.37 | brlcad | and by fixing I mean things that involve a shotgun and the back end of a shed |
| 14:57.51 | brlcad | yeah, you could have used the last release tag |
| 14:58.03 | brlcad | that would match the source downloads on sf.net |
| 14:58.08 | cradek | I understand |
| 14:58.24 | brlcad | http://sourceforge.net/project/showfiles.php?group_id=105292 is the "official" distributions |
| 14:58.30 | cradek | I actually thought I was being a "good newbie" by precisely following the instructions |
| 14:58.47 | brlcad | nothing wrong with the approach you took :) |
| 14:59.08 | brlcad | it's a debian-caveat that something is borked with the GBS tools :) |
| 14:59.19 | brlcad | that's outside our domain/control |
| 14:59.24 | cradek | GBS? |
| 14:59.30 | brlcad | GNU Build System |
| 14:59.36 | cradek | oh autoconf stuff |
| 14:59.39 | brlcad | autoconf + automake + libtool + m4 etc |
| 14:59.46 | cradek | sure, sounds like that's not your problem |
| 15:00.03 | brlcad | got to run.. back in a few |
| 15:00.12 | cradek | probably by getting the right packages installed it would have worked, but it was easier for me to go to another machine |
| 15:13.00 | cradek | when I use g-dxf to get 3DFACEs (bag of triangles) how do I control the tesselation (how many triangles I get for say, a sphere)? |
| 15:16.10 | cradek | ok I see there are some tolerances in the manpage |
| 17:33.45 | ``Erik | O.o |
| 17:38.43 | CIA-2 | BRL-CAD: 03erikgreenwald * 10brlcad/src/librt/ (g_extrude.c g_sketch.c g_xxx.c): we don't use cake anymore (comment fix) |
| 17:49.00 | ValarQ | ymp? |
| 17:49.09 | brlcad | the cray y-mp comes to mind.. |
| 17:49.10 | SWPadnos | that's a Cray supercomputer, of course |
| 17:49.32 | brlcad | he uploaded some cross-compiled binaries labelled as 'ymp' |
| 17:49.41 | brlcad | somehow I doubt they are for a cray |
| 17:51.44 | brlcad | looks like static-compiled windows 32-bit binaries |
| 18:03.21 | SWPadnos | "Yucky Microsoft Product"? |
| 18:05.53 | brlcad | :) |
| 18:10.20 | ValarQ | SWPadnos: it's shorter just to say "Microsoft Product" |
| 18:10.49 | SWPadnos | well, I had to use the Y also ;) |
| 18:12.18 | ValarQ | yeah, my point is that it's an unlikely abbreviation :P |
| 18:15.32 | SWPadnos | indeed |
| 18:56.50 | *** join/#brlcad IriX64 (n=IriX64@toronto-HSE-ppp4310781.sympatico.ca) | |
| 19:02.12 | IriX64 | ./mged |
| 19:02.27 | IriX64 | duh. :( |
| 19:04.03 | IriX64 | low overhead scanline-per-cpu buffering <--- gotta love it. |
| 19:06.26 | IriX64 | Frame 0: 900434 rays in 101.08 sec = 8908.13 rays/sec (Wallclock) |
| 19:06.38 | IriX64 | raytrace complete. |
| 19:06.45 | IriX64 | sweet. |
| 19:06.59 | ``Erik | heh, which one is that? |
| 19:07.05 | IriX64 | havoc |
| 19:07.39 | IriX64 | nice and solid :) |
| 19:09.00 | cradek | Frame 0: 881047 rays in 22.34 sec = 39442.32 rays/sec (wallclock) |
| 19:09.12 | IriX64 | which one? |
| 19:09.18 | cradek | hey I figured out how to render something |
| 19:09.21 | ``Erik | Frame 0: 264415 rays in 1.44 sec = 183412.51 rays/sec (wallclock) |
| 19:09.24 | cradek | havoc |
| 19:09.25 | ``Erik | you people have slow computers :( |
| 19:09.34 | IriX64 | heh yeah. |
| 19:09.57 | IriX64 | 2.4ghz sucks :) |
| 19:10.07 | SWPadnos | I suppose that depends on scene complexity |
| 19:10.18 | IriX64 | and background. |
| 19:10.26 | ``Erik | the one I just ran on is 1.4ghz... |
| 19:10.27 | IriX64 | colour i mean. |
| 19:10.47 | ValarQ | IriX64: they don't suck when there are 64 of them in a cluster :P |
| 19:10.49 | IriX64 | yah ``Erik with your 16 cpus :) |
| 19:10.53 | ``Erik | 12 |
| 19:10.58 | IriX64 | heh |
| 19:11.05 | ``Erik | and, actually, I have a 4cpu 2.0ghz one that I THINK might be a hair faster |
| 19:11.08 | ``Erik | but brlcad crashes on it |
| 19:11.11 | ``Erik | *grouse* |
| 19:11.22 | IriX64 | snarl eh:) |
| 19:13.09 | IriX64 | why set the cpu's requested to 16? |
| 19:13.20 | IriX64 | in raytrace control panel? |
| 19:14.04 | IriX64 | mine says 16 cpus requested only one available using 1. |
| 19:15.09 | IriX64 | warning compile time debugging is enabled and may limit performance.... time for another build then ill race you again :) bbiab |
| 19:16.50 | brlcad | heh |
| 19:17.05 | brlcad | turning off debugging might get him 100 rays/sec |
| 19:26.14 | ``Erik | I've been able to replicate that amd64 seg bug without the --with-optimization flag... :/ |
| 19:33.52 | brlcad | that's rather uninteresting given there is no --with-optimization flag ;) |
| 19:34.13 | brlcad | more interesting if you meant --disable-optimized |
| 19:35.49 | CIA-2 | BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/ (9 files in 3 dirs): follow erik's lead, obliterate the other references to Cakefiles |
| 19:36.03 | *** join/#brlcad DTRemenak (n=Daniel_R@c-24-23-59-104.hsd1.ca.comcast.net) | |
| 19:36.06 | ``Erik | er |
| 19:36.15 | ``Erik | yeah, whatever, that knob |
| 19:36.32 | ``Erik | it's done via dialog in my latest port, so *shrug* I d'no :) |
| 19:38.09 | brlcad | can you try and see if it helps to change from/to pthreads vs some other threading lib? |
| 19:38.34 | brlcad | i can hobble up and show how to disable SMP to see if it's at least related to parallelism |
| 19:39.41 | ``Erik | um, lemme dork with it some |
| 19:40.11 | ``Erik | <-- kinda flipping through g_dsp to see how objects without explicitely known sizes are managed... |
| 19:44.39 | ``Erik | does it with both libpthread and libthr |
| 19:45.17 | ``Erik | librt/shoot.c ... stp is null, (and print *stpp shows 0x0) |
| 19:45.41 | ``Erik | this is std view on havoc, btw, and the crash LOOKS like it happens right as it touches the first glass part of the canopy |
| 19:49.38 | ``Erik | same crash with bu_avail_cpus() replaced with 1 |
| 19:49.49 | ``Erik | don't think it's threading, duder |
| 19:49.59 | brlcad | eek, g_dsp is probably not the best example.. |
| 19:50.38 | brlcad | it probably is the first glass, that would point towards something related to liboptical |
| 19:51.06 | brlcad | setting bu_avail_cpus() to 1 isn't the same as disabling SMP outright |
| 19:51.35 | brlcad | it will still acquire locks and spawn threads with 1 avail cpu |
| 19:51.45 | brlcad | (potentially) |
| 19:52.03 | ``Erik | hm *shrug* |
| 19:52.04 | brlcad | PARALLEL in include/machine.h |
| 19:53.15 | brlcad | undefine it and *poof* it should all go non-smp |
| 19:53.57 | brlcad | s/should/will/ |
| 19:54.14 | ``Erik | ghah, that cruft is still there? :/ |
| 19:54.50 | brlcad | haven't absorbed machine.h yet, impacts a ton of code, particularly ray-trace lib stuff |
| 19:55.12 | ``Erik | building... |
| 19:55.18 | brlcad | close to getting rid of the bit shift first |
| 19:56.12 | ``Erik | and a smarter make |
| 20:03.56 | ``Erik | same crash |
| 20:22.36 | *** join/#brlcad IriX64 (n=who@toronto-HSE-ppp4310781.sympatico.ca) | |
| 20:26.51 | IriX64 | almost ready to race you, I need one thing, 6 of your cluster :P |
| 20:42.42 | ``Erik | heh, which one? |
| 20:44.09 | IriX64 | geez how many clusters do you guys have :) |
| 20:44.22 | ``Erik | um, look up 'army' at the top500 list |
| 20:45.12 | IriX64 | scuse i thought you guys were engineers... oh wait, first we dig em then we die in em right. |
| 20:46.59 | IriX64 | nice truck the m35 lets see what she looks like. |
| 20:49.42 | IriX64 | summat wrong with my system, can't cut and paste sheesh. |
| 20:50.36 | IriX64 | deauce and a 1/2 without the canopy top neat. |
| 20:51.56 | ``Erik | engineers? O.o |
| 20:52.07 | IriX64 | spell it right :P |
| 20:52.36 | ``Erik | that reminds me, I wanna see barbies new jeep... |
| 20:52.54 | IriX64 | 10518.30 rays per sec wallclock. |
| 20:53.16 | IriX64 | tried barbies jeep the truck is much nicer. |
| 20:54.03 | IriX64 | whyd they put the exhaust stack on the right, driver have sensitive ears? |
| 20:54.09 | ``Erik | awwww, it's so pwetty |
| 20:54.31 | ``Erik | what, on the m35? |
| 20:54.44 | IriX64 | yeah. |
| 20:54.45 | ``Erik | visibility? |
| 20:55.05 | IriX64 | ah the passenger doesnt need to see to shoot :) |
| 20:55.35 | ``Erik | um, it's not an assault vehicle? |
| 20:55.54 | IriX64 | tell that to the guy riding shotgun :) |
| 20:56.56 | IriX64 | whats another pretty picture lets browse /db |
| 20:57.04 | ``Erik | sphflake is neato |
| 20:57.19 | IriX64 | tanks err wait... :) |
| 20:57.32 | ``Erik | tank_car.g is a halftrack I think? |
| 20:57.56 | ``Erik | ktank.g is a favorite |
| 20:59.56 | IriX64 | either a linoleum floor or a chess board i think. |
| 21:00.07 | IriX64 | sphflake that is. |
| 21:00.14 | ``Erik | did you rt it? |
| 21:00.25 | IriX64 | still rting. its big. |
| 21:00.31 | ``Erik | heh |
| 21:00.35 | IriX64 | raytrace |
| 21:02.04 | IriX64 | that took 134.81 secs. |
| 21:02.04 | ``Erik | purdee, ainnit? |
| 21:02.05 | IriX64 | so lets 2minutes and some right. |
| 21:02.10 | IriX64 | very |
| 21:02.32 | IriX64 | slow system ah well i love her anyway. |
| 21:02.54 | ``Erik | can't be any slower than my home systems |
| 21:03.07 | IriX64 | heh this is a home system. |
| 21:03.39 | IriX64 | tank_car is a railroad car already looked at that one. |
| 21:04.10 | ``Erik | <-- has 5 systems at home... 1.2 ghz g4 powerbook, 1.2ghz athlon tower, 850mhz athlon, 700mhz g3 ibook, 120mhz cyrix 6x86, and a busted sun ultra5 |
| 21:04.11 | IriX64 | star is enterprise and shuttle also very purdy. |
| 21:04.15 | ``Erik | 6, rather |
| 21:04.39 | IriX64 | heh a collector :) |
| 21:04.48 | ``Erik | not really |
| 21:04.56 | IriX64 | repair shop? |
| 21:05.02 | ``Erik | otherwise I'd still have my commodore 64's, coleco adam, etc |
| 21:05.07 | ``Erik | just haven't thrown the garbage out yet |
| 21:05.08 | ``Erik | :) |
| 21:05.13 | IriX64 | ha |
| 21:10.02 | IriX64 | well we have the floor lets dance. :) |
| 21:11.22 | brlcad | wallclock time is not the best metric for comparing raytrace times |
| 21:11.27 | brlcad | use the RTFM value |
| 21:11.28 | IriX64 | hrmph scene.r won't expand ... bug in the geometry browser, ill be back. |
| 21:11.47 | IriX64 | 7.41 secs. |
| 21:11.49 | brlcad | that isolates out system interference, startup costs, etc |
| 21:12.12 | IriX64 | 362509.86 rays/sec. |
| 21:12.48 | IriX64 | RTFM=real time frame meter ? :) |
| 21:13.34 | IriX64 | ill stay wont take long to fix. |
| 21:14.10 | IriX64 | and recompile mged. |
| 21:15.36 | IriX64 | ill ftp you the mged src, you fix it ok ? :) |
| 21:16.27 | IriX64 | btw i really like these .1 files, whose idea? |
| 21:17.00 | IriX64 | templates ala the U.S. Military, gotta love it. |
| 21:21.31 | brlcad | ray trace figure of merit :) |
| 21:21.49 | IriX64 | does sphflake.sh mean anything to you? |
| 21:21.56 | IriX64 | ty |
| 21:22.29 | IriX64 | heh doh. |
| 21:22.34 | IriX64 | me i mean. |
| 21:22.39 | brlcad | that would be a shell script that raytrace sphflake |
| 21:22.57 | IriX64 | yes works too, kudos:) |
| 21:24.48 | IriX64 | i could dcc you sphflake.sh if you like. |
| 21:26.40 | IriX64 | bbiab |
| 22:00.18 | ``Erik | ... |
| 22:01.13 | IriX64 | pummel him ``Erik. :) |
| 22:01.38 | ``Erik | actually, I'm more apt to pummel you |
| 22:01.45 | ``Erik | brlcad could benchpress like 3 of me |
| 22:01.53 | ``Erik | plus he's not a total 'tard.. |
| 22:01.56 | ``Erik | *coughcough* :) |
| 22:02.29 | IriX64 | Company in my town wants a linux build, I'm gonna take this on as a mini project :) |
| 22:04.26 | ``Erik | like the ones you can download for free from... http://sourceforge.net/project/showfiles.php?group_id=105292&package_id=113559 |
| 22:04.33 | IriX64 | ./configure --enable-almost-everything --with-x --disable-shared --enable-optimizations --build=i586-unix-linux. |
| 22:04.47 | IriX64 | don't take that the wrong way ``Erik. |
| 22:05.13 | IriX64 | shes configuring now. |
| 22:05.27 | IriX64 | they like my work what can i say? :) |
| 22:05.39 | ``Erik | *shrug* |
| 22:06.00 | IriX64 | *gasp* ;) |
| 22:06.02 | ``Erik | if you want to be actually useful, redoing builds isn't gonna accomplish that... check out http://sourceforge.net/tracker/?atid=640802&group_id=105292&func=browse |
| 22:06.08 | ``Erik | :) |
| 22:06.23 | IriX64 | who says im doing this to be useful :) |
| 22:06.30 | ``Erik | aight *shrug* |
| 22:09.49 | IriX64 | sorry eric didn't know wed switched to serious mode, ill look at some of these, ive got oodles of time on my hands. |
| 22:16.57 | IriX64 | a "piss off user key" <---- did that guy pay you for the binaries :) |
| 22:21.09 | ``Erik | eh? |
| 01:27.25 | *** join/#brlcad IriX64_ (n=who@toronto-HSE-ppp4310781.sympatico.ca) | |
| 01:29.41 | Mario | hahah already taken. |
| 01:31.18 | MarioD | now you know me :) |
| 01:31.24 | MarioD | and its registered. |
| 01:35.00 | brlcad | MarioD: what does ymp stand for? |
| 01:37.56 | MarioD | cray multi-processing |
| 01:41.04 | brlcad | heh, so you did mean that |
| 01:41.31 | brlcad | why in the world did you put that on the ftp upload to windows binaries? |
| 01:42.06 | MarioD | say what? |
| 01:42.19 | MarioD | my transfer never completed. |
| 01:43.13 | ``Erik | o.O |
| 01:43.26 | MarioD | somebody's trying to do me dirt brlcad. |
| 01:43.31 | ``Erik | new windows super computing edition for cray? blue-screen faster than ever? :D |
| 01:43.48 | MarioD | heheh ``Erik craydows :) |
| 01:44.49 | ``Erik | in case someone hasn't seen it yet.. http://www.columbusdiscgolf.com/IMAGES/LOTRsig.gif |
| 01:45.44 | MarioD | elf?!? |
| 01:46.14 | MarioD | Robin Goodfellow :) |
| 01:48.38 | ``Erik | uh... did you enjoy a lot of wall candy when you were a kid? |
| 01:49.05 | MarioD | i smoke... i don't toke :) |
| 01:49.28 | ``Erik | uh... that's not what wall candy is... |
| 01:49.38 | MarioD | judeg me by my iq number will you ? ;) |
| 01:49.47 | ``Erik | O:-) |
| 01:49.57 | MarioD | so elucidate what the fark is wall candy? |
| 01:50.08 | brlcad | MarioD: one of the transfers completed, I decompressed it |
| 01:50.24 | MarioD | no not mine, both my transfers aborted. |
| 01:50.37 | brlcad | still, doesn't explain why you'd choose a cray designation on windows binaries.. ;) |
| 01:50.42 | ``Erik | ... well... long long ago, people used lead based paint for their walls... and eventually it'd start flaking... and kids would eat it... and, uh, become slightly mentally deficient... hockey helmet, water wings, etc |
| 01:50.49 | MarioD | i DIDN'T!!! |
| 01:51.12 | ``Erik | O:-) |
| 01:51.30 | MarioD | ahhh i see eric dumb of me not to have made the connection, perhaps i inhaled a few flakes. |
| 01:51.43 | brlcad | you say they aborted.. what aborted? |
| 01:51.51 | MarioD | the uploads. |
| 01:51.58 | brlcad | i mean what were the filenames of what you were uploading.. |
| 01:52.06 | MarioD | disconnected connection closed by remote host. |
| 01:52.29 | MarioD | one was linuxbrlcad.zip and the other was ympbrlcad.zip |
| 01:52.41 | ``Erik | why 'ympbrlcad'? |
| 01:52.54 | brlcad | okay, there you have it.. yes, why ymp for windows binaries? :) |
| 01:53.05 | MarioD | man..... i was hoping youd take a chance and test it. |
| 01:53.32 | brlcad | heh |
| 01:53.41 | MarioD | do you or do you not have that cray in your database drawings file? |
| 01:54.03 | brlcad | i wouldn't copy user-provided binaries to HPC assets |
| 01:54.03 | MarioD | i dont do that eric. |
| 01:54.06 | ``Erik | yeah, like an old cray2... |
| 01:54.08 | ``Erik | but, uh... |
| 01:54.17 | ``Erik | DUDE, you DID |
| 01:54.35 | MarioD | no i didnt whats the ip it came from? |
| 01:54.38 | ``Erik | when we see 'ympbrlcad', we see "this is brlcad built for a cray machine runnign unicos" |
| 01:54.50 | MarioD | exactly. |
| 01:55.20 | MarioD | thats the problem with anonymous ftp its so easy to smear someone, now ill shut up. |
| 01:55.24 | brlcad | actually, I highly doubted it was cray binaries and simply assumed ymp had to mean something else :) |
| 01:55.33 | MarioD | heh |
| 01:55.42 | brlcad | especially after a file type showed they certainly were not |
| 01:55.49 | ``Erik | (unicos is a funkyarsed OS, btw) |
| 01:56.01 | MarioD | mvp 12 7809 |
| 01:56.27 | MarioD | smoke break. |
| 02:07.33 | MarioD | man..now it's bugging me, my transfers never completed , i swear, if you keep aborted files you should have a ymp-brlcad.zip and a partial linuxbrlcad.zip too im sorry i caused you grief, i won't repeat the mistake. |
| 02:07.58 | MarioD | back to work. |
| 02:08.00 | brlcad | there were several versions of each, it iterates versions |
| 02:08.16 | MarioD | my client keeps trying. |
| 02:08.28 | brlcad | no surprise |
| 02:08.35 | ``Erik | quit letting it do that |
| 02:08.49 | MarioD | heh yah i should not have gone to bed... sue me :) |
| 02:09.17 | MarioD | plz appoint one. |
| 02:09.25 | ``Erik | mr hat! |
| 02:09.32 | MarioD | mrs cat |
| 02:09.36 | MarioD | ! |
| 02:09.40 | ``Erik | had her |
| 02:09.42 | ``Erik | I mean, uh |
| 02:09.47 | ``Erik | O:-) |
| 02:09.57 | MarioD | heh thats the name of the house smooz. |
| 02:10.43 | MarioD | for me work calls, for you duty calls have at her....;) |
| 02:53.09 | MarioD | say ``Erik do you have access to a vax boxen? |
| 02:53.42 | MarioD | vax code generator is complete. |
| 02:58.29 | MarioD | my days as an FSE for DEC came in handy here :) |
| 02:59.27 | *** join/#brlcad DTRemenak (n=DTRemena@c-24-23-59-104.hsd1.ca.comcast.net) | |
| 07:42.53 | *** join/#brlcad Twingy (n=justin@c-69-250-236-111.hsd1.md.comcast.net) | |
| 14:04.47 | IriX64 | ./configure --build=pdp11/70 <---- system pdp11/70 not recognized... *GOOF* doh. |
| 14:05.19 | IriX64 | its pdp11 dork. :) |
| 14:06.02 | IriX64 | brlcad for the pdp11 ultrix systems, sweet. |
| 14:08.36 | IriX64 | time to build one for myself. |
| 14:40.13 | IriX64 | 10 years worth of work just to compile BRL-CAD ? ;) |
| 14:40.36 | IriX64 | ``Erik i'll buy it from you i was not given one when i left :P |
| 14:41.05 | ``Erik | if you have a pdp crosscompiler on your windows machine, I would be HIGHLY surprised. Bear in mind, just because you say --build=somearch does NOT mean it'll actually build for that arch... you need the appropriate crosscompiler installed... a full compiler for each target |
| 14:41.06 | IriX64 | they gave me a watch instead :) |
| 14:41.11 | ``Erik | (and --target is the right flag) |
| 14:41.30 | IriX64 | heh |
| 14:41.31 | IriX64 | ok |
| 14:41.59 | IriX64 | unless of course your configuring *as a pdp11/70. |
| 14:43.46 | ``Erik | eh? |
| 14:44.52 | IriX64 | set build type if a cross compiler is detected it will be used direct quote from configure. |
| 14:45.04 | IriX64 | dont use --host. |
| 14:46.33 | IriX64 | i try to configure my compiler and linker ``Erik, different approach to that of gcc. |
| 14:47.25 | IriX64 | heh where were you with your questions all these years? |
| 14:47.29 | IriX64 | :) |
| 14:47.40 | ``Erik | o.O |
| 14:48.16 | IriX64 | set CC=cassie.exe and set LD=cassield.exe is what i live by. |
| 14:48.41 | IriX64 | hrmph or in some cases die by. :) |
| 14:49.18 | IriX64 | what do you call yours? |
| 14:49.33 | ``Erik | erm, heh, which ones? |
| 14:49.35 | ``Erik | :> |
| 14:49.46 | IriX64 | the most popular one heh. |
| 14:50.00 | IriX64 | gcc right? |
| 14:50.02 | IriX64 | :) |
| 14:50.12 | ``Erik | well, I've provided aid to bigger projects... the ones that are actually mine are pet projects that haven't been released |
| 14:50.19 | ``Erik | nah, I don't mess with gcc |
| 14:50.25 | IriX64 | ill show you a collect ;) |
| 14:50.36 | ``Erik | the 'compiler' I've probably done the most with is gauche |
| 14:50.43 | IriX64 | mine will *never be released. |
| 14:50.54 | IriX64 | other plans for her. |
| 14:51.00 | ``Erik | <-- bit of a scheme head |
| 14:51.07 | IriX64 | gauche as in bouche? |
| 14:51.24 | ``Erik | no, gauche as in the japanese scheme compiler/interpreter? |
| 14:51.39 | IriX64 | ah dont know that one. |
| 15:04.47 | IriX64 | doing pix now how fast is a build on your cluster ``Erik? |
| 15:05.50 | ``Erik | um, I haven't done a build across the cluster yet |
| 15:05.51 | IriX64 | 45 mins 25 secs ... finally. |
| 15:06.22 | ``Erik | just a single node on a cluster... |
| 15:06.49 | IriX64 | sigh now 10 mins for the install... you know all computers wait at the same speed 18.2ticks/sec :) |
| 15:07.44 | ``Erik | hm, most of mine tick at either 100hz or 1000hz |
| 15:07.47 | ``Erik | depending on their role |
| 15:08.11 | IriX64 | dropped the g file did you? :) |
| 15:08.24 | ``Erik | huh? |
| 15:08.30 | IriX64 | heh |
| 15:08.53 | IriX64 | 100cps or 1000cps? |
| 15:09.52 | IriX64 | doing the jack stuff now...jack...jack shit, i know him :P |
| 15:10.15 | ``Erik | man, you need to lay off the crack |
| 15:10.33 | IriX64 | its that wall candy. |
| 15:11.18 | IriX64 | i do crack of dawn everyday |
| 15:11.46 | SWPadnos | 18.2 ticks/sec was the slowest the PC timer tick could be, but it can be much faster (possibly up to the full clock rate of 1.192MHz |
| 15:12.24 | IriX64 | the timer tick cant be changed youll break backwards compatibility. |
| 15:12.32 | SWPadnos | not really |
| 15:12.39 | IriX64 | its so. |
| 15:12.45 | IriX64 | they insist |
| 15:13.08 | SWPadnos | that may be true for DOS and Windows, but I assure you that the Linux kernel runs at 1000 Hz just fine |
| 15:13.37 | SWPadnos | or 100, or 250, or ... |
| 15:13.50 | IriX64 | its not programmable SWPadnos. |
| 15:13.53 | ``Erik | Elapsed compilation time: 3 minutes, 35 seconds |
| 15:13.55 | ``Erik | sweet |
| 15:14.09 | IriX64 | cmon. nothings that fast. |
| 15:14.15 | ``Erik | 12 core altix is |
| 15:14.24 | ``Erik | real 3m35.257s |
| 15:14.24 | ``Erik | user 14m55.047s |
| 15:14.24 | ``Erik | sys 6m18.258s |
| 15:14.27 | SWPadnos | some of us only had access to PDP-11s or PCs ;) |
| 15:14.30 | IriX64 | your serious here? |
| 15:14.44 | IriX64 | heh |
| 15:14.45 | brlcad | and that's optimized, unoptimized only takes about 2.5 minutes |
| 15:15.04 | ``Erik | numanumanuma |
| 15:15.05 | ``Erik | *duck* |
| 15:15.08 | brlcad | the 16 core takes about 2 |
| 15:15.14 | IriX64 | where do i swear allegiance :) |
| 15:15.14 | ``Erik | brlcad, you coming in today? |
| 15:15.20 | brlcad | nope |
| 15:15.26 | SWPadnos | my dual Opteron did a full optimized build in ~10 minutes, and that's dual single-core, 244s, with 800 MHz HT |
| 15:15.42 | brlcad | ``Erik: plan to actually get some work done, get some stuff coded |
| 15:15.50 | ``Erik | darn, I was hoping to bounce ideas about wdb for my meat balls |
| 15:15.59 | IriX64 | sigh im stoneage by comparison. |
| 15:16.05 | ``Erik | and the building is empty, heh |
| 15:16.23 | ``Erik | uh... opteron? ht? uh? |
| 15:16.46 | SWPadnos | heh |
| 15:17.08 | brlcad | there's a compilation threshhold where it's not really going to get any faster without parallel linking and multi-directory compilation parallelism |
| 15:17.27 | ``Erik | that's where a smarter make would be nice... :) |
| 15:17.31 | SWPadnos | are uou using recursive makefiles, or "submakefiles"? |
| 15:17.34 | IriX64 | ;) |
| 15:17.34 | SWPadnos | you |
| 15:17.36 | brlcad | there is a make rule that does parallel linking (make fast), that can give a boost on distributed compiles |
| 15:18.03 | SWPadnos | I'd bet that ccache or something similar would also help |
| 15:18.25 | ``Erik | uh, only on the second build... it makes the first a bit slower |
| 15:18.42 | brlcad | recursive |
| 15:19.09 | SWPadnos | ``Erik, ok - I wasn't sure if multiple files in the build would have an advantage (if they use similar headers) |
| 15:19.19 | brlcad | non-recursive starts to fall apart the larger the project gets |
| 15:19.35 | IriX64 | dudes whats with terra.g mged crashes on it, mapped file open failed. |
| 15:19.38 | SWPadnos | brlcad, we found that changing to a hierarchical make sped up emc compilation by ~2-3x |
| 15:19.52 | SWPadnos | and made it so you could actually cvs up and get correct builds ;) |
| 15:20.16 | SWPadnos | hmmm - maybe only 2x or so, not 3x |
| 15:20.20 | brlcad | i don't doubt that it is usually faster |
| 15:20.25 | brlcad | the tradeoffs are in other aspects |
| 15:20.42 | SWPadnos | yeah - nobody's used to the method ;) |
| 15:20.57 | IriX64 | ERROR: NULL bu_mapped_file_pointer , file g_dsp.c line 3135 |
| 15:21.00 | brlcad | if you're a project composed of projects (which brl-cad is massively), then you've suddenly lost all the "free" build rules |
| 15:21.39 | brlcad | IriX64: that's a terrain database -- you probably have to find the datafile and have it in . or somesuch |
| 15:22.02 | IriX64 | thanks |
| 15:22.03 | brlcad | i.e. it's an outboard data file that is trying to be read in, and it fails because it can't find it |
| 15:25.18 | brlcad | SWPadnos: not only are folks unfamiliar with it, you have to manually create custom clean rules for every "subproject", there's no standard naming convention and make does not expose targets leaving users to guess, read docs, read the Makefile, etc instead of using the otherwise consistent convention of using cd to designate a selection |
| 15:26.42 | SWPadnos | the ability to cd <blah> and make is great, and I'm not sure if we needed that |
| 15:26.52 | SWPadnos | (I didn't do any of the makefile work - I don't know enough about it) |
| 15:27.25 | brlcad | it's pretty simple, does emc comprise multiple projects? :) |
| 15:27.35 | brlcad | or have a lot of binaries/libraries at least |
| 15:27.38 | SWPadnos | sort of |
| 15:27.41 | SWPadnos | yes |
| 15:27.52 | brlcad | what do you consider a lot? |
| 15:27.52 | SWPadnos | there are multiple GUIs, RT components, kernel modules, etc. |
| 15:28.21 | SWPadnos | there are roughly a dozen executables, and more than a dozen kernel modules, plus generated scripts and the like |
| 15:28.22 | brlcad | not referring to configuration items |
| 15:28.42 | brlcad | configure generally handles features/modules, not make directly |
| 15:29.08 | SWPadnos | well, you run the make from the top level src dir, and only from there ;) |
| 15:29.17 | brlcad | sure |
| 15:29.27 | brlcad | that's basic non-recursive make |
| 15:30.06 | SWPadnos | it used to be recursive, and we still did things that way |
| 15:30.32 | brlcad | i implemented the start of a non-recursive make for brl-cad but it really just wasn't providing a significant benefit and was going to require a considerable amount of extra work to match was current recursive make already provides |
| 15:30.34 | SWPadnos | there were annoying complications like having to create a temp headers dir and copy all .h files there, and other ugliness |
| 15:30.37 | ``Erik | recursive make is as fast as non-recursive if your subdirs are well populated... |
| 15:32.13 | brlcad | one of my biggest complaints against it is that the main arguments against recursive make are not based on user-experience, they are founded on limitations of make itself (that "could" be fixed) |
| 15:33.09 | SWPadnos | not really |
| 15:33.13 | brlcad | theoretically, we're using automake so if they were so inclined, they could turn all the Makefile.am's into a non-recursive setup, it's just such a massive amount of work that I doubt they ever will |
| 15:33.20 | brlcad | at least not this decade |
| 15:33.29 | SWPadnos | the issue is that make can't generate a complete dependency tree, because it doens't know about everything up front |
| 15:33.53 | brlcad | uhm, that's entirely a limitation of make itself |
| 15:34.38 | SWPadnos | not really - remember, the makefiles have multiple projects in them, so the information is being intentionally kept separate |
| 15:34.39 | brlcad | has nothing to do with the user interface aspect of building projects |
| 15:35.13 | SWPadnos | right |
| 15:36.28 | SWPadnos | http://www.canb.auug.org.au/~millerp/rmch/recu-make-cons-harm.html |
| 15:36.35 | brlcad | from an automake-using project perspective, the information is all there -- I've told it exactly which subdirs that tie into it |
| 15:36.51 | brlcad | yes, that's an ancient pile of tripe :) |
| 15:37.13 | SWPadnos | heh |
| 15:37.33 | SWPadnos | well - I shouldn't waste your time - I don't know enough to discuss the subject intelligently :) |
| 15:37.36 | brlcad | the entire arguement focuses on performance limitation, not usability |
| 15:38.27 | brlcad | it sacrifices implicit usability for the sake of performance (or at best delegating the role of usability onto developer hands) |
| 15:38.43 | brlcad | instead of focusing on the limitations of make and fixing the problem there |
| 15:38.47 | SWPadnos | the argument that got me wasn't about performance |
| 15:38.50 | brlcad | or automake should you have the case |
| 15:38.55 | SWPadnos | it was correctness |
| 15:39.26 | brlcad | i'd argue that there is nothing inherintly "incorrect" about recursive make in the least |
| 15:39.29 | SWPadnos | we had problems where a build wouldn't work until you did make clean (or just did a clean checkout) |
| 15:39.38 | brlcad | make could propagate information to children make processes |
| 15:39.44 | SWPadnos | and those were all solved by changing to a non-recursive make |
| 15:40.05 | SWPadnos | they may have been due to stupidities in the original makefiles though |
| 15:41.28 | brlcad | we used to see similar issues but it almost always traced down to either an automake bug or an invalid assumption or missing dependency in some Makefile.am |
| 15:42.13 | brlcad | it took a while to get in right, but now it does assuming the automake rev isn't buggy -- all dependencies update like they're documented to work when things are edited, things generally don't get "stuck" etc |
| 15:43.51 | brlcad | the biggest problem with recursive make that I see is a similar agreement that make should propagate state information |
| 15:44.46 | brlcad | i've talked to the gnu make devs to some extent about it and they mostly agreed after a similar long debate but basically boiled down to "it'd be a lot of work" and nobody wanted to do it |
| 15:45.37 | brlcad | easier to start yet another religion by declaring the hard way incorrect and the status quo correct :) |
| 15:49.37 | SWPadnos | FSM |
| 15:49.53 | SWPadnos | sorry - new religion ;) |
| 15:57.11 | IriX64 | i like the -i switch on make it comes in very handy ;) |
| 16:00.38 | IriX64 | that file is farked, but still it should not shutdown should just report an error and keep on trucking. |
| 16:06.25 | IriX64 | smoke break bbiab. |
| 17:30.37 | IriX64 | ray tracing the m35 belly up :) |
| 17:30.52 | IriX64 | on a sky blue background. |
| 19:02.27 | *** join/#brlcad IriX64 (n=IriX64@toronto-HSE-ppp4310781.sympatico.ca) | |
| 19:50.18 | *** join/#brlcad Lapo (n=kvirc@81-208-74-176.ip.fastwebnet.it) | |
| 19:50.23 | Lapo | Hi all |
| 20:19.03 | Lapo | help close |
| 20:26.58 | *** join/#brlcad Lapo (n=kvirc@81-208-74-176.ip.fastwebnet.it) | |
| 20:27.04 | Lapo | Hi all again |
| 20:28.39 | Lapo | please Can someone help me in the installation of brl-cad? |
| 20:42.50 | ``Erik | ? |
| 20:46.00 | Lapo | Hi Erik |
| 20:49.50 | Lapo | mged: error while loading shared libraries: /usr/brlcad/lib/libtermio.so.19: ELF file OS ABI invalid |
| 20:50.09 | Lapo | I got this problem |
| 20:50.35 | Lapo | Do you have an idea of what is wrong? |
| 21:08.22 | *** part/#brlcad Lapo (n=kvirc@81-208-74-176.ip.fastwebnet.it) | |
| 21:12.16 | CIA-2 | BRL-CAD: 03johnranderson * 10brlcad/src/librtserver/rtserver.c: added (int) cast to eliminate compiler warning |
| 21:27.59 | ``Erik | heh, and he bolts |
| 23:19.44 | IriX64 | that go on often? |
| 23:20.19 | IriX64 | thought so was a static lib. |
| 23:20.53 | IriX64 | ahh well too much beer :) |
| 23:27.02 | IriX64 | This better: Frame 0: 894916 rays in 1.02 secs = 880822.83 rays/sec RTFM (Read the fine manual) |
| 23:29.34 | brlcad | .so => shared object library |
| 23:29.43 | IriX64 | .la |
| 23:29.48 | brlcad | libtool archive |
| 23:29.58 | IriX64 | .a |
| 23:30.02 | brlcad | archive |
| 23:30.12 | IriX64 | static lib? |
| 23:30.23 | brlcad | yes, static library archive |
| 23:30.36 | IriX64 | hmph :) |
| 23:30.55 | IriX64 | you know way too much to be useful ;) |
| 23:31.37 | brlcad | heh, you can run gentoo on gentoo.. |
| 23:31.40 | brlcad | http://www.obsession.se/gentoo/ |
| 23:31.54 | IriX64 | any experience with vmware? |
| 23:32.41 | brlcad | yeah, good stuff |
| 23:32.56 | IriX64 | so i hear. ... might play. |
| 23:32.57 | brlcad | used to write linux kernel code in it |
| 23:33.07 | IriX64 | that advanced? |
| 23:33.08 | brlcad | makes for a great kernel dev environment |
| 23:33.33 | brlcad | reboot the system, write filesystem drivers without potentially screwing up your main system |
| 23:33.51 | brlcad | if the kernel crashes, you just restart vmware, etc |
| 23:34.06 | brlcad | all in an app instead of waiting for hardware |
| 23:35.22 | IriX64 | nice |
| 23:35.45 | IriX64 | smoke break :) |
| 23:36.34 | brlcad | you smoke a lot |
| 23:45.46 | ``Erik | hah |
| 23:45.47 | ``Erik | wow |
| 23:46.04 | ``Erik | knowing a couple lbasic and very common file extensions is 'knowing too much', that's ripe |
| 23:46.04 | ``Erik | :) |
| 23:47.18 | ``Erik | and pungent? |
| 23:47.23 | brlcad | most definitely |
| 23:48.08 | ``Erik | zo, I am tinkink about ze wdb file format, ja? |
| 23:48.23 | brlcad | "wdb file format"? |
| 23:48.26 | ``Erik | erm |
| 23:48.27 | ``Erik | for |
| 23:48.29 | ``Erik | meat balls |
| 23:48.34 | ``Erik | sveedish ones |
| 23:48.57 | brlcad | ah, you mean how to add your prim to the .g |
| 23:49.05 | ``Erik | a float (the eval value), and a set of [point&float] |
| 23:49.48 | ``Erik | point&float pairs need to be modifiable, and need to be added to the 'metaball' after the metaball is defined |
| 23:49.56 | brlcad | would include a count at the onset so a future mod or even current code can jump to the next section fwiw |
| 23:49.58 | ``Erik | is there an obvious approach? |
| 23:50.03 | ``Erik | of course |
| 23:50.07 | brlcad | ran into that problem with the nurbs prim where it didn't do that |
| 23:50.08 | ``Erik | that's a minor optimization, though |
| 23:50.15 | brlcad | making it a bltch to add trimming info |
| 23:50.30 | brlcad | (in a backwards-compatible way) |
| 23:50.58 | brlcad | what are the point/float pairs? |
| 23:51.06 | ``Erik | heh, I've already noticed cruft from maintaining backwards compatability... |
| 23:51.26 | brlcad | probably all the v4 stuff, this isn't that bad |
| 23:51.31 | ``Erik | they're the defining points |
| 23:51.54 | brlcad | the what's the initial float? |
| 23:52.23 | brlcad | the effective power no? |
| 23:52.34 | ``Erik | a set of points, each with a field strength generates the raw 'metaball', then to get the shell, you define an value and generate an isosurface... |
| 23:52.56 | ``Erik | as far as I understand |
| 23:52.57 | brlcad | ahh, the zero-crossing value to evaluate the implicit at |
| 23:53.03 | brlcad | gotcha |
| 23:53.16 | ``Erik | yeah, f(n)-q=0 where f(n) is the metaball and q is the evaluation value |
| 23:54.02 | ``Erik | <-- not sure how to interface this via brlcad's "in" cmd or how to spec a wdb friendly way to store it... |
| 23:54.31 | ``Erik | I'd imagine having the points as a linked list spread throughout the .g would be a bad thing... |
| 23:55.18 | ``Erik | <-- wanted to bug lee about this last evening |
| 23:55.24 | ``Erik | but lee was busy and I decided I wanted to go hom :) |
| 23:55.57 | ``Erik | <-- should probably annoy lee on thursday |
| 23:57.49 | brlcad | the wdb interface is just going to call the primitive's export function, librt deals with the actual i/o |
| 23:58.22 | brlcad | the export/import functions will implicitly determine how things are stored onto disk |
| 23:58.29 | brlcad | you basically serialize your data there |
| 23:58.54 | ``Erik | hm, and there is no concept of compaction or collection ? |
| 23:59.03 | brlcad | and from the database layer's perspective, you're just stashing a binary chunk of data for the primitive |
| 23:59.20 | brlcad | there is across multiple objects |
| 23:59.43 | brlcad | and individual objects can optionally manage that on their own, though I don't think any take advantage of that right now |
| 23:59.52 | ``Erik | I mean, I could save a two floats, then an array of vec4's... |
| 23:59.53 | brlcad | the BoT's are actually a good example |
| 00:00.11 | ``Erik | but if a forcing point is added, it's overflowed its area |
| 00:00.13 | brlcad | since it's also an arbitrary list of polygon data |
| 00:00.44 | ``Erik | rt_bot_export() ? |
| 00:01.06 | brlcad | yeah, it will, and elsewhere in librt it handles how to deal with marking db nodes as invalid and reutilizing them as new writes are requested |
| 00:01.25 | brlcad | from your perspective, though, you just return your binary block of data |
| 00:02.06 | ``Erik | ahhhh, ok, so there is SOME notion of memory management built in, that's nice |
| 00:02.26 | brlcad | :) |
| 00:03.05 | brlcad | the database spec completely supports the idea.. how well the library implements it may be another contention point |
| 00:03.32 | brlcad | still, that's a fix looking for a problem.. i'd do what the other prims do for now and not worry about it (as it's generally not a problem) |
| 00:03.49 | brlcad | you can invoke a database compaction in mged with the "garbage_collect" command |
| 00:04.14 | brlcad | (full instead of the on-going dynmaic reuse) |
| 00:04.52 | ``Erik | hm |
| 00:05.19 | ``Erik | and I suppose the interface for bot is a good example for metaballs? |
| 00:06.01 | brlcad | for the db i/o it's probably not bad |
| 00:06.03 | brlcad | relatively new |
| 00:06.15 | ``Erik | I meant the user interface |
| 00:06.17 | brlcad | a little contorted with the hooks into nmg, but it's still dynamic |
| 00:06.32 | brlcad | ah, bot's have a very primitive interface |
| 00:06.40 | ``Erik | <-- is able to make, like, boxes and spheres now... |
| 00:06.50 | ``Erik | that's about the limit of my modelling ability iwth the package :) |
| 00:07.06 | brlcad | i mean you can actually tweak individual triangle vertex positions, in fact you HAVE to edit them that way :) |
| 00:07.18 | brlcad | there's no gui edit support, minimal menu support |
| 00:07.26 | brlcad | so gui-wise, they're not there |
| 00:07.42 | brlcad | something older would be better from that perspective like torus and arbs |
| 00:07.44 | ``Erik | hehehe, I didn't say anything about graphical :) |
| 00:07.57 | ``Erik | torus and arbs have a fixed number of values, though |
| 00:08.08 | ``Erik | it's the dynamic nature that is difficult... :) I think o.O |
| 00:08.11 | brlcad | btw, you mentioned the "in" command, that's src/mged/typein.c |
| 00:08.28 | brlcad | some aspects of implementation are not in the library, the live in mged or libwdb |
| 00:08.59 | brlcad | and src/tclscripts/mged of course for the tcl aspects |
| 00:09.02 | ``Erik | I started going through manual II, I got as far as making the radio and learning a little about 'mater' |
| 00:09.08 | ``Erik | that's as far as I've gotten so far... |
| 00:09.27 | ``Erik | <-- ignyant |
| 00:09.37 | brlcad | right, torus and arbs are fixed values but again that only affects the _export() and _import() routines |
| 00:09.52 | brlcad | that doesn't affect the mged hookage or raytracing |
| 00:10.50 | ``Erik | um, I'm not sure I understand... arb4 takes 4 points... period... you can't add another point to it ... or delete a point... |
| 00:10.57 | brlcad | there's a laundry list of about 10 files that HAVE to be updated to properly add a new primitive (v5 only), and a couple optional |
| 00:11.17 | ``Erik | g_xxx.c lists some of that... I'm not sure it's complete, or entirely correct... |
| 00:11.35 | brlcad | the g_ file is one of the 10 |
| 00:11.55 | ``Erik | g_xxx.c (and two others) have a big comment that say "do this, then do that, then edit this..." |
| 00:12.08 | brlcad | there's the object table in librt, the typein cmd, the make cmd, mged menu, couple headers, *scratches head* |
| 00:12.20 | ``Erik | talks about rtgeom.h, db.h, the function table, ... |
| 00:12.40 | brlcad | teh g_ template only tells you how to hook the primitive in for ray-tracing, not creation or editing |
| 00:12.46 | ``Erik | starting at line 27... |
| 00:13.31 | brlcad | those directions are outdated |
| 00:13.35 | ``Erik | I figured... |
| 00:13.36 | brlcad | those are v4 instructions |
| 00:13.45 | ``Erik | lee told me to look at 'em... I've had no success with those... |
| 00:13.55 | ``Erik | I doubt lee has added a v5 primitive |
| 00:14.21 | brlcad | the superell is the newest primitive to be added -- it's incomplete from a ray-trace perspective but it IS hooked into all the right place and is easy to grep on |
| 00:15.50 | brlcad | only thing you'll have to watch out for is that it also implements v4 support, which you really shouldn't bother with |
| 00:17.58 | brlcad | this gives the list: |
| 00:18.00 | brlcad | find . -type f \( -name \*.c -or -name \*.h \) -exec grep -r -i superell {} /dev/null \; | cut -f1 -d: | sort | uniq |
| 00:18.23 | ``Erik | heh... I know 'nuff unix for that shit, dude :) |
| 00:18.24 | brlcad | you don't need db.h, that's v4 |
| 00:18.41 | brlcad | hey, just trying to help :P |
| 00:18.53 | ``Erik | <-- not gonna look at it until thursday, is doing greening |
| 00:19.14 | ``Erik | drinking and womanizing on the weekend, then greening, *THEN* coding :D *duck* |
| 00:19.15 | brlcad | looks like I was right on the mark -- 10 files |
| 00:19.30 | brlcad | ahh, I still haven't done greening |
| 00:20.04 | ``Erik | I'm kinda surprised I'm going... jay-lo is, too |
| 00:20.10 | brlcad | wonder if it's any more informative than a week at ROTC training |
| 00:20.21 | ``Erik | the agenda looks interesting |
| 00:20.29 | ``Erik | have you done a week at rotc? |
| 00:20.35 | brlcad | yeah |
| 00:20.57 | ``Erik | heh |
| 00:20.59 | *** join/#brlcad LawrenceG (n=Lawrence@S010600045ae2c372.pk.shawcable.net) | |
| 00:21.10 | ``Erik | <-- did 3 yrs njrotc... decided it sucked balls, so started growing his hair |
| 00:21.17 | brlcad | did the whole survival boot camp, disassemble m16's, go shooting, go rapelling, early morning pt, etc |
| 00:21.48 | ``Erik | heh |
| 00:21.50 | brlcad | was considering joining rotc at the time just on a whim |
| 00:22.12 | brlcad | almost did, no particular reason I didn't other than it was a huge amount of time and I wanted to leave my options open :) |
| 00:22.39 | ``Erik | njrotc is very navy focused, and just highschool kids, so *shrug* :) no obligations |
| 00:22.43 | brlcad | shooting the m16 is pretty fun, I could see doing that as a hobby |
| 00:22.43 | ``Erik | just a way to get out of gym |
| 00:23.00 | ``Erik | I'm hoping they let us shoot 'em on monday |
| 00:23.15 | ``Erik | supposed to go to the range to learn about m16, m203, and m14... |
| 00:23.16 | brlcad | i hear they don't any more.. but who knows.. it's been years |
| 00:23.30 | ``Erik | I've held an m203 combo, and worn night vision goggles... haven't shot one |
| 00:24.06 | ``Erik | hehehe |
| 00:24.14 | ``Erik | those'd be a wee bit trickier to work out :D |
| 00:24.28 | brlcad | you'd think of all the places that could be arranged... :) |
| 00:24.32 | ``Erik | supposedly the third day, they'll have two abrams and two bradleys... "with drivers" |
| 00:25.10 | ``Erik | 40 knots on 5" of water is fun shit :) |
| 00:26.08 | brlcad | http://ftp.brlcad.org/statcvs/ |
| 00:26.52 | ``Erik | man, you went and shuffled all my files so I'm not even listed *sigh* |
| 00:26.55 | brlcad | that has bad author line counts due to the open sourcing "significant derivative work" |
| 00:27.22 | brlcad | here's a normalized one that takes it out of the picture, but then scews the project line count: http://ftp.brlcad.org/statcvs.normalized/ |
| 00:28.03 | ``Erik | huh, only 486 of my lines remain unmutilated |
| 00:28.32 | brlcad | it's not counting remaining -- it only basis the numbers on +- values in the commit log, not an annotate |
| 00:29.00 | brlcad | you feed it a cvs log and the sources only, so it's only the info it derives from those two |
| 00:29.18 | brlcad | i ran the same tool on m3 and bzflag.. interesting results :) |
| 00:29.31 | brlcad | i love how on the Authors page, you can actually see how different devs work |
| 00:29.46 | brlcad | i mean you can see when jra changed his schedule and when he even goes to lunch! |
| 00:30.54 | brlcad | you can see who's a 9-5er and who works around the clock, who infrequently participates, who's heavily involved, etc |
| 00:31.07 | ``Erik | hm |
| 00:31.12 | ``Erik | m3 cvs behavior is very... sub-par. |
| 00:31.23 | ``Erik | I'm sure you noticed long silences, then bursts of huge activity |
| 00:31.31 | ``Erik | from the dev's sitting on their changes for weeks at a time |
| 00:31.43 | ``Erik | and quit calling it m3, you're sullying the name of my car!!! |
| 00:31.56 | brlcad | lets just say you can see when the demo was given and the aftermath |
| 00:32.02 | ``Erik | hah |
| 00:32.42 | brlcad | the only thing that statcvs doesn't show that would be cool is the magnitude of the commit, it's more frequency |
| 00:33.00 | brlcad | coloring them as a heat graph instead of just red would be sweet |
| 00:33.12 | ``Erik | so, uh... fix it? |
| 00:33.20 | ``Erik | I'm sure it's just a littel perl script or something :) |
| 00:33.52 | ``Erik | http://math.missouristate.edu/~erik/normal_kittens.jpeg |
| 00:34.11 | brlcad | ask me how much time I want to put into a cvs graph program |
| 00:34.42 | ``Erik | not the 10 minutes to make the change? heh |
| 00:34.47 | brlcad | there are others that can be run that work on the cvsroot, i might give one of them a try |
| 00:35.14 | brlcad | what it did point out, though is that there are about 6 bad rcs/cvs files with wierdness in them |
| 00:35.26 | brlcad | one of them you somehow caused, and like 5 others in librt |
| 00:35.43 | ``Erik | wow, I broke a file? awesome |
| 00:35.45 | ``Erik | which one? |
| 00:35.53 | brlcad | some header in h/ that was removed |
| 00:36.03 | ``Erik | bah, who cares, then |
| 00:36.05 | ``Erik | :) |
| 00:36.19 | brlcad | well it causes problems when you branch and merge I've noticed |
| 00:36.22 | brlcad | at least the librt ones |
| 00:36.44 | brlcad | it will revive the librt directory on the branch and if you're not paying attention, you commit it |
| 00:37.05 | brlcad | has happened several times and even after it gets deleted again, it's revived later due to whatever is bad in the base rcs file |
| 00:37.49 | ``Erik | how exactly is it 'bad'? |
| 00:38.44 | brlcad | i haven't looked into the cause, just noticed the effect |
| 00:58.25 | Twingy | Thank you for contacting NVIDIA Customer Care. |
| 00:58.25 | Twingy | I am really sorry for the priviuos responce.However, due to the competitive nature of this business, we can not discuss information on unannounced future products. We apologize for the inconvenience this may cause. |
| 00:58.26 | Twingy | Regards, |
| 00:58.28 | Twingy | NVIDIA Customer Care. |
| 00:58.53 | ``Erik | nice spelling |
| 00:59.08 | Twingy | *cough* out-source much *cough* |
| 00:59.41 | Twingy | I just need a 20" display for this machine and it'll be bangin |
| 01:20.52 | IriX64 | I Trust I am amongst friends here? a greeting i used to use when i first entered a channel. |
| 01:21.37 | *** join/#brlcad Twingy (n=justin@c-69-250-236-111.hsd1.md.comcast.net) | |
| 01:21.40 | IriX64 | gotta go, new toy...vmware 5.5 or something. |
| 01:34.02 | Twingy | yet he still needs to reboot |
| 01:34.46 | Twingy | I wonder if Irix64 is Unitions cousin |
| 01:36.01 | brlcad | he's a quirky old timer |
| 01:38.13 | Twingy | laptops ship? |
| 01:48.27 | ``Erik | hahaha |
| 02:45.12 | *** join/#brlcad bjorkBSD (n=bjork@ip70-178-169-173.ks.ks.cox.net) | |
| 02:57.45 | bjorkBSD | brlcad does this sorta thing, right? -> http://www.varicad.com/gallery.phtml |
| 03:09.32 | brlcad | bjorkBSD: sure does |
| 03:10.09 | brlcad | limited gallery here: http://sourceforge.net/project/screenshots.php?group_id=105292 |
| 03:11.15 | brlcad | alas would love to chat more, but tis time to recouperate for morning training session |
| 03:11.33 | bjorkBSD | okay. thanks it looks good. |
| 04:02.08 | *** part/#brlcad LawrenceG (n=Lawrence@S010600045ae2c372.pk.shawcable.net) | |
| 06:43.52 | *** join/#brlcad DTRemenak (n=DTRemena@c-24-23-59-104.hsd1.ca.comcast.net) | |
| 08:53.26 | *** join/#brlcad fenn (n=fenn@adsl-66-72-64-24.dsl.bltnin.ameritech.net) | |
| 13:58.56 | *** join/#brlcad ^Eugenics (n=^Eugenic@bau06-1-89-81-0-71.dsl.club-internet.fr) | |
| 14:21.48 | ^Eugenics | does anyone know where to find a link that describes how to make drafts with brlcad? |
| 15:23.20 | brlcad | there's not really a link that describes the process, brl-cad has limited drafting capabilities mostly geared around providing the hidden line drawings sans annotations |
| 15:23.59 | brlcad | rtedge is the hidden line renderer, has a manpage, example at http://ftp.brlcad.org/images/havoc_rtedge.png |
| 15:32.59 | ^Eugenics | piere told me about a render to ps -> pstoedit (dxf) and then finnish up in a 2d cad app. |
| 15:33.24 | ^Eugenics | it's a pinc solutionn but still something |
| 15:33.55 | ^Eugenics | panic |
| 15:57.15 | brlcad | yeah, you can save any mged wireframe to postscript |
| 15:57.56 | brlcad | there's an output option on the file menu, as well as a handful of mged commands |
| 15:58.55 | brlcad | the MGED Quick Reference might be of interest if you haven't seen it: http://ftp.brlcad.org/MGED_Quick_Reference_Card.pdf |
| 16:00.04 | brlcad | under the Manipulating the View section, it shows the "ps" command to save to postscript -- you can similarly save to a unix .pl plot file and use pl-ps on the command line outside mged as well |
| 16:33.49 | *** join/#brlcad clock_ (i=clock@84-72-62-150.dclient.hispeed.ch) | |
| 16:34.42 | clock_ | my first patch submitted to brlcad ;-) |
| 16:36.32 | *** join/#brlcad clock_ (i=clock@84-72-62-150.dclient.hispeed.ch) | |
| 16:40.50 | brlcad | clock_: cool |
| 16:42.24 | clock_ | brlcad: I guess it's OK. I hope there are not system which BRLCAD supports where #include <time.h> doesn't work and one has to write extern long time();. |
| 16:43.59 | clock_ | brlcad: I installed OpenBSD instead of Linux. |
| 16:44.14 | clock_ | What was BSD developed on? BSD? Commercial UNIX? |
| 16:44.22 | clock_ | BSD -> BRL-CAD |
| 17:11.55 | brlcad | clock_: actually there are systems that don't have time.h still around, but they are pretty darn obscure |
| 17:12.04 | brlcad | 20+ year old systems most likely |
| 17:12.46 | brlcad | BRL-CAD was developed on a myriad of systems including BSD and SYSV variants from 20+ years ago (hence where the extern long time() comes from) |
| 17:14.12 | clock_ | brlcad: so is my patch OK? |
| 17:24.35 | ``Erik | which obsd did you install? |
| 17:26.55 | clock_ | 3.9 the latest |
| 17:27.00 | clock_ | do you use obsd? |
| 17:27.32 | clock_ | mged doesn't run without glx module inserted in X, is this mentioned in the README? |
| 17:32.46 | ``Erik | I have 3.8 installed on a work box |
| 17:32.53 | brlcad | mged will run without X |
| 17:33.17 | brlcad | the binaries just happen to be set up for x11/ogl |
| 17:33.31 | Twingy | any news on laptops? |
| 17:33.36 | clock_ | so it's a problem of opengl installation in this case |
| 17:33.48 | brlcad | Twingy: on schedule |
| 17:33.56 | Twingy | jul 15th? |
| 17:34.04 | brlcad | 21 |
| 19:27.08 | *** join/#brlcad IriX64 (n=IriX64@toronto-HSE-ppp4310781.sympatico.ca) | |
| 21:07.04 | *** join/#brlcad Lapo (n=kvirc@81-208-74-176.ip.fastwebnet.it) | |
| 21:07.11 | Lapo | Hi all guys :-D |
| 21:09.56 | Lapo | I got this problem when trying to start mged: |
| 21:10.00 | Lapo | mged: error while loading shared libraries: /usr/brlcad/lib/libtermio.so.19: ELF file OS ABI invalid |
| 21:10.08 | Lapo | Can someone help me please? |
| 21:19.18 | Lapo | Anybody there? |
| 21:33.20 | brlcad | hello |
| 21:34.48 | brlcad | if you do a "file /usr/brlcad/lib/libtermio.so.19" and "file /usr/lib/libm.so" (or whatever .so in there) .. what do you get? |
| 21:34.49 | Lapo | Hi brlcad :-) |
| 21:35.00 | Lapo | just a moment |
| 21:35.40 | Lapo | libtermio.so.19: ELF 32-bit LSB shared object, Intel 80386, version 1 (Free BSD), not stripped |
| 21:36.28 | Lapo | libm.so: symbolic link to `../../lib/libm.so.6' |
| 21:36.57 | brlcad | "file /lib/libm.so.6" |
| 21:37.55 | Lapo | libm-2.3.3.so |
| 21:38.17 | brlcad | keep running file until you get to the actual library |
| 21:38.26 | Lapo | ok |
| 21:38.36 | brlcad | or just look in the dir and pick one of the real libraries |
| 21:38.40 | ``Erik | or resolve it *shrug* |
| 21:38.41 | brlcad | doesn't matter which |
| 21:39.12 | Lapo | libm-2.3.3.so: ELF 32-bit LSB shared object, Intel 80386, version 1 (SYSV), stripped |
| 21:39.24 | ``Erik | what OS are you running, lapo? |
| 21:39.35 | Lapo | Linux Mandrake 10.1 Community |
| 21:39.45 | Lapo | on pentium 4 |
| 21:39.48 | ``Erik | then why are you trying to run a freebsd binary of brlcad? |
| 21:39.57 | Lapo | ehm... |
| 21:40.23 | Lapo | ok let me check che tar.gz file I downloaded yesterday |
| 21:40.25 | brlcad | which binary distribution did you download? |
| 21:41.09 | ``Erik | you need the one from "BRLCAD for Linux" which is 7.8.0, not the one that is "BRLCAD for FreeBSD" |
| 21:41.10 | Lapo | damn I 've deleted the tar.gz |
| 21:41.11 | ``Erik | :) |
| 21:41.12 | brlcad | you probably want< http://prdownloads.sourceforge.net/brlcad/brlcad-7.8.0_linux_ia32.tar.bz2?download |
| 21:41.29 | Lapo | ok I try to install it again |
| 21:41.36 | Lapo | sorry for the stupid problem |
| 21:41.54 | brlcad | not resolved yet, but hopefully that was the problem |
| 21:48.45 | Lapo | ouch... |
| 21:49.03 | Lapo | I've installed the version you give me. |
| 21:49.31 | Lapo | when trying to launch mged it says me: |
| 21:49.34 | Lapo | Initializing and backgrounding, please wait...mged: symbol lookup error: mged: undefined symbol: Tk_Init |
| 21:49.35 | Lapo | Mutex destroy failure: Device or resource busy |
| 21:49.35 | Lapo | ICE default IO error handler doing an exit(), pid = 8753, errno = 0 |
| 21:49.35 | Lapo | ICE default IO error handler doing an exit(), pid = 8765, errno = 0 |
| 21:49.43 | Lapo | Detached |
| 21:49.50 | brlcad | hrmph |
| 21:50.02 | Lapo | I'm really unlucky with brlcad |
| 21:50.10 | brlcad | ls -la /usr/brlcad/lib/libtk* |
| 21:50.50 | Lapo | a lot of output... |
| 21:51.16 | brlcad | heh |
| 21:51.52 | *** join/#brlcad Lapo (n=kvirc@81-208-74-176.ip.fastwebnet.it) | |
| 21:52.21 | *** join/#brlcad Lapo (n=kvirc@81-208-74-176.ip.fastwebnet.it) | |
| 21:52.32 | brlcad | ~pastebin |
| 21:52.33 | ibot | pastebin is, like, a place to paste your stuff without flooding the channel - try http://pastebin.com/, or http://pastebin.ca, or http://channels.debian.net/paste, or for #oe use http://oe.pastebin.com, or http://bzflag.pastebin.ca/ |
| 21:52.34 | Lapo | sorry I was banned cause flooding |
| 21:56.55 | Lapo | http://pastebin.ca/82749 |
| 21:59.45 | brlcad | echo $LD_LIBRARY_PATH |
| 21:59.52 | Lapo | thanks for the tip :-) |
| 21:59.59 | Lapo | ok |
| 22:00.22 | brlcad | in general if it's more than 4 lines, use pastebin :) |
| 22:00.35 | Lapo | ok ;-) |
| 22:00.46 | Lapo | ehm... no output |
| 22:00.46 | brlcad | also: ldd /usr/brlcad/bin/mged |
| 22:00.53 | brlcad | okay, that's fine |
| 22:02.19 | Lapo | http://pastebin.ca/82754 |
| 22:02.47 | Lapo | I suppose I have to check if I have all these library now |
| 22:03.17 | brlcad | no, you have them or the output would be different |
| 22:03.27 | Lapo | ok |
| 22:03.52 | brlcad | what's odd is that it can't find Tk_Init |
| 22:04.33 | Lapo | I got a similar problem months ago when installed an older version of brlcad |
| 22:05.07 | brlcad | nm /usr/brlcad/lib/libtk.a | grep Tk_Init | grep -v U |
| 22:05.58 | Lapo | 00000358 T Tk_InitOptions |
| 22:05.58 | Lapo | 00000000 T Tk_InitConsoleChannels |
| 22:05.58 | Lapo | 00000000 T Tk_InitImageArgs |
| 22:06.09 | Lapo | 00000000 T Tk_InitImageArgs |
| 22:06.10 | Lapo | 00000000 T Tk_InitStubs |
| 22:06.10 | Lapo | 00001c50 T Tk_Init |
| 22:06.46 | brlcad | baffling |
| 22:06.57 | brlcad | you have Tk_Init right there |
| 22:07.22 | Lapo | yeah |
| 22:07.44 | brlcad | you might have to just compile the package yourself |
| 22:08.06 | Lapo | wow |
| 22:08.12 | brlcad | it's pretty simple |
| 22:08.12 | Lapo | that's an hard task :-) |
| 22:08.17 | Lapo | oh ok |
| 22:08.37 | Lapo | or maybe I'll use the Windows version |
| 22:08.57 | brlcad | download this: http://prdownloads.sourceforge.net/brlcad/brlcad-7.8.2.tar.bz2?download |
| 22:09.14 | Lapo | ok now I try |
| 22:09.30 | brlcad | then when it decompresses, run "./configure --enable-optimized" |
| 22:09.54 | brlcad | then "make", then "sudo make install" or however you become superuser to install binaries |
| 22:10.06 | brlcad | delete everything in /usr/brlcad before you start |
| 22:10.22 | Lapo | ok |
| 22:15.25 | Lapo | configure gone |
| 22:15.33 | Lapo | now make |
| 22:24.22 | Lapo | make still running.... |
| 22:43.10 | Lapo | make ok |
| 22:43.16 | Lapo | now make install |
| 22:45.38 | brlcad | see, not so painful |
| 22:45.47 | Lapo | :-D |
| 22:46.11 | Lapo | finish |
| 22:46.24 | Lapo | damn |
| 22:46.29 | Lapo | same problem |
| 22:46.34 | brlcad | really? |
| 22:46.43 | Lapo | Initializing and backgrounding, please wait...mged: symbol lookup error: mged: undefined symbol: Tk_Init |
| 22:46.52 | Lapo | :-( |
| 22:47.14 | brlcad | try mged -c |
| 22:47.24 | brlcad | does it still give that error? |
| 22:47.30 | Lapo | no |
| 22:47.36 | Lapo | it aske me for an input |
| 22:47.48 | Lapo | (nu|X|ogl|) |
| 22:47.49 | brlcad | hit enter |
| 22:48.04 | brlcad | you're at an mged prompt? |
| 22:48.07 | Lapo | now I have "mged>" |
| 22:48.11 | Lapo | yes |
| 22:48.21 | brlcad | run "gui" |
| 22:48.43 | Lapo | invalid command "gui" |
| 22:49.40 | Lapo | It works!!! |
| 22:49.42 | Lapo | finally |
| 22:49.49 | brlcad | hrm? |
| 22:49.58 | Lapo | I started mged from /usr/brlcad/bin |
| 22:50.18 | Lapo | before I was starting it by typing simply mged |
| 22:50.19 | brlcad | you mean you changed directories to there? |
| 22:50.40 | brlcad | or just typed it all out? |
| 22:50.53 | Lapo | if I run locate mged: |
| 22:52.10 | Lapo | "/usr/bin/mged" |
| 22:52.20 | Lapo | "/usr/brlcad/bin/mged" |
| 22:52.31 | Lapo | I have two mged.... |
| 22:52.37 | brlcad | /usr/bin ... wicked.. |
| 22:52.44 | Lapo | yes |
| 22:53.34 | Lapo | Now I'm ready to explore brlcad |
| 22:53.40 | Lapo | thanks a lot :-D |
| 22:54.36 | brlcad | how'd you get an mged in /usr/bin? |
| 22:54.51 | Lapo | I don't know |
| 22:55.05 | Lapo | maybe I copied it there in a past installation |
| 22:55.21 | Lapo | Do you think it's better to delete it? |
| 22:56.51 | brlcad | probably |
| 22:56.59 | Lapo | ok |
| 22:57.01 | brlcad | the problem is who knows what else you copied there :) |
| 22:57.14 | brlcad | what does ldd /usr/bin/mged say? |
| 22:57.16 | Lapo | LOL |
| 22:58.40 | Lapo | http://pastebin.ca/82798 |
| 23:00.55 | brlcad | ahhh |
| 23:00.58 | brlcad | that explains it |
| 23:01.08 | brlcad | that mged wasn't linked against Tk |
| 23:01.21 | Lapo | ouch |
| 23:02.48 | Lapo | thanks for your support |
| 23:02.53 | Lapo | bye ;-) |
| 23:02.56 | brlcad | no problem |
| 23:02.59 | brlcad | glad it works |
| 23:03.10 | *** part/#brlcad Lapo (n=kvirc@81-208-74-176.ip.fastwebnet.it) | |
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| 01:07.24 | *** join/#brlcad IriX64 (n=mario_du@toronto-HSE-ppp4310781.sympatico.ca) | |
| 01:07.42 | IriX64 | regards again. |
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| 01:22.52 | *** part/#brlcad IriX64 (n=mario_du@toronto-HSE-ppp4310781.sympatico.ca) | |
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| 02:57.45 | IriX64 | fark man, sorry this client has a mind of its own:) |
| 03:15.16 | IriX64 | <- chillx has left mensa |
| 03:15.20 | IriX64 | :) |
| 03:37.30 | IriX64 | nite all |
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| 09:08.36 | CIA-2 | BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/doc/.cvsignore: initial .cvsignore file to ignore the generated pad_file.xml |
| 09:13.38 | CIA-2 | BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/ (5 files in 3 dirs): add error checking to various read() calls where a potential -1 result read error was not being taken into account |
| 09:25.54 | CIA-2 | BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/libbu/mread.c: |
| 09:25.54 | CIA-2 | BRL-CAD: initial bu_mread() function to refactor the plethora of custom mread() variants |
| 09:25.54 | CIA-2 | BRL-CAD: throughout the code. bu_mread() keeps reading until the requested number of |
| 09:25.55 | CIA-2 | BRL-CAD: bytes are read or an error occurs, an important behavior for pipes. |
| 09:26.34 | CIA-2 | BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/include/bu.h: export the new bu_mread() function call so everyone gets to use it |
| 09:26.55 | CIA-2 | BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/libbu/Makefile.am: add mread.c to the libbu build |
| 09:29.17 | CIA-2 | BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/canon/png-ipu.c: unnecessary mread declaration |
| 09:29.53 | CIA-2 | BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/canon/ (pix-ipu.c Makefile.am): refactored mread to libbu, so use bu_mread now |
| 09:31.30 | CIA-2 | BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/canon/mread.c: remove the refactored mread.c file, moved to libbu/mread.c |
| 09:44.45 | CIA-2 | BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/libpkg/pkg.c: remove the useful 'example' mread code that was replaced by pkg_inget since mread is now available in libbu as bu_mread. reorder pkg_inget so a decl is unnecessary. |
| 09:47.04 | CIA-2 | BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/libbu/mread.c: attribute kudos to at least one of the apparent original authors (even though it's been reworked some), Robert S. Miles. |
| 09:50.14 | CIA-2 | BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/AUTHORS: miles seems to have been a code contributor, not just special thanks (mread() comments) |
| 09:50.59 | CIA-2 | BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/ (fb/Makefile.am fb/bw-fb.c fb/pix-fb.c libfb/if_ab.c): refactor utilizing bu_mread now from libbu |
| 09:52.50 | CIA-2 | BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/libbu/mread.c: wrong file name in header, use mread.c |
| 10:03.08 | CIA-2 | BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/ (include/bu.h src/libbu/mread.c): change the function signature from using ints to using long ints for the count, take a void* like read(), return a long (fixing the previous bogus void) |
| 10:03.31 | *** join/#brlcad matt_ezeki_230 (n=matt@host-84-223-139-40.cust-adsl.tiscali.it) | |
| 10:05.10 | matt_ezeki_230 | hi to everybody... |
| 10:05.57 | matt_ezeki_230 | i'm a new user of this powerfull cad and i've a question for you.... |
| 10:08.30 | matt_ezeki_230 | i wonder if there is a way to insert cartesian reference frame (x-y-z axes with arrows) to obtain something like in figure 6 at page 18 of document "Volume III...." |
| 10:09.41 | CIA-2 | BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/util/Makefile.am: few more binaries rely on libbu (mread refactoring) |
| 10:11.14 | CIA-2 | BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/util/ (7 files): refactor the mread() calls to the new bu_mread() call. the bu_mread() function doesn't call perror for you, so the caller may need to if they expected it before. |
| 10:11.31 | *** join/#brlcad clock_ (i=clock@84-72-62-150.dclient.hispeed.ch) | |
| 10:12.57 | matt_ezeki_230 | "VolumeIII-Principles_of_Effective_Modeling.pdf" |
| 10:13.08 | matt_ezeki_230 | http://ftp.brlcad.org/VolumeIII-Principles_of_Effective_Modeling.pdf |
| 10:13.10 | brlcad | matt_ezeki_230: you can turn on reference coordinate axes similar to that diagram in mged |
| 10:14.02 | brlcad | under the... Modes menu |
| 10:14.10 | brlcad | select Axes |
| 10:14.30 | brlcad | probably want model or view |
| 10:15.14 | brlcad | that will not be a coordinate axis that renders, of course -- it's wireframe only -- you'd have to add geometry to get one to render |
| 10:15.45 | brlcad | have a fancy one around here somewhere.. |
| 10:20.21 | matt_ezeki_230 | brlcad thanks a million for your prompt answer |
| 10:20.22 | clock_ | brlcad: wipeooooout ;-) |
| 10:21.30 | matt_ezeki_230 | i already known this feature... i would like insert "manually" a reference frame drawing arrows and inserting symbols like x y z letters |
| 10:21.36 | matt_ezeki_230 | is it possible? |
| 10:22.43 | matt_ezeki_230 | i'd draw arrows like lines... i've heard autocad does this and i wonder if brlcad does this too |
| 10:23.29 | clock_ | brlcad: Unable to find '/lib/libplatic.so' within the BRL-CAD software installation |
| 10:23.36 | clock_ | libplatic? isn't that a typo? |
| 10:28.49 | CIA-2 | BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/other/URToolkit/cnv/rletorla.c: apply Karel Kulhavy's (clock3) patch regarding a 'Tiny bug prevents compilation on OpenBSD' (sf patch 1519270) |
| 10:30.07 | brlcad | matt_ezeki_230: hmm |
| 10:31.04 | brlcad | matt_ezeki_230: there is a means to draw pretty much any arbitrary line data into the display manager gui, you can use plot file overlays for example |
| 10:32.01 | brlcad | not one that will automatically draw the arrows per se, but you could contruct arrows using that method relatively easily enough |
| 10:32.49 | brlcad | clock_: yes, that's a typo in your .g .. there's some geometry object in there that has a material property set to "platic" instead of "plastic" |
| 10:33.08 | brlcad | not a typo in the library, typo in the geometry that you can/should fix .. |
| 10:33.37 | brlcad | if it's not obvious which object has that, you can use g2asc and search for the string with a text editor |
| 10:35.25 | clock_ | brlcad: I already found that, thanks |
| 10:35.33 | clock_ | brlcad: but rt shouldn't segfault on an invalid input file. |
| 10:36.29 | matt_ezeki_230 | plot file overlays? i'm a new user of brlcad ... can you reference a document or a guide which explains this procedure? and when you say "display manager gui", do you mean "command window" or "graphics window"? |
| 10:39.39 | brlcad | clock_: I quite agree.. though technically it didn't segfault -- it aborted gracefully |
| 10:39.49 | CIA-2 | BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/AUTHORS: |
| 10:39.50 | CIA-2 | BRL-CAD: special thanks to karel kulhavy (clock3) for his contributions to date including |
| 10:39.50 | CIA-2 | BRL-CAD: numerous bug reports, a source patch, and several example geometric databases |
| 10:39.50 | CIA-2 | BRL-CAD: relating to his work on Ronja (http://ronja.twibright.com/3d/) |
| 10:40.59 | clock_ | brlcad: no it printed an error message and then segfaulted |
| 10:41.17 | clock_ | brlcad: lol re the credits |
| 10:41.51 | clock_ | brlcad: did you put Ronja *.g files as examples into brlcad? |
| 10:41.59 | brlcad | matt_ezeki_230: the graphics window contains a 3D "display manager" and you can optionally enable/disable a 2D "framebuffer" that is overlayed/underlayed on the display manager -- they are completely separate and independant, but display together |
| 10:42.21 | clock_ | brlcad: you could put some files on the website so people will not think "that's for designing tanks too complicated for me" |
| 10:42.39 | brlcad | clock_: hmm.. well, it's not "supposed" to segfault.. might be collateral damage during the early shutdown |
| 10:42.59 | brlcad | no biggie, that error message is enormously unuseful (and even unintentional that you get to see it) |
| 10:43.25 | clock_ | brlcad: it should call exit(1) or something like that |
| 10:43.25 | brlcad | it's on the todo list to get rid of it and do what we used to do (handle the problem more gracefully, ignore the typo, etc) |
| 10:43.51 | brlcad | clock_: it does -- but something else must have been going on, perhaps other cleanup |
| 10:44.14 | brlcad | did not put the ronja .g files in as example, just referenced them |
| 10:45.13 | brlcad | if you made a single .g that had an entire Ronja apparatus setup embedded with a single top-level object, I would -- i.e. a single model showing the entire setup, with all the pieces put together |
| 10:45.58 | clock_ | brlcad: oh, you already have a reasonably simple bicycle wheel |
| 10:46.21 | brlcad | matt_ezeki_230: hm.. reference document.. yes and no.. there are manpages for all of the plot tools as well as the plot description file format -- the commands are listed in the MGED Quick Reference sheet on the main site |
| 10:52.04 | matt_ezeki_230 | brlcad: ok. just a summing up... i'd create a rigid body and save it as *.plot file using overlay capability. Then, i should edit that file (how? gnu plot?) for manually drawing a line. Right? And i can find usefull indications in http://ftp.brlcad.org/MGED_Quick_Reference_Card.pdf |
| 10:53.50 | CIA-2 | BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/ (canon/pix-ipu.c libfb/if_ab.c libpkg/pkg.c): more mread() cleanup. |
| 10:58.00 | brlcad | matt_ezeki_230: there's several possible routes.. what is your end goal? |
| 10:59.22 | brlcad | generating a diagram like the one in vol III? and if so .. what kind of diagram? |
| 11:00.13 | brlcad | ray-traced raster image, hidden line raster image rendering, wireframe non-hidden image (like mged's wireframe), something else? |
| 11:09.47 | matt_ezeki_230 | brlcad: i should generate a diagram which contains multiple cylinders interconnects each others with lines. Because each cylinder is a revolute joint it has a rotation axis and a "rotation direction" (clockwise or anticlockwise). So i must draw an arrow that indicates the "direction". Then i should generate a rigid body with a cartesian reference frame (x-y-z axes) in the same diagram. So i've asked if there is (or there are |
| 11:09.47 | matt_ezeki_230 | ) simple ways to drawing arrows as lines and inserting symbols as letters x y z. Then i give the command "rtedge -W -s1024 -o file.pix" for rendering |
| 11:11.11 | brlcad | ahh, so for hidden line raster image drawings.. presumably from arbitrary orientations too |
| 11:12.00 | matt_ezeki_230 | yes arbitrary orientations too |
| 11:12.07 | brlcad | the best way that comes to mind for doing that will be to actually utilize reference geometry that is exactly what you suggest |
| 11:12.13 | brlcad | let me see if I can find one here |
| 11:14.46 | brlcad | matt_ezeki_230: how about something like this: http://ftp.brlcad.org/images/aet/diagram.png |
| 11:15.17 | brlcad | i can provide you the geometry for that image that you could embed into your scene for rendering positioned wherever you like it |
| 11:16.18 | brlcad | the problem is that the text in that image was not added in brl-cad (though it could have been), it was done outboard in an image app since i didn't want alignment in 3d, I wanted it aligned with the 2d projection |
| 11:16.51 | brlcad | without the text, you end up with something like: http://ftp.brlcad.org/images/aet/diagram3.png |
| 11:17.38 | matt_ezeki_230 | perfect! thanks a million!!!! could you provide the geometry, please? |
| 11:17.47 | matt_ezeki_230 | dont'care about text... |
| 11:17.53 | brlcad | those coordinates are of course pretty trivial to modify, can get rid of the AET arrows and just use axes arros for example |
| 11:22.42 | matt_ezeki_230 | yes certainly... so can i find the way to create the arrowhead and the "arrowbody" reading volumeII...? |
| 11:32.33 | brlcad | yeah, volume II covers the basics of modeling .. basically just a bunch of connected cylinders |
| 11:33.01 | brlcad | okay, i've found the model .. give me a couple minutes to clean it up, and I'll post it up |
| 11:34.34 | brlcad | do you want the middle az/el twist arrows or just the coordinate axes? |
| 11:49.45 | brlcad | matt_ezeki_230: http://ftp.brlcad.org/geometry/axes.g |
| 11:52.08 | brlcad | three top-level examples, one is the one you saw rendered (aet), another is just the coordinate axes (xyz.r), another is just one pointing arrow (arrow.r) .. you can make other variations by looking down into the aet object, for example if you wanted to make a copy of aet without material properties set |
| 11:58.02 | ^Eugenics | Is there any plans for a drafting tool for brlcad? |
| 11:58.55 | ^Eugenics | Or a tool that would make drafting with a 2d cad app more easy. |
| 12:03.26 | brlcad | it's a highly requested and desireable feature of course, and it's on the (massive) todo list |
| 12:04.00 | brlcad | but we're mainly at a shortage of developer resources to drive more implementation of that and other similar features |
| 12:04.19 | brlcad | it will be a core design trait of the next modeler to come about, but that's still rather long-term away |
| 12:05.33 | brlcad | as for integrating with other 2d cad apps, it wouldn't be too difficult to hook into qcad or some similar program for drafting, but even that has some limitations and would require a lot of details to get worked out |
| 12:35.08 | clock_ | brlcad: I would appreciate it too. I could design a part for Ronja first in Brlcad, and then derive 2D drafts from that. |
| 12:35.39 | clock_ | brlcad: I am using qcad on Ronja |
| 12:43.57 | ^Eugenics | a good 2d export of chosen views would be great. |
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| 15:28.35 | CIA-2 | BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/fb/ (cat-fb.c fb-bw.c fb-orle.c): cleanup |
| 18:03.33 | CIA-2 | BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/util/Makefile.am: revive lowp adding it back to the build, not clear why it was disabled. |
| 18:04.12 | *** join/#brlcad clock_ (i=clock@84-72-63-194.dclient.hispeed.ch) | |
| 18:04.15 | CIA-2 | BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/util/lowp.c: revive lowp, updating the code to use bu_malloc instead of malloc and adding additional error checking for the read() calls |
| 18:26.02 | CIA-2 | BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/ (32 files in 10 dirs): add additional error checking to make sure a -1 return value from read() is handled |
| 18:26.32 | CIA-2 | BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/util/.cvsignore: add lowp to the ignore list |
| 18:29.01 | CIA-2 | BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/doc/ (bw.5 pix.5): what the heck is a hire size |
| 19:17.47 | CIA-2 | BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/ (39 files in 14 dirs): increase and initialize some buffer sizes to something larger in order to minimize hitting buffer limits while processing. |
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| 19:57.50 | CIA-2 | BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/util/pixbustup.c: rwval, now readval |
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| 20:46.57 | brlcad | woot, good game |
| 20:52.12 | CIA-2 | BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/include/nmg.h: bzero define block is a duplicate of said block in machine.h, removed. |
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| 21:16.51 | CIA-2 | BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/configure.ac: add setvbuf and setlinebuf to the function check list |
| 21:17.17 | CIA-2 | BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/include/config_win.h: win32 reportedly has setvbuf |
| 21:22.53 | CIA-2 | BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/libbu/linebuf.c: remove the antiquated preprocessor logic for bu_setlinebuf, using a configure check instead allowing the code to be simplified considerably |
| 21:23.40 | CIA-2 | BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/lgt/lgt.c: do what burst does with the signals, clean up the preprocessor logic slightly, ws |
| 21:26.02 | CIA-2 | BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/burst/ (burst.c grid.c): whitespace, cleanup, bye bye SYSV and STD_C defines |
| 21:57.33 | *** join/#brlcad Lapo (n=kvirc@81-208-74-176.ip.fastwebnet.it) | |
| 21:57.45 | Lapo | Hi all guys ;-) |
| 22:23.22 | brlcad | howdy! |
| 22:23.34 | brlcad | quite a game eh? :) |
| 22:27.59 | Lapo | hey @brlcad :-) |
| 22:28.35 | Lapo | I've started to play around brlcad |
| 22:35.54 | *** part/#brlcad Lapo (n=kvirc@81-208-74-176.ip.fastwebnet.it) | |
| 23:39.38 | CIA-2 | BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/configure.ac: sans stray v |
| 00:43.15 | CIA-2 | BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/libfb/tcl.c: add some error checking to fb_refresh in case there is a caller that passes a null or unnamed framebuffer, or nothing left to do with a non-positive width/height rect |
| 01:26.11 | CIA-2 | BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/ (9 files in 6 dirs): remove/rewrite a bunch of the old SYSV preprocessor symbol sections |
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| 02:14.22 | IriX64 | vmware rocks. |
| 02:14.48 | IriX64 | tried linux 6.0 in a vm. |
| 02:14.56 | IriX64 | booted but no go. |
| 02:15.12 | IriX64 | so i resorted to another os. |
| 02:15.30 | IriX64 | warp crawls on it. |
| 02:15.38 | IriX64 | but does run. |
| 03:00.16 | IriX64 | l8r |
| 03:00.19 | *** part/#brlcad IriX64 (n=mario_du@toronto-HSE-ppp4310483.sympatico.ca) | |
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| 11:15.20 | fenn | brlcad: is terrylr's work with step import in cvs anywhere? |
| 12:50.45 | brlcad | fenn: no, it's not -- I do, however, have a local version of the updated nist express parser |
| 12:51.40 | brlcad | fenn: if there is interest in picking up development, I can try to get in touch with terry to get his latest code if he's willing |
| 13:00.37 | CIA-2 | BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/HACKING: send news announcements to the new Dutch CAD for Linux portal at http://www.cad4linux.nl |
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| 14:03.30 | brlcad | fenn, let me know if you didn't get the reply on the step importer |
| 14:04.24 | *** join/#brlcad clock_ (n=clock@zux221-122-143.adsl.green.ch) | |
| 14:05.58 | clock_ | brlcad: is it possible to surf in florida? |
| 14:12.43 | CIA-2 | BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/libbu/getopt.c: ws |
| 14:17.16 | CIA-2 | BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/libsysv/ (Makefile.am getopt.c): remove getopt.c as it is no longer needed. code should be using libbu's bu_getopt. |
| 14:21.41 | brlcad | clock_: sorta.. not very well in most places though |
| 14:22.11 | brlcad | those are nice really long calm beaches mostly |
| 14:23.00 | clock_ | if a beach is long does it mean it's calm? |
| 15:39.01 | brlcad | clock_: this is pretty typical: http://www.beach-hotels.org/images/miami-beach-hotels.jpg |
| 15:39.06 | brlcad | look like you could surf that? :) |
| 16:39.45 | CIA-2 | BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/libsysv/memset.c: add the license header, intending to get rid of the duplicate src/libbu/memset.c, updating ws while we're at it. |
| 16:42.18 | CIA-2 | BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/libbu/ (Makefile.am memset.c): remove memset.c from libbu. memset() is provided by libsysv if it's not available. doesn't make sense as part of libbu unless we plan on making a bu_memset or somesuch. |
| 17:00.57 | CIA-2 | BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/liborle/rle.c: get rid of the old commented out 'speed boost' code that avoided the 'expensive' getc() call |
| 17:01.59 | CIA-2 | BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/liborle/rle.c: also get rid of the old commented out 'speed boost' code that avoided the 'expensive putc() call |
| 17:05.33 | CIA-2 | BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/configure.ac: check for winsock.h header |
| 17:06.29 | CIA-2 | BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/include/config_win.h: windows generally has the winsock.h header if we're compiling there .. it's a better define than _WIN32 for the windows platform when dealing with network code |
| 17:07.43 | CIA-2 | BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/libpkg/pkg.c: get rid of the now unused BSD define hack. use the configure check header symbols instead of platform foo including the new HAVE_WINSOCK_H |
| 17:33.52 | clock_ | brlcad: definitely not. But what if such a beach receives waves big enough? Is it surfable then? |
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| 18:01.57 | brlcad | that's a big if |
| 18:02.06 | brlcad | probably means a hurricane is coming |
| 18:10.21 | CIA-2 | BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/libsysv/bsdselect.c: update to 1990, assume basic bsd/posix conformance and availability of select. get rid of BSD defines. |
| 18:34.23 | CIA-2 | BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/util/ttcp.c: remove the old BSD hack as the define is no longer necessary nor used by the BRL-CAD build system any longer |
| 19:06.57 | CIA-2 | BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/ (19 files in 13 dirs): refactor away the old BSD block defines among other simple cleanup |
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| 19:47.14 | Lapo | Hi all ;-) |
| 19:52.01 | brlcad | howdy Lapo |
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| 21:05.56 | bjorkBSD | aloha folks. |
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| 02:29.30 | bjorkBSD | oh. irix. |
| 02:29.40 | bjorkBSD | does brlcad work on irix? |
| 02:59.06 | IriX64 | brlcad works on anything :) |
| 02:59.45 | IriX64 | kids want thr rec room, bbiab. don't let them annoy you :) |
| 03:30.31 | IriX64 | oh bjorkBSD does brlcad work on BSD? |
| 03:32.07 | IriX64 | cd /usr/linuxbrlcad/bin |
| 03:32.13 | IriX64 | ermf. |
| 03:32.59 | IriX64 | haha.. ./mged ...doesnt work on irc tho bjorkBSD |
| 03:48.31 | brlcad | bjorkBSD: but of course it does, quite an extensive irix heritage |
| 03:50.23 | *** join/#brlcad IriX64 (n=IriX64@toronto-HSE-ppp4309547.sympatico.ca) | |
| 03:50.45 | IriX64 | heh |
| 03:50.50 | IriX64 | Frame 0: 476100 rays in 0.50 sec = 952200.00 rays/sec (RTFM) |
| 03:50.58 | IriX64 | does it run? |
| 03:51.51 | IriX64 | thats wave.g llview |
| 03:52.25 | IriX64 | munchies bbiab. |
| 03:55.02 | brlcad | that's starting to look more reasonable rtfm's |
| 04:25.05 | IriX64 | Frame 0: 643481 rays in 4.11 sec = 156564.72 rays/sec (RTFM) ==bldg391 |
| 04:25.44 | IriX64 | sigh bed time nytol :) |
| 04:29.19 | bjorkBSD | what do you guys use brlcad for? |
| 04:33.51 | fenn | brlcad was designed for simulating tanks shooting each other and getting blown up by nuclear bombs |
| 04:34.07 | bjorkBSD | ah okay. |
| 04:34.11 | bjorkBSD | is that what you use it for, fenn? |
| 04:34.13 | fenn | no |
| 04:34.33 | bjorkBSD | panzer simulations for the history channel :) |
| 04:34.35 | brlcad | heh, primarily for vulnerability and lethality analyses |
| 04:34.38 | brlcad | of all sorts |
| 04:34.48 | bjorkBSD | hmm i see. |
| 04:34.50 | fenn | i wanted a free/libre parametric solid modeler that ran on linux |
| 04:35.00 | fenn | for designing.. stuff |
| 04:35.05 | bjorkBSD | like what, fenn? |
| 04:35.12 | bjorkBSD | nosey, i know. |
| 04:35.12 | brlcad | modeling military assets, performing analysis and engineering studies on the models, comparing to real-world results |
| 04:35.27 | fenn | like robot parts, turbine engines, machine tools |
| 04:35.30 | bjorkBSD | hmmm. including the engines, brlcad? |
| 04:35.35 | brlcad | mm.. parametrics |
| 04:35.47 | brlcad | hope that have that integrated soon |
| 04:35.56 | bjorkBSD | i see i see. |
| 04:36.05 | bjorkBSD | so it compares with solidworks, right? |
| 04:36.12 | fenn | i saw that was in the database format (?) but there's no way to access it? |
| 04:36.40 | brlcad | bjorkBSD: only somewhat.. they are both inherintly solid modelers with a vast overlap of functionality |
| 04:37.09 | fenn | i've never used solidworks but i'm tempted to say "no" |
| 04:37.14 | brlcad | some things brl-cad does considerably better, lots solidworks does better (e.g. gui stuff) |
| 04:37.55 | brlcad | brl-cad's worst aspect at the current moment is the mged modeler, which most unfortunately equate as mged == brl-cad which is quite far from the truth |
| 04:38.03 | fenn | brlcad: do you keep odd hours or are you just always at your computer? or both? |
| 04:38.10 | brlcad | fenn: yes :) |
| 04:38.16 | fenn | me too :) |
| 04:38.26 | bjorkBSD | ah okay. |
| 04:38.35 | bjorkBSD | so you're saying the interface is a drawback? |
| 04:39.04 | fenn | especially for people who like to use the mouse |
| 04:39.58 | bjorkBSD | ah okay. |
| 04:40.06 | bjorkBSD | the interface ... hmm. |
| 04:40.16 | brlcad | bjorkBSD: the gui interface of mged is not what most people expect/want, though the command line and feature-wise it is quite powerful |
| 04:40.34 | brlcad | full vehicles are actually modeled with it, down to the nut bolt and wire |
| 04:40.41 | brlcad | inside and out |
| 04:40.44 | bjorkBSD | it occured to me on saturday at about when was it? 2:38 pm i think(?) that the manual/tutorials are part of a software's interface. |
| 04:41.06 | fenn | i wouldnt go that far |
| 04:41.43 | fenn | an interface can be self documenting, yes, but it doesnt mean the documentation is the interface |
| 04:41.47 | bjorkBSD | why not? it's an indirect interface. |
| 04:41.58 | brlcad | somethings that brl-cad does do better than most -- our raytracing of implicits and even explicits is better (faster, more accurate) that pretty much every other major CAD vendor |
| 04:42.25 | brlcad | we're also of course extensively cross-platform where most limit to one or a few |
| 04:42.54 | brlcad | not to mention the only OSI-open source production quality solid modeling system |
| 04:43.24 | fenn | i'm not sure i understand what "solid modeling" means anymore |
| 04:43.34 | fenn | since you can do csg with meshes in blender |
| 04:44.12 | brlcad | brl-cad "geometric engine" is pretty robust, forms the basis for at least a dozen analysis codes as their data management interface, geometric analysis, ray-tracing, shotlining, etc |
| 04:44.41 | brlcad | blender is far from a solid modeler |
| 04:44.48 | brlcad | you don't need CSG to be a solid modeler |
| 04:46.04 | brlcad | you need guaranteed surface topology, crack-free surface analysis, numerical stability, a solid concept and implementation of an object's interior and exterior (generally for some engineering or analysis purpose) |
| 04:46.08 | fenn | you do need solid modeling to do csg right? |
| 04:46.25 | brlcad | no, you don't |
| 04:46.57 | brlcad | CSG simply comes from set theory and can be applied to many domains (including arbitrary mesh topology) |
| 04:47.24 | bjorkBSD | uh oh. did you say set theory? :-S |
| 04:48.00 | fenn | bjorkBSD: this is one of the few major areas of applied math :) |
| 04:48.34 | bjorkBSD | set theory? |
| 04:48.38 | bjorkBSD | ye gads. |
| 04:48.40 | fenn | 3d modeling and simulation |
| 04:48.59 | bjorkBSD | oh. |
| 04:49.00 | bjorkBSD | <PROTECTED> |
| 04:50.21 | bjorkBSD | brlcad, what do you use it for? |
| 04:51.24 | brlcad | i'm a dev, I yearn to improve the package and implement features people want |
| 04:51.33 | bjorkBSD | oh okay. |
| 04:51.49 | bjorkBSD | it's written in C? |
| 04:51.52 | bjorkBSD | or c++? |
| 04:52.31 | brlcad | number one on that list is a new modeler that leverages some of the better aspects of mged, humane interface design, and just an overall better scalable software architecture |
| 04:52.45 | brlcad | the vast majority is C |
| 04:53.24 | brlcad | the new modeler is going to be in C++, though utilizing most of the existing C libraries in brl-cad (there are over a dozen) |
| 04:53.50 | bjorkBSD | c++? |
| 04:55.11 | brlcad | it's plugin based with a swappable scripting engine so that various interpreted languages can also be integrated (tcl, python, and bash for starters, maybe also lisp/scheme and perl) |
| 04:56.51 | bjorkBSD | sounds cool. |
| 04:57.13 | bjorkBSD | i wonder what an interface to a program like brl-cad should be like :-? |
| 04:59.34 | brlcad | brl-cad is a suite of programs and functionality for starters |
| 04:59.47 | brlcad | so any "interface program" needs to leverage that |
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| 13:56.14 | CIA-9 | BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/util/dunncomm.c: tty.sg_* is not mixable with ioctl/termios so make it a #else |
| 14:10.49 | clock_ | brlcad: I got the idea that I could try making an official brlcad install package for openbsd. |
| 14:11.27 | brlcad | go for it |
| 14:12.14 | brlcad | there's no official openbsd maintainer, so that certainly could be you if you're up to it |
| 14:15.08 | clock_ | How much time from me would it require? |
| 14:21.40 | brlcad | heh |
| 14:21.58 | brlcad | how would I know that? |
| 14:23.52 | clock_ | so better not be official maintainer. I am already taken enough with Ronja. |
| 14:23.59 | brlcad | i wouldn't imagine very much once you built a couple release packages -- could even potentially automate the process |
| 14:26.39 | CIA-9 | BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/configure.ac: add a header check for dslib.h and libds for SDL /dev/scsi library availability. src/canon needs it. |
| 14:32.49 | CIA-9 | BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/canon/Makefile.am: add LIBDS to the link list, IRIX systems actually compile in functionality provided by that generic SCSI library |
| 14:35.30 | CIA-9 | BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/canon/ (canon.h canonize.c ipuscan.c ipustat.c pix-ipu.c png-ipu.c): clean up the code to remove the #if IRIX junk and instead consistently use IPU_FULL_LIB which is declared by the canon.h interface header, and that define is set when dslib.h was detected by configure. |
| 14:46.17 | clock_ | brlcad: what does the word surfari mean? |
| 14:48.26 | brlcad | going on a surfing adventure |
| 14:49.14 | clock_ | Is it a noun or verb? |
| 14:50.19 | brlcad | a noun |
| 14:50.36 | brlcad | it's not a real word (at least not yet), but surfing vernacular afaik |
| 14:51.47 | clock_ | what does make surfing an adventure? |
| 14:52.26 | clock_ | isn't surfing by default considered an adventure? |
| 14:53.53 | *** join/#brlcad clock_ (n=clock@zux221-122-143.adsl.green.ch) | |
| 14:55.13 | brlcad | you know what a safari is, yes? |
| 14:55.34 | clock_ | yes you go between lions and zebras |
| 14:55.37 | brlcad | you go on a trip, an adventure, to see wildlife of some sort |
| 14:55.56 | brlcad | a surfari would be a similar trip to go around to various places and surf |
| 14:55.59 | clock_ | I thought safari is a zoo without the fences |
| 14:56.08 | clock_ | ah OK now I understand |
| 14:56.16 | clock_ | kinda Swedish table for surfers |
| 14:56.37 | clock_ | does it become boring on a single spot? |
| 14:56.56 | brlcad | for some probably |
| 14:57.27 | clock_ | have you ever been surfing? |
| 14:57.45 | brlcad | http://www.surfaricharters.com/ |
| 14:58.37 | brlcad | erhm, we talked about surfing just last summer.. yes i have :) |
| 14:58.37 | brlcad | you were asking about santa monica and boarding at the time |
| 14:59.44 | clock_ | brlcad: I don't puff I don't need to I get the effect even without puffing |
| 15:00.01 | clock_ | Yes I remember asking about santa monica |
| 15:00.20 | clock_ | and did you like it? |
| 15:01.40 | brlcad | i love surfing |
| 15:01.53 | brlcad | quite a thrill |
| 15:02.02 | clock_ | do you still go? |
| 15:02.12 | brlcad | when I get the chance |
| 15:02.24 | clock_ | where did you use to go? |
| 15:02.31 | brlcad | there's no surfing on the east coast, only when I travel out west to cali |
| 15:02.49 | clock_ | what attracts me the most that there's no solid object that would require a care |
| 15:03.20 | brlcad | hmm? |
| 15:03.29 | clock_ | like with skateboarding I have to stay sane |
| 15:03.39 | brlcad | you have to care for your board, that takes quite a lot of attention |
| 15:03.45 | clock_ | especially considering that I am carrying a laptop on my back, which is not mine but employers |
| 15:04.00 | clock_ | I mean no ground that could hit you |
| 15:04.12 | brlcad | heh |
| 15:04.40 | brlcad | having a 10 foot wave hit you is a lot like having the ground hit you |
| 15:04.43 | clock_ | I have to care about my skateboard too when the bearing stop running smoothly I disassemble them wash them out with meth and then reassemble and lubricate |
| 15:04.59 | brlcad | plus you get the trill of very possibly drowning each time :) |
| 15:05.19 | brlcad | thrill even |
| 15:05.53 | clock_ | that's the thrill you love on surfing? |
| 15:06.19 | brlcad | nah, it's more than that |
| 15:06.27 | clock_ | I guess it's possible to surf something smaller |
| 15:06.54 | clock_ | what's the minimum size for surfing? |
| 15:07.03 | brlcad | the sun, the surf, the waves, the hot ladies, the speed of riding in with a wave |
| 15:07.22 | brlcad | minimum size? |
| 15:07.30 | brlcad | well, there's hot guys for you ;) |
| 15:07.36 | clock_ | that's better :) |
| 15:07.49 | clock_ | what speed does the wave make? |
| 15:08.10 | brlcad | *shrug* |
| 15:08.16 | clock_ | 40mph? |
| 15:08.42 | brlcad | i doubt it, but I have no idea |
| 15:09.27 | clock_ | does the have have to be on a shallow bottom to be surfable? |
| 15:09.43 | brlcad | nope, you just need a wave |
| 15:10.28 | brlcad | you going surfing or something, what's the sudden curiosity? |
| 15:10.41 | clock_ | I don't know some crosstalk in my head |
| 15:11.23 | brlcad | so not puffing anything, but maybe that ground has hit you a little too hard on the noggin' a few too many times.. :) |
| 15:11.35 | clock_ | I would like to go surfing, if it didn't cost much and wasn't in some obscure country which is either dangerous or I don't understand their local speech |
| 15:12.06 | clock_ | I haven't fallen on the skateboard |
| 15:12.12 | clock_ | actually have but only 2 times |
| 15:12.27 | brlcad | a basic surf board doesn't cost a lot more than a really nice skateboard |
| 15:12.29 | clock_ | OK 3 times |
| 15:13.01 | brlcad | couple hundred bucks, less for a beginner board |
| 15:13.08 | clock_ | getting the board is trivial. The waves are much worse. |
| 15:13.26 | brlcad | yeah, you're not exactly close to waves :) |
| 15:13.49 | clock_ | I surf the sun waves but that's not exactly the same |
| 15:13.55 | brlcad | there ya go, http://www.surfaricharters.com/surfingnicaragua.htm |
| 15:14.41 | clock_ | http://ronja.twibright.com/drawings/sunwaves.png |
| 15:14.59 | clock_ | http://ronja.twibright.com/drawings/ronja_back.png |
| 15:15.25 | clock_ | I made a t-shirt. Fluorescent orange on dark blue. The wife of my boss said she needs sunglasses to view my t-shirt :) |
| 15:15.41 | clock_ | And the wave is taken from how the receiver output looks on osciloscope |
| 15:16.38 | brlcad | has ronja ever been /.'d? |
| 15:17.00 | clock_ | yes twice |
| 15:17.11 | brlcad | thought so, just wondering |
| 15:17.28 | clock_ | once directly once together with couple other projects |
| 15:17.41 | clock_ | hmm but nicarague that's far |
| 15:18.25 | clock_ | the question is how long it takes until I stop being unusable on the board |
| 15:19.04 | brlcad | once you get going with a wave, you can ride it all the way in to shore pretty easily |
| 15:20.05 | brlcad | usually hop off before you get to shore so you don't mess up the board or fin on sand/rocks |
| 15:20.17 | clock_ | My aunt has a windsurf and a house next to a lake and she lend it to me and my brother. |
| 15:20.42 | clock_ | Brother was trying to ride the contraption, but I removed the unnecessary unmasterable foily thing and enjoyed paddling |
| 15:21.46 | clock_ | cause we go to lunch to the lake and the normal shorts dry out too long :D |
| 15:22.09 | clock_ | is it big difference between normal surfboard and windsurf board? |
| 15:23.14 | brlcad | no idea, never been windsurfing |
| 15:24.06 | clock_ | I don't like the idea of windsurfing. Too complicated for me. Surfing has an elegance of simplicity |
| 15:24.16 | clock_ | Even simpler than a snowboard :) |
| 15:25.43 | clock_ | how long is it since you've been last time? |
| 15:27.41 | brlcad | last summery |
| 15:28.19 | clock_ | hehe :) |
| 15:28.28 | clock_ | california? |
| 15:28.34 | brlcad | yes |
| 15:29.13 | clock_ | I talked with someone from san diego and he said the water is dirty that he used to get sick from that |
| 15:29.21 | clock_ | is it really dirty? |
| 15:29.59 | brlcad | nah, people from san diego are just really picky |
| 15:30.08 | brlcad | *ahem* :) |
| 15:30.20 | ValarQ | yeah, right :) |
| 15:31.32 | CIA-9 | BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/mged/ged.h: declare is_dm_null() and mged_link_vars() so callers don't have to |
| 15:31.33 | brlcad | last time I was in san diego, the ocean was really clean |
| 15:32.04 | brlcad | all up and down the coast for that matter.. beautiful water |
| 15:32.08 | clock_ | brlcad: how long does it take to somehow basically learn? |
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| 15:32.50 | brlcad | i learned the basics in just a couple hours, enough to stand up and ride a wave for a few seconds and that was on a bad weather day |
| 15:33.04 | clock_ | which weather is bad? |
| 15:33.08 | clock_ | rain and thunderstorm? |
| 15:33.23 | brlcad | no, hard winds |
| 15:33.26 | b0ef | ehlo |
| 15:33.30 | b0ef | I'm a little confused; does brl-cad do full NURBS? |
| 15:33.35 | brlcad | makes for really sharp waves, rather difficult for a newbie |
| 15:33.45 | brlcad | b0ef: yes and no |
| 15:34.12 | brlcad | b0ef: there is a full nurbs primitive implementation, but it's not tied into the mged modeler |
| 15:34.34 | brlcad | so while they can exist and be ray-traced.. you can't easily make nurbs objects outside of code |
| 15:35.10 | clock_ | brlcad: I like software projects where I can talk with the main developer about surfing instead of about how asocial they are and how long it was since they saw the last female |
| 15:35.22 | b0ef | brlcad: what about NURBS curves inside mged? |
| 15:35.54 | b0ef | brlcad: or what about bezier? |
| 15:36.08 | CIA-9 | BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/mged/ged.c: ged.h now declares the attach.c funcs |
| 15:36.19 | brlcad | b0ef: what do you mean "what about" them? |
| 15:36.23 | CIA-9 | BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/mged/clone.c: ged.h declares is_dm_null() now, bump clone version in anticipation of getting it to work here shortly |
| 15:36.39 | b0ef | brlcad: am I able to draw bezier curves inside mged? |
| 15:36.40 | brlcad | you can see them, render them, move them about.. just not easy to make them using mged |
| 15:36.44 | brlcad | ahh |
| 15:37.02 | brlcad | you can draw bezier curves using the sketch editor for the sketch primitive |
| 15:37.32 | b0ef | brlcad: nice; is it possible to calculate an offset curve? |
| 15:37.46 | brlcad | and that can be linearly extruded, but not quite the same beast as full creation/edit support of nurbs/bsplines |
| 15:37.48 | clock_ | brlcad: you said once something about some brlcad conference... |
| 15:38.00 | clock_ | is the conference on some nice surf spot? :D |
| 15:38.30 | brlcad | clock_: nope, but it is at the top of the chesapeake.. great boating and food |
| 15:39.13 | b0ef | brlcad: my goal is to trace a picture with bezier; then calculate some offset curves; I seem to find no application that is able to do that;) |
| 15:39.46 | brlcad | b0ef: oof :) |
| 15:40.15 | brlcad | i'm not sure brl-cad is going to be considerably much help in that regard as well. at least with respect to the offset curves |
| 15:40.24 | ValarQ | brlcad: which chesapeake? |
| 15:40.26 | clock_ | b0ef: you can trace with sodipodi or inkscape, but I don't know what offset curves are |
| 15:40.47 | b0ef | clock_: http://wiki.inkscape.org/wiki/index.php/PathEstimation |
| 15:40.50 | brlcad | i know a variety of ways to fake the offset within a given numerical tolerance |
| 15:41.48 | brlcad | assuming you have some geometry that defines an outline, the rtedge ray-trace tool will outline an object -- you can feed a line thickness (i.e. an offset) to the tool which it will then use to render the picture |
| 15:42.08 | brlcad | that of course only works for discrete linear offsets |
| 15:42.20 | b0ef | brlcad: sure, but I need the offset curve; a curve I can further manipulate |
| 15:42.45 | brlcad | you'd then retrace the raster image's curve.. *ahem* |
| 15:42.53 | b0ef | brlcad: no way;) |
| 15:43.18 | b0ef | <PROTECTED> |
| 15:43.18 | b0ef | it's actually a road |
| 15:43.28 | b0ef | I trace the left part of the road, then calculate the right side |
| 15:44.19 | brlcad | ahh, so not even a centerline |
| 15:44.27 | b0ef | yeah |
| 15:44.56 | brlcad | sounds like it's purely a 2D task as well? |
| 15:45.02 | b0ef | yes |
| 15:45.30 | brlcad | you actually might be better off with something like photoshop or even better, illustrator |
| 15:45.47 | brlcad | where the path can easily be traced and it'll do left/right offsets |
| 15:46.08 | b0ef | well, I don't use proprietary software, so I need to find a free software package |
| 15:46.26 | brlcad | yeah, that's a bit high-end for gimpage.. hmm |
| 15:47.05 | brlcad | do you code? :) |
| 15:47.34 | b0ef | yeah, I know it's an easy solvable mathematical way, but it's so strange that no one does it |
| 15:47.38 | brlcad | in code it wouldn't be all that horrible to hook in the ability to do the offset of a curve in brl-cad fairly easily |
| 15:48.42 | b0ef | it's only using the cross product and the normal;) |
| 15:48.53 | brlcad | actually dealing with splines in general limits the number of computer scientists that don't glaze over with an empty facial expression to just a percent or two |
| 15:49.25 | brlcad | only using the cross product and normal for discrete values, which splines generally are not :) |
| 15:49.38 | brlcad | have to integrate over the entire curve, handle degenerate cases, etc |
| 15:51.35 | brlcad | hmm..i'll be sure to add that as a desired feature to the 2D curve editor in brl-cad's next gen modeling interface |
| 15:51.57 | b0ef | brlcad: oh, nice;) |
| 15:52.09 | b0ef | what toolkit you planning to use? |
| 15:52.31 | clock_ | brlcad: what determines if there are enough waves> |
| 15:52.54 | brlcad | some of the toolkis and libs are still under consideration/review.. there's not a lot of great options |
| 15:53.12 | b0ef | brlcad: is gtk+ likely? |
| 15:54.09 | b0ef | and is NURBS planned for this new software;), hehe |
| 15:54.18 | brlcad | for the overall gui, there's only a handful of players that can deal with all the main requirements: sdl, gtk, qt, clanlib, something custom, etc |
| 15:54.53 | brlcad | oh yeah, nurbs IS still one of BRL-CAD's primitives.. it's just a pita to add stuff to MGED which is already riddled with other issues |
| 15:55.19 | b0ef | awesome |
| 15:55.52 | brlcad | mged was never really written for direct input manipulation and mouse selections on geometry |
| 15:56.17 | ValarQ | brlcad: considered using cairo for the 2D stuff? |
| 15:56.32 | brlcad | ValarQ: not sure i've heard of cairo, got a link? |
| 15:56.36 | brlcad | ~cairo |
| 15:56.38 | ibot | rumour has it, cairo is a vector graphics library designed to provide high-quality display and print output. see http://www.freedesktop.org/Cairo/Home for details. |
| 15:56.45 | ValarQ | brlcad: http://cairographics.org/ |
| 15:56.48 | b0ef | direct command manipulation is really nice |
| 15:57.03 | b0ef | too bad cairo don't do 3d |
| 15:57.18 | ValarQ | b0ef: there is OpenGL for that |
| 15:57.32 | b0ef | ValarQ: I know, but 3d might make it into cairo some day |
| 15:57.49 | b0ef | ..instead of dealing diretly with opengl |
| 15:57.51 | ValarQ | b0ef: ok, thats news to me |
| 15:58.21 | b0ef | ValarQ: I actually have a thread on the mailinglist about 3d cairo |
| 15:58.28 | brlcad | ~ibot, no cairo is a 2D graphics library with supporting various output formats like the X Window System, Win32, image buffers, and PostScript, PDF, and SVG file output. Distributed under the LGPL, written in C, see http://cairographics.org/ for details. |
| 15:58.29 | ibot | brlcad: okay |
| 15:58.49 | brlcad | bah engrish |
| 15:59.01 | ValarQ | b0ef: what list? |
| 15:59.08 | b0ef | ValarQ: the cairo list |
| 15:59.54 | ValarQ | b0ef: ok, i'll have a look at it |
| 16:00.15 | brlcad | ValarQ: I hadn't looked into them yet, thanks for the link.. their image buffer and opengl output backends sound interesting |
| 16:02.11 | brlcad | there's also pretty interesting potential to use them for the gui widgets.. something like an svg-based render layer for a scalable/zoomable interface |
| 16:02.30 | ValarQ | brlcad: yeah, there is gtk engines for cairo actually |
| 16:03.11 | ValarQ | brlcad: should be really intresting when they start using the glitz backend |
| 16:04.02 | brlcad | unfortunately, gtk is one of the least appealing of the toolkits for various management reasons |
| 16:04.21 | b0ef | as gtk now uses cairo, the interface is zoomable |
| 16:04.31 | b0ef | oh, no;) |
| 16:05.27 | b0ef | a gimp style interface would be nice, with an emacs interface;) |
| 16:05.39 | ValarQ | brlcad: gtk was just an example of something using cairo itself |
| 16:06.16 | ValarQ | brlcad: many toolkits should be able to embedd cairo |
| 16:06.19 | brlcad | the interface style of the new environment is already set -- full context management |
| 16:06.50 | ValarQ | whats that? |
| 16:06.55 | brlcad | instead of the mged-/gimp-style many independent windows that coordinate |
| 16:07.09 | brlcad | helps to think of what games do |
| 16:07.16 | brlcad | or other major CAD systems for that matter |
| 16:07.39 | ValarQ | to bad :/ |
| 16:07.44 | brlcad | but most definitely not looking or functioning like eitherr |
| 16:08.20 | b0ef | still not sure what that means |
| 16:08.40 | b0ef | ValarQ: indeed;) |
| 16:09.32 | archivist | you waste too much time window swapping then |
| 16:09.37 | ValarQ | there is to many apps out there that looks like they embed Xnest |
| 16:10.01 | brlcad | it's still a possibility to have some sort of toggle, but it goes against most researched humane interface design principles |
| 16:10.33 | brlcad | even the concept of simply having "windows" that you have to manage and hierarchical "folders" as well |
| 16:11.24 | archivist | I believe toolbars should come and go as needed (automagicly most of the time) |
| 16:11.49 | b0ef | when you find yourself on the side of the majority, it's time to think again;) |
| 16:12.43 | brlcad | b0ef: i don't think the design approach i'm considering is anywhere close to a majority, other than paying attention to some of the most successful application interface environments in the gaming industry |
| 16:13.27 | b0ef | brlcad: in any case; I'm happy for a NURBS environment; somethine missing totally in the free software world;) |
| 16:13.46 | b0ef | s/somethine/something/ |
| 16:14.01 | ValarQ | brlcad: wasn't those applications developed for platforms with very poor windowsmanagers? |
| 16:15.12 | brlcad | ValarQ: yes and no.. I'd say they were simply designed to work well with minimal dependencies on their environment since there's limited assumptions you can make about it |
| 16:15.44 | brlcad | as an extensively cross-platform CAD system, we have a lot of the same issues |
| 16:17.20 | brlcad | the mac environment would serve as a nice fully integrateable environment where multiple applications can easily be hooked in with pretty much guaranteed assurance of their behavior and existance |
| 16:17.33 | brlcad | but then that is of course a rather limited subset of the community |
| 16:17.39 | clock_ | brlcad: I once needed to print a webpage on MAC and I got creeps |
| 16:17.49 | brlcad | linux and BSD pretty much give you no guarantees :) |
| 16:18.08 | clock_ | I couldn't find the print function. After extensive search I realized I have to go into a menu of different window than the browser! |
| 16:18.19 | brlcad | clock_: for an exceptional cost -- one which traditionally nobody wants to pay for :) |
| 16:18.38 | brlcad | hence why this is proceeding as an open source effort, not something funded |
| 16:18.48 | ValarQ | brlcad: what toolkits is on the top of the list? |
| 16:18.58 | b0ef | brlcad: the new gtk offers a very powerful printing feature |
| 16:19.22 | brlcad | b0ef: that's nice, but certainly not the highest priority feature to select a toolkit based off of :) |
| 16:19.44 | brlcad | ValarQ: hmm.. there is a list, but that's on a different machine than where I"m at now |
| 16:19.47 | b0ef | brlcad: true, but just a reply to the comment about printing;) |
| 16:19.55 | ValarQ | brlcad: ok, no hurry |
| 16:20.31 | brlcad | the biggest "debate" toolkits are the ones for the main context management and any gui/widget library |
| 16:20.56 | brlcad | opengl is at least a requirement this time around, so we don't have to struggle with that one |
| 16:21.42 | clock_ | brlcad: how old have you been when you learned surfing? |
| 16:21.49 | ValarQ | sounds good, you can always use mesa if there is no hw-support |
| 16:21.51 | brlcad | clock_: just a couple years ago |
| 16:22.15 | brlcad | ValarQ: at least on some platforms ;) |
| 16:23.43 | ValarQ | brlcad: mesa works on all platforms i use :o) |
| 16:23.54 | brlcad | one methodology currently still being retained is the idea of zero external dependencies, so any toolkits being considered also have to be weighed from the perspective of their dependencies as well, how complex they are to build and configure and use, etc |
| 16:24.37 | ValarQ | i guess gtk+cairo would produce heavy dependencies... |
| 16:25.12 | brlcad | like I said.. gtk is a dependency nightmare.. they're one of the worst of all packages |
| 16:25.50 | brlcad | only a few even come close to comparing, like mozilla, x11, kde, and gnome projects :) |
| 16:26.13 | brlcad | they do have nice momentum, though |
| 16:26.45 | ValarQ | so you will keep tcl/tk then? :) |
| 16:27.14 | brlcad | another downside is that gtk doesn't (or at least didn't until recently) support native mac os x |
| 16:27.52 | ValarQ | you mean aqua? |
| 16:27.58 | brlcad | tcl is used by the lower level libraries, and will be exposed by a user front-end plugin module (mentioned yesterday iirc), but not for gui development |
| 16:28.01 | brlcad | causes too many problems |
| 16:28.22 | brlcad | yeah, an aqua style interface instead of going through X11 |
| 16:28.29 | brlcad | and yes, I know about http://developer.imendio.com/wiki/Gtk_Mac_OS_X |
| 16:28.30 | brlcad | <PROTECTED> |
| 16:28.56 | clock_ | brlcad: what do you use for your own PC? BSD? Linux? Windows? |
| 16:28.59 | clock_ | brlcad: Mac? |
| 16:29.01 | ValarQ | i hope this doesn't lead to qt... |
| 16:29.43 | brlcad | Qt is less than desireable for licensing reasons and supported platforms, though they do have a slightly cleaner API and commercial respect |
| 16:29.58 | clock_ | brlcad: but now the look of brlcad generates reminiscence of something that's army-grade |
| 16:30.16 | brlcad | clock_: I use a variety of systems, usually on a BSD, Linux, or Mac OS X system |
| 16:30.25 | clock_ | brlcad: yes but your own PC |
| 16:30.37 | clock_ | brlcad: the system you like personally most |
| 16:30.50 | brlcad | usually preferring Mac OS X simply due to the developer facilities and integration with other apps |
| 16:31.08 | brlcad | clock_: all of those are on my own pc.. i have lots of machines |
| 16:31.14 | clock_ | hehe :) |
| 16:31.16 | ValarQ | what more widgetsets is there? |
| 16:31.20 | ValarQ | motif? wings? |
| 16:31.26 | brlcad | my servers are mostly bsd |
| 16:31.44 | ValarQ | brlcad: good taste :) |
| 16:31.46 | clock_ | brlcad: do you like surf rock? |
| 16:31.57 | ValarQ | brlcad: dare i ask what windowmanager you are using? |
| 16:32.35 | brlcad | gui widget libraries is the hardest to pick from -- there's gtk, wxwidgets, cegui, agar, .. few others |
| 16:33.42 | brlcad | ValarQ: I generally prefer to live in a console, 95% of my time is spent there, so I don't generally care about the window manager |
| 16:33.57 | brlcad | emacs and a posix shell do most of what I need :) |
| 16:34.38 | brlcad | but when I did used to care, blackbox/fluxbox, pwm, and windowmaker were my cup of tea |
| 16:34.38 | ValarQ | brlcad: ok, the emacs-friendliest wm then :) |
| 16:34.58 | brlcad | you? |
| 16:35.07 | ValarQ | i mainly use IceWM |
| 16:36.03 | ValarQ | http://arda.no-ip.org/iceshot.png |
| 16:37.16 | ValarQ | i switched to emacs last year so i'm not using it for everything yet :) |
| 16:39.30 | brlcad | ahh, just starting to see the light :) |
| 16:39.53 | brlcad | and the light shall set you free |
| 16:40.38 | ValarQ | i believe i recently admited that i still use the unholy combination |
| 16:40.47 | brlcad | so you're a haskell fan too, eh? |
| 16:41.13 | ValarQ | yeah |
| 16:41.14 | brlcad | maybe you can help work up the haskell command interface when it's all ready to go ;) |
| 16:41.37 | ValarQ | that sounds neat |
| 16:42.04 | ValarQ | why use Haskell for the cli? |
| 16:42.26 | ValarQ | the use of Parsec or do you want to embed an interpretter? |
| 16:42.41 | brlcad | the entire plugin interface is where most of the thought and effort have gone into the project to date.. I so don't want to get into religion wars for the new gui |
| 16:43.17 | brlcad | actually, I'm utilizing a concept similar to what was done in the gimp with their script-fu engine |
| 16:43.22 | ValarQ | no need for wars (as long as the new interface is cli based ;) |
| 16:43.28 | brlcad | pluggable scripting layers for various languages |
| 16:45.53 | brlcad | still haven't decided whether I have to differentiate between those that lend themselves well to a command interpreter (e.g. bash, tcsh, tcl, ksh, lisp, etc) and those that don't necessarily (python, perl, ml, haskell, ruby, etc) |
| 16:46.59 | brlcad | there will necessarily be a cli, and it'll necessarily support at least tcl just due to OUR existing users -- lisp would be useful for the autocad crowd, bash/ksh/tcsh are of course familiar to the rest of the world |
| 16:47.45 | brlcad | the languages that don't lend themselves well to a cli do lend themselves well to plugins regardless, geared well for easier programming |
| 16:48.01 | ValarQ | isn't there some support for python today? |
| 16:48.10 | brlcad | ? |
| 16:48.19 | ValarQ | i believe i saw some pythonflag when i compiled brlcad |
| 16:48.44 | brlcad | there's some code in one module of the package that uses python, but that's a pretty isolated case |
| 16:48.50 | ValarQ | ok |
| 16:48.56 | brlcad | nothing in current rendering or modeling facilities uses it |
| 16:49.25 | ValarQ | how is the tcl support implemented? |
| 16:49.31 | brlcad | python could potentially attract some of the blender attention, though they don't exactly use it as a cli |
| 16:50.31 | brlcad | tcl is integrated in various ways but from their C api facilities and as the command interpreter for mged |
| 16:50.56 | ValarQ | ok, straight C api then |
| 16:51.41 | brlcad | we also kick off a full interpreter |
| 16:51.53 | brlcad | you can script tcl directly into the mged command window |
| 16:52.11 | ValarQ | thats a nice feature |
| 16:52.49 | ValarQ | will you keep tcl as main brlcad-"shell" language? |
| 16:52.54 | brlcad | tcl was chosen back in the day is it was one of the few languages that let you dynamicly add new commands to the language itself on the fly |
| 16:53.03 | brlcad | no, it won't be |
| 16:53.33 | brlcad | it'll be just another interface like all the others, and plugin-writers will be able to choose the environment they prefer |
| 16:53.42 | ValarQ | ok |
| 16:53.52 | brlcad | users will too.. so if you want the traditional tcl shell, great, if you want the more familiar bash, great, etc |
| 16:54.47 | brlcad | that's what I mean, though about distinguishing between the plugin writers and the cli itself.. i didn't want to distinguish, but it may be necessary |
| 16:55.39 | brlcad | the plugin command interface and of course the gui are going to be the two most powerful aspects of the system for extension |
| 16:56.35 | brlcad | hoping that will help activate community interest to implement the pieces people need since it's very much too much of a task to cover all the primary application domains as an open source project without major developer involvement |
| 16:57.17 | brlcad | design, drafting, machining, mechanical, engineering, analysis, electronic, industrial, architecture ... |
| 16:57.46 | brlcad | each with their own language, expectations, and requirements |
| 16:58.12 | ValarQ | with a well thought out and documented pluginsystem it might gain more interest |
| 16:58.17 | archivist | electronic? are you thinking pcb design? |
| 16:58.29 | ValarQ | just look at how many is writing emacs plugins :) |
| 16:58.44 | brlcad | or eclipse plugins for that matter, or game plugins, etc |
| 16:59.01 | ValarQ | game plugins? |
| 16:59.19 | brlcad | lots of people are willing to dabble on the concept of a plugin, way fewer are willing to "contribute directly" |
| 16:59.34 | brlcad | saw that with bzflag when plugins were implemented |
| 17:00.31 | brlcad | people that said they couldn't code were suddenly writing excellent plugins .. mods that would have been easily accepted into the main code line as a non-plugin |
| 17:01.03 | brlcad | but they have a mental block for contributing that way, perhaps a feeling of ownership, or responsibility |
| 17:02.42 | ValarQ | well, people should be able to develop plugins without sending them for distribution with the main package |
| 17:02.54 | brlcad | sure |
| 17:03.12 | clock_ | from a band called Fire Dept. |
| 17:03.18 | ValarQ | it's a bit sad thought |
| 17:03.29 | brlcad | but if the plugin is good stuff, why not distribute it with the main package? :) |
| 17:03.39 | brlcad | end users don't care |
| 17:03.49 | brlcad | they just want the features, they have something they want to get done |
| 17:03.57 | brlcad | (like that spline road task) ;) |
| 17:04.44 | ValarQ | come to think of it, i haven't send any patches to brlcad myself... |
| 17:05.55 | brlcad | :) |
| 17:06.13 | brlcad | patches always welcome, they get priority attention and are the fastest way to get commit access :) |
| 17:08.12 | CIA-9 | BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/configure.ac: gah, set LIBDS, not LIBDL |
| 17:08.13 | ValarQ | i have been thinking of an external sketch editor, but maybe it's not worth it until you settle for a gui toolkit |
| 17:08.13 | archivist | ahem splines are fun (not) |
| 17:09.29 | brlcad | it would be worth it imho.. this major plugin system with a new shiney gui isn't going to be production code for quite a while still |
| 17:10.02 | brlcad | i thought about kicking off qcad in mged as the sketch editor.. shouldn't be incredibly difficult to get working |
| 17:10.32 | brlcad | especially since both do dxf, could be a translation glue |
| 17:11.37 | *** join/#brlcad IriX64 (n=IriX64@toronto-HSE-ppp4309547.sympatico.ca) | |
| 17:11.41 | ValarQ | i have been thinking of converting another project to gtk2hs/cairo |
| 17:12.22 | ValarQ | that is if i can get good canvas functionallity with those |
| 17:12.58 | IriX64 | SHOT: cpu = 7.875 sec, elapsed = 15.919 sec |
| 17:12.58 | IriX64 | <PROTECTED> |
| 17:12.58 | IriX64 | <PROTECTED> |
| 17:12.58 | IriX64 | Additional mem=393216., #malloc=429, #free=359, #realloc=3 (70 retained) |
| 17:12.58 | IriX64 | 9917603 solid/ray intersections: 7525144 hits + 2392459 miss |
| 17:13.00 | IriX64 | pruned 75.9%: 0 model RPP, 13088535 dups skipped, 192420 solid RPP |
| 17:13.02 | IriX64 | Frame 0: 117649 pixels in 7.88 sec = 14939.56 pixels/sec |
| 17:13.04 | IriX64 | Frame 0: 1125029 rays in 7.88 sec = 142860.83 rays/sec (RTFM) |
| 17:13.06 | IriX64 | Frame 0: 1125029 rays in 7.88 sec = 142860.83 rays/CPU_sec |
| 17:13.08 | IriX64 | Frame 0: 1125029 rays in 15.92 sec = 70672.09 rays/sec (wallclock) |
| 17:13.10 | IriX64 | Raytrace complete. |
| 17:13.12 | IriX64 | crap sorry. |
| 17:13.23 | IriX64 | really am that wasnt sposed to happen. |
| 17:13.24 | brlcad | eek |
| 17:13.47 | ValarQ | IriX64: it did anyway :P |
| 17:13.56 | IriX64 | *tell me about it. |
| 17:14.15 | ValarQ | i just did... |
| 17:14.19 | IriX64 | bitchx suck my nether regions with your face :P |
| 17:31.36 | *** join/#brlcad DTRemenak (n=DTRemena@c-24-23-59-104.hsd1.ca.comcast.net) | |
| 17:34.49 | *** join/#brlcad MarioD (n=who@toronto-HSE-ppp4309547.sympatico.ca) | |
| 17:35.15 | MarioD | IriX64 what the heck are you doing still here ? :) |
| 17:35.35 | MarioD | how long does it take? |
| 17:37.25 | MarioD | how do i get my nick back when this happens? |
| 17:38.53 | IriX64 | thats better. |
| 17:39.44 | IriX64 | cleverly programmed into every compile of brlcad is a long coffee break, see you in a bit. |
| 17:40.33 | archivist | a slow box has a meal break as well |
| 18:13.22 | IriX64 | hah im having a barley sandwich :) |
| 18:13.37 | brlcad | hops and barley? |
| 18:13.55 | IriX64 | they don't mix them in lagers and ales. |
| 18:14.47 | IriX64 | cut and paste now works. thanks for putting up with me. |
| 18:15.10 | IriX64 | mged> |
| 18:15.10 | IriX64 | mged> |
| 18:15.14 | IriX64 | see |
| 18:16.06 | IriX64 | and thats *not windows mged. |
| 18:16.41 | IriX64 | altho i have that here as well. |
| 18:17.04 | IriX64 | bldg391 is complex. |
| 18:17.20 | IriX64 | mirrored floors for real? |
| 18:17.55 | IriX64 | mirrored floors are a military secret? :) |
| 18:20.31 | brlcad | no comment |
| 18:21.32 | IriX64 | ermf can't open frame buffer. |
| 18:24.56 | CIA-9 | BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/canon/Makefile.am: png-ipu needs LIBPNG |
| 18:28.31 | IriX64 | thats better, sigh i had two copies of mged running, doh...doofus. |
| 18:30.23 | IriX64 | hahah the enterprise shuttle showing me her belly, say dear do you belly dance too :) |
| 18:31.00 | ValarQ | is brlcad still a military project? |
| 18:31.14 | IriX64 | they put it into open source. |
| 18:31.22 | IriX64 | gnu licences they say. |
| 18:31.50 | IriX64 | respects to thaose guys 30 meg bz2 source archive. |
| 18:31.54 | IriX64 | those too. |
| 18:32.46 | IriX64 | im sure they contribute still. |
| 18:32.48 | ValarQ | yeah, but is there still military funded devs working on it? |
| 18:33.06 | IriX64 | that i don't know. |
| 18:33.17 | IriX64 | check cvs on sourceforge. |
| 18:33.25 | IriX64 | im not in cvs. |
| 18:34.20 | IriX64 | id paste this picture into the channel if i had a way, its gorgeous. |
| 18:35.38 | IriX64 | Model: X(-50000,50000), Y(-50000,50000), Z(-50000,50000) |
| 18:35.38 | IriX64 | View: 314.544 azimuth, -75.9309 elevation off of front view |
| 18:35.38 | IriX64 | Orientation: 0.311442, 0.94234, -0.0559178, 0.108957 |
| 18:35.38 | IriX64 | E |
| 18:36.53 | IriX64 | Model: X(-50000,50000), Y(-50000,50000), Z(-50000,50000) |
| 18:36.53 | IriX64 | View: 314.544 azimuth, -75.9309 elevation off of front view |
| 18:36.53 | IriX64 | Orientation: 0.311442, 0.94234, -0.0559178, 0.108957 |
| 18:36.53 | IriX64 | E |
| 18:37.09 | IriX64 | ah well so pastes not perfect yet. |
| 18:37.45 | IriX64 | Model: X(-50000,50000), Y(-50000,50000), Z(-50000,50000) |
| 18:37.45 | IriX64 | View: 314.544 azimuth, -75.9309 elevation off of front view |
| 18:37.45 | IriX64 | Orientation: 0.311442, 0.94234, -0.0559178, 0.108957 |
| 18:37.45 | IriX64 | E |
| 18:38.00 | IriX64 | doesnt clear the buffer darn. |
| 18:40.55 | IriX64 | the top of the shuttle appears flat (and undamaged :)) |
| 18:55.45 | IriX64 | brb |
| 19:01.49 | ValarQ | that irix user sure got a lot to paste |
| 19:07.06 | *** join/#brlcad IriX64 (n=who@toronto-HSE-ppp4309547.sympatico.ca) | |
| 19:12.01 | IriX64 | mucho better :) |
| 19:12.36 | IriX64 | say you ever hear the song Roland The Headless Thompson Gunner? |
| 19:13.32 | IriX64 | By Warren Zevon (Nightime in the switching yards albumn) |
| 19:19.16 | IriX64 | if you're permitted to answer this, just how many ppl does bldging 391 serve? |
| 19:21.30 | IriX64 | dare i post my last shot? I so love to share. |
| 19:22.37 | IriX64 | *cough* |
| 19:43.22 | brlcad | ValarQ: BRL-CAD is still used and funded (with no plans to stop anytime in the forseeable future) |
| 19:44.19 | brlcad | of course still directly and indirectly contributing too -- they have quite a vested interest -- though the project is an open source project in it's own right like any other |
| 19:48.43 | IriX64 | ValarQ the military tho i don't think hangs out here, course i could be wrong. |
| 19:49.32 | IriX64 | gotta go W2k beckons. |
| 19:52.53 | brlcad | quite an odd fellow sometimes |
| 19:54.43 | ValarQ | yeah |
| 19:59.43 | brlcad | which country? |
| 20:02.15 | ValarQ | sweden |
| 20:02.22 | ``Erik | borkborkbork |
| 20:02.39 | ValarQ | ``Erik: no, i didn't work in the kitchen :P |
| 20:02.58 | ``Erik | :D |
| 20:07.57 | brlcad | heh |
| 21:25.28 | b0ef | any plans to make the documentation available online? (html) |
| 21:31.12 | brlcad | b0ef: what documentation? most of the most up to date docs are on-line just not in html form |
| 21:32.39 | b0ef | brlcad: I'm thinking online browsable |
| 21:33.14 | brlcad | the main docs (the tutorial series) were written and finished just shortly before the open sourcing, they were printed up and nicely bound .. pdf's were the next best thing |
| 21:33.31 | brlcad | could run pdf2html i reckon ;) |
| 21:34.13 | brlcad | actually looking to convert all of the documentation into docbook format so that it's pretty much turnkey to get various output formats automatically including on-line html forms |
| 21:34.33 | b0ef | yeah, would be nice |
| 21:34.44 | brlcad | there's a guy working on that now, was all done with vol I and had moved on to vol II |
| 23:56.52 | CIA-9 | BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/ (README doc/description.txt doc/pad_file.xml.in): emphasize cross-platform open source instead of comprehensive (technically not comprehensive CAD to say the least) |
| 00:09.43 | CIA-9 | BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/ (README doc/description.txt): s/from/form/ |
| 00:43.59 | *** join/#brlcad matt_ezeki_230 (n=matt@host-84-223-139-211.cust-adsl.tiscali.it) | |
| 00:46.57 | *** join/#brlcad bjorkBSD (n=bjork@ip70-178-169-173.ks.ks.cox.net) | |
| 00:52.11 | matt_ezeki_230 | hi guys! i've a little and (i hope!) trite question for you... i created a region from several primitive shapes with command "r reg.r u pshape1.s u pshape2.s u ... pshapen.s" but when i tried to give the command "rt -W -s1024 -o file.pix" to have the bw raytrace i obtained a region coloured gray. Does anyone know why? |
| 01:52.56 | CIA-9 | BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/mged/ (attach.c ged.h): declare mged_link_vars() correctly |
| 02:09.53 | brlcad | matt_ezeki_230: it's because you haven't specified a color on your region -- the default color of regions is a dull white which generally ends up looking like gray with the default ambient lighting and default lights |
| 02:10.43 | brlcad | you can/should specify the color of the region using the mater command (material "plastic" works well enough for most purposes) or using the Combination Editor's Shader panel |
| 04:02.03 | *** join/#brlcad digitalfredy (n=digitalf@200.71.62.161) | |
| 05:10.23 | *** join/#brlcad Twingy (n=justin@c-69-250-236-111.hsd1.md.comcast.net) | |
| 06:11.55 | matt_ezeki_230 | what i'd like to obtain is the same effect of the command "rt -W" on a primitive shape, but for a region. I tried... |
| 06:12.21 | matt_ezeki_230 | 1) "r reg.r u pshape1.s u pshape2.s u ... pshapen.s" |
| 06:13.09 | matt_ezeki_230 | 2) "mater reg.r bwtexture 255 255 255 0" |
| 06:13.27 | matt_ezeki_230 | but nothing! it's still gray |
| 06:13.50 | matt_ezeki_230 | 3) "mater reg.r plastic 255 255 255 0" |
| 06:14.03 | matt_ezeki_230 | but it's still gray! |
| 06:16.29 | matt_ezeki_230 | is it possibile? maybe i'm wrong.. |
| 06:21.37 | *** join/#brlcad clock_ (i=clock@84-72-89-191.dclient.hispeed.ch) | |
| 06:45.15 | matt_ezeki_230 | sorry... is it obvious that the diagram shows a gray region because i give the command |
| 06:45.29 | matt_ezeki_230 | "rt -W -s1024 -o file.pix" |
| 06:46.43 | matt_ezeki_230 | to raytrace. Certainly, when i'll do i rt without option -W it will go all ok! |
| 06:47.02 | matt_ezeki_230 | but... another question... |
| 06:48.48 | matt_ezeki_230 | the option -W permit to raytrace with a white background SHOWING the BLACK BORDERS of primitive shapes |
| 06:48.57 | matt_ezeki_230 | do you remember this? |
| 06:50.35 | matt_ezeki_230 | ok... how can i get the same effect for a region? if i assign to it material properties and raytrace in classical way the borders aren't showed |
| 06:51.25 | matt_ezeki_230 | and if i raytrace with option -W the diagram is gray.... |
| 07:02.37 | matt_ezeki_230 | ok it's ok! the command was not "rt -W ...." but "rtedge -W ..." |
| 08:07.38 | *** join/#brlcad clock_ (n=clock@zux221-122-143.adsl.green.ch) | |
| 08:10.41 | clock_ | brlcad: I have a mental block on surfing: http://www.archive.org/download/leda009/18.mental.mp3 |
| 08:15.57 | clock_ | Is it OK to compile brlcad with -O3 -fomit-frame-pointer -march=pentium-3 or is it gonna wipe out on some gcc bug? |
| 13:52.48 | brlcad | i'd suggest just --enable-optimized --with-cflags="-march=pentium-3" instead |
| 13:54.00 | clock_ | brlcad: did you have to learn duck diving and strenghten your muscles for paddling? |
| 13:56.38 | brlcad | not really |
| 13:57.05 | brlcad | it was exhausting, but not horribly so |
| 13:57.36 | clock_ | brlcad: muscle mass or fat mass? |
| 13:57.51 | brlcad | muscle mostly |
| 13:58.01 | clock_ | and you call that a *problem*? |
| 13:58.06 | brlcad | just not an efficient swimmer |
| 13:58.12 | brlcad | sure, it can be a problem |
| 13:58.23 | clock_ | brlcad: where did you get this? From genetics? Steroids? Or, god save us, fitness room? |
| 13:58.44 | brlcad | powerlifting, I generally work out a lot |
| 13:58.54 | brlcad | not genetics or steroids |
| 13:59.14 | clock_ | brlcad: cool, you just added a drop into the cup of determination for my sport attempts :) |
| 14:00.14 | clock_ | brlcad: how still? Lifting doesn't increase your length |
| 14:00.34 | clock_ | brlcad: is it better to be short or long on a surfboard>? |
| 14:01.44 | clock_ | brlcad: powerlifting == to lift as much as possible? |
| 14:08.15 | brlcad | yes, heavy lifting for bulk |
| 14:09.10 | brlcad | for riding the surfboard, it's just balance .. might have an advantage being shorter, but for paddling out and catching the wave.. long arms definitely help |
| 14:51.01 | CIA-9 | BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/vas4/vas_io.c: clean up the logic on termio.h vs sgtty.h .. can't use both together |
| 19:19.38 | *** join/#brlcad clock_ (i=clock@84-72-62-62.dclient.hispeed.ch) | |
| 19:50.08 | ValarQ | *chirp* |
| 20:06.37 | brlcad | *moo* |
| 20:12.01 | clock_ | brlcad: did you reincarnate into a cow? So reincarnation is actually true? |
| 20:12.42 | DTRemenak | *baaah* |
| 21:18.49 | *** join/#brlcad DTRemenak (n=DTRemena@c-24-23-59-104.hsd1.ca.comcast.net) | |
| 21:22.18 | *** join/#brlcad IriX64 (n=who@toronto-HSE-ppp4309547.sympatico.ca) | |
| 21:26.22 | IriX64 | Jean-Luc Picard to his sewing machine repairman, " Make it sew " <----thats not mine btw. :) |
| 21:29.27 | IriX64 | can the overlap tool be used to eliminate them as well as find them? |
| 21:31.46 | IriX64 | never mind, it can :) |
| 21:33.34 | IriX64 | it's just that i'm not fluent in brlcadese. :) |
| 22:01.55 | brlcad | which "overlap tool"? |
| 22:35.12 | IriX64 | :) the one im playing with. |
| 23:59.34 | bjorkBSD | Unable to find 'lib/tcl8.4' within the BRL-CAD software installation. |
| 23:59.34 | bjorkBSD | This copy of BRL-CAD may not be properly installed. |
| 23:59.41 | bjorkBSD | is that a fatal error? |
| 23:59.48 | IriX64 | can be. |
| 00:00.00 | brlcad | for mged it normally will be |
| 00:00.17 | brlcad | sound like you tried to link against a system tcl perhaps? |
| 00:00.51 | brlcad | all else fails, make sure --enable-almost-everything works |
| 00:01.17 | brlcad | that will build isolated so it doesn't try to use any system libraries |
| 00:02.16 | IriX64 | back in the compile saddle again :) |
| 00:02.18 | bjorkBSD | oh i pkg_add'ed brlcad :-S |
| 00:02.31 | bjorkBSD | should i have made it from ports? |
| 00:03.42 | brlcad | bjorkBSD: hrmph |
| 00:03.50 | brlcad | no, that should have just worked |
| 00:03.59 | bjorkBSD | hmm. |
| 00:04.05 | bjorkBSD | i can remake it. |
| 00:04.06 | brlcad | sounds like a bug for the package maintainer.. |
| 00:04.19 | IriX64 | depends how you install it tho :) (ducking and running) |
| 00:05.44 | IriX64 | well an hour from now we can compare notes bjorkBSD. |
| 00:06.49 | bjorkBSD | hehehhe |
| 00:07.23 | brlcad | yeeesh, putting together a brl-cad quick reference card is going to be harder than it was for mged.. |
| 00:07.38 | bjorkBSD | brlcad, are you the only one working on it? |
| 00:07.55 | brlcad | the quick reference card? yeah, just me |
| 00:09.10 | brlcad | it's a matter of condensign about 400 commands onto two simple sheets of paper |
| 00:09.28 | bjorkBSD | hmm. |
| 00:09.33 | brlcad | including diagrams and other writeups to make it look elegant and be informative |
| 00:09.48 | bjorkBSD | i see i see. |
| 00:10.01 | brlcad | i think i'm just going to have to widdle down the command list to a subset of maybe a third |
| 00:10.44 | brlcad | or get incredibly creative with diagrams to pack all the command info into less space |
| 00:11.36 | bjorkBSD | sounds like an interesting challenge, if you ask me. |
| 00:11.37 | brlcad | the mged one didn't take me that long at all, maybe a solid weeks worth of time |
| 00:11.52 | bjorkBSD | i've started looking at the docs as part of the interface. |
| 00:12.02 | brlcad | and i'm already finding the mged one utterly useful |
| 00:12.02 | bjorkBSD | it helps you interact more efficiently with the system. |
| 00:12.26 | bjorkBSD | so maybe the HCI factors might be applied to the docs (?). speculating. |
| 00:12.55 | brlcad | they can and should, it's just usually good "good design and clean layout" etc |
| 00:13.04 | brlcad | s/good "/called/ |
| 00:13.56 | bjorkBSD | aha! some one agrees! |
| 00:13.59 | brlcad | emphasizing the most important bits of data in a sea of information, conveying the data in an intelligent and compact manner |
| 00:16.33 | brlcad | it took me over an hour, for example to write a single sentance that succintly explained brl-cad's 2d and 3d coordinate system conventions, choosing just the right words in the right order to best utilize the space constraint |
| 00:17.04 | bjorkBSD | hmmm. |
| 00:17.16 | brlcad | seriously feeling cramped for space for this overall brl-cad quick reference sheet though |
| 00:17.17 | bjorkBSD | sounds like a great way of RTFM... |
| 00:17.30 | bjorkBSD | sounds like a newbie exercise! |
| 00:19.10 | bjorkBSD | there! IriX64 it's your job :)) |
| 00:19.24 | bjorkBSD | i'd do it, but i don't even have brlcad anymore :( (lies) |
| 00:19.42 | IriX64 | gotta know the commands and language before you can write it up bjorkBSD. |
| 00:20.00 | brlcad | it's incredibly rare for a dev to have enough design, language, layout, publication experience to put this kind of stuff together |
| 00:20.19 | IriX64 | delegate it :) |
| 00:20.19 | brlcad | IriX64: even I don't know all the commands |
| 00:20.20 | fenn | oh brlcad you're so awesome |
| 00:20.28 | bjorkBSD | but it's writing. the process of writing it *will* teach all those things, IriX64 |
| 00:20.56 | brlcad | fenn: heh |
| 00:20.56 | IriX64 | not unless you try every command while you write it up. |
| 00:21.08 | IriX64 | fenn is that a dig ;) |
| 00:21.35 | brlcad | fenn: that was just a statement in general and didn't really include myself in it .. it takes me way too long |
| 00:22.23 | brlcad | i mean, you leave untrained devs alone with a design and you end up with stuff like mged :) |
| 00:22.39 | IriX64 | or better :) |
| 00:22.42 | fenn | if documentation is hard to write it usually means the interface is bad |
| 00:23.17 | IriX64 | whats so hard about click edit click gemoetry browser and your in business? |
| 00:23.21 | brlcad | heh, mged's docs weren't hard to write.. and I wouldn't say the interface is good :P |
| 00:24.55 | brlcad | this quick reference card is more like documenting everything you can do in bash briefly in just a page or two including all the standard posix commands |
| 00:25.13 | IriX64 | eeek :{ |
| 00:25.35 | IriX64 | why you? |
| 00:25.42 | brlcad | sure writing the 20 page manpage is easy, or even a book on the shell .. but condensing the info I think is non-trivial |
| 00:26.02 | IriX64 | you must live wrong. :) |
| 00:26.07 | brlcad | IriX64: who else is going to do it? |
| 00:26.12 | IriX64 | to be assigned such. |
| 00:26.34 | brlcad | i don't assign anything |
| 00:26.45 | brlcad | i think the project needs it |
| 00:26.57 | IriX64 | you saying you seriuosly know ever command? |
| 00:27.06 | brlcad | do an ls on /usr/brlcad/bin and tell me what anything other than rt and mged does? |
| 00:27.09 | bjorkBSD | he said he didn't. |
| 00:27.32 | brlcad | I know most of them, but certainly not all of them |
| 00:27.56 | brlcad | at least not without taking a peek at their source for a reminder |
| 00:28.07 | IriX64 | as i said i'm a newbie but willing to learn. |
| 00:29.08 | brlcad | a lot of it is easily categorized fortunately.. might come up with some sort of diagram that's better than listing them all out |
| 00:29.40 | brlcad | example, all the image reader tools that display to a framebuffer: bw-fb cat-fb cell-fb cmap-fb gif-fb gif2fb orle-fb pix-fb pixflip-fb pl-fb png-fb polar-fb pp-fb rle-fb spm-fb |
| 00:30.35 | IriX64 | better explain just what a framebuffer is to brlcad. |
| 00:30.52 | brlcad | yep, that's going in too |
| 00:31.11 | IriX64 | put it all in a gui :) |
| 00:31.26 | bjorkBSD | IriX64 good good, you're lending a hand? :D |
| 00:31.33 | IriX64 | heh |
| 00:31.38 | brlcad | fwiw.. "brlcad" usually refers to me, "brl-cad" would be to the project in casual parlance |
| 00:32.03 | brlcad | no need, just confusing me :) |
| 00:32.07 | fenn | i thought your nick was brlcad so whenever something was on-topic it'd beep at you |
| 00:32.18 | IriX64 | bjorkBSD lets collaborate we'll do the gui. |
| 00:32.49 | IriX64 | for instance tools-->raytrace control panel |
| 00:32.54 | brlcad | fenn: nah, I have keyword highlighting turned on for that |
| 00:33.29 | IriX64 | simply have it pass paramters or defaulkts to rt. |
| 00:33.37 | IriX64 | err defaults. |
| 00:33.42 | brlcad | and it's only because my primary dev machine is packed up for a move that I'm mostly chatting as brlcad, often switch names around :) |
| 00:35.49 | bjorkBSD | gui? i can't code for shit IriX64 |
| 00:36.09 | bjorkBSD | sure i can read c and what not. but i've been too <insert reasons here> to code anything. |
| 00:36.17 | brlcad | the official project name is "BRL-CAD" case and dash included. "brl-cad" is usually used for casual talk, "brlcad" only for file and directory names where the dash can be unconventional, annoying, unsupported, etc |
| 00:36.49 | fenn | oo there is brl-cad.org |
| 00:36.51 | brlcad | certainly not a big deal, though |
| 00:37.37 | brlcad | yeah, http://www.BRL-CAD.org is the shiznits |
| 00:37.50 | brlcad | *cough* |
| 00:38.04 | brlcad | another design suckage that someone will hopefully work on |
| 00:39.43 | fenn | is the brl-cad API documented anywhere? |
| 00:40.11 | fenn | i mean besides doxygen |
| 00:40.31 | brlcad | the code is the prime source, but yeah, there is more |
| 00:40.31 | IriX64 | you guys disabled doxygen in 7.6.? |
| 00:41.15 | fenn | gotta love those automatically generated graphviz diagrams |
| 00:41.22 | brlcad | there have been several research papers for the core libraries, as well as presentations at conferences (at least one is available on the website) |
| 00:44.52 | IriX64 | optical shader library? |
| 00:46.29 | brlcad | hmm? |
| 00:46.35 | brlcad | liboptical |
| 00:47.31 | IriX64 | multi-pane on lets tango. |
| 00:47.33 | brlcad | that's where the light transport simulation of the ray-tracer is managed, for generating optical images |
| 00:47.55 | IriX64 | seems to be automatic in raytrace control panel. |
| 00:47.57 | brlcad | (as opposed to infrared, xray, or some other multispectral tracing, or even a different algorithm like path tracing) |
| 00:48.14 | IriX64 | you support all those? |
| 00:48.24 | brlcad | the raytrace control panel kicks off 'rt', which is the optical ray tracer (that uses liboptical) |
| 00:48.42 | brlcad | yes, they're all supported to various decrees |
| 00:49.04 | IriX64 | right that i know but the database background overrides raytrace control panel, should be the other way around no? |
| 00:50.26 | brlcad | database background? |
| 00:50.26 | IriX64 | and the framebuffer X-lay selection and or object selection don't seem to stick across invocations. |
| 00:50.37 | IriX64 | color scheme. |
| 00:51.04 | brlcad | still not following you |
| 00:51.13 | IriX64 | thats all right. |
| 00:51.16 | IriX64 | :) |
| 00:51.22 | brlcad | different terminology perhaps :) |
| 00:51.37 | IriX64 | im a coder not a user. more's the pity. |
| 00:51.41 | brlcad | the raytracer ALSO supports different lighting models, that's a different concept |
| 00:52.09 | brlcad | different shaders too |
| 00:52.29 | IriX64 | if you choose a background color in the control panel, the background is drawn in that color as the solid model is rendered on the screen. |
| 00:52.33 | brlcad | so it can be using the optics library and implement a completely non-optical shader algorithm (like cell shading, or flat shading) |
| 00:52.49 | IriX64 | thats all math to me :) |
| 00:53.22 | brlcad | ahh, that's just that.. a background color is drawn when the model is missed.. nothing more or less -- doesn't even really involve the lighting model or shaders or spectral mode |
| 00:53.38 | IriX64 | instead of a dark background you can choose your own color. |
| 00:54.17 | brlcad | yep, but it's just a visualization/data hack |
| 00:54.35 | IriX64 | ahh ok so its not even in the database is that right? |
| 00:54.41 | brlcad | used for simulating an alpha channel from a time before they existed |
| 00:54.52 | bjorkBSD | brlcad, and all this info's in the code? |
| 00:54.52 | brlcad | it's not in the geometry database |
| 00:55.13 | IriX64 | on that note i go see a man about a recurring leak, bbiab :) |
| 00:55.19 | brlcad | bjorkBSD: yes, some of what I just said is even in manpages |
| 00:55.32 | bjorkBSD | hmm i see. |
| 00:55.44 | brlcad | like man brlcad, man libfb, man librt |
| 00:56.00 | brlcad | fenn: i suppose those would quality as api documentation |
| 00:56.28 | brlcad | though I haven't reviewed them in quite some time to update them with recent modifications |
| 01:14.36 | IriX64 | wheres the plot from a file tool? |
| 01:15.01 | IriX64 | err well i can send it to a plot file but how do i plot it? |
| 01:15.38 | IriX64 | bjorkBSD? |
| 01:16.03 | IriX64 | fenn? |
| 01:19.07 | bjorkBSD | no. |
| 01:19.17 | bjorkBSD | alright. yes. :D |
| 01:21.34 | *** join/#brlcad fenn (n=fenn@adsl-70-239-91-104.dsl.bltnin.sbcglobal.net) | |
| 01:24.09 | IriX64 | look bjorkBSD comedians usually get paid :) |
| 01:26.44 | bjorkBSD | heheheh |
| 01:34.17 | fenn | sourceforge has such horrible service lately |
| 01:45.39 | brlcad | fenn: yet still free, gift horse and all |
| 01:45.39 | IriX64 | fanfare.... lets eat. |
| 01:45.57 | IriX64 | what the pizza :P |
| 01:46.26 | brlcad | when you say plot file, what do you mean? |
| 01:46.30 | fenn | there are lots of free websites that dont consistently neglect service interruptions.. |
| 01:46.34 | brlcad | brl-cad deals with .pl unix-style plot files |
| 01:47.13 | bjorkBSD | brlcad, is there a GUI interface you like? |
| 01:47.24 | bjorkBSD | for drawing programs and whatnot. |
| 01:47.33 | brlcad | bjorkBSD: you mean in general from an hci perspective or cad-specific? |
| 01:48.09 | IriX64 | mine says cray.plot. |
| 01:48.55 | brlcad | IriX64: how did you create cray.plot? |
| 01:49.13 | IriX64 | jeez he's hauling out the cat-o-nine, err wait, wrong service :) |
| 01:49.21 | IriX64 | render view |
| 01:49.29 | brlcad | ah |
| 01:49.50 | IriX64 | there's a postscript option too as well as rt. |
| 01:50.30 | brlcad | there's a whole slew of pl-* tools for manipulating plot files.. if you saved a 3D plot file, you can overlay that into mged again for visualization |
| 01:50.51 | brlcad | if you just want a quick view, something like pl-fb -F/dev/Xl |
| 01:51.07 | IriX64 | thankyou... just a sec. |
| 01:52.04 | IriX64 | its a standalone command :( |
| 01:53.51 | IriX64 | smoke break. :) |
| 02:06.30 | bjorkBSD | i meant cad specific. |
| 02:06.43 | bjorkBSD | sorry, i was afIRC |
| 02:09.08 | fenn | qcad has a decent UI philosopy |
| 02:09.09 | brlcad | bjorkBSD: i don't think I'd consider any of them spectacular though many of them have some really nice isolated features |
| 02:09.31 | bjorkBSD | ah okay. |
| 02:09.36 | brlcad | unigraphics goes to pretty extensive lengths to get rid of modalities for example, and does an okay job at it |
| 02:09.39 | bjorkBSD | what'll a good one look like? |
| 02:10.38 | fenn | a good one will not force you to switch back and forth between keyboard and mouse |
| 02:11.27 | bjorkBSD | hmmm. |
| 02:11.44 | bjorkBSD | so one that's exclusively keyboarded or moused? |
| 02:12.06 | bjorkBSD | kb/mouse mutual exclusivity is a myth i say. |
| 02:12.09 | brlcad | no, primarily gui/mouse driven |
| 02:12.21 | bjorkBSD | they're meant to be complementary. |
| 02:12.39 | fenn | i didnt say you couldnt use both at the same time |
| 02:12.43 | bjorkBSD | i just don't buy the argument that switching hands from keyboard to mouse is such a drain on time. |
| 02:12.52 | fenn | blender does a nice job of using both |
| 02:13.00 | bjorkBSD | cool. |
| 02:13.05 | bjorkBSD | i haven't looked at blender yet. |
| 02:14.37 | bjorkBSD | mouseless keyboard/keyboardless mouse :) |
| 02:15.35 | bjorkBSD | given that the mouse has been around since the early '60s ... it's a pity it's still so misunderstood. |
| 02:16.08 | fenn | poor poor mouse, nobody understands him |
| 02:17.48 | bjorkBSD | fenn how do you think the mouse should be used? |
| 02:17.56 | bjorkBSD | exclusively as a paper weight? |
| 02:18.09 | bjorkBSD | ... in a paperless world, no less :) |
| 02:18.39 | fenn | i think the mouse is more than a paperlessweight] |
| 02:18.52 | bjorkBSD | heheh. |
| 02:18.56 | bjorkBSD | an ornament then. |
| 02:19.03 | bjorkBSD | the more buttons, the more 3l33t :D |
| 02:19.17 | bjorkBSD | and if it's just one button, you're a mac user and 3l33t regardless :P |
| 02:19.18 | bjorkBSD | j/k |
| 02:19.31 | fenn | navigating in 3d is a lot easier with a mouse |
| 02:19.48 | fenn | so is selecting a particular object |
| 02:20.08 | fenn | describing relationships between objects is not so easy |
| 02:21.14 | bjorkBSD | with a mouse? |
| 02:21.28 | fenn | although i have seen some cool ideas for a "directed graph" GUI using mostly mouse input |
| 02:22.54 | bjorkBSD | hmm. |
| 02:23.49 | bjorkBSD | i dunno, but i think a lot of the matters regarding interface design is too firmly focused on making it easier for newbies to get going. |
| 02:24.21 | bjorkBSD | newbies like me, for instance :D |
| 02:24.43 | bjorkBSD | one simply gets used to the interface after a while i think... |
| 02:24.54 | fenn | interfaces should be self-documenting or you spend too much time reading documentation instead of playing around |
| 02:25.19 | bjorkBSD | hmm. |
| 02:25.34 | fenn | there's no reason i should have to look up what an rpp is |
| 02:25.38 | bjorkBSD | playing around shouldn't be hindered, that's true. |
| 02:25.45 | bjorkBSD | rpp? wtf is that? |
| 02:25.48 | fenn | lol |
| 02:26.25 | bjorkBSD | return polyplenum? |
| 02:26.26 | bjorkBSD | what? |
| 02:26.43 | fenn | regular perpendicular poly-something |
| 02:26.45 | fenn | its a cube |
| 02:27.00 | bjorkBSD | rpp? |
| 02:27.02 | bjorkBSD | how does that stand for cube? |
| 02:27.12 | fenn | exactly |
| 02:27.28 | fenn | rectangular paralellepiped, sorry |
| 02:27.35 | bjorkBSD | that makes sense. |
| 02:27.55 | bjorkBSD | there's terminology associated with 3D that a user should be familiar with, i s'pose. |
| 02:28.01 | bjorkBSD | so that's not a big deal at all. |
| 02:28.22 | bjorkBSD | a nice glossary (and a wizard? heaven forbid! and hell too.) should help one along nicely :D |
| 02:28.23 | fenn | i've never heard the term paralellepiped before brlcad |
| 02:28.30 | bjorkBSD | i have. |
| 02:28.38 | fenn | see i'm even spelling it wrong |
| 02:31.30 | brlcad | it's the mathematical term for better or worse |
| 02:32.12 | fenn | anyway my point was that the interface isnt self documenting |
| 02:32.35 | brlcad | mged was never implemented to be user-friendly, self documenting, teaching or anything of the sort -- it was implemented with a very specific purpose in hand for a very specific environment |
| 02:33.10 | bjorkBSD | fenn, c'mon. |
| 02:33.15 | brlcad | for which it serves that purpose rather well with experts that can model things in it faster than the best large-scale cad systems |
| 02:33.30 | bjorkBSD | must the interface be a solid geometry tutorial? |
| 02:33.51 | bjorkBSD | i think with a basic understanding of the concepts behind it (SG), the interface can't be *that* obscure. |
| 02:34.11 | fenn | bjorkBSD: a simple picture of an rpp would suffice |
| 02:34.34 | IriX64 | solid geometry? |
| 02:34.35 | bjorkBSD | that's true. |
| 02:34.37 | bjorkBSD | yes IriX64 |
| 02:34.51 | IriX64 | thought it was a modeling system. |
| 02:34.52 | brlcad | it's hard to justify spending tax payer dollars on features that make no sense for that environment (why write a tutorial when one of the core developers can give you personal attention on demand in considerably less time) |
| 02:35.16 | bjorkBSD | That portion of geometry dealing with solids, as opposed to plane geometry. Solid geometry is concerned with polyhedra, spheres, three-dimensional solids, lines in three-space, planes, and so on. |
| 02:35.26 | bjorkBSD | from wolfram ^ |
| 02:35.57 | brlcad | IriX64: it is a "system", hence all the command line tools -- meant to be used together, can pipe inputs/outputs ala cat, grep, sed, awk, etc |
| 02:36.10 | IriX64 | my definition is simply draw it in 3d and fill it in to make it solid, wheres the *solid geometry come in? |
| 02:36.14 | bjorkBSD | no one expects a text editor to be self-writing. one assumes the person using the text editor knows how to read and write. |
| 02:36.19 | fenn | brlcad: i'm not complaining at all, bjorkBSD was asking what should be part of a "good" interface |
| 02:37.13 | IriX64 | 56^7=an ellipse, thats solid geometry if you apply it to 3 dimensions. |
| 02:37.14 | bjorkBSD | and basic solid geometry - correct me if i'm wrong here - with boolean logic is the vocabulary of brl-cad. |
| 02:37.26 | brlcad | glad to hear it, though it is a common gripe and misconception of the project either way not having been open source for very long |
| 02:38.29 | IriX64 | err 5.6 *cough* |
| 02:38.50 | bjorkBSD | brlcad, are my assumptions wrong? |
| 02:39.25 | brlcad | bjorkBSD: not sure, what exactly is the assumption? something about the vocabulary? |
| 02:39.37 | bjorkBSD | heheh |
| 02:39.44 | bjorkBSD | solid geometry/boolean algebra. |
| 02:39.45 | brlcad | the failing is that mged exposes the low-level code representation/names of object types |
| 02:39.48 | bjorkBSD | oops. boolean logic. |
| 02:39.52 | brlcad | rpp, arb8, sph, etc |
| 02:39.57 | bjorkBSD | hmm okay . |
| 02:40.01 | brlcad | you mean CSG? |
| 02:40.05 | bjorkBSD | yeah |
| 02:40.12 | fenn | brlcad: that's not necessarily a failing, as it makes it easier for potential developers to understand what is going on underneath |
| 02:40.19 | brlcad | union, difference, intersection's pretty industry standard operations |
| 02:40.46 | fenn | or script writers |
| 02:40.59 | brlcad | fenn: true, though it goes both ways -- requires users to learn a lot more implementation detail than is really necessary for their task |
| 02:42.13 | bjorkBSD | hmm. |
| 02:44.38 | bjorkBSD | damn, i wish i could do something about the interface :D |
| 02:46.46 | bjorkBSD | what does it take, brlcad ? |
| 02:47.49 | fenn | learn a programming language, a GUI toolkit, and the BRL-CAD API and you're all set |
| 02:48.11 | brlcad | skip to it! :) |
| 02:48.26 | bjorkBSD | hehehhe. |
| 02:48.32 | bjorkBSD | i'll get right on it. |
| 02:48.35 | bjorkBSD | C you said? |
| 02:48.49 | brlcad | hell, if you did the first two, I'd cater custom attention on the third |
| 02:49.05 | fenn | i was thinking about a python UI with pygtk perhaps |
| 02:49.26 | bjorkBSD | python? |
| 02:49.31 | bjorkBSD | the tyranny of choice. |
| 02:49.33 | fenn | people seem quite picky about toolkits for some reason |
| 02:49.41 | bjorkBSD | how'bout a web interface? those are oh so popular :D |
| 02:50.06 | brlcad | everyone seems to have religion when it comes to interface |
| 02:50.44 | bjorkBSD | my belief (and i'm prepared to prove this with a bat) is that the docs MUST be read :D |
| 02:51.01 | bjorkBSD | but please don't throw it in my face as i have no intention of reading 'em myself :D |
| 02:51.17 | fenn | that's nice |
| 02:51.45 | bjorkBSD | <PROTECTED> |
| 02:52.53 | fenn | on the other hand i'm learning lisp right now and apparently it's a well known language in the cad field |
| 02:53.04 | bjorkBSD | through autocad, yeah. |
| 02:54.05 | bjorkBSD | CL can be very VERY unintuitive. |
| 02:54.08 | brlcad | bjorkBSD: another league of experience to be learned from games -- there are some incredibly complex games out there, and rare a gamer that reads paper before ripping the disc out, installing, and playing |
| 02:54.26 | bjorkBSD | brlcad, but the interface for games is fairly well known. |
| 02:54.32 | fenn | hardly |
| 02:54.40 | bjorkBSD | left right forwards backwards. and oh where's the shoot button? there! |
| 02:54.42 | bjorkBSD | blam blam! :D |
| 02:55.40 | bjorkBSD | but i see what you're saying. |
| 02:55.43 | fenn | i guess it depends which games you play |
| 02:55.57 | bjorkBSD | the shoot-em-ups are more or less the same. |
| 02:56.00 | bjorkBSD | the driving games too. |
| 02:56.09 | bjorkBSD | but a lot of people look up cheat codes. they read and memorize them. |
| 02:56.35 | brlcad | don't necessarily mean fps games |
| 02:57.06 | fenn | there are some horrendously complex mmorpg's these days |
| 02:57.49 | bjorkBSD | hmmm. |
| 02:57.55 | fenn | brlcad: do you have any preferences about GUI implementation? |
| 02:58.17 | brlcad | carefully? :) |
| 03:00.53 | IriX64 | the one that allows "push the button and make it happen" |
| 03:01.35 | IriX64 | ls=senirity list prints etc. |
| 03:01.41 | IriX64 | err seniority |
| 03:01.50 | brlcad | fenn: mostly relating to efficiency taking precedence over preference or expectation |
| 03:02.22 | brlcad | e.g. modalities in general bad, quasi-modes in general good |
| 03:02.37 | fenn | could you explain what you mean by modality? |
| 03:02.59 | IriX64 | doesnt go away when u press the mouse. |
| 03:03.01 | bjorkBSD | eg: vi's modes, brlcad? |
| 03:03.45 | IriX64 | system modal = nightmare. |
| 03:03.59 | fenn | would you consider qcad's switching to the selection mode toolbar when you need to pick a point == a modality? |
| 03:05.03 | IriX64 | fenn... qcad=? |
| 03:05.11 | fenn | a 2d drafting program |
| 03:05.17 | IriX64 | ty |
| 03:05.17 | bjorkBSD | what about xfig's interface? |
| 03:05.59 | brlcad | fenn: modalities in general change the behavior of a users interaction devices (e.g. a mouse) without direct feedback or on-going active request of that change |
| 03:06.40 | brlcad | vi is a pretty extreme example where modalities done through and through can be efficient though making for a steep and opaque interface |
| 03:07.10 | fenn | i've never learned how to use vi |
| 03:07.17 | bjorkBSD | oh it's awesome! |
| 03:07.19 | fenn | :q! |
| 03:07.23 | bjorkBSD | tsk tsk :P |
| 03:07.38 | brlcad | fenn: a selection mode toolbar isn't a modality in the classical sense since you are given active visual feedback through a change in your cursor device |
| 03:07.39 | bjorkBSD | it's really neat. and ed is neater. |
| 03:08.05 | IriX64 | so is edlin |
| 03:08.08 | IriX64 | :) |
| 03:08.21 | IriX64 | +e |
| 03:08.29 | brlcad | the main downside of modalities isn't the mode itself but the potential and frequency of mode errors when you attempt operations outside that mode that could otherwise be expected |
| 03:09.53 | bjorkBSD | edlin? it's a poor copy of ed! |
| 03:10.05 | bjorkBSD | that's where the beep comes in. |
| 03:10.08 | IriX64 | Mr Ed? |
| 03:10.18 | bjorkBSD | or in ed's case, the almighty '?' |
| 03:10.24 | brlcad | example modality error might be something like being in insert mode in vi, and attempting to delete a character while inserting by hitting the backspace key |
| 03:10.46 | IriX64 | have you never seen mred? |
| 03:10.55 | IriX64 | os/2 programmers editor. |
| 03:11.25 | bjorkBSD | is it like ed? |
| 03:11.53 | IriX64 | its beautiful, a graphical programmers editor doing just about anything you want. |
| 03:12.06 | IriX64 | too bad he never ported it to windows. |
| 03:12.11 | brlcad | the user must consciously change their locus of attention away from their desired task/operation (modifying some text in an editor) and consider the mode they are in while performing operations, with some modes being worse than others especially when you stop talking about editors and move towards gui modes |
| 03:13.20 | IriX64 | if your curious check http://hobbes.nmsu.edu |
| 03:14.00 | brlcad | if you're really interested, there are very compelling examples and discussion in "The Humane Interface" by Jef Raskin. good real world examples, academic research, and mathematical foundations of interface efficiency explained |
| 03:14.15 | fenn | thanks for the reference |
| 03:14.16 | brlcad | among a couple other books that are reference in raskin's book |
| 03:14.17 | bjorkBSD | i've got the humane interface. |
| 03:14.25 | brlcad | it's a quick read |
| 03:14.38 | bjorkBSD | brlcad, have you ever used plan9? |
| 03:14.50 | fenn | from OUTER SPACE |
| 03:14.53 | brlcad | no, but i'm interested |
| 03:15.39 | bjorkBSD | the main text editor on there's pretty cool. |
| 03:15.44 | brlcad | raskin's ideas on a zoomable interface are some of the most interesting (and radical) |
| 03:15.46 | bjorkBSD | it's called acme. |
| 03:16.46 | fenn | i like using the scroll wheel for zooming |
| 03:17.27 | bjorkBSD | i like the scroll wheel. |
| 03:17.31 | bjorkBSD | pretty damned cool toy. |
| 03:17.45 | fenn | there is definitely something to be said for auto-zoom to a particular object |
| 03:17.47 | bjorkBSD | in rio, i use it for switching from screen to screen. |
| 03:18.08 | fenn | (in addition to manual scrolling) |
| 03:21.52 | bjorkBSD | hmmm. |
| 03:21.54 | fenn | ah nice they actually have that book at my library |
| 03:22.08 | bjorkBSD | hooray! the damned thing works now. |
| 03:22.22 | bjorkBSD | there must be something wrong with pkg_add indeed. |
| 03:22.36 | IriX64 | compilation time? |
| 03:22.59 | IriX64 | don't tell ``Erik i asked ;) |
| 03:24.47 | bjorkBSD | i have no idea. |
| 03:24.51 | bjorkBSD | i was multitasking :D |
| 03:25.04 | bjorkBSD | see, i use this new fangled unix thing... |
| 03:25.06 | IriX64 | *read the summary. |
| 03:25.42 | IriX64 | nfix eh :P |
| 03:25.56 | bjorkBSD | ah it'd scrolled off. |
| 03:25.59 | bjorkBSD | but here you go. |
| 03:26.03 | bjorkBSD | Elapsed installation time: 4 minutes, 24 seconds |
| 03:26.03 | bjorkBSD | Elapsed time since configuration: 2 hours, 7 minutes, 40 seconds |
| 03:26.24 | IriX64 | urf a 286 :) |
| 03:27.01 | IriX64 | i'm on my second run. |
| 03:27.29 | bjorkBSD | second run of what? |
| 03:27.32 | IriX64 | now go to modes->multi-pane and tell me what you see. |
| 03:28.00 | IriX64 | compilation of course. |
| 03:28.16 | bjorkBSD | second run? is this a sport for you? :)) |
| 03:28.31 | IriX64 | whats 18.2? |
| 03:28.32 | bjorkBSD | multipanes. |
| 03:28.39 | bjorkBSD | 4 |
| 03:28.55 | IriX64 | it let you do that without loading a database? |
| 03:29.05 | IriX64 | urrrfffff |
| 03:29.17 | IriX64 | thats a good bug ill leave it in. |
| 03:30.40 | IriX64 | + <------ use your imagination as to what that represents. |
| 03:30.54 | IriX64 | + = multipane |
| 03:31.08 | IriX64 | ur,lr.ul,ll |
| 03:31.36 | IriX64 | .=, |
| 03:32.37 | bjorkBSD | what on earth? |
| 03:32.47 | bjorkBSD | which database? |
| 03:32.50 | bjorkBSD | it just worked |
| 03:33.06 | IriX64 | load havoc.g |
| 03:33.55 | IriX64 | brlcad: do i have a bug i can't find or is there something wrong when trying to do an e on terra contents? |
| 03:34.05 | IriX64 | terra.g |
| 03:34.56 | IriX64 | should be a way to check databases for integrity, sticky note applied. |
| 03:35.04 | bjorkBSD | oh! |
| 03:35.06 | bjorkBSD | i see now. |
| 03:35.32 | bjorkBSD | '+' didn't work. |
| 03:37.42 | IriX64 | which + key did you use they do different things :P |
| 03:40.18 | IriX64 | say bjorkBSD does an upside down flag mean anything? |
| 03:40.34 | bjorkBSD | hmm. not sure. but i thought it did. |
| 03:40.45 | bjorkBSD | i know a flag flying at half mast means there's been a death. |
| 03:40.55 | IriX64 | specialy on site. |
| 03:41.12 | IriX64 | you type fast. |
| 03:41.31 | IriX64 | :) |
| 03:41.43 | fenn | raskin's zooming UI reminds me of the jurassic park interface |
| 03:43.26 | bjorkBSD | that one's from irix, actually fenn. |
| 03:43.39 | fenn | i know, i have the linux version right here :) |
| 03:43.40 | bjorkBSD | but his zooming interface is different. |
| 03:43.47 | bjorkBSD | the linux version?! whoa where? |
| 03:45.32 | bjorkBSD | hmm. blender and brl-CAD. no overlaps right? |
| 03:46.10 | fenn | bjorkBSD: http://fsv.sourceforge.net/ |
| 03:46.11 | brlcad | no, there are some .. just not in the fundamental criteria |
| 03:46.43 | brlcad | about as much overlap as unigraphics overlaps with maya |
| 03:47.48 | brlcad | fenn: raskin's book better talks about his ideas than his project that he started before his passing does imho |
| 03:48.56 | brlcad | though the project was the beginning of an attempt to put one of the more radical ideas into practice, and has kicked off as a project on it's own |
| 03:49.01 | brlcad | son's leading it iirc |
| 03:51.06 | IriX64 | $ ERROR: NULL bu_mapped_file pointer, file g_dsp.c, line 3135 |
| 03:51.12 | IriX64 | ????? |
| 03:51.33 | IriX64 | can't find this, only happens on terra.g |
| 03:51.48 | IriX64 | get mapped file opne failed at load time. |
| 03:51.53 | IriX64 | open too. |
| 03:52.49 | bjorkBSD | i don't get that. |
| 03:52.55 | bjorkBSD | do you open it from the shell? |
| 03:52.57 | IriX64 | on terra? |
| 03:53.07 | IriX64 | from the gui. |
| 03:54.01 | bjorkBSD | hmm should i do it from there? |
| 03:54.06 | bjorkBSD | i did it from the shell. |
| 03:55.08 | IriX64 | 10 mapped file open failed messages on mged window, and if i try to e terra.n_sm it bombs. |
| 03:56.32 | IriX64 | havoc on the other hand displays beautifully. |
| 03:58.51 | IriX64 | Requesting 16 cpus, only 1 available. Will use 1. |
| 03:58.51 | IriX64 | BRL-CAD Release 10.0.0 The BRL-CAD Raytracer RT |
| 03:58.51 | IriX64 | <PROTECTED> |
| 03:58.51 | IriX64 | <PROTECTED> |
| 03:58.51 | IriX64 | BRL-CAD Release 10.0.0 The BRL-CAD Ray-Tracing Library |
| 03:59.25 | *** join/#brlcad DTRemenak|RDP (n=DTRemena@c-24-23-59-104.hsd1.ca.comcast.net) | |
| 04:01.02 | bjorkBSD | 10.0? |
| 04:01.08 | bjorkBSD | i thought it was on 7.8.2? |
| 04:01.35 | IriX64 | i don't release this stuff thats for my own use. |
| 04:01.51 | IriX64 | stuff you want is on sourceforge. |
| 04:02.15 | IriX64 | Requesting 16 cpus, only 1 available. Will use 1. |
| 04:02.15 | IriX64 | BRL-CAD Release 10.0.0 The BRL-CAD Raytracer RT |
| 04:02.16 | IriX64 | <PROTECTED> |
| 04:02.16 | IriX64 | <PROTECTED> |
| 04:02.16 | IriX64 | BRL-CAD Release 10.0.0 The BRL-CAD Ray-Tracing Library |
| 04:02.25 | IriX64 | bah |
| 04:02.34 | IriX64 | paste errrrffff. |
| 04:04.07 | brlcad | you're good at that |
| 04:04.26 | IriX64 | king of oop ill have you know :P |
| 04:07.23 | IriX64 | SHOT: cpu = 6.469 sec, elapsed = 180.507 sec |
| 04:07.25 | IriX64 | <PROTECTED> |
| 04:07.27 | IriX64 | <PROTECTED> |
| 04:07.29 | IriX64 | Additional mem=1507328., #malloc=891, #free=710, #realloc=31 (181 retained) |
| 04:07.31 | IriX64 | 3457429 solid/ray intersections: 772185 hits + 2685244 miss |
| 04:07.33 | IriX64 | pruned 22.3%: 55 model RPP, 17251462 dups skipped, 5048503 solid RPP |
| 04:07.35 | IriX64 | Frame 0: 476100 pixels in 6.47 sec = 73597.16 pixels/sec |
| 04:07.37 | IriX64 | Frame 0: 502887 rays in 6.47 sec = 77737.98 rays/sec (RTFM) |
| 04:07.39 | IriX64 | Frame 0: 502887 rays in 6.47 sec = 77737.98 rays/CPU_sec |
| 04:07.41 | IriX64 | Frame 0: 502887 rays in 180.51 sec = 2785.97 rays/sec (wallclock) |
| 04:07.43 | IriX64 | Raytrace complete. |
| 04:09.42 | IriX64 | farg it need nicotine bbiab. |
| 04:16.34 | bjorkBSD | holy shit! i just made a fucking tea cup! :x |
| 04:18.07 | bjorkBSD | okay! i'm gonna need a gallon of coffee. |
| 04:27.48 | *** join/#brlcad MarioD (n=who@toronto-HSE-ppp4302174.sympatico.ca) | |
| 04:30.47 | MarioD | <IriX64> 3457429 solid/ray intersections: 772185 hits + 2685244 miss |
| 04:30.47 | MarioD | <IriX64> pruned 22.3%: 55 model RPP, 17251462 dups skipped, 5048503 solid RPP |
| 04:30.47 | MarioD | <IriX64> Frame 0: 476100 pixels in 6.47 sec = 73597.16 pixels/sec |
| 04:30.47 | MarioD | <IriX64> Frame 0: 502887 rays in 6.47 sec = 77737.98 rays/sec (RTFM) |
| 04:30.47 | MarioD | <IriX64> Frame 0: 502887 rays in 6.47 sec = 77737.98 rays/CPU_sec |
| 04:30.47 | MarioD | <IriX64> Frame 0: 502887 rays in 180.51 sec = 2785.97 rays/sec (wallclock) |
| 04:30.49 | MarioD | <IriX64> Raytrace complete. |
| 04:31.02 | MarioD | ahhh |
| 04:31.21 | MarioD | ill leave on my own, sorry all |
| 04:31.36 | bjorkBSD | eh? what's the hurry? |
| 08:58.00 | *** join/#brlcad clock_ (n=clock@zux221-122-143.adsl.green.ch) | |
| 16:59.10 | *** join/#brlcad ibot (i=ibot@pdpc/supporter/active/TimRiker/bot/apt) | |
| 16:59.10 | *** topic/#brlcad is http://brlcad.org/ || BRL-CAD is an open source solid modeling software suite || Developers needed! Read the HACKING file for details on getting involved | |
| 17:53.51 | *** join/#brlcad IriX64 (n=IriX64@toronto-HSE-ppp4304371.sympatico.ca) | |
| 17:54.13 | IriX64 | reville at 13:00 hrs hooo boy. |
| 17:55.58 | IriX64 | havoc woke me up saying i'm ready to be rendered :) |
| 17:56.13 | IriX64 | SHOT: cpu = 1.625 sec, elapsed = 9.773 sec |
| 17:56.13 | IriX64 | <PROTECTED> |
| 17:56.13 | IriX64 | <PROTECTED> |
| 17:56.13 | IriX64 | Additional mem=1474560., #malloc=856, #free=706, #realloc=9 (150 retained) |
| 17:56.14 | IriX64 | 517310 solid/ray intersections: 229225 hits + 288085 miss |
| 17:56.14 | IriX64 | pruned 44.3%: 376272 model RPP, 830955 dups skipped, 322967 solid RPP |
| 17:56.16 | IriX64 | Frame 0: 476100 pixels in 1.62 sec = 292984.62 pixels/sec |
| 17:56.18 | IriX64 | Frame 0: 480393 rays in 1.62 sec = 295626.46 rays/sec (RTFM) |
| 17:56.20 | IriX64 | Frame 0: 480393 rays in 1.62 sec = 295626.46 rays/CPU_sec |
| 17:56.22 | IriX64 | Frame 0: 480393 rays in 9.77 sec = 49155.12 rays/sec (wallclock) |
| 17:56.24 | IriX64 | Raytrace complete. |
| 17:57.21 | IriX64 | mged> ``Erik, can't touce your time tho :( |
| 17:57.34 | IriX64 | err -mged |
| 17:57.53 | IriX64 | touch too sigh. |
| 17:59.07 | IriX64 | pick a database we'll compare notes. |
| 18:03.09 | IriX64 | Low overhead scanline-per-CPU buffering |
| 18:03.10 | IriX64 | SHOT: cpu = 3.734 sec, elapsed = 68.948 sec |
| 18:03.10 | IriX64 | <PROTECTED> |
| 18:03.10 | IriX64 | <PROTECTED> |
| 18:03.10 | IriX64 | Additional mem=1495040., #malloc=859, #free=706, #realloc=13 (153 retained) |
| 18:03.10 | IriX64 | 949505 solid/ray intersections: 264717 hits + 684788 miss |
| 18:03.12 | IriX64 | pruned 27.9%: 251771 model RPP, 3046044 dups skipped, 765668 solid RPP |
| 18:03.14 | IriX64 | Frame 0: 476100 pixels in 3.73 sec = 127504.02 pixels/sec |
| 18:03.16 | IriX64 | Frame 0: 481160 rays in 3.73 sec = 128859.13 rays/sec (RTFM) |
| 18:03.19 | IriX64 | Frame 0: 481160 rays in 3.73 sec = 128859.13 rays/CPU_sec |
| 18:03.20 | IriX64 | Frame 0: 481160 rays in 68.95 sec = 6978.59 rays/sec (wallclock) |
| 18:03.22 | IriX64 | Raytrace complete. |
| 18:03.27 | IriX64 | wonder how much of this you'll tolerate :) |
| 18:04.34 | IriX64 | ill stop now it's just that im so excited. |
| 18:05.11 | IriX64 | bjorkBSD how's your effort coming along? |
| 18:07.04 | IriX64 | come... it's real, you pick the database file ill post the shot times. |
| 18:07.36 | IriX64 | except for terra.g im still trying to figure that one out. |
| 18:09.05 | IriX64 | Requesting 16 cpus, only 1 available. Will use 1. |
| 18:09.06 | IriX64 | BRL-CAD Release 10.0.0 The BRL-CAD Raytracer RT |
| 18:09.06 | IriX64 | <PROTECTED> |
| 18:09.06 | IriX64 | <PROTECTED> |
| 18:09.06 | IriX64 | BRL-CAD Release 10.0.0 The BRL-CAD Ray-Tracing Library |
| 18:09.06 | IriX64 | <PROTECTED> |
| 18:09.08 | IriX64 | <PROTECTED> |
| 18:09.10 | IriX64 | BRL-CAD Release 10.0.0 The BRL-CAD Numerical Computation Library |
| 18:09.12 | IriX64 | <PROTECTED> |
| 18:09.14 | IriX64 | <PROTECTED> |
| 18:09.16 | IriX64 | BRL-CAD Release 10.0.0 The BRL-CAD Utility Library |
| 18:09.18 | IriX64 | <PROTECTED> |
| 18:09.20 | IriX64 | <PROTECTED> |
| 18:10.58 | IriX64 | WARNING: Compile-time debugging is enabled and may limit performance |
| 18:12.17 | IriX64 | may I share my effort? |
| 18:13.27 | IriX64 | ill try to ftp it to ftp://ftp.brlcad.org again. |
| 18:15.40 | IriX64 | keeps aborting blah. |
| 18:19.18 | IriX64 | trying again. |
| 18:27.08 | IriX64 | mirrored floors? :) |
| 18:31.17 | IriX64 | not bad for a 2.4ghz cpu. |
| 18:34.34 | IriX64 | a 6hr xfer, can you wait orshould i abort it? |
| 19:32.50 | CIA-9 | BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/libbu/linebuf.c: make linux less unhappy, setlinebuf() apparently returns void on linux so prefer to use setvbuf() when available so we can catch any error |
| 19:33.14 | brlcad | IriX64: just what ARE you doing... |
| 19:33.34 | brlcad | really is no need to keep pasting that much stuff... :) |
| 19:34.32 | brlcad | the rtfm line is the main useful one, though your wallclock time is incredibly skewed.. |
| 19:36.20 | brlcad | it shouldn't be that far off of the rtfm count, implies something else is seriously taking up time on your system .. |
| 19:48.41 | *** join/#brlcad clock_ (i=clock@84-72-94-1.dclient.hispeed.ch) | |
| 19:49.11 | bjorkBSD | IriX64, i'm gonna do the teacup again, this time i'll watch what happens carefully. |
| 19:49.30 | bjorkBSD | brb |
| 19:50.02 | clock_ | brlcad: surfboard rulez! |
| 19:51.52 | *** join/#brlcad bjorkBSD (n=bjork@ip70-178-169-173.ks.ks.cox.net) | |
| 19:51.53 | brlcad | ok |
| 19:55.25 | IriX64 | thanks brlcad i'll bring up task manager and check it ;) |
| 19:55.56 | IriX64 | teacup which database is it? |
| 19:56.10 | IriX64 | ah the tutorial i c. |
| 19:56.36 | bjorkBSD | yeah. |
| 19:56.39 | IriX64 | brlcad's being polite, read screwed for scewed :) |
| 19:56.52 | bjorkBSD | IriX64, what are you doing? |
| 19:56.59 | bjorkBSD | i keep seeing brlcad 10.0.0 |
| 19:57.21 | IriX64 | told you thats for my benifit. |
| 19:58.49 | bjorkBSD | <PROTECTED> |
| 19:58.53 | bjorkBSD | c'mon! fess up. i seem to be on version 7. |
| 19:59.53 | IriX64 | as long as i don't spread this stuff around i can play with it to my hearts content, im just playing with the version number to test something else bjorkBSD. |
| 20:00.23 | IriX64 | and you don't know what version you are on? :) |
| 20:10.23 | IriX64 | Frame 0: 476100 rays in 0.53 sec = 896610.17 rays/sec (RTFM) |
| 20:10.38 | IriX64 | Fthis bldg391 on v9.0.4 brlcad. |
| 20:10.57 | IriX64 | default scale. |
| 20:11.23 | bjorkBSD | oh i see. are you a brl developer? |
| 20:11.38 | bjorkBSD | i'm on 7.8.2 |
| 20:12.08 | IriX64 | why did you guys hard code the resources directories man? (duh goof thats the way it evolved) |
| 20:12.16 | IriX64 | :) |
| 20:12.50 | IriX64 | no bjorkBSD i am not a devloper more of a lone wolf. |
| 20:13.18 | IriX64 | ooooowwwwwwwwwwoooooooooooooo :) (lunch) |
| 20:13.35 | bjorkBSD | i see. |
| 20:13.42 | bjorkBSD | doesn't brl remind you of logo? |
| 20:13.46 | IriX64 | truly? |
| 20:15.41 | bjorkBSD | it's an ancient language. |
| 20:15.53 | IriX64 | should tie it to --prefix the resources directories i mean. |
| 20:17.30 | IriX64 | computer language? |
| 20:18.33 | IriX64 | BRL-CAD Release 9.0.4 The BRL-CAD Raytracer RT |
| 20:18.44 | IriX64 | happy bjorkBSD? |
| 20:19.40 | IriX64 | WARNING: Compile-time debugging is enabled and may limit performance |
| 20:19.58 | IriX64 | time for a speedy gonzales build ill bbiab. |
| 20:20.28 | bjorkBSD | it's coming down :D |
| 20:21.07 | IriX64 | ? |
| 20:21.15 | IriX64 | the cup? |
| 20:21.50 | bjorkBSD | no. your version numbers. |
| 20:22.03 | IriX64 | fell back a few builds. |
| 20:22.36 | bjorkBSD | interesting. |
| 20:22.40 | IriX64 | ./autogen.sh love it:) |
| 20:25.37 | brlcad | IriX64: the resources directory isn't hard coded |
| 20:27.41 | IriX64 | but it comes up and says this build expects resources to be at ..... |
| 20:29.24 | IriX64 | never mind... you are correct. |
| 20:29.41 | bjorkBSD | IriX64, i encountered that problem because i had brlcad in my .cshrc path |
| 20:29.48 | bjorkBSD | BRLCAD_ROOT ie. |
| 20:30.15 | IriX64 | i encountered it because i have six directories on the go. |
| 20:31.22 | IriX64 | bear in mind i dont play with path here or dirset. |
| 20:38.25 | *** join/#brlcad DTRemenak (n=DTRemena@c-24-23-59-104.hsd1.ca.comcast.net) | |
| 20:43.36 | brlcad | it uses a search path ordering to find the data resources, where the BRLCAD_ROOT/DATA environment variables override if they exist |
| 20:44.08 | brlcad | the windows binaries basically don't do the proper searching yet, so they report an error even though the resources are found |
| 20:44.45 | IriX64 | windows binaries? |
| 20:47.13 | brlcad | if you're not running windows binaries, then that error probably means something wasn't compiled/installed correctly as the output suggests |
| 20:47.51 | IriX64 | truth (how do i make the pedestal of trvth in ascii) :) |
| 20:49.21 | brlcad | ___ |
| 20:49.22 | brlcad | \ |
| 20:49.26 | brlcad | \/ \ |
| 20:49.43 | IriX64 | :) |
| 20:49.45 | brlcad | oh well |
| 20:49.57 | IriX64 | harder than a cow :) |
| 20:50.20 | brlcad | <PROTECTED> |
| 20:50.23 | brlcad | <PROTECTED> |
| 20:50.31 | brlcad | there we go |
| 20:50.40 | IriX64 | thats better i can stand on it. |
| 20:50.51 | IriX64 | errr you can stand on it. |
| 21:00.27 | ValarQ | <PROTECTED> |
| 21:00.27 | ValarQ | <PROTECTED> |
| 21:00.27 | ValarQ | <PROTECTED> |
| 21:00.27 | ValarQ | <PROTECTED> |
| 21:00.58 | ValarQ | cows sure are easier :) |
| 21:01.04 | IriX64 | applause... its been years since ive seen that :) |
| 21:01.37 | IriX64 | <ValarQ> ,__, |
| 21:01.37 | IriX64 | <ValarQ> (oo)____ |
| 21:01.37 | IriX64 | <ValarQ> (__) )\ |
| 21:01.38 | IriX64 | <ValarQ> ||--|| * |
| 21:01.38 | IriX64 | <ValarQ> cows sure are easier :) |
| 21:01.38 | IriX64 | <IriX64> applause... its been years since ive seen that :) |
| 21:01.43 | IriX64 | <PROTECTED> |
| 21:02.01 | ValarQ | you sure like to flood this channel :P |
| 21:02.19 | IriX64 | never kicks me tho i must lead a charmed life :) |
| 21:02.51 | IriX64 | or the bot is someone I know. |
| 21:03.19 | ValarQ | you haven't thought about switching to irssi? |
| 21:03.34 | IriX64 | where do i get it? |
| 21:03.51 | brlcad | yes, the pastes of what other people have already written in particular is getting annoying :P |
| 21:03.52 | ValarQ | the local ports system or at http://irssi.org/ |
| 21:04.14 | IriX64 | ty and point taken brlcad :) |
| 21:04.19 | ValarQ | irssi is clever in that it asks when pasting many lines |
| 21:04.32 | IriX64 | so does mirc. |
| 21:04.41 | ValarQ | never used mirc actually |
| 21:05.19 | ValarQ | btw, can you run mirc on 64bit Irix? :P |
| 21:05.27 | brlcad | irssi is pretty sweet |
| 21:06.46 | ValarQ | i say like they do with mutt, it's the least bad client out there :) |
| 21:09.43 | CIA-9 | BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/configure.ac: check for the sys/un.h header in order to stop using the HAVE_UNIX_DOMAIN_SOCKETS define |
| 21:10.27 | IriX64 | blargh actually expects gcc doesnt honour the cc variable, be ashamed irssi :) |
| 21:10.54 | CIA-9 | BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/libpkg/pkg.c: s/HAVE_UNIX_DOMAIN_SOCKETS/HAVE_SYS_UN_H/g now that there is a new check in configure.ac |
| 21:22.59 | IriX64 | brb |
| 21:23.52 | *** join/#brlcad IriX64 (n=IriX64@toronto-HSE-ppp4304371.sympatico.ca) | |
| 21:24.12 | IriX64 | ValarQ so? :) |
| 21:24.33 | IriX64 | lets tru paste :P |
| 21:24.38 | IriX64 | try too. |
| 21:25.54 | IriX64 | Elapsed installation time: 7 minutes, 17 seconds |
| 21:25.55 | IriX64 | Elapsed time since configuration: 42 minutes, 48 seconds |
| 21:26.05 | IriX64 | couldnt resist :P |
| 21:30.13 | IriX64 | dunno what ails perl support tho looking for irc dir and fails *shrug* |
| 21:33.25 | IriX64 | smoke break bbiab |
| 21:35.46 | bjorkBSD | brb |
| 21:52.42 | IriX64 | i never could draw :) |
| 22:04.31 | IriX64 | brb |
| 22:14.26 | *** join/#brlcad IriX64 (n=IriX64@toronto-HSE-ppp4304371.sympatico.ca) | |
| 22:17.17 | IriX64 | ValorQ wheres the help screen in this thing. |
| 22:17.29 | IriX64 | err ValarQ |
| 22:17.52 | ValarQ | dunno |
| 22:18.02 | IriX64 | thing being irssi :) |
| 22:18.10 | ValarQ | try /help |
| 22:18.27 | IriX64 | tried /help. |
| 22:20.53 | ValarQ | http://irssi.org/documentation/manual maybe :) |
| 22:21.23 | IriX64 | maybe if i talk to it :) |
| 22:21.48 | IriX64 | no need im not a warrior or anything. |
| 22:22.57 | IriX64 | smoke break again. |
| 22:36.32 | ``Erik | heh |
| 23:12.58 | IriX64 | thank you ValorQ an interesting freaking cadillac of irc clients :) |
| 23:13.09 | IriX64 | err ValarQ too. |
| 23:15.30 | IriX64 | ./who_am_i doesn't work ;) |
| 23:16.08 | IriX64 | but this is not the channel to discuss the relative merits or lack of same in. |
| 23:16.43 | IriX64 | cd /usr/brlcad/bin |
| 23:19.12 | IriX64 | is sphflake the royal orb of Russia? |
| 23:34.18 | *** join/#brlcad DTRemenak (n=DTRemena@c-24-23-59-104.hsd1.ca.comcast.net) | |
| 23:58.59 | ``Erik | it's just a recursive application of spheres... |
| 00:34.39 | *** join/#brlcad IriX64 (n=IriX64@toronto-HSE-ppp4304371.sympatico.ca) | |
| 00:42.30 | IriX64 | urffff running on.... |
| 00:51.29 | *** join/#brlcad MarioD (n=mario_du@toronto-HSE-ppp4304371.sympatico.ca) | |
| 00:52.32 | brlcad | IriX64: can you code? |
| 00:52.44 | brlcad | or better put, are you interested in coding? |
| 00:52.57 | IriX64 | i have a little experience. |
| 00:53.20 | brlcad | and by code, I mean either C/C++/Tcl or even web development |
| 00:53.22 | IriX64 | let me shutdown this thing im playing with. |
| 00:53.27 | *** part/#brlcad MarioD (n=mario_du@toronto-HSE-ppp4304371.sympatico.ca) | |
| 00:53.56 | IriX64 | i use c mixed with a little c++ know nothing about java or web html stuff. |
| 00:54.41 | IriX64 | and a little asm too :) |
| 00:55.12 | IriX64 | why the interest in me? |
| 00:55.42 | brlcad | no rush, just wondering .. because if you can and you are interested, i'm sure there's some rather productive things you could jump into |
| 00:56.16 | IriX64 | ahh the topic is for real then, if im interested in developing, i can get involved? |
| 00:56.30 | brlcad | sure, anyone can get involved |
| 00:56.50 | brlcad | the guidelines are pretty darn flexible |
| 00:56.59 | IriX64 | ill think about it, i already have a pet project, but thanks. |
| 00:57.08 | brlcad | just a thought |
| 00:57.30 | brlcad | you seem to enjoy running the benchmarks.. there's several things that would be useful in that regard |
| 00:57.42 | IriX64 | do a ver on me you probably already know what im doing. |
| 00:58.11 | IriX64 | urrffff benchmarks, you assume much here. |
| 00:58.37 | brlcad | s/benchmarks/ray-tracing/ |
| 00:58.47 | IriX64 | ahh |
| 00:59.25 | brlcad | the brl-cad benchmark suite is based on ray-tracing as the domain metric, cpu-intensive task that exercises several core concepts |
| 00:59.45 | brlcad | while being a real world app instead of just multiplying two number 50 billion times |
| 01:00.16 | brlcad | that's where the rtfm number comes into play, as well as the other numbers listed |
| 01:00.35 | IriX64 | theres a file transfer about to finish to your ftp.brlcad.org, called linuxbrlcad. built for a i586-unix-linux system, would appreciate feedback. |
| 01:00.57 | brlcad | should be able to test that one easily enough |
| 01:01.16 | brlcad | sure it's not for a cray 2 ? :) |
| 01:01.25 | IriX64 | thankyou should create a diirectory call linuxbrlcad, put it anywhere. |
| 01:01.41 | brlcad | what prefix did you compile it for? |
| 01:01.43 | IriX64 | not unless i sent you the wrong file ;) |
| 01:01.51 | IriX64 | linuxbrlcad |
| 01:02.01 | brlcad | you did --prefix=linuxbrlcad ? |
| 01:02.13 | IriX64 | =/usr/linuxbrlcad |
| 01:02.17 | brlcad | ahh |
| 01:03.02 | brlcad | then the compile-time root is /usr/linuxbrlcad, BRLCAD_ROOT has to be set if it's relocated anywhere else |
| 01:03.21 | IriX64 | why do you throttle your server, busy system? |
| 01:03.38 | IriX64 | well do it :) |
| 01:03.41 | brlcad | which server? ftp? |
| 01:03.44 | IriX64 | yes |
| 01:03.50 | brlcad | it's not throttled |
| 01:04.00 | IriX64 | 15kbps |
| 01:04.11 | brlcad | nor in the least bit busy network-wise |
| 01:04.30 | IriX64 | file xfer finished, let me know. |
| 01:04.44 | fenn | so i spent 5 or 6 hours looking around at various GUI and scenegraph libraries last night |
| 01:04.56 | fenn | and didnt find any i liked :( |
| 01:05.12 | IriX64 | was about to ask you and came up with? |
| 01:05.33 | IriX64 | :) |
| 01:06.13 | brlcad | fenn: =) |
| 01:06.31 | fenn | i guess i dont know whether to try to use brl-cad's built-in picking and display algorithms or ... |
| 01:06.51 | IriX64 | begs the question whats scenegraph? :) |
| 01:06.59 | brlcad | it's an epidemic problem.. nothing is really great at anything and every one of them are generally seriously lacking in some regard |
| 01:07.17 | fenn | a data structure used to render stuff on the screen quickly |
| 01:07.26 | fenn | you can prune off branches that aren't visible for instance |
| 01:07.37 | fenn | but brlcad sorta has something like that already |
| 01:07.51 | IriX64 | i like your shift grips scaling manner. |
| 01:07.58 | IriX64 | so easy |
| 01:08.18 | IriX64 | that help button saved me :) |
| 01:08.58 | fenn | brlcad: can i assume that 3 button mice (or at least 2 buttons) are available on all platforms? |
| 01:09.01 | brlcad | fenn: even brl-cad's picking and display code has it's share of warts and deficiencies to say the least |
| 01:09.48 | IriX64 | fenn put it in (ducking and running) |
| 01:09.52 | brlcad | brl-cad's concept of a display manager is a good one, very nice for making relatively no assumptions about a display.. but it's feature-lacking in terms of flexibility of a gui |
| 01:09.53 | fenn | i think i want to copy a large part of blender's UI |
| 01:10.23 | IriX64 | hey you dont like it make it better. |
| 01:10.27 | brlcad | blender's ui layer is actually a fairly self-contained chunk of code in a library iirc |
| 01:11.19 | IriX64 | smoke break. |
| 01:12.34 | brlcad | for scenegraph management, there's one project that really has a lot of momentum going -- openscenegraph |
| 01:12.53 | brlcad | context and gui/widget management, however, is another story |
| 01:12.56 | fenn | yeah that and ogre3d |
| 01:13.06 | fenn | they're both humongous monsters though |
| 01:13.17 | brlcad | ogre's nice.. but it has a series of other issues |
| 01:14.36 | brlcad | i have a list of notes somewhere when I was doing extensive evaluation of a lot of packages several months back.. should put it up on a wiki or something |
| 01:15.17 | brlcad | one thing I did like from ogre was cegui |
| 01:15.32 | fenn | hehe me too |
| 01:15.38 | brlcad | that eddie has got a crazy library going there |
| 01:17.32 | brlcad | ogre's performance is less than optimal by quite a bit, their design is pretty clean/nice, platform support is unfortunately limited from what we're used to needing, license is good |
| 01:18.11 | fenn | how is it less than optimal? |
| 01:19.32 | brlcad | they're working on mild game environments, relatively optimized low polygon counts, and getting "middle" okay framerates |
| 01:20.14 | brlcad | add in something nice and complex like you'd often have on a CAD part and it goes through the floor, had some little test programs, test models |
| 01:20.37 | fenn | hm |
| 01:20.38 | brlcad | i'm sure it's probably something fixable, and hardware will of course pick up.. that wasn't a critical concern, just noteworthy |
| 01:21.00 | brlcad | platform support was more disconcerting actually |
| 01:21.05 | fenn | and you didnt have this problem with openscenegraph? |
| 01:22.45 | brlcad | yeah, performance was considerably better albeit without some of the bells and whistles ogre can do. osg doesn't have the platform problems iirc too or very many external dependencies |
| 01:23.22 | brlcad | biggest issue that comes to mind sans notes is that they didn't have as clean an api, and they were "bigger" and slightly more complex |
| 01:23.29 | fenn | thing is we don't need 90% of the bells 'n whistles ogre can do |
| 01:23.31 | brlcad | not nearly as complex a beast as crystalspace |
| 01:23.35 | brlcad | yep |
| 01:24.03 | brlcad | ogre is primarily a rendering engine according to the devs I spoke with, not even a gaming engine first |
| 01:24.16 | fenn | seems like libraries should post a list of dependencies on the front page |
| 01:25.45 | brlcad | they really should, i had to really dig on some projects |
| 01:25.59 | brlcad | looking into things like their debian spec sheet to find the list |
| 01:26.10 | fenn | yikes |
| 01:26.11 | brlcad | or their freebsd ports entry |
| 01:26.40 | brlcad | don't recall ogre's deps being bad |
| 01:26.53 | brlcad | it did end up in my top 5 |
| 01:27.30 | ``Erik | *yawn* |
| 01:27.50 | ``Erik | ewie |
| 01:29.21 | ``Erik | I think I forgot to commit before I left today |
| 01:55.28 | IriX64 | green text on a black background ... nice |
| 01:57.10 | IriX64 | hahaha mircdcc? |
| 01:59.00 | IriX64 | might become my new favorite client. |
| 01:59.59 | brlcad | which is that? |
| 02:00.08 | IriX64 | irssi |
| 02:00.14 | brlcad | ahh, good good |
| 02:00.26 | IriX64 | nice client. |
| 02:00.34 | brlcad | very nice |
| 02:00.49 | IriX64 | well behaved lots of toys etc. :) |
| 02:01.17 | IriX64 | rehash? this thing has a bot? |
| 02:02.52 | IriX64 | in a galaxy far far away, .... client wars :) |
| 02:03.40 | IriX64 | well theres a code generator calling me, ill go into lurk mode. |
| 02:39.26 | *** join/#brlcad ibot (i=ibot@rikers.org) | |
| 02:39.26 | *** topic/#brlcad is http://brlcad.org/ || BRL-CAD is an open source solid modeling software suite || Developers needed! Read the HACKING file for details on getting involved | |
| 02:39.59 | *** join/#brlcad Maloeran (n=maloeran@glvortex.net) | |
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| 02:41.35 | *** join/#brlcad ValarQ (i=vq@217-209-43-30-no48.tbcn.telia.com) | |
| 02:41.55 | *** join/#brlcad joevalleyfield (n=joevalle@bz.bzflag.bz) [NETSPLIT VICTIM] | |
| 02:46.05 | *** join/#brlcad brlcad (n=sean@bz.bzflag.bz) [NETSPLIT VICTIM] | |
| 03:25.19 | fenn | surf's up dude.. ride the netsplit like you just don't care |
| 03:48.42 | *** join/#brlcad DTRemenak (n=DTRemena@c-24-23-59-104.hsd1.ca.comcast.net) | |
| 03:55.29 | *** join/#brlcad digitalfredy (n=digitalf@200.71.62.161) | |
| 04:53.09 | *** join/#brlcad IriX64_ (n=IriX64@toronto-HSE-ppp4304346.sympatico.ca) | |
| 05:02.05 | IriX64_ | erf |
| 05:02.19 | IriX64_ | is nickserv down? |
| 07:01.01 | *** join/#brlcad clock_ (i=clock@84-72-63-34.dclient.hispeed.ch) | |
| 08:50.07 | *** join/#brlcad clock_ (n=clock@zux221-122-143.adsl.green.ch) | |
| 10:19.08 | *** join/#brlcad bjorkBSD (n=bjork@ip70-178-169-173.ks.ks.cox.net) | |
| 14:34.37 | *** join/#brlcad digitalfredy (n=digitalf@200.71.62.161) | |
| 15:03.15 | CIA-9 | BRL-CAD: 03erikgreenwald * 10brlcad/include/ (db5.h raytrace.h rtgeom.h): claiming a number for metaballs |
| 15:03.42 | clock_ | erik always does O_o |
| 15:03.48 | ``Erik | bull fuckin shit |
| 15:03.49 | ``Erik | o.O |
| 15:03.54 | clock_ | OK o.O |
| 15:03.56 | ``Erik | see, a dot, not an underscore |
| 15:03.59 | ``Erik | O.o |
| 15:04.16 | clock_ | what does it actually mean? |
| 15:04.28 | ``Erik | either a cocked eyebrow, or a 'bill the cat' look |
| 15:05.21 | ``Erik | http://www.chimique.usherbrooke.ca/crtp/profs/Bill.jpg |
| 15:06.16 | clock_ | funny |
| 15:06.31 | clock_ | what does cocked eyebrow mean? |
| 15:07.13 | ``Erik | http://publish.uwo.ca/~jpalmer/images/cocked%20eyebrow.jpg |
| 15:07.25 | ``Erik | g00gle r0x0rz |
| 15:07.45 | clock_ | yes I know what cocked eyebrow looks like but what does it mean? |
| 15:08.08 | ``Erik | I d'no *shrug* :D |
| 15:08.12 | ``Erik | I just like makin' faces |
| 15:08.31 | clock_ | OK that's a reasonable explanation :) |
| 15:10.26 | clock_ | ``Erik: are you also a surfer like brlcad>? |
| 15:11.19 | ``Erik | nyet |
| 15:11.47 | ``Erik | <-- couch potato |
| 15:13.21 | *** join/#brlcad IriX64 (n=IriX64@toronto-HSE-ppp4306739.sympatico.ca) | |
| 15:18.43 | *** join/#brlcad IriX64 (n=IriX64@toronto-HSE-ppp4306739.sympatico.ca) | |
| 15:19.08 | IriX64 | ermf the cygwin effort aborts when you press control c to abort a paste :) |
| 15:19.46 | ``Erik | erm, ^c is SIGTERM |
| 15:20.06 | IriX64 | why doesnt it die in the unix environment then. |
| 15:20.27 | ``Erik | cuz it runs detached? *shrug* |
| 15:20.58 | IriX64 | bash: IriX64@hagars-py0qj2wb: command not found |
| 15:21.27 | IriX64 | here it did not even ask for confirmation. |
| 15:24.20 | IriX64 | $ usage: autossh [-M monitor_port] [-f] [SSH_OPTIONS] |
| 15:24.30 | IriX64 | what gives here? |
| 15:24.57 | IriX64 | in the win environment it asks for confirmation on a paste, here nada. |
| 15:25.09 | clock_ | ``Erik: do you work at the same place as brlcad? |
| 15:25.51 | IriX64 | perhaps i should take this to #irssi :) |
| 15:26.04 | ``Erik | same building, yeah |
| 15:30.52 | clock_ | ``Erik: yes cracks will develop in the CPUs |
| 15:32.02 | ``Erik | I've seen issues with brlcad's build system going TOO parallel... |
| 15:34.17 | clock_ | then aren't the dependencies badly written? |
| 15:39.37 | brlcad | more than likely a make race-condition bug |
| 15:40.52 | ``Erik | or I did something stupid or had an nfs blowout |
| 15:41.05 | ``Erik | sean, do you review all the commits? |
| 15:41.10 | brlcad | yeah |
| 15:41.26 | ``Erik | ok, so if I oops, you'll let me know |
| 15:41.36 | brlcad | careful on those MAX id defines.. one of them is the max define for the primitive lookup table |
| 15:41.57 | ``Erik | hm, both were 36, and I bumped 'em both... |
| 15:41.59 | brlcad | which is an array.. and if you don't add the table entry, it's going to segfault |
| 15:42.10 | ``Erik | librt/table.c ? |
| 15:42.18 | brlcad | yeah |
| 15:42.50 | ``Erik | hm |
| 15:42.57 | ``Erik | so I should throw a skeleton in quick |
| 15:43.24 | brlcad | i'm rather concerned about a comment I left in.. |
| 15:43.27 | brlcad | "Add a new primitive id above here (this is will break v5 format)" |
| 15:44.46 | brlcad | i don't recall that being the case, have to think about it some more and test it |
| 15:45.00 | *** join/#brlcad AbsTradELic (n=vldmr@201.19.91.23) | |
| 15:45.07 | brlcad | but yeah, should throw in a skeleton table entry, even if they're all nul |
| 15:52.34 | ``Erik | doink |
| 15:52.56 | CIA-9 | BRL-CAD: 03erikgreenwald * 10brlcad/src/librt/ (g_metaball.c Makefile.am table.c): initial metaball support (skeletal) |
| 15:53.45 | clock_ | g_meatball.c ;-) |
| 15:53.59 | ``Erik | yup, meatballs |
| 15:54.11 | ``Erik | on top of spaghetti... all covered with cheese... |
| 15:58.34 | ``Erik | damnit, now I'm hungry |
| 15:58.40 | ``Erik | I want swedish meatballs... :( |
| 15:59.14 | ``Erik | if vegetarians only eat vegetables, what's a humanitarian eat? |
| 16:00.18 | clock_ | only humans |
| 16:00.19 | ValarQ | i'm a bit of a second grade vegetarian, i only eat vegetarians |
| 16:00.30 | clock_ | vegetarianarian |
| 16:00.35 | ValarQ | :) |
| 16:01.15 | clock_ | o.O strikes again |
| 16:01.20 | ``Erik | valarq: you don't eat pig or fish? |
| 16:01.35 | clock_ | meatarian is who doesn't eats vegetables only meat |
| 16:01.52 | ValarQ | ``Erik: only pigs and fish that eat vegetables |
| 16:02.19 | clock_ | better to figure out a whole family tree of the food |
| 16:02.27 | ``Erik | how do you know? |
| 16:02.33 | clock_ | what if the vegetables grow on a cemetery? |
| 16:02.35 | ValarQ | i don't |
| 16:02.45 | clock_ | they grow up from meat |
| 16:03.00 | clock_ | cemetarian - ets only zombies :) |
| 16:03.01 | ValarQ | isn't it ok to wrongly assume things? :o) |
| 16:03.21 | ``Erik | opposed to a cementarian? |
| 16:03.28 | clock_ | Hi. I am 103 years old so I am a so called cemetarian :) |
| 16:03.47 | ``Erik | mmm, cement, yummy |
| 16:06.31 | ``Erik | bitch |
| 16:06.42 | brlcad | heh |
| 16:06.49 | ``Erik | I think I'm skipping lunch today |
| 16:07.02 | brlcad | have to go tag/title the blue whale |
| 16:07.08 | clock_ | there is some saying something like that if someone is cute that he's like to be eaten or something like that |
| 16:07.10 | ``Erik | if I go to duclaws, I'll wanna stop by home and take my growlers... |
| 16:07.11 | clock_ | how is it exactly? |
| 16:07.31 | brlcad | never heard that saying |
| 16:07.31 | ``Erik | "so cute you could just eat him up?" said by ancient blue-haired women? |
| 16:07.40 | brlcad | ahh |
| 16:07.49 | clock_ | only ancient blue-haired women say that? |
| 16:08.00 | brlcad | "he's so cute, I could just eat him [alive]" |
| 16:08.12 | ``Erik | when they bust out a knife and fork, RUN |
| 16:09.27 | ``Erik | you only eat surfers? |
| 16:09.29 | clock_ | when I was a kid I realized that if you stick a magnet into sand, it will pull out little iron grains out. |
| 16:09.45 | clock_ | There is so little iron grains in the sand that I don't see them and think there are actually no iron grains |
| 16:10.05 | ValarQ | http://arda.no-ip.org/blocket_340.jpg |
| 16:10.10 | ValarQ | there's one :) |
| 16:10.15 | clock_ | ``Erik: do you know any other class of cute boys? |
| 16:11.55 | ``Erik | <-- doesn't look for cute boys, ain't that way, sorry |
| 16:13.55 | brlcad | mm.. surfer instructor girl.. I would have probably enjoyed that |
| 16:14.14 | clock_ | brlcad: should I inform her? |
| 16:14.19 | clock_ | brlcad: she looks cute |
| 16:14.30 | ``Erik | heh, hell of a drive, though... |
| 16:14.36 | brlcad | is she within driving distance? :) |
| 16:14.45 | clock_ | brlcad: depends on how strong is your sexual drive |
| 16:15.09 | brlcad | heh |
| 16:15.30 | clock_ | brlcad: I guess you must be doing the lifting also for a similar purpose, don't you? :) |
| 16:16.23 | ``Erik | heh, do you lift to get the sort of gay boys that clock likes, dude? |
| 16:16.25 | ``Erik | :> |
| 16:16.57 | clock_ | ``Erik: in brlcad case it will probably translate to girls |
| 16:17.18 | ``Erik | hehehe I d'no, he dresses too snappy... I'm kinda wondering |
| 16:17.27 | ``Erik | *duck* :D |
| 16:17.33 | clock_ | snappy means what? smart? |
| 16:18.06 | ValarQ | heh |
| 16:20.59 | ``Erik | hrmph, none of my graphics books talk about metaballs |
| 16:21.25 | AbsTradELic | hi |
| 16:22.02 | clock_ | AbsTradELic: hi your name sounds Czech |
| 16:22.03 | brlcad | jeans and a clean shirt is snappy? heh |
| 16:23.33 | AbsTradELic | ok... hi all ! |
| 16:23.50 | AbsTradELic | its my first time become here |
| 16:24.01 | AbsTradELic | I found the project on web |
| 16:24.25 | AbsTradELic | and found refers to this irc channel |
| 16:24.54 | AbsTradELic | I have difficulties with english dialet, but I know the sufficient to understand |
| 16:25.14 | ``Erik | yeah, you and your CLEAN tshirts, wtf |
| 16:25.25 | clock_ | dialect, a nice name for a world language :) |
| 16:25.51 | *** join/#brlcad IriX64 (n=IriX64@toronto-HSE-ppp4306739.sympatico.ca) | |
| 16:26.29 | IriX64 | bugs in x11 (moved to ultra mega lightyears backburner) :) |
| 16:26.32 | brlcad | AbsTradELic: howdy, and yes sufficient to understand |
| 16:26.59 | clock_ | AbsTradELic: your english is actually quite good |
| 16:27.13 | AbsTradELic | tnk u |
| 16:27.30 | AbsTradELic | my native language is portuguese |
| 16:27.38 | AbsTradELic | and I live in brazil |
| 16:27.46 | brlcad | AbsTradELic: aunque parece que eres de brazil, yo entiendo espanol si te conviene |
| 16:28.10 | AbsTradELic | brlcad: english is better to me |
| 16:28.16 | brlcad | for me to ;) |
| 16:28.31 | ``Erik | yo quiero taco bell, nacho grande burrito supreme spaghetti |
| 16:28.43 | AbsTradELic | eeheeehee |
| 16:28.46 | brlcad | mm.. spagetti sounds good |
| 16:28.57 | IriX64 | watch it ``Erik that last word is me ;) |
| 16:28.58 | clock_ | supreme spaghetti even better |
| 16:29.03 | ``Erik | "damnit, beavis, that's not even spanish! go to the principals office!" |
| 16:29.29 | brlcad | IriX64: you're a noodle? |
| 16:29.38 | brlcad | covered in sauce? |
| 16:29.40 | IriX64 | yeah and a meatball :) |
| 16:29.43 | clock_ | AbsTradELic: have you had Czech Ancestors so your name is Vladimir? |
| 16:29.57 | clock_ | meatball in graphic book. Too graphic book. |
| 16:29.58 | AbsTradELic | nops |
| 16:30.04 | clock_ | AbsTradELic: then Russian? |
| 16:30.14 | IriX64 | ahh come its all light teasing. |
| 16:30.26 | brlcad | light seasoning? |
| 16:30.35 | ``Erik | don't make him go all impaler on your ass, clock :) |
| 16:30.46 | clock_ | ``Erik: what does impaler mean? |
| 16:30.52 | IriX64 | heh |
| 16:30.56 | ``Erik | um, 'vlad the impaler'? |
| 16:31.02 | AbsTradELic | I really dont understand why my dad put this name in me |
| 16:31.08 | IriX64 | val the stick |
| 16:31.20 | IriX64 | sos the rope. |
| 16:31.21 | clock_ | AbsTradELic: but it sounds really cool |
| 16:31.33 | clock_ | Vladimir de Almeida |
| 16:32.00 | ``Erik | basarab? |
| 16:32.01 | AbsTradELic | Vladimir de Almeida Fernandes |
| 16:32.06 | clock_ | even better |
| 16:32.15 | IriX64 | ValarQ what are you running your irssi if i may ask? |
| 16:32.22 | IriX64 | on i mean. |
| 16:32.42 | clock_ | AbsTradELic: and do you have some problem with brlcad? |
| 16:32.42 | brlcad | any relation to Laurindo Almeida (famous classic guitarist)? |
| 16:33.05 | IriX64 | os? |
| 16:33.06 | brlcad | heh, bombarded with personal questions and the guy just wants to talk about cad :) |
| 16:33.36 | clock_ | AbsTradELic: are you gay? |
| 16:33.44 | AbsTradELic | I have downloaded the brlcad and uncompress it into my usr/local/src |
| 16:33.45 | IriX64 | p?=sop :) |
| 16:34.12 | brlcad | clock_: not exactly appropriate to toss sexuality into the mix out of the blue :P |
| 16:34.16 | AbsTradELic | its a compiled to ia32 |
| 16:34.34 | IriX64 | ia32=? |
| 16:34.37 | clock_ | brlcad: it's harmless. A heterosexual says "no" and a homosexual sends a quesry |
| 16:34.39 | clock_ | query |
| 16:34.46 | ``Erik | ia32 is intel arch 32... pentiums, etc... |
| 16:34.53 | IriX64 | ty |
| 16:34.56 | brlcad | perhaps harmless, still inappropriate in that manner for here |
| 16:35.15 | IriX64 | won't canonicalize ``Erik :) |
| 16:35.17 | ``Erik | put your willy away, clock, we got tech talk goin'... :) |
| 16:35.36 | clock_ | brlcad: yes but if you say a remark about girls, it's also sexuality (a majority one) |
| 16:35.42 | AbsTradELic | allright here ? |
| 16:35.47 | clock_ | brlcad: so is talking about girls forbidden here? |
| 16:35.52 | brlcad | AbsTradELic: if you downloaded a binary distribution of brl-cad, it expects to be installed into /usr/brlcad |
| 16:36.11 | AbsTradELic | I'll move it |
| 16:36.11 | brlcad | clock_: i didn't say talking about it is forbidden.. bringing it up out of the blue can be |
| 16:36.17 | clock_ | ``Erik: homosexuality is not only about willy. It's about emotions, too. This one was about sexuality, and not mine :) |
| 16:36.34 | clock_ | brlcad: OK if bringing girls out of the blue is not appropriate, then I admmit my fault. |
| 16:37.24 | brlcad | clock_: i mean we've clearly talked about both in the past, usually a gradual change of topic .. that however just wasn't gradual, especially to a new channel "visitor" |
| 16:37.28 | ``Erik | AbsTradELic: did you make sure to get the binaries for the right operating systme, aw well? FreeBSD binaries will not run on Linux... etc... |
| 16:37.42 | ``Erik | s/aw/as/ |
| 16:37.50 | brlcad | if it had been a girl and ``Erik started hitting on her asking age etc, it would have been just as inappropriate imho |
| 16:38.03 | ``Erik | !~#!~@ A/S/L~!!!! |
| 16:38.05 | brlcad | not that he does that :) |
| 16:38.05 | ``Erik | *duck* |
| 16:38.08 | brlcad | heh |
| 16:38.23 | AbsTradELic | ``Erik: ;) |
| 16:38.26 | IriX64 | well you are entitled to an opion no matter how wrong it may be brlcad :) |
| 16:38.40 | clock_ | brlcad: or download the source. It compiles fine. The README says how to compile but I guess it's just ./configure && make && make install |
| 16:38.47 | clock_ | then it tells you to put some path into the PATH |
| 16:38.58 | clock_ | so you do it and then run "mged" and it will start up |
| 16:39.34 | brlcad | IriX64: right or wrong, my opinion prevails in this particular forum |
| 16:39.39 | clock_ | AbsTradELic: you can put the path into /etc/profile, /etc/env.d or ~/.profile, ~/.bash_profile or ~/.bashrc (depends on operating system and how it's set up) |
| 16:39.47 | IriX64 | mea cupa :) |
| 16:39.56 | AbsTradELic | ``Erik: linux |
| 16:40.03 | AbsTradELic | its allright here |
| 16:40.57 | clock_ | AbsTradELic: which one? Gentoo? Debian? |
| 16:41.09 | AbsTradELic | slackware |
| 16:41.29 | clock_ | AbsTradELic: do you know where to put the BRLCAD_PATH or how it's called? |
| 16:41.38 | brlcad | i have several girl friends i know on irc that get "attacked" when they go into channels, quite something I won't tolerate regardless of the gender .. the conversation can always be taken private or to a different channel ;) |
| 16:42.28 | AbsTradELic | can I put it on /etc/rc.d/rc.loal |
| 16:42.30 | AbsTradELic | ? |
| 16:42.30 | clock_ | brlcad: yes but my question is basically a query into the replicator configuration register - the same sort as "are you a girl or a boy"? |
| 16:42.45 | AbsTradELic | *rc.local |
| 16:42.59 | *** join/#brlcad DTRemenak (n=DTRemena@c-24-23-59-104.hsd1.ca.comcast.net) | |
| 16:43.07 | clock_ | AbsTradELic: yes that should work. Put it there, reboot and see if PATH is ammended. |
| 16:43.13 | clock_ | Otherwise put it into your /home/user/.profile |
| 16:43.15 | brlcad | DTRemenak: are you a girl or a boy |
| 16:43.31 | brlcad | clock_: see that's a wierd thing to ask out of the blue too ;) |
| 16:43.33 | clock_ | Try to log into a console and then X Window System. It should be in both. If it isn't you have to tamper with the files until it is |
| 16:43.38 | AbsTradELic | plz, wait me to fine adjusts |
| 16:43.48 | brlcad | just happens that I sort of know DTRemenak fortunately, so it's all in good fun |
| 16:44.18 | DTRemenak | brlcad: ... |
| 16:44.23 | brlcad | heh |
| 16:44.27 | clock_ | DTRemenak: your name sounds Czech |
| 16:44.37 | DTRemenak | clock_: close...anglicized polish |
| 16:45.22 | clock_ | brlcad: OK if asking about boy and girl is weird, then fully accept. Mea culpa. |
| 16:45.45 | clock_ | AbsTrAWAY: sorry if my question caused you a mental block or something like that |
| 16:46.01 | ValarQ | IriX64: i run irssi on my computer |
| 16:46.48 | ValarQ | IriX64: AMD64 X2 with Gentoo GNU/Linux |
| 16:47.05 | brlcad | DTRemenak: heh, a_delusion comes to mind for some reason |
| 16:47.22 | IriX64 | does it ask for confirm on paste attempt ValarQ? |
| 16:47.38 | DTRemenak | heh |
| 16:47.46 | brlcad | clock_: no big deal |
| 16:48.11 | clock_ | brlcad: if I behave this way, people get pissed. If I don't, I can miss some boy |
| 16:48.46 | brlcad | clock_: maybe get to know them first, just a little more slowly ;) |
| 16:48.57 | IriX64 | arithimetic-shift-left-shift-right 102 why ``Erik? |
| 16:49.05 | clock_ | For a gay gue probably even a worse nightmare than being buried alive :) |
| 16:49.19 | ``Erik | book two of the brlcad manual, 'introduction to mged' |
| 16:49.50 | clock_ | brlcad: yes I could lose them because of recoil, that makes sense |
| 16:49.55 | ValarQ | IriX64: yeah, i don't know how it works thought |
| 16:50.59 | IriX64 | ValarQ: thanks. :( mine no longer does. |
| 16:51.26 | IriX64 | ahhh well call it a feature, no nag :) |
| 16:51.34 | ValarQ | IriX64: it might depend on the terminal used |
| 16:51.36 | clock_ | brlcad: AbsTrAWAY basically needs to install either binary or source, and then set the PATH, is it right? |
| 16:51.55 | IriX64 | bash is a terminal ;) |
| 16:52.05 | ValarQ | IriX64: no, it isn't |
| 16:52.07 | ``Erik | bash is a shell, a terminal is a terminal |
| 16:52.25 | IriX64 | still talks to the shell. |
| 16:52.46 | ValarQ | IriX64: the apps doesn't |
| 16:52.54 | IriX64 | so where does the terminal beging and the shell end :) |
| 16:53.04 | IriX64 | begin |
| 16:53.09 | AbsTradELic | ok... PATH environment adjusted |
| 16:53.22 | AbsTradELic | /usr/brlcad/bin |
| 16:53.25 | AbsTradELic | added |
| 16:53.27 | clock_ | AbsTradELic: cool try to type mged do some windows pop up? |
| 16:53.41 | IriX64 | you could just have changed dir to /usr/brlcad/bin and done a ./mged |
| 16:53.42 | ValarQ | IriX64: a shell only interprets commands |
| 16:53.50 | clock_ | AbsTradELic: 2 windows should pop up |
| 16:54.12 | brlcad | clock_: technically don't need to set PATH either, but then you have to type /usr/brlcad/bin/mged instead of just mged |
| 16:54.29 | clock_ | brlcad: does it find it's own files then? |
| 16:54.29 | brlcad | yes |
| 16:54.31 | IriX64 | ValarQ: and a terminal does nothing but communicate with the shell or app. |
| 16:54.48 | ``Erik | *grouse* this book does not tell me what I want to know. I must whup up on lee when he gets back for this... |
| 16:55.03 | ValarQ | IriX64: quite true, but the app doesn't talk very much with the shell |
| 16:55.07 | IriX64 | ``Erik, try the bibel :) |
| 16:55.29 | IriX64 | ValarQ: like make ;) |
| 16:55.35 | IriX64 | bible too. |
| 16:56.33 | IriX64 | my vucom1 is on the fritz :) |
| 16:57.41 | AbsTradELic | appear |
| 16:58.03 | AbsTradELic | 2 window pop up |
| 16:58.20 | AbsTradELic | command window and graphic window |
| 17:01.52 | AbsTradELic | ok |
| 17:02.08 | clock_ | AbsTradELic: wget http://ronja.twibright.com/3d/railing.g |
| 17:02.11 | clock_ | AbsTradELic: mged railing.g |
| 17:02.15 | clock_ | in mged type B railing |
| 17:02.25 | clock_ | (without the word type) |
| 17:02.57 | clock_ | AbsTradELic: you should see an image of some engineering crap |
| 17:03.21 | brlcad | heh :) |
| 17:03.25 | AbsTradELic | ok |
| 17:03.35 | AbsTradELic | just a few |
| 17:03.35 | clock_ | brlcad: if I type rt the whole screen blanks for a while and then it returns and nothing is raytraced |
| 17:03.46 | clock_ | brlcad: I have OpenBSD 3.9 |
| 17:03.59 | brlcad | there are also a lot of simple example geometry databases installed in /usr/brlcad/share/brlcad/7.8.0/db/ |
| 17:04.19 | brlcad | clock_: hmm.. X11 display depth bug |
| 17:04.28 | brlcad | clock_: try "rt -F/dev/Xl" instead |
| 17:04.29 | clock_ | brlcad: bug of X or brlcad? |
| 17:04.36 | brlcad | both |
| 17:05.13 | brlcad | and that's ex-ell, not ex-one |
| 17:05.14 | clock_ | brlcad: lol works |
| 17:05.25 | AbsTradELic | clock_: ops, problem... I dont see nothing |
| 17:05.40 | clock_ | AbsTradELic: not eve wire frame? |
| 17:05.51 | AbsTradELic | nothing |
| 17:05.53 | clock_ | AbsTradELic: do you have file railing.g? |
| 17:05.54 | brlcad | so, something wrong with the opengl interface on your system.. it's not a new problem, saw it years ago but haven't seen it since to debug it |
| 17:06.04 | AbsTradELic | clock_: yes |
| 17:06.16 | clock_ | AbsTradELic: and you typed B railing in mged? |
| 17:06.36 | AbsTradELic | mged railling.g |
| 17:06.45 | clock_ | AbsTradELic: but in mged you have to type B railing |
| 17:06.47 | clock_ | that draws the thing |
| 17:07.02 | AbsTradELic | huM! |
| 17:07.04 | brlcad | B is the "delete everything else and draw" command |
| 17:07.11 | brlcad | e is the simple draw command |
| 17:07.12 | AbsTradELic | just a few |
| 17:07.33 | brlcad | there's also a draw command (equivalent to e) |
| 17:07.46 | clock_ | brlcad: yes but I am a lamer so I don't know that |
| 17:08.02 | brlcad | "tops" will tell you what top-level geometry are in the file hierarchy that are likely of interest |
| 17:08.22 | brlcad | since brl-cad's .g files are not necessarily 1-model per file |
| 17:08.27 | AbsTradELic | clock_: Now I see |
| 17:08.31 | AbsTradELic | I'm seeing |
| 17:08.34 | clock_ | AbsTradELic: so you have working brlcad |
| 17:08.46 | AbsTradELic | clock_: ;) |
| 17:08.51 | AbsTradELic | ok |
| 17:09.00 | brlcad | AbsTradELic: this may be of help: http://ftp.brlcad.org/MGED_Quick_Reference_Card.pdf |
| 17:10.02 | clock_ | brlcad: oh that's terrific who made it? He should get a Nobel Prize for a Reference Card |
| 17:10.02 | AbsTradELic | ok... downloading |
| 17:10.24 | AbsTradELic | download completed |
| 17:10.40 | brlcad | clock_: second page, at the bottom |
| 17:11.01 | brlcad | technically, back of the first page, it's meant to be printed on heavy glossy stock paper |
| 17:11.07 | brlcad | double-sided |
| 17:11.30 | brlcad | there's also http://ftp.brlcad.org/MGED_Quick_Reference_Trifold_Card.pdf for folks that want to fold it up |
| 17:11.30 | ``Erik | brlcad: mged interface wise, should I be looking at 'pipe'? or is there a better one to look at? |
| 17:11.47 | brlcad | ``Erik: pipe's probably a good one |
| 17:12.18 | brlcad | especially given it's variable arguments too |
| 17:12.45 | ``Erik | that's exactly what I'm looking for... jason said bot's don't have ui interface, and sketch is horrible, so pipe is the best for that feature... |
| 17:12.58 | ``Erik | so'z I'm seein' if that's right or if there's a better one :) |
| 17:13.04 | brlcad | probably not |
| 17:13.14 | brlcad | i mean, probably not a better one .. |
| 17:13.26 | ``Erik | ok, now for the dangerous question... are there docs on pipe? :D |
| 17:13.48 | brlcad | yeah, pipe is covered in the advanced tutorial (vol III iirc) |
| 17:14.19 | brlcad | otherwise, rtfs ;) |
| 17:14.26 | clock_ | brlcad: actually I think I already once asked about a screw, didn't I? |
| 17:14.55 | brlcad | clock_: i believe you did, though the details pass me |
| 17:15.13 | clock_ | brlcad: me too, unfortunately ;-) |
| 17:15.15 | brlcad | i think it was a curvature on curvature problem, which isn't easily done |
| 17:15.36 | brlcad | unless you mean threading on a non-tapering bolt.. that's somewhat tractable |
| 17:15.40 | clock_ | you said something about half toroids or something like that |
| 17:15.48 | clock_ | yes non tapering |
| 17:16.25 | brlcad | yeah, pattern tool would certainly help |
| 17:16.35 | AbsTradELic | to render it ? |
| 17:16.35 | brlcad | a linear repeat up a cylinder |
| 17:17.02 | brlcad | AbsTradELic: File->Raytrace Control Panel or simply type "rt -F/dev/Xl" in the command window |
| 17:18.27 | brlcad | ``Erik: dwayne is a demigod when it comes to using pipes if you want some really useful interactive face-time |
| 17:18.58 | brlcad | pretty efficient with them |
| 17:19.04 | ``Erik | just need a rough idea of the interface... but if I'm stuck goin' 'huhh?', I'll wander over |
| 17:19.54 | clock_ | O.o |
| 17:19.57 | brlcad | i'd worry about getting the typein interface done first .. that will at least get you going |
| 17:21.07 | AbsTradELic | ok |
| 17:22.41 | AbsTradELic | and the project age ? |
| 17:23.19 | clock_ | AbsTradELic: 25+ |
| 17:23.32 | clock_ | AbsTradELic: developed by US Army |
| 17:24.01 | AbsTradELic | 25 years ? |
| 17:24.09 | clock_ | yes |
| 17:24.13 | clock_ | brlcad: how much is it actually? |
| 17:24.19 | ``Erik | '79, yo |
| 17:25.07 | ``Erik | http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Brlcad |
| 17:25.08 | AbsTradELic | and the source opened ? |
| 17:25.40 | ``Erik | late '04 |
| 17:27.47 | brlcad | project started in '79, first release was circa '83/'84 |
| 17:28.04 | brlcad | open-sourced on the day before christmas eve, 2004 |
| 17:28.15 | clock_ | brlcad: xmas gift? |
| 17:28.27 | brlcad | of sorts :) |
| 17:28.35 | clock_ | brlcad: that's brutal to opensource such a huge thing :) |
| 17:29.00 | brlcad | it took years of finagling, meetings, discussions, legalities, technicalities |
| 17:29.13 | brlcad | almost five years actually |
| 17:29.23 | clock_ | brlcad: working with BRL-CAD that's a great feeling compared to all those other modeller things |
| 17:30.03 | brlcad | it's a great codebase, even if the mged modeler is not so great |
| 17:30.21 | clock_ | like if a surfer was given duke kahanamoku's board :) |
| 17:30.26 | brlcad | oh, i'm not identified.. |
| 17:30.41 | brlcad | damn splits |
| 17:31.42 | AbsTradELic | brlcad work fine with arquiteture projects ? |
| 17:31.43 | clock_ | brlcad: big codebase that doesn't bloat the system |
| 17:31.54 | brlcad | AbsTradELic: sure should |
| 17:32.25 | AbsTradELic | construction architeture projects ? |
| 17:32.37 | brlcad | clock_: yeah.. that's one thing, there's a definite lack of code bloat even for it's massive size .. maybe a hint of command-bloat, but there was generally a need for all of them |
| 17:33.08 | clock_ | brlcad: I don't have problem with the commands |
| 17:33.23 | brlcad | AbsTradELic: it has been used in several architecture projects in the past .. though one thing it does not do that's worth mentioning in advance is drafting |
| 17:33.39 | brlcad | i.e. you're not going to get dimensioned blue-prints out of it - wasn't designed for that |
| 17:33.55 | brlcad | clock_: have you used more than mged and rt? :) |
| 17:33.58 | brlcad | and rtedge.. |
| 17:34.04 | ValarQ | thats the biggest drawback |
| 17:34.36 | clock_ | brlcad: yes, rtweight |
| 17:34.44 | brlcad | yeah, everyone sees cad and expects autocad, not realizing that's just one of about five major niche markets (although drafting is the biggest) |
| 17:34.57 | brlcad | clock_: so .. only 396 to go ;) |
| 17:35.01 | ValarQ | is it possible to store ortographic views in brlcad? |
| 17:35.26 | brlcad | you can save/load arbitrary views using the saveview/loadview commands |
| 17:35.42 | ValarQ | is it stored in the database then? |
| 17:35.54 | brlcad | those can be stashed into the .g file, but there's no formality for getting mged to recognize them there yet |
| 17:36.03 | brlcad | normally they are simply stashed in outboard files |
| 17:36.06 | ValarQ | mged isn't important |
| 17:36.33 | brlcad | but *any* file can be stashed into the .g as an object (binunif) |
| 17:36.52 | ValarQ | oh, ok |
| 17:36.55 | clock_ | brlcad: I think it would be OK if brlcad could export the lines from given orthographics projection like DXF |
| 17:37.04 | clock_ | one could add the dimensions himself in a CAD |
| 17:37.26 | ValarQ | would be nice to have dimensions stored under the view and having rtedge ploting them |
| 17:37.40 | ``Erik | wow, that is one horrible interface o.O :D |
| 17:37.41 | archivist | clock_ not poductive that way |
| 17:37.43 | brlcad | clock_: yes, it seems to be the requested feature of this year |
| 17:37.54 | archivist | productive |
| 17:38.50 | brlcad | it wouldn't be hard (read more than a couple months effort) at all to add a 2D overlay primitive similar to the sketch object for representing annotations, dimensions, and lines, etc |
| 17:39.22 | brlcad | the problem is more a gui then for creating/manipulating those features, and if they're dimensions -- a means to compute them and keep them up to date preferably |
| 17:40.16 | ValarQ | brlcad: shouldn't they also be dependent on a view to be placed or plotted? |
| 17:40.45 | brlcad | there are uses for both dependant and independant |
| 17:40.56 | ValarQ | brlcad: otherwise it could be tricky to know where the dimension really are |
| 17:41.06 | brlcad | though independant is actually quite harder (staying fixed to the projection they're being looked at from) |
| 17:42.06 | brlcad | ValarQ: as long as perspective mode is turned off, it's fairly easy to compute -- you can take a view-aligned bounding box's width for example |
| 17:42.47 | ValarQ | brlcad: isn't that the wrong way to measure? |
| 17:42.50 | archivist | hmm dimensions should not be affected by view |
| 17:43.16 | brlcad | the difficulty in general of commputing *any* of the dimensions, though is that it requires evaluation of the implicit form (expensive) or seamless transition to an explicit form (e.g. brep nurbs) |
| 17:43.28 | ValarQ | well, in my head they should be affected by a view, but only one view, one that doesn't change |
| 17:43.38 | brlcad | ValarQ: not if it's a tight-fit and you're dimensioning orthogonal |
| 17:44.01 | brlcad | it really depends what it is that you are trying to dimension |
| 17:44.35 | brlcad | for some random subpiece of a subassembly, no that wouldn't work so well if you couldn't specify the whole subassembly/combination |
| 17:44.36 | ValarQ | how should you store the dimension? |
| 17:45.25 | brlcad | as a dimension object type in the database (the 2D overlay primitive I referred to) |
| 17:45.55 | brlcad | can have attributes tying it to the original, constraints attributes for optionally keeping it up to date, etc |
| 17:46.03 | archivist | should they be atached to the skect primatives |
| 17:46.12 | archivist | sketch |
| 17:46.12 | ValarQ | yeah |
| 17:46.27 | ValarQ | have you used the sketch function in pro/engineer? |
| 17:46.47 | archivist | Im a solidworks person |
| 17:46.55 | brlcad | sketch primitive would not be my first choice, simply because they require shape closure, have a defined 2D inside and outside |
| 17:47.11 | brlcad | i have used sketch in pro/e, though it was a couple years back now |
| 17:47.47 | brlcad | it could certainly be an attribute of a sketch, though, or reference a sketch if it were an object itself |
| 17:48.06 | brlcad | mind you i'm talking about the implementation, not whatever the user interface chose to present it as |
| 17:48.35 | ValarQ | brlcad: me too |
| 17:48.37 | brlcad | the user interface could very well "show" a dimension tied to a sketch object.. that's regardless |
| 17:49.46 | archivist | tied to or driving |
| 18:05.57 | ``Erik | oh, neat, mged -c is 'more awesomer' |
| 18:08.55 | clock_ | is there man mged? |
| 18:12.14 | ``Erik | clock_: yes, add /usr/brlcad/man to your MANPATH |
| 18:16.00 | clock_ | ``Erik: I think the brlcad didn't say that at the end. |
| 18:26.31 | ``Erik | pipe_in... eck |
| 19:05.04 | ``Erik | I must be hungry, I'm gettin' dizzy :/ |
| 19:19.10 | ``Erik | sean, why does pipeseg have a magic value defined and no field for magic? |
| 19:19.21 | ``Erik | wdb.h:120 |
| 19:21.11 | CIA-9 | BRL-CAD: 03erikgreenwald * 10brlcad/include/ (rtgeom.h wdb.h): store metaball control points in a bu_list of structs instead of an array of homogenous vectors |
| 19:32.34 | CIA-9 | BRL-CAD: 03erikgreenwald * 10brlcad/src/mged/typein.c: Initial metaball parser (heavily based on pipes) and minor cleanup. |
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| 20:54.53 | AbsTradELic | hi |
| 20:55.43 | ValarQ | hiya |
| 21:06.38 | AbsTradELic | I'll come back |
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| 21:18.31 | AbsTradELic | ok |
| 21:22.05 | AbsTradELic | hi all ! |
| 21:23.29 | AbsTradELic | to have a compreensive view of project, I need something informations |
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| 00:35.12 | CIA-9 | BRL-CAD: 03erikgreenwald * 10brlcad/src/mged/typein.c: fixed a minor issue with the metaball interactive prompt |
| 01:49.37 | brlcad | ``Erik: that structure is a list element -- part of how libbu does list structures is by embedding the list structure as the first element as utilizing aliasing |
| 01:50.07 | brlcad | in this case, bu_list structures have a magic, which is what wdb_pipept is using since it's a list element |
| 01:50.58 | brlcad | and not a isolated structure in the case of the rt_pipe_internal (which has it's own magic as the first element more visibly) |
| 01:57.12 | brlcad | note that the bu_list trick is only used on actual list node elements, not structs that reference some list as is seen elsewhere |
| 02:03.07 | ``Erik | ohyeah... fergot about that, I knew bu_list had bu_prev and bu_next and did ugly off-sized struct casting |
| 02:03.44 | ``Erik | fergot they stored magic, too |
| 02:03.53 | ``Erik | erm, forw and back, rather |
| 02:12.28 | brlcad | yeah, it's a great C hack that just causes compiler's too much grief :) |
| 02:12.43 | brlcad | C polymorphism |
| 02:13.25 | brlcad | i though about trying to unwide it in brl-cad too so aliasing could be removed.. but that really would be an utterly massive effort |
| 02:18.22 | ``Erik | indeed... heh, I was talking to jason this morning about it |
| 02:18.39 | ``Erik | that plus the heavy macro usage in like vmath makes something like swig... intractable |
| 02:19.34 | brlcad | hrm? what does vmath have to do with swig? |
| 02:20.17 | ``Erik | vmath has lots of macros... |
| 02:20.26 | ``Erik | in order to expose something to swig, it has to be a function, not a macro |
| 02:20.38 | ``Erik | so all that crap in vmath.h cannot be exposed to the scripting language :) |
| 02:21.18 | brlcad | vmath is entirely macros |
| 02:22.04 | brlcad | there are (or at least were) actually functional equivalents of most of the macros in vmath in libbn |
| 02:22.13 | ``Erik | ayup... that's why jason brought it up as the representative problem file... the issue is with macros, not functions... :) |
| 02:22.27 | brlcad | they were just refactored away due to a very clear performance boost |
| 02:23.10 | brlcad | even with compiler inline directives, which sometime's wouldn't, though most of the code preceeds the inline directive by about a decade |
| 02:23.32 | brlcad | vmath is a fairly special case though |
| 02:23.37 | brlcad | not really representative |
| 02:24.19 | brlcad | the vast majority of the librt api isn't macros after all .. so what if scripts have to figure out how to add a vector all by themselves |
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| 19:14.18 | IriX64 | irssi is too cadillacy for me |
| 19:20.13 | ``Erik | so you used ircII, or telnet? |
| 19:25.03 | IriX64 | ermmff galactick communicator :) |
| 19:26.25 | IriX64 | irssi assumes all cygwin environments are the same :) |
| 19:31.33 | IriX64 | heh ``Erik -- both ;) |
| 19:35.33 | IriX64 | hate fargin projects that dont honour --prefix properly. |
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| 19:37.04 | IriX64 | ahh it works now. |
| 19:37.59 | IriX64 | hmph no version reply. |
| 19:41.52 | IriX64 | I'm doing all right, getting good grades, futures so bright, i gotta wear shades. |
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| 22:36.58 | IriX64 | rubes,dudes,dudettes,and rowdies, how's it? |
| 22:38.14 | IriX64 | bb l8r, still having system grief, anybody got a bandaid for my knuckles. :) |
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| 14:07.23 | pra5ad | ./.libs/librt.so: undefined reference to `bn_mat_inverse' |
| 14:08.05 | clock_ | bn_camping_mat_inverse? |
| 14:43.31 | ``Erik | librt not seeing libbn? O.o |
| 14:50.01 | clock_ | O.o |
| 15:28.49 | pra5ad | error from make |
| 15:28.58 | pra5ad | just co'd cvs head |
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| 21:01.14 | pra5ad | quack |
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| 02:19.17 | brlcad | binaries out of date, refresh build and make from start (clean up) |
| 02:56.36 | pra5ad | refresh build? |
| 02:56.48 | pra5ad | that was make from a fresh CO |
| 02:57.22 | pra5ad | but trying make after clean |
| 03:44.28 | brlcad | hmm, could also be side effect of running from improper install or picking up old libs from previous install or LD_LIBRARY_FLAG is set, etc |
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| 08:07.03 | CIA-9 | BRL-CAD: 03d_rossberg * 10brlcad/misc/win32-msvc/Dll/brlcad.dsp: do not use precompiled header files |
| 08:08.02 | CIA-9 | BRL-CAD: 03d_rossberg * 10brlcad/src/libbn/libbn.dsp: do not use precompiled header files |
| 08:09.26 | CIA-9 | BRL-CAD: 03d_rossberg * 10brlcad/src/libbu/libbu.dsp: do not use precompiled header files, - memset.c, + mread.c |
| 08:11.48 | CIA-9 | BRL-CAD: 03d_rossberg * 10brlcad/src/librt/librt.dsp: do not use precompiled header files, + g_metaball.c |
| 08:13.07 | CIA-9 | BRL-CAD: 03d_rossberg * 10brlcad/src/libsysv/libsysv.dsp: do not use precompiled header files, - getopt.c |
| 08:14.29 | CIA-9 | BRL-CAD: 03d_rossberg * 10brlcad/src/libwdb/libwdb.dsp: do not use precompiled header files |
| 08:20.31 | CIA-9 | BRL-CAD: 03d_rossberg * 10brlcad/src/libbu/mread.c: += increments a pointer depending on the size of its basetype but what is the size of void? (MSVC 6.0 error) |
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| 14:15.15 | CIA-9 | BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/libbu/xdr.c: ws |
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| 15:50.55 | CIA-9 | BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/regress/Makefile.am: clean up after the mged_shaders.log |
| 15:55.35 | CIA-9 | BRL-CAD: 03prasad_silva * 10brlcad/ (include/raytrace.h src/librt/db_walk.c): The beginning of a new database traversal framework. |
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| 16:20.03 | ``Erik | me cocks his head |
| 16:20.07 | ``Erik | / even |
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| 17:34.54 | clock_ | How is it actually with all the sun-exposure hysteria? |
| 17:35.40 | archivist | damned hot here and we are outside fixing the car ready for the annual test |
| 17:56.33 | CIA-9 | BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/ (4 files in 4 dirs): consistently use the .pl extension for plot files, not .plot |
| 18:01.19 | clock_ | tofu: do you eat tofu? |
| 18:06.15 | clock_ | tofu: are you eating tofu? |
| 18:47.01 | CIA-9 | BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/doc/Makefile.am: install the pad_file.xml |
| 18:48.07 | CIA-9 | BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/misc/brlcad.spec.in: update the rpm build spec file using more configure autoconf variables instead of in-lining everything. use the right url for downloads too. |
| 18:48.27 | brlcad | i wish |
| 18:53.57 | CIA-9 | BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/misc/Makefile.am: simple reorder |
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| 23:01.34 | traffic_hazard | good afternoon |
| 23:02.10 | traffic_hazard | anyone know of a good source for BRL CAD documentation? |
| 23:02.10 | brlcad | cheers |
| 23:02.30 | brlcad | http://brlcad.org has several documents that may be of interest |
| 23:02.46 | traffic_hazard | I'll have to take another look there |
| 23:03.09 | brlcad | in particular, the brief overview, the introduction to mged volume II, the MGED Quick Reference sheet, the Principles of modeling volume III |
| 23:03.23 | traffic_hazard | Thank you |
| 23:03.38 | brlcad | those are a starting point for seeing some of the capabilities and limitations |
| 23:04.01 | brlcad | if you're a dev, there's plenty more documentation for jumping in and getting started with something |
| 23:05.36 | traffic_hazard | Thank you much. Those should get me started :-) |
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| 20:14.47 | ``Erik | ho hum |
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| 23:31.16 | *** topic/#brlcad is http://brlcad.org/ || BRL-CAD is an open source solid modeling software suite || Developers needed! Read the HACKING file for details on getting involved | |
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| 04:16.15 | job | # nickname Le.S.Eohn |
| 04:16.27 | fenn | try /nick |
| 04:17.01 | job | sorry, thank's |
| 04:20.32 | Lyon | Brlcad currently find Handbook is difficulty think |
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| 04:46.01 | job | Hi,all to wake up |
| 04:50.03 | job | who ,to supply can me brlcad handbook's |
| 04:55.52 | job | hi,brlcad you are is uplink's ? |
| 04:58.16 | job | bye |
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| 13:12.06 | ``Erik | heh |
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| 15:05.49 | ``Erik | a/nop |
| 15:45.49 | CIA-9 | BRL-CAD: 03erikgreenwald * 10brlcad/src/librt/table.c: point to the v5 export/import, not v4... |
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| 17:07.37 | CIA-9 | BRL-CAD: 03erikgreenwald * 10brlcad/src/mged/typein.c: metaball: minor cleanup, and save threshhold to struct |
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| 18:50.34 | CIA-9 | BRL-CAD: 03erikgreenwald * 10brlcad/src/librt/g_metaball.c: v5 import/export implemented. Removed v4 stubs. Made all stubs log. |
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| 19:30.13 | CIA-9 | BRL-CAD: 03erikgreenwald * 10brlcad/src/librt/g_metaball.c: minor bugfix, implemented "describe" and "ifree" |
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| 10:58.38 | matt_ezeki_230 | hi guys... i wonder if there is a way to show hidden lines of a solid model after raytrace with command rtedge -W -s1024 as broken lines |
| 11:15.49 | brlcad | matt_ezeki_230: it'd be easy enough to show the hidden lines.. though rendering to a particular style of "broken" or dashed lines would probably be tricky |
| 11:17.21 | brlcad | probably doable as a probabalistic speckled line (e.g. randomly don't draw N% of the hidden line pixels) |
| 11:17.39 | brlcad | not as nice as hard dashes, but would probably get the point across |
| 11:31.27 | matt_ezeki_230 | brlcad: ok thanks... could i ask to you which command in command window or option need i to set to show hidden raytraced lines as speckled lines? |
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| 13:38.04 | matt_ezeki_230 | i tried your method but i was still unable to show hidden lines as speckled lines. Let my explain the issue with an exemple: |
| 13:38.17 | matt_ezeki_230 | 1) in a.s rcc 0 0 -2 0 0 4 1 |
| 13:38.21 | matt_ezeki_230 | 2) in b.s rcc 0 -2 0 0 4 0 1 |
| 13:38.25 | matt_ezeki_230 | and i need to show hidden lines of the both cylinders after raytracing. |
| 13:38.34 | matt_ezeki_230 | Because file "http://ftp.brlcad.org/MGED_Quick_Reference_Trifold_Card.pdf" says "raytrace white background hidden-line image -> rtedge -W -o file.pix", i wonder if i've understood properly: |
| 13:38.50 | matt_ezeki_230 | hidden lines can be showed as speckled lines or hard dashes lines with the ONLY following command |
| 13:38.54 | matt_ezeki_230 | 3) rtedge -W -s1024 -o file.pix |
| 13:39.00 | matt_ezeki_230 | ? |
| 13:44.20 | clock_ | matt_ezeki_230: can you show hidden lines with rtedge? |
| 13:45.34 | matt_ezeki_230 | no i can't. i'm here just to know if is it possible with rtedge or other ways... |
| 13:46.48 | matt_ezeki_230 | brlcad says "it'd be easy enough to show the hidden lines...probably doable as a probabalistic speckled line (e.g. randomly don't draw N% of the hidden line pixels)..." |
| 13:47.24 | matt_ezeki_230 | but i have any idea to do his method |
| 14:08.32 | brlcad | matt_ezeki_230: I said it would be "doable" to implement/add such a feature to rtedge, not that it exists right now |
| 14:08.58 | brlcad | what you can do with it now is do a multi-pass composite |
| 14:10.19 | clock_ | brlcad: or make a multipass and make the invisible edges with a grey shade |
| 14:10.33 | clock_ | brlcad: how do you do multipass? Make another view from the other side and then mirror it? |
| 14:10.39 | brlcad | either overlaying the wireframe image (which shows the hidden lines) with an rtedge raytrace |
| 14:10.46 | brlcad | or using two rtedge passes |
| 14:12.08 | brlcad | clock_: doesn't have to be from the other side, rtedge understands a bunch of options that make it show more/fewer edges |
| 14:12.27 | clock_ | brlcad: cool |
| 14:12.37 | clock_ | --show-more-edges --show-even-more-edges :) |
| 14:12.48 | clock_ | --i-said-i-want-more-edges! |
| 14:13.02 | brlcad | for example, matt_ezeki_230, you might want to try the "detect regions" flag that will draw hidden edges on region boundaries if you've correctly created parts/assemblies (i.e. regions and groups) |
| 14:13.07 | brlcad | close :) |
| 14:13.16 | brlcad | -c"set detect_regions=1" ;) |
| 14:13.20 | clock_ | brlcad: today I am going into the surf course again :) |
| 14:16.02 | brlcad | also has -c"set overlaymode=1" for multipass rtedgings, but I suspect the best way will be to save the mged wireframe to an image and composite it over |
| 14:16.29 | brlcad | clock_: cool, where abouts? |
| 14:16.46 | clock_ | brlcad: I don't understand now what you mean |
| 14:17.11 | brlcad | where are you surfing? |
| 14:18.33 | clock_ | brlcad: on Zurich lake. But there are no waves. Only paddling training |
| 14:18.39 | clock_ | brlcad: do you swim front crawl? |
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| 14:35.24 | brlcad | clock_: not sure what that means |
| 14:35.30 | brlcad | hello rossberg! |
| 14:36.18 | brlcad | rossberg: you were quite a topic of discussion recently .. |
| 14:36.49 | rossberg | brlcad: really? |
| 14:37.05 | brlcad | yeah, at the annual STMG and MEVA meetings |
| 14:37.53 | brlcad | some discussion on your windows brl-cad geometry viewer |
| 14:38.11 | rossberg | ah, there was a meeting. interesting |
| 14:38.19 | brlcad | and on a bunker model |
| 14:38.32 | brlcad | yeah, every year |
| 14:38.35 | rossberg | in september there will a meeting at the iabg |
| 14:39.27 | rossberg | the bunker isn't from me (the model), but i made colculations with it |
| 14:39.45 | clock_ | brlcad: I mean you lie on the face and paddle with your hands and you swim this way. The fastest swimming style known. |
| 14:41.39 | *** mode/#brlcad [+o brlcad] by ChanServ | |
| 14:42.36 | brlcad | clock_: how else would you do it?? |
| 14:44.44 | clock_ | brlcad: :) |
| 14:45.02 | clock_ | brlcad: for example breastroke |
| 14:57.15 | brlcad | with a surfboard?? :) |
| 14:57.55 | clock_ | brlcad: no just with the body, swimming |
| 15:01.23 | brlcad | ahh |
| 15:01.38 | brlcad | usually freestyle or backstroke |
| 15:22.13 | matt_ezeki_230 | brlcad: thanks for your answers. Unfortunately i'm a beginner user of brlcad and i've any idea of what a multi-pass composite is. Furthermore i've found anything about detect regions flag and -c"set detect_regions=1" command in MGED_Quick_Ref, VolumeII... and VolumeIII... docs |
| 15:24.15 | matt_ezeki_230 | Please, could you give me an example of use to create parts/assemblies correctly using "detect regions" flag? thanks in advance |
| 16:27.04 | matt_ezeki_230 | are you still here ? :-) |
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| 23:00.20 | ``Erik | sean, ya busy? |
| 23:05.30 | brlcad | always |
| 23:08.13 | ``Erik | got a librt question if you're in the mood |
| 23:09.10 | ``Erik | got 'prep' and something in the shot func, but when I pull the trigger, shoot.c throws an oops, the ray origin is 'bad', with big honkin' numbers (like Xe40)... what'd I fuck up? |
| 23:10.03 | brlcad | you have to set up the ray in the app structure before you first |
| 23:10.07 | brlcad | s/first/fire/ |
| 23:10.21 | ``Erik | hm, I'm not doing an app, this is bin/rt |
| 23:10.33 | brlcad | look at src/rt/rtexample.c as a reference, notice how it sets: |
| 23:10.33 | brlcad | <PROTECTED> |
| 23:10.33 | brlcad | <PROTECTED> |
| 23:10.53 | brlcad | what do you mean then that you "pull the trigger"? |
| 23:11.18 | ``Erik | well, I got a .g file with a toplevel metaball called "ball" and I run /usr/brlcad/bin/rt /tmp/poo.g ball |
| 23:11.19 | brlcad | the shot routine eventually gets passed that a_ray at some point |
| 23:11.39 | brlcad | at lease the shot routine gets a ray from somewhere, and it has to be "valid" |
| 23:11.46 | ``Erik | ALL I've done to the file is "title metaballs" "units mm" "in ball metaball (lots of numbers)" |
| 23:11.54 | brlcad | ahhh |
| 23:12.21 | brlcad | shot func sounds screwed up |
| 23:12.39 | ``Erik | mine? all mine does at the moment is a bu_log ... which does NOT display |
| 23:13.18 | ``Erik | are you in tomorrow? |
| 23:13.20 | brlcad | and returns 1? |
| 23:13.27 | ``Erik | um, returns 0 I believe |
| 23:13.31 | brlcad | hmm |
| 23:13.59 | ``Erik | but since it never prints the bu_log string, I assume the return value is irrelevant |
| 23:14.14 | brlcad | ahh, it doesn't get that far? |
| 23:14.18 | ``Erik | newp |
| 23:14.51 | ``Erik | if you're in office tomorrow, I'll show you the code and output... I'm still trying to get my feet under me wrt brlcad source... :) |
| 23:15.09 | brlcad | then it's got to be prep work |
| 23:15.15 | brlcad | i'm in for half-day |
| 23:15.19 | brlcad | so good luck.. |
| 23:15.27 | ``Erik | all I do in prep is set a couple bounding spheres... |
| 23:15.38 | brlcad | yeah, have to set the bounding spheres and the bounding boxes |
| 23:15.44 | ``Erik | oh, the box as well? |
| 23:15.45 | brlcad | it "should" all be soltab stuff |
| 23:15.51 | brlcad | yeah, has to set min/max |
| 23:15.52 | ``Erik | the, um, max/min or the later one? |
| 23:16.03 | brlcad | st_min[X/Y/Z] and st_max |
| 23:16.10 | ``Erik | okie, I'll hack something into that and see if I can get my shot function to kick... |
| 23:16.26 | ``Erik | tomorrie... now it's time to cook and drink and watch tv, w00t |
| 23:16.28 | ``Erik | thanks :) |
| 23:17.38 | brlcad | should set st_center, st_aradius, st_bradius, st_specific, st_min, and st_max |
| 23:20.07 | ``Erik | ok, I only did the first three... what's st_specific? |
| 23:20.12 | ``Erik | min/max being aabb coords? |
| 23:20.59 | ``Erik | is st_specific the bu_list for 'render ready' crap? |
| 23:25.00 | brlcad | st_specific isn't probably necessary, but that'd be your in-memory prep'd data holding things like precomputed values that are useful for any ray |
| 23:25.29 | brlcad | it's basically a void * to whatever the hell you want |
| 23:25.56 | brlcad | and yeah, min/max are the aabb |
| 23:26.41 | brlcad | that's probably what it's crappingg on, it's probably some inf or inverted box or random vals, so when it translates a ray to the start or other side, it goes whack |
| 23:27.36 | ``Erik | okie |
| 23:27.54 | ``Erik | at the moment, I'm not sure I see anything that can effectively be precomputed |
| 23:28.16 | ``Erik | so I'll leave that one blank, do the aabb, see if I can't get a trivial 'walking' ray... |
| 23:28.35 | ``Erik | I may be harrassin' ya next tuesday... :) |
| 23:29.05 | ``Erik | (sorry, a few yrs ago, I woulda been all about chugging this out over the weekend, but I'm broken and embittered given my previous... assignment...) |
| 23:32.53 | brlcad | sad sad .. :) |
| 23:33.04 | brlcad | that's sweet code to poke on |
| 23:34.44 | brlcad | i think i enjoy working on primitives more than most of the rest of the codebase.. it's nice and fundamental, math intensive, and you get to see pretty stuff when it all finally works |
| 23:35.02 | brlcad | the boolean weaver is fun too, but you don't get that visual |
| 23:44.21 | ``Erik | *shrug* I showed up, wrote a build system, fixed geoffs lserver, and was slammed into muves3 |
| 23:44.32 | ``Erik | I didn't really get the opportunity to learn much about brlcad |
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| 03:15.29 | pra5ad | ah forgot to forward the response from john hable (of csg on gpus fame) |
| 03:16.18 | brlcad | well, skip to it |
| 03:16.36 | pra5ad | ill do it tomorrow |
| 03:16.40 | pra5ad | zzzzz |
| 03:16.45 | brlcad | wuss |
| 03:16.46 | brlcad | :) |
| 03:18.13 | brlcad | have to get up in 4 hours only to then row for 2 hours followed by a half hour bike ride |
| 03:28.01 | iday | depends on your point of view |
| 03:28.19 | iday | you better be getting to sleep then |
| 11:39.01 | CIA-8 | BRL-CAD: 03d_rossberg * 10brlcad/include/raytrace.h: Always compile the fastgen4 import stuff. (bob1961) |
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| 13:57.40 | brlcad | command="/home" |
| 14:06.50 | ``Erik | o.O |
| 14:08.04 | ``Erik | sean, the st_min/st_max fixed it... thanks |
| 14:09.02 | brlcad | np |
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| 19:25.04 | brlcad | g0t b0ef? |
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| 03:31.32 | IriX64 | 3 days later... and im still reconstructing my system. |
| 03:33.14 | IriX64 | sorry man had no idea. |
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| 16:17.01 | ValarQ | IriX64: crashed raid array? |
| 16:17.44 | IriX64 | entire cliuster ;) |
| 16:18.05 | IriX64 | BRL-CAD Release 10.0.0, Build 20060722 |
| 16:18.05 | IriX64 | <PROTECTED> |
| 16:18.05 | IriX64 | <PROTECTED> |
| 16:18.05 | IriX64 | Configuration files: /usr/linuxbrlcad/etc |
| 16:18.06 | IriX64 | <PROTECTED> |
| 16:18.08 | IriX64 | CC = gcc |
| 16:18.10 | IriX64 | CFLAGS = -pipe -fno-strict-aliasing -fno-common -O3 |
| 16:18.13 | IriX64 | CPPFLAGS = -I/usr/X11R6/include -I$(top_srcdir)/include |
| 16:18.15 | IriX64 | LDFLAGS = -L/usr/X11R6/lib -L/usr/local/lib -pipe -fno-strict-aliasing -fno-com |
| 16:18.18 | IriX64 | mon -O3 |
| 16:18.20 | IriX64 | LIBS = |
| 16:18.23 | IriX64 | Build Tcl ............................: yes |
| 16:18.25 | IriX64 | Build Tk .............................: yes |
| 16:18.28 | IriX64 | Build Itcl/Itk .......................: yes |
| 16:18.30 | IriX64 | Build IWidgets .......................: yes |
| 16:18.33 | IriX64 | Build BLT ............................: yes |
| 16:18.35 | IriX64 | Build tkImg ..........................: yes |
| 16:18.38 | IriX64 | Build libpng .........................: yes |
| 16:18.40 | IriX64 | Build libregex .......................: yes |
| 16:18.43 | IriX64 | Build zlib ...........................: yes |
| 16:18.45 | IriX64 | Build termlib ........................: yes |
| 16:18.49 | IriX64 | so you know im working on something :) |
| 16:19.56 | IriX64 | want to see the rest of it? |
| 16:20.15 | IriX64 | have to wait a bit its installing now. |
| 16:21.52 | ValarQ | whats with all the pasting? |
| 16:22.04 | IriX64 | i cant type fast. |
| 16:22.24 | IriX64 | and i want you to know im not a geek. |
| 16:22.29 | fenn | we dont really need to see your compile logs |
| 16:22.44 | IriX64 | thats just the summary. |
| 16:22.49 | fenn | over and over again |
| 16:22.51 | IriX64 | of configure. |
| 16:23.07 | IriX64 | ill refrain from further pasting. |
| 16:24.02 | fenn | thank you |
| 16:24.13 | IriX64 | your welcome. |
| 16:25.10 | IriX64 | can't wait to see mged again, ive missed her :) |
| 16:29.19 | IriX64 | you offer --prefix= but your code expects /usr/brlcad, why ? |
| 16:31.26 | ``Erik | if you use --prefix, it expects the prefix you gave it... if you don't, it defaults to /usr/brlcad/ |
| 16:32.49 | IriX64 | i used --prefix=/usr/linuxbrlcad it installed but mged complained on startup. |
| 16:33.09 | ``Erik | were you running the right mged? |
| 16:33.10 | IriX64 | so i renamed the directory brlcad and it came up. |
| 16:33.20 | IriX64 | theres only one mged |
| 16:33.28 | ``Erik | did you have old build files sitting around? |
| 16:33.29 | IriX64 | the one in bin. |
| 16:33.34 | IriX64 | no |
| 16:34.18 | IriX64 | hey want my shot summary of havoc :) |
| 16:34.54 | IriX64 | ermmfff how would i paste it? |
| 16:35.09 | IriX64 | may i try, might help me out here. |
| 16:35.29 | IriX64 | never mind ill join a dummy channel. |
| 16:37.18 | IriX64 | worked |
| 16:42.31 | IriX64 | 12 fps, not bad. |
| 16:44.24 | IriX64 | should send you the plot or postscript file of this, youll crap your pants. |
| 16:46.40 | IriX64 | harrmphh, tried to sent it to a plot file and everything shutdown. |
| 16:48.56 | IriX64 | havoc.plot whowants it? |
| 16:53.02 | IriX64 | havoc.sh too. |
| 16:58.34 | IriX64 | source lower right view destination lower left view sweetest picture ive ever seen. |
| 17:00.09 | IriX64 | Requesting 16 cpus, only 1 available. Will use 1. |
| 17:00.16 | IriX64 | :) |
| 17:01.15 | IriX64 | smoke break... work wait, but don't go away :) |
| 17:08.31 | *** part/#brlcad dan_falck (n=danfalck@pool-71-111-76-8.ptldor.dsl-w.verizon.net) | |
| 17:34.54 | brlcad | IriX64: if you have stuff you want to share and it's more than just a couple lines, use pastebin instead of here |
| 17:34.57 | brlcad | ~pastebin |
| 17:34.59 | ibot | pastebin is probably a place to paste your stuff without flooding the channel - try http://pastebin.com/ (BROKEN AND SUCKING NUTS), or http://pastebin.ca, or http://channels.debian.net/paste, or for #oe use http://oe.pastebin.com, or http://bzflag.pastebin.ca/ |
| 17:35.40 | brlcad | seeing your build options isn't very interesting too, fwiw unless something is broken .. |
| 17:38.57 | IriX64 | thankyou. |
| 17:39.11 | ``Erik | http://paste.lisp.org/ beeyotch |
| 17:39.33 | IriX64 | ~pastebin |
| 17:39.35 | ibot | well, pastebin is a place to paste your stuff without flooding the channel - try http://pastebin.com/ (BROKEN AND SUCKING NUTS), or http://pastebin.ca, or http://channels.debian.net/paste, or for #oe use http://oe.pastebin.com, or http://bzflag.pastebin.ca/ |
| 17:39.45 | IriX64 | whup. |
| 17:42.05 | ``Erik | this place sure does look different when it's clean O.o |
| 17:45.35 | IriX64 | i'll pay money for the tank with slat armor database, (I'll also pay money for the key to Ms. Aprils .g file but thats another issue) :) |
| 17:46.16 | brlcad | ~pastebin is also http://paste.lisp.org/ for the lisp/scheme nuts |
| 17:46.19 | ibot | brlcad: okay |
| 17:49.37 | IriX64 | captive audience. |
| 17:50.31 | brlcad | not for long if you keep doing it :) |
| 17:50.54 | IriX64 | heh i know. |
| 17:54.03 | IriX64 | too much like work, i'm basically a lazy slob.:) |
| 17:57.07 | brlcad | so lazily look at them :) |
| 17:57.17 | brlcad | nobody makes you, do it for fun |
| 17:57.24 | brlcad | or for recognition |
| 17:57.33 | brlcad | or for no reason at all ;) |
| 17:59.55 | IriX64 | you neglect to add but farking well do it. :) |
| 18:01.11 | IriX64 | can you send .jpg files to that pastebin? |
| 18:03.36 | IriX64 | shot on pastebin.com have a look. |
| 18:04.00 | IriX64 | never mind blahhhhhh. |
| 18:05.24 | IriX64 | ill send you a jpeg of my screen when im finished building it and bring it up for test. |
| 18:05.42 | IriX64 | right now tho smoke break. |
| 18:07.22 | b0ef | brlcad: yup, inkscape supports offset curves |
| 18:07.58 | b0ef | brlcad: too bad it's only bezier; so when I change one part of the curve, the rest of the curve is affected;) |
| 18:21.56 | IriX64 | unilateral |
| 18:23.50 | IriX64 | hey b0ef... libtoolize it ;) |
| 18:25.04 | brlcad | b0ef: ahh, yeah they can be a pain for curve editing.. having to add all the extra control points to keep the other parts from moving much |
| 18:59.34 | clock_ | ``Erik: what do you do for the chicks? |
| 19:01.30 | ``Erik | brlcad tracker stuff |
| 19:44.35 | IriX64 | would u let me send one of you a .jpg? |
| 19:44.40 | IriX64 | you |
| 19:45.08 | IriX64 | the chicks name is havoc. |
| 19:48.44 | ``Erik | ... I've seen the mi28 an awful lot over the last few years. You're not going to show me anything I'm not completely bored with seeing. |
| 19:49.35 | IriX64 | its a shot of my desktop rendering havoc and doing a few other things. |
| 19:49.46 | ``Erik | tell the truth, I really don't care... |
| 19:49.48 | ``Erik | sorry |
| 19:49.53 | IriX64 | ahh well. |
| 19:50.11 | ``Erik | <-- busy doing the home improvement thing o.O |
| 19:50.35 | IriX64 | i like my home home just the way it is ... sloppy. |
| 19:52.22 | IriX64 | brb reboot is indicated (Tell the truth, you probably don't care :)) |
| 20:00.48 | *** join/#brlcad IriX64 (n=IriX64@toronto-HSE-ppp4308865.sympatico.ca) | |
| 20:05.31 | IriX64 | IriX64@hagarsfi-f038a0 ~/brlcad-10.0.0 |
| 20:05.31 | IriX64 | $ aclocal |
| 20:05.31 | IriX64 | /usr/share/aclocal/pkg.m4:5: warning: underquoted definition of PKG_CHECK_MODULE |
| 20:05.31 | IriX64 | S run info '(automake)Extending aclocal' or see http://sources.redhat.com/automake/automake.html#Extending-aclocal |
| 20:05.34 | IriX64 | /usr/share/aclocal/libsmi.m4:8: warning: underquoted definition of AM_PATH_LIBSM |
| 20:05.36 | IriX64 | I |
| 20:05.39 | IriX64 | /usr/share/aclocal/libmcrypt.m4:17: warning: underquoted definition of AM_PATH_L |
| 20:05.42 | IriX64 | IBMCRYPT |
| 20:05.44 | IriX64 | /usr/share/aclocal/libgcrypt.m4:23: warning: underquoted definition of AM_PATH_L |
| 20:05.47 | IriX64 | IBGCRYPT |
| 20:05.49 | IriX64 | /usr/share/aclocal/freetype2.m4:7: warning: underquoted definition of AC_CHECK_F |
| 20:05.52 | IriX64 | T2 |
| 20:05.54 | IriX64 | /usr/share/aclocal/cppunit.m4:4: warning: underquoted definition of AM_PATH_CPPU |
| 20:05.57 | IriX64 | NIT |
| 20:05.59 | IriX64 | aclocal:configure.ac:2765: warning: macro `AM_PATH_SDL' not found in library |
| 20:06.01 | IriX64 | is this normal? |
| 20:09.39 | ``Erik | yes, and quit pasting shit here, dude |
| 20:10.33 | IriX64 | sorry wont do it again, thought i found something. |
| 20:10.43 | IriX64 | next time ill ask. |
| 20:11.08 | ``Erik | if it's more than one line, use a paste site and say the url... |
| 20:11.27 | IriX64 | thankyou. ill use pstebin.com. |
| 20:11.36 | IriX64 | err pastebin.com |
| 20:11.46 | IriX64 | hahhaah pestbin.com ;) |
| 20:12.05 | ``Erik | (some of us leave for hours, then come back and read the backscroll... pasted shit makes it a lot harder for us) |
| 20:12.22 | IriX64 | true lack of thought on my part. |
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| 21:44.58 | CIA-9 | BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/autogen.sh: detect a recursive configure, it's not really properly supported yet.. but if the problem is glibtool, we should be able to continue through a restart with LIBTOOLIZE set |
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| 22:27.47 | CIA-9 | BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/misc/win32-msvc7/librt/librt.vcproj: no longer need to define IMPORT_FASTGEN4_SECTION |
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| 00:23.12 | *** topic/#brlcad is http://brlcad.org/ || BRL-CAD is an open source solid modeling software suite || Developers needed! Read the HACKING file for details on getting involved | |
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| 01:46.15 | IriX64 | mmmm would you be interested in the source to that linuxbrlcad.zip i sent to ftp.brlcad.org a while back? |
| 01:47.46 | IriX64 | ill take that as a yes, you're free to delete it if it doesn't pass muster. |
| 01:49.01 | brlcad | the source? |
| 01:49.06 | brlcad | why, did you change the sources? |
| 01:49.15 | IriX64 | eh? |
| 01:49.35 | brlcad | why would I want the source to linuxbrlcad.zip? |
| 01:49.51 | IriX64 | to go along with the bibaries. |
| 01:50.03 | brlcad | but I mean did you actually modify the sources? |
| 01:50.27 | brlcad | presumably you obtained the sourcecode from cvs or from a source distribution |
| 01:50.47 | brlcad | so if you didn't modify the sources.... why would I need/want them? |
| 01:51.08 | IriX64 | do the binaries not have stuff thats not there in the distribution? |
| 01:51.22 | IriX64 | or did you even look at the binaries |
| 01:51.24 | IriX64 | ? |
| 01:51.28 | brlcad | i looked at the binaries |
| 01:51.36 | IriX64 | stock? |
| 01:51.38 | brlcad | you're avoiding my question though :) |
| 01:51.45 | brlcad | did you modify the sources? |
| 01:51.57 | IriX64 | i hate questions life would be simpler without them. |
| 01:52.03 | IriX64 | yes i did. |
| 01:52.32 | brlcad | care to share what and why? anything significant? |
| 01:52.45 | brlcad | if it's useful, i'd integrate it into cvs |
| 01:52.55 | IriX64 | geometry browser has been enhanced |
| 01:53.08 | brlcad | I'm not going to go goose hunting for mysterious changes though :) |
| 01:53.17 | brlcad | enhanced? |
| 01:53.44 | IriX64 | just compile the code. |
| 01:54.35 | brlcad | you enjoy being difficult and obscure, or is it just a hobby? :) |
| 01:54.47 | IriX64 | both ;) |
| 01:56.37 | IriX64 | smoke break. |
| 02:30.46 | IriX64 | ah well client troubles, maybe another time. |
| 02:32.12 | IriX64 | rhubarb anyone? :) |
| 02:32.29 | IriX64 | this client isn't equipped for that though. |
| 02:40.29 | *** join/#brlcad IriX64_ (n=IriX64@toronto-HSE-ppp4308865.sympatico.ca) | |
| 02:41.31 | IriX64_ | mention rhubarb one time ... my system goes to war on me. |
| 02:43.21 | IriX64_ | man wheres the status screen on irssi? |
| 02:44.23 | IriX64_ | ill be back. |
| 02:46.34 | *** join/#brlcad IriX64 (n=Who@toronto-HSE-ppp4308865.sympatico.ca) | |
| 02:47.03 | IriX64 | clients should be all the same :) |
| 02:50.00 | IriX64 | sugar or salt? |
| 02:51.03 | brlcad | it's like rhubarb pie, but with a sugary crunchy topping in a baking dish |
| 02:53.25 | IriX64 | thought you meant a stick of rhubarb lightly sprinkled. |
| 02:57.35 | IriX64 | IriX64@hagarsfi-f038a0 ~/brlcad-10.0.0 |
| 02:57.35 | IriX64 | $ ./configure --enable-almost-everything --with-x --enable-math --enable-optimi |
| 02:57.35 | IriX64 | zations --disable-shared --build=i586-unix-freebsd |
| 02:58.09 | IriX64 | did i miss any options? |
| 03:02.55 | IriX64 | cleverly programmed into each build cycle is a looooong smoke break :) |
| 03:02.58 | brlcad | --with-x is the default |
| 03:03.36 | IriX64 | thank you wasn't sure thought i looked in configure --help and saw it wasn't or something. |
| 03:03.46 | IriX64 | or read it wrong. |
| 03:28.39 | CIA-9 | BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/autogen.sh: (log message trimmed) |
| 03:28.39 | CIA-9 | BRL-CAD: yet another fairly massive rewrite, this time mostly just restructuring. keep |
| 03:28.39 | CIA-9 | BRL-CAD: track of the basename for better output messages and refactor the initialization |
| 03:28.39 | CIA-9 | BRL-CAD: steps into a function. also refactor the libtool failure check into a function |
| 03:28.39 | CIA-9 | BRL-CAD: while we're at it as well. all steps towards being able to cleanly handle |
| 03:28.40 | CIA-9 | BRL-CAD: manual build steps of projects using recursive configure. oh, and this change |
| 03:28.42 | CIA-9 | BRL-CAD: removes the directory change to the autogen.sh script, so it must once again be |
| 04:16.08 | CIA-9 | BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/autogen.sh: allow external overrides on HELP, QUIET, VERBOSE, and VERSION_ONLY. document the settable project defaults |
| 04:29.20 | CIA-9 | BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/autogen.sh: utilize the RUN_RECURSIVE define so that we don't recurse more than once during autogening |
| 05:34.16 | CIA-9 | BRL-CAD: 03johnranderson * 10brlcad/src/tclscripts/mged/mike-tux.ppm: The file in the cvs repository was corrupted. Sean, be careful when using scripts to update all files :-) |
| 05:34.47 | brlcad | oops |
| 05:37.25 | brlcad | ahh, some lines actually end with a color that equaled a space/tab char |
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| 07:19.25 | CIA-9 | BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/autogen.sh: add a manual_autogen function that runs the manual configuration steps. this makes it possible to add support for manual recursive configure build support. |
| 07:51.13 | *** join/#brlcad clock_ (i=clock@84-72-94-219.dclient.hispeed.ch) | |
| 08:56.18 | ``Erik | hah |
| 08:58.11 | ``Erik | (dare I 'orange' mike-tux.ppm to get ride of those two revisions?) |
| 13:40.38 | brlcad | nah |
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| 15:01.09 | CIA-9 | BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/NEWS: speling |
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| 15:34.04 | *** mode/#brlcad [+o ChanServ] by irc.freenode.net | |
| 16:16.19 | CIA-9 | BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/autogen.sh: allow environment variable overrides on AUTORECONF, AUTOCONF, AUTOMAKE, LIBTOOLIZE, ACLOCAL, AUTOHEADER. fix --help so it works again (need to rewrite so it's not just a configure pass-through) |
| 17:50.30 | *** join/#brlcad matt_ezeki_230 (n=matt@host117-24.pool8710.interbusiness.it) | |
| 17:50.39 | matt_ezeki_230 | hello guys... |
| 17:53.26 | brlcad | hello |
| 17:59.08 | matt_ezeki_230 | brlcad: hi, do you remember an our 3-4 days ago chat? We talked about to show a solid inside an other solid as broken line and you suggested me to use direct region flag... |
| 17:59.35 | brlcad | as a potential direction |
| 18:00.05 | brlcad | along with maybe merging the mged wireframe with a rendered version |
| 18:02.09 | matt_ezeki_230 | yes, show potential direction as broken line after a raytrace |
| 18:02.53 | matt_ezeki_230 | I tried to find any example of use of direct region flag |
| 18:03.06 | matt_ezeki_230 | but without success |
| 18:03.39 | matt_ezeki_230 | and neither a definition of direct region flag in MGED_Quick_Ref, VolumeII... |
| 18:03.45 | matt_ezeki_230 | VolumeIII.. etc... |
| 18:04.10 | matt_ezeki_230 | would you be so kind as to give me a simple example of use? |
| 18:05.09 | brlcad | it's in the manpage |
| 18:05.13 | brlcad | for rtedge |
| 18:06.14 | brlcad | somewhat obscure detail to be putting into introductory training docs ;) |
| 18:33.03 | matt_ezeki_230 | ok... I think i'm near at hand the solution! I gave the command rtedge -W -s850 -c"set dr=1" but it returns the following error: |
| 18:33.48 | matt_ezeki_230 | rt_do_cmd("set): command not found |
| 18:36.03 | matt_ezeki_230 | BRL-CAD Release 7.8.2 ..... |
| 18:38.01 | matt_ezeki_230 | /usr/brlcad/bin/rtedge -M -W -s850 -c"set |
| 18:38.15 | matt_ezeki_230 | opendb dr=1"; |
| 18:38.53 | matt_ezeki_230 | rt: rt_dirbuild(dr=1") failure |
| 18:39.02 | matt_ezeki_230 | any suggestion?? |
| 19:05.46 | brlcad | run it on the command line, not inside mged |
| 19:06.01 | brlcad | otherwise you get into tclsh issues and how to go about escaping options, etc |
| 19:15.22 | matt_ezeki_230 | ok...but something was wrong... |
| 19:15.27 | matt_ezeki_230 | i gave |
| 19:15.35 | matt_ezeki_230 | in mged: |
| 19:15.48 | matt_ezeki_230 | 1) in a.s rcc 0 0 -2 0 0 4 1 |
| 19:16.00 | matt_ezeki_230 | 2) in b.s rcc 0 -2 0 0 4 0 1 |
| 19:16.10 | matt_ezeki_230 | 3) r reg.r u a.s u b.s |
| 19:16.19 | matt_ezeki_230 | in command line: |
| 19:17.03 | matt_ezeki_230 | /usr/brlcad/bin/rtedge -W -s850 -c"set dr=1" test.g reg.r >test.pix |
| 19:17.21 | brlcad | rtedge doesn't send to stdout |
| 19:17.27 | brlcad | rtedge -o test.pix |
| 19:18.03 | matt_ezeki_230 | really? I obtained a correct graphic with both cylinders... |
| 19:18.12 | brlcad | or rtedge -F/dev/Xl -o test.pix -W -s850 -c"set dr=1" test.g reg.r in order to both see it in a window and render to file |
| 19:20.25 | matt_ezeki_230 | ok the graphic is raytraced but there are any broken lines in cylinders intersection.... |
| 19:20.45 | matt_ezeki_230 | neither using -c"set dr=1"... |
| 19:24.45 | brlcad | the "broken lines" are likely related to the default curvature tolerance |
| 19:24.56 | brlcad | you'll have to tweak that as they are the same region |
| 19:25.13 | brlcad | so you're only using curvature information to draw the edge |
| 19:33.02 | CIA-9 | BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/AUTHORS: bowers middle is anthony, so sayeth the rtedge manpage |
| 19:38.56 | brlcad | ahh, I see what you mean by the "broken lines".. it's because those two cynlinders begin to merge there within the edge/curvature tolerance so it's no longer considered an edge |
| 19:39.25 | brlcad | that doesn't seem to be a configurable tolerance either, it's on or off (e.g. dn=0) |
| 19:41.09 | brlcad | i could make that configurable if you really would like that feature .. depends if it's significant as edges such as those are questionably still edges |
| 19:41.55 | brlcad | e.g. you'll never really get the X to come fully together as the point at which they meet is very much a smooth crossing |
| 20:11.52 | CIA-9 | BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/autogen.sh: |
| 20:11.52 | CIA-9 | BRL-CAD: woot, this little "script" is in excess of 1000 lines... in celebration, finally |
| 20:11.52 | CIA-9 | BRL-CAD: break tradition with other autogen.sh convention by adding a more useful --help |
| 20:11.52 | CIA-9 | BRL-CAD: option instead of passing it on to configure. also add support to override any |
| 20:11.52 | CIA-9 | BRL-CAD: of the command (autoreconf, automake, etc) options via a set of _OPTIONS |
| 20:11.54 | CIA-9 | BRL-CAD: environment variables. |
| 21:00.48 | *** join/#brlcad digitalfredy (n=digitalf@200.71.62.161) | |
| 21:13.41 | *** join/#brlcad lg_ (n=lg_@mstr195175-16578.dial-in.ttnet.net.tr) | |
| 21:13.54 | lg_ | hi... |
| 21:14.25 | brlcad | howdy |
| 21:15.03 | lg_ | finally got into the irc-channel... just a real brlcad-noob, however ;-) |
| 21:15.32 | brlcad | welcome, lots of noobs abound ;) |
| 21:16.04 | lg_ | anyone among those who ever tried brlcad's mged on a mac? |
| 21:16.24 | brlcad | plenty do, it's one of the primary dev platforms |
| 21:17.16 | lg_ | hm, than i must have done something really stupid - i could not find out how to navigate, e.g. zoom in and out, using keyboard shortcuts... |
| 21:17.34 | lg_ | thought it was an exotic platform for brlcad |
| 21:19.00 | lg_ | and without this kind of usability, it is even hard to try out ;-) |
| 21:19.47 | brlcad | the mged modeler in brl-cad wasn't designed to be "discoverable", that's likely a large portion of your difficulties with it |
| 21:20.22 | lg_ | ;-) but i suppose there is a way to navigate with keyboard / shortcuts, right? |
| 21:22.14 | brlcad | yes and no |
| 21:22.38 | brlcad | the command line is clearly key oriented and *everything* you can do with the gui can be done without the gui interface |
| 21:23.04 | brlcad | did you see the shiftgrips and mged quick reference on the website? |
| 21:23.24 | brlcad | the introduction to mged tutorial on there is also pretty good for getting walked through the basics |
| 21:23.40 | brlcad | takes just a couple hours to get through the whole series if you're diligent |
| 21:25.22 | lg_ | ok. i have mged with a model opened, and the geometry browser says there are three objects, one spere and a cylinder among those. i am in the graphics window, and the view menu claims that 'I' and 'O' should zoom in and out. Do I have to press the Apple-Key, the Ctrl-Key or anything together, or what does it mean? I simply don't see an effect. I also do not know how to move to an initial view showing all objects, if I do not know their posi |
| 21:25.44 | lg_ | ;-) I know the pdf-documentation, it is pretty well done |
| 21:30.53 | lg_ | i think my entry level problems are even too basic to be solved with the documentation - I do not know how to control the gui even |
| 21:32.03 | brlcad | mged's graphical is not the greatest ;) the command line is a fair bit more powerful |
| 21:32.13 | brlcad | there's work on-going on a new graphical interface (two projects actually) |
| 21:34.19 | lg_ | i heard about it. but don't misunderstand me, i like editing by the command line. it is just necessary to have some viewer app, e.g. to explore geometry imported from other applications. right now, i see a black mged graphics window with one bright pixel in the middle, and entering the shortcuts simply shows no effect. that is my current problem ;-) still, is there some information about the new guis available now? |
| 21:34.51 | lg_ | and, by the way, did anyone bind to the brlcad-libs from c++? |
| 21:35.49 | brlcad | ahh, you found a bug |
| 21:36.22 | brlcad | I and O were zoom in/out but the command that they bound to no longer exists |
| 21:36.22 | lg_ | no, that cannot be true, it's a bug? after all my new grey hair now??? |
| 21:36.37 | matt_ezeki_230 | brlcad: maybe I posed you a too much trivial case...or too much particular issue. If you agree I could send to you 3 files: 2 database and an "instruction files" so you can see what I need to do... |
| 21:37.18 | brlcad | matt_ezeki_230: sure |
| 21:37.23 | lg_ | i was convinced to be the most stupid brlcad-beginner in the universe (or at least the ip4-address-space) |
| 21:37.30 | brlcad | heh |
| 21:39.05 | lg_ | so what is the new way to navigate a scene / model now, if the commands where removed? or have they been removed accidentally? |
| 21:41.42 | brlcad | there's generally five different ways to get something done |
| 21:42.26 | brlcad | e.g. zoom command on the command line, first and third mouse buttons |
| 21:42.53 | lg_ | hey, one would even be sufficient... imagine me, sitting in front of mged, the geometry got imported, is shown in the geometry browser, and I cannot manage to see it |
| 21:43.09 | lg_ | ok, lets try that |
| 21:43.39 | brlcad | if you just want to see it, double click it in the geometry browser ;) |
| 21:43.47 | brlcad | right-click in browser gives a menu |
| 21:44.19 | brlcad | e or draw command will display geometry, tops command shows the top-level hierarchy |
| 21:44.36 | lg_ | it's there! |
| 21:45.00 | lg_ | the double-clicked showed it. |
| 21:45.04 | brlcad | these commands are all in the mged quick reference and are covered by the tutorials ;) |
| 21:45.16 | brlcad | (cept the browser isn't covered) |
| 21:45.39 | lg_ | i am on a mac (laptop), using a one-button mouse. so i am used to use CTRL-left to emulate the right mouse button, what seams not to work in mged! |
| 21:45.41 | brlcad | it's effectively "experimental" as there are a couple known limitations (in particular for one-button mouse systems) |
| 21:46.26 | brlcad | cmd-click will display the menu on os x |
| 21:46.48 | brlcad | move over the menu item and then hit return instead of clicking |
| 21:47.08 | brlcad | and yes, that's very clunky.. |
| 21:47.23 | brlcad | I'd suggest learning the command line first unless you have a keyboard aversion |
| 21:47.41 | brlcad | that interface will carry over to both of the new modelers too |
| 21:48.13 | lg_ | ahem...yes, keeping the cmd-key and the mouse pressed, moving at the same time to the menu item and pressing enter, i think two people are needed to operate that on my mac ;-) |
| 21:49.36 | lg_ | the new modelers could insist on keeping the eyes closed while performing these artistic operations ;-) |
| 21:50.10 | brlcad | they'll certainly be more discoverable sans documentation at least :) |
| 21:52.06 | lg_ | ok, now, after the first success, i got some motivation. don't take me wrong, I went through the doc, but i really had some problems because some basic functionality seamed not to work. and i started with an imported model, as that is where i am right now, i am considering to use brlcad on existing model data. so, even if i should have done so, i think it is not surprising that i first went through the modeling exercises. |
| 21:52.37 | brlcad | by the way.. if you happen to be hitting keys and the model starts spinning on you.. hit 0 ;) |
| 21:52.47 | brlcad | that's caused by xyzXYZ bindings |
| 21:53.09 | lg_ | beautyful |
| 21:53.43 | *** join/#brlcad DTRemenak|RDP (n=DTRemena@c-24-23-59-104.hsd1.ca.comcast.net) | |
| 21:53.59 | matt_ezeki_230 | brlcad: i'm trying to send you the 3 files.. |
| 21:54.04 | brlcad | similarly (f)ront, (l)eft back right top bottom, and (3)5/25 az/el view |
| 21:55.00 | brlcad | matt_ezeki_230: thanks.. hadn't noticed.. |
| 21:55.06 | lg_ | by the way, the geometry i imported from formz by iges arrived like a charm, great. still, as far as i understood, brlcad is moving to step niw, right? |
| 21:55.43 | matt_ezeki_230 | thanks to you for your help |
| 21:55.54 | matt_ezeki_230 | brlcad: thanks to you for your help |
| 21:57.51 | lg_ | ok, i think i will play a while now ;-) |
| 21:59.00 | brlcad | lg_: as far as mouse gui bindings for os x, shift+ctrl+mouse is zoom, shift+option+mouse is translate, ctrl+option+mouse is rotate |
| 21:59.19 | brlcad | some more details on those in the shift-grips guide |
| 22:00.00 | lg_ | ah, one more question (the answer may be hidden in the docs, but i could not fing it so far), not for the gui. can i use wildcards to operate on many objects, that are not grouped? as mentioned, i have existing geometry imported. |
| 22:00.09 | brlcad | lg_: some work on a step importer was started though it is currently stalled effort as the lead dev that was working on it is off on something else right now |
| 22:00.35 | brlcad | we do have the step specs though, and an updated version of the nist express parser |
| 22:01.40 | lg_ | that's a pity, as the iges importer seams to support only rather old iges4. while, as menitioned, the geometry is fine, i could not use e.g. blocks (or references or instances or symbols or however it is called) |
| 22:01.46 | brlcad | lg_: yes you can -- the mged command line has two evaluation modes -- the default is like a command shell with globbing operators eg ls *.r ; the other is tcl evaluation which is a lot more involved to explain if you don't know the Tcl language |
| 22:02.10 | lg_ | yes, i know a bit about the story, i am on the free-architecture mailing list, and the step issue had been discusses |
| 22:02.12 | brlcad | yeah, it would be nice if someone worked on updating the iges converter too |
| 22:02.25 | brlcad | limited resources and time of course.. |
| 22:02.48 | lg_ | ok, no surprise if you are working on the gui and frontend stuff |
| 22:03.05 | brlcad | yeah, that's the most "hurting" imho |
| 22:03.51 | brlcad | we can hook in all existing importers and exporters and still be worlds better than most other projects even with the limited functionality and limitations on some of them |
| 22:04.13 | brlcad | but it's hard to avoid the old mged gui at the moment |
| 22:04.22 | brlcad | people expect/want something radically different |
| 22:04.33 | brlcad | most at least |
| 22:04.37 | lg_ | yes, but that is bound to specific applications |
| 22:04.49 | brlcad | very much so |
| 22:05.59 | brlcad | the follow up modeller addresses that problem with plugin profiles so you can have things like a gui with terminology changes specific to domains (e.g. CADD, CAE, CAM, CAA, etc) |
| 22:07.31 | lg_ | i dream of something like small, nice tools to create high-level objects for architecture, a manager app that creates geometry from these and sends them to brlcad, a viewer showing them with librt, tracing view rays to find objects when the user hits a mouse button to implement snap, tracing back from the object to the again small app that generated the high level object that initiated its creation... nice design for an architectural cad sy |
| 22:08.29 | brlcad | initial focus will likely be towards generic CAD integrating all of our existing functionality for geometry management, image manipulation, importers, exporters, renderers, etc |
| 22:09.04 | brlcad | then move on towards whatever the community demands most (which at this point seems to be CADD, CAM, and CAA in probably that order) |
| 22:09.16 | lg_ | ok, a generic 3d cad would be an outstanding project right now |
| 22:10.01 | brlcad | we have all the implementation pretty much done, the brl-cad libraries provide 80-90% of what is needed already implementation-wise |
| 22:10.10 | brlcad | what's missing is a gui ennvironment to wrap it all up in |
| 22:10.24 | lg_ | my interest is in architectural cad, and that requires a level above the geometry. that does not mean that generic cad cannot be used for architecture, it is another way to work. |
| 22:10.40 | lg_ | yes, the gui is a key issue to get these things accepted |
| 22:11.14 | brlcad | sure, architecture (CAA) is very closely related to CADD needs.. drafting diagrams, constraints, parametrics, rendered plans, etc |
| 22:11.46 | brlcad | lot more focus on 2D than you generally see in solid modeling leveraging extrusions more, sketches, etc |
| 22:12.24 | lg_ | yes, but for caad you need some kind of intelligence in the objects. i do not like the 2d approach too much, i want an useable 3d model to extract information from |
| 22:13.24 | lg_ | what i mean by intelligence is that a window belongs to a wall, that a corner of a wall is constructed by well-known rules depending on material etc, and that the actual geometry is the result of these |
| 22:14.37 | lg_ | small generator applications could handle that very well, and i would feed the brlcad not directly by user input, but by a library of objects that the user generates |
| 22:15.12 | bjorkBSD | window belongs to a wall ... |
| 22:15.16 | bjorkBSD | or ANYTHING which would hold it. |
| 22:15.21 | bjorkBSD | door ... |
| 22:15.23 | bjorkBSD | roof. |
| 22:15.44 | bjorkBSD | floor? (wtf?!) |
| 22:16.21 | bjorkBSD | but idiomatically (note linguistic metaphor) |
| 22:16.25 | bjorkBSD | it belongs in a wall. |
| 22:17.04 | lg_ | yes, but the object should "know" this. it can still be flexible, but for architecture, it makes a lot of sense that placing a window in another object implies that an opening is cut into that object, and, if the object is moved, the window changes its position, too (some kind of parent-child-hierarchie here). |
| 22:17.05 | bjorkBSD | ... and if you're a certain company in redmond, windows belong everywhere :D |
| 22:17.29 | lg_ | than it belongs under the earth... |
| 22:17.30 | bjorkBSD | i thought that was the whole point of CSG |
| 22:17.37 | brlcad | those are constraints and hierarchical geometry views in a generic sense, also being thought about.. how I could say, for example, that I want to create a "typical" brick-mortar 2-level house |
| 22:18.06 | brlcad | where i'd only specify dimensions, numbers of windows, doors, etc .. extreme example given the size/complexity but gives the idea |
| 22:19.32 | brlcad | similar smaller scale might be that I want a nut and bolt, and I'd just specify the length, threadsize, etc and the model would retain that knowledge and the underlying connections (e.g. all the primitives or splines or whatever used to make the threads unioned to a cylinder, etc) |
| 22:19.33 | lg_ | yes, it should still be allowed to influence and manipulate, but, for example, the bricks are only available in some certain sizes, that defined usual openings, all kinds of dimensions, construction details. it is a whole layer over the actual csg stuff happening |
| 22:20.42 | bjorkBSD | lg have you ever used catia by any chance? |
| 22:21.23 | lg_ | no, i think it is close to what i want |
| 22:22.56 | bjorkBSD | fork up the dough :D |
| 22:23.08 | bjorkBSD | or **** it and tell us what it's like. |
| 22:23.16 | bjorkBSD | <PROTECTED> |
| 22:24.23 | lg_ | bjorkbsd, are you from a archicture-related field? |
| 22:24.57 | lg_ | i ask because i am curious about people using this kind of apps in architecture. most caad is much more primitive imho |
| 22:26.29 | brlcad | invest dozens of thousands into catia and company or invest that money/time/interest by contributing to an open source CAD project ;) |
| 22:27.29 | lg_ | i would prefer the second, while it is hard for someone who is not really good in writing code (i am actually an architect) |
| 22:28.02 | bjorkBSD | not at all, lg_ |
| 22:28.10 | bjorkBSD | i'm from a "wow this is COOOL" field. |
| 22:28.37 | brlcad | if that's not brl-cad, so be it, but it's a shame that so many are willing to dump so much money and time into commercial packages when there's clearly enough interest and talent to get something together |
| 22:29.00 | bjorkBSD | i'm especially interested in the interface. |
| 22:29.13 | lg_ | still i try to contribute by collecting information, promoting the idea etc. just set up a website to allow people to share their ideas on it (free-architecture.org). |
| 22:29.16 | brlcad | all I know is that we're a couple decades of development ahead of the other open source "competition" and we still have a couple decades of dev-time catch-up to go |
| 22:29.21 | bjorkBSD | but curse the paucity of coding skills! |
| 22:29.51 | lg_ | bjorkbsd, what is wowsocool? |
| 22:30.03 | brlcad | lg_: it's all appreciated ;) actually your architectural expertise alone is enough to warrant respect and be useful |
| 22:30.28 | brlcad | no single project can cross domains without having consistent participation from the major CAD domains |
| 22:31.37 | bjorkBSD | lg_ modeling mechanical components and watching mechanisms come to life until i can afford to create them. |
| 22:32.00 | brlcad | right now the biggest void is a lack of developer involvement, though documentation, tutorials, and advertising (website, release notes, news, conferences) take up a huge amount of time too |
| 22:32.22 | lg_ | i think if the brlcad people continue work on a really robust csg engine, it is the best they can do, as there are few implementations i know about. still, i would love to see some coordinated effort to allow to chain all these tools to form something more complete and useable. and take e.g. the load of developing viewers and guis from those working on the engin |
| 22:32.56 | lg_ | bjorkBSD, ok, mechanics, I guess your are closer to the typical brlcad user profile than me than ;-) |
| 22:34.08 | matt_ezeki_230 | brlcad: now i go away (to sleep because here in Italy it is 12:34 A.M. :-) ). If would you be so kind as to try the code in file README....you have my e-mail (file README again) but i'll be back here tomorrow. Bye and thanks a lot for your help! |
| 22:34.21 | brlcad | lg_: brl-cad's CSG engine and raytrace engines is actually one of the oldest and best around -- better than just about every commercial iplementation as well from a robustness and performance perspective |
| 22:34.41 | bjorkBSD | comparable to catia? :O |
| 22:34.46 | lg_ | hey, matt_ezeki, good night, here in istanbul it's already 1.34 will be hard tomorrow morning |
| 22:34.59 | brlcad | lg_: you're right though.. a coordinated effort is desparately needed and leveraging existing functionality |
| 22:35.11 | brlcad | bjorkBSD: actually yes |
| 22:35.15 | bjorkBSD | <PROTECTED> |
| 22:35.22 | bjorkBSD | then we have a gold mine on our hands :-? |
| 22:35.39 | matt_ezeki_230 | lg_: he he ! yes, will be hard :-) |
| 22:35.41 | brlcad | brl-cad libraries were designed with large-models and performance in mind, primary focus has always been on analysis purposes |
| 22:36.24 | brlcad | where it very much lacks is in the modeling interface side |
| 22:36.29 | bjorkBSD | how did you become involved with brl-cad, brlcad ? |
| 22:36.54 | brlcad | and support for brep/nurbs primitives.. that's one weak area in the engine |
| 22:38.05 | lg_ | i have been so fed up with the fact that all the csg-engined I used in architecture led to geometry that was not suitable for any other editing after some booleans. so i appreciate a csg engine ;-) |
| 22:38.08 | brlcad | bjorkBSD: anyone can become involved.. I became involved many years ago working under Mike Muuss (BRL-CAD's original architect) |
| 22:38.51 | brlcad | lg_: are you familiar with where brl-cad comes from and what it is/was designed for? |
| 22:38.53 | lg_ | brlcad, seams that you have been in the development for a while? |
| 22:39.24 | brlcad | about 7 or so years now, lead developer |
| 22:39.47 | lg_ | brlcad, yes, i think that is why its powerful, it is to create models for analysis, while many modelers and cad i used where for visualization or limited complexity |
| 22:40.20 | brlcad | i was behind the pressure to make it an open source project, took several years and lots of effort .. to say the least |
| 22:40.55 | lg_ | can imagine it was hard to make this move with an established project like brlcad |
| 22:42.22 | lg_ | i follow the development of radiance, which was also open-sourced some years ago, after maybe 20 years of development, also controlled by governmental (and other) institutions. still, it is great that these things happened finally, so we can send a thank you know, because we can play around with all these nice toys ;-) |
| 22:43.07 | brlcad | yeah, radiance is pretty cool .. some of the brl-cad devs used to work with them way back when |
| 22:43.57 | bjorkBSD | hmmm. |
| 22:44.39 | brlcad | difference there being radiance was somewhat lingering/abandoned so it was open source, whereas brl-cad continues to be actively used and developed but was open sourced to "give back" and spark expanded collaboration/development/etc |
| 22:46.34 | brlcad | i've toyed with the idea of writing a radiance-compatible interface to brl-cad for a while myself.. or even implementing a new tracer based on brl-cad's raytrace library |
| 22:46.54 | brlcad | infinitely doable, very cool stuff |
| 22:47.16 | lg_ | well, i do not know the internals of radiance development over the time, but there is a lot of development around it, many projects forked, and a lot of commercial applications (most of the serious ones) are based on it. the problem is that is seams to be hard for new devs to join the core dev team |
| 22:47.18 | brlcad | hard to stay focused on the modeler :) |
| 22:47.36 | bjorkBSD | brlcad, i can read C to some extent, but when you move this stuff to c++ ... |
| 22:47.40 | bjorkBSD | that'll be the end for me :( |
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| 22:48.26 | brlcad | bjorkBSD: the core will likely always remain C .. most of the initial 300+ plugins are all C |
| 22:48.32 | lg_ | yes, but i think an even cooler interface would be to the more general simulation environment esp-r, than i could use the solid model to do all kinds of thermal simulation, too, and still use the interface from esp-r to radiance ;-) |
| 22:49.03 | brlcad | bjorkBSD: it's only the higher level logic that will be C++ and even that will be utilizing the C layers :) |
| 22:49.40 | brlcad | lg_: that's the problem with CAD development in general.. it spans so many genre's it's hard to stay focused on just a few concepts and do them well :) |
| 22:49.57 | bjorkBSD | <PROTECTED> |
| 22:50.13 | lg_ | that is nice, it means i will see some examples how to call the brlcad libs from c++ ( i know a bit c++) |
| 22:50.42 | brlcad | that's why the focus is on a "platform" for plugin-based development so it becomes more manageable to have isolated groups focus on their genre of expertise/interest |
| 22:51.26 | lg_ | but, for the radiance interface, you would have to mesh all the geometry, as radiance supports no csg at all. and than you can also use the great (new) wavefront-obj support in radiance, so g2obj is all we need right now |
| 22:52.09 | brlcad | something akin to eclipse for CAD mixed with a game, physics, and render engines :) |
| 22:52.43 | lg_ | i am really curious about what you are doing there. will it be open-source, too, and can we lurk to the dev code soon? ;-9 |
| 22:52.46 | brlcad | lg_: we do the geometry meshing now for a variety of purposes.. half the exporters are mesh-only |
| 22:53.24 | brlcad | the ADRT interface that was added to brl-cad a year or so ago is a high-performance triangle-only engine as well |
| 22:53.31 | lg_ | cad-eclipse, i know a lot of people who dream about this idea (even if it may be sick to dream of cad) |
| 22:53.50 | brlcad | twing created an interactive triangle-only raytracer and path tracer based around it |
| 22:54.23 | brlcad | that's what made things like http://ftp.brlcad.org/images/stryker_slat.png possible |
| 22:55.17 | brlcad | sticking CAD into Eclipse is just wrong .. there are fundamental lessons that can be learned from their project though |
| 22:56.11 | lg_ | brlcad, for radiance, obj is great, the only point where a special exporter would make sense are primitives like spheres, cylinders etc which are supported better then meshing them. but in real models, these primitives are rare. cad in eclipse is nonsense, but the idea of a development framework with plug-ins is great |
| 22:57.08 | lg_ | still loading the image, i am working on 56k-modem-speed right now :-( |
| 22:57.52 | brlcad | correct me if i'm wrong but radiance is both an interface for rendering as well as a rendering system itself. it shouldn't be that much work to implement the radiance interface (so data files, procedural textures, geometry, etc work unmodified) |
| 22:58.26 | brlcad | or even hook in the radiance renderer into some CAD system as a plugin ala how blender has various rendering methods exposed |
| 22:59.03 | brlcad | lg_: eek.. 56k?! didn't know people still use those.. :) |
| 22:59.52 | lg_ | should be possible, the core of radiance is available as a library. i am not sure how easy it is to use the different ways radiance optimizes rendering, as the octree-sorting etc. |
| 23:00.23 | lg_ | there is even a clean and new c++-rewrite, that allows to access all functionality plus some extras from c++ |
| 23:00.43 | brlcad | i'd bet adrt outperforms radiance for full global illumination rendering |
| 23:01.27 | lg_ | (yes, i still don't have a dsl line, cause the phone is registred on the owner of my flat, so i have to wait until she is doing all the paper work. so long i enjoy the good-old-times internet feeling) |
| 23:03.01 | lg_ | (the radiance-rewrite is called radzilla, the author is Carsten Bauer, a physician and always open to good ideas, more info on http://www.cb-d.de/radzilla.html, if you want to spend your spare time ;-) |
| 23:03.02 | brlcad | adrt was implemented based off of recent interactive raytracing research, some of the techniques presented at siggraph over the past 3 years or so only |
| 23:03.28 | lg_ | ok, got the image, you render this interactively? |
| 23:04.23 | brlcad | no no.. that was a full light transport simulation |
| 23:04.57 | brlcad | took several days, 8 trillion rays, many million per second |
| 23:05.16 | lg_ | ok, and the problem was the number of triangles? |
| 23:06.01 | brlcad | saarbricken? not sure I've heard of them |
| 23:06.28 | lg_ | saarbrucken (u-umlaut, in germany) |
| 23:07.07 | brlcad | we (used in the singular sense of the dev that collaborated with them on ideas) worked with saarland .. names escaping me at the moment |
| 23:07.46 | lg_ | yes, saarland is the state, saarbrucken the "capital" |
| 23:07.58 | lg_ | http://www.openrt.de/ |
| 23:08.03 | brlcad | yeah, that's them |
| 23:08.18 | lg_ | they have some nice projects, i think |
| 23:08.19 | brlcad | slusalek |
| 23:08.29 | brlcad | we interacted with them pretty extensively |
| 23:09.14 | lg_ | did not know that. i never met, found out by a friend and followed a bit what they developed. now they seam to try making some money |
| 23:09.28 | brlcad | adrt actually outperforms for some geometries (non-hardware implementation) |
| 23:09.41 | brlcad | yeah, they are focused on selling the library |
| 23:10.00 | brlcad | adrt is effectively an open source free version developed by "someone else" ;) |
| 23:10.51 | lg_ | ;-) i have rendered quite large scenes in radiance by using instances, which allows gigantic geometry by sharing memory. but it is certainly not the renderer for those in need of speed. |
| 23:10.59 | lg_ | will have a look at adrt |
| 23:11.02 | brlcad | basically, an implementation of a lot of ingo wald's research |
| 23:11.38 | brlcad | adrt's deficiencies are in it's polish, user interface is barely existant .. if you can't code, it's not really useable without a lot of hand-holding |
| 23:12.33 | lg_ | i have an awful model, we are rendering on a 4node cluster for two months now to get 20 pctures 1600x1200. maybe adrt might be something if we ever try to get animations. |
| 23:12.38 | brlcad | brl-cad's librt also has an implementation of shirley's photon mapping, but that is a tricky beast for solid models .. |
| 23:13.27 | lg_ | ok, that is a field unknown to me, an optic effect that never (?) appears in architectural scales |
| 23:13.30 | brlcad | adrt has a layer called isst (interactive shot selection tool) that is used for realtime raytracing of very large detailed models (full vehicles) |
| 23:13.47 | brlcad | that obtains about 20-30fps on a 4 node cluster |
| 23:13.55 | lg_ | (while i am not sure if this is really true when i think of a dome covered by specular material) |
| 23:14.52 | lg_ | the model i am talking about is a model of the whole interior of the hagia sophia, with a resolution down to 1x1 cm |
| 23:15.25 | brlcad | a volumetric geometry? |
| 23:15.36 | brlcad | or it is also facetized? |
| 23:15.58 | lg_ | we cannot process it in any cad, we hold a directory tree of geometry files and assemble the model only during the rendering. i once converted it to a vrml and got a 3GB file... |
| 23:16.22 | lg_ | it is not volumetric, it is for radiance, only triangles and polygons |
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| 23:16.54 | brlcad | 3GB isn't that large for us, especially if that's the vrml |
| 23:17.33 | brlcad | that should easily fit in core |
| 23:17.39 | lg_ | the most of the geometry is held in obj and dxf files. i could not browse it at least, for interactive navigation |
| 23:17.59 | lg_ | i should try it? |
| 23:18.11 | brlcad | oh i believe you.. most CAD systems fall apart on large models :) |
| 23:18.53 | brlcad | at least when trying to bring it all up, that's where we generally do much much better assuming the model will at least fit in memory |
| 23:19.06 | lg_ | what kind of input interface could i use? if i have to access it from an own application, what language bindings do exist, what geometry formats are already supported? got curious |
| 23:19.46 | brlcad | depends if you'd want to view it with adrt or librt .. the latter has much more tool support, adrt is going to be much faster for triangles |
| 23:20.12 | lg_ | most cad systems i know have some kind of magic limit for geomety size / memory ;-) |
| 23:20.19 | brlcad | there isn't an obj importer (only an exporter) though.. so some processing would be needed |
| 23:20.46 | lg_ | the idea was to have adtr for setting up a way to animate the whole scene |
| 23:20.48 | brlcad | would be trivial to add one, just nobody has needed it yet |
| 23:20.59 | lg_ | (which is impossible in radiance now) |
| 23:21.07 | bjorkBSD | brlcad, were you the one who mentioned a playstation/xbox keypad interface? |
| 23:21.13 | lg_ | what is supported? |
| 23:21.30 | brlcad | once it's in brl-cad's .g format, getting it to adrt is pretty trivial -- otherwise a direct dump to adrt format is possible as well (it's pretty simple raw format) |
| 23:21.45 | lg_ | don't tell me you are running brlcad on a playstation? ;-) |
| 23:21.55 | lg_ | ok, i can get it into brl-cad format |
| 23:22.02 | brlcad | bjorkBSD: i'm not sure.. doesn't sound familiary |
| 23:22.27 | brlcad | lg_: do you have brl-cad installed now? |
| 23:22.33 | bjorkBSD | eh. a video games interface, basically. |
| 23:22.47 | bjorkBSD | where all you have is the control pad for interacting with it. |
| 23:23.04 | brlcad | lg_: if you do, ls -la /usr/brlcad/bin/*-g are the importers |
| 23:23.22 | lg_ | bjorkBSD, i am wondering if a psp3 will be my next linux installation;-) brlcad, yes of course, i am playing with it, i tested the iges-interface so far |
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| 23:23.34 | brlcad | g-* are the exporters as well as asc2g and g2asc for the ascii intermediate format |
| 23:24.50 | brlcad | most common importers probably being iges, vrml, dxf, off, ply, and stl |
| 23:25.10 | brlcad | there is a binary export plugin for Pro/Engineer if you happen to have that |
| 23:25.31 | lg_ | yes, i would have liked an obj importer, but iges is nice as i can export natively from the modelers |
| 23:25.41 | lg_ | i have most of the model in formz |
| 23:25.43 | brlcad | and a Unigraphics exporter as well, though I haven't compiled that in ages |
| 23:26.09 | lg_ | eh, does the vrml-importer support the old vrml1? |
| 23:26.33 | brlcad | it used to |
| 23:26.35 | brlcad | :) |
| 23:27.10 | lg_ | hm, there is no vrml-g or anything similar |
| 23:27.11 | brlcad | it was updated to vrml 2.0 several years ago without retaining backwards support (don't ask me why..) |
| 23:27.31 | brlcad | ahh, that's right.. i mean the exporter |
| 23:27.57 | bjorkBSD | logo anyone? |
| 23:28.02 | brlcad | vrml is one of the other bastard few importers that hadn't been written yet |
| 23:28.13 | lg_ | than maybe the reason was to get rid of all the vrml-1 related support questions. |
| 23:28.13 | bjorkBSD | repeat 4 [fd 100 left 90] :D |
| 23:28.16 | lg_ | logo? |
| 23:28.19 | brlcad | trivial format, just one more of those things that someone could spend a week or two on |
| 23:28.43 | brlcad | don't generally get CAD solid models in vrml format :) |
| 23:28.47 | bjorkBSD | ANCIENT lisp dialect and turtle geometry platform |
| 23:29.04 | lg_ | yes, i remember, bjork... |
| 23:29.06 | lg_ | ;-) |
| 23:29.12 | bjorkBSD | fun stuff aye? |
| 23:29.53 | lg_ | ok folks, i think my boss will kick me out of the office tomorrow when he finds me sleeping there |
| 23:30.00 | brlcad | heh |
| 23:30.09 | lg_ | it is half past three (in the morning) here! |
| 23:30.11 | brlcad | lg_: good talking to you, hope to see you around more often ;) |
| 23:30.17 | brlcad | where abouts is here? |
| 23:30.22 | bjorkBSD | turkey! |
| 23:30.38 | lg_ | certainly, you have been great help. i am in istanbul, turkey |
| 23:30.40 | brlcad | ~tr |
| 23:30.42 | ibot | turkish is #turklug, or #debian.tr, or trke yardm iin #debian.tr |
| 23:30.48 | brlcad | so it is |
| 23:30.58 | bjorkBSD | ~ibot |
| 23:31.07 | bjorkBSD | oh fine don't talk to me [-( |
| 23:31.11 | bjorkBSD | ~ibot_ |
| 23:31.12 | ibot | well, ibot_ is not me |
| 23:31.18 | lg_ | yes, in fact i am german, but i am living here |
| 23:31.26 | brlcad | lg_: aha |
| 23:31.32 | lg_ | so good night / morning! |
| 23:31.35 | brlcad | ciao! |
| 23:31.43 | brlcad | ~x en de good night! |
| 23:31.47 | bjorkBSD | is ibot a bot? |
| 23:31.56 | lg_ | ;-) |
| 23:31.57 | bjorkBSD | <PROTECTED> |
| 23:32.02 | lg_ | multilingual bot... |
| 23:32.21 | bjorkBSD | ~brl-cad |
| 23:32.22 | ibot | it has been said that brl-cad is a powerful constructive solid geometry solid modeling system that includes an interactive geometry editor, ray tracing support for rendering and geometric analysis, network distributed framebuffer support, image and signal-processing tools. |
| 23:32.27 | lg_ | we say iyi aksamlar here, by the way |
| 23:32.30 | bjorkBSD | <PROTECTED> |
| 23:32.58 | brlcad | lg_: is that turkish? |
| 23:33.02 | lg_ | yes |
| 23:33.32 | lg_ | at least it should be, i am still learning ;-) and it is difficult in irc because all the special characters disappear |
| 23:33.38 | brlcad | bueno, pues.. iyi aksamlar ;) |
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| 23:34.03 | lg_ | great, cu, and thanks for help and nice talk |
| 23:34.08 | lg_ | lars |
| 23:34.16 | *** part/#brlcad lg_ (n=lg_@mstr195175-16578.dial-in.ttnet.net.tr) | |
| 23:34.47 | bjorkBSD | brlcad, do you ever use a lightpen or tablet with brlcad? |
| 23:34.59 | bjorkBSD | seems they're very uncommon. |
| 23:36.30 | brlcad | actually just purchased a tablet to test with brl-cad, should be here next week |
| 23:37.16 | bjorkBSD | how much did it cost? |
| 23:39.07 | brlcad | not much 100-150 or something |
| 23:40.20 | bjorkBSD | definitely not as cheap as a keyboard and mouse :D |
| 23:41.26 | bjorkBSD | the game industry ... i'd love to take a good look at spore sometime. |
| 23:58.26 | ``Erik | neat |
| 23:58.29 | ``Erik | wacom? |
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| 21:30.40 | *** topic/#brlcad is http://brlcad.org/ || BRL-CAD is an open source solid modeling software suite || Developers needed! Read the HACKING file for details on getting involved | |
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| 22:36.48 | CIA-9 | BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/doc/IDEAS: Modify Kaleido to output BRL-CAD geometry ( http://www.math.technion.ac.il/~rl/kaleido/ ) |
| 22:38.43 | fenn | yikes |
| 22:41.29 | brlcad | yikes? |
| 22:41.42 | fenn | i'm trying to imagine some possible use for kaleido |
| 22:41.44 | brlcad | that'd be a fun simple little project :) |
| 22:42.57 | brlcad | not all modeling has to be practical.. you can make some pretty beautiful shapes ;) |
| 22:43.19 | brlcad | http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Great_dirhombicosidodecahedron |
| 22:43.53 | brlcad | pretty darn complex geometry if you add all the actual vertices as little spheres and connecting edges and cylinders |
| 22:45.10 | brlcad | but pretty simple as a union of the basic overlapping shapes |
| 22:46.12 | fenn | would make a cool paper lantern |
| 22:49.00 | brlcad | http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Regular_polytope#Polytopes_in_nature |
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| 23:18.11 | IriX64 | voila... BRL-CAD compiled by and running on CYGWIN_NT |
| 23:19.04 | IriX64 | let me bring it up again, and you can verify with me that all the bits and pieces are there. |
| 23:20.11 | IriX64 | ./mged=initializing and backgrounding please wait... |
| 23:20.20 | IriX64 | well? |
| 23:20.39 | IriX64 | mged command window and graphics window up. |
| 23:22.27 | IriX64 | prim.g raytracing. |
| 23:22.34 | IriX64 | sweet |
| 23:23.35 | IriX64 | nice shape, but will you respect me in the morning? :) |
| 23:23.56 | IriX64 | want a paste of the shot? |
| 23:25.15 | IriX64 | SHOT: cpu = 9.547 sec, elapsed = 61.606 sec |
| 23:25.15 | IriX64 | <PROTECTED> |
| 23:25.15 | IriX64 | <PROTECTED> |
| 23:25.15 | IriX64 | Additional mem=1462272., #malloc=2740, #free=2682, #realloc=695 (58 retained) |
| 23:25.15 | IriX64 | 4294398 solid/ray intersections: 2900070 hits + 1394328 miss |
| 23:25.15 | IriX64 | pruned 67.5%: 0 model RPP, 1686049 dups skipped, 890136 solid RPP |
| 23:25.17 | IriX64 | Frame 0: 476100 pixels in 9.55 sec = 49869.07 pixels/sec |
| 23:25.19 | IriX64 | Frame 0: 1080471 rays in 9.55 sec = 113173.88 rays/sec (RTFM) |
| 23:25.21 | IriX64 | Frame 0: 1080471 rays in 9.55 sec = 113173.88 rays/CPU_sec |
| 23:25.23 | IriX64 | Frame 0: 1080471 rays in 61.61 sec = 17538.41 rays/sec (wallclock) |
| 23:25.25 | IriX64 | Raytrace complete. |
| 23:25.45 | IriX64 | now i'll probably get kicked. |
| 23:27.03 | IriX64 | you have this capability in linuxbrlcad.zip and the source to it in brlcad-10.0.0.bz2.... enjoy. |
| 23:27.30 | IriX64 | those screenshots are *my system at work. |
| 23:27.50 | IriX64 | especially the one rendering havoc. |
| 23:28.06 | fenn | you know we cant see any screenshots right? |
| 23:28.27 | IriX64 | i uploaded them to ftp.brlcad.org. |
| 23:28.37 | IriX64 | shot?.jpg |
| 23:30.12 | IriX64 | back to work on blargh.com :) |
| 23:32.50 | IriX64 | i'll be back to torment you with silence later on ;) |
| 00:30.09 | brlcad | if anyone *really* wants to see what screenshot images he was talking about: http://ftp.brlcad.org/~sean/images/ |
| 02:27.36 | ``Erik | at least he's using bx instead of mirc... |
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| 03:14.12 | IriX64 | bjorkBSD: remember those version numbers? Have you caught up yet? :) |
| 03:57.53 | bjorkBSD | you're compiling for different platforms? |
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| 15:27.55 | CIA-9 | BRL-CAD: 03bob1961 * 10brlcad/src/librt/wdb_obj.c: Minor mods of a few comments. |
| 15:28.03 | brlcad | hmm |
| 15:29.19 | CIA-9 | BRL-CAD: 03bob1961 * 10brlcad/src/librt/view_obj.c: Added the viewDir command. |
| 15:34.04 | CIA-9 | BRL-CAD: 03erikgreenwald * 10brlcad/src/librt/g_metaball.c: minor shot hack for performance, with a tweaked up "final step", this is about 104x faster on my test case |
| 15:37.03 | CIA-9 | BRL-CAD: 03bob1961 * 10brlcad/src/librt/dg_obj.c: Change the conditional from <= to < in a few places to prevent indexing to far. |
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| 15:53.47 | CIA-9 | BRL-CAD: 03bob1961 * 10brlcad/src/tclscripts/lib/View.tcl: Add method/wrapper for the viewDir command. |
| 15:55.45 | CIA-9 | BRL-CAD: 03bob1961 * 10brlcad/src/tclscripts/lib/QuadDisplay.tcl: Add viewDir method. Add methods to support the scale. |
| 15:57.37 | CIA-9 | BRL-CAD: 03bob1961 * 10brlcad/src/tclscripts/lib/ (Dm.tcl Display.tcl): Add support for displaying a scale. |
| 16:00.26 | CIA-9 | BRL-CAD: 03bob1961 * 10brlcad/src/tclscripts/helplib.tcl: Add help for the viewDir command. |
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| 16:09.26 | CIA-9 | BRL-CAD: 03bob1961 * 10brlcad/src/tclscripts/archer/Archer.tcl: Added support for displaying a scale in the geometry window. Added support for dynamically adding methods to the Archer class. |
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| 16:24.42 | CIA-9 | BRL-CAD: 03bob1961 * 10brlcad/src/libdm/dm_obj.c: Add drawScale command. |
| 16:28.29 | CIA-9 | BRL-CAD: 03bob1961 * 10brlcad/src/archer/plugins/Makefile.am: Add Command and Utility to SUBDIRS. |
| 16:43.31 | CIA-9 | BRL-CAD: 03erikgreenwald * 10brlcad/src/librt/g_metaball.c: |
| 16:43.31 | CIA-9 | BRL-CAD: Initial plot impl. |
| 16:43.31 | CIA-9 | BRL-CAD: Removed the 16pt stub (use ell's instead). |
| 16:43.32 | CIA-9 | BRL-CAD: Minor indentation cleanup. |
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| 17:36.26 | IriX64 | Hilarious, my cross-compiler produced a ymp brlcad, now how the hell do I test it. :) |
| 17:36.57 | brlcad | look for a virtual machine? |
| 17:37.11 | brlcad | the history of computing project might support them (though I don't recall seeing them) |
| 17:37.26 | IriX64 | we've had this discussion, vmware doesn't cut it for that. :) |
| 17:37.42 | brlcad | hmm? |
| 17:37.52 | brlcad | no.. i mean a simulation virtual machine |
| 17:38.17 | brlcad | vmware is only x86 iirc anyways.. you'd need one that emulates cray |
| 17:38.49 | IriX64 | simulate unicos? |
| 17:40.17 | IriX64 | i'll build a sparc64 build next :) |
| 17:40.17 | IriX64 | what os do you recommend? sunos or solaris64? |
| 17:40.53 | IriX64 | doubt i'll find any takers, i'm a complete unknown in the industry. |
| 17:42.49 | ``Erik | simh ? |
| 17:43.16 | IriX64 | ``Erik, i'm restricted to x86. |
| 17:43.36 | IriX64 | on what platform? |
| 17:43.58 | ``Erik | if you don't have the hardware or emu's to test a 'cross platform build', why bother? you're just cooking time and cpu for something that probably isn't right... |
| 17:44.13 | ``Erik | why not take a look at the tracker and see if there's something useful you can do? |
| 17:44.18 | ``Erik | :) |
| 17:44.21 | IriX64 | hah prove it isn't right. :) |
| 17:44.46 | IriX64 | sigh i suppose the burden of proof lies with me though. |
| 17:44.55 | brlcad | simh is pretty cool |
| 17:45.03 | brlcad | but I don't think they do cray hardware iirc |
| 17:45.15 | IriX64 | short description please, ive honestly never heard of it. |
| 17:45.15 | ``Erik | I don't remember seeing 'em, but I was after the pdps |
| 17:45.21 | ``Erik | heh, lisp 1.5 on a pdp1, awesome :D |
| 17:45.39 | ``Erik | irix64: http://simh.trailing-edge.com/ |
| 17:45.49 | IriX64 | pdp0 :) |
| 17:45.58 | IriX64 | thankyou. |
| 17:46.00 | brlcad | i'd love to integrate simh as part of the testing for the benchmark suite numbers |
| 17:46.19 | ``Erik | opposed to removing cruft for machines no one uses anymore? :D *duck* |
| 17:46.27 | brlcad | need to compute sphflake on something that'll give a vgr of 1 |
| 17:46.41 | IriX64 | btw i can cross to pdp11 or vaxen. |
| 17:46.52 | ``Erik | there's a sysV image for pdp11 on simh's 'extras' page |
| 17:47.05 | brlcad | more fun to install netbsd |
| 17:47.06 | ``Erik | :> |
| 17:47.20 | ``Erik | I tried to get it running, but I don't think I was wiring the console right |
| 17:47.28 | ``Erik | ooh, v6 and v7, too |
| 17:47.51 | ``Erik | cp/m? ;) |
| 17:47.54 | brlcad | i got it running, played with it for a couple weeks -- had to change some code to get it to behave though, networking stuff iirc |
| 17:47.55 | IriX64 | fine point soldering iron mode engaged ;) |
| 17:48.18 | IriX64 | no dont do the z80, its not in config.sub. |
| 17:48.35 | ``Erik | my first machine ran cp/m on a z80 chip.... coleco adam, yo |
| 17:48.56 | brlcad | getting netbsd in there was quite a feat -- attached the iso as a disk image to simh, dd'd the raw device in simh to get an internal file that I was then able to mount |
| 17:49.12 | ``Erik | hah |
| 17:49.21 | ``Erik | on which machine? |
| 17:49.25 | ``Erik | the pdp11? |
| 17:49.39 | IriX64 | heh mine was called xor. |
| 17:49.50 | brlcad | the vax iirc |
| 17:49.55 | IriX64 | superbrain too i played with. |
| 17:50.22 | IriX64 | ohio scientific, man talk about strange. |
| 17:50.44 | ``Erik | there's a pre-existing netbsd for vax, and a 4.3bsd, dude... |
| 17:51.48 | ``Erik | <-- kinda surprised plot doesn't have access to soltab info |
| 17:52.11 | IriX64 | will this canonicalize --build=sparc64-sun-solaris64 ? |
| 17:52.45 | ``Erik | you probably want --target=, and you have to make sure your CC points to the right cross-compiler... |
| 17:52.59 | IriX64 | its automatic. |
| 17:53.22 | IriX64 | set build if a xcompiler is detected it wioll be used. |
| 17:53.29 | IriX64 | will too. |
| 17:53.50 | ``Erik | ... as long as the crosscompiler is the first thing in the search list or CC is set to it... |
| 17:54.19 | IriX64 | i pasted a config summary here, got my knucles rapped, forget what i was building there though :) |
| 17:54.34 | IriX64 | cc is set to cassie.exe man. |
| 17:54.38 | ``Erik | $ ./config.guess |
| 17:54.38 | ``Erik | sparc-sun-solaris2.8 |
| 17:54.51 | IriX64 | solaris64 |
| 17:55.26 | IriX64 | ld is set to cassield.exe :) |
| 17:55.48 | IriX64 | hand crafted. |
| 17:55.57 | ``Erik | aren't they all? |
| 17:56.16 | IriX64 | there now to start makeing it. |
| 17:57.28 | IriX64 | and in about an hour i'll have some code to inspect. |
| 17:57.47 | IriX64 | hexedit rules :) |
| 17:58.20 | ``Erik | od, yo |
| 17:58.48 | IriX64 | having a problem with crtsuff.c |
| 17:59.54 | IriX64 | multiple definition of __do_sjlj_init but only when i'm building shared libraries, how odd. |
| 18:00.15 | brlcad | ``Erik: which "plot"? |
| 18:04.09 | IriX64 | haha dire straits - money for nothing. |
| 18:06.02 | IriX64 | ValarQ thank you for pointing me to irssi. |
| 18:14.00 | *** join/#brlcad digitalfredy (n=digitalf@200.71.62.161) | |
| 18:20.22 | ``Erik | the librt/g_xxx.c rt_xxx_plot.c func |
| 18:21.00 | ``Erik | for mged wireframe |
| 18:32.46 | IriX64 | errr, bjorkBSD, just which build of BRL-CAD are you playing with? |
| 18:40.02 | IriX64 | bjorkBSD: shot6.jpg on ftp.brlcad.org to show you why my version number is different than yours. :) |
| 18:41.20 | IriX64 | course i just renamed gcc.exe to cassie.exe :) |
| 18:48.50 | IriX64 | in geometry browser double click on the name of an object (not the folder icon but the actual name) does an mged e. |
| 18:53.55 | IriX64 | shot7.jpg on ftp.brlcad.org shows it in operation. |
| 18:56.00 | IriX64 | gotta move my system back downstairs, see youall later. |
| 18:56.20 | brlcad | ``Erik: that's because you have to invoke rt_prep() to compute the soltabs.. mged doesn't (currently) prep anything, only the tracers do |
| 19:12.16 | CIA-9 | BRL-CAD: 03bob1961 * 10brlcad/src/tclscripts/archer/Archer.tcl: Check-in for Doug. Mods to remember the last directory searcher for a database. Added more menu entries for transparency. |
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| 22:03.54 | *** join/#brlcad IriX64 (n=mario_du@toronto-HSE-ppp4303304.sympatico.ca) | |
| 22:07.04 | IriX64 | this is good, but why on earth would anybody need to be on multiple networks at once? Are people built that multi-tasking capable? :) |
| 22:18.16 | ``Erik | networks as in irc networks? |
| 22:18.34 | ``Erik | I'm on 3... this pos, the lame gnome one, and the one true irc net, efnet... |
| 22:25.16 | fenn | i am capable of simultaneously filling many networks of IRC chatrooms with mindless drivel |
| 22:25.21 | IriX64 | with the same client? :) |
| 22:26.21 | fenn | no, my drivel-generating circuitry is powered by a massively parallel multiprocessor core |
| 22:27.20 | IriX64 | massivly... and i'm lost ;) |
| 22:28.30 | fenn | do not despair, lowly human |
| 22:29.47 | IriX64 | CCR anyone? |
| 22:31.01 | IriX64 | Come, CCR = Credence ClearWater Revival. :) |
| 22:33.12 | IriX64 | sigh ... am i the only one who likes Opera? ;) |
| 22:35.07 | IriX64 | pretensious viloence? Alains... get real. |
| 22:35.32 | IriX64 | errr Alanis. |
| 22:37.20 | IriX64 | well breaks over, must return to that which I call work and everybody else calls nonsense. |
| 22:38.23 | IriX64 | before I go tho, did anybody look at those screen shots? |
| 22:39.47 | IriX64 | l8r, not too much l8r but l8r, guys and gals. |
| 23:09.46 | ``Erik | ... some folk are... special. |
| 23:10.18 | ``Erik | how could anyone NOT know ccr? |
| 23:10.37 | ``Erik | I mean, shit, I even play a few of their songs on guitar, and I'm a metal/grunge fucker :) |
| 23:40.08 | *** join/#brlcad ibot (i=ibot@rikers.org) | |
| 23:40.08 | *** topic/#brlcad is http://brlcad.org/ || BRL-CAD is an open source solid modeling software suite || Developers needed! Read the HACKING file for details on getting involved | |
| 00:36.43 | *** join/#brlcad fenn (n=fenn@adsl-68-251-149-137.dsl.bltnin.ameritech.net) | |
| 01:26.53 | Twingy | when do you think we will get parallels |
| 01:27.00 | Twingy | I plan to put 5 partitions on mine |
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| 03:45.40 | IriX64 | ``Erik: finally finished the mod to the Hyper-Transport circuit. |
| 03:46.22 | IriX64 | :) |
| 03:47.13 | IriX64 | Celine Dionne, Falling into you albumn, don't leave home without it. |
| 04:01.36 | IriX64 | mmm should have put fbclear in a different place. |
| 04:03.06 | IriX64 | dual code model works. |
| 04:11.51 | IriX64 | mooooo ;) |
| 04:51.18 | IriX64 | must tend to that hyper transport, ciao |
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| 15:26.14 | CIA-9 | BRL-CAD: 03bob1961 * 10brlcad/src/tclscripts/archer/Archer.tcl: Add code for loading Core plugins |
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| 19:28.34 | IriX64 | urrrr :) |
| 19:28.44 | brlcad | brrr |
| 19:29.02 | IriX64 | <PROTECTED> |
| 19:29.07 | IriX64 | heh :) |
| 19:30.02 | IriX64 | needed too |
| 19:36.15 | IriX64 | urf... how many networks can irssi handle? |
| 19:39.42 | brlcad | not limited |
| 19:39.50 | brlcad | as many as you specify |
| 19:45.49 | IriX64 | i see that. |
| 19:45.54 | ``Erik | not more than 64k on ipv4, though |
| 19:47.01 | *** join/#brlcad IriX64_ (n=IriX64@toronto-HSE-ppp4303304.sympatico.ca) | |
| 19:47.47 | IriX64 | 64k !!??!! |
| 19:48.06 | IriX64 | who in their right mind ... :) |
| 19:59.29 | CIA-9 | BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/archer/plugins/Makefile.am: rename the data dir variable from documentation to plugins to reflect usage intent; add Core to the list of traversal dirs |
| 20:02.11 | CIA-9 | BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/archer/plugins/ (Command/README Core/README Utility/README): add simple initial README file to describe the intended purpose of this directory (i'm guessing here) |
| 20:09.49 | CIA-9 | BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/archer/plugins/ (Utility/Makefile.am Command/Makefile.am Core/Makefile.am): initial Makefile.am file to create this directory as part of the install hierarchy, installing the README as a bit of trivial documentation. |
| 20:25.56 | CIA-9 | BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/configure.ac: generate Makefiles for the src/archer/plugins/Commands Core and Utility directories |
| 21:12.17 | CIA-9 | BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/archer/Makefile.am: oop, readd Commands, Core, and Utility directories |
| 23:04.27 | CIA-9 | BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/archer/Makefile.am: there's the culprit, the files are in plugins, not here.. |
| 23:21.52 | CIA-9 | BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/archer/plugins/ (4 files in 2 dirs): bah, named the directory incorrectly .. files moved from Command to Commands directory |
| 23:23.41 | CIA-9 | BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/archer/plugins/Makefile.am: directory renamed from Command to Commands |
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| 01:38.37 | CIA-9 | BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/doc/description.txt: add a tidbit on some of the humorous incorrect pronounciations that have been overheard as well as an explanation of where the name BRL-CAD comes from |
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| 02:39.15 | CIA-9 | BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/tclscripts/archer/ (Archer.tcl pkgIndex.tcl tclIndex): look for commands in the plugin 'Commands' directory instead of 'Command' to be consistent with 'Wizards' |
| 02:48.15 | *** join/#brlcad ChanServ (ChanServ@services.) | |
| 02:48.15 | *** mode/#brlcad [+o ChanServ] by irc.freenode.net | |
| 02:59.53 | CIA-9 | BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/tclscripts/archer/pkgIndex.tcl: revert the inadvertent loss of the Archer package |
| 03:10.27 | CIA-9 | BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/libfb/tcl.c: go ahead and check for valid parameters to fb_refresh even if this isn't IF_X |
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| 03:13.39 | CIA-9 | BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/mged/ged.c: ws |
| 03:29.50 | *** join/#brlcad ChanServ (ChanServ@services.) | |
| 03:29.50 | *** mode/#brlcad [+o ChanServ] by irc.freenode.net | |
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| 03:34.24 | *** mode/#brlcad [+o ChanServ] by irc.freenode.net | |
| 03:39.19 | CIA-9 | BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/ (20 files in 3 dirs): |
| 03:39.19 | CIA-9 | BRL-CAD: move the Pro/Engineer plugin from misc/pro-engineer to src/external/ProEngineer. |
| 03:39.19 | CIA-9 | BRL-CAD: the new src/external directory is intended for all of the codes that are written |
| 03:39.19 | CIA-9 | BRL-CAD: to work with and link against external packages (often as a plugin to said |
| 03:39.19 | CIA-9 | BRL-CAD: external package) |
| 03:42.13 | CIA-9 | BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/Makefile.am: traverse into src/external for all builds since there may be something to build in there if it was enabled |
| 03:44.04 | CIA-9 | BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/configure.ac: misc/pro-engineer was moved to src/external so update the output Makefiles accordingly as well as the new src/external/Makefile and the plugin resource files |
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| 03:56.56 | CIA-9 | BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/external/README: describe the contents of this directory and its intent |
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| 03:58.18 | CIA-9 | BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/external/Makefile.am: distribute the new README as part of the source dist (oh yeah, the README also includes details on the Pro/Engineer plugin for starters) |
| 04:01.05 | CIA-9 | BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/configure.ac: add some additional pro/engineer enable aliases |
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| 14:48.02 | CIA-9 | BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/ (14 files in 2 dirs): moved the Unigraphics importer from src/conv/unigraphics to src/external/Unigraphics since it requires the external UGOPEN library api. |
| 14:49.06 | CIA-9 | BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/conv/Makefile.am: the unigraphics directory is no longer stashed here, it moved to src/external/Unigraphics |
| 14:50.15 | CIA-9 | BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/external/Makefile.am: add Unigraphics to the subdirectory list, moved over from src/conv/unigraphics to here since it relies on the external UGOPEN api/libraries |
| 14:51.11 | CIA-9 | BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/configure.ac: src/conv/unigraphics was moved to src/external/Unigraphics, so update the corresponding Makefile generation |
| 14:54.55 | CIA-9 | BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/external/README: include a blurb about the Unigraphics/NX importer. |
| 15:01.28 | CIA-9 | BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/configure.ac: add configuration options supporting the Unigraphics importer, providing the BUILD_UG symbol if it is to be compiled (used in src/external) |
| 15:05.01 | CIA-9 | BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/external/ProEngineer/.cvsignore: oop, forgot to add the .cvsignore file moved from misc/pro-engineer. add it. |
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| 18:18.13 | IriX64 | pleasure to meet you all. |
| 18:20.32 | IriX64 | is ftp.brlcad.org maintained by you people? |
| 18:22.46 | IriX64 | urrr theres a skunk in the house. |
| 18:26.40 | IriX64 | the geometry editor is quite good. |
| 18:27.06 | IriX64 | err browser. |
| 18:28.44 | IriX64 | terra.g loads but when trying to display it crashes. |
| 18:29.56 | IriX64 | null mapped bu-pointer line 3135 but i forget the filname might have been g-disp.. |
| 18:34.02 | IriX64 | $ ERROR: NULL bu_mapped_file pointer, file g_dsp.c, line 3135 |
| 18:46.48 | IriX64 | would you like a paste of my current Shot: ? |
| 18:47.54 | IriX64 | SHOT: cpu = 4.938 sec, elapsed = 194.606 sec |
| 18:47.54 | IriX64 | <PROTECTED> |
| 18:47.55 | IriX64 | <PROTECTED> |
| 18:47.55 | IriX64 | Additional mem=1482752., #malloc=795, #free=706, #realloc=17 (89 retained) |
| 18:47.55 | IriX64 | 3224618 solid/ray intersections: 891704 hits + 2332914 miss |
| 18:47.55 | IriX64 | pruned 27.7%: 306831 model RPP, 1824609 dups skipped, 736889 solid RPP |
| 18:47.57 | IriX64 | Frame 0: 476100 pixels in 4.94 sec = 96415.55 pixels/sec |
| 18:47.59 | IriX64 | Frame 0: 659931 rays in 4.94 sec = 133643.38 rays/sec (RTFM) |
| 18:48.01 | IriX64 | Frame 0: 659931 rays in 4.94 sec = 133643.38 rays/CPU_sec |
| 18:48.03 | IriX64 | Frame 0: 659931 rays in 194.61 sec = 3391.11 rays/sec (wallclock) |
| 18:48.05 | IriX64 | Raytrace complete. |
| 18:48.31 | IriX64 | mged> i took your silence as a yes. |
| 18:48.35 | IriX64 | :) |
| 18:49.28 | IriX64 | RTFM = Real Time Frame Measurement? ;) |
| 18:51.26 | *** join/#brlcad digitalfredy (n=digitalf@200.71.62.161) | |
| 18:51.52 | IriX64 | SHOT: cpu = 4.938 sec, elapsed = 194.606 sec |
| 18:51.52 | IriX64 | <PROTECTED> |
| 18:51.52 | IriX64 | <PROTECTED> |
| 18:51.53 | IriX64 | Additional mem=1482752., #malloc=795, #free=706, #realloc=17 (89 retained) |
| 18:51.53 | IriX64 | 3224618 solid/ray intersections: 891704 hits + 2332914 miss |
| 18:51.55 | IriX64 | pruned 27.7%: 306831 model RPP, 1824609 dups skipped, 736889 solid RPP |
| 18:51.57 | IriX64 | Frame 0: 476100 pixels in 4.94 sec = 96415.55 pixels/sec |
| 18:51.59 | IriX64 | Frame 0: 659931 rays in 4.94 sec = 133643.38 rays/sec (RTFM) |
| 18:52.01 | IriX64 | Frame 0: 659931 rays in 4.94 sec = 133643.38 rays/CPU_sec |
| 18:52.03 | IriX64 | Frame 0: 659931 rays in 194.61 sec = 3391.11 rays/sec (wallclock) |
| 18:52.05 | IriX64 | Raytrace complete. |
| 18:52.07 | IriX64 | mged> urgggh sorry. |
| 18:56.08 | IriX64 | mged> Building Photon Map: |
| 18:56.09 | IriX64 | <PROTECTED> |
| 18:56.09 | IriX64 | <PROTECTED> |
| 18:56.09 | IriX64 | mged> |
| 18:56.09 | IriX64 | HitGB: 16384,3708 |
| 18:56.09 | IriX64 | Scale Factor: 227.108 |
| 18:56.11 | IriX64 | EPL: 2936811, Adjusted EPL: 2394819 |
| 18:56.13 | IriX64 | <PROTECTED> |
| 18:56.15 | IriX64 | <PROTECTED> |
| 18:58.30 | IriX64 | mged> /me wonders how long this will take. |
| 18:58.37 | IriX64 | err |
| 18:59.58 | ValarQ | IriX64: still got pasting problems? |
| 19:00.36 | IriX64 | yeah, finally figured it out though i think. |
| 19:01.00 | IriX64 | the two environments insist on exclusicve clipboard :) |
| 19:03.50 | IriX64 | when this is done, gonna try my latest build. |
| 19:05.05 | IriX64 | aborted it, installing now im an impatient little sot :) |
| 19:17.57 | siggraph | at 3k rays/sec wallclock, photon mapping would take way way too long |
| 19:18.08 | IriX64 | ray tracing with photon mapping now. |
| 19:18.23 | IriX64 | we'll see. |
| 19:19.18 | siggraph | something still really wrong with your performance numbers .. the rtfm and wallclock should be within at least 10% of each other |
| 19:19.40 | IriX64 | shouldn't have visualized the irradience cache, this is gonna take a while. |
| 19:19.57 | siggraph | has it even said 10% progress yet? :) |
| 19:20.20 | IriX64 | overlaps in havoc cluters the output area. |
| 19:20.24 | siggraph | it gives progress numbers, and it WILL take at least 10 times as long as rt to run unless you pick the worst settings |
| 19:20.43 | IriX64 | did slap me quick :) |
| 19:21.54 | IriX64 | OVERLAP1: /havoc/main_rotor/mr_bldassys/mr_bldassy101/mr_bldroot101/r.bld101 |
| 19:21.54 | IriX64 | OVERLAP2: /havoc/main_rotor/mr_bldassys/mr_bldassy101/mr_spinatch101/r.rot140 |
| 19:21.54 | IriX64 | OVERLAPa: dist=(1602.56,1602.56) isol=s.rot141.i osol=s.rot141 |
| 19:21.54 | IriX64 | OVERLAPb: depth 0.00312mm at (11525.2, -686.324, 2993.31) x0 y0 lvl0 |
| 19:21.54 | IriX64 | (overlaps omitted) |
| 19:21.54 | IriX64 | OVERLAP1: /havoc/main_rotor/mr_bldassys/mr_bldassy101/mr_bldroot101/r.bld101 |
| 19:21.56 | IriX64 | OVERLAP2: /havoc/main_rotor/mr_bldassys/mr_bldassy101/mr_spinatch101/r.rot140 |
| 19:21.58 | IriX64 | OVERLAPa: dist=(3911.53,3911.53) isol=s.rot141.i osol=s.rot141 |
| 19:22.05 | IriX64 | thats whats going on. |
| 19:22.26 | IriX64 | heh sorry. |
| 19:22.33 | siggraph | feel free to fix them and submit an updaated havoc.g |
| 19:22.49 | IriX64 | all right if you fix april.g ;) |
| 19:23.10 | siggraph | i'd send you something like april.g if you did that |
| 19:23.39 | IriX64 | im lousy at cadding, use other peoples work to do my testing. |
| 19:24.22 | IriX64 | irradiance cache progress 50% |
| 19:24.26 | siggraph | fixing overlaps is pretty easy .. you run rtcheck and it'll highlight the overlapping areas -- outputs a list of the geometry pairs too |
| 19:24.45 | siggraph | usually a simple matter of moving one object ever so slightly or subtracting one from the other |
| 19:24.58 | siggraph | the one you pasted overlaps by just 0.00312mm |
| 19:25.05 | IriX64 | why not use the overlap tool ? |
| 19:25.26 | siggraph | could use that too |
| 19:25.35 | IriX64 | smokeity smoke time bbiab. |
| 19:26.19 | siggraph | woo.. new macbook pro has a VGR count of roughly 4800k... nice.. |
| 19:26.29 | siggraph | s/00k/00/ |
| 19:35.09 | ``Erik | o.O |
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| 20:25.14 | IriX64 | well it did it. |
| 20:26.41 | IriX64 | what are you expecting another paste? :) |
| 20:27.06 | IriX64 | my paste buffer runneth over :) |
| 20:28.07 | IriX64 | siggraph: havoc.g your effort? |
| 20:34.07 | IriX64 | no treads on the tires, just like the deauce and a half :) |
| 20:44.07 | IriX64 | sweet s zoomed view, lets try a rotated view. |
| 20:45.37 | IriX64 | she's showing me her underbelly :) |
| 20:49.48 | IriX64 | would be too hard to paste this into the channel, but if anybody wants a screen shot ill supply. |
| 20:55.21 | IriX64 | ok ive played with 5-click long enough time to buy the little gem, ill be away for a bit. |
| 21:05.03 | IriX64 | there legally mine. |
| 21:30.35 | IriX64 | bbiab |
| 21:40.40 | *** join/#brlcad IriX64 (n=IriX64@toronto-HSE-ppp4304467.sympatico.ca) | |
| 22:01.13 | *** join/#brlcad boemann (n=cbr@213.237.55.84.adsl.nivaa.worldonline.dk) | |
| 22:01.19 | boemann | Hi there |
| 22:01.35 | boemann | a quick question not really related to brl |
| 22:02.11 | boemann | Are homogenous coordinates need internally in a cad application? |
| 22:02.39 | boemann | or will x,y,z do for storage and manipulation |
| 22:13.00 | boemann | never mind - stupid question of course they are |
| 22:13.34 | *** part/#brlcad boemann (n=cbr@213.237.55.84.adsl.nivaa.worldonline.dk) | |
| 22:38.38 | IriX64 | mmm a monolouge ;) |
| 22:47.01 | IriX64 | | bjorkBSD (n=bjork@ip70-178-169-173.ks.ks.cox.net) (Network) |
| 22:47.01 | IriX64 | 3 ircname : bjork whoElse? |
| 22:47.01 | IriX64 | | channels : ##opera ##freebsd #openlaszlo #brlcad #r |
| 22:47.01 | IriX64 | 3 server : irc.freenode.net (http://freenode.net/) |
| 22:47.06 | IriX64 | <PROTECTED> |
| 22:47.19 | IriX64 | #opera? |
| 22:47.56 | IriX64 | werks ;) |
| 22:48.46 | *** join/#brlcad DTRemenak|RDP (n=DTRemena@c-24-23-59-104.hsd1.ca.comcast.net) | |
| 22:50.57 | IriX64 | [ctcp(bjorkBSD)] VERSION |
| 22:50.57 | IriX64 | <PROTECTED> |
| 22:50.57 | IriX64 | <PROTECTED> |
| 22:50.57 | IriX64 | [ctcp(IriX64)] VERSION |
| 22:50.57 | IriX64 | >>> IriX64 [n=IriX64@toronto-HSE-ppp4304467.sympatico.ca] requested VERSION |
| 22:50.57 | IriX64 | <PROTECTED> |
| 22:50.59 | IriX64 | <PROTECTED> |
| 22:51.01 | IriX64 | <PROTECTED> |
| 22:51.22 | IriX64 | bjorkBSD wheres you get the xchat source? |
| 02:00.20 | *** join/#brlcad Twingy (n=justin@c-69-250-236-111.hsd1.md.comcast.net) | |
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| 04:36.24 | *** join/#brlcad ibot (i=ibot@pdpc/supporter/active/TimRiker/bot/apt) | |
| 04:36.24 | *** topic/#brlcad is http://brlcad.org/ || BRL-CAD is an open source solid modeling software suite || Developers needed! Read the HACKING file for details on getting involved | |
| 05:15.47 | *** join/#brlcad ibot (i=ibot@rikers.org) | |
| 05:15.47 | *** topic/#brlcad is http://brlcad.org/ || BRL-CAD is an open source solid modeling software suite || Developers needed! Read the HACKING file for details on getting involved | |
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| 18:48.47 | *** join/#brlcad bryan_ (n=bryan@adsl-68-253-230-65.dsl.dytnoh.ameritech.net) | |
| 18:48.53 | bryan_ | hello |
| 18:49.16 | bryan_ | I have read in a few places about the new "archer" interface. |
| 18:49.29 | bryan_ | What is the purpose of this GUI? |
| 18:49.45 | siggraph | hello bryan_ |
| 18:49.57 | bryan_ | it doesn't run on my linux pc, and it looks like it might be developed on win32 first |
| 18:50.10 | bryan_ | do you know anything about this sig? |
| 18:50.14 | ``Erik | it was |
| 18:50.22 | siggraph | it was, though it only needs a few tweaks for linux |
| 18:50.26 | bryan_ | ok. |
| 18:50.29 | siggraph | it also works on linux |
| 18:50.32 | bryan_ | well what is it? |
| 18:50.37 | siggraph | doesn't work on os x yet (minor issue) |
| 18:50.58 | bryan_ | It throws errors including but not limited to can't find package blt |
| 18:51.01 | siggraph | it's basically the beginning of a new modeler, written using much of mged as a foundation |
| 18:51.14 | bryan_ | that's what i figured looking at the code |
| 18:51.17 | ``Erik | heh |
| 18:51.24 | bryan_ | but couldn't get it to run properly |
| 18:51.24 | siggraph | yeah, the package search for blt is not working right, have to manually set some things for it to find blt |
| 18:51.34 | bryan_ | hmm |
| 18:51.45 | bryan_ | I have installed blt, but have no experience with tcl |
| 18:51.52 | siggraph | basically, if you're at all familiar with mged, it's mged with an interface that sucks less *ss |
| 18:51.57 | bryan_ | how does one set this up to work? |
| 18:52.08 | bryan_ | i was hoping that was what it was |
| 18:52.15 | siggraph | howdy ``Erik .. guess where i'm at :) |
| 18:52.24 | bryan_ | I have been kisking around the idea of writing such a thing |
| 18:52.27 | bryan_ | kicking |
| 18:52.42 | siggraph | ahh |
| 18:53.07 | bryan_ | i have used proe, soliddge, unigraphics, solidworks, etc and they are all getting nice GUIs |
| 18:53.13 | ``Erik | bitch |
| 18:53.41 | siggraph | it's not exactly simple to explain how to get it working beyond "it's not ready for linux just quite yet (couple days/weeks)" .. otherwise it's a matter of tcl search path configuration |
| 18:53.42 | bryan_ | and brlcad seems to be powerful, but about 5 years behing in the usability category |
| 18:53.50 | ``Erik | ohyeah, and kick lee in the butt for me, too |
| 18:53.52 | siggraph | heh 5 years |
| 18:53.55 | ``Erik | ass kickings for everyone. |
| 18:53.55 | siggraph | that's being generous |
| 18:54.14 | ``Erik | tim and chuck, too |
| 18:54.15 | ``Erik | yo |
| 18:54.17 | ``Erik | :/ |
| 18:54.20 | bryan_ | well it's about on par with proe 2000 so call it 7 years |
| 18:54.22 | ``Erik | I'm grousy and unhappy. |
| 18:54.24 | siggraph | ``Erik: I'll convery the information while I go bask in the hot tub.. hold on |
| 18:54.31 | ``Erik | ... |
| 18:54.33 | ``Erik | 'fucker |
| 18:54.35 | siggraph | hehe |
| 18:55.01 | siggraph | bryan_: yeah, the features are definitely there .. there's a solid 100+ manyears of development effort invested |
| 18:55.02 | ``Erik | :> |
| 18:55.04 | bryan_ | i'm new here, could I opt out of the ass kickings? |
| 18:55.16 | bryan_ | I can see that |
| 18:55.42 | bryan_ | I'm laid up with an achilles tear and I've been browsing the source for mged |
| 18:55.51 | siggraph | bryan_: he's just bitter because several of the devs are up at the annual ACM Siggraph conference and he's not |
| 18:55.59 | bryan_ | ah |
| 18:56.10 | bryan_ | well it beats being stuck on a sofa |
| 18:56.11 | siggraph | it's a rather fun conference to say the least |
| 18:56.17 | bryan_ | like I am |
| 18:56.23 | siggraph | heh |
| 18:56.29 | ``Erik | bryan: if you're not one of the few folk who get paychecks from teh same place as me, but DID get to go to siggraph this year, you are exempt. |
| 18:56.57 | bryan_ | so the tcl search paths ought to be explained on the tcl site? |
| 18:57.11 | ``Erik | fucking stupid motherfucking fucking goddamn fucking ... |
| 18:57.17 | ``Erik | mebbe next year I'll present there, hah. |
| 18:57.18 | ``Erik | :( |
| 18:57.20 | ``Erik | fuk |
| 18:57.23 | ``Erik | FUX |
| 18:57.39 | ``Erik | O.o |
| 18:57.49 | ``Erik | *pissed* |
| 18:57.58 | ``Erik | almost as much as the fucking bsdcan episode |
| 18:58.05 | ``Erik | oooohhhhh I was fucking pissed |
| 18:58.05 | siggraph | innovate that metaball, make it sweet, write a paper |
| 18:58.11 | ``Erik | that's the plan. |
| 18:58.28 | ``Erik | I've yet to find anything approaching a reasonable bounding sphere for a metaball. |
| 18:58.50 | siggraph | bryan_: yes, it is.. though I could probably condense it all if you wait a little bit for me to look at the code |
| 18:59.20 | siggraph | probably just a matter of copying the blt directory into a path that is already being searched will be the easiest |
| 18:59.32 | ``Erik | thanks for the book, btw... couldn't find a name in it... if ya do that, you probably should at LEAST slap a postit on it... |
| 18:59.32 | ``Erik | :) |
| 18:59.36 | bryan_ | i'll try that |
| 18:59.43 | ``Erik | otherwise, your library will dwindle ;) |
| 18:59.48 | siggraph | heh |
| 18:59.51 | siggraph | it's a great book |
| 19:00.05 | ``Erik | it's a tiny book, but it looks reasonably dense |
| 19:00.09 | siggraph | pretty dense on the math and sparse on the explanations, but good summary |
| 19:00.54 | ``Erik | I've had good math-heavy discussions with several math doctorates recently, if I NEED help groking the math, I have people to lean on :) |
| 19:00.59 | siggraph | plus it's got everything in context with the "big picture", so you can see what else has been done |
| 19:01.26 | siggraph | how metaballs relate to blending in general for example |
| 19:01.35 | ``Erik | the latest wench happens to irc as well and intro'd me to a math phd whom I chattered with at lenght, he's "bored" and looking for mental exercises, heh |
| 19:01.51 | ``Erik | (the latest wench is finishing up a masters in math, to boot) |
| 19:02.06 | ``Erik | irritating that she's like 6mo younger than me and ahead of me on ed :/ |
| 19:02.08 | ``Erik | :D |
| 19:16.50 | siggraph | bryan_: try "export ARCHER_HOME=/usr/brlcad" then run archer again |
| 19:16.55 | siggraph | that alone just might do the trick |
| 19:17.46 | ``Erik | hah... PROG_HOME is so... archaic. |
| 19:18.00 | bryan_ | ok |
| 19:18.21 | ``Erik | writing yesteryears software tomorrow. |
| 19:18.22 | ``Erik | :( |
| 19:19.12 | ``Erik | and seriously, dude, pimpslap lee for me :) the bitch is chillin' at fucking siggraph all glossyeyed and pimp promo shit, meanwhile the folk who could BENEFIT are sitting at home being grousy :D |
| 19:19.14 | ``Erik | *duck* |
| 19:19.19 | bryan_ | nah still get the error message |
| 19:20.07 | ``Erik | is there anything in the paperwork on implicit surfaces? |
| 19:20.38 | ``Erik | I mean, the $1500 to send me there would probably save more than 10k of my time, hah. |
| 19:20.38 | ``Erik | :(* |
| 19:20.45 | ``Erik | *grouse* |
| 19:20.54 | ``Erik | stupid fucking gov't |
| 19:20.56 | ``Erik | *shakes fist** |
| 19:22.11 | ``Erik | <-- angry, and drinkin', so doubly angry :D |
| 19:26.05 | siggraph | evidently so |
| 19:26.21 | siggraph | (from the Siggraph Store) |
| 19:26.31 | ``Erik | 1heh |
| 19:26.33 | siggraph | bryan_: hrmph |
| 19:26.59 | ``Erik | do the pills have a fancy crescent and say 'S06' on 'em? |
| 19:27.01 | ``Erik | :/ |
| 19:27.04 | siggraph | bryan_: what does this report: find /usr/brlcad -type d -name blt2.4 |
| 19:27.25 | ``Erik | if the fucking wench wasn't gone to go to a wedding, I'd be breaking the bitch to try to calm down some. |
| 19:27.30 | ``Erik | *grouse* |
| 19:27.32 | siggraph | nah, that was last years, this years is silver |
| 19:27.39 | bryan_ | /usr/brlcad/lib/blt2.4 |
| 19:27.47 | ``Erik | just plain silver? no "06"? |
| 19:27.58 | bryan_ | sig, how do I send pm's in irc? |
| 19:27.59 | siggraph | says boston06 |
| 19:28.09 | siggraph | bryan_: /msg siggraph message |
| 19:28.14 | bryan_ | danke |
| 19:28.16 | ``Erik | bryan: /msg username msg |
| 19:28.18 | ``Erik | heh |
| 19:28.43 | siggraph | too slow drunky |
| 19:28.51 | ``Erik | and this net sucks, so if the person you want to message hasn't done something special, you need to be 'registered'... |
| 19:28.58 | ``Erik | good thing mr sean has 'done something special' |
| 19:29.12 | ``Erik | drunky? why, I oughta smack the shit outta you :D |
| 19:29.32 | siggraph | i'll sit by the pool waiting |
| 19:29.44 | siggraph | with my martini |
| 19:30.05 | siggraph | actually.. i could go for a mojito |
| 20:47.48 | *** join/#brlcad danfalck (n=dan@pool-71-111-76-8.ptldor.dsl-w.verizon.net) | |
| 21:30.40 | *** join/#brlcad IriX64 (n=IriX64@toronto-HSE-ppp4304848.sympatico.ca) | |
| 21:30.56 | IriX64 | hecklers back :) |
| 21:32.48 | IriX64 | you know ./mged -c mode. |
| 21:36.21 | siggraph | IriX64: 'tops' will give a list of geometry -- 'e object' will display "object" |
| 21:47.01 | ``Erik | -c is awesome |
| 21:47.21 | ``Erik | did you 'attach' a display type? |
| 21:47.25 | ``Erik | like, X or gl? |
| 21:47.45 | ``Erik | <-- usually says "nu" when starting in -c, but has different intentions for using the thing |
| 21:49.20 | IriX64 | nu |
| 21:49.26 | siggraph | then type gui |
| 21:49.35 | IriX64 | thankyou. |
| 21:50.07 | CIA-9 | BRL-CAD: 03lbutler * 10brlcad/ (COPYING INSTALL include/machine.h src/libbu/parallel.c): changes to support Intel Mac parallel code |
| 21:50.20 | ``Erik | oh shit, what did he break now |
| 21:50.55 | IriX64 | dm_bestXtype invalid command name. |
| 21:51.15 | siggraph | well for starters, he blew away COPYING and INSTALL |
| 21:53.12 | ``Erik | sean, you have my permission to walk over and backhand him as hard as you can. :D |
| 21:57.10 | CIA-9 | BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/INSTALL: revert -- I doubt these changes support the intel mac parallel code.. careful not to commit INSTALL as it is often automatically overwritten by automake |
| 21:57.40 | ``Erik | *snicker* |
| 21:57.54 | ``Erik | that's a very polite and civil way to phrase it :D |
| 21:57.56 | CIA-9 | BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/COPYING: revert -- I doubt these changes support the intel mac parallel code.. careful not to commit COPYING as it is often automatically overwritten by automake |
| 22:36.58 | IriX64 | $ aclocal |
| 22:36.58 | IriX64 | S |
| 22:36.58 | IriX64 | <PROTECTED> |
| 22:36.58 | IriX64 | <PROTECTED> |
| 22:36.59 | IriX64 | I |
| 22:36.59 | IriX64 | IBMCRYPT |
| 22:37.01 | IriX64 | IBGCRYPT |
| 22:37.03 | IriX64 | T2 |
| 22:37.05 | IriX64 | NIT |
| 22:37.07 | IriX64 | aclocal:configure.ac:2765: warning: macro `AM_PATH_SDL' not found in library |
| 22:40.06 | IriX64 | checking whether dependency tracking should be enabled... no |
| 22:40.07 | IriX64 | checking for a BSD-compatible install... /usr/bin/install -c |
| 22:40.07 | IriX64 | checking whether build environment is sane... yes |
| 22:40.07 | IriX64 | checking for gawk... gawk |
| 22:40.07 | IriX64 | checking whether make sets $(MAKE)... yes |
| 22:40.07 | IriX64 | checking whether to enable maintainer-specific portions of Makefiles... no |
| 22:40.09 | IriX64 | ./configure: line 2271: syntax error near unexpected token `COPYING' |
| 22:40.11 | IriX64 | ./configure: line 2271: `BC_RESTORE_CLOBBERED(COPYING INSTALL, misc)' |
| 22:40.13 | IriX64 | IriX64@hagarsfi-f038a0 ~/brlcad-10.0.0 |
| 22:40.59 | IriX64 | autoconf autoheader automake produced no warnings or erros. |
| 22:41.07 | IriX64 | errors too. |
| 22:41.46 | IriX64 | and don't tell me to fix it :) |
| 22:42.18 | IriX64 | time to refresh my code tree i guess. |
| 22:45.33 | IriX64 | fixed... the easy way, i leave the real work to you :) |
| 22:46.05 | IriX64 | don't ignore it, it won't go away. :) |
| 22:57.36 | IriX64 | maybe should be AM_PATH_TO_SDL ? :) |
| 23:00.02 | IriX64 | not it. |
| 23:05.53 | IriX64 | dnl works *shrug* |
| 02:49.16 | IriX64 | #*#*#*#*#*#*#*#*#*#*#*#*#*#*#*#*#*#*#*#*#*#*#*#*#*#*#*#*#*#*#*#*#*#*#*#*#*#*#*# |
| 02:49.16 | IriX64 | Benchmark results indicate an approximate VGR performance metric of 1274 |
| 02:49.16 | IriX64 | Logarithmic VGR metric is 3.11 (natural logarithm is 7.15) |
| 02:49.16 | IriX64 | #*#*#*#*#*#*#*#*#*#*#*#*#*#*#*#*#*#*#*#*#*#*#*#*#*#*#*#*#*#*#*#*#*#*#*#*#*#*#*# |
| 02:49.17 | IriX64 | These numbers seem to indicate that this machine is approximately 1274 times |
| 02:49.19 | IriX64 | faster than the reference machine being used for comparison, a VAX 11/780 |
| 02:49.21 | IriX64 | running 4.3 BSD named VGR. These results are in fact approximately 3.11 |
| 02:49.23 | IriX64 | orders of magnitude faster than the reference. |
| 02:53.42 | *** join/#brlcad IriX64_ (n=IriX64@toronto-HSE-ppp4304848.sympatico.ca) | |
| 02:56.29 | IriX64 | refreshed my code tree and i'm back at 7.8.2 :) |
| 03:02.40 | IriX64 | BRL-CAD: truck.g put treads on the tires. :) |
| 03:05.49 | IriX64 | overlap 2 of 2 object1: /g4/r59 overlaps object2: /g4/r74 by as much as 0.100005 in. |
| 03:07.08 | IriX64 | Ray spacing (in) 3.93700 |
| 03:11.10 | IriX64 | fixed, no more overlaps. |
| 03:15.20 | IriX64 | can't get mged -c to like me though ahh well. |
| 03:46.34 | IriX64 | ./configure --enable-almost-everything --with-x --enable-math --enable-optimizations --disable-symbols --disable-debug. |
| 03:46.47 | IriX64 | well compare benchmarks after this ok? |
| 03:47.40 | IriX64 | yah well mine compiles in .01 to the point ought fall he said :) |
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| 12:18.22 | CIA-9 | BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/include/rtgeom.h: can only use 4 bytes, not 5 on the RT_METABALL_INTERNAL_MAGIC .. made it 'ball' instead of 'mball' |
| 16:03.43 | *** part/#brlcad danfalck (n=dan@pool-71-111-76-8.ptldor.dsl-w.verizon.net) | |
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| 18:36.43 | CIA-9 | BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/configure.ac: make the 'whether to build against OpenGL' test actually run a function that it has to link against so that it doesn't erroneously pass and leave OpgnGL enabled when there is no library but headers exist. |
| 18:51.30 | CIA-9 | BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/misc/Makefile.am: pro/e is no longer in this directory, same logic moved to src/external |
| 18:54.39 | CIA-9 | BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/sh/lines.sh: initial revision of a new tool that computes how many lines of code BRL-CAD uses. this separates the code into various categories such as documentation, build system, non-project code, and the actual source code. |
| 18:54.39 | CIA-9 | BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/sh/Makefile.am: add the new lines.sh script |
| 18:55.50 | CIA-9 | BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/README: add an introductory header that hopefully better explains the various content in the src/ directory as well as a basic summary of just what it comprises before getting into the individual content dirs |
| 18:57.32 | CIA-9 | BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/libdm/clip.c: quell warning on INFINITY (again), instead renaming the define to CLIP_DISTANCE (just without changing the value this time) |
| 18:59.05 | CIA-9 | BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/ (sig/interp.c rt/viewxray.c): quell warning |
| 18:59.28 | CIA-9 | BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/util/lowp.c: missing std headers |
| 20:05.14 | CIA-9 | BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/sh/lines.sh: consistent line lengths |
| 20:53.47 | IriX64 | $ mged |
| 20:53.47 | IriX64 | Initializing and backgrounding, please wait...Done |
| 20:55.41 | IriX64 | showoff ;) |
| 20:56.20 | IriX64 | think i'll "go ahead and have a look around" ;) |
| 20:59.14 | CIA-9 | BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/sh/lines.sh: |
| 20:59.14 | CIA-9 | BRL-CAD: instead of using the 'total' summary from the wc command, calculate the sum |
| 20:59.14 | CIA-9 | BRL-CAD: directly ourselves using a simple sum function. this slows things down |
| 20:59.14 | CIA-9 | BRL-CAD: considerably, but is necessary to avoid the default behavior of xargs on linux |
| 20:59.14 | CIA-9 | BRL-CAD: that can break up a piped stream into multiple invocations (resulting in |
| 20:59.17 | CIA-9 | BRL-CAD: multiple total lines). |
| 21:00.30 | IriX64 | xargs cab be disabled on the fly in linux, try that. |
| 21:00.44 | IriX64 | can too :) |
| 21:01.20 | IriX64 | ./disable xargs(); |
| 21:01.34 | IriX64 | ./do what you want(); |
| 21:01.43 | IriX64 | ./enable xargs(); |
| 21:02.16 | IriX64 | look up spawn. |
| 21:03.27 | IriX64 | time to offer tobbaco to manitou, bbiab. |
| 21:26.26 | CIA-9 | BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/NEWS: |
| 21:26.26 | CIA-9 | BRL-CAD: new script for computing BRL-CAD file line counts. this computes the line |
| 21:26.27 | CIA-9 | BRL-CAD: counts of the various categories of files in the project including |
| 21:26.27 | CIA-9 | BRL-CAD: documentation, source code (distinguishing header code from non-header source |
| 21:26.27 | CIA-9 | BRL-CAD: code), 3rd party code (e.g. tcl/tk, png, urt, etc), and build system files. |
| 23:28.19 | *** join/#brlcad danfalck (n=dan@pool-71-111-76-8.ptldor.dsl-w.verizon.net) | |
| 02:26.22 | IriX64 | photon mapping engaged. |
| 02:27.01 | IriX64 | <PROTECTED> |
| 02:27.01 | IriX64 | <PROTECTED> |
| 02:27.01 | IriX64 | <PROTECTED> |
| 02:32.40 | Twingy | heh |
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| 08:59.46 | *** join/#brlcad Urielll (n=urielll@uriel.il.ircnet.net) | |
| 09:01.23 | Urielll | Hello everyone, how do I run brlcad on windows? |
| 09:03.08 | ValarQ | Urielll: have you checked the README.Windows ? |
| 09:05.15 | Urielll | Hmm I can't find this file on the MS packge |
| 09:05.54 | ValarQ | oh well, it wasn't very usefull... |
| 09:07.30 | Urielll | Ah, looks like I downloaded the wrong files |
| 09:08.11 | Urielll | Thanks anyway ;) |
| 09:08.14 | ValarQ | the windows packages doesn't seem to contain very much |
| 09:09.00 | ValarQ | youre probably better of compiling it from source |
| 09:19.11 | *** join/#brlcad clock_ (n=clock@zux221-122-143.adsl.green.ch) | |
| 13:32.24 | siggraph | Urielll: there's a dll developer download as well as the usual binary distribution.. you probably got the dll |
| 13:32.57 | siggraph | that won't last very long, it's going to get moved into its own section so it's not so opaque |
| 13:33.14 | Urielll | Yeah I understood that, thank you :) |
| 15:18.08 | CIA-9 | BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/liboptical/shade.c: quell warning, takes floats not fastf_t's |
| 15:19.26 | CIA-9 | BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/proc-db/picket_fence.c: fixed incorrect parameter usage of mk_lcomb .. takes an array of three char values, not a string of colors |
| 16:58.25 | ``Erik | ls |
| 17:27.43 | *** join/#brlcad IriX64 (n=IriX64@toronto-HSE-ppp4301974.sympatico.ca) | |
| 17:28.00 | IriX64 | regards all. |
| 17:28.34 | IriX64 | rotate-check,drag-check,scale-check :) |
| 17:28.49 | IriX64 | gui working nicely. |
| 17:32.21 | IriX64 | shot10.jpg on ftp.brlcad.org/incoming. :) |
| 17:33.18 | ``Erik | sean, ya there? I gotz an interface question (proxy) |
| 17:44.23 | IriX64 | shot11.jpg |
| 17:48.46 | IriX64 | mged> B |
| 17:48.46 | IriX64 | Error: Usage: B [-A -o -C#/#/# -s] <objects | attribute name/value pairs> |
| 17:49.46 | IriX64 | <PROTECTED> |
| 17:51.05 | ``Erik | 'B' is for blast o.O |
| 17:51.24 | ``Erik | functionally equivelant to running 'Z' then 'e' |
| 17:51.43 | IriX64 | sticky too. |
| 17:52.32 | IriX64 | heh naughty boy ;) |
| 17:53.43 | ``Erik | ??? I'm not the one making things sticky!!! |
| 17:54.06 | IriX64 | but you know of it so you've used this method. |
| 17:58.46 | IriX64 | amp lify that. but it's not amp lified. |
| 18:00.45 | IriX64 | gotta recompile. bbiab=bebackinabit :) |
| 18:03.58 | *** join/#brlcad IriX64 (n=IriX64@toronto-HSE-ppp4301974.sympatico.ca) | |
| 18:04.32 | IriX64 | valiant :) |
| 18:05.14 | IriX64 | gionnini here? |
| 18:06.06 | IriX64 | sob is probably in with the admiral. :) |
| 18:06.43 | IriX64 | look the incinerator is pumping out black smoke. |
| 18:09.06 | IriX64 | back to mged |
| 18:13.48 | IriX64 | is pasting permitted? |
| 18:15.05 | IriX64 | SHOT: cpu = 1.969 sec, elapsed = 63.466 sec |
| 18:15.05 | IriX64 | <PROTECTED> |
| 18:15.05 | IriX64 | <PROTECTED> |
| 18:15.05 | IriX64 | Additional mem=1507328., #malloc=903, #free=710, #realloc=26 (193 retained) |
| 18:15.06 | IriX64 | 349487 solid/ray intersections: 102577 hits + 246910 miss |
| 18:15.06 | IriX64 | pruned 29.4%: 387470 model RPP, 2320981 dups skipped, 326723 solid RPP |
| 18:15.11 | IriX64 | Frame 0: 476100 pixels in 1.97 sec = 241797.87 pixels/sec |
| 18:15.11 | IriX64 | Frame 0: 483790 rays in 1.97 sec = 245703.40 rays/sec (RTFM) |
| 18:15.12 | IriX64 | Frame 0: 483790 rays in 1.97 sec = 245703.40 rays/CPU_sec |
| 18:15.14 | IriX64 | Frame 0: 483790 rays in 63.47 sec = 7622.82 rays/sec (wallclock) |
| 18:15.16 | IriX64 | Raytrace complete. |
| 18:15.22 | IriX64 | mged> took your silence as a yes. |
| 18:16.20 | IriX64 | now take a lead pencil and tap you're teeth with it..... ;) |
| 18:17.24 | IriX64 | time to light a fire close to my mouth , i'll be back shortly. |
| 18:20.43 | *** kick/#brlcad [IriX64!n=sean@pdpc/supporter/silver/brlcad] by siggraph (you've asked three times in the past and been told the same every single time including pleas/complaints from others.. NO, pasting is not allowed (for you, now)) | |
| 18:20.43 | *** join/#brlcad IriX64 (n=IriX64@toronto-HSE-ppp4301974.sympatico.ca) | |
| 18:24.42 | *** topic/#brlcad by siggraph -> http://brlcad.org/ || BRL-CAD is an open source solid modeling software suite || Developers needed! Read the HACKING file for details on getting involved || SIGGRAPH BOF, Tuesday @ 4pm! | |
| 18:26.16 | IriX64 | what size was that boot? :) |
| 18:26.23 | IriX64 | but point taken. |
| 18:27.34 | IriX64 | Do I have this correct then, the overlap tool can either raytrace (to my spec) to find overlaps, or it can take input from a glint file? |
| 18:28.08 | *** join/#brlcad DTRemenak (n=DTRemena@c-24-23-59-104.hsd1.ca.comcast.net) | |
| 18:30.32 | siggraph | IriX64: yes, pretty much |
| 18:30.41 | IriX64 | thankyou. |
| 18:31.15 | siggraph | for overlap detection, there is basically "rtcheck", "g_lint", and "g_qa" |
| 18:31.39 | siggraph | the overlap tool runs one of the first two for you (the third only recently been written) |
| 18:31.49 | IriX64 | having trouble choosing apprpriate ray spacing, using 10cm at the moment. |
| 18:32.15 | IriX64 | on havoc that is. |
| 18:32.35 | IriX64 | azimuth and elevation both 0. |
| 18:33.15 | siggraph | if you use the command window, you can run rtcheck directly, e.g. rtcheck -s 50 |
| 18:33.29 | siggraph | for 50x50 grid of test rays |
| 18:34.05 | IriX64 | ahh i get it. my way comes up overlap 1 of 9 edit object 1 etc... |
| 18:35.02 | IriX64 | can also read overlaps from a g_lint file. |
| 18:36.06 | IriX64 | can i ftp you a screen shot? maybe you can help me out? |
| 18:38.11 | IriX64 | or maybe dcc. |
| 18:38.16 | IriX64 | or mail. |
| 18:43.30 | IriX64 | screen shots ready. |
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| 19:15.40 | catskul | can brl read stp/step models? |
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| 21:12.35 | IriX64 | announcing the t90-cray-unicos BRL-CAD v 10.0.0 :) |
| 22:42.42 | ``Erik | irix.. knock that shit off... we ferakin' WRITE brlcad, we KNOW what version we're on, we KNOW where it works, we even have a fucking cray c2! |
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| 03:02.59 | IriX64 | yah, but you don't know all the players ;) |
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| 14:23.32 | siggraph | hmm |
| 14:23.47 | CIA-9 | BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/libtclcad/tkCanvBezier.c: |
| 14:23.47 | CIA-9 | BRL-CAD: finally rewrite tkCanvBezier to NOT use libtk internal headers (as it was |
| 14:23.47 | CIA-9 | BRL-CAD: written as a proper new libtk Canvas type, but hasn't been pushed through the |
| 14:23.47 | CIA-9 | BRL-CAD: tcl/tk 'TIP' process). this change should make it feasible to compile this code |
| 14:23.47 | CIA-9 | BRL-CAD: without having to have a copy of the Tk sources around .. more testing needed. |
| 14:24.17 | siggraph | justin_: you got a brief mention at one of the courses yesterday from Ingo iirc |
| 14:26.01 | CIA-9 | BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/libtclcad/tclcadTkSetup.c: remove old comment |
| 14:26.59 | CIA-9 | BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/libtclcad/tkImgFmtPIX.c: removing the asize.c bn_common_* file autosizing functions, consolidating them to libfb. so update the function names to fb_ now |
| 14:39.10 | CIA-9 | BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/include/config_win.h: windows apparently doesn't have socklen_t defined, so make it an int so that WIN32 hacks can be removed |
| 14:39.42 | clock_ | bor #ifndef socklen_t #define socklen_t int #endif |
| 14:48.52 | CIA-9 | BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/libbu/parallel.c: run the provided function single-threaded even if bu_parallel() is called on a system that doesn't have PARALLEL support compiled in |
| 15:01.47 | CIA-9 | BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/rt/ext.h: don't need to (nor should we) declare worker() here |
| 15:02.37 | CIA-9 | BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/rt/worker.c: reorder functions so that forward declarations are not needed |
| 15:03.53 | CIA-9 | BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/ (32 files in 9 dirs): |
| 15:03.53 | CIA-9 | BRL-CAD: refactor the three asize.c implementations (libbn, libfb, & canon) into just |
| 15:03.53 | CIA-9 | BRL-CAD: one. libbn had the most comprehensive and updated version, but the logic |
| 15:03.53 | CIA-9 | BRL-CAD: belongs in libfb. so, the bn_common autosizing functions are now consolidated |
| 15:03.53 | CIA-9 | BRL-CAD: to libfb, refactoring accordingly. |
| 15:20.55 | CIA-9 | BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/fbserv/ (Makefile.am fbserv.c fbserv_win.c): |
| 15:20.56 | CIA-9 | BRL-CAD: refactor fbserv.c and fbserv_win.c so that there is only one file that |
| 15:20.56 | CIA-9 | BRL-CAD: supports/contains all of the mods that fbserv_win.c was presuming. this needs |
| 15:20.56 | CIA-9 | BRL-CAD: testing but is more functionally clean, relying on configure-style tests/defines |
| 15:20.56 | CIA-9 | BRL-CAD: instead of WIN32 where easily possible |
| 15:33.23 | CIA-9 | BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/configure.ac: (log message trimmed) |
| 15:33.23 | CIA-9 | BRL-CAD: try enabling the automatic detection/compilation of tcl/tk now that |
| 15:33.23 | CIA-9 | BRL-CAD: tkCanvasBezier is cleaned up to not use internal Tk headers. probably still |
| 15:33.23 | CIA-9 | BRL-CAD: need to work on Tcl autopath issues, but give it a shot. also add a slew of |
| 15:33.23 | CIA-9 | BRL-CAD: checks for WGL so that a new framebuffer and display manager interface may be |
| 15:33.26 | CIA-9 | BRL-CAD: defined on Windows that is separate from the ogl interface. this is important |
| 15:33.28 | CIA-9 | BRL-CAD: for cygwin/mingw systems where it is possible to use both wgl and ogl style |
| 15:34.20 | CIA-9 | BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/include/dm-wgl.h: initial dm-wgl.h header for a new 'wgl' interface, separating it from the X11-based ogl interface and cleaning up the code |
| 15:35.11 | CIA-9 | BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/include/dm-ogl.h: make the 'ogl' interface be X11 OpenGL only. windows is being moved to its own 'wgl' interface |
| 15:38.05 | CIA-9 | BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/ (NEWS include/light.h src/liboptical/sh_light.c): allow unlimited light samples during ray-tracing instead of a fixed compile-time count (was 128) |
| 15:39.18 | CIA-9 | BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/misc/win32-msvc7/fbserv/fbserv.vcproj: fbserv_win.c was consolidated into fbserv.c |
| 15:40.14 | ``Erik | dagnabbit, another hchange to configure.ac |
| 15:40.58 | CIA-9 | BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/misc/win32-msvc7/libdm/libdm.vcproj: |
| 15:40.58 | CIA-9 | BRL-CAD: use the new DM_WGL interface instead of the former DM_OGL interface so that the |
| 15:40.58 | CIA-9 | BRL-CAD: latter may also be compiled at the same time (e.g. cygwin/mingw environments) |
| 15:40.58 | CIA-9 | BRL-CAD: but also to allow the ogl interface to consistently imply just one interface. |
| 15:41.12 | *** join/#brlcad b0ef (n=b0ef@062016141085.customer.alfanett.no) | |
| 15:44.28 | CIA-9 | BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/libdm/dm-ogl.c: update comment to note that the ogl interface is specifically an X11 OpenGL interface (i.e. it's XGL.. might want to rename it to that someday, but oh well). ws |
| 15:45.29 | CIA-9 | BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/libfb/Makefile.am: libfb now compiles asize.c as it was updated and refactored with the better libbn version. compress.c is not really relevant/useful any longer. |
| 15:46.23 | CIA-9 | BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/liboptical/sh_prj.c: unused/unnecessary ../rt/ext.h header |
| 15:47.13 | CIA-9 | BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/rt/ (Makefile.am light.h): the 'local' light.h header was redundant with include/light.h so remove it |
| 15:50.10 | CIA-9 | BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/libsysv/ (9 files): remove the obsolete regular expression implementation, there is a src/other/libregex that is more up-to-date. |
| 15:51.46 | CIA-9 | BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/libfb/compress.c: remove the obsolete compress.c file .. can be restored from revision history should someone really ever need to revisit compression on such old hardware |
| 15:52.11 | CIA-9 | BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/include/Makefile.am: install the new dm-wgl.h header |
| 15:52.50 | CIA-9 | BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/misc/win32-msvc7/ (libtclcad/libtclcad.vcproj mged/mged.vcproj): use the DM_WGL interface instead of DM_OGL |
| 15:53.05 | CIA-9 | BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/adrt/libcommon/Makefile.am: removed comment |
| 15:53.52 | CIA-9 | BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/libbn/Makefile.am: remove asize.c file -- was refactored into src/libfb/asize.c |
| 15:54.57 | CIA-9 | BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/libdm/Makefile.am: add dm-wgl.c to the compilation list based on the WITH_WGL automake symbol being defined by configure -- this allows the wgl interface to be simultaneously compiled alongside the ogl interface |
| 15:55.52 | CIA-9 | BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/rttherm/viewtherm.c: use the main light.h header, not the (now gone) private src/rt/light.h header |
| 15:59.18 | CIA-9 | BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/libdm/dm-wgl.c: |
| 15:59.18 | CIA-9 | BRL-CAD: add an initial implementation of a WindowsGL 'wgl' libdm interface using the |
| 15:59.18 | CIA-9 | BRL-CAD: former dm-ogl_win32.c code as a basis. remove the XGL sections and add |
| 15:59.18 | CIA-9 | BRL-CAD: boilerplate checks that makes sure this interface can be compiled alongside the |
| 15:59.18 | CIA-9 | BRL-CAD: 'ogl' interface. expects DM_OGL to be defined in order to get functionality. |
| 16:01.31 | CIA-9 | BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/libfb/if_wgl.c: |
| 16:01.32 | CIA-9 | BRL-CAD: initial stub of a libfb IF_WGL 'wgl' interface to replace usage of 'ogl' on |
| 16:01.32 | CIA-9 | BRL-CAD: Windows. this is done to support the libdm design intent of interfaces for each |
| 16:01.32 | CIA-9 | BRL-CAD: style of display manager, instead of piggy-backing on top of 'ogl' and |
| 16:01.32 | CIA-9 | BRL-CAD: complicating the code with preprocessor WIN32 checks everywhere. haven't |
| 16:01.32 | CIA-9 | BRL-CAD: updated the names/code yet.. just a stub file. |
| 16:02.13 | CIA-9 | BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/libfb/Makefile.am: add the new if_wgl.c file, not yet compiled |
| 16:03.39 | CIA-9 | BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/ (20 files in 20 dirs): update the usage of LIBRT from configure to be RT instead so that it is consistent with the other BU, BN, WDB etc library defines, using the LIB prefix mostly on third party or external libraries instead. |
| 16:09.01 | CIA-9 | BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/libfb/Makefile.am: check for the WITH_WGL symbol from configure to add the WGL cflags |
| 16:09.37 | CIA-9 | BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/configure.ac: oops, typo.. close the macro |
| 16:11.47 | CIA-9 | BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/configure.ac: bah, another.. wgl_link_works, not gl_link_works |
| 16:21.24 | CIA-9 | BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/libfb/if_wgl.c: update names, s/ogl/wgl/ |
| 16:22.01 | CIA-9 | BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/libfb/Makefile.am: compile if_wgl.c now that it'll check for IF_WGL being defined |
| 16:25.26 | ValarQ | siggraph: changed nick? |
| 16:36.34 | siggraph | ValarQ: hmm? |
| 16:37.58 | ValarQ | or where is that @brlcad fellow? |
| 16:38.08 | siggraph | ah |
| 16:38.15 | siggraph | yes, same fellow |
| 16:38.39 | ValarQ | ok :) |
| 16:38.41 | siggraph | i'm at the annual ACM Siggraph conference this week |
| 16:40.55 | CIA-9 | BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/conv/jack/Makefile.am: g-jack needs his libraries too |
| 16:40.57 | siggraph | for those that have known me on irc for a long time, it's their queue that I'm in and out of rooms, not on-line as much .. busy etc ;) |
| 16:43.14 | CIA-9 | BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/conv/patch/Makefile.am: use RT now instead of LIBRT |
| 17:23.50 | *** join/#brlcad IriX64 (n=IriX64@toronto-HSE-ppp4301974.sympatico.ca) | |
| 17:24.49 | IriX64 | ``Erik: apologies for last night, I keep forgetting announcements here are taken seriously, should have put a smiley face on that. I'll watch it from now on. |
| 17:32.21 | IriX64 | was just trying to tell you my code generator is coming along nicely ``Erik. |
| 17:33.49 | IriX64 | don't use --host, set the build switch and if a cross compiler is detected it will be used, you know? |
| 17:35.13 | IriX64 | you want my config.log? |
| 17:36.55 | IriX64 | its in config.sub you know, the t90-cray-unicos. |
| 17:38.19 | IriX64 | i've tackled maybe 20% of whats in config.sub. |
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| 17:41.11 | IriX64 | mmm the nmi pin? |
| 17:41.23 | *** join/#brlcad z80pin6 (i=clock@84-72-92-211.dclient.hispeed.ch) | |
| 17:41.47 | IriX64 | guess not :) |
| 17:42.34 | *** join/#brlcad z80pin6 (i=clock@84-72-92-211.dclient.hispeed.ch) | |
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| 17:53.04 | IriX64 | hahah ./jove ==>segmentation fault core dumped |
| 17:53.27 | IriX64 | now how do i get runtime testing? :) |
| 17:53.32 | ValarQ | emerge emacs # :P |
| 17:53.40 | IriX64 | heh yah. |
| 17:54.00 | IriX64 | got a t90 ValarQ? |
| 17:54.24 | ValarQ | no |
| 17:54.38 | IriX64 | heh me either ill just inspect the code. |
| 17:54.44 | ValarQ | i guess you mean one of these: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/T-90 |
| 17:55.13 | ValarQ | i would love to get my hands on one :) |
| 17:55.47 | ValarQ | "125 mm smoothbore gun with ATGM capability" :D |
| 17:56.02 | IriX64 | hahhahah my cross compiler doesn't support *That t90. :) |
| 17:56.08 | ValarQ | aw :( |
| 17:56.17 | IriX64 | nice ride? |
| 17:56.58 | IriX64 | wouldn't rifling it make it go more far more accuratly? |
| 17:57.03 | ValarQ | i don't think so, they usually isn't very comfortable |
| 17:58.26 | ValarQ | we only had 75mm canons where i used to work... |
| 17:59.19 | IriX64 | 75mm , question stands would rifling the barrel help? |
| 17:59.32 | ValarQ | don't know actually |
| 18:00.00 | IriX64 | help on hunting weapons, even arrows these days twist in flight. |
| 18:00.05 | IriX64 | helps too. |
| 18:00.17 | ValarQ | yeah, but here the forces is much bigger |
| 18:00.33 | IriX64 | physics cares little about scale. |
| 18:00.42 | siggraph | IriX64: do you have a backtrace? |
| 18:00.55 | IriX64 | what the core dump? |
| 18:01.01 | ValarQ | IriX64: true, but not necessary the materials |
| 18:01.05 | siggraph | no, the backgrace |
| 18:01.16 | ValarQ | s/necessary/necessarily/ |
| 18:01.17 | siggraph | s/gr/tr/ |
| 18:01.19 | IriX64 | didnt look just tried to run it. |
| 18:01.27 | IriX64 | whats it called? |
| 18:01.31 | siggraph | can you run it in a debugger? |
| 18:01.34 | IriX64 | just a sec ill find it. |
| 18:01.49 | IriX64 | no man its t90 architecture. |
| 18:01.56 | siggraph | and more importantly, is this the latest cvs or some source release? |
| 18:02.13 | IriX64 | something ive worked on. |
| 18:02.35 | IriX64 | from the source tarball 7.6.0 and up to 7.8.2 from sourceforge. |
| 18:03.04 | IriX64 | cant be a backtrace think why. |
| 18:03.30 | ValarQ | IriX64: "The cannon, in the form of the tank gun, has made the transition from smoothbore to rifled, and is moving back to smoothbore." |
| 18:03.35 | ValarQ | IriX64: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Smoothbore |
| 18:03.43 | IriX64 | dont have a t90 debugger man, sorry :) |
| 18:04.07 | IriX64 | really valarq? |
| 18:04.17 | IriX64 | ill look that up right now. |
| 18:07.39 | ValarQ | IriX64: yeah, it seems as they use longer projectiles there is no need for rifled cannons |
| 18:08.06 | IriX64 | they cheat they use fins :) |
| 18:09.11 | IriX64 | like arrows, tell them to use the fins to impart a stability spin and minimize tumbling. |
| 18:10.20 | IriX64 | btw that v10.0.0 is simply what I call mine :) |
| 18:13.53 | IriX64 | this'll be a little while yet, I'm taking a smoke break, be back in a bit. |
| 18:41.45 | IriX64 | ftp.brlcad.org, Brl-Cad-10.0.0.bz2 if you're curious. |
| 18:41.55 | IriX64 | incoming of course. |
| 18:45.20 | IriX64 | I... touch things, you know, to relax, are any of you like that? |
| 18:54.20 | IriX64 | its there. :) |
| 19:19.06 | CIA-9 | BRL-CAD: 03erikgreenwald * 10brlcad/src/librt/g_metaball.c: |
| 19:19.06 | CIA-9 | BRL-CAD: Drastically improved bounding sphere computation (better center and fit). |
| 19:19.07 | CIA-9 | BRL-CAD: Fix for 'garbage' normals resulting in noisy images in some situations. |
| 19:19.07 | CIA-9 | BRL-CAD: Obey the 'one-hit' flag in the shot routine. |
| 19:21.09 | ``Erik | irix64: do you have the 'file' program? |
| 19:35.38 | *** join/#brlcad TechNeck (i=techneck@basic-lip.shekel.dreamhost.com) | |
| 19:36.12 | TechNeck | hi guys |
| 19:36.39 | TechNeck | just checking out brlcad for the first time |
| 19:36.43 | TechNeck | pretty useful? |
| 19:44.50 | ``Erik | some people seem to think so, it's been in use for about 25 yrs now... |
| 19:50.12 | siggraph | TechNeck: I like it |
| 19:50.14 | siggraph | :) |
| 19:52.35 | TechNeck | I use freebsd and some different flavors of linux at home |
| 19:52.47 | ``Erik | /usr/ports/cad/brlcad |
| 19:52.48 | TechNeck | work is all windows based |
| 19:53.08 | TechNeck | I'm at work and grabbed the sourceforge windows version |
| 19:53.16 | TechNeck | it's a dll :/ |
| 19:53.58 | TechNeck | Is brlcad just the library? |
| 19:54.01 | ``Erik | no |
| 19:54.06 | ``Erik | I think you need the _devel file? |
| 19:54.22 | ``Erik | or |
| 19:54.23 | ``Erik | no |
| 19:54.27 | ``Erik | you probably need the 7.8.0 one |
| 19:54.32 | TechNeck | is it a working application in itself? or do I have to make one with it? |
| 19:54.39 | ``Erik | it looks a lot meatier |
| 19:54.48 | ``Erik | it's a collection of 400 and something executables |
| 19:54.52 | TechNeck | ok |
| 19:54.56 | ``Erik | 'mged' being the one most people want to use first |
| 19:55.35 | TechNeck | It doesn't replace AutoCAD right out of the box, though, does it? |
| 19:55.51 | ``Erik | it's goal is a little different |
| 19:56.34 | ``Erik | autocad is very much a draft generation system, not a 3d engineering/analysis tool? |
| 19:56.34 | TechNeck | I'm saying, though, we could develop and AutoCAD replacement with this, yea? |
| 19:56.40 | TechNeck | I see it has conversion tools |
| 19:57.07 | ``Erik | well, yeah, it copes with dxf, the draft features are just a bit weaker, I guess, and the UI is a bit different |
| 19:57.44 | ``Erik | <-- not a modeller, is a coder, so not very familiar iwth autocad or the other halfdozen cad type activitites |
| 20:09.35 | ``Erik | sweet |
| 20:11.06 | archivist | I never liked Orcad, I used PCAD |
| 20:14.31 | archivist | My old DOS version of PCAD (cant afford to upgrade) still has stuff that makes me continue using it |
| 20:15.17 | CIA-9 | BRL-CAD: 03erikgreenwald * 10brlcad/src/conv/off/Makefile.am: LIBRT moved to RT |
| 20:18.25 | CIA-9 | BRL-CAD: 03erikgreenwald * 10brlcad/src/remrt/Makefile.am: rtsrv needs libfb |
| 20:22.24 | CIA-9 | BRL-CAD: 03erikgreenwald * 10brlcad/src/liboptical/Makefile.am: sh_billboard.c requires libfb for fb_common_name_size, so add it to the deplibs |
| 20:26.25 | CIA-9 | BRL-CAD: 03erikgreenwald * 10brlcad/src/remrt/Makefile.am: since liboptical now deplibs libfb, we can remove libfb from the explicit ldadd |
| 20:51.42 | CIA-9 | BRL-CAD: 03erikgreenwald * 10brlcad/src/librt/g_metaball.c: |
| 20:51.42 | CIA-9 | BRL-CAD: Shoot all the way through if ap->a_onehit is not true (opposed to through the first in/out pair). |
| 20:51.43 | CIA-9 | BRL-CAD: Apply the 'stepping' optimization to walking after the first hit. |
| 20:51.43 | CIA-9 | BRL-CAD: Minor cleanup for -Wall -Werror -ansi -pedantic. |
| 20:55.23 | ``Erik | lots and lots of beer |
| 20:55.24 | ``Erik | :D |
| 21:09.47 | TechNeck | hmm |
| 21:09.55 | TechNeck | looks cool |
| 21:10.07 | TechNeck | crashes when I go to make an extrusion though |
| 21:21.58 | *** join/#brlcad DTRemenak|RDP (n=DTRemena@c-24-23-59-104.hsd1.ca.comcast.net) | |
| 21:28.31 | *** join/#brlcad matt_ezeki_230 (n=matt@host-84-222-178-156.cust-adsl.tiscali.it) | |
| 21:28.55 | matt_ezeki_230 | hi guys... |
| 21:37.46 | matt_ezeki_230 | i've a problem with clone function. Let me provide an example: |
| 21:38.07 | matt_ezeki_230 | 1) in a.s rcc 0 0 -2 0 0 4 1 |
| 21:38.22 | matt_ezeki_230 | 2) in b.s rcc 0 -2 0 0 4 0 1 |
| 21:38.43 | matt_ezeki_230 | 3) r ab.r u a.s u b.s |
| 21:39.12 | matt_ezeki_230 | 4) clone ab.r |
| 21:40.00 | Twingy | that's good I guess |
| 21:41.35 | matt_ezeki_230 | db_read(test.g) ERROR offset=424, count=10240, dbi_eof=504 |
| 21:42.20 | matt_ezeki_230 | ERROR: clone internal error, cannot find ab.r for editing |
| 21:42.46 | matt_ezeki_230 | Database read error, aborting |
| 21:43.03 | matt_ezeki_230 | . |
| 21:43.03 | matt_ezeki_230 | . |
| 21:43.09 | matt_ezeki_230 | any ideas? |
| 21:46.11 | Twingy | try converting it |
| 21:46.29 | Twingy | there's a utility to bring it up to the "latest" ver |
| 21:47.52 | matt_ezeki_230 | should I convert command clone? |
| 21:48.10 | Twingy | "command clone" ? |
| 21:49.40 | matt_ezeki_230 | you said "try converting it"... what is "it"? |
| 21:51.01 | Twingy | your file |
| 21:54.59 | matt_ezeki_230 | sorry, I'm a newbie in brlcad but... which conversion should I do to my file (from *.g to...)? which utility should I use to do this and why should a *.g file be a problem? |
| 21:55.38 | Twingy | check the converters directory |
| 22:07.09 | matt_ezeki_230 | which is the converters directory? /usr/brlcad/.....? |
| 22:11.56 | Twingy | then get installed in bin |
| 22:12.02 | Twingy | the src/conv has the list |
| 22:12.14 | Twingy | I'll be back later, I got some stuff going on here |
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| 09:49.53 | *** join/#brlcad matt_ezeki_230 (n=matt@host-84-223-138-136.cust-adsl.tiscali.it) | |
| 10:23.36 | matt_ezeki_230 | hi... I'm here again because I keep on having problems with "clone <obj>" command |
| 10:23.45 | matt_ezeki_230 | let me provide a simple mged session which expose the issue: |
| 10:23.53 | matt_ezeki_230 | $ mged test.g |
| 10:23.55 | *** join/#brlcad clock_ (n=clock@zux221-122-143.adsl.green.ch) | |
| 10:24.09 | matt_ezeki_230 | mged> in a.s rcc 0 0 -2 0 0 4 1 |
| 10:24.15 | matt_ezeki_230 | mged> in b.s rcc 0 -2 0 0 4 0 1 |
| 10:24.46 | matt_ezeki_230 | mged> r rab.r u a.s u b.s |
| 10:24.53 | matt_ezeki_230 | mged> clone -n 1 rab.r |
| 10:25.01 | matt_ezeki_230 | db_read(test.g) ERROR offset=424, count=10240, dbi_oef=504 |
| 10:25.11 | matt_ezeki_230 | ERROR: clone internal error, cannot find rab.r for editing |
| 10:25.17 | matt_ezeki_230 | Database read error, aborting |
| 10:25.30 | matt_ezeki_230 | ...but if I list the objects in database... |
| 10:25.40 | matt_ezeki_230 | mged> ls -l |
| 10:25.45 | matt_ezeki_230 | a.s tgc12160 |
| 10:25.50 | matt_ezeki_230 | b.s tgc12160 |
| 10:25.54 | matt_ezeki_230 | rab.r region1 31 80 |
| 10:26.07 | matt_ezeki_230 | ...and... |
| 10:26.17 | matt_ezeki_230 | mged> l rab.r |
| 10:26.22 | matt_ezeki_230 | rab.r: REGION id=1000 (air=0, los=100, GIFTmater=1) -- |
| 10:26.27 | matt_ezeki_230 | u a.s |
| 10:26.32 | matt_ezeki_230 | u b.s |
| 10:26.44 | matt_ezeki_230 | ...I hope someone could help me to solve this issue... |
| 12:16.44 | *** join/#brlcad clock_ (n=clock@zux221-122-143.adsl.green.ch) | |
| 13:25.18 | siggraph | matt_ezeki_230: clone does not yet work on db 5 databases.. I should have disabeled it, but unintentionally left it enabled for the past release |
| 13:27.17 | siggraph | TechNeck: it certainly doesn't replace autocad out of the box, but we also certainly could fill in the missing pieces with development |
| 13:27.29 | siggraph | we're mostly at a lack of dev hands, not ideas or plans ;) |
| 13:28.15 | clock_ | siggraph: like everybody |
| 13:28.38 | siggraph | to some extents |
| 13:28.59 | siggraph | some projects I've worked on are actually at a sweet spot of developer activity |
| 13:29.35 | siggraph | 5 or 6 active devs is pretty ideal if they are globally distributed, a few more if you can all get together more consistently |
| 13:30.23 | siggraph | (and by active, I mean very active.. fully invested in development) |
| 13:31.15 | siggraph | matt_ezeki_230: basically, you'll need to use the Pattern tool (on the Tools menu) instead of the clone command for now |
| 13:32.20 | siggraph | TechNeck: you have an extrusion that is crashing? I'd be interested in knowing what steps you took that caused it.. |
| 13:40.33 | matt_ezeki_230 | siggraph: ok! It works! many thanks :-) |
| 13:41.57 | ``Erik | damn shootray is one bigassed function |
| 13:43.50 | clock_ | ``Erik: I say ass so wide one could project 20 widescreen movies on it |
| 13:49.06 | ``Erik | iiiiiinteresting |
| 13:49.35 | clock_ | ``Erik: Especially in connection with women. My sexual subsystem is not particularly tuned to women and their wide asses ;-) |
| 13:54.02 | archivist | more that a handfull and the rest goes to waste |
| 13:54.13 | archivist | that=than |
| 13:55.37 | CIA-9 | BRL-CAD: 03johnranderson * 10brlcad/src/gtools/g_transfer.c: Corrected the compile instructions |
| 13:58.42 | matt_ezeki_230 | siggraph: only a last question... I choose tab named "rectangular", depth of duplication = primitives, source string = rab, replacement string = k1, objects = rab.r and I obtained a cloned region k1.r builded with primitives a.s_1 and b.s_1. Is there a way to obtain k1.r builded with primitives k1_a.s (instead of a.s_1) and k1_b.s (instead of b.s_1) **in a straight manner** (e.i without to use command "mvall" to rename them |
| 13:58.42 | matt_ezeki_230 | <PROTECTED> |
| 15:01.57 | siggraph | hmmm |
| 16:54.17 | *** join/#brlcad IriX64 (n=IriX64@toronto-HSE-ppp4308110.sympatico.ca) | |
| 17:25.05 | IriX64 | who is peer, and why is he always resetting my connection. :) |
| 17:34.24 | IriX64 | you people must be very very busy, I would hate to have your jobs. :) |
| 17:58.38 | siggraph | IriX64: always very very busy, but I actually rather enjoy my job :) |
| 17:59.26 | siggraph | though enjoying one's job is almost entirely just a state of mind, personal tolerance, and values |
| 18:01.00 | IriX64 | thought it was a matter of payola ;) |
| 18:01.44 | IriX64 | must admit enough payola contributes greatly to the enjoment of one job. :) |
| 18:01.56 | IriX64 | enjoyment too. |
| 18:03.28 | siggraph | nah |
| 18:03.40 | IriX64 | heh ok. |
| 18:03.52 | siggraph | i'd work for a heck of a lot less if someone bought me my toys and kept me fed |
| 18:04.20 | IriX64 | agreed feel the same way. |
| 18:04.28 | siggraph | that just gets back to tolerance and values.. some value the pay and not the work |
| 18:04.50 | IriX64 | true way too much importance is attached to dollars. |
| 18:06.20 | ``Erik | money is a means, not an end... |
| 18:06.36 | IriX64 | if it was an end i could quit work. |
| 18:06.46 | *** join/#brlcad IriX64_ (n=IriX64@toronto-HSE-ppp4308110.sympatico.ca) | |
| 18:06.56 | archivist | not enough money == not enough toys (my current situation) |
| 18:07.10 | ``Erik | buy cheaper toys? |
| 18:07.18 | ``Erik | you can do some gnarly stuff with 74xx ttl's |
| 18:07.59 | IriX64 | quick i just threw you a 7404 what did you do with it? :) |
| 18:08.12 | ``Erik | stick it up my nose |
| 18:08.18 | archivist | I collect free toys others throw away |
| 18:08.31 | IriX64 | erik there 3 othe pices. |
| 18:08.38 | ``Erik | without some kinda board, wiring, solder, i/o devices, etc... that's about what it's good forr |
| 18:08.57 | IriX64 | name a toy. |
| 18:09.27 | IriX64 | trs80? |
| 18:09.32 | archivist | HP 1631D logic analyser |
| 18:09.43 | IriX64 | thats hp 16540 |
| 18:10.10 | IriX64 | analyzer :) |
| 18:10.28 | IriX64 | ermf anal izer :) |
| 18:11.59 | ``Erik | or mebbe an oh40 for the onboard fpu |
| 18:12.22 | IriX64 | man that an sx chip. |
| 18:12.58 | IriX64 | wonder if i can support the amdahl? |
| 18:14.25 | IriX64 | those guys are tight lipped about their instuction set (unless you're a customer) |
| 18:14.33 | ``Erik | erm... |
| 18:14.44 | ``Erik | the motorola 68030 is a very old, open, and widely known chip... |
| 18:14.58 | ``Erik | not TOO long ago, they'd send you free opcode and schematic books |
| 18:15.00 | IriX64 | thought that was the m68000 |
| 18:15.16 | ``Erik | the whole 68k line |
| 18:15.32 | IriX64 | mmm pdp11 on a chip that one i know. |
| 18:15.38 | ``Erik | 030 added an onboard mmu, 040 added an onboard fpu... |
| 18:16.41 | archivist | I have a few motorolas in my cpu collection some on the original boards |
| 18:17.02 | IriX64 | 12737 301 777566 ===> mov the number following this instruction to the address following that number, nowq whats it doing? |
| 18:17.47 | IriX64 | prints a capital a on the console typer :) |
| 18:19.58 | IriX64 | must go buy a case of sandwiches, be back in a bit. |
| 18:49.30 | CIA-9 | BRL-CAD: 03erikgreenwald * 10brlcad/include/machine.h: adding {free,open,net}bsd to the ugly hackery |
| 19:53.55 | ``Erik | siggraph: ap->a_onehit intends for only the very first 'in' (assuming you start 'out') hit to be used? |
| 20:01.43 | *** join/#brlcad bjorkBSD (n=bjork@ip70-178-169-173.ks.ks.cox.net) | |
| 20:05.49 | siggraph | ``Erik: pretty much |
| 20:06.11 | ``Erik | erm... "pretty much"? |
| 20:06.28 | siggraph | it computes the first hitpoint along a ray |
| 20:07.12 | ``Erik | a lot of primitives go ahead and do the first and second hitpoints... in and out... :/ |
| 20:07.16 | siggraph | and instead of progressing the ray more, it halts |
| 20:08.32 | ``Erik | of course, a lot of primitives get that for free :) |
| 20:09.15 | siggraph | yes, some do.. and they probably shouldn't |
| 20:09.20 | CIA-9 | BRL-CAD: 03erikgreenwald * 10brlcad/src/librt/bool.c: don't complain about an inside-out primitive when 'out' is unset and a_onehit is set |
| 20:09.24 | siggraph | but is generally already computed information |
| 20:12.25 | siggraph | hmm.. i'm not sure that is valid |
| 20:12.54 | ``Erik | why not? |
| 20:14.03 | siggraph | a_onehit serves multiple purposes |
| 20:14.28 | siggraph | if a_onehit == 1, then it should be only the first in point if I read the comments correctly |
| 20:14.42 | siggraph | value of 2 would be the first entry/exit pair |
| 20:14.49 | ``Erik | meh, the manpage is off? |
| 20:15.12 | siggraph | which manpage? |
| 20:15.27 | ``Erik | librt |
| 20:15.39 | siggraph | read src/librt/bool.c's comment |
| 20:15.47 | ``Erik | makes it sound like a boolean, not a count |
| 20:16.11 | siggraph | for 'rt', it's used as a boolean |
| 20:19.40 | ``Erik | 'k, taken care of |
| 20:24.00 | siggraph | should update NEWS when you make changes like machine.h .. that fixes crashing problems if I'm not mistaken |
| 20:24.09 | siggraph | no? |
| 20:24.32 | ``Erik | nope |
| 20:24.50 | ``Erik | the default stuff worked on bsd, it just didn't go parallel by default |
| 20:25.38 | siggraph | not even the 64bit addage? |
| 20:26.59 | ``Erik | ooh |
| 20:27.01 | ``Erik | shit |
| 20:27.56 | ``Erik | gnarly |
| 20:28.01 | CIA-9 | BRL-CAD: 03erikgreenwald * 10brlcad/NEWS: added note about the machine.h changes |
| 20:28.58 | siggraph | heh, bzzt |
| 20:29.13 | siggraph | user-visible changes dude |
| 20:29.59 | siggraph | it's also a stack |
| 20:30.10 | siggraph | and one-line per entry |
| 20:30.10 | ``Erik | meh |
| 20:30.12 | siggraph | sheesh |
| 20:30.28 | ``Erik | heh, is it one line, or 80? |
| 20:31.26 | CIA-9 | BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/NEWS: improved FreeBSD 64bit support, fix AMD64 crash |
| 20:31.40 | ``Erik | gheh |
| 20:31.43 | ``Erik | bastage |
| 20:32.01 | siggraph | one line per user-visible change, less than 70 chars per line .. just like the file says.. |
| 20:32.08 | ``Erik | <-- fixes his own mistakes o.O |
| 20:32.49 | ``Erik | heh, and allowing parallel tracing isn't worthy? :) |
| 20:33.19 | ``Erik | <-- did it to set PARALLEL, fixing that bool bug on amd64 was a pleasant surprise... |
| 20:33.41 | siggraph | which bool bug on amd64? |
| 20:33.45 | siggraph | the havoc crash? |
| 20:33.53 | ``Erik | yes, that I'm about to close in the tracker |
| 20:34.21 | siggraph | heh, forgot all about checking the BITV length |
| 20:34.56 | siggraph | that stupid int needs to be provided by configure |
| 20:35.11 | ``Erik | several things do, machine.h should go away |
| 20:35.18 | ``Erik | imho. |
| 20:42.39 | siggraph | it should |
| 20:42.54 | siggraph | that's just a rather big undertaking to fully realize |
| 20:43.10 | siggraph | i've started on some of the pieces here, started some of it on the train |
| 20:44.06 | siggraph | each change impacts several hundred files often in non-scriptable ways |
| 20:44.54 | ``Erik | *nod* |
| 20:45.52 | siggraph | finally got tkCanvBezier separated from libtk |
| 20:47.18 | siggraph | what's amazing is that non-debug worked without setting the correct BITV length |
| 20:47.24 | siggraph | it should have crashed |
| 20:48.43 | siggraph | implies something wierd like non-debug is using 32 bit ints under the hood or something similar |
| 20:48.48 | ``Erik | aight, if a_onehit means 'number of hits to compute, or all if 0', what's a negative value mean? |
| 20:49.09 | siggraph | the comment talks about < 0 |
| 20:49.16 | siggraph | or at least shoot.c does iirc |
| 20:49.31 | siggraph | basically indicates whether to count air |
| 20:49.57 | ``Erik | *read* |
| 20:54.21 | CIA-9 | BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/HACKING: minor comment about keeping docs up to date, communicating changes |
| 20:59.34 | ``Erik | <-- goes home O.o |
| 20:59.53 | CIA-9 | BRL-CAD: 03erikgreenwald * 10brlcad/src/librt/g_metaball.c: Implemented rt_metaball_class. Fixed a_onehit handling in rt_metaball_shot. |
| 21:00.47 | CIA-9 | BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/NEWS: forgot to mention that this fixes sf bug #1469502: FreeBSD6/amd64 rt segfault when optimization enabled |
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| 21:50.34 | Open2000 | hello, i want to try brl-cad for windows, where i should start? |
| 22:03.19 | bjorkBSD | Ухожу я от вас |
| 22:03.23 | bjorkBSD | he put a hex on you folks ^ |
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| 00:43.11 | IriX64 | greet. |
| 00:44.13 | IriX64 | BrlCad on leave? |
| 00:55.50 | IriX64 | say would any of you be able to runtime test a sparc-sun-sunos irssi? |
| 01:18.09 | IriX64 | checking size of off_t... configure: error: cannot run test program while cross |
| 01:18.11 | IriX64 | compiling |
| 01:18.22 | IriX64 | why don they just make an assumption? |
| 01:22.10 | IriX64 | i set it to 4 (if you have bigger it should still work) |
| 01:25.11 | IriX64 | int. |
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| 17:29.06 | CIA-9 | BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/sh/lines.sh: compute how many lines of the source code are actually blank and don't include those numbers in the totals for a slightly better/invariant approximation |
| 17:30.23 | CIA-9 | BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/bwish/tcl.c: init array to zero |
| 17:31.50 | CIA-9 | BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/libfb/if_X24.c: avoid crash -- if the interface is null, just return |
| 17:32.54 | CIA-9 | BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/libfb/libfb.dsp: use IF_WGL now instead of IF_OGL, as well as if_wgl.c instead of if_ogl_win32.c |
| 17:34.50 | CIA-9 | BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/libfb/tcl.c: add support for the new 'wgl' WindowsGL interface |
| 17:35.22 | CIA-9 | BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/mged/Makefile.am: add support for the new 'wgl' WindowsGL interface |
| 18:06.36 | CIA-9 | BRL-CAD: 03erikgreenwald * 10brlcad/src/librt/g_metaball.c: |
| 18:06.36 | CIA-9 | BRL-CAD: Major fixes to bounding sphere generation. |
| 18:06.36 | CIA-9 | BRL-CAD: Break bigger functions down a bit for reuse and easier reading. |
| 18:06.36 | CIA-9 | BRL-CAD: Draw the bounding sphere in rt_metaball_plot (may be backed out later). |
| 18:08.18 | *** join/#brlcad ``Erik (i=erik@c-69-250-155-85.hsd1.md.comcast.net) | |
| 18:14.37 | ``Erik | hrm |
| 18:18.12 | ``Erik | sean, ya handy? |
| 18:18.43 | ``Erik | (and is what's-his-name there with you?) |
| 19:32.07 | b0ef | is it a goal for BRL-CAD to support a full NURBS manipulation environment with the new interface? |
| 19:57.55 | *** join/#brlcad IriX64 (n=IriX64@toronto-HSE-ppp4304030.sympatico.ca) | |
| 20:02.14 | IriX64 | brlcad qualifies as a ton of source code :) |
| 20:03.06 | b0ef | does the brl-cad NURBS tools, which are not visible in the editor, support a full range of operations on NURBS? |
| 20:04.04 | IriX64 | define nurbs, i'm a neophyte. |
| 20:04.50 | b0ef | IriX64: http://wikipedia.org/wiki/Nurbs |
| 20:05.03 | IriX64 | ty. |
| 20:06.45 | IriX64 | fer cris sake a wave modeler? |
| 20:07.36 | IriX64 | i'll try it after i get it built again :) |
| 20:09.10 | b0ef | IriX64: the NURBS tools are not accessible with the current editor |
| 20:10.47 | IriX64 | thankyou but you should still be able to run them from mged |
| 20:11.19 | IriX64 | or is that the current editor you're talking about meaning the geometry editor? |
| 20:12.50 | b0ef | yes, you can't manipulate NURBS |
| 20:13.05 | b0ef | you can only import NURBS, but not do anything with them |
| 20:13.07 | IriX64 | but you said nurbs *tools. |
| 20:13.40 | b0ef | yes, there are apparently some NURBS tools in the code, but the are not accessible from anywhere |
| 20:13.59 | IriX64 | try ./tool :) |
| 20:14.05 | b0ef | s/the are/they are/ |
| 20:14.26 | IriX64 | ./tool.exe |
| 20:19.44 | ``Erik | nurb support was a thing that was being worked on and the person like retired or something, so work stopped... thten it was reassigned to someone a few months back, and he worked on it, and then he got assigned to a different project... |
| 20:19.49 | ``Erik | irix, you're a tool.exe. |
| 20:20.34 | IriX64 | try it. (I am gemoetry) :) |
| 20:20.36 | ``Erik | so, nurbs are an incomplete primitive... :) |
| 20:21.31 | b0ef | ``Erik: yes, but is it the goal of BRL-CAD to support extensive NURBS manipulation?;) |
| 20:21.59 | ``Erik | it was the intent a couple times in history... I believe it's a perpetual intent, but when the boss says "quit that, work on this instead"... *shrug* :) |
| 20:22.10 | ``Erik | feel free to code up the rest of the nurbs stuff if you want it that bad :D |
| 20:22.24 | ``Erik | the most recent efforts were moved into a branch in april |
| 20:22.39 | IriX64 | in other words take it up with his boss. |
| 20:22.44 | IriX64 | heh sorry. |
| 20:23.43 | IriX64 | ``Erik? Archer works on my windows box, but the *nix implementation, incomplete? |
| 20:23.47 | b0ef | ``Erik: ;), it's a little out of my scope for the moment, but I just wanted to clarify if it was the goal and it is; thanks |
| 20:24.01 | ``Erik | archer was written for widnows, the idea to port it to *nix is being discussed... |
| 20:24.25 | ``Erik | b0ef: http://brlcad.cvs.sourceforge.net/brlcad/brlcad/librt/g_nurb.c?hideattic=0&view=log |
| 20:24.32 | ``Erik | before the dir reorg :) |
| 20:25.44 | IriX64 | you're a good woman ``Erik. :) |
| 20:27.50 | IriX64 | wonder if he still has lucy van pelt, he founded an industry with that floppy door latch thing. |
| 20:32.00 | IriX64 | time for a breath of air bbiab. |
| 20:54.14 | IriX64 | ``Erik? if i wanted to share some of my stuff, must i go through cvs? |
| 20:57.11 | IriX64 | is ftp.brlcad.org an official brl-cad server? |
| 21:05.23 | ``Erik | uhhhh, share what stuff? |
| 21:06.50 | IriX64 | code both binaries & sorce :) |
| 21:10.30 | siggraph | b0ef: full range of operations except trimmings .. that was very recently being worked on but is incomplete afaik |
| 21:12.38 | siggraph | b0ef: i would say the intent is to eventually add full nurbs manipulation support in the modeling environment, as well as possibly use the nurbs in-memory representation as a means to support b-rep dual representations of implicits to allow for more flexible editing operations as needed |
| 21:13.10 | siggraph | just need someone that's interested enough to make it their own, get knee deep in code, and flesh it out |
| 21:15.45 | siggraph | IriX64: archer is inherintly cross-platform.. but it's currently expecting to be able to load a plugin and that code hasn't been hashed out really |
| 21:16.25 | ``Erik | sean |
| 21:16.31 | siggraph | IriX64: if you have source changes, there are instructions in the HACKING file on making a universal diff and where it can be posted (basically to the sf.net patches tracker) |
| 21:16.42 | ``Erik | still near what's-his-name? |
| 21:16.56 | siggraph | i haven't seen em since tues |
| 21:17.00 | ``Erik | ah |
| 21:17.05 | ``Erik | didja see... my balls? :D |
| 21:17.31 | IriX64 | the.... galls:) |
| 21:18.05 | ``Erik | http://math.missouristate.edu/~erik/niceballs.png hehehe |
| 21:18.24 | IriX64 | still waiting on a reply re the server. |
| 21:19.28 | siggraph | ``Erik: coolness |
| 21:22.41 | IriX64 | more i look at it... maybe the march of the balls.:) |
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| 21:33.50 | b0ef | siggraph: that's excellent to hear;) - this would include hierarchical NURBS as well, right?. (stitching together surfaces of different resolutions) |
| 21:39.20 | siggraph | to properly stitch together surfaces, you really need to be able to trim (some of) them for certain operations |
| 21:39.54 | siggraph | otherwise, you can even mix them with implicits and they'll evaluate correctly |
| 21:42.48 | b0ef | yes, trimming is very important;) |
| 22:05.22 | Twingy | you don't need trimming to stitch together surface |
| 22:06.20 | Twingy | you can do it with knot insertion using a third surface |
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| 22:10.42 | b0ef | Twingy: ah, you're the maintainer of nurbana;) |
| 22:13.27 | Twingy | or lack there of |
| 22:13.41 | b0ef | well, yeah, one day;) |
| 22:13.53 | b0ef | you should publish your paypal account;) |
| 22:14.33 | Twingy | nurbana was a learning experience |
| 22:17.00 | b0ef | you intend to pursue it with BRL-CAD? |
| 22:17.39 | Twingy | given the projects I'm currently involved with (Rocketry, GCAM, House Work) I'm afraid it won't happen |
| 22:18.52 | b0ef | sad; NURBS is really lacking in the free software world |
| 22:19.03 | b0ef | siggraph: have you decided on gtk+ yet?;) |
| 22:19.09 | siggraph | heh |
| 22:19.12 | b0ef | hehe |
| 22:19.20 | b0ef | indeed |
| 22:19.22 | pra5ad | siggraph: try out the full body DDR? |
| 22:19.44 | siggraph | pra5ad: they had that a couple years ago |
| 22:19.56 | pra5ad | is it production quality now? |
| 22:21.16 | Twingy | running a freebsd vm to do all my development on my mac is bliss |
| 22:22.23 | siggraph | pra5ad: pretty much |
| 22:22.37 | siggraph | there was much cooler stuff than that in emerging tech, though |
| 22:22.59 | Twingy | I can embrace apple as my desktop machine of choice |
| 22:23.21 | pra5ad | oh bice |
| 22:23.24 | pra5ad | nice* |
| 22:24.15 | Twingy | all on the same laptop |
| 22:27.49 | ``Erik | does it have a serial port? or do you have a usb/serial converter? |
| 22:28.52 | ``Erik | (or are you driving the programmer on a bsd or winderz box and just generating hex images on the lappie?) |
| 22:29.13 | Twingy | I ordered 2 yesterday |
| 22:29.20 | Twingy | seriolo |
| 22:29.26 | Twingy | $17 a piece |
| 22:29.41 | Twingy | my pair of semitech's are only supports by winbloze |
| 22:30.06 | ``Erik | I bought one a while back supported on winderz and mac, but lacking decent serial devices, haven't gotten it working yet |
| 22:30.27 | Twingy | I'm going to use mine with my garmin etrex |
| 22:30.51 | ``Erik | ooh, yeah, I got a legend with a serial cable somewhere... |
| 22:31.38 | Twingy | I just hope our parallels licenses come in before mine expires in 12 days |
| 22:33.01 | ``Erik | <-- likes shelling into a fbsd box to do dev, would rather avoid being in the same room as all the noise and heat from compiling :) |
| 22:33.57 | Twingy | doesn't work so well when you're in the middle of desert in yuma |
| 22:34.42 | ``Erik | true |
| 22:40.24 | Twingy | I'm saving so much money by eating $3 microwavable lunches |
| 22:40.51 | ``Erik | I spent $25 on eating out last month, heh |
| 22:40.55 | Twingy | I get cranky when I don't eat |
| 22:41.23 | ``Erik | me, too, I even got cranky in channel yesterday hehehehe |
| 22:41.53 | ``Erik | combination of no food, lack of caffeine, and totally wrong documentation |
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| 02:22.20 | IriX64 | windows media player now recognizes jump drive and plays from it, slick, job done moose, gromph. |
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| 03:34.57 | noidea697 | Hi all, I'm learning BRLCAD and trying to create a hollow trc shape like a funnel with a wall thickness. I cannot seem to get the Boolean operations correct. Sorry to be such a pain. |
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| 15:46.54 | CIA-9 | BRL-CAD: 03erikgreenwald * 10brlcad/src/librt/g_metaball.c: |
| 15:46.54 | CIA-9 | BRL-CAD: Fixed point value function (f^2/r^2 instead of f/r^2). Fixed steppers |
| 15:46.54 | CIA-9 | BRL-CAD: "dist left" concept. (those two fix 'large' object rendering). Renamed |
| 15:46.54 | CIA-9 | BRL-CAD: and deleted variables for readability. |
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| 20:06.00 | *** topic/#brlcad by brlcad -> http://brlcad.org/ || BRL-CAD is an open source solid modeling software suite || Developers needed! Read the HACKING file for details on getting involved | |
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| 04:49.09 | Twingy | http://js.cx/~justin/alumaforge1/ |
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| 11:24.10 | brlcad | heh, nifty |
| 11:41.01 | ``Erik | cool, a successful button |
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| 18:36.15 | IriX64 | in conversation more things come. |
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| 19:01.47 | IriX64 | ldconfig: line 1 command not found?????? |
| 19:02.21 | IriX64 | errr libtool ... |
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| 19:55.26 | brlcad | compile error? |
| 19:57.21 | IriX64 | yeah. |
| 19:58.22 | IriX64 | err install time. |
| 20:03.53 | ``Erik | did you unbreak src/mged, sean? |
| 20:04.05 | ``Erik | like, dm-tk.c or something? |
| 20:04.13 | brlcad | hmm |
| 20:04.16 | brlcad | that got committed? |
| 20:04.23 | ``Erik | it was in the Makefile.am |
| 20:04.26 | ``Erik | but the src file was not there |
| 20:04.26 | brlcad | ahhh |
| 20:04.33 | ``Erik | I touched it to get the build to work on my local system |
| 20:04.45 | ``Erik | but most folk will just throw their hands int he air and say brlcad sucks cuz it won't compile |
| 20:05.03 | brlcad | yeah, i've got like 3 threads of mods going on at once in the same checkout, so the commits have been careful piecemeal |
| 20:05.11 | brlcad | the rest should be going in today |
| 20:05.14 | brlcad | working on it all now |
| 20:05.19 | IriX64 | brlcad sucks cause it wont compile on my coleco :) |
| 20:05.40 | ``Erik | um, actually, irix, it probably would... |
| 20:05.41 | ``Erik | :) |
| 20:05.48 | ``Erik | colecos run cp/m on a z80 last I looked |
| 20:05.58 | IriX64 | given a decent compiler ... i agree :) |
| 20:06.05 | brlcad | ``Erik: i only know of one.. that does the throwing their hands up bit without even reading the error message |
| 20:06.39 | ``Erik | heh |
| 20:06.56 | ``Erik | still ain't good to have a broken cvs repo, especially without a -stable branch |
| 20:10.05 | brlcad | yep |
| 20:11.00 | brlcad | had I had internet more consistently, I would have just had multiple checkouts but often went half the day so I just churned through different stuff all at once |
| 20:19.09 | ``Erik | without even branching, bastage |
| 20:20.09 | ``Erik | anyways, that was the only breakage I saw, went in with a wgl commit |
| 20:21.22 | brlcad | yep, that was why |
| 20:21.46 | brlcad | the wgl stuff is an attempt to untangle the mess bob has in there with the ogl interface |
| 20:22.01 | brlcad | i'm sure the windows build is busted right now |
| 20:23.24 | ``Erik | hrmph, mebbe a sit-together between him and a *nix weenie is needed |
| 20:35.39 | brlcad | nah, it's not really expertise, he just doesn't care really about that sort of stuff .. easiest fix is his method, no matter how messy .. |
| 20:37.22 | ``Erik | heh |
| 20:38.31 | ``Erik | if he breaks bsd, I'll break it right back. ;D |
| 20:40.49 | brlcad | he generally doesn't.. mostly riddles the code with #ifdef PLATFORM junk |
| 20:56.20 | ``Erik | #ifdef WINDOWS, not #ifdef HAVE_SOMETHING ? |
| 21:03.56 | brlcad | yep |
| 21:04.30 | brlcad | just do a search on _WIN32 and you'll see his stuff :) |
| 21:04.46 | brlcad | that's like a laundry to-do list |
| 21:05.32 | brlcad | though some of it predates them |
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| 15:00.04 | CIA-9 | BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/other/jove/findcom.c: quell warnings about implicit declarations |
| 15:17.42 | ``Erik | rm -rf src/other/jove |
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| 15:34.27 | CIA-9 | BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/doc/PROJECTS: |
| 15:34.27 | CIA-9 | BRL-CAD: BRL-CAD is comprised of several isolatable projects that have specific |
| 15:34.27 | CIA-9 | BRL-CAD: distinguishing qualities of utility that make them useful as |
| 15:34.27 | CIA-9 | BRL-CAD: stand-alone projects to a wide audience of users. In some cases, |
| 15:34.27 | CIA-9 | BRL-CAD: these projects may be independently maintained and are sometimes |
| 15:34.28 | CIA-9 | BRL-CAD: independently distributed. These projects are described in this file. |
| 15:34.55 | CIA-9 | BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/doc/Makefile.am: add PROJECTS and IDEAS to the list of documentation |
| 15:38.13 | CIA-9 | BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/doc/PROJECTS: clean up the introductory description paragraph a little |
| 15:42.27 | CIA-9 | BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/doc/PROJECTS: spel chek |
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| 02:53.31 | IriX64 | brlcad.exe ... sweet.;) |
| 03:36.48 | IriX64 | just rename mged.exe to brlcad.exe :) |
| 03:37.19 | IriX64 | sigh, nobody called me on it so i gave.:) |
| 03:54.48 | brlcad | mged isn't worthy to be called brlcad.exe |
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| 10:00.09 | CIA-9 | BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/conv/off/Makefile.am: s/LIBRT/RT/ |
| 10:01.59 | CIA-9 | BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/mged/Makefile.am: dm-tk.c isn't ready yet |
| 10:17.02 | CIA-9 | BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/ (include/light.h src/liboptical/sh_light.c): revert the unlimited lights change briefly until it is determined why they are not working for area light sources |
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| 14:09.30 | CIA-9 | BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/include/dm.h: unnecesary IF_OGL define |
| 15:35.22 | CIA-9 | BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/include/dm.h: revert, wrong edited dm.h.. not yet ready for the tk interface |
| 15:54.44 | ``Erik | the girl is good |
| 15:55.15 | ``Erik | I wonder how much writing is done by her uncredited band |
| 16:05.11 | CIA-9 | BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/ (21 files in 13 dirs): add explicit code for DM_WGL and IF_WGL for Windows GL support instead of piggybacking off of the OGL interface |
| 16:34.33 | *** join/#brlcad digitalfredy (n=digitalf@200.71.62.161) | |
| 16:57.06 | CIA-9 | BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/ (4 files in 3 dirs): remove the if_ogl_win32.c interface .. Windows platforms should now be using the if_wgl.c interface instead |
| 17:26.54 | CIA-9 | BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/misc/win32-msvc7/libdm/libdm.vcproj: windows uses dm-wgl.c now, not dm-ogl_win.c .. the latter exists no more |
| 17:27.35 | CIA-9 | BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/misc/win32-msvc7/mged/mged.vcproj: compile the new dm-wgl.c interface instead of dm-ogl.c now on Windows |
| 17:29.38 | CIA-9 | BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/mged/dm-wgl.c: add a new dm-wgl.c interface for windows to use instead of piggypacking off of the ogl interface |
| 17:32.50 | CIA-9 | BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/libdm/dm-glx.c: remove the old DM_OGL hack on the GLX interface.. move towards decoupling the two |
| 17:38.15 | CIA-9 | BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/mged/dm-ogl.c: no longer need the _WIN32 section, they get their own dm-wgl.c interface |
| 17:44.00 | CIA-9 | BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/mged/mged_dm.h: no longer need the ogl_ogl externs.. |
| 17:47.09 | CIA-9 | BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/remrt/Makefile.am: remrt does use libfb directly and needs to declare the dependency even if another dependency also uses it. libtool is supposed to sort it all out |
| 17:55.55 | CIA-9 | BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/ (5 files in 2 dirs): IF_4D interface is not really shipped any more, don't talk about it |
| 17:57.51 | CIA-9 | BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/libfb/ (Makefile.am if_4d-old.c): mark the if_4d-old interface as now obsolete, no longer shipping the sources leaving it to cvs history |
| 18:11.17 | CIA-9 | BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/libfb/if_ogl.c: reword away if_4d.c |
| 19:11.01 | IriX64 | weet weet all reet. :) |
| 19:11.28 | IriX64 | hey man if the crease comes outta my peg leg pants, the world will end :) |
| 19:17.26 | IriX64 | l8r |
| 20:04.37 | *** join/#brlcad IriX64 (n=IriX64@toronto-HSE-ppp4303834.sympatico.ca) | |
| 20:22.20 | CIA-9 | BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/ (5 files in 4 dirs): decouple IF_X from the other framebuffer interfaces (ogl and wgl in particular). Windows should not define IF_X unless they want the X11 interface. |
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| 21:43.17 | CIA-9 | BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/include/dm-X.h: cleanup, ws |
| 21:48.39 | CIA-9 | BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/include/dm_xvars.h: |
| 21:48.39 | CIA-9 | BRL-CAD: collapse the two structures into one, even though the structure really should |
| 21:48.39 | CIA-9 | BRL-CAD: NOT be serving double-duty and be compile-time variable-width.. doesn't allow |
| 21:48.39 | CIA-9 | BRL-CAD: multiple interfaces to be simultaneously compiled. should absorb the interface |
| 21:48.39 | CIA-9 | BRL-CAD: into dm-X.h and friends at some point. |
| 21:49.32 | CIA-9 | BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/libdm/dm_obj.c: header cleanup, get rid of _WIN32 |
| 21:50.04 | CIA-9 | BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/mged/ (dm-X.c dm-ogl.c dm-wgl.c): ws |
| 21:50.49 | CIA-9 | BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/mged/dm-generic.c: header cleanup, ws |
| 21:51.22 | CIA-9 | BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/mged/doevent.c: ws |
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| 23:02.32 | Twingy | any news on the parallels licenses? |
| 00:37.38 | IriX64 | 4 hrs i should have a cassie 4.1.1 :) |
| 00:50.11 | CIA-9 | BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/misc/win32-msvc7/mged/mged.vcproj: don't define DM_X, should be only using DM_WGL now on Windows |
| 00:52.42 | *** join/#brlcad ``Erik (i=erik@c-69-250-155-85.hsd1.md.comcast.net) | |
| 00:58.07 | CIA-9 | BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/libdm/ (dm-generic.c dm_obj.c libdm.dsp query.c tcl.c): decouple DM_X from the other display manager interfaces, clean up the preprocessor logic so Windows does not need to declare it |
| 01:21.33 | IriX64 | how long do we wait before we can post after a CIA-9 post? |
| 01:26.11 | *** join/#brlcad PrezKennedy (n=Apathy@c-69-250-236-100.hsd1.md.comcast.net) | |
| 01:26.47 | IriX64 | reboot, back later. |
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| 01:39.54 | IriX64 | Did I get an answer? Time after CIA-9 posts before mere mortals can post again? |
| 02:32.15 | brlcad | IriX64: don't understand the question |
| 02:33.11 | brlcad | CIA merely posts a notification when a CVS commit is performed to the source repository, so everyone knows exactly who is doing what and when generally speaking |
| 02:35.40 | CIA-9 | BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/configure.ac: check for pipe() |
| 02:43.44 | IriX64 | just thought i was interefering with development. |
| 02:44.14 | IriX64 | thought there was a protocol of some type here. |
| 02:50.46 | brlcad | only when you go on your pasting rampages |
| 02:52.20 | brlcad | if there's design or development discussions going on, off-topic and just basic "chit-chat" chatter would be frowned upon but not when we're like this |
| 02:52.40 | IriX64 | thanks for the explanation. |
| 02:52.42 | brlcad | relatively low energy in the channel, simple to manage.. nobody has to wade through to get a word in |
| 02:53.07 | IriX64 | my diff is huge :) |
| 02:53.35 | IriX64 | aieeeee patch broke ;) |
| 02:55.09 | IriX64 | 9 minuts? thought my system was faster than that. |
| 02:55.21 | CIA-9 | BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/mged/ (10 files): decouple DM_X from the other display manager interfaces, clean up the preprocessor logic so Windows does not need to declare DM_X but also to avoid using _WIN32 where possible as well. |
| 02:55.50 | brlcad | you ever figure out why your wallclock counts are so low? |
| 02:56.04 | IriX64 | didnt want to do the math. |
| 02:56.41 | IriX64 | lets see what bench has to say. |
| 02:59.05 | brlcad | your rtfm was fine |
| 02:59.16 | brlcad | but it is WAY off your wallclock count, which isn't right |
| 02:59.57 | IriX64 | think i fixed it doing a raytrace right now. |
| 03:00.08 | brlcad | implies something systemic is abnormal with your system |
| 03:00.19 | IriX64 | hrmmph problem is bench is running too. |
| 03:00.44 | brlcad | like it's abnormally busy doing way too many other things while the benchmark is running, or you have several benchmarks running simultaneously |
| 03:01.27 | IriX64 | when are you going to use your overlap tool to fix the overlaps in havoc? |
| 03:02.58 | IriX64 | benching bldg391 whil i'm raytracing havoc, get real. |
| 03:03.41 | brlcad | fixing havoc is left as an exercise for someone in the community |
| 03:05.09 | IriX64 | 496829 rays in 12.38 secs = 40147.80 rays/sec (RTFM) and 496829 rays in 242.18 secs = 2051.49 rays/sec (Wallclock) that better? |
| 03:05.33 | IriX64 | and bench just fixished. |
| 03:06.32 | IriX64 | 2844 times faster than the 780. not bad i guess. |
| 03:08.05 | IriX64 | now how the heck did translate break (sigh) |
| 03:10.37 | IriX64 | what do you *mean its the shift key not the ctrl key? (I'm in ramble on mode) |
| 03:11.16 | IriX64 | got them backwards thats all ill just change the docs, cheap fix. :) |
| 03:11.17 | brlcad | no that's not better |
| 03:11.37 | brlcad | the rays/sec for wallclock shouldn't be more than 10% different from the RTFM rays/sec |
| 03:11.54 | IriX64 | explain why. |
| 03:12.36 | brlcad | you're currently at about 2000% different |
| 03:12.43 | Twingy | cause you aint running anything else |
| 03:12.50 | brlcad | i can't explain why without seeing what's going on |
| 03:12.52 | IriX64 | but explain how its supposed to be 10% |
| 03:12.53 | Twingy | brlcad, news on parallels licenses? |
| 03:12.57 | brlcad | does it actually take 242 seconds to raytrace? |
| 03:13.03 | IriX64 | yes |
| 03:13.17 | brlcad | Twingy: beats me, i haven't been in to the office since well before siggy |
| 03:13.29 | Twingy | are you on vacation? |
| 03:13.47 | brlcad | not really |
| 03:13.50 | brlcad | just haven't been back |
| 03:13.56 | brlcad | it's only been a day |
| 03:14.16 | Twingy | but darlene has the order right? |
| 03:15.22 | Twingy | if not I'll have her order one for me |
| 03:16.33 | IriX64 | perhaps itll help if we compare output devices? |
| 03:17.08 | brlcad | i have no idea what the status is |
| 03:19.17 | Twingy | k, if Wendy comaplains I will get Drew to order for me |
| 03:21.47 | brlcad | IriX64: 9 chances out of 10, it's not a brl-cad configuration issue |
| 03:21.59 | brlcad | it's something going on with your system |
| 03:22.10 | brlcad | run top or something to see what's eating up cpu cycles |
| 03:25.15 | IriX64 | at the moment loadavg is 0% |
| 03:25.46 | brlcad | i find that hard to believe |
| 03:25.50 | brlcad | what does uptime say? |
| 03:25.57 | IriX64 | hey irc takes nothing. |
| 03:26.04 | IriX64 | nothing else going on. |
| 03:26.20 | IriX64 | let me check taskmanager. |
| 03:26.31 | brlcad | ooh, you're on windows? |
| 03:26.31 | IriX64 | both agree 0-1% load. |
| 03:26.42 | IriX64 | sorta |
| 03:26.56 | brlcad | softa? you either are or aren't :) |
| 03:27.07 | IriX64 | do a ver on me. |
| 03:27.27 | brlcad | that doesn't tell me anything about what kernel/OS you're running |
| 03:27.27 | IriX64 | *nix high on windows. :) |
| 03:27.40 | brlcad | only you know that |
| 03:28.02 | brlcad | just by the fact that you have taskmanager though pretty much says it |
| 03:28.07 | IriX64 | all right windows xp base running cygwin_nt |
| 03:28.15 | brlcad | fair enough |
| 03:28.21 | Twingy | and your nickname is Irix64 *boggle* |
| 03:28.29 | IriX64 | you picked it. |
| 03:28.37 | brlcad | i suspect you do have hidden processes running that are hiding themselves from the taskmanager |
| 03:28.47 | brlcad | rather cpu-intensive ones |
| 03:28.47 | IriX64 | no way |
| 03:28.56 | IriX64 | i would know |
| 03:28.58 | brlcad | heh |
| 03:29.00 | IriX64 | err |
| 03:29.06 | brlcad | and how praytell would you know? |
| 03:29.13 | IriX64 | yah groaner :) |
| 03:29.22 | brlcad | you have a massive indicator right there with the performance number |
| 03:29.28 | brlcad | massive massive descrepancy |
| 03:29.44 | IriX64 | on my system *everything that runs is given a name and entered into task manager |
| 03:29.45 | brlcad | tis the nature of much spyware |
| 03:30.03 | IriX64 | no empahtically no. |
| 03:30.04 | brlcad | nah, you can run apps that are hidden from taskmanager |
| 03:30.10 | brlcad | used to do that back in the day |
| 03:30.12 | IriX64 | not *here. |
| 03:30.21 | Twingy | I think you should install parallels rather than arguing with IriX64 |
| 03:30.30 | brlcad | you're on windows, it's possible |
| 03:30.50 | IriX64 | what are parallels? |
| 03:31.06 | IriX64 | ok brlcad its possible. |
| 03:31.08 | brlcad | heck, it could even be a virus infected dll or other system-level injection |
| 03:31.21 | brlcad | that could go completely undetected |
| 03:31.29 | IriX64 | what do *you raytrace to? |
| 03:31.41 | brlcad | parallels is a virtual machine |
| 03:31.52 | IriX64 | vmware style? |
| 03:31.52 | brlcad | sort of like vmware |
| 03:31.52 | brlcad | but cheaper |
| 03:32.01 | brlcad | less developer-feature-filled |
| 03:32.11 | IriX64 | got os/2 warp 4 to run on vmware but what a slug. |
| 03:32.12 | brlcad | but capable of running multiple simultaneous OS images |
| 03:33.33 | IriX64 | i'm told brlcad can bench press three of ``Erik :) |
| 03:35.12 | brlcad | not from the looks of his belly recently :) *ahem* |
| 03:44.49 | IriX64 | you've seen my belly? *shrug* I don't hide it. |
| 03:45.00 | IriX64 | :) |
| 03:45.44 | IriX64 | you're wondering about me lets get peronal, I'm Mario and i'm class of 54. |
| 03:46.07 | IriX64 | errrr personal too. :) |
| 03:46.57 | brlcad | actually i meant erik's but good to know mario |
| 03:47.06 | IriX64 | brlcad i put you in your early 40's? |
| 03:47.32 | brlcad | nah, i'm a young whipper snapper |
| 03:47.36 | brlcad | at least that's what I tell myself |
| 03:47.47 | IriX64 | hah so do I.:) |
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| 03:52.08 | IriX64_ | my night at the opera, see if you can find me. |
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| 04:08.47 | IriX64 | back to shift grips :) |
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| 04:18.14 | IriX64 | IriX64_: Doofus you said shift grips :) |
| 04:25.38 | IriX64 | we were talking about rtfm to wallclock times, whats the ratio? |
| 04:26.53 | CIA-9 | BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/BUGS: debugbu 2 immediately reports a bu_vls_free() error.. apparently been a problem since 4.5 days at least (bug found in doc/html/manuals/mged/bugs) |
| 04:27.47 | IriX64 | bug i can bring up two instances of mged (or is this by design?) |
| 04:28.18 | CIA-9 | BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/doc/html/manuals/mged/ (Makefile.am bugs): get rid of doc/html/manuals/mged/bugs .. the main bug in there was verified to still be a problem and was added to the BUGS file. either way, we don't need this old 'bugs' file any more. |
| 04:31.05 | IriX64 | may i send you my mged.exe? |
| 04:32.13 | IriX64 | you think only cvs people are capable of contributing? |
| 04:34.13 | brlcad | the rtfm rays/sec and the wallclock rays/sec should be within 10% of each otehr, so a ratio of .. 9:10 or thereabouts? |
| 04:34.47 | brlcad | being able to run multiple mgeds is definitely by design |
| 04:36.04 | IriX64 | 9:10? lets define this, a ray is considered finished when? |
| 04:37.18 | brlcad | there's documentation on the various values that I'd rather not describe over irc .. maybe read the benchmark.tr nroff document if you *really* want to know |
| 04:37.35 | brlcad | but suffice it to say that they should NOT be that different rays/sec if everything is "normal" |
| 04:37.51 | IriX64 | *really* yes. |
| 04:39.49 | brlcad | rtfm takes into consideration several aspects outside of your control like how long it takes a process to start up only counting the CPU time that you are actually allocated |
| 04:40.17 | brlcad | wallclock time counts the amount of actual time elapsed as measured by a clock |
| 04:41.16 | IriX64 | how do you measure cpu time what function please clock() or time()? |
| 04:41.20 | brlcad | those shouldn't only be within 10% .. they should be nearly identical .. but some systems are better than others and there's some minor variance based on how busy systems are, how long the context switches are, etc |
| 04:41.53 | IriX64 | why dont i just look in the code :) |
| 04:43.47 | brlcad | with yours as big as it is, it's pointing a big finger at there being something serious going on like something hogging the cpu or a bug in the wallclock computation code |
| 04:44.04 | brlcad | the latter isn't the case as you mentioned that's about how long it takes |
| 04:44.32 | brlcad | which is incredible as that is very very slow for the benchmark images |
| 04:44.43 | brlcad | they should just take a few seconds per frame |
| 04:47.11 | IriX64 | err brlcad: thats the output of raytraceing while actually rendering the image to the tube quite fast considering what its doing. |
| 04:47.48 | brlcad | it should just take a few seconds to fully generate the image |
| 04:48.03 | IriX64 | its a solid model brlcad think. |
| 04:49.11 | IriX64 | i should send you a screen shot of my screen with one rendered, if i knew how i would. |
| 04:49.55 | IriX64 | be back in a moment my attention is required outside. |
| 04:52.04 | brlcad | i never said it wasn't a solid model |
| 04:52.16 | brlcad | never said that I doubt it renders incorrectly either |
| 04:52.31 | brlcad | s/incorrectly/correctly/ |
| 04:52.46 | brlcad | the only thing wrong is the performance.. that is WAY too slow |
| 04:53.24 | brlcad | unless you're running XP on a 486 or something slower |
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| 05:02.04 | CIA-9 | BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/doc/html/manuals/mged/ (mug mug_camo): get rid of the old path |
| 05:03.23 | CIA-9 | BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/doc/mged.tr: get rid of the old path |
| 05:05.44 | IriX64_ | 486??? |
| 05:05.55 | IriX64_ | they still make those? |
| 05:05.57 | IriX64_ | :) |
| 05:07.19 | IriX64_ | ever hear of the dos game doom? |
| 05:07.47 | IriX64_ | music and all, vmware suck my arse with your face :) |
| 05:09.07 | IriX64_ | hairy virtualizing interrupt and dma and sundry hardware the game expects. |
| 05:15.55 | CIA-9 | BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/ (14 files in 7 dirs): get rid of the old 'cad' path references/assumptions |
| 05:16.36 | IriX64_ | simple concept really, you provide a dos environment and any dos program that expects a certain environment usually probes irq's and dma's and such if you feel the probe map it to whats really there if the program doesn't probe try to provide "generic" hardware. |
| 05:30.08 | CIA-9 | BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/libdm/dm-ogl_win.c: removed the replaced file. dm-ogl_win.c is no more, replaced by the dm-wgl.c interface file. |
| 05:42.11 | CIA-9 | BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/libtclcad/libtclcad.dsp: take a manual stab at an initial msvc build file for libtclcad (needed for the sketch editor) |
| 05:49.10 | CIA-9 | BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/libsysv/Makefile.am: make vers.c correctly rebuild if a source file changes |
| 05:49.29 | CIA-9 | BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/libtclcad/Makefile.am: add the new windows build file to the dist |
| 05:51.42 | CIA-9 | BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/misc/win32-msvc/brlcad.dsw: add libtclcad to the msvc brlcad dll build workspace |
| 05:55.59 | CIA-9 | BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/mged/attach.c: looks like bezier canvas support should now be available for both windows studio build projects. libtclcad should build sans tk sources now, try enabling it. |
| 05:57.18 | CIA-9 | BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/mged/attach.c: remove apparently dead code, 'do_2nd_attach_prompt()' |
| 06:08.50 | CIA-9 | BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/mged/ (dm-X.c dm-ogl.c dm-wgl.c mged_dm.h): move the common_dm() decl over to mged_dm.h |
| 06:16.16 | CIA-9 | BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/mged/ (chgview.c cmd.c vrlink.c): enable the 'pov' command, getting rid of the peculiar undocumented TCP_FILES define. move cmd_pov over to chgview.c like the comment suggests. (note that the command guts are over in librt) |
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| 06:47.37 | CIA-9 | BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/libfb/ (26 files): get rid of the libfb-specific _LOCAL_ macro, instead using HIDDEN like everyone else (currently still provided by machine.h) |
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| 16:37.43 | CIA-9 | BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/tclscripts/mged/callbacks.tcl: quell warnings about mged_display not being set, make sure the variables even exist |
| 16:44.11 | CIA-9 | BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/mged/edsol.c: |
| 16:44.11 | CIA-9 | BRL-CAD: add a lot of checks for valid pointers as part of isolating a 'P' binding crash |
| 16:44.11 | CIA-9 | BRL-CAD: bug (sf bug 1375751: P shuts down mged). the crash was the result of a bus |
| 16:44.11 | CIA-9 | BRL-CAD: error inside of Tcl_AppendResult of all places, where the second |
| 16:44.11 | CIA-9 | BRL-CAD: Tcl_AppendResult() after the one inside not_state() would cause a crash. this |
| 16:44.14 | CIA-9 | BRL-CAD: may indicate some other interp initialization problem, but the fix in place does |
| 16:44.16 | CIA-9 | BRL-CAD: seem to keep things going nicely. |
| 16:56.18 | ``Erik | hm |
| 16:58.11 | CIA-9 | BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/mged/chgtree.c: not_state() now reports the desired state too, so no need for the extra printing |
| 16:59.06 | CIA-9 | BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/mged/buttons.c: print out the expected/desired state so the user has a clue as to what to do to resolve the problem when not in the right editing mode. |
| 17:00.16 | CIA-9 | BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/mged/edsol.c: not_state now reports the desired state, so no need to print a message. be consistent with the printing and the command name category (sedit). |
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| 17:02.03 | CIA-9 | BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/NEWS: fixed mged crash on P binding when not in edit mode. this fixes sf bug 1375751 (P shuts down mged) reported by bob2. |
| 18:02.52 | CIA-9 | BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/ (include/light.h src/liboptical/sh_light.c): incremental update this time.. change MAX_LIGHT_SAMPLES to SOME_LIGHT_SAMPLES |
| 18:07.20 | *** join/#brlcad IriX64 (n=IriX64@toronto-HSE-ppp4303658.sympatico.ca) | |
| 18:08.15 | IriX64 | what was that about a pencil tapping your teeth? |
| 18:08.42 | IriX64 | easy,easy,money and your chicks for free, right fatso :) |
| 18:09.49 | IriX64 | the doc says it's good for you ;) |
| 18:10.59 | IriX64 | should look that formula up, make some easy money, only how do i get Canada to tap their teeth with a lead pencil? |
| 18:13.53 | IriX64 | Captains mess, anyone ;) |
| 18:14.45 | IriX64 | mater and pater are here, be back in a bit. |
| 18:23.03 | CIA-9 | BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/misc/Makefile.defs: be sure to delete static and other 'regular' or noinst libraries during a make noprod |
| 18:24.10 | IriX64 | visit successfull :) |
| 18:29.01 | CIA-9 | BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/ (include/light.h src/liboptical/sh_light.c): next step in the incremental update, dynamically allocate the light sample points array instead of using a fixed size. |
| 18:33.47 | IriX64 | brlcad: i still can't get this math right, 2.61 secs RTFM 56.97 secs wallclock. |
| 18:34.18 | IriX64 | havoc.g |
| 18:35.13 | IriX64 | but its consistent across runs. |
| 18:37.14 | IriX64 | lets try bldg391. |
| 18:38.39 | IriX64 | 1.25 rtfm 11.91 wallclock |
| 18:39.37 | IriX64 | lets try the deuce and a 1/2 |
| 18:51.10 | IriX64 | 5.56 rtfm 93.55 wallclock |
| 18:52.13 | IriX64 | whats your e-mail, ill send you a .jpg shot of my screen. |
| 18:54.01 | IriX64 | pastebin doesn't allow jpgs. |
| 18:54.10 | brlcad | jpg of your screen isn't useful |
| 18:54.24 | IriX64 | what do you need to help out here? |
| 18:55.14 | brlcad | I'd start by installing some antivirus and antispyware software and see what all comes up |
| 18:55.26 | IriX64 | all right. |
| 18:56.29 | brlcad | clamAV is free, not sure how good their antispyware is though |
| 18:56.45 | IriX64 | truck looks good though, nice green field its sitting on. |
| 18:57.43 | IriX64 | gold tipped exhaust pipe... nothings to good for the military. :) |
| 18:57.45 | brlcad | this looks good: http://www.spywareterminator.com/ |
| 18:58.07 | IriX64 | i'll try mcaffee first. |
| 18:59.08 | brlcad | mcafee sells a separate anti-spyware product if all you have is their antivirus |
| 18:59.28 | brlcad | virus will be good to check for .. but should be sure to check for both |
| 18:59.33 | IriX64 | think i bought the full package, ill dig it out and see. |
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| 19:19.08 | IriX64 | look brlcad: it takes time to draw an image on the screen, theres no way your 10% figure can apply. |
| 19:22.58 | IriX64 | ill either dcc send you a screenshot with the figures on it or ill e-mail it to you. |
| 19:23.09 | IriX64 | and the picture on it. |
| 19:24.23 | IriX64 | e-mail address? |
| 19:24.55 | IriX64 | everythings clearly visible. |
| 19:25.23 | brlcad | if it takes 20x the ray-trace time, it would imply a serious bug |
| 19:25.40 | brlcad | and I've run ray-traces on windows and don't see that sort of different |
| 19:26.17 | IriX64 | all right how long does *yours take to draw the m35 on your screen, im talking about the solid model picture, not the wire frame. |
| 19:26.46 | IriX64 | err pardon? windows? |
| 19:26.47 | brlcad | here's what moss looks like for me: 759710.95 rays/sec (RTFM) 748857.07 rays/sec (wallclock) |
| 19:27.11 | IriX64 | it renders that fast? |
| 19:27.29 | IriX64 | im not talking make benchmark here. |
| 19:27.47 | IriX64 | thats the shot summary im getting my numbers from. |
| 19:28.11 | brlcad | this has nothing to do with the model or benchmark |
| 19:28.25 | brlcad | it's just relative performance numbers |
| 19:28.32 | brlcad | doesn't matter what model either |
| 19:28.56 | IriX64 | screw its accuarate i used a stop watch. off by maybe a second or two but its accyrate. |
| 19:29.06 | IriX64 | accurate too. |
| 19:29.24 | brlcad | sure, it's accurate |
| 19:29.27 | IriX64 | the math, she's good :) |
| 19:29.39 | brlcad | it's not once been a question to ME whether the values were being computed correctly |
| 19:29.45 | brlcad | this is pretty stable code |
| 19:30.09 | IriX64 | *shrug* my code becomes stable with age too :) |
| 19:30.25 | brlcad | which is exactly why it points at something wrong with your system, why must I keep repeating this?? :) |
| 19:30.38 | brlcad | i personally don't really care |
| 19:30.42 | brlcad | it's your system |
| 19:30.49 | brlcad | but it does indicate some serious problem |
| 19:31.03 | IriX64 | all right send me the pix of moss (mario.dulisse2@sympatico.ca) |
| 19:31.04 | brlcad | not a problem with brl-cad or how the ray-trace runs |
| 19:31.14 | brlcad | or what the results look like |
| 19:31.19 | brlcad | that is ALL fine |
| 19:31.26 | brlcad | what is wrong is how slow/fast it's running for you |
| 19:31.51 | brlcad | you're not going to SEE anything related to this problem with a pix |
| 19:31.59 | brlcad | other than it rendering slow |
| 19:32.13 | brlcad | is this not clear?? |
| 19:32.18 | IriX64 | you expect the pix to just appear? |
| 19:32.36 | IriX64 | drawing an image on the tube can not be that fast. |
| 19:33.10 | brlcad | some images are pretty much immediate, others not more than a few seconds |
| 19:33.19 | brlcad | you're looking at several minutes on your system |
| 19:34.17 | brlcad | you mentioned m35 rendering - how long does it take m35 to raytrace into a 512x512 window? |
| 19:34.39 | IriX64 | yes anyway im happy thanks, ill get that mcaffee dug out. lost everything in a crash 3 months ago and am slow to getting around to restoring some things. |
| 19:35.18 | brlcad | *shrug* .. if it is systemic, it means something else basically has control of your system :) |
| 19:36.22 | IriX64 | 512x512 just a sec |
| 19:36.47 | brlcad | you mentioned cygwin, that could be causing a big performance penalty of some sort -- haven't looked at the numbers there in a while |
| 19:37.01 | IriX64 | 65.17 wallclock and 3.84 rtfm. |
| 19:37.50 | brlcad | see -- that means it only spent 4 seconds on the cpu .. but for "some" reason more than a minute elapsed from the time the ray-trace began until it completed |
| 19:38.21 | brlcad | there wasn't more than 3.84 seconds worth of work, but something slowed it down |
| 19:38.29 | IriX64 | of course because the pixels have to be lit or turned off sheesh. |
| 19:38.39 | brlcad | that could be a virus, spyware, cygwin.. something else |
| 19:39.03 | brlcad | i'd be surprised if cygwin was _that_ bad at I/O |
| 19:39.29 | IriX64 | you using a hardware x? |
| 19:40.49 | IriX64 | rember there two layers of graphics here windows and xserver althought the screens are seamless theres still graphic overhead to contend with. |
| 19:43.08 | IriX64 | need a smoke be back shortly. |
| 19:43.11 | brlcad | there's not any configuration setup that should have a discrepancy as large as yours is :) |
| 19:46.23 | ``Erik | *yawn* |
| 19:47.43 | ``Erik | heh, sean, I did an update and now libfb doesn't want to compile, it's seeing two do_event()s defined, and HIDDEN is reducing to /***/ instead of static o.O what'd you do tot he thing? |
| 19:48.26 | ``Erik | <-- hacked his if_X.c if_wgl.c and if_glx.c to change the func name to like do_X_event() or do_wgl_event depending on file.. think that would be worth a commit? |
| 19:48.46 | brlcad | ``Erik: yeah, I know .. i have a fix for that here |
| 19:49.38 | brlcad | there's a few of them |
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| 20:02.35 | IriX64 | brlcad: you are a very patient man, thanks for the input. |
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| 22:07.19 | CIA-9 | BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/liboptical/sh_light.c: final mod to allow for arbitrary counts of light point samples. the point sample array is allocated in batches of SOME_LIGHT_SAMPLES. |
| 22:16.46 | CIA-9 | BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/liboptical/sh_stack.c: avoid debug mode namespace conflicts with libfb's stack interface (where HIDDEN becomes /**/) |
| 22:16.56 | CIA-9 | BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/liboptical/sh_null.c: avoid debug mode namespace conflicts with libfb's null interface (where HIDDEN becomes /**/) |
| 22:17.48 | ``Erik | sean, you doing the 'week off after siggraph' thing? |
| 22:18.44 | dtidrow_work | c'mon, SIGGRAPH _is_ a week off ;-) |
| 22:18.59 | dtidrow_work | 'cept for the parties... |
| 22:19.03 | ``Erik | heh |
| 22:19.09 | ``Erik | yeah, last year, I hurt my ankle pretty bad |
| 22:19.22 | ``Erik | falling down, uh, stairs, at a nightclub, for an afterparty |
| 22:19.22 | ``Erik | heh |
| 22:19.28 | ``Erik | <-- retarded |
| 22:19.30 | dtidrow_work | which one? |
| 22:19.51 | ``Erik | hrm? which club? or which party? |
| 22:19.58 | ``Erik | it was at 'the mayan' in downtown la |
| 22:19.59 | dtidrow_work | which party |
| 22:20.08 | ``Erik | I don't remember who was throwing it |
| 22:20.19 | ``Erik | some flyers were handed out |
| 22:20.22 | ``Erik | like the acm one or something |
| 22:20.25 | dtidrow_work | that's where the chapters party was, right? |
| 22:20.32 | ``Erik | yeah, I think that was it |
| 22:20.35 | ``Erik | that sounds familiar |
| 22:20.37 | dtidrow_work | k |
| 22:20.43 | dtidrow_work | was there too :-) |
| 22:20.51 | ``Erik | with the stirppers dancing on the boxes? |
| 22:20.54 | ``Erik | 'cept they didn't strip |
| 22:20.55 | ``Erik | heh |
| 22:21.02 | dtidrow_work | yeah |
| 22:21.07 | ``Erik | and the big circular thing they were playing crap on |
| 22:21.15 | ``Erik | <-- stayed there pretty late |
| 22:21.17 | dtidrow_work | we nicknamed them the 'anime dancers' :-) |
| 22:21.27 | ``Erik | y'know the ampitheater seating on the upper level? |
| 22:21.31 | dtidrow_work | yep |
| 22:21.41 | ``Erik | I was walking down those, hit a corner of a stemp with my heal trying to get into the seating |
| 22:21.47 | dtidrow_work | ouch |
| 22:21.54 | ``Erik | black on black, smoke, dark, vodka... bad mojo |
| 22:22.07 | dtidrow_work | yep |
| 22:22.17 | ``Erik | came down on my ankle and butt, was hobbling out, coulnd't move it the next morning |
| 22:22.35 | ``Erik | when I got a 5am call to fix a diskless cluster |
| 22:22.37 | dtidrow_work | was awfully expensive this year - $7 for a Sam Adams |
| 22:22.46 | ``Erik | ew |
| 22:22.47 | dtidrow_work | that's one bottle |
| 22:22.59 | ``Erik | hah, go down the street and buy a 6 for less, hah |
| 22:23.13 | dtidrow_work | I can get a six-pack of them for $7.50 |
| 22:23.41 | ``Erik | huh, I've seen sam cheaper |
| 22:23.43 | dtidrow_work | was sorely tempted to go on the brewery tour, as the brewery was only about 5-6 miles away from my hotel |
| 22:24.02 | ``Erik | heh |
| 22:24.08 | ``Erik | this year? |
| 22:24.12 | dtidrow_work | yep |
| 22:24.18 | dtidrow_work | Boston |
| 22:24.30 | ``Erik | I wanted to go, but there was a clamp put down on all travel that I couldn't squirm out from under |
| 22:24.36 | dtidrow_work | ick |
| 22:24.36 | ``Erik | so I had to call in, cancel my hotel reservation, etc |
| 22:24.42 | ``Erik | sucked |
| 22:24.50 | dtidrow_work | indeed |
| 22:25.06 | ``Erik | now they're trying to send me to utah for some realtime raytracing convention |
| 22:25.44 | dtidrow_work | there were several papers about that this year, or maybe courses |
| 22:26.17 | ``Erik | there have been for a while |
| 22:26.20 | ``Erik | and all the same players, heh |
| 22:26.27 | ``Erik | slusallek, etc |
| 22:29.20 | dtidrow_work | lol |
| 22:35.18 | dtidrow_work | guess he's totally distracted |
| 22:36.24 | ``Erik | he must have a sexy piece of code keeping him distracted |
| 22:37.05 | dtidrow_work | heh |
| 22:47.52 | CIA-9 | BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/libfb/ (if_X.c if_ogl.c if_wgl.c): avoid debug mode namespace conflicts when multiple interfaces are compiled and HIDDEN becomes /**/) |
| 22:49.09 | brlcad | mm.. sexy code indeed |
| 22:49.52 | brlcad | ``Erik: not the entire week |
| 22:50.10 | brlcad | i'm on a coding roll on many fronts |
| 22:50.22 | ``Erik | ah, I was hoping in your aid in something... I can wait if you'd rather not be arsed with my issues :) |
| 22:50.30 | brlcad | it'll be all over once I go in, so I'm going with the flow |
| 22:51.37 | brlcad | feel free to ask, if it's too complicated I'll defer, but not likely |
| 22:51.37 | ``Erik | (mem leak in my shot routine, I not grokin' something) |
| 22:51.59 | brlcad | set bu_debug to 2 |
| 22:52.39 | brlcad | basic bounds checks, won't catch the leak of course, but it's a start |
| 22:54.28 | ``Erik | that's a lot of info |
| 22:55.48 | ``Erik | nothing about allocations and deallocations, though |
| 23:11.28 | brlcad | hmm.. shouldn't be "a lot" .. note that one flag is for rt_debug, another for bn, and another for bu |
| 23:12.20 | brlcad | i mean, it'll be a lot of messages .. the ones that are provided during bu_malloc/bu_free/etc |
| 23:32.35 | IriX64 | try my_free(char *ptr) {free(ptr);ptr=NULL;} |
| 23:34.40 | IriX64 | or my_free(char *ptr){if(ptr){free(ptr);ptr=NULL}} |
| 23:38.11 | IriX64 | rtshot or show shot ``Erik? |
| 23:41.56 | IriX64 | in rtshot you have two allocs but no free's. kosher? |
| 23:47.36 | IriX64 | sigh my memory leaks constantly, silicon might help ;) |
| 23:49.28 | IriX64 | err my_free(char* ptr){if(ptr){free(ptr);ptr=NULL;return(ptr)}}return; |
| 23:49.44 | IriX64 | been awhile :) |
| 23:50.13 | IriX64 | err my_free(char* ptr){if(ptr){free(ptr);ptr=NULL;return(ptr)}}return(ptr); |
| 23:51.44 | IriX64 | make distclean |
| 23:52.03 | IriX64 | should have auto switching windows... sorry. |
| 00:18.38 | IriX64 | void main(int argc,char* argv){char * ptr; ptr=malloc(something or other); ptr=my_free(ptr); return(0);} |
| 00:23.08 | IriX64 | try it with calloc(x,y) ;) |
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| 08:37.14 | CIA-9 | BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/ (src/mged/tedit.c NEWS TODO): (log message trimmed) |
| 08:37.14 | CIA-9 | BRL-CAD: fairly comprehensive rewrite of tedit() for the ted command that merges the |
| 08:37.14 | CIA-9 | BRL-CAD: windows version in with the unix version in what should be a pretty platform |
| 08:37.14 | CIA-9 | BRL-CAD: independent manner. this version tries a lot harder to find a usable editor |
| 08:37.14 | CIA-9 | BRL-CAD: other than /bin/ed including checking EDITOR even on Windows (there was some bug |
| 08:37.16 | CIA-9 | BRL-CAD: report for this, but can't find it atm). it'll also kick off TextEdit on Mac OS |
| 08:37.18 | CIA-9 | BRL-CAD: X now as well as trying emacs and vi, before falling back on jove as the editor |
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| 15:19.11 | rossberg | brlcad: why do i need libtclcad in brlcad.dll? |
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| 17:59.01 | IriX64 | reboot bbiab. |
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| 21:23.24 | CIA-9 | BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/misc/win32-msvc/brlcad.dsw: |
| 21:23.25 | CIA-9 | BRL-CAD: libtclcad isn't really needed for the library build for most ray-trace purpose |
| 21:23.25 | CIA-9 | BRL-CAD: applications. it'd only be useful if someone wanted to manually compile the |
| 21:23.25 | CIA-9 | BRL-CAD: mged sources and then use this to link against. since that doesn't currently |
| 21:23.25 | CIA-9 | BRL-CAD: seem to be a need, going ahead and reverting/removing it. |
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| 00:26.58 | CIA-9 | BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/HACKING: when making a release, utilize the NEWS file as appropriate as a basis for making release announcements. either way, the announcements almost ALWAYS require tailored customization. |
| 00:29.47 | CIA-9 | BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/TODO: lots of new ideas to do. full precision support, c++ geometry API, geometry voxelizer, geometry/image converter libraries, validation tests confirming various computations. |
| 00:40.13 | CIA-9 | BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/libbu/mread.c: quell warning |
| 00:46.49 | CIA-9 | BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/include/ (dm-tk.h Makefile.am): add initial DM_TK interface header (from Tim Myers) |
| 00:56.59 | CIA-9 | BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/include/fbio.h: initial steps for a Tk interface, if IF_TK is defined |
| 01:01.29 | CIA-9 | BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/libdm/ (dm-tk.c Makefile.am): add initial DM_TK interface (from Tim Myers) |
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| 01:05.12 | CIA-9 | BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/libfb/fb_generic.c: add Tk to the list of known interfaces if IF_TK is defined |
| 01:06.49 | CIA-9 | BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/libfb/ (if_tk.c Makefile.am): add an initial Tk framebuffer interface (implemented by Tim Myers), disabled from the build for now |
| 01:13.34 | IriX64 | while(strstr(string1,"xyz")); do whatever with xyz ;) |
| 01:14.40 | IriX64 | err add a ! in appropriate place ;) |
| 01:14.55 | CIA-9 | BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/liboptical/sh_billboard.c: decouple from libfb, don't bother trying to autosize the image based on the file name -- use the provided size |
| 01:16.09 | CIA-9 | BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/liboptical/Makefile.am: liboptical is once again no longer dependent upon libfb |
| 01:16.22 | IriX64 | pure drivel strstr returns the string found. |
| 01:16.35 | IriX64 | err ptr to the string found. |
| 01:17.23 | CIA-9 | BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/liboptical/sh_plastic.c: PM_Visualize is not used if this is RT_MULTISPECTRAL, protect accordingly so we don't end up with undefined symbols |
| 01:40.52 | CIA-9 | BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/mged/ (dm-tk.c Makefile.am): initial DM_TK mged wrapper interface to libdm's interface (written by Tim Myers) disabled from build for now |
| 02:07.57 | CIA-9 | BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/libdm/dm-X.c: cleanup the lengthy repetition of pub_vars and priv_vars using some local vars pointers, ws too |
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| 05:10.57 | *** topic/#brlcad is http://brlcad.org/ || BRL-CAD is an open source solid modeling software suite || Developers needed! Read the HACKING file for details on getting involved | |
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| 08:35.12 | CIA-9 | BRL-CAD: 03d_rossberg * 10brlcad/src/libbn/libbn.dsp: remove asize.c file -- was refactored into src/libfb/asize.c |
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| 08:42.15 | CIA-9 | BRL-CAD: 03d_rossberg * 10brlcad/ (5 files in 4 dirs): |
| 08:42.15 | CIA-9 | BRL-CAD: remove the obsolete regular expression implementation in src/libsysv, |
| 08:42.16 | CIA-9 | BRL-CAD: using the more up-to-date in src/other/libregex |
| 08:45.49 | CIA-9 | BRL-CAD: 03d_rossberg * 10brlcad/src/libsysv/Makefile.am: remove the deleted regular expression implementation files |
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| 13:51.38 | brlcad | ahh, nice cleanup rossberg |
| 13:52.09 | brlcad | trying to get into a habit of editing the dsp files too.. their format is relatively simple enough to directly edit |
| 14:01.33 | ``Erik | heh |
| 14:18.44 | rossberg | brlcad: yes it is, i do it the same way (this way i keep the english comments) |
| 14:21.00 | rossberg | but it looks like you windows-linefeed trick won't work, i get 0d-0d-0a-0d-0d-0a after checkout on windows |
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| 15:10.43 | ``Erik | nice |
| 15:50.28 | CIA-9 | BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/BUGS: several of the converters (e.g. dxf-g) assume newlines and do not take carriage returns into account |
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| 20:17.08 | IriX64 | CFLAGS='-DTARGET=i586-unix-beos' configure <===== works, will wonders never cease. |
| 20:18.21 | IriX64 | so this is a beos apache-2.0.59 sweet. |
| 20:19.15 | IriX64 | urmf i should probably not have posted that in the BRLCAD channel though :) |
| 20:22.55 | dtidrow_work | heh |
| 20:29.52 | IriX64 | :) |
| 20:30.33 | IriX64 | Celine Dionne, A new Day Has Come albumn, don't leave home without it.:) |
| 20:34.23 | dtidrow_work | you trying to drive the rest of us away? ;-) |
| 20:35.45 | IriX64 | whats your favorite? |
| 20:35.50 | IriX64 | :) |
| 20:36.18 | dtidrow_work | depends on the day |
| 20:42.09 | IriX64 | Tues. |
| 20:43.04 | dtidrow_work | heh |
| 20:43.12 | IriX64 | :) |
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| 23:39.42 | dli | any doc for a total n00b? |
| 23:41.07 | dli | good, I found them on brlcad.org |
| 00:18.03 | brlcad | that's the best place to start |
| 00:18.42 | brlcad | in particular, the intro to mged and the quick reference, followed by principles of effective modeling |
| 00:19.19 | dli | brlcad, thanks |
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| 04:52.34 | IriX64 | so have you adopted my_free yet? |
| 04:59.18 | brlcad | heh |
| 04:59.40 | brlcad | already have it, it's called bu_free() ;) |
| 05:04.31 | IriX64 | i said round, but thanks ;) |
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| 06:32.59 | CIA-9 | BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/configure.ac: xosdefs.h? how about searching for X11/Xosdefs.h instead |
| 06:34.18 | CIA-9 | BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/libdm/ (dm-X.c dm-glx.c dm-ogl.c dm-pex.c dm-tk.c): HAVE_XOSDEFS_H was a conf.h fictional, update to new configure check for HAVE_X11_XOSDEFS_H and clean up header foo some. |
| 06:43.04 | CIA-9 | BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/libdm/dm-X.c: oops .. they are x_vars, not dm_xvars |
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| 08:21.15 | CIA-9 | BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/BUGS: several of the max screen size values were increased or reworked, revisit bug |
| 08:27.01 | CIA-9 | BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/TODO: intel compiler was tested, it's pretty sweet. still need to add the configure detection, though. also most warnings are quelled finally, time to move on to the verbose warnings soon.. |
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| 12:10.08 | brlcad | hmm |
| 12:16.39 | clock_ | brlcad: hi |
| 12:20.10 | ValarQ | hello clock and mr Cad |
| 12:25.07 | brlcad | ciao ciao clock_ ValarQ |
| 12:27.24 | clock_ | brlcad: yesterday we weree waxing down our surfboards with Sex Wax :) |
| 12:54.56 | CIA-9 | BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/mged/ged.c: disable logging for now until it can be tied to OPTIMIZED too |
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| 13:26.59 | CIA-9 | BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/BUGS: fbhelp sends some of the output to stdout and some to stderr |
| 13:28.16 | CIA-9 | BRL-CAD: 03d_rossberg * 10brlcad/misc/win32-msvc/Dll/brlcad.def: expand exported symbols list |
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| 14:30.24 | dli | how do I select prim? |
| 14:31.00 | dli | the Edit menu entry is gray, and the command " draw <obj>" does nothing |
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| 15:14.14 | brlcad | dli: you have to specify what geometry you want it to draw |
| 15:14.49 | brlcad | then when you've drawn/loaded geometry, you can specify a selection for edit or other operation |
| 15:15.30 | brlcad | dli: the n00b docs cover this in one of the first lessons too fwiw ;) |
| 15:16.56 | brlcad | in short .. you can 1) run the geometry browser and use it to display geometry or 2) use tops, get a list of objects, run "e some_object" to display that object, use Edit menu or sed 'some_oject' to edit a primitve |
| 15:17.14 | brlcad | just two of several ways to do that as well |
| 15:21.22 | dli | brlcad, thanks |
| 15:24.36 | dli | brlcad, the 2nd way, in Edit menu, the "Prim Selection" is gray, " sed " gives Error: Unable to do <keyboard solid edit start> from SOL EDIT state. |
| 15:30.59 | brlcad | dli: oh, it sounds like you're already in solid edit mode on some object? is there a reject/apply/accept option? |
| 15:32.11 | dli | brlcad, got it, after rejection, it works now |
| 15:32.34 | brlcad | yeah, helps to not be in edit mode ;) |
| 15:32.46 | brlcad | hooray for modality errors |
| 15:33.57 | dli | brlcad, can I get 2D drawing finally? the classical ones, with dimensions |
| 15:34.31 | dli | brlcad, I can see there are Front/Top/Side views, but I don't see a way to get dimensions on them |
| 15:36.20 | ``Erik | heh, 'draft' mode seems to be getting a lot of requests o.O :) |
| 15:36.25 | clock_ | dli: no support yet |
| 15:37.09 | dli | clock_, then, I have to work with bugs of qcad |
| 15:49.04 | clock_ | dli: I have to work with bugs of qcad too |
| 15:49.14 | clock_ | dli: especially the one that it cannot be compiled on OpenBSD ;-) |
| 15:51.58 | dli | clock_, it compiles :( but it has serious font problem, also, dashed ellipse shown as solid lines, it can not trim ellipse arc |
| 15:53.19 | clock_ | dli: how did you compile it? |
| 15:53.23 | clock_ | What version are you using? |
| 15:54.04 | dli | clock_, 2.0.4.0-r1 in gentoo |
| 15:54.15 | clock_ | dli: ah Gentoo I said on OpenBSD |
| 15:54.33 | dli | clock_, I mean it compiles here :( |
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| 16:51.25 | CIA-9 | BRL-CAD: 03erikgreenwald * 10brlcad/src/librt/g_metaball.c: minor clean, and changed some logic in shot to fix a memory leak. |
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| 17:52.26 | brlcad | ahh, ``Erik found it? |
| 17:54.01 | ``Erik | yeah |
| 17:54.26 | ``Erik | some fishy logic had an RT_GET_SEG that never got to a BU_LIST_INSERT |
| 17:56.20 | ``Erik | <-- special |
| 17:58.52 | ``Erik | msot of this morning was getting a fresh debug version on a single proc machine, heh :) |
| 18:05.06 | brlcad | so, compiling on your O2 again,eh? :) |
| 18:06.53 | ``Erik | hah, no, the 1.8ghz fbsd thingie |
| 18:06.55 | ``Erik | my mp3 player |
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| 19:43.33 | ``Erik | 10293 vgr's, not too shabby |
| 19:45.24 | brlcad | not too shabby |
| 19:49.25 | brlcad | that's optimized I hope? |
| 19:49.42 | brlcad | curious how well --disable-runtime-debug improves that score |
| 19:49.46 | ``Erik | um, yeah, but still with debugging |
| 19:50.07 | brlcad | debugging isn't really much but cache coherency related, maybe 1-2% at best |
| 19:50.17 | brlcad | running strip and you have the same |
| 19:50.32 | ``Erik | yeah |
| 19:50.44 | ``Erik | bah, you bastard |
| 19:50.46 | brlcad | --disable-runtime-debug, however, is completely different |
| 19:50.59 | ``Erik | $ sh autogen.sh |
| 19:50.59 | ``Erik | INTERNAL ERROR: dirname/basename inconsistency: autogen.sh != ./autogen.sh |
| 19:51.04 | brlcad | it disabled the plethora of run-time validity checks that just bomb |
| 19:51.09 | brlcad | heh |
| 19:51.52 | brlcad | comment it out |
| 19:52.01 | brlcad | or fix it :) |
| 19:52.21 | ``Erik | meh, I ran it as ./autogen.sh |
| 19:54.47 | brlcad | yep, that's denoted in the BUGS file .. noticed that over a year ago |
| 19:55.19 | brlcad | no biggie, you can run it installed from anywhere and just point RT to the one just compiled |
| 19:55.29 | brlcad | RT=path/to/RT benchmark |
| 19:56.11 | brlcad | or even: RT=path/to/rt make benchmark |
| 19:58.14 | brlcad | interesting.. "dirname autogen.sh" reports "." |
| 19:59.14 | brlcad | heh, sh ./autogen.sh would have worked too |
| 20:04.53 | CIA-9 | BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/autogen.sh: if autogen.sh exists, consider it good enough. otherwise then print error cruftage. |
| 20:09.44 | ``Erik | 11555 vgr's |
| 20:10.44 | ``Erik | like 12.2% gain |
| 20:13.17 | *** join/#brlcad clock_ (i=clock@84-72-61-250.dclient.hispeed.ch) | |
| 20:22.56 | dtidrow_work | 11555 - nice :-) |
| 20:27.30 | dtidrow_work | best I've gotten on this box is 2335 |
| 20:29.35 | brlcad | dtidrow_work: did you try --disable-runtime-deubg ? |
| 20:30.43 | dtidrow_work | nope, wasn't aware of it |
| 20:30.50 | dtidrow_work | just did 'make benchmark' |
| 20:31.24 | dtidrow_work | '--disable-runtime-deubg' - is that a configure option? |
| 20:48.03 | brlcad | ahhh |
| 20:48.15 | brlcad | yes, it's a configure option |
| 20:48.28 | CIA-9 | BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/configure.ac: check for the sys/prctl.h header .. it declares sproc() |
| 20:48.30 | brlcad | helps to not repeat my typo too :) .. "debug" |
| 20:49.04 | brlcad | ./configure --enable-optimized --disable-debug --disable-runtime-debug should give a fairly optimal run-time result |
| 20:49.47 | dtidrow_work | heh - back in 40min then ;-) |
| 20:51.13 | brlcad | after a make clean of course to clear out the proevious build |
| 20:51.25 | dtidrow_work | yep - compiling now |
| 20:51.32 | brlcad | that should pretty much double your performance unless the previous was already --enable-optimized |
| 20:51.46 | dtidrow_work | which it was |
| 20:52.02 | dtidrow_work | that boosted it from ~1700 to 2335 |
| 20:52.04 | brlcad | so then you might get anywhere from 10-30% from disabling run-time debug |
| 20:52.18 | brlcad | surprisingly low boost actually |
| 20:52.37 | dtidrow_work | this is a 4-year-old box :-\ |
| 20:52.41 | brlcad | commodity platform? |
| 20:52.53 | dtidrow_work | Dell 670 from '02 |
| 20:53.04 | dtidrow_work | 530, rather |
| 20:53.19 | brlcad | implies either the compiler is doing a pretty good job optimizing at -O0 or is doing a horrible job at -O3 |
| 20:53.22 | dtidrow_work | dual 2GHz Xeons with HT turned on |
| 20:53.47 | brlcad | or a little bit of both probably more likely |
| 20:53.48 | dtidrow_work | running FC4 |
| 20:54.25 | dtidrow_work | gcc 4.0.2 |
| 20:55.24 | ``Erik | <PROTECTED> |
| 21:14.53 | dtidrow_work | brlcad: getting an error in the compilation, though it seems weird |
| 21:14.57 | dtidrow_work | make[1]: Entering directory `/home/dtidrow/src/brlcad-7.8.2/pix' |
| 21:14.57 | dtidrow_work | make[1]: *** No rule to make target `bldg391.pix', needed by `all-am'. Stop. |
| 21:14.57 | dtidrow_work | make[1]: Leaving directory `/home/dtidrow/src/brlcad-7.8.2/pix' |
| 21:15.16 | dtidrow_work | why would it be making stuff in the 'pix' dir? |
| 21:19.10 | brlcad | hrm, that is odd |
| 21:19.52 | brlcad | sounds like file(s) have been deleted |
| 21:20.07 | dtidrow_work | yeah, something got screwed |
| 21:20.10 | brlcad | ooh |
| 21:20.25 | brlcad | you said you did make benchmark? |
| 21:20.29 | dtidrow_work | yeah |
| 21:20.43 | brlcad | did you also run configure with --enable-only-benchmark? |
| 21:20.49 | dtidrow_work | nope |
| 21:20.52 | brlcad | hrmph |
| 21:21.06 | brlcad | is that pix file in the pix/ dir? |
| 21:21.24 | dtidrow_work | don't see it there |
| 21:21.37 | dtidrow_work | wait a minute, let me check again |
| 21:22.16 | dtidrow_work | there's a "bldg391.pix.22980" |
| 21:22.41 | brlcad | ahh, sounds like you maybe deleted the reference images at some point |
| 21:22.44 | dtidrow_work | looks like a process-id added onto the end, like from a previous benchmark run |
| 21:22.52 | dtidrow_work | hmmm |
| 21:23.09 | dtidrow_work | maybe I should just nuke the whole thing and start fresh from the tarball |
| 21:23.20 | brlcad | when you run benchmark, it dumps out a lot of pix files, backing up existing as .PID files |
| 21:24.29 | brlcad | yeah, starting fresh is probably best |
| 21:25.11 | dtidrow_work | easy enough |
| 21:27.32 | *** join/#brlcad IriX64 (n=Who@toronto-HSE-ppp4303658.sympatico.ca) | |
| 21:28.05 | CIA-9 | BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/canon/canon.h: use the newly added HAVE_SYS_PRCTL_H so we can check whether PR_SALL and PR_SFDS are provided by the sproc interface for working with dslib. |
| 21:31.10 | CIA-9 | BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/canon/ (canonlib.c ipuscan.c ipustat.c pix-ipu.c png-ipu.c): header cleanup |
| 21:31.23 | brlcad | dtidrow_work: do you happen to have any experience with mosix? |
| 21:31.39 | dtidrow_work | nope, what is it? |
| 21:31.54 | brlcad | it's a cluster operating system |
| 21:32.16 | brlcad | provides virtual shared memory, automatic process migration among nodes, load balancing, etc |
| 21:32.18 | dtidrow_work | ah, that's why it sounds vaguely familiar |
| 21:32.35 | IriX64 | obviously not a vax cluster. :) |
| 21:32.38 | brlcad | SMP style, not the distributed independent MPI/PVM style |
| 21:34.19 | IriX64 | Qnix? |
| 21:34.23 | IriX64 | :) |
| 21:34.45 | IriX64 | your comeback should be *nix ;) |
| 21:44.01 | IriX64 | would pay for a screen shot of your system brlcad, if thats what you're running. |
| 21:52.20 | CIA-9 | BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/librt/tree.c: quell 64bit warning |
| 21:56.07 | dtidrow_work | I'd love to see what the benchmark on this monster comes out as: http://www.boxxtech.com/products/apexx8.asp |
| 21:58.16 | brlcad | ooh, sweet hardware |
| 21:58.59 | dtidrow_work | indeed :-) |
| 21:59.17 | dtidrow_work | think they had a demo system of that @SIGGRAPH |
| 21:59.18 | brlcad | I'd bet/hope something on the order of 30k vgr if not better |
| 21:59.33 | dtidrow_work | I never did get a good look in that booth |
| 21:59.35 | brlcad | rough quote? |
| 21:59.50 | dtidrow_work | guessing around $30k |
| 22:01.16 | dtidrow_work | k, the latest bench run came out at 2556 |
| 22:01.42 | brlcad | hm, so about 10% too |
| 22:01.55 | dtidrow_work | something like that |
| 22:02.13 | dtidrow_work | I just need a new box ;-) |
| 22:02.34 | dtidrow_work | the rambus memory probably isn't helping, either |
| 22:03.00 | brlcad | seems reasonable.. the higher end 30% numbers are mostly on much older hardware, especially systems like irix 5 that can get branch predictions wrong a lot |
| 22:04.03 | brlcad | nice to see almost every test more than a million rays/sec :) |
| 22:04.04 | dtidrow_work | which altix system? |
| 22:04.11 | brlcad | it's a 12 node |
| 22:04.19 | dtidrow_work | nice |
| 22:04.29 | brlcad | 1.4 |
| 22:04.40 | dtidrow_work | too bad it's from S_I |
| 22:11.00 | brlcad | 13574 vgr |
| 22:13.26 | ``Erik | that the 12 or the 16? |
| 22:13.58 | brlcad | the 12 |
| 22:14.17 | ``Erik | 1131 vgr's per core, opposed to the amd64's 2889 vgrs per core :) |
| 22:14.25 | brlcad | yup |
| 22:14.29 | ``Erik | *stomp* hehehe |
| 22:14.46 | brlcad | considerably more spensive too.. though way better on I/O |
| 22:14.56 | ``Erik | *nod* |
| 22:15.21 | ``Erik | if the amd had the same class of disk, it'd be smokin' too, though |
| 22:17.46 | brlcad | not just disk, their cray interconnect stuff is just nice |
| 22:18.06 | brlcad | i think that more than anything is what gets the compile down so fast |
| 22:18.56 | brlcad | mind you that vgr is also on a machine that is probably about 3-4 years old, cluster is at least 6-12 months newer |
| 22:19.30 | brlcad | i mean, the new macbooks are almost 5k .. |
| 22:20.21 | brlcad | that puts one single xserve in the ballpark of that altix |
| 22:20.31 | brlcad | and the cluster |
| 22:21.46 | brlcad | that boxx apex system is sweet though.. if the specs match up, that really could be as much as 20-30k vgrs |
| 22:22.11 | IriX64 | you people are spoled rotten :) |
| 22:22.24 | IriX64 | spoiled too. |
| 22:22.35 | dtidrow_work | what's the new 'vgr'? |
| 22:22.47 | brlcad | though at $30k, you'd get more bang per buck with 8 xserves.. should be about 80k vgrs |
| 22:22.47 | dtidrow_work | is that the altix? |
| 22:23.12 | dtidrow_work | that $30k was just a guess |
| 22:23.13 | brlcad | no no.. vgr baseline is unchanged |
| 22:23.16 | IriX64 | reguts.c line 58 NDEBUG redefined guys. |
| 22:23.29 | dtidrow_work | still the ancient VAX? |
| 22:23.42 | brlcad | IriX64: there is no reguts.c |
| 22:23.50 | IriX64 | eh? |
| 22:24.05 | IriX64 | my mistake :( |
| 22:24.18 | IriX64 | must be mine. |
| 22:24.27 | IriX64 | it is. |
| 22:24.36 | brlcad | dtidrow_work: the physical hardware for VGR was decommissioned about 5 years ago iirc, but we still have the performance metrics |
| 22:24.57 | dtidrow_work | that's what I thought |
| 22:25.06 | brlcad | i've been looking at using vax running in simh to keep it maintainable indefinitely |
| 22:25.39 | brlcad | i set up the vax in there and got netbsd installed with not too much hassle, few source edits, some kernel trickery to get data in the machine |
| 22:25.41 | dtidrow_work | Chris Johnson was messing around with that at one time |
| 22:25.54 | brlcad | yeah, we were talking about that a year or two ago |
| 22:26.42 | brlcad | wouldn't take too much work (one would imagine) to throttle simh so that it consistently computes an exact 1.0 vgr |
| 22:26.49 | IriX64 | regguts.h sorry. |
| 22:27.02 | ``Erik | heh |
| 22:27.08 | brlcad | IriX64: that's tcl, not our code |
| 22:27.33 | brlcad | any warnings in src/other are "not our problem" |
| 22:27.42 | IriX64 | never mind its legit i disable debug and symbols. |
| 22:27.47 | ``Erik | but netbsd instead of bsd4.3? you're not afraid of library differences or kernel differences skewing things? :) |
| 22:27.48 | brlcad | I only care fix code in there if it fails |
| 22:27.50 | IriX64 | disabled too. |
| 22:28.05 | ``Erik | or are you gonna try to redefine the vgr o.O |
| 22:28.15 | brlcad | you have a copy of 4.3 lying around? :) |
| 22:28.23 | ``Erik | I bet kermit has the tapes |
| 22:28.24 | brlcad | i would have gone for anything |
| 22:28.30 | brlcad | but open crapped on it |
| 22:28.38 | brlcad | and wasn't even going to attempt free |
| 22:28.48 | ``Erik | old fbsd might've |
| 22:28.50 | brlcad | net was seamless |
| 22:29.19 | ``Erik | be interesting seeing how many vgr's a vgr class machine gets with a different(ish) os |
| 22:29.23 | dtidrow_work | http://www.creativemac.com/articles/viewarticle.jsp?id=39966 - says that a maxed one would be around $80k |
| 22:29.23 | brlcad | yeah, maybe old, but net was clean and very simple |
| 22:29.31 | brlcad | eek |
| 22:29.58 | dtidrow_work | likely fully loaded with memory and disks |
| 22:30.26 | dtidrow_work | which means 128GB RAM and 7-10TB of disk |
| 22:30.26 | brlcad | that's like 16 xserves loaded .. different architecture of course, but if the vgr count was primae fascia importance.. |
| 22:30.40 | dtidrow_work | and one system image |
| 22:30.41 | brlcad | makes for a beautiful deskside SMP station, though, gotta admit |
| 22:31.11 | dtidrow_work | the new BFM9000 ;-) |
| 22:31.25 | brlcad | pretty much :) |
| 22:32.05 | dtidrow_work | brlcad: when did you start up there at ARL? |
| 22:32.11 | brlcad | if I had the new cad website up with the benchmark database.. I'd certainly be working on getting simh going with some stable setup |
| 22:32.28 | brlcad | dtidrow_work: about 7 years ago |
| 22:32.30 | brlcad | thereabouts |
| 22:32.38 | dtidrow_work | did you ever make it down to NVL? |
| 22:32.44 | brlcad | NO! |
| 22:32.47 | brlcad | i wish i had |
| 22:32.48 | dtidrow_work | heh |
| 22:33.33 | brlcad | that's a connection that unfortunately was lost with the loss oD[D[D[D[D[D[D[D[D[Df m.m. |
| 22:33.43 | brlcad | er, that was wierd |
| 22:34.11 | dtidrow_work | glitch in the matrix? ;-) |
| 22:34.20 | brlcad | i think so |
| 22:34.35 | dtidrow_work | lol |
| 22:34.39 | ``Erik | mr anderson... |
| 22:35.14 | brlcad | so.. ``Erik .. the freebsd ports thing |
| 22:35.29 | ``Erik | um, hrm? |
| 22:35.41 | brlcad | assuming it's all worky worky now for using a system tcl/tk |
| 22:35.49 | ``Erik | no |
| 22:36.01 | brlcad | i'm playing with the idea of having multiple independent projects |
| 22:36.14 | ``Erik | when it starts up, it look for tcl paths and only gets the brlcad/crap path, since it only search for one path |
| 22:36.23 | ``Erik | or, it did last I looked |
| 22:36.31 | brlcad | yeah, I mean aside from that.. still have to fix that ;) |
| 22:36.53 | ``Erik | well, asking it to use the system tcl and tk si trivial, I've tried it a few times |
| 22:36.59 | ``Erik | but until that is fixed, it's unusable |
| 22:37.17 | brlcad | how much work you think it'll be to support having multiple ports packages as well as the main kitchen sink one? |
| 22:37.24 | ``Erik | uh |
| 22:37.29 | ``Erik | why would it be multiple ports packages? |
| 22:37.44 | brlcad | 18:36 <@brlcad> i'm playing with the idea of having multiple independent projects |
| 22:37.57 | ``Erik | ah, heh |
| 22:37.57 | brlcad | so that if I only wanted some piece.. i could install just that |
| 22:37.59 | ``Erik | well |
| 22:38.01 | brlcad | e.g. libpkg |
| 22:38.06 | brlcad | or the raytrace library |
| 22:38.10 | brlcad | or just mged |
| 22:38.13 | brlcad | or just the converters, etc |
| 22:38.27 | ``Erik | um, if it's broken into like 30 projects, that would be difficult to get flying with the comitters and core |
| 22:38.28 | brlcad | (see doc/PROJECTS for what'd probably be the list) |
| 22:38.39 | brlcad | more like 10 |
| 22:39.01 | brlcad | howso? I've seen other ports that are broken up that way |
| 22:39.10 | ``Erik | into 2 or 3 |
| 22:39.13 | brlcad | especially the big ones, gtk is a prime example |
| 22:39.15 | ``Erik | ... |
| 22:39.27 | ``Erik | heh, gtk is broken into gtk and glib |
| 22:39.29 | ``Erik | ... |
| 22:39.43 | ``Erik | and lots of other programs started using glib without gdk and gtk, so it was broken up |
| 22:39.55 | brlcad | it works, though |
| 22:40.06 | brlcad | there are several projects in brl-cad that really stand on their own |
| 22:40.23 | brlcad | some are already in ports as a separate project even :) (ttcp) |
| 22:40.53 | ``Erik | yeah, ttcp, jove, ... |
| 22:41.14 | ``Erik | if you do it, I could try to create a bunch of ports and see if they fly |
| 22:41.31 | brlcad | we don't "own" jove, but we technically do ttcp even if there are "patched versions" out there now that have more features |
| 22:41.45 | ``Erik | heh |
| 22:41.50 | ``Erik | about as much as we own ping... |
| 22:41.57 | brlcad | i'm just wondering how much trouble it'd be |
| 22:42.06 | brlcad | nah, ttcp hasn't changed nearly as much as ping has ;) |
| 22:42.23 | ``Erik | a day or so of work to get the ports built and stuff, then antoher week or so to get 'em reviewed and committed, I'd imagine |
| 22:42.30 | ``Erik | ping is a little more used than ttcp |
| 22:42.32 | brlcad | i looked into bringing in his original ping source as a utility |
| 22:43.06 | brlcad | would have too, cept he initially wrote the sockets using privileged socket options |
| 22:43.12 | brlcad | so you have to run it as root :) |
| 22:43.33 | ``Erik | heh |
| 22:44.03 | brlcad | was tempting, though.. I could actually use that in the new modeler as a plugin had it not |
| 22:47.00 | IriX64 | heh ;) |
| 22:48.16 | IriX64 | #ifdef #ifndef whats an n more or less :) |
| 22:54.38 | IriX64 | while((ptr=strchr(string,'\0x0d')));ptr+1=0x00; |
| 22:54.48 | IriX64 | whats wrong with that? |
| 22:55.28 | brlcad | heh, this is right up your alley ``Erik: http://www.hermann-uwe.de/files/images/programmer_hierarchy.png |
| 22:57.21 | IriX64 | brlcad:should rename to required education for any programmer. :) |
| 22:57.58 | IriX64 | ahrrrgggghhhh *ptr+1 |
| 22:58.15 | IriX64 | *(ptr+1) |
| 23:00.13 | brlcad | hm .. depends entirely on the intent, no? :) |
| 23:00.22 | IriX64 | yah. :) |
| 23:00.55 | IriX64 | intent is to null terminated a bunch of non nullterminated strings. |
| 23:01.14 | IriX64 | but the do have 0d oa in them. |
| 23:01.21 | IriX64 | 0a too |
| 23:02.25 | *** join/#brlcad Twingy (n=justin@c-69-250-236-111.hsd1.md.comcast.net) | |
| 23:12.44 | b0ef | brlcad: it's really great to break up the project like that;) |
| 23:14.26 | Twingy | Smoking is bad for your lungs. |
| 23:14.49 | b0ef | , but it sure is good |
| 23:16.20 | Twingy | it's a waste of time |
| 23:16.33 | IriX64 | thats why i do it ;) |
| 23:16.52 | Twingy | are you religious? |
| 23:16.57 | b0ef | Twingy: so you claim |
| 23:17.04 | IriX64 | yes the one true religion. |
| 23:17.08 | brlcad | beer? |
| 23:17.16 | IriX64 | beleiving. |
| 23:17.33 | IriX64 | catholicism the rest just ways of beiliving. |
| 23:17.50 | brlcad | i've seen it, even tasted |
| 23:17.52 | IriX64 | thats a cult :) |
| 23:19.03 | IriX64 | twingy is suppsed to do cpr. |
| 23:19.09 | IriX64 | supposed too. |
| 23:19.19 | brlcad | i don't think that'd be a good idea :) |
| 23:19.34 | IriX64 | leave me dead would you ? |
| 23:19.40 | IriX64 | medi |
| 23:19.44 | IriX64 | medic too. |
| 23:21.12 | IriX64 | better a hippie than a yuppie don't you think? |
| 23:22.09 | brlcad | hey Twingy.. you know of a good means to compute an OBB that's aligned with the view frustum? |
| 23:22.25 | brlcad | (of implicit prims, not just polys) |
| 23:22.33 | Twingy | isn't that an oxymoron? |
| 23:22.56 | brlcad | er, not afaik |
| 23:23.09 | Twingy | is the OBB AA? |
| 23:23.27 | brlcad | it'd be an aabb if I consider the view frustum as creating some global coordinate system i suppose |
| 23:24.03 | brlcad | but even then.. i have that transformation, and not clear how to make a nice tight fitting bb |
| 23:24.29 | brlcad | end result that I'm trying to get is a rect on pixel image where an object possibly intersects |
| 23:24.31 | Twingy | you have an arbitrary view and a frustum that goes with it |
| 23:25.02 | IriX64 | do pixel math :) |
| 23:25.04 | brlcad | s/intersects/exists or is otherwise going to get rendered for some rays) |
| 23:25.40 | Twingy | what is the OBB encapsulating? |
| 23:26.36 | brlcad | i got a torus being looked at 35 25 or something, going to render 512x512.. want to know which ray-pixels are definitely NOT possibly intersecting the torus |
| 23:26.54 | brlcad | idea was to create an obb aligned with the view to get that box |
| 23:27.22 | Twingy | a scene graph would be able to tell you that with the same amount of instructions as your proposed algorithm would |
| 23:28.09 | Twingy | but given how coupled everything is to BSP's... |
| 23:28.32 | brlcad | okay, but even the scene graph would be testing rays against planes or aabbs or obb's or some other bvh |
| 23:29.00 | Twingy | they would be, but the number of instructions is like in the tens, just ask alexis |
| 23:29.01 | brlcad | i don't really want to test rays (yet) |
| 23:29.43 | Twingy | the cross products alone will eat up that many instructions |
| 23:30.15 | brlcad | still.. you say walk the scene graph which is all good.. but a scene graph of what? just a bsp? |
| 23:30.37 | IriX64 | Twingy: not if you encapsulate the algorithm in a repetitive loop with a way out. |
| 23:30.50 | Twingy | a graph of nodes with pointers to neighbors like alexis has, I'm not sure how detailed I can get without his permission though |
| 23:31.11 | Twingy | it becomes a breshenham stepping problem |
| 23:31.21 | brlcad | so he's using aabbs basically |
| 23:31.26 | Twingy | yes, exactly |
| 23:31.31 | brlcad | or at least you're suggesting using aabbs |
| 23:31.31 | Twingy | but not a tree |
| 23:31.49 | Twingy | yea, if aabb's get used as a tree like I did in adrt then it's already non-optimal |
| 23:31.49 | brlcad | sure |
| 23:32.16 | brlcad | basically a variant of grid traversal |
| 23:32.21 | Twingy | exactly |
| 23:32.29 | brlcad | ingo actually talked a fair bit about his work on that this past year.. |
| 23:32.31 | Twingy | but not in any research papers |
| 23:32.36 | Twingy | atleast as of yet afaik |
| 23:32.49 | Twingy | ah, so he's catching up to alexis's work then :) |
| 23:32.54 | brlcad | perhaps |
| 23:33.09 | brlcad | you'll have to take a look at the course video |
| 23:33.36 | Twingy | ok, but getting back to reality |
| 23:33.42 | brlcad | still wasn't close to russian dude's first-hit tracer |
| 23:33.46 | Twingy | implementing a scene graph is not practical right now |
| 23:33.59 | Twingy | reschetov's is clever, but still not entirely optimal |
| 23:33.59 | brlcad | but then nobody is still |
| 23:34.35 | brlcad | not practical, howso? |
| 23:34.45 | Twingy | I think he's trying to use kd-tree's in ways that no longer make them kd-tree's... |
| 23:35.14 | Twingy | it's not a textbook tree if you have leaf nodes pointing to other leaf nodes |
| 23:35.44 | brlcad | it's just an inbred tree ;) |
| 23:35.45 | Twingy | it's closer to a scene graph than anything |
| 23:36.05 | Twingy | I think reschetov will be the first to call it a scene graph |
| 23:36.19 | Twingy | but ingo might too, anybody's guess |
| 23:36.58 | Twingy | so back to the torus |
| 23:37.15 | brlcad | getting back to my problem, though.. at least one of my many problems.. say I wanted to draw a box, light up the pixels, around some rendered object |
| 23:37.24 | Twingy | you're doing 2 matrix multiplies right now I take it? |
| 23:37.51 | Twingy | what if you steal some rasterization codes |
| 23:37.59 | brlcad | right now, nothing.. i'm trying to sort out what I need to implement |
| 23:38.02 | Twingy | reasterize the torus |
| 23:38.05 | Twingy | *rasterize |
| 23:38.14 | brlcad | that's the trick though, without rendering the box contents |
| 23:38.23 | brlcad | otherwise it's just trivial pixel walking |
| 23:38.25 | Twingy | but rasterization is cheap |
| 23:38.52 | Twingy | ok, don't rasterize |
| 23:38.54 | brlcad | not in this particular usage.. i just want to know a basic projection box around the object |
| 23:38.59 | Twingy | nod |
| 23:39.21 | brlcad | i can take the bounding sphere and quickly compute a bounding box around that.. but that's rarely going to be tight fitting |
| 23:40.11 | Twingy | so are you going to do ray/box testing? |
| 23:40.27 | brlcad | i was hoping to avoid any ray testing, but if necessary sure |
| 23:40.40 | dtidrow_work | brlcad: what are you trying to do again? |
| 23:40.42 | brlcad | it seems just conceptually that I should be able to compute that box |
| 23:40.48 | brlcad | directly |
| 23:41.28 | brlcad | dtidrow_work: determine a bounding square on a rendered image around some given object in 3-space |
| 23:41.33 | Twingy | that box is already a function in each primitive |
| 23:41.51 | brlcad | so if I rendered a tank, for example, this would be the tightest fitting square outline in the image if I were to crop the image |
| 23:42.05 | brlcad | the box is aligned to global coordinates in each prim |
| 23:42.10 | brlcad | not the view |
| 23:42.25 | brlcad | I could do the same projection like for the sphere, but that'll also not be tight fitting |
| 23:42.42 | Twingy | is this just to speed up rendering images with empty pixels or in general, like in a forest |
| 23:43.00 | brlcad | which is why I was thinking of how to compute an obb directly on some given prim, and provide an orientation that was aligned with the view |
| 23:43.39 | brlcad | neither and both really.. it's for an idea I have for fast csg evaluation |
| 23:43.46 | Twingy | that box is a function of the projection matrix AND modelview matrix |
| 23:44.09 | Twingy | if we're talking opengl lingo |
| 23:44.27 | brlcad | it's an idea that would effectively make boolweave and the bsp traversal go away in librt potentially |
| 23:44.44 | brlcad | or at least get computed in a radically different manner |
| 23:45.30 | Twingy | is the box you're getting aligned with the view? horizontal and vertical lines |
| 23:45.31 | brlcad | yeah, it is .. so how do I go from those two matrices to that projection? |
| 23:45.42 | brlcad | yeah, purely horizontal and vertical |
| 23:46.01 | Twingy | oh, I know |
| 23:46.05 | brlcad | basically I want to categorize pixels bunches sort of into the postage stamp sections |
| 23:46.21 | Twingy | the mesa source code has the GLU Project utility |
| 23:46.22 | brlcad | where know this square of pixels needs to be tested |
| 23:46.44 | Twingy | take the 8 projected points of the box, min max them |
| 23:46.45 | Twingy | done |
| 23:46.46 | brlcad | against some primitive |
| 23:46.58 | Twingy | you already have a bounding box for the primitive |
| 23:47.13 | brlcad | that's what i meant though.. that's projecting the aabb onto the view |
| 23:47.16 | brlcad | it's not tight fitting |
| 23:47.18 | Twingy | so you project the 8 points (might be an optimization in there to do less) and grab the min max |
| 23:47.40 | Twingy | oh, the aabb |
| 23:47.47 | Twingy | well, you could always add a new type of box |
| 23:48.00 | Twingy | that is the aabb * transformation matrix |
| 23:48.14 | Twingy | err some function of that |
| 23:48.20 | Twingy | 6 floats... |
| 23:48.28 | brlcad | which would be a function that effectively computes an obb :) |
| 23:48.46 | brlcad | which i don't see how to directly evaluate on a given implicit :) |
| 23:48.50 | Twingy | yea, but I just listed the puzzle pieces |
| 23:48.57 | Twingy | well the code will simplify |
| 23:49.35 | Twingy | I know that with the projection code from mesa, transformation matrix for the primitive, and perhaps an extra 6 floats in each primitive I could hash something out then optimize it |
| 23:49.42 | Twingy | atleast that is what my approach would be |
| 23:49.53 | brlcad | hm |
| 23:50.02 | brlcad | i'll take a look there then |
| 23:50.24 | Twingy | I ripped the mesa projection code and put it in nurbana for selecting control points on a mesh |
| 23:50.42 | Twingy | the code documents are in french I think |
| 23:50.50 | Twingy | but it's easy to follow |
| 23:51.03 | brlcad | heh |
| 23:52.52 | Twingy | http://js.cx/~justin/ProjectUtility.cpp |
| 23:53.50 | Twingy | you want UnProject |
| 23:54.17 | Twingy | all the way at the bottom |
| 23:55.48 | Twingy | the trick will be finding the optimizations after you merge it into the other code to project the 8 pts |
| 23:56.13 | Twingy | my gut feeling is you can simplify alot of that cruft |
| 23:56.18 | brlcad | hm |
| 23:56.39 | Twingy | output of UnProject is x,y screen coordinate |
| 23:56.44 | brlcad | i think i follow, but still don't have a good way to determine those 8 points |
| 23:56.57 | brlcad | in model space |
| 23:57.04 | Twingy | before the primitive gets a transformation applied to it |
| 23:57.15 | Twingy | it's AABB is tight fitting no? |
| 23:57.25 | brlcad | yeah, should be |
| 23:57.27 | brlcad | ahhh |
| 23:57.35 | brlcad | so it's rotating |
| 23:57.37 | Twingy | k, stargate time |
| 23:58.11 | brlcad | calculating the box using the aabb, then unprojecting those points back up through the modelview and projection matrix |
| 23:58.14 | brlcad | coolness |
| 23:58.20 | brlcad | thanks, that might just work! :) |
| 23:58.44 | brlcad | mm.. stargate.. yay for dvr.. but time to go home :) |
| 00:13.27 | ``Erik | erm, sg ain't till 9, no? |
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| 01:14.52 | brlcad | yep |
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| 02:13.08 | CIA-9 | BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/TODO: display the current mode in mged graphics window |
| 02:14.49 | IriX64 | www.brlcad.org. check it out. |
| 02:15.11 | IriX64 | ftp.brlcad.org. |
| 02:15.21 | IriX64 | yours? |
| 02:28.34 | IriX64 | raytrace control panel->advanced settings->light model->photon mapping done, yea. |
| 02:29.01 | IriX64 | i'll see your ray and raise you a photon :) |
| 02:29.22 | brlcad | yes, they're still in the incoming bin |
| 02:29.49 | IriX64 | hrmmph no interest in my work eh? :) |
| 02:30.36 | brlcad | busy trying to implement new features and get this iteration's release out, 7.8.4 |
| 02:30.45 | IriX64 | cool. |
| 02:31.16 | IriX64 | photon mapping = instead of shooting a line you shoot pixel by pixel. |
| 02:31.54 | brlcad | not exactly |
| 02:32.03 | IriX64 | err i erred:) |
| 02:32.09 | IriX64 | ? |
| 02:32.42 | IriX64 | oh i see never mind. |
| 02:32.46 | IriX64 | :) |
| 02:32.47 | brlcad | instead of just simulating a light ray bouncing around a scene, you add the simulation of photons being emitted from the light source(s) and they're deposited throughout the scene |
| 02:33.21 | brlcad | the rays being shot then pick up the photons, which gives a relatively cheap form of global illumination |
| 02:33.58 | IriX64 | but if you illuminate the pixels with shades of light its more accurate my way. |
| 02:35.21 | IriX64 | in other words hit the same pixel three different times with varying intensities of light. |
| 02:35.44 | IriX64 | simulating global illumination instead of scen illumination. |
| 02:35.54 | IriX64 | scene too :) |
| 02:36.22 | IriX64 | ermf pixels is the wrong reference. |
| 02:36.35 | IriX64 | dot is more accurate or point. |
| 02:37.39 | IriX64 | must see a man about a recurring plumbing problem be right back ;) |
| 02:40.12 | IriX64 | homo sapiens = poor desig, leaks everywhere :) |
| 02:40.18 | IriX64 | design too. |
| 03:32.48 | IriX64 | cleverly programmed into each full compile, is a loooooooong coffee break, ill be back in 60. |
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| 03:50.47 | IriX64 | jack-g? jack? jack shit? yeah I know him ;) |
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| 04:47.46 | IriX64 | errrmmmfff "I am Joes spine" :) |
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| 20:12.54 | IriX64 | cheers. |
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| 21:42.15 | IriX64 | if (!BU_CK_MAPPED_FULE(dsp_ip->dsp_mp)) return 0; <=======not familiar with BU* will this work? |
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| 01:37.05 | IriX64 | guess not :( |
| 01:43.55 | IriX64 | some people just like to watch ;) |
| 03:15.43 | brlcad | what do you mean "will this work?" |
| 03:16.25 | brlcad | it does what it's designed to do .. checks to make sure the dsp_mp pointer is a mapped file, though you spell FULE wrong |
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| 19:27.37 | IriX64 | what i meant was does it return a null on success or error? |
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| 22:45.56 | myric | Hello all |
| 22:46.58 | myric | Hey I downloaded the latest source for brlcad but it would not build. |
| 22:47.56 | myric | http://switch.dl.sourceforge.net/sourceforge/brlcad/brlcad-7.8.2.tar.gz |
| 22:48.42 | myric | The file adrt/isst/observer/observer.c references a file splash.h that doesn't exist |
| 22:49.09 | myric | and then the functions that are supposed to be there for showing a splash screen had to be commented out |
| 22:56.24 | dtidrow | which OS are you building on? |
| 23:06.08 | myric | linux |
| 23:06.18 | myric | sorry didn't see your response |
| 23:06.23 | myric | doesn't matter |
| 23:06.59 | myric | #include "splash.h" when there's no "splash.h" breaks a build on any platform |
| 23:18.13 | dtidrow | odd - it compiles fine for me on FC4 |
| 23:19.55 | myric | hmm |
| 23:20.10 | myric | 7.8.0 or 7.8.2? |
| 23:20.16 | dtidrow | 7.8.2 |
| 23:20.42 | myric | can you find a file in your source called splash.h |
| 23:20.44 | myric | ? |
| 23:20.56 | myric | maybe I gat a bad tar |
| 23:20.57 | dtidrow | hang on - that was at my work machine |
| 23:21.02 | myric | oh sorry |
| 23:21.12 | dtidrow | np - just have to log into it |
| 23:22.06 | CIA-9 | BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/mged/ged.c: refix the command-line history bug that was inadvertently undone by the mac delete key patch |
| 23:22.19 | myric | I'm running ubunto 6.06 on this pc btw |
| 23:22.30 | dtidrow | nope, no splash.h there |
| 23:22.33 | myric | hmm |
| 23:23.12 | myric | mine either |
| 23:23.24 | myric | and there's a reference to it in adrt/isst/observer/observer.c |
| 23:23.28 | dtidrow | which file is the #include in? |
| 23:23.40 | myric | i had to comment it out to get it to build |
| 23:25.14 | myric | not really a problem since I figured it out. It'll just confuse people trying it for the first time if it happens to them. |
| 23:26.14 | dtidrow | but where is it coming from? |
| 23:26.40 | dtidrow | I wonder if it's a tk thing.... |
| 23:29.16 | CIA-9 | BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/mged/ (ged.c history.c): make the command history pattern arg const |
| 23:31.33 | myric | it was just a build error in a c file |
| 23:31.49 | myric | We must have different files |
| 23:31.57 | myric | somehow |
| 23:32.19 | myric | I don't think tk uses .h files or .c files |
| 23:35.24 | CIA-9 | BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/mged/clone.c: |
| 23:35.24 | CIA-9 | BRL-CAD: one step closer towards v5 database support, make function hooks match |
| 23:35.24 | CIA-9 | BRL-CAD: db_functree interface (last param wasn't genptr_t). fix a memory leak related |
| 23:35.24 | CIA-9 | BRL-CAD: to get_name(). keep track of whether objects are correctly cloned via get_name |
| 23:35.24 | CIA-9 | BRL-CAD: lookups. |
| 23:35.24 | myric | ohhh... |
| 23:36.05 | myric | I did have to do some playing with configure options to get adrt to build at all |
| 23:36.15 | myric | maybe you didn't build adrt? |
| 23:37.41 | brlcad | myric: adrt auto-enables if it finds python and sdl |
| 23:38.11 | brlcad | though it really shouldn't because it's as cross-platform-compiling capable as the rest of the package |
| 23:38.42 | myric | it didn't on mine because it didn't find python |
| 23:39.26 | brlcad | since you have sdl and python, you could conceivably get it to successfully build by fixing the Makefile.am's but it's not really critical |
| 23:39.27 | myric | so I had to give a --with-python=/usr/include/python2.4/ switch |
| 23:39.32 | brlcad | ahh |
| 23:39.41 | brlcad | I'd suggest leaving that off ;) |
| 23:39.44 | myric | I did that too |
| 23:40.18 | myric | I also manually edited the Makefile.am, but I thought that was just me |
| 23:40.30 | myric | since I configured it several times |
| 23:40.33 | brlcad | should --disable-adrt ;) |
| 23:40.41 | myric | what exactly is adrt |
| 23:40.42 | myric | ? |
| 23:40.48 | myric | I could look it up.. |
| 23:40.48 | brlcad | sdl and python aren't required for anything else |
| 23:41.00 | brlcad | adrt is the "advanced distributed ray-tracer" |
| 23:41.07 | myric | ah |
| 23:41.17 | myric | I thought maybe it had something to do with the new archer |
| 23:41.22 | brlcad | it's a very high-performance triangle ray-trace library, path tracer, and ray-tracer |
| 23:42.14 | brlcad | specific to triangle-only models, but very nicely high-performing .. takes some configuration work to make use of it, some not well documented |
| 23:42.24 | brlcad | nothing to do with archer |
| 23:42.27 | myric | ok |
| 23:42.38 | myric | I did get it to build |
| 23:42.53 | myric | It just didn't build out of the box so to speak |
| 23:42.59 | brlcad | archer also hasn't been set up for non-windows platforms yet either fwiw |
| 23:43.04 | myric | and I wanted to let somebody know |
| 23:43.09 | brlcad | it's not supposed to build out of the box yet ;) |
| 23:43.17 | myric | ok then |
| 23:43.43 | myric | I'd like to work on getting archer to work on linux. |
| 23:43.49 | brlcad | it's on the to-do list, just hasn't been a priority |
| 23:43.55 | brlcad | that'd be very cool |
| 23:44.02 | myric | I've got a few hours to poke around tonight |
| 23:44.34 | brlcad | it's run on linux, so it really should just be some pathing/setup issues |
| 23:44.53 | myric | I know it runs on linux because I just build it |
| 23:45.00 | brlcad | mac os x is the only platform that should actually require a little code (to load blt correctly from a dylib) |
| 23:45.25 | myric | maybe I'm misunderstanding what archer is |
| 23:46.05 | brlcad | most of archer doesn't require compilation.. getting it to "build" doesn't take too much :) getting it to fully run correctly, however, is another issue |
| 23:46.06 | myric | Is it supposed to be a new user friendly modeling interface? |
| 23:46.10 | brlcad | yes |
| 23:46.18 | myric | ok so maybe not |
| 23:47.00 | myric | I haven't done much programming in tcl, but I think I could get this to work. |
| 23:47.09 | myric | What is it supposed to look like? |
| 23:47.21 | myric | I get a blank window with a set of axes when i open it |
| 23:47.33 | myric | and four buttons for zooming and rotating |
| 23:47.47 | myric | oh it get the axes when I make a new db |
| 23:48.35 | myric | I commented out the "package require blt" bit because blt commands seem to work fine without it |
| 23:48.50 | myric | it was throwing an error |
| 23:49.03 | brlcad | http://ftp.brlcad.org/images/archer.jpg |
| 23:49.35 | myric | great, so I have something to work toward |
| 23:49.46 | myric | I'm not getting the toolbar |
| 23:50.12 | brlcad | lack of blt is probably why you have no toolbar |
| 23:50.18 | myric | or the prompt, just the viewing window |
| 23:50.23 | myric | hmm |
| 23:50.33 | brlcad | some of the interface items are disabled by default |
| 23:50.41 | brlcad | see the "advanced" mode on the menu |
| 23:50.50 | myric | I tried running a few blt::blahblah commands in bwish and they seem to work fine |
| 23:51.23 | brlcad | may have linked blt static |
| 23:51.34 | myric | ah hah |
| 23:51.38 | myric | I have a toolbar |
| 23:52.19 | brlcad | cool |
| 23:52.37 | brlcad | you may be mostly fully functional already then |
| 23:54.44 | myric | yeah It actually seems to work |
| 23:54.48 | myric | I'll play with it |
| 23:55.52 | myric | I do remember something like "build static: yes" from the configure script |
| 23:58.04 | dtidrow | just got back - figured that the adrt stuff didn't build |
| 23:58.13 | dtidrow | which is why I didn't see any error |
| 00:00.50 | myric | brlcad here was telling me that I don't really need it anyway |
| 00:01.06 | myric | I was trying to get archer to work in linux and wanted to build everything |
| 00:01.15 | dtidrow | yeah, I was catching up on the conversation :-) |
| 00:01.31 | myric | just to make sure whatever changes I made didn't break something else |
| 00:02.04 | myric | I seem to be able to make primitives in archer, but it's giving me a lot of error messages |
| 00:03.15 | brlcad | an example error? |
| 00:03.49 | myric | oh ok sorry |
| 00:04.00 | myric | db_lookup(arb8.1.version2) failed: arb8.1.version2 does not exist |
| 00:04.24 | myric | I created a few arb8's and I am just moving them around and such |
| 00:04.53 | myric | this is one I get whenever I create a new object: |
| 00:04.56 | myric | Hiding BRL-CAD geometry (arb8.1.version2) is generaly a bad idea. |
| 00:04.56 | myric | This may cause unexpected problems with other commands. |
| 00:04.56 | myric | Are you sure you want to do this?? (y/n) |
| 00:05.34 | brlcad | ahh |
| 00:05.54 | myric | I'll be a few minutes. Gotta put my daughter to bed. |
| 00:06.08 | brlcad | that's some of archer's version tracking magic, not bad behavior (though it should quell that message) |
| 00:17.06 | CIA-9 | BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/librt/db_io.c: can't get an mrec of a v5 database |
| 00:37.56 | myric | well I seem to be able to make basic shapes. I'll see if I can figure out why it's giving me the error messages. |
| 00:40.43 | brlcad | that one in particular wasn't an error message |
| 00:40.58 | brlcad | just a verbose warning for interactive mode |
| 00:41.45 | myric | the one about hiding geometry? |
| 00:41.46 | brlcad | archer stashes previous versions of objects as "hidden" geometry, which can as it notes cause unexpected problems with other commands if you tried to mess with them |
| 00:42.39 | myric | The GUI stops responding until I go to the vt and type y or n... |
| 00:43.15 | brlcad | ah, hm.. that's not exactly expected ;) |
| 00:54.32 | CIA-9 | BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/mged/clone.c: prepare for making v5 primitives, restore abort on v5 combinations. |
| 01:00.38 | myric | so how far along is archer. I don't seem to be able to do boolean operations. |
| 01:00.41 | myric | ? |
| 01:03.46 | myric | not a complaint, just wondering if I'm missing something |
| 01:05.49 | brlcad | hmm, i'd have to defer that to archer's main dev (Bob) .. but I was under the impression that booleans should be fine |
| 01:05.59 | brlcad | are you referring to the command line or something in the gui? |
| 01:06.30 | brlcad | if anything, I believe the command line should let you make booleans as it's just an embedded version of mged's command line (for the most part) |
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| 01:06.51 | jano | must talk to monkeyboy! |
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| 01:07.17 | brlcad | heh |
| 01:54.16 | CIA-9 | BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/mged/clone.c: refactor the index |
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| 13:17.27 | CIA-9 | BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/mged/clone.c: now makes n copies of a solid primitive, but does not yet apply a transformation matrix |
| 13:23.16 | ``Erik | up late, sean? |
| 13:50.00 | *** join/#brlcad archivist (n=archivis@host217-35-76-52.in-addr.btopenworld.com) | |
| 14:41.33 | brlcad | ``Erik: yup |
| 16:26.03 | CIA-9 | BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/conv/fast4-g.c: |
| 16:26.03 | CIA-9 | BRL-CAD: this should allow for longer length object names when performing a conversion |
| 16:26.03 | CIA-9 | BRL-CAD: instead of seemingly arbitrarily limiting the names to 16 characters. this |
| 16:26.03 | CIA-9 | BRL-CAD: change is made in response to sf feature request 1539998 (FastGen to BRL-CAD |
| 16:26.03 | CIA-9 | BRL-CAD: converter truncates names) from ashleybomboy. |
| 16:36.24 | CIA-9 | BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/NEWS: |
| 16:36.24 | CIA-9 | BRL-CAD: support for longer Fastgen object names in fast4-g.. should allow for longer |
| 16:36.24 | CIA-9 | BRL-CAD: length object names when performing a conversion instead of seemingly |
| 16:36.24 | CIA-9 | BRL-CAD: arbitrarily limiting the names to 16 characters. this change is made in |
| 16:36.24 | CIA-9 | BRL-CAD: response to sf feature request 1539998 (FastGen to BRL-CAD converter truncates |
| 16:36.25 | CIA-9 | BRL-CAD: names) from ashleybomboy. |
| 17:24.59 | CIA-9 | BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/ (include/raytrace.h src/librt/wdb_obj.c): make RT_NAMESIZE obsolete, remove from public interface header. retain the v4 support for 16 char object names using a local define. |
| 17:26.48 | CIA-9 | BRL-CAD: 03erikgreenwald * 10brlcad/src/librt/g_metaball.c: |
| 17:26.48 | CIA-9 | BRL-CAD: Alter point value to be f^2/r^2. |
| 17:26.48 | CIA-9 | BRL-CAD: Set normalization routine to use f^2/r^3 to fix flipped normals. |
| 17:31.37 | CIA-9 | BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/ (libdm/dm-X.c libdm/dm-generic.c libfb/if_X.c): change function names to avoid debug build name clashing |
| 17:41.23 | ``Erik | http://www.yikers.com/video_hillbillies_mess_with_wrong_guy_and_get_gun_pulled_on_them.html |
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| 19:16.19 | IriX64 | for(;;) :) |
| 19:16.57 | IriX64 | same as while(1) :) |
| 19:17.43 | ValarQ | but the former looks better |
| 19:17.53 | IriX64 | heh yeah. |
| 19:18.15 | *** join/#brlcad clock_ (i=clock@84-72-89-63.dclient.hispeed.ch) | |
| 19:18.15 | ValarQ | while(!FALSE) is pretty nice as well |
| 19:18.31 | IriX64 | while(!TRUE) is too. |
| 19:18.43 | ValarQ | but none of them beats: replicate :: Int -> a -> [a] |
| 19:18.51 | IriX64 | or while(!1) ;) |
| 19:19.03 | brlcad | loop: |
| 19:19.03 | brlcad | .. |
| 19:19.06 | brlcad | goto loop; |
| 19:19.14 | brlcad | *ahem* |
| 19:19.25 | ValarQ | why don't you just model a continuation in a monad... |
| 19:19.29 | IriX64 | duplicate :: char ->b ->(c) |
| 19:19.57 | IriX64 | heh loopy games ;) |
| 19:20.01 | ValarQ | oh, a fellow haskeller? :) |
| 19:20.15 | IriX64 | dashenkup. |
| 19:20.46 | IriX64 | dvorak had it right. sigh. |
| 19:21.10 | IriX64 | querty won tho. |
| 19:21.58 | IriX64 | my constructor was destructed :) |
| 19:22.25 | IriX64 | gotta rethink this.... |
| 19:23.08 | IriX64 | generating the cygwin code as well as the target system is expensive in size, but it does keep me from having to do two seperate compiles to test the code. |
| 19:23.42 | IriX64 | lets see if the ymp build is right *this time. |
| 19:26.55 | IriX64 | cygwin side works now to call peter cray :) |
| 19:33.17 | brlcad | IriX64: you should try to set up simh vax |
| 19:33.42 | brlcad | get bsd installed in the vm and then compile brl-cad in there ;) |
| 19:33.50 | IriX64 | vax i speak, but simh is unknown to me. |
| 19:33.56 | IriX64 | i c ;) |
| 19:34.09 | brlcad | http://simh.trailing-edge.com/ |
| 19:34.19 | IriX64 | thank you. |
| 19:34.46 | IriX64 | you're thinking im pulling your chain? |
| 19:34.52 | brlcad | http://www.openbsd.org/vax-simh.html |
| 19:35.46 | IriX64 | its doable execute a cray nop first, system traps the illegal instruction trap and goes for the cygwin entry point. |
| 19:36.35 | IriX64 | system scans the code looking for the cygwin id if its not found then repoorts the trap. |
| 19:36.45 | IriX64 | reports too. |
| 19:37.18 | IriX64 | :) |
| 19:37.45 | IriX64 | 15 years later its all coming together. |
| 19:38.23 | IriX64 | want me to send you what i started with, cygw~1.exe? (16 megs) |
| 19:39.21 | IriX64 | swear |
| 19:40.55 | IriX64 | that hello world i maile ``Erik was my cygwin at work. |
| 19:41.01 | IriX64 | mailed too. |
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| 09:48.03 | CIA-9 | BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/sh/ (enumerate.sh Makefile.am lines.sh): |
| 09:48.03 | CIA-9 | BRL-CAD: renamed lines.sh to enumerate.sh and added more than just line counting to the |
| 09:48.03 | CIA-9 | BRL-CAD: report summary. the output now also includes details on the number of |
| 09:48.03 | CIA-9 | BRL-CAD: files/directories as well as the number of libraries and applications that are |
| 09:48.03 | CIA-9 | BRL-CAD: compiled/installed. |
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| 22:32.39 | *** topic/#brlcad is http://brlcad.org/ || BRL-CAD is an open source solid modeling software suite || Developers needed! Read the HACKING file for details on getting involved | |
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| 02:17.48 | CIA-9 | BRL-CAD: 03johnranderson * 10brlcad/src/libbu/ (bu_fgets.c Makefile.am): Added bu_fgets(). A replacement for fgets() that also recognizes CR as an EOL marker |
| 02:22.25 | CIA-9 | BRL-CAD: 03johnranderson * 10brlcad/src/conv/dxf-g.c: Now uses bu_fgets() so that DXF files that use CR as an EOL marker will be read correctly |
| 02:25.42 | CIA-9 | BRL-CAD: 03johnranderson * 10brlcad/include/bu.h: Added bu_fgets() |
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| 03:33.36 | CIA-9 | BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/include/raytrace.h: declare the newly added rt_matrix_transform() routine for applying a matrix transformation to a given object |
| 03:35.20 | CIA-9 | BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/librt/ (transform.c Makefile.am): initial implementation of rt_matrix_transform() routine for applying a matrix transformation to a given object. basically a convenient wrapper to not needlessly expose the rt_functab table to userland code. |
| 03:36.44 | CIA-9 | BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/mged/edsol.c: use the rt_matrix_transform() call from librt instead of hooking into the rt_functab directly. |
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| 08:28.16 | CIA-9 | BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/NEWS: john improved end-of-line file input processing in dxf-g |
| 08:32.00 | CIA-9 | BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/BUGS: |
| 08:32.00 | CIA-9 | BRL-CAD: john fixed the bug where the dxf-g converter was improperly handling files |
| 08:32.00 | CIA-9 | BRL-CAD: encoded with a different line ending style (e.g. CR+NL or CR only). this was |
| 08:32.00 | CIA-9 | BRL-CAD: done by implementing bu_fgets() that takes CR's into account. still need to |
| 08:32.00 | CIA-9 | BRL-CAD: test more and probably update all of the callers of fgets() but it's there now. |
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| 17:55.05 | CIA-9 | BRL-CAD: 03erikgreenwald * 10brlcad/src/tclscripts/mged/help.tcl: add superell and metaball to "make" help string |
| 17:56.05 | CIA-9 | BRL-CAD: 03erikgreenwald * 10brlcad/src/mged/chgmodel.c: added metaball to the "make" command |
| 18:03.13 | brlcad | ``Erik: superell was intentionally left off of the make help string as it's still considered experimental/incomplete |
| 18:44.13 | CIA-9 | BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/sh/enumerate.sh: output the date and version of BRL-CAD |
| 18:46.12 | CIA-9 | BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/sh/enumerate.sh: add = in the version string just to minimize the chance it's something that will not evaluate. |
| 18:48.31 | CIA-9 | BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/sh/vers.sh: use a somewhat more safe means to extract the version number from configure.ac |
| 18:53.06 | CIA-9 | BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/sh/ (enumerate.sh vers.sh): should escape the quotes since they're inside quotes |
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| 20:45.35 | IriX64 | 64 bit cygwin_nt , finally :) |
| 20:46.37 | IriX64 | not kidding, do a /ver on me :) |
| 20:48.11 | IriX64 | a cigarrete slaps me up side the head and says "good work, smoke em if you have em" :) |
| 21:07.47 | brlcad | what does that do? |
| 21:08.32 | IriX64 | allows linux builds for instance that do not have cygwin functioality in them, ie they don't need cygwin1.dll et al. |
| 21:09.32 | brlcad | you mean windows builds in the cygwin env that don't need that dll? |
| 21:09.32 | IriX64 | the other way was workable but had the overhead of all that cygwin code. |
| 21:09.38 | IriX64 | yes |
| 21:09.43 | IriX64 | no |
| 21:09.53 | IriX64 | wont run on windows. |
| 21:10.03 | IriX64 | with or without the dll's. |
| 21:10.27 | IriX64 | trying to become a unix system here :) |
| 21:10.56 | brlcad | you wont or the binaries wont? |
| 21:11.44 | IriX64 | run for instance irssi in the windows environment even with path set to dll's it simply reorts microsoft windows revision blah blah and exits. now |
| 21:13.12 | brlcad | so then whats it linking against if not cygwin to resolve those symbols? |
| 21:13.38 | IriX64 | sub reports/reorts. |
| 21:14.29 | IriX64 | there are no cygwin symbols, its a unix envronment now use the unix libraries for instance termlib. |
| 21:15.11 | IriX64 | heh noted :) |
| 21:15.21 | brlcad | termlib only gives you so much.. where's it getting things like select() from? |
| 21:15.43 | brlcad | if not from cygwin.. it should be some windows system library :) |
| 21:15.52 | brlcad | not that that's a bad thing |
| 21:15.56 | IriX64 | the system libraries i have a whack of them put together from gnu code mostly. |
| 21:16.04 | brlcad | has nothing to do with the windows gui fwiw too |
| 21:16.15 | IriX64 | true |
| 21:16.35 | IriX64 | i vist www.gnu.org frequently :) |
| 21:17.18 | IriX64 | redhat too :) |
| 21:18.06 | IriX64 | if i leave out --without-cygwin, i can build for windows. |
| 21:19.04 | IriX64 | was working on gcc 4.1.1 last night, my knuckles are still bleeding ;) |
| 21:20.58 | IriX64 | IriX64@hagarsfi-f038a0 ~ |
| 21:20.58 | IriX64 | $ gcc --version |
| 21:20.58 | IriX64 | gcc (GCC) 4.1.1 |
| 21:20.58 | IriX64 | Copyright (C) 2006 Free Software Foundation, Inc. |
| 21:20.58 | IriX64 | This is free software; see the source for copying conditions. There is NO |
| 21:21.00 | IriX64 | warranty; not even for MERCHANTABILITY or FITNESS FOR A PARTICULAR PURPOSE. |
| 21:21.02 | IriX64 | IriX64@hagarsfi-f038a0 ~ |
| 21:22.53 | brlcad | again with the pasting, really not necessary .. |
| 21:23.13 | IriX64 | $wanted to make point. |
| 21:23.25 | brlcad | as do I |
| 21:23.34 | IriX64 | . taken |
| 21:24.12 | brlcad | no reason to doubt that you didn't "really" have gcc 4.1.1 .. unless you think everyone should doubt everything you say.. |
| 21:24.29 | brlcad | or are you just talking out your ... ? ;) |
| 21:25.03 | IriX64 | oooooo you are promoted to the head of pyshiatry aberdeen maryland. ;) |
| 21:25.25 | IriX64 | err pyschiatry too. |
| 21:26.14 | IriX64 | brlcad: how do I use bu_free() ? ;) |
| 21:26.32 | IriX64 | ahhh i c bu_free(brlcad) ;) |
| 21:27.35 | brlcad | you're missing a parameter |
| 21:27.49 | brlcad | bu_free(brlcad, "deallocate brlcad"); |
| 21:28.17 | IriX64 | thats covered in my free but you have to return(brlcad) :) |
| 21:28.25 | brlcad | the string is optionally printed if the right debug flags are enabled at run-time so you can look for specific allocations/deallocations |
| 21:29.26 | IriX64 | err alloc. |
| 21:29.46 | IriX64 | sobriety break... bbiab |
| 21:30.41 | brlcad | the existance of the statement doesn't meant that it's going to be called, depends on the context, logic, and location |
| 22:09.11 | ``Erik | bring to me teh b00z0rz |
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| 00:52.20 | IriX64 | ermf sobriety break was a failure ;) |
| 00:53.25 | IriX64 | virtual beer just doesn't cut it :) |
| 01:13.13 | ``Erik | ... |
| 01:13.29 | ``Erik | you're "special", dude :) |
| 01:19.05 | IriX64 | heheh high praise coming from the "most special one" :) |
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| 01:27.33 | IriX64_ | ``Erik you're sp "special" i decided to visit you twice :) |
| 01:27.49 | IriX64_ | s/so/sp |
| 01:33.36 | IriX64 | had to restore, might not be doable Brlcad i fooled my self, the whole damn environment relies on thos dll's |
| 01:34.04 | IriX64 | however cross compiling can be done but that cygwin code is in there to doubles the binary. |
| 01:35.54 | IriX64 | for instance a linux install of brlcad is 1.14gb :( |
| 02:06.10 | IriX64 | check me: if i set --host --build is automatically set to i686-pc-cygwin, the configure checks all use the cygwin systems answers, however my compiler examines config.log upon execution and produces code based on the --host switch, (don't laff it really works) |
| 02:08.40 | IriX64 | had to leave the name as gcc because not all scripts honor CC. |
| 02:09.31 | IriX64 | suppose i could have two copies around. |
| 02:09.46 | IriX64 | messy solution though... i forget a lot :) |
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| 02:51.05 | IriX64 | 1+1=3 or more :) |
| 02:52.56 | IriX64 | you people should set up an ftp server. |
| 02:53.09 | IriX64 | that allows uploads. |
| 02:53.32 | IriX64 | some of my by-products are interesting, would love to share them with you. |
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| 20:32.52 | CIA-9 | BRL-CAD: 03jlowenz * 10brlcad/src/libpkg/pkg.c: added a new function: pkg_permserver_ip to support connecting to the loopback interface. involved some refactoring. not completely tested yet. |
| 20:33.53 | CIA-9 | BRL-CAD: 03jlowenz * 10brlcad/include/pkg.h: added a new function: pkg_permserver_ip to support connecting to the loopback interface. involved some refactoring. not completely tested yet. |
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| 04:29.02 | CIA-9 | BRL-CAD: 03johnranderson * 10brlcad/src/conv/stl-g.c: now ignores leading white space on the first line of the STL file |
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| 08:32.19 | CIA-9 | BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/NEWS: john adds improved beginning-of-line input processing in stl-g |
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| 14:17.24 | ``Erik | *stretch* |
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| 17:42.30 | ValarQ | *chirp* |
| 17:42.51 | IriX64 | a chick ... a dee neat :) |
| 17:43.29 | ValarQ | just a parrot walking on my keyboard... ;P |
| 17:43.49 | IriX64 | thought it was your mouse squeaking :) |
| 17:44.34 | ValarQ | nah, my mouse is broken |
| 17:45.02 | IriX64 | doesn't sqeak anymore ? poor mouse . :) |
| 17:45.05 | ValarQ | i tested my pneumatic cylinder on it :/ |
| 17:45.29 | IriX64 | ooooo the ball pean effect. :) |
| 17:45.29 | ValarQ | there was small plastic pieces in the entire room |
| 17:46.06 | ValarQ | maybe i get myself a trackball... |
| 17:46.45 | IriX64 | my balls don't leave tracks :P |
| 17:47.19 | ValarQ | a ball that tracks, not leave tracks :P |
| 17:47.33 | IriX64 | heh |
| 17:51.18 | IriX64 | if they do they track each other ;) |
| 17:51.39 | IriX64 | what did colten edwards do here now? |
| 17:52.55 | IriX64 | cavlink? why is it necessary :) |
| 17:54.17 | IriX64 | permission to bring this thing up and load a couple dll's when its built? |
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| 18:00.38 | IriX64 | 13:59 -!- ValarQ [i=vq@81-235-190-136-no48.tbcn.telia.com] |
| 18:00.38 | IriX64 | 13:59 -!- ircname : Unknown |
| 18:00.38 | IriX64 | 13:59 -!- channels : #brlcad |
| 18:00.38 | IriX64 | 13:59 -!- server : irc.freenode.net [http://freenode.net/] |
| 18:00.39 | IriX64 | 13:59 -!- : is identified to services |
| 18:00.50 | IriX64 | 13:59 -!- End of WHOIS |
| 18:01.13 | IriX64_ | works |
| 18:01.22 | IriX64 | here too |
| 18:01.34 | ValarQ | you and your pastings :P |
| 18:01.39 | IriX64 | heh |
| 18:02.01 | IriX64 | didn't want to be told put up or shut up, headed it off at the pass :) |
| 18:02.49 | ValarQ | not many channels visible there |
| 00:07.20 | *** join/#brlcad ibot (i=ibot@pdpc/supporter/active/TimRiker/bot/apt) | |
| 00:07.20 | *** topic/#brlcad is http://brlcad.org/ || BRL-CAD is an open source solid modeling software suite || Developers needed! Read the HACKING file for details on getting involved | |
| 01:09.21 | ``Erik | huh? pix? |
| 01:37.57 | *** join/#brlcad dan_falck (n=danfalck@pool-71-111-76-8.ptldor.dsl-w.verizon.net) | |
| 02:07.38 | IriX64 | picture. |
| 02:08.32 | IriX64 | are you guys actually at aberdeen? |
| 02:08.57 | IriX64 | if so you must have amazing toys. |
| 02:09.43 | ``Erik | <-- work sat aberdeen |
| 02:09.47 | ``Erik | s/ s/s / |
| 02:10.13 | IriX64 | an amazing place? are there tours? |
| 02:10.38 | IriX64 | the mill i worked in used to have tours. |
| 02:13.53 | IriX64 | ValarQ: did you get those last screen shots, and by the way I love your desktop :) |
| 02:15.25 | IriX64 | through too. |
| 02:20.23 | dtidrow | heh |
| 02:34.11 | IriX64 | ermf graphics work is always memory intensive (virtual memory low) |
| 02:34.45 | dtidrow | how much memory do you have on that box? |
| 02:34.55 | IriX64 | 512 meg. |
| 02:35.09 | dtidrow | ah |
| 02:35.16 | dtidrow | 10mem[Physical : 1355MB/2026MB Free | Swap : 3463MB/3467MB Free] |
| 02:35.26 | dtidrow | 2GB on this one :-) |
| 02:35.40 | IriX64 | lend some please. |
| 02:35.47 | IriX64 | :) |
| 02:35.48 | dtidrow | usually means I don't have to worry much about memory problems :-) |
| 02:36.02 | dtidrow | memory is fairly cheap these days |
| 02:36.06 | IriX64 | except parity errors :P |
| 02:36.15 | dtidrow | brb |
| 02:58.40 | dtidrow | b |
| 07:30.58 | *** join/#brlcad clock_ (i=clock@84-72-63-47.dclient.hispeed.ch) | |
| 08:07.33 | ValarQ | IriX64: pretty ugly desktop you got there :P |
| 14:33.33 | *** join/#brlcad clock_ (i=clock@84-72-63-47.dclient.hispeed.ch) | |
| 14:56.43 | IriX64 | ValarQ: I admit it needs a cleanup :) |
| 15:00.57 | ValarQ | IriX64: maybe you want my desktop theme? :) |
| 15:02.24 | IriX64 | ValarQ:would love to have it, will it work on XP-Pro? |
| 15:02.53 | ValarQ | no idea |
| 15:03.00 | IriX64 | heh i'll pass then. |
| 15:03.31 | ValarQ | it works great on my gentoo box :) |
| 15:08.05 | IriX64 | whats the canonicalized name for that box? |
| 15:09.15 | IriX64 | come cassie's waiting. |
| 15:10.57 | IriX64 | version 10.0.0 just for you. |
| 15:11.54 | IriX64 | last chance or ill build a x86-unix-freebsd one :) |
| 15:12.33 | ValarQ | canonicalized? |
| 15:13.12 | IriX64 | archithecture-manufacturer-operationg system. |
| 15:13.28 | IriX64 | blah cant spell :) |
| 15:13.44 | ValarQ | x86_64-me-GNU then :) |
| 15:13.56 | IriX64 | as in the example sparc64-sun-solaris64. |
| 15:14.01 | IriX64 | ah thankyou. |
| 15:15.29 | IriX64 | took it. in an hour we'll see. |
| 15:16.15 | IriX64 | ValarQ: Won't be able to mail it to you though :( |
| 15:16.21 | IriX64 | :) |
| 15:16.22 | ValarQ | ? |
| 15:16.30 | IriX64 | the binaries. |
| 15:16.53 | ValarQ | thats ok, i got my own |
| 15:17.05 | IriX64 | heh but mine are prettier. |
| 15:17.49 | ValarQ | heh |
| 15:18.18 | ValarQ | you can't compete with my homemade elf-headers! :P |
| 15:19.16 | IriX64 | shes building it. |
| 15:21.25 | IriX64 | suppose i could have used x86_64-unix-gnu. |
| 15:25.53 | IriX64 | for x86_64-me-gnu-gcc.......cassie.exe <==== gotta love it. |
| 15:38.40 | IriX64 | hahahah heavy fuel ... by dire straits, on the night album. |
| 15:43.58 | *** join/#brlcad IriX64_ (n=IriX64@toronto-HSE-ppp4305039.sympatico.ca) | |
| 15:44.27 | IriX64_ | btw my boxen's core is an AMD64 model 8100+ |
| 15:47.16 | IriX64_ | must go burn an offering, bbiab. |
| 16:02.34 | *** join/#brlcad IriX64_ (n=IriX64@toronto-HSE-ppp4305655.sympatico.ca) | |
| 16:18.32 | IriX64_ | sigh...rebuild, i forgot to leave the cygwin code out :( |
| 16:32.39 | IriX64_ | restarted. |
| 16:33.25 | IriX64_ | ValarQ: wouldn't it be easeier to build your own binaries ? :) |
| 16:36.55 | IriX64_ | Dancin in Gods country (Rebbeca Lynn Howard- Forgive album) |
| 16:39.31 | IriX64_ | summer stars up in the sky, barefeet on the ground ;) |
| 16:40.54 | IriX64_ | time for a cup of char bbiab. |
| 17:25.45 | IriX64_ | cuts compile time in 1/2 leaving that cygwin code out. |
| 17:31.54 | *** join/#brlcad IriX64 (n=IriX64@toronto-HSE-ppp4308715.sympatico.ca) | |
| 17:33.00 | IriX64 | ValarQ: what do you think of my artistic talents? :) |
| 17:40.06 | IriX64 | well gnu to you 2 it built. |
| 17:40.47 | IriX64 | installed directory is 181,703kb zipped. |
| 17:41.55 | brlcad | you do realize you've been talking solo for over two and a half hours? :) |
| 17:42.13 | IriX64 | I'm my own best friend. |
| 17:42.17 | IriX64 | :) |
| 17:42.19 | brlcad | heh |
| 17:42.31 | IriX64 | ValarQ at work? |
| 17:42.47 | IriX64 | hey wait its the weekend. |
| 17:43.43 | IriX64 | Tell her it's hers if she wants it. |
| 17:44.25 | IriX64 | now to see if i cab break the home network, back later. |
| 17:44.31 | IriX64 | can too. |
| 18:49.38 | ``Erik | some people REALLY shouldn't do drugs. |
| 18:52.29 | *** join/#brlcad IriX64 (n=IriX64@toronto-HSE-ppp4308715.sympatico.ca) | |
| 18:54.27 | IriX64 | Ha dcc send to my self works. |
| 18:55.42 | IriX64 | Can someone come out to play ;) |
| 18:56.38 | IriX64 | lets build ValarQ a gentoo irssi. |
| 18:58.52 | IriX64 | whats with irssi and perl support? |
| 19:00.25 | IriX64 | make dist = irssi-0.8.10.tar.gz :) |
| 19:15.20 | IriX64 | doh!! bitchslap me, who am I to think she doesn't already have one? :) |
| 19:16.30 | IriX64 | shouldn't go making ass umptions like that, mea culpa :) |
| 19:18.22 | IriX64 | the difference bewteen me, and some like yourselfs, who actually work for a living, is I'm always in relax mode. |
| 19:18.48 | IriX64 | err between, too. |
| 19:20.57 | ``Erik | heh |
| 19:22.17 | ``Erik | if you're bored, irix64, there's a whole laundry list of crap todo... in fact, an easy one would be to update src/librt/rt.3 and fix the description of 'a_onehit', since the documentation and code no longer jive... |
| 19:23.33 | IriX64 | already fixed :) |
| 19:24.09 | IriX64 | not that i'm board;) |
| 19:26.07 | IriX64 | is that the good one twingy? ive heard a little. |
| 19:26.19 | ``Erik | heh, not playing with the forge today, justin? :) |
| 19:27.09 | IriX64 | ``Erik? sourceforge? :) |
| 19:27.14 | Twingy | I've got to get my mill working before I can take the couple castings I've already made and clean them up |
| 19:27.27 | ``Erik | no, irix, justin built a metal forge for casting stuff... |
| 19:27.55 | ``Erik | I'd be interested in seeing one of your billets cut in half to see how clean the aluminum is :) |
| 19:28.04 | IriX64 | whoa man after my iown heart i know steel twingy. ASI. |
| 19:28.22 | Twingy | http://js.cx/~justin/images/crucible_hot.jpg |
| 19:28.50 | ``Erik | <-- doesn't consume much in the way of aluminum cans, but could provide a few 'tin' cans if that'd be useful |
| 19:29.27 | Twingy | I'm not doing any bronze yet |
| 19:29.42 | ``Erik | okie |
| 19:30.05 | ``Erik | where are you getting the scrap copper? |
| 19:30.27 | IriX64 | the hole at the right is the heat source? |
| 19:30.48 | Twingy | correct |
| 19:31.12 | Twingy | 10G wire |
| 19:31.14 | IriX64 | why not stereo it one at the left too would speed things up. |
| 19:31.26 | Twingy | because I don't want to? |
| 19:31.45 | IriX64 | heh ok you're the registred owner, what you say goes :) |
| 19:31.56 | ``Erik | heh, why introduce extra equipment cost when the current solution accomplishes the task? |
| 19:31.59 | Twingy | damn skippy |
| 19:32.08 | IriX64 | the roo? |
| 19:32.37 | ``Erik | if I come across a wad of copper or think of a source, I'll pass it on... :) |
| 19:32.43 | ``Erik | <-- only worked with aluminum |
| 19:32.48 | ``Erik | for forge work |
| 19:33.26 | Twingy | k |
| 19:33.38 | Twingy | you know there's an AiC concert at power plant in october |
| 19:33.52 | IriX64 | mmmm gold (ducking and runing) |
| 19:34.44 | ``Erik | that's what I heard |
| 19:34.59 | ``Erik | 98 was jabbering about it and giving away tickets |
| 19:36.32 | Twingy | 105 has too much talking, 98 has too much commercials |
| 19:36.48 | IriX64 | gotta see a man about a recurring leak bbiab. |
| 19:36.52 | ``Erik | heh, both have too much talking and too much commercials |
| 19:37.04 | ``Erik | I should get me one of them ipod thingies for my car |
| 19:47.55 | IriX64 | Twingy you should put a drain on the bottom of that thing bingo a mini vessel. |
| 19:50.48 | IriX64 | sun microsystems sure tries hard to sell their stuff :) |
| 19:54.31 | ``Erik | heh, you don't know how hard until you work in a high reliability data center. |
| 19:54.48 | ``Erik | they send "sales engineers" that all but give you a hummer |
| 19:59.50 | IriX64 | hah sweet gig if you can get it. |
| 20:00.03 | IriX64 | gotta reboot see you next year :) |
| 20:02.13 | Twingy | oof |
| 20:02.21 | Twingy | those speakers are intsense |
| 20:02.25 | Twingy | intense |
| 20:02.33 | Twingy | give me a headache from the bass |
| 20:49.13 | *** join/#brlcad clock_ (i=clock@84-72-63-47.dclient.hispeed.ch) | |
| 20:54.07 | CIA-6 | BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/libtclcad/tkCanvBezier.c: make sure the display isn't null before proceeding. really shouldn't ever be if we got this far, but if it is, we avoid a crash. add a localvar footer while we're at it |
| 21:01.09 | CIA-6 | BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/libdm/ (dm-X.c dm-glx.c dm-ogl.c dm-pex.c dm-tk.c dm-wgl.c): |
| 21:01.09 | CIA-6 | BRL-CAD: make sure we actually got a display before proceeding with the display manager |
| 21:01.09 | CIA-6 | BRL-CAD: initialization. this prevents the display manager from crashing out quickly |
| 21:01.10 | CIA-6 | BRL-CAD: upon startup when some condition fails (like there not being an X11 server to |
| 21:01.10 | CIA-6 | BRL-CAD: connect to, then attempting to get the size of that display or a screen, etc) |
| 22:07.40 | *** join/#brlcad IriX64 (n=IriX64@toronto-HSE-ppp4304845.sympatico.ca) | |
| 22:10.44 | *** join/#brlcad IriX64_ (n=Who@toronto-HSE-ppp4304845.sympatico.ca) | |
| 22:21.03 | IriX64 | The Captain said "Is that clear"? Sergeant replies i don't know her ;) |
| 22:30.35 | brlcad | nope, just busy working on code |
| 22:40.44 | ValarQ | IriX64: i haven't said that |
| 22:41.27 | IriX64 | meant Crsytal Clear. (Her I know) |
| 22:42.18 | IriX64 | I am a soldier of fortune, in the army of the man, I have taken the coin of the realm :) |
| 22:43.10 | IriX64 | brlcad ... man it's Sasturday. :) |
| 22:43.19 | IriX64 | Saturday too. |
| 22:45.06 | brlcad | and? |
| 22:45.56 | brlcad | usually brl-cad, bzflag, or a variety of personal coding ventures |
| 22:46.56 | IriX64 | phew... whats that smell...oh yeah ... stale. (Ducking and running hard) |
| 22:49.57 | IriX64 | how big is the database for that stryker picture? |
| 22:50.18 | Twingy | in brl-cad or adrt? |
| 22:50.24 | IriX64 | brl-cad |
| 22:50.36 | Twingy | few hundred megs I think |
| 22:50.54 | IriX64 | beautiful picture. |
| 22:51.08 | IriX64 | 5 days though? |
| 22:51.17 | Twingy | yep |
| 22:51.36 | IriX64 | suppose i should get used to 3 hour long responses then sigh ;) |
| 22:52.01 | Twingy | something like 8 trillion rays |
| 22:52.18 | IriX64 | saw that 48 cpu effort huh? |
| 22:53.17 | Twingy | yep |
| 22:53.24 | brlcad | could probably render it on newer boxes with the new code in a day or two |
| 22:53.31 | IriX64 | awesone |
| 22:53.43 | Twingy | on the pengions, yea |
| 22:53.48 | Twingy | penguins |
| 22:54.08 | Twingy | if I bothered to optimize the DoF stuff it'd go much quicker |
| 22:54.18 | Twingy | without DoF it's only like 2 hours |
| 22:54.29 | IriX64 | DoF?? |
| 22:54.39 | Twingy | depth of field |
| 22:54.44 | IriX64 | ty |
| 22:57.41 | Twingy | generating pretty pictures gets pretty humdrum after a while though |
| 22:58.21 | Twingy | I find metal working to have the same effect |
| 22:59.42 | IriX64 | metal reminds me of the steel plant. |
| 23:00.15 | IriX64 | urff ive never seen a real live plant made of steel :) |
| 23:00.49 | Twingy | were you dropped on your head as a kid? |
| 23:01.22 | IriX64 | ``Erik reminds you of wall candy :) |
| 23:02.24 | Twingy | so that's a yes? |
| 23:03.06 | IriX64 | heh would any self respecting idiot admit to it? |
| 23:05.32 | Twingy | I believe you would |
| 23:05.53 | Twingy | hence my asking |
| 23:05.59 | IriX64 | that implies i have no self respect. |
| 23:07.43 | IriX64 | now i'm brain dead and theres no going back, so lets finish the job, who's got a 9 mm? :) |
| 23:07.58 | Twingy | hold on, I'll forge you one, brb |
| 23:08.02 | IriX64 | heh |
| 23:09.01 | IriX64 | just get a piece of 1/2 pipe and stick a .45 shell into it and hit it with a hammer. :) |
| 23:10.02 | Twingy | so you've done this in the past... |
| 23:10.22 | Twingy | and failed at that too... |
| 23:10.52 | brlcad | would explain a lot |
| 23:11.05 | IriX64 | zip ;) |
| 23:12.06 | Twingy | you know that's an architecture and not just a spliff right? |
| 23:12.30 | IriX64 | mary? you here? ;) |
| 23:16.08 | Twingy | wtf? |
| 23:16.20 | Twingy | dude, you're starting to freak me out |
| 23:16.35 | IriX64 | sorry. :) |
| 23:17.01 | IriX64 | smokity break. |
| 23:43.08 | IriX64 | CFLAGS='-without-cygwin' ./configure blah blah :) |
| 01:16.40 | IriX64 | works like this, my compiler generates code for the arch and os its intended to run on *firts, but taked onto it is code for my cygwin effort, now the first instruction in the first part of the code is a NOP, which does nothing untoward if run on the machine its intended for, however on my system the os traps the invalid instruction exception and goes looking for the cygwin entry point. result ... i can run anything i build with compiling |
| 01:17.14 | IriX64 | without compiling twice. |
| 01:21.35 | IriX64 | the -without-cygwin (just changed it to -DWITHOUT-CYGWIN) switch produces production code. |
| 01:22.02 | IriX64 | easier |
| 01:22.53 | IriX64 | my compiler checks to see if its a directive else it leaves it as a macro |
| 01:23.12 | IriX64 | i left room for lots of those :) |
| 01:23.16 | Twingy | http://www.grizzly.com/products/h7795 |
| 01:24.19 | Twingy | I just ordered that |
| 01:24.46 | IriX64 | you people and your bleeding edge technology ;) |
| 01:24.49 | Twingy | same drill will cost you $200 from dewalt or nakkita |
| 01:25.14 | Twingy | well, the current one I have is a 4 year old 9.6V craftsman with batteries that are next to shot |
| 01:25.47 | IriX64 | mine still has a cord :) |
| 01:26.24 | Twingy | corded ones are generally ok |
| 01:26.40 | Twingy | but for example, when I go to install solar panels on my roof in 2 weeks, I'll need cordless |
| 01:26.51 | IriX64 | *if there's an outlet nearby. |
| 01:26.59 | IriX64 | see above. |
| 01:27.46 | Twingy | 1.5Ah at 18V is generally good for putting in about 500 wood screws |
| 01:28.29 | Twingy | whereas my 9.6V drill will be dead after about 150 |
| 01:29.14 | Twingy | I've also got the air drill and 2 drill presses |
| 01:55.15 | IriX64 | shouldn't have started a gcc compile while i'm compiling brlcad, system speed now = slug. |
| 01:57.24 | IriX64 | ah... you think i'm a poser, because i'm running mirc and saying i'm compiling brlcad. I told you this is unix high on windows :) |
| 01:58.16 | IriX64 | but soft what tender brew whispers my name ... :) |
| 02:03.31 | IriX64 | all kidding aside cassandra(read cygwin) is a virtual generic unix system, most stuff i compile for runs on it, trick is i have to start from source. |
| 02:03.48 | IriX64 | oh and it is 64 bit. |
| 02:04.54 | IriX64 | not kidding the linux bitchx craps here but if i compile for linux from source it runs here, problem is i have no one to test for the intended audience. |
| 02:05.28 | Twingy | that's your job |
| 02:05.46 | IriX64 | will *you pay me for it :) |
| 02:06.15 | IriX64 | as i said on my strange brew they work. |
| 02:06.28 | IriX64 | will they on a real say linux box. |
| 02:06.40 | Twingy | like I said, that's your f'ing job |
| 02:07.23 | IriX64 | finding a linux box you mean? (I'm poor twingy dont have your resources and no im not begging here.) |
| 02:07.46 | Twingy | heard of multiple partitions? |
| 02:07.58 | IriX64 | id have to start over. |
| 02:08.08 | IriX64 | one drive 200 gig partition. |
| 02:08.13 | Twingy | so run a vm |
| 02:08.20 | IriX64 | see my windows xp is not stock. |
| 02:08.31 | Twingy | I doin't care |
| 02:08.37 | Twingy | either use a vm |
| 02:08.39 | Twingy | or repartition |
| 02:08.44 | Twingy | or stop bitching |
| 02:09.05 | IriX64 | join me in a malt? :) |
| 02:09.10 | Twingy | no |
| 02:09.24 | IriX64 | i'll drink it myself then. |
| 02:11.32 | IriX64 | i still have a licence for vmware, twingy thankyou. |
| 02:13.36 | Twingy | so use it |
| 02:17.35 | IriX64 | guess if it runs on linux 5.2 (Redhat) it'll run on modern linux huh? |
| 02:18.22 | IriX64 | keep your shorts on straight twingy i'm downloading vmware now. |
| 02:19.34 | IriX64 | last time i tried this i stupidly installed os/2 warp4 |
| 02:24.49 | IriX64 | err RedHat 5.1.5 |
| 02:25.03 | Twingy | 5.2 was biltmore |
| 02:25.17 | IriX64 | this is i think manhattan. |
| 02:26.01 | IriX64 | hey Bud get me another beer :) |
| 02:26.02 | Twingy | no that was 4.2 |
| 02:27.38 | IriX64 | manhattan is 5.1 its in the book. |
| 02:27.57 | Twingy | the first production machine I admin'd was running 4.0 |
| 02:29.06 | Twingy | most people don't |
| 02:29.23 | Twingy | correction, most linux zealots don't |
| 02:30.52 | IriX64 | you calling me names? ;) |
| 02:34.53 | IriX64 | ever hear of bigstorageonline.com? |
| 02:35.01 | IriX64 | or similar? |
| 03:06.26 | *** join/#brlcad CIA-11 (i=cia@cia.navi.cx) | |
| 04:40.23 | Twingy | http://members.ozemail.com.au/~lbrash/msjokes/blue-screen-of-death.gif |
| 04:42.41 | IriX64 | did you "forge" that :) |
| 04:56.37 | *** join/#brlcad Maloeran (n=maloeran@glvortex.net) | |
| 05:08.26 | *** join/#brlcad jano (n=point@216.115.228.148) | |
| 05:08.29 | *** part/#brlcad jano (n=point@216.115.228.148) | |
| 06:00.02 | *** join/#brlcad clock_ (i=clock@84-72-63-47.dclient.hispeed.ch) | |
| 08:31.30 | *** join/#brlcad clock_ (i=clock@84-72-63-47.dclient.hispeed.ch) | |
| 09:59.54 | *** join/#brlcad lg_ (n=lg_@85.101.251.30) | |
| 10:00.04 | lg_ | hi |
| 11:26.12 | *** join/#brlcad clock_ (i=clock@84-72-62-38.dclient.hispeed.ch) | |
| 12:31.55 | ``Erik | heh |
| 12:32.19 | lg_ | hi |
| 12:32.29 | lg_ | alive ;-) |
| 12:52.51 | ValarQ | IriX64: i still don't understand why you cut every shot |
| 12:53.23 | lg_ | ? |
| 13:03.07 | *** part/#brlcad lg_ (n=lg_@85.101.251.30) | |
| 13:52.12 | CIA-11 | BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/libdm/query.c: don't use the HAVE_XOPENDISPLAY define, configure doesn't provide it atm anyways. instead merge in the logic pertaining to checking for X and/or GLX into their respective sections. |
| 13:54.07 | CIA-11 | BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/libdm/tcl.c: |
| 13:54.07 | CIA-11 | BRL-CAD: copy the name/port of the x11 server into a temporary buffer. this avoids some |
| 13:54.07 | CIA-11 | BRL-CAD: odd stack corruption that is probably related to a bug somewhere else. this is |
| 13:54.07 | CIA-11 | BRL-CAD: of course just masking tape over one of the symptoms more than likely. |
| 13:56.55 | CIA-11 | BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/mged/ged.c: if mged was started in interactive mode and fails to create a display manager, revert to classic mode. |
| 14:10.59 | CIA-11 | BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/mged/ged.c: break message into two lines on abort. |
| 14:17.21 | *** join/#brlcad clock_ (i=clock@84-72-62-38.dclient.hispeed.ch) | |
| 17:07.03 | *** join/#brlcad ValarQ (i=vq@81-235-190-136-no48.tbcn.telia.com) | |
| 23:32.32 | *** join/#brlcad SWPadnos (n=Me@dsl245.esjtvtli.sover.net) | |
| 00:30.34 | *** join/#brlcad IriX64 (n=IriX64@toronto-HSE-ppp4308317.sympatico.ca) | |
| 00:33.37 | IriX64 | if you could have brlcad on any platform you don't already support what would it be? |
| 00:35.11 | IriX64 | canonicalized please. |
| 00:37.38 | IriX64 | c2-cray-unicos all right? ;) |
| 00:44.29 | IriX64 | recompiled gcc last evening needs a real workout :) |
| 00:46.12 | IriX64 | Twingy... got vmware installed but every time i ask for a licence their server sends it but it never arrives, tried three different e-mail addresses, just goes to digital heaven or something. |
| 00:54.40 | IriX64 | ValarQ: because my handy little screen capture program behaves that way :) |
| 01:00.51 | *** join/#brlcad pra5ad (n=prasad@pool-151-196-137-196.balt.east.verizon.net) | |
| 01:01.36 | pra5ad | "Turn this b**ch motherf***er LEFT!!" |
| 01:01.47 | pra5ad | SoaP was hilarious |
| 01:07.22 | *** join/#brlcad BrownBear (n=nathanie@74.137.58.249) | |
| 01:39.45 | brlcad | IriX64: actually, I've been wanting to put together a BeOS/ZetaOS build for quite some time |
| 01:40.24 | brlcad | I have discs for them sitting right over (*reaches*) there, but have yet to find a suitable machine to install it onto |
| 01:46.58 | BrownBear | hello, anybody willing to give a hand with an install problem? |
| 01:58.51 | IriX64 | brlcad: those are both os's i need arch and os. |
| 01:59.04 | IriX64 | :) |
| 01:59.46 | IriX64 | BrownBear: perhaps if you stated your problem... |
| 02:01.09 | BrownBear | thanks IriX64, just making sure people are awake before I start rambling. |
| 02:01.29 | BrownBear | I'm going through a make right now that almost looks promising, I'll get back to you quickly if it doesn't go well this time |
| 02:02.02 | IriX64 | what arch/os? |
| 02:03.21 | IriX64 | Zeta? how bout alpha/omega systems. :) |
| 02:03.50 | IriX64 | The ZetaOs are they still developing it? |
| 02:07.20 | brlcad | zetaos is pretty new |
| 02:07.32 | BrownBear | Ok, it failed again. Whenever I try to make after running ./configure, it gives out errors related to tk |
| 02:07.43 | brlcad | BrownBear: someone is always listening and will eventually respond if you hang in the channel long enough |
| 02:07.53 | brlcad | BrownBear: are you using a source dist or CVS? |
| 02:07.58 | BrownBear | source |
| 02:08.03 | brlcad | what ver? |
| 02:08.14 | BrownBear | 7.8.2 |
| 02:08.32 | brlcad | the errors related to Tk are probably X11 symbols/declarations missing |
| 02:08.45 | brlcad | do you have X11 headers/libs installed? |
| 02:09.13 | brlcad | if this is a debian/ubuntu system, there's a separate apt for them |
| 02:09.17 | BrownBear | that's a good question, one that I'm sure is "no" |
| 02:09.33 | brlcad | what's the OS? |
| 02:09.49 | BrownBear | debian |
| 02:09.52 | brlcad | ) |
| 02:10.18 | brlcad | yeah, that's almost certainly the problem then |
| 02:10.56 | BrownBear | cool. should i go for the libx11-6 stuff or the xlibs-data? |
| 02:11.12 | IriX64 | whats the error say the first one (pardon brlcad) |
| 02:11.15 | brlcad | i forget the name of the package to install, think it depends whether you're xorg or xfree and some other detail.. |
| 02:11.59 | BrownBear | the first error i get is: |
| 02:12.00 | BrownBear | tk.h:98:23: error: X11/Xlib.h: No such file or directory |
| 02:12.00 | BrownBear | In file included from tkPort.h:20, |
| 02:12.00 | BrownBear | <PROTECTED> |
| 02:12.00 | BrownBear | tk.h:574: error: syntax error before 'Window' |
| 02:12.09 | BrownBear | then it kinda goes on from there for about 600 more lines |
| 02:12.12 | brlcad | yeah, missing X11 header |
| 02:12.24 | brlcad | then it just dumps about every X11 symbol under the sun |
| 02:12.37 | brlcad | that's a -dev package iirc |
| 02:13.48 | IriX64 | shouldnt even configure. |
| 02:13.49 | BrownBear | cool, i appreciate it fellas. i'll try installing those and see where it goes |
| 02:14.22 | IriX64 | try --without-x |
| 02:14.58 | BrownBear | i can appreciate the "wait for a response". I used to run a jeep channel on undernet, could go hours and hours without a sord being said, then it was 25 voices all at once |
| 02:16.15 | brlcad | don't use --without-x |
| 02:16.33 | brlcad | that would probably work, but it disables some aspects that you probably want |
| 02:16.42 | brlcad | BrownBear: I think it's xlibs-dev |
| 02:17.46 | BrownBear | thanks brlcad, i apt'd libx11-dev cause it popped up in my search, if it doesn't work, i'll give xlibs a try |
| 02:21.36 | brlcad | hopefully not mixing xfree stuff with xorg stuff ;) |
| 02:22.00 | brlcad | should still work header-wise, but it can cause problems if you link with the wrong library |
| 02:22.06 | brlcad | guess you'll find out ;) |
| 02:23.10 | BrownBear | i got a rude awakening when i did a dist-upgrade and found that i lost all x abilities |
| 02:23.26 | BrownBear | had to rebuild it all, believe it's xorg now |
| 02:24.55 | BrownBear | i'm watching make build tk stuff right now, maybe i got lucky? |
| 02:25.07 | BrownBear | that's a big negative |
| 02:25.14 | BrownBear | but i got much further this time |
| 02:27.04 | brlcad | probably got to a link phase and it errored? |
| 02:27.14 | brlcad | <PROTECTED> |
| 02:27.35 | brlcad | those are the only two system assumptions that come to mind |
| 02:27.44 | BrownBear | ./.libs/libtk.so: undefined reference to `XSetInputFocus' |
| 02:27.44 | BrownBear | ./.libs/libtk.so: undefined reference to `XFreePixmap' |
| 02:27.44 | BrownBear | ./.libs/libtk.so: undefined reference to `XCreateGlyphCursor' |
| 02:27.53 | brlcad | ahh yeah, link phase |
| 02:28.06 | brlcad | you did run ./configure again, yes? |
| 02:28.11 | BrownBear | yup |
| 02:28.16 | BrownBear | and make clean before |
| 02:28.34 | brlcad | didn't need that, but configure yes ;) |
| 02:29.13 | brlcad | that implies some other pacakge still missing, X11 libraries (Xlib) |
| 02:29.29 | brlcad | they're separate from the -dev headers |
| 02:29.38 | BrownBear | i'm confused, which package is right for an xorg system, libx11-dev or xlibs-dev? |
| 02:30.52 | brlcad | asking the wrong dev if you want to know for sure -- what's their respective description? |
| 02:31.24 | BrownBear | xlibs-dev - X Window System client library development files dummy package |
| 02:31.24 | BrownBear | libx11-dev - X11 client-side library (development headers) |
| 02:32.26 | brlcad | "sounds" like the latter, but then I'm no debian expert |
| 02:32.32 | brlcad | what does it say for xorg-x11-devel |
| 02:32.43 | brlcad | are you not running X11 already? |
| 02:34.22 | brlcad | locate libX11 | grep X11R6/lib |
| 02:36.16 | BrownBear | yes, I have X11 running |
| 02:36.31 | BrownBear | had to dig to make sure |
| 02:37.05 | *** join/#brlcad jscott (n=johnscot@pool-70-17-115-114.res.east.verizon.net) | |
| 02:41.24 | BrownBear | weird, i asked it to install xlibs-dev, had pm-dev as a depend, which had xfree86-common as a dependancy |
| 02:41.53 | brlcad | sounds like that might not be the one then |
| 02:41.58 | brlcad | if you really are running xorg |
| 02:42.33 | BrownBear | i hope not, cause it's asking to download 904MB |
| 02:42.44 | brlcad | really don't want to mix the two up .. maybe asking around in #debian before proceeding blind :) |
| 02:43.16 | brlcad | for what it's worth, the linux binaries as posted for 7.8.2 should actually run fine on debian |
| 02:44.20 | BrownBear | i tried those, and had a problem with mged not finding libtermio.so.19 |
| 02:44.31 | BrownBear | thought this would fix it, but has led to one problem after another |
| 02:48.43 | BrownBear | i've read that linking to that file should fix the problem but have had little luck |
| 02:51.13 | brlcad | if that's the only library, you might get away with just compiling libtermio |
| 02:51.31 | brlcad | cd src/libtermio && make |
| 02:52.44 | brlcad | if that works cleanly, run 'make install' after you have installed the binary brl-cad that complains and it should theoretically be good to go |
| 02:53.01 | brlcad | do you still have the binary installed? |
| 02:54.19 | BrownBear | i have it untarred, but i was under the impression that all one needed to do was copy the usr/brlcad directory over to /usr/bin then export PATH........ |
| 02:54.34 | brlcad | not exactly |
| 02:54.52 | brlcad | you copy the usr/brlcad dir to /usr/. (so you end up with /usr/brlcad) |
| 02:55.07 | brlcad | then add /usr/brlcad/bin to your PATH |
| 02:55.40 | brlcad | adding it to your path is actually optional - you can directly run apps by specifying the full path, e.g. /usr/brlcad/bin/mged |
| 02:55.56 | BrownBear | roger |
| 02:56.06 | brlcad | if you have it untarred, what does this report: nm usr/brlcad/bin/mged |
| 02:56.09 | BrownBear | and when i do that, out comes "can not open shared library...." blah blah |
| 02:56.27 | brlcad | it will not run until it is installed correctly into /usr/brlcad |
| 02:56.55 | brlcad | (i.e. you cannot run it from usr/brlcad (note the lack of the root /) |
| 02:57.21 | BrownBear | the nm usr/brlcad/bin/mged command spits out lots and lots and lots of stuff |
| 02:57.37 | brlcad | can you paste it to pastebin? |
| 02:57.52 | brlcad | ~pastebin |
| 02:57.59 | ibot | hmm... pastebin is a place to paste your stuff without flooding the channel - try http://pastebin.com/ (BROKEN AND SUCKING NUTS), or http://pastebin.ca, or http://channels.debian.net/paste, or for #oe use http://oe.pastebin.com, or http://bzflag.pastebin.ca/, or http://paste.lisp.org/ for the lisp/scheme nuts, or http://paste-it.net |
| 03:03.38 | brlcad | no luck? |
| 03:03.57 | BrownBear | http://bzflag.pastebin.ca/141756 |
| 03:04.02 | BrownBear | responding kinda slow |
| 03:04.35 | brlcad | gah, i meand ldd, not nm :) |
| 03:05.49 | BrownBear | i thought 2000 lines was a little too much, but who knows.... :) |
| 03:06.43 | BrownBear | http://bzflag.pastebin.ca/141767 |
| 03:07.43 | brlcad | that looks mostly good .. try installing it .. rm -rf /usr/brlcad && mv usr/brlcad /usr/brlcad |
| 03:08.13 | brlcad | then run ldd /usr/brlcad/bin/mged |
| 03:09.10 | BrownBear | shoudl it be in /usr/brlcad or /usr/bin/brlcad, or does it matter? |
| 03:09.54 | brlcad | it does matter |
| 03:09.58 | brlcad | /usr/brlcad |
| 03:10.19 | brlcad | just like how you have /usr/X11R6 and /usr/local ... this is /usr/brlcad |
| 03:10.31 | brlcad | and each of those has a bin inside |
| 03:10.33 | CIA-11 | BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/ (6 files in 2 dirs): s/RT_RESOURCE_CHECK/RT_CK_RESOURCE/g .. we really don't need two macros that do the exact same check. consolidate to just one sans a deprecation warning, using the prevalent CK convention instead. |
| 03:15.02 | BrownBear | looks just about the same, http://bzflag.pastebin.ca/141774 |
| 03:15.41 | BrownBear | actually, no it doesn't |
| 03:15.42 | brlcad | not at all the same |
| 03:15.44 | BrownBear | looks much better |
| 03:15.47 | brlcad | that's fully resolved |
| 03:15.49 | brlcad | it should run |
| 03:16.14 | brlcad | /usr/brlcad/bin/mged |
| 03:16.21 | brlcad | OR |
| 03:16.27 | brlcad | export PATH=/usr/brlcad/bin:$PATH |
| 03:16.28 | brlcad | mged |
| 03:16.55 | BrownBear | ah, so close |
| 03:16.57 | BrownBear | export PATH=/usr/brlcad/bin:$PATH |
| 03:17.08 | BrownBear | well, that's not at all what I meant to post |
| 03:17.16 | BrownBear | nathaniel@debian:/usr/brlcad$ error getting working directory name: no such file or directory |
| 03:17.17 | BrownBear | MGED Aborted. |
| 03:17.46 | BrownBear | there it is |
| 03:17.51 | BrownBear | i was still in the /usr/bin directory |
| 03:18.05 | BrownBear | wow cool, it is actually running |
| 03:18.11 | BrownBear | thank you so very much brlcad |
| 03:18.52 | brlcad | no problem, glad to hear it's working |
| 03:19.04 | BrownBear | i've been waiting to try this for months |
| 03:19.27 | brlcad | you've found the tutorials, quick reference sheets, and other materials on brlcad.org already I hope? |
| 03:19.31 | BrownBear | are you a maintainer of the brlcad software/sourceforge sites? |
| 03:19.35 | BrownBear | yes i have |
| 03:19.37 | BrownBear | thank you |
| 03:19.45 | brlcad | if your interested in getting involved in the project, we're always looking for help ;) |
| 03:19.52 | brlcad | yeah, I'm the lead dev |
| 03:20.14 | BrownBear | i don't know anything about programming, but i think i have some good notes on why this wouldn't work for me <all my own ignorance, as usual> |
| 03:20.34 | BrownBear | i could write them up and submit them to you or whomever it would be appropriate |
| 03:20.49 | brlcad | that would be great |
| 03:20.55 | BrownBear | maybe it could help other people, since i've seen this linking issue with the binaries talked about before on the help site |
| 03:21.24 | brlcad | even negative criticism if it can be worded in some useful/directional/productive manner is highly appreciated |
| 03:22.13 | BrownBear | was this the software once used at FMC for the Bradley? |
| 03:22.24 | brlcad | the more involved helping design and steer its development, the better imho |
| 03:22.51 | brlcad | FMC? |
| 03:23.04 | brlcad | something? materiel command |
| 03:23.19 | brlcad | it was heavily used on the bradley |
| 03:24.10 | brlcad | it's still the definitive cad system in production use for vulnerability and lethality analysis, used by the tri-service community as part of a JTCG directive |
| 03:24.12 | BrownBear | FMC was Farm Machinery Corporation, they made the M2 and M3 Bradleys for years before being bought by United Defense LLP, which was recently bought by BAE Systems |
| 03:25.05 | brlcad | ahh, united defense |
| 03:25.53 | BrownBear | My dad has been working ont he M3 program since I was a little one |
| 03:26.09 | brlcad | yes, it was .. though there are other models of the bradley out there for different purposes .. manufacturing and analyses being the predominant two that come to mind -- brl-cad models are generally heavily focused on the analytic side |
| 03:26.09 | BrownBear | guess it's been about 24/25 years now |
| 03:26.30 | brlcad | brl-cad's been under development for about that long ;-) |
| 03:49.05 | *** join/#brlcad xipponk (n=knoppix@130.184.211.63) | |
| 03:49.23 | xipponk | does brlcad not have a drawing/cad interface? |
| 03:49.51 | brlcad | xipponk: minimal 2D support via a sketch primitive |
| 03:50.16 | xipponk | what's it called? |
| 03:50.17 | brlcad | you can generate unannotated hidden-line images very easily |
| 03:50.36 | brlcad | example: http://ftp.brlcad.org/images/havoc_rtedge.png |
| 03:50.41 | brlcad | what's what called? |
| 03:51.12 | brlcad | brl-cad supports a variety of primitives, http://ftp.brlcad.org/tmp/primitives/Primitives3_grouped_labels.png |
| 03:51.44 | brlcad | one of them is a sketch, a 2D outline of a shape -- the mged solid modeler has a relatively simple interface for creating and modifying sketch objects |
| 03:51.55 | brlcad | those sketch objects can then be extruded to create solid geometry |
| 03:52.04 | xipponk | cool. |
| 03:52.18 | xipponk | not mucho documentation i'm afraid. |
| 03:52.20 | brlcad | in general, though, that's not the modeling approach used as it is 2D-centric |
| 03:52.47 | BrownBear | solidworks can spoil ya |
| 03:52.50 | brlcad | there's fairly extensive documentation, depends where you're looking and what you're looking for |
| 03:53.09 | xipponk | hehehe |
| 03:53.15 | xipponk | i was looking at the tutorial |
| 03:53.23 | brlcad | BrownBear: that much is true, but then brl-cad's price tag is certainly a little bit better ;) |
| 03:53.54 | BrownBear | true, true |
| 03:54.03 | brlcad | xipponk: i *think* the principles guide might cover sketching |
| 03:54.33 | brlcad | it really is a minimal inteface though -- doesn't compare in the least to even something like qcad |
| 03:55.20 | BrownBear | i found qcad to be slow, and buggy |
| 03:55.38 | brlcad | that primitive mostly exists to support models that are imported from 2D based packages (e.g. autocad, or the 2D variety in packages like unigraphics) |
| 03:55.57 | brlcad | so that they can be manipulated, visualized, etc |
| 03:56.30 | brlcad | creating one from scratch using brl-cad existing sketch editor is not something I'd want to do myself |
| 03:57.01 | xipponk | how do you go about it then, brlcad? |
| 03:57.12 | brlcad | we focus mostly on the 3D aspects, on numerical stability, on ray-trace/analysis performance, etc |
| 03:57.13 | xipponk | i was wondering if i could export qcad sketches to brlcad |
| 03:57.33 | brlcad | qcad exports dxf, brl-cad has a dxf-g importer |
| 03:57.56 | brlcad | it should preserve the 2D sketches if they are well formed |
| 03:58.03 | xipponk | okay. |
| 03:58.18 | xipponk | i thought it might be a nice shortcut :D |
| 03:58.38 | brlcad | we don't get that request very often, though, so consider it non-stable |
| 03:59.24 | xipponk | <PROTECTED> |
| 03:59.49 | brlcad | we generally go about it by constructing in 3D, not 2D -- usually focus on CSG models combining the base primitives to form shapes, assemble those into regions/parts and those parts into groups/assemblies |
| 04:00.21 | xipponk | through the mged commandprompt right? |
| 04:01.04 | brlcad | command prompt, outboard tools assist certain complex operations, the gui and menus provide a lot of functionality |
| 04:01.44 | xipponk | outboard tools? |
| 04:01.47 | xipponk | i must be missing something. |
| 04:01.50 | brlcad | it's not a discoverable interface, users are traditionally trained before they can use the modeler (as one usually is to touch unigraphics/proe/solidworks/etc) |
| 04:02.19 | brlcad | you're probably reading docs on mged.. brl-cad is a system, mged is but one of over 400 tools |
| 04:02.19 | xipponk | oh i see. |
| 04:02.44 | brlcad | mind you, mged is one of the most useful/prominent right now, and is the primary gui solid modeling interface |
| 04:03.02 | brlcad | but there are other facilities and tools too that focus on specific tasks |
| 04:03.54 | brlcad | example model built entirely out of CSG operations on primitives, http://ftp.brlcad.org/images/t62c.jpg |
| 04:04.24 | xipponk | hmm. |
| 04:04.28 | xipponk | that doesn't look simple. |
| 04:05.19 | brlcad | you wouldn't be able to approach a task like that tank without several weeks of brl-cad training, and the modeling effort would still take you a couple weeks.. that's a fairly highly detailed model |
| 04:05.36 | xipponk | ye gads. |
| 04:05.37 | brlcad | includes everything inside too, not just the pretty outside |
| 04:05.48 | xipponk | and all this done through the mged interface? |
| 04:05.55 | brlcad | as well as the terrain and other volumetric effects |
| 04:07.10 | brlcad | not all through mged, but probably 90% .. the tracks were modeled using another tool that helps replicate objects along a spline |
| 04:07.35 | brlcad | i'm sure the terrain was processed using a couple other data manipulation tools in brl-cad and then read in by mged |
| 04:07.45 | brlcad | everything else was though |
| 04:07.55 | xipponk | interesting. |
| 04:08.43 | brlcad | describing the material properties, the colors, the construction hierarchy, how to compose primitives into things that look like wheels and turrets, and hulls, etc |
| 04:09.16 | xipponk | the mged file for that. .. |
| 04:09.19 | xipponk | where do i find it? |
| 04:09.28 | brlcad | not public releasable, sorry |
| 04:09.35 | brlcad | wish I could actually |
| 04:09.45 | xipponk | ah it's actual brl/arl material? |
| 04:10.09 | brlcad | I've been trying to get release approval for one of the air force models of a russian tank that is just splendidly beautiful, but not getting too far there |
| 04:10.21 | brlcad | that one, yes |
| 04:10.29 | brlcad | the image is releasable, though ;-) |
| 04:10.52 | xipponk | <PROTECTED> |
| 04:10.59 | xipponk | the image ... is a tease! |
| 04:11.07 | brlcad | heh, yep |
| 04:11.22 | brlcad | that helicopter in the first image is in the distribution |
| 04:11.36 | brlcad | that's a real model of a russian attack helicopter, albeit slightly dumbed down |
| 04:11.53 | brlcad | s/slightly// |
| 04:12.30 | xipponk | slightly? |
| 04:12.52 | xipponk | it's missing the cannons? |
| 04:13.25 | brlcad | lets just say that it probably doesn't have as much detail as the real deal, but it's still a rather nice model to play with |
| 04:15.45 | brlcad | welp, I must depart .. if you have a question just post and lurk and someone should eventually respond -- cheers |
| 04:16.22 | xipponk | thanks man. |
| 04:25.21 | IriX64 | nice tank, and the conversation explains why I test with other peoples ms april.g files (read im not brlcad trained :)) |
| 04:29.13 | IriX64 | c2-cray-unicos-g++ <----get real :) |
| 04:30.50 | IriX64 | he rolled the dice, and tada a pair of 7's came up ;) |
| 04:32.24 | IriX64 | 12:30am and i'm talking to my self again, i'll probably spend time in the brig for this. |
| 04:51.44 | BrownBear | say i want to open up and view ktank.g in the db/ folder, how would i do that instead of doing draw part1, draw part2, etc....? |
| 05:33.44 | IriX64 | load it and do a tops then e "something" |
| 05:34.00 | IriX64 | in mged |
| 06:28.27 | IriX64 | ``Erik: c2 build done. |
| 06:33.16 | IriX64 | ValarQ: I hope you're awake. |
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| 07:29.35 | ``Erik | BrownBear: ktank is weird in that there is no toplevelg grouping... it's easy to make one, though, "g all.g u tank u g17 u computer u engine" I think should do it |
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| 01:56.23 | CIA-11 | BRL-CAD: 03johnranderson * 10brlcad/src/ (tclscripts/helplib.tcl librt/wdb_obj.c): |
| 01:56.23 | CIA-11 | BRL-CAD: Modified wdb_tree_cmd() and wdb_print_node() to provide the capabilities |
| 01:56.23 | CIA-11 | BRL-CAD: the help command cliams for the "tree" command. Also modified the |
| 01:56.24 | CIA-11 | BRL-CAD: helplib entry so that it agrees with the help message. This fixes bug |
| 01:56.24 | CIA-11 | BRL-CAD: #1480522. |
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| 05:33.51 | IriX64 | BrownBear: did you get it working? |
| 05:35.14 | IriX64 | a little delayed... x86_64-me-gnu (certainly) ;) |
| 05:36.53 | IriX64 | general question, why does freebsd not use .exe? |
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| 07:41.14 | IriX64 | anybody awake? |
| 07:44.34 | ValarQ | i am |
| 07:44.55 | ValarQ | why the heck are you cutting all your screenshots?!? |
| 07:45.16 | IriX64 | explain cutting. |
| 07:45.28 | IriX64 | you mean cutting off? |
| 07:45.39 | IriX64 | or sending to you? |
| 07:46.24 | ValarQ | i mean that the shots isn't complete screenshots |
| 07:46.38 | ValarQ | the right edge has been cut in almost every shot |
| 07:46.45 | IriX64 | dont know how to drive 5-clicks very well yet. |
| 07:47.16 | ValarQ | take shot25.jpg for example |
| 07:47.24 | IriX64 | just a sec. |
| 07:47.28 | ValarQ | i guess your screenresolution is 1024x768 |
| 07:47.35 | ValarQ | but the image is only 937x725 |
| 07:48.52 | IriX64 | function of the 5-click program. |
| 07:49.53 | ValarQ | ok, i recomend imagemagick for taking screenshots |
| 07:50.10 | IriX64 | i *bought 5-clicks :) |
| 07:50.22 | ValarQ | bad for you :P |
| 07:50.27 | IriX64 | cheap tho. :) |
| 07:51.05 | IriX64 | installing linux64 brlcad. |
| 07:51.07 | ValarQ | i got imagemagick for free with my internetconnection :) |
| 07:51.30 | IriX64 | heh yeah but your in ther land of milk and honey :) |
| 07:51.52 | ValarQ | yep |
| 07:52.02 | ValarQ | no reason not to :o) |
| 07:52.12 | ValarQ | (not for me anyway) |
| 07:52.34 | IriX64 | honey is a state of fluidity ;) |
| 07:53.27 | ValarQ | have you tested XGL? |
| 07:53.42 | IriX64 | XGL? |
| 07:53.49 | IriX64 | obviously not. |
| 07:53.57 | IriX64 | :) |
| 07:54.48 | ValarQ | it's a new fancy X11 server that uses OpenGL as backend |
| 07:55.56 | IriX64 | I have an xwingl that i play with. |
| 07:56.01 | IriX64 | xwingl |
| 07:56.17 | IriX64 | doesnt look right in lower case :) |
| 07:56.56 | ValarQ | http://www.novell.com/linux/xglrelease/ <- contains some interesting videos |
| 07:58.09 | IriX64 | thankyou ill go visit. |
| 08:08.40 | IriX64 | interesting, dunno what all the files mean tho. |
| 08:09.35 | ValarQ | what files? |
| 08:11.27 | IriX64 | wanted the source tarball didnt know which one it is *shrug* |
| 08:12.00 | ValarQ | ok, you should probably look for some install instructions for your system |
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| 08:12.44 | ValarQ | http://gentoo-wiki.com/HOWTO_XGL if you use gentoo for example |
| 08:12.55 | IriX64 | in time :) |
| 08:13.20 | ValarQ | yeah, i didn't expect you to install it right away |
| 08:17.21 | IriX64 | heh thank you for understanding as bartles and james would say ;) |
| 08:19.26 | IriX64 | you like gentoo don't you? |
| 08:20.15 | ValarQ | yeah, gentoo works great |
| 08:20.54 | IriX64 | supports all your hardware (I hate driver hell)? |
| 08:21.38 | ValarQ | well, i use the linux kernel, so yes |
| 08:22.21 | IriX64 | linux-gnu then? |
| 08:22.25 | ValarQ | yeah |
| 08:22.36 | IriX64 | 64 bit? |
| 08:22.39 | ValarQ | yes |
| 08:22.43 | ValarQ | AMD64 X2 |
| 08:23.06 | IriX64 | AMD64 3800+ |
| 08:23.09 | ValarQ | 4400+ here |
| 08:23.19 | IriX64 | show off :) |
| 08:23.29 | ValarQ | it's a real monster :) |
| 08:23.46 | IriX64 | careful it doesn't bite ;) |
| 08:24.32 | ValarQ | it only bites scriptkiddies :o) |
| 08:24.50 | IriX64 | ouch it just bit me :) |
| 08:26.40 | IriX64 | farg it i'll let brlcad fix it ;) |
| 08:27.02 | IriX64 | my bug that is the other i'll just get a band aid :) |
| 08:31.53 | clock_ | what's a band aid? |
| 08:37.59 | IriX64 | the concert they held for 3rd world countries :P |
| 08:39.42 | IriX64 | what's your "Heavy Fuel"? |
| 08:41.33 | IriX64 | I mean what make you run "cool" ? |
| 08:41.58 | IriX64 | obviously im listening to music here. |
| 08:42.02 | IriX64 | :) |
| 08:42.09 | IriX64 | makes me think. |
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| 11:34.09 | brlcad | fix what? |
| 11:56.12 | ``Erik | `/det |
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| 15:36.40 | brlcad | hmm.. so what sounds better for separating out the newer run-time library downloads from the rest of the regular release downloads? |
| 15:37.08 | brlcad | "BRL-CAD Runtime Libraries" or "BRL-CAD Development Kits" or "BRL-CAD Runtime Kits", etc |
| 15:37.49 | brlcad | example, under windows, there is a download that is just a single brlcad.dll for windows with associated documentation |
| 15:38.10 | brlcad | having that in the "BRL-CAD for Windows" is causing way too many problems |
| 15:49.57 | clock_ | BRLCAD Visual Builder ;-) |
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| 18:36.21 | CIA-11 | BRL-CAD: 03bob1961 * 10brlcad/src/tclscripts/lib/Dm.tcl: If on Windows, change default display manager type to wgl instead of ogl. |
| 18:58.56 | CIA-11 | BRL-CAD: 03bob1961 * 10brlcad/src/libdm/dm-wgl.c: Removed call to Tk_IsMapped (i.e. it was being called with a Display pointer instead of a Tk_Window. Also added code to provide an option to color back facing polgons differently than front facing ones. |
| 19:11.04 | CIA-11 | BRL-CAD: 03bob1961 * 10brlcad/src/tclscripts/archer/Archer.tcl: Added the option to effectively toggle two sided lighting. Added a -noWaitCursor option to the draw method. |
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| 19:42.10 | CIA-11 | BRL-CAD: 03bob1961 * 10brlcad/src/archer/ (archer archer.bat): Added code to handle an argument. |
| 19:44.41 | CIA-11 | BRL-CAD: 03bob1961 * 10brlcad/src/libtclcad/tkImgFmtPIX.c: Include fb.h |
| 19:47.49 | CIA-11 | BRL-CAD: 03bob1961 * 10brlcad/misc/win32-msvc7/librt/librt.vcproj: Added g_metaball.c to the build. |
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| 20:39.18 | CIA-11 | BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/libtclcad/Makefile.am: libtclcad depends on libfb for tkImgFmtPIX fb_() image sizing functions |
| 20:42.22 | CIA-11 | BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/NEWS: added archer geometry/view loading via command-line arg |
| 21:18.39 | CIA-11 | BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/libdm/query.c: oops, declare dpy as a Display |
| 21:19.35 | CIA-11 | BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/libdm/ (dm-X.c dm-glx.c dm-ogl.c dm-tk.c dm-wgl.c): Tk_IsMapped takes a tkwin, not a Display, so give it what it wants for the sanity check. add another for the mainwindow too even. |
| 21:29.45 | CIA-11 | BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/NEWS: john fixed the tree command so that it now matches the documentation, by adding support for -i and -o. this fixes sf bug 1480522 'Tree cmd not accepting args' as reported by david lowman. |
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| 00:08.40 | BrownBear | q |
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| 01:49.50 | CIA-11 | BRL-CAD: 03lbutler * 10brlcad/src/libbu/malloc.c: |
| 01:49.50 | CIA-11 | BRL-CAD: bu_prmem() was printing the number of available slots in the memory debug |
| 01:49.50 | CIA-11 | BRL-CAD: table. This was easily mis-interpreted as the number of memory allocations. |
| 01:49.50 | CIA-11 | BRL-CAD: Since this is a diagnostic for how the memory debug table is being manipulated |
| 01:49.50 | CIA-11 | BRL-CAD: and not something the average user/programmer wants to see, the value |
| 01:49.52 | CIA-11 | BRL-CAD: was removed from bu_prmem()'s output. Minor benefit: The table now prints |
| 01:49.54 | CIA-11 | BRL-CAD: one less line, so output is more compact. |
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| 14:53.42 | CIA-9 | BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/libdm/dm-pex.c: missed pex interface, use xtkwin insted of dpy with Tk_IsMapped() |
| 15:35.31 | CIA-9 | BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/tclscripts/archer/.cvsignore: ignore the auto-generated files so they aren't accidentally committed to cvs |
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| 18:47.50 | IriX64 | brlcad: question, are adrt and x11 mutually exclusive? |
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| 20:52.38 | ``Erik | adrt uses SDL, it should work fine with x11 |
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| 21:18.48 | ``Erik | http://www.libsdl.org |
| 21:20.27 | IriX64 | thenk yeah. :) |
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| 23:23.22 | IriX64 | ``Erik sdl install blew up on me :) |
| 23:23.22 | IriX64 | but thanks. |
| 23:23.23 | brlcad | adrt has nothing to do with the x11 detection |
| 23:23.23 | brlcad | relies upon successful detection of sdl and python |
| 23:23.23 | IriX64 | but it *wants sdl and python. |
| 23:23.23 | IriX64 | whoa mind reader :) |
| 23:23.40 | ``Erik | heh |
| 23:23.44 | ``Erik | why are you looking at adrt? |
| 23:23.49 | brlcad | even after detecting sdl and python, it's not likely going to compile without manual massaging and build fixing |
| 23:24.21 | ``Erik | in like six months, adrt will be superceded, hopefully |
| 23:24.21 | IriX64 | by? |
| 23:24.21 | ``Erik | which is why I've psent the last two days in all-day meetings and will spend tomorrow there, too |
| 23:24.21 | ``Erik | uh, it doesn't have an official name yet |
| 23:24.42 | IriX64 | ok |
| 23:24.47 | ``Erik | since you don't know what adrt is about, telling you anything about this new project would be useless for you |
| 23:24.53 | ``Erik | trust me, don't bust your nuts over adrt just yet |
| 23:24.53 | IriX64 | truvth ;) |
| 23:24.59 | pra5ad | did the interactive rt presentation continue today? |
| 23:25.19 | ``Erik | um, it was a recap of yesterdays material, for eds benefit |
| 23:25.32 | pra5ad | nm then |
| 23:25.42 | ``Erik | and mal showed us some of his stuff running on a sempron 1.6ghz |
| 23:26.12 | ``Erik | got like ~3fps on the bigassed cathedral model |
| 23:26.13 | pra5ad | dammit |
| 23:26.16 | ``Erik | and a couple fps on an m1 with several colored lights |
| 23:26.17 | pra5ad | the force told me that i had missed something |
| 23:26.18 | ``Erik | but in the very near future, I can show you that |
| 23:26.19 | pra5ad | k |
| 23:36.46 | ``Erik | we got a cvs repo set up for it today, tomorrow we should have the code in the repo and my automake stuff bolted in |
| 23:36.48 | ``Erik | MAYBE we'll have it working on a non-linux/amd64 arch |
| 23:36.49 | ``Erik | or maybe I'll just have to find that leenewx amd64 box we have somewhere :) |
| 23:36.57 | pra5ad | it's with tegt |
| 23:36.59 | pra5ad | the dual opt |
| 23:37.00 | ``Erik | I doubt he'd be upset if we came over to run a program on his box |
| 23:37.04 | ``Erik | supposedly it works on ia32 leenewx |
| 23:37.06 | pra5ad | i doubt he's using it at all |
| 23:37.07 | ``Erik | maybe he shoved it in the office of someone who pissed him off... |
| 23:37.08 | ``Erik | space heater that sounds like a fucking military jet, hehehehe |
| 23:37.11 | pra5ad | where the hell is the fedex distro center around here |
| 23:37.13 | pra5ad | missed a package |
| 23:37.18 | pra5ad | can i go pick it up now? |
| 23:37.38 | ``Erik | um, the closest fedex point last I heard was way down in like essex off of 40 |
| 23:37.40 | ``Erik | that day you got in the wreck, I had to drive down there to pick up some important documents |
| 23:37.42 | ``Erik | with all the stoplights out |
| 23:37.43 | ``Erik | :( |
| 23:37.43 | pra5ad | tracking says it came from white marsh |
| 23:37.48 | ``Erik | um, meh, it was off of 40 |
| 23:37.50 | ``Erik | and way way way sotuh |
| 23:37.51 | pra5ad | er what wreck |
| 23:37.51 | ``Erik | it might've technically been whitemarsh |
| 23:37.53 | ``Erik | your old car? no? |
| 23:38.03 | pra5ad | 5/2004? |
| 23:38.03 | ``Erik | yeah |
| 23:38.07 | pra5ad | when i wasn't working at arl? |
| 23:38.09 | ``Erik | o.O |
| 23:38.09 | ``Erik | I think it was '04 |
| 23:38.11 | ``Erik | in hurricane season |
| 23:38.11 | ``Erik | you whacked your car on 40, right? |
| 23:38.14 | pra5ad | oh |
| 23:38.15 | pra5ad | nah, near college park |
| 23:38.17 | ``Erik | oh, shit, power musta been out everywhere |
| 23:38.18 | pra5ad | prolly |
| 23:38.18 | ``Erik | cuz there was a harsh hurrican cutting through and I had to drive down 40 to get the thing from the fedex station in time |
| 23:38.19 | pra5ad | 2 girls had their car slammed against one of the bldgs |
| 23:38.20 | pra5ad | both died |
| 23:38.20 | pra5ad | sisters too :( |
| 23:38.22 | ``Erik | :/ |
| 23:38.25 | ``Erik | it'd be nice if this country weren't so car-centric. |
| 23:38.49 | ``Erik | if I could take light rail to work, I SO would |
| 23:38.49 | pra5ad | if i moved to dc, i would be able to |
| 23:38.49 | pra5ad | of course that means i'd have to get up at 5 |
| 23:38.49 | pra5ad | which is a no no |
| 23:38.49 | dtidrow_work | heh |
| 23:38.49 | ``Erik | hahaha |
| 23:38.49 | ``Erik | 5 is the time to go to sleep, dude |
| 23:38.50 | pra5ad | exactly |
| 23:38.50 | pra5ad | Aug 23, 2006 10:29 AM |
| 23:38.50 | pra5ad | <PROTECTED> |
| 23:38.50 | pra5ad | <PROTECTED> |
| 23:38.50 | pra5ad | <PROTECTED> |
| 23:38.50 | pra5ad | <PROTECTED> |
| 23:38.50 | pra5ad | <PROTECTED> |
| 23:38.51 | pra5ad | <PROTECTED> |
| 23:38.51 | pra5ad | <PROTECTED> |
| 23:38.53 | pra5ad | <PROTECTED> |
| 23:38.53 | pra5ad | <PROTECTED> |
| 23:38.53 | pra5ad | <PROTECTED> |
| 23:38.54 | pra5ad | <PROTECTED> |
| 23:38.55 | pra5ad | <PROTECTED> |
| 23:38.55 | pra5ad | <PROTECTED> |
| 23:42.21 | pra5ad | <PROTECTED> |
| 23:42.22 | ``Erik | fedex's website has a listing of locations |
| 23:42.22 | pra5ad | <PROTECTED> |
| 23:42.23 | pra5ad | <PROTECTED> |
| 23:42.23 | pra5ad | <PROTECTED> |
| 23:42.25 | pra5ad | <PROTECTED> |
| 23:42.28 | pra5ad | <PROTECTED> |
| 23:42.28 | pra5ad | <PROTECTED> |
| 23:42.30 | pra5ad | doh! |
| 23:42.31 | pra5ad | sorry for the spam |
| 23:42.32 | ``Erik | look up the facility, see if they're open, call 'em to see if they have your package... drive like the wind o.O |
| 23:43.07 | pra5ad | why dont they have a damn system which tells u were the package is |
| 23:43.10 | pra5ad | online |
| 23:43.21 | ``Erik | erm, the tracking thing kinda does |
| 23:43.44 | dtidrow_work | heh - it should display the gps coords of the truck so you can go and find it ;-) |
| 23:43.46 | pra5ad | YES! |
| 23:43.50 | dtidrow_work | with real-time updates :-) |
| 23:43.50 | ``Erik | hm, yeah, so robbers can intercept the trucks easier? |
| 23:43.56 | ``Erik | :) |
| 23:44.01 | dtidrow_work | of course |
| 23:44.04 | ``Erik | or the buzzword of the day, tarrsts |
| 23:44.06 | ``Erik | we're fighting a WAR on TAR, damnit!!! |
| 23:44.10 | ``Erik | heh |
| 23:44.14 | dtidrow_work | tar as in the command? |
| 23:44.15 | ``Erik | no, the roof goup |
| 23:44.15 | ``Erik | goop |
| 23:44.17 | dtidrow_work | ah |
| 23:44.18 | ``Erik | tar rhymes with jar, and the gov't seems to be looking to suck java's dick lately. :( |
| 23:44.21 | ``Erik | for "portability". |
| 23:44.29 | dtidrow_work | now now... |
| 23:44.30 | ``Erik | *grouse* |
| 23:44.43 | dtidrow_work | would you rather have C#? |
| 23:44.49 | ``Erik | hah.. I'd rather not have mono, thank you very much :) |
| 23:45.02 | ``Erik | keep your herpes to yourself :) |
| 23:45.19 | dtidrow_work | lol |
| 23:45.20 | dtidrow_work | I trust M$ to fsck up C# if mono makes a big enough dent |
| 23:45.20 | ``Erik | like j++? |
| 23:45.21 | dtidrow_work | exactly |
| 23:45.22 | ``Erik | and in 20 years, dotgnu will almost be ready to start, uh, somoething |
| 23:45.27 | ``Erik | but only support hurd |
| 23:45.27 | dtidrow_work | rofl |
| 23:45.32 | ``Erik | which will almost be ready to start, uh, something |
| 23:45.35 | dtidrow_work | they'll be starting to start ;-) |
| 23:45.40 | ``Erik | aawwwww yyyyyeeeeeaaaaaaaahhhhhhhhhh |
| 23:46.11 | pra5ad | gah |
| 00:01.56 | pra5ad | it's next to the mall |
| 00:01.56 | pra5ad | can only pick it up friday |
| 00:02.04 | pra5ad | bastards |
| 00:02.05 | ``Erik | is it right off of 40? |
| 00:02.05 | ``Erik | mebbe I didn't drive as far sotuh as I thought |
| 00:02.05 | dtidrow_work | what's in the package? |
| 00:02.06 | pra5ad | well it's on 7 |
| 00:02.25 | pra5ad | so yes, close to 40 |
| 00:02.25 | ``Erik | his authentic swedish penis pump. |
| 00:02.31 | dtidrow_work | roflol |
| 00:02.31 | pra5ad | swedish? pff |
| 00:02.39 | pra5ad | swahilian |
| 00:02.40 | ``Erik | hah |
| 00:02.40 | ``Erik | it was an austin powers reference, twat :D |
| 00:02.40 | ``Erik | cuz I'm hip and modern, baybee, yeaaahhhh |
| 00:02.41 | ``Erik | *dance* |
| 00:02.41 | ``Erik | day long meetings fuck with my brain. |
| 00:02.42 | dtidrow_work | you still have a brain afterwards? |
| 00:02.43 | ``Erik | yes |
| 00:02.43 | ``Erik | I pickle it in the evenings :) |
| 00:02.50 | ``Erik | and this was the second full day |
| 00:02.50 | ``Erik | tomorrow is the last full day |
| 00:02.54 | dtidrow_work | ouch |
| 00:02.57 | pra5ad | that's what was inside sean's picked jar |
| 00:02.57 | pra5ad | pickle |
| 00:03.04 | dtidrow_work | 3 days of meetings? eeeek |
| 00:03.19 | ``Erik | and I've lived in japan and korea, I usually gross poeple out with what I've eaten! :D |
| 00:04.38 | ``Erik | computer designed diesel car hit 328mph, neat |
| 00:06.11 | ``Erik | and 350 the next day |
| 00:06.41 | dtidrow_work | is that the Audi that ran at Le Mans? |
| 00:06.44 | ``Erik | heh, no, custom job, completely computer controlled |
| 00:06.44 | dtidrow_work | got a link for it? |
| 00:06.45 | ``Erik | slashdot.org |
| 00:06.45 | dtidrow_work | ah |
| 00:06.45 | ``Erik | and the stock m3 romped a stock v8 audi r4 on a straight run, so nyah |
| 00:12.56 | ``Erik | v8 and 4wd wasn't nuff :D |
| 00:13.06 | dtidrow_work | http://www.audi.com/audi/com/en1/experience/motorsport/Audi_R10_TDI.html - here's the one I was thinking of |
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| 00:13.14 | ``Erik | hehehe |
| 00:13.14 | ``Erik | not a street car |
| 00:45.08 | CIA-9 | BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/ (include/raytrace.h src/librt/db_comb.c src/librt/tcl.c): (log message trimmed) |
| 00:45.09 | CIA-9 | BRL-CAD: Consistently use integers instead of shorts for the region id, air code, GIFT |
| 00:45.09 | CIA-9 | BRL-CAD: material code, and los value for the rt_comb_internal structure. region ids are |
| 00:45.11 | CIA-9 | BRL-CAD: already handled almost entirely as integers throughout the code, but the usage |
| 00:45.12 | CIA-9 | BRL-CAD: of shorts in the comb structure seems to be a carry-over from prior v4 format |
| 00:45.16 | CIA-9 | BRL-CAD: support that was never changed. a review of code seems to indicate that the |
| 00:45.16 | CIA-9 | BRL-CAD: only negative impact should only be rather unsupported behavior if someone |
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| 01:34.03 | kosty | Ping... |
| 01:42.49 | CIA-9 | BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/ (NEWS src/mged/ged.c): ctrl-d on an empty shell line now quits mged like one might expect for an interactive console shell. this addresses sf bug report 1543495. |
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| 02:17.24 | brlcad | kosty: pong |
| 02:36.01 | CIA-9 | BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/mged/ged.c: prevent dereference crash if there is an uninitialized display |
| 02:37.20 | CIA-9 | BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/mged/attach.c: simple infinite loop protection on the attach prompt (it can go into an inf loop on unexpected input (e.g. ctrl-d)). also protect against dereference crashes when there is no display. |
| 03:02.16 | CIA-9 | BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/ (NEWS src/mged/attach.c): prevent infinite loop on classic mged attach prompt. check whether fgets is stuck on EOF so we can cancel the prompt. |
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| 17:02.03 | CIA-9 | BRL-CAD: 03jlowenz * 10brlcad/include/pkg.h: added function prototypes, C linkage wrapper |
| 17:05.51 | CIA-9 | BRL-CAD: 03jlowenz * 10brlcad/src/libpkg/pkg.c: added return from pkg_permserver_ip (oops); made strings const for pkg_open - since they should be... |
| 17:50.13 | CIA-9 | BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/libdm/ (dm-X.c dm-glx.c dm-ogl.c dm-pex.c dm-tk.c dm-wgl.c): |
| 17:50.13 | CIA-9 | BRL-CAD: according to one of the tcl devs (thx jenglish), Tk_IsMapped() is not what we |
| 17:50.13 | CIA-9 | BRL-CAD: should be using to determine if the tkwin is 'valid' .. being 'mapped' |
| 17:50.13 | CIA-9 | BRL-CAD: apparently means that there is a window that has been explicitly mapped via a |
| 17:50.14 | CIA-9 | BRL-CAD: Tk_MapWindow() call or is otherwise fully drawn/displayed. fall back to a |
| 17:50.16 | CIA-9 | BRL-CAD: simple non-null check instead. |
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| 20:52.05 | CIA-9 | BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/libfb/if_remote.c: quell prototype warnings by making the errlog callback function match the signature via a simple passthrough to a rem_log(). |
| 20:55.54 | *** join/#brlcad brlcad (n=sean@bz.bzflag.bz) | |
| 20:56.05 | *** mode/#brlcad [+o brlcad] by ChanServ | |
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| 01:14.33 | CIA-9 | BRL-CAD: 03johnranderson * 10brlcad/src/tclscripts/mged/help.tcl: |
| 01:14.34 | CIA-9 | BRL-CAD: Somewhere along the line "smooth_bot" command got changed to |
| 01:14.34 | CIA-9 | BRL-CAD: "bot_smooth", but the help never got changed. The help now agrees with |
| 01:14.34 | CIA-9 | BRL-CAD: the command. |
| 03:08.36 | IriX64 | is jove still supported? I notice it's gone from the summary printout. |
| 03:10.41 | IriX64 | err never mind :) |
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| 18:44.37 | CIA-9 | BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/sh/tracker.sh: decode the title before printing it to console too |
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| 20:03.18 | IriX64 | ValarQ: it took a long time to put those snapshots together for you, do you like them? ;) |
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| 22:11.59 | CIA-9 | BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/doc/description.txt: add a history section, credit mike of course. cover a little more detail on the languages in use. line count is over a million now. |
| 22:13.11 | CIA-9 | BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/README: line counts are more than a million now |
| 22:22.26 | CIA-9 | BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/doc/pad_file.xml.in: more than a million lines, squeeze in to 2000 chars |
| 22:26.36 | IriX64 | anybody, what version of postscript are we dealing with here? |
| 22:27.38 | IriX64 | and if i redirect to a file can adobe acrobat be used? |
| 22:31.50 | brlcad | should work |
| 22:32.01 | IriX64 | thank you. |
| 22:39.10 | IriX64 | ValarQ: I know, Iknow, send code eh. :) |
| 22:42.42 | IriX64 | png.c: In function 'CommonReadPNG': |
| 22:42.45 | IriX64 | png.c:373: warning: the address of 'png_get_sRGB', will always evaluate as 'true |
| 22:42.59 | IriX64 | for what its worth brlcad. |
| 22:44.33 | brlcad | i don't maintain libpng's code ;) |
| 22:44.47 | IriX64 | understood ;) |
| 22:44.53 | brlcad | we need to update our sources to their recent patch update, it might address that |
| 22:45.09 | IriX64 | agreed. |
| 22:46.50 | brlcad | feel free to download and compile and see ;) |
| 22:46.59 | IriX64 | hahah you too. |
| 22:47.31 | IriX64 | -4 |
| 22:52.01 | IriX64 | add !=NULL you'll be allright. :) |
| 22:52.56 | brlcad | IriX64 = NULL; |
| 22:53.09 | *** join/#brlcad IriX64 (n=IriX64@toronto-HSE-ppp4304081.sympatico.ca) | |
| 22:53.25 | IriX64 | whup wrong key sequence :) |
| 22:59.49 | ``Erik | that's not libpng, is it... that's tkimg... |
| 23:01.05 | IriX64 | png.c forget which one now not othew, the first one you encounter. |
| 23:01.15 | IriX64 | other too. |
| 23:01.22 | IriX64 | already fixed here. |
| 23:02.18 | brlcad | ahh |
| 23:02.30 | brlcad | still not ours to care about if it don't halt the build.. |
| 23:02.42 | brlcad | unless someone wants to provide 'em patches |
| 23:04.02 | IriX64 | maybe ill do that. |
| 23:38.27 | *** join/#brlcad dli (n=dli@nsit-dhcp-035-180.uchicago.edu) | |
| 00:38.14 | brlcad | ``Erik: http://developer.apple.com/technotes/tn2006/tn2161.html |
| 00:58.44 | ``Erik | heh, tell mal, not me :) |
| 01:07.35 | brlcad | ahh, interesting.. apparently this was a recently _dropped_ feature, 4.0.1 gcc on mac disabled it |
| 01:07.57 | brlcad | which means we could have simply selected a different gcc version (several are installed) and moved on |
| 01:08.05 | brlcad | http://lists.apple.com/archives/Xcode-users/2005/Nov/msg00274.html |
| 01:10.46 | ``Erik | that was old ocde that's being thrown away |
| 01:10.54 | ``Erik | the new code compiled fine on my g4 lappie |
| 01:20.24 | IriX64 | patch? for a simple !=NULL? ;) |
| 01:20.50 | IriX64 | the user should do *some work :) |
| 01:23.02 | IriX64 | maybe I should use bu_free() on it ;) |
| 01:24.13 | IriX64 | a friend of mine named sean tells me that code can't possibly work :) |
| 01:25.06 | IriX64 | sigh starting over is hard to do but lets see where cygwin is today. |
| 01:40.22 | IriX64 | gotta reboot. cya |
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| 02:11.53 | Maloeran | Thanks brlcad, Erik forwarded the url :) |
| 02:42.00 | brlcad | np :) |
| 02:44.56 | Maloeran | brlcad, any interest in a bicycle ride tomorrow? I guess you might have replied to Lee's message already |
| 02:45.15 | brlcad | yeah, I just saw it |
| 02:45.32 | brlcad | i normally would, but I have crew practice most all saturday morning |
| 02:46.34 | Maloeran | Ah, unfortunate. All right then |
| 02:46.42 | brlcad | 5am until about 10am, and then I'm usually beat.. |
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| 08:47.52 | UltraMagnus | hi |
| 08:48.38 | UltraMagnus | how do i install brl-cad when it is not in my distro's repositoriese? please, i am kinda new to linux..... |
| 08:49.07 | clock_ | UltraMagnus: download and compile from the sources |
| 08:49.34 | UltraMagnus | clock_: ok, uh, how do i do that? |
| 08:49.49 | clock_ | UltraMagnus: download the .tgz file, unpack and go according to the README |
| 08:49.50 | clock_ | inside |
| 08:50.13 | UltraMagnus | ok, thanks |
| 08:52.34 | UltraMagnus | uhh, i went to "brl-cad" for linux on the brlcad website, and there are 6 differnt files, how do i know what one i need? |
| 08:53.44 | clock_ | UltraMagnus: you need the sources |
| 09:07.40 | brlcad | UltraMagnus: there's basically only three choices -- ia32, ia64, and amd64 (x86_64) |
| 09:08.08 | brlcad | depending on your distribution of linux and your hardware, ia32 may indeed work for you |
| 09:08.20 | UltraMagnus | yeah, i realised that..... i guessed i needed ia32, thanks |
| 09:08.46 | brlcad | otherwise you will need to go to the BRL-CAD Source section and compile the package for your system like clock suggested |
| 09:09.13 | UltraMagnus | oh, so this isnt the sources? |
| 09:10.01 | UltraMagnus | so, what is this i just downloaded then? the....... uh, binary? |
| 09:10.15 | UltraMagnus | what do i need to do with this then? |
| 09:11.01 | brlcad | well, it's a binary for linux that you're downloading |
| 09:11.13 | brlcad | you'll want to follow the instructions in the INSTALL file |
| 09:11.38 | brlcad | which basically amount to copying the usr/brlcad directory in there to /usr/. |
| 09:12.35 | brlcad | i got to run out for a bit.. back in a while if you still need help .. most everything is in the INSTALL file, various sections |
| 09:12.43 | UltraMagnus | where is the install file? |
| 09:13.39 | brlcad | it's in both the source and binary downloads |
| 09:13.49 | brlcad | or go to it directly here: http://brlcad.cvs.sourceforge.net/*checkout*/brlcad/brlcad/INSTALL |
| 09:14.12 | brlcad | good luck, gotta run.. |
| 09:15.09 | UltraMagnus | thanks |
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| 12:33.16 | ``Erik | row row row a boat |
| 12:45.16 | IriX64 | urf, only 120gigs left better clean house :) |
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| 17:37.41 | UltraMagnus | hmm, ok, i have extracted the linux binary, how do i get it to..... uh..... work? |
| 17:42.48 | ``Erik | there should be a brlcad/bin dir with lots of programs, the one you probably want to try running is "mged" |
| 17:45.00 | brlcad | *after* you move that brlcad dir into /usr/. |
| 17:46.29 | UltraMagnus | ok, but how do i add it to my menu? usually i will just use alacarte to add it via the console command, but it currently doesnt have a console command... |
| 17:47.11 | ``Erik | ROW ROW ROW A BOUT |
| 17:47.13 | ``Erik | boat, even |
| 17:47.14 | ``Erik | hehehe |
| 17:47.15 | ``Erik | :D |
| 17:48.02 | ``Erik | UltraMagnus: there's four hundred and something binaries to brlcad, it's a big honkin' suite, not "program" :) |
| 17:49.01 | UltraMagnus | ``Erik: uh, isnt there some sort of unifying program? or something..... |
| 17:50.23 | brlcad | in short - no, though most people jump in and use "mged" for starters as it is a gui application |
| 17:50.37 | brlcad | and has the most extensive documentation, and is a solid modeler, etc |
| 17:51.01 | brlcad | probably the closest to "unifying" that there is for now |
| 17:51.15 | brlcad | still.. before you go adding shortcuts and all, you really should make sure it works |
| 17:52.16 | brlcad | If you installed everything correctly, you should be able to run this and have some windows pop up: |
| 17:52.19 | brlcad | /usr/brlcad/bin/mged |
| 17:52.43 | brlcad | if that works, you can add that as a menu item or shortcut or whatever your heart desires |
| 17:54.47 | CIA-9 | BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/INSTALL: |
| 17:54.47 | CIA-9 | BRL-CAD: more detailed testing section, with details on testing functionality before and |
| 17:54.47 | CIA-9 | BRL-CAD: after installation. also, make the quick instructions be an optimized build. |
| 17:54.47 | CIA-9 | BRL-CAD: give examples on how to provide custom flags during configure and make too. |
| 17:54.53 | brlcad | if that doesn't work typed *exactly* like that, then you've missed some installation step |
| 18:04.03 | UltraMagnus | ok, thanks |
| 18:04.22 | UltraMagnus | thanks everyone for your help! and thanks for putting up with my absolute ignorance! |
| 18:04.30 | UltraMagnus | bye all |
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| 18:14.50 | IriX64 | `Erik... get that boat ashore yet? |
| 18:14.59 | IriX64 | :) |
| 18:15.17 | ``Erik | <-- not the one who was boating |
| 18:15.47 | IriX64 | show.... me that in the backscroll ;) |
| 18:17.35 | IriX64 | my knucles are bleeding slightly from latest cygwin attempt. :) |
| 18:17.41 | IriX64 | knuckles too. |
| 18:18.47 | IriX64 | why cygwin tho when i have redhat 6.0 (Hedwig) running on Twingys vm. |
| 18:19.49 | IriX64 | I'm necient about some things, how do you start the network in RedHat? |
| 18:20.40 | dtidrow | I seem to have had better luck building stuff with mingw than cygwin |
| 18:20.54 | IriX64 | never tried mingw. |
| 18:21.17 | dtidrow | starting the network in RedHat: ifup eth0 |
| 18:21.25 | IriX64 | ty |
| 18:21.44 | dtidrow | do you have it set for dhcp? |
| 18:23.56 | IriX64 | all the defaults for workstation whatever they are. |
| 18:24.18 | IriX64 | comes back ifup <device name> |
| 18:45.46 | brlcad | if only because of the fewer dependencies and licensing details |
| 18:45.57 | brlcad | msys is a nice subset at that too |
| 19:02.17 | Maloeran | You can always pass -mno-cygwin to cygwin, mingw is lacking many packages by default |
| 19:06.37 | ``Erik | <-- does the -mno-cygwin trick when he has to touch that os cuz he likes automake too much... |
| 19:19.05 | brlcad | i like the fact that it's "missing" a lot by default -- I usually want it for minimal build environment, not interactive use |
| 19:22.09 | ``Erik | heh, I just want to take my code developed on bsd or linux, run "configure&&make" and have the .exe to give to winiots... |
| 19:22.20 | ``Erik | not exactly interactive use |
| 19:23.22 | Maloeran | Quite, you at least need Make... unless you want to write out a .bat file or something :) |
| 19:24.34 | brlcad | mingw includes the default build stuff, even msys includes make |
| 19:24.45 | ``Erik | "configure" requires at least a posix shell, though *shrug* |
| 19:24.55 | ``Erik | and nmake is grotesquely differen than unix breed makes |
| 19:25.09 | ``Erik | last I looked, anyways |
| 19:26.52 | brlcad | are we talking about the same thing? last time I checked, mingw/msys provides the shell, make, binutils, autotools, etc |
| 19:28.23 | brlcad | Maloeran: how was the ride? |
| 19:28.47 | ``Erik | but it's been five years, y'know? |
| 19:30.03 | Maloeran | Quite nice, brlcad, the area we went to was surprisingly quiet. As well, Lee isn't in bad shape |
| 19:30.09 | brlcad | msys is supposed to be the bare "mininmal system" subset of mingw that gets a configure script to work (including the implicitly required tools, make, gcc, ld, cat, grep, etc, etc) |
| 19:30.28 | brlcad | Maloeran: really? hmm.. i was just about to ask |
| 19:30.43 | brlcad | if there was any trouble keeping up |
| 19:30.45 | ``Erik | rode around abingdon? |
| 19:30.54 | brlcad | (not you, him) |
| 19:31.21 | Maloeran | He's riding a recumbant so he got some aerodyamic advantage, but it wasn't a problem |
| 19:31.23 | ``Erik | he cheats with that recumbant, though, less air resistance, less full body exercise... |
| 19:32.18 | brlcad | when I've ridden, the aerodynamic advantage hasn't been enough .. |
| 19:32.23 | Maloeran | Eheh :), I of course didn't go as fast as I could, but we kept a reasonable pace |
| 19:32.41 | brlcad | i generally have to hold *waaay* back |
| 19:32.49 | clock_ | wayback machine |
| 19:33.08 | brlcad | not that he can't keep a good pace, just not what I usually go at |
| 19:33.14 | ``Erik | ya shoulda gave it some juice to leave him behind, mal :D I bet that trek would hold itself together for that ;) |
| 19:34.45 | Maloeran | Mmhm :). The pace was reasonable really, I expected worse |
| 19:35.08 | Maloeran | I have friends who certainly ride slower than Lee |
| 19:37.10 | ``Erik | though I'd probably exhaust myself just getting onto it :) |
| 19:37.49 | brlcad | heh |
| 19:37.54 | Maloeran | You should go for a ride with Lee every Saturday morning, that will give you an excellent reason to get in good shape :) |
| 19:38.25 | ``Erik | I can think of better things to do saturday morning |
| 19:39.26 | brlcad | should at least get sam to pay you to go to the gym a couple times a week for a few months |
| 19:39.30 | Maloeran | Being in good shape generally gives you more energy to be more productive in most activities, as well as increasing the life expectancy |
| 19:39.37 | Maloeran | So it's generally a good.. investment |
| 19:39.38 | ``Erik | sam? |
| 19:39.39 | brlcad | or was it just a month? either way.. |
| 19:39.42 | brlcad | uncle sam |
| 19:39.45 | ``Erik | oh |
| 19:39.56 | ``Erik | yeah, one of these days, I'll go to the gym |
| 19:40.06 | ``Erik | I got the one here my hoa pays for, I got to that once every few months |
| 19:40.21 | brlcad | might as well *pay* you to go :) |
| 19:40.27 | ``Erik | but all I do is see what my limits are |
| 19:40.31 | Maloeran | I don't understand that. People travels in their car, but spend hours at the gym. Anyone sees how to combine the two? :) |
| 19:40.53 | brlcad | Maloeran: yeah, live in a city :) |
| 19:40.58 | ``Erik | alexis: when bicycling to work is a possiblity, people around here do it... for many, it's not |
| 19:42.03 | Maloeran | Yes, this area could use some investment for small tracks dedicated to bicycles going between cities... |
| 19:42.11 | Maloeran | or between towns, rather |
| 19:42.19 | ``Erik | cars hitting deer or dogs or cats is a relatively common occurance out here, bicycles aren't TOO terribly different on those roads |
| 19:43.01 | ``Erik | and I'm sure you can appreciate the consequences of a car vs bicycle collision ;) *duck* |
| 19:43.02 | brlcad | i ride quite a bit and have nearly been hit several times just in the past couple years |
| 19:43.15 | ``Erik | like on 40? |
| 19:43.36 | brlcad | 40's actually pretty nice |
| 19:43.45 | Maloeran | I have never been "hit" by a car really. I mostly tend to ram into car doors opening right in front of me |
| 19:43.47 | ``Erik | yeah, straight with nice big shoulders |
| 19:43.54 | brlcad | only have to worry about idiots that try to cause a scare by throwing or yelling something |
| 19:43.56 | ``Erik | hit by, hit a, whatever |
| 19:44.03 | ``Erik | and gravel |
| 19:44.36 | Maloeran | I sure am beginning to miss Montreal's bicycle lanes and roads dedicated to pedestrians and bicycles |
| 19:44.43 | brlcad | i've had a big truck pass me only to make almost an immediate right turn right in front of me (going 25mph mind you) |
| 19:45.21 | Maloeran | Ow. With good brakes, it should still be fine |
| 19:45.22 | brlcad | that was pretty bad.. I barely skidded to a halt within a foot or so of the truck |
| 19:45.31 | ``Erik | there are a couple bike lanes out here, but not enough to make the bicycle a good regular commuter vehicle... and if there's snow, those lanes don't get plowed |
| 19:46.28 | ``Erik | <-- wouldn't rely on a motorcycle out here, either... need something with 4 wheels and a roll cage, protection from the elements is nice, too :/ |
| 19:46.58 | Maloeran | With the kind of temperature you have here, I sure wish my bicycle had air conditionning |
| 19:47.23 | ``Erik | 35c and brutal humidity isn't comfortable for ya? ;) |
| 19:47.30 | brlcad | i like the thrill, flying down a hill at 50mph on my bike is quite a rush... |
| 19:47.56 | Maloeran | No Erik, definitely not :) |
| 19:47.57 | ``Erik | ummm, what did it get up to a couple weeks ago, 46c? |
| 19:48.02 | ``Erik | (115f, right?) |
| 19:48.02 | brlcad | course so are most life-threatening situations |
| 19:48.30 | brlcad | it's not been horribly hot lately |
| 19:48.38 | ``Erik | yeah, the last couple weeks |
| 19:48.39 | brlcad | couple weeks ago was pretty bad |
| 19:48.41 | ``Erik | but we had a front that was rough |
| 19:48.44 | Maloeran | 50mph on a bicycle? I don't think my gears go far enough for that, it's a hybrid |
| 19:49.37 | Maloeran | Unless you meant 50km/h? You sure get some awful air resistance at 50mph |
| 19:49.39 | brlcad | Maloeran: going down a very large hill that has a good 10-20% grade, for almost a mile |
| 19:49.48 | Maloeran | Eheh, I see |
| 19:49.50 | brlcad | nope, mph |
| 19:50.23 | brlcad | quite exhilirating.. the slightest rock or puncture and I would have been launched |
| 19:50.48 | Maloeran | A day or two after some storm or cyclon hit the american east coast, I remember having much fun riding a bicycle in winds of 70km/h |
| 19:51.56 | brlcad | in the fall here, the winds pick up pretty heavy -- only 30-40mph or so, but it's enough to knock you off the bike in a gust if you're not careful |
| 19:52.26 | Maloeran | *nods* That's some powerful wind, yes |
| 19:52.30 | ``Erik | heh, I've watched cars almost blown out of control, too |
| 19:53.32 | ``Erik | suv's seem the worst, large side area, drivers who feel too 'safe' and complacent... ;) |
| 19:53.51 | brlcad | yeah |
| 19:54.10 | ``Erik | (though the minivan that did a few spins behind me in snow was amusing... one fo those blue taxi things) |
| 20:03.46 | Maloeran | Erik, did Lee put the code to read BRL-CAD files in the raytracer cvs or elsewhere? |
| 20:04.03 | Maloeran | Or maybe it just isn't completed yet |
| 20:14.05 | ``Erik | heh, I d'no |
| 20:15.33 | ``Erik | I scrolled back through some history and see no commits from lee in the last few days |
| 20:22.49 | Maloeran | Right, I'm supposed to be reading BRL-CAD geometry by September 1st so I'm wondering |
| 20:25.50 | ``Erik | it's a milestone, not a deadline... |
| 20:26.21 | ``Erik | and if worst comes to worst, you can copy g-stl.c or g-obj.c and alter it to your liking |
| 20:40.42 | IriX64 | bikes? get with with a motor :) |
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| 21:24.03 | ``Erik | http://www.bash.org/?670444 |
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| 12:27.23 | Sarmatian | Hello. |
| 12:28.55 | Sarmatian | ??? |
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| 21:17.27 | IriX64 | whey :) |
| 21:18.01 | IriX64 | my cygwin runs brlcad :) |
| 21:18.05 | IriX64 | finally. |
| 21:18.29 | IriX64 | builds and runs that is. |
| 21:18.58 | brlcad | you were having trouble building under cygwin? |
| 21:21.22 | IriX64 | yes |
| 21:21.53 | IriX64 | fixed now :) |
| 21:22.42 | *** join/#brlcad IriX64_ (n=IriX64@toronto-HSE-ppp4308281.sympatico.ca) | |
| 21:23.43 | IriX64 | and now irssi runs too. |
| 21:25.05 | IriX64 | mged is beautiful, but you should rename it brlcad.exe ;) |
| 21:25.57 | brlcad | no way |
| 21:26.01 | IriX64 | that geometry browser has tops and e beat all to hell. |
| 21:26.03 | brlcad | it's far from "brlcad.exe" |
| 21:26.14 | IriX64 | hehe allright. |
| 21:26.43 | IriX64 | should have one master file renamed that though:) |
| 21:27.02 | IriX64 | perhaps rt.exe? |
| 21:27.05 | IriX64 | :) |
| 21:28.36 | IriX64 | how do i make a unified diff and send it to the appropriate people? |
| 21:29.28 | IriX64 | never tried a unified diff before. |
| 21:29.59 | IriX64 | is ValarQ around? |
| 21:30.20 | IriX64 | wanted to apologize for the clutter of the in box. :) |
| 21:57.53 | IriX64 | smoke break, bbiab |
| 22:00.14 | brlcad | IriX64: diff -u |
| 22:00.29 | brlcad | the HACKING file has more detail |
| 22:59.14 | IriX64 | brlcad: thank you very much. |
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| 00:09.55 | *** topic/#brlcad is http://brlcad.org/ || BRL-CAD is an open source solid modeling software suite || Developers needed! Read the HACKING file for details on getting involved | |
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| 00:47.42 | IriX64 | ValarQ: want to compare desktops? I've tided mine up ;) |
| 00:47.52 | IriX64 | tidied too. |
| 00:52.02 | CIA-9 | BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/include/pkg.h: add PKG_EXTERN and PKG_ARGS wrappers like the other libs, consistently make all the buffers char * |
| 00:53.21 | CIA-9 | BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/libpkg/pkg.c: consistently use char * buffers (instead of unsigned) and be more specific on the errlog callbacks |
| 00:54.40 | CIA-9 | BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/remrt/remrt.c: quell warnings on the errlog callback by defining a remrt_log() that passes through to bu_log(). |
| 00:55.57 | CIA-9 | BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/ (4 files in 3 dirs): quell libpkg warnings now that there are more comprehensive declarations. |
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| 01:44.55 | IriX64 | amazing what ctrl-c will do :) |
| 01:46.07 | IriX64 | .c |
| 01:46.08 | IriX64 | bltCanvEps.c:1690: warning: initialization from incompatible pointer type |
| 01:46.08 | IriX64 | bltCanvEps.c:1692: warning: initialization from incompatible pointer type |
| 01:46.08 | IriX64 | bltCanvEps.c:1693: warning: initialization from incompatible pointer type |
| 01:46.08 | IriX64 | bltCanvEps.c: In function `Blt_InitEpsCanvasItem': |
| 01:46.11 | IriX64 | bltCanvEps.c:1717: warning: assignment from incompatible pointer type |
| 01:46.23 | IriX64 | thought you fixed that :) |
| 01:51.54 | brlcad | like I said on friday, generally don't go about changing code in src/other unless it halts the build |
| 01:52.26 | brlcad | that's not our code to maintain, no sense wasting our time |
| 01:52.39 | IriX64 | ahh, doesn't halt the build but may cause erratic runtime operation. |
| 01:53.14 | IriX64 | just out of curiousity which part of the code tree is yours? |
| 01:53.46 | brlcad | the point still stands, that's external code that we ship *only* for convenience (with a few minor exceptions like jove) |
| 01:54.00 | IriX64 | . taken. |
| 01:54.46 | brlcad | the alternative is to have people go download and install or download, compile, and install those packages on their own like many packages require |
| 01:55.02 | IriX64 | now i see thanks. |
| 01:55.18 | brlcad | and you wouldn't think to fix issues in dependencies |
| 01:55.34 | IriX64 | I might :) |
| 01:55.38 | brlcad | i mean, if you do.. might as well make a patch and provide it to those package's maintainers |
| 01:55.53 | brlcad | otherwise it's just idle effort |
| 01:56.04 | IriX64 | means getting involved with cvs. though. |
| 01:56.06 | brlcad | that has pretty much nothing to do with brl-cad |
| 01:56.15 | brlcad | not necessarily |
| 01:56.23 | brlcad | you don't have to have cvs to make a patch |
| 01:56.39 | IriX64 | how do i get it to them? |
| 01:56.47 | brlcad | heh |
| 01:57.22 | brlcad | it depends on the project, everyone has their own process .. you'd have to contact whomever's code you're messing with |
| 01:57.49 | brlcad | our process for our code is pretty straightforward and documented |
| 01:58.33 | IriX64 | code isn't considered reading though :) |
| 02:02.08 | brlcad | you're only touching the tip of the iceberg regarding warnings |
| 02:02.18 | brlcad | add --enable-warnings to configure |
| 02:02.41 | IriX64 | isn't that verbose-warnings? |
| 02:03.17 | brlcad | synonym option |
| 02:03.29 | IriX64 | understood. |
| 02:50.28 | CIA-9 | BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/BUGS: |
| 02:50.28 | CIA-9 | BRL-CAD: the debugbu 2 bug occurs because bu_memdebug_add() is not called unless memory |
| 02:50.29 | CIA-9 | BRL-CAD: checking is enabled via bu_debug. so when bu_debug is set to 2 or 3, it ends up |
| 02:50.29 | CIA-9 | BRL-CAD: reporting errors during bu_free() for items that were allocated and were not yet |
| 02:50.29 | CIA-9 | BRL-CAD: being tracked. |
| 03:08.06 | CIA-9 | BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/libbu/malloc.c: even if we're in debug mode, don't abort the requested task (i.e. free'ing memory) else invoke the wrath of corrupted leaky memory |
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| 05:52.51 | sebastienbailard | I was wondering, is anyone working on QCAD integration inside BRL-CAD? |
| 05:54.16 | sebastienbailard | (Is anyone on tonight?) |
| 06:08.12 | sebastienbailard | I'll try again another time. |
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| 12:51.58 | CIA-9 | BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/ (libbu/printb.c mged/cmd.c): ws |
| 13:50.15 | ``Erik | sean, ya handy? |
| 13:53.42 | brlcad | two of them even |
| 13:53.55 | brlcad | blaming shite one me, I hear |
| 13:54.11 | brlcad | build for that lib hasn't changed since 2004 (i.e. ever) |
| 13:54.24 | clock_ | brlcad: what about making "sucess stories" section for brlcad and putting Ronja there? |
| 13:54.36 | brlcad | clock_: already have you in |
| 13:54.56 | brlcad | you just can't see the new site yet ;) |
| 13:54.57 | clock_ | brlcad: hehe where? |
| 13:55.02 | clock_ | brlcad: lol :) |
| 13:55.10 | brlcad | it's sitting in a prototype dir |
| 13:55.19 | brlcad | while the new site is worked on and tested out |
| 14:01.18 | ``Erik | :D |
| 14:01.36 | clock_ | brlcad: do you have other app stories than ronja? |
| 14:01.37 | ``Erik | I think we figured out that it never behaved as they expected |
| 14:02.47 | ``Erik | they want weird behavior, I was wondering if you had a slick angle for it... they want librt, libbu, libbn and libtcl statically linked in, but the others (libm, libc) dynamic... I came up with $(topbuild_dir)/src/lib/librt/.libs/librt.a or including alllllll the .o files in one link |
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| 14:17.26 | brlcad | ``Erik: yuck yuck |
| 14:17.34 | brlcad | and non-portable |
| 14:17.58 | brlcad | that'll fail on the server builds (aix for sure, possibly altix) |
| 14:18.25 | brlcad | i think it just has to use convenience libs so that it's all bundled |
| 14:19.25 | brlcad | which isn't so bad I suppose, I've been meaning to make a "geometry engine" mega library akin to daniel's brlcad.dll for windows anyways, and they'd be needed for that too |
| 14:37.36 | brlcad | hehe, it's a 10MB static lib, 8MB jnilib now :) |
| 14:38.08 | brlcad | (at least on os x) |
| 14:40.53 | ``Erik | that's what they want *shrug* don't make sense to me, but... little they do does ;) *duck* |
| 14:42.22 | CIA-9 | BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/ (libbu/Makefile.am libbn/Makefile.am librt/Makefile.am): create convenience libraries for libbu, libbn, and librt so that they may be used in other libraries to fully resolve symbols (by virtue of full inclusion). |
| 14:44.00 | CIA-9 | BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/librtserver/Makefile.am: use the new convenience libraries for libbu, libbn, librt instead of using the usual lib_LTLIBRARY so that we don't end up creating a jnilib that has rpath run-time requirements looking up librt, libbn, and libbu. |
| 14:45.17 | ``Erik | he's in rons office |
| 14:45.27 | brlcad | heh |
| 14:46.09 | ``Erik | <-- coulda walked around the corner and told him it was done... :) |
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| 18:33.38 | CIA-9 | BRL-CAD: 03johnranderson * 10brlcad/src/libbu/hash.c: Added bu_get_hash_key() |
| 18:34.25 | CIA-9 | BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/misc/win32-msvc/brlcad.dsw: on second thought, remove libtclcad.. it really doesn't 'fit' well with the rest without including all of brl-cad's libs |
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| 18:49.43 | CIA-9 | BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/ (other/libtcl/Makefile.am librtserver/Makefile.am): make/use noinst convenience library for libtcl just like was done for bu, bn, rt so that librtserver can have no dependencies other than guaranteed system ones |
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| 18:52.08 | CIA-9 | BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/include/bu.h: added new bu_get_hash_key() decl |
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| 19:25.35 | CIA-9 | BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/librtserver/Makefile.am: there may not exist a libtcl_nil.la if building tcl was disabled to act accordingly |
| 19:29.20 | CIA-9 | BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/libwdb/Makefile.am: make a convenience library for libwdb so that it may be bundled into other libraries |
| 19:36.56 | CIA-9 | BRL-CAD: 03johnranderson * 10brlcad/src/librtserver/rtserver.c: Changed the JNI wrapper names to agree with the new class names in the MUVES3 brlcadservice |
| 19:59.43 | brlcad | ``Erik: any reason why all the libs are set to version 19? |
| 20:44.32 | ``Erik | uhmmmmmmm, because when I changed it from cake, they were all 19, and I was told to retain library version numbers, and that all libraries would have the same version... |
| 20:45.00 | ``Erik | the reason is across the hall from you :) |
| 20:46.40 | clock_ | "because when I [...] they were all 19, and I was told to [...] library [...] number, and that all [...] would have the same [...]" |
| 20:46.59 | clock_ | After a bit of cutting sonds like an interesting student's story with girls |
| 20:47.11 | ``Erik | like, totally |
| 20:56.16 | ``Erik | from the looks of it, it's based on the RCS tag in /gen.sh, snarfed through sh/sharedlibvers.sh |
| 20:57.04 | ``Erik | gets into cakefile.defs into LIBVERS |
| 20:59.21 | brlcad | ahh, that beastie |
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| 21:51.09 | *** topic/#brlcad is http://brlcad.org/ || BRL-CAD is an open source solid modeling software suite || Developers needed! Read the HACKING file for details on getting involved | |
| 22:32.48 | IriX64 | good dog. :) |
| 22:38.57 | IriX64 | Is there any way to get Murphys Law repealed? perhaps if we launch a mass appeal? :) |
| 22:40.48 | CIA-9 | BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/Makefile.am: |
| 22:40.48 | CIA-9 | BRL-CAD: initial functional stubbings for a 'brlcad' library. use the newly added |
| 22:40.48 | CIA-9 | BRL-CAD: libbu/libbn/librt/libwdb convenience libraries, mimicking what is already done |
| 22:40.48 | CIA-9 | BRL-CAD: for the windows dll. don't enable the actual installable object yet until the |
| 22:40.48 | CIA-9 | BRL-CAD: next minor release. |
| 22:50.41 | *** join/#brlcad IriX64_ (n=Who@toronto-HSE-ppp4303915.sympatico.ca) | |
| 22:56.14 | IriX64 | get with it :) |
| 00:41.58 | *** join/#brlcad dli (n=dli@adsl-75-33-240-234.dsl.chcgil.sbcglobal.net) | |
| 01:25.20 | *** join/#brlcad haywood_giablomi (n=John_K@c-71-56-97-21.hsd1.ga.comcast.net) | |
| 01:25.45 | *** join/#brlcad sebastienbailard (n=sbailard@CPE000d88ba7a3b-CM001371169626.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com) | |
| 01:27.07 | sebastienbailard | Hello, anyone here today? |
| 01:28.31 | *** join/#brlcad IriX64 (n=IriX64@toronto-HSE-ppp4304415.sympatico.ca) | |
| 01:28.39 | sebastienbailard | Hey. |
| 01:28.48 | IriX64 | hey |
| 01:28.52 | IriX64 | sups? |
| 01:29.00 | sebastienbailard | Don't know. Just came on. |
| 01:29.11 | sebastienbailard | I think everyone is busy. |
| 01:29.23 | IriX64 | usually you ask for help here.:) |
| 01:29.29 | IriX64 | and they reply given time. |
| 01:29.30 | sebastienbailard | Ah. I like to ask to ask, before I ask. |
| 01:29.46 | sebastienbailard | I've got a question about brlcad's UI. |
| 01:30.06 | IriX64 | i only type with two fingers, sorry im so slow. |
| 01:30.11 | sebastienbailard | Are people planning on integrating qcad for 2D input? |
| 01:30.18 | IriX64 | ask someone may answer. |
| 01:30.26 | IriX64 | whats qcad? |
| 01:30.41 | sebastienbailard | It's a really good linux 2d cad program. |
| 01:31.04 | sebastienbailard | http://www.nabble.com/-brlcad---Developers--QCAD-integration-inside-BRL-CAD--t2001250.html |
| 01:31.05 | IriX64 | brlcad is misnamed it should be brlmodelling. |
| 01:31.26 | sebastienbailard | People use it to design machinery, right? |
| 01:31.47 | IriX64 | model things, weapons systems and anything else. |
| 01:32.06 | sebastienbailard | So it's a modeler, it's not for design? |
| 01:32.12 | sebastienbailard | Huh. |
| 01:32.21 | IriX64 | design *to model. |
| 01:32.29 | sebastienbailard | Ah. |
| 01:32.48 | sebastienbailard | It's just there aren't any decent gpl 3D CAD programs. |
| 01:33.04 | IriX64 | gpl? |
| 01:33.20 | sebastienbailard | GNU public license. Like linux, or emacs. |
| 01:33.38 | IriX64 | so you want the cadillac for free? |
| 01:33.51 | sebastienbailard | Pretty much, yes. |
| 01:34.28 | IriX64 | well you have it in BrlCad :P |
| 01:34.32 | sebastienbailard | The way it is right now, people at the mit-type fab labs use blender to design the stuff they fabricate. |
| 01:34.58 | sebastienbailard | Right, but BrlCad's user interface is a little intimidating. |
| 01:35.06 | IriX64 | how? |
| 01:35.30 | sebastienbailard | Let's put it this way. I asked three experienced people what they thought of brl cad |
| 01:35.39 | sebastienbailard | should I learn to use it, and so on. |
| 01:35.46 | IriX64 | and? |
| 01:35.49 | sebastienbailard | Got three 'no's. |
| 01:36.03 | IriX64 | so why are you here? |
| 01:36.16 | sebastienbailard | I was coming to ask about the qcad stuff. |
| 01:36.39 | IriX64 | ill let someone who knows what qcad is answer that. |
| 01:37.05 | sebastienbailard | I figured if people had a good way to do 2D input using brl cad, they'd be more motivated to learn the 3d stuff. |
| 01:37.34 | IriX64 | why work in 2d when you can work in 3d.? |
| 01:37.52 | sebastienbailard | 1) Sometimes all people need is 2d. |
| 01:38.03 | IriX64 | Those experienced people couldn't have been experienced in brlcad. |
| 01:38.08 | sebastienbailard | 2) People can figure out 2d easier than 3d. |
| 01:38.34 | sebastienbailard | Ah yes. My point there was - they had all looked at brlcad, and were scared off. |
| 01:38.54 | IriX64 | if the tool doesn't suit you buy another tool why should brlcad regress? |
| 01:39.24 | sebastienbailard | I don't mean to be rude. My point is that brlcad might need a bit of candy-coating. |
| 01:39.46 | sebastienbailard | Assuming you guys want more people to use brlcad. |
| 01:39.47 | IriX64 | for those too lazy to take the tutorials? |
| 01:40.38 | sebastienbailard | Ah. I didn't mean to offend. |
| 01:41.58 | sebastienbailard | Is anyone else there? |
| 01:44.40 | sebastienbailard | Is anyone using brlcad to generate g-code then? |
| 06:33.46 | *** join/#brlcad clock_ (i=clock@84-72-93-198.dclient.hispeed.ch) | |
| 07:44.18 | *** join/#brlcad SWAT (n=SWAT@a80-100-68-159.adsl.xs4all.nl) | |
| 07:45.18 | SWAT | How do I start brlcad, do I need to compile it and where is the README file? |
| 08:06.18 | *** join/#brlcad clock_ (n=clock@zux221-122-143.adsl.green.ch) | |
| 11:34.36 | brlcad | SWAT: brl-cad is a suite of many many tools .. what you "start" depends on what you want to do |
| 11:35.03 | brlcad | most start with the solid modeler mged, which has a gui and associated documentation |
| 11:36.23 | brlcad | SWAT: the readme is in both the source and binary distributions, in the binary distribution, it's embedded in the documentation directory in usr/brlcad/share/brlcad/7.8.2/README |
| 11:37.42 | brlcad | in the source distribution, the README is right there in the top level directory |
| 11:37.49 | brlcad | you can view it on-line here: http://brlcad.cvs.sourceforge.net/*checkout*/brlcad/brlcad/README |
| 11:44.54 | SWAT | thanks |
| 13:07.55 | ``Erik | in addition to the package inclusion... |
| 13:26.07 | SWAT | well, it 'normal' to put the README in the top dir |
| 13:26.18 | SWAT | just like the INSTALL (if applicable) |
| 13:40.45 | *** join/#brlcad rossberg (n=rossberg@bz.bzflag.bz) | |
| 13:42.29 | CIA-9 | BRL-CAD: 03d_rossberg * 10brlcad/misc/win32-msvc/Dll/TclDummies.c: Tcl_SetErrno dummy function |
| 13:44.11 | CIA-9 | BRL-CAD: 03d_rossberg * 10brlcad/src/libbu/libbu.dsp: added bu_fgets.c |
| 13:46.06 | CIA-9 | BRL-CAD: 03d_rossberg * 10brlcad/src/librt/librt.dsp: added transform.c |
| 13:47.58 | brlcad | hello rossberg, how goes things? |
| 13:51.19 | *** join/#brlcad clock_ (n=clock@zux221-122-143.adsl.green.ch) | |
| 13:58.56 | rossberg | brlcad: good, today is my first working day after vacation |
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| 14:28.02 | brlcad | rossberg: ahh, nice |
| 15:02.57 | *** part/#brlcad SWAT (n=SWAT@a80-100-68-159.adsl.xs4all.nl) | |
| 16:56.40 | ``Erik | 2/det |
| 17:14.16 | CIA-9 | BRL-CAD: 03erikgreenwald * 10brlcad/ (include/rtgeom.h src/librt/g_metaball.c): Added "method" to metaball struct. Changed some language. |
| 17:30.19 | CIA-9 | BRL-CAD: 03erikgreenwald * 10brlcad/src/librt/g_metaball.c: fix a crash in the exporter... |
| 17:33.01 | CIA-9 | BRL-CAD: 03erikgreenwald * 10brlcad/src/mged/ (chgmodel.c typein.c): Added "method" to metaball struct. Changed some language. |
| 17:47.49 | CIA-9 | BRL-CAD: 03erikgreenwald * 10brlcad/src/mged/ (edsol.c sedit.h): Added "method" to metaball struct. Begin stubbing out ECMD stuff. Changed some language. |
| 18:02.50 | brlcad | "method"? |
| 18:03.02 | ``Erik | yeah |
| 18:03.27 | ``Erik | selectable formulas for evaluating field strength at a given point |
| 18:03.42 | brlcad | ahh |
| 18:03.54 | brlcad | you coulda just said that :) |
| 18:04.24 | brlcad | i'm thinking.. method for evaluation? method for rendering? c++ methods? method for deleting? method for creating? ?? :) |
| 18:04.51 | ``Erik | uh, ok, sed -i.bak 's/method/selectableformulaforevaluatingfieldstrengthatagivenpoint/g' `find . -type f` && cvs commit -m 'rephrasing' |
| 18:04.53 | ``Erik | :D |
| 18:04.58 | brlcad | heh |
| 18:05.47 | ``Erik | <-- ass |
| 18:06.02 | ``Erik | my run-on sentences rock |
| 18:11.43 | *** join/#brlcad ibot (i=ibot@pdpc/supporter/active/TimRiker/bot/apt) | |
| 18:11.43 | *** topic/#brlcad is http://brlcad.org/ || BRL-CAD is an open source solid modeling software suite || Developers needed! Read the HACKING file for details on getting involved | |
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| 20:07.06 | CIA-9 | BRL-CAD: 03bob1961 * 10brlcad/src/libpkg/pkg.c: It looks like the intent was to struct copy a "struct in_addr" in the _pkg_permserver_impl function. |
| 20:09.23 | CIA-9 | BRL-CAD: 03bob1961 * 10brlcad/src/tclscripts/archer/Archer.tcl: Added method to purge edit history. More mods to accomodate ogl being replaced by wgl. |
| 20:13.22 | CIA-9 | BRL-CAD: 03bob1961 * 10brlcad/src/mged/ (cmd.c ged.c): Mods to get things to natively compile on Windows. |
| 20:25.54 | *** part/#brlcad IriX64 (n=IriX64@toronto-HSE-ppp4304415.sympatico.ca) | |
| 20:26.07 | *** join/#brlcad IriX64 (n=IriX64@toronto-HSE-ppp4304415.sympatico.ca) | |
| 20:55.47 | CIA-9 | BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/libpkg/pkg.c: minor, consolidate return |
| 21:11.40 | *** join/#brlcad digitalfredy (n=digitalf@200.71.62.161) | |
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| 21:27.57 | CIA-9 | BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/libpkg/pkg.c: |
| 21:27.57 | CIA-9 | BRL-CAD: get rid of the _WIN32 sections for recv/send instead of read/write .. this |
| 21:27.58 | CIA-9 | BRL-CAD: really shouldn't be necessary if the compatibility macros in the config_win.h |
| 21:27.58 | CIA-9 | BRL-CAD: header are specified correctly, but for now keep it as it is just without all |
| 21:27.58 | CIA-9 | BRL-CAD: the repetition by using macros that call the corresponding routine. oh yeah, |
| 21:28.00 | CIA-9 | BRL-CAD: and M-x indent-region ws too. |
| 21:33.36 | CIA-9 | BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/libpkg/pkg.c: forgot to enclose macro params in parens |
| 21:52.02 | CIA-9 | BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/mged/cmd.c: no need to forward declare it if we just move the definition up |
| 21:54.27 | *** join/#brlcad IriX64_ (n=Who@toronto-HSE-ppp4304415.sympatico.ca) | |
| 22:28.30 | brlcad | does anyone know if there's an equivalent call for sync() on win32? not finding anything of use in docs/search |
| 22:40.55 | ``Erik | grep headers for -i 'flush'? |
| 22:42.35 | brlcad | starting to find stuff, found what cygwin does |
| 22:42.52 | ``Erik | (does windows even buffer file descriptors? hahaha) |
| 22:43.02 | brlcad | or at least a proposal for dealing with it at one point, which basically involves iterating over the fixed drives and callling FlushFileBuffers |
| 22:43.42 | ``Erik | coo' |
| 22:48.18 | brlcad | or I could just remove our four bastard usages of sync() and replace em with fsync() |
| 22:51.04 | brlcad | though a bu_sync() would still be nice to have for bu_bomb() situations |
| 22:54.15 | ``Erik | uhhhhh |
| 22:54.27 | ``Erik | if sync() 'fails', your os is hosed and crashes... |
| 22:54.28 | ``Erik | :) |
| 22:54.47 | ``Erik | or locks |
| 22:54.57 | brlcad | "not my problem?" :) |
| 22:55.43 | ``Erik | well, ok |
| 22:55.45 | ``Erik | look at it this way |
| 22:55.50 | ``Erik | void sync(void); |
| 22:55.57 | ``Erik | how do you figure out if that failed? :) |
| 22:56.22 | brlcad | the standard doesn't actually require sync() to do anything either |
| 22:56.28 | ``Erik | { ask syncer to do it's thing; block until syncer has done it's thing. } |
| 22:56.37 | brlcad | which is why i'm just going to change it all to fsync which does |
| 22:56.45 | ``Erik | that's probably better |
| 22:57.05 | ``Erik | on a massively multi-user system, sync() could be a brutal pig of a function call, fsync is targetted |
| 22:58.01 | ``Erik | <-- tells the linux kernel on that altix to schedule sync once every 42 days to prove his point :) |
| 22:58.40 | brlcad | it can be a pig, but it should still return within a few seconds at worst |
| 22:58.57 | brlcad | just as can be calling the sync command |
| 22:59.23 | brlcad | kermit still issues sync after almost every command he types :) |
| 22:59.31 | ``Erik | on large fs's with brutal activity, I've watched sync take disturbing amounts of time |
| 22:59.34 | brlcad | due to old systems not doing it for you |
| 22:59.37 | ``Erik | <-- does that a lot, too |
| 22:59.41 | ``Erik | oh |
| 22:59.50 | ``Erik | and if you have a flakey disk, sync can take a *LONG* time |
| 23:00.01 | ``Erik | like a non-responsive nfs mount or something |
| 23:00.43 | ``Erik | heh, or a raid array in the process of crapping itself. :( |
| 23:02.09 | CIA-9 | BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/librt/db_open.c: fsync the file before closing it just to be safe |
| 23:07.09 | CIA-9 | BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/configure.ac: check for fsync(), bsd func that some older systems don't have |
| 23:16.07 | CIA-9 | BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/mged/cmd.c: remove the sync() call. instead just fsync() the currently open geometry database file. doxygenify the comments while we're in here. |
| 23:21.13 | CIA-9 | BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/librt/db_open.c: rework db_sync() so that it always flushs and tries fsync() if available and only sync() as last resort. |
| 23:26.40 | CIA-9 | BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/librt/db_open.c: sync via db_sync in db_close instead of manually duplicating what is conceptually db_sync's job |
| 23:27.22 | CIA-9 | BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/mged/cmd.c: sync via db_sync instead of fsync'ing directly. |
| 23:28.08 | brlcad | i'm just working down the list |
| 23:28.29 | CIA-9 | BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/mged/dm_old/dm-mer.c: no protection for you |
| 23:29.43 | ``Erik | hm, so you got src/proc-db/pix2g.c and src/util/op-bw.c, cool |
| 23:29.45 | ``Erik | :) |
| 23:30.53 | brlcad | yep |
| 23:31.17 | brlcad | hence the alphabetical order of the fixes ;) |
| 23:31.22 | CIA-9 | BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/proc-db/pix2g.c: stupid sync().. who wrote this? .. changed to db_sync() |
| 23:33.03 | brlcad | bleh.. op-bw is vax-specific |
| 23:33.23 | brlcad | i somehow doubt anyone has an optronics |
| 23:34.04 | brlcad | hmm |
| 23:34.23 | brlcad | and if they do, the sync() might actually be needed for that one, /me leaves it alone |
| 23:42.30 | *** join/#brlcad mlombardo (n=anonymou@6532233hfc181.tampabay.res.rr.com) | |
| 23:45.23 | CIA-9 | BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/ (TODO src/util/op-bw.c): op-bw had a long run but seeing as it is vax-specific, it is being marked obsolete. the sources are marked for removal at the next minor update (probably by 7.10). |
| 00:13.21 | ``Erik | your mailbox will be full of complaints next month. |
| 00:13.22 | ``Erik | :) |
| 00:14.25 | brlcad | heh |
| 00:42.10 | CIA-9 | BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/ (configure.ac src/mged/Makefile.am): check for the solaris lexer library (needed for yyless() apparently) and provide LIBL accordingly for Makefile.am usage. |
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| 01:54.47 | CIA-9 | BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/other/jove/ (jove.h jove_main.c jove_term.c): obliterate SYSV/SYS5 usage, instead relying on HAVE_ symbols more consistently (hopefully). |
| 02:20.09 | brlcad | well that should take care of that lil thorn hopefully |
| 02:46.05 | dtidrow | brlcad: does lee ever show up on here? |
| 02:47.06 | brlcad | dtidrow: from time to time, but he's not much of an irc geek |
| 02:47.30 | dtidrow | are you guys still looking for coders? |
| 02:47.35 | brlcad | he doesn't know how to live in here, doesn't manage a session or anything |
| 02:47.42 | brlcad | always |
| 02:47.55 | dtidrow | and you haven't smacked him into shape yet? |
| 02:48.02 | brlcad | heh |
| 02:48.50 | brlcad | he might have too many pointy grey hairs to manage |
| 02:49.45 | brlcad | speaking of coders.. i'm just in the middle of writing up an announcement to hire some students to finally work on the website.. |
| 02:50.09 | brlcad | hopefully we can take care of that problem soon finally |
| 02:54.59 | dtidrow | heh - how about one fairly experienced one? ;-) |
| 03:13.20 | *** join/#brlcad digitalfredy (n=digitalf@200.71.62.161) | |
| 03:14.37 | brlcad | hah, excellent |
| 03:15.25 | dtidrow | ? |
| 03:16.03 | brlcad | i mean that would be great if you meant what I think you meant ;-) |
| 03:16.17 | dtidrow | ah :-) |
| 03:16.36 | dtidrow | maybe... ;-) |
| 03:16.47 | brlcad | i can bring it up tomorrow if you like, see where things are at |
| 03:17.11 | brlcad | the usual end of year politics are prevalent this month of course |
| 03:17.22 | dtidrow | heh |
| 03:19.03 | brlcad | or just give lee a ring, though he'll likely dance a similar style on his end |
| 03:21.20 | dtidrow | well, I thought he was going to get in touch with me after SIGGRAPH, maybe it slipped his mind or he thought the reverse |
| 03:22.08 | dtidrow | I'll squirt him an email tomorrow - it's lee_at_arl..., right? |
| 03:22.30 | dtidrow | or lbutler? |
| 03:23.47 | brlcad | i'm sure it's slipped his mind entirely |
| 03:24.04 | brlcad | lbutler or just butler |
| 03:24.08 | dtidrow | he _is_ getting old, after all... ;-) |
| 03:25.15 | brlcad | so "they"'re still tossing around the corporate crap eh? :) |
| 03:27.01 | dtidrow | well, some of that, though it hasn't been made clear what that directive meant for 'project' computers |
| 03:57.05 | ``Erik | win show 2 |
| 03:57.45 | *** part/#brlcad digitalfredy (n=digitalf@200.71.62.161) | |
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| 20:42.06 | dtidrow | the silence here is deafening |
| 21:04.29 | brlcad | heh |
| 21:04.40 | brlcad | busy coding ;) |
| 21:06.08 | brlcad | dtidrow: did you ever directly contribute code to brl-cad or just indirectly involved via relationship with muuss and company? |
| 21:06.38 | brlcad | just wonder, as I don't see your name in the authors file and would want to credit you if you have |
| 21:06.56 | IriX64 | busy kodying, get it right :) |
| 21:29.58 | dtidrow | brlcad: just indirectly so far |
| 21:53.54 | dtidrow | heh |
| 21:54.14 | dtidrow | I ought to try gentoo sometime... |
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| 23:23.20 | brlcad | <PROTECTED> |
| 23:23.26 | brlcad | oops :) |
| 23:24.12 | dtidrow | lol |
| 23:24.14 | brlcad | interest in ice cream, of course |
| 23:24.20 | dtidrow | heh |
| 23:25.02 | brlcad | i think he's going to have a talk with the dairy farmer |
| 23:30.56 | ``Erik | :o here I thought lee was straight and married, go figure |
| 23:31.16 | ``Erik | "I laughed so hard, beer came out of my nose. And I don't even drink beer." |
| 23:34.50 | IriX64 | ``Erik your creative side showing :P |
| 23:43.46 | ``Erik | oh, sorry *zips back up* |
| 23:44.15 | IriX64 | my zip drive is on the other box :) |
| 23:47.31 | dtidrow | -thud!- |
| 23:47.46 | dtidrow | that's us dropping into the gutter ;-) |
| 23:54.24 | IriX64 | plugh <--- thats me playing cave ;) |
| 00:07.37 | IriX64 | time to bring up RedHat 6.0. |
| 00:09.04 | Twingy | that reminds me |
| 00:09.15 | Twingy | I need to install linux |
| 00:09.32 | ``Erik | last rhat I installed by choice was 4.2 |
| 00:09.54 | ``Erik | :/ |
| 00:10.05 | ``Erik | which breed, justin? debian? gentoo? |
| 00:10.20 | ``Erik | ubuntu seemed extremely developer unfreindly on the lappie alexis had |
| 00:10.25 | Twingy | last redhat I installed by choice was 2.0, 4.0, 4.1, 4.2, 5.0, 5.1, 5.2, 6.0, 6.1, 6.2, 7.0, 7.1, 8.0, 9.0, RHEL 3 |
| 00:10.36 | IriX64 | hahaha |
| 00:10.48 | ``Erik | that's more than the last |
| 00:10.54 | Twingy | no no |
| 00:10.58 | Twingy | I installed them all at once |
| 00:11.01 | ``Erik | :o |
| 00:11.08 | IriX64 | gotta find an easy way to copy files from win to redhat. |
| 00:11.11 | ``Erik | um |
| 00:11.17 | ``Erik | in linux... mount the windows drive... |
| 00:11.18 | ``Erik | and |
| 00:11.18 | IriX64 | so you got an aggregate system? |
| 00:11.20 | ``Erik | copy them... |
| 00:11.40 | IriX64 | doh file systems don't match. |
| 00:11.46 | ``Erik | eh? |
| 00:11.54 | IriX64 | think vmware. |
| 00:12.01 | ``Erik | so, uh |
| 00:12.09 | ``Erik | look at the disk image windows is running on |
| 00:12.15 | ``Erik | and do a loopback device attach |
| 00:12.16 | ``Erik | ... |
| 00:12.27 | IriX64 | its the other way around |
| 00:12.37 | IriX64 | redhat is the guest. |
| 00:12.44 | IriX64 | whoa... |
| 00:13.43 | IriX64 | last file i transferred i burnt onto a cd but that gets real expensive real fast. hold ive got an erasbel here somewhere. |
| 00:13.51 | IriX64 | just a sec. |
| 00:14.12 | dtidrow | cd's are expensive?????? |
| 00:15.17 | dtidrow | well, if you use a lot, I suppose |
| 00:16.12 | Twingy | so you did install vmware like I suggested |
| 00:16.32 | IriX64 | yes, beautiful, except i farked up and installed server. |
| 00:17.00 | IriX64 | brb |
| 00:21.16 | ``Erik | if the guest rhat has network access, you should be able to drop samba on it and talk via winderz network shares |
| 00:25.13 | *** join/#brlcad ValarQ_ (i=vq@81-235-191-95-no48.tbcn.telia.com) | |
| 00:36.59 | ``Erik | swank, http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/VAX mentions brlcad :) |
| 00:37.50 | ``Erik | ah |
| 00:37.55 | ``Erik | and sean is to blame, hah |
| 00:46.43 | brlcad | ahh, yeppers |
| 00:47.10 | brlcad | hey, anyone got a sec to comment on a diagram? |
| 00:49.53 | brlcad | http://ftp.brlcad.org/tmp/CAD_Diagram.pdf |
| 00:53.28 | brlcad | the overlaps and ratios are mostly all quite intentional/deliberate, though still a very rough stab -- needs a lot more detail me thinks mebbie, perhaps expanding the acronyms |
| 01:09.54 | Twingy | throw in a couple backronyms and recursonyms for good measure. |
| 01:16.53 | Maloeran | That's one elaborate and clear diagram. It's intended for managers, right? :) |
| 01:17.34 | ``Erik | there're "letters", no mgr would feel comfortable with that on the screen |
| 01:17.42 | ``Erik | letters go by bullets on powerpoint slides, that's it |
| 01:30.20 | brlcad | Maloeran: uh, lets just say it's intended to explain how brl-cad "fits in" on the highest level |
| 01:30.23 | brlcad | ;) |
| 01:32.10 | Twingy | DEY TUK R' JBS! |
| 02:10.17 | Maloeran | It seems rather painful to make much sense out of this, but maybe that's not the intended purpose... |
| 02:15.43 | brlcad | i don't mind painful as long as sense *can* be made out of it. if people have to use a few neurons to understand it then that's fine.. if something is really confusing, then that would be a problem |
| 02:15.59 | brlcad | it is a little too busy, too many heavy lines.. /me tones some of them down |
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| 02:46.13 | *** join/#brlcad IriX64 (n=Who@bas3-sudbury98-1168050759.dsl.bell.ca) | |
| 02:47.06 | IriX64 | irssi compiled in the virtual machine :) |
| 02:47.33 | IriX64 | tempted to try brlcad. |
| 02:54.43 | IriX64 | thought you were threatning me for a moment :) |
| 03:20.08 | *** join/#brlcad haywood_giablomi (n=John_K@c-71-56-97-21.hsd1.ga.comcast.net) | |
| 04:11.51 | CIA-9 | BRL-CAD: 03lbutler * 10brlcad/misc/ (doxygen_structure Doxyfile): |
| 04:11.51 | CIA-9 | BRL-CAD: New doxygen configuration file Doxyfile. The doxygen_structure file defines |
| 04:11.51 | CIA-9 | BRL-CAD: the layout of the heirarchy of the doxygen document |
| 04:38.35 | CIA-9 | BRL-CAD: 03lbutler * 10brlcad/src/librt/memalloc.c: annotate malloc entries so that we know where the allocation took place |
| 04:41.53 | CIA-9 | BRL-CAD: 03lbutler * 10brlcad/include/ (16 files): miscelaneous changes to support doxygen |
| 05:15.37 | *** join/#brlcad PKMOBILE (n=Apathy@c-68-55-177-2.hsd1.md.comcast.net) | |
| 05:49.12 | CIA-9 | BRL-CAD: 03lbutler * 10brlcad/src/librt/db_lookup.c: added BU_FLSTR to malloc/free to help track down memory creation/leaks |
| 05:51.09 | CIA-9 | BRL-CAD: 03lbutler * 10brlcad/src/libbu/ (21 files): Mostly doxygen formatting. |
| 05:53.26 | CIA-9 | BRL-CAD: 03lbutler * 10brlcad/misc/ (Doxyfile doxygen_structure): Added to structure. Changed Doxyfile to put html output in subdirectory of misc instead of in my Mac's Sites directory. |
| 05:54.51 | CIA-9 | BRL-CAD: 03lbutler * 10brlcad/Makefile.am: added target for producing doxygen run |
| 05:55.36 | CIA-9 | BRL-CAD: 03lbutler * 10brlcad/src/libbn/anim.c: doxygen patches |
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| 07:24.02 | Maloeran | Erik, any idea of where I should or will find Lee's code to read BRL-CAD geometry? Seems simple enough, but I would rather work from the code he already wrote |
| 07:30.37 | Maloeran | And I don't think the cathedral/galleon modeller ever received an email for some reason o.O |
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| 12:24.27 | *** join/#brlcad clock__ (n=clock@zux221-122-143.adsl.green.ch) | |
| 14:41.01 | ``Erik | mal: I'll go ask him, uh, right now |
| 15:27.23 | Maloeran | Thanks Erik, I'm supposed to do that before September 1 :} |
| 18:39.26 | brlcad | i like deadlines |
| 18:39.37 | brlcad | especially the *whooshing* sound as they pass by |
| 18:42.53 | dtidrow | rofl |
| 18:47.51 | ``Erik | meh, it's not a deadline, it's a 'milestone' |
| 18:57.14 | ``Erik | alexis: context.c:141: warning: implicit declaration of function `_rtDestroyContext' |
| 18:57.47 | ``Erik | putting an underscore infront of symbols is A Bad Thing(tm) on several os's |
| 19:05.26 | Maloeran | Is it? It was to differentiate between functions exported in the dlopen'ed library, the underscore marked functions not meant for "public" use but for the wrapper |
| 19:06.02 | Maloeran | So Erik, can I find Lee's code somewhere? |
| 19:11.02 | ``Erik | mal: would putting "static" infront of the symbol be adequate? :) linkers often prefix symbols with one or two underscores and treat the number of leading underscores as a meaningful thing... |
| 19:11.05 | ``Erik | he said he'd commit it |
| 19:11.15 | ``Erik | we got access to the repo sorted out on our side today... |
| 19:11.18 | ``Erik | I'll go prod him, brb |
| 19:14.35 | ``Erik | he'll commit what he has, says he'll finish it this evening, and apologizes for how long it's taken |
| 19:15.02 | ``Erik | (btw, the platform your shtuff failed on was fbsd/amd64) |
| 19:15.52 | Maloeran | I just tried your autoreconf stuff here at home and it broke as well, but I think my tools are outdated |
| 19:16.13 | ``Erik | automake 1.9 and autoconf 2.59 is what I write for |
| 19:16.31 | ``Erik | it SHOULD work with automaek 1.6 and autoconf 2.53 |
| 19:16.47 | ``Erik | it should not with automake 1.4 and autoconf 2.13, much has changed since those dark days |
| 19:17.18 | Maloeran | Okay I got that, it still failed though |
| 19:18.39 | Maloeran | http://rafb.net/paste/results/sgQRrp53.html |
| 19:22.12 | ``Erik | autoreconf -vi |
| 19:23.03 | Maloeran | Ah right, thanks. I'll learn this stuff eventually.. :) |
| 19:23.11 | ``Erik | <-- points at the errors from l ines 25 to 32 |
| 19:23.48 | ``Erik | lee is committing right now, btw |
| 19:24.55 | Maloeran | Good, thanks |
| 19:25.32 | ``Erik | eh, that buttmonkey used a straight makefile and hardcoded brlcad's path |
| 19:26.26 | Maloeran | That's stuff I know how to work with, fine with me :) |
| 19:27.12 | brlcad | i think he still doesn't know how automake/autoconf work yet really |
| 19:29.05 | brlcad | i'm just wondering how many times erik will have to see autoreconf "not work by default" before you see the utility of the script :) |
| 19:30.11 | ``Erik | I see the utility, it's dandy for people who have no clue what they're doing *shrug* :) |
| 19:30.20 | brlcad | i've yet to see a new autotools user not hit the same half-dozen basic errors.. and they're completely stupid ones imho, usually buried deep in useless verbose output |
| 19:31.09 | brlcad | even for folks that have a clue, it just hides the stupid gnu folks idiotic tendancies |
| 19:31.18 | brlcad | s/tendancies/religion/ |
| 19:31.44 | ValarQ | ALL HAIL Bob Dobs! |
| 19:33.52 | ValarQ | "thou shalt"? |
| 19:36.42 | brlcad | too long to get into, i left my soap box at home |
| 19:37.32 | brlcad | but a limited few gnu folks are rather opinionated (especially the autotools folks) on how thou shalt use their tools in ways that are counterproductive and unreasonable really |
| 19:38.31 | brlcad | i'm apparently in the minority (with respect to their religion) of liking things to work by default and not distributing burden unnecessarily |
| 19:39.07 | ValarQ | ok, i must confess i havent rolled that many autotools packages myself, only a few smaller things |
| 19:40.32 | ``Erik | if it was hard to write, it should be hard to use! :D |
| 19:40.38 | ValarQ | hah |
| 19:53.57 | IriX64 | try working with AM_PATH_SDL not found in library. |
| 19:54.52 | ValarQ | hmm |
| 20:05.47 | ``Erik | alexis: do another update, g-tri.c is done and 'works' |
| 20:06.16 | ``Erik | irix: in order to run aclocal, you need sdl development stuff installed. |
| 20:21.21 | Maloeran | I noticed, Erik, thanks |
| 20:22.03 | IriX64 | thanks Erik. |
| 20:24.56 | ``Erik | yes, I am erik, stater of the obvious, purveyor of unnecessary information... |
| 20:39.21 | IriX64 | pooh.... checking for C compiler default output file name... configure: error C compiler cannot create executables. whats that all about ? |
| 20:40.49 | brlcad | you have some bad option/compiler set |
| 20:41.10 | IriX64 | heh and Erik claimed ... ;) |
| 20:41.15 | brlcad | look in config.log near the end for details (like it suggests iirc) |
| 20:41.37 | IriX64 | ty |
| 20:41.40 | IriX64 | :) |
| 21:02.55 | IriX64 | --verbose is a wordy sort. :) |
| 21:54.44 | IriX64 | did she have a good trip :) |
| 21:54.44 | brlcad | heh |
| 21:55.46 | ``Erik | the bike, I presume? :) |
| 21:56.40 | IriX64 | err i get errors loading that page. |
| 21:56.52 | brlcad | "errors"? |
| 21:57.04 | IriX64 | just a sec. |
| 21:57.26 | IriX64 | bad Cmap/encoding. |
| 21:57.28 | Maloeran | Eh no, I had the bicycle, but the rest ( clothes mostly ) went to Philadelphia before I was put in a cab to Washington Dulles to catch a plane to Montreal |
| 21:57.38 | ``Erik | works fine for me |
| 21:57.53 | IriX64 | fark. |
| 21:57.53 | ``Erik | actually, some of the text boxes are clipped at the bottom |
| 21:57.55 | brlcad | ``Erik: added CAID just for you :P |
| 21:58.15 | ``Erik | electronic cad, electrical, conceive, and validation |
| 21:58.18 | ``Erik | woohoo! |
| 21:59.10 | IriX64 | ill worry about my farked up viewer later :) |
| 22:00.02 | brlcad | the text box clipping seems to be out of my control, tried various things |
| 22:00.18 | brlcad | i get a hairline white outline around them too |
| 22:00.19 | IriX64 | electronic cad wasn't that movie called Tron? :) |
| 22:03.30 | brlcad | ahh, comes out perfect if I don't use v4 pdf, and instead use v5 |
| 22:04.07 | IriX64 | at least 1. |
| 22:04.10 | IriX64 | :) |
| 22:04.17 | Maloeran | Seems perfect in xpdf 3.0 |
| 22:04.50 | brlcad | just uploaded the v5 now, does that render well? |
| 22:05.18 | Maloeran | Ouch, no transparency at all now in xpdf |
| 22:05.32 | Maloeran | Unless that is the intended effect |
| 22:05.43 | brlcad | hmm.. what do you mean? |
| 22:05.58 | ``Erik | looks good on mine |
| 22:07.06 | brlcad | should look like this: http://ftp.brlcad.org/tmp/Industry_Diagram.png |
| 22:07.12 | Maloeran | http://www.rayforce.net/pdfold.png http://www.rayforce.net/pdfnew.png |
| 22:07.57 | brlcad | heh, eww |
| 22:08.21 | brlcad | that's some pretty harsh line rendering too even on the good one |
| 22:10.07 | brlcad | interesting.. it got the "ornamentation" on the corners right in the new one, but gets it wrong in the old one |
| 22:10.08 | Maloeran | Yes, it could use some anti-aliasing |
| 22:10.10 | IriX64 | ill figure out my viewer later (sigh) |
| 22:18.21 | IriX64 | hah comparing floating point with == or != is unsafe <=== so get a condom ;) |
| 22:20.24 | IriX64 | wrapper takes on whole new meaning. :) |
| 22:21.49 | IriX64 | smokity break, back later. |
| 22:29.57 | brlcad | heh |
| 22:30.40 | brlcad | B |
| 22:52.22 | *** join/#brlcad ChanServ (ChanServ@services.) | |
| 22:52.22 | *** mode/#brlcad [+o ChanServ] by irc.freenode.net | |
| 23:13.07 | IriX64 | geek code (one language i'm weak in) |
| 23:13.10 | IriX64 | :) |
| 23:13.39 | IriX64 | shouldn't it be geec :) |
| 23:14.38 | IriX64 | +? |
| 23:15.05 | IriX64 | ratz those aren't the right operators in gee c are they? :) |
| 23:15.58 | IriX64 | reboot hopefully see you soon. |
| 23:17.10 | CIA-9 | BRL-CAD: 03lbutler * 10brlcad/src/libbu/ (39 files): Doxygen comments |
| 01:12.50 | *** join/#brlcad IriX64 (n=IriX64@bas3-sudbury98-1168050759.dsl.bell.ca) | |
| 03:08.32 | IriX64 | ``Erik thanks for saying c2 instead of c4, was worried for a minute ;) |
| 03:10.35 | IriX64 | btw that was a long minute, when did you say that yesterday? :) |
| 03:11.35 | IriX64 | tap,tap,tap distinctly hollow, who has that stuff? :) |
| 03:12.01 | IriX64 | got some filesys stuff to do back l8r. |
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| 16:44.41 | brlcad | heh, incredible.. http://www.mcgirt.net/RC/VIDEOS/Giant_B52/ |
| 16:44.59 | brlcad | cost about 1.5k for each of the 8 real turbine engines, 2 years to build it |
| 16:45.59 | clock_ | brlcad: turbine engine just for 1500 USD? |
| 16:46.29 | dtidrow | microturbines |
| 16:46.34 | clock_ | ah |
| 16:46.57 | dtidrow | looks like a 1/12 scale model or so |
| 16:48.01 | brlcad | yeah, roughly |
| 16:48.23 | brlcad | shame to dump that much into a hobby to crash and burn it :) |
| 16:48.49 | clock_ | brlcad: was it built just for the crash? |
| 16:48.58 | brlcad | heh, no |
| 16:49.07 | brlcad | did you watch the videos? |
| 16:49.57 | clock_ | brlcad: I watched just the crash |
| 16:50.23 | *** join/#brlcad cadguy (n=cadguy@c-69-250-146-28.hsd1.md.comcast.net) | |
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| 17:15.21 | cadguy | got the new doxygen stuff online. Only libbu fully converted to the new format so far. |
| 17:19.36 | dtidrow | :-) |
| 17:20.28 | brlcad | hmm, hung the first time, but looks good now |
| 17:21.29 | CIA-9 | BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/misc/Doxyfile: use 'BRL-CAD' for the project name |
| 17:23.53 | cadguy | Note that ftp.brlcad.net isn't connected |
| 17:24.22 | brlcad | ahh, that'd do it |
| 17:24.45 | cadguy | Working on libbn right now |
| 17:24.52 | cadguy | Got vmath, working on bn.h |
| 17:31.50 | brlcad | the mirroring can be set up to go whichever way it makes sense to go, even bidirectional -- but then deleting files is a pita |
| 17:33.17 | brlcad | right now it goes from sf to ftp mainly just from a backup perspective -- i had been using a script that just uploads to both for the time being |
| 17:34.45 | *** join/#brlcad SWPadnos (n=Me@dsl245.esjtvtli.sover.net) | |
| 17:35.34 | brlcad | since we cant go ftp -> sf until a quota justification can be made (which we don't have enough reason for now), I'll just leave it as sf -> ftp |
| 17:51.43 | *** join/#brlcad digitalfredy (n=digitalf@200.71.62.161) | |
| 18:14.58 | *** join/#brlcad IriX64 (n=Who@bas3-sudbury98-1168050759.dsl.bell.ca) | |
| 18:18.45 | IriX64 | ValarQ: you sound like someone who's interested in what I call tweaking. :) That's why the screen shots. |
| 18:19.56 | IriX64 | Hah. Steve Miller ---> "Really love your peaches, wanna shake your tree." |
| 18:20.19 | IriX64 | whoa. thats not directed at anybody. |
| 18:24.20 | IriX64 | ValarQ: feel free to show those to anybody who expresses an interest. :) |
| 18:25.33 | IriX64 | and a multitude of key clicks is heard as they churn out their code :) |
| 18:26.02 | IriX64 | don't mind me, im in a good mood. |
| 18:26.19 | IriX64 | vax instruction set is complete. |
| 18:30.40 | brlcad | get the simh vax running yet? |
| 18:31.01 | IriX64 | haha no its in vmware. |
| 18:31.13 | IriX64 | :) |
| 18:31.27 | brlcad | vmware doesn't have a vax simulator |
| 18:31.37 | IriX64 | hehe my system does. |
| 18:31.49 | brlcad | oookay |
| 18:32.05 | IriX64 | starting a brlcad build for it now.... |
| 18:33.41 | IriX64 | vax-dec-ultrix lets tango. |
| 18:34.48 | brlcad | ah, not a vax sim, but perhaps a vax cross-compilation |
| 18:34.53 | brlcad | quite a difference |
| 18:35.10 | IriX64 | shoot me i'm literatly challenged :) |
| 18:41.27 | brlcad | if it were only that easy :) |
| 18:45.22 | IriX64 | use your sidearm :) |
| 18:45.40 | IriX64 | .................................................................... did i get you?:) |
| 18:51.33 | brlcad | huh? |
| 18:51.57 | IriX64 | poor attempt at virtual bullets :) |
| 18:52.06 | brlcad | ah |
| 18:52.24 | dtidrow | drat |
| 18:52.33 | IriX64 | steppenwolf, all right. |
| 18:52.40 | IriX64 | drat? |
| 18:54.39 | dtidrow | was trying to /msg lee, and his client just disconnected |
| 18:55.01 | IriX64 | whats /msg? |
| 18:55.09 | IriX64 | :) |
| 18:55.20 | dtidrow | private message in irc |
| 18:55.43 | IriX64 | i click the dcc chat icon, much easier. |
| 18:55.49 | dtidrow | essentially irc's version of IM |
| 18:55.51 | dtidrow | heh |
| 18:56.01 | dtidrow | wimp ;-) |
| 18:56.04 | IriX64 | don't have to keep typing /msg |
| 18:56.07 | IriX64 | :) |
| 18:56.19 | IriX64 | yah weemp:) |
| 18:56.53 | ValarQ | IriX64: what what? |
| 18:57.18 | IriX64 | we of the two finger school try to keep typing to a minimum.:) |
| 18:57.31 | IriX64 | what weemp? |
| 18:57.36 | IriX64 | weenie wimp :) |
| 18:58.02 | ValarQ | IriX64: you're in a school for two fingers? |
| 18:58.08 | dtidrow | rofl |
| 18:58.12 | IriX64 | no no i graduated :) |
| 18:58.34 | ValarQ | ok... |
| 18:58.37 | dtidrow | if you only have two fingers, how do you grab the mouse? ;-) |
| 18:58.53 | IriX64 | palm pilot style. :) |
| 18:59.34 | ValarQ | with your tongue? |
| 19:00.05 | IriX64 | is that an offer? (and if it is i hope you're female) ;) |
| 19:01.29 | IriX64 | spontaniety sometimes lacks decourm (sigh sorry). |
| 19:01.38 | ValarQ | keep hoping |
| 19:02.01 | IriX64 | meaning youll have the gender change operation for me? :) |
| 19:02.36 | IriX64 | CCR yeahhhhhhhhh. |
| 19:03.22 | IriX64 | wait'll i put my mind back in, it's out being washed right now. |
| 19:04.03 | IriX64 | "you can ponder perputal motion, hitch your mind on a crystal day...." |
| 19:05.17 | brlcad | IriX64: just type /query username |
| 19:05.33 | brlcad | it should open a session similar to dcc but without the overhead and firewall requirements |
| 19:06.09 | IriX64 | opened it. |
| 19:06.25 | IriX64 | i can do that with a mouse click to though. |
| 19:06.34 | brlcad | most clients have that |
| 19:06.51 | IriX64 | true. |
| 19:06.51 | brlcad | still, a query is far better than dcc chat |
| 19:06.58 | brlcad | same end result |
| 19:07.08 | IriX64 | meaning dcc does'nt always connect? |
| 19:07.15 | IriX64 | doesn't too. |
| 19:07.41 | brlcad | dcc has extra overhead and connection associated, have to make sure you can directly form a connection on both ends |
| 19:08.04 | brlcad | which requires firewalls to be more lenient, instead of query where you just talk through the irc network like usual |
| 19:08.18 | IriX64 | should know that this isn't school :) |
| 19:08.43 | brlcad | school? |
| 19:09.00 | IriX64 | dcc needs an open port query uses the currently open port thats all. |
| 19:09.26 | brlcad | heh, not quite |
| 19:09.36 | IriX64 | splain then lucy :) |
| 19:11.18 | brlcad | i just did.. but even easier is to just refer: http://www.kvirc.de/docu/doc_dcc_connection.html |
| 19:12.05 | brlcad | that port has to be negotiated with the network, and isn't the same one that's outbound for the irc network already |
| 19:13.12 | brlcad | so if you're running a firewall, that's one extra port that both ends minimally need to allow and even without that, there's still the negotiation in general.. why bother when a session can be opened up as-is with a query with NO effort |
| 19:13.36 | brlcad | and i don't mean just no user effort.. no network/implementation/network effort |
| 19:14.29 | IriX64 | agreed but i miss the ease of file transfering. |
| 19:14.29 | brlcad | i couldn't care less what you do, but I know I will personally rarely ever respond to a dcc chat .. there's just no point |
| 19:14.41 | brlcad | dcc file transfer isn't dcc chat -- you said chat |
| 19:15.16 | IriX64 | hehe its still dcc, but chat i rarely have need of either the dcc variety or the query variety. |
| 19:15.49 | IriX64 | not many people do that to me and i rarely take the intiative. |
| 19:15.59 | brlcad | still, the problems you have with dcc file transfer are exemplary in itself |
| 19:16.24 | IriX64 | feeling loqacious are you? |
| 19:16.37 | IriX64 | loquacious too. |
| 19:16.37 | brlcad | ~dict loqactious |
| 19:16.57 | brlcad | ~dict loquacious |
| 19:17.13 | brlcad | gassy.. hmm.. |
| 19:17.22 | IriX64 | how sweet a friendly bot.:) |
| 19:18.07 | IriX64 | heh gregarious (brings up mr. Rogers) |
| 19:18.25 | IriX64 | what a neighbourhood. |
| 19:20.18 | Maloeran | Use a mouse to irc? What blasphemy |
| 19:20.47 | IriX64 | we'll call it irmousing. |
| 19:21.29 | IriX64 | bbiab smokity break. |
| 20:23.20 | *** join/#brlcad dan_falck (n=danfalck@pool-71-111-76-8.ptldor.dsl-w.verizon.net) [NETSPLIT VICTIM] | |
| 20:23.38 | *** join/#brlcad dan_falck (n=danfalck@pool-71-111-76-8.ptldor.dsl-w.verizon.net) | |
| 21:25.13 | IriX64 | hah 1hr 22minutes for vaxcad to compile. |
| 21:26.04 | IriX64 | wonder if celine dionne singing had any effect on compile time? :) |
| 21:26.39 | IriX64 | a happy compiler produces good code, my compiler likes music so.... |
| 21:28.12 | IriX64 | simh eh? |
| 21:28.49 | IriX64 | have around here on 8" disk somewhere a z80 emulator. |
| 21:30.07 | IriX64 | heh prefer the trout. it's edible :) |
| 21:30.31 | IriX64 | gave mine away. |
| 21:30.55 | IriX64 | little 3 board computer system s100 buss based. |
| 21:31.04 | IriX64 | 64k ram |
| 21:31.51 | IriX64 | built a card punch and paper tape punch replacement out of it. |
| 21:32.23 | IriX64 | all hand rolled asm for the z80. |
| 21:32.52 | IriX64 | i'll stop reminicing now:) |
| 21:33.23 | IriX64 | the problem with aging is that which is there to remember grows. |
| 21:34.23 | IriX64 | vms pfffttt this ones for ultrix (dec style) |
| 21:34.51 | IriX64 | say does vms have an xserver? |
| 21:35.11 | IriX64 | that would be too crazy, cross compile for vms. |
| 21:35.15 | dtidrow | think it did near the end |
| 21:35.22 | IriX64 | end? |
| 21:35.29 | dtidrow | of DEC |
| 21:35.33 | IriX64 | still several around. |
| 21:35.36 | IriX64 | oh i c |
| 21:35.42 | IriX64 | hp owns them now. |
| 21:35.51 | dtidrow | via Compaq |
| 21:35.59 | IriX64 | no compaq sold out |
| 21:36.42 | IriX64 | hahahahah blahhhhhhhh.:) |
| 21:36.43 | dtidrow | IIRC, Compaq bought DEC, then HP absorbed them |
| 21:37.13 | IriX64 | thought hp bought the dec division and compaq went its way. |
| 21:37.36 | IriX64 | how you do you feel maloeran? |
| 21:37.41 | dtidrow | nope - if you buy a 'Compaq', you're realy buying from HP |
| 21:38.13 | IriX64 | young too. |
| 21:38.13 | IriX64 | good dtidrow now i can sleep nights. |
| 21:38.17 | dtidrow | don't you remember the HP-Compaq merger? |
| 21:38.26 | dtidrow | happened back in the late '90s |
| 21:38.28 | IriX64 | actually i don't |
| 21:38.34 | Maloeran | It's just peculiar to hear people talk of these days I have never known, although I sometimes wish I did |
| 21:39.12 | IriX64 | if you need help in computer trivial pusuit, call maloeran. |
| 21:39.38 | dtidrow | yeah - I'm dating myself when I mention that I actually took some courses at a local DEC office |
| 21:39.50 | IriX64 | now in basic 10 goto 10 does what? |
| 21:40.12 | dtidrow | ewww, basic... :-\ |
| 21:40.28 | dtidrow | how old? |
| 21:40.33 | IriX64 | at 80 you'r qualified to say you *are dirt. |
| 21:40.43 | dtidrow | heh |
| 21:40.51 | IriX64 | 50 qualifies as older than dirt. |
| 21:40.58 | dtidrow | heh |
| 21:41.11 | IriX64 | so now the astute student knows i am between 50 and 80. |
| 21:42.02 | dtidrow | ah, my mistake - it was 2002 that HP absorbed Compaq |
| 21:42.04 | IriX64 | heh long as we're trivial pursuiting it, "Mabel, black label" |
| 21:44.25 | dtidrow | have they quit making that stuff? |
| 21:44.35 | IriX64 | my compiler sings, you can hear the bits shifting and rotating:) |
| 21:44.43 | dtidrow | lol |
| 21:44.50 | IriX64 | what stuff 8" drives? |
| 21:45.33 | dtidrow | ah, yes - the only place that I ever encountered 8" disks was the 'boot |
| 21:45.44 | dtidrow | boot drive for a 11/785 |
| 21:46.10 | dtidrow | iirc, it held the microcode for the cpu |
| 21:46.14 | IriX64 | they were in use by dec long before the 785. |
| 21:46.30 | IriX64 | diags too |
| 21:46.39 | dtidrow | I'm sure, but that was the only place I ever came into contact with them |
| 21:47.07 | IriX64 | did they do the job? |
| 21:47.44 | dtidrow | until the floppy wore out :-) |
| 21:50.01 | IriX64 | how to merge two databases in one easy step:) |
| 21:51.11 | *** join/#brlcad ``Erik (i=erik@c-69-250-155-85.hsd1.md.comcast.net) | |
| 21:51.45 | IriX64 | awfull slow though |
| 21:52.04 | IriX64 | ahh there its visible now slick. |
| 21:55.39 | IriX64 | Twingy, you get that hole punched ;) |
| 21:56.35 | IriX64 | oh my a head on with havoc. |
| 21:57.00 | IriX64 | hahaha havocs running away from the cray. |
| 21:57.14 | IriX64 | ill stop rambling now. sigh i do go on. |
| 21:58.52 | Twingy | hole? |
| 21:59.55 | IriX64 | think heat. |
| 23:25.02 | *** join/#brlcad SWPadnos_ (n=Me@dsl245.esjtvtli.sover.net) | |
| 23:27.00 | IriX64 | oh boy toasted tomatoe sandwhich with mayo.. yum |
| 23:29.20 | IriX64 | dtidrow: you worked for DEC? |
| 23:35.31 | IriX64 | No project too simple to make too complex. Quite the religion SWPadnos |
| 01:46.27 | IriX64 | just put the finishing touches on another photoshop image, wanna see ;) |
| 01:48.58 | IriX64 | bah nobody appreciates my artwork :) |
| 02:48.28 | *** join/#brlcad IriX64 (n=IriX64@bas3-sudbury98-1168050759.dsl.bell.ca) | |
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| 14:02.47 | CIA-9 | BRL-CAD: 03lbutler * 10brlcad/src/libbn/ (8 files): Doxygen comments |
| 14:05.24 | CIA-9 | BRL-CAD: 03lbutler * 10brlcad/misc/ (Doxyfile doxygen_structure): Doxygen updates for libbn |
| 14:41.19 | *** join/#brlcad clock_ (i=clock@84-72-91-57.dclient.hispeed.ch) | |
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| 21:51.24 | CIA-9 | BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/sh/shtool: go ahead and (re)quell the warning about not being able to determine bold mode |
| 21:51.58 | CIA-9 | BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/doc/README.Linux: add a section about ubuntu dependencies |
| 23:13.50 | *** join/#brlcad IriX64 (n=Who@bas3-sudbury98-1168050759.dsl.bell.ca) | |
| 23:45.10 | IriX64 | defeat at the hands of software is ignomious. |
| 23:47.05 | Maloeran | Software can be tricky at chess, better challenge it to a game of badminton |
| 23:47.41 | IriX64 | which byte is the bird? |
| 23:47.58 | IriX64 | ahhhh a whole flock of them came :) |
| 23:57.06 | IriX64 | now they're just flapping around and rotating :) |
| 23:58.26 | IriX64 | when are you guys and gals going to put up an ftp server? |
| 00:04.09 | IriX64 | mines up but you'll never get to it, i'm behind a router. |
| 01:31.46 | CIA-9 | BRL-CAD: 03johnranderson * 10brlcad/src/conv/ (dxf-g.c dxf-g.1): Added support for SPLINE entities |
| 01:50.56 | brlcad | yay, splines |
| 01:53.56 | IriX64 | spliffs too? ;) |
| 01:56.58 | Twingy | I used a spline once |
| 02:03.23 | *** join/#brlcad Twingy (n=justin@c-69-250-236-111.hsd1.md.comcast.net) | |
| 02:03.37 | IriX64 | short trip? |
| 02:26.49 | *** join/#brlcad digitalfredy (n=digitalf@200.71.62.161) | |
| 02:34.24 | *** join/#brlcad digitalfredy (n=digitalf@200.71.62.161) | |
| 02:36.46 | Twingy | to your moms house, yea |
| 03:00.00 | IriX64 | hahaha my sister's better looking. |
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| 09:39.20 | b0ef | it would be nice (and correct) if nurb.h was named nurbs.h;) |
| 09:48.52 | clock_ | non uniform rational b-something splines |
| 11:22.47 | b0ef | eh, no |
| 11:23.11 | b0ef | clock_: it's non uniform rational basis splines |
| 14:02.10 | brlcad | b0ef: that it would |
| 14:03.01 | brlcad | perhaps at the next minor update |
| 14:13.21 | ``Erik | what happened to the monthly cycle? O.o |
| 14:16.31 | brlcad | it's still on |
| 14:16.54 | brlcad | but next update is patch update, not minor |
| 14:17.06 | brlcad | which will be like today or tomorrow |
| 14:27.04 | Maloeran | Eh. How are your balls doing, Erik? :) |
| 14:27.44 | ``Erik | uhmmmmm, if you mean the metaball implementation, I haven't touched them lately |
| 14:28.21 | brlcad | heh |
| 14:28.28 | ``Erik | if you don't, I'm backing away now... |
| 14:28.34 | brlcad | but the others he has, of course |
| 14:29.18 | Maloeran | Eheh, I was wondering about the metaballs of course, seems like a tricky problem to get decent performance |
| 14:30.27 | ``Erik | I did a little performance oriented effort, but most of the work is wiring into mged correctly, it'd seem |
| 14:33.30 | ``Erik | once it all works, I'll look into making it fast :) |
| 14:34.02 | Maloeran | I was wondering, is the acceleration structure built for a particular treshold point or you can smoothly change that? |
| 14:34.34 | ``Erik | there is no acceleration structure. |
| 14:35.00 | Maloeran | I see, okay |
| 14:35.19 | ``Erik | at the moment, it does a fairly coarse walk down the ray, once it changes sign, it begins doing a crude binary search until the fine resolution is met |
| 14:35.44 | ``Erik | sorta |
| 14:38.42 | ``Erik | but I need to get the primitive editing capability completed, some crap like the tesselation capability in, etc... before I worry about that stuff |
| 14:39.09 | Maloeran | How do you expect not to miss some hits near the edge of a ball? Unless I misunderstood how you do it |
| 14:39.18 | ``Erik | oh, I miss 'em |
| 14:39.30 | Maloeran | Oh :), makes sense then |
| 14:39.41 | ``Erik | I just hope that my coarse step is small enough so it's not really visible |
| 14:40.01 | ``Erik | it LOOKS ok to my naked eye *shrug* :) |
| 14:40.02 | Maloeran | Now, that is slow |
| 14:40.16 | brlcad | yeah, crazy newtonian walking :P |
| 14:40.20 | ``Erik | surprisingly, not too terribly slow |
| 14:40.39 | ``Erik | within an order of magnitude of a straight sphere |
| 14:40.52 | ``Erik | for a single control point metaball (which produces.. a straight sphere) |
| 14:41.07 | ``Erik | and the speed is linear with regard tot he number of control points |
| 14:42.03 | Maloeran | I dreamed of that problem last night ( don't ask why, I'm weird like that ) ; I think I got some ideas for acceleration structure for large numbers of balls, though I'm sure you do as well |
| 14:42.16 | ``Erik | well, it depends on the field accuracy and formula |
| 14:42.37 | ``Erik | a common one is to use an approximation formula so you can generate bounding sphere heirarchies |
| 14:43.16 | ``Erik | <-- not there, yet... some people want to use the primitive yesterday, so I gotta get the primitive editing abilities finished first |
| 14:43.25 | ``Erik | and they can throw big hardware at it and wait a bit :) |
| 14:43.30 | Maloeran | *nods* Let's talk about it later then |
| 15:14.48 | CIA-9 | BRL-CAD: 03lbutler * 10brlcad/src/libbu/ (22 files): Doxygen updates |
| 15:15.47 | CIA-9 | BRL-CAD: 03lbutler * 10brlcad/src/libbn/ (font.c list.c marker.c msr.c): Doxygen updates |
| 15:17.01 | CIA-9 | BRL-CAD: 03lbutler * 10brlcad/include/ (bn.h bu.h vmath.h): Doxygen updates |
| 15:17.59 | Maloeran | Seems I know where to find good examples of the desired Doxygen format now |
| 15:18.06 | CIA-9 | BRL-CAD: 03lbutler * 10brlcad/misc/doxygen_structure: Doxygen updates |
| 15:18.38 | brlcad | he's been on a binge lately |
| 15:18.46 | brlcad | probably after talking to you |
| 15:20.06 | brlcad | heh, barely a single commit for like 6 months and then a slew of these |
| 15:20.20 | brlcad | the extra doxygen organization is pretty cool though, I must say |
| 15:20.32 | Maloeran | I'm not familiar with the "on a binge" expression, can you express the same idea in other words? |
| 15:20.42 | brlcad | ~dict binge |
| 15:21.19 | Maloeran | I read that, it just didn't seem excessively clear |
| 15:21.24 | brlcad | ahh |
| 15:21.35 | brlcad | it's just doing something "excessive" |
| 15:21.42 | Maloeran | Right, thanks |
| 15:21.46 | brlcad | like not commiting hardly at all in a year |
| 15:21.59 | brlcad | and now suddenly committing a lot in the span of a week |
| 15:22.14 | brlcad | then he'll probably be back to no more coding soon enouch ;) |
| 15:23.13 | Maloeran | :) He also wrote code to ease extracting BRL-CAD geometry for me |
| 15:28.51 | brlcad | that's code already written ;) |
| 15:28.58 | ``Erik | binge&purge |
| 15:29.07 | ``Erik | he copied and gutted code, he didn't really write anything :) |
| 15:29.16 | brlcad | just pulling from the 50+ examples in the converters/ray-tracers/examples, etc ;) |
| 15:29.18 | ``Erik | g-stl.c I'd imagine |
| 15:30.12 | brlcad | though nice to "trim it out" of course |
| 15:30.28 | Maloeran | Aw, don't try to ruin my illusions of a both zealous and competent manager :) |
| 15:30.41 | brlcad | i'm baffled why someone hasn't made the standard "convert from implicit to poly" into a function yet |
| 15:30.56 | brlcad | there's like 10 converters that do the exact same code |
| 15:31.06 | ``Erik | I mentioned it, he said it was all already written, just copy and edit |
| 15:31.06 | ``Erik | ... |
| 15:31.42 | brlcad | exposed? |
| 15:31.57 | ``Erik | opposed to static |
| 15:32.03 | brlcad | the calls are exposed.. the glue function just doesn't exist |
| 15:32.14 | brlcad | what's static that you need? |
| 15:32.23 | brlcad | s/need/use/ |
| 15:32.39 | Maloeran | The chunks of BRL-CAD I read were fairly good code, but I'm clearly missing most of the big picture |
| 15:34.15 | ``Erik | erm, nothing to my knowledge, I just meant that I should be able to grab one function on a tree and get a tree of polygon crap and the info I might need in the structs *shrug* :) |
| 15:35.10 | brlcad | you can go from nmg to triangle with just one cal |
| 15:35.45 | brlcad | but it's just odd that you can't go from code to triangle or even node to nmg -- all the converters do the same walk_tree |
| 15:36.11 | brlcad | Maloeran: most of the code is actually relatively exceptionally well given it's size |
| 15:36.54 | Maloeran | Quite true brlcad, I was surprised |
| 15:36.56 | brlcad | it's just "given it's size", you *will* find loads of feature creep and a need for refactoring where it hasn't yet happened |
| 15:37.14 | ``Erik | and archaic ways of doing things and syntax |
| 15:37.32 | brlcad | and the "oh, this tool does what I need" .. copy, edit, done |
| 15:37.45 | brlcad | sans refactoring into a function/library call |
| 15:37.51 | Maloeran | Yes, I read code that could break nicely on 64 bits when accessing over 4gb... Simple flaws, such as conversions between pointers and int |
| 15:38.34 | ``Erik | hrmmm, on most of the 64b arch's we deal with, int is 8byte, same as pointer, iirc |
| 15:38.40 | ``Erik | amd64 and ia64 are "weird" |
| 15:39.02 | Maloeran | Hence why ptrdiff_t and intptr_t exist |
| 15:39.35 | Maloeran | On amd64 on windows, even long is 32 bits ( or it would break backwards compatibility in their headers ) |
| 15:42.08 | ``Erik | hum, irix/r12k with -64 shows int as 32 and long as 64, funky, I thought both were 64b |
| 15:42.14 | brlcad | yeah, there's a general lack of std types since most of the code well predates stdint and family |
| 15:42.59 | Maloeran | *nods* They couldn't really do better back then, and their assumptions on data types made sense |
| 15:47.40 | brlcad | it would be nice to assume stdint/stddef availability, that would take care of some of the issues |
| 15:47.54 | brlcad | though machine.h still needs to be decommisioned before that could happen |
| 15:48.35 | brlcad | and I don't think they were c89, so it'd require a jump to c99 iirc too |
| 15:48.46 | brlcad | and that's a different ball of wax altogether |
| 15:49.48 | brlcad | and in the big scheme of things, just not nearly as important as many other things that need to be worked on |
| 15:52.59 | Maloeran | Right, it will be required at some point to handle big datasets |
| 15:54.35 | brlcad | well it does handle big datasets now, at least in the ray-tracer and db layer |
| 15:54.46 | brlcad | just maybe not on amd64 on windows |
| 15:55.09 | brlcad | and maybe not for a particular tool or few |
| 15:55.35 | brlcad | that's the problem with large codebases.. you can almost always find an exception that doesn't "comply" ;) |
| 16:02.11 | IriX64 | the c2, a true 128 bit machine :) |
| 16:02.48 | Maloeran | 128 bits memory addressing? |
| 16:02.56 | IriX64 | cpu |
| 16:03.29 | IriX64 | thats for spewing nonsense :) |
| 16:04.48 | IriX64 | whats this? building 64-bit was requested but the build seems to be non 64bit. |
| 16:05.41 | IriX64 | what do you care what its running on eh? |
| 16:05.57 | IriX64 | let me cross it will you. :) |
| 16:06.22 | IriX64 | want to use your 64 bit code... wait i see the problem. |
| 16:06.37 | IriX64 | you need to know don't you? |
| 16:06.59 | IriX64 | ill cross it from the generic code. |
| 16:07.15 | IriX64 | heh thanks for the compliment. |
| 16:07.50 | Maloeran | Seriously, what are you babbling about? :) |
| 16:08.04 | IriX64 | --ignore the machine specific 64 bit code. |
| 16:08.19 | IriX64 | im trying to cross compoile BRLCAD. |
| 16:08.24 | IriX64 | compile too. |
| 16:08.44 | Maloeran | Ah, right |
| 16:09.15 | IriX64 | when my c2 comes in ill be able to runtime test this thing ;) |
| 16:10.06 | brlcad | babbling is quite appropriate.. I sometimes have NO idea what it is you go on about, incoherent statements |
| 16:10.22 | brlcad | you really shouldn't |
| 16:10.29 | brlcad | it does get distracting/annoying |
| 16:10.37 | IriX64 | you have to read from top left at an angle to bottom right :) |
| 16:10.58 | brlcad | see, just what the hell does that mean? :) |
| 16:11.48 | IriX64 | never read codes and secert writings, im just making my brand of humor jokes hoping someone will catch them. |
| 16:12.26 | brlcad | the jokes are a bit too think sometimes I think, or out of context |
| 16:12.48 | IriX64 | if im serious about something ill preface it with seriously.... (probably never happen) |
| 16:12.49 | ``Erik | sorry, none of us smoke pot, especially not in the quantities required to get your brand of humor ;) |
| 16:13.00 | IriX64 | biggest doobies you've ever seen :) |
| 16:13.30 | IriX64 | and its early. |
| 16:13.53 | IriX64 | wine tipped? Try wine dipped. :) |
| 16:15.05 | IriX64 | seriously... im trying out my CFLAGS='-DWITHOUTCYGWIN' flag, see if you can figure out what it's supposed to do. |
| 16:15.23 | brlcad | again another example of a statement that just doesn't compile .. i've never heard of wine tipped doobies if that's what you meant, so wine dipped doobie means nothing.. :) |
| 16:15.32 | IriX64 | :) |
| 16:16.05 | Maloeran | Tried -mno-cygwin? You should never need a define for that |
| 16:16.34 | IriX64 | that doesn't exist (yet but it might, thanks) |
| 16:17.04 | IriX64 | -m is taken tho theres a lot already there. |
| 16:17.45 | brlcad | cross-compilation for different bit lengths won't likely work very well fwiw |
| 16:17.55 | IriX64 | maybe i erred, you saying your compiler supports -mno-cygwin? |
| 16:18.17 | brlcad | gcc under cygwin should support that option |
| 16:18.21 | IriX64 | brlcad: true attack from generic code wherever possible. |
| 16:18.58 | IriX64 | brlcad now whos being obtusde. |
| 16:19.04 | IriX64 | obtuse too. |
| 16:19.48 | brlcad | er, still you -- what do you mean? |
| 16:20.01 | IriX64 | if these binaries crash on my system ill be ever so happy. |
| 16:20.17 | IriX64 | explain -mno-cygwin. |
| 16:21.08 | brlcad | it's just a compiler option, see http://www.delorie.com/howto/cygwin/mno-cygwin-howto.html |
| 16:21.45 | brlcad | basically, drops you down to just the core, i.e. what's in mingw |
| 16:22.18 | IriX64 | brlcad: i don't give a *shit about windows binaries. |
| 16:23.11 | IriX64 | ill visit windoze at a later date. |
| 16:24.38 | brlcad | has less to do with windows binaries than it does to do with that compiler in that environment |
| 16:24.56 | IriX64 | i like my approach better. |
| 16:25.50 | IriX64 | $ CFLAGS='-DWITHOUTCYGWIN' ./configure --enable-almost-everything --with-x --wi |
| 16:25.50 | IriX64 | th-math --enable-optimizations --disable-shared --prefix=/usr/craycad --host=c2 |
| 16:25.50 | IriX64 | -cray-unicos |
| 16:26.02 | IriX64 | will taht configure and compile? |
| 16:27.13 | IriX64 | i know, i know, i was told about pasting, mea culpa.. |
| 16:27.21 | brlcad | it probably will, but it's not going to give you a cross-compiled binary |
| 16:27.28 | IriX64 | bets? |
| 16:28.16 | brlcad | heh, not one that'll work |
| 16:28.30 | IriX64 | a bet that will work? :) |
| 16:29.08 | IriX64 | you're right i'll get *many binaries, not just one ;) |
| 16:29.17 | brlcad | machine.h is hard-coded for detected compilation environments, cross-compiling isn't going to provide all the right flags it needs |
| 16:29.51 | brlcad | ergo *crash* is what you're going to get if it's not cross-compiled for a platform with matching specs |
| 16:30.29 | brlcad | specs being bit depths, byte orders, byte offsets, etc |
| 16:30.41 | IriX64 | my compiler supports different machines, i run configure and parse it on the fly to configure my compilers and linkers accordingly. |
| 16:30.53 | brlcad | not to mention the configure checks for sanity on the bit depths (which is what you ran into earlier) |
| 16:31.08 | IriX64 | thats why i like a clean generic code line whereever possible. |
| 16:31.52 | ``Erik | stave it off, 1 2 3, now you can count to three... |
| 16:31.58 | brlcad | well, this is optimized and mostly pretty compiler generic code, but that doesn't mean it'll cross-compile and work ;) |
| 16:32.33 | IriX64 | traditional cross compile you're right you guys bail at a simple check of setpgrp. :) |
| 16:32.59 | IriX64 | my way it does produce appropriate code. |
| 16:33.12 | brlcad | and you've verified this how? |
| 16:33.13 | IriX64 | people coming in ill be back in 15. |
| 16:33.44 | brlcad | i'm betting "appropriate" means that the compile simply didn't fail for you |
| 16:34.02 | brlcad | which is far from appropriate, and even farther from functional on that cross-compile platform |
| 16:34.06 | Twingy | along with bert n' ernie |
| 16:34.20 | ``Erik | sean, didja get a build on that vax11/780 simh image? |
| 16:35.10 | Twingy | 21.1 jigavgr's |
| 16:35.10 | brlcad | i did, barley, but that was years ago.. not recent |
| 16:35.28 | ``Erik | ah, just recently you were installing netbsd on a simh image, I thought |
| 16:37.16 | brlcad | no no.. i was saying it'd be cool because I did install netbsd pretty easily a couple years ago |
| 16:37.45 | ``Erik | ah |
| 16:37.54 | brlcad | the compile gave a bit of a hassle then, but the autotools stuff wasn't all sorted out back then |
| 16:37.56 | ``Erik | <-- was too busy playing with lisp on a pdp1 |
| 16:38.52 | brlcad | hmm.. i could toss up simh into parallels here.. that would save some of the setup time i had to do on os x for it last time |
| 16:39.31 | ``Erik | hm, attaching all the devices and stuff? |
| 16:40.36 | brlcad | well that and just getting simh to compile wasn't clean either |
| 16:41.10 | brlcad | had to write some code to get it to compile, and I don't recall all the details .. |
| 16:41.34 | brlcad | looks like there was a guy that provided a slew of pdp11 and vax bug fixes this summer.. swett |
| 16:42.03 | ``Erik | http://www.homestarrunner.com/disk4of12.html |
| 16:42.23 | ``Erik | hrm, I was doing it on fbsd, so "make install" was all I had to do |
| 16:43.46 | IriX64 | may i give you a superficial look at project cassandra? this'll take a moment to type in. |
| 16:46.11 | brlcad | heh |
| 16:46.21 | IriX64 | when configure runs i trap the checks and based on either the build switch or the hhost switc (not both) i either provide the build environmnment as accuratly as possible providing things that are needed if i have them or providing a generic if i dont (if i have neither im dead ) and for the host i try to provide as nearly as possible what is requried to actually cross-compile for that machine in much the same way, the results are stored |
| 16:46.44 | IriX64 | and the compiler reads that file in so it and the linker knows what ist doing. |
| 16:46.53 | IriX64 | ipc at its best. |
| 16:47.38 | brlcad | (on freebsd) |
| 16:47.56 | brlcad | *trying to ignore the peasant distraction |
| 16:48.02 | Twingy | remember the sparc ipc's those things were crap |
| 16:48.59 | IriX64 | peasants quest???? |
| 16:49.24 | IriX64 | err twingy? define ipc. |
| 16:50.10 | IriX64 | my ipc is inter-process communication (cheap variety) |
| 17:27.14 | ValarQ | STM! |
| 17:27.43 | ValarQ | http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Software_transactional_memory |
| 17:31.09 | ``Erik | "chad vader", awesome |
| 17:31.19 | ``Erik | http://youtube.com/watch?v=4wGR4-SeuJ0 |
| 18:47.53 | brlcad | heh pretty funny |
| 18:48.02 | brlcad | ahh, yes, stdint is c99 |
| 18:48.13 | brlcad | tough nuggies |
| 19:14.40 | IriX64 | shouldn't that be noogies :) |
| 19:25.09 | brlcad | in some contexts |
| 19:27.13 | ``Erik | heh, klingons? |
| 19:27.20 | IriX64 | for(i=0;i<strlen(string);i++){if((string[i]) == 'x');puts("End of the world has been found\n");} |
| 19:27.38 | IriX64 | err -; |
| 19:28.37 | ``Erik | (for-each (lambda (x) (if (= 'x' x) (display "End of world"))) (string-chars string)) |
| 19:28.38 | ``Erik | ptbtbbtt |
| 19:28.41 | IriX64 | can use *string+i too |
| 19:29.13 | IriX64 | thought we spoke c here not lisp :) |
| 19:29.21 | ``Erik | that would be scheme, not lisp |
| 19:29.28 | IriX64 | my mistake |
| 19:29.42 | IriX64 | boot me this deserves a kick but not the ban. |
| 19:30.05 | ``Erik | /kill IriX64 learn your languages |
| 19:30.14 | IriX64 | heh |
| 19:30.23 | IriX64 | im language challenged. |
| 19:30.29 | ``Erik | no? k: perhaps? or possibly g:? |
| 19:30.42 | IriX64 | y rather thann x. |
| 19:31.01 | IriX64 | back to klingonese. |
| 19:33.27 | IriX64 | ``Erik you thought the end of world thing is what i was trying to do? |
| 19:33.47 | IriX64 | im searching for x. |
| 19:33.54 | IriX64 | in a string. |
| 19:34.55 | IriX64 | lst line should read return(printf("end of world not found\n")); |
| 19:34.59 | IriX64 | last too. |
| 19:35.57 | brlcad | and stating |
| 19:36.01 | brlcad | the obvious about |
| 19:36.12 | IriX64 | that means what? |
| 19:36.15 | brlcad | one line of code with 8 lines of explanation |
| 19:36.31 | ``Erik | char *s = string; while(*s++)if(*s=='x')printf("end world here"); |
| 19:36.36 | ``Erik | learn pointers :D |
| 19:36.59 | IriX64 | you forgot the alloca :) |
| 19:37.13 | ``Erik | why? I don't want to duplicate the string o.O |
| 19:37.35 | IriX64 | allocation on initialization then ? |
| 19:38.03 | IriX64 | char * mystring="end of world here \0"; |
| 19:38.42 | ``Erik | sure |
| 19:38.48 | ``Erik | or argv[1] for all I care |
| 19:38.49 | ``Erik | :D |
| 19:38.56 | IriX64 | few people realize mystring should be freed. |
| 19:39.19 | ``Erik | uh, char *blah="cow"; free(blah); should not compile. |
| 19:39.30 | IriX64 | bets? |
| 19:39.50 | ``Erik | the string will be retained in bss, which should not have any allocation/deallocation inside of main |
| 19:40.05 | brlcad | er, it'll compile |
| 19:40.10 | ``Erik | hrm, it compiled on my mac |
| 19:40.20 | ``Erik | but, naturally, fails horribly when ran |
| 19:40.27 | brlcad | yeah, can't free a static |
| 19:40.38 | IriX64 | you didnt say static. |
| 19:41.10 | IriX64 | autoallocas *should be freed. |
| 19:41.16 | brlcad | s/static/string literal/ |
| 19:41.23 | brlcad | same difference |
| 19:41.23 | ``Erik | that you explained it as a "string" says it's bss, resides in static program data space |
| 19:41.27 | IriX64 | except for alloca apil foolf running hard..... |
| 19:41.41 | IriX64 | april too. :) |
| 19:41.47 | ``Erik | and should NOT have any memory ops happen on it inside of main() |
| 19:42.03 | IriX64 | its the return ``Erik |
| 19:42.17 | IriX64 | a lot of times the system knows what its doing. |
| 19:43.23 | IriX64 | cow ``Erik :) |
| 19:43.29 | IriX64 | ? |
| 19:43.57 | ``Erik | copy on write is unrelated |
| 19:44.14 | IriX64 | thought that was ValarQ's specialty she drew such a pretty one. |
| 19:44.58 | ``Erik | aaannndddd back out to left field. |
| 19:45.06 | IriX64 | right!!!!!!! |
| 19:45.22 | IriX64 | blargh it smoke break time. |
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| 01:46.51 | IriX64 | make -i |
| 01:46.59 | IriX64 | whoa. |
| 02:18.05 | CIA-9 | BRL-CAD: 03lbutler * 10brlcad/src/libbn/number.c: doxygen updates |
| 02:19.39 | CIA-9 | BRL-CAD: 03lbutler * 10brlcad/src/libbn/number.c: Since it wasn't used anywhere, it seemed time for it to go to the attic |
| 02:23.15 | CIA-9 | BRL-CAD: 03lbutler * 10brlcad/src/libbn/Makefile.am: Removed number.c |
| 02:44.06 | *** join/#brlcad IriX64 (n=IriX64@bas3-sudbury98-1168051987.dsl.bell.ca) | |
| 02:44.48 | IriX64 | just had a nasty thought, is there some way for me to know when a commit is about to happen so i dont clutter the channel with my ramblings? |
| 02:50.57 | IriX64 | hah desire` desire` anybody know it? |
| 03:09.03 | brlcad | best to just not "clutter the channel" regardless .. |
| 03:09.24 | IriX64 | so how do we chat and kibitz? :) |
| 03:25.02 | Twingy | IriX64, if it's any consolation, I woulda banned your ass months ago :) |
| 03:25.08 | IriX64 | thenk you sir. |
| 03:26.29 | Twingy | Instead of trying so hard to get on sean's good side, do something useful or stop wasting our time... |
| 03:26.55 | IriX64 | sean *has a good side ?:) |
| 03:28.29 | Twingy | you will find I have little compassion for lackey's |
| 03:29.06 | IriX64 | how about brass? :P |
| 03:32.23 | Twingy | there's always one really annoying person in 5 of the 7 irc channels I hang out on |
| 03:33.03 | Twingy | then there's the guy that beats the drum of his own percussion section |
| 03:33.32 | Twingy | and back to coding on gcam, toodles |
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| 03:51.55 | brlcad | heh |
| 03:55.19 | Twingy | not explicitly you weren't |
| 04:00.35 | brlcad | huh? |
| 04:00.51 | brlcad | you? me? I wasn't explicitly doing anything afaik |
| 04:02.11 | brlcad | ooh, i get it .. nah, I meant that *he* as in irix guy wasn't "trying" much of anything |
| 04:02.46 | brlcad | you sait he was trying to get on my good side, I don't think he tries anything except maybe to get attention |
| 04:03.09 | brlcad | and just happens to be frickin' bizzare |
| 04:43.11 | CIA-9 | BRL-CAD: 03lbutler * 10brlcad/src/libbn/ (noise.c plane.c plot3.c poly.c qmath.c rand.c): Doxygen updates |
| 04:44.02 | CIA-9 | BRL-CAD: 03lbutler * 10brlcad/include/bn.h: Doxygen updates |
| 05:13.14 | CIA-9 | BRL-CAD: 03lbutler * 10brlcad/src/libbn/const.c: Deleted gratuitous extra open-brace after doxygen comment |
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| 12:59.43 | ``Erik | damn there was a lot of clutter in the backlog... why do I even bother reading those? :) |
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| 16:00.32 | brlcad | ``Erik: heh |
| 16:01.06 | brlcad | what the hell are you doing up at 9am? needed another shot to put yourself back to sleep? :) |
| 16:10.50 | ``Erik | heh, I'm always awake by nine, usually by 7... and I haven't had liquor in days o.O |
| 16:11.20 | ``Erik | now, I did have a beer last night (just one), so I can't make the claim that I haven't had alcohol in days, but *shrug* |
| 16:19.38 | brlcad | hmm i actually haven't had liquor since siggraph... *gasp* |
| 16:19.43 | Maloeran | Nice, Erik :) |
| 16:20.34 | brlcad | getting ready for the competition has kept me dry... |
| 16:21.19 | Maloeran | Out of curiosity, are you going to that raytracing conference in 2 weeks, brlcad? Or is it only Lee, Erik and myself? |
| 16:23.49 | Maloeran | The program sure is not too inspiring |
| 16:25.16 | brlcad | i'm going |
| 16:25.38 | brlcad | probably have to register at the last moment though |
| 16:25.51 | Maloeran | I haven't registered myself yet either |
| 16:26.20 | brlcad | it's a ieee, can't expect too much ;) |
| 16:26.52 | Maloeran | There doesn't seem to be anything new in the program, it's all covered by a dozen papers all over the place o.O |
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| 17:46.51 | brlcad | woo hoo.. |
| 17:47.55 | brlcad | looks like configure is going to take 20 min |
| 18:03.46 | ``Erik | heh |
| 18:03.52 | ``Erik | and then two weeks to compile? ;) |
| 18:04.35 | brlcad | i'm thinking it might actually already be throttled to the speed of the fax |
| 18:04.47 | brlcad | so yeah.. maybe |
| 18:06.01 | brlcad | i wasn't even sure it was working at first -- i ran configure and saw no output after two minutes.. then ran ./configure --help and waited.. took about 3-4 min to display the help :) |
| 18:06.40 | brlcad | it's been "checking the maximum length of command line arguments" for about 5 minutes now |
| 18:09.03 | brlcad | hmm... i think 20 minutes was optimistic |
| 18:20.37 | ``Erik | is there any way to goof the speed for the compile sequence? or do you actually want those #'s? :) |
| 18:21.34 | ``Erik | http://motherfuckingrecipes.com heh |
| 18:59.46 | brlcad | heh, it's still checking thelength of comand line args.. |
| 19:00.50 | brlcad | simh is running full-steam according to a cpu monitor.. won't really know for sure about the timing until I can get a benchmark |
| 19:03.59 | brlcad | could just be that certain operations, like I/O is extremely expensive |
| 19:29.04 | brlcad | woot, done cheaking headers |
| 19:29.45 | Twingy | I might be done gcam by the time you're done compiling |
| 19:31.20 | *** join/#brlcad clock_ (i=clock@84-72-92-118.dclient.hispeed.ch) | |
| 19:33.41 | ``Erik | but will gcam be on hw that can be measured in dollars per ton? :D |
| 19:33.46 | *** join/#brlcad TDyess (n=chatzill@27.36.33.65.cfl.res.rr.com) | |
| 19:34.20 | ``Erik | http://www.cookingforengineers.com neat |
| 19:34.26 | brlcad | screw gflops and mflops, long live flops |
| 19:35.02 | brlcad | heh |
| 19:35.13 | ``Erik | I'll call it... miniflop |
| 19:35.17 | ``Erik | <-- holds his pinky to his lip |
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| 01:45.06 | brlcad | heh, "Elapsed configuration time ...........: 2 hours, 32 minutes, 44 seconds" |
| 03:19.51 | Maloeran | Most impressive :) |
| 03:30.47 | dtidrow | configuration for what? |
| 04:20.27 | CIA-9 | BRL-CAD: 03lbutler * 10brlcad/src/libbn/ (9 files): Doxygen comment formatting |
| 04:22.11 | CIA-9 | BRL-CAD: 03lbutler * 10brlcad/misc/doxygen_structure: removed bn_list group |
| 06:06.24 | brlcad | dtidrow: "./configure" took that long (something that usually takes 1-5 minutes) |
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| 15:06.24 | ``Erik | sweet, 2.5 hrs to run a quick little script |
| 15:06.56 | brlcad | :) |
| 15:12.35 | *** join/#brlcad ValarQ (i=vq@90-225-114-111-no122.tbcn.telia.com) | |
| 15:16.01 | ``Erik | is it still compiling? |
| 15:28.02 | brlcad | oh most definitely |
| 15:39.30 | Maloeran | A bit early to guess how better the scene preparation is in comparison to the old prototype |
| 15:42.18 | clock_ | good, better, best, bester |
| 15:51.04 | Maloeran | A good motto this is |
| 17:29.15 | ``Erik | bestest |
| 17:37.18 | brlcad | bestest failed |
| 18:01.11 | CIA-9 | BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/libdm/dm_obj.c: windows interface is no longer tied to X interface, so use DM_X correspondingly |
| 19:31.21 | ``Erik | heh |
| 22:20.38 | CIA-9 | BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/TODO: add some means to disable/minimize libfft on systems that don't have enough memory to compile the larger filters. |
| 22:28.01 | CIA-9 | BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/rt/sh_tcl.c: remove unused buf arrays and other unused vars |
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| 23:06.13 | *** part/#brlcad danex (n=david@adsl-156-96-31.asm.bellsouth.net) | |
| 23:49.13 | CIA-9 | BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/rt/rt.1: remove equine excrement statement about there being no maximum size limit |
| 23:57.45 | ``Erik | equine, or bovine? |
| 23:58.18 | dtidrow_work | either way, it's still excrement ;-) |
| 00:01.06 | ``Erik | mebbe the line should've been changed to reflect the true limit of 32k ? |
| 00:01.14 | Twingy | "It seems that Wolfgang Priklopil, the communications technician who kidnapped Austrian pre-teen Natascha Kampusch, relied on a Commodore 64 as his primary machine. Interestingly this is presenting some problems to the Austrian computer forensics people. Major General Gerhard Lang of the Federal Criminal Investigations Bureau told reporters it would 'complicate investigators' efforts' and would be difficult to transfer the files to m |
| 00:01.14 | Twingy | odern computers 'without loss.' Could this be the latest in the criminal world's security strategy? Can we expect to see Spectrums, Archimedes, and Atari STs turning up in police investigations soon?" |
| 00:01.41 | ``Erik | heh |
| 00:02.04 | ``Erik | damnit, twinky, what'd we tell you about kidnapping preteens? |
| 00:02.30 | ``Erik | (and c64 or sx64?) |
| 00:02.44 | Twingy | I aint looking |
| 00:03.14 | ``Erik | you dredged up an sx64 back in your apt, I dont' remember seeing a c64 :) |
| 00:04.23 | dtidrow_work | Twingy: you have an sx64? I so wanted one of those back when I was in college |
| 00:04.29 | CIA-9 | BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/BUGS: more details on the bizarre -s64 bug |
| 00:04.41 | Twingy | says the sophomore who buys a sports car during a war on oil |
| 00:05.13 | dtidrow_work | I oughta fire up the old Indigo I have and see if it still runs |
| 00:05.14 | Twingy | dtidrow, a co-worker from my last employer gave it to me |
| 00:05.15 | ``Erik | I'm special hurrrrrr |
| 00:05.43 | dtidrow_work | haven't turned it on in years |
| 00:05.49 | Twingy | I have wheel of fortune |
| 00:05.52 | ``Erik | I thought the war was on tar, that's used to make roads, not fuel cars |
| 00:08.44 | dtidrow_work | that reminds me - did you guys see this: http://www.physics.uq.edu.au/pitchdrop/pitchdrop.shtml |
| 00:45.40 | Maloeran | Mmhm, neat |
| 00:46.32 | dtidrow_work | watching paint dry is nothing compared to watching pitch drip :-) |
| 01:21.24 | *** join/#brlcad IriX64 (n=IriX64@bas3-sudbury98-1168051987.dsl.bell.ca) | |
| 01:23.24 | ``Erik | glass does the same thing *shrug* |
| 01:43.11 | IriX64 | glass of? ;) |
| 01:43.55 | IriX64 | perhaps he prefers bottle of? :) |
| 01:49.09 | ``Erik | no, like, window panes |
| 01:49.11 | ``Erik | fucktard |
| 01:49.12 | ``Erik | :) |
| 01:49.47 | IriX64 | hrmph, only if yoyu're a woman will I accepts that. :) |
| 01:50.34 | IriX64 | windows can't afford any more pain ``Erik :) |
| 01:50.42 | IriX64 | pains too |
| 01:51.33 | IriX64 | smokity break. |
| 01:52.18 | Maloeran | ``Erik, it's more interesting when it's at room temperature :} |
| 01:53.35 | ``Erik | mal: windows at room temperature are fluid... if you look at a hundred year old window pane, it's thicker at the bottom than the top |
| 01:55.49 | Maloeran | Woah. I see, I really didn't know that |
| 02:03.38 | IriX64 | unless its plexiglass. |
| 02:05.23 | IriX64 | did you people ever look at the files I sent to ftp.brlcad.org some time ago? |
| 02:30.33 | ``Erik | no. |
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| 15:38.33 | *** topic/#brlcad is http://brlcad.org/ || BRL-CAD is an open source solid modeling software suite || Developers needed! Read the HACKING file for details on getting involved | |
| 16:02.30 | *** join/#brlcad mauryzyo (n=fuysokoa@151.57.101.25) | |
| 16:02.38 | mauryzyo | hello everybody |
| 16:02.56 | mauryzyo | I have a problem in the installation of brl-cad |
| 16:03.12 | mauryzyo | is there anybody that could help? |
| 16:05.54 | mauryzyo | is it possible to install brl-cad in the Applications directory? |
| 16:08.21 | Maloeran | What operating system would that be? Compiling from source or installing binaries? |
| 16:11.27 | ``Erik | "Applications" directory is very much a mac thing, afaik |
| 16:12.19 | mauryzyo | I have mac osx |
| 16:12.20 | ``Erik | you should be able to install brlcad anywhere you have write and execute permission, so /Applications is ok, but brlcad does not have a bundle, so it's not friendly to how finder works... |
| 16:12.46 | mauryzyo | erik... no problem |
| 16:13.00 | mauryzyo | I can install it where you want |
| 16:13.17 | mauryzyo | but I don't know how |
| 16:13.17 | mauryzyo | I have the file .pkg |
| 16:13.26 | mauryzyo | I have run the .pkg |
| 16:13.32 | mauryzyo | then I go to terminal |
| 16:13.40 | mauryzyo | and I go to /usr |
| 16:13.52 | mauryzyo | and there there is the brlcad folder |
| 16:13.53 | mauryzyo | ok |
| 16:14.01 | ``Erik | export PATH=$PATH:/usr/brlcad/bin |
| 16:14.04 | mauryzyo | <PROTECTED> |
| 16:14.05 | ``Erik | then you can run "mged" |
| 16:14.15 | ``Erik | you MIGHT need to be running X11.app |
| 16:14.24 | mauryzyo | I have x11 |
| 16:14.49 | mauryzyo | but... if I go to /usr/brlcad/bin |
| 16:14.56 | mauryzyo | ther eis not a file mged |
| 16:15.01 | ``Erik | mebbe it's mged.sh |
| 16:15.05 | ``Erik | ? |
| 16:16.09 | mauryzyo | when I go to /usr/brlcad/bin |
| 16:16.16 | mauryzyo | I write ls -i |
| 16:16.29 | mauryzyo | it tells me that there are no files |
| 16:16.32 | mauryzyo | nothing... |
| 16:17.19 | ``Erik | :o |
| 16:17.43 | mauryzyo | I don't understand where the problem is |
| 16:17.46 | ``Erik | sounds like maybe the pkg is broken? was it really a pkg, not just a dmg with a directory to drag? |
| 16:17.53 | mauryzyo | if I made mistakes during the installation process |
| 16:18.08 | mauryzyo | a pkg |
| 16:18.20 | ``Erik | hrm, brlcad would be the guy to talk to about that |
| 16:18.39 | ``Erik | if you lurk long enough, he'll look at irc again *shrgu* |
| 16:20.48 | mauryzyo | erik.. |
| 16:21.07 | mauryzyo | could you give me the right link and I retry to reinstall it? |
| 16:21.24 | ``Erik | right link? I always build mine from source... |
| 16:21.47 | ``Erik | if you want to do that, http://prdownloads.sourceforge.net/brlcad/brlcad-7.8.2.tar.gz?download |
| 16:22.17 | ``Erik | then untar it, go into the dir, run "./configure && make && make install" |
| 16:22.30 | ``Erik | then go have a nice cup of coffee and read the morning paper, cuz it'll take a while |
| 16:22.58 | mauryzyo | ok Erik I download it |
| 16:23.12 | mauryzyo | and then please assist me during the installation |
| 16:23.22 | mauryzyo | I need this program absolutely |
| 16:23.23 | mauryzyo | :-)))) |
| 16:24.06 | ``Erik | <-- just gave you the q&d 'how to install', plus the source package has a file named INSTALL |
| 16:25.29 | mauryzyo | ok |
| 16:25.42 | mauryzyo | but it is one day that I try... |
| 16:25.55 | mauryzyo | I have downloaded it now |
| 16:28.26 | mauryzyo | sorry but... |
| 16:28.29 | mauryzyo | x11 |
| 16:28.40 | mauryzyo | is a windows server? |
| 16:28.54 | mauryzyo | Do I have to install it in my mac osx? |
| 16:29.25 | ``Erik | yesh, the X windowing system, unix for graphics... if you have tiger (10.4), it should be on your install dvd |
| 16:30.11 | mauryzyo | ok |
| 16:30.23 | mauryzyo | I have seen that I already have this program |
| 16:30.30 | mauryzyo | in the Applications folder |
| 16:30.37 | mauryzyo | I never used if before |
| 16:30.44 | mauryzyo | now... |
| 16:30.56 | mauryzyo | I downloaded the file you gave to me |
| 16:31.02 | mauryzyo | I opened it |
| 16:31.18 | mauryzyo | and there is a folder brlcad-7.8.2 |
| 16:31.28 | mauryzyo | I hope all is ok |
| 16:31.40 | ``Erik | go in there, and run "./configure" |
| 16:32.14 | mauryzyo | ok |
| 16:32.17 | mauryzyo | with x11? |
| 16:32.28 | mauryzyo | Do I open x11 before? |
| 16:32.28 | ``Erik | either an xterm or a Terminal.app |
| 16:32.32 | ``Erik | it doesn't matter at this point |
| 16:32.38 | mauryzyo | ok |
| 16:32.46 | ``Erik | <-- likes xterm more than Terminal.app :) |
| 16:33.01 | mauryzyo | I open the Terminal |
| 16:33.16 | mauryzyo | I go to the folder brlcad-7.8.2 |
| 16:33.28 | mauryzyo | and I run |
| 16:33.29 | mauryzyo | ./configure |
| 16:33.38 | mauryzyo | I write ./configure |
| 16:34.15 | ``Erik | lots of text scroll, I hope |
| 16:36.54 | mauryzyo | I did |
| 16:36.55 | mauryzyo | configure: error: no acceptable C compiler found in $PATH |
| 16:37.26 | ``Erik | ooh, you need the developer kit installed, get it from your install dvd, sorry hehehe |
| 16:38.37 | mauryzyo | what? |
| 16:39.06 | ``Erik | "xcode" |
| 16:39.12 | mauryzyo | It is too much difficult for me |
| 16:39.17 | mauryzyo | to install this program |
| 16:41.54 | Maloeran | The package for OSX binaries out of the sourceforge files doesn't work? That's what you used, right? |
| 16:43.09 | ``Erik | apparently brlcad/bin was empty, alexis... *shrug* |
| 16:44.11 | Maloeran | Just making sure he used the official package and not some other, but I don't suppose there are dozen package management systems on OSX as on Linux |
| 16:45.01 | ``Erik | well, there's a few big mechanisms on mac... the pkg system, the bundle drag&drop way, the 'installshield' and 'installit' third party apps... :/ |
| 16:46.49 | ``Erik | installing... |
| 16:47.06 | ``Erik | hm |
| 16:47.10 | ``Erik | I see a very full /usr/brlcad/bin |
| 16:47.21 | ``Erik | <PROTECTED> |
| 16:47.30 | ``Erik | /usr/brlcad/bin$ ls | wc -l |
| 16:47.58 | ``Erik | /usr/brlcad$ du -s . |
| 16:47.58 | ``Erik | 176144 . |
| 16:48.31 | ``Erik | yeah, works for me, the pkg is ok... *shrug* mebbe you need to rm -rf /usr/brlcad and try the pkg again? |
| 16:50.48 | ``Erik | alexis: do I get to see pretty pictures on friday? :D |
| 16:51.10 | Maloeran | Won't be very pretty yet, but sure :) |
| 16:51.44 | Maloeran | It's a lot more work than one could think, I'm writing this raytracing pipeline to handle dynamic geometry with multiple graphs already |
| 16:51.56 | Maloeran | No point in doing anything less to see the code being thrown away later |
| 16:52.34 | ``Erik | okie, coo' |
| 16:53.22 | Maloeran | I haven't really looked into this "convenience library" stuff, mm.c still needs fixing, plus I'll be reusing some code ( old libfrti ) for multiple demos |
| 16:53.55 | Maloeran | If you are ever incredibly bored, setting an autoconf/automake/libtools framework for this stuff would be appreciated ;) |
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| 19:06.55 | ``Erik | heh |
| 19:07.33 | ``Erik | ohyeah, btw, because you used make style behaviors instead of autoconf style behaviors, your program only compiles on linux... |
| 19:07.37 | ``Erik | :D |
| 19:14.50 | Maloeran | Feel free to pinpoint problems more precisely, I don't have fbsd around at the moment |
| 19:15.35 | ValarQ | IriX64: foo |
| 20:39.18 | IriX64 | ValarQ: fo is Gods function :) |
| 20:39.24 | IriX64 | foo too |
| 20:40.55 | ValarQ | :p) |
| 20:41.41 | ValarQ | IriX64: lightened your desktop yet? |
| 20:41.51 | IriX64 | ValarQ: which .g file is yours? |
| 20:42.05 | IriX64 | and no i havent its still pretty heavy:) |
| 20:42.14 | ValarQ | no .g file is mine |
| 20:42.33 | IriX64 | push of a button it all goes away anyway :) |
| 20:43.49 | ValarQ | http://arda.no-ip.org/fancydesktop.png |
| 20:43.57 | ValarQ | my new fancy desktop :) |
| 20:45.50 | IriX64 | you're good. |
| 20:46.03 | IriX64 | im not that advanced yet. :) |
| 20:46.44 | IriX64 | XL? |
| 20:47.01 | ValarQ | XL? |
| 20:47.13 | IriX64 | forgot the name of that package. |
| 20:47.22 | ValarQ | XGL? |
| 20:47.23 | IriX64 | XGL? |
| 20:47.27 | IriX64 | heh |
| 20:47.28 | ValarQ | :) |
| 20:47.39 | ``Erik | mal: libdl is very linux. |
| 20:47.39 | IriX64 | havent got that yet. |
| 20:47.42 | ValarQ | XGL/Compiz to be more precise |
| 20:47.52 | IriX64 | thankyou. |
| 20:48.20 | IriX64 | does it cause you're knuckles to bleed? |
| 20:48.29 | ``Erik | hrmmmm |
| 20:48.30 | ``Erik | with gnome? |
| 20:49.04 | ``Erik | and I guess that's irssi, not bx? |
| 20:49.05 | Maloeran | Erik, POSIX 1003.1-2003 describes dlclose(), dlerror(), dlopen(), and dlsym(). |
| 20:49.12 | Maloeran | What's specific to Linux? |
| 20:49.21 | ``Erik | mal: yes, and sane systems, since it's a POSIX set, put it in libc |
| 20:49.49 | ``Erik | glibc used to have it in libc.so, too, but they broke it out |
| 20:49.52 | ValarQ | IriX64: not yet |
| 20:49.58 | Maloeran | Oh well, then it's just the automake stuff which needs fixing |
| 20:52.21 | ``Erik | in configure.ac, use the search-libs to find the function, and set DL to whatever is returned, then AC_SUBST and add @DL@ when dl* is needed :) |
| 20:53.19 | ``Erik | libtool has some shtuff for that, too |
| 20:53.42 | ValarQ | IriX64: http://arda.no-ip.org/brlcadshot.png |
| 20:55.34 | clock_ | good ole chopper |
| 20:56.47 | ``Erik | Mi-28 |
| 20:57.05 | ``Erik | http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mi-28 |
| 20:57.07 | ``Erik | :D |
| 20:59.34 | IriX64 | transparent? how cool is that coolness? |
| 21:00.45 | IriX64 | ``Erik... one word gag me with a spoon :) |
| 21:01.52 | IriX64 | XGL...good stuff ValarQ:? |
| 21:02.13 | IriX64 | is source available? |
| 21:05.28 | ValarQ | yes |
| 21:05.46 | IriX64 | where? one i found is for suse. |
| 21:06.26 | ValarQ | i use the portage overlay for gentoo |
| 21:06.49 | IriX64 | all specific tho right? |
| 21:07.00 | ValarQ | what? |
| 21:07.39 | IriX64 | all specific to an os? is a platform independant version of the source available like brlcad? |
| 21:08.52 | ValarQ | i guess it depends pretty hard on OpenGL and unix sockets (it's X after all) |
| 21:09.01 | ValarQ | but it should work on any system |
| 21:09.17 | IriX64 | so whos code should i borrow:) |
| 21:09.47 | ValarQ | i believe freedesktop got the cvs repo |
| 21:10.10 | ValarQ | http://www.freedesktop.org/wiki/Software_2fXgl |
| 21:10.50 | IriX64 | thwy have 5 components where's the beef:) |
| 21:11.22 | ValarQ | it's gonna be pretty much work to set it up from source on your own... |
| 21:12.31 | IriX64 | tell me about it. (sticky note applied to ValarQ's forehead...remind Irix64 of this in a month ) :) |
| 21:14.02 | ValarQ | heh |
| 21:16.59 | IriX64 | just so we're comparing apples with apples, gentoo=gnu64? |
| 21:17.51 | IriX64 | or are we back in gnu32? |
| 21:20.31 | IriX64 | btw you should rotate that helicoptor ValarQ. |
| 01:19.55 | CIA-9 | BRL-CAD: 03lbutler * 10brlcad/ (11 files in 2 dirs): Doxygen updates |
| 01:23.40 | CIA-9 | BRL-CAD: 03lbutler * 10brlcad/misc/ (Doxyfile doxygen_structure): Doxygen updates |
| 01:34.25 | IriX64 | ahhh linux-gentoo, thanks for clarifying, haven't paid much attention to *nix os's lately. |
| 01:35.41 | *** join/#brlcad IriX64_ (n=Who@bas3-sudbury98-1168051987.dsl.bell.ca) | |
| 01:38.12 | IriX64 | other than redhat linux 6.0 :) |
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| 03:31.36 | IriX64 | the forge man :) |
| 03:32.17 | IriX64 | Twingy: why won't os/2 install in vmware server ;) |
| 03:33.36 | IriX64 | That leftist (tm) build of gentoo is purely wonderful. |
| 03:34.29 | IriX64 | netstat -q |
| 03:34.34 | IriX64 | whup. |
| 03:38.12 | IriX64 | refresh my memory. how do i burn this iso image to cd? |
| 03:39.27 | ``Erik | depends on teh os |
| 03:39.43 | Twingy | put da cd in your toaster |
| 03:41.20 | IriX64 | toaster popped, still don't know and its xp pro svc pk 2. |
| 03:42.24 | Maloeran | mkisofs and cdrecord should do nicely on Gentoo or any other unix |
| 03:42.54 | IriX64 | man those are unix apps. |
| 03:43.25 | IriX64 | im going to install gentoo in vmware if i get an installation cd burned. |
| 03:45.07 | Maloeran | Ah, so you don't have Gentoo up yet. Search for Nero if I remember correctly |
| 03:45.19 | IriX64 | thankyou. |
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| 04:01.48 | *** join/#brlcad digitalfredy (n=digitalf@200.71.62.161) | |
| 09:27.52 | brlcad | ValarQ: neat desktop.. though seems like it'd be kinda hard to use like that ;) |
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| 14:20.47 | ValarQ | brlcad: yes, thought it has some bright sides |
| 14:22.50 | Maloeran | I never quite understood the point of transparency in a GUI, mostly the text and interfaces are just harder to read |
| 14:25.25 | archivist | w |
| 14:26.02 | archivist | for gif type images where a an image is round etc |
| 14:27.08 | archivist | often used for icons on the background |
| 14:27.17 | ValarQ | Maloeran: constant transparency like in my shots are mostly useless |
| 14:27.50 | ValarQ | Maloeran: transparency of non-active windows might be a good idea thought |
| 14:32.48 | ValarQ | _might_* |
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| 16:05.24 | Maloeran | It lives! I just actually rendered my first picture with the new raytracer code base, after a month without seeing anything |
| 16:07.05 | Maloeran | http://www.rayforce.net/yaayy.png It sure is not impressive, but I'll meet that Friday milestone, Erik o.O |
| 17:05.32 | dtidrow | heh |
| 17:07.26 | ``Erik | <PROTECTED> |
| 17:07.39 | ``Erik | look like... an m1a2 abrams mbt? |
| 17:09.03 | Maloeran | Pfft, me use a cube? :) |
| 17:09.59 | Maloeran | The m1a2 yes, mostly upside down. It's reaching a pathetic 1.3-2.0 million rays per second at the moment |
| 17:10.06 | ``Erik | on? |
| 17:10.25 | Maloeran | Amd64 single core |
| 17:13.23 | ``Erik | mhz? |
| 17:13.29 | ``Erik | erm |
| 17:13.31 | ``Erik | ghz, sorry |
| 17:13.31 | Maloeran | 2.2ghz |
| 17:13.32 | ``Erik | I'm old |
| 17:13.36 | Maloeran | Ehehe |
| 17:13.43 | ``Erik | is it multithreaded yet? |
| 17:14.17 | Maloeran | It is not, the preparation is very poor and the raytracing completely un-optimized |
| 17:14.33 | Maloeran | Just give me 2 months or so ;), it's 7 times slower than the prototype at the moment |
| 17:15.00 | ``Erik | I think it's still 'satisfactory' |
| 17:17.14 | Maloeran | Should be satisfactory for the "Initial rendering capability" milestone, yes |
| 17:21.54 | ``Erik | mwahahhaa |
| 17:24.07 | Maloeran | How dare you make my code compile on freebsd! *sobs* |
| 17:24.16 | ``Erik | heh |
| 17:24.17 | ``Erik | and mac |
| 17:25.05 | Maloeran | Right. Actually, if you don't mind taking care of all the autoconf/libtools mess, I sure won't mind :) |
| 17:25.53 | ``Erik | weeeee, segfault on mac |
| 17:26.10 | Maloeran | Promising. Can you pinpoint that for me? |
| 17:26.33 | ``Erik | Program received signal EXC_BAD_ACCESS, Could not access memory. |
| 17:26.33 | ``Erik | Reason: KERN_INVALID_ADDRESS at address: 0x3c300598 |
| 17:26.33 | ``Erik | rfAddTrianglef (v0=0x3c300590, v1=0x3c300590, v2=0x24300590, value=0x1) at ../../../RF/group.c:253 |
| 17:26.33 | ``Erik | 253 memcpy( &rtri->pt[0], v0, 3*sizeof(rff) ); |
| 17:26.57 | ``Erik | printf right before was: Model loaded, 426902016 triangles |
| 17:27.12 | Maloeran | Okay, this is not an ia32 Mac, right? |
| 17:27.17 | ``Erik | no |
| 17:27.19 | ``Erik | g5 |
| 17:27.21 | Maloeran | The data file's endianess is messing things up |
| 17:27.23 | ``Erik | right endian |
| 17:27.25 | Maloeran | The m1a2 |
| 17:27.44 | ``Erik | uhmmmm |
| 17:28.08 | ``Erik | I think I have, um, X installed on the quad opteron... gimme a few, I'll go check it there |
| 17:28.44 | Maloeran | *nods* Feel free to report anything, I'll be away for a few minutes |
| 17:35.39 | ``Erik | sweet, I broke the linux compile |
| 17:56.41 | ``Erik | annnnddd, on leenewx... http://paste.lisp.org/display/25579 |
| 18:22.54 | Maloeran | Weee. Okay, I'll look into this :) |
| 18:26.52 | Maloeran | Looking at the code, I sure don't see how it was working in the first place, pointer was unitialized. anchor = ot.anchor; |
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| 02:12.27 | IriX64 | will gentoo install on a vmware virtual machine? |
| 02:15.54 | IriX64 | ? :) |
| 02:16.44 | Maloeran | What about installing Gentoo for real? :) |
| 02:17.03 | IriX64 | blows away my existing installation. |
| 02:17.17 | Maloeran | Doesn't seem a good idea to run an OS relying that much on compilation in an emulator |
| 02:17.21 | Maloeran | Just resize it |
| 02:17.36 | IriX64 | ? |
| 02:17.57 | Twingy | I use fbsd emulator for all my robotics dev work |
| 02:18.03 | Twingy | fbsd in parallels |
| 02:18.10 | IriX64 | ? |
| 02:18.14 | Twingy | with two displays |
| 02:18.24 | Twingy | fbsd running fullscreen on left, MacOS on right playing itunes |
| 02:18.41 | IriX64 | freebsd? |
| 02:18.47 | Twingy | jah |
| 02:19.31 | Twingy | get a job |
| 02:20.00 | Maloeran | Freebsd is quite free, can't take too much disk space either |
| 02:20.08 | IriX64 | jobs avois me like the plague :) |
| 02:20.18 | IriX64 | avoid too. |
| 02:20.22 | Twingy | once gcam is mature I might try my hand at some supplementary income |
| 02:20.40 | IriX64 | graphics cam? :) |
| 02:20.44 | Maloeran | It won't be open-source then? |
| 02:20.44 | Twingy | gnu |
| 02:20.48 | Twingy | it will be |
| 02:20.53 | IriX64 | heh |
| 02:20.55 | Maloeran | Then you'll sell tech support? |
| 02:21.00 | Twingy | nope |
| 02:21.06 | Maloeran | Volountary donations? |
| 02:21.17 | Twingy | that always helps |
| 02:21.23 | IriX64 | different project? |
| 02:21.29 | IriX64 | = income? |
| 02:21.36 | Twingy | stuff I build with it |
| 02:21.46 | Maloeran | Ah, I see |
| 02:21.56 | Twingy | hopefully out of aluminum |
| 02:22.23 | IriX64 | Twingy, ever hear od steel welding? |
| 02:22.28 | IriX64 | of too. |
| 02:22.48 | Twingy | I weld steel when I need to |
| 02:22.56 | IriX64 | you take the acetlyne bottle and replace it with hydrogen. |
| 02:23.13 | IriX64 | use a steel rod instead of those brazinf rods. |
| 02:23.21 | IriX64 | brazing too. |
| 02:23.24 | Twingy | for what purpose? |
| 02:23.42 | Twingy | you just like jumped off topic |
| 02:23.43 | IriX64 | high temperature welds. |
| 02:23.46 | Twingy | ok, great |
| 02:23.50 | Twingy | now back to aluminum |
| 02:23.52 | Twingy | :) |
| 02:23.56 | IriX64 | heh all right. |
| 02:24.05 | IriX64 | aluminum rods. |
| 02:24.22 | Twingy | next purchase will be a band saw for cleaning up my castings |
| 02:24.36 | Twingy | but not until my solar panels are installed |
| 02:24.37 | IriX64 | grinder does a good job. |
| 02:24.46 | Twingy | grinder is not designed for that |
| 02:25.00 | IriX64 | using appropriate attachments it is. |
| 02:25.27 | Twingy | ok, you can pound a round peg through a square hole, but I prefer the round holes myself |
| 02:25.38 | Twingy | which is why I will be getting a band saw |
| 02:25.55 | IriX64 | wouldnt be a square peg or round hole anymore now would it.? |
| 02:26.02 | Twingy | no |
| 02:26.09 | Twingy | because I'm implying it works |
| 02:26.24 | IriX64 | im dense. act accordingly. |
| 02:26.27 | Twingy | it's just not appropriate |
| 02:26.48 | Twingy | I know you are, I'm trying to compensate |
| 02:27.00 | Twingy | and remain benevolent |
| 02:27.05 | IriX64 | don't over compensate though. :) |
| 02:27.27 | IriX64 | gotta see a man about a recurrring leak bbiab. |
| 02:27.53 | Twingy | you should be giving yourself lobotomies |
| 02:28.03 | Twingy | *shouldn't |
| 02:28.17 | Twingy | but apparently you think otherwise |
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| 11:16.33 | ``Erik | band saw? for flash? or for the pour channel? |
| 11:44.33 | archivist | ally doesnt grind well as it fills the grinding wheel |
| 11:45.27 | archivist | I wear out a dremel a year |
| 12:56.14 | ``Erik | yeah... but aluminum is very fileable |
| 12:56.20 | ``Erik | and files can be cleaned with a wire brush |
| 12:56.22 | ``Erik | *shrug* |
| 12:56.57 | ``Erik | up around brass and harder, a grinding wheel is awesome, though |
| 12:57.05 | archivist | hehe depends on the copper content pure is sticky as hell |
| 12:57.24 | ``Erik | that'ts why I said brass, not copper |
| 12:57.26 | ``Erik | O:-) |
| 12:57.37 | archivist | angle grinder heaven |
| 12:57.52 | ``Erik | part of me misses the days of working in a metal shop |
| 12:58.03 | ``Erik | then I remember how much I hate physical labor ;) |
| 12:58.13 | archivist | as a clockmaker I still get dirty |
| 12:58.30 | ``Erik | cool... maker? mostly repair work on antiques? |
| 12:59.06 | archivist | make parts for new and antque |
| 12:59.32 | ``Erik | and I have absolutely no desire to wear a wristwatch or pocketwatch |
| 12:59.34 | archivist | last job www/archivist.info/pendulum guess the metal |
| 12:59.42 | ``Erik | too many people care too much about time |
| 12:59.53 | ``Erik | forbidden |
| 12:59.54 | ``Erik | 403 |
| 13:00.02 | archivist | hehe replace / with . |
| 13:00.14 | ``Erik | hurrr |
| 13:00.35 | archivist | www.archivist.info/pendulum |
| 13:01.13 | ``Erik | hmmmmm, looks too hard to be platinum? |
| 13:01.23 | archivist | not hard |
| 13:01.37 | ``Erik | and the surface looks too shiney to be aluminum |
| 13:01.46 | ``Erik | but the old surface is too matte to be a steel |
| 13:01.46 | archivist | never usually seen shiny |
| 13:01.59 | ``Erik | if I spit on it, would it explod? |
| 13:02.00 | ``Erik | :D |
| 13:02.07 | archivist | cast iron |
| 13:02.12 | ``Erik | really? |
| 13:02.17 | ``Erik | that's an awful clean piece of stock |
| 13:02.35 | archivist | yup continously cast |
| 13:02.50 | ``Erik | full size (and old, well abused) lathe, I see |
| 13:03.19 | archivist | 1956 worn out |
| 13:03.23 | ``Erik | the bevel cut... was that ground and polished? or is that from the bit? |
| 13:03.31 | ``Erik | cuz it's insanely smooth |
| 13:04.02 | archivist | turned 1 thou feed and then wet and dry then polich |
| 13:04.23 | ``Erik | ok, so it's been polished, not a straight bit cut :) hehehe |
| 13:04.54 | ``Erik | and I seeeee.... an irc client, it looks like... and firefox... cooking? pastebin... O:-) |
| 13:05.08 | ``Erik | btw, mysql sucks, postgresql++ |
| 13:05.13 | ``Erik | imho |
| 13:05.13 | Maloeran | So you cut this kind of stuff if your garage as well, like Justin? :) Building a pendulum? |
| 13:05.26 | archivist | its my day job |
| 13:05.49 | ``Erik | all my experience was during a highschool "metal shop" class |
| 13:05.50 | ``Erik | heh |
| 13:06.04 | ``Erik | so I got a good breadth, but not a lot of narrow experience |
| 13:06.30 | ``Erik | just 'nuff that I know when to pick what machine, and probably won't lose too many fingers, heh |
| 13:06.52 | archivist | its the boss here that machines his fingers not me |
| 13:07.02 | ``Erik | well |
| 13:07.21 | ``Erik | bosses in general are incompetent in attempting the tasks their "subordinates" do |
| 13:07.42 | archivist | I had to take him to hospital after he gear cut his finger |
| 13:07.54 | Maloeran | Ouch. |
| 13:08.01 | ``Erik | I code for a living, my supervisor has a masters in CS, but couldn't code her way out of a wet paper sack |
| 13:08.06 | ``Erik | just a cut? |
| 13:08.10 | archivist | .8 module index finger |
| 13:08.27 | ``Erik | I took a good chunk of one off with twinkies r/c plane, got an ambulance trip, they sewed it on, but it ain't quite right :/ |
| 13:08.48 | Maloeran | Erik, Wendy really has a master in CS? |
| 13:09.01 | ``Erik | I think so |
| 13:09.04 | ``Erik | heh |
| 13:09.16 | Maloeran | Now I really have no esteem left for the formal educational system |
| 13:09.19 | ``Erik | dixie has a doctorate in cs... and doesn't know the difference between a programming language and a library |
| 13:09.38 | ``Erik | mike, however, has a doctorate in cs, and is pretty damn brilliant |
| 13:09.56 | Maloeran | Survice would like me to get a degree for some reason, possibly so they can ask more from the ARL |
| 13:10.12 | ``Erik | BUT, in the "real world", it's more or less given that the more formal education you've had,t he more you know... |
| 13:10.39 | ``Erik | if I were to dispute something dixie said, 95% of the 'real world' would tell me to sod off, because I just have a bs, not a phd |
| 13:10.42 | ``Erik | *shrug* |
| 13:11.02 | ``Erik | and people without a bs are only useful for flipping burgers, according to 95% of the industry |
| 13:11.04 | ``Erik | :) |
| 13:11.14 | archivist | knowing how to use a library is better than a degree sometimes |
| 13:11.24 | ``Erik | (it's just a hoop to jump through, but *shrug* if you wanna be heard...) |
| 13:11.41 | Maloeran | Aw Erik :), I suppose I better inform Survice about these new career plans |
| 13:12.08 | ``Erik | at least with undergrad degrees, you DO get a good breadth of information that focused self-education would completely fail at |
| 13:12.44 | ``Erik | I thought I knew it all and was a superguru until I got to the upper level undergrad program ;0 |
| 13:13.56 | Maloeran | Useful information, or perhaps just knowing by heart the O notation for all "standard" common algorithms? |
| 13:14.18 | ``Erik | meh, asymptotic notation is a minor player |
| 13:14.40 | ``Erik | grocking the theoretical, and being forced to use a wide range of languages from a wide range of paradigm on a wide range of tasks was interesting |
| 13:15.14 | ``Erik | I still look up and reread some of the classic simple 'problems' to keep my mind semi-limber... |
| 13:15.26 | ``Erik | <-- points at the halting problem in a safari tab :) |
| 13:16.06 | ``Erik | and that's exactly why undergrad cs would benefit you. |
| 13:16.08 | ``Erik | http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Halting_problem |
| 13:16.32 | Maloeran | Oh, that |
| 13:16.52 | Maloeran | Safari encountered such a situation? :) That's unexpected |
| 13:16.58 | ``Erik | no, hah |
| 13:17.01 | ``Erik | the webpage is open in safari |
| 13:17.40 | ``Erik | fundamental computer science... the theoretical stuff... gets me off :D |
| 13:17.58 | ``Erik | dfa's, turing machines, p/np... |
| 13:18.04 | ``Erik | underappreciated. |
| 13:18.16 | ``Erik | <-- points at his brainfuck interpreter and compiler... |
| 13:18.25 | ``Erik | that's where academic optimization research should happen |
| 13:18.26 | ``Erik | not c |
| 13:19.08 | Maloeran | It's often possible when faced with a though, slow or impratical problem... to just change the problem itself |
| 13:19.19 | ``Erik | erm... |
| 13:19.20 | ``Erik | dur |
| 13:19.26 | ``Erik | that's a core premise of p/np |
| 13:19.50 | Maloeran | For having read so many papers on ray-tracing, it's something a lot of people seem to forget |
| 13:20.14 | ``Erik | just cuz 99.999% of people misapply the taught computer sciences does not mean that formal cs is useless, dude |
| 13:20.34 | Maloeran | *nods* Right ;) |
| 13:20.50 | ``Erik | seriously, you're smart enough to grok what is said and benefit from it, opposed to the normal 'copy what thte prof says and regurgitate to pass the class' bs |
| 13:22.12 | Maloeran | Really? I wouldn't have guessed that |
| 13:22.14 | ``Erik | but I'm old enough that I pick my battles against beaurocracy carefully :) |
| 13:22.28 | archivist | cos sometimes the prof is at the level of "if you cant do it, teach it" so you need to thoink around what the buggers are on about |
| 13:22.40 | ``Erik | heh, indeed |
| 13:23.03 | ``Erik | with my undergrad, there was only one prof that knew the subject.. the rest were regurgitation machines |
| 13:23.18 | ``Erik | there was on omfg computer scientist, one omfg software engineer, and a pack of fucktards |
| 13:23.25 | ``Erik | teaching the cirriculum |
| 13:23.41 | Maloeran | You may as well rely on books then |
| 13:23.49 | ``Erik | fortunately, the cs was my advisor, and I talked to him a lot, so I got a LOT more out of school than just the courses |
| 13:23.56 | ``Erik | heh |
| 13:24.04 | ``Erik | who will tell you the right book? |
| 13:24.13 | archivist | allways red multiple books on a subject for the same reasons |
| 13:24.17 | archivist | read |
| 13:24.30 | ``Erik | I have books on my shelf I would have never seen if it weren't for well informed people suggesting them *shrug* |
| 13:24.48 | ``Erik | like, in opengl, the average do-it-yourselfer would probably go look at nehe |
| 13:24.59 | ``Erik | if no one tells them "NO! Bad fucktard! no nehe! go read the redbook!" |
| 13:25.01 | ``Erik | ... |
| 13:25.53 | Maloeran | Sure, sure. I'm just not convinced the educational benefits are worth the time investment, but I'll ponder about that later |
| 13:26.10 | ``Erik | also; getting to sit down with a math teacher and get the REAL scoop on quaternions in a sit tdown session was... invaluable. |
| 13:26.45 | archivist | I have started a few courses but ended up not finishing as the day job got in the way |
| 13:26.48 | ``Erik | the educational benefits are not limited to lectures *shrug* |
| 13:27.06 | ``Erik | don't discount the atmosphere and availability of expertise |
| 13:27.30 | ``Erik | despite the mountains of bullshit heaped out of the institution |
| 13:27.30 | ``Erik | :D |
| 13:27.40 | archivist | open university maths was hard for me but the 1 to 1 tutorials got me through |
| 13:27.47 | Maloeran | I see.. :) |
| 13:28.43 | Maloeran | There are _way_ too many papers without any content worth reading out there, it's horrible |
| 13:29.29 | ``Erik | yeah, most of those papers are the uni saying "you must publish this year" and the person going "oh, uhhhh, ok, lemme crap in a word processor for a week, shove it out the door, and go back to what I was doing" |
| 13:30.18 | archivist | then a crap reviewer doesnt read and check properly |
| 13:30.21 | ``Erik | heh, I did one lame publication... and just straight copied most of it into another multi-person paper... *shrug* |
| 13:30.57 | ``Erik | if you're punished for not producing, but not punished for producing crap... save your time for fun stuff, shove crap out the door |
| 13:31.31 | Maloeran | Exactly. Most papers coming out of private companies and so on appear equally worthless, it's not limited to the educational system |
| 13:31.48 | ``Erik | hm |
| 13:31.48 | Maloeran | I'm really amazed by this need, this urge to publish even when one doesn't have anything to say |
| 13:32.04 | ``Erik | it's a condition of pointy haired management, I believe |
| 13:32.14 | ``Erik | not the people writing the papers |
| 13:32.22 | Maloeran | Most likely so, yes |
| 13:32.26 | dtidrow | yep |
| 13:32.52 | ``Erik | of the, um, five publications I have out or in queue for this org... on my own, I wouldn't have called any of them publishable. |
| 13:33.08 | ``Erik | my old stuff is far more useful, heh |
| 13:33.53 | ``Erik | but if I don't have publications, I get graded down in my annual review |
| 13:34.26 | Maloeran | The "new" developments from Siggraph in the field of raytracing that Lee presented were already out there, present in dozen papers pratically copying each other |
| 13:34.53 | Maloeran | Seriously? Now that is sad |
| 13:34.55 | ``Erik | heh |
| 13:35.03 | ``Erik | look over the last 5 yrs of siggraph |
| 13:35.12 | ``Erik | every year, it's the same damn stuff |
| 13:35.17 | ``Erik | with minor tweaks |
| 13:35.20 | Maloeran | Exactly |
| 13:35.46 | ``Erik | but I enjoyed siggraph a lot... getting to talk to people... the papers are just fluff, talking to people is where it gets cool |
| 13:35.46 | Maloeran | And apparently, we are going to go over the same old stuff on September 18-20 |
| 13:35.58 | dtidrow | what conference is then? |
| 13:36.08 | ``Erik | ieee rt06 |
| 13:36.21 | ``Erik | http://www.sci.utah.edu/RT06/index.html |
| 13:36.47 | ``Erik | fuck |
| 13:36.51 | Maloeran | Frankly, I would rather just keep coding than go, but... |
| 13:36.53 | Maloeran | Hum? |
| 13:36.58 | ``Erik | I need to do my poster, it was accepted and I haven't really started it, heh |
| 13:37.38 | ``Erik | ohyeah, I showed the output of your program to some people and they liked it... fyi |
| 13:38.06 | ``Erik | 510k p/s on a dual 2.0 p4-xeon |
| 13:38.07 | Maloeran | The current slow and crude pixel dump or the prototype? |
| 13:38.12 | ``Erik | the pixel dump |
| 13:38.17 | Maloeran | Gah! Don't show that :) |
| 13:38.19 | ``Erik | I hit it with pix-png -a |
| 13:38.21 | ``Erik | heh |
| 13:38.24 | ``Erik | dude |
| 13:38.28 | ``Erik | it's visible output |
| 13:38.31 | Maloeran | Show that : http://www.rayforce.net/lightdemo-ms.avi |
| 13:38.35 | ``Erik | they were psyched |
| 13:39.01 | Maloeran | Eh well, as long as you don't say much about the current level of performance of that thing :) |
| 13:39.19 | ``Erik | I mentioned it, and noted that you had not started optimizing it yet |
| 13:39.24 | ``Erik | you're ahead of the game, dude, it's all good |
| 13:39.45 | ``Erik | I mean, I'm running renders at 20k p/s on that machine |
| 13:39.55 | ``Erik | 510k is definitely an improvement |
| 13:40.01 | Maloeran | Was it Lee and/or Wendy, or other unspecified people? |
| 13:40.54 | ``Erik | heh, both the named people |
| 13:41.01 | ``Erik | I showed it to lee, he showed it to wendy |
| 13:43.30 | Maloeran | Ahead of the game by one day I suppose :), I needed visible output for today |
| 13:44.06 | ``Erik | I saw a pixdump, that's visible output *shrug* if anyone asks, I'm gonna say we met that milestone early |
| 13:44.31 | ``Erik | now an SDL interactive quack type thingie would be awesome, but it's fluff |
| 13:45.09 | Maloeran | I really could use 2 weeks to complete the model preparation, it's terribly crude |
| 13:45.47 | Maloeran | Ehehe |
| 13:46.19 | ``Erik | um, you have a week estimate for regression suite, do you really think that'd take more than a day? |
| 13:46.28 | ``Erik | and another week for api review |
| 13:46.30 | ``Erik | ... hurrrr |
| 13:46.48 | ``Erik | and then 3 weeks for ray bundles, which you probably already have, or are close to |
| 13:46.49 | Maloeran | The regression suite, that's testing the raytracing for accuracy? |
| 13:46.49 | ``Erik | ... |
| 13:47.18 | dtidrow | heh - padding, padding, padding ;-) |
| 13:47.19 | ``Erik | um, accuracy, performance, functionality |
| 13:47.19 | Maloeran | Right right, it's all good ; that initial rendering milestone was the tricky one |
| 13:47.23 | ``Erik | just a nightly script to compile it, run it, annotate a file with some info |
| 13:48.32 | dtidrow | in lightdemo-ms.avi - did you notice that the tank is actually the mirror image of the real thing? |
| 13:48.39 | ``Erik | I'd actually recommend two scripts, one very simple skeleton that checks out the repo fresh in like /usr/tmp/rayforce-`date +%Y%m%d%H%M`, runs another script, then rm -rf's |
| 13:49.02 | Maloeran | Is it, dtidrow? My coordinate system might be... mirrored |
| 13:49.04 | ``Erik | and the other script to autogen, configure, build, and run the programs |
| 13:49.37 | ``Erik | hah, it is mirrored |
| 13:49.58 | Maloeran | Oops :} |
| 13:50.04 | dtidrow | I wondered why it looked wrong at first :-) |
| 13:50.12 | dtidrow | s/wrong/odd/ |
| 13:51.38 | Maloeran | The new code doesn't produce a mirrored output though. Curious, still |
| 13:52.51 | ``Erik | aaanyways, we need to get some good representative models with better use policies... anything released with brlcad is grand to use, and I need to track down 'owners' for a couple models to get them approved for public release... one being a toyota "hilux" pickup truck |
| 13:53.53 | Maloeran | Right. Or I'll have a nice renaissance frigate soon as I said |
| 13:54.36 | ``Erik | well, as much as I'd love to get my hands on that model, pay attention to the license... |
| 13:57.03 | Maloeran | For the frigate? That won't be a problem |
| 13:58.40 | ``Erik | if'n ya buy it and put i t in the cvs repo, there should probably be an accompanying license or something, to make it clear where it came from, who holds the copyright, and what the license agreement is |
| 13:59.12 | ``Erik | total cya. :D |
| 13:59.43 | Maloeran | Yes, we'll have to make it clear. The author is a hobbist who usually just distributes his stuff freely |
| 13:59.47 | Maloeran | Have fun with that poster :) |
| 14:00.03 | ``Erik | cya == "cover your ass" |
| 14:00.15 | Maloeran | Ohh :) |
| 14:00.24 | dtidrow | ``Erik: I used to work at TACOM years ago, so I'm rather familiar with tanks :-) |
| 14:00.47 | dtidrow | bbl - got a squacky baby to deal with... |
| 14:01.12 | ``Erik | nifty, I'm rdecomm, arl/slad/bs |
| 14:09.29 | dtidrow | ``Erik: so yu work up at Aberdeen with lee and that crowd? |
| 14:10.13 | ``Erik | 'fraid so |
| 14:11.09 | ``Erik | I'm sorta kinda in the flux of going back to lee's team at the moment... everyone but the branch chief acknowleged that I changed teams back to acst like six months ago, heh |
| 14:11.31 | dtidrow | heh |
| 14:12.13 | ``Erik | the limbo was... somewhat pleasant :) but now I'm back to workin' *sigh* |
| 14:12.38 | dtidrow | lol |
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| 14:59.02 | archivist | thinking about my pendulum, I want 3d cad to calc the CG at different temperatures when filled with mercury (so needs to know about contained liquids) |
| 14:59.57 | archivist | I had to draw multiple versions in solidworks to get around it |
| 15:05.57 | ``Erik | that'd be a fluid dynamics problem to solve the shape of the fluid... |
| 15:06.11 | ``Erik | once you have the shape and densities, the cg is fairly easy |
| 15:06.59 | ``Erik | <-- been itching to do fem/cfd type code in brlcad, but has no time just yet |
| 15:09.08 | archivist | but the shape of the container is changing with temp so "needs" to be part of 3d system (little need as far as I can see in the real world) as compensation is done in software these days |
| 15:10.27 | archivist | just that we deal with people building clocks in the old fashioned way |
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| 21:03.31 | Maloeran | This is weird. I never noticed before that the m1 model has "polygons" where the 3 points are colinear, that causes some nasty artefacts in the new code |
| 21:11.11 | dtidrow_work | all three colinear? |
| 21:11.44 | dtidrow_work | oh, duh - thinking of something else |
| 21:12.03 | dtidrow_work | degenerate tris to make longer strips, perhaps? |
| 21:13.06 | Maloeran | Perhaps so, I suppose I'll have to strip them out for raytracing |
| 21:55.19 | ``Erik | why? |
| 21:58.39 | Maloeran | My intersection test can't handle triangles with an area of 0.0, and logically, no rays is ever going to hit them anyway |
| 22:20.34 | ``Erik | ah, div by zero error? |
| 22:24.46 | Maloeran | More like the preparation of such triangles, prior to raytracing, outputting a few NaNs |
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| 00:33.59 | IriX64 | ah, I see the brass is all here :) |
| 00:35.18 | IriX64 | ValarQ: that gentoo iso is too big for my disks, only support 700meg here. |
| 00:37.11 | IriX64 | I can unpack the iso i suppose but what the heck do i do without the installer? |
| 00:41.34 | ``Erik | heh |
| 00:41.45 | ``Erik | are you intending to install native, or vm? |
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| 00:49.55 | IriX64 | vm preferably. |
| 00:50.44 | IriX64 | either way have to be able to boot the iso. |
| 00:53.09 | Maloeran | Boot iso from network? Store CD on the raw partition of an old disk and boot it? |
| 00:53.27 | Maloeran | I'm not too sure about the second, but theorically... |
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| 05:00.27 | Marcelo_Bass | alguem fala portugues? |
| 05:00.53 | Marcelo_Bass | hummm |
| 05:02.51 | Marcelo_Bass | somebody know to install the brl-cad? |
| 08:08.27 | Twingy | john travolta could speak portugues in some movie |
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| 13:11.53 | ``Erik | O.O |
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| 22:30.29 | Maloeran | Erik, what's the proper way to make this autoconf stuff to target a certain processor for optimisation, -mtune? |
| 22:31.30 | Maloeran | Preferably, also optionally replacing -g with -s -fomit-frame-pointer, etc. ... |
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| 01:48.09 | IriX64 | would a geometry browser pane be too much to add do you think? |
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| 07:31.33 | CIA-9 | BRL-CAD: 03d_rossberg * 10brlcad/src/libbn/libbn.dsp: Removed number.c |
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| 13:15.24 | brlcad | IriX64: no, not really -- was actually already added in the initial implementation -- it's just disabled/hidden and unused |
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| 11:29.39 | CIA-9 | BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/configure.ac: so we apparently can't actually call any opengl function (at least on macosx) without a valid context or it will cause a bus error, so instead just link against some useful symbols. |
| 11:32.07 | CIA-9 | BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/librtserver/Makefile.am: er, reverse that order. if we're building tcl, then we have tcl_nil -- otherwise link against TCL |
| 11:47.15 | CIA-9 | BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/configure.ac: linking against a system tkstub library may require linking against the tclstub library as well, at least that seems to be the case on mac os x's default-provided static tkstub archive |
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| 19:30.29 | CIA-9 | BRL-CAD: 03mjgillich * 10brlcad/src/conv/g-xxx.c: Modified g-xxx.c to db_walk_tree verses db_fun_tree |
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| 09:52.12 | ValarQ | IriX64: still to much clutter :P |
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| 00:00.04 | IriX64 | how do i use Photon mapping light model properly? |
| 00:01.56 | IriX64 | i'm particularly confused byt visualize irradiance cache. |
| 00:02.02 | IriX64 | -t |
| 00:07.48 | ``Erik | you probably don't want to visualize that |
| 00:29.47 | IriX64 | probably? it came out black :) |
| 00:35.48 | IriX64 | Global Photons 16384 irradiance rays 100 angular Tol 60 scale indirect 1.0 and use irradiance hpersampling cache comes out better but still dark :) |
| 00:36.45 | IriX64 | photon mapping is simply a lighting model which i use to display a model. |
| 00:36.57 | IriX64 | solid model. |
| 00:41.44 | IriX64 | nice of you to offer 7 different lighting models :) |
| 00:45.19 | ``Erik | hrm, did you define a light source when you tried rendering with photon mapping? |
| 00:46.09 | ``Erik | ARL-TR-3608 is Justin's report on photon mapping, if you can find it... I d'no how much it applies to using the gui thingy in mged, though :) |
| 00:48.41 | IriX64 | photon mapping i'm familiar with is a model and the source. |
| 00:54.18 | IriX64 | hah enough of that for now. |
| 00:54.36 | IriX64 | must revisit jumpdrive. |
| 01:37.20 | ``Erik | I'd imagine that you must define at least one region with the shader of "light" for photon mapping to work... as... you need a source... |
| 02:36.30 | IriX64 | Comes out right. |
| 02:37.01 | IriX64 | time to play with windows archer. |
| 03:18.09 | Maloeran | Both the guest house and the Monaco hotel are full for that Utah conference, I seriously need to find something before getting there :} |
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| 10:36.04 | peterbrett | Hey folks, I'm having a bit of trouble getting my environment set up to run brlcad... |
| 10:36.20 | clock_ | peterbrett: what's the problem? |
| 10:36.40 | peterbrett | mged says it can't find data resources -- but it's looking in [/home/ptbb2/brlcad//share/brlcad/7.8.3] and that directory exists and contains data... |
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| 16:48.48 | IriX64 | ValarQ: i showed you mine... |
| 16:56.51 | ValarQ | IriX64: what? |
| 17:10.25 | IriX64 | heh we were comparing desktops. |
| 18:11.13 | ValarQ | yeah, you showed me a couple (never the 8 rightmost pixels thought) |
| 20:22.28 | ``Erik | ... |
| 20:23.41 | ValarQ | hello mr Erik |
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| 21:38.55 | ``Erik | <-- scratches his brain |
| 21:46.24 | Maloeran | brlcad, any idea where you'll be staying? Monacco and Guest house are full, don't bother trying |
| 21:46.39 | brlcad | not yet |
| 21:47.39 | brlcad | i'll figure that bit out tomorrow morning I think |
| 21:48.00 | Maloeran | I'll be at A there : http://maps.google.com/maps?f=q&hl=en&sll=40.73282,-111.814127&sspn=0.054633,0.107975&q=best+western&ie=UTF8&om=1&z=14&ll=40.756295,-111.86657&spn=0.054614,0.107975 |
| 21:48.44 | brlcad | hmm.. best western, eh.. |
| 21:49.30 | Maloeran | About the only thing reasonably close I could find, just so you don't search too long either, if you want |
| 21:50.09 | brlcad | not a huge fan of BW but thanks for the tip |
| 21:50.33 | Maloeran | Oh? I don't have a clue what kind of place this is :) |
| 21:50.47 | brlcad | i can't really imagine this conference having more than a couple hundred people at best, probably way less |
| 21:51.39 | brlcad | yeah, best westerns are sort of like shopping at walmart .. just your basic no-frills hotel for most of them |
| 21:53.19 | Maloeran | I see, I'm not too picky on comfort personally. They got a bed and internet, so... :) |
| 21:54.26 | brlcad | i'm not picky on the comfort, but I sure do like it when they have a gym, pool, and hot tub somewhere :) |
| 21:54.44 | brlcad | internet and bed are pretty much a baseline requirement |
| 21:55.42 | ``Erik | uh |
| 21:55.48 | ``Erik | you expect internet access at a best western? |
| 21:55.50 | ``Erik | BWAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHA |
| 21:55.51 | ``Erik | :) |
| 21:56.39 | ``Erik | (unless they've changed recently) |
| 21:56.44 | brlcad | ooh, there's a marriott right there |
| 21:57.01 | ``Erik | searched for bus lines yet, mal? |
| 21:57.03 | Maloeran | They claimed to have internet on their website anyway |
| 21:57.12 | Maloeran | I'm pondering bringing a bicycle or not |
| 21:57.40 | ``Erik | internet in the room? or in a "business center"? |
| 21:58.23 | Maloeran | No clue. Features : Hot Tub Free Breakfast Dry Cleaning & Laundry Fitness Center/Health Club Pool Room Service High Speed Internet |
| 21:58.54 | Maloeran | Anyway, I have traveled through France on a bicycle and occasionally sleeping without a bed, I'll survive :) |
| 21:58.57 | brlcad | that's rather unusual for a best western |
| 22:00.17 | brlcad | Maloeran: how do you fly with your bike? |
| 22:00.25 | brlcad | you have a case? |
| 22:00.35 | Maloeran | I pack it in a cardboard box, the ones they sell bicycles in |
| 22:00.35 | ``Erik | wow, someone gave them a whole two stars |
| 22:00.43 | brlcad | heh |
| 22:01.27 | Maloeran | You are so picky :). And to think that I was almost put off by the "Deluxe Quality Room, Oversized Room", trying to find something more nromal |
| 22:01.30 | Maloeran | normal, even |
| 22:02.49 | ``Erik | sorry, I'm used to travelling with business accomodations :) sheratons, etc... |
| 22:03.03 | brlcad | i don't mind roughing it myself, heck I wouldn't mind pitching a tent -- but when it pertains to business, I'll take the accommodations any day |
| 22:03.09 | Maloeran | Internet seems to be hotel amenity and not for guest rooms. They provide an alarm clock though! |
| 22:03.14 | ``Erik | no motel8's and holiday inns |
| 22:03.24 | ``Erik | uh, I don't want to hear about you pitching a tend, dude |
| 22:03.39 | brlcad | heh |
| 22:03.41 | ``Erik | (now if I were going on my own dime, yeah, I'd be going a bit cheaper) |
| 22:03.43 | Maloeran | A tent and a bicycle is all you need to travel :) |
| 22:03.49 | ``Erik | I mean, i've slept in cars before **shrug* |
| 22:07.38 | Maloeran | Well, I suppose I could cancel the reservation if it's as bad as you suggest. Internet doesn't seem to be a guest room feature |
| 22:07.50 | Maloeran | Do they refund or it's just cancelled? :) |
| 22:10.55 | brlcad | depends on the hotel and their cancellation policy |
| 22:11.05 | ``Erik | um, depends on their policy and how early you cancel... like I said earlier, when going to a conference; get a room as soon as possible and ask about their cancellation policy |
| 22:11.23 | brlcad | i wouldn't cancel it until you have something else, and it really may be fine for you |
| 22:11.37 | brlcad | i was spoiled on business travel *years* ago |
| 22:11.49 | ``Erik | well, it'll be a room... I mean, perfectly suitable |
| 22:12.09 | ``Erik | and if you don't like the specific one you get, you can always ask for another room *shrug* |
| 22:12.15 | brlcad | heh |
| 22:12.44 | brlcad | like choosing between mcdonalds and wendys |
| 22:12.51 | ``Erik | *nod* |
| 22:12.52 | Maloeran | The apparent lack of internet in guest rooms is puzzling |
| 22:13.45 | brlcad | if you're under the same reqs, you just have to keep an eye out on per diem rates and what not |
| 22:13.45 | ``Erik | internet in room is more of an business and better class thing :/ |
| 22:14.01 | Maloeran | "Cancel Policy: Cancel before 4PM hotel time on Sep 16, 2006 to avoid a charge" Okay, no problem there |
| 22:14.28 | ``Erik | make sure you have board lined up before cancelling, though... if you can't find anything else and it gets taken when you're looking, you'll be screwed.. |
| 22:15.02 | Maloeran | Sure. I'm tempted to trust brlcad's judgement and wisdom in these matters |
| 22:15.53 | Maloeran | Besides, I suspect he might rent a car which, if you don't mind, could be appreciated by a passenger if possible |
| 22:17.15 | brlcad | that'll depend on how far away the hotel I get is, so won't know till tomorrow |
| 22:18.09 | brlcad | if it's within a 15-20 min drive or so, I'd probably just stick to cabs and public transportation |
| 22:18.19 | brlcad | if it's farther, I'll get a car |
| 22:20.15 | Maloeran | Right. |
| 22:21.17 | Maloeran | I always relied on bicycle and don't have a driving license, something fairly rare in the united states it seems |
| 22:21.35 | brlcad | in general, yeah |
| 22:21.53 | brlcad | unless you live in a city almost exclusively |
| 22:30.30 | ``Erik | like, downtown city, not burbland |
| 22:30.45 | ``Erik | and it depends on the city, heh... |
| 22:32.10 | brlcad | yeah, and what someone considers a "city" :) pretty much limited to big cities really that have prevalent public transportation |
| 22:32.39 | Maloeran | Indeed, and Montreal's subway is quite nice |
| 22:33.04 | ``Erik | lots of "big" cities have almost no public transportation,a nd some small ones do... |
| 22:33.45 | ``Erik | east coast cities tend to be laid out in a fashion far more viable for not having a car... midwest, southern, and most western ones are not friendly in that regard... |
| 22:34.05 | brlcad | when I lived in panama city, I would have never needed a car for most trips really.. a $3 cab ride would get you just about *anywhere* and like 40% of the cars on the road were cabs, not to mention the 25 cent buses that went everywhere |
| 22:34.18 | ``Erik | just make sure it's a real cab? heh |
| 22:34.57 | brlcad | nah, a lot of them were not "real" .. just some shmoe that slapped a sticker on his car and would charge you a couple bucks to take you somewhere |
| 22:34.59 | Maloeran | I'm guessing that depends of the local culture Erik ; if I'm not mistaken, many americans see a car as much more than a mean of transportation |
| 22:35.11 | Maloeran | Something like a social icon to reflect your personality, maybe |
| 22:35.16 | ``Erik | yeah |
| 22:35.28 | ``Erik | thus all the effort to dress them up |
| 22:35.33 | ``Erik | or try to buy a fancy one |
| 22:35.33 | ``Erik | heh |
| 22:35.34 | ``Erik | :D |
| 22:35.39 | brlcad | still totally depends on where you live and where you need to go |
| 22:35.57 | Maloeran | Which is of course quite unreasonable, right Erik? :) |
| 22:36.01 | ``Erik | 23" spinner rims and hydrolics are not exactly utilitarian |
| 22:36.13 | brlcad | people living exclusively in the cities rarely see them as icons imho |
| 22:36.15 | ``Erik | oh, I bought my car for more than general transportation |
| 22:36.23 | ``Erik | I wanted the "performance" aspect |
| 22:36.36 | ``Erik | depends on which part of which city, dude |
| 22:36.48 | ``Erik | look for, say |
| 22:36.50 | brlcad | the thing is that 90% of the population doesn't live in the cities, they live in suburbia or on the edges or in the middle of nowhere |
| 22:36.51 | ``Erik | spinner rims in the ghetto. |
| 22:37.39 | Maloeran | It was peculiar really, SUVs are rare in Montreal, they were all over the place in Belcamp/Edgewood |
| 22:39.22 | ``Erik | it's actually a fairly 'green' vehicle... 33mph... |
| 22:39.26 | ``Erik | mpg, rather |
| 22:41.11 | brlcad | it's also not really a useful comparison, major city versus some township on the far outskirts of a major city |
| 22:41.35 | Maloeran | 33 miles per gallon = 14.0297423 kilometers per liter You know, Google really impresses me on that one |
| 22:41.46 | brlcad | there are too many suv's in the u.s. for certain, but I'd suspect you'll find a similar trend on the outskirts of .ca cities too |
| 22:41.55 | ``Erik | oddly enough... townships in the sticks are more walkable than many downtown or suburban areas |
| 22:42.21 | ``Erik | I'm told that if you get away from the cities or border in canuckia, big duallie crew cab trucks are very common |
| 22:42.28 | brlcad | yay for metrics, http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_metropolitan_area |
| 22:42.36 | Maloeran | True brlcad, but it's also a matter of culture. European cars of 2 places are very popular in the province of Quebec, and that's the only place in all of North America where they sell any ; there's no market elsewhere |
| 22:42.44 | brlcad | ahh, didn't know that b'more was separated from dc recently |
| 22:43.05 | ``Erik | huh? of two places? O.o |
| 22:43.32 | brlcad | heh, most european cars fail basic standards tests |
| 22:44.07 | ``Erik | the small ones fail safety tests, and many fail emissions tests... the us is more anal than canuckia... |
| 22:44.15 | brlcad | little trucks with 12 inch rims that peak out at 55mph, heh |
| 22:44.18 | ``Erik | like, eurospec m3's were sent to ca, but couldn't be sent to the us :/ |
| 22:44.27 | Maloeran | Yes, I don't know if these cars really are meant for the highways |
| 22:46.41 | ``Erik | (oddly enough, europe has more stringent front collision requirements... but less with side and rear impact, go figure.... (45mph vs our 35mph)) |
| 22:47.36 | brlcad | hm |
| 22:47.48 | brlcad | neither of those really help me when I'm doing triple digits on I95 |
| 22:47.58 | ``Erik | hahaha, true |
| 22:48.33 | ``Erik | 160kph is a bit brisk :) |
| 22:49.51 | Maloeran | Definitely not an energy efficient speed :), on top of being illegal and a few other details |
| 22:50.04 | ``Erik | um, depends on where |
| 22:50.09 | brlcad | http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Baltimore-Washington_Metropolitan_Area hmm 8M |
| 22:50.29 | ``Erik | many roads in the world have no top speed limit, including a few in the US |
| 22:51.01 | ``Erik | colorado, I think, doesn't have daytime upper speed limits on some roads? |
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| 03:48.59 | Maloeran | That was sad, meeting a man of ~50y obsessed with chess in a cafe, carrying books filled with notes and knowing openings and styles in depth. I feel bad for beating him 3 times in a row |
| 03:54.44 | IriX64 | nytol :) |
| 04:17.49 | CIA-9 | BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/ (4 files in 2 dirs): do as the comment suggests and move the htester.c test application that exercises the host to network floating point functions from libbn to libbu |
| 04:23.02 | CIA-9 | BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/libbu/Makefile.am: enable compilation of htester, not installed though |
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| 15:54.01 | brlcad | Maloeran: there are rooms available at the University Guest House |
| 15:54.17 | brlcad | you have to ask for the "Ray Tracing Conference" |
| 15:55.26 | Maloeran | Ah!... That's not exactly the answer I got from their online form |
| 15:55.30 | Maloeran | You called? |
| 16:02.06 | Maloeran | I'm guessing the rooms are specifically reserved for the Ray-tracing conference, so one must ask for it specifically by phone |
| 16:26.30 | brlcad | most hotels aren't set up well for on-line registration, especially for business travel and conferences or most any special accommodations |
| 16:42.59 | Maloeran | So I realize. Thanks |
| 16:43.13 | ``Erik | heh |
| 16:44.11 | Maloeran | Erik, http://mcarp.earthstorm.com/reel/rotter-lowe/index.php?showimage=rotter-lowe-056.jpg&screenwidth=1600 |
| 16:44.35 | Maloeran | Looks like the exterior will be completed soon |
| 16:45.07 | brlcad | woot, all registered and taken care of now |
| 16:46.11 | ``Erik | swank |
| 16:48.05 | ``Erik | http://www.sci.utah.edu/RT06/venue.html#bars w00t |
| 16:48.52 | brlcad | almost picked the monaco because of that :) |
| 16:49.01 | brlcad | where you staying at ``Erik ? |
| 16:49.07 | ``Erik | guest house |
| 16:49.09 | ``Erik | lee is, too |
| 16:50.54 | ``Erik | <-- shoulda given you our flight info, heh |
| 16:53.09 | Maloeran | It's going to be a 14 hours flight with 2 stops for me, fun :) |
| 16:53.59 | Maloeran | I'll arrive in the night of 16 to 17 too, I don't feel like arriving at 3h in the morning after 14 hours of travel to sleep 3 hours before a conference |
| 16:55.51 | ``Erik | heh, my 5 hr nonstop flight looks postiively thrilling compared to that :) |
| 16:58.25 | Maloeran | PHL->SLC? Lucky |
| 17:03.03 | ``Erik | bwi->slc, actually |
| 17:03.27 | Maloeran | I am impressed |
| 17:03.54 | Maloeran | Montreal -> Philadelphia -> Las Vegas -> Salt Lake City |
| 17:04.02 | ``Erik | heh |
| 17:04.16 | ``Erik | <-- stepped back and let an expert figure out his travel *shrug* |
| 17:04.18 | Maloeran | A 5 hours wait at Las Vegas, I might have time to look around |
| 17:04.52 | ``Erik | security in us airports is a long painful process... |
| 17:06.02 | Maloeran | I know that. I don't think I told you that they took my bicycle out of its box last time, put it back all wrong ( the cardbord box had non-planar surfaces ), and covered it with tape "Inspected by the department of homeland security" |
| 17:06.27 | Maloeran | There's no damage though |
| 17:11.42 | ``Erik | "ask for a goldfish" O.o |
| 17:12.13 | ``Erik | that's right, you flew out of bwi... heh |
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| 17:12.27 | ``Erik | I'm not sure how easy it is to leave the airport and get back in during a layover :/ |
| 17:12.51 | Maloeran | I didn't fly out of bwi on that day :) |
| 17:12.56 | ``Erik | many many years ago, it was a simple matter, people left to airport all the time to sightsee or visit friends :/ |
| 17:13.08 | ``Erik | oh? philly? |
| 17:13.15 | Maloeran | The plane was delayed, I was going to miss the next one, so they sent me to Dulles but my luggage went to Philadelphia without me |
| 17:13.25 | ``Erik | heh |
| 17:13.26 | Maloeran | Then my cab had battery problems on the way... |
| 17:13.31 | ``Erik | sweet |
| 17:13.34 | ``Erik | I'd not heard this |
| 17:13.49 | Maloeran | I shared the details in #siggraph the following day, not a pleasant experience :) |
| 17:14.11 | Maloeran | I arrived in Montreal 16 hours later without my luggage |
| 17:14.55 | Maloeran | 16 hours after I arrived 5 hours early at the airport anyway |
| 17:23.03 | brlcad | arriving on the 16th? that'd be cool, considered it |
| 17:23.17 | brlcad | but why not 17th? no flights? |
| 17:23.40 | Maloeran | The only way I could arrive on the 17th would be at 3h in the morning of the 18th |
| 17:24.07 | Maloeran | All the flight options took over 12 hours for me |
| 17:24.26 | brlcad | hmmm |
| 17:27.37 | brlcad | wow, so it is.. not many flights from ymq or yul |
| 17:29.07 | brlcad | one nice thing about the area here, bwi is a major route for most and if that doesn't work there's dulles and reagan airports in DC |
| 17:30.36 | Maloeran | Oh? I seem to always have to go through phl to reach bwi from Montreal |
| 17:34.01 | CIA-9 | BRL-CAD: 03jlowenz * 10brlcad/src/librt/nmg_misc.c: calloc needed to provide initialization of unused/unset bot parameters (i.e. normals) |
| 17:36.28 | CIA-9 | BRL-CAD: 03jlowenz * 10brlcad/src/conv/g-nmg.c: copy the color table from input to output, so colors render properly in converted file |
| 18:41.05 | ``Erik | yeah, canada sucks |
| 18:41.08 | ``Erik | "america jr" :D |
| 18:42.16 | ``Erik | syrup :) |
| 18:42.35 | Maloeran | I reserved at the guest house from the 16th to 18th, I'll have to find something else for the following days... or hopefully someone will cancel to free a room |
| 18:42.53 | ``Erik | are you on the waiting list for 19/20 ? |
| 18:43.26 | Maloeran | Hum, no? |
| 18:43.34 | Maloeran | At least I don't think so |
| 18:45.34 | ``Erik | perhaps tomorrow you should ask |
| 18:45.40 | ``Erik | you're flying out tonight? |
| 18:47.12 | Maloeran | Tomorrow morning |
| 18:47.45 | Maloeran | Arriving in the night from 16 to 17, at 3 am |
| 18:51.41 | Maloeran | 75 people for the conference? Now that's low |
| 18:52.25 | brlcad | roughly what I would have expected for this being first year and all |
| 18:53.00 | brlcad | most of the acm symposiums are not much bigger really, siggraph is the main "enormous" one |
| 18:53.35 | brlcad | also being the general distinction between the symposiums and conferences, the prior being smaller |
| 18:57.03 | ``Erik | ah ha, a calendar on acm.org |
| 18:57.04 | ``Erik | *read* |
| 18:57.22 | ``Erik | oh, nice... 9/18/06-9/20/05 ... |
| 18:58.09 | Maloeran | Something tells me it's going to be difficult to attend that one |
| 18:58.42 | ``Erik | ah, they call their good confs "pldi" and "popl" |
| 19:12.38 | Maloeran | I'm still dreaming of tackling raytracing hardware with whoever will be interested, Prasad sure seemed to be |
| 19:40.24 | Maloeran | Question : Why would CVS list about every file of a project as "Modified files" when commiting, while many definitely haven't been touched at all? |
| 19:40.37 | Maloeran | Does it rely on the time stamp? |
| 19:41.50 | brlcad | if they're marked as M then they are somehow different, likely whitespace might have changed |
| 19:42.19 | brlcad | cvs diff one of the files |
| 19:43.00 | brlcad | if cvs diff -b -B shows nothing, then something is changing the whitespace in the file |
| 19:43.03 | Maloeran | Doesn't print anything on stdout for these files |
| 19:44.23 | Maloeran | I copied the whole dir on laptop and back to work at a cafe, it's the only unusual event I can think of |
| 19:44.42 | ``Erik | heh, the timestamps would throw a M |
| 19:45.07 | Maloeran | Any way to prevent this? No big deal, but that isn't too pretty in the logs |
| 19:45.38 | brlcad | hm, i haven't seen timestamps cause that kind of problem in years, though all my machines are timesynced these days too |
| 19:45.57 | ``Erik | if you're sure everything is all good, "cvs -z3 update -ACPdr" might do it? |
| 19:46.13 | ``Erik | you also don't go around arbitrarily "touch"ing files, right, sean? ;) |
| 19:46.21 | ``Erik | oops |
| 19:46.24 | ``Erik | cvs -z3 update -ACPdR |
| 19:46.30 | brlcad | actually I do sometimes, to affect how it builds |
| 19:46.40 | brlcad | and that still doesn't screw with cvsage |
| 19:46.44 | Maloeran | What would that do? Just making sure that won't remove hours of work or anything.. :) |
| 19:46.45 | ``Erik | cvs backed files? |
| 19:47.08 | ``Erik | it'll force a total checkout, and create a lot of (hopefully identical) .# files |
| 19:47.28 | Maloeran | I copied the directory by scp so time stamps are of course all off |
| 19:47.31 | Maloeran | No way to rely on diff and just ignore time stamps? |
| 19:47.39 | ``Erik | hrmmm |
| 19:47.48 | ``Erik | I just touched a file to fuck the timestamp and tried an update, no M on it |
| 19:47.52 | ``Erik | guess my guess was wrong :/ |
| 19:48.05 | ``Erik | cvs diff it, dude *shrug* :) |
| 19:48.35 | brlcad | does one of the systems use a different EOL? |
| 19:48.44 | Maloeran | No, the files are identical |
| 19:48.53 | brlcad | not the file, the system |
| 19:49.05 | Maloeran | Both Linux |
| 19:49.10 | Maloeran | Even files of 0 bytes are identified as modified |
| 19:49.26 | brlcad | what does cvs status say? |
| 19:49.32 | brlcad | and what version of cvs are you using? |
| 19:49.46 | Maloeran | 1.12.11 |
| 19:50.20 | brlcad | cvs status somefile |
| 19:50.28 | brlcad | does it say "locally modified"? |
| 19:50.34 | Maloeran | cvs status is eating some bandwidth, working on the binary models surely |
| 19:50.48 | brlcad | another possibility is that your CVS dirs are horked somehow |
| 19:51.06 | Maloeran | Status: Up-to-date |
| 19:51.12 | brlcad | like if you copied files from one system to another, but didn't copy the corresponding CVS dirs |
| 19:51.32 | brlcad | heh, that's not M then |
| 19:51.34 | Maloeran | I really copied everything, scp -r |
| 19:51.36 | brlcad | cvs update again |
| 19:51.41 | Maloeran | cvs commit disagrees :) |
| 19:51.52 | brlcad | you have to update before a commit |
| 19:52.27 | brlcad | it'll say M on an update if you receive a modification as well |
| 19:52.43 | brlcad | so you do it twice and it'll say M the first time but not the second |
| 19:53.19 | Maloeran | Right, I didn't update as I'm the only one working on this |
| 19:55.06 | Maloeran | Thanks Shawn and Erik |
| 19:55.50 | Maloeran | Oops :) |
| 19:55.58 | brlcad | spells the right one wrong and the wrong one right ;) |
| 19:58.45 | ``Erik | wow, I'm retarded |
| 19:59.18 | brlcad | and that's the power of positive thinking |
| 19:59.59 | ``Erik | missing break; in a switch, heh |
| 20:00.04 | ``Erik | hurrrrrrr *drool* |
| 20:02.32 | Maloeran | Eheh |
| 20:23.20 | Maloeran | You use int80? :) That's unexpected |
| 20:41.04 | ``Erik | well |
| 20:41.17 | ``Erik | I'm writing a compiler for a turing tarpit language to do some theory crap with |
| 20:41.24 | ``Erik | and I have the frontend all buttoned up |
| 20:41.43 | ``Erik | and I have a modular optimizer... and a backend that produces C code |
| 20:41.55 | ``Erik | now I'm working on one that produces ia32 code (fbsd) |
| 20:41.59 | ``Erik | well |
| 20:42.06 | ``Erik | ia32 at&t asm, for as(1) |
| 20:42.13 | ``Erik | then I'll do one that generates machine code, I suppose |
| 20:42.35 | Maloeran | Oh, just rely on as, assembly encoding is a mess |
| 20:42.47 | ``Erik | um, I know, I've done it before |
| 20:43.03 | ``Erik | wrote (most of) an x86 assembler before, too |
| 20:44.14 | Maloeran | And I did abundant self-modifying code and procedurally generated opcodes in my younger days |
| 20:44.22 | ``Erik | (just cuz I don't think asm is good for app programming doesn't mean I don't know how to use it or never use it..) |
| 20:44.26 | ``Erik | hehehe, I did those on the c64's |
| 20:44.27 | ``Erik | fun stuff |
| 20:45.00 | Maloeran | :) I spent months working on the Warcraft 2 executable and data files in order to tweak the game |
| 20:45.51 | ``Erik | ooh, license violations, ... :D |
| 20:46.20 | Maloeran | Oh hum, oops? :) That sure was long ago |
| 20:47.14 | ``Erik | in the name of education |
| 22:19.23 | *** join/#brlcad cadguy (n=cadguy@c-69-250-146-28.hsd1.md.comcast.net) | |
| 23:52.36 | ``Erik | bah, my label table is not quite right |
| 00:37.07 | IriX64 | A A' :) |
| 00:37.49 | IriX64 | forget how to switch them though and they say a different part of the anatomy is the first to go.:) |
| 00:38.46 | IriX64 | still got the book, programming for the Z80 :) |
| 00:45.16 | IriX64 | so lets see, byte 0 , byte 1 ... byte 512 thats sector 1 then immediatly followed by sector 2 ... to 1024 sectors, then and so on to 256 megs and ive got a portable floppy disk commonly called a jump drive. right? |
| 00:45.42 | IriX64 | left out track but it's implied. |
| 00:46.07 | IriX64 | fat is appropriate. |
| 00:46.20 | IriX64 | fat32 can be supported. |
| 00:46.30 | IriX64 | somebody check me. |
| 01:06.26 | IriX64 | where do i find #devicedriverwriters :) |
| 01:16.58 | Maloeran | Efnet's #kernel for Linux driver development, I'm sure there's something on freenode too |
| 01:18.11 | brlcad | same channel |
| 01:27.10 | brlcad | heh |
| 01:27.40 | Twingy | sean, I'm gonna make a bike that generates energy back into the grid |
| 01:28.09 | Twingy | it'll generate like 2 cents an hour :} |
| 01:29.11 | brlcad | heh, would make for a nice business venture for health clubs |
| 01:29.18 | Twingy | hehe |
| 01:30.03 | Twingy | heh |
| 01:30.15 | Twingy | only $10k in equipment |
| 01:30.25 | Maloeran | I'll only need 250 hours at 200 watt to risk exceeding that 5$ gift limit the next time I drop by |
| 01:30.34 | Twingy | haha |
| 01:31.09 | Twingy | I think I will need to make it an energy capture machine |
| 01:31.26 | Twingy | because at < 175W it doesn't do anything |
| 01:31.34 | Twingy | rerun |
| 01:36.14 | brlcad | er, don't think this is a rerun -- at least i haven't seen it |
| 01:36.44 | brlcad | and it just referred to the new episode from two weeks about about takara getting blown up |
| 01:37.35 | Twingy | ah |
| 01:37.41 | Twingy | well, I'll watch it in 2 hours |
| 01:37.47 | Twingy | comes on at 11 again |
| 01:42.16 | brlcad | the allucian alliance thanks you |
| 01:49.34 | *** join/#brlcad dan_falck (n=danfalck@pool-71-111-76-8.ptldor.dsl-w.verizon.net) | |
| 02:04.59 | CIA-9 | BRL-CAD: 03lbutler * 10brlcad/src/librt/ (150 files): Doxygen updates |
| 02:24.54 | IriX64 | you picked a fyne tyme to leave me lucille ;) |
| 02:26.51 | IriX64 | sigh , I can hear the flapping of wings, but the song eludes me. :) |
| 03:11.18 | Maloeran | Erik, question : would it be of any value for ray-tracing nodes to be able to join and depart the work network at any time? |
| 03:12.33 | ``Erik | I think so |
| 03:13.11 | Maloeran | Okay, that's what I initially had in mind. Still planning chunks of distributed preparation and synchronisation |
| 03:17.49 | Maloeran | To translate fully built graphs from pointers back into indices for newly joined nodes is rather akward |
| 05:33.42 | CIA-9 | BRL-CAD: 03lbutler * 10brlcad/misc/doxygen_structure: Doxygen updates for librt |
| 07:29.52 | *** join/#brlcad clock_ (i=clock@84-72-88-219.dclient.hispeed.ch) | |
| 08:00.47 | CIA-9 | BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/misc/Makefile.defs: rework the noprod logic for issue encountered on netbsd on vax where the shell is invoking with a different precedence on &&/||, so be more explicit |
| 11:23.15 | *** join/#brlcad SWPadnos_ (n=Me@dsl245.esjtvtli.sover.net) | |
| 14:59.13 | ``Erik | see ya in utah, dude |
| 15:07.12 | brlcad | wooh hooo! got benchmark working under vax finally |
| 15:07.33 | brlcad | stupid libm bug |
| 15:07.45 | brlcad | yeah, see ya Maloeran .. happy trails |
| 15:31.38 | ``Erik | nifty |
| 15:31.45 | ``Erik | and how many vgr's is a vgr? |
| 15:47.29 | brlcad | eh, don't know that yet.. still running the benchmark :) |
| 15:48.08 | brlcad | it's on 3 of 6 and been going for about an hour |
| 15:48.59 | brlcad | it's down to just a few hundred rays per sec though, so it should be interesting |
| 15:49.57 | brlcad | this isn't an optimized build yet either, so technically it could be even slower than 1 vgr if the originals were optimized (which I don't know if they were or not) |
| 15:50.45 | brlcad | though it certainly seems to feel like it's in the 0 to 10 vgr range |
| 15:52.21 | brlcad | spent *hours* last night debugging trying to figure out why it was crashing, stack would hose after calling atan2() and gdb would infinite loop up on certain prints of floats |
| 15:53.15 | brlcad | then spent hours relinking with a static libm just to make testing a little easier, and the problem was solved -- had to hack up libbn a little for vax floating point, but it's all good now |
| 16:22.36 | *** join/#brlcad clock_ (i=clock@84-72-60-33.dclient.hispeed.ch) | |
| 17:48.03 | ``Erik | O.o |
| 17:53.47 | brlcad | Summary: |
| 17:53.47 | brlcad | Abs unknown 1198.23 432.80 371.64 346.31 639.24 642.15 605.06 Fri Sep 15 09:06:11 EDT 2006 |
| 17:53.50 | brlcad | *vgr unknown 8.74 6.45 6.62 6.49 9.04 .04 6.23 |
| 17:54.35 | brlcad | not to shabby.. i think it is throttled, just perhaps throttled to a faster vax than vgr used to be (which I can probably tweak via simh settings) |
| 17:56.34 | brlcad | also exposes a problem in the m35 reference image I think.. it still had the usual 74 off by 1 (though also 3 off by many) |
| 17:57.31 | brlcad | have to check the logs but i'm guessing someone uploaded a new ref image, keeping the same performance log, causing the continued off-by-1 numbers everywhere |
| 18:26.02 | ``Erik | <-- not so good at reading vgr accounts, mostly looks for the stuff in the -=-=-= |
| 18:30.24 | ``Erik | maybe you should run a really old version (like, the version our vgr's are based off of) to tune the vm, changes in the code may have improved efficiency... |
| 18:30.24 | ``Erik | :) |
| 18:43.27 | brlcad | vgr is the last number on the vgr line, 6.23 |
| 18:43.44 | brlcad | it's an average of the individual runs, which preceed it |
| 18:43.57 | brlcad | line before it is the same, but with rtfm counts |
| 18:44.45 | brlcad | i was thinking the same regarding improvements, that could very well explain the variations too if there were, say optimizations to the sphere shot routine |
| 18:45.00 | brlcad | checking to see if kermit can pull up some old binaries even |
| 18:45.17 | brlcad | though i really dont' want to install 4.3 bsd.. |
| 18:51.44 | ``Erik | um, compile old source on it? |
| 18:51.56 | ``Erik | maybe hack the simh config to make it like a 1ghz vax for the compile? hehehe |
| 18:52.50 | brlcad | still trying to find out if simh is clock synced |
| 18:52.58 | brlcad | or even settable |
| 19:20.24 | ``Erik | it's written in C... you have the source code... it's all settable. :D |
| 19:28.45 | brlcad | heh |
| 19:28.51 | brlcad | actually i've gotten some more info |
| 19:29.27 | brlcad | it's simulating a microvax II (1985), not a vax 11/780 (1979) |
| 19:29.43 | brlcad | i'm having trouble booting up the 11/780 simulator, but giving it a go |
| 19:30.25 | brlcad | someone who seems to be in the know in classiccmp seems to think it's not throttled, just happens to run about that slow |
| 19:41.20 | ``Erik | eck |
| 19:41.55 | ``Erik | what's cpu load when it's chunking? |
| 19:42.00 | brlcad | not sure i believe him though -- it's too close |
| 19:42.10 | brlcad | it's full cpu, single threaded |
| 19:42.26 | ``Erik | huh, if it's burning a full core, maybe it just IS that slow :/ |
| 19:42.38 | brlcad | it's full cpu even if it's idle |
| 19:42.50 | ``Erik | busywait :/ |
| 19:43.30 | brlcad | heh, http://www.openbsd.org/images/vax.jpg |
| 19:43.51 | ``Erik | hahahaa |
| 19:49.07 | ``Erik | amusing, I look for a pic of an 11/780 and it takes me to ftp.arl.mil |
| 19:50.52 | IriX64 | thats a hell of a hot vax. :) |
| 19:53.18 | IriX64 | simh eh? lets try. |
| 19:58.15 | *** join/#brlcad IriX64_ (n=IriX64@bas3-sudbury98-1168056792.dsl.bell.ca) | |
| 19:58.44 | IriX64_ | was asking, what are you benchmarking the simulated machine with brlcad? |
| 20:02.37 | IriX64 | :) |
| 02:05.36 | *** join/#brlcad PrezKennedy (n=Apathy@c-68-55-177-2.hsd1.md.comcast.net) | |
| 02:30.36 | brlcad | pretty incredible |
| 02:31.46 | dtidrow | why is that? |
| 02:32.47 | brlcad | the announcement about lilo |
| 02:33.10 | brlcad | worked with him quite a bit over the years |
| 02:33.19 | dtidrow | ah |
| 02:33.42 | dtidrow | kinda reminds me of when Mike passed away |
| 02:33.56 | brlcad | extensive discussions about the pdpc, cloaks, the network, etc |
| 02:34.28 | brlcad | yeah, kinda if only because of the unexpected nature |
| 02:34.40 | dtidrow | inded |
| 02:35.13 | brlcad | though not in the least bit the same personalities, talent, etc |
| 02:35.47 | brlcad | still a sad occurance |
| 02:36.54 | brlcad | i think Freenode's done more in support of open source than anything else, fostering development and communications |
| 02:37.25 | PrezKennedy | im using my mod points to put the smackdown on some jackasses commenting about it on slashdot |
| 02:38.11 | PrezKennedy | im so apathetic about them... im like... eh ive got mod points... now i have to find something to mod |
| 03:30.24 | Maloeran | Amazing, they got both power outlets and wireless access at the Las Vegas airport |
| 03:31.24 | Maloeran | A fairly strange place too. |
| 03:34.08 | Maloeran | What happened to lilo? googling |
| 03:36.52 | Maloeran | Woah! Okay, I just noticed the messages about lilo |
| 03:42.08 | Twingy | silly people not wearing their helmets |
| 03:44.55 | Maloeran | It really depends where you ride... but I can't imagine Huston, Texas to be very friendly to bicycles |
| 03:47.13 | Twingy | I am really leaning toward an electric bike |
| 03:47.27 | Twingy | will be more than a year before I can afford though |
| 03:48.21 | Maloeran | Oh? Well, you could begin with a standard bicycle |
| 03:48.53 | Maloeran | Even if it's just to replace your runs at first, I think it might be more pleasant |
| 03:49.30 | Maloeran | And you'll be able to join Lee on his saturday morning rides :} |
| 03:55.05 | Twingy | what do you think the probability of me choosing to spend my time riding with Lee on saturday mornings is :) |
| 03:57.00 | Maloeran | Who knows, you might fall in love with bicycle riding once you try and reject all your previous hobbies :) |
| 03:58.23 | Twingy | ...and I might also discover how to put a rocket in space with a table spoon of sugar |
| 03:58.55 | dtidrow | well, with the right mix of potassium perchlorate..... ;-) |
| 03:59.19 | Twingy | btw, I used to ride my bike 7 miles back and forth to work for a couple years |
| 04:00.33 | Maloeran | Oh, good |
| 04:01.42 | Twingy | 15 - 17 before I got a suzuki |
| 04:02.50 | Maloeran | The battery on my laptop seems quite poor. It might be related to the acpi governor apparently not working so the frequency remains at 1.8ghz |
| 04:03.14 | Maloeran | Any suggestion on some kind of battery I could carry in my back pack, for hours of use? :) Even if it must weight 10kg |
| 04:04.26 | Maloeran | At the moment, I can get a whole 75 minutes or so |
| 04:04.30 | Twingy | COTS or custom? |
| 04:05.05 | Twingy | what's the voltage of your battery |
| 04:05.23 | Maloeran | COTS? |
| 04:05.28 | Twingy | commercial off the shelf |
| 04:05.37 | Maloeran | 14400mV |
| 04:05.44 | Maloeran | 2000mAh design capacity |
| 04:05.46 | Twingy | 14.4V |
| 04:05.51 | Twingy | 2Ah |
| 04:05.56 | Twingy | what about the DC input |
| 04:06.01 | Twingy | (charger) |
| 04:06.03 | Maloeran | Already down to 1853mAh maximum after two full discharges |
| 04:06.24 | Twingy | what's the specs on the charger |
| 04:06.34 | Twingy | 18V @ 3A? |
| 04:06.54 | Maloeran | 19V @ 3.4A |
| 04:06.59 | Twingy | k |
| 04:07.58 | Maloeran | A big heavy battery in the back pack to last 10 hours would be great |
| 04:08.03 | Twingy | http://www.batteryspace.com/index.asp?PageAction=VIEWPROD&ProdID=986 |
| 04:08.18 | Twingy | that'll double your juice |
| 04:09.17 | Twingy | ~1.25kg |
| 04:09.28 | Twingy | 1.5kg |
| 04:09.43 | Maloeran | Interesting |
| 04:09.53 | Twingy | good for 1,000 charges |
| 04:10.10 | Maloeran | Is there anything massive for hours of use without worry? |
| 04:10.10 | Twingy | and cheap |
| 04:10.15 | Twingy | um |
| 04:10.18 | Twingy | let me figure something ou |
| 04:10.50 | Maloeran | Something to plug the laptop in as if it were a power outlet, I am guessing |
| 04:14.10 | Twingy | I could easily make you anything |
| 04:14.20 | Twingy | but nothing I can see off the shelf |
| 04:14.45 | Maloeran | Right, I see. That could be an interesting little project |
| 04:15.08 | Twingy | if you want, paypal me 110% the cost of the materials and shipping and its yours |
| 04:15.17 | Maloeran | Turn my back pack into one massive laptop battery that will prevent me of getting through any airport security |
| 04:15.29 | Twingy | nah |
| 04:16.17 | dtidrow | Maloeran: "Is there anything massive for hours of use without worry?" - probably a small generator would be the best bet |
| 04:16.52 | Maloeran | Generating the electricity from what? I don't see anything else than batteries being practical... |
| 04:18.37 | Twingy | you could go fuel cell, but you'll spend a small fortune |
| 04:18.49 | Twingy | cause the hydrogen generator and compressor aint cheap |
| 04:19.15 | Maloeran | Fuel cells are forbidden on airplanes now |
| 04:19.40 | Twingy | I so go with that kit I just pasted |
| 04:19.42 | Twingy | *say |
| 04:19.44 | Twingy | $50 |
| 04:19.50 | Twingy | and you double your life |
| 04:19.50 | Maloeran | Yes, it's surely an improvement |
| 04:20.02 | Twingy | that's what I would get |
| 04:20.18 | Maloeran | *nods* Thanks for the tip |
| 04:20.39 | Twingy | order two if you want more |
| 04:20.56 | Twingy | you can always wire them in parallel if you have the adapters and heat shrink |
| 04:21.05 | Maloeran | Or just swap once in a while |
| 04:21.11 | Twingy | yep |
| 04:21.21 | Twingy | I mean I can build you one that'll keep it powered for 10 hours |
| 04:21.26 | Twingy | but it'll cost you like $250 |
| 04:21.34 | Twingy | and weigh like 10kg |
| 04:21.37 | Twingy | err 5k |
| 04:21.39 | Twingy | 5kg |
| 04:21.48 | Maloeran | If it goes through airports, that's not too bad |
| 04:22.11 | Twingy | but why not just switch a battery every 90 minutes |
| 04:22.17 | Maloeran | Right. |
| 04:22.22 | Twingy | surely it's not that much of an interruption |
| 04:22.28 | *** join/#brlcad IriX64 (n=IriX64@bas3-sudbury98-1168054869.dsl.bell.ca) | |
| 04:22.29 | Twingy | I get up and stretch more often than that |
| 04:23.04 | Twingy | there's always a hand crank that charges a battery |
| 04:23.10 | Maloeran | Argh! *sobs* I don't see how the noise of slot machines is not driving anyone crazy, I'm almost tempted to put up the volume of my Brahms |
| 04:23.18 | dtidrow | or solar cells |
| 04:23.29 | Twingy | solar is not practical |
| 04:23.33 | Twingy | I always bring head phones |
| 04:23.39 | brlcad | heh |
| 04:23.45 | brlcad | Maloeran: in the airport now? |
| 04:23.50 | dtidrow | more than a hand crank |
| 04:23.56 | Maloeran | Yes, waiting 5 hours at Las Vegas |
| 04:24.12 | brlcad | yeesh |
| 04:24.19 | brlcad | have fun |
| 04:24.26 | Twingy | go play some slots :} |
| 04:24.30 | brlcad | heh |
| 04:24.37 | IriX64 | *don't lose :) |
| 04:24.43 | Twingy | see if you can write some code to beat it |
| 04:24.57 | Maloeran | I'm statistically losing, you'll never see me put a quarter in those things :) |
| 04:25.00 | brlcad | or find a hammer to beat it |
| 04:25.22 | Maloeran | The only such game I'll ever play is Poker Texas Hold'em with my AI to.. pretty much decide everything |
| 04:25.26 | Twingy | anything is better than this mostly dead 9.6V |
| 04:25.34 | IriX64 | if you don't play you win :) |
| 04:25.52 | Twingy | if you don't play you don't get free meal comps |
| 04:26.11 | IriX64 | free? |
| 04:26.12 | brlcad | I'm statistically dying, but you don't see me not breathing from time to time ;) |
| 04:27.02 | dtidrow | http://www.aquaticeco.com/index.cfm/fuseaction/product.detail/iid/12728/cid/3399 |
| 04:27.12 | dtidrow | only 50lb ;-) |
| 04:27.42 | Maloeran | <brlcad> I'm statistically dying, but you don't see me not breathing from time to time ;) |
| 04:27.49 | Maloeran | Oops |
| 04:28.07 | Maloeran | Trying to copy/paste urls with that a mousepad, not a pleasant task |
| 04:28.19 | brlcad | dtidrow: that's not a bad price either |
| 04:28.52 | brlcad | Maloeran: well, i think you got the paste part down at least ;) |
| 04:29.12 | dtidrow | brlcad: indeed |
| 04:29.14 | Maloeran | It's curious, it seems to "unlick" after 1 second which gives little time to select anything properly |
| 04:30.01 | dtidrow | brlcad: and only slightly heavier than that alienware 'laptop' I carted around siggraph this year ;-) |
| 04:30.02 | brlcad | i hate it when things unlick |
| 04:30.57 | Maloeran | When are you arriving, Sean, and Erik and Lee if you know? |
| 04:31.24 | dtidrow | you guys all going to a conference? |
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| 04:32.00 | Maloeran | Some of us are, yes |
| 04:32.23 | dtidrow | what's the conference? |
| 04:32.52 | Maloeran | Some ray-tracing thing in Salt Lake City for 3 days |
| 04:33.20 | dtidrow | ah, that one - I remember you guys talking about it last month |
| 04:33.27 | dtidrow | have fun :-) |
| 04:33.57 | Twingy | ray-tracing, hah, that'll never catch on |
| 04:34.05 | brlcad | Maloeran: I arrive mid-day |
| 04:34.20 | brlcad | dtidrow: http://www.sci.utah.edu/RT06/index.html |
| 04:34.47 | dtidrow | yeah, I looked at it last time you posted the link :-) |
| 04:34.47 | Maloeran | Nice, better choice than my 2 a.m. local, or 4 am for my biological clock |
| 04:35.23 | brlcad | i'm supposed to wake up in 4 hours for my flight, flying west is always .. a trip |
| 04:36.36 | Maloeran | Neat |
| 04:36.43 | ``Erik | heh |
| 04:37.07 | ``Erik | the rooms have mini-fridges |
| 04:37.26 | Maloeran | When do you arrive, Erik? |
| 04:37.35 | ``Erik | like 5pm mst |
| 04:37.37 | IriX64 | nice page... you people must be excited about it. |
| 04:37.59 | ``Erik | sharing transportation with lee |
| 04:38.05 | Maloeran | Not excited at all, no :), I would rather have stayed home to code |
| 04:38.23 | ``Erik | I might try to get him to stop by a package shop on the way |
| 04:38.40 | IriX64 | Malorean: duty calls thing I assume or "told" to go? |
| 04:38.46 | dtidrow | gotta go check on the baby and get some sleep - 'nite all... |
| 04:38.59 | IriX64 | err spelt it wrong. |
| 04:39.08 | Maloeran | Technically, I could refuse as a consultant I imagine, that didn't seem very polite though |
| 04:39.20 | IriX64 | hah true. |
| 04:40.02 | Twingy | hrm |
| 04:40.10 | Twingy | I want this $110 sliding table for my drill press :| |
| 04:40.19 | Maloeran | Okay, having a walk elsewhere before the slot machine noise destroys what remains of my sanity, see you later or tomorrow |
| 04:40.31 | IriX64 | ciao |
| 04:40.36 | Twingy | you should record some of that :) |
| 04:40.40 | Twingy | you can use it for your alarm clock |
| 04:40.52 | Maloeran | Ahaha :) |
| 04:42.31 | Twingy | and a 6" vice |
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| 04:44.06 | Twingy | and a small swivel vise |
| 04:49.54 | IriX64 | a swise :) |
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| 19:13.08 | Maloeran | It was not even music, it was a random sequence of notes every time someone pressed some button, and there were 8-12 overlapping sources of such noise |
| 20:08.42 | *** join/#brlcad PrezKennedy (n=Apathy@c-68-55-177-2.hsd1.md.comcast.net) | |
| 20:09.26 | PrezKennedy | heres a great question i got from a friend "who still uses IRC?" |
| 20:10.28 | Maloeran | No living being, we are the wandering souls of former geeks |
| 20:12.48 | PrezKennedy | does this mean im dead? |
| 20:14.45 | Maloeran | It depends, some of us are also artifical intelligences stuck on pursuing our task of providing social interactions for our lost masters forever |
| 21:11.27 | Maloeran | Is anyone at Salt Lake city yet? :) My room number is 239 if you want to meet today |
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| 23:27.54 | Maloeran | That's a hilly ride, many mountains and canyons in the way, but I trust your path-finding algorithms can overcome such obstacles |
| 23:57.44 | Twingy | indeed |
| 23:58.18 | Twingy | I need some stuff from digikey |
| 00:07.06 | Maloeran | I think what I dislike most in a completely new environment is finding where to get good food and how to get there, without a bicycle |
| 00:17.28 | Twingy | order a pizza |
| 00:26.45 | Maloeran | Or hopefully, they might eventually arrive to dine somewhere together |
| 00:27.46 | Maloeran | There they are! |
| 01:07.48 | Maloeran | Saw them arriving but no contact yet. Oh well, food time |
| 02:56.39 | *** join/#brlcad digitalfredy (n=digitalf@200.71.62.161) | |
| 03:37.58 | Maloeran | Ah there you are :) |
| 03:39.26 | CIA-9 | BRL-CAD: 03lbutler * 10brlcad/include/forms.h: We no longer use forms |
| 03:40.15 | Maloeran | Eh, Lee is back at work |
| 03:42.44 | Maloeran | Erik, where's your comics.php page again? |
| 04:33.13 | Twingy | designing a cheap 'black box' to provide the appropriate voltage and current to the xantrex gt2.5 is rather challenging |
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| 05:24.47 | CIA-9 | BRL-CAD: 03lbutler * 10brlcad/include/ (70 files): Doxygen updates |
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| 09:37.04 | CIA-9 | BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/include/Makefile.am: forms.h was removed, apparently unused |
| 09:39.50 | CIA-9 | BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/sh/ (footer.sh header.sh): automatically detect a slew of script types by looking at the first line of the file -- if the /bin/* is recognizable, then the file doesn't need a suffix after all. |
| 09:40.15 | CIA-9 | BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/README: case consistency |
| 09:43.57 | CIA-9 | BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/archer/archer: file name is just archer, not archer.sh |
| 09:46.55 | brlcad | oop, sry Maloeran .. didn't bother hopping back on until now, in 109 |
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| 12:51.23 | ``Erik | mal: math.missouristate.edu/~erik/comics/comic.php |
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| 23:26.10 | Maloeran | It sure feels weird to apparently be the only one using something else than kdtrees, bhv and grids at that conference |
| 23:33.00 | ``Erik | that's why you'll be presenting at the next one ;) |
| 23:36.27 | Maloeran | Ow, I'm not too comfortable with that :). I'm curious, someone had mentionned precalculated triangles that are faster but less suitable for dynamic geometry |
| 23:37.05 | Maloeran | My ray-triangle test obviously is based on a precalculated form, so maybe it is known after all |
| 23:38.58 | ``Erik | probably **shrug8 |
| 23:55.07 | brlcad | a quick search through acm, ieee, and jgt would likely tell you that pretty quickly I'd imagine |
| 23:56.43 | brlcad | still, even if it was tried, I doubt it was anytime recently and probably not using all the other current techniques of coherency, simd parallelism, etc |
| 00:01.41 | Maloeran | Right, it at least doesn't seen very popular these days. We probably should sit down and go over these techniques soon enough... |
| 00:02.00 | Maloeran | doesn't seem, rather |
| 00:18.40 | PrezKennedy | brrrr cold day in hell today |
| 00:18.53 | PrezKennedy | giving someone programming lessons for FREE |
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| 03:17.07 | Maloeran | Ahah. Might be old news for some, but China's peacekeeping forces in Afghanistan are of one policeman since 2004 |
| 03:22.08 | ``Erik | yargh, mateys, shiver me timbers |
| 03:23.05 | Maloeran | I'm tempted to rather blame the beer, you sure drank a lot... |
| 03:23.27 | ``Erik | heh |
| 03:23.59 | ``Erik | it contributed, but not the root cause |
| 03:25.40 | Maloeran | Yes perhaps so, you could try lighter food sometimes too, salads can be quite good |
| 03:25.42 | DTRemenak | there is a (short) border between afghanistan and china |
| 03:25.50 | Maloeran | Eh well, one policeman, I think that's fairly symbolic |
| 03:25.57 | DTRemenak | why not have a policeman sit on it? :) |
| 03:27.08 | Maloeran | Feeling good enough to have a look at RF/graph.c, Erik? :) |
| 03:27.20 | ``Erik | sure |
| 03:27.24 | ``Erik | actually, I'm feelign dandy now |
| 03:27.39 | ``Erik | I took a racehorse leak and felt MUCH better, heh, lack of abdominal pressure. |
| 03:27.57 | Maloeran | Definitely too much beer :), this stuff takes volume |
| 03:28.46 | ``Erik | ok, my checkout is old, I don't have that file... |
| 03:28.50 | ``Erik | trying to update... |
| 03:29.22 | ``Erik | rebuilding |
| 03:29.32 | ``Erik | lee was wondering if we should group and do a walkthrough this evening |
| 03:29.49 | Maloeran | Oh, would be fine with me |
| 03:30.31 | ``Erik | he also noted that he would like a chance to read through, before, however *shrug* |
| 03:31.03 | Maloeran | I feel like I have started working on this stuff two whole years ago, and I never shared anything on it besides some early details with Justin |
| 03:32.11 | ``Erik | "graphTraceDualIn()" I presume? |
| 03:32.19 | Maloeran | Sure that will do |
| 03:34.40 | ``Erik | ermmmmm, whoa, wait, I was way off on names, heh |
| 03:34.46 | ``Erik | it's jakko that did the series of articles |
| 03:34.48 | ``Erik | my bad |
| 03:36.06 | ``Erik | http://www.flipcode.com/articles/portals_issue01.shtml |
| 03:36.48 | ``Erik | http://www.devmaster.net/articles/graphics_alg/ section 3.4 |
| 03:38.16 | ``Erik | havoc, shit, that's the gtk/gnome/metacity dude, heh, hurrrr |
| 03:41.08 | Maloeran | It's a bit different in the worlds of rasterization and ray-tracing still |
| 03:44.20 | ``Erik | *nod* |
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| 04:16.33 | Maloeran | I guess we'll rather do a walkthrough tomorrow or the next day |
| 04:18.17 | CIA-9 | BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/doc/README.VAX: add an initial README for VAX given a compile does seem to still be possible via simh. provide the details on what has to be done. |
| 04:18.31 | CIA-9 | BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/doc/Makefile.am: add README.VAX |
| 04:19.27 | CIA-9 | BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/doc/README.AIX: add initial details about how much of a pain it is to compiled with the IBM Visual Age compiler on AIX, but that it is possible. |
| 04:20.25 | CIA-9 | BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/doc/README.BSD: refer to README.VAX for getting BSD running on the VAX platform, mention that BRL-CAD is in the FreeBSD ports system. |
| 04:21.14 | CIA-9 | BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/doc/ (README.Linux README.MacOSX README.Solaris README.Windows): add title header |
| 04:29.24 | CIA-9 | BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/libbu/.cvsignore: ignore the new noinst htester |
| 05:04.33 | Twingy | oops, too late |
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| 06:24.34 | Twingy | done! |
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| 17:29.48 | CIA-9 | BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/ (BUGS TODO): speling |
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| 17:52.00 | IriX64 | driver turned out better than i hoped :) |
| 17:53.55 | IriX64 | fat32 works... yay. |
| 17:55.23 | IriX64 | haha meantime brlcad compiles away in cygwin, sweet. |
| 17:56.29 | IriX64 | ValarQ: you think gentoo is nice? you should see XP+ :) |
| 18:00.45 | ValarQ | whats XP+ ? |
| 18:06.51 | IriX64 | *my windows xp professional :) |
| 18:08.38 | IriX64 | 60 gig partition limit? get real. |
| 18:09.16 | IriX64 | partition too. |
| 18:10.43 | ValarQ | i got a 500GB partition |
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| 18:10.59 | ValarQ | 3 250GB disks :) |
| 18:11.04 | IriX64 | mine is all one disk. |
| 18:11.19 | IriX64 | err that should be 750 then. |
| 18:11.27 | ValarQ | oh, wait, 200GB disks 400GB total in this machine |
| 18:12.11 | ValarQ | sata with raid5 :) |
| 18:12.15 | IriX64 | ermf. math wiz :) |
| 18:12.41 | IriX64 | brb gotta let the dog out. |
| 18:18.14 | IriX64 | back |
| 18:18.21 | IriX64 | where were we? |
| 18:18.37 | IriX64 | comparing shiny toys :) |
| 18:19.01 | IriX64 | mines a maxtor py200 ValarQ whats yours? |
| 18:22.08 | ValarQ | Maxtor 6L200M0 |
| 18:22.36 | IriX64 | very recent model right? |
| 18:23.07 | IriX64 | have a laugh do a /ver on me. :) |
| 18:23.42 | IriX64 | freshly compiled and perl works. |
| 18:23.56 | ValarQ | cygwin :/ |
| 18:24.05 | IriX64 | yes funny eh? |
| 18:24.24 | ValarQ | nah, mostly tragic |
| 18:24.34 | IriX64 | i call it unix high on windows. :) |
| 18:24.58 | IriX64 | tragic? you fel sorry for me ?:) |
| 18:25.04 | IriX64 | feel too. |
| 18:25.30 | IriX64 | ValarQ: It runs brlcad. |
| 18:26.03 | IriX64 | errr compiles and runs it. |
| 18:26.53 | IriX64 | GNU is underrated. |
| 18:29.04 | IriX64 | 6.0 however installed. |
| 18:31.15 | IriX64 | got warp4 installed on it now but for some reason it's slow as molasses. |
| 18:33.18 | IriX64 | well gotta warm up photoshop again ;) |
| 18:33.25 | IriX64 | see you soon. |
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| 04:09.54 | brlcad | hmm, that was |
| 04:10.11 | brlcad | a bit slowly |
| 04:10.23 | brlcad | presented for my taste |
| 04:10.31 | brlcad | arrr |
| 04:26.38 | Maloeran | Yes, the guy didn't seem very fast |
| 04:26.57 | Maloeran | But he actually picked my curiosity. As far as I can see, you can not have continuity with bezier triangles |
| 04:29.25 | Maloeran | Unless of course the two triangles have the same size exactly, which is... not very practical |
| 04:30.26 | Maloeran | I need to look over my curved facets again, it has been like an year since I wrote that and got attracted by more shiny problems |
| 04:47.32 | brlcad | it's an interesting problem, but seems like a rather limited utility domain |
| 04:48.14 | Maloeran | Not if the continuity is preserved for any mesh of triangles, if it's flexible and fast |
| 04:48.17 | brlcad | i mean perhaps if it were ubiquitous and implemented in hardware, esposed by opengl 4.0 or something, etc |
| 04:48.24 | Maloeran | Then you save a whole lot of memory to represent, let's say, an apple |
| 04:49.27 | brlcad | i mean topologically and representation wise, it doesn't buy you much over a nurbs |
| 04:49.39 | brlcad | other than the potential to evaluate lower order |
| 04:50.00 | Maloeran | Oh, but nurbs are horribly costly to intersect |
| 04:50.11 | brlcad | that's what I mean |
| 04:50.18 | Maloeran | The point is to have some very simple curved facets, as simple as they can be, which are very fast to intersect |
| 04:50.21 | brlcad | it's lower order, so considerably faster |
| 04:51.39 | Maloeran | Yes... but typical nurbs are still rather expensive, even low order ones |
| 04:52.13 | Maloeran | My idea is rather simple, I think we'll go over that tomorrow afternoon |
| 04:52.33 | brlcad | if you can't go from implicit or nurbs to these bezier triangles or whatever you want to call them, faithfully.. |
| 04:53.15 | Maloeran | I'm thinking CSG -> curved facets could be really nice |
| 04:53.52 | Maloeran | or high order nurbs -> curved facets |
| 04:54.04 | Maloeran | I don't believe much in transforming triangles into curved facets |
| 04:54.18 | brlcad | i wasn't disputing that nurbs are expensive, I was saying that topologically and representation wise, it doesn't buy you much other than that evaluation diff |
| 04:54.30 | Maloeran | Right |
| 04:55.39 | brlcad | i'm sure there's probably some tradeoff difference there as well depending on how many curvies you'd need to faithfully represent the equivalent patch/implicit |
| 04:56.30 | brlcad | curvies, I like that |
| 04:56.34 | Maloeran | Quite true. What I'm thinking is that we could reach better accuracy, performance and memory use with such curved facets rather than triangles |
| 04:56.46 | Maloeran | For some surfaces anyway |
| 04:56.53 | brlcad | yeah, that would be nice |
| 04:57.10 | brlcad | though I'm curious about a couple of the papers tomorrow regarding fast nurbs evaluation |
| 04:57.29 | Maloeran | I briefly shared some theory with Lee and Erik last month, but apparently, I'm not supposed to work on this stuff before all the other requirements are met |
| 04:57.48 | brlcad | you can work on whatever you want |
| 04:57.51 | brlcad | just not on the clock :) |
| 04:57.53 | Maloeran | Yes, let's hope it's better than what's presently on the internet |
| 04:58.06 | Maloeran | Oh, true :) |
| 04:59.30 | brlcad | "not supposed to work on XXX" sometimes also just means don't talk about XXX while working too ;) |
| 05:08.57 | Maloeran | *nods* I'm getting the idea :) |
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| 13:26.07 | Maloeran | Erik, I'll turn that btree of side nodes into a weird tree/list hybrid, thanks for the random thought :) |
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| 16:58.36 | PrezKennedy | i have no fortune on bzflag.bz!! |
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| 02:41.23 | IriX64 | Hey twingy, what's your heat source? |
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| 09:02.46 | LibertyTrooper | Know nothing newbie alert |
| 09:04.01 | LibertyTrooper | So, anyone home? |
| 09:04.15 | LibertyTrooper | Or, is it too late in da evening? |
| 09:16.48 | LibertyTrooper | So, this is probably futile; I'm attempting to run BRLCAD on OSX and not having luck. Of course, I'm simply executing the /usr/brlcad/bin/mged command but I've tried passing it tank.g as an option. |
| 09:17.03 | LibertyTrooper | I get some error mumbo jumbo : Major opcode of failed request: 129 |
| 09:17.20 | *** join/#brlcad clock_ (n=clock@zux221-122-143.adsl.green.ch) | |
| 09:17.20 | LibertyTrooper | perhaps someone can shed some light on this? |
| 09:17.45 | LibertyTrooper | of course, don't everyone say everything at once. I mean.. its just botland it seems. |
| 09:18.09 | *** join/#brlcad clock_ (n=clock@zux221-122-143.adsl.green.ch) | |
| 09:18.39 | LibertyTrooper | funny, I thought the AUP specifically stated No Bots. Perhaps I am wrong :? |
| 09:25.40 | archivist | its irc you need to wait a bit |
| 09:40.00 | LibertyTrooper | back. I'm using a new IRC client and multi tasking over several different computers. Please bear with me. |
| 09:40.43 | archivist | people who know brlcad on OSX are on US time |
| 09:41.10 | LibertyTrooper | I really have to stop being a nightowl I suppose :) |
| 09:42.32 | LibertyTrooper | I probably should find something less complex than BRLCAD... |
| 09:44.36 | LibertyTrooper | Any recommendations? |
| 09:52.06 | LibertyTrooper | It used to be that one couldn't find good CAD/CAM systems on Windows. They had to run on Unix. These days, though, its impossible to find anything reasonable that runs on the largest installed base of Unix around - MacOS :( |
| 09:52.29 | LibertyTrooper | The worst thing is that I'm a recent refugee from Windows... Just as I was once a refugee from *nix to windows |
| 10:04.17 | *** part/#brlcad LibertyTrooper (n=LibertyT@wsip-24-234-123-169.lv.lv.cox.net) | |
| 10:34.20 | brlcad | mm.. impatience |
| 10:36.14 | archivist | very |
| 10:36.57 | archivist | i cant believe "largest installed base of Unix around - MacOS" |
| 10:52.02 | brlcad | i've heard that quoted in many various forms and forums, at least for desktop computing |
| 10:52.27 | brlcad | not hard to buy in terms of largest unix-based vendor, though a lot harder to quantify as the largest installed base |
| 10:54.56 | brlcad | can't exactly readily measure how many use the various linux and bsds quite as easily since they don't equate to sales so directly |
| 10:55.46 | clock_ | brlcad: if you sell a macos does it mean it's installed? |
| 10:56.46 | brlcad | i presume you mean, if apple sells a mac, does it mean mac os is installed? |
| 10:57.03 | archivist | easier to mesure in terms of downloads for each op system |
| 10:57.06 | brlcad | of course not, but I'd venture 99% of macs retain mac os x |
| 10:57.56 | brlcad | the minority that buy a mac and then erase it to install linux is a vast minority in the big scheme of things, so you can generally equate the sales as OS users |
| 10:59.23 | brlcad | archivist: nah, downloads can be quite skewed.. heck I've downloaded 5 different linux variants over the past month alone and only got around to installing two of them |
| 10:59.43 | brlcad | neither of which am I using, was just testing |
| 11:01.09 | archivist | just as likely to be testing on other systems so the ratio of one to another is the clue stick |
| 11:01.39 | brlcad | huh? |
| 11:02.02 | brlcad | it's maybe informative as a bsd vs linux metric, but tells me rather nothing about the OS's that I don't download |
| 11:03.24 | archivist | Im thinking of qty of apps downloaded for operating systems not the op systems themselves |
| 11:03.36 | brlcad | the closest you can get to comparing there is probably by looking at web visitor stats, pick a site that has a fairly minimal bias and compare visitor's OSs or such |
| 11:03.48 | brlcad | ahh, perhaps |
| 11:04.14 | brlcad | though even there, different OS have different trends in how you obtain software |
| 11:04.59 | brlcad | I frequently buy Mac software, I don't generally ever buy linux software -- I rarely download mac software in comparison |
| 11:05.46 | brlcad | finding a piece of software that didn't have a user bias would be even harder than finding a website I'd imagine |
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| 11:06.45 | brlcad | (e.g. i'd suspect there's a lot more linux users that download firefox, even compared to windows downloads, simply due to the user bases and prevalent use) |
| 11:07.26 | brlcad | looking at stats for something like google or maybe cnn (us and international ed.) would be most telling |
| 11:21.49 | archivist | I spend a lot of time in #mysql and a large proportion of questions are from linux/bsd users but mysql state that windows binaries have a larger download qty (probably skewed by distros supplied stuff) |
| 11:41.40 | brlcad | heh, that's biased on so many levels |
| 11:42.20 | archivist | all stats are biased |
| 11:43.09 | brlcad | sure they are, which is why it's important to minimize the bias where possible if you want to derive any sense out of the stats |
| 11:44.12 | archivist | please dont remind be of Open University Statistics |
| 11:44.25 | brlcad | referring to how many people on a relatively obscure communication forum ask questions about a relatively market specific piece of software doesn't really say much at all :) |
| 11:50.14 | brlcad | which is why I mentioned site visitors, if it's installed desktop OS user base we're going after, then one thing almost universal these days is internet browsing .. picking a site that has fairly global appeal/popularity to minimize market/cultural/regional bias, ergo looking at stats for a place like yahoo, cnn, ebay, google, etc |
| 11:50.50 | brlcad | with that, I'd expect you might be able to get the error down to just a couple percentage points |
| 11:57.25 | brlcad | anyhow, we're not likely to get those stats until the big name sites tally up their results for us or provide some sort of interface to data mine |
| 11:58.37 | archivist | hehe that will be the day, thinking about "errors" I gota go to a gear manufacturer to take some gears back this afternoon, they through hardened so I cannot machine the hubs |
| 13:52.11 | ``Erik | *yawn* |
| 14:02.18 | Maloeran | For that random thought which triggered a reconstruction of the side traversal, you'll be forced to have your name in the future paper Erik :) |
| 14:03.56 | ``Erik | heh |
| 14:04.03 | ``Erik | is the reconstruction... beneficial? :D |
| 14:04.36 | Maloeran | Theorically, it could save about 5-10% memory and speed up the traversal a tiny bit |
| 14:04.46 | ``Erik | sweet |
| 14:05.06 | ``Erik | <-- does the "creepy cg diaper baby dance" |
| 14:05.10 | Maloeran | Basically, it will be some weird tree where some following nodes can be fetched at fixed offsets, as in a list |
| 14:06.01 | Maloeran | Hum, more like 4-7% less memory |
| 14:07.01 | ``Erik | oh, um, that's actually a fairly well known approach... first year CS stuff, dude... |
| 14:07.45 | Maloeran | I know, but I need to store sector pointers when we jump out of the node tree there as well |
| 14:10.53 | Maloeran | Originally, I couldn't do that as nodes were being reused by neighbour sectors for connections, but that's not quite compatible with dynamic geometry support and doesn't save much ( the prototype does that ) |
| 14:11.31 | Maloeran | I noticed you were reading about convenience libraries, any news on that? :) |
| 14:12.29 | ``Erik | oh, um, I actually had the library wired into your program |
| 14:12.52 | ``Erik | but gcc does some funny things, apparently it does not like holding the symbol for global variables |
| 14:13.05 | ``Erik | which you use a few of :) (like mmCount would be undefined outside of mm.o) |
| 14:13.26 | Maloeran | Oh, hum. |
| 14:20.42 | Maloeran | Any thought then? Just #ifdef away these global variables for memory tracking? |
| 14:55.41 | ``Erik | well, the globals being in the object are fine... it's accessing them that's tricky... personally write "accessor" functions *shrug* |
| 14:55.49 | ``Erik | but we can always figure something else out *shrug* |
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| 22:03.18 | Maloeran | Justin's url for a laptop battery recommendation scrolled out of the irc buffer by a few lines, can anyone copy that for me?.. |
| 22:05.53 | IriX64 | what brand laptop? |
| 22:07.57 | Maloeran | Acer 3000, 3003wlmi more precisely |
| 22:18.37 | IriX64 | try www.acer.com or www.acer.ca. |
| 22:24.24 | Maloeran | "Microsoft VBScript compilation error '800a03e9' Out of memory /vs/go/acer-aspire-notebook.asp, line 0" Out of memory, I like that :) |
| 22:26.18 | IriX64 | :) |
| 22:33.39 | IriX64 | $ gcc --version |
| 22:33.39 | IriX64 | gcc (GCC) 4.1.1 |
| 22:33.40 | IriX64 | Copyright (C) 2006 Free Software Foundation, Inc. |
| 22:33.40 | IriX64 | This is free software; see the source for copying conditions. There is NO |
| 22:33.40 | IriX64 | warranty; not even for MERCHANTABILITY or FITNESS FOR A PARTICULAR PURPOSE. |
| 22:33.50 | IriX64 | IriX64@hagarsfi-f038a0 ~/brlcad-10.0.0look familiar? ;) |
| 22:36.05 | IriX64 | smokity break. :) |
| 22:57.22 | ``Erik | yes, looks like dumbass in motion. :D |
| 23:15.23 | Twingy | my heat source? |
| 00:11.39 | IriX64 | Twingy: your forge, you use torches? |
| 00:31.00 | IriX64 | ``Erik: you've got that backwards it's ass dumb. ;) |
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| 01:40.59 | Twingy | propane |
| 01:41.06 | Twingy | C3H8 |
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| 02:03.17 | dan_falck | Hi Twingy |
| 02:04.32 | dan_falck | this doesn't do a whole lot yet, but check it out: |
| 02:04.36 | dan_falck | http://home.comcast.net/~mark8437/index.html |
| 02:05.04 | dan_falck | a little bit of a CAM program on top of OpenCASCADE |
| 02:30.36 | Twingy | hello |
| 02:31.56 | dan_falck | Mark Pictor wrote that |
| 02:32.05 | dan_falck | he's also on the EMC list |
| 02:32.17 | Twingy | urf |
| 02:32.22 | Twingy | he didn't tar it up with a folder |
| 02:33.19 | Twingy | stargate, bbl |
| 02:33.31 | dan_falck | ok |
| 02:38.41 | ``Erik | stargate++ |
| 02:44.02 | Twingy | dan_falck, seeing that surface brings make memories |
| 02:44.09 | Twingy | s/make/back |
| 03:42.14 | IriX64 | what file system should i format my jump drive in? |
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| 03:56.28 | ``Erik | cpmfs |
| 03:58.04 | IriX64 | cross pointed multi-functional system ... all right. :) |
| 03:58.45 | IriX64 | cpm file system? |
| 03:59.08 | IriX64 | won't fit in the 8" drive. |
| 04:02.48 | IriX64 | 93 meg bz2 file sheesh. |
| 04:03.47 | IriX64 | thats after a make clean. |
| 04:05.11 | IriX64 | didn't realize it had gotten that big, oh well. |
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| 04:55.40 | ValarQ | morning folks |
| 05:50.59 | ValarQ | :/ |
| 05:58.58 | brlcad | evening too |
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| 08:03.45 | LibertyTrooper | Evening all. |
| 08:12.13 | LibertyTrooper | I guess I'm too late again this evening to find anyone who uses BRL on Mac. |
| 08:35.25 | LibertyTrooper | HELLOOOOOOOO!!!!!! Anyone home? |
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| 16:14.02 | CIA-9 | BRL-CAD: 03lbutler * 10brlcad/doc/html/manuals/mged/mged_cmd_index.html: added documentation for expand_comb_tree |
| 16:15.43 | CIA-9 | BRL-CAD: 03lbutler * 10brlcad/src/tclscripts/mged/ (expand_comb_tree.tcl Makefile.am): expand_comb_tree tcl script for expanding combination records to minimal tree nodes |
| 16:18.40 | CIA-9 | BRL-CAD: 03lbutler * 10brlcad/doc/html/manuals/mged/mged_cmd_index.html: fixed typos |
| 16:22.12 | CIA-9 | BRL-CAD: 03lbutler * 10brlcad/doc/html/manuals/mged/mged_cmd_index.html: |
| 16:22.12 | CIA-9 | BRL-CAD: making the example code consistent. Region id's indicated I didn't type the |
| 16:22.13 | CIA-9 | BRL-CAD: example in all at once. Sigh. Now it looks like I did. |
| 16:26.28 | CIA-9 | BRL-CAD: 03lbutler * 10brlcad/sh/facetall.sh: |
| 16:26.28 | CIA-9 | BRL-CAD: Driver script for facetizing all regions in a database. Since mged may |
| 16:26.28 | CIA-9 | BRL-CAD: abort during some failed facetization attempts, we need a shell script so that we can re-start it and continue facetizing. |
| 16:28.30 | CIA-9 | BRL-CAD: 03lbutler * 10brlcad/src/tclscripts/mged/facetize_all_regions.tcl: Routines to facetize all regions in a database. For use in conjunction with the "facetall.sh" script |
| 16:29.12 | CIA-9 | BRL-CAD: 03lbutler * 10brlcad/sh/Makefile.am: added facetall.sh to installed scripts |
| 16:32.39 | CIA-9 | BRL-CAD: 03lbutler * 10brlcad/NEWS: added expand_comb_tree and facetall additions |
| 16:34.18 | CIA-9 | BRL-CAD: 03lbutler * 10brlcad/src/libbu/cmd.c: To help Doxygen, distinguish the libbu/cmd.c from the cmd.c in other directories |
| 16:36.15 | CIA-9 | BRL-CAD: 03lbutler * 10brlcad/misc/ (Doxyfile doxygen_structure): |
| 16:36.15 | CIA-9 | BRL-CAD: Added librt to the directories processed. Reformatted doxygen_source to be |
| 16:36.15 | CIA-9 | BRL-CAD: a little more readable. Each directory has a single comment that builds all |
| 16:36.15 | CIA-9 | BRL-CAD: the sub-groups for the directory. |
| 16:37.16 | CIA-9 | BRL-CAD: 03lbutler * 10brlcad/NEWS: Noted Doxygen updates |
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| 17:02.38 | jan_ | hello folks |
| 17:11.33 | *** part/#brlcad jan_ (n=jan@p54825FF6.dip.t-dialin.net) | |
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| 23:21.55 | IriX64 | gcc 4.1.1 on cygwin , can you beleive it? |
| 23:22.11 | IriX64 | believe too. |
| 23:23.04 | IriX64 | compiles brlcad successfully. |
| 02:13.39 | brlcad | eep, lotsa privs |
| 02:25.11 | Twingy | meep meep |
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| 03:17.52 | dan_falck | meep |
| 03:18.12 | Twingy | 'lo |
| 03:18.22 | dan_falck | hi |
| 03:18.32 | dan_falck | how's it going |
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| 03:18.46 | Twingy | I need to write the manual gui for gcam |
| 03:18.47 | dan_falck | oh oh |
| 03:19.11 | dan_falck | do you want some help with it? |
| 03:19.12 | Twingy | I'll use a standard treeview and expat I think |
| 03:19.19 | Twingy | you know gtk? |
| 03:19.27 | Twingy | or expat? |
| 03:19.33 | dan_falck | not gtk, but the manual for using it |
| 03:19.43 | Twingy | you do any coding? |
| 03:19.48 | dan_falck | python |
| 03:19.55 | Twingy | m'kay |
| 03:20.11 | dan_falck | I design tooling, not a programmer |
| 03:20.17 | Twingy | ah, k |
| 03:20.27 | Twingy | well, gcam is functional right now |
| 03:20.32 | dan_falck | cool |
| 03:20.34 | Twingy | you got time to give it a spin? |
| 03:20.37 | dan_falck | yes |
| 03:21.03 | Twingy | um, comtrash disabled my inbounds, should be on comcast worksplace next week, but how do you want tarball |
| 03:21.20 | dan_falck | tgz is fine |
| 03:21.24 | Twingy | how |
| 03:21.28 | Twingy | dcc? |
| 03:21.45 | dan_falck | dcc doesn't seem to work with this system |
| 03:21.56 | dan_falck | how about the web site? |
| 03:22.32 | Twingy | again |
| 03:22.38 | Twingy | comcast disabled my inbounds |
| 03:22.54 | Twingy | I am switching to comcast workplace with a static ip, but not until next week |
| 03:22.58 | Twingy | ...will that occur |
| 03:23.07 | dan_falck | ok, sorry |
| 03:23.14 | dan_falck | how big is it? |
| 03:23.23 | Twingy | what OS are you running |
| 03:23.47 | dan_falck | ubuntu, mac os x, redhat 7, debian |
| 03:23.53 | Twingy | k, works on all those |
| 03:23.58 | dan_falck | lot's of machines out in my garage |
| 03:24.09 | Twingy | windows/freedos/freebsd in the garage |
| 03:24.56 | Twingy | how about email |
| 03:25.07 | dan_falck | let's try it |
| 03:25.11 | dan_falck | dfalck@verizon.net |
| 03:26.39 | Twingy | sent |
| 03:27.18 | dan_falck | ok got it. Thanks |
| 03:27.27 | Twingy | scratch the src/gcam, make that ./gcam |
| 03:28.02 | Twingy | let me know after you got it running |
| 03:28.28 | dan_falck | Ok. I'm going to transfer it to a ubuntu box in my garage. I will let you know how things work out tomorrow. |
| 03:28.31 | dan_falck | thanks |
| 03:29.40 | Twingy | k |
| 03:29.42 | Twingy | here's how things work |
| 03:30.14 | Twingy | create a new project, insert a sketch, insert lines and arcs, insert lines and arcs into the extrusion to control depth |
| 03:30.39 | Twingy | export g-code to drive mill, double check the feed though |
| 03:33.17 | dan_falck | ok |
| 03:34.03 | Twingy | there are a handful of minor things that still need work |
| 03:34.23 | Twingy | so whenever I get around to finishing those I can release |
| 03:34.53 | dan_falck | I've been testing out lots of little bits of OS cam |
| 03:35.01 | dan_falck | small applications |
| 03:35.17 | dan_falck | that OpenCascade CAM thing was the latest |
| 03:35.37 | Twingy | I wasn't thrilled by OpenCascade CAM |
| 03:35.43 | dan_falck | I've been looking at aptos, which is command line driven but very powerful |
| 03:35.53 | Twingy | it's using alot of non-standard stuff to create something in a hurry |
| 03:36.28 | Twingy | I think you'll find the foundation of gcam is very solid, more than meets the gui |
| 03:37.27 | dan_falck | is it possible to extract info about lines and circles from it to pipe into another application? (not having looked at it yet) |
| 03:37.38 | dan_falck | lines and arcs I mean |
| 03:37.44 | Twingy | from the binary file, sure |
| 03:37.55 | Twingy | I haven't published the binary file spec yet |
| 03:38.19 | Twingy | it's highly extensible and backwards compatible oriented |
| 03:38.44 | Twingy | much thought went into it |
| 03:39.41 | Twingy | now I'm off, ttyl |
| 03:39.59 | dan_falck | let me compile this on the garage machine. I'll pop up under another irc name from there |
| 03:40.02 | dan_falck | thanks |
| 03:40.18 | dan_falck | bye |
| 03:40.27 | Twingy | k |
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| 19:53.46 | CIA-9 | BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/sh/header.sh: let header.sh be used with other projects and copyright holders too |
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| 03:53.54 | justin_ | I have lay-in lugs, w00t |
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| 12:51.13 | Maloeran | Woah. I mentionned my interest to explore raytracing hardware to Mark from Survice, and now they ask if they can provide anything I could use, even if it's as a hobby |
| 12:53.15 | Maloeran | Prasad stopped idling on IRC long ago, hasn't he? |
| 12:55.02 | archivist | !seen Pra5ad |
| 12:55.09 | Maloeran | Erik seemed to have some vague and diffuse interest to tackle raytracing hardware. What about you, Sean? |
| 13:23.49 | Maloeran | Or anyone else for that matter ;). I sure wouldn't mind exchanging a few thoughts with Prasad if he were to drop by again |
| 13:27.30 | CIA-9 | BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/libbu/Makefile.am: |
| 13:27.30 | CIA-9 | BRL-CAD: make the dependency on libbu.la more explicit, otherwise some versions of |
| 13:27.30 | CIA-9 | BRL-CAD: automake/libtool seem to not detect the dependency causing them to attempt a |
| 13:27.30 | CIA-9 | BRL-CAD: linking of htester before libbu has finished building. thx to dan o'neill for |
| 13:27.31 | CIA-9 | BRL-CAD: reporting this issue (sf bug report 1563466, libbu.la missing) |
| 13:31.37 | brlcad | ~seen pra5ad |
| 13:31.51 | ibot | pra5ad <n=prasad@pool-151-196-137-196.balt.east.verizon.net> was last seen on IRC in channel #brlcad, 32d 13h 28m 54s ago, saying: 'pickle'. |
| 13:32.03 | brlcad | heh, pickle |
| 13:32.14 | brlcad | that about sums up prasad |
| 13:33.19 | brlcad | Maloeran: mildly.. it really depends on the hardware and cost |
| 13:35.13 | Maloeran | FPGAs first, followed by ASIC, then the world? :) VHDL/Verilog code are fairly "portable" for hardware design |
| 13:35.36 | brlcad | in general if it's just an academic persuit with little chance of ever spreading through the community, then my interest dwindles.. even if the hardware and research would be cool .. :) |
| 13:35.56 | brlcad | fpgas in general would be nice to play with just because they have broad applications |
| 13:36.07 | Maloeran | I'm unsure about that, it must be possible to get some backing in order to pursue this beyond a toy |
| 13:36.28 | Maloeran | If we solve dynamic geometry, raytracing hardware should be very appealing |
| 13:37.28 | brlcad | but something tells me that the prices on them aren't going to drop anytime soon, and even if "only" costs a few grand a card (which is currently unrealistic) and gives a nice 10x boost.. and I could have gotten that same boost or better with other chips.. |
| 13:38.04 | Maloeran | FPGAs are just meant for quick testing and experiments I think. To get serious, we need ASIC |
| 13:38.16 | brlcad | i'm not saying I doubt that it couldn't get backing beyond a toy, that doesn't make it something that will "spread through the community" though |
| 13:38.29 | brlcad | getting the backing is frankly easy |
| 13:39.05 | Maloeran | An ASIC design can be fully developed before any real investment, and then we could look for backing |
| 13:39.22 | brlcad | i'm just questioning the merit of the approach, the overall long term utility is quite dubious |
| 13:40.01 | Maloeran | I suppose the long term utility would be to make the first steps towards the disappearance of rasterization hardware |
| 13:40.48 | brlcad | and I don't think that will happen anytime soon |
| 13:40.58 | brlcad | they're driving the market by a couple orders of magnitude |
| 13:41.10 | brlcad | more likely is that video cards will get more and more generic |
| 13:41.22 | brlcad | maybe a union of the "physics card" capabilities |
| 13:41.53 | brlcad | and more programmable in general, maybe eventually to the point of an fpga or some limited subset |
| 13:42.19 | Maloeran | Possibly. Commercial raytracing ASIC boards are already avaiable out there, so there must be a market of some sort |
| 13:42.36 | brlcad | or at least someone thinks there's a market :) |
| 13:42.46 | Maloeran | The more programmable it is, the less optimized it is for raytracing specifically |
| 13:42.53 | archivist | build into your stuff into tft display then |
| 13:43.13 | brlcad | yep, which is why fpga's are mostly academically interesting until you can get that onto an asic |
| 13:43.26 | brlcad | since you won't get the best performance |
| 13:43.38 | Maloeran | Clearly so, but it's handy as a development toy |
| 13:44.40 | brlcad | my main "concern" though is say that the technical implementation was all taken care of and we could fab the "best" ray-tracing specific asic today |
| 13:45.12 | brlcad | someone ponies up 500k in funds to have a bunch of cards made, a massive render farm of sorts |
| 13:46.06 | Maloeran | How is that a concern? |
| 13:46.07 | brlcad | how does that performance compare to 500k invested into a supercomputer/cluster instead? |
| 13:46.14 | Maloeran | Ah right |
| 13:46.18 | brlcad | i don't think the numbers are there myself |
| 13:46.30 | brlcad | and the supercomputer/cluster has vastly more applicable use |
| 13:46.40 | brlcad | s/applicable/general/ |
| 13:47.01 | brlcad | i mean it's cool, very cool |
| 13:47.08 | brlcad | but .... :) |
| 13:47.14 | Maloeran | That's the main issue, definitely. The way I see it, and I could be mistaken, raytracing has not become meanstream because of lack of dynamic geometry support |
| 13:47.31 | Maloeran | With superior algorithms, we can correct that, among other things |
| 13:47.59 | brlcad | and in two years after you dump that 500k in, the cards may depreciate something like 80% and the cpus 50% |
| 13:48.40 | Maloeran | If the design was good, it should be equally possible to build new fancy ASICs with the technology of the moment |
| 13:49.17 | brlcad | while i don't think ray-tracing has become mainstream because 90% of the community doesn't need or care about the capabilities provided -- that will slowly change as more and more realism is added, but even that is a few years off |
| 13:49.30 | brlcad | and in general you can always fake it much faster than you can simulate it |
| 13:49.48 | Maloeran | Quite true. I don't think we would get to the point where we are ready to put ASIC boards together within 2 years anyhow |
| 13:50.08 | brlcad | i mean every single effect and benefit that ray-tracing provides is generally doable on the video card with maybe the exception of subsurface scattering |
| 13:50.10 | Maloeran | So this is a long-term project and/or hobby |
| 13:50.41 | brlcad | and even subsurface is "close enough" with the right textures |
| 13:51.03 | Maloeran | Realistic lighting, as a whole, is not possible by rasterization, but there are other advantages. Ray-tracing doesn't really care about the count of polygons |
| 13:51.09 | Maloeran | You can even have curved surfaces |
| 13:51.13 | brlcad | the benefit will come when all of the "hacks" can be thrown away for the considerably more simple "ray-trace" approach when the performance just isn't a concern |
| 13:52.32 | brlcad | see, you say realistic lighting isn't possible, yet there are a slew of games that hack away "good enough" at reasonably good lighting, good enough for their users regardless if there's no foundation on realism |
| 13:52.56 | brlcad | and they already have curved surfaces (end result, not underlying implementation) from their perspective |
| 13:53.35 | brlcad | not caring about the polygon count would be a benefit |
| 13:54.08 | Maloeran | Quite right. Raytracing still have some serious advantages regarding the simplicity and flexibility of the rendering, and performance being mostly independnat on the complexity of the scene |
| 13:54.44 | Maloeran | It's horrible how much you have to hack things together to do something "realistic" with rasterization rendering, I played with OpenGL for a while... |
| 13:55.17 | brlcad | what I could see happen would be a dedicated ray-trace pipeline getting tacked onto video cards |
| 13:55.39 | brlcad | but that'd only occur IFF the ray-trace community could standardize |
| 13:56.08 | Maloeran | That would only be possible with serious hardware support for space partitioning and so on, I don't think it's so likely to appear on GPUs |
| 13:56.22 | brlcad | talked about that sort of an idea several times with some guys at ati a few years ago and the idea wasn't unheard of |
| 13:58.01 | Maloeran | Well then... To summarize, if we were to seriously aim for a high-performance ASIC implementation, would you have any interest? |
| 13:58.08 | brlcad | heh |
| 13:59.51 | brlcad | possibly, I suppose it really depends on a lot of (other) issues |
| 14:00.40 | brlcad | i've got a new modeling system to focus on, geometry server, run-time engine, solid model analyses, ... |
| 14:01.42 | Maloeran | Understood, and it can wait a few months... I wish we could put together a little team of motivated individuals on this problem, I am personally very interested as you surely noticed |
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| 18:08.42 | *** join/#brlcad IriX64 (n=Who@bas3-sudbury98-1168052522.dsl.bell.ca) | |
| 18:09.30 | IriX64 | <PROTECTED> |
| 18:09.44 | IriX64 | whats that all about? |
| 18:10.58 | IriX64 | happened in overlap tool obj1-obj2. |
| 18:11.16 | IriX64 | havoc database. |
| 18:11.27 | IriX64 | reproducible. |
| 18:12.09 | IriX64 | and don't tell *me to fix it, you own it :) |
| 18:30.14 | IriX64 | castle has no overlaps. |
| 18:32.04 | IriX64 | neither does cornell :) |
| 18:33.14 | Maloeran | The 10k polygons castle model? Ah, I remember Twingy and I using that in our early ray-tracing experiments :) |
| 18:34.01 | Maloeran | In the days where we would get 200k rays per second instead of 10 millions |
| 18:36.13 | IriX64 | says its the logo castle. |
| 18:36.44 | IriX64 | btw you're at a conference, are you playing hookey? :) |
| 18:37.03 | ValarQ | IriX64: hey, stop spamming me |
| 18:37.12 | IriX64 | haha all right. |
| 18:37.41 | IriX64 | was looking for something you might like because i so enjoyed your vortex. |
| 18:37.56 | ValarQ | you're filling my 0.5TB raid in my mailserver :P |
| 18:38.09 | Maloeran | Ah, we came back from that conference last Friday |
| 18:38.10 | IriX64 | hehe ill tar them up then ;) |
| 18:38.19 | IriX64 | ah i c. |
| 18:39.18 | IriX64 | half a terrabyte? whooo hooo. |
| 18:39.46 | IriX64 | 500gigs later of Irix^4's screen shots and what do we have :) |
| 18:39.58 | IriX64 | s/6/^ |
| 18:41.25 | IriX64 | BTW that error is real. |
| 18:42.59 | IriX64 | hahaha Gordon Lightfoot, summerside of life albumn "and the kind of gig I like the most is a rubbing the wrong girl right" |
| 18:43.45 | IriX64 | :) |
| 18:44.34 | IriX64 | Mouth Wash only $1.50 per bottle ;) |
| 18:46.14 | IriX64 | and no i'm not implying you have halsitosis. :) |
| 18:48.49 | IriX64 | star.g->shooting rays at 100.0mm this may take some time. doh tell me about it. |
| 18:50.25 | IriX64 | if you're going to be a solid modelling suite *be a solid modelling suite ;) |
| 18:51.54 | IriX64 | ray spacing .1m sigh.... look before you shoot :) |
| 18:53.58 | IriX64 | cpu load 100% however kernel time is not even on the scale it's so low. |
| 19:07.13 | IriX64 | scuse me, leaky horse, brb. :) |
| 19:22.22 | IriX64 | g_lint -> 98% sheesh. |
| 19:23.07 | IriX64 | cpu that is not progress.... blargh. |
| 19:25.23 | IriX64 | but as they say, I mourn, I grieve, I move on. |
| 19:25.57 | IriX64 | he was such hot shit toilet paper burned when it touched him :) |
| 19:55.08 | Maloeran | What do you use BRL-CAD for, IriX64? Just curious |
| 20:12.13 | IriX64 | testing my x-compiler. |
| 20:12.52 | IriX64 | how do you test any compiler?throw lots and lots of code at her, and BrlCad qualifies as lots and lots of code :) |
| 20:17.46 | IriX64 | thats why i only report bugs I come across, too busy fixing my own ;) |
| 20:18.38 | Maloeran | Interesting, what compiler are you working on? |
| 20:38.22 | IriX64 | working on what started life as gcc 3.3.3 but has eveolved to be cassie.exe |
| 20:38.32 | IriX64 | evolved too. |
| 20:39.13 | IriX64 | checking for x86-unix-linux-gnu-gcc...cassie.exe love it. |
| 20:40.13 | IriX64 | left a copy called gcc.exe for configure scripts that don't honor CC. |
| 20:42.33 | IriX64 | can you believe this, overlap tool is still shooting rays, what'd you guys do? |
| 20:43.28 | IriX64 | this gui is the shits, i should abandon it. :) |
| 20:44.04 | IriX64 | you see i need to work on something between 5 hour compile runs. :) |
| 20:44.10 | Maloeran | Whine about the current raytracer, you'll like the next one ;) |
| 20:44.25 | IriX64 | heh thanks for the invitation :) |
| 20:44.49 | Maloeran | It might be the fastest in the world, apparently |
| 20:45.14 | IriX64 | define fast, all computers wait at the same speed. :) |
| 20:45.36 | IriX64 | 18.2 ;) |
| 20:48.29 | IriX64 | altho, you know they could use 36.4 or 44.4 and scale for backwards compatibility *shrug. |
| 20:57.40 | Maloeran | Anything special about your branch of gcc? Better optimisation? |
| 20:58.52 | IriX64 | arch mcpu things of that nature, and yes optimization of 3 is there. |
| 21:02.27 | IriX64 | $ gcc --version |
| 21:02.27 | IriX64 | gcc (GCC) 4.1.1 |
| 21:02.27 | IriX64 | Copyright (C) 2006 Free Software Foundation, Inc. |
| 21:02.27 | IriX64 | This is free software; see the source for copying conditions. There is NO |
| 21:02.27 | IriX64 | warranty; not even for MERCHANTABILITY or FITNESS FOR A PARTICULAR PURPOSE. |
| 21:02.28 | IriX64 | IriX64@hagarsfi-f038a0 ~ |
| 21:02.30 | IriX64 | $ gcc -dumpmachine |
| 21:02.32 | IriX64 | i686-pc-cygwin |
| 21:02.34 | IriX64 | if it helps :) |
| 21:07.58 | *** join/#brlcad ibot (i=ibot@pdpc/supporter/active/TimRiker/bot/apt) | |
| 21:07.58 | *** topic/#brlcad is http://brlcad.org/ || BRL-CAD is an open source solid modeling software suite || Developers needed! Read the HACKING file for details on getting involved | |
| 21:14.44 | IriX64 | lf i post my ld --help screen, you'll.... :) |
| 21:24.25 | IriX64 | www.pastebin.com Mario D'Ulisse |
| 21:27.13 | IriX64 | you know overlap tool needs some work scuse me. |
| 22:28.41 | *** mode/#brlcad [+b %IriX64!*@*.dsl.bell.ca] by brlcad | |
| 22:29.23 | brlcad | you'd think he'd learn |
| 22:33.12 | dtidrow_work | lol |
| 22:46.37 | ``Erik | heh |
| 23:37.47 | Twingy | took you long enough |
| 23:42.11 | brlcad | it's not a full ban, just stole his voice |
| 23:46.27 | dtidrow_work | heh |
| 00:11.19 | CIA-9 | BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/include/ (bn.h bu.h): have the headers include the headers they respectively require |
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| 01:34.29 | Maloeran | http://www.rayforce.net/galleon.png - The killer of ray-tracing acceleration structures |
| 01:34.47 | Maloeran | With all these wires and ropes in the way :) |
| 01:36.22 | Maloeran | That will look better with a touch of texturing... that and global illumination |
| 01:39.23 | Maloeran | I challenge these kd-tree people to get good performance in this scene, eheh |
| 01:53.46 | *** join/#brlcad dan_falck (n=danfalck@pool-71-111-76-8.ptldor.dsl-w.verizon.net) | |
| 01:53.58 | brlcad | nice model |
| 01:54.26 | brlcad | where'd it come from? |
| 01:56.23 | Maloeran | A friend of mine made it, as I mentionned to Lee. Technically, I'm paying the guy |
| 01:56.51 | Maloeran | It's much more impressive with texturing and so on |
| 01:57.21 | Maloeran | http://mcarp.earthstorm.com/reel/rotter-lowe/index.php?showimage=rotter-lowe-070.jpg&screenwidth=1600 |
| 01:59.23 | brlcad | unlimited rights? willing to share? :) |
| 01:59.28 | brlcad | would make for a great test model |
| 01:59.52 | Maloeran | Exactly my idea, it's the perfect model for raytracing benchmarks |
| 01:59.59 | brlcad | is it a full on poly model only? |
| 02:00.01 | Maloeran | It will be available for non-commercial use soon |
| 02:00.32 | Maloeran | "Full on poly model only"? It's made of triangles exclusively, and all volumes are closed to run vulnerability analysis or whatever else you guys do |
| 02:02.25 | brlcad | yeah, a triangle/poly-only model |
| 02:02.38 | Maloeran | *nods* Right |
| 02:02.40 | brlcad | instead of say a patches model of some sort |
| 02:02.54 | brlcad | solid would have been my next question, cool |
| 02:03.38 | Maloeran | And it was made from real blueprints, so this should be nice. The author really is impressing me, he's a hobbist |
| 02:03.54 | Maloeran | Well, besides the pitiful amounts I pay him to tweak his models for my needs |
| 02:04.26 | brlcad | :) |
| 02:05.37 | brlcad | is he looking for work? I'd pay for some models myself |
| 02:06.03 | Maloeran | Oh, he definitely is, he has no contacts to get in the industry |
| 02:06.24 | Maloeran | Hence why I'm trying to promote his work a bit, because he's getting really good |
| 02:07.44 | Maloeran | If you are interested, his nickname is mcarp on efnet, otherwise mcarp@mcarp.org |
| 02:12.52 | brlcad | hangs out anywhere in particular? |
| 02:13.16 | Maloeran | On efnet's #asm, among the crazy assembly programmers like myself |
| 02:13.53 | brlcad | aiight |
| 02:15.07 | brlcad | well I am definitely interested, there's been a couple models I've wanted for several years |
| 02:16.01 | brlcad | though I would like to have it constructed of primitives and CSG so I can do comparisons |
| 02:16.33 | brlcad | either implicits or breps/nurbs, but CSG-driven design to match the original |
| 02:16.43 | Maloeran | Excellent news. I don't know if he's used to anything else than triangles as final product, but feel free to ask him |
| 02:17.00 | Maloeran | He certainly is used to nurbs, I wouldn't know about CSG though |
| 02:17.02 | brlcad | he's a student? |
| 02:17.15 | Maloeran | He's a ~40 years old tech support guy |
| 02:17.20 | brlcad | ah, cool |
| 02:18.41 | Maloeran | Feel free to share how it goes if you chat with him, I have been willing to get some attention on his skills for some time |
| 03:07.23 | Maloeran | Erik, the autoconf/automake stuff breaks when trying to compile a 32 bits executable on amd64. It appends a ton of -L paths but these are for 64 bits libraries |
| 03:08.38 | Maloeran | Ah, it forces -L/usr/lib/libSDL.so instead of letting ld find it by itself |
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| 15:36.25 | mcarp | does anyone have an estimate of how long it took to create the tank in this screen shot: |
| 15:36.26 | mcarp | http://sourceforge.net/dbimage.php?id=36174 |
| 15:37.17 | clock_ | mcarp: you mean how long it took to develop Stryker ICV? Or how long the guys in factory assemble it together? Or how long it took to make the model? Or how long it renders? |
| 15:37.31 | Maloeran | Make the model surely |
| 15:37.48 | mcarp | how long did it take to make the model from primitives in brl-cad |
| 15:38.35 | mcarp | approx man hours |
| 15:39.28 | clock_ | mcarp: I'm sure this is a classified information, the information that the information is classified is classified too, and by just thinking about it you are automatically becoming a terrorist and will be dispatched to Syria upon your next visit to an airport :) |
| 15:39.36 | Maloeran | There's a possibility it might have been provided by the company producing the vehicule. It was also rendered with ADRT which only deals with triangles, so perhaps it wasn't made of BRL-CAD CSG primitives |
| 15:39.52 | mcarp | cute |
| 15:40.28 | Maloeran | Are you on the brl-cad team or an user of the software, clock_? |
| 15:40.43 | clock_ | Maloeran: user |
| 15:41.23 | mcarp | i fail to understand how keeping the number of man hours to build that model secret has any relevence to anything in reality |
| 15:41.37 | Maloeran | Right. mcarp : brlcad or ``Erik are likely to know more |
| 15:41.58 | clock_ | mcarp: the whole idea o classified information doesn |
| 15:42.04 | clock_ | t have any relevance to reality either |
| 15:42.18 | clock_ | and also the one with terrorism ;-) |
| 15:42.23 | mcarp | incorrect. classified information protects us national security sir |
| 15:43.05 | clock_ | Much more people die on highways than from terrorism... |
| 15:43.16 | mcarp | point? |
| 15:43.36 | clock_ | it's just a masquerade |
| 15:43.57 | clock_ | Basically "we want power, but we have to hook it up on something to make it look plausible" |
| 15:44.25 | mcarp | that is irrelevent to my question of required man hours for a model of this complexity |
| 15:44.59 | clock_ | mcarp: I don't know it and I just wanted to push my irrelevant opinion :) |
| 15:58.11 | brlcad | mcarp: it's a hybrid model, put together in various systems and involves lots of people |
| 15:59.02 | brlcad | it's a mix of csg and poly, converted to full poly for that particular rendering for adrt |
| 15:59.39 | clock_ | brlcad: adrt is part of brlcad? |
| 15:59.56 | brlcad | it's shipped as part of brl-cad, yes |
| 16:00.16 | clock_ | brlcad: is rt for CSG and adrt for polygons? |
| 16:00.28 | brlcad | pretty self-contained codebase though, it could just as easily be it's own project (and is/was) |
| 16:01.34 | brlcad | clock_: pretty much, though it's more like adrt for triangles and rt for anything (csg, poly, brep, etc) |
| 16:01.48 | brlcad | adrt gets its performance by specializing on processing triangles quickly |
| 16:01.53 | clock_ | brlcad: is adrt faster or what is the advantage? And what does the ad mean? |
| 16:02.15 | brlcad | advanced distributed ray tracer |
| 16:02.32 | brlcad | adrt is faster processing triangles than rt is |
| 16:03.30 | brlcad | rt supports much more of a variety of geometry, lighting models, run-time options, cross-platform support, etc |
| 16:05.18 | mcarp | well as far as man hours on that model are we talking about weeks months what |
| 16:06.03 | brlcad | mcarp: the stryker model is also part of a much larger effort that involves several organizations, engineering teams, analysis teams all with different focus points and is a constantly changing model as new armor is tested, different systems are tried, etc |
| 16:07.02 | mcarp | im trying to get an idea what kind of workflow time wise the average modelers are getting in this |
| 16:07.32 | brlcad | as far as man hours, if you were to try to model what's already there and had all the design specifications (which isn't reasonably feasible), we'd be talking several weeks, maybe a couple months |
| 16:07.35 | clock_ | brlcad: how is it from moral point of view if someone doesn't want to contribute to arms race, but wants to work on GPL project? Is working on BRL-CAD moral or immoral then? |
| 16:07.58 | brlcad | and that estimate is using BRL-CAD or Unigraphics or Pro/E or Solidworks |
| 16:08.38 | brlcad | as it is, the model actually involves what's probably more like several man-years of effort as, again, it's a constantly changing model |
| 16:09.00 | brlcad | and brl-cad only touches one small aspect of it, the vulnerability/lethality analysis side |
| 16:09.03 | mcarp | are there any non-classified examples of high detail available |
| 16:09.25 | brlcad | mcarp: not of any of the good models |
| 16:09.30 | clock_ | brlcad: I did lethality analysis on Ronja, but the resulting lethality is very low :) |
| 16:10.12 | mcarp | as an independent contractor i have to get a grasp on some method of fee calculation |
| 16:10.19 | brlcad | i've been trying to get a simplified version of a particular russian vehicle released as open source for several years without success (a very well known model that you could probably go buy on the market if you really wanted) |
| 16:10.29 | mcarp | which is directly perportional to likely time spent on complex geometry |
| 16:11.26 | brlcad | mcarp: understood, it's a hard problem to estimate time on an unknown task |
| 16:11.44 | mcarp | havoc.g for instance crashes brlcad on raytrace so i cant get a good idea of the final results. castle.g will ratrace |
| 16:11.49 | mcarp | tank-car.g crashes |
| 16:11.58 | brlcad | clock_: i don't personally see contributing to brl-cad as contributing to an arms race |
| 16:12.13 | clock_ | brlcad: because anyone can use brl-cad for any purpose, right? |
| 16:12.14 | mcarp | is there anything about "draw *" that could contribute to a crash of ratrace attempts |
| 16:12.17 | brlcad | havoc.g crashes? .. that shouldnt' happen |
| 16:12.36 | brlcad | eek |
| 16:12.36 | clock_ | brlcad: and if the army pays some money for development, it will become weaker by the money removed, and arms race is actually slowed down :) |
| 16:12.43 | brlcad | yeah.. "draw *" is .. bad :) |
| 16:13.06 | brlcad | gets back to all of the expert knowledge that you have to know for basic operation ;) |
| 16:13.16 | mcarp | sure of course |
| 16:13.27 | brlcad | * expands to every object at every level of the model hierarchy |
| 16:13.31 | mcarp | what is the recommended level of drawing to get a view of the final results |
| 16:13.33 | clock_ | brlcad: we implemented a segfault recovery into Links - maybe you could borrow the code |
| 16:13.33 | brlcad | which is certainly not what you wanted |
| 16:13.51 | mcarp | right of course |
| 16:13.53 | clock_ | brlcad: we use it for the final demonstration as university project - to make sure it doesn't segfault in front of the comission :D |
| 16:13.53 | brlcad | start with "tops" to get a list of the top level objects, and then "draw some_object" |
| 16:14.15 | mcarp | isnt there a draw everything thats going to be looked at type command? |
| 16:14.47 | clock_ | brlcad: then the debugging was like "PerM, you should really do something with your javascript interpreter, my browser got already 7 segfaults..." |
| 16:15.16 | brlcad | no, brl-cad geometry files often contain multiple models, not just one like you often find in other modeling systems .. there is no "default" object to display in several instances |
| 16:15.39 | brlcad | we try to only have one in the public test databases, to minimize confusion, but that's not the common practice |
| 16:15.48 | brlcad | for havoc.g, the primary object is "havoc" |
| 16:16.19 | brlcad | clock_: what license is links? |
| 16:16.31 | *** join/#brlcad danfalck (n=dan@pool-71-111-76-8.ptldor.dsl-w.verizon.net) | |
| 16:16.47 | Maloeran | Ah, I wish I had access to reasonably complex models myself ;), though I'm really fond of mcarp's superb frigate |
| 16:17.22 | Maloeran | I finally have a model with which I can work on collection of multiple intersection points per ray, segment construction for traversal of materials |
| 16:17.55 | brlcad | clock_: i also don't get the "it will become weaker by the money removed", you mean the army? that's hardly the case |
| 16:18.21 | mcarp | is there a method of discovery for what is the primary object |
| 16:18.22 | brlcad | governments are not corporations, don't act like them and certainly don't involve finances like them |
| 16:18.32 | brlcad | mcarp: yes, tops |
| 16:19.02 | mcarp | ah, sorry i misunderstood that |
| 16:19.02 | mcarp | ty |
| 16:19.02 | clock_ | brlcad: GPL |
| 16:19.02 | brlcad | it's a hierarchy (a directed acyclic graph), so there are only a few trees |
| 16:19.14 | brlcad | clock_: ah, then no use to me :) |
| 16:19.24 | clock_ | brlcad: why? BRL-CAD is BSD? |
| 16:19.31 | brlcad | need to remain lgpl/bsd clean |
| 16:19.43 | clock_ | brlcad: we could give you an exception |
| 16:19.56 | brlcad | brl-cad is a mix, different portions under different licenses |
| 16:20.04 | clock_ | brlcad: we already made exception for OpenSSL |
| 16:20.43 | brlcad | all of the GPL code is going to be converted to LGPL here shortly due to an issue with integrating the GPL portions |
| 16:21.12 | clock_ | GPL that's like a woman - issues, issues, issues... |
| 16:21.30 | mcarp | thats certainly a much improved display (havoc) as compared to castle.g or truck.g |
| 16:21.53 | mcarp | that being the only way to see the geometry final results is a big hit to workflow tho |
| 16:22.07 | brlcad | havoc is a fairly small model, but probably the most complex CSG example openly available |
| 16:22.35 | brlcad | rt -F/dev/ogll (assuming you're on Windows) will render into a window |
| 16:22.36 | clock_ | mcarp: if you want some example small models, http://ronja.twibright.com/3d |
| 16:22.43 | mcarp | i'm only seeing orthagonal view modes are there not full perspective views? |
| 16:23.19 | clock_ | mcarp: if you subject me to hypnosis I'll be maybe even recall how much manhours it was |
| 16:23.49 | brlcad | mcarp: hit "3", is that what you mean? otherwise, go to Misc->Perspective for a default high-degree perspective |
| 16:24.01 | mcarp | do you guys make bolts with threads or are all bolts non-threaded? |
| 16:24.04 | brlcad | using the shift-grips key bindings, you can spin/pan/zoom the view |
| 16:24.13 | brlcad | mcarp: depends entirely on the model |
| 16:25.37 | mcarp | yes ive had no problems using shift grips |
| 16:25.59 | mcarp | '3' appears to show an orthagonal view with no diminishing point |
| 16:26.02 | brlcad | for a vulnerability/lethality analysis, threads are generally not of interest on bolts |
| 16:26.21 | brlcad | mcarp: okay, just making sure you really meant perspective ;) |
| 16:26.31 | mcarp | yes i REALLY meant perspective |
| 16:26.35 | brlcad | you're looking for misc->perspective :) |
| 16:27.04 | mcarp | ah, better |
| 16:27.15 | mcarp | is this display ogl accellerated? |
| 16:27.20 | clock_ | mcarp: I do without threads because I don't know how to do with threads |
| 16:28.12 | brlcad | mcarp: depends which platform -- in general it usually is compiled with opengl support, though it's not really going to "accellerate" a wireframe view |
| 16:28.42 | brlcad | mged supports various "display managers", one of them is an opengl view |
| 16:29.19 | mcarp | i dont currently have available a bsd or linux system with useful graphics capability so i'm stuck in windows |
| 16:29.36 | mcarp | not that 'stuck in windows' is bad for me |
| 16:29.39 | brlcad | the windows binary should be opengl |
| 16:29.57 | brlcad | that doesn't get you shaded views, but that's an entirely different/long discussion |
| 16:30.43 | brlcad | implicit geometry vs explicit, design history, .. |
| 16:31.09 | mcarp | flat shaded in viewport would be a big problem? |
| 16:33.21 | brlcad | as mged is currently architected, it's a non-trivial problem |
| 16:33.53 | mcarp | its not non-trivial for visualization of what you're building |
| 16:34.04 | brlcad | brl-cad on the whole doesn't really care, but the geometry is fundamentally stored in implicit form which doesn't get you triangles to feed opengl |
| 16:34.42 | mcarp | so the primitives arent drawable per se in ogl? |
| 16:35.16 | brlcad | opengl *only* deals with triangles, so what ever you have, you have to convert to triangles to display via opengl |
| 16:35.34 | brlcad | depending on your base model geometry types, that involves different sorts of conversions |
| 16:36.12 | brlcad | they can be converted, all of them, and we do for some purposes (e.g. adrt is a triangle-only ray-tracer) |
| 16:37.03 | mcarp | has anyone there done any boat hulls? |
| 16:37.20 | brlcad | guys at the navy |
| 16:37.36 | mcarp | nurbs? |
| 16:38.22 | brlcad | there's no direct nurbs edit support in mged, only rendering support where the models come in through conversion or through programmatic creation |
| 16:38.58 | mcarp | how about suspension springs |
| 16:39.05 | mcarp | single helix |
| 16:39.10 | brlcad | oh sure, lots of those |
| 16:39.38 | mcarp | i havent gone deep enough into the tutorials to have a clue how you'd go about doing that with primitives |
| 16:40.00 | brlcad | those can be rather easily constructed using torus sections or using the pipe primitive (which is basically a path-swept sphere with constraints) |
| 16:40.00 | mcarp | which is why i asked about the bolt threads b4 |
| 16:40.51 | mcarp | ok, so there are some specialized deformative type parameters then |
| 16:41.13 | brlcad | csg construction methods don't "come naturally" if you're coming from different design philosophies |
| 16:41.47 | brlcad | it's a different way at looking at modeling problems |
| 16:41.51 | mcarp | well i think its not the csg issues that im in the dark about its the brl-cad issues that im really in the dark on |
| 16:42.02 | brlcad | some things lend themselves very nicely to CSG, others not so nicely depending on the primitive set |
| 16:42.14 | mcarp | sure its all about the primitive set |
| 16:42.28 | mcarp | just as with any system its all about what parameters can be applied |
| 16:45.43 | brlcad | yep |
| 16:46.11 | brlcad | some things with the brep method become complex, there certainly is a tradeoff in the techniques |
| 16:46.33 | brlcad | which would be why most systems have become rather highly hybrid (the CAD systems that is, MAX doesn't count) ;) |
| 16:47.37 | brlcad | solid modeling in general has a variety of topological constraints that aren't easily verifiable in non-CAD systems |
| 16:50.54 | mcarp | yeah thats completely obvious when you start talking about things like pullies and ropes reguarding overlap |
| 17:08.59 | mcarp | /dev/ogll could be much more efficient if it draws only invalidated regions rather than the entire window |
| 17:09.35 | mcarp | but i am able to ratrayce all the scenes i crashed originally with draw * |
| 17:10.24 | Maloeran | Anything better looking than the donut-wheeled truck? :) |
| 17:10.38 | mcarp | yeah havoc looks very nice |
| 17:10.48 | mcarp | tank_car is reasonable as well |
| 17:10.55 | Maloeran | *nods* Good |
| 17:11.01 | mcarp | i havent explored all the examples yet tho |
| 17:11.54 | mcarp | donut tires tho...*shakes head*....i wouldnt show those, not good for recruiting business |
| 17:13.10 | Maloeran | Ah! Donuts, is there anything they can't do? |
| 17:13.56 | brlcad | mcarp: none of the example models are intended for recruiting business .. can't generally provide the models that would be good for recruiting business |
| 17:14.10 | brlcad | they're mostly intended as test models for development |
| 17:14.18 | brlcad | made by non-modelers often too |
| 17:14.59 | brlcad | havoc is perhaps the only exception, and maybe the barbie jeep toy |
| 17:15.28 | mcarp | which database is that? |
| 17:15.53 | brlcad | the latter is a good example of what was possible after the introductory training and a couple hours modeling |
| 17:16.12 | brlcad | it's toyjeep.g |
| 17:16.25 | brlcad | probably not in your version, you'd have to pull it from cvs |
| 17:16.31 | mcarp | yeah its not here |
| 17:17.05 | brlcad | a *really* nice one that I like is the motorolla walkie-talkie that was used in the advanced modeling tutorial |
| 17:19.58 | brlcad | but i've not put that into cvs yet, but it's a nice modeler by one of the best modelers; it's got a lot of meta resources, textures, extrusions, and even a few articulations iirc |
| 17:20.21 | mcarp | okeydoke |
| 17:22.50 | brlcad | and instead of the "couple hours" investment in the toyjeep, it's got a couple weeks of care and detail put into it |
| 17:23.15 | mcarp | got a screen shot? |
| 17:23.23 | brlcad | mcarp: you can get toyjeep from here: http://brlcad.cvs.sourceforge.net/brlcad/brlcad/db/ |
| 17:23.35 | brlcad | download the .asc and run asc2g to convert it |
| 17:24.12 | mcarp | k |
| 17:25.23 | brlcad | there are a couple screenshots in http://ftp.brlcad.org/VolumeIII-Principles_of_Effective_Modeling.pdf |
| 17:25.35 | brlcad | though none of the talkie as a full model |
| 17:25.46 | mcarp | yeah im actually flipping through that document at the moment but havent gotten to it |
| 17:25.47 | mcarp | yet |
| 17:26.06 | brlcad | it just covers a piece of the antenna and the circuit board |
| 17:34.58 | mcarp | odd, raytrace lingering window exits when i try to raytrace that |
| 17:35.17 | mcarp | tops |
| 17:35.18 | mcarp | all/ |
| 17:35.20 | mcarp | draw all |
| 17:36.21 | mcarp | at least it didnt crash mged :P |
| 17:52.35 | mcarp | i can raytrace individual objects but there is something under all/ that cant be drawn |
| 17:54.00 | mcarp | or rather, cant be raytraced |
| 17:55.42 | brlcad | hmm |
| 17:56.13 | mcarp | lot of stuff under there i'd hate to have to figure out what object(s) shouldnt be drawn |
| 17:56.17 | mcarp | the only thing in tops is all/ |
| 17:57.38 | mcarp | ah |
| 17:57.39 | brlcad | it ray-traces just fine here, there may be some issue with the windows version, or asc2g on windows |
| 17:57.48 | mcarp | um, error! fabs(y)=0 |
| 17:58.19 | mcarp | bn_mat_inv: error! fabs(y)=0 |
| 17:58.55 | brlcad | yeah, something wrong with the model |
| 17:59.19 | brlcad | see if this .g works: http://ftp.brlcad.org/~sean/toyjeep.g |
| 17:59.40 | mcarp | a sec |
| 18:00.20 | mcarp | exact same behavior |
| 18:00.36 | mcarp | bn_mat_inv: error! fabs(y)=0 |
| 18:00.37 | mcarp | MATRIX singular matrix: |
| 18:00.37 | mcarp | <PROTECTED> |
| 18:00.37 | mcarp | <PROTECTED> |
| 18:00.37 | mcarp | <PROTECTED> |
| 18:00.39 | mcarp | bn_mat_inv: singular matrix |
| 18:00.58 | mcarp | quick fix suggestions? |
| 18:01.27 | brlcad | short of recompiling with the latest, not really |
| 18:01.37 | mcarp | k, not a problem i can live without seeing it |
| 18:01.44 | brlcad | that will require a debugging session |
| 18:01.46 | mcarp | shame tho |
| 18:01.53 | brlcad | good to know, but quite unexpected |
| 18:02.05 | mcarp | hey, if it can be broken i can break it |
| 18:02.08 | brlcad | the windows release hasn't been around for very long, that is the very first release |
| 18:03.15 | mcarp | i had a machine that could be available for bsd or linux but that hdd was ancient and has gone *poof* |
| 18:03.37 | mcarp | well ancient for maxtor *shrug* |
| 18:04.34 | mcarp | not to mention i'd hate to give up my dual display |
| 18:05.10 | mcarp | max + photoshop you need every available square inch of real estate you can get |
| 18:06.24 | mcarp | i dunno how ppl without dual displays live without them when editing uvw maps in max |
| 18:06.31 | mcarp | ok i do know cuz i used to |
| 18:07.26 | *** join/#brlcad IriX64 (n=IriX64@bas3-sudbury98-1168054347.dsl.bell.ca) | |
| 18:30.09 | mcarp | drawing bl_main_power_line.r or bl_bl.s2 causes the raytracer to exit |
| 18:30.20 | mcarp | all other objects drawn, successful raytrace |
| 18:31.12 | mcarp | bbiaf |
| 18:43.26 | ``Erik | *yawn* |
| 18:55.08 | Maloeran | Eheh. Erik, mcarp is the cathedral & galleon modeller |
| 18:55.57 | Maloeran | Galleon which is quite a test for any raytracer acceleration structure |
| 18:56.44 | mcarp | back |
| 18:58.31 | ``Erik | cool, hi |
| 18:58.52 | mcarp | hi |
| 18:59.24 | ``Erik | <-- is Erik, not a modeller |
| 18:59.46 | mcarp | okeydoke |
| 18:59.53 | Maloeran | Erik, how am I supposed to compile 32 bits executables on amd64 with your autoconf/automake stuff? It tries to link against /usr/lib/libSDL.so which is 64 bits |
| 19:00.05 | Maloeran | Rather than letting ld find the proper library itself |
| 19:00.13 | ``Erik | I'm a model :D *pose* |
| 19:00.23 | brlcad | mcarp: thanks for the details, it's scheduled to get looked into |
| 19:00.24 | ``Erik | mal: that'd be an issue with sdl-config itself... :/ |
| 19:00.32 | mcarp | yw |
| 19:01.20 | Maloeran | No hint of solution then? Besides quickly putting together a working Makefile or even a bash script |
| 19:01.58 | ``Erik | um, I'm sure there is one... |
| 19:02.29 | Maloeran | If I just use -lSDL, ld will find the proper library by itself |
| 19:02.39 | ``Erik | ermmmmmmm |
| 19:02.50 | Maloeran | But the automake stuff tries to force a particular version by -L |
| 19:02.51 | ``Erik | you link with @SDL_LIBS@ ? |
| 19:03.18 | ``Erik | um, I'm kinda wondering if that's libtool doing it, not automake... |
| 19:03.18 | Maloeran | Yes |
| 19:03.50 | CIA-9 | BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/BUGS: rendering toyjeep.g on Windows causes a crash on 'all', as well as bl_main_power_line.r or bl_bl.s2. bn_mat_inv() singular matrix error. bug found and reported by mcarp, thanks |
| 19:04.11 | ``Erik | try to echo ${SDL_LIBS} in configure.ac... or better yet, read what was printed on the screen to link, heh, should be two very very long lines, one that calls libtool with flags, the next being what libtool tries to execute |
| 19:04.38 | brlcad | ah, sdl-config doesn't know/care about 64bit iirc |
| 19:05.19 | Maloeran | gcc -std=gnu99 -I./RT -I/usr/include/SDL -D_REENTRANT -m32 -o .libs/rftest main.o env.o crudemesh.o rtirender.o rtirenderflat.o -Wl,-rpath -Wl,/usr/lib -L/usr/lib /usr/lib/libSDL.so /usr/lib/gcc/x86_64-pc-linux-gnu/3.4.5/libstdc++.so -L/usr/x86_64-pc-linux-gnu/bin -L/usr/x86_64-pc-linux-gnu/lib -L/usr/lib/gcc/x86_64-pc-linux-gnu/3.4.5 -L/usr/lib/gcc/x86_64-pc-linux-gnu/3.4.5/../../../../x86_64-pc-linux-gnu/lib/../lib -L/usr/lib/gcc/x86_64-pc-linux-gnu/3. |
| 19:05.23 | Maloeran | <PROTECTED> |
| 19:05.27 | mcarp | CIA-9: yessir |
| 19:06.20 | Maloeran | CIA-9 is a bot, but I'm sure he appreciates the acknowledgement of its existence :) |
| 19:06.25 | ``Erik | the line before it is what you care about, mal |
| 19:06.29 | mcarp | ah :/ |
| 19:06.39 | Maloeran | mkdir .libs |
| 19:06.46 | Maloeran | <PROTECTED> |
| 19:06.46 | mcarp | you might amend that to 'raytrace exit' doesnt crash brl-cad |
| 19:06.49 | ``Erik | should be like ../../libtool --mode=compile |
| 19:07.06 | ``Erik | ok, so it's libtool screwing the pooch |
| 19:07.12 | ``Erik | not automake or autoconf, hrm |
| 19:08.44 | ``Erik | damn my ribs hurt :/ |
| 19:09.14 | Maloeran | Too much boat rowing with Sean? |
| 19:09.20 | brlcad | heh |
| 19:10.08 | brlcad | you could add an --enable-64bit option of some sort and when enabled/detected do something like `sdl-config --libs | sed 's/lib/lib64/g'` |
| 19:10.38 | Maloeran | Compiling 64 bits is quite fine, it doesn't manage to build on 32 bits |
| 19:10.46 | Maloeran | Unless I compile on another box anyway |
| 19:11.03 | Maloeran | I maintain that we probably would have less problems with one Makefile per platform, it's simple and it works, but.. *sigh* |
| 19:11.06 | brlcad | what does sdl-config --libs output? |
| 19:11.24 | Maloeran | -L/usr/lib -Wl,-rpath,/usr/lib -lSDL -lpthread |
| 19:11.41 | Maloeran | It should be /usr/lib32/libSDL.so for 32 bits libraries |
| 19:12.28 | brlcad | ah, well similar 'trick' should do the trick |
| 19:12.59 | brlcad | ``Erik: cad crash? |
| 19:13.17 | ``Erik | huh? |
| 19:13.23 | Maloeran | Pricy BWM crash? |
| 19:13.27 | ``Erik | yeah :( |
| 19:13.50 | brlcad | just lost connectivity |
| 19:13.56 | ``Erik | http://math.missouristate.edu/~erik/m3/20060925/ (my camera sucks, I need a new one) |
| 19:14.17 | brlcad | system, not the software |
| 19:14.44 | Maloeran | Ahh! |
| 19:14.47 | Maloeran | What happened? |
| 19:15.05 | ``Erik | caught some grass, slid, hit a tree, rolled |
| 19:15.20 | Maloeran | This is horrible. |
| 19:15.26 | ``Erik | no shit? |
| 19:15.46 | brlcad | eek |
| 19:16.12 | Maloeran | I really wasn't aware of that. I hope you aren't too damaged?... |
| 19:16.45 | ``Erik | um, some bruises, stretched ligamints in my rib cage, banged up my elbow, and a minor concussion |
| 19:16.56 | brlcad | that sucks |
| 19:17.07 | ``Erik | yeah, need another car :/ |
| 19:17.07 | brlcad | when was that? |
| 19:17.10 | Maloeran | Ouch, ouch.. |
| 19:17.13 | ``Erik | saturday afternoon |
| 19:17.18 | brlcad | damn |
| 19:17.47 | Maloeran | Were you speeding at the time? |
| 19:18.41 | ``Erik | didn't think I was, but the cops seem to think I was a tiny bit over the limit |
| 19:19.13 | Maloeran | Could that be a problem for the car insurance? |
| 19:19.32 | ``Erik | so far, no? *shrug* I'm crossing my fingers and hoping I'll have a check on friday |
| 19:20.42 | Maloeran | I'm really sorry to hear this... |
| 19:21.08 | Maloeran | At least you came out of it mostly intact, it seems |
| 19:23.11 | Maloeran | Did you lose consciousness or just felt dizzy?.. |
| 19:23.20 | ``Erik | neither |
| 19:23.35 | ``Erik | rolled it, got out through the sunroof and was walking around |
| 19:23.59 | Maloeran | Ah, so it was quite minor, right |
| 19:24.46 | Maloeran | ( the concussion that is ) |
| 19:37.12 | dtidrow_work | banged your head good, in other words? |
| 19:37.14 | Maloeran | Were air bags helpful? I have often wondered how effective these cushions were |
| 19:37.14 | dtidrow_work | well, I suspect they don't do much in a rollover |
| 19:37.15 | Maloeran | They could prevent strain on the upper back, as the torso and head are being thrown around |
| 19:39.55 | ``Erik | I d'no, I hit a tree and rolled it and came out pretty decent, so I guess between the seat belt and airbag that deployed *shrug* |
| 19:40.32 | Maloeran | Yes, it really could have been worse |
| 19:42.43 | Maloeran | I wish you a good recovery, please take care of yourself Erik |
| 19:43.22 | ``Erik | heh, I'm trying to not get dead :) I think I came out better than you did with your bike accident |
| 19:43.29 | ``Erik | those bikes are horrible death traps ;) *duck* |
| 19:44.34 | Maloeran | :) Yes that's probably true, bicycles only get dangerous when there are motorized vehicules around |
| 19:44.57 | ``Erik | I d'no, I've heard about people taking tumbles on trails and stuff |
| 19:45.24 | mcarp | plus those derned helmets can muss yer hair |
| 19:45.45 | ``Erik | meh, programmers hair is always mussed up |
| 19:46.15 | mcarp | well sure but...thats beside the point of the inconvenience |
| 19:46.31 | Maloeran | I suppose so. I once rammed fairly hard in a tree to avoid a child on roller blade who fell just in front of me, but that car door sure was worse |
| 19:46.44 | mcarp | s/programmers/all computer nerds/ |
| 19:47.19 | ``Erik | damn nonprogrammer computer nerds, trying to get into the programmer geek clique... :D |
| 19:47.45 | mcarp | <---15 years x86 assembly booya |
| 19:47.59 | brlcad | heh |
| 19:47.59 | ``Erik | um, ok, so you're a masochist, too |
| 19:48.00 | ``Erik | :) |
| 19:48.06 | mcarp | correct |
| 19:48.33 | mcarp | add to that win32 usage :~ |
| 19:49.08 | ``Erik | I had an x86 15 yrs ago, but still used my commodores heavily |
| 19:49.13 | mcarp | better watch it, is that a mactel? |
| 19:49.17 | ``Erik | no |
| 19:49.20 | mcarp | lol |
| 19:49.29 | ``Erik | on a dual g5 right now, have a g4 powerbook and g3 ibook at home |
| 19:49.51 | mcarp | to each his own |
| 19:50.07 | ``Erik | but I tend to do crunch work on freebsd boxes with many opteron chips pushing |
| 19:50.38 | mcarp | hey, they're all computers i can live with it |
| 19:50.51 | Maloeran | The g4 powerbook was somewhat poor, half the ray-tracing crunch of a Sempron 1.8ghz laptop |
| 19:51.14 | mcarp | bummer |
| 19:51.27 | ``Erik | if you blow the pipeline and stall left and right, yeah... *cough* *cough* |
| 19:51.29 | mcarp | im using a sempron 2200 on a 1.5Ghz mb |
| 19:51.48 | Maloeran | Laptop or desktop? |
| 19:51.53 | mcarp | desk |
| 19:51.56 | mcarp | (asus) |
| 19:52.05 | Maloeran | Mmhm. Let's get you an upgrade soon :) |
| 19:52.35 | mcarp | doubt it will matter much considering the non-graphicly intense requirements of brl-cad |
| 19:52.36 | ``Erik | heh, pheer my 850mhz tbirt at home :) |
| 19:52.51 | ``Erik | erm, mged and 'rt' are pretty graphically intense |
| 19:52.56 | dtidrow_work | heh |
| 19:53.26 | mcarp | maybe when you get into 100s of 1000s of objects |
| 19:53.37 | ``Erik | small geometries hehehe |
| 19:53.46 | mcarp | im doing ok on 2million faces in max |
| 19:54.01 | mcarp | lags until cached, but otherwise not bad |
| 19:56.20 | Maloeran | Your galleon takes 200mb of RAM to ray-trace too, somewhat heavy |
| 19:57.04 | mcarp | its a good thing the capt of the roter lowe is not alive to hear you call his frigate a gallean or *slash slash* |
| 19:57.47 | Maloeran | :) Right right, frigate |
| 19:57.48 | mcarp | now of course spanish galleons were about that size |
| 19:59.14 | mcarp | Maloeran: build me a perspective viewport flat shader |
| 19:59.26 | ``Erik | http://www.pacific-tall-ships.com/Roterlo_files/Roterlo_1.htm pheer |
| 19:59.49 | mcarp | aye |
| 20:00.17 | mcarp | the site i got my drawings from misspelled roter-lowe to 'rotter-lowe' |
| 20:00.37 | mcarp | i was unable to google for images until i had nearly completed the model in its entirity :/ |
| 20:00.38 | ``Erik | http://www.historicships.com/TALLSHIPS/Mamoli/RoterLoweMV19.htm |
| 20:00.44 | mcarp | this was...a slight inconvenience |
| 20:01.19 | mcarp | yeah that last image was the one i used for flag reference |
| 20:01.43 | Maloeran | Quite cice. I still prefer a 3d model to a wood model |
| 20:01.47 | Maloeran | nice, even |
| 20:01.58 | mcarp | wood are quite satisfying to build tho |
| 20:02.35 | mcarp | it should be completely obvious that i made up my own (non-period) color scheme since i didnt have any images |
| 20:03.13 | mcarp | however i would have done a few things differently had i had access to google images at the time |
| 20:03.30 | mcarp | and i totally ignore that in the drawins 'roter-lowe' was spelled correctly :? |
| 20:03.32 | mcarp | :/ |
| 20:04.16 | mcarp | note the tripple block/tackle loading on the fore and main stays |
| 20:04.20 | mcarp | mine are singles :/ |
| 20:05.31 | Maloeran | Oh... Well, still something that could easily be fixed if you desire so. It's a great model in any case |
| 20:05.44 | mcarp | perhaps |
| 20:06.20 | mcarp | i also found another interesting fact (language gap) roter lowe == "red lion" |
| 20:07.13 | Maloeran | That explains the lion figure |
| 20:07.16 | mcarp | so you see, history of a particular subject is good to have |
| 20:07.22 | mcarp | indeed and that it is red |
| 20:07.49 | mcarp | all i had were black and white fuzzy line drawings |
| 20:09.00 | Maloeran | Don't worry about that :), it can be interesting to fill the missing pieces as you see them |
| 20:09.18 | mcarp | i almost wonder if the web site owner misspelled rotter-lowe to keep us from finding additional info :P |
| 20:09.52 | mcarp | well as you know it began as a personal fulfilment project so yeah, it doesnt matter that mauch |
| 20:09.54 | mcarp | much |
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| 20:10.34 | mcarp | at least one thing is for sure, bitmaps are easy to switch out heh |
| 20:12.18 | Maloeran | Eheh yes. I might try swapping a few textures once I get to worry about eye-candy |
| 20:12.33 | mcarp | Maloeran: build me a perspective viewport flat shader |
| 20:12.50 | Maloeran | In BRL-CAD? |
| 20:13.02 | mcarp | begin spam repeat 2,000,000 |
| 20:13.13 | mcarp | of course |
| 20:13.36 | Maloeran | It's a bit early for that, I'm supposed to integrate my stuff in there in January or so |
| 20:13.53 | Maloeran | Until then, I can post crude screenshots :p http://www.rayforce.net/galleon01.png |
| 20:14.20 | mcarp | that wont do me anygood building csg :P |
| 20:16.48 | mcarp | whew, you need some normal smoothing |
| 20:18.17 | mcarp | hey, havent you downloaded the release version yet? |
| 20:19.01 | Maloeran | I did, not converted it yet. It's a bit low priority, I'm supposed to code and document a bunch of code for last friday |
| 20:19.52 | mcarp | ah |
| 20:38.07 | ``Erik | screw smoothed normals, just add more triangles, once they hit the subpixel range, it's all good |
| 20:38.07 | Maloeran | Nah. Screw triangles, use curved facets |
| 20:38.07 | ``Erik | heh |
| 20:38.07 | Maloeran | Triangles are just a special case of curved facets |
| 20:38.07 | ``Erik | and curved facets are a special case of b-splines, yadda yadda |
| 20:38.08 | ``Erik | somethin' about hyperdimensional manifolds, blah |
| 20:38.08 | ``Erik | which, of course, are all just a coarse approximation of a particle render |
| 20:38.10 | mcarp | and hey, we're all just collections of harmonic bumps in the quantum strata |
| 20:38.11 | ``Erik | "Today, a young man on acid realised that all matter is merely energy condensed to a slow vibration. That we are all one consciousness experiencing itself subjectively. There is no such thing as death, life is only a dream and we're the imagination of ourselves. Here's Tom with the weather." |
| 20:38.11 | ``Erik | -billhicks |
| 20:38.12 | mcarp | gasp |
| 20:38.13 | mcarp | i suggested to my brother a few weeks ago that after his "death" his particular electro-chemical brain pattern might become manifest in some distant part of the universe |
| 20:38.14 | mcarp | there was no reply |
| 20:38.14 | Maloeran | Neat, I think that's a more likely occurance than the existence of some god-guided after-life |
| 20:38.14 | mcarp | indeed mal |
| 20:38.14 | mcarp | altho for those who feel they need to believe in such things, i suppose its a matter of syntax |
| 20:39.31 | mcarp | bbl |
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| 23:59.38 | brlcad | gah, damn opengl |
| 00:12.50 | ``Erik | um, the irix box? |
| 00:52.41 | Twingy | "nmap -p1-100 74.92.144.217" plz |
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| 01:12.37 | danfalck | Twingy: can I ask you a question about getting gcam installed? |
| 01:16.32 | danfalck | Twingy: I asked too soon. I think I know the answer to my earlier question. |
| 01:18.42 | danfalck | Twingy: I think I'm missing the *.h files for gcam |
| 01:22.23 | Twingy | k |
| 01:22.31 | Twingy | impossible |
| 01:22.44 | danfalck | ok |
| 01:22.55 | danfalck | let me untar it again |
| 01:24.14 | danfalck | no *.h files in the tar file |
| 01:25.40 | Twingy | uh |
| 01:25.50 | Twingy | none? |
| 01:25.53 | danfalck | none |
| 01:26.00 | Twingy | odd |
| 01:26.08 | danfalck | but I think that I have all the dependencies set up now |
| 01:26.21 | danfalck | gtk+-2 etc... |
| 01:26.50 | Twingy | how are you checking if you have headers |
| 01:27.18 | danfalck | looking in the libgcode and libgui directories |
| 01:27.32 | Twingy | tar -zxvf gcam_2006_09_23.tgz ? |
| 01:28.09 | danfalck | maybe I have the wrong one |
| 01:28.20 | danfalck | gcam-1.0.0.tar.gz |
| 01:28.24 | danfalck | oh oh |
| 01:29.19 | Twingy | just for that I'm going to make you nmap me |
| 01:29.32 | danfalck | ? |
| 01:30.21 | Twingy | "nmap -p1-100 74.92.144.217" |
| 01:30.47 | danfalck | what's it do? sorry ... |
| 01:31.02 | Twingy | scans me |
| 01:31.22 | danfalck | nmap -p1-100 74.92.144.217 |
| 01:34.05 | Twingy | and? |
| 01:34.18 | danfalck | nothing showed up here |
| 01:34.54 | danfalck | let me try it again |
| 01:35.21 | Twingy | you're typing this in your terminal windows right? |
| 01:35.40 | danfalck | Twingy: from bash right? |
| 01:35.46 | Twingy | yah |
| 01:35.53 | danfalck | bash terminal |
| 01:36.01 | danfalck | let me set it up |
| 01:38.43 | danfalck | ok working now |
| 01:39.06 | danfalck | here goes: |
| 01:39.08 | danfalck | Starting Nmap 4.10 ( http://www.insecure.org/nmap/ ) at 2006-09-26 18:38 PDT |
| 01:39.08 | danfalck | Interesting ports on 74-92-144-217-WashingtonDC.hfc.comcastbusiness.net (74.92.144.217): |
| 01:39.08 | danfalck | Not shown: 97 filtered ports |
| 01:39.08 | danfalck | PORT STATE SERVICE |
| 01:39.08 | danfalck | 22/tcp open ssh |
| 01:39.09 | danfalck | 53/tcp open domain |
| 01:39.11 | danfalck | 80/tcp open http |
| 01:39.13 | danfalck | Nmap finished: 1 IP address (1 host up) scanned in 16.418 seconds |
| 01:39.18 | Twingy | aha! |
| 01:39.20 | Twingy | good good |
| 01:39.28 | Twingy | now, nslookup js.cx |
| 01:39.37 | danfalck | and I found the right gcam file. sorry about that |
| 01:39.44 | danfalck | ok |
| 01:40.06 | danfalck | dan@ubuntu:~$ nslookup js.cx |
| 01:40.06 | danfalck | Server: 68.238.64.12 |
| 01:40.06 | danfalck | Address: 68.238.64.12#53 |
| 01:40.06 | danfalck | Non-authoritative answer: |
| 01:40.06 | danfalck | Name: js.cx |
| 01:40.07 | danfalck | Address: 74.92.144.217 |
| 01:40.43 | Twingy | sweet |
| 01:40.48 | Twingy | now http://www.js.cx |
| 01:40.51 | Twingy | anything pop up? |
| 01:40.59 | Twingy | gcam.js.cx rather |
| 01:41.10 | CIA-9 | BRL-CAD: 03lbutler * 10brlcad/src/tclscripts/mged/ (expand_comb_tree.tcl facetize_all_regions.tcl): removed debugging logging. added code comment. |
| 01:42.17 | danfalck | yes, it works |
| 01:42.24 | Twingy | good deal |
| 01:42.25 | danfalck | it gets to your "project page" |
| 01:42.31 | Twingy | I just upgraded to comcast at work |
| 01:42.39 | Twingy | 6mb down, 768 up + static ip |
| 01:43.23 | danfalck | gcam page works |
| 01:43.47 | Twingy | great |
| 01:43.50 | Twingy | okay, back to compiling |
| 01:43.53 | danfalck | I will install the right file, right after dinner. Thanks |
| 01:43.55 | danfalck | bbl |
| 01:47.50 | Twingy | solar panels go up in 4 days |
| 01:58.30 | danfalck | Twingy: success with gcam! |
| 01:59.56 | Twingy | much better |
| 02:00.26 | danfalck | yes |
| 02:00.29 | danfalck | thank you |
| 02:00.44 | Twingy | yea, well, it obviously a work in progress |
| 02:00.50 | danfalck | hey I see on your website that you like to melt aluminum. |
| 02:01.01 | Twingy | yea |
| 02:01.03 | danfalck | I did that in my backyard some years ago too |
| 02:01.13 | danfalck | don't breath the fumes |
| 02:01.24 | Twingy | I do it outside when its windy |
| 02:01.29 | danfalck | good idea |
| 02:01.37 | Twingy | and I hold my breath when stoking it |
| 02:01.49 | danfalck | can I import anything into gcam. dxf? |
| 02:02.01 | Twingy | if I do this on a regular basis I'll use my respirator |
| 02:02.07 | Twingy | nada |
| 02:02.10 | danfalck | ok |
| 02:02.14 | Twingy | I'll explain why |
| 02:02.44 | Twingy | gcam is an environment that is designed to restrict the user from inputing bogus commands |
| 02:03.01 | Twingy | you could import a dxf sphere |
| 02:03.05 | Twingy | and bad things happen |
| 02:03.39 | danfalck | ok |
| 02:03.39 | Twingy | plus dxf doesn't represent arcs |
| 02:03.48 | Twingy | gcam is an engineering tool, not an art tool |
| 02:04.24 | Twingy | designing curvy surfaces is nice and all, but serves little utility to me |
| 02:04.53 | Twingy | plus it's open source |
| 02:05.02 | danfalck | well, I was thinking about plates with radius' or chamfers on the outside and pockets or bored holes in them |
| 02:05.08 | Twingy | so if it evolves (or devolves) into something else it's up to the community |
| 02:05.12 | danfalck | ok |
| 02:05.20 | Twingy | you can bevel holes |
| 02:05.23 | danfalck | are you running it on your mac? |
| 02:05.27 | Twingy | that's what the extrusion is for |
| 02:05.30 | Twingy | no, freebsd |
| 02:05.33 | danfalck | ok |
| 02:05.41 | Twingy | doing something like this |
| 02:05.42 | Twingy | \ |
| 02:05.43 | Twingy | <PROTECTED> |
| 02:05.46 | Twingy | <PROTECTED> |
| 02:05.47 | Twingy | <PROTECTED> |
| 02:05.51 | Twingy | is entirely possible |
| 02:06.11 | danfalck | cool. I will study the code and learn |
| 02:06.18 | Twingy | you can also make a parabola |
| 02:06.22 | Twingy | for a bowl |
| 02:06.48 | Twingy | restrictions have not been implemented yet, so use it at your own risk |
| 02:07.21 | danfalck | I have the means for checking the code before using it - Axis |
| 02:07.33 | danfalck | or my backplot in Vectorcam |
| 02:07.43 | danfalck | or just read the gcode |
| 02:07.51 | Twingy | my primary focus is getting this toward a release |
| 02:07.54 | danfalck | which is always a good idea |
| 02:08.04 | Twingy | so use it, comment on it |
| 02:08.18 | danfalck | ok I am testing it now |
| 02:19.16 | Twingy | the biggest thing left is having a folder where all the mill profiles and end mills are stored |
| 02:19.30 | Twingy | so users can hack a text file to make a new mill profile |
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| 03:17.01 | danfalck | Twingy: crashed after removing 2 lines in a row |
| 03:21.59 | danfalck | Twingy: create 4 lines, remove them one at a time starting with the 4th line |
| 03:22.12 | danfalck | when you reach #2 - crash |
| 03:22.16 | danfalck | seg fault |
| 03:22.35 | danfalck | sorry guys, this is not BRLCad info |
| 03:23.58 | brlcad | close enough |
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| 03:32.57 | danfalck | bye |
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| 19:41.57 | PrezKennedy | stupid itunes |
| 21:19.30 | CIA-9 | BRL-CAD: 03lbutler * 10brlcad/src/tclscripts/mged/Makefile.am: Install the facetize_all_regions.tcl script |
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| 03:09.40 | Maloeran | That 1.7 million triangles frigate really kills the raytracing performance, with all its diagonal ropes through the scene. Very stressfull test for a raytracer... I would be interested in knowing how my 200mb of RAM use on this compares with ADRT |
| 03:10.44 | Maloeran | Or 400mb if I push the quality ( and performance ) high |
| 03:19.04 | CIA-9 | BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/sh/ (footer.sh header.sh): add support for C++ and Objective-C/C++ to the mix |
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| 11:54.20 | CIA-9 | BRL-CAD: 03d_rossberg * 10brlcad/BUGS: fixed rendering toyjeep.g on Windows bug (on 7/6/2006) by using a less rigorouse function to invert a 4x4 matrix in rt_bend_pipe_prep |
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| 13:04.20 | Maloeran | Does anyone have a recommendation for the best reference for doxygen comments in the BRL-CAD code? |
| 13:05.14 | Maloeran | I noticed Lee working on libuu's doxygen documentation, though I'm not sure where that libuu is. Not much comes out on find |
| 13:05.56 | Maloeran | Ah, or perhaps it was libbu |
| 14:01.31 | Maloeran | Eh, Doxygen is confused about GCC's __attribute__() |
| 14:22.54 | ``Erik | O.o |
| 14:24.44 | Maloeran | Feeling any better, Erik? |
| 14:34.32 | ``Erik | not much, heh |
| 14:35.00 | Maloeran | :/ Did you go through a x-ray scan just to make sure? |
| 14:38.24 | ``Erik | yeah, several xrays and a catscan |
| 14:38.50 | ``Erik | btw, I think I may have an idea on why your code doesn't run so hot on g4/g5 ... gcc 4.0.0 |
| 14:39.20 | Maloeran | Oh hum, that's a possibility. The assembly looked very poor, as little as I know that arch |
| 14:39.49 | Maloeran | The demo now loads the 1.7 million triangles frigate with caching, if you want |
| 14:40.19 | ``Erik | yeah, been building for a few minutes |
| 14:40.23 | ``Erik | it segfaults on my amd64 |
| 14:40.35 | ``Erik | #0 0x0000000801758c88 in stepComputeValue (step=0x522030) at ../../../RF/prepmodel.c:701 |
| 14:40.35 | ``Erik | 701 step->linkcost[RF_EDGE_MAXZ] = WALK_LINKCOUNT_COST( step->linkcount[ RF_EDGE_MAXZ ] ); |
| 14:40.44 | Maloeran | Hum. Okay |
| 14:41.34 | Maloeran | I seriously need to speed up that prep eventually, it does a decent job but isn't fast at it |
| 14:42.29 | Maloeran | Could you p step->linkcount[ RF_EDGE_MAXZ ] on that segfault? It's rather curious |
| 14:44.33 | Maloeran | Even with low preparation quality, the 'prep' can eat up to 500mb ; if it takes minutes, I think you are swapping... |
| 14:50.23 | brlcad | src/lib*, there's a list of what each of the various libs do in HACKING and src/README |
| 14:51.11 | Maloeran | I was more looking for the best reference for the desired doxygen comment style, rather than a specific library |
| 14:54.48 | ``Erik | it's consuming one whole cpu, 508.19m real, 719.54m virtual, and has been going for 22 minutes |
| 14:54.55 | Maloeran | Thanks Erik, bug reproductible if I fill all malloc'ed memory with garbage |
| 14:55.09 | ``Erik | mal: yet another linux vs restoftheworld type issue |
| 14:55.28 | Maloeran | Woah, it takes less than a minute on a good Athlon |
| 14:56.10 | ``Erik | I got 1.3m r/s with the m1 a couple days ago |
| 14:56.27 | ``Erik | I'm wondering if maybe it's caught in an infinite loop due to different rounding behaviors or something |
| 14:56.33 | Maloeran | I got 2.5-3.0m on my desktop, but the frigate is much more demanding |
| 14:56.55 | Maloeran | That shouldn't happen, then again, I might have missed something in this new prep written from scratch |
| 14:56.58 | ``Erik | oh, and *HUGE* stalls on some ops, heh |
| 14:57.09 | ``Erik | but I think it's a compiler problem more than anything else :/ |
| 14:57.20 | ``Erik | and stupid darwinports won't compile gcc42 |
| 14:58.01 | Maloeran | Yes, the dotproduct4 assembly code was loading all the values just before working on them, instead of scheduling a bit |
| 14:58.30 | ``Erik | hm, 'real' memory dropped a bit and is creaping back up |
| 14:58.33 | ``Erik | it must still be doing SOMETHING |
| 14:58.36 | ``Erik | uh |
| 14:58.38 | Maloeran | Ahah |
| 14:58.42 | ``Erik | you don't do something like realloc in that prep, do you? |
| 14:59.04 | Maloeran | Very rarely, but it will happen |
| 14:59.08 | ``Erik | hrm |
| 14:59.30 | ``Erik | it's horrendously expensive on the bsd family since phkmalloc and dmalloc work differently |
| 14:59.32 | Maloeran | I realloc the table of pages for pointer directories, for sectors/steps/nodes |
| 14:59.37 | Maloeran | I see. |
| 15:00.20 | ``Erik | phkmalloc tries to keep things more secure from mmu smashes, so it tries to force memory to be contiguous on the wire, which means a realloc is an ugly naive alloc/copy/dealloc instead of dmalloc's page mangling |
| 15:00.33 | Maloeran | Gah! |
| 15:00.44 | ``Erik | MOST unix has a very very slow realloc |
| 15:01.42 | ``Erik | but mallocing more than you need is 'free', it won't actually hit wire until it's written to, so malloc 2g, use what you want, don't worry about it *shrug* :) |
| 15:02.28 | Maloeran | Then it's swapping around happily, hence why it takes 22 minutes instead of 40 seconds |
| 15:02.56 | ``Erik | swap is totally unused right now |
| 15:03.15 | Maloeran | What is system doing? |
| 15:03.21 | ``Erik | I d'no *shrug* |
| 15:03.37 | ``Erik | you're making system calls (wrapped via libc calls, I'm sure) that are expensive |
| 15:04.04 | Maloeran | There are no system calls but malloc/free/realloc in there |
| 15:04.19 | ``Erik | malloc and free should be fast |
| 15:04.21 | ``Erik | there it is |
| 15:04.24 | ``Erik | realloc is dog slow |
| 15:04.44 | Maloeran | It's really realloc? The one in mmDir* in mm.c ? |
| 15:07.33 | ``Erik | hrm, in the raytrace porttion, 9.6% of the time is spent on one op... "cror" (but it's stalled pretty heavy) |
| 15:08.16 | Maloeran | In the dot product again? :) |
| 15:08.54 | ``Erik | graphTraceDualOut line 635, the "if(dstdist<=0.0)", which looks like it has to do two sequential tests and then or the results before choosing to branch |
| 15:09.37 | ``Erik | so to the machine, it looks like "if( dstdist<0.0 || dstdist==0.0 )", requiring both to get out of the pipeline, then feed back in for the or? *shrug* |
| 15:09.52 | Maloeran | That's quite possible, weird chip you got |
| 15:09.53 | ``Erik | vs if(!(dstdir>0.0)) which can be streamed |
| 15:09.58 | ``Erik | it's risc *shrug* |
| 15:10.12 | Maloeran | dstdist < 0.0 if you prefer, won't make a difference |
| 15:10.32 | ``Erik | I'm kinda guessing based on what the little comment in shark says, heh |
| 15:10.48 | Maloeran | Yes I remember |
| 15:10.50 | ``Erik | 14% of compute time is on that dstdis = _mathPlanePoint(tri->plane, dst) on 634 |
| 15:11.22 | ``Erik | ' |
| 15:11.24 | ``Erik | gheh |
| 15:12.29 | Maloeran | So I suppose it finished prep'in in the end. Care to profile that part?.. |
| 15:12.48 | Maloeran | I can't see what would take so long, as lazy as some of the code is |
| 15:15.37 | Maloeran | If you do so, make sure to delete the cache or it will just load it |
| 15:24.40 | ``Erik | sure, uh, I'll gzip the cache instead, heh... |
| 15:24.55 | ``Erik | rtch ? |
| 15:24.58 | Maloeran | Right |
| 15:25.13 | ``Erik | 100 meg file, huh |
| 15:25.55 | Maloeran | I was aiming for a bit packed version earlier, I'll switch back to that later |
| 15:26.19 | Maloeran | ( So if you need 13 bits to identify a sector, it will use that instead of 32 bits ) |
| 15:26.46 | ``Erik | interesting, it starts very user based, and linearly ramps to very system based |
| 15:27.21 | Maloeran | Anything more precise on what's going on in system? |
| 15:29.49 | ``Erik | "shandler" sounds familiar? |
| 15:31.03 | Maloeran | Hum, no? |
| 15:32.25 | ``Erik | only 15.6 spend outside of mach_kernel |
| 15:32.48 | ``Erik | the biggest single symbol being vm_map_enter |
| 15:33.02 | ``Erik | which kinda smells like lots of small alloc's |
| 15:33.33 | ``Erik | O.O holy forshizzle |
| 15:33.56 | ``Erik | chunk->prev = (void *)&(mmList); is greviously expensive, if I'm reading this right |
| 15:34.18 | Maloeran | But... how? |
| 15:34.27 | ``Erik | stw r0,12(r3) |
| 15:35.24 | ``Erik | okie, readin that wrong... |
| 15:35.48 | ``Erik | of the 3% of program time, that op was the big consumer there... still less than 3% total |
| 15:36.07 | Maloeran | :) I prefer that |
| 15:53.44 | ``Erik | *shrug* comments and docs would allow other people to understand your stuff more readily and maybe make comments on possible concerns or bottlenecks that you'd otherwise spend a lot of time tracking |
| 15:53.55 | ``Erik | especially since your environment is pretty homogenous |
| 15:54.31 | Maloeran | I wanted to try Justin's fbsd box but it only has 256mb of ram |
| 15:55.22 | ``Erik | mine only has 384, heh |
| 15:55.39 | ``Erik | my home one, that is |
| 15:56.17 | Maloeran | I just tried profiling in gprof, and it doesn't profile anything in shared libraries :p, so I profiled my main.c |
| 15:56.45 | ``Erik | you need to build profiling forms of the shared libraries |
| 15:57.06 | ``Erik | uhmmm, on fbsd, you'd see like libc.so and libc_p.so where _p.so is for the profiling lib |
| 15:57.25 | ``Erik | I'm too out of leenewx to remember there, heh |
| 15:57.26 | Maloeran | Shared libraries were built with -pg as well, anything else? |
| 15:58.47 | Maloeran | Any sensitive results out of Sharp? |
| 16:01.50 | Maloeran | "Support for gprof profiling of shared libraries is available on 32-bit systems only." What the... |
| 16:02.20 | Maloeran | Sorry, nevermind that, specific to HP-Unix |
| 16:02.22 | ``Erik | shark? I don't think I ran it right, so I'm rerunning it :/ |
| 16:06.12 | ``Erik | stepSampleSort is a bit pricey |
| 16:06.56 | Maloeran | Like 5% or 40%? |
| 16:07.05 | ``Erik | 22.6 |
| 16:07.31 | Maloeran | Okay. That's one of the thing I have marked to fix, I'm more wondering about the time spent on "system" |
| 16:08.27 | ``Erik | sampleAddTri() is a tiny bit expensive, ... |
| 16:09.30 | Maloeran | Yes... and I'm not even using these lists yet, planning ahead for improvements of the prep |
| 16:10.28 | Maloeran | Can you throw all the profiling text at me? |
| 16:12.01 | ``Erik | uhmmmmm, I'm running another set with different time variables |
| 16:35.39 | Maloeran | So 50% is spent outside the executable itself, that's... cute ;) |
| 16:36.39 | ``Erik | I d'no if that's because it's a single thread on a dual proc machine, or if it's just not seeing the frame stack correctly when it samples, or if sdl throws threads, or what |
| 16:39.42 | Maloeran | The model is built before SDL is initialized, and you mentionned the system share starts growing later on |
| 16:40.06 | ``Erik | hm, part of sdl is initialized before main() iirc |
| 16:40.20 | ``Erik | it immediately pops up an sdl icon in the doc |
| 16:40.23 | ``Erik | before the window appears |
| 16:40.24 | ``Erik | dock |
| 16:41.17 | Maloeran | Right I see |
| 16:47.26 | Maloeran | I think I would know how to build shared libraries for gprof'iling, except that everything goes though this libtool thing |
| 16:48.33 | ``Erik | yeah, I'm not terribly keen on libtool, but dynamic libraries are different on every os :/ |
| 16:49.09 | ``Erik | btw, I msg'd the url there because I can't msg here and I don't know how public you want that info... I'll delete it if you want |
| 16:50.20 | Maloeran | Ah, nothing sensitive in there |
| 16:53.49 | ``Erik | ok, thandler is the 'trap handler' and shandler is the 'syscall handler', in the mach kernel (micro, so it's handled via messages and 'servers', not function calls) |
| 16:54.33 | Maloeran | Trap handler sounds like handling of page faults when running out of ram |
| 16:54.53 | Maloeran | Syscall handler... Growing the heap size? 25% of the processing time? Gez. |
| 17:06.47 | ``Erik | hrm, dude, I have 2g of ram and I'm only using like 200m |
| 17:06.53 | ``Erik | and I never touched swap |
| 17:07.13 | ``Erik | now the trap might be cache line related or something else *shrug* and itt might be system wide, not just applied to your application |
| 17:09.17 | ``Erik | I just ran a program to allocate a gig in 1m chunks and write crap to every page... almost no system time consumed in that (16s user, 3s sys) |
| 17:09.35 | ``Erik | no slowdown in it, so no swap hit |
| 17:10.23 | ``Erik | about 1.5g I start seeing swap hits |
| 17:11.28 | Maloeran | Right. I could be mistaken, but the trap handler handles page faults and I don't see what else could be causing faults.. |
| 17:13.59 | ``Erik | page fault is just one kind of trap |
| 17:16.26 | ``Erik | ok, in the midst of the ugly, the syscall handler is 54% and the trap handler is 21.5%, |
| 17:16.40 | ``Erik | the trap that consumes most time looks to be "ml_set_interrupts_enabled" |
| 17:17.07 | ``Erik | only 1% of the time is vm_fault |
| 17:17.28 | Maloeran | I can't think of any other syscall being made but malloc() and friends |
| 17:17.43 | ``Erik | "isync" is the big trap abuse |
| 17:17.57 | ``Erik | context switches force traps and shit, too |
| 17:19.21 | ``Erik | ok, isync stops new ops from entering the pipeline and waits until the pipeline is empty, "This instruction is context synchronizing" |
| 17:19.39 | ``Erik | for OS memory management tasks, like changes in the mmu |
| 17:23.22 | ``Erik | "large_and_huge_malloc" might be related, in mmAlloc under sampleAddTri |
| 17:24.46 | Maloeran | 20-40k is "large and huge" ? |
| 17:25.15 | ``Erik | bigger than a page *shrug* I d'no, heh, I'm looking through this stuff more or less lost... |
| 17:25.18 | ``Erik | <-- doesn't know ppc asm :) |
| 17:25.26 | Maloeran | #define SAMPLE_TRIANGLES_PER_LIST (4096) could be set to 200k or something *shrug*, to have fewer calls |
| 17:51.38 | Maloeran | Erik, could one of OSX's "security feature" be to zero malloc() chunks or something? I'm running out of hypotheses |
| 17:52.38 | ``Erik | might be *shrug* I d'no |
| 17:55.12 | Maloeran | "The default malloc on OS X causes a large performance degradation relative to the default mallocs on Linux and Solaris." |
| 17:55.16 | Maloeran | Gah. |
| 17:56.42 | Maloeran | 50% slower, nothing of the scale we saw here |
| 18:07.06 | ``Erik | interesting, a significant portion of time looks like it's attribtued to handling l2 cache misses |
| 18:09.45 | ``Erik | ahhhhhhhhh |
| 18:10.05 | ``Erik | mmAlloc() cooks up time in a kernel function called "Zero Fill" |
| 18:10.15 | Maloeran | AHH!! |
| 18:10.26 | ``Erik | which'd explain cache thrashing |
| 18:10.35 | Maloeran | _That_ is the reason, I'm allocating a whole bunch and freeing, sometimes without even using the chunks |
| 18:10.59 | ``Erik | learn somethin' new every day |
| 18:11.22 | Maloeran | Can you fix that? |
| 18:11.30 | Maloeran | Can you make malloc() behave in a sane manner? |
| 18:12.32 | ``Erik | googling for that now... and 'sane' is a phrase that can be argued against... :D quit abusing malloc? *duck* |
| 18:12.37 | ``Erik | http://lists.apple.com/archives/Darwin-development/2003/Apr/msg00217.html mentions some |
| 18:12.46 | Maloeran | Maybe there are multiple memory managers on OSX, as there are multiple threading libraries on fbsd ( and the default one is horrible too ) |
| 18:13.17 | Maloeran | Why would an OS ever memset() malloc'ed chunks? I can do that myself I need it, that's absurd |
| 18:13.28 | Maloeran | if* I need it |
| 18:13.49 | Maloeran | The segfault mentionned earlier was fixed too |
| 18:13.56 | ``Erik | http://lists.apple.com/archives/Darwin-development/2003/Apr/msg00210.html answers that, heh |
| 18:14.01 | ``Erik | security mechanism |
| 18:14.11 | Maloeran | Absurd. |
| 18:16.01 | ``Erik | http://developer.apple.com/tools/performance/optimizingwithsystemtrace.html and search for "zero-fill" |
| 18:17.25 | Maloeran | So I have to write my own full-featured memory manager because the OSX manager is too incompetent to care about performance |
| 18:17.48 | ``Erik | well, the converse argument is that the linux memory manager is too incompetent to care about security |
| 18:17.52 | Maloeran | That also explains why even the m1a2 was taking so long to prep on your laptops, it's supposed to be a few seconds |
| 18:18.26 | Maloeran | If a process puts sensitive stuff in RAM, it's the duty of _that_ process to mlock() the memory and clear it accordingly |
| 18:18.44 | Maloeran | Don't slow down the whole OS for a few chunks of ram that might possibly contain something sensitive |
| 18:19.09 | ``Erik | heh |
| 18:19.22 | ``Erik | in the land of incompetent coders... :) |
| 18:19.32 | Maloeran | mlock() and related functions exist for a good reason |
| 18:19.45 | ``Erik | yes, as do calloc(), etc... |
| 18:20.33 | Maloeran | Grah, this is so absurd |
| 18:20.58 | ``Erik | freebsd does the same thing, apparently |
| 18:21.04 | ``Erik | http://kerneltrap.org/node/72 |
| 18:22.55 | Maloeran | Seriously, this makes no sense at all. There are POSIX functions to take care of storing sensitive information in RAM |
| 18:23.16 | ``Erik | ... and if people USED them, then os's wouldn't have to step up and cover |
| 18:24.06 | Maloeran | This is a _very_ bad fix. Fix the software, don't hack a slow and patchy solution in the OS |
| 18:24.46 | ``Erik | heh, and it seems to be a hot issue in linux kernel development right now |
| 18:25.23 | ``Erik | (and if the software is designed to break the os? malicious code exists :/ ) |
| 18:26.08 | Maloeran | Okay. Do you have a full-featured and complete memory manager in BRL-CAD already? |
| 18:26.22 | ``Erik | http://lists.apple.com/archives/darwin-development/2003/Apr/msg00227.html has more |
| 18:26.29 | ``Erik | yeah, in libbu |
| 18:26.31 | ``Erik | um |
| 18:26.52 | ``Erik | but the behavior of "lots of allocs and deallocs" is gonna be slow if it's passed to the os... |
| 18:27.02 | Maloeran | Seriously, the OS could bzero() pages as the heap grows, but OSX seems to clear even reused pages ; malloc'ing without expanding the heap |
| 18:27.30 | Maloeran | Normally, malloc() only reaches the OS if the heap has to be extended. Otherwise, it stays entirely in user space |
| 18:27.34 | Maloeran | On a sane and decent OS anyway |
| 18:28.02 | ``Erik | erm, ... vm and wm are different, dude |
| 18:29.13 | ``Erik | (heh, and this is exactly where compacting gc's shine) |
| 18:29.45 | Maloeran | Checking libbu, I only saw red-black tree stuff there last time |
| 18:30.34 | ``Erik | I'm pretty sure the libbu memory management is just portable passthrough stuff, though |
| 18:31.36 | ``Erik | stupid headache *grr* |
| 18:32.00 | Maloeran | I really don't feel like writing a memory manager to handle broken malloc() implementations, but if I must.. |
| 18:32.17 | ``Erik | <-- thinks it's less broken than linux's :( |
| 18:33.03 | Maloeran | Surely you agree that if software deals with sensitive information, there are robust and _efficient_ mechanisms to deal with this, instead of having every malloc() call being zero'ed? |
| 18:33.28 | ``Erik | given the quality of 95% of coders writing 'real' applications, no. I don't. |
| 18:33.34 | Maloeran | malloc()'ed memory is not supposed to be cleared, it's supposed to be fast |
| 18:34.07 | ``Erik | hm, I've never thought of malloc as a fast operation *shrug* if you want fast, allocate a big honkin' heap and do it yourself in that... |
| 18:34.33 | Maloeran | Clearing the new pages as the heap grows would have made a certain sense, but for every malloc call, this is highly absurd |
| 18:34.48 | ``Erik | ... |
| 18:35.00 | ``Erik | you cannot make that statement because of how mmu's work. |
| 18:35.21 | ``Erik | you can free 4k, and then "immediately" alloc 4k, and you are not guaranteed that you got the same 4k back |
| 18:35.33 | ``Erik | you coudl've gotten one of my pages, or a completely different page altogether |
| 18:35.50 | Maloeran | Of course not, but it's likely to be within the heap for the process address space |
| 18:36.11 | ``Erik | ... for the process address space, yes... but not the wired address space |
| 18:36.33 | ``Erik | physical memory doesn't line up to process memory, that's what the mmu does... |
| 18:36.39 | Maloeran | The heap never shrinks, the OS doesn't know that the page is now unused |
| 18:36.59 | ``Erik | erm, which heap? heh |
| 18:37.27 | Maloeran | The heap of the process ; the memory manager is likely to reuse that page and you'll get what you had previously stored there, without ever making a syscall |
| 18:37.28 | ``Erik | free() is to mark a heap as unused so it can be culled... |
| 18:37.43 | ``Erik | and it disassociates it from the wired page |
| 18:37.45 | Maloeran | So the heap can shrink on OSX? It never does on Linux |
| 18:38.56 | Maloeran | That seems to be a logical explanation as to why every malloc() call is zero'ed |
| 18:40.27 | ``Erik | the process heap should be able to shrink on every os :/ |
| 18:40.46 | ``Erik | now the memory address of new allocations is up in the air, but *shrug* |
| 18:42.04 | Maloeran | You can't shrink the heap on Linux. If it grows high and shrink, unused high pages will eventually be put on swap to make room for other processes, and just forgotten |
| 18:42.15 | Maloeran | That design has its flaws too ( the swapping ) |
| 18:42.17 | *** join/#brlcad cadguy (n=butler@bz.bzflag.bz) | |
| 18:42.26 | ``Erik | heh, and eventually oom |
| 18:42.56 | cadguy | Yo! How is everyone? |
| 18:43.00 | ``Erik | (might be why I've seen ugly oom's on linux, it's malloc is broken... O:-) ) |
| 18:43.18 | Maloeran | Good afternoon Lee |
| 18:43.35 | ``Erik | email is sent, lee... subj "Sql" |
| 18:43.36 | Maloeran | BSD's malloc() seems less broken than OSX still, it clears new pages but not the content of every malloc() call |
| 18:43.44 | cadguy | Howdy Maloeran |
| 18:44.06 | Maloeran | Just having a long debate with Erik about why the raytracer's prep is so terribly slow on OSX |
| 18:44.09 | ``Erik | osX only zerofills when the freshly allocated page is touched, as far as I can tell |
| 18:45.26 | Maloeran | Now reading libbu's memory manager, I suppose that's the solution to work around inefficient malloc implementations |
| 18:45.27 | cadguy | Hmm. How many pages are we allocating? Lots? |
| 18:45.40 | Maloeran | Lots of pages, which are often just unused and freed |
| 18:45.57 | Maloeran | malloc() is quite fast on Linux as pages are never cleared |
| 18:45.58 | cadguy | Yes, that's a notorious performance killer. |
| 18:46.09 | cadguy | That's a security issue. |
| 18:46.45 | Maloeran | When dealing with sensitive information, processes can mlock() the memory, there are POSIX functions to take care of that |
| 18:47.25 | Maloeran | But as Erik argued, a dirty and inefficient fix at the OS level seems to be required due to the amount of bad software out there... *shakes head* |
| 18:47.42 | cadguy | The usual technique is to keep a buffer pool if you want to alloc/free a lot to keep the code easy. Then allocate through your own buffer pool. |
| 18:48.31 | ``Erik | *nod* allocate a slew of pages, keep 'free' and 'used' linked lists, when one is freed or allocated, just change which list it lives in |
| 18:48.39 | cadguy | Yea. Lots of lame code mucking around with priviledges. Remember mlock() didn't appear until 4.4BSD. |
| 18:48.41 | Maloeran | Right. I'm checking libbu, but I won't hide that I'm used to deal with an efficient malloc implementation |
| 18:49.13 | ``Erik | if you allocate with nothing in the free list, free more... if you're worried about memory consumption, free() some out of the free list when it reaches a threshhold |
| 18:49.28 | ``Erik | s/efficient/insecure/ :) |
| 18:49.51 | Maloeran | Yes yes, I got that to deal with many small chunks. I haven't got a full memory manager to deal with chunks of all sizes and shapes |
| 18:49.52 | cadguy | No reason to hide. Just be aware that there are space/time/security tradeoffs that different OS's make. |
| 18:50.03 | ``Erik | my bike goes 20kph and stays together, yours goes 30 and kicks the wheels off every 50km |
| 18:50.05 | ``Erik | :D |
| 18:50.52 | Maloeran | :) Eh well, time to write a memory manager then! |
| 18:51.24 | ``Erik | <-- thought that's what mm was supposed to be o.O :) |
| 18:51.56 | Maloeran | It's not a full-blown memory manager, it has efficient handling of packed tiny chunks, balanced trees, etc. |
| 18:52.47 | Maloeran | since Linux's malloc() always performed decently for management of medium to large sized chunks |
| 18:53.26 | cadguy | In general, any time you can avoid a system call, it is worth doing. |
| 18:54.46 | Maloeran | On Linux, free() never shrinks the heap, so malloc() will always remain in user-space unless the heap has to grow. I realize it's quite different on OSX |
| 18:55.36 | cadguy | And different on solaris and other Unix's |
| 19:07.54 | Maloeran | That model really is a challenge for any acceleration structure, the planned second 'prep' pass should improve things a bit... but mostly, ray bundles will |
| 19:08.05 | Maloeran | That and threads |
| 19:09.48 | ``Erik | oohhhhh, rfTraceRays() calls malloc, too |
| 19:11.58 | Maloeran | Only if there are no already allocated 'job' struct in the list, nothing to worry about there |
| 19:15.13 | ``Erik | that dstdir=mathPlanePoint() line (634) is a major contributor to L2 cache misses (27.5%) |
| 19:15.39 | ``Erik | second being line 582 "if(src[linkflags&RF_NODE_AXIS_MASK]<NODE(root)->plane)" at 6.6% |
| 19:16.56 | Maloeran | The prototype had prefetch instructions for caching triangles before the actual tests, that should help |
| 19:17.19 | ``Erik | memory bandwidth looks like, um, around 200-300 MB/s read and 20-30MB/s write |
| 19:17.32 | Maloeran | You know, I really like your profiler :) |
| 19:17.50 | ``Erik | heh, me too, this thing is gnarly |
| 19:18.06 | cadguy | You really should try to pick it up. |
| 19:18.39 | cadguy | Want me to talk with Mark? |
| 19:19.30 | Maloeran | Thanks, just give me 33 hours to receive my first real pay check from Survice assuming the 30 days delay after the end of the month is respected |
| 19:20.19 | ``Erik | you got your travel expenses and per diem all sorted out, correct? |
| 19:21.07 | CIA-9 | BRL-CAD: 03lbutler * 10brlcad/sh/gforge.sh: script for querying a gforge site |
| 19:21.34 | Maloeran | I had no per diem expenses in August, but sure |
| 19:23.24 | *** join/#brlcad IriX64 (n=IriX64@bas3-sudbury98-1168052970.dsl.bell.ca) | |
| 19:23.38 | ``Erik | dude, if you ever do work related travel, the employer should set everything up and take care of all the (reasonable) expenses... |
| 19:24.34 | ``Erik | it's chump change to them, a no brainer investment... |
| 19:27.16 | Maloeran | Ah don't worry, I'll be quite fine. The 30 days delay for a monthly pay is just a bit annoying, after 2-3 months of unpaid vacation anyway ;) |
| 19:27.41 | ``Erik | rtiBatchNsCallback() is your flat shadow-less shader? |
| 19:27.53 | Maloeran | Somewhat, yes |
| 20:57.14 | CIA-9 | BRL-CAD: 03lbutler * 10brlcad/sh/gforge.sh: make script adaptable to host |
| 21:13.00 | Maloeran | Erik, before I write a bunch of code, do you have Hoard handy to see if the memory manager does a better job? |
| 21:13.25 | Maloeran | It might clear pages the BSD way even on OSX |
| 22:43.50 | ``Erik | hoard? nope |
| 23:16.54 | Maloeran | Oh well. Everything but sectors and steps are now allocated by sliced blocks, these chunks of variable size will have their own personal little memory manager |
| 00:24.20 | *** join/#brlcad digitalfredy (n=digitalf@200.71.62.161) | |
| 02:10.52 | *** join/#brlcad danfalck (n=dan@pool-71-111-76-8.ptldor.dsl-w.verizon.net) | |
| 02:15.23 | danfalck | Twingy: you around? |
| 02:30.53 | Twingy | yes |
| 02:30.55 | Twingy | sec |
| 02:31.08 | danfalck | hi |
| 02:31.18 | danfalck | how do you want bugs reported? |
| 02:31.30 | danfalck | I just opened a |
| 02:31.33 | danfalck | new tool |
| 02:31.38 | danfalck | and seg faulted |
| 02:32.50 | danfalck | after inserting a line |
| 02:34.40 | Twingy | for now I'll want you to report directly to me since these are minor and can be quickly fixed |
| 02:34.54 | Twingy | I have made a number of updates over the last 2 days, let me get you the latest, got time? |
| 02:35.06 | danfalck | email or irc? |
| 02:35.09 | Twingy | web |
| 02:35.20 | Twingy | sec |
| 02:35.28 | danfalck | sure |
| 02:35.45 | danfalck | give me the web address this time, email is on another machine |
| 02:36.19 | Twingy | sec |
| 02:36.33 | Twingy | also |
| 02:36.38 | Twingy | tell me what your download rate is |
| 02:36.51 | danfalck | dsl, I'm not sure |
| 02:36.55 | Twingy | no |
| 02:36.57 | Twingy | from me |
| 02:37.00 | danfalck | ok |
| 02:37.26 | danfalck | is the 'download' url live now on your website? |
| 02:38.53 | Twingy | no |
| 02:39.02 | danfalck | ok |
| 02:39.56 | Twingy | I made a raptor motor mount with gcam today |
| 02:40.03 | danfalck | cool |
| 02:40.12 | danfalck | on the Taig? |
| 02:40.16 | Twingy | yep |
| 02:40.21 | Twingy | at work |
| 02:40.43 | danfalck | raptor? |
| 02:40.57 | Twingy | a heli |
| 02:41.03 | danfalck | oh |
| 02:41.25 | Twingy | done downloading? |
| 02:41.37 | danfalck | no, give me the url |
| 02:43.31 | Twingy | got the /msg ? |
| 02:45.38 | Twingy | yes no? |
| 02:45.44 | danfalck | got it |
| 02:45.53 | danfalck | 33-40 KB/s |
| 02:46.00 | Twingy | hum |
| 02:46.11 | danfalck | I'm on a DSL |
| 02:46.13 | Twingy | should be higher |
| 02:46.20 | Twingy | I have 96kB upstream |
| 02:46.39 | danfalck | ok, going to untar the file, compile, and try it out. |
| 02:46.39 | Twingy | anyway, compile and run |
| 02:46.41 | danfalck | thanks |
| 02:46.50 | Twingy | yah, then we'll step through your first bug |
| 02:47.43 | Twingy | I wonder if I should video tape the solar installation |
| 02:50.44 | danfalck | in the middle of 'make' |
| 02:50.49 | Twingy | k |
| 02:51.00 | Twingy | I'll fire mine up and we'll move through the same steps together |
| 02:51.38 | danfalck | once things are the way that you want them, can I make a binary that others using Ubuntu 6.10 could run? |
| 02:51.40 | Twingy | btw, I'm thinking about offer my mill for remote use for a small fee |
| 02:51.56 | Twingy | sure, that would be helpful |
| 02:52.16 | danfalck | which files would be transferable? the gcam bin? |
| 02:52.25 | Twingy | either that or the gcode |
| 02:52.34 | Twingy | or dxf |
| 02:52.51 | danfalck | I just know that there are a lot of guys using Ubuntu Dapper for EMC right now |
| 02:53.00 | Twingy | k |
| 02:53.08 | Twingy | I'm still using turbocnc |
| 02:53.26 | danfalck | you ought to try out emc |
| 02:53.42 | danfalck | you would probably really get into ti |
| 02:53.43 | danfalck | it |
| 02:53.47 | Twingy | why sort of capability does it give me that turbocnc doesn't already? |
| 02:53.53 | danfalck | a lot \ |
| 02:53.54 | Twingy | *what |
| 02:54.03 | danfalck | cutter comp for one |
| 02:54.08 | Twingy | explain |
| 02:54.40 | danfalck | you can write a tool path in gcode that uses a nominal center line for a particular diameter of tool |
| 02:54.49 | danfalck | if you use a different sized tool |
| 02:55.04 | danfalck | you can put the diameter of the tool in a table |
| 02:55.17 | danfalck | and the control will compensate and cut the path correctly |
| 02:55.25 | Twingy | gcam does that... |
| 02:55.48 | Twingy | and turbocnc does that as well |
| 02:55.53 | Twingy | so either way I'm covered |
| 02:56.17 | danfalck | sorry, didn't know they had it yet |
| 02:56.22 | danfalck | do you enter the diameter values for you end mills? |
| 02:56.28 | Twingy | I don't want to use emc just because it looks like a fancy gui based program |
| 02:56.37 | Twingy | yes, that's the "Tool" block |
| 02:56.42 | Twingy | when you create a project |
| 02:56.48 | Twingy | <PROTECTED> |
| 02:57.06 | Twingy | eventually I'll add a tab for it |
| 02:57.20 | Twingy | for tool changing and feed over-ride |
| 02:57.22 | danfalck | I used emc in 1999 when the gui wasn't so good |
| 02:57.29 | danfalck | and it worked very well then |
| 02:57.40 | Twingy | I don't need a fancy g-code processor |
| 02:57.53 | danfalck | ran 3 machines with it and made a lot of money doing engraving and milling |
| 02:57.53 | Twingy | something that lets me jog, control velocity, acceleration, and interprets g-code |
| 02:58.07 | danfalck | all the gui stuff has been added on in the last 4 years. |
| 02:58.10 | Twingy | 90% of turbocnc I don't use |
| 02:58.21 | Twingy | and probly 95% of emc I wouldn't use |
| 02:58.25 | danfalck | ok |
| 02:58.43 | danfalck | I plan on redoing my Centroid control with emc in the future |
| 02:58.45 | Twingy | I restrict myself to the very fundamental g-codes |
| 02:58.58 | Twingy | that way it's guaranteed to work everywhere |
| 02:59.00 | danfalck | as well as some very large machines at work- kitamura mills |
| 02:59.12 | danfalck | emc has plc built in |
| 02:59.15 | Twingy | even on a high school kids g-code processor that only does a few commands |
| 02:59.21 | danfalck | tool changers can be implemented |
| 03:00.02 | Twingy | that's all g-code |
| 03:00.09 | Twingy | supported by turbocnc... |
| 03:00.12 | danfalck | emc can control hexapods |
| 03:00.23 | danfalck | rotary axis |
| 03:00.30 | Twingy | turbocnc can do rotary... |
| 03:00.33 | danfalck | you name it, it can be done |
| 03:00.50 | Twingy | I gather I'll really only care about emc when I buy a $100k+ machine |
| 03:00.54 | Twingy | that has all the bells and whistles |
| 03:01.03 | danfalck | it can output to true servoes using DA cards |
| 03:01.11 | danfalck | well, maybe. |
| 03:01.20 | Twingy | k, let's move into gcam, getting late |
| 03:01.26 | danfalck | you might someday get really interested in it |
| 03:01.29 | danfalck | ok |
| 03:01.37 | danfalck | still in 'make' stage |
| 03:01.39 | danfalck | hm |
| 03:01.44 | Twingy | whu? |
| 03:01.48 | Twingy | you on a 386? |
| 03:01.52 | danfalck | this one's taking longer than I remember |
| 03:01.53 | danfalck | no |
| 03:01.57 | danfalck | 1.0 ghz amd |
| 03:02.04 | Twingy | should compile in 10 seconds |
| 03:02.35 | danfalck | I see an error about missing automake-1.7 something |
| 03:02.45 | danfalck | i'll kill it and try again |
| 03:02.46 | Twingy | kill autom4te.cache |
| 03:02.56 | Twingy | and autoreconf -vis && ./configure |
| 03:03.19 | danfalck | ok |
| 03:03.37 | danfalck | rm the whole directory? |
| 03:03.46 | danfalck | autom4.... |
| 03:04.33 | Twingy | rm -rf autom4te.cache |
| 03:06.23 | Twingy | I'm running gcam/turbocnc on a PIII-450 w/ 256MB at work |
| 03:06.32 | Twingy | runs great |
| 03:07.13 | danfalck | .deps/gcode_util.Plo' has modification time 3.5e+03 s in the future |
| 03:07.15 | Twingy | using an AMD semrpon 1.4GHz in the garage |
| 03:07.21 | danfalck | running into warnings |
| 03:07.26 | danfalck | during make |
| 03:07.27 | Twingy | don't worry about warning |
| 03:09.06 | danfalck | yeh this is weird. it's taking way too long compared to the last one |
| 03:09.30 | Twingy | no problems here... |
| 03:09.35 | danfalck | /bin/sh /home/dan/CAM/gcam3/gcam/missing --run automake-1.7 --gnu libgcode/Makefile |
| 03:09.35 | danfalck | cd .. && /bin/sh ./config.status libgcode/Makefile depfiles |
| 03:09.35 | danfalck | config.status: creating libgcode/Makefile |
| 03:09.35 | danfalck | config.status: executing depfiles commands |
| 03:09.36 | danfalck | make[2]: Leaving directory `/home/dan/CAM/gcam3/gcam/libgcode' |
| 03:09.36 | danfalck | make[2]: Entering directory `/home/dan/CAM/gcam3/gcam/libgcode' |
| 03:09.38 | danfalck | make[2]: Warning: File `.deps/gcode_util.Plo' has modification time 3.3e+03 s in the future |
| 03:09.49 | Twingy | just sitting there? |
| 03:09.55 | Twingy | do this |
| 03:09.57 | Twingy | rm -rf .deps |
| 03:10.01 | danfalck | looks like it's in a loop |
| 03:10.04 | danfalck | ok will do |
| 03:10.19 | danfalck | did it |
| 03:10.23 | danfalck | what next/ |
| 03:10.26 | danfalck | ? |
| 03:10.39 | Twingy | 24s to compile on AMD64 2.2Ghz over nfs |
| 03:10.45 | danfalck | throw away the cache directory |
| 03:10.45 | Twingy | autoreconf -vis |
| 03:10.49 | Twingy | yea |
| 03:10.56 | Twingy | ./configure |
| 03:10.57 | Twingy | make |
| 03:14.27 | Twingy | working? |
| 03:14.36 | danfalck | trying something |
| 03:21.45 | danfalck | sorry, still problems |
| 03:21.56 | danfalck | tried automake 1.8 |
| 03:22.01 | danfalck | and got errors |
| 03:22.04 | danfalck | went back to 1.7 |
| 03:22.10 | danfalck | different errors |
| 03:23.12 | Twingy | k |
| 03:23.29 | Twingy | I'm using 1.9.6 |
| 03:23.34 | Twingy | you should get 1.9 automake |
| 03:23.39 | danfalck | ok will do |
| 03:23.49 | Twingy | and autoconf 259 |
| 03:24.24 | danfalck | got 2.59 |
| 03:24.34 | danfalck | doing 1.9 now |
| 03:24.56 | Twingy | k |
| 03:25.13 | danfalck | using synaptic. a lot of times it's not very up to date and I have to go get the source |
| 03:25.25 | danfalck | we'll see how it does |
| 03:26.20 | Twingy | k, keep me posted |
| 03:26.37 | danfalck | ok. I'll work through it and get back with you tommorrow |
| 03:27.12 | Twingy | m'kay... |
| 03:31.34 | danfalck | can make get screwed up with the time that the file was created? |
| 03:31.46 | danfalck | it keeps saying the file was created in the future |
| 03:31.54 | danfalck | you're on the east coast right? |
| 03:32.09 | danfalck | g directory `/home/dan/CAM/gcam3/gcam/libgcode' |
| 03:32.09 | danfalck | make[2]: Entering directory `/home/dan/CAM/gcam3/gcam/libgcode' |
| 03:32.10 | danfalck | make[2]: Warning: File `.deps/gcode_util.Plo' has modification time 1.9e+03 s in the future |
| 03:33.16 | Maloeran | touch the file(s) or modify it |
| 03:33.44 | danfalck | thanks |
| 03:39.05 | danfalck | that was it |
| 03:39.12 | danfalck | timestamp problem |
| 03:39.36 | danfalck | compiled and gcam works now |
| 03:45.05 | Twingy | k |
| 03:45.09 | Twingy | ready to step through? |
| 03:45.19 | danfalck | yes I've been playing with it |
| 03:45.27 | danfalck | removing lines doesn't crash it now |
| 03:46.39 | danfalck | do you want to do the private msg thing for a short tutorial? |
| 03:46.52 | danfalck | or does it matter here? |
| 03:47.14 | Twingy | here is fine |
| 03:47.30 | danfalck | ok, I start by creating a new project |
| 03:47.33 | Twingy | yep |
| 03:47.36 | danfalck | insert a sketch |
| 03:47.42 | Twingy | after a tool |
| 03:47.50 | danfalck | ok after the tool |
| 03:47.56 | danfalck | yep got it |
| 03:48.01 | Twingy | otherwise the sketch doesn't know what tool |
| 03:48.08 | danfalck | then start inserting lines and arcs |
| 03:48.13 | Twingy | yes |
| 03:48.28 | danfalck | whoops, just seg faulted |
| 03:48.31 | Twingy | insert lines and arcs into the extrusion to give it depth |
| 03:48.39 | Twingy | can you repeat? |
| 03:48.54 | danfalck | ok, I inserted a tool |
| 03:48.59 | danfalck | inserted sketch |
| 03:49.05 | danfalck | inserted 8 lines |
| 03:49.05 | Twingy | a second tool? |
| 03:49.11 | danfalck | removed 8 lines |
| 03:49.19 | danfalck | moved cursor up to sketch |
| 03:49.31 | danfalck | tried to insert another line and it seg faulted |
| 03:49.37 | Twingy | testing |
| 03:49.37 | danfalck | I will open it again |
| 03:49.57 | danfalck | creating project |
| 03:50.06 | danfalck | tool change is in there automatically |
| 03:50.15 | danfalck | inserting sketch |
| 03:50.43 | Twingy | I did insert sketch, insert 8 lines, remove 8 lines, remove sketch, no crash |
| 03:50.44 | danfalck | insert line |
| 03:50.49 | danfalck | insert line |
| 03:50.53 | danfalck | removed them both |
| 03:50.58 | danfalck | tried to insert line |
| 03:51.00 | danfalck | crash |
| 03:51.08 | Twingy | what was selected when inserting the line |
| 03:51.21 | danfalck | I'll try again |
| 03:51.35 | danfalck | sorry didn't catch what was selected |
| 03:51.41 | danfalck | will watch more carefully |
| 03:52.51 | danfalck | ok, I think I know what happened |
| 03:53.03 | danfalck | nothing was selected when I tried to insert the line |
| 03:53.09 | danfalck | let me try again |
| 03:53.12 | Twingy | k |
| 03:53.21 | danfalck | yes that's it |
| 03:53.34 | danfalck | if nothing is selected and you try to insert it crashes |
| 03:53.39 | Maloeran | You should run it in gdb to have a backtrace at least |
| 03:53.51 | Twingy | yep |
| 03:53.53 | Twingy | just noticed that |
| 03:54.00 | Twingy | I'll fix that |
| 03:54.06 | danfalck | ok |
| 03:54.12 | Twingy | something should always be selected |
| 03:54.13 | danfalck | I'll be more careful now |
| 03:54.26 | Twingy | remove needs to select something after it removes |
| 03:55.37 | danfalck | how about adding this: when completing a line segment, instead of having to click on the Update parameters button, let 'return' also update the line |
| 03:56.01 | danfalck | not bad, but convenient |
| 03:56.04 | Twingy | yea, bunch more gui code |
| 03:56.12 | Twingy | I'd rather get rid of the button |
| 03:56.19 | Twingy | and make each widget event update |
| 03:56.20 | danfalck | yep |
| 03:56.25 | Twingy | but that doubles gui code |
| 03:57.19 | Twingy | here's something for you to try |
| 03:57.25 | Twingy | make a bowl |
| 03:57.35 | danfalck | ok, can I load the sample |
| 03:57.39 | Twingy | no |
| 03:57.46 | danfalck | darn |
| 03:57.48 | Twingy | see if you can figure it out |
| 03:58.40 | Maloeran | Do you provide a 3d view of the result? |
| 03:59.00 | Twingy | yes |
| 03:59.09 | Maloeran | *nods* Nice |
| 03:59.21 | danfalck | I can get top and side views, but haven't found the iso view |
| 03:59.32 | Twingy | if you click on the sketch |
| 03:59.41 | Twingy | use the right mouse button to rotate |
| 03:59.58 | Twingy | you'll see it in 3d if you have extrusions applied |
| 04:00.06 | danfalck | ok now I see it |
| 04:00.24 | Twingy | Render is currently broken |
| 04:00.33 | Twingy | so it'll give you wrong results |
| 04:02.16 | Twingy | once bore, bolt holes, and bezier get in there it should prove to be quite powerful |
| 04:05.06 | Twingy | ok, I think I can fix remove now |
| 04:05.54 | danfalck | ok, had to cheat , but I see how you did the bowl.... |
| 04:06.06 | danfalck | arc inserted after extrusion |
| 04:06.17 | danfalck | then arc inserted below that |
| 04:07.00 | danfalck | i like the extrusion resolution feature |
| 04:08.17 | Twingy | good |
| 04:08.44 | Twingy | I think people will find that modeling with extrusions is quite powerful |
| 04:09.25 | danfalck | that is very handy |
| 04:09.49 | Twingy | tried generating g-code yet? |
| 04:10.09 | danfalck | I have previously, with no problem |
| 04:10.14 | Twingy | k |
| 04:10.16 | danfalck | let me do it with this bowl |
| 04:10.49 | Twingy | oh heh, I forgot to fix the bowl |
| 04:11.21 | danfalck | looks ok |
| 04:11.39 | Twingy | it's totally wrong |
| 04:11.46 | Twingy | it doesn't look like a bowl to me |
| 04:11.54 | danfalck | just need to have some way of setting up safety blocks and other machine specific code |
| 04:12.04 | Maloeran | Going to build your own aluminium bowls anytime soon? :) |
| 04:12.07 | danfalck | I have a bowl here : ) |
| 04:12.08 | Twingy | safety blocks? |
| 04:12.22 | danfalck | G90 G17 G49 etc... |
| 04:12.29 | Twingy | for what purpose |
| 04:12.33 | danfalck | code that resets machine, just in case.... |
| 04:13.05 | danfalck | say you ran you machine in MDI mode, while setting up the part and you left something dangling out there such as a G91 incrementa command |
| 04:13.16 | danfalck | it could save you from a physical crash |
| 04:13.30 | danfalck | incremental / incrementa |
| 04:13.37 | Twingy | I don't do incremental |
| 04:13.43 | Twingy | and that's what the render is for |
| 04:13.45 | Twingy | if you see something bogus |
| 04:13.50 | Twingy | you fix it before getting to the machine |
| 04:13.59 | Twingy | if you see your end mill crashing 5 feet below the table |
| 04:14.01 | Twingy | you don't run it |
| 04:14.01 | danfalck | I don't either , but being able to taylor the code to the machine is good practice in industry |
| 04:14.15 | Twingy | there is a "Code" block |
| 04:14.21 | Twingy | I don't have it exposed right now |
| 04:14.27 | danfalck | ok |
| 04:14.33 | Twingy | you can insert those at your own risk |
| 04:14.55 | danfalck | to me a good text editor for the g-code is worth a lot |
| 04:14.58 | Twingy | what are the params on your extrusion arc |
| 04:15.00 | Twingy | for the bowl |
| 04:15.28 | danfalck | extrusion arc is at X 0, Y0 |
| 04:15.32 | danfalck | Radius .5 |
| 04:15.40 | danfalck | start angle 180 |
| 04:15.45 | danfalck | sweep -90 |
| 04:15.58 | Twingy | eh |
| 04:16.04 | danfalck | other arc is at position x 1 y 1 |
| 04:16.06 | Twingy | upside down bowl? |
| 04:16.09 | danfalck | radius |
| 04:16.11 | danfalck | yep |
| 04:16.18 | Twingy | oh heh |
| 04:16.22 | danfalck | I was just thrashing around |
| 04:16.23 | Twingy | that should be: |
| 04:16.32 | danfalck | it's my upside down cnc router |
| 04:16.47 | danfalck | tipped the bowl over |
| 04:16.59 | Twingy | 0, 0, 0.5, 0, -90 |
| 04:17.04 | Twingy | if you want the fixed bowl |
| 04:17.13 | danfalck | that fixed it ;) |
| 04:17.23 | Twingy | heh |
| 04:17.31 | Twingy | I want to build a larger mill in gcam |
| 04:17.35 | Twingy | using my taig |
| 04:17.38 | Twingy | 2x the size |
| 04:17.56 | danfalck | I could sell you mine , but shipping would be expensive |
| 04:17.59 | Twingy | broken up in many parts |
| 04:18.10 | Twingy | no, I want people making their own mills |
| 04:18.14 | Twingy | start with a taig |
| 04:18.20 | Twingy | and build a super precise monster mill |
| 04:18.41 | danfalck | I used to really be into that - melting my own aluminum , making the lathe |
| 04:19.03 | danfalck | but then people wanted me to make other parts for them for money |
| 04:19.05 | Twingy | I need to buy magnesium |
| 04:19.23 | Twingy | I haven't gotten to the part where people will pay me for parts yet |
| 04:19.38 | Twingy | I would like to do that in spare time |
| 04:20.23 | Twingy | in the mean time I'll try and sell some rocket nozzles |
| 04:21.07 | danfalck | the purchase and modification of the tools/toys can be addictive |
| 04:21.14 | danfalck | my garage is full of them |
| 04:21.21 | Twingy | that's good so long as it serves a utility |
| 04:21.46 | Twingy | I am missing 2 tools |
| 04:21.56 | Twingy | a 24" or 36" lathe, and a band saw |
| 04:22.14 | Twingy | the band saw I can afford relatively soon |
| 04:22.41 | danfalck | ok turned the bowl right side up |
| 04:22.53 | Twingy | I am going to buy a sliding table for my 3/4 HP drill press and use it to plane with a 1/2" end mill |
| 04:23.03 | Maloeran | You two need to move next to each other ;), or in a neighbourhood of aluminium melters |
| 04:23.11 | danfalck | extrusion arc is now: X .5 Y 0 R .5 Start angle 270 Sweep 90 |
| 04:23.28 | Twingy | 0, 0, 0.5, 0, -90 |
| 04:23.31 | Twingy | works too |
| 04:24.17 | Twingy | I'm not going to buy a 1 ton mill just for planing |
| 04:24.21 | danfalck | Twingy: are you a brlcad developer? |
| 04:24.25 | Twingy | err 1/2 ton mill |
| 04:24.31 | Twingy | danfalck, used to be |
| 04:24.42 | Twingy | I do robots now |
| 04:24.47 | danfalck | cool |
| 04:25.03 | danfalck | do you program for a living? |
| 04:25.18 | Twingy | used to, now it's only half of what I do |
| 04:25.31 | danfalck | do you do robotics at work? |
| 04:25.35 | Twingy | yah |
| 04:25.38 | danfalck | nice |
| 04:25.50 | danfalck | automation for industry? |
| 04:26.11 | Twingy | surveillance type stuff |
| 04:26.23 | Maloeran | Or autonomous shooting targets on wheels, I thought |
| 04:26.39 | danfalck | ok |
| 04:26.40 | Twingy | that too |
| 04:27.17 | Twingy | whatever is fun |
| 04:27.20 | danfalck | I do tooling design and some machine design |
| 04:27.33 | Twingy | when this stuff gets boring in a few years I'll move into biology or chem |
| 04:27.50 | danfalck | robotics boring? |
| 04:27.53 | danfalck | never |
| 04:28.16 | Twingy | I don't like to stick in a field once I hit the point of diminish returns |
| 04:28.31 | Twingy | things become too predictable |
| 04:28.47 | Twingy | when I wake up and know what I'll be doing 1 year from now it's time to find a new job |
| 04:30.03 | Twingy | the only difficult part with that is having to 'prove' yourself to the new people you work with |
| 04:30.24 | Twingy | people sorta look at you like you're useless for the first few weeks |
| 04:30.38 | Twingy | something to expect when moving around alot |
| 04:30.39 | Maloeran | No pronounced interest in raytracing hardware design yet? ;) Lee seemed interested, and Survice surprisingly offered backing on this crazy project |
| 04:31.09 | Twingy | Maloeran, I am interested in lots of things, ray-tracing hardware included, but list my interested in order of priority |
| 04:31.34 | Maloeran | Right, and I guess it isn't too close to the top |
| 04:31.36 | Twingy | ray-tracing is a communications medium, it puts pixels on the screen |
| 04:31.50 | Twingy | I know what I'll be doing in 5 years from now if I continue with ray-tracing |
| 04:31.59 | Twingy | not interested in that rat-race |
| 04:32.10 | danfalck | Twingy: could I try to DCC a file to you? (not sure if I can get through my network) |
| 04:32.13 | Twingy | bottom line is it puts colored pixels on my screen |
| 04:32.15 | danfalck | screenshot |
| 04:32.23 | Twingy | post it on a web server |
| 04:32.27 | danfalck | ok |
| 04:33.35 | Twingy | Maloeran, I'm a bit of a cynic when it comes to work |
| 04:33.50 | Twingy | Maloeran, I have no real need for ray-tracing for my personal objectives atm |
| 04:34.22 | Twingy | I do have a need to build parts though |
| 04:34.29 | Twingy | so now I do that at work |
| 04:34.57 | Twingy | I may get to a point where I need to do fluid simulations and hop over to CISD for a while |
| 04:35.31 | Maloeran | And no need to do radar signatures or anything else that would involve ray-tracing? ;) All right, understood |
| 04:35.44 | Twingy | not at the moment, no |
| 04:36.19 | Twingy | bottom line is it doesn't accomplish anything I want done right now |
| 04:38.00 | Twingy | I think remove is fixed, testing |
| 04:38.10 | Maloeran | The way this is going, the most interested people are Kutulu and a norwegian programmer. I suppose that could work even on the internet |
| 04:38.27 | Twingy | of course it can |
| 04:38.43 | Twingy | remember, when you are done your ray-tracing phase, I want to work with you on a project |
| 04:39.29 | Maloeran | Right. That's something I'm quite interested to as well |
| 04:39.43 | Maloeran | I just never explored hardware design before so it has a certain appeal |
| 04:41.24 | Twingy | take notes on the epistemological patterns you recognize during the next several years |
| 04:41.40 | Twingy | hardware is part 2 of the project |
| 04:42.37 | danfalck | Twingy: http://www.2dadventure.com/ags/dan's_screenshot_092806.png |
| 04:42.45 | danfalck | simple, but ther it is |
| 04:42.55 | danfalck | there |
| 04:43.37 | Twingy | little outside your workspace no? |
| 04:44.09 | danfalck | yep a little large |
| 04:44.13 | danfalck | sorry |
| 04:44.40 | Twingy | I'll fix that |
| 04:44.55 | Twingy | after I get preferences menu working |
| 04:50.06 | Twingy | tomorrow I hope to have bolt holes done |
| 04:51.11 | danfalck | I need to do some reading. I'll chat with you later. thanks |
| 04:51.21 | Twingy | k, thank you |
| 04:55.52 | Twingy | remove is fixed |
| 05:20.17 | danfalck | good night |
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| 21:20.47 | archivist | a bit like caches, get it wrong and they slow you down |
| 21:22.08 | Maloeran | Or drive you into subtle and difficult to track memory corruption somewhere |
| 21:24.28 | archivist | I did a map program years ago in turbo pascal, cached the map in blocks, 64 needed accross the page but could only fit 63 in memory so EVERY block/line was a cache fail |
| 21:25.44 | Maloeran | Mmhm, sounds like fun too |
| 21:27.52 | archivist | one learns to grab enough space after that, re organising the map data didnt help either |
| 21:28.49 | archivist | this is way back in 80286 days or maybe earlier |
| 21:29.54 | Maloeran | Neat. I never really knew anything prior to 80386 |
| 21:31.23 | archivist | it drew a circular profile of a section of the map to check line of sight for radio work |
| 21:33.25 | Maloeran | May I ask if you are involved in brl-cad or an user of the software? |
| 21:34.38 | archivist | will be a user when a few things get done |
| 21:35.47 | archivist | eg when its a solidworks killer and as easy to use |
| 22:10.29 | Maloeran | Erik, seems a full-featured memory manager on top of malloc for medium-large chunks improves performance even on Linux |
| 22:11.07 | Maloeran | I expect the gain to be much more dramatic on platforms with an overzealous free() like OSX |
| 22:15.06 | Maloeran | How portable are brk()/sbrk()? It's still relying on malloc() under the hood |
| 22:54.26 | Twingy | went up on the roof twice today, the anchor bolt and chain are up and the pvc conduits are cut |
| 22:58.26 | Twingy | two of the purchases I made today were $6.66 and $11.11 |
| 23:02.16 | Twingy | not gonna go for -10,000? |
| 23:02.28 | Maloeran | I could try but I don't think they'll let me :) |
| 23:02.39 | Twingy | do you get an overdraft charge? |
| 23:03.00 | Maloeran | Unsure what overdraft means, but there are interests of course |
| 23:03.05 | Twingy | bank of america charges you $30 if you go below $0.00 |
| 23:03.16 | Twingy | for every day I think |
| 23:03.39 | ``Erik | mal: performance gain by customizing memory management is a classic angle... |
| 23:03.40 | Maloeran | Eh no, I can go down to -5000CAD without problems but interests to pay |
| 23:04.06 | Maloeran | I'm aware of that for tiny packed chunks, Erik, I didn't think I could gain anything from managing huge chunks of variable and random sizes |
| 23:04.35 | ``Erik | your pattern is extremely rapid... and in general, malloc and free are not cheap operations :) |
| 23:05.34 | Maloeran | Anyhow, I gained about 7% of preparation time on Linux. That'll probably be in the hundred percents on the OSX malloc thing |
| 23:08.51 | Maloeran | I don't suppose it would be acceptable for me to play with brk()/sbrk() directly, unfortunate |
| 23:51.40 | ``Erik | sbrk and brk are, uh, old school... modern implementations are hacks on normal malloc... |
| 23:53.05 | Maloeran | Old school? It's either growing the heap or using mmap, not many other ways to allocate memory |
| 23:53.48 | ``Erik | sbrk and brk are assuming the notions of segment based memory |
| 23:53.54 | ``Erik | we all use paged memory these days... |
| 23:54.05 | ``Erik | things are different, dude... linux will catch up some day ;) |
| 23:54.45 | ``Erik | (bear in mind... linux is mostly designed around 80's low end ideology) |
| 23:55.14 | Maloeran | Linearly growing the address space by brk() is usually quite reasonable, for most needs |
| 23:56.04 | ``Erik | growing address space is reasonable... linearly via brk() symantics? that's, uh... obsolete. |
| 23:56.57 | Maloeran | Otherwise, you can allocate pages by mmap() wherever you want in the address space, I suppose that can be handy to avoid synchronisation when you got many cores around |
| 23:58.10 | ``Erik | dude... mmu's changed a lot. :( |
| 23:58.51 | Maloeran | Maybe I'm outdated, the last time I wrote some kind of OS was on a 486 |
| 23:59.11 | Maloeran | I read Linux memory manager later on, but you claim that's outdated too |
| 23:59.31 | ``Erik | 486 had a real mmu and could do full-on paged access |
| 23:59.52 | Maloeran | Indeed |
| 00:01.22 | ``Erik | I would recommend procuring a non-linux machine... be it private procurement, dual boot on existing hw, or convincing the company to supply you... |
| 00:01.56 | ``Erik | given your interest in shark, I'd ask the company about shipping you a g[45] based mac... |
| 00:02.01 | Maloeran | FreeBSD then? That'll install on the desktop |
| 00:02.06 | Maloeran | Or OSX *shivers* |
| 00:02.43 | ``Erik | in your dicussions with the company... I use a dual g5 osX tiger tower as my daily machine... |
| 00:03.02 | ``Erik | and I'm the one on the hook to tell arl "aye" or "nay" on your progress |
| 00:03.21 | ``Erik | so with that argument, you might be able to get a free dual g5 tower out of the company... |
| 00:03.22 | ``Erik | :) |
| 00:03.43 | Maloeran | Understood :) |
| 00:04.09 | ``Erik | heh, don't be scared of me :) |
| 00:04.26 | Maloeran | I don't really see how G4/G5 hardware could be a significant target though, I understand about the OSX part |
| 00:04.27 | ``Erik | I mean, I'm installing X on my dual opteron... :) |
| 00:04.48 | ``Erik | erm |
| 00:04.50 | ``Erik | quad, rather |
| 00:05.02 | ``Erik | I'm just noting what I have on my desk |
| 00:05.13 | ``Erik | and, uh, it happens to have better support for profiling... O:-) |
| 00:06.32 | ``Erik | (also bear in mind... company $'s are on a far different scale than you&me dollars...) |
| 00:06.34 | Maloeran | True, I needed a full memory manager anyway. I'm presently hesitating about the way to priotirize lower blocks in order to allow blocks to be freed when memory use drops |
| 00:07.31 | ``Erik | personally, I believe that: the greater variety of hw and os you have available; the better software you are able to produce. |
| 00:08.09 | ``Erik | if you want, either lee or myself will talk to the company to ensure that you are adequately equiped |
| 00:08.50 | Maloeran | Thanks but don't bother them. The pay is quite enough, once I receive it anyway |
| 00:09.17 | ``Erik | ... |
| 00:09.23 | ``Erik | dude, they could send you half a dozen machines without blinking... |
| 00:12.15 | Maloeran | I don't need that though. I would be very satisfied with just the pay to acquire what I need, really |
| 00:14.08 | Maloeran | Any thoughts on priotirizing memory blocks to allow some to be freed? I just aimed for a "best fit" allocation, but memory use then obviously remains high after use |
| 00:14.34 | ``Erik | it's a topic of "OS" research... |
| 00:14.53 | ``Erik | a guess at lru or mru would probably be "adequate" |
| 00:21.51 | Maloeran | realloc() does not garantee to preserve data in place if you shrink, which I often found annoying ; fortunately that one does |
| 01:01.13 | ``Erik | realloc doesn't guarantee to preserve data in place period. |
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| 03:47.02 | Twingy | hi dan |
| 03:51.54 | danfalck | Twingy: hi |
| 03:52.04 | Twingy | oh, hi dan |
| 03:52.14 | Twingy | I just finished bolt holes |
| 03:52.17 | danfalck | cool |
| 03:52.30 | Twingy | I am going to add Duplicate on Sunday |
| 03:52.32 | danfalck | I did a bolt hole calculator in python for my stuff here |
| 03:52.41 | Twingy | and Rotation angle into Sketch |
| 03:52.43 | danfalck | tkinter gui |
| 03:53.05 | Twingy | Bolt Hole goes in a Sketch |
| 03:53.19 | Twingy | so you can have your extrusion applied to each hole |
| 03:53.26 | Twingy | i.e. give each on a taper |
| 03:53.55 | Twingy | or a recess to do flush mounting |
| 03:54.05 | danfalck | can you output drilling canned cycles ie G81 |
| 03:54.16 | Twingy | is that pecking? |
| 03:54.25 | danfalck | just straight drilling |
| 03:54.36 | danfalck | pecking is G82 |
| 03:54.54 | Twingy | erm |
| 03:54.59 | Twingy | not sure what 81 does for you |
| 03:55.15 | danfalck | if you have big machine, it will do it |
| 03:55.16 | Twingy | specify hole locations for drilling |
| 03:55.23 | Twingy | do what? |
| 03:55.38 | Twingy | grab a drill bit? |
| 03:55.45 | danfalck | drill without pecking, depends on material, coolant etc |
| 03:55.55 | Twingy | I just mill the holes |
| 03:56.56 | Twingy | welp, got to get to bed for solar installation tomorrow |
| 03:57.03 | Twingy | night |
| 03:57.05 | danfalck | talk to you later |
| 03:57.07 | danfalck | have fun |
| 15:43.56 | Maloeran | Hey Erik, please share the results if you try the new prep on OSX, I would be interested to know if the memory manager fixed the slowness |
| 16:01.06 | Maloeran | It's 3.5 seconds on the M1 here, I should be able to get that to about 2 seconds |
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| 19:29.49 | ``Erik | hum, on my 1.25 g4 lappie, the prep took 36.6 seconds with the latest code, mal |
| 19:56.33 | Maloeran | Gah. |
| 19:56.57 | Maloeran | And that's on the M1 model? *grumbles* |
| 19:58.28 | Maloeran | Was it an improvement in any way at least?... Do you think you can put up any new figures on where the time is being spent? This is puzzling |
| 20:02.41 | Maloeran | I guess the assumption of an overzealous free() that releases pages constantly, just to allocate them again which require zero'ing them, was wrong |
| 20:03.58 | Maloeran | My 1.8ghz Sempron takes 5 seconds |
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| 04:07.24 | livid | hello |
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| 23:45.48 | jessi | I feel foolish, and need help installing brlcad on linux :'( |
| 23:46.08 | dtidrow_work | should be a piece of cake |
| 23:47.07 | jessi | Well, I dont know were to CD to. :/ |
| 23:47.16 | Maloeran | ./configure --prefix=/usr && make && make install ? |
| 23:47.30 | jessi | just type that in without cding anything? |
| 23:47.51 | Maloeran | Type that from the brlcad-something directly after unpacking the archive |
| 23:47.57 | dtidrow_work | I take it you untarred the tarball already? |
| 23:48.06 | jessi | Yes |
| 23:48.26 | Maloeran | Then type that from the newly created brlcad-* directory |
| 23:48.28 | dtidrow_work | eg. 'tar xvjf brlcad-7.8.2.tar.bz2' - will create a 'brlcad-7.8.2 directory |
| 23:49.17 | dtidrow_work | so just cd into that, and run './configure' |
| 23:49.42 | dtidrow_work | then 'make' once cinfigure is finished |
| 23:49.56 | dtidrow_work | configure (damn fingers....) |
| 23:51.24 | Maloeran | Some distributions don't put /usr/local stuff in default paths, hence why I suggested --prefix |
| 23:52.03 | dtidrow_work | ah - ./configure worked fine for me on FC4 :-) |
| 23:52.26 | jessi | I am on ubuntu :/ |
| 23:52.53 | Maloeran | Ouch, ouch. I think you'll have serious problems compiling anything without installing dozens of "developper" package |
| 23:53.04 | dtidrow_work | haven't had a chance to work with it yet, though I may stick it on my work laptop soon |
| 23:53.05 | jessi | I installed those |
| 23:53.34 | jessi | I would rather be using BSD, but I have a ton of files and dont want to lose them. |
| 23:53.44 | jessi | and too many to conventionally save onto disks |
| 23:55.15 | jessi | Oh, I have been tricked. D: |
| 23:55.34 | jessi | I had to extract one file, then another from that file to get some of the make stuff. |
| 23:59.07 | jessi | Thanks a ton. <3 |
| 02:41.47 | *** join/#brlcad LibertyTrooper (n=LibertyT@wsip-24-234-123-169.lv.lv.cox.net) | |
| 02:41.58 | LibertyTrooper | Hello |
| 02:42.03 | LibertyTrooper | Anyone home? |
| 02:44.08 | Twingy | Jeep Liberty, Isuzu Trooper? |
| 02:44.27 | LibertyTrooper | Libertarian in a Honda |
| 02:45.09 | LibertyTrooper | Actually, I have a password program that I also use to generate forum nick's. |
| 02:45.16 | LibertyTrooper | And this is what it came up with. |
| 02:46.00 | LibertyTrooper | Are you familiar with running BRLCad on OSX? |
| 02:57.39 | brlcad | several are |
| 02:57.53 | brlcad | best to just ask your real question :) |
| 02:59.09 | LibertyTrooper | Well... I cannot get mged to run at all. |
| 03:00.31 | brlcad | if you run /usr/brlcad/bin/mged in xterm, what does it do? |
| 03:00.45 | LibertyTrooper | it gives me an error. One moment. |
| 03:00.56 | brlcad | ~pastebin |
| 03:00.57 | ibot | pastebin is probably a place to paste your stuff without flooding the channel - try http://pastebin.com/ (BROKEN AND SUCKING NUTS), or http://pastebin.ca, or http://channels.debian.net/paste, or for #oe use http://oe.pastebin.com, or http://bzflag.pastebin.ca/, or http://paste.lisp.org/ for the lisp/scheme nuts, or http://paste-it.net |
| 03:04.07 | LibertyTrooper | One moment while I figure out why X won't start now. |
| 03:11.44 | LibertyTrooper | http://pastebin.ca/189491 |
| 03:12.26 | brlcad | ack |
| 03:12.29 | brlcad | opengl error |
| 03:12.34 | brlcad | what's your video card there? |
| 03:12.49 | brlcad | and what depth is your display set to? |
| 03:12.58 | LibertyTrooper | Whatever comes in a Macbook Pro ... :) |
| 03:13.10 | brlcad | hmmm.. |
| 03:13.16 | brlcad | did you compile yourself? |
| 03:13.20 | brlcad | or using the binary |
| 03:13.32 | LibertyTrooper | I'm using the binary. |
| 03:14.23 | brlcad | that's somewhat odd then.. |
| 03:14.24 | LibertyTrooper | I suppose I could try to compile it myself. But its been years since I compiled anything under X much less any flavor of Unix. |
| 03:14.58 | LibertyTrooper | I've got the Apple X11 installation straight from the CD ( I just installed it again to make sure everything was vanilla) |
| 03:15.18 | brlcad | compiling under the macbook pro's hasn't been fully tested yet frankly as I've been putting more effort into decoupling from X11 instead |
| 03:15.27 | LibertyTrooper | Its a Radeon X1600 with 256/VRAM |
| 03:15.51 | LibertyTrooper | (video) |
| 03:16.01 | brlcad | it could be some rosetta/x11 issue |
| 03:16.16 | brlcad | it's not a universal binary there |
| 03:16.42 | brlcad | does mged -c work? |
| 03:17.12 | brlcad | that kicks off classic console mode |
| 03:17.55 | LibertyTrooper | seems to start a console. Asks me to attach nullXlog? |
| 03:18.37 | brlcad | nu |
| 03:18.40 | LibertyTrooper | Sorry. I suppose that BRLCad is something that is way beyond my meager skills. I simply wanted to take a look at it because we do a lot with Motion control etc. |
| 03:19.06 | brlcad | ooh, here's a thread on the apple mailing list -- some issue with the x11 intel binary |
| 03:19.09 | LibertyTrooper | Its got an mged prompt |
| 03:19.40 | brlcad | that's good to know -- correlates with the mailing list info I just found -- go ahead and quit and try this: |
| 03:19.44 | brlcad | export LIBGL_ALWAYS_INDIRECT=1 |
| 03:19.47 | brlcad | then try again |
| 03:19.51 | brlcad | (without -c) |
| 03:20.03 | dtidrow | always inderect? |
| 03:20.17 | dtidrow | indirect, rather |
| 03:20.37 | LibertyTrooper | Got what seems to be the editor :) |
| 03:20.54 | Maloeran | Indirect opengl rendering, if there's no real hardware implementation available.. |
| 03:21.30 | brlcad | yeah, it's bypassing the x11 opengl context, there seems to be a bug or endian issue at least in the x11 client |
| 03:21.46 | brlcad | (according to this mini-thread I just stumbled across) |
| 03:21.54 | dtidrow | yuck |
| 03:22.09 | brlcad | means nothing to mged, doesn't need/benefit |
| 03:22.29 | dtidrow | probably, but sucks for other things |
| 03:22.40 | LibertyTrooper | Ok. Now I can being to figure this out. Thanks *very* much. |
| 03:22.46 | LibertyTrooper | I can begin |
| 03:22.49 | brlcad | LibertyTrooper: glad it worked, good to know |
| 03:23.04 | brlcad | LibertyTrooper: the tutorial series on the website is generally the place to start |
| 03:23.07 | brlcad | and the other docs there |
| 03:23.12 | dtidrow | you guys see the latest in SCOvWorld saga? |
| 03:23.15 | brlcad | http://brlcad.org |
| 03:23.19 | LibertyTrooper | I've downloaded them all. |
| 03:23.49 | brlcad | LibertyTrooper: ah, best of luck then -- feel free to report any problems or make feature requests that come to mind |
| 03:23.56 | brlcad | dtidrow: nope |
| 03:24.02 | LibertyTrooper | SCO... are they still around? |
| 03:24.09 | dtidrow | barely |
| 03:24.41 | dtidrow | and if IBM & Novell get their way, SCO will be in Chap7 by the end of the year |
| 03:25.40 | dtidrow | Novell wants their 95% cut of the extra licenses that SCO sold to Sun and M$ |
| 03:25.57 | brlcad | heh |
| 03:26.08 | LibertyTrooper | Ok. Funny.. I used to work with SCO systems 90-92... Was "adequate" system and company then. Very good support; relatively speaking. |
| 03:26.13 | dtidrow | which is about $25M - SCO is only worth $40M |
| 03:27.01 | dtidrow | this is NewSCO - used to be (and soon will be again) Caldera |
| 03:27.03 | dtidrow | ;-) |
| 03:27.23 | LibertyTrooper | <PROTECTED> |
| 03:27.33 | dtidrow | heh |
| 03:27.37 | LibertyTrooper | but = buy |
| 03:27.44 | LibertyTrooper | I cannot type today it seems. |
| 03:27.45 | dtidrow | or get in on an IPO |
| 03:28.49 | brlcad | and to this a lot of this started over sco's left hand not knowing what their right hand did years before, releasing some of their own abi and code as open source |
| 03:29.29 | brlcad | later finding that code in the linux kernel and thinking oh noes! dey stole frum us! |
| 03:29.30 | dtidrow | I've still got some VA Software stock from their IPO - was able to get 100 shares at $30, sold 20 at $210, another 20 at $104, kept the rest |
| 03:30.26 | LibertyTrooper | I remember years ago, when I was in the Army, that SCO seemed to be everywhere :) |
| 03:30.59 | dtidrow | brlcad: it was more like "We need some money fast - let's extort IBM!" |
| 03:31.41 | dtidrow | they are now caught between an irrestible force and an immovable object |
| 03:31.43 | LibertyTrooper | Bah... Whomever the CEO is, cannot hope for another job after this mess :) |
| 03:32.11 | brlcad | dtidrow: well, that too -- i think it sort of snowballed and got out of control |
| 03:32.15 | dtidrow | LibertyTrooper: we expect him to do a perp walk in a year or so |
| 03:32.21 | Maloeran | SCO hasn't met a horrible and painful death yet? |
| 03:32.27 | LibertyTrooper | Yeah, dead in the water certainly is immovable (Novell) |
| 03:32.39 | dtidrow | Maloeran: check groklaw - the fat lady is warming up :-) |
| 03:36.14 | LibertyTrooper | Its a concert that I don't care about because the music has already been played out. |
| 03:40.18 | dtidrow | heh |
| 03:40.37 | dtidrow | c'mon, the blood is starting to flow :-) |
| 03:41.30 | LibertyTrooper | I've enough going on trying to get used to using my Mac :) |
| 03:41.50 | LibertyTrooper | Though, what I've learned has convinced me that this is going to be my platform for a long time. |
| 03:42.15 | LibertyTrooper | Especially now that there is decent virtualization with Parallel |
| 03:45.58 | LibertyTrooper | Man, its a beautiful night here in Las Vegas... Temperature and humidity are perfect here on the patio. |
| 03:46.20 | LibertyTrooper | Where is everyone else? |
| 03:49.54 | Maloeran | Montreal, it's getting cool up here |
| 03:50.33 | Maloeran | Las Vegas wasn't especially warm in the evening when I passed by 3 weeks ago |
| 03:50.53 | brlcad | a little north of baltimore, also a great night |
| 03:51.21 | LibertyTrooper | Well, I was in Texas 3 weeks ago so I didn't know what it was like here :) |
| 03:51.28 | dtidrow | it's been downright brisk recently, for this time of year |
| 03:52.29 | LibertyTrooper | Texas was nice too though. I was at Matagorda bay. The only bad thing was the mosquito's (sp?) |
| 03:53.00 | brlcad | ~spell mosquito |
| 03:53.53 | LibertyTrooper | My wife seems to be especially tasty to them as well as extremely allergic. She looked like I did the first time I went paintballing with my friends. |
| 03:53.58 | LibertyTrooper | Only worse. |
| 03:54.04 | brlcad | heh |
| 03:54.27 | dtidrow | ouch |
| 03:54.55 | dtidrow | yeah, I'm like that too - they seem to find my blood especially tasty |
| 03:56.07 | LibertyTrooper | I think its probably too much potassium. I heard tell that they were attracted more to people with high potassium levels. |
| 03:57.03 | LibertyTrooper | But perhaps the advice not to eat a banana before venturing outside in hot humid areas is an "old wives tale" |
| 03:57.55 | LibertyTrooper | I appreciate the help. I've got just enough going my way now to be very annoying with my questions about BRLCad :) |
| 04:02.14 | LibertyTrooper | Oh, btw, anyone have an opinion of sketchup? |
| 04:05.26 | brlcad | it's a rather nice modeling-for-the-masses tool with some decent ideas |
| 04:06.14 | LibertyTrooper | I found some of its tools and related concepts to be very easy. Others were not quite so intuitive though. |
| 04:06.14 | brlcad | not a solid modeler in the least, or well suited to any sort of CAd or engineering really, but it serves their purpose quite nicely |
| 04:07.15 | LibertyTrooper | BRLCad is suited to machine simulations, yes? |
| 04:08.56 | brlcad | what do you mean by machine simulations? |
| 04:09.06 | LibertyTrooper | My unfamiliarity with the technical terms for exactly what I'm trying to ask probably leads to some confusion. In other words, one can design a simple gear and then us BRLCad to simulate its action in the real world. Would this statement be accurate or inaccurate? |
| 04:09.59 | brlcad | hm accurate yes, though the answer is a bit of a convoluted "sorta" yes and no |
| 04:10.11 | LibertyTrooper | LOL :) |
| 04:10.42 | brlcad | there are currently no parametrics or contraints that you'd normally want to perform a realistic geometric simulation *automatically* |
| 04:11.44 | brlcad | there are, however, all of the facilities to represent that gear correctly to a given physical representation, validate that representation, and apply modifications according to some simulation (rotate the gear, ensure there are no overlaps, etc) |
| 04:12.12 | LibertyTrooper | Ok. Thats somewhat of the answer for which I was looking. |
| 04:13.13 | LibertyTrooper | Thanks again. I'm going to refrain from any more questions tonight. Goodnight all :) |
| 04:13.23 | brlcad | g'night! |
| 04:14.04 | *** part/#brlcad LibertyTrooper (n=LibertyT@wsip-24-234-123-169.lv.lv.cox.net) | |
| 11:49.09 | ``Erik | ehhhh |
| 11:50.08 | ValveQ | hello Erik |
| 11:52.18 | ``Erik | 'sup? |
| 11:53.20 | ValveQ | coding some simple CAM function |
| 11:53.41 | ValveQ | for iso g-code generation |
| 11:53.58 | ValveQ | (very brlcad unrelated) |
| 11:54.12 | ``Erik | heh, didja look at "gcam"? |
| 11:55.03 | ValveQ | no |
| 11:55.50 | ``Erik | http://gcam.js.cx/ |
| 11:56.08 | ValveQ | i can't find anything there |
| 11:56.21 | ``Erik | well, it's not released yet, heh, but supposedly will be soon |
| 11:57.03 | ValveQ | ok... |
| 11:57.07 | ``Erik | :D |
| 11:58.04 | ValveQ | i was thinking of implementing something thinner in Haskell |
| 11:59.19 | ``Erik | heh, haskell is fun, I played with it some back in, um, '00 ? |
| 11:59.39 | ``Erik | a lot of scheme back then, too... the scheme stuck, however |
| 12:01.27 | ValveQ | Haskell is pretty usefull as well |
| 12:02.17 | ValveQ | at least when you learn to use the more advanced stuff anyway (monads,arrows) :) |
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| 17:49.14 | brlcad | hmm |
| 17:50.26 | brlcad | ~nslookup gcam.js.cx |
| 17:51.57 | brlcad | ~nslookup 74.92.144.217 |
| 17:53.19 | brlcad | that server times out on dns queries |
| 17:56.26 | archivist | hmm worked earlier |
| 17:59.04 | archivist | self hosting like me probably? |
| 18:03.13 | ``Erik | heh |
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| 02:01.46 | Maloeran | Thanks for the fixes, Erik. By the way, you added #include <math.h> in prepmodel.c, which already includes it through headers.h |
| 02:02.02 | Maloeran | Are you sure that was causing a crash on openbsd? Because it does not make much sense.. |
| 02:03.32 | Maloeran | How are the prep times now? |
| 02:04.41 | Maloeran | Oh, you shared that on efnet :), thanks |
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| 02:53.32 | brlcad | hey Twingy .. finally remembered to bring the pin in next time you're in.. |
| 02:53.32 | Twingy | got your vm, thx, haven't gotten over there yet this week |
| 02:53.33 | Twingy | I've been busy setting up the new cnc |
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| 05:59.13 | PrezKennedy | kermit needs to get in on this IRC action |
| 06:01.38 | dtidrow | heh |
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| 17:34.32 | brlcad | he'd dig it I think |
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| 00:50.50 | Maloeran | Erik, brlcad, or whoever else is coming : do you know in which hotel you'll be for that Baltimore visualization conference? |
| 01:01.45 | ``Erik | uh, I'm not getting a hotel, heh.. it's, like, less than an hour down the road |
| 01:11.50 | Maloeran | Makes sense |
| 01:38.31 | brlcad | Maloeran: takes me about 40 to drive, roughly two hours to bike, though roughly 30km of that route is somewhat unsafe (high speed, small shoulder) as you approach the city |
| 01:38.55 | brlcad | i'm gather he meant car, and during rush hour on a weekday .. an hour might be generous |
| 01:39.30 | brlcad | but yeah, no hotel.. I go farther every other day for rowing practice |
| 02:02.46 | ``Erik | I have a good drive to get to 95... so, yeah, I meant an hour by car |
| 02:03.01 | ``Erik | new southpark |
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| 20:01.42 | nita | Hello anyone |
| 20:03.47 | nita | hello everyone |
| 20:07.04 | nita | who #brlcad |
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| 23:07.30 | CIA-9 | BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/sh/gforge.sh: |
| 23:07.30 | CIA-9 | BRL-CAD: update the script to include the names of the person(s) that the task item is |
| 23:07.30 | CIA-9 | BRL-CAD: assigned to. genericize the script to any gforge project while not requiring |
| 23:07.30 | CIA-9 | BRL-CAD: HOST/PROJECT to be set for some defaults. modify the table output a little to |
| 23:07.30 | CIA-9 | BRL-CAD: change the assigned to field to be blank when nobody is assigned. |
| 23:08.25 | CIA-9 | BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/libfb/if_X24.c: meh |
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| 23:53.03 | CIA-9 | BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/NEWS: added new script to extract gforge task items, reworded recent script lines added by lee to fit the formatting. |
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| 08:08.16 | Briggs | anyone around? |
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| 18:48.43 | CIA-5 | BRL-CAD: 03bob1961 * 10brlcad/src/tclscripts/archer/Archer.tcl: Mods to better accomodate utility plugins. |
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| 23:09.29 | PrezKennedy | i gotta question about how the command line is set up in bz.. and how i can make it do that somewhere else |
| 23:10.21 | PrezKennedy | this other server i have an account on doesnt show the full path or the time or anything |
| 23:41.43 | PrezKennedy | nevermind i got it figured out well enough |
| 23:50.59 | ``Erik | heh... 'doesn't show the full path'? like... it has a different prompt? heh |
| 23:57.00 | PrezKennedy | the prompt was very uninformative |
| 23:57.11 | PrezKennedy | now it tells me where i am at least |
| 00:34.50 | ``Erik | most shells use the environment variable PS1 to set the prompt |
| 00:44.30 | PrezKennedy | yup figured it out |
| 01:13.48 | Twingy | gcam.js.cx is live |
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| 03:55.45 | s0| | how the heck do I run this thing? |
| 03:56.20 | s0| | I have downloaded the gz2 file. |
| 03:56.24 | s0| | I have tarballed it. |
| 03:56.30 | s0| | I have added something to my path |
| 03:56.50 | s0| | I would like to know HOW THE *** I am supposed to run this thing |
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| 04:05.00 | tonsofpcs | hi |
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| 17:24.04 | Maloeran | Around, Erik? I got some draft of very short technical paper on the raytracer as first piece of documentation. It goes right to the point without any pointless babbling though, so I guess it isn't a proper "paper" by the standards out there |
| 17:25.12 | Maloeran | or brlcad, if you are interested |
| 00:37.09 | Maloeran | Eh okay, that's a no :). It will be in doc/ with the next commit |
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| 12:30.38 | yosef_m | Hello |
| 12:31.30 | yosef_m | Anyone active here? |
| 12:53.04 | brlcad | depends on the time of day |
| 12:53.15 | brlcad | ~ask |
| 12:53.16 | ibot | ask is, like, Questions in the channel should be specific, informative, complete, concise, and on-topic. Don't ask if you can ask a question first. Don't ask if a person is there, just ask what you intended to ask them. Better questions more frequently yield better answers. We are all here voluntarily. See also http://catb.org/~esr/faqs/smart-questions.html |
| 12:56.47 | yosef_m | I'm looking for a way to make technical drawings in brl-cad |
| 12:57.37 | brlcad | that would generally be through the rtedge and/or nirt rendering interfaces |
| 12:58.06 | brlcad | doesn't give you dimensions, but does generate the hidden line renderings |
| 12:58.08 | brlcad | example: http://ftp.brlcad.org/images/havoc_rtedge.png |
| 12:59.11 | yosef_m | is it being worked on? Are there plans to make it more like a technical drawing tool? |
| 12:59.36 | brlcad | yes and yes, though it's rather low on the priority scale given everything else going on |
| 12:59.49 | brlcad | contributions in that regard would be more than welcome |
| 13:00.22 | yosef_m | Well, though I'm a programmer, I'm giving more time to my engineering degree now... |
| 13:00.30 | yosef_m | I'm considering VariCAD |
| 13:01.06 | yosef_m | Thanks, though |
| 13:01.22 | brlcad | no problem |
| 13:01.47 | brlcad | time is the biggest limitation, there are more than enough things to work on ;) |
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| 18:30.40 | CIA-5 | BRL-CAD: 03bob1961 * 10brlcad/src/tclscripts/archer/images/Themes/ (6 files in 3 dirs): Initial check-in. |
| 18:36.10 | CIA-5 | BRL-CAD: 03bob1961 * 10brlcad/src/tclscripts/archer/Archer.tcl: Added component selection and measuring stick options. |
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| 23:22.29 | dtidrow_work | evening |
| 23:22.49 | dtidrow_work | is that chuck? |
| 23:22.53 | brlcad | close :) |
| 23:23.07 | dtidrow_work | heh |
| 23:27.43 | ``Erik | blargh |
| 00:12.04 | Twingy | mini chuck |
| 00:44.24 | CIA-5 | BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/NEWS: keep a record of the changes bob just added, namely hte new picking and measuring capabilities added to archer |
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| 03:02.43 | CIA-5 | BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/TODO: add the automated rtarea spreadsheet-producing script to repository |
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| 16:38.20 | brlcad | you committing? cause I was starting distchecks |
| 16:39.43 | ``Erik | yes... |
| 16:39.52 | ``Erik | lee committed at like 4am and broke stuff, too |
| 16:40.20 | ``Erik | my commits are metaball feature stuff, nothing that should impact the release... so keep working with your checkout :D |
| 16:40.44 | CIA-5 | BRL-CAD: 03lbutler * 10brlcad/sh/facetall.sh: tolerance and EOF ignore |
| 16:40.44 | CIA-5 | BRL-CAD: 03lbutler * 10brlcad/src/librt/wdb_obj.c: Doxygen mods |
| 16:40.45 | CIA-5 | BRL-CAD: 03lbutler * 10brlcad/src/tclscripts/mged/ (expand_comb_tree.tcl facetize_all_regions.tcl): expand code moved into facetize_all_regions.tcl for ease of debugging. Some code changes to facetize. |
| 16:40.50 | CIA-5 | BRL-CAD: 03erikgreenwald * 10brlcad/src/librt/wdb_obj.c: brackets need to be balanced... |
| 16:41.44 | CIA-5 | BRL-CAD: 03erikgreenwald * 10brlcad/src/librt/g_metaball.c: |
| 16:41.44 | CIA-5 | BRL-CAD: Scale sphere size against threshhold for 'plot'. |
| 16:41.46 | CIA-5 | BRL-CAD: Print render method in 'describe'. |
| 16:41.51 | CIA-5 | BRL-CAD: 03erikgreenwald * 10brlcad/include/raytrace.h: some functions useful for metaball solid editing |
| 16:44.59 | ``Erik | hah |
| 14:56.48 | CIA-5 | BRL-CAD: 03bob1961 * 10brlcad/src/tclscripts/swidgets/scripts/tree.itk: Check-in for Doug Howard. These mods are for handling bigger trees. |
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| 02:34.39 | CIA-5 | BRL-CAD: 03lbutler * 10brlcad/src/tclscripts/mged/ (Makefile.am facetize_all_regions.tcl expand_comb_tree.tcl): |
| 02:34.39 | CIA-5 | BRL-CAD: updates to support expanding combination record trees. Serious improvements. |
| 02:34.39 | CIA-5 | BRL-CAD: changes to facetization of all regions. |
| 02:39.06 | CIA-5 | BRL-CAD: 03lbutler * 10brlcad/src/tclscripts/mged/expand_comb.tcl: |
| 02:39.07 | CIA-5 | BRL-CAD: This replaces expand_comb_tree.tcl file. |
| 02:39.07 | CIA-5 | BRL-CAD: Shorter file/proc name for ease of use in mged. |
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| 02:47.52 | CIA-5 | BRL-CAD: 03lbutler * 10brlcad/doc/html/manuals/mged/mged_cmd_index.html: updated to match new implementation details for expand_comb |
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| 00:15.13 | Maloeran | Big rayforce commit, Erik, feel free to inform me if I broke anything... Performance should be more acceptable ( SSE and other goodies, still no quad volume tracing, etc. ) |
| 00:17.29 | Maloeran | Would it be possible for autoconf to put -msse -msse -m3dnow -m3dnowext -fomit-frame-pointer -ffast-math in CFLAGS by itself? |
| 00:18.01 | Maloeran | And it detects a missing log2() function systematically since it checks without -std=c99 |
| 01:23.18 | brlcad | Maloeran: it is possible to add those flags, easiest is to probably just set CFLAGS="$CFLAGS -msse -msse -m3dnow -m3dnowext -fomit-frame-pointer -ffast-math" somewhere in the configure.ac file somewhere after AM_INIT_AUTOMAKE |
| 01:24.41 | brlcad | ideally, you'd save your cflags (PRECFLAGS="$CFLAGS"), set a new cflags (CFLAGS="$CFLAGS ..."), and then try a compilation test to make sure they actually work and if not restoring the saved cflags (CFLAGS="$PRECFLAGS") as those options are certainly not universal |
| 01:25.41 | Maloeran | I see, thanks. Though, the flags should only be present if presently supported |
| 01:28.01 | Maloeran | The compiled test will have to be executed, running SSE instructions... and wait for a SIGILL. I have much to read about autoconf, unless Erik wants to commit that |
| 01:28.35 | brlcad | that's pretty easy to add, plenty such examples in brl-cad's .ac |
| 01:28.53 | brlcad | look for AC_TRY_RUN |
| 01:29.09 | brlcad | or AC_TRY_LINK if you just want to test compilation and not runnability |
| 01:29.23 | Maloeran | Oh? I see, nice |
| 01:30.26 | brlcad | AC_TRY_RUN([ source here ], [what to do if succeeded], [what to do if failed]) |
| 01:31.18 | brlcad | usually set a variable for the if succeeded/failed part and then handle the result outside the AC_TRY_RUN |
| 01:34.13 | Maloeran | *nod* I'll experiment with that, thanks |
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| 14:26.36 | Maloeran | Erik, another quick note if you happen to try it out : delete any old cache file lying around, or you won't get proper performance |
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| 18:49.12 | Maloeran | Hey Erik, did you see my note about reorganizing milestones?.. |
| 19:00.49 | Maloeran | On the truck_bots file Lee uploaded, I also get a flood of errors such as db_walk_subtree() FAIL on '/all/fuel_pump.rc.bot from his framework for read .g files, investigating |
| 19:05.56 | Maloeran | Nevermind, it still works despites the flood on stderr |
| 20:46.43 | CIA-5 | BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/NEWS: prepare for release, numbering it 7.8.4 as planned even though it's borderline 7.10 feature-wise. last news item, doug howard added (via bob) support for handling larger hierarchies in archer. |
| 20:51.49 | CIA-5 | BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/ (configure.ac ChangeLog include/config_win.h): prepare for release 7.8.4, standard updates |
| 21:00.39 | Maloeran | Raytracer detects sectors of 86 and 93 triangles which aren't possible to split up. I located the sectors and there's nothing out of the ordinary visible, any possibility of overlapping triangle mess? |
| 21:01.00 | Maloeran | That came out of the CSG->triangle converter |
| 21:13.33 | Maloeran | I'm asking since this kind of situation would have been very apparent in ADRT as well, I don't suppose it was noticed |
| 21:19.55 | ``Erik | the truck was never done in adrt |
| 21:20.05 | ``Erik | <-- doesn't know about the tesselation stuff... |
| 21:20.43 | brlcad | it's not supposed to output overlapping triangles, but it's certainly possible if there was a degenerate case of some sort I bet |
| 21:20.56 | Maloeran | Okay I got it in play sight, very long thin triangles going from an edge of the sector to the opposite edge of the other sector |
| 21:21.18 | Maloeran | The not yet written permutation pass of the prep will take care of that |
| 21:24.21 | Maloeran | It's a fairly bad case, performance collapse by 70% there, down to 1m/s. on slow laptop |
| 21:24.52 | ``Erik | heh, the geometry was a better test case than expected :> |
| 21:25.32 | Maloeran | Did you quickly test the new code? Performance is getting decent |
| 21:30.57 | ``Erik | nope, was installing openbsd on a machine at work, and my time ended at 3, so now I'm home cleaning house |
| 21:31.44 | Maloeran | Gah. I can't spend weeks to complete the prep as planned, with the milestones coming up. I suppose that will wait until the end of the project |
| 23:35.20 | Maloeran | Erik, are all these questions and statements welcome or are you occupied with other matters these days? I could use your thoughts on certain matters related to features, milestones and the work to be done. It can wait though |
| 23:36.03 | Twingy | Like Suicide |
| 23:39.23 | ``Erik | mal: your timing is off :) I like to leave work at work... talk to me tomorrow before, oh, say, 5pm, when I have access to all the files and people |
| 23:41.20 | Maloeran | Right. So noted, thanks |
| 23:54.43 | Twingy | das goot! |
| 23:54.50 | Twingy | pan done, not for ruler |
| 23:54.53 | Twingy | *now |
| 23:56.36 | ``Erik | http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v350/Pinecone/Cavalier2.jpg |
| 23:59.02 | Twingy | your new car? |
| 00:16.37 | *** join/#brlcad IriX64 (n=mario_du@bas3-sudbury98-1168055344.dsl.bell.ca) | |
| 01:01.02 | CIA-5 | BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/ (README configure.ac NEWS include/config_win.h): update to next developer release, 7.9.0, indicating intentions for the next release to be a minor update not just a patch update as 7.10.0 |
| 01:19.49 | CIA-5 | BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/configure.ac: add an --enable-ef-build option to configure with aliases of ef, endgame, and more providing BUILD_EF for automake |
| 01:23.29 | CIA-5 | BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/conv/ (g-acad.1 g-acad.c): Make it more explicitly clear that ACAD is not AutoCAD. It's the 'Advanced Computer-Aided Design' system developed and used in-house by Lockheed Martin (formerly by General Dynamics). |
| 01:34.28 | CIA-5 | BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/external/README: documentation on the soon to be added external EndgameFramework module |
| 01:35.52 | CIA-5 | BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/conv/nmg-bot.c: prevent a few potential null dereferencings |
| 02:50.30 | Maloeran | Ahah. How was I complaining about 93 triangles per sector... There are a few >= 200 in that truck |
| 02:51.23 | Maloeran | Oh, a 459 triangles one. Okay, this needs immediate fixing |
| 02:54.45 | Maloeran | That sure explains how the rate hops between 4.5m/s and 1.0m/s. as I fly through it |
| 03:26.20 | *** part/#brlcad IriX64 (n=mario_du@bas3-sudbury98-1168055344.dsl.bell.ca) | |
| 12:30.21 | *** join/#brlcad rossberg (n=rossberg@bz.bzflag.bz) | |
| 13:24.40 | Maloeran | So Erik, is now a good time? :) |
| 13:25.40 | brlcad | g'morning rossberg |
| 13:25.51 | ``Erik | heh, walking into a meeting with wendy ina minute, actually :) |
| 13:25.52 | brlcad | or afternoon for you I suppose |
| 13:26.01 | ``Erik | also; failure on build, posix_memalign |
| 13:26.54 | Maloeran | Isn't that POSIX.1d ? |
| 13:28.38 | rossberg | brlcad: good afternoon |
| 13:28.47 | Maloeran | I would have used my mm.c functions, though that's outside the raytracer library ; rather dirty to copy mm.c everywhere until I figure out these rumored "convenience libraries" |
| 13:29.04 | ``Erik | it's not on bsd, irix, solaris, or osX... just linux as fara s i can see |
| 13:29.22 | ``Erik | but the functionality is listed by many other names... *shrug* |
| 13:29.54 | Maloeran | memalign() is not garanteed to be able to be free()'d, which is a very akward limitation |
| 13:30.27 | ``Erik | *read* as far as I can tell, 1d is not a standard, just a draft proposal for realtime os stuff |
| 13:30.29 | Maloeran | Anyhow, I'll just import some mm.c functions as I did from rfmath.c, it gets nasty |
| 13:30.50 | ``Erik | okie, meeting time |
| 13:30.53 | Maloeran | Have fun! |
| 13:35.42 | rossberg | brlcad: may a gpl library contain bsd code? |
| 13:36.07 | rossberg | (or lgpl library) |
| 13:36.09 | Maloeran | Sure, not the other way around though |
| 13:39.00 | rossberg | libregex contains an unusual passage regarding the acknowledgement |
| 13:53.28 | brlcad | bsd code can be used easily in other codes, the license is rather flexible |
| 13:53.53 | brlcad | basically just requires that you don't claim authorship for that code |
| 13:57.27 | rossberg | i mentioned the bsd part in the readme file of the brlcad.dll release |
| 13:58.01 | rossberg | the large brlcad realeses contain the acknowledgement anyway |
| 13:59.03 | brlcad | right |
| 14:00.29 | brlcad | if i'm not mistaken, the library uses the original bsd license, which has the endorsement clause on advertising |
| 14:01.03 | brlcad | would be good to update to a more recent version of that library to get the updated bsd license (and hopefully performance enhancements) but it's not a major issue in the least |
| 14:01.36 | brlcad | it's still bsd and lets you basically do anything with it so long as you give them credit (which brl-cad does, and you've done in your dll.. should be plenty) |
| 14:05.30 | rossberg | thats what i thought |
| 14:07.00 | brlcad | about time we finally got a release posted.. hopefully we can stick on track now and get back to monthlies |
| 14:09.19 | brlcad | the automated builds should hopefully be on-line soon so it really will be just a matter of setting a tag, copying up the files, and sending out announcements |
| 14:10.01 | *** topic/#brlcad by brlcad -> http://brlcad.org/ || BRL-CAD is an open source solid modeling software suite || Developers needed! Read the HACKING file for details on getting involved || Release 7.8.4 is posted, next release will be 7.10.0 | |
| 14:14.20 | rossberg | will these automatic builds work for ms windows too? |
| 14:19.24 | brlcad | :) |
| 14:20.09 | brlcad | ideally the will eventually .. though the windows builds still need a lot of work |
| 14:23.58 | brlcad | getting your dll to auto-build will likely be a lot easier to automate first |
| 14:24.42 | brlcad | i've got a windows dev system that should be coming on-line soon (read: within a month or two) so I should be able to polish up things where bob left off, get things automating like they need to be |
| 14:25.01 | brlcad | using features of the vc6 build system that you added like autogenerating the vers.c files, etc |
| 14:25.35 | rossberg | likely; do you know SCons? |
| 14:26.34 | Maloeran | Compiling in mingw with Makefiles might well be far less trouble |
| 14:26.44 | Maloeran | And the VC6 optimisation is abysmal |
| 14:26.58 | rossberg | it's a cross plattform build tool based on Python |
| 14:29.39 | rossberg | is it possible to build windows binaries with gcc on *nix? |
| 14:32.24 | brlcad | rossberg: quite familiar with scons |
| 14:34.02 | brlcad | setting up a scons build system would require about as much work as has already gone into the autotools build system, and adds another layer of complexity for supporting older systems |
| 14:35.19 | brlcad | the biggest detriment is maturity, scons still has a lot of issues with correct cross-platform behavior, it doesn't really manage complexity much better (for large projects) than autotools does |
| 14:36.08 | brlcad | it should eventually eclipse autotools, but that's at least five years out if I had to estimate |
| 14:37.17 | brlcad | there are other benefits and downsides, but the fundamentals just aren't there for a mild benefit -- and it only solves one (rather minor) problem of a build system. pure windows devs still generally prefer studio projects. |
| 14:40.29 | Maloeran | Probably. It just seems far less of an effort to support an additional gcc target, as MS tools don't support C99, C extensions, etc. |
| 14:41.06 | brlcad | heh, "C extensions" are "GCC extensions" ;) |
| 14:41.28 | Maloeran | Supported by Intel, Pathscale and a couple others ;) |
| 14:41.32 | brlcad | it does support c99, though, vc8 is particularly better at conforming |
| 14:41.50 | brlcad | sure, but still a set of things "invented by gcc" |
| 14:41.53 | Maloeran | Really? I'm surprised, I heard otherwise even recently |
| 14:43.18 | brlcad | i'd be curious to know what someone thinks it didn't support -- there's only a limited set of api calls in the standard that are outside of the expected namespace, but they are still provided -- syntax-wise, it should be pretty conformant |
| 14:43.47 | brlcad | it lets you do some things that it really shouldn't, but that's a different issue |
| 14:46.04 | rossberg | i don't have that impression that C99 is a main issue, operating system interfaces as e.g. POSIX are more important, some are supported by Windows and some not |
| 14:46.32 | brlcad | that is quite true |
| 14:47.17 | brlcad | though for a lot of the posix interfaces, there's a #definable solution that works just named something different |
| 14:47.29 | Maloeran | Quite right. It's just one less issue to worry about when porting with mingw |
| 14:49.02 | brlcad | a mingw port is quite easy and holistic, but need to test out how well that works for making distributable clickable apps for things like mged |
| 14:49.17 | brlcad | still doesn't solve the "I want to use Studio" problem, but it gets a full build |
| 14:50.09 | rossberg | hard to believe, the mutithread interfaces aren't compatible |
| 14:50.33 | brlcad | one approach I may consider is a make target that generates the studio project files -- shouldn't be too difficult as the file format is relatively straightforward xml or text (depending on whether vc678 is targetted) |
| 14:51.15 | rossberg | btw, SCons can generate the vs project files (VS6.0 and .NET) |
| 14:51.28 | brlcad | ooh, nice -- did not know that |
| 14:52.27 | rossberg | but, as you said, it |
| 14:52.34 | rossberg | is still alpha |
| 14:53.39 | brlcad | yeah, I still wouldn't jump to scons just yet because of the variety of other issues |
| 14:53.47 | brlcad | that would be nice icing though |
| 14:59.36 | brlcad | more important is to actually get a complete build on windows, seeing as there is only 10% of the binaries ported, and an equivalent environment to run them in (a brl-cad shell) |
| 15:01.56 | brlcad | to get all the binaries, it's either 1) something with mingw/cygwin, 2) generate studio project files, 3) manual generation in studio like was started, or 4) give scons a go |
| 15:02.29 | brlcad | and that's roughly in order towards the level of effort, issues, and time that would be involved, increasingly |
| 15:04.01 | brlcad | 3 and 4 are inherintly problematic, but if someone (tm) else is willing to do the work then great ;) |
| 15:06.06 | brlcad | I'll be working on both 1 and 2 as they are maintainable solutions and would stay in sync with the current build infrastructure, which has been working out quite well so far |
| 15:13.34 | rossberg | i havn't tried any build with mingw or cygwin yet; all i can say is the cygwin X server works for me |
| 15:15.01 | rossberg | on the other hand, building project files isn't the problem, however threading features and open a shell are (as e.g. in vdeck) |
| 15:34.58 | Maloeran | There's really something weird about the output from asc2g |
| 15:35.34 | Maloeran | There are 93 triangles in that sector : http://www.rayforce.net/grah.png all long and thin, from an edge to the other |
| 15:40.08 | Maloeran | As much as the frame only looks like made of 3-4 planes. I'll make the prep handles such cases, but that's still some strange geometry |
| 16:47.35 | brlcad | hmm |
| 16:47.50 | brlcad | ~nslookup www.rayforce.net |
| 16:50.01 | ``Erik | has a whois record, though |
| 16:50.20 | brlcad | ~ping 205.178.190.21 |
| 16:50.24 | ibot | pong 205.178.190.21 |
| 16:50.32 | brlcad | getting massive packet loss to his name servers |
| 16:50.33 | ``Erik | takeing off the www. makes it work |
| 16:50.51 | brlcad | not here |
| 16:51.03 | brlcad | i think it's just wiggin out |
| 16:51.05 | ``Erik | hrmmmm, probably just gimpy ns |
| 16:51.22 | brlcad | what's the ip? |
| 16:52.12 | ``Erik | heh, sone of a bitch, got the pic but now I can't get the ip, heh |
| 16:52.19 | ``Erik | s/e / / |
| 16:53.22 | brlcad | post the pic up somewhere more respectable then :) |
| 16:55.16 | Maloeran | That could be problematic for emails if that's a real problem |
| 16:56.41 | brlcad | ``Erik: just 'erik' |
| 16:56.49 | ``Erik | oh, woops, heh |
| 16:57.19 | brlcad | public_html will work too |
| 16:57.27 | ``Erik | whu? /usr/tmp/ permission denied? O.O |
| 16:57.53 | brlcad | there is no /usr/tmp |
| 16:58.00 | brlcad | <PROTECTED> |
| 16:58.35 | brlcad | can toss it into /usr/web/ftp.brlcad.org/tmp too for web viewing |
| 16:58.38 | ``Erik | why the hell isn't there a /usr/tmp??? (and it's ~erik/public_html/grah.png now) |
| 16:59.11 | brlcad | ah, http://ftp.brlcad.org/~erik/grah.png there we go |
| 16:59.35 | ``Erik | ah, s/^/ftp./ |
| 16:59.36 | Maloeran | Thanks brlcad |
| 16:59.43 | ``Erik | I just tried brlcad.org/~erik/ |
| 16:59.51 | ``Erik | computers are hard |
| 16:59.56 | brlcad | heh |
| 17:00.06 | brlcad | brlcad.org is sf.net |
| 17:00.21 | brlcad | ftp.brlcad.org or bzflag.bz map to that host |
| 17:00.25 | ``Erik | aight, gotcha |
| 17:00.48 | ``Erik | huh, and I've been pussyfooting about downloading from http://brlcad.org to keep your bandwidth down, heh |
| 17:00.50 | brlcad | sort of matching the old ftp.arl.mil |
| 17:01.25 | brlcad | most of the larger downloads on brlcad.org actually link to ftp.brlcad.org (e.g. for the .pdf files) |
| 17:01.33 | brlcad | otherwise sf.net throttles them to like 4k |
| 17:01.47 | Maloeran | There isn't much to see in the pictures anyhow, but it's peculiar to have many packed thin long triangles there |
| 17:03.04 | brlcad | yeah, i'm not seeing it :) |
| 17:03.36 | Maloeran | Erik, do you have some time now? |
| 17:03.48 | ``Erik | 'fraid not, I'm off to another meeting in a few minutes :( |
| 17:04.53 | Maloeran | Will that last until you get home? |
| 17:05.09 | ``Erik | no, this is the last one, and hopefully it'll be short |
| 17:05.16 | Maloeran | All right |
| 17:18.53 | CIA-5 | BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/configure.ac: oop, the EndgameFramework directory isn't added to the repository yet, so leave it out |
| 17:23.11 | brlcad | well it sure as hell doesn't configure fast |
| 17:25.49 | Maloeran | My fastest box is a single core Athlon64 overclocked by 37%, very noisy for being cooled by two 110V fans. I'm due for an upgrade ;) |
| 17:44.41 | brlcad | ahh, almost 5 minutes to build, not "too" shabby |
| 17:45.07 | brlcad | altix still beats it by about 50%, but the cost ratio is certainly a bit skewed there.. ;) |
| 17:46.20 | Maloeran | Quite :) |
| 17:47.14 | brlcad | ahh, cached configure is much better.. less than a minute |
| 17:47.25 | Maloeran | I still await AMD's reply to Intel's new toy, I have been biased towards AMD since the amd-k6 |
| 18:12.46 | *** join/#brlcad Malfoo (n=maloeran@glvortex.net) | |
| 18:13.06 | Malfoo | Ah, that's what I get for connecting through the neighbours wireless |
| 18:26.49 | brlcad | woo, almost 15K VGRs on the 8-way AMD |
| 18:28.45 | brlcad | (that's just a little faster than the 12-way altix, now ~3 years old) |
| 18:31.11 | Malfoo | Hum, VGRs? |
| 18:31.43 | brlcad | Malfoo: it's a base unit of performanc measurement used by the brl-cad benchmark suite |
| 18:32.34 | brlcad | it's a linear performance metric, similar to FLOPS |
| 18:33.05 | brlcad | equates to average estimated ray-trace and overall cpu performance |
| 18:33.33 | Malfoo | *nod* Good, I guess you mesure memory bandwidth and several other factors |
| 18:34.48 | brlcad | it's not just a raw computation metric -- it actually performs several various "real" ray-trace renderings, so that you can compare the end user result, not just some theoretical integer/floating max for example |
| 18:35.18 | brlcad | so yeah, it takes memory into account, cache sizes, bus performance, cpu performance, etc |
| 18:35.52 | Malfoo | I see. Such specific tests can perform nicely or poorly due to many factors... The chip's branch prediction, for example |
| 18:37.19 | Malfoo | Do you have some idea how ADRT compares with OpenRT/Intrace or some other high-performance raytracers out there? |
| 18:38.59 | brlcad | yeah, sensitive to compilation options and compiler performance too, which is part of the entire point -- what does the performance look like when all is said and done |
| 18:41.09 | Malfoo | I'm a bit annoyed at the complete lack of reliable raw numbers on the performance of kd-trees, from all the papers of the conference |
| 18:41.29 | Malfoo | Doing 5 times faster than ADRT is one thing, I wish I had a clue how it compares with others |
| 18:41.46 | brlcad | hold a sec |
| 19:04.38 | *** join/#brlcad Maloeran (n=maloeran@glvortex.net) | |
| 19:18.16 | brlcad | there wasn't much in the way of performance numbers at rt06, siggraph would be a better source |
| 19:20.25 | Maloeran | I realized that, a conference on interactive raytracing with very little focus on raw numbers ; everybody probably gets the same thing for all using the same techniques |
| 19:22.28 | brlcad | that and none of the numbers have really changed since they were last presented, so it'd be redundant |
| 19:23.32 | brlcad | vaguely remember reschetov's presentation having numbers presented rather clearly a couple years ago |
| 19:24.10 | brlcad | and afaik, he's still got the fastest published results at least for first-hit optical with non-degenerate scenes |
| 19:24.37 | Maloeran | Oh? I don't suppose you remember any number? |
| 19:24.54 | brlcad | heh, my memory's not that good |
| 19:25.15 | Maloeran | I really would love to know how sector graphs mesure against the best kd-tree implementations |
| 19:25.29 | brlcad | ingo made a comment about it at siggraph iirc about how close they were to his results with their approach |
| 19:25.39 | brlcad | though they still didn't get what he was getting |
| 19:25.55 | Maloeran | Was it > 10 million rays per second per processor core? |
| 19:26.15 | brlcad | i really don't recall the raw numbers, or what his hardware was |
| 19:27.13 | brlcad | he was demo'ing it on his laptop at siggraph when it was presented, spinning detailed models around in real time with reasonable framerates |
| 19:27.21 | brlcad | look up his paper, it's got to have the numbers |
| 19:28.01 | Maloeran | So can I with the old slow prototype. Any idea on the paper title? |
| 19:28.24 | brlcad | nope, but he's not got a lot published |
| 19:30.57 | brlcad | ahh |
| 19:56.45 | Maloeran | The OpenRT performance sure is pathetic in there, but I think MLRTA exceeds my prototype |
| 20:02.31 | brlcad | i think adrt comes in just a little under openrt, but more or less in line |
| 20:03.12 | ``Erik | grar, some people are r-tards |
| 20:04.02 | Maloeran | Probably twice as slow as ADRT uses SSE |
| 20:04.11 | Maloeran | How was the meeting, Erik? :) |
| 20:04.40 | ``Erik | <km> the results of rt and adrt don't line up exactly, so I have to find the breakage <erik> do you know if your adrt is built to use floats or doubles? <km> floats, the problem goes away when using doubles <erik> yeah, uh, rt uses doubles, you're seeing fp roundoff <km> yeah, but I still have to get the rays so I can see where the problem is |
| 20:04.46 | ``Erik | hurrrrrr *head explodes* |
| 20:05.50 | Maloeran | Tiny differences or real flaws? I don't know if the the ADRT constants to overcome rounding were perfectly accurate |
| 20:06.35 | ``Erik | um, after a series of mutilations, the in and out points were "identical to eight places" but still claiming a thickness of 0.001 or something |
| 20:07.07 | ``Erik | but, dude, the problem goes away when using doubles and the results are identical... km's task is to see if the results are identical... |
| 20:07.14 | ``Erik | and librt uses doubles... |
| 20:07.17 | ``Erik | it ain't rocket science |
| 20:07.20 | Maloeran | Eheh, neat |
| 20:07.41 | ``Erik | so, yeah, *grar* |
| 20:07.57 | ``Erik | what's the name of the milestone spreadsheet? |
| 20:08.04 | Maloeran | Oh by the way, are long doubles of any interest or I can forget them? |
| 20:08.18 | ``Erik | "long doubles" as in 128b? |
| 20:08.28 | Maloeran | Hum, mine is called Rayforce_Meeting_Minutes.060822.doc |
| 20:08.41 | Maloeran | As in whatever long doubles happen to be on the arch |
| 20:08.57 | ``Erik | hm, I thought there was an excel file |
| 20:08.59 | Maloeran | I just need to fix my #ifdef all over the code if you want more than float and double |
| 20:10.02 | Maloeran | The excel file is included in that one for me, I don't think I have anything else |
| 20:13.31 | Maloeran | If possibe, I would like to get some time to complete the prep and raytracing pipelines, including multiple intersections and segment construction, before getting into distributed processing |
| 20:14.14 | Maloeran | It is akward to distribute processing for code that is... incomplete |
| 20:38.44 | Maloeran | Ew, sorry. |
| 20:52.50 | ``Erik | jfc. |
| 20:52.50 | ``Erik | OK |
| 20:52.54 | ``Erik | now I'm at my computer. |
| 20:53.54 | ``Erik | regression suite isn't running yet? |
| 20:58.16 | Maloeran | No, I was waiting to get a good model to stick to, the truck will do |
| 20:58.39 | Maloeran | Although I'm not entirely certain what it's supposed to do, takes a bunch of screenshots, check for correctness and record performance? |
| 20:58.51 | ``Erik | pretty much, yeah |
| 20:59.14 | Maloeran | Okay, that really won't take long |
| 20:59.42 | ``Erik | if the machine it'll be cron'd on has brlcad, we can use pixdiff or pixcmp or something |
| 20:59.45 | Maloeran | As for the API, it has been completed since before the contract started |
| 20:59.58 | Maloeran | All right, so noted |
| 21:00.49 | ``Erik | voxels down to 15 days? |
| 21:01.02 | Maloeran | Seems reasonable to me, it should be very simple |
| 21:01.16 | ``Erik | "prep and pipeline" right now? how many days? 15? |
| 21:01.41 | Maloeran | Two weeks would be great, though distributed processing will be tight with two weeks |
| 21:02.05 | ``Erik | hmmm, distributed would be after mpi/ip? |
| 21:02.26 | Maloeran | That's pretty much the same thing in my book :) |
| 21:02.55 | ``Erik | <-- is shuffling numbers and order here, tryin gto figure out what to present up |
| 21:03.24 | Maloeran | It's probably because I try to get every part fully done as I move on, rather than just meet some basic requirements |
| 21:03.24 | ``Erik | well, half, and teh big ones are at the end |
| 21:03.30 | ``Erik | probably |
| 21:03.44 | Maloeran | I have written a bunch of stuff for dynamic geometry already |
| 21:03.44 | ``Erik | can we cut down on dynamic geometry, then? move some time there to prep&pipeline? |
| 21:04.09 | Maloeran | Maybe a week, but I could use a while there ; there are unsolved questions to explore |
| 21:04.41 | ``Erik | you have 47 days listed, if I can hoist some to prep&pipeline... |
| 21:05.02 | ``Erik | <-- would like to show 'em something saying that you're at or ahead of what the schedule says you should be :D |
| 21:05.22 | Maloeran | Agreed :), hrm |
| 21:05.57 | Maloeran | One week to finish the prep, one week to finish raytracing pipelines including multiple intersection ( which leads to segment construction ) |
| 21:06.10 | ``Erik | can you cope with 'excel'? or do I need to be in a different format |
| 21:06.22 | Maloeran | ooffice2 can cope |
| 21:06.57 | Maloeran | One extra week on distributed processing ( IP/MPI ) ; Two weeks out of voxel, one week out of dynamic geomerty |
| 21:07.13 | Maloeran | What do you think? |
| 21:07.32 | Maloeran | Actually, I won't need two weeks on segment construction, that's easy |
| 21:08.07 | ``Erik | efnet... |
| 21:09.25 | Maloeran | Received, a bunch of ### in there |
| 22:09.59 | Twingy | moo |
| 22:43.56 | *** join/#brlcad pra5ad (n=prasad@pool-70-16-21-23.balt.east.verizon.net) | |
| 22:44.36 | pra5ad | where can i find the slad directory online? |
| 22:44.46 | pra5ad | or is there one i can access from home? |
| 22:46.32 | Maloeran | Hey prasad, long time no see here, not that I can be of any help on the questions |
| 22:47.37 | pra5ad | hey man |
| 22:47.42 | pra5ad | how's life as a contractor |
| 22:48.41 | Maloeran | I would like to say "relaxing", but the work is fairly demanding while quite enjoyable. Do you still have some vague interest in the dream of building raytracing hardware? ;) |
| 22:52.12 | pra5ad | sure do |
| 22:53.34 | Maloeran | I don't think you have access to the cvs, I'll hand some url to a very short document on the techniques used if you are interested |
| 22:55.06 | Maloeran | If you have a look, feel free to share if it makes some sense, it's... rather short and right to the point |
| 22:56.14 | pra5ad | will take a look |
| 22:56.26 | pra5ad | what is the slad intranet url? |
| 22:56.28 | pra5ad | anyone? |
| 23:10.54 | ``Erik | which, uh, intranet url? heh |
| 23:17.06 | pra5ad | nm |
| 23:17.17 | *** part/#brlcad pra5ad (n=prasad@pool-70-16-21-23.balt.east.verizon.net) | |
| 23:39.30 | Maloeran | Seems he doesn't plan on hanging around |
| 23:42.25 | ``Erik | he sucks |
| 23:42.45 | ``Erik | too busy chasing tail I guess |
| 23:45.33 | Maloeran | That's a metaphor for spending time on unproductive things? |
| 23:50.34 | ``Erik | heh, uh |
| 23:50.46 | ``Erik | not unproductive.. .more... reproductive... |
| 23:50.47 | ``Erik | O:-) |
| 23:52.11 | Maloeran | Oh, hum. Unproductive too then |
| 23:54.27 | ``Erik | heh |
| 23:56.08 | Maloeran | I can vary performance vs memory consumption a whole lot, I suppose the regression test suite should try a few settings |
| 23:56.49 | ``Erik | if we can express that as a curve and tehn map the progression of the curve over time, that'd be gnarly |
| 23:56.52 | Maloeran | I'm annoyed by the huge amount of memory the prep takes, I could reduce that greatly by sacrificing a bit of graph quality |
| 23:57.32 | Maloeran | What about a text file? :) Not that generating curves take a long time to write |
| 23:58.01 | ``Erik | 'curve' might be a couple numbers in the end |
| 23:58.14 | ``Erik | as long as we can do SOMETHING to achieve some understanding of the change over time |
| 23:58.22 | Maloeran | Sure, okay |
| 00:10.58 | Maloeran | That truck is so saturated of degenerative cases which produce packed long thin triangles. Performance will suddently bump up at some point when I write the missing prep pass |
| 00:35.48 | brlcad | that's an interesting feat because there's about 3 predominant coding styles in brl-cad |
| 00:36.16 | brlcad | at least until I finally run source formatting to make it all consistent |
| 00:36.21 | Maloeran | Yes I noticed, I tried to get used to the one documented in HACKING |
| 00:36.28 | brlcad | ahh |
| 00:36.43 | Maloeran | ( though I fail miserably ) |
| 00:37.03 | brlcad | that's mostly K&R style |
| 00:37.31 | brlcad | the next most popular is probably BSD style |
| 00:38.45 | Maloeran | Yes... I learned C at 12 without internet or books, just a compiler and some code ; I don't think I follow any standard |
| 00:43.58 | Maloeran | and I learned x86 assembly from typing gcc -S instead of gcc -s once by mistake ;), the old good days |
| 00:44.29 | brlcad | :) |
| 01:34.49 | *** join/#brlcad korrupthed (n=squee@bas1-london14-1167879640.dsl.bell.ca) | |
| 01:35.46 | korrupthed | the site is not comin up .. n e one got a download link i can follow? |
| 01:39.48 | *** part/#brlcad korrupthed (n=squee@bas1-london14-1167879640.dsl.bell.ca) | |
| 02:27.39 | brlcad | damn sourceforge |
| 02:28.05 | brlcad | i think they're blocking us as we are several hundred MB over quota |
| 02:28.13 | brlcad | i'll put in a request for an increase |
| 02:28.27 | brlcad | in the meantime, there's the mirror: http://ftp.brlcad.org/ |
| 02:28.35 | Maloeran | You mean there were too many downloads of brlcad? |
| 02:28.48 | Maloeran | Perhaps that should go in the topic |
| 02:29.13 | *** topic/#brlcad by brlcad -> http://ftp.brlcad.org (mirror of http://brlcad.org, down for 'maintenance') || BRL-CAD is an open source solid modeling software suite || Developers needed! Read the HACKING file for details on getting involved || Release 7.8.4 is posted, next release will be 7.10.0 | |
| 02:29.20 | brlcad | you were saying? :) |
| 02:29.35 | brlcad | nobody reads the topic, but there it is |
| 02:29.41 | brlcad | not too many downloads |
| 02:30.35 | brlcad | there is a default quota on the amount of space you can utilize on the web space provided to projects (which is separate from the project pages and the file release system section) |
| 02:31.00 | Maloeran | Ah, I see |
| 02:31.02 | brlcad | we already have a massively increased quota on the file release system as each release uses about a GB if all binaries are made |
| 02:31.27 | Twingy | larger than open office? |
| 02:31.39 | brlcad | but for the web space, ti's still the default 100MB, and we're at 300MB or so |
| 02:31.54 | brlcad | Twingy: no idea |
| 02:32.13 | Twingy | what are you paying for you colo? |
| 02:32.21 | brlcad | probably, just because there are so many more binaries |
| 02:32.47 | brlcad | it's not a colo, it's dedicated |
| 02:33.02 | Twingy | I thought you payed for a colo somewhere for brlcad.org |
| 02:33.13 | brlcad | brlcad.org is sf.net |
| 02:33.19 | Twingy | you gave it up? |
| 02:33.34 | brlcad | .bz (i.e. ftp.brlcad.org and bzflag.bz) is my server |
| 02:33.43 | Twingy | that's colo right? |
| 02:33.50 | brlcad | no, it's dedicated.. :) |
| 02:34.04 | brlcad | i get the whole box, the whole pipe |
| 02:34.09 | brlcad | i just don't own the hardware |
| 02:34.16 | Twingy | oh yea, ok |
| 02:34.17 | brlcad | less fuss |
| 02:34.19 | Twingy | what are you paying for that |
| 02:34.33 | brlcad | i don't recall exactly, it's pettance |
| 02:34.38 | brlcad | ~spell pettance |
| 02:34.49 | brlcad | something like 65 |
| 02:35.02 | Twingy | I just switched to comcast workplace 6Mb/768 for $80 a mo, they got 8Mb/1Mb for like $100 something |
| 02:35.09 | Twingy | no bandwidth cap |
| 02:35.17 | Twingy | static ip etc |
| 02:35.25 | brlcad | "no bandwidth cap" |
| 02:35.50 | brlcad | 768 up would be a killer |
| 02:36.01 | Twingy | how about 1Mb? |
| 02:36.55 | Maloeran | Connections sure are expensive down there, I'm paying less for a 10mbits commercial |
| 02:37.11 | Maloeran | And they are paying half of that for 20mbits in Norway and Sweden, but.. :) |
| 02:37.16 | Twingy | I think bandwidth is proportional to the population of the area |
| 02:37.38 | Maloeran | Ah yes, indeed |
| 02:37.43 | brlcad | 1M might work, but that's still less than what I have |
| 02:38.01 | Twingy | but you have hands on access to your box so you could use one box as raid/fileserver/webserver |
| 02:38.08 | brlcad | I can sustain 4Mbit over the entire month before I cap out, about 1.5TB |
| 02:38.17 | Twingy | kk |
| 02:38.57 | Twingy | I've pondered the idea of doing colo here and using solar panels to power machines |
| 02:39.37 | Twingy | the little 500MHz nano-itx boards only use 2.5W |
| 02:39.38 | brlcad | i'm about to replicate to a server in germany soon, need redundancy on some of the services for bz and some of the web hosts |
| 02:40.01 | Twingy | they would be very economical to offer dedicated on |
| 02:40.05 | brlcad | the deal is about the same there, maybe 5 bucks cheaper even |
| 02:40.21 | brlcad | heh |
| 02:40.29 | brlcad | "Site Down due to cloudy day" |
| 02:40.33 | Twingy | naw |
| 02:40.37 | Twingy | it's grid tied |
| 02:41.22 | Twingy | for folks that don't need much bandwidth, I could probly pitch it for $29.95/mo for your own box |
| 02:42.11 | Twingy | I'd prefer charging based on bandwidth and power consumption though |
| 02:42.22 | Twingy | that'd be real easy to compute |
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| 13:51.32 | *** join/#brlcad Maloeran (n=maloeran@195.139.172.210) | |
| 16:01.04 | brlcad | brlcad.org isn't down because of quota usage apparently, it was a larger vhost problem that affected lots of projects not just ours |
| 16:01.24 | brlcad | since it's just vhost services, brlcad.sourceforge.net actually still works as one would expect |
| 16:18.21 | Maloeran | Erik or brlcad, what's the little program found in brlcad to convert raw pixels to pix or some other format? ( to use pixdiff ) |
| 16:42.15 | brlcad | pix files are raw image files |
| 16:43.14 | brlcad | first quadrant, integer array, interlaced, 8 bit per channel, 3 channel (RGB) |
| 16:43.37 | Maloeran | Okay, I was not seeing any output, but the files are indeed identical |
| 16:43.47 | brlcad | so basically, if you just write out RGBRGBRGB, you can use pixdiff |
| 16:43.57 | Maloeran | *nod* Thanks |
| 16:44.40 | brlcad | try pixcmp |
| 16:44.47 | brlcad | more numerically informative |
| 16:45.35 | Maloeran | Right, that will do nicely |
| 16:47.29 | brlcad | the brl-cad benchmark uses that same tool to validate results, off by one values are 'okay', but off by many from the expected results are considered an error |
| 16:48.03 | Maloeran | You will get "off by many" whenever a ray happens to hit the edge of a triangle or not |
| 16:48.19 | Maloeran | I'm just comparing my scalar vs SSE packed paths, and : 1432833 matching, 7164 off by 1, 3 off by many |
| 16:50.06 | Maloeran | If we were to raytracer the counter of a single triangle, just the ray-triangle intersection algorithm used will make a few pixels bump in or out |
| 16:50.21 | Maloeran | to raytrace the contour |
| 16:51.03 | brlcad | it's to say that you're usually comparing to stable results with something that should be the similar or the same situation |
| 16:51.39 | brlcad | if you can explain the deviation, demonstrably (not just intuition), then it's generally a non-issue |
| 16:52.33 | brlcad | but it's often been the case where off by many errors have cropped up even in rt that "seemed reasonable" at a glance that could be explained away as floating point or edge cases, etc, only to find out later that there was numerical instability not being accounted for |
| 16:53.41 | Maloeran | Yes, I'll have to check my math on that later on too |
| 16:54.03 | brlcad | intuitively, the scalar vs sse packed paths can of course be different if only because of different mathematical manipulations, but it not necessarily the case that you can't get them to have no off by many values ;) |
| 16:54.49 | ``Erik | *yawn* |
| 16:54.55 | brlcad | food coma? |
| 16:55.00 | ``Erik | kinda |
| 16:55.08 | ``Erik | bigassed morning meeting contributing |
| 16:55.10 | Maloeran | Just the order of operations would change the result |
| 16:55.36 | brlcad | sure would |
| 16:55.54 | brlcad | but how much and whether the drift is something that can be adjusted for is another issue |
| 16:56.01 | brlcad | maybe, maybe not |
| 16:56.30 | Maloeran | I could use pictures out of ADRT or so, to rely on as a reference |
| 16:56.38 | brlcad | the point is usually to trace the ray and watch the results to be able to deterministicly say why it's different |
| 16:56.56 | brlcad | yeah, though you'll probably have issues matching cameras |
| 16:57.16 | Maloeran | Yes... and ADRT seemed to rely on magical constants, I'm not sure if that's really reliable |
| 16:57.18 | brlcad | and even then, you're still bound to have off by lots |
| 16:58.27 | brlcad | i had a little fun a few weeks ago, took a single sphere and ray-traced it with rt |
| 16:59.15 | Maloeran | I assume librt is fairly accurate overall |
| 16:59.17 | brlcad | then proceeded to tessellate the sphere to varying orders of |
| 16:59.25 | brlcad | facetization |
| 17:00.08 | brlcad | using pixcmp to compare the differences, increasing the tessellation at each level to see how closely I could minimize the deviation error |
| 17:00.14 | brlcad | it was rather interesting |
| 17:00.53 | brlcad | I couldn't make the off by manys go away, but was able to reduce them to a mere hundred or so on a 512x512 |
| 17:01.12 | Maloeran | That's about what I would expect |
| 17:01.25 | brlcad | ended up getting up to 10M triangles before getting bored with it iirc |
| 17:02.48 | brlcad | which is about 50 triangles per pixel? :) |
| 17:03.25 | Maloeran | :) You'll always get many "off by many" near the edge, especially in a case like this |
| 17:04.01 | Maloeran | I get many "off by one" just for supplying the vectors to the API or having them automatically generated |
| 17:04.14 | brlcad | actually, the edges were dead on |
| 17:04.59 | brlcad | the off by many errors were around a highly specular hilight area |
| 17:05.07 | brlcad | which also makes sense |
| 17:05.43 | brlcad | where a tiny deviation results in a wrong energy contribution |
| 17:05.49 | Maloeran | The edges were correct? I'm surprised, the wonders of double precision I guess |
| 17:06.36 | brlcad | with enough triangles, I was actually able to get a majority of the sphere to not have even off by one errors |
| 17:07.11 | brlcad | but we are talking about lik 1M triangles.. for just one .. sphere .. :) |
| 17:08.07 | Maloeran | I think results would have been off for many pixels if you had used floats, not matter how many triangles were used |
| 17:08.23 | brlcad | probably |
| 17:08.29 | brlcad | an exercise for another day |
| 17:08.42 | Maloeran | As accuracy is so critical, I guess I'll have to write a SSE2 double precision path |
| 17:09.42 | brlcad | i was just more interested with sort of estimating how many triangles will it generally take to get the energy deviation to match the implicit within some % |
| 17:15.38 | brlcad | front, top, left, 35,25, and a few random ;) |
| 17:16.46 | Maloeran | Traversal is faster for axis-aligned points of view, that would be a bit biased |
| 17:18.27 | Maloeran | Any thoughts on if I need to test scalar, scalar with vector generation, SSE, SSE with gen, double, etc.? That list could be long |
| 17:18.41 | Maloeran | On top of various combinations of preparation quality/memory/speed hints |
| 17:21.18 | brlcad | that's why only three would be axis aligned |
| 17:21.38 | brlcad | but those happen to be .. frequently used views for various purposes, so it's also relevant |
| 17:21.46 | Maloeran | *nod* Okay |
| 17:23.19 | brlcad | not really sure about what all you need to test.. that depends on a lot of factors, especially the expected use and need |
| 17:23.47 | brlcad | though following the scientific process would make me lean towards testing them all especially given it's just going to be automated |
| 17:24.19 | Maloeran | It just implies I need two libraries to test float and double, for example |
| 17:27.15 | ``Erik | why? build for float, run tests, b uild for double, run tests... |
| 17:29.48 | *** join/#brlcad PrezKennedy (n=Apathy@c-68-55-177-2.hsd1.md.comcast.net) | |
| 17:32.18 | Maloeran | The front-end is meant to support multiple libraries already though, if I can figure how to do that with autoconf. On a different topic, the triangles of truck_bots.g sure are not oriented in a coherent way |
| 17:32.46 | Maloeran | Any simple brlcad command to attempt fixing this? |
| 18:01.43 | ``Erik | oriented as in uniform winding? |
| 18:04.06 | Maloeran | Preferably, yes |
| 18:18.29 | Maloeran | Logically, when converting from CSG to triangles, it should be terribly simple to orient the triangles properly |
| 18:18.59 | Maloeran | You know very well what is "in" and what is "out" at that point |
| 18:19.35 | ``Erik | yeah, logically... |
| 18:19.43 | ``Erik | but the converter is... imperfect. |
| 18:20.13 | Maloeran | That's what should be fixed, rather than trying to fix the triangles afterwards or raytracing results |
| 19:11.47 | Maloeran | Eh well, Mark forgot the arrangements for the conference and Beatrice doesn't seem to be taking her emails ; registration is only possible on-site now. I think I'll have to try an ancient audio communication device |
| 19:13.59 | ``Erik | what conference? |
| 19:14.23 | Maloeran | Baltimore visualization conference |
| 19:14.29 | Maloeran | Oct 29 to Nov 3 or so |
| 19:30.45 | Maloeran | No more success by phone. With some luck, I'll just miss that conference ;) |
| 19:39.54 | ``Erik | ah, heh |
| 19:40.05 | ``Erik | I'd rather be going to nycbsdcon :/ |
| 19:40.08 | ``Erik | stupid overlap |
| 19:45.53 | ``Erik | but on sourceforge, it doesn't have the dash in the short project name, brl-cad :) |
| 19:46.21 | archivist | and this room is minus the - |
| 19:47.31 | brlcad | ``Erik: yep, and there's actually documentation written about exactly when it's okay |
| 19:47.33 | Maloeran | Eh well, pick a different nickname? ;) |
| 19:47.35 | brlcad | which I can see you haven't read :) |
| 19:48.43 | brlcad | it's not because I use brlcad or not, it's to retain coherency/consistency on the name of the project |
| 19:49.02 | brlcad | e.g. BRL-CAD is the official name, dash and all |
| 19:50.06 | brlcad | speaking of which.. |
| 19:52.50 | ``Erik | it's ok when I say it's, brl-cad :> |
| 19:53.48 | ``Erik | alexis: I was in err on the 'bundle' statement, it just means packets of rays, and limiting to either all parallel or all co-originating is ok |
| 19:54.10 | ``Erik | also; the conference thingy, it's not about the conference, it's about presense in the area (meeting type crap) according to lee |
| 19:54.55 | Maloeran | That's fine for Lee, but I'm not really fond of that |
| 19:55.05 | ``Erik | parse which? my tongue in cheek statement about it (brlcad vs BRL-CAD) being ok when I say it's ok? :D |
| 19:56.04 | Maloeran | Thanks for the clarification on ray bundles, that's quite simple |
| 19:56.08 | ``Erik | mal: I just reported status, and carried response back *shrug* technically, this is between lee and mark, and then mark and you |
| 19:56.09 | tofu | it's all good, but it does dilute slightly to not be consistent even as minor as it is |
| 19:56.14 | ``Erik | sorry about the misinformation earlier :) |
| 19:57.07 | ``Erik | well, the 'perspective' case is not necessarily a regular grid of rays, it could be a random-looking scattering generated by someone elses software... |
| 19:57.29 | Maloeran | Of course so, one can supply arbitrary vectors if so desired |
| 19:57.35 | ``Erik | like, say, if I'm using it to do radiosity and I have an optimization where I don't shoot as many towards darker areas *shrug* |
| 19:58.12 | Maloeran | "Reported status", that implies uncompleted regression tests right? :) There's not much missing |
| 19:58.19 | ``Erik | heh, arl-cad :D |
| 19:58.44 | ``Erik | um, 'reported status' was more like "clarify a couple things for me, and oh, he might not make it to the conference" |
| 19:59.17 | Maloeran | Any reason provided or asked for not making it to the conference? |
| 19:59.20 | tofu | ~nickometer ``Erik |
| 19:59.23 | ``Erik | http://hardware.slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=201421&cid=16490605 |
| 19:59.27 | ``Erik | hah |
| 19:59.33 | ``Erik | ~nickometer tofu |
| 19:59.41 | ``Erik | wow, lame script |
| 19:59.42 | ``Erik | :) |
| 19:59.54 | Maloeran | ~nickometer Maloeran |
| 20:00.04 | ``Erik | must be my stealth marks |
| 20:00.20 | Maloeran | Your stealth marks are no match for a french canadian keymap |
| 20:00.44 | ``Erik | the keymap isn't where the stealth comes from, it's the character map on ... lesser os's. |
| 20:01.03 | ``Erik | (many windows/mirc users think it's ''erik, and get confused when they can't whois or privmsg me) |
| 20:01.21 | ``Erik | http://content.ytmnd.com/content/a/2/2/a224551a525ebf5e30cedf1f4ae16b99.gif |
| 20:01.31 | Maloeran | Speaking of which, I wonder how you do ^ with an us/en keymap, is the character used for anything besides programming? |
| 20:02.17 | Maloeran | Ahaha |
| 20:02.18 | ``Erik | shift-6 |
| 20:02.43 | Maloeran | "Accept teaching without resistance". I sure remember why I quit school |
| 20:03.10 | ``Erik | only at the worst primary schools |
| 20:03.37 | ``Erik | secondary schools tend to be a lot more involved with a lot more participation and a lot less teacher idiocity |
| 20:04.00 | ``Erik | (it's a GOOD thing if you cna prove the professor wrong :) |
| 20:04.35 | Maloeran | I went to a good high school, for musically gifted people where 55% of the time there was spent on music.. so it was bearable |
| 20:04.41 | Maloeran | College was a shock |
| 20:06.04 | Maloeran | I was thrown out of a physics class there for arguing with the teacher about the spin of electrons, I had my Hawking book to prove my point, I quit the following day |
| 20:06.34 | ``Erik | wow, I'd seen similar arguments, never seen that result, though... |
| 20:06.38 | ``Erik | colleges in canada must suck ass |
| 20:07.15 | Maloeran | I went to a fairly "normal" college, out of a high-end school for talented people, so the shock was brutal |
| 20:08.12 | Maloeran | I'm sure there are stupid teachers everywhere |
| 20:08.53 | ``Erik | definitely, but some environments are more accepting of stupid behaviors than others |
| 20:09.32 | Maloeran | It wasn't just the teachers, the pace was so terribly slow, the students were so.. ignorant and unmotivated. It was a radical change of environment |
| 20:10.05 | Maloeran | But I really had enough of violin after 10 years, seriously :) |
| 20:16.35 | ``Erik | heh, unless you go down into the city, it's called a "fiddle" here... ;> *duck* |
| 20:17.28 | ``Erik | and brl-cad is from the land of fiddles, banjos, and toothless people in overalls, pheer wv *duck* :D |
| 20:18.27 | Maloeran | Cool, need a violin for the ARL orchestra or something? :) |
| 20:18.39 | ``Erik | heh |
| 20:20.08 | ``Erik | damn openbsd does not compile pretty. |
| 20:22.22 | Maloeran | Compiling obsd or compiling something there? |
| 20:22.28 | ``Erik | compiling obsd's world |
| 20:22.30 | ``Erik | keeps breaking |
| 20:26.12 | ``Erik | hm, rayforce fails on my leenewx opterwang thingy |
| 20:26.22 | ``Erik | Preparation time : 35.583 seconds |
| 20:26.22 | ``Erik | Error flag : 0 |
| 20:26.22 | ``Erik | -- Memory allocation listing at ../../../RF/context.c:208 -- |
| 20:26.23 | ``Erik | <PROTECTED> |
| 20:28.59 | Maloeran | What's faling? |
| 20:29.01 | Maloeran | failing, even |
| 20:29.09 | ``Erik | also; "The posix_memalign() function is part of the Advisory Information option and need not be provided on all implementations." (per http://www.opengroup.org/onlinepubs/000095399/functions/posix_memalign.html ) |
| 20:29.29 | Maloeran | Right, I'll change that soon |
| 20:30.04 | Maloeran | 35 seconds is awful somehow |
| 20:30.06 | ``Erik | um, I don't know what's failing? heh, it generates an rtch file, about twice as big as the rtml |
| 20:30.13 | ``Erik | well, that's an amd64 linux box |
| 20:30.34 | ``Erik | uhhh, and the roter lowe |
| 20:30.35 | Maloeran | The cache file uses 64 bits indices, so it's big |
| 20:30.44 | ``Erik | -rw------- 1 erikg 42 88915180 Oct 18 16:25 roter-lowe.rtch |
| 20:30.51 | Maloeran | Woah :) |
| 20:31.36 | Maloeran | I'm aware that cache files need some packing |
| 20:32.06 | ``Erik | $ uname -osrvmpi |
| 20:32.06 | ``Erik | Linux 2.6.9-42.0.2.ELsmp #1 SMP Thu Aug 17 17:57:31 EDT 2006 x86_64 x86_64 x86_64 GNU/Linux |
| 20:32.27 | Maloeran | Does it render otherwise? What do you mean by failing? |
| 20:32.31 | ``Erik | but when it gets done generating the cache file, reports the error code (0), then says a list is empty and exits |
| 20:33.01 | Maloeran | That means no error occured and there's no memory leak. envCreateWindow() must have failed |
| 20:33.15 | Maloeran | The SDL window creation |
| 20:33.49 | Maloeran | It's not clear how it could fail though |
| 20:34.01 | ``Erik | that did it |
| 20:34.08 | ``Erik | DISPLAY wasn't set |
| 20:34.18 | Maloeran | Yes, that explains it |
| 20:35.02 | ``Erik | around 7-14 fps (depending on how much is in view) |
| 20:35.32 | Maloeran | For the M1 model? |
| 20:36.04 | Maloeran | That's acceptable for now, tracing of volumes ( or frustum culling, whatever you want to call it ) will bump the numbers up soon |
| 20:36.07 | ``Erik | the boat |
| 20:36.15 | ``Erik | the model that shouldn't be is 7-9 |
| 20:36.42 | ``Erik | I have a feeling that the remote X part might be bottlenecking it now |
| 20:37.03 | Maloeran | 7-14fps on the 1.7m frigate despites all the diagonal ropes all over the place? That's not too bad |
| 20:37.22 | Maloeran | Every ray is being traced entirely at the moment ; there's no volume tracing at all, so I'm not displeased with that |
| 20:37.25 | ``Erik | well, the deck is barely visible, since the camera is kinda below the keel, heh |
| 20:37.53 | ``Erik | and when it swings around, the camera goes through the inside |
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| 20:38.53 | Maloeran | Yes well, you have to uncomment the other origin[] in main.c |
| 20:39.23 | Maloeran | The boat and the M1 have different scales and origins, so you have to switch between two blocks of code from one model to the other. That will be cleaner eventually ;) |
| 20:41.39 | ``Erik | 2.4-2.8 with the ship and the right origin, heh |
| 20:42.08 | Maloeran | That's much more like it |
| 20:42.31 | Maloeran | I never tried the boat with the SSE code, I think the laptop's ram is not enough to prep |
| 20:42.58 | ``Erik | hm, I have the ram |
| 20:43.07 | ``Erik | this 8 core opteron has 32g ram |
| 20:43.10 | ``Erik | and 1.8ghz chips |
| 20:43.11 | Maloeran | Eheh |
| 20:43.24 | ``Erik | noisy piece of shit, too |
| 20:43.31 | Maloeran | It will perform... better with volume tracing, a fixed prep, and threads |
| 20:43.38 | ``Erik | gimme threaded distributed code, boy :D |
| 20:44.03 | ``Erik | 24 opterons should have a fair amount of push |
| 20:44.11 | Maloeran | I know! :) I'll complete the code before distributing it though |
| 20:44.45 | ``Erik | 43.2 ghz of opteron unfage, with 96g of ram |
| 20:45.45 | Maloeran | 35 seconds of prep was the frigate? |
| 20:46.19 | ``Erik | yeah |
| 20:46.20 | Maloeran | I'm just making sure, I had enough weird experiences with absurd prep times on your boxes... :) |
| 20:46.22 | Maloeran | Good |
| 20:46.37 | ``Erik | only 7.2g disk space, though |
| 20:46.41 | ``Erik | er |
| 20:46.42 | ``Erik | 7.2tb |
| 20:46.44 | ``Erik | heh |
| 20:47.26 | Maloeran | Cool, I'm sure I can come up with a cache file format to fill that |
| 20:47.47 | Maloeran | XML-based layed out binary, a bit at a time, with 256 bits indexing |
| 20:51.15 | ``Erik | heh, 'xml based' was enough... :( |
| 20:51.29 | ``Erik | the most verbose and useless reinvention of s-expressions I've ever seen |
| 20:51.47 | Maloeran | It's much better when used to describe binary data too |
| 20:54.23 | ``Erik | xml... based... |
| 20:54.33 | ``Erik | :> |
| 20:59.34 | Maloeran | That's the spirit! XML, SQL and Java are the future |
| 20:59.41 | ``Erik | if you strap a piece of buttered toast to the back of a cat, butter side up, and drop the cat out a window, it will fall to approximately a foot above the street, and hover there, spinning. |
| 21:00.10 | ``Erik | huh... xml, sql, and java... that combo sounds, uh, familiar. |
| 21:00.32 | archivist | na not my cat as it is devoid of self righting and ... life |
| 21:01.15 | ``Erik | throw in jini, hibernate, rio, 'naked objects', service based architecture, and an obscene focus on process, content management, control, and cmmi and you have yourself a winner... |
| 21:01.17 | ``Erik | *cough* |
| 21:02.28 | archivist | buzz words give me headaches |
| 21:03.02 | ``Erik | archivist: that was the quick&dirty description of the software project I recently escaped from... I foresee... no success wrt to it. |
| 21:03.57 | Maloeran | We should write a distributed processing raytracer for it, where every sector, node and triangle access goes through a SQL query |
| 21:04.17 | ``Erik | they were, uh |
| 21:04.22 | ``Erik | talking about kinda doing that actually |
| 21:04.29 | ``Erik | because the jni interface to librt is "too hard" |
| 21:04.40 | Maloeran | Ahahah |
| 21:04.40 | archivist | I just bought a book at the weekend as it had a buzz word on the cover and I thought I should be able to say I knew something about it |
| 21:04.44 | ``Erik | so they were gonna write the raytrace component in java |
| 21:04.45 | ``Erik | *cough* |
| 21:04.57 | Maloeran | This is so sad |
| 21:05.05 | archivist | even php would be faster |
| 21:05.50 | ``Erik | well done php would be faster than what they're trying to do, yes... but well done java CAN be 'reasonable' performance-wise... well done java is rare, though |
| 21:06.06 | ``Erik | people either approach is as 'weird c++' or go way overboard on oo :( |
| 21:06.12 | Maloeran | If you do care about performance, just don't use Java |
| 21:06.16 | ``Erik | very few understand how a jvm works |
| 21:07.08 | archivist | "overboard on oo" they've read too much UML bs |
| 21:08.03 | ``Erik | class Blah extend Meh {} <-- common construct. |
| 21:08.09 | ``Erik | extends, even |
| 21:08.13 | ``Erik | *cough* |
| 21:08.53 | archivist | tis right to be bitter about extends crap upon crap |
| 21:09.21 | ``Erik | dude, I could literally bitch for hours |
| 21:09.22 | ``Erik | :) |
| 21:09.57 | Maloeran | That doomed Java project must have caused a profound psychological trauma |
| 21:10.07 | Maloeran | As it would have for any other sane programmer |
| 21:10.09 | archivist | oo has created a new kind of quck and dirty programming |
| 21:10.54 | ``Erik | not so much quick, just a whole lot of dirty? :D |
| 21:11.55 | Maloeran | I think it's quick for very simple thing, but it doesn't scale |
| 21:12.00 | Maloeran | things* |
| 22:06.24 | ``Erik | heh, baltimore has all that if you go downtown, too *shrug* :) |
| 22:08.40 | Maloeran | Oh I'm sure it does. Until I moved two weeks ago, I wasn't in reach of delivery for the really good restaurants |
| 22:19.17 | tofu | mmm.. indian food |
| 22:19.28 | tofu | i miss living in the city |
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| 00:47.43 | Maloeran | Erik, will you be the one running the regression tests on some box or am I? |
| 00:48.14 | Maloeran | I don't suppose I'll have reference images to begin with, I can only monitor how it changes over time from what I presently have |
| 00:54.17 | ``Erik | regression tests should be a script that can be cron'd nightly |
| 00:54.27 | ``Erik | I presume that either you or survice will be running them on some set of boxes |
| 00:54.54 | ``Erik | and if it looks logical to me, I'll be running them on a larger set of boxes, perhaps with radically different data (that we can't give you), and gateway what info I can to you |
| 00:55.06 | Maloeran | Nightly? Hrmph. |
| 00:55.29 | Maloeran | Once a week will do. Sounds good then |
| 00:57.40 | Maloeran | http://www.rayforce.net/log.txt Anything missing, besides the pixdiff? |
| 00:59.02 | Maloeran | Ah, are separate tests for both floats and doubles important? |
| 01:00.22 | Maloeran | This is the laptop and some points of view were put on the "bad spots" with sectors of > 50 triangles, to hopefully see a good improvement there soon |
| 01:11.42 | Maloeran | Bwah, I get differences in images from the quality settings of the prep. That doesn't look like good news :) |
| 01:40.53 | ``Erik | I would argue that doubles are important. floats are irrelevant... better than double would be nice, but not necessary... |
| 01:40.58 | ``Erik | but that's my opinion |
| 01:41.06 | ``Erik | and I'm just a peon *shrug* |
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| 10:24.31 | ``Erik | *yawn* |
| 11:33.13 | Maloeran | Good morning |
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| 23:50.07 | ``Erik | http://www.webpark.ru/uploads16/ubertachka_1.jpg |
| 23:50.09 | ``Erik | http://www.webpark.ru/uploads16/ubertachka_2.jpg |
| 23:50.10 | ``Erik | awesome |
| 23:56.08 | Maloeran | Disturbing |
| 00:01.46 | brlcad | Maloeran: I'll be rather interested in about a week or two to get some data from you |
| 00:02.20 | brlcad | performance numbers |
| 00:03.05 | Twingy | vroom! |
| 00:03.05 | Maloeran | Sure. I'll have volume tracing ( ray bundles or whatever ) done by then, though other optimisations will be missing |
| 00:03.07 | brlcad | have a presentation to give and you're work will be a part of it |
| 00:03.23 | Maloeran | Oh? A presentation on BRL-CAD I assume? |
| 00:03.28 | Twingy | bzfrag |
| 00:03.40 | Twingy | ^-- chinese version |
| 00:03.42 | brlcad | on ray-tracing and brl-cad |
| 00:03.45 | dtidrow_work | lol |
| 00:04.42 | Maloeran | Neat, I'm hoping the new code will actually perform faster than the prototype by then. By the way, if you have any interest in the code, I'm sure it could be arranged |
| 00:05.30 | brlcad | basically how you compare will be the hilight, your approach (non-technical) and how it might be of interest to the audience for V/L |
| 00:06.49 | brlcad | i won't have time to look at the code for this, but it would be interesting to demo it on your behalf |
| 00:07.30 | Maloeran | Okay. I'll try to have it threaded, that would... help for a demo |
| 00:07.32 | Twingy | will there be donuts? |
| 00:07.46 | brlcad | there will be lots of lights |
| 00:07.55 | Twingy | pretty girls? |
| 00:08.02 | brlcad | pretty sure |
| 00:08.06 | Maloeran | Or failing that, there's the old prototype for use |
| 00:08.25 | Twingy | will you have Mr. T giving the introduction? |
| 00:08.25 | brlcad | Twingy: you hear the news about someone? |
| 00:08.28 | Maloeran | May I ask who will attend the presentation? |
| 00:08.34 | brlcad | nope, not going |
| 00:08.41 | Twingy | aww |
| 00:08.46 | brlcad | just me |
| 00:09.14 | Twingy | brlcad, unless I know who that somone is I know not the news you speak of |
| 00:09.36 | brlcad | you know who that someone is |
| 00:09.50 | Twingy | I know not the news |
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| 00:25.55 | Twingy | little caesars, the ramen noodles of pizza |
| 01:52.10 | dtidrow | lol |
| 01:57.09 | brlcad | mm.. ramen |
| 01:58.35 | dtidrow | btw, the owner of Little Ceasers also owns the Tigers (go Tigers!!!) |
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| 02:00.33 | alvin_lee | the program used to create the models is the mged? |
| 02:02.34 | Twingy | yes |
| 02:02.52 | Twingy | there is a manual with tutorials on the site |
| 02:03.27 | brlcad | dtidrow: heh, curious |
| 02:03.38 | brlcad | do they serve the pizza at the stadium? :) |
| 02:03.55 | dtidrow | probably - haven't been to the new one |
| 02:03.59 | brlcad | mm.. "the mged" |
| 02:04.25 | brlcad | that gives almost a sound of respectability to it |
| 02:04.44 | Twingy | mjed |
| 02:04.48 | brlcad | actually it fits with the original expanded name :) |
| 02:04.57 | brlcad | the multi-device... |
| 02:06.44 | dtidrow | your car doesn't have a cassette player? |
| 02:06.51 | brlcad | nope |
| 02:07.01 | brlcad | CD player, no input jack |
| 02:07.18 | dtidrow | new ones do |
| 02:07.32 | brlcad | yeah, well mine's not new :) |
| 02:07.44 | dtidrow | my wife's is a n '06, and it has an input jack |
| 02:07.47 | brlcad | and the connectors have been prevalent for more than a dcade |
| 02:07.56 | brlcad | s/dcade/decade even/ |
| 02:08.31 | brlcad | as have the proliferation of little audio devices |
| 02:09.18 | brlcad | hmm.. monster's looks good |
| 02:09.21 | brlcad | http://www.monstercable.com/computer/productPageComputer.asp?pin=2084&LastPage=Apple%20Products |
| 02:09.56 | dtidrow | yeah, you would think that they would have started to do that ever since portable cd players came out |
| 02:10.48 | brlcad | yep |
| 02:11.56 | dtidrow | oh well, glad I got the cd/cassette combo with my car |
| 02:12.09 | brlcad | :) |
| 02:12.33 | dtidrow | I just stuff a cassette adapter into the slot and plug in the music |
| 02:12.39 | dtidrow | and the XM radio |
| 02:13.38 | brlcad | unless it's a road trip |
| 02:13.56 | brlcad | which is why this is all the sudden of interest, trip up to boston tomorrow |
| 02:14.20 | dtidrow | ah |
| 02:16.45 | Maloeran | Mmhm. mcarp didn't quite have a great time with mged, I guess he's more into artistic rather than engineering modelling. Unfortunate |
| 02:18.27 | brlcad | not too surprising |
| 02:18.38 | brlcad | it's the least forgiving and most painful for new users |
| 02:18.48 | dtidrow | heh |
| 02:19.17 | brlcad | it starts out horrible and then slowly gets (much) better, but that's not an easy path for the nimble |
| 02:19.56 | brlcad | which is really a shame, because most of the underlying power is considerably better (or at least more extensive) than mged itself |
| 02:20.18 | Maloeran | I haven't really tried it ; from what I know, he found it bothersome to use commands for about everything |
| 02:20.48 | Maloeran | Perhaps there's room for improvement in the user interface then? |
| 02:20.51 | brlcad | that's actually one of the things I DO like most about it, the command line interface |
| 02:21.00 | brlcad | heh, room for improvement |
| 02:21.04 | brlcad | that's an understatement |
| 02:21.08 | Maloeran | :} |
| 02:21.13 | brlcad | it's the foundation of the new modeler environment |
| 02:25.20 | Maloeran | That conference room is a terrible raytracing benchmark, it's all cube-based and axis-aligned, large triangles to quickly fill up |
| 02:26.08 | brlcad | it's a semi-realistic environment, though as it's a "real place" |
| 02:26.18 | brlcad | as opposed to some object in a void or in a box |
| 02:26.48 | Maloeran | At least rotate the room by 30 degrees on two axis then |
| 02:27.25 | brlcad | a particular view at a teapot sitting inside the powerplant model sitting on some terrain would make for an interesting model ;) |
| 02:28.55 | Maloeran | Eheh. The two models I mentionned above are very difficult for acceleration structures, hence why I would like to see kd-trees on these |
| 02:29.32 | Maloeran | truck_bots are long thin triangles that are impossible to split up for binary trees, the frigate has ropes going everywhere |
| 02:30.02 | Maloeran | truck_bots has* long |
| 02:30.52 | brlcad | oh speaking of mcarp, another idea came to mind if he's entirely put off on using mged |
| 02:31.09 | Maloeran | Can you parse .ASE ? Model is 600mb of that text format |
| 02:31.10 | *** part/#brlcad alvin_lee (n=iuri@201-34-233-91.bsace704.dsl.brasiltelecom.net.br) | |
| 02:31.16 | Maloeran | What is it? |
| 02:31.42 | brlcad | he could use something like povray, so long as it was still primitives and csg |
| 02:32.10 | brlcad | or another cad package that could dump out IGES with nurbs objects perhaps "maybe" |
| 02:32.11 | Maloeran | I'll pass on the message |
| 02:32.18 | brlcad | but povray would be easy |
| 02:32.33 | brlcad | there are gui modelers for it too, various quality |
| 02:34.03 | Maloeran | I don't think he minds CSG, but the tools he uses couldn't natively export it and ends up converting to triangles |
| 02:34.41 | brlcad | right, and that's a problem for the specific reasons I wanted it |
| 02:35.13 | brlcad | (matching a historical reference) |
| 02:36.14 | brlcad | i really should get started on that geometry website soon |
| 02:36.45 | Maloeran | A repository of geometry? |
| 02:36.52 | brlcad | i'm curious how well it would take off with the right interface, whether the community really would jump in and start bringing the models together |
| 02:37.08 | brlcad | yeah |
| 02:37.21 | Maloeran | CSG or about anything? |
| 02:37.25 | brlcad | anything |
| 02:37.49 | Maloeran | Sounds good |
| 02:39.05 | brlcad | basically a database of models, with details about the content, geometry type characteristics (solid, csg, brep, hybrid, etc), statistics (model size, number of objects, polys, etc) |
| 02:40.15 | brlcad | automatically convert models to various formats, keeping track of versions and validity of the information like whether this particular triangle teapot is the "original" or whether this brep one over here is, etc |
| 02:40.40 | brlcad | rather straightforward to do, more just a matter of grunt work to set up the infrastructure |
| 02:40.54 | brlcad | and the design and appeal/usability of the site itself |
| 02:41.10 | Maloeran | I'll adopt the BRL-CAD conversion tools one day, I went the pseudo-lazy way and wrote an ASE parser ( just text ) |
| 02:42.04 | brlcad | or maybe you'll write a brl-cad conversion tool one day ;) |
| 02:42.20 | brlcad | like an ase-g importer or an g-ase expoerter ;) |
| 02:42.48 | Maloeran | If you care about ASE, sure :) |
| 02:44.20 | Twingy | not to be confused with ASS |
| 02:44.22 | brlcad | brl-cad already has more importers and exporters than just about any other open source modeling system (though blender is close, but they don't do any of the hard ones) |
| 02:45.12 | Maloeran | Blender's exporters and importers were terribly broken for me |
| 02:45.18 | brlcad | it wouldn't take much to make a fairly universal converter library and app (ala image magic's "convert") |
| 02:45.22 | Maloeran | So were lib3ds, libase, and a couple other things |
| 02:46.15 | Maloeran | I don't easily trust any other code than my own now, due to such... historical reasons. I just write what I need |
| 02:46.42 | brlcad | step is the format I really want to see implemented |
| 02:47.42 | brlcad | it's a horribly complex format, but adopted by every one of the major commercial systems |
| 02:48.02 | brlcad | and is about as faithfully representing as you can get |
| 02:48.39 | brlcad | since it's pretty much the union of all possible CAD/CAM/modeling features you might have wanted in your own format |
| 02:49.50 | Maloeran | Interesting, never heard of it |
| 02:51.07 | brlcad | if you're not in CAD/CAM or otherwise spending $20k on a CAD system, you probably wouldn't |
| 02:51.23 | brlcad | it's the successor to IGES |
| 02:51.44 | Twingy | then there was GCAM |
| 02:51.47 | brlcad | which was the definitive CAD format before it |
| 02:51.52 | brlcad | heh |
| 02:52.36 | Twingy | an italian grad student donated the other day |
| 02:53.15 | brlcad | Maloeran: other than .g, have you dealt with *any* solid modeling or CAD format that you know of? :) |
| 02:53.46 | Maloeran | I used Autocad 13 and 14 for years younger, helping my father's engineering work, if that counts for anything |
| 02:53.48 | brlcad | probably mostly dealt with general modeling formats like stl, dxf, vrml, etc |
| 02:54.16 | Maloeran | Otherwise, never dealt with anything CAD related :) |
| 02:56.16 | Maloeran | I suppose step and Iges support about all primitives one can think of, CSG or otherwise? |
| 02:56.33 | brlcad | pretty much |
| 02:56.57 | brlcad | as well as things like constraints, parametrics |
| 02:58.07 | brlcad | construction history, tolerance limits (per part or global), validation and verification |
| 02:59.55 | brlcad | formats like iges, step, jt, parasolid's x_t/x_b, vda, brl-cad's format (to a lesser extent for the advanced features) |
| 03:00.57 | brlcad | other details the geometry file might contain is whether the model is actually just a wireframe, or it's polygons, or it's a solid, or just a surface model, is there connectivity, etc |
| 03:01.18 | brlcad | dxf probably belongs in that mix too |
| 03:01.44 | Maloeran | Quite nice, sounds like troublesome to fully parse too |
| 03:02.03 | brlcad | depends on the format and the specification |
| 03:02.22 | brlcad | parsing is often the easiest part |
| 03:03.01 | brlcad | it's harder to actually convert.. especially when their representation is something you don't support, or the model doesn't have something you need |
| 03:03.28 | Maloeran | Yes that's what I meant, handling all the possible kinds of geometry representations |
| 03:03.39 | Maloeran | representation* |
| 03:03.54 | brlcad | like reading in nurbs if you only supported triangles in your format... or only supporting solid models, yet the model you're converting has degenericies |
| 03:04.00 | brlcad | yeah |
| 03:04.52 | brlcad | that's where brl-cad does pretty good as we intrinsicly support just almost everything commonly in use |
| 03:05.55 | brlcad | we lack superquadrics and have poor support for 2D primitives and don't really do trimmed nurbs (but do do untrimmed ones) |
| 03:06.20 | brlcad | at least not yet |
| 03:06.56 | Twingy | heh, you said do do |
| 03:07.37 | brlcad | re re me me so so la la si si do do |
| 03:08.23 | Maloeran | Ahah |
| 03:08.44 | brlcad | Maloeran: it's the same |
| 03:10.51 | brlcad | i don't think that'd be very comfortable to ride on |
| 03:11.03 | Twingy | you can keep it in my garage if you need to |
| 03:11.04 | brlcad | or go very fast |
| 03:11.33 | Twingy | if one of the strings break I have some 10AWG wire left over from solar installation |
| 03:12.39 | brlcad | hey, there's even a wiki page on it whowuddathunk http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/CAD_data_exchange |
| 03:13.05 | brlcad | mm.. 10AWG |
| 03:13.28 | brlcad | sounds like it'd be useful.. FOR A LYNCHING! |
| 03:13.30 | brlcad | *ahem* |
| 03:13.42 | Twingy | I'm real curious if I can melt copper |
| 03:13.54 | brlcad | with your bare hands |
| 03:13.56 | Twingy | I almost have enough scrap to try |
| 03:14.51 | Twingy | even if I could get it hot enough I doubt I could keep more than an ounce hot enough |
| 03:19.24 | Twingy | GCAM just about hit the 9k line mark, roughly 25% the size nurbana was |
| 03:25.23 | Twingy | ok, I'm not sure how that relates to what I just said... |
| 03:29.10 | Maloeran | It probably doesn't :). Anything missing in gcam besides 3d view and GUI candy? |
| 03:31.26 | Twingy | I've got 3d view and I don't think GUI candy is appropriate for gcam |
| 03:32.25 | Twingy | there's a number of features that still remain, but it's moving at a healthy pace, just check out its bugzilla |
| 03:32.43 | Twingy | I'm averaging a feature just about every other night |
| 03:32.51 | Twingy | finishing up pocketing now |
| 16:23.34 | Maloeran | Erik, I'll be going to the conference finally ( Beatrice from Survice was sick hence the long delay in response ) |
| 17:10.45 | ``Erik | ah, cool |
| 19:45.44 | CIA-5 | BRL-CAD: 03erikgreenwald * 10brlcad/src/librt/g_metaball.c: More print capability. Fixed missing magic in st_specific. |
| 20:11.11 | Maloeran | Metaballs, now with more magic! |
| 20:57.58 | CIA-5 | BRL-CAD: 03erikgreenwald * 10brlcad/src/mged/edsol.c: some (not very stable or complete) metaball editing |
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| 21:50.07 | ``Erik | heh |
| 21:54.56 | ``Erik | fear my magic balls. |
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| 21:58.24 | ``Erik | heh, yeah, that's it, kill and scramble braincells, that'll help you solve a difficult problem... |
| 21:58.29 | Maloeran | The basic idea is to try to reunite a volume later on even if it appears to split up, through the mess of sectors and nodes |
| 21:59.05 | Maloeran | Oh the problem has no physical substance, banging one's head against it is purely metaphorical :) |
| 21:59.11 | ``Erik | you can't extrapolate that from the knowlege of neighbors? |
| 21:59.18 | ``Erik | BANG YOUR HEAD! METAL HEALTH WILL DRIVE YOU MAD! |
| 22:00.20 | Maloeran | I can't extrapolate anything, I must walk the quad volume and compute on the way if no sector is contained without being intersected by one of the four rays |
| 22:00.40 | Maloeran | And do it efficiently, that is |
| 22:01.25 | ``Erik | uhmmmm |
| 22:01.36 | ``Erik | uhh, crap, I left that booklet at work |
| 22:01.59 | Maloeran | Simple cases are easy, but I want something that will be as aggressive as possible, to avoid processing smaller bundles or rays as long as possible |
| 22:02.02 | ``Erik | in your rt06 poster book, look for the poster that japanese dudes did... I *THINK* what your'e talking about is what they solved? |
| 22:02.28 | Maloeran | Hum. Looking for the poster book |
| 22:02.43 | Maloeran | No one is using sectors out there, I doubt anyone solved that. It's very different with kd-trees |
| 22:02.44 | ``Erik | you remember the one I'm talking about, right? the one next to mine? |
| 22:03.13 | ``Erik | hm, *shrug* they may have information that might be useful... *shrug* research is good. |
| 22:05.52 | Maloeran | That's basic stuff, and they aren't aggressive in their traversal at all |
| 22:06.11 | Maloeran | Hum, and Reschetov did better in 2005 |
| 22:06.38 | ``Erik | reschetov does some cool stuff |
| 22:07.06 | Maloeran | Yes, I quite like the guy ; he writes papers when he has something to say... unlike Wald |
| 22:07.24 | ``Erik | what he has to say is also worth listening to, unlike many |
| 22:08.10 | Maloeran | Right. I'm really not fond of this Wald character, the impression I have is that he's more interested by attention and praise than communicating anything of value |
| 22:11.24 | ``Erik | not uncommon, unfortunately |
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| 13:50.33 | Maloeran | It stores the value in some other register, then flushes the content of %rcx on the stack to be able to use it ; systematically |
| 13:53.39 | ``Erik | so fix gcc *shrug* |
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| 15:18.20 | Maloeran | Erik, seems nested functions can be used on OSX with -fnested-functions after all. Does the ban hold? |
| 15:18.55 | ``Erik | uhm, does it work on fbsd? |
| 15:19.15 | Maloeran | Sure, works pretty much everywhere |
| 15:19.41 | Maloeran | OSX is a weird exception that requires an extra compiler switch, besides -std=gnu99 |
| 15:20.02 | ``Erik | uhmmmm, I guess if it works on leenwx, fbsd, mac, and winderz, it should be ok *shrug* |
| 15:20.40 | ``Erik | I mean, the point is to make it run on the platforms, not arbitrarily avoid language constructs |
| 15:20.43 | Maloeran | Works on winderz with mingw/cygwin and Intel. Is any other compiler of interest? |
| 15:21.38 | ``Erik | nah... mebbe intel vectorC or pathscale, but 'functionality' is the purpose... uh, vc++ might be desired by some, uhhhhhh, |
| 15:21.50 | ``Erik | I think bob was the one doing the windows BRL-CAD stuff? |
| 15:22.00 | Maloeran | Pathscale supports gnu99, vc doesn't even support C99 to begin with |
| 15:22.09 | Maloeran | Yes, he's the one |
| 15:26.57 | ``Erik | <-- still codes to c89 *shrug* it works everywhere |
| 15:27.09 | Maloeran | This code is just going to be messy and less efficient without nested functions |
| 15:27.15 | ``Erik | I d'no if vc++ can use libraries from mingw? |
| 15:27.35 | Maloeran | Hum, mingw can produce DLLs so surely |
| 15:27.51 | ``Erik | yeah, but didn't vc++ need both a .dll and a .lib? |
| 15:28.08 | ``Erik | and, uh, iirc, the .lib was very compiler specific? or mebbe I'm confused with borlands compiler suite |
| 15:28.21 | Maloeran | Ah quite possible |
| 15:28.39 | ``Erik | I remember that vc++ .lib's didn't play nice with borland, so significant hoops had to be jumped through to use vc++ compiled libraries with bcc |
| 15:28.46 | ``Erik | but that was, uh, over ten years ago. |
| 15:29.16 | Maloeran | i don't know of anything in mingw to produce .lib files or something |
| 15:29.42 | ``Erik | very much not my world :) |
| 15:29.54 | ``Erik | that's over on the other side of you linux dorks ;) |
| 15:31.54 | ``Erik | hmmm, I had a picture of a sun monitor, and on it was a penguin toy inside of a condom... I should find that... :) |
| 15:33.15 | Maloeran | Blasphemy! |
| 15:34.37 | Maloeran | It appears XCode 2.3 added -fnested-functions, whatever XCode might be |
| 15:34.46 | ``Erik | http://www.birkoph.com/tech/IT_tux-in-condom.jpg |
| 15:34.50 | ``Erik | XCode is the mac ide |
| 15:35.28 | Maloeran | XCode 2.3 which in turns requires OSX 10.4 |
| 15:36.18 | ``Erik | 10.4 is an acceptable requirement for macs *shrug* |
| 15:36.27 | Maloeran | ( Not getting much of a reply there yet ) |
| 15:36.37 | Maloeran | Okay. |
| 15:36.58 | Maloeran | Ah! Poor Tux |
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| 12:30.29 | scorpion | hello people! |
| 12:30.41 | scorpion | is blrcad similar to autocad? |
| 12:31.39 | scorpion | can I use this to draw 2d layout of buildings? |
| 12:33.36 | scorpion | any one here>? |
| 12:33.43 | scorpion | thanks.... |
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| 07:13.54 | clock_ | Hi |
| 07:14.35 | clock_ | Is it possible to edit a cylinder in MGED by dragging it's ends with mouse without entering numerical coordinates, just by eye? |
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| 13:37.20 | clock__ | brlcad: can I edit primitives with mouse without entering numbers? |
| 13:37.33 | clock__ | like rotate and prolong/shorten cylinders? |
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| 21:39.38 | *** topic/#brlcad is http://ftp.brlcad.org (mirror of http://brlcad.org, down for 'maintenance') || BRL-CAD is an open source solid modeling software suite || Developers needed! Read the HACKING file for details on getting involved || Release 7.8.4 is posted, next release will be 7.10.0 | |
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| 07:00.22 | clock_ | Unfortunately the brlcad is completely unusable for an ocassional user |
| 07:00.57 | clock_ | I used to know how to use it 1/2 year ago and now I am trying to use it again and I see I forgot all the elaborate definition |
| 07:01.12 | clock_ | What's the difference between c, g, and r? Which ones permit overlapping and which not? |
| 07:01.22 | clock_ | What is A,B,C,D,H, and V in a cylinder? |
| 07:01.52 | clock_ | The help is also unusable: |
| 07:01.56 | clock_ | mged> help c |
| 07:01.56 | clock_ | Usage: c [-cr] comb_name [boolean_expr] |
| 07:01.56 | clock_ | (create or extend a combination using standard notation) |
| 07:02.19 | clock_ | Doesn't say what a combination is and what properties it has and what is not allowed with combination |
| 07:02.34 | clock_ | THe same for g and r:mged> help r |
| 07:02.34 | clock_ | Usage: r object(s) |
| 07:02.34 | clock_ | (create or append objects to a region) |
| 07:02.34 | clock_ | mged> help g |
| 07:02.34 | clock_ | Usage: g gname object(s) |
| 07:02.36 | clock_ | (create or append object(s) to a group) |
| 07:05.01 | clock_ | The quick reference card PDF takes about 10 seconds to draw a page on 1500MHz CPU so it's rather a slow reference card than a quick reference card |
| 07:26.20 | clock_ | Is it possible to place points in BRL-CAD and then reference them? |
| 07:26.30 | clock_ | For example place points A, B, C, D into space and then say |
| 07:26.38 | clock_ | "connect A and B with cylinder 6mm diameter" |
| 07:26.57 | clock_ | and the same for A and C, A and D, B and C, B and D, C and D |
| 08:02.31 | brlcad | clock_: per your earlier question, you can click in the graphics window to edit a value with the mouse |
| 08:02.37 | brlcad | without typing in values |
| 08:03.34 | brlcad | you select teh edit operation on the edit menu, then middle click in the graphics window using points above and below the center dot to increase/decrease values |
| 08:04.47 | brlcad | main difference between c g and r is syntax, except r also marks the object as a region which has a specific meaning (creates a "part", or solid matter as opposed to just a shape) |
| 08:05.38 | clock_ | brlcad: is it the content of the help stored in the source tarball? |
| 08:07.29 | brlcad | what do you mean? |
| 08:08.12 | brlcad | most of this stuff is covered by the intro to mged guide if that's what you mean |
| 08:10.14 | brlcad | the help for those commands in mged is weak .. they need something like a manpage per command as it's not easy to quantify their use in one line |
| 08:10.50 | brlcad | you really have to grasp the difference between groups/assemblies and regions/parts and combinations before it all makes sense |
| 08:11.51 | brlcad | g creates a group with a simple syntax of just listing objects you want to add, g object a b c d e f will add a b c d e f to a group named object |
| 08:12.35 | brlcad | which is a shorthand for creating a combination of only unions of a b c d e f, i.e. equivalent to c object a u b u c u d u e u f |
| 08:13.49 | brlcad | r does effectively the same thing as g, and can use a similar syntax, but it marks "object" as a region which matters for things like overlaps |
| 08:22.00 | clock_ | and c? |
| 08:22.10 | clock_ | Can I edit the help and improve it? |
| 08:22.25 | clock_ | Can I page and string search in the help output? |
| 08:44.17 | clock_ | Is it possible to change the help and then send a patch? |
| 10:45.32 | clock_ | brlcad: I need to draw a model of lattice truss made of tetrahedral units |
| 10:45.47 | clock_ | The wire is 6mm thick and in some parts 10mm pipe with 1.5mm thick wall |
| 10:45.51 | clock_ | How do I do this efficiently? |
| 10:46.08 | clock_ | Only rotating one wire takes like 15 minutes to get it right |
| 10:46.32 | clock_ | The best would be if I could click 2 points and say connect with wire |
| 12:11.11 | clock_ | brlcad: ? |
| 12:40.51 | ``Erik | heh, he probably went to sleep o.O |
| 13:43.25 | brlcad | heh |
| 13:43.59 | brlcad | clock_: of course you can edit the help and improve it! |
| 13:44.15 | brlcad | for string search, there is already a command, 'apropos' |
| 13:44.58 | brlcad | there isn't currently a pager, though as I mentioned, I have thought that it would be good to move to full blown manpages for the commands |
| 13:46.36 | ``Erik | sleep, row, whatever, just layin' around being lazy... :D *duck* |
| 13:47.28 | clock_ | brlcad: row on the water or on a rowing machine in a gym? |
| 13:47.53 | brlcad | ``Erik: that's your mantra too?! |
| 13:48.02 | brlcad | clock_: on water most days |
| 13:48.10 | ``Erik | gettin' a bit cold to keep that up |
| 13:48.11 | clock_ | must be cold and wet |
| 13:48.12 | brlcad | though it is getting pretty freaking cold at 4am |
| 13:48.16 | clock_ | watery grave ;-) |
| 13:48.25 | ``Erik | about 34f ? |
| 13:48.32 | clock_ | shy stirring water? You should generate electricity! |
| 13:48.38 | brlcad | it was about 38 this morning without the wind |
| 13:48.41 | brlcad | the wind is usually the killer |
| 13:48.44 | clock_ | shy -> why |
| 13:49.33 | ``Erik | no leather jacket, cap, and scarf while rowing? :} |
| 13:49.35 | brlcad | I looked at getting one of those generator motors .. but building the contraption is something I don't quite have time to do right now :) |
| 13:49.57 | clock_ | brlcad: you could support the weak national grid |
| 13:50.40 | brlcad | not too weak around here, but yet ;) |
| 13:50.51 | ``Erik | grids aren't quite national here, and the weakness is in wires being snapped or dug up, not overdrawn |
| 13:51.52 | clock_ | brlcad: I made a new holder for ronja http://images.twibright.com/tns/1f25.html |
| 13:52.28 | clock_ | I think it will be better to not try modeling it because it contains planes tangential to cylinder which I don't know how to make in BRL-CAD |
| 13:52.52 | clock_ | Welding a prototype is more cost-effective option that trying to model it in brl-cad |
| 13:55.02 | clock_ | jog? |
| 13:55.20 | clock_ | jogging leads to hammered down knees |
| 13:55.27 | clock_ | watching tv is the only safe activity |
| 13:56.27 | archivist | na a lot of tv damages the brain |
| 14:01.36 | ``Erik | I watch lots of tv and have no dain bramage |
| 14:15.04 | CIA-5 | BRL-CAD: 03erikgreenwald * 10brlcad/src/librt/g_metaball.c: cope with a zero point metaball |
| 15:41.24 | CIA-5 | BRL-CAD: 03erikgreenwald * 10brlcad/src/mged/edsol.c: |
| 15:41.24 | CIA-5 | BRL-CAD: Metaball: Implemented add and delete pt. Improved keypoint display. Fixed |
| 15:41.24 | CIA-5 | BRL-CAD: "second edit" crash. |
| 15:43.03 | clock_ | bam drainage |
| 16:07.02 | brlcad | cool |
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| 18:35.55 | ``Erik | heh |
| 19:26.42 | ``Erik | "I really thought the kids would get a big kick out of a scorpion filled pinata" |
| 19:27.55 | archivist | Ive had a scorpion walk over my foot when I was a kid |
| 21:20.21 | Twingy | I've been bopped! |
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| 22:06.14 | test34 | I just installed brlcad and I created a primitive but it doesnt show up in the graphical window (I'm following VolumeII_Introduction_to_MGED.pdf).. any idea what could be wrong? (I tried to create a primitive from the command prompt and from the menus) |
| 22:08.04 | test34 | If I type: l sph1.s, I get V 0 0 0 .. does that mean volume is 0 ? |
| 22:11.46 | test34 | V (0, 0, 0) |
| 22:24.03 | test34 | the rest of the tutorial displays correctly as I do it |
| 22:24.10 | test34 | (ie the radio) |
| 22:24.31 | Twingy | try another primitive |
| 22:25.18 | test34 | hmm it works now.. maybe it was just out of sight? |
| 22:25.49 | Twingy | or your clipping plane prevented you from seeing it |
| 22:25.59 | Twingy | you can always turn clipping off under the menu |
| 22:26.45 | test34 | ok thanks |
| 00:02.59 | brlcad | test34: V stands for vertex |
| 00:03.07 | test34 | ok |
| 00:03.12 | test34 | thanks for the info |
| 00:03.18 | brlcad | which is the center point for that sphere |
| 00:03.25 | test34 | ok |
| 00:04.52 | Twingy | Not the mama |
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| 10:50.30 | clock_ | Is Group just a Combination that uses only the OR operator? |
| 15:26.13 | brlcad | heh |
| 15:26.30 | brlcad | yes, though for CSG, that's generally referred to as the union operator |
| 15:27.08 | brlcad | OR -> UNION |
| 15:27.11 | brlcad | AND -> INTERSECTION |
| 15:27.46 | brlcad | MINUS -> SUBTRACTION (aka A AND NOT B) |
| 15:40.39 | clock_ | When I have a symmetric model and I model only one half and want to make the other half by copying and mirroring |
| 15:40.55 | clock_ | How should I do it? |
| 15:41.04 | clock_ | Make a combination of one half and the same half mirrored? |
| 15:41.49 | clock_ | Or make a combination containing only one half, then produce another combination by mirroring the combination, and then finally third combination that will UNION both toghether? |
| 15:42.01 | clock_ | I don't remember which of these two possibilities triggers incorrect behaviour in mged and which not |
| 16:33.38 | brlcad | clock_: there's a 'mirror' command :) |
| 17:07.40 | clock_ | brlcad: I know |
| 17:07.58 | clock_ | but which 1 of the 2 possibilities should I use? |
| 18:50.21 | ``Erik | http://www.thinkgeek.com/gadgets/electronic/8928/?cpg=39T |
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| 14:38.33 | Maloeran | Hum. Hotel reservation ends friday morning, flight is in the evening ; would it be possible to leave my luggage in someone's car from friday morning until then? I'm probably asking a bit early |
| 14:38.41 | Twingy | don't forget your tooth brush |
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| 14:56.58 | CIA-5 | BRL-CAD: 03d_rossberg * 10brlcad/src/librt/prep.c: memory lleak fixed (rtip) |
| 14:59.11 | CIA-5 | BRL-CAD: 03d_rossberg * 10brlcad/src/libbu/malloc.c: array bounds read error in bu_strdupm fixed |
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| 19:04.08 | brlcad | Maloeran: hotels and conference centers (for the large conferences at least) almost always have a place to leave luggage for the day |
| 19:04.20 | brlcad | otherwise, probably someone if you're going where I think you're going |
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| 01:20.32 | Maloeran | Ahh... This place is crazy, I'm totally not at my place |
| 01:21.27 | Maloeran | There didn't have whatever kind of room Survice had reserved, so they gave me a suite. There's even a large table for 6 persons in there |
| 01:21.35 | Twingy | call the gnome! |
| 01:21.50 | Maloeran | So hum, any suggestion where to eat nearby on foot from the Renaissance harborplace thing? |
| 01:21.59 | Twingy | McDonalds! |
| 01:22.33 | Maloeran | I'll try that sometimes! But not today, I haven't eaten since 9h this morning, so I need actual food |
| 01:23.20 | Twingy | how are you transporting this time? |
| 01:23.54 | Maloeran | By foot, if I understood the question |
| 01:24.16 | Maloeran | Seriously, any suggestion where to eat nearby? I assume you people know Baltimore a bit |
| 01:24.21 | Twingy | is this the place across from the wingate? |
| 01:24.54 | Maloeran | This is in Baltimore, some huge classy luxurious hotel where I feel totally out of my environment |
| 01:25.18 | Twingy | survice has a place in baltimore? learned something new today |
| 01:26.02 | Maloeran | No, I'm there for visualization conference 29th to 3rd |
| 01:26.32 | Maloeran | I'll just walk randomly if you don't have any suggestion |
| 01:27.24 | Twingy | I'm clueless when it comes to baltimore, I live in my basement |
| 01:28.01 | Maloeran | :) Okay. Herein begins the quest for food! Be back later |
| 01:29.23 | Twingy | 9:30 pm, good luck |
| 01:31.12 | iday | inner harbor |
| 01:31.43 | iday | thar be food there... |
| 01:31.43 | Twingy | I'm still on a macaroni and cheese budget until the next pay raise |
| 01:31.46 | iday | ha |
| 01:31.58 | Twingy | more than one of my pay checks goes to the monthly morgage |
| 01:32.00 | iday | whatever - if you didn't spend it all on solar panels |
| 01:32.07 | iday | you'd have more |
| 01:32.23 | Twingy | not at the moment |
| 01:32.26 | iday | for most people it is that way ;-) |
| 01:32.30 | Twingy | I'm spending money I won't see till february |
| 01:32.56 | iday | i just got a VGR of 12730 on my machine |
| 01:34.14 | iday | but i must get back to HW |
| 01:34.24 | iday | BTW - talked to drew thursday |
| 01:34.40 | Twingy | kk |
| 01:35.01 | iday | literally caught him walking to his car to leave - but everything seems on track |
| 01:35.31 | iday | just waiting for the announcement |
| 01:35.54 | Twingy | my adrt stuff seems to be done |
| 01:35.56 | iday | told him not to be concerned about hred - i do need to make things clear to troy though.... |
| 01:35.59 | iday | yay! |
| 01:36.02 | iday | no more ww |
| 01:36.06 | iday | for you! |
| 01:36.18 | Twingy | right-o |
| 01:36.40 | Twingy | it's like 1.5x with doubles and 2x with floats |
| 01:36.49 | Twingy | so I kept up my end of the bargain |
| 01:37.03 | iday | did you ever get in any sse stuff? |
| 01:37.04 | Twingy | I haven't even optimized my junk either |
| 01:37.09 | iday | ok |
| 01:37.12 | Twingy | I'm just rushing it to get it done |
| 01:37.15 | iday | that probably answers my question |
| 01:37.18 | Twingy | :) |
| 01:37.45 | Twingy | I've been working on gcam all day |
| 01:37.47 | iday | since sse is a major part of the optimized nurbs rendering - i started looking into last week |
| 01:37.54 | iday | cool |
| 01:37.58 | Twingy | I finally have the capability to design a full aircract fuselage |
| 01:38.06 | Twingy | *craft |
| 01:38.13 | Twingy | I think I will design one for AMA |
| 01:38.16 | Twingy | for fun |
| 01:38.21 | Twingy | I have the balsa in the garage |
| 01:38.25 | iday | :-) |
| 01:38.26 | iday | nice |
| 01:38.34 | Twingy | you should make your own too :) |
| 01:38.35 | iday | formers and everything? |
| 01:38.42 | Twingy | I will use foam and balsa only |
| 01:38.46 | Twingy | no monokote |
| 01:38.48 | iday | i thought about doing some model aircraft design |
| 01:38.51 | iday | it would be fun |
| 01:38.51 | Twingy | that stuff is a headache |
| 01:38.59 | Twingy | yes, lot's of fun |
| 01:39.03 | Twingy | gcam is a big headache though |
| 01:39.10 | Twingy | trying to make intuitive gui's and stuff |
| 01:39.16 | iday | although i have like 3/4 planes waiting to be built in my workshop |
| 01:39.24 | Twingy | ah |
| 01:39.28 | iday | guis are difficult |
| 01:39.29 | iday | that |
| 01:39.35 | iday | is all there is to it |
| 01:40.11 | iday | the interesting thing is: you can make a better looking gui than the code |
| 01:40.34 | iday | iow - the gui looks good - but the code is spaghetti :-( |
| 01:40.41 | Twingy | my sketch and extrude paradigm is very handy if you use it right |
| 01:41.11 | Twingy | you could in theory use brl-cad to accomplish what I'm trying to do |
| 01:41.26 | Twingy | but you would have to modify it only use arcs and lines |
| 01:41.34 | Twingy | and be able to order things |
| 01:41.44 | iday | brl-cad sketch tool is POS |
| 01:41.46 | Twingy | without ordering you will lose your structure as you mill |
| 01:41.51 | iday | everyone knows that ;-) |
| 01:41.57 | Twingy | most people just want to do a dxf |
| 01:42.05 | Twingy | but they don't understand they need to cut the insides out first |
| 01:42.08 | Twingy | them the outter perimiter |
| 01:42.13 | Twingy | otherwise it'll get thrown around |
| 01:42.25 | iday | yeah - hahaha (visualizing the result) |
| 01:42.36 | Twingy | on the very last layer the machine literally spits it out |
| 01:42.48 | Twingy | in any random direction |
| 01:42.58 | Twingy | about 1 - 4 inches |
| 01:44.13 | Twingy | I need to buy a sheet of that pink fomular insulation for home |
| 01:44.29 | Twingy | very handy when it comes to building models |
| 01:44.50 | iday | yes - they use it all the time in MA and other mags |
| 01:44.53 | Twingy | like $20 for a 2' x 8' sheet |
| 01:44.59 | iday | especially for 3d electrics |
| 01:45.15 | Twingy | highly flamable, but oh well :) |
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| 02:06.00 | Twingy | one of these days I'm going to have to leave this house on the weekend |
| 02:35.34 | Twingy | argh, meltdown |
| 02:38.01 | Maloeran | My brain is still running in french mode, I started ordering in french, and later said "thank you" in french |
| 02:38.21 | Twingy | at least yours is running |
| 02:38.25 | Twingy | mine is crawling right now |
| 02:38.30 | Maloeran | The waitress was more amused than annoyed, fortunately |
| 02:38.41 | Maloeran | Lack of sleep? |
| 02:38.51 | Twingy | plenty of sleep |
| 02:39.09 | Twingy | gcam is becoming quite a handful |
| 02:39.16 | Maloeran | Lack of vitamin B6, B12 and Omega 3? |
| 02:39.20 | Maloeran | Ah, too much work :) |
| 02:39.37 | Twingy | working 14 hours a day on it 7 days week gets to you |
| 02:40.00 | Maloeran | Yes, tell me about it. I took a little break recently |
| 02:40.07 | Twingy | I went running today... |
| 02:40.27 | Twingy | every time I add a new feature |
| 02:40.36 | Twingy | I hear a thousand years complain |
| 02:40.44 | Twingy | s/years/users |
| 02:41.01 | Twingy | in my head of course |
| 02:41.02 | Maloeran | Complaining because features are added? How so? |
| 02:41.30 | Maloeran | Oh :), I thought it was a handful of users with really loud voices, or perhaps a lot of echo |
| 02:42.18 | Twingy | you crack me up :) |
| 02:43.34 | Maloeran | I'm a bit annoyed as the hotel's wireless barely reaches my room/suite on the 7th floor, the signal is too weak. I have to connect from the lobby |
| 02:45.08 | Twingy | can you boost the power in the driver? |
| 02:45.40 | Twingy | some times the mcu on the card will let you adjust the regulator |
| 02:45.53 | Maloeran | Good idea, there are iwconfig settings for that, I never tried though |
| 02:46.00 | Twingy | assuming it's an adjustable regulator |
| 02:46.43 | Maloeran | It's a bit weird to have a full featured suite with a conference room built-in, but no wireless |
| 02:48.29 | Twingy | no it's not |
| 02:48.54 | Twingy | wireless is outsourced by a third party |
| 02:49.12 | Twingy | they don't care who gets what coverage |
| 02:49.17 | Twingy | just as long as there is coverage |
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| 06:18.52 | PKMOBILE | and i start work monday |
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| 22:08.20 | Maloeran | Hrmph. So where are you guys, ``Erik, brlcad? Haven't seen you around yet |
| 22:12.06 | Maloeran | I was in the medical visualization presentations, seemed more interesting than the... other weird stuff |
| 22:12.26 | Maloeran | Not too sure why I'm here for yet, though |
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| 22:39.23 | Maloeran | Doh. |
| 22:39.30 | Maloeran | Is it the same for Erik and Lee? |
| 22:39.43 | brlcad | you're probably there just to sponge up information and ideas, rarely any *specific* reason |
| 22:40.02 | Maloeran | Seriously, what am I doing here? :) This has nothing to do in any way with what you people ar edoing |
| 22:40.03 | brlcad | no, they're going to be there most of the week |
| 22:40.04 | Maloeran | are doing, even |
| 22:40.33 | brlcad | visualization? there's quite a bit of that |
| 22:40.38 | Maloeran | Do you know if they were present today? |
| 22:40.45 | brlcad | nope |
| 22:41.12 | Maloeran | Visualization of complex graphs into 2d planar stuff? Visualisation of thousands of overlapping 2d functions by random sampling?... I think this is way off |
| 22:41.39 | brlcad | ehm, that's like only one tiny aspect |
| 22:42.12 | brlcad | if you're comparing just what you've seen in one or two sessions as representing the entire conference, *that* would be way off |
| 22:42.48 | Maloeran | Right of course, I would have prefered knowing that I could skip a few days |
| 22:43.02 | brlcad | of specific interest is just about anything related to medical visualization |
| 22:44.22 | Maloeran | I asked where you guys were staying in Baltimore, when I learned you would drive daily, it should have been implied in the question :) |
| 22:44.46 | brlcad | well they're supposed to be there all week |
| 22:44.52 | brlcad | i'm just not |
| 22:45.04 | Maloeran | Right. Thanks, I must have missed them |
| 22:45.14 | brlcad | too much of a rush and interrupt into another task I'm working on |
| 22:46.15 | Maloeran | My time could be used for more productive things too, without throwing 400$ away daily |
| 22:46.36 | brlcad | you can always sit in a corner and code |
| 22:46.39 | Twingy | you could have invested that into TwingCo, LLC |
| 22:47.34 | Maloeran | Mmhm, or stay at the fancy hotel suite. They didn't have anymore of what Survice reserved, so I was given a suite |
| 22:48.24 | brlcad | i certainly wouldn't be complaining about staying there ;) |
| 22:48.25 | Twingy | I think you should have made some donations to GCAM instead :P |
| 22:48.32 | brlcad | even if just to sit in the room and code |
| 22:49.48 | Maloeran | This is way above my comfort needs, it makes me.. uncomfortable |
| 22:49.56 | Twingy | hah |
| 22:50.10 | Maloeran | There's a conference room built-in the suite if you want when passing by |
| 22:55.09 | Twingy | I think you should walk around as a giant pumpkin on the 31st |
| 22:56.15 | Maloeran | Woohoo. I lack the costume though. I could try to mimick it |
| 22:56.40 | brlcad | could make one out of the pillows and sheets |
| 22:56.51 | Twingy | you remember ftp.cdrom.com/pub/asm/party/XX ? |
| 22:56.53 | brlcad | i big white pumpkin |
| 22:57.20 | Twingy | you could do a little pumpkin 3d demo |
| 22:58.02 | Twingy | I must've downloaded every one of those |
| 22:58.23 | Twingy | 4kB and I'd be watching 3d fly throughs on my P133 for like 10 minutes |
| 22:58.52 | Twingy | textured and bump mapped and stuff, would blow me away |
| 23:00.25 | Maloeran | Eheh. It helps that it's assembly written for one very specific purpose, totally not flexible |
| 23:01.03 | Twingy | I'm saying have a little fun and write and old school demo with the tracer in like 16kB :) |
| 23:01.30 | Twingy | I think my libtie is like 9kB |
| 23:01.47 | Twingy | that's 5kB for a 3d world :) |
| 23:01.52 | Twingy | the possibilities are endless! |
| 23:02.26 | Maloeran | I could take a SSE assembly pipeline, and render one highly optimized graph structure stored in the binary, that would fit in a couple kb easily |
| 23:02.35 | Maloeran | Except, there's not much point :) |
| 23:03.35 | Twingy | there's never a point to them, but damn cool to watch :) |
| 23:03.59 | Maloeran | Eheh. I don't really mind if the executable is 4kb of 300kb though |
| 23:04.22 | Twingy | that's still smaller than MSVC++'s hello world app, so that's cool |
| 23:05.44 | Maloeran | I think it was Delphi where the default empty executable was 500kb or so |
| 23:08.00 | Twingy | hmm, I should find out what my pay increase is this week or next |
| 23:55.24 | Maloeran | little Italy, even |
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| 00:04.17 | brlcad | Maloeran: you probably would enjoy visiting around Mt. Washington, there's the Walters Art Gallery, the first Washington monument, some really nice old architecture, the Peabody, some good restaurants, etc |
| 00:05.20 | brlcad | if you head north up Charles, (go left on pratt) and head towards the monument, it's about 10-15 blocks up the street |
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| 02:23.36 | Twingy | ok, who wants to donate an old car with fuel injected motor to me |
| 02:24.51 | brlcad | been there, done that |
| 02:24.56 | brlcad | 6 months too late |
| 02:25.36 | Twingy | aww |
| 02:27.30 | Twingy | http://www.nasa.gov/vision/earth/technologies/liquidmetal.html |
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| 13:32.36 | Maloeran | Thanks brlcad |
| 13:32.45 | Maloeran | So ``Erik, when are you guys dropping by? |
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| 13:50.36 | brlcad | Maloeran: i'd expect them both to be there somewhere today |
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| 14:58.49 | *** topic/#brlcad is http://ftp.brlcad.org (mirror of http://brlcad.org, down for 'maintenance') || BRL-CAD is an open source solid modeling software suite || Developers needed! Read the HACKING file for details on getting involved || Release 7.8.4 is posted, next release will be 7.10.0 | |
| 16:33.37 | CIA-5 | BRL-CAD: 03jlowenz * 10brlcad/ (include/pkg.h src/libpkg/pkg.c): added const string parameters (because they should be const) |
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| 11:50.03 | clock_ | What does the "overlap" message mean? |
| 11:50.14 | clock_ | Does it indicate any harmful effect? |
| 13:56.01 | brlcad | it's a modelling error that would mean something bad if you were performing an analysis |
| 13:56.10 | brlcad | but is mostly harmless for ray-tracing |
| 13:56.17 | ``Erik | it means two different pieces of solid geometry exist at te same point in space |
| 13:56.31 | ``Erik | brlcad, you making it down this week? |
| 13:56.43 | brlcad | you can use rt -R to quell the overlap reporting |
| 13:56.52 | brlcad | ``Erik: probably later in the week |
| 13:57.01 | brlcad | like maybe tomorrow and thurs |
| 13:57.04 | brlcad | or thurs/fri |
| 13:57.05 | ``Erik | ok, have you looked at the schedule? |
| 13:57.08 | brlcad | have to check out the schedule |
| 13:57.12 | brlcad | nope, not yet |
| 13:57.15 | ``Erik | <-- off tomorrow, will be down here thurs&fri |
| 13:57.38 | ``Erik | I have the dead tree and a dvd, if you want a paper, I can send you the data off the dvd and you can review it |
| 13:57.42 | ``Erik | see if it's worth coming down for |
| 13:59.38 | brlcad | you can upload the dvd and i'll take a peek, otherwise I was just going to check the schedule that's on-line and flip a coin |
| 14:00.23 | ``Erik | from looking at the schedule, some of the best stuff seems frontloaded in the week :/ |
| 14:00.32 | ``Erik | when I get home, I'll dig up the dvd and see about making it available to you |
| 14:01.08 | ``Erik | if I remember O:-) |
| 14:01.43 | brlcad | heh aiight |
| 14:04.49 | clock_ | brlcad: what is the general rule to follow to avoid overlaps? |
| 14:05.07 | clock_ | And what actually is the overlap? |
| 14:05.21 | clock_ | What is overlapping what? |
| 14:07.07 | brlcad | clock_: as erik mentioned, it means you have two objects physically overlapping in space |
| 14:07.43 | brlcad | when you make something a region, that marks it as a real physical object as opposed to just a shape |
| 14:08.46 | brlcad | say you make a tire (region A) and an axel (region B) and don't line up the axel correctly in the center of the wheel such that it overlaps |
| 14:09.07 | clock_ | how do I tell if something is a region or not? |
| 14:09.08 | brlcad | that's an example, it's something physically inaccurate |
| 14:09.48 | brlcad | the overlap message spewing out at you will report which two regions are involved |
| 14:09.52 | clock_ | I have no regions in my model. Everything ist just combination |
| 14:09.57 | clock_ | So there are no regions that could overlap |
| 14:10.15 | brlcad | you can check if something is a region by looking at the combination and seeing if the region bit is set (combination editor, l command, db get command, other ways) |
| 14:11.44 | brlcad | keeping track of regions/parts is the subtle difference between solid modeling (where it is very important for analysis) and generic modeling (where it never matters) |
| 14:12.01 | clock_ | Well I just did red <the toplevel thing> and it say region:No |
| 14:12.36 | clock_ | http://ronja.twibright.com/3d/tetrax.g |
| 14:12.38 | brlcad | that would be to edit the region, l is more simple |
| 14:13.10 | ``Erik | hm, maybe we need a "what is an overlap" faq type thing |
| 14:13.59 | brlcad | yeah, I'd started on a diagram that attempts to explain regions/parts/assemblies/etc some of the confusion is just in the generic terminology |
| 14:14.02 | ``Erik | like, make an example of having two balls, if you push them together, they stop when they collide, so if you define them so they overlap, it's physically impossible and you'd have to do a union if you want that kinda overlap with some sense of reality |
| 14:14.10 | brlcad | i remember having a heck of a time getting what a region was |
| 14:14.23 | ``Erik | well, yeah, but you're slow ;) *duck* |
| 14:14.37 | clock_ | brlcad: can a combination contain regions? |
| 14:14.44 | clock_ | And if yes, is it a correct practice? |
| 14:14.58 | clock_ | Will mged segfault on combination containing regions? |
| 14:15.32 | brlcad | yes it can and yes it's correct practice |
| 14:15.45 | clock_ | is solidworks free software? |
| 14:15.50 | archivist | no |
| 14:16.03 | brlcad | a combination that contains regions is a "group" (hence the g command and family) or an "assembly" in other parlance |
| 14:16.13 | clock_ | can a group contain non-regions? |
| 14:16.24 | brlcad | archivist: ah, good idea |
| 14:16.31 | clock_ | does region and combination differ only by the region flag and material settings? |
| 14:16.37 | clock_ | Can a combination have material settings? |
| 14:16.49 | brlcad | clock_: run "rtcheck" and it'll highlight and report on the overlaps |
| 14:16.53 | clock_ | If yes, are the material settings of a combination always ignored? |
| 14:17.20 | clock_ | I think BRL-CAD needs instructions like the Ronja website is |
| 14:17.37 | clock_ | The PDF is lengthy to read and I forget the beginning when I get to the end |
| 14:17.44 | clock_ | with examples |
| 14:17.46 | brlcad | the material settings that you're probably referring to are just optical material settings |
| 14:18.00 | clock_ | You can copy my web framework to automatically generate web output for .g models |
| 14:18.14 | brlcad | the optical material settings can be applied to any object and there's an override, but is irrelevant to overlaps |
| 14:18.39 | brlcad | a group can contain non-regions too -- that's still an assembly |
| 14:18.48 | clock_ | is group just a special case of something where all operations are union? |
| 14:18.53 | clock_ | If yes, special case of what is it? |
| 14:19.28 | brlcad | yes it is, a special case of a combination where all operations are a union |
| 14:20.03 | ``Erik | there's a quick&dirty howto mged thingy, uh, building a birdhouse or something, have you seen that? |
| 14:20.11 | brlcad | generally refers to a combination above the region level (i.e. assemblies) though it can be used even to group things below it as well |
| 14:23.31 | brlcad | clock_: there's tons of help that is needed on the "learn how to model with mged" front .. it actually is quite powerful even with the unforgiving interface but is incredibly poorly documented |
| 14:24.02 | brlcad | that's why I started with the command reference at least, then next is a few requisite diagrams, then perhaps a few simple tutorials |
| 14:24.24 | brlcad | any help is more than welcome ;) |
| 14:24.31 | brlcad | not short on ideas, just on .... |
| 15:30.16 | Maloeran | So you are skipping tomorrow, ``Erik? I really don't see what I am doing here, this has very little to do with what I'm doing or will be doing in the close future |
| 15:30.46 | Maloeran | So I just code and run out of laptop battery constantly. I should have bought a couple backups |
| 15:37.56 | clock_ | brlcad: is group the same as combination made just from unions? |
| 15:38.45 | brlcad | clock_: yes |
| 15:39.08 | brlcad | merely to maintain one consistent CSG hierarchy |
| 15:39.17 | brlcad | with only three operators |
| 15:39.38 | brlcad | otherwise another operator would designate the same end effect of having a collection |
| 15:39.52 | clock_ | brlcad: should I group primitives into combinations and then make mutually nonoverlapping regions from these combinations and then group the regions using the group command? |
| 15:40.27 | clock_ | once I enter the group command there is no way how to tell if the combination was created using "g" or "c"? |
| 15:43.51 | brlcad | clock_: okay, i looked at your geometry and see the problem |
| 15:44.09 | brlcad | your CSG is technically fine other than you haven't specified *any* regions |
| 15:44.10 | clock_ | what is the problem? |
| 15:44.29 | clock_ | where it is written that you have to specify at least one region? |
| 15:45.15 | brlcad | like I mentioned earlier, that gets into something completely fundamental about how to construct proper solid geometry hierarchies if you want to represent something physical |
| 15:45.23 | brlcad | the distinction between a shape and a solid |
| 15:45.41 | brlcad | you've described the shapes, but not "made anything" yet |
| 15:45.48 | clock_ | so shape is something in the constructer's head and solid is something that is lying on the table, right? |
| 15:45.54 | brlcad | it's covered in the big mged guide over many lessons |
| 15:45.56 | clock_ | But why does it raytrace? |
| 15:46.17 | clock_ | Yeah but I need something if I have a question then be able to find it in the guide in 3 seconds |
| 15:46.26 | clock_ | and not need to read it once more again |
| 15:46.34 | brlcad | right, you got the basic idea .. the shape is like a 3d blueprint |
| 15:46.52 | clock_ | If I have an overlap is it going to count that iron twice? |
| 15:46.59 | brlcad | it ray-traces just because what else is it going to do.. it could abort, and that'd be incredibly frustrating |
| 15:47.09 | clock_ | aha OK |
| 15:47.31 | brlcad | what is happening since you don't have any regions, it's just considering it a default hierarchy |
| 15:47.38 | clock_ | Like the weight would show more kilograms because some parts would be made from a double-density iron? |
| 15:47.48 | brlcad | with the leaves/primitives being considered as regions |
| 15:48.00 | brlcad | so in sym.c for example, you have primitives that "overlap" |
| 15:48.01 | brlcad | and it reports them as such |
| 15:48.06 | clock_ | aha |
| 15:48.10 | brlcad | when they clearly are intended to be that way |
| 15:48.24 | clock_ | Does it also report the hole that is considered a region that it overlaps the plate from which it is cut out? |
| 15:48.30 | brlcad | it's just that sym.c should probably be a region, or create a sym.r region that just has sym.c in it |
| 15:48.35 | brlcad | and the overlaps will disappear |
| 15:48.41 | clock_ | or steel.r that has tetrax in it |
| 15:48.51 | clock_ | and then say that steel.r has a colour and density of steel |
| 15:49.15 | brlcad | a "hole" wouldn't be a region |
| 15:49.16 | clock_ | is it correct to make region according to material from which they are made? |
| 15:49.28 | brlcad | yes! |
| 15:49.32 | clock_ | why not? The hole is a solid (rcc) and you said that by default all solids are a region |
| 15:49.46 | clock_ | can you make a region which is half plastic and half steel? |
| 15:50.10 | brlcad | the material type is usually a great delimination for regions.. if it's all one contiguous piece of metal (whether welded or not), then it would probably be good as a region |
| 15:50.31 | clock_ | can a region be noncontiguous? |
| 15:50.44 | brlcad | yes and no |
| 15:50.48 | clock_ | when no? |
| 15:50.57 | brlcad | inherintly, it just has one material identifier per region |
| 15:51.10 | brlcad | you can tag alternates but nothing in brl-cad is going to recognize what is implied |
| 15:51.27 | brlcad | for the purpose of computing weights and mass, for example, it just needs to know the density |
| 15:51.31 | clock_ | I don't get it. If I make a region that is noncontiguous, is it going to screw up? |
| 15:51.31 | brlcad | which is tied to that material type |
| 15:51.49 | clock_ | will it say weird messages, return bullshit on weight calculations or segfault? |
| 15:51.53 | brlcad | depends what you mean by "make a region that is noncontinugous" |
| 15:52.05 | clock_ | I mean take two spheres with a gap in between them |
| 15:52.05 | brlcad | mged won't let you technically speaking |
| 15:52.11 | clock_ | and them make a region by unioning them |
| 15:52.11 | brlcad | ok |
| 15:52.17 | clock_ | and saying the region is made of steel |
| 15:52.23 | brlcad | ok |
| 15:52.27 | clock_ | is it legal? |
| 15:52.32 | brlcad | so far, yes |
| 15:52.43 | clock_ | can I run into problems with this approach? |
| 15:53.24 | brlcad | so consider that example, sph1, sph2 .. unioned together in reg.r with reg.r having a material ID set (1 for steel) |
| 15:53.57 | brlcad | you'll run into a problem if you later union that reg.r into some other reg2.r region |
| 15:54.13 | brlcad | you're not supposed to do that |
| 15:54.18 | clock_ | what kind of problem is it going to be? |
| 15:54.40 | brlcad | mged will let you, but it's potential for overlaps and inconsistent geometry |
| 15:54.44 | clock_ | is it legal to make a region from primitives and not from cobinations? |
| 15:55.01 | brlcad | if you walk down the CSG hierarchy, there should always be one and only one region encountered |
| 15:55.04 | clock_ | What is inconsistent geomerty? |
| 15:55.07 | brlcad | along any path |
| 15:55.12 | clock_ | aha |
| 15:55.53 | clock_ | can I make a region and then group the region and it's mirror into a group? |
| 15:56.01 | brlcad | sure |
| 15:56.01 | clock_ | So I duplicate it by reference? |
| 15:56.05 | brlcad | just don't make the group a region |
| 15:56.14 | clock_ | How can I do this without manually editing the matrix? |
| 15:56.41 | clock_ | I always do it using vi |
| 15:56.48 | clock_ | 1 0 0 0 0 1 0 0 0 0 1 0 0 0 0 1 :) |
| 15:56.53 | brlcad | heh |
| 15:57.24 | clock_ | and is it legal to include copies by reference? |
| 15:57.41 | brlcad | the easiest is to model in localized coordiates, in some quadrant, and then mirror about an axis |
| 15:57.54 | clock_ | Is Survice going to go out of job when someone writes instructions so that's why there are no instructions? |
| 15:58.06 | clock_ | What is localized coordinates? |
| 15:58.19 | brlcad | heh, no, survice is quite set and sound in their business |
| 15:58.27 | brlcad | they don't make money on the training, it's a wash |
| 15:58.42 | clock_ | Let's say I do in part1.s rpp 0 10 0 10 0 10 |
| 15:58.56 | clock_ | now I want parts.c to be part1.s and part.s mirrored by y axis |
| 15:59.12 | clock_ | how do I do this point-and-click, without firing the text editor on the matrices? |
| 15:59.28 | brlcad | mirror part1.s part.s y |
| 15:59.41 | brlcad | c parts.c u part1.s u part.s |
| 15:59.45 | clock_ | but that is not by reference |
| 15:59.57 | clock_ | if I change part1.s I want both copies to change not just on |
| 15:59.58 | clock_ | one |
| 16:00.18 | brlcad | hm, true |
| 16:00.29 | clock_ | how do I do this by reference without text editor? |
| 16:00.32 | brlcad | need a layer in between |
| 16:00.40 | clock_ | In text editor it's mentally strenuous |
| 16:00.51 | brlcad | instead of working on the primitive, put the primitive into a comb, mirror the comb |
| 16:01.27 | clock_ | when I change an element of the comb then, it's going to reflect even in the second copy? |
| 16:02.20 | clock_ | but if I move the element by matrix edit, it will behave as copy by value and if in prim selection as copy by reference, right? |
| 16:02.52 | clock_ | answer in sequence :) |
| 16:03.56 | brlcad | if you have a comb that includes two mirrored objects left.c and right.c and each of those refer to the same side.c, then yes if you modify side.c, it'll update both -- if you edit left.c or right.c, however, it'll only apply to that side |
| 16:04.35 | clock_ | can I align objects in mged |
| 16:04.42 | brlcad | which is to say that if you edit the matrix over left.c or right.c, yes it'll only apply to them .. but if you modify a matrix in side.c, it'll change both |
| 16:04.56 | clock_ | for example say this sphere should touch this cube in the middle of it's face? |
| 16:05.06 | brlcad | alignment is done manually or via assistance with the ADC |
| 16:05.23 | clock_ | what is ADC? |
| 16:05.29 | brlcad | the angle distance cursor |
| 16:05.45 | clock_ | it's some kind of 8-way cross isn't it? |
| 16:06.01 | brlcad | yep, hit "a" in the graphics window |
| 16:06.16 | clock_ | how do I use it to get a precise alignment? |
| 16:06.24 | brlcad | explaining how it works is more easily dont with tutorials with the ADC :) |
| 16:06.25 | clock_ | Does it some kind of snap capability? |
| 16:06.54 | brlcad | no, it won't do the snapping for you |
| 16:07.12 | clock_ | so it has some imprecision given by the visual display limitation? |
| 16:07.19 | brlcad | but between that and/or using nirt/rtshot you can get the value |
| 16:07.58 | brlcad | you're wanting parametrics if I'm not mistaken |
| 16:08.07 | clock_ | is there a way how to make a hex head or do I need to use a script I wrote? |
| 16:08.19 | brlcad | trust me that I want them too.. but I want a new modeler environment to use them in too -- mged would be cumbersome with parametrics |
| 16:08.24 | clock_ | what is a parametric? I know what a parametric modeling is |
| 16:08.43 | brlcad | parametric modeling uses parametrics |
| 16:08.52 | brlcad | values that are reliant upon other values |
| 16:09.03 | brlcad | making stuff "snap" or be automatically aligned" |
| 16:09.04 | clock_ | aha no |
| 16:09.09 | brlcad | tied to constraints |
| 16:09.25 | clock_ | but like in qcad I have point selection where I can opt for automatic snap into line crossing |
| 16:10.01 | clock_ | or make a line touching two circles |
| 16:10.01 | brlcad | yep, it's the same thing -- it's just that it only uses the parametric computation to get the value |
| 16:10.43 | archivist | things like a distance/angle/alignment to a face/line/point/whatever |
| 16:11.29 | clock_ | what is the extrude thing? Can it extrude from vector data like dxf? |
| 16:11.35 | archivist | or the spacing is controlled by the item/s in between/outside |
| 16:12.34 | clock_ | or extrudes only from bitmaps? |
| 16:12.54 | brlcad | clock_: yes, you provide a sketch primitive and that is extruded to a 3D solid object |
| 16:13.11 | clock_ | What is a sketch primitive? A bitmap? |
| 16:13.12 | brlcad | extruding bitmaps is a different primitive (the "ebm") |
| 16:13.35 | clock_ | Is sketch primitive some kind of sketch I can draw in mged? |
| 16:13.36 | brlcad | clock_: you have the mged quick ref on hand? |
| 16:13.41 | brlcad | yes |
| 16:13.42 | clock_ | no |
| 16:14.07 | brlcad | http://ftp.brlcad.org/MGED_Quick_Reference_Card.pdf |
| 16:14.15 | brlcad | look at the primitives diagram |
| 16:14.22 | brlcad | in the middle is a sketch primitive |
| 16:14.27 | brlcad | vector-based shapes |
| 16:14.33 | brlcad | above it is that same shape extruded |
| 16:14.57 | brlcad | if you look at the "BRL-CAD" title in the bottom right, that's an extruded bitmap |
| 16:16.04 | brlcad | you create sketchs either via import (not sure if dxf fully works) or through the mged sketch editor (which is 'alphaware' and lameish, but usable for simple tasks) |
| 16:16.26 | brlcad | create a sketch via the edit menu and it'll kick off the sketch editor |
| 16:16.52 | brlcad | someone was working on making that kick off something like qcad instead of mged's sketch editor, but they never finished.. that would be interesting |
| 16:18.29 | clock_ | would it be possible to make predefined primitives like a hex or Allen head |
| 16:18.44 | clock_ | where one would just type the M-size and it would give the head? |
| 16:18.49 | clock_ | I wrote a C code for that |
| 16:19.00 | clock_ | I just don't have the standard sizes |
| 16:19.19 | clock_ | Or also L, I, C etc. sections would be handy. |
| 16:19.51 | brlcad | sounds like a great little command line tool to include |
| 16:20.28 | brlcad | you saw the mk_bolt tool yes? something like that could be extensively improved |
| 16:20.35 | brlcad | starting with something like your C code |
| 16:21.44 | clock_ | Or a thread primitive too |
| 16:21.54 | brlcad | indeed |
| 16:22.01 | brlcad | that'd be a sweep |
| 16:22.05 | clock_ | primitive -> tool |
| 16:22.31 | brlcad | a primitive or tool would be good to have |
| 16:22.44 | clock_ | can a thread be exacly simulated by existing primitives? |
| 16:22.57 | brlcad | depends on the thread type |
| 16:22.59 | clock_ | With the metric thread proile? |
| 16:23.13 | clock_ | The profile is made from circular arcs and lines |
| 16:23.14 | brlcad | and amount of effort you want, it'd use some complex operations |
| 16:23.32 | clock_ | onen which could be automated |
| 16:23.33 | brlcad | if it's a non tapering thread, then it's conceivably doable with the pipe primitive |
| 16:23.56 | clock_ | I say "Give me Allen head bolt M8x50 with 10mm threadless" and it would do all the tapers and threading :) |
| 16:24.04 | brlcad | yep |
| 16:24.17 | clock_ | but is it going to be precise or only an approximation? |
| 16:24.23 | brlcad | maybe you'll help write a plugin that does exactly that for the new modeler? :) |
| 16:24.38 | brlcad | it should be precise |
| 16:24.45 | clock_ | That's great |
| 16:24.54 | clock_ | but no I am going to tweak capacitors in my Ronja RX |
| 16:24.58 | brlcad | it really depends on the thread/shaft type |
| 16:24.59 | archivist | but it also has to do a fusee..... hehe |
| 16:25.06 | clock_ | yesterday I bent the waves into the right shape a bit |
| 16:25.12 | clock_ | fusee? |
| 16:26.14 | archivist | a special type of screw form in a clock |
| 16:29.08 | clock_ | Hehe invented in 1525 by Jakub Zech in Prague :) |
| 16:29.31 | archivist | with your nick you should know clock parts. hehe |
| 16:29.53 | clock_ | no I know just clock signal |
| 16:30.17 | clock_ | The most reliable thing in a computer system :) |
| 16:30.34 | clock_ | Clock never makes a mistake |
| 16:32.03 | archivist | ahem theres been a few "clock" errors eg the y2k and the unix one coming up in a few years |
| 16:32.24 | clock_ | I mean the clock signal |
| 16:32.38 | clock_ | that's a repeating square wave. There's really nothing that can go wrong there |
| 16:32.58 | archivist | skew |
| 16:34.47 | clock_ | is it possible to autogenerate input for mged so it would construct like from a program? |
| 16:34.56 | clock_ | Or didn't .g have some text alternative? |
| 17:47.45 | brlcad | clock_: sure is |
| 17:48.22 | brlcad | you can script it using mged/tcl commands or in your language of preference to generate a transript that gets fed to mged |
| 17:48.36 | brlcad | or via a program that creates the transcript or .. |
| 17:48.46 | brlcad | a program that directly generates the geometry (best option) |
| 17:49.07 | brlcad | examples in the source distribution, src/proc-db and src/mk among others |
| 18:18.48 | clock_ | hehe I didn't know there are any examples in the source distribution |
| 00:43.20 | ``Erik | iie, eriku wa tabenai!!! |
| 00:55.18 | ``Erik | japanese, for "no, don't eat me!"... discussion in another channel... happened to have been in japanese o.O |
| 00:56.41 | Twingy | wow, that's appropriate furby talk too |
| 00:56.46 | Twingy | damn I'm good |
| 00:57.11 | ``Erik | well, someone tried to ask me how old I was, but asked if they could eat me instead |
| 00:57.23 | Twingy | was she cute? |
| 00:57.41 | ``Erik | d'no... heh, friend of a friend, haven't seen a pic |
| 00:57.59 | ``Erik | (and immediately after, I said "unless you do it nice"...) |
| 00:58.04 | Twingy | pfft, I'd want to see what they looked like before I let them ask me if they could eat me |
| 00:58.12 | ``Erik | heh |
| 00:58.33 | ``Erik | so you're not swinging by the harbor to visit alexis? |
| 01:06.33 | Twingy | he'll be in town again soon enough |
| 01:07.46 | Twingy | plus I'm no fun when I'm tired |
| 01:08.15 | ``Erik | heh |
| 01:08.28 | Twingy | wanna see an amusing pic? |
| 01:08.32 | ``Erik | always |
| 01:08.36 | Twingy | http://js.cx/~justin/images/justin_disney.jpg |
| 01:09.04 | ``Erik | is that richard stallman??? |
| 01:09.06 | ``Erik | :> |
| 01:09.13 | Twingy | all I remember is some little kid was to the right of me asking his mom if that was Gandalf |
| 01:09.16 | ``Erik | no, you're not pinching your nose... |
| 01:09.30 | Twingy | I think he was playing grab ass with me |
| 01:09.34 | Twingy | maybe it was john |
| 01:10.12 | ``Erik | hehe, john's got himself a semi-sweet deal... 3 days of work a week, obnoxious pay, and none of the mandatory shit |
| 01:10.13 | Twingy | looks like he's holding a joint in his right hand |
| 01:10.31 | Twingy | doobie snacks |
| 01:10.36 | ``Erik | towlie is the gandalf of southpark. |
| 01:14.27 | ``Erik | woops |
| 01:44.51 | brlcad | i think that's Blinn |
| 01:45.00 | ``Erik | hahaha |
| 06:43.39 | *** join/#brlcad Maloeran (n=maloeran@195.139.172.210) | |
| 08:05.46 | *** join/#brlcad ibot (i=ibot@pdpc/supporter/active/TimRiker/bot/apt) | |
| 08:05.46 | *** topic/#brlcad is http://ftp.brlcad.org (mirror of http://brlcad.org, down for 'maintenance') || BRL-CAD is an open source solid modeling software suite || Developers needed! Read the HACKING file for details on getting involved || Release 7.8.4 is posted, next release will be 7.10.0 | |
| 11:45.05 | *** join/#brlcad clock__ (n=clock@zux221-122-143.adsl.green.ch) | |
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| 12:02.10 | *** topic/#brlcad is http://ftp.brlcad.org (mirror of http://brlcad.org, down for 'maintenance') || BRL-CAD is an open source solid modeling software suite || Developers needed! Read the HACKING file for details on getting involved || Release 7.8.4 is posted, next release will be 7.10.0 | |
| 15:21.31 | Maloeran | If the user interface presented by Microsoft research at this conference is used, I pity the future generation of windows users |
| 15:24.17 | *** join/#brlcad jpjacobs (n=jpjacobs@ace.ulyssis.student.kuleuven.be) | |
| 15:24.37 | jpjacobs | does anyone have a debian/ubuntu package of brlcad? |
| 15:43.48 | clock__ | jpjacobs: I don't but compiling is easy |
| 15:43.59 | clock__ | I compiled on Linux and OpenBSD. You don't need additional libraries AFAIK. |
| 15:49.57 | brlcad | jpjacobs: several people have started working on making a package, and I believe one exists for a version from a year or so ago .. but current no there's not |
| 15:50.38 | clock__ | brlcad: I found a bug in mged |
| 15:50.59 | brlcad | it is pretty much self-contained, so it should compile off of a source distribution cleanly and fully if you at least have a compiler |
| 15:51.07 | brlcad | clock__: reproducible? |
| 15:52.14 | clock__ | brlcad: yes |
| 15:53.01 | jpjacobs | yeah, the compiling, or just extracting the tarball isn't really the problem, but i wanted to just have a deb, so i can manage the file with apt-get instead of a bunch of loose files |
| 15:53.49 | Maloeran | Ubuntu doesn't come with anything one needs to compile stuff, you have to install a bunch of packages |
| 15:53.54 | jpjacobs | hmm just managed to buid a deb from the tarball i got from sourceforge |
| 15:53.55 | Maloeran | It's really a painful distribution for programmers |
| 15:54.14 | jpjacobs | yeah i know, there's a meta package for that: build-essential |
| 15:54.28 | jpjacobs | allright, no errors, wish me luck :) |
| 15:57.19 | clock__ | Well actually already 2 bugs. |
| 16:00.35 | clock__ | Well |
| 16:00.42 | clock__ | http://ronja.twibright.com/3d/par_welded_we_s2.png at the right side of the vertical beam an edge is not drawn, although an edge is there. |
| 16:00.46 | clock__ | Second bug: |
| 16:00.59 | clock__ | http://ronja.twibright.com/3d/tetrax.g |
| 16:01.58 | clock__ | Matrix selection, /tetrax/tetrax.c/sym.c/l2.c/li.s, l2.c then it shows nonsense - both pieces are moving synchronously and they should move in a mirrored fashion. When you do an accept then, one of them disappears and reappears only after you type "B tetrax". |
| 16:02.16 | brlcad | jpjacobs: good luck |
| 16:02.43 | jpjacobs | nice. i've got it working! if anyone want's the deb, i could upload it somewhere |
| 16:03.01 | clock__ | brlcad: can I consider this bugreported and scratch it out of my TODO list? |
| 16:03.05 | brlcad | jpjacobs: which version did you compile? |
| 16:03.14 | jpjacobs | working is relative, i still have to add /usr/brlcad/bin to the path ;) |
| 16:03.22 | clock__ | brlcad: can you try it out if you can reproduce it? |
| 16:03.25 | brlcad | jpjacobs: you can upload via ftp to ftp.brlcad.org/incoming |
| 16:03.32 | jpjacobs | i didn't, i just got the binairies of sourceforge |
| 16:03.43 | jpjacobs | i can try though |
| 16:03.52 | brlcad | er, binaries or source? |
| 16:04.01 | brlcad | sounded like you compiled it |
| 16:04.23 | jpjacobs | (but i warn you i don't know anything about packaging in general, so don't blame me if this breaks things :p) |
| 16:04.51 | brlcad | clock__: yeah, I'm actually not so sure that's a bug as much as it is a setting issue (though certainly undesired behavior) |
| 16:04.59 | jpjacobs | i had both, but the compilingstuff was mainly to get things installed via checkinstall , but that failed |
| 16:05.19 | brlcad | jpjacobs: failed because? |
| 16:06.19 | brlcad | clock__: there's a test in rtedge when determining whether to draw an edge, looking at the depth of the adjacent faces.. in your diagram there, the adjacent are nearly identical and I bet that's why it's not drawing it |
| 16:06.20 | clock__ | brlcad: which one are you talking about now to be a setting issue? |
| 16:06.41 | clock__ | brlcad: they are not nearly identical there is actually several millimeters space in between |
| 16:06.46 | brlcad | that value is configurable, albeit maybe only via source.. there should be a run-time configuration for it |
| 16:07.28 | jpjacobs | dunno anymore, it's been a while |
| 16:07.29 | clock__ | brlcad: but why does it have to be configurable? Can't it just test if the ray doesn't punch another body or another face of the same body? |
| 16:07.52 | jpjacobs | is 7.8.3 the most recent source release? |
| 16:08.04 | clock__ | brlcad: why isn't configured to be more sensitive by default? Would it draw edge everywhere then ? |
| 16:08.24 | brlcad | right, it's a subtle balance |
| 16:08.38 | brlcad | not everywhere, but more than you'd generally want |
| 16:10.59 | clock__ | brlcad: well if it draws bulshitty edges it doesn't matter it's not necessary for Ronja that all edges are perfect it's just to show the shape |
| 16:11.22 | brlcad | curious, if you draw it larger, does it render the edge? |
| 16:11.27 | clock__ | I didn't try |
| 16:11.29 | brlcad | what object is that? |
| 16:11.35 | clock__ | It's done by scripts |
| 16:11.58 | clock__ | http://ronja.twibright.com/3d/par_welded.g |
| 16:12.16 | clock__ | object inside "par_welded_we" |
| 16:13.05 | brlcad | hmm.. there's something wrong in that .g |
| 16:13.50 | clock__ | As usual, I always manage to make something wrong in the .g files |
| 16:18.02 | brlcad | jpjacobs: if you use the latest posted source tarball (7.8.4 posted at http://sourceforge.net/project/showfiles.php?group_id=105292&package_id=113368) I'll upload your .deb as a linux download |
| 16:18.25 | brlcad | clock__: it might not be you actually.. I'm using an older version, considerably older -- have to check with a never version |
| 16:18.43 | brlcad | it still brins up par_welded |
| 16:19.48 | clock__ | brlcad: "B par_welded_we" |
| 16:20.13 | brlcad | yep, already there |
| 16:21.13 | brlcad | hmm, sure enough some sort of tolerancing issue |
| 16:21.21 | brlcad | it renders the edge zoomed in |
| 16:21.36 | clock__ | brlcad: then it's not a bug |
| 16:21.45 | clock__ | brlcad: can you look into the other report please? |
| 16:21.53 | clock__ | That's actually quite annoying during modelling |
| 16:21.54 | brlcad | like i said, maybe not a bug but certainly undesired behavior |
| 16:29.44 | jpjacobs | How do i build brl to have all executable files in /usr/bin instead of /usr/brlcad/bin ? and also the man stuff? |
| 16:30.10 | brlcad | jpjacobs: that's highly not recommended for many reasons right now |
| 16:30.44 | brlcad | aside from the plain reason that it'll end up installing several hundred binaries and several dozen libraries.. |
| 16:30.50 | jpjacobs | hehe, that's just the opposite that people just told me on #ubuntu :p |
| 16:31.14 | jpjacobs | yeah, ok, but that's no problem if things get managed by apt |
| 16:31.25 | brlcad | there's also a high probability that one of those binaries or libraries will conflict in name with an existing |
| 16:31.41 | brlcad | meaning it could clobber something you already have which would be "bad" |
| 16:32.00 | jpjacobs | mmm, maybe i'll just make a wrapperscript to that then... something like brlterm ... |
| 16:32.18 | brlcad | more likely it'll be a library |
| 16:32.20 | jpjacobs | and put that in /usr/bin |
| 16:32.57 | brlcad | brl-cad's core libraries, librt, libbu, and libbn have been around for decades, but other projects sometimes have similarly named libraries |
| 16:32.58 | ``Erik | heh |
| 16:33.01 | jpjacobs | i mean , just a stupid shellscript that set's the path's right |
| 16:33.21 | ``Erik | echo PATH=$PATH:/usr/brlcad/bin >> ~/.bashrc |
| 16:33.22 | ``Erik | :D |
| 16:33.23 | ``Erik | done |
| 16:33.31 | brlcad | you mean scripts installed into /usr/bin pointing to stuff in /usr/brlcad/bin? :) |
| 16:33.45 | clock__ | brlcad: did you try my second report? |
| 16:33.55 | brlcad | clock__: i'm still working on your first one |
| 16:34.02 | brlcad | or do you really not care |
| 16:34.10 | jpjacobs | no, just a script like /usr/bin/brlterm, that just set's the right paths and then dumps you to a shell |
| 16:34.12 | clock__ | brlcad: but you don't have to - I don't care about the first one |
| 16:34.21 | brlcad | clock__: grr |
| 16:34.26 | clock__ | That seems to be a design property |
| 16:34.41 | brlcad | well, at a glance, I'm trying to verify |
| 16:34.43 | clock__ | Or do you have an idea how to quickly fix it so that there is no magical constant and it always detects edges properly? |
| 16:34.46 | brlcad | as well as to see if there's a workaround |
| 16:35.25 | brlcad | there are options that can be set that should help it find that edge |
| 16:35.57 | ``Erik | jpjacobs: the only paths you SHOULD need to muck with are the binary path $PATH and the manpage (maybe) $MANPATH, just fix your .bashrc or .profile or whatever? |
| 16:36.55 | jpjacobs | yeah, but like brlcad said, that might conflict with other executables etc |
| 16:37.06 | brlcad | jpjacobs: ahh.. there's actually a todo item to create a "proper" full blown terminal interface that has the environment set up, but that's future work |
| 16:37.13 | brlcad | actually, not quite what I said |
| 16:37.27 | brlcad | installing into /usr/brlcad is preferred, and just set the PATH/MANPATH |
| 16:37.28 | jpjacobs | so this thing would only set the path's when you invoke it |
| 16:37.46 | brlcad | akin to /usr/X11R6 |
| 16:37.57 | ``Erik | why make it a script? why not just put the paths in another file, and source it when you want it? heh |
| 16:38.24 | brlcad | ``Erik: that's effectively what he's suggesting too :P |
| 16:38.41 | ``Erik | I mean, it seems to me like like you want something in the same class as writing ls-l.c to execute ls -l ... |
| 16:38.56 | ``Erik | brlcad: sourcing doesn't spawn a subshell |
| 16:39.26 | brlcad | so? |
| 16:39.30 | ``Erik | treating the ptree like a stack of shells does not seem optimal to me *shrug* :) |
| 16:40.01 | brlcad | he probably cares about as much as I'd care about that for this purpose :) |
| 16:40.12 | brlcad | that said, still think it's not a good approach |
| 16:41.30 | brlcad | it should either install into /usr/bin or not, and let usual unix pathing do what it's supposed to do (i.e. update the /etc scripts with new PATH, or assume user will) |
| 16:43.18 | ``Erik | hell, I've had accounts on systems where /etc was legitimately in the path... :D |
| 16:44.04 | brlcad | what could be useful is an installer script phase for debian/gentoo/freebsd that optionally updates the system paths for you |
| 16:44.27 | brlcad | but it's still more important to get it working integrated cleanly first imho before doing that |
| 16:44.34 | ``Erik | I wouldn't do that for fbsd... :/ |
| 16:44.40 | brlcad | hence the optional |
| 16:45.05 | ``Erik | the 'right' way is to have an 'install-user' target which mucks a persons ~/.profile or whatever, or just a pkg-message to tell how to use it |
| 16:45.31 | brlcad | could have that in addition, but that would be solving a slightly different issue |
| 16:45.44 | ``Erik | and that extra mged.sh pedro made is a bit of a headache, heh |
| 16:46.08 | jpjacobs | i think a lot of users don't like mucking with paths, and like the idea of just doubleclicking an icon and getting a nice shell with everything ready to use, maybe even with a nice text printed to get them started :) |
| 16:46.55 | clock__ | I hate dealing with paths |
| 16:47.03 | clock__ | Different on every system |
| 16:47.16 | clock__ | And if you do it wrong it can disappear the next time you restart or upgrade the system |
| 16:47.27 | clock__ | Or it can work on text console and not work in X, or vice versa |
| 16:48.09 | ``Erik | yeah, a lot of users should put the machine back in the box and return it to the store. o.O |
| 16:48.14 | ``Erik | :D |
| 16:48.59 | ``Erik | hey, brlcad, does mged have the ability to run all four hundred and something programs of the suite? |
| 16:52.13 | jpjacobs | woohoow, everything compiled right. Does anyone have better scripting skills than I do? (what i come up with is http://ln-s.net/FGP |
| 16:53.43 | ``Erik | and how are you planning on calling that? |
| 16:54.52 | brlcad | jpjacobs: the double-clickable option (a brl-cad terminal) is what has my focus, for what it's worth -- that's a solution that is necessary in particular for the gui systems (esp. mac and windows) |
| 16:55.25 | brlcad | ``Erik: what do you mean? |
| 16:55.36 | brlcad | you can invoke any of them with exec in mged if that's what you mean |
| 16:55.46 | brlcad | only a handful of them are coupled to similar mged commands |
| 16:55.56 | brlcad | probably a dozen or so |
| 16:56.28 | ``Erik | hm |
| 16:56.48 | ``Erik | I wonder if they should all be blindly name-linked... (like rt is)... then call the mged shell 'the thing', just launch mged |
| 16:57.21 | brlcad | jpjacobs: if you would, that should say "Everything set up for BRL-CAD", not using the lowercase non-dashed naming |
| 16:57.33 | ``Erik | pedant :D |
| 16:57.43 | brlcad | consistent |
| 16:58.37 | brlcad | it's generally non-trivial to couple the command line commands to a similar mged command |
| 16:58.55 | brlcad | extensively different options and conventions amongst different tools |
| 16:59.25 | ``Erik | ah, you can't take the argument list and just blindly pass them to the underlying program? like a shell execvp() |
| 16:59.25 | brlcad | and many of them would just be confusing and inconsistent if used inside mged without proper wrapping |
| 16:59.38 | brlcad | like if I ran mk_wire.. i'd expect it to make a wire object in my current database |
| 16:59.52 | jpjacobs | i've got it almost... any colors for xterm that would go nicely wiht BRL-CAD? |
| 16:59.54 | brlcad | whereas mk_wire expects a .g and object names, etc |
| 17:00.34 | brlcad | so mged would have to be aware of mk_wire's options format on how to specify the current .g and how to specify object names (some are consistent like the tracers, others aren't) |
| 17:01.08 | brlcad | jpjacobs: you could set a color on .g and .pix files |
| 17:01.59 | ``Erik | eenterestink... my 1.25 g4 scores 2127, where the 1.2ghz athlon scores 667 |
| 17:01.59 | jpjacobs | how do you mean? |
| 17:03.49 | ``Erik | or LSCOLORS |
| 17:04.33 | jpjacobs | it's LS_COLORS aparently |
| 17:04.42 | ``Erik | it's different on different os's :( |
| 17:07.47 | brlcad | ``Erik: that's a stunningly low score for a 1.2 athlon |
| 17:07.56 | ``Erik | um, you don't know what my metric is |
| 17:08.10 | ``Erik | nope |
| 17:08.21 | ``Erik | not BRL DASH CAD related |
| 17:08.43 | brlcad | ah, so it's a useless metric .. got it ;) |
| 17:09.31 | ``Erik | :D ultra-naive raytracer with the goal of being modular so different algorithms for different aspects can be dropped in trivially... this is with the ueber-naive 'acceleration' structure, moller-trombour triangle intersection, and the value is rays per second |
| 17:09.56 | brlcad | hehe |
| 17:09.58 | ``Erik | (every ray tests every triangle, keeping the 'closest') |
| 17:12.35 | jpjacobs | just did the benchmark too, i've got 1597 on my AMD AthlonXP 2600+ (2.05 GHz) |
| 17:12.38 | brlcad | i finally got Zeta to install |
| 17:12.52 | brlcad | jpjacobs: that'd be an unoptimized build :) |
| 17:13.16 | brlcad | you should recompile optimized, at least it sounds unoptimized |
| 17:13.21 | jpjacobs | well that could very well be (it's just the binarie from sourceforge) |
| 17:13.25 | brlcad | hmmm |
| 17:13.41 | brlcad | those should be optimized actually, unless someone left off the option |
| 17:13.59 | ``Erik | what're you running zeta on? |
| 17:14.13 | jpjacobs | now for the .deb, should i make it with --enable-optimized ? |
| 17:14.25 | brlcad | zeta won't do ppc |
| 17:14.46 | brlcad | wouldn't do parallels either, kept kernel panic'ing in random places |
| 17:15.13 | brlcad | jpjacobs: yes, --enable-optimized and --enable-almost-everything ;) |
| 17:15.45 | brlcad | can toss in --disable-debug for good measure |
| 17:15.51 | brlcad | but that's optional |
| 17:18.03 | ``Erik | heh, "dooking" http://www.zefrank.com/theshow/# |
| 17:23.14 | jpjacobs | is the enable-almost-everything to be taken literally? |
| 17:23.30 | brlcad | yes |
| 17:23.52 | CIA-5 | BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/BUGS: rtedge is not respecting the -c'set' options |
| 17:24.24 | brlcad | there is such a configure option that enables the compilation of the third-party dependencies (libpng, tcl/tk, urt, zlib, itcl/itk/iwidgets, etc) |
| 17:24.55 | brlcad | otherwise it will autodetect what you have installed, which is potentially different if you wanted to share that .deb with someone else |
| 17:25.56 | ``Erik | debs have dependancy info built in... urt, zlib, and png should be added as dependancies and forced not to build imho... :D |
| 17:32.00 | brlcad | should, and the official debian .deb request has/had such a thing going iirc |
| 17:32.40 | brlcad | but then there's still issues running against system tcl/tk/itcl/itk/... that I'm still working on |
| 17:36.20 | jpjacobs | ``Erik: well, if you can tell me how i do that, that'll be nice:) |
| 17:45.46 | jpjacobs | hmmm almost there with the xterm, lscoloring and path setting thing |
| 17:51.54 | jpjacobs | damn it, i can't get the lscoloring to get set... very weird. have alook at it at: http://ln-s.net/FGX |
| 17:53.02 | jpjacobs | can anybody give me a list of packages where brlcad depends on? |
| 17:53.49 | brlcad | jpjacobs: ls src/other |
| 17:53.54 | brlcad | they are included there |
| 17:54.19 | brlcad | the probablem you'll run into with some of them though, like tcl/tk, is that a system tk is currently non-functional .. close, but not there yet |
| 17:54.59 | brlcad | but for things like jove and urt and zlib and png and regex, system ones work just as well |
| 17:59.01 | jpjacobs | so i should have tcl/tk compiled in and the rest as dependancy |
| 17:59.37 | jpjacobs | i'm off for dinner |
| 18:04.48 | brlcad | pretty much |
| 18:25.39 | dtidrow_work | ``Erik: lol at the 'stinky' opinions |
| 20:16.31 | jpjacobs | has anybody an idea why the lscolloring stuff in my script doesn't work? |
| 20:21.36 | Maloeran | Ohh, so that's the raytracer you spoke of writing, Erik :). Okay, I don't feel too threatened yet |
| 20:34.05 | *** join/#brlcad clock_ (i=clock@84-72-95-129.dclient.hispeed.ch) | |
| 21:01.43 | clock_ | brlcad: did you check the second report I told you? |
| 21:01.50 | clock_ | Or should I report it into the bug database? |
| 21:07.46 | clock_ | brlcad: is it OK to subtract a region from another one or do AND operation? |
| 22:38.42 | *** join/#brlcad Maloeran (n=maloeran@195.139.172.210) | |
| 22:40.48 | *** join/#brlcad Maloeran (n=maloeran@195.139.172.210) | |
| 22:46.36 | ``Erik | hum, per ghz, the naive rt I got here does 874 ray/sec, the g4 does 1700 ray/sec :) |
| 22:58.15 | Maloeran | Feel like trying my ray-triangle intersection test to compare? :) |
| 22:58.30 | Maloeran | It works best with short ray segments, but you should see a good gain |
| 23:00.13 | ``Erik | um, if I give you a function prototype, can y ou give me a .c file easily enough? |
| 23:00.42 | Maloeran | It requires conversion to a different triangle structure than 3 vertices, but it's simple enough |
| 23:00.58 | ``Erik | hrmmmmmm |
| 23:01.20 | ``Erik | tell ya what, when I see you tomorrow, I'll have my thumbdrive, we can compare and mess around |
| 23:01.49 | Maloeran | Sure |
| 23:01.50 | Twingy | just think of me as the richard stallman of renewable energy |
| 23:02.46 | Twingy | I'd grow a beard, but it'd increase my coefficient of friction |
| 23:07.19 | ``Erik | so you stink a lot? :D |
| 23:08.20 | ``Erik | it's cuz you're queerbeqois |
| 23:08.50 | Twingy | DEY TUK HIS JB! |
| 23:08.58 | ``Erik | JRB! |
| 23:09.03 | Twingy | JRRRRRR |
| 23:09.09 | ``Erik | JJJJRRRRRRRRRB |
| 23:09.15 | Twingy | BACK TO THE PILE! |
| 23:09.32 | ``Erik | twingies a timecist |
| 23:09.46 | Twingy | I'm a confuscist atm |
| 23:10.01 | Twingy | you'd think 2d math would be easy |
| 23:10.24 | ``Erik | dpeends on which two dimensions :D |
| 23:10.48 | Maloeran | Erik, there were some interesting talks today about visualization of dynamic fluids, turbulence, vortexes ; the first interesting talks to me so far |
| 23:11.17 | Maloeran | I really should have skipped the first 3 days, had I known that it was all about "Information visualization", or how to draw pretty eye-candy 2d graphs for humans to see huge datasets |
| 23:11.55 | Twingy | but just think |
| 23:12.04 | Twingy | with the knowledge you contain you could write powerpoint++ :) |
| 23:12.20 | ``Erik | really, fluid dynamics are of strong interest to me, heh |
| 23:12.23 | Twingy | powerpoint doesn't have a ray-tracer yet eh? |
| 23:12.25 | ``Erik | but I was running errands all day :/ |
| 23:12.30 | ``Erik | no, but it has a flight sim... |
| 23:13.25 | Maloeran | Same here, Erik. SURVICE wants me on their fire simulations too apparently, good timing |
| 23:14.44 | Maloeran | For 3 days now, I feel like eating a huge plate/bowl of fruits, any idea where to find that in Baltimore? :) |
| 23:16.21 | ``Erik | I thought I saw a grocery store when we were looking for food on monday, they'd probably have fruit platters in their deli area, or straight fruit |
| 23:16.23 | Maloeran | I wish I could find that. Perhaps what I need is a grocery, not a restaurant |
| 23:16.45 | Maloeran | Right, okay |
| 23:17.24 | brlcad | there's a grocery about 15 minutes away, albeit not walkable at this time of day now, you'd have to cab it or something |
| 23:17.41 | Maloeran | How is it not walkable? |
| 23:17.53 | Twingy | SUPAH FOOD TOWN! |
| 23:18.43 | brlcad | it's about 15-20 blocks southwest of the inner harbor |
| 23:18.51 | brlcad | almost due south |
| 23:19.11 | brlcad | which would require walking down some rather dark streets |
| 23:19.26 | brlcad | not something I'd recommend for someone as skinny as you :) |
| 23:19.33 | Twingy | just buy 100 of those neon light sticks and duct tape them to your body |
| 23:19.45 | Maloeran | I never went anywhere it wasn't "safe" before, this is weird |
| 23:20.03 | Maloeran | I might be skinny, but I made the Montreal games on the 100m and 500m runs not so long ago ;), I can run... fast |
| 23:20.09 | archivist | sounds like a matchstick with the wood scraped off |
| 23:20.12 | brlcad | it's actually pretty safe where you're at |
| 23:20.39 | brlcad | you might run fast, but I bet a bullet or knife would still catch up quickly enough ;) |
| 23:21.42 | Maloeran | Woah. Understood, I really am surprised |
| 23:21.47 | brlcad | if you had your bike, I'd say go for it .. those neighborhoods around federal hill are pretty safe |
| 23:22.03 | brlcad | it's just a bit much to walk |
| 23:22.20 | ``Erik | if you do walk, only care enough money to buy what your'e going to get, keep your stuff in your sock, and try not to be too pretty o.O :D *duck |
| 23:22.48 | ``Erik | but cabbing would be way preferrable or wait until morning *shrug* |
| 23:22.53 | brlcad | seriously, just take a cab and you'll be there in about 5 minutes :) |
| 23:22.58 | ``Erik | if I had fruit handy, I'd bring some down |
| 23:23.01 | Twingy | heh, mal looked at me with shock when I told him that some parts of baltimore aren't the safest :) |
| 23:23.25 | ``Erik | heh, I've been lost ins ome of those :D |
| 23:23.30 | ``Erik | tore the shit out of that pt cruiser... *cough* |
| 23:24.44 | Twingy | never trust google maps through baltimore |
| 23:24.48 | Maloeran | It's just a fairly different environment. I have never seen a gun in my life, and you talk about these "tools" wandering the streets |
| 23:25.15 | brlcad | heh |
| 23:25.21 | brlcad | now that I find funny for some reason |
| 23:25.31 | brlcad | we should go shooting something :) |
| 23:25.33 | Twingy | you get into the projects with a bunch of crack houses and gangs, what do you expect |
| 23:26.18 | Twingy | soon as the city cleans up a block or two, one or two more show up |
| 23:26.48 | Twingy | company goes out of business, board up the building, becomes a crack house |
| 23:26.56 | Twingy | simple as that |
| 23:27.20 | Maloeran | If it's that simple, that should make the police's job very easy |
| 23:27.24 | brlcad | heh, I'm not sure if that says anything about France or just you ability to be naive.. |
| 23:27.37 | Twingy | mal, the budget can't employe 10,000 police officers |
| 23:28.03 | Twingy | just be glad you're not in turkey where if you lift up the wrong box it's a bomb |
| 23:28.20 | brlcad | ding ding ding, you win! *boom* |
| 23:28.41 | Twingy | school-mate of mine in college told me some of the horry stories he lived through before moving to america |
| 23:28.47 | Twingy | *horror |
| 23:33.10 | Maloeran | Probably mostly naivety, brlcad :), I think I have become a little wiser since then |
| 23:33.54 | brlcad | :) |
| 23:34.16 | ``Erik | given what efficiencies? |
| 23:34.42 | ``Erik | ICE's tend to be horribly inefficient :( |
| 23:35.02 | ``Erik | chemical energy vs kinetic energy at the wheel is abysmal |
| 23:38.02 | Twingy | 17% efficiency |
| 23:38.04 | ``Erik | hydrogen ice, or diesel indirect drive... |
| 23:38.30 | ``Erik | (ice == internal combustion engine... heh, I'm an old battletech geek :( ) |
| 23:41.38 | Twingy | WINTER HAVEN, Florida (AP) -- Police Chief Paul Goward was tired of looking around his department and seeing blubber hanging over the belts of some of his officers. So he sent out a memo exhorting the "jelly bellies" to shape up. |
| 23:41.38 | Twingy | In the end, the department lost 190 pounds -- all of them belonging to Goward. He was forced out as chief because some of his officers took offense at the memo. |
| 23:42.56 | Maloeran | Sad. |
| 23:44.50 | Twingy | sweet, my pair of palm sized 250 psi compressors just arrived |
| 23:45.00 | Maloeran | Does "fruit" have a second meaning? |
| 23:45.19 | ``Erik | http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=fruit |
| 23:45.35 | brlcad | the fruit of your loins does, I hope |
| 23:46.04 | brlcad | regardless, that's a piece of fruit I wouldn't touch ;) |
| 23:46.32 | Maloeran | That is weird |
| 00:47.50 | Maloeran | Okay, that didn't work. I'm sorry to bother you again with this ; brlcad, where is that grocery of yours? |
| 00:47.52 | brlcad | heh |
| 00:49.05 | ``Erik | O.o |
| 00:54.03 | Twingy | crap that thing is tiny |
| 00:54.12 | Twingy | 100 psi on a friction fit |
| 01:23.54 | brlcad | Maloeran: this is the place I'm thinking of: http://tinyurl.com/y6p5oj |
| 01:25.00 | brlcad | in that shopping center is a little supermarket |
| 01:27.26 | brlcad | which looks more like 20-30 blocks south and 20 or so blocks east, not what I'd said earlier .. down light street, over e fort ave and you're there (eventually) |
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| 04:32.01 | brlcad | Maloeran: you also might just do better walking up to lexington market.. that's considerably closer and, if/when open (closes at 6pm), usually has an excellent fresh variety of stuff |
| 04:32.06 | brlcad | http://www.lexingtonmarket.com/ |
| 05:26.26 | CIA-5 | BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/TODO: begin 8.0 branch for backwards-incompatible/complex changes |
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| 23:23.46 | Maloeran | So you deserted us Erik? :) Lee's city model isn't bad |
| 23:31.46 | Twingy | mmm dessert |
| 23:34.21 | Maloeran | Mmm, food |
| 23:42.57 | ``Erik | heh, I went into one of the sessions... |
| 23:43.03 | ``Erik | I just came out to use the restroom :) |
| 23:43.10 | ``Erik | you guys were gone when I got out there, so'z I went hom |
| 23:50.03 | ``Erik | yet still 30 minutes faster than the path lee takes, heh |
| 23:50.05 | ``Erik | ed++ |
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| 00:44.02 | brlcad | ed++, sounds like vi |
| 00:44.17 | ``Erik | heh |
| 00:44.31 | ``Erik | big ed |
| 00:44.33 | ``Erik | :) |
| 00:44.35 | ``Erik | the math guru |
| 00:44.59 | brlcad | so he's what vi looks like |
| 00:45.06 | ``Erik | key highway... rough fucking road, horribly rough, I was wincing the whole drive for my poor baby... but far far far faster than 395 |
| 00:45.24 | ``Erik | but in ed's cars, it's probably stomachable |
| 00:45.39 | brlcad | heh, i'm on that road just about every day to the boathouse |
| 00:45.49 | ``Erik | which, key, or 395 |
| 00:45.52 | brlcad | you drove by when you passed over the bridge |
| 00:45.54 | brlcad | key |
| 00:46.03 | ``Erik | I drove from hyatt to 95 |
| 00:46.18 | brlcad | yep |
| 00:46.22 | ``Erik | and my stupid nav system wigged and tried claiming I was many miles away and facing a different direction, heh |
| 00:46.25 | brlcad | that'd be the road |
| 00:46.37 | ``Erik | so you're not doing the conference, I guess |
| 00:46.42 | ``Erik | cuz, u, ain't really shit tomorrow |
| 00:46.45 | ``Erik | it's a half day |
| 00:46.54 | brlcad | yeah, not going |
| 00:47.03 | ``Erik | well, if you want ot see the materials, lemme know |
| 00:47.13 | brlcad | yup |
| 00:48.25 | ``Erik | a LITTLE bit of good material, mal seems to think the later sessions have been getting more beneficial |
| 00:48.44 | ``Erik | seing dudes I recognize from siggraph and rt |
| 00:49.51 | ``Erik | there was a german dude at siggraph05 with a bigassed nosering and I THINK blue hair... he has green hair now |
| 00:50.25 | brlcad | heh |
| 00:50.35 | brlcad | the one that works for nvidia? |
| 00:50.41 | ``Erik | ummmm, not sure |
| 00:51.28 | dtidrow_work | heh - if so, they probably made him change the hair color to green ;-) |
| 00:51.34 | ``Erik | hahahaha |
| 00:51.41 | ``Erik | but he was wearing black, not white... |
| 00:51.52 | ``Erik | stupid fucking nvidia *shakes fist* |
| 00:51.59 | dtidrow_work | ??? |
| 00:52.05 | dtidrow_work | better than ati |
| 00:52.26 | dtidrow_work | at least for non-Windows users |
| 00:52.29 | ``Erik | (they flew me down for an interview, I was nervous so I didn't eat or sleep for over 24 housr before the interview start... and I blew it, and they didn't hire me... :D so I'm shakin' my fist) |
| 00:52.45 | ``Erik | in '01 |
| 00:52.45 | dtidrow_work | ah |
| 00:53.02 | dtidrow_work | they seem to be rather hard up for people now, so try again ;-) |
| 00:53.36 | ``Erik | most of them were asking how much experience I had in smp driver writing, and all my machines were sp, not mp... I mean, all I had was theory and some userland on a dual fbsd |
| 00:54.02 | dtidrow_work | ah |
| 00:54.56 | dtidrow_work | yeah, haven't bothered to try with nvidia, don't have enough raw OpenGL or driver experience for them to be interested |
| 00:55.05 | ``Erik | <-- was porting their linux driver to fbsd, ran into a wall with ioctl issues (nvidia exploited a 'weirdness' in linux) |
| 00:55.16 | ``Erik | not a d3d guy, dti? :D |
| 00:55.34 | ``Erik | they've been cooking in general mb's and audio stuff, too |
| 00:55.54 | ``Erik | I wouldn't be surprised if they don't start pushing cpu's of some breed soon |
| 00:56.10 | ``Erik | especially given the recent ati/amd "fusion" chip announcement |
| 00:56.16 | dtidrow_work | d3d? yeecch |
| 00:56.47 | dtidrow_work | doesn't do anything useful that OpenGL doesn't also do |
| 00:57.06 | ``Erik | intel can't get in bed with nvidia like that, though, the 'corporate desktop' is an intel cpu and ati video |
| 00:57.39 | dtidrow_work | no, it's an intel cpu and integrated video on the intel chipset |
| 00:58.02 | ``Erik | <-- hardcore fbsd/mac guy, with strong ties to solaris and aix... won't argue with ya on d3d... |
| 00:58.21 | ``Erik | hum, the corporate desktops I've almost always seen... always had... were dells with intel cpu's and ati video |
| 00:58.34 | dtidrow_work | not anymore |
| 00:58.49 | dtidrow_work | at least not integrated on mobo |
| 00:58.55 | ``Erik | I've been workin' gov't for the last 3 and some change years... |
| 00:59.00 | ``Erik | so I'm not on the cutting edge anymore |
| 00:59.11 | ``Erik | we're able to sneak macs in, so I'm happy |
| 00:59.28 | ``Erik | and so far with the dulls, i've been able to wipe winderz and install some variant of bsd... |
| 00:59.46 | dtidrow_work | heh, neither am I - this Dell is over four years old now |
| 01:00.02 | dtidrow_work | though it does only have FC4 on it :-) |
| 01:00.23 | ``Erik | my impression was taht the i810's and i815's were for lamer home users, and low end radeons were corporate |
| 01:00.36 | ``Erik | ew, not just linux, but a redhat breed, my condolances |
| 01:00.56 | ``Erik | if you *HAVE* to use linux, why not debian? or mebe gentoo... haven't tried gentoo... |
| 01:01.18 | dtidrow_work | because it does what I need it to do, and I'm not an elitist |
| 01:01.21 | dtidrow_work | :-p |
| 01:01.30 | ``Erik | ehhehehe |
| 01:01.56 | ``Erik | ok, I do to much kernel shit, and I come from a security style background... so, uh, no linux... does... what I want... |
| 01:02.57 | ``Erik | :) |
| 01:18.51 | PrezKennedy | security is why windows rocks |
| 01:19.01 | PrezKennedy | sorry... cant say that with a straight face |
| 01:32.25 | dtidrow_work | rofl |
| 01:33.05 | dtidrow_work | (just got back to my desk) - PrezKennedy, you owe me a new keyboard ;-) |
| 01:33.30 | dtidrow_work | unless I can clean the Mt. Dew out of this one... |
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| 02:48.21 | DarkMaster | watch out, mountain dew is dangerous |
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| 13:23.58 | ``Erik | alexis |
| 13:24.01 | ``Erik | we are here |
| 13:24.17 | ``Erik | I'm at the round table in the upper lobby |
| 13:25.29 | ``Erik | lee is looking for you |
| 13:54.50 | clock_ | brlcad: I sent another hefty segfault into the bug database |
| 13:55.09 | clock_ | brlcad: did you look into my second report from yesterday where objects were improperly mirrored during editation? |
| 13:58.46 | brlcad | clock_: yes, I saw them both -- thanks |
| 14:00.39 | brlcad | it'll take a while to investigate both of them fully, but you did a good bit of the leg worth providing the stack trace |
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| 16:10.38 | clock_ | brlcad: is there a way when I have a cylinder that was subject to manual extension, rotation and translation, to figure out how tall it is? |
| 16:11.10 | clock_ | brlcad: I built a truss from 10mm cylinders and now I want to know how long the key pieces are to be able to start welding in the right proportion |
| 17:26.41 | brlcad | clock_: yes, do an l on the object -- you can get the height by looking at the H magnitude value or computing the distance between V and Top |
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| 04:07.53 | Maloeran | Hum. I don't think I had realized how messy my appartment was before I lived a week in a hotel suite |
| 04:43.59 | Twingy | you can clean my room up when you're done |
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| 16:13.56 | murat | hi all |
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| 02:26.52 | CIA-6 | BRL-CAD: 03johnranderson * 10brlcad/src/mged/red.c: Improved error checking |
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| 04:44.42 | Noobie | can anyone get me past the ./configure portion of the install |
| 04:45.17 | Noobie | i don't know if I can even get there i'm using Knoppix as my OS |
| 04:53.13 | Noobie | can anyone help? |
| 04:53.43 | Noobie | I will try again later |
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| 05:27.30 | ``Erik | o.O |
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| 13:40.38 | Maloeran | Erik, this ray-triangle benchmark of yours is completely broken |
| 13:41.12 | Maloeran | I print out planes from the test, and I get a bunch of 0.0 equations, leading to infinities and NaNs ; obviously it's slow |
| 14:17.50 | Twingy | he's ray-tracing imaginary planes, duh |
| 14:27.06 | Maloeran | I would fix the code but that's just one of several things that don't seem quite right in there... |
| 14:33.47 | Twingy | consider yourself a code archaeologist then, fixing remnants of the past |
| 14:34.45 | Twingy | I'd say similar to the myth busters, but they have a habit of taking 500 year old technology and making it worse |
| 15:41.25 | Maloeran | Hrmph. The public letter of Husseim to the united states contain way too many religious believes and statements, which is not technically a good move when dealing with followers of different... hypothesises |
| 15:55.35 | Twingy | hypotheses |
| 16:27.23 | Maloeran | Thanks |
| 16:28.12 | Twingy | I have soooo many optimizations to do in gcam it's daunting |
| 16:28.19 | Twingy | I have no motivation to do it either cause just about everything is instantaneous |
| 16:28.39 | Maloeran | Eheh, nice. It has been some time since I had wrote this kind of software |
| 16:29.00 | Twingy | all 2d intersection math so far |
| 16:29.00 | Twingy | 2.5 dimensional |
| 16:29.19 | Twingy | after getting this far with the project, you could transform just about any CAD package file format into a CAM ready file format if ordering is preserved |
| 16:29.19 | Maloeran | Neat |
| 16:29.29 | Twingy | but nobody seems to do that |
| 16:29.37 | Twingy | order is not preserved and hence individuals have to come up with elaborate algorithms to figure out what the designer was thinking at the time of modeling because it was lost |
| 16:29.41 | Twingy | I wouldn't be surprised if there are some cad packages that preserve this |
| 16:29.42 | Twingy | preserved in a manner that was originally intended, not derived from a timestamp or something that just "happened" to be there |
| 16:29.42 | Twingy | the disconnect between BRL-CAD and CAM is huge |
| 16:29.42 | Twingy | you'd need g-code |
| 16:29.42 | Twingy | even something as 'trivial' as a box requires breaking it into layers, computing offsets, adding depth to break the part away at the end |
| 16:29.43 | Twingy | you might end up with 500 lines of g-code for a box |
| 16:29.43 | Twingy | especially if it's steel |
| 16:29.43 | Twingy | foam might be 50 - 80 lines |
| 16:29.43 | Maloeran | Why the difference between steel and foam? |
| 16:30.23 | Twingy | steel is slightly less hard than the end-mill (carbide usually) and therefore requires that you be very slow and conservative on your cuts otherwise you risk causing the stepper motors to skip a 'step' (1.8/20 deg) or cause and end-mill to snap |
| 16:30.25 | Twingy | it's always a function of the end-mill, mill cnc steppers, and material being cut |
| 16:30.25 | Maloeran | Okay. I wouldn't have thought going very slow would require 10 times more code |
| 16:30.27 | Twingy | it's a multidimensional problem |
| 16:30.27 | Twingy | and smaller the end mill doesn't necessarily mean you can cut faster |
| 16:30.28 | Twingy | there is a curve, once you hit about 1/8" you have to start slowing down |
| 16:30.28 | Twingy | otherwise you will snap it |
| 16:30.28 | Twingy | Maloeran, your layers are .001" instead of .01" |
| 16:30.29 | Twingy | each layers requires 4 or more lines of g-code, depending on tapering |
| 16:30.29 | Maloeran | Right, okay |
| 16:30.30 | Twingy | so as you can imagine you have machine profiles and endmill profiles |
| 16:30.31 | Twingy | so that the software can figure out 'safe' operating limits |
| 16:30.31 | Twingy | the g-code driving software is stupid |
| 16:30.31 | Twingy | it doesn't care if you try to make it go 100km/h with a 2cm diameter endmill |
| 16:30.32 | Twingy | it doesn't even know what the tool diameter is |
| 16:30.32 | Maloeran | Well, it's low level and does what it's told I am assuming ; which is a good thing |
| 16:30.33 | Twingy | yep |
| 16:30.33 | Twingy | now emc has tried to bridge that gap |
| 16:30.33 | Twingy | and make the driver smarter |
| 16:30.34 | Twingy | a little too smart in my opinion |
| 16:30.34 | Maloeran | You probably lose some flexibility that way |
| 16:30.34 | Twingy | well, if you have a good cam package, all you need is a stupid driver |
| 16:30.35 | Twingy | if you have a crappy cam package, or you do g-code by hand (gasp) you need a smart driver |
| 16:30.35 | Twingy | gcam is like a g-code compiler |
| 16:30.35 | Twingy | by pure definition, it's a compiler |
| 16:30.36 | Maloeran | Eheh yes, a visual compiler in some ways too |
| 16:30.36 | Twingy | right |
| 16:31.14 | Twingy | with like 8 asm instructions :) |
| 16:31.23 | Twingy | very analogous to coding an 8-bit pic chip |
| 16:31.49 | Twingy | doing floating point math (your csg cube) can be done, but it requires many instructions |
| 16:37.17 | Twingy | I suppose at some point one will be able to measure the efficiency of their code by the number of electrons required to solve the problem |
| 16:41.37 | Maloeran | I don'T think it is possible to compute the minimal electron count required to implement an algorithm within a context of hardware processing |
| 16:59.57 | Twingy | today's current hardware, no |
| 17:00.48 | Twingy | a practical measurement for today would be something around nano watts |
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| 17:10.23 | Noobie | is anyone available? |
| 17:10.46 | Noobie | I need some help installing brlcad |
| 17:11.06 | Noobie | i'm using Knoppix as my OS so I'm not even sure if it is possible |
| 17:22.37 | Twingy | just idle until you find somone |
| 17:24.29 | Noobie | will do |
| 18:30.19 | Noobie | gotta go... out |
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| 23:08.11 | ``Erik | me too, when I play games.. but I did that before with my c64, heh :D |
| 23:09.06 | Twingy | I envision in like 20 years this disturbing looking cable with like 17 adapters on it |
| 23:09.21 | Twingy | sticking 3 feet out of the back of the computer |
| 23:09.27 | Twingy | angled 30 degrees |
| 23:09.35 | Twingy | held in with duct tape |
| 23:10.10 | Twingy | whose combined processing power is 1 week of a C64 just to send a character code |
| 23:13.23 | ``Erik | hehehe |
| 23:13.43 | ``Erik | I have new ps2 kbd's, but I like my old mitsumi precision din kbd a lot more *shrug* |
| 23:14.12 | ``Erik | tho I do like the apple clear&white usb kbd's a lot |
| 23:17.32 | Twingy | yes, they are good |
| 23:17.43 | Twingy | I'm just amazed this natural touch has lasted under such abuse |
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| 18:12.32 | ``Erik | http://shadowdane.shackspace.com/cats.htm |
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| 19:21.23 | Maloeran | Erik, could you some time give me debugging information on that big endian graph cache loading crash thing? |
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| 01:49.53 | Twingy | siggraph 2007 advertisement |
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| 01:40.22 | ``Erik | (any anything with a bang is worth thinking twice about) |
| 01:40.27 | ``Erik | woops, wrong chan |
| 01:44.08 | brlcad | bang skippy |
| 01:44.42 | ``Erik | ! in scheme means side effect, which means no referential transperancy, ... eliminates several categories of optimizations |
| 01:45.37 | brlcad | !printf(!hogwash) |
| 01:46.09 | ``Erik | that's C, not scheme |
| 01:46.11 | ``Erik | ... |
| 01:46.29 | brlcad | not really, just banging |
| 01:49.44 | Twingy | is some one going to hand to hand prasad a torch tomorrow? |
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| 18:43.41 | ``Erik | http://antibody.za.net/backstrokeofwest/ |
| 18:44.56 | brlcad | captions there be, mangled cool they are |
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| 23:29.22 | pra5ad | gah |
| 23:29.32 | pra5ad | this new xchat has no users list |
| 00:19.51 | Twingy | yes it does |
| 00:19.58 | Twingy | I think you have to turn it on |
| 00:20.02 | Twingy | or drag the divider |
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| 01:43.36 | brlcad | dtidrow_work: working late? |
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| 13:05.54 | CIA-6 | BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/autogen.sh: add a check during manual configuration for whether the gbs is even used, i.e. whether a configure template is found so that we can abort more cleanly early |
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| 19:30.05 | CIA-6 | BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/TODO: add a make target and/or an update script for facilitating the release process. |
| 19:41.14 | CIA-6 | BRL-CAD: 03bob1961 * 10brlcad/src/tclscripts/archer/Archer.tcl: Disable component picking if NOT in BRLCAD mode. |
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| 03:34.53 | Twingy | hrm |
| 03:35.00 | Twingy | logging into a mailbox with pine that hasn't been checked in 2 years might not be good |
| 03:35.37 | Twingy | <PROTECTED> |
| 03:36.19 | Twingy | that's 11 months of mail |
| 06:22.03 | brlcad | hehe |
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| 18:57.05 | *** topic/#brlcad is http://ftp.brlcad.org (mirror of http://brlcad.org, down for 'maintenance') || BRL-CAD is an open source solid modeling software suite || Developers needed! Read the HACKING file for details on getting involved || Release 7.8.4 is posted, next release will be 7.10.0 | |
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| 19:31.49 | brlcad | test34: failed? |
| 19:49.09 | b0ef | would be nice if focus didn't follow mouse |
| 19:49.45 | b0ef | it makes M-TAB impossible |
| 19:51.35 | test34 | brlcad, no nothing else failed, I didnt get to it again yet |
| 19:54.10 | brlcad | b0ef: that's usually something controlled by your window manager, and easily turned off (or use a different window manager that does disable it) |
| 19:54.34 | brlcad | test34: twas but a joke based on your nick :) |
| 19:54.56 | test34 | brlcad, ahhh ok;) |
| 19:55.40 | b0ef | brlcad: but why does this only happen with brlcad? |
| 20:24.05 | brlcad | b0ef: which platform are you on? |
| 20:24.40 | b0ef | brlcad: GNU/Linux with metacity-2.12.1 |
| 20:25.13 | brlcad | and focus doesn't follow mouse if you move to another app? |
| 20:26.06 | b0ef | brlcad: well, in a way, but with brlcad it's impossible to M-TAB the command window when the cursor is in the model window |
| 20:27.04 | b0ef | brlcad: I have to move the mouse over the command window every time I want to enter a command |
| 20:28.43 | b0ef | brlcad: am I making myself clear? |
| 20:30.44 | brlcad | ah, yes |
| 20:31.11 | b0ef | ;) |
| 20:31.14 | brlcad | then the complaint really is that it's one a unified window but instead several independent windows ;) |
| 20:31.23 | brlcad | er, that it's not one window |
| 20:31.47 | b0ef | ?, not sure I follow |
| 20:32.00 | b0ef | I really like the separation of windows |
| 20:32.36 | brlcad | input-wise, what you're wanting is something like having two browser windows open, typing in one but have it show up in the other ;) |
| 20:32.53 | b0ef | yes |
| 20:33.02 | brlcad | just that these windows happen to look/behave different |
| 20:33.04 | b0ef | I intend to use emacs as my input window when I get to it |
| 20:33.32 | b0ef | I'm not sure if we're talking past eachother;) |
| 20:33.45 | brlcad | know, I think I get what you're wanting.. |
| 20:33.52 | brlcad | how to get there is unclear |
| 20:34.14 | b0ef | I want two separate windows, gimp style |
| 20:34.22 | b0ef | I thought this was the intention;) |
| 20:34.57 | b0ef | but they behave like they somehow have a relationship;) |
| 20:35.03 | brlcad | it is, though individual windows don't generally aquire focus in gimp |
| 20:35.14 | brlcad | aside from the main context ones |
| 20:35.29 | brlcad | the difference here is that there are two main context windows always |
| 20:35.47 | brlcad | with different bindings for each |
| 20:36.06 | brlcad | if the graphics window didn't have key bindings, it'd be easy.. you'd just pass it all through to the command window |
| 20:36.34 | brlcad | what if there were something like a command window toggle |
| 20:37.00 | b0ef | well, I really intend to use emacs for brlcad, but have gotten that far, yet |
| 20:37.00 | brlcad | like hitting M-c would switch focus or something |
| 20:37.35 | brlcad | "use emacs for brlcad" can mean a whole lot of things |
| 20:37.49 | b0ef | yeah, that would work, but is it not possible to make M-TAB work? |
| 20:37.51 | b0ef | well, a brlcad mode |
| 20:37.59 | b0ef | instead of using the command window |
| 20:38.55 | brlcad | a geometry major mode for emacs would be sweet |
| 20:39.01 | b0ef | ;) |
| 20:39.11 | brlcad | looked into it a little bit years ago, but never got off the ground |
| 20:39.46 | brlcad | something akin to tar mode would work well for dealing with .g files in emacs |
| 20:41.47 | b0ef | is verse something planned for brlcad?;) |
| 20:43.55 | b0ef | maybe a bit premature;) |
| 20:45.09 | brlcad | you mean using verse itself to communicate |
| 20:45.17 | brlcad | or distributed modeling in general? |
| 20:45.34 | b0ef | distributed modeling;) |
| 20:45.43 | brlcad | ahh, yes that is planned |
| 20:45.52 | brlcad | though whether verse would be used remains to be seen |
| 20:46.23 | brlcad | there are several rather viable approaches including verse for the communication backend |
| 20:47.54 | b0ef | how about making brlcad a daemon? |
| 20:49.23 | b0ef | then connect interfaces like mged |
| 20:50.08 | b0ef | and OSC for command protocol;) |
| 21:04.27 | brlcad | b0ef: that's actually not far off how it currently behaves |
| 21:05.04 | brlcad | and is exactly what the new interface will do as well, though with a more rigorously defined interface |
| 21:05.35 | brlcad | OSC? |
| 21:05.42 | brlcad | operations support command? |
| 21:06.50 | brlcad | or the sound communications protocol? |
| 21:24.45 | b0ef | brlcad: excellent;) |
| 21:24.59 | b0ef | brlcad: yeah, the sound protocol |
| 21:25.33 | b0ef | the sound in the name is a little misleading;) |
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| 08:08.43 | brlcad | Maloeran: ping |
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| 08:49.32 | brlcad | Maloeran: if you happen to have a nice screenshot handy, I could use it -- something benign but interesting |
| 08:50.13 | brlcad | plus I'm looking at formulating rough performance bounds in terms of rays/s for comparison purposes |
| 08:50.26 | clock_ | brlcad: what is the meaning of the second number on matrix line? |
| 08:50.34 | clock_ | Is it input X output Y or input Y output X? |
| 08:51.06 | brlcad | Maloeran: librt sits at roughly 100k to 1M, adrt at 500k to 5M, rayforce at ? |
| 08:51.45 | brlcad | Maloeran: also would it be okay to provide a link to your site (rayforce.net)? |
| 08:52.00 | brlcad | clock_: what matrix line? |
| 08:52.50 | clock_ | brlcad: if you edit matrix in a text editor, it is on a line as a sequence of 16 numbers |
| 08:53.06 | brlcad | 4x4 matrix, homogeneous coordinates |
| 08:53.23 | clock_ | what is the meaning of the second number on matrix line? |
| 08:53.59 | brlcad | still not sure if you mean the second of 16 or some other line? |
| 08:54.05 | clock_ | second of 16 |
| 08:54.11 | brlcad | it's 16 values that form the 4x4 matrix |
| 08:54.35 | clock_ | the second value is not 16 values. The second value is just one value. |
| 08:54.57 | brlcad | that's not what I was saying |
| 08:55.09 | clock_ | what is the meaning of the second number on matrix line? |
| 08:55.30 | brlcad | i'm saying it's a 4x4 transformation matrix :) .. so the second value is simply the second element of that matrix |
| 08:56.07 | clock_ | it's good to know that the second element is a second element |
| 08:56.32 | brlcad | to say that is "is" anything other than that would be rather misleading |
| 08:56.36 | clock_ | but what is the meaning? |
| 08:56.46 | clock_ | the meaning of the first element is input X output X |
| 08:57.04 | brlcad | if applied to a vector in a multiplication, it has one effect, if applied via some different operation, it has a different result |
| 08:57.04 | clock_ | but the meaning of the second element may be input X output Y, *OR* input Y output X |
| 08:57.13 | clock_ | Depending if you scan the matrix by rows or by columns |
| 08:57.17 | clock_ | So what is the meaning? |
| 08:59.10 | brlcad | i'm still not understanding where you're getting input and output from |
| 08:59.18 | brlcad | input to what? output to what? |
| 08:59.32 | clock_ | It is a transform matrix, right? |
| 08:59.38 | brlcad | yep |
| 08:59.42 | clock_ | That means it's a matrix that defines some transform. |
| 08:59.51 | brlcad | naturally |
| 08:59.58 | clock_ | Transform is something where you throw something in, and something else falls out |
| 09:00.17 | brlcad | that's one way to look at it I suppose |
| 09:00.18 | clock_ | We can imagine it like a box which has a funnel at the top and holet at the bottom |
| 09:00.28 | clock_ | We take a point in 3D space and throw it into the funnel |
| 09:00.35 | brlcad | i tend to think of a transform as something you apply, and you get a result |
| 09:00.37 | clock_ | Some other point in 3D space falls out from the bottom |
| 09:00.50 | clock_ | Now how the transform works inside |
| 09:01.10 | clock_ | When the point falls into the funnel it's taken apart into X, Y and Z coordinates |
| 09:01.18 | clock_ | like 3 drinks |
| 09:01.34 | clock_ | and there is a bartender inside which mixes the input 3 drinks into 3 output drinks |
| 09:01.47 | brlcad | i think you're perhaps just used to characterizing it how you've come to understand/visualize it as opposed to the actual operations that go on |
| 09:01.53 | clock_ | The matrix tells him how much of each input drink should go into each output drink |
| 09:02.06 | brlcad | there are tons of ways to conceptualize it |
| 09:02.20 | clock_ | He has kinda table, where he has "input drinks" and "output drinks" |
| 09:02.30 | clock_ | This table is called the transform matrix |
| 09:02.36 | clock_ | You took the table and flattened it out |
| 09:02.56 | clock_ | However there are two ways how to flatten. You can read it like a book, or read it like Chinese do - by columns |
| 09:03.00 | brlcad | i don't think you're listening |
| 09:04.02 | clock_ | You are unable to answer the question whether the second number of 16 has meaning "coefficient for propagation of input X into output Y" or "coefficient of propagation of input Y into output X". |
| 09:04.20 | clock_ | That's a basic knowledge of how affine transformations work, sorry |
| 09:05.43 | brlcad | heh, whatever .. i'm pretty sure it's just a difference of semantics and language familiarity |
| 09:05.55 | clock_ | But I want to know it, because without this knowledge I cannot produce the right sequence of 16 numbers for a given transform |
| 09:06.14 | clock_ | If you cannot tell me that, I will have to perform an experiment in brl-cad |
| 09:06.27 | clock_ | Or, alternatively |
| 09:06.31 | brlcad | i think you're just asking is element two on the second column or the second row, and the answer would be it's the second row |
| 09:06.40 | clock_ | we have a transform that transforms (x,y,z) into (x+y, y, z) |
| 09:06.49 | clock_ | What sequence of 16 numbers corresponds to this transform? |
| 09:07.20 | clock_ | Knowing the row or column is not enough |
| 09:07.38 | clock_ | There are 2 ways how matrix multiplication can be defined, which differ by swapping rows and columns |
| 09:07.52 | brlcad | along with the fact that it's a right-handed coordinate system |
| 09:07.56 | clock_ | What sequence of 16 numbers corresponds to the transform (x,y,z) -> (x+y, y, z)? |
| 09:11.18 | clock_ | brlcad: can you please figure it out? |
| 09:20.05 | brlcad | actually, i'm just in the middle of preparing a presentation, while trying to placate your oddly worded question... how to apply a matrix seems rather obvious .. even with your case, it's not clear how to relate the matrix elements to your question exactly -- the diagonal is along elements 0, 5, 10 (and 15 for homogenity) -- if I understand you correctly, the matrix would be something like 1 1 0 0 0 1 0 0 0 0 1 0 0 0 0 1 |
| 09:22.07 | clock_ | I think it's completely clear |
| 09:23.13 | clock_ | so if you put this matrix into a combination, the element of the combination will be transformed so that point (1,1,1) in the original element will map onto (2,1,1)? |
| 09:24.17 | clock_ | This is so typical for mathematicians - they can calculate 1+1 by integral, but if you ask them "which of your hands is right and which left", they reply "I don't think I understand your question completely" |
| 09:29.31 | clock_ | brlcad: if a point is transformed by matrix in brl-cad, is it put into a matrix 3 high and 1 wide, or 3 wide and 1 high? |
| 09:36.52 | clock_ | Does it make sense if the last 4 numbers are anything else than 0 0 0 1? |
| 09:39.08 | brlcad | technically, all vectors (and matrices) are stored via regular C arrays, so 3 "wide" would probably be how you'd interpret that if that's how you conceptualize int a[10]; as being 10 wide |
| 09:39.42 | brlcad | yes, it "can" make sense, but rarely is anything but homogeneous |
| 09:44.17 | brlcad | the biggest difference with your question earlier is that really there is more than one way to think about it -- you have found one way that you are comfortable with that works for you but that is by far not the only way to think about it and/or word it |
| 09:45.00 | brlcad | all just a matter of perspective |
| 09:45.01 | clock_ | Well let's formulate the question more precisely |
| 09:45.01 | clock_ | If I edit a combination, the combination can consist of several elements. |
| 09:45.15 | clock_ | Each element has a line. That line holds a sequence of 16 numbers which define a transformation |
| 09:45.36 | clock_ | Element is taken, transformed by that and then processed by logical operators in the combination. |
| 09:46.20 | clock_ | So does the 2nd number mean how X of the original element is mapped into Y of the processed one, or vice versa? |
| 09:46.43 | clock_ | You cannot say "it's a matter of perspective now", because then the behaviour of BRL-CAD would depend on perspective of it's user, which it doesn't |
| 09:46.44 | brlcad | a 4x4 homogeneous tranformation to a right-hand ruled coordinate system where +z is in the up direction |
| 09:47.00 | brlcad | that alone should be enough information |
| 09:47.17 | clock_ | No it isn't. |
| 09:47.31 | clock_ | I can construct 2 interpretations of this that produce different results with the same sequence of 16 numbers |
| 09:48.02 | brlcad | what is this second interpretation that is not left-hand ruled? |
| 09:48.31 | clock_ | First interpretation is that the points are put into vectors that are standing |
| 09:48.36 | clock_ | second that they are lying |
| 09:48.37 | brlcad | knowing that the values are perhaps not interlaced, are in incremental order by rows |
| 09:48.42 | clock_ | Then the matrix has different effect on the points |
| 09:49.07 | clock_ | Still, the effect is dependent on if the points are fed into standing vectors or lying vectors |
| 09:49.22 | brlcad | you're referring to the actual storage I think, which could be either way |
| 09:49.40 | brlcad | i.e. if I have int a[4][4]; |
| 09:49.54 | brlcad | or similarly int a[16]; |
| 09:49.57 | clock_ | you can tranform vector v as |
| 09:50.01 | clock_ | vA or Av |
| 09:50.15 | clock_ | in the first case v is a lying vector, in the other a standing one |
| 09:50.40 | clock_ | Depending on which case you use, the same matrix A has different effect on the v |
| 09:50.41 | brlcad | which therein I think perhaps shows the discrepancy |
| 09:50.56 | clock_ | The same matrix represents a different transformation |
| 09:51.03 | brlcad | on paper it makes a difference, in code it only really works one way |
| 09:51.16 | clock_ | And I am just asking which way ;-) |
| 09:51.22 | brlcad | and int a[3] doesn't have to be thought of as being wide or tall |
| 09:51.32 | brlcad | it's just three values in order |
| 09:52.01 | brlcad | vA can work as can Av .. it's up to use that determines which you get |
| 09:52.06 | clock_ | Let's define cube.s which is rpp 0 1 0 1 0 1 |
| 09:52.17 | clock_ | then c combo.c cube.s |
| 09:52.27 | brlcad | i'm sorry, I shouldn't have gotten started |
| 09:52.35 | brlcad | it's way too late to keep going on this track here |
| 09:52.44 | clock_ | OK good luck with presentation |
| 09:52.57 | brlcad | wednesday |
| 09:53.03 | brlcad | but dry run tomorrow |
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| 16:01.06 | ``Erik | *yawn* |
| 16:05.18 | ``Erik | brlcad: rayforce gets about 1.7-1.8 mil ray/sec on a 2.0ghz g5 (no altivec, single thread) on 267534 triangles, and 4.5-8 mil ray/sec on an opteron with sse (still single threaded) |
| 16:07.45 | ``Erik | and in the neighborhood of 25k-29k lines of code, depending on which program you ask |
| 16:20.46 | Maloeran | brlcad, screenshot like http://www.rayforce.net/smooth000.png perhaps? |
| 16:21.37 | Maloeran | How much ram does an o200 have? |
| 16:22.24 | Maloeran | You sure can provide a link to rayforce.net if you want, it's currently redirected to some draft of website put together by Survice |
| 16:22.25 | ``Erik | the one I'm thinking have has I think 1.2g |
| 16:22.52 | ``Erik | 1.125g, actually |
| 16:22.57 | ``Erik | and TWO 180mhz r10k processors |
| 16:22.58 | ``Erik | :D |
| 16:23.05 | Maloeran | Woohoo |
| 16:47.10 | pra5ad | what fps rate do u get for that m1a1 |
| 16:48.18 | ``Erik | it's gone |
| 16:48.25 | Maloeran | Depends of the resolution, light sources, sampling, normal smoothing... |
| 16:48.29 | ``Erik | and it was an a2 |
| 16:48.59 | pra5ad | for that screenshot |
| 16:49.00 | ``Erik | rfdemo just does primary ray and flat shading, no shadow rays or anything, right mal? |
| 16:49.25 | Maloeran | Right, I didn't import this code yet |
| 16:50.15 | Maloeran | I think it was 6-8fps on my amd64 desktop, single processor |
| 16:50.26 | ``Erik | so on a 2.0ghz single core opteron, with one light source and shadoing, probably ~7fps at 800x600 |
| 16:50.40 | pra5ad | ah |
| 16:51.04 | Maloeran | Erik, the a2 is _much_ lighter than the truck |
| 16:51.23 | Maloeran | The truck is saturated of long thin packed triangles that are difficultt o handle |
| 16:51.59 | ``Erik | long thin triangles are a fact of life. :( |
| 16:52.04 | Maloeran | You really have to put ADRT on that model too if you want to compare |
| 16:52.12 | ``Erik | yeah, and rt |
| 16:52.25 | Maloeran | It happens with converted CSG models, but modellers don't generally produce that kind of geometry |
| 16:52.44 | ``Erik | probably happens with converted tnurbs, too |
| 16:53.07 | ``Erik | outside of the game world, geometry generally comes in tnurb or csg as far as I can tell |
| 16:53.33 | Maloeran | The CSG converter also leaves "gaps", apparently tesselating two distinct but connected curved surfaces differently and it creates small gaps |
| 16:53.42 | ``Erik | oh crap, I left my slippers at home :/ |
| 16:54.02 | ``Erik | gaps and overlaps, yes |
| 16:54.20 | ``Erik | especially how we do the tnurb to triangle conversion |
| 16:54.24 | ``Erik | :/ |
| 16:54.41 | Maloeran | I mean serious gaps, covering the whole viewport if I zoom enough, not just some numerical problems that the raytracer would correctly handle |
| 16:55.00 | ``Erik | yes... serious gaps... many mm... |
| 16:56.21 | ``Erik | if you took a manhole, tesselated the ground with, oh, 20 edges (say 40 triangles for the outter rim), and tesselated the cover with 40 triangles but started from a different orientation, there would be serious gapping and overlapping... annnddddd that's what we get on curved surfaces with the current solution :) |
| 16:56.52 | Maloeran | I see, understood |
| 16:57.44 | Maloeran | Curved facets wouldn't quite solve the manhole situation though. Tricky thing |
| 16:59.45 | Maloeran | My current curved facets make all points of an edge being aligned on a plane, plane which can be oriented in any direction |
| 17:00.35 | Maloeran | Non-planar edges could actually work |
| 17:03.21 | ``Erik | meh, just add dimensions until everything is planar ;) |
| 17:04.01 | Maloeran | Seriously, we could have curved facets with non-planar edges, the math wouldn't be that slow |
| 17:05.21 | Maloeran | 4 curved facets can make a sphere. One curved facet with non-planar edge could make a perfect... circle |
| 17:05.57 | ``Erik | mmm a perfect circle... *looks through his playlist* |
| 17:10.19 | Maloeran | Hrm sorry, not a perfect circle, of course. That would require some expensive extra steps that should probably be avoided for the sake of performance |
| 17:25.00 | ``Erik | but the band is still cool |
| 18:06.29 | CIA-21 | BRL-CAD: 03erikgreenwald * 10brlcad/include/machine.h: fix for fbsd7/sparc64 (hopefully) |
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| 23:42.01 | brlcad | Maloeran: that'll work quite nicely, thanks |
| 23:43.08 | brlcad | and given erik's numbers, it sounds like i'm in the right ballpark of 1-10M depending on the model and other factors |
| 23:45.40 | brlcad | which is to highly estimate a lower bound if more lights and shading effects were to be enabled, full pass thorugh rays, etc |
| 23:48.29 | brlcad | still coming out way ahead, and keeps expectations sensible given the audience |
| 23:49.55 | brlcad | Maloeran: I have to ask given the image, but is it safe to assume that image is okay for release .. it's not a model that was provided to you by someone at arl or survice, I hope? otherwise, I'll have additional paperwork to do |
| 23:54.27 | brlcad | Twingy: ping |
| 00:09.18 | Twingy | pong |
| 00:12.43 | Maloeran | It came from Twingy yes, the story surrounding that model is a bit messy... but that's just a screenshot, can it be a problem? |
| 00:17.11 | Twingy | http://www.3dcadbrowser.com/preview.aspx?ModelCode=634 |
| 00:23.00 | brlcad | Twingy: is that to imply, the video is okay for release? form 1'd to dod or open to anyone? |
| 00:23.39 | brlcad | Maloeran: entirely depends whose model it is in general |
| 00:24.07 | brlcad | assuming it's the model in 3dcadbrowser, then no it's not a problem at all |
| 00:25.13 | brlcad | it looked a little too artistic to be a cad model, but have to make sure |
| 00:26.26 | brlcad | though it looks like it could have very well been derived from one |
| 00:38.14 | Maloeran | There's nothing cad about it, no inner part or engine, just an outer layer |
| 00:38.37 | Maloeran | So quite likely an artistic model |
| 00:39.36 | Twingy | brlcad, what do you think if it came off a public website? |
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| 01:34.05 | Maloeran | The fact that it's an artistic model must explain why it's so raytracing-friendly too, the difference with Lee's truck is dramatic |
| 01:43.50 | brlcad | probably several factors contributing |
| 01:44.35 | brlcad | but at a glance, it just doesn't look like cad data traditionally looks.. not sure how to quantify it |
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| 05:19.11 | *** topic/#brlcad is http://ftp.brlcad.org (mirror of http://brlcad.org, down for 'maintenance') || BRL-CAD is an open source solid modeling software suite || Developers needed! Read the HACKING file for details on getting involved || Release 7.8.4 is posted, next release will be 7.10.0 | |
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| 16:05.30 | CIA-21 | BRL-CAD: 03erikgreenwald * 10brlcad/src/mged/sedit.h: Metaball point picking |
| 16:29.49 | CIA-21 | BRL-CAD: 03erikgreenwald * 10brlcad/src/mged/edsol.c: metaball point picking and moving |
| 18:03.01 | brlcad | nifty |
| 18:25.57 | ``Erik | heh, playing with it? |
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| 21:52.20 | brlcad | ``Erik: pingish |
| 22:00.21 | brlcad | would you happen to be able to compile/provide a staticly linked version of rfdemo? |
| 22:01.24 | brlcad | sdl site is down, need to demo it but can't get a compile |
| 22:01.24 | brlcad | (for mac os x) |
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| 23:36.56 | ``Erik | brlcad: on the fileserver, /r/FreeBSD/ports/distfiles/ has a copy of SDL source |
| 23:38.21 | ``Erik | if you can't get it, I can pull it off one of my machines here and chuck it somewhere for you, I think I have it in my darwinports dir |
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| 02:09.55 | brlcad | ahh, server's back up now |
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| 14:33.41 | pho | cool, got a couple fastgen models converted to rtml.. |
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| 16:28.44 | Maloeran | That shouldn't have been too hard :), a temporary format as simple as it can be |
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| 08:46.00 | K4rl33 | Hi all |
| 08:46.21 | K4rl33 | Someone know a irc network where I can find a cad community? |
| 09:47.05 | clock_ | Stalinism in USA! Emigrate before it's too late! |
| 09:47.22 | clock_ | http://en.wikinews.org/wiki/UCLA_student_tasered_repeatedly. |
| 09:47.47 | clock_ | See the video. The UCLA student was apparently tortured and bullied by police just because he forgot his university card! |
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| 17:11.27 | wiljaxon | Hi! Is anyone able to advise on how to export 2D drawings for dxf output? |
| 17:56.45 | ``Erik | http://freebsdgirl.com/~sektie/pics/cat_2006-11-15.JPG |
| 19:33.24 | archivist | "but our meals taste of dog on thursdays" |
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| 23:33.55 | ``Erik | izzit 'en cognito' or 'in cognito'? |
| 23:33.58 | ``Erik | woops |
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| 17:25.08 | Maloeran | The SSE shuffle instructions unable to do arbitrary shuffling doesn't help, it has to be hard-coded at compilation time. Gah, where's my Altivec |
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| 16:15.21 | ``Erik | hm, prasad's not here |
| 16:31.40 | brlcad | astute observation |
| 16:31.59 | ``Erik | <-- has a stupid question for the boy |
| 16:32.18 | brlcad | is there any other sort that he can handle? |
| 16:32.24 | ``Erik | (here as in 'in channel', not geographically) |
| 16:32.34 | ``Erik | ummm, actually, there may be some :) |
| 16:33.00 | ``Erik | just gotta ask up his alley... he was horribly misapplied on that team. |
| 16:33.27 | brlcad | you mean, questions about burning itching and open sores? |
| 16:34.18 | ``Erik | some kinds of hardware questions, actually o.O |
| 16:34.25 | ``Erik | (in a mood? usually I'm the asshole... :D ) |
| 16:35.06 | brlcad | in a good mood |
| 16:35.11 | brlcad | he's just an easy target |
| 16:35.14 | ``Erik | true |
| 16:35.17 | ``Erik | are you on site today/ |
| 16:35.21 | brlcad | nope |
| 16:35.25 | ``Erik | ah |
| 16:35.32 | ``Erik | <-- half tempted to go get a beer o.O |
| 16:37.09 | ``Erik | just don't give teh google any cookies. heh |
| 16:38.18 | ``Erik | woop |
| 16:38.20 | ``Erik | s |
| 16:46.14 | ``Erik | holy crap, the dmg for xcode 2.4.1 is 923 megs |
| 16:47.55 | brlcad | nice |
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| 16:52.22 | ``Erik | on the fileserver in /r/Darwin/ if you want... |
| 16:52.56 | brlcad | aiight |
| 16:53.17 | ``Erik | (still copying... give it a few minutes) |
| 19:30.29 | Maloeran | http://goddess.selfip.com/random/Motivation/Courage.jpg |
| 19:36.45 | ``Erik | cute poster, and every good robot dies some day :/ |
| 19:42.13 | dtidrow | it's offically dead now? |
| 19:42.16 | dtidrow | bummer |
| 19:46.50 | Maloeran | They'll try to contact it from Rover on the surface but the odds are very poor |
| 19:48.49 | dtidrow | yeah |
| 19:49.47 | dtidrow | it's been living on borrowed time for a while now, anyway - it's lasted five times longer than originally planned for |
| 20:23.36 | ``Erik | O.o |
| 20:52.05 | brlcad | yeah, had a great run |
| 20:55.36 | brlcad | Maloeran: the presentation was a hit, your proggie was one of the highlights of the show too |
| 20:55.45 | brlcad | thanks for your help with the screenshot and datum |
| 20:58.41 | brlcad | there was a fare bit of mildly decent discussions about the tradeoffs and considerations of the high speed tracing for analysis purposes |
| 21:02.31 | brlcad | i'll post up the presentation in a week or two after it's more comprehensively reviewed and polished for your to see unless you'd like to see it as is now fouo |
| 21:11.11 | ``Erik | did it get taped? |
| 21:11.57 | brlcad | no, DoD audience |
| 21:12.26 | ``Erik | ah, heh |
| 21:12.31 | brlcad | mostly jaspo, jtcg, army, navy, air force, nasa |
| 21:12.46 | brlcad | +contractors |
| 21:13.26 | ``Erik | oh, uh, so the gist of the presentation, given the audience, is "we can make it go faster. <silent pause> The End." |
| 21:13.43 | ``Erik | O:-) |
| 21:14.58 | brlcad | even higher level than that sorta |
| 21:16.08 | brlcad | here's what brl-cad is, here's how it fits in to the big pictures, here's some stuff it can do, here's something else called adrt, here's something else even faster called rayforce, here's the tradeoffs when you deal with raytracing and analyses, here are some pretty pictures and graphs, etc |
| 21:16.16 | ``Erik | but converting it to cocoa would probably be a major hassle |
| 21:16.33 | brlcad | nothing wrong with carbon |
| 21:16.54 | ``Erik | well, klugy c++ pushing it, and I don't know it and have no references on it |
| 21:16.56 | brlcad | it's the way to go if you want to control the run loop tightly |
| 21:17.37 | ``Erik | heh, the part that needs control is gui free in a thread, the gui just requests it do t hings by putting events in its queue... |
| 21:18.24 | ``Erik | which is good, I like that, that's how I tend to design guis for things where performance is a concern |
| 21:18.54 | ``Erik | so I think the gui COULD be awfully loose, cocoa would make it cleaner and easier for me :/ |
| 21:31.44 | ``Erik | bahhhh |
| 22:29.21 | Maloeran | Nice brlcad, I'm glad to hear it! |
| 22:30.22 | Maloeran | I wouldn't have expected this kind of visual demonstration to be of any interest to non-technical persons, it's so far beyond gpu rasterization in eye-candyness |
| 22:33.28 | Maloeran | far behind* :) |
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| 22:40.29 | brlcad | Maloeran: I can usually put a pretty good spin during a presentation, put things into terms that non-technical people understand |
| 22:41.02 | brlcad | get them impressed, perhaps even excited |
| 22:41.19 | brlcad | depends on the material, prep, and context of course ;) |
| 22:41.46 | Maloeran | *nods* Great, I can't do that :). Even Mark struggled to understand my overview of the raytracer techniques |
| 22:42.54 | Twingy | if you can get people excited then viagra might try to buy you out |
| 22:44.50 | brlcad | and'd I'd sell |
| 22:45.21 | brlcad | cash out early |
| 22:45.32 | Twingy | cash out while you're still up? *grin* |
| 22:46.18 | Twingy | mal, who do you report to at survice now? |
| 22:47.24 | Maloeran | Still Mark but he's supposed to move to Patuxent River ( or something like that ) soon, to be replaced by... Tony Krauss I remember that correctly |
| 22:47.35 | Maloeran | +if I remember |
| 22:49.12 | Maloeran | Out of curiosity, do you know this Tony? |
| 22:51.48 | Twingy | I know a Tony the Tiger, but I dunno a Krauss |
| 22:55.00 | Maloeran | Oh, might be the same one then. Any updates on Lee's potential leave? |
| 22:56.45 | Twingy | you're asking me? hehe |
| 03:08.05 | Maloeran | Erik or anyone else : is there a portable solution for detecting the size of pointers at preprocessor time? I'm not sure __WORDSIZE is really portable |
| 03:25.24 | brlcad | Maloeran: I'm not aware of a truely portable means to do that |
| 03:26.15 | brlcad | probably the closest that comes to mind would be some hack-trick of defining some internal struct with a pointer in it and using the offsetof() macro |
| 03:45.16 | Maloeran | I need to know at preprocessor time, sizeof() and offsetof() are not available then |
| 03:45.54 | Maloeran | If there's no standard cpp macro available, the only thing I can think of is sticking some test in configure.ac to dump the result in config.h and use that |
| 03:46.20 | brlcad | offsetof is a preprocessor macro |
| 03:46.51 | brlcad | though it probably still won't evaluate to something like a numeral .. hmm |
| 03:48.16 | Maloeran | I just need to know if I'm dealing with 32 or 64 bits pointers at compile time when doing some messy SSE operations on pointers |
| 03:49.19 | Twingy | write a little test program that returns the size |
| 03:49.38 | Twingy | return sizeof(ptr_t); |
| 03:50.14 | Twingy | put the test in configure.ac |
| 03:50.28 | Twingy | either way you gotta do it |
| 03:51.04 | brlcad | ooh, for *that* |
| 03:51.19 | brlcad | yeah, just make a little program .. that gets shoved into the configure script rather trivially |
| 03:51.25 | brlcad | then you have your symbol |
| 03:51.40 | brlcad | for that matter, there are predefined autoconf macros to do exactly that for you already |
| 03:51.40 | Twingy | why not use the HAVE_64bits |
| 03:52.04 | Twingy | AC_LONG_64_BITS |
| 03:52.08 | brlcad | # figure out what size pointers the compiler is actually generating |
| 03:52.09 | brlcad | AC_CHECK_SIZEOF(int) |
| 03:52.09 | brlcad | AC_CHECK_SIZEOF(long) |
| 03:52.09 | brlcad | AC_CHECK_SIZEOF(long long) |
| 03:52.09 | brlcad | AC_CHECK_SIZEOF(void *, 4) |
| 03:52.18 | Twingy | AC_LONG_64_BITS is shorter :) |
| 03:52.32 | Maloeran | I just put these things in configure.ac? |
| 03:52.33 | brlcad | that just checks if longs are 64 bits |
| 03:52.43 | brlcad | depends what it is exactly that you want to know |
| 03:52.59 | Maloeran | I want to know the size of pointers, integer data types are already all defined in limits.h |
| 03:53.04 | Twingy | all depends on what OS/Arch you're supporting |
| 03:53.19 | brlcad | then probably just that last one, using void * or char * etc |
| 03:53.30 | brlcad | it'll give you a preprocessor symbol for the result |
| 03:54.04 | Twingy | I haven't setup a mail server since before I joined ARL |
| 03:54.20 | Twingy | doing postfix + imap + dns + web + roundcube is making me type too much |
| 03:55.20 | Maloeran | Neat, thanks. I got my SIZEOF_VOID_P symbol |
| 03:56.50 | Twingy | I've almost saved a bulgogi lunch worth of energy |
| 03:57.08 | Twingy | in terms of cost |
| 03:57.36 | Twingy | 1 bulgogi lunch buys you 50kWh of electricity, heh |
| 03:58.55 | Maloeran | Yes, that's a much more standard unit |
| 03:59.28 | Twingy | ramen is a good one |
| 03:59.36 | Twingy | I might have to do kiloramen though |
| 03:59.41 | Twingy | otherwise the number gets too big |
| 04:02.06 | Twingy | 794 960 joules |
| 04:03.00 | Twingy | 4.5285 ramen per kilowatt hour |
| 04:03.09 | Twingy | a hair more than a twinkie |
| 04:04.14 | Twingy | my roof reminds of the space race in civilization |
| 04:04.15 | brlcad | how much are you using for ramen cost? |
| 04:04.26 | Twingy | 190 calories = 4.5285 kWh |
| 04:05.29 | Twingy | the inverse of that rather |
| 04:05.54 | Twingy | humans require 2.0 - 2.3 kWh a day to live |
| 04:11.22 | brlcad | erm DRA is 2000 calories average, most eat 3k .. i think i average about 4k with the workouts |
| 04:16.29 | Twingy | I try to stay around 2000 with a 2 mile run every other day |
| 04:16.49 | brlcad | that's a pretty sure way to lose weight |
| 04:17.55 | brlcad | probably burning about 200-500 for the immediate run, plus a few hundred more residual through the day |
| 04:18.33 | Twingy | I run after work |
| 04:18.43 | Twingy | which makes it difficult |
| 04:19.07 | Twingy | been doing this for the last 3 years or so |
| 04:19.53 | Twingy | hrm |
| 04:19.59 | Twingy | imap is not letting me log in |
| 04:20.23 | Twingy | problem to solve tomorrow, bed time |
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| 15:15.05 | Maloeran | It's really hard to believe no one taught compilers how to manage registers properly yet |
| 15:15.27 | clock_ | Maloeran: that's the theory of register allocation |
| 15:15.48 | clock_ | You make a variable lifetime analysis |
| 15:16.31 | clock_ | and then colour the DAG with the same number of colours as you have registers |
| 15:18.02 | Maloeran | That's some nice theory, all the implementations are terribly broken in practice |
| 15:18.28 | clock_ | you mean like gcc producing |
| 15:18.30 | clock_ | mov ax,cx |
| 15:18.32 | clock_ | mov ax,bx |
| 15:18.33 | clock_ | ? |
| 15:19.11 | Maloeran | The list of horrors goes on and on... Typical non-sense : Load A into xmm0, load B into xmm1, move xmm0 to xmm2, load C into xmm0 |
| 15:19.48 | clock_ | It could have loaded A right into xmm2, right? |
| 15:20.08 | clock_ | Maloeran: but then the alrogithm is wrong |
| 15:20.22 | clock_ | it should have figured out it's a single variable and give it a single register |
| 15:20.27 | clock_ | and not smear it all around |
| 15:21.04 | Maloeran | These are not even "variables", just internal temporaries |
| 15:21.34 | clock_ | well, it then needs internal temporary dependence graph colouring :) |
| 15:21.49 | Maloeran | It's really a mess, and it's saturated of such inefficient use of registers |
| 15:22.03 | clock_ | it's easier for the ivory tower kooks from gcc when they live in an illusion they are good than if they actually did something that is really good |
| 15:23.51 | Maloeran | Last time I quickly rewrote a big chunk of code in assembly, it was 30% faster just because of the half-decent register management |
| 15:23.51 | clock_ | Maloeran: tell them about the problem - and they will ignore you. Insist on solution of the problem - they will mark you as their enemy |
| 15:24.11 | Maloeran | GCC has got to understand that the variables in inner loops are _more_ important, and to keep the good stuff in registers instead of hitting the stack constantly |
| 15:24.25 | clock_ | Maloeran: yes but everyone will tell you that today it doesn't pay off to write assembly code because today's compilers produce better code than a human assembly writer |
| 15:24.41 | Maloeran | I heard that many times, compilers are pathetic |
| 15:25.02 | clock_ | Maloeran: mov ax, cx mov ax, bx should have ben caught at least by the peephole optimization! |
| 15:25.12 | clock_ | But this shows that even such a trivial peephole is not programmed in |
| 15:25.19 | clock_ | mov r1, r2 |
| 15:25.24 | clock_ | mov r1, r3 translates into |
| 15:25.27 | clock_ | mov r1, r3 |
| 15:25.57 | clock_ | Maloeran: but there are worse problems in the world than bad compiler output |
| 15:25.59 | Maloeran | It goes that frequently when trying to shift by a variable count of bits, value must be in %rcx |
| 15:26.01 | clock_ | for example a lack of sex |
| 15:26.13 | Maloeran | But it will never load the value in that register directly, just move it around |
| 15:26.47 | clock_ | Maloeran: why do you care? What kind of code do you write that you need speed? |
| 15:26.58 | Maloeran | High-performance ray-tracing code ;) |
| 15:27.04 | clock_ | BRL-CAD? |
| 15:27.13 | Maloeran | Yes, the next raytracer of BRL-CAD |
| 15:27.23 | clock_ | are you paid for that? |
| 15:27.26 | Maloeran | Sure |
| 15:27.34 | clock_ | I want to be paid for such things :) |
| 15:28.07 | Maloeran | :) These are interesting problems to play with, it's great to be able to do that full-time |
| 15:28.22 | clock_ | Maloeran: I can do fast programs even without assembly |
| 15:28.42 | clock_ | Maloeran: for example run the Links browser. Display some big fat JPEG so that it is rescaled in the process. |
| 15:29.19 | clock_ | Then relax and realize that the rescaling is performed in linear photometric space with 48bits per pixel and there is gamma correction and dithering applied after, even on 24bpp display |
| 15:29.27 | clock_ | And it's not even in assembly. |
| 15:29.40 | clock_ | But people tend to say my dither.c is hard to understand |
| 15:29.41 | Maloeran | Using mmx there? |
| 15:29.45 | clock_ | no mmx |
| 15:29.49 | clock_ | just ordinary C compiler output |
| 15:30.14 | Maloeran | Nice, though the problem is rather simple |
| 15:30.23 | clock_ | Maloeran: I realized Linux people don't like self-modifying code |
| 15:30.33 | clock_ | so I found out how to work around this limitation |
| 15:30.53 | clock_ | I generate a separate routine for every memory organization using a #define template :) |
| 15:30.56 | Maloeran | Processors generally don't like it much, but it's worth it if you modify once and execute million times |
| 15:31.16 | Maloeran | Would you have an amd64 opcode emitter at hand? |
| 15:31.25 | clock_ | Well - all the linux folks reached with their anti-self-modifying-code stance is that the code has to be bigger |
| 15:31.30 | clock_ | but is as fast :) |
| 15:31.46 | clock_ | what is an opcode emitter? |
| 15:32.07 | Maloeran | To be able to generate binary encoding of instructions at runtime from code, to be able to run it |
| 15:32.52 | clock_ | you mean to link an assembler into the program and then the program compiles parts of itself on the fly? |
| 15:33.09 | Maloeran | More or less, the program generates optimized pipelines for the task at hand and executes them |
| 15:33.09 | clock_ | I don't have amd64 assembler at hand. |
| 15:33.43 | clock_ | Maloeran: what computer did you start with? |
| 15:33.58 | Maloeran | I would prefer to do that instead of fixed assembly pipelines, once I get too tired of compiler incompetence |
| 15:34.14 | Maloeran | I begun coding on a 486 |
| 15:34.36 | clock_ | I began basically with assembly on ZX Spectrum when I was 13. |
| 15:34.44 | Maloeran | Trying to do fancy graphics on the thing, 2d and 3d, I learned assembly back then |
| 15:34.58 | clock_ | I did fancy graphics too |
| 15:35.05 | Maloeran | Eheh nice. I was 12-13 as well |
| 15:35.13 | clock_ | for example I wrote a doom engine where there was a bathroom where there was 10 cm of blood on the floor |
| 15:35.28 | clock_ | when you walked there, it did real waves and circles like on water which reflected off the walls |
| 15:35.55 | Maloeran | Impressive, I struggled for a while to understand the basics of 3d rendering back then, quaternions especially |
| 15:35.56 | clock_ | and when you killed an enemy, blood sprayed around the screen and then the drops slowly moved down |
| 15:36.59 | Maloeran | Doing any work on or related to BRL-CAD lately? |
| 15:37.09 | clock_ | no but I would like to |
| 15:37.18 | clock_ | now I work as a C/ASM programmer on an embedded 186 platform |
| 15:37.31 | Maloeran | Eheh, neat |
| 15:37.57 | clock_ | but we are using Borland C compiler where the optimizations don't work at all even if there are flags for it. I find this compiler a big turnoff |
| 15:38.01 | clock_ | It's buggy too |
| 15:38.06 | clock_ | and it's a fossil. |
| 15:38.25 | clock_ | and the CPU is buggy |
| 15:38.51 | Maloeran | What are the chips used for? |
| 15:38.59 | clock_ | for a MP3 player |
| 15:39.05 | clock_ | or Internet radio |
| 15:41.18 | clock_ | Maloeran: that's normal with today's products |
| 15:41.41 | clock_ | Maloeran: if it happens more than once in 5 minutes it's suspicious, but 1 per day is normal today |
| 15:42.29 | clock_ | unfortunately. |
| 15:43.10 | Maloeran | Microsoft really managed to get the masses used to deal with crappy software |
| 15:44.13 | Maloeran | Another "detail" : GCC never understood that movlps only takes 2 cycles instead of the 3 cycles of movss on amd64/Opterons for the same result in most cases |
| 15:44.24 | clock_ | Maloeran: I have two penguin plush dolls, one 60cm high, another 15cm high |
| 15:44.43 | Maloeran | movss for memory load that is |
| 15:45.29 | clock_ | Maloeran: you can't really expect me to understand movlps by heart when I am working on a 186 platform and the last time I wrote assembly for fun, the latest processor was Pentium |
| 15:47.07 | Maloeran | Eheh, sorry. In a context of scalar operations, movlps loads 64 bits from memory into xmm register and leaves the upper 64 bits untouched, movss loads 32 bits from memory and clears the upper 96 bits to zero |
| 15:47.54 | Maloeran | Especially when the load is followed by a shuffle to replicate the float 4 times in the register, as it's often the case |
| 15:49.07 | clock_ | does it calculate correctly? |
| 15:49.13 | clock_ | Or does it divide like Pentium? |
| 15:49.49 | Maloeran | Sure it's correct, and they fixed most of the "rounding mode" and denormals mess |
| 15:50.12 | clock_ | wow! |
| 15:50.19 | clock_ | Correct floating point implementation! |
| 15:50.23 | Maloeran | The instruction set it still a mess and the instruction encoding is atrociously long because all the short opcodes are used for legacy 8086 |
| 15:50.33 | clock_ | Like I worked with some arm920t from Cirrus Logic and they had crappy FPU |
| 15:50.40 | clock_ | sometimes it produced opposite sign etc. :) |
| 15:50.46 | Maloeran | Woohoo :) |
| 15:51.08 | clock_ | sometimes you had to wait a bit so it wouldn't make mistake etc. :) |
| 15:51.14 | Maloeran | It's nowhere near the elegancy and efficiency of Altivec, but... it's usable, unlike mmx |
| 15:51.23 | clock_ | what is altivec? |
| 15:51.54 | Maloeran | Apple's SIMD instructions on their IBM processors, G3/G4/G5 |
| 15:52.05 | clock_ | it was crappy, but it had a bold-sounding name MaverickCrunch(TM) |
| 15:52.20 | clock_ | You now today it doesn't matter if it works right or wrong - all that matters is the marketing. |
| 15:52.53 | clock_ | If your engineers cannot fix it, one addition (TM) will do. |
| 15:52.57 | Maloeran | That's mostly true, unfortunately |
| 15:53.08 | clock_ | And that's also why I am doing http://ronja.twibright.com |
| 15:53.16 | clock_ | and why I bought an old 8-bit computer yesterday. |
| 15:53.25 | clock_ | I want to have at least one BugFree(TM) computer at home |
| 15:53.35 | clock_ | It's the same model I had as a kid. |
| 15:54.58 | Maloeran | Sounds nice. I grew up with a 486 and a Pentium 133 |
| 15:55.20 | clock_ | You never rode a healthy silicon horse :) |
| 15:55.43 | clock_ | healthy pony better than a sick stallion |
| 15:57.35 | clock_ | But Frederico Faggini was at least able to do it right on the first try |
| 15:57.38 | Maloeran | The stallion doesn't run straight and occasionally crashes in stuff on the way, but it's still better |
| 15:58.08 | Maloeran | Not a name I'm familiar with, not finding much on google |
| 16:00.42 | clock_ | THe guy who designed Z80 |
| 16:03.37 | archivist | Z80 was slow |
| 16:04.49 | clock_ | yes Pentium 4 @ 3GHz is faster |
| 16:04.54 | archivist | 2meg 65C02 is da man in those days |
| 16:05.04 | clock_ | 6502 was buggy |
| 16:06.01 | clock_ | omg the old discussion what was better, whether a buggy 6502 virtually without registers that took little cycles per instruction or BugFree(TM) Z80 with tons of registers that took at least 4 ticks per inisn |
| 16:06.26 | clock_ | "and Z80 didn't have the CRS instruction!" |
| 16:06.40 | clock_ | CRS = CRash System |
| 16:27.42 | brlcad | yay, ponies |
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| 23:10.35 | ``Erik | o.O |
| 23:19.06 | ``Erik | /nick quanzaclause |
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| 11:05.47 | *** join/#brlcad jpjacobs (n=jpjacobs@dib.ulyssis.student.kuleuven.be) | |
| 11:06.41 | jpjacobs | Hi, i made a debian package for brlcad. I have to say, i don't know anything about making packages, the dependancies are not set since i don't know how. |
| 11:07.47 | jpjacobs | but if anyone is interested anyway, i can upload it. (btw i also made a terminal-wrapper thing that sets the path's right, and should also modify ls-outputhiglighting (but that doesn't really work)) |
| 11:08.17 | brlcad | to the debian package tracker or elsewhere? |
| 11:08.27 | brlcad | i believe there is a rfp in for one |
| 11:09.09 | brlcad | otherwise, you can upload it to our anon ftp and I can post it to sf.net |
| 11:09.27 | brlcad | ftp.brlcad.org/incoming |
| 11:10.12 | jpjacobs | so it's ok that it's lacking dependancy info, and the brlterm thing isn't 10O% functional? |
| 11:10.40 | clock_ | tell me why when I stream there is no reply |
| 11:11.51 | jpjacobs | or anybody knows how i add the dependancies , and anyone want to look at the script? |
| 11:12.18 | brlcad | brlterm thing? |
| 11:12.33 | brlcad | clock_: when you stream where/to what? |
| 11:12.46 | clock_ | I am making jokes out of Roxette |
| 11:12.55 | clock_ | tell me why when I scream there is no reply |
| 11:13.03 | brlcad | jpjacobs: alas, I'm only passively familiar with the debian packages.. enough to put them together when I have to but not enough to properly review one |
| 11:13.20 | brlcad | clock_: ahh |
| 11:13.33 | clock_ | brlcad: I am thinking about making a complete model of Ronja in BRL-CAD |
| 11:13.34 | jpjacobs | Well, that's what i called the wrapper-script. It basically sets the right paths, and modifys LSCOLORS to contain entries for *.g and *.pix |
| 11:13.37 | clock_ | including the lens, heel, etc. |
| 11:13.54 | brlcad | jpjacobs: ah, okay |
| 11:13.56 | clock_ | I tried a lens in brl-cad and it really behaves like a lens. It even focuses the light of the light sources |
| 11:14.11 | brlcad | clock_: that would be awesome |
| 11:14.31 | brlcad | inclusion-worthy even with the right polish |
| 11:14.34 | clock_ | brlcad: can I put a point light source into the place of LED and it would make a circle of light on a wall? |
| 11:15.45 | brlcad | there's a way to add directional lights, and you can always direct an omnidirectional light by modeling the light bulb itself (e.g. putting a lightsource into a hollowed out cylinder) |
| 11:17.16 | clock_ | brlcad: I welded a truss holder and realized it can play spooky melodies |
| 11:17.26 | clock_ | http://ronja.twibright.com/audio/tetrax10.ogg |
| 11:18.18 | brlcad | heh |
| 11:18.18 | clock_ | and even made a Ronja ringtone out of it |
| 11:18.22 | clock_ | http://ronja.twibright.com/audio/ronja_rt.wav |
| 11:18.25 | clock_ | http://ronja.twibright.com/audio/ronja_rt.mp3 |
| 11:24.22 | brlcad | nice, pleasant even |
| 11:27.08 | clock_ | sounds to me like the background from the nightmare in elm street |
| 11:27.10 | jpjacobs | the .deb is uploading |
| 11:27.29 | clock_ | brlcad: but BRL-CAD cannot calculate how it's gonna sound, right? |
| 11:27.47 | clock_ | only how it's gonna look |
| 11:29.20 | brlcad | you'd have to write a sound simulation |
| 11:29.44 | brlcad | it can do the wave propagation using the multispectral library |
| 11:29.58 | jpjacobs | it's there |
| 11:30.05 | brlcad | but it would still require a lot of good simulation code to properly drive an acoustic simulation |
| 11:30.10 | brlcad | jpjacobs: okay |
| 11:30.36 | clock_ | what is wave propagation and multispectral library? |
| 11:30.37 | brlcad | jpjacobs: thanks! .. it'll be a couple days before it can be processed given the holiday |
| 11:31.25 | jpjacobs | np... if anyone has any tips on how to make it better, please contact me |
| 11:31.28 | brlcad | clock_: to calculate "how it's gonna sound" requires simulating sound waves, which is not unlike a light simulation that the ray-tracers perform where light waves are propagated |
| 11:31.51 | clock_ | brlcad: interesting |
| 11:32.20 | brlcad | jpjacobs: can I get a real name to properly credit the contribution? |
| 11:33.09 | brlcad | clock_: there's a multispectral simulation library in brl-cad for simulating different ranges of energies other than the visible light spectrum that liboptical simulates .. sound would qualify as a different spectrum ;) |
| 11:33.25 | jpjacobs | Jan-Pieter Jacobs. |
| 11:33.45 | brlcad | thx |
| 11:34.01 | jpjacobs | np |
| 11:34.13 | clock_ | brlcad: can it simulate microwave signature of F117? |
| 11:35.46 | brlcad | yep |
| 11:36.28 | brlcad | that's sort of the kinds of multispectral simulations it was designed for |
| 11:37.58 | clock_ | brlcad: the problem of the lens is that it has to be done as an intersection of two huge balls |
| 11:38.14 | clock_ | it's 13cm in diameter but the surface has curvature radius like 1m or so |
| 11:38.26 | clock_ | this causes a lot of discarded calculations, doesn't? |
| 11:39.03 | brlcad | spheres/ellipsoids are *the* fastest objects to evaluate, but yes, mildly discarded for parts |
| 11:39.21 | brlcad | not something I'd worry about to say the least |
| 11:39.31 | clock_ | can I speed it up to put it into a box and intersect with the box? |
| 11:39.59 | brlcad | that wouldn't speed it up |
| 11:40.06 | brlcad | two spheres will be way faster |
| 11:40.12 | clock_ | brlcad: can I use it to simulate optical systems? |
| 11:40.21 | brlcad | you can use an elliptical parabaloid, though |
| 11:40.23 | clock_ | Like 2 lens and tune it in BRL-CAD and only after try in reality? |
| 11:40.31 | brlcad | or a hyperboloid if that helps |
| 11:40.48 | clock_ | brlcad: no the lens has spherical surface, I can't use paraboloid or hyperboloid. |
| 11:40.51 | brlcad | http://ftp.brlcad.org/tmp/primitives/Primitives3_grouped_labels.png ehy and epa on the left |
| 11:41.23 | brlcad | you should be able to make a paraboloid that matches with the right parameters, no? |
| 11:41.50 | brlcad | or just stick with spheres, they're still more simple |
| 11:41.54 | clock_ | brlcad: can I make rotational paraboloid? |
| 11:42.04 | brlcad | rotational? |
| 11:42.15 | clock_ | brlcad: I mean like a parabolic mirror |
| 11:42.27 | clock_ | is it a special case of epa? |
| 11:42.42 | clock_ | like a mirror in flashlight |
| 11:43.16 | brlcad | two epa's one subtracting from the inside of the other |
| 11:43.33 | brlcad | offset is your mirror thickness |
| 11:44.12 | clock_ | aha I thought epa is that it cuts into a parabolic in one axis and ellipsis in the other |
| 11:44.42 | clock_ | too bad I have little time |
| 11:44.51 | clock_ | it will take long until I draw the whole Ronja in BRL-CAD :( |
| 11:45.05 | clock_ | and potatoid is possible too? :) |
| 11:45.27 | brlcad | now with bigger chunks! |
| 11:45.53 | clock_ | brlcad: the sketch does it mean I can make 2D blueprints like in Qcad? |
| 11:46.00 | clock_ | with dimensions etc.? |
| 11:49.16 | brlcad | it'll make the shapes, but not with dimensions like you're probably thinking |
| 11:49.49 | brlcad | it's rather basic 2D editing frankly, not recommended for anything except basic shapes for extrusion |
| 11:50.34 | brlcad | someone was looking into actually invoking qcad for the sketch editor and doing a transparent passthrough between the two apps but they didn't finish afaik |
| 11:50.44 | clock_ | can the sketch import DXF drawing? |
| 11:51.12 | brlcad | hmm |
| 11:51.59 | brlcad | not easily, technically, it'd be a pretty trivial modification to make but currently the dxf importer brings drawings in as 2D wireframe objects |
| 11:53.38 | clock_ | what can I do with 2D wireframe objects? |
| 11:56.35 | brlcad | view them |
| 11:57.04 | brlcad | support for 2D stuff in general is entirely lacking if you hadn't noticed.. we're solid modeling, not drafting |
| 11:57.29 | brlcad | the fact that it even lets you bring them in is a little "insulting" |
| 12:00.50 | clock_ | imagine the following task |
| 12:01.02 | clock_ | you want to make a hole in a steel plate 20cm in diameter |
| 12:01.11 | clock_ | but you only have 6mm drill. |
| 12:01.31 | clock_ | in qcad I draw a 20cm circle and then draw 6mm circles one always in the previous intersection |
| 12:01.38 | clock_ | that takes me like 2 minutes. |
| 12:01.47 | clock_ | I can't imagine how to do this in BRL-CAD |
| 12:02.57 | brlcad | because that's a rather 2d-centric task to start with perhaps, at least you have a 2d solution in mind |
| 12:03.10 | brlcad | for solid modeling, there is no such direct translation, you work entirely in 3d |
| 12:03.21 | brlcad | so you'd make cynlinders instead of circles |
| 12:03.30 | brlcad | but otherwise, not much different |
| 12:03.50 | brlcad | and it'd take me like 2 minutes for that particular thing too |
| 12:04.40 | clock_ | but they wouldn't touch precisely, would they? |
| 12:04.49 | brlcad | what wouldn't? |
| 12:05.31 | brlcad | the cylinders? sure, why not? they'll be whatever you make them be numerically |
| 12:06.01 | brlcad | no more or less aligned than specifying circles |
| 12:06.19 | brlcad | the only difference there is 2d description vs a 3d one |
| 13:25.02 | clock_ | brlcad: you would have to calculate the parameters of the cylinders externally |
| 13:25.14 | clock_ | you would have to write a program for that. That's not in 2 minutes. |
| 15:28.04 | Maloeran | Hiding in one's natural environment : http://xs309.xs.to/xs309/06474/DSCF0001.jpg |
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| 15:26.59 | elite01 | hi - is brlcad easy to get into? |
| 15:29.47 | clock_ | yes |
| 15:30.13 | elite01 | and how long does it take to build? (pentium 4 at 3.4GHz) |
| 15:30.14 | clock_ | there is a howto for starters |
| 15:30.19 | clock_ | not much long |
| 15:30.19 | Maloeran | I think that depends what you are used to |
| 15:30.22 | clock_ | like ordinary program |
| 15:30.34 | elite01 | nice, thanks |
| 15:39.11 | clock_ | elite01: brl-cad is no problem to use. It's not like the modern bloatware with million dependencies on widget toolkits, java, xml parsers etc. |
| 15:39.24 | clock_ | and if you don't have the secret magical combination of version numbers it explodes |
| 15:39.34 | clock_ | you just download brl-cad, compile, install here you go |
| 15:40.13 | elite01 | yes just did make install |
| 15:40.22 | elite01 | (well it's *still* running) |
| 15:48.51 | elite01 | can one also model/simulate lenses and other optical stuff? |
| 15:48.59 | clock_ | elite01: yes |
| 15:49.03 | elite01 | very nice :) |
| 15:49.08 | clock_ | elite01: I tried and it worked |
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| 17:10.38 | elite01 | in mged - i hat b and now stuff is spinning... how do i fix that? :) |
| 17:12.01 | elite01 | ah got it |
| 17:17.43 | clock_ | elite01: stop smoking the weed |
| 17:17.55 | clock_ | elite01: then the stuff will stop spinning |
| 17:18.49 | elite01 | hehe :) |
| 17:48.43 | elite01 | now, i've got a small object which i can't see even if i zoom in - but the raytracer draws it |
| 17:50.03 | clock_ | elite01: try to turn off z clipping |
| 17:52.54 | elite01 | still not showing up |
| 18:04.22 | clock_ | try restarting BRL-CAD |
| 18:04.34 | clock_ | if that doesn't help, restart your PC |
| 18:21.13 | elite01 | now, soudns like a windows trick, that one :) |
| 18:22.37 | elite01 | still, restarting brl-cad did the trick - well nearly... i can see half of the cube |
| 18:52.30 | ``Erik | 'half'? |
| 18:53.18 | ``Erik | and jerkcity is awesome :D very twisted |
| 18:53.36 | ``Erik | http://jerkcity.com/jerkcity8.html |
| 18:53.49 | ``Erik | http://jerkcity.com/jerkcity5.html |
| 18:53.51 | ``Erik | brilliant :D |
| 18:56.15 | ``Erik | damnit |
| 18:56.42 | ``Erik | alias sl=ls |
| 18:56.43 | ``Erik | o.O |
| 19:02.11 | Maloeran | I _really_ don't get the humor, ``Erik :), I tried to understand |
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| 19:26.57 | Maloeran | Oh, that one actually makes sense : http://www.jerkcity.com/jerkcity1110.html |
| 19:41.51 | Maloeran | This is horrible. Litvinenko was found to be poisoned with ingested radioactive plutonium, yet Putin claims there's no evidence his death was unnatural, and main russian medias still haven't said a word on the matter |
| 19:43.14 | Maloeran | I didn't realize Russia's socio-political climate was so... sick |
| 21:17.49 | ``Erik | ls |
| 21:58.09 | ``Erik | heh |
| 21:58.14 | ``Erik | rm -rf archivist |
| 21:58.15 | ``Erik | :D |
| 21:58.46 | archivist | my bot pretends to lose its data with rm -rf |
| 21:59.30 | archivist | its playing with the users |
| 22:00.17 | ``Erik | heh, make it roundrobin kb with the kick message "I DON'T KNOW YOU!" |
| 22:00.18 | ``Erik | :D |
| 22:00.44 | ``Erik | (and everyone gets to laugh when it kickbans itself, heh) |
| 22:00.45 | ``Erik | :D |
| 22:01.04 | archivist | kickban not implemented |
| 22:01.24 | archivist | mainly used for man pages and factoids |
| 22:01.55 | archivist | but with the right factoids one can fool a few users |
| 22:04.41 | ``Erik | <-- prefers seeting up webpages for that to avoid channel clutter |
| 22:04.47 | ``Erik | I like my bots as silent as possible |
| 22:05.38 | ``Erik | http://math.missouristate.edu/opengl/faq.php is one o fthe pages I made for a chanenl (I wrote the php/sql and a program to snarf the original file, the content is mostly brink and roads) |
| 22:07.51 | archivist | my fun for the mysql bot was writing the xml reader |
| 22:13.19 | ``Erik | didn't use a lib? |
| 22:16.41 | archivist | did it using php, the xml has display crap I have to ignore mixed in, just picking titles, paragraph headings and index terms |
| 22:17.03 | archivist | it uses the xml parser that php has |
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| 02:09.56 | ``Erik | (does it sound like it's eating frames to anyone else?) |
| 02:09.59 | ``Erik | oops |
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| 15:47.35 | brlcad | elite01: did you ever get the problems figured out? |
| 15:48.02 | brlcad | turning off zclipping on the misc menu sounds like one likely issue you were running into as well as perhaps an enabled framebuffer |
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| 17:25.27 | elite01 | brlcad, i had the framebuffer disabled |
| 17:26.08 | elite01 | think it was z-clipping or z-buffer |
| 18:32.13 | elite01 | ok, thinks like the framebuffer was enabled - and when z-buffer is also enabled, it's broken |
| 18:32.52 | elite01 | well, need to go - see you |
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| 14:50.43 | ``Erik | http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EvjdzfV2iFQ |
| 14:58.41 | Maloeran | Still no support from youtube for non-flash platforms and people, meh |
| 14:59.55 | brlcad | heh, quite a disjoint defensive talker there |
| 15:01.34 | ``Erik | it'd be rough for ya anyways, mal... norweigan with fairly literal (or poorly done) english subtitles |
| 15:09.09 | Maloeran | Do you know any GCC intrinsics or pthread-level mechanisms to expose 'lock cmpxchg' or 'lock xadd' instructions? Of course that wouldn't be portable, but much faster than mutexes if appropriate and available |
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| 16:40.11 | Maloeran | Oh, cool thing. Erik, are you able to check on some non-ia32/amd64 box what you got in /usr/include/asm/atomic.h ? |
| 16:43.47 | ``Erik | erikg@ti ~$ uname -p ; ls -ld /usr/include/asm |
| 16:43.47 | ``Erik | powerpc |
| 16:43.47 | ``Erik | ls: /usr/include/asm: No such file or directory |
| 16:44.18 | Maloeran | Okay, the stuff is not portable. Thanks |
| 16:46.31 | brlcad | quite.. i think that's linux-only no? |
| 16:48.11 | Maloeran | Probably so, I really don't know much of OSX |
| 16:48.48 | Maloeran | I was wondering if there could be some equivalent functionalities exposed there, even if different |
| 16:49.02 | brlcad | os x provides similar goo in /usr/include/libkern/OSAtomic.h |
| 16:49.08 | brlcad | i think bsd provides something like /usr/include/machine/atomic.h |
| 16:49.52 | Maloeran | Ah I see. Thanks |
| 16:49.53 | ``Erik | erik@fenris /usr/include$ uname -ps ; find . -name atomic.h |
| 16:49.53 | ``Erik | FreeBSD i386 |
| 16:49.53 | ``Erik | ./machine/atomic.h |
| 16:50.27 | brlcad | they are pretty similar -- how to perform various operations atomic, various math ops and get/set ops |
| 16:52.20 | brlcad | if anything, dual boot solaris or something.. that's almost guaranteed to break something usually :) |
| 16:52.32 | brlcad | oozes system V-ness |
| 16:53.41 | brlcad | none of that wacky bsd 4.3 standardification crap ;) |
| 16:53.42 | ``Erik | heh |
| 16:54.00 | ``Erik | does solaris10 have an amd64 variant? |
| 16:54.20 | brlcad | sun ships one, so I'd hope so |
| 16:54.47 | brlcad | but dunno |
| 16:56.11 | Maloeran | Erik, I would be pleased to replace my desktop but any other architecture than amd64 is overpriced for the processing power you get. Trying out Solaris sounds good though |
| 16:58.30 | brlcad | a bsd might get you more bang for the buck as it's easier to get up and running and is at least a little bit different than linux |
| 16:58.43 | brlcad | or both! |
| 17:00.05 | Maloeran | Right, I played with fbsd in the past although I couldn't even manage to install it on the laptop |
| 17:02.01 | Maloeran | It apparently detected the disk geometry wrong, but didn't realize that and tried copying files ( and failing ) until the installation was "complete" *cough* |
| 17:03.25 | ``Erik | I d'no if solaris 10 is really lagging... 8 was a bit archaic, yeah... |
| 17:03.41 | ``Erik | but 10 has a lot of stuff that many others are playing catch-up to |
| 17:03.45 | ``Erik | apparently |
| 17:04.16 | ``Erik | and that problem still boggles me, mal... we didn't get around to trying it when you were here for vis, tho :/ |
| 17:05.18 | brlcad | lagging in userland tools, not the kernel and architecture itself |
| 17:06.27 | ``Erik | hrm |
| 17:06.36 | ``Erik | first thing I tend to do on a sun box is start populating /usr/gnu |
| 17:06.41 | ``Erik | cuz I'm lame |
| 17:06.55 | brlcad | that's cheating :) |
| 17:07.14 | ``Erik | yeah |
| 17:07.15 | ``Erik | I suck |
| 17:07.31 | brlcad | some of their tools are often a better approach.. but they just lack features overall |
| 17:08.27 | ``Erik | heh, they're different |
| 17:08.36 | ``Erik | I was heavy into solaris back at fedex |
| 17:08.46 | ``Erik | but *shrug* before and after, I'm a bsd guy |
| 17:10.16 | brlcad | bsd approach is usually simple and powerful, a little more carefully chosen than the linux kitchen sink approach (as a broad stereotyping statement of course, exeptions to both) |
| 17:11.17 | ``Erik | fbsd has had fits of kluge... but there's been a heavy effort to clean house lately |
| 17:11.29 | ``Erik | like a couple years ago, perl was removed from the base system (yay!) |
| 17:17.15 | brlcad | nifty |
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| 01:52.16 | Maloeran | http://www.cjcc.com/Images/funny%20picts/When%20Your%20SysAdmin%20Is%20Bored.jpg |
| 01:54.26 | ``Erik | nice |
| 01:55.34 | brlcad | hah |
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| 17:09.56 | Maloeran | Cool, there's progress from Survice for the immigration visa demand. Though... From this lengthy paperwork and exchanges with lawyers, I didn't realize it would imply more than a couple thousands in fees for them o.O |
| 17:10.13 | ``Erik | heh |
| 17:10.21 | ``Erik | probably in the neighborhood of 20k used? |
| 17:10.22 | ``Erik | usd |
| 17:10.26 | ``Erik | *shrug* |
| 17:10.40 | clock_ | Who's immigrating into the US? |
| 17:10.56 | Maloeran | No clear idea, but they hired people at 265USD/hour to work on it |
| 17:11.10 | ``Erik | bear in mind... every single cost to them for you... all of everything they're paying, they're making at least twice that much in profit. |
| 17:11.20 | Maloeran | clock_: I am, or at least I think I am. I'm presently working from Canada |
| 17:11.28 | ``Erik | clock: work is work... |
| 17:11.44 | ``Erik | and bush and his ass clowns will be gone in a bit... jan '09, WOOOOOOO!!!! |
| 17:11.53 | clock_ | Is it possible to work on BRL-CAD from Hawaii? |
| 17:12.29 | Maloeran | ``Erik, do you mean that the ARL is covering all these costs? |
| 17:12.33 | ``Erik | you can work on brl-cad from anywhere.. getting paid to work on brl-cad all depends on the vehicle for the work order |
| 17:13.03 | ``Erik | mal: arl is paying a snotload, which probably easily covers all of their expenses, plus they'll have you work on shit they sell to other companies |
| 17:13.35 | ``Erik | trust me, if you weren't giving them a non-neglegible profit, they would not bother with you. They're doing what they're doing to maximize profit. nothing else. |
| 17:14.23 | ``Erik | if you were actually costing them money in the long run, your contract would be gone and someone would probably be fired in the mgmt chain there :) |
| 17:14.41 | ``Erik | business is as business does |
| 17:15.37 | Maloeran | Right, okay. I guess I'll never know how big a piece of the cake Survice is grabbing on the way ;) |
| 17:16.22 | ``Erik | the general rule of thumb in industry is that you see about 1/3 of the billing rate |
| 17:16.22 | brlcad | you really don't want to know that |
| 17:17.11 | ``Erik | and for 'regular' employees, the cost to company is about 2.4x gross salary |
| 17:18.52 | ``Erik | <-- has a perverse interest in the numbers o.O also enjoys things like dan wheelers "sloccount" |
| 17:19.48 | ``Erik | money is a tool |
| 17:19.51 | ``Erik | a very real one |
| 17:19.59 | ``Erik | and I like understanding tools |
| 17:20.12 | ``Erik | programming languages and os's are tools |
| 17:20.33 | ``Erik | brlcad is a tool, but I gave up on understanding him... brlcad is as brlcad does. ;) |
| 17:20.34 | brlcad | I mean as a contractor, it's usually not a good idea to know what your charging rate is.. mutually to you and your company |
| 17:20.36 | Maloeran | I think I vaguely understand economics, but I don't understand the appeal of profit maximization |
| 17:21.00 | ``Erik | public companies have a contractual obligation to maximize profit. |
| 17:21.20 | brlcad | aside from the politics of the rate and fact that it can be daunting to realize how much they take ;) |
| 17:21.35 | ``Erik | short term profit, even. :/ quarterly dividends to stock holders, etc |
| 17:21.44 | brlcad | ~dict tool |
| 17:22.01 | Maloeran | I don't really want to know, brlcad, I just realize it can cover extra expenses. Believe it or not, I was worried for a moment |
| 17:22.20 | brlcad | yeah, it can cover whatever the heck they want it to cover |
| 17:22.23 | brlcad | within legalities |
| 17:22.25 | ``Erik | mal: they will let you know that you have something to worry about well before you have something to worry about |
| 17:22.58 | ``Erik | your interest is coding, they know that... keep coding, and enjoy the creature comforts the paychecks afford you |
| 17:23.07 | ``Erik | and don't worry about the bs |
| 17:23.29 | Maloeran | Okay, sounds like a good deal to me :) |
| 17:24.27 | ``Erik | if they realize you're reasonably competent, you'll be golden as long as you don't do something idiotic |
| 17:24.36 | ``Erik | like smear the ceo's office in feces |
| 17:25.02 | ``Erik | unfortunately, many non-technical people judge technical competency by the degree held... |
| 17:25.15 | ``Erik | so even if you think it's stupid, it *IS* in your best interest to get at least a bs |
| 17:26.05 | ``Erik | (and when you apply to a job... the very first people who see your resume are nontechnical hr people... no degree? it'll never get to the technical people who can recognize skill and ability.) |
| 17:27.05 | Maloeran | I just want to do what I enjoy, and that is coding. If I were unable to keep on doing that for a living, I'll do something else part-time with plenty of free time again |
| 17:27.10 | ``Erik | a friend of mine who worked as a mgr for intel... was trying to get a russian dude into their chip design team... had a bitch of a time fighting with hr because the dude didn't have a degree, even though he was a wizard at ic design and when they got him in, he did awesome things... but no degree, so there was a stigma |
| 17:27.19 | Maloeran | But I really don't think I want to go to school again |
| 17:27.43 | ``Erik | sometimes we have to do a little of what we dont' want to in order to do a lot of what we do want to. :( |
| 17:29.46 | ``Erik | I dropped out of college cuz it was stupid in '95... I dropped back in because I realized that the piece of paper was actually important... |
| 17:29.55 | Maloeran | For what you speak of, Erik, does it take "any bs" or something related to the job? |
| 17:30.01 | ``Erik | I went back KNOWING that I'd learn nothing new, it was just a hoop jumping exercise... |
| 17:30.12 | ``Erik | but I actually learned quite a bit after the first 2 yrs of newbie crap |
| 17:30.13 | Maloeran | I could see myself studying something completely unrelated to programming |
| 17:30.21 | ``Erik | the last 2 yrs were .. engaging |
| 17:30.24 | ``Erik | eye opening :) |
| 17:31.12 | ``Erik | uhmmm, in general, I think "any old bs" will do, but I THINK you'd be surprised at the holes in your knowlege if you did pursue a cs, math, or physics degree |
| 17:31.39 | Maloeran | Oh yes, but that's the fun part :), I want to struggle filling these holes myself, with nothing but a sheet of paper and a pen |
| 17:31.40 | ``Erik | I mean, english or music probably won't advance your mind TOO much in the field of interest |
| 17:31.51 | ``Erik | heh |
| 17:31.56 | Maloeran | A bs in music theory or french poetry could be nice |
| 17:32.02 | ``Erik | you'll still struggle, and there'll be paper and pen... |
| 17:32.16 | ``Erik | but you get the advantage of something saying "here is a hole" |
| 17:32.27 | ``Erik | instead of going through life clumsily working around it because you dont' know it exists |
| 17:33.02 | ``Erik | I d'no, I went into school all cocky and arrogant, I was humbled by dr shade. and I think I'm far better at what I do now because of it |
| 17:33.45 | ``Erik | I want to do grad school, I just hope I can find a professor who can make me feel totally idiotic so I can grow even more :) |
| 17:34.10 | Maloeran | :) Yes, that should be nice. I had... different experiences |
| 17:34.36 | ``Erik | my highschool was a joke, and the first two years of college were laughable. |
| 17:34.54 | Maloeran | The last day I went to college, I had proven my physic teacher wrong with the Hawking book I had at hand and was thrown out of the class ; never went again |
| 17:34.55 | ``Erik | but there'll be a "wheat and chaff" course... mine was csc 324 |
| 17:35.18 | ``Erik | once you hit that point, you're either a cs person, someone struggling to get a grade, or a dropout. |
| 17:35.40 | Maloeran | As I said, I could see myself studying something that interests me yet that I know little about |
| 17:35.48 | Maloeran | Eheh |
| 17:35.55 | ``Erik | I don't think being thrown out of class fofr disproving a teacher would be acceptable at any college around here |
| 17:35.55 | ``Erik | :( |
| 17:36.15 | ``Erik | I mean, I woulda gone to the dean and made my argument |
| 17:36.32 | ``Erik | also; the dude made some good beer ;) |
| 17:36.32 | Maloeran | I was fed up with school enough at that point not to bother |
| 17:36.45 | ``Erik | I THINK he went to be the dean at chico |
| 17:36.55 | Maloeran | Ahah, I see |
| 17:37.14 | ``Erik | even as a hoop jumping exercise, though, it'll make your life a little easier |
| 17:38.12 | Maloeran | A degree in music would be appealing to me, I think |
| 17:38.13 | ``Erik | being a professional developer without a bs is like, uh... coding c... on windows... without knowing anything about the preprocessor... |
| 17:38.15 | ``Erik | :) |
| 17:38.28 | ``Erik | a buddy of mine in college was doing a dual major of cs and music |
| 17:38.31 | ``Erik | *shrug* |
| 17:38.43 | ``Erik | and the lower level cs courses, I tested out of |
| 17:39.09 | ``Erik | I was able to prove that I knew what they wanted to teach me, and they removed teh requirement |
| 17:39.39 | Maloeran | Eheh, nice |
| 17:40.36 | Maloeran | I composed music younger, played violin for a decade and in an orchestra, a bs in music/poetry could be great |
| 17:40.37 | ``Erik | *shrug* I think it's worth doing if you want to code for a living. there'll be a couple years of borign stupid shit. then you might learn something new *shrug* and at the end, life'll be that much easier |
| 17:41.05 | ``Erik | getting someone else to pay for a coder to get a music degree could be tricky ;) |
| 17:41.23 | Maloeran | Oh right, it's costly down there :) |
| 17:41.35 | ``Erik | depends on what school |
| 17:41.54 | ``Erik | I think I was paying ~$2000 a year? I dont' remember anymore |
| 17:42.13 | ``Erik | most of it is covered if you're a "resident" |
| 17:42.19 | Maloeran | Ah, not that bad, close to the fees in Canada then |
| 17:42.29 | ``Erik | I woulda paid more than 3x if I wasn't a state resident |
| 17:42.45 | ``Erik | (whcih means having lived in the state for at least 2 yrs or something) |
| 17:43.01 | ``Erik | then most of it was paid through state taxes |
| 17:43.29 | ``Erik | heh |
| 17:43.35 | ``Erik | or how his predecessor would feel? :) |
| 17:43.53 | Maloeran | :) Eheh |
| 17:49.00 | ``Erik | <-- recently picked up on the observation that most coders are music o.O |
| 17:49.21 | ``Erik | I think I jabbered about it at vis? |
| 17:49.31 | ``Erik | musical |
| 17:49.32 | ``Erik | even |
| 17:49.52 | Maloeran | Not that I recall, you played an instrument or composed? |
| 17:50.03 | Maloeran | Music is highly creative, I don't think programming is that much different |
| 17:50.14 | ``Erik | guitar, trombone and keyboards... and I've written songs on the guitar |
| 17:50.26 | ``Erik | justin plays keyboards... jason plays clarinet |
| 17:50.49 | Maloeran | Neat |
| 17:51.20 | ``Erik | and I was more into electric organ than piano, heh, difference in HOW you hit the keys |
| 17:52.41 | ``Erik | <-- tends ot have a very soft touch when playing music... or typing *shurg* wants a responsive soft instrument |
| 17:52.43 | Maloeran | I should have sticked with piano at school when the time came to choose our instrument that we would play for the next 7 years |
| 17:53.15 | ``Erik | electric guitars playing "lazy/slurred" for the most part... well oiled trombone slide... low resistance keyboard or electric organ |
| 17:53.54 | brlcad | http://www.experts-exchange.com/Web/Q_22031739.html |
| 17:54.11 | ``Erik | keyboards I dig are the c64 inductance kbd, mitsumi precision 'bubble' kbd, and teh apple kbd's... |
| 17:54.20 | ``Erik | can't STAND those ibm clicky monstrosities |
| 17:54.22 | brlcad | pretty sure his wording just sucked .. I would gather he wants repeatable random numbers, i.e. ability to set the seed .. but pretty damn funny regardless ;) |
| 17:54.53 | ``Erik | heh |
| 17:55.40 | ``Erik | REAL repeatable random numbers are nontrivial... given that I can take the see from, say, a linux x86 box to say, an osX ppc box and get a totally different sequence |
| 17:55.57 | Maloeran | I'm not so sure, brlcad, there are people that clueless ;). if( rand() < 0.5*RAND_MAX ) {} if( rand() > 0.5*RAND_MAX ) {} |
| 17:55.58 | ``Erik | but on the same os/arch, srand() is good 'nuff |
| 17:56.14 | ``Erik | hah |
| 17:56.42 | ``Erik | hwer'ed ya see that? |
| 17:56.56 | Maloeran | It was posted in #C some time ago, that code was actually found in a commercial environement |
| 17:57.07 | Maloeran | It was supposed to pick one of the branches "randomly" |
| 17:57.07 | ``Erik | I mean, if there's a 50% chance of A *AND* a 50% of B, then yeah, that might be right |
| 17:57.16 | ``Erik | oh, if that was the intent, yeah, hah :) |
| 17:57.31 | ``Erik | 'else' is hard. |
| 17:58.03 | ``Erik | at least they did 0.5*RANDMAX instead of %2 |
| 17:58.19 | Maloeran | I simplified the code for it to fit on a line, it was actually a mess |
| 17:58.23 | ``Erik | (most rng's have the most significant bits as the most random) |
| 17:58.30 | Maloeran | Some broken conversion to float with comparison with 0.5 |
| 17:58.58 | ``Erik | rand() < 0.5*(float)rand() |
| 17:59.00 | ``Erik | *shrug* |
| 17:59.11 | Maloeran | I'm amazed by the amount of bad programmers, it's worth crying in #C sometimes |
| 17:59.18 | Maloeran | Efnet's #C that is |
| 17:59.37 | ``Erik | remember; half the people you meet are below average. |
| 17:59.54 | Maloeran | Below the median, perhaps not below the average |
| 18:00.12 | ``Erik | and the ones who are able to grok things will look things up and learn themselves some... so you hear from the dumb ones most |
| 18:00.21 | ``Erik | just like politics and fcc 'decency' rap |
| 18:00.22 | Maloeran | Right. |
| 18:00.22 | ``Erik | crap |
| 18:00.27 | ``Erik | ok |
| 18:00.31 | ``Erik | median, not average, you're right |
| 18:00.42 | ``Erik | but I was quoting |
| 18:00.43 | ``Erik | :/ |
| 18:01.30 | Maloeran | :) Okay. I'm especially amazed by how people can struggle to understand pointers |
| 18:01.35 | ``Erik | (because most people don't understand the difference between median and average) |
| 18:01.51 | ``Erik | hehehe, I like pointers |
| 18:03.24 | Maloeran | now* |
| 18:03.38 | Maloeran | Putting high-school or not, that is the question |
| 18:04.09 | ``Erik | hrm |
| 18:04.14 | ``Erik | contact mark |
| 18:04.21 | ``Erik | he'll talk to the lawyers or whatever for you |
| 18:05.00 | Maloeran | Sure, they gave me that form to fill up. Ah well |
| 18:07.14 | ``Erik | (the stigma of no bachelors...) |
| 19:27.39 | *** join/#brlcad docelic (i=docelic@ri02-163.dialin.iskon.hr) | |
| 20:33.41 | *** join/#brlcad docelic (i=docelic@ri01-199.dialin.iskon.hr) | |
| 21:26.35 | *** join/#brlcad docelic (i=docelic@ri02-106.dialin.iskon.hr) | |
| 22:48.46 | brlcad | Maloeran: freenode's #C isn't much different |
| 22:49.48 | brlcad | there's even a resident troll that likes to badger the newbies |
| 22:50.29 | brlcad | at least he was there a couple years ago, he wasn't even that well informed, but moreso than the others that would speak up so he often had the mic on the newbies |
| 22:52.23 | Maloeran | Eheh, I see you have actively participated in such channels too |
| 22:53.32 | brlcad | only mildly, usually through referral |
| 22:54.31 | brlcad | someone would come into a different channel asking basic coding questions, and I'd refer them elsewhere.. only to have them return after being told rather unconstructively how stupid they were by elitist a**holes |
| 22:55.04 | brlcad | so I periodically would wander over to put them in their place, tell them to either help or stfu |
| 22:55.12 | Maloeran | Yes, that's the kind of situation that "forces" me to provide some actual help |
| 22:55.52 | ``Erik | heh |
| 22:55.58 | Maloeran | I apparently have been doing that long enough to get op in #opengl, #c and #asm ; probably not a good sign |
| 22:55.59 | ``Erik | I'm happy to provide C advice |
| 22:56.06 | brlcad | what's a pointer? |
| 22:56.08 | ``Erik | but I mostly focused on specialized channels... like #opengl |
| 22:56.22 | ``Erik | to avoid the straight up newbs |
| 22:56.35 | brlcad | lots of straight up newbs hit bz |
| 22:56.52 | ``Erik | I've been ignoring #opengl for the most part lately :/ |
| 22:56.58 | brlcad | so I refer them if it's not a trivial question or they are just missing too much foundation |
| 22:57.23 | Maloeran | #opengl has been decaying since all the regulars fled to #siggraph because our debates were "off topic" |
| 22:57.28 | brlcad | though I do tutor a couple specific individuals that showed great interest, talent, and progress |
| 22:59.10 | *** join/#brlcad Twingy (n=justin@74.92.144.217) | |
| 22:59.13 | ``Erik | heh |
| 23:05.18 | ``Erik | O:-) |
| 23:06.55 | ``Erik | which is almost the point of stopping and doing something actually useful *cough* |
| 23:09.50 | Twingy | sean, those papers are signed |
| 23:10.37 | Maloeran | Eheh, lacking motivation Erik? I myself wish I still had the motivation I had at 12-16 years old, it weakened a bit |
| 23:10.48 | ``Erik | heh |
| 23:10.55 | ``Erik | I wish i still had the motivation I had at 26. |
| 23:10.57 | ``Erik | :( |
| 23:12.03 | Twingy | what's with you guys :) |
| 23:12.08 | brlcad | Twingy: cool |
| 23:12.28 | brlcad | shame couldn't get public release on them, but meh, it's something |
| 23:13.02 | brlcad | Maloeran: heh, if you're talking like that already.. then you really only have downhill to go :) |
| 23:13.07 | Twingy | I was tempted to pick up the papers and flip through them like a 19th century picture movie |
| 23:13.39 | Maloeran | Aw brlcad :). Seriously, it was not healthy. I was forgetting to eat, to sleep and go to school just to code |
| 23:13.55 | Twingy | the key to motivation is diversity |
| 23:14.21 | Twingy | for me anyway |
| 23:14.23 | ``Erik | diversity only takes ya so far in my experience :/ |
| 23:14.41 | Twingy | depends on what your goals in life are |
| 23:15.07 | Twingy | to become an expert in a field, to become well known, to become utilitarian... |
| 23:15.33 | Maloeran | I still enjoy solving problems just as much. The issue, I think, is that the problems have grown complex and that the solutions take a long while to code up properly |
| 23:15.49 | Twingy | mmm booty |
| 23:15.53 | ``Erik | hhahaha |
| 23:16.14 | ``Erik | dsl's are the art of turning complex problems into simple problems. |
| 23:16.46 | Maloeran | The problems I was solving at 12-16 years old took very little time to code once solved. The current raytracing problems? Gah!! :) |
| 23:17.47 | Maloeran | Erik, what do you mean by dsl there? |
| 23:17.56 | Twingy | damn small linux of course |
| 23:17.57 | ``Erik | domain specific language |
| 23:18.06 | Maloeran | Ah, right |
| 23:18.46 | ``Erik | deep dependancy chains, hard deadlines, and the "probably good enough" minimal ordering |
| 23:20.38 | Twingy | I am displeased with how brakes are engineered for most bikes |
| 23:20.51 | ``Erik | what, the rim calipers? |
| 23:20.56 | Twingy | yea |
| 23:21.02 | Twingy | all they're missing is two springs |
| 23:21.06 | Twingy | two springs!!! |
| 23:21.08 | ``Erik | well |
| 23:21.10 | Twingy | and they'd be 10x better |
| 23:21.11 | ``Erik | do it better |
| 23:21.13 | brlcad | you want hydraulic brakes on your bike? |
| 23:21.15 | ``Erik | and apply for a patent |
| 23:21.21 | ``Erik | and get fucktarded rich |
| 23:21.22 | Twingy | no, I'm going to do that this weekend |
| 23:21.23 | ``Erik | o.O |
| 23:21.25 | Twingy | it'll take 2 minutes |
| 23:21.31 | Twingy | I have my old mountain bike back |
| 23:21.41 | Twingy | the one I used to ride to work at Skyhigh the ISP on in high school |
| 23:21.56 | brlcad | ooh, Hero tonight |
| 23:22.34 | brlcad | or heros or whatever it's called |
| 23:22.38 | brlcad | good stuff |
| 23:22.41 | Twingy | hiros? |
| 23:22.45 | Twingy | food network? |
| 23:22.47 | Twingy | :) |
| 23:22.47 | brlcad | hiro nakamura |
| 23:22.55 | Twingy | hirosushima? |
| 23:23.02 | ``Erik | heh |
| 23:23.03 | brlcad | mm.. sushi |
| 23:23.24 | ``Erik | neko ga tabemasuka? |
| 23:23.28 | Twingy | naggasagonnaworkherenomore |
| 23:23.35 | brlcad | heh |
| 23:23.59 | brlcad | the korean shop has some |
| 23:24.17 | ``Erik | heh |
| 23:24.23 | ``Erik | I might stop there on my drive tomorrie |
| 23:24.29 | ``Erik | you're talking about the one in beards hill, right? |
| 23:24.37 | brlcad | next to kleins |
| 23:25.37 | ``Erik | <-- forgets which big grocery store is in beards hill? knows there's a pizza shop, radiocrap, pet store, lees hunan, home despot, ... |
| 23:25.46 | ``Erik | :) |
| 23:25.51 | Twingy | I bet that pet stores has some of my mice still |
| 23:26.01 | ``Erik | "he knows just how I like my martini... full of alcohol" |
| 23:26.23 | ``Erik | but I did just buy a hugeassed bag of rice :D |
| 23:26.28 | ``Erik | ginormous |
| 23:26.42 | Twingy | making saki? |
| 23:26.46 | Twingy | sake |
| 23:26.46 | ``Erik | heh, no |
| 23:27.06 | ``Erik | bought me up a rice maker |
| 23:27.41 | Twingy | riceroni |
| 23:27.56 | Twingy | if you bought a rice maker |
| 23:27.59 | Twingy | why buy rice? |
| 23:28.04 | Twingy | ooh that reminds me |
| 23:28.09 | Twingy | I need to pick up cans tomorrow |
| 23:28.11 | ``Erik | heh |
| 23:28.24 | Twingy | I can make one out of aluminum |
| 23:29.29 | Twingy | soon I will have enough to begin rocket motor |
| 23:29.46 | Twingy | the diet pepsi motor |
| 23:30.06 | ``Erik | out of aluminum? |
| 23:30.20 | ``Erik | won't the throat temperature be... destructive? |
| 23:30.29 | ``Erik | what's the term that dude used, ummm |
| 23:30.49 | ``Erik | spontanious rapid disassembly? |
| 23:31.05 | Twingy | not unless your wok is running at 1250F |
| 23:31.14 | Twingy | most woks are at like 500 no? |
| 23:31.27 | ``Erik | <-- meant for a rocket motor |
| 23:31.36 | Twingy | ah, for a naive one sure |
| 23:31.42 | ``Erik | which, from the courses I've been to, like in the neighborhood of 2000f |
| 23:31.44 | ``Erik | *shrug* |
| 23:32.08 | Twingy | depends on how you configure it |
| 23:32.12 | Twingy | and what propellants |
| 23:32.26 | Twingy | and whether you got heat fins on it |
| 23:32.58 | ``Erik | yeah *shrug* confuration they're talking is 'how much thrust can I get out of one shot of this thing" |
| 23:33.22 | ``Erik | <-- cooks himslef up some green beans |
| 23:34.53 | ``Erik | seriously, you're in teh same directorate as a guru in the subject |
| 23:38.55 | Twingy | there's probly a bunch of guru's here on the subject |
| 23:39.04 | Twingy | not going to get involved with them though |
| 23:39.15 | Twingy | that way I can't claim any affiliation |
| 23:39.24 | ``Erik | aight *shrug* |
| 23:39.26 | Twingy | or implementation of propietary knowledge |
| 23:39.49 | ``Erik | there's one I've talked to a couple times who is supposedly *THE* guy, but I'll shut up on it :) |
| 23:40.22 | Twingy | I don't see how his background would help me on such small primitive motors which I have a firm grasp on |
| 23:40.36 | Twingy | he'd be the guy to talk to if I was building an Atlas IV maybe |
| 23:41.07 | ``Erik | actually, 4" liquid motors... and they're disturbingly similar to my showerhead thingy, which woulda failed if I understand correctly |
| 23:41.08 | ``Erik | :) |
| 23:41.48 | Twingy | still think you should have tried it |
| 23:42.32 | ``Erik | if I understand correctly, the biggest problem would've been how I attached the input nozzles int he upper chamber, those'll blow out |
| 23:42.48 | ``Erik | otherwise, the throat wasn't small enough, the choke would've bene subsonic |
| 23:42.52 | ``Erik | or it'd go through fuel like mad |
| 23:42.53 | ``Erik | heh |
| 23:43.57 | ``Erik | oh, and how I attached teh injectors, heh, has been patented. :( |
| 23:47.06 | Twingy | everything has been patented so what? |
| 23:47.26 | ``Erik | heh, yeah. modern patents have killed innovation. |
| 23:47.27 | ``Erik | :( |
| 23:47.52 | Twingy | nah |
| 23:48.08 | Twingy | you can still innovate on your own, no gastapo gonna come after you unless you make $$$ |
| 23:50.34 | Maloeran | That didn't work for the open source developpers in the states who were sued for such infringement |
| 23:52.43 | Twingy | that's why you go anonymous and host offshore :) |
| 23:52.55 | Twingy | *spoken like a loyal federal employee* |
| 00:53.39 | Twingy | yay, phone battery arrived |
| 00:53.43 | Twingy | phone_life += 2 |
| 00:54.11 | ``Erik | +=, not *= ? |
| 00:54.13 | brlcad | twingy wears a +2 ring of regeneration you say? |
| 00:56.46 | Twingy | in this case += == *= |
| 00:57.37 | ``Erik | heh |
| 01:09.35 | ``Erik | heh |
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| 02:38.58 | Maloeran | That immigration visa questionaire is amusing, with questions asking for example if I have ordered or organized genocide, or practiced polygamy |
| 02:39.21 | Maloeran | Or if I was part of the Nazi german government between 1933 and 1945, nice one! |
| 02:39.32 | ``Erik | well, bear in mind |
| 02:39.37 | ``Erik | if you aren't moving to utah |
| 02:39.54 | ``Erik | than polygamy is worse than genocide |
| 02:40.06 | ``Erik | and premarital sex is absolutely horrible |
| 02:40.36 | Maloeran | Eheh, absolutely |
| 02:40.47 | Maloeran | Another nice one : "Have you ever, in or outside of the U.S. knowingly committed a crime for which you have not been arrested ?" |
| 02:41.12 | Maloeran | I would be curious to know what percentage of people really answers Yes to that one |
| 02:50.22 | Twingy | none that I'm willing to admit :) |
| 03:05.39 | ``Erik | download of whats? |
| 03:05.43 | ``Erik | O:-) |
| 03:09.26 | Twingy | uh oh, bad internet connection or feds are after me |
| 03:12.43 | ``Erik | hah |
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| 14:51.39 | Maloeran | Masters of automake, Erik or brlcad, what do you recommend for a way to compile and link in a .s file if and only if on ia32? |
| 14:51.55 | Maloeran | I need a assembly hack to align the stack of threads on 16 bytes |
| 15:59.26 | Maloeran | Ah nevermind, I'll just do the thing in inline assembly |
| 16:14.46 | brlcad | add an AM_CONDITIONAL into configure.ac that defines some symbol true when on ia32, you then use that in your Makefile.am to add the source |
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| 21:44.51 | brlcad | hmm.. i reckon you're probably not even still around |
| 21:49.43 | ``Erik | hrm? what, the, uh, thingie I just sent an email for? |
| 21:49.47 | ``Erik | I'm just doing fbsd |
| 21:49.56 | brlcad | got a sourceball somewhere? |
| 21:50.19 | ``Erik | yeah, in the fbsd ports distfiles dir on the fileserver |
| 21:50.29 | ``Erik | or /usr/ports/distfiles/ on any fbsd box |
| 21:51.29 | brlcad | heh, thx (cept not on ???1) ;) |
| 21:51.38 | brlcad | no matter, they have svn.. |
| 21:51.59 | ``Erik | huh? yeah, uh |
| 21:52.00 | ``Erik | erm |
| 21:52.03 | ``Erik | it should be on 1 |
| 21:52.18 | ``Erik | the name |
| 21:52.19 | ``Erik | um |
| 21:52.22 | brlcad | ah, yeah |
| 21:52.23 | brlcad | i see it |
| 21:52.27 | ``Erik | s/[^-]*-// |
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| 02:53.26 | Twingy | back! |
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| 12:48.41 | ``Erik | http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-364754440098164470 |
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| 17:36.49 | Maloeran | Hum! If anyone is also a gamer and desires a PS3 : http://ps3.shimpinomori.net/index_en.html |
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| 20:29.20 | brlcad | heh |
| 20:44.16 | ``Erik | toast burner o.O |
| 20:45.41 | brlcad | and proud of it |
| 21:07.45 | *** join/#brlcad lg_ (n=lg_@85.101.21.197) | |
| 21:07.50 | lg_ | hi |
| 21:08.30 | lg_ | anyone online? |
| 21:09.42 | docelic | take a guess. |
| 21:09.59 | ``Erik | no, we're all off-line, which is why this channel has no users in it |
| 21:10.04 | ``Erik | :) |
| 21:10.22 | lg_ | ;-) great, i also have no time and should sleep now |
| 21:10.39 | lg_ | actually i wanted to ask for a favour... |
| 21:13.02 | lg_ | i have asked for some info on the new cpp-interfaces available for brlcad, which should be in rather active development right now. there is a project forming to create a kde-based parametric cad app, and as the focus should be on useability, and the underlying engine could be an external one, the idea was to build up on brlcad |
| 21:15.14 | Maloeran | If there was anything after "build up on brlcad", the irc length limit cuts it |
| 21:15.50 | lg_ | no, there should have been a point maybe ;-) |
| 21:16.58 | lg_ | the project name is kreative3d, and there had been some discussion on the topic among interested people, but i could not get any insight into how to interface brlcad as an engine for a cad application written in c++ |
| 21:18.51 | Maloeran | The person holding the 'brlcad' nickname could guide you on this, any idea what piece of BRL-CAD you are interested in? It's one huge beast |
| 21:21.15 | lg_ | actually, i thought it should be possible to write a database layer on top of the geometric objects, making it extendeable to app-specific objects such as walls, stairs, which would be generators for brlcad-databases |
| 21:22.00 | lg_ | but there is a point where feedback is required, i must be able to load a scene, perform csg, view it in a buffer that must be managed by the cpp-app |
| 21:23.02 | lg_ | if i catch user activity in this frame, e.g. clicking on a pixel, i have to be able to call brlcad routines to trace to get the object, e.g. to edit it |
| 21:23.44 | Maloeran | *nods* brlcad is the guy to help there, feel free to idle around until he wakes up |
| 21:24.17 | lg_ | i see, it is hard with time zones ;-) |
| 21:24.44 | lg_ | (sitting in istanbul, turkey, where it is 23.25 now ;-) |
| 21:25.02 | Maloeran | Metaphorically speaking :), he's in the united states, 16h25 there |
| 21:25.49 | lg_ | i know ;-) |
| 21:42.04 | brlcad | hello lg_ |
| 21:42.29 | lg_ | hi! |
| 21:42.43 | lg_ | so you woke up, as others predicted ;-) |
| 21:42.55 | brlcad | catching my breath |
| 21:43.42 | lg_ | by the way, my name is lars an i never get used to these irc-nicks |
| 21:44.01 | brlcad | lg_: so just reading through what you just wrote, there's a couple considerations |
| 21:44.07 | brlcad | did we talk a couple weeks ago? |
| 21:44.18 | brlcad | or was that someone else? |
| 21:44.23 | lg_ | yes, but that time there was no kreative3d-group |
| 21:44.28 | brlcad | okay |
| 21:44.59 | lg_ | (which was not invented by me, but i try to find out if i can suggest them to work on brlcad) |
| 21:45.37 | brlcad | it sounds like a good idea, and will overall save years of effort really if utilized appropriately |
| 21:45.53 | brlcad | but that isn't to say that it's a trivial task, and there's work that would need to be done to support it |
| 21:46.53 | lg_ | yes, i wasn't expecting anything else. but i guess inventing a new csg would be harder, so IF it is possiblen, than by adopting to an existing engine |
| 21:46.59 | brlcad | brl-cad is used as a geometry engine, that's one of it's primary purposes -- creating a robust C++ wrapper over that engine is a task in itself, nothing too complicated really but something that's only partiallly completed as is |
| 21:47.55 | brlcad | there is a prototype start of some effort, I think I mentioned that last time -- and I've actually blocked off some time tomorrow to work on reviewing what we currently have and putting it into revision control somewhere so folks can access it |
| 21:48.31 | lg_ | that would be great, as people could estimate what it needed to connect to this effort |
| 21:48.34 | brlcad | the bigger issue that I'm sure will impact you will be .. getting an explicit representation of the geometry, i.e. getting triangles out so you can stuff it over to opengl |
| 21:49.24 | brlcad | that layer of brl-cad, converting from the preferred mathematical implicit geometry to an explicit form, needs work to be more robust frankly at least for "real models" |
| 21:49.40 | lg_ | yes, i wonder if this should be done in a pure unix-way by using conversion from the .g-database to meshes |
| 21:49.57 | brlcad | but the other side, e.g. picking and selecting objects along a ray, is rather trivial stuff -- ray-tracing is brl-cad's bread and butter |
| 21:49.59 | lg_ | maybe with some caching, it could be possible to create an atomic cad like this? |
| 21:50.59 | lg_ | yes, i think the point about tracing back and querying object information is only a question how clean it could be integrated into cpp, so the wrappers |
| 21:51.07 | brlcad | our existing converters work in a 'unix-way" g- |
| 21:51.38 | brlcad | but that's not the issue, the issue is an algorithmic one .. going from implicit to explicit |
| 21:52.15 | lg_ | yes... do you think it is possible to build graphic output on something like the other mesh converters (g2obj e.g.)? |
| 21:52.33 | brlcad | there is an interface that exists now for doing that conversion, wheter it be by a tool-based approach, or directly calling the same routines that the converters use |
| 21:53.00 | lg_ | ok, that sounds interesting for the task |
| 21:53.02 | brlcad | you mean directly connecting the converter as part of the display process in the app? |
| 21:53.11 | lg_ | yes ;-) |
| 21:53.14 | brlcad | ah |
| 21:53.17 | brlcad | no |
| 21:53.17 | brlcad | :) |
| 21:53.22 | brlcad | that would probably be bad :) |
| 21:53.42 | brlcad | conversions take a long time and are generally rather error-prone processes |
| 21:53.56 | brlcad | unless you have pristine geometry, which is rather rare |
| 21:54.25 | brlcad | there are means to fix that.. it "could" be made more interactive |
| 21:54.29 | lg_ | i know, i actually thought about that by the means if caching, doing this step only for modified or added objects |
| 21:55.02 | brlcad | but that would require (re)implementing a mesh library for brl-cad geometry (which would be a great task) |
| 21:55.19 | brlcad | ahh, that is possible, and something we've considered on occassion |
| 21:55.46 | lg_ | i would like to avoid building a fat app |
| 21:55.49 | brlcad | it would be doable in that situation, though you're architecting a hack around a suboptimal situation |
| 21:56.05 | brlcad | it's only a little more work to "fix it" so that it works interactively |
| 21:56.57 | brlcad | apologies on the delay responding.. rather overloaded with tasks at the moment and support e-mails have been piling up |
| 21:57.03 | lg_ | what do you mean by mesh library - putting the conversion code into a lib? |
| 21:57.11 | brlcad | sure |
| 21:57.16 | lg_ | ;-) no problem, i am asking for help |
| 21:58.58 | brlcad | all the mesh library would really entail is taking the in-memory brl-cad form, and generating the polygons from the data |
| 21:59.21 | brlcad | it's trivial to get polygons for each primitive, and brl-cad supports that rather easily .. the work is in performing the CSG boolean evaluations |
| 21:59.42 | lg_ | hm, so the big task would be to divide the meshing and conversion, and than write an app that loads the mesh - than we could just call rt to query objects and set up on a cpp wrapper for modifying the database. |
| 22:00.22 | lg_ | sounds more like a problem with code structure in brlcad for this use than too much algorithm stuff? |
| 22:00.24 | brlcad | you can either perform that directly on the implicits (via ray-tracing), on triangles to triangles (which an implementation of exists in brl-cad), or on splines to triangles (which doesn't exist functionally yet) |
| 22:00.42 | brlcad | if you can do the meshing, you've got a conversion |
| 22:00.47 | brlcad | they're the same problem |
| 22:01.13 | brlcad | if you have a mesh or if you don't, brl-cad can still query the geometry fast enough for picking/info purposes |
| 22:02.08 | lg_ | yes, but as i understand the meshing code exists and is functional, e.g. in g2obj, just had to be cleanly seperated into libs? |
| 22:03.26 | brlcad | lg_: the problem is with the overall design purpose and approach.. brl-cad's library was written to be numerically sound and robust to represent/evaluate first (which is where implicit geometry comes to play), not for pretty opengl display (which requires explicit geometry) |
| 22:04.00 | brlcad | that said, we have a mutual need -- everyone wants pretty opengl displays these days ;) |
| 22:04.33 | lg_ | ;-) what is about the opengl dm, how much useable is the code used there? |
| 22:04.50 | brlcad | the meshing code exists in several forms and is functional .. but could certainly be improved, and in well defined ways |
| 22:05.41 | brlcad | the opengl dm in brl-cad isn't really relevant/useful to this purpose |
| 22:07.05 | lg_ | i see. maybe it would be worth to test the concept by writing a dummy app? |
| 22:07.30 | lg_ | than people could laugh about it or build something serious on the idea |
| 22:08.09 | brlcad | basically what I'd suggest is to consider what exactly it is that you're wanting from the engine -- if you're actually writing a "CAD" system, there are fundamental design considerations that should be taken into account |
| 22:08.52 | brlcad | in that regard, brl-cad will certainly be a given to use, solid modeling is not something any new project is going to be able to jump into without many years of invested effort |
| 22:10.10 | brlcad | which is basically saying that there is a lot provided in brl-cad that you'd be getting for free, even though more work is likely going to be required to get wherre you want |
| 22:10.20 | brlcad | namely work on the c++ interface and the meshing interface |
| 22:11.04 | brlcad | collaboration there would certainly be a very good thing -- it's also something on our task plate (both of them) over the next upcoming year for the project |
| 22:11.37 | lg_ | yes, that is what i got. i think getting a view of what exists now will be great, and than people can consider what they can and want to do. |
| 22:12.39 | brlcad | I just recently put together a presentation that I can send to you that describes brl-cad in a nutshell |
| 22:13.02 | brlcad | it's rather high-level, so I' |
| 22:13.07 | lg_ | the point is that the folks behind the project i mentioned are mainly from gui. and that is a big part of what is missing to make brlcad useable for some applications. if you send me the description, it might motivate folks to jump on the project |
| 22:13.27 | brlcad | so I'm not sure how interesting it'll be to you, but it might at least give you an idea where things are and where they may be going |
| 22:14.01 | lg_ | i think especially to see where development takes place is very valuable now |
| 22:14.20 | brlcad | yeah, I completely agree with respect to brl-cad's gui.. that's our own #1 issue being worked on actually, and the reason for the new solid modeler under development (that I suppose would technically be a competitor to kreative3d) ;) |
| 22:14.37 | brlcad | btw, doesn't creative labs have a tool called kreative3d?? |
| 22:15.10 | lg_ | i don't hope so, but it is worth to look for. |
| 22:15.59 | brlcad | i vaguely recall some product .. it was either the sound card folks or maybe.. maybe bryce or something |
| 22:16.15 | lg_ | but i think that the difference of the modelers as i think it is that i would like to see it not so much as a pure geometry modeler, which might be your goal, right? |
| 22:16.43 | lg_ | (when the project starts to produce things, the name has to be checked!) |
| 22:17.00 | brlcad | maybe just confusing product names.. rather generic terms with a K sound :) |
| 22:17.23 | lg_ | yes, it is not that new, that idea |
| 22:17.41 | brlcad | not sure what you mean by a pure geometry modeler |
| 22:18.20 | brlcad | as for whether our scope is limited to a solid geometry modeler, then initially yes |
| 22:18.50 | brlcad | though the demand is so large for drafting, that it's also on the development plan but hopefully from contributors that get interested |
| 22:18.51 | lg_ | i think you want to create geometry. i am thinking about a layer, where the user actually creates a wall, and that wall object is translated into (brlcad) csg instructions |
| 22:19.26 | lg_ | so maybe not all of brlcads features is used |
| 22:19.39 | brlcad | undoubtedly |
| 22:19.46 | brlcad | brl-cad does more than csg too ;) |
| 22:20.16 | brlcad | (geometry representation-wise) |
| 22:20.33 | lg_ | i thought about a modeler doing something as the generator tools brlcad includes |
| 22:21.02 | brlcad | huh? parse error on that sentance :) |
| 22:21.31 | brlcad | "generator tools brlcad includes" |
| 22:22.21 | lg_ | i would actually save the wall objects as a scripts generating brlcad geometry (there is a wall generator in brlcad e.g., which simply outputs a .g database) |
| 22:22.23 | brlcad | ooh, maybe s/as the/with/ |
| 22:22.37 | brlcad | gotcha |
| 22:22.58 | brlcad | that's procedural geometry |
| 22:23.43 | lg_ | yes. but the generator would have to be able to e.g. provide an opening when a window object requests it |
| 22:24.55 | brlcad | sure, that's just a term for geometry that is created procedurally and generally automatically according to some defined interface process |
| 22:25.13 | brlcad | you could have a procedural geometry generator for just about anything |
| 22:26.47 | lg_ | and i would do it in a way that the wall object not only creates geometry, but would have a set of procedures defined to e.g. cut holes. than this object would create the brlcad calls |
| 22:29.45 | brlcad | so, I'll see if I can get through the c++ interface review tomorrow, and hopefully more progress on it over the weekend so it can be put into svn |
| 22:30.03 | brlcad | did you want that high-level overview? |
| 22:30.44 | lg_ | yes, would be great |
| 22:31.21 | brlcad | okay, I should have that out to you tomorrow at the latest |
| 22:31.43 | lg_ | (i do not want you to hurry that much, if it is in the next days, it would be great!) |
| 22:32.12 | lg_ | should i give you my mail? |
| 22:32.21 | brlcad | not any trouble, I've been working on it over the past couple days, just have to take out a few things that aren't yet releasable |
| 22:36.54 | lg_ | as i already mentioned, i am a victim of time zones, it is past midnight here. so i would really like to thank you for tonight and switch to sleep mode ;-) |
| 22:38.57 | lg_ | i will be on the net on week-end |
| 22:41.11 | lg_ | good night (i know most of you have some more hours of daylight before ;-) |
| 22:43.35 | lg_ | |-) |
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| 13:40.02 | Maloeran | Erik, there's a pass of the model prep I have no idea how to efficiently parallelize, your input could be nice if you got some time today |
| 13:43.27 | Maloeran | Briefly. unlike other passes, I can't just "lock" a finite volume of space as I can't easily know in advance how far it will search through the neighbourhood ; the processing required to safely parallelize doubles the amount of work of the pass |
| 14:37.28 | ``Erik | O.o |
| 14:54.45 | Maloeran | Any thoughts? Tell me if you would like to know details, or me to shut up and solve that myself :) |
| 15:00.45 | ``Erik | what exactly is the pass? |
| 15:01.11 | ``Erik | there's not enough info there to say anything... |
| 15:01.31 | ``Erik | (this can be done via dcc or phone if you don't wanna say in 'public') |
| 15:01.55 | ``Erik | or I suppose you could describe the problem in a file in the cvs repo |
| 15:03.30 | ``Erik | hum |
| 15:04.51 | Maloeran | Eh thanks, will privmsg here do? |
| 15:05.13 | ``Erik | <-- trying to get his thingie ok with privmsg... freenode suck |
| 15:05.14 | ``Erik | s |
| 15:05.50 | ``Erik | bah |
| 15:05.57 | Maloeran | Efnet then |
| 15:06.03 | ``Erik | yeah, much better |
| 15:44.32 | *** join/#brlcad docelic (i=docelic@ri01-136.dialin.iskon.hr) | |
| 17:49.38 | CIA-5 | BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/doc/README.Windows: details on building under Windows |
| 18:20.56 | Maloeran | Commited, ``Erik |
| 18:21.22 | Maloeran | Feel free to report how much it dead-locks, segfaults or bursts in flames :) |
| 18:23.07 | Maloeran | Otherwise, some figure on how much it scales with the number of processors would be nice. There's a #define for that in rfdemo.c |
| 18:24.02 | ``Erik | heh |
| 18:24.36 | ``Erik | I just ran the truck on a 4 core 2.0 ghz amd64 running fbsd62 and an 8 core 1.8ghz amd64 running linux26 |
| 18:24.41 | ``Erik | they get about the same speed... |
| 18:24.43 | ``Erik | lemme update |
| 18:27.29 | ``Erik | now I get seggies |
| 18:27.44 | ``Erik | the fbsd one first whined about RF/job.c 101, then the next time went sig11 |
| 18:27.51 | ``Erik | the linux one went sig11 after drawing a frame or 2 |
| 18:28.11 | Maloeran | Ahah, okaayy |
| 18:29.17 | Maloeran | Line 101 is a failed sanity check, I'll look into that. Thanks |
| 18:29.53 | ``Erik | on linux |
| 18:29.54 | ``Erik | #0 linkListAddPair (listhead0=0x2a95c1cbc0, listhead1=0x2a959740b0, step0=0x2a95c1cb88, step1=0x2a95974080, memblock=0x513bf0) at ../../../RF/prepmodel.c:717 |
| 18:29.54 | ``Erik | 717 if( ( linklist1->used == LINKS_PER_LIST ) ) { |
| 18:30.10 | ``Erik | (gdb) bt |
| 18:30.10 | ``Erik | #0 linkListAddPair (listhead0=0x2a95c1cbc0, listhead1=0x2a959740b0, step0=0x2a95c1cb88, step1=0x2a95974080, memblock=0x513bf0) at ../../../RF/prepmodel.c:717 |
| 18:30.10 | ``Erik | #1 0x0000002a9585bcef in jobModelPrepStep (engine=0x50aa20, job=Variable "job" is not available. |
| 18:30.10 | ``Erik | ) at ../../../RF/prepmodel.c:1721 |
| 18:30.10 | ``Erik | #2 0x0000002a95852f03 in jobThreadWork (thread=0x50ac28) at ../../../RF/job.c:188 |
| 18:30.47 | Maloeran | Thanks. |
| 18:31.15 | ``Erik | fbsd is consistantly giving the job.c 101 error now |
| 18:31.33 | Maloeran | If you could output a graph cache with a single thread, you could at least test the raytracing itself |
| 18:34.35 | ``Erik | rebuilding... |
| 18:36.27 | ``Erik | got caches... rebuilding to be threaded... |
| 18:37.23 | Maloeran | Forcing thread count to 1 now gives you a "worker" thread and the main user thread |
| 18:37.39 | Maloeran | Before today, function calls would block until the job was done |
| 18:37.47 | ``Erik | now both machines now give the RF/jobs.c 101 error |
| 18:38.01 | Maloeran | Okay, seems I really got something to fix there |
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| 18:38.45 | ``Erik | could be that you're looking for a job to execute before one is put in the queue |
| 18:39.19 | Maloeran | Yes, it detects an empty task in the queue... but I'm always adding jobs to the task before queuing the task, within a mutex |
| 18:39.32 | Maloeran | So I don't quite see what's going on there yet |
| 18:40.01 | clock_ | I tried to make some instruction videos with mged and vnc2swf but mged doesn't run inside vnc |
| 18:45.56 | ``Erik | I'm not so sure you do, mal... I see context calls jobSystemInit(), which inits the queue and throws threads... and the threads immediately lock and try to grab a job |
| 18:46.16 | Maloeran | That's fine |
| 18:46.35 | ``Erik | but there's no chance to put anything in the queue and the lock is not held by the originator |
| 18:46.45 | Maloeran | The line 101 is : We found a queued task not yet initiated, but it has no job in it |
| 18:47.38 | ``Erik | so something needs to lock the queue before the threads are thrown... and hold it until a completed task is put into the queue... |
| 18:47.46 | ``Erik | completed as in fully defined |
| 18:47.56 | ``Erik | no? |
| 18:48.11 | Maloeran | Threads are launched, they look for work, don't find any, then wait for signals |
| 18:48.45 | Maloeran | jobTrace locks mutex, allocates a job, puts it into task, queue task ( which sends signal ), unlock mutex |
| 18:49.24 | Maloeran | The threads find the queued task just fine, but they don't find any job in it, which is... curious |
| 18:51.09 | ``Erik | hm, *shrug* |
| 18:58.35 | ``Erik | right after the lock? |
| 18:58.37 | ``Erik | (can't pm here) |
| 18:58.47 | ``Erik | :373 ? |
| 18:59.26 | Maloeran | Fine, or in the mutex |
| 18:59.42 | archivist | just register your nick to pm |
| 19:00.16 | archivist | <PROTECTED> |
| 19:01.08 | ``Erik | archivist: I registered it a long long time ago, forgot the password, talked to an ircop, they said they would delete it in the next hour, the next day it wasn't deleted, tried talking to teh ircop again, they said it was gone, but every time I tried to register, it said it was already registered... |
| 19:01.25 | ``Erik | still job.c +101 |
| 19:05.35 | archivist | hehe screwed nickserv Last Seen: 1 year 7 weeks 6 days (20h 1m 30s) ag |
| 19:05.54 | archivist | your not here !!!! |
| 19:06.18 | ``Erik | :) |
| 19:07.14 | Maloeran | So the job is detected by the thread adding the task, but not by the other thread reading the task |
| 19:07.50 | archivist | you could attempt to drop the nick |
| 19:08.07 | ``Erik | archivist: tried it a while back... via an ircop... :) |
| 19:08.43 | archivist | I was wondering if nickserv sees you do it it may work |
| 19:09.12 | ``Erik | sees me do what? |
| 19:10.44 | archivist | needs the password though, /msg nickserv DROP <nickname> <password> |
| 19:11.11 | ``Erik | yeah, ... I tried to get the oper to drop it cuz I forgot the password |
| 19:11.17 | Maloeran | I would have thought nicknames are dropped eventually |
| 19:11.19 | ``Erik | they couldn't reset the passwd or anything |
| 19:11.26 | Maloeran | I mean, it should be obvious after an year |
| 19:11.46 | ``Erik | the oper said they were, but was gonna drop it 'early' for me... never did, though *shrug* freenode just sucks ;> |
| 19:18.21 | Maloeran | If I had access to a crashing box, I would print the pointer of the tasks queued, and the pointer of the "empty" task |
| 19:18.52 | Maloeran | Okay. More than the Shark profiler, I need multi-processor without shared caches |
| 19:24.05 | ``Erik | heehhe, the list of shit you need keeps growin', dude :D |
| 19:24.13 | ``Erik | portable quality sw can be a bitch to write |
| 19:24.59 | Maloeran | I really hate hunting for bugs without being able to reproduce the bugs myself |
| 19:25.41 | Maloeran | This one is incomprehensible in its apparent simplicity |
| 19:26.28 | Maloeran | Do you think you could give me a couple minutes to insert some printf()s? I fail to understand |
| 19:28.07 | ``Erik | sure, tell me what file/line and what to print |
| 19:28.21 | ``Erik | or if you want, make a branch in cvs, make the changes, I'll update against it, run it, and let you know the results |
| 19:40.05 | ``Erik | efnet... |
| 19:42.43 | Maloeran | Thanks, though it doesn't print the pointer of the funky broken task before FAIL()'ing |
| 19:43.36 | ``Erik | erm, it doesn't? |
| 19:44.18 | Maloeran | Doesn't seem so at least, lack of fflush perhaps? |
| 19:44.27 | ``Erik | here comes another |
| 19:44.41 | ``Erik | okie, I'll fflush both prints |
| 19:45.30 | Maloeran | Wait, I'll just send you a job.c |
| 19:50.44 | Maloeran | I think I may have a clue what's going on, finally |
| 19:52.15 | Maloeran | Thanks Erik |
| 19:52.18 | ``Erik | np |
| 19:53.18 | Maloeran | Did you get crashes in the prep or during tracing earlier? |
| 19:53.27 | Maloeran | When you tried before generating a cache |
| 19:54.03 | Maloeran | Ah, during the prep too. Okay |
| 19:57.54 | Maloeran | Cool, that's some neat thread race condition. I don't explain the prep crash yet though |
| 19:58.17 | ``Erik | crashed during prep, ran it single threaded to generate the caches, now it crashes during the trace (it actually flashes a pic of the trck up before crashing) |
| 19:59.37 | Maloeran | I don't explain the prep crash yet, but that's a complex beast with many passes, I'm less worried about being able to miss something there |
| 20:06.34 | brlcad | ``Erik: tried to just identify with no password? |
| 20:07.01 | ``Erik | -NickServ(NickServ@services.)- Password Incorrect |
| 20:10.01 | brlcad | hmm |
| 20:17.28 | brlcad | happen to know who you talked to? |
| 20:17.40 | brlcad | maybe got some newb |
| 20:36.11 | ``Erik | don't remember, was heh almost a year ago |
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| 21:50.23 | b0ef | what toolkit was chosen for the new modeler? |
| 22:08.19 | ``Erik | sync |
| 22:08.19 | ``Erik | ls |
| 22:08.21 | ``Erik | woops |
| 22:42.05 | brlcad | b0ef: it's not decided yet |
| 22:42.39 | brlcad | at least not 100% though there are very strong notions once a full consideration matrix was put together to consider the features of the various options available |
| 22:43.28 | brlcad | still, there is plenty of work to do on the foundation API layers and geometry management before that decision has to be made -- though if others were involved, that could easily change |
| 22:44.12 | brlcad | there are some options that will flat out not be considered due to the nature of the project and purpose/vision/approach of the new modeler |
| 22:45.19 | brlcad | and I merely assume you're not talking about archer, as that's mostly unrelated to the long term interface goals |
| 22:47.35 | brlcad | ``Erik: got a staffer willing to fix the nickserv account problem, at least when he wanders back |
| 22:47.52 | brlcad | RichiH is da man |
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| 23:21.02 | brlcad | ``Erik: so do you want the password reset or the registration deleted, he's willing to do either -- just need to call it |
| 23:21.21 | brlcad | says he sent you some e-mail(s) |
| 23:21.38 | Maloeran | Registration deletion should do, no one else can register the nickname as long as he holds it |
| 23:23.59 | brlcad | done |
| 23:26.16 | ``Erik | hum? |
| 23:26.25 | ``Erik | what's going on? |
| 23:26.32 | brlcad | wake up |
| 23:26.39 | Maloeran | Feel free to register your nickname, Erik |
| 23:26.43 | brlcad | take you hand off the bottle and register |
| 23:26.48 | ``Erik | heh, no bottle |
| 23:26.52 | ``Erik | just got home and started dinner |
| 23:27.13 | ``Erik | hum |
| 23:27.30 | ``Erik | is there any way to change a password? |
| 23:27.49 | brlcad | there is, but had a staffer delete your account (blame Maloeran for calling it) so it's gone |
| 23:27.57 | Maloeran | /msg nickserv help |
| 23:28.11 | ``Erik | aaaaalllrighty then |
| 23:28.12 | ``Erik | heh |
| 23:28.17 | ``Erik | did a drop and register |
| 23:28.35 | brlcad | heh |
| 23:29.02 | brlcad | and quick to change your password before saying that I see :) |
| 23:29.11 | ``Erik | of course |
| 23:29.13 | Maloeran | Eheh |
| 23:29.16 | ``Erik | I'm not a 'tard |
| 23:29.37 | ``Erik | buy me some tequila and I'll get like that soon 'nuff ;) |
| 23:29.46 | brlcad | usually takes about a dozens ghostings before they "get it" |
| 23:29.51 | brlcad | and sometimes they don't |
| 23:30.28 | Maloeran | Bah. I'm going to need your help again for that prep bug, Erik, I couldn't manage to trigger it once for the last hour |
| 23:30.50 | Maloeran | I guess it will wait Monday |
| 23:31.37 | brlcad | Maloeran: i've been meaning to mention some "user experience" feedback I had with rfdemo while preparing for the presentation a week ago |
| 23:31.59 | Maloeran | Go ahead, the demo sure is crude |
| 23:32.09 | ``Erik | "man, that's one ugly assed truck" |
| 23:32.24 | brlcad | mostly it has to do with the conversion and prep phase, almost undoubtedly degenerate geometry issues |
| 23:32.43 | Maloeran | The CSG->Triangles leave small and big gaps everywhere, the raytracer isn't always to blame there |
| 23:32.50 | brlcad | i had a bunch of various models that I converted from g to ase cleanly |
| 23:33.22 | brlcad | and must have gotten lucky with the first model as it went through perfectly, about 200k tris |
| 23:34.13 | brlcad | but all four of the next ones I tried all failed horribly, as they'd prep spewing lots of output and then basically showing what looked like a polygon soup |
| 23:34.26 | Maloeran | The ASE converter was written specifically to convert the the rotter-lowe and cathedral models, I won't pretend it's perfectly compliant with the specs |
| 23:34.28 | ``Erik | mmm, curley brackets |
| 23:35.16 | brlcad | it might have been the ase phase, but it seemed more like degenerate handling code in the reader that was throwing away a lot of triangles |
| 23:35.17 | Maloeran | Right. I think the ASE converter is presently ignoring matrices, because some other ASE exporters would provide matrices... while already transfering the vertices |
| 23:35.54 | Maloeran | It should only throw away triangles with colinear points, triangles that rays can't intersect |
| 23:36.18 | Maloeran | ( My internal triangle representation can not handle triangles of colinear points ) |
| 23:36.30 | brlcad | also, rfdemo's mouse input didn't work nor did most of the key input except the cursor controls and maybe one or two others (e.g. esc didn't work nor did the reset key, etc) |
| 23:36.45 | Maloeran | There's no mouse input, escape should work |
| 23:37.29 | Maloeran | already transforming* the vertices |
| 23:37.34 | brlcad | i glanced through the code just to try and see what the bindings even were since I couldn't get anything other than the cursor keys to do anything |
| 23:37.56 | ``Erik | brlcad expects way too much of the thing |
| 23:38.02 | ``Erik | there's a "case 27:" for escaping |
| 23:38.03 | brlcad | pretty much only those four keys worked |
| 23:38.09 | brlcad | nah, I expected very little |
| 23:38.10 | ``Erik | and a few others |
| 23:38.14 | ``Erik | like space, ummm |
| 23:38.23 | Maloeran | Arrow keys, page up/down to zoom in/out/, escape |
| 23:38.34 | ``Erik | space to stop rotation |
| 23:38.37 | brlcad | that's what I mean.. ONLY the arrow keys worked |
| 23:38.53 | brlcad | i hit the others testing once I found the bindings in the code |
| 23:39.00 | ``Erik | odd |
| 23:39.06 | brlcad | so there's maybe some issue there |
| 23:39.26 | ``Erik | worked for me on my g5 and remote X to a fbsd opteron |
| 23:39.30 | Maloeran | I really haven't focused too much on fancy demos... All I wanted was to make sure things were working smoothly so far |
| 23:39.49 | Maloeran | SDL key bindings should work pretty much everywhere, normally |
| 23:39.50 | brlcad | added a print statement, it was definitely getting the event .. just not doing what it was supposed to |
| 23:39.50 | ``Erik | O:-) |
| 23:41.20 | Maloeran | Transparency shouldn't be too much trouble, but I'm not too sure what model to use for that. The truck has gaps everywhere |
| 23:42.23 | ``Erik | *shrug* the truck also has lots of internal geometry |
| 23:42.47 | Maloeran | brlcad, I'm not entirely following when you say it was receiving the events but not doing what it was supposed to |
| 23:43.06 | Maloeran | Are you talking about the escape, space bar keys? I can't think of much else. Mouse input sure would be good to add |
| 23:44.54 | brlcad | yeah, space is a good example.. press escape and it'd print that an event was received right before doing into whatever the name of that routine is in the case statement |
| 23:45.35 | brlcad | so it'd get there.. but the reset routine to stop the motion wasn't functional for "some" reason |
| 23:45.35 | ``Erik | the interactive demo interface isn't the point, though, ... don't sacrifice too much effort to dress it up, just show off glitzy featues of the lib :) |
| 23:45.59 | Maloeran | <PROTECTED> |
| 23:46.50 | Maloeran | Anyhow, that can't be too serious as a problem |
| 23:46.52 | brlcad | hmm, then that wasn't the one I was looking at or not the same place in the code perhaps .. but same end result |
| 23:47.08 | brlcad | i.e. space wasn't stopping it, and esc wasn't quitting |
| 23:47.20 | ``Erik | escape has worked since the beginning for me o.O |
| 23:47.25 | Maloeran | Right, okay. OSX I assume? |
| 23:47.28 | ``Erik | what A) version and B) os/arch ? |
| 23:47.31 | brlcad | intel OS X |
| 23:47.45 | brlcad | latest SDL binaries |
| 23:47.59 | brlcad | whatever ver of rayforce I was given.. recent cvs iirc |
| 23:48.45 | Maloeran | I really have no explanation, the SDL scancodes are supposed to be constant |
| 23:48.52 | ``Erik | ok, I have a macbook pro here, lemme update it and give it a whack there... |
| 23:57.18 | Maloeran | Status, Erik? |
| 00:06.50 | ``Erik | status: my dinner is almost done |
| 00:06.50 | ``Erik | :D |
| 00:06.54 | ``Erik | oh, and I got the macbook on the network... now to get the source... and the dependancies... heh |
| 00:07.08 | Maloeran | Oh :) |
| 00:11.15 | ``Erik | chekcing out... |
| 00:13.18 | Maloeran | Threaded ray tracing should work smoothly now |
| 03:12.31 | *** join/#brlcad Matsu (n=kurumin@201-7-126-204.superonda.com.br) | |
| 03:13.04 | Matsu | Hi, Good evening |
| 03:13.12 | Matsu | Is there somebody live? |
| 03:14.32 | Matsu | folks? |
| 03:19.30 | Maloeran | Good evening |
| 03:20.29 | brlcad | howdy |
| 03:23.13 | Matsu | hey |
| 03:23.18 | Matsu | Man |
| 03:23.33 | Matsu | I cant find a tutorial to explane me how to import dwg files |
| 03:23.34 | Matsu | :( |
| 03:23.58 | Matsu | And.. sorry for my poor english... it's not my mothertongue |
| 03:23.59 | brlcad | there isn't a dwg importer, only a dxf one |
| 03:24.09 | Matsu | oh man... :( |
| 03:24.16 | brlcad | also dwg is a 2D drafting format, not a 3D solid modeling one |
| 03:24.25 | brlcad | and solid modeling is brl-cad's focus |
| 03:24.39 | brlcad | not drafting purposes so much |
| 03:24.54 | Matsu | But man, what cad client should i use then? |
| 03:25.10 | Matsu | i knew you were focused in 3d modeling |
| 03:25.14 | brlcad | the only mildly interesting open source 2D drafter that comes to mind is qcad |
| 03:25.36 | Matsu | qcad? |
| 03:25.38 | Matsu | ok |
| 03:25.54 | Matsu | man, thank you very much |
| 03:26.52 | Matsu | And let me tell you that this project seemed to me (some one that knows nothing about softs...) you guys have a nice project |
| 03:26.57 | Matsu | Man, thanks |
| 03:27.12 | Matsu | I've autocad |
| 03:27.14 | Matsu | but |
| 03:27.25 | Matsu | i want an open source |
| 03:27.31 | Matsu | and i'm also |
| 03:27.34 | Matsu | migrating to linux |
| 03:27.36 | Matsu | so... |
| 03:27.47 | Matsu | auto cad has nothing to linux |
| 03:27.50 | Matsu | a pity |
| 03:27.57 | Maloeran | Eheh, right. Last time I used Autocad was on DOS, I guess they only migrated to windows |
| 03:28.20 | Matsu | right. they have only support for windows. |
| 03:28.35 | Matsu | and run things through wine is not so cool i'd say |
| 03:28.54 | Matsu | i tryied to do with a simple program and is crashig all the time |
| 03:29.04 | Matsu | so.. i dont wanna use wine to run win softs |
| 03:29.20 | Matsu | Guys, ty for all. Good luck |
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| 15:36.53 | jack- | heya |
| 15:36.59 | jack- | anyone around atm? |
| 15:37.25 | jack- | i've run into a silly problem, trying to build adrt |
| 15:37.47 | jack- | the header file splash.h just isn't included with brlcad7.8.4.tgz |
| 15:37.52 | jack- | ..wtf ;) |
| 15:39.14 | *** join/#brlcad clock_ (i=clock@84-72-94-96.dclient.hispeed.ch) | |
| 15:39.15 | jack- | hi clock_ |
| 15:39.23 | clock_ | jack-: hi |
| 15:39.32 | clock_ | Can I run brl-cad under vnc? |
| 15:39.37 | jack- | i bet |
| 15:39.42 | *** join/#brlcad clock_ (i=clock@84-72-94-96.dclient.hispeed.ch) | |
| 15:39.48 | jack- | i bet you can |
| 15:39.59 | jack- | did you build adrt already? |
| 15:45.41 | ``Erik | heh, splash.h is missing? hrm |
| 15:47.15 | jack- | yeah |
| 15:47.22 | jack- | trying the 7.8.0 archive now |
| 15:47.38 | jack- | if it's included there, it's ok |
| 15:47.51 | jack- | but you'll want to include it with 7.8.4 as well ;) |
| 15:48.10 | ``Erik | I'd be surprised if it got removed |
| 15:48.17 | ``Erik | given what it was, I'm sure it was never included |
| 15:48.18 | ``Erik | :/ |
| 15:48.32 | jack- | observer.c wants it |
| 15:48.46 | jack- | whatever it shows, i don't care :) just want the stuff to build finally |
| 15:49.06 | ``Erik | yeah, it's a splashscreen image that just sits for a second, if you hack observer.c so it doesn't try the pslash screen, it'll be all good |
| 15:50.21 | jack- | would need to hack it thoroughly, since it's a header file and observer.c coughs without.missing a couple defines and functions |
| 15:51.22 | jack- | surprise, sigh |
| 15:51.30 | jack- | root# tar tzf brlcad-7.8.0.tgz |grep splash |
| 15:51.34 | jack- | root# |
| 15:51.40 | jack- | ;( |
| 15:52.53 | jack- | fn~``Erik: is it big? i could just include a .patch and write it into the builddir myself |
| 15:53.05 | jack- | if you'd dcc splash.h to me :) |
| 15:53.57 | jack- | (i'm trying to package brlcad for fink/macos x, that's why) |
| 15:54.27 | jack- | builds perfectly, but i want adrt too of course |
| 16:04.09 | ``Erik | jack: it's an 800x600 image reduced to raw rgb, then printed as an array of numbers... |
| 16:04.32 | jack- | sounds like "yeah, kinda big" |
| 16:04.37 | ``Erik | and I don't have it, I'd have to talk to the guy who wrote it, heh, or create an equivelant, or just take out the references to it... (hack observer.c, like I said) |
| 16:05.04 | ``Erik | <-- just got a new laptop, so doesn't have ssh keys on sf yet :/ just submitted, but has to wait for the rotation |
| 16:05.22 | jack- | well, observer.c is trying to do more than just access an array.. |
| 16:05.32 | jack- | guess i'd need the rest of that file at least ;x |
| 16:06.02 | jack- | ok, maybe you're right and it's doable |
| 16:06.12 | ``Erik | anything is doable :D |
| 16:06.20 | ``Erik | given sufficient time and knowlege |
| 16:06.23 | ``Erik | knowledge |
| 16:06.24 | jack- | gonna comment all the isst_logo stuff out and try again |
| 16:06.27 | jack- | heh, yeah |
| 16:06.30 | ``Erik | knowledge of spelling would help :D |
| 16:06.46 | jack- | but as a packager, i usually don't waste too much time with a single package you know ;) |
| 16:07.09 | ``Erik | which os? |
| 16:07.13 | jack- | given that brlcad is huge and awesome, i'll try though |
| 16:07.19 | jack- | fink/macos x |
| 16:07.57 | ``Erik | cool, I'm going through and getting all my goodies installed on my new macbook pro 17" :) |
| 16:08.06 | jack- | :) |
| 16:08.16 | ``Erik | adrt/isst really isn't taht much of a part of brlcad, though |
| 16:08.25 | jack- | join #fink if you need/want help |
| 16:08.33 | jack- | yeah well, it's the SDL frontend |
| 16:08.39 | ``Erik | brlcad's geometry format is the ".g database", and adrt uses its own formats |
| 16:08.43 | jack- | so quite some mac users would love it |
| 16:08.51 | ``Erik | adrt is strictly facetized geomtry, brlcad is very much csg |
| 16:08.58 | jack- | i know, yeah |
| 16:09.03 | ``Erik | adrt was just shoved into brlcad as "a convenient place to put it" |
| 16:09.13 | jack- | haha ok :) |
| 16:09.14 | ``Erik | I force it to not build on my fbsd port |
| 16:09.23 | ``Erik | <-- used to use fink, went to darwinports/macports, sorry ;) |
| 16:09.27 | jack- | and users don't cry? |
| 16:09.39 | jack- | well, you can use both on a single mac without problems |
| 16:09.44 | ``Erik | 99.9% of users can't find mged, much less know they're missing adrt |
| 16:09.51 | jack- | dp lives in /opt/local while fink uses /sw |
| 16:09.54 | ``Erik | yeah, I know |
| 16:09.58 | ``Erik | I used to do that |
| 16:10.12 | jack- | what i like about fink is the fact that it's using the debian tools |
| 16:10.15 | jack- | dpkg/apt |
| 16:10.19 | ``Erik | but kept moving to darwinorts more and more... the last thing keeping fink on my machine was gnucash |
| 16:10.25 | jack- | that makes packaging fun for real |
| 16:10.32 | jack- | heh :) ok then |
| 16:10.56 | ``Erik | <-- has a couple debian boxes, never packaged for it... is very much a fbsd guy, and dp uses a /usr/ports/ like thingy,almost... kinda... sorta... |
| 16:11.05 | ``Erik | a lot of retarded, so I THINK it might be more influenced by gentoo |
| 16:11.10 | jack- | kinda, yeah ;) |
| 16:11.10 | ``Erik | stupid linux kids *shakes fist* :D |
| 16:11.18 | jack- | you know there's gentoo/osx too |
| 16:11.28 | jack- | but i can't recommend to use that :p |
| 16:11.34 | ``Erik | ummmmm |
| 16:12.05 | ``Erik | http://funroll-loops.org/ |
| 16:12.46 | jack- | :D |
| 16:12.54 | ``Erik | (if I gotta use linux, I go with debian, but I'm a bsd guy... done time on solaris, hpux, aix, ... still likes me my bsd's) |
| 16:12.55 | jack- | times out here, but cute url |
| 16:13.11 | jack- | maybe i should do http://vomit-frame-pointer.org? |
| 16:13.24 | ``Erik | yeah, the server seems to be down or something |
| 16:13.25 | ``Erik | *sigh* |
| 16:13.36 | ``Erik | doesn't ping |
| 16:13.48 | ``Erik | but the topic of the page is "gentoo is for ricers" |
| 16:13.55 | jack- | hrhr |
| 16:14.17 | jack- | well anyway, thanks for the hint..i'll package brlcad without adrt for now |
| 16:14.17 | ``Erik | with a point by point teardown of the mentality (with real forum and mail list quotes), and pictures of fugly assed 'riced' cars |
| 16:14.17 | ``Erik | :) |
| 16:14.40 | ``Erik | okie, once the keys rotate, I'll look into doing something about the splash screen |
| 16:14.42 | CIA-4 | BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/adrt/isst/observer/Makefile.am: missing splash.h header from dist |
| 16:14.59 | brlcad | jack-: yeah, it's missing from the dist .. but it's in CVS |
| 16:15.09 | jack- | sent an email to brlcad@survice.com, asking for help :) maybe someone notices |
| 16:15.12 | jack- | oh, sweet |
| 16:15.22 | jack- | i'll use anoncvs, thanks |
| 16:15.28 | ``Erik | oh, swank |
| 16:15.30 | ``Erik | aight |
| 16:15.51 | brlcad | heh, @survice.com? where'd you get that e-mail from? |
| 16:16.02 | ``Erik | ehhh, survice.com probably has their own dealie |
| 16:16.13 | ``Erik | trying to convince people they do it so they can charge for it, sheesh |
| 16:16.14 | ``Erik | :D |
| 16:16.16 | jack- | http://brlcad.com |
| 16:16.23 | ``Erik | brlcad.org is the real one |
| 16:16.24 | brlcad | they provide commercial support |
| 16:16.28 | ``Erik | :D |
| 16:16.36 | jack- | duh, ok |
| 16:16.38 | brlcad | the main website is the .org |
| 16:16.44 | jack- | yeah i figured :) |
| 16:16.57 | jack- | but looking for a support email there, i only found out about this chan |
| 16:17.06 | brlcad | either way, the header is here if you want to give it a try: http://ftp.brlcad.org/tmp/splash.h |
| 16:17.06 | ``Erik | oh ffs |
| 16:17.13 | ``Erik | no fucking wonder shit is fucking broken, those fucking fucktards |
| 16:17.14 | jack- | thanks! |
| 16:17.22 | jack- | don't swear ;) |
| 16:17.39 | ``Erik | sorry, just realized why my ssh keys weren't working. orgnizational retardation. |
| 16:17.59 | brlcad | jack-: you will have to tweak the build to get adrt to compile, it's not been integrated for a seamless compile yet |
| 16:18.12 | jack- | oh, i see |
| 16:18.15 | brlcad | i.e. you'll have to override the flags to get things to link, for example |
| 16:18.23 | jack- | alright |
| 16:18.29 | jack- | thanks for the warning :) |
| 16:18.40 | brlcad | unless you happen to have stuff in exactly the same place justin did when he last committed.. ;) |
| 16:19.01 | brlcad | there are some hard-coded paths and other assumptions |
| 16:19.10 | jack- | hehe ok |
| 16:19.19 | brlcad | if you're making a release distribution, you can leave adrt out of it without really any impact |
| 16:19.33 | jack- | ok |
| 16:19.33 | brlcad | adrt isn't installed in our own binary releases yet even |
| 16:19.41 | jack- | alright :) |
| 16:20.51 | ``Erik | ohyeah, jack, the tcl/tk stuff... it doesn't quite work right if you use the system tcl/tk due to path issues... so at the moment (unless something has changed recently), you'll need to force it to build the included tcl and tk... |
| 16:21.03 | jack- | oh |
| 16:21.06 | jack- | i wondered already |
| 16:21.23 | jack- | because it recognizes and links to my libtcl, but builds its own libtk |
| 16:22.10 | ``Erik | http://www.freebsd.org/cgi/cvsweb.cgi/ports/cad/brlcad/ <-- the freebsd port stuff |
| 16:22.12 | brlcad | if you run into a problem, recompile with --enable-almost-everything |
| 16:22.22 | *** join/#brlcad Twingy (n=justin@74.92.144.217) | |
| 16:22.24 | ``Erik | you might get some clues out of the makefile |
| 16:22.29 | jack- | ok |
| 16:22.32 | brlcad | that will remove the external dependencies |
| 16:22.51 | jack- | if i do --without-sdl, it will only disable adrt right? |
| 16:22.57 | brlcad | there's even a few tools in the dist named after you |
| 16:23.00 | brlcad | g-jack |
| 16:23.01 | brlcad | jack-g |
| 16:23.06 | ``Erik | at the moment, only adrt/isst uses sdl, yeah |
| 16:23.08 | jack- | noticed already ;) |
| 16:23.12 | brlcad | heh |
| 16:23.40 | brlcad | you should need to enable/disable it |
| 16:24.04 | brlcad | adrt will be automatically disabled if it doesn't find what it needs .. and if it's trying, then --disable-adrt |
| 16:24.17 | jack- | ok |
| 16:24.22 | ``Erik | --disable-adrt-build |
| 16:24.29 | brlcad | same flag |
| 16:24.41 | ``Erik | okie, *shrug* |
| 16:24.49 | jack- | --without-sdl works too, i really don't mind skipping adrt/isst if it's that unimportant |
| 16:24.57 | brlcad | (lots of aliases, so one doesn't have to care) |
| 16:25.18 | brlcad | it'll be cool/good to get adrt working with the default build |
| 16:25.23 | brlcad | but nobody has done that yet |
| 16:25.34 | jack- | include splash.h and someone might succeed ;) |
| 16:27.09 | brlcad | you have to be pretty familiar with resolving symbols and linking software to fix it .. your random compiling user does not know much about that and I'd rather not be inundated with support requests |
| 16:27.27 | brlcad | regardless, the splash.h was just fixed (/me points up at CIA message) |
| 16:27.31 | jack- | that's what fink is for, don't worry |
| 16:27.43 | jack- | the users will only but me, since i'm $MAINTAINER |
| 16:27.49 | jack- | *bug |
| 16:28.42 | brlcad | glad someone is putting it into fink.. thanks :) |
| 16:28.58 | jack- | had to autoreconf brlcad anyway, -undefined dynamic_lookup is way too dirty ;) |
| 16:29.06 | jack- | but with autoreconf it builds like a charm |
| 16:29.33 | brlcad | ahh, you mean from that source dist |
| 16:29.38 | jack- | yeah |
| 16:29.45 | jack- | brlcad7.8.4.tbz |
| 16:30.29 | jack- | (there's no automatism in fink yet, for checking out cvs/svn repos to get source) |
| 16:33.03 | jack- | if you're interested, i'll show you what i had to do to get it to build |
| 16:33.27 | brlcad | in a bit, sure.. have to run out for a little while though |
| 16:33.27 | jack- | PatchScript: << |
| 16:33.27 | jack- | autoreconf -fvi |
| 16:33.27 | jack- | perl -pi -e "s,-g -O,-O,g;s,-O2,-Os,g;s,-O3,-Os,g;s,/[s]w,%p,g;" configure |
| 16:33.27 | jack- | perl -pi -e "s,-all_load,,g;" configure aclocal.m4 |
| 16:33.28 | jack- | perl -pi -e "s,/usr/local,%p,g;s,-lpython2.4,-L%p/lib/python2.4/config -lpython2.4,g" src/adrt/isst/master/Makefile.in |
| 16:33.31 | jack- | perl -pi -e 's,ac_default_prefix=/usr/local,ac_default_prefix=%p,;s,search_dir="/usr/local",search_dir="/fart",' configure |
| 16:33.33 | brlcad | or not :) |
| 16:33.34 | jack- | << |
| 16:33.36 | jack- | ok |
| 16:34.09 | jack- | ConfigureParams: --mandir=%p/share/man --with-extra-includes=%p/include --with-extra-libs=%p/lib --disable-dependency-tracking --with-x --with-sdl --with-python --with-jdk --with-opengl --enable-proe-plugin-build --enable-unigraphics-build --enable-optimized --enable-progress --disable-debug --libdir=%p/lib/brlcad/lib --bindir=%p/lib/brlcad/bin --includedir=%p/lib/brlcad/include |
| 16:34.37 | jack- | (that way, the huge bunch of binaries/libs doesn't collide with other fink packages like skencil, tcltk etc) |
| 16:36.11 | brlcad | erm, wouldn't the first perl be achieved with a configure CFLAGS? second isn't necessary without adrt, third should be achieved using --prefix? |
| 16:36.47 | brlcad | some of the options you've added won't fly too |
| 16:37.10 | jack- | the first...could be, yeah..but i need to replace the hardcoded /sw with the fink prefix of $USER |
| 16:37.11 | brlcad | dependency tracking is automatically disabled for non-cvs builds |
| 16:38.00 | brlcad | all the --with flags are auto-detected and really would probably be best left off regardless with maybe the exception of with-opengl |
| 16:38.10 | jack- | 3rd can be removed without adrt, true of course |
| 16:38.19 | brlcad | you don't want the proe and unigraphics modules, you don't have the developer toolkits to link them |
| 16:38.29 | jack- | i just want to make sure it builds the same on every user's system ;) |
| 16:38.36 | jack- | ok |
| 16:38.56 | brlcad | --enable-almost-everything is the best to ensure it builds the same ;) |
| 16:39.06 | jack- | alright, thanks |
| 16:39.17 | jack- | just sounded too fuzzy for me, i guess ;) |
| 16:39.25 | brlcad | that will turn on compilation of all our external dependencies so there are no external requirements |
| 16:39.37 | brlcad | --enable-everything if you want to be brief |
| 16:39.42 | brlcad | but it's the same thing |
| 16:40.00 | brlcad | it just can't enable things like the proe and unigraphics modules, so its .. "almost" everything |
| 16:40.23 | brlcad | there's a list in configure.ac if you really care, but the flag's intent is what you wanted |
| 16:40.26 | jack- | i see |
| 16:44.46 | clock_ | Can I run mged under vnc to make an instruction video? |
| 16:45.39 | brlcad | don't see why not, but you don't need vnc for that.. there are several screen capture apps that dump to video |
| 16:49.05 | clock_ | which? |
| 16:49.16 | ``Erik | hrmph, I would IMAGINE that if some form of hardware rasterization is being used (opengl, hw 2d accel), such an app would have to do something to extract the image or info to reconstruct the image from the cards frame buffer... ? |
| 16:49.35 | ``Erik | (does any accelerated ogl program display through vnc?) |
| 16:49.46 | clock_ | intiailizing and backgrounding please wait |
| 16:50.05 | ``Erik | you should at least get decorations, heh |
| 16:50.16 | clock_ | Xlib: extension GLX missing on :1.0. Xlib: extension GLX missiong on :1.0. ogl_open: Can't gen an appropriate visual. Done. |
| 16:50.28 | clock_ | that's what I get when I run mged in vncviewer |
| 16:51.18 | clock_ | no windows, no decorations nothing |
| 16:51.28 | clock_ | Just these messages are printed and I get back to the prompt./ |
| 16:51.46 | clock_ | I have an unsatisfied feeling from that error message. |
| 16:52.42 | ``Erik | that's an X error, in your X config file, you need the GLX extension |
| 16:56.09 | brlcad | or you need to recompile mged without opengl |
| 16:56.42 | brlcad | and just stick to the X11 display manager (--without-opengl will do the trick, iirc) |
| 16:56.47 | clock_ | Can I do it without recompiling opengl? |
| 16:56.55 | clock_ | I don't want to disable opengl for my real display |
| 16:56.55 | brlcad | only in classic mode |
| 16:57.04 | brlcad | mged -c .. then select X instead of ogl |
| 16:57.12 | ``Erik | heh |
| 16:57.16 | brlcad | but you'll be missing the menus |
| 16:57.23 | ``Erik | I strongly doubt that's what he really wants in making a graphical tutorial |
| 16:57.24 | ``Erik | :) |
| 16:57.57 | brlcad | clock_: disabling opengl in mged doesn't remove any functionality, it'll look and behave identical |
| 16:58.21 | brlcad | it's just whether it draws using X11 calls or OpenGL calls internally in brl-cad's display manager library |
| 16:58.33 | clock_ | unfortunately, mged -c shows only 1 pane instead of 4 |
| 16:58.37 | clock_ | and no menu |
| 16:58.47 | brlcad | yep, that's classic mode |
| 16:58.57 | clock_ | mged --without-opengl doesn't work |
| 16:59.01 | brlcad | no no |
| 16:59.04 | brlcad | it's a configure option |
| 16:59.08 | brlcad | you'd have to recompile |
| 16:59.10 | clock_ | aha |
| 16:59.19 | clock_ | can I run without recompile under vnc while retaining the menus? |
| 16:59.40 | brlcad | the tcl/tk interface isn't changeable at run-time like the classic mode -- it's compiled for only one display manager |
| 16:59.55 | brlcad | only if you install GLX |
| 17:00.07 | clock_ | what is GLX? Does it make my vnc support opengl? |
| 17:00.16 | ``Erik | GLX is how X talks opengl |
| 17:00.36 | clock_ | and if I install GLX will I be able to run mged under vnc with the menus? |
| 17:00.49 | ``Erik | in your X config file... you should have a Modules section |
| 17:01.01 | ``Erik | and in that should be: Load "glx" |
| 17:01.07 | clock_ | There is Load "glx" |
| 17:01.11 | ``Erik | hum |
| 17:01.11 | clock_ | so why doesn't it work? |
| 17:01.17 | ``Erik | do any other opengl programs work via vnc? |
| 17:01.28 | clock_ | how can I figure if a program is opengl? |
| 17:01.30 | ``Erik | 'gears' for example |
| 17:01.42 | clock_ | I don't have gears |
| 17:01.46 | clock_ | clock@kestrel:~$ gears |
| 17:01.46 | clock_ | bash: gears: command not found |
| 17:02.33 | clock_ | what other program needs opengl? |
| 17:02.50 | clock_ | hehe I found glxgears |
| 17:03.00 | ``Erik | woops, glxgears, yeah |
| 17:03.16 | clock_ | No glxgears don't work under vnc, just tried |
| 17:03.28 | clock_ | glx extension missing, can't get double-buffered RGB visual |
| 17:04.06 | clock_ | but never mind the recording program is crap anyway |
| 17:04.15 | clock_ | I managed to make one video explaining how to use gschem |
| 17:04.26 | clock_ | but when I tried with links, it always crashed halfway in the transcoding |
| 17:04.43 | clock_ | once it said the file it generated itself contains some invalid data, second time it crashed on X error |
| 17:04.55 | clock_ | vnc2swf also crashes every couple of minutes, not really usable |
| 17:05.14 | jack- | brlcad: which sdk's are required to build the proe and unigraphics modules? are they open/free? |
| 17:05.22 | clock_ | http://ronja.twibright.com/video/gschem.avi that's what I made |
| 17:05.59 | jack- | i mean, it seems to build fine with the stuff enabled, there are no link problems |
| 17:06.04 | jack- | so what do i need? |
| 17:06.21 | clock_ | and if I build --without-opengl, will it be also without the menus? |
| 17:07.03 | ``Erik | yes |
| 17:07.11 | clock_ | sucks |
| 17:07.33 | jack- | brb |
| 17:07.33 | ``Erik | jack: the proe and unigraphics libs need propeitary libraries which are very much NOT free |
| 17:07.40 | jack- | oh |
| 17:07.47 | jack- | i see |
| 17:24.37 | clock_ | What other screen capture programs do you know? |
| 17:24.45 | clock_ | Which don't require Windows? |
| 17:27.11 | clock_ | once I think I tried xvidcap but it was disaster |
| 17:27.21 | clock_ | it was capable of like 2 frames per second or so |
| 18:07.22 | jack- | ok, seems to build fine without adrt |
| 18:07.34 | jack- | takes a few hours on my 350mhz crapmac though |
| 18:07.58 | jack- | http://pdb.finkproject.org/pdb/maintainer.php?maintainer=jack@krass.com <- that's me, if you're interested |
| 18:08.21 | jack- | sphinx2 and sphinx3 will pop up there soon-ish, too ;) |
| 18:15.06 | jack- | fn~``Erik: which products are the proe/unigraphics libs bundled with? |
| 18:15.14 | jack- | are they available for macos x? |
| 18:17.44 | ``Erik | uhm, pro/e has a whole slew of pieces, I THINK just the 'sdk tools' part is needed to build teh converter? they're at, I think, ptc.com |
| 18:17.49 | ``Erik | unigraphics, I'm not sure on :/ |
| 18:19.57 | ``Erik | <-- never touched 'em, brlcad has probably messed with them some... |
| 18:21.34 | jack- | ok, thx |
| 18:22.02 | jack- | might package the pro/e sdk too, if the license lets me |
| 18:22.21 | ``Erik | I think the pro/e sdk is a few thousand bucks :( |
| 18:22.28 | jack- | argh, ok:p |
| 18:22.42 | ``Erik | and it might only be irix and linux |
| 18:22.46 | ``Erik | *shrug* |
| 18:22.47 | ``Erik | oh |
| 18:22.49 | ``Erik | and windows |
| 18:22.49 | ``Erik | heh |
| 18:22.55 | jack- | of course :P |
| 18:23.44 | jack- | everything that builds on linux is portable to darwin, almost |
| 18:23.56 | jack- | unless it's using shitloads of linuxisms like procfs |
| 18:24.19 | ``Erik | hmmmm |
| 18:24.31 | ``Erik | their sdk won't be source available... |
| 18:25.25 | jack- | ok, no proe plugin for my users then |
| 18:25.34 | jack- | no, we don't |
| 18:31.07 | jack- | can i import old faceted models at all, without adrt? |
| 18:31.18 | jack- | stuff like softimage, wavefront, lightwave, imagine etc etc |
| 18:32.54 | ``Erik | hrm, I see imports for dxf (autocad), ply (standford?) |
| 18:33.25 | ``Erik | elysium neutral |
| 18:33.39 | jack- | dxf is ok already, thanks |
| 18:33.43 | ``Erik | exports for obj (wavefront), ... |
| 18:33.55 | jack- | there are tons of converters for *->dxf, so it should be fine |
| 18:34.08 | ``Erik | okie :) |
| 18:34.41 | jack- | think it's bad if i let it link to fink's libtcl? |
| 18:35.24 | jack- | we'll see if it runs :) |
| 18:35.26 | ``Erik | if you do, then mged won't start right, it'll complain about missing the core .tcl files |
| 18:35.36 | ``Erik | at least, that was my experience a bit ago... |
| 18:35.36 | jack- | oh |
| 18:35.41 | jack- | ok, i'll see :) |
| 18:35.51 | ``Erik | one of these days, either brlcad or I will get around to fixing that, heh |
| 18:36.05 | jack- | :) |
| 18:36.24 | jack- | doesn't hurt to use zlib, libpng etc if the stuff is there already, right |
| 18:37.35 | jack- | but it's sad, i want adrt to work too hehe |
| 18:37.36 | ``Erik | no, zlib png and urt work fine |
| 18:37.54 | jack- | include splash.h with the next tarball and it should build OK |
| 18:38.01 | ``Erik | didja take a look at http://www.freebsd.org/cgi/cvsweb.cgi/ports/cad/brlcad/Makefile?rev=1.18&content-type=text/x-cvsweb-markup ? |
| 18:38.11 | jack- | nope |
| 18:38.47 | jack- | i see :) |
| 18:38.55 | ``Erik | it's the freebsd port file... shows all the useful dependancies and flags and shtuff |
| 18:39.11 | jack- | jove gets disabled automatically here, since it's in fink and installed already |
| 18:39.25 | jack- | libpng seems to work too..we'll see |
| 18:40.57 | ``Erik | brlcad includes a copy of jove that will try to build if emacs isn't handy |
| 18:41.06 | ``Erik | cuz some dipshits have a thing against us vi guys |
| 18:41.11 | jack- | yeah, i figured :) |
| 18:41.27 | jack- | but it's np, jove is an own package in fink already |
| 18:41.36 | jack- | since not everyone who needs it wants a full emacs install |
| 18:42.51 | jack- | i might package sxemacs in a bit, people tell me it's the best of all forks |
| 18:42.52 | ``Erik | fbsd has editors/jove too... but if a user wants an editor, they'll install an editor, I don't think a cad package should require emacs/jove |
| 18:43.07 | ``Erik | <-- quit happy in vim :) |
| 18:43.09 | jack- | since i have no intention of ever using emacs, i have no idea ;) |
| 18:43.12 | jack- | yeah, same here |
| 18:43.15 | jack- | vim rules |
| 18:43.15 | ``Erik | some like nedit, some are happy in nano |
| 18:43.38 | ``Erik | that's why I put --disable-jove in my port file |
| 18:43.50 | jack- | i like kate for some things ;) hehe |
| 18:43.55 | jack- | there are too many editors |
| 18:45.12 | jack- | if i enjoy playing with brlcad, maybe i'll hack adrst/isst to use kde libs instead of sdl |
| 18:45.18 | jack- | but that smells like lots of work ;) |
| 18:45.25 | jack- | heh |
| 18:45.33 | jack- | the linking is fine :) |
| 18:45.34 | ``Erik | ewie, kde |
| 18:45.48 | ``Erik | the point of isst was to give an almost video game like interface |
| 18:45.56 | jack- | oh, i see |
| 18:46.04 | jack- | sdl is a good choice then, sure thing |
| 18:46.05 | ``Erik | for engineering visualization |
| 18:46.22 | ``Erik | engineering/analysis |
| 18:46.23 | jack- | but macosx/fink-sdl means no x11, it's cocoa-native |
| 18:46.43 | jack- | so if i want to have it all on my x11 desktop, i need to change things for adrt and isst |
| 18:46.49 | ``Erik | hum, I think isst has no dependancy on X? I don't remember |
| 18:47.02 | jack- | no, only on sdl :) that's what i mean |
| 18:47.10 | ``Erik | *shrug* |
| 18:47.57 | jack- | well, i'm glad it doesn't try to build its own sdl at least :P |
| 18:48.06 | jack- | since our sdl is majorly hacked |
| 18:48.24 | jack- | please don't :) |
| 18:48.42 | jack- | opengl is np, runs fine within x11 here |
| 18:48.45 | jack- | sdl doesn't |
| 18:48.49 | ``Erik | there's a variant of brlcad that runs on aqua-tk iirc |
| 18:49.02 | ``Erik | excuse me, BRL-CAD |
| 18:49.03 | ``Erik | heh |
| 18:49.06 | *** join/#brlcad docelic (i=docelic@ri01-029.dialin.iskon.hr) | |
| 18:49.11 | jack- | :) |
| 18:49.57 | jack- | so happy i got the whole bunch to link at least |
| 18:50.07 | ``Erik | brlcad runs soley on korean food and mt dew o.O |
| 18:50.08 | ``Erik | :D |
| 18:50.37 | jack- | after patching a lot of Makefile.in files with -Wl,-undefined,dynamic_lookup |
| 18:50.53 | jack- | a voice said "dude, why don't you try autoreconfing the shit?" |
| 18:51.06 | jack- | and woops, all problems were gone |
| 18:51.17 | ``Erik | heh |
| 18:52.06 | ``Erik | couldn't' feed it through sed to make all the "patches"? |
| 18:52.26 | jack- | perl -pi -e == sed |
| 18:52.42 | jack- | does exactly the same, just slightly faster |
| 18:52.56 | ``Erik | provided the system has perl on it, sure |
| 18:53.00 | jack- | yeah |
| 18:53.15 | jack- | it's a core macosx component, and fink itself is perl code too |
| 18:53.29 | jack- | so it's something i just don't have to worry about, when packaging stuff for fink |
| 18:53.50 | jack- | ! :P |
| 18:53.57 | jack- | i like perl |
| 18:54.02 | ``Erik | I don't :) |
| 18:54.06 | jack- | it's far from human readable, ok |
| 18:54.10 | jack- | but mighty and useful |
| 18:54.29 | ``Erik | it's duct tape for unix *shrug* |
| 18:54.58 | jack- | yeah |
| 18:54.58 | ``Erik | 99.9999% of it's utility is for when the person using it doesn't know awk and sed well enough |
| 18:54.58 | jack- | there are moments when you just NEED duct tape, aren't there |
| 18:54.59 | jack- | haha .) |
| 18:55.07 | jack- | i prefer perl solely for speed reasons |
| 18:55.17 | ``Erik | and the minute you try to do something beyond a one-liner, it gets horribly ugly, unreadable, unmaintainable, ... |
| 18:55.20 | jack- | but when i have to do something more sophisticated, i still use awk |
| 18:55.26 | jack- | (and bc, etc etc) |
| 18:55.55 | ``Erik | that's, uh... two tiny things now... :) |
| 18:56.00 | jack- | :p |
| 18:56.08 | ``Erik | since, uh, '83 |
| 18:56.16 | jack- | hehe |
| 18:56.32 | jack- | i "dislike" other stuff lots more |
| 18:56.36 | ``Erik | one was just a convenient way to diddle with an sql rdbms that lacked real sql capabilities... stupid mysql |
| 18:56.40 | jack- | like python, ruby, tcl |
| 18:56.48 | ``Erik | I like ruby |
| 18:56.58 | jack- | why do i need 100 scripting languages on a system? ;) |
| 18:56.58 | ``Erik | not tcl... d'no python *shrug* |
| 18:57.04 | jack- | perl can do it all, or could |
| 18:57.05 | ``Erik | you don't |
| 18:57.06 | jack- | :P |
| 18:57.07 | ``Erik | get rid of perl |
| 18:57.10 | ``Erik | and just use something decent |
| 18:57.11 | ``Erik | like ruby |
| 18:57.13 | ``Erik | or scheme |
| 18:57.30 | jack- | or lisp, right? :) |
| 18:57.32 | ``Erik | gauche has some slickassed hooks in unix land and is pretty dang snappy |
| 18:57.39 | ``Erik | lisp is a big heavy |
| 18:57.45 | jack- | j/k |
| 18:57.56 | jack- | lisp is emacsfreak shit, to me |
| 18:58.03 | jack- | i'll never use it, i guess |
| 18:58.19 | ``Erik | emacs lisp is an entirely different language than cl |
| 18:58.23 | ``Erik | radiaclly different |
| 18:58.48 | ``Erik | the notion of fundamenal things like 'scope' isn't even the same |
| 18:58.58 | jack- | true, ok |
| 19:01.04 | jack- | curious to see how well things will run now, with a separate libdir/bindir |
| 19:01.28 | jack- | what do you think, which binaries are "essential" enough to symlink them to %p/bin? |
| 19:01.41 | jack- | mged, archer, what else? |
| 19:02.28 | ``Erik | archer isn't important... mged'l be the big one... maybe a script to add /sw/brlcad/bin to the path? |
| 19:02.45 | jack- | DescUsage: << |
| 19:02.45 | jack- | This package has way too many binaries to just pack it all into %p/bin, so it has its own |
| 19:02.45 | jack- | little tree inside %p/lib/%n. Suggested way of using it, on the command line: |
| 19:02.45 | jack- | cd %p/lib/%n/bin;export PATH=.:$PATH |
| 19:02.45 | jack- | << |
| 19:02.52 | jack- | ;) |
| 19:02.58 | ``Erik | and set up the right environment variables |
| 19:03.02 | ``Erik | like BRLCAD_ROOT |
| 19:03.05 | jack- | maybe i'll symlink none, and leave it that way |
| 19:03.06 | jack- | oh |
| 19:03.15 | jack- | that's needed? thanks |
| 19:03.31 | ``Erik | (it kinda expects to be somewhere like /usr/brlcad or /usr/local/brlcad .. maybe /sw/brlcad ... :) btu it expects to be in its own universe) |
| 19:03.45 | jack- | will make things easy for users if all parts read+respect that, cool |
| 19:04.01 | jack- | %p/lib/brlcad here |
| 19:04.17 | ``Erik | so the librarys are in /sw/lib/brlcad/lib/ ? |
| 19:04.20 | jack- | fink really dislikes when packages make dirs right in its root path |
| 19:04.23 | jack- | yeah, exactly |
| 19:04.25 | ``Erik | okie |
| 19:04.36 | ``Erik | *shrug* :) whatever works |
| 19:04.41 | jack- | :) |
| 19:04.51 | jack- | can't wait to render the bench pics finally |
| 19:04.52 | jack- | hehe |
| 19:04.55 | ``Erik | did you try installing it without fink so it can spew in /usr/brlcad ? |
| 19:05.03 | jack- | nope |
| 19:05.04 | ``Erik | and see the four hundred and something binaries in /usr/brlcad/bin/ ? |
| 19:05.17 | jack- | i did build it already, yeah :) |
| 19:05.31 | jack- | tons of binaries, some of which even collide with fink stuff |
| 19:05.43 | ``Erik | yeah, that's why it wants its own world |
| 19:05.44 | jack- | that's why i originally thought ok, own universe for this stuff |
| 19:05.48 | ``Erik | libraries collide, too |
| 19:05.53 | jack- | yup |
| 19:05.57 | jack- | libtk ;p |
| 19:06.06 | ``Erik | m |
| 19:06.07 | ``Erik | um |
| 19:06.12 | ``Erik | brlcad native libraries, even |
| 19:06.27 | jack- | kinda funky that it likes fink's libtcl, but not its libtk |
| 19:06.39 | jack- | maybe i'll let it build everything indeed |
| 19:06.39 | ``Erik | libbn or libbu, one of thsoe two, conflicts with something really common, like a lib in openssl or something |
| 19:06.50 | jack- | i see |
| 19:07.04 | jack- | but fink's openssl has its own libdir as well |
| 19:07.38 | jack- | (since there are 3 of them ... .96 .97 and .98.somealphaorbeta |
| 19:13.36 | jack- | you might want to use a newer libtool, in some future release :) |
| 19:14.05 | jack- | was the only reason why i needed to autoreconf the stuff |
| 19:15.00 | jack- | 1.5.22, weird |
| 19:15.15 | jack- | oh wait, after the autoreconf |
| 19:15.19 | jack- | one sec :p |
| 19:21.48 | jack- | root# brlcad-7.8.4/libtool --version |
| 19:21.48 | jack- | ltmain.sh (GNU libtool) 1.5 (1.1220 2003/04/05 19:32:58) |
| 19:22.09 | ``Erik | still a 1.5 *shrug* |
| 19:22.24 | jack- | yeah, but would you recommend 1.5a as well? :P |
| 19:22.30 | jack- | you know what i'm saying |
| 19:22.36 | jack- | 1.5.22 is about 2 years newer |
| 19:23.31 | jack- | 2.5, to be precise |
| 19:23.49 | ``Erik | <-- tends to be cautious about updating important things... reads changelogs and decides if he'll upgrade... given no problems being reported with that libtool, it doesn't seem important to upgrade just for the sake of staying on the bleeding edge |
| 19:23.59 | jack- | we (fink) got quite a few libtool fixes done by upstream, meanwhile ;) other folks as well |
| 19:24.21 | jack- | 1.5.22 isn't bleeding edge :) 1.6-svn-testmeplease is |
| 19:24.34 | jack- | 1.5.22 is the polished, perfect version of 1.5 |
| 19:24.56 | ``Erik | whoa, wait... |
| 19:25.13 | ``Erik | did you just call a gnu tool "polished" and "perfect"??? |
| 19:25.17 | ``Erik | :> |
| 19:25.20 | jack- | :P |
| 19:25.28 | jack- | as much as it can be, at least |
| 19:25.40 | jack- | there happened a LOT of fixing from 1.5a to 1.5.22, believe me |
| 19:27.18 | jack- | and btw, take my problem report serious plz :) the shipped libtool fucks up badly on osX |
| 19:34.27 | jack- | ;) |
| 19:34.43 | jack- | it's one of the most cursed things in #fink, don't worry |
| 19:35.28 | ``Erik | http://sourceforge.net/tracker/?group_id=105292 |
| 19:35.32 | jack- | but you know what, i still like autoconf/automake anyway |
| 19:35.43 | jack- | cause scons, waf and all that shit just sucks donkey balls |
| 19:35.48 | ``Erik | automake is dandy *shrug* |
| 19:36.00 | ``Erik | heh |
| 19:36.11 | ``Erik | brlcad used to use something called "cake" |
| 19:36.24 | ``Erik | <-- got the joy of converting to automake when he was new to the project :) |
| 19:36.29 | jack- | glad you switched ;) |
| 19:36.45 | jack- | thx for that link btw |
| 19:40.27 | clock_ | Do you know that kind if white marker you put over something written with ink and it makes the ink invisible |
| 19:40.43 | clock_ | and when you attempt to write over that place with fountain pen again, it will be also erased? |
| 19:41.22 | jack- | yeah |
| 19:41.29 | jack- | tipp-ex here |
| 19:44.25 | clock_ | no tippex is kinda a lacquer |
| 19:44.36 | clock_ | this is what contains trasparent fluid that chemically reacts with the ink |
| 19:44.41 | clock_ | so the paper looks like new |
| 19:44.55 | clock_ | but if you write over it, it will react again and the pen will not leave a trace in that place |
| 19:47.13 | jack- | oh |
| 19:47.15 | jack- | i see |
| 19:47.38 | jack- | doesn't work with all inks i bet, but nice anyway |
| 19:47.51 | jack- | good for fooling people |
| 19:48.52 | clock_ | it works with the ordinary ink |
| 19:49.05 | clock_ | looks like a permanent marker, but the tip is white and moist |
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| 21:34.49 | Maloeran | Cool, there's an U.S. patent on the concept of making a cat chase the light spot of a hand-held laser |
| 23:43.33 | brlcad | mm.. korean food and mt dew |
| 23:44.00 | ``Erik | o.O |
| 23:46.47 | brlcad | shouldn't set or need to set BRLCAD_ROOT unless it's relocated |
| 23:55.02 | ``Erik | when's the next optimal time to break thing horribly, er, I mean, uh, the next slush for a release? |
| 00:55.19 | ``Erik | ok, fine, the time is now :D |
| 01:14.16 | brlcad | planning on 9th/10th |
| 01:24.53 | ``Erik | chad vader is awesome o.O |
| 01:24.59 | ``Erik | http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3CiW838wNiM |
| 01:25.13 | ``Erik | and, uh, hrm, my commit didn't get a msg here |
| 01:26.19 | brlcad | cia's being a little slow today |
| 01:26.31 | brlcad | like 40 min or so slow |
| 02:00.48 | jack- | how would i get brlcad to respect $LIBDIR even for the lib/tk8.4/*.tcl files? |
| 02:01.23 | jack- | it built perfectly now, but it wants to overwrite stuff in %p/lib/tk8.4 |
| 02:01.31 | jack- | dpkg doesn't like that ;) |
| 02:02.51 | ``Erik | heh |
| 02:03.29 | ``Erik | ummm, modify source? heh, like I said, dude, it wants to live in its own universe :D |
| 02:03.45 | jack- | i want it to, as well ;) |
| 02:04.09 | jack- | but i'd want the man files to go into %p/share/man, that's fine |
| 02:04.12 | jack- | and so on |
| 02:04.26 | jack- | just bindir and libdir ought to be respected |
| 02:05.00 | brlcad | jack-: sounds like something amiss in a libtk Makefile.am |
| 02:05.02 | ``Erik | but it needs the scripts in the right place, too |
| 02:05.25 | jack- | ok, let me check |
| 02:05.37 | jack- | maybe i'll have to use --oldlibdir or something freaky :) |
| 02:06.10 | jack- | Elapsed installation time: 32 minutes, 4 seconds |
| 02:06.10 | jack- | Elapsed time since configuration: 5 hours, 41 minutes, 35 seconds |
| 02:06.20 | jack- | just so you know what kind of crapmac i have |
| 02:06.22 | brlcad | tcl/tk has it's own internal logic for searching for and finding it's resource files, so moving them around from the defaults may break things at run-time |
| 02:06.39 | jack- | ok |
| 02:06.39 | brlcad | that is pretty slow |
| 02:06.45 | brlcad | about an 800 G4? |
| 02:06.48 | jack- | no |
| 02:06.52 | ``Erik | 350mhz? |
| 02:06.54 | jack- | 350mhz g4 ;) |
| 02:06.56 | ``Erik | :) |
| 02:06.56 | jack- | yeah |
| 02:06.59 | brlcad | ah |
| 02:07.00 | ``Erik | (he said it earlier) |
| 02:07.09 | brlcad | well, 32 minutes isn't a full build on a 350 :) |
| 02:07.21 | jack- | it's only the install |
| 02:07.27 | brlcad | ahh, right |
| 02:07.29 | brlcad | missed that |
| 02:07.29 | jack- | Elapsed time since configuration: 5 hours, 41 minutes, 35 seconds |
| 02:07.40 | jack- | that's the build after configure, including the install |
| 02:07.49 | ``Erik | it'd make people more careful about their code and build systems :/ |
| 02:08.01 | jack- | :P |
| 02:08.26 | jack- | does a 120mhz cyrix need a fan? ;) |
| 02:08.40 | ``Erik | jack: oh yeah, old cyrix ran hot |
| 02:14.42 | jack- | --enable-everything --without-sdl will let it build everything except for adrt/isst, right? |
| 02:15.30 | jack- | let me know when 7.8.5 is done, plz :) |
| 02:15.46 | jack- | no reason to skip adrt for my maccies |
| 02:17.20 | jack- | if there's still a noteworthy update frequency, sure :) |
| 02:17.42 | ``Erik | it's SUPPOSED to be monthly |
| 02:17.53 | jack- | sweet |
| 02:18.06 | ``Erik | but pointy hairs have intervened lately, so that hasn't been realized in a bit :) |
| 02:18.09 | jack- | i'll sign up when you did the setup :) |
| 02:18.11 | jack- | hehe |
| 02:18.14 | jack- | no worries |
| 02:19.59 | brlcad | ``Erik: there already is a brlcad-announce |
| 02:20.04 | brlcad | it's just called brlcad-news |
| 02:21.41 | brlcad | and releasing by 9/10th is for this month |
| 02:21.49 | brlcad | it was last month that was missed |
| 02:22.44 | brlcad | the window is within the first two weeks, unless there is some other need that presses for something off-schedule |
| 02:23.15 | brlcad | jack-: good question |
| 02:23.29 | ``Erik | okie, I just looked at the archive for -news and didn't see an announce in the last, uh, ... year |
| 02:23.30 | brlcad | on the whole, probably.. but it'll likely break a couple of the tools |
| 02:23.40 | jack- | hrm |
| 02:23.52 | jack- | so i should specify only $PREFIX? |
| 02:24.08 | brlcad | ahh yeah.. I only send the news announcement when it's a bigger push |
| 02:24.09 | jack- | but i want the manpages reachable easily, without playing with MANPATH |
| 02:24.20 | brlcad | there's not been a full binary release probably since the last -news |
| 02:24.37 | brlcad | that's when they generally get sent so the announcement can say that binaries for all plats are up |
| 02:24.58 | jack- | feel free to put a fink-pdb-brlcad link onto your website in a bit, when i'm done |
| 02:25.16 | ``Erik | ok, mebbe there should be an announce list for the package maintainers... :D |
| 02:25.16 | jack- | i should be able to get it migrated to stable quickly, then we'll have it bindisted too |
| 02:25.24 | ``Erik | so I won't be in your office every other day asking when the next release is |
| 02:25.32 | ``Erik | and we dont' have to remember jack's email... |
| 02:25.33 | ``Erik | and ... |
| 02:25.37 | brlcad | jack-: that's what I'd recommend for now, only setting prefix .. unless you want to patch up the couple tools that will likely break (mged, benchmark, and brlman come to mind) |
| 02:25.54 | ``Erik | (of course, making freshmeat part of the release checklist would satisfy that, we could just subscribe) |
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| 02:25.55 | jack- | ok |
| 02:26.20 | jack- | but it will still find and link to x libs, opengl, python etc right? |
| 02:26.20 | brlcad | jack- can be added to the dev notification list in HACKING if he wants to be notified |
| 02:26.33 | jack- | sure, why not |
| 02:26.43 | brlcad | and/or even minor releases could be sent to -news, it's just not come up |
| 02:27.00 | brlcad | freshmeat is already on the release checklist |
| 02:27.11 | jack- | jack@krass.com |
| 02:27.34 | jack- | just put me on some list that will notify me of new releases and stuff |
| 02:28.08 | ``Erik | 7.8.4 didn't get put in fm |
| 02:28.41 | ``Erik | :) |
| 02:28.52 | brlcad | ah, just an oversight |
| 02:28.58 | brlcad | twas minor |
| 02:29.27 | brlcad | you can update it, you know :) |
| 02:30.51 | brlcad | jack-: added |
| 02:30.59 | jack- | thx |
| 02:31.29 | ``Erik | <-- not a project admin on fm |
| 02:33.06 | brlcad | what's your username? |
| 02:33.59 | brlcad | also, regardless.. "Project may be administered by the public" is set to yes |
| 02:34.08 | brlcad | so really anyone can update it |
| 02:35.36 | brlcad | heh, found it.. nice username |
| 02:35.52 | ``Erik | ah, hum |
| 02:35.58 | ``Erik | it is public |
| 02:35.59 | ``Erik | n/m |
| 02:36.00 | ``Erik | :) |
| 02:36.05 | ``Erik | <-- br0ke |
| 02:36.29 | ``Erik | been a long time since I've done a release on fm, heh |
| 02:40.36 | brlcad | s/of/up/ |
| 02:44.19 | ``Erik | <-- just likes givin' ya shit :D |
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| 08:49.15 | jack- | moin clock_ |
| 08:49.37 | jack- | auch brlcad developer? oder eher user? |
| 08:50.29 | clock_ | moin |
| 08:50.31 | clock_ | eher user |
| 08:50.45 | jack- | ok |
| 08:51.04 | jack- | hab dann wohl bald ein paar fragen ;) build muesst bald durch sein |
| 08:51.40 | jack- | ist adrt fuer dich wichtig/cool/nuetzlich? |
| 08:51.47 | jack- | oder gehts auch ohne? |
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| 13:00.52 | brlcad | tag |
| 14:08.11 | Maloeran | Erik, will you be able to assist in identifying the threaded prep bug, today or in the following days? It's impossible for me to reproduce it, might be the fbsd and Linux threads behaving differently, or that I would need 8 cpus instead of 2 cores or 2 cpus |
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| 14:26.04 | ``Erik | don't have access to multicore machines readily today... and the 8 core machine was linux (2.6.9el) |
| 14:26.18 | ``Erik | tomorrow morning I'm going to be in a class |
| 14:26.23 | ``Erik | tomorrow afternoon I should be able to help |
| 14:26.50 | Maloeran | Great, thanks |
| 14:43.22 | brlcad | hehe |
| 15:22.56 | Maloeran | Actually, I may have understood that bug |
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| 16:03.20 | Maloeran | This is both amusing and very sad : telnet towel.blinkenlights.nl |
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| 16:21.15 | ``Erik | nice |
| 16:21.37 | *** join/#brlcad Twingy (n=justin@74.92.144.217) | |
| 17:15.44 | danfalck | anyone here care to help me with an 'Archer' config/use question? |
| 17:17.02 | danfalck | I'll ask in advance |
| 17:17.10 | danfalck | does 'Archer' actually work? |
| 17:18.18 | danfalck | how can I get 'Archer' to find my blt library (blt2.4 I think) and I have also created a symbolic link, just in case...? |
| 17:21.52 | danfalck | I get lots of 'can't find blt' errors when trying to do anything with it |
| 17:22.46 | ``Erik | um, I think it's only been run on windows |
| 17:23.09 | danfalck | ok |
| 17:23.33 | ``Erik | it's a viewer that survice put together, so we don't really maintain it or pay attention to it... was a convenient place for them to dump it |
| 17:23.34 | ``Erik | heh |
| 17:23.40 | danfalck | ok |
| 17:24.10 | danfalck | I'll stick with mged then |
| 17:24.25 | ``Erik | feel free to write a better front-end ;) |
| 17:24.37 | danfalck | I'm kind of thinking about it now |
| 17:25.34 | danfalck | I might do something weird, like link Varkon to brlcad ; ) |
| 17:25.59 | danfalck | use a bunch of os commands and pipes |
| 17:27.33 | danfalck | I am starting to learn Unigraphics NX and I am starting to see that with the right front end, brlcad could do some of the same things |
| 17:27.33 | ``Erik | hrm, kinda like the procdb stuff in brlcad? |
| 17:27.35 | ``Erik | :) |
| 17:28.05 | ``Erik | <-- skimming the varkon page, too bad there're no screenies |
| 17:28.17 | danfalck | I was thinking that it would be cool to do the 2d stuff in varkon and extrude it in brlcad |
| 17:28.47 | danfalck | varkon is fully parametric 2d and 3d surfacing |
| 17:29.08 | danfalck | 2d not being surfacing that is : ) |
| 17:40.54 | danfalck | bbl- going to the shop |
| 17:48.20 | Twingy | hey dan |
| 17:49.45 | danfalck | I'm back |
| 17:49.50 | danfalck | Hi Twingy |
| 17:50.13 | danfalck | how's gcam going? |
| 17:50.17 | Twingy | very good |
| 17:50.26 | Twingy | I just got the windows port done |
| 17:50.37 | Twingy | the pocketing seems to be working now too |
| 17:50.40 | danfalck | cool |
| 17:50.53 | Twingy | I'll have another release next weekend after I get back from alabama |
| 17:51.05 | danfalck | going to Huntsville? |
| 17:51.09 | Twingy | jah |
| 17:51.38 | Twingy | in feb I'm going to spend a couple months on dxf/stl import |
| 17:51.46 | Twingy | then I'll contour pocketing |
| 17:51.55 | Twingy | then pcb/mcb gerber import |
| 17:52.06 | Twingy | then I'll let the community drive the direction |
| 17:52.35 | Twingy | cause at that point I have everything I need to build my stuff |
| 17:52.41 | danfalck | have you had a lot of downloads? |
| 17:52.50 | Twingy | no clue, not keeping track |
| 17:53.03 | Twingy | I'm going to install mrtg later today though |
| 17:53.09 | Twingy | make sure my bandwidth is still ok |
| 17:53.48 | Twingy | the windows port was 3 days of pain |
| 17:54.16 | danfalck | you actually own a windows machine ; ) ? |
| 17:54.22 | Twingy | I've been touch with Taig, I should have a link from their site soon |
| 17:54.48 | Twingy | yes, for the electronics stuff |
| 17:55.01 | Twingy | and under Parallels |
| 17:55.32 | Twingy | I have the Mach-X PIC programmer that has limited linux support, but I'm using it under windows right now |
| 17:56.26 | Twingy | k, I got some baseboard molding I need to put in the kitchen, ttyl |
| 17:56.36 | danfalck | see you later |
| 18:31.06 | Maloeran | Archer is windows only? I thought it was all portable code, tcl/tk and opengl |
| 18:31.58 | Maloeran | I guess I'm just surprised SURVICE never bothered to make it compile on Unix |
| 18:45.21 | brlcad | Maloeran: they have it working on linux too |
| 18:45.39 | brlcad | it is 99% portable code, just not been fixed in cvs for that last percent |
| 18:46.25 | brlcad | the non-portable part is that it supports binary plug-in modules and that bit of loading code is platform specific (and currently only has the hooks for windows and linux) |
| 18:46.45 | Maloeran | Ah, quite good enough |
| 18:57.17 | ``Erik | no it's not |
| 18:57.44 | ``Erik | and it needs to work on a vax11/netbsd for brlcad |
| 18:57.45 | ``Erik | :) |
| 19:10.36 | brlcad | heh |
| 19:14.05 | dtidrow | lol |
| 19:19.00 | ``Erik | heh |
| 19:19.09 | ``Erik | linux isn't even a unix :( it just has some similarities on the surface :( |
| 19:21.13 | *** join/#brlcad danfalck (n=dan@pool-71-111-76-8.ptldor.dsl-w.verizon.net) | |
| 19:22.17 | dtidrow | ``Erik: don't tell SCO that ;-) |
| 19:23.00 | docelic | http://ir.sco.com/calculator.cfm?initialAmnt=5000.00&historic_Month=11&historic_Day=1&historic_Year=2003 |
| 19:25.25 | jack | archer coughs here as well btw :P |
| 19:25.37 | jack | some of the tools have shm issues, but the core runs fine |
| 19:26.03 | dtidrow | docelic: and that 'investment' will soon be totally worthless :-) |
| 19:27.21 | brlcad | jack: it's expected to 'cough' everywhere except windows until its integration is cleaned up (similar to archer) |
| 19:27.36 | jack | i see :) |
| 19:27.38 | brlcad | trivial code fixes, but nobody's done it yet |
| 19:27.58 | brlcad | s/similar to archer/similar to adrt/ |
| 19:28.09 | jack | yeah, figured :) |
| 19:28.39 | jack | i bet adrt would build if i included splash.h, but whatever..up to you to do the next release including that file |
| 19:30.08 | jack | the fb* stuff is probably supposed to stay open until one closes the window, right? ;) |
| 19:30.17 | jack | window pops up here, but closes immediately |
| 19:32.43 | brlcad | actually, no it's not |
| 19:33.20 | brlcad | if you want it to linger, you have to request it (e.g. use -F/dev/Xl or -F/dev/ogll or set FB_FILE env var to /dev/*l etc) |
| 19:33.31 | jack | oh, sweet |
| 19:33.34 | brlcad | or use an fbserv and render into that |
| 19:33.45 | jack | then that stuff probably works properly :) thanks |
| 19:34.41 | danfalck | brlcad, can I ask about sketch and extrusion? |
| 19:35.35 | danfalck | is it possible to import lines and arcs from another application- say a dxf file and then do an extrusion of the closed path? |
| 19:35.37 | brlcad | danfalck: sure .. i'd also commented on archer |
| 19:36.07 | danfalck | sorry, is there an irc log file somewhere? I was offline for a bit. |
| 19:36.21 | brlcad | archer works on linux, just hasn't been tweaked in cvs to build cleanly by default yet, it's 99% portable code .. just has one part that supports loading binary modules that isn't portable (and related to why you get blt errors) |
| 19:36.50 | brlcad | just fyi, in case it matters |
| 19:37.08 | danfalck | <PROTECTED> |
| 19:37.29 | danfalck | I didn't really even know what it was until recently |
| 19:37.55 | danfalck | mged is fine with me though |
| 19:38.02 | brlcad | it's not immediately possible without tweaking the code as it brings in dxf 2D entities in as BRL-CAD NMG entities instead of "sketch" objects .. you can't extrude nmg entities but the converter mod wouldn't be hard at all to make sketchs instead |
| 19:38.58 | danfalck | it would probably be worthwhile to be able to do that |
| 19:39.13 | brlcad | a little better would be to mode the extrude operation to work on the 2D NMG entities too |
| 19:39.19 | danfalck | revolving the closed path would be useful too |
| 19:39.35 | brlcad | that actually used to exist |
| 19:39.53 | brlcad | but well predates me and is no longer in the repository |
| 19:40.24 | brlcad | i've been trying to find out what happened to the revolution support myself... :) |
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| 23:05.56 | *** join/#brlcad ntroutman (n=nathanie@prox.snu.edu) | |
| 23:06.09 | ntroutman | anyone have time for kd-tree questions> |
| 23:07.46 | Maloeran | Just ask |
| 23:08.39 | ``Erik | (odd place to come ask, though) |
| 23:08.40 | ntroutman | if I have a random list of points, and goto create a kd-tree, do I need to sort the list |
| 23:08.53 | ntroutman | hey, I'm trying to find anyroom about raytracing |
| 23:09.10 | docelic | ntroutman: it's not rooms, it's channels |
| 23:09.16 | ntroutman | yeah, yeah, so shoot me |
| 23:09.17 | ``Erik | the act of storing in a kd-tree (or any space partition) infers sorting of some form... |
| 23:09.19 | docelic | and try #blenderchat, then asking from there on |
| 23:09.50 | ntroutman | thanks docelic |
| 23:09.54 | Maloeran | I'm not sure if the blender crowd knows much about raytracing and acceleration structures :) |
| 23:09.58 | ``Erik | heh |
| 23:10.29 | ntroutman | yeah, I'm not sure what channel would be best, as its not really a modeling question, but a programming question |
| 23:10.29 | Maloeran | ntroutman, you don't have to "sort" as such, but you'll need to gather some information on your data to be able to make good decisions on the splitting planes |
| 23:10.42 | ntroutman | Maloeran: |
| 23:11.27 | ntroutman | Maloeran: I think I should be doing a median selection and creating branches based upon the points that lie on either side of the median |
| 23:11.44 | ntroutman | but that would require sorting, wouldn't it, to know which side of a median points fall on |
| 23:11.51 | Maloeran | That wouldn't give too good performance |
| 23:11.57 | ``Erik | not sorting, but a pas to find min and max |
| 23:12.00 | ``Erik | pass |
| 23:12.14 | Maloeran | The cost of traversal of a branch is area*countOfPrimitive plus some constant |
| 23:12.37 | ntroutman | okay, find the median, then create sublist containing the points from either side of the median? |
| 23:12.38 | Maloeran | You want to minimize the traversal cost, isolating empty space or containing the geometry as much as possible |
| 23:12.47 | Maloeran | Not the median, forget the median |
| 23:13.21 | ntroutman | I'm doing photon-mapping, everything I've read said that the points should be partioned by alternating axis based upon a median slection |
| 23:13.35 | ``Erik | medianis non-optimal, but if it's for education, why not, as a starting point? *shrug* |
| 23:14.01 | Maloeran | Ah... Oh, if you want a sub-optimal simple solution, go ahead |
| 23:14.32 | ntroutman | I'll take a better solution assuming its easy enough to implement |
| 23:14.43 | ntroutman | I'm not against learning something |
| 23:16.08 | ntroutman | I want things to be grouped based on euclidian distance, since I have to do a ranged search |
| 23:19.52 | Maloeran | This brings back memories, Twingy? :) |
| 23:20.15 | Twingy | unproductive ones, yes |
| 23:20.43 | ntroutman | lol, well its for an undergrad computer-graphics course |
| 23:21.34 | Twingy | so you're paying some one to get told to implement a flawed algorithm, where's the logic in that? |
| 23:22.28 | ntroutman | actually its a self-picked project, so, uhh, i'm not sure what that makes it, lol |
| 23:22.57 | ntroutman | which part is the flawed algorithm? the photon-mapping or the construction of the kd-tree? |
| 23:23.20 | Maloeran | Both are pretty much flawed from my point of view |
| 23:23.29 | Maloeran | Should still be instructive though |
| 23:23.37 | Twingy | for your current educational state, none, when you are more knowledgeable I'll have a different answer for you |
| 23:24.17 | ntroutman | okay, so we agree that as an undergrad, this is an instructional project, good, so I'm not completely wasting my time |
| 23:24.29 | Twingy | yes, I'll agree with that |
| 23:24.38 | ntroutman | good :-D |
| 23:24.46 | ntroutman | I hate wasting to much of my time |
| 23:24.51 | ntroutman | lol |
| 23:25.31 | ntroutman | anyways, what would be a suggested method of creating the kd-tree if not by the median of the values on a given axis which alternates with each branch? |
| 23:26.07 | Maloeran | As I said, you want to minimize the traversal cost, you want to isolate and contain geometry from empty space |
| 23:26.51 | Maloeran | You can still go with the median initially, and fix later on as some flaws become more obvious |
| 23:27.48 | Maloeran | ( and if you can think of something better than kdtrees, don't be afraid to explore it ) |
| 23:28.26 | ntroutman | isolate geometry from empty space? but we only store photons that have hit geometry and we only search the map when a ray hits geometry. So are you saying that they should be partioned around what geometry they hit, but isn't that done implicitly as they are already spatially close? |
| 23:31.19 | Maloeran | Ah, this is the sorting of photons, not the sorting of primitives for ray/photon intersection |
| 23:32.21 | ntroutman | yeah, i'm just working on collecting the photons in the emitting stage into a kd-tree for searching in the rendering stage latter |
| 23:36.53 | Maloeran | Right. Median splits clearly wouldn't minimize the search time there either, but it's a good first step |
| 23:37.30 | Maloeran | Median splits would be nice if every photon had an equal chance of being used... but it's generally not the case |
| 01:01.00 | Maloeran | I know I have whined about this before, but the C parser of Doxygen sure is broken on many points |
| 01:02.07 | Twingy | but Lee sure seems to love it |
| 01:02.18 | Maloeran | Arrays of function pointers are functions, struct variables with gnu99 __attribute__ are "class methods" ( hello, this is C ) |
| 01:03.14 | Maloeran | It's nice on some aspects, but the parser makes some gross mistakes |
| 01:07.43 | Maloeran | Whenever the data type of something is complex, it thinks it's a function or a method. Oh, and I had Doxygen tell me that for(;;) and if() where undocumented "functions" before |
| 01:11.06 | ``Erik | nice |
| 01:11.21 | ``Erik | if only for() and if() WERE functions in C |
| 01:11.22 | ``Erik | *sigh* |
| 01:12.40 | Maloeran | Lisp is nice, but I'm not against having some fundamental language contructs that are not functions |
| 01:35.56 | ``Erik | http://www.calarts.edu/~jwhite/gbj/SeeHim.html |
| 01:36.10 | ``Erik | lithp and thcheme have language constructs that aren't functions |
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| 16:51.15 | brlcad | ``Erik: you have any 6.2 discs burnt? |
| 17:18.03 | ``Erik | uhmmmmmmmm, no, 6.2 isn't released yet |
| 17:18.21 | ``Erik | it's rc1 |
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| 18:36.22 | ``Erik | mal: fixes rendering, yup, but generation is still effed up |
| 18:36.32 | ``Erik | linux 8core amd64... |
| 18:36.33 | ``Erik | linkListAddPair (listhead0=0x2a95d3a668, listhead1=0x2a95bfe290, step0=0x2a95d3a618, step1=0x2a95bfe238, memblock=0x513bf0) at ../../../RF/prepmodel.c:718 |
| 18:36.34 | ``Erik | 718 if( ( linklist1->used == LINKS_PER_LIST ) ) { |
| 18:36.34 | ``Erik | (gdb) print *linklist1 |
| 18:36.34 | ``Erik | Cannot access memory at address 0x0 |
| 18:37.02 | ``Erik | (and fbsd just sits, no crash) |
| 18:40.45 | Maloeran | Okay, every time or sometimes? |
| 18:42.52 | Maloeran | And fbsd freezes constantly or it's less consistant? I'm just trying to get an idea of what's going on |
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| 18:44.06 | ``Erik | linux: |
| 18:44.07 | ``Erik | 0x0000002a9585ba41 in jobModelPrepStep (engine=0x50aa20, job=Variable "job" is not available. |
| 18:44.07 | ``Erik | ) at ../../../RF/prepmodel.c:1720 |
| 18:44.07 | ``Erik | 1720 if( steplink->edge[axismin] < plane ) { |
| 18:44.47 | Maloeran | Right okay, not too consistent, though I guess it does crash pretty much all the time |
| 18:45.19 | Maloeran | And always in the same pass, okay |
| 18:46.18 | ``Erik | if there's a valid cache, it's all grand... gettin' ~40fps on both the 4 core fbsd and the 8 core linux (hardcoded at 4 threads, I guess) |
| 18:46.58 | ``Erik | hah, linux: Can't attach LWP -1023750857: No such process |
| 18:47.10 | ``Erik | fbsd seems stuck |
| 18:47.11 | Maloeran | Yes, fix rfdemo.c to increase that count, hard-coded #define |
| 18:47.21 | Maloeran | No such process, eh? :) |
| 18:48.47 | Maloeran | I guess I now have some information to figure out this bug |
| 18:50.22 | Maloeran | The more backtrace you can throw at me, the easier I think it would be to see what's happening in there |
| 18:51.17 | ``Erik | 0x0000002a9585ad7f in jobModelPrepEvaluate (engine=0xc4f5d489c4f61b90, job=Variable "job" is not available. |
| 18:51.17 | ``Erik | ) at ../../../RF/prepmodel.c:974 |
| 18:51.17 | ``Erik | 974 } while( --a ); |
| 18:51.19 | ``Erik | wonky |
| 18:51.32 | ``Erik | bt on that is a blown stack |
| 18:51.53 | Maloeran | Groovy |
| 18:52.55 | ``Erik | meh, paste.lisp.org seems to be down |
| 18:53.06 | Maloeran | rafb.net/paste of course |
| 18:53.17 | ``Erik | <-- coudln't remember the url |
| 18:56.10 | ``Erik | http://rafb.net/paste/results/kONUFQ20.html |
| 18:56.24 | ``Erik | those seem to be the 4 cases I get on linux 2.6 amd64 |
| 18:56.51 | Maloeran | Great, thank you |
| 18:56.56 | ``Erik | np |
| 18:57.10 | ``Erik | I have a 2 hour meeting starting in 30 minutes... |
| 18:57.51 | Maloeran | :) Have fun! |
| 19:00.16 | ``Erik | heh |
| 19:00.34 | ``Erik | just letting you know in case you have any modifications you want to see run on multi-cache machines |
| 19:01.56 | ``Erik | hrm, I'm going to try to bump the thread count to something a bit more straining... hope that linux doesn't drop the ball on it... I know it's ok on fbsd and solaris |
| 19:02.25 | ``Erik | heh, gdb might be the problem here :) |
| 19:04.07 | ``Erik | goddamn, it's slugging down ugly :( |
| 19:11.06 | ``Erik | http://rafb.net/paste/results/wJKR5372.html <-- new error |
| 19:11.10 | ``Erik | 128 threads |
| 19:11.28 | ``Erik | that the 'job' variable is unavailable on all the errors is... suspicious |
| 19:19.29 | Maloeran | New error, always the same pass, and consistent with a corruption of the lists of reverse links |
| 19:20.06 | Maloeran | 128 threads, I haven't tried that yet :). I think I can figure out what's going on, the problem has been narrowed a bit |
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| 22:31.01 | brlcad | looks like Maloeran needs some valgrindage |
| 22:31.37 | Maloeran | I can't reproduce the bug, it's of no use ;) |
| 22:31.55 | brlcad | valgrind will still report the memory problems |
| 22:32.36 | brlcad | assuming it's not a platformness but actually just problem being masked by linux behavior |
| 22:33.10 | Maloeran | It's a problem caused by multiple cores not shared the same cache, probably a faulty mutex somewhere |
| 22:33.19 | brlcad | valgrind is very good in what it does, way better than the memory bounds checkers |
| 22:34.36 | Maloeran | Indeed, I'm just skeptical on its ability to catch a bug that requires multiple caches to occur |
| 22:34.52 | Maloeran | Anyway. If I haven't solved this by tomorrow, I'll call a friend to ask to boot his 4 cores desktop on Linux |
| 22:35.53 | brlcad | you've narrowed it down that far for sure, or guessing? :) |
| 22:36.30 | Maloeran | I can never reproduce the bug when it is running on a single core, or dual cores but with shared cache |
| 22:36.59 | brlcad | you mean you can't reproduce the crash |
| 22:38.19 | brlcad | point being that you could run for years on a single-thread single core machine and never see bad behavior, yet there still be a memory problem (that is simply masked by OS or C lib behavior) |
| 22:38.42 | brlcad | running gentoo? |
| 22:38.52 | Maloeran | Of course so, but that memory problem might not be a "problem" in that case just because threads all share the same cache |
| 22:38.55 | Maloeran | Yes |
| 22:40.58 | dtidrow_work | gonna get nasty cold around here tonight :-( |
| 22:41.00 | Maloeran | An unsafe memory instruction might just happen to have a direct memory operand, so you'll never see a problem if threads are executed one at a time on the same cache |
| 22:41.49 | Maloeran | And no debugger could ever figure that out, unless you trigger the bug with threads running on distinct caches |
| 22:42.22 | brlcad | you're already assuming that's the bug too (and maybe it is, but it's generally not good to assume when hunting stack corruption) |
| 22:42.45 | Maloeran | The stack corruption was caused by something else, probably a consequence of the first bug |
| 22:42.51 | brlcad | easy enough to recompile once, run and get a valgrind report |
| 22:43.11 | brlcad | comes up clean and then at least basic operation is sound |
| 22:43.43 | brlcad | if you get lucky, though, it might indicate a problem elsewhere that hadn't even been considered, or thought to be fine |
| 22:44.28 | ``Erik | heh |
| 22:44.33 | Maloeran | Syscall param write() points to unitialized bytes in XOpenDisplay() Eheh okay, that was unexpected |
| 22:57.16 | Maloeran | ( It's not done prep'ing, I think I'll get results before tomorrow ) |
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| 23:11.30 | Maloeran | No error found by Valgrind, unfortunately |
| 23:19.59 | ``Erik | hum |
| 23:20.16 | ``Erik | what about grabbing bochs, setting it up as a true smp and grabbing a leenewx smp disk image |
| 23:20.19 | ``Erik | and see if it can crash in that? |
| 23:20.32 | ``Erik | (won' be fast, but it might be a way to reproduce the error) |
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| 00:01.02 | ``Erik | hmmm, 2fps, prep time of 248s |
| 00:01.52 | Maloeran | Eh okay, that is old |
| 00:02.43 | ``Erik | 850mhz athlon |
| 00:02.44 | ``Erik | :) |
| 00:09.10 | Maloeran | Perhaps you weren't able to notice due to the crashs, but memory consumption can rise by 7% or so when prep'ing multi-threaded, for the same quality |
| 00:09.36 | Maloeran | Slicing the problem into pieces degrades quality a bit |
| 00:27.52 | Maloeran | Perhaps I should have. The reason why I haven't bought one myself is simple : 30 days work periods, + 35 days delay to get check, + 30 days period to release U.S check funds With such a 3.5 months delay, I'm just beginning to be paid ;) |
| 00:29.05 | brlcad | heh, fun .. sounds like my first months of getting paid as a student |
| 00:29.14 | brlcad | that had about a 3 month delay |
| 00:29.28 | brlcad | summer job was almost over by the time the paychecks started arriving |
| 00:30.01 | Maloeran | Eh, exactly. The worst part is that I had paid thousands in lawyers, then came the conference fees |
| 00:30.47 | Maloeran | So briefly, I'm not quite ready to buy more computer hardware than the laptop yet |
| 00:31.59 | brlcad | I didn't mean you buy one even |
| 00:32.43 | brlcad | company equipment, they have the ability to give you one to use if they really want to |
| 00:33.37 | brlcad | and overall, that's usually the best option -- the liability is on their dime, you can get the best hardware, you don't take the new-machine depreciation hit,e tc. |
| 00:34.07 | Maloeran | I think it's actually illegal to give equipment to consultants in Canada, or I could risk being defined as an employee |
| 00:34.18 | Maloeran | In which case they would have breached the law |
| 00:34.20 | ``Erik | heh |
| 00:41.03 | brlcad | ahh, mebbie |
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| 10:00.21 | archivist | heh stellas arthritis |
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| 18:12.33 | brlcad | heh |
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| 02:25.29 | dtidrow | brlcad: still on? |
| 04:25.54 | ntroutman_ | any photon mapping people in here? |
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| 14:49.23 | Maloeran | Can anyone confirm my understanding of floating point math, specifically that if a < b, then floor(a) will always be <= floor(b) ? |
| 14:49.55 | Maloeran | Without possibility of bad rounding once in a billion |
| 14:50.55 | clock_ | Maloeran: in floating point, no logic can be used. |
| 14:51.13 | clock_ | For example the following program printf("%f",a); printf("%f",a); printed two different numbers. |
| 14:51.27 | clock_ | And it was still in accordance to the behaviour of floating point numbers. |
| 14:52.21 | Maloeran | My present understanding of IEEE floats and floor() would imply that the logic above would always be true |
| 14:54.24 | clock_ | yes, the floor() function is a nondecreasing one |
| 14:55.33 | Maloeran | I'm just unsure about broken implementations doing 32<->80 bits conversions randomly, I know how the extra bits are discarded, truncation or rounding? |
| 14:55.40 | Maloeran | I don't* know how |
| 14:55.53 | clock_ | well there is no logic in floating point numbers |
| 14:56.04 | clock_ | if you need to be able to predict the behaviour, use fixed point :D |
| 14:56.38 | Maloeran | There's logic for sure, it's still clearly predictable |
| 14:57.15 | archivist | floats are not predictable never compare to 0 etc |
| 14:57.40 | Maloeran | Yes, I know that |
| 14:58.13 | Maloeran | ( And you can compare if you know for sure you are looking for an identical result ) |
| 14:59.02 | Maloeran | Basically, the point here is to do bin sorting, indexing floats in buckets. Can I be sure that all floats landing in bucket A will be < than the ones in bucket A+1 ? |
| 15:00.33 | Maloeran | That holds true as long as the implementation don't go around converting between multiple precisions ; I don't know if extra bits are truncated or rounded in that case |
| 15:02.00 | Maloeran | If that's a problem, I may as well extract mantissa and exponent manually, and work with that |
| 15:07.35 | clock_ | Do you know how to get red_mask,... etc. from XWindowAttributes? |
| 15:08.15 | ``Erik | ieee specifies several rounding models... down, up, truncation, nearest... |
| 15:09.24 | ``Erik | I THINK most x86 DEFAULTS to simple truncation, but it's not a defined thing... ummmmm, often there's an ieee header... like on fbsd, it's machine/ieeefp.h and I think on linux it's machine/ieee854.h |
| 15:09.58 | clock_ | floor is always down |
| 15:10.24 | ``Erik | floor is always down, but in conversion (32/80 or 64/80), it's definable |
| 15:10.39 | ``Erik | by the standard... most chips don't implement ALL of the standard |
| 15:12.12 | ``Erik | (also, floor 3.000000000000000000000000000001 maybe interpreted as floor 2.99999999999999999999999999999 due to fp instabilities, and give 2.0ish) |
| 15:12.30 | ``Erik | and visa versa |
| 15:12.51 | Maloeran | The way floor() should work, that should never happen |
| 15:13.07 | Maloeran | I'm concerned by any internal rounding though.. Ah, what a mess |
| 15:13.09 | ``Erik | fixed bit representation of floating point sucks arse |
| 15:13.48 | ``Erik | and dynamic width floating points (precise numbers) tend to incur a performance and memory penalty (scheme, ruby, libgmp, ...) |
| 15:14.35 | Maloeran | The point at the moment is to sort points and planes faster than my initial quick and lazy balanced binary tree |
| 15:14.51 | Maloeran | Bin sorting by floor() indexing would work, unless chips play dirty tricks on me |
| 15:15.41 | ``Erik | the dirty tricks will likely be in cases where #'s are so close, they don't really matter... |
| 15:15.59 | Maloeran | It matters a whole lot if 3.0000001 rounds to 2.0 |
| 15:16.26 | ``Erik | it'd take more 0's than that |
| 15:16.40 | Maloeran | Then the count of triangles in each bin is wrong, the traversal cost calculation is off, the actual sorting by comparison against the plane will give incorrect results, and it gets stuck in an infinite loop |
| 15:17.02 | ``Erik | I don't think you'd see it if you're happy with float precision |
| 15:17.54 | Maloeran | If I do such bin indexing, it is required for all points in bin A to be < than the ones in bin A+1 |
| 15:18.01 | Maloeran | Unless things will go really bad :) |
| 15:18.06 | Maloeran | Otherwise* things |
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| 16:39.21 | brlcad | Maloeran: for IEEE floating point, I believe that is a valid assertion <= |
| 16:41.26 | brlcad | but that isn't to say that there are plenty of libs and implementations that are not conformant out there (really a lot) |
| 16:43.15 | dtidrow | arg |
| 16:43.17 | brlcad | at the hardware and library level really, to the point of not hoping for IEEE |
| 16:43.51 | ``Erik | http://www.freebsd.org/cgi/cvsweb.cgi/src/lib/msun/src/s_floorf.c?rev=1.7&content-type=text/x-cvsweb-markup |
| 16:43.52 | ``Erik | gnarley |
| 16:48.26 | Maloeran | Right, brlcad.. so I guess I can't rely on a comformant behavior on this point |
| 16:49.17 | brlcad | depends what the purpose is really |
| 16:49.18 | brlcad | i mean it should make things more stable overall |
| 16:49.27 | brlcad | but it won't necessarily be rock solid |
| 16:51.24 | brlcad | all you can guarantee rock solid is that you're within some epsilon, and doing greater/less than comparisons |
| 16:51.46 | ``Erik | *nod* fp sucks |
| 16:52.00 | Maloeran | With a big impact on performance |
| 16:52.10 | ``Erik | it's an approximate representation, so full on precision can't be guaranteed |
| 16:52.44 | brlcad | pretty much a necessity for analytic purposes, but you could certain finagle some #cludgyness that would make it compile-time optional if you wanted |
| 16:53.40 | Maloeran | ``Erik, I love floating point. I just wish implementations would all be perfectly predictable and conform to the standard |
| 16:53.51 | ``Erik | erm |
| 16:53.53 | ``Erik | the, uh |
| 16:53.58 | ``Erik | standard is not perfectly predictable |
| 16:54.04 | ``Erik | 754 OR 854... :/ |
| 16:54.36 | Maloeran | It is for the things I tend to care about, like this floor() thing |
| 16:54.50 | ``Erik | floor() is totally predictable |
| 16:55.04 | ``Erik | the number you THINK you have may not be the number you actually have |
| 16:55.22 | Maloeran | Yes well, the internal conversions between different representations ( 80<->32 ) mess things up a bit |
| 16:55.26 | ``Erik | if I have a very precise function and I feed it an imprecise input, I cannot expect the output to be any more precise than the input |
| 16:55.43 | Maloeran | I'm aware of that, I just need consistency |
| 16:55.58 | Maloeran | If a < b, I need floor(a) to be <= floor(b), always |
| 16:56.04 | ``Erik | it's not the function, it's the notion that you're using an approximate representation that induces the numeric instabilities |
| 16:56.38 | ``Erik | if floor() is floorf(), that's probabably a pretty safe assumption... it's probably safe on floord() as well |
| 16:57.09 | Maloeran | I would need to force the implementation to truncate back to 32 bits before floor(), if it's x87 |
| 16:58.48 | ``Erik | floor() might not execute on the fpu |
| 16:59.12 | ``Erik | the url I pasted was how fbsd does it, it's a bit twiddle in integer there... I d'no leenewx or others |
| 16:59.14 | ``Erik | *shrug* |
| 16:59.28 | ``Erik | (and I don't know if that's a POSSIBLE path on fbsd, or an always path) |
| 16:59.55 | Maloeran | There are faster hardware solutions, a couple cycles |
| 17:00.27 | ``Erik | it's highly unlikely you'll have problems, but there's that one little caveat that exists when you do anything at all involving floating point representation... :) |
| 17:01.51 | clock_ | Now if someone tells me how to run the damned mged in vnc server I can do screenshot videos in Theora, DivX and Windows Media Video |
| 17:01.55 | Maloeran | Oh, I hit some very annoying fp problems with the old prototype before... :) |
| 17:02.38 | Maloeran | I had a static function that would compute the bin index, and it was meant to always return the same index when given the same input. It makes sense of course, I had to debug for a long while to discover that... it didn't! |
| 17:02.53 | ``Erik | clock: um, /usr/brlcad/bin/mged ? |
| 17:02.56 | Maloeran | The reason : GCC was inlining it, and it messed up the 80<->32 bits x87 conversions |
| 17:03.24 | ``Erik | heh |
| 17:06.49 | ``Erik | 1) Correct 21081851083600.37596259382529338 0x42b32c803ebb5060 |
| 17:06.49 | ``Erik | 2) SPARC-quad 21081851083600.37500000000000 0x42b32c803ebb5060 |
| 17:06.49 | ``Erik | 4) IA32 21081851083600.38281250000000 0x42b32c803ebb5062 |
| 17:06.53 | ``Erik | interesting |
| 17:07.23 | brlcad | Maloeran: subtracting the two and comparing against an epsilon should be way faster than calling floor() twice (or even once) |
| 17:08.05 | ``Erik | http://www.validlab.com/goldberg/paper.pdf |
| 17:08.12 | Maloeran | brlcad, it was for sorting in bins... Make yourself 256 bins, find in which bin a point lands by a mere floor() |
| 17:08.13 | ``Erik | http://72.5.124.65/sunstudio/articles/fp_errors.html |
| 17:09.22 | brlcad | "by a mere floor()" sounds rather misleading |
| 17:09.47 | brlcad | I'd then say that "by a mere macro" you could do that same thing much faster |
| 17:11.00 | Maloeran | Hum, a macro? I mean it's a serial operation without branching, you get the bin index directly after an add and a mul |
| 17:11.25 | ``Erik | floor() has several branch points in the msun package |
| 17:11.37 | Maloeran | floor() has no branches when executed by the hardware ;) |
| 17:11.51 | Maloeran | These are probably fallbacks |
| 17:12.00 | ``Erik | hrm |
| 17:12.14 | ``Erik | I'd expect certain flags to be set depending on what exactly happened |
| 17:12.26 | ``Erik | :/ |
| 17:13.09 | ``Erik | -ffast-math purposefully breaks ieee for speed |
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| 17:14.31 | Maloeran | Even that software implementation is better than the 8 nodes of a binary tree to sort in 256 buckets for example |
| 17:14.45 | ``Erik | *shrug* |
| 17:14.47 | ``Erik | so do it |
| 17:14.51 | ``Erik | and see if the test cases get faster |
| 17:14.53 | ``Erik | :) |
| 17:21.21 | ``Erik | heh http://support.microsoft.com/kb/214118 |
| 17:24.22 | clock_ | Use Precision as Displayed option in Word ;-) |
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| 20:33.25 | Maloeran | Tip of the day : Blizzards and bicycles are a poor combination |
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| 21:35.07 | brlcad | heh, "tip" of the day, nice pun |
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| 13:56.53 | ``Erik | =/det |
| 15:20.50 | brlcad | ^ad does the same in fewer keystrokes |
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| 15:31.30 | ``Erik | ^ad is screen, /det is bx, and bx doesn't cope with sigwinch right |
| 15:37.21 | ``Erik | in scheme! w000 |
| 17:21.06 | Maloeran | Adding that to the list, hum? You have an OS and a raytracer to write in Scheme already, or so you said :) |
| 17:22.48 | Maloeran | Erik, can I assume floats are always IEEE 32 bits floats, and double IEEE 64 bits? Got to play with the binary representation to avoid internal rounding and approximations |
| 17:23.24 | Maloeran | The prep should be 2-3 times faster apparently |
| 17:46.26 | ``Erik | um, that's probably safe-ish, but we can test that using autoconf shtuffs |
| 17:57.17 | Maloeran | Yes, it just means to write a fallback path if we don't have IEEE floats |
| 17:57.32 | Maloeran | means +"I have" to write |
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| 22:39.07 | CIA-5 | BRL-CAD: 03mjgillich * 10brlcad/configure.ac: added check for C++ compiler and override default flags to nothing |
| 23:14.29 | CIA-5 | BRL-CAD: 03mjgillich * 10brlcad/src/external/Cubit/g-sat.cxx: BRL-CAD to ACIS (export) convertor for importing to CUBIT (1st version) -- needs review and cleanup but fully functional |
| 23:19.26 | CIA-5 | BRL-CAD: 03mjgillich * 10brlcad/src/external/Cubit/Makefile.am: initial Makefile for g-sat convertor. Has lib paths hard-coded, needs work to be configurable. |
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| 23:37.18 | Maloeran | Erik, feel free to try the threaded prep again. Fixed a minor potential glitch but I have doubts that was it |
| 23:37.40 | Maloeran | Oh, and the prep is now twice as fast... with a 2% graph quality loss I don't explain yet |
| 23:43.50 | ``Erik | don't, or can't? |
| 23:50.01 | Maloeran | Sorry, I mean I can't explain it yet, I just need to sleep on it |
| 23:52.11 | Maloeran | Any recommendation of LCD monitor brand for a gamer? ( Not me, christmas present ) |
| 23:58.11 | brlcad | ``Erik: we do it because having unset cflags is no more arbitrary than using -O2 -g |
| 23:59.14 | brlcad | he didn't add the cflags one -- that was already there, I added it for that very reason. he overrides cxxflags following example |
| 00:00.30 | brlcad | I see no reason why GNU should be dictating which flags we should and should not use by default .. as a project we can decide to make optimized or non-optimized a default or some other configuration, that's not GNUs job imho |
| 00:01.32 | brlcad | we're just about stable enough to flip to having --enable-optimized default to yes instead of no, but that's again a separate decision from GNU's |
| 00:16.28 | ``Erik | uhmmm, gnu's "defaults" respect environment variables |
| 00:16.36 | ``Erik | and -enable-optimized doesn't do what I happen to want to do |
| 00:16.49 | ``Erik | it lacks, for example, the mtune and march stuff I have in my make defaults |
| 00:17.47 | ``Erik | (and I don't think you know my hardware better than I do.... :) |
| 00:29.09 | brlcad | uhmmm well if you read it, the environment variables ares still respected |
| 00:29.36 | brlcad | so you can still mtune to your content |
| 00:30.39 | ``Erik | heh *shrug* I'm busy writing ruby code :) |
| 00:30.45 | ``Erik | can't be arsed to figur eout what I'm talking about |
| 00:30.46 | ``Erik | O:-) |
| 00:30.52 | brlcad | all it does is change what happens when nothing is specified, which is gnu's |
| 00:31.09 | brlcad | configure |
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| 03:18.28 | ``Erik | http://youtube.com/watch?v=PlV8WJ6N3nU interesting airplane |
| 03:21.19 | brlcad | http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZfbTO0GlONU interesting diner! |
| 03:21.48 | brlcad | heh, that is cool airplane |
| 03:24.32 | dtidrow | model airplane on steroids :-) |
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| 15:48.05 | Maloeran | Doh! So that's the threaded prep bug |
| 15:50.57 | ``Erik | heh |
| 15:50.58 | ``Erik | what was it? :D |
| 15:51.04 | ``Erik | bad locking? |
| 15:55.45 | Maloeran | Basically, yes. In some specific circumstances, it was launching jobs that it shouldn't have |
| 16:03.56 | ``Erik | ah |
| 16:18.42 | Maloeran | Finally you'll be able to tell me how the stuff scales, prep and tracing :) |
| 16:21.51 | ``Erik | but I still have to hack the config file to define the # of threads? |
| 16:22.20 | ``Erik | libbu has a function to report # of cores, might as well link against it since eventually it'll be shoved into that package |
| 16:23.50 | Maloeran | The define is in rfdemo.c, not the config.h file. Would be easy to specify that by command line or something |
| 16:24.07 | Maloeran | With glibc, get_nprocs() can be used to get the count of processors |
| 16:25.24 | Maloeran | rtContextEnv( RT_THREAD_COUNT_HINT, threadcount, 0 ) <-- rfdemo.c, specifies the count of threads |
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| 18:11.19 | ``Erik | not every os has glibc... in fact, I can only think of one that does... |
| 18:11.32 | ``Erik | the libbu one calls get_nprocs() on linux |
| 18:11.38 | ``Erik | performs the right sysctl on bsd |
| 18:11.39 | ``Erik | etc |
| 18:11.47 | ``Erik | works everywhere arl cares about... :) |
| 18:12.18 | ``Erik | (lots of OS abstraction in the BRL-CAD (happy, brlcad?) libraries) |
| 18:31.03 | Maloeran | I get the idea, that belongs outside the raytracing library anyhow, in the rfdemo files |
| 18:35.30 | Maloeran | Neat, you support some exotic platforms in there ;) |
| 18:53.39 | ``Erik | heh |
| 18:53.48 | ``Erik | looking at the old vax/vms stuff? or the cray stuff? |
| 18:54.20 | ``Erik | brlcad cranked up a netbsd install on a vms11/70 I think in simh to make sure the product still works there... a bit extreme :) |
| 18:55.00 | ``Erik | <-- has teh top plate of a pdp11/70 (pre-vax dec hw) on his windows machine... windows make that smoking machine almost as useful as an old pdp11 |
| 18:55.05 | ``Erik | makes |
| 18:58.53 | Maloeran | Eheh, very neat |
| 19:00.25 | Maloeran | I suppose there's no harm in just leaving support for these prehistoric platforms there, you can throw it out if it ever gets in the way |
| 19:01.36 | ``Erik | heh |
| 19:02.35 | ``Erik | and I think that too much code is pitiful and unacceptable in the quality aspect |
| 19:03.04 | ``Erik | take a look at linux kernel code... it's obvious how little thinking was put into portability, and how poorly the hacks to "make it work" here and there are |
| 19:03.22 | ``Erik | if you only ever support the specific platform and architecture, yes, you can make those assumptions. |
| 19:03.40 | Maloeran | Yes, but I would say it's about "making it work fast" |
| 19:03.50 | ``Erik | if you code in that fashion, the second you adjust for another platform, you probably LOSE efficiency as the 'to cope with' hacks get introduced |
| 19:04.04 | Maloeran | It's an operating system kernel, I would sacrifice design portability for performance |
| 19:04.12 | ``Erik | heh |
| 19:04.18 | ``Erik | well, suppose you have two choices |
| 19:04.43 | ``Erik | you can make a generic thing that works everywhere, but it's only 95% as the optimal on your development machine... |
| 19:04.49 | ``Erik | so you implement the 100% optimal |
| 19:04.53 | Maloeran | Linux has big chunks of code for each arch it supports, specifically tailored for the architecture |
| 19:04.54 | ``Erik | now someone else has different hw |
| 19:05.15 | ``Erik | so they put in if(thisarch) {do this} else {dothis} |
| 19:05.24 | Maloeran | Solaris did that, very portable code, and its deserves the Slowaris nickname |
| 19:05.49 | ``Erik | and someone else has different hw, so now it's if(thisarch) {dothis} else if(thisarch) {dothis} else {dothis} |
| 19:05.55 | ``Erik | heh, actually |
| 19:06.03 | ``Erik | solaris was designed to be efficient on usparc |
| 19:06.06 | ``Erik | and nothing touches it there |
| 19:06.11 | ``Erik | 'slowaris' is only for the x86 port |
| 19:06.30 | ``Erik | because it wasn't designed with portability in mind... it was designed for insane efficiency... on a usparc/sbus machine. |
| 19:06.34 | Maloeran | Ah I see. I did read some comparisons between Linux and Solaris code design |
| 19:06.50 | ``Erik | solaris is *VERY* tuned to usparc |
| 19:06.54 | ``Erik | linux is *VERY* tuned to x86 |
| 19:07.02 | ``Erik | the minute you stray from their native environment, they SUCK |
| 19:07.03 | ``Erik | :( |
| 19:07.46 | Maloeran | I thought the Linux kernel had huge blocks of arch-specific code, taillored for performance |
| 19:08.02 | Maloeran | While Solaris had elegant layers of abstractions, making it fairly portable, and slow |
| 19:08.35 | ``Erik | solaris is well architected, but x86 was a half-assed afterthough |
| 19:08.55 | ``Erik | the focus was always the latest line of sun hw |
| 19:09.01 | ``Erik | m68k, then sparc, then ultrasparc |
| 19:09.19 | Maloeran | Well, you know me, I'll sacrifice code elegance for performance any time. For a kernel, it matters a lot |
| 19:09.26 | ``Erik | heh |
| 19:09.37 | ``Erik | in the immediate term, that's acceptable |
| 19:09.44 | ``Erik | in the long term, it's what leads to shit code |
| 19:09.46 | ``Erik | like the linux kenrel |
| 19:09.49 | ``Erik | kernel |
| 19:09.55 | ``Erik | goto hell, jump tables out the wazoo |
| 19:10.02 | ``Erik | hack upon hack upon hack |
| 19:10.04 | ``Erik | it's... sad. |
| 19:10.12 | Maloeran | I wouldn't qualify the Linux kernel of "shit code" |
| 19:10.23 | ``Erik | uh |
| 19:10.24 | ``Erik | if you don |
| 19:10.34 | ``Erik | if you don't, then you hav enot looked at much kernel code. |
| 19:10.48 | ``Erik | seriously, dude, I'm BOGGLED that it works AT ALL |
| 19:11.03 | Maloeran | The parts I read were far better than most other open source code I have seen |
| 19:11.11 | ``Erik | hm |
| 19:11.17 | ``Erik | the networking stack is semi-decent |
| 19:11.25 | ``Erik | the scheduler was just gutted and replaced, it's kinda ok |
| 19:11.42 | ``Erik | memory management, file system, drivers... horrible |
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| 19:12.10 | Maloeran | Memory management may be "horrible" code-wise, but it's still efficient |
| 19:12.41 | ``Erik | efficient on hw with the i386 mmu |
| 19:12.42 | ``Erik | sure |
| 19:13.02 | Maloeran | Of course so :) |
| 19:13.06 | ``Erik | on an alpha? ppc/sp? mips? sparc? vm? of course not |
| 19:13.16 | Maloeran | There are paths for other architectures, but I haven't read them |
| 19:13.26 | Maloeran | I guess far less work was put on them |
| 19:13.32 | ``Erik | the very *NOTION* that there are other paths |
| 19:13.34 | ``Erik | is a hit. |
| 19:13.37 | ``Erik | :( |
| 19:13.52 | Maloeran | It's a compilation time "path", it's only a hit on the time of the programmers |
| 19:14.04 | ``Erik | of course, the performance related stuff I tend to do tend to be rare runs |
| 19:14.16 | ``Erik | so in computing total cost, developer time is in there |
| 19:14.18 | Maloeran | And since it's a kernel, I'm not against having a whole specific path optimized for each architecture |
| 19:14.26 | ``Erik | well |
| 19:14.43 | ``Erik | if it were defined sufficiently that each arch could be a totally independant project, great |
| 19:15.08 | ``Erik | 99.999% of code A) is not that well defined and B) does not have the resource allotment for each plausible arch/os |
| 19:15.14 | Maloeran | Not independant, most of the code can still be shared, but very distinct modules yes |
| 19:15.30 | ``Erik | independant projects can share |
| 19:15.41 | ``Erik | I mean, if you were in tune to the bsd family... |
| 19:15.54 | ``Erik | freebsd, openbsd, netbsd,and dragonfly are all very much distinct projects |
| 19:15.56 | ``Erik | but share a LOT |
| 19:16.11 | ``Erik | all with different focii |
| 19:16.48 | Maloeran | Well, what can I see, Linux is weaker than alternative on certain architectures. I use the architectures that offer the best performance/cost ratio, as most of the world, and it's ia32/amd64 |
| 19:16.57 | Maloeran | can I say* |
| 19:18.16 | ``Erik | for both administrative effort and for 'well written' code efficiency :/ |
| 19:18.38 | ``Erik | understanding the semantics of the fundamentals helps |
| 19:19.03 | ``Erik | like groking the difference between phkmalloc and dlmalloc |
| 19:19.42 | ``Erik | (phk allocs and frees REAL fast, and guarantees contiguous memory... dlmalloc is just a hair slower on alloc and free, but way faster on realloc) |
| 19:19.55 | ``Erik | bsd is phkmalloc, linux is dlmalloc |
| 19:19.56 | ``Erik | :) |
| 19:20.15 | ``Erik | dlmalloc does *NOT* guarantee contiguous memory, physical pages are all over the place ... |
| 19:20.25 | Maloeran | I thought the BSD free() was a bit slow though, perhaps just aggressive on releasing memory pages |
| 19:21.01 | Maloeran | And the OSX free() sure is terribly slow :), one is better write a wrapper |
| 19:21.33 | ``Erik | like, uh, *nix filesystems fight for contiguous data... where windows is all over teh place... linux wire memory is all over the place (fragmented... assume the process closes before issues happen) |
| 19:21.54 | ``Erik | I think linux and fbsd free memory asynchronously, where osX is synchronous |
| 19:22.18 | ``Erik | when you free on linux and fbsd, sometime, that memory will be available.. eventually... on osX, that memory is available when the function returns. Damnit. |
| 19:22.26 | ``Erik | I'd have to doublecheck to be sure |
| 19:22.31 | Maloeran | Continuity matters for file systems, but for memory? Processors don't really care if two pages are next to each other or not, the translation takes care of that |
| 19:22.40 | ``Erik | um |
| 19:22.48 | ``Erik | most cpu's have a mandatory read-ahead |
| 19:23.06 | ``Erik | so, uh |
| 19:23.06 | ``Erik | if you access memory linearly, it DOES matter |
| 19:23.10 | Maloeran | Yes, and that read-ahead relies on the process address space, not the translated addresses |
| 19:23.24 | ``Erik | hrm, true |
| 19:23.40 | ``Erik | :/ |
| 19:23.51 | ``Erik | wench on the phone, code editor with ruby code up, ... etc |
| 19:24.04 | Maloeran | I guess continuous memory pages would still be better in other circumstances though. DMA'ing to devices and so on |
| 19:24.22 | Maloeran | Eh, all right. I need to go eat breakfast before it closes at 15h anyhow |
| 19:24.43 | ``Erik | hehehe :) |
| 19:25.27 | ``Erik | later, duder |
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| 21:55.41 | sand | heya |
| 22:15.33 | brlcad | hello, ...back later... |
| 22:20.29 | sand | what's the licence for brlcad? |
| 22:29.41 | Maloeran | LGPL |
| 22:30.25 | Maloeran | Although some pieces are BSD I think |
| 22:33.53 | sand | cool |
| 22:33.56 | sand | why is it not in debian? |
| 22:33.58 | sand | >P |
| 22:36.00 | Maloeran | No idea. It isn't in Gentoo either, but it's fairly simple to install |
| 22:57.35 | brlcad | sand: only because nobody from those projects has completed the effort mostly -- there are partial efforts in place for both debian and gentoo |
| 23:04.16 | sand | ah |
| 23:59.38 | ``Erik | if a debian or gentoo porter were looking to get it hooked up, we'd naturally offer to help how we can... I do the freebsd port, so I can provide a file listing, etc |
| 01:49.37 | dtidrow | Discovery's on its way |
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| 03:23.59 | Maloeran | Somewhat unexpected from an encyclopedia with abundant information on subjects such as, let's say, each pokemon and its properties |
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| 09:05.24 | brlcad | dtidrow: ah, dang.. forgot about the takeoff schedule |
| 09:05.31 | brlcad | good times |
| 09:08.54 | fbsdbook | how well does the fbsd port of brlcad work ? |
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| 16:47.17 | Maloeran | Erik, any chance of a quick octo-opteron test today? |
| 17:04.18 | ``Erik | 'fraid not, I'm rdo today, I can hook you up tomorrow |
| 17:05.21 | ``Erik | so I still do 80 hrs the fortnight, I just get one extra day off in exchange for longer days |
| 17:07.55 | ``Erik | join the club |
| 17:31.58 | Maloeran | And Mark asked to update the milestones once again *sigh* |
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| 02:20.09 | Maloeran | And the truck is even worse, Erik. It's filled with cracks, and the overlapping triangles are visible as we of course can't use the triangle orientation |
| 02:20.39 | Maloeran | Must I get this to work with the truck or is there hope of getting proper geometry? |
| 02:21.37 | *** join/#brlcad dtidrow (n=dtidrow@69.255.182.248) | |
| 02:44.21 | ``Erik | hehehe |
| 02:44.29 | ``Erik | did I just view the fixed image? |
| 02:44.35 | ``Erik | <-- curious what the unfixed image looks like |
| 02:45.54 | Maloeran | Probably the fixed one, yes :) |
| 02:46.09 | Maloeran | The other one was such a mess, but I didn't spot the error immediately |
| 02:47.51 | Maloeran | Or http://www.rayforce.net/blend01.png for the engine. I need to raise the eye-candy factor a bit |
| 02:48.31 | ``Erik | oh neat, they even modelled the throttle body ports |
| 02:48.56 | Maloeran | Yes, I'm discovering new parts of this truck with transparency |
| 02:51.36 | Maloeran | Transparency makes rays go through these many inner sectors with > 100 triangles, kind of slow |
| 02:52.04 | ``Erik | yeah, but that's a needed capability for the practical application |
| 02:52.26 | Maloeran | Of course. In fact, I'm more complaining about the model than the capability |
| 02:53.01 | ``Erik | <-- thinks that model is probably pretty representative of the common data set... |
| 02:53.04 | ``Erik | 'cept a bunch smaller |
| 02:53.04 | ``Erik | heh |
| 02:53.40 | Maloeran | There are non-axis aligned tiny tubes made of ~500 long thin triangles everywhere in the engine |
| 02:54.00 | Maloeran | So tiny, yet so much geometry. In comparison, the haul/frame is all chunky |
| 02:54.13 | ``Erik | hm, tesselation of the pipe segments? |
| 02:54.42 | Maloeran | Yes, and these tubes have inner geometry, some kind of weird inner bolts... or narrowing passages |
| 02:56.45 | ``Erik | 'inner bolts'? hrmmm, you dispose of a good amount of data in your format |
| 02:57.07 | ``Erik | some of those should be hollow (filled with air, actually, which I don't know if you carried out) |
| 02:57.25 | ``Erik | and some of those should be filled with metal or fluids |
| 02:57.34 | ``Erik | (wires and hydraulic lines) |
| 02:57.49 | Maloeran | I see. Yes, these little tubes are amazingly detailled |
| 02:58.59 | ``Erik | intersection with those also feed into other algorithms with great effect *shrug* so they matter :) |
| 02:59.07 | Maloeran | So basically, these innocent looking tubes hurt performance badly at the moment |
| 02:59.13 | Maloeran | Right :) |
| 02:59.33 | Maloeran | I'm not really complaining as long as we compare with ADRT on the same data set |
| 02:59.50 | ``Erik | yeah, I need to get to that, heh |
| 03:00.56 | Maloeran | No rush, so many optimisations and ideas left to explore.. |
| 03:24.40 | brlcad | ah, i bet they're pipes .. which are actually hollow tubes .. so you're probably seeing the outer cylinder and the inner one twisting through paths |
| 03:24.57 | brlcad | in fact, in the image you show.. those are indeed pipes |
| 03:25.57 | brlcad | in implicit form, that's just one extra radius to store for the entire path, so the extra detail comes practically for free |
| 03:26.31 | dtidrow | brlcad: was MJ in today? |
| 03:26.49 | brlcad | dtidrow: I don't know, I wasn't |
| 03:27.07 | brlcad | and I don't see MJ daily.. usually only once a month |
| 03:27.07 | dtidrow | tried calling, but she must have been out at the time |
| 03:27.16 | dtidrow | I'll send her an email |
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| 14:29.17 | Maloeran | Hey Erik, can you ask Lee sometimes if he still want Voxel support in the raytracer? He wasn't sure the last time we met in Baltimore |
| 14:32.05 | Maloeran | Would just be nice to know to update the schedule |
| 14:32.36 | ``Erik | if I see him today, sure... his office door was closed when I got my coffee |
| 14:32.46 | ``Erik | is the transparency stuff committed? |
| 14:33.23 | Maloeran | It isn't, I got a bunch of optimisation and SSE paths to do first |
| 14:33.42 | Maloeran | Feel free to test what's in CVS, just to make sure it actually runs this time |
| 14:34.41 | ``Erik | I just ran it on a quad opteron fbsd, around 40 fps |
| 14:35.14 | ``Erik | osX crashed on bad memory related to a semaphore |
| 14:35.27 | Maloeran | Gah! Where? |
| 14:35.32 | ``Erik | <-- dorking with brlcad at the moment |
| 14:35.45 | Maloeran | Okay. |
| 14:43.31 | ``Erik | http://paste.lisp.org/display/32142 |
| 14:45.16 | Maloeran | Thanks |
| 14:49.47 | Maloeran | Fixed |
| 15:01.16 | Maloeran | Done. The current transparency demo uses portable scalar pipelines, so it's slow |
| 15:03.40 | ``Erik | 12-14 on the quad opteron |
| 15:03.55 | Maloeran | Thought so :) |
| 15:04.01 | Maloeran | No SSE, no volume tracing, etc. |
| 15:04.29 | ``Erik | still impressive *shrug* |
| 15:04.53 | Maloeran | I'm mostly glad that it finally runs flawlessly over there... ... right? :) |
| 15:08.22 | ``Erik | now I get: http://paste.lisp.org/display/32145 |
| 15:08.32 | ``Erik | it was able to prep |
| 15:08.42 | ``Erik | and threw a few frames up... still yellow |
| 15:10.34 | Maloeran | Thanks |
| 15:11.05 | Maloeran | As for the "still yellow" part... Hackish solution would be to put +1 somewhere when on big endian, real solution would be to query SDL on the format of pixels |
| 15:11.15 | Maloeran | Which I never bothered to do |
| 15:12.17 | Maloeran | How long does the prep take on the quad opteron? |
| 15:12.42 | Maloeran | I'm just wondering if threading is of much help, depites all the locking |
| 15:16.05 | ``Erik | running it now... |
| 15:16.06 | Maloeran | Second bug is understood, now wondering how did I make such a stupid mistake and the best way to reorganize the code |
| 15:16.41 | ``Erik | on the 8 core linux opteron, 4 threads runs ~10-12 fps, 8 runs ~18-20 (holding in the initial view) |
| 15:16.57 | Maloeran | Sounds fine. What about the prep time? |
| 15:17.27 | ``Erik | running... |
| 15:17.28 | Maloeran | SSE and volume tracing should double the frame rate or so, for now |
| 15:18.14 | ``Erik | <-- doing 4 threads on the 4 core fbsd, 8 threads on the 8 core linux, will then recompile with 1 thread (or should it be 0?) and get the 'serial' #'s |
| 15:18.25 | ``Erik | woops, the linux one crashed |
| 15:18.25 | Maloeran | 1 thread |
| 15:18.40 | Maloeran | If you want truly serial, comment out RF_THREADING from config.h |
| 15:18.49 | Maloeran | Same place? It would make sense |
| 15:20.02 | ``Erik | http://paste.lisp.org/display/32148 |
| 15:20.33 | Maloeran | 169 seconds you say? :) |
| 15:22.32 | ``Erik | RF/config.h ? |
| 15:22.42 | Maloeran | To disable threading, yes |
| 15:23.09 | Maloeran | Setting the count of threads to 1 in rfdemo.c would have been somewhat similar |
| 15:23.23 | ``Erik | now I got a gdb hit on the linux box... and don't quite grok why it'd fail. |
| 15:23.29 | Maloeran | The prep is 12 seconds on this laptop no matter the amount of threads |
| 15:24.03 | ``Erik | Preparation time : 9.943 seconds |
| 15:25.38 | Maloeran | Is that astronomical prep time constant with many threads? |
| 15:25.46 | ``Erik | http://paste.lisp.org/display/32149 |
| 15:25.47 | Maloeran | It's... rather peculiar |
| 15:26.40 | ``Erik | lemme try it with two threads |
| 15:26.43 | Maloeran | Okay, seems I got a couple things to fix still |
| 15:28.15 | ``Erik | two threads gave me 53.403s on the fbsd/quad |
| 15:28.33 | Maloeran | Ah, messy |
| 15:28.45 | Maloeran | On the laptop : Serial is 10 seconds, threaded is 12 seconds |
| 15:28.59 | Maloeran | Could the synchronisation be killing performance that much? |
| 15:29.03 | ``Erik | how many cores? |
| 15:29.06 | Maloeran | One |
| 15:29.29 | ``Erik | so chances are you almost never get a block on lock |
| 15:29.55 | ``Erik | since you don't do system calls, as long as your critical sections are faster to compute than your scheduled quanta |
| 15:29.58 | Maloeran | Oh it does, but it doesn't have to flush and reload cache lines constantly because another processor wrote there |
| 15:30.24 | ``Erik | *shrug* |
| 15:30.34 | Maloeran | I really wouldn't have thought it could be dramatically *slower* with threads |
| 15:31.43 | Maloeran | Unless there's some glitch I'm missing, because that's not consistent with my understanding of cache synchronisation |
| 15:31.48 | Maloeran | It shouldn't be _that_ bad |
| 15:33.21 | Maloeran | Is it the same thing on Linux? I just want to make sure because that's one OS I know well |
| 15:33.30 | ``Erik | http://paste.lisp.org/display/32149#1 <-- crash on the mac |
| 15:33.40 | ``Erik | linux crashes |
| 15:34.20 | Maloeran | Okay, thanks. I'll fix this mess to begin with |
| 15:35.13 | ``Erik | but... not... consistantly... |
| 15:35.14 | ``Erik | hrm |
| 15:38.40 | ``Erik | hrmph, 8 threads to 12.117, 4 took 10.907, 2 took 9.555, 1 took 10.600 |
| 15:38.50 | ``Erik | that's one sample each, so *shrug* heh |
| 15:39.00 | Maloeran | Okay, that makes more sense |
| 15:39.08 | ``Erik | on linux... the 8 and 4 had to be run several times due to crashing |
| 15:39.21 | Maloeran | Ahaha, right *shivers* |
| 15:45.31 | Maloeran | Is the non-scalability of pthreads on fbsd the same problem Justin encountered long ago? |
| 15:45.44 | Maloeran | He had to switch to some non-default library or something |
| 15:46.13 | ``Erik | um, he was initially using a green threading library |
| 15:46.35 | ``Erik | so it wasn't taking advantage of multiple cores... the libmap.conf is adjusted so all apps use the thr many-many library now |
| 15:48.34 | ``Erik | any news on the moving arrangemens, btw? |
| 15:49.53 | Maloeran | The last news were Survice asking me to fill some form with questions such as if I had ever been part of the Germany Nazi government, participated or organized genocide, etc. |
| 15:52.22 | Maloeran | I'm not seeing the prep bug, do you have a couple more minutes to stockpile backtraces to throw at me? |
| 15:53.25 | Maloeran | With all these bugs, I'm astonished I never encounter them |
| 15:55.21 | clock_ | With all these gay boys, I'm astonished I never encounter them |
| 16:04.51 | ``Erik | sleep(0); is an interesting device |
| 16:07.31 | ``Erik | what milestone alterations were ya looking for? |
| 16:08.08 | Maloeran | Not too sure, let's wait Lee's word on voxels |
| 16:08.59 | ``Erik | he's right here, he suspects the voxel requirement may go away |
| 16:09.22 | Maloeran | Oh, good then |
| 16:09.45 | ``Erik | ... |
| 16:09.46 | Maloeran | I'm sure spending more time than I would have thought on little bugs I can't reproduce |
| 16:10.57 | Maloeran | Distributed processing will wait until mere threading is solid |
| 16:17.43 | ``Erik | heh |
| 16:18.13 | ``Erik | now that you have firing all the way through, the segment construction should be fairly easy |
| 16:18.42 | Maloeran | Yes, there isn't much left to code there |
| 16:19.14 | ``Erik | regression test suite isn't done? having identical execution behavior in a deterministic command might help squash these bugs a lot faster |
| 16:19.36 | ``Erik | or mebbe it is done, hrm, regtest... |
| 16:20.13 | Maloeran | It's somewhat done, it runs pre-set tests, log and compare the results |
| 16:21.05 | Maloeran | It expects a reglogs/ directory with reference images, I don't think I uploaded tghat |
| 16:21.22 | Maloeran | that, even. Anyhow, it's probably not of much help for the bugs I'm currently looking for |
| 16:22.47 | ``Erik | have you put abuse on it with valgrind? |
| 16:23.11 | Maloeran | Yes, I haven't found anything but only tried twice ; it takes minutes to run |
| 16:25.57 | Maloeran | From my point of view, what remains to be done : Bug squishing, complete support for and test API features, distribute processing, dynamic geometry, optimisation |
| 16:27.52 | ``Erik | and buttoning up the regression suite, segment stuff, ... |
| 16:28.24 | Maloeran | Right, segment stuff is part of testing API features |
| 16:36.36 | Maloeran | Anyhow, I could guess dates, I'm just annoyed at having no idea how much more time hunting thread prep bugs will drain |
| 16:39.46 | Maloeran | I have the impression it's mostly memory allocation/freeing that hurts performance, it's a global mutex |
| 16:40.02 | Maloeran | I should allocate and manage blocks per-thread |
| 16:41.13 | Maloeran | Which would spare the hypertransport bandwidth too, if using Numa to allocate memory in the right banks |
| 17:06.38 | *** join/#brlcad docelic (i=docelic@ri01-128.dialin.iskon.hr) | |
| 17:59.40 | Maloeran | Ever used helgrind, Erik? Is it worth downgrading to glibc 2.3, in order to be able to use valgrind 2.2, to be able to use helgrind? |
| 19:12.27 | ``Erik | 'helgrind'? |
| 19:12.34 | ``Erik | <-- hasn't even used valgrind, heh |
| 19:22.09 | ``Erik | heh, I love when twats brag about putting a 'big' drive in their windows box... |
| 19:22.10 | ``Erik | $ df -k | awk '{print $2}' | grep '^[0-9]*$' | xargs | sed 's/ /+/g;s,.*,(&)/(1024*1024*1024),' | bc -l | cut -b -5 |
| 19:22.10 | ``Erik | 17.15 |
| 19:24.42 | Maloeran | bc: command not found :( |
| 19:25.35 | Maloeran | I spent a hour getting a box up to running helgrind, the race condition checker of valgrind |
| 19:25.56 | Maloeran | And it's worthless, it detects thousands of false-positive because it can't follow the thread logic |
| 19:28.01 | ``Erik | how the fuck dn't you have bc? it's as basic and fundamental as grep or ls |
| 19:29.51 | Maloeran | Eh I know, the laptop is a bit minimalist |
| 19:34.36 | ``Erik | I should get my ultra5 working an ddrop solaris on it and give you an account, heh |
| 19:34.38 | ``Erik | a real unix. |
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| 19:51.17 | ``Erik | (if your lappie is something debian based, you could always try "apt-get install bc") |
| 20:12.48 | Maloeran | Cool Erik, I wouldn't mind another test platform |
| 20:13.12 | Maloeran | I have accounts on the servers and desktops of friends, and it's all Linux |
| 20:16.51 | CIA-5 | BRL-CAD: 03mjgillich * 10brlcad/include/raytrace.h: Changed smooth_bot to bot_smooth inorder to match other bot commands and functions. |
| 20:21.21 | CIA-5 | BRL-CAD: 03mjgillich * 10brlcad/src/tclscripts/helplib.tcl: Changed smooth_bot to bot_smooth inorder to match other bot commands and functions. |
| 20:25.46 | CIA-5 | BRL-CAD: 03mjgillich * 10brlcad/src/mged/ (chgmodel.c cmd.c): Changed smooth_bot to bot_smooth inorder to match other bot commands and functions. |
| 20:31.50 | CIA-5 | BRL-CAD: 03mjgillich * 10brlcad/src/librt/ (g_bot.c wdb_obj.c): Changed smooth_bot to bot_smooth inorder to match other bot commands and functions. |
| 20:35.09 | CIA-5 | BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/librt/bool.c: |
| 20:35.09 | CIA-5 | BRL-CAD: the comments around the conditional were entirely unintentional.. from the |
| 20:35.12 | CIA-5 | BRL-CAD: rt_g.debug to RT_G_DEBUG change that was made in 2001. it's just taken this |
| 20:35.14 | CIA-5 | BRL-CAD: long before someone actually tried to shoot a bundle of rays with librt (or at |
| 20:35.15 | CIA-5 | BRL-CAD: least this long for someone to complain about the verbose blather) |
| 20:39.19 | Maloeran | Ah, nice one :) |
| 20:59.09 | ``Erik | my u5 is really gutted at the moment... needs disk, memory, and a cpu... |
| 20:59.33 | ``Erik | <-- thinking it might be cheaper to buy one and use his current one for parts |
| 21:00.56 | ``Erik | heh |
| 21:00.58 | ``Erik | http://cgi.ebay.com/SGI-Octane-Dual-195-R10k-Irix-6-5-22_W0QQitemZ250057622638QQihZ015QQcategoryZ11223QQssPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem |
| 21:01.00 | ``Erik | there ya go :) |
| 21:16.12 | ``Erik | http://cgi.ebay.com/Sun-Microsystems-E450-Server-Quad-400MHz_W0QQitemZ320058948288QQihZ011QQcategoryZ51239QQssPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem |
| 21:16.13 | ``Erik | swank |
| 22:35.38 | dtidrow_work | netsplit :-( |
| 22:37.06 | *** join/#brlcad brlcad (n=sean@bz.bzflag.bz) [NETSPLIT VICTIM] | |
| 22:37.52 | dtidrow_work | wb |
| 22:40.47 | brlcad | heh |
| 22:40.57 | brlcad | network funkyness |
| 22:41.26 | brlcad | ah, heh.. WALLOP christel: Hi all! One of our main rotation servers just dropped off the face of the planet. Hundreds of trained little monkeys are looking to get it back online. Affected users approximately 3500. Thank you for flying |
| 22:41.30 | brlcad | <PROTECTED> |
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| 22:45.48 | dtidrow_work | lol |
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| 22:48.22 | tofu | eep |
| 22:48.44 | *** mode/#brlcad [+o brlcad] by ChanServ | |
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| 23:12.08 | CIA-5 | BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/tclscripts/ (helpcomm.tcl mged/help.tcl): |
| 23:12.08 | CIA-5 | BRL-CAD: fix an mged bug in the various help commands so that they actually work with |
| 23:12.09 | CIA-5 | BRL-CAD: more than one command listed (as their own help messages implied they were |
| 23:12.09 | CIA-5 | BRL-CAD: capable of). affects help, helplib, and helpdevel which now take zero, one, or |
| 23:12.09 | CIA-5 | BRL-CAD: more command names. |
| 23:18.53 | CIA-5 | BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/NEWS: |
| 23:18.53 | CIA-5 | BRL-CAD: mged help command now shows help for all args listed. this fixes a bug with the |
| 23:18.53 | CIA-5 | BRL-CAD: 'help' command where issuing something like 'helpdevel aip hist' would report |
| 23:18.53 | CIA-5 | BRL-CAD: the non-existance of the 'aip hist' command. now correctly returns the help for |
| 23:18.53 | CIA-5 | BRL-CAD: all listed individually as was documented. this issue was reported by an |
| 23:18.54 | CIA-5 | BRL-CAD: analyst at arl. |
| 23:51.25 | ``Erik | damn, gettin' your ass smacked down there :D |
| 01:37.39 | brlcad | huh? who wha? |
| 01:39.36 | dtidrow_work | lol |
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| 01:49.14 | Maloeran | Erik, by inserting if(!(rand()&0xFF))sleep(0); in every blank line of the prep in all functions, I'm able to reproduce your bugs |
| 01:49.22 | brlcad | hehe |
| 01:49.50 | dtidrow_work | is somebody being sarcastic? |
| 01:50.06 | brlcad | i think he means it |
| 01:56.02 | Maloeran | Yes I'm serious, nothing less drastic managed to trigger the bug |
| 01:58.58 | dtidrow_work | crazy |
| 02:52.01 | ``Erik | heh |
| 02:53.13 | ``Erik | dti: multithreaded apps that are very cpu bound when running on a single core have a behavior of saturating their quanta (therefore lucking out with exclusive access to the regions that should be locked) |
| 02:53.36 | ``Erik | but the second you bring that app to a machine with multiple cores and caches, shit goes bad... |
| 02:54.17 | ``Erik | sleep(0) just surrenders the quanta, so shoving it in some place "weird" can produce some of the side effects you see from having multiple alu's |
| 03:39.06 | Maloeran | ``Erik, just sleep()s weren't enough, I needed the rand() |
| 03:39.24 | Maloeran | And I needed a whole lot of them saturated all over the code :) |
| 03:40.40 | Maloeran | It should be shortly fixed now, so I can finally move on to... actual work |
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| 06:38.42 | Maloeran | Ah, I just woke up at 2h with the bug in mind and finally understood |
| 06:40.55 | Maloeran | I'll share the explanation tomorrow if you are curious Erik, that was... subtle. Hrm okay, I'll go sleep on the fix now |
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| 09:56.56 | brlcad | good times |
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| 15:50.19 | Maloeran | Gah, death to gprof with its complete lack of support for both threads and dlopen'ed libraries. Writing a profiler with GCC's -finstrument-functions seems so easy anyway |
| 15:50.53 | Maloeran | Won't be a match for the all mighty Shark, but gprof isn't hard to beat |
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| 16:15.48 | brlcad | mm.. Shark |
| 16:15.54 | brlcad | shark is sweet |
| 16:22.40 | dtidrow_work | ? |
| 16:22.43 | dtidrow_work | what is it? |
| 16:22.58 | Maloeran | The OSX profiler, amazingly good |
| 16:42.01 | dtidrow_work | ah |
| 16:43.42 | *** join/#brlcad docelic (i=docelic@ri02-209.dialin.iskon.hr) | |
| 16:50.10 | brlcad | one of the best profilers around, free or otherwise (and it's free) |
| 16:51.59 | brlcad | part of the apple "CHUD" tools (Computer Hardware Understanding Developer Tools) |
| 16:52.36 | ``Erik | http://www.macworld.com/news/2006/12/12/allchin/index.php |
| 16:52.37 | ``Erik | heh |
| 16:54.17 | brlcad | http://developer.apple.com/tools/shark_optimize.html |
| 16:54.35 | brlcad | and http://developer.apple.com/tools/sharkoptimize.html |
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| 16:54.49 | brlcad | and one i've not even tried yet.. http://developer.apple.com/tools/performance/optimizingwithsystemtrace.html |
| 16:57.51 | Maloeran | I read posts in mailing lists from 1999 to 2006 about gprof/glibc/kernel people blaming each other for the failures of gprof |
| 16:58.03 | Maloeran | No one agrees on what the "best" way is, so nothing gets done. Lovely! |
| 17:00.12 | brlcad | shark gets a lot of what it gets, erm most, from the system performance counters on the hardware |
| 17:00.25 | brlcad | which while not standard on x86 hardware, is on most newer systems |
| 17:00.37 | brlcad | but still something gprof knows pretty much nothing about |
| 17:01.19 | brlcad | projects like oprofile seem to be doing better at using the performance counters, but still have a ways to go |
| 17:01.20 | Maloeran | Yes I know. All I'm asking for is the sum of the time spent in functions, and I can't get that |
| 17:01.45 | brlcad | oprofile might do that much for you |
| 17:01.52 | brlcad | http://oprofile.sourceforge.net/about/ |
| 17:02.05 | Maloeran | Oprofile is system-wide and it requires a kernel driver |
| 17:02.24 | Maloeran | I didn't look further as it seemed overkill and inappropriate |
| 17:02.32 | brlcad | kernel module, you insmod it |
| 17:02.46 | brlcad | it gives the numbers you want: http://oprofile.sourceforge.net/examples/ |
| 17:03.21 | ``Erik | is shark on the intel chips yet? |
| 17:03.32 | brlcad | years ago afaik |
| 17:04.50 | Maloeran | Hrmph, then it's no good to see the reasons behind the prep's poor scalability |
| 17:05.40 | brlcad | what's no good? |
| 17:06.11 | brlcad | the chud tools have been available on the intel macs since the early beta days |
| 17:06.23 | Maloeran | I mean if Erik can't run it by lack of root |
| 17:06.33 | brlcad | ahh |
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| 17:07.27 | brlcad | he probably just needs to make a phone call or send an e-mail and that problem could probably go away |
| 17:10.36 | Maloeran | Ahah, about the name of the GNU BFD library : "The name came from a conversation David Wallace was having with Richard Stallman about the library: RMS said that it would be quite hard--David said "BFD". Stallman was right, but the name stuck." |
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| 17:13.41 | ``Erik | interesting, um, view choices |
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| 17:46.24 | Maloeran | oprofile: configure: error: Unsupported kernel version with 2.6.17 |
| 17:47.20 | Maloeran | Enough of this mess, I'll write a profiler in spare time |
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| 18:32.39 | ``Erik | commitcommitcommit |
| 18:32.42 | ``Erik | ho hum |
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| 18:50.25 | Maloeran | Are you sure it got enough ram for the truck? |
| 18:50.47 | Maloeran | It doesn't take that much once cached, but the prep climbs high |
| 20:26.48 | ``Erik | just the file |
| 20:27.29 | ``Erik | I'd hope a gig is enough... I mean, yeah, it's a slow old machine, but it's a slow old unix machine, not one of these pissant desktop crappers |
| 20:30.53 | Maloeran | Ah, neat. I'm not qualifying anything with 1gb ram of "crusty old" yet |
| 20:34.15 | ``Erik | hrm |
| 20:34.31 | ``Erik | this machine might be as old as your 486 heh |
| 20:35.22 | Maloeran | Oh :) |
| 20:37.54 | ``Erik | hm, no, I htink it's only 11 yrs old |
| 20:40.30 | ``Erik | hrmmmm, which is about when pc's were in the 8-16mb range |
| 20:40.31 | ``Erik | :) |
| 20:40.43 | Maloeran | It really amuses me to think that back on that 486, I could barely perform 5-6 fast assembly instructions per pixel to get smooth rendering |
| 20:40.58 | Maloeran | Now, tracing a ray for every pixel against 260k triangles? Ah, no problem |
| 20:41.10 | ``Erik | heh |
| 20:41.25 | ``Erik | you should install 'vice' and code on that some :) I learned a lot on a c64 |
| 20:41.59 | ``Erik | 'kernel' hacking, even, writing mnems (halfway between straight machine code and asm) and pointing the interrupt vector to my new code |
| 20:42.46 | Maloeran | I love optimisation but I'm not too fond of OS stuff. I had written a primitive 32 bits DOS on that 486 |
| 20:43.05 | Maloeran | It could run *some* DOS software within a very primitive multitasking 32 bits OS |
| 20:45.36 | Maloeran | I still keep pieces of old code... Hum, my old DOS isometric tile rendering engine with lighting optimized in assembly for 486/Pentium, I got to read that again sometimes |
| 20:46.05 | Maloeran | :( How so, why? |
| 20:46.13 | ``Erik | was moving several thousand miles |
| 20:46.29 | ``Erik | so dumped a lot of unnecessary possessions |
| 20:46.30 | Maloeran | Well, disks, you can at least bring that |
| 20:46.49 | ``Erik | yeah, but without the drives and computers, they're useless |
| 20:47.40 | Maloeran | The time I lost most of my code was when my father "threw" me out of the house for quitting college, many years ago |
| 20:47.47 | ``Erik | (back then, not only did every os have its own filesystem, but the very nature of disk layout was different bewteen machines and needed their own drives) |
| 20:48.19 | ``Erik | so even if you wrote an appleII or dos program to read a c64 fs, it'd still just get garbage off of the media |
| 20:48.42 | Maloeran | Really? I thought it was possible for some drives, not x86 floppy drives though |
| 20:48.45 | ``Erik | I've seen some hacks for making hw do unnatural things like that, yeah |
| 20:49.03 | ``Erik | but *shrug* hadn't when I pitched the machines... |
| 20:49.24 | ``Erik | yard sale, actually, didn't throw them out, heh |
| 20:49.32 | ``Erik | my mom sold 'em :/ |
| 20:49.36 | Maloeran | You didn't bury them in the woods and marked down the gps coodinates or anything? :) |
| 20:49.40 | Maloeran | Ew. |
| 20:52.30 | Maloeran | Ah, old good times on that 486... Adding one fast assembly instruction per pixel could reduce performance by some 20%, that was amusing optimisation |
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| 05:48.58 | Maloeran | Erik, when compiling on x86 without optimisation, GCC doesn't preserve the function stack alignement on 16 bytes so stuff breaks |
| 05:49.19 | Maloeran | Where should I stick -mpreferred-stack-boundary=4 ? |
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| 14:12.56 | ``Erik | I'd imagine in autoconf, after checking if it makes sense |
| 14:26.34 | ``Erik | heh http://jeremy.zawodny.com/blog/archives/008122.html |
| 14:29.54 | Maloeran | Weird, weird... |
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| 22:23.41 | ``Erik | a2/det |
| 22:30.25 | Maloeran | http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/science/nature/6212716.stm - Impressive little things |
| 23:30.12 | dtidrow_work | http://www.irf.se/allsky/rtascirf.html - some pretty vivid auroral activity right now :-) |
| 23:33.17 | Maloeran | Noooo... Curse, I just found a more efficient solution for quad volume tracing, way too many improvements are piled up |
| 23:33.27 | Maloeran | "The neverending to-do list" |
| 23:35.58 | ``Erik | heh, mark 'em with priority and deadline to keep 'em straight, dude :) |
| 23:36.25 | ``Erik | <-- working on a hardcore todolist/projectmgmt program lately o.O |
| 23:36.27 | ``Erik | for shits&giggles |
| 23:36.31 | ``Erik | cuz I'm sick int he head |
| 23:36.49 | Maloeran | Ohh, sounds hardcore indeed |
| 23:37.13 | ``Erik | heh |
| 23:37.57 | ``Erik | the coding isn't hardcore, how it treats that and what the goals are (and how they differ from apparently absolutely everything else in the field) is what's interesting :) |
| 23:38.55 | ``Erik | the ugly guts basically is a realtime scheduler type ting |
| 23:38.56 | ``Erik | thing |
| 23:39.11 | ``Erik | with a faggy gui on top for stupid humans |
| 23:39.23 | ``Erik | instead of being wired into OS process mgmt... |
| 23:39.23 | ``Erik | :) |
| 23:40.21 | Maloeran | Ah, I have no project management skills whatsoever, always worked alone and on what I felt like |
| 23:40.32 | ``Erik | you still have to manage your own time |
| 23:40.51 | Maloeran | I do? I'm not doing too good at that lately |
| 23:41.01 | ``Erik | and understand the dependancy graph of what you have to do, and how that feeds into deadlines, resources, etc |
| 23:41.27 | ``Erik | well, *shrug* I'm not saying anyhting about the quality, but it's still done, even if it's intuitive and entirely in your head |
| 23:41.52 | ``Erik | personally, I feel like I have 20 zillion little things to take care of with complicated dependancy and context terrain associated... |
| 23:41.57 | ``Erik | and it depresses me, so I end up doing nothing |
| 23:42.03 | Maloeran | Ahah |
| 23:42.31 | ``Erik | so I want a tool to reduce the amount of information I have to cope with in my forebrain |
| 23:43.02 | Maloeran | Right. I basically scrub that on pieces of paper lying around |
| 23:43.17 | ``Erik | yeah, heh, I'd have a fucking book |
| 23:43.18 | ``Erik | :( |
| 23:43.41 | Maloeran | That bad? Ew. |
| 23:44.43 | ``Erik | <- involved with dozens of 'projects' at work and dozens away |
| 23:46.53 | ``Erik | seriously, dude, we need to get some X's in the "done" column so satiate the pointy hairs and purse string holders :) |
| 23:48.32 | ``Erik | mmmmm, vodka o.O |
| 23:51.28 | Maloeran | All right, I hope no one is going to complain about performance before I had a chance to go through my neverending to-do list |
| 23:52.00 | Maloeran | Any clue if Lee expects better performance soon, or he was "satisfied"? |
| 23:54.16 | ``Erik | um, I'm under the impression that he was amazed at the performance on my desktop |
| 23:54.46 | ``Erik | well, write it down real quick, like in your todo file |
| 23:55.01 | ``Erik | see if you can bang out enough to mark off the milestones until now |
| 23:55.10 | ``Erik | then do the new solution |
| 23:55.42 | ``Erik | if we both agree that a milestone is "done", then it's done, it doesn't have to be 100% perfect, there's always polish at the end |
| 23:56.15 | ``Erik | and when it's "all done", we're gonna slap it into some "real" applications, and if it's nifty, more work on it may be requested :) |
| 23:56.42 | Maloeran | Understood :) |
| 23:57.57 | Maloeran | Hrm, just to clarify a point, did you mean Lee was amazed at the non-sse transparency? |
| 23:58.10 | ``Erik | ummmm |
| 23:58.19 | ``Erik | I think I was running it on the quad opteron fbsd box |
| 23:58.27 | Maloeran | SSE path was commited today, but it's still lacking optimisation |
| 23:58.34 | ``Erik | and remote-X to my mac |
| 23:58.55 | ``Erik | ok, I showed him yesterday or day before |
| 23:59.17 | ``Erik | I need to get adrt/isst up and running |
| 23:59.34 | ``Erik | and we need to figure out an appropriate "benchmark" comparison between the two |
| 00:01.53 | Maloeran | Agreed, the truck would do |
| 04:30.08 | Maloeran | Ah, Google Earth has a Linux x86 binary now, it's about time I try that thing |
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| 12:12.50 | CIA-5 | BRL-CAD: 03d_rossberg * 10brlcad/misc/win32-msvc/Dll/brlcad.def: |
| 12:12.50 | CIA-5 | BRL-CAD: Changed smooth_bot to bot_smooth inorder to match other bot commands and functions. |
| 12:12.50 | CIA-5 | BRL-CAD: (mjgillich) |
| 14:07.24 | ``Erik | "inorder" *snicker* |
| 14:08.27 | archivist | its a new word |
| 14:09.09 | ``Erik | even worse than "alot" |
| 15:37.41 | ``Erik | http://video.on.nytimes.com/ifr_main.jsp?nsid=a718aabc2:10f868fb86f:6dca&fr_story=d14603c1e23e6ce37920a8134a2e27b1405a4991&st=1166196732850&mp=FLV&cpf=false&fvn=8&fr=121506_103212_718aabc2x10f868fb86fx6dcb&rdm=718952.4941765041 |
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| 16:24.19 | clock_ | preorder, postorder, inorder - what's wrong on the inorder word? |
| 16:25.21 | archivist | its a fugly word and should be in-order |
| 16:25.57 | clock_ | Meine Name ist Guenter Fernseher. |
| 16:26.15 | clock_ | Germans puts words together without space |
| 16:27.12 | archivist | german are strange the way they build words |
| 16:36.09 | clock_ | In Hawaii, do they use a palm tree for a christmas tree? |
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| 14:43.23 | CIA-5 | BRL-CAD: 03johnranderson * 10brlcad/src/librtserver/rtserver.c: shootray method now sets ray index to zero to avoid confusion with bundle rays |
| 14:44.37 | brlcad | ahh, so that's why... |
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| 18:30.44 | ``Erik | *yawn* |
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| 20:41.51 | CIA-5 | BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/doc/ (README.AIX README.IRIX README.VAX README.Windows): Documentation updates/fixes courtesy of Brian Rapp. |
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| 22:57.43 | ``Erik | linux is as linux does? :D |
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| 01:45.36 | Maloeran | Hey Erik, I understand you spoke to Lee about my "needs" for multi-cache boxes, who spoke to Mark, who came back to me speaking of sending a computer?... |
| 01:46.28 | Maloeran | Is there some hope of seeing that old box at home of yours put online? That would be easier and less wasteful |
| 02:36.47 | ``Erik | the sun? that'd take a few hundred bucks to get operational, I think |
| 02:36.56 | ``Erik | it's been gutted... no cpu, no ram, no drive |
| 02:38.12 | ``Erik | <-- can't give you an account on any of his work machines due to policy... if mark has access, I d'no if he'd be able to give you an account |
| 03:12.14 | Twingy | I have an ultra sparc that's operational |
| 03:15.29 | Maloeran | Neat Justin, how many processors in there? |
| 03:16.56 | Maloeran | Erik, it's apparently more expensive in man hours to type "adduser" on a box than purchase a new one. I haven't figured that one yet |
| 03:17.40 | Twingy | 200 MHz ultrasparc 1 w/ 128MB RAM |
| 03:18.50 | Maloeran | One processor? |
| 03:19.04 | Twingy | correct |
| 03:19.56 | Maloeran | Eheh, thanks though unfortunately the point is mostly to be able to test code on many cores |
| 03:20.33 | Maloeran | To find bugs due to non-shared cache, work on scalability, explore NUMA memory allocation, etc. |
| 03:27.55 | Maloeran | Ah, Bush considers "more marines" as the solution in Iraq. When will someone explain to him the difference between marines and peacekeepers, social workers? |
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| 21:36.26 | ``Erik | must be one hell of a breakfast |
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| 23:32.48 | Music_Shuffle | Hi. |
| 23:32.53 | Music_Shuffle | Anyone here? |
| 23:33.13 | ``Erik | nope |
| 23:33.17 | Music_Shuffle | ./Ding. |
| 23:33.22 | Music_Shuffle | A quick CAD hardware question. |
| 23:33.53 | Music_Shuffle | Why is CAD so...demanding? |
| 23:33.59 | Music_Shuffle | Sorry, was wondering about the phrasing :P |
| 23:34.18 | Music_Shuffle | Hardware wise. |
| 23:34.18 | brlcad | you mean just in general? |
| 23:34.21 | Music_Shuffle | Yeah. |
| 23:34.40 | Music_Shuffle | Like workstations for CAD have huge amount of RAM, SCSI HDD's, Xeon's, etc, etc. |
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| 23:35.04 | Music_Shuffle | I've never used CAD software, but I've always wondered why it requires so much...power. For lack ofa better term. |
| 23:35.04 | brlcad | it's not incredibly demanding, imho, but in general the models are massive and the computation requirements to process those models are more than you have on a workstation |
| 23:35.30 | Music_Shuffle | Oh, so you're saying that it just ends up being so huge, that regardless of complexity, you need a lot of power just to be able to manipulate it? |
| 23:35.47 | brlcad | even compared to something like a game, CAD models (at least "real" ones) are intensely more complicated than any gaming model, plenty won't fit onto OpenGL memory |
| 23:36.06 | Music_Shuffle | Err...more complicated how? |
| 23:36.11 | brlcad | right, manipulation, visualization, consistency/topology checking |
| 23:36.37 | Music_Shuffle | Oh right, because the game physics don't have to actually WORK. |
| 23:36.39 | ``Erik | I d'no if I'd call a xeon a workstation |
| 23:36.39 | Music_Shuffle | Mm. |
| 23:36.48 | Music_Shuffle | Why not? >.> |
| 23:36.48 | brlcad | well in a game, you only have to care that something looks nice -- there's lots of tricks to get that result -- in CAD you have all that same external detail, if not more, as well as all of the internal geometry |
| 23:37.01 | ``Erik | in general, "workstations" historically have bunches of ram and scsi disk, been that way since workstations were kinda born... |
| 23:37.03 | brlcad | which might be wires, bolts, nuts, pipes, engine blocks, etc |
| 23:37.13 | ``Erik | wintel boxes and other "home toys" were HIGHLY abnormal in the grand scheme of things |
| 23:37.45 | Music_Shuffle | So most of today's CAD systems run what? |
| 23:38.01 | ``Erik | huh? |
| 23:38.20 | Music_Shuffle | CPU-wise. Is it mostly Xeons, Opterons, any specific? |
| 23:38.46 | ``Erik | most have a set of archs they run on... x86 tending to be included these days |
| 23:39.18 | brlcad | also when you're dealing with solid modeling CAD, which is a subset of CAD but one of the largest domains, the software has an additional workload of repeatedly evaluating the geometry to make sure it's topologically sound, that parametric contraints are upheld/updated if they exist, that overlaps/interferences are detected, that you don't end up with non-solid geometry |
| 23:39.47 | ``Erik | too many syllables, I'm on vacation o.O :D back to simpsons for me |
| 23:39.56 | Music_Shuffle | Lol! |
| 23:40.04 | archivist | and interference checking |
| 23:40.09 | Music_Shuffle | Oh ok. |
| 23:40.42 | Music_Shuffle | So pretty much its caused by needing to model reality in its entirety using software. |
| 23:41.20 | archivist | oops missed it |
| 23:41.37 | ``Erik | I mean, graphic artists (like the people making posters and books and stuff) tend to have gobs of ram on their desktop |
| 23:42.06 | brlcad | i wish these laptops went higher than 2GB.. i'm constantly out of memory |
| 23:42.12 | ``Erik | brlcad: how many gigs did you blow over with a typesetting program? |
| 23:43.40 | ``Erik | (and video games tend to punt on huge parts of the dataset to make it usable on lesser systems... I mean, take a look at 'roam' and 'vipm' and how they are designed to page off of disk so only the closest stuff is a high LOD) |
| 23:43.52 | ``Erik | especially roam o.O heh |
| 23:44.14 | Music_Shuffle | lol |
| 23:44.27 | ``Erik | not to mention other hacks like faking normals on highly decimated meshes so they kinda sorta appear more complex |
| 23:44.37 | brlcad | swap is currently at just under 15GB.. looks like the book i'm working on is using up a little over 3GB |
| 23:45.00 | Music_Shuffle | Fif...teen? |
| 23:45.04 | ``Erik | (it's all moving, so the human brain fixes the fuckups in videogames... in manufacturing or analysis, the fuckups are unacceptable) |
| 23:45.34 | Music_Shuffle | Right, that nasty bit about stuff breaking, falling, going boom, etc. |
| 23:46.20 | brlcad | yep, 15... and I don't even have a CAD model open right now .. that'd be a few more GB to worry about :) |
| 23:46.47 | Music_Shuffle | Mmm...what do you do with 15 gigs of swap? >_< |
| 23:46.53 | Twingy | <PROTECTED> |
| 23:47.35 | brlcad | though mged is pretty light on the memory usage overhead.. uses just a little more in memory than it takes to store it on disk, maybe 2X-10X disk size if it's going to be analyzed or raytraced, depending on the model |
| 23:48.38 | brlcad | Music_Shuffle: mostly a ton of image processing right now -- putting together a print-quality book, lots of high-resolution imagery, several image processing apps in the workflow |
| 23:48.48 | Music_Shuffle | Ahh ok |
| 23:48.51 | Music_Shuffle | You're writing a book? :o |
| 23:49.05 | brlcad | and of course this terminal running an irc client.. gotta be adding at least 10MB to the mix *ahem* |
| 23:49.06 | ``Erik | "20 years of playboy centefolds" |
| 23:49.13 | brlcad | woot |
| 23:49.19 | Music_Shuffle | Lol |
| 23:49.22 | ``Erik | that's the book, right? :D |
| 23:49.24 | brlcad | hmm.. 20 years.. |
| 23:49.45 | ``Erik | 240 girls too much? |
| 23:50.05 | ``Erik | I mean, a couple pages each... sounds like a lovely coffee table book... |
| 23:50.12 | ``Erik | perfect gift for friends and family |
| 00:15.36 | ``Erik | "cad uses more ram than quake, wwwaaaahhhhhhhh" |
| 00:15.38 | ``Erik | *cougH* |
| 00:15.39 | ``Erik | O:-) |
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| 03:23.05 | Maloeran | Ah, a torrent website figures out in the top 10 search terms of Google |
| 03:25.31 | brlcad | heh |
| 03:28.27 | Twingy | woo woo woo woo *bonks brlcad on the head 3 stooges style* |
| 04:12.16 | brlcad | knyuck knyuck knyuck wise-guy, eh? |
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| 16:01.03 | ``Erik | o.O |
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| 16:14.23 | ``Erik | hah |
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| 16:35.43 | Maloeran | Merry monday and a happy new week! |
| 16:43.51 | Maloeran | On this special day, let's hope and rationalize on dreams of harmony between managers and programmers in the troubled regions of our world |
| 16:47.36 | ``Erik | and happy hellidays and all that :) |
| 16:49.20 | ``Erik | oh, btw, from some quick&dirty testing, you're in the neighborhood of 40x faster (I haven't done a REAL benchmark comparison, just pulled some quick numbers... different geometry, but I think it's reasonably similar in occlusion and complexity)... bear in mind, you'll slow down once you put in hooks for distributed |
| 16:49.43 | Maloeran | 40 times faster than the old libRT? |
| 16:49.51 | ``Erik | I'm rigging up a fbsd box with a funny compiler and X in a funny place, just to see what happens when I try to build all the ports |
| 16:49.52 | ``Erik | adrt |
| 16:50.02 | Maloeran | 40 times faster than adrt? What the... |
| 16:50.06 | ``Erik | librt gets 30krps on a good day, heh |
| 16:50.50 | Maloeran | I'm writing state synchronisation at the moment, for distributed processing. Distributed processing shouldn't be too much of a hit with (very) good bandwidth |
| 16:50.50 | ``Erik | quick and dirty numbers.. may be a whole order of magnitude off ;) I was looking at some old scalability graph info |
| 16:51.16 | ``Erik | how good is "(very) good"? gigE? ib? myri? |
| 16:51.24 | ``Erik | or does 100base count? |
| 16:51.47 | Maloeran | It all depends of the task, how much data there is to send back to the master node ; just raw pixels, or intersection coordinates and so on? |
| 16:52.04 | Maloeran | Raw pixels shouldn't scale too bad with some compression |
| 16:52.49 | Maloeran | I'm still working on state synchronisation, so that all operations on the state of the master node is propagated to the other nodes ; any new node can connect to the master at any time too, and its state is sync'ed |
| 16:52.50 | ``Erik | ummmm, I'm not sure... the end application kinda needs in and out coordinates, with their component |
| 16:53.17 | Maloeran | But what for? Can't it use these coordinates on the remote node, and just send back the result? |
| 16:53.53 | Maloeran | Sending results of computations based on the raytracing is clearly _much_ lighter, usually |
| 16:53.54 | ``Erik | it's supposed to be integrated easily with another app... which expects a segment list |
| 16:54.05 | ``Erik | obviously, but it has to talk with a brain dead app |
| 16:54.10 | Maloeran | Can't this other app run its "shader" code remotely? |
| 16:54.23 | ``Erik | nope |
| 16:54.30 | ``Erik | :/ it's retarded |
| 16:54.32 | Maloeran | Transfering raw raytracing results will kill performance badly |
| 16:54.38 | Maloeran | Gah! Rewrite that :p |
| 16:54.40 | ``Erik | it tries to be the center of the universe |
| 16:54.44 | ``Erik | not mine to rewrite... heh |
| 16:54.57 | ``Erik | the, uh, horror project was an attempt to rewrite it |
| 16:55.04 | Maloeran | Oh, I see |
| 16:55.05 | ``Erik | brlcad isn't dumb enough to touch it ;) |
| 16:55.29 | ``Erik | we did put some of the, um, application into adrt and got really good results |
| 16:56.00 | ``Erik | naturally, that'll be something to try down the road with rayforce... but the way we got the pointy hairs to sign off and throw money was by talking the retarded language of the retarded... people... |
| 16:56.01 | ``Erik | :) |
| 16:56.20 | Maloeran | Eh, typical :) |
| 16:56.33 | ``Erik | that's the real world for ya, dude :( |
| 16:56.37 | Maloeran | The code lying on top of rayforce must be fixed to be distributed too, seriously |
| 16:56.50 | ``Erik | um |
| 16:56.54 | ``Erik | it, uhhh, sorta kinda is... |
| 16:56.56 | Maloeran | You can't distribute half of the processing and expect good results, transfering all half-way results back to the master node |
| 16:57.06 | ``Erik | but it was done by the same dude who did the distributed processing for the hell project |
| 16:57.23 | ``Erik | so the scalability goes to about 2 nodes... 3 nodes costs more th an 1 |
| 16:57.24 | Maloeran | That's what I'm writing state sync'ing for in mind, intelligent use of the library |
| 16:57.29 | ``Erik | from what I'm told |
| 16:57.46 | Maloeran | Ah, sounds like my model prep threads :), I'll fix that though |
| 16:57.50 | ``Erik | (and the hell project... 2 nodes costs more than 1) |
| 16:57.55 | Maloeran | Ahahahaha |
| 16:57.59 | ``Erik | except the app is almost totally distributable... |
| 16:58.14 | Maloeran | That is so wrong |
| 16:58.25 | ``Erik | the "hard part" that he couldn't figure out was ordering the results for the output... and, y'know... dir... catch 'em out of order and bin them in a tree or something |
| 16:59.08 | ``Erik | it's a sad state of affairs |
| 16:59.13 | ``Erik | but, y'know, fuck it, I'm on vacation |
| 16:59.25 | Maloeran | I have no idea what the horror project is actually meant to do, but it really has to be properly re-written, in real programming languages by competent people |
| 17:01.27 | ``Erik | hm, doesn't even need to be properly re-written, or in a real programming language... I did a day hack on librt that was outrunning the original C version and the new java version by several orders of magnitude... |
| 17:01.36 | ``Erik | using... librt... the slow csg one... :D |
| 17:01.37 | Maloeran | Seriously, I'm writing state synchronisation for intelligent use of the library, where the user will run "shaders" remotely and return packed high-level results ; this is not low-level distributed processing, where rays are traced remotely and results returned |
| 17:01.46 | Maloeran | That would use soooo much bandwidth, it's unthinkable |
| 17:02.32 | ``Erik | I'm thinking when I get back to the office, I'll have to write a lame 'workalike' to the retarded app and wire rf and adrt into it |
| 17:02.48 | ``Erik | something I can give you so you can see what data needs moved around |
| 17:03.37 | ``Erik | <-- doesn't go back until the 9th though |
| 17:04.19 | Maloeran | I see, okay. "Vacation" or "work" are pretty much the same to me |
| 17:05.00 | ``Erik | used to be for me... *shrug* |
| 17:05.19 | ``Erik | I went and got old... I have personal projects to do in my 'vacation' time :) |
| 17:05.58 | Maloeran | Ah such pretexes, I'm sure it's just that the work projects aren't interesting enough :) |
| 17:05.58 | ``Erik | generally not little "tweak it for a few % gain" stuff, but good old forward thinking stuff... gotta keep it very seperate, so if I decide to try to make some $'s, there's no issues ;) |
| 17:06.45 | ``Erik | and, yeah, I steer towards very high level languages... harder to tweak, but hard problems become easy and impossible ones become tractable O:-D |
| 17:07.28 | Maloeran | Pfft :), assembly gets so easy to debug with some practice *cough* |
| 17:08.07 | Maloeran | I look forward to writing assembly pipelines, eventually, I want my extra 20-30% |
| 17:08.18 | ``Erik | yeah, but take a skilled person in asm vs a skilled person in, say, scheme or lithp... or smalltalk... or erlang... or ml... |
| 17:08.30 | ``Erik | give a task, see who has a working solution first |
| 17:09.07 | ``Erik | if I can do in a few weeks what'd take a decade in asm, fuck, I'll do it in a few weeks... and the problems that interest me tend NOT to be cpu bound |
| 17:09.09 | ``Erik | :) |
| 17:09.35 | Maloeran | :) Sure, I know |
| 17:09.51 | ``Erik | <-- exploring huge scheduling stuff with hierarchal notions and dependancies |
| 17:10.01 | Maloeran | Even for "high-level" tasks, I hardly move away from C though, it's just too fluent in comparison to my Lisp |
| 17:10.13 | ``Erik | and adequate graph reduction to keep the working set tiny |
| 17:10.30 | ``Erik | obviously you know that fluency can only be gained and retained by exercise :) |
| 17:10.58 | Maloeran | I know :), but C has the upper hand in performance, and I'm not sure Lisp would be that much faster to write |
| 17:11.10 | ``Erik | in that case, you should write fortran code |
| 17:11.15 | Maloeran | Since I already got so much C code I reuse for everyhing related to memory management, and so on |
| 17:11.22 | ``Erik | heh |
| 17:11.41 | ``Erik | lithp does its own memory management... your C is superfluous. |
| 17:11.52 | Maloeran | I would bet mine is faster |
| 17:11.59 | ``Erik | mebbe |
| 17:12.12 | ``Erik | lisp compilers tend to make pretty tight memory pools |
| 17:12.38 | ``Erik | I wouldn't be surprised if your memory stuff was fairly similar to a lot of memory stuff in lisp, scheme, perl, etc |
| 17:13.06 | ``Erik | you might have an advantage by JUST pooling and not doing gc |
| 17:13.07 | Maloeran | Perhaps so, but the memory management part is solved either way |
| 17:13.31 | ``Erik | well, actually, you do reference counting |
| 17:13.42 | ``Erik | so technically, you do have gc... you just blow up if you go cyclic |
| 17:13.48 | ``Erik | blow up or permanently l eak |
| 17:14.14 | Maloeran | That's a code flaw easily tracked and fixed |
| 17:15.01 | Maloeran | Understood, hence why C performs better and why I use it |
| 17:15.13 | Maloeran | If we had Lisp chips, I might well switch over |
| 17:15.24 | ``Erik | be interesting to see a high level language designed by someone with intimate knowledge of modern hw |
| 17:15.38 | ``Erik | C is very tightly bound to the pdp11 chip, dude |
| 17:15.55 | Maloeran | Personally, I use whatever language maps to the underlying hardware well, delivering proper performance and control |
| 17:16.11 | ``Erik | lisp was pretty rocking on certain pdp's where "complex" operations were single clock |
| 17:16.18 | ``Erik | like, car/cdr pairs |
| 17:16.22 | ``Erik | just a register access |
| 17:16.27 | Maloeran | car/cdr? |
| 17:16.31 | ``Erik | cons? one load |
| 17:16.44 | ``Erik | umm, yeah? |
| 17:16.54 | ``Erik | uhhhhhhhh, "head" and "tail"? |
| 17:17.08 | ``Erik | (car '(a b c)) -> a |
| 17:17.13 | Maloeran | Ah yes, as in Lisp |
| 17:17.16 | ``Erik | (cdr '(a b c)) -> '(b c) |
| 17:17.21 | Maloeran | I was thinking of assembly instruction names |
| 17:17.26 | ``Erik | they, uh |
| 17:17.27 | ``Erik | are |
| 17:17.31 | ``Erik | assembly instruction names |
| 17:17.32 | ``Erik | ... |
| 17:17.36 | ``Erik | on the pdp1 |
| 17:17.39 | Maloeran | *nods* Not on the archs I know :) |
| 17:17.41 | ``Erik | or was it 8 |
| 17:18.22 | Maloeran | Really, your position is that Lisp would be great if the chips were meant for it, and I don't contest that |
| 17:18.22 | ``Erik | basically addressing like ah and al out of an ax, if you can stomach my archaic 16b 386 terminology |
| 17:18.33 | Maloeran | But reality is a bit different these days... |
| 17:18.42 | ``Erik | my position is ALSO that C would be great if the chips were meant for it |
| 17:18.47 | ``Erik | and I don't think the chips are meant for it |
| 17:19.01 | Maloeran | Chips are a lot closer to C than Lisp, at least |
| 17:19.16 | ``Erik | I'm not so sure about that |
| 17:19.21 | Maloeran | C with GCC's built-in pseudo-functions, C extensions and intrinsics is fairly decent |
| 17:19.35 | ``Erik | naive implementations of lisp and C, the c will probably come out a fair bit better |
| 17:20.11 | ``Erik | but it's a translation problem, one that is unfortunately being worked on by more C people than other language people |
| 17:20.11 | Maloeran | Compilers aren't known to ever do a great job, no matter the language |
| 17:20.13 | ``Erik | *shrug* |
| 17:20.34 | ``Erik | and cpu run time is kinda a fairly minor aspect of the cost of computing, anyways |
| 17:21.11 | Maloeran | That's highly variable, but I always played with cpu intensive code, personally |
| 17:21.28 | ``Erik | so you're in an odd niche :) |
| 17:21.44 | Maloeran | I'm fine with that :) |
| 17:22.12 | ``Erik | most code these days sits around with its thumb up its ass waiting for the stupid human to respond |
| 17:22.27 | ``Erik | and another large bulk of code is ran very infrequently, maybe once ever... |
| 17:22.53 | ``Erik | spending developer time doing petty bookkeeping with C or asm is... illogical in those situations |
| 17:23.03 | Maloeran | Agreed, of course |
| 17:23.35 | ``Erik | use something that gets a working product to the machine as quickly as possible... unfortunately, too many people lock themselves into a certain tract of programming and don't explore adequately... |
| 17:24.03 | ``Erik | too many java programmers don't know jack shit about C, so they don't understand how to use the machine in funny ways to make things easy and simple |
| 17:24.10 | Maloeran | I'm interested by computers for doing intense processing for simulations or other number crunching, pretty bookkeeping does not interest me the slightest |
| 17:24.37 | ``Erik | and too many C programmers never gain a strong fluency in something like lithp, so they never understand the fu of real macros or full number towers |
| 17:25.12 | ``Erik | dude, you write a memory mgmt library... you're trying to work to abstract the petty bookkeeping |
| 17:25.13 | ``Erik | :) |
| 17:25.22 | Maloeran | This elegance can get in the way of efficiency too |
| 17:25.26 | ``Erik | and walking right into greenspuns 10th law in the process |
| 17:25.32 | ``Erik | *shrug* |
| 17:25.47 | ``Erik | I'd rather write a program really quickly in a high level language... |
| 17:25.55 | ``Erik | figure out how I can make the algorithms better to make it faster |
| 17:26.05 | ``Erik | and THEN start reducing the 'expensive' parts to lower languages |
| 17:26.11 | ``Erik | like portabe pdp assembly, er, uh, I mean, C |
| 17:26.11 | Maloeran | It isn't always about processor time efficiency, there are Java programs eating gigabytes of ram |
| 17:26.23 | ``Erik | heh, true... that's just... wrong |
| 17:26.38 | ``Erik | java is an excellent example of how to do everything wrong |
| 17:26.45 | Maloeran | Eheh, exactly |
| 17:26.46 | ``Erik | almost as bad as c# |
| 17:27.43 | ``Erik | <-- notes that lisp lived in a land where 4k of ram was considered huge, with heavy computation theory background... calling java up as a counter argument is just a low blow and wrong |
| 17:28.10 | Maloeran | Ahah |
| 17:28.36 | ``Erik | :) |
| 17:28.56 | Maloeran | Ew.. Yes I noticed that. You'll find me weird, but I'm not comfortable with any language where I can't be sure what assembly the compiler will spit out |
| 17:29.26 | Maloeran | I like writing C, look at any chunk of assembly and know exactly where I am in the software |
| 17:29.37 | ``Erik | you can see the output of lithp in asm or machine code if you want |
| 17:29.51 | Maloeran | Sure, I don't think I'm neglecting algorithmic optimisations |
| 17:29.54 | ``Erik | lithp is primarily a compiled language, if all else fails, hit it with a decompiler |
| 17:30.05 | ``Erik | and I use some scheme compilers that output C |
| 17:30.06 | ``Erik | *shrug* |
| 17:30.14 | ``Erik | don't confuse the language with the evaluation mechanism :D |
| 17:31.07 | ``Erik | (of course, chicken's C output is eye bleeding horrible, heh... good&naive... gcc doesn't seem too upset about it, though) |
| 17:32.07 | Maloeran | Eh now, the output of properly written C isn't that bad :) |
| 17:32.37 | Maloeran | Compilers remain stupid, but considering the amount of work that has been put in GCC, I don't expect other non-gcc languages to perform better |
| 17:33.19 | ``Erik | heh, but I could put a trivial amount of effort into an assembler |
| 17:33.28 | ``Erik | and it could perform better, provided a competent assembly programmer |
| 17:33.30 | ``Erik | :) |
| 17:33.47 | ``Erik | and I still view assembyl as fairly compiled, I used to do mnems on the c64 o.O |
| 17:34.23 | Maloeran | Indeed, but Lisp is farther than C from assembly considering the current hardware ; more work for the compiler = poorer code |
| 17:34.37 | ``Erik | I don't know about that |
| 17:35.03 | Maloeran | So much work put in GCC, yet it just seems to stupid sometimes... I really have the impression I could write better |
| 17:35.17 | Maloeran | It isnt the optimisation that bothers me, it's all the higher-level parsing and stuff |
| 17:35.38 | Maloeran | so* stupid |
| 17:35.42 | ``Erik | I'm not big on common lisp... but lisp 1.5 has almost every single language component being a single fast opcode, I think |
| 17:36.03 | ``Erik | scheme has a good deal of that... but the way it's all written these days... :/ |
| 17:36.29 | ``Erik | a compiler to bytecode and a biteocde interpreter... written in C... usually not very well.. |
| 17:36.36 | ``Erik | which doesn't map cleanly to the machine |
| 17:36.58 | ``Erik | mebbe if I get time, I'll try to write a tight scheme->ml compiler for amd64 or something :) |
| 17:37.07 | ``Erik | ml as in machine language, not sml or ocaml |
| 17:37.33 | Maloeran | I'm secretly pleased that processor speeds are hitting a ceiling, perhaps people will rediscovere the value of efficient languages |
| 17:37.40 | Maloeran | rediscover* |
| 17:38.11 | ``Erik | nah, the notion of vectorization is coming back into fad... |
| 17:38.17 | ``Erik | can't make 'em faster, so mkae more of 'em... |
| 17:38.25 | ``Erik | pentium6 now with 1024 cores! |
| 17:38.38 | Maloeran | There's a big problem with that : it doesn't scale |
| 17:38.49 | ``Erik | vector computers in the 70's could do 4x4 matrix mults in one clock :/ |
| 17:39.06 | Maloeran | The more cores you have, the more in-cache synchronisation you require, it gets messy |
| 17:39.14 | ``Erik | it doesn't scale because: hw sucks. and programmers suck. |
| 17:39.14 | ``Erik | :) |
| 17:39.26 | Maloeran | Yes, instruction-level vectorization is great, but that's fairly low-level |
| 17:39.37 | Maloeran | Hence the added value to all low-level languages |
| 17:39.53 | ``Erik | only cuz the compiler writers... well... suck :D |
| 17:40.10 | Maloeran | Pfft, C has got all I need on that aspect :) |
| 17:40.55 | Maloeran | Our current x86/amd64 architectures are soo not meant to scale by adding new cores/processors |
| 17:41.25 | ``Erik | definitely not |
| 17:41.54 | ``Erik | I d'no much about amd64, but the x86 is a grotesque pile of shit with hacks built on it, shoulda died in the 70's |
| 17:42.07 | Maloeran | Which isn't a bad thing : we will be forced to leave x86 behind definitely, I hope! |
| 17:42.33 | ``Erik | ppc even has cruft and lameness built on, but it's *SO* much nicer |
| 17:42.46 | Maloeran | I want my arrays of 256 processors at 400mhz with a proper architecture to scale |
| 17:43.05 | ``Erik | I enjoyed the 6510 monitor/mnems... hated 386 asm... but really really liked r2k asm |
| 17:43.25 | ``Erik | 'proper arch' like numa? |
| 17:43.33 | ``Erik | hypercube? |
| 17:43.39 | ``Erik | or something 'new'? |
| 17:43.48 | Maloeran | Numa works somewhat, but I don't think it scales too well at a point |
| 17:43.49 | ``Erik | smp seems awful coarse |
| 17:44.09 | ``Erik | and if we have a metric assload of cores, why not go assymetric? |
| 17:44.14 | Maloeran | For each processor, the cache synchronisation circuitry keeps growing with the total count of processors |
| 17:44.23 | Maloeran | Exactly |
| 17:44.27 | ``Erik | yeah, I dedicated one of my 128 procs to manage the data motion... but... y'know? so what? |
| 17:45.25 | Maloeran | Personally, I would be an advocate of software-based memory and cache synchronisation |
| 17:45.53 | Maloeran | Let the programmer, the software manage memory ; it's too much complex circuitry for the hardware, it can't scale |
| 17:46.00 | ``Erik | I d'no.. hw mmu's made vm pracical |
| 17:46.03 | ``Erik | practical |
| 17:46.31 | ``Erik | and in the 60's, ibm's cpu's were microcode vm beasties, and amdhal made custom chips that smoked teh ibm things bigtime |
| 17:47.00 | ``Erik | (and yes. I really really dig computer history. A lot. I don't think you can really move forward until you REALLY understand the past.) |
| 17:47.45 | Maloeran | I agree with MMU, I'm just saying the software should explicitgely do "put X into that large shared memory bank so other processors will access it" |
| 17:48.03 | Maloeran | Rather than have the other processors ask "Hey, has anyone got that in their cache? Is that copy up-to-date?" |
| 17:48.16 | Maloeran | explicitely* |
| 17:48.52 | Maloeran | Each processor with its own memory, one or several shared memory banks, perhaps different levels |
| 17:49.40 | Maloeran | Software would have to be written differently in all aspects related to memory management, but that would scale as well as it can get |
| 17:59.26 | Maloeran | Dumb example : 256 processors, each got its memory bank X, each group of 16 processors has a shared bank Y, and a bank Z on top of all Y. All processors can DMA to/from the shared memory banks asynchroneously |
| 18:03.13 | ``Erik | hrm, y and z seem... silly... ever built hw? |
| 18:04.41 | Maloeran | How else would you scale shared memory? |
| 18:05.10 | ``Erik | (actually,if you look at an mmu on an smp system... each alu has its cache... if the data it needs isn't in its cache... it asks the next level... whihc, y'know, migh be l2 or might be main memory... or might by disk drive... so I guess it already does that, heh) |
| 18:05.18 | ``Erik | but every time you write to memory |
| 18:05.23 | ``Erik | it has to tell the l1 |
| 18:05.25 | ``Erik | and then the l2 |
| 18:05.28 | ``Erik | and then main memory |
| 18:05.33 | ``Erik | until there's a shared universal vm |
| 18:05.58 | Maloeran | But what if the up-to-date cache line isn't in main memory but in another processor cache? |
| 18:06.06 | ``Erik | um |
| 18:06.07 | Maloeran | That's a big issue on the non-scalability |
| 18:06.10 | ``Erik | if... |
| 18:06.13 | ``Erik | you write... memory... |
| 18:06.19 | ``Erik | it has to... IMMEDIATELY to all the way out |
| 18:06.36 | ``Erik | and the 'all the way out' (universal vm) cant' have other things dicking with it at the time |
| 18:07.00 | ``Erik | which is why you need a machine with multiple cores, so you can feel the pain firsthand :D |
| 18:07.26 | Maloeran | Got 2 cores with shared cache, eh well. I'll get something soon |
| 18:07.53 | ``Erik | it'd be rare that two cores with shared cache stomp on eachother TOO much |
| 18:07.57 | Maloeran | Trying to get SURVICE to switch over to direct deposit to avoid the 1 month delay for U.S. check deposit, then I could get it in a few days |
| 18:08.20 | ``Erik | something with multiple cores... something SLOW with multiple cores would help exasperate the issue |
| 18:08.28 | Maloeran | They still have to ensure coherency, due to the hardware rather than software synchronisation |
| 18:08.50 | ``Erik | mmu has such a notion :) |
| 18:08.56 | ``Erik | it's the gatekeeper of memory |
| 18:08.56 | Maloeran | If the hardware was to expect the software to explicitely state when something must imperatively be shared, we wouldn't have that problem |
| 18:10.05 | Maloeran | And a big memory bank with too many cores playing in it can't please any memory controller |
| 18:10.20 | Maloeran | Hence the idea of a bank per processor, plus shared banks |
| 18:11.48 | Maloeran | Hardware synchronisation makes it easy for the programmers, but it isn't friendly to hardware scalability at all |
| 18:13.11 | ``Erik | hw isn't magic, dude.. fo rthe most part, it just does what the os says |
| 18:13.46 | Maloeran | Hardware synchronisation between cpu caches isn't up to the OS |
| 18:13.54 | ``Erik | I mean, yeah, throw a lock, it goes down to the mmu |
| 18:13.57 | ``Erik | and it's reserved |
| 18:14.06 | ``Erik | uhmmm, no, it's facilitated by the os |
| 18:14.28 | ``Erik | it's up to the threading capability... pthreads in your case :) |
| 18:14.46 | ``Erik | if it was all up tto the hw, you'd never have locking issues or funky multi-threading bugs |
| 18:15.02 | ``Erik | throw the mmu lock by grabbing a mutex or something |
| 18:15.08 | ``Erik | dick with the memory |
| 18:15.30 | ``Erik | reads might be short, but iirc, writes are long |
| 18:16.04 | ``Erik | hrm |
| 18:16.12 | ``Erik | I'd have to re-read the material to remember |
| 18:17.08 | ``Erik | been too long :) |
| 18:17.14 | Maloeran | Perhaps so should I, but from my current knowledge, the current cache synchronisation between processors is a huge problem for scalability |
| 18:19.01 | Maloeran | The more total processors and memory banks you have in a Numa design, the more hypertransport links _each_ processor requires |
| 18:19.15 | ``Erik | ok, hypertransport is newer |
| 18:19.36 | ``Erik | but in old smp, the main memory was the primary information bridge... (the universal vm, actually... might be in swap) |
| 18:20.05 | ``Erik | so when you write, it has to fall all the way through to main memory... |
| 18:20.15 | ``Erik | hrm |
| 18:20.18 | ``Erik | now I'm confusing myself |
| 18:20.19 | ``Erik | o.O |
| 18:21.53 | Maloeran | We should write some raytracing hardware to clear things up, and accidentally design the future's memory model |
| 18:22.26 | ``Erik | hrm |
| 18:22.36 | ``Erik | ingo et al may've beaten you to that |
| 18:22.37 | ``Erik | :) |
| 18:23.11 | ``Erik | dr ingo wald... has a co iirc |
| 18:23.39 | ``Erik | openrt |
| 18:23.49 | Maloeran | Ah, doesn't mean we can't do better :) |
| 18:24.08 | ``Erik | heh |
| 18:24.14 | ``Erik | one thing I learned a while back |
| 18:24.20 | ``Erik | ther'es always someone there to do better |
| 18:25.06 | Maloeran | Is that an excuse not to do anythingy? :) |
| 18:25.11 | Maloeran | anything, rather |
| 18:25.40 | ``Erik | of course not |
| 18:25.52 | ``Erik | it's a reason to always do the best you can quickly, and always look for new horizons |
| 18:26.06 | ``Erik | stagnation will finish you :) |
| 18:26.17 | ``Erik | always strive to learn more, do more, be more... |
| 18:26.17 | ``Erik | :) |
| 18:27.19 | Maloeran | Or just strive to enjoy life, hoping these will naturally come as side-effects |
| 18:27.39 | ``Erik | perhaps |
| 18:27.40 | ``Erik | heh |
| 18:27.47 | ``Erik | honestly, that may be the path I'm more o n |
| 18:27.50 | ``Erik | more on |
| 18:27.53 | ``Erik | <-- moron o.O |
| 18:28.14 | ``Erik | or perhaps my goals are slightly less grandiose |
| 18:30.04 | Maloeran | To me, raytracing hardware would be really fun and new, any other objectives are a pretext |
| 18:30.33 | Maloeran | Pretexes that management might prefer to "It looks fun!" |
| 18:31.39 | Maloeran | Plus, we would have abundant time to argue about scalable memory models |
| 19:08.48 | Twingy | I want an Official Red Ryder Carbine-Action Two-Hundred-Shot Range Model Air Rifle! |
| 19:52.57 | *** join/#brlcad DanielFalck (n=dan@pool-71-111-98-172.ptldor.dsl-w.verizon.net) | |
| 23:25.19 | Maloeran | I think it's the first time I can ride a bicycle wearing just a shirt to attend christmas social gatherings |
| 03:07.52 | Twingy | s/humans/carbon based life forms? |
| 06:19.31 | *** join/#brlcad Twingy (n=justin@74.92.144.217) [NETSPLIT VICTIM] | |
| 14:02.43 | ``Erik | heh |
| 16:09.35 | *** join/#brlcad SWPadnos (n=Me@dsl245.esjtvtli.sover.net) | |
| 17:27.16 | Twingy | Robotic Deer to Fight Illegal Hunting |
| 17:27.24 | Twingy | ... |
| 17:32.56 | ``Erik | does it shoot back? |
| 17:33.19 | ``Erik | cuz that'd be kinda gnarly |
| 17:33.31 | ``Erik | heh, milton would come into work all bandaged up :D |
| 17:34.02 | Maloeran | Also disturbing : http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/south_asia/6209613.stm |
| 17:35.22 | ``Erik | heh |
| 17:37.50 | Maloeran | I'm trying to understand how the thing can be that slow, getting there slowly |
| 17:37.53 | ``Erik | hahahahaha |
| 17:38.12 | ``Erik | starting to understand the stupid at the lab? :D |
| 17:38.31 | Maloeran | I guess you could put it that way :) |
| 17:38.35 | ``Erik | call stacks so deep, they might as well be bottomless, repacking of data for shits and giggles, ... |
| 17:38.50 | Maloeran | And constant memory allocation/freeing... to shoot a single ray! |
| 17:39.09 | Maloeran | Memory allocation and free()ing just for _one_ ray! |
| 17:39.22 | ``Erik | uh huh |
| 17:39.29 | ``Erik | memory pools? what are those? |
| 17:39.43 | ``Erik | oh, but hell project is ALL about resource pools, the opposite extreme |
| 17:39.50 | Maloeran | Ahah |
| 17:40.06 | ``Erik | want to send data? don't keep your own socket... get one from the pool! oh, and when you've sent your FUCKING FOUR BYTES, put it back in the pool! |
| 17:40.44 | Maloeran | Ah, cool |
| 17:41.24 | ``Erik | I'll be, uh, very not here for the next week |
| 17:41.25 | ``Erik | :) |
| 17:41.42 | Maloeran | Girlfriend? |
| 17:41.47 | ``Erik | mmhmm |
| 17:42.18 | brlcad | erm |
| 17:42.25 | brlcad | librt doesn't repack data |
| 17:42.44 | ``Erik | heh |
| 17:42.45 | ``Erik | s2 sure does |
| 17:42.46 | brlcad | maybe some specific app foo does |
| 17:42.53 | brlcad | s2 does |
| 17:43.26 | brlcad | comparing what s2 does to an optimized ray-tracer isn't even apples to oranges |
| 17:43.38 | ``Erik | if it were built as a 'shader' and ran inside of a brlcad app, it'd be pretty damn fast, evne on librt |
| 17:43.58 | ``Erik | rf has to feed s2 :( that's how we got wendy to sign off on it, iirc |
| 17:44.10 | Maloeran | What is s2? |
| 17:44.29 | ``Erik | the old important app, the one the hell project is supposed to replace |
| 17:44.37 | brlcad | sure it'll eventually feed it, so yeah most of the performance benefit is going to get slaughtered |
| 17:44.48 | brlcad | but it'll still be an improvement for many cases |
| 17:45.04 | Maloeran | Any hope of just fixing/rewriting that s2 thing? |
| 17:45.37 | ``Erik | not really... twingy rewrote the build system to be MUCH better, and they didn't understand it, so they didn't accept it |
| 17:45.42 | brlcad | Maloeran: it's really not that simple -- there are a couple decades of feature-packing in there that has to be replicated |
| 17:46.00 | brlcad | any rewrite, even the one being attempted, can't replace that functionality in any time reasonbly soon |
| 17:46.15 | brlcad | akin to rewriting any major code base |
| 17:46.24 | ``Erik | they also fought plugging adrt into it tooth and nail... like, they compiled adrt with floats, librt with doubles, and refused to acceptt adrt because the output numbers weren't bit identical... durrrr |
| 17:46.26 | brlcad | it's rather naive to think it just takes a simple rewrite |
| 17:47.09 | ``Erik | dude, I think 90% of that project is unnecessary fluff, crap left over from dirty hacks that just dont' get used... based on mrb output and talking to analysts, it might really be a 'simple rewrite' :( |
| 17:47.10 | Maloeran | I see, I just have no idea what s2 or the hell project exist for |
| 17:48.10 | brlcad | ``Erik: in all fairness, though, all of the differences WEREN'T just float/double fuzz -- the behavior hadn't been verified and a couple real issues were found (i.e. honest differences in behavior) |
| 17:48.25 | ``Erik | ok, the float vs double one really REALLY got under my skin |
| 17:48.29 | brlcad | that kind of stuff just can't happen for that code |
| 17:48.39 | Maloeran | You will find serious differences in behavior and results with rayforce too |
| 17:48.41 | ``Erik | because she (km) said that the problem 'disappeared' when she compiled adrt with double |
| 17:49.01 | brlcad | that was one case, there were other issues |
| 17:49.07 | ``Erik | but she HAD to to hunt down the cause for the difference! it was a whole .001 mm! |
| 17:49.15 | ``Erik | <-- strusfrated with some of their bs :) |
| 17:49.18 | brlcad | some were issues just being masked that were different behaviors |
| 17:49.56 | brlcad | Maloeran: to be expected to various degrees -- but they have to be explainable other than hand waving |
| 17:50.05 | ``Erik | obviously, the values wont' be the exact same, they cope with things differently... I'm just irked because in the grand scheme of things, it doesn't matter... |
| 17:50.14 | brlcad | at least if the differences are significant |
| 17:50.36 | ``Erik | I mean, it's all grotesque punting, the just cling to regression numbers because they don't understand the algorithms or reasoning |
| 17:50.41 | ``Erik | grar. |
| 17:50.50 | Maloeran | brlcad: Right, but a part of that is based on the ray cutting into segments, and the different intersection code with triangles ; you lose a bit of precision on the way |
| 17:51.03 | brlcad | he was done with adrt, at that time it really was a lot of hand waving going on, and they were understandably not satisfied imho |
| 17:51.08 | Maloeran | The differences should just be properly handled for them not to matter |
| 17:51.13 | ``Erik | and ch seems like the only one with his feet under him... km a tiny bit, but *sigh*... and they gave them that poor java coder hehehe |
| 17:51.48 | ``Erik | <-- not impressed with that crew :/ |
| 17:51.59 | ``Erik | also, I'm a strusfrated bitter person for anything up that alley :) |
| 17:52.22 | brlcad | there's plenty to complain about with respect to s2, but their demands of having to validate any change are a good one in general -- even if they do or don't understand what's going on |
| 17:52.47 | ``Erik | their stance of not ACCEPTING any change, whether or not it's valid or makes sense, isn't excusable |
| 17:53.07 | brlcad | Maloeran: most of the "significant" differences aren't just precision in itself, though perhaps provoked by precision |
| 17:53.12 | brlcad | edge conditions |
| 17:53.18 | brlcad | do you go left or right |
| 17:53.34 | Maloeran | Indeed, brlcad |
| 17:53.35 | brlcad | you might arbitrarily (albeit consistently "go right", per se) |
| 17:53.43 | ``Erik | like the air overlap swapping from the change jra made in the scenegraph |
| 17:54.16 | ``Erik | they refused a code improvement due to a 'broken' model... :) irritating |
| 17:54.26 | brlcad | ``Erik: true but then they never were shown a validation that could be accepted in that instance |
| 17:54.46 | ``Erik | the breakage in their test was pointed out |
| 17:55.11 | ``Erik | <-- likes regression testing and consistancy in results... but consistantly wrong results are still wrong :( |
| 17:55.32 | brlcad | dude, you're pulling out one instance.. there were like a half dozen different issues |
| 17:55.57 | ``Erik | *shrug* what can I say? I'm bitter and irate and on a tyrade :) |
| 17:56.16 | brlcad | a couple were breakage in their code, or at least bad assumptions, others were fuzz, a couple others were logic differences |
| 17:56.16 | ``Erik | or tirade |
| 17:56.18 | ``Erik | your choihce |
| 17:56.38 | ``Erik | <-- thinks they're too anal and lb is too lenient o.O |
| 17:57.06 | brlcad | the latter were the ones that mattered that would have otherwise gone unnoticed, even if they did amount to like a couple lines of code |
| 17:57.50 | ``Erik | (also, I have a low opinion of the theory and information that program is built on... stinky of hackiness to me) |
| 17:58.13 | brlcad | Maloeran: the overall "concept" isn't hard at all, especially from a code perspective -- it's an approximated physics simulation |
| 17:58.46 | brlcad | the code is also probably the least significant aspect of the purpose for it's existance |
| 17:59.00 | ``Erik | mal: http://www.bahdayton.com/SURVIAC/archive/surviac_bulletin/bulletin_9501/bull_9501.html#MUVES |
| 17:59.17 | Maloeran | For vulnerability analysis? |
| 17:59.23 | Maloeran | Ah, right |
| 17:59.28 | brlcad | for a variety of analysis purposes |
| 18:00.20 | Maloeran | Quote : "MUVES employs the latest software technologies both in design and implementation to optimize useability, [...]" Mmhmm :) |
| 18:00.31 | ``Erik | it's old code |
| 18:01.10 | brlcad | http://stinet.dtic.mil/oai/oai?&verb=getRecord&metadataPrefix=html&identifier=ADA245322 |
| 18:02.08 | brlcad | Maloeran: quoted from probably before you were born |
| 18:02.11 | ``Erik | huh, with a few authors I recognize, go figure |
| 18:02.14 | brlcad | when it was very much probably true |
| 18:02.46 | brlcad | it's a software implementation of a simulation that was actually carried out by hand for decades before it |
| 18:03.08 | brlcad | where it fails isn't really in terms of performance |
| 18:03.22 | brlcad | or utility -- it certainly does the job it was designed to do |
| 18:03.26 | ``Erik | a step int eh right direction... but the stepping stopped, and they got stuck :( |
| 18:03.46 | ``Erik | imho |
| 18:03.53 | Maloeran | Well, it's C and Unix, they got that right |
| 18:04.02 | brlcad | it fails in terms of usability and production polish/use -- the 80% of code in a project that has nothing to do with performance |
| 18:04.24 | ``Erik | ok, I'm done ranting and being a little bitch :) imma go slap my shoes on and head to bwi... catch ya'll later :) |
| 18:04.44 | Maloeran | Have fun! |
| 18:04.48 | brlcad | cheers |
| 18:05.49 | brlcad | much in the same way mged fails to provide an useful interface to new users -- yet most of the "geometry kernel" logic that is required by any solid modeling system is there underneath |
| 18:06.19 | brlcad | s2 users scream for a new interface, the usability is painful |
| 18:07.21 | Maloeran | I see, interesting. So performance isn't quite the main issue at this point |
| 18:07.52 | brlcad | it's one of many issues, but only the biggest from a production standpoint -- not from the "big picture" |
| 18:09.24 | brlcad | it's like saying I need to get from here to montreal, and I have my bike .. and even though I have a really good bike, it can still only go so fast |
| 18:09.36 | brlcad | so you're working on a fancy jet engine to propel the bike faster |
| 18:10.15 | brlcad | when in the big picture.. there are other problems (like others that need to get to montreal that don't know how to ride a bicycle, or are disabled, etc) |
| 18:10.55 | Maloeran | Good metaphor :). There's just the problem of focusing so much on the raytracer performance, if 95% of the processing time is spent in the "shaders" |
| 18:11.33 | brlcad | most problems can be simplified down to bicycles and cars :) |
| 18:12.42 | brlcad | 95% isn't representative |
| 18:13.45 | brlcad | it's very model and analysis dependent -- some are really highly ray-trace bound, others are stuck in shader-land |
| 18:15.08 | Maloeran | I guess so. Simple flat rendering "shaders" consume 40% of the processing time here, the actual ray-tracing is... cheap |
| 18:15.34 | brlcad | on average, I think it's pretty conservative estimate to say more than 50% .. more close to 80-90 probably on average |
| 18:16.25 | brlcad | yeah, that is one thing that rayforce definitely has over librt -- librt hooks into liboptical for shading, and that isn't nearly as optimized |
| 18:17.43 | brlcad | it was written to be run-time flexible, pluggable instead, which greatly impacts the design and performance |
| 18:18.32 | Maloeran | Not that much if rays are processed into large batches, but... yes, flexibility and processing of one ray at a time is just awful |
| 18:19.14 | brlcad | it would be interesting to see what rayforce's single-ray cost is post-prep |
| 18:19.31 | Maloeran | Horrible. It's not designed for that |
| 18:19.32 | brlcad | since that will be more in line with what would be expected from s2 |
| 18:19.48 | brlcad | horrible to you.. but still perhaps a vast boost overal |
| 18:20.03 | brlcad | perhaps not, just would be interesting |
| 18:20.06 | Maloeran | You have to set up a buffer, set the buffer environment variables to it builds the proper pipeline optimized for the settings, queue the job, have a thread acquire and run it... for a single ray? |
| 18:20.33 | Maloeran | It could be made faster, but it isn't really designed for that |
| 18:20.43 | brlcad | post-prep -- some of that could be construed as part of the prep |
| 18:22.04 | Maloeran | Really, it's like a C++ graphical library making a overly complex class "pixel", you don't want to process one ray at a time :) |
| 18:22.51 | brlcad | sounds like you're describing X ;) |
| 18:23.29 | Maloeran | Eheh, close enough yes |
| 18:25.01 | brlcad | it might be too much overhead, but it also might still be quite an improvement .. and is in line with how an analysis currently progresses |
| 18:25.41 | brlcad | i mean there are other considerations that become possible -- shooting in packets, faster optical/pictures, finer resolution at no additional expense |
| 18:26.14 | Maloeran | Do you really need to trace individual rays? |
| 18:26.31 | brlcad | the analysis codes, though, generally repeatedly ask the question "what objects are along this path" |
| 18:27.28 | brlcad | millions of times.. and sometimes the paths coincide, sometimes they do not at all -- more like solving the ray-tracing question for secondary rays only |
| 18:27.54 | Maloeran | Batches of secondary, incoherent rays are fine too |
| 18:28.16 | Maloeran | If single rays really are required, I guess I should add an "immediate mode" or so, without job/thread management, where the calling thread blocks and receives raw results |
| 18:30.34 | brlcad | this same issue came up with adrt, and of course it's even more significant for rayforce .. but what really makes sense as a first step is to drop it in as the implementation behind librt's ray api |
| 18:31.08 | brlcad | which means basically two function calls -- a scene prep routine, and a ray shooter routine |
| 18:31.18 | brlcad | the latter being called over and over |
| 18:31.58 | Maloeran | Would such calls be made from numerous threads? |
| 18:32.04 | brlcad | adrt is going to be tested in this fashion now that an initial integration is up and running |
| 18:32.45 | brlcad | yes, numerous threads and/or procs depending on the platform |
| 18:33.53 | Maloeran | I don't like the idea design-wise, but I guess it's the easiest first step |
| 18:34.26 | brlcad | for librt, those two actual calls are rt_prep_parallel() and rt_shootray() for most applications, including for s2 |
| 18:34.59 | Maloeran | Yes I saw, the rayforce API is a bit more complex |
| 18:35.40 | brlcad | the idea would be to detect in rt_prep_parallel if the model being prep'd is triangles, to prep using adrt and/or later using rayforce.. then during rt_shootray() calls, to invoke the other engine instead of librt for those rays |
| 18:35.47 | brlcad | at least as an initial pass |
| 18:36.53 | brlcad | that way, there are dozens of projects and applications that could get any performance benefits "for free" without requiring a rewrite (or even a recompile in some instances) |
| 18:37.01 | Maloeran | Does rt_shootray() block or it queues a callback? |
| 18:37.07 | brlcad | heh |
| 18:37.25 | brlcad | blocks |
| 18:37.42 | Maloeran | So there's no way to just fill up buffers to process rays properly |
| 18:38.05 | brlcad | thought about adding a non-blocking callback version, but that gets back to the same problem of rewriting all the user codes |
| 18:38.20 | brlcad | and if/when they're willing to go that far.. there may be better options |
| 18:38.54 | Maloeran | Using the rayforce native interface? :) It's generic, flexible, meant to be scalable |
| 18:39.31 | Maloeran | It was written with the possibility in mind that any other raytracer could easily plug itself behind the API |
| 18:39.34 | brlcad | apparently not flexible enough to have a single prep and single shotline inquiry interface? :) |
| 18:39.57 | Maloeran | Correct, that's just gross and inefficient :) |
| 18:40.18 | brlcad | and an excuse -- it's about as simple an interface as possible |
| 18:40.20 | Maloeran | It could be made, it just removes much of the acceleration potential that could go on behind the API |
| 18:40.44 | Maloeran | May it be efficient packet processing, SIMD processing, a hardware solution |
| 18:41.22 | Maloeran | The rayforce API can accomodate about any kind of underlying raytracing engine, hardware of FPGA included |
| 18:41.26 | Maloeran | or* FPGA |
| 18:41.30 | *** join/#brlcad docelic (n=docelic@212.91.114.94) | |
| 18:42.31 | brlcad | yeah, and those are certainly taking off like hotcakes.. :) |
| 18:42.54 | Maloeran | One day, perhaps, and that implies that the API will still be usable at that point :) |
| 18:42.58 | brlcad | that's great, but for the more immediate.. it really will probably boil down to just two or three levels of integration |
| 18:43.37 | Maloeran | I realize that but I must say I prefer properly designed APIs, seeing farther than the immediate needs |
| 18:43.53 | brlcad | first mimicking the api and seeing what boosts can be gained, then looking at what user-app changes would be required to get the biggest boost whether it be queuing rays or callbacks or what have you |
| 18:44.25 | brlcad | "immediate" in this context is the next two years or so |
| 18:45.24 | Maloeran | There's no way to do any decent SSE with single rays by the way, performance would be cut by a factor of 2-10 by design |
| 18:46.02 | brlcad | "properly designed APIs" can all mean drasticly different things -- librt's API is entirely proper given the purpose |
| 18:46.40 | Maloeran | It definitely wasn't designed to adopt different raytracing engines, interfaces or solutions |
| 18:46.41 | brlcad | depends on the user, the hardware, the purpose, etc |
| 18:47.05 | Maloeran | There's no way to use raytracing hardware with a blocking rt_shootray() for example |
| 18:47.38 | brlcad | sure, that was never a purpose of the library -- it was specifically written to be hardware agnostic |
| 18:48.13 | brlcad | hardware has changed a half dozen times since it was started... had the best "fad" of that day been used, librt would have been obsolete a decade ago |
| 18:48.56 | brlcad | and by obsolete, i mean written in a manner where it *could not* function on current hardware |
| 18:49.34 | brlcad | as it is, it still runs on just about anything, whether it's got acceleration hardware or not, special computation units etc |
| 18:49.37 | Maloeran | I don't mean it should be tailored to any specific hardware, I mean it should be both flexible and efficient, not minimalistic |
| 18:49.51 | Maloeran | OpenGL was designed in a flexible and decent manner, and it remained flexible and efficient for decades |
| 18:50.20 | brlcad | heh, you keep forgetting/ignoring the purpose though? |
| 18:50.39 | brlcad | for opengl's purpose, it was flexible and "decent" as you call it, but entirely useless for other domains |
| 18:50.49 | Maloeran | Well, the librt minimalistic interface causes problems today |
| 18:52.28 | brlcad | technically only the rt_shootray() interface has that limitation |
| 18:52.37 | brlcad | librt doesn't boil down to just those two calls |
| 18:53.01 | brlcad | they are just the most prevalently used, *because* they are so simple to use |
| 18:53.13 | brlcad | there are routines for shooting bundles of rays in the library |
| 18:53.21 | brlcad | nobody uses them |
| 18:53.22 | Maloeran | The problem isn't with librt really, but with the interface ; the interface that all the software now uses |
| 18:53.27 | Maloeran | Oh :) |
| 18:56.19 | Maloeran | I guess there wasn't much to gain with bundles of rays with librt |
| 18:56.57 | brlcad | it gets back to what I started off by saying -- you can't just suddenly change an API out from under dozens/hundreds of projects when you have faithful users without risking loosing your users -- even if the benefits "seem" sufficient |
| 18:57.12 | brlcad | actually, there was a lot to be gained -- that's why it was implemented |
| 18:57.39 | brlcad | getting performance boosts by bundling data accesses together is by far nothing new -- heck cray had a monopoly on that two decades ago |
| 18:59.16 | Maloeran | And people haven't updated the software to use the more efficient calls, I see |
| 19:00.19 | brlcad | not in the least |
| 19:01.00 | brlcad | actually writing and even using production-use software is usually not the biggest business expense |
| 19:01.40 | brlcad | managing that software, training users, documenting everything, managing the workflow process -- that all takes considerably more time |
| 19:03.13 | brlcad | so while there's an interface that is faster -- the investment is already complete, someone will have to take several weeks to review the new interface, integrate/code to it, validate it, test it, document the change, share that knowledge with others on the team(s) |
| 19:04.36 | Maloeran | So a programmer can't just switch the code to the better interface on an evening? :) Such inefficiency |
| 19:04.37 | brlcad | so the motivation to make the change, one that has NOT been validated in particular, is a risk and the benefit generally has to be distinctly clear and outweigh the other costs involved in making the change |
| 19:05.00 | brlcad | of course they can't |
| 19:05.27 | brlcad | well they can to the code, but not to the application that is in production use |
| 19:05.53 | brlcad | someone(tm) has to make sure it actually works .. and what happens when there's a problem, when someone does make a mistake? |
| 19:06.12 | brlcad | and mistakes DO happen.. they happen a damn lot, especially with programmers |
| 19:07.06 | Maloeran | The coding process sounds awfully slow and restricted in such a controlled environment |
| 19:08.41 | brlcad | in some instances it is, some it isn't.. depends on the impact and purpose |
| 19:09.08 | brlcad | shotline analysis impacts lives, people do live and die by the results |
| 19:10.15 | brlcad | that's why just saying "oh yeah, it's faster" is a useless statement when there is a difference in a given case that can't be exactly explained |
| 19:10.17 | Maloeran | Right, that isn't some software you can send patches to users later on |
| 19:10.58 | brlcad | the difference between a bug and floating point fuzz, for example, could be just one character .. and both giving the same result 99.99% of the time |
| 19:11.58 | brlcad | due diligence requires getting down to the actual science, explaining the difference and verifying that it's not a bug for example or not a difference to worry about is paramount |
| 19:13.01 | brlcad | most programmers are incredibly lazy, hand-waving excuses are usually very "bad" even if the "gut feeling" is sane |
| 19:14.39 | Maloeran | Well, I can already say that you'll find major differences between rayforce and adrt results. Just between two different graph builds, results differ |
| 19:15.07 | brlcad | yep, to be expected |
| 19:16.06 | brlcad | whether the results are significant depends on a lot of factors, and will be part of the future integration/validation part |
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| 20:42.59 | Maloeran | Strange, I'm not finding any header for GCC's __builtin_bswap32 and __builtin_bswap64, to avoid implicit declarations |
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| 18:06.24 | cadguy | Anyone remember how to get GCC to dump defined symbols? |
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| 18:33.23 | Maloeran | All symbols for compilation? Or perhaps nm would do? |
| 18:33.42 | cadguy | All symbols that are defined. |
| 18:35.06 | Maloeran | Within any scope, including static functions and local variables? nm would print all exported, linked, etc. symbols |
| 18:35.50 | cadguy | Ah, I'm looking for macro definitions. Eg: __i686__ etc. |
| 18:36.23 | Maloeran | Oh that. gcc -E -dM - < /dev/null |
| 18:38.17 | cadguy | thx. Can never remember that when I need it. *sigh* |
| 18:38.38 | Maloeran | Eheh, neither do I, it's noted in a text file |
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| 01:51.12 | Chantal | Does anyone know how to use AutoCAD? I need to turn a couple of lines into a polyline, ie the opposite of explode |
| 01:54.09 | brlcad | Chantal: this channel is for BRL-CAD, not AutoCAD ;) |
| 01:54.40 | Chantal | I know :( I can't find an autocad channel |
| 01:54.49 | Chantal | bye |
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| 01:55.08 | brlcad | ~google opposite of explode autocad |
| 01:55.32 | brlcad | first result.. "create a block" |
| 01:55.39 | brlcad | ~stfw |
| 01:55.43 | ibot | i guess stfw is Search The F*cking Web. See http://justf*ckinggoogleit.com/ |
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| 04:26.03 | IriX64 | works ... cheerzzzzz |
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| 05:12.38 | CIA-5 | BRL-CAD: 03lbutler * 10brlcad/include/ (bu.h machine.h raytrace.h): |
| 05:12.39 | CIA-5 | BRL-CAD: raytrace and bu got comment updates |
| 05:12.39 | CIA-5 | BRL-CAD: machine.h now supports dual cpu's on Intel based Mac machines |
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| 16:29.39 | dtidrow | http://home.tiscali.nl/annejan/swf/timeline.swf - 'slide rule' clock :-) |
| 16:30.35 | clock_ | that's funny :) |
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| 17:02.39 | brlcad | nifty |
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| 19:39.27 | IriX64 | thanks for letting me in :) |
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